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{\"word\": \"護\"}, {\"word\": \"令\", \"start\": 210.653, \"end\": 210.753, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 210.753, \"end\": 210.853, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"空\", \"start\": 210.853, \"end\": 211.093, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"窗\", \"start\": 211.093, \"end\": 211.393, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 211.393, \"end\": 211.833, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 211.833, \"end\": 211.953, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 211.953, \"end\": 212.073, \"score\": 0.573}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"新\", \"start\": 212.073, \"end\": 212.233, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 212.233, \"end\": 212.353, \"score\": 0.605}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 212.353, \"end\": 212.493, \"score\": 0.615}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 212.493, \"end\": 212.634, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 212.634, \"end\": 212.754, \"score\": 0.724}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 212.754, \"end\": 212.894, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 212.894, \"end\": 212.974, \"score\": 0.74}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 212.974, \"end\": 213.094, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 213.094, \"end\": 213.154, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 213.154, \"end\": 213.334, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 213.334, \"end\": 213.354, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"說\"}]}, {\"start\": 214.034, \"end\": 243.11, \"text\": \"還有相關人員的知能跟敏感度甚至我都會說這個相關人員其實還包含這個孩子的媽媽因為媽媽在通報的時候其實沒有通報說孩子有受虐跟受到家暴的情況所以這裡的相關人員我甚至還想提到的是被害人本身他們意識到他的孩子也需要求助第二個是化室的槍殺案這個女子她拒絕保護令所以我們認為這裡的問題可能潛在的問題是其實資源有到位了大家也都知道要投入\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 214.034, \"end\": 214.154, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 214.154, \"end\": 214.494, \"score\": 0.762}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 214.494, \"end\": 214.714, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 214.714, \"end\": 214.895, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 214.895, \"end\": 215.095, \"score\": 0.794}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 215.095, \"end\": 215.275, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 215.275, \"end\": 215.415, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": \"敏\", \"start\": 215.415, \"end\": 215.635, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 215.635, \"end\": 215.875, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 215.875, \"end\": 216.095, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 216.095, \"end\": 216.355, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 216.355, \"end\": 216.495, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 216.495, \"end\": 216.676, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 216.676, \"end\": 217.376, \"score\": 0.695}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 217.376, \"end\": 217.676, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 217.676, \"end\": 217.936, \"score\": 0.869}, 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237.207, \"end\": 237.967, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 237.967, \"end\": 238.607, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 238.607, \"end\": 238.747, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 238.747, \"end\": 239.048, \"score\": 0.71}, {\"word\": \"潛\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 239.048, \"end\": 239.208, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 239.208, \"end\": 239.648, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 239.648, \"end\": 240.028, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 240.028, \"end\": 240.488, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"源\", \"start\": 240.488, \"end\": 240.608, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 240.608, \"end\": 240.789, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 240.789, \"end\": 240.969, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 240.969, \"end\": 241.189, \"score\": 0.66}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 241.189, \"end\": 241.969, \"score\": 0.729}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 241.969, \"end\": 242.109, \"score\": 0.629}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 242.109, \"end\": 242.229, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 242.229, \"end\": 242.289, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 242.289, \"end\": 242.429, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 242.429, \"end\": 242.529, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"道\", \"start\": 242.529, \"end\": 242.67, \"score\": 0.716}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 242.67, \"end\": 242.87, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 242.87, \"end\": 243.09, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 243.09, \"end\": 243.11, \"score\": 0.001}]}, {\"start\": 243.57, \"end\": 271.315, \"text\": \"可是當事人拒絕的時候國家有沒有什麼樣的角度跟可能性我們想要積極協助他的時候我們可以怎麼做第三個新聞是才剛撤銷保護令就被前男友砍殺這個內湖的案子我們看見他潛在的問題是保護令失效或者是撤回後的人身安全行為人處遇跟輔導機制我認為這題就相對複雜囉包含保護令失效撤回後人身安全還有行為人處遇跟輔導機制\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 243.57, \"end\": 243.67, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 243.67, \"end\": 244.03, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 244.03, \"end\": 244.15, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 244.15, \"end\": 244.43, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"拒\", \"start\": 244.43, \"end\": 244.85, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"絕\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 244.85, \"end\": 245.07, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 245.07, \"end\": 245.57, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 245.57, \"end\": 246.09, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 246.09, \"end\": 246.21, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 246.21, \"end\": 246.31, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 246.31, \"end\": 246.411, \"score\": 0.694}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 246.411, \"end\": 246.711, \"score\": 0.72}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 246.711, \"end\": 246.831, \"score\": 0.68}, {\"word\": \"角\", \"start\": 246.831, \"end\": 247.051, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 247.051, \"end\": 247.191, \"score\": 0.782}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 247.191, \"end\": 247.391, \"score\": 0.772}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 247.391, \"end\": 247.571, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 247.571, \"end\": 247.791, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 247.791, \"end\": 248.191, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 248.191, \"end\": 248.391, \"score\": 0.825}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 248.391, \"end\": 248.591, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 248.591, \"end\": 249.311, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"積\"}, {\"word\": \"極\"}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", 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\"那當我們的受理這個案子的時候一審查就會通知當事人補一些資料但是遲遲未補所以就會定期所以因為有定期所以產生他這個就是所謂市民啊優勢證據的資料不夠才會拖到20幾天一般的通常都在7到10天你說暫保的部分暫保的部分平均是7到9暫保7到10天不開庭就發出去了好\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1002.449, \"end\": 1003.549, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1003.549, \"end\": 1003.949, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1003.949, \"end\": 1004.91, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 1004.91, \"end\": 1005.09, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 1005.09, \"end\": 1005.43, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 1005.43, \"end\": 1005.63, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 1005.63, \"end\": 1005.71, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1005.71, \"end\": 1005.87, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 1005.87, \"end\": 1005.99, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1005.99, \"end\": 1006.33, \"score\": 0.818}, 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\"料\", \"start\": 1017.793, \"end\": 1017.953, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1017.953, \"end\": 1018.693, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 1018.693, \"end\": 1019.053, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"拖\", \"start\": 1019.053, \"end\": 1019.194, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1019.194, \"end\": 1019.754, \"score\": 0.733}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"幾\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 