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{\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 788.376, \"end\": 788.876, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 788.876, \"end\": 789.016, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 789.016, \"end\": 789.136, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 789.136, \"end\": 789.456, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 789.456, \"end\": 790.356, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 790.356, \"end\": 790.556, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 790.556, \"end\": 790.737, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 790.737, \"end\": 790.897, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 790.897, \"end\": 791.017, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 791.017, \"end\": 791.037, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}]}, {\"start\": 791.817, \"end\": 807.51, \"text\": \"因為未來還會有類似的災難過去我們看到921的地震莫拉克風災它在災民的安置部分都處理得蠻好的但這一次的好像就是放牛吃草就是沒有比較好的一個措施一個好的可以安置的地點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 791.817, \"end\": 792.017, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 792.017, \"end\": 792.618, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 792.618, \"end\": 792.958, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"類\"}, {\"word\": \"似\", \"start\": 792.958, \"end\": 793.098, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 793.098, \"end\": 793.799, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 793.799, \"end\": 793.959, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 793.959, \"end\": 794.059, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 794.059, \"end\": 794.199, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 794.199, \"end\": 794.859, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, 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\"我希望這一點可以檢討因為時間有限了這個部分你們就回去檢討最後我要講的是不要讓這一次的颱風風災過後造成第二次環境的災難我們可以看到在這一次的災損裡面光電板有11.4萬片石棉瓦有1.56萬噸\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 808.05, \"end\": 808.17, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 808.17, \"end\": 808.29, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 808.29, \"end\": 808.55, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 808.55, \"end\": 808.89, \"score\": 0.686}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 808.89, \"end\": 809.09, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 809.09, \"end\": 810.011, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 810.011, \"end\": 810.531, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 810.531, \"end\": 810.751, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 810.751, \"end\": 810.951, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 810.951, \"end\": 811.611, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, 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{\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 814.692, \"end\": 814.852, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 814.852, \"end\": 815.112, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 815.112, \"end\": 815.773, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 815.773, \"end\": 815.893, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 815.893, \"end\": 816.413, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"颱\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 816.413, \"end\": 817.293, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 817.293, \"end\": 817.513, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 817.513, \"end\": 817.733, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 817.733, \"end\": 817.913, \"score\": 0.809}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 817.913, \"end\": 818.133, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 818.133, \"end\": 818.614, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"環\"}, {\"word\": \"境\", \"start\": 818.614, \"end\": 818.854, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 818.854, \"end\": 820.034, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"難\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 820.034, \"end\": 820.234, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 820.234, \"end\": 820.394, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 820.394, \"end\": 820.414, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 820.414, \"end\": 820.614, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 820.614, \"end\": 820.774, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 820.774, \"end\": 820.934, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 820.934, \"end\": 821.194, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 821.194, \"end\": 821.435, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 821.435, \"end\": 822.595, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"損\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 822.595, \"end\": 