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\"start\": 103.631, \"end\": 103.651, \"score\": 0.719}]}, {\"start\": 104.81, \"end\": 132.569, \"text\": \"更多這個損害那漂到外海漂到其他地方剛剛大家講的說會對環境的有一些很大的影響對環境可能有一些毒這個有毒的這個重金屬也好可能對整個生態會有很大的影響那我想請教部長針對你的專業你覺得未來在海面上的這些光電或即將要設置的這些光電暗場\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 104.81, \"end\": 105.551, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 105.551, \"end\": 107.172, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 107.172, \"end\": 107.472, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 107.472, \"end\": 107.852, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"漂\", \"start\": 107.852, \"end\": 108.172, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 108.172, \"end\": 108.412, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 108.412, \"end\": 108.633, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"海\", \"start\": 108.633, \"end\": 108.873, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"漂\", \"start\": 108.873, \"end\": 109.073, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 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792.324, \"end\": 792.464, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 792.464, \"end\": 792.585, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 792.585, \"end\": 792.605, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,865 --> 00:00:08,067\n謝謝主席我們先請部長黃委員好部長好從上禮拜就是這個\n\n2\n00:00:18,708 --> 00:00:36,281\n颱風過境之後那很多人在關心就像我們彰化地區沿海地區這個海面上有一些浮動的光電板那其實我在之前我也非常關心就是說這些光電板如果像這一次\n\n3\n00:00:36,901 --> 00:01:06,037\n一遇到颱風那它可能這個定毛的這個部分如果斷裂之後它可能會變成一個海漂海漂垃圾可能就漂到其他地方了不一定是在原本這個地方也許漂到這個外海或者是澎湖其他地方都有可能那我今天也聽到很多委員對這個也非常的關心那我希望就是說未來針對這個海面上的這些光電板\n\n4\n00:01:06,357 --> 00:01:22,257\n或者是即將要新設的這些光電我覺得應該要更嚴格因為像這一次的颱風它是從西部上來那也許是第一次碰到這麼大的一個颱風那它的風速最強的是到17級\n\n5\n00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:43,651\n我不知道說這邊海面上我只有針對我彰化這邊海面上的這些光電板它可以承受到17級的陣風嗎那如果沒辦法的話未來再碰到一次的這樣子這麼大的一個颱風從西部上來那也許會造成更大的這些光電板\n\n6\n00:01:44,810 --> 00:02:12,569\n更多這個損害那漂到外海漂到其他地方剛剛大家講的說會對環境的有一些很大的影響對環境可能有一些毒這個有毒的這個重金屬也好可能對整個生態會有很大的影響那我想請教部長針對你的專業你覺得未來在海面上的這些光電或即將要設置的這些光電暗場\n\n7\n00:02:14,850 --> 00:02:31,445\n你是不是認為也應該要再加鹽包委員因為像這次雖然有17級的強振風可是我們的離岸風電是沒有問題的等於是發的電還蠻多的但是太陽光電據我了解其實從來沒有這樣好好的遇過所以\n\n8\n00:02:32,285 --> 00:02:51,442\n未來我相信我們會跟那個能源署再來討論說是不是這個評估上面或模擬上面因為海上浮動的這個光電畢竟現在還在測試那未來應該因應這個未來極端氣候的條件之下勢必要調整所以我以為你的意見我們可以跟能源署來討論\n\n9\n00:02:54,024 --> 00:03:16,936\n我是認為就是說真的要在加嚴其實有時候我在彰化地區沿海這樣走就走那個西邊快速道路那你就可以很清楚的看到這個海岸邊就是看到就是一片的那個浮動式的那個光電板那其實我覺得整個對海岸的景觀是一個\n\n10\n00:03:18,538 --> 00:03:35,377\n就會覺得說跟以前我們的是完全不太一樣是完全不一樣那又看到這一次的颱風造成這個光電可能這個錨斷了之後飄到其他的地方其實我覺得說對於這個我們應該要再好好的去做一個檢討因為\n\n11\n00:03:37,459 --> 00:03:51,388\n你看這一次的風這麼大雨這麼大那確實對整個環境會有很大很大的影響我們不能再以以前的這樣的一個環評的這個機制來未來如果要再新設的話\n\n12\n00:03:52,829 --> 00:04:07,938\n我覺得應該要再加嚴所以我們請環境部跟能源這個經濟部能源局這邊應該要再好好的去檢討另外我想請教就是說除了這個海岸的這種浮動式的\n\n13\n00:04:09,579 --> 00:04:14,962\n光電那還有一種是屋頂型的我認為就是說因為屋頂型的這些這個光電我覺得應該是可以好好的去利用因為這一次的這個颱風其實針對這種屋頂型的好像\n\n14\n00:04:24,808 --> 00:04:43,540\n造成的這個損害好像沒有那麼大所以我覺得說與其你們一直在推可能就是說岸上或者制洪池或者是餘溫上面的這種光電那還不如就是說我們好好的去推動這種屋頂型的這種光電因為它原本就是有固定的這個\n\n15\n00:04:45,321 --> 00:05:10,892\n固定物在那邊就是房子的上面我覺得它原本就有這樣子的一個固定物在那邊那你在這個屋頂上面再加一個光電板我覺得那個應該大家也可以接受而且它的這個整個環境的景觀也不會有多大的這個改變而且那個房子它就是固定的你只要把它鎖緊應該也造成的這個颱風造成的這個損害應該也不會那麼大所以我覺得說\n\n16\n00:05:12,253 --> 00:05:30,723\n未來海上其實海上這個光電其實我不太贊成因為畢竟它會造成整個生態的影響雖然有經過環境影響評估沒有這個這一次都沒有沒有實驗型的都沒有所以你看喔它整個浮板\n\n17\n00:05:31,783 --> 00:05:56,561\n這個海水來它浮起來那原本它在那個這個潮間帶的這些生物也許會因為退潮之後它就黏在這個光電板就黏在這個海灘上面那會有一些生物可能就因為這樣可能沒辦法存活啊所以我覺得這個未來應該要再好好去思考加鹽這個是我認為應該要這樣那屋頂型的我覺得你們應該可以去好好的去推動\n\n18\n00:05:58,103 --> 00:06:21,350\n好謝謝委員指導我們現在施所的方向確實如委員所指導的第一個屋頂型的部分他在裝置之前他有經過結果安全的檢查而我們這次丹納斯颱風到現場去看很多有設置屋頂型的這個部分其實他的狀況都相對的安全甚至有損害也相對的輕微那目前我們統計的33個案場裡面只有3個只有9個\n\n19\n00:06:26,132 --> 00:06:46,406\n是非常小的這個輕微的部分那至於屋頂型它裝置的依照目前進食技術規則大概是12到14級風那我們在現在也預告了我們希望對於所謂的屋頂型的這個裝置它的耐風的程度要增加這是回答有關於屋頂型的部分\n\n20\n00:06:47,126 --> 00:07:16,386\n除此之外的話剛剛有提到離岸型的這個事實上全世界各國在做多元綠能的推展的時候他有很多的創新的想法那這個所謂的離岸型的部分是一個複合性的一個風場的一個概念那個概念是說他在這個比如說在風場底下他可能有養殖或是有其他的熱需要在可以耐當地的這個風浪的情況可以增加綠能的使用\n\n21\n00:07:16,866 --> 00:07:40,215\n那這一次所謂的創新的這個科技的研究的計畫它是一個科技的研究計畫就是看看這些在台灣內陸裡面可以用的水面型然後到海浪上面的話它必須要結構做哪一些的這個部分的一個補強那當然不幸的是這一次我們教育120年來第一次從\n\n22\n00:07:43,736 --> 00:08:02,561\n布袋地區登陸當然我們也知道民國75年的時候委員颱風也有重創我們的西部所以我們對於未來全國面對極端的氣候不管是在我們的綠能或是在關鍵基礎設施或是在我們的社區怎麼樣增強韌性的部分\n\n23\n00:08:03,621 --> 00:08:24,192\n我們經濟部內部已經開過非常多次的會議舉例而言我們這次發洩說很多地方電線桿因為倒塌了所以電網的部分沒有辦法來通電如果是我們可以有一些分散式的一個電網然後可以增加這個韌性甚至搭配除能設施我們\n\n24\n00:08:26,733 --> 00:08:46,905\n但那是颱風之後能源署也調印了非常多的這個發電機跟儲冷的設備設備到社區關懷中心或是餘溫來供當地的使用這個是我們未來提升韌性的思索方向以上好那我還是認為就是說海面上的這種光電板我覺得應該要去好好去做一個檢討啦\n\n25\n00:08:47,765 --> 00:08:55,032\n到底台灣適不適合這樣去做另外那個部長你可以先回我問一下次長因為這一次的這個颱風過後彰化颱風當天是沒有造成什麼大的損害那隔天的話雨下的\n\n26\n00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:17,927\n真的是超級多啦非常大因為食慾量達到150毫米台北市的耐災的程度是食慾量78毫米而且它是在兩個小時裡面突然間下下來的是啊當天那個水真的像是用到的\n\n27\n00:09:18,507 --> 00:09:39,666\n那彰化有很多地方都淹水那我想請教就是說次長你在當水利署署長的時候當年我們前山基礎建設有一個八年八百億的那個治水計畫那應該有一部分也有發揮它的功能啦那我想請教就是說因為這一次像彰化地區有很多這個排水\n\n28\n00:09:40,306 --> 00:10:03,435\n排水系統可能還要再做一個檢討那低窪的地區可能也要這個原本的排水可能要再加大或加深那我想請教這個次長現在我們經濟部這邊或者是整個行政院這邊有沒有針對因為颱風這次颱風很多淹水的地方那有沒有再針對就是說一淹水地區要有一個治水計畫\n\n29\n00:10:05,002 --> 00:10:21,562\n從民國96年開始政府集中資源來協助地方政府辦理區域的排水的改善包括前瞻的計畫我們發現說成效確實展現出來以彰化鹿港為例剛剛說的那一場的大雨我們發現淹水的時間越來越少\n\n30\n00:10:24,985 --> 00:10:49,677\n淹水的面積越來越少兩三個小時就淹起來了院長也指示說我們做系統性的治理用三大的原則提高保護標準降低淹水的時間降低淹水的面積那目前經濟部已經擬定了計畫呈報到行政院去我們希望說比如說像鹿港它有一些抽水站它是20年前設的\n\n31\n00:10:50,737 --> 00:11:04,092\n那這些抽水站必須要改善那如何來提高保護的那個能力就是在我們的河道的下游若是有一個比較高的保護能力的這個抽水站的話他的退水的時間會更快\n\n32\n00:11:05,934 --> 00:11:28,892\n我們希望就是說中央來協助地方因為確實這個雨下得又大又急在兩三個小時之內就整個都淹起來而且淹到膝蓋以上所以我們希望就是說中央跟地方一起合作讓一些易淹水地區或是比較低瓦地區不論是排水整個排水系統可能要再次做個檢討\n\n33\n00:11:29,913 --> 00:11:45,195\n那有的可能需要真的需要那個抽水抽水可能那個功能可能要再加強因為真的那個時間確實可能要在一兩個小時內趕快啟動要不然真的是還蠻慘的\n\n34\n00:11:47,000 --> 00:12:07,876\n跟委員說明我們生活的彰化地區是全國第一個實施靜流分攤的也是在我們鹿港那為什麼會在鹿港實施這個計畫是因為我們透過土城的套點我們發現說在鹿港的老街它是一個比較相對低窪的地方那無論工程的設施在如何的做它可能要花大筆的錢\n\n35\n00:12:08,957 --> 00:12:31,182\n如果是可以藉由我們已經有選定大概5處的地方公有的這個土地那它比如說操場下面可以當制洪池然後有一些的公園也可以做制洪的這個設備那未來這些的設施如果完成了之後我們這個耐震的程度就會提升那當然我們也需要社區然後大家一起來努力\n\n36\n00:12:31,582 --> 00:12:55,015\n是好那我們希望就是說中央這邊真的預算要趕快就是針對那個治水的預算如果可以編足的話未來可以減少這樣子淹水的一個狀況也許一年淹個15次那因為有這樣的一個治水計畫可以減少個10次不然真的昨天你有看到那個天后宮的主委有特別提到一年淹15次\n\n37\n00:12:56,596 --> 00:13:12,605\n真的他不想再忍了所以我希望就是說中央跟地方我們一起合作然後中央來協助地方廣設制洪池或者是這個淹水地區的排水系統或是抽水站讓地方不要受淹水之苦啦好謝謝委員指導好謝謝好謝謝黃委員謝謝次長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6865\t8067\t謝謝主席 我們先請部長黃委員好 部長好 從上禮拜就是這個\n18708\t36281\t颱風過境之後那很多人在關心就像我們彰化地區沿海地區這個海面上有一些浮動的光電板那其實我在之前我也非常關心就是說這些光電板如果像這一次\n36901\t66037\t一遇到颱風那它可能這個定毛的這個部分如果斷裂之後它可能會變成一個海漂海漂垃圾可能就漂到其他地方了不一定是在原本這個地方也許漂到這個外海或者是澎湖其他地方都有可能那我今天也聽到很多委員對這個也非常的關心那我希望就是說未來針對這個海面上的這些光電板\n66357\t82257\t或者是即將要新設的這些光電我覺得應該要更嚴格因為像這一次的颱風它是從西部上來那也許是第一次碰到這麼大的一個颱風那它的風速最強的是到17級\n85500\t103651\t我不知道說這邊海面上我只有針對我彰化這邊海面上的這些光電板它可以承受到17級的陣風嗎那如果沒辦法的話未來再碰到一次的這樣子這麼大的一個颱風從西部上來那也許會造成更大的這些光電板\n104810\t132569\t更多這個損害那漂到外海漂到其他地方剛剛大家講的說會對環境的有一些很大的影響對環境可能有一些毒這個有毒的這個重金屬也好可能對整個生態會有很大的影響那我想請教部長針對你的專業你覺得未來在海面上的這些光電或即將要設置的這些光電暗場\n134850\t151445\t你是不是認為也應該要再加鹽包委員因為像這次雖然有17級的強振風可是我們