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\"end\": 404.998, \"text\": \"這個部分我們在食安優先的前提之下要達到食安優先其實在風險評估的前提這個有沒有放經貿談判小組曾立軍副院長說放你們就放我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析風險評估的架構之下那我知道了你們這三項都有可能要開放都已經觸及了只是你們現在沒有辦法回答\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 382.046, \"end\": 382.206, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 382.206, \"end\": 382.506, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 382.506, \"end\": 382.646, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 382.646, \"end\": 383.307, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"食\", \"start\": 383.307, \"end\": 383.467, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 383.467, \"end\": 383.487, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"優\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 383.487, \"end\": 383.647, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 383.647, \"end\": 383.747, \"score\": 0.674}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 383.747, \"end\": 383.927, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 383.927, \"end\": 384.107, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": 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\"text\": \"接下來我要問勞動部一樣是關稅的議題我們看到衛福部在這個食安把關上面在關稅上面通通都是要聽行政院的指示邱部長你可以請回接下來我要問的是洪部長一樣是關稅議題我直接問你這一波的關稅預計會衝擊國內多少的勞工行政院是說12.5萬地方政府估起來是50萬\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 407.159, \"end\": 407.319, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 407.319, \"end\": 407.619, \"score\": 0.776}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 407.619, \"end\": 409.58, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 409.58, \"end\": 409.941, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 409.941, \"end\": 410.121, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 410.121, \"end\": 410.321, \"score\": 0.728}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 410.321, \"end\": 410.781, \"score\": 0.79}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 410.781, \"end\": 411.882, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 411.882, \"end\": 412.082, \"score\": 0.725}, {\"word\": 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\"不\", \"start\": 677.6, \"end\": 678.08, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"樣\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 678.08, \"end\": 678.32, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 678.32, \"end\": 678.5, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 678.5, \"end\": 678.7, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 678.7, \"end\": 678.801, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 678.801, \"end\": 678.941, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 678.941, \"end\": 679.121, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 679.121, \"end\": 679.281, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 679.281, \"end\": 679.381, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 679.381, \"end\": 679.521, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 679.521, \"end\": 679.982, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 679.982, \"end\": 680.162, \"score\": 0.779}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 680.162, \"end\": 680.262, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 680.262, \"end\": 680.282, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 680.282, \"end\": 680.462, \"score\": 0.805}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 