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\"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 62.608, \"end\": 62.868, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 62.868, \"end\": 63.268, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 63.268, \"end\": 63.929, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 63.929, \"end\": 64.069, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 64.069, \"end\": 64.349, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 64.349, \"end\": 65.05, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 65.05, \"end\": 65.21, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 65.21, \"end\": 65.41, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"被\", \"start\": 65.41, \"end\": 65.69, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"迫\", \"start\": 65.69, \"end\": 66.491, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 66.491, \"end\": 66.611, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 66.611, \"end\": 66.791, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 66.791, \"end\": 67.071, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 67.071, \"end\": 67.832, \"score\": 0.967}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 67.832, \"end\": 67.972, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 67.972, \"end\": 68.132, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 68.132, \"end\": 68.432, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 68.432, \"end\": 68.572, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 68.572, \"end\": 68.672, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 68.672, \"end\": 68.832, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 68.832, \"end\": 69.713, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 69.713, \"end\": 70.033, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 70.033, \"end\": 70.173, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"投\", \"start\": 70.173, \"end\": 70.534, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 70.534, \"end\": 70.874, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 70.874, \"end\": 71.034, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 71.034, \"end\": 71.214, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 71.214, \"end\": 71.334, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"算\", \"start\": 71.334, \"end\": 71.535, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 71.535, \"end\": 72.195, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"承\", \"start\": 72.195, \"end\": 72.355, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"諾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 72.355, \"end\": 72.595, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 72.595, \"end\": 72.615, \"score\": 0.181}, {\"word\": \"額\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}]}, {\"start\": 74.999, \"end\": 103.253, \"text\": \"我并没有参与谈判但是从日本来看日本的是韩企业投资日本是韩企业对不对对他有抗一部分的那个像孙生义的投资不因为之前AIT他曾经出来讲就说企业的投资的部分可能不算在这个里头你知道这个讯息吗之前那个靖州他本来有一个新闻公布出来之后然后后来很快下架\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 74.999, \"end\": 75.299, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"并\", \"start\": 75.299, \"end\": 75.419, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"没\", \"start\": 75.419, \"end\": 75.539, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 75.539, \"end\": 75.68, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"参\", \"start\": 75.68, \"end\": 75.86, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"与\", \"start\": 75.86, \"end\": 76.02, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"谈\", \"start\": 76.02, \"end\": 76.32, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 76.32, \"end\": 77.02, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 77.02, \"end\": 77.16, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 77.16, \"end\": 77.34, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"从\", \"start\": 77.34, \"end\": 77.66, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 77.66, \"end\": 78.881, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 78.881, \"end\": 79.001, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"来\", \"start\": 79.001, \"end\": 