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\"end\": 648.719, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"切\", \"start\": 648.719, \"end\": 648.859, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 648.859, \"end\": 648.98, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"掌\", \"start\": 648.98, \"end\": 649.2, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"控\", \"start\": 649.2, \"end\": 649.66, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 649.66, \"end\": 649.74, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 649.74, \"end\": 649.76, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 649.76, \"end\": 649.86, \"score\": 0.797}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 649.86, \"end\": 650.061, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 650.061, \"end\": 650.121, \"score\": 0.663}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 650.121, \"end\": 650.201, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 650.201, \"end\": 650.221, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"賴\"}, {\"word\": \"瑞\", \"start\": 650.221, \"end\": 650.241, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"榮\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 650.241, \"end\": 650.261, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 650.261, \"end\": 650.281, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 662.434, \"end\": 662.614, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 662.614, \"end\": 662.774, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 662.774, \"end\": 662.915, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 662.915, \"end\": 662.935, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}, {\"word\": \"劉\"}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"偉\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,311 --> 00:00:31,923\n謝謝主席我是不是請一下國發會主委主委早主委早主委這個我想您今天準備的這個報告的內容我不曉得你有沒有看了一下他的題目是什麼我們今天來\n\n2\n00:00:33,089 --> 00:00:41,296\n主席排定的議程的題目是什麼你知道嗎談的是未來經濟未來的經濟狀況你看到是後面我看的是前面\n\n3\n00:00:42,694 --> 00:01:10,841\n他的主軸是美國對等關稅抵定之後目前還沒有抵定是嗎好所以你這一份報告內容寫的是抵定之後對於台灣的未來景氣跟全球佈局的規劃對不對那現在你剛剛一直在講剛剛楊卓英委員一直問您你一直講關稅還沒有談定確實關稅是還沒有談定所以在關稅還沒有談定之前您今天的報告的內容\n\n4\n00:01:12,416 --> 00:01:34,241\n會跟國內的整個局勢跟關稅抵定之後的報告內容會有什麼差異我讓您補充說明一下因為你現在這個題目設定是在關稅抵定之後的發展跟規劃關稅還沒有談定之前會有什麼差別我認為抵定之後所有的景氣跟數字會更好\n\n5\n00:01:35,100 --> 00:01:53,796\n你認為關稅抵定之後景氣跟數字會更好對的你為什麼會有這樣的信心這個主委我想要談一下因為大家都對於台灣的關稅能夠降到多少其實有非常高的期待從4月份講到美國這個總統講32一直到上個禮拜的20\n\n6\n00:01:57,639 --> 00:02:06,466\n但是日韓是15所以有很多在野黨的委員啊或者是有很多人士就來批評說那台灣談的成績並不好但是我們現在告訴大家這個是暫時性的很多人認為說這個是台灣棠色的政府棠色的語言\n\n7\n00:02:15,493 --> 00:02:36,909\n所以他到底是不是暫時性到底還有沒有繼續再談繼續談的空間在哪裡包括川普在今天的清晨台灣的時間清晨講到要對半導體開徵100%的關稅除非在美設廠這一句是很重要很多的媒體只有講前面一段就是要對半導體開徵100%\n\n8\n00:02:39,051 --> 00:02:58,055\n但是在美設廠這一件事情是很重要所以這個如果整個語句完整來看的話對於台積電的影響是什麼台積電看起來應該是沒有影響因為台積電未來是要在美國設廠但是對於台灣其他的半導體的業者來說\n\n9\n00:03:00,379 --> 00:03:14,365\n可能會有影響那會不會加劇他們往美國去投資的這個方向你們的評估報告裡頭有沒有包含這個部分主委我讓你說明一下這個部分其實現在台\n\n10\n00:03:15,846 --> 00:03:32,404\n它是設廠跟承諾設廠那我們現在有幾種設廠方式以台積電是直接去建廠像中美金是併購透過併購在德州另外我們也看到聯電跟Intel有一些合作案\n\n11\n00:03:33,505 --> 00:04:01,161\n我的經驗他也可以透過這個合作的方式來取得關稅的界面對去合作那剩下的部分要有承諾那承諾的部分就看大家但是我們之前曾經跟這些廠商做過一次座談他們認為台灣的競爭力是夠強的那如果今天大家都在一樣的關稅基礎下以現在來看是大家都在100億的情況下其實大家的競爭是一致的\n\n12\n00:04:01,972 --> 