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{\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1046.144, \"end\": 1046.424, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 1046.424, \"end\": 1046.444, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 1046.444, \"end\": 1046.604, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 1046.604, \"end\": 1046.724, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1046.724, \"end\": 1046.744, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,059 --> 00:00:13,129\n謝謝主席我請保證部部長請部長財政部次長農業部次長兩位次長來第一張\n\n2\n00:00:26,768 --> 00:00:33,714\n部長這個問題我上個禮拜醫院協會區醫院協會都一直來反映\n\n3\n00:00:34,864 --> 00:00:58,007\n那你們開會就這樣倉促的決定說醫協中心跟區議院要比照上市公司來管理只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰這個反彈非常大那我有找師長來做協調但是反正有1000個理由說一點被實施8月1號\n\n4\n00:00:59,366 --> 00:01:12,315\n那這個是非常嚴重,我是覺得,我常常跟你電話聽說你是在中邪,你是怕今天事情不夠煩,不夠派出力,要跟火上加油,那你的看法怎麼樣?\n\n5\n00:01:13,911 --> 00:01:29,644\n跟素仁說明喔其實我想勞務在這一次這個這個處罰罰還的採處罰還的公共性原則的調整上面其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性的要求其實只是針對\n\n6\n00:01:32,346 --> 00:01:56,321\n這個財儲他的下限從原本是兩萬元到一百萬現在改成是五萬到一百萬其實我們上限也並沒有動薪資的部分我想是沒問題就是兩萬到風時的問題對那我現在現在我的意思是說我們其實只是從兩萬提高到五萬喔這花款是吧對我們只把這個花款從兩萬提高到五萬一百五十萬啊沒有沒有我們上限還是一百啊\n\n7\n00:01:57,782 --> 00:02:18,360\n上限還是一百萬上限是一百萬只是下限的部分從兩萬拉到五萬那這個我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性的要求只要醫院能夠遵守法規把法規做好這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響啊我跟部長講這個勞基網是霸王條款\n\n8\n00:02:19,488 --> 00:02:39,718\n霸王,不是你做母天堂比霸王一向就是醫療院所碰到這個,大家都坐在等公家醫院也有約聘人員,他也是壓力都很大那我跟你剛剛陳昭志委員,一個好幾個委員在講台灣有韌性,台灣能夠發展台灣可以這樣,現在不錯,那是台灣24小時在碰\n\n9\n00:02:43,638 --> 00:02:58,285\n所以晶片業者他們三班坐另外一班叫做Oncall所以是四班人在輪那就是付出很高的代價那些人都是在賣肝啦賣命啦那他的酬勞250年薪300年薪500年薪應該的那醫療人員剛剛陳昭書人講的值班熬夜現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室\n\n10\n00:03:12,796 --> 00:03:21,142\n我去看他結果小兒科的急診你知道看病的那個兒科醫師是幾歲嗎57歲他看著我就站到後腳\n\n11\n00:03:25,638 --> 00:03:53,218\n說我做到腹瘦還要看急診還要加上尾巴加上尾巴是練不了的因為孩子大家都很緊張所以我要跟你報告現在醫院是全部人都納入勞基法包括住院醫師也納入勞基法住院醫師值班都有限制工時也限制反而是保護呢現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班看你有要求嗎\n\n12\n00:03:55,712 --> 00:03:59,780\n釜山高平均要60歲啦麻醉高我說現在開桌一開超過八點鐘、十點鐘要很多啦那都麻醉高都醫生外科醫生大家在那邊拚拚後\n\n13\n00:04:10,735 --> 00:04:25,400\n對這是很嚴肅的問題那個跟文說明我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益我們就是因為重視他們的勞動權益也是因為有很多的醫護人員來跟我們反映\n\n14\n00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:53,899\n其實醫院如果違法其實有幾個相關的法規違反的話其實常常只是被罰兩萬元這個違法的成本真的太低了其實這正是很多的醫護人員來跟勞動部反映認為這個財儲過去的財儲不符合比例原則所以我們很怕現在醫學中心跟區醫院因為很多區醫院都是在各個縣市的偏遠地區尤其區醫院都是\n\n15\n00:04:55,319 --> 00:05:18,388\n施仲良說東塔醫院啦,我看是碼頭醫院啦或是標桿醫院都沒關係,反正那些都很重要那些都是現在主治醫師級在撐耶那個醫院協會李慧朋他的兒子好像神經外科他兒子半夜要去開刀,這把小孩子丟給他他阿公在過分主治醫師其實現在是適用老計法的84條之一啊\n\n16\n00:05:19,284 --> 00:05:25,569\n主治醫師現在住院醫師那是沒有問題主治醫師沒有公實規範我跟妳講喔再過去啦因為說一邊會走走那邊用檢疫想要檢疫就都一邊所以那邊用檢疫昨天沒人要開桌沒人要拒收有人求像日本這樣一個產婦去洗腳救護車\n\n17\n00:05:45,063 --> 00:06:11,489\n請問施加醫院沒有一間要收台灣如果變成這樣那一頓就停產這個跟委員說明我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動的權益所以我們其實才做這個方面的調整那我們也覺得我們也看到現在醫護人員這個人才流財相關的困境所以我們也才覺得更需要院方把\n\n18\n00:06:12,009 --> 00:06:16,857\n法尊給做好這才有助於流程我們在熬夜我們在值班我們在run24小時\n\n19\n00:06:18,908 --> 00:06:39,706\n熬夜是很累的,掉頭髮會掉的時候我就會掉,脖子也會掉皮膚會老化,免疫力會下降,那是會破壞的沒有人,我就會繼續動下去女性,我們婦女人員如果是大一班常常上,那連月經週期都會亂的那很嚴重的事啦,台灣的命運是在這,台灣的韌性在這所以這個案要實施\n\n20\n00:06:47,032 --> 00:07:00,402\n來我們財政部處長我問你川普說加班費值班費都免稅我覺得他講得很好啊雖然川普常常亂講話但是他講這個非常好\n\n21\n00:07:01,403 --> 00:07:09,989\n因為那都是在賣命整個美國要進步也是這樣這的人為了台灣不關是服務業不關是醫療我們公家醫院的醫師社團法人財團法人的醫師都是這樣在碰這的人極重任難的主治醫師他這樣賣命哪個值班費現在都要繳稅而且稅都很重\n\n22\n00:07:29,673 --> 00:07:55,219\n我們現在始終兩處長跟部長在推說這些家職班會不管公家醫院不管私人醫院不管財政法院都可以給免稅美國就這樣幹啊我們能不能這樣幹啊不然的話組織醫師政策醫師全部跑光了都招來經受因為經受可以執行業務所得嘛所以你這個事情非常嚴重如果要修法我跟\n\n23\n00:07:56,220 --> 00:08:06,195\n財政委員會的人說要修法給他免稅額啦什麼特別扣除但是那都不太可行就是把夾環會值班會直接認定你有這個Data嗎\n\n24\n00:08:08,264 --> 00:08:24,759\n跟委員報告一下其實我們也了解我們中央健保署其實有在檢討這部分那其實我們財政部非常的積極已經有函詢衛福部在釐清這個延長工作時間的加班時數跟他的支付標準的問題那這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部來演繹\n\n25\n00:08:26,778 --> 00:08:55,496\n你把他每個月的那個所得等下除以他的工時然後算出來每個小時那他如果超時的或者是時間外的就讓他免稅能夠報出來這樣可行這個沒有多少錢嘛不然的話留不住人喔我跟你講我覺得建議蠻好的這個部分我們來看看我們財政中心可不可以跑一下但是那個工作時數可能醫院才會有所以這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部\n\n26\n00:08:55,996 --> 00:09:24,447\n你要積極來做不然的話就很嚴重被勞動部再K下去的話我告訴你兩頭空連陳先生都不想值班了還是有受那個勞基法的一個加班時數規定的一個限制啦所以對你們是用醫師法所以我們會持續的來跟衛福部那持續跟我們的醫療院所這邊衛福部看看他們有沒有這個我們的一些醫師的一個加班時數的規定\n\n27\n00:09:25,828 --> 00:09:45,540\n然後我們來學衛生部一起研究我希望衛生部還有那個石署長跟家政部在那邊積極啦這個公家醫院的意思也是一樣那你如果沒有的話這個社團法院醫院、私人醫院把這個拉高把這個有加值班費免稅我要跟國家賠的多少料料?