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695.333, \"end\": 695.394, \"score\": 0.665}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"基\", \"start\": 695.394, \"end\": 695.534, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 695.534, \"end\": 695.654, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 695.654, \"end\": 695.674, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 704.892, \"end\": 711.454, \"text\": \"跟委員報告我們目前並沒有這樣一個規劃沒有規劃因為過去也從來沒有投資過所以你們去年底改變的做法啊所以才問你啊確實上個禮拜這個內部有在討論討論投資主權基金沒有有一點點錢可以用來在國內國內的這些\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 704.892, \"end\": 705.572, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 705.572, \"end\": 705.992, \"score\": 0.743}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 705.992, \"end\": 706.132, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 706.132, \"end\": 706.332, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 706.332, \"end\": 706.572, \"score\": 0.763}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 706.572, \"end\": 706.732, 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{\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 796.054, \"end\": 796.774, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 796.774, \"end\": 796.794, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 796.794, \"end\": 796.895, \"score\": 0.827}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 796.895, \"end\": 796.975, \"score\": 0.499}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"葉\"}, {\"word\": \"原\", \"start\": 796.975, \"end\": 796.995, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,275 --> 00:00:13,798\n教育部長主席謝謝好有請教育部長備質詢謝謝委員好部長好今天有一份報告是在講教師人力要怎麼補足的問題確實現在這個問題是非常嚴重我們就看代理教師就好了這是媒體的報導然後是各縣市預估\n\n2\n00:00:35,413 --> 00:00:41,718\n但也就是可能缺額的狀況像新北市預估大概有2672位桃園1642位台北1400位苗栗也有1177位情況應該是非常的嚴重\n\n3\n00:00:50,626 --> 00:01:10,411\n那我想問一下部長我不知道你有沒有掌握這個狀況因為你只要稍微去跟學校了解一下你就知道以前是在招比如在招代理教師的時候一招二招大部分都是有教師證的去應徵嘛然後到三招之後可能可以開放沒有教師證的現在可能在\n\n4\n00:01:11,611 --> 00:01:26,355\n這樣的情況可能是可能一招二招就沒有叫施政人都去應徵而且還可能都應徵不到所以這是其實是一個蠻嚴重的問題我覺得是一個蠻嚴重的問題一定要提出對策就像之前大家也在講國軍的邊線筆\n\n5\n00:01:28,416 --> 00:01:47,058\n有很大的落差所以立法院就有通過一個幫國軍加薪的方案那現在國軍在招募人才方面就有比較順利相對比較順利所以我覺得不能讓這個情況持續惡化下去好代理教師這個你有特別了解要用什麼方式來解決嗎\n\n6\n00:01:49,586 --> 00:02:15,265\n也跟委員報告事實上這樣以去年來講所有的學校以新北市我們看到了一些缺額我事實上是跟張局長是保持這個熱線的在聯繫那國教署也每個禮拜都跟這個教育局處都有在保持聯繫等於我們除了有這個平台能夠提供有一些老師想要擔任教學工作的\n\n7\n00:02:15,985 --> 00:02:35,762\n以一個媒合的一個平台以外那麼地方縣市大概也通常會到八月底之前開學之前大概都會一次一次的去部長你沒有回答我的問題喔我現在是把現象跟你講問你要怎麼解決這是結構性的問題不是說你有跟哪一個縣市聯繫的問題你要去解決這個結構性問題就像我剛剛舉國軍的例子\n\n8\n00:02:40,146 --> 00:03:07,180\n如果說是待遇的問題或其他問題我們要對症下藥讓這個環境可以變好我現在講的是結構性我不會講說你有跟我沒有說你跟那第一個因為我不知道部長這個我個人是認為這個問題嚴重但剛剛初步聽你的回答你並沒有直指問題核心來做回答我們確實在政策上從1111年國教署我們教育部就有訂了一個辦法\n\n9\n00:03:08,981 --> 00:03:32,135\n111學年度開始我們就因為為什麼會有很多的老師的缺額代理代課老師現在各縣市開始大量的報這個正式的教師的缺額出來開始招考是因為我們在地方的一個獎補助裡面把教師的那個員額裡面的控留不能超過8%\n\n10\n00:03:34,505 --> 00:04:02,817\n所以這也造成這幾年我們看到台灣各縣市大概就把名額開出來因為當然我們也可以理解少子化裡邊當然各縣市你這樣講你還是沒有講到問題的核心現在的問題是說代理叫做缺額是沒有人要來應徵不是說你開幾個元額出來的問題我覺得大家要面對問題今天也不是來責備你說這個教育的問題我覺得是要來處理的那環境要改善我這邊就直接講兩個建議\n\n11\n00:04:04,378 --> 00:04:19,651\n第一個建議我先建議部長你自己去學校跟一些老師座談了解一下老師現在的教學環境是怎麼樣比如說像有一些老師動不動就被檢舉我覺得如果老師有問題站在家長站在教育的立場\n\n12\n00:04:20,351 --> 00:04:43,698\n當然是可以去檢舉譬如說有的老師可能情緒有問題啊或者是他也許真的是某方面如何如何檢舉你們會產生校事會議調查但現在是老師動不動就被檢舉而且那個檢舉是不太需要有人事實地務的一個主觀的評論就可以檢舉譬如說我覺得你今天部長講話特別的兇馬上就要成立校事會來調查\n\n13\n00:04:45,579 --> 00:05:08,442\n我覺得部長看起來行為很乖張很囂張你就要被調查可是你可能沒有啊這個人的主觀意識啊一句話就可以把你送校士會議校士會議大概要好幾個月然後老師在這段時間遭受極大壓力所以現在橫河老師因為這樣的狀況就有的時候他們就會跟學弟妹講說我建議你就不要來當老師了\n\n14\n00:05:09,463 --> 00:05:27,146\n所以你可以看台北市教育局啊在他們接受媒體訪問怎麼講他說現在也不是說什麼原額不原額的問題啊現在是有很多具備資格的人他都不想要投入這個產業啊所以第一個是你要想辦法我建議你啦我真的建議部長\n\n15\n00:05:28,067 --> 00:05:46,486\n因為您之前也是國教出身的嘛只是後來去高教嘛那也許有脫離一段時間環境變化很大去跟老師座談一下真正實地去問他們為什麼你們現在覺得你們學弟妹不願意來然後你們覺得在這個工作上面是有哪些挫折\n\n16\n00:05:47,327 --> 00:06:13,823\n真的去認真了解然後對證效果像我剛舉那個校事會議坦白說我就認為給他們很大的壓力了其實我們校事會議這個確實怎麼樣去落實讓他分流初步的審查分流而不要動不動全部都到校事會議裡邊那你要提出辦法來處理嘛因為現在我講的是現狀嘛現狀就是這樣啊那老師因為很怕無緣無故被檢舉所以什麼事情都採的比較保守的態度啊\n\n17\n00:06:15,524 --> 00:06:35,914\n那這其實最後受害的還是學生啊因為老師就會變得我多做多錯嘛會有這種心理壓力嘛所以在制度上你要做改善好不好不然我是不是建議你跟老師聊一聊好不好去了解一下他們狀況然後在環境上的改變謝謝委員你會做嗎可以沒有問題那什麼時候要做\n\n18\n00:06:37,101 --> 00:07:01,523\n隨時可以做隨時是什麼時候嘛每次我們在這邊好像都在跟你講了然後你講了你每次都說你建議的不錯八月底之前我下次再來問你問你跟老師們聊怎麼樣然後制度上怎麼改善第二個待遇啦因為剛剛舉軍人的例子嘛待遇啦像我其實碰到蠻多老師跟我反映導師費行政費這兩件事情導師費現在一個月三千塊對不對\n\n19\n00:07:03,069 --> 00:07:08,981\n其實已經很久沒有調了啦還有另外一個是行政費行政費按照值級最低組長是4500塊\n\n20\n00:07:11,304 --> 00:07:39,309\n這個部分是不是可以請教育部我覺得統一編預算來補助因為以前講到這個你們都會去扯說那是地方政府啊要負責啊裁員如何如何我覺得如果一體式全國一體適用的話其實可以由教育部來編預算來做補助因為這已經第一個很久沒有條了而且剛剛我有聽到其他委員講那個行政大逃亡我也很關心這個議題行政大逃亡很多行政職不願意兼行政就是覺得兼的好像也沒有\n\n21\n00:07:40,336 --> 00:08:00,209\n付出非常多可是能夠得到的收穫甚至我講的也不見得一定是錢尊重也都沒有我覺得尊重也都沒有所以這導師費行政費這兩個可不可以八月底以後我也來跟你請教一下能不能也訂定一個你覺得合理的因為你很久沒有很久沒有調了嗎可以嗎\n\n22\n00:08:02,901 --> 00:08:28,123\n我想說我們事實上也都一直有在規劃研議規劃那種8月底來問你那也跟人事總署也做了一些適度的一些懷疑謝謝部長謝謝你有在規劃那我們要如果趕快規劃跟老師講啊大家才會更多誘因嘛得到尊重然後待遇才會投入這個教學的環境嘛可以嗎好不好盡快啦也是8月以後來問你啦還有再來問跟你請教一個問題喔\n\n23\n00:08:29,344 --> 00:08:50,966\n我有發現那個學我沒有一個教育部有一個學產基金嘛對吧是一個學產基金那在去年底的時候忽然間訂了一個修訂了那個保管的規則啊增訂說本基金為了增加收益可以購買政府公債國庫債上市公司股票跟其他短期票券不知道為什麼會做這樣的改變\n\n24\n00:08:53,390 --> 00:09:21,417\n我想我們這一個學產基金因為當然希望說如果它能夠透過這一個好的一個投資一個健康的一個投資能夠增加一些經費純粹是為了增加收益是不是這個收益事實上是有一定的一個比例是反映在支持許多這個弱勢學生或者許多的獎助學金或者等等的一些補助當然這個基金如果可以有獲利然後可以反映我們都支持\n\n25\n00:09:21,957 --> 00:09:33,608\n是忽然做出這樣的因為這個基金就有了解是三百多年三百多年歷史耶這從清朝時代就有了委員會裡面他們對教育部的一個建議那我跟您請教一下因為我\n\n26\n00:09:35,666 --> 00:10:04,846\n我有兩個建議啦第一個學衍基金說要去投資上智慧公司或公債什麼但是他並沒有揭露他到底要他到底是投資哪些項目我覺得事實應該要揭露啦因為這個基金其實蠻重要他是早期很多先人把房產捐出來然後成立一個基金然後給親台的學生然後弱勢家庭讓他們可以支持他們的教育所以這個基金非常重要我覺得應該也是要受到一定的監督所以第一個你們如果未來投資什麼\n\n27\n00:10:05,626 --> 00:10:24,329\n希望可以比照像勞動基金啊什麼來做一個適當揭露是我們每年都會在八月八月底之前會公佈因為它以前都是不動產是那不動產因為它的價值比較沒有那麼感謝委員提醒啦我想所有的投資一定是要健康合法對這一個有序的這第一個第二個是\n\n28\n00:10:25,663 --> 00:10:51,261\n因為大家知道現在關稅的問題所以賴總統在五月份他的就職一週年他說台灣可能會成立主權基金那成立主權基金其實坦白講台灣成立主權基金的條件和中東那些國家不一樣因為中東那些國家是出口天然氣、石油、有外匯多賺的錢成立主權基金然後再做海外的投資所以投資的項目都是高風險、高報酬的\n\n29\n00:10:52,702 --> 00:11:17,006\n那我們現在台灣我不知道要用什麼錢來成立主權基金是要舉債還是怎麼樣那如果你是舉債又去投資高風險高報酬的一些項目的話那當然風險大家那雖然承擔風險比例就高那我是為什麼這跟教育部有關呢因為我看到勞動部他是這樣講的他說如果政府有成立主權基金然後主權基金又要發行債券來籌措的話勞動基金是可以購買\n\n30\n00:11:19,967 --> 00:11:35,674\n坦白說我是覺得這蠻奇怪因為勞動基金應該就是要保障勞工的權益啦那個基金應該是這樣請問一下我們這個學產基金我們規模300多億對不對每年收益8億嘛300多億嘛到時候學產基金會不會跟勞動不一樣就是說把這個錢去挹注到我們政府發行的主權基金裡面會嗎\n\n31\n00:11:44,892 --> 00:11:51,454\n跟委員報告我們目前並沒有這樣一個規劃沒有規劃因為過去也從來沒有投資過所以你們去年底改變的做法啊所以才問你啊確實上個禮拜這個內部有在討論討論投資主權基金沒有有一點點錢可以用來在國內國內的這些\n\n32\n00:12:06,377 --> 00:12:25,668\n上市貴公司能夠來看投資那初步呢我們其實有一些但是還沒有定案因為我總覺得你所有的投資一定要是有一個更專業的一些會議上來形成那當然內部也跟我們報告他們有一個其實也很\n\n33\n00:12:26,468 --> 00:12:54,035\n平穩的一個想像就是國內的14家公股銀行然後找前5家3年內績效最好的就定存看怎麼樣用比定存的一個好的一個利率能夠希望能夠增加我想這個基本上到目前因為所有的委員會也等於投資的這個委員會也還沒有形成也內部僅此一再一個所以到時候會成立一個投資委員會\n\n34\n00:12:54,835 --> 00:13:16,995\n我是建議而不是你一定要成立啊不然你找一些投資門外漢來這邊投資我們只是小額的一個投資沒有很小額喔300多億沒有沒有我們最多大概就是幾千萬拿幾千萬出來投而已啦是不是OK最好是這樣啦我們目前大概的規劃大概就是這樣而已所以我們並沒有這個大致項OK好好謝謝謝謝葉原\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9275\t13798\t教育部長 主席謝謝好 有請教育部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長好今天有一份報告是在講教師人力要怎麼補足的問題確實現在這個問題是非常嚴重我們就看代理教師就好了這是媒體的報導然後是各縣市預估\n35413\t41718\t但也就是可能缺額的狀況像新北市預估大概有2672位桃園1642位台北1400位苗栗也有1177位情況應該是非常的嚴重\n50626\t70411\t那我想問一下部長我不知道你有沒有掌握這個狀況因為你只要稍微去跟學校了解一下你就知道以前是在招比如在招代理教師的時候一招二招大部分都是有教師證的去應徵嘛然後到三招之後可能可以開放沒有教師證的現在可能在\n71611\t86355\t這樣的情況可能是可能一招二招就沒有叫施政人都去應徵而且還可能都應徵不到所以這是其實是一個蠻嚴重的問題我覺得是一個蠻嚴重的問題一定要提出對策就像之前大家也在講國軍的邊線筆\n88416\t107058\t有很大的落差所以立法院就有通過一個幫國軍加薪的方案那現在國軍在招募人才方面就有比較順利 相對比較順利所以我覺得不能讓這個情況持續惡化下去好 代理教師這個你有特別了解要用什麼方式來解決嗎\n109586\t135265\t也跟委員報告事實上這樣以去年來講所有的學校以新北市我們看到了一些缺額我事實上是跟張局長是保持這個熱線的在聯繫那國教署也每個禮拜都跟這個教育局處都有在保持聯繫等於我們除了有這個平台能夠提供有一些老師想要擔任教學工作的\n135985\t155762\t以一個媒合的一個平台以外那麼地方縣市大概也通常會到八月底之前開學之前大概都會一次一次的去部長你沒有回答我的問題喔我現在是把現象跟你講問你要怎麼解決這是結構性的問題不是說你有跟哪一個縣市聯繫的問題你要去解決這個結構性問題就像我剛剛舉國軍的例子\n160146\t187180\t如果說是待遇的問題或其他問題我們要對症下藥讓這個環境可以變好我現在講的是結構性我不會講說你有跟我沒有說你跟那第一個因為我不知道部長這個我個人是認為這個問題嚴重但剛剛初步聽你的回答你並沒有直指問題核心來做回答我們確實在政策上從1111年國教署我們教育部就有訂了一個辦法\n188981\t212135\t111學年度開始我們就因為為什麼會有很多的老師的缺額代理代課老師現在各縣市開始大量的報這個正式的教師的缺額出來開始招考是因為我們在地方的一個獎補助裡面把教師的那個員額裡面的控留不能超過8%\n214505\t242817\t所以這也造成這幾年我們看到台灣各縣市大概就把名額開出來因為當然我們也可以理解少子化裡邊當然各縣市你這樣講你還是沒有講到問題的核心現在的問題是說代理叫做缺額是沒有人要來應徵不是說你開幾個元額出來的問題我覺得大家要面對問題今天也不是來責備你說這個教育的問題我覺得是要來處理的那環境要改善我這邊就直接講兩個建議\n244378\t259651\t第一個建議我先建議部長你自己去學校跟一些老師座談了解一下老師現在的教學環境是怎麼樣比如說像有一些老師動不動就被檢舉我覺得如果老師有問題站在家長 