1019.754, \"end\": 1020.274, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1020.274, \"end\": 1020.514, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"般\", \"start\": 1020.514, \"end\": 1020.714, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1020.714, \"end\": 1020.994, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 1020.994, \"end\": 1021.194, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 1021.194, \"end\": 1021.374, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 1021.374, \"end\": 1021.494, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 1021.494, \"end\": 1021.914, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1021.914, \"end\": 1022.794, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 1022.794, \"end\": 1023.235, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 1023.235, \"end\": 1023.715, \"score\": 0.787}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"暫\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 1023.715, \"end\": 1023.815, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1023.815, \"end\": 1023.955, \"score\": 0.627}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1023.955, \"end\": 1024.095, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1024.095, \"end\": 1024.575, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"暫\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 1024.575, \"end\": 1024.675, \"score\": 0.751}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1024.675, \"end\": 1024.775, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1024.775, \"end\": 1024.855, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1024.855, \"end\": 1025.015, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 1025.015, \"end\": 1025.215, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"均\", \"start\": 1025.215, \"end\": 1025.615, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1025.615, \"end\": 1025.735, \"score\": 0.577}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1025.735, \"end\": 1025.915, \"score\": 0.718}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"暫\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 1025.915, \"end\": 1026.215, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 1026.215, \"end\": 1026.555, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 1026.555, \"end\": 1026.716, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1026.716, \"end\": 1026.996, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"庭\", \"start\": 1026.996, \"end\": 1027.136, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1027.136, \"end\": 1027.456, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 1027.456, \"end\": 1027.616, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1027.616, \"end\": 1027.776, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1027.776, \"end\": 1027.916, \"score\": 0.662}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1027.916, \"end\": 1027.936, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 1028.977, \"end\": 1041.569, \"text\": \"所以我們的22天的數字之所以會這樣是包括開庭的全部把它結案的可是戰保不需要開庭不是嗎它是寫得開庭所以我們去調資料的時候就是一直沒有補進來所以不足以市民有危險性的態度所以剛剛衛福部才會說資料要趕快進來最剛開始的時候\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1028.977, \"end\": 1029.077, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1029.077, \"end\": 1029.157, \"score\": 0.598}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1029.157, \"end\": 1029.437, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1029.437, \"end\": 1029.978, \"score\": 0.707}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 1029.978, \"end\": 1030.138, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1030.138, \"end\": 1030.478, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1040.388, \"end\": 1040.408, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"危\", \"start\": 1040.408, \"end\": 1040.548, \"score\": 0.57}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"性\", \"start\": 1040.548, \"end\": 1040.648, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1040.648, \"end\": 1040.728, \"score\": 0.208}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 1040.728, \"end\": 1040.828, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1040.828, \"end\": 1040.928, \"score\": 0.482}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1040.928, \"end\": 1040.948, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"衛\"}, {\"word\": \"福\", \"start\": 1040.948, \"end\": 1040.968, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1040.968, \"end\": 1041.089, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 1041.089, \"end\": 1041.169, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 1041.169, \"end\": 1041.209, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1041.209, \"end\": 1041.249, \"score\": 0.276}, {\"word\": \"趕\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 1041.249, \"end\": 1041.389, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 1041.389, \"end\": 1041.409, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 1041.409, \"end\": 1041.529, \"score\": 0.82}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1041.529, \"end\": 1041.549, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 1041.549, \"end\": 1041.569, \"score\": 0.93}]}, {\"start\": 1050.578, \"end\": 1071.909, \"text\": \"那我想後續確實需要衛福部協助司法院這邊好來謝謝那緊急保護的因為通常是法規規定是一天以內對不對24小時那4小時然後現在我們一年大概100多件對不對好那我很好奇喔如果中間我們遇到空窗期該怎麼辦我剛說的戰保這個空窗期還沒發戰保對對對對我現在說是還沒發戰保的空窗期我們有沒有什麼因應或者是保護的措施\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1050.578, \"end\": 1050.698, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 1050.698, \"end\": 1050.778, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 1050.778, \"end\": 1050.938, 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\"end\": 1439.338, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 1439.338, \"end\": 1439.418, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 1439.418, \"end\": 1439.538, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"感\", \"start\": 1439.538, \"end\": 1439.758, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1439.758, \"end\": 1439.858, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1439.858, \"end\": 1439.878, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:18,639 --> 00:00:18,819\n主席\n\n2\n00:00:30,834 --> 00:00:47,729\n好兩位午安那我想今天非常多委員都關注相關的比例跟數字我們就直接切入重點其實所有的問政跟包含主席兼排這個專報我們都是希望憾事不要再發生所以如果我們來看一些比較細緻的東西我們就要往這裡去想\n\n3\n00:00:48,490 --> 00:01:11,677\n如何做做哪些事情然後哪些事我們漏掉導致憾事一再的發生那我們今天也許就有機會來討論了我知道你們其實很快因應這個土城的事件你們立刻召開了跨部會的會議我想這個動作非常的快那我現在想要知道一下因為還沒有看到會議記錄可不可以簡單的說明一下我們只有看到新聞稿目前是說有五個決議包含第一個強化第一線專業人員的教育訓練還有嚴寧跨峽通報跟應變機制\n\n4\n00:01:16,539 --> 00:01:35,178\n盤點刑事程序的銜接處理針對雙項加害或被害案件的提出新指引還有最後提供完整的心理輔導跟支持這是目前在新聞稿看見的可不可以讓你們簡單補充說明一下後續在這件事情上如何跟第一線的工作人員可以做對接可以希望憾事不再發生\n\n5\n00:01:36,089 --> 00:02:05,729\n非常感謝委員對於我們這一個五大決議的一個關心那我剛剛也有在回應其他委員的時候我特別談到這五點裡面我個人因為我當天也是主席我認為這裡面這一次如果以後要避免其實最重要事實上就是以這個保護令為主它的整個核發還有整個羈押的一個情況的時候我們要提供就是左邊就是警政的這個同仁還有右邊的就是這個社工同仁必須要提出必要\n\n6\n00:02:06,469 --> 00:02:30,369\n的一些相關的這個訊息讓這一個檢察官還有讓法官他在裁定整個這一個所謂保護令的時候有必要的necessaryinformation那這裡面的必要的這個訊息包括幾個部分第一個事件發生頻率第二個家庭背景的這一個陳述還有第三個剛剛所說的情節輕重第四個就是剛剛我想那個司法院副秘書長有特別提到我們的\n\n7\n00:02:34,137 --> 00:02:47,575\n這個整個高風險的這個量表TVDA的這個量表那我想這一些其實基本上都應該第一時間趕快競速而且完整的提供給這一個檢察官來做相關的這一個整個這個判斷好\n\n8\n00:02:48,977 --> 00:03:10,465\n如果你要談到保護令我們等一下確實會談到這個部分當然我們看到第一線還有包含你們跨部會的會議結論如果根據剛剛次長你所說的事件然後背景然後情節輕重高風險良表這些東西可以透過警政跟社工的努力快速交給檢察官做出後續的判斷那我們來看一下因為過去當然有一些憾事這些憾事我們認為他們呈現了一些\n\n9\n00:03:13,066 --> 00:03:33,354\n不同的現在我們所看見不同的缺漏我們來一一檢視一下這些缺漏有沒有可能在你剛剛說的那些措施當中去補足回來第一個基隆五歲小孩被爸爸把枕頭悶殺可是其實當時母親已經有提出這個保護令的申請可是他其實遇到的是保護令的空窗期但因為新的事件我想我就不再多說\n\n10\n00:03:34,034 --> 00:04:03,110\n還有相關人員的知能跟敏感度甚至我都會說這個相關人員其實還包含這個孩子的媽媽因為媽媽在通報的時候其實沒有通報說孩子有受虐跟受到家暴的情況所以這裡的相關人員我甚至還想提到的是被害人本身他們意識到他的孩子也需要求助第二個是化室的槍殺案這個女子她拒絕保護令所以我們認為這裡的問題可能潛在的問題是其實資源有到位了大家也都知道要投入\n\n11\n00:04:03,570 --> 00:04:31,315\n可是當事人拒絕的時候國家有沒有什麼樣的角度跟可能性我們想要積極協助他的時候我們可以怎麼做第三個新聞是才剛撤銷保護令就被前男友砍殺這個內湖的案子我們看見他潛在的問題是保護令失效或者是撤回後的人身安全行為人處遇跟輔導機制我認為這題就相對複雜囉包含保護令失效撤回後人身安全還有行為人處遇跟輔導機制\n\n12\n00:04:33,156 --> 00:04:46,731\n剛剛莊委員也提到輔導人行為人處於的事情最後一個新聞是國民法官審新北沙夫案幾乎被判刑七年兩個月他長期被行為人制約早上王逸傳委員又提到這些事情也就是說\n\n13\n00:04:47,412 --> 00:05:07,729\n我們不要看個案我們來看通案全面的盤點新聞背後所看見的潛在問題回應到您剛剛說的五大會議結論跟後續的相關配套你認為我們有沒有機會把這一塊慢慢補起來當然今天時間有限那我就先提出我們辦公室研究跟觀察\n\n14\n00:05:08,209 --> 00:05:27,038\n可是確實我們是希望你們的跨部會會議跟後續的政策推動跟你剛剛說的所有配套可以未來再看到類似事情或是避免類似事情發生的時候這些潛在的問題可以獲得解決當然我知道都還要再努力但我們來看一個其實這個我也很想跟您討論是\n\n15\n00:05:29,496 --> 00:05:44,975\n這個統計數字是來自行政院的網站統計資料我不確定你有沒有看過不過沒關係我跟你說第一個這個數字可以看到的是家暴的通報數量連年上升而各式各樣家暴的原因也都持續上升其中親密關係佔了五成\n\n16\n00:05:47,117 --> 00:06:14,487\n我在跟我的同仁讨论的时候我认为有一个很重要的原因是大家的意识提升了所以我们就通报但也有可能这是其中一个原因第二个原因是双向都有通报就是加害人跟被害人在一个有争执的情况下都会通报我们做过研究你们一直点头代表我们想的是对的所以我不知道你们卫福部怎么看这个数字当然我们有我们的解读我也想听听看次长您的看法\n\n17\n00:06:15,547 --> 00:06:40,816\n陳如剛委員所說我們從1998年通過之後27年其實大家的整個這個家庭就是整個這個防暴意識提升我也要跟委員報告就是說另外一方面我們保護師其實在各個社區我們都有推那個所謂的防暴社區的這個觀念然後來訓練這一個防暴師來做這個廣為宣講那其實剛剛陳如剛委員所說的這個上升其實另外一個確實還有一個所謂互為通報\n\n18\n00:06:42,116 --> 