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{\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 657.447, \"end\": 657.467, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 657.467, \"end\": 657.567, \"score\": 0.722}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 657.567, \"end\": 657.727, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 657.727, \"end\": 657.907, \"score\": 0.781}, {\"word\": \"鴻\"}, {\"word\": \"薇\", \"start\": 657.907, \"end\": 658.047, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 658.047, \"end\": 658.067, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,525 --> 00:00:10,188\n謝謝主席請劉主委劉主委我延伸剛剛的問題在我們這次的特別條例裡面我們是用32%關稅相對的關稅的32%來做這個特別條例所以現在關稅已經降到20%了所以應該是足夠來應付這次的關稅的問題\n\n2\n00:00:36,485 --> 00:00:38,686\n我剛才講的是說剛才是提到半導體產業那這個百分之百的關稅由誰負責\n\n3\n00:01:02,532 --> 00:01:07,397\n會影響到產業不只是半導體不只是晶片可是有去投資的豁免關稅是一定會豁免的大家會去談怎麼來分攤還沒發生其實這些問題很多問題都要問經濟部經濟部不來只好叫你來了那我們就聊聊吧\n\n4\n00:01:22,432 --> 00:01:37,162\n那主委目前川普對我們這個關稅已經宣布說是20%了那賴總統第一時間也開了記者會說這是暫時性的稅率請問主委這個暫時性要多久啊我不是那麼清楚要多久但是我至少我知道以你的判斷評估呢我很難去預測啦因為\n\n5\n00:01:52,672 --> 00:02:07,059\n很多事情不掌握在我們手上所以我剛剛也有聽到你講說這個關稅就是川普他們單方面的宣布而已並沒有實質跟哪些國家有白紙黑紙的簽約是不是\n\n6\n00:02:08,118 --> 00:02:21,253\n這個是目前來講的話我們看到的訊息是這樣是這樣子的話那所以就要看表現你剛才講說要看表現那表現的話就像現在已經宣布了日本跟韓國他們的關稅是15%日本韓國是我們主要競爭的國家對不對\n\n7\n00:02:27,660 --> 00:02:55,972\n他們這個15%還有附帶條件要投資5000億、3500億是不是那現在我們外面尼克拉斯州你不承認這個4000億的問題但是已經一直喊從2000億美金、3000億美金已經喊到4000億美金還不知道川普願不願意投資這些金額就可以給我們降低所以我們的目標是不是盡量努力就是要降低到跟日本、韓國一樣最起碼\n\n8\n00:02:57,318 --> 00:03:11,395\n才是我們在競爭力上有個持平的點我想大家都會朝這個方向在努力有15%我們就已經很高興了對不對那現在主委那現在我們要談到15%的話你認為我們有什麼空間籌碼跟他談\n\n9\n00:03:16,169 --> 00:03:34,739\n主要還是跟委員報告因為我沒有參與到這個談判我說請你的評估因為你是國發會你可以橫跨各部會整合調整各部會的資源來幫助度過這個關稅問題啊所以我才問你你又整合了這事情這麼久了四月份到現在\n\n10\n00:03:35,740 --> 00:03:40,662\n八月了要八月了這個時間裡面各部會整合一下相對應的要應對的有沒有戰略性的建議的合作的這個價值在那邊還是說我們各部會有什麼相關的這些可以支援可以來對我們產業的幫忙不要讓我們產業受到這麼大的衝擊應該有嘛\n\n11\n00:03:56,249 --> 00:04:14,902\n沒有這次是一個比較重大的所以都在院這邊在整合啦那我們都扮演我們的角色是資源的角色而且我們分工在中長期的規劃啦那我們就專注在中長期的規劃因為短期我們資源在各部會那各位中長期的規劃裡面有沒有看到我們台灣要做哪些讓步\n\n12\n00:04:22,744 --> 00:04:38,594\n我從中長期來看我們是看到要去轉型要重新佈局企業需要去轉型所以我們編列了一些計畫舉個例子我們AI十大建設裡面就有很大的一塊協助企業進行AI轉型把產品你希望國內的需要的市場能夠再擴大\n\n13\n00:04:44,698 --> 00:05:11,003\n國內來供應就夠了還有國內趕快要走到AI我知道AI這個是我們下一波必須要做的事情所以這是我們已經計畫要執行的部分不只這樣還有開拓新市場像現在工具機有一個很大的新市場在印度那還有一塊也不算小的市場在土耳其那我們也要協助他們往多元化的去發展市場所以這個我們\n\n14\n00:05:11,923 --> 00:05:24,602\n我們台灣是出口導向的國家那人口是很重要的我們台灣多少人口2350萬人口對美國多少人口印度多少人口大陸多少人口這就是很需要的一個問題對不對是的\n\n15\n00:05:27,125 --> 00:05:48,583\n就是我們出口的導向的問題就在這邊這都是國發會你要先為以籌謀看到這些問題要做了準備功夫所以我才會問你說你有準備我們有什麼地方的讓步提到說4000億美金的投資這是我們最大的讓步嗎還是我們可以承受更多承受到哪個程度你有評估過嗎這個是我們有專業的專業評估過嗎國發應該要知道的\n\n16\n00:05:54,960 --> 00:06:15,705\n我們就是扮演資源的角色啦是啊所以問你我們的資源夠承擔這個未來要讓步的地方嗎投資的地方我相信我們的前線談判的團隊應該有做好前線談判也是一個團隊一個團隊包括你們啊你們提供給他資源啊我的承受度可以到哪裡對不對我的資源可以到哪裡\n\n17\n00:06:20,546 --> 00:06:42,444\n四千億還是只能到三千億這你沒有提供給他他是有談判籌碼跟底線對不對你沒有底線你怎麼談呢我們的籌碼不會我想不會只有那當然所以我要你評估嘛你今天只能做評估的角色告訴我們讓國人稍微有個底啊對不對因為我沒有參與我沒辦法評估我知道你今天講很多遍了好\n\n18\n00:06:43,410 --> 00:07:06,842\n我要請問這個籌碼跟這個能力的部分主委你沒辦法評估我相信在一個團隊裡面都要提供這些資料給我們談判的人他們才有辦法進一步去談來來回回因為現在沒有簽約啊美國完全看我們的表現啊這個表現就是你們要去談啊才能表現到他滿意嘛所以主委剛剛有提到啦\n\n19\n00:07:12,659 --> 00:07:23,485\n因為我們現在是出國導向的國家那現在我們看到經濟景氣你一直說經濟景氣不錯沒有錯啦在二月份的時候我們還是紅燈到現在四月份的話已經變成綠燈那你看看這個關稅的情形下來的話我們會不會變成藍燈啊\n\n20\n00:07:32,728 --> 00:07:57,043\n你有沒有看到?