站在教育的立場\n260351\t283698\t當然是可以去檢舉譬如說有的老師可能情緒有問題啊或者是他也許真的是某方面如何如何檢舉你們會產生校事會議調查但現在是老師動不動就被檢舉而且那個檢舉是不太需要有人事實地務的一個主觀的評論就可以檢舉譬如說我覺得你今天部長講話特別的兇馬上就要成立校事會來調查\n285579\t308442\t我覺得部長看起來行為很乖張很囂張你就要被調查可是你可能沒有啊這個人的主觀意識啊一句話就可以把你送校士會議校士會議大概要好幾個月然後老師在這段時間遭受極大壓力所以現在橫河老師因為這樣的狀況就有的時候他們就會跟學弟妹講說我建議你就不要來當老師了\n309463\t327146\t所以你可以看台北市教育局啊在他們接受媒體訪問怎麼講他說現在也不是說什麼原額不原額的問題啊現在是有很多具備資格的人他都不想要投入這個產業啊所以第一個是你要想辦法我建議你啦我真的建議部長\n328067\t346486\t因為您之前也是國教出身的嘛只是後來去高教嘛那也許有脫離一段時間環境變化很大去跟老師座談一下真正實地去問他們為什麼你們現在覺得你們學弟妹不願意來然後你們覺得在這個工作上面是有哪些挫折\n347327\t373823\t真的去認真了解然後對證效果像我剛舉那個校事會議坦白說我就認為給他們很大的壓力了其實我們校事會議這個確實怎麼樣去落實讓他分流初步的審查分流而不要動不動全部都到校事會議裡邊那你要提出辦法來處理嘛因為現在我講的是現狀嘛現狀就是這樣啊那老師因為很怕無緣無故被檢舉所以什麼事情都採的比較保守的態度啊\n375524\t395914\t那這其實最後受害的還是學生啊因為老師就會變得我多做多錯嘛會有這種心理壓力嘛所以在制度上你要做改善好不好不然我是不是建議你跟老師聊一聊好不好去了解一下他們狀況然後在環境上的改變謝謝委員你會做嗎可以沒有問題那什麼時候要做\n397101\t421523\t隨時可以做隨時是什麼時候嘛每次我們在這邊好像都在跟你講了然後你講了你每次都說你建議的不錯八月底之前我下次再來問你問你跟老師們聊怎麼樣然後制度上怎麼改善第二個待遇啦因為剛剛舉軍人的例子嘛待遇啦像我其實碰到蠻多老師跟我反映導師費行政費這兩件事情導師費現在一個月三千塊對不對\n423069\t428981\t其實已經很久沒有調了啦還有另外一個是行政費行政費按照值級最低組長是4500塊\n431304\t459309\t這個部分是不是可以請教育部我覺得統一編預算來補助因為以前講到這個你們都會去扯說那是地方政府啊要負責啊裁員如何如何我覺得如果一體式全國一體適用的話其實可以由教育部來編預算來做補助因為這已經第一個很久沒有條了而且剛剛我有聽到其他委員講那個行政大逃亡我也很關心這個議題行政大逃亡很多行政職不願意兼行政就是覺得兼的好像也沒有\n460336\t480209\t付出非常多可是能夠得到的收穫甚至我講的也不見得一定是錢尊重也都沒有我覺得尊重也都沒有所以這導師費行政費這兩個可不可以八月底以後我也來跟你請教一下能不能也訂定一個你覺得合理的因為你很久沒有很久沒有調了嗎可以嗎\n482901\t508123\t我想說我們事實上也都一直有在規劃研議規劃那種8月底來問你那也跟人事總署也做了一些適度的一些懷疑謝謝部長 謝謝你有在規劃那我們要如果趕快規劃跟老師講啊大家才會更多誘因嘛得到尊重 然後待遇才會投入這個教學的環境嘛可以嗎好不好 盡快啦也是8月以後來問你啦還有再來問 跟你請教一個問題喔\n509344\t530966\t我有發現那個學我沒有一個教育部有一個學產基金嘛對吧是一個學產基金那在去年底的時候忽然間訂了一個修訂了那個保管的規則啊增訂說本基金為了增加收益可以購買政府公債國庫債上市公司股票跟其他短期票券不知道為什麼會做這樣的改變\n533390\t561417\t我想我們這一個學產基金因為當然希望說如果它能夠透過這一個好的一個投資一個健康的一個投資能夠增加一些經費純粹是為了增加收益是不是這個收益事實上是有一定的一個比例是反映在支持許多這個弱勢學生或者許多的獎助學金或者等等的一些補助當然這個基金如果可以有獲利然後可以反映我們都支持\n561957\t573608\t是忽然做出這樣的因為這個基金就有了解是三百多年三百多年歷史耶這從清朝時代就有了委員會裡面他們對教育部的一個建議那我跟您請教一下因為我\n575666\t604846\t我有兩個建議啦第一個學衍基金說要去投資上智慧公司或公債什麼但是他並沒有揭露他到底要他到底是投資哪些項目我覺得事實應該要揭露啦因為這個基金其實蠻重要他是早期很多先人把房產捐出來然後成立一個基金然後給親台的學生然後弱勢家庭讓他們可以支持他們的教育所以這個基金非常重要我覺得應該也是要受到一定的監督所以第一個你們如果未來投資什麼\n605626\t624329\t希望可以比照像勞動基金啊什麼來做一個適當揭露是我們每年都會在八月八月底之前會公佈因為它以前都是不動產是那不動產因為它的價值比較沒有那麼感謝委員提醒啦我想所有的投資一定是要健康合法對這一個有序的這第一個第二個是\n625663\t651261\t因為大家知道現在關稅的問題所以賴總統在五月份他的就職一週年他說台灣可能會成立主權基金那成立主權基金其實坦白講台灣成立主權基金的條件和中東那些國家不一樣因為中東那些國家是出口天然氣、石油、有外匯多賺的錢成立主權基金然後再做海外的投資所以投資的項目都是高風險、高報酬的\n652702\t677006\t那我們現在台灣我不知道要用什麼錢來成立主權基金是要舉債還是怎麼樣那如果你是舉債又去投資高風險高報酬的一些項目的話那當然風險大家那雖然承擔風險比例就高那我是為什麼這跟教育部有關呢因為我看到勞動部他是這樣講的他說如果政府有成立主權基金然後主權基金又要發行債券來籌措的話勞動基金是可以購買\n679967\t695674\t坦白說我是覺得這蠻奇怪因為勞動基金應該就是要保障勞工的權益啦那個基金應該是這樣請問一下我們這個學產基金我們規模300多億對不對每年收益8億嘛300多億嘛到時候學產基金會不會跟勞動不一樣就是說把這個錢去挹注到我們政府發行的主權基金裡面會嗎\n704892\t711454\t跟委員報告我們目前並沒有這樣一個規劃沒有規劃因為過去也從來沒有投資過所以你們去年底改變的做法啊所以才問你啊確實上個禮拜這個內部有在討論討論投資主權基金沒有有一點點錢可以用來在國內國內的這些\n726377\t745668\t上市貴公司能夠來看投資那初步呢我們其實有一些但是還沒有定案因為我總覺得你所有的投資一定要是有一個更專業的一些會議上來形成那當然內部也跟我們報告他們有一個其實也很\n746468\t774035\t平穩的一個想像就是國內的14家公股銀行然後找前5家3年內績效最好的就定存看怎麼樣用比定存的一個好的一個利率能夠希望能夠增加我想這個基本上到目前因為所有的委員會也等於投資的這個委員會也還沒有形成也內部僅此一再一個所以到時候會成立一個投資委員會\n774835\t796995\t我是建議而不是你一定要成立啊不然你找一些投資門外漢來這邊投資我們只是小額的一個投資沒有很小額喔300多億沒有沒有我們最多大概就是幾千萬拿幾千萬出來投而已啦是不是OK最好是這樣啦我們目前大概的規劃大概就是這樣而已所以我們並沒有這個大致項OK好好謝謝謝謝葉原\n","txt":"教育部長 主席謝謝好 有請教育部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長好今天有一份報告是在講教師人力要怎麼補足的問題確實現在這個問題是非常嚴重我們就看代理教師就好了這是媒體的報導然後是各縣市預估\n但也就是可能缺額的狀況像新北市預估大概有2672位桃園1642位台北1400位苗栗也有1177位情況應該是非常的嚴重\n那我想問一下部長我不知道你有沒有掌握這個狀況因為你只要稍微去跟學校了解一下你就知道以前是在招比如在招代理教師的時候一招二招大部分都是有教師證的去應徵嘛然後到三招之後可能可以開放沒有教師證的現在可能在\n這樣的情況可能是可能一招二招就沒有叫施政人都去應徵而且還可能都應徵不到所以這是其實是一個蠻嚴重的問題我覺得是一個蠻嚴重的問題一定要提出對策就像之前大家也在講國軍的邊線筆\n有很大的落差所以立法院就有通過一個幫國軍加薪的方案那現在國軍在招募人才方面就有比較順利 相對比較順利所以我覺得不能讓這個情況持續惡化下去好 