00:07:07,067\n這一個的部分就以這次土城的這個案件為例其實事實上他自己本身他甚至他自己他也申請這個所謂保護力是這個所以我剛說的雙向通報的問題沒有錯我剛很開心聽到您說防暴師因為我確實認識好幾位防暴師講師確實他們告訴我們第一線的狀況是有講了之後真的還蠻多人就意識到說原來這個情況是屬於防暴的家暴的內容所以可能通報上升這個時候問題就來了\n\n19\n00:07:09,048 --> 00:07:38,731\n要問的是那第一線社工現在你們的盤點是我其實懷疑會不會嚴重人數不足報告委員確實啦我就是說因為通報案案件上升那我也那個我們必須要承認這個現實是沒錯就是說我們按照規定我們應該是像那個成人保護的話應該是1比30是那兒童保護的話應該1比25那現在目前確實都有案社工案量這個過多過多但是我們找不到這麼多社工\n\n20\n00:07:39,851 --> 00:08:04,978\n所以我們現在目前在社安網第二期2.0的部分我們現在就是要來也跟行政院這邊報上去就是說我們現在要趕快來補足這部分的這個人力的這個gap那當然也就是說社工這個各學校那個社工的整個這一個教育的部分我們也要趕快來做相關的這個培訓工作好我很樂意我很開心聽到你剛剛說的你們已經跟行政院討論在社安網2.0但是我可以確定一下因為我聽這個\n\n21\n00:08:06,218 --> 00:08:33,005\n你們大概預計什麼時候可以逐步跟上這個數字1比30或者是1比25你們的規劃沒關係還是可以讓市長來回覆謝謝謝謝委員關心其實處理交報案件這麼大量的通報其實我們更要精準的把人力用在該做對的事情上面所以我們的分級分流的部分做了一些處理那包括用替打量表來這個\n\n22\n00:08:35,085 --> 00:08:45,152\n評估或者是我們先做評估篩選出高危機案件然後把人力用在這個上頭那另外我們也結合民間團體我們一共每年有37個民間團體幫我們做這個親密關係風險低的\n\n23\n00:08:50,216 --> 00:09:15,031\n中低度但是有意願有必有需要服務的案件我們有37個團體在幫在幫政府在後端協助這些婦女讓他們能夠脫離暴力所以單純看1比30我覺得是可能還可以再看資源的這個部件以及這個案件的分流處理這樣的一個機制可能更有意義\n\n24\n00:09:16,232 --> 00:09:34,711\n從第一線工作角度我完全支持您剛說的這麼多細緻的處理確實也可以比較直接幫忙到所有的當事人只是說確實第一時間社會大眾所看見的是人力比的匱乏那如果行政院有其意願也有其資源當然我認為立法院絕對是大力支持\n\n25\n00:09:35,131 --> 00:10:04,083\n只是說我們如何真的可以把人補到位而且補到位之後因為前陣子還有一個文章說其實社安網前一個版本的困境是社安社工變很多了資源好像也到位可是好像彼此就固著在自己的工作崗位上彼此之間的合作可能就少了一些過往的經驗那我相信也許在未來社安網2.0的版本當中社工跟社工之間在服務同一個案子的過程當中如何緊密的接軌互助合作\n\n26\n00:10:04,463 --> 00:10:22,315\n我認為不會只有在兒少案件當然因為我在胃環每次都問你們兒少可是今天在這邊我們問的是家暴案件剛剛司長你說的我都認同但後續的接軌我知道也不要只追求人力我們一起努力好不好我再補充一下主席都是他一直說喔這樣\n\n27\n00:10:23,396 --> 00:10:37,091\n我們現在要分級分流這個高風險我們現在目前用TIVA量表大概測出來大概10%所以我們會把我們的這個測工主力會放置重兵在這一個所謂的10%的部分\n\n28\n00:10:38,353 --> 00:10:55,574\n這樣我就要幫社工多爭取如果是高風險我相信社工的工作量跟心理負擔其實也很大我們後續也要積極協助這些第一線的社工心理素質不要只有風險加急啦市長我們在協助他們心理整備那個素質的時候也要給予協助\n\n29\n00:10:57,095 --> 00:11:14,660\n應該要來強化這個我們後續再跟你們討論好來下一張接下來看司法院統計關於家暴通報還有保護令事件一樣是持續攀升的那這個是司法院的資料申請保護令的案件我們來看一下第一個司法院現在一年有三萬多件的申請案\n\n30\n00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:38,135\n那原因我們剛剛已經都說了嘛但是我其實擔心的是那第一線的法官他們過勞的情況其實不是只有在家暴案件工作量這麼大我們之前在屢次的質詢當中我們都不斷不斷的說現在我想知道不知道你手上有沒有資料平均一個庭或者是一個法官在相關保護令要扛多少如果以每一個庭或者是法官來算\n\n31\n00:11:39,721 --> 00:11:56,446\n沒關係沒有嘛沒有算這個平均但是我說的一年三萬多件是對的嘛對好但這個數字我相信你們應該有來自第一線的回饋跟聲音體感上可不可以告訴我們他們的工作量質感上應該是壓力很大然後案件也很多\n\n32\n00:12:01,629 --> 00:12:22,440\n讓我們知道實際的狀況我去年從士林地院過來我在士林地院我們是六個法官加一個庭堂辦四分之一大概是6.25股的能力我們一年的通常保護令案件我離開的那一年112年年底我沒有記錯應該是1300件就光通常保護令所以我們一個法官大概一個月要收\n\n33\n00:12:26,111 --> 00:12:46,727\n六點二五一千三嘛所以一個法官一年收兩百件左右然後你可能他上半天也大概就兩百多天都還沒有算他加班時間然後一個月大概他還有其他對他還有其他我當時在士林地院的家事庭整個總收案量一個法官是八十件左右一個月一個月其實算多對不對\n\n34\n00:12:48,309 --> 00:13:08,389\n過多超多很多很多你很客氣我都已經幫你說超多了啦其實是超多我要講的是第一線的這個量所以我相信這邊可不可以請司法院再回覆一下副秘書長你們有沒有打算在這個事情上做什麼樣的調整員額的部分或者是人力的部分\n\n35\n00:13:10,049 --> 00:13:34,084\n謝謝委員關心這個事情因為司法院各法院人力負擔非常非常沉重我們的總元額法全國是一萬五千人這個數字馬上就已經要報表了所以說我們的法官必須是在三年前的時候就開始要算今年的考試是三年之後到位\n\n36\n00:13:35,185 --> 00:13:50,751\n我們現在就是說也陷入一個那個困境因為就是加一個那個法官的話其他還有書記官跟法助還有其他像其他的這些那個輔助人立法警什麼的那你們全部算在這15000是是是而且是全國\n\n37\n00:13:52,232 --> 00:14:16,809\n對那所以就是說你要加那個法官的話才能夠承受這些那個案件可是加了法官會不會就排擠其他的工作人員正當我們今天要上台質詢的時候我們還看到一個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理我沒有在罵你髒話我說那個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理是他們就有在說你們最近是不是有個會議要把約聘改成冤用是不是因為元額的問題是這個可以後續再說是\n\n38\n00:14:17,669 --> 00:14:32,763\n但是我今天這題就是要我不知道我們可以怎麼解決我們可不可以有機會回過頭來討論種源額的問題你們自己這邊的傾向我們當然可以回過頭再跟人種討論但我想知道你們自己在第一線希望反映給人種的聲音會是什麼\n\n39\n00:14:33,103 --> 00:14:53,565\n是這也是司法院的政策那我們現在正在就是說很精準的就是做這個人力評估啊也有委託就是外面的這些學校那個教授來進到那個司法院就是精準的去幫我們看我們這些人力的那個評估到底還需要增加那個多少人然後有這些客觀那個數據去爭取大概多久要算出來\n\n40\n00:14:54,640 --> 00:15:22,787\n我们基本的资料都已经有现在会诊资料我们希望可以立刻就是去争取支持拜托去争取因为光是靠北助理法官那个事情都已经在讲法官助理的部分了那更何况还有法官还有刚刚来自第一线的同仁的声音卫福部先请回不好意思谢谢所以司法院这边稍等我一下好所以我希望这个数字可以很快出来你刚刚说你们已经找专家学者做了研究我们办公室可以跟你们要这个资料吗\n\n41\n00:15:23,992 --> 00:15:51,011\n還是你們可以讓我們大概知道一下你們的計算跟你們希望跟人總討論的部分嗎這我們會去彙整對好不好好謝謝接下來那我們來看一下如果是這個案子你看人這麼多都還不要談通保戰保還有緊急保護令各自的一些狀況可是如果我們把人事的部分解決我們現在來看我現在想問的是第一個保護令常常被詬病的時間就是因為日期太長那我認為人力不足絕對是一個部分\n\n42\n00:15:51,972 --> 00:16:08,744\n那你剛剛說已經你們希望增加人力所以這個我已經聽到答案了那可是第二個暫時保護令當時我們設立的目的是希望保護遭受家庭暴力的被害人那有一個所謂暫時性的措施這個緊急性的臨時保護措施可是目前我們現在算了這個時間給我們的數字是22天我很想知道這個22天是怎麼樣\n\n43\n00:16:15,356 --> 00:16:42,149\n就是這個程序為什麼需要這麼久還是他其實還是卡在人力的問題戰保的部分戰保的部分現在平均值是22天沒關係讓後面的同仁回答沒有關係好謝謝委員我是中中委員廳長是這一部分是這樣根據加法法的規定這個鑽石保護令它是得因為市政不足得開庭審理是\n\n44\n00:16:42,449 --> 00:17:07,936\n那當我們的受理這個案子的時候一審查就會通知當事人補一些資料但是遲遲未補所以就會定期所以因為有定期所以產生他這個就是所謂市民啊優勢證據的資料不夠才會拖到20幾天一般的通常都在7到10天你說暫保的部分暫保的部分平均是7到9暫保7到10天不開庭就發出去了好\n\n45\n00:17:08,977 --> 00:17:21,569\n所以我們的22天的數字之所以會這樣是包括開庭的全部把它結案的可是戰保不需要開庭不是嗎它是寫得開庭所以我們去調資料的時候就是一直沒有補進來所以不足以市民有危險性的態度所以剛剛衛福部才會說資料要趕快進來最剛開始的時候\n\n46\n00:17:30,578 --> 00:17:51,909\n那我想後續確實需要衛福部協助司法院這邊好來謝謝那緊急保護的因為通常是法規規定是一天以內對不對24小時那4小時然後現在我們一年大概100多件對不對好那我很好奇喔如果中間我們遇到空窗期該怎麼辦我剛說的戰保這個空窗期還沒發戰保對對對對我現在說是還沒發戰保的空窗期我們有沒有什麼因應或者是保護的措施\n\n47\n00:18:01,013 --> 00:18:23,440\n請說請說委員好我做一個報告齁如果緊急保護令的話不論何時我們懲判的法官這個我知道四小時要發那麼現在是戰保有些直接就申請進來那有些是申請通保依規定我們看到那個量表那個危險量表跟這個人格性格有暴力我們是依職權發戰保\n\n48\n00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:39,096\n就是通報醫治權先發先醫治權發這個戰報這個是法有明文所以法官的訓練在這個地方很重要但是資料如果我們可以彙整就是說網絡可以彙整立即就會取得\n\n49\n00:18:41,137 --> 00:19:00,585\n實務上的做法我聽懂了但是你剛剛說沒有空窗期真的嗎不會有任何一個案件有空窗期嗎我所謂的空窗期就是只在發出這個保護令之前就算它是戰保發出保護令之前還是你們認為相關案件它原本如果是申請戰保但是你們認為事態緊急你們其實會自行改成緊急保護令是這樣嗎\n\n50\n00:19:01,565 --> 00:19:26,344\n所以就不會有空窗期不是因為緊急保護令只有機關可以申請是那暫時保護令當事人跟機關都可以申請對那現在剛剛的空窗期會有是在通保通保在進行中如果我們收集到的危險資料不夠所以法官就沒有依之前核發馬上介入的保護叫暫保沒有發暫保這個就空窗了\n\n51\n00:19:26,904 --> 00:19:53,223\n對那怎麼辦嘛我現在就問你怎麼辦那我們有設計了三種三套給全國家事法官來進行第一個就是立即連結這個駐法院的家暴服務處的社工立即去啟動這個做一個安全計畫給法官就是有哪些危險性好所以是第一個對第一個第二個就是我們知道很多兒童都目睹那目睹暴力的時候因為他\n\n52\n00:19:54,403 --> 00:20:07,750\n這個發的戰保有禁止接觸那就沒有辦法看到小孩所以我們會立即發函給那個個管社工就是加防中心的請他提出迅速提出三到五天提出一個最快的訪視跟監督室會面計畫來保護兒童\n\n53\n00:20:11,952 --> 00:20:39,281\n那第三個就是說如果風險裡面他是藥物亂用人格異常等等那我們會立即啟動這個主動來做進行這個所謂的處理計畫鑑定同時呢處理計畫鑑定的同時也發函依法律規定給加防官就是我們分局裡面有加防官請他安排這個這個所謂轄區派出所的巡邏跟這個安全維護當然第一個這個\n\n54\n00:20:40,961 --> 00:21:04,142\n所謂做交報服務做安全計畫裡面可能就已經有啟動跟各館社工去所謂的庇護跟這個安全離開庇護保密這個措手以上好謝謝你回答這麼仔細我其實就是要聽你講這個因為我認為剛剛空窗期的部分一定有你們已經知道的你們已經注意到所以你們做了一些預防措施但是現在社會大眾可能不理解因為\n\n55\n00:21:04,682 --> 00:21:29,756\n一定還是會有一些少數個案出現那個所謂空窗期那所以在您剛剛報告三個做法當中我們後續再來跟你們討論還有哪些可能性是我們之後再透過法規範或是相關措施來補上我們今天就不再用這邊的時間但您剛剛回覆我那三個樣態聽起來可能是一般人之前還不知道但現在我們讓大家知道後續還沒有的我們再補上好最後一個\n\n56\n00:21:30,636 --> 00:21:53,547\n當事人通報意願其實也是我剛剛有提到的部分那因為法不入家門家醜不外揚這樣的概念我們看到相關數字是家暴當事人平均要4.2年才願意通報我認為你們一定有做相關的宣導剛剛說有防暴時的部分我當然希望後續可以持續加強因為我時間有限我就不再多說另外一個其實我還是要提醒你們加害人除獄的\n\n57\n00:21:54,087 --> 00:22:15,258\n的部分因為剛莊瑞雄也說相關數字的比例其實是不合理的那加害人廚藥我認為應該衛福部會知道要花一些力氣再去調整進行相關資源的調整還有相關宣導這個部分可不可以讓衛福部回應一下因為確實最近國人覺得很擔心土城那個事情其實是加害人的部分\n\n58\n00:22:16,418 --> 00:22:31,047\n包委員我們現在確實就是說陳副委員剛剛所說這裡面有這個相對人還有被害人的部分那這兩部分我們都必須要作為相關處遇計畫那其實以這個土城這個案例其實他們其實他等於搬\n\n59\n00:22:32,468 --> 00:22:57,693\n這一個搬到屏東的時候屏東的社會處還有社工去做那這裡面我們未來也會請我們保護性社工這邊相關的處遇計畫必須我們的整個教育訓練我們會來應該要來強化應該加害人處遇計畫我們還有努力的空間簡單的說就是這樣好不好還有另外一個我也跟各位回報就是說其實另外一個最重要還是里長林長這個部分\n\n60\n00:23:00,934 --> 00:23:24,077\n這個部分但是我們就要協助里長跟里長增加相關的知能還有協助他們的資源配套不然等到他開始有意識他開始有意識然後他開始很雞婆而且雞婆是好心的他開始好心的去做這些事情的時候他可能也會開始感到無助因為後續的資源要減少這個部分我們就一起努力最後一個庇護所因為現在多處偏遠地帶我們如何改善\n\n61\n00:23:26,302 --> 00:23:39,099\n因為就降低大家入住的意願我們如何保護被害人人身安全這個部分我們現在目前其實跟這個社會住宅這邊我們也會來合作譬如說像林口林口社宅那邊就有一個相關計畫再給我們\n\n62\n00:23:40,441 --> 00:23:59,878\n好謝謝最後我的結論講得很清楚主席我要結論我的結論就是這些我剛剛所有問的問題你們都回答已經有做到的跟還要努力的我們就繼續努力相關資料我們辦公室會再跟你們出所資就是人力的部分申請保護令還有加爆防護措施三個月內好不好好謝謝主席非常感謝委員謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n18639\t18819\t主席\n30834\t47729\t好 兩位午安那我想今天非常多委員都關注相關的比例跟數字我們就直接切入重點其實所有的問政跟包含主席兼排這個專報我們都是希望憾事不要再發生所以如果我們來看一些比較細緻的東西我們就要往這裡去想\n48490\t71677\t如何做 做哪些事情然後哪些事我們漏掉導致憾事一再的發生那我們今天也許就有機會來討論了我知道你們其實很快因應這個土城的事件你們立刻召開了跨部會的會議我想這個動作非常的快那我現在想要知道一下因為還沒有看到會議記錄可不可以簡單的說明一下我們只有看到新聞稿目前是說有五個決議包含第一個強化第一線專業人員的教育訓練還有嚴寧跨峽通報跟應變機制\n76539\t95178\t盤點刑事程序的銜接處理針對雙項加害或被害案件的提出新指引還有最後提供完整的心理輔導跟支持這是目前在新聞稿看見的可不可以讓你們簡單補充說明一下後續在這件事情上如何跟第一線的工作人員可以做對接可以希望憾事不再發生\n96089\t125729\t非常感謝委員對於我們這一個五大決議的一個關心那我剛剛也有在回應其他委員的時候我特別談到這五點裡面我個人因為我當天也是主席我認為這裡面這一次如果以後要避免其實最重要事實上就是以這個保護令為主它的整個核發還有整個羈押的一個情況的時候我們要提供就是左邊就是警政的這個同仁還有右邊的就是這個社工同仁必須要提出必要\n126469\t150369\t的一些相關的這個訊息讓這一個檢察官還有讓法官他在裁定整個這一個所謂保護令的時候有必要的necessary information那這裡面的必要的這個訊息包括幾個部分第一個事件發生頻率第二個家庭背景的這一個陳述還有第三個剛剛所說的情節輕重第四個就是剛剛我想那個司法院副秘書長有特別提到我們的\n154137\t167575\t這個整個高風險的這個量表TVDA的這個量表那我想這一些其實基本上都應該第一時間趕快競速而且完整的提供給這一個檢察官來做相關的這一個整個這個判斷好\n168977\t190465\t如果你要談到保護令我們等一下確實會談到這個部分當然我們看到第一線還有包含你們跨部會的會議結論如果根據剛剛次長你所說的事件然後背景然後情節輕重高風險良表這些東西可以透過警政跟社工的努力快速交給檢察官做出後續的判斷那我們來看一下因為過去當然有一些憾事這些憾事我們認為他們呈現了一些\n193066\t213354\t不同的現在我們所看見不同的缺漏我們來一一檢視一下這些缺漏有沒有可能在你剛剛說的那些措施當中去補足回來第一個基隆五歲小孩被爸爸把枕頭悶殺可是其實當時母親已經有提出這個保護令的申請可是他其實遇到的是保護令的空窗期但因為新的事件我想我就不再多說\n214034\t243110\t還有相關人員的知能跟敏感度甚至我都會說這個相關人員其實還包含這個孩子的媽媽因為媽媽在通報的時候其實沒有通報說孩子有受虐跟受到家暴的情況所以這裡的相關人員我甚至還想提到的是被害人本身他們意識到他的孩子也需要求助第二個是化室的槍殺案這個女子她拒絕保護令所以我們認為這裡的問題可能潛在的問題是其實資源有到位了大家也都知道要投入\n243570\t271315\t可是當事人拒絕的時候國家有沒有什麼樣的角度跟可能性我們想要積極協助他的時候我們可以怎麼做第三個新聞是才剛撤銷保護令就被前男友砍殺這個內湖的案子我們看見他潛在的問題是保護令失效或者是撤回後的人身安全行為人處遇跟輔導機制我認為這題就相對複雜囉包含保護令失效撤回後人身安全還有行為人處遇跟輔導機制\n273156\t286731\t剛剛莊委員也提到輔導人行為人處於的事情最後一個新聞是國民法官審新北沙夫案幾乎被判刑七年兩個月他長期被行為人制約早上王逸傳委員又提到這些事情也就是說\n287412\t307729\t我們不要看個案我們來看通案全面的盤點新聞背後所看見的潛在問題回應到您剛剛說的五大會議結論跟後續的相關配套你認為我們有沒有機會把這一塊慢慢補起來當然今天時間有限那我就先提出我們辦公室研究跟觀察\n308209\t327038\t可是確實我們是希望你們的跨部會會議跟後續的政策推動跟你剛剛說的所有配套可以未來再看到類似事情或是避免類似事情發生的時候這些潛在的問題可以獲得解決當然我知道都還要再努力但我們來看一個其實這個我也很想跟您討論是\n329496\t344975\t這個統計數字是來自行政院的網站統計資料我不確定你有沒有看過不過沒關係我跟你說第一個這個數字可以看到的是家暴的通報數量連年上升而各式各樣家暴的原因也都持續上升其中親密關係佔了五成\n347117\t374487\t我在跟我的同仁讨论的时候我认为有一个很重要的原因是大家的意识提升了所以我们就通报但也有可能这是其中一个原因第二个原因是双向都有通报就是加害人跟被害人在一个有争执的情况下都会通报我们做过研究你们一直点头代表我们想的是对的所以我不知道你们卫福部怎么看这个数字当然我们有我们的解读我也想听听看次长您的看法\n375547\t400816\t陳如剛委員所說我們從1998年通過之後27年其實大家的整個這個家庭就是整個這個防暴意識提升我也要跟委員報告就是說另外一方面我們保護師其實在各個社區我們都有推那個所謂的防暴社區的這個觀念然後來訓練這一個防暴師來做這個廣為宣講那其實剛剛陳如剛委員所說的這個上升其實另外一個確實還有一個所謂互為通報\n402116\t427067\t這一個的部分就以這次土城的這個案件為例其實事實上他自己本身他甚至他自己他也申請這個所謂保護力是這個所以我剛說的雙向通報的問題沒有錯我剛很開心聽到您說防暴師因為我確實認識好幾位防暴師講師確實他們告訴我們第一線的狀況是有講了之後真的還蠻多人就意識到說原來這個情況是屬於防暴的家暴的內容所以可能通報上升這個時候問題就來了\n429048\t458731\t要問的是那第一線社工現在你們的盤點是我其實懷疑會不會嚴重人數不足報告委員確實啦我就是說因為通報案案件上升那我也那個我們必須要承認這個現實是沒錯就是說我們按照規定我們應該是像那個成人保護的話應該是1比30是那兒童保護的話應該1比25那現在目前確實都有案社工案量這個過多過多但是我們找不到這麼多社工\n459851\t484978\t所以我們現在目前在社安網第二期 