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署長請簡單用10秒跟您報告那今年經過協調本來都沒有開圈至少有兩個縣市有開圈那我想說它可能有合併那個技術還不是很成熟的問題所以它的結束可能在找合併的主辦學校或是整個縣市的簡章中的分類這些技術面的問題有今年的經驗之後明年應該會更好好 謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 681.203, \"end\": 681.223, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 681.223, \"end\": 681.243, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 681.243, \"end\": 681.283, \"score\": 0.489}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"秒\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 681.283, \"end\": 681.363, \"score\": 0.609}, {\"word\": \"您\", \"start\": 681.363, \"end\": 681.383, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 681.383, \"end\": 681.483, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 681.483, \"end\": 681.523, \"score\": 0.162}, {\"word\": \"今\", \"start\": 681.523, \"end\": 681.543, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 681.543, \"end\": 681.683, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": 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我想要請教一下那個因為談到輔導諮商我想要請問那個張師大的一個輔導諮商所的一個問題那我簡單講因為談到這個輔導諮商我想不論是柴師大或張師大他們都是失陪體系所以讓我們覺得非常嚴重\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 772.774, \"end\": 772.954, \"score\": 0.753}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 772.954, \"end\": 773.074, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 773.074, \"end\": 773.214, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 773.214, \"end\": 773.334, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 773.334, \"end\": 773.554, \"score\": 0.682}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 773.554, \"end\": 773.735, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 773.735, \"end\": 774.535, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"鐘\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 774.535, \"end\": 774.555, \"score\": 0.045}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 774.555, \"end\": 774.756, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 774.756, \"end\": 774.916, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 774.916, \"end\": 776.017, \"score\": 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\"end\": 919.999, \"score\": 0.777}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 919.999, \"end\": 920.119, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 920.119, \"end\": 920.139, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 920.139, \"end\": 920.159, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,501 --> 00:00:09,584\n謝謝主席有請部長請鄭部長貝子荀謝謝國教署長市議司長委員好麻煩署長市長也準備謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:21,463 --> 00:00:36,231\n今天委員會有一個主題叫做關心全國中小學教師人力不足的問題那恰巧趙偉在昨天也有排了一場偏鄉教育條例修法的公聽會\n\n3\n00:00:37,711 --> 00:00:56,763\n那在這個當中呢有很多的委員有提出修法版本那我個人也有修法版本其中呢有一個部分是被討論的就是關於第七條跟第八條那這個第七條第八條我想先請教一下部長您有沒有聽過專聘教師\n\n4\n00:01:01,755 --> 00:01:24,505\n由地方來考試的一個代理老師我跟部長說明一下在偏鄉教育條例有出現一個名詞叫專聘教師那什麼叫專聘教師呢就是由教育主管機關他辦的聯合甄選出來的代理教師叫專聘教師就不會出現代理兩個字\n\n5\n00:01:25,726 --> 00:01:44,674\n那他是專門為我們偏鄉來設計他比一般代理教師多一點點薪水而且他可以無限的長期續聘所以這個叫做專聘教師可是部長您知不知道將近八年來就是推動七年多來\n\n6\n00:01:46,110 --> 00:02:06,747\n全國只有哪裡有專聘教師呢澎湖縣只有澎湖縣有那為什麼會這樣可能是當時法條的一個疏漏啦因為他特別提到呢要由縣市政府來辦理聯合甄選結果呢只有澎湖縣有在辦\n\n7\n00:02:07,808 --> 00:02:25,515\n大部分的縣市都是用學校自辦所以就產生了這個問題因此我們就想要修法因為我們總是希望這一條的美意就是要讓這些代理教師我們希望他精進我們希望他從無證變有證\n\n8\n00:02:27,856 --> 00:02:47,251\n但是他也不是不想有證啊因為他地處偏遠他要去進修要花很長的地理時間而且呢也要花自己的錢可是我們偏鄉教育條例的美意是說全額補助這些專聘教師服務滿三年四學期可以全額補助進修師北\n\n9\n00:02:48,872 --> 00:03:07,787\n所以這個美意就沒有被用到因此呢我們就想要修第七條嘛我們想要放寬專聘教師的資格讓學校自辦的也可以嘛可是呢昨天呢出現一個插曲我們的教育行政機關的研究員呢他可能沒有搞清楚他認為呢修這個啊\n\n10\n00:03:10,789 --> 00:03:37,898\n是要來降低偏鄉的師資的數值他說這是走回頭路他說我們的教育沒有未來這樣怎麼辦所以呢我們只是提醒說其實第七條第八條他必須要來修的原因是因為就是要解決教師偏鄉教師的問題所以呢很好這個本來就是教育部既有的政策因為在你們的業報上也有提到\n\n11\n00:03:39,018 --> 00:03:59,845\n擴大開設各類學士後教育學分班對準偏遠地區需求這邊的解方有像114學年度有合訂這個班別有10個師培在做10個班那每班招收45名所以這個部分是有的\n\n12\n00:04:00,385 --> 00:04:22,776\n但是我要請部長看一下這邊有一個就是成績通知書在網路上熱烈討論為什麼被熱烈討論呢因為學生的成績這位是被取第74名他的成績是高於正取生的錄取標準\n\n13\n00:04:23,715 --> 00:04:42,675\n他的書審資料還有他的計劃書他的成績都是高於正取的這個錄取標準可是他的結果是被取74名那為什麼會產生這樣的問題因為我們可以回頭過來看我們當然可以理解\n\n14\n00:04:43,536 --> 00:04:57,102\n他的一個美意是說我們開這個班就是希望在偏遠地區已經待課很多年的老師可以趕快回來所以他的錄取一他是以服務年資為優先\n\n15\n00:04:58,823 --> 00:05:16,756\n所以你只要服務年資高的,大概你就算書審成績比人家不好,他可能也都可以錄取但是我們看到這時間失陪大學,只有屏東大學呢,他是把書審面試,他有做加權計分\n\n16\n00:05:18,237 --> 00:05:37,672\n其他的九所呢就是幾乎年資高就可以錄取那這樣子讓很多人就會討論什麼呢那要我們送計畫書書面資料是為了走辛酸的嗎還是走一個表面的流程的嗎所以呢這個部分我相信我們看到\n\n17\n00:05:38,513 --> 00:05:54,454\n有這麼多的人來報名表示我們還是很有希望的很多的老師還是願意去取得證照去透過這樣的師培去偏鄉教書那我們只是希望說這個部分能夠去稍微做檢討\n\n18\n00:05:55,695 --> 00:06:09,992\n那另外呢這個代理教師我們看到這個前兩年的數據出來他的離職率是高達57%而且呢大多都是在3到5年內他就會離開就會夭折\n\n19\n00:06:12,675 --> 00:06:39,827\n所以這個偏鄉學士後的學分班我覺得就是為了要協助這一群在偏鄉教學的主力讓他無證變有證所以這個部分我除了說我們應該教育部是不是來檢討帶大家來檢討之外那是不是去掌握我們偏鄉學士後這些學分班進修的資格人數那個部長請您來說明一下\n\n20\n00:06:42,032 --> 00:06:55,182\n謝謝委員的一個提醒確實如果只是按照年資我想應該有一個更像剛才舉例的屏東大學還加上一個這個書審對加權幾分相對是比較適當的或者說應該以書審的成績為優先然後在書審成績相同的時候排序考慮年資進來我想這當然有許多的這個辦法標準我想我們內部再來\n\n21\n00:07:11,214 --> 00:07:26,564\n這個討論演繹那另外也跟委員報告我們我進來以後也希望這一個這一個施施培醫師裡面他們也開始在改變許多考慮如委員所說的偏鄉的老師帶老師他要白天或者晚上來\n\n22\n00:07:27,904 --> 00:07:55,809\n這個師培單位大學裡面去進修教育學問那是不可能的所以我們現在開始折騰許多的理論性的課程是用線上來學習讓偏鄉的老師代理老師他在他自己的學校裡他不需要下山出來到市區去接受教育那有一些實作的在安排在寒暑假類似這樣的一個課程上的一個設計我想我們都願意來做許多的一些努力希望能夠留住\n\n23\n00:07:56,369 --> 00:08:12,851\n也同時能夠讓偏鄉老師能夠有一個更好的教學品質謝謝部長我們最主要是看到教育部提出這個政策之後偏鄉學士候學分班從它的一個報名的情形來看我們感覺到是很樂觀很振奮的\n\n24\n00:08:14,873 --> 00:08:37,910\n表示我們的偏鄉還是有人願意投入所以呢我們很珍惜這一塊的人所以特別希望教育部在這次招生結束後能夠去關心調查一下各校招生的錄取狀況跟他的數據那我辦公室也很想了解那也希望說我們要網羅住這一些還有熱情投入的老師們那做一個\n\n25\n00:08:38,730 --> 00:09:06,389\n新進的座談會廣納偏鄉這些第一線老師的意見那作為未來的政策的一個改善的一個依據好嗎那另外我在你們的夜報也看到另外一個解方就是有提到說會提供一個就是原語文領域本土語文原住民語文專長班招收25名那事實上這個也是有上新聞因為很多人關心為什麼因為\n\n26\n00:09:08,630 --> 00:09:27,410\n他好不容易讀完了取證了但是沒有縣市開缺也是讀心酸的啦那像台東大學他們也是覺得很對孩子很不好意思那在這個部分呢其實我來了解的就是\n\n27\n00:09:28,431 --> 00:09:51,562\n其實是縣市政府不太理解也不太喜歡開學因為像這種原住民他叫作族語教師啦就是正式的老師也不是代理教師也不是族語專長教師他就是語文老師正式的老師那問題是說他現在他讀了四年取得師培的這些學分\n\n28\n00:09:52,242 --> 00:10:14,999\n然後呢他要一年要考過高級族語認證一年內等於他花了五年取證結果呢沒有縣市政府開缺然後呢地方呢又希望說希望他們有第二專長尤其是國中所以他又要回頭去修第二專長然後呢好不容易花了幾年修完了又不確定有沒有人願意開缺\n\n29\n00:10:16,835 --> 00:10:36,943\n所以這種缺其實對地方政府來講我知道教育部國教署都有去開過協調但是他們不知道這種缺因為他上不滿所以很多學校我們當然理解我們最終的目標就是希望學校的這些正式的一般教師他具備足語的能力\n\n30\n00:10:37,883 --> 00:10:59,347\n這是我們最高的目標那但是呢我們發現當他只有單一這樣的主語的一個教師的時候其實對學校來講他不太容易去開這個缺所以呢這個部分我也是在提醒說是不是再去做一個更完善的規劃希望這個部分要再了解來部長\n\n31\n00:11:00,616 --> 00:11:13,981\n謝謝委員指教確實今年取得主語認證的資格有七位國教署也非常努力你們協調之後終於有一個學校開圈大王國中目前也開了兩個圈我想詳細的請博士長補充說明\n\n32\n00:11:21,203 --> 00:11:25,065\n好謝謝署長請簡單用10秒跟您報告那今年經過協調本來都沒有開圈至少有兩個縣市有開圈那我想說它可能有合併那個技術還不是很成熟的問題所以它的結束可能在找合併的主辦學校或是整個縣市的簡章中的分類這些技術面的問題有今年的經驗之後明年應該會更好好謝謝\n\n33\n00:11:44,412 --> 00:12:07,655\n所以這個政策面技術面希望能夠規劃好那我還有一個問題就是你們的解方三就是促進在職教師留任有一個叫做資商輔導支持系統那因為我的時間也到我就快速講就是教育部有這個教師資商輔導支持中心那我不曉得是說你們有沒有掌握到目前上路之後的使用率\n\n34\n00:12:08,195 --> 00:12:29,685\n但是我們卻因為近幾年爛速的風氣校事會議造成很多的老師他們感受到壓力很大所以呢有很多老師他很希望來使用那這個支持中心他是在做媒合心理師那有一些老師是覺得說一年六次不夠用啦希望能夠增加\n\n35\n00:12:30,585 --> 00:12:50,372\n那我是覺得說增加到一次兩次變成七次八次都沒有關係但是至少要讓教師感受到教育部是支持的那不曉得部長對這個意見我想這個謝謝委員提醒我們確實國教署這邊我們樂觀其成我們也會支持那至於地方的部分我們會跟地方來溝通協調\n\n36\n00:12:52,774 --> 00:12:59,140\n謝謝那主席再給我一分鐘不好意思我想要請教一下那個因為談到輔導諮商我想要請問那個張師大的一個輔導諮商所的一個問題那我簡單講因為談到這個輔導諮商我想不論是柴師大或張師大他們都是失陪體系所以讓我們覺得非常嚴重\n\n37\n00:13:14,136 --> 00:13:40,428\n第二個他們都是用學術做網子然後呢都有權威性而且是長期的問題那現在爆開來所以呢對我們來講這個教育部可能要去很審慎的來救一些部分重新去做檢討怎麼會讓一個輔導諮商的助人工作者有的變加害者有的變被害者我覺得這個是很諷刺的一個事情那現在因為有的是在\n\n38\n00:13:41,428 --> 00:14:04,173\n在校生有的是已經畢業生所以呢有的是用性騷防治法處理有的是用性平法處理但是呢像這個性騷我們看到它其實是一種權勢性騷可是彰化縣政府就只有裁罰三萬元所以這個部分我覺得有很多要討論然後在我們的性平法\n\n39\n00:14:04,793 --> 00:14:19,951\n跟這個性騷防治法中間的空窗漏洞我們如何讓每一個人都能夠被接住我想這個部分呢也是我們要去討論的齁那我現在是要救教育部的部分就是因為張師大呢\n\n40\n00:14:21,653 --> 00:14:47,039\n他可能在回應的方面沒有很積極他的態度是很消極所以導致呢學生還成立自救的一個救濟平台然後在這個救濟平台當中呢很多的metoo就我也是我也是就發現了越來越多的老師所以這是一個長期的一個問題所以呢我們就是特別希望說教育部要主動的還是要介入監督那包括像這個\n\n41\n00:14:47,819 --> 00:15:15,388\n很多的事情發生之後最好的方法就是退休啊我就回家啦我可以避免遇到很多的問題那這個部分我們教育部要怎麼去設計老師的倫理規範然後呢包括這一些記錄性評的記錄那他的一個升等的聘任審查的機制那怎麼樣提供學校的一個支持系統怎麼去要求學校我想這個都要全面的來討論那我們也希望能夠得到一個報告部長可以嗎\n\n42\n00:15:18,313 --> 00:15:20,159\n好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來在\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4501\t9584\t謝謝主席 有請部長請鄭部長 貝子荀 謝謝國教署長 市議司長委員好麻煩署長 市長也準備 