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那個吊車外面不知道有車啦不知道有車就無法去處理那些電條的關係所以這邊比較抱歉對港府的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 341.437, \"end\": 341.677, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 341.677, \"end\": 341.898, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 341.898, \"end\": 342.038, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 342.038, \"end\": 342.218, \"score\": 0.902}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 342.218, \"end\": 342.598, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 342.598, \"end\": 342.738, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 342.738, \"end\": 342.919, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 342.919, \"end\": 343.059, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 343.059, \"end\": 343.219, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 343.219, \"end\": 343.459, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 343.459, \"end\": 343.579, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 343.579, 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{\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 970.308, \"end\": 970.688, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"徹\"}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 970.688, \"end\": 970.848, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"解\", \"start\": 970.848, \"end\": 971.248, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"決\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 971.248, \"end\": 971.409, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 971.409, \"end\": 971.509, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 971.509, \"end\": 971.849, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 971.849, \"end\": 971.989, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 971.989, \"end\": 972.609, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"欠\", \"start\": 972.609, \"end\": 972.749, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 972.749, \"end\": 972.769, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 973.73, \"end\": 973.79, \"score\": 0.643}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 973.79, \"end\": 973.81, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"楊\"}, {\"word\": \"瓊\"}, {\"word\": \"英\", \"start\": 973.81, \"end\": 973.83, \"score\": 0.001}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:12,327 --> 00:00:20,788\n謝謝謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部部長跟我們台電的董事長鄭董事長董事長好部長好那部長這一次這一個颱風那\n\n2\n00:00:34,349 --> 00:00:40,116\n大概我的選區是最重的災區但是我們這邊台電的斷桿攔腰斷掉的這些電線桿超過1450根所以以斷桿的數量來說我們甚至比台南還多\n\n3\n00:00:51,070 --> 00:01:10,066\n那如果以停電的戶數來說,因為台電在嘉義是嘉義區處嘛,所以我們單市嘉義就有25萬戶的停電嘉義市有10萬戶,加克萊斯35萬戶停電的量能是需要被修復的,這個也是在以單一區處來說也是全國居冠\n\n4\n00:01:11,155 --> 00:01:26,071\n所以我也是覺得在這一次的這個斷桿那造成的這樣停電的一個狀況我覺得我們應該是學到了很多SOP我已經我第三天的時候那當署長曾董事長打給我\n\n5\n00:01:26,992 --> 00:01:48,724\n那打給我咧,他跟我反映了一件事情,就是說台電的很多的工班,事實上他們在清理這些斷桿,花了太多的時間。所以我去電話中,我就跟董事長達成一個默契,就是由我這邊來調用民間的一些大型機具,包括怪獸啦,包括夾娃車啦,我們去打斷桿移除。\n\n6\n00:01:51,905 --> 00:02:11,779\n讓台電專業可以附電可以拉電線桿的台電人員專心去附電我們來移除電線桿所以在這樣的一個默契之下事實上整個進度是推進很多但是在於處理這個電線桿的時候我們也是遇到障礙遇到什麼障礙就是我們的人不敢去把電線打斷\n\n7\n00:02:15,522 --> 00:02:35,074\n所以我們後來還是要請台電再派出一組造作真空油壓檢測先去把這個這個入贓的一個排除但是所以這個事實上都是一個我從這裡學到的一些經驗那當然我們這後來再加速了整個\n\n8\n00:02:36,134 --> 00:03:05,043\n台電的附電過程這個加速的過程我看到事實上台電的員工包括外包商的員工每天都嚴重的超時工作所以後來在役主發生了這一個台電的員工他可能過於疲勞然後有一些在附電應該要注意的狀況可能他沒有確認好事實上那個高壓電是有電的然後去觸摸到高壓電然後造成他現在還是昏平的狀況\n\n9\n00:03:05,843 --> 00:03:26,910\n所以這件事我們真的很感厚所以我想要跟部長跟總董事長來反映的就是說這次台電復電的人來協助復電的人這麼辛苦每天都這樣超時的工作事實上他們每天付出的都遠超於說這段時間他們可能有加班的一些狀況都遠超過了啦\n\n10\n00:03:28,450 --> 00:03:32,433\n所以我是覺得這個應該要列一個專案獎金來給不管是台電我們正職來協助復電的或者是這些外包的一些實際來參與復電的那應該要編一條專案獎金然後要來感謝他們可以在10天尤其我昨天又看到一個新聞說\n\n11\n00:03:49,806 --> 00:04:13,134\n我們嘉義最後以護平生用電也完成復電看到新聞都覺得很高興也很感謝可是我覺得感謝之餘我們應該要有具體的作為讓這一些來協助復電的人讓他們會覺得說他們替國家替我們南部地區來復電是有一定的一些大家對他們的一些表示的好不好\n\n12\n00:04:14,554 --> 00:04:36,722\n是謝謝委員我想這一次也讓委員幫助很多那我們台電在復電的這個過程裡面單獨靠台電我們自己的專業的人是不夠的所以我在這個整個的救災的過程裡面也跟這個台電的同仁一起開會那我們也一直想怎麼樣讓我們的國人能夠早一天有電\n\n13\n00:04:37,862 --> 00:04:45,590\n那事實上台電為什麼一直到最後比較晚復電我們到現場去看大概就可以了解大部分\n\n14\n00:04:46,570 --> 00:05:11,183\n末端的這些支線的部分其實都是要經過非常大的空曠的餘溫那這個電就是說都是在洋場小徑上面電條都在那裡燈在那裡所以在附電很困難附電的難度太高了昨天我也去新聞的那個我知道\n\n15\n00:05:11,883 --> 00:05:39,603\n那個我一看啦那個場子106個這個足球場那麼大那個你說業者我去問業者業者說他要清兩個月我說這個兩個月大概太久了所以我們昨天也開會一直討論討論也藝足鄉的鄉長也跳出來跟我們講我們終於有把握應該在月底之前我們就可以努力把它這個處理完\n\n16\n00:05:41,437 --> 