823.015, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 823.015, \"end\": 823.475, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"板\", \"start\": 823.475, \"end\": 823.715, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 823.715, \"end\": 824.836, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"片\", \"start\": 824.836, \"end\": 825.496, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"石\", \"start\": 825.496, \"end\": 825.716, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"棉\", \"start\": 825.716, \"end\": 825.916, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"瓦\", \"start\": 825.916, \"end\": 826.136, \"score\": 0.806}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 826.136, \"end\": 826.156, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"萬\"}, {\"word\": \"噸\"}]}, {\"start\": 828.817, \"end\": 847.044, \"text\": \"我要問的是現在清楚的進度那之前環境部說光電板都沒有問題結果現在堆置的光電板有流出紅色的油污我們問一下來那個內政部長可以先回去我們請環境部長這個紅色的油污是什麼院長你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎\", 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\"start\": 917.927, \"end\": 918.027, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 918.027, \"end\": 918.047, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 918.447, \"end\": 918.889, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 918.889, \"end\": 919.19, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 919.19, \"end\": 919.431, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 919.431, \"end\": 919.532, \"score\": 0.801}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 919.532, \"end\": 920.054, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 920.054, \"end\": 920.877, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 920.877, \"end\": 922.324, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 922.324, \"end\": 922.484, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 922.484, \"end\": 922.605, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"鳴\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 922.605, \"end\": 922.625, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,292 --> 00:00:04,656\n謝謝院長我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選黃委員好\n\n2\n00:00:15,819 --> 00:00:40,130\n院長好院長這個救災工作你也辛苦了大家都辛苦我也辛苦但是我看到其實有一群很辛苦的是更站在第一線救災的人員鄉鎮公所裡面的人員第一個我先幫他們發聲也請院長在這個救災告一段落之後一定要給第一線就是救災的不免不休救災這些人員給予必要的嘉獎跟獎勵\n\n3\n00:00:41,391 --> 00:01:11,231\n所以我到嘉義縣的時候有的工作人員已經講到哭出來了就是那個工作人員完全沒有辦法回家然後是先生帶著小孩跑到公所來找他就是好幾天為了救災都沒有辦法回家我覺得這種真的在第一線最辛苦的人員或許院長去勘災的時候沒有看到但是這是真實在發生的我請你務必要關注到他們的身心的健康跟安全而且給予必要的獎勵這個可以嗎\n\n4\n00:01:12,252 --> 00:01:20,220\n寬道村里長我都跟他們說謝謝你不僅照顧自己照顧你的里民照顧你的村民要遭受很多的任勞任怨他們真的是辛苦\n\n5\n00:01:21,461 --> 00:01:46,662\n接下來我們要來檢討的就是這次整個的災後的救災跟重建工作的確有讓人民不滿意的地方所以民調上面也顯示出來了現在包括雲嘉南的民眾是不滿意度都高於滿意度所以第一個我們應該要檢討的是為什麼這個前進指揮所設置的速度這麼的慢事實上按照災防法第13條第二項\n\n6\n00:01:47,563 --> 00:02:06,550\n就是中央災害應變中心可以是災情的情況或者是需要你可以在地方的應變中心或適當地點成立前進的協調所很重要的是要整合救災資源而且要協助地方政府執行救災的事宜\n\n7\n00:02:07,310 --> 00:02:25,356\n這件事情在災防法第二項講得非常的清楚但是這一次我要就教院長為什麼其實成立的時間是這麼的緩慢7月6號的風災到7月30號後來才成立了所謂的前進指揮所而且你們界定在是復原\n\n8\n00:02:26,016 --> 00:02:46,807\n但是前面的救災期間真的是非常的需要而沒有設置我要問的是你們中央災害應變中心在開會討論的時候有沒有人去review這個第13條第二項或者是主動提出來說我們是不是應該要設置前進指揮所有沒有去討論到這個議題如果有我覺得不會這麼的慢\n\n9\n00:02:47,627 --> 00:03:07,912\n我去參加的中央應變中心的工作會議以及所有的資料當中當初確實沒有討論到要不要何時成立因為中央應變中心跟地方政府的應變中心都做很充分的這個必要的一個對口而且隨時溝通中央也負擔起調度支援整個工作從7月6號颱風之後\n\n10\n00:03:10,432 --> 00:03:37,935\n狀況是一直存在但是他並不是繼續在發生但是這個院長你必須承認一點你自己上午的報告有說有三不足整合的能力不足這個也是這次我看到中央最該發揮的是跨部會中還有中央跟地方的整合協調能力但是在這次的風災我看不到第一時間有一個人是站出來在這樣的位置上面積極去協調負責的\n\n11\n00:03:39,036 --> 00:03:55,753\n就像你7月30號之後你才指定了這個陳金德政務委員他擔任這個角色但是在7月30號之前坦白講我沒有看到這個人這個人好像也不是內政部部長照這樣來講內政部部長是災防法的主管機關\n\n12\n00:03:57,275 --> 00:04:14,358\n應該是他擔負一個非常重要的角色在過去的救災的過程當中但是在這一次我們也沒有看到內政部部長的角色然後各部會是各行其事農業部只管他的農損那經濟部就是管台電的電力就是大家是在各做各的\n\n13\n00:04:14,798 --> 00:04:31,170\n所以我覺得缺乏了一條邊的指揮跟這一個靈魂人物讓你所有的救災工作其實就是慢了下來所以民眾的抱怨才會這麼的多我認為是真的應該要徹底的檢討我具體的建議這個院長未來\n\n14\n00:04:33,792 --> 00:05:00,666\n我們還會有風災我們可能會有其他型態的災害我認為在中央災害應變中心你們都必須把這個要不要設前進指揮所列為你們重要的討論事項跟議案在災害一開始的時候就應該有這個議案而且大家應該要去問地方政府的意見問各部會的意見我覺得多了這樣的一個整合中心所有救災的效率\n\n15\n00:05:01,266 --> 00:05:13,046\n都會加速很多就像你自己早上在回答的現在設了前進指揮所讓曾經的政委來擔任這個角色之後是不是比之前沒有這樣的角色的時候是更快的\n\n16\n00:05:13,430 --> 00:05:40,405\n是我們現在必須做這樣的檢討但是颱風的中央應變中心的指揮官就是內政部長水災的中央那有在指揮嗎這次我看起來就沒有在指揮啊他都主持了16次的工作會議他有去跨部會的整個大家尋求嗎那為什麼給大家反應就是抱怨然後覺得速度慢然後沒有效率嗎我說分兩段風災是內政部當指揮官水災是經濟部當指揮官\n\n17\n00:05:42,046 --> 00:05:54,802\n風災之後7月6號到28號之間狀況一直存在誰在當指揮官那個時候是內政部當指揮官但他沒有發揮功效都在跟地方做充分的溝通728之後突然間整個量大起來之後\n\n18\n00:05:58,166 --> 00:06:14,369\n除了經濟部當指揮官之外再請陳記者擔任前紀指揮長不是728之後整個量大起來剛剛前一位質詢的是台南的區域立委林軍憲委員他也講這一次是風災造成的損害是最大的728是有淹水沒有錯但是它水潰得也快\n\n19\n00:06:15,490 --> 00:06:29,689\n所以最大的災害到目前為止還是是風災所造成的那我就覺得前面的這個救災我們的速度其實是緩慢的我們必須做這樣的檢討所以一定要檢討讓內政部來答覆我們必須做這樣的檢討也跟委員報告好那個謝院長\n\n20\n00:06:31,471 --> 00:06:57,154\n跟委員報告從那個風災7月5號開始到風災結束之後內政部其實透過國土署透過相關的機構我們的人力已經直接介入包括部長直接調替代役的同仁那直接進入現場去協助相關的情理市長我要告訴你的就是能量是不足的而且沒有把各部會統合起來看起來內政部沒有辦法辦到所以院長我也直接建議你\n\n21\n00:06:57,774 --> 00:07:18,789\n未來其實你必須指定一位政委政委才可以跨部會去協調現在看起來如果比較大型的風災連內政部的量能都不足他不足以去交動其他部會的首長所以這個是我覺得從系統組織面應該要徹底檢討的下一個這個天然災害我們才有能力來因應這樣可以做到嗎\n\n22\n00:07:19,890 --> 00:07:35,343\n我認為需要往這個方向來做檢討謝謝院長接下來在救災的過程當中我認為不可以偏重偏愛哪個城市在這次救災當中我覺得很多的資源看起來給台南\n\n23\n00:07:36,244 --> 00:07:57,196\n無論是你設了前進指揮中心或者是所有的政策第一時間好像都是以台南為優先我認為這樣的情況應該要去改善這一次的颱風是從嘉義布袋登陸的所以嘉義的影響也是非常的重大我認為在救災的過程當中都一樣重要\n\n24\n00:07:57,876 --> 00:08:21,005\n不可以有偏廢因為包括你們去修繕加碼補助曾經的政務委員也都是進駐在台南然後剛剛你們提到的報告裡面你們協助去媒合的這些災後重建17區也都是以台南為主那我覺得嘉義有某種程度被忽略了我希望所有資源的比重都是一樣的這個可不可以做到\n\n25\n00:08:21,810 --> 00:08:49,816\n報告委員我們不會有這樣的疏忽啦因為7月5號我就到了彰化跟南投而且颱風之後我第一站去的是嘉義市是我沒有說你的部分了你有到嘉義但是總統的部分賴總統的部分我們真的看到他多次就是前往台南關心當然他擔任過台南市長我們可以理解但是我想中央政府的要員你們在給予資源的時候或關愛的眼神\n\n26\n00:08:50,276 --> 00:09:08,448\n就是我希望嘉義縣這次也重創我跟委員報告每一次在台南市政府的民治行政中心比較靠近嘉義開會的時候嘉義縣市的代表都有到場同時一起討論\n\n27\n00:09:09,429 --> 00:09:30,619\n那只是因為台南的建樹太多了我知道但是嘉義也受損不少但是慢一個禮拜而已馬上現在已經進入梅河我希望下一次就是同步沒有慢的問題所有的條件都一樣對不能有慢的問題應該要講究同步實施好不好不要慢一個禮拜的這個落差第三個我要討論的就是這一次大家一直在強調說應該要從寬來認定\n\n28\n00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:51,091\n我真的具體建議既然我們已經要設特別條例了這次災區只要有受損就應該要獲得補助這次我去南下勘災的時候的確有一些農民也好漁民也好他們的建物本身是沒有合法申請的\n\n29\n00:09:51,511 --> 00:10:05,087\n或者是他沒有門牌號碼的但是在這次風災通通都受損了他可能是他建的一個公寮他可能是他設的一個工具室或者是他在漁邊蓋的一個小屋就是他的發電設備那這一些呢都沒有門牌號碼\n\n30\n00:10:06,929 --> 00:10:35,991\n可能在政府的認定裡面它不在合法的土地上面但是我認為這個院長我希望這次所謂的重寬是通通都納入有損失就補助因為災民真的非常的辛苦我想你也到第一線去看他們真的是苦不堪言所以既然我們今天立法院也全力支持我們可以有個特別條例我認為重寬那就是有災損有受災就補助不要去認定它合法不合法這樣可以嗎\n\n31\n00:10:36,331 --> 00:10:56,090\n我們認為本來就是這樣就是有實際居住不管這個房子是有沒有使用執照是偽章只要有實際居住那工具屋的部分呢那沒有實際居住是一半那工具屋的部分呢就是我講他放置器具的部分呢這一些呢他有一些是公寮放置設備的可不可以\n\n32\n00:10:57,891 --> 00:11:11,083\n你們再回去研究好不好有的人是房子在那裡他沒有實際居住他可能住台北有些人他就是拿來設置放工具而已像漁民我們可以個案來看\n\n33\n00:11:15,126 --> 00:11:36,152\n全部去討論另外一點我想幫災民請求的就是這一次你的屋頂整個的維修以中低收入戶為主但是坦白講我必須講跟院長報告在嘉義縣沿海其實很多民眾他不見得是中低收入戶但他的生活其實也不好過而且有些年紀都很大了我親自看過\n\n34\n00:11:36,892 --> 00:12:00,944\n它的整個屋頂掀飛之後它現在就是真的非常的克難用這個帆布然後外面下大雨裡面又下小雨上個禮拜一嘉義又下了一場大雨我實地現場看到就是外面大雨裡面小雨然後底下還積水就那個生活條件非常的克難跟辛苦所以我認為這一次所謂的重寬不是只有政府認定的中低收入戶\n\n35\n00:12:01,724 --> 00:12:13,840\n其實可以給當地的縣府就是更大的一個權限如果他實際生活是需要的我認為我們政府有能力就是照顧我們的人民這個可不可以再去重寬放寬給予補助\n\n36\n00:12:15,970 --> 00:12:41,784\n除了低收入戶跟中低收入戶之外呢會放寬到關懷戶就包括特殊際遇的家庭以及脆弱家庭這個是經社工評定而且鄉鎮公所或是縣市政府那年紀很大的我覺得也需要不只是脆弱家庭好不好如果都是高齡者但他不是中低收入戶他已經沒有能力了基本上是會擴大關懷戶希望可以再繼續去幫忙\n\n37\n00:12:44,065 --> 00:13:11,037\n第四個我要講的就是災民安置沒有到位就是這一次其實很多他都靠投靠自己的親戚用自己很克難的在原來的老屋裡面躲一個房間是不會漏雨的繼續住但是過去在這種重大的災難當中政府有個責任是要協助災民安置的這一次地方政府他的量能跟資源都做得不夠到位中央也沒有給予補助我希望這一點應該要好好的去檢討\n\n38\n00:13:11,817 --> 00:13:27,510\n因為未來還會有類似的災難過去我們看到921的地震莫拉克風災它在災民的安置部分都處理得蠻好的但這一次的好像就是放牛吃草就是沒有比較好的一個措施一個好的可以安置的地點\n\n39\n00:13:28,050 --> 00:13:46,156\n我希望這一點可以檢討因為時間有限了這個部分你們就回去檢討最後我要講的是不要讓這一次的颱風風災過後造成第二次環境的災難我們可以看到在這一次的災損裡面光電板有11.4萬片石棉瓦有1.56萬噸\n\n40\n00:13:48,817 --> 00:14:07,044\n我要問的是現在清楚的進度那之前環境部說光電板都沒有問題結果現在堆置的光電板有流出紅色的油污我們問一下來那個內政部長可以先回去我們請環境部長這個紅色的油污是什麼院長你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎\n\n41\n00:14:08,526 --> 00:14:35,242\n現場看起來而且事後調查應該是生鏽報告委員有兩個因為我們還在採驗水質過幾天會出來一個是旁邊有生鏽的鐵板第二個可能是車子的油污車子的油污在那邊也有這一個都造成環境的災度的污染然後石棉瓦的問題更嚴重因為它是致癌物那這一個量這麼的大我就問請具體回答什麼時候要清理完畢1.56萬噸\n\n42\n00:14:37,083 --> 00:14:45,573\n包委員我們現在其實在包含台南跟嘉義都有快速的在處理當中那目前我們估計大概兩個月內可以全部清完從現在開始的兩個月內所以就是現在是八月\n\n43\n00:14:53,060 --> 00:15:18,047\n15號對應該在9月底之前9月底因為其實嘉義台南有很多無阻我們會來檢視這個進度因為當地的居民很焦慮我也在未還委員會我也認為這個對於環境的危害是大的所以拜託這個部長跟院長這一塊的這個重建的速度我們其實是要上緊發條因為不能讓一次的風災再造成環境的二次危害這個是我們不願意看到的可以嗎\n\n44\n00:15:18,447 --> 00:15:22,625\n好一定我們照時間來做謝謝好謝謝王一鳴委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1292\t4656\t謝謝院長 我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選黃委員好\n15819\t40130\t院長好 院長這個救災工作你也辛苦了大家都辛苦我也辛苦但是我看到其實有一群很辛苦的是更站在第一線救災的人員鄉鎮公所裡面的人員第一個我先幫他們發聲也請院長在這個救災告一段落之後一定要給第一線就是救災的不免不休救災這些人員給予必要的嘉獎跟獎勵\n41391\t71231\t所以我到嘉義縣的時候有的工作人員已經講到哭出來了就是那個工作人員完全沒有辦法回家然後是先生帶著小孩跑到公所來找他就是好幾天為了救災都沒有辦法回家我覺得這種真的在第一線最辛苦的人員或許院長去勘災的時候沒有看到但是這是真實在發生的我請你務必要關注到他們的身心的健康跟安全而且給予必要的獎勵這個可以嗎\n72252\t80220\t寬道村里長 我都跟他們說謝謝你不僅照顧自己 照顧你的里民 照顧你的村民要遭受很多的任勞任怨 他們真的是辛苦\n81461\t106662\t接下來我們要來檢討的就是這次整個的災後的救災跟重建工作的確有讓人民不滿意的地方所以民調上面也顯示出來了現在包括雲嘉南的民眾是不滿意度都高於滿意度所以第一個我們應該要檢討的是為什麼這個前進指揮所設置的速度這麼的慢事實上按照災防法第13條第二項\n107563\t126550\t就是中央災害應變中心可以是災情的情況或者是需要你可以在地方的應變中心或適當地點成立前進的協調所很重要的是要整合救災資源而且要協助地方政府執行救災的事宜\n127310\t145356\t這件事情在災防法第二項講得非常的清楚但是這一次我要就教院長為什麼其實成立的時間是這麼的緩慢7月6號的風災到7月30號後來才成立了所謂的前進指揮所而且你們界定在是復原\n146016\t166807\t但是前面的救災期間真的是非常的需要而沒有設置我要問的是你們中央災害應變中心在開會討論的時候有沒有人去review這個第13條第二項或者是主動提出來說我們是不是應該要設置前進指揮所有沒有去討論到這個議題如果有我覺得不會這麼的慢\n167627\t187912\t我去參加的中央應變中心的工作會議以及所有的資料當中當初確實沒有討論到要不要何時成立因為中央應變中心跟地方政府的應變中心都做很充分的這個必要的一個對口而且隨時溝通中央也負擔起調度支援整個工作從7月6號颱風之後\n190432\t217935\t狀況是一直存在但是他並不是繼續在發生但是這個院長你必須承認一點你自己上午的報告有說有三不足整合的能力不足這個也是這次我看到中央最該發揮的是跨部會中還有中央跟地方的整合協調能力但是在這次的風災我看不到第一時間有一個人是站出來在這樣的位置上面積極去協調負責的\n219036\t235753\t就像你7月30號之後你才指定了這個陳金德政務委員他擔任這個角色但是在7月30號之前坦白講我沒有看到這個人這個人好像也不是內政部部長照這樣來講內政部部長是災防法的主管機關\n237275\t254358\t應該是他擔負一個非常重要的角色在過去的救災的過程當中但是在這一次我們也沒有看到內政部部長的角色然後各部會是各行其事農業部只管他的農損那經濟部就是管台電的電力就是大家是在各做各的\n254798\t271170\t所以我覺得缺乏了一條邊的指揮跟這一個靈魂人物讓你所有的救災工作其實就是慢了下來所以民眾的抱怨才會這麼的多我認為是真的應該要徹底的檢討我具體的建議這個院長未來\n273792\t300666\t我們還會有風災我們可能會有其他型態的災害我認為在中央災害應變中心你們都必須把這個要不要設前進指揮所列為你們重要的討論事項跟議案在災害一開始的時候就應該有這個議案而且大家應該要去問地方政府的意見問各部會的意見我覺得多了這樣的一個整合中心所有救災的效率\n301266\t313046\t都會加速很多就像你自己早上在回答的現在設了前進指揮所讓曾經的政委來擔任這個角色之後是不是比之前沒有這樣的角色的時候是更快的\n313430\t340405\t是我們現在必須做這樣的檢討但是颱風的中央應變中心的指揮官就是內政部長水災的中央那有在指揮嗎這次我看起來就沒有在指揮啊他都主持了16次的工作會議他有去跨部會的整個大家尋求嗎那為什麼給大家反應就是抱怨然後覺得速度慢然後沒有效率嗎我說分兩段風災是內政部當指揮官水災是經濟部當指揮官\n342046\t354802\t風災之後7月6號到28號之間狀況一直存在誰在當指揮官那個時候是內政部當指揮官但他沒有發揮功效都在跟地方做充分的溝通728之後突然間整個量大起來之後\n358166\t374369\t除了經濟部當指揮官之外 