680.462, \"end\": 680.542, \"score\": 0.736}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 680.542, \"end\": 680.562, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,428 --> 00:00:08,993\n好謝謝主席我們有請邱部長\n\n2\n00:00:14,011 --> 00:00:27,002\n委員好部長好臺師長女竹她們這些學生被違法抽血的這件事情如果我們從人體研究法裡面我們攤開第二條來看它開宗明義你人體研究要尊重研究對象的自主權而且對研究對象侵害要最小\n\n3\n00:00:39,753 --> 00:01:07,214\n要保障研究對象的權益在這個事件當中到目前為止我們看到的校方完全違反這個學生自主的意願強迫去抽血而且現在所揭露的如果是連續14天每天抽血高達三次這個是對他的侵害最小嗎一般人都難以想像啊你每天要被抽血連續14天有這樣子喔這這\n\n4\n00:01:09,976 --> 00:01:33,877\n我不知道這一個研究計畫當時是怎麼通過倫理審查委員會的怎麼通過的因為如果他當時有載明這樣的一個情況我光看到這一點就不合理啊你今天只是為了研究而研究完全去忽略掉一個研究對象他該有的基本權益有什麼樣的研究會連續14天去抽學生的血\n\n5\n00:01:35,158 --> 00:01:54,242\n過去你們有看過這樣的相關的研究嗎密度這麼高我覺得這件事情非常的離譜耶那另外離譜的是他去年其實就有學生反應了我要問的是那衛福部你們是這部法的主管機關喔你們什麼時候才知道這件事\n\n6\n00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:19,455\n去年時候學生揭露的時候有通報到你們這邊來嗎我先跟委員報告一下謝謝委員關心這件事情我們感同身受跟委員一樣那但是我們一切都是按照依法來辦理其實人體研究法的確主管機關是衛生福利部但是人體研究這個研究的監督查核管理處分及研究對象權益的保障是教育部我知道這個事件是教育部\n\n7\n00:02:22,677 --> 00:02:48,052\n所以我們當然是尊重教育部的調查跟處理嘛那我們當然以法的畫面我們只是說怎麼樣去把它落實這個法我知道但是部長我要告訴你一件事情就是說原來的法是這樣子並沒有錯以這個事件真正要負責的目的世界主管機關是教育部教育部沒有負擔起督導查核的這樣的一個任務\n\n8\n00:02:49,773 --> 00:03:06,980\n那這個會不會有所謂的官官相互的問題他們通通都是教育系統又是台師大提出來的研究所以對他呢就輕輕放下那這個事件已經暴露出來如果未來我們的這個法的本身都是交由目的事業主管機關管轄\n\n9\n00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:24,794\n但是呢他的倫理審查委員會看起來又沒有積極的發揮這個監督審查的功能那怎麼辦這是漏洞啊我要求你們根據這次的事件要去看到這樣的現象就是都是來自同一個體系的官官相互是免不了的\n\n10\n00:03:25,394 --> 00:03:45,462\n這個就是我現在看到的情況我希望你們好好去調查清楚包括這個倫理審查委員會是不是施功能找了哪一些的對象這個委員會有沒有夠公平公正專業如果有的話應該第一時間這樣一個計畫根本連通過都不應該通過我自己的看法是這樣好不好\n\n11\n00:03:46,803 --> 00:04:13,698\n因為今天時間有限還有很多議題要問接下來就是民眾最關心的食安的問題這件事情必須衛福部跟大家做說明今天農業部也來可能一併要跟國人表示清楚因為現在傳言滿天飛我第一個要問的是現在美方有沒有要求我們取消美牛美豬的產品的標示有或沒有你們接到訊息\n\n12\n00:04:14,540 --> 00:04:37,235\n我想台美的談判這個部分是還在談判中所以我想這個是還沒有結論的時候我想就未來我行政院這邊來所以你們都被下了風口我們衛福部當然就是要堅持以食安照顧人民所以衛福部的立場不會取消產地標示\n\n13\n00:04:38,277 --> 00:05:04,936\n是或不是我們一切都是會按照那個現行的法令食安法22條是要標的喔其實我們是一個身為一個WTO的一個國家我們當然是要國際的標準部長你回答我直接的問題我今天時間很有限我們科學分析跟國際的一個規範我這三題你就回答是或不是有或沒有就好不要再說明了有沒有要取消產地標示有或沒有就好\n\n14\n00:05:05,644 --> 00:05:23,311\n謝謝委員因為國際的慣例底下我們在面對談判的過程我們都知道很多國家的你不要再講這些我的時間很有限有或沒有不敢回答第二個要不要放行美牛的絞肉跟內臟這個是食安法第15條裡面的規定有沒有\n\n15\n00:05:24,093 --> 00:05:45,419\n我想針對所有的內容在他們其實之前叫做NationalTradeEvaluationNTE裡面其實都有以前多的議題美國其實是很關心的那有沒有要放行嗎我問你有沒有要放行那很關心的議題當中呢其實大家都會進一步去思考如何去去因應這樣所以已經鬆口了就是有可能要放行\n\n16\n00:05:45,819 --> 00:06:06,030\n我想這個議題其實因為牽涉到在談判的確在食藥署已經觸及了三級的機關的江署長其實安心署長對這部分有點困難針對這個重要的議題整體的國家的談判我們是配合所以你是配合如果是經貿談判小組說放行你們就照辦就對了\n\n17\n00:06:07,071 --> 00:06:18,783\n我想整個食品安全我們是以食品安全優先這個事情我已經知道你的答案了只要上面談判上面說放行你們就照辦第三個來即的容許值現在0.04是不是要放寬到0.09\n\n18\n00:06:22,046 --> 00:06:44,998\n這個部分我們在食安優先的前提之下要達到食安優先其實在風險評估的前提這個有沒有放經貿談判小組曾立軍副院長說放你們就放我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析風險評估的架構之下那我知道了你們這三項都有可能要開放都已經觸及了只是你們現在沒有辦法回答\n\n19\n00:06:47,159 --> 00:07:12,633\n接下來我要問勞動部一樣是關稅的議題我們看到衛福部在這個食安把關上面在關稅上面通通都是要聽行政院的指示邱部長你可以請回接下來我要問的是洪部長一樣是關稅議題我直接問你這一波的關稅預計會衝擊國內多少的勞工行政院是說12.5萬地方政府估起來是50萬\n\n20\n00:07:13,956 --> 00:07:38,894\n到底會衝擊多少我想現在關稅談判的結果還沒有出來這當然都會有不確定的地方就是關稅出口稅率的數字還沒有最後談判的結果出來這個我想這個相關的預估都是非常參考性的而已因為不同的數字當然就會不同受影響的程度所以那個Range行政也估了一個12.5萬不是\n\n21\n00:07:42,098 --> 00:07:51,125\n這個談判的數字沒出來今天還有個更重大的公安的問題我要問你這個台積電的外包的紙齋\n\n22\n00:07:52,808 --> 00:08:15,345\n事實上這個昨天剛發生這一個也是一個很重大的就是他的這個冰水管就是墜落現在這一位員工受傷工人受傷還在搶救當中那但是呢我們發現是不是在去年台積電在南科同樣有一個類似的\n\n23\n00:08:17,979 --> 00:08:33,784\n這個需要你們證實就是在南科18A廠有一個外包的僱員遭到905公斤一樣是冰水管重壓身亡有沒有這件事情我們可能要去了解一下\n\n24\n00:08:34,229 --> 00:09:00,594\n你們作為主管機關都還不知道這麼重大的質問沒有通報我以為你問的內容是非常非常細的所以我們可能要去了解一下你們都沒有獲得任何的通報嗎我今天要提醒的勞動部就是說如果是同一件的話這個2024年已經有一件現在是在台南那現在又在嘉義又同樣的類型都是冰水管這樣的一個施工出現問題然後重壓導致員工身亡\n\n25\n00:09:03,795 --> 00:09:16,589\n你們照照來講針對這樣子同一個類型的案件勞動部應該要責任這個涉及到這個職安的問題同一個類型那應該就要提出警告或者是提醒大家怎麼樣去訪犯\n\n26\n00:09:17,541 --> 00:09:41,029\n我有分兩個部分第一個部分是我們這兩天我們會去把到底有沒有這樣的事件就是是否這樣子的敘事是否屬實我們會把它弄清楚那弄清楚以後來跟委員辦公室來做報告這是第一點那第二個是說如果真的有屬實的話我想該依法那要來做什麼樣處理的可能不是只是規勸該依法怎麼做處理的我們就必須依法來去落實來處理就是這樣\n\n27\n00:09:42,529 --> 00:09:56,876\n你們作為這個勞動主管機關就是這麼重大的職災不應該是你們不知道你們應該第一時間都應該要通報應該是要知道的所以這個是看到新聞上面是這樣子講的就是說當事人他們還有去陳情\n\n28\n00:09:59,537 --> 00:10:15,248\n就是有這樣的一則興亡這個是我們看到的然後我們連到最新的昨天又一樣是冰水管所以我要你們好好去了解的是像這一類的半導體他們需要的這一些大型的重物的這個設施設備它在移動跟搬動的過程當中它會造成工人這個質災\n\n29\n00:10:21,573 --> 00:10:30,598\n就是蠻嚴重的那這類型你們就有責任要去分析原因然後善盡提醒而且要去督導跟溫文說明其實過去\n\n30\n00:10:32,523 --> 00:10:47,915\n以台積電它其實在公安相關的記錄是算是蠻不錯的就是因為它這是一個很旗艦性的企業那當然最近發生的這些事情我想我們也願意跟廠商來做更多的討論跟協助然後導致有這樣的一個情況我們願意來協助因為確實過去以台積電的這個它的工程的規模\n\n31\n00:10:56,001 --> 00:11:20,562\n它其實是相當表現相對是比較好的那但是這幾個事情大家也覺得遺憾所以我們願意來給跟台積電來做討論哪些部分需要我們再多做協助那我們也希望這個模範生未來可以持續成為大家的模範因為我覺得這企業的領頭羊真的很重要好我要求你們要去查清楚重點是未來的防範不應該讓這樣的事情一而再再而三的發生好不好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6428\t8993\t好 謝謝主席 我們有請邱部長\n14011\t27002\t委員好 部長好 臺師長女竹她們這些學生被違法抽血的這件事情如果我們從人體研究法裡面 我們攤開第二條來看它開宗明義 你人體研究要尊重研究對象的自主權而且對研究對象侵害要最小\n39753\t67214\t要保障研究對象的權益在這個事件當中到目前為止我們看到的校方完全違反這個學生自主的意願強迫去抽血而且現在所揭露的如果是連續14天每天抽血高達三次這個是對他的侵害最小嗎一般人都難以想像啊你每天要被抽血連續14天有這樣子喔這這\n69976\t93877\t我不知道這一個研究計畫當時是怎麼通過倫理審查委員會的怎麼通過的因為如果他當時有載明這樣的一個情況我光看到這一點就不合理啊你今天只是為了研究而研究完全去忽略掉一個研究對象他該有的基本權益有什麼樣的研究會連續14天去抽學生的血\n95158\t114242\t過去你們有看過這樣的相關的研究嗎密度這麼高我覺得這件事情非常的離譜耶那另外離譜的是他去年其實就有學生反應了我要問的是那衛福部你們是這部法的主管機關喔你們什麼時候才知道這件事\n115000\t139455\t去年時候學生揭露的時候有通報到你們這邊來嗎我先跟委員報告一下謝謝委員關心這件事情我們感同身受跟委員一樣那但是我們一切都是按照依法來辦理其實人體研究法的確主管機關是衛生福利部但是人體研究這個研究的監督查核管理處分及研究對象權益的保障是教育部我知道這個事件是教育部\n142677\t168052\t所以我們當然是尊重教育部的調查跟處理嘛那我們當然以法的畫面我們只是說怎麼樣去把它落實這個法我知道但是部長我要告訴你一件事情就是說原來的法是這樣子並沒有錯以這個事件真正要負責的目的世界主管機關是教育部教育部沒有負擔起督導查核的這樣的一個任務\n169773\t186980\t那這個會不會有所謂的官官相互的問題他們通通都是教育系統又是台師大提出來的研究所以對他呢就輕輕放下那這個事件已經暴露出來如果未來我們的這個法的本身都是交由目的事業主管機關管轄\n188120\t204794\t但是呢他的倫理審查委員會看起來又沒有積極的發揮這個監督審查的功能那怎麼辦這是漏洞啊我要求你們根據這次的事件要去看到這樣的現象就是都是來自同一個體系的官官相互是免不了的\n205394\t225462\t這個就是我現在看到的情況我希望你們好好去調查清楚包括這個倫理審查委員會是不是施功能找了哪一些的對象這個委員會有沒有夠公平公正專業如果有的話應該第一時間這樣一個計畫根本連通過都不應該通過我自己的看法是這樣好不好\n226803\t253698\t因為今天時間有限 還有很多議題要問接下來就是民眾最關心的食安的問題這件事情必須 衛福部跟大家做說明今天農業部也來 可能一併要跟國人表示清楚因為現在傳言滿天飛我第一個要問的是現在美方有沒有要求我們取消美牛美豬的產品的標示 有或沒有你們接到訊息\n254540\t277235\t我想台美的談判這個部分是還在談判中所以我想這個是還沒有結論的時候我想就未來我行政院這邊來所以你們都被下了風口我們衛福部當然就是要堅持以食安照顧人民所以衛福部的立場不會取消產地標示\n278277\t304936\t是或不是我們一切都是會按照那個現行的法令食安法22條是要標的喔其實我們是一個身為一個WTO的一個國家我們當然是要國際的標準部長你回答我直接的問題我今天時間很有限我們科學分析跟國際的一個規範我這三題你就回答是或不是有或沒有就好不要再說明了有沒有要取消產地標示有或沒有就好\n305644\t323311\t謝謝委員因為國際的慣例底下我們在面對談判的過程我們都知道很多國家的你不要再講這些我的時間很有限有或沒有不敢回答第二個要不要放行美牛的絞肉跟內臟這個是食安法第15條裡面的規定有沒有\n324093\t345419\t我想針對所有的內容在他們其實之前叫做National Trade Evaluation NTE裡面其實都有以前多的議題美國其實是很關心的那有沒有要放行嗎我問你有沒有要放行那很關心的議題當中呢其實大家都會進一步去思考如何去去因應這樣所以已經鬆口了就是有可能要放行\n345819\t366030\t我想這個議題其實因為牽涉到在談判的確在食藥署已經觸及了三級的機關的江署長其實安心署長對這部分有點困難針對這個重要的議題整體的國家的談判我們是配合所以你是配合如果是經貿談判小組說放行你們就照辦就對了\n367071\t378783\t我想整個食品安全我們是以食品安全優先這個事情我已經知道你的答案了只要上面談判上面說放行你們就照辦第三個來即的容許值現在0.04是不是要放寬到0.09\n382046\t404998\t這個部分我們在食安優先的前提之下要達到食安優先其實在風險評估的前提這個有沒有放經貿談判小組曾立軍副院長說放你們就放我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析風險評估的架構之下那我知道了你們這三項都有可能要開放都已經觸及了只是你們現在沒有辦法回答\n407159\t432633\t接下來我要問勞動部一樣是關稅的議題我們看到衛福部在這個食安把關上面在關稅上面通通都是要聽行政院的指示邱部長你可以請回接下來我要問的是洪部長一樣是關稅議題我直接問你這一波的關稅預計會衝擊國內多少的勞工行政院是說12.5萬地方政府估起來是50萬\n433956\t458894\t到底會衝擊多少我想現在關稅談判的結果還沒有出來這當然都會有不確定的地方就是關稅出口稅率的數字還沒有最後談判的結果出來這個我想這個相關的預估都是非常參考性的而已因為不同的數字當然就會不同受影響的程度所以那個Range行政也估了一個12.5萬不是\n462098\t471125\t這個談判的數字沒出來今天還有個更重大的公安的問題我要問你這個台積電的外包的紙齋\n472808\t495345\t事實上這個昨天剛發生這一個也是一個很重大的就是他的這個冰水管就是墜落現在這一位員工受傷工人受傷還在搶救當中那但是呢我們發現是不是在去年台積電在南科同樣有一個類似的\n497979\t513784\t這個需要你們證實就是在南科18A廠有一個外包的僱員遭到905公斤一樣是冰水管重壓身亡有沒有這件事情我們可能要去了解一下\n514229\t540594\t你們作為主管機關都還不知道這麼重大的質問沒有通報我以為你問的內容是非常非常細的所以我們可能要去了解一下你們都沒有獲得任何的通報嗎我今天要提醒的勞動部就是說如果是同一件的話這個2024年已經有一件現在是在台南那現在又在嘉義又同樣的類型都是冰水管這樣的一個施工出現問題然後重壓導致員工身亡\n543795\t556589\t你們照照來講 