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\"也\", \"start\": 1146.844, \"end\": 1147.004, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 1147.004, \"end\": 1147.144, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1147.144, \"end\": 1147.224, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 1147.224, \"end\": 1147.244, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,115 --> 00:00:01,275\n總流專家\n\n2\n00:00:09,490 --> 00:00:32,421\n好謝謝我就根據這個剛剛林書恩委員提出這個問題其實大家最怕的失眠會致癌嘛那是一個一級的致癌物質沒錯不過那個是要長期曝露啦所以如果是一個民眾在短期像最近發生這樣的問題的話如果是長期曝露其實從那個致癌原理來看\n\n3\n00:00:33,081 --> 00:00:50,373\n他的風險是有可是不是大家所擔心的就是說我現在今天因為有這個暴露的狀況我是不是一個禮拜一個月幾個幾年以後就會馬上有這個厲害那麼高的風險這個是可能要讓民眾放心啦大家不要想說我這樣是不是\n\n4\n00:00:52,774 --> 00:01:18,588\n每次去中間就要造成一種生活上的困難或困擾這個其實民眾也可以從具有的科學知識來知道很多的致癌過程其實是跟我們的日常生活息息相關跟我們的這個建築物有一些關聯性可是也不要因為這個樣子過度恐慌造成不當的影響這個就先跟大家也做個說明跟報告那今天很謝謝我們這個\n\n5\n00:01:23,431 --> 00:01:37,958\n召集今天這樣的會議謝謝我們蘇委員能夠讓大家都知道各個部會針對這次的風災造成的影響大家都盡努力趕快期待能夠讓國人\n\n6\n00:01:39,159 --> 00:02:00,857\n能夠恢復正常的生活這個就是非常謝謝蘇少偉今天開這個相關委員會能夠讓國人知道大家努力的共同目標是在哪裡我還是先麻煩這個經濟部的次長先來討論一下這個這次風災造成的一些電網任性的部分市長好\n\n7\n00:02:04,259 --> 00:02:19,417\n我們也知道這次造成的風災影響我本身住在嘉義端那個地方的營養很厲害很厲害我想跟這個趙偉一樣大家住在東南部都感受到這次颱風造成的影響\n\n8\n00:02:20,878 --> 00:02:30,112\n看起來有100萬戶的用戶的這個用電受到影響到今天早上7點為止更新的最新消息還是有將近1300戶不完全好啦應該啦這兩天當然\n\n9\n00:02:35,740 --> 00:03:02,969\n真的台電非常害怕大家也都很感動都了解說這個害怕真的是讓這個受災戶得到很好的影響那我們也很可惜就是有一位台電的員工就是因為在這個救災過程裡面希望能夠趕快讓用戶能夠可以有電可用結果造成了這個生命上的影響這個大家都覺得很不捨不過我們也看得出來這一次所受的影響裡面看起來都是電費條\n\n10\n00:03:05,911 --> 00:03:23,727\n這電位條要倒幾百,大家都會覺得將來有可能要怎麼減輕這個電位條受到的影響因為我們看到高壓輸電線啊或者是那些固定好的相對比較穩固的機器,紅帶動員真厲害嘛這個有到這個17級的風這麼大的這個風可是如果說有好的這個處理方式將來\n\n11\n00:03:31,434 --> 00:03:47,219\n是不是有機會減少這樣的這個影響因為我們看到就是另外上一次這麼厲害的就是在蘇迪樂的颱風那是10年前所以如果我們雖然是10年是很長的時間不過我們要來換算我們如何能夠讓這個電網的韌性\n\n12\n00:03:51,360 --> 00:04:20,163\n可以在硬體上來加強的話那目前針對這次的颱風的經驗還是說用十年或者是幾年的這個經驗值來換的話那我們如果能夠針對這個電線感尤其是在比較寬闊像嘉南平原那種地方要怎樣有機會來減少類似這樣的影響不知道目前經濟部或者是台電這邊有沒有初步的一些想法或者是一些配套的措施\n\n13\n00:04:20,954 --> 00:04:39,884\n首先跟委員報告台電的電網強固計畫大概編了10年5600億左右從分散強固部分來著手那近期年來台電所犯的這個電感大概是一級的電感它的耐風的這個等級的話比原來我們在鄉間或是偏遠地方\n\n14\n00:04:41,805 --> 00:05:06,020\n設置的西級的電感它可以更耐風那除此之外的話比如說我們這次以興溫為例的話興溫有三個電塔倒塌了那若是我們可以分散電網的工作可以做更加的做的細緻的話它的影響的戶數就會比較少一點那當然除這個計畫之外我們最近在檢討裡面有發現說\n\n15\n00:05:09,082 --> 00:05:36,539\n不管是區域的電網要分散化之外那是不是有一些的微電網可以改善或是搭配儲能或是社區關懷中心活動中心有一些既有已經匹配好的發電機或是儲能系統這樣子就可以來減少民眾生活的這個不便性那舉例來講我們這幾天拼命的掉非常多的發電機但是每一個地方每一個使用的那個\n\n16\n00:05:38,180 --> 00:05:56,322\n它的系統不太一樣所以我們花了很長的時間去做匹配的工作因為假如匹配的不好它馬達會反轉它反而會整體可能是電力就失效可能造成搶修上面一個困難但是若是有儲能的系統搭配\n\n17\n00:05:57,003 --> 00:06:08,449\n比如說像屋頂型有比較強固的屋頂型的太陽能光電系統的話那這樣子對於設置所在的這個民眾或社區的影響就會相對的降低\n\n18\n00:06:08,999 --> 00:06:35,108\n所以這是系統性的部分還需要再做加強嘛是其實剛剛這個次長也有提到另外一個問題的就是說他很用心的希望能夠去加強我們這些光電板的使用來讓整體的用電可以有更為穩固可是我們看到的是說下一張很可惜啦因為大陸旁邊\n\n19\n00:06:36,488 --> 00:07:01,003\n花了很多電可是自己竟然因為這樣的風災而沒辦法使用就像我們很多住在這個水庫旁邊結果出問題的時候呢反而沒水可用所以像這個89歲阿嬤她就非常可惜她住在七股區結果她那邊的面積1.1萬公頃裡面有三分之一左右將來會變成一個供電區已經開發了1100多公頃\n\n20\n00:07:05,966 --> 00:07:20,244\n結果因為颱風夜他沒有電可以用結果他用了相關的一些方式來希望能夠用哪條燈火結果就發生了火災造成了悲劇\n\n21\n00:07:21,546 --> 00:07:40,041\n那這個當然我們也希望那個社會安全的部分明天衛福部我們也希望能夠針對出現這樣的這個大的這個事故的時候怎麼樣去讓社會安全可以有機會來維持不過同樣的就是說這個住宅桌邊開發大面積的光電煤電可用這個\n\n22\n00:07:42,463 --> 00:07:58,631\n為韌性的部分如何來加強不知道目前市長有沒有相關的一些訊息因為我們去了解其他國家如何優先開發光電區域來提升這個電網的韌性其實都有不同的做法日本啊或者是像歐盟\n\n23\n00:07:59,611 --> 00:08:10,164\n澳洲等等不知道有沒有參考類似的國家針對這個周邊開發大面積的光點的地方如何能夠減少對水化品不最可用的這個窘境\n\n24\n00:08:12,385 --> 00:08:16,227\n此次丹納斯颱風我們經過統計所有的電線桿搗斷了3,455根特別是在颱風侵襲的重災區包括我們嘉義跟北台南我們現在看到的電線桿幾乎都是台電的員工\n\n25\n00:08:32,915 --> 00:08:54,694\n這幾天裡面所新述出來的那至於剛剛委員這張slide所提到的這個部分因為我們不管是從發電端它所發出來的電都是靠台電的這個電網系統來供應的那為了要改善這個問題達到委員所期待的這個目標它可能必須要搭配儲能的這個系統\n\n26\n00:08:56,075 --> 00:09:19,837\n這個充能系統它可以有頻率的調整因為我們知道任何一個發電設施它的發電的時間跟頻率必須要有發電的時間會不太一樣如果是有這個配套的話它可以取代說台電的電網一旦有所破壞的時候它可以受到的這個影響會降到最低\n\n27\n00:09:21,613 --> 00:09:47,645\n是好謝謝那就次長先請回座來請教一下彭部長部長我們可以說到目前這次包括台南嘉義有那麼多的這個光電板需要即時處理一共有14萬5千片約有2800公噸早上年年有報告說目前有四個機構四家可以來處理每一個月可以達到4400噸的這個處理的這個量能\n\n28\n00:09:51,287 --> 00:09:55,730\n不過這個是普通是一鍋可以處理4400現在是兩天就要處理2800噸這個時間跟著時間在賽跑大家剛剛討論很多就是說這些東西你如果不趕快處理會不會對於土\n\n29\n00:10:08,658 --> 00:10:29,948\n泥土的土壤的影響啊或是對於水質的影響等等的所以想要知道就是目前在這麼短的時間裡面這個量能如果他們是屬於全部都是在處理這些光電板的這個廠嗎還是說他們還有家長要處理其他的這些廢棄物那在量能上有沒有什麼要因應的部分\n\n30\n00:10:30,428 --> 00:10:46,263\n報告委員我上禮拜六有去特別去看了廠就是這個處理的廠那他們當然啦原來的量沒那麼的多因為以前就沒有那麼多可以去處理那現在突然多了那麼多那我們是給他有一個許可量過去有一個許可量所以這個4400噸是我們給他的許可量\n\n31\n00:10:49,325 --> 00:11:10,227\n現在我們會打開許可量他們也會答應全天候的加班來處理這個事情所以他們預估1.5個月1.5個月可以去化完成就是說我們前面的現場清理最多兩個禮拜然後後面希望1.5個月可以完成這個是我們目前掌握的訊息\n\n32\n00:11:10,899 --> 00:11:31,808\n好希望到時候部長可以用心的去查核就是1.5個月到底能不能夠像他們所允諾的可以把它處理到一個比較完整的部分那早上也有提到說有關於在這個設置光電廠的時候需要繳交回收費用那目前我們依照這個回收費用100瓦的這個\n\n33\n00:11:33,369 --> 00:11:48,017\n發電量需要繳交一千元的模組回收費可是那這個是分十年期來做回收嘛那現在針對天災受損的部分可能有一些是剛繳交一到兩年\n\n34\n00:11:49,077 --> 00:12:06,523\n所以依照這個像嘉義所造成的影響他可能在109年才開始處理好所以他們實際上只有到目前為止只有繳交將近4到5年嘛未來目前這麼大的影響如何能夠讓這個費用可以\n\n35\n00:12:09,185 --> 00:12:19,992\n確定他們會能夠繳納完成或者是之前有沒有沒有辦法如期繳交這個費用的部分不知道目前有沒有數據可以給大家做參考\n\n36\n00:12:21,012 --> 00:12:40,557\n是這個目前是業者他要繳交他要分年度來繳交但是目前這個風災受損的部分還是他自己要去處理那未來他要逐步把這個費用再繳回來那我們現在是繳交的費用是一個大水庫他繳到我們能源發展基金來\n\n37\n00:12:42,957 --> 00:13:07,950\n環境部這邊處理完之後他要的費用再跟我們申請但是這個責任都是在業者身上他現在沒有繳足的他還是要自己處理那未來他如果提前來繳交這個費用的話未來會從他整體的費用裡面扣足也就是說他有多少太陽能板他就是要處理多少那不夠的他要自己先行處理那未來他會再陸續繳交費用回來\n\n38\n00:13:10,736 --> 00:13:29,645\n因為這個牽涉到兩個部會嘛包括經濟部還有環境部所以真的這個費用的繳交或者是如何能夠去做適當的管理這個我們會努力的來注意將來在這個費用處理上面是不是能夠依照我們當初所預期的可以得到很好的處理模式\n\n39\n00:13:30,385 --> 00:13:47,366\n好謝謝再過來就是有關於這個4月廢棄物去化量的部分我想很多委員也都非常的關心包括廢棄物能不能再因為這個因應災後的需求我們這邊看到就是重創家人的同時其實新北環保隊真的非常的感心\n\n40\n00:13:48,107 --> 00:14:13,140\n去協助處理了這個將近3000噸的廢棄物所以我想這個是中央可以調配還是說這是新北他們非常用心的去協助各個不同的縣市那我們看到八七彰化七八水災以後垃圾要三天裡面要這個清理4600噸相信如果能夠及時的去處理到的話對於環境的影響\n\n41\n00:14:14,221 --> 00:14:36,423\n包括早上王一鳴有很擔心會不會因為這些廢棄物沒有及時清理好以後對於公共衛生造成的衝擊等等的那目前中央有沒有統籌如何能夠針對這個廢棄物去量化做一個適時的調配或者是如何能夠協助讓這個受災區域能夠盡速的去完成這樣的災後的處理模式\n\n42\n00:14:37,714 --> 00:15:04,701\n這個我們要感謝各縣市通道一命環保局一起來幫助這幾個縣市那這個量的部分我請我們的署長來回應是委員所關心的嘉義縣這個部分到15號為止總共清除了6000公噸的量那截至目前為止就採分流的方式那這個可以焚燒的因為這個可以調度到焚化廠裡面那其他有些樹枝暫時\n\n43\n00:15:06,361 --> 00:15:19,929\n還很潮濕的就先到一些掩埋場先暫置做一個處理之後再回到這個文化場裡面或其他管道裡面那大的木材是可以飆售的這個同時再做\n\n44\n00:15:23,331 --> 00:15:46,227\n這個是事業廢棄物也好或者是最新的風災帶來廢棄物廢棄物也好這個大家可以共同像剛剛講的同島一命嘛大概就會來處理不過我們要麻煩這個農業部市長是不是也可以同時告訴我們一下這邊的農業也是影響很大包括我們所擔心的這個文旦一下子全部都被\n\n45\n00:15:48,568 --> 00:16:09,239\n這個風災簽完了嘛還有很多相關的這個農業如果因為這次風災造成的這種果實掉落或其他相關的廢棄物的影響包括廚餘如果在這個風災裡面是不是也因為受到這個量能的排擠有沒有一個新的方式或者是好的方式來處理我這邊先跟兩位部會的這個長官同時來\n\n46\n00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:29,182\n希望能夠針對於如果再有機廢棄物也好或者是處理廢棄物也好針對這個好的方式來解決這些廢棄物的話像目前我們知道黑水盲事實上呢是可以有提供很大的協助不知道這方面兩個部會將來有沒有好的規劃方式\n\n47\n00:16:30,803 --> 00:16:44,835\n先跟委員報告就是就目前現有的這個部分因為目前在嘉義跟台南的地區尤其是文旦落果還有這個養殖餘溫的這個死亡的這個部分那確實在短期之內會造成非常多的這個\n\n48\n00:16:46,135 --> 00:17:09,491\n這個必須要去去化這樣的一個過程那所以我們這個部分也跟嘉義縣政府縣市政府還有包括台南市政府這邊達成了這樣的一個溝通跟協調的工作那就是在過去在處理的時候一般來說的話我們的這個公部門的機具是比較少能夠進到這個養殖餘溫裡面去那但是因為這次死亡的這個量真的是確實太多了那所以公所這邊會用這個抓斗車的這個部分進到這個果園跟這個餘溫那邊\n\n49\n00:17:14,974 --> 00:17:35,052\n協助這個農民把這些廢棄物清理到這個所謂的太空包或者是這個袋子裡面然後再送到化質廠去那減輕這個部分那第二個部分就是剛剛委員詢問有關於這個黑水盲的這個部分那事實上長久以來我們也一直在推動這樣的一個目標\n\n50\n00:17:35,712 --> 00:17:46,305\n那所以在這個我們的這個相關的農業的這樣的一個場所裡面我們也有這樣的一個不管已經不是實驗性質而是實際在執行的這樣的一個工作以上\n\n51\n00:17:47,045 --> 00:18:11,738\n好非常謝謝我想最後一張是要還是再次感謝我們趙偉利用今天的這個相關的會議裡面讓我們知道其實中央政府各個機關真的都非常用心的在處理風災造成的對民眾不管是健康或者是生活上期待能夠透過大家的努力很快能夠克服這樣的困難台灣就是要做輪命啦\n\n52\n00:18:12,678 --> 00:18:31,383\n這個都是要大家要互相的互相再努力我插播一下部長你就全方向全品位就不用條件就前面補助嘛農業是不是這樣\n\n53\n00:18:34,096 --> 00:19:00,279\n我們現在持續的一直在公告當中所以說我們的部裡面在第一個時間裡面就針對大規模的區域還有品項目前已經主動的公告了六波就是涵蓋了九個縣市的這個相關品項的這個部分那像余溫的像嘉義跟台南的這個部分那因為余溫的養殖受到很大的這樣\n\n54\n00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:07,244\n又受到停電的影響所以在餘溫養殖的那個部分我們是全品項免限刊已經在執行了那也跟委員報告\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1115\t1275\t總流專家\n9490\t32421\t好 謝謝我就根據這個剛剛林書恩委員提出這個問題其實大家最怕的失眠會致癌嘛那是一個一級的致癌物質沒錯不過那個是要長期曝露啦所以如果是一個民眾在短期像最近發生這樣的問題的話如果是長期曝露其實從那個致癌原理來看\n33081\t50373\t他的風險是有可是不是大家所擔心的就是說我現在今天因為有這個暴露的狀況我是不是一個禮拜一個月幾個幾年以後就會馬上有這個厲害那麼高的風險這個是可能要讓民眾放心啦大家不要想說我這樣是不是\n52774\t78588\t每次去中間就要造成一種生活上的困難或困擾這個其實民眾也可以從具有的科學知識來知道很多的致癌過程其實是跟我們的日常生活息息相關跟我們的這個建築物有一些關聯性可是也不要因為這個樣子過度恐慌造成不當的影響這個就先跟大家也做個說明跟報告那今天很謝謝我們這個\n83431\t97958\t召集今天這樣的會議謝謝我們蘇委員能夠讓大家都知道各個部會針對這次的風災造成的影響大家都盡努力趕快期待能夠讓國人\n99159\t120857\t能夠恢復正常的生活這個就是非常謝謝蘇少偉今天開這個相關委員會能夠讓國人知道大家努力的共同目標是在哪裡我還是先麻煩這個經濟部的次長先來討論一下這個這次風災造成的一些電網任性的部分市長好\n124259\t139417\t我們也知道這次造成的風災影響我本身住在嘉義端那個地方的營養很厲害很厲害我想跟這個趙偉一樣大家住在東南部都感受到這次颱風造成的影響\n140878\t150112\t看起來有100萬戶的用戶的這個用電受到影響到今天早上7點為止更新的最新消息還是有將近1300戶不完全好啦應該啦 這兩天當然\n155740\t182969\t真的台電非常害怕大家也都很感動都了解說這個害怕真的是讓這個受災戶得到很好的影響那我們也很可惜就是有一位台電的員工就是因為在這個救災過程裡面希望能夠趕快讓用戶能夠可以有電可用結果造成了這個生命上的影響這個大家都覺得很不捨不過我們也看得出來這一次所受的影響裡面看起來都是電費條\n185911\t203727\t這電位條要倒幾百,大家都會覺得將來有可能要怎麼減輕這個電位條受到的影響因為我們看到高壓輸電線啊或者是那些固定好的相對比較穩固的機器,紅帶動員真厲害嘛這個有到這個17級的風這麼大的這個風可是如果說有好的這個處理方式將來\n211434\t227219\t是不是有機會減少這樣的這個影響因為我們看到就是另外上一次這麼厲害的就是在蘇迪樂的颱風那是10年前所以如果我們雖然是10年是很長的時間不過我們要來換算我們如何能夠讓這個電網的韌性\n231360\t260163\t可以在硬體上來加強的話那目前針對這次的颱風的經驗還是說用十年或者是幾年的這個經驗值來換的話那我們如果能夠針對這個電線感尤其是在比較寬闊像嘉南平原那種地方要怎樣有機會來減少類似這樣的影響不知道目前經濟部或者是台電這邊有沒有初步的一些想法或者是一些配套的措施\n260954\t279884\t首先跟委員報告台電的電網強固計畫大概編了10年5600億左右從分散強固部分來著手那近期年來台電所犯的這個電感大概是一級的電感它的耐風的這個等級的話比原來我們在鄉間或是偏遠地方\n281805\t306020\t設置的西級的電感它可以更耐風那除此之外的話比如說我們這次以興溫為例的話興溫有三個電塔倒塌了那若是我們可以分散電網的工作可以做更加的做的細緻的話它的影響的戶數就會比較少一點那當然除這個計畫之外我們最近在檢討裡面有發現說\n309082\t336539\t不管是區域的電網要分散化之外那是不是有一些的微電網可以改善或是搭配儲能或是社區關懷中心活動中心有一些既有已經匹配好的發電機或是儲能系統這樣子就可以來減少民眾生活的這個不便性那舉例來講我們這幾天拼命的掉非常多的發電機但是每一個地方每一個使用的那個\n338180\t356322\t它的系統不太一樣所以我們花了很長的時間去做匹配的工作因為假如匹配的不好它馬達會反轉它反而會整體可能是電力就失效可能造成搶修上面一個困難但是若是有儲能的系統搭配\n357003\t368449\t比如說像屋頂型有比較強固的屋頂型的太陽能光電系統的話那這樣子對於設置所在的這個民眾或社區的影響就會相對的降低\n368999\t395108\t所以這是系統性的部分還需要再做加強嘛是其實剛剛這個次長也有提到另外一個問題的就是說他很用心的希望能夠去加強我們這些光電板的使用來讓整體的用電可以有更為穩固可是我們看到的是說下一張很可惜啦因為大陸旁邊\n396488\t421003\t花了很多電 