跟賠的多少我沒辦法\n\n28\n00:09:48,274 --> 00:09:59,102\n那是很嚴重的問題你現在值班的人都五六十歲六十幾歲值班我們屏東有婦產科醫師八十五歲還在控案還在值班一個八十五歲一個六十五歲請問委員其實我們都去過議院所以這個你們財政部不要說到財政部說到婦稅層大家都拖著走拖著頂角角不委員我們你現在幾歲是長命性的\n\n29\n00:10:17,996 --> 00:10:33,950\n我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性啦但是我們了解醫療院所的我們的醫生的一些他工作的一個特殊性所以我們會來檢討這個合理性你的多久可以討論出來這個我們會看跟衛福部一起合作兩禮拜一個月應該是沒辦法這麼快一個月也不太快\n\n30\n00:10:40,455 --> 00:10:51,058\n我們會積極來處理兩個聯席會一直來跟你K我們可能也需要一些Data來研究看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理報告一下這個衛福部我們有請建保署這位很會心會心還是會心很會心的去做很多的討論很會心的做的討論也很用心的跟\n\n31\n00:11:10,124 --> 00:11:26,475\n現在是請醫院協會因為這個科別有它的複雜不同性所以我們用最快的適度所以我想也拜託財政部能夠用最快的適度因為希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度那明年就可以來\n\n32\n00:11:39,984 --> 00:11:51,760\n現在他就看一半安全跟那些醫院是救人的單位啦所以我們開刀絕對不會開到一半就停因為他的想法跟你就不一樣啦\n\n33\n00:11:53,407 --> 00:12:06,317\n他是算不太年輕他很年輕他的生活就跟我們不一樣你們常常說的理想為了賠人救人什麼的說那些五四三的現在都沒在聽我們那個時代真的是要有這樣站在內地但是現在不一樣所以現在都很很很spatical的所以所以這施主長你趕緊啦一位一位一位\n\n34\n00:12:21,956 --> 00:12:48,906\n我們會要求臺灣醫院協會盡快希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來提出來以後就請負稅署能夠財政部能夠做然後我們這邊相關的成績衛護部的高階會議也一直在討論怎麼樣把它落實那最重要的就是財政部這邊我自己都吵死了對不起啊因為部長你這個案對的前往是要執行你往是要執行就對了\n\n35\n00:12:50,166 --> 00:12:50,949\n啊你就要看要怎麼\n\n36\n00:12:52,862 --> 00:13:18,520\n實行上的那個態度有很多很多嘛你不要在火上加油讓我們這個這個已經很慘了會不會說明我們願意來跟醫院來協助他們相關的法尊的輔導我想這我們都願意做但是我們做這件事情正是我想大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益我們真的是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益到時候醫院就一句話就都吵死了現在在開刀開刀棒已經滿載了\n\n37\n00:13:20,982 --> 00:13:21,843\n我們其實針對緊急性的連續手術其實是我們有開了一個這個牢記法的\n\n38\n00:13:40,345 --> 00:14:06,982\n相對應的這個彈性其實如果是因為緊急手術他沒有辦法如時間的下班的話其實在這邊是有彈性的所以沒有那個問題其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費這個我們要不給加班費這有助於流財嗎不給加班費難道我們就是應該沒有沒有醫療案者醫療案者的薪資的調整我在這裡也跟你承諾\n\n39\n00:14:08,818 --> 00:14:18,124\n衛福給我們的錢健保提供員的錢我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件增加薪資這個我們可以承諾我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區域醫學院協會\n\n40\n00:14:19,417 --> 00:14:28,979\n每一張碼放在一起都在改善市場已經改善大家都變變變從現在從數據上面統計上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費這個我們來努力這個難道不給加班費勞動部可以放鬆嗎好來來來農業部來來來我還有30秒30秒就好委員好\n\n41\n00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:55,082\n現在很多市街市地的在陳情陳情都是我跟張嘉軒在接我平常都在市地市街市街兩個我們現在榮譽木美國進來的這些產品我們的關稅是多少\n\n42\n00:15:03,630 --> 00:15:12,557\n差不多6.5我們的平均關稅是16.6我們去美國是平均5.幾那我們像豬肉進來的關稅是12.5我們給他收12.5現在如果他全部要求我們都領關稅像那個越南像印尼這樣全部領那我們會不會崩盤\n\n43\n00:15:21,772 --> 00:15:31,478\n應該是這樣說啦其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相大家有來有去譬如說我們的黃小玉大部分都從美國來我們這裡去美國的也有我們的譬如說我們蘭花啦這裡的花卉水產品所以本來就是互相在搭的啊但是當然是臺灣的過程當中一定是大家在那我也要替我們臺灣的農業顧啊他也相當希望他的農產品來臺灣民關稅的話那個譬如豬肉牛肉本來就進來很多啦\n\n44\n00:15:49,289 --> 00:16:11,161\n那豬肉的話,現在進來的,如果是零關稅,這樣大舉入侵進來到30%的話,我們的豬籠是會崩潰的喔?你們要怎麼補貨,你們有配套嗎?我們特別預算上禮拜通過5000多億,裡面有一部要給農業的,夠不夠?沒有的話它是沒有屋頂的喔,我們是打開屋頂\n\n45\n00:16:12,262 --> 00:16:14,383\n我們台灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本美國進來是差不多60塊如果在12.5%的關稅拿掉剩下50塊不到\n\n46\n00:16:36,983 --> 00:16:58,641\n省一半那個地板很細那牛肉阿賴雞肉蚵仔蚵仔我都拖拖所以稻米稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸比台灣出產的還多那這個我們稻米現在一公斤也是50塊嘛那美國進來的才35塊如果要零關稅的話\n\n47\n00:17:00,168 --> 00:17:12,677\n所以我賺了20幾塊30塊我們台灣人賺的錢跟賣的錢日本傢伙要賺的錢賺的錢嘛對不對坦白說我昨天站在我們台灣人都站不住了今天你站不住啦站不住要怎麼補貨啦站不住啦站不住啦拜託大家支持啦\n\n48\n00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:26,744\n那個萊克多巴胺那個也要堅持一下你們也要國內的萊克多巴胺不使用所以萊克多巴胺不可以在美國進來0.40.9這個要有好的配套啦這個很重要很重要很重要謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5059\t13129\t謝謝主席我請保證部部長請部長財政部次長農業部次長兩位次長來 第一張\n26768\t33714\t部長 這個問題我上個禮拜醫院協會 區醫院協會都一直來反映\n34864\t58007\t那你們開會就這樣倉促的決定說醫協中心跟區議院要比照上市公司來管理只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰這個反彈非常大那我有找師長來做協調但是反正有1000個理由說一點被實施8月1號\n59366\t72315\t那這個是非常嚴重,我是覺得,我常常跟你電話聽說你是在中邪,你是怕今天事情不夠煩,不夠派出力,要跟火上加油,那你的看法怎麼樣?\n73911\t89644\t跟素仁說明喔其實我想勞務在這一次這個這個處罰罰還的採處罰還的公共性原則的調整上面其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性的要求其實只是針對\n92346\t116321\t這個財儲他的下限從原本是兩萬元到一百萬現在改成是五萬到一百萬其實我們上限也並沒有動薪資的部分我想是沒問題就是兩萬到 風時的問題對那我現在現在我的意思是說我們其實只是從兩萬提高到五萬喔這花款是吧對我們只把這個花款從兩萬提高到五萬一百五十萬啊沒有沒有我們上限還是一百啊\n117782\t138360\t上限還是一百萬上限是一百萬只是下限的部分從兩萬拉到五萬那這個我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性的要求只要醫院能夠遵守法規把法規做好這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響啊我跟部長講這個勞基網是霸王條款\n139488\t159718\t霸王,不是你做母天堂比霸王一向就是醫療院所碰到這個,大家都坐在等公家醫院也有約聘人員,他也是壓力都很大那我跟你剛剛陳昭志委員,一個好幾個委員在講台灣有韌性,台灣能夠發展台灣可以這樣,現在不錯,那是台灣24小時在碰\n163638\t178285\t所以晶片業者 他們三班坐 另外一班叫做On call所以是四班人在輪 那就是付出很高的代價那些人都是在賣肝啦 賣命啦那他的酬勞250年薪 300年薪 500年薪 應該的那醫療人員 剛剛陳昭書人講的值班 熬夜 現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室\n192796\t201142\t我去看他結果小兒科的急診你知道看病的那個兒科醫師是幾歲嗎57歲他看著我就站到後腳\n205638\t233218\t說我做到腹瘦還要看急診還要加上尾巴加上尾巴是練不了的因為孩子大家都很緊張所以我要跟你報告現在醫院是全部人都納入勞基法包括住院醫師也納入勞基法住院醫師值班都有限制工時也限制反而是保護呢現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班看你有要求嗎\n235712\t239780\t釜山高平均要60歲啦麻醉高 我說現在開桌一開超過八點鐘、十點鐘要很多啦那都麻醉高 都醫生 外科醫生大家在那邊拚拚後\n250735\t265400\t對這是很嚴肅的問題那個跟文說明我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益我們就是因為重視他們的勞動權益也是因為有很多的醫護人員來跟我們反映\n266300\t293899\t其實醫院如果違法其實有幾個相關的法規違反的話其實常常只是被罰兩萬元這個違法的成本真的太低了其實這正是很多的醫護人員來跟勞動部反映認為這個財儲過去的財儲不符合比例原則所以我們很怕現在醫學中心跟區醫院因為很多區醫院都是在各個縣市的偏遠地區尤其區醫院都是\n295319\t318388\t施仲良說東塔醫院啦,我看是碼頭醫院啦或是標桿醫院都沒關係,反正那些都很重要那些都是現在主治醫師級在撐耶那個醫院協會李慧朋他的兒子好像神經外科他兒子半夜要去開刀,這把小孩子丟給他他阿公在過分主治醫師其實現在是適用老計法的84條之一啊\n319284\t325569\t主治醫師現在 住院醫師那是沒有問題主治醫師沒有公實規範我跟妳講喔 再過去啦 因為說一邊會走走那邊用檢疫 想要檢疫就都一邊所以那邊用檢疫 昨天沒人要開桌沒人要拒收 有人求像日本這樣一個產婦 去洗腳 救護車\n345063\t371489\t請問施加醫院沒有一間要收台灣如果變成這樣那一頓就停產這個跟委員說明我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動的權益所以我們其實才做這個方面的調整那我們也覺得我們也看到現在醫護人員這個人才流財相關的困境所以我們也才覺得更需要院方把\n372009\t376857\t法尊給做好 這才有助於流程我們在熬夜 我們在值班我們在run 24小時\n378908\t399706\t熬夜是很累的,掉頭髮會掉的時候我就會掉,脖子也會掉皮膚會老化,免疫力會下降,那是會破壞的沒有人,我就會繼續動下去女性,我們婦女人員如果是大一班常常上,那連月經週期都會亂的那很嚴重的事啦,台灣的命運是在這,台灣的韌性在這所以這個案要實施\n407032\t420402\t來我們財政部處長我問你川普說加班費值班費都免稅我覺得他講得很好啊雖然川普常常亂講話但是他講這個非常好\n421403\t429989\t因為那都是在賣命 整個美國要進步也是這樣這的人為了台灣 不關是服務業 不關是醫療我們公家醫院的醫師 