00:04:17,417\n所以你認為台灣的競爭力是夠強所以不用擔心這個所謂現在的半導體開徵100%對我認為第一名如果都擔心第二名就會害怕好主委但是我想要更進一步請教根據美國的這個貿易擴張法第232條這個\n\n13\n00:04:22,299 --> 00:04:46,097\n你雖然現在講說我們的半導體業者其實是不用擔心但是其他跟這個所謂的美國國安或者是產業安全有相關的這一些產業甚至或者是有裝有晶片的產品未來是不是都有可能被課到稅所以這個有可能包含筆電伺服器手機網通設備網路通訊設備跟家電等等\n\n14\n00:04:49,179 --> 00:05:02,872\n這一些有沒有可能會在232條的這個限制之下未來他有可能被課到高的這個關稅那就這個部分政府有什麼因應的措施或者是你們有什麼研判這個部分的確\n\n15\n00:05:05,615 --> 00:05:30,055\n這幾個現在是列在232還沒有公告所以我們現在做了兩個方案一個是短期短期緊急的時候只能像進急診室一樣我們是應急的方案我目前是編列了951的特別預算希望能夠通過但是我個人的看法如果這個再加劇到含晶片之終端設備的話那我們可能要擴大我們的特別預算\n\n16\n00:05:31,275 --> 00:05:53,046\n所以你說擴大特別預算是擴大我們的這個產業韌性的這個條例的預算嗎那第二個部分是中長期的部分中長期的部分就是當產業面臨這個就要開始進行佈局的轉型那我們現在國家政策本來就希望例如台灣這個佈局全球那我們也會協助廠商盡量去做全球的佈局去分散它的風險或者是降低它的風險\n\n17\n00:05:53,946 --> 00:06:21,896\n那我們現在也有一個完整的計畫在已經準備好了那我們可以有實時公告我們已經送抱怨了所以在短期、中期、長期我們目前是有因應的做法那但是會不會這個會不會有影響呢還是要影響有多少還是要看最後的公告那它現在是沒有公告因為它這裡面牽扯兩件事情這幾個產品是在豁免清單就在WTO豁免清單裡面\n\n18\n00:06:22,876 --> 00:06:50,705\n那在232裡面他會怎麼因應這還是一個所以這個還是很大的不確定性所以那你們有沒有設定一個底線當然我知道在談判的過程裡頭很多的底線是不能現在對外說那你們有沒有設定一個什麼樣的底線或者是說找這一些廠商這一些業者來大家共同討論一下聽一下他們的心聲他們在現在面臨到這樣未來有可能被課稅或者是說\n\n19\n00:06:51,465 --> 00:07:08,727\n整體現在的這個關稅的衝擊狀態之下政府有沒有充分的了解掌握廠商的心聲甚至我們有沒有設下一個什麼樣的底線是在跟美方在做談判的時候雙方其實是可以\n\n20\n00:07:09,764 --> 00:07:38,620\n是的有的我們有抓住至少對於我們自己廠商的保護那個底線有沒有抓住有的那大部分以SERVER來講大部分的廠商都是比較大型的那我們可以看到在上半年我們面對到墨西哥我們成長了200%多那因為主要是大家的SERVER廠現在放在墨西哥那主要是USDNA那可以得到保障那第二個部分是我的了解大家現在開始往達拉斯開始在進行佈局\n\n21\n00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:58,439\n那因為這樣的關係經濟部也去談了那目前在談什麼呢談希望能夠讓台商在達拉斯德州的布局裡面得以免週稅那目前是得到州長的回應那眾議院也有通過現在是等他的參議院州參議院通過\n\n22\n00:07:59,219 --> 00:08:24,974\n所以這些我們都積極在協助大家往這條路走那中小型的企業目前他們的想法是因為它規模比較小那去的話是不是能變成一個整合型的公司就產業控股公司過去那這樣的話本來這種小公司要單獨去面對政府會很麻煩那合併成一家公司公司變成部門的話就比較容易或是集團那所以呢我們也修訂了這個企業併購法\n\n23\n00:08:26,495 --> 00:08:42,910\n讓這些廠商在併購的過程中沒有成本增加在五年的寬限期本來是併購會要繳稅那現在併購沒有繳稅所以他們可以進行合併然後到海外發展因為他需要比較大的資本所以這些我們都有做好規劃跟業者都溝通過\n\n24\n00:08:43,462 --> 00:08:55,414\n主委我再問一個小問題那至於藥品呢生技產業有沒有列入你們的保護清單裡頭現在藥品要被課到未來有可能會被課到250%的稅那生技生技的這個這個生技的產業\n\n25\n00:08:59,137 --> 00:09:14,468\n有沒有列入你們的所謂的保護清單裡頭就生技的部分因為我們剛剛一直談的大概都是跟半導體有關生技產業的部分呢我們的短中期跟我剛才談的我們免週稅這些都是沒有產業的限制的\n\n26\n00:09:14,968 --> 00:09:43,654\n都是沒有產業限制的我們是所有的產業都要保護啦所以我們所有的產業都把它納入那至於未來可能會被課高關稅的部分其實你的保護力道或者是你的輔導力道應該是要再更加強而且我們已經有一個清單以您提的這個製藥業來講有哪些在美國有佈局的我們現在清單都在手上那有一些沒有的它的外銷比重比例這個經濟部也都整理出來了好\n\n27\n00:09:44,634 --> 00:10:09,148\n那目前都在手上好主委因為我的時間已經到我也不要耽誤大家太多時間但是我想國發會在對於整個在關稅的談判的這個過程裡面所有的追蹤管考跟對於國內產業經濟的衝擊我想還是一直要不斷的滾動性的去修正喔所以你們今天來的這一份報告其實不叫關稅抵定之後的報告因為現在關稅還沒抵定\n\n28\n00:10:10,649 --> 00:10:28,962\n真的抵定之後的衝擊包括內容實質的內容是什麼到時候真的可能還是需要國發會再來到立法院裡頭再做更進一步詳盡的報告因為那個時候其實談判如果都確實結束之後就沒有什麼保密的條款在裡頭了其實國發會更應該開誠布公的讓\n\n29\n00:10:32,124 --> 00:10:50,281\n國內的業者也好或者是國內的整體的產業都要很清楚的知道政府到底能夠為我們做一些什麼事情能夠保護我們的產業到什麼樣的程度或者是能夠協助台灣的產業到什麼樣的程度我覺得那個部分可能要請國發會都要隨時密切的掌控好不好好的好謝謝現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢問\n\n30\n00:11:02,434 --> 00:11:02,935\n好謝謝主席請那個劉書偉劉書偉\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9311\t31923\t謝謝主席我是不是請一下國發會主委主委早主委早主委這個我想您今天準備的這個報告的內容我不曉得你有沒有看了一下他的題目是什麼我們今天來\n33089\t41296\t主席排定的議程的題目是什麼你知道嗎談的是未來經濟未來的經濟狀況你看到是後面我看的是前面\n42694\t70841\t他的主軸是美國對等關稅抵定之後目前還沒有抵定是嗎好所以你這一份報告內容寫的是抵定之後對於台灣的未來景氣跟全球佈局的規劃對不對那現在你剛剛一直在講剛剛楊卓英委員一直問您你一直講關稅還沒有談定確實關稅是還沒有談定所以在關稅還沒有談定之前您今天的報告的內容\n72416\t94241\t會跟國內的整個局勢跟關稅抵定之後的報告內容會有什麼差異我讓您補充說明一下因為你現在這個題目設定是在關稅抵定之後的發展跟規劃關稅還沒有談定之前會有什麼差別我認為抵定之後所有的景氣跟數字會更好\n95100\t113796\t你認為關稅抵定之後景氣跟數字會更好對的你為什麼會有這樣的信心這個主委我想要談一下因為大家都對於台灣的關稅能夠降到多少其實有非常高的期待從4月份講到美國這個總統講32一直到上個禮拜的20\n117639\t126466\t但是日韓是15所以有很多在野黨的委員啊或者是有很多人士就來批評說那台灣談的成績並不好但是我們現在告訴大家這個是暫時性的很多人認為說這個是台灣棠色的政府棠色的語言\n135493\t156909\t所以他到底是不是暫時性 