可是自己竟然因為這樣的風災而沒辦法使用就像我們很多住在這個水庫旁邊結果出問題的時候呢 反而沒水可用所以像這個89歲阿嬤她就非常可惜她住在七股區結果她那邊的面積1.1萬公頃裡面有三分之一左右將來會變成一個供電區已經開發了1100多公頃\n425966\t440244\t結果因為颱風夜他沒有電可以用結果他用了相關的一些方式來希望能夠用哪條燈火結果就發生了火災造成了悲劇\n441546\t460041\t那這個當然我們也希望那個社會安全的部分明天衛福部我們也希望能夠針對出現這樣的這個大的這個事故的時候怎麼樣去讓社會安全可以有機會來維持不過同樣的就是說這個住宅桌邊開發大面積的光電煤電可用這個\n462463\t478631\t為韌性的部分如何來加強不知道目前市長有沒有相關的一些訊息因為我們去了解其他國家如何優先開發光電區域來提升這個電網的韌性其實都有不同的做法日本啊或者是像歐盟\n479611\t490164\t澳洲等等不知道有沒有參考類似的國家針對這個周邊開發大面積的光點的地方如何能夠減少對水化品不最可用的這個窘境\n492385\t496227\t此次丹納斯颱風我們經過統計所有的電線桿搗斷了3,455根特別是在颱風侵襲的重災區包括我們嘉義跟北台南我們現在看到的電線桿幾乎都是台電的員工\n512915\t534694\t這幾天裡面所新述出來的那至於剛剛委員這張slide所提到的這個部分因為我們不管是從發電端它所發出來的電都是靠台電的這個電網系統來供應的那為了要改善這個問題達到委員所期待的這個目標它可能必須要搭配儲能的這個系統\n536075\t559837\t這個充能系統它可以有頻率的調整因為我們知道任何一個發電設施它的發電的時間跟頻率必須要有發電的時間會不太一樣如果是有這個配套的話它可以取代說台電的電網一旦有所破壞的時候它可以受到的這個影響會降到最低\n561613\t587645\t是好謝謝那就次長先請回座來請教一下彭部長部長我們可以說到目前這次包括台南嘉義有那麼多的這個光電板需要即時處理一共有14萬5千片約有2800公噸早上年年有報告說目前有四個機構四家可以來處理每一個月可以達到4400噸的這個處理的這個量能\n591287\t595730\t不過這個是普通是一鍋可以處理4400現在是兩天就要處理2800噸這個時間跟著時間在賽跑大家剛剛討論很多就是說這些東西你如果不趕快處理會不會對於土\n608658\t629948\t泥土的土壤的影響啊或是對於水質的影響等等的所以想要知道就是目前在這麼短的時間裡面這個量能如果他們是屬於全部都是在處理這些光電板的這個廠嗎還是說他們還有家長要處理其他的這些廢棄物那在量能上有沒有什麼要因應的部分\n630428\t646263\t報告委員我上禮拜六有去特別去看了廠就是這個處理的廠那他們當然啦原來的量沒那麼的多因為以前就沒有那麼多可以去處理那現在突然多了那麼多那我們是給他有一個許可量過去有一個許可量所以這個4400噸是我們給他的許可量\n649325\t670227\t現在我們會打開許可量他們也會答應全天候的加班來處理這個事情所以他們預估1.5個月1.5個月可以去化完成就是說我們前面的現場清理最多兩個禮拜然後後面希望1.5個月可以完成這個是我們目前掌握的訊息\n670899\t691808\t好 希望到時候部長可以用心的去查核就是1.5個月到底能不能夠像他們所允諾的可以把它處理到一個比較完整的部分那早上也有提到說有關於在這個設置光電廠的時候需要繳交回收費用那目前我們依照這個回收費用100瓦的這個\n693369\t708017\t發電量需要繳交一千元的模組回收費可是那這個是分十年期來做回收嘛那現在針對天災受損的部分可能有一些是剛繳交一到兩年\n709077\t726523\t所以依照這個像嘉義所造成的影響他可能在109年才開始處理好所以他們實際上只有到目前為止只有繳交將近4到5年嘛未來目前這麼大的影響如何能夠讓這個費用可以\n729185\t739992\t確定他們會能夠繳納完成或者是之前有沒有沒有辦法如期繳交這個費用的部分不知道目前有沒有數據可以給大家做參考\n741012\t760557\t是 這個目前是業者他要繳交 他要分年度來繳交但是目前這個風災受損的部分還是他自己要去處理那未來他要逐步把這個費用再繳回來那我們現在是繳交的費用是一個大水庫他繳到我們能源發展基金來\n762957\t787950\t環境部這邊處理完之後他要的費用再跟我們申請但是這個責任都是在業者身上他現在沒有繳足的他還是要自己處理那未來他如果提前來繳交這個費用的話未來會從他整體的費用裡面扣足也就是說他有多少太陽能板他就是要處理多少那不夠的他要自己先行處理那未來他會再陸續繳交費用回來\n790736\t809645\t因為這個牽涉到兩個部會嘛包括經濟部還有環境部所以真的這個費用的繳交或者是如何能夠去做適當的管理這個我們會努力的來注意將來在這個費用處理上面是不是能夠依照我們當初所預期的可以得到很好的處理模式\n810385\t827366\t好 謝謝再過來就是有關於這個4月廢棄物去化量的部分我想很多委員也都非常的關心包括廢棄物能不能再因為這個因應災後的需求我們這邊看到就是重創家人的同時其實新北環保隊真的非常的感心\n828107\t853140\t去協助處理了這個將近3000噸的廢棄物所以我想這個是中央可以調配還是說這是新北他們非常用心的去協助各個不同的縣市那我們看到八七彰化七八水災以後垃圾要三天裡面要這個清理4600噸相信如果能夠及時的去處理到的話對於環境的影響\n854221\t876423\t包括早上王一鳴有很擔心會不會因為這些廢棄物沒有及時清理好以後對於公共衛生造成的衝擊等等的那目前中央有沒有統籌如何能夠針對這個廢棄物去量化做一個適時的調配或者是如何能夠協助讓這個受災區域能夠盡速的去完成這樣的災後的處理模式\n877714\t904701\t這個我們要感謝各縣市通道一命環保局一起來幫助這幾個縣市那這個量的部分我請我們的署長來回應是委員所關心的嘉義縣這個部分到15號為止總共清除了6000公噸的量那截至目前為止就採分流的方式那這個可以焚燒的因為這個可以調度到焚化廠裡面那其他有些樹枝暫時\n906361\t919929\t還很潮濕的就先到一些掩埋場先暫置做一個處理之後再回到這個文化場裡面或其他管道裡面那大的木材是可以飆售的這個同時再做\n923331\t946227\t這個是事業廢棄物也好或者是最新的風災帶來廢棄物廢棄物也好這個大家可以共同像剛剛講的同島一命嘛大概就會來處理不過我們要麻煩這個農業部市長是不是也可以同時告訴我們一下這邊的農業也是影響很大包括我們所擔心的這個文旦一下子全部都被\n948568\t969239\t這個風災簽完了嘛還有很多相關的這個農業如果因為這次風災造成的這種果實掉落或其他相關的廢棄物的影響包括廚餘如果在這個風災裡面是不是也因為受到這個量能的排擠有沒有一個新的方式或者是好的方式來處理我這邊先跟兩位部會的這個長官同時來\n971520\t989182\t希望能夠針對於如果再有機廢棄物也好或者是處理廢棄物也好針對這個好的方式來解決這些廢棄物的話像目前我們知道黑水盲事實上呢是可以有提供很大的協助不知道這方面兩個部會將來有沒有好的規劃方式\n990803\t1004835\t先跟委員報告就是就目前現有的這個部分因為目前在嘉義跟台南的地區尤其是文旦落果還有這個養殖餘溫的這個死亡的這個部分那確實在短期之內會造成非常多的這個\n1006135\t1029491\t這個必須要去去化這樣的一個過程那所以我們這個部分也跟嘉義縣政府縣市政府還有包括台南市政府這邊達成了這樣的一個溝通跟協調的工作那就是在過去在處理的時候一般來說的話我們的這個公部門的機具是比較少能夠進到這個養殖餘溫裡面去那但是因為這次死亡的這個量真的是確實太多了那所以公所這邊會用這個抓斗車的這個部分進到這個果園跟這個餘溫那邊\n1034974\t1055052\t協助這個農民把這些廢棄物清理到這個所謂的太空包或者是這個袋子裡面然後再送到化質廠去那減輕這個部分那第二個部分就是剛剛委員詢問有關於這個黑水盲的這個部分那事實上長久以來我們也一直在推動這樣的一個目標\n1055712\t1066305\t那所以在這個我們的這個相關的農業的這樣的一個場所裡面我們也有這樣的一個不管已經不是實驗性質而是實際在執行的這樣的一個工作以上\n1067045\t1091738\t好 非常謝謝我想最後一張是要還是再次感謝我們趙偉利用今天的這個相關的會議裡面讓我們知道其實中央政府各個機關真的都非常用心的在處理風災造成的對民眾不管是健康或者是生活上期待能夠透過大家的努力很快能夠克服這樣的困難台灣就是要做輪命啦\n1092678\t1111383\t這個都是要大家要互相的互相再努力我插播一下部長你就全方向全品位就不用條件就前面補助嘛農業是不是這樣\n1114096\t1140279\t我們現在持續的一直在公告當中所以說我們的部裡面在第一個時間裡面就針對大規模的區域還有品項目前已經主動的公告了六波就是涵蓋了九個縣市的這個相關品項的這個部分那像余溫的像嘉義跟台南的這個部分那因為余溫的養殖受到很大的這樣\n1141279\t1147244\t又受到停電的影響所以在餘溫養殖的那個部分我們是全品項免限刊已經在執行了那也跟委員報告\n","txt":"總流專家\n好 謝謝我就根據這個剛剛林書恩委員提出這個問題其實大家最怕的失眠會致癌嘛那是一個一級的致癌物質沒錯不過那個是要長期曝露啦所以如果是一個民眾在短期像最近發生這樣的問題的話如果是長期曝露其實從那個致癌原理來看\n他的風險是有可是不是大家所擔心的就是說我現在今天因為有這個暴露的狀況我是不是一個禮拜一個月幾個幾年以後就會馬上有這個厲害那麼高的風險這個是可能要讓民眾放心啦大家不要想說我這樣是不是\n每次去中間就要造成一種生活上的困難或困擾這個其實民眾也可以從具有的科學知識來知道很多的致癌過程其實是跟我們的日常生活息息相關跟我們的這個建築物有一些關聯性可是也不要因為這個樣子過度恐慌造成不當的影響這個就先跟大家也做個說明跟報告那今天很謝謝我們這個\n召集今天這樣的會議謝謝我們蘇委員能夠讓大家都知道各個部會針對這次的風災造成的影響大家都盡努力趕快期待能夠讓國人\n能夠恢復正常的生活這個就是非常謝謝蘇少偉今天開這個相關委員會能夠讓國人知道大家努力的共同目標是在哪裡我還是先麻煩這個經濟部的次長先來討論一下這個這次風災造成的一些電網任性的部分市長好\n我們也知道這次造成的風災影響我本身住在嘉義端那個地方的營養很厲害很厲害我想跟這個趙偉一樣大家住在東南部都感受到這次颱風造成的影響\n看起來有100萬戶的用戶的這個用電受到影響到今天早上7點為止更新的最新消息還是有將近1300戶不完全好啦應該啦 