謝謝\n21463\t36231\t今天委員會有一個主題叫做關心全國中小學教師人力不足的問題那恰巧趙偉在昨天也有排了一場偏鄉教育條例修法的公聽會\n37711\t56763\t那在這個當中呢有很多的委員有提出修法版本那我個人也有修法版本其中呢有一個部分是被討論的就是關於第七條跟第八條那這個第七條第八條我想先請教一下部長您有沒有聽過專聘教師\n61755\t84505\t由地方來考試的一個代理老師我跟部長說明一下在偏鄉教育條例有出現一個名詞叫專聘教師那什麼叫專聘教師呢就是由教育主管機關他辦的聯合甄選出來的代理教師叫專聘教師就不會出現代理兩個字\n85726\t104674\t那他是專門為我們偏鄉來設計他比一般代理教師多一點點薪水而且他可以無限的長期續聘所以這個叫做專聘教師可是部長您知不知道將近八年來 就是推動七年多來\n106110\t126747\t全國只有哪裡有專聘教師呢澎湖縣只有澎湖縣有那為什麼會這樣可能是當時法條的一個疏漏啦因為他特別提到呢要由縣市政府來辦理聯合甄選結果呢只有澎湖縣有在辦\n127808\t145515\t大部分的縣市都是用學校自辦所以就產生了這個問題因此我們就想要修法因為我們總是希望這一條的美意就是要讓這些代理教師我們希望他精進我們希望他從無證變有證\n147856\t167251\t但是他也不是不想有證啊因為他地處偏遠他要去進修要花很長的地理時間而且呢也要花自己的錢可是我們偏鄉教育條例的美意是說全額補助這些專聘教師服務滿三年四學期可以全額補助進修師北\n168872\t187787\t所以這個美意就沒有被用到因此呢我們就想要修第七條嘛我們想要放寬專聘教師的資格讓學校自辦的也可以嘛可是呢昨天呢出現一個插曲我們的教育行政機關的研究員呢他可能沒有搞清楚他認為呢修這個啊\n190789\t217898\t是要來降低偏鄉的師資的數值他說這是走回頭路他說我們的教育沒有未來這樣怎麼辦所以呢我們只是提醒說其實第七條第八條他必須要來修的原因是因為就是要解決教師偏鄉教師的問題所以呢很好這個本來就是教育部既有的政策因為在你們的業報上也有提到\n219018\t239845\t擴大開設各類學士後教育學分班對準偏遠地區需求這邊的解方有像114學年度有合訂這個班別有10個師培在做10個班那每班招收45名所以這個部分是有的\n240385\t262776\t但是我要請部長看一下這邊有一個就是成績通知書在網路上熱烈討論為什麼被熱烈討論呢因為學生的成績這位是被取第74名他的成績是高於正取生的錄取標準\n263715\t282675\t他的書審資料還有他的計劃書他的成績都是高於正取的這個錄取標準可是他的結果是被取74名那為什麼會產生這樣的問題因為我們可以回頭過來看我們當然可以理解\n283536\t297102\t他的一個美意是說我們開這個班就是希望在偏遠地區已經待課很多年的老師可以趕快回來所以他的錄取一他是以服務年資為優先\n298823\t316756\t所以你只要服務年資高的,大概你就算書審成績比人家不好,他可能也都可以錄取但是我們看到這時間失陪大學,只有屏東大學呢,他是把書審面試,他有做加權計分\n318237\t337672\t其他的九所呢就是幾乎年資高就可以錄取那這樣子讓很多人就會討論什麼呢那要我們送計畫書書面資料是為了走辛酸的嗎還是走一個表面的流程的嗎所以呢這個部分我相信我們看到\n338513\t354454\t有這麼多的人來報名表示我們還是很有希望的很多的老師還是願意去取得證照去透過這樣的師培去偏鄉教書那我們只是希望說這個部分能夠去稍微做檢討\n355695\t369992\t那另外呢 這個代理教師我們看到這個前兩年的數據出來他的離職率是高達57%而且呢 大多都是在3到5年內他就會離開 就會夭折\n372675\t399827\t所以這個偏鄉學士後的學分班我覺得就是為了要協助這一群在偏鄉教學的主力讓他無證變有證所以這個部分我除了說我們應該教育部是不是來檢討帶大家來檢討之外那是不是去掌握我們偏鄉學士後這些學分班進修的資格人數那個部長請您來說明一下\n402032\t415182\t謝謝委員的一個提醒確實如果只是按照年資我想應該有一個更像剛才舉例的屏東大學還加上一個這個書審對 加權幾分相對是比較適當的或者說應該以書審的成績為優先然後在書審成績相同的時候排序考慮年資進來我想這當然有許多的這個辦法標準我想我們內部再來\n431214\t446564\t這個討論演繹那另外也跟委員報告我們我進來以後也希望這一個這一個施施培醫師裡面他們也開始在改變許多考慮如委員所說的偏鄉的老師帶老師他要白天或者晚上來\n447904\t475809\t這個師培單位大學裡面去進修教育學問那是不可能的所以我們現在開始折騰許多的理論性的課程是用線上來學習讓偏鄉的老師代理老師他在他自己的學校裡他不需要下山出來到市區去接受教育那有一些實作的在安排在寒暑假類似這樣的一個課程上的一個設計我想我們都願意來做許多的一些努力希望能夠留住\n476369\t492851\t也同時能夠讓偏鄉老師能夠有一個更好的教學品質謝謝部長我們最主要是看到教育部提出這個政策之後偏鄉學士候學分班從它的一個報名的情形來看我們感覺到是很樂觀很振奮的\n494873\t517910\t表示我們的偏鄉還是有人願意投入所以呢我們很珍惜這一塊的人所以特別希望教育部在這次招生結束後能夠去關心調查一下各校招生的錄取狀況跟他的數據那我辦公室也很想了解那也希望說我們要網羅住這一些還有熱情投入的老師們那做一個\n518730\t546389\t新進的座談會廣納偏鄉這些第一線老師的意見那作為未來的政策的一個改善的一個依據好嗎那另外我在你們的夜報也看到另外一個解方就是有提到說會提供一個就是原語文領域本土語文原住民語文專長班招收25名那事實上這個也是有上新聞因為很多人關心為什麼因為\n548630\t567410\t他好不容易讀完了取證了但是沒有縣市開缺也是讀心酸的啦那像台東大學他們也是覺得很對孩子很不好意思那在這個部分呢其實我來了解的就是\n568431\t591562\t其實是縣市政府不太理解 也不太喜歡開學因為像這種原住民 他叫作族語教師啦就是正式的老師 也不是代理教師 也不是族語專長教師他就是語文老師 正式的老師那問題是說 他現在他讀了四年 取得師培的這些學分\n592242\t614999\t然後呢他要一年要考過高級族語認證一年內等於他花了五年取證結果呢沒有縣市政府開缺然後呢地方呢又希望說希望他們有第二專長尤其是國中所以他又要回頭去修第二專長然後呢好不容易花了幾年修完了又不確定有沒有人願意開缺\n616835\t636943\t所以這種缺其實對地方政府來講我知道教育部國教署都有去開過協調但是他們不知道這種缺因為他上不滿所以很多學校我們當然理解我們最終的目標就是希望學校的這些正式的一般教師他具備足語的能力\n637883\t659347\t這是我們最高的目標那但是呢我們發現當他只有單一這樣的主語的一個教師的時候其實對學校來講他不太容易去開這個缺所以呢這個部分我也是在提醒說是不是再去做一個更完善的規劃希望這個部分要再了解來 部長\n660616\t673981\t謝謝委員指教 確實今年取得主語認證的資格有七位國教署也非常努力你們協調之後終於有一個學校開圈 大王國中目前也開了兩個圈 我想詳細的請博士長補充說明\n681203\t685065\t好 謝謝 署長請簡單用10秒跟您報告那今年經過協調本來都沒有開圈至少有兩個縣市有開圈那我想說它可能有合併那個技術還不是很成熟的問題所以它的結束可能在找合併的主辦學校或是整個縣市的簡章中的分類這些技術面的問題有今年的經驗之後明年應該會更好好 謝謝\n704412\t727655\t所以這個政策面技術面希望能夠規劃好那我還有一個問題就是你們的解方三就是促進在職教師留任有一個叫做資商輔導支持系統那因為我的時間也到我就快速講就是教育部有這個教師資商輔導支持中心那我不曉得是說你們有沒有掌握到目前上路之後的使用率\n728195\t749685\t但是我們卻因為近幾年爛速的風氣校事會議造成很多的老師他們感受到壓力很大所以呢有很多老師他很希望來使用那這個支持中心他是在做媒合心理師那有一些老師是覺得說一年六次不夠用啦希望能夠增加\n750585\t770372\t那我是覺得說增加到一次兩次變成七次八次都沒有關係但是至少要讓教師感受到教育部是支持的那不曉得部長對這個意見我想這個謝謝委員提醒我們確實國教署這邊我們樂觀其成我們也會支持那至於地方的部分我們會跟地方來溝通協調\n772774\t779140\t謝謝 那主席再給我一分鐘不好意思 我想要請教一下那個因為談到輔導諮商我想要請問那個張師大的一個輔導諮商所的一個問題那我簡單講因為談到這個輔導諮商我想不論是柴師大或張師大他們都是失陪體系所以讓我們覺得非常嚴重\n794136\t820428\t第二個他們都是用學術做網子然後呢都有權威性而且是長期的問題那現在爆開來所以呢對我們來講這個教育部可能要去很審慎的來救一些部分重新去做檢討怎麼會讓一個輔導諮商的助人工作者有的變加害者有的變被害者我覺得這個是很諷刺的一個事情那現在因為有的是在\n821428\t844173\t在校生有的是已經畢業生所以呢有的是用性騷防治法處理有的是用性平法處理但是呢像這個性騷我們看到它其實是一種權勢性騷可是彰化縣政府就只有裁罰三萬元所以這個部分我覺得有很多要討論然後在我們的性平法\n844793\t859951\t跟這個性騷防治法中間的空窗漏洞我們如何讓每一個人都能夠被接住我想這個部分呢也是我們要去討論的齁那我現在是要救教育部的部分就是因為張師大呢\n861653\t887039\t他可能在回應的方面沒有很積極他的態度是很消極所以導致呢學生還成立自救的一個救濟平台然後在這個救濟平台當中呢很多的me