到底還有沒有繼續再談 繼續談的空間在哪裡包括川普在今天的清晨 台灣的時間清晨講到要對半導體開徵100%的關稅 除非在美設廠這一句是很重要 很多的媒體只有講前面一段 就是要對半導體開徵100%\n159051\t178055\t但是在美設廠這一件事情是很重要所以這個如果整個語句完整來看的話對於台積電的影響是什麼台積電看起來應該是沒有影響因為台積電未來是要在美國設廠但是對於台灣其他的半導體的業者來說\n180379\t194365\t可能會有影響那會不會加劇他們往美國去投資的這個方向你們的評估報告裡頭有沒有包含這個部分主委我讓你說明一下這個部分其實現在台\n195846\t212404\t它是設廠跟承諾設廠那我們現在有幾種設廠方式以台積電是直接去建廠像中美金是併購透過併購在德州另外我們也看到聯電跟Intel有一些合作案\n213505\t241161\t我的經驗他也可以透過這個合作的方式來取得關稅的界面對 去合作那剩下的部分要有承諾那承諾的部分就看大家但是我們之前曾經跟這些廠商做過一次座談他們認為台灣的競爭力是夠強的那如果今天大家都在一樣的關稅基礎下以現在來看是大家都在100億的情況下其實大家的競爭是一致的\n241972\t257417\t所以你認為台灣的競爭力是夠強所以不用擔心這個所謂現在的半導體開徵100%對我認為第一名如果都擔心第二名就會害怕好主委但是我想要更進一步請教根據美國的這個貿易擴張法第232條這個\n262299\t286097\t你雖然現在講說我們的半導體業者其實是不用擔心但是其他跟這個所謂的美國國安或者是產業安全有相關的這一些產業甚至或者是有裝有晶片的產品未來是不是都有可能被課到稅所以這個有可能包含筆電伺服器手機網通設備網路通訊設備跟家電等等\n289179\t302872\t這一些有沒有可能會在232條的這個限制之下未來他有可能被課到高的這個關稅那就這個部分政府有什麼因應的措施或者是你們有什麼研判這個部分的確\n305615\t330055\t這幾個現在是列在232還沒有公告所以我們現在做了兩個方案一個是短期短期緊急的時候只能像進急診室一樣我們是應急的方案我目前是編列了951的特別預算希望能夠通過但是我個人的看法如果這個再加劇到含晶片之終端設備的話那我們可能要擴大我們的特別預算\n331275\t353046\t所以你說擴大特別預算是擴大我們的這個產業韌性的這個條例的預算嗎那第二個部分是中長期的部分中長期的部分就是當產業面臨這個就要開始進行佈局的轉型那我們現在國家政策本來就希望例如台灣這個佈局全球那我們也會協助廠商盡量去做全球的佈局去分散它的風險或者是降低它的風險\n353946\t381896\t那我們現在也有一個完整的計畫在已經準備好了那我們可以有實時公告我們已經送抱怨了所以在短期、中期、長期我們目前是有因應的做法那但是會不會這個會不會有影響呢還是要影響有多少還是要看最後的公告那它現在是沒有公告因為它這裡面牽扯兩件事情這幾個產品是在豁免清單就在WTO豁免清單裡面\n382876\t410705\t那在232裡面他會怎麼因應這還是一個所以這個還是很大的不確定性所以那你們有沒有設定一個底線當然我知道在談判的過程裡頭很多的底線是不能現在對外說那你們有沒有設定一個什麼樣的底線或者是說找這一些廠商這一些業者來大家共同討論一下聽一下他們的心聲他們在現在面臨到這樣未來有可能被課稅或者是說\n411465\t428727\t整體現在的這個關稅的衝擊狀態之下政府有沒有充分的了解掌握廠商的心聲甚至我們有沒有設下一個什麼樣的底線是在跟美方在做談判的時候雙方其實是可以\n429764\t458620\t是的有的我們有抓住至少對於我們自己廠商的保護那個底線有沒有抓住有的那大部分以SERVER來講大部分的廠商都是比較大型的那我們可以看到在上半年我們面對到墨西哥我們成長了200%多那因為主要是大家的SERVER廠現在放在墨西哥那主要是USDNA那可以得到保障那第二個部分是我的了解大家現在開始往達拉斯開始在進行佈局\n459720\t478439\t那因為這樣的關係經濟部也去談了那目前在談什麼呢 談希望能夠讓台商在達拉斯德州的布局裡面得以免週稅那目前是得到州長的回應那眾議院也有通過 現在是等他的參議院 州參議院通過\n479219\t504974\t所以這些我們都積極在協助大家往這條路走那中小型的企業目前他們的想法是因為它規模比較小那去的話是不是能變成一個整合型的公司就產業控股公司過去那這樣的話本來這種小公司要單獨去面對政府會很麻煩那合併成一家公司公司變成部門的話就比較容易或是集團那所以呢我們也修訂了這個企業併購法\n506495\t522910\t讓這些廠商在併購的過程中沒有成本增加在五年的寬限期本來是併購會要繳稅那現在併購沒有繳稅所以他們可以進行合併然後到海外發展因為他需要比較大的資本所以這些我們都有做好規劃跟業者都溝通過\n523462\t535414\t主委我再問一個小問題那至於藥品呢生技產業有沒有列入你們的保護清單裡頭現在藥品要被課到未來有可能會被課到250%的稅那生技生技的這個這個生技的產業\n539137\t554468\t有沒有列入你們的所謂的保護清單裡頭就生技的部分因為我們剛剛一直談的大概都是跟半導體有關生技產業的部分呢我們的短中期跟我剛才談的我們免週稅這些都是沒有產業的限制的\n554968\t583654\t都是沒有產業限制的我們是所有的產業都要保護啦所以我們所有的產業都把它納入那至於未來可能會被課高關稅的部分其實你的保護力道或者是你的輔導力道應該是要再更加強而且我們已經有一個清單以您提的這個製藥業來講有哪些在美國有佈局的我們現在清單都在手上那有一些沒有的它的外銷比重比例這個經濟部也都整理出來了好\n584634\t609148\t那目前都在手上好主委因為我的時間已經到我也不要耽誤大家太多時間但是我想國發會在對於整個在關稅的談判的這個過程裡面所有的追蹤管考跟對於國內產業經濟的衝擊我想還是一直要不斷的滾動性的去修正喔所以你們今天來的這一份報告其實不叫關稅抵定之後的報告因為現在關稅還沒抵定\n610649\t628962\t真的抵定之後的衝擊包括內容實質的內容是什麼到時候真的可能還是需要國發會再來到立法院裡頭再做更進一步詳盡的報告因為那個時候其實談判如果都確實結束之後就沒有什麼保密的條款在裡頭了其實國發會更應該開誠布公的讓\n632124\t650281\t國內的業者也好或者是國內的整體的產業都要很清楚的知道政府到底能夠為我們做一些什麼事情能夠保護我們的產業到什麼樣的程度或者是能夠協助台灣的產業到什麼樣的程度我覺得那個部分可能要請國發會都要隨時密切的掌控好不好好的好 謝謝現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢問\n662434\t662935\t好 謝謝主席 