79.201, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"看\", 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{\"word\": \"后\", \"start\": 101.932, \"end\": 102.112, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 102.112, \"end\": 102.312, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"后\", \"start\": 102.312, \"end\": 102.352, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"后\", \"start\": 102.352, \"end\": 102.452, \"score\": 0.796}, {\"word\": \"来\", \"start\": 102.452, \"end\": 102.592, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 102.592, \"end\": 102.812, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 102.812, \"end\": 102.972, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 102.972, \"end\": 103.233, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"架\", \"start\": 103.233, \"end\": 103.253, \"score\": 0.727}]}, {\"start\": 104.173, \"end\": 119.501, \"text\": \"你有注意到這個訊息嗎?我沒有注意到這個訊息但是我有看到那個日本相關的訊息了所以日本他們是企業投資政府鼓勵企業投資也包含在這個承諾金額裡頭他是看整個國家的投資嘛\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 104.173, \"end\": 104.293, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 104.293, \"end\": 104.413, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"注\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"央\", \"start\": 726.12, \"end\": 726.28, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 726.28, \"end\": 726.42, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 726.42, \"end\": 726.54, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 726.54, \"end\": 726.7, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 726.7, \"end\": 727.16, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 727.16, \"end\": 727.28, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 727.28, \"end\": 727.821, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"落\", \"start\": 727.821, \"end\": 728.161, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"桃\", \"start\": 728.161, \"end\": 728.561, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"園\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 728.561, \"end\": 728.941, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"氣\"}, {\"word\": \"谷\", \"start\": 728.941, \"end\": 730.262, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 730.262, \"end\": 730.462, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 730.462, \"end\": 730.582, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 730.582, \"end\": 730.882, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 730.882, \"end\": 730.982, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 730.982, \"end\": 731.062, \"score\": 0.746}, {\"word\": \"平\", \"start\": 731.062, \"end\": 731.182, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 731.182, \"end\": 731.402, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 731.402, \"end\": 731.522, \"score\": 0.734}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 731.522, \"end\": 731.662, \"score\": 0.792}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 731.662, \"end\": 731.862, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 731.862, \"end\": 731.982, \"score\": 0.812}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 731.982, \"end\": 732.202, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"鄭\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 732.202, \"end\": 732.322, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 732.322, \"end\": 732.442, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 732.442, \"end\": 732.562, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 732.562, \"end\": 732.582, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,383 --> 00:00:13,591\n謝謝主席我想請一下國發會的劉諸葳劉諸葳\n\n2\n00:00:22,628 --> 00:00:50,839\n政委很早主委平安非常感謝今天那個主席安排美國對冷關稅抵定後我國經濟未來的景氣情況及全球佈局的新規劃那坦白說因為目前我們的對冷關稅還沒有抵定還沒有抵定那我在想說不過我們也從這個主委今天的報告當中看到了有一些新的內容包括說你講的新產業新動能跟新佈局這部分\n\n3\n00:00:51,799 --> 00:01:12,615\n我是想說先再請教一個部分就是說因為目前在整個對冷關稅當中的時候都會碰到幾個狀態就是包括投資金額的一個承諾的一個部分那我想問比方說不管台灣這邊到時候被迫或者是主動要去投資多少的金額企業的投資金額裡面算不算在這個承諾的金額裡頭\n\n4\n00:01:14,999 --> 00:01:43,253\n我并没有参与谈判但是从日本来看日本的是韩企业投资日本是韩企业对不对对他有抗一部分的那个像孙生义的投资不因为之前AIT他曾经出来讲就说企业的投资的部分可能不算在这个里头你知道这个讯息吗之前那个靖州他本来有一个新闻公布出来之后然后后来很快下架\n\n5\n00:01:44,173 --> 00:01:59,501\n你有注意到這個訊息嗎?