這兩天當然\n真的台電非常害怕大家也都很感動都了解說這個害怕真的是讓這個受災戶得到很好的影響那我們也很可惜就是有一位台電的員工就是因為在這個救災過程裡面希望能夠趕快讓用戶能夠可以有電可用結果造成了這個生命上的影響這個大家都覺得很不捨不過我們也看得出來這一次所受的影響裡面看起來都是電費條\n這電位條要倒幾百,大家都會覺得將來有可能要怎麼減輕這個電位條受到的影響因為我們看到高壓輸電線啊或者是那些固定好的相對比較穩固的機器,紅帶動員真厲害嘛這個有到這個17級的風這麼大的這個風可是如果說有好的這個處理方式將來\n是不是有機會減少這樣的這個影響因為我們看到就是另外上一次這麼厲害的就是在蘇迪樂的颱風那是10年前所以如果我們雖然是10年是很長的時間不過我們要來換算我們如何能夠讓這個電網的韌性\n可以在硬體上來加強的話那目前針對這次的颱風的經驗還是說用十年或者是幾年的這個經驗值來換的話那我們如果能夠針對這個電線感尤其是在比較寬闊像嘉南平原那種地方要怎樣有機會來減少類似這樣的影響不知道目前經濟部或者是台電這邊有沒有初步的一些想法或者是一些配套的措施\n首先跟委員報告台電的電網強固計畫大概編了10年5600億左右從分散強固部分來著手那近期年來台電所犯的這個電感大概是一級的電感它的耐風的這個等級的話比原來我們在鄉間或是偏遠地方\n設置的西級的電感它可以更耐風那除此之外的話比如說我們這次以興溫為例的話興溫有三個電塔倒塌了那若是我們可以分散電網的工作可以做更加的做的細緻的話它的影響的戶數就會比較少一點那當然除這個計畫之外我們最近在檢討裡面有發現說\n不管是區域的電網要分散化之外那是不是有一些的微電網可以改善或是搭配儲能或是社區關懷中心活動中心有一些既有已經匹配好的發電機或是儲能系統這樣子就可以來減少民眾生活的這個不便性那舉例來講我們這幾天拼命的掉非常多的發電機但是每一個地方每一個使用的那個\n它的系統不太一樣所以我們花了很長的時間去做匹配的工作因為假如匹配的不好它馬達會反轉它反而會整體可能是電力就失效可能造成搶修上面一個困難但是若是有儲能的系統搭配\n比如說像屋頂型有比較強固的屋頂型的太陽能光電系統的話那這樣子對於設置所在的這個民眾或社區的影響就會相對的降低\n所以這是系統性的部分還需要再做加強嘛是其實剛剛這個次長也有提到另外一個問題的就是說他很用心的希望能夠去加強我們這些光電板的使用來讓整體的用電可以有更為穩固可是我們看到的是說下一張很可惜啦因為大陸旁邊\n花了很多電 可是自己竟然因為這樣的風災而沒辦法使用就像我們很多住在這個水庫旁邊結果出問題的時候呢 反而沒水可用所以像這個89歲阿嬤她就非常可惜她住在七股區結果她那邊的面積1.1萬公頃裡面有三分之一左右將來會變成一個供電區已經開發了1100多公頃\n結果因為颱風夜他沒有電可以用結果他用了相關的一些方式來希望能夠用哪條燈火結果就發生了火災造成了悲劇\n那這個當然我們也希望那個社會安全的部分明天衛福部我們也希望能夠針對出現這樣的這個大的這個事故的時候怎麼樣去讓社會安全可以有機會來維持不過同樣的就是說這個住宅桌邊開發大面積的光電煤電可用這個\n為韌性的部分如何來加強不知道目前市長有沒有相關的一些訊息因為我們去了解其他國家如何優先開發光電區域來提升這個電網的韌性其實都有不同的做法日本啊或者是像歐盟\n澳洲等等不知道有沒有參考類似的國家針對這個周邊開發大面積的光點的地方如何能夠減少對水化品不最可用的這個窘境\n此次丹納斯颱風我們經過統計所有的電線桿搗斷了3,455根特別是在颱風侵襲的重災區包括我們嘉義跟北台南我們現在看到的電線桿幾乎都是台電的員工\n這幾天裡面所新述出來的那至於剛剛委員這張slide所提到的這個部分因為我們不管是從發電端它所發出來的電都是靠台電的這個電網系統來供應的那為了要改善這個問題達到委員所期待的這個目標它可能必須要搭配儲能的這個系統\n這個充能系統它可以有頻率的調整因為我們知道任何一個發電設施它的發電的時間跟頻率必須要有發電的時間會不太一樣如果是有這個配套的話它可以取代說台電的電網一旦有所破壞的時候它可以受到的這個影響會降到最低\n是好謝謝那就次長先請回座來請教一下彭部長部長我們可以說到目前這次包括台南嘉義有那麼多的這個光電板需要即時處理一共有14萬5千片約有2800公噸早上年年有報告說目前有四個機構四家可以來處理每一個月可以達到4400噸的這個處理的這個量能\n不過這個是普通是一鍋可以處理4400現在是兩天就要處理2800噸這個時間跟著時間在賽跑大家剛剛討論很多就是說這些東西你如果不趕快處理會不會對於土\n泥土的土壤的影響啊或是對於水質的影響等等的所以想要知道就是目前在這麼短的時間裡面這個量能如果他們是屬於全部都是在處理這些光電板的這個廠嗎還是說他們還有家長要處理其他的這些廢棄物那在量能上有沒有什麼要因應的部分\n報告委員我上禮拜六有去特別去看了廠就是這個處理的廠那他們當然啦原來的量沒那麼的多因為以前就沒有那麼多可以去處理那現在突然多了那麼多那我們是給他有一個許可量過去有一個許可量所以這個4400噸是我們給他的許可量\n現在我們會打開許可量他們也會答應全天候的加班來處理這個事情所以他們預估1.5個月1.5個月可以去化完成就是說我們前面的現場清理最多兩個禮拜然後後面希望1.5個月可以完成這個是我們目前掌握的訊息\n好 希望到時候部長可以用心的去查核就是1.5個月到底能不能夠像他們所允諾的可以把它處理到一個比較完整的部分那早上也有提到說有關於在這個設置光電廠的時候需要繳交回收費用那目前我們依照這個回收費用100瓦的這個\n發電量需要繳交一千元的模組回收費可是那這個是分十年期來做回收嘛那現在針對天災受損的部分可能有一些是剛繳交一到兩年\n所以依照這個像嘉義所造成的影響他可能在109年才開始處理好所以他們實際上只有到目前為止只有繳交將近4到5年嘛未來目前這麼大的影響如何能夠讓這個費用可以\n確定他們會能夠繳納完成或者是之前有沒有沒有辦法如期繳交這個費用的部分不知道目前有沒有數據可以給大家做參考\n是 這個目前是業者他要繳交 他要分年度來繳交但是目前這個風災受損的部分還是他自己要去處理那未來他要逐步把這個費用再繳回來那我們現在是繳交的費用是一個大水庫他繳到我們能源發展基金來\n環境部這邊處理完之後他要的費用再跟我們申請但是這個責任都是在業者身上他現在沒有繳足的他還是要自己處理那未來他如果提前來繳交這個費用的話未來會從他整體的費用裡面扣足也就是說他有多少太陽能板他就是要處理多少那不夠的他要自己先行處理那未來他會再陸續繳交費用回來\n因為這個牽涉到兩個部會嘛包括經濟部還有環境部所以真的這個費用的繳交或者是如何能夠去做適當的管理這個我們會努力的來注意將來在這個費用處理上面是不是能夠依照我們當初所預期的可以得到很好的處理模式\n好 謝謝再過來就是有關於這個4月廢棄物去化量的部分我想很多委員也都非常的關心包括廢棄物能不能再因為這個因應災後的需求我們這邊看到就是重創家人的同時其實新北環保隊真的非常的感心\n去協助處理了這個將近3000噸的廢棄物所以我想這個是中央可以調配還是說這是新北他們非常用心的去協助各個不同的縣市那我們看到八七彰化七八水災以後垃圾要三天裡面要這個清理4600噸相信如果能夠及時的去處理到的話對於環境的影響\n包括早上王一鳴有很擔心會不會因為這些廢棄物沒有及時清理好以後對於公共衛生造成的衝擊等等的那目前中央有沒有統籌如何能夠針對這個廢棄物去量化做一個適時的調配或者是如何能夠協助讓這個受災區域能夠盡速的去完成這樣的災後的處理模式\n這個我們要感謝各縣市通道一命環保局一起來幫助這幾個縣市那這個量的部分我請我們的署長來回應是委員所關心的嘉義縣這個部分到15號為止總共清除了6000公噸的量那截至目前為止就採分流的方式那這個可以焚燒的因為這個可以調度到焚化廠裡面那其他有些樹枝暫時\n還很潮濕的就先到一些掩埋場先暫置做一個處理之後再回到這個文化場裡面或其他管道裡面那大的木材是可以飆售的這個同時再做\n這個是事業廢棄物也好或者是最新的風災帶來廢棄物廢棄物也好這個大家可以共同像剛剛講的同島一命嘛大概就會來處理不過我們要麻煩這個農業部市長是不是也可以同時告訴我們一下這邊的農業也是影響很大包括我們所擔心的這個文旦一下子全部都被\n這個風災簽完了嘛還有很多相關的這個農業如果因為這次風災造成的這種果實掉落或其他相關的廢棄物的影響包括廚餘如果在這個風災裡面是不是也因為受到這個量能的排擠有沒有一個新的方式或者是好的方式來處理我這邊先跟兩位部會的這個長官同時來\n希望能夠針對於如果再有機廢棄物也好或者是處理廢棄物也好針對這個好的方式來解決這些廢棄物的話像目前我們知道黑水盲事實上呢是可以有提供很大的協助不知道這方面兩個部會將來有沒有好的規劃方式\n先跟委員報告就是就目前現有的這個部分因為目前在嘉義跟台南的地區尤其是文旦落果還有這個養殖餘溫的這個死亡的這個部分那確實在短期之內會造成非常多的這個\n這個必須要去去化這樣的一個過程那所以我們這個部分也跟嘉義縣政府縣市政府還有包括台南市政府這邊達成了這樣的一個溝通跟協調的工作那就是在過去在處理的時候一般來說的話我們的這個公部門的機具是比較少能夠進到這個養殖餘溫裡面去那但是因為這次死亡的這個量真的是確實太多了那所以公所這邊會用這個抓斗車的這個部分進到這個果園跟這個餘溫那邊\n協助這個農民把這些廢棄物清理到這個所謂的太空包或者是這個袋子裡面然後再送到化質廠去那減輕這個部分那第二個部分就是剛剛委員詢問有關於這個黑水盲的這個部分那事實上長久以來我們也一直在推動這樣的一個目標\n那所以在這個我們的這個相關的農業的這樣的一個場所裡面我們也有這樣的一個不管已經不是實驗性質而是實際在執行的這樣的一個工作以上\n好 非常謝謝我想最後一張是要還是再次感謝我們趙偉利用今天的這個相關的會議裡面讓我們知道其實中央政府各個機關真的都非常用心的在處理風災造成的對民眾不管是健康或者是生活上期待能夠透過大家的努力很快能夠克服這樣的困難台灣就是要做輪命啦\n這個都是要大家要互相的互相再努力我插播一下部長你就全方向全品位就不用條件就前面補助嘛農業是不是這樣\n我們現在持續的一直在公告當中所以說我們的部裡面在第一個時間裡面就針對大規模的區域還有品項目前已經主動的公告了六波就是涵蓋了九個縣市的這個相關品項的這個部分那像余溫的像嘉義跟台南的這個部分那因為余溫的養殖受到很大的這樣\n又受到停電的影響所以在餘溫養殖的那個部分我們是全品項免限刊已經在執行了那也跟委員報告\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.115 --> 00:01.275\n總流專家\n\n00:09.490 --> 00:32.421\n好謝謝我就根據這個剛剛林書恩委員提出這個問題其實大家最怕的失眠會致癌嘛那是一個一級的致癌物質沒錯不過那個是要長期曝露啦所以如果是一個民眾在短期像最近發生這樣的問題的話如果是長期曝露其實從那個致癌原理來看\n\n00:33.081 --> 00:50.373\n他的風險是有可是不是大家所擔心的就是說我現在今天因為有這個暴露的狀況我是不是一個禮拜一個月幾個幾年以後就會馬上有這個厲害那麼高的風險這個是可能要讓民眾放心啦大家不要想說我這樣是不是\n\n00:52.774 --> 01:18.588\n每次去中間就要造成一種生活上的困難或困擾這個其實民眾也可以從具有的科學知識來知道很多的致癌過程其實是跟我們的日常生活息息相關跟我們的這個建築物有一些關聯性可是也不要因為這個樣子過度恐慌造成不當的影響這個就先跟大家也做個說明跟報告那今天很謝謝我們這個\n\n01:23.431 --> 01:37.958\n召集今天這樣的會議謝謝我們蘇委員能夠讓大家都知道各個部會針對這次的風災造成的影響大家都盡努力趕快期待能夠讓國人\n\n01:39.159 --> 02:00.857\n能夠恢復正常的生活這個就是非常謝謝蘇少偉今天開這個相關委員會能夠讓國人知道大家努力的共同目標是在哪裡我還是先麻煩這個經濟部的次長先來討論一下這個這次風災造成的一些電網任性的部分市長好\n\n02:04.259 --> 02:19.417\n我們也知道這次造成的風災影響我本身住在嘉義端那個地方的營養很厲害很厲害我想跟這個趙偉一樣大家住在東南部都感受到這次颱風造成的影響\n\n02:20.878 --> 02:30.112\n看起來有100萬戶的用戶的這個用電受到影響到今天早上7點為止更新的最新消息還是有將近1300戶不完全好啦應該啦這兩天當然\n\n02:35.740 --> 03:02.969\n真的台電非常害怕大家也都很感動都了解說這個害怕真的是讓這個受災戶得到很好的影響那我們也很可惜就是有一位台電的員工就是因為在這個救災過程裡面希望能夠趕快讓用戶能夠可以有電可用結果造成了這個生命上的影響這個大家都覺得很不捨不過我們也看得出來這一次所受的影響裡面看起來都是電費條\n\n03:05.911 --> 03:23.727\n這電位條要倒幾百,大家都會覺得將來有可能要怎麼減輕這個電位條受到的影響因為我們看到高壓輸電線啊或者是那些固定好的相對比較穩固的機器,紅帶動員真厲害嘛這個有到這個17級的風這麼大的這個風可是如果說有好的這個處理方式將來\n\n03:31.434 --> 03:47.219\n是不是有機會減少這樣的這個影響因為我們看到就是另外上一次這麼厲害的就是在蘇迪樂的颱風那是10年前所以如果我們雖然是10年是很長的時間不過我們要來換算我們如何能夠讓這個電網的韌性\n\n03:51.360 --> 04:20.163\n可以在硬體上來加強的話那目前針對這次的颱風的經驗還是說用十年或者是幾年的這個經驗值來換的話那我們如果能夠針對這個電線感尤其是在比較寬闊像嘉南平原那種地方要怎樣有機會來減少類似這樣的影響不知道目前經濟部或者是台電這邊有沒有初步的一些想法或者是一些配套的措施\n\n04:20.954 --> 04:39.884\n首先跟委員報告台電的電網強固計畫大概編了10年5600億左右從分散強固部分來著手那近期年來台電所犯的這個電感大概是一級的電感它的耐風的這個等級的話比原來我們在鄉間或是偏遠地方\n\n04:41.805 --> 05:06.020\n設置的西級的電感它可以更耐風那除此之外的話比如說我們這次以興溫為例的話興溫有三個電塔倒塌了那若是我們可以分散電網的工作可以做更加的做的細緻的話它的影響的戶數就會比較少一點那當然除這個計畫之外我們最近在檢討裡面有發現說\n\n05:09.082 --> 05:36.539\n不管是區域的電網要分散化之外那是不是有一些的微電網可以改善或是搭配儲能或是社區關懷中心活動中心有一些既有已經匹配好的發電機或是儲能系統這樣子就可以來減少民眾生活的這個不便性那舉例來講我們這幾天拼命的掉非常多的發電機但是每一個地方每一個使用的那個\n\n05:38.180 --> 05:56.322\n它的系統不太一樣所以我們花了很長的時間去做匹配的工作因為假如匹配的不好它馬達會反轉它反而會整體可能是電力就失效可能造成搶修上面一個困難但是若是有儲能的系統搭配\n\n05:57.003 --> 06:08.449\n比如說像屋頂型有比較強固的屋頂型的太陽能光電系統的話那這樣子對於設置所在的這個民眾或社區的影響就會相對的降低\n\n06:08.999 --> 06:35.108\n所以這是系統性的部分還需要再做加強嘛是其實剛剛這個次長也有提到另外一個問題的就是說他很用心的希望能夠去加強我們這些光電板的使用來讓整體的用電可以有更為穩固可是我們看到的是說下一張很可惜啦因為大陸旁邊\n\n06:36.488 --> 07:01.003\n花了很多電可是自己竟然因為這樣的風災而沒辦法使用就像我們很多住在這個水庫旁邊結果出問題的時候呢反而沒水可用所以像這個89歲阿嬤她就非常可惜她住在七股區結果她那邊的面積1.1萬公頃裡面有三分之一左右將來會變成一個供電區已經開發了1100多公頃\n\n07:05.966 --> 07:20.244\n結果因為颱風夜他沒有電可以用結果他用了相關的一些方式來希望能夠用哪條燈火結果就發生了火災造成了悲劇\n\n07:21.546 --> 07:40.041\n那這個當然我們也希望那個社會安全的部分明天衛福部我們也希望能夠針對出現這樣的這個大的這個事故的時候怎麼樣去讓社會安全可以有機會來維持不過同樣的就是說這個住宅桌邊開發大面積的光電煤電可用這個\n\n07:42.463 --> 07:58.631\n為韌性的部分如何來加強不知道目前市長有沒有相關的一些訊息因為我們去了解其他國家如何優先開發光電區域來提升這個電網的韌性其實都有不同的做法日本啊或者是像歐盟\n\n07:59.611 --> 08:10.164\n澳洲等等不知道有沒有參考類似的國家針對這個周邊開發大面積的光點的地方如何能夠減少對水化品不最可用的這個窘境\n\n08:12.385 --> 08:16.227\n此次丹納斯颱風我們經過統計所有的電線桿搗斷了3,455根特別是在颱風侵襲的重災區包括我們嘉義跟北台南我們現在看到的電線桿幾乎都是台電的員工\n\n08:32.915 --> 08:54.694\n這幾天裡面所新述出來的那至於剛剛委員這張slide所提到的這個部分因為我們不管是從發電端它所發出來的電都是靠台電的這個電網系統來供應的那為了要改善這個問題達到委員所期待的這個目標它可能必須要搭配儲能的這個系統\n\n08:56.075 --> 09:19.837\n這個充能系統它可以有頻率的調整因為我們知道任何一個發電設施它的發電的時間跟頻率必須要有發電的時間會不太一樣如果是有這個配套的話它可以取代說台電的電網一旦有所破壞的時候它可以受到的這個影響會降到最低\n\n09:21.613 --> 09:47.645\n是好謝謝那就次長先請回座來請教一下彭部長部長我們可以說到目前這次包括台南嘉義有那麼多的這個光電板需要即時處理一共有14萬5千片約有2800公噸早上年年有報告說目前有四個機構四家可以來處理每一個月可以達到4400噸的這個處理的這個量能\n\n09:51.287 --> 09:55.730\n不過這個是普通是一鍋可以處理4400現在是兩天就要處理2800噸這個時間跟著時間在賽跑大家剛剛討論很多就是說這些東西你如果不趕快處理會不會對於土\n\n10:08.658 --> 10:29.948\n泥土的土壤的影響啊或是對於水質的影響等等的所以想要知道就是目前在這麼短的時間裡面這個量能如果他們是屬於全部都是在處理這些光電板的這個廠嗎還是說他們還有家長要處理其他的這些廢棄物那在量能上有沒有什麼要因應的部分\n\n10:30.428 --> 10:46.263\n報告委員我上禮拜六有去特別去看了廠就是這個處理的廠那他們當然啦原來的量沒那麼的多因為以前就沒有那麼多可以去處理那現在突然多了那麼多那我們是給他有一個許可量過去有一個許可量所以這個4400噸是我們給他的許可量\n\n10:49.325 --> 11:10.227\n現在我們會打開許可量他們也會答應全天候的加班來處理這個事情所以他們預估1.5個月1.5個月可以去化完成就是說我們前面的現場清理最多兩個禮拜然後後面希望1.5個月可以完成這個是我們目前掌握的訊息\n\n11:10.899 --> 11:31.808\n好希望到時候部長可以用心的去查核就是1.5個月到底能不能夠像他們所允諾的可以把它處理到一個比較完整的部分那早上也有提到說有關於在這個設置光電廠的時候需要繳交回收費用那目前我們依照這個回收費用100瓦的這個\n\n11:33.369 --> 11:48.017\n發電量需要繳交一千元的模組回收費可是那這個是分十年期來做回收嘛那現在針對天災受損的部分可能有一些是剛繳交一到兩年\n\n11:49.077 --> 12:06.523\n所以依照這個像嘉義所造成的影響他可能在109年才開始處理好所以他們實際上只有到目前為止只有繳交將近4到5年嘛未來目前這麼大的影響如何能夠讓這個費用可以\n\n12:09.185 --> 12:19.992\n確定他們會能夠繳納完成或者是之前有沒有沒有辦法如期繳交這個費用的部分不知道目前有沒有數據可以給大家做參考\n\n12:21.012 --> 12:40.557\n是這個目前是業者他要繳交他要分年度來繳交但是目前這個風災受損的部分還是他自己要去處理那未來他要逐步把這個費用再繳回來那我們現在是繳交的費用是一個大水庫他繳到我們能源發展基金來\n\n12:42.957 --> 13:07.950\n環境部這邊處理完之後他要的費用再跟我們申請但是這個責任都是在業者身上他現在沒有繳足的他還是要自己處理那未來他如果提前來繳交這個費用的話未來會從他整體的費用裡面扣足也就是說他有多少太陽能板他就是要處理多少那不夠的他要自己先行處理那未來他會再陸續繳交費用回來\n\n13:10.736 --> 13:29.645\n因為這個牽涉到兩個部會嘛包括經濟部還有環境部所以真的這個費用的繳交或者是如何能夠去做適當的管理這個我們會努力的來注意將來在這個費用處理上面是不是能夠依照我們當初所預期的可以得到很好的處理模式\n\n13:30.385 --> 13:47.366\n好謝謝再過來就是有關於這個4月廢棄物去化量的部分我想很多委員也都非常的關心包括廢棄物能不能再因為這個因應災後的需求我們這邊看到就是重創家人的同時其實新北環保隊真的非常的感心\n\n13:48.107 --> 14:13.140\n去協助處理了這個將近3000噸的廢棄物所以我想這個是中央可以調配還是說這是新北他們非常用心的去協助各個不同的縣市那我們看到八七彰化七八水災以後垃圾要三天裡面要這個清理4600噸相信如果能夠及時的去處理到的話對於環境的影響\n\n14:14.221 --> 14:36.423\n包括早上王一鳴有很擔心會不會因為這些廢棄物沒有及時清理好以後對於公共衛生造成的衝擊等等的那目前中央有沒有統籌如何能夠針對這個廢棄物去量化做一個適時的調配或者是如何能夠協助讓這個受災區域能夠盡速的去完成這樣的災後的處理模式\n\n14:37.714 --> 15:04.701\n這個我們要感謝各縣市通道一命環保局一起來幫助這幾個縣市那這個量的部分我請我們的署長來回應是委員所關心的嘉義縣這個部分到15號為止總共清除了6000公噸的量那截至目前為止就採分流的方式那這個可以焚燒的因為這個可以調度到焚化廠裡面那其他有些樹枝暫時\n\n15:06.361 --> 15:19.929\n還很潮濕的就先到一些掩埋場先暫置做一個處理之後再回到這個文化場裡面或其他管道裡面那大的木材是可以飆售的這個同時再做\n\n15:23.331 --> 