這個你就要評估囉這個我們是有評估啦我們是看兩個東西這個是落後指標啦我們領先指標來看的話是有下滑的現象那當然這裡面會因為充滿了不定性嘛那最後還是要看談判的結果會影響到如果失誤判的話就會反彈了因為在不定的過程中\n\n21\n00:07:58,504 --> 00:08:18,917\n我們如果從整體出口來看會變高的原因是因為因為從現在你看我們的圖表已經知道了啦從2月份一直下滑到現在啦就GDP的評估我們大概估計在1到1.5還會再下降嗎你估到會再下降它是會有成長但是不會到6點多整個經濟的成長率\n\n22\n00:08:21,539 --> 00:08:29,441\n我看這個3%是太過於樂觀了下半年會比較趨緩所以根據我們中經院在7月17號公布我們經濟預測也有做出同樣的評估尤其是我們的關稅戰已經影響到國際體系整個經貿的一個模式尤其世界各國針對關稅的成本的上升也可能引起全球的通貨膨脹所以主委\n\n23\n00:08:51,247 --> 00:09:08,314\n這個整個經濟的成長率的你們可能會下修嗎經濟成長率我們原來預估是用3.1預估的那因為我們上半年到6.67那你剛剛講說會下修一點多了那個下修是下半年的部分所以全年我們還是維持在3.1\n\n24\n00:09:11,995 --> 00:09:31,314\n現在已經要下半年了對下半年有可能到1到我剛講到1到1.5之間所以上半年6.67兩個加起來的話我們現在還是在很有信心在3以上但我們還是在所有的政策都在力保3.1的目標不變\n\n25\n00:09:32,665 --> 00:09:37,767\n是諸位我們現在看到我們的關稅雖然從32%降到這個20%是有階段性的一個成果但是我們最主要跟我們有競爭的國家它的我們還是比他們高在這種情形之下我們應該要整合各個部會的資源來對於整個我們關稅會受到衝擊的一些優勢的地方來做一個調整那譬如說像剛剛講的這個晶片\n\n26\n00:10:02,076 --> 00:10:07,341\n台積電在美國了在美國所以他可能豁免了那其他國家呢聯電呢還是立積電呢他們如果沒有去美國投資的他們會不會受到很大衝擊這方面你都要去協助他們更加的有這個競爭力整個狀況你都要去了解好不好那讓我們的整個經濟不衝擊的地方可以\n\n27\n00:10:25,677 --> 00:10:41,036\n讓他們更得到一些保障或者是說在我們整體的這個貿易受到挫折的時候這個低迷的狀況我們可以度過這個難關好的好的這都一定要不是台積電而已我們很多在研發這個高制程的一個研發單位他們都會面臨這個問題對\n\n28\n00:10:44,340 --> 00:10:58,067\n我們這次也有預算去協助他們他們又不去投資不是每個都要投資我們不能逼企業出走台積電已經被你們逼走了我希望後面的不要被逼走我們怎麼樣協助他們度過這個難關好不好我們一定會協助企業度過難關的謝謝委員好謝謝現在請王鴻薇委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6525\t10188\t謝謝主席 請劉主委劉主委我延伸剛剛的問題在我們這次的特別條例裡面我們是用32%關稅相對的關稅的32%來做這個特別條例所以現在關稅已經降到20%了所以應該是足夠來應付這次的關稅的問題\n36485\t38686\t我剛才講的是說剛才是提到半導體產業那這個百分之百的關稅由誰負責\n62532\t67397\t會影響到產業 不只是半導體 不只是晶片可是有去投資的 豁免關稅是一定會豁免的大家會去談 怎麼來分攤 還沒發生其實這些問題 很多問題都要問經濟部經濟部不來 只好叫你來了那我們就聊聊吧\n82432\t97162\t那主委目前川普對我們這個關稅已經宣布說是20%了那賴總統第一時間也開了記者會說這是暫時性的稅率請問主委這個暫時性要多久啊我不是那麼清楚要多久但是我至少我知道以你的判斷評估呢我很難去預測啦因為\n112672\t127059\t很多事情不掌握在我們手上所以我剛剛也有聽到你講說這個關稅就是川普他們單方面的宣布而已並沒有實質跟哪些國家有白紙黑紙的簽約是不是\n128118\t141253\t這個是目前來講的話我們看到的訊息是這樣是這樣子的話那所以就要看表現你剛才講說要看表現那表現的話就像現在已經宣布了日本跟韓國他們的關稅是15%日本韓國是我們主要競爭的國家對不對\n147660\t175972\t他們這個15%還有附帶條件要投資5000億、3500億是不是那現在我們外面尼克拉斯州你不承認這個4000億的問題但是已經一直喊從2000億美金、3000億美金已經喊到4000億美金還不知道川普願不願意投資這些金額就可以給我們降低所以我們的目標是不是盡量努力就是要降低到跟日本、韓國一樣最起碼\n177318\t191395\t才是我們在競爭力上有個持平的點我想大家都會朝這個方向在努力有15%我們就已經很高興了對不對那現在 主委那現在我們要談到15%的話你認為我們有什麼空間籌碼跟他談\n196169\t214739\t主要還是跟委員報告因為我沒有參與到這個談判我說請你的評估因為你是國發會你可以橫跨各部會整合調整各部會的資源來幫助度過這個關稅問題啊所以我才問你你又整合了這事情這麼久了四月份到現在\n215740\t220662\t八月了 要八月了這個時間裡面各部會整合一下相對應的要應對的有沒有戰略性的建議的合作的這個價值在那邊還是說我們各部會有什麼相關的這些可以支援可以來對我們產業的幫忙不要讓我們產業受到這麼大的衝擊應該有嘛\n236249\t254902\t沒有 這次是一個比較重大的 所以都在院這邊在整合啦那我們都扮演 我們的角色是資源的角色 而且我們分工在中長期的規劃啦那我們就專注在中長期的規劃 因為短期我們資源在各部會那各位 中長期的規劃裡面 有沒有看到我們台灣要做哪些讓步\n262744\t278594\t我從中長期來看我們是看到要去轉型要重新佈局企業需要去轉型所以我們編列了一些計畫舉個例子我們AI十大建設裡面就有很大的一塊協助企業進行AI轉型把產品你希望國內的需要的市場能夠再擴大\n284698\t311003\t國內來供應就夠了還有國內趕快要走到AI我知道AI這個是我們下一波必須要做的事情所以這是我們已經計畫要執行的部分不只這樣還有開拓新市場像現在工具機有一個很大的新市場在印度那還有一塊也不算小的市場在土耳其那我們也要協助他們往多元化的去發展市場所以這個我們\n311923\t324602\t我們台灣是出口導向的國家那人口是很重要的我們台灣多少人口2350萬人口對美國多少人口印度多少人口大陸多少人口這就是很需要的一個問題對不對是的\n327125\t348583\t就是我們出口的導向的問題就在這邊這都是國發會你要先為以籌謀看到這些問題要做了準備功夫所以我才會問你說你有準備我們有什麼地方的讓步提到說4000億美金的投資這是我們最大的讓步嗎還是我們可以承受更多承受到哪個程度你有評估過嗎這個是我們有專業的專業評估過嗎國發應該要知道的\n354960\t375705\t我們就是扮演資源的角色啦是啊 