社團法人 財團法人的醫師都是這樣在碰這的人 極重任難的主治醫師他這樣賣命 哪個值班費 現在都要繳稅 而且稅都很重\n449673\t475219\t我們現在始終兩處長跟部長在推說這些家職班會不管公家醫院 不管私人醫院 不管財政法院都可以給免稅 美國就這樣幹啊我們能不能這樣幹啊不然的話 組織醫師 政策醫師全部跑光了都招來經受 因為經受可以執行業務所得嘛所以你這個事情非常嚴重 如果要修法 我跟\n476220\t486195\t財政委員會的人說要修法 給他免稅額啦什麼特別扣除 但是那都不太可行就是把夾環會 值班會直接認定你有這個Data嗎\n488264\t504759\t跟委員報告一下其實我們也了解我們中央健保署其實有在檢討這部分那其實我們財政部非常的積極已經有函詢衛福部在釐清這個延長工作時間的加班時數跟他的支付標準的問題那這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部來演繹\n506778\t535496\t你把他每個月的那個所得等下除以他的工時然後算出來每個小時那他如果超時的或者是時間外的就讓他免稅能夠報出來 這樣可行這個沒有多少錢嘛不然的話留不住人喔 我跟你講我覺得建議蠻好的這個部分我們來看看我們財政中心可不可以跑一下但是那個工作時數可能醫院才會有所以這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部\n535996\t564447\t你要積極來做 不然的話就很嚴重 被勞動部再K下去的話我告訴你 兩頭空連陳先生都不想值班了還是有受那個勞基法的一個加班時數規定的一個限制啦所以 對你們是用醫師法所以我們會持續的來跟衛福部那持續跟我們的醫療院所這邊衛福部看看他們有沒有這個我們的一些醫師的一個加班時數的規定\n565828\t585540\t然後我們來學衛生部一起研究我希望衛生部還有那個石署長跟家政部在那邊積極啦這個公家醫院的意思也是一樣那你如果沒有的話這個社團法院醫院、私人醫院把這個拉高把這個有加值班費免稅我要跟國家賠的多少料料?跟賠的多少我沒辦法\n588274\t599102\t那是很嚴重的問題 你現在值班的人都五六十歲 六十幾歲值班我們屏東有婦產科醫師 八十五歲 還在控案 還在值班一個八十五歲 一個六十五歲 請問委員 其實我們都去過議院所以這個你們財政部不要說到財政部 說到婦稅層 大家都拖著走 拖著頂角角不 委員我們你現在幾歲是長命性的\n617996\t633950\t我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性啦但是我們了解醫療院所的我們的醫生的一些他工作的一個特殊性所以我們會來檢討這個合理性你的多久可以討論出來這個我們會看跟衛福部一起合作兩禮拜一個月應該是沒辦法這麼快一個月也不太快\n640455\t651058\t我們會積極來處理兩個聯席會一直來跟你K我們可能也需要一些Data來研究看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理報告一下 這個衛福部我們有請建保署這位很會心會心還是會心很會心的去做很多的討論很會心的做的討論也很用心的跟\n670124\t686475\t現在是請醫院協會因為這個科別有它的複雜不同性所以我們用最快的適度所以我想也拜託財政部能夠用最快的適度因為希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度那明年就可以來\n699984\t711760\t現在他就看一半安全跟那些醫院是救人的單位啦所以我們開刀絕對不會開到一半就停因為他的想法跟你就不一樣啦\n713407\t726317\t他是算不太年輕 他很年輕他的生活就跟我們不一樣 你們常常說的理想 為了賠人 救人什麼的說那些五四三的 現在都沒在聽 我們那個時代真的是要有這樣站在內地 但是現在不一樣所以 現在都很很很spatical的所以所以這 施主長你趕緊啦一位一位一位\n741956\t768906\t我們會要求臺灣醫院協會盡快希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來提出來以後就請負稅署能夠財政部能夠做然後我們這邊相關的成績衛護部的高階會議也一直在討論怎麼樣把它落實那最重要的就是財政部這邊我自己都吵死了對不起啊因為部長你這個案對的前往是要執行你往是要執行就對了\n770166\t770949\t啊你就要看要怎麼\n772862\t798520\t實行上的那個態度有很多很多嘛你不要在火上加油讓我們這個這個已經很慘了會不會說明我們願意來跟醫院來協助他們相關的法尊的輔導我想這我們都願意做但是我們做這件事情正是我想大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益我們真的是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益到時候醫院就一句話就都吵死了現在在開刀開刀棒已經滿載了\n800982\t801843\t我們其實針對緊急性的連續手術其實是我們有開了一個這個牢記法的\n820345\t846982\t相對應的這個彈性其實如果是因為緊急手術他沒有辦法如時間的下班的話其實在這邊是有彈性的所以沒有那個問題其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費這個我們要不給加班費這有助於流財嗎不給加班費難道我們就是應該沒有沒有醫療案者醫療案者的薪資的調整我在這裡也跟你承諾\n848818\t858124\t衛福給我們的錢 健保提供員的錢我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件 增加薪資這個我們可以承諾 我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區域醫學院協會\n859417\t868979\t每一張碼放在一起都在改善 市場已經改善 大家都變變變從現在從數據上面 統計上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費 這個我們來努力這個難道不給加班費 勞動部可以放鬆嗎好 來來來 農業部 來來來我還有30秒 30秒就好委員好\n887080\t895082\t現在很多市街市地的在陳情陳情都是我跟張嘉軒在接我平常都在市地市街市街兩個我們現在榮譽木美國進來的這些產品我們的關稅是多少\n903630\t912557\t差不多6.5我們的平均關稅是16.6我們去美國是平均5.幾那我們像豬肉進來的關稅是12.5我們給他收12.5現在如果他全部要求我們都領關稅像那個越南像印尼這樣全部領那我們會不會崩盤\n921772\t931478\t應該是這樣說啦 其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相大家有來有去譬如說我們的黃小玉大部分都從美國來我們這裡去美國的也有我們的譬如說我們蘭花啦 這裡的花卉 水產品所以本來就是互相在搭的啊 但是當然是臺灣的過程當中一定是大家在那我也要替我們臺灣的農業顧 啊他也相當希望他的農產品來臺灣民關稅的話 那個譬如豬肉 牛肉本來就進來很多啦\n949289\t971161\t那豬肉的話,現在進來的,如果是零關稅,這樣大舉入侵進來到30%的話,我們的豬籠是會崩潰的喔?你們要怎麼補貨,你們有配套嗎?我們特別預算上禮拜通過5000多億,裡面有一部要給農業的,夠不夠?沒有的話它是沒有屋頂的喔,我們是打開屋頂\n972262\t974383\t我們台灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本美國進來是差不多60塊如果在12.5%的關稅拿掉剩下50塊不到\n996983\t1018641\t省一半 那個地板很細那牛肉 阿賴 雞肉 蚵仔 蚵仔我都拖拖所以稻米 稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸比台灣出產的還多那這個我們稻米現在一公斤也是50塊嘛那美國進來的才35塊如果要零關稅的話\n1020168\t1032677\t所以我賺了20幾塊 30塊我們台灣人賺的錢跟賣的錢 日本傢伙要賺的錢賺的錢嘛 對不對坦白說我昨天站在我們台灣人都站不住了今天你站不住啦 站不住要怎麼補貨啦站不住啦 站不住啦 拜託大家支持啦\n1036920\t1046744\t那個萊克多巴胺那個也要堅持一下你們也要國內的萊克多巴胺不使用所以萊克多巴胺不可以在美國進來0.4 0.9這個要有好的配套啦這個很重要很重要很重要謝謝委員謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我請保證部部長請部長財政部次長農業部次長兩位次長來 第一張\n部長 這個問題我上個禮拜醫院協會 區醫院協會都一直來反映\n那你們開會就這樣倉促的決定說醫協中心跟區議院要比照上市公司來管理只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰這個反彈非常大那我有找師長來做協調但是反正有1000個理由說一點被實施8月1號\n那這個是非常嚴重,我是覺得,我常常跟你電話聽說你是在中邪,你是怕今天事情不夠煩,不夠派出力,要跟火上加油,那你的看法怎麼樣?\n跟素仁說明喔其實我想勞務在這一次這個這個處罰罰還的採處罰還的公共性原則的調整上面其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性的要求其實只是針對\n這個財儲他的下限從原本是兩萬元到一百萬現在改成是五萬到一百萬其實我們上限也並沒有動薪資的部分我想是沒問題就是兩萬到 風時的問題對那我現在現在我的意思是說我們其實只是從兩萬提高到五萬喔這花款是吧對我們只把這個花款從兩萬提高到五萬一百五十萬啊沒有沒有我們上限還是一百啊\n上限還是一百萬上限是一百萬只是下限的部分從兩萬拉到五萬那這個我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性的要求只要醫院能夠遵守法規把法規做好這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響啊我跟部長講這個勞基網是霸王條款\n霸王,不是你做母天堂比霸王一向就是醫療院所碰到這個,大家都坐在等公家醫院也有約聘人員,他也是壓力都很大那我跟你剛剛陳昭志委員,一個好幾個委員在講台灣有韌性,台灣能夠發展台灣可以這樣,現在不錯,那是台灣24小時在碰\n所以晶片業者 他們三班坐 另外一班叫做On call所以是四班人在輪 那就是付出很高的代價那些人都是在賣肝啦 賣命啦那他的酬勞250年薪 300年薪 500年薪 應該的那醫療人員 剛剛陳昭書人講的值班 熬夜 現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室\n我去看他結果小兒科的急診你知道看病的那個兒科醫師是幾歲嗎57歲他看著我就站到後腳\n說我做到腹瘦還要看急診還要加上尾巴加上尾巴是練不了的因為孩子大家都很緊張所以我要跟你報告現在醫院是全部人都納入勞基法包括住院醫師也納入勞基法住院醫師值班都有限制工時也限制反而是保護呢現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班看你有要求嗎\n釜山高平均要60歲啦麻醉高 我說現在開桌一開超過八點鐘、十點鐘要很多啦那都麻醉高 都醫生 