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1081.019, \"end\": 1081.239, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 1081.239, \"end\": 1081.499, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"著\", \"start\": 1081.499, \"end\": 1082.159, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 1082.159, \"end\": 1082.4, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 1082.4, \"end\": 1082.62, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 1082.62, \"end\": 1083.2, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"爭\"}, {\"word\": \"取\", \"start\": 1083.2, \"end\": 1083.481, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1083.481, \"end\": 1083.521, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 1083.521, \"end\": 1083.601, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1083.601, \"end\": 1083.621, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1083.621, \"end\": 1083.721, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"辛\", \"start\": 1083.721, \"end\": 1083.741, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 1083.741, \"end\": 1083.841, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 1083.841, \"end\": 1083.881, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1083.881, \"end\": 1083.901, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,881 --> 00:00:08,706\n謝謝主席我想請陳部長陳部長這個是誰的\n\n2\n00:00:15,799 --> 00:00:31,052\n部長辛苦了我想這次丹納斯颱風我也看到你南北奔波全台勘栽的確是辛苦了那本席來自農業大縣那我想責無旁貸一定要為我們的農民發聲那我想要先請教部長我想也請部長好好回答這個問題農業部啟動全品項免限勘的補助標準到底是什麼\n\n3\n00:00:42,558 --> 00:01:03,890\n除了農業損失超過千分之五農業損失超過千分之五跟振豐達十級以上有沒有任何沒有明說的隱形標準呢我可不可以報告第一個您剛才說的千分之五這個的規定已經在今年的三四月間修正過了所以已經沒有這個標準了\n\n4\n00:01:04,650 --> 00:01:21,699\n那請問標準是什麼?可以告訴我嗎?全體下免限刊的補助標準是什麼?我先回答您剛才講的就是千分之五的部分現在已經在天然災害救助規則裡面已經修掉了已經沒有這個依據了第二個部分是時機陣風就免限刊也沒有這個規定\n\n5\n00:01:22,699 --> 00:01:42,251\n那所以現在呢?現在的標準是什麼?現在我們分兩個部分喔免限刊的部分喔如果說根據我們的天然災害的天氣參數裡面不是每個品項喔我們因為它必須陸陸續續的公告那你先告訴我全品項的標準是什麼?\n\n6\n00:01:42,771 --> 00:02:00,100\n全品項的部分是第一個我們判斷他整個颱風進來的時候他如果對於他的那個區域那個區域可能是一個鄉鎮可能是一個縣如果具有普遍性的受戰的時候所以你現在是在告訴我說你是沒有任何數據依據我們是透過專家會議\n\n7\n00:02:03,862 --> 00:02:26,108\n透過專家會議可以去做這樣的一個處理所以是沒有任何現在目前全品項免限刊你再告訴我是沒有任何有數據的依據嗎我跟委員報告全品項跟免限刊是兩件事情我們要先公告公告的時候我們可以用一個品項一個品項公告\n\n8\n00:02:26,408 --> 00:02:39,507\n我當然知道等一下我要問你一個一個品項但是我現在就問你怎麼樣啟動因為過去是有農業損失超過千分之五然後振豐打十級以上的這個條件那\n\n9\n00:02:42,271 --> 00:02:50,637\n雲林縣這一次其實是符合公告損失千分之五的雲林縣農業產值430億千分之五是兩億一千萬目前農損已經超過4.5億遠超標準\n\n10\n00:02:58,903 --> 00:03:22,819\n而且如果假設是氣候參數陣風達10級以上雲林縣20個鄉鎮有17個鄉鎮是達到陣風10級以上甚至沿海的鄉鎮還有超過17級陣風的結果這樣子你告訴我說沒有達標全品項沒有免限刊也沒有到底是為什麼呢你可以告訴我原因嗎我剛才已經跟委員\n\n11\n00:03:23,780 --> 00:03:44,555\n很明確的講就是說千分之五這個標準已經取消了那是三月取消的為什麼原因取消的呢因為用整個產業你用什麼取代這個東西呢還是你現在就打算沒有標準就是你部長一個人說了就算了絕對不是我部長一個人說了就算了\n\n12\n00:03:44,855 --> 00:03:58,387\n專家會議的組成是怎麼組成的專家會議的組成是我們所有的試驗改良場所在第一線勘栽的包括我們的農林漁畜的分屬的部分所以人數是多少然後組成是多少\n\n13\n00:04:00,219 --> 00:04:10,670\n我們人數是依照我們的我們要去檢討的這個品項如果今天是農糧類的就是農糧署還有農糧署的分數所以你覺得專家會議會不會恍不濟急呢會不會說颱風來了你還要把這些人都叫進來然後在那邊開會這是符合我們救災程序的嗎\n\n14\n00:04:20,641 --> 00:04:39,181\n我告訴你我要跟委員報告現在的就在程序就是有地方政府提報以後做四方限刊我知道這些你不用再跟我說我不清楚嗎所以我現在是在問你全體像免限刊到底標準是什麼假設你說三四月已經取消了農業產值的標準那你的心\n\n15\n00:04:41,563 --> 00:04:47,868\n標準是什麼可以告訴我嗎我們針對全品項如果要公告的時候我們的所有的試驗感染場所包括我們分組的同仁會在整個災區去看一遍所以你也不確定專家會議的人數是多少是嗎他會根據你要討論的議題所以你這個是你有一個很明確的規範嗎有嗎有可以提供我們委員會所有的委員參考嗎因為不只是我我相信包括\n\n16\n00:05:08,525 --> 00:05:22,137\n參議委委員包括陳廷輝委員還有包括謝依鳳主席他們都會需要有一個這樣子的指引讓我們很清楚知道說哪一個項目哪一個品項是哪一些委員會跟我們做這個專家會議而且專家會議到底要開多久我舉一個例好了我舉一個例\n\n17\n00:05:31,245 --> 00:05:49,457\n這一次呢其實我真是希望救災是要不分藍綠的面對颱風來襲我們所有的農民他不只是生存受到威脅他的他的這些農產品是已經就是血本無歸了結果讓農民感受到差別待遇這就是二度傷害部長\n\n18\n00:05:50,538 --> 00:06:08,422\n我們雲林縣的農業損失農作物損失不包括漁業好了我先把漁業排除是全國第二遠高於嘉義結果在7月7號農業部就公告說嘉義台南全品項補助雲林沒有\n\n19\n00:06:10,763 --> 00:06:38,602\n然後一直到7月18號下午4點為止雲林縣的農業損失已經高達4億3666萬僅次於台南是全國第二到目前為止我們還沒有被公告全品項免限刊到底是什麼樣子的依據你覺得嘉義可以嘉義損失比我們少他可以全品項免限刊我們雲林縣不可以你告訴我原因可以嗎\n\n20\n00:06:39,363 --> 00:06:49,578\n第一個部分颱風從嘉義進來那個時候因為這次颱風最主要是風量的關係所以你的依據是它颱風登陸的位置是嗎\n\n21\n00:06:50,888 --> 00:07:06,297\n我們考量的是一個非常多的一個專業的考量第一個是台風的附近所帶來的風速那那個風速本身在嘉義台南地區它有普遍性的造成你剛剛不是跟我說你不參考這個什麼時級陣風嗎沒有我說時級陣風沒有所謂的時級陣風免限刊這件事情\n\n22\n00:07:13,096 --> 00:07:36,467\n那所以也沒有全品項那你剛才現在又告訴我說這個嘉義因為陣風比較大所以我剛才說的就是我要開全品項的時候我第一個一定考量到整個的颱風的路徑它所帶來的特別是風速那嘉義台南的地區它大概的風速大概是14到17級的風所以你現在告訴我最新的依據是要14到17級的陣風才可以開全品項嗎\n\n23\n00:07:39,348 --> 00:07:43,010\n這個東西沒有說絕對的一個標準所以部長我希望你要訂定一個明確的標準這未來你要做事也很有依據我們現在也訂了非常多的項目當然沒有包括全部的項目它的風速如果達到某個程度的時候\n\n24\n00:07:55,976 --> 00:08:15,792\n所以希望你盡快的把它明確定出來因為這對於你農業部你也好做事然後對於縣市政府他也好做事對於農民他心裡才會有一個依據嘛你為什麼不把它明定出來呢我現在也沒有要檢討你說你是不是大細心你是不是有這個偏頗我現在告訴你說你要趕快定定明確的標準啊\n\n25\n00:08:24,079 --> 00:08:41,374\n你要讓所有人心中覺得說這樣確定我一定有這我再問你我就問你好了因為沒有全品項的補助我們雖然是農作物損害全國第二高沒有全品項救助在雲林我們已經開了98項的品項了\n\n26\n00:08:44,841 --> 00:08:55,547\n我就是要告訴你是你要一項一項開從那一天颱風來開始我們在我們賴總統去勘災的時候那個時候開33項那時候爆出51項你開33項像擠牙膏一樣一次擠一點點一次擠一點點因為沒有全品項的補助因為我們是靠專業的個性\n\n27\n00:09:08,334 --> 00:09:28,580\n我先講我不曉得你的專業依據是什麼啦反正台南嘉義就是7月7號就公告全品項了我們到目前為止才慢慢一點一點的公告受災的農民非常大的困擾困擾是什麼我就問你落花生的公告日期申請區域跟申請期限你知道嗎7月10號是然後咧期限到什麼時候\n\n28\n00:09:32,079 --> 00:09:54,203\n所謂期限是什麼意思就是你報的那個期限啊沒有10天啊然後我們也特別問了雲林縣政府他要不要延長我講給你聽好了申請的區域是全縣然後第四波公告第四波7月10號公告期限到7月29號然後那N3的公告日期申請區域申請期限呢7月9號那他的申請區域呢\n\n29\n00:09:58,587 --> 00:10:17,982\n西螺二輪赤銅是然後呢然後他期限到什麼時候所謂的期限就是公告受理期限是10天嘛他現在受理的期限是到7月23號那我問你啊那是有再延長5天是那我問你啊土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎什麼土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎\n\n30\n00:10:21,752 --> 00:10:25,835\n很抱歉喔因為所以嘛我現在就告訴你說這就是農民的現況了就是部長你會錯亂他們也會錯亂你覺得每一個農民都跟他進幾行嗎他們可能進三行進四行你每一個申請的時程公告時程都不一樣區域也不一樣\n\n31\n00:10:41,986 --> 00:10:51,238\n你如果是你是部長而且你還是這一方面的專家你可能頭腦都比他們清楚很多你知道我們現在面臨的可能都是60歲70歲80歲的農民他覺得一天他就報不清楚啦你就叫他報兩天報三天每天都不一樣是要怎麼報啦\n\n32\n00:11:00,549 --> 00:11:14,194\n我跟委員報告不要大聲喔因為我這個人的習慣我是不想對你大聲我希望你拿出你的專業我會回應喔我希望拿出你的同理心我告訴你所有的災害不可能在同一天全部公告那你為什麼你現在告訴我說7月7號就公告全品項的嘉義跟台南呢\n\n33\n00:11:19,016 --> 00:11:37,057\n那個是因為當時的風速嘛我拜託你要拿出你就把它訂定一個標準以後我就尊重你的標準你不要現在沒有標準你告訴我說就是颱風的路徑什麼的我跟委員報告齁所有的天然擦害的擦害的樣態有非常多二輪的芹菜可以申請嗎\n\n34\n00:11:38,783 --> 00:11:49,126\n到什麼時候輪背的芹菜可以申請嗎到什麼時候就光你你就搞不清楚了這麼雜亂分批次公告的訊息請問品項又這麼多各個鄉鎮的我講完就跟你講\n\n35\n00:11:55,908 --> 00:11:59,231\n各個品項這麼多不同的鄉鎮時間都不同你要這些農民怎麼因應品項申請然後擺擺種讓我們的農民無所依據農民他整理田裡面的損失就已經來不及了\n\n36\n00:12:12,102 --> 00:12:15,885\n所以部長我現在我不是要對你大聲我也沒必要對你大聲我是希望你要有同理心現在我們不是在爭對或錯或者是說你有沒有開全品項我現在是在告訴你說我們受損這麼嚴重你剛剛就講了你公告了93項的這個開放品項98項你看都快要破百了\n\n37\n00:12:39,484 --> 00:12:58,100\n都快要破百了那你為什麼要堅持說沒有辦法全品項呢你的堅持是什麼你可以告訴本席說你農業部專業的評斷是專業在哪一個部分上說我們雲林縣沒有辦法開全品項好我可以回答了齁我第一個跟委員報告\n\n38\n00:12:59,491 --> 00:13:21,392\n就是因為有同理心,我才用主動公告的方式來處理,而不是由縣市政府去限幹,這第一點第二點就是說,你一直說那麼多品項我記不起來那麼多品項,我的確是沒辦法每一個縣市哪一個區域開哪一個品項,我的確沒辦法百分之百了解但是我的相關的同仁會了解你沒辦法,他們也沒辦法\n\n39\n00:13:21,812 --> 00:13:35,905\n相對的縣市政府我們透過公告這個天然災害不是今年才第一次發生過去很多發生了而且你也知道天然災害的樣態是不一樣的我不可能在第一時間全部公告所以我才告訴你說你要有一個大範圍的規範就好像你當初你說農業這個產值千分之五\n\n40\n00:13:44,093 --> 00:14:07,589\n那大家都可以算嘛你說十級陣風以上這個就是統一的嘛你可不可以有一個統一的標準你如果有一個統一的標準我想喔大家都心服口服你知道嗎你現在告訴我說這些統一的標準你都取消了你要開始用專家會議取代那你也要告訴我說你專家會議的依據是什麼我現在只是想要為我們雲林縣的農民來請命啦就是說希望未來颱風來襲你有一個\n\n41\n00:14:14,814 --> 00:14:36,131\n統一的標準統一的標準你不要讓人家有欠縫插針的機會說你颱風來了你還分顏色或者是大小吧因為受苦的這些基層最努力的農民他不能夠理解啊那最後我想要講一下就是這個水稻保險其實水稻保險大家都努力了好多年那其實呢\n\n42\n00:14:36,932 --> 00:14:40,576\n很多農民他現在就在講啊雖然這一次這一次我必須要講你們主動啟動災害股的這個收災害股我覺得是值得讚許的包括說青園補助5.5萬等等這些都是積極主動的作為我覺得是正向的正面的但我也必須要講\n\n43\n00:14:57,455 --> 00:15:08,630\n你應該還是要啟動要不你就現金救助要不你就是水稻保險就好像去年花東的二期做應該讓他們能夠有二則一的機會啊\n\n44\n00:15:10,475 --> 00:15:31,684\n我跟委員報告因為在那個當下其實雲林已經收穫了將近90%所以剩下10%所以我沒有辦法同時開放所以我用災害股去處理那後續的保險還是會平割如果說他達到災損的情況之下他還是可以得到理賠的\n\n45\n00:15:32,964 --> 00:16:02,305\n所以現在的意思就是說假設他已經交了災害股假設他已經交了災害股但是他算起來還是損失20%以下他還是可以得到他的保險對就是跟我們農業保險的部分如果說我們最後的產量區域產量如果低於20%的時候那什麼時候會算出說他的區域產量是少於20%要全部收割完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告那所以假設目前已經全部收割完了\n\n46\n00:16:02,825 --> 00:16:27,875\n現在還有大概7成沒有7%左右沒有收7%左右這其實也快收完了差不多在10天以內應該就收完了吧收完以後我們就會統計我跟委員報告齁災害股是一件事情是我們的救助但是農業保險還是它的本如果農業保險本身如果達到理賠標準我們照樣理賠不會因為你有收穫股就可以所以那這個區域怎麼公告呢什麼時候你說一個月後嗎我剛才說就是\n\n47\n00:16:30,596 --> 00:16:58,769\n該地區全部沒有全部收完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告好我希望可以競訴應該是要競訴因為過去他們都覺得說好像是要收割二三個月之後才能夠得到理賠好不好一個月競訴的來公告那最後呢我想我也不要站委員會太多時間因為已經超出時間了那最後我還是要講就是有關於第二預備金的事情假設\n\n48\n00:17:00,029 --> 00:17:23,063\n部長現在已經覺得未來有可能動用你一定要儘速開始準備因為立法院包括我們經濟委員會絕對會支持也絕對不會擋你使用第二預備金所以呢我希望說為了農民為了災民我們都不要意氣用事然後要趕快解決問題那所以如果你認為可能會不夠你要趕快儘速送來趕快來審議千萬不要影響到未來的救災這樣好不好\n\n49\n00:17:28,166 --> 00:17:34,373\n我想所有的天然災害就是我們第一優先的那不管經費怎麼樣我們也會來努力同樣的就是說我是用專業的角度去承受事實你的專業我跟你說你的專業必須要變成一個標準可以嗎你可以把你全品項免限刊的標準把它訂定出來\n\n50\n00:17:47,968 --> 00:18:03,901\n讓大家不要以後在這個台上在爭議這種浪費時間的事情好嗎可以嗎我相信你的專業我相信你的專業好不好你把它來死黑字寫下來未來我們就照著這個標準下去爭取好不好好辛苦了謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6881\t8706\t謝謝主席我想請陳部長陳部長這個是誰的\n15799\t31052\t部長辛苦了我想這次丹納斯颱風我也看到你南北奔波全台勘栽的確是辛苦了那本席來自農業大縣那我想責無旁貸一定要為我們的農民發聲那我想要先請教部長我想也請部長好好回答這個問題農業部啟動全品項免限勘的補助標準到底是什麼\n42558\t63890\t除了農業損失超過千分之五農業損失超過千分之五跟振豐達十級以上有沒有任何沒有明說的隱形標準呢我可不可以報告第一個您剛才說的千分之五這個的規定已經在今年的三四月間修正過了所以已經沒有這個標準了\n64650\t81699\t那請問標準是什麼?可以告訴我嗎?全體下免限刊的補助標準是什麼?我先回答您剛才講的就是千分之五的部分現在已經在天然災害救助規則裡面已經修掉了已經沒有這個依據了第二個部分是時機陣風就免限刊也沒有這個規定\n82699\t102251\t那所以現在呢?現在的標準是什麼?現在我們分兩個部分喔免限刊的部分喔如果說根據我們的天然災害的天氣參數裡面不是每個品項喔我們因為它必須陸陸續續的公告那你先告訴我全品項的標準是什麼?\n102771\t120100\t全品項的部分是第一個我們判斷他整個颱風進來的時候他如果對於他的那個區域那個區域可能是一個鄉鎮可能是一個縣如果具有普遍性的受戰的時候所以你現在是在告訴我說你是沒有任何數據依據我們是透過專家會議\n123862\t146108\t透過專家會議可以去做這樣的一個處理所以是沒有任何現在目前全品項免限刊你再告訴我是沒有任何有數據的依據嗎我跟委員報告全品項跟免限刊是兩件事情我們要先公告公告的時候我們可以用一個品項一個品項公告\n146408\t159507\t我當然知道等一下我要問你一個一個品項但是我現在就問你怎麼樣啟動因為過去是有農業損失超過千分之五然後振豐打十級以上的這個條件那\n162271\t170637\t雲林縣這一次其實是符合公告損失千分之五的雲林縣農業產值430億千分之五是兩億一千萬目前農損已經超過4.5億遠超標準\n178903\t202819\t而且如果假設是氣候參數陣風達10級以上雲林縣20個鄉鎮有17個鄉鎮是達到陣風10級以上甚至沿海的鄉鎮還有超過17級陣風的結果這樣子你告訴我說沒有達標全品項沒有免限刊也沒有到底是為什麼呢你可以告訴我原因嗎我剛才已經跟委員\n203780\t224555\t很明確的講就是說千分之五這個標準已經取消了那是三月取消的為什麼原因取消的呢因為用整個產業你用什麼取代這個東西呢還是你現在就打算沒有標準就是你部長一個人說了就算了絕對不是我部長一個人說了就算了\n224855\t238387\t專家會議的組成是怎麼組成的專家會議的組成是我們所有的試驗改良場所在第一線勘栽的包括我們的農林漁畜的分屬的部分所以人數是多少然後組成是多少\n240219\t250670\t我們人數是依照我們的我們要去檢討的這個品項如果今天是農糧類的就是農糧署還有農糧署的分數所以你覺得專家會議會不會恍不濟急呢會不會說颱風來了你還要把這些人都叫進來然後在那邊開會這是符合我們救災程序的嗎\n260641\t279181\t我告訴你我要跟委員報告現在的就在程序就是有地方政府提報以後做四方限刊我知道這些你不用再跟我說我不清楚嗎所以我現在是在問你全體像免限刊到底標準是什麼假設你說三四月已經取消了農業產值的標準那你的心\n281563\t287868\t標準是什麼可以告訴我嗎我們針對全品項如果要公告的時候我們的所有的試驗感染場所包括我們分組的同仁會在整個災區去看一遍所以你也不確定專家會議的人數是多少是嗎他會根據你要討論的議題所以你這個是你有一個很明確的規範嗎有嗎有可以提供我們委員會所有的委員參考嗎因為不只是我我相信包括\n308525\t322137\t參議委委員 包括陳廷輝委員還有包括謝依鳳主席他們都會需要有一個這樣子的指引讓我們很清楚知道說哪一個項目 哪一個品項是哪一些委員會跟我們做這個專家會議而且專家會議到底要開多久我舉一個例好了 我舉一個例\n331245\t349457\t這一次呢其實我真是希望救災是要不分藍綠的面對颱風來襲我們所有的農民他不只是生存受到威脅他的他的這些農產品是已經就是血本無歸了結果讓農民感受到差別待遇這就是二度傷害部長\n350538\t368422\t我們雲林縣的農業損失 農作物損失不包括漁業好了 