00:05:54,029\n這一個是非常難那個地方主要是沒有車樓我們的舊港府車都大隻的但是那個路線小條那個吊車外面不知道有車啦不知道有車就無法去處理那些電條的關係所以這邊比較抱歉對港府的\n\n17\n00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:22,764\n國人啊,我們護電有比較慢,不過這個給我們一個新的核心就是說以後我們可以用這個上電的部分,不一定是台電先去上電我們可以用其他的方法,譬如說用這個儲能櫃或者是我們調這個這個發電機,升來給這個我們的國人啊,他需要,他可以\n\n18\n00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:58,308\n可以有水有這個通行因為沒電就這些都沒有嘛所以這是我們最大的學習啦好部長我覺得這個當然是未來我們要怎麼做啦不然我剛才說的就是說這次台電的復電他們是有功的是我希望不斷地我們會一定會以後這個我們也會改善啦但是對這一次他們願因為他也很急啦因為當年超時\n\n19\n00:06:59,688 --> 00:07:25,847\n超時我們也跟他講說這個我們還是要按照這個標準來請他們休息但是他講說哎呀嘴部長他們心裡想要趕快復健所以事實上雖然超時可是你看面對那麼多鄉親大家鄉親看到他們來就大家挖過就大家說我等一下要上來那個是人的心態所以他們主人都會假面很多時間體力的負荷是真的是非常大這個我們這一次也會深刻的檢討當然也謝謝委員\n\n20\n00:07:28,088 --> 00:07:50,928\n我們一定會加狀來對他們給他們一些這個一個比較能夠持平的獎勵啦這個獎勵一定是高貴的好那先讓我們交通部交通部次長來那我們部長可以經濟部可以先回台電請先回\n\n21\n00:07:58,406 --> 00:08:15,511\n市長這一次的風災還是有看出事實上交通部包括我覺得你們要跟速發部然後要跟NCC要檢討因為就是這次風災來然後電費條等所以很多人附掛在電感上的那些電信公司的纜線也一併的\n\n22\n00:08:17,872 --> 00:08:36,283\n一併的壞掉,然後很多基地台直接摧毀了,所以信號是不好的那這個大家也都可以理解,所以你們也出動了很多叫做行動基地台,行動基地台基本上就是靠低軌衛星嘛但是低軌衛星卻在前三天發揮不了作用,為什麼?雲層太厚\n\n23\n00:08:38,188 --> 00:08:58,641\n打不上去所以連低軌衛星也派不出用場所以很多作戰指揮中心包括各地的公所包括台電在地方的一些一個修繕點的哇電費都沒辦法這件事情凸顯的是說我們電信設備的整體的韌性是不足的所以部長這件事是需要檢討的\n\n24\n00:08:59,522 --> 00:09:26,292\n是我跟委員報告這個這一部分呢當然現在國家有關通訊的部分是由這個NCC或蘇華部在處理或是剛才講到的這種低軌衛星等等是他們在協調調度啦那這一部分呢我想我們會來跟他們再來看我覺得你們再檢討一下啦好不好這件事因為我在前三天的時候我看到很多公所他們儘管已經派了行動基地車在外面\n\n25\n00:09:26,872 --> 00:09:53,286\n他們還是一樣沒有訊號是我們看怎麼樣來表示說技術上還是有很多遇到天然情況不同的時候遇到瓶頸連行動基地車來了也沒有用基地台的恢復當然更是曠日廢死所以這件事情是需要被檢討的是我們已經有發現在災害來臨的時候電的恢復跟通訊是一個很重要的這兩件事都很重要好不好所以這個要來我最後再請農業部長\n\n26\n00:09:56,192 --> 00:10:13,844\n陳部長市長先回部長事實上在我這邊的數據在7月18號5點為止全國的農損台南目前是第一名就45%嘉義縣是第二名是7億多\n\n27\n00:10:15,485 --> 00:10:40,672\n是第二名佔了20幾%所以當然剛剛有不同委員去主張台南的狀況但是不要因此說我們嘉義的農損沒有他們嚴重我們也是好嚴重我們嘉義至少是在7月18的時候我們一直都是整體的災損是第二排名第二目前看起來也還是第二嚴重的啦所以嘉義這一次確實有很大的農損那而且剛剛事實上你在講這個第二預備金的狀況\n\n28\n00:10:42,412 --> 00:11:04,053\n以前第二預備金大概跟行政院報合訂就有了未來可能還要經過立法院同意所以剛才瑪麗說的可能要對因為被砍了這個九千萬未來我們第二預備金的調動會出現障礙的時候我們應該預作準備這件事所以部長我們應該要先這個要先正視一下我想趁這個機會再次跟委員說明其實我們歷次的說明\n\n29\n00:11:05,234 --> 00:11:33,460\n過往我們的委員會包括院會都不會針對我們那個公務撥補基金的這個費用因為公務撥補基金一旦任何的刪減的時候那基金本身的預算就不能動之二倍金那同樣的因為基金我們每一年基金都會超支並決算但是一個非常重要的超支並決算也是要報非常多的程序所以過往有很多二倍金可以第一時間就能夠\n\n30\n00:11:34,060 --> 00:11:51,781\n事實上過往都有動用到二倍金啦所以今年想像上因為今年才到七月會有困擾這個我覺得要預作準備啦好不好那我要跟部長講因為我們這一次不斷的對我們很多農民去跟他說我們這一次的對他們的一個幫忙勒我們會從寬從簡從素\n\n31\n00:11:55,264 --> 00:12:11,231\n有這些都告訴他們但是我也是聽到很多心聲比方比方就是說我們現在有很多那一種畜牧業就是說它企業企業它還是現代化它有建築執照現代化的它當然就可以\n\n32\n00:12:11,791 --> 00:12:26,637\n就可以去申請我們相對應的補助但是有一些畜牧業類他是傳統的家庭所以他們只有過去的叫做續養的一個許可他們並沒有這樣的一個死罩那他們會不會被排除於在這一次他們也是一樣處庭都沒了\n\n33\n00:12:29,738 --> 00:12:52,313\n然後裡面的積液都死掉了那這個有辦法去拿到補助嗎我跟委員說明包括我們的謝昭偉也非常關心畜牧業的部分那畜牧業基本上因為依天然災害救助辦法裡面都必須要合法的所以在現在的規定是沒辦法但是我們用補助的角度去處理所以補助的時候就沒有去區分它\n\n34\n00:12:53,093 --> 00:13:01,502\n他的一個過往是不是有登記或沒登記而且我們把畜牧業的這些將屋頂吹掉的大家重建的時候用五層拉到八層那其實五層拉到八層的時候其實某個角度來看的話部長你的意思是說你用補助的角度來來替代救助替代救助所以他們就有辦法\n\n35\n00:13:15,237 --> 00:13:40,651\n還是有辦法雖然說他們可能是比較老式的這一次對我們也希望說趁這個機會把老式的這些東西能夠更新那更新的部分從原來的五成加變成八成那不夠的部分他還可以用專那個貸款的方式來處理所以這樣的話農民在資金上的需求就不會那麼緊張市長部長這千百行很多行我就說一行像比方說\n\n36\n00:13:41,992 --> 00:13:57,565\n在我們現在針對很多農業的部分都有補助啦但是對農企業這一塊感覺上就會有一些不足那我要舉的例子就是說他還是要做治療創業他一樣喔他的治療創業他一樣他的治療湯全部都蒸熟了所以他的治療也都不好啊\n\n37\n00:14:02,690 --> 00:14:21,051\n所以基本上也都要移除所以移除也困難那後續上在申請補助的時候他們也會說你看那一些稻穀的倉庫公糧委託倉庫有補助像他們做飼料的卻沒有所以又會有一些落差存在部長這個部分是不是我們可不可以再盤一下\n\n38\n00:14:22,612 --> 00:14:41,824\n對謝謝委員的關心那農企業是這一次我特別去處理的因為我一直認為農企業特別是跟一級生產有關的農企業他其實是跟農民有高度的這些所謂的關聯或者是他的夥伴關係所以我這一次特別把農企業的\n\n39\n00:14:43,045 --> 00:15:09,460\n過往不補助的變成這次有補助50%那以蘭花來講因為蘭花現在是提出來比較多的蘭花的強固型溫室過往是沒補助的那現在可以得到50%的補助最高是900萬那您所說的這些飼料種或其他的如果他的企業還有很多深度的其他的產品跟農業無關的那很抱歉因為他是多角化經營我沒辦法處理但是我們鎖定在他們農業的這一塊\n\n40\n00:15:12,041 --> 00:15:28,212\n如果是小型因為大型的這些飼料廠他都有他的母公司有沒有還有很多包括他的加工產品啊這個就很難但是如果是小型的這些飼料廠的時候那我們可以來規劃我可以請畜牧師來盤點一下好那這部分我們再盤點再來解答一下原則上就是跟一級生產有關的農企業我們會盡量來協助\n\n41\n00:15:33,595 --> 00:15:50,513\n那因為朝委也在催啦齁我直接講給內政部聽啦剛剛一直在講說這個修屋頂齁事實上你不管國軍或是替代役他們都不會修屋頂啦他們不是修屋頂的專業所以你們應該要去跟勞動部去跟他們檢討啦有沒有辦法讓那一些移工\n\n42\n00:15:51,494 --> 00:16:12,769\n由工程界的移工讓他們可以讓這些移工來協助修屋頂因為現在欠缸所以欠缸的部分你在跟工程界的移工來溝通替代於不會修屋頂你叫他一堆人去那裡大家也是不知道一定都會要求彭博要求彭博沒辦法徹底解決這是第一個第二個欠了\n\n43\n00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:13,830\n我們現在請楊瓊英\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n12327\t20788\t謝謝謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部部長跟我們台電的董事長鄭董事長董事長好部長好那部長這一次這一個颱風那\n34349\t40116\t大概我的選區是最重的災區但是我們這邊台電的斷桿攔腰斷掉的這些電線桿超過1450根所以以斷桿的數量來說我們甚至比台南還多\n51070\t70066\t那如果以停電的戶數來說,因為台電在嘉義是嘉義區處嘛,所以我們單市嘉義就有25萬戶的停電嘉義市有10萬戶,加克萊斯35萬戶停電的量能是需要被修復的,這個也是在以單一區處來說也是全國居冠\n71155\t86071\t所以我也是覺得在這一次的這個斷桿那造成的這樣停電的一個狀況我覺得我們應該是學到了很多SOP我已經我第三天的時候那當署長曾董事長打給我\n86992\t108724\t那打給我咧,他跟我反映了一件事情,就是說台電的很多的工班,事實上他們在清理這些斷桿,花了太多的時間。