的離岸風電是沒有問題的等於是發的電還蠻多的但是太陽光電據我了解其實從來沒有這樣好好的遇過所以\n152285\t171442\t未來我相信我們會跟那個能源署再來討論說是不是這個評估上面或模擬上面因為海上浮動的這個光電畢竟現在還在測試那未來應該因應這個未來極端氣候的條件之下勢必要調整所以我以為你的意見我們可以跟能源署來討論\n174024\t196936\t我是認為就是說真的要在加嚴其實有時候我在彰化地區沿海這樣走就走那個西邊快速道路那你就可以很清楚的看到這個海岸邊就是看到就是一片的那個浮動式的那個光電板那其實我覺得整個對海岸的景觀是一個\n198538\t215377\t就會覺得說跟以前我們的是完全不太一樣是完全不一樣那又看到這一次的颱風造成這個光電可能這個錨斷了之後飄到其他的地方其實我覺得說對於這個我們應該要再好好的去做一個檢討因為\n217459\t231388\t你看這一次的風這麼大雨這麼大那確實對整個環境會有很大很大的影響我們不能再以以前的這樣的一個環評的這個機制來未來如果要再新設的話\n232829\t247938\t我覺得應該要再加嚴所以我們請環境部跟能源這個經濟部能源局這邊應該要再好好的去檢討另外我想請教就是說除了這個海岸的這種浮動式的\n249579\t254962\t光電那還有一種是屋頂型的我認為就是說因為屋頂型的這些這個光電我覺得應該是可以好好的去利用因為這一次的這個颱風其實針對這種屋頂型的好像\n264808\t283540\t造成的這個損害好像沒有那麼大所以我覺得說與其你們一直在推可能就是說岸上或者制洪池或者是餘溫上面的這種光電那還不如就是說我們好好的去推動這種屋頂型的這種光電因為它原本就是有固定的這個\n285321\t310892\t固定物在那邊就是房子的上面我覺得它原本就有這樣子的一個固定物在那邊那你在這個屋頂上面再加一個光電板我覺得那個應該大家也可以接受而且它的這個整個環境的景觀也不會有多大的這個改變而且那個房子它就是固定的你只要把它鎖緊應該也造成的這個颱風造成的這個損害應該也不會那麼大所以我覺得說\n312253\t330723\t未來海上 其實海上這個光電其實我不太贊成因為畢竟它會造成整個生態的影響雖然有經過環境影響評估沒有 這個這一次都沒有沒有 實驗型的都沒有所以你看喔 它整個浮板\n331783\t356561\t這個海水來它浮起來那原本它在那個這個潮間帶的這些生物也許會因為退潮之後它就黏在這個光電板就黏在這個海灘上面那會有一些生物可能就因為這樣可能沒辦法存活啊所以我覺得這個未來應該要再好好去思考加鹽這個是我認為應該要這樣那屋頂型的我覺得你們應該可以去好好的去推動\n358103\t381350\t好謝謝委員指導我們現在施所的方向確實如委員所指導的第一個屋頂型的部分他在裝置之前他有經過結果安全的檢查而我們這次丹納斯颱風到現場去看很多有設置屋頂型的這個部分其實他的狀況都相對的安全甚至有損害也相對的輕微那目前我們統計的33個案場裡面只有3個只有9個\n386132\t406406\t是非常小的這個輕微的部分那至於屋頂型它裝置的依照目前進食技術規則大概是12到14級風那我們在現在也預告了我們希望對於所謂的屋頂型的這個裝置它的耐風的程度要增加這是回答有關於屋頂型的部分\n407126\t436386\t除此之外的話剛剛有提到離岸型的這個事實上全世界各國在做多元綠能的推展的時候他有很多的創新的想法那這個所謂的離岸型的部分是一個複合性的一個風場的一個概念那個概念是說他在這個比如說在風場底下他可能有養殖或是有其他的熱需要在可以耐當地的這個風浪的情況可以增加綠能的使用\n436866\t460215\t那這一次所謂的創新的這個科技的研究的計畫它是一個科技的研究計畫就是看看這些在台灣內陸裡面可以用的水面型然後到海浪上面的話它必須要結構做哪一些的這個部分的一個補強那當然不幸的是這一次我們教育120年來第一次從\n463736\t482561\t布袋地區登陸當然我們也知道民國75年的時候委員颱風也有重創我們的西部所以我們對於未來全國面對極端的氣候不管是在我們的綠能或是在關鍵基礎設施或是在我們的社區怎麼樣增強韌性的部分\n483621\t504192\t我們經濟部內部已經開過非常多次的會議舉例而言我們這次發洩說很多地方電線桿因為倒塌了所以電網的部分沒有辦法來通電如果是我們可以有一些分散式的一個電網然後可以增加這個韌性甚至搭配除能設施我們\n506733\t526905\t但那是颱風之後能源署也調印了非常多的這個發電機跟儲冷的設備設備到社區關懷中心或是餘溫來供當地的使用這個是我們未來提升韌性的思索方向以上好那我還是認為就是說海面上的這種光電板我覺得應該要去好好去做一個檢討啦\n527765\t535032\t到底台灣適不適合這樣去做另外那個部長你可以先回我問一下次長因為這一次的這個颱風過後彰化颱風當天是沒有造成什麼大的損害那隔天的話雨下的\n543320\t557927\t真的是超級多啦非常大 因為食慾量達到150毫米台北市的耐災的程度是食慾量78毫米而且它是在兩個小時裡面突然間下下來的是啊 當天那個水真的像是用到的\n558507\t579666\t那彰化有很多地方都淹水那我想請教就是說次長你在當水利署署長的時候當年我們前山基礎建設有一個八年八百億的那個治水計畫那應該有一部分也有發揮它的功能啦那我想請教就是說因為這一次像彰化地區有很多這個排水\n580306\t603435\t排水系統可能還要再做一個檢討那低窪的地區可能也要這個原本的排水可能要再加大或加深那我想請教這個次長現在我們經濟部這邊或者是整個行政院這邊有沒有針對因為颱風這次颱風很多淹水的地方那有沒有再針對就是說一淹水地區要有一個治水計畫\n605002\t621562\t從民國96年開始政府集中資源來協助地方政府辦理區域的排水的改善包括前瞻的計畫我們發現說成效確實展現出來以彰化鹿港為例剛剛說的那一場的大雨我們發現淹水的時間越來越少\n624985\t649677\t淹水的面積越來越少兩三個小時就淹起來了院長也指示說我們做系統性的治理用三大的原則提高保護標準降低淹水的時間降低淹水的面積那目前經濟部已經擬定了計畫呈報到行政院去我們希望說比如說像鹿港它有一些抽水站它是20年前設的\n650737\t664092\t那這些抽水站必須要改善那如何來提高保護的那個能力就是在我們的河道的下游若是有一個比較高的保護能力的這個抽水站的話他的退水的時間會更快\n665934\t688892\t我們希望就是說中央來協助地方因為確實這個雨下得又大又急在兩三個小時之內就整個都淹起來而且淹到膝蓋以上所以我們希望就是說中央跟地方一起合作讓一些易淹水地區或是比較低瓦地區不論是排水整個排水系統可能要再次做個檢討\n689913\t705195\t那有的可能需要真的需要那個抽水抽水可能那個功能可能要再加強因為真的那個時間確實可能要在一兩個小時內趕快啟動要不然真的是還蠻慘的\n707000\t727876\t跟委員說明我們生活的彰化地區是全國第一個實施靜流分攤的也是在我們鹿港那為什麼會在鹿港實施這個計畫是因為我們透過土城的套點我們發現說在鹿港的老街它是一個比較相對低窪的地方那無論工程的設施在如何的做它可能要花大筆的錢\n728957\t751182\t如果是可以藉由我們已經有選定大概5處的地方公有的這個土地那它比如說操場下面可以當制洪池然後有一些的公園也可以做制洪的這個設備那未來這些的設施如果完成了之後我們這個耐震的程度就會提升那當然我們也需要社區然後大家一起來努力\n751582\t775015\t是好那我們希望就是說中央這邊真的預算要趕快就是針對那個治水的預算如果可以編足的話未來可以減少這樣子淹水的一個狀況也許一年淹個15次那因為有這樣的一個治水計畫可以減少個10次不然真的昨天你有看到那個天后宮的主委有特別提到一年淹15次\n776596\t792605\t真的他不想再忍了所以我希望就是說中央跟地方我們一起合作然後中央來協助地方廣設制洪池或者是這個淹水地區的排水系統或是抽水站讓地方不要受淹水之苦啦好 謝謝委員指導好 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝次長\n","txt":"謝謝主席 