針對這樣子同一個類型的案件勞動部應該要責任 這個涉及到這個職安的問題同一個類型 那應該就要提出警告或者是提醒大家怎麼樣去訪犯\n557541\t581029\t我有分兩個部分第一個部分是我們這兩天我們會去把到底有沒有這樣的事件就是是否這樣子的敘事是否屬實我們會把它弄清楚那弄清楚以後來跟委員辦公室來做報告這是第一點那第二個是說如果真的有屬實的話我想該依法那要來做什麼樣處理的可能不是只是規勸該依法怎麼做處理的我們就必須依法來去落實來處理就是這樣\n582529\t596876\t你們作為這個勞動主管機關就是這麼重大的職災不應該是你們不知道你們應該第一時間都應該要通報應該是要知道的所以這個是看到新聞上面是這樣子講的就是說當事人他們還有去陳情\n599537\t615248\t就是有這樣的一則興亡 這個是我們看到的然後我們連到最新的 昨天又一樣是冰水管所以我要你們好好去了解的是 像這一類的半導體他們需要的這一些大型的重物的這個設施設備它在移動跟搬動的過程當中 它會造成工人這個質災\n621573\t630598\t就是蠻嚴重的那這類型你們就有責任要去分析原因然後善盡提醒而且要去督導跟溫文說明其實過去\n632523\t647915\t以台積電它其實在公安相關的記錄是算是蠻不錯的就是因為它這是一個很旗艦性的企業那當然最近發生的這些事情我想我們也願意跟廠商來做更多的討論跟協助然後導致有這樣的一個情況我們願意來協助因為確實過去以台積電的這個它的工程的規模\n656001\t680562\t它其實是相當表現相對是比較好的那但是這幾個事情大家也覺得遺憾所以我們願意來給跟台積電來做討論哪些部分需要我們再多做協助那我們也希望這個模範生未來可以持續成為大家的模範因為我覺得這企業的領頭羊真的很重要好 我要求你們要去查清楚重點是未來的防範不應該讓這樣的事情一而再再而三的發生好不好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝部長\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請邱部長\n委員好 部長好 臺師長女竹她們這些學生被違法抽血的這件事情如果我們從人體研究法裡面 我們攤開第二條來看它開宗明義 你人體研究要尊重研究對象的自主權而且對研究對象侵害要最小\n要保障研究對象的權益在這個事件當中到目前為止我們看到的校方完全違反這個學生自主的意願強迫去抽血而且現在所揭露的如果是連續14天每天抽血高達三次這個是對他的侵害最小嗎一般人都難以想像啊你每天要被抽血連續14天有這樣子喔這這\n我不知道這一個研究計畫當時是怎麼通過倫理審查委員會的怎麼通過的因為如果他當時有載明這樣的一個情況我光看到這一點就不合理啊你今天只是為了研究而研究完全去忽略掉一個研究對象他該有的基本權益有什麼樣的研究會連續14天去抽學生的血\n過去你們有看過這樣的相關的研究嗎密度這麼高我覺得這件事情非常的離譜耶那另外離譜的是他去年其實就有學生反應了我要問的是那衛福部你們是這部法的主管機關喔你們什麼時候才知道這件事\n去年時候學生揭露的時候有通報到你們這邊來嗎我先跟委員報告一下謝謝委員關心這件事情我們感同身受跟委員一樣那但是我們一切都是按照依法來辦理其實人體研究法的確主管機關是衛生福利部但是人體研究這個研究的監督查核管理處分及研究對象權益的保障是教育部我知道這個事件是教育部\n所以我們當然是尊重教育部的調查跟處理嘛那我們當然以法的畫面我們只是說怎麼樣去把它落實這個法我知道但是部長我要告訴你一件事情就是說原來的法是這樣子並沒有錯以這個事件真正要負責的目的世界主管機關是教育部教育部沒有負擔起督導查核的這樣的一個任務\n那這個會不會有所謂的官官相互的問題他們通通都是教育系統又是台師大提出來的研究所以對他呢就輕輕放下那這個事件已經暴露出來如果未來我們的這個法的本身都是交由目的事業主管機關管轄\n但是呢他的倫理審查委員會看起來又沒有積極的發揮這個監督審查的功能那怎麼辦這是漏洞啊我要求你們根據這次的事件要去看到這樣的現象就是都是來自同一個體系的官官相互是免不了的\n這個就是我現在看到的情況我希望你們好好去調查清楚包括這個倫理審查委員會是不是施功能找了哪一些的對象這個委員會有沒有夠公平公正專業如果有的話應該第一時間這樣一個計畫根本連通過都不應該通過我自己的看法是這樣好不好\n因為今天時間有限 還有很多議題要問接下來就是民眾最關心的食安的問題這件事情必須 衛福部跟大家做說明今天農業部也來 可能一併要跟國人表示清楚因為現在傳言滿天飛我第一個要問的是現在美方有沒有要求我們取消美牛美豬的產品的標示 有或沒有你們接到訊息\n我想台美的談判這個部分是還在談判中所以我想這個是還沒有結論的時候我想就未來我行政院這邊來所以你們都被下了風口我們衛福部當然就是要堅持以食安照顧人民所以衛福部的立場不會取消產地標示\n是或不是我們一切都是會按照那個現行的法令食安法22條是要標的喔其實我們是一個身為一個WTO的一個國家我們當然是要國際的標準部長你回答我直接的問題我今天時間很有限我們科學分析跟國際的一個規範我這三題你就回答是或不是有或沒有就好不要再說明了有沒有要取消產地標示有或沒有就好\n謝謝委員因為國際的慣例底下我們在面對談判的過程我們都知道很多國家的你不要再講這些我的時間很有限有或沒有不敢回答第二個要不要放行美牛的絞肉跟內臟這個是食安法第15條裡面的規定有沒有\n我想針對所有的內容在他們其實之前叫做National Trade Evaluation NTE裡面其實都有以前多的議題美國其實是很關心的那有沒有要放行嗎我問你有沒有要放行那很關心的議題當中呢其實大家都會進一步去思考如何去去因應這樣所以已經鬆口了就是有可能要放行\n我想這個議題其實因為牽涉到在談判的確在食藥署已經觸及了三級的機關的江署長其實安心署長對這部分有點困難針對這個重要的議題整體的國家的談判我們是配合所以你是配合如果是經貿談判小組說放行你們就照辦就對了\n我想整個食品安全我們是以食品安全優先這個事情我已經知道你的答案了只要上面談判上面說放行你們就照辦第三個來即的容許值現在0.04是不是要放寬到0.09\n這個部分我們在食安優先的前提之下要達到食安優先其實在風險評估的前提這個有沒有放經貿談判小組曾立軍副院長說放你們就放我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析風險評估的架構之下那我知道了你們這三項都有可能要開放都已經觸及了只是你們現在沒有辦法回答\n接下來我要問勞動部一樣是關稅的議題我們看到衛福部在這個食安把關上面在關稅上面通通都是要聽行政院的指示邱部長你可以請回接下來我要問的是洪部長一樣是關稅議題我直接問你這一波的關稅預計會衝擊國內多少的勞工行政院是說12.5萬地方政府估起來是50萬\n到底會衝擊多少我想現在關稅談判的結果還沒有出來這當然都會有不確定的地方就是關稅出口稅率的數字還沒有最後談判的結果出來這個我想這個相關的預估都是非常參考性的而已因為不同的數字當然就會不同受影響的程度所以那個Range行政也估了一個12.5萬不是\n這個談判的數字沒出來今天還有個更重大的公安的問題我要問你這個台積電的外包的紙齋\n事實上這個昨天剛發生這一個也是一個很重大的就是他的這個冰水管就是墜落現在這一位員工受傷工人受傷還在搶救當中那但是呢我們發現是不是在去年台積電在南科同樣有一個類似的\n這個需要你們證實就是在南科18A廠有一個外包的僱員遭到905公斤一樣是冰水管重壓身亡有沒有這件事情我們可能要去了解一下\n你們作為主管機關都還不知道這麼重大的質問沒有通報我以為你問的內容是非常非常細的所以我們可能要去了解一下你們都沒有獲得任何的通報嗎我今天要提醒的勞動部就是說如果是同一件的話這個2024年已經有一件現在是在台南那現在又在嘉義又同樣的類型都是冰水管這樣的一個施工出現問題然後重壓導致員工身亡\n你們照照來講 