請那個劉書偉劉書偉\n","txt":"謝謝主席我是不是請一下國發會主委主委早主委早主委這個我想您今天準備的這個報告的內容我不曉得你有沒有看了一下他的題目是什麼我們今天來\n主席排定的議程的題目是什麼你知道嗎談的是未來經濟未來的經濟狀況你看到是後面我看的是前面\n他的主軸是美國對等關稅抵定之後目前還沒有抵定是嗎好所以你這一份報告內容寫的是抵定之後對於台灣的未來景氣跟全球佈局的規劃對不對那現在你剛剛一直在講剛剛楊卓英委員一直問您你一直講關稅還沒有談定確實關稅是還沒有談定所以在關稅還沒有談定之前您今天的報告的內容\n會跟國內的整個局勢跟關稅抵定之後的報告內容會有什麼差異我讓您補充說明一下因為你現在這個題目設定是在關稅抵定之後的發展跟規劃關稅還沒有談定之前會有什麼差別我認為抵定之後所有的景氣跟數字會更好\n你認為關稅抵定之後景氣跟數字會更好對的你為什麼會有這樣的信心這個主委我想要談一下因為大家都對於台灣的關稅能夠降到多少其實有非常高的期待從4月份講到美國這個總統講32一直到上個禮拜的20\n但是日韓是15所以有很多在野黨的委員啊或者是有很多人士就來批評說那台灣談的成績並不好但是我們現在告訴大家這個是暫時性的很多人認為說這個是台灣棠色的政府棠色的語言\n所以他到底是不是暫時性 到底還有沒有繼續再談 繼續談的空間在哪裡包括川普在今天的清晨 台灣的時間清晨講到要對半導體開徵100%的關稅 除非在美設廠這一句是很重要 很多的媒體只有講前面一段 就是要對半導體開徵100%\n但是在美設廠這一件事情是很重要所以這個如果整個語句完整來看的話對於台積電的影響是什麼台積電看起來應該是沒有影響因為台積電未來是要在美國設廠但是對於台灣其他的半導體的業者來說\n可能會有影響那會不會加劇他們往美國去投資的這個方向你們的評估報告裡頭有沒有包含這個部分主委我讓你說明一下這個部分其實現在台\n它是設廠跟承諾設廠那我們現在有幾種設廠方式以台積電是直接去建廠像中美金是併購透過併購在德州另外我們也看到聯電跟Intel有一些合作案\n我的經驗他也可以透過這個合作的方式來取得關稅的界面對 去合作那剩下的部分要有承諾那承諾的部分就看大家但是我們之前曾經跟這些廠商做過一次座談他們認為台灣的競爭力是夠強的那如果今天大家都在一樣的關稅基礎下以現在來看是大家都在100億的情況下其實大家的競爭是一致的\n所以你認為台灣的競爭力是夠強所以不用擔心這個所謂現在的半導體開徵100%對我認為第一名如果都擔心第二名就會害怕好主委但是我想要更進一步請教根據美國的這個貿易擴張法第232條這個\n你雖然現在講說我們的半導體業者其實是不用擔心但是其他跟這個所謂的美國國安或者是產業安全有相關的這一些產業甚至或者是有裝有晶片的產品未來是不是都有可能被課到稅所以這個有可能包含筆電伺服器手機網通設備網路通訊設備跟家電等等\n這一些有沒有可能會在232條的這個限制之下未來他有可能被課到高的這個關稅那就這個部分政府有什麼因應的措施或者是你們有什麼研判這個部分的確\n這幾個現在是列在232還沒有公告所以我們現在做了兩個方案一個是短期短期緊急的時候只能像進急診室一樣我們是應急的方案我目前是編列了951的特別預算希望能夠通過但是我個人的看法如果這個再加劇到含晶片之終端設備的話那我們可能要擴大我們的特別預算\n所以你說擴大特別預算是擴大我們的這個產業韌性的這個條例的預算嗎那第二個部分是中長期的部分中長期的部分就是當產業面臨這個就要開始進行佈局的轉型那我們現在國家政策本來就希望例如台灣這個佈局全球那我們也會協助廠商盡量去做全球的佈局去分散它的風險或者是降低它的風險\n那我們現在也有一個完整的計畫在已經準備好了那我們可以有實時公告我們已經送抱怨了所以在短期、中期、長期我們目前是有因應的做法那但是會不會這個會不會有影響呢還是要影響有多少還是要看最後的公告那它現在是沒有公告因為它這裡面牽扯兩件事情這幾個產品是在豁免清單就在WTO豁免清單裡面\n那在232裡面他會怎麼因應這還是一個所以這個還是很大的不確定性所以那你們有沒有設定一個底線當然我知道在談判的過程裡頭很多的底線是不能現在對外說那你們有沒有設定一個什麼樣的底線或者是說找這一些廠商這一些業者來大家共同討論一下聽一下他們的心聲他們在現在面臨到這樣未來有可能被課稅或者是說\n整體現在的這個關稅的衝擊狀態之下政府有沒有充分的了解掌握廠商的心聲甚至我們有沒有設下一個什麼樣的底線是在跟美方在做談判的時候雙方其實是可以\n是的有的我們有抓住至少對於我們自己廠商的保護那個底線有沒有抓住有的那大部分以SERVER來講大部分的廠商都是比較大型的那我們可以看到在上半年我們面對到墨西哥我們成長了200%多那因為主要是大家的SERVER廠現在放在墨西哥那主要是USDNA那可以得到保障那第二個部分是我的了解大家現在開始往達拉斯開始在進行佈局\n那因為這樣的關係經濟部也去談了那目前在談什麼呢 談希望能夠讓台商在達拉斯德州的布局裡面得以免週稅那目前是得到州長的回應那眾議院也有通過 現在是等他的參議院 州參議院通過\n所以這些我們都積極在協助大家往這條路走那中小型的企業目前他們的想法是因為它規模比較小那去的話是不是能變成一個整合型的公司就產業控股公司過去那這樣的話本來這種小公司要單獨去面對政府會很麻煩那合併成一家公司公司變成部門的話就比較容易或是集團那所以呢我們也修訂了這個企業併購法\n讓這些廠商在併購的過程中沒有成本增加在五年的寬限期本來是併購會要繳稅那現在併購沒有繳稅所以他們可以進行合併然後到海外發展因為他需要比較大的資本所以這些我們都有做好規劃跟業者都溝通過\n主委我再問一個小問題那至於藥品呢生技產業有沒有列入你們的保護清單裡頭現在藥品要被課到未來有可能會被課到250%的稅那生技生技的這個這個生技的產業\n有沒有列入你們的所謂的保護清單裡頭就生技的部分因為我們剛剛一直談的大概都是跟半導體有關生技產業的部分呢我們的短中期跟我剛才談的我們免週稅這些都是沒有產業的限制的\n都是沒有產業限制的我們是所有的產業都要保護啦所以我們所有的產業都把它納入那至於未來可能會被課高關稅的部分其實你的保護力道或者是你的輔導力道應該是要再更加強而且我們已經有一個清單以您提的這個製藥業來講有哪些在美國有佈局的我們現在清單都在手上那有一些沒有的它的外銷比重比例這個經濟部也都整理出來了好\n那目前都在手上好主委因為我的時間已經到我也不要耽誤大家太多時間但是我想國發會在對於整個在關稅的談判的這個過程裡面所有的追蹤管考跟對於國內產業經濟的衝擊我想還是一直要不斷的滾動性的去修正喔所以你們今天來的這一份報告其實不叫關稅抵定之後的報告因為現在關稅還沒抵定\n真的抵定之後的衝擊包括內容實質的內容是什麼到時候真的可能還是需要國發會再來到立法院裡頭再做更進一步詳盡的報告因為那個時候其實談判如果都確實結束之後就沒有什麼保密的條款在裡頭了其實國發會更應該開誠布公的讓\n國內的業者也好或者是國內的整體的產業都要很清楚的知道政府到底能夠為我們做一些什麼事情能夠保護我們的產業到什麼樣的程度或者是能夠協助台灣的產業到什麼樣的程度我覺得那個部分可能要請國發會都要隨時密切的掌控好不好好的好 謝謝現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢問\n好 謝謝主席 請那個劉書偉劉書偉\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.311 --> 00:31.923\n謝謝主席我是不是請一下國發會主委主委早主委早主委這個我想您今天準備的這個報告的內容我不曉得你有沒有看了一下他的題目是什麼我們今天來\n\n00:33.089 --> 00:41.296\n主席排定的議程的題目是什麼你知道嗎談的是未來經濟未來的經濟狀況你看到是後面我看的是前面\n\n00:42.694 --> 01:10.841\n他的主軸是美國對等關稅抵定之後目前還沒有抵定是嗎好所以你這一份報告內容寫的是抵定之後對於台灣的未來景氣跟全球佈局的規劃對不對那現在你剛剛一直在講剛剛楊卓英委員一直問您你一直講關稅還沒有談定確實關稅是還沒有談定所以在關稅還沒有談定之前您今天的報告的內容\n\n01:12.416 --> 01:34.241\n會跟國內的整個局勢跟關稅抵定之後的報告內容會有什麼差異我讓您補充說明一下因為你現在這個題目設定是在關稅抵定之後的發展跟規劃關稅還沒有談定之前會有什麼差別我認為抵定之後所有的景氣跟數字會更好\n\n01:35.100 --> 01:53.796\n你認為關稅抵定之後景氣跟數字會更好對的你為什麼會有這樣的信心這個主委我想要談一下因為大家都對於台灣的關稅能夠降到多少其實有非常高的期待從4月份講到美國這個總統講32一直到上個禮拜的20\n\n01:57.639 --> 02:06.466\n但是日韓是15所以有很多在野黨的委員啊或者是有很多人士就來批評說那台灣談的成績並不好但是我們現在告訴大家這個是暫時性的很多人認為說這個是台灣棠色的政府棠色的語言\n\n02:15.493 --> 02:36.909\n所以他到底是不是暫時性到底還有沒有繼續再談繼續談的空間在哪裡包括川普在今天的清晨台灣的時間清晨講到要對半導體開徵100%的關稅除非在美設廠這一句是很重要很多的媒體只有講前面一段就是要對半導體開徵100%\n\n02:39.051 --> 02:58.055\n但是在美設廠這一件事情是很重要所以這個如果整個語句完整來看的話對於台積電的影響是什麼台積電看起來應該是沒有影響因為台積電未來是要在美國設廠但是對於台灣其他的半導體的業者來說\n\n03:00.379 --> 03:14.365\n可能會有影響那會不會加劇他們往美國去投資的這個方向你們的評估報告裡頭有沒有包含這個部分主委我讓你說明一下這個部分其實現在台\n\n03:15.846 --> 03:32.404\n它是設廠跟承諾設廠那我們現在有幾種設廠方式以台積電是直接去建廠像中美金是併購透過併購在德州另外我們也看到聯電跟Intel有一些合作案\n\n03:33.505 --> 04:01.161\n我的經驗他也可以透過這個合作的方式來取得關稅的界面對去合作那剩下的部分要有承諾那承諾的部分就看大家但是我們之前曾經跟這些廠商做過一次座談他們認為台灣的競爭力是夠強的那如果今天大家都在一樣的關稅基礎下以現在來看是大家都在100億的情況下其實大家的競爭是一致的\n\n04:01.972 --> 04:17.417\n所以你認為台灣的競爭力是夠強所以不用擔心這個所謂現在的半導體開徵100%對我認為第一名如果都擔心第二名就會害怕好主委但是我想要更進一步請教根據美國的這個貿易擴張法第232條這個\n\n04:22.299 --> 04:46.097\n你雖然現在講說我們的半導體業者其實是不用擔心但是其他跟這個所謂的美國國安或者是產業安全有相關的這一些產業甚至或者是有裝有晶片的產品未來是不是都有可能被課到稅所以這個有可能包含筆電伺服器手機網通設備網路通訊設備跟家電等等\n\n04:49.179 --> 05:02.872\n這一些有沒有可能會在232條的這個限制之下未來他有可能被課到高的這個關稅那就這個部分政府有什麼因應的措施或者是你們有什麼研判這個部分的確\n\n05:05.615 --> 05:30.055\n這幾個現在是列在232還沒有公告所以我們現在做了兩個方案一個是短期短期緊急的時候只能像進急診室一樣我們是應急的方案我目前是編列了951的特別預算希望能夠通過但是我個人的看法如果這個再加劇到含晶片之終端設備的話那我們可能要擴大我們的特別預算\n\n05:31.275 --> 05:53.046\n所以你說擴大特別預算是擴大我們的這個產業韌性的這個條例的預算嗎那第二個部分是中長期的部分中長期的部分就是當產業面臨這個就要開始進行佈局的轉型那我們現在國家政策本來就希望例如台灣這個佈局全球那我們也會協助廠商盡量去做全球的佈局去分散它的風險或者是降低它的風險\n\n05:53.946 --> 06:21.896\n那我們現在也有一個完整的計畫在已經準備好了那我們可以有實時公告我們已經送抱怨了所以在短期、中期、長期我們目前是有因應的做法那但是會不會這個會不會有影響呢還是要影響有多少還是要看最後的公告那它現在是沒有公告因為它這裡面牽扯兩件事情這幾個產品是在豁免清單就在WTO豁免清單裡面\n\n06:22.876 --> 06:50.705\n那在232裡面他會怎麼因應這還是一個所以這個還是很大的不確定性所以那你們有沒有設定一個底線當然我知道在談判的過程裡頭很多的底線是不能現在對外說那你們有沒有設定一個什麼樣的底線或者是說找這一些廠商這一些業者來大家共同討論一下聽一下他們的心聲他們在現在面臨到這樣未來有可能被課稅或者是說\n\n06:51.465 --> 07:08.727\n整體現在的這個關稅的衝擊狀態之下政府有沒有充分的了解掌握廠商的心聲甚至我們有沒有設下一個什麼樣的底線是在跟美方在做談判的時候雙方其實是可以\n\n07:09.764 --> 07:38.620\n是的有的我們有抓住至少對於我們自己廠商的保護那個底線有沒有抓住有的那大部分以SERVER來講大部分的廠商都是比較大型的那我們可以看到在上半年我們面對到墨西哥我們成長了200%多那因為主要是大家的SERVER廠現在放在墨西哥那主要是USDNA那可以得到保障那第二個部分是我的了解大家現在開始往達拉斯開始在進行佈局\n\n07:39.720 --> 07:58.439\n那因為這樣的關係經濟部也去談了那目前在談什麼呢談希望能夠讓台商在達拉斯德州的布局裡面得以免週稅那目前是得到州長的回應那眾議院也有通過現在是等他的參議院州參議院通過\n\n07:59.219 --> 08:24.974\n所以這些我們都積極在協助大家往這條路走那中小型的企業目前他們的想法是因為它規模比較小那去的話是不是能變成一個整合型的公司就產業控股公司過去那這樣的話本來這種小公司要單獨去面對政府會很麻煩那合併成一家公司公司變成部門的話就比較容易或是集團那所以呢我們也修訂了這個企業併購法\n\n08:26.495 --> 08:42.910\n讓這些廠商在併購的過程中沒有成本增加在五年的寬限期本來是併購會要繳稅那現在併購沒有繳稅所以他們可以進行合併然後到海外發展因為他需要比較大的資本所以這些我們都有做好規劃跟業者都溝通過\n\n08:43.462 --> 08:55.414\n主委我再問一個小問題那至於藥品呢生技產業有沒有列入你們的保護清單裡頭現在藥品要被課到未來有可能會被課到250%的稅那生技生技的這個這個生技的產業\n\n08:59.137 --> 09:14.468\n有沒有列入你們的所謂的保護清單裡頭就生技的部分因為我們剛剛一直談的大概都是跟半導體有關生技產業的部分呢我們的短中期跟我剛才談的我們免週稅這些都是沒有產業的限制的\n\n09:14.968 --> 09:43.654\n都是沒有產業限制的我們是所有的產業都要保護啦所以我們所有的產業都把它納入那至於未來可能會被課高關稅的部分其實你的保護力道或者是你的輔導力道應該是要再更加強而且我們已經有一個清單以您提的這個製藥業來講有哪些在美國有佈局的我們現在清單都在手上那有一些沒有的它的外銷比重比例這個經濟部也都整理出來了好\n\n09:44.634 --> 10:09.148\n那目前都在手上好主委因為我的時間已經到我也不要耽誤大家太多時間但是我想國發會在對於整個在關稅的談判的這個過程裡面所有的追蹤管考跟對於國內產業經濟的衝擊我想還是一直要不斷的滾動性的去修正喔所以你們今天來的這一份報告其實不叫關稅抵定之後的報告因為現在關稅還沒抵定\n\n10:10.649 --> 10:28.962\n真的抵定之後的衝擊包括內容實質的內容是什麼到時候真的可能還是需要國發會再來到立法院裡頭再做更進一步詳盡的報告因為那個時候其實談判如果都確實結束之後就沒有什麼保密的條款在裡頭了其實國發會更應該開誠布公的讓\n\n10:32.124 --> 