我們先請部長黃委員好 部長好 從上禮拜就是這個\n颱風過境之後那很多人在關心就像我們彰化地區沿海地區這個海面上有一些浮動的光電板那其實我在之前我也非常關心就是說這些光電板如果像這一次\n一遇到颱風那它可能這個定毛的這個部分如果斷裂之後它可能會變成一個海漂海漂垃圾可能就漂到其他地方了不一定是在原本這個地方也許漂到這個外海或者是澎湖其他地方都有可能那我今天也聽到很多委員對這個也非常的關心那我希望就是說未來針對這個海面上的這些光電板\n或者是即將要新設的這些光電我覺得應該要更嚴格因為像這一次的颱風它是從西部上來那也許是第一次碰到這麼大的一個颱風那它的風速最強的是到17級\n我不知道說這邊海面上我只有針對我彰化這邊海面上的這些光電板它可以承受到17級的陣風嗎那如果沒辦法的話未來再碰到一次的這樣子這麼大的一個颱風從西部上來那也許會造成更大的這些光電板\n更多這個損害那漂到外海漂到其他地方剛剛大家講的說會對環境的有一些很大的影響對環境可能有一些毒這個有毒的這個重金屬也好可能對整個生態會有很大的影響那我想請教部長針對你的專業你覺得未來在海面上的這些光電或即將要設置的這些光電暗場\n你是不是認為也應該要再加鹽包委員因為像這次雖然有17級的強振風可是我們的離岸風電是沒有問題的等於是發的電還蠻多的但是太陽光電據我了解其實從來沒有這樣好好的遇過所以\n未來我相信我們會跟那個能源署再來討論說是不是這個評估上面或模擬上面因為海上浮動的這個光電畢竟現在還在測試那未來應該因應這個未來極端氣候的條件之下勢必要調整所以我以為你的意見我們可以跟能源署來討論\n我是認為就是說真的要在加嚴其實有時候我在彰化地區沿海這樣走就走那個西邊快速道路那你就可以很清楚的看到這個海岸邊就是看到就是一片的那個浮動式的那個光電板那其實我覺得整個對海岸的景觀是一個\n就會覺得說跟以前我們的是完全不太一樣是完全不一樣那又看到這一次的颱風造成這個光電可能這個錨斷了之後飄到其他的地方其實我覺得說對於這個我們應該要再好好的去做一個檢討因為\n你看這一次的風這麼大雨這麼大那確實對整個環境會有很大很大的影響我們不能再以以前的這樣的一個環評的這個機制來未來如果要再新設的話\n我覺得應該要再加嚴所以我們請環境部跟能源這個經濟部能源局這邊應該要再好好的去檢討另外我想請教就是說除了這個海岸的這種浮動式的\n光電那還有一種是屋頂型的我認為就是說因為屋頂型的這些這個光電我覺得應該是可以好好的去利用因為這一次的這個颱風其實針對這種屋頂型的好像\n造成的這個損害好像沒有那麼大所以我覺得說與其你們一直在推可能就是說岸上或者制洪池或者是餘溫上面的這種光電那還不如就是說我們好好的去推動這種屋頂型的這種光電因為它原本就是有固定的這個\n固定物在那邊就是房子的上面我覺得它原本就有這樣子的一個固定物在那邊那你在這個屋頂上面再加一個光電板我覺得那個應該大家也可以接受而且它的這個整個環境的景觀也不會有多大的這個改變而且那個房子它就是固定的你只要把它鎖緊應該也造成的這個颱風造成的這個損害應該也不會那麼大所以我覺得說\n未來海上 其實海上這個光電其實我不太贊成因為畢竟它會造成整個生態的影響雖然有經過環境影響評估沒有 這個這一次都沒有沒有 實驗型的都沒有所以你看喔 它整個浮板\n這個海水來它浮起來那原本它在那個這個潮間帶的這些生物也許會因為退潮之後它就黏在這個光電板就黏在這個海灘上面那會有一些生物可能就因為這樣可能沒辦法存活啊所以我覺得這個未來應該要再好好去思考加鹽這個是我認為應該要這樣那屋頂型的我覺得你們應該可以去好好的去推動\n好謝謝委員指導我們現在施所的方向確實如委員所指導的第一個屋頂型的部分他在裝置之前他有經過結果安全的檢查而我們這次丹納斯颱風到現場去看很多有設置屋頂型的這個部分其實他的狀況都相對的安全甚至有損害也相對的輕微那目前我們統計的33個案場裡面只有3個只有9個\n是非常小的這個輕微的部分那至於屋頂型它裝置的依照目前進食技術規則大概是12到14級風那我們在現在也預告了我們希望對於所謂的屋頂型的這個裝置它的耐風的程度要增加這是回答有關於屋頂型的部分\n除此之外的話剛剛有提到離岸型的這個事實上全世界各國在做多元綠能的推展的時候他有很多的創新的想法那這個所謂的離岸型的部分是一個複合性的一個風場的一個概念那個概念是說他在這個比如說在風場底下他可能有養殖或是有其他的熱需要在可以耐當地的這個風浪的情況可以增加綠能的使用\n那這一次所謂的創新的這個科技的研究的計畫它是一個科技的研究計畫就是看看這些在台灣內陸裡面可以用的水面型然後到海浪上面的話它必須要結構做哪一些的這個部分的一個補強那當然不幸的是這一次我們教育120年來第一次從\n布袋地區登陸當然我們也知道民國75年的時候委員颱風也有重創我們的西部所以我們對於未來全國面對極端的氣候不管是在我們的綠能或是在關鍵基礎設施或是在我們的社區怎麼樣增強韌性的部分\n我們經濟部內部已經開過非常多次的會議舉例而言我們這次發洩說很多地方電線桿因為倒塌了所以電網的部分沒有辦法來通電如果是我們可以有一些分散式的一個電網然後可以增加這個韌性甚至搭配除能設施我們\n但那是颱風之後能源署也調印了非常多的這個發電機跟儲冷的設備設備到社區關懷中心或是餘溫來供當地的使用這個是我們未來提升韌性的思索方向以上好那我還是認為就是說海面上的這種光電板我覺得應該要去好好去做一個檢討啦\n到底台灣適不適合這樣去做另外那個部長你可以先回我問一下次長因為這一次的這個颱風過後彰化颱風當天是沒有造成什麼大的損害那隔天的話雨下的\n真的是超級多啦非常大 因為食慾量達到150毫米台北市的耐災的程度是食慾量78毫米而且它是在兩個小時裡面突然間下下來的是啊 當天那個水真的像是用到的\n那彰化有很多地方都淹水那我想請教就是說次長你在當水利署署長的時候當年我們前山基礎建設有一個八年八百億的那個治水計畫那應該有一部分也有發揮它的功能啦那我想請教就是說因為這一次像彰化地區有很多這個排水\n排水系統可能還要再做一個檢討那低窪的地區可能也要這個原本的排水可能要再加大或加深那我想請教這個次長現在我們經濟部這邊或者是整個行政院這邊有沒有針對因為颱風這次颱風很多淹水的地方那有沒有再針對就是說一淹水地區要有一個治水計畫\n從民國96年開始政府集中資源來協助地方政府辦理區域的排水的改善包括前瞻的計畫我們發現說成效確實展現出來以彰化鹿港為例剛剛說的那一場的大雨我們發現淹水的時間越來越少\n淹水的面積越來越少兩三個小時就淹起來了院長也指示說我們做系統性的治理用三大的原則提高保護標準降低淹水的時間降低淹水的面積那目前經濟部已經擬定了計畫呈報到行政院去我們希望說比如說像鹿港它有一些抽水站它是20年前設的\n那這些抽水站必須要改善那如何來提高保護的那個能力就是在我們的河道的下游若是有一個比較高的保護能力的這個抽水站的話他的退水的時間會更快\n我們希望就是說中央來協助地方因為確實這個雨下得又大又急在兩三個小時之內就整個都淹起來而且淹到膝蓋以上所以我們希望就是說中央跟地方一起合作讓一些易淹水地區或是比較低瓦地區不論是排水整個排水系統可能要再次做個檢討\n那有的可能需要真的需要那個抽水抽水可能那個功能可能要再加強因為真的那個時間確實可能要在一兩個小時內趕快啟動要不然真的是還蠻慘的\n跟委員說明我們生活的彰化地區是全國第一個實施靜流分攤的也是在我們鹿港那為什麼會在鹿港實施這個計畫是因為我們透過土城的套點我們發現說在鹿港的老街它是一個比較相對低窪的地方那無論工程的設施在如何的做它可能要花大筆的錢\n如果是可以藉由我們已經有選定大概5處的地方公有的這個土地那它比如說操場下面可以當制洪池然後有一些的公園也可以做制洪的這個設備那未來這些的設施如果完成了之後我們這個耐震的程度就會提升那當然我們也需要社區然後大家一起來努力\n是好那我們希望就是說中央這邊真的預算要趕快就是針對那個治水的預算如果可以編足的話未來可以減少這樣子淹水的一個狀況也許一年淹個15次那因為有這樣的一個治水計畫可以減少個10次不然真的昨天你有看到那個天后宮的主委有特別提到一年淹15次\n真的他不想再忍了所以我希望就是說中央跟地方我們一起合作然後中央來協助地方廣設制洪池或者是這個淹水地區的排水系統或是抽水站讓地方不要受淹水之苦啦好 謝謝委員指導好 