我沒有注意到這個訊息但是我有看到那個日本相關的訊息了所以日本他們是企業投資政府鼓勵企業投資也包含在這個承諾金額裡頭他是看整個國家的投資嘛\n\n6\n00:02:02,563 --> 00:02:21,692\nOK好那這個部分我想特別問的狀態就是因為台積電就是我們去美國投資當很重要的一個部分那剛很多委員都提到因為護國神山的一個動向洞見觀瞻那因為我們國發基金其實也是目前台積電就是\n\n7\n00:02:22,532 --> 00:02:39,439\n大概最主要的實質的股東大概佔6.38%的股份其實非常的多所以我們肯定對台積電這邊也會有一些影響力那比方說今天早上川普說他就再度點名你剛才也提到第二次的點名就說台積電要去投2000億\n\n8\n00:02:40,740 --> 00:02:58,837\n那8月5號的時候台積電是直接只表示說他們要投1650億當中有350億的一個差距的時候我在想說我們國發會我們政府這邊會不會有一些什麼樣子的一個表態還是說直接還是把它推給企業就是說這企業的一個行為\n\n9\n00:03:00,584 --> 00:03:19,506\n倒不是要推給企業我們一向是支持台積電的決策因為我是董事我可能講錯什麼會造成股市的變動所以我們一般來講從公司治理是由發言人來發言我們不會對單一公司進行發言\n\n10\n00:03:20,487 --> 00:03:40,404\n那我只是如果從國安會來看今天早上的內容那今天早上的內容他其實又調整到兩千億那第二個事情是主要是他公布出來的是對台積電比較有利就是等於是台積電已經在美國設廠那他就沒有關稅反而其他的競爭者會產生關稅的問題\n\n11\n00:03:42,446 --> 00:04:03,082\n理解那台積電其實在美國有成熟製程在奧羅岡在有很早就去了然後再加上有先進製程其實目前來講是對他比較利多了我在看目前的狀態我剛才提到這個狀態就是說除了國八基金其實是台積電最重要的實質股東之外的那另外一部分就是說因為台積電對台灣確實影響大\n\n12\n00:04:05,123 --> 00:04:32,882\n目前承諾1650億美元的時候大概有5兆台幣的一個狀態那我在想說去投資基本上國際全球佈局都是好事啦只是我們也會擔心就是說再多350如果再多350億那就再多1兆台幣的狀態的時候那投資美國跟投資台灣對於我們的一個資本投資一定會有點不太一樣所以我們也希望說政府在這樣子的一個事情當中說也許會有一個態度出來\n\n13\n00:04:33,582 --> 00:04:54,054\n那讓台積電也許會變成有一個比較好的一個依靠因為有一個最新的新聞因為一大早媒體有報導就是魏哲嘉又急飛美國去那不曉得是什麼事情那我在想說因為就是目前因為整個對等關係還沒有抵定然後很多的企業其實都很擔心都很著急\n\n14\n00:04:54,774 --> 00:05:14,500\n所以就會有些不安的一些情緒在所以我想說政府這邊的態度其實會有一點點重要對安定民心的一個狀態我就肯定是重要的啦那我在想說在這邊的時候我再特別再問一個跟台積電有關的就是這幾天因為台積電的金船的先進製程二奈米製程洩密案\n\n15\n00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:35,973\n就是有工程師偷拍照要給日本的這家公司的時候當然就是台積電他的PIP做得很好這點確實是要肯定他的一個機密資訊的保護做得很好可是我在想說為什麼就是在台積電其實他們在這個\n\n16\n00:05:37,794 --> 00:05:51,129\nPIP的部分其實本來就一直都有說很好的教訓可是還是會有工程師或者高階工程師他們去做這樣的事情我不曉得我們國安這邊政府這邊有沒有特別去關注過這個事情\n\n17\n00:05:53,368 --> 00:06:10,588\n這個部分國科會因為他主掌我們關鍵機密技術的部分所以這個在國安法上面會有我們就有做了一些保護那這個案子現在也是檢調在協助調查\n\n18\n00:06:12,650 --> 00:06:31,951\n那所以呢相關的因應的團隊都出現了那就我的了解它並不是全部的資訊第二個事情是很多事情不是看一個paper就會了譬如說不可能你讀一個怎麼投棒球你就可以去打直棒它中間還有很多那台積電事實上\n\n19\n00:06:33,223 --> 00:06:50,346\n就我了解喔他是把他的機密是切一段一段一段一段的所以呢拿到一段沒辦法知道其他的部分其實也很難去所以說就是因為這樣子所以我覺得有工程師他們去冒這個險冒這個國安的一個險的時候我們就覺得很特殊\n\n20\n00:06:51,663 --> 00:07:11,333\n這個在過去很多的企業有喔那我覺得這個案子會給很多人清楚的知道新的國安法會有12年的徒刑我想會讓很多的工程師開始比較謹慎了否則的話過去好多公司都發生過這種類似的然後有跑到其他國家去的都存在\n\n21\n00:07:11,493 --> 00:07:21,492\n而且除了最高12年的一個刑責之外還有1億的一個法源那這個就讓我想這次利用這次應該會讓很多人都看到了\n\n22\n00:07:23,044 --> 00:07:45,433\n好謝謝主委那我這邊再問一個就是有關聯合再生能源這個部分因為就是去年的時候主委有特別提到說已經針對國發基金針對聯合再生啟動那個退場機制的一個狀態可是到目前為止的時候已經快要一年了那8月27號去年的8月27號已經快要一年了請問到目前的時候進度如何\n\n23\n00:07:47,193 --> 00:08:12,441\n這個我可以說明一下因為我們當時這個部分是參與私募那私募如果像我現在是規範私募在公司賺錢的時候我就要時間到就要轉成一般股那一般股就可以在股市買賣那這個當時因為他不賺錢所以就一直留在私募這個部分那私募的話就要整個批量線下交易那他要打折\n\n24\n00:08:12,961 --> 00:08:41,619\n所以我講的狀態就是2018年的時候那時候國發基金要用私募普通股的方式進場的時候因為坦白說那個時候聯合再生的那個表現其實就不是特別的好而且整個國際的一個大環境對於這個光電業的部分的時候其實也不是那麼看好所以我們當時為什麼國發基金會用私募普通股的方式進去我比較關心這決策的一個過程那我們也希望從這過程當中的時候得到一些\n\n25\n00:08:42,679 --> 00:09:11,119\n教訓就是我們在做這樣子的一個投資的一個決策過程當中的時候會不會有一些更好的一個機制更透明的一個機制在當時因為它本身就是就是發行私募那第二次增資我們就是普通股那普通股其實我們有在傾那私募要找買家是比較辛苦一點那的確我們目前的進度是不好的那第二個原因是我們在委員會核定的價格\n\n26\n00:09:11,799 --> 00:09:37,264\n也比較高不符合一般私募的要求那因為我們是獨立性的委員會那國發基金請委員弄的核定以後我們就是依據這個價格進行找買主那我們是有委託兩次其實都非常辛苦那我們現在是這樣子任何的特別股跟私募都要經過我先看過來核定那我得看到特別股的條件\n\n27\n00:09:38,665 --> 00:09:51,656\n那我們我們比以前還謹慎第二個部分我們也開始我也要求所有的我們都檢核一遍就是說只要能夠吻合轉換的我們就一律都轉換那這樣的話就可以在公開市場進行來來來拋售\n\n28\n00:09:55,616 --> 00:10:17,155\n謝謝主委因為你今天報告當中有特別提到了就是那個在整個新動能的部分有提到提升投資動能那裡面提到了一個那個均衡台灣的一個六大區域產業生活圈的部分那因為之前在賴總統24年選舉之前的時候特別提到桃竹苗大細股計畫這部分那我也非常的關注\n\n29\n00:10:17,836 --> 00:10:36,695\n那我想說因為這東西我想說國發會這邊肯定有些管考的一個計畫那我在想說這個桃園大細股計畫的時候後續的進度如何然後會不會這四年當中都還是只是留於一個口號的狀態所以我比較關注的是它的一個具體的一個進度\n\n30\n00:10:38,357 --> 00:10:55,603\n我跟委員報告我們這次我們除了這個我們六大區域裡面的桃竹苗大溪谷是第一個死刑案例那我們其實做了兩件事還做了區域治理什麼區域治理就是說我們當時邀請過桃園市長新竹縣長新竹市長\n\n31\n00:11:00,745 --> 00:11:23,894\n苗栗縣長一起到我們國發會來那我們跟他們說明整個計畫因為這裡面含中央跟地方要一起搭配尤其地方要搭配的是比較屬於生態系的部分包括住宅也好商場也好中央還有學校有醫院等等我們就大家一起\n\n32\n00:11:25,074 --> 00:11:50,093\n把這個計畫做一個商討以後我們建了一個平台是由我們的副主委跟他們的副市長跟縣長大家進行溝通所以就會產生就是說像中央的交通建設我們會做地方的他們要進行規劃那就大家在這個平台上一起在談討所以新竹市也會有新竹市政府當時代理市長也有來那他們也會依據這個部分開始往下規劃\n\n33\n00:11:51,834 --> 00:12:12,582\n我們這個平台是他有遇到困難我們會來探討好謝謝主委那我在想這個部分是我們希望說能夠有具體的進度然後主委把它落實下來然後盡速把它落實下來再盡快看怎麼樣大家可以從中央跟地方之間大家來落實桃園大氣谷好謝謝主委主委平安謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝我們現在請鄭天才委員做詢問\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n383\t13591\t謝謝主席我想請一下國發會的劉諸葳劉諸葳\n22628\t50839\t政委很早主委平安非常感謝今天那個主席安排美國對冷關稅抵定後我國經濟未來的景氣情況及全球佈局的新規劃那坦白說因為目前我們的對冷關稅還沒有抵定還沒有抵定那我在想說不過我們也從這個主委今天的報告當中看到了有一些新的內容包括說你講的新產業新動能跟新佈局這部分\n51799\t72615\t我是想說先再請教一個部分就是說因為目前在整個對冷關稅當中的時候都會碰到幾個狀態就是包括投資金額的一個承諾的一個部分那我想問比方說不管台灣這邊到時候被迫或者是主動要去投資多少的金額企業的投資金額裡面算不算在這個承諾的金額裡頭\n74999\t103253\t我并没有参与谈判但是从日本来看日本的是韩企业投资日本是韩企业对不对对他有抗一部分的那个像孙生义的投资不因为之前AIT他曾经出来讲就说企业的投资的部分可能不算在这个里头你知道这个讯息吗之前那个靖州他本来有一个新闻公布出来之后然后后来很快下架\n104173\t119501\t你有注意到這個訊息嗎?