10:50.281\n國內的業者也好或者是國內的整體的產業都要很清楚的知道政府到底能夠為我們做一些什麼事情能夠保護我們的產業到什麼樣的程度或者是能夠協助台灣的產業到什麼樣的程度我覺得那個部分可能要請國發會都要隨時密切的掌控好不好好的好謝謝現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢問\n\n11:02.434 --> 11:02.935\n好謝謝主席請那個劉書偉劉書偉\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.311,"end":31.923,"text":"謝謝主席我是不是請一下國發會主委主委早主委早主委這個我想您今天準備的這個報告的內容我不曉得你有沒有看了一下他的題目是什麼我們今天來"},{"start":33.089,"end":41.296,"text":"主席排定的議程的題目是什麼你知道嗎談的是未來經濟未來的經濟狀況你看到是後面我看的是前面"},{"start":42.694,"end":70.841,"text":"他的主軸是美國對等關稅抵定之後目前還沒有抵定是嗎好所以你這一份報告內容寫的是抵定之後對於台灣的未來景氣跟全球佈局的規劃對不對那現在你剛剛一直在講剛剛楊卓英委員一直問您你一直講關稅還沒有談定確實關稅是還沒有談定所以在關稅還沒有談定之前您今天的報告的內容"},{"start":72.416,"end":94.241,"text":"會跟國內的整個局勢跟關稅抵定之後的報告內容會有什麼差異我讓您補充說明一下因為你現在這個題目設定是在關稅抵定之後的發展跟規劃關稅還沒有談定之前會有什麼差別我認為抵定之後所有的景氣跟數字會更好"},{"start":95.1,"end":113.796,"text":"你認為關稅抵定之後景氣跟數字會更好對的你為什麼會有這樣的信心這個主委我想要談一下因為大家都對於台灣的關稅能夠降到多少其實有非常高的期待從4月份講到美國這個總統講32一直到上個禮拜的20"},{"start":117.639,"end":126.466,"text":"但是日韓是15所以有很多在野黨的委員啊或者是有很多人士就來批評說那台灣談的成績並不好但是我們現在告訴大家這個是暫時性的很多人認為說這個是台灣棠色的政府棠色的語言"},{"start":135.493,"end":156.909,"text":"所以他到底是不是暫時性 到底還有沒有繼續再談 繼續談的空間在哪裡包括川普在今天的清晨 台灣的時間清晨講到要對半導體開徵100%的關稅 除非在美設廠這一句是很重要 很多的媒體只有講前面一段 就是要對半導體開徵100%"},{"start":159.051,"end":178.055,"text":"但是在美設廠這一件事情是很重要所以這個如果整個語句完整來看的話對於台積電的影響是什麼台積電看起來應該是沒有影響因為台積電未來是要在美國設廠但是對於台灣其他的半導體的業者來說"},{"start":180.379,"end":194.365,"text":"可能會有影響那會不會加劇他們往美國去投資的這個方向你們的評估報告裡頭有沒有包含這個部分主委我讓你說明一下這個部分其實現在台"},{"start":195.846,"end":212.404,"text":"它是設廠跟承諾設廠那我們現在有幾種設廠方式以台積電是直接去建廠像中美金是併購透過併購在德州另外我們也看到聯電跟Intel有一些合作案"},{"start":213.505,"end":241.161,"text":"我的經驗他也可以透過這個合作的方式來取得關稅的界面對 去合作那剩下的部分要有承諾那承諾的部分就看大家但是我們之前曾經跟這些廠商做過一次座談他們認為台灣的競爭力是夠強的那如果今天大家都在一樣的關稅基礎下以現在來看是大家都在100億的情況下其實大家的競爭是一致的"},{"start":241.972,"end":257.417,"text":"所以你認為台灣的競爭力是夠強所以不用擔心這個所謂現在的半導體開徵100%對我認為第一名如果都擔心第二名就會害怕好主委但是我想要更進一步請教根據美國的這個貿易擴張法第232條這個"},{"start":262.299,"end":286.097,"text":"你雖然現在講說我們的半導體業者其實是不用擔心但是其他跟這個所謂的美國國安或者是產業安全有相關的這一些產業甚至或者是有裝有晶片的產品未來是不是都有可能被課到稅所以這個有可能包含筆電伺服器手機網通設備網路通訊設備跟家電等等"},{"start":289.179,"end":302.872,"text":"這一些有沒有可能會在232條的這個限制之下未來他有可能被課到高的這個關稅那就這個部分政府有什麼因應的措施或者是你們有什麼研判這個部分的確"},{"start":305.615,"end":330.055,"text":"這幾個現在是列在232還沒有公告所以我們現在做了兩個方案一個是短期短期緊急的時候只能像進急診室一樣我們是應急的方案我目前是編列了951的特別預算希望能夠通過但是我個人的看法如果這個再加劇到含晶片之終端設備的話那我們可能要擴大我們的特別預算"},{"start":331.275,"end":353.046,"text":"所以你說擴大特別預算是擴大我們的這個產業韌性的這個條例的預算嗎那第二個部分是中長期的部分中長期的部分就是當產業面臨這個就要開始進行佈局的轉型那我們現在國家政策本來就希望例如台灣這個佈局全球那我們也會協助廠商盡量去做全球的佈局去分散它的風險或者是降低它的風險"},{"start":353.946,"end":381.896,"text":"那我們現在也有一個完整的計畫在已經準備好了那我們可以有實時公告我們已經送抱怨了所以在短期、中期、長期我們目前是有因應的做法那但是會不會這個會不會有影響呢還是要影響有多少還是要看最後的公告那它現在是沒有公告因為它這裡面牽扯兩件事情這幾個產品是在豁免清單就在WTO豁免清單裡面"},{"start":382.876,"end":410.705,"text":"那在232裡面他會怎麼因應這還是一個所以這個還是很大的不確定性所以那你們有沒有設定一個底線當然我知道在談判的過程裡頭很多的底線是不能現在對外說那你們有沒有設定一個什麼樣的底線或者是說找這一些廠商這一些業者來大家共同討論一下聽一下他們的心聲他們在現在面臨到這樣未來有可能被課稅或者是說"},{"start":411.465,"end":428.727,"text":"整體現在的這個關稅的衝擊狀態之下政府有沒有充分的了解掌握廠商的心聲甚至我們有沒有設下一個什麼樣的底線是在跟美方在做談判的時候雙方其實是可以"},{"start":429.764,"end":458.62,"text":"是的有的我們有抓住至少對於我們自己廠商的保護那個底線有沒有抓住有的那大部分以SERVER來講大部分的廠商都是比較大型的那我們可以看到在上半年我們面對到墨西哥我們成長了200%多那因為主要是大家的SERVER廠現在放在墨西哥那主要是USDNA那可以得到保障那第二個部分是我的了解大家現在開始往達拉斯開始在進行佈局"},{"start":459.72,"end":478.439,"text":"那因為這樣的關係經濟部也去談了那目前在談什麼呢 談希望能夠讓台商在達拉斯德州的布局裡面得以免週稅那目前是得到州長的回應那眾議院也有通過 現在是等他的參議院 