再請陳記者擔任前紀指揮長不是728之後整個量大起來剛剛前一位質詢的是台南的區域立委林軍憲委員他也講這一次是風災造成的損害是最大的728是有淹水沒有錯 但是它水潰得也快\n375490\t389689\t所以最大的災害到目前為止還是是風災所造成的那我就覺得前面的這個救災我們的速度其實是緩慢的我們必須做這樣的檢討所以一定要檢討讓內政部來答覆我們必須做這樣的檢討也跟委員報告好那個 謝院長\n391471\t417154\t跟委員報告從那個風災7月5號開始到風災結束之後內政部其實透過國土署透過相關的機構我們的人力已經直接介入包括部長直接調替代役的同仁那直接進入現場去協助相關的情理市長我要告訴你的就是能量是不足的而且沒有把各部會統合起來看起來內政部沒有辦法辦到所以院長我也直接建議你\n417774\t438789\t未來其實你必須指定一位政委政委才可以跨部會去協調現在看起來如果比較大型的風災連內政部的量能都不足他不足以去交動其他部會的首長所以這個是我覺得從系統組織面應該要徹底檢討的下一個這個天然災害我們才有能力來因應這樣可以做到嗎\n439890\t455343\t我認為需要往這個方向來做檢討謝謝院長接下來在救災的過程當中我認為不可以偏重偏愛哪個城市在這次救災當中我覺得很多的資源看起來給台南\n456244\t477196\t無論是你設了前進指揮中心或者是所有的政策第一時間好像都是以台南為優先我認為這樣的情況應該要去改善這一次的颱風是從嘉義布袋登陸的所以嘉義的影響也是非常的重大我認為在救災的過程當中都一樣重要\n477876\t501005\t不可以有偏廢因為包括你們去修繕加碼補助曾經的政務委員也都是進駐在台南然後剛剛你們提到的報告裡面你們協助去媒合的這些災後重建17區也都是以台南為主那我覺得嘉義有某種程度被忽略了我希望所有資源的比重都是一樣的這個可不可以做到\n501810\t529816\t報告委員我們不會有這樣的疏忽啦因為7月5號我就到了彰化跟南投而且颱風之後我第一站去的是嘉義市是我沒有說你的部分了你有到嘉義但是總統的部分賴總統的部分我們真的看到他多次就是前往台南關心當然他擔任過台南市長我們可以理解但是我想中央政府的要員你們在給予資源的時候或關愛的眼神\n530276\t548448\t就是我希望嘉義縣這次也重創我跟委員報告每一次在台南市政府的民治行政中心比較靠近嘉義開會的時候嘉義縣市的代表都有到場同時一起討論\n549429\t570619\t那只是因為台南的建樹太多了我知道 但是嘉義也受損不少但是慢一個禮拜而已馬上現在已經進入梅河我希望下一次就是同步沒有慢的問題所有的條件都一樣對 不能有慢的問題應該要講究同步實施好不好不要慢一個禮拜的這個落差第三個我要討論的就是這一次大家一直在強調說應該要從寬來認定\n573720\t591091\t我真的具體建議既然我們已經要設特別條例了這次災區只要有受損就應該要獲得補助這次我去南下勘災的時候的確有一些農民也好漁民也好他們的建物本身是沒有合法申請的\n591511\t605087\t或者是他沒有門牌號碼的但是在這次風災通通都受損了他可能是他建的一個公寮他可能是他設的一個工具室或者是他在漁邊蓋的一個小屋就是他的發電設備那這一些呢都沒有門牌號碼\n606929\t635991\t可能在政府的認定裡面它不在合法的土地上面但是我認為這個院長我希望這次所謂的重寬是通通都納入有損失就補助因為災民真的非常的辛苦我想你也到第一線去看他們真的是苦不堪言所以既然我們今天立法院也全力支持我們可以有個特別條例我認為重寬那就是有災損有受災就補助不要去認定它合法不合法這樣可以嗎\n636331\t656090\t我們認為本來就是這樣就是有實際居住不管這個房子是有沒有使用執照是偽章只要有實際居住那工具屋的部分呢那沒有實際居住是一半那工具屋的部分呢就是我講他放置器具的部分呢這一些呢他有一些是公寮放置設備的可不可以\n657891\t671083\t你們再回去研究好不好有的人是房子在那裡他沒有實際居住他可能住台北有些人他就是拿來設置放工具而已像漁民我們可以個案來看\n675126\t696152\t全部去討論另外一點我想幫災民請求的就是這一次你的屋頂整個的維修以中低收入戶為主但是坦白講我必須講跟院長報告在嘉義縣沿海其實很多民眾他不見得是中低收入戶但他的生活其實也不好過而且有些年紀都很大了我親自看過\n696892\t720944\t它的整個屋頂掀飛之後它現在就是真的非常的克難用這個帆布然後外面下大雨裡面又下小雨上個禮拜一嘉義又下了一場大雨我實地現場看到就是外面大雨裡面小雨然後底下還積水就那個生活條件非常的克難跟辛苦所以我認為這一次所謂的重寬不是只有政府認定的中低收入戶\n721724\t733840\t其實可以給當地的縣府就是更大的一個權限如果他實際生活是需要的我認為我們政府有能力就是照顧我們的人民這個可不可以再去重寬放寬給予補助\n735970\t761784\t除了低收入戶跟中低收入戶之外呢會放寬到關懷戶就包括特殊際遇的家庭以及脆弱家庭這個是經社工評定而且鄉鎮公所或是縣市政府那年紀很大的我覺得也需要不只是脆弱家庭好不好如果都是高齡者但他不是中低收入戶他已經沒有能力了基本上是會擴大關懷戶希望可以再繼續去幫忙\n764065\t791037\t第四個我要講的就是災民安置沒有到位就是這一次其實很多他都靠投靠自己的親戚用自己很克難的在原來的老屋裡面躲一個房間是不會漏雨的繼續住但是過去在這種重大的災難當中政府有個責任是要協助災民安置的這一次地方政府他的量能跟資源都做得不夠到位中央也沒有給予補助我希望這一點應該要好好的去檢討\n791817\t807510\t因為未來還會有類似的災難過去我們看到921的地震莫拉克風災它在災民的安置部分都處理得蠻好的但這一次的好像就是放牛吃草就是沒有比較好的一個措施一個好的可以安置的地點\n808050\t826156\t我希望這一點可以檢討因為時間有限了這個部分你們就回去檢討最後我要講的是不要讓這一次的颱風風災過後造成第二次環境的災難我們可以看到在這一次的災損裡面光電板有11.4萬片石棉瓦有1.56萬噸\n828817\t847044\t我要問的是現在清楚的進度那之前環境部說光電板都沒有問題結果現在堆置的光電板有流出紅色的油污我們問一下來那個內政部長可以先回去我們請環境部長這個紅色的油污是什麼院長你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎\n848526\t875242\t現場看起來 而且事後調查 應該是生鏽報告委員 有兩個因為我們還在採驗水質 過幾天會出來一個是旁邊有生鏽的鐵板第二個可能是車子的油污車子的油污在那邊也有這一個都造成環境的災度的污染然後石棉瓦的問題更嚴重因為它是致癌物那這一個量這麼的大我就問 請具體回答什麼時候要清理完畢1.56萬噸\n877083\t885573\t包委員我們現在其實在包含台南跟嘉義都有快速的在處理當中那目前我們估計大概兩個月內可以全部清完從現在開始的兩個月內所以就是現在是八月\n893060\t918047\t15號對應該在9月底之前9月底因為其實嘉義台南有很多無阻我們會來檢視這個進度因為當地的居民很焦慮我也在未還委員會我也認為這個對於環境的危害是大的所以拜託這個部長跟院長這一塊的這個重建的速度我們其實是要上緊發條因為不能讓一次的風災再造成環境的二次危害這個是我們不願意看到的可以嗎\n918447\t922625\t好 一定我們照時間來做 謝謝好 謝謝王一鳴委員\n","txt":"謝謝院長 我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選黃委員好\n院長好 院長這個救災工作你也辛苦了大家都辛苦我也辛苦但是我看到其實有一群很辛苦的是更站在第一線救災的人員鄉鎮公所裡面的人員第一個我先幫他們發聲也請院長在這個救災告一段落之後一定要給第一線就是救災的不免不休救災這些人員給予必要的嘉獎跟獎勵\n所以我到嘉義縣的時候有的工作人員已經講到哭出來了就是那個工作人員完全沒有辦法回家然後是先生帶著小孩跑到公所來找他就是好幾天為了救災都沒有辦法回家我覺得這種真的在第一線最辛苦的人員或許院長去勘災的時候沒有看到但是這是真實在發生的我請你務必要關注到他們的身心的健康跟安全而且給予必要的獎勵這個可以嗎\n寬道村里長 我都跟他們說謝謝你不僅照顧自己 照顧你的里民 照顧你的村民要遭受很多的任勞任怨 他們真的是辛苦\n接下來我們要來檢討的就是這次整個的災後的救災跟重建工作的確有讓人民不滿意的地方所以民調上面也顯示出來了現在包括雲嘉南的民眾是不滿意度都高於滿意度所以第一個我們應該要檢討的是為什麼這個前進指揮所設置的速度這麼的慢事實上按照災防法第13條第二項\n就是中央災害應變中心可以是災情的情況或者是需要你可以在地方的應變中心或適當地點成立前進的協調所很重要的是要整合救災資源而且要協助地方政府執行救災的事宜\n這件事情在災防法第二項講得非常的清楚但是這一次我要就教院長為什麼其實成立的時間是這麼的緩慢7月6號的風災到7月30號後來才成立了所謂的前進指揮所而且你們界定在是復原\n但是前面的救災期間真的是非常的需要而沒有設置我要問的是你們中央災害應變中心在開會討論的時候有沒有人去review這個第13條第二項或者是主動提出來說我們是不是應該要設置前進指揮所有沒有去討論到這個議題如果有我覺得不會這麼的慢\n我去參加的中央應變中心的工作會議以及所有的資料當中當初確實沒有討論到要不要何時成立因為中央應變中心跟地方政府的應變中心都做很充分的這個必要的一個對口而且隨時溝通中央也負擔起調度支援整個工作從7月6號颱風之後\n狀況是一直存在但是他並不是繼續在發生但是這個院長你必須承認一點你自己上午的報告有說有三不足整合的能力不足這個也是這次我看到中央最該發揮的是跨部會中還有中央跟地方的整合協調能力但是在這次的風災我看不到第一時間有一個人是站出來在這樣的位置上面積極去協調負責的\n就像你7月30號之後你才指定了這個陳金德政務委員他擔任這個角色但是在7月30號之前坦白講我沒有看到這個人這個人好像也不是內政部部長照這樣來講內政部部長是災防法的主管機關\n應該是他擔負一個非常重要的角色在過去的救災的過程當中但是在這一次我們也沒有看到內政部部長的角色然後各部會是各行其事農業部只管他的農損那經濟部就是管台電的電力就是大家是在各做各的\n所以我覺得缺乏了一條邊的指揮跟這一個靈魂人物讓你所有的救災工作其實就是慢了下來所以民眾的抱怨才會這麼的多我認為是真的應該要徹底的檢討我具體的建議這個院長未來\n我們還會有風災我們可能會有其他型態的災害我認為在中央災害應變中心你們都必須把這個要不要設前進指揮所列為你們重要的討論事項跟議案在災害一開始的時候就應該有這個議案而且大家應該要去問地方政府的意見問各部會的意見我覺得多了這樣的一個整合中心所有救災的效率\n都會加速很多就像你自己早上在回答的現在設了前進指揮所讓曾經的政委來擔任這個角色之後是不是比之前沒有這樣的角色的時候是更快的\n是我們現在必須做這樣的檢討但是颱風的中央應變中心的指揮官就是內政部長水災的中央那有在指揮嗎這次我看起來就沒有在指揮啊他都主持了16次的工作會議他有去跨部會的整個大家尋求嗎那為什麼給大家反應就是抱怨然後覺得速度慢然後沒有效率嗎我說分兩段風災是內政部當指揮官水災是經濟部當指揮官\n風災之後7月6號到28號之間狀況一直存在誰在當指揮官那個時候是內政部當指揮官但他沒有發揮功效都在跟地方做充分的溝通728之後突然間整個量大起來之後\n除了經濟部當指揮官之外 