代理教師這個你有特別了解要用什麼方式來解決嗎\n也跟委員報告事實上這樣以去年來講所有的學校以新北市我們看到了一些缺額我事實上是跟張局長是保持這個熱線的在聯繫那國教署也每個禮拜都跟這個教育局處都有在保持聯繫等於我們除了有這個平台能夠提供有一些老師想要擔任教學工作的\n以一個媒合的一個平台以外那麼地方縣市大概也通常會到八月底之前開學之前大概都會一次一次的去部長你沒有回答我的問題喔我現在是把現象跟你講問你要怎麼解決這是結構性的問題不是說你有跟哪一個縣市聯繫的問題你要去解決這個結構性問題就像我剛剛舉國軍的例子\n如果說是待遇的問題或其他問題我們要對症下藥讓這個環境可以變好我現在講的是結構性我不會講說你有跟我沒有說你跟那第一個因為我不知道部長這個我個人是認為這個問題嚴重但剛剛初步聽你的回答你並沒有直指問題核心來做回答我們確實在政策上從1111年國教署我們教育部就有訂了一個辦法\n111學年度開始我們就因為為什麼會有很多的老師的缺額代理代課老師現在各縣市開始大量的報這個正式的教師的缺額出來開始招考是因為我們在地方的一個獎補助裡面把教師的那個員額裡面的控留不能超過8%\n所以這也造成這幾年我們看到台灣各縣市大概就把名額開出來因為當然我們也可以理解少子化裡邊當然各縣市你這樣講你還是沒有講到問題的核心現在的問題是說代理叫做缺額是沒有人要來應徵不是說你開幾個元額出來的問題我覺得大家要面對問題今天也不是來責備你說這個教育的問題我覺得是要來處理的那環境要改善我這邊就直接講兩個建議\n第一個建議我先建議部長你自己去學校跟一些老師座談了解一下老師現在的教學環境是怎麼樣比如說像有一些老師動不動就被檢舉我覺得如果老師有問題站在家長 站在教育的立場\n當然是可以去檢舉譬如說有的老師可能情緒有問題啊或者是他也許真的是某方面如何如何檢舉你們會產生校事會議調查但現在是老師動不動就被檢舉而且那個檢舉是不太需要有人事實地務的一個主觀的評論就可以檢舉譬如說我覺得你今天部長講話特別的兇馬上就要成立校事會來調查\n我覺得部長看起來行為很乖張很囂張你就要被調查可是你可能沒有啊這個人的主觀意識啊一句話就可以把你送校士會議校士會議大概要好幾個月然後老師在這段時間遭受極大壓力所以現在橫河老師因為這樣的狀況就有的時候他們就會跟學弟妹講說我建議你就不要來當老師了\n所以你可以看台北市教育局啊在他們接受媒體訪問怎麼講他說現在也不是說什麼原額不原額的問題啊現在是有很多具備資格的人他都不想要投入這個產業啊所以第一個是你要想辦法我建議你啦我真的建議部長\n因為您之前也是國教出身的嘛只是後來去高教嘛那也許有脫離一段時間環境變化很大去跟老師座談一下真正實地去問他們為什麼你們現在覺得你們學弟妹不願意來然後你們覺得在這個工作上面是有哪些挫折\n真的去認真了解然後對證效果像我剛舉那個校事會議坦白說我就認為給他們很大的壓力了其實我們校事會議這個確實怎麼樣去落實讓他分流初步的審查分流而不要動不動全部都到校事會議裡邊那你要提出辦法來處理嘛因為現在我講的是現狀嘛現狀就是這樣啊那老師因為很怕無緣無故被檢舉所以什麼事情都採的比較保守的態度啊\n那這其實最後受害的還是學生啊因為老師就會變得我多做多錯嘛會有這種心理壓力嘛所以在制度上你要做改善好不好不然我是不是建議你跟老師聊一聊好不好去了解一下他們狀況然後在環境上的改變謝謝委員你會做嗎可以沒有問題那什麼時候要做\n隨時可以做隨時是什麼時候嘛每次我們在這邊好像都在跟你講了然後你講了你每次都說你建議的不錯八月底之前我下次再來問你問你跟老師們聊怎麼樣然後制度上怎麼改善第二個待遇啦因為剛剛舉軍人的例子嘛待遇啦像我其實碰到蠻多老師跟我反映導師費行政費這兩件事情導師費現在一個月三千塊對不對\n其實已經很久沒有調了啦還有另外一個是行政費行政費按照值級最低組長是4500塊\n這個部分是不是可以請教育部我覺得統一編預算來補助因為以前講到這個你們都會去扯說那是地方政府啊要負責啊裁員如何如何我覺得如果一體式全國一體適用的話其實可以由教育部來編預算來做補助因為這已經第一個很久沒有條了而且剛剛我有聽到其他委員講那個行政大逃亡我也很關心這個議題行政大逃亡很多行政職不願意兼行政就是覺得兼的好像也沒有\n付出非常多可是能夠得到的收穫甚至我講的也不見得一定是錢尊重也都沒有我覺得尊重也都沒有所以這導師費行政費這兩個可不可以八月底以後我也來跟你請教一下能不能也訂定一個你覺得合理的因為你很久沒有很久沒有調了嗎可以嗎\n我想說我們事實上也都一直有在規劃研議規劃那種8月底來問你那也跟人事總署也做了一些適度的一些懷疑謝謝部長 謝謝你有在規劃那我們要如果趕快規劃跟老師講啊大家才會更多誘因嘛得到尊重 然後待遇才會投入這個教學的環境嘛可以嗎好不好 盡快啦也是8月以後來問你啦還有再來問 跟你請教一個問題喔\n我有發現那個學我沒有一個教育部有一個學產基金嘛對吧是一個學產基金那在去年底的時候忽然間訂了一個修訂了那個保管的規則啊增訂說本基金為了增加收益可以購買政府公債國庫債上市公司股票跟其他短期票券不知道為什麼會做這樣的改變\n我想我們這一個學產基金因為當然希望說如果它能夠透過這一個好的一個投資一個健康的一個投資能夠增加一些經費純粹是為了增加收益是不是這個收益事實上是有一定的一個比例是反映在支持許多這個弱勢學生或者許多的獎助學金或者等等的一些補助當然這個基金如果可以有獲利然後可以反映我們都支持\n是忽然做出這樣的因為這個基金就有了解是三百多年三百多年歷史耶這從清朝時代就有了委員會裡面他們對教育部的一個建議那我跟您請教一下因為我\n我有兩個建議啦第一個學衍基金說要去投資上智慧公司或公債什麼但是他並沒有揭露他到底要他到底是投資哪些項目我覺得事實應該要揭露啦因為這個基金其實蠻重要他是早期很多先人把房產捐出來然後成立一個基金然後給親台的學生然後弱勢家庭讓他們可以支持他們的教育所以這個基金非常重要我覺得應該也是要受到一定的監督所以第一個你們如果未來投資什麼\n希望可以比照像勞動基金啊什麼來做一個適當揭露是我們每年都會在八月八月底之前會公佈因為它以前都是不動產是那不動產因為它的價值比較沒有那麼感謝委員提醒啦我想所有的投資一定是要健康合法對這一個有序的這第一個第二個是\n因為大家知道現在關稅的問題所以賴總統在五月份他的就職一週年他說台灣可能會成立主權基金那成立主權基金其實坦白講台灣成立主權基金的條件和中東那些國家不一樣因為中東那些國家是出口天然氣、石油、有外匯多賺的錢成立主權基金然後再做海外的投資所以投資的項目都是高風險、高報酬的\n那我們現在台灣我不知道要用什麼錢來成立主權基金是要舉債還是怎麼樣那如果你是舉債又去投資高風險高報酬的一些項目的話那當然風險大家那雖然承擔風險比例就高那我是為什麼這跟教育部有關呢因為我看到勞動部他是這樣講的他說如果政府有成立主權基金然後主權基金又要發行債券來籌措的話勞動基金是可以購買\n坦白說我是覺得這蠻奇怪因為勞動基金應該就是要保障勞工的權益啦那個基金應該是這樣請問一下我們這個學產基金我們規模300多億對不對每年收益8億嘛300多億嘛到時候學產基金會不會跟勞動不一樣就是說把這個錢去挹注到我們政府發行的主權基金裡面會嗎\n跟委員報告我們目前並沒有這樣一個規劃沒有規劃因為過去也從來沒有投資過所以你們去年底改變的做法啊所以才問你啊確實上個禮拜這個內部有在討論討論投資主權基金沒有有一點點錢可以用來在國內國內的這些\n上市貴公司能夠來看投資那初步呢我們其實有一些但是還沒有定案因為我總覺得你所有的投資一定要是有一個更專業的一些會議上來形成那當然內部也跟我們報告他們有一個其實也很\n平穩的一個想像就是國內的14家公股銀行然後找前5家3年內績效最好的就定存看怎麼樣用比定存的一個好的一個利率能夠希望能夠增加我想這個基本上到目前因為所有的委員會也等於投資的這個委員會也還沒有形成也內部僅此一再一個所以到時候會成立一個投資委員會\n我是建議而不是你一定要成立啊不然你找一些投資門外漢來這邊投資我們只是小額的一個投資沒有很小額喔300多億沒有沒有我們最多大概就是幾千萬拿幾千萬出來投而已啦是不是OK最好是這樣啦我們目前大概的規劃大概就是這樣而已所以我們並沒有這個大致項OK好好謝謝謝謝葉原\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.275 --> 00:13.798\n教育部長主席謝謝好有請教育部長備質詢謝謝委員好部長好今天有一份報告是在講教師人力要怎麼補足的問題確實現在這個問題是非常嚴重我們就看代理教師就好了這是媒體的報導然後是各縣市預估\n\n00:35.413 --> 00:41.718\n但也就是可能缺額的狀況像新北市預估大概有2672位桃園1642位台北1400位苗栗也有1177位情況應該是非常的嚴重\n\n00:50.626 --> 01:10.411\n那我想問一下部長我不知道你有沒有掌握這個狀況因為你只要稍微去跟學校了解一下你就知道以前是在招比如在招代理教師的時候一招二招大部分都是有教師證的去應徵嘛然後到三招之後可能可以開放沒有教師證的現在可能在\n\n01:11.611 --> 01:26.355\n這樣的情況可能是可能一招二招就沒有叫施政人都去應徵而且還可能都應徵不到所以這是其實是一個蠻嚴重的問題我覺得是一個蠻嚴重的問題一定要提出對策就像之前大家也在講國軍的邊線筆\n\n01:28.416 --> 01:47.058\n有很大的落差所以立法院就有通過一個幫國軍加薪的方案那現在國軍在招募人才方面就有比較順利相對比較順利所以我覺得不能讓這個情況持續惡化下去好代理教師這個你有特別了解要用什麼方式來解決嗎\n\n01:49.586 --> 02:15.265\n也跟委員報告事實上這樣以去年來講所有的學校以新北市我們看到了一些缺額我事實上是跟張局長是保持這個熱線的在聯繫那國教署也每個禮拜都跟這個教育局處都有在保持聯繫等於我們除了有這個平台能夠提供有一些老師想要擔任教學工作的\n\n02:15.985 --> 02:35.762\n以一個媒合的一個平台以外那麼地方縣市大概也通常會到八月底之前開學之前大概都會一次一次的去部長你沒有回答我的問題喔我現在是把現象跟你講問你要怎麼解決這是結構性的問題不是說你有跟哪一個縣市聯繫的問題你要去解決這個結構性問題就像我剛剛舉國軍的例子\n\n02:40.146 --> 03:07.180\n如果說是待遇的問題或其他問題我們要對症下藥讓這個環境可以變好我現在講的是結構性我不會講說你有跟我沒有說你跟那第一個因為我不知道部長這個我個人是認為這個問題嚴重但剛剛初步聽你的回答你並沒有直指問題核心來做回答我們確實在政策上從1111年國教署我們教育部就有訂了一個辦法\n\n03:08.981 --> 03:32.135\n111學年度開始我們就因為為什麼會有很多的老師的缺額代理代課老師現在各縣市開始大量的報這個正式的教師的缺額出來開始招考是因為我們在地方的一個獎補助裡面把教師的那個員額裡面的控留不能超過8%\n\n03:34.505 --> 04:02.817\n所以這也造成這幾年我們看到台灣各縣市大概就把名額開出來因為當然我們也可以理解少子化裡邊當然各縣市你這樣講你還是沒有講到問題的核心現在的問題是說代理叫做缺額是沒有人要來應徵不是說你開幾個元額出來的問題我覺得大家要面對問題今天也不是來責備你說這個教育的問題我覺得是要來處理的那環境要改善我這邊就直接講兩個建議\n\n04:04.378 --> 04:19.651\n第一個建議我先建議部長你自己去學校跟一些老師座談了解一下老師現在的教學環境是怎麼樣比如說像有一些老師動不動就被檢舉我覺得如果老師有問題站在家長站在教育的立場\n\n04:20.351 --> 04:43.698\n當然是可以去檢舉譬如說有的老師可能情緒有問題啊或者是他也許真的是某方面如何如何檢舉你們會產生校事會議調查但現在是老師動不動就被檢舉而且那個檢舉是不太需要有人事實地務的一個主觀的評論就可以檢舉譬如說我覺得你今天部長講話特別的兇馬上就要成立校事會來調查\n\n04:45.579 --> 05:08.442\n我覺得部長看起來行為很乖張很囂張你就要被調查可是你可能沒有啊這個人的主觀意識啊一句話就可以把你送校士會議校士會議大概要好幾個月然後老師在這段時間遭受極大壓力所以現在橫河老師因為這樣的狀況就有的時候他們就會跟學弟妹講說我建議你就不要來當老師了\n\n05:09.463 --> 05:27.146\n所以你可以看台北市教育局啊在他們接受媒體訪問怎麼講他說現在也不是說什麼原額不原額的問題啊現在是有很多具備資格的人他都不想要投入這個產業啊所以第一個是你要想辦法我建議你啦我真的建議部長\n\n05:28.067 --> 05:46.486\n因為您之前也是國教出身的嘛只是後來去高教嘛那也許有脫離一段時間環境變化很大去跟老師座談一下真正實地去問他們為什麼你們現在覺得你們學弟妹不願意來然後你們覺得在這個工作上面是有哪些挫折\n\n05:47.327 --> 06:13.823\n真的去認真了解然後對證效果像我剛舉那個校事會議坦白說我就認為給他們很大的壓力了其實我們校事會議這個確實怎麼樣去落實讓他分流初步的審查分流而不要動不動全部都到校事會議裡邊那你要提出辦法來處理嘛因為現在我講的是現狀嘛現狀就是這樣啊那老師因為很怕無緣無故被檢舉所以什麼事情都採的比較保守的態度啊\n\n06:15.524 --> 06:35.914\n那這其實最後受害的還是學生啊因為老師就會變得我多做多錯嘛會有這種心理壓力嘛所以在制度上你要做改善好不好不然我是不是建議你跟老師聊一聊好不好去了解一下他們狀況然後在環境上的改變謝謝委員你會做嗎可以沒有問題那什麼時候要做\n\n06:37.101 --> 07:01.523\n隨時可以做隨時是什麼時候嘛每次我們在這邊好像都在跟你講了然後你講了你每次都說你建議的不錯八月底之前我下次再來問你問你跟老師們聊怎麼樣然後制度上怎麼改善第二個待遇啦因為剛剛舉軍人的例子嘛待遇啦像我其實碰到蠻多老師跟我反映導師費行政費這兩件事情導師費現在一個月三千塊對不對\n\n07:03.069 --> 07:08.981\n其實已經很久沒有調了啦還有另外一個是行政費行政費按照值級最低組長是4500塊\n\n07:11.304 --> 07:39.309\n這個部分是不是可以請教育部我覺得統一編預算來補助因為以前講到這個你們都會去扯說那是地方政府啊要負責啊裁員如何如何我覺得如果一體式全國一體適用的話其實可以由教育部來編預算來做補助因為這已經第一個很久沒有條了而且剛剛我有聽到其他委員講那個行政大逃亡我也很關心這個議題行政大逃亡很多行政職不願意兼行政就是覺得兼的好像也沒有\n\n07:40.336 --> 08:00.209\n付出非常多可是能夠得到的收穫甚至我講的也不見得一定是錢尊重也都沒有我覺得尊重也都沒有所以這導師費行政費這兩個可不可以八月底以後我也來跟你請教一下能不能也訂定一個你覺得合理的因為你很久沒有很久沒有調了嗎可以嗎\n\n08:02.901 --> 08:28.123\n我想說我們事實上也都一直有在規劃研議規劃那種8月底來問你那也跟人事總署也做了一些適度的一些懷疑謝謝部長謝謝你有在規劃那我們要如果趕快規劃跟老師講啊大家才會更多誘因嘛得到尊重然後待遇才會投入這個教學的環境嘛可以嗎好不好盡快啦也是8月以後來問你啦還有再來問跟你請教一個問題喔\n\n08:29.344 --> 08:50.966\n我有發現那個學我沒有一個教育部有一個學產基金嘛對吧是一個學產基金那在去年底的時候忽然間訂了一個修訂了那個保管的規則啊增訂說本基金為了增加收益可以購買政府公債國庫債上市公司股票跟其他短期票券不知道為什麼會做這樣的改變\n\n08:53.390 --> 09:21.417\n我想我們這一個學產基金因為當然希望說如果它能夠透過這一個好的一個投資一個健康的一個投資能夠增加一些經費純粹是為了增加收益是不是這個收益事實上是有一定的一個比例是反映在支持許多這個弱勢學生或者許多的獎助學金或者等等的一些補助當然這個基金如果可以有獲利然後可以反映我們都支持\n\n09:21.957 --> 09:33.608\n是忽然做出這樣的因為這個基金就有了解是三百多年三百多年歷史耶這從清朝時代就有了委員會裡面他們對教育部的一個建議那我跟您請教一下因為我\n\n09:35.666 --> 10:04.846\n我有兩個建議啦第一個學衍基金說要去投資上智慧公司或公債什麼但是他並沒有揭露他到底要他到底是投資哪些項目我覺得事實應該要揭露啦因為這個基金其實蠻重要他是早期很多先人把房產捐出來然後成立一個基金然後給親台的學生然後弱勢家庭讓他們可以支持他們的教育所以這個基金非常重要我覺得應該也是要受到一定的監督所以第一個你們如果未來投資什麼\n\n10:05.626 --> 10:24.329\n希望可以比照像勞動基金啊什麼來做一個適當揭露是我們每年都會在八月八月底之前會公佈因為它以前都是不動產是那不動產因為它的價值比較沒有那麼感謝委員提醒啦我想所有的投資一定是要健康合法對這一個有序的這第一個第二個是\n\n10:25.663 --> 10:51.261\n因為大家知道現在關稅的問題所以賴總統在五月份他的就職一週年他說台灣可能會成立主權基金那成立主權基金其實坦白講台灣成立主權基金的條件和中東那些國家不一樣因為中東那些國家是出口天然氣、石油、有外匯多賺的錢成立主權基金然後再做海外的投資所以投資的項目都是高風險、高報酬的\n\n10:52.702 --> 11:17.006\n那我們現在台灣我不知道要用什麼錢來成立主權基金是要舉債還是怎麼樣那如果你是舉債又去投資高風險高報酬的一些項目的話那當然風險大家那雖然承擔風險比例就高那我是為什麼這跟教育部有關呢因為我看到勞動部他是這樣講的他說如果政府有成立主權基金然後主權基金又要發行債券來籌措的話勞動基金是可以購買\n\n11:19.967 --> 11:35.674\n坦白說我是覺得這蠻奇怪因為勞動基金應該就是要保障勞工的權益啦那個基金應該是這樣請問一下我們這個學產基金我們規模300多億對不對每年收益8億嘛300多億嘛到時候學產基金會不會跟勞動不一樣就是說把這個錢去挹注到我們政府發行的主權基金裡面會嗎\n\n11:44.892 --> 11:51.454\n跟委員報告我們目前並沒有這樣一個規劃沒有規劃因為過去也從來沒有投資過所以你們去年底改變的做法啊所以才問你啊確實上個禮拜這個內部有在討論討論投資主權基金沒有有一點點錢可以用來在國內國內的這些\n\n12:06.377 --> 12:25.668\n上市貴公司能夠來看投資那初步呢我們其實有一些但是還沒有定案因為我總覺得你所有的投資一定要是有一個更專業的一些會議上來形成那當然內部也跟我們報告他們有一個其實也很\n\n12:26.468 --> 12:54.035\n平穩的一個想像就是國內的14家公股銀行然後找前5家3年內績效最好的就定存看怎麼樣用比定存的一個好的一個利率能夠希望能夠增加我想這個基本上到目前因為所有的委員會也等於投資的這個委員會也還沒有形成也內部僅此一再一個所以到時候會成立一個投資委員會\n\n12:54.835 --> 13:16.995\n我是建議而不是你一定要成立啊不然你找一些投資門外漢來這邊投資我們只是小額的一個投資沒有很小額喔300多億沒有沒有我們最多大概就是幾千萬拿幾千萬出來投而已啦是不是OK最好是這樣啦我們目前大概的規劃大概就是這樣而已所以我們並沒有這個大致項OK好好謝謝謝謝葉原\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.275,"end":13.798,"text":"教育部長 主席謝謝好 有請教育部長備質詢 謝謝委員好部長好今天有一份報告是在講教師人力要怎麼補足的問題確實現在這個問題是非常嚴重我們就看代理教師就好了這是媒體的報導然後是各縣市預估"},{"start":35.413,"end":41.718,"text":"但也就是可能缺額的狀況像新北市預估大概有2672位桃園1642位台北1400位苗栗也有1177位情況應該是非常的嚴重"},{"start":50.626,"end":70.411,"text":"那我想問一下部長我不知道你有沒有掌握這個狀況因為你只要稍微去跟學校了解一下你就知道以前是在招比如在招代理教師的時候一招二招大部分都是有教師證的去應徵嘛然後到三招之後可能可以開放沒有教師證的現在可能在"},{"start":71.611,"end":86.355,"text":"這樣的情況可能是可能一招二招就沒有叫施政人都去應徵而且還可能都應徵不到所以這是其實是一個蠻嚴重的問題我覺得是一個蠻嚴重的問題一定要提出對策就像之前大家也在講國軍的邊線筆"},{"start":88.416,"end":107.058,"text":"有很大的落差所以立法院就有通過一個幫國軍加薪的方案那現在國軍在招募人才方面就有比較順利 相對比較順利所以我覺得不能讓這個情況持續惡化下去好 代理教師這個你有特別了解要用什麼方式來解決嗎"},{"start":109.586,"end":135.265,"text":"也跟委員報告事實上這樣以去年來講所有的學校以新北市我們看到了一些缺額我事實上是跟張局長是保持這個熱線的在聯繫那國教署也每個禮拜都跟這個教育局處都有在保持聯繫等於我們除了有這個平台能夠提供有一些老師想要擔任教學工作的"},{"start":135.985,"end":155.762,"text":"以一個媒合的一個平台以外那麼地方縣市大概也通常會到八月底之前開學之前大概都會一次一次的去部長你沒有回答我的問題喔我現在是把現象跟你講問你要怎麼解決這是結構性的問題不是說你有跟哪一個縣市聯繫的問題你要去解決這個結構性問題就像我剛剛舉國軍的例子"},{"start":160.146,"end":187.18,"text":"如果說是待遇的問題或其他問題我們要對症下藥讓這個環境可以變好我現在講的是結構性我不會講說你有跟我沒有說你跟那第一個因為我不知道部長這個我個人是認為這個問題嚴重但剛剛初步聽你的回答你並沒有直指問題核心來做回答我們確實在政策上從1111年國教署我們教育部就有訂了一個辦法"},{"start":188.981,"end":212.135,"text":"111學年度開始我們就因為為什麼會有很多的老師的缺額代理代課老師現在各縣市開始大量的報這個正式的教師的缺額出來開始招考是因為我們在地方的一個獎補助裡面把教師的那個員額裡面的控留不能超過8%"},{"start":214.505,"end":242.817,"text":"所以這也造成這幾年我們看到台灣各縣市大概就把名額開出來因為當然我們也可以理解少子化裡邊當然各縣市你這樣講你還是沒有講到問題的核心現在的問題是說代理叫做缺額是沒有人要來應徵不是說你開幾個元額出來的問題我覺得大家要面對問題今天也不是來責備你說這個教育的問題我覺得是要來處理的那環境要改善我這邊就直接講兩個建議"},{"start":244.378,"end":259.651,"text":"第一個建議我先建議部長你自己去學校跟一些老師座談了解一下老師現在的教學環境是怎麼樣比如說像有一些老師動不動就被檢舉我覺得如果老師有問題站在家長 站在教育的立場"},{"start":260.351,"end":283.698,"text":"當然是可以去檢舉譬如說有的老師可能情緒有問題啊或者是他也許真的是某方面如何如何檢舉你們會產生校事會議調查但現在是老師動不動就被檢舉而且那個檢舉是不太需要有人事實地務的一個主觀的評論就可以檢舉譬如說我覺得你今天部長講話特別的兇馬上就要成立校事會來調查"},{"start":285.579,"end":308.442,"text":"我覺得部長看起來行為很乖張很囂張你就要被調查可是你可能沒有啊這個人的主觀意識啊一句話就可以把你送校士會議校士會議大概要好幾個月然後老師在這段時間遭受極大壓力所以現在橫河老師因為這樣的狀況就有的時候他們就會跟學弟妹講說我建議你就不要來當老師了"},{"start":309.463,"end":327.146,"text":"所以你可以看台北市教育局啊在他們接受媒體訪問怎麼講他說現在也不是說什麼原額不原額的問題啊現在是有很多具備資格的人他都不想要投入這個產業啊所以第一個是你要想辦法我建議你啦我真的建議部長"},{"start":328.067,"end":346.486,"text":"因為您之前也是國教出身的嘛只是後來去高教嘛那也許有脫離一段時間環境變化很大去跟老師座談一下真正實地去問他們為什麼你們現在覺得你們學弟妹不願意來然後你們覺得在這個工作上面是有哪些挫折"},{"start":347.327,"end":373.823,"text":"真的去認真了解然後對證效果像我剛舉那個校事會議坦白說我就認為給他們很大的壓力了其實我們校事會議這個確實怎麼樣去落實讓他分流初步的審查分流而不要動不動全部都到校事會議裡邊那你要提出辦法來處理嘛因為現在我講的是現狀嘛現狀就是這樣啊那老師因為很怕無緣無故被檢舉所以什麼事情都採的比較保守的態度啊"},{"start":375.524,"end":395.914,"text":"那這其實最後受害的還是學生啊因為老師就會變得我多做多錯嘛會有這種心理壓力嘛所以在制度上你要做改善好不好不然我是不是建議你跟老師聊一聊好不好去了解一下他們狀況然後在環境上的改變謝謝委員你會做嗎可以沒有問題那什麼時候要做"},{"start":397.101,"end":421.523,"text":"隨時可以做隨時是什麼時候嘛每次我們在這邊好像都在跟你講了然後你講了你每次都說你建議的不錯八月底之前我下次再來問你問你跟老師們聊怎麼樣然後制度上怎麼改善第二個待遇啦因為剛剛舉軍人的例子嘛待遇啦像我其實碰到蠻多老師跟我反映導師費行政費這兩件事情導師費現在一個月三千塊對不對"},{"start":423.069,"end":428.981,"text":"其實已經很久沒有調了啦還有另外一個是行政費行政費按照值級最低組長是4500塊"},{"start":431.304,"end":459.309,"text":"這個部分是不是可以請教育部我覺得統一編預算來補助因為以前講到這個你們都會去扯說那是地方政府啊要負責啊裁員如何如何我覺得如果一體式全國一體適用的話其實可以由教育部來編預算來做補助因為這已經第一個很久沒有條了而且剛剛我有聽到其他委員講那個行政大逃亡我也很關心這個議題行政大逃亡很多行政職不願意兼行政就是覺得兼的好像也沒有"},{"start":460.336,"end":480.209,"text":"付出非常多可是能夠得到的收穫甚至我講的也不見得一定是錢尊重也都沒有我覺得尊重也都沒有所以這導師費行政費這兩個可不可以八月底以後我也來跟你請教一下能不能也訂定一個你覺得合理的因為你很久沒有很久沒有調了嗎可以嗎"},{"start":482.901,"end":508.123,"text":"我想說我們事實上也都一直有在規劃研議規劃那種8月底來問你那也跟人事總署也做了一些適度的一些懷疑謝謝部長 謝謝你有在規劃那我們要如果趕快規劃跟老師講啊大家才會更多誘因嘛得到尊重 然後待遇才會投入這個教學的環境嘛可以嗎好不好 盡快啦也是8月以後來問你啦還有再來問 