2.0的部分我們現在就是要來也跟行政院這邊報上去就是說我們現在要趕快來補足這部分的這個人力的這個gap那當然也就是說社工這個各學校那個社工的整個這一個教育的部分我們也要趕快來做相關的這個培訓工作好我很樂意我很開心聽到你剛剛說的你們已經跟行政院討論在社安網2.0但是我可以確定一下因為我聽這個\n486218\t513005\t你們大概預計什麼時候可以逐步跟上這個數字1比30或者是1比25你們的規劃沒關係還是可以讓市長來回覆謝謝謝謝委員關心其實處理交報案件這麼大量的通報其實我們更要精準的把人力用在該做對的事情上面所以我們的分級分流的部分做了一些處理那包括用替打量表來這個\n515085\t525152\t評估或者是我們先做評估篩選出高危機案件然後把人力用在這個上頭那另外我們也結合民間團體我們一共每年有37個民間團體幫我們做這個親密關係風險低的\n530216\t555031\t中低度但是有意願有必有需要服務的案件我們有37個團體在幫在幫政府在後端協助這些婦女讓他們能夠脫離暴力所以單純看1比30我覺得是可能還可以再看資源的這個部件以及這個案件的分流處理這樣的一個機制可能更有意義\n556232\t574711\t從第一線工作角度我完全支持您剛說的這麼多細緻的處理確實也可以比較直接幫忙到所有的當事人只是說確實第一時間社會大眾所看見的是人力比的匱乏那如果行政院有其意願也有其資源當然我認為立法院絕對是大力支持\n575131\t604083\t只是說我們如何真的可以把人補到位而且補到位之後因為前陣子還有一個文章說其實社安網前一個版本的困境是社安 社工變很多了資源好像也到位可是好像彼此就固著在自己的工作崗位上彼此之間的合作可能就少了一些過往的經驗那我相信也許在未來社安網2.0的版本當中社工跟社工之間在服務同一個案子的過程當中如何緊密的接軌互助合作\n604463\t622315\t我認為不會只有在兒少案件當然因為我在胃環每次都問你們兒少可是今天在這邊我們問的是家暴案件剛剛司長你說的我都認同但後續的接軌我知道也不要只追求人力我們一起努力好不好我再補充一下主席都是他一直說喔這樣\n623396\t637091\t我們現在要分級分流這個高風險我們現在目前用TIVA量表大概測出來大概10%所以我們會把我們的這個測工主力會放置重兵在這一個所謂的10%的部分\n638353\t655574\t這樣我就要幫社工多爭取如果是高風險我相信社工的工作量跟心理負擔其實也很大我們後續也要積極協助這些第一線的社工心理素質不要只有風險加急啦市長我們在協助他們心理整備那個素質的時候也要給予協助\n657095\t674660\t應該要來強化這個我們後續再跟你們討論好來下一張接下來看司法院統計關於家暴通報還有保護令事件一樣是持續攀升的那這個是司法院的資料申請保護令的案件我們來看一下第一個司法院現在一年有三萬多件的申請案\n675620\t698135\t那原因我們剛剛已經都說了嘛但是我其實擔心的是那第一線的法官他們過勞的情況其實不是只有在家暴案件工作量這麼大我們之前在屢次的質詢當中我們都不斷不斷的說現在我想知道不知道你手上有沒有資料平均一個庭或者是一個法官在相關保護令要扛多少如果以每一個庭或者是法官來算\n699721\t716446\t沒關係 沒有嘛沒有算這個平均但是我說的一年三萬多件是對的嘛對好 但這個數字我相信你們應該有來自第一線的回饋跟聲音體感上可不可以告訴我們他們的工作量質感上應該是壓力很大然後案件也很多\n721629\t742440\t讓我們知道實際的狀況我去年從士林地院過來我在士林地院我們是六個法官加一個庭堂辦四分之一大概是6.25股的能力我們一年的通常保護令案件我離開的那一年112年年底我沒有記錯應該是1300件就光通常保護令所以我們一個法官大概一個月要收\n746111\t766727\t六點二五一千三嘛所以一個法官一年收兩百件左右然後你可能他上半天也大概就兩百多天都還沒有算他加班時間然後一個月大概他還有其他對他還有其他我當時在士林地院的家事庭整個總收案量一個法官是八十件左右一個月一個月其實算多對不對\n768309\t788389\t過多 超多很多很多你很客氣 我都已經幫你說超多了啦其實是超多我要講的是第一線的這個量所以我相信這邊可不可以請司法院再回覆一下副秘書長你們有沒有打算在這個事情上做什麼樣的調整 員額的部分或者是人力的部分\n790049\t814084\t謝謝委員關心這個事情因為司法院 各法院人力負擔非常非常沉重我們的總元額法全國是一萬五千人這個數字馬上就已經要報表了所以說我們的法官必須是在三年前的時候就開始要算今年的考試是三年之後到位\n815185\t830751\t我們現在就是說也陷入一個那個困境因為就是加一個那個法官的話其他還有書記官跟法助還有其他像其他的這些那個輔助人立法警什麼的那你們全部算在這15000是是是而且是全國\n832232\t856809\t對那所以就是說你要加那個法官的話才能夠承受這些那個案件可是加了法官會不會就排擠其他的工作人員正當我們今天要上台質詢的時候我們還看到一個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理我沒有在罵你髒話我說那個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理是他們就有在說你們最近是不是有個會議要把約聘改成冤用是不是因為元額的問題是這個可以後續再說是\n857669\t872763\t但是我今天這題就是要我不知道我們可以怎麼解決我們可不可以有機會回過頭來討論種源額的問題你們自己這邊的傾向我們當然可以回過頭再跟人種討論但我想知道你們自己在第一線希望反映給人種的聲音會是什麼\n873103\t893565\t是 這也是司法院的政策那我們現在正在就是說很精準的就是做這個人力評估啊也有委託就是外面的這些學校那個教授來進到那個司法院就是精準的去幫我們看我們這些人力的那個評估到底還需要增加那個多少人然後有這些客觀那個數據去爭取大概多久要算出來\n894640\t922787\t我们基本的资料都已经有现在会诊资料我们希望可以立刻就是去争取支持拜托去争取因为光是靠北助理法官那个事情都已经在讲法官助理的部分了那更何况还有法官还有刚刚来自第一线的同仁的声音卫福部先请回不好意思谢谢所以司法院这边稍等我一下好所以我希望这个数字可以很快出来你刚刚说你们已经找专家学者做了研究我们办公室可以跟你们要这个资料吗\n923992\t951011\t還是你們可以讓我們大概知道一下你們的計算跟你們希望跟人總討論的部分嗎這我們會去彙整對好不好好謝謝接下來那我們來看一下如果是這個案子你看人這麼多都還不要談通保戰保還有緊急保護令各自的一些狀況可是如果我們把人事的部分解決我們現在來看我現在想問的是第一個保護令常常被詬病的時間就是因為日期太長那我認為人力不足絕對是一個部分\n951972\t968744\t那你剛剛說已經你們希望增加人力所以這個我已經聽到答案了那可是第二個暫時保護令當時我們設立的目的是希望保護遭受家庭暴力的被害人那有一個所謂暫時性的措施這個緊急性的臨時保護措施可是目前我們現在算了這個時間給我們的數字是22天我很想知道這個22天是怎麼樣\n975356\t1002149\t就是這個程序為什麼需要這麼久還是他其實還是卡在人力的問題戰保的部分戰保的部分現在平均值是22天沒關係讓後面的同仁回答沒有關係好謝謝委員我是中中委員廳長是這一部分是這樣根據加法法的規定這個鑽石保護令它是得因為市政不足得開庭審理是\n1002449\t1027936\t那當我們的受理這個案子的時候一審查就會通知當事人補一些資料但是遲遲未補所以就會定期所以因為有定期所以產生他這個就是所謂市民啊優勢證據的資料不夠才會拖到20幾天一般的通常都在7到10天你說暫保的部分暫保的部分平均是7到9暫保7到10天不開庭就發出去了好\n1028977\t1041569\t所以我們的22天的數字之所以會這樣是包括開庭的全部把它結案的可是戰保不需要開庭不是嗎它是寫得開庭所以我們去調資料的時候就是一直沒有補進來所以不足以市民有危險性的態度所以剛剛衛福部才會說資料要趕快進來最剛開始的時候\n1050578\t1071909\t那我想後續確實需要衛福部協助司法院這邊好來謝謝那緊急保護的因為通常是法規規定是一天以內對不對24小時那4小時然後現在我們一年大概100多件對不對好那我很好奇喔如果中間我們遇到空窗期該怎麼辦我剛說的戰保這個空窗期還沒發戰保對對對對我現在說是還沒發戰保的空窗期我們有沒有什麼因應或者是保護的措施\n1081013\t1103440\t請說 請說委員好 我做一個報告齁如果緊急保護令的話不論何時我們懲判的法官這個我知道四小時要發那麼現在是戰保有些直接就申請進來那有些是申請通保依規定我們看到那個量表那個危險量表跟這個人格性格有暴力我們是依職權發戰保\n1105040\t1119096\t就是通報 醫治權先發先醫治權發這個戰報這個是法有明文所以法官的訓練在這個地方很重要但是資料如果我們可以彙整就是說網絡可以彙整立即就會取得\n1121137\t1140585\t實務上的做法我聽懂了但是你剛剛說沒有空窗期真的嗎不會有任何一個案件有空窗期嗎我所謂的空窗期就是只在發出這個保護令之前就算它是戰保發出保護令之前還是你們認為相關案件它原本如果是申請戰保但是你們認為事態緊急你們其實會自行改成緊急保護令是這樣嗎\n1141565\t1166344\t所以就不會有空窗期不是因為緊急保護令只有機關可以申請是那暫時保護令當事人跟機關都可以申請對那現在剛剛的空窗期會有是在通保通保在進行中如果我們收集到的危險資料不夠所以法官就沒有依之前核發馬上介入的保護叫暫保沒有發暫保這個就空窗了\n1166904\t1193223\t對 那怎麼辦嘛 我現在就問你怎麼辦那我們有設計了三種 三套給全國家事法官來進行第一個就是立即連結這個駐法院的家暴服務處的社工立即去啟動這個做一個安全計畫給法官就是有哪些危險性好 所以是第一個對 第一個第二個就是我們知道很多兒童都目睹那目睹暴力的時候 因為他\n1194403\t1207750\t這個發的戰保有禁止接觸那就沒有辦法看到小孩所以我們會立即發函給那個個管社工就是加防中心的請他提出迅速提出三到五天提出一個最快的訪視跟監督室會面計畫來保護兒童\n1211952\t1239281\t那第三個就是說如果風險裡面他是藥物亂用人格異常等等那我們會立即啟動這個主動來做進行這個所謂的處理計畫鑑定同時呢處理計畫鑑定的同時也發函依法律規定給加防官就是我們分局裡面有加防官請他安排這個這個所謂轄區派出所的巡邏跟這個安全維護當然第一個這個\n1240961\t1264142\t所謂做交報服務做安全計畫裡面可能就已經有啟動跟各館社工去所謂的庇護跟這個安全離開庇護保密這個措手 以上好 謝謝你回答這麼仔細我其實就是要聽你講這個因為我認為剛剛空窗期的部分一定有你們已經知道的你們已經注意到所以你們做了一些預防措施但是現在社會大眾可能不理解因為\n1264682\t1289756\t一定還是會有一些少數個案出現那個所謂空窗期那所以在您剛剛報告三個做法當中我們後續再來跟你們討論還有哪些可能性是我們之後再透過法規範或是相關措施來補上我們今天就不再用這邊的時間但您剛剛回覆我那三個樣態聽起來可能是一般人之前還不知道但現在我們讓大家知道後續還沒有的我們再補上好最後一個\n1290636\t1313547\t當事人通報意願其實也是我剛剛有提到的部分那因為法不入家門家醜不外揚這樣的概念我們看到相關數字是家暴當事人平均要4.2年才願意通報我認為你們一定有做相關的宣導剛剛說有防暴時的部分我當然希望後續可以持續加強因為我時間有限我就不再多說另外一個其實我還是要提醒你們加害人除獄的\n1314087\t1335258\t的部分因為剛莊瑞雄也說相關數字的比例其實是不合理的那加害人廚藥我認為應該衛福部會知道要花一些力氣再去調整進行相關資源的調整還有相關宣導這個部分可不可以讓衛福部回應一下因為確實最近國人覺得很擔心土城那個事情其實是加害人的部分\n1336418\t1351047\t包委員我們現在確實就是說陳副委員剛剛所說這裡面有這個相對人還有被害人的部分那這兩部分我們都必須要作為相關處遇計畫那其實以這個土城這個案例其實他們其實他等於搬\n1352468\t1377693\t這一個搬到屏東的時候 屏東的社會處還有社工去做那這裡面我們未來也會請我們保護性社工這邊相關的處遇計畫必須我們的整個教育訓練我們會來應該要來強化應該加害人處遇計畫我們還有努力的空間 簡單的說就是這樣 好不好還有另外一個我也跟各位回報就是說其實另外一個最重要還是里長林長這個部分\n1380934\t1404077\t這個部分但是我們就要協助里長跟里長增加相關的知能還有協助他們的資源配套不然等到他開始有意識他開始有意識然後他開始很雞婆而且雞婆是好心的他開始好心的去做這些事情的時候他可能也會開始感到無助因為後續的資源要減少這個部分我們就一起努力最後一個庇護所因為現在多處偏遠地帶我們如何改善\n1406302\t1419099\t因為就降低大家入住的意願我們如何保護被害人人身安全這個部分我們現在目前其實跟這個社會住宅這邊我們也會來合作譬如說像林口林口社宅那邊就有一個相關計畫再給我們\n1420441\t1439878\t好 謝謝最後我的結論講得很清楚主席我要結論我的結論就是這些我剛剛所有問的問題你們都回答已經有做到的跟還要努力的我們就繼續努力相關資料我們辦公室會再跟你們出所資就是人力的部分申請保護令還有加爆防護措施三個月內好不好好 謝謝主席非常感謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席\n好 兩位午安那我想今天非常多委員都關注相關的比例跟數字我們就直接切入重點其實所有的問政跟包含主席兼排這個專報我們都是希望憾事不要再發生所以如果我們來看一些比較細緻的東西我們就要往這裡去想\n如何做 做哪些事情然後哪些事我們漏掉導致憾事一再的發生那我們今天也許就有機會來討論了我知道你們其實很快因應這個土城的事件你們立刻召開了跨部會的會議我想這個動作非常的快那我現在想要知道一下因為還沒有看到會議記錄可不可以簡單的說明一下我們只有看到新聞稿目前是說有五個決議包含第一個強化第一線專業人員的教育訓練還有嚴寧跨峽通報跟應變機制\n盤點刑事程序的銜接處理針對雙項加害或被害案件的提出新指引還有最後提供完整的心理輔導跟支持這是目前在新聞稿看見的可不可以讓你們簡單補充說明一下後續在這件事情上如何跟第一線的工作人員可以做對接可以希望憾事不再發生\n非常感謝委員對於我們這一個五大決議的一個關心那我剛剛也有在回應其他委員的時候我特別談到這五點裡面我個人因為我當天也是主席我認為這裡面這一次如果以後要避免其實最重要事實上就是以這個保護令為主它的整個核發還有整個羈押的一個情況的時候我們要提供就是左邊就是警政的這個同仁還有右邊的就是這個社工同仁必須要提出必要\n的一些相關的這個訊息讓這一個檢察官還有讓法官他在裁定整個這一個所謂保護令的時候有必要的necessary information那這裡面的必要的這個訊息包括幾個部分第一個事件發生頻率第二個家庭背景的這一個陳述還有第三個剛剛所說的情節輕重第四個就是剛剛我想那個司法院副秘書長有特別提到我們的\n這個整個高風險的這個量表TVDA的這個量表那我想這一些其實基本上都應該第一時間趕快競速而且完整的提供給這一個檢察官來做相關的這一個整個這個判斷好\n如果你要談到保護令我們等一下確實會談到這個部分當然我們看到第一線還有包含你們跨部會的會議結論如果根據剛剛次長你所說的事件然後背景然後情節輕重高風險良表這些東西可以透過警政跟社工的努力快速交給檢察官做出後續的判斷那我們來看一下因為過去當然有一些憾事這些憾事我們認為他們呈現了一些\n不同的現在我們所看見不同的缺漏我們來一一檢視一下這些缺漏有沒有可能在你剛剛說的那些措施當中去補足回來第一個基隆五歲小孩被爸爸把枕頭悶殺可是其實當時母親已經有提出這個保護令的申請可是他其實遇到的是保護令的空窗期但因為新的事件我想我就不再多說\n還有相關人員的知能跟敏感度甚至我都會說這個相關人員其實還包含這個孩子的媽媽因為媽媽在通報的時候其實沒有通報說孩子有受虐跟受到家暴的情況所以這裡的相關人員我甚至還想提到的是被害人本身他們意識到他的孩子也需要求助第二個是化室的槍殺案這個女子她拒絕保護令所以我們認為這裡的問題可能潛在的問題是其實資源有到位了大家也都知道要投入\n可是當事人拒絕的時候國家有沒有什麼樣的角度跟可能性我們想要積極協助他的時候我們可以怎麼做第三個新聞是才剛撤銷保護令就被前男友砍殺這個內湖的案子我們看見他潛在的問題是保護令失效或者是撤回後的人身安全行為人處遇跟輔導機制我認為這題就相對複雜囉包含保護令失效撤回後人身安全還有行為人處遇跟輔導機制\n剛剛莊委員也提到輔導人行為人處於的事情最後一個新聞是國民法官審新北沙夫案幾乎被判刑七年兩個月他長期被行為人制約早上王逸傳委員又提到這些事情也就是說\n我們不要看個案我們來看通案全面的盤點新聞背後所看見的潛在問題回應到您剛剛說的五大會議結論跟後續的相關配套你認為我們有沒有機會把這一塊慢慢補起來當然今天時間有限那我就先提出我們辦公室研究跟觀察\n可是確實我們是希望你們的跨部會會議跟後續的政策推動跟你剛剛說的所有配套可以未來再看到類似事情或是避免類似事情發生的時候這些潛在的問題可以獲得解決當然我知道都還要再努力但我們來看一個其實這個我也很想跟您討論是\n這個統計數字是來自行政院的網站統計資料我不確定你有沒有看過不過沒關係我跟你說第一個這個數字可以看到的是家暴的通報數量連年上升而各式各樣家暴的原因也都持續上升其中親密關係佔了五成\n我在跟我的同仁讨论的时候我认为有一个很重要的原因是大家的意识提升了所以我们就通报但也有可能这是其中一个原因第二个原因是双向都有通报就是加害人跟被害人在一个有争执的情况下都会通报我们做过研究你们一直点头代表我们想的是对的所以我不知道你们卫福部怎么看这个数字当然我们有我们的解读我也想听听看次长您的看法\n陳如剛委員所說我們從1998年通過之後27年其實大家的整個這個家庭就是整個這個防暴意識提升我也要跟委員報告就是說另外一方面我們保護師其實在各個社區我們都有推那個所謂的防暴社區的這個觀念然後來訓練這一個防暴師來做這個廣為宣講那其實剛剛陳如剛委員所說的這個上升其實另外一個確實還有一個所謂互為通報\n這一個的部分就以這次土城的這個案件為例其實事實上他自己本身他甚至他自己他也申請這個所謂保護力是這個所以我剛說的雙向通報的問題沒有錯我剛很開心聽到您說防暴師因為我確實認識好幾位防暴師講師確實他們告訴我們第一線的狀況是有講了之後真的還蠻多人就意識到說原來這個情況是屬於防暴的家暴的內容所以可能通報上升這個時候問題就來了\n要問的是那第一線社工現在你們的盤點是我其實懷疑會不會嚴重人數不足報告委員確實啦我就是說因為通報案案件上升那我也那個我們必須要承認這個現實是沒錯就是說我們按照規定我們應該是像那個成人保護的話應該是1比30是那兒童保護的話應該1比25那現在目前確實都有案社工案量這個過多過多但是我們找不到這麼多社工\n所以我們現在目前在社安網第二期 