再請陳記者擔任前紀指揮長不是728之後整個量大起來剛剛前一位質詢的是台南的區域立委林軍憲委員他也講這一次是風災造成的損害是最大的728是有淹水沒有錯 但是它水潰得也快\n所以最大的災害到目前為止還是是風災所造成的那我就覺得前面的這個救災我們的速度其實是緩慢的我們必須做這樣的檢討所以一定要檢討讓內政部來答覆我們必須做這樣的檢討也跟委員報告好那個 謝院長\n跟委員報告從那個風災7月5號開始到風災結束之後內政部其實透過國土署透過相關的機構我們的人力已經直接介入包括部長直接調替代役的同仁那直接進入現場去協助相關的情理市長我要告訴你的就是能量是不足的而且沒有把各部會統合起來看起來內政部沒有辦法辦到所以院長我也直接建議你\n未來其實你必須指定一位政委政委才可以跨部會去協調現在看起來如果比較大型的風災連內政部的量能都不足他不足以去交動其他部會的首長所以這個是我覺得從系統組織面應該要徹底檢討的下一個這個天然災害我們才有能力來因應這樣可以做到嗎\n我認為需要往這個方向來做檢討謝謝院長接下來在救災的過程當中我認為不可以偏重偏愛哪個城市在這次救災當中我覺得很多的資源看起來給台南\n無論是你設了前進指揮中心或者是所有的政策第一時間好像都是以台南為優先我認為這樣的情況應該要去改善這一次的颱風是從嘉義布袋登陸的所以嘉義的影響也是非常的重大我認為在救災的過程當中都一樣重要\n不可以有偏廢因為包括你們去修繕加碼補助曾經的政務委員也都是進駐在台南然後剛剛你們提到的報告裡面你們協助去媒合的這些災後重建17區也都是以台南為主那我覺得嘉義有某種程度被忽略了我希望所有資源的比重都是一樣的這個可不可以做到\n報告委員我們不會有這樣的疏忽啦因為7月5號我就到了彰化跟南投而且颱風之後我第一站去的是嘉義市是我沒有說你的部分了你有到嘉義但是總統的部分賴總統的部分我們真的看到他多次就是前往台南關心當然他擔任過台南市長我們可以理解但是我想中央政府的要員你們在給予資源的時候或關愛的眼神\n就是我希望嘉義縣這次也重創我跟委員報告每一次在台南市政府的民治行政中心比較靠近嘉義開會的時候嘉義縣市的代表都有到場同時一起討論\n那只是因為台南的建樹太多了我知道 但是嘉義也受損不少但是慢一個禮拜而已馬上現在已經進入梅河我希望下一次就是同步沒有慢的問題所有的條件都一樣對 不能有慢的問題應該要講究同步實施好不好不要慢一個禮拜的這個落差第三個我要討論的就是這一次大家一直在強調說應該要從寬來認定\n我真的具體建議既然我們已經要設特別條例了這次災區只要有受損就應該要獲得補助這次我去南下勘災的時候的確有一些農民也好漁民也好他們的建物本身是沒有合法申請的\n或者是他沒有門牌號碼的但是在這次風災通通都受損了他可能是他建的一個公寮他可能是他設的一個工具室或者是他在漁邊蓋的一個小屋就是他的發電設備那這一些呢都沒有門牌號碼\n可能在政府的認定裡面它不在合法的土地上面但是我認為這個院長我希望這次所謂的重寬是通通都納入有損失就補助因為災民真的非常的辛苦我想你也到第一線去看他們真的是苦不堪言所以既然我們今天立法院也全力支持我們可以有個特別條例我認為重寬那就是有災損有受災就補助不要去認定它合法不合法這樣可以嗎\n我們認為本來就是這樣就是有實際居住不管這個房子是有沒有使用執照是偽章只要有實際居住那工具屋的部分呢那沒有實際居住是一半那工具屋的部分呢就是我講他放置器具的部分呢這一些呢他有一些是公寮放置設備的可不可以\n你們再回去研究好不好有的人是房子在那裡他沒有實際居住他可能住台北有些人他就是拿來設置放工具而已像漁民我們可以個案來看\n全部去討論另外一點我想幫災民請求的就是這一次你的屋頂整個的維修以中低收入戶為主但是坦白講我必須講跟院長報告在嘉義縣沿海其實很多民眾他不見得是中低收入戶但他的生活其實也不好過而且有些年紀都很大了我親自看過\n它的整個屋頂掀飛之後它現在就是真的非常的克難用這個帆布然後外面下大雨裡面又下小雨上個禮拜一嘉義又下了一場大雨我實地現場看到就是外面大雨裡面小雨然後底下還積水就那個生活條件非常的克難跟辛苦所以我認為這一次所謂的重寬不是只有政府認定的中低收入戶\n其實可以給當地的縣府就是更大的一個權限如果他實際生活是需要的我認為我們政府有能力就是照顧我們的人民這個可不可以再去重寬放寬給予補助\n除了低收入戶跟中低收入戶之外呢會放寬到關懷戶就包括特殊際遇的家庭以及脆弱家庭這個是經社工評定而且鄉鎮公所或是縣市政府那年紀很大的我覺得也需要不只是脆弱家庭好不好如果都是高齡者但他不是中低收入戶他已經沒有能力了基本上是會擴大關懷戶希望可以再繼續去幫忙\n第四個我要講的就是災民安置沒有到位就是這一次其實很多他都靠投靠自己的親戚用自己很克難的在原來的老屋裡面躲一個房間是不會漏雨的繼續住但是過去在這種重大的災難當中政府有個責任是要協助災民安置的這一次地方政府他的量能跟資源都做得不夠到位中央也沒有給予補助我希望這一點應該要好好的去檢討\n因為未來還會有類似的災難過去我們看到921的地震莫拉克風災它在災民的安置部分都處理得蠻好的但這一次的好像就是放牛吃草就是沒有比較好的一個措施一個好的可以安置的地點\n我希望這一點可以檢討因為時間有限了這個部分你們就回去檢討最後我要講的是不要讓這一次的颱風風災過後造成第二次環境的災難我們可以看到在這一次的災損裡面光電板有11.4萬片石棉瓦有1.56萬噸\n我要問的是現在清楚的進度那之前環境部說光電板都沒有問題結果現在堆置的光電板有流出紅色的油污我們問一下來那個內政部長可以先回去我們請環境部長這個紅色的油污是什麼院長你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎\n現場看起來 而且事後調查 應該是生鏽報告委員 有兩個因為我們還在採驗水質 過幾天會出來一個是旁邊有生鏽的鐵板第二個可能是車子的油污車子的油污在那邊也有這一個都造成環境的災度的污染然後石棉瓦的問題更嚴重因為它是致癌物那這一個量這麼的大我就問 請具體回答什麼時候要清理完畢1.56萬噸\n包委員我們現在其實在包含台南跟嘉義都有快速的在處理當中那目前我們估計大概兩個月內可以全部清完從現在開始的兩個月內所以就是現在是八月\n15號對應該在9月底之前9月底因為其實嘉義台南有很多無阻我們會來檢視這個進度因為當地的居民很焦慮我也在未還委員會我也認為這個對於環境的危害是大的所以拜託這個部長跟院長這一塊的這個重建的速度我們其實是要上緊發條因為不能讓一次的風災再造成環境的二次危害這個是我們不願意看到的可以嗎\n好 一定我們照時間來做 謝謝好 謝謝王一鳴委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.292 --> 00:04.656\n謝謝院長我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選黃委員好\n\n00:15.819 --> 00:40.130\n院長好院長這個救災工作你也辛苦了大家都辛苦我也辛苦但是我看到其實有一群很辛苦的是更站在第一線救災的人員鄉鎮公所裡面的人員第一個我先幫他們發聲也請院長在這個救災告一段落之後一定要給第一線就是救災的不免不休救災這些人員給予必要的嘉獎跟獎勵\n\n00:41.391 --> 01:11.231\n所以我到嘉義縣的時候有的工作人員已經講到哭出來了就是那個工作人員完全沒有辦法回家然後是先生帶著小孩跑到公所來找他就是好幾天為了救災都沒有辦法回家我覺得這種真的在第一線最辛苦的人員或許院長去勘災的時候沒有看到但是這是真實在發生的我請你務必要關注到他們的身心的健康跟安全而且給予必要的獎勵這個可以嗎\n\n01:12.252 --> 01:20.220\n寬道村里長我都跟他們說謝謝你不僅照顧自己照顧你的里民照顧你的村民要遭受很多的任勞任怨他們真的是辛苦\n\n01:21.461 --> 01:46.662\n接下來我們要來檢討的就是這次整個的災後的救災跟重建工作的確有讓人民不滿意的地方所以民調上面也顯示出來了現在包括雲嘉南的民眾是不滿意度都高於滿意度所以第一個我們應該要檢討的是為什麼這個前進指揮所設置的速度這麼的慢事實上按照災防法第13條第二項\n\n01:47.563 --> 02:06.550\n就是中央災害應變中心可以是災情的情況或者是需要你可以在地方的應變中心或適當地點成立前進的協調所很重要的是要整合救災資源而且要協助地方政府執行救災的事宜\n\n02:07.310 --> 02:25.356\n這件事情在災防法第二項講得非常的清楚但是這一次我要就教院長為什麼其實成立的時間是這麼的緩慢7月6號的風災到7月30號後來才成立了所謂的前進指揮所而且你們界定在是復原\n\n02:26.016 --> 02:46.807\n但是前面的救災期間真的是非常的需要而沒有設置我要問的是你們中央災害應變中心在開會討論的時候有沒有人去review這個第13條第二項或者是主動提出來說我們是不是應該要設置前進指揮所有沒有去討論到這個議題如果有我覺得不會這麼的慢\n\n02:47.627 --> 03:07.912\n我去參加的中央應變中心的工作會議以及所有的資料當中當初確實沒有討論到要不要何時成立因為中央應變中心跟地方政府的應變中心都做很充分的這個必要的一個對口而且隨時溝通中央也負擔起調度支援整個工作從7月6號颱風之後\n\n03:10.432 --> 03:37.935\n狀況是一直存在但是他並不是繼續在發生但是這個院長你必須承認一點你自己上午的報告有說有三不足整合的能力不足這個也是這次我看到中央最該發揮的是跨部會中還有中央跟地方的整合協調能力但是在這次的風災我看不到第一時間有一個人是站出來在這樣的位置上面積極去協調負責的\n\n03:39.036 --> 03:55.753\n就像你7月30號之後你才指定了這個陳金德政務委員他擔任這個角色但是在7月30號之前坦白講我沒有看到這個人這個人好像也不是內政部部長照這樣來講內政部部長是災防法的主管機關\n\n03:57.275 --> 04:14.358\n應該是他擔負一個非常重要的角色在過去的救災的過程當中但是在這一次我們也沒有看到內政部部長的角色然後各部會是各行其事農業部只管他的農損那經濟部就是管台電的電力就是大家是在各做各的\n\n04:14.798 --> 04:31.170\n所以我覺得缺乏了一條邊的指揮跟這一個靈魂人物讓你所有的救災工作其實就是慢了下來所以民眾的抱怨才會這麼的多我認為是真的應該要徹底的檢討我具體的建議這個院長未來\n\n04:33.792 --> 05:00.666\n我們還會有風災我們可能會有其他型態的災害我認為在中央災害應變中心你們都必須把這個要不要設前進指揮所列為你們重要的討論事項跟議案在災害一開始的時候就應該有這個議案而且大家應該要去問地方政府的意見問各部會的意見我覺得多了這樣的一個整合中心所有救災的效率\n\n05:01.266 --> 05:13.046\n都會加速很多就像你自己早上在回答的現在設了前進指揮所讓曾經的政委來擔任這個角色之後是不是比之前沒有這樣的角色的時候是更快的\n\n05:13.430 --> 05:40.405\n是我們現在必須做這樣的檢討但是颱風的中央應變中心的指揮官就是內政部長水災的中央那有在指揮嗎這次我看起來就沒有在指揮啊他都主持了16次的工作會議他有去跨部會的整個大家尋求嗎那為什麼給大家反應就是抱怨然後覺得速度慢然後沒有效率嗎我說分兩段風災是內政部當指揮官水災是經濟部當指揮官\n\n05:42.046 --> 