外科醫生大家在那邊拚拚後\n對這是很嚴肅的問題那個跟文說明我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益我們就是因為重視他們的勞動權益也是因為有很多的醫護人員來跟我們反映\n其實醫院如果違法其實有幾個相關的法規違反的話其實常常只是被罰兩萬元這個違法的成本真的太低了其實這正是很多的醫護人員來跟勞動部反映認為這個財儲過去的財儲不符合比例原則所以我們很怕現在醫學中心跟區醫院因為很多區醫院都是在各個縣市的偏遠地區尤其區醫院都是\n施仲良說東塔醫院啦,我看是碼頭醫院啦或是標桿醫院都沒關係,反正那些都很重要那些都是現在主治醫師級在撐耶那個醫院協會李慧朋他的兒子好像神經外科他兒子半夜要去開刀,這把小孩子丟給他他阿公在過分主治醫師其實現在是適用老計法的84條之一啊\n主治醫師現在 住院醫師那是沒有問題主治醫師沒有公實規範我跟妳講喔 再過去啦 因為說一邊會走走那邊用檢疫 想要檢疫就都一邊所以那邊用檢疫 昨天沒人要開桌沒人要拒收 有人求像日本這樣一個產婦 去洗腳 救護車\n請問施加醫院沒有一間要收台灣如果變成這樣那一頓就停產這個跟委員說明我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動的權益所以我們其實才做這個方面的調整那我們也覺得我們也看到現在醫護人員這個人才流財相關的困境所以我們也才覺得更需要院方把\n法尊給做好 這才有助於流程我們在熬夜 我們在值班我們在run 24小時\n熬夜是很累的,掉頭髮會掉的時候我就會掉,脖子也會掉皮膚會老化,免疫力會下降,那是會破壞的沒有人,我就會繼續動下去女性,我們婦女人員如果是大一班常常上,那連月經週期都會亂的那很嚴重的事啦,台灣的命運是在這,台灣的韌性在這所以這個案要實施\n來我們財政部處長我問你川普說加班費值班費都免稅我覺得他講得很好啊雖然川普常常亂講話但是他講這個非常好\n因為那都是在賣命 整個美國要進步也是這樣這的人為了台灣 不關是服務業 不關是醫療我們公家醫院的醫師 社團法人 財團法人的醫師都是這樣在碰這的人 極重任難的主治醫師他這樣賣命 哪個值班費 現在都要繳稅 而且稅都很重\n我們現在始終兩處長跟部長在推說這些家職班會不管公家醫院 不管私人醫院 不管財政法院都可以給免稅 美國就這樣幹啊我們能不能這樣幹啊不然的話 組織醫師 政策醫師全部跑光了都招來經受 因為經受可以執行業務所得嘛所以你這個事情非常嚴重 如果要修法 我跟\n財政委員會的人說要修法 給他免稅額啦什麼特別扣除 但是那都不太可行就是把夾環會 值班會直接認定你有這個Data嗎\n跟委員報告一下其實我們也了解我們中央健保署其實有在檢討這部分那其實我們財政部非常的積極已經有函詢衛福部在釐清這個延長工作時間的加班時數跟他的支付標準的問題那這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部來演繹\n你把他每個月的那個所得等下除以他的工時然後算出來每個小時那他如果超時的或者是時間外的就讓他免稅能夠報出來 這樣可行這個沒有多少錢嘛不然的話留不住人喔 我跟你講我覺得建議蠻好的這個部分我們來看看我們財政中心可不可以跑一下但是那個工作時數可能醫院才會有所以這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部\n你要積極來做 不然的話就很嚴重 被勞動部再K下去的話我告訴你 兩頭空連陳先生都不想值班了還是有受那個勞基法的一個加班時數規定的一個限制啦所以 對你們是用醫師法所以我們會持續的來跟衛福部那持續跟我們的醫療院所這邊衛福部看看他們有沒有這個我們的一些醫師的一個加班時數的規定\n然後我們來學衛生部一起研究我希望衛生部還有那個石署長跟家政部在那邊積極啦這個公家醫院的意思也是一樣那你如果沒有的話這個社團法院醫院、私人醫院把這個拉高把這個有加值班費免稅我要跟國家賠的多少料料?跟賠的多少我沒辦法\n那是很嚴重的問題 你現在值班的人都五六十歲 六十幾歲值班我們屏東有婦產科醫師 八十五歲 還在控案 還在值班一個八十五歲 一個六十五歲 請問委員 其實我們都去過議院所以這個你們財政部不要說到財政部 說到婦稅層 大家都拖著走 拖著頂角角不 委員我們你現在幾歲是長命性的\n我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性啦但是我們了解醫療院所的我們的醫生的一些他工作的一個特殊性所以我們會來檢討這個合理性你的多久可以討論出來這個我們會看跟衛福部一起合作兩禮拜一個月應該是沒辦法這麼快一個月也不太快\n我們會積極來處理兩個聯席會一直來跟你K我們可能也需要一些Data來研究看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理報告一下 這個衛福部我們有請建保署這位很會心會心還是會心很會心的去做很多的討論很會心的做的討論也很用心的跟\n現在是請醫院協會因為這個科別有它的複雜不同性所以我們用最快的適度所以我想也拜託財政部能夠用最快的適度因為希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度那明年就可以來\n現在他就看一半安全跟那些醫院是救人的單位啦所以我們開刀絕對不會開到一半就停因為他的想法跟你就不一樣啦\n他是算不太年輕 他很年輕他的生活就跟我們不一樣 你們常常說的理想 為了賠人 救人什麼的說那些五四三的 現在都沒在聽 我們那個時代真的是要有這樣站在內地 但是現在不一樣所以 現在都很很很spatical的所以所以這 施主長你趕緊啦一位一位一位\n我們會要求臺灣醫院協會盡快希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來提出來以後就請負稅署能夠財政部能夠做然後我們這邊相關的成績衛護部的高階會議也一直在討論怎麼樣把它落實那最重要的就是財政部這邊我自己都吵死了對不起啊因為部長你這個案對的前往是要執行你往是要執行就對了\n啊你就要看要怎麼\n實行上的那個態度有很多很多嘛你不要在火上加油讓我們這個這個已經很慘了會不會說明我們願意來跟醫院來協助他們相關的法尊的輔導我想這我們都願意做但是我們做這件事情正是我想大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益我們真的是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益到時候醫院就一句話就都吵死了現在在開刀開刀棒已經滿載了\n我們其實針對緊急性的連續手術其實是我們有開了一個這個牢記法的\n相對應的這個彈性其實如果是因為緊急手術他沒有辦法如時間的下班的話其實在這邊是有彈性的所以沒有那個問題其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費這個我們要不給加班費這有助於流財嗎不給加班費難道我們就是應該沒有沒有醫療案者醫療案者的薪資的調整我在這裡也跟你承諾\n衛福給我們的錢 健保提供員的錢我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件 增加薪資這個我們可以承諾 我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區域醫學院協會\n每一張碼放在一起都在改善 市場已經改善 大家都變變變從現在從數據上面 統計上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費 這個我們來努力這個難道不給加班費 勞動部可以放鬆嗎好 來來來 農業部 來來來我還有30秒 30秒就好委員好\n現在很多市街市地的在陳情陳情都是我跟張嘉軒在接我平常都在市地市街市街兩個我們現在榮譽木美國進來的這些產品我們的關稅是多少\n差不多6.5我們的平均關稅是16.6我們去美國是平均5.幾那我們像豬肉進來的關稅是12.5我們給他收12.5現在如果他全部要求我們都領關稅像那個越南像印尼這樣全部領那我們會不會崩盤\n應該是這樣說啦 其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相大家有來有去譬如說我們的黃小玉大部分都從美國來我們這裡去美國的也有我們的譬如說我們蘭花啦 這裡的花卉 水產品所以本來就是互相在搭的啊 但是當然是臺灣的過程當中一定是大家在那我也要替我們臺灣的農業顧 啊他也相當希望他的農產品來臺灣民關稅的話 那個譬如豬肉 牛肉本來就進來很多啦\n那豬肉的話,現在進來的,如果是零關稅,這樣大舉入侵進來到30%的話,我們的豬籠是會崩潰的喔?你們要怎麼補貨,你們有配套嗎?我們特別預算上禮拜通過5000多億,裡面有一部要給農業的,夠不夠?沒有的話它是沒有屋頂的喔,我們是打開屋頂\n我們台灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本美國進來是差不多60塊如果在12.5%的關稅拿掉剩下50塊不到\n省一半 那個地板很細那牛肉 阿賴 雞肉 蚵仔 蚵仔我都拖拖所以稻米 稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸比台灣出產的還多那這個我們稻米現在一公斤也是50塊嘛那美國進來的才35塊如果要零關稅的話\n所以我賺了20幾塊 30塊我們台灣人賺的錢跟賣的錢 日本傢伙要賺的錢賺的錢嘛 對不對坦白說我昨天站在我們台灣人都站不住了今天你站不住啦 站不住要怎麼補貨啦站不住啦 站不住啦 拜託大家支持啦\n那個萊克多巴胺那個也要堅持一下你們也要國內的萊克多巴胺不使用所以萊克多巴胺不可以在美國進來0.4 0.9這個要有好的配套啦這個很重要很重要很重要謝謝委員謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.059 --> 00:13.129\n謝謝主席我請保證部部長請部長財政部次長農業部次長兩位次長來第一張\n\n00:26.768 --> 00:33.714\n部長這個問題我上個禮拜醫院協會區醫院協會都一直來反映\n\n00:34.864 --> 00:58.007\n那你們開會就這樣倉促的決定說醫協中心跟區議院要比照上市公司來管理只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰這個反彈非常大那我有找師長來做協調但是反正有1000個理由說一點被實施8月1號\n\n00:59.366 --> 01:12.315\n那這個是非常嚴重,我是覺得,我常常跟你電話聽說你是在中邪,你是怕今天事情不夠煩,不夠派出力,要跟火上加油,那你的看法怎麼樣?