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝次長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.865 --> 00:08.067\n謝謝主席我們先請部長黃委員好部長好從上禮拜就是這個\n\n00:18.708 --> 00:36.281\n颱風過境之後那很多人在關心就像我們彰化地區沿海地區這個海面上有一些浮動的光電板那其實我在之前我也非常關心就是說這些光電板如果像這一次\n\n00:36.901 --> 01:06.037\n一遇到颱風那它可能這個定毛的這個部分如果斷裂之後它可能會變成一個海漂海漂垃圾可能就漂到其他地方了不一定是在原本這個地方也許漂到這個外海或者是澎湖其他地方都有可能那我今天也聽到很多委員對這個也非常的關心那我希望就是說未來針對這個海面上的這些光電板\n\n01:06.357 --> 01:22.257\n或者是即將要新設的這些光電我覺得應該要更嚴格因為像這一次的颱風它是從西部上來那也許是第一次碰到這麼大的一個颱風那它的風速最強的是到17級\n\n01:25.500 --> 01:43.651\n我不知道說這邊海面上我只有針對我彰化這邊海面上的這些光電板它可以承受到17級的陣風嗎那如果沒辦法的話未來再碰到一次的這樣子這麼大的一個颱風從西部上來那也許會造成更大的這些光電板\n\n01:44.810 --> 02:12.569\n更多這個損害那漂到外海漂到其他地方剛剛大家講的說會對環境的有一些很大的影響對環境可能有一些毒這個有毒的這個重金屬也好可能對整個生態會有很大的影響那我想請教部長針對你的專業你覺得未來在海面上的這些光電或即將要設置的這些光電暗場\n\n02:14.850 --> 02:31.445\n你是不是認為也應該要再加鹽包委員因為像這次雖然有17級的強振風可是我們的離岸風電是沒有問題的等於是發的電還蠻多的但是太陽光電據我了解其實從來沒有這樣好好的遇過所以\n\n02:32.285 --> 02:51.442\n未來我相信我們會跟那個能源署再來討論說是不是這個評估上面或模擬上面因為海上浮動的這個光電畢竟現在還在測試那未來應該因應這個未來極端氣候的條件之下勢必要調整所以我以為你的意見我們可以跟能源署來討論\n\n02:54.024 --> 03:16.936\n我是認為就是說真的要在加嚴其實有時候我在彰化地區沿海這樣走就走那個西邊快速道路那你就可以很清楚的看到這個海岸邊就是看到就是一片的那個浮動式的那個光電板那其實我覺得整個對海岸的景觀是一個\n\n03:18.538 --> 03:35.377\n就會覺得說跟以前我們的是完全不太一樣是完全不一樣那又看到這一次的颱風造成這個光電可能這個錨斷了之後飄到其他的地方其實我覺得說對於這個我們應該要再好好的去做一個檢討因為\n\n03:37.459 --> 03:51.388\n你看這一次的風這麼大雨這麼大那確實對整個環境會有很大很大的影響我們不能再以以前的這樣的一個環評的這個機制來未來如果要再新設的話\n\n03:52.829 --> 04:07.938\n我覺得應該要再加嚴所以我們請環境部跟能源這個經濟部能源局這邊應該要再好好的去檢討另外我想請教就是說除了這個海岸的這種浮動式的\n\n04:09.579 --> 04:14.962\n光電那還有一種是屋頂型的我認為就是說因為屋頂型的這些這個光電我覺得應該是可以好好的去利用因為這一次的這個颱風其實針對這種屋頂型的好像\n\n04:24.808 --> 04:43.540\n造成的這個損害好像沒有那麼大所以我覺得說與其你們一直在推可能就是說岸上或者制洪池或者是餘溫上面的這種光電那還不如就是說我們好好的去推動這種屋頂型的這種光電因為它原本就是有固定的這個\n\n04:45.321 --> 05:10.892\n固定物在那邊就是房子的上面我覺得它原本就有這樣子的一個固定物在那邊那你在這個屋頂上面再加一個光電板我覺得那個應該大家也可以接受而且它的這個整個環境的景觀也不會有多大的這個改變而且那個房子它就是固定的你只要把它鎖緊應該也造成的這個颱風造成的這個損害應該也不會那麼大所以我覺得說\n\n05:12.253 --> 05:30.723\n未來海上其實海上這個光電其實我不太贊成因為畢竟它會造成整個生態的影響雖然有經過環境影響評估沒有這個這一次都沒有沒有實驗型的都沒有所以你看喔它整個浮板\n\n05:31.783 --> 05:56.561\n這個海水來它浮起來那原本它在那個這個潮間帶的這些生物也許會因為退潮之後它就黏在這個光電板就黏在這個海灘上面那會有一些生物可能就因為這樣可能沒辦法存活啊所以我覺得這個未來應該要再好好去思考加鹽這個是我認為應該要這樣那屋頂型的我覺得你們應該可以去好好的去推動\n\n05:58.103 --> 06:21.350\n好謝謝委員指導我們現在施所的方向確實如委員所指導的第一個屋頂型的部分他在裝置之前他有經過結果安全的檢查而我們這次丹納斯颱風到現場去看很多有設置屋頂型的這個部分其實他的狀況都相對的安全甚至有損害也相對的輕微那目前我們統計的33個案場裡面只有3個只有9個\n\n06:26.132 --> 06:46.406\n是非常小的這個輕微的部分那至於屋頂型它裝置的依照目前進食技術規則大概是12到14級風那我們在現在也預告了我們希望對於所謂的屋頂型的這個裝置它的耐風的程度要增加這是回答有關於屋頂型的部分\n\n06:47.126 --> 07:16.386\n除此之外的話剛剛有提到離岸型的這個事實上全世界各國在做多元綠能的推展的時候他有很多的創新的想法那這個所謂的離岸型的部分是一個複合性的一個風場的一個概念那個概念是說他在這個比如說在風場底下他可能有養殖或是有其他的熱需要在可以耐當地的這個風浪的情況可以增加綠能的使用\n\n07:16.866 --> 07:40.215\n那這一次所謂的創新的這個科技的研究的計畫它是一個科技的研究計畫就是看看這些在台灣內陸裡面可以用的水面型然後到海浪上面的話它必須要結構做哪一些的這個部分的一個補強那當然不幸的是這一次我們教育120年來第一次從\n\n07:43.736 --> 08:02.561\n布袋地區登陸當然我們也知道民國75年的時候委員颱風也有重創我們的西部所以我們對於未來全國面對極端的氣候不管是在我們的綠能或是在關鍵基礎設施或是在我們的社區怎麼樣增強韌性的部分\n\n08:03.621 --> 08:24.192\n我們經濟部內部已經開過非常多次的會議舉例而言我們這次發洩說很多地方電線桿因為倒塌了所以電網的部分沒有辦法來通電如果是我們可以有一些分散式的一個電網然後可以增加這個韌性甚至搭配除能設施我們\n\n08:26.733 --> 08:46.905\n但那是颱風之後能源署也調印了非常多的這個發電機跟儲冷的設備設備到社區關懷中心或是餘溫來供當地的使用這個是我們未來提升韌性的思索方向以上好那我還是認為就是說海面上的這種光電板我覺得應該要去好好去做一個檢討啦\n\n08:47.765 --> 08:55.032\n到底台灣適不適合這樣去做另外那個部長你可以先回我問一下次長因為這一次的這個颱風過後彰化颱風當天是沒有造成什麼大的損害那隔天的話雨下的\n\n09:03.320 --> 09:17.927\n真的是超級多啦非常大因為食慾量達到150毫米台北市的耐災的程度是食慾量78毫米而且它是在兩個小時裡面突然間下下來的是啊當天那個水真的像是用到的\n\n09:18.507 --> 09:39.666\n那彰化有很多地方都淹水那我想請教就是說次長你在當水利署署長的時候當年我們前山基礎建設有一個八年八百億的那個治水計畫那應該有一部分也有發揮它的功能啦那我想請教就是說因為這一次像彰化地區有很多這個排水\n\n09:40.306 --> 10:03.435\n排水系統可能還要再做一個檢討那低窪的地區可能也要這個原本的排水可能要再加大或加深那我想請教這個次長現在我們經濟部這邊或者是整個行政院這邊有沒有針對因為颱風這次颱風很多淹水的地方那有沒有再針對就是說一淹水地區要有一個治水計畫\n\n10:05.002 --> 