所以問你我們的資源夠承擔這個未來要讓步的地方嗎投資的地方我相信我們的前線談判的團隊應該有做好前線談判也是一個團隊一個團隊包括你們啊你們提供給他資源啊我的承受度可以到哪裡對不對 我的資源可以到哪裡\n380546\t402444\t四千億還是只能到三千億這你沒有提供給他他是有談判籌碼跟底線對不對你沒有底線你怎麼談呢我們的籌碼不會我想不會只有那當然所以我要你評估嘛你今天只能做評估的角色告訴我們讓國人稍微有個底啊對不對因為我沒有參與我沒辦法評估我知道你今天講很多遍了好\n403410\t426842\t我要請問這個籌碼跟這個能力的部分主委你沒辦法評估我相信在一個團隊裡面都要提供這些資料給我們談判的人他們才有辦法進一步去談來來回回因為現在沒有簽約啊美國完全看我們的表現啊這個表現就是你們要去談啊才能表現到他滿意嘛所以主委剛剛有提到啦\n432659\t443485\t因為我們現在是出國導向的國家那現在我們看到經濟景氣你一直說經濟景氣不錯沒有錯啦在二月份的時候我們還是紅燈到現在四月份的話已經變成綠燈那你看看這個關稅的情形下來的話我們會不會變成藍燈啊\n452728\t477043\t你有沒有看到?這個你就要評估囉這個我們是有評估啦我們是看兩個東西這個是落後指標啦我們領先指標來看的話是有下滑的現象那當然這裡面會因為充滿了不定性嘛那最後還是要看談判的結果會影響到如果失誤判的話就會反彈了因為在不定的過程中\n478504\t498917\t我們如果從整體出口來看會變高的原因是因為因為從現在你看我們的圖表已經知道了啦從2月份一直下滑到現在啦就GDP的評估我們大概估計在1到1.5還會再下降嗎你估到會再下降它是會有成長但是不會到6點多整個經濟的成長率\n501539\t509441\t我看這個3%是太過於樂觀了下半年會比較趨緩所以根據我們中經院在7月17號公布我們經濟預測也有做出同樣的評估尤其是我們的關稅戰已經影響到國際體系整個經貿的一個模式尤其世界各國針對關稅的成本的上升也可能引起全球的通貨膨脹所以 主委\n531247\t548314\t這個整個經濟的成長率的你們可能會下修嗎經濟成長率我們原來預估是用3.1預估的那因為我們上半年到6.67那你剛剛講說會下修一點多了那個下修是下半年的部分所以全年我們還是維持在3.1\n551995\t571314\t現在已經要下半年了對下半年有可能到1到我剛講到1到1.5之間所以上半年6.67兩個加起來的話我們現在還是在很有信心在3以上但我們還是在所有的政策都在力保3.1的目標不變\n572665\t577767\t是 諸位我們現在看到我們的關稅雖然從32%降到這個20%是有階段性的一個成果但是我們最主要跟我們有競爭的國家它的 我們還是比他們高在這種情形之下我們應該要整合各個部會的資源來對於整個我們關稅會受到衝擊的一些優勢的地方來做一個調整那譬如說像剛剛講的這個晶片\n602076\t607341\t台積電在美國了在美國所以他可能豁免了那其他國家呢聯電呢還是立積電呢他們如果沒有去美國投資的他們會不會受到很大衝擊這方面你都要去協助他們更加的有這個競爭力整個狀況你都要去了解 好不好那讓我們的整個經濟不衝擊的地方可以\n625677\t641036\t讓他們更得到一些保障或者是說在我們整體的這個貿易受到挫折的時候這個低迷的狀況我們可以度過這個難關好的好的這都一定要不是台積電而已我們很多在研發這個高制程的一個研發單位他們都會面臨這個問題對\n644340\t658067\t我們這次也有預算去協助他們他們又不去投資不是每個都要投資我們不能逼企業出走台積電已經被你們逼走了我希望後面的不要被逼走我們怎麼樣協助他們度過這個難關好不好我們一定會協助企業度過難關的謝謝委員好 謝謝現在請王鴻薇委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席 請劉主委劉主委我延伸剛剛的問題在我們這次的特別條例裡面我們是用32%關稅相對的關稅的32%來做這個特別條例所以現在關稅已經降到20%了所以應該是足夠來應付這次的關稅的問題\n我剛才講的是說剛才是提到半導體產業那這個百分之百的關稅由誰負責\n會影響到產業 不只是半導體 不只是晶片可是有去投資的 豁免關稅是一定會豁免的大家會去談 怎麼來分攤 還沒發生其實這些問題 很多問題都要問經濟部經濟部不來 只好叫你來了那我們就聊聊吧\n那主委目前川普對我們這個關稅已經宣布說是20%了那賴總統第一時間也開了記者會說這是暫時性的稅率請問主委這個暫時性要多久啊我不是那麼清楚要多久但是我至少我知道以你的判斷評估呢我很難去預測啦因為\n很多事情不掌握在我們手上所以我剛剛也有聽到你講說這個關稅就是川普他們單方面的宣布而已並沒有實質跟哪些國家有白紙黑紙的簽約是不是\n這個是目前來講的話我們看到的訊息是這樣是這樣子的話那所以就要看表現你剛才講說要看表現那表現的話就像現在已經宣布了日本跟韓國他們的關稅是15%日本韓國是我們主要競爭的國家對不對\n他們這個15%還有附帶條件要投資5000億、3500億是不是那現在我們外面尼克拉斯州你不承認這個4000億的問題但是已經一直喊從2000億美金、3000億美金已經喊到4000億美金還不知道川普願不願意投資這些金額就可以給我們降低所以我們的目標是不是盡量努力就是要降低到跟日本、韓國一樣最起碼\n才是我們在競爭力上有個持平的點我想大家都會朝這個方向在努力有15%我們就已經很高興了對不對那現在 主委那現在我們要談到15%的話你認為我們有什麼空間籌碼跟他談\n主要還是跟委員報告因為我沒有參與到這個談判我說請你的評估因為你是國發會你可以橫跨各部會整合調整各部會的資源來幫助度過這個關稅問題啊所以我才問你你又整合了這事情這麼久了四月份到現在\n八月了 要八月了這個時間裡面各部會整合一下相對應的要應對的有沒有戰略性的建議的合作的這個價值在那邊還是說我們各部會有什麼相關的這些可以支援可以來對我們產業的幫忙不要讓我們產業受到這麼大的衝擊應該有嘛\n沒有 這次是一個比較重大的 所以都在院這邊在整合啦那我們都扮演 我們的角色是資源的角色 而且我們分工在中長期的規劃啦那我們就專注在中長期的規劃 因為短期我們資源在各部會那各位 中長期的規劃裡面 有沒有看到我們台灣要做哪些讓步\n我從中長期來看我們是看到要去轉型要重新佈局企業需要去轉型所以我們編列了一些計畫舉個例子我們AI十大建設裡面就有很大的一塊協助企業進行AI轉型把產品你希望國內的需要的市場能夠再擴大\n國內來供應就夠了還有國內趕快要走到AI我知道AI這個是我們下一波必須要做的事情所以這是我們已經計畫要執行的部分不只這樣還有開拓新市場像現在工具機有一個很大的新市場在印度那還有一塊也不算小的市場在土耳其那我們也要協助他們往多元化的去發展市場所以這個我們\n我們台灣是出口導向的國家那人口是很重要的我們台灣多少人口2350萬人口對美國多少人口印度多少人口大陸多少人口這就是很需要的一個問題對不對是的\n就是我們出口的導向的問題就在這邊這都是國發會你要先為以籌謀看到這些問題要做了準備功夫所以我才會問你說你有準備我們有什麼地方的讓步提到說4000億美金的投資這是我們最大的讓步嗎還是我們可以承受更多承受到哪個程度你有評估過嗎這個是我們有專業的專業評估過嗎國發應該要知道的\n我們就是扮演資源的角色啦是啊 