15:46.227\n這個是事業廢棄物也好或者是最新的風災帶來廢棄物廢棄物也好這個大家可以共同像剛剛講的同島一命嘛大概就會來處理不過我們要麻煩這個農業部市長是不是也可以同時告訴我們一下這邊的農業也是影響很大包括我們所擔心的這個文旦一下子全部都被\n\n15:48.568 --> 16:09.239\n這個風災簽完了嘛還有很多相關的這個農業如果因為這次風災造成的這種果實掉落或其他相關的廢棄物的影響包括廚餘如果在這個風災裡面是不是也因為受到這個量能的排擠有沒有一個新的方式或者是好的方式來處理我這邊先跟兩位部會的這個長官同時來\n\n16:11.520 --> 16:29.182\n希望能夠針對於如果再有機廢棄物也好或者是處理廢棄物也好針對這個好的方式來解決這些廢棄物的話像目前我們知道黑水盲事實上呢是可以有提供很大的協助不知道這方面兩個部會將來有沒有好的規劃方式\n\n16:30.803 --> 16:44.835\n先跟委員報告就是就目前現有的這個部分因為目前在嘉義跟台南的地區尤其是文旦落果還有這個養殖餘溫的這個死亡的這個部分那確實在短期之內會造成非常多的這個\n\n16:46.135 --> 17:09.491\n這個必須要去去化這樣的一個過程那所以我們這個部分也跟嘉義縣政府縣市政府還有包括台南市政府這邊達成了這樣的一個溝通跟協調的工作那就是在過去在處理的時候一般來說的話我們的這個公部門的機具是比較少能夠進到這個養殖餘溫裡面去那但是因為這次死亡的這個量真的是確實太多了那所以公所這邊會用這個抓斗車的這個部分進到這個果園跟這個餘溫那邊\n\n17:14.974 --> 17:35.052\n協助這個農民把這些廢棄物清理到這個所謂的太空包或者是這個袋子裡面然後再送到化質廠去那減輕這個部分那第二個部分就是剛剛委員詢問有關於這個黑水盲的這個部分那事實上長久以來我們也一直在推動這樣的一個目標\n\n17:35.712 --> 17:46.305\n那所以在這個我們的這個相關的農業的這樣的一個場所裡面我們也有這樣的一個不管已經不是實驗性質而是實際在執行的這樣的一個工作以上\n\n17:47.045 --> 18:11.738\n好非常謝謝我想最後一張是要還是再次感謝我們趙偉利用今天的這個相關的會議裡面讓我們知道其實中央政府各個機關真的都非常用心的在處理風災造成的對民眾不管是健康或者是生活上期待能夠透過大家的努力很快能夠克服這樣的困難台灣就是要做輪命啦\n\n18:12.678 --> 18:31.383\n這個都是要大家要互相的互相再努力我插播一下部長你就全方向全品位就不用條件就前面補助嘛農業是不是這樣\n\n18:34.096 --> 19:00.279\n我們現在持續的一直在公告當中所以說我們的部裡面在第一個時間裡面就針對大規模的區域還有品項目前已經主動的公告了六波就是涵蓋了九個縣市的這個相關品項的這個部分那像余溫的像嘉義跟台南的這個部分那因為余溫的養殖受到很大的這樣\n\n19:01.279 --> 19:07.244\n又受到停電的影響所以在餘溫養殖的那個部分我們是全品項免限刊已經在執行了那也跟委員報告\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.115,"end":1.275,"text":"總流專家"},{"start":9.49,"end":32.421,"text":"好 謝謝我就根據這個剛剛林書恩委員提出這個問題其實大家最怕的失眠會致癌嘛那是一個一級的致癌物質沒錯不過那個是要長期曝露啦所以如果是一個民眾在短期像最近發生這樣的問題的話如果是長期曝露其實從那個致癌原理來看"},{"start":33.081,"end":50.373,"text":"他的風險是有可是不是大家所擔心的就是說我現在今天因為有這個暴露的狀況我是不是一個禮拜一個月幾個幾年以後就會馬上有這個厲害那麼高的風險這個是可能要讓民眾放心啦大家不要想說我這樣是不是"},{"start":52.774,"end":78.588,"text":"每次去中間就要造成一種生活上的困難或困擾這個其實民眾也可以從具有的科學知識來知道很多的致癌過程其實是跟我們的日常生活息息相關跟我們的這個建築物有一些關聯性可是也不要因為這個樣子過度恐慌造成不當的影響這個就先跟大家也做個說明跟報告那今天很謝謝我們這個"},{"start":83.431,"end":97.958,"text":"召集今天這樣的會議謝謝我們蘇委員能夠讓大家都知道各個部會針對這次的風災造成的影響大家都盡努力趕快期待能夠讓國人"},{"start":99.159,"end":120.857,"text":"能夠恢復正常的生活這個就是非常謝謝蘇少偉今天開這個相關委員會能夠讓國人知道大家努力的共同目標是在哪裡我還是先麻煩這個經濟部的次長先來討論一下這個這次風災造成的一些電網任性的部分市長好"},{"start":124.259,"end":139.417,"text":"我們也知道這次造成的風災影響我本身住在嘉義端那個地方的營養很厲害很厲害我想跟這個趙偉一樣大家住在東南部都感受到這次颱風造成的影響"},{"start":140.878,"end":150.112,"text":"看起來有100萬戶的用戶的這個用電受到影響到今天早上7點為止更新的最新消息還是有將近1300戶不完全好啦應該啦 這兩天當然"},{"start":155.74,"end":182.969,"text":"真的台電非常害怕大家也都很感動都了解說這個害怕真的是讓這個受災戶得到很好的影響那我們也很可惜就是有一位台電的員工就是因為在這個救災過程裡面希望能夠趕快讓用戶能夠可以有電可用結果造成了這個生命上的影響這個大家都覺得很不捨不過我們也看得出來這一次所受的影響裡面看起來都是電費條"},{"start":185.911,"end":203.727,"text":"這電位條要倒幾百,大家都會覺得將來有可能要怎麼減輕這個電位條受到的影響因為我們看到高壓輸電線啊或者是那些固定好的相對比較穩固的機器,紅帶動員真厲害嘛這個有到這個17級的風這麼大的這個風可是如果說有好的這個處理方式將來"},{"start":211.434,"end":227.219,"text":"是不是有機會減少這樣的這個影響因為我們看到就是另外上一次這麼厲害的就是在蘇迪樂的颱風那是10年前所以如果我們雖然是10年是很長的時間不過我們要來換算我們如何能夠讓這個電網的韌性"},{"start":231.36,"end":260.163,"text":"可以在硬體上來加強的話那目前針對這次的颱風的經驗還是說用十年或者是幾年的這個經驗值來換的話那我們如果能夠針對這個電線感尤其是在比較寬闊像嘉南平原那種地方要怎樣有機會來減少類似這樣的影響不知道目前經濟部或者是台電這邊有沒有初步的一些想法或者是一些配套的措施"},{"start":260.954,"end":279.884,"text":"首先跟委員報告台電的電網強固計畫大概編了10年5600億左右從分散強固部分來著手那近期年來台電所犯的這個電感大概是一級的電感它的耐風的這個等級的話比原來我們在鄉間或是偏遠地方"},{"start":281.805,"end":306.02,"text":"設置的西級的電感它可以更耐風那除此之外的話比如說我們這次以興溫為例的話興溫有三個電塔倒塌了那若是我們可以分散電網的工作可以做更加的做的細緻的話它的影響的戶數就會比較少一點那當然除這個計畫之外我們最近在檢討裡面有發現說"},{"start":309.082,"end":336.539,"text":"不管是區域的電網要分散化之外那是不是有一些的微電網可以改善或是搭配儲能或是社區關懷中心活動中心有一些既有已經匹配好的發電機或是儲能系統這樣子就可以來減少民眾生活的這個不便性那舉例來講我們這幾天拼命的掉非常多的發電機但是每一個地方每一個使用的那個"},{"start":338.18,"end":356.322,"text":"它的系統不太一樣所以我們花了很長的時間去做匹配的工作因為假如匹配的不好它馬達會反轉它反而會整體可能是電力就失效可能造成搶修上面一個困難但是若是有儲能的系統搭配"},{"start":357.003,"end":368.449,"text":"比如說像屋頂型有比較強固的屋頂型的太陽能光電系統的話那這樣子對於設置所在的這個民眾或社區的影響就會相對的降低"},{"start":368.999,"end":395.108,"text":"所以這是系統性的部分還需要再做加強嘛是其實剛剛這個次長也有提到另外一個問題的就是說他很用心的希望能夠去加強我們這些光電板的使用來讓整體的用電可以有更為穩固可是我們看到的是說下一張很可惜啦因為大陸旁邊"},{"start":396.488,"end":421.003,"text":"花了很多電 可是自己竟然因為這樣的風災而沒辦法使用就像我們很多住在這個水庫旁邊結果出問題的時候呢 反而沒水可用所以像這個89歲阿嬤她就非常可惜她住在七股區結果她那邊的面積1.1萬公頃裡面有三分之一左右將來會變成一個供電區已經開發了1100多公頃"},{"start":425.966,"end":440.244,"text":"結果因為颱風夜他沒有電可以用結果他用了相關的一些方式來希望能夠用哪條燈火結果就發生了火災造成了悲劇"},{"start":441.546,"end":460.041,"text":"那這個當然我們也希望那個社會安全的部分明天衛福部我們也希望能夠針對出現這樣的這個大的這個事故的時候怎麼樣去讓社會安全可以有機會來維持不過同樣的就是說這個住宅桌邊開發大面積的光電煤電可用這個"},{"start":462.463,"end":478.631,"text":"為韌性的部分如何來加強不知道目前市長有沒有相關的一些訊息因為我們去了解其他國家如何優先開發光電區域來提升這個電網的韌性其實都有不同的做法日本啊或者是像歐盟"},{"start":479.611,"end":490.164,"text":"澳洲等等不知道有沒有參考類似的國家針對這個周邊開發大面積的光點的地方如何能夠減少對水化品不最可用的這個窘境"},{"start":492.385,"end":496.227,"text":"此次丹納斯颱風我們經過統計所有的電線桿搗斷了3,455根特別是在颱風侵襲的重災區包括我們嘉義跟北台南我們現在看到的電線桿幾乎都是台電的員工"},{"start":512.915,"end":534.694,"text":"這幾天裡面所新述出來的那至於剛剛委員這張slide所提到的這個部分因為我們不管是從發電端它所發出來的電都是靠台電的這個電網系統來供應的那為了要改善這個問題達到委員所期待的這個目標它可能必須要搭配儲能的這個系統"},{"start":536.075,"end":559.837,"text":"這個充能系統它可以有頻率的調整因為我們知道任何一個發電設施它的發電的時間跟頻率必須要有發電的時間會不太一樣如果是有這個配套的話它可以取代說台電的電網一旦有所破壞的時候它可以受到的這個影響會降到最低"},{"start