10:21.562\n從民國96年開始政府集中資源來協助地方政府辦理區域的排水的改善包括前瞻的計畫我們發現說成效確實展現出來以彰化鹿港為例剛剛說的那一場的大雨我們發現淹水的時間越來越少\n\n10:24.985 --> 10:49.677\n淹水的面積越來越少兩三個小時就淹起來了院長也指示說我們做系統性的治理用三大的原則提高保護標準降低淹水的時間降低淹水的面積那目前經濟部已經擬定了計畫呈報到行政院去我們希望說比如說像鹿港它有一些抽水站它是20年前設的\n\n10:50.737 --> 11:04.092\n那這些抽水站必須要改善那如何來提高保護的那個能力就是在我們的河道的下游若是有一個比較高的保護能力的這個抽水站的話他的退水的時間會更快\n\n11:05.934 --> 11:28.892\n我們希望就是說中央來協助地方因為確實這個雨下得又大又急在兩三個小時之內就整個都淹起來而且淹到膝蓋以上所以我們希望就是說中央跟地方一起合作讓一些易淹水地區或是比較低瓦地區不論是排水整個排水系統可能要再次做個檢討\n\n11:29.913 --> 11:45.195\n那有的可能需要真的需要那個抽水抽水可能那個功能可能要再加強因為真的那個時間確實可能要在一兩個小時內趕快啟動要不然真的是還蠻慘的\n\n11:47.000 --> 12:07.876\n跟委員說明我們生活的彰化地區是全國第一個實施靜流分攤的也是在我們鹿港那為什麼會在鹿港實施這個計畫是因為我們透過土城的套點我們發現說在鹿港的老街它是一個比較相對低窪的地方那無論工程的設施在如何的做它可能要花大筆的錢\n\n12:08.957 --> 12:31.182\n如果是可以藉由我們已經有選定大概5處的地方公有的這個土地那它比如說操場下面可以當制洪池然後有一些的公園也可以做制洪的這個設備那未來這些的設施如果完成了之後我們這個耐震的程度就會提升那當然我們也需要社區然後大家一起來努力\n\n12:31.582 --> 12:55.015\n是好那我們希望就是說中央這邊真的預算要趕快就是針對那個治水的預算如果可以編足的話未來可以減少這樣子淹水的一個狀況也許一年淹個15次那因為有這樣的一個治水計畫可以減少個10次不然真的昨天你有看到那個天后宮的主委有特別提到一年淹15次\n\n12:56.596 --> 13:12.605\n真的他不想再忍了所以我希望就是說中央跟地方我們一起合作然後中央來協助地方廣設制洪池或者是這個淹水地區的排水系統或是抽水站讓地方不要受淹水之苦啦好謝謝委員指導好謝謝好謝謝黃委員謝謝次長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.865,"end":8.067,"text":"謝謝主席 我們先請部長黃委員好 部長好 從上禮拜就是這個"},{"start":18.708,"end":36.281,"text":"颱風過境之後那很多人在關心就像我們彰化地區沿海地區這個海面上有一些浮動的光電板那其實我在之前我也非常關心就是說這些光電板如果像這一次"},{"start":36.901,"end":66.037,"text":"一遇到颱風那它可能這個定毛的這個部分如果斷裂之後它可能會變成一個海漂海漂垃圾可能就漂到其他地方了不一定是在原本這個地方也許漂到這個外海或者是澎湖其他地方都有可能那我今天也聽到很多委員對這個也非常的關心那我希望就是說未來針對這個海面上的這些光電板"},{"start":66.357,"end":82.257,"text":"或者是即將要新設的這些光電我覺得應該要更嚴格因為像這一次的颱風它是從西部上來那也許是第一次碰到這麼大的一個颱風那它的風速最強的是到17級"},{"start":85.5,"end":103.651,"text":"我不知道說這邊海面上我只有針對我彰化這邊海面上的這些光電板它可以承受到17級的陣風嗎那如果沒辦法的話未來再碰到一次的這樣子這麼大的一個颱風從西部上來那也許會造成更大的這些光電板"},{"start":104.81,"end":132.569,"text":"更多這個損害那漂到外海漂到其他地方剛剛大家講的說會對環境的有一些很大的影響對環境可能有一些毒這個有毒的這個重金屬也好可能對整個生態會有很大的影響那我想請教部長針對你的專業你覺得未來在海面上的這些光電或即將要設置的這些光電暗場"},{"start":134.85,"end":151.445,"text":"你是不是認為也應該要再加鹽包委員因為像這次雖然有17級的強振風可是我們的離岸風電是沒有問題的等於是發的電還蠻多的但是太陽光電據我了解其實從來沒有這樣好好的遇過所以"},{"start":152.285,"end":171.442,"text":"未來我相信我們會跟那個能源署再來討論說是不是這個評估上面或模擬上面因為海上浮動的這個光電畢竟現在還在測試那未來應該因應這個未來極端氣候的條件之下勢必要調整所以我以為你的意見我們可以跟能源署來討論"},{"start":174.024,"end":196.936,"text":"我是認為就是說真的要在加嚴其實有時候我在彰化地區沿海這樣走就走那個西邊快速道路那你就可以很清楚的看到這個海岸邊就是看到就是一片的那個浮動式的那個光電板那其實我覺得整個對海岸的景觀是一個"},{"start":198.538,"end":215.377,"text":"就會覺得說跟以前我們的是完全不太一樣是完全不一樣那又看到這一次的颱風造成這個光電可能這個錨斷了之後飄到其他的地方其實我覺得說對於這個我們應該要再好好的去做一個檢討因為"},{"start":217.459,"end":231.388,"text":"你看這一次的風這麼大雨這麼大那確實對整個環境會有很大很大的影響我們不能再以以前的這樣的一個環評的這個機制來未來如果要再新設的話"},{"start":232.829,"end":247.938,"text":"我覺得應該要再加嚴所以我們請環境部跟能源這個經濟部能源局這邊應該要再好好的去檢討另外我想請教就是說除了這個海岸的這種浮動式的"},{"start":249.579,"end":254.962,"text":"光電那還有一種是屋頂型的我認為就是說因為屋頂型的這些這個光電我覺得應該是可以好好的去利用因為這一次的這個颱風其實針對這種屋頂型的好像"},{"start":264.808,"end":283.54,"text":"造成的這個損害好像沒有那麼大所以我覺得說與其你們一直在推可能就是說岸上或者制洪池或者是餘溫上面的這種光電那還不如就是說我們好好的去推動這種屋頂型的這種光電因為它原本就是有固定的這個"},{"start":285.321,"end":310.892,"text":"固定物在那邊就是房子的上面我覺得它原本就有這樣子的一個固定物在那邊那你在這個屋頂上面再加一個光電板我覺得那個應該大家也可以接受而且它的這個整個環境的景觀也不會有多大的這個改變而且那個房子它就是固定的你只要把它鎖緊應該也造成的這個颱風造成的這個損害應該也不會那麼大所以我覺得說"},{"start":312.253,"end":330.723,"text":"未來海上 其實海上這個光電其實我不太贊成因為畢竟它會造成整個生態的影響雖然有經過環境影響評估沒有 這個這一次都沒有沒有 實驗型的都沒有所以你看喔 