所以我去電話中,我就跟董事長達成一個默契,就是由我這邊來調用民間的一些大型機具,包括怪獸啦,包括夾娃車啦,我們去打斷桿移除。\n111905\t131779\t讓台電專業可以附電可以拉電線桿的台電人員專心去附電我們來移除電線桿所以在這樣的一個默契之下事實上整個進度是推進很多但是在於處理這個電線桿的時候我們也是遇到障礙遇到什麼障礙就是我們的人不敢去把電線打斷\n135522\t155074\t所以我們後來還是要請台電再派出一組造作真空油壓檢測先去把這個這個入贓的一個排除但是所以這個事實上都是一個我從這裡學到的一些經驗那當然我們這後來再加速了整個\n156134\t185043\t台電的附電過程這個加速的過程我看到事實上台電的員工包括外包商的員工每天都嚴重的超時工作所以後來在役主發生了這一個台電的員工他可能過於疲勞然後有一些在附電應該要注意的狀況可能他沒有確認好事實上那個高壓電是有電的然後去觸摸到高壓電然後造成他現在還是昏平的狀況\n185843\t206910\t所以這件事我們真的很感厚所以我想要跟部長跟總董事長來反映的就是說這次台電復電的人來協助復電的人這麼辛苦每天都這樣超時的工作事實上他們每天付出的都遠超於說這段時間他們可能有加班的一些狀況都遠超過了啦\n208450\t212433\t所以我是覺得這個應該要列一個專案獎金來給不管是台電我們正職來協助復電的或者是這些外包的一些實際來參與復電的那應該要編一條專案獎金然後要來感謝他們可以在10天尤其我昨天又看到一個新聞說\n229806\t253134\t我們嘉義最後以護平生用電也完成復電看到新聞都覺得很高興也很感謝可是我覺得感謝之餘我們應該要有具體的作為讓這一些來協助復電的人讓他們會覺得說他們替國家替我們南部地區來復電是有一定的一些大家對他們的一些表示的好不好\n254554\t276722\t是謝謝委員我想這一次也讓委員幫助很多那我們台電在復電的這個過程裡面單獨靠台電我們自己的專業的人是不夠的所以我在這個整個的救災的過程裡面也跟這個台電的同仁一起開會那我們也一直想怎麼樣讓我們的國人能夠早一天有電\n277862\t285590\t那事實上台電為什麼一直到最後比較晚復電我們到現場去看大概就可以了解大部分\n286570\t311183\t末端的這些支線的部分其實都是要經過非常大的空曠的餘溫那這個電就是說都是在洋場小徑上面電條都在那裡 燈在那裡所以在附電很困難附電的難度太高了昨天我也去新聞的那個我知道\n311883\t339603\t那個我一看啦那個場子106個這個足球場那麼大那個你說業者 我去問業者業者說他要清兩個月我說這個兩個月大概太久了所以我們昨天也開會一直討論討論也藝足鄉的鄉長也跳出來跟我們講我們終於有把握應該在月底之前我們就可以努力把它這個處理完\n341437\t354029\t這一個是非常難 那個地方主要是沒有車樓我們的舊港府車都大隻的但是那個路線小條 那個吊車外面不知道有車啦不知道有車就無法去處理那些電條的關係所以這邊比較抱歉對港府的\n366000\t382764\t國人啊,我們護電有比較慢,不過這個給我們一個新的核心就是說以後我們可以用這個上電的部分,不一定是台電先去上電我們可以用其他的方法,譬如說用這個儲能櫃或者是我們調這個這個發電機,升來給這個我們的國人啊,他需要,他可以\n390800\t418308\t可以有水 有這個通行因為沒電就這些都沒有嘛所以這是我們最大的學習啦好 部長我覺得這個當然是未來我們要怎麼做啦不然我剛才說的就是說這次台電的復電 他們是有功的是 我希望不斷地我們會 一定會以後這個我們也會改善啦但是對這一次他們願因為他也很急啦因為當年超時\n419688\t445847\t超時我們也跟他講說這個我們還是要按照這個標準來請他們休息但是他講說 哎呀 嘴部長 他們心裡想要趕快復健所以事實上雖然超時可是你看面對那麼多鄉親大家鄉親看到他們來就大家挖過就大家說我等一下要上來那個是人的心態所以他們主人都會假面很多時間體力的負荷是真的是非常大這個我們這一次也會深刻的檢討當然也謝謝委員\n448088\t470928\t我們一定會加狀來對他們給他們一些這個一個比較能夠持平的獎勵啦這個獎勵一定是高貴的好 那先讓我們交通部交通部次長來那我們部長可以經濟部可以先回台電請先回\n478406\t495511\t市長這一次的風災還是有看出 事實上交通部包括我覺得你們要跟速發部然後要跟NCC要檢討因為就是這次風災來然後電費條等所以很多人附掛在電感上的那些電信公司的纜線也一併的\n497872\t516283\t一併的壞掉,然後很多基地台直接摧毀了,所以信號是不好的那這個大家也都可以理解,所以你們也出動了很多叫做行動基地台,行動基地台基本上就是靠低軌衛星嘛但是低軌衛星卻在前三天發揮不了作用,為什麼?雲層太厚\n518188\t538641\t打不上去所以連低軌衛星也派不出用場所以很多作戰指揮中心包括各地的公所包括台電在地方的一些一個修繕點的哇 電費都沒辦法這件事情凸顯的是說我們電信設備的整體的韌性是不足的所以部長這件事是需要檢討的\n539522\t566292\t是 我跟委員報告 這個這一部分呢當然現在國家有關通訊的部分是由這個NCC或蘇華部在處理或是剛才講到的這種低軌衛星等等是他們在協調調度啦那這一部分呢 我想我們會來跟他們再來看我覺得你們再檢討一下啦好不好這件事 因為我在前三天的時候我看到很多公所他們儘管已經派了行動基地車在外面\n566872\t593286\t他們還是一樣沒有訊號是 我們看怎麼樣來表示說技術上還是有很多遇到天然情況不同的時候遇到瓶頸連行動基地車來了也沒有用基地台的恢復當然更是曠日廢死所以這件事情是需要被檢討的是 我們已經有發現在災害來臨的時候電的恢復跟通訊是一個很重要的這兩件事都很重要好不好所以這個要來 我最後再請農業部長\n596192\t613844\t陳部長 市長先回部長 事實上在我這邊的數據在7月18號5點為止 全國的農損台南目前是第一名就45%嘉義縣是第二名 是7億多\n615485\t640672\t是第二名 佔了20幾%所以當然剛剛有不同委員去主張台南的狀況但是不要因此說我們嘉義的農損沒有他們嚴重我們也是好嚴重我們嘉義至少是在7月18的時候我們一直都是整體的災損是第二 排名第二目前看起來也還是第二嚴重的啦所以嘉義這一次確實有很大的農損那而且剛剛事實上你在講這個第二預備金的狀況\n642412\t664053\t以前第二預備金大概跟行政院報合訂就有了未來可能還要經過立法院同意所以剛才瑪麗說的可能要對因為被砍了這個九千萬未來我們第二預備金的調動會出現障礙的時候我們應該預作準備這件事所以部長我們應該要先這個要先正視一下我想趁這個機會再次跟委員說明其實我們歷次的說明\n665234\t693460\t過往我們的委員會包括院會都不會針對我們那個公務撥補基金的這個費用因為公務撥補基金一旦任何的刪減的時候那基金本身的預算就不能動之二倍金那同樣的因為基金我們每一年基金都會超支並決算但是一個非常重要的超支並決算也是要報非常多的程序所以過往有很多二倍金可以第一時間就能夠\n694060\t711781\t事實上過往都有動用到二倍金啦所以今年想像上因為今年才到七月會有困擾這個我覺得要預作準備啦好不好那我要跟部長講因為我們這一次不斷的對我們很多農民去跟他說我們這一次的對他們的一個幫忙勒我們會從寬從簡從素\n715264\t731231\t有這些都告訴他們但是我也是聽到很多心聲比方比方就是說我們現在有很多那一種畜牧業就是說它企業企業它還是現代化它有建築執照現代化的它當然就可以\n731791\t746637\t就可以去申請我們相對應的補助但是有一些畜牧業類他是傳統的家庭所以他們只有過去的叫做續養的一個許可他們並沒有這樣的一個死罩那他們會不會被排除於在這一次他們也是一樣處庭都沒了\n749738\t772313\t然後裡面的積液都死掉了那這個有辦法去拿到補助嗎我跟委員說明包括我們的謝昭偉也非常關心畜牧業的部分那畜牧業基本上因為依天然災害救助辦法裡面都必須要合法的所以在現在的規定是沒辦法但是我們用補助的角度去處理所以補助的時候就沒有去區分它\n773093\t781502\t他的一個過往是不是有登記或沒登記而且我們把畜牧業的這些將屋頂吹掉的大家重建的時候用五層拉到八層那其實五層拉到八層的時候其實某個角度來看的話部長你的意思是說你用補助的角度來來替代救助替代救助所以他們就有辦法\n795237\t820651\t還是有辦法雖然說他們可能是比較老式的這一次對我們也希望說趁這個機會把老式的這些東西能夠更新那更新的部分從原來的五成加變成八成那不夠的部分他還可以用專那個貸款的方式來處理所以這樣的話農民在資金上的需求就不會那麼緊張市長部長這千百行很多行我就說一行像比方說\n821992\t837565\t在我們現在針對很多農業的部分都有補助啦但是對農企業這一塊感覺上就會有一些不足那我要舉的例子就是說他還是要做治療創業他一樣喔他的治療創業他一樣 他的治療湯全部都蒸熟了所以他的治療也都不好啊\n842690\t861051\t所以基本上也都要移除 所以移除也困難那後續上在申請補助的時候 他們也會說你看那一些稻穀的倉庫 公糧委託倉庫有補助像他們做飼料的卻沒有所以又會有一些落差存在部長這個部分是不是我們可不可以再盤一下\n862612\t881824\t對 謝謝委員的關心那農企業是這一次我特別去處理的因為我一直認為農企業特別是跟一級生產有關的農企業他其實是跟農民有高度的這些所謂的關聯或者是他的夥伴關係所以我這一次特別把農企業的\n883045\t909460\t過往不補助的變成這次有補助50%那以蘭花來講因為蘭花現在是提出來比較多的蘭花的強固型溫室過往是沒補助的那現在可以得到50%的補助最高是900萬那您所說的這些飼料種或其他的如果他的企業還有很多深度的其他的產品跟農業無關的那很抱歉因為他是多角化經營我沒辦法處理但是我們鎖定在他們農業的這一塊\n912041\t928212\t如果是小型因為大型的這些飼料廠他都有他的母公司有沒有還有很多包括他的加工產品啊這個就很難但是如果是小型的這些飼料廠的時候那我們可以來規劃我可以請畜牧師來盤點一下好那這部分我們再盤點再來解答一下原則上就是跟一級生產有關的農企業我們會盡量來協助\n933595\t950513\t那因為朝委也在催啦齁我直接講給內政部聽啦剛剛一直在講說這個修屋頂齁事實上你不管國軍或是替代役他們都不會修屋頂啦他們不是修屋頂的專業所以你們應該要去跟勞動部去跟他們檢討啦有沒有辦法讓那一些移工\n951494\t972769\t由工程界的移工讓他們可以讓這些移工來協助修屋頂因為現在欠缸所以欠缸的部分你在跟工程界的移工來溝通替代於不會修屋頂你叫他一堆人去那裡大家也是不知道一定都會要求彭博要求彭博沒辦法徹底解決這是第一個第二個欠了\n973730\t973830\t我們現在請楊瓊英\n","txt":"謝謝謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部部長跟我們台電的董事長鄭董事長董事長好部長好那部長這一次這一個颱風那\n大概我的選區是最重的災區但是我們這邊台電的斷桿攔腰斷掉的這些電線桿超過1450根所以以斷桿的數量來說我們甚至比台南還多\n那如果以停電的戶數來說,因為台電在嘉義是嘉義區處嘛,所以我們單市嘉義就有25萬戶的停電嘉義市有10萬戶,加克萊斯35萬戶停電的量能是需要被修復的,這個也是在以單一區處來說也是全國居冠\n所以我也是覺得在這一次的這個斷桿那造成的這樣停電的一個狀況我覺得我們應該是學到了很多SOP我已經我第三天的時候那當署長曾董事長打給我\n那打給我咧,他跟我反映了一件事情,就是說台電的很多的工班,事實上他們在清理這些斷桿,花了太多的時間。