\n\n01:13.911 --> 01:29.644\n跟素仁說明喔其實我想勞務在這一次這個這個處罰罰還的採處罰還的公共性原則的調整上面其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性的要求其實只是針對\n\n01:32.346 --> 01:56.321\n這個財儲他的下限從原本是兩萬元到一百萬現在改成是五萬到一百萬其實我們上限也並沒有動薪資的部分我想是沒問題就是兩萬到風時的問題對那我現在現在我的意思是說我們其實只是從兩萬提高到五萬喔這花款是吧對我們只把這個花款從兩萬提高到五萬一百五十萬啊沒有沒有我們上限還是一百啊\n\n01:57.782 --> 02:18.360\n上限還是一百萬上限是一百萬只是下限的部分從兩萬拉到五萬那這個我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性的要求只要醫院能夠遵守法規把法規做好這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響啊我跟部長講這個勞基網是霸王條款\n\n02:19.488 --> 02:39.718\n霸王,不是你做母天堂比霸王一向就是醫療院所碰到這個,大家都坐在等公家醫院也有約聘人員,他也是壓力都很大那我跟你剛剛陳昭志委員,一個好幾個委員在講台灣有韌性,台灣能夠發展台灣可以這樣,現在不錯,那是台灣24小時在碰\n\n02:43.638 --> 02:58.285\n所以晶片業者他們三班坐另外一班叫做Oncall所以是四班人在輪那就是付出很高的代價那些人都是在賣肝啦賣命啦那他的酬勞250年薪300年薪500年薪應該的那醫療人員剛剛陳昭書人講的值班熬夜現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室\n\n03:12.796 --> 03:21.142\n我去看他結果小兒科的急診你知道看病的那個兒科醫師是幾歲嗎57歲他看著我就站到後腳\n\n03:25.638 --> 03:53.218\n說我做到腹瘦還要看急診還要加上尾巴加上尾巴是練不了的因為孩子大家都很緊張所以我要跟你報告現在醫院是全部人都納入勞基法包括住院醫師也納入勞基法住院醫師值班都有限制工時也限制反而是保護呢現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班看你有要求嗎\n\n03:55.712 --> 03:59.780\n釜山高平均要60歲啦麻醉高我說現在開桌一開超過八點鐘、十點鐘要很多啦那都麻醉高都醫生外科醫生大家在那邊拚拚後\n\n04:10.735 --> 04:25.400\n對這是很嚴肅的問題那個跟文說明我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益我們就是因為重視他們的勞動權益也是因為有很多的醫護人員來跟我們反映\n\n04:26.300 --> 04:53.899\n其實醫院如果違法其實有幾個相關的法規違反的話其實常常只是被罰兩萬元這個違法的成本真的太低了其實這正是很多的醫護人員來跟勞動部反映認為這個財儲過去的財儲不符合比例原則所以我們很怕現在醫學中心跟區醫院因為很多區醫院都是在各個縣市的偏遠地區尤其區醫院都是\n\n04:55.319 --> 05:18.388\n施仲良說東塔醫院啦,我看是碼頭醫院啦或是標桿醫院都沒關係,反正那些都很重要那些都是現在主治醫師級在撐耶那個醫院協會李慧朋他的兒子好像神經外科他兒子半夜要去開刀,這把小孩子丟給他他阿公在過分主治醫師其實現在是適用老計法的84條之一啊\n\n05:19.284 --> 05:25.569\n主治醫師現在住院醫師那是沒有問題主治醫師沒有公實規範我跟妳講喔再過去啦因為說一邊會走走那邊用檢疫想要檢疫就都一邊所以那邊用檢疫昨天沒人要開桌沒人要拒收有人求像日本這樣一個產婦去洗腳救護車\n\n05:45.063 --> 06:11.489\n請問施加醫院沒有一間要收台灣如果變成這樣那一頓就停產這個跟委員說明我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動的權益所以我們其實才做這個方面的調整那我們也覺得我們也看到現在醫護人員這個人才流財相關的困境所以我們也才覺得更需要院方把\n\n06:12.009 --> 06:16.857\n法尊給做好這才有助於流程我們在熬夜我們在值班我們在run24小時\n\n06:18.908 --> 06:39.706\n熬夜是很累的,掉頭髮會掉的時候我就會掉,脖子也會掉皮膚會老化,免疫力會下降,那是會破壞的沒有人,我就會繼續動下去女性,我們婦女人員如果是大一班常常上,那連月經週期都會亂的那很嚴重的事啦,台灣的命運是在這,台灣的韌性在這所以這個案要實施\n\n06:47.032 --> 07:00.402\n來我們財政部處長我問你川普說加班費值班費都免稅我覺得他講得很好啊雖然川普常常亂講話但是他講這個非常好\n\n07:01.403 --> 07:09.989\n因為那都是在賣命整個美國要進步也是這樣這的人為了台灣不關是服務業不關是醫療我們公家醫院的醫師社團法人財團法人的醫師都是這樣在碰這的人極重任難的主治醫師他這樣賣命哪個值班費現在都要繳稅而且稅都很重\n\n07:29.673 --> 07:55.219\n我們現在始終兩處長跟部長在推說這些家職班會不管公家醫院不管私人醫院不管財政法院都可以給免稅美國就這樣幹啊我們能不能這樣幹啊不然的話組織醫師政策醫師全部跑光了都招來經受因為經受可以執行業務所得嘛所以你這個事情非常嚴重如果要修法我跟\n\n07:56.220 --> 08:06.195\n財政委員會的人說要修法給他免稅額啦什麼特別扣除但是那都不太可行就是把夾環會值班會直接認定你有這個Data嗎\n\n08:08.264 --> 08:24.759\n跟委員報告一下其實我們也了解我們中央健保署其實有在檢討這部分那其實我們財政部非常的積極已經有函詢衛福部在釐清這個延長工作時間的加班時數跟他的支付標準的問題那這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部來演繹\n\n08:26.778 --> 08:55.496\n你把他每個月的那個所得等下除以他的工時然後算出來每個小時那他如果超時的或者是時間外的就讓他免稅能夠報出來這樣可行這個沒有多少錢嘛不然的話留不住人喔我跟你講我覺得建議蠻好的這個部分我們來看看我們財政中心可不可以跑一下但是那個工作時數可能醫院才會有所以這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部\n\n08:55.996 --> 09:24.447\n你要積極來做不然的話就很嚴重被勞動部再K下去的話我告訴你兩頭空連陳先生都不想值班了還是有受那個勞基法的一個加班時數規定的一個限制啦所以對你們是用醫師法所以我們會持續的來跟衛福部那持續跟我們的醫療院所這邊衛福部看看他們有沒有這個我們的一些醫師的一個加班時數的規定\n\n09:25.828 --> 09:45.540\n然後我們來學衛生部一起研究我希望衛生部還有那個石署長跟家政部在那邊積極啦這個公家醫院的意思也是一樣那你如果沒有的話這個社團法院醫院、私人醫院把這個拉高把這個有加值班費免稅我要跟國家賠的多少料料?跟賠的多少我沒辦法\n\n09:48.274 --> 09:59.102\n那是很嚴重的問題你現在值班的人都五六十歲六十幾歲值班我們屏東有婦產科醫師八十五歲還在控案還在值班一個八十五歲一個六十五歲請問委員其實我們都去過議院所以這個你們財政部不要說到財政部說到婦稅層大家都拖著走拖著頂角角不委員我們你現在幾歲是長命性的\n\n10:17.996 --> 10:33.950\n我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性啦但是我們了解醫療院所的我們的醫生的一些他工作的一個特殊性所以我們會來檢討這個合理性你的多久可以討論出來這個我們會看跟衛福部一起合作兩禮拜一個月應該是沒辦法這麼快一個月也不太快\n\n10:40.455 --> 10:51.058\n我們會積極來處理兩個聯席會一直來跟你K我們可能也需要一些Data來研究看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理報告一下這個衛福部我們有請建保署這位很會心會心還是會心很會心的去做很多的討論很會心的做的討論也很用心的跟\n\n11:10.124 --> 11:26.475\n現在是請醫院協會因為這個科別有它的複雜不同性所以我們用最快的適度所以我想也拜託財政部能夠用最快的適度因為希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度那明年就可以來\n\n11:39.984 --> 11:51.760\n現在他就看一半安全跟那些醫院是救人的單位啦所以我們開刀絕對不會開到一半就停因為他的想法跟你就不一樣啦\n\n11:53.407 --> 12:06.317\n他是算不太年輕他很年輕他的生活就跟我們不一樣你們常常說的理想為了賠人救人什麼的說那些五四三的現在都沒在聽我們那個時代真的是要有這樣站在內地但是現在不一樣所以現在都很很很spatical的所以所以這施主長你趕緊啦一位一位一位\n\n12:21.956 --> 12:48.906\n我們會要求臺灣醫院協會盡快希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來提出來以後就請負稅署能夠財政部能夠做然後我們這邊相關的成績衛護部的高階會議也一直在討論怎麼樣把它落實那最重要的就是財政部這邊我自己都吵死了對不起啊因為部長你這個案對的前往是要執行你往是要執行就對了\n\n12:50.166 --> 12:50.949\n啊你就要看要怎麼\n\n12:52.862 --> 13:18.520\n實行上的那個態度有很多很多嘛你不要在火上加油讓我們這個這個已經很慘了會不會說明我們願意來跟醫院來協助他們相關的法尊的輔導我想這我們都願意做但是我們做這件事情正是我想大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益我們真的是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益到時候醫院就一句話就都吵死了現在在開刀開刀棒已經滿載了\n\n13:20.982 --> 13:21.843\n我們其實針對緊急性的連續手術其實是我們有開了一個這個牢記法的\n\n13:40.345 --> 14:06.982\n相對應的這個彈性其實如果是因為緊急手術他沒有辦法如時間的下班的話其實在這邊是有彈性的所以沒有那個問題其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費這個我們要不給加班費這有助於流財嗎不給加班費難道我們就是應該沒有沒有醫療案者醫療案者的薪資的調整我在這裡也跟你承諾\n\n14:08.818 --> 14:18.124\n衛福給我們的錢健保提供員的錢我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件增加薪資這個我們可以承諾我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區域醫學院協會\n\n14:19.417 --> 14:28.979\n每一張碼放在一起都在改善市場已經改善大家都變變變從現在從數據上面統計上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費這個我們來努力這個難道不給加班費勞動部可以放鬆嗎好來來來農業部來來來我還有30秒30秒就好委員好\n\n14:47.080 --> 14:55.082\n現在很多市街市地的在陳情陳情都是我跟張嘉軒在接我平常都在市地市街市街兩個我們現在榮譽木美國進來的這些產品我們的關稅是多少\n\n15:03.630 --> 15:12.557\n差不多6.5我們的平均關稅是16.6我們去美國是平均5.幾那我們像豬肉進來的關稅是12.5我們給他收12.5現在如果他全部要求我們都領關稅像那個越南像印尼這樣全部領那我們會不會崩盤\n\n15:21.772 --> 15:31.478\n應該是這樣說啦其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相大家有來有去譬如說我們的黃小玉大部分都從美國來我們這裡去美國的也有我們的譬如說我們蘭花啦這裡的花卉水產品所以本來就是互相在搭的啊但是當然是臺灣的過程當中一定是大家在那我也要替我們臺灣的農業顧啊他也相當希望他的農產品來臺灣民關稅的話那個譬如豬肉牛肉本來就進來很多啦\n\n15:49.289 --> 16:11.161\n那豬肉的話,現在進來的,如果是零關稅,這樣大舉入侵進來到30%的話,我們的豬籠是會崩潰的喔?