它整個浮板"},{"start":331.783,"end":356.561,"text":"這個海水來它浮起來那原本它在那個這個潮間帶的這些生物也許會因為退潮之後它就黏在這個光電板就黏在這個海灘上面那會有一些生物可能就因為這樣可能沒辦法存活啊所以我覺得這個未來應該要再好好去思考加鹽這個是我認為應該要這樣那屋頂型的我覺得你們應該可以去好好的去推動"},{"start":358.103,"end":381.35,"text":"好謝謝委員指導我們現在施所的方向確實如委員所指導的第一個屋頂型的部分他在裝置之前他有經過結果安全的檢查而我們這次丹納斯颱風到現場去看很多有設置屋頂型的這個部分其實他的狀況都相對的安全甚至有損害也相對的輕微那目前我們統計的33個案場裡面只有3個只有9個"},{"start":386.132,"end":406.406,"text":"是非常小的這個輕微的部分那至於屋頂型它裝置的依照目前進食技術規則大概是12到14級風那我們在現在也預告了我們希望對於所謂的屋頂型的這個裝置它的耐風的程度要增加這是回答有關於屋頂型的部分"},{"start":407.126,"end":436.386,"text":"除此之外的話剛剛有提到離岸型的這個事實上全世界各國在做多元綠能的推展的時候他有很多的創新的想法那這個所謂的離岸型的部分是一個複合性的一個風場的一個概念那個概念是說他在這個比如說在風場底下他可能有養殖或是有其他的熱需要在可以耐當地的這個風浪的情況可以增加綠能的使用"},{"start":436.866,"end":460.215,"text":"那這一次所謂的創新的這個科技的研究的計畫它是一個科技的研究計畫就是看看這些在台灣內陸裡面可以用的水面型然後到海浪上面的話它必須要結構做哪一些的這個部分的一個補強那當然不幸的是這一次我們教育120年來第一次從"},{"start":463.736,"end":482.561,"text":"布袋地區登陸當然我們也知道民國75年的時候委員颱風也有重創我們的西部所以我們對於未來全國面對極端的氣候不管是在我們的綠能或是在關鍵基礎設施或是在我們的社區怎麼樣增強韌性的部分"},{"start":483.621,"end":504.192,"text":"我們經濟部內部已經開過非常多次的會議舉例而言我們這次發洩說很多地方電線桿因為倒塌了所以電網的部分沒有辦法來通電如果是我們可以有一些分散式的一個電網然後可以增加這個韌性甚至搭配除能設施我們"},{"start":506.733,"end":526.905,"text":"但那是颱風之後能源署也調印了非常多的這個發電機跟儲冷的設備設備到社區關懷中心或是餘溫來供當地的使用這個是我們未來提升韌性的思索方向以上好那我還是認為就是說海面上的這種光電板我覺得應該要去好好去做一個檢討啦"},{"start":527.765,"end":535.032,"text":"到底台灣適不適合這樣去做另外那個部長你可以先回我問一下次長因為這一次的這個颱風過後彰化颱風當天是沒有造成什麼大的損害那隔天的話雨下的"},{"start":543.32,"end":557.927,"text":"真的是超級多啦非常大 因為食慾量達到150毫米台北市的耐災的程度是食慾量78毫米而且它是在兩個小時裡面突然間下下來的是啊 當天那個水真的像是用到的"},{"start":558.507,"end":579.666,"text":"那彰化有很多地方都淹水那我想請教就是說次長你在當水利署署長的時候當年我們前山基礎建設有一個八年八百億的那個治水計畫那應該有一部分也有發揮它的功能啦那我想請教就是說因為這一次像彰化地區有很多這個排水"},{"start":580.306,"end":603.435,"text":"排水系統可能還要再做一個檢討那低窪的地區可能也要這個原本的排水可能要再加大或加深那我想請教這個次長現在我們經濟部這邊或者是整個行政院這邊有沒有針對因為颱風這次颱風很多淹水的地方那有沒有再針對就是說一淹水地區要有一個治水計畫"},{"start":605.002,"end":621.562,"text":"從民國96年開始政府集中資源來協助地方政府辦理區域的排水的改善包括前瞻的計畫我們發現說成效確實展現出來以彰化鹿港為例剛剛說的那一場的大雨我們發現淹水的時間越來越少"},{"start":624.985,"end":649.677,"text":"淹水的面積越來越少兩三個小時就淹起來了院長也指示說我們做系統性的治理用三大的原則提高保護標準降低淹水的時間降低淹水的面積那目前經濟部已經擬定了計畫呈報到行政院去我們希望說比如說像鹿港它有一些抽水站它是20年前設的"},{"start":650.737,"end":664.092,"text":"那這些抽水站必須要改善那如何來提高保護的那個能力就是在我們的河道的下游若是有一個比較高的保護能力的這個抽水站的話他的退水的時間會更快"},{"start":665.934,"end":688.892,"text":"我們希望就是說中央來協助地方因為確實這個雨下得又大又急在兩三個小時之內就整個都淹起來而且淹到膝蓋以上所以我們希望就是說中央跟地方一起合作讓一些易淹水地區或是比較低瓦地區不論是排水整個排水系統可能要再次做個檢討"},{"start":689.913,"end":705.195,"text":"那有的可能需要真的需要那個抽水抽水可能那個功能可能要再加強因為真的那個時間確實可能要在一兩個小時內趕快啟動要不然真的是還蠻慘的"},{"start":707,"end":727.876,"text":"跟委員說明我們生活的彰化地區是全國第一個實施靜流分攤的也是在我們鹿港那為什麼會在鹿港實施這個計畫是因為我們透過土城的套點我們發現說在鹿港的老街它是一個比較相對低窪的地方那無論工程的設施在如何的做它可能要花大筆的錢"},{"start":728.957,"end":751.182,"text":"如果是可以藉由我們已經有選定大概5處的地方公有的這個土地那它比如說操場下面可以當制洪池然後有一些的公園也可以做制洪的這個設備那未來這些的設施如果完成了之後我們這個耐震的程度就會提升那當然我們也需要社區然後大家一起來努力"},{"start":751.582,"end":775.015,"text":"是好那我們希望就是說中央這邊真的預算要趕快就是針對那個治水的預算如果可以編足的話未來可以減少這樣子淹水的一個狀況也許一年淹個15次那因為有這樣的一個治水計畫可以減少個10次不然真的昨天你有看到那個天后宮的主委有特別提到一年淹15次"},{"start":776.596,"end":792.605,"text":"真的他不想再忍了所以我希望就是說中央跟地方我們一起合作然後中央來協助地方廣設制洪池或者是這個淹水地區的排水系統或是抽水站讓地方不要受淹水之苦啦好 謝謝委員指導好 謝謝好 謝謝黃委員 謝謝次長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":891,"blocks":[["黃委員秀芳：（11時29分）謝謝主席，我們先請部長。"],["主席：部長請。"],["彭部長啓明：黃委員好。"],["黃委員秀芳：部長好。部長，從上禮拜颱風過境之後，很多人都在關心，像彰化沿海地區的海面上有一些浮動的光電板，其實我在之前也非常關心，這些光電板如果一遇到颱風，錨定部分如果斷裂之後，可能會變成海漂垃圾就漂到其他地方，不一定是在原本的地方，也許漂到外海或者是澎湖，其他地方都有可能。我今天聽到很多委員對這部分也非常關心，我希望未來針對這些海面上的光電板或者是即將要新設的光電應該要更嚴格，因為像這一次的颱風是從西部上來，也許是第一次碰到這麼大的颱風，它的風速最強是到17級，我不知道彰化海面上的這些光電板可以承受到17級的陣風嗎？如果沒辦法的話，未來再碰到這麼大的颱風從西部上來，也許會造成這些光電板更多的損害，漂到外海或其他地方，剛剛大家講到會對環境有很大的影響，可能有一些有毒的重金屬，對整個生態有很大的影響。我想請教部長，依你的專業，未來在海面上的這些光電或即將要設置的光電案場，你是不是認為也應該要再加嚴？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，這次雖然有17級的強陣風，可是我們的離岸風電是沒有問題的，等於發的電還滿多的，但是據我了解，太陽光電其實從來沒有這樣好好地遇過，所以未來我們會跟能源署再來討論是不是在評估上面或模擬上面做調整，因為海上的浮動光電畢竟現在還在測試，為了因應未來極端氣候的條件，勢必要調整，因此委員的意見我們可以跟能源署來討論。"],["黃委員秀芳：我是認為……"],["彭部長啓明：要加嚴。"],["黃委員秀芳：真的要再加嚴啦！"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["黃委員秀芳：有時候我走在彰化地區沿海的西濱快速道路，就可以很清楚看到海岸邊有一大片的浮動式光電板，我覺得整個海岸的景觀跟以前是完全不一樣，又看到這一次的颱風造成光電的浮台在錨斷了之後飄到其他地方，對於這個部分，我覺得我們應該要再好好地去做檢討。