2.0的部分我們現在就是要來也跟行政院這邊報上去就是說我們現在要趕快來補足這部分的這個人力的這個gap那當然也就是說社工這個各學校那個社工的整個這一個教育的部分我們也要趕快來做相關的這個培訓工作好我很樂意我很開心聽到你剛剛說的你們已經跟行政院討論在社安網2.0但是我可以確定一下因為我聽這個\n你們大概預計什麼時候可以逐步跟上這個數字1比30或者是1比25你們的規劃沒關係還是可以讓市長來回覆謝謝謝謝委員關心其實處理交報案件這麼大量的通報其實我們更要精準的把人力用在該做對的事情上面所以我們的分級分流的部分做了一些處理那包括用替打量表來這個\n評估或者是我們先做評估篩選出高危機案件然後把人力用在這個上頭那另外我們也結合民間團體我們一共每年有37個民間團體幫我們做這個親密關係風險低的\n中低度但是有意願有必有需要服務的案件我們有37個團體在幫在幫政府在後端協助這些婦女讓他們能夠脫離暴力所以單純看1比30我覺得是可能還可以再看資源的這個部件以及這個案件的分流處理這樣的一個機制可能更有意義\n從第一線工作角度我完全支持您剛說的這麼多細緻的處理確實也可以比較直接幫忙到所有的當事人只是說確實第一時間社會大眾所看見的是人力比的匱乏那如果行政院有其意願也有其資源當然我認為立法院絕對是大力支持\n只是說我們如何真的可以把人補到位而且補到位之後因為前陣子還有一個文章說其實社安網前一個版本的困境是社安 社工變很多了資源好像也到位可是好像彼此就固著在自己的工作崗位上彼此之間的合作可能就少了一些過往的經驗那我相信也許在未來社安網2.0的版本當中社工跟社工之間在服務同一個案子的過程當中如何緊密的接軌互助合作\n我認為不會只有在兒少案件當然因為我在胃環每次都問你們兒少可是今天在這邊我們問的是家暴案件剛剛司長你說的我都認同但後續的接軌我知道也不要只追求人力我們一起努力好不好我再補充一下主席都是他一直說喔這樣\n我們現在要分級分流這個高風險我們現在目前用TIVA量表大概測出來大概10%所以我們會把我們的這個測工主力會放置重兵在這一個所謂的10%的部分\n這樣我就要幫社工多爭取如果是高風險我相信社工的工作量跟心理負擔其實也很大我們後續也要積極協助這些第一線的社工心理素質不要只有風險加急啦市長我們在協助他們心理整備那個素質的時候也要給予協助\n應該要來強化這個我們後續再跟你們討論好來下一張接下來看司法院統計關於家暴通報還有保護令事件一樣是持續攀升的那這個是司法院的資料申請保護令的案件我們來看一下第一個司法院現在一年有三萬多件的申請案\n那原因我們剛剛已經都說了嘛但是我其實擔心的是那第一線的法官他們過勞的情況其實不是只有在家暴案件工作量這麼大我們之前在屢次的質詢當中我們都不斷不斷的說現在我想知道不知道你手上有沒有資料平均一個庭或者是一個法官在相關保護令要扛多少如果以每一個庭或者是法官來算\n沒關係 沒有嘛沒有算這個平均但是我說的一年三萬多件是對的嘛對好 但這個數字我相信你們應該有來自第一線的回饋跟聲音體感上可不可以告訴我們他們的工作量質感上應該是壓力很大然後案件也很多\n讓我們知道實際的狀況我去年從士林地院過來我在士林地院我們是六個法官加一個庭堂辦四分之一大概是6.25股的能力我們一年的通常保護令案件我離開的那一年112年年底我沒有記錯應該是1300件就光通常保護令所以我們一個法官大概一個月要收\n六點二五一千三嘛所以一個法官一年收兩百件左右然後你可能他上半天也大概就兩百多天都還沒有算他加班時間然後一個月大概他還有其他對他還有其他我當時在士林地院的家事庭整個總收案量一個法官是八十件左右一個月一個月其實算多對不對\n過多 超多很多很多你很客氣 我都已經幫你說超多了啦其實是超多我要講的是第一線的這個量所以我相信這邊可不可以請司法院再回覆一下副秘書長你們有沒有打算在這個事情上做什麼樣的調整 員額的部分或者是人力的部分\n謝謝委員關心這個事情因為司法院 各法院人力負擔非常非常沉重我們的總元額法全國是一萬五千人這個數字馬上就已經要報表了所以說我們的法官必須是在三年前的時候就開始要算今年的考試是三年之後到位\n我們現在就是說也陷入一個那個困境因為就是加一個那個法官的話其他還有書記官跟法助還有其他像其他的這些那個輔助人立法警什麼的那你們全部算在這15000是是是而且是全國\n對那所以就是說你要加那個法官的話才能夠承受這些那個案件可是加了法官會不會就排擠其他的工作人員正當我們今天要上台質詢的時候我們還看到一個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理我沒有在罵你髒話我說那個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理是他們就有在說你們最近是不是有個會議要把約聘改成冤用是不是因為元額的問題是這個可以後續再說是\n但是我今天這題就是要我不知道我們可以怎麼解決我們可不可以有機會回過頭來討論種源額的問題你們自己這邊的傾向我們當然可以回過頭再跟人種討論但我想知道你們自己在第一線希望反映給人種的聲音會是什麼\n是 這也是司法院的政策那我們現在正在就是說很精準的就是做這個人力評估啊也有委託就是外面的這些學校那個教授來進到那個司法院就是精準的去幫我們看我們這些人力的那個評估到底還需要增加那個多少人然後有這些客觀那個數據去爭取大概多久要算出來\n我们基本的资料都已经有现在会诊资料我们希望可以立刻就是去争取支持拜托去争取因为光是靠北助理法官那个事情都已经在讲法官助理的部分了那更何况还有法官还有刚刚来自第一线的同仁的声音卫福部先请回不好意思谢谢所以司法院这边稍等我一下好所以我希望这个数字可以很快出来你刚刚说你们已经找专家学者做了研究我们办公室可以跟你们要这个资料吗\n還是你們可以讓我們大概知道一下你們的計算跟你們希望跟人總討論的部分嗎這我們會去彙整對好不好好謝謝接下來那我們來看一下如果是這個案子你看人這麼多都還不要談通保戰保還有緊急保護令各自的一些狀況可是如果我們把人事的部分解決我們現在來看我現在想問的是第一個保護令常常被詬病的時間就是因為日期太長那我認為人力不足絕對是一個部分\n那你剛剛說已經你們希望增加人力所以這個我已經聽到答案了那可是第二個暫時保護令當時我們設立的目的是希望保護遭受家庭暴力的被害人那有一個所謂暫時性的措施這個緊急性的臨時保護措施可是目前我們現在算了這個時間給我們的數字是22天我很想知道這個22天是怎麼樣\n就是這個程序為什麼需要這麼久還是他其實還是卡在人力的問題戰保的部分戰保的部分現在平均值是22天沒關係讓後面的同仁回答沒有關係好謝謝委員我是中中委員廳長是這一部分是這樣根據加法法的規定這個鑽石保護令它是得因為市政不足得開庭審理是\n那當我們的受理這個案子的時候一審查就會通知當事人補一些資料但是遲遲未補所以就會定期所以因為有定期所以產生他這個就是所謂市民啊優勢證據的資料不夠才會拖到20幾天一般的通常都在7到10天你說暫保的部分暫保的部分平均是7到9暫保7到10天不開庭就發出去了好\n所以我們的22天的數字之所以會這樣是包括開庭的全部把它結案的可是戰保不需要開庭不是嗎它是寫得開庭所以我們去調資料的時候就是一直沒有補進來所以不足以市民有危險性的態度所以剛剛衛福部才會說資料要趕快進來最剛開始的時候\n那我想後續確實需要衛福部協助司法院這邊好來謝謝那緊急保護的因為通常是法規規定是一天以內對不對24小時那4小時然後現在我們一年大概100多件對不對好那我很好奇喔如果中間我們遇到空窗期該怎麼辦我剛說的戰保這個空窗期還沒發戰保對對對對我現在說是還沒發戰保的空窗期我們有沒有什麼因應或者是保護的措施\n請說 請說委員好 我做一個報告齁如果緊急保護令的話不論何時我們懲判的法官這個我知道四小時要發那麼現在是戰保有些直接就申請進來那有些是申請通保依規定我們看到那個量表那個危險量表跟這個人格性格有暴力我們是依職權發戰保\n就是通報 醫治權先發先醫治權發這個戰報這個是法有明文所以法官的訓練在這個地方很重要但是資料如果我們可以彙整就是說網絡可以彙整立即就會取得\n實務上的做法我聽懂了但是你剛剛說沒有空窗期真的嗎不會有任何一個案件有空窗期嗎我所謂的空窗期就是只在發出這個保護令之前就算它是戰保發出保護令之前還是你們認為相關案件它原本如果是申請戰保但是你們認為事態緊急你們其實會自行改成緊急保護令是這樣嗎\n所以就不會有空窗期不是因為緊急保護令只有機關可以申請是那暫時保護令當事人跟機關都可以申請對那現在剛剛的空窗期會有是在通保通保在進行中如果我們收集到的危險資料不夠所以法官就沒有依之前核發馬上介入的保護叫暫保沒有發暫保這個就空窗了\n對 那怎麼辦嘛 我現在就問你怎麼辦那我們有設計了三種 三套給全國家事法官來進行第一個就是立即連結這個駐法院的家暴服務處的社工立即去啟動這個做一個安全計畫給法官就是有哪些危險性好 所以是第一個對 第一個第二個就是我們知道很多兒童都目睹那目睹暴力的時候 因為他\n這個發的戰保有禁止接觸那就沒有辦法看到小孩所以我們會立即發函給那個個管社工就是加防中心的請他提出迅速提出三到五天提出一個最快的訪視跟監督室會面計畫來保護兒童\n那第三個就是說如果風險裡面他是藥物亂用人格異常等等那我們會立即啟動這個主動來做進行這個所謂的處理計畫鑑定同時呢處理計畫鑑定的同時也發函依法律規定給加防官就是我們分局裡面有加防官請他安排這個這個所謂轄區派出所的巡邏跟這個安全維護當然第一個這個\n所謂做交報服務做安全計畫裡面可能就已經有啟動跟各館社工去所謂的庇護跟這個安全離開庇護保密這個措手 以上好 謝謝你回答這麼仔細我其實就是要聽你講這個因為我認為剛剛空窗期的部分一定有你們已經知道的你們已經注意到所以你們做了一些預防措施但是現在社會大眾可能不理解因為\n一定還是會有一些少數個案出現那個所謂空窗期那所以在您剛剛報告三個做法當中我們後續再來跟你們討論還有哪些可能性是我們之後再透過法規範或是相關措施來補上我們今天就不再用這邊的時間但您剛剛回覆我那三個樣態聽起來可能是一般人之前還不知道但現在我們讓大家知道後續還沒有的我們再補上好最後一個\n當事人通報意願其實也是我剛剛有提到的部分那因為法不入家門家醜不外揚這樣的概念我們看到相關數字是家暴當事人平均要4.2年才願意通報我認為你們一定有做相關的宣導剛剛說有防暴時的部分我當然希望後續可以持續加強因為我時間有限我就不再多說另外一個其實我還是要提醒你們加害人除獄的\n的部分因為剛莊瑞雄也說相關數字的比例其實是不合理的那加害人廚藥我認為應該衛福部會知道要花一些力氣再去調整進行相關資源的調整還有相關宣導這個部分可不可以讓衛福部回應一下因為確實最近國人覺得很擔心土城那個事情其實是加害人的部分\n包委員我們現在確實就是說陳副委員剛剛所說這裡面有這個相對人還有被害人的部分那這兩部分我們都必須要作為相關處遇計畫那其實以這個土城這個案例其實他們其實他等於搬\n這一個搬到屏東的時候 屏東的社會處還有社工去做那這裡面我們未來也會請我們保護性社工這邊相關的處遇計畫必須我們的整個教育訓練我們會來應該要來強化應該加害人處遇計畫我們還有努力的空間 簡單的說就是這樣 好不好還有另外一個我也跟各位回報就是說其實另外一個最重要還是里長林長這個部分\n這個部分但是我們就要協助里長跟里長增加相關的知能還有協助他們的資源配套不然等到他開始有意識他開始有意識然後他開始很雞婆而且雞婆是好心的他開始好心的去做這些事情的時候他可能也會開始感到無助因為後續的資源要減少這個部分我們就一起努力最後一個庇護所因為現在多處偏遠地帶我們如何改善\n因為就降低大家入住的意願我們如何保護被害人人身安全這個部分我們現在目前其實跟這個社會住宅這邊我們也會來合作譬如說像林口林口社宅那邊就有一個相關計畫再給我們\n好 謝謝最後我的結論講得很清楚主席我要結論我的結論就是這些我剛剛所有問的問題你們都回答已經有做到的跟還要努力的我們就繼續努力相關資料我們辦公室會再跟你們出所資就是人力的部分申請保護令還有加爆防護措施三個月內好不好好 謝謝主席非常感謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:18.639 --> 00:18.819\n主席\n\n00:30.834 --> 00:47.729\n好兩位午安那我想今天非常多委員都關注相關的比例跟數字我們就直接切入重點其實所有的問政跟包含主席兼排這個專報我們都是希望憾事不要再發生所以如果我們來看一些比較細緻的東西我們就要往這裡去想\n\n00:48.490 --> 01:11.677\n如何做做哪些事情然後哪些事我們漏掉導致憾事一再的發生那我們今天也許就有機會來討論了我知道你們其實很快因應這個土城的事件你們立刻召開了跨部會的會議我想這個動作非常的快那我現在想要知道一下因為還沒有看到會議記錄可不可以簡單的說明一下我們只有看到新聞稿目前是說有五個決議包含第一個強化第一線專業人員的教育訓練還有嚴寧跨峽通報跟應變機制\n\n01:16.539 --> 01:35.178\n盤點刑事程序的銜接處理針對雙項加害或被害案件的提出新指引還有最後提供完整的心理輔導跟支持這是目前在新聞稿看見的可不可以讓你們簡單補充說明一下後續在這件事情上如何跟第一線的工作人員可以做對接可以希望憾事不再發生\n\n01:36.089 --> 02:05.729\n非常感謝委員對於我們這一個五大決議的一個關心那我剛剛也有在回應其他委員的時候我特別談到這五點裡面我個人因為我當天也是主席我認為這裡面這一次如果以後要避免其實最重要事實上就是以這個保護令為主它的整個核發還有整個羈押的一個情況的時候我們要提供就是左邊就是警政的這個同仁還有右邊的就是這個社工同仁必須要提出必要\n\n02:06.469 --> 02:30.369\n的一些相關的這個訊息讓這一個檢察官還有讓法官他在裁定整個這一個所謂保護令的時候有必要的necessaryinformation那這裡面的必要的這個訊息包括幾個部分第一個事件發生頻率第二個家庭背景的這一個陳述還有第三個剛剛所說的情節輕重第四個就是剛剛我想那個司法院副秘書長有特別提到我們的\n\n02:34.137 --> 02:47.575\n這個整個高風險的這個量表TVDA的這個量表那我想這一些其實基本上都應該第一時間趕快競速而且完整的提供給這一個檢察官來做相關的這一個整個這個判斷好\n\n02:48.977 --> 03:10.465\n如果你要談到保護令我們等一下確實會談到這個部分當然我們看到第一線還有包含你們跨部會的會議結論如果根據剛剛次長你所說的事件然後背景然後情節輕重高風險良表這些東西可以透過警政跟社工的努力快速交給檢察官做出後續的判斷那我們來看一下因為過去當然有一些憾事這些憾事我們認為他們呈現了一些\n\n03:13.066 --> 03:33.354\n不同的現在我們所看見不同的缺漏我們來一一檢視一下這些缺漏有沒有可能在你剛剛說的那些措施當中去補足回來第一個基隆五歲小孩被爸爸把枕頭悶殺可是其實當時母親已經有提出這個保護令的申請可是他其實遇到的是保護令的空窗期但因為新的事件我想我就不再多說\n\n03:34.034 --> 04:03.110\n還有相關人員的知能跟敏感度甚至我都會說這個相關人員其實還包含這個孩子的媽媽因為媽媽在通報的時候其實沒有通報說孩子有受虐跟受到家暴的情況所以這裡的相關人員我甚至還想提到的是被害人本身他們意識到他的孩子也需要求助第二個是化室的槍殺案這個女子她拒絕保護令所以我們認為這裡的問題可能潛在的問題是其實資源有到位了大家也都知道要投入\n\n04:03.570 --> 04:31.315\n可是當事人拒絕的時候國家有沒有什麼樣的角度跟可能性我們想要積極協助他的時候我們可以怎麼做第三個新聞是才剛撤銷保護令就被前男友砍殺這個內湖的案子我們看見他潛在的問題是保護令失效或者是撤回後的人身安全行為人處遇跟輔導機制我認為這題就相對複雜囉包含保護令失效撤回後人身安全還有行為人處遇跟輔導機制\n\n04:33.156 --> 04:46.731\n剛剛莊委員也提到輔導人行為人處於的事情最後一個新聞是國民法官審新北沙夫案幾乎被判刑七年兩個月他長期被行為人制約早上王逸傳委員又提到這些事情也就是說\n\n04:47.412 --> 05:07.729\n我們不要看個案我們來看通案全面的盤點新聞背後所看見的潛在問題回應到您剛剛說的五大會議結論跟後續的相關配套你認為我們有沒有機會把這一塊慢慢補起來當然今天時間有限那我就先提出我們辦公室研究跟觀察\n\n05:08.209 --> 05:27.038\n可是確實我們是希望你們的跨部會會議跟後續的政策推動跟你剛剛說的所有配套可以未來再看到類似事情或是避免類似事情發生的時候這些潛在的問題可以獲得解決當然我知道都還要再努力但我們來看一個其實這個我也很想跟您討論是\n\n05:29.496 --> 05:44.975\n這個統計數字是來自行政院的網站統計資料我不確定你有沒有看過不過沒關係我跟你說第一個這個數字可以看到的是家暴的通報數量連年上升而各式各樣家暴的原因也都持續上升其中親密關係佔了五成\n\n05:47.117 --> 06:14.487\n我在跟我的同仁讨论的时候我认为有一个很重要的原因是大家的意识提升了所以我们就通报但也有可能这是其中一个原因第二个原因是双向都有通报就是加害人跟被害人在一个有争执的情况下都会通报我们做过研究你们一直点头代表我们想的是对的所以我不知道你们卫福部怎么看这个数字当然我们有我们的解读我也想听听看次长您的看法\n\n06:15.547 --> 06:40.816\n陳如剛委員所說我們從1998年通過之後27年其實大家的整個這個家庭就是整個這個防暴意識提升我也要跟委員報告就是說另外一方面我們保護師其實在各個社區我們都有推那個所謂的防暴社區的這個觀念然後來訓練這一個防暴師來做這個廣為宣講那其實剛剛陳如剛委員所說的這個上升其實另外一個確實還有一個所謂互為通報\n\n06:42.116 --> 07:07.067\n這一個的部分就以這次土城的這個案件為例其實事實上他自己本身他甚至他自己他也申請這個所謂保護力是這個所以我剛說的雙向通報的問題沒有錯我剛很開心聽到您說防暴師因為我確實認識好幾位防暴師講師確實他們告訴我們第一線的狀況是有講了之後真的還蠻多人就意識到說原來這個情況是屬於防暴的家暴的內容所以可能通報上升這個時候問題就來了\n\n07:09.048 --> 07:38.731\n要問的是那第一線社工現在你們的盤點是我其實懷疑會不會嚴重人數不足報告委員確實啦我就是說因為通報案案件上升那我也那個我們必須要承認這個現實是沒錯就是說我們按照規定我們應該是像那個成人保護的話應該是1比30是那兒童保護的話應該1比25那現在目前確實都有案社工案量這個過多過多但是我們找不到這麼多社工\n\n07:39.851 --> 08:04.978\n所以我們現在目前在社安網第二期2.0的部分我們現在就是要來也跟行政院這邊報上去就是說我們現在要趕快來補足這部分的這個人力的這個gap那當然也就是說社工這個各學校那個社工的整個這一個教育的部分我們也要趕快來做相關的這個培訓工作好我很樂意我很開心聽到你剛剛說的你們已經跟行政院討論在社安網2.0但是我可以確定一下因為我聽這個\n\n08:06.218 --> 08:33.005\n你們大概預計什麼時候可以逐步跟上這個數字1比30或者是1比25你們的規劃沒關係還是可以讓市長來回覆謝謝謝謝委員關心其實處理交報案件這麼大量的通報其實我們更要精準的把人力用在該做對的事情上面所以我們的分級分流的部分做了一些處理那包括用替打量表來這個\n\n08:35.085 --> 08:45.152\n評估或者是我們先做評估篩選出高危機案件然後把人力用在這個上頭那另外我們也結合民間團體我們一共每年有37個民間團體幫我們做這個親密關係風險低的\n\n08:50.216 --> 09:15.031\n中低度但是有意願有必有需要服務的案件我們有37個團體在幫在幫政府在後端協助這些婦女讓他們能夠脫離暴力所以單純看1比30我覺得是可能還可以再看資源的這個部件以及這個案件的分流處理這樣的一個機制可能更有意義\n\n09:16.232 --> 09:34.711\n從第一線工作角度我完全支持您剛說的這麼多細緻的處理確實也可以比較直接幫忙到所有的當事人只是說確實第一時間社會大眾所看見的是人力比的匱乏那如果行政院有其意願也有其資源當然我認為立法院絕對是大力支持\n\n09:35.131 --> 10:04.083\n只是說我們如何真的可以把人補到位而且補到位之後因為前陣子還有一個文章說其實社安網前一個版本的困境是社安社工變很多了資源好像也到位可是好像彼此就固著在自己的工作崗位上彼此之間的合作可能就少了一些過往的經驗那我相信也許在未來社安網2.0的版本當中社工跟社工之間在服務同一個案子的過程當中如何緊密的接軌互助合作\n\n10:04.463 --> 10:22.315\n我認為不會只有在兒少案件當然因為我在胃環每次都問你們兒少可是今天在這邊我們問的是家暴案件剛剛司長你說的我都認同但後續的接軌我知道也不要只追求人力我們一起努力好不好我再補充一下主席都是他一直說喔這樣\n\n10:23.396 --> 10:37.091\n我們現在要分級分流這個高風險我們現在目前用TIVA量表大概測出來大概10%所以我們會把我們的這個測工主力會放置重兵在這一個所謂的10%的部分\n\n10:38.353 --> 10:55.574\n這樣我就要幫社工多爭取如果是高風險我相信社工的工作量跟心理負擔其實也很大我們後續也要積極協助這些第一線的社工心理素質不要只有風險加急啦市長我們在協助他們心理整備那個素質的時候也要給予協助\n\n10:57.095 --> 11:14.660\n應該要來強化這個我們後續再跟你們討論好來下一張接下來看司法院統計關於家暴通報還有保護令事件一樣是持續攀升的那這個是司法院的資料申請保護令的案件我們來看一下第一個司法院現在一年有三萬多件的申請案\n\n11:15.620 --> 11:38.135\n那原因我們剛剛已經都說了嘛但是我其實擔心的是那第一線的法官他們過勞的情況其實不是只有在家暴案件工作量這麼大我們之前在屢次的質詢當中我們都不斷不斷的說現在我想知道不知道你手上有沒有資料平均一個庭或者是一個法官在相關保護令要扛多少如果以每一個庭或者是法官來算\n\n11:39.721 --> 11:56.446\n沒關係沒有嘛沒有算這個平均但是我說的一年三萬多件是對的嘛對好但這個數字我相信你們應該有來自第一線的回饋跟聲音體感上可不可以告訴我們他們的工作量質感上應該是壓力很大然後案件也很多\n\n12:01.629 --> 12:22.440\n讓我們知道實際的狀況我去年從士林地院過來我在士林地院我們是六個法官加一個庭堂辦四分之一大概是6.25股的能力我們一年的通常保護令案件我離開的那一年112年年底我沒有記錯應該是1300件就光通常保護令所以我們一個法官大概一個月要收\n\n12:26.111 --> 12:46.727\n六點二五一千三嘛所以一個法官一年收兩百件左右然後你可能他上半天也大概就兩百多天都還沒有算他加班時間然後一個月大概他還有其他對他還有其他我當時在士林地院的家事庭整個總收案量一個法官是八十件左右一個月一個月其實算多對不對\n\n12:48.309 --> 13:08.389\n過多超多很多很多你很客氣我都已經幫你說超多了啦其實是超多我要講的是第一線的這個量所以我相信這邊可不可以請司法院再回覆一下副秘書長你們有沒有打算在這個事情上做什麼樣的調整員額的部分或者是人力的部分\n\n13:10.049 --> 13:34.084\n謝謝委員關心這個事情因為司法院各法院人力負擔非常非常沉重我們的總元額法全國是一萬五千人這個數字馬上就已經要報表了所以說我們的法官必須是在三年前的時候就開始要算今年的考試是三年之後到位\n\n13:35.185 --> 13:50.751\n我們現在就是說也陷入一個那個困境因為就是加一個那個法官的話其他還有書記官跟法助還有其他像其他的這些那個輔助人立法警什麼的那你們全部算在這15000是是是而且是全國\n\n13:52.232 --> 14:16.809\n對那所以就是說你要加那個法官的話才能夠承受這些那個案件可是加了法官會不會就排擠其他的工作人員正當我們今天要上台質詢的時候我們還看到一個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理我沒有在罵你髒話我說那個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理是他們就有在說你們最近是不是有個會議要把約聘改成冤用是不是因為元額的問題是這個可以後續再說是\n\n14:17.669 --> 14:32.763\n但是我今天這題就是要我不知道我們可以怎麼解決我們可不可以有機會回過頭來討論種源額的問題你們自己這邊的傾向我們當然可以回過頭再跟人種討論但我想知道你們自己在第一線希望反映給人種的聲音會是什麼\n\n14:33.103 --> 14:53.565\n是這也是司法院的政策那我們現在正在就是說很精準的就是做這個人力評估啊也有委託就是外面的這些學校那個教授來進到那個司法院就是精準的去幫我們看我們這些人力的那個評估到底還需要增加那個多少人然後有這些客觀那個數據去爭取大概多久要算出來\n\n14:54.640 --> 15:22.787\n我们基本的资料都已经有现在会诊资料我们希望可以立刻就是去争取支持拜托去争取因为光是靠北助理法官那个事情都已经在讲法官助理的部分了那更何况还有法官还有刚刚来自第一线的同仁的声音卫福部先请回不好意思谢谢所以司法院这边稍等我一下好所以我希望这个数字可以很快出来你刚刚说你们已经找专家学者做了研究我们办公室可以跟你们要这个资料吗\n\n15:23.992 --> 15:51.011\n還是你們可以讓我們大概知道一下你們的計算跟你們希望跟人總討論的部分嗎這我們會去彙整對好不好好謝謝接下來那我們來看一下如果是這個案子你看人這麼多都還不要談通保戰保還有緊急保護令各自的一些狀況可是如果我們把人事的部分解決我們現在來看我現在想問的是第一個保護令常常被詬病的時間就是因為日期太長那我認為人力不足絕對是一個部分\n\n15:51.972 --> 16:08.744\n那你剛剛說已經你們希望增加人力所以這個我已經聽到答案了那可是第二個暫時保護令當時我們設立的目的是希望保護遭受家庭暴力的被害人那有一個所謂暫時性的措施這個緊急性的臨時保護措施可是目前我們現在算了這個時間給我們的數字是22天我很想知道這個22天是怎麼樣\n\n16:15.356 --> 16:42.149\n就是這個程序為什麼需要這麼久還是他其實還是卡在人力的問題戰保的部分戰保的部分現在平均值是22天沒關係讓後面的同仁回答沒有關係好謝謝委員我是中中委員廳長是這一部分是這樣根據加法法的規定這個鑽石保護令它是得因為市政不足得開庭審理是\n\n16:42.449 --> 17:07.936\n那當我們的受理這個案子的時候一審查就會通知當事人補一些資料但是遲遲未補所以就會定期所以因為有定期所以產生他這個就是所謂市民啊優勢證據的資料不夠才會拖到20幾天一般的通常都在7到10天你說暫保的部分暫保的部分平均是7到9暫保7到10天不開庭就發出去了好\n\n17:08.977 --> 17:21.569\n所以我們的22天的數字之所以會這樣是包括開庭的全部把它結案的可是戰保不需要開庭不是嗎它是寫得開庭所以我們去調資料的時候就是一直沒有補進來所以不足以市民有危險性的態度所以剛剛衛福部才會說資料要趕快進來最剛開始的時候\n\n17:30.578 --> 17:51.909\n那我想後續確實需要衛福部協助司法院這邊好來謝謝那緊急保護的因為通常是法規規定是一天以內對不對24小時那4小時然後現在我們一年大概100多件對不對好那我很好奇喔如果中間我們遇到空窗期該怎麼辦我剛說的戰保這個空窗期還沒發戰保對對對對我現在說是還沒發戰保的空窗期我們有沒有什麼因應或者是保護的措施\n\n18:01.013 --> 18:23.440\n請說請說委員好我做一個報告齁如果緊急保護令的話不論何時我們懲判的法官這個我知道四小時要發那麼現在是戰保有些直接就申請進來那有些是申請通保依規定我們看到那個量表那個危險量表跟這個人格性格有暴力我們是依職權發戰保\n\n18:25.040 --> 18:39.096\n就是通報醫治權先發先醫治權發這個戰報這個是法有明文所以法官的訓練在這個地方很重要但是資料如果我們可以彙整就是說網絡可以彙整立即就會取得\n\n18:41.137 --> 19:00.585\n實務上的做法我聽懂了但是你剛剛說沒有空窗期真的嗎不會有任何一個案件有空窗期嗎我所謂的空窗期就是只在發出這個保護令之前就算它是戰保發出保護令之前還是你們認為相關案件它原本如果是申請戰保但是你們認為事態緊急你們其實會自行改成緊急保護令是這樣嗎\n\n19:01.565 --> 19:26.344\n所以就不會有空窗期不是因為緊急保護令只有機關可以申請是那暫時保護令當事人跟機關都可以申請對那現在剛剛的空窗期會有是在通保通保在進行中如果我們收集到的危險資料不夠所以法官就沒有依之前核發馬上介入的保護叫暫保沒有發暫保這個就空窗了\n\n19:26.904 --> 19:53.223\n對那怎麼辦嘛我現在就問你怎麼辦那我們有設計了三種三套給全國家事法官來進行第一個就是立即連結這個駐法院的家暴服務處的社工立即去啟動這個做一個安全計畫給法官就是有哪些危險性好所以是第一個對第一個第二個就是我們知道很多兒童都目睹那目睹暴力的時候因為他\n\n19:54.403 --> 20:07.750\n這個發的戰保有禁止接觸那就沒有辦法看到小孩所以我們會立即發函給那個個管社工就是加防中心的請他提出迅速提出三到五天提出一個最快的訪視跟監督室會面計畫來保護兒童\n\n20:11.952 --> 20:39.281\n那第三個就是說如果風險裡面他是藥物亂用人格異常等等那我們會立即啟動這個主動來做進行這個所謂的處理計畫鑑定同時呢處理計畫鑑定的同時也發函依法律規定給加防官就是我們分局裡面有加防官請他安排這個這個所謂轄區派出所的巡邏跟這個安全維護當然第一個這個\n\n20:40.961 --> 21:04.142\n所謂做交報服務做安全計畫裡面可能就已經有啟動跟各館社工去所謂的庇護跟這個安全離開庇護保密這個措手以上好謝謝你回答這麼仔細我其實就是要聽你講這個因為我認為剛剛空窗期的部分一定有你們已經知道的你們已經注意到所以你們做了一些預防措施但是現在社會大眾可能不理解因為\n\n21:04.682 --> 21:29.756\n一定還是會有一些少數個案出現那個所謂空窗期那所以在您剛剛報告三個做法當中我們後續再來跟你們討論還有哪些可能性是我們之後再透過法規範或是相關措施來補上我們今天就不再用這邊的時間但您剛剛回覆我那三個樣態聽起來可能是一般人之前還不知道但現在我們讓大家知道後續還沒有的我們再補上好最後一個\n\n21:30.636 --> 21:53.547\n當事人通報意願其實也是我剛剛有提到的部分那因為法不入家門家醜不外揚這樣的概念我們看到相關數字是家暴當事人平均要4.2年才願意通報我認為你們一定有做相關的宣導剛剛說有防暴時的部分我當然希望後續可以持續加強因為我時間有限我就不再多說另外一個其實我還是要提醒你們加害人除獄的\n\n21:54.087 --> 22:15.258\n的部分因為剛莊瑞雄也說相關數字的比例其實是不合理的那加害人廚藥我認為應該衛福部會知道要花一些力氣再去調整進行相關資源的調整還有相關宣導這個部分可不可以讓衛福部回應一下因為確實最近國人覺得很擔心土城那個事情其實是加害人的部分\n\n22:16.418 --> 22:31.047\n包委員我們現在確實就是說陳副委員剛剛所說這裡面有這個相對人還有被害人的部分那這兩部分我們都必須要作為相關處遇計畫那其實以這個土城這個案例其實他們其實他等於搬\n\n22:32.468 --> 22:57.693\n這一個搬到屏東的時候屏東的社會處還有社工去做那這裡面我們未來也會請我們保護性社工這邊相關的處遇計畫必須我們的整個教育訓練我們會來應該要來強化應該加害人處遇計畫我們還有努力的空間簡單的說就是這樣好不好還有另外一個我也跟各位回報就是說其實另外一個最重要還是里長林長這個部分\n\n23:00.934 --> 23:24.077\n這個部分但是我們就要協助里長跟里長增加相關的知能還有協助他們的資源配套不然等到他開始有意識他開始有意識然後他開始很雞婆而且雞婆是好心的他開始好心的去做這些事情的時候他可能也會開始感到無助因為後續的資源要減少這個部分我們就一起努力最後一個庇護所因為現在多處偏遠地帶我們如何改善\n\n23:26.302 --> 23:39.099\n因為就降低大家入住的意願我們如何保護被害人人身安全這個部分我們現在目前其實跟這個社會住宅這邊我們也會來合作譬如說像林口林口社宅那邊就有一個相關計畫再給我們\n\n23:40.441 --> 23:59.878\n好謝謝最後我的結論講得很清楚主席我要結論我的結論就是這些我剛剛所有問的問題你們都回答已經有做到的跟還要努力的我們就繼續努力相關資料我們辦公室會再跟你們出所資就是人力的部分申請保護令還有加爆防護措施三個月內好不好好謝謝主席非常感謝委員謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":18.639,"end":18.819,"text":"主席"},{"start":30.834,"end":47.729,"text":"好 兩位午安那我想今天非常多委員都關注相關的比例跟數字我們就直接切入重點其實所有的問政跟包含主席兼排這個專報我們都是希望憾事不要再發生所以如果我們來看一些比較細緻的東西我們就要往這裡去想"},{"start":48.49,"end":71.677,"text":"如何做 做哪些事情然後哪些事我們漏掉導致憾事一再的發生那我們今天也許就有機會來討論了我知道你們其實很快因應這個土城的事件你們立刻召開了跨部會的會議我想這個動作非常的快那我現在想要知道一下因為還沒有看到會議記錄可不可以簡單的說明一下我們只有看到新聞稿目前是說有五個決議包含第一個強化第一線專業人員的教育訓練還有嚴寧跨峽通報跟應變機制"},{"start":76.539,"end":95.178,"text":"盤點刑事程序的銜接處理針對雙項加害或被害案件的提出新指引還有最後提供完整的心理輔導跟支持這是目前在新聞稿看見的可不可以讓你們簡單補充說明一下後續在這件事情上如何跟第一線的工作人員可以做對接可以希望憾事不再發生"},{"start":96.089,"end":125.729,"text":"非常感謝委員對於我們這一個五大決議的一個關心那我剛剛也有在回應其他委員的時候我特別談到這五點裡面我個人因為我當天也是主席我認為這裡面這一次如果以後要避免其實最重要事實上就是以這個保護令為主它的整個核發還有整個羈押的一個情況的時候我們要提供就是左邊就是警政的這個同仁還有右邊的就是這個社工同仁必須要提出必要"},{"start":126.469,"end":150.369,"text":"的一些相關的這個訊息讓這一個檢察官還有讓法官他在裁定整個這一個所謂保護令的時候有必要的necessary information那這裡面的必要的這個訊息包括幾個部分第一個事件發生頻率第二個家庭背景的這一個陳述還有第三個剛剛所說的情節輕重第四個就是剛剛我想那個司法院副秘書長有特別提到我們的"},{"start":154.137,"end":167.575,"text":"這個整個高風險的這個量表TVDA的這個量表那我想這一些其實基本上都應該第一時間趕快競速而且完整的提供給這一個檢察官來做相關的這一個整個這個判斷好"},{"start":168.977,"end":190.465,"text":"如果你要談到保護令我們等一下確實會談到這個部分當然我們看到第一線還有包含你們跨部會的會議結論如果根據剛剛次長你所說的事件然後背景然後情節輕重高風險良表這些東西可以透過警政跟社工的努力快速交給檢察官做出後續的判斷那我們來看一下因為過去當然有一些憾事這些憾事我們認為他們呈現了一些"},{"start":193.066,"end":213.354,"text":"不同的現在我們所看見不同的缺漏我們來一一檢視一下這些缺漏有沒有可能在你剛剛說的那些措施當中去補足回來第一個基隆五歲小孩被爸爸把枕頭悶殺可是其實當時母親已經有提出這個保護令的申請可是他其實遇到的是保護令的空窗期但因為新的事件我想我就不再多說"},{"start":214.034,"end":243.11,"text":"還有相關人員的知能跟敏感度甚至我都會說這個相關人員其實還包含這個孩子的媽媽因為媽媽在通報的時候其實沒有通報說孩子有受虐跟受到家暴的情況所以這裡的相關人員我甚至還想提到的是被害人本身他們意識到他的孩子也需要求助第二個是化室的槍殺案這個女子她拒絕保護令所以我們認為這裡的問題可能潛在的問題是其實資源有到位了大家也都知道要投入"},{"start":243.57,"end":271.315,"text":"可是當事人拒絕的時候國家有沒有什麼樣的角度跟可能性我們想要積極協助他的時候我們可以怎麼做第三個新聞是才剛撤銷保護令就被前男友砍殺這個內湖的案子我們看見他潛在的問題是保護令失效或者是撤回後的人身安全行為人處遇跟輔導機制我認為這題就相對複雜囉包含保護令失效撤回後人身安全還有行為人處遇跟輔導機制"},{"start":273.156,"end":286.731,"text":"剛剛莊委員也提到輔導人行為人處於的事情最後一個新聞是國民法官審新北沙夫案幾乎被判刑七年兩個月他長期被行為人制約早上王逸傳委員又提到這些事情也就是說"},{"start":287.412,"end":307.729,"text":"我們不要看個案我們來看通案全面的盤點新聞背後所看見的潛在問題回應到您剛剛說的五大會議結論跟後續的相關配套你認為我們有沒有機會把這一塊慢慢補起來當然今天時間有限那我就先提出我們辦公室研究跟觀察"},{"start":308.209,"end":327.038,"text":"可是確實我們是希望你們的跨部會會議跟後續的政策推動跟你剛剛說的所有配套可以未來再看到類似事情或是避免類似事情發生的時候這些潛在的問題可以獲得解決當然我知道都還要再努力但我們來看一個其實這個我也很想跟您討論是"},{"start":329.496,"end":344.975,"text":"這個統計數字是來自行政院的網站統計資料我不確定你有沒有看過不過沒關係我跟你說第一個這個數字可以看到的是家暴的通報數量連年上升而各式各樣家暴的原因也都持續上升其中親密關係佔了五成"},{"start":347.117,"end":374.487,"text":"我在跟我的同仁讨论的时候我认为有一个很重要的原因是大家的意识提升了所以我们就通报但也有可能这是其中一个原因第二个原因是双向都有通报就是加害人跟被害人在一个有争执的情况下都会通报我们做过研究你们一直点头代表我们想的是对的所以我不知道你们卫福部怎么看这个数字当然我们有我们的解读我也想听听看次长您的看法"},{"start":375.547,"end":400.816,"text":"陳如剛委員所說我們從1998年通過之後27年其實大家的整個這個家庭就是整個這個防暴意識提升我也要跟委員報告就是說另外一方面我們保護師其實在各個社區我們都有推那個所謂的防暴社區的這個觀念然後來訓練這一個防暴師來做這個廣為宣講那其實剛剛陳如剛委員所說的這個上升其實另外一個確實還有一個所謂互為通報"},{"start":402.116,"end":427.067,"text":"這一個的部分就以這次土城的這個案件為例其實事實上他自己本身他甚至他自己他也申請這個所謂保護力是這個所以我剛說的雙向通報的問題沒有錯我剛很開心聽到您說防暴師因為我確實認識好幾位防暴師講師確實他們告訴我們第一線的狀況是有講了之後真的還蠻多人就意識到說原來這個情況是屬於防暴的家暴的內容所以可能通報上升這個時候問題就來了"},{"start":429.048,"end":458.731,"text":"要問的是那第一線社工現在你們的盤點是我其實懷疑會不會嚴重人數不足報告委員確實啦我就是說因為通報案案件上升那我也那個我們必須要承認這個現實是沒錯就是說我們按照規定我們應該是像那個成人保護的話應該是1比30是那兒童保護的話應該1比25那現在目前確實都有案社工案量這個過多過多但是我們找不到這麼多社工"},{"start":459.851,"end":484.978,"text":"所以我們現在目前在社安網第二期 2.0的部分我們現在就是要來也跟行政院這邊報上去就是說我們現在要趕快來補足這部分的這個人力的這個gap那當然也就是說社工這個各學校那個社工的整個這一個教育的部分我們也要趕快來做相關的這個培訓工作好我很樂意我很開心聽到你剛剛說的你們已經跟行政院討論在社安網2.0但是我可以確定一下因為我聽這個"},{"start":486.218,"end":513.005,"text":"你們大概預計什麼時候可以逐步跟上這個數字1比30或者是1比25你們的規劃沒關係還是可以讓市長來回覆謝謝謝謝委員關心其實處理交報案件這麼大量的通報其實我們更要精準的把人力用在該做對的事情上面所以我們的分級分流的部分做了一些處理那包括用替打量表來這個"},{"start":515.085,"end":525.152,"text":"評估或者是我們先做評估篩選出高危機案件然後把人力用在這個上頭那另外我們也結合民間團體我們一共每年有37個民間團體幫我們做這個親密關係風險低的"},{"start":530.216,"end":555.031,"text":"中低度但是有意願有必有需要服務的案件我們有37個團體在幫在幫政府在後端協助這些婦女讓他們能夠脫離暴力所以單純看1比30我覺得是可能還可以再看資源的這個部件以及這個案件的分流處理這樣的一個機制可能更有意義"},{"start":556.232,"end":574.711,"text":"從第一線工作角度我完全支持您剛說的這麼多細緻的處理確實也可以比較直接幫忙到所有的當事人只是說確實第一時間社會大眾所看見的是人力比的匱乏那如果行政院有其意願也有其資源當然我認為立法院絕對是大力支持"},{"start":575.131,"end":604.083,"text":"只是說我們如何真的可以把人補到位而且補到位之後因為前陣子還有一個文章說其實社安網前一個版本的困境是社安 