我先把漁業排除是全國第二遠高於嘉義結果在7月7號農業部就公告說嘉義台南全品項補助雲林沒有\n370763\t398602\t然後一直到7月18號下午4點為止雲林縣的農業損失已經高達4億3666萬僅次於台南是全國第二到目前為止我們還沒有被公告全品項免限刊到底是什麼樣子的依據你覺得嘉義可以嘉義損失比我們少他可以全品項免限刊我們雲林縣不可以你告訴我原因可以嗎\n399363\t409578\t第一個部分颱風從嘉義進來那個時候因為這次颱風最主要是風量的關係所以你的依據是它颱風登陸的位置是嗎\n410888\t426297\t我們考量的是一個非常多的一個專業的考量第一個是台風的附近所帶來的風速那那個風速本身在嘉義台南地區它有普遍性的造成你剛剛不是跟我說你不參考這個什麼時級陣風嗎沒有我說時級陣風沒有所謂的時級陣風免限刊這件事情\n433096\t456467\t那所以也沒有全品項那你剛才現在又告訴我說這個嘉義因為陣風比較大所以我剛才說的就是我要開全品項的時候我第一個一定考量到整個的颱風的路徑它所帶來的特別是風速那嘉義台南的地區它大概的風速大概是14到17級的風所以你現在告訴我最新的依據是要14到17級的陣風才可以開全品項嗎\n459348\t463010\t這個東西沒有說絕對的一個標準所以部長我希望你要訂定一個明確的標準這未來你要做事也很有依據我們現在也訂了非常多的項目當然沒有包括全部的項目它的風速如果達到某個程度的時候\n475976\t495792\t所以希望你盡快的把它明確定出來因為這對於你農業部你也好做事然後對於縣市政府他也好做事對於農民他心裡才會有一個依據嘛你為什麼不把它明定出來呢我現在也沒有要檢討你說你是不是大細心你是不是有這個偏頗我現在告訴你說你要趕快定定明確的標準啊\n504079\t521374\t你要讓所有人心中覺得說這樣確定我一定有這我再問你 我就問你好了因為沒有全品項的補助我們雖然是農作物損害全國第二高沒有全品項救助在雲林我們已經開了98項的品項了\n524841\t535547\t我就是要告訴你是 你要一項一項開從那一天颱風來開始我們在 我們賴總統去勘災的時候那個時候開33項那時候爆出51項 你開33項像擠牙膏一樣 一次擠一點點 一次擠一點點因為沒有全品項的補助因為我們是靠專業的個性\n548334\t568580\t我先講 我不曉得你的專業依據是什麼啦反正台南嘉義就是7月7號就公告全品項了我們到目前為止才慢慢一點一點的公告受災的農民非常大的困擾 困擾是什麼我就問你 落花生的公告日期申請區域跟申請期限你知道嗎7月10號是 然後咧 期限到什麼時候\n572079\t594203\t所謂期限是什麼意思就是你報的那個期限啊沒有 10天啊然後我們也特別問了雲林縣政府他要不要延長我講給你聽好了申請的區域是全縣然後第四波公告第四波7月10號公告期限到7月29號然後那N3的公告日期申請區域申請期限呢7月9號那他的申請區域呢\n598587\t617982\t西螺二輪赤銅是然後呢然後他期限到什麼時候所謂的期限就是公告受理期限是10天嘛他現在受理的期限是到7月23號那我問你啊那是有再延長5天是那我問你啊土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎什麼土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎\n621752\t625835\t很抱歉喔 因為所以嘛 我現在就告訴你說這就是農民的現況了就是部長你會錯亂 他們也會錯亂你覺得每一個農民都跟他進幾行嗎他們可能進三行 進四行你每一個申請的時程公告時程都不一樣區域也不一樣\n641986\t651238\t你如果是 你是部長而且你還是這一方面的專家你可能頭腦都比他們清楚很多你知道我們現在面臨的可能都是60歲 70歲 80歲的農民他覺得一天他就報不清楚啦你就叫他報兩天報三天每天都不一樣是要怎麼報啦\n660549\t674194\t我跟委員報告不要大聲喔因為我這個人的習慣我是不想對你大聲我希望你拿出你的專業我會回應喔我希望拿出你的同理心我告訴你所有的災害不可能在同一天全部公告那你為什麼你現在告訴我說7月7號就公告全品項的嘉義跟台南呢\n679016\t697057\t那個是因為當時的風速嘛我拜託你要拿出你就把它訂定一個標準以後我就尊重你的標準你不要現在沒有標準你告訴我說就是颱風的路徑什麼的我跟委員報告齁所有的天然擦害的擦害的樣態有非常多二輪的芹菜可以申請嗎\n698783\t709126\t到什麼時候輪背的芹菜可以申請嗎到什麼時候就光你 你就搞不清楚了這麼雜亂分批次公告的訊息請問品項又這麼多各個鄉鎮的我講完就跟你講\n715908\t719231\t各個品項這麼多不同的鄉鎮時間都不同你要這些農民怎麼因應品項申請然後擺擺種讓我們的農民無所依據農民他整理田裡面的損失就已經來不及了\n732102\t735885\t所以部長我現在我不是要對你大聲我也沒必要對你大聲我是希望你要有同理心現在我們不是在爭對或錯或者是說你有沒有開全品項我現在是在告訴你說我們受損這麼嚴重你剛剛就講了你公告了93項的這個開放品項98項你看都快要破百了\n759484\t778100\t都快要破百了 那你為什麼要堅持說沒有辦法全品項呢你的堅持是什麼 你可以告訴本席說你農業部專業的評斷是專業在哪一個部分上說我們雲林縣沒有辦法開全品項好 我可以回答了齁我第一個跟委員報告\n779491\t801392\t就是因為有同理心,我才用主動公告的方式來處理,而不是由縣市政府去限幹,這第一點第二點就是說,你一直說那麼多品項我記不起來那麼多品項,我的確是沒辦法每一個縣市哪一個區域開哪一個品項,我的確沒辦法百分之百了解但是我的相關的同仁會了解你沒辦法,他們也沒辦法\n801812\t815905\t相對的縣市政府我們透過公告這個天然災害不是今年才第一次發生過去很多發生了而且你也知道天然災害的樣態是不一樣的我不可能在第一時間全部公告所以我才告訴你說你要有一個大範圍的規範就好像你當初你說農業這個產值千分之五\n824093\t847589\t那大家都可以算嘛你說十級陣風以上這個就是統一的嘛你可不可以有一個統一的標準你如果有一個統一的標準我想喔大家都心服口服你知道嗎你現在告訴我說這些統一的標準你都取消了你要開始用專家會議取代那你也要告訴我說你專家會議的依據是什麼我現在只是想要為我們雲林縣的農民來請命啦就是說希望未來颱風來襲你有一個\n854814\t876131\t統一的標準統一的標準你不要讓人家有欠縫插針的機會說你颱風來了你還分顏色或者是大小吧因為受苦的這些基層最努力的農民他不能夠理解啊那最後我想要講一下就是這個水稻保險其實水稻保險大家都努力了好多年那其實呢\n876932\t880576\t很多農民他現在就在講啊雖然這一次這一次我必須要講你們主動啟動災害股的這個收災害股我覺得是值得讚許的包括說青園補助5.5萬等等這些都是積極主動的作為我覺得是正向的正面的但我也必須要講\n897455\t908630\t你應該還是要啟動要不你就現金救助要不你就是水稻保險就好像去年花東的二期做應該讓他們能夠有二則一的機會啊\n910475\t931684\t我跟委員報告因為在那個當下其實雲林已經收穫了將近90%所以剩下10%所以我沒有辦法同時開放所以我用災害股去處理那後續的保險還是會平割如果說他達到災損的情況之下他還是可以得到理賠的\n932964\t962305\t所以現在的意思就是說假設他已經交了災害股假設他已經交了災害股但是他算起來還是損失20%以下他還是可以得到他的保險對 就是跟我們農業保險的部分如果說我們最後的產量區域產量如果低於20%的時候那什麼時候會算出說他的區域產量是少於20%要全部收割完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告那所以假設目前已經全部收割完了\n962825\t987875\t現在還有大概7成沒有7%左右沒有收7%左右這其實也快收完了差不多在10天以內應該就收完了吧收完以後我們就會統計我跟委員報告齁災害股是一件事情是我們的救助但是農業保險還是它的本如果農業保險本身如果達到理賠標準我們照樣理賠不會因為你有收穫股就可以所以那這個區域怎麼公告呢什麼時候你說一個月後嗎我剛才說就是\n990596\t1018769\t該地區 全部沒有 全部收完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告好 我希望可以競訴應該是要競訴因為過去他們都覺得說好像是要收割二三個月之後才能夠得到理賠好不好一個月競訴的來公告那最後呢我想我也不要站委員會太多時間因為已經超出時間了那最後我還是要講就是有關於第二預備金的事情假設\n1020029\t1043063\t部長現在已經覺得未來有可能動用你一定要儘速開始準備因為立法院包括我們經濟委員會絕對會支持也絕對不會擋你使用第二預備金所以呢我希望說為了農民為了災民我們都不要意氣用事然後要趕快解決問題那所以如果你認為可能會不夠你要趕快儘速送來趕快來審議千萬不要影響到未來的救災這樣好不好\n1048166\t1054373\t我想所有的天然災害就是我們第一優先的那不管經費怎麼樣我們也會來努力同樣的就是說我是用專業的角度去承受事實你的專業 我跟你說你的專業必須要變成一個標準可以嗎你可以把你全品項免限刊的標準把它訂定出來\n1067968\t1083901\t讓大家不要以後在這個台上在爭議這種浪費時間的事情好嗎可以嗎我相信你的專業我相信你的專業好不好你把它來死黑字寫下來未來我們就照著這個標準下去爭取好不好好辛苦了謝謝好謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請陳部長陳部長這個是誰的\n部長辛苦了我想這次丹納斯颱風我也看到你南北奔波全台勘栽的確是辛苦了那本席來自農業大縣那我想責無旁貸一定要為我們的農民發聲那我想要先請教部長我想也請部長好好回答這個問題農業部啟動全品項免限勘的補助標準到底是什麼\n除了農業損失超過千分之五農業損失超過千分之五跟振豐達十級以上有沒有任何沒有明說的隱形標準呢我可不可以報告第一個您剛才說的千分之五這個的規定已經在今年的三四月間修正過了所以已經沒有這個標準了\n那請問標準是什麼?可以告訴我嗎?全體下免限刊的補助標準是什麼?我先回答您剛才講的就是千分之五的部分現在已經在天然災害救助規則裡面已經修掉了已經沒有這個依據了第二個部分是時機陣風就免限刊也沒有這個規定\n那所以現在呢?現在的標準是什麼?現在我們分兩個部分喔免限刊的部分喔如果說根據我們的天然災害的天氣參數裡面不是每個品項喔我們因為它必須陸陸續續的公告那你先告訴我全品項的標準是什麼?\n全品項的部分是第一個我們判斷他整個颱風進來的時候他如果對於他的那個區域那個區域可能是一個鄉鎮可能是一個縣如果具有普遍性的受戰的時候所以你現在是在告訴我說你是沒有任何數據依據我們是透過專家會議\n透過專家會議可以去做這樣的一個處理所以是沒有任何現在目前全品項免限刊你再告訴我是沒有任何有數據的依據嗎我跟委員報告全品項跟免限刊是兩件事情我們要先公告公告的時候我們可以用一個品項一個品項公告\n我當然知道等一下我要問你一個一個品項但是我現在就問你怎麼樣啟動因為過去是有農業損失超過千分之五然後振豐打十級以上的這個條件那\n雲林縣這一次其實是符合公告損失千分之五的雲林縣農業產值430億千分之五是兩億一千萬目前農損已經超過4.5億遠超標準\n而且如果假設是氣候參數陣風達10級以上雲林縣20個鄉鎮有17個鄉鎮是達到陣風10級以上甚至沿海的鄉鎮還有超過17級陣風的結果這樣子你告訴我說沒有達標全品項沒有免限刊也沒有到底是為什麼呢你可以告訴我原因嗎我剛才已經跟委員\n很明確的講就是說千分之五這個標準已經取消了那是三月取消的為什麼原因取消的呢因為用整個產業你用什麼取代這個東西呢還是你現在就打算沒有標準就是你部長一個人說了就算了絕對不是我部長一個人說了就算了\n專家會議的組成是怎麼組成的專家會議的組成是我們所有的試驗改良場所在第一線勘栽的包括我們的農林漁畜的分屬的部分所以人數是多少然後組成是多少\n我們人數是依照我們的我們要去檢討的這個品項如果今天是農糧類的就是農糧署還有農糧署的分數所以你覺得專家會議會不會恍不濟急呢會不會說颱風來了你還要把這些人都叫進來然後在那邊開會這是符合我們救災程序的嗎\n我告訴你我要跟委員報告現在的就在程序就是有地方政府提報以後做四方限刊我知道這些你不用再跟我說我不清楚嗎所以我現在是在問你全體像免限刊到底標準是什麼假設你說三四月已經取消了農業產值的標準那你的心\n標準是什麼可以告訴我嗎我們針對全品項如果要公告的時候我們的所有的試驗感染場所包括我們分組的同仁會在整個災區去看一遍所以你也不確定專家會議的人數是多少是嗎他會根據你要討論的議題所以你這個是你有一個很明確的規範嗎有嗎有可以提供我們委員會所有的委員參考嗎因為不只是我我相信包括\n參議委委員 包括陳廷輝委員還有包括謝依鳳主席他們都會需要有一個這樣子的指引讓我們很清楚知道說哪一個項目 