所以我去電話中,我就跟董事長達成一個默契,就是由我這邊來調用民間的一些大型機具,包括怪獸啦,包括夾娃車啦,我們去打斷桿移除。\n讓台電專業可以附電可以拉電線桿的台電人員專心去附電我們來移除電線桿所以在這樣的一個默契之下事實上整個進度是推進很多但是在於處理這個電線桿的時候我們也是遇到障礙遇到什麼障礙就是我們的人不敢去把電線打斷\n所以我們後來還是要請台電再派出一組造作真空油壓檢測先去把這個這個入贓的一個排除但是所以這個事實上都是一個我從這裡學到的一些經驗那當然我們這後來再加速了整個\n台電的附電過程這個加速的過程我看到事實上台電的員工包括外包商的員工每天都嚴重的超時工作所以後來在役主發生了這一個台電的員工他可能過於疲勞然後有一些在附電應該要注意的狀況可能他沒有確認好事實上那個高壓電是有電的然後去觸摸到高壓電然後造成他現在還是昏平的狀況\n所以這件事我們真的很感厚所以我想要跟部長跟總董事長來反映的就是說這次台電復電的人來協助復電的人這麼辛苦每天都這樣超時的工作事實上他們每天付出的都遠超於說這段時間他們可能有加班的一些狀況都遠超過了啦\n所以我是覺得這個應該要列一個專案獎金來給不管是台電我們正職來協助復電的或者是這些外包的一些實際來參與復電的那應該要編一條專案獎金然後要來感謝他們可以在10天尤其我昨天又看到一個新聞說\n我們嘉義最後以護平生用電也完成復電看到新聞都覺得很高興也很感謝可是我覺得感謝之餘我們應該要有具體的作為讓這一些來協助復電的人讓他們會覺得說他們替國家替我們南部地區來復電是有一定的一些大家對他們的一些表示的好不好\n是謝謝委員我想這一次也讓委員幫助很多那我們台電在復電的這個過程裡面單獨靠台電我們自己的專業的人是不夠的所以我在這個整個的救災的過程裡面也跟這個台電的同仁一起開會那我們也一直想怎麼樣讓我們的國人能夠早一天有電\n那事實上台電為什麼一直到最後比較晚復電我們到現場去看大概就可以了解大部分\n末端的這些支線的部分其實都是要經過非常大的空曠的餘溫那這個電就是說都是在洋場小徑上面電條都在那裡 燈在那裡所以在附電很困難附電的難度太高了昨天我也去新聞的那個我知道\n那個我一看啦那個場子106個這個足球場那麼大那個你說業者 我去問業者業者說他要清兩個月我說這個兩個月大概太久了所以我們昨天也開會一直討論討論也藝足鄉的鄉長也跳出來跟我們講我們終於有把握應該在月底之前我們就可以努力把它這個處理完\n這一個是非常難 那個地方主要是沒有車樓我們的舊港府車都大隻的但是那個路線小條 那個吊車外面不知道有車啦不知道有車就無法去處理那些電條的關係所以這邊比較抱歉對港府的\n國人啊,我們護電有比較慢,不過這個給我們一個新的核心就是說以後我們可以用這個上電的部分,不一定是台電先去上電我們可以用其他的方法,譬如說用這個儲能櫃或者是我們調這個這個發電機,升來給這個我們的國人啊,他需要,他可以\n可以有水 有這個通行因為沒電就這些都沒有嘛所以這是我們最大的學習啦好 部長我覺得這個當然是未來我們要怎麼做啦不然我剛才說的就是說這次台電的復電 他們是有功的是 我希望不斷地我們會 一定會以後這個我們也會改善啦但是對這一次他們願因為他也很急啦因為當年超時\n超時我們也跟他講說這個我們還是要按照這個標準來請他們休息但是他講說 哎呀 嘴部長 他們心裡想要趕快復健所以事實上雖然超時可是你看面對那麼多鄉親大家鄉親看到他們來就大家挖過就大家說我等一下要上來那個是人的心態所以他們主人都會假面很多時間體力的負荷是真的是非常大這個我們這一次也會深刻的檢討當然也謝謝委員\n我們一定會加狀來對他們給他們一些這個一個比較能夠持平的獎勵啦這個獎勵一定是高貴的好 那先讓我們交通部交通部次長來那我們部長可以經濟部可以先回台電請先回\n市長這一次的風災還是有看出 事實上交通部包括我覺得你們要跟速發部然後要跟NCC要檢討因為就是這次風災來然後電費條等所以很多人附掛在電感上的那些電信公司的纜線也一併的\n一併的壞掉,然後很多基地台直接摧毀了,所以信號是不好的那這個大家也都可以理解,所以你們也出動了很多叫做行動基地台,行動基地台基本上就是靠低軌衛星嘛但是低軌衛星卻在前三天發揮不了作用,為什麼?雲層太厚\n打不上去所以連低軌衛星也派不出用場所以很多作戰指揮中心包括各地的公所包括台電在地方的一些一個修繕點的哇 電費都沒辦法這件事情凸顯的是說我們電信設備的整體的韌性是不足的所以部長這件事是需要檢討的\n是 我跟委員報告 這個這一部分呢當然現在國家有關通訊的部分是由這個NCC或蘇華部在處理或是剛才講到的這種低軌衛星等等是他們在協調調度啦那這一部分呢 我想我們會來跟他們再來看我覺得你們再檢討一下啦好不好這件事 因為我在前三天的時候我看到很多公所他們儘管已經派了行動基地車在外面\n他們還是一樣沒有訊號是 我們看怎麼樣來表示說技術上還是有很多遇到天然情況不同的時候遇到瓶頸連行動基地車來了也沒有用基地台的恢復當然更是曠日廢死所以這件事情是需要被檢討的是 我們已經有發現在災害來臨的時候電的恢復跟通訊是一個很重要的這兩件事都很重要好不好所以這個要來 我最後再請農業部長\n陳部長 市長先回部長 事實上在我這邊的數據在7月18號5點為止 全國的農損台南目前是第一名就45%嘉義縣是第二名 是7億多\n是第二名 佔了20幾%所以當然剛剛有不同委員去主張台南的狀況但是不要因此說我們嘉義的農損沒有他們嚴重我們也是好嚴重我們嘉義至少是在7月18的時候我們一直都是整體的災損是第二 排名第二目前看起來也還是第二嚴重的啦所以嘉義這一次確實有很大的農損那而且剛剛事實上你在講這個第二預備金的狀況\n以前第二預備金大概跟行政院報合訂就有了未來可能還要經過立法院同意所以剛才瑪麗說的可能要對因為被砍了這個九千萬未來我們第二預備金的調動會出現障礙的時候我們應該預作準備這件事所以部長我們應該要先這個要先正視一下我想趁這個機會再次跟委員說明其實我們歷次的說明\n過往我們的委員會包括院會都不會針對我們那個公務撥補基金的這個費用因為公務撥補基金一旦任何的刪減的時候那基金本身的預算就不能動之二倍金那同樣的因為基金我們每一年基金都會超支並決算但是一個非常重要的超支並決算也是要報非常多的程序所以過往有很多二倍金可以第一時間就能夠\n事實上過往都有動用到二倍金啦所以今年想像上因為今年才到七月會有困擾這個我覺得要預作準備啦好不好那我要跟部長講因為我們這一次不斷的對我們很多農民去跟他說我們這一次的對他們的一個幫忙勒我們會從寬從簡從素\n有這些都告訴他們但是我也是聽到很多心聲比方比方就是說我們現在有很多那一種畜牧業就是說它企業企業它還是現代化它有建築執照現代化的它當然就可以\n就可以去申請我們相對應的補助但是有一些畜牧業類他是傳統的家庭所以他們只有過去的叫做續養的一個許可他們並沒有這樣的一個死罩那他們會不會被排除於在這一次他們也是一樣處庭都沒了\n然後裡面的積液都死掉了那這個有辦法去拿到補助嗎我跟委員說明包括我們的謝昭偉也非常關心畜牧業的部分那畜牧業基本上因為依天然災害救助辦法裡面都必須要合法的所以在現在的規定是沒辦法但是我們用補助的角度去處理所以補助的時候就沒有去區分它\n他的一個過往是不是有登記或沒登記而且我們把畜牧業的這些將屋頂吹掉的大家重建的時候用五層拉到八層那其實五層拉到八層的時候其實某個角度來看的話部長你的意思是說你用補助的角度來來替代救助替代救助所以他們就有辦法\n還是有辦法雖然說他們可能是比較老式的這一次對我們也希望說趁這個機會把老式的這些東西能夠更新那更新的部分從原來的五成加變成八成那不夠的部分他還可以用專那個貸款的方式來處理所以這樣的話農民在資金上的需求就不會那麼緊張市長部長這千百行很多行我就說一行像比方說\n在我們現在針對很多農業的部分都有補助啦但是對農企業這一塊感覺上就會有一些不足那我要舉的例子就是說他還是要做治療創業他一樣喔他的治療創業他一樣 他的治療湯全部都蒸熟了所以他的治療也都不好啊\n所以基本上也都要移除 所以移除也困難那後續上在申請補助的時候 他們也會說你看那一些稻穀的倉庫 公糧委託倉庫有補助像他們做飼料的卻沒有所以又會有一些落差存在部長這個部分是不是我們可不可以再盤一下\n對 謝謝委員的關心那農企業是這一次我特別去處理的因為我一直認為農企業特別是跟一級生產有關的農企業他其實是跟農民有高度的這些所謂的關聯或者是他的夥伴關係所以我這一次特別把農企業的\n過往不補助的變成這次有補助50%那以蘭花來講因為蘭花現在是提出來比較多的蘭花的強固型溫室過往是沒補助的那現在可以得到50%的補助最高是900萬那您所說的這些飼料種或其他的如果他的企業還有很多深度的其他的產品跟農業無關的那很抱歉因為他是多角化經營我沒辦法處理但是我們鎖定在他們農業的這一塊\n如果是小型因為大型的這些飼料廠他都有他的母公司有沒有還有很多包括他的加工產品啊這個就很難但是如果是小型的這些飼料廠的時候那我們可以來規劃我可以請畜牧師來盤點一下好那這部分我們再盤點再來解答一下原則上就是跟一級生產有關的農企業我們會盡量來協助\n那因為朝委也在催啦齁我直接講給內政部聽啦剛剛一直在講說這個修屋頂齁事實上你不管國軍或是替代役他們都不會修屋頂啦他們不是修屋頂的專業所以你們應該要去跟勞動部去跟他們檢討啦有沒有辦法讓那一些移工\n由工程界的移工讓他們可以讓這些移工來協助修屋頂因為現在欠缸所以欠缸的部分你在跟工程界的移工來溝通替代於不會修屋頂你叫他一堆人去那裡大家也是不知道一定都會要求彭博要求彭博沒辦法徹底解決這是第一個第二個欠了\n我們現在請楊瓊英\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:12.327 --> 00:20.788\n謝謝謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部部長跟我們台電的董事長鄭董事長董事長好部長好那部長這一次這一個颱風那\n\n00:34.349 --> 00:40.116\n大概我的選區是最重的災區但是我們這邊台電的斷桿攔腰斷掉的這些電線桿超過1450根所以以斷桿的數量來說我們甚至比台南還多\n\n00:51.070 --> 01:10.066\n那如果以停電的戶數來說,因為台電在嘉義是嘉義區處嘛,所以我們單市嘉義就有25萬戶的停電嘉義市有10萬戶,加克萊斯35萬戶停電的量能是需要被修復的,這個也是在以單一區處來說也是全國居冠\n\n01:11.155 --> 01:26.071\n所以我也是覺得在這一次的這個斷桿那造成的這樣停電的一個狀況我覺得我們應該是學到了很多SOP我已經我第三天的時候那當署長曾董事長打給我\n\n01:26.992 --> 01:48.724\n那打給我咧,他跟我反映了一件事情,就是說台電的很多的工班,事實上他們在清理這些斷桿,花了太多的時間。