針對這樣子同一個類型的案件勞動部應該要責任 這個涉及到這個職安的問題同一個類型 那應該就要提出警告或者是提醒大家怎麼樣去訪犯\n我有分兩個部分第一個部分是我們這兩天我們會去把到底有沒有這樣的事件就是是否這樣子的敘事是否屬實我們會把它弄清楚那弄清楚以後來跟委員辦公室來做報告這是第一點那第二個是說如果真的有屬實的話我想該依法那要來做什麼樣處理的可能不是只是規勸該依法怎麼做處理的我們就必須依法來去落實來處理就是這樣\n你們作為這個勞動主管機關就是這麼重大的職災不應該是你們不知道你們應該第一時間都應該要通報應該是要知道的所以這個是看到新聞上面是這樣子講的就是說當事人他們還有去陳情\n就是有這樣的一則興亡 這個是我們看到的然後我們連到最新的 昨天又一樣是冰水管所以我要你們好好去了解的是 像這一類的半導體他們需要的這一些大型的重物的這個設施設備它在移動跟搬動的過程當中 它會造成工人這個質災\n就是蠻嚴重的那這類型你們就有責任要去分析原因然後善盡提醒而且要去督導跟溫文說明其實過去\n以台積電它其實在公安相關的記錄是算是蠻不錯的就是因為它這是一個很旗艦性的企業那當然最近發生的這些事情我想我們也願意跟廠商來做更多的討論跟協助然後導致有這樣的一個情況我們願意來協助因為確實過去以台積電的這個它的工程的規模\n它其實是相當表現相對是比較好的那但是這幾個事情大家也覺得遺憾所以我們願意來給跟台積電來做討論哪些部分需要我們再多做協助那我們也希望這個模範生未來可以持續成為大家的模範因為我覺得這企業的領頭羊真的很重要好 我要求你們要去查清楚重點是未來的防範不應該讓這樣的事情一而再再而三的發生好不好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.428 --> 00:08.993\n好謝謝主席我們有請邱部長\n\n00:14.011 --> 00:27.002\n委員好部長好臺師長女竹她們這些學生被違法抽血的這件事情如果我們從人體研究法裡面我們攤開第二條來看它開宗明義你人體研究要尊重研究對象的自主權而且對研究對象侵害要最小\n\n00:39.753 --> 01:07.214\n要保障研究對象的權益在這個事件當中到目前為止我們看到的校方完全違反這個學生自主的意願強迫去抽血而且現在所揭露的如果是連續14天每天抽血高達三次這個是對他的侵害最小嗎一般人都難以想像啊你每天要被抽血連續14天有這樣子喔這這\n\n01:09.976 --> 01:33.877\n我不知道這一個研究計畫當時是怎麼通過倫理審查委員會的怎麼通過的因為如果他當時有載明這樣的一個情況我光看到這一點就不合理啊你今天只是為了研究而研究完全去忽略掉一個研究對象他該有的基本權益有什麼樣的研究會連續14天去抽學生的血\n\n01:35.158 --> 01:54.242\n過去你們有看過這樣的相關的研究嗎密度這麼高我覺得這件事情非常的離譜耶那另外離譜的是他去年其實就有學生反應了我要問的是那衛福部你們是這部法的主管機關喔你們什麼時候才知道這件事\n\n01:55.000 --> 02:19.455\n去年時候學生揭露的時候有通報到你們這邊來嗎我先跟委員報告一下謝謝委員關心這件事情我們感同身受跟委員一樣那但是我們一切都是按照依法來辦理其實人體研究法的確主管機關是衛生福利部但是人體研究這個研究的監督查核管理處分及研究對象權益的保障是教育部我知道這個事件是教育部\n\n02:22.677 --> 02:48.052\n所以我們當然是尊重教育部的調查跟處理嘛那我們當然以法的畫面我們只是說怎麼樣去把它落實這個法我知道但是部長我要告訴你一件事情就是說原來的法是這樣子並沒有錯以這個事件真正要負責的目的世界主管機關是教育部教育部沒有負擔起督導查核的這樣的一個任務\n\n02:49.773 --> 03:06.980\n那這個會不會有所謂的官官相互的問題他們通通都是教育系統又是台師大提出來的研究所以對他呢就輕輕放下那這個事件已經暴露出來如果未來我們的這個法的本身都是交由目的事業主管機關管轄\n\n03:08.120 --> 03:24.794\n但是呢他的倫理審查委員會看起來又沒有積極的發揮這個監督審查的功能那怎麼辦這是漏洞啊我要求你們根據這次的事件要去看到這樣的現象就是都是來自同一個體系的官官相互是免不了的\n\n03:25.394 --> 03:45.462\n這個就是我現在看到的情況我希望你們好好去調查清楚包括這個倫理審查委員會是不是施功能找了哪一些的對象這個委員會有沒有夠公平公正專業如果有的話應該第一時間這樣一個計畫根本連通過都不應該通過我自己的看法是這樣好不好\n\n03:46.803 --> 04:13.698\n因為今天時間有限還有很多議題要問接下來就是民眾最關心的食安的問題這件事情必須衛福部跟大家做說明今天農業部也來可能一併要跟國人表示清楚因為現在傳言滿天飛我第一個要問的是現在美方有沒有要求我們取消美牛美豬的產品的標示有或沒有你們接到訊息\n\n04:14.540 --> 04:37.235\n我想台美的談判這個部分是還在談判中所以我想這個是還沒有結論的時候我想就未來我行政院這邊來所以你們都被下了風口我們衛福部當然就是要堅持以食安照顧人民所以衛福部的立場不會取消產地標示\n\n04:38.277 --> 05:04.936\n是或不是我們一切都是會按照那個現行的法令食安法22條是要標的喔其實我們是一個身為一個WTO的一個國家我們當然是要國際的標準部長你回答我直接的問題我今天時間很有限我們科學分析跟國際的一個規範我這三題你就回答是或不是有或沒有就好不要再說明了有沒有要取消產地標示有或沒有就好\n\n05:05.644 --> 05:23.311\n謝謝委員因為國際的慣例底下我們在面對談判的過程我們都知道很多國家的你不要再講這些我的時間很有限有或沒有不敢回答第二個要不要放行美牛的絞肉跟內臟這個是食安法第15條裡面的規定有沒有\n\n05:24.093 --> 05:45.419\n我想針對所有的內容在他們其實之前叫做NationalTradeEvaluationNTE裡面其實都有以前多的議題美國其實是很關心的那有沒有要放行嗎我問你有沒有要放行那很關心的議題當中呢其實大家都會進一步去思考如何去去因應這樣所以已經鬆口了就是有可能要放行\n\n05:45.819 --> 06:06.030\n我想這個議題其實因為牽涉到在談判的確在食藥署已經觸及了三級的機關的江署長其實安心署長對這部分有點困難針對這個重要的議題整體的國家的談判我們是配合所以你是配合如果是經貿談判小組說放行你們就照辦就對了\n\n06:07.071 --> 06:18.783\n我想整個食品安全我們是以食品安全優先這個事情我已經知道你的答案了只要上面談判上面說放行你們就照辦第三個來即的容許值現在0.04是不是要放寬到0.09\n\n06:22.046 --> 06:44.998\n這個部分我們在食安優先的前提之下要達到食安優先其實在風險評估的前提這個有沒有放經貿談判小組曾立軍副院長說放你們就放我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析風險評估的架構之下那我知道了你們這三項都有可能要開放都已經觸及了只是你們現在沒有辦法回答\n\n06:47.159 --> 07:12.633\n接下來我要問勞動部一樣是關稅的議題我們看到衛福部在這個食安把關上面在關稅上面通通都是要聽行政院的指示邱部長你可以請回接下來我要問的是洪部長一樣是關稅議題我直接問你這一波的關稅預計會衝擊國內多少的勞工行政院是說12.5萬地方政府估起來是50萬\n\n07:13.956 --> 