too就我也是我也是就發現了越來越多的老師所以這是一個長期的一個問題所以呢我們就是特別希望說教育部要主動的還是要介入監督那包括像這個\n887819\t915388\t很多的事情發生之後最好的方法就是退休啊我就回家啦我可以避免遇到很多的問題那這個部分我們教育部要怎麼去設計老師的倫理規範然後呢包括這一些記錄性評的記錄那他的一個升等的聘任審查的機制那怎麼樣提供學校的一個支持系統怎麼去要求學校我想這個都要全面的來討論那我們也希望能夠得到一個報告部長可以嗎\n918313\t920159\t好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員質詢 官員請回座我們接下來在\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請部長請鄭部長 貝子荀 謝謝國教署長 市議司長委員好麻煩署長 市長也準備 謝謝\n今天委員會有一個主題叫做關心全國中小學教師人力不足的問題那恰巧趙偉在昨天也有排了一場偏鄉教育條例修法的公聽會\n那在這個當中呢有很多的委員有提出修法版本那我個人也有修法版本其中呢有一個部分是被討論的就是關於第七條跟第八條那這個第七條第八條我想先請教一下部長您有沒有聽過專聘教師\n由地方來考試的一個代理老師我跟部長說明一下在偏鄉教育條例有出現一個名詞叫專聘教師那什麼叫專聘教師呢就是由教育主管機關他辦的聯合甄選出來的代理教師叫專聘教師就不會出現代理兩個字\n那他是專門為我們偏鄉來設計他比一般代理教師多一點點薪水而且他可以無限的長期續聘所以這個叫做專聘教師可是部長您知不知道將近八年來 就是推動七年多來\n全國只有哪裡有專聘教師呢澎湖縣只有澎湖縣有那為什麼會這樣可能是當時法條的一個疏漏啦因為他特別提到呢要由縣市政府來辦理聯合甄選結果呢只有澎湖縣有在辦\n大部分的縣市都是用學校自辦所以就產生了這個問題因此我們就想要修法因為我們總是希望這一條的美意就是要讓這些代理教師我們希望他精進我們希望他從無證變有證\n但是他也不是不想有證啊因為他地處偏遠他要去進修要花很長的地理時間而且呢也要花自己的錢可是我們偏鄉教育條例的美意是說全額補助這些專聘教師服務滿三年四學期可以全額補助進修師北\n所以這個美意就沒有被用到因此呢我們就想要修第七條嘛我們想要放寬專聘教師的資格讓學校自辦的也可以嘛可是呢昨天呢出現一個插曲我們的教育行政機關的研究員呢他可能沒有搞清楚他認為呢修這個啊\n是要來降低偏鄉的師資的數值他說這是走回頭路他說我們的教育沒有未來這樣怎麼辦所以呢我們只是提醒說其實第七條第八條他必須要來修的原因是因為就是要解決教師偏鄉教師的問題所以呢很好這個本來就是教育部既有的政策因為在你們的業報上也有提到\n擴大開設各類學士後教育學分班對準偏遠地區需求這邊的解方有像114學年度有合訂這個班別有10個師培在做10個班那每班招收45名所以這個部分是有的\n但是我要請部長看一下這邊有一個就是成績通知書在網路上熱烈討論為什麼被熱烈討論呢因為學生的成績這位是被取第74名他的成績是高於正取生的錄取標準\n他的書審資料還有他的計劃書他的成績都是高於正取的這個錄取標準可是他的結果是被取74名那為什麼會產生這樣的問題因為我們可以回頭過來看我們當然可以理解\n他的一個美意是說我們開這個班就是希望在偏遠地區已經待課很多年的老師可以趕快回來所以他的錄取一他是以服務年資為優先\n所以你只要服務年資高的,大概你就算書審成績比人家不好,他可能也都可以錄取但是我們看到這時間失陪大學,只有屏東大學呢,他是把書審面試,他有做加權計分\n其他的九所呢就是幾乎年資高就可以錄取那這樣子讓很多人就會討論什麼呢那要我們送計畫書書面資料是為了走辛酸的嗎還是走一個表面的流程的嗎所以呢這個部分我相信我們看到\n有這麼多的人來報名表示我們還是很有希望的很多的老師還是願意去取得證照去透過這樣的師培去偏鄉教書那我們只是希望說這個部分能夠去稍微做檢討\n那另外呢 這個代理教師我們看到這個前兩年的數據出來他的離職率是高達57%而且呢 大多都是在3到5年內他就會離開 就會夭折\n所以這個偏鄉學士後的學分班我覺得就是為了要協助這一群在偏鄉教學的主力讓他無證變有證所以這個部分我除了說我們應該教育部是不是來檢討帶大家來檢討之外那是不是去掌握我們偏鄉學士後這些學分班進修的資格人數那個部長請您來說明一下\n謝謝委員的一個提醒確實如果只是按照年資我想應該有一個更像剛才舉例的屏東大學還加上一個這個書審對 加權幾分相對是比較適當的或者說應該以書審的成績為優先然後在書審成績相同的時候排序考慮年資進來我想這當然有許多的這個辦法標準我想我們內部再來\n這個討論演繹那另外也跟委員報告我們我進來以後也希望這一個這一個施施培醫師裡面他們也開始在改變許多考慮如委員所說的偏鄉的老師帶老師他要白天或者晚上來\n這個師培單位大學裡面去進修教育學問那是不可能的所以我們現在開始折騰許多的理論性的課程是用線上來學習讓偏鄉的老師代理老師他在他自己的學校裡他不需要下山出來到市區去接受教育那有一些實作的在安排在寒暑假類似這樣的一個課程上的一個設計我想我們都願意來做許多的一些努力希望能夠留住\n也同時能夠讓偏鄉老師能夠有一個更好的教學品質謝謝部長我們最主要是看到教育部提出這個政策之後偏鄉學士候學分班從它的一個報名的情形來看我們感覺到是很樂觀很振奮的\n表示我們的偏鄉還是有人願意投入所以呢我們很珍惜這一塊的人所以特別希望教育部在這次招生結束後能夠去關心調查一下各校招生的錄取狀況跟他的數據那我辦公室也很想了解那也希望說我們要網羅住這一些還有熱情投入的老師們那做一個\n新進的座談會廣納偏鄉這些第一線老師的意見那作為未來的政策的一個改善的一個依據好嗎那另外我在你們的夜報也看到另外一個解方就是有提到說會提供一個就是原語文領域本土語文原住民語文專長班招收25名那事實上這個也是有上新聞因為很多人關心為什麼因為\n他好不容易讀完了取證了但是沒有縣市開缺也是讀心酸的啦那像台東大學他們也是覺得很對孩子很不好意思那在這個部分呢其實我來了解的就是\n其實是縣市政府不太理解 也不太喜歡開學因為像這種原住民 他叫作族語教師啦就是正式的老師 也不是代理教師 也不是族語專長教師他就是語文老師 正式的老師那問題是說 他現在他讀了四年 取得師培的這些學分\n然後呢他要一年要考過高級族語認證一年內等於他花了五年取證結果呢沒有縣市政府開缺然後呢地方呢又希望說希望他們有第二專長尤其是國中所以他又要回頭去修第二專長然後呢好不容易花了幾年修完了又不確定有沒有人願意開缺\n所以這種缺其實對地方政府來講我知道教育部國教署都有去開過協調但是他們不知道這種缺因為他上不滿所以很多學校我們當然理解我們最終的目標就是希望學校的這些正式的一般教師他具備足語的能力\n這是我們最高的目標那但是呢我們發現當他只有單一這樣的主語的一個教師的時候其實對學校來講他不太容易去開這個缺所以呢這個部分我也是在提醒說是不是再去做一個更完善的規劃希望這個部分要再了解來 部長\n謝謝委員指教 確實今年取得主語認證的資格有七位國教署也非常努力你們協調之後終於有一個學校開圈 大王國中目前也開了兩個圈 我想詳細的請博士長補充說明\n好 謝謝 署長請簡單用10秒跟您報告那今年經過協調本來都沒有開圈至少有兩個縣市有開圈那我想說它可能有合併那個技術還不是很成熟的問題所以它的結束可能在找合併的主辦學校或是整個縣市的簡章中的分類這些技術面的問題有今年的經驗之後明年應該會更好好 謝謝\n所以這個政策面技術面希望能夠規劃好那我還有一個問題就是你們的解方三就是促進在職教師留任有一個叫做資商輔導支持系統那因為我的時間也到我就快速講就是教育部有這個教師資商輔導支持中心那我不曉得是說你們有沒有掌握到目前上路之後的使用率\n但是我們卻因為近幾年爛速的風氣校事會議造成很多的老師他們感受到壓力很大所以呢有很多老師他很希望來使用那這個支持中心他是在做媒合心理師那有一些老師是覺得說一年六次不夠用啦希望能夠增加\n那我是覺得說增加到一次兩次變成七次八次都沒有關係但是至少要讓教師感受到教育部是支持的那不曉得部長對這個意見我想這個謝謝委員提醒我們確實國教署這邊我們樂觀其成我們也會支持那至於地方的部分我們會跟地方來溝通協調\n謝謝 那主席再給我一分鐘不好意思 我想要請教一下那個因為談到輔導諮商我想要請問那個張師大的一個輔導諮商所的一個問題那我簡單講因為談到這個輔導諮商我想不論是柴師大或張師大他們都是失陪體系所以讓我們覺得非常嚴重\n第二個他們都是用學術做網子然後呢都有權威性而且是長期的問題那現在爆開來所以呢對我們來講這個教育部可能要去很審慎的來救一些部分重新去做檢討怎麼會讓一個輔導諮商的助人工作者有的變加害者有的變被害者我覺得這個是很諷刺的一個事情那現在因為有的是在\n在校生有的是已經畢業生所以呢有的是用性騷防治法處理有的是用性平法處理但是呢像這個性騷我們看到它其實是一種權勢性騷可是彰化縣政府就只有裁罰三萬元所以這個部分我覺得有很多要討論然後在我們的性平法\n跟這個性騷防治法中間的空窗漏洞我們如何讓每一個人都能夠被接住我想這個部分呢也是我們要去討論的齁那我現在是要救教育部的部分就是因為張師大呢\n他可能在回應的方面沒有很積極他的態度是很消極所以導致呢學生還成立自救的一個救濟平台然後在這個救濟平台當中呢很多的me