我沒有注意到這個訊息但是我有看到那個日本相關的訊息了所以日本他們是企業投資政府鼓勵企業投資也包含在這個承諾金額裡頭他是看整個國家的投資嘛\n122563\t141692\tOK好那這個部分我想特別問的狀態就是因為台積電就是我們去美國投資當很重要的一個部分那剛很多委員都提到因為護國神山的一個動向洞見觀瞻那因為我們國發基金其實也是目前台積電就是\n142532\t159439\t大概最主要的實質的股東大概佔6.38%的股份其實非常的多所以我們肯定對台積電這邊也會有一些影響力那比方說今天早上川普說他就再度點名你剛才也提到第二次的點名就說台積電要去投2000億\n160740\t178837\t那8月5號的時候台積電是直接只表示說他們要投1650億當中有350億的一個差距的時候我在想說我們國發會我們政府這邊會不會有一些什麼樣子的一個表態還是說直接還是把它推給企業就是說這企業的一個行為\n180584\t199506\t倒不是要推給企業我們一向是支持台積電的決策因為我是董事我可能講錯什麼會造成股市的變動所以我們一般來講從公司治理是由發言人來發言我們不會對單一公司進行發言\n200487\t220404\t那我只是如果從國安會來看今天早上的內容那今天早上的內容他其實又調整到兩千億那第二個事情是主要是他公布出來的是對台積電比較有利就是等於是台積電已經在美國設廠那他就沒有關稅反而其他的競爭者會產生關稅的問題\n222446\t243082\t理解那台積電其實在美國有成熟製程在奧羅岡在有很早就去了然後再加上有先進製程其實目前來講是對他比較利多了我在看目前的狀態我剛才提到這個狀態就是說除了國八基金其實是台積電最重要的實質股東之外的那另外一部分就是說因為台積電對台灣確實影響大\n245123\t272882\t目前承諾1650億美元的時候大概有5兆台幣的一個狀態那我在想說去投資基本上國際全球佈局都是好事啦只是我們也會擔心就是說再多350如果再多350億那就再多1兆台幣的狀態的時候那投資美國跟投資台灣對於我們的一個資本投資一定會有點不太一樣所以我們也希望說政府在這樣子的一個事情當中說也許會有一個態度出來\n273582\t294054\t那讓台積電也許會變成有一個比較好的一個依靠因為有一個最新的新聞因為一大早媒體有報導就是魏哲嘉又急飛美國去那不曉得是什麼事情那我在想說因為就是目前因為整個對等關係還沒有抵定然後很多的企業其實都很擔心都很著急\n294774\t314500\t所以就會有些不安的一些情緒在所以我想說政府這邊的態度其實會有一點點重要對安定民心的一個狀態我就肯定是重要的啦那我在想說在這邊的時候我再特別再問一個跟台積電有關的就是這幾天因為台積電的金船的先進製程二奈米製程洩密案\n315360\t335973\t就是有工程師偷拍照要給日本的這家公司的時候當然就是台積電他的PIP做得很好這點確實是要肯定他的一個機密資訊的保護做得很好可是我在想說為什麼就是在台積電其實他們在這個\n337794\t351129\tPIP的部分其實本來就一直都有說很好的教訓可是還是會有工程師或者高階工程師他們去做這樣的事情我不曉得我們國安這邊政府這邊有沒有特別去關注過這個事情\n353368\t370588\t這個部分國科會因為他主掌我們關鍵機密技術的部分所以這個在國安法上面會有我們就有做了一些保護那這個案子現在也是檢調在協助調查\n372650\t391951\t那所以呢相關的因應的團隊都出現了那就我的了解它並不是全部的資訊第二個事情是很多事情不是看一個paper就會了譬如說不可能你讀一個怎麼投棒球你就可以去打直棒它中間還有很多那台積電事實上\n393223\t410346\t就我了解喔他是把他的機密是切一段一段一段一段的所以呢拿到一段沒辦法知道其他的部分其實也很難去所以說就是因為這樣子所以我覺得有工程師他們去冒這個險冒這個國安的一個險的時候我們就覺得很特殊\n411663\t431333\t這個在過去很多的企業有喔那我覺得這個案子會給很多人清楚的知道新的國安法會有12年的徒刑我想會讓很多的工程師開始比較謹慎了否則的話過去好多公司都發生過這種類似的然後有跑到其他國家去的都存在\n431493\t441492\t而且除了最高12年的一個刑責之外還有1億的一個法源那這個就讓我想這次利用這次應該會讓很多人都看到了\n443044\t465433\t好謝謝主委那我這邊再問一個就是有關聯合再生能源這個部分因為就是去年的時候主委有特別提到說已經針對國發基金針對聯合再生啟動那個退場機制的一個狀態可是到目前為止的時候已經快要一年了那8月27號去年的8月27號已經快要一年了請問到目前的時候進度如何\n467193\t492441\t這個我可以說明一下因為我們當時這個部分是參與私募那私募如果像我現在是規範私募在公司賺錢的時候我就要時間到就要轉成一般股那一般股就可以在股市買賣那這個當時因為他不賺錢所以就一直留在私募這個部分那私募的話就要整個批量線下交易那他要打折\n492961\t521619\t所以我講的狀態就是2018年的時候那時候國發基金要用私募普通股的方式進場的時候因為坦白說那個時候聯合再生的那個表現其實就不是特別的好而且整個國際的一個大環境對於這個光電業的部分的時候其實也不是那麼看好所以我們當時為什麼國發基金會用私募普通股的方式進去我比較關心這決策的一個過程那我們也希望從這過程當中的時候得到一些\n522679\t551119\t教訓就是我們在做這樣子的一個投資的一個決策過程當中的時候會不會有一些更好的一個機制更透明的一個機制在當時因為它本身就是就是發行私募那第二次增資我們就是普通股那普通股其實我們有在傾那私募要找買家是比較辛苦一點那的確我們目前的進度是不好的那第二個原因是我們在委員會核定的價格\n551799\t577264\t也比較高不符合一般私募的要求那因為我們是獨立性的委員會那國發基金請委員弄的核定以後我們就是依據這個價格進行找買主那我們是有委託兩次其實都非常辛苦那我們現在是這樣子任何的特別股跟私募都要經過我先看過來核定那我得看到特別股的條件\n578665\t591656\t那我們我們比以前還謹慎第二個部分我們也開始我也要求所有的我們都檢核一遍就是說只要能夠吻合轉換的我們就一律都轉換那這樣的話就可以在公開市場進行來來來拋售\n595616\t617155\t謝謝主委因為你今天報告當中有特別提到了就是那個在整個新動能的部分有提到提升投資動能那裡面提到了一個那個均衡台灣的一個六大區域產業生活圈的部分那因為之前在賴總統24年選舉之前的時候特別提到桃竹苗大細股計畫這部分那我也非常的關注\n617836\t636695\t那我想說因為這東西我想說國發會這邊肯定有些管考的一個計畫那我在想說這個桃園大細股計畫的時候後續的進度如何然後會不會這四年當中都還是只是留於一個口號的狀態所以我比較關注的是它的一個具體的一個進度\n638357\t655603\t我跟委員報告我們這次我們除了這個我們六大區域裡面的桃竹苗大溪谷是第一個死刑案例那我們其實做了兩件事還做了區域治理什麼區域治理就是說我們當時邀請過桃園市長新竹縣長新竹市長\n660745\t683894\t苗栗縣長一起到我們國發會來那我們跟他們說明整個計畫因為這裡面含中央跟地方要一起搭配尤其地方要搭配的是比較屬於生態系的部分包括住宅也好 商場也好中央還有學校 有醫院等等我們就大家一起\n685074\t710093\t把這個計畫做一個商討以後我們建了一個平台是由我們的副主委跟他們的副市長跟縣長大家進行溝通所以就會產生就是說像中央的交通建設我們會做地方的他們要進行規劃那就大家在這個平台上一起在談討所以新竹市也會有新竹市政府當時代理市長也有來那他們也會依據這個部分開始往下規劃\n711834\t732582\t我們這個平台是他有遇到困難我們會來探討好 謝謝主委那我在想這個部分是我們希望說能夠有具體的進度然後主委把它落實下來然後盡速把它落實下來再盡快看怎麼樣大家可以從中央跟地方之間大家來落實桃園大氣谷好 謝謝主委主委平安 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們現在請鄭天才委員做詢問\n","txt":"謝謝主席我想請一下國發會的劉諸葳劉諸葳\n政委很早主委平安非常感謝今天那個主席安排美國對冷關稅抵定後我國經濟未來的景氣情況及全球佈局的新規劃那坦白說因為目前我們的對冷關稅還沒有抵定還沒有抵定那我在想說不過我們也從這個主委今天的報告當中看到了有一些新的內容包括說你講的新產業新動能跟新佈局這部分\n我是想說先再請教一個部分就是說因為目前在整個對冷關稅當中的時候都會碰到幾個狀態就是包括投資金額的一個承諾的一個部分那我想問比方說不管台灣這邊到時候被迫或者是主動要去投資多少的金額企業的投資金額裡面算不算在這個承諾的金額裡頭\n我并没有参与谈判但是从日本来看日本的是韩企业投资日本是韩企业对不对对他有抗一部分的那个像孙生义的投资不因为之前AIT他曾经出来讲就说企业的投资的部分可能不算在这个里头你知道这个讯息吗之前那个靖州他本来有一个新闻公布出来之后然后后来很快下架\n你有注意到這個訊息嗎?