你們要怎麼補貨,你們有配套嗎?我們特別預算上禮拜通過5000多億,裡面有一部要給農業的,夠不夠?沒有的話它是沒有屋頂的喔,我們是打開屋頂\n\n16:12.262 --> 16:14.383\n我們台灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本美國進來是差不多60塊如果在12.5%的關稅拿掉剩下50塊不到\n\n16:36.983 --> 16:58.641\n省一半那個地板很細那牛肉阿賴雞肉蚵仔蚵仔我都拖拖所以稻米稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸比台灣出產的還多那這個我們稻米現在一公斤也是50塊嘛那美國進來的才35塊如果要零關稅的話\n\n17:00.168 --> 17:12.677\n所以我賺了20幾塊30塊我們台灣人賺的錢跟賣的錢日本傢伙要賺的錢賺的錢嘛對不對坦白說我昨天站在我們台灣人都站不住了今天你站不住啦站不住要怎麼補貨啦站不住啦站不住啦拜託大家支持啦\n\n17:16.920 --> 17:26.744\n那個萊克多巴胺那個也要堅持一下你們也要國內的萊克多巴胺不使用所以萊克多巴胺不可以在美國進來0.40.9這個要有好的配套啦這個很重要很重要很重要謝謝委員謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.059,"end":13.129,"text":"謝謝主席我請保證部部長請部長財政部次長農業部次長兩位次長來 第一張"},{"start":26.768,"end":33.714,"text":"部長 這個問題我上個禮拜醫院協會 區醫院協會都一直來反映"},{"start":34.864,"end":58.007,"text":"那你們開會就這樣倉促的決定說醫協中心跟區議院要比照上市公司來管理只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰這個反彈非常大那我有找師長來做協調但是反正有1000個理由說一點被實施8月1號"},{"start":59.366,"end":72.315,"text":"那這個是非常嚴重,我是覺得,我常常跟你電話聽說你是在中邪,你是怕今天事情不夠煩,不夠派出力,要跟火上加油,那你的看法怎麼樣?"},{"start":73.911,"end":89.644,"text":"跟素仁說明喔其實我想勞務在這一次這個這個處罰罰還的採處罰還的公共性原則的調整上面其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性的要求其實只是針對"},{"start":92.346,"end":116.321,"text":"這個財儲他的下限從原本是兩萬元到一百萬現在改成是五萬到一百萬其實我們上限也並沒有動薪資的部分我想是沒問題就是兩萬到 風時的問題對那我現在現在我的意思是說我們其實只是從兩萬提高到五萬喔這花款是吧對我們只把這個花款從兩萬提高到五萬一百五十萬啊沒有沒有我們上限還是一百啊"},{"start":117.782,"end":138.36,"text":"上限還是一百萬上限是一百萬只是下限的部分從兩萬拉到五萬那這個我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性的要求只要醫院能夠遵守法規把法規做好這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響啊我跟部長講這個勞基網是霸王條款"},{"start":139.488,"end":159.718,"text":"霸王,不是你做母天堂比霸王一向就是醫療院所碰到這個,大家都坐在等公家醫院也有約聘人員,他也是壓力都很大那我跟你剛剛陳昭志委員,一個好幾個委員在講台灣有韌性,台灣能夠發展台灣可以這樣,現在不錯,那是台灣24小時在碰"},{"start":163.638,"end":178.285,"text":"所以晶片業者 他們三班坐 另外一班叫做On call所以是四班人在輪 那就是付出很高的代價那些人都是在賣肝啦 賣命啦那他的酬勞250年薪 300年薪 500年薪 應該的那醫療人員 剛剛陳昭書人講的值班 熬夜 現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室"},{"start":192.796,"end":201.142,"text":"我去看他結果小兒科的急診你知道看病的那個兒科醫師是幾歲嗎57歲他看著我就站到後腳"},{"start":205.638,"end":233.218,"text":"說我做到腹瘦還要看急診還要加上尾巴加上尾巴是練不了的因為孩子大家都很緊張所以我要跟你報告現在醫院是全部人都納入勞基法包括住院醫師也納入勞基法住院醫師值班都有限制工時也限制反而是保護呢現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班看你有要求嗎"},{"start":235.712,"end":239.78,"text":"釜山高平均要60歲啦麻醉高 我說現在開桌一開超過八點鐘、十點鐘要很多啦那都麻醉高 都醫生 外科醫生大家在那邊拚拚後"},{"start":250.735,"end":265.4,"text":"對這是很嚴肅的問題那個跟文說明我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益我們就是因為重視他們的勞動權益也是因為有很多的醫護人員來跟我們反映"},{"start":266.3,"end":293.899,"text":"其實醫院如果違法其實有幾個相關的法規違反的話其實常常只是被罰兩萬元這個違法的成本真的太低了其實這正是很多的醫護人員來跟勞動部反映認為這個財儲過去的財儲不符合比例原則所以我們很怕現在醫學中心跟區醫院因為很多區醫院都是在各個縣市的偏遠地區尤其區醫院都是"},{"start":295.319,"end":318.388,"text":"施仲良說東塔醫院啦,我看是碼頭醫院啦或是標桿醫院都沒關係,反正那些都很重要那些都是現在主治醫師級在撐耶那個醫院協會李慧朋他的兒子好像神經外科他兒子半夜要去開刀,這把小孩子丟給他他阿公在過分主治醫師其實現在是適用老計法的84條之一啊"},{"start":319.284,"end":325.569,"text":"主治醫師現在 住院醫師那是沒有問題主治醫師沒有公實規範我跟妳講喔 再過去啦 因為說一邊會走走那邊用檢疫 想要檢疫就都一邊所以那邊用檢疫 昨天沒人要開桌沒人要拒收 有人求像日本這樣一個產婦 去洗腳 救護車"},{"start":345.063,"end":371.489,"text":"請問施加醫院沒有一間要收台灣如果變成這樣那一頓就停產這個跟委員說明我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動的權益所以我們其實才做這個方面的調整那我們也覺得我們也看到現在醫護人員這個人才流財相關的困境所以我們也才覺得更需要院方把"},{"start":372.009,"end":376.857,"text":"法尊給做好 這才有助於流程我們在熬夜 我們在值班我們在run 24小時"},{"start":378.908,"end":399.706,"text":"熬夜是很累的,掉頭髮會掉的時候我就會掉,脖子也會掉皮膚會老化,免疫力會下降,那是會破壞的沒有人,我就會繼續動下去女性,我們婦女人員如果是大一班常常上,那連月經週期都會亂的那很嚴重的事啦,台灣的命運是在這,台灣的韌性在這所以這個案要實施"},{"start":407.032,"end":420.402,"text":"來我們財政部處長我問你川普說加班費值班費都免稅我覺得他講得很好啊雖然川普常常亂講話但是他講這個非常好"},{"start":421.403,"end":429.989,"text":"因為那都是在賣命 整個美國要進步也是這樣這的人為了台灣 不關是服務業 不關是醫療我們公家醫院的醫師 社團法人 財團法人的醫師都是這樣在碰這的人 極重任難的主治醫師他這樣賣命 哪個值班費 現在都要繳稅 而且稅都很重"},{"start":449.673,"end":475.219,"text":"我們現在始終兩處長跟部長在推說這些家職班會不管公家醫院 不管私人醫院 不管財政法院都可以給免稅 美國就這樣幹啊我們能不能這樣幹啊不然的話 組織醫師 政策醫師全部跑光了都招來經受 因為經受可以執行業務所得嘛所以你這個事情非常嚴重 如果要修法 我跟"},{"start":476.22,"end":486.195,"text":"財政委員會的人說要修法 給他免稅額啦什麼特別扣除 但是那都不太可行就是把夾環會 值班會直接認定你有這個Data嗎"},{"start":488.264,"end":504.759,"text":"跟委員報告一下其實我們也了解我們中央健保署其實有在檢討這部分那其實我們財政部非常的積極已經有函詢衛福部在釐清這個延長工作時間的加班時數跟他的支付標準的問題那這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部來演繹"},{"start":506.778,"end":535.496,"text":"你把他每個月的那個所得等下除以他的工時然後算出來每個小時那他如果超時的或者是時間外的就讓他免稅能夠報出來 這樣可行這個沒有多少錢嘛不然的話留不住人喔 我跟你講我覺得建議蠻好的這個部分我們來看看我們財政中心可不可以跑一下但是那個工作時數可能醫院才會有所以這個部分我們會持續的來跟衛福部"},{"start":535.996,"end":564.447,"text":"你要積極來做 不然的話就很嚴重 被勞動部再K下去的話我告訴你 兩頭空連陳先生都不想值班了還是有受那個勞基法的一個加班時數規定的一個限制啦所以 對你們是用醫師法所以我們會持續的來跟衛福部那持續跟我們的醫療院所這邊衛福部看看他們有沒有這個我們的一些醫師的一個加班時數的規定"},{"start":565.828,"end":585.54,"text":"然後我們來學衛生部一起研究我希望衛生部還有那個石署長跟家政部在那邊積極啦這個公家醫院的意思也是一樣那你如果沒有的話這個社團法院醫院、私人醫院把這個拉高把這個有加值班費免稅我要跟國家賠的多少料料?