所以我去電話中,我就跟董事長達成一個默契,就是由我這邊來調用民間的一些大型機具,包括怪獸啦,包括夾娃車啦,我們去打斷桿移除。\n\n01:51.905 --> 02:11.779\n讓台電專業可以附電可以拉電線桿的台電人員專心去附電我們來移除電線桿所以在這樣的一個默契之下事實上整個進度是推進很多但是在於處理這個電線桿的時候我們也是遇到障礙遇到什麼障礙就是我們的人不敢去把電線打斷\n\n02:15.522 --> 02:35.074\n所以我們後來還是要請台電再派出一組造作真空油壓檢測先去把這個這個入贓的一個排除但是所以這個事實上都是一個我從這裡學到的一些經驗那當然我們這後來再加速了整個\n\n02:36.134 --> 03:05.043\n台電的附電過程這個加速的過程我看到事實上台電的員工包括外包商的員工每天都嚴重的超時工作所以後來在役主發生了這一個台電的員工他可能過於疲勞然後有一些在附電應該要注意的狀況可能他沒有確認好事實上那個高壓電是有電的然後去觸摸到高壓電然後造成他現在還是昏平的狀況\n\n03:05.843 --> 03:26.910\n所以這件事我們真的很感厚所以我想要跟部長跟總董事長來反映的就是說這次台電復電的人來協助復電的人這麼辛苦每天都這樣超時的工作事實上他們每天付出的都遠超於說這段時間他們可能有加班的一些狀況都遠超過了啦\n\n03:28.450 --> 03:32.433\n所以我是覺得這個應該要列一個專案獎金來給不管是台電我們正職來協助復電的或者是這些外包的一些實際來參與復電的那應該要編一條專案獎金然後要來感謝他們可以在10天尤其我昨天又看到一個新聞說\n\n03:49.806 --> 04:13.134\n我們嘉義最後以護平生用電也完成復電看到新聞都覺得很高興也很感謝可是我覺得感謝之餘我們應該要有具體的作為讓這一些來協助復電的人讓他們會覺得說他們替國家替我們南部地區來復電是有一定的一些大家對他們的一些表示的好不好\n\n04:14.554 --> 04:36.722\n是謝謝委員我想這一次也讓委員幫助很多那我們台電在復電的這個過程裡面單獨靠台電我們自己的專業的人是不夠的所以我在這個整個的救災的過程裡面也跟這個台電的同仁一起開會那我們也一直想怎麼樣讓我們的國人能夠早一天有電\n\n04:37.862 --> 04:45.590\n那事實上台電為什麼一直到最後比較晚復電我們到現場去看大概就可以了解大部分\n\n04:46.570 --> 05:11.183\n末端的這些支線的部分其實都是要經過非常大的空曠的餘溫那這個電就是說都是在洋場小徑上面電條都在那裡燈在那裡所以在附電很困難附電的難度太高了昨天我也去新聞的那個我知道\n\n05:11.883 --> 05:39.603\n那個我一看啦那個場子106個這個足球場那麼大那個你說業者我去問業者業者說他要清兩個月我說這個兩個月大概太久了所以我們昨天也開會一直討論討論也藝足鄉的鄉長也跳出來跟我們講我們終於有把握應該在月底之前我們就可以努力把它這個處理完\n\n05:41.437 --> 05:54.029\n這一個是非常難那個地方主要是沒有車樓我們的舊港府車都大隻的但是那個路線小條那個吊車外面不知道有車啦不知道有車就無法去處理那些電條的關係所以這邊比較抱歉對港府的\n\n06:06.000 --> 06:22.764\n國人啊,我們護電有比較慢,不過這個給我們一個新的核心就是說以後我們可以用這個上電的部分,不一定是台電先去上電我們可以用其他的方法,譬如說用這個儲能櫃或者是我們調這個這個發電機,升來給這個我們的國人啊,他需要,他可以\n\n06:30.800 --> 06:58.308\n可以有水有這個通行因為沒電就這些都沒有嘛所以這是我們最大的學習啦好部長我覺得這個當然是未來我們要怎麼做啦不然我剛才說的就是說這次台電的復電他們是有功的是我希望不斷地我們會一定會以後這個我們也會改善啦但是對這一次他們願因為他也很急啦因為當年超時\n\n06:59.688 --> 07:25.847\n超時我們也跟他講說這個我們還是要按照這個標準來請他們休息但是他講說哎呀嘴部長他們心裡想要趕快復健所以事實上雖然超時可是你看面對那麼多鄉親大家鄉親看到他們來就大家挖過就大家說我等一下要上來那個是人的心態所以他們主人都會假面很多時間體力的負荷是真的是非常大這個我們這一次也會深刻的檢討當然也謝謝委員\n\n07:28.088 --> 07:50.928\n我們一定會加狀來對他們給他們一些這個一個比較能夠持平的獎勵啦這個獎勵一定是高貴的好那先讓我們交通部交通部次長來那我們部長可以經濟部可以先回台電請先回\n\n07:58.406 --> 08:15.511\n市長這一次的風災還是有看出事實上交通部包括我覺得你們要跟速發部然後要跟NCC要檢討因為就是這次風災來然後電費條等所以很多人附掛在電感上的那些電信公司的纜線也一併的\n\n08:17.872 --> 08:36.283\n一併的壞掉,然後很多基地台直接摧毀了,所以信號是不好的那這個大家也都可以理解,所以你們也出動了很多叫做行動基地台,行動基地台基本上就是靠低軌衛星嘛但是低軌衛星卻在前三天發揮不了作用,為什麼?雲層太厚\n\n08:38.188 --> 08:58.641\n打不上去所以連低軌衛星也派不出用場所以很多作戰指揮中心包括各地的公所包括台電在地方的一些一個修繕點的哇電費都沒辦法這件事情凸顯的是說我們電信設備的整體的韌性是不足的所以部長這件事是需要檢討的\n\n08:59.522 --> 09:26.292\n是我跟委員報告這個這一部分呢當然現在國家有關通訊的部分是由這個NCC或蘇華部在處理或是剛才講到的這種低軌衛星等等是他們在協調調度啦那這一部分呢我想我們會來跟他們再來看我覺得你們再檢討一下啦好不好這件事因為我在前三天的時候我看到很多公所他們儘管已經派了行動基地車在外面\n\n09:26.872 --> 09:53.286\n他們還是一樣沒有訊號是我們看怎麼樣來表示說技術上還是有很多遇到天然情況不同的時候遇到瓶頸連行動基地車來了也沒有用基地台的恢復當然更是曠日廢死所以這件事情是需要被檢討的是我們已經有發現在災害來臨的時候電的恢復跟通訊是一個很重要的這兩件事都很重要好不好所以這個要來我最後再請農業部長\n\n09:56.192 --> 10:13.844\n陳部長市長先回部長事實上在我這邊的數據在7月18號5點為止全國的農損台南目前是第一名就45%嘉義縣是第二名是7億多\n\n10:15.485 --> 10:40.672\n是第二名佔了20幾%所以當然剛剛有不同委員去主張台南的狀況但是不要因此說我們嘉義的農損沒有他們嚴重我們也是好嚴重我們嘉義至少是在7月18的時候我們一直都是整體的災損是第二排名第二目前看起來也還是第二嚴重的啦所以嘉義這一次確實有很大的農損那而且剛剛事實上你在講這個第二預備金的狀況\n\n10:42.412 --> 11:04.053\n以前第二預備金大概跟行政院報合訂就有了未來可能還要經過立法院同意所以剛才瑪麗說的可能要對因為被砍了這個九千萬未來我們第二預備金的調動會出現障礙的時候我們應該預作準備這件事所以部長我們應該要先這個要先正視一下我想趁這個機會再次跟委員說明其實我們歷次的說明\n\n11:05.234 --> 11:33.460\n過往我們的委員會包括院會都不會針對我們那個公務撥補基金的這個費用因為公務撥補基金一旦任何的刪減的時候那基金本身的預算就不能動之二倍金那同樣的因為基金我們每一年基金都會超支並決算但是一個非常重要的超支並決算也是要報非常多的程序所以過往有很多二倍金可以第一時間就能夠\n\n11:34.060 --> 11:51.781\n事實上過往都有動用到二倍金啦所以今年想像上因為今年才到七月會有困擾這個我覺得要預作準備啦好不好那我要跟部長講因為我們這一次不斷的對我們很多農民去跟他說我們這一次的對他們的一個幫忙勒我們會從寬從簡從素\n\n11:55.264 --> 12:11.231\n有這些都告訴他們但是我也是聽到很多心聲比方比方就是說我們現在有很多那一種畜牧業就是說它企業企業它還是現代化它有建築執照現代化的它當然就可以\n\n12:11.791 --> 12:26.637\n就可以去申請我們相對應的補助但是有一些畜牧業類他是傳統的家庭所以他們只有過去的叫做續養的一個許可他們並沒有這樣的一個死罩那他們會不會被排除於在這一次他們也是一樣處庭都沒了\n\n12:29.738 --> 12:52.313\n然後裡面的積液都死掉了那這個有辦法去拿到補助嗎我跟委員說明包括我們的謝昭偉也非常關心畜牧業的部分那畜牧業基本上因為依天然災害救助辦法裡面都必須要合法的所以在現在的規定是沒辦法但是我們用補助的角度去處理所以補助的時候就沒有去區分它\n\n12:53.093 --> 13:01.502\n他的一個過往是不是有登記或沒登記而且我們把畜牧業的這些將屋頂吹掉的大家重建的時候用五層拉到八層那其實五層拉到八層的時候其實某個角度來看的話部長你的意思是說你用補助的角度來來替代救助替代救助所以他們就有辦法\n\n13:15.237 --> 