所以問你我們的資源夠承擔這個未來要讓步的地方嗎投資的地方我相信我們的前線談判的團隊應該有做好前線談判也是一個團隊一個團隊包括你們啊你們提供給他資源啊我的承受度可以到哪裡對不對 我的資源可以到哪裡\n四千億還是只能到三千億這你沒有提供給他他是有談判籌碼跟底線對不對你沒有底線你怎麼談呢我們的籌碼不會我想不會只有那當然所以我要你評估嘛你今天只能做評估的角色告訴我們讓國人稍微有個底啊對不對因為我沒有參與我沒辦法評估我知道你今天講很多遍了好\n我要請問這個籌碼跟這個能力的部分主委你沒辦法評估我相信在一個團隊裡面都要提供這些資料給我們談判的人他們才有辦法進一步去談來來回回因為現在沒有簽約啊美國完全看我們的表現啊這個表現就是你們要去談啊才能表現到他滿意嘛所以主委剛剛有提到啦\n因為我們現在是出國導向的國家那現在我們看到經濟景氣你一直說經濟景氣不錯沒有錯啦在二月份的時候我們還是紅燈到現在四月份的話已經變成綠燈那你看看這個關稅的情形下來的話我們會不會變成藍燈啊\n你有沒有看到?這個你就要評估囉這個我們是有評估啦我們是看兩個東西這個是落後指標啦我們領先指標來看的話是有下滑的現象那當然這裡面會因為充滿了不定性嘛那最後還是要看談判的結果會影響到如果失誤判的話就會反彈了因為在不定的過程中\n我們如果從整體出口來看會變高的原因是因為因為從現在你看我們的圖表已經知道了啦從2月份一直下滑到現在啦就GDP的評估我們大概估計在1到1.5還會再下降嗎你估到會再下降它是會有成長但是不會到6點多整個經濟的成長率\n我看這個3%是太過於樂觀了下半年會比較趨緩所以根據我們中經院在7月17號公布我們經濟預測也有做出同樣的評估尤其是我們的關稅戰已經影響到國際體系整個經貿的一個模式尤其世界各國針對關稅的成本的上升也可能引起全球的通貨膨脹所以 主委\n這個整個經濟的成長率的你們可能會下修嗎經濟成長率我們原來預估是用3.1預估的那因為我們上半年到6.67那你剛剛講說會下修一點多了那個下修是下半年的部分所以全年我們還是維持在3.1\n現在已經要下半年了對下半年有可能到1到我剛講到1到1.5之間所以上半年6.67兩個加起來的話我們現在還是在很有信心在3以上但我們還是在所有的政策都在力保3.1的目標不變\n是 諸位我們現在看到我們的關稅雖然從32%降到這個20%是有階段性的一個成果但是我們最主要跟我們有競爭的國家它的 我們還是比他們高在這種情形之下我們應該要整合各個部會的資源來對於整個我們關稅會受到衝擊的一些優勢的地方來做一個調整那譬如說像剛剛講的這個晶片\n台積電在美國了在美國所以他可能豁免了那其他國家呢聯電呢還是立積電呢他們如果沒有去美國投資的他們會不會受到很大衝擊這方面你都要去協助他們更加的有這個競爭力整個狀況你都要去了解 好不好那讓我們的整個經濟不衝擊的地方可以\n讓他們更得到一些保障或者是說在我們整體的這個貿易受到挫折的時候這個低迷的狀況我們可以度過這個難關好的好的這都一定要不是台積電而已我們很多在研發這個高制程的一個研發單位他們都會面臨這個問題對\n我們這次也有預算去協助他們他們又不去投資不是每個都要投資我們不能逼企業出走台積電已經被你們逼走了我希望後面的不要被逼走我們怎麼樣協助他們度過這個難關好不好我們一定會協助企業度過難關的謝謝委員好 謝謝現在請王鴻薇委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.525 --> 00:10.188\n謝謝主席請劉主委劉主委我延伸剛剛的問題在我們這次的特別條例裡面我們是用32%關稅相對的關稅的32%來做這個特別條例所以現在關稅已經降到20%了所以應該是足夠來應付這次的關稅的問題\n\n00:36.485 --> 00:38.686\n我剛才講的是說剛才是提到半導體產業那這個百分之百的關稅由誰負責\n\n01:02.532 --> 01:07.397\n會影響到產業不只是半導體不只是晶片可是有去投資的豁免關稅是一定會豁免的大家會去談怎麼來分攤還沒發生其實這些問題很多問題都要問經濟部經濟部不來只好叫你來了那我們就聊聊吧\n\n01:22.432 --> 01:37.162\n那主委目前川普對我們這個關稅已經宣布說是20%了那賴總統第一時間也開了記者會說這是暫時性的稅率請問主委這個暫時性要多久啊我不是那麼清楚要多久但是我至少我知道以你的判斷評估呢我很難去預測啦因為\n\n01:52.672 --> 02:07.059\n很多事情不掌握在我們手上所以我剛剛也有聽到你講說這個關稅就是川普他們單方面的宣布而已並沒有實質跟哪些國家有白紙黑紙的簽約是不是\n\n02:08.118 --> 02:21.253\n這個是目前來講的話我們看到的訊息是這樣是這樣子的話那所以就要看表現你剛才講說要看表現那表現的話就像現在已經宣布了日本跟韓國他們的關稅是15%日本韓國是我們主要競爭的國家對不對\n\n02:27.660 --> 02:55.972\n他們這個15%還有附帶條件要投資5000億、3500億是不是那現在我們外面尼克拉斯州你不承認這個4000億的問題但是已經一直喊從2000億美金、3000億美金已經喊到4000億美金還不知道川普願不願意投資這些金額就可以給我們降低所以我們的目標是不是盡量努力就是要降低到跟日本、韓國一樣最起碼\n\n02:57.318 --> 03:11.395\n才是我們在競爭力上有個持平的點我想大家都會朝這個方向在努力有15%我們就已經很高興了對不對那現在主委那現在我們要談到15%的話你認為我們有什麼空間籌碼跟他談\n\n03:16.169 --> 03:34.739\n主要還是跟委員報告因為我沒有參與到這個談判我說請你的評估因為你是國發會你可以橫跨各部會整合調整各部會的資源來幫助度過這個關稅問題啊所以我才問你你又整合了這事情這麼久了四月份到現在\n\n03:35.740 --> 03:40.662\n八月了要八月了這個時間裡面各部會整合一下相對應的要應對的有沒有戰略性的建議的合作的這個價值在那邊還是說我們各部會有什麼相關的這些可以支援可以來對我們產業的幫忙不要讓我們產業受到這麼大的衝擊應該有嘛\n\n03:56.249 --> 04:14.902\n沒有這次是一個比較重大的所以都在院這邊在整合啦那我們都扮演我們的角色是資源的角色而且我們分工在中長期的規劃啦那我們就專注在中長期的規劃因為短期我們資源在各部會那各位中長期的規劃裡面有沒有看到我們台灣要做哪些讓步\n\n04:22.744 --> 04:38.594\n我從中長期來看我們是看到要去轉型要重新佈局企業需要去轉型所以我們編列了一些計畫舉個例子我們AI十大建設裡面就有很大的一塊協助企業進行AI轉型把產品你希望國內的需要的市場能夠再擴大\n\n04:44.698 --> 05:11.003\n國內來供應就夠了還有國內趕快要走到AI我知道AI這個是我們下一波必須要做的事情所以這是我們已經計畫要執行的部分不只這樣還有開拓新市場像現在工具機有一個很大的新市場在印度那還有一塊也不算小的市場在土耳其那我們也要協助他們往多元化的去發展市場所以這個我們\n\n05:11.923 --> 