跟你請教一個問題喔"},{"start":509.344,"end":530.966,"text":"我有發現那個學我沒有一個教育部有一個學產基金嘛對吧是一個學產基金那在去年底的時候忽然間訂了一個修訂了那個保管的規則啊增訂說本基金為了增加收益可以購買政府公債國庫債上市公司股票跟其他短期票券不知道為什麼會做這樣的改變"},{"start":533.39,"end":561.417,"text":"我想我們這一個學產基金因為當然希望說如果它能夠透過這一個好的一個投資一個健康的一個投資能夠增加一些經費純粹是為了增加收益是不是這個收益事實上是有一定的一個比例是反映在支持許多這個弱勢學生或者許多的獎助學金或者等等的一些補助當然這個基金如果可以有獲利然後可以反映我們都支持"},{"start":561.957,"end":573.608,"text":"是忽然做出這樣的因為這個基金就有了解是三百多年三百多年歷史耶這從清朝時代就有了委員會裡面他們對教育部的一個建議那我跟您請教一下因為我"},{"start":575.666,"end":604.846,"text":"我有兩個建議啦第一個學衍基金說要去投資上智慧公司或公債什麼但是他並沒有揭露他到底要他到底是投資哪些項目我覺得事實應該要揭露啦因為這個基金其實蠻重要他是早期很多先人把房產捐出來然後成立一個基金然後給親台的學生然後弱勢家庭讓他們可以支持他們的教育所以這個基金非常重要我覺得應該也是要受到一定的監督所以第一個你們如果未來投資什麼"},{"start":605.626,"end":624.329,"text":"希望可以比照像勞動基金啊什麼來做一個適當揭露是我們每年都會在八月八月底之前會公佈因為它以前都是不動產是那不動產因為它的價值比較沒有那麼感謝委員提醒啦我想所有的投資一定是要健康合法對這一個有序的這第一個第二個是"},{"start":625.663,"end":651.261,"text":"因為大家知道現在關稅的問題所以賴總統在五月份他的就職一週年他說台灣可能會成立主權基金那成立主權基金其實坦白講台灣成立主權基金的條件和中東那些國家不一樣因為中東那些國家是出口天然氣、石油、有外匯多賺的錢成立主權基金然後再做海外的投資所以投資的項目都是高風險、高報酬的"},{"start":652.702,"end":677.006,"text":"那我們現在台灣我不知道要用什麼錢來成立主權基金是要舉債還是怎麼樣那如果你是舉債又去投資高風險高報酬的一些項目的話那當然風險大家那雖然承擔風險比例就高那我是為什麼這跟教育部有關呢因為我看到勞動部他是這樣講的他說如果政府有成立主權基金然後主權基金又要發行債券來籌措的話勞動基金是可以購買"},{"start":679.967,"end":695.674,"text":"坦白說我是覺得這蠻奇怪因為勞動基金應該就是要保障勞工的權益啦那個基金應該是這樣請問一下我們這個學產基金我們規模300多億對不對每年收益8億嘛300多億嘛到時候學產基金會不會跟勞動不一樣就是說把這個錢去挹注到我們政府發行的主權基金裡面會嗎"},{"start":704.892,"end":711.454,"text":"跟委員報告我們目前並沒有這樣一個規劃沒有規劃因為過去也從來沒有投資過所以你們去年底改變的做法啊所以才問你啊確實上個禮拜這個內部有在討論討論投資主權基金沒有有一點點錢可以用來在國內國內的這些"},{"start":726.377,"end":745.668,"text":"上市貴公司能夠來看投資那初步呢我們其實有一些但是還沒有定案因為我總覺得你所有的投資一定要是有一個更專業的一些會議上來形成那當然內部也跟我們報告他們有一個其實也很"},{"start":746.468,"end":774.035,"text":"平穩的一個想像就是國內的14家公股銀行然後找前5家3年內績效最好的就定存看怎麼樣用比定存的一個好的一個利率能夠希望能夠增加我想這個基本上到目前因為所有的委員會也等於投資的這個委員會也還沒有形成也內部僅此一再一個所以到時候會成立一個投資委員會"},{"start":774.835,"end":796.995,"text":"我是建議而不是你一定要成立啊不然你找一些投資門外漢來這邊投資我們只是小額的一個投資沒有很小額喔300多億沒有沒有我們最多大概就是幾千萬拿幾千萬出來投而已啦是不是OK最好是這樣啦我們目前大概的規劃大概就是這樣而已所以我們並沒有這個大致項OK好好謝謝謝謝葉原"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":997,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（13時29分）請教育部長。主席，謝謝。"],["主席：有請教育部長備質詢，謝謝。"],["鄭部長英耀：委員好。"],["葉委員元之：部長好。今天你有一份報告是在講教師人力要怎麼補足的問題，確實現在這個問題是非常嚴重，我們就看代理教師好了，這是媒體的報導，各縣市預估代理教師可能缺額的狀況，像新北市預估大概有2,672位，桃園1,642位，臺北1,400位，苗栗也有1,177位，情況應該是非常嚴重，我不知道部長有沒有掌握這個狀況，因為你只要稍微去跟學校了解一下就知道，比如以前在招代理教師的時候，一招、二招大部分都是有教師證的人去應徵，三招之後可能可以開放給沒有教師證的人，但現在的情況，可能一招、二招都是沒有教師證的人去應徵，而且還可能都招聘不到人，這其實是一個蠻嚴重的問題，我覺得是蠻嚴重的問題，一定要提出對策。像之前大家也提到國軍編現比有很大落差，所以立法院就通過一個幫國軍加薪的方案，現在國軍在招募人才方面就相對比較順利，所以我覺得不能讓這個情況持續惡化下去，請問代理教師部分，你有特別了解要用什麼方式來解決嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，事實上以去年來講，像新北市我們有看到一些缺額，然後我們就是跟張局長保持熱線在聯繫，國教署也每個禮拜都跟教育局處保持聯繫，等於我們除了有這一個能夠提供一些想要擔任教學工作的老師一個媒合平臺以外，地方縣市大概通常會在8月底之前、開學之前都會一次一次的招聘……"],["葉委員元之：部長，你沒有回答我的問題，我現在是把現象跟你說明，然後問你要怎麼解決，這是結構性的問題，不是說你有跟哪一個縣市聯繫的問題，你要去解決結構性問題，就像我剛剛舉國軍的例子，如果是待遇或其他問題，我們要對症下藥，讓環境變好，我現在講的是結構性問題，不是講說你有跟……"],["鄭部長英耀：我同意委員所提的。"],["葉委員元之：對，我沒有說你跟……第一個，我個人認為這個問題很嚴重，但剛剛初步聽你的回答，你並沒有直指問題核心來回答……"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，確實在政策上，教育部從111年就訂有一個辦法……"],["葉委員元之：111年？我現在講的是……"],["鄭部長英耀：111學年度開始，我們就……為什麼會有很多代課、代理老師缺額？現在各縣市開始大量報正式教師缺額出來、開始招考，是因為我們在地方的獎補助方面，要求教師員額控留比率不能超過8%，這也造成這幾年臺灣各縣市政府就會把名額開出來，當然我們也可以理解因為少子化問題，當然各縣市……"],["葉委員元之：部長，你這樣講還是沒有講到問題的核心，現在的問題是代理教師缺額，是沒有人要來應徵，而不是說你開幾個員額出來的問題，我覺得大家要面對問題，今天我也不是來責備你，但我覺得教育的問題要處理、環境要改善。我這邊就直接講兩個建議，第一個建議，建議部長自己去學校跟老師座談，了解現在的教學環境是怎麼樣，比如有一些老師動不動就被檢舉，我覺得如果老師有問題，站在家長、站在教育的立場，當然可以檢舉，比如有的老師可能情緒有問題，或者他也許真的某方面如何如何，一旦檢舉，你們就會召開校事會議調查，但現在是老師動不動就被檢舉，而且那個檢舉是不太需要有人事時地物，一個主觀的評論就可以檢舉，比如我覺得部長今天講話特別兇，馬上就要成立校事會議調查；我覺得部長看起來行為很乖張、很囂張，你就要被調查，可是你可能沒有，這個是個人的主觀意識，一句話就可以把你送校事會議，校事會議大概要延續好幾個月，老師在這段時間就會遭受極大壓力，所以現在很多老師因為這樣的狀況，就會建議學弟妹們不要來當老師，你可以看臺北市教育局在接受媒體訪問時是怎麼講的？他說現在也不是什麼員額不員額的問題，現在是很多具備資格的人都不想投入這個產業。所以第一個，你要想辦法，我真的建議部長，因為你之前也是國教出身，只是後來轉去高教，也許已經脫離一段時間，環境變化很大，但是去跟老師座談一下，真正實地去問他們為什麼現在的學弟妹們都不願意來，然後問他們覺得在這個工作上有哪些挫折等等，真的去認真了解，然後對症下藥，像我剛剛舉的那個校事會議，坦白說，我就認為給他們很大的壓力……"],["鄭部長英耀：確實我們校事會議要怎麼落實，讓它初步的審查能夠分流，不要動不動全部都到校事會議，我想……"],["葉委員元之：那你要提出辦法解決，因為我講的是現狀，現狀就是這樣，老師因為很怕無緣無故被檢舉，所以什麼事情都採取比較保守的態度，最後受害的其實還是學生，因為老師就覺得多做多錯，會有這樣的心理壓力，所以制度上你要改善，好不好？