too就我也是我也是就發現了越來越多的老師所以這是一個長期的一個問題所以呢我們就是特別希望說教育部要主動的還是要介入監督那包括像這個\n很多的事情發生之後最好的方法就是退休啊我就回家啦我可以避免遇到很多的問題那這個部分我們教育部要怎麼去設計老師的倫理規範然後呢包括這一些記錄性評的記錄那他的一個升等的聘任審查的機制那怎麼樣提供學校的一個支持系統怎麼去要求學校我想這個都要全面的來討論那我們也希望能夠得到一個報告部長可以嗎\n好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員質詢 官員請回座我們接下來在\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.501 --> 00:09.584\n謝謝主席有請部長請鄭部長貝子荀謝謝國教署長市議司長委員好麻煩署長市長也準備謝謝\n\n00:21.463 --> 00:36.231\n今天委員會有一個主題叫做關心全國中小學教師人力不足的問題那恰巧趙偉在昨天也有排了一場偏鄉教育條例修法的公聽會\n\n00:37.711 --> 00:56.763\n那在這個當中呢有很多的委員有提出修法版本那我個人也有修法版本其中呢有一個部分是被討論的就是關於第七條跟第八條那這個第七條第八條我想先請教一下部長您有沒有聽過專聘教師\n\n01:01.755 --> 01:24.505\n由地方來考試的一個代理老師我跟部長說明一下在偏鄉教育條例有出現一個名詞叫專聘教師那什麼叫專聘教師呢就是由教育主管機關他辦的聯合甄選出來的代理教師叫專聘教師就不會出現代理兩個字\n\n01:25.726 --> 01:44.674\n那他是專門為我們偏鄉來設計他比一般代理教師多一點點薪水而且他可以無限的長期續聘所以這個叫做專聘教師可是部長您知不知道將近八年來就是推動七年多來\n\n01:46.110 --> 02:06.747\n全國只有哪裡有專聘教師呢澎湖縣只有澎湖縣有那為什麼會這樣可能是當時法條的一個疏漏啦因為他特別提到呢要由縣市政府來辦理聯合甄選結果呢只有澎湖縣有在辦\n\n02:07.808 --> 02:25.515\n大部分的縣市都是用學校自辦所以就產生了這個問題因此我們就想要修法因為我們總是希望這一條的美意就是要讓這些代理教師我們希望他精進我們希望他從無證變有證\n\n02:27.856 --> 02:47.251\n但是他也不是不想有證啊因為他地處偏遠他要去進修要花很長的地理時間而且呢也要花自己的錢可是我們偏鄉教育條例的美意是說全額補助這些專聘教師服務滿三年四學期可以全額補助進修師北\n\n02:48.872 --> 03:07.787\n所以這個美意就沒有被用到因此呢我們就想要修第七條嘛我們想要放寬專聘教師的資格讓學校自辦的也可以嘛可是呢昨天呢出現一個插曲我們的教育行政機關的研究員呢他可能沒有搞清楚他認為呢修這個啊\n\n03:10.789 --> 03:37.898\n是要來降低偏鄉的師資的數值他說這是走回頭路他說我們的教育沒有未來這樣怎麼辦所以呢我們只是提醒說其實第七條第八條他必須要來修的原因是因為就是要解決教師偏鄉教師的問題所以呢很好這個本來就是教育部既有的政策因為在你們的業報上也有提到\n\n03:39.018 --> 03:59.845\n擴大開設各類學士後教育學分班對準偏遠地區需求這邊的解方有像114學年度有合訂這個班別有10個師培在做10個班那每班招收45名所以這個部分是有的\n\n04:00.385 --> 04:22.776\n但是我要請部長看一下這邊有一個就是成績通知書在網路上熱烈討論為什麼被熱烈討論呢因為學生的成績這位是被取第74名他的成績是高於正取生的錄取標準\n\n04:23.715 --> 04:42.675\n他的書審資料還有他的計劃書他的成績都是高於正取的這個錄取標準可是他的結果是被取74名那為什麼會產生這樣的問題因為我們可以回頭過來看我們當然可以理解\n\n04:43.536 --> 04:57.102\n他的一個美意是說我們開這個班就是希望在偏遠地區已經待課很多年的老師可以趕快回來所以他的錄取一他是以服務年資為優先\n\n04:58.823 --> 05:16.756\n所以你只要服務年資高的,大概你就算書審成績比人家不好,他可能也都可以錄取但是我們看到這時間失陪大學,只有屏東大學呢,他是把書審面試,他有做加權計分\n\n05:18.237 --> 05:37.672\n其他的九所呢就是幾乎年資高就可以錄取那這樣子讓很多人就會討論什麼呢那要我們送計畫書書面資料是為了走辛酸的嗎還是走一個表面的流程的嗎所以呢這個部分我相信我們看到\n\n05:38.513 --> 05:54.454\n有這麼多的人來報名表示我們還是很有希望的很多的老師還是願意去取得證照去透過這樣的師培去偏鄉教書那我們只是希望說這個部分能夠去稍微做檢討\n\n05:55.695 --> 06:09.992\n那另外呢這個代理教師我們看到這個前兩年的數據出來他的離職率是高達57%而且呢大多都是在3到5年內他就會離開就會夭折\n\n06:12.675 --> 06:39.827\n所以這個偏鄉學士後的學分班我覺得就是為了要協助這一群在偏鄉教學的主力讓他無證變有證所以這個部分我除了說我們應該教育部是不是來檢討帶大家來檢討之外那是不是去掌握我們偏鄉學士後這些學分班進修的資格人數那個部長請您來說明一下\n\n06:42.032 --> 06:55.182\n謝謝委員的一個提醒確實如果只是按照年資我想應該有一個更像剛才舉例的屏東大學還加上一個這個書審對加權幾分相對是比較適當的或者說應該以書審的成績為優先然後在書審成績相同的時候排序考慮年資進來我想這當然有許多的這個辦法標準我想我們內部再來\n\n07:11.214 --> 07:26.564\n這個討論演繹那另外也跟委員報告我們我進來以後也希望這一個這一個施施培醫師裡面他們也開始在改變許多考慮如委員所說的偏鄉的老師帶老師他要白天或者晚上來\n\n07:27.904 --> 07:55.809\n這個師培單位大學裡面去進修教育學問那是不可能的所以我們現在開始折騰許多的理論性的課程是用線上來學習讓偏鄉的老師代理老師他在他自己的學校裡他不需要下山出來到市區去接受教育那有一些實作的在安排在寒暑假類似這樣的一個課程上的一個設計我想我們都願意來做許多的一些努力希望能夠留住\n\n07:56.369 --> 08:12.851\n也同時能夠讓偏鄉老師能夠有一個更好的教學品質謝謝部長我們最主要是看到教育部提出這個政策之後偏鄉學士候學分班從它的一個報名的情形來看我們感覺到是很樂觀很振奮的\n\n08:14.873 --> 08:37.910\n表示我們的偏鄉還是有人願意投入所以呢我們很珍惜這一塊的人所以特別希望教育部在這次招生結束後能夠去關心調查一下各校招生的錄取狀況跟他的數據那我辦公室也很想了解那也希望說我們要網羅住這一些還有熱情投入的老師們那做一個\n\n08:38.730 --> 09:06.389\n新進的座談會廣納偏鄉這些第一線老師的意見那作為未來的政策的一個改善的一個依據好嗎那另外我在你們的夜報也看到另外一個解方就是有提到說會提供一個就是原語文領域本土語文原住民語文專長班招收25名那事實上這個也是有上新聞因為很多人關心為什麼因為\n\n09:08.630 --> 09:27.410\n他好不容易讀完了取證了但是沒有縣市開缺也是讀心酸的啦那像台東大學他們也是覺得很對孩子很不好意思那在這個部分呢其實我來了解的就是\n\n09:28.431 --> 09:51.562\n其實是縣市政府不太理解也不太喜歡開學因為像這種原住民他叫作族語教師啦就是正式的老師也不是代理教師也不是族語專長教師他就是語文老師正式的老師那問題是說他現在他讀了四年取得師培的這些學分\n\n09:52.242 --> 10:14.999\n然後呢他要一年要考過高級族語認證一年內等於他花了五年取證結果呢沒有縣市政府開缺然後呢地方呢又希望說希望他們有第二專長尤其是國中所以他又要回頭去修第二專長然後呢好不容易花了幾年修完了又不確定有沒有人願意開缺\n\n10:16.835 --> 10:36.943\n所以這種缺其實對地方政府來講我知道教育部國教署都有去開過協調但是他們不知道這種缺因為他上不滿所以很多學校我們當然理解我們最終的目標就是希望學校的這些正式的一般教師他具備足語的能力\n\n10:37.883 --> 10:59.347\n這是我們最高的目標那但是呢我們發現當他只有單一這樣的主語的一個教師的時候其實對學校來講他不太容易去開這個缺所以呢這個部分我也是在提醒說是不是再去做一個更完善的規劃希望這個部分要再了解來部長\n\n11:00.616 --> 11:13.981\n謝謝委員指教確實今年取得主語認證的資格有七位國教署也非常努力你們協調之後終於有一個學校開圈大王國中目前也開了兩個圈我想詳細的請博士長補充說明\n\n11:21.203 --> 11:25.065\n好謝謝署長請簡單用10秒跟您報告那今年經過協調本來都沒有開圈至少有兩個縣市有開圈那我想說它可能有合併那個技術還不是很成熟的問題所以它的結束可能在找合併的主辦學校或是整個縣市的簡章中的分類這些技術面的問題有今年的經驗之後明年應該會更好好謝謝\n\n11:44.412 --> 12:07.655\n所以這個政策面技術面希望能夠規劃好那我還有一個問題就是你們的解方三就是促進在職教師留任有一個叫做資商輔導支持系統那因為我的時間也到我就快速講就是教育部有這個教師資商輔導支持中心那我不曉得是說你們有沒有掌握到目前上路之後的使用率\n\n12:08.195 --> 12:29.685\n但是我們卻因為近幾年爛速的風氣校事會議造成很多的老師他們感受到壓力很大所以呢有很多老師他很希望來使用那這個支持中心他是在做媒合心理師那有一些老師是覺得說一年六次不夠用啦希望能夠增加\n\n12:30.585 --> 12:50.372\n那我是覺得說增加到一次兩次變成七次八次都沒有關係但是至少要讓教師感受到教育部是支持的那不曉得部長對這個意見我想這個謝謝委員提醒我們確實國教署這邊我們樂觀其成我們也會支持那至於地方的部分我們會跟地方來溝通協調\n\n12:52.774 --> 12:59.140\n謝謝那主席再給我一分鐘不好意思我想要請教一下那個因為談到輔導諮商我想要請問那個張師大的一個輔導諮商所的一個問題那我簡單講因為談到這個輔導諮商我想不論是柴師大或張師大他們都是失陪體系所以讓我們覺得非常嚴重\n\n13:14.136 --> 13:40.428\n第二個他們都是用學術做網子然後呢都有權威性而且是長期的問題那現在爆開來所以呢對我們來講這個教育部可能要去很審慎的來救一些部分重新去做檢討怎麼會讓一個輔導諮商的助人工作者有的變加害者有的變被害者我覺得這個是很諷刺的一個事情那現在因為有的是在\n\n13:41.428 --> 14:04.173\n在校生有的是已經畢業生所以呢有的是用性騷防治法處理有的是用性平法處理但是呢像這個性騷我們看到它其實是一種權勢性騷可是彰化縣政府就只有裁罰三萬元所以這個部分我覺得有很多要討論然後在我們的性平法\n\n14:04.793 --> 14:19.951\n跟這個性騷防治法中間的空窗漏洞我們如何讓每一個人都能夠被接住我想這個部分呢也是我們要去討論的齁那我現在是要救教育部的部分就是因為張師大呢\n\n14:21.653 --> 14:47.039\n他可能在回應的方面沒有很積極他的態度是很消極所以導致呢學生還成立自救的一個救濟平台然後在這個救濟平台當中呢很多的metoo就我也是我也是就發現了越來越多的老師所以這是一個長期的一個問題所以呢我們就是特別希望說教育部要主動的還是要介入監督那包括像這個\n\n14:47.819 --> 15:15.388\n很多的事情發生之後最好的方法就是退休啊我就回家啦我可以避免遇到很多的問題那這個部分我們教育部要怎麼去設計老師的倫理規範然後呢包括這一些記錄性評的記錄那他的一個升等的聘任審查的機制那怎麼樣提供學校的一個支持系統怎麼去要求學校我想這個都要全面的來討論那我們也希望能夠得到一個報告部長可以嗎\n\n15:18.313 --> 15:20.159\n好謝謝部長謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員質詢官員請回座我們接下來在\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.501,"end":9.584,"text":"謝謝主席 有請部長請鄭部長 貝子荀 謝謝國教署長 市議司長委員好麻煩署長 市長也準備 謝謝"},{"start":21.463,"end":36.231,"text":"今天委員會有一個主題叫做關心全國中小學教師人力不足的問題那恰巧趙偉在昨天也有排了一場偏鄉教育條例修法的公聽會"},{"start":37.711,"end":56.763,"text":"那在這個當中呢有很多的委員有提出修法版本那我個人也有修法版本其中呢有一個部分是被討論的就是關於第七條跟第八條那這個第七條第八條我想先請教一下部長您有沒有聽過專聘教師"},{"start":61.755,"end":84.505,"text":"由地方來考試的一個代理老師我跟部長說明一下在偏鄉教育條例有出現一個名詞叫專聘教師那什麼叫專聘教師呢就是由教育主管機關他辦的聯合甄選出來的代理教師叫專聘教師就不會出現代理兩個字"},{"start":85.726,"end":104.674,"text":"那他是專門為我們偏鄉來設計他比一般代理教師多一點點薪水而且他可以無限的長期續聘所以這個叫做專聘教師可是部長您知不知道將近八年來 就是推動七年多來"},{"start":106.11,"end":126.747,"text":"全國只有哪裡有專聘教師呢澎湖縣只有澎湖縣有那為什麼會這樣可能是當時法條的一個疏漏啦因為他特別提到呢要由縣市政府來辦理聯合甄選結果呢只有澎湖縣有在辦"},{"start":127.808,"end":145.515,"text":"大部分的縣市都是用學校自辦所以就產生了這個問題因此我們就想要修法因為我們總是希望這一條的美意就是要讓這些代理教師我們希望他精進我們希望他從無證變有證"},{"start":147.856,"end":167.251,"text":"但是他也不是不想有證啊因為他地處偏遠他要去進修要花很長的地理時間而且呢也要花自己的錢可是我們偏鄉教育條例的美意是說全額補助這些專聘教師服務滿三年四學期可以全額補助進修師北"},{"start":168.872,"end":187.787,"text":"所以這個美意就沒有被用到因此呢我們就想要修第七條嘛我們想要放寬專聘教師的資格讓學校自辦的也可以嘛可是呢昨天呢出現一個插曲我們的教育行政機關的研究員呢他可能沒有搞清楚他認為呢修這個啊"},{"start":190.789,"end":217.898,"text":"是要來降低偏鄉的師資的數值他說這是走回頭路他說我們的教育沒有未來這樣怎麼辦所以呢我們只是提醒說其實第七條第八條他必須要來修的原因是因為就是要解決教師偏鄉教師的問題所以呢很好這個本來就是教育部既有的政策因為在你們的業報上也有提到"},{"start":219.018,"end":239.845,"text":"擴大開設各類學士後教育學分班對準偏遠地區需求這邊的解方有像114學年度有合訂這個班別有10個師培在做10個班那每班招收45名所以這個部分是有的"},{"start":240.385,"end":262.776,"text":"但是我要請部長看一下這邊有一個就是成績通知書在網路上熱烈討論為什麼被熱烈討論呢因為學生的成績這位是被取第74名他的成績是高於正取生的錄取標準"},{"start":263.715,"end":282.675,"text":"他的書審資料還有他的計劃書他的成績都是高於正取的這個錄取標準可是他的結果是被取74名那為什麼會產生這樣的問題因為我們可以回頭過來看我們當然可以理解"},{"start":283.536,"end":297.102,"text":"他的一個美意是說我們開這個班就是希望在偏遠地區已經待課很多年的老師可以趕快回來所以他的錄取一他是以服務年資為優先"},{"start":298.823,"end":316.756,"text":"所以你只要服務年資高的,大概你就算書審成績比人家不好,他可能也都可以錄取但是我們看到這時間失陪大學,只有屏東大學呢,他是把書審面試,他有做加權計分"},{"start":318.237,"end":337.672,"text":"其他的九所呢就是幾乎年資高就可以錄取那這樣子讓很多人就會討論什麼呢那要我們送計畫書書面資料是為了走辛酸的嗎還是走一個表面的流程的嗎所以呢這個部分我相信我們看到"},{"start":338.513,"end":354.454,"text":"有這麼多的人來報名表示我們還是很有希望的很多的老師還是願意去取得證照去透過這樣的師培去偏鄉教書那我們只是希望說這個部分能夠去稍微做檢討"},{"start":355.695,"end":369.992,"text":"那另外呢 這個代理教師我們看到這個前兩年的數據出來他的離職率是高達57%而且呢 大多都是在3到5年內他就會離開 就會夭折"},{"start":372.675,"end":399.827,"text":"所以這個偏鄉學士後的學分班我覺得就是為了要協助這一群在偏鄉教學的主力讓他無證變有證所以這個部分我除了說我們應該教育部是不是來檢討帶大家來檢討之外那是不是去掌握我們偏鄉學士後這些學分班進修的資格人數那個部長請您來說明一下"},{"start":402.032,"end":415.182,"text":"謝謝委員的一個提醒確實如果只是按照年資我想應該有一個更像剛才舉例的屏東大學還加上一個這個書審對 加權幾分相對是比較適當的或者說應該以書審的成績為優先然後在書審成績相同的時候排序考慮年資進來我想這當然有許多的這個辦法標準我想我們內部再來"},{"start":431.214,"end":446.564,"text":"這個討論演繹那另外也跟委員報告我們我進來以後也希望這一個這一個施施培醫師裡面他們也開始在改變許多考慮如委員所說的偏鄉的老師帶老師他要白天或者晚上來"},{"start":447.904,"end":475.809,"text":"這個師培單位大學裡面去進修教育學問那是不可能的所以我們現在開始折騰許多的理論性的課程是用線上來學習讓偏鄉的老師代理老師他在他自己的學校裡他不需要下山出來到市區去接受教育那有一些實作的在安排在寒暑假類似這樣的一個課程上的一個設計我想我們都願意來做許多的一些努力希望能夠留住"},{"start":476.369,"end":492.851,"text":"也同時能夠讓偏鄉老師能夠有一個更好的教學品質謝謝部長我們最主要是看到教育部提出這個政策之後偏鄉學士候學分班從它的一個報名的情形來看我們感覺到是很樂觀很振奮的"},{"start":494.873,"end":517.91,"text":"表示我們的偏鄉還是有人願意投入所以呢我們很珍惜這一塊的人所以特別希望教育部在這次招生結束後能夠去關心調查一下各校招生的錄取狀況跟他的數據那我辦公室也很想了解那也希望說我們要網羅住這一些還有熱情投入的老師們那做一個"},{"start":518.73,"end":546.389,"text":"新進的座談會廣納偏鄉這些第一線老師的意見那作為未來的政策的一個改善的一個依據好嗎那另外我在你們的夜報也看到另外一個解方就是有提到說會提供一個就是原語文領域本土語文原住民語文專長班招收25名那事實上這個也是有上新聞因為很多人關心為什麼因為"},{"start":548.63,"end":567.41,"text":"他好不容易讀完了取證了但是沒有縣市開缺也是讀心酸的啦那像台東大學他們也是覺得很對孩子很不好意思那在這個部分呢其實我來了解的就是"},{"start":568.431,"end":591.562,"text":"其實是縣市政府不太理解 