我沒有注意到這個訊息但是我有看到那個日本相關的訊息了所以日本他們是企業投資政府鼓勵企業投資也包含在這個承諾金額裡頭他是看整個國家的投資嘛\nOK好那這個部分我想特別問的狀態就是因為台積電就是我們去美國投資當很重要的一個部分那剛很多委員都提到因為護國神山的一個動向洞見觀瞻那因為我們國發基金其實也是目前台積電就是\n大概最主要的實質的股東大概佔6.38%的股份其實非常的多所以我們肯定對台積電這邊也會有一些影響力那比方說今天早上川普說他就再度點名你剛才也提到第二次的點名就說台積電要去投2000億\n那8月5號的時候台積電是直接只表示說他們要投1650億當中有350億的一個差距的時候我在想說我們國發會我們政府這邊會不會有一些什麼樣子的一個表態還是說直接還是把它推給企業就是說這企業的一個行為\n倒不是要推給企業我們一向是支持台積電的決策因為我是董事我可能講錯什麼會造成股市的變動所以我們一般來講從公司治理是由發言人來發言我們不會對單一公司進行發言\n那我只是如果從國安會來看今天早上的內容那今天早上的內容他其實又調整到兩千億那第二個事情是主要是他公布出來的是對台積電比較有利就是等於是台積電已經在美國設廠那他就沒有關稅反而其他的競爭者會產生關稅的問題\n理解那台積電其實在美國有成熟製程在奧羅岡在有很早就去了然後再加上有先進製程其實目前來講是對他比較利多了我在看目前的狀態我剛才提到這個狀態就是說除了國八基金其實是台積電最重要的實質股東之外的那另外一部分就是說因為台積電對台灣確實影響大\n目前承諾1650億美元的時候大概有5兆台幣的一個狀態那我在想說去投資基本上國際全球佈局都是好事啦只是我們也會擔心就是說再多350如果再多350億那就再多1兆台幣的狀態的時候那投資美國跟投資台灣對於我們的一個資本投資一定會有點不太一樣所以我們也希望說政府在這樣子的一個事情當中說也許會有一個態度出來\n那讓台積電也許會變成有一個比較好的一個依靠因為有一個最新的新聞因為一大早媒體有報導就是魏哲嘉又急飛美國去那不曉得是什麼事情那我在想說因為就是目前因為整個對等關係還沒有抵定然後很多的企業其實都很擔心都很著急\n所以就會有些不安的一些情緒在所以我想說政府這邊的態度其實會有一點點重要對安定民心的一個狀態我就肯定是重要的啦那我在想說在這邊的時候我再特別再問一個跟台積電有關的就是這幾天因為台積電的金船的先進製程二奈米製程洩密案\n就是有工程師偷拍照要給日本的這家公司的時候當然就是台積電他的PIP做得很好這點確實是要肯定他的一個機密資訊的保護做得很好可是我在想說為什麼就是在台積電其實他們在這個\nPIP的部分其實本來就一直都有說很好的教訓可是還是會有工程師或者高階工程師他們去做這樣的事情我不曉得我們國安這邊政府這邊有沒有特別去關注過這個事情\n這個部分國科會因為他主掌我們關鍵機密技術的部分所以這個在國安法上面會有我們就有做了一些保護那這個案子現在也是檢調在協助調查\n那所以呢相關的因應的團隊都出現了那就我的了解它並不是全部的資訊第二個事情是很多事情不是看一個paper就會了譬如說不可能你讀一個怎麼投棒球你就可以去打直棒它中間還有很多那台積電事實上\n就我了解喔他是把他的機密是切一段一段一段一段的所以呢拿到一段沒辦法知道其他的部分其實也很難去所以說就是因為這樣子所以我覺得有工程師他們去冒這個險冒這個國安的一個險的時候我們就覺得很特殊\n這個在過去很多的企業有喔那我覺得這個案子會給很多人清楚的知道新的國安法會有12年的徒刑我想會讓很多的工程師開始比較謹慎了否則的話過去好多公司都發生過這種類似的然後有跑到其他國家去的都存在\n而且除了最高12年的一個刑責之外還有1億的一個法源那這個就讓我想這次利用這次應該會讓很多人都看到了\n好謝謝主委那我這邊再問一個就是有關聯合再生能源這個部分因為就是去年的時候主委有特別提到說已經針對國發基金針對聯合再生啟動那個退場機制的一個狀態可是到目前為止的時候已經快要一年了那8月27號去年的8月27號已經快要一年了請問到目前的時候進度如何\n這個我可以說明一下因為我們當時這個部分是參與私募那私募如果像我現在是規範私募在公司賺錢的時候我就要時間到就要轉成一般股那一般股就可以在股市買賣那這個當時因為他不賺錢所以就一直留在私募這個部分那私募的話就要整個批量線下交易那他要打折\n所以我講的狀態就是2018年的時候那時候國發基金要用私募普通股的方式進場的時候因為坦白說那個時候聯合再生的那個表現其實就不是特別的好而且整個國際的一個大環境對於這個光電業的部分的時候其實也不是那麼看好所以我們當時為什麼國發基金會用私募普通股的方式進去我比較關心這決策的一個過程那我們也希望從這過程當中的時候得到一些\n教訓就是我們在做這樣子的一個投資的一個決策過程當中的時候會不會有一些更好的一個機制更透明的一個機制在當時因為它本身就是就是發行私募那第二次增資我們就是普通股那普通股其實我們有在傾那私募要找買家是比較辛苦一點那的確我們目前的進度是不好的那第二個原因是我們在委員會核定的價格\n也比較高不符合一般私募的要求那因為我們是獨立性的委員會那國發基金請委員弄的核定以後我們就是依據這個價格進行找買主那我們是有委託兩次其實都非常辛苦那我們現在是這樣子任何的特別股跟私募都要經過我先看過來核定那我得看到特別股的條件\n那我們我們比以前還謹慎第二個部分我們也開始我也要求所有的我們都檢核一遍就是說只要能夠吻合轉換的我們就一律都轉換那這樣的話就可以在公開市場進行來來來拋售\n謝謝主委因為你今天報告當中有特別提到了就是那個在整個新動能的部分有提到提升投資動能那裡面提到了一個那個均衡台灣的一個六大區域產業生活圈的部分那因為之前在賴總統24年選舉之前的時候特別提到桃竹苗大細股計畫這部分那我也非常的關注\n那我想說因為這東西我想說國發會這邊肯定有些管考的一個計畫那我在想說這個桃園大細股計畫的時候後續的進度如何然後會不會這四年當中都還是只是留於一個口號的狀態所以我比較關注的是它的一個具體的一個進度\n我跟委員報告我們這次我們除了這個我們六大區域裡面的桃竹苗大溪谷是第一個死刑案例那我們其實做了兩件事還做了區域治理什麼區域治理就是說我們當時邀請過桃園市長新竹縣長新竹市長\n苗栗縣長一起到我們國發會來那我們跟他們說明整個計畫因為這裡面含中央跟地方要一起搭配尤其地方要搭配的是比較屬於生態系的部分包括住宅也好 商場也好中央還有學校 有醫院等等我們就大家一起\n把這個計畫做一個商討以後我們建了一個平台是由我們的副主委跟他們的副市長跟縣長大家進行溝通所以就會產生就是說像中央的交通建設我們會做地方的他們要進行規劃那就大家在這個平台上一起在談討所以新竹市也會有新竹市政府當時代理市長也有來那他們也會依據這個部分開始往下規劃\n我們這個平台是他有遇到困難我們會來探討好 謝謝主委那我在想這個部分是我們希望說能夠有具體的進度然後主委把它落實下來然後盡速把它落實下來再盡快看怎麼樣大家可以從中央跟地方之間大家來落實桃園大氣谷好 謝謝主委主委平安 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們現在請鄭天才委員做詢問\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.383 --> 00:13.591\n謝謝主席我想請一下國發會的劉諸葳劉諸葳\n\n00:22.628 --> 00:50.839\n政委很早主委平安非常感謝今天那個主席安排美國對冷關稅抵定後我國經濟未來的景氣情況及全球佈局的新規劃那坦白說因為目前我們的對冷關稅還沒有抵定還沒有抵定那我在想說不過我們也從這個主委今天的報告當中看到了有一些新的內容包括說你講的新產業新動能跟新佈局這部分\n\n00:51.799 --> 01:12.615\n我是想說先再請教一個部分就是說因為目前在整個對冷關稅當中的時候都會碰到幾個狀態就是包括投資金額的一個承諾的一個部分那我想問比方說不管台灣這邊到時候被迫或者是主動要去投資多少的金額企業的投資金額裡面算不算在這個承諾的金額裡頭\n\n01:14.999 --> 01:43.253\n我并没有参与谈判但是从日本来看日本的是韩企业投资日本是韩企业对不对对他有抗一部分的那个像孙生义的投资不因为之前AIT他曾经出来讲就说企业的投资的部分可能不算在这个里头你知道这个讯息吗之前那个靖州他本来有一个新闻公布出来之后然后后来很快下架\n\n01:44.173 --> 01:59.501\n你有注意到這個訊息嗎?我沒有注意到這個訊息但是我有看到那個日本相關的訊息了所以日本他們是企業投資政府鼓勵企業投資也包含在這個承諾金額裡頭他是看整個國家的投資嘛\n\n02:02.563 --> 02:21.692\nOK好那這個部分我想特別問的狀態就是因為台積電就是我們去美國投資當很重要的一個部分那剛很多委員都提到因為護國神山的一個動向洞見觀瞻那因為我們國發基金其實也是目前台積電就是\n\n02:22.532 --> 02:39.439\n大概最主要的實質的股東大概佔6.38%的股份其實非常的多所以我們肯定對台積電這邊也會有一些影響力那比方說今天早上川普說他就再度點名你剛才也提到第二次的點名就說台積電要去投2000億\n\n02:40.740 --> 02:58.837\n那8月5號的時候台積電是直接只表示說他們要投1650億當中有350億的一個差距的時候我在想說我們國發會我們政府這邊會不會有一些什麼樣子的一個表態還是說直接還是把它推給企業就是說這企業的一個行為\n\n03:00.584 --> 03:19.506\n倒不是要推給企業我們一向是支持台積電的決策因為我是董事我可能講錯什麼會造成股市的變動所以我們一般來講從公司治理是由發言人來發言我們不會對單一公司進行發言\n\n03:20.487 --> 03:40.404\n那我只是如果從國安會來看今天早上的內容那今天早上的內容他其實又調整到兩千億那第二個事情是主要是他公布出來的是對台積電比較有利就是等於是台積電已經在美國設廠那他就沒有關稅反而其他的競爭者會產生關稅的問題\n\n03:42.446 --> 