社工變很多了資源好像也到位可是好像彼此就固著在自己的工作崗位上彼此之間的合作可能就少了一些過往的經驗那我相信也許在未來社安網2.0的版本當中社工跟社工之間在服務同一個案子的過程當中如何緊密的接軌互助合作"},{"start":604.463,"end":622.315,"text":"我認為不會只有在兒少案件當然因為我在胃環每次都問你們兒少可是今天在這邊我們問的是家暴案件剛剛司長你說的我都認同但後續的接軌我知道也不要只追求人力我們一起努力好不好我再補充一下主席都是他一直說喔這樣"},{"start":623.396,"end":637.091,"text":"我們現在要分級分流這個高風險我們現在目前用TIVA量表大概測出來大概10%所以我們會把我們的這個測工主力會放置重兵在這一個所謂的10%的部分"},{"start":638.353,"end":655.574,"text":"這樣我就要幫社工多爭取如果是高風險我相信社工的工作量跟心理負擔其實也很大我們後續也要積極協助這些第一線的社工心理素質不要只有風險加急啦市長我們在協助他們心理整備那個素質的時候也要給予協助"},{"start":657.095,"end":674.66,"text":"應該要來強化這個我們後續再跟你們討論好來下一張接下來看司法院統計關於家暴通報還有保護令事件一樣是持續攀升的那這個是司法院的資料申請保護令的案件我們來看一下第一個司法院現在一年有三萬多件的申請案"},{"start":675.62,"end":698.135,"text":"那原因我們剛剛已經都說了嘛但是我其實擔心的是那第一線的法官他們過勞的情況其實不是只有在家暴案件工作量這麼大我們之前在屢次的質詢當中我們都不斷不斷的說現在我想知道不知道你手上有沒有資料平均一個庭或者是一個法官在相關保護令要扛多少如果以每一個庭或者是法官來算"},{"start":699.721,"end":716.446,"text":"沒關係 沒有嘛沒有算這個平均但是我說的一年三萬多件是對的嘛對好 但這個數字我相信你們應該有來自第一線的回饋跟聲音體感上可不可以告訴我們他們的工作量質感上應該是壓力很大然後案件也很多"},{"start":721.629,"end":742.44,"text":"讓我們知道實際的狀況我去年從士林地院過來我在士林地院我們是六個法官加一個庭堂辦四分之一大概是6.25股的能力我們一年的通常保護令案件我離開的那一年112年年底我沒有記錯應該是1300件就光通常保護令所以我們一個法官大概一個月要收"},{"start":746.111,"end":766.727,"text":"六點二五一千三嘛所以一個法官一年收兩百件左右然後你可能他上半天也大概就兩百多天都還沒有算他加班時間然後一個月大概他還有其他對他還有其他我當時在士林地院的家事庭整個總收案量一個法官是八十件左右一個月一個月其實算多對不對"},{"start":768.309,"end":788.389,"text":"過多 超多很多很多你很客氣 我都已經幫你說超多了啦其實是超多我要講的是第一線的這個量所以我相信這邊可不可以請司法院再回覆一下副秘書長你們有沒有打算在這個事情上做什麼樣的調整 員額的部分或者是人力的部分"},{"start":790.049,"end":814.084,"text":"謝謝委員關心這個事情因為司法院 各法院人力負擔非常非常沉重我們的總元額法全國是一萬五千人這個數字馬上就已經要報表了所以說我們的法官必須是在三年前的時候就開始要算今年的考試是三年之後到位"},{"start":815.185,"end":830.751,"text":"我們現在就是說也陷入一個那個困境因為就是加一個那個法官的話其他還有書記官跟法助還有其他像其他的這些那個輔助人立法警什麼的那你們全部算在這15000是是是而且是全國"},{"start":832.232,"end":856.809,"text":"對那所以就是說你要加那個法官的話才能夠承受這些那個案件可是加了法官會不會就排擠其他的工作人員正當我們今天要上台質詢的時候我們還看到一個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理我沒有在罵你髒話我說那個臉書專頁叫靠北法官助理是他們就有在說你們最近是不是有個會議要把約聘改成冤用是不是因為元額的問題是這個可以後續再說是"},{"start":857.669,"end":872.763,"text":"但是我今天這題就是要我不知道我們可以怎麼解決我們可不可以有機會回過頭來討論種源額的問題你們自己這邊的傾向我們當然可以回過頭再跟人種討論但我想知道你們自己在第一線希望反映給人種的聲音會是什麼"},{"start":873.103,"end":893.565,"text":"是 這也是司法院的政策那我們現在正在就是說很精準的就是做這個人力評估啊也有委託就是外面的這些學校那個教授來進到那個司法院就是精準的去幫我們看我們這些人力的那個評估到底還需要增加那個多少人然後有這些客觀那個數據去爭取大概多久要算出來"},{"start":894.64,"end":922.787,"text":"我们基本的资料都已经有现在会诊资料我们希望可以立刻就是去争取支持拜托去争取因为光是靠北助理法官那个事情都已经在讲法官助理的部分了那更何况还有法官还有刚刚来自第一线的同仁的声音卫福部先请回不好意思谢谢所以司法院这边稍等我一下好所以我希望这个数字可以很快出来你刚刚说你们已经找专家学者做了研究我们办公室可以跟你们要这个资料吗"},{"start":923.992,"end":951.011,"text":"還是你們可以讓我們大概知道一下你們的計算跟你們希望跟人總討論的部分嗎這我們會去彙整對好不好好謝謝接下來那我們來看一下如果是這個案子你看人這麼多都還不要談通保戰保還有緊急保護令各自的一些狀況可是如果我們把人事的部分解決我們現在來看我現在想問的是第一個保護令常常被詬病的時間就是因為日期太長那我認為人力不足絕對是一個部分"},{"start":951.972,"end":968.744,"text":"那你剛剛說已經你們希望增加人力所以這個我已經聽到答案了那可是第二個暫時保護令當時我們設立的目的是希望保護遭受家庭暴力的被害人那有一個所謂暫時性的措施這個緊急性的臨時保護措施可是目前我們現在算了這個時間給我們的數字是22天我很想知道這個22天是怎麼樣"},{"start":975.356,"end":1002.149,"text":"就是這個程序為什麼需要這麼久還是他其實還是卡在人力的問題戰保的部分戰保的部分現在平均值是22天沒關係讓後面的同仁回答沒有關係好謝謝委員我是中中委員廳長是這一部分是這樣根據加法法的規定這個鑽石保護令它是得因為市政不足得開庭審理是"},{"start":1002.449,"end":1027.936,"text":"那當我們的受理這個案子的時候一審查就會通知當事人補一些資料但是遲遲未補所以就會定期所以因為有定期所以產生他這個就是所謂市民啊優勢證據的資料不夠才會拖到20幾天一般的通常都在7到10天你說暫保的部分暫保的部分平均是7到9暫保7到10天不開庭就發出去了好"},{"start":1028.977,"end":1041.569,"text":"所以我們的22天的數字之所以會這樣是包括開庭的全部把它結案的可是戰保不需要開庭不是嗎它是寫得開庭所以我們去調資料的時候就是一直沒有補進來所以不足以市民有危險性的態度所以剛剛衛福部才會說資料要趕快進來最剛開始的時候"},{"start":1050.578,"end":1071.909,"text":"那我想後續確實需要衛福部協助司法院這邊好來謝謝那緊急保護的因為通常是法規規定是一天以內對不對24小時那4小時然後現在我們一年大概100多件對不對好那我很好奇喔如果中間我們遇到空窗期該怎麼辦我剛說的戰保這個空窗期還沒發戰保對對對對我現在說是還沒發戰保的空窗期我們有沒有什麼因應或者是保護的措施"},{"start":1081.013,"end":1103.44,"text":"請說 請說委員好 我做一個報告齁如果緊急保護令的話不論何時我們懲判的法官這個我知道四小時要發那麼現在是戰保有些直接就申請進來那有些是申請通保依規定我們看到那個量表那個危險量表跟這個人格性格有暴力我們是依職權發戰保"},{"start":1105.04,"end":1119.096,"text":"就是通報 醫治權先發先醫治權發這個戰報這個是法有明文所以法官的訓練在這個地方很重要但是資料如果我們可以彙整就是說網絡可以彙整立即就會取得"},{"start":1121.137,"end":1140.585,"text":"實務上的做法我聽懂了但是你剛剛說沒有空窗期真的嗎不會有任何一個案件有空窗期嗎我所謂的空窗期就是只在發出這個保護令之前就算它是戰保發出保護令之前還是你們認為相關案件它原本如果是申請戰保但是你們認為事態緊急你們其實會自行改成緊急保護令是這樣嗎"},{"start":1141.565,"end":1166.344,"text":"所以就不會有空窗期不是因為緊急保護令只有機關可以申請是那暫時保護令當事人跟機關都可以申請對那現在剛剛的空窗期會有是在通保通保在進行中如果我們收集到的危險資料不夠所以法官就沒有依之前核發馬上介入的保護叫暫保沒有發暫保這個就空窗了"},{"start":1166.904,"end":1193.223,"text":"對 那怎麼辦嘛 我現在就問你怎麼辦那我們有設計了三種 三套給全國家事法官來進行第一個就是立即連結這個駐法院的家暴服務處的社工立即去啟動這個做一個安全計畫給法官就是有哪些危險性好 所以是第一個對 第一個第二個就是我們知道很多兒童都目睹那目睹暴力的時候 因為他"},{"start":1194.403,"end":1207.75,"text":"這個發的戰保有禁止接觸那就沒有辦法看到小孩所以我們會立即發函給那個個管社工就是加防中心的請他提出迅速提出三到五天提出一個最快的訪視跟監督室會面計畫來保護兒童"},{"start":1211.952,"end":1239.281,"text":"那第三個就是說如果風險裡面他是藥物亂用人格異常等等那我們會立即啟動這個主動來做進行這個所謂的處理計畫鑑定同時呢處理計畫鑑定的同時也發函依法律規定給加防官就是我們分局裡面有加防官請他安排這個這個所謂轄區派出所的巡邏跟這個安全維護當然第一個這個"},{"start":1240.961,"end":1264.142,"text":"所謂做交報服務做安全計畫裡面可能就已經有啟動跟各館社工去所謂的庇護跟這個安全離開庇護保密這個措手 以上好 謝謝你回答這麼仔細我其實就是要聽你講這個因為我認為剛剛空窗期的部分一定有你們已經知道的你們已經注意到所以你們做了一些預防措施但是現在社會大眾可能不理解因為"},{"start":1264.682,"end":1289.756,"text":"一定還是會有一些少數個案出現那個所謂空窗期那所以在您剛剛報告三個做法當中我們後續再來跟你們討論還有哪些可能性是我們之後再透過法規範或是相關措施來補上我們今天就不再用這邊的時間但您剛剛回覆我那三個樣態聽起來可能是一般人之前還不知道但現在我們讓大家知道後續還沒有的我們再補上好最後一個"},{"start":1290.636,"end":1313.547,"text":"當事人通報意願其實也是我剛剛有提到的部分那因為法不入家門家醜不外揚這樣的概念我們看到相關數字是家暴當事人平均要4.2年才願意通報我認為你們一定有做相關的宣導剛剛說有防暴時的部分我當然希望後續可以持續加強因為我時間有限我就不再多說另外一個其實我還是要提醒你們加害人除獄的"},{"start":1314.087,"end":1335.258,"text":"的部分因為剛莊瑞雄也說相關數字的比例其實是不合理的那加害人廚藥我認為應該衛福部會知道要花一些力氣再去調整進行相關資源的調整還有相關宣導這個部分可不可以讓衛福部回應一下因為確實最近國人覺得很擔心土城那個事情其實是加害人的部分"},{"start":1336.418,"end":1351.047,"text":"包委員我們現在確實就是說陳副委員剛剛所說這裡面有這個相對人還有被害人的部分那這兩部分我們都必須要作為相關處遇計畫那其實以這個土城這個案例其實他們其實他等於搬"},{"start":1352.468,"end":1377.693,"text":"這一個搬到屏東的時候 屏東的社會處還有社工去做那這裡面我們未來也會請我們保護性社工這邊相關的處遇計畫必須我們的整個教育訓練我們會來應該要來強化應該加害人處遇計畫我們還有努力的空間 簡單的說就是這樣 好不好還有另外一個我也跟各位回報就是說其實另外一個最重要還是里長林長這個部分"},{"start":1380.934,"end":1404.077,"text":"這個部分但是我們就要協助里長跟里長增加相關的知能還有協助他們的資源配套不然等到他開始有意識他開始有意識然後他開始很雞婆而且雞婆是好心的他開始好心的去做這些事情的時候他可能也會開始感到無助因為後續的資源要減少這個部分我們就一起努力最後一個庇護所因為現在多處偏遠地帶我們如何改善"},{"start":1406.302,"end":1419.099,"text":"因為就降低大家入住的意願我們如何保護被害人人身安全這個部分我們現在目前其實跟這個社會住宅這邊我們也會來合作譬如說像林口林口社宅那邊就有一個相關計畫再給我們"},{"start":1420.441,"end":1439.878,"text":"好 謝謝最後我的結論講得很清楚主席我要結論我的結論就是這些我剛剛所有問的問題你們都回答已經有做到的跟還要努力的我們就繼續努力相關資料我們辦公室會再跟你們出所資就是人力的部分申請保護令還有加爆防護措施三個月內好不好好 謝謝主席非常感謝委員 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1121,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（12時10分）謝謝主席對我的體貼，主席，我努力不要超時。我們先請衛福部，謝謝。還有司法院的代表。"],["主席：麻煩衛福部次長、司法院副秘。"],["呂次長建德：陳委員午安。"],["陳委員培瑜：兩位午安。今天非常多的委員都關注相關的比例跟數字，我們就直接切入重點。其實所有的問政，包含主席今天排這個專報，我們都是希望憾事不要再發生，所以如果我們來看一些比較細緻的東西，我們就來往這裡去想，如何做、做哪些事情，然後哪些是我們漏掉導致憾事一再地發生，那我們今天也許就有機會來討論。我知道你們其實很快地因應土城這個事件，你們立刻召開了跨部會的會議，我想這個動作非常的快。我現在想要知道一下，因為還沒有看到會議紀錄，可不可以簡單地說明一下？","我們只有看到新聞稿，目前說有五個決議，包含第一個強化第一線專業人員的教育訓練；還有研擬跨轄通報跟應變機制；盤點刑事程序的銜接處理；針對雙向加害或被害案件提出新指引；還有最後提供完整的心理輔導跟支持。這是目前在新聞稿看見的，可不可以請你們簡單補充說明一下，後續在這些事情上如何跟第一線的工作人員可以做對接，可以希望憾事不再發生。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員對五大決議的關心，剛剛我在回應其他委員的時候，我也特別談到這五點裡面，我個人，因為我當天也是主席，我認為如果以後要避免，最重要的事實上就是以這個保護令為主。它的整個核發還有整個羈押情況的時候，我們要提供，就是左邊的警政的同仁，還有右邊的社工同仁，必須要提出必要的相關訊息，讓檢察官還有法官在裁定整個保護令的時候有必要的訊息（necessary information）。","其中必要的訊息包括幾個部分：第一個事件發生頻率；第二個家庭背景的陳述；還有第三個，剛剛所說的情節輕重；以及第四個，就是剛剛司法院副秘書長有特別提到的親密關係暴力的高風險量表，就是TIPVDA量表，我想這一些基本上都應該在第一時間儘速而且完整的提供給檢察官來做整個相關的判斷。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，如果你要談到保護令，我們等一下確實會談到這個部分，當然我們看到第一線，還有包含你們跨部會的會議結論，如果根據剛剛次長所說的事件頻率、背景陳述、情節輕重跟高風險量表這些東西，可以透過警政跟社工的努力快速交給檢察官做出後續的判斷。那我們來看一下，過去當然有一些憾事，這些憾事我們認為他們呈現了一些現在我們所看見不同的缺漏，我們來一一檢視一下，這些缺漏有沒有可能在你剛剛說那些措施當中去補足。","第一個，基隆5歲小孩被爸爸用枕頭悶殺，其實當時母親已經提出保護令的聲請，可是這個案件遇到的是保護令的空窗期，但因為新聞事件，我想我就不再多說。還有相關人員的知能跟敏感度，甚至我都會說，這個相關人員其實還包含這個孩子的媽媽，因為媽媽在通報的時候，其實沒有通報說孩子有受虐跟受到家暴的情況……"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以這裡的相關人員，我甚至還想提到的是被害人本身，他有沒有意識到他的孩子也需要求助。","第二個是畫室槍殺案，這個女子拒絕保護令，所以我們認為這裡的問題、可能潛在的問題是，其實資源有到位了，大家也都知道要投入，可是當事人拒絕的時候，國家有沒有什麼樣的角度跟可能性，我們想要積極協助他的時候，可以怎麼做？","第三個新聞是才剛撤銷保護令就被前男友砍殺，這個內湖的案子我們看見潛在的問題是，保護令失效或者是撤回後的人身安全、行為人處遇跟輔導機制，我認為這一題就相對複雜了，包含保護令失效、撤回後的人身安全，還有行為人處遇跟輔導機制，剛剛莊委員也提到行為人處遇的事情。","最後一個新聞是國民法官審新北殺夫案，季婦被判刑7年2個月，他長期被行為人制約。早上王義川委員也有提到這些事情，也就是說，我們不要看個案，我們來看通案，全面盤點新聞背後所看見的潛在問題。回應到您剛剛說的五大會議結論跟後續的相關配套，你認為我們有沒有機會把這一塊慢慢補起來？當然今天時間有限，我就先提出我們辦公室的研究跟觀察。"],["呂次長建德：OK。"],["陳委員培瑜：可是確實我們是希望你們的跨部會會議跟後續的政策推動跟你剛剛說的所有配套，未來在看到類似事情或是避免類似事情發生的時候，這些潛在的問題可以獲得解決，當然我知道都還要再努力……"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們來看一個資料，其實這個我也很想跟您討論，這個統計數字是來自行政院的網站統計資料，我不確定你有沒有看過，不過沒關係，我跟你說，第一個，這個數字可以看到的是家暴的通報數量連年上升……"],["呂次長建德：沒錯、沒錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：各式各樣原因的家暴通報數量也都持續上升，其中親密關係占了5成，我在跟我的同仁討論的時候，我認為有一個很重要的原因是大家的意識提升了，所以就通報，但也有可能這是其中一個原因，第二個原因是雙向都有通報，就是加害人跟被害人在一個有爭執的情況下都會通報……"],["呂次長建德：對，都會通報。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們做過研究，你們一直點頭，代表我們想的是對的……"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：我不知道你們衛福部怎麼看這個數字，當然我們有我們的解讀，我也想聽聽看次長的看法。"],["呂次長建德：誠如剛剛委員所說的，我們從1998年通過之後迄今27年，其實大家整個防暴意識提升了，我也要跟委員報告，另外一方面，我們保護司其實在各個社區都有推所謂的防暴社區這個觀念，然後訓練防暴師來廣為宣講。誠如剛剛委員所說的，這個部分上升了，其實另外確實還有一個所謂的互為通報的部分，以土城這個案件為例，甚至他自己本身也聲請所謂的保護令。"],["陳委員培瑜：是，所以我剛剛說有雙向通報的問題。"],["呂次長建德：沒錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：沒有錯。我剛剛很開心聽到您說到防暴師，因為我也認識好幾位防暴宣講師，確實他們告訴我們第一線的狀況是，有講了之後，真的還滿多人就意識到，原來這個情況是屬於家暴的內容……"],["呂次長建德：沒錯、沒錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以可能通報案件上升，這個時候問題就來了，要問的是第一線社工現在你們的盤點情況，我其實懷疑會不會嚴重人數不足。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，確實啦，因為通報案件上升，我也要跟委員報告……"],["陳委員培瑜：我們必須要承認這個現實，對不對？"],["呂次長建德：是，沒錯。就是說我們按照規定，像成人保護的話應該是1比30，兒童保護的話應該是1比25，目前確實都有社工案量過度負擔……"],["陳委員培瑜：過多，但是我們找不到這麼多社工？"],["呂次長建德：對，所以目前在社安網第二期、2.0的部分，我們現在就是要跟行政院這邊報上去，就是我們現在要趕快來補足這部分人力的gap，當然社工、各學校社工整個教育的部分，我們也要趕快來做相關的培訓工作。"],["陳委員培瑜：我很樂意、很開心聽到你剛剛說的，你們已經跟行政院討論，在社安網2.0……"],["呂次長建德：對，人力的部分。