哪一個品項是哪一些委員會跟我們做這個專家會議而且專家會議到底要開多久我舉一個例好了 我舉一個例\n這一次呢其實我真是希望救災是要不分藍綠的面對颱風來襲我們所有的農民他不只是生存受到威脅他的他的這些農產品是已經就是血本無歸了結果讓農民感受到差別待遇這就是二度傷害部長\n我們雲林縣的農業損失 農作物損失不包括漁業好了 我先把漁業排除是全國第二遠高於嘉義結果在7月7號農業部就公告說嘉義台南全品項補助雲林沒有\n然後一直到7月18號下午4點為止雲林縣的農業損失已經高達4億3666萬僅次於台南是全國第二到目前為止我們還沒有被公告全品項免限刊到底是什麼樣子的依據你覺得嘉義可以嘉義損失比我們少他可以全品項免限刊我們雲林縣不可以你告訴我原因可以嗎\n第一個部分颱風從嘉義進來那個時候因為這次颱風最主要是風量的關係所以你的依據是它颱風登陸的位置是嗎\n我們考量的是一個非常多的一個專業的考量第一個是台風的附近所帶來的風速那那個風速本身在嘉義台南地區它有普遍性的造成你剛剛不是跟我說你不參考這個什麼時級陣風嗎沒有我說時級陣風沒有所謂的時級陣風免限刊這件事情\n那所以也沒有全品項那你剛才現在又告訴我說這個嘉義因為陣風比較大所以我剛才說的就是我要開全品項的時候我第一個一定考量到整個的颱風的路徑它所帶來的特別是風速那嘉義台南的地區它大概的風速大概是14到17級的風所以你現在告訴我最新的依據是要14到17級的陣風才可以開全品項嗎\n這個東西沒有說絕對的一個標準所以部長我希望你要訂定一個明確的標準這未來你要做事也很有依據我們現在也訂了非常多的項目當然沒有包括全部的項目它的風速如果達到某個程度的時候\n所以希望你盡快的把它明確定出來因為這對於你農業部你也好做事然後對於縣市政府他也好做事對於農民他心裡才會有一個依據嘛你為什麼不把它明定出來呢我現在也沒有要檢討你說你是不是大細心你是不是有這個偏頗我現在告訴你說你要趕快定定明確的標準啊\n你要讓所有人心中覺得說這樣確定我一定有這我再問你 我就問你好了因為沒有全品項的補助我們雖然是農作物損害全國第二高沒有全品項救助在雲林我們已經開了98項的品項了\n我就是要告訴你是 你要一項一項開從那一天颱風來開始我們在 我們賴總統去勘災的時候那個時候開33項那時候爆出51項 你開33項像擠牙膏一樣 一次擠一點點 一次擠一點點因為沒有全品項的補助因為我們是靠專業的個性\n我先講 我不曉得你的專業依據是什麼啦反正台南嘉義就是7月7號就公告全品項了我們到目前為止才慢慢一點一點的公告受災的農民非常大的困擾 困擾是什麼我就問你 落花生的公告日期申請區域跟申請期限你知道嗎7月10號是 然後咧 期限到什麼時候\n所謂期限是什麼意思就是你報的那個期限啊沒有 10天啊然後我們也特別問了雲林縣政府他要不要延長我講給你聽好了申請的區域是全縣然後第四波公告第四波7月10號公告期限到7月29號然後那N3的公告日期申請區域申請期限呢7月9號那他的申請區域呢\n西螺二輪赤銅是然後呢然後他期限到什麼時候所謂的期限就是公告受理期限是10天嘛他現在受理的期限是到7月23號那我問你啊那是有再延長5天是那我問你啊土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎什麼土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎\n很抱歉喔 因為所以嘛 我現在就告訴你說這就是農民的現況了就是部長你會錯亂 他們也會錯亂你覺得每一個農民都跟他進幾行嗎他們可能進三行 進四行你每一個申請的時程公告時程都不一樣區域也不一樣\n你如果是 你是部長而且你還是這一方面的專家你可能頭腦都比他們清楚很多你知道我們現在面臨的可能都是60歲 70歲 80歲的農民他覺得一天他就報不清楚啦你就叫他報兩天報三天每天都不一樣是要怎麼報啦\n我跟委員報告不要大聲喔因為我這個人的習慣我是不想對你大聲我希望你拿出你的專業我會回應喔我希望拿出你的同理心我告訴你所有的災害不可能在同一天全部公告那你為什麼你現在告訴我說7月7號就公告全品項的嘉義跟台南呢\n那個是因為當時的風速嘛我拜託你要拿出你就把它訂定一個標準以後我就尊重你的標準你不要現在沒有標準你告訴我說就是颱風的路徑什麼的我跟委員報告齁所有的天然擦害的擦害的樣態有非常多二輪的芹菜可以申請嗎\n到什麼時候輪背的芹菜可以申請嗎到什麼時候就光你 你就搞不清楚了這麼雜亂分批次公告的訊息請問品項又這麼多各個鄉鎮的我講完就跟你講\n各個品項這麼多不同的鄉鎮時間都不同你要這些農民怎麼因應品項申請然後擺擺種讓我們的農民無所依據農民他整理田裡面的損失就已經來不及了\n所以部長我現在我不是要對你大聲我也沒必要對你大聲我是希望你要有同理心現在我們不是在爭對或錯或者是說你有沒有開全品項我現在是在告訴你說我們受損這麼嚴重你剛剛就講了你公告了93項的這個開放品項98項你看都快要破百了\n都快要破百了 那你為什麼要堅持說沒有辦法全品項呢你的堅持是什麼 你可以告訴本席說你農業部專業的評斷是專業在哪一個部分上說我們雲林縣沒有辦法開全品項好 我可以回答了齁我第一個跟委員報告\n就是因為有同理心,我才用主動公告的方式來處理,而不是由縣市政府去限幹,這第一點第二點就是說,你一直說那麼多品項我記不起來那麼多品項,我的確是沒辦法每一個縣市哪一個區域開哪一個品項,我的確沒辦法百分之百了解但是我的相關的同仁會了解你沒辦法,他們也沒辦法\n相對的縣市政府我們透過公告這個天然災害不是今年才第一次發生過去很多發生了而且你也知道天然災害的樣態是不一樣的我不可能在第一時間全部公告所以我才告訴你說你要有一個大範圍的規範就好像你當初你說農業這個產值千分之五\n那大家都可以算嘛你說十級陣風以上這個就是統一的嘛你可不可以有一個統一的標準你如果有一個統一的標準我想喔大家都心服口服你知道嗎你現在告訴我說這些統一的標準你都取消了你要開始用專家會議取代那你也要告訴我說你專家會議的依據是什麼我現在只是想要為我們雲林縣的農民來請命啦就是說希望未來颱風來襲你有一個\n統一的標準統一的標準你不要讓人家有欠縫插針的機會說你颱風來了你還分顏色或者是大小吧因為受苦的這些基層最努力的農民他不能夠理解啊那最後我想要講一下就是這個水稻保險其實水稻保險大家都努力了好多年那其實呢\n很多農民他現在就在講啊雖然這一次這一次我必須要講你們主動啟動災害股的這個收災害股我覺得是值得讚許的包括說青園補助5.5萬等等這些都是積極主動的作為我覺得是正向的正面的但我也必須要講\n你應該還是要啟動要不你就現金救助要不你就是水稻保險就好像去年花東的二期做應該讓他們能夠有二則一的機會啊\n我跟委員報告因為在那個當下其實雲林已經收穫了將近90%所以剩下10%所以我沒有辦法同時開放所以我用災害股去處理那後續的保險還是會平割如果說他達到災損的情況之下他還是可以得到理賠的\n所以現在的意思就是說假設他已經交了災害股假設他已經交了災害股但是他算起來還是損失20%以下他還是可以得到他的保險對 就是跟我們農業保險的部分如果說我們最後的產量區域產量如果低於20%的時候那什麼時候會算出說他的區域產量是少於20%要全部收割完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告那所以假設目前已經全部收割完了\n現在還有大概7成沒有7%左右沒有收7%左右這其實也快收完了差不多在10天以內應該就收完了吧收完以後我們就會統計我跟委員報告齁災害股是一件事情是我們的救助但是農業保險還是它的本如果農業保險本身如果達到理賠標準我們照樣理賠不會因為你有收穫股就可以所以那這個區域怎麼公告呢什麼時候你說一個月後嗎我剛才說就是\n該地區 全部沒有 全部收完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告好 我希望可以競訴應該是要競訴因為過去他們都覺得說好像是要收割二三個月之後才能夠得到理賠好不好一個月競訴的來公告那最後呢我想我也不要站委員會太多時間因為已經超出時間了那最後我還是要講就是有關於第二預備金的事情假設\n部長現在已經覺得未來有可能動用你一定要儘速開始準備因為立法院包括我們經濟委員會絕對會支持也絕對不會擋你使用第二預備金所以呢我希望說為了農民為了災民我們都不要意氣用事然後要趕快解決問題那所以如果你認為可能會不夠你要趕快儘速送來趕快來審議千萬不要影響到未來的救災這樣好不好\n我想所有的天然災害就是我們第一優先的那不管經費怎麼樣我們也會來努力同樣的就是說我是用專業的角度去承受事實你的專業 我跟你說你的專業必須要變成一個標準可以嗎你可以把你全品項免限刊的標準把它訂定出來\n讓大家不要以後在這個台上在爭議這種浪費時間的事情好嗎可以嗎我相信你的專業我相信你的專業好不好你把它來死黑字寫下來未來我們就照著這個標準下去爭取好不好好辛苦了謝謝好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.881 --> 00:08.706\n謝謝主席我想請陳部長陳部長這個是誰的\n\n00:15.799 --> 00:31.052\n部長辛苦了我想這次丹納斯颱風我也看到你南北奔波全台勘栽的確是辛苦了那本席來自農業大縣那我想責無旁貸一定要為我們的農民發聲那我想要先請教部長我想也請部長好好回答這個問題農業部啟動全品項免限勘的補助標準到底是什麼\n\n00:42.558 --> 01:03.890\n除了農業損失超過千分之五農業損失超過千分之五跟振豐達十級以上有沒有任何沒有明說的隱形標準呢我可不可以報告第一個您剛才說的千分之五這個的規定已經在今年的三四月間修正過了所以已經沒有這個標準了\n\n01:04.650 --> 01:21.699\n那請問標準是什麼?可以告訴我嗎?全體下免限刊的補助標準是什麼?我先回答您剛才講的就是千分之五的部分現在已經在天然災害救助規則裡面已經修掉了已經沒有這個依據了第二個部分是時機陣風就免限刊也沒有這個規定\n\n01:22.699 --> 01:42.251\n那所以現在呢?現在的標準是什麼?現在我們分兩個部分喔免限刊的部分喔如果說根據我們的天然災害的天氣參數裡面不是每個品項喔我們因為它必須陸陸續續的公告那你先告訴我全品項的標準是什麼?\n\n01:42.771 --> 02:00.100\n全品項的部分是第一個我們判斷他整個颱風進來的時候他如果對於他的那個區域那個區域可能是一個鄉鎮可能是一個縣如果具有普遍性的受戰的時候所以你現在是在告訴我說你是沒有任何數據依據我們是透過專家會議\n\n02:03.862 --> 02:26.108\n透過專家會議可以去做這樣的一個處理所以是沒有任何現在目前全品項免限刊你再告訴我是沒有任何有數據的依據嗎我跟委員報告全品項跟免限刊是兩件事情我們要先公告公告的時候我們可以用一個品項一個品項公告\n\n02:26.408 --> 02:39.507\n我當然知道等一下我要問你一個一個品項但是我現在就問你怎麼樣啟動因為過去是有農業損失超過千分之五然後振豐打十級以上的這個條件那\n\n02:42.271 --> 02:50.637\n雲林縣這一次其實是符合公告損失千分之五的雲林縣農業產值430億千分之五是兩億一千萬目前農損已經超過4.5億遠超標準\n\n02:58.903 --> 03:22.819\n而且如果假設是氣候參數陣風達10級以上雲林縣20個鄉鎮有17個鄉鎮是達到陣風10級以上甚至沿海的鄉鎮還有超過17級陣風的結果這樣子你告訴我說沒有達標全品項沒有免限刊也沒有到底是為什麼呢你可以告訴我原因嗎我剛才已經跟委員\n\n03:23.780 --> 03:44.555\n很明確的講就是說千分之五這個標準已經取消了那是三月取消的為什麼原因取消的呢因為用整個產業你用什麼取代這個東西呢還是你現在就打算沒有標準就是你部長一個人說了就算了絕對不是我部長一個人說了就算了\n\n03:44.855 --> 03:58.387\n專家會議的組成是怎麼組成的專家會議的組成是我們所有的試驗改良場所在第一線勘栽的包括我們的農林漁畜的分屬的部分所以人數是多少然後組成是多少\n\n04:00.219 --> 04:10.670\n我們人數是依照我們的我們要去檢討的這個品項如果今天是農糧類的就是農糧署還有農糧署的分數所以你覺得專家會議會不會恍不濟急呢會不會說颱風來了你還要把這些人都叫進來然後在那邊開會這是符合我們救災程序的嗎\n\n04:20.641 --> 04:39.181\n我告訴你我要跟委員報告現在的就在程序就是有地方政府提報以後做四方限刊我知道這些你不用再跟我說我不清楚嗎所以我現在是在問你全體像免限刊到底標準是什麼假設你說三四月已經取消了農業產值的標準那你的心\n\n04:41.563 --> 04:47.868\n標準是什麼可以告訴我嗎我們針對全品項如果要公告的時候我們的所有的試驗感染場所包括我們分組的同仁會在整個災區去看一遍所以你也不確定專家會議的人數是多少是嗎他會根據你要討論的議題所以你這個是你有一個很明確的規範嗎有嗎有可以提供我們委員會所有的委員參考嗎因為不只是我我相信包括\n\n05:08.525 --> 05:22.137\n參議委委員包括陳廷輝委員還有包括謝依鳳主席他們都會需要有一個這樣子的指引讓我們很清楚知道說哪一個項目哪一個品項是哪一些委員會跟我們做這個專家會議而且專家會議到底要開多久我舉一個例好了我舉一個例\n\n05:31.245 --> 05:49.457\n這一次呢其實我真是希望救災是要不分藍綠的面對颱風來襲我們所有的農民他不只是生存受到威脅他的他的這些農產品是已經就是血本無歸了結果讓農民感受到差別待遇這就是二度傷害部長\n\n05:50.538 --> 06:08.422\n我們雲林縣的農業損失農作物損失不包括漁業好了我先把漁業排除是全國第二遠高於嘉義結果在7月7號農業部就公告說嘉義台南全品項補助雲林沒有\n\n06:10.763 --> 06:38.602\n然後一直到7月18號下午4點為止雲林縣的農業損失已經高達4億3666萬僅次於台南是全國第二到目前為止我們還沒有被公告全品項免限刊到底是什麼樣子的依據你覺得嘉義可以嘉義損失比我們少他可以全品項免限刊我們雲林縣不可以你告訴我原因可以嗎\n\n06:39.363 --> 06:49.578\n第一個部分颱風從嘉義進來那個時候因為這次颱風最主要是風量的關係所以你的依據是它颱風登陸的位置是嗎\n\n06:50.888 --> 07:06.297\n我們考量的是一個非常多的一個專業的考量第一個是台風的附近所帶來的風速那那個風速本身在嘉義台南地區它有普遍性的造成你剛剛不是跟我說你不參考這個什麼時級陣風嗎沒有我說時級陣風沒有所謂的時級陣風免限刊這件事情\n\n07:13.096 --> 07:36.467\n那所以也沒有全品項那你剛才現在又告訴我說這個嘉義因為陣風比較大所以我剛才說的就是我要開全品項的時候我第一個一定考量到整個的颱風的路徑它所帶來的特別是風速那嘉義台南的地區它大概的風速大概是14到17級的風所以你現在告訴我最新的依據是要14到17級的陣風才可以開全品項嗎\n\n07:39.348 --> 07:43.010\n這個東西沒有說絕對的一個標準所以部長我希望你要訂定一個明確的標準這未來你要做事也很有依據我們現在也訂了非常多的項目當然沒有包括全部的項目它的風速如果達到某個程度的時候\n\n07:55.976 --> 08:15.792\n所以希望你盡快的把它明確定出來因為這對於你農業部你也好做事然後對於縣市政府他也好做事對於農民他心裡才會有一個依據嘛你為什麼不把它明定出來呢我現在也沒有要檢討你說你是不是大細心你是不是有這個偏頗我現在告訴你說你要趕快定定明確的標準啊\n\n08:24.079 --> 08:41.374\n你要讓所有人心中覺得說這樣確定我一定有這我再問你我就問你好了因為沒有全品項的補助我們雖然是農作物損害全國第二高沒有全品項救助在雲林我們已經開了98項的品項了\n\n08:44.841 --> 08:55.547\n我就是要告訴你是你要一項一項開從那一天颱風來開始我們在我們賴總統去勘災的時候那個時候開33項那時候爆出51項你開33項像擠牙膏一樣一次擠一點點一次擠一點點因為沒有全品項的補助因為我們是靠專業的個性\n\n09:08.334 --> 09:28.580\n我先講我不曉得你的專業依據是什麼啦反正台南嘉義就是7月7號就公告全品項了我們到目前為止才慢慢一點一點的公告受災的農民非常大的困擾困擾是什麼我就問你落花生的公告日期申請區域跟申請期限你知道嗎7月10號是然後咧期限到什麼時候\n\n09:32.079 --> 09:54.203\n所謂期限是什麼意思就是你報的那個期限啊沒有10天啊然後我們也特別問了雲林縣政府他要不要延長我講給你聽好了申請的區域是全縣然後第四波公告第四波7月10號公告期限到7月29號然後那N3的公告日期申請區域申請期限呢7月9號那他的申請區域呢\n\n09:58.587 --> 10:17.982\n西螺二輪赤銅是然後呢然後他期限到什麼時候所謂的期限就是公告受理期限是10天嘛他現在受理的期限是到7月23號那我問你啊那是有再延長5天是那我問你啊土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎什麼土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎\n\n10:21.752 --> 10:25.835\n很抱歉喔因為所以嘛我現在就告訴你說這就是農民的現況了就是部長你會錯亂他們也會錯亂你覺得每一個農民都跟他進幾行嗎他們可能進三行進四行你每一個申請的時程公告時程都不一樣區域也不一樣\n\n10:41.986 --> 10:51.238\n你如果是你是部長而且你還是這一方面的專家你可能頭腦都比他們清楚很多你知道我們現在面臨的可能都是60歲70歲80歲的農民他覺得一天他就報不清楚啦你就叫他報兩天報三天每天都不一樣是要怎麼報啦\n\n11:00.549 --> 11:14.194\n我跟委員報告不要大聲喔因為我這個人的習慣我是不想對你大聲我希望你拿出你的專業我會回應喔我希望拿出你的同理心我告訴你所有的災害不可能在同一天全部公告那你為什麼你現在告訴我說7月7號就公告全品項的嘉義跟台南呢\n\n11:19.016 --> 11:37.057\n那個是因為當時的風速嘛我拜託你要拿出你就把它訂定一個標準以後我就尊重你的標準你不要現在沒有標準你告訴我說就是颱風的路徑什麼的我跟委員報告齁所有的天然擦害的擦害的樣態有非常多二輪的芹菜可以申請嗎\n\n11:38.783 --> 11:49.126\n到什麼時候輪背的芹菜可以申請嗎到什麼時候就光你你就搞不清楚了這麼雜亂分批次公告的訊息請問品項又這麼多各個鄉鎮的我講完就跟你講\n\n11:55.908 --> 11:59.231\n各個品項這麼多不同的鄉鎮時間都不同你要這些農民怎麼因應品項申請然後擺擺種讓我們的農民無所依據農民他整理田裡面的損失就已經來不及了\n\n12:12.102 --> 12:15.885\n所以部長我現在我不是要對你大聲我也沒必要對你大聲我是希望你要有同理心現在我們不是在爭對或錯或者是說你有沒有開全品項我現在是在告訴你說我們受損這麼嚴重你剛剛就講了你公告了93項的這個開放品項98項你看都快要破百了\n\n12:39.484 --> 12:58.100\n都快要破百了那你為什麼要堅持說沒有辦法全品項呢你的堅持是什麼你可以告訴本席說你農業部專業的評斷是專業在哪一個部分上說我們雲林縣沒有辦法開全品項好我可以回答了齁我第一個跟委員報告\n\n12:59.491 --> 13:21.392\n就是因為有同理心,我才用主動公告的方式來處理,而不是由縣市政府去限幹,這第一點第二點就是說,你一直說那麼多品項我記不起來那麼多品項,我的確是沒辦法每一個縣市哪一個區域開哪一個品項,我的確沒辦法百分之百了解但是我的相關的同仁會了解你沒辦法,他們也沒辦法\n\n13:21.812 --> 13:35.905\n相對的縣市政府我們透過公告這個天然災害不是今年才第一次發生過去很多發生了而且你也知道天然災害的樣態是不一樣的我不可能在第一時間全部公告所以我才告訴你說你要有一個大範圍的規範就好像你當初你說農業這個產值千分之五\n\n13:44.093 --> 14:07.589\n那大家都可以算嘛你說十級陣風以上這個就是統一的嘛你可不可以有一個統一的標準你如果有一個統一的標準我想喔大家都心服口服你知道嗎你現在告訴我說這些統一的標準你都取消了你要開始用專家會議取代那你也要告訴我說你專家會議的依據是什麼我現在只是想要為我們雲林縣的農民來請命啦就是說希望未來颱風來襲你有一個\n\n14:14.814 --> 14:36.131\n統一的標準統一的標準你不要讓人家有欠縫插針的機會說你颱風來了你還分顏色或者是大小吧因為受苦的這些基層最努力的農民他不能夠理解啊那最後我想要講一下就是這個水稻保險其實水稻保險大家都努力了好多年那其實呢\n\n14:36.932 --> 14:40.576\n很多農民他現在就在講啊雖然這一次這一次我必須要講你們主動啟動災害股的這個收災害股我覺得是值得讚許的包括說青園補助5.5萬等等這些都是積極主動的作為我覺得是正向的正面的但我也必須要講\n\n14:57.455 --> 15:08.630\n你應該還是要啟動要不你就現金救助要不你就是水稻保險就好像去年花東的二期做應該讓他們能夠有二則一的機會啊\n\n15:10.475 --> 15:31.684\n我跟委員報告因為在那個當下其實雲林已經收穫了將近90%所以剩下10%所以我沒有辦法同時開放所以我用災害股去處理那後續的保險還是會平割如果說他達到災損的情況之下他還是可以得到理賠的\n\n15:32.964 --> 16:02.305\n所以現在的意思就是說假設他已經交了災害股假設他已經交了災害股但是他算起來還是損失20%以下他還是可以得到他的保險對就是跟我們農業保險的部分如果說我們最後的產量區域產量如果低於20%的時候那什麼時候會算出說他的區域產量是少於20%要全部收割完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告那所以假設目前已經全部收割完了\n\n16:02.825 --> 16:27.875\n現在還有大概7成沒有7%左右沒有收7%左右這其實也快收完了差不多在10天以內應該就收完了吧收完以後我們就會統計我跟委員報告齁災害股是一件事情是我們的救助但是農業保險還是它的本如果農業保險本身如果達到理賠標準我們照樣理賠不會因為你有收穫股就可以所以那這個區域怎麼公告呢什麼時候你說一個月後嗎我剛才說就是\n\n16:30.596 --> 16:58.769\n該地區全部沒有全部收完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告好我希望可以競訴應該是要競訴因為過去他們都覺得說好像是要收割二三個月之後才能夠得到理賠好不好一個月競訴的來公告那最後呢我想我也不要站委員會太多時間因為已經超出時間了那最後我還是要講就是有關於第二預備金的事情假設\n\n17:00.029 --> 17:23.063\n部長現在已經覺得未來有可能動用你一定要儘速開始準備因為立法院包括我們經濟委員會絕對會支持也絕對不會擋你使用第二預備金所以呢我希望說為了農民為了災民我們都不要意氣用事然後要趕快解決問題那所以如果你認為可能會不夠你要趕快儘速送來趕快來審議千萬不要影響到未來的救災這樣好不好\n\n17:28.166 --> 17:34.373\n我想所有的天然災害就是我們第一優先的那不管經費怎麼樣我們也會來努力同樣的就是說我是用專業的角度去承受事實你的專業我跟你說你的專業必須要變成一個標準可以嗎你可以把你全品項免限刊的標準把它訂定出來\n\n17:47.968 --> 18:03.901\n讓大家不要以後在這個台上在爭議這種浪費時間的事情好嗎可以嗎我相信你的專業我相信你的專業好不好你把它來死黑字寫下來未來我們就照著這個標準下去爭取好不好好辛苦了謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.881,"end":8.706,"text":"謝謝主席我想請陳部長陳部長這個是誰的"},{"start":15.799,"end":31.052,"text":"部長辛苦了我想這次丹納斯颱風我也看到你南北奔波全台勘栽的確是辛苦了那本席來自農業大縣那我想責無旁貸一定要為我們的農民發聲那我想要先請教部長我想也請部長好好回答這個問題農業部啟動全品項免限勘的補助標準到底是什麼"},{"start":42.558,"end":63.89,"text":"除了農業損失超過千分之五農業損失超過千分之五跟振豐達十級以上有沒有任何沒有明說的隱形標準呢我可不可以報告第一個您剛才說的千分之五這個的規定已經在今年的三四月間修正過了所以已經沒有這個標準了"},{"start":64.65,"end":81.699,"text":"那請問標準是什麼?