也不太喜歡開學因為像這種原住民 他叫作族語教師啦就是正式的老師 也不是代理教師 也不是族語專長教師他就是語文老師 正式的老師那問題是說 他現在他讀了四年 取得師培的這些學分"},{"start":592.242,"end":614.999,"text":"然後呢他要一年要考過高級族語認證一年內等於他花了五年取證結果呢沒有縣市政府開缺然後呢地方呢又希望說希望他們有第二專長尤其是國中所以他又要回頭去修第二專長然後呢好不容易花了幾年修完了又不確定有沒有人願意開缺"},{"start":616.835,"end":636.943,"text":"所以這種缺其實對地方政府來講我知道教育部國教署都有去開過協調但是他們不知道這種缺因為他上不滿所以很多學校我們當然理解我們最終的目標就是希望學校的這些正式的一般教師他具備足語的能力"},{"start":637.883,"end":659.347,"text":"這是我們最高的目標那但是呢我們發現當他只有單一這樣的主語的一個教師的時候其實對學校來講他不太容易去開這個缺所以呢這個部分我也是在提醒說是不是再去做一個更完善的規劃希望這個部分要再了解來 部長"},{"start":660.616,"end":673.981,"text":"謝謝委員指教 確實今年取得主語認證的資格有七位國教署也非常努力你們協調之後終於有一個學校開圈 大王國中目前也開了兩個圈 我想詳細的請博士長補充說明"},{"start":681.203,"end":685.065,"text":"好 謝謝 署長請簡單用10秒跟您報告那今年經過協調本來都沒有開圈至少有兩個縣市有開圈那我想說它可能有合併那個技術還不是很成熟的問題所以它的結束可能在找合併的主辦學校或是整個縣市的簡章中的分類這些技術面的問題有今年的經驗之後明年應該會更好好 謝謝"},{"start":704.412,"end":727.655,"text":"所以這個政策面技術面希望能夠規劃好那我還有一個問題就是你們的解方三就是促進在職教師留任有一個叫做資商輔導支持系統那因為我的時間也到我就快速講就是教育部有這個教師資商輔導支持中心那我不曉得是說你們有沒有掌握到目前上路之後的使用率"},{"start":728.195,"end":749.685,"text":"但是我們卻因為近幾年爛速的風氣校事會議造成很多的老師他們感受到壓力很大所以呢有很多老師他很希望來使用那這個支持中心他是在做媒合心理師那有一些老師是覺得說一年六次不夠用啦希望能夠增加"},{"start":750.585,"end":770.372,"text":"那我是覺得說增加到一次兩次變成七次八次都沒有關係但是至少要讓教師感受到教育部是支持的那不曉得部長對這個意見我想這個謝謝委員提醒我們確實國教署這邊我們樂觀其成我們也會支持那至於地方的部分我們會跟地方來溝通協調"},{"start":772.774,"end":779.14,"text":"謝謝 那主席再給我一分鐘不好意思 我想要請教一下那個因為談到輔導諮商我想要請問那個張師大的一個輔導諮商所的一個問題那我簡單講因為談到這個輔導諮商我想不論是柴師大或張師大他們都是失陪體系所以讓我們覺得非常嚴重"},{"start":794.136,"end":820.428,"text":"第二個他們都是用學術做網子然後呢都有權威性而且是長期的問題那現在爆開來所以呢對我們來講這個教育部可能要去很審慎的來救一些部分重新去做檢討怎麼會讓一個輔導諮商的助人工作者有的變加害者有的變被害者我覺得這個是很諷刺的一個事情那現在因為有的是在"},{"start":821.428,"end":844.173,"text":"在校生有的是已經畢業生所以呢有的是用性騷防治法處理有的是用性平法處理但是呢像這個性騷我們看到它其實是一種權勢性騷可是彰化縣政府就只有裁罰三萬元所以這個部分我覺得有很多要討論然後在我們的性平法"},{"start":844.793,"end":859.951,"text":"跟這個性騷防治法中間的空窗漏洞我們如何讓每一個人都能夠被接住我想這個部分呢也是我們要去討論的齁那我現在是要救教育部的部分就是因為張師大呢"},{"start":861.653,"end":887.039,"text":"他可能在回應的方面沒有很積極他的態度是很消極所以導致呢學生還成立自救的一個救濟平台然後在這個救濟平台當中呢很多的me too就我也是我也是就發現了越來越多的老師所以這是一個長期的一個問題所以呢我們就是特別希望說教育部要主動的還是要介入監督那包括像這個"},{"start":887.819,"end":915.388,"text":"很多的事情發生之後最好的方法就是退休啊我就回家啦我可以避免遇到很多的問題那這個部分我們教育部要怎麼去設計老師的倫理規範然後呢包括這一些記錄性評的記錄那他的一個升等的聘任審查的機制那怎麼樣提供學校的一個支持系統怎麼去要求學校我想這個都要全面的來討論那我們也希望能夠得到一個報告部長可以嗎"},{"start":918.313,"end":920.159,"text":"好 謝謝部長 謝謝主席謝謝吳麗華委員質詢 官員請回座我們接下來在"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":567,"blocks":[["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：（11時20分）謝謝主席，有請部長。"],["主席：請鄭部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：還有國教署長、師藝司長。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["主席：麻煩署長、司長也準備，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：部長好。今天委員會有一個主題叫作關心全國中小學教師人力不足的問題，恰巧召委在昨天也有排了一場偏鄉教育條例修法的公聽會，在這當中有很多委員提出修法版本，我個人也有修法版本，其中有一個部分是被討論的，就是關於第七條及第八條，就第七條及第八條，我想先請教一下部長，您有沒有聽過專聘教師？"],["鄭部長英耀：由地方來考試聘任的代理老師。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：我跟部長說明一下，在偏鄉教育條例有出現一個名詞叫專聘教師，什麼叫專聘教師呢？就是由教育主管機關所辦的聯合徵選出來的代理教師叫專聘教師，不會出現「代理」兩個字，是專門為偏鄉設計，比一般代理教師多一點點薪水，而且可以無限長期續聘，所以這叫作專聘教師。可是部長您知不知道將近八年來，就是推動七年多來，全國只有哪裡有專聘教師呢？澎湖縣，只有澎湖縣有，為什麼會這樣？可能是當時法條的一個疏漏，因為它特別提到要由縣市政府辦理聯合徵選，結果只有澎湖縣有辦，大部分的縣市都是用學校自辦，所以就產生了這個問題，因此我們就想要修法，因為我們總是希望這條的美意就是要讓這些代理教師，我們希望他精進，我們希望他從無證變有證，但是他也不是不想有證啊！因為他地處偏遠，他去進修要花很長的地理時間，而且也要花自己的錢。可是偏鄉教育條例的美意是說全額補助這些專聘教師，服務滿三年四學期可以全額補助進修師培，所以這個美意就沒有被用到，因此我們就想要修第七條，放寬專聘教師的資格，讓學校自辦的也可以嘛！","可是昨天出現一個插曲，我們教育行政機關的研究員他可能沒有搞清楚，他認為修這個是要降低偏鄉師資的素質，他說這是走回頭路，說我們的教育沒有未來，這樣怎麼辦？所以我們只是提醒，其實第七條、第八條必須要修的原因是因為要解決偏鄉教師的問題，所以很好，這個本來就是教育部既有的政策，因為在你們的業報上也有提到「擴大開設各類學士後教育學分班，對準偏遠地區需求」，這邊的解方像114學年度有核定班別，有10個師培班，每班招收45名，所以這個部分是有的。","但是我要請部長看一下，這邊有一個成績通知書在網路上熱烈討論，為什麼被熱烈討論呢？因為學生的成績，這位是備取第74名，他的成績是高於正取生的錄取標準，他的書審資料還有他的計畫書、成績都是高於正取的錄取標準，可是結果他是備取74名，為什麼會產生這樣的問題？我們可以回頭來看，我們當然可以理解它的美意是，開這個班就是希望在偏遠地區已經代課很多年的老師可以趕快回來，所以他的錄取是以服務年資為優先，所以你只要服務年資高就算書審成績比人家不好，可能也都可以錄取。但是我們看到這10間師培大學，只有屏東大學是有把書審、面試做加權計分，其他的9所學校幾乎是年資高就可以錄取，這樣讓很多人就會討論什麼呢？