":561.613,"end":587.645,"text":"是好謝謝那就次長先請回座來請教一下彭部長部長我們可以說到目前這次包括台南嘉義有那麼多的這個光電板需要即時處理一共有14萬5千片約有2800公噸早上年年有報告說目前有四個機構四家可以來處理每一個月可以達到4400噸的這個處理的這個量能"},{"start":591.287,"end":595.73,"text":"不過這個是普通是一鍋可以處理4400現在是兩天就要處理2800噸這個時間跟著時間在賽跑大家剛剛討論很多就是說這些東西你如果不趕快處理會不會對於土"},{"start":608.658,"end":629.948,"text":"泥土的土壤的影響啊或是對於水質的影響等等的所以想要知道就是目前在這麼短的時間裡面這個量能如果他們是屬於全部都是在處理這些光電板的這個廠嗎還是說他們還有家長要處理其他的這些廢棄物那在量能上有沒有什麼要因應的部分"},{"start":630.428,"end":646.263,"text":"報告委員我上禮拜六有去特別去看了廠就是這個處理的廠那他們當然啦原來的量沒那麼的多因為以前就沒有那麼多可以去處理那現在突然多了那麼多那我們是給他有一個許可量過去有一個許可量所以這個4400噸是我們給他的許可量"},{"start":649.325,"end":670.227,"text":"現在我們會打開許可量他們也會答應全天候的加班來處理這個事情所以他們預估1.5個月1.5個月可以去化完成就是說我們前面的現場清理最多兩個禮拜然後後面希望1.5個月可以完成這個是我們目前掌握的訊息"},{"start":670.899,"end":691.808,"text":"好 希望到時候部長可以用心的去查核就是1.5個月到底能不能夠像他們所允諾的可以把它處理到一個比較完整的部分那早上也有提到說有關於在這個設置光電廠的時候需要繳交回收費用那目前我們依照這個回收費用100瓦的這個"},{"start":693.369,"end":708.017,"text":"發電量需要繳交一千元的模組回收費可是那這個是分十年期來做回收嘛那現在針對天災受損的部分可能有一些是剛繳交一到兩年"},{"start":709.077,"end":726.523,"text":"所以依照這個像嘉義所造成的影響他可能在109年才開始處理好所以他們實際上只有到目前為止只有繳交將近4到5年嘛未來目前這麼大的影響如何能夠讓這個費用可以"},{"start":729.185,"end":739.992,"text":"確定他們會能夠繳納完成或者是之前有沒有沒有辦法如期繳交這個費用的部分不知道目前有沒有數據可以給大家做參考"},{"start":741.012,"end":760.557,"text":"是 這個目前是業者他要繳交 他要分年度來繳交但是目前這個風災受損的部分還是他自己要去處理那未來他要逐步把這個費用再繳回來那我們現在是繳交的費用是一個大水庫他繳到我們能源發展基金來"},{"start":762.957,"end":787.95,"text":"環境部這邊處理完之後他要的費用再跟我們申請但是這個責任都是在業者身上他現在沒有繳足的他還是要自己處理那未來他如果提前來繳交這個費用的話未來會從他整體的費用裡面扣足也就是說他有多少太陽能板他就是要處理多少那不夠的他要自己先行處理那未來他會再陸續繳交費用回來"},{"start":790.736,"end":809.645,"text":"因為這個牽涉到兩個部會嘛包括經濟部還有環境部所以真的這個費用的繳交或者是如何能夠去做適當的管理這個我們會努力的來注意將來在這個費用處理上面是不是能夠依照我們當初所預期的可以得到很好的處理模式"},{"start":810.385,"end":827.366,"text":"好 謝謝再過來就是有關於這個4月廢棄物去化量的部分我想很多委員也都非常的關心包括廢棄物能不能再因為這個因應災後的需求我們這邊看到就是重創家人的同時其實新北環保隊真的非常的感心"},{"start":828.107,"end":853.14,"text":"去協助處理了這個將近3000噸的廢棄物所以我想這個是中央可以調配還是說這是新北他們非常用心的去協助各個不同的縣市那我們看到八七彰化七八水災以後垃圾要三天裡面要這個清理4600噸相信如果能夠及時的去處理到的話對於環境的影響"},{"start":854.221,"end":876.423,"text":"包括早上王一鳴有很擔心會不會因為這些廢棄物沒有及時清理好以後對於公共衛生造成的衝擊等等的那目前中央有沒有統籌如何能夠針對這個廢棄物去量化做一個適時的調配或者是如何能夠協助讓這個受災區域能夠盡速的去完成這樣的災後的處理模式"},{"start":877.714,"end":904.701,"text":"這個我們要感謝各縣市通道一命環保局一起來幫助這幾個縣市那這個量的部分我請我們的署長來回應是委員所關心的嘉義縣這個部分到15號為止總共清除了6000公噸的量那截至目前為止就採分流的方式那這個可以焚燒的因為這個可以調度到焚化廠裡面那其他有些樹枝暫時"},{"start":906.361,"end":919.929,"text":"還很潮濕的就先到一些掩埋場先暫置做一個處理之後再回到這個文化場裡面或其他管道裡面那大的木材是可以飆售的這個同時再做"},{"start":923.331,"end":946.227,"text":"這個是事業廢棄物也好或者是最新的風災帶來廢棄物廢棄物也好這個大家可以共同像剛剛講的同島一命嘛大概就會來處理不過我們要麻煩這個農業部市長是不是也可以同時告訴我們一下這邊的農業也是影響很大包括我們所擔心的這個文旦一下子全部都被"},{"start":948.568,"end":969.239,"text":"這個風災簽完了嘛還有很多相關的這個農業如果因為這次風災造成的這種果實掉落或其他相關的廢棄物的影響包括廚餘如果在這個風災裡面是不是也因為受到這個量能的排擠有沒有一個新的方式或者是好的方式來處理我這邊先跟兩位部會的這個長官同時來"},{"start":971.52,"end":989.182,"text":"希望能夠針對於如果再有機廢棄物也好或者是處理廢棄物也好針對這個好的方式來解決這些廢棄物的話像目前我們知道黑水盲事實上呢是可以有提供很大的協助不知道這方面兩個部會將來有沒有好的規劃方式"},{"start":990.803,"end":1004.835,"text":"先跟委員報告就是就目前現有的這個部分因為目前在嘉義跟台南的地區尤其是文旦落果還有這個養殖餘溫的這個死亡的這個部分那確實在短期之內會造成非常多的這個"},{"start":1006.135,"end":1029.491,"text":"這個必須要去去化這樣的一個過程那所以我們這個部分也跟嘉義縣政府縣市政府還有包括台南市政府這邊達成了這樣的一個溝通跟協調的工作那就是在過去在處理的時候一般來說的話我們的這個公部門的機具是比較少能夠進到這個養殖餘溫裡面去那但是因為這次死亡的這個量真的是確實太多了那所以公所這邊會用這個抓斗車的這個部分進到這個果園跟這個餘溫那邊"},{"start":1034.974,"end":1055.052,"text":"協助這個農民把這些廢棄物清理到這個所謂的太空包或者是這個袋子裡面然後再送到化質廠去那減輕這個部分那第二個部分就是剛剛委員詢問有關於這個黑水盲的這個部分那事實上長久以來我們也一直在推動這樣的一個目標"},{"start":1055.712,"end":1066.305,"text":"那所以在這個我們的這個相關的農業的這樣的一個場所裡面我們也有這樣的一個不管已經不是實驗性質而是實際在執行的這樣的一個工作以上"},{"start":1067.045,"end":1091.738,"text":"好 非常謝謝我想最後一張是要還是再次感謝我們趙偉利用今天的這個相關的會議裡面讓我們知道其實中央政府各個機關真的都非常用心的在處理風災造成的對民眾不管是健康或者是生活上期待能夠透過大家的努力很快能夠克服這樣的困難台灣就是要做輪命啦"},{"start":1092.678,"end":1111.383,"text":"這個都是要大家要互相的互相再努力我插播一下部長你就全方向全品位就不用條件就前面補助嘛農業是不是這樣"},{"start":1114.096,"end":1140.279,"text":"我們現在持續的一直在公告當中所以說我們的部裡面在第一個時間裡面就針對大規模的區域還有品項目前已經主動的公告了六波就是涵蓋了九個縣市的這個相關品項的這個部分那像余溫的像嘉義跟台南的這個部分那因為余溫的養殖受到很大的這樣"},{"start":1141.279,"end":1147.244,"text":"又受到停電的影響所以在餘溫養殖的那個部分我們是全品項免限刊已經在執行了那也跟委員報告"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1060,"blocks":[["王委員正旭：（12時7分）謝謝。我就根據剛剛林淑芬委員提出的問題，其實大家最怕的就是石綿會致癌，那是一級致癌物質沒錯，不過那個是要長期暴露啦！所以如果是一個民眾在短期，像最近發生這樣的問題的話，他如果是短期暴露，從致癌原理來看風險是有，可是並不是大家所擔心的因為現在有這個暴露的狀況，是不是一個禮拜、一個月、幾年以後就馬上會有那麼高的罹癌風險？這個可能要讓民眾放心，大家不要想，糟了，這樣是不是馬上就會得到癌症，而造成一種生活上的困難或困擾，民眾其實可以從既有的科學知識知道，很多致癌過程是跟我們日常生活息息相關、跟我們的建築物有一些關聯性，可是也不要因為這樣子過度恐慌，造成不當的影響，這個先跟大家做個說明跟報告。","今天很謝謝召集今天這樣的會議，謝謝蘇委員能夠讓大家都知道各個部會針對這次風災造成的影響所做的應變，大家都很努力，期待趕快讓國人能夠恢復正常的生活，非常謝謝蘇召委今天開這個相關的委員會，能夠讓國人知道大家努力的共同目標是在哪裡。","我還是先麻煩經濟部賴次長，先來討論一下這次風災造成一些電網韌性的部分。"],["賴次長建信：委員好。"],["王委員正旭：次長好。我們也知道這次風災造成的影響，我本身住在嘉義大林，那個地方受到的影響確實很厲害、很厲害，我跟召委一樣，大家住在中南部的都感受到這次颱風造成的影響，看起來有100萬戶用電受到影響，到今天早上7點為止更新的最新消息，還是有將近1,300戶還沒有完全好。這兩天台電真的非常努力，大家也都說得很「感心」，大家都了解他們的努力真的讓受災戶得到很好的改善，但是也很可惜，有一位台電員工因為在救災過程希望趕快讓用戶能夠有電可用，結果造成了生命上的影響，這個大家都覺得很不捨。","不過我們也看得出來，在這次所受的影響裡面，看起來都是電線桿，電線桿倒了一整排，大家都覺得將來有沒有可能減輕電線桿受到的影響？因為我們看到高壓輸電線，或者是那些固定好相對比較穩固的，颱風當然很嚴重，風力有到17級，這麼大的風，可是如果有好的處理方式，將來是不是有機會減少這樣的影響？