可以告訴我嗎?全體下免限刊的補助標準是什麼?我先回答您剛才講的就是千分之五的部分現在已經在天然災害救助規則裡面已經修掉了已經沒有這個依據了第二個部分是時機陣風就免限刊也沒有這個規定"},{"start":82.699,"end":102.251,"text":"那所以現在呢?現在的標準是什麼?現在我們分兩個部分喔免限刊的部分喔如果說根據我們的天然災害的天氣參數裡面不是每個品項喔我們因為它必須陸陸續續的公告那你先告訴我全品項的標準是什麼?"},{"start":102.771,"end":120.1,"text":"全品項的部分是第一個我們判斷他整個颱風進來的時候他如果對於他的那個區域那個區域可能是一個鄉鎮可能是一個縣如果具有普遍性的受戰的時候所以你現在是在告訴我說你是沒有任何數據依據我們是透過專家會議"},{"start":123.862,"end":146.108,"text":"透過專家會議可以去做這樣的一個處理所以是沒有任何現在目前全品項免限刊你再告訴我是沒有任何有數據的依據嗎我跟委員報告全品項跟免限刊是兩件事情我們要先公告公告的時候我們可以用一個品項一個品項公告"},{"start":146.408,"end":159.507,"text":"我當然知道等一下我要問你一個一個品項但是我現在就問你怎麼樣啟動因為過去是有農業損失超過千分之五然後振豐打十級以上的這個條件那"},{"start":162.271,"end":170.637,"text":"雲林縣這一次其實是符合公告損失千分之五的雲林縣農業產值430億千分之五是兩億一千萬目前農損已經超過4.5億遠超標準"},{"start":178.903,"end":202.819,"text":"而且如果假設是氣候參數陣風達10級以上雲林縣20個鄉鎮有17個鄉鎮是達到陣風10級以上甚至沿海的鄉鎮還有超過17級陣風的結果這樣子你告訴我說沒有達標全品項沒有免限刊也沒有到底是為什麼呢你可以告訴我原因嗎我剛才已經跟委員"},{"start":203.78,"end":224.555,"text":"很明確的講就是說千分之五這個標準已經取消了那是三月取消的為什麼原因取消的呢因為用整個產業你用什麼取代這個東西呢還是你現在就打算沒有標準就是你部長一個人說了就算了絕對不是我部長一個人說了就算了"},{"start":224.855,"end":238.387,"text":"專家會議的組成是怎麼組成的專家會議的組成是我們所有的試驗改良場所在第一線勘栽的包括我們的農林漁畜的分屬的部分所以人數是多少然後組成是多少"},{"start":240.219,"end":250.67,"text":"我們人數是依照我們的我們要去檢討的這個品項如果今天是農糧類的就是農糧署還有農糧署的分數所以你覺得專家會議會不會恍不濟急呢會不會說颱風來了你還要把這些人都叫進來然後在那邊開會這是符合我們救災程序的嗎"},{"start":260.641,"end":279.181,"text":"我告訴你我要跟委員報告現在的就在程序就是有地方政府提報以後做四方限刊我知道這些你不用再跟我說我不清楚嗎所以我現在是在問你全體像免限刊到底標準是什麼假設你說三四月已經取消了農業產值的標準那你的心"},{"start":281.563,"end":287.868,"text":"標準是什麼可以告訴我嗎我們針對全品項如果要公告的時候我們的所有的試驗感染場所包括我們分組的同仁會在整個災區去看一遍所以你也不確定專家會議的人數是多少是嗎他會根據你要討論的議題所以你這個是你有一個很明確的規範嗎有嗎有可以提供我們委員會所有的委員參考嗎因為不只是我我相信包括"},{"start":308.525,"end":322.137,"text":"參議委委員 包括陳廷輝委員還有包括謝依鳳主席他們都會需要有一個這樣子的指引讓我們很清楚知道說哪一個項目 哪一個品項是哪一些委員會跟我們做這個專家會議而且專家會議到底要開多久我舉一個例好了 我舉一個例"},{"start":331.245,"end":349.457,"text":"這一次呢其實我真是希望救災是要不分藍綠的面對颱風來襲我們所有的農民他不只是生存受到威脅他的他的這些農產品是已經就是血本無歸了結果讓農民感受到差別待遇這就是二度傷害部長"},{"start":350.538,"end":368.422,"text":"我們雲林縣的農業損失 農作物損失不包括漁業好了 我先把漁業排除是全國第二遠高於嘉義結果在7月7號農業部就公告說嘉義台南全品項補助雲林沒有"},{"start":370.763,"end":398.602,"text":"然後一直到7月18號下午4點為止雲林縣的農業損失已經高達4億3666萬僅次於台南是全國第二到目前為止我們還沒有被公告全品項免限刊到底是什麼樣子的依據你覺得嘉義可以嘉義損失比我們少他可以全品項免限刊我們雲林縣不可以你告訴我原因可以嗎"},{"start":399.363,"end":409.578,"text":"第一個部分颱風從嘉義進來那個時候因為這次颱風最主要是風量的關係所以你的依據是它颱風登陸的位置是嗎"},{"start":410.888,"end":426.297,"text":"我們考量的是一個非常多的一個專業的考量第一個是台風的附近所帶來的風速那那個風速本身在嘉義台南地區它有普遍性的造成你剛剛不是跟我說你不參考這個什麼時級陣風嗎沒有我說時級陣風沒有所謂的時級陣風免限刊這件事情"},{"start":433.096,"end":456.467,"text":"那所以也沒有全品項那你剛才現在又告訴我說這個嘉義因為陣風比較大所以我剛才說的就是我要開全品項的時候我第一個一定考量到整個的颱風的路徑它所帶來的特別是風速那嘉義台南的地區它大概的風速大概是14到17級的風所以你現在告訴我最新的依據是要14到17級的陣風才可以開全品項嗎"},{"start":459.348,"end":463.01,"text":"這個東西沒有說絕對的一個標準所以部長我希望你要訂定一個明確的標準這未來你要做事也很有依據我們現在也訂了非常多的項目當然沒有包括全部的項目它的風速如果達到某個程度的時候"},{"start":475.976,"end":495.792,"text":"所以希望你盡快的把它明確定出來因為這對於你農業部你也好做事然後對於縣市政府他也好做事對於農民他心裡才會有一個依據嘛你為什麼不把它明定出來呢我現在也沒有要檢討你說你是不是大細心你是不是有這個偏頗我現在告訴你說你要趕快定定明確的標準啊"},{"start":504.079,"end":521.374,"text":"你要讓所有人心中覺得說這樣確定我一定有這我再問你 我就問你好了因為沒有全品項的補助我們雖然是農作物損害全國第二高沒有全品項救助在雲林我們已經開了98項的品項了"},{"start":524.841,"end":535.547,"text":"我就是要告訴你是 你要一項一項開從那一天颱風來開始我們在 我們賴總統去勘災的時候那個時候開33項那時候爆出51項 你開33項像擠牙膏一樣 一次擠一點點 一次擠一點點因為沒有全品項的補助因為我們是靠專業的個性"},{"start":548.334,"end":568.58,"text":"我先講 我不曉得你的專業依據是什麼啦反正台南嘉義就是7月7號就公告全品項了我們到目前為止才慢慢一點一點的公告受災的農民非常大的困擾 困擾是什麼我就問你 落花生的公告日期申請區域跟申請期限你知道嗎7月10號是 然後咧 期限到什麼時候"},{"start":572.079,"end":594.203,"text":"所謂期限是什麼意思就是你報的那個期限啊沒有 10天啊然後我們也特別問了雲林縣政府他要不要延長我講給你聽好了申請的區域是全縣然後第四波公告第四波7月10號公告期限到7月29號然後那N3的公告日期申請區域申請期限呢7月9號那他的申請區域呢"},{"start":598.587,"end":617.982,"text":"西螺二輪赤銅是然後呢然後他期限到什麼時候所謂的期限就是公告受理期限是10天嘛他現在受理的期限是到7月23號那我問你啊那是有再延長5天是那我問你啊土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎什麼土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎"},{"start":621.752,"end":625.835,"text":"很抱歉喔 因為所以嘛 我現在就告訴你說這就是農民的現況了就是部長你會錯亂 他們也會錯亂你覺得每一個農民都跟他進幾行嗎他們可能進三行 進四行你每一個申請的時程公告時程都不一樣區域也不一樣"},{"start":641.986,"end":651.238,"text":"你如果是 你是部長而且你還是這一方面的專家你可能頭腦都比他們清楚很多你知道我們現在面臨的可能都是60歲 70歲 80歲的農民他覺得一天他就報不清楚啦你就叫他報兩天報三天每天都不一樣是要怎麼報啦"},{"start":660.549,"end":674.194,"text":"我跟委員報告不要大聲喔因為我這個人的習慣我是不想對你大聲我希望你拿出你的專業我會回應喔我希望拿出你的同理心我告訴你所有的災害不可能在同一天全部公告那你為什麼你現在告訴我說7月7號就公告全品項的嘉義跟台南呢"},{"start":679.016,"end":697.057,"text":"那個是因為當時的風速嘛我拜託你要拿出你就把它訂定一個標準以後我就尊重你的標準你不要現在沒有標準你告訴我說就是颱風的路徑什麼的我跟委員報告齁所有的天然擦害的擦害的樣態有非常多二輪的芹菜可以申請嗎"},{"start":698.783,"end":709.126,"text":"到什麼時候輪背的芹菜可以申請嗎到什麼時候就光你 你就搞不清楚了這麼雜亂分批次公告的訊息請問品項又這麼多各個鄉鎮的我講完就跟你講"},{"start":715.908,"end":719.231,"text":"各個品項這麼多不同的鄉鎮時間都不同你要這些農民怎麼因應品項申請然後擺擺種讓我們的農民無所依據農民他整理田裡面的損失就已經來不及了"},{"start":732.102,"end":735.885,"text":"所以部長我現在我不是要對你大聲我也沒必要對你大聲我是希望你要有同理心現在我們不是在爭對或錯或者是說你有沒有開全品項我現在是在告訴你說我們受損這麼嚴重你剛剛就講了你公告了93項的這個開放品項98項你看都快要破百了"},{"start":759.484,"end":778.1,"text":"都快要破百了 那你為什麼要堅持說沒有辦法全品項呢你的堅持是什麼 你可以告訴本席說你農業部專業的評斷是專業在哪一個部分上說我們雲林縣沒有辦法開全品項好 