05:54.802\n風災之後7月6號到28號之間狀況一直存在誰在當指揮官那個時候是內政部當指揮官但他沒有發揮功效都在跟地方做充分的溝通728之後突然間整個量大起來之後\n\n05:58.166 --> 06:14.369\n除了經濟部當指揮官之外再請陳記者擔任前紀指揮長不是728之後整個量大起來剛剛前一位質詢的是台南的區域立委林軍憲委員他也講這一次是風災造成的損害是最大的728是有淹水沒有錯但是它水潰得也快\n\n06:15.490 --> 06:29.689\n所以最大的災害到目前為止還是是風災所造成的那我就覺得前面的這個救災我們的速度其實是緩慢的我們必須做這樣的檢討所以一定要檢討讓內政部來答覆我們必須做這樣的檢討也跟委員報告好那個謝院長\n\n06:31.471 --> 06:57.154\n跟委員報告從那個風災7月5號開始到風災結束之後內政部其實透過國土署透過相關的機構我們的人力已經直接介入包括部長直接調替代役的同仁那直接進入現場去協助相關的情理市長我要告訴你的就是能量是不足的而且沒有把各部會統合起來看起來內政部沒有辦法辦到所以院長我也直接建議你\n\n06:57.774 --> 07:18.789\n未來其實你必須指定一位政委政委才可以跨部會去協調現在看起來如果比較大型的風災連內政部的量能都不足他不足以去交動其他部會的首長所以這個是我覺得從系統組織面應該要徹底檢討的下一個這個天然災害我們才有能力來因應這樣可以做到嗎\n\n07:19.890 --> 07:35.343\n我認為需要往這個方向來做檢討謝謝院長接下來在救災的過程當中我認為不可以偏重偏愛哪個城市在這次救災當中我覺得很多的資源看起來給台南\n\n07:36.244 --> 07:57.196\n無論是你設了前進指揮中心或者是所有的政策第一時間好像都是以台南為優先我認為這樣的情況應該要去改善這一次的颱風是從嘉義布袋登陸的所以嘉義的影響也是非常的重大我認為在救災的過程當中都一樣重要\n\n07:57.876 --> 08:21.005\n不可以有偏廢因為包括你們去修繕加碼補助曾經的政務委員也都是進駐在台南然後剛剛你們提到的報告裡面你們協助去媒合的這些災後重建17區也都是以台南為主那我覺得嘉義有某種程度被忽略了我希望所有資源的比重都是一樣的這個可不可以做到\n\n08:21.810 --> 08:49.816\n報告委員我們不會有這樣的疏忽啦因為7月5號我就到了彰化跟南投而且颱風之後我第一站去的是嘉義市是我沒有說你的部分了你有到嘉義但是總統的部分賴總統的部分我們真的看到他多次就是前往台南關心當然他擔任過台南市長我們可以理解但是我想中央政府的要員你們在給予資源的時候或關愛的眼神\n\n08:50.276 --> 09:08.448\n就是我希望嘉義縣這次也重創我跟委員報告每一次在台南市政府的民治行政中心比較靠近嘉義開會的時候嘉義縣市的代表都有到場同時一起討論\n\n09:09.429 --> 09:30.619\n那只是因為台南的建樹太多了我知道但是嘉義也受損不少但是慢一個禮拜而已馬上現在已經進入梅河我希望下一次就是同步沒有慢的問題所有的條件都一樣對不能有慢的問題應該要講究同步實施好不好不要慢一個禮拜的這個落差第三個我要討論的就是這一次大家一直在強調說應該要從寬來認定\n\n09:33.720 --> 09:51.091\n我真的具體建議既然我們已經要設特別條例了這次災區只要有受損就應該要獲得補助這次我去南下勘災的時候的確有一些農民也好漁民也好他們的建物本身是沒有合法申請的\n\n09:51.511 --> 10:05.087\n或者是他沒有門牌號碼的但是在這次風災通通都受損了他可能是他建的一個公寮他可能是他設的一個工具室或者是他在漁邊蓋的一個小屋就是他的發電設備那這一些呢都沒有門牌號碼\n\n10:06.929 --> 10:35.991\n可能在政府的認定裡面它不在合法的土地上面但是我認為這個院長我希望這次所謂的重寬是通通都納入有損失就補助因為災民真的非常的辛苦我想你也到第一線去看他們真的是苦不堪言所以既然我們今天立法院也全力支持我們可以有個特別條例我認為重寬那就是有災損有受災就補助不要去認定它合法不合法這樣可以嗎\n\n10:36.331 --> 10:56.090\n我們認為本來就是這樣就是有實際居住不管這個房子是有沒有使用執照是偽章只要有實際居住那工具屋的部分呢那沒有實際居住是一半那工具屋的部分呢就是我講他放置器具的部分呢這一些呢他有一些是公寮放置設備的可不可以\n\n10:57.891 --> 11:11.083\n你們再回去研究好不好有的人是房子在那裡他沒有實際居住他可能住台北有些人他就是拿來設置放工具而已像漁民我們可以個案來看\n\n11:15.126 --> 11:36.152\n全部去討論另外一點我想幫災民請求的就是這一次你的屋頂整個的維修以中低收入戶為主但是坦白講我必須講跟院長報告在嘉義縣沿海其實很多民眾他不見得是中低收入戶但他的生活其實也不好過而且有些年紀都很大了我親自看過\n\n11:36.892 --> 12:00.944\n它的整個屋頂掀飛之後它現在就是真的非常的克難用這個帆布然後外面下大雨裡面又下小雨上個禮拜一嘉義又下了一場大雨我實地現場看到就是外面大雨裡面小雨然後底下還積水就那個生活條件非常的克難跟辛苦所以我認為這一次所謂的重寬不是只有政府認定的中低收入戶\n\n12:01.724 --> 12:13.840\n其實可以給當地的縣府就是更大的一個權限如果他實際生活是需要的我認為我們政府有能力就是照顧我們的人民這個可不可以再去重寬放寬給予補助\n\n12:15.970 --> 12:41.784\n除了低收入戶跟中低收入戶之外呢會放寬到關懷戶就包括特殊際遇的家庭以及脆弱家庭這個是經社工評定而且鄉鎮公所或是縣市政府那年紀很大的我覺得也需要不只是脆弱家庭好不好如果都是高齡者但他不是中低收入戶他已經沒有能力了基本上是會擴大關懷戶希望可以再繼續去幫忙\n\n12:44.065 --> 13:11.037\n第四個我要講的就是災民安置沒有到位就是這一次其實很多他都靠投靠自己的親戚用自己很克難的在原來的老屋裡面躲一個房間是不會漏雨的繼續住但是過去在這種重大的災難當中政府有個責任是要協助災民安置的這一次地方政府他的量能跟資源都做得不夠到位中央也沒有給予補助我希望這一點應該要好好的去檢討\n\n13:11.817 --> 13:27.510\n因為未來還會有類似的災難過去我們看到921的地震莫拉克風災它在災民的安置部分都處理得蠻好的但這一次的好像就是放牛吃草就是沒有比較好的一個措施一個好的可以安置的地點\n\n13:28.050 --> 13:46.156\n我希望這一點可以檢討因為時間有限了這個部分你們就回去檢討最後我要講的是不要讓這一次的颱風風災過後造成第二次環境的災難我們可以看到在這一次的災損裡面光電板有11.4萬片石棉瓦有1.56萬噸\n\n13:48.817 --> 14:07.044\n我要問的是現在清楚的進度那之前環境部說光電板都沒有問題結果現在堆置的光電板有流出紅色的油污我們問一下來那個內政部長可以先回去我們請環境部長這個紅色的油污是什麼院長你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎\n\n14:08.526 --> 14:35.242\n現場看起來而且事後調查應該是生鏽報告委員有兩個因為我們還在採驗水質過幾天會出來一個是旁邊有生鏽的鐵板第二個可能是車子的油污車子的油污在那邊也有這一個都造成環境的災度的污染然後石棉瓦的問題更嚴重因為它是致癌物那這一個量這麼的大我就問請具體回答什麼時候要清理完畢1.56萬噸\n\n14:37.083 --> 14:45.573\n包委員我們現在其實在包含台南跟嘉義都有快速的在處理當中那目前我們估計大概兩個月內可以全部清完從現在開始的兩個月內所以就是現在是八月\n\n14:53.060 --> 15:18.047\n15號對應該在9月底之前9月底因為其實嘉義台南有很多無阻我們會來檢視這個進度因為當地的居民很焦慮我也在未還委員會我也認為這個對於環境的危害是大的所以拜託這個部長跟院長這一塊的這個重建的速度我們其實是要上緊發條因為不能讓一次的風災再造成環境的二次危害這個是我們不願意看到的可以嗎\n\n15:18.447 --> 15:22.625\n好一定我們照時間來做謝謝好謝謝王一鳴委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.292,"end":4.656,"text":"謝謝院長 我們有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備選黃委員好"},{"start":15.819,"end":40.13,"text":"院長好 院長這個救災工作你也辛苦了大家都辛苦我也辛苦但是我看到其實有一群很辛苦的是更站在第一線救災的人員鄉鎮公所裡面的人員第一個我先幫他們發聲也請院長在這個救災告一段落之後一定要給第一線就是救災的不免不休救災這些人員給予必要的嘉獎跟獎勵"},{"start":41.391,"end":71.231,"text":"所以我到嘉義縣的時候有的工作人員已經講到哭出來了就是那個工作人員完全沒有辦法回家然後是先生帶著小孩跑到公所來找他就是好幾天為了救災都沒有辦法回家我覺得這種真的在第一線最辛苦的人員或許院長去勘災的時候沒有看到但是這是真實在發生的我請你務必要關注到他們的身心的健康跟安全而且給予必要的獎勵這個可以嗎"},{"start":72.252,"end":80.22,"text":"寬道村里長 我都跟他們說謝謝你不僅照顧自己 照顧你的里民 照顧你的村民要遭受很多的任勞任怨 他們真的是辛苦"},{"start":81.461,"end":106.662,"text":"接下來我們要來檢討的就是這次整個的災後的救災跟重建工作的確有讓人民不滿意的地方所以民調上面也顯示出來了現在包括雲嘉南的民眾是不滿意度都高於滿意度所以第一個我們應該要檢討的是為什麼這個前進指揮所設置的速度這麼的慢事實上按照災防法第13條第二項"},{"start":107.563,"end":126.55,"text":"就是中央災害應變中心可以是災情的情況或者是需要你可以在地方的應變中心或適當地點成立前進的協調所很重要的是要整合救災資源而且要協助地方政府執行救災的事宜"},{"start":127.31,"end":145.356,"text":"這件事情在災防法第二項講得非常的清楚但是這一次我要就教院長為什麼其實成立的時間是這麼的緩慢7月6號的風災到7月30號後來才成立了所謂的前進指揮所而且你們界定在是復原"},{"start":146.016,"end":166.807,"text":"但是前面的救災期間真的是非常的需要而沒有設置我要問的是你們中央災害應變中心在開會討論的時候有沒有人去review這個第13條第二項或者是主動提出來說我們是不是應該要設置前進指揮所有沒有去討論到這個議題如果有我覺得不會這麼的慢"},{"start":167.627,"end":187.912,"text":"我去參加的中央應變中心的工作會議以及所有的資料當中當初確實沒有討論到要不要何時成立因為中央應變中心跟地方政府的應變中心都做很充分的這個必要的一個對口而且隨時溝通中央也負擔起調度支援整個工作從7月6號颱風之後"},{"start":190.432,"end":217.935,"text":"狀況是一直存在但是他並不是繼續在發生但是這個院長你必須承認一點你自己上午的報告有說有三不足整合的能力不足這個也是這次我看到中央最該發揮的是跨部會中還有中央跟地方的整合協調能力但是在這次的風災我看不到第一時間有一個人是站出來在這樣的位置上面積極去協調負責的"},