你看這一次的風這麼大、雨這麼大，確實對整個環境會有很大的影響，我們不能再以以前的環評機制來處理，未來如果要再新設的話，我覺得應該要再加嚴，所以我們請環境部跟經濟部能源署應該要再好好地去檢討。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["黃委員秀芳：另外我想請教，除了海岸的浮動式光電，還有一種是屋頂型，我認為屋頂型的光電應該是可以好好地利用，因為這一次的颱風對屋頂型所造成的損害好像沒有那麼大，所以我覺得與其你們一直推岸上、滯洪池或者是魚塭上面的光電，還不如就好好地去推動屋頂型光電，因為它原本就是有固定物在那邊，就是房子的上面原本就有這樣子的一個固定物在那邊，在屋頂上面再加一個光電板，我覺得大家應該也可以接受，而且整個環境的景觀也不會有多大的改變，況且房子就是固定的，只要把它鎖緊，颱風造成的損害應該也不會那麼大。海上的光電其實我不太贊成，因為畢竟它會影響整個生態，雖然有經過環境影響評估……"],["彭部長啓明：沒有，這個這次是沒有。"],["黃委員秀芳：這種沒有嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有。"],["黃委員秀芳：海上的這種……"],["彭部長啓明：實驗型的都完全沒有。"],["黃委員秀芳：實驗型都沒有？"],["彭部長啓明：沒有。"],["黃委員秀芳：所以你看，整個浮板遇海水就浮起來，原本在潮間帶的這些生物，也許退潮之後光電板就黏在海灘上面，而底下的這些生物可能就因為這樣而沒辦法存活，我覺得這個未來應該要再好好思考，我認為應該要加嚴。至於屋頂型的，我覺得你們應該可以好好推動。"],["賴次長建信：好，謝謝委員指導，我們現在思索的方向確實如委員所指導的，第一個是屋頂型的部分，它在裝置之前有經過結構安全的檢查，而這次丹娜絲颱風之後我們到現場看，很多設置屋頂型的狀況都相對安全，甚至損害也是相對輕微，目前我們統計的33個案場裡面只有9個有非常輕微的損害。屋頂型裝置依照目前的建築技術規則大概是耐12到14級風，我們現在也預告了，我們希望對於屋頂型裝置的耐風程度要增加，以上是有關屋頂型的部分。","除此之外，剛剛有提到離岸型的部分，事實上全世界各國在做多元綠能推展的時候，它有很多的創新想法，離岸型的部分是一個複合性風場的概念，此概念是比如在風場底下可能有養殖或是有其他的需要，在可以耐當地風浪的情況下是可以增加這些綠能的使用。這一次創新的科技研究計畫，它是一個科技的研究計畫，就是看看這些在臺灣內陸裡面可以用的水面型，到海浪上面的話，它的結構哪些部分必須要做補強。不幸的是，這一次我們遭遇120年來第一次從布袋地區登陸的颱風，當然我們也知道，民國75年的時候韋恩颱風也有重創我們的西部，所以對於未來全國面對極端的氣候，不管是在綠能，或是在關鍵基礎設施，或是在社區，怎麼樣增強韌性的部分，我們經濟部內部已經開過非常多次的會議，舉例而言，我們這次發現很多地方因為電線桿倒塌了，所以電網的部分沒有辦法通電，如果我們可以有一些分散式的電網，然後可以增加韌性，甚至搭配儲能設施。丹娜絲颱風之後，能源署也調應了非常多的發電機跟儲能設備到社區關懷中心或是魚塭，供當地使用，這也是我們未來提升韌性的思索方向。以上。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我還是認為海面上的這種光電板，到底臺灣適不適合這樣做，應該要去好好做檢討。部長可以先回座，我問一下次長。"],["彭部長啓明：好，謝謝。"],["黃委員秀芳：因為這一次颱風過後，彰化在颱風當天是沒有造成什麼大的損害，但是隔天雨下的真的是超級多。"],["賴次長建信：非常大，因為時雨量達到150毫米。"],["黃委員秀芳：對。"],["賴次長建信：臺北市耐災的程度時雨量是78毫米。"],["黃委員秀芳：對。"],["賴次長建信：而且它是在2個小時裡面突然間下下來的。"],["黃委員秀芳：是啊，當天那個雨真的像是用倒的，彰化有很多地方都淹水。我想請教次長，當年你在當水利署署長的時候，前瞻基礎建設有一個8年800億的治水計畫，應該有一部分也有發揮它的功能。因為這一次像彰化地區，也有很多排水系統可能還要再做檢討，低窪的地區原本的排水可能要再加大或加深。我想請教次長，因為這次颱風很多淹水的地方，現在經濟部或者是整個行政院，有沒有針對易淹水地區有一個治水計畫？"],["賴次長建信：從民國96年開始，政府集中資源來協助地方政府辦理區域的排水改善，包括前瞻計畫，我們發現它的成效確實有展現出來。以彰化鹿港為例，剛剛說的那一場大雨，我們發現淹水的時間愈來愈少，淹水的面積也愈來愈少。"],["黃委員秀芳：2、3個小時就淹起來了。"],["賴次長建信：變少也只是說我們做系統性的治理，用三大原則──提高保護標準、降低淹水時間、降低淹水面積。目前經濟部已經擬定計畫呈報到行政院，像鹿港有一些抽水站是20年前設的，我們希望這些抽水站必須要改善。如何來提高保護的能力？在河道的下游若是有一個保護能力比較高的抽水站，它退水的時間會更快。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我們希望中央來協助地方，因為確實這場雨下得又大又急，在2、3個小時之內就整個都淹起來了，而且淹到膝蓋以上，所以我們希望中央跟地方一起合作，針對一些易淹水地區或是比較低窪的地區，整個排水系統可能要再次做個檢討，有的可能真的需要抽水，那個功能可能要再加強，因為那個時間可能真的要在1、2個小時內趕快啟動，要不然這真的是滿慘的。"],["賴次長建信：跟委員說明，彰化地區是全國第一個實施逕流分擔的，也就是在鹿港，為什麼會在鹿港實施這個計畫？因為我們透過圖層的套疊，發現鹿港的老街是一個相對比較低窪的地方，無論工程設施如何施做，它可能都要花大筆的錢，但若是可以藉由……我們已經有選定大概5處的公有土地，比如操場下面可以當滯洪池，有一些公園也可以做滯洪的設備，未來若這些設施完成之後，耐淹的程度就會提升，當然我們也需要社區、大家一起來努力。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，我們希望中央這邊預算真的要趕快編足，針對治水的預算如果可以編足的話，未來可以減少淹水的狀況，也許原本1年淹15次，但是因為有這樣一個治水計畫，可以減少10次。昨天你有看到天后宮的主委特別提到，1年淹了15次，他真的不想再忍了，所以我希望中央跟地方一起合作，由中央來協助地方廣設滯洪池，或者是易淹水地區的排水系統或抽水站，讓地方不要再受淹水之苦。"],["賴次長建信：好，謝謝委員指導。"],["黃委員秀芳：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝次長。","繼續我們請林淑芬委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":238,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-20","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","涂權吉","陳菁徽","黃秀芳","林淑芬","王正旭","黃國昌","楊曜","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳冠廷","陳瑩","盧縣一","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":145,"meetingDate":["2025-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部部長、海洋委員會、農業部、內政部、國防部、金融監督管理委員會針\n對「光電設施對環境影響情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00003"}}}