07:38.894\n到底會衝擊多少我想現在關稅談判的結果還沒有出來這當然都會有不確定的地方就是關稅出口稅率的數字還沒有最後談判的結果出來這個我想這個相關的預估都是非常參考性的而已因為不同的數字當然就會不同受影響的程度所以那個Range行政也估了一個12.5萬不是\n\n07:42.098 --> 07:51.125\n這個談判的數字沒出來今天還有個更重大的公安的問題我要問你這個台積電的外包的紙齋\n\n07:52.808 --> 08:15.345\n事實上這個昨天剛發生這一個也是一個很重大的就是他的這個冰水管就是墜落現在這一位員工受傷工人受傷還在搶救當中那但是呢我們發現是不是在去年台積電在南科同樣有一個類似的\n\n08:17.979 --> 08:33.784\n這個需要你們證實就是在南科18A廠有一個外包的僱員遭到905公斤一樣是冰水管重壓身亡有沒有這件事情我們可能要去了解一下\n\n08:34.229 --> 09:00.594\n你們作為主管機關都還不知道這麼重大的質問沒有通報我以為你問的內容是非常非常細的所以我們可能要去了解一下你們都沒有獲得任何的通報嗎我今天要提醒的勞動部就是說如果是同一件的話這個2024年已經有一件現在是在台南那現在又在嘉義又同樣的類型都是冰水管這樣的一個施工出現問題然後重壓導致員工身亡\n\n09:03.795 --> 09:16.589\n你們照照來講針對這樣子同一個類型的案件勞動部應該要責任這個涉及到這個職安的問題同一個類型那應該就要提出警告或者是提醒大家怎麼樣去訪犯\n\n09:17.541 --> 09:41.029\n我有分兩個部分第一個部分是我們這兩天我們會去把到底有沒有這樣的事件就是是否這樣子的敘事是否屬實我們會把它弄清楚那弄清楚以後來跟委員辦公室來做報告這是第一點那第二個是說如果真的有屬實的話我想該依法那要來做什麼樣處理的可能不是只是規勸該依法怎麼做處理的我們就必須依法來去落實來處理就是這樣\n\n09:42.529 --> 09:56.876\n你們作為這個勞動主管機關就是這麼重大的職災不應該是你們不知道你們應該第一時間都應該要通報應該是要知道的所以這個是看到新聞上面是這樣子講的就是說當事人他們還有去陳情\n\n09:59.537 --> 10:15.248\n就是有這樣的一則興亡這個是我們看到的然後我們連到最新的昨天又一樣是冰水管所以我要你們好好去了解的是像這一類的半導體他們需要的這一些大型的重物的這個設施設備它在移動跟搬動的過程當中它會造成工人這個質災\n\n10:21.573 --> 10:30.598\n就是蠻嚴重的那這類型你們就有責任要去分析原因然後善盡提醒而且要去督導跟溫文說明其實過去\n\n10:32.523 --> 10:47.915\n以台積電它其實在公安相關的記錄是算是蠻不錯的就是因為它這是一個很旗艦性的企業那當然最近發生的這些事情我想我們也願意跟廠商來做更多的討論跟協助然後導致有這樣的一個情況我們願意來協助因為確實過去以台積電的這個它的工程的規模\n\n10:56.001 --> 11:20.562\n它其實是相當表現相對是比較好的那但是這幾個事情大家也覺得遺憾所以我們願意來給跟台積電來做討論哪些部分需要我們再多做協助那我們也希望這個模範生未來可以持續成為大家的模範因為我覺得這企業的領頭羊真的很重要好我要求你們要去查清楚重點是未來的防範不應該讓這樣的事情一而再再而三的發生好不好謝謝謝謝委員謝謝部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.428,"end":8.993,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們有請邱部長"},{"start":14.011,"end":27.002,"text":"委員好 部長好 臺師長女竹她們這些學生被違法抽血的這件事情如果我們從人體研究法裡面 我們攤開第二條來看它開宗明義 你人體研究要尊重研究對象的自主權而且對研究對象侵害要最小"},{"start":39.753,"end":67.214,"text":"要保障研究對象的權益在這個事件當中到目前為止我們看到的校方完全違反這個學生自主的意願強迫去抽血而且現在所揭露的如果是連續14天每天抽血高達三次這個是對他的侵害最小嗎一般人都難以想像啊你每天要被抽血連續14天有這樣子喔這這"},{"start":69.976,"end":93.877,"text":"我不知道這一個研究計畫當時是怎麼通過倫理審查委員會的怎麼通過的因為如果他當時有載明這樣的一個情況我光看到這一點就不合理啊你今天只是為了研究而研究完全去忽略掉一個研究對象他該有的基本權益有什麼樣的研究會連續14天去抽學生的血"},{"start":95.158,"end":114.242,"text":"過去你們有看過這樣的相關的研究嗎密度這麼高我覺得這件事情非常的離譜耶那另外離譜的是他去年其實就有學生反應了我要問的是那衛福部你們是這部法的主管機關喔你們什麼時候才知道這件事"},{"start":115,"end":139.455,"text":"去年時候學生揭露的時候有通報到你們這邊來嗎我先跟委員報告一下謝謝委員關心這件事情我們感同身受跟委員一樣那但是我們一切都是按照依法來辦理其實人體研究法的確主管機關是衛生福利部但是人體研究這個研究的監督查核管理處分及研究對象權益的保障是教育部我知道這個事件是教育部"},{"start":142.677,"end":168.052,"text":"所以我們當然是尊重教育部的調查跟處理嘛那我們當然以法的畫面我們只是說怎麼樣去把它落實這個法我知道但是部長我要告訴你一件事情就是說原來的法是這樣子並沒有錯以這個事件真正要負責的目的世界主管機關是教育部教育部沒有負擔起督導查核的這樣的一個任務"},{"start":169.773,"end":186.98,"text":"那這個會不會有所謂的官官相互的問題他們通通都是教育系統又是台師大提出來的研究所以對他呢就輕輕放下那這個事件已經暴露出來如果未來我們的這個法的本身都是交由目的事業主管機關管轄"},{"start":188.12,"end":204.794,"text":"但是呢他的倫理審查委員會看起來又沒有積極的發揮這個監督審查的功能那怎麼辦這是漏洞啊我要求你們根據這次的事件要去看到這樣的現象就是都是來自同一個體系的官官相互是免不了的"},{"start":205.394,"end":225.462,"text":"這個就是我現在看到的情況我希望你們好好去調查清楚包括這個倫理審查委員會是不是施功能找了哪一些的對象這個委員會有沒有夠公平公正專業如果有的話應該第一時間這樣一個計畫根本連通過都不應該通過我自己的看法是這樣好不好"},{"start":226.803,"end":253.698,"text":"因為今天時間有限 還有很多議題要問接下來就是民眾最關心的食安的問題這件事情必須 衛福部跟大家做說明今天農業部也來 可能一併要跟國人表示清楚因為現在傳言滿天飛我第一個要問的是現在美方有沒有要求我們取消美牛美豬的產品的標示 有或沒有你們接到訊息"},{"start":254.54,"end":277.235,"text":"我想台美的談判這個部分是還在談判中所以我想這個是還沒有結論的時候我想就未來我行政院這邊來所以你們都被下了風口我們衛福部當然就是要堅持以食安照顧人民所以衛福部的立場不會取消產地標示"},{"start":278.277,"end":304.936,"text":"是或不是我們一切都是會按照那個現行的法令食安法22條是要標的喔其實我們是一個身為一個WTO的一個國家我們當然是要國際的標準部長你回答我直接的問題我今天時間很有限我們科學分析跟國際的一個規範我這三題你就回答是或不是有或沒有就好不要再說明了有沒有要取消產地標示有或沒有就好"},{"start":305.644,"end":323.311,"text":"謝謝委員因為國際的慣例底下我們在面對談判的過程我們都知道很多國家的你不要再講這些我的時間很有限有或沒有不敢回答第二個要不要放行美牛的絞肉跟內臟這個是食安法第15條裡面的規定有沒有"},{"start":324.093,"end":345.419,"text":"我想針對所有的內容在他們其實之前叫做National