04:03.082\n理解那台積電其實在美國有成熟製程在奧羅岡在有很早就去了然後再加上有先進製程其實目前來講是對他比較利多了我在看目前的狀態我剛才提到這個狀態就是說除了國八基金其實是台積電最重要的實質股東之外的那另外一部分就是說因為台積電對台灣確實影響大\n\n04:05.123 --> 04:32.882\n目前承諾1650億美元的時候大概有5兆台幣的一個狀態那我在想說去投資基本上國際全球佈局都是好事啦只是我們也會擔心就是說再多350如果再多350億那就再多1兆台幣的狀態的時候那投資美國跟投資台灣對於我們的一個資本投資一定會有點不太一樣所以我們也希望說政府在這樣子的一個事情當中說也許會有一個態度出來\n\n04:33.582 --> 04:54.054\n那讓台積電也許會變成有一個比較好的一個依靠因為有一個最新的新聞因為一大早媒體有報導就是魏哲嘉又急飛美國去那不曉得是什麼事情那我在想說因為就是目前因為整個對等關係還沒有抵定然後很多的企業其實都很擔心都很著急\n\n04:54.774 --> 05:14.500\n所以就會有些不安的一些情緒在所以我想說政府這邊的態度其實會有一點點重要對安定民心的一個狀態我就肯定是重要的啦那我在想說在這邊的時候我再特別再問一個跟台積電有關的就是這幾天因為台積電的金船的先進製程二奈米製程洩密案\n\n05:15.360 --> 05:35.973\n就是有工程師偷拍照要給日本的這家公司的時候當然就是台積電他的PIP做得很好這點確實是要肯定他的一個機密資訊的保護做得很好可是我在想說為什麼就是在台積電其實他們在這個\n\n05:37.794 --> 05:51.129\nPIP的部分其實本來就一直都有說很好的教訓可是還是會有工程師或者高階工程師他們去做這樣的事情我不曉得我們國安這邊政府這邊有沒有特別去關注過這個事情\n\n05:53.368 --> 06:10.588\n這個部分國科會因為他主掌我們關鍵機密技術的部分所以這個在國安法上面會有我們就有做了一些保護那這個案子現在也是檢調在協助調查\n\n06:12.650 --> 06:31.951\n那所以呢相關的因應的團隊都出現了那就我的了解它並不是全部的資訊第二個事情是很多事情不是看一個paper就會了譬如說不可能你讀一個怎麼投棒球你就可以去打直棒它中間還有很多那台積電事實上\n\n06:33.223 --> 06:50.346\n就我了解喔他是把他的機密是切一段一段一段一段的所以呢拿到一段沒辦法知道其他的部分其實也很難去所以說就是因為這樣子所以我覺得有工程師他們去冒這個險冒這個國安的一個險的時候我們就覺得很特殊\n\n06:51.663 --> 07:11.333\n這個在過去很多的企業有喔那我覺得這個案子會給很多人清楚的知道新的國安法會有12年的徒刑我想會讓很多的工程師開始比較謹慎了否則的話過去好多公司都發生過這種類似的然後有跑到其他國家去的都存在\n\n07:11.493 --> 07:21.492\n而且除了最高12年的一個刑責之外還有1億的一個法源那這個就讓我想這次利用這次應該會讓很多人都看到了\n\n07:23.044 --> 07:45.433\n好謝謝主委那我這邊再問一個就是有關聯合再生能源這個部分因為就是去年的時候主委有特別提到說已經針對國發基金針對聯合再生啟動那個退場機制的一個狀態可是到目前為止的時候已經快要一年了那8月27號去年的8月27號已經快要一年了請問到目前的時候進度如何\n\n07:47.193 --> 08:12.441\n這個我可以說明一下因為我們當時這個部分是參與私募那私募如果像我現在是規範私募在公司賺錢的時候我就要時間到就要轉成一般股那一般股就可以在股市買賣那這個當時因為他不賺錢所以就一直留在私募這個部分那私募的話就要整個批量線下交易那他要打折\n\n08:12.961 --> 08:41.619\n所以我講的狀態就是2018年的時候那時候國發基金要用私募普通股的方式進場的時候因為坦白說那個時候聯合再生的那個表現其實就不是特別的好而且整個國際的一個大環境對於這個光電業的部分的時候其實也不是那麼看好所以我們當時為什麼國發基金會用私募普通股的方式進去我比較關心這決策的一個過程那我們也希望從這過程當中的時候得到一些\n\n08:42.679 --> 09:11.119\n教訓就是我們在做這樣子的一個投資的一個決策過程當中的時候會不會有一些更好的一個機制更透明的一個機制在當時因為它本身就是就是發行私募那第二次增資我們就是普通股那普通股其實我們有在傾那私募要找買家是比較辛苦一點那的確我們目前的進度是不好的那第二個原因是我們在委員會核定的價格\n\n09:11.799 --> 09:37.264\n也比較高不符合一般私募的要求那因為我們是獨立性的委員會那國發基金請委員弄的核定以後我們就是依據這個價格進行找買主那我們是有委託兩次其實都非常辛苦那我們現在是這樣子任何的特別股跟私募都要經過我先看過來核定那我得看到特別股的條件\n\n09:38.665 --> 09:51.656\n那我們我們比以前還謹慎第二個部分我們也開始我也要求所有的我們都檢核一遍就是說只要能夠吻合轉換的我們就一律都轉換那這樣的話就可以在公開市場進行來來來拋售\n\n09:55.616 --> 10:17.155\n謝謝主委因為你今天報告當中有特別提到了就是那個在整個新動能的部分有提到提升投資動能那裡面提到了一個那個均衡台灣的一個六大區域產業生活圈的部分那因為之前在賴總統24年選舉之前的時候特別提到桃竹苗大細股計畫這部分那我也非常的關注\n\n10:17.836 --> 10:36.695\n那我想說因為這東西我想說國發會這邊肯定有些管考的一個計畫那我在想說這個桃園大細股計畫的時候後續的進度如何然後會不會這四年當中都還是只是留於一個口號的狀態所以我比較關注的是它的一個具體的一個進度\n\n10:38.357 --> 10:55.603\n我跟委員報告我們這次我們除了這個我們六大區域裡面的桃竹苗大溪谷是第一個死刑案例那我們其實做了兩件事還做了區域治理什麼區域治理就是說我們當時邀請過桃園市長新竹縣長新竹市長\n\n11:00.745 --> 11:23.894\n苗栗縣長一起到我們國發會來那我們跟他們說明整個計畫因為這裡面含中央跟地方要一起搭配尤其地方要搭配的是比較屬於生態系的部分包括住宅也好商場也好中央還有學校有醫院等等我們就大家一起\n\n11:25.074 --> 11:50.093\n把這個計畫做一個商討以後我們建了一個平台是由我們的副主委跟他們的副市長跟縣長大家進行溝通所以就會產生就是說像中央的交通建設我們會做地方的他們要進行規劃那就大家在這個平台上一起在談討所以新竹市也會有新竹市政府當時代理市長也有來那他們也會依據這個部分開始往下規劃\n\n11:51.834 --> 12:12.582\n我們這個平台是他有遇到困難我們會來探討好謝謝主委那我在想這個部分是我們希望說能夠有具體的進度然後主委把它落實下來然後盡速把它落實下來再盡快看怎麼樣大家可以從中央跟地方之間大家來落實桃園大氣谷好謝謝主委主委平安謝謝好謝謝謝謝委員好謝謝我們現在請鄭天才委員做詢問\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.383,"end":13.591,"text":"謝謝主席我想請一下國發會的劉諸葳劉諸葳"},{"start":22.628,"end":50.839,"text":"政委很早主委平安非常感謝今天那個主席安排美國對冷關稅抵定後我國經濟未來的景氣情況及全球佈局的新規劃那坦白說因為目前我們的對冷關稅還沒有抵定還沒有抵定那我在想說不過我們也從這個主委今天的報告當中看到了有一些新的內容包括說你講的新產業新動能跟新佈局這部分"},{"start":51.799,"end":72.615,"text":"我是想說先再請教一個部分就是說因為目前在整個對冷關稅當中的時候都會碰到幾個狀態就是包括投資金額的一個承諾的一個部分那我想問比方說不管台灣這邊到時候被迫或者是主動要去投資多少的金額企業的投資金額裡面算不算在這個承諾的金額裡頭"},{"start":74.999,"end":103.253,"text":"我并没有参与谈判但是从日本来看日本的是韩企业投资日本是韩企业对不对对他有抗一部分的那个像孙生义的投资不因为之前AIT他曾经出来讲就说企业的投资的部分可能不算在这个里头你知道这个讯息吗之前那个靖州他本来有一个新闻公布出来之后然后后来很快下架"},{"start":104.173,"end":119.501,"text":"你有注意到這個訊息嗎?我沒有注意到這個訊息但是我有看到那個日本相關的訊息了所以日本他們是企業投資政府鼓勵企業投資也包含在這個承諾金額裡頭他是看整個國家的投資嘛"},{"start":122.563,"end":141.692,"text":"OK好那這個部分我想特別問的狀態就是因為台積電就是我們去美國投資當很重要的一個部分那剛很多委員都提到因為護國神山的一個動向洞見觀瞻那因為我們國發基金其實也是目前台積電就是"},{"start":142.532,"end":159.439,"text":"大概最主要的實質的股東大概佔6.38%的股份其實非常的多所以我們肯定對台積電這邊也會有一些影響力那比方說今天早上川普說他就再度點名你剛才也提到第二次的點名就說台積電要去投2000億"},{"start":160.74,"end":178.837,"text":"那8月5號的時候台積電是直接只表示說他們要投1650億當中有350億的一個差距的時候我在想說我們國發會我們政府這邊會不會有一些什麼樣子的一個表態還是說直接還是把它推給企業就是說這企業的一個行為"},{"start":180.584,"end":199.506,"text":"倒不是要推給企業我們一向是支持台積電的決策因為我是董事我可能講錯什麼會造成股市的變動所以我們一般來講從公司治理是由發言人來發言我們不會對單一公司進行發言"},{"start":200.487,"end":220.404,"text":"那我只是如果從國安會來看今天早上的內