05:24.602\n我們台灣是出口導向的國家那人口是很重要的我們台灣多少人口2350萬人口對美國多少人口印度多少人口大陸多少人口這就是很需要的一個問題對不對是的\n\n05:27.125 --> 05:48.583\n就是我們出口的導向的問題就在這邊這都是國發會你要先為以籌謀看到這些問題要做了準備功夫所以我才會問你說你有準備我們有什麼地方的讓步提到說4000億美金的投資這是我們最大的讓步嗎還是我們可以承受更多承受到哪個程度你有評估過嗎這個是我們有專業的專業評估過嗎國發應該要知道的\n\n05:54.960 --> 06:15.705\n我們就是扮演資源的角色啦是啊所以問你我們的資源夠承擔這個未來要讓步的地方嗎投資的地方我相信我們的前線談判的團隊應該有做好前線談判也是一個團隊一個團隊包括你們啊你們提供給他資源啊我的承受度可以到哪裡對不對我的資源可以到哪裡\n\n06:20.546 --> 06:42.444\n四千億還是只能到三千億這你沒有提供給他他是有談判籌碼跟底線對不對你沒有底線你怎麼談呢我們的籌碼不會我想不會只有那當然所以我要你評估嘛你今天只能做評估的角色告訴我們讓國人稍微有個底啊對不對因為我沒有參與我沒辦法評估我知道你今天講很多遍了好\n\n06:43.410 --> 07:06.842\n我要請問這個籌碼跟這個能力的部分主委你沒辦法評估我相信在一個團隊裡面都要提供這些資料給我們談判的人他們才有辦法進一步去談來來回回因為現在沒有簽約啊美國完全看我們的表現啊這個表現就是你們要去談啊才能表現到他滿意嘛所以主委剛剛有提到啦\n\n07:12.659 --> 07:23.485\n因為我們現在是出國導向的國家那現在我們看到經濟景氣你一直說經濟景氣不錯沒有錯啦在二月份的時候我們還是紅燈到現在四月份的話已經變成綠燈那你看看這個關稅的情形下來的話我們會不會變成藍燈啊\n\n07:32.728 --> 07:57.043\n你有沒有看到?這個你就要評估囉這個我們是有評估啦我們是看兩個東西這個是落後指標啦我們領先指標來看的話是有下滑的現象那當然這裡面會因為充滿了不定性嘛那最後還是要看談判的結果會影響到如果失誤判的話就會反彈了因為在不定的過程中\n\n07:58.504 --> 08:18.917\n我們如果從整體出口來看會變高的原因是因為因為從現在你看我們的圖表已經知道了啦從2月份一直下滑到現在啦就GDP的評估我們大概估計在1到1.5還會再下降嗎你估到會再下降它是會有成長但是不會到6點多整個經濟的成長率\n\n08:21.539 --> 08:29.441\n我看這個3%是太過於樂觀了下半年會比較趨緩所以根據我們中經院在7月17號公布我們經濟預測也有做出同樣的評估尤其是我們的關稅戰已經影響到國際體系整個經貿的一個模式尤其世界各國針對關稅的成本的上升也可能引起全球的通貨膨脹所以主委\n\n08:51.247 --> 09:08.314\n這個整個經濟的成長率的你們可能會下修嗎經濟成長率我們原來預估是用3.1預估的那因為我們上半年到6.67那你剛剛講說會下修一點多了那個下修是下半年的部分所以全年我們還是維持在3.1\n\n09:11.995 --> 09:31.314\n現在已經要下半年了對下半年有可能到1到我剛講到1到1.5之間所以上半年6.67兩個加起來的話我們現在還是在很有信心在3以上但我們還是在所有的政策都在力保3.1的目標不變\n\n09:32.665 --> 09:37.767\n是諸位我們現在看到我們的關稅雖然從32%降到這個20%是有階段性的一個成果但是我們最主要跟我們有競爭的國家它的我們還是比他們高在這種情形之下我們應該要整合各個部會的資源來對於整個我們關稅會受到衝擊的一些優勢的地方來做一個調整那譬如說像剛剛講的這個晶片\n\n10:02.076 --> 10:07.341\n台積電在美國了在美國所以他可能豁免了那其他國家呢聯電呢還是立積電呢他們如果沒有去美國投資的他們會不會受到很大衝擊這方面你都要去協助他們更加的有這個競爭力整個狀況你都要去了解好不好那讓我們的整個經濟不衝擊的地方可以\n\n10:25.677 --> 10:41.036\n讓他們更得到一些保障或者是說在我們整體的這個貿易受到挫折的時候這個低迷的狀況我們可以度過這個難關好的好的這都一定要不是台積電而已我們很多在研發這個高制程的一個研發單位他們都會面臨這個問題對\n\n10:44.340 --> 10:58.067\n我們這次也有預算去協助他們他們又不去投資不是每個都要投資我們不能逼企業出走台積電已經被你們逼走了我希望後面的不要被逼走我們怎麼樣協助他們度過這個難關好不好我們一定會協助企業度過難關的謝謝委員好謝謝現在請王鴻薇委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.525,"end":10.188,"text":"謝謝主席 請劉主委劉主委我延伸剛剛的問題在我們這次的特別條例裡面我們是用32%關稅相對的關稅的32%來做這個特別條例所以現在關稅已經降到20%了所以應該是足夠來應付這次的關稅的問題"},{"start":36.485,"end":38.686,"text":"我剛才講的是說剛才是提到半導體產業那這個百分之百的關稅由誰負責"},{"start":62.532,"end":67.397,"text":"會影響到產業 不只是半導體 不只是晶片可是有去投資的 豁免關稅是一定會豁免的大家會去談 怎麼來分攤 還沒發生其實這些問題 很多問題都要問經濟部經濟部不來 只好叫你來了那我們就聊聊吧"},{"start":82.432,"end":97.162,"text":"那主委目前川普對我們這個關稅已經宣布說是20%了那賴總統第一時間也開了記者會說這是暫時性的稅率請問主委這個暫時性要多久啊我不是那麼清楚要多久但是我至少我知道以你的判斷評估呢我很難去預測啦因為"},{"start":112.672,"end":127.059,"text":"很多事情不掌握在我們手上所以我剛剛也有聽到你講說這個關稅就是川普他們單方面的宣布而已並沒有實質跟哪些國家有白紙黑紙的簽約是不是"},{"start":128.118,"end":141.253,"text":"這個是目前來講的話我們看到的訊息是這樣是這樣子的話那所以就要看表現你剛才講說要看表現那表現的話就像現在已經宣布了日本跟韓國他們的關稅是15%日本韓國是我們主要競爭的國家對不對"},{"start":147.66,"end":175.972,"text":"他們這個15%還有附帶條件要投資5000億、3500億是不是那現在我們外面尼克拉斯州你不承認這個4000億的問題但是已經一直喊從2000億美金、3000億美金已經喊到4000億美金還不知道川普願不願意投資這些金額就可以給我們降低所以我們的目標是不是盡量努力就是要降低到跟日本、韓國一樣最起碼"},{"start":177.318,"end":191.395,"text":"才是我們在競爭力上有個持平的點我想大家都會朝這個方向在努力有15%我們就已經很高興了對不對那現在 主委那現在我們要談到15%的話你認為我們有什麼空間籌碼跟他談"},{"start":196.169,"end":214.739,"text":"主要還是跟委員報告因為我沒有參與到這個談判我說請你的評估因為你是國發會你可以橫跨各部會整合調整各部會的資源來幫助度過這個關稅問題啊所以我才問你你又整合了這事情這麼久了四月份到現在"},{"start":215.74,"end":220.662,"text":"八月了 