部長，我建議你真的要跟老師聊一聊，了解他們的狀況，然後在環境上有所改變。"],["鄭部長英耀：好的，謝謝委員的提醒。"],["葉委員元之：你會做嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以，沒有問題。"],["葉委員元之：那什麼時候要做？"],["鄭部長英耀：我隨時可以做。"],["葉委員元之：隨時是什麼時候嘛？好像每次我們在這邊跟你講了，然後你每次都說建議不錯，之後……"],["鄭部長英耀：8月底之前。"],["葉委員元之：8月底之前？好，那我下次再問你，好不好？"],["鄭部長英耀：可以。"],["葉委員元之：問你跟老師們聊得怎麼樣，制度上怎麼改善？"],["鄭部長英耀：OK。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，待遇問題。剛剛也舉了軍人的例子，其實我碰到滿多老師跟我反映導師費、行政費這兩件事情，導師費現在一個月3,000塊，對不對？其實已經很久沒有調整了，另外一個是行政費，行政費按照職級，最低的組長是4,500塊，這個部分是不是可以請教育部統一編列預算來補助？以前講到這個部分，你們都會扯說那是地方政府要負責、財源如何如何，我覺得如果全國一體適用，就可以由教育部編預算補助，因為這已經很久沒有調整，而且剛剛我也聽到其他委員提到所謂的行政大逃亡，我也很關心這個議題，很多老師不願意兼行政職，就是覺得兼任要付出非常多，可是能夠得到的收穫，我講的也不見得一定是錢，有些可能連尊重都沒有，所以導師費、行政費這兩個部分，8月底後我也一併跟你請教，能不能訂定一個你覺得合理的費用？因為也很久沒有調了，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：事實上這部分一直都有在規劃、研議……"],["葉委員元之：規劃？那我們8月底再來問你？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟人事總處也做了一些適度的反映。"],["葉委員元之：謝謝部長，謝謝你有在規劃，那要趕快規劃，要跟老師講，這樣才會有更多誘因；得到尊重，然後也有待遇，他們才會投入這個教學環境，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員。"],["葉委員元之：好不好？儘快啦！也是8月以後再請問你。還有再跟你請教一個問題，就是教育部有一個學產基金，對吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["葉委員元之：學產基金在去年底的時候，忽然修訂了保管規則，增訂該基金為了增加收益，可以購買政府公債、國庫券、上市公司股票跟其他短期票券，請問部長，為什麼會做這樣的改變？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們這個學產基金，當然是希望透過好的投資、健康的投資，能夠增加一些經費……"],["葉委員元之：純粹是為了增加收益，是不是？"],["鄭部長英耀：這個收益事實上是有一定比例反映在支持許多弱勢學生，或者許多獎助學金等等一些……"],["葉委員元之：當然啊！這個基金如果有獲利，當然可以反映在支持弱勢的部分，這些我們都支持，只是忽然做出這樣的決定，因為據我了解，這個基金已經有三百多年歷史，是從清朝時代就有了。"],["鄭部長英耀：是委員會對教育部的建議啦！"],["葉委員元之：好，這樣我有兩點建議，第一，學產基金要投資上市櫃公司或公債什麼的，但並沒有揭露它到底投資哪些項目，我覺得應該適時揭露，因為這個基金蠻重要的，它是早期很多先人把房產捐出來所成立的基金，然後支持清寒學生、弱勢家庭學生的教育，所以這個基金非常重要，我覺得應該要有一定的監督，所以第一個，未來如果投資什麼，希望可以比照勞動基金等，做一個適當揭露。"],["鄭部長英耀：我們每年都會在8月底之前公布。"],["葉委員元之：因為以前都是不動產，不動產的價值比較沒有那麼……"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員提醒，我想所有的投資一定都是要健康、合法、有序的。"],["葉委員元之：對，這第一個。第二個，大家知道因為關稅問題，所以賴總統在5月份就職一週年時提到，臺灣可能會成立主權基金。坦白講，臺灣成立主權基金的條件和中東那些國家不一樣，因為中東那些國家是出口天然氣、石油，有外匯，多賺的錢就成立主權基金，然後再做海外的投資，所以投資的項目都是高風險、高報酬的。現在我就不知道臺灣要用什麼錢來成立主權基金了，是要舉債還是怎麼樣？如果你是舉債去投資高風險、高報酬的一些項目的話，納稅人承擔的風險比例就高，這個為什麼跟教育部有關呢？因為我看到勞動部是這樣講的，它說如果政府有成立主權基金，主權基金又要以發行債券來籌措的話，勞動基金是可以購買的，但坦白說我是覺得這個還滿奇怪的，因為勞動基金應該就是要保障勞工的權益，那個基金應該是這樣。請問一下，學產基金的規模有三百多億，對不對？每年的收益是8億，總共是三百多億嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：有三百三十多億。"],["葉委員元之：到時候學產基金會不會跟勞動部一樣，就是把這個錢挹注到政府發行的主權基金裡面，會嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，我們目前並沒有這樣一個規劃。"],["葉委員元之：沒有規劃？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為過去也從來沒有投資過，所以我們內部……"],["葉委員元之：你們去年底改變了作法，所以才要問你啊！"],["鄭部長英耀：對，但上個禮拜內部確實有在討論。"],["葉委員元之：是討論投資主權基金嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，有一點點錢可以用來投資國內的這些上市櫃公司，初步……我們其實是有一些，但是也還沒有定案，因為我總覺得所有的投資一定要在更專業的一些會議上形成。當然也要跟委員報告，他們其實也有一個很平穩的想像，就是國內14家的公股銀行，然後找前5家3年內績效最好的就定存……看怎麼樣得到比定存還要好的利率，希望能夠增加，我想這個基本上到目前，因為所有的委員會……等於投資的這個委員會也還沒有形成，內部也僅止於在討論當中。"],["葉委員元之：所以你到時候會成立一個投資委員會？"],["鄭部長英耀：我是建議而不是只是……"],["葉委員元之：你一定要成立呀！不然你找一些投資門外漢來這邊投資？"],["鄭部長英耀：因為目前是考慮到我們只是小額的投資……"],["葉委員元之：沒有很小額喔！有三百多億。"],["鄭部長英耀：沒有，我們最多大概就是幾千萬，或者……"],["葉委員元之：拿幾千萬出來投而已，是不是？OK，最好是這樣啦！"],["鄭部長英耀：我們目前的規劃大概就是這樣而已，並沒有大志向。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員質詢，官員請回座。","接下來有請黃國昌委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":82,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-22-18","speakers":["葛如鈞","柯志恩","劉書彬","萬美玲","陳秀寳","張雅琳","林宜瑾","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","吳沛憶","郭昱晴","范雲","李坤城","黃捷","羅廷瑋","廖先翔","陳培瑜","葉元之","黃國昌","高金素梅","徐欣瑩"],"page_start":3,"meetingDate":["2025-08-07"],"gazette_id":"1147202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147202_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期教育及文化委員會第18次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請教育部部長列席就「全國中小學教師人力不足現況與具體因應對策」進行專題報告並備\n質詢；二、邀請教育部部長、國家科學及技術委員會、衛生福利部列席就「如何強化研究計畫之\n人體研究倫理把關機制，以保障人權，捍衛科研價值，並避免類似台師大女足抽血違反研究倫理\n之案件再次發生」進行專題報告，並備質詢；三、邀請教育部部長、行政院人事行政總處及行政\n院主計總處列席就「9月9日運動部成立籌備情形與後續推動規劃」進行專題報告並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147202_00002"}}}