跟賠的多少我沒辦法"},{"start":588.274,"end":599.102,"text":"那是很嚴重的問題 你現在值班的人都五六十歲 六十幾歲值班我們屏東有婦產科醫師 八十五歲 還在控案 還在值班一個八十五歲 一個六十五歲 請問委員 其實我們都去過議院所以這個你們財政部不要說到財政部 說到婦稅層 大家都拖著走 拖著頂角角不 委員我們你現在幾歲是長命性的"},{"start":617.996,"end":633.95,"text":"我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性啦但是我們了解醫療院所的我們的醫生的一些他工作的一個特殊性所以我們會來檢討這個合理性你的多久可以討論出來這個我們會看跟衛福部一起合作兩禮拜一個月應該是沒辦法這麼快一個月也不太快"},{"start":640.455,"end":651.058,"text":"我們會積極來處理兩個聯席會一直來跟你K我們可能也需要一些Data來研究看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理報告一下 這個衛福部我們有請建保署這位很會心會心還是會心很會心的去做很多的討論很會心的做的討論也很用心的跟"},{"start":670.124,"end":686.475,"text":"現在是請醫院協會因為這個科別有它的複雜不同性所以我們用最快的適度所以我想也拜託財政部能夠用最快的適度因為希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度那明年就可以來"},{"start":699.984,"end":711.76,"text":"現在他就看一半安全跟那些醫院是救人的單位啦所以我們開刀絕對不會開到一半就停因為他的想法跟你就不一樣啦"},{"start":713.407,"end":726.317,"text":"他是算不太年輕 他很年輕他的生活就跟我們不一樣 你們常常說的理想 為了賠人 救人什麼的說那些五四三的 現在都沒在聽 我們那個時代真的是要有這樣站在內地 但是現在不一樣所以 現在都很很很spatical的所以所以這 施主長你趕緊啦一位一位一位"},{"start":741.956,"end":768.906,"text":"我們會要求臺灣醫院協會盡快希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來提出來以後就請負稅署能夠財政部能夠做然後我們這邊相關的成績衛護部的高階會議也一直在討論怎麼樣把它落實那最重要的就是財政部這邊我自己都吵死了對不起啊因為部長你這個案對的前往是要執行你往是要執行就對了"},{"start":770.166,"end":770.949,"text":"啊你就要看要怎麼"},{"start":772.862,"end":798.52,"text":"實行上的那個態度有很多很多嘛你不要在火上加油讓我們這個這個已經很慘了會不會說明我們願意來跟醫院來協助他們相關的法尊的輔導我想這我們都願意做但是我們做這件事情正是我想大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益我們真的是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益到時候醫院就一句話就都吵死了現在在開刀開刀棒已經滿載了"},{"start":800.982,"end":801.843,"text":"我們其實針對緊急性的連續手術其實是我們有開了一個這個牢記法的"},{"start":820.345,"end":846.982,"text":"相對應的這個彈性其實如果是因為緊急手術他沒有辦法如時間的下班的話其實在這邊是有彈性的所以沒有那個問題其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費這個我們要不給加班費這有助於流財嗎不給加班費難道我們就是應該沒有沒有醫療案者醫療案者的薪資的調整我在這裡也跟你承諾"},{"start":848.818,"end":858.124,"text":"衛福給我們的錢 健保提供員的錢我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件 增加薪資這個我們可以承諾 我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區域醫學院協會"},{"start":859.417,"end":868.979,"text":"每一張碼放在一起都在改善 市場已經改善 大家都變變變從現在從數據上面 統計上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費 這個我們來努力這個難道不給加班費 勞動部可以放鬆嗎好 來來來 農業部 來來來我還有30秒 30秒就好委員好"},{"start":887.08,"end":895.082,"text":"現在很多市街市地的在陳情陳情都是我跟張嘉軒在接我平常都在市地市街市街兩個我們現在榮譽木美國進來的這些產品我們的關稅是多少"},{"start":903.63,"end":912.557,"text":"差不多6.5我們的平均關稅是16.6我們去美國是平均5.幾那我們像豬肉進來的關稅是12.5我們給他收12.5現在如果他全部要求我們都領關稅像那個越南像印尼這樣全部領那我們會不會崩盤"},{"start":921.772,"end":931.478,"text":"應該是這樣說啦 其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相大家有來有去譬如說我們的黃小玉大部分都從美國來我們這裡去美國的也有我們的譬如說我們蘭花啦 這裡的花卉 水產品所以本來就是互相在搭的啊 但是當然是臺灣的過程當中一定是大家在那我也要替我們臺灣的農業顧 啊他也相當希望他的農產品來臺灣民關稅的話 那個譬如豬肉 牛肉本來就進來很多啦"},{"start":949.289,"end":971.161,"text":"那豬肉的話,現在進來的,如果是零關稅,這樣大舉入侵進來到30%的話,我們的豬籠是會崩潰的喔?你們要怎麼補貨,你們有配套嗎?我們特別預算上禮拜通過5000多億,裡面有一部要給農業的,夠不夠?沒有的話它是沒有屋頂的喔,我們是打開屋頂"},{"start":972.262,"end":974.383,"text":"我們台灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本美國進來是差不多60塊如果在12.5%的關稅拿掉剩下50塊不到"},{"start":996.983,"end":1018.641,"text":"省一半 那個地板很細那牛肉 阿賴 雞肉 蚵仔 蚵仔我都拖拖所以稻米 稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸比台灣出產的還多那這個我們稻米現在一公斤也是50塊嘛那美國進來的才35塊如果要零關稅的話"},{"start":1020.168,"end":1032.677,"text":"所以我賺了20幾塊 30塊我們台灣人賺的錢跟賣的錢 日本傢伙要賺的錢賺的錢嘛 對不對坦白說我昨天站在我們台灣人都站不住了今天你站不住啦 站不住要怎麼補貨啦站不住啦 站不住啦 拜託大家支持啦"},{"start":1036.92,"end":1046.744,"text":"那個萊克多巴胺那個也要堅持一下你們也要國內的萊克多巴胺不使用所以萊克多巴胺不可以在美國進來0.4 0.9這個要有好的配套啦這個很重要很重要很重要謝謝委員謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":426,"blocks":[["蘇委員清泉：（9時56分）謝謝主席。我請勞動部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["蘇委員清泉：財政部次長、農業部次長。"],["主席：兩位次長。"],["洪部長申翰：蘇委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，這個問題上個禮拜醫院協會、區域醫院協會都一直來反映，你們開會就這樣倉促決定醫學中心跟區域醫院要比照上市公司管理，只要違反勞基法就要加重處罰，這個造成的反彈非常大，我有找司長來協調，但是就有一千個理由說8月1號一定要實施，這個非常嚴重。昨天我在電話中跟你說你是「著猴」喔？你是怕事情不夠煩、不夠難處理，要再火上加油？你的看法怎麼樣？"],["洪部長申翰：跟蘇委員說明，勞動部在這一次裁處罰鍰共通性原則的調整上面，其實我們並沒有增加對醫院更多的管制性要求，只是針對裁處下限從原本的2萬元到100萬，現在改成5萬到100萬，我們上限也並沒有動。"],["蘇委員清泉：薪資的部分，我想是沒問題，但是是工時的問題。"],["洪部長申翰：對，現在我的意思是其實我們只是從2萬提高到5萬。"],["蘇委員清泉：就是罰款？"],["洪部長申翰：對，我們只是把罰款從2萬提高到5萬……"],["蘇委員清泉：上限還提高到150萬啊！"],["洪部長申翰：沒有、沒有，上限還是100萬。"],["蘇委員清泉：大家嚇都嚇死了。"],["洪部長申翰：上限還是100萬，上限是100萬，只是下限的部分從2萬拉到5萬。我要強調的是我們並沒有提出更多的管制性要求，只要醫院能夠遵守法規，把法遵做好，這個調整其實對醫院來說並沒有影響。"],["蘇委員清泉：我跟部長講，勞基法是霸王條款，不是你當部長才變霸王的，一向就是醫療院所碰到這個，大家都「剉咧等」，公家醫院也有約聘人員，它也是壓力都很大。剛剛包括陳昭姿委員，有好幾個委員都在講，臺灣有韌性，臺灣能夠發展，臺灣現在可以這樣不錯，那是臺灣24小時在打拚，晶片業者是三班制，另外一班叫做on call，所以是四班人在輪，那是要付出很高的代價，那些人都是在賣肝、賣命，他們的酬勞年薪250萬、年薪300萬、年薪500萬，應該的！至於醫療人員，剛剛陳昭姿委員講了，值班、熬夜，現在我去某一個醫學中心的急診室看，結果小兒科的急診，你知道看病的兒科醫師是幾歲嗎？57歲！他看到我就站起來罵我，他說自己做到副教授還在看急診，還要被家屬罵，但被家屬罵是免不了，因為孩子生病，大家都很緊張！","所以我要跟你報告，現在是醫院全部的人都納入勞基法，包括住院醫師也納入勞基法，住院醫師值班都有限制，工時也限制，反而是保護，現在醫院的主力是主治醫師在值班，你看有沒有「夭壽」！婦產科醫生平均快60歲了，我跟你說，現在開刀一開超過8小時、10小時的很多，那都需要麻醉科醫生、外科醫生，大家在那邊拚，拚一拚之後……這是很嚴肅的問題。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們其實正是要來保護醫療人員跟醫護人員的勞動權益，就是因為重視他們的勞動權益，也是因為有很多醫護人員來跟我們反映，醫院如果有幾個相關法規違反的話，常常只是被罰2萬元，違法的成本真的太低了！也正是很多醫護人員來跟勞動部反映，認為過去的裁處不符合比例原則，所以才希望我們把它提高。"],["蘇委員清泉：我很怕現在醫學中心跟區域醫院……因為很多區域醫院都是在各個縣市的偏遠地區，尤其區域醫院，就像石崇良說的是燈塔醫院，我看是像碼頭醫院，還是標竿醫院，但都沒關係，反正它們就是很重要，而那些都是主治醫師級的在撐，醫院協會李飛鵬的兒子好像是神經外科的醫師，他兒子半夜要去開刀，就把小孩子丟給他，就是阿公在照顧孫子。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，主治醫師現在是適用勞基法第八十四條之一。"],["黃司長綺雅：是住院醫師。"],["洪部長申翰：住院醫師。"],["蘇委員清泉：住院醫師是沒有問題。住院醫師現在每一個都是寶。"],["洪部長申翰：主治醫師沒有工時規範，對不起！主治醫師沒有工時規範。"],["蘇委員清泉：我跟你講，因為醫院會怕，怕被檢舉，最會檢舉的都在醫院裡面。"],["洪部長申翰：對，所以……"],["蘇委員清泉：所以如果被檢舉了，就沒有人要開刀，那就會拒收，就會有人球，像日本一個產婦要去生小孩，救護車詢問了7家醫院，沒有一家要收，臺灣如果變成這樣，那個時候就很慘了。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們其實正是很關注醫護人員的勞動權益，所以我們才做這方面的調整，我們也看到現在醫護人員人才留才相關的困境，所以我們才覺得更需要院方把法遵做好，這才有助於……"],["蘇委員清泉：我們在熬夜、我們在值班、我們在run 24小時，熬夜是很累的，是會掉頭髮的，像我就在掉頭髮了，部長也在掉了，還有皮膚會老化、免疫力會下降，那是會生病的！