要八月了這個時間裡面各部會整合一下相對應的要應對的有沒有戰略性的建議的合作的這個價值在那邊還是說我們各部會有什麼相關的這些可以支援可以來對我們產業的幫忙不要讓我們產業受到這麼大的衝擊應該有嘛"},{"start":236.249,"end":254.902,"text":"沒有 這次是一個比較重大的 所以都在院這邊在整合啦那我們都扮演 我們的角色是資源的角色 而且我們分工在中長期的規劃啦那我們就專注在中長期的規劃 因為短期我們資源在各部會那各位 中長期的規劃裡面 有沒有看到我們台灣要做哪些讓步"},{"start":262.744,"end":278.594,"text":"我從中長期來看我們是看到要去轉型要重新佈局企業需要去轉型所以我們編列了一些計畫舉個例子我們AI十大建設裡面就有很大的一塊協助企業進行AI轉型把產品你希望國內的需要的市場能夠再擴大"},{"start":284.698,"end":311.003,"text":"國內來供應就夠了還有國內趕快要走到AI我知道AI這個是我們下一波必須要做的事情所以這是我們已經計畫要執行的部分不只這樣還有開拓新市場像現在工具機有一個很大的新市場在印度那還有一塊也不算小的市場在土耳其那我們也要協助他們往多元化的去發展市場所以這個我們"},{"start":311.923,"end":324.602,"text":"我們台灣是出口導向的國家那人口是很重要的我們台灣多少人口2350萬人口對美國多少人口印度多少人口大陸多少人口這就是很需要的一個問題對不對是的"},{"start":327.125,"end":348.583,"text":"就是我們出口的導向的問題就在這邊這都是國發會你要先為以籌謀看到這些問題要做了準備功夫所以我才會問你說你有準備我們有什麼地方的讓步提到說4000億美金的投資這是我們最大的讓步嗎還是我們可以承受更多承受到哪個程度你有評估過嗎這個是我們有專業的專業評估過嗎國發應該要知道的"},{"start":354.96,"end":375.705,"text":"我們就是扮演資源的角色啦是啊 所以問你我們的資源夠承擔這個未來要讓步的地方嗎投資的地方我相信我們的前線談判的團隊應該有做好前線談判也是一個團隊一個團隊包括你們啊你們提供給他資源啊我的承受度可以到哪裡對不對 我的資源可以到哪裡"},{"start":380.546,"end":402.444,"text":"四千億還是只能到三千億這你沒有提供給他他是有談判籌碼跟底線對不對你沒有底線你怎麼談呢我們的籌碼不會我想不會只有那當然所以我要你評估嘛你今天只能做評估的角色告訴我們讓國人稍微有個底啊對不對因為我沒有參與我沒辦法評估我知道你今天講很多遍了好"},{"start":403.41,"end":426.842,"text":"我要請問這個籌碼跟這個能力的部分主委你沒辦法評估我相信在一個團隊裡面都要提供這些資料給我們談判的人他們才有辦法進一步去談來來回回因為現在沒有簽約啊美國完全看我們的表現啊這個表現就是你們要去談啊才能表現到他滿意嘛所以主委剛剛有提到啦"},{"start":432.659,"end":443.485,"text":"因為我們現在是出國導向的國家那現在我們看到經濟景氣你一直說經濟景氣不錯沒有錯啦在二月份的時候我們還是紅燈到現在四月份的話已經變成綠燈那你看看這個關稅的情形下來的話我們會不會變成藍燈啊"},{"start":452.728,"end":477.043,"text":"你有沒有看到?這個你就要評估囉這個我們是有評估啦我們是看兩個東西這個是落後指標啦我們領先指標來看的話是有下滑的現象那當然這裡面會因為充滿了不定性嘛那最後還是要看談判的結果會影響到如果失誤判的話就會反彈了因為在不定的過程中"},{"start":478.504,"end":498.917,"text":"我們如果從整體出口來看會變高的原因是因為因為從現在你看我們的圖表已經知道了啦從2月份一直下滑到現在啦就GDP的評估我們大概估計在1到1.5還會再下降嗎你估到會再下降它是會有成長但是不會到6點多整個經濟的成長率"},{"start":501.539,"end":509.441,"text":"我看這個3%是太過於樂觀了下半年會比較趨緩所以根據我們中經院在7月17號公布我們經濟預測也有做出同樣的評估尤其是我們的關稅戰已經影響到國際體系整個經貿的一個模式尤其世界各國針對關稅的成本的上升也可能引起全球的通貨膨脹所以 主委"},{"start":531.247,"end":548.314,"text":"這個整個經濟的成長率的你們可能會下修嗎經濟成長率我們原來預估是用3.1預估的那因為我們上半年到6.67那你剛剛講說會下修一點多了那個下修是下半年的部分所以全年我們還是維持在3.1"},{"start":551.995,"end":571.314,"text":"現在已經要下半年了對下半年有可能到1到我剛講到1到1.5之間所以上半年6.67兩個加起來的話我們現在還是在很有信心在3以上但我們還是在所有的政策都在力保3.1的目標不變"},{"start":572.665,"end":577.767,"text":"是 諸位我們現在看到我們的關稅雖然從32%降到這個20%是有階段性的一個成果但是我們最主要跟我們有競爭的國家它的 我們還是比他們高在這種情形之下我們應該要整合各個部會的資源來對於整個我們關稅會受到衝擊的一些優勢的地方來做一個調整那譬如說像剛剛講的這個晶片"},{"start":602.076,"end":607.341,"text":"台積電在美國了在美國所以他可能豁免了那其他國家呢聯電呢還是立積電呢他們如果沒有去美國投資的他們會不會受到很大衝擊這方面你都要去協助他們更加的有這個競爭力整個狀況你都要去了解 好不好那讓我們的整個經濟不衝擊的地方可以"},{"start":625.677,"end":641.036,"text":"讓他們更得到一些保障或者是說在我們整體的這個貿易受到挫折的時候這個低迷的狀況我們可以度過這個難關好的好的這都一定要不是台積電而已我們很多在研發這個高制程的一個研發單位他們都會面臨這個問題對"},{"start":644.34,"end":658.067,"text":"我們這次也有預算去協助他們他們又不去投資不是每個都要投資我們不能逼企業出走台積電已經被你們逼走了我希望後面的不要被逼走我們怎麼樣協助他們度過這個難關好不好我們一定會協助企業度過難關的謝謝委員好 謝謝現在請王鴻薇委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":903,"blocks":[["呂委員玉玲：（11時50分）謝謝主席。請劉主委。"],["主席：劉主委。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：呂委員好。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，我延伸剛剛的問題。