我可以回答了齁我第一個跟委員報告"},{"start":779.491,"end":801.392,"text":"就是因為有同理心,我才用主動公告的方式來處理,而不是由縣市政府去限幹,這第一點第二點就是說,你一直說那麼多品項我記不起來那麼多品項,我的確是沒辦法每一個縣市哪一個區域開哪一個品項,我的確沒辦法百分之百了解但是我的相關的同仁會了解你沒辦法,他們也沒辦法"},{"start":801.812,"end":815.905,"text":"相對的縣市政府我們透過公告這個天然災害不是今年才第一次發生過去很多發生了而且你也知道天然災害的樣態是不一樣的我不可能在第一時間全部公告所以我才告訴你說你要有一個大範圍的規範就好像你當初你說農業這個產值千分之五"},{"start":824.093,"end":847.589,"text":"那大家都可以算嘛你說十級陣風以上這個就是統一的嘛你可不可以有一個統一的標準你如果有一個統一的標準我想喔大家都心服口服你知道嗎你現在告訴我說這些統一的標準你都取消了你要開始用專家會議取代那你也要告訴我說你專家會議的依據是什麼我現在只是想要為我們雲林縣的農民來請命啦就是說希望未來颱風來襲你有一個"},{"start":854.814,"end":876.131,"text":"統一的標準統一的標準你不要讓人家有欠縫插針的機會說你颱風來了你還分顏色或者是大小吧因為受苦的這些基層最努力的農民他不能夠理解啊那最後我想要講一下就是這個水稻保險其實水稻保險大家都努力了好多年那其實呢"},{"start":876.932,"end":880.576,"text":"很多農民他現在就在講啊雖然這一次這一次我必須要講你們主動啟動災害股的這個收災害股我覺得是值得讚許的包括說青園補助5.5萬等等這些都是積極主動的作為我覺得是正向的正面的但我也必須要講"},{"start":897.455,"end":908.63,"text":"你應該還是要啟動要不你就現金救助要不你就是水稻保險就好像去年花東的二期做應該讓他們能夠有二則一的機會啊"},{"start":910.475,"end":931.684,"text":"我跟委員報告因為在那個當下其實雲林已經收穫了將近90%所以剩下10%所以我沒有辦法同時開放所以我用災害股去處理那後續的保險還是會平割如果說他達到災損的情況之下他還是可以得到理賠的"},{"start":932.964,"end":962.305,"text":"所以現在的意思就是說假設他已經交了災害股假設他已經交了災害股但是他算起來還是損失20%以下他還是可以得到他的保險對 就是跟我們農業保險的部分如果說我們最後的產量區域產量如果低於20%的時候那什麼時候會算出說他的區域產量是少於20%要全部收割完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告那所以假設目前已經全部收割完了"},{"start":962.825,"end":987.875,"text":"現在還有大概7成沒有7%左右沒有收7%左右這其實也快收完了差不多在10天以內應該就收完了吧收完以後我們就會統計我跟委員報告齁災害股是一件事情是我們的救助但是農業保險還是它的本如果農業保險本身如果達到理賠標準我們照樣理賠不會因為你有收穫股就可以所以那這個區域怎麼公告呢什麼時候你說一個月後嗎我剛才說就是"},{"start":990.596,"end":1018.769,"text":"該地區 全部沒有 全部收完以後的一個月之內我們就會公告好 我希望可以競訴應該是要競訴因為過去他們都覺得說好像是要收割二三個月之後才能夠得到理賠好不好一個月競訴的來公告那最後呢我想我也不要站委員會太多時間因為已經超出時間了那最後我還是要講就是有關於第二預備金的事情假設"},{"start":1020.029,"end":1043.063,"text":"部長現在已經覺得未來有可能動用你一定要儘速開始準備因為立法院包括我們經濟委員會絕對會支持也絕對不會擋你使用第二預備金所以呢我希望說為了農民為了災民我們都不要意氣用事然後要趕快解決問題那所以如果你認為可能會不夠你要趕快儘速送來趕快來審議千萬不要影響到未來的救災這樣好不好"},{"start":1048.166,"end":1054.373,"text":"我想所有的天然災害就是我們第一優先的那不管經費怎麼樣我們也會來努力同樣的就是說我是用專業的角度去承受事實你的專業 我跟你說你的專業必須要變成一個標準可以嗎你可以把你全品項免限刊的標準把它訂定出來"},{"start":1067.968,"end":1083.901,"text":"讓大家不要以後在這個台上在爭議這種浪費時間的事情好嗎可以嗎我相信你的專業我相信你的專業好不好你把它來死黑字寫下來未來我們就照著這個標準下去爭取好不好好辛苦了謝謝好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":517,"blocks":[["張委員嘉郡：（10時44分）謝謝主席，我想請陳部長。"],["主席：請陳部長。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["張委員嘉郡：部長辛苦了！這次丹娜絲颱風，我也看到你南北奔波，全臺勘災，的確是辛苦了！本席來自農業大縣，責無旁貸，一定要為我們的農民發聲。","我想先請教部長，也請部長好好回答這個問題，農業部啟動全品項免現勘的補助標準到底是什麼？除了農業損失超過千分之五和陣風達10級以上，有沒有任何沒有明說的隱形標準呢？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，第一個，您剛才說的千分之五的規定已經在今年三、四月間修正過了，所以已經沒有這個標準了。"],["張委員嘉郡：那請問標準是什麼？可以告訴我嗎？全品項免現勘的補助標準是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我先回答您剛才講的，千分之五的部分在天然災害救助規則裡面已經修掉了，已經沒有這個依據了。第二個部分是10級陣風就免現勘，也沒有這個規定。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以現在呢？現在的標準是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：我們分兩個部分，免現勘的部分如果根據我們天然災害的天氣參數裡面，並不是每個品項，因為它必須陸陸續續公告，只要公告……"],["張委員嘉郡：那你先告訴我全品項的標準是什麼！"],["陳部長駿季：全品項的部分是，第一個，我們判斷整個颱風進來的時候，如果那個區域（那個區域可能是一個鄉鎮，也可能是一個縣）有普遍性受災的時候……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你現在是在告訴我，你並沒有任何數據依據來評斷嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們是透過專家會議，可以去做這樣的一個處理，這是為了重大災害的時候……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你是在告訴我，目前全品項免現勘是沒有任何數據依據的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，全品項跟免現勘是兩件事情，我們要先公告，公告的時候，我們可以一個品項、一個品項公告，或者是……"],["張委員嘉郡：我當然知道啊！等一下我要問你一個、一個品項，但我現在就問你怎麼樣啟動。因為過去是有農業損失超過千分之五，然後陣風達10級以上的條件，雲林縣這次其實是符合損失千分之五的，雲林縣農業產值430億，千分之五是2億1,000萬，目前農損已經超過4.5億，遠超標準；而且假設是氣候參數，陣風達10級以上，雲林縣20個鄉鎮有17個鄉鎮達到陣風10級以上，甚至沿海鄉鎮還有超過17級陣風的，結果你告訴我這樣沒有達標！全品項沒有！免現勘也沒有！到底是為什麼呢？你可以告訴我原因嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我剛才已經很明確地跟委員講了，就是千分之五這個標準已經取消了，所以沒有……"],["張委員嘉郡：這是3月取消的？"],["陳部長駿季：對，今年大概3月取消的。"],["張委員嘉郡：為什麼取消呢？"],["陳部長駿季：因為用整個產業的……"],["張委員嘉郡：你用什麼來取代這個東西呢？還是你現在就打算沒有標準，就是你部長一個人說了就算？"],["陳部長駿季：絕對不是我部長一個人說了算。"],["張委員嘉郡：那你專家會議是怎麼組成的？"],["陳部長駿季：專家會議的組成是我們所有的試驗改良場所在第一線勘災的，包括我們農林漁畜分署的部分。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以人數是多少？組成是多少？"],["陳部長駿季：人數是依照我們要去檢討的品項，如果今天是農糧類的，就是農糧署還有農糧署的分署……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你覺得專家會議會不會緩不濟急？會不會颱風來了，你還要把這些人都叫進來，然後在那邊開會，這是符合救災程序的嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我要跟委員報告，現在的救災程序是由地方政府提報以後，做四方現勘，四方現勘以後……"],["張委員嘉郡：我知道，這些你不用再跟我說，我不清楚嗎？我現在是在問你全品項免現勘到底標準是什麼，假設你說三、四月已經取消了農業產值的標準，那麼你的新標準是什麼？可以告訴我們。"],["陳部長駿季：我們針對全品項如果要公告的時候，我們所有的試驗改良場所，包括我們分組的同仁，會在整個災區去看一遍……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你也不確定專家會議的人數是多少是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：它會根據你要討論的議題……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你有一個很明確的規範嗎？有嗎？有可以提供我們委員會所有的委員參考嗎？因為不只是我，我相信包括蔡易餘委員，包括陳亭妃委員，還有包括謝衣鳯主席，他們都會需要有一個這樣子的指引，讓我們很清楚知道哪一個項目、哪一個品項是哪一些委員會跟我們做專家會議，而且專家會議到底要開多久。我舉一個例好了，這一次其實我真是希望救災是要不分藍綠的，面對颱風來襲，我們所有的農民不只是生存受到威脅，他的這些農產品已經是血本無歸了，結果讓農民感受到差別待遇，這就是二度傷害。部長，我們雲林縣的農業損失、農作物損失，不包括漁業好了，我先把漁業排除，農作物損失是全國第二，遠高於嘉義，結果在7月7日農業部公告嘉義、臺南全品項補助，雲林沒有，一直到7月18日下午4點為止，雲林縣的農業損失已經高達4億3,666萬，僅次於臺南，是全國第二，到目前為止，我們還沒有被公告全品項免現勘，到底是什麼樣子的依據，你覺得嘉義可以全品項免現勘？嘉義損失比我們少，它可以全品項免現勘，我們雲林縣不可以，你告訴我原因可以嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，颱風從嘉義進來，因為這次颱風最主要是風量的關係……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你的依據是颱風登陸的位置是嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我們有非常多專業的考量，第一個部分是……"],["張委員嘉郡：類似什麼？你的專業考量是什麼？"],["陳部長駿季：颱風路徑所帶來的風速，風速本身在嘉義、臺南地區有普遍性地造成十四級到十七級……"],["張委員嘉郡：你剛剛不是跟我說你不參考這個什麼十級陣風嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，我說十級陣風沒有所謂十級陣風免現勘這件事情。"],["張委員嘉郡：所以也沒有全品項，你現在又告訴我嘉義因為陣風比較大，所以……"],["陳部長駿季：我剛才說的就是我要開全品項的時候，我第一個一定考量到整個颱風的路徑所帶來的，特別是風速，嘉義、臺南地區的風速大概是十四到十七級的風……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以你現在告訴我最新的依據是要十四到十七級的陣風才可以開全品項嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：這個東西沒有說絕對的一個標準，除非……"],["張委員嘉郡：是啊！