13:40.651\n還是有辦法雖然說他們可能是比較老式的這一次對我們也希望說趁這個機會把老式的這些東西能夠更新那更新的部分從原來的五成加變成八成那不夠的部分他還可以用專那個貸款的方式來處理所以這樣的話農民在資金上的需求就不會那麼緊張市長部長這千百行很多行我就說一行像比方說\n\n13:41.992 --> 13:57.565\n在我們現在針對很多農業的部分都有補助啦但是對農企業這一塊感覺上就會有一些不足那我要舉的例子就是說他還是要做治療創業他一樣喔他的治療創業他一樣他的治療湯全部都蒸熟了所以他的治療也都不好啊\n\n14:02.690 --> 14:21.051\n所以基本上也都要移除所以移除也困難那後續上在申請補助的時候他們也會說你看那一些稻穀的倉庫公糧委託倉庫有補助像他們做飼料的卻沒有所以又會有一些落差存在部長這個部分是不是我們可不可以再盤一下\n\n14:22.612 --> 14:41.824\n對謝謝委員的關心那農企業是這一次我特別去處理的因為我一直認為農企業特別是跟一級生產有關的農企業他其實是跟農民有高度的這些所謂的關聯或者是他的夥伴關係所以我這一次特別把農企業的\n\n14:43.045 --> 15:09.460\n過往不補助的變成這次有補助50%那以蘭花來講因為蘭花現在是提出來比較多的蘭花的強固型溫室過往是沒補助的那現在可以得到50%的補助最高是900萬那您所說的這些飼料種或其他的如果他的企業還有很多深度的其他的產品跟農業無關的那很抱歉因為他是多角化經營我沒辦法處理但是我們鎖定在他們農業的這一塊\n\n15:12.041 --> 15:28.212\n如果是小型因為大型的這些飼料廠他都有他的母公司有沒有還有很多包括他的加工產品啊這個就很難但是如果是小型的這些飼料廠的時候那我們可以來規劃我可以請畜牧師來盤點一下好那這部分我們再盤點再來解答一下原則上就是跟一級生產有關的農企業我們會盡量來協助\n\n15:33.595 --> 15:50.513\n那因為朝委也在催啦齁我直接講給內政部聽啦剛剛一直在講說這個修屋頂齁事實上你不管國軍或是替代役他們都不會修屋頂啦他們不是修屋頂的專業所以你們應該要去跟勞動部去跟他們檢討啦有沒有辦法讓那一些移工\n\n15:51.494 --> 16:12.769\n由工程界的移工讓他們可以讓這些移工來協助修屋頂因為現在欠缸所以欠缸的部分你在跟工程界的移工來溝通替代於不會修屋頂你叫他一堆人去那裡大家也是不知道一定都會要求彭博要求彭博沒辦法徹底解決這是第一個第二個欠了\n\n16:13.730 --> 16:13.830\n我們現在請楊瓊英\n\n","segments":[{"start":12.327,"end":20.788,"text":"謝謝謝謝主席那我們是不是有請經濟部部長跟我們台電的董事長鄭董事長董事長好部長好那部長這一次這一個颱風那"},{"start":34.349,"end":40.116,"text":"大概我的選區是最重的災區但是我們這邊台電的斷桿攔腰斷掉的這些電線桿超過1450根所以以斷桿的數量來說我們甚至比台南還多"},{"start":51.07,"end":70.066,"text":"那如果以停電的戶數來說,因為台電在嘉義是嘉義區處嘛,所以我們單市嘉義就有25萬戶的停電嘉義市有10萬戶,加克萊斯35萬戶停電的量能是需要被修復的,這個也是在以單一區處來說也是全國居冠"},{"start":71.155,"end":86.071,"text":"所以我也是覺得在這一次的這個斷桿那造成的這樣停電的一個狀況我覺得我們應該是學到了很多SOP我已經我第三天的時候那當署長曾董事長打給我"},{"start":86.992,"end":108.724,"text":"那打給我咧,他跟我反映了一件事情,就是說台電的很多的工班,事實上他們在清理這些斷桿,花了太多的時間。所以我去電話中,我就跟董事長達成一個默契,就是由我這邊來調用民間的一些大型機具,包括怪獸啦,包括夾娃車啦,我們去打斷桿移除。"},{"start":111.905,"end":131.779,"text":"讓台電專業可以附電可以拉電線桿的台電人員專心去附電我們來移除電線桿所以在這樣的一個默契之下事實上整個進度是推進很多但是在於處理這個電線桿的時候我們也是遇到障礙遇到什麼障礙就是我們的人不敢去把電線打斷"},{"start":135.522,"end":155.074,"text":"所以我們後來還是要請台電再派出一組造作真空油壓檢測先去把這個這個入贓的一個排除但是所以這個事實上都是一個我從這裡學到的一些經驗那當然我們這後來再加速了整個"},{"start":156.134,"end":185.043,"text":"台電的附電過程這個加速的過程我看到事實上台電的員工包括外包商的員工每天都嚴重的超時工作所以後來在役主發生了這一個台電的員工他可能過於疲勞然後有一些在附電應該要注意的狀況可能他沒有確認好事實上那個高壓電是有電的然後去觸摸到高壓電然後造成他現在還是昏平的狀況"},{"start":185.843,"end":206.91,"text":"所以這件事我們真的很感厚所以我想要跟部長跟總董事長來反映的就是說這次台電復電的人來協助復電的人這麼辛苦每天都這樣超時的工作事實上他們每天付出的都遠超於說這段時間他們可能有加班的一些狀況都遠超過了啦"},{"start":208.45,"end":212.433,"text":"所以我是覺得這個應該要列一個專案獎金來給不管是台電我們正職來協助復電的或者是這些外包的一些實際來參與復電的那應該要編一條專案獎金然後要來感謝他們可以在10天尤其我昨天又看到一個新聞說"},{"start":229.806,"end":253.134,"text":"我們嘉義最後以護平生用電也完成復電看到新聞都覺得很高興也很感謝可是我覺得感謝之餘我們應該要有具體的作為讓這一些來協助復電的人讓他們會覺得說他們替國家替我們南部地區來復電是有一定的一些大家對他們的一些表示的好不好"},{"start":254.554,"end":276.722,"text":"是謝謝委員我想這一次也讓委員幫助很多那我們台電在復電的這個過程裡面單獨靠台電我們自己的專業的人是不夠的所以我在這個整個的救災的過程裡面也跟這個台電的同仁一起開會那我們也一直想怎麼樣讓我們的國人能夠早一天有電"},{"start":277.862,"end":285.59,"text":"那事實上台電為什麼一直到最後比較晚復電我們到現場去看大概就可以了解大部分"},{"start":286.57,"end":311.183,"text":"末端的這些支線的部分其實都是要經過非常大的空曠的餘溫那這個電就是說都是在洋場小徑上面電條都在那裡 燈在那裡所以在附電很困難附電的難度太高了昨天我也去新聞的那個我知道"},{"start":311.883,"end":339.603,"text":"那個我一看啦那個場子106個這個足球場那麼大那個你說業者 我去問業者業者說他要清兩個月我說這個兩個月大概太久了所以我們昨天也開會一直討論討論也藝足鄉的鄉長也跳出來跟我們講我們終於有把握應該在月底之前我們就可以努力把它這個處理完"},{"start":341.437,"end":354.029,"text":"這一個是非常難 那個地方主要是沒有車樓我們的舊港府車都大隻的但是那個路線小條 那個吊車外面不知道有車啦不知道有車就無法去處理那些電條的關係所以這邊比較抱歉對港府的"},{"start":366,"end":382.764,"text":"國人啊,我們護電有比較慢,不過這個給我們一個新的核心就是說以後我們可以用這個上電的部分,不一定是台電先去上電我們可以用其他的方法,譬如說用這個儲能櫃或者是我們調這個這個發電機,升來給這個我們的國人啊,他需要,他可以"},{"start":390.8,"end":418.308,"text":"可以有水 有這個通行因為沒電就這些都沒有嘛所以這是我們最大的學習啦好 部長我覺得這個當然是未來我們要怎麼做啦不然我剛才說的就是說這次台電的復電 他們是有功的是 我希望不斷地我們會 一定會以後這個我們也會改善啦但是對這一次他們願因為他也很急啦因為當年超時"},{"start":419.688,"end":445.847,"text":"超時我們也跟他講說這個我們還是要按照這個標準來請他們休息但是他講說 哎呀 嘴部長 他們心裡想要趕快復健所以事實上雖然超時可是你看面對那麼多鄉親大家鄉親看到他們來就大家挖過就大家說我等一下要上來那個是人的心態所以他們主人都會假面很多時間體力的負荷是真的是非常大這個我們這一次也會深刻的檢討當然也謝謝委員"},{"start":448.088,"end":470.928,"text":"我們一定會加狀來對他們給他們一些這個一個比較能夠持平的獎勵啦這個獎勵一定是高貴的好 那先讓我們交通部交通部次長來那我們部長可以經濟部可以先回台電請先回"},{"start":478.406,"end":495.511,"text":"市長這一次的風災還是有看出 事實上交通部包括我覺得你們要跟速發部然後要跟NCC要檢討因為就是這次風災來然後電費條等所以很多人附掛在電感上的那些電信公司的纜線也一併的"},{"start":497.872,"end":516.283,"text":"一併的壞掉,然後很多基地台直接摧毀了,所以信號是不好的那這個大家也都可以理解,所以你們也出動了很多叫做行動基地台,行動基地台基本上就是靠低軌衛星嘛但是低軌衛星卻在前三天發揮不了作用,為什麼?