Trade Evaluation NTE裡面其實都有以前多的議題美國其實是很關心的那有沒有要放行嗎我問你有沒有要放行那很關心的議題當中呢其實大家都會進一步去思考如何去去因應這樣所以已經鬆口了就是有可能要放行"},{"start":345.819,"end":366.03,"text":"我想這個議題其實因為牽涉到在談判的確在食藥署已經觸及了三級的機關的江署長其實安心署長對這部分有點困難針對這個重要的議題整體的國家的談判我們是配合所以你是配合如果是經貿談判小組說放行你們就照辦就對了"},{"start":367.071,"end":378.783,"text":"我想整個食品安全我們是以食品安全優先這個事情我已經知道你的答案了只要上面談判上面說放行你們就照辦第三個來即的容許值現在0.04是不是要放寬到0.09"},{"start":382.046,"end":404.998,"text":"這個部分我們在食安優先的前提之下要達到食安優先其實在風險評估的前提這個有沒有放經貿談判小組曾立軍副院長說放你們就放我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析風險評估的架構之下那我知道了你們這三項都有可能要開放都已經觸及了只是你們現在沒有辦法回答"},{"start":407.159,"end":432.633,"text":"接下來我要問勞動部一樣是關稅的議題我們看到衛福部在這個食安把關上面在關稅上面通通都是要聽行政院的指示邱部長你可以請回接下來我要問的是洪部長一樣是關稅議題我直接問你這一波的關稅預計會衝擊國內多少的勞工行政院是說12.5萬地方政府估起來是50萬"},{"start":433.956,"end":458.894,"text":"到底會衝擊多少我想現在關稅談判的結果還沒有出來這當然都會有不確定的地方就是關稅出口稅率的數字還沒有最後談判的結果出來這個我想這個相關的預估都是非常參考性的而已因為不同的數字當然就會不同受影響的程度所以那個Range行政也估了一個12.5萬不是"},{"start":462.098,"end":471.125,"text":"這個談判的數字沒出來今天還有個更重大的公安的問題我要問你這個台積電的外包的紙齋"},{"start":472.808,"end":495.345,"text":"事實上這個昨天剛發生這一個也是一個很重大的就是他的這個冰水管就是墜落現在這一位員工受傷工人受傷還在搶救當中那但是呢我們發現是不是在去年台積電在南科同樣有一個類似的"},{"start":497.979,"end":513.784,"text":"這個需要你們證實就是在南科18A廠有一個外包的僱員遭到905公斤一樣是冰水管重壓身亡有沒有這件事情我們可能要去了解一下"},{"start":514.229,"end":540.594,"text":"你們作為主管機關都還不知道這麼重大的質問沒有通報我以為你問的內容是非常非常細的所以我們可能要去了解一下你們都沒有獲得任何的通報嗎我今天要提醒的勞動部就是說如果是同一件的話這個2024年已經有一件現在是在台南那現在又在嘉義又同樣的類型都是冰水管這樣的一個施工出現問題然後重壓導致員工身亡"},{"start":543.795,"end":556.589,"text":"你們照照來講 針對這樣子同一個類型的案件勞動部應該要責任 這個涉及到這個職安的問題同一個類型 那應該就要提出警告或者是提醒大家怎麼樣去訪犯"},{"start":557.541,"end":581.029,"text":"我有分兩個部分第一個部分是我們這兩天我們會去把到底有沒有這樣的事件就是是否這樣子的敘事是否屬實我們會把它弄清楚那弄清楚以後來跟委員辦公室來做報告這是第一點那第二個是說如果真的有屬實的話我想該依法那要來做什麼樣處理的可能不是只是規勸該依法怎麼做處理的我們就必須依法來去落實來處理就是這樣"},{"start":582.529,"end":596.876,"text":"你們作為這個勞動主管機關就是這麼重大的職災不應該是你們不知道你們應該第一時間都應該要通報應該是要知道的所以這個是看到新聞上面是這樣子講的就是說當事人他們還有去陳情"},{"start":599.537,"end":615.248,"text":"就是有這樣的一則興亡 這個是我們看到的然後我們連到最新的 昨天又一樣是冰水管所以我要你們好好去了解的是 像這一類的半導體他們需要的這一些大型的重物的這個設施設備它在移動跟搬動的過程當中 它會造成工人這個質災"},{"start":621.573,"end":630.598,"text":"就是蠻嚴重的那這類型你們就有責任要去分析原因然後善盡提醒而且要去督導跟溫文說明其實過去"},{"start":632.523,"end":647.915,"text":"以台積電它其實在公安相關的記錄是算是蠻不錯的就是因為它這是一個很旗艦性的企業那當然最近發生的這些事情我想我們也願意跟廠商來做更多的討論跟協助然後導致有這樣的一個情況我們願意來協助因為確實過去以台積電的這個它的工程的規模"},{"start":656.001,"end":680.562,"text":"它其實是相當表現相對是比較好的那但是這幾個事情大家也覺得遺憾所以我們願意來給跟台積電來做討論哪些部分需要我們再多做協助那我們也希望這個模範生未來可以持續成為大家的模範因為我覺得這企業的領頭羊真的很重要好 我要求你們要去查清楚重點是未來的防範不應該讓這樣的事情一而再再而三的發生好不好 謝謝謝謝委員 謝謝部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":350,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（9時45分）謝謝主席。有請邱部長。"],["主席：請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["王委員育敏：部長好。有關臺師大女足學生被違法抽血一事，人體研究法第二條開宗明義提到，人體研究要遵重研究對象的自主權，且對研究對象侵害要最小，要保障研究對象的權益。但到目前為止，我們看到校方在這次事件中完全違反學生的自主意願，強迫抽血。從目前所揭露的訊息可知，連續14天、每天抽血高達三次，這算侵害最小嗎？一般人實在難以想像每天都要被抽血，且連續14天，有這樣子的嗎？不知道這個研究計畫當時是怎麼通過倫理審查委員會的審查？若當時就載明如此情況……我光看到這一點就覺得不合理！就只是為了研究而研究，完全忽略被研究對象該有的基本權益！試問什麼樣的研究會連續14天抽學生的血？你們過去有看過這樣的相關研究嗎？且密度這麼高？我覺得這件事非常離譜！","另外一件離譜的事情是，去年其實就有學生反映了！所以我要問，衛福部是人體研究法的主管機關，請問你們什麼時候知道這件事？去年學生揭露的時候有通報到你們這邊來嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：謝謝委員關心這件事情，我們感同身受，這點跟委員一樣，我們一切均依法辦理。人體研究法的主管機關的確是衛生福利部，但人體研究的監督、查核、管理、處分及研究對象權益的保障……"],["王委員育敏：我知道是教育部。"],["邱部長泰源：由其事業主管機關管轄。"],["王委員育敏：這次事件是教育部。"],["邱部長泰源：我們當然尊重教育部的調查及處理，至於在法這方面，我們則是看怎麼樣去落實這個法……"],["王委員育敏：我知道。"],["邱部長泰源：如果有什麼問題，未來……"],["王委員育敏：部長，我必須告訴你一件事。法原來是這樣子訂，沒錯，而這次事件真正要負責的目的事業主管機關是教育部，但教育部並未負起督導查核的責任，所以其中會不會有所謂的官官相護問題？他們通通在教育系統，又是臺師大提出來的研究，於是就輕輕放下。這次事件已經暴露出若未來該法均交由目的事業主管機關管理，而倫理審查委員會並沒有發揮監督、審查的功能，請問怎麼辦？這是個漏洞啊！因此，你們要從這次事件去看到這樣的現象，也就是說都來自同一個體系，官官相護是免不了的，這就是我現在所看到的情況，我希望你們能好好調查清楚，包括倫理審查委員會是不是喪失功能了？