在這次的特別條例裡面，我們是用32%關稅來做這個特別條例，但現在關稅已經降到20%了，所以應該是足夠來應付這次關稅的問題，對不對？雖然232條款可能會影響到其他產業，這點我們另當別論，事情已經發生了，剛剛主委也特別提到，如果有受到232條例影響的產業，產業自己也會去談，我剛剛聽得很清楚，是不是這樣子？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：剛才是提到半導體產業，這個100%的關稅由誰負責？每一家公司都會跟他的客戶……"],["呂委員玉玲：會受影響的產業不只是半導體，不只是晶片啦！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我剛剛是在回答……"],["呂委員玉玲：可是有去投資的，豁免關稅是一定會豁免的啦！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我剛剛講的是這一段，大家會去談，怎麼來分攤或者是由誰來付……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，還沒發生，其實這些問題、很多問題都要問經濟部，經濟部不來，只好叫你來了。那我們就聊聊吧！主委，目前美國對我們的關稅，川普已經宣布說是20%了，賴總統第一時間也開了記者會說，這是暫時性的稅率，請問主委，這個暫時性要多久啊？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我不是那麼清楚要多久，但是至少我知道我們還在談判當中……"],["呂委員玉玲：依你的判斷評估呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我很難去臆測啦！因為很多事情不掌握在我們手上。"],["呂委員玉玲：我剛剛也有聽到你講關稅是川普他們單方面的宣布而已，並沒有實質跟哪些國家有白紙黑字的簽約，是不是？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：目前來講的話，我們看到的訊息是這樣。"],["呂委員玉玲：是這樣子的話，所以就要看表現……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：但是都有講好……"],["呂委員玉玲：你剛才講說要看表現，就像現在已經宣布了日本跟韓國他們的關稅是15%，日本、韓國是我們主要競爭的國家，對不對？他們這個15%還有附帶條件，要投資5,000億、3,500億，是不是？你剛剛說你不承認這個4,000億的問題，但是一直喊，從2,000億美金、3,000億美金，已經喊到4,000億美金，投資這些金額，還不知道川普願不願意給我們降低關稅，所以我們的目標是不是儘量努力，最起碼就是要降低到跟日本、韓國一樣？我們在競爭力上才有個持平的點？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我想大家都會朝這個方向努力。"],["呂委員玉玲：有15%我們就已經很高興了啦！對不對？主委，如果我們談到15%的話，你認為我們有什麼空間籌碼跟他談？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：主要還是跟委員報告，因為我沒有參與到這個談判，這些細節我都不知道……"],["呂委員玉玲：我說請你評估，因為你是國發會，你可以橫跨各部會，整合、調整各部會的資源來幫助大家度過這個關稅的問題啊！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我才問你，你有整合了，這事情這麼久了，4月份到現在8月了，要8月了，這段時間你沒有把各部會整合一下，相對應要應對的、有沒有戰略性的建議、合作的價值在那邊？還是說我們各部會有什麼相關的資源可以來幫忙我們的產業，不要讓我們產業受到這麼大的衝擊？應該有嘛？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：沒有，這次是一個比較重大的，所以都在院這邊整合，我們的角色就是支援的角色，而且我們的分工是在中長期的規劃，所以我們就專注在中長期的規劃，因為短期的……資源在各部會，所以它是由各部會去彙整到院……"],["呂委員玉玲：是，主委，在中長期的規劃裡面，有沒有看到我們臺灣要做哪些讓步？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我從中長期來看，我們是看到要去轉型啦，要重新布局，企業需要去轉型，所以我們編列了一些計畫，舉個例子，我們AI十大建設裡面就有很大的一塊是協助企業進行AI轉型，把產品AI化……"],["呂委員玉玲：對，這個你早上有報告，我聽過了，你希望國內需要的市場能夠再擴大，國內來供應就夠了，還有國內要趕快走到AI……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不只……"],["呂委員玉玲：我知道AI是我們下一波必須要做的事情……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，但……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以這個是我們已經計畫要執行的部分……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：不只這樣，還有開拓新市場，像現在工具機在印度有一個很大的新市場，還有一塊也不算小的市場在土耳其，我們也要協助他們多元化的去發展市場。"],["呂委員玉玲：對啊！我們臺灣是出口導向的國家，人口是很重要的，我們臺灣有多少人口？2,350萬人口。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對。"],["呂委員玉玲：美國有多少人口？印度有多少人口？大陸有多少人口？這就是很需要的問題，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["呂委員玉玲：就是我們出口導向的問題，就在這邊，這都是國發會你要未雨綢繆先看到這些問題，要做的準備功夫。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：是的。"],["呂委員玉玲：所以我才會問你，你有準備我們什麼地方要讓步？這4,000億美金的投資是我們最大的讓步嗎？還是我們可以承受更多？承受到哪個程度，你有評估過嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我們有專業的團隊在……"],["呂委員玉玲：專業？評估過嗎？國發會應該要知道的。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們就是扮演支援的角色啦！"],["呂委員玉玲：是啊！所以我問你我們的資源夠承擔未來要讓步的地方嗎？投資的地方。