所以我希望部長要訂定一個明確的標準，這未來你要做事也很有依據。"],["陳部長駿季：我們現在也訂了非常多的項目，當然沒有包括全部的項目，它的風速如果達到某個程度的時候，就可以免現勘或公告……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以希望你儘快地把它明確訂出來。"],["陳部長駿季：我們已經有訂出來。"],["張委員嘉郡：因為這對於農業部，你也好做事；對於縣市政府，也好做事；對於農民，他心裡才會有一個依據嘛！你為什麼不把它明訂出來呢？我現在也沒有要檢討你是不是大小心、你是不是有偏頗，我現在告訴你的是，你要趕快訂定明確的標準，你要讓所有人心中覺得這樣確定他一定有。我再問你，我就問你好了，因為沒有全品項的補助，我們雖然是農作物損害全國第二高，沒有全品項救助……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，在雲林我們已經開了98項的品項了。"],["張委員嘉郡：我就是要告訴你，是！你要一項一項開，從那一天颱風來開始，我們賴總統去勘災的時候，那個時候開33項，那時候爆出51項，你開33項，像擠牙膏一樣，一次擠一點點，因為沒有全品項的補助……"],["陳部長駿季：因為我們是靠專業的……"],["張委員嘉郡：我先慢慢講，我先講。我不曉得你的專業依據是什麼，反正臺南、嘉義就是7月7日就公告全品項了，我們到目前為止才慢慢一點一點地公告，受災的農民有非常大的困擾，困擾是什麼？我就問你，落花生的公告日期、申請區域跟申請期限，你知道嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：7月10日。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，然後呢？期限到什麼時候？"],["陳部長駿季：所謂期限是什麼意思？"],["張委員嘉郡：就是你報的那個期限啊！"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，10天啊！我們也特別問了雲林縣政府要不要延長，它不需要延長。"],["張委員嘉郡：我講給你聽好了，申請的區域是全縣，第四波7月10日公告，期限到7月29日。那麼芫荽的公告日期、申請區域跟申請期限呢？"],["陳部長駿季：7月9日。"],["張委員嘉郡：那它的申請區域呢？"],["陳部長駿季：西螺、二崙、莿桐。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，然後呢？它期限到什麼時候？"],["陳部長駿季：所謂的期限就是公告受理期限是10天。"],["張委員嘉郡：現在受理的期限是到7月23日，那麼我問你……"],["陳部長駿季：那是有再延長5天。"],["張委員嘉郡：是，我問你，土庫的芹菜可以申請嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：很抱歉喔，因為每一個……"],["張委員嘉郡：所以嘛！我現在就告訴你，這就是農民的現況了，就是部長你會錯亂，他們也會錯亂，你覺得每一個農民都只種一樣嗎？他們可能種三樣、種四樣，你每一個申請的時程、公告的時程都不一樣，區域也不一樣，你是部長，而且你還是這方面的專家，你可能頭腦都比他們清楚很多，你知道我們現在面臨的可能都是60歲、70歲、80歲的農民，只有一樣他就報不清楚了，你要叫他報兩樣、報三樣，每樣都不一樣，是要怎麼報啦！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，不要大聲，因為我這個人的習慣……"],["張委員嘉郡：我是不想對你大聲，我希望你拿出你的專業。"],["陳部長駿季：因為我會回應，我希望用專業的方式……"],["張委員嘉郡：我希望拿出你的同理心。"],["陳部長駿季：我告訴你，所有的災害不可能在同一天全部公告，從專業的角度是不可能……"],["張委員嘉郡：好，你現在告訴我7月7日就公告全品項的嘉義跟臺南呢？"],["陳部長駿季：那個是因為當時的風速嘛！"],["張委員嘉郡：我拜託你，你就把它訂定一個標準，以後我就尊重你的標準，你不要現在沒有標準，你告訴我就是颱風的路徑什麼的……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，所有天然災害的樣態還有非常多……"],["張委員嘉郡：我再講，二崙的芹菜可以申請嗎？到什麼時候？崙背的芹菜可以申請嗎？到什麼時候？就光是你，你就搞不清楚了，這麼雜亂分批次公告的訊息，請問品項又這麼多，各個鄉鎮的……"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，你可不可以讓我講完？10秒鐘就好。"],["張委員嘉郡：我講完就給你講。各個品項這麼多，不同的鄉鎮時間都不同，你要這些農民怎麼因應？品項申請百百種，讓我們的農民無所依據，農民整理田裡面的損失就已經來不及了，所以部長，我不是要對你大聲，我也沒必要對你大聲，我是希望你要有同理心，現在我們不是在爭對或錯，或者是你有沒有開全品項，我現在是在告訴你，我們受損這麼嚴重，你剛剛就講了，你公告了93項的開放品項……"],["陳部長駿季：98項。"],["張委員嘉郡：九十幾項？"],["陳部長駿季：98項。"],["張委員嘉郡：98項，你看都快要破百了，那你為什麼要堅持沒有辦法全品項呢？你的堅持是什麼？你可以告訴本席你農業部專業的評斷是專業在哪一個部分上，而評斷我們雲林縣沒有辦法開全品項？"],["陳部長駿季：好，我可以回答了？"],["張委員嘉郡：可以，請回答。"],["陳部長駿季：我第一個跟委員報告，就是因為有同理心，我才用主動公告的方式來處理，而不是由縣市政府去現勘，這第一點。第二點，你一直說那麼多品項，我記不起來，那麼多品項，我的確是沒辦法，每一個縣市哪一個區域開哪一個品項，我的確沒辦法百分之百了解，但是我相關的同仁會了解……"],["張委員嘉郡：你沒辦法，他們也沒辦法。"],["陳部長駿季：沒有。相對的縣市政府，我們透過公告，因為天然災害不是今天才第一次發生，過去很多都發生了，而且你也知道天然災害的樣態是不一樣的，我不可能在第一時間全部公告。"],["張委員嘉郡：當然，所以我才告訴你，你要有一個大範圍的規範，就好像當初你說農業產值千分之五，那大家都可以算嘛；你說十級陣風以上，這個就是統一的嘛！你可不可以有一個統一的標準，你如果有一個統一的標準，我想大家都心服口服，你知道嗎？你現在告訴我，這些統一的標準你都取消了，你要開始用專家會議取代，那你也要告訴我，你專家會議的依據是什麼，我現在只是想要為我們雲林縣的農民來請命啦！希望未來颱風來襲，你有一個統一的標準，你不要讓人家有見縫插針的機會，說你颱風來了，你還分顏色或者是大小眼，因為受苦的這些基層最努力的農民不能夠理解啊！","最後我想要講一下水稻保險，其實水稻保險大家都努力了好多年，很多農民現在就在講，這一次你們主動啟動收災害穀，我覺得是值得讚許的，包括清園補助5.5萬等等這些都是積極主動的作為，我覺得是正向的、正面的，但我也必須要講，你應該還是要啟動現金救助或者是水稻保險，就像是去年花東的二期作，應該讓他們能夠有二擇一的機會啊！"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，因為在那個當下其實雲林已經收穫了將近90%……"],["張委員嘉郡：我知道……"],["陳部長駿季：剩下10%，我沒有辦法同時開放……"],["張委員嘉郡：那10%也是我們的農民啊！"],["陳部長駿季：所以我用災害穀去處理，後續的保險還是會坪割，如果有達到災損的情形，還是可以得到理賠。"],["張委員嘉郡：喔！是嗎？所以現在的意思是說，假設他已經交了災害穀……"],["陳部長駿季：是這樣子啊！天然災害保險……"],["張委員嘉郡：假設他已經交了災害穀，但算起來還是損失在20%以上……"],["陳部長駿季：對，還是可以……"],["張委員嘉郡：他還是可以得到他的保險？"],["陳部長駿季：對，就是農業保險的部分，如果最後的區域產量低於20%，照樣可以比照……"],["張委員嘉郡：那什麼時候會算出他的區域產量少於20%？"],["陳部長駿季：全部收割完以後的一個月之內，我們就會公告。"],["張委員嘉郡：假設目前已經全部收割完了……"],["陳部長駿季：現在大概還有7%左右沒有收完。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，7%左右，這其實也快收完了，差不多10天以內應該就收完了吧？"],["陳部長駿季：對，收完以後，我們就會統計。我跟委員報告，災害穀是一件事情，這是我們的救助，但是農業保險還是他的本，如果農業保險本身達到理賠標準，我們照樣理賠，不會因為你有收穫……"],["張委員嘉郡：好，那這個區域怎麼公告呢？什麼時候？你說一個月後嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我剛才說就是該地區……"],["張委員嘉郡：坪割之後？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，全部收完以後的一個月之內，我們就會公告。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，我希望可以儘速，因為過去他們都覺得好像要收割完二、三個月之後，才能夠得到理賠，應該要儘速，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：不會，我們規定一個月就出來了。"],["張委員嘉郡：一個月儘速公告。我想我也不要占委員會太多時間，因為已經超出時間了，但最後我還是要講有關於第二預備金的事情，假設部長現在已經覺得未來有可能動用第二預備金，請你一定要儘速開始準備，立法院，包括我們經濟委員會絕對會支持，絕對不會擋你使用第二預備金，為了農民、為了災民，我們都不要意氣用事，要趕快解決問題，所以如果你認為可能會不夠，你要儘速送來本院審議，千萬不要影響到未來的救災，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我想所有的天然災害救助是我們的第一優先。"],["張委員嘉郡：加油，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：不管經費怎麼樣，我們都會來努力，同樣的，我是用專業的角度去陳述事實……"],["張委員嘉郡：我跟你說，你的專業必須要變成一個標準，可以嗎？你可以把你們全品項免現勘的標準訂定出來，讓大家以後不必在這個臺上再爭議這種浪費時間的事情，好嗎？可以嗎？我相信你的專業，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們絕對可以做，我們現在已經在處理這個……"],["張委員嘉郡：你把它白紙黑字寫下來，未來我們就照著這個標準下去爭取，好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：我們也希望這樣子。"],["張委員嘉郡：好，辛苦了，謝謝。"],["陳部長駿季：我們一起努力，謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請蔡易餘委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-18","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","邱志偉","林俊憲","郭國文","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-21"],"gazette_id":"1146802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及交通部首長就「丹娜絲颱風及0708豪雨災損及回復\n情形」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146802_00001"}}}