{"start":219.036,"end":235.753,"text":"就像你7月30號之後你才指定了這個陳金德政務委員他擔任這個角色但是在7月30號之前坦白講我沒有看到這個人這個人好像也不是內政部部長照這樣來講內政部部長是災防法的主管機關"},{"start":237.275,"end":254.358,"text":"應該是他擔負一個非常重要的角色在過去的救災的過程當中但是在這一次我們也沒有看到內政部部長的角色然後各部會是各行其事農業部只管他的農損那經濟部就是管台電的電力就是大家是在各做各的"},{"start":254.798,"end":271.17,"text":"所以我覺得缺乏了一條邊的指揮跟這一個靈魂人物讓你所有的救災工作其實就是慢了下來所以民眾的抱怨才會這麼的多我認為是真的應該要徹底的檢討我具體的建議這個院長未來"},{"start":273.792,"end":300.666,"text":"我們還會有風災我們可能會有其他型態的災害我認為在中央災害應變中心你們都必須把這個要不要設前進指揮所列為你們重要的討論事項跟議案在災害一開始的時候就應該有這個議案而且大家應該要去問地方政府的意見問各部會的意見我覺得多了這樣的一個整合中心所有救災的效率"},{"start":301.266,"end":313.046,"text":"都會加速很多就像你自己早上在回答的現在設了前進指揮所讓曾經的政委來擔任這個角色之後是不是比之前沒有這樣的角色的時候是更快的"},{"start":313.43,"end":340.405,"text":"是我們現在必須做這樣的檢討但是颱風的中央應變中心的指揮官就是內政部長水災的中央那有在指揮嗎這次我看起來就沒有在指揮啊他都主持了16次的工作會議他有去跨部會的整個大家尋求嗎那為什麼給大家反應就是抱怨然後覺得速度慢然後沒有效率嗎我說分兩段風災是內政部當指揮官水災是經濟部當指揮官"},{"start":342.046,"end":354.802,"text":"風災之後7月6號到28號之間狀況一直存在誰在當指揮官那個時候是內政部當指揮官但他沒有發揮功效都在跟地方做充分的溝通728之後突然間整個量大起來之後"},{"start":358.166,"end":374.369,"text":"除了經濟部當指揮官之外 再請陳記者擔任前紀指揮長不是728之後整個量大起來剛剛前一位質詢的是台南的區域立委林軍憲委員他也講這一次是風災造成的損害是最大的728是有淹水沒有錯 但是它水潰得也快"},{"start":375.49,"end":389.689,"text":"所以最大的災害到目前為止還是是風災所造成的那我就覺得前面的這個救災我們的速度其實是緩慢的我們必須做這樣的檢討所以一定要檢討讓內政部來答覆我們必須做這樣的檢討也跟委員報告好那個 謝院長"},{"start":391.471,"end":417.154,"text":"跟委員報告從那個風災7月5號開始到風災結束之後內政部其實透過國土署透過相關的機構我們的人力已經直接介入包括部長直接調替代役的同仁那直接進入現場去協助相關的情理市長我要告訴你的就是能量是不足的而且沒有把各部會統合起來看起來內政部沒有辦法辦到所以院長我也直接建議你"},{"start":417.774,"end":438.789,"text":"未來其實你必須指定一位政委政委才可以跨部會去協調現在看起來如果比較大型的風災連內政部的量能都不足他不足以去交動其他部會的首長所以這個是我覺得從系統組織面應該要徹底檢討的下一個這個天然災害我們才有能力來因應這樣可以做到嗎"},{"start":439.89,"end":455.343,"text":"我認為需要往這個方向來做檢討謝謝院長接下來在救災的過程當中我認為不可以偏重偏愛哪個城市在這次救災當中我覺得很多的資源看起來給台南"},{"start":456.244,"end":477.196,"text":"無論是你設了前進指揮中心或者是所有的政策第一時間好像都是以台南為優先我認為這樣的情況應該要去改善這一次的颱風是從嘉義布袋登陸的所以嘉義的影響也是非常的重大我認為在救災的過程當中都一樣重要"},{"start":477.876,"end":501.005,"text":"不可以有偏廢因為包括你們去修繕加碼補助曾經的政務委員也都是進駐在台南然後剛剛你們提到的報告裡面你們協助去媒合的這些災後重建17區也都是以台南為主那我覺得嘉義有某種程度被忽略了我希望所有資源的比重都是一樣的這個可不可以做到"},{"start":501.81,"end":529.816,"text":"報告委員我們不會有這樣的疏忽啦因為7月5號我就到了彰化跟南投而且颱風之後我第一站去的是嘉義市是我沒有說你的部分了你有到嘉義但是總統的部分賴總統的部分我們真的看到他多次就是前往台南關心當然他擔任過台南市長我們可以理解但是我想中央政府的要員你們在給予資源的時候或關愛的眼神"},{"start":530.276,"end":548.448,"text":"就是我希望嘉義縣這次也重創我跟委員報告每一次在台南市政府的民治行政中心比較靠近嘉義開會的時候嘉義縣市的代表都有到場同時一起討論"},{"start":549.429,"end":570.619,"text":"那只是因為台南的建樹太多了我知道 但是嘉義也受損不少但是慢一個禮拜而已馬上現在已經進入梅河我希望下一次就是同步沒有慢的問題所有的條件都一樣對 不能有慢的問題應該要講究同步實施好不好不要慢一個禮拜的這個落差第三個我要討論的就是這一次大家一直在強調說應該要從寬來認定"},{"start":573.72,"end":591.091,"text":"我真的具體建議既然我們已經要設特別條例了這次災區只要有受損就應該要獲得補助這次我去南下勘災的時候的確有一些農民也好漁民也好他們的建物本身是沒有合法申請的"},{"start":591.511,"end":605.087,"text":"或者是他沒有門牌號碼的但是在這次風災通通都受損了他可能是他建的一個公寮他可能是他設的一個工具室或者是他在漁邊蓋的一個小屋就是他的發電設備那這一些呢都沒有門牌號碼"},{"start":606.929,"end":635.991,"text":"可能在政府的認定裡面它不在合法的土地上面但是我認為這個院長我希望這次所謂的重寬是通通都納入有損失就補助因為災民真的非常的辛苦我想你也到第一線去看他們真的是苦不堪言所以既然我們今天立法院也全力支持我們可以有個特別條例我認為重寬那就是有災損有受災就補助不要去認定它合法不合法這樣可以嗎"},{"start":636.331,"end":656.09,"text":"我們認為本來就是這樣就是有實際居住不管這個房子是有沒有使用執照是偽章只要有實際居住那工具屋的部分呢那沒有實際居住是一半那工具屋的部分呢就是我講他放置器具的部分呢這一些呢他有一些是公寮放置設備的可不可以"},{"start":657.891,"end":671.083,"text":"你們再回去研究好不好有的人是房子在那裡他沒有實際居住他可能住台北有些人他就是拿來設置放工具而已像漁民我們可以個案來看"},{"start":675.126,"end":696.152,"text":"全部去討論另外一點我想幫災民請求的就是這一次你的屋頂整個的維修以中低收入戶為主但是坦白講我必須講跟院長報告在嘉義縣沿海其實很多民眾他不見得是中低收入戶但他的生活其實也不好過而且有些年紀都很大了我親自看過"},{"start":696.892,"end":720.944,"text":"它的整個屋頂掀飛之後它現在就是真的非常的克難用這個帆布然後外面下大雨裡面又下小雨上個禮拜一嘉義又下了一場大雨我實地現場看到就是外面大雨裡面小雨然後底下還積水就那個生活條件非常的克難跟辛苦所以我認為這一次所謂的重寬不是只有政府認定的中低收入戶"},{"start":721.724,"end":733.84,"text":"其實可以給當地的縣府就是更大的一個權限如果他實際生活是需要的我認為我們政府有能力就是照顧我們的人民這個可不可以再去重寬放寬給予補助"},{"start":735.97,"end":761.784,"text":"除了低收入戶跟中低收入戶之外呢會放寬到關懷戶就包括特殊際遇的家庭以及脆弱家庭這個是經社工評定而且鄉鎮公所或是縣市政府那年紀很大的我覺得也需要不只是脆弱家庭好不好如果都是高齡者但他不是中低收入戶他已經沒有能力了基本上是會擴大關懷戶希望可以再繼續去幫忙"},{"start":764.065,"end":791.037,"text":"第四個我要講的就是災民安置沒有到位就是這一次其實很多他都靠投靠自己的親戚用自己很克難的在原來的老屋裡面躲一個房間是不會漏雨的繼續住但是過去在這種重大的災難當中政府有個責任是要協助災民安置的這一次地方政府他的量能跟資源都做得不夠到位中央也沒有給予補助我希望這一點應該要好好的去檢討"},{"start":791.817,"end":807.51,"text":"因為未來還會有類似的災難過去我們看到921的地震莫拉克風災它在災民的安置部分都處理得蠻好的但這一次的好像就是放牛吃草就是沒有比較好的一個措施一個好的可以安置的地點"},{"start":808.05,"end":826.156,"text":"我希望這一點可以檢討因為時間有限了這個部分你們就回去檢討最後我要講的是不要讓這一次的颱風風災過後造成第二次環境的災難我們可以看到在這一次的災損裡面光電板有11.4萬片石棉瓦有1.56萬噸"},{"start":828.817,"end":847.044,"text":"我要問的是現在清楚的進度那之前環境部說光電板都沒有問題結果現在堆置的光電板有流出紅色的油污我們問一下來那個內政部長可以先回去我們請環境部長這個紅色的油污是什麼院長你知道嗎你有看到這個新聞嗎"},{"start":848.526,"end":875.242,"text":"現場看起來 而且事後調查 應該是生鏽報告委員 有兩個因為我們還在採驗水質 過幾天會出來一個是旁邊有生鏽的鐵板第二個可能是車子的油污車子的油污在那邊也有這一個都造成環境的災度的污染然後石棉瓦的問題更嚴重因為它是致癌物那這一個量這麼的大我就問 請具體回答什麼時候要清理完畢1.56萬噸"},{"start":877.083,"end":885.573,"text":"包委員我們現在其實在包含台南跟嘉義都有快速的在處理當中那目前我們估計大概兩個月內可以全部清完從現在開始的兩個月內所以就是現在是八月"},{"start":893.06,"end":918.047,"text":"15號對應該在9月底之前9月底因為其實嘉義台南有很多無阻我們會來檢視這個進度因為當地的居民很焦慮我也在未還委員會我也認為這個對於環境的危害是大的所以拜託這個部長跟院長這一塊的這個重建的速度我們其實是要上緊發條因為不能讓一次的風災再造成環境的二次危害這個是我們不願意看到的可以嗎"},{"start":918.447,"end":922.625,"text":"好 一定我們照時間來做 謝謝好 謝謝王一鳴委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":60,"blocks":[["王委員育敏：（14時58分）謝謝院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：王委員好。"],["王委員育敏：院長好。院長，這次救災工作你也辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：大家都辛苦，委員也辛苦了。"],["王委員育敏：但是我看到其實有一群很辛苦的是更站在第一線救災的人員，也就是鄉鎮公所裡面的人員，第一個我先幫他們發聲，也請院長在救災告一段落之後，一定要給第一線不眠不休救災的這些人員給予必要的嘉獎跟獎勵。