州參議院通過"},{"start":479.219,"end":504.974,"text":"所以這些我們都積極在協助大家往這條路走那中小型的企業目前他們的想法是因為它規模比較小那去的話是不是能變成一個整合型的公司就產業控股公司過去那這樣的話本來這種小公司要單獨去面對政府會很麻煩那合併成一家公司公司變成部門的話就比較容易或是集團那所以呢我們也修訂了這個企業併購法"},{"start":506.495,"end":522.91,"text":"讓這些廠商在併購的過程中沒有成本增加在五年的寬限期本來是併購會要繳稅那現在併購沒有繳稅所以他們可以進行合併然後到海外發展因為他需要比較大的資本所以這些我們都有做好規劃跟業者都溝通過"},{"start":523.462,"end":535.414,"text":"主委我再問一個小問題那至於藥品呢生技產業有沒有列入你們的保護清單裡頭現在藥品要被課到未來有可能會被課到250%的稅那生技生技的這個這個生技的產業"},{"start":539.137,"end":554.468,"text":"有沒有列入你們的所謂的保護清單裡頭就生技的部分因為我們剛剛一直談的大概都是跟半導體有關生技產業的部分呢我們的短中期跟我剛才談的我們免週稅這些都是沒有產業的限制的"},{"start":554.968,"end":583.654,"text":"都是沒有產業限制的我們是所有的產業都要保護啦所以我們所有的產業都把它納入那至於未來可能會被課高關稅的部分其實你的保護力道或者是你的輔導力道應該是要再更加強而且我們已經有一個清單以您提的這個製藥業來講有哪些在美國有佈局的我們現在清單都在手上那有一些沒有的它的外銷比重比例這個經濟部也都整理出來了好"},{"start":584.634,"end":609.148,"text":"那目前都在手上好主委因為我的時間已經到我也不要耽誤大家太多時間但是我想國發會在對於整個在關稅的談判的這個過程裡面所有的追蹤管考跟對於國內產業經濟的衝擊我想還是一直要不斷的滾動性的去修正喔所以你們今天來的這一份報告其實不叫關稅抵定之後的報告因為現在關稅還沒抵定"},{"start":610.649,"end":628.962,"text":"真的抵定之後的衝擊包括內容實質的內容是什麼到時候真的可能還是需要國發會再來到立法院裡頭再做更進一步詳盡的報告因為那個時候其實談判如果都確實結束之後就沒有什麼保密的條款在裡頭了其實國發會更應該開誠布公的讓"},{"start":632.124,"end":650.281,"text":"國內的業者也好或者是國內的整體的產業都要很清楚的知道政府到底能夠為我們做一些什麼事情能夠保護我們的產業到什麼樣的程度或者是能夠協助台灣的產業到什麼樣的程度我覺得那個部分可能要請國發會都要隨時密切的掌控好不好好的好 謝謝現在請賴瑞榮委員做詢問"},{"start":662.434,"end":662.935,"text":"好 謝謝主席 請那個劉書偉劉書偉"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":130,"blocks":[["邱委員議瑩：（9時32分）謝謝主席，請一下國發會主委。"],["主席：劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：邱委員早。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委早。主委，您今天準備的報告內容，我不曉得你有沒有看一下它的題目是什麼，今天主席排定的議程題目是什麼，你知道嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：談的是經濟未來的景氣狀況。"],["邱委員議瑩：你看到的是後面，我看的是前面，它的主軸是美國對等關稅底定之後。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前還沒有底定。"],["邱委員議瑩：是嘛，所以你這份報告內容寫的是底定之後，對於臺灣未來的景氣跟全球布局的規劃，對不對？你剛剛一直在講，剛剛楊瓊瓔委員一直問你，你一直講關稅還沒有談定，確實關稅是還沒有談定，所以在關稅還沒有談定之前，你今天報告內容的國內整個局勢，跟關稅底定之後的報告內容會有什麼差異？我讓你補充說明一下，因為現在這個題目設定是在關稅底定之後的發展跟規劃，跟關稅還沒有談定之前會有什麼差別？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我認為底定之後，所有的景氣跟數字會更好。"],["邱委員議瑩：你認為關稅底定之後，景氣跟數字會更好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：你為什麼會有這樣的信心？主委，我想要談一下，因為大家都對於臺灣的關稅能夠降到多少有非常高的期待，從4月份美國總統講32%，一直到上個禮拜的20%，但是日、韓是15%，所以有很多在野黨的委員，或者是有很多人士就來批評說臺灣談的成績並不好，但是我們現在告訴大家，這個是暫時性的，很多人認為這個是臺灣搪塞的、政府搪塞的語言，所以它到底是不是暫時性？到底還有沒有繼續再談？繼續談的空間在哪裡？包括川普在今天的清晨、臺灣時間的清晨講到要對半導體開徵100%的關稅，除非在美設廠，這一句是很重要的，很多媒體只有講前面一段，就是要對半導體開徵100%，但是在美設廠這一件事情是很重要的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：還有承諾設廠。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以如果整個語句完整來看的話，對於台積電的影響是什麼？看起來台積電應該是沒有影響。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前是沒有影響。"],["邱委員議瑩：因為台積電未來是要在美國設廠。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：已經設廠了。"],["邱委員議瑩：但是對於臺灣其他的半導體業者來說，可能會有影響，那會不會加劇他們往美國去投資的這個方向？你們的評估報告裡頭有沒有包含這個部分？主委，我讓你說明一下。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：關於這個部分，其實他是說設廠跟承諾設廠，我們現在有幾種設廠方式，台積電是直接去建廠，像中美晶是透過併購、在德州，另外我們也看到聯電跟Intel有一些合作案，我的經驗是他也可以透過合作的方式來……"],["邱委員議瑩：取得關稅的減免。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，去合作。剩下的部分要有承諾，承諾的部分就看大家，但是我們之前曾經跟這些廠商做過一次座談，他們認為臺灣的競爭力是夠強的，如果今天大家都在一樣的關稅基礎下，以現在來看是大家都在100%的情況下，其實大家的競爭是一致的。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你認為臺灣的競爭力是夠強，所以不用擔心現在所謂的半導體開徵100%？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我認為第一名如果都擔心，第二名就會害怕。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。主委，我想要更進一步請教，根據美國的貿易擴張法第232條，您雖然現在說我們的半導體業者其實是不用擔心，但是其他跟所謂的美國國安，或者是產業安全有相關的這些產業，甚至是裝有晶片的產品，未來是不是都有可能被課到稅？所以這個有可能包含筆電、伺服器、手機、網通設備、網路通訊設備跟家電等等，這些有沒有可能會在232條的限制之下，未來有可能被課到高的關稅？