他們找了哪些對象來審查？委員會是否夠公平、公正、專業？如果有的話，那麼這樣一個計畫在第一時間根本就不會通過！這是我自己的看法，好不好？"],["邱部長泰源：是。"],["王委員育敏：今天時間有限，我還有很多議題要問。接下來是民眾最關心的食安問題，而這件事情衛福部必須跟大家說明，今天農業部也有派人列席，所以你們要一併向國人表示清楚。","現在傳言滿天飛！所以我第一個要問的是：美方有沒有要求我們取消美牛、美豬的產品標示？有或沒有？以你們所接到訊息來說。"],["邱部長泰源：臺美有關這部分還在談判中，尚未有結論，所以未來由行政院這邊來……"],["王委員育敏：所以你們都被下了封口令？"],["邱部長泰源：我們衛福部當然會堅持食安，以照顧人民健康……"],["王委員育敏：所以衛福部的立場是不取消產地標示？是或不是？"],["邱部長泰源：我們一切都會按照……"],["王委員育敏：現行食安法第二十二條是規定要標示的！"],["邱部長泰源：身為WTO會員國，我們當然要……"],["王委員育敏：部長，你回答我的問題！我今天時間很有限，沒有辦法讓你們……"],["邱部長泰源：我們依據科學分析跟國際規範……"],["王委員育敏：我這三題你就回答是或不是、有或沒有就好。"],["邱部長泰源：我請食藥署署長……"],["王委員育敏：不要再說明了！有沒有要取消產地標示？有或沒有就好。"],["姜署長至剛：謝謝委員。在國際慣例下，在面對談判的過程中，我們知道很多國家都……我們目前還沒有宣布。"],["王委員育敏：你不要再講這些，我的時間很有限！有或沒有？不敢回答嗎？第二個，要不要放行美牛絞肉跟內臟？這是食安法第十五條的規定，有沒有？有沒有要放寬？"],["姜署長至剛：針對所有內容，之前的National Trade Evaluation（NTE）裡有很多議題，美國對此其實很關心……"],["王委員育敏：有沒有要放行？我問你有沒有要放行？"],["姜署長至剛：針對所關心的議題當中，大家都會進一步思考如何去因應這樣的……"],["王委員育敏：所以已經鬆口了，就是有可能要放行？"],["姜署長至剛：這議題牽涉到談判，的確在食藥署……"],["王委員育敏：已經觸及了？"],["姜署長至剛：三級機關的姜署長、安心署長其實對這部分有點困難，這個重要議題涉及國家整體談判，所以我們會配合行政院……"],["王委員育敏：所以你會配合？如果經貿談判小組說放行，你們會照辦就對了？"],["姜署長至剛：對整個食品安全，我們是以食品安全優先的……"],["王委員育敏：好，我已經知道你的答案了。只要上面在談判時說放行，你們就照辦！","第三個，萊劑的容許值現在是0.04，未來是不是要放寬到0.09？"],["姜署長至剛：在食安優先的條件下，要達到其實要以風險評估為前提。風險評估在國際的調和下……"],["王委員育敏：這個有沒有要放寬？只要經貿談判小組鄭麗君副院長說放，你們就放？"],["姜署長至剛：我們一定是在食品安全的科學分析、風險評估架構下去進行我們的……"],["王委員育敏：好，我知道了，這三項你們都有可能開放，都已經觸及了，只是你們現在沒有辦法回答。","接下來我要請問勞動部，一樣是關稅議題。我們看到衛福部在食安把關上、在關稅上通通都聽行政院指示。邱部長請回，接下來我要請問洪部長。","一樣是關稅議題，我直接問你，這一波關稅預計會衝擊國內多少勞工？行政院說12.5萬，地方政府預估50萬，到底會衝擊多少？"],["洪部長申翰：現在關稅談判的結果還沒有出來，所以會有不確定之處。也就是關稅……"],["王委員育敏：所以你也不知道？"],["洪部長申翰：有關出口稅率的數字，最後談判的結果還沒出來，因此相關預估都只是參考性而已，畢竟不同的數字受影響的程度就會不同！"],["王委員育敏：以range來說，行政院估了12.5萬？"],["洪部長申翰：不是！在談判數字沒出來前，這些都是……"],["王委員育敏：我就不講數字問題，我今天還有一個更重大的工安問題要問你，也就是台積電的外包職災。昨天才剛發生很重大的意外──冰水管墜落導致工人受傷，還在搶救當中。其實去年台積電在南科也發生類似案件，不過這個需要你們證實，即南科18A廠有外包僱員遭到905公斤的冰水管重壓身亡，有沒有這件事？"],["洪部長申翰：我們可能要進一步了解一下。"],["王委員育敏：你們作為主管機關都不知道？這麼重大的職安？沒有通報……"],["洪部長申翰：委員問的內容非常非常細，所以我們可能要去了解一下。"],["王委員育敏：你們沒有獲得任何通報嗎？我今天要提醒勞動部注意的是，如果是同一類案件，其實在2024年已經有一件，在臺南；現在則是在嘉義，都是同樣類型，都是冰水管的施工出現問題，導致重壓員工身亡！照道理講，對於同類型案件勞動部應該有責任，畢竟涉及到職安問題！既是同類型，就應該要提出警告，或提醒大家防範。"],["洪部長申翰：我分兩個部分：第一個部分，這兩天我們會把到底有沒有這樣的事件、是否屬實……"],["王委員育敏：對，你們要去查。"],["洪部長申翰：我們會弄清楚，弄清楚後再向委員辦公室報告，這是第一點。第二個，若屬實的話，可能就不只是規勸，而是依法該怎麼處理的，我們就必須依法落實處理，就是這樣。"],["王委員育敏：勞動部作為主管機關，對於這麼重大的職災你們不應該不知道！因為第一時間都要通報，所以你們應該是知道的，而且新聞也講了當事人有去陳情，有這樣的新聞出現，這是我們所看到的。結果昨天又發生最新的一件，一樣又是冰水管，所以我要你們好好去了解，像這類半導體需要的大型重物設施設備，它在移動跟搬動的過程當中會造成工人職災，而且是滿嚴重的，這一類型你們就有責任要去分析原因，然後善盡提醒，而且要去督導，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實過去台積電在工安相關紀錄算是滿不錯的，因為它是一個旗艦性的企業。"],["王委員育敏：對。"],["洪部長申翰：至於近期發生的這些事情，我們也願意跟廠商做更多的討論跟協助，包括跟業主……"],["王委員育敏：他們是不是有趕工的壓力，導致有這樣的一個情況？"],["洪部長申翰：我們願意協助，因為以台積電過去的工程規模……"],["王委員育敏：是啊！它是模範生啊！"],["洪部長申翰：其實它表現是相對比較好的，但是這幾件事情大家也覺得遺憾，所以我們願意跟台積電討論哪些部分需要我們再多作協助，我們也希望這個模範生未來可以持續成為大家的模範。"],["王委員育敏：當然。"],["洪部長申翰：我覺得企業的領頭羊，這很重要！"],["王委員育敏：好，我要求你們要去查清楚。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["王委員育敏：重點是未來的防範，不應該讓這樣事情一而再、再而三的發生，好不好？謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["主席（陳委員菁徽代）：謝謝委員，謝謝部長。","下一位請蘇清泉召委。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-21","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","王育敏","涂權吉","賴惠員","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","陳冠廷","劉建國","黃秀芳","林月琴","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","王正旭","陳瑩","陳永康","楊曜","廖偉翔","盧縣一"],"page_start":325,"meetingDate":["2025-07-17"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部部長、財政部部長、農業部針對「因應嚴重災情、緊急重大事件，\n醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00006"}}}