我們看到上一次這麼厲害的是蘇迪勒颱風，那是在10年前，雖然10年是很長的時間，但是我們如果換算，如何能夠讓電網韌性可以在硬體上加強的話，針對這次颱風的經驗，若是用10年或者是幾年經驗值來換的話，我們如何能夠針對電線桿，尤其是在比較寬闊像嘉南平原那種地方，要怎麼有機會減少類似這樣的影響？不知道目前經濟部或者是台電有沒有初步的一些想法，或者是一些配套的措施？"],["賴次長建信：首先跟委員報告，台電的電網強固計畫大概編了10年5,600億左右，從分散、強固部分來著手，近幾年來台電所換的電桿大概都是E級的電桿，它的耐風等級比原來在鄉間或是偏遠地方所設置的C級電桿可以更耐風。除此之外，這次我們以新塭為例的話，新塭有3個電塔倒塌，若是我們分散電網的工作可以做得更加細緻的話，它影響的戶數就會比較少一點。當然除這個計畫之外，我們最近在檢討裡面有發現，除了區域的電網要分散化之外，是不是有一些微電網可以改善，或是搭配儲能，或是社區關懷中心、活動中心有一些既有已經匹配好的發電機或是儲能系統？這樣子就可以減少民眾生活的不便性。舉例來講，這幾天我們拚命調了非常多發電機，但是每一個地方使用的系統都不太一樣，所以我們花了很長的時間去做匹配的工作，因為只要匹配得不好，馬達會反轉，反而整體電力可能就會失效，可能造成搶修上面會有困難。但是若有儲能的系統搭配，比如說有比較強固的屋頂型太陽能光電系統的話，這樣子對於設置所在的民眾或社區的影響就會相對降低。"],["王委員正旭：所以這是系統性的部分還需要再做加強，聽起來就是這樣嘛！"],["賴次長建信：是。"],["王委員正旭：OK！其實剛剛次長也有提到另外一個問題，就是他很用心希望能夠加強這些光電板的使用，讓整體用電可以更為穩固。可是我們看到的是，很可惜，他就住在旁邊，發了很多電，可是自己竟然因為這樣的風災而沒辦法使用，這就好像住在水庫旁邊，結果出問題的時候反而沒水可用。像這個89歲的阿嬤就非常可惜，他們住在七股區，那邊1.1萬公頃的面積裡面有三分之一左右將來會變成一個光電區，其中已經開發了一千一百多公頃，結果因為颱風夜沒有電可以用，他就用蠟燭點火，結果就發生了火災，造成了悲劇！有關社會安全的部分，明天我們會邀請衛福部，希望能夠針對出現這樣大的事故的時候，怎麼樣讓社會安全可以有機會維持。同樣的，住宅周邊開發了大面積光電，結果卻沒電可用，在微韌性的部分要如何加強？不知道次長目前有沒有相關的一些訊息？因為我們去了解其他國家如何優先開發光電區域提升電網的韌性，其實都有不同的作法，包括日本，或者是歐盟、澳洲等等，不知道有沒有參考類似的國家，針對周邊開發大面積光電的地方，如何能夠減少住在水庫旁邊沒水可用的窘境？"],["賴次長建信：此次颱風，我們經過統計，所有電線桿倒、斷了3,455根，特別是在颱風侵襲的重災區，包括嘉義跟臺南，我們現在看到的電線桿幾乎都是台電員工在這幾天裡面新豎起來的。至於剛剛委員這張slide所提到的這個部分，因為從發電端所發出來的電都是靠台電的電網系統供應的，為了要改善這個問題，達到委員所期待的目標，它可能必須要搭配儲能系統，而這個儲能系統可以有頻率的調整，因為我們知道任何一個發電設施發電的時間會不太一樣，若是有這個配套的話就可以取代，當台電的電網一旦有所破壞的時候，它所受到的影響就會降到最低。"],["王委員正旭：好，謝謝。次長先請回座。"],["賴次長建信：好，謝謝委員。"],["王委員正旭：我請教一下彭部長。部長，早上我們有講到目前包括臺南、嘉義有那麼多光電板需要及時處理，一共有14萬5,000片，有2,800公噸。早上您也報告目前有4個機構可以來處理，每月可以達到4,400噸的處理量能，不過平常一個月可以處理4,400噸，現在是兩天就要處理2,800噸，這個跟時間在賽跑，大家剛剛討論很多，就是這些東西如果不趕快處理，會不會對於土壤或水質造成影響等等？所以想要知道目前在這麼短的時間裡面，他們這個量能是屬於全部都在處理這些光電板嗎？還是他們還有夾雜要處理其他的廢棄物？在量能上有沒有什麼要因應的部分？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我上禮拜六有特別去看這個處理廠，當然他們原來的量沒那麼多，因為以前沒有那麼多可以處理，現在突然多了那麼多，我們過去有給它一個許可量，所以4,400噸是我們給它的許可量，現在我們會打開許可量，他們也答應會全天候加班處理這個事情，所以他們預估1個半月可以去化完成，所以前面的現場清理最多兩個禮拜；後面的希望1.5個月可以完成，這是目前我們掌握的訊息。"],["王委員正旭：好，希望到時候部長可以用心地去查核，就是到底能不能夠像他們所允諾的，1.5個月可以把它處理到比較完整。"],["彭部長啓明：好。"],["王委員正旭：早上也有提到有關於在設置光電場的時候需要繳交回收費用，目前依照規定，1,000瓦發電量需要繳交1,000元模組回收費，可是這是分十年期做回收，現在針對天災受損的部分，可能有一些剛繳交一到兩年，所以像嘉義所受到的影響，它可能在109年才開始處理好，到目前為止他們事實上只有繳交將近四到五年，目前受到這麼大的影響，如何可以確定這個費用他們能夠繳納完成，或者是之前沒有辦法如期繳交費用的部分，不知道目前有沒有數據可以給大家做參考？"],["李代理署長君禮：是，目前是業者要分年度繳交，但是目前風災受損的部分，還是它自己要去處理，未來它就逐步把回收費用繳回來。我們現在繳交的費用是一個大水庫，他們繳到能源發展基金，先由環境部處理完之後，將所要的費用跟我們申請，但是責任都是在業者身上。它現在沒有繳足的部分，還是要自己處理，如果它提前繳交這個費用的話，未來會從它整體的費用裡面扣除，也就是說它有多少太陽能板，就要處理多少，不夠的部分它要自己先行處理，未來它再陸續繳交費用回來。"],["王委員正旭：因為這個牽涉到兩個部會，包括經濟部，還有環境部，所以針對這個費用的繳交或如何能夠做適當的管理，我們會努力地注意，將來在這個費用處理上面是不是能夠依照我們當初所預期的，可以得到很好的處理模式，謝謝。","再過來，有關於事業廢棄物去化量能的部分，我想很多委員也都非常關心，包括廢棄物處理能不能因應災後的需求。我們看到颱風重創嘉南的同時，其實新北環保隊真的非常地「感心」，協助處理將近3,000噸廢棄物，所以我想這是中央可以調配，還是新北環保隊非常用心地協助各個不同的縣市？我們看到彰化七八水災以後，3天要清理垃圾4,600噸，相信如果能夠及時去處理的話，對於環境的影響，包括早上王育敏委員也很擔心會不會因為沒有及時清理這些廢棄物，以後對於公共衛生造成衝擊等等。目前中央有沒有統籌如何針對廢棄物去化量做一個適時的調配？或者是如何協助受災區能夠儘速完成災後的處理模式？"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。我們要感謝各縣市同島一命，環保局一起幫助這幾個縣市，量的部分，我請署長來回應。"],["顏署長旭明：是，委員關心嘉義縣的部分，到15號為止總共清出6,000公噸的量，截至目前為止採分流的方式，可以焚燒的，可以調度到焚化廠裡面；其他有些樹枝還很潮溼的，先暫置到掩埋場做一些處理之後，再回到焚化廠或其他管道裡面；大的木材是可以標售的，也有同時在做。"],["王委員正旭：好，不管事業廢棄物也好，或是這次因為風災帶來的廢棄物也好，大家可以共同像剛剛講的同島一命，大家一起來處理。不過，我們要麻煩農業部次長，是不是也可以同時告訴我們，這次對農業也是影響很大，包括我們所擔心的文旦一下子全部都被風災吹落了，還有很多相關的農業。如果因為這次風災造成的果實掉落，或其他相關的廢棄物，包括廚餘，處理的量能是不是也會受到的排擠，有沒有一個新的或好的方式來處理？我同時希望兩位部會長官針對不管是有機廢棄物也好，或廚餘廢棄物也好，能夠採用好的方式來解決這些廢棄物的話，像目前我們知道的黑水虻，事實上是可以提供很大的協助。不知道這方面兩個部會將來有沒有好的規劃方式？"],["黃次長昭欽：先跟委員報告，就現有的部分，因為目前在嘉義跟臺南地區，尤其是文旦落果還有養殖魚塭死亡的部分，確實在短期之內造成非常多必須要去化的過程，所以這個部分我們也跟嘉義縣市政府、臺南市政府達成一個溝通跟協調的工作。一般來說過去在處理的時候，公部門的機具是比較少能夠進到養殖魚塭裡面，但是因為這次死亡的量確實太多了，所以公所會使用抓斗車進到果園跟魚塭，協助農漁民把這些廢棄物清理到所謂的太空包袋子裡面，再送到化製廠，以減輕這個部分的負擔；第二個部分，就是剛剛委員詢問有關於黑水虻的部分，事實上長久以來，我們也一直在推動這樣的目標，所以在相關農業場所裡面，我們也有這樣一個……已經不是實驗性質，而是持續在執行的工作，以上。"],["王委員正旭：好，非常謝謝。我想最後還是再次感謝我們召委，利用今天相關會議讓我們知道，其實中央政府、各個機關真的都非常用心地在處理風災造成民眾不管是健康或生活上的影響，期待透過大家的努力能夠很快克服這樣的困難，臺灣就是要很有韌性，都是要大家互相的……"],["主席：有韌性也要認命啦！"],["王委員正旭：是，如果有缺東西，大家互相再努力，謝謝各位。"],["主席：我插播一下，次長，你就全方向、全品項，不用條件就全面補助嘛，農業是不是這樣？"],["黃次長昭欽：我們目前一直持續地在公告當中，所以部裡面在第一個時間就針對大規模的區域還有品項，目前已經主動公告了6波，就是涵蓋了9個縣市的相關品項，像嘉義跟臺南的部分，因為魚塭養殖受到很大風災跟停電的影響，所以在魚塭養殖的部分，我們是全品項、免現勘，已經在執行補助了，也跟委員報告。"],["主席：魚塭如果停電、水車不走，這些魚都會缺氧死的，那就要全面補助，不然這怎麼撐得住。好，謝謝部長、次長。","再來請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":238,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-20","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","涂權吉","陳菁徽","黃秀芳","林淑芬","王正旭","黃國昌","楊曜","陳培瑜","劉建國","陳冠廷","陳瑩","盧縣一","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":145,"meetingDate":["2025-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第20次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請環境部部長、經濟部部長、海洋委員會、農業部、內政部、國防部、金融監督管理委員會針\n對「光電設施對環境影響情形」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00003"}}}