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是我想確定一下，就你們的規劃，大概預計什麼時候可以逐步跟上1比30或者是1比25這個數字？"],["呂次長建德：我們有提出一個……"],["陳委員培瑜：沒關係，還是可以讓司長來回復，謝謝。"],["張司長秀鴛：謝謝委員關心。其實處理家暴案件這麼大量的通報，我們更要精準地把人力用在該做對的事情上面，所以我們在分級、分流的部分做了一些處理，包括用TIPVDA量表來評估，或者是我們先做評估，篩選出高危機案件，然後把人力用在這個上面。另外，我們也結合民間團體，每年一共有37個民間團體幫我們做親密關係風險低的、中低度，但是有意願、有需要服務的案件，有37個團體幫政府在後端協助這些婦女，讓他們能夠脫離暴力，所以單純看1比30，我覺得可能還可以再看資源的布建以及案件的分流處理機制，這樣可能更有意義。"],["陳委員培瑜：從第一線工作角度，我完全支持您剛剛說的這麼多細緻的處理，確實也可以比較直接幫忙到所有的當事人，只是說確實第一時間社會大眾所看見的是人力比的匱乏，如果行政院有其意願也有其資源，當然我認為立法院絕對是大力支持，只是說我們如何真的可以把人補到位？而且補到位之後，因為前一陣子還有一個文章說，其實社安網前一個版本的困境是社工變很多了，資源好像也到位，可是好像彼此就固著在自己的工作崗位上，彼此之間的合作可能就少了一些過往的經驗，我相信也許在未來社安網2.0的版本當中，社工跟社工之間在服務同一個案子的過程當中，如何緊密地接軌、互助合作，我認為不會只有在兒少案件，當然因為我在衛環每次都問你們兒少的部分，可是今天在這邊，我們問的是家暴案件，剛剛司長說的我都認同，但後續的接軌，我知道也不要只追求人力，我們一起努力好不好？"],["呂次長建德：OK，我補充一下……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，給你補充，主席，都是他一直說喔！"],["呂次長建德：就是我們現在要分級、分流，對於這個高風險的部分，我們目前用TIPVDA量表測出來大概是10%，所以我們會把我們的社工主力放置重兵在所謂的這個10%的部分。"],["陳委員培瑜：等一下，這樣我就要幫社工多爭取了，如果是高風險，我相信社工的工作量跟心理負擔其實也很大。"],["呂次長建德：對，當然。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們後續也要積極協助這些第一線社工的心理素質……"],["呂次長建德：沒錯，保護性社工有風險加給……"],["陳委員培瑜：不要只有風險加給啦！次長，我們在他們的心理整備、心理素質也要給予協助。"],["呂次長建德：是、是、是，這部分我們應該要來強化。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個我們後續再跟你們討論。"],["呂次長建德：好的，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：接下來看司法院統計關於家暴通報還有保護令事件的數量，一樣是持續攀升，這個是司法院的資料，關於聲請保護令的案件，我們來看一下，第一個，司法院現在一年有三萬多件聲請案，原因我們剛剛已經都說了，但是我擔心的是第一線法官他們過勞的情況，其實不是只有在家暴案件工作量這麼大，我們之前在屢次的質詢當中都不斷不斷地說，現在我想知道，不知道你手上有沒有資料，平均一個庭或者是一個法官在相關保護令要扛多少？如果以每一個庭或者是法官來算的話。沒關係，沒有嘛，沒有算這個平均，但是我說的一年三萬多件是對的？"],["王副秘書長梅英：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，但這個數字我相信你們應該有來自第一線的回饋跟聲音，體感上可不可以告訴我們，他們的工作量應該是壓力很大，然後案件也很多？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我可以讓第一線家事法官來回答嗎？"],["陳委員培瑜：可以、可以、可以，沒問題，讓我們知道實際的狀況。"],["郭法官躍民：主席、委員。我去年從士林地院過來，在士林地院，我們是6個法官加1個庭長辦四分之一股，所以大概是6.25股的能力，我們一年的通常保護令案件，我離開的那一年（112年）年底，我沒有記錯的話應該是1,300件，就光通常保護令，所以我們一個法官大概一個月要收……"],["陳委員培瑜：6.25，1,300。"],["郭法官躍民：6.25，1,300，所以一個法官一年收200件左右……"],["陳委員培瑜：然後他上班天也大概就兩百多天，都還沒有算他加班時間。"],["郭法官躍民：對、對、對，然後一個月大概……"],["王副秘書長梅英：他還有家事……"],["郭法官躍民：對，還有其他……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，他還有其他……"],["郭法官躍民：我當時在士林地院的家事庭，整個總收案量一個法官一個月是80件左右。"],["陳委員培瑜：一個月，其實是算多，對不對？過多？超多？"],["郭法官躍民：很多。"],["陳委員培瑜：很多？你很客氣，我都已經幫你說超多了啦！其實是超多。我要講的是第一線的這個量，可不可以請司法院再回復一下？副秘書長，你們有沒有打算在這個事情上做什麼樣的調整？員額的部分或者是人力的部分。"],["王副秘書長梅英：謝謝委員關心這個事情。因為司法院各法院的人力真的負擔非常非常沉重，根據我們的總員額法，全國是1萬5,000人，這個數字馬上就已經要爆表了，所以我們的法官必須是在三年前的時候就開始要算，就是今年的考試是三年之後到位，我們現在也陷入一個困境，因為就是加一個法官的話，其他還有書記官跟法助，還有像其他的輔助人力，法警什麼的……"],["陳委員培瑜：你們全部算在這1萬5,000名？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是、是、是，而且是全國。所以就是說你要加法官的話，才能夠承受這一些案件……"],["陳委員培瑜：可是加了法官會不會就排擠其他的工作人員？正當我們今天要上臺質詢的時候，我們還看到一個臉書專頁叫「靠北法官助理」。我沒有在罵你髒話，我說那個臉書專頁叫「靠北法官助理」。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：他們就有在說，你們最近是不是有個會議，要把約聘改成約用？是不是因為員額的問題？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個可以後續再說。"],["王副秘書長梅英：是、是。"],["陳委員培瑜：但是我今天這一題我不知道我們可以怎麼解決，我們可不可以有機會回過頭來討論總員額的問題？你們自己這邊的傾向？我們當然可以回過頭再跟人總討論，但我想知道，你們自己在第一線希望反映給人總的聲音會是什麼？"],["王副秘書長梅英：是，這也是司法院的政策，我們現在正在很精準的做人力評估，也有委託外面的學校教授進到司法院精準地去幫我們看我們這些人力的評估，到底還需要增加多少人，然後有這些客觀的數據去爭取，能夠……"],["陳委員培瑜：大概多久要算出來？"],["王副秘書長梅英：當然我們基本的資料都已經有，現在彙整資料，我們希望可以立刻就去爭取。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，支持，拜託去爭取！因為光是「靠北法官助理」那個事情，都已經在講法官助理的部分……"],["王副秘書長梅英：是、是。"],["陳委員培瑜：更何況還有法官，還有剛剛來自第一線同仁的聲音。","衛福部先請回，不好意思。"],["呂次長建德：謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：司法院這邊稍等我一下。"],["王副秘書長梅英：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以我希望這個數字可以很快出來，你剛剛說你們已經找專家學者做了研究，我們辦公室可以跟你們要這個資料嗎？你們可以讓我們大概知道一下你們的計算跟你們希望跟人總討論的部分嗎？"],["王副秘書長梅英：我們回去彙整。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，好不好？謝謝。"],["王副秘書長梅英：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：接下來我們來看一下，你看人這麼多，都還不要談通保、暫保，還有緊急保護令各自的一些狀況，可是如果我們把人事的部分解決，我們現在來看，我現在想問的是：第一個，保護令常常被詬病的時間，就是因為日期太長，那我認為人力不足絕對是一個部分。你剛剛說你們已經希望增加人力，所以這個我已經聽到答案了。可是第二個，暫時保護令，當時我們設立的目的是希望保護遭受家庭暴力的被害人，有一個所謂暫時性的措施、緊急性的臨時保護措施。可是目前我們算了這個時間，給我們的數字是二十二天，我很想知道這個程序為什麼需要這麼久？還是它其實還是卡在人力的問題？暫保的部分。暫保的部分，現在平均值是二十二天。沒關係，讓後面的同仁回答沒有關係。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：謝謝委員，我是鍾宗霖廳長。"],["陳委員培瑜：是，謝謝廳長。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：這一部分是這樣，根據家暴法的規定，暫時保護令是「得」，因為事證不足，得開庭審理。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：當我們受理這個案子的時候，一審查就會通知當事人補一些資料，但是遲遲未補，所以就會定期。因為有定期，所以產生所謂市民優勢證據的資料不夠，才會拖到二十幾天。一般通常都在七到十天，如果不需要……"],["陳委員培瑜：你說暫保的部分？暫保的部分平均是七到九。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：七到十天不開庭就發出去了……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以二十二天的數字之所以會這樣是你剛剛說事證……"],["鍾廳長宗霖：是包括開庭的，全部把它結案的。"],["陳委員培瑜：可是暫保不需要開庭，不是嗎？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：它是寫「得」開庭……"],["陳委員培瑜：所以什麼情況下？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：就是我們去調資料的時候，一直沒有補進來，所以不足以釋明他有高度危險性。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以剛剛衛福部才會說資料要趕快進來，最剛開始的時候。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：是的。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，我想後續確實需要衛福部協助司法院這邊，謝謝。那緊急保護令，因為法規規定是一天以內，對不對？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：四小時核發。"],["陳委員培瑜：四小時，然後現在我們一年大概一百多件，對不對？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，那我也很好奇，如果中間我們遇到空窗期該怎麼辦？我剛剛說的暫保這個空窗期。"],["王副秘書長梅英：還沒發暫保嗎？"],["陳委員培瑜：對、對、對、對、對。"],["王副秘書長梅英：因為只要發了暫保之後……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，我現在說的是還沒發暫保的空窗期，有沒有什麼因應或者是保護的措施？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：我來說明。"],["陳委員培瑜：請說、請說。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：委員好，我做一個報告，如果緊急保護令的話，不論何時，我們承辦的法官一律馬上四小時要發……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個我知道。那暫保呢？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：暫保有些直接就聲請進來，那有些是聲請通保，依規定，我們看到危險量表跟人格性格有暴力，我們是依職權發暫保，就是通保……"],["陳委員培瑜：依職權先發，OK……"],["鍾廳長宗霖：先依職權發暫保，這個是法有明文。所以法官的訓練在這個地方很重要，但是資料如果我們可以彙整，就是說網絡可以彙整，立即就會取得，就沒有空窗期。"],["陳委員培瑜：實務上的作法我聽懂了，但是你剛剛說沒有空窗期，真的嗎？不會有任何一個案件有空窗期嗎？我所謂的空窗期，就是指在發出這個保護令之前，就算他是暫保，發出保護令之前。還是你們認為相關案件，原本如果是聲請暫保，但是你們認為事態緊急，你們其實會自行改成緊急保護令，是這樣嗎？所以就不會有空窗期？"],["鍾廳長宗霖：不是，因為緊急保護令只有機關可以聲請。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：暫時保護令，當事人跟機關都可以聲請。"],["陳委員培瑜：對。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：剛剛說的空窗期會有，是通保在進行中，如果我們收集到的危險資料不夠，所以法官就沒有依職權核發馬上介入的保護，叫「暫保」，沒有發暫保，這個就空窗了。"],["陳委員培瑜：對啊，那怎麼辦？我現在就問你怎麼辦。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：我們有設計了三套給全國家事法官來進行，第一個就是立即連結駐法院家暴服務處的社工，立即去啟動做一個安全計畫給法官，就是有哪些危險性……"],["陳委員培瑜：所以這第一個。"],["鍾廳長宗霖：對，第一個。第二個就是我們知道，很多兒童都目睹，那目睹暴力的時候，因為他發的暫保有禁止接觸，就沒有辦法看到小孩，所以我們會立即發函給個管社工，就是家防中心的，請他迅速提出，三到五天提出一個最快的訪視跟監督會面計畫來保護兒童。","第三個就是說，如果風險裡面他是藥物濫用、人格異常等等，我們會立即啟動主動來進行所謂的處遇計畫鑑定。處遇計畫鑑定的同時，也依法律規定發函給家防官，就是分局裡面有家防官，請他安排所謂轄區派出所的巡邏跟安全維護。當然，第一個所謂駐家暴服務處做的安全計畫裡面，可能就已經有啟動跟個管社工去所謂的庇護跟安全離開庇護、保密住所。以上。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝你回答這麼仔細，我其實就是要聽你講這個。因為我認為剛剛空窗期的部分，一定有你們已經知道的，你們已經注意到，所以你們做了一些預防措施，但是現在社會大眾可能不理解，因為一定還是會有少數個案出現所謂空窗期。所以在您剛剛報告的三個作法當中，我們後續再來跟你們討論，還有哪些可能性是我們之後再透過法規範或是相關措施來補上，我們今天就不占用這邊的時間。但您剛剛回復我的那三個樣態，聽起來可能是一般人之前還不知道，但現在我們讓大家知道，後續還沒有的，我們再補上。","最後一個，當事人通報意願其實也是我剛剛有提到的部分，因為法不入家門、家醜不外揚這樣的概念，我們看到相關數字是，家暴當事人平均要4.2年才願意通報。我認為你們一定有做相關的宣導，剛剛說有防暴師的部分，我當然希望後續可以持續加強。因為我時間有限，我就不再多說。","另外一個，其實我還是要提醒你們，加害人處遇的部分，因為剛剛莊瑞雄也說，相關數字的比例其實是不合理的。加害人處遇，我認為衛福部應該會知道要花一些力氣再去調整，進行相關資源的調整，還有相關宣導。這個部分可不可以讓衛福部回應一下？因為確實以最近國人很擔心的土城那個事情，其實是加害人的部分。"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，我們現在確實誠如委員剛剛所說，這裡面有相對人還有被害人的部分。這兩個部分，我們都必須要作相關的處遇計畫。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["呂次長建德：以土城這個案例，其實他們搬到屏東的時候，屏東社會處有社工去做，這裡面，未來我們對於保護性社工在相關處遇計畫的整個教育訓練應該要來強化。"],["陳委員培瑜：加害人處遇計畫我們應該還有努力的空間，簡單說就是這樣，好不好，先簡單……"],["呂次長建德：當然，還有另外一個，我也跟委員回報，其實另外一個最重要的還是里長、鄰長這個部分……"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分，但是我們就要協助里長跟鄰長增加相關的知能……"],["呂次長建德：沒錯、沒錯……"],["陳委員培瑜：還有協助他們的資源配套……"],["呂次長建德：所以我們就用防暴師，沒錯……"],["陳委員培瑜：不然等到他開始有意識，然後他開始很雞婆，雞婆是好心，他開始好心去做這些事情的時候，他可能也會開始感到無助，因為後續的資源要接上。"],["呂次長建德：是、是，沒錯。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個部分，我們就一起努力。","最後一個，庇護所現在多處偏遠地帶，我們如何改善？因為就降低大家入住的意願，我們如何保護被害人的人身安全？"],["呂次長建德：報告委員，這個部分，其實我們目前跟社會住宅這邊也會來合作。譬如說像林口，林口社宅那邊就有一個……"],["陳委員培瑜：相關計畫再給我們。"],["呂次長建德：好，OK。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝。最後我的結論講得很清楚。主席，我要結論了。我的結論就是這些，我剛剛所有問的問題，你們都回答，已經有做到了，跟還要努力的，我們就繼續努力，相關資料我們辦公室會再跟你們索資，就是人力的部分、聲請保護令的部分，還有家暴防護措施，3個月內提供書面報告，好不好？"],["呂次長建德：OK。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝，謝謝主席。"],["呂次長建德：非常感謝委員，謝謝。"],["主席：下一位請林月琴委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":144,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-22","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","林倩綺","王義川","翁曉玲","沈發惠","羅智強","李坤城","吳思瑤","莊瑞雄","陳培瑜","林月琴","范雲","王鴻薇","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":51,"meetingDate":["2025-07-16"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第22次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請司法院副秘書長、法務部部長、衛生福利部部長、內政部警政署署長、教育部、勞動部、內\n政部移民署率所屬相關單位列席就「保護令不是萬能的?!如何避免憾事再度發生。家庭暴力防治\n法保護令核發，研析配套措施之檢討與精進，並提供相關統計數據」進行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00002"}}}