沒人有辦法繼續撐下去，我們的女性護理人員如果常常上大夜班，連月經週期都會亂掉，這是很嚴重的事情，臺灣的命脈是在這裡、臺灣的韌性在這裡，所以你這個案子要實施……","來，財政部次長，我問你，川普說加班費、值班費都免稅，我覺得他講得很好啊！雖然川普常常亂講話，但是他講這個非常好，因為那都是在賣命，整個美國要進步也是這樣啊！而這些人為了臺灣，不管是服務業、不管是醫療，我們公家醫院的醫師、財團法人的醫師都是這樣在運行，急重症主治醫師這樣賣命，拿個值班費現在都要繳稅，而且稅都很重，現在石崇良署長跟部長在推這些加值班費，不管公家醫院、不管私人醫院、不管財團法人醫院，都可以讓他們免稅，美國就這樣幹啊！我們能不能這樣幹？不然的話，主治醫師、重症醫師全部跑光了，都跑去診所，因為診所可以用執行業務所得，所以這個事情非常嚴重，如果要修法，我跟財政委員會的人說要修法給他們免稅額、特別扣除額，但真的都不太可行，所以就是把加班費、值班費直接認定，你有這方面的data嗎？"],["謝次長鈴媛：跟委員報告，其實我們也了解，中央健保署也有在檢討這部分，我們財政部非常積極，已經有函詢衛福部在釐清延長工作時間的加班時數和支付標準的問題，這個部分我們會持續跟衛福部研議。"],["蘇委員清泉：你把每個月的所得除以他的工時，然後算出來每個小時，如果有超時的或者是時間外的，就讓他免稅，能夠讓其報出來，這樣可行，這沒有多少錢嘛！不然的話留不住人啊！"],["謝次長鈴媛：委員建議滿好的，這個部分我們來看看財資中心可不可以跑一下，但是工作時數可能醫院才會有，所以這個部分我們會持續地跟衛福部……"],["蘇委員清泉：你要積極來做，不然真的很嚴重，然後又被勞動部再K下去的話，我跟你說，兩頭空！連陳菁徽都不想值班了。"],["謝次長鈴媛：不過這個部分還是有受勞基法加班時數規定的限制……你們適用醫事法，好，所以我們會持續地跟衛福部看看醫療院所有沒有醫師加班時數的規定，然後跟衛福部一起研究。"],["蘇委員清泉：我希望衛福部還有石署長跟財政部一起積極啦，公家醫院的醫師也是一樣，如果沒有的話，而社團法人醫院、私人醫院把加值班費免稅，我跟你講公家醫院醫護人員跑光光，全醫院人員跑掉沒半個，這是很嚴重的問題，現在值班的人都5、60歲，六十幾歲在值班，我們屏東有婦產科醫師85歲還在看患者、還在值班，一個85歲、一個65歲，請問是要叫他們去死嗎？"],["謝次長鈴媛：委員，我們都去過醫院……"],["蘇委員清泉：大家都在救人，所以財政部不要……說到財政部、說到賦稅署，大家都頭痛，都說你們頭殼硬邦邦。"],["謝次長鈴媛：不過委員，我們的確在租稅上是中立性的啦！"],["蘇委員清泉：你們真的很過分！"],["謝次長鈴媛：我們還是必須考慮租稅的中立性跟公平性，但是我們了解醫療院所醫生工作的特殊性，所以我們會來檢討這個合理性。"],["蘇委員清泉：你們多久可以討論出來？"],["謝次長鈴媛：我們會跟衛福部一起合作。"],["蘇委員清泉：兩個禮拜？一個月？"],["謝次長鈴媛：應該是沒辦法這麼快，一個月也沒辦法這麼快，我們會積極處理。"],["蘇委員清泉：一個月有初步的結論，而我還是會一直排，兩個聯席會一直K你們。"],["謝次長鈴媛：我們可能也需要一些data來研究，看怎麼樣的加班時數比較合理。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，你來支持一下，不然真的很慘。"],["邱部長泰源：我報告一下，衛福部也請健保署很費心……"],["蘇委員清泉：灰心還是費心？"],["邱部長泰源：很費心地做很多的討論。"],["蘇委員清泉：喔！我嚇一跳。"],["邱部長泰源：很費心做了討論，也很用心地請醫院協會，因為科別有它的複雜性，所以我們會用最快的速度，所以也拜託財政部能夠用最快的速度，希望在今年能夠完成這樣的一個制度，明年就可以來實行，這樣才能夠……"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有，我跟你說現在大家都待不住，現在年輕醫生跟我們以前想法不一樣，我們那個時候是為了病人、理想，說了一大堆，現在他們不聽你講這些，他們就看眼前，跟那些做很久……"],["邱部長泰源：我想醫院是救人的單位，所以醫生開刀絕對不會開到一半就停。"],["蘇委員清泉：你問陳菁徽，他的想法跟你我就不一樣啦！他算是半個年輕人。"],["邱部長泰源：沒有，他很年輕。"],["蘇委員清泉：他的想法就跟我們不一樣，你不要常常說這是理想、這是為了病人、救人，說那些「五四三」，現在他們都沒在聽，我們那個時代真的是「儉腸凹肚」，但是現在不一樣，他們都很practical，所以石署長儘快啦！一個月可以嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：我們會要求臺灣醫院協會儘快，希望在幾天之內就能夠提出來，提出來以後請財政部賦稅署能夠做研析，我們這一邊相關層級、衛福部的高階會議也一直來討論怎麼樣把它落實，最重要的是財政部這邊。"],["蘇委員清泉：好，再給我一分鐘，我自己都超時，對不起啦！","部長，你這個案子8月1日硬要執行，你硬要執行就對了啦！你就要看怎麼樣……在執行上，態度有很多嘛，你不要再火上加油，我們這個已經很慘了。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們願意協助醫院進行相關法遵的輔導，我們都願意做，但是我們做這件事情，即大家都很在意醫護人員的勞動權益，我們正是因為重視醫護人員的勞動權益……"],["蘇委員清泉：不是，我很怕到時候醫院就一句話，都超時啊！若要開刀，開刀房已經滿載了，叫你把患者推出去，然後救護車就一直載，從恆春載去東港、東港載去高雄，就這樣一直載，這樣子就悽慘了。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們其實針對緊急的手術……"],["蘇委員清泉：我就開記者會K你了。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，如果針對緊急性的連續手術，勞基法裡面有相對應的彈性，其實如果是因為緊急手術，導致他沒有辦法如時下班的話，在勞基法是有彈性的，所以不會有那個問題，其實我們現在看到最多違反的問題就是不給加班費，不給加班費有助於留才嗎？不給加班費，我們就是應該更大力地要求醫院要法遵啊！"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有！醫療院所薪資的調整，我在這裡也跟你承諾，衛福部給我們的錢、健保署給我們的錢，我們大部分都用在改善勞動條件、增加薪資，這個我們可以承諾，我們也可以責成醫院協會跟區域醫院協會，醫院這陣子拿到的錢都在做改善，實際上已經改善很多，大家都拚命在改善，你不要用這種例子來抹黑。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我們現在從統計數據上面看到最多的就是沒有如實給加班費。"],["蘇委員清泉：部長，這個我們來努力。"],["洪部長申翰：難道不給加班費，勞動部可以放鬆嗎？"],["蘇委員清泉：好，農業部，再給我30秒就好。"],["杜次長文珍：委員好。"],["蘇委員清泉：現在很多養雞的、養豬的在陳情，都是我跟張嘉群在接，我們屏東都是一些養豬、養雞、養雞蛋的。現在的農漁牧，從美國進來的這些產品，我們的關稅是多少？差不多6.5%？"],["杜次長文珍：我們的平均關稅是16.6%，我們去美國的平均是百分之五點幾。"],["蘇委員清泉：譬如說豬肉進來的關稅是12.5%，我們給他收12.5%，現在如果他全部要求我們都零關稅，像越南、像印尼這樣全部零關稅，那我們會不會崩盤？"],["杜次長文珍：應該是這樣說，其實美國跟我們的農產品貿易本來就是互相，大家有來有去，比如我們的「黃小玉」大部分都從美國來，我們去美國的也有比如說蘭花等花卉、水產品，所以本來就是互相，這是第一個；第二個，當然談判過程當中一定是大家在……我也要顧著我們臺灣的農業，他也相當希望他的農產品能來臺灣，所以……"],["蘇委員清泉：零關稅的話，因為牛肉本來就進來很多；豬肉的話，如果是零關稅，這樣大舉入侵，進來比例到30%的話，我們的豬農是會崩盤的喔！你們要怎麼保護？你們有沒有配套？我們特別預算上禮拜通過五千多億，裡面有一部分要給農業的，夠不夠？沒有的話，它是沒有屋頂的，我們是打開屋頂……"],["杜次長文珍：感謝委員支持臺灣的農業啦！當然，我們是面對全世界的貿易，我們農業自己要站得住、站得好，不只是保護自己的農業，我們的農業也要出口，所以感謝這些特別條例……"],["蘇委員清泉：我跟大家報告，臺灣的豬肉一公斤是95塊成本，美國進來差不多是60塊。"],["杜次長文珍：對，差不多60塊。"],["蘇委員清泉：如果再把進來12.5%的關稅拿掉，剩下50塊不到，剩一半，我們的豬肉就崩盤；再來牛肉還有雞肉、鵝肉都會很慘；稻米現在美國每年出口320萬噸，比臺灣出產的還多，我們現在稻米一公斤也是50塊，美國進來的差不多35塊，如果零關稅的話，差不多變成二十幾塊、30塊，我們臺灣的稻米保得住嗎？日本硬要擋的就是要擋稻米，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：談判當中我們絕對站在臺灣農業的立場……"],["蘇委員清泉：我是怕你們站不住啦！站不住腳是要怎麼保護……"],["杜次長文珍：站不住腳也要站住腳，感謝委員對我們的支持……"],["蘇委員清泉：跟食藥署一樣都站不住腳啦，對不對？"],["杜次長文珍：拜託大家支持。"],["蘇委員清泉：萊克多巴胺也要堅持一下，你們也要……"],["杜次長文珍：國內萊克多巴胺不使用，所以如果有臺灣豬標章，我們絕對……"],["蘇委員清泉：沒有，國內萊克多巴胺不使用，現在美國進來的0.4、0.9……"],["杜次長文珍：所以我們要promote臺灣豬肉的好。"],["蘇委員清泉：要有好的配套，這個很重要、很重要。"],["杜次長文珍：是，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。接下來我們請涂權吉委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":398,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-21","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","陳菁徽","王育敏","涂權吉","賴惠員","邱鎮軍","林淑芬","陳冠廷","劉建國","黃秀芳","林月琴","許宇甄","徐欣瑩","王正旭","陳瑩","陳永康","楊曜","廖偉翔","盧縣一"],"page_start":325,"meetingDate":["2025-07-17"],"gazette_id":"1146701","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146701_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第21次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部部長、勞動部部長、財政部部長、農業部針對「因應嚴重災情、緊急重大事件，\n醫療院所承擔救護量能困境及因應台美關稅談判對台灣食品安全相關影響」進行專題報告，並備\n質詢","agenda_id":"1146701_00006"}}}