那要他們送計畫書、書面資料是為了走辛酸的嗎？還是走一個表面流程嗎？所以這個部分，我相信我們看到有這麼多的人報名表示還是很有希望的，很多老師還是願意取得證照，透過這樣的師培去偏鄉教書，那我們只是希望這個部分能夠稍微做檢討。","另外，我們看到代理教師前兩年的數據，離職率高達57%，而且大多都是在3到5年內就會離開、就會夭折，所以偏鄉學士後學分班我覺得就是為了要協助這一群在偏鄉教學的主力，讓他無證變有證，所以這個部分教育部除了應該帶大家來檢討之外，是不是也要掌握偏鄉學士後學分班進修的資格人數？部長，請您來說明一下。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員的提醒，確實如果只是按照年資，我想應該有一個……像剛才舉例的屏東大學還加上書審……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：對，加權計分。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想這相對是比較適當的，或者說應該以書審成績為優先，然後在書審成績相同的時候排序，考慮年資進來，我想這當然有許多的辦法、標準，我們內部再來討論研議。另外也跟委員報告，我進來以後，師資培育司也開始改變許多，考慮如委員所說的，偏鄉的老師、代理老師白天或者晚上要去師培單位、大學進修教育學分，那是不可能的，所以我們現在開始責成許多理論性課程採用線上學習，讓偏鄉的老師、代理老師在他自己的學校裡，不需要下山到市區去接受教育，有一些實作再安排在寒暑假，類似這樣的課程設計，我想我們都願意來做許多的努力，希望能夠留住，同時也讓偏鄉老師能夠有更好的教學品質、更專業，謝謝。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：謝謝部長，我們最主要是看到教育部提出這個政策之後，偏鄉學士後學分班從它的報名情形來看，我們感覺到很樂觀、很振奮，表示偏鄉還是有人願意投入，所以我們很珍惜這一塊的人，特別希望教育部在這次招生結束後，能夠去關心、調查一下各校招生的錄取狀況及數據，我辦公室也很想了解，希望我們要網羅住這些還有熱情投入的老師們，召開精進座談會，廣納偏鄉這些第一線老師的意見，作為未來政策改善的依據，好嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以，沒問題。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：另外，我在你們的業報也看到另外一個解方，就是提到會提供一個「語文領域本土語文─原住民語文專長班」，招收25名，事實上這個也是有上新聞，因為很多人關心，為什麼？因為他好不容易讀完了、取證了，但是沒有縣市開缺，也是讀心酸的，像臺東大學他們也是覺得對孩子很不好意思，在這個部分我了解的就是，其實是縣市政府不太理解，也不太喜歡開缺，因為像這種是叫做族語教師，就是正式的老師，也不是代理教師，也不是族語專長教師，他就是語文老師，是正式的老師。現在問題是，他讀了4年，取得師培的這些學分，然後他要在1年內考過高級族語認證，等於他花了5年取證，結果卻沒有縣市政府開缺，地方又希望他們有第二專長，尤其是國中，所以他又要回頭去修第二專長，好不容易花了幾年修完了，又不確定有沒有人願意開缺，所以這種缺其實對地方政府來講……我知道教育部國教署都有去開過協調會，但是他們不知道這種缺……因為他上不滿，所以很多學校……我們當然理解，我們最終的目標就是希望學校這些正式的一般教師具備族語的能力，這是我們最高的目標，但我們發現，當只有單一這樣的族語教師，其實對於學校來講不太容易去開這個缺，因此這個部分我也要再提醒是不是再去做一個更完善的規劃，希望這個部分要再了解，部長。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員指教，確實今年取得族語教師認證資格的有7位，國教署也非常努力，因為我們本來這個師資的比例……"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：有，你們協調之後，終於有一個學校開缺：大王國中。"],["鄭部長英耀：目前開了兩個缺，我想詳細的部分是不是請彭署長補充說明？"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝，署長請。"],["彭署長富源：簡單用10秒跟您報告，今年經過協調，本來都沒有開缺，現在至少有兩個縣市有開缺，我想它可能在合聘部分的技術面還不是很成熟，所以結束可能再找合聘的主辦學校，或是整個縣市的簡章中的分類，這些技術面的問題，有今年的經驗之後，明年應該會更好。謝謝委員。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。所以這部分在政策面、技術面希望能夠規劃好。","我還有一個問題，就是你們的解方三，促進在職教師留任有一個叫做諮商輔導支持系統，因為我的時間也到了，我就快速講，就是教育部有這個教師諮商輔導支持中心，我不曉得你們有沒有掌握到上路之後的使用率，但是因為近幾年濫訴的風氣，校事會議造成很多老師感受到壓力很大，所以有很多老師很希望來使用，這個支持中心是在做媒合心理師，有一些老師是覺得一年6次不夠用，希望能夠增加，我是覺得增加1次、2次，變成7次、8次都沒有關係，但是至少要讓教師感受到教育部是支持的，不曉得部長對於這個部分的意見？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒，國教署這邊我們樂觀其成，我們也會支持，至於地方的部分，我們會跟地方來溝通協調。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝。主席，再給我1分鐘，不好意思。","因為談到輔導諮商，我想要請問有關彰師大輔導諮商所的一個問題，我簡單講，因為談到輔導諮商，我想不論是臺師大或彰師大都是師培體系，所以讓我們覺得非常嚴重；第二個，他們都是用學術做幌子，都有權威性，而且是長期的問題，現在爆出來。所以對我們來講，教育部可能要很審慎地就一些部分重新去做檢討，怎麼會讓一個輔導諮商的助人工作者，有的變加害者、有的變被害者，我覺得這是很諷刺的事情，現在因為有的是在校生，有的已經是畢業生，所以有的是用性騷擾防治法處理，有的是用性平法處理，但是像這樣的性騷，我們看到這其實是一種權勢性騷，可是彰化縣政府就只有裁罰3萬元，所以這個部分我覺得有很多要討論的。另外，在性平法跟性騷擾防治法中間的空窗、漏洞，我們如何讓每一個人都能夠被接住？我想這個部分也是我們要去討論的。","我現在是要就教育部的部分，因為彰師大可能在回應方面沒有很積極，它的態度是很消極，導致學生還成立自救的救濟平臺，在這個救濟平臺當中就有很多的「#MeToo」說我也是、我也是，就發現了越來越多的老師，所以這是一個長期的問題。因此我們特別希望教育部要主動介入監督，包括很多事情發生之後，最好的方法就是退休，我就回家了，我可以避免遇到很多問題，這個部分教育部要怎麼去設計老師的倫理規範？包括這些紀錄，像是性平的紀錄，還有他的升等聘任審查機制，以及怎麼樣提供學校的支持系統、怎麼去要求學校？我想這都要全面來討論，我們也希望能夠得到一個報告，部長，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以。"],["伍麗華Saidhai Tahovecahe委員：好，謝謝部長，謝謝主席。"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝伍麗華委員質詢，官員請回座。我們接下來在吳沛憶委員之後休息5分鐘。","接下來有請吳沛憶委員進行質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-18","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","劉書彬","萬美玲","陳秀寳","張雅琳","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","李坤城","黃捷","羅廷瑋","廖先翔","陳培瑜","葉元之","黃國昌","高金素梅","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":3,"meetingDate":["2025-08-07"],"gazette_id":"1147202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長列席就「全國中小學教師人力不足現況與具體因應對策」進行專題報告並備\n質詢；二、邀請教育部部長、國家科學及技術委員會、衛生福利部列席就「如何強化研究計畫之\n人體研究倫理把關機制，以保障人權，捍衛科研價值，並避免類似台師大女足抽血違反研究倫理\n之案件再次發生」進行專題報告，並備質詢；三、邀請教育部部長、行政院人事行政總處及行政\n院主計總處列席就「9月9日運動部成立籌備情形與後續推動規劃」進行專題報告並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147202_00002"}}}