雲層太厚"},{"start":518.188,"end":538.641,"text":"打不上去所以連低軌衛星也派不出用場所以很多作戰指揮中心包括各地的公所包括台電在地方的一些一個修繕點的哇 電費都沒辦法這件事情凸顯的是說我們電信設備的整體的韌性是不足的所以部長這件事是需要檢討的"},{"start":539.522,"end":566.292,"text":"是 我跟委員報告 這個這一部分呢當然現在國家有關通訊的部分是由這個NCC或蘇華部在處理或是剛才講到的這種低軌衛星等等是他們在協調調度啦那這一部分呢 我想我們會來跟他們再來看我覺得你們再檢討一下啦好不好這件事 因為我在前三天的時候我看到很多公所他們儘管已經派了行動基地車在外面"},{"start":566.872,"end":593.286,"text":"他們還是一樣沒有訊號是 我們看怎麼樣來表示說技術上還是有很多遇到天然情況不同的時候遇到瓶頸連行動基地車來了也沒有用基地台的恢復當然更是曠日廢死所以這件事情是需要被檢討的是 我們已經有發現在災害來臨的時候電的恢復跟通訊是一個很重要的這兩件事都很重要好不好所以這個要來 我最後再請農業部長"},{"start":596.192,"end":613.844,"text":"陳部長 市長先回部長 事實上在我這邊的數據在7月18號5點為止 全國的農損台南目前是第一名就45%嘉義縣是第二名 是7億多"},{"start":615.485,"end":640.672,"text":"是第二名 佔了20幾%所以當然剛剛有不同委員去主張台南的狀況但是不要因此說我們嘉義的農損沒有他們嚴重我們也是好嚴重我們嘉義至少是在7月18的時候我們一直都是整體的災損是第二 排名第二目前看起來也還是第二嚴重的啦所以嘉義這一次確實有很大的農損那而且剛剛事實上你在講這個第二預備金的狀況"},{"start":642.412,"end":664.053,"text":"以前第二預備金大概跟行政院報合訂就有了未來可能還要經過立法院同意所以剛才瑪麗說的可能要對因為被砍了這個九千萬未來我們第二預備金的調動會出現障礙的時候我們應該預作準備這件事所以部長我們應該要先這個要先正視一下我想趁這個機會再次跟委員說明其實我們歷次的說明"},{"start":665.234,"end":693.46,"text":"過往我們的委員會包括院會都不會針對我們那個公務撥補基金的這個費用因為公務撥補基金一旦任何的刪減的時候那基金本身的預算就不能動之二倍金那同樣的因為基金我們每一年基金都會超支並決算但是一個非常重要的超支並決算也是要報非常多的程序所以過往有很多二倍金可以第一時間就能夠"},{"start":694.06,"end":711.781,"text":"事實上過往都有動用到二倍金啦所以今年想像上因為今年才到七月會有困擾這個我覺得要預作準備啦好不好那我要跟部長講因為我們這一次不斷的對我們很多農民去跟他說我們這一次的對他們的一個幫忙勒我們會從寬從簡從素"},{"start":715.264,"end":731.231,"text":"有這些都告訴他們但是我也是聽到很多心聲比方比方就是說我們現在有很多那一種畜牧業就是說它企業企業它還是現代化它有建築執照現代化的它當然就可以"},{"start":731.791,"end":746.637,"text":"就可以去申請我們相對應的補助但是有一些畜牧業類他是傳統的家庭所以他們只有過去的叫做續養的一個許可他們並沒有這樣的一個死罩那他們會不會被排除於在這一次他們也是一樣處庭都沒了"},{"start":749.738,"end":772.313,"text":"然後裡面的積液都死掉了那這個有辦法去拿到補助嗎我跟委員說明包括我們的謝昭偉也非常關心畜牧業的部分那畜牧業基本上因為依天然災害救助辦法裡面都必須要合法的所以在現在的規定是沒辦法但是我們用補助的角度去處理所以補助的時候就沒有去區分它"},{"start":773.093,"end":781.502,"text":"他的一個過往是不是有登記或沒登記而且我們把畜牧業的這些將屋頂吹掉的大家重建的時候用五層拉到八層那其實五層拉到八層的時候其實某個角度來看的話部長你的意思是說你用補助的角度來來替代救助替代救助所以他們就有辦法"},{"start":795.237,"end":820.651,"text":"還是有辦法雖然說他們可能是比較老式的這一次對我們也希望說趁這個機會把老式的這些東西能夠更新那更新的部分從原來的五成加變成八成那不夠的部分他還可以用專那個貸款的方式來處理所以這樣的話農民在資金上的需求就不會那麼緊張市長部長這千百行很多行我就說一行像比方說"},{"start":821.992,"end":837.565,"text":"在我們現在針對很多農業的部分都有補助啦但是對農企業這一塊感覺上就會有一些不足那我要舉的例子就是說他還是要做治療創業他一樣喔他的治療創業他一樣 他的治療湯全部都蒸熟了所以他的治療也都不好啊"},{"start":842.69,"end":861.051,"text":"所以基本上也都要移除 所以移除也困難那後續上在申請補助的時候 他們也會說你看那一些稻穀的倉庫 公糧委託倉庫有補助像他們做飼料的卻沒有所以又會有一些落差存在部長這個部分是不是我們可不可以再盤一下"},{"start":862.612,"end":881.824,"text":"對 謝謝委員的關心那農企業是這一次我特別去處理的因為我一直認為農企業特別是跟一級生產有關的農企業他其實是跟農民有高度的這些所謂的關聯或者是他的夥伴關係所以我這一次特別把農企業的"},{"start":883.045,"end":909.46,"text":"過往不補助的變成這次有補助50%那以蘭花來講因為蘭花現在是提出來比較多的蘭花的強固型溫室過往是沒補助的那現在可以得到50%的補助最高是900萬那您所說的這些飼料種或其他的如果他的企業還有很多深度的其他的產品跟農業無關的那很抱歉因為他是多角化經營我沒辦法處理但是我們鎖定在他們農業的這一塊"},{"start":912.041,"end":928.212,"text":"如果是小型因為大型的這些飼料廠他都有他的母公司有沒有還有很多包括他的加工產品啊這個就很難但是如果是小型的這些飼料廠的時候那我們可以來規劃我可以請畜牧師來盤點一下好那這部分我們再盤點再來解答一下原則上就是跟一級生產有關的農企業我們會盡量來協助"},{"start":933.595,"end":950.513,"text":"那因為朝委也在催啦齁我直接講給內政部聽啦剛剛一直在講說這個修屋頂齁事實上你不管國軍或是替代役他們都不會修屋頂啦他們不是修屋頂的專業所以你們應該要去跟勞動部去跟他們檢討啦有沒有辦法讓那一些移工"},{"start":951.494,"end":972.769,"text":"由工程界的移工讓他們可以讓這些移工來協助修屋頂因為現在欠缸所以欠缸的部分你在跟工程界的移工來溝通替代於不會修屋頂你叫他一堆人去那裡大家也是不知道一定都會要求彭博要求彭博沒辦法徹底解決這是第一個第二個欠了"},{"start":973.73,"end":973.83,"text":"我們現在請楊瓊英"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":646,"blocks":[["蔡委員易餘：（11時2分）謝謝主席，請經濟部部長和台電董事長。"],["主席：請郭部長和曾董事長。"],["郭部長智輝：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長好。部長，這一次這個颱風，大概我的選區是最重災區，攔腰斷掉的電線桿超過一千四百根，有一千四百五十幾根，以斷桿數量來說，我們甚至比臺南還多；如果以停電戶數來看，因為台電在嘉義是嘉義區處，這次嘉義單次就有25萬戶停電，嘉義市有10萬戶，加起來有35萬戶停電的量能需要被修復，這對單一區處來說，也是全國居冠。","對於這一次因斷桿造成停電的狀況，我覺得我們應該學到了很多SOP，我記得在第三天的時候，曾董事長打電話跟我反映一件事情，就是台電很多工班在清理斷桿上花了太多時間，所以後來在電話中我就跟董事長達成一個默契，由我這邊來調用民間一些大型機具，包括怪手、鋏仔車，先把斷桿移除，讓台電專業可以復電、可以拉電線桿的人員專心去復電，在這樣的默契之下，事實上整個進度推進很多，但是在處理這些電線桿的時候，我們也遇到很多障礙，遇到什麼障礙？就是我們的人不敢把電線剪斷，不敢嘛！所以後來還是要請台電再派出一組真空油壓剪車，那一組人就跟我們的怪手先把路障排除，事實上，我從這裡學到了一些經驗，當然，後來就加速了整個台電的復電過程，而在這個加速的過程中，我看到台電的員工，包括外包商的員工，每天都嚴重超時工作，以致後來在義竹發生了憾事，這位台電員工可能過於疲勞，然後有一些在復電時應該要注意的狀況，可能他沒有確認好，事實上那個電線是有電的，結果不小心觸摸到高壓電，造成他現在還是昏迷的狀況。對於這件事情我們真的感到很難過，所以我想要跟部長、曾董事長反映，這次這些台電復電人員和協助復電的人這麼辛苦，每天都超時工作，事實上，他們每天付出的都遠超過這段時間可能加班的一些狀況，都遠遠超過了，所以我覺得應該要編列專案獎金，不管是台電正職協助復電的員工，或者是外包實際參與復電的人員，應該要編列一筆專案獎金，感謝他們可以在10天……尤其我昨天又看到一則新聞，嘉義最後一戶民生用電也完成復電了，看到那個新聞我覺得很高興，也很感謝，感謝之餘，我覺得我們應該要有具體作為，讓這一些協助復電的人覺得他們替國家、替南部地區復電，大家對他們是有一定的感謝與表示，好不好？"],["郭部長智輝：是，謝謝委員，這一次也讓委員幫助很多。事實上，在復電的過程中，單靠台電自己專業的人是不夠的，所以在整個救災的過程，我也跟台電同仁一起開會討論，要怎麼樣讓國人可以早一天有電？而台電為什麼一直到最後比較晚復電？如果有到現場看，大概就可以了解，大部分末端的這些支線部分，其實是要經過非常大的、空曠的魚塭，就是這些電桿都是倒在羊腸小徑上，要復電很困難，那個復電的難度太高，昨天我也去新塭的那個……"],["蔡委員易餘：有，我知道。"],["郭部長智輝：我一看，那個場子有106個足球場那麼大，我問業者，業者說要清兩個月，我說兩個月太久了，所以我們昨天也一直開會討論，義竹鄉鄉長也跳出來參與討論，最後我們終於有把握應該在月底前可以努力把它處理完，這是非常難的，那個地方主要是沒有「跤路」，我們的工務車都是大車，但路那麼小條，吊車靠過去也沒辦法立足，這樣就沒辦法處理那些電桿的工作，所以這次比較不好意思，對嘉義的這些國人復電是有比較慢，不過這也給我們一個新的學習，就是以後送電的部分，不一定是台電先送電，我們可以用其他方法，比如用儲能櫃，或者是調發電機，讓有需要的國人先使用，這樣他們就可以有水、有通訊，因為沒有電力，這些也都沒辦法使用，所以這是我們很大的學習。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，當然這個是未來我們要怎麼做的問題，不過就像我剛才說的，這次的復電台電是有功的，我希望部長在這次……"],["郭部長智輝：是，這個以後我們也會改善，但是對這一次他們願意……因為他們也很急，當然就超時工作，我也跟他們講還是要按照標準來休息，但是他們講說……"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，他們心裡是想要趕快復電……"],["郭部長智輝：對，對。"