容那今天早上的內容他其實又調整到兩千億那第二個事情是主要是他公布出來的是對台積電比較有利就是等於是台積電已經在美國設廠那他就沒有關稅反而其他的競爭者會產生關稅的問題"},{"start":222.446,"end":243.082,"text":"理解那台積電其實在美國有成熟製程在奧羅岡在有很早就去了然後再加上有先進製程其實目前來講是對他比較利多了我在看目前的狀態我剛才提到這個狀態就是說除了國八基金其實是台積電最重要的實質股東之外的那另外一部分就是說因為台積電對台灣確實影響大"},{"start":245.123,"end":272.882,"text":"目前承諾1650億美元的時候大概有5兆台幣的一個狀態那我在想說去投資基本上國際全球佈局都是好事啦只是我們也會擔心就是說再多350如果再多350億那就再多1兆台幣的狀態的時候那投資美國跟投資台灣對於我們的一個資本投資一定會有點不太一樣所以我們也希望說政府在這樣子的一個事情當中說也許會有一個態度出來"},{"start":273.582,"end":294.054,"text":"那讓台積電也許會變成有一個比較好的一個依靠因為有一個最新的新聞因為一大早媒體有報導就是魏哲嘉又急飛美國去那不曉得是什麼事情那我在想說因為就是目前因為整個對等關係還沒有抵定然後很多的企業其實都很擔心都很著急"},{"start":294.774,"end":314.5,"text":"所以就會有些不安的一些情緒在所以我想說政府這邊的態度其實會有一點點重要對安定民心的一個狀態我就肯定是重要的啦那我在想說在這邊的時候我再特別再問一個跟台積電有關的就是這幾天因為台積電的金船的先進製程二奈米製程洩密案"},{"start":315.36,"end":335.973,"text":"就是有工程師偷拍照要給日本的這家公司的時候當然就是台積電他的PIP做得很好這點確實是要肯定他的一個機密資訊的保護做得很好可是我在想說為什麼就是在台積電其實他們在這個"},{"start":337.794,"end":351.129,"text":"PIP的部分其實本來就一直都有說很好的教訓可是還是會有工程師或者高階工程師他們去做這樣的事情我不曉得我們國安這邊政府這邊有沒有特別去關注過這個事情"},{"start":353.368,"end":370.588,"text":"這個部分國科會因為他主掌我們關鍵機密技術的部分所以這個在國安法上面會有我們就有做了一些保護那這個案子現在也是檢調在協助調查"},{"start":372.65,"end":391.951,"text":"那所以呢相關的因應的團隊都出現了那就我的了解它並不是全部的資訊第二個事情是很多事情不是看一個paper就會了譬如說不可能你讀一個怎麼投棒球你就可以去打直棒它中間還有很多那台積電事實上"},{"start":393.223,"end":410.346,"text":"就我了解喔他是把他的機密是切一段一段一段一段的所以呢拿到一段沒辦法知道其他的部分其實也很難去所以說就是因為這樣子所以我覺得有工程師他們去冒這個險冒這個國安的一個險的時候我們就覺得很特殊"},{"start":411.663,"end":431.333,"text":"這個在過去很多的企業有喔那我覺得這個案子會給很多人清楚的知道新的國安法會有12年的徒刑我想會讓很多的工程師開始比較謹慎了否則的話過去好多公司都發生過這種類似的然後有跑到其他國家去的都存在"},{"start":431.493,"end":441.492,"text":"而且除了最高12年的一個刑責之外還有1億的一個法源那這個就讓我想這次利用這次應該會讓很多人都看到了"},{"start":443.044,"end":465.433,"text":"好謝謝主委那我這邊再問一個就是有關聯合再生能源這個部分因為就是去年的時候主委有特別提到說已經針對國發基金針對聯合再生啟動那個退場機制的一個狀態可是到目前為止的時候已經快要一年了那8月27號去年的8月27號已經快要一年了請問到目前的時候進度如何"},{"start":467.193,"end":492.441,"text":"這個我可以說明一下因為我們當時這個部分是參與私募那私募如果像我現在是規範私募在公司賺錢的時候我就要時間到就要轉成一般股那一般股就可以在股市買賣那這個當時因為他不賺錢所以就一直留在私募這個部分那私募的話就要整個批量線下交易那他要打折"},{"start":492.961,"end":521.619,"text":"所以我講的狀態就是2018年的時候那時候國發基金要用私募普通股的方式進場的時候因為坦白說那個時候聯合再生的那個表現其實就不是特別的好而且整個國際的一個大環境對於這個光電業的部分的時候其實也不是那麼看好所以我們當時為什麼國發基金會用私募普通股的方式進去我比較關心這決策的一個過程那我們也希望從這過程當中的時候得到一些"},{"start":522.679,"end":551.119,"text":"教訓就是我們在做這樣子的一個投資的一個決策過程當中的時候會不會有一些更好的一個機制更透明的一個機制在當時因為它本身就是就是發行私募那第二次增資我們就是普通股那普通股其實我們有在傾那私募要找買家是比較辛苦一點那的確我們目前的進度是不好的那第二個原因是我們在委員會核定的價格"},{"start":551.799,"end":577.264,"text":"也比較高不符合一般私募的要求那因為我們是獨立性的委員會那國發基金請委員弄的核定以後我們就是依據這個價格進行找買主那我們是有委託兩次其實都非常辛苦那我們現在是這樣子任何的特別股跟私募都要經過我先看過來核定那我得看到特別股的條件"},{"start":578.665,"end":591.656,"text":"那我們我們比以前還謹慎第二個部分我們也開始我也要求所有的我們都檢核一遍就是說只要能夠吻合轉換的我們就一律都轉換那這樣的話就可以在公開市場進行來來來拋售"},{"start":595.616,"end":617.155,"text":"謝謝主委因為你今天報告當中有特別提到了就是那個在整個新動能的部分有提到提升投資動能那裡面提到了一個那個均衡台灣的一個六大區域產業生活圈的部分那因為之前在賴總統24年選舉之前的時候特別提到桃竹苗大細股計畫這部分那我也非常的關注"},{"start":617.836,"end":636.695,"text":"那我想說因為這東西我想說國發會這邊肯定有些管考的一個計畫那我在想說這個桃園大細股計畫的時候後續的進度如何然後會不會這四年當中都還是只是留於一個口號的狀態所以我比較關注的是它的一個具體的一個進度"},{"start":638.357,"end":655.603,"text":"我跟委員報告我們這次我們除了這個我們六大區域裡面的桃竹苗大溪谷是第一個死刑案例那我們其實做了兩件事還做了區域治理什麼區域治理就是說我們當時邀請過桃園市長新竹縣長新竹市長"},{"start":660.745,"end":683.894,"text":"苗栗縣長一起到我們國發會來那我們跟他們說明整個計畫因為這裡面含中央跟地方要一起搭配尤其地方要搭配的是比較屬於生態系的部分包括住宅也好 商場也好中央還有學校 有醫院等等我們就大家一起"},{"start":685.074,"end":710.093,"text":"把這個計畫做一個商討以後我們建了一個平台是由我們的副主委跟他們的副市長跟縣長大家進行溝通所以就會產生就是說像中央的交通建設我們會做地方的他們要進行規劃那就大家在這個平台上一起在談討所以新竹市也會有新竹市政府當時代理市長也有來那他們也會依據這個部分開始往下規劃"},{"start":711.834,"end":732.582,"text":"我們這個平台是他有遇到困難我們會來探討好 謝謝主委那我在想這個部分是我們希望說能夠有具體的進度然後主委把它落實下來然後盡速把它落實下來再盡快看怎麼樣大家可以從中央跟地方之間大家來落實桃園大氣谷好 謝謝主委主委平安 謝謝好 謝謝 謝謝委員好 謝謝我們現在請鄭天才委員做詢問"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":309,"blocks":[["鄭委員正鈐：（10時5分）謝謝主席，我想請國發會劉主委。"],["主席：劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：鄭委員早。"],["鄭委員正鈐：主委平安。非常感謝今天主席的安排，針對「美國對等關稅底定後，我國經濟未來之景氣情況及產業全球佈局新規劃」，坦白說，因為目前我們的對等關稅還沒有底定，不過我們也從主委今天的報告當中看到了一些新的內容，包括你講的「新產業、新動能、新佈局」這部分。","我再請教一個部分，因為目前在整個對等關稅當中都會碰到幾個狀態，包括投資金額的承諾部分，那我想問，比方說不管臺灣這邊到時候被迫或者是主動要去投資多少的金額，企業的投資金額裡面，算不算在這個承諾的金額裡頭？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我並沒有參與談判，但從日本來看，日本的是含企業投資。"],["鄭委員正鈐：日本是含企業，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，它有一部分的那個……像孫正義的投資，媒體……"],["鄭委員正鈐：不過因為之前AIT曾經出來講，就是企業的投資部分可能不算在這裡頭，你知道這個訊息嗎？之前鏡週刊本來有一個新聞公布出來，後來很快下架，你有注意到這個訊息嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我沒有注意到這個訊息，但是我有看到日本相關的訊息。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，所以日本他們是企業投資，政府鼓勵企業投資，也包含在這個承諾金額裡頭？