就這個部分，政府有什麼因應的措施，或者是你們有什麼研判？它的衝擊為何？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：關於這個部分，的確這幾個現在是列在232，還沒有公告，所以我們現在做了兩個方案，一個是短期、緊急的時候，只能像進急診室一樣，是應急的方案，我們目前編列了950億的特別預算，希望能夠通過。但是我個人的看法是，如果這個再加劇到含晶片之終端設備的話，那我們可能要擴大我們的特別預算；第二個部分是……"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你說擴大特別預算是擴大我們產業韌性這個條例的預算嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。第二個部分是中長期的部分，中長期的部分就是，當產業面臨這個就要開始進行布局的轉型，我們現在的國家政策本來就是希望立足臺灣、布局全球，我們也會協助廠商儘量去做全球布局來分散它的風險，或者是降低它的風險，我們現在也有一個完整的計畫已經準備好了，我們隨時可以公告，我們已經報院了，所以在短期、中期，長期，我們目前是有因應的作法，但是這個會不會有影響、影響有多少，還是要看最後的公告，它現在是沒有公告。因為這裡面牽扯到兩件事情，這幾個產品是在豁免清單，就是在WTO豁免清單裡面，在232裡面，它會怎麼因應？這還是一個要觀察的地方。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以這個還是很大的不確定性？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：那你們有沒有設定一個底線？當然我知道在談判的過程裡頭，很多的底線是不能現在對外說，那你們有沒有設定一個什麼樣的底線？或者是說找這些廠商、業者，大家共同討論一下，聽一下他們的心聲，他們現在面臨到未來有可能被課稅，或者是說現在整體關稅衝擊的狀態之下，政府有沒有充分的了解、掌握廠商的心聲？甚至我們有沒有設下一個什麼樣的底線，是在跟美方在做談判的時候，雙方其實是可以……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的、有的。"],["邱委員議瑩：至少對於我們自己廠商的保護，那個我們底線有沒有抓住？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：有的，以Server來講，大部分的廠商都是比較大型的，我們可以看到在上半年，我們面對到墨西哥，我們成長了百分之兩百多，因為主要是大家的Server廠現在放在墨西哥，主要是可以透過USMCA得到保障。第二個部分以我的了解，大家現在開始往達拉斯在進行布局，因為這樣的關係，經濟部也去談了，目前在談什麼呢？談希望能夠讓臺商在德州達拉斯的布局裡得以免州稅。目前是得到州長的回應，眾議院也有通過，還要等他們的參議院、州參議院通過，所以這些我們都積極在協助大家往這條路走。","有關中小型的企業，目前他們的想法是因為他們規模比較小，去的話是不是能變成一個整合型的公司，以產業控股公司的形式過去，本來這種小公司要單獨去面對政府會很麻煩，倘若合併成一家公司，公司變成部門或是集團的話，就比較容易。所以我們也修訂了企業併購法，讓這些廠商在併購的過程中，沒有增加成本，在5年的寬限期內，本來併購要繳稅，現在併購不用繳稅，所以他們可以進行合併後，再到海外發展。因為他們需要比較大的資本，所以這些我們都有做好規劃，跟業者都有溝通過。"],["邱委員議瑩：主委，我再問一個小問題，至於藥品呢？生技產業有沒有列入你們的保護清單裡？未來藥品有可能會被課到250%的關稅，生技的產業有沒有列入你們所謂的保護清單裡？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：就我了解……"],["邱委員議瑩：就生技的部分，因為我們剛剛一直談的大概都是跟半導體有關嘛！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["邱委員議瑩：生技產業的部分呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們的短、中期跟我剛才談的免州稅，這些都是沒有產業的限制，我們是所有的產業都要保護啦！"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你們有把我們所有的產業都納入？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我們也……"],["邱委員議瑩：至於我們未來可能會被課高關稅的部分，其實你們的保護力道或者輔導力道，應該是要再更加強。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們已經有一個清單，就以您提的這個製藥業來講，哪些在美國有布局的，現在清單都在我們手上啦！有些沒有的，它的外銷比重，經濟部也都有整理出來了，目前都在手上。"],["邱委員議瑩：好。主委，因為我的時間已經到了，我也不要耽誤大家太多時間，但是我想國發會對於整個關稅的談判過程，所有的追蹤管考跟對於國內產業經濟的衝擊，還是要一直不斷地滾動式修正。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["邱委員議瑩：所以你們今天的這一份報告，其實不叫關稅底定之後的報告。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒錯。"],["邱委員議瑩：因為現在關稅還沒底定，真的底定之後的衝擊，包括實質的內容是什麼，到時候可能還是需要國發會再到立法院來做更進一步詳盡的報告，因為那個時候談判如果都確實結束之後，就沒有什麼保密的條款在裡頭了。其實國發會更應該開誠布公讓國內的業者也好，或者是國內整體的產業都要很清楚的知道，政府到底能夠為我們做一些什麼事情？能夠保護我們的產業到什麼樣的程度？或者是能夠協助臺灣的產業到什麼樣的程度？我覺得那個部分要請國發會隨時密切的掌控，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["主席：好，謝謝。現在請賴瑞隆委員做詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":500,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-19","speakers":["謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","陳超明","邱志偉","賴士葆","李坤城","呂玉玲","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","廖先翔","葉元之","蔡易餘","林岱樺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":437,"meetingDate":["2025-08-07"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員就「美國對等關稅底定後，我國經濟未來之景氣情況及產業全球佈\n局新規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147101_00010"}}}