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上雖然是超時，可是你看，面對那麼多鄉親，大家看到他們來就趕快靠過去跟他說我們的電什麼時候會來。"],["郭部長智輝：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：那個是人的心態，所以他們自然都會多拚一些時間，體力的負荷真的是非常大。"],["郭部長智輝：這個我們這一次也會深刻的檢討，當然也謝謝委員，我們一定會加重給他們一些……一個比較能夠持平的獎勵啦！這個獎勵一定是跟過去……"],["蔡委員易餘：好。那我們換交通部，交通部次長有來。"],["主席：陳次長。"],["蔡委員易餘：經濟部部長跟台電請先回。"],["陳次長彥伯：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：次長，這一次的風災還是，事實上我覺得交通部應該要跟數發部，然後要跟NCC檢討，因為這次颱風來，然後電線桿斷掉，所以很多你們附掛在電桿上的那一些電信公司的纜線也一併壞掉，很多基地台也直接吹壞了，所以訊號是不好的。這個大家也都可以理解，所以你們也出動了很多行動基地台，行動基地台基本上就是靠低軌衛星，但是低軌衛星卻在前三天發揮不了作用，為什麼？雲層太厚，打不上去，所以連低軌衛星也派不出用場，所以很多作戰指揮中心，包括各地的公所，包括台電在地方的一些修繕點，電話都沒辦法通，這件事情凸顯的是我們電信設備的整體韌性是不足的，所以次長，這件事是需要檢討的。"],["陳次長彥伯：是，我跟委員報告，現在國家有關通訊的部分，是由NCC或數發部在處理，或是剛才講到的這種低軌衛星等等，是他們在協調調度。那這一部分，我想我們會來跟他們再來看……"],["蔡委員易餘：我覺得你們再檢討一下啦！好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：因為我在前三天的時候，我看到很多公所，他們儘管已經派了行動基地車在外面，還是一樣沒有訊號。"],["陳次長彥伯：是，我們看怎麼樣來……"],["蔡委員易餘：這就表示技術上還是有很多……遇到天然災害情況不同的時候，遇到瓶頸，連行動基地車來了也沒有用，基地台的恢復更是曠日費時，所以這件事情是需要被檢討的，好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：是，我們已經有發現在災害來臨的時候，電的恢復跟通訊是很重要的。"],["蔡委員易餘：這兩件事都很重要，好不好？"],["陳次長彥伯：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：所以這個要檢討。我最後再請農業部長。"],["主席：陳部長。"],["蔡委員易餘：次長先回。"],["陳部長駿季：委員好。"],["蔡委員易餘：部長，事實上以我這邊的數據，到7月18號5點為止全國的農損，臺南目前是第一名，是45%，嘉義縣是第二名，是七億多，占了二十幾%。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：當然剛剛有不同委員去主張臺南的狀況，但是不要因此說我們嘉義的農損沒有他們嚴重，我們也是好嚴重。"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：我們嘉義至少在7月18號的時候，我們一直都是……"],["陳部長駿季：整體的災損是第二，排名第二。"],["蔡委員易餘：目前看起來也還是第二嚴重的，所以嘉義這一次確實有很大的農損。而且事實上剛剛你在講第二預備金的狀況，以前第二預備金大概跟行政院報核定就有了，未來可能還要經過立法院同意，所以剛才也有說到可能要對……因為被砍了9,000萬，未來我們第二預備金的調動會出現障礙的時候，我們應該預做準備，所以部長我們應該去正視一下。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我想趁這個機會，也再次跟委員說明，其實我們歷次的說明，過往我們的委員會包括院會，都不會針對我們公務撥補基金的費用，因為公務撥補基金一旦有任何刪減的時候，那基金本身的預算就不能動支二備金。同樣的，因為我們每一年基金都會超支併決算，但是一個非常重要的，超支併決算也是要報非常多的程序，所以過往有很多二備金可以第一時間就能夠……"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上過往都有動用到二備金，所以今年想像上……因為今年才到7月。"],["陳部長駿季：對，會比較困擾。"],["蔡委員易餘：這個部分我覺得要預做準備啦！好不好？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["蔡委員易餘：我要跟部長講，因為我們這一次不斷地對我們很多農民說，我們這一次對他們的幫忙會從寬、從簡、從速，這一些都告訴他們了，但是我也聽到很多心聲，比方我們現在有很多畜牧業，就是說他養雞，如果是現代化，有建築執照的，他當然就可以去申請相對應的補助。但是有一些畜牧業是傳統的雞場，所以他們只有過去叫做畜養的許可，他們並沒有這樣的使照，那他們會不會被排除於這一次……他們也是一樣屋頂都沒有了，然後裡面的雞也都死掉了，這個有辦法去拿到補助嗎？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，包括我們的謝召委也非常關心畜牧業的部分，畜牧業基本上因為依天然災害救助辦法裡面都必須是合法的，所以在現在的規定是沒辦法，但是我們用補助的角度去處理，所以補助的時候就沒有去區分它過往是不是有登記或沒登記，而且我們把畜牧業的這些像屋頂被吹掉的，大家重建的時候由五成拉到八成，其實五成拉到八成的時候，某個角度來看的話……"],["蔡委員易餘：所以部長你的意思是說，你用補助的角度來介入？"],["陳部長駿季：來替代救助。"],["蔡委員易餘：替代救助，所以他們就有辦法……"],["陳部長駿季：還是有辦法可以……"],["蔡委員易餘：雖然他們可能是比較老式的，這一次損壞了。"],["陳部長駿季：對，我們也希望趁這個機會，把老式的這些東西能夠更新，那更新的部分從原來的五成變成八成，不夠的部分還可以用貸款的方式來處理，所以這樣的話，農民在資金上的需求就不會那麼緊張。"],["蔡委員易餘：事實上部長，這有千百樣很多項，我再說一項，像比方說我們現在針對很多農業的部分都有補助，但是對農企業這一塊感覺上就會有一些不足，那我要舉的例子就是說，他如果是做飼料廠的，他的飼料廠也是一樣，那些飼料桶全部都被吹壞了，所以他們那些飼料也都沒用了，也都泡到水了，所以基本上也都要移除，因此移除也困難，後續上在申請補助的時候，他們也會說那一些稻穀的倉庫、公糧委託倉庫有補助，像他們做飼料的卻沒有，所以又會有一些落差存在。部長，這個部分你們可不可以再盤一下？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的關心，農企業是這一次我特別去處理的，因為我一直認為農企業，特別是跟一級生產有關的農企業，它其實是跟農民有高度的關聯或者是夥伴關係，所以我這次特別把過往不補助的農企業，變成這次有補助50%。以蘭花來講，因為蘭花現在是提出來比較多的，蘭花的強固型溫室過往是沒補助的，現在可以得到50%的補助，最高是900萬。那您所說的這些飼料桶或其他的，如果他的企業還有很多其他產品跟農業無關的，很抱歉，因為他是多角化經營，我沒辦法處理，但是……"],["蔡委員易餘：當然，我們鎖定在他們農業的這一塊。"],["陳部長駿季：對，如果是小型的，因為大型的這些飼料廠都有其母公司，還有很多包括他的加工產品，這個就很難，但是如果是小型的這些飼料廠的時候，那我們可以來規劃，我可以請畜牧司來盤點一下。"],["蔡委員易餘：好，這部分我們再盤點、再來檢討。"],["陳部長駿季：原則上就是跟一級生產有關的農企業，我們會儘量來協助。"],["蔡委員易餘：因為召委在催，我直接講給內政部聽，剛剛一直在講說修屋頂，事實上不管是國軍或替代役，他們都不會修屋頂，他們不是修屋頂的專業，所以你們應該要去跟勞動部他們檢討有沒有辦法讓那一些移工，由工程界的移工……請他們可以讓這些移工來協助修屋頂，因為現在缺工，所以缺工的部分你們要跟工程界的移工來溝通，替代役不會修屋頂，你叫他們一堆人去那邊，大家也是不知道怎麼做，他們頂多是會拉帆布，但拉帆布沒辦法澈底解決，這是第一個。第二個是缺料，我不知道現在臺灣還有在生產傳統三合院的那種瓦片嗎？不知道，看起來會叫不到料。如果是傳統的鐵皮，那當然是比較單純，但是也都漲價了。缺料、缺工這種事情沒辦法用國軍跟替代役來……他們就是不會，沒有這個專業，誰敢去修啊！好不好？這個要趕快想辦法，好不好？"],["主席：好，謝謝。","我們現在請楊瓊瓔委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":84,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-18","speakers":["謝衣鳯","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","張嘉郡","蔡易餘","楊瓊瓔","陳超明","邱志偉","林俊憲","郭國文","黃國昌","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林岱樺","陳亭妃","呂玉玲","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-07-21"],"gazette_id":"1146802","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1146802_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請經濟部部長、農業部部長、內政部首長及交通部首長就「丹娜絲颱風及0708豪雨災損及回復\n情形」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1146802_00001"}}}