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我相信我們前線談判的團隊應該有做好評估跟準備……"],["呂委員玉玲：前線談判也是一個團隊，一個團隊包括你們啊！你們提供他資源，告知你的承受度可以到哪裡，對不對？我的支援可以到哪裡？是4,000億？還是只能到3,000億，這你們要提供給他，他才有談判的籌碼跟底線，對不對？你沒有底線，你要怎麼談呢？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們的籌碼我想不會只有投資的部分……"],["呂委員玉玲：那當然！所以我要你評估嘛！你今天只能做評估的角色，告訴我們，讓國人稍微有個底，對不對？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為我沒有參與，我沒辦法評估。"],["呂委員玉玲：我知道，你已經講很多遍了。關於籌碼跟能力的部分，主委你沒辦法評估，但我相信在一個團隊裡面，你都要提供這些資料給我們談判的人，他們才有辦法進一步去談，來來回回，因為現在沒有簽約，美國完全看我們的表現啊！這個表現就是你們要去談，表現到讓他滿意嘛！所以主委剛剛有提到，因為我們是出口導向的國家，現在我們看到經濟景氣，你一直說經濟景氣不錯，沒有錯啦！在2月份的時候，我們還是紅燈，到現在8月份的話，已經變成……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：現在是綠燈。"],["呂委員玉玲：那你看看這個關稅下來的話，我們會不會變成藍燈？你有沒有看到？這個你就要評估了！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：這個我們是有評估！我們是看兩個東西，這個是落後指標，我們從領先指標來看的話，是有下滑的現象，當然這裡面會……因為充滿了不定性，最後還是要看談判的結果，會影響到……"],["呂委員玉玲：如果是15%的話，就會反彈了。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：因為它還會變動，因為在不定的過程中，我們如果從整體出口來看，會變高的原因是因為……"],["呂委員玉玲：現在你看我們的圖表也知道了，從2月份一直下滑到現在。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：就GDP的評估，我們大概估計在1到1.5……"],["呂委員玉玲：還會再下降嘛？你也估到會再下降？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：它是會有成長，但是不會到六點多，大概是1到1.5……"],["呂委員玉玲：所以整個經濟的成長率，我看這個3%是太過於樂觀了，太過於樂觀了……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：下半年會比較趨緩！"],["呂委員玉玲：根據中經院在7月17號公布，經濟預測也有做出同樣的評估，尤其是關稅戰已經影響到整個國際經貿體系的模式，世界各國也針對關稅成本的上升，也可能引起全球的通貨膨脹，所以主委，你們可能會下修經濟成長率嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：關於經濟成長率，我們原來預估是用3.1去預估的，因為我們上半年到6.67。"],["呂委員玉玲：你剛才說會下修，一點多了。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：那個下修是下半年的部分，所以全年我們還會……"],["呂委員玉玲：現在不是下半年了嗎？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：全年我們還是維持在3.1。"],["呂委員玉玲：現在已經要下半年啦！"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，下半年有可能到……我剛剛講到1到1.5之間。"],["呂委員玉玲：是，所以……"],["劉主任委員鏡清：所以上半年6.67，兩個加起來的話，我們現在還是很有信心在3%以上，且我們所有的政策都在力保3.1%的目標不變。"],["呂委員玉玲：主委，雖然現在看到我們的關稅從32%降到20%，是有階段性的成果，但是最主要跟我們有競爭的國家，我們還是比他們高，在這種情形之下，我們應該要整合各個部會的資源，對於整個會受到關稅衝擊的一些優勢的地方來做調整。譬如說剛才講的晶片，像台積電在美國設廠，所以它可能豁免了，那其他公司呢？聯電呢？還是力積電呢？他們如果沒有去美國投資的，會不會受到很大的衝擊？這方面你都要去協助他們，讓他們更加的有競爭力，整個狀況你都要去了解，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["呂委員玉玲：讓我們整個經濟被衝擊的地方可以得到一些保障，或者是在我們整體貿易受到挫折而低迷時可以度過難關。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：好的。"],["呂委員玉玲：這都一樣，不是台積電而已，我們還有很多高製程的研發單位，他們都會面臨這個問題。"],["劉主任委員鏡清：對，我們這次也有預算去協助他們……"],["呂委員玉玲：他們如果不去投資，不是每個都要投資，我們不能逼企業出走！台積電已經被你們逼走了，我希望後面的不要被逼走，我們怎麼樣協助他們度過這個難關，好不好？"],["劉主任委員鏡清：我們一定會協助企業度過難關，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","現在請王鴻薇委員詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":500,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-19-19","speakers":["謝衣鳯","楊瓊瓔","邱議瑩","賴瑞隆","陳亭妃","鄭正鈐","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","張啓楷","陳超明","邱志偉","賴士葆","李坤城","呂玉玲","王鴻薇","陳冠廷","廖先翔","葉元之","蔡易餘","林岱樺","張嘉郡"],"page_start":437,"meetingDate":["2025-08-07"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期經濟委員會第19次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國家發展委員會主任委員就「美國對等關稅底定後，我國經濟未來之景氣情況及產業全球佈\n局新規劃」進行報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147101_00010"}}}