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，它是……"],["鄭委員正鈐：5,500億裡頭？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：看整個國家的投資嘛！"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，這個部分我想特別問的狀態就是，台積電是我們去美國投資當中很重要的一個部分，剛剛很多委員也都提到，護國神山的動向是動見觀瞻，因為我們國發基金其實也是目前台積電最主要的實質股東，大概占6.38%股份，其實非常多，所以我們肯定對台積電這邊也會有一些影響力。今天早上川普說了，他再度點名，你剛才也提到，第二次點名，就是說台積電要去投2,000億。而8月5號的時候，台積電是直接表示他們要投1,650億，這當中有350億差距，我在想我們國發會、政府這邊會不會有一些什麼樣的表態，還是直接把它推給企業，就說這是企業的一個行為？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：倒不是要推給企業，我們一向是支持台積電的決策。因為我是董事，我可能講錯什麼會造成股市的變動，所以我們一般來講，從公司治理是由發言人來發言，我們不會對單一公司進行發言。如果從國發會來看，今天早上的內容，他其實又調整到2,000億。第二個事情，主要是他公布出來的是對台積電比較有利的，就等於是台積電已經在美國設廠，那它就沒有關稅，反而其他的競爭者會產生關稅的問題。"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：台積電其實在美國有成熟製程，在奧勒岡，很早就去了，然後再加上有先進製程，其實目前來講是對它比較利多，我在看目前的狀態……"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，我剛剛特別提到這個狀態就是，除了國發基金其實是台積電最重要的實質股東之外，另外一部分，因為台積電對臺灣確實影響很大，目前承諾1,650億美元，大概有5兆臺幣。那我在想說去投資，基本上國際、全球布局都是好事，只是我們也會擔心，如果再多350億，那就是再多1兆臺幣，那投資美國跟投資臺灣，對於我們的資本投資一定會有點不太一樣，所以我們也希望政府在這樣的過程當中能有一個態度出來，讓台積電有一個比較好的依靠，因為有一則最新的新聞就是今天一大早媒體報導魏哲家急飛美國，不曉得是什麼事情。因為目前整個對等關稅還沒有底定，很多企業都很擔心、很著急，就會有一些不安的情緒，所以政府的態度對安定民心肯定是重要的。","在此特別問一個和台積電有關的問題，這幾天台積電驚傳2奈米先進製程洩密案，有工程師偷拍照片要給日本的Rapidus這家公司，當然，台積電的PIP（機密資訊保護）做得很好，這點確實要予以肯定，可是我在想，為什麼他們的PIP一直都做得那麼好，還是會有工程師或者高階工程師要去做這樣的事情？請問政府這邊有沒有特別去關注這個事情？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個部分因為國科會執掌我們的關鍵機密技術，所以這在國安法上面有做一些保護。這個案子現在檢調在協助調查，所以相關的因應團隊都出現了，就我的瞭解，它並不是全部的資訊。第二，很多事情不是看一個paper就會了，譬如說不可能讀一篇怎麼投棒球的文章，就可以去打職棒，它中間還有很多。就我瞭解，台積電是把他們的機密切成一段、一段、一段的，所以拿到其中一段，並沒有辦法知道其他的部分……"],["鄭委員正鈐：理解。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：也很難去……"],["鄭委員正鈐：就是因為這樣，所以有工程師願意冒國安方面的險，我們就覺得很特殊。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個過去很多企業也有喔！我覺得這個案子會讓很多人清楚地知道，根據新的國安法，會有12年的徒刑，這會讓很多工程師開始比較謹慎，否則過去好多公司都發生過類似的事情，也有跑到其他國家去的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：而且除了最高12年的刑責之外，還有1億的罰鍰。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：透過這次的事情，應該會讓很多人都看到。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，謝謝主委。","我再問一件事情，就是有關聯合再生能源的部分，去年主委有特別提到國發基金已經針對聯合再生啟動退場機制，可是從去年8月27日到現在已經快要1年了，請問目前進度如何？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我可以說明一下，因為這個部分我們當時是參與私募，像我現在是規範，私募在公司賺錢的時候，時間到了就要轉成一般股，一般股就可以在股市買賣，這個當時因為它不賺錢，所以就一直留在私募這個部分，私募的話就要整個批量線下交易，它要打折……"],["鄭委員正鈐：所以我講的狀態就是，2018年國發基金要用私募普通股進場的時候，坦白說，當時聯合再生的表現其實就不是特別的好，而且整個國際大環境對於光電業的部分其實也不是那麼看好，所以國發基金當時為什麼會用私募普通股的方式進去？我比較關心的是這個決策的過程，也希望從這個過程當中得到一些教訓，就是我們在做這樣一個投資的決策過程當中，會不會有一些更好、更透明的機制？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：當時因為它本身就是發行私募，第二次增資我們就是普通股，普通股其實我們有在清了，私募要找買家是比較辛苦一點，的確我們目前的進度是不好的，第二個原因是我們在委員會核定的價格也比較高，不符合一般私募的要求。因為我們是獨立性的委員會，國發基金請委員核定以後，我們就依據這個價格去找買主，我們是有委託兩次，其實都非常辛苦。我們現在是這樣，任何特別股和私募都要經過我先看過再核定，我必須看到特別股的條件，我們比以前還謹慎。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：第二個部分是我們也開始、我也要求所有的……我們都檢核一遍，就是只要能夠吻合轉換的，我們就一律都轉換，這樣就可以在公開市場進行拋售。"],["鄭委員正鈐：OK，謝謝主委，因為你今天在報告「新動能」的部分特別提到「提升投資動能」，內容包括政府將落實「均衡臺灣」理念，打造六大區域產業及生活圈。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["鄭委員正鈐：因為賴總統在2024年選舉時有特別提到桃竹苗大矽谷計畫，這部分我也非常關注，這個東西國發會肯定有一些管考的計畫，不曉得這個桃竹苗大矽谷計畫的後續進度如何？會不會這4年當中都只是流於口號？也就是說，我比較關注的是它的具體進度。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：跟委員報告，這次在六大區域裡面，桃竹苗大矽谷是第一個試行的案例，我們其實做了兩件事情，還做了區域治理，什麼是區域治理？就是我們當時邀請桃園市長、新竹縣長、新竹市長和苗栗縣長一起到國發會來，跟他們說明整個計畫，因為這裡面中央和地方要一起搭配，地方要搭配的比較是屬於生態系的部分，包括住宅、商場，中央還有學校、醫院等等，我們大家一起把這個計畫做一個商討以後，建了一個平臺，由我們的副主委和他們的副縣市長，大家進行溝通，所以就會產生像中央的交通建設我們會做，地方的則是由他們進行規劃，大家在這個平臺上一起探討。當時新竹市的代理市長也有來，他們也會依據這個部分開始往下規劃。這個平臺是他有遇到困難的時候，我們就會來探討。"],["鄭委員正鈐：謝謝主委，這個部分我們希望能有具體的進度，然後儘速把它落實下來。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們也很樂意，大家儘快看怎麼樣從中央和地方之間落實桃竹苗大矽谷計畫。"],["鄭委員正鈐：好，謝謝主委，主委平安，謝謝。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝。","現在請鄭天財委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":500,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-19","speakers":["謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","陳超明","邱志偉","賴士葆","李坤城","呂玉玲","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","廖先翔","葉元之","蔡易餘","林岱樺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":437,"meetingDate":["2025-08-07"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員就「美國對等關稅底定後，我國經濟未來之景氣情況及產業全球佈\n局新規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147101_00010"}}}