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["王委員育敏：因為我到嘉義縣的時候，有的工作人員已經講到哭出來了，工作人員完全沒有辦法回家，是先生帶著小孩跑到公所來找他，就是好幾天為了救災都沒有辦法回家。我覺得這種真的在第一線最辛苦的人員，或許院長去勘災的時候沒有看到。"],["卓院長榮泰：有。"],["王委員育敏：但是這是真實在發生的，我請你務必要關注到他們身心的健康跟安全，而且給予必要的獎勵，這個可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。看到村里長，我都跟他們說：謝謝你，不僅照顧自己，照顧你的里民，照顧你的村民，還要遭受很多的任勞任怨，他們真的是辛苦。"],["王委員育敏：好。接下來我們要來檢討的就是這次整個的災後的救災跟重建工作，的確有讓人民不滿意的地方，所以在民調上面也顯示出來了，現在包括雲嘉南民眾的不滿意度都高於滿意度，所以第一個我們應該要檢討的是，為什麼這個前進指揮所設置的速度這麼的慢？事實上，按照災防法第十三條第二項，就是中央災害應變中心可以視災情的情況或需要，在地方應變中心或適當地點成立前進協調所，很重要的是要整合救災資源，而且要協助地方政府執行救災事宜。這件事情在災防法第二項講得非常清楚，這一次我要就教院長，為什麼成立的時間這麼緩慢？7月6日的風災，到7月30日後才成立了所謂的前進指揮所，而且你們界定是在復原，但是前面的救災期間真的是非常的需要，而沒有設置。我要問的是中央災害應變中心在開會討論的時候，有沒有人去review第十三條第二項？或者是主動提出來是不是應該要設置前進指揮所？有沒有討論這個議題？如果有，我覺得不會這麼慢。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，我參加的中央應變中心的工作會議以及所有資料中，當初確實沒有討論到要不要及何時成立，因為中央應變中心跟地方政府的應變中心都有很充分的必要對口，而且隨時溝通。中央也負擔起調度支援的整個工作，從7月6日颱風之後，狀況是一直存在，但是並不是持續在發生、增加，一直到7月28日之後。"],["王委員育敏：但是院長必須承認一點，你自己上午的報告說有三不足。整合的能力不足，中央最該發揮的是跨部會還有中央跟地方的整合協調能力，但是在這次的風災，我看不到第一時間有一個人站出來，在這樣的位置上積極協調負責的，就像你在7月30日之後才指定了陳金德政務委員擔任這個角色，但是在7月30日之前，坦白講，我沒有看到這個人，這個人好像也不是內政部部長，照道理來講，內政部部長是災防法的主管機關，在過去的救災過程當中，應該是要擔負一個非常重要的角色。但是在這次也沒有看到內政部部長的角色，然後各部會是各行其是，農業部只管農損，經濟部就是管台電的電力，大家在各做各的，我覺得缺乏了一條鞭的指揮跟這一個靈魂人物，讓所有的救災工作慢了下來，所以民眾的抱怨才會這麼多。我認為真的應該要澈底檢討，這是我具體的建議。","未來還會有風災，可能會有其他型態的災害，我認為中央災害應變中心必須把設立前進指揮所列為重要的討論事項跟議案，在災害一開始的時候，就應該有這個議案，而且大家應該要去問地方政府的意見，問各部會的意見，我覺得多了這樣的整合中心，所有救災的效率都會加速很多，就像你自己早上所回答的，現在設了前進指揮所，讓陳金德政務委員來擔任這個角色之後，是不是比之前沒有這樣角色的時候是更快的？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在必須做這樣的檢討，但是颱風的中央應變中心指揮官就是內政部長，水災的中央應變中心就是……"],["王委員育敏：有在指揮嗎？這次我看起來就沒有在指揮啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：有、有、有，他都主持了16次的工作會議，郭部長……"],["王委員育敏：他有跨部會整合大家的需求嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：他也四處去，也有、也有。"],["王委員育敏：那為什麼大家的反映就是抱怨，覺得速度慢、沒有效率？"],["卓院長榮泰：這要分兩段，風災是內政部當指揮官，水災是經濟部當指揮官。"],["王委員育敏：那不行啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：風災之後，7月6日到28日之間，狀況一直存在……"],["王委員育敏：誰在當指揮官？"],["卓院長榮泰：那個時候是內政部當指揮官。"],["王委員育敏：但是他沒有發揮功效，我必須坦白講。"],["卓院長榮泰：因為都在跟地方做充分的溝通，七二八之後突然間整個量大起來，除了經濟部當指揮官之外，再請陳金德政委擔任前進指揮所……"],["王委員育敏：院長，不是七二八之後整個量大起來，剛剛前一位質詢的是臺南的區域立委林俊憲委員，他也講這一次是風災造成的損害最大，七二八有淹水沒有錯，但是水退得也快……"],["卓院長榮泰：複合性的災害。"],["王委員育敏：所以最大的災害，到目前為止還是風災所造成的。我覺得前面的救災速度其實是緩慢的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們必須做這樣的檢討，讓內政部來答復。"],["王委員育敏：所以一定要檢討，好不好？"],["董次長建宏：跟委員報告，從7月5日風災開始到風災結束之後，內政部其實透過國土署、透過相關的機構，我們的人力已經直接介入，包括部長直接調替代役的同仁進入現場去協助相關的清理……"],["王委員育敏：次長，我要告訴你的就是量能是不足的，而且沒有把各部會統合起來，看起來內政部沒有辦法辦到，所以院長，我也直接建議你，其實未來你必須指定一位政委，政委才可以跨部會去協調。現在看起來如果是比較大型的風災，連內政部的量能都不足，它不足以去叫動其他部會的首長，所以這個是我覺得從系統組織面應該要澈底檢討的，下一個天然災害我們才有能力來因應，這樣可以做到嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為需要往這個方向檢討，謝謝。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝院長。接下來，在救災的過程當中，我認為不可以偏重、偏愛哪個城市。在這次救災當中，我覺得很多的資源看起來都是給臺南，無論是你設了前進指揮中心，或者是所有的政策，第一時間好像都是以臺南為優先，我認為這樣的情況應該要去改善。這一次的颱風是從嘉義布袋登陸的，所以對嘉義的影響也是非常重大，我認為在救災的過程當中都一樣重要，不可以有偏廢，因為包括你們去修繕、加碼補助，陳金德政務委員也都是進駐在臺南。然後在剛剛你們提到的報告裡面，你們協助去媒合的這一些災後重建的17區，也都是以臺南為主，我覺得嘉義有某種程度被忽略了，我希望所有資源的比重都是一樣的，這個可不可以做到？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們不會有這樣的疏忽，因為7月5號我就到了彰化跟南投。"],["王委員育敏：我知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：而且颱風之後我第一站去的是嘉義市。"],["王委員育敏：是，我沒有說你的部分，你有到嘉義，但是賴總統的部分，我們真的看到他就是多次前往臺南關心，當然他擔任過臺南市長，我們可以理解，但是我想中央政府的要員，你們在給予資源或關愛眼神的時候，我希望要一致，嘉義縣這一次也重創。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳金德政委召開的會議也都有邀請相關縣市。"],["陳主任委員金德：跟委員報告，每一次在臺南市政府的民治市政中心討論，因為比較靠近嘉義，所以開會的時候嘉義縣市的代表都有到場，也同時一起討論，只是因為臺南的件數太多了，嘉義……"],["王委員育敏：我知道，但是嘉義也受損不少。"],["陳主任委員金德：對，但是慢一個禮拜而已，現在已經進入媒合，而且非常快速。"],["王委員育敏：我希望下一次就是同步，沒有慢的問題。"],["陳主任委員金德：而且所有的條件都一樣。"],["王委員育敏：對，不能有慢的問題，應該要同步實施，好不好？不要有慢一個禮拜的落差。"],["陳主任委員金德：是。"],["王委員育敏：第三個我要討論的就是，這一次大家也在強調應該要從寬來認定，我真的具體建議，既然我們已經要設特別條例了，這次災區只要有受損就應該要獲得補助。這次我南下勘災的時候，的確有一些農民也好、漁民也好，他們的建物本身是沒有合法申請的，或者是沒有門牌號碼的，但是在這次風災統統都受損了，那可能是他建的一個工寮、可能是他設的工具室，或者是在魚塭邊蓋的小屋，就是放他的發電設備，這一些都沒有門牌號碼，可能在政府認定裡面，它不在合法的土地上面。但是院長，我希望這次所謂的從寬是統統都納入，有損失就補助，因為災民真的非常辛苦，我想你也有到第一線去看過，他們真的是苦不堪言。既然今天立法院全力支持，我們可以有一個特別條例，我認為要從寬，就是有災損、有受災就補助，不要去認定它合法不合法，這樣可以嗎？"],["陳主任委員金德：我們跟委員報告，本來就是這樣，就是有實際居住，不管這個房子有沒有使用執照，或是違章，只要有實際居住，都有補助。"],["王委員育敏：那工具屋的部分呢？"],["陳主任委員金德：沒有實際居住是補助一半。"],["王委員育敏：那工具屋的部分呢？他放置器具的部分呢？這一些呢？有一些是工寮，是放置設備的，可不可以？"],["陳主任委員金德：這個是看……"],["王委員育敏：你們再回去研究好不好？我是希望可以，我是幫災民請命。"],["陳主任委員金德：因為有的人是房子在那裡，但他沒有實際居住。"],["王委員育敏：對。"],["陳主任委員金德：他可能住臺北，但房子在那裡，那個是減半補助。"],["王委員育敏：有些人就是設置拿來放工具而已，像漁民，很多都是放置工具的。"],["陳主任委員金德：我們可以個案來看，我們再就各項的問題來看。"],["王委員育敏：你們全部去討論。另外一點我想幫災民請求的就是，這一次你屋頂的整個維修以中低收入戶為主，但是我必須坦白講，跟院長報告，在嘉義縣沿海其實很多民眾不見得是中低收入戶，但他的生活其實也不好過，而且有些人年紀都很大了，我親自看過，他現在生活真的非常克難，他的整個屋頂被掀飛之後，只用帆布蓋著，然後外面下大雨，裡面又下小雨。上個禮拜一嘉義又下了一場大雨，我實地現場看到的就是外面下大雨，裡面下小雨，然後底下還積水，那個生活條件非常地克難跟辛苦。所以我認為這一次所謂的從寬，不是只有政府認定的中低收入戶，其實可以給當地縣府更大的一個權限，如果他實際生活是需要的，我認為政府有能力就是照顧我們的人民，這個可不可以再從寬、放寬給予補助？"],["卓院長榮泰：就是在強調關懷戶的部分。"],["陳主任委員金德：除了低收入戶跟中低收入戶之外，會放寬到關懷戶，包括特殊境遇的家庭以及脆弱家庭，這個是經社工評定，而且鄉鎮公所或縣市政府有立案的。"],["王委員育敏：那年紀很大的我覺得也需要，不只是脆弱家庭，好不好？如果都是高齡者，但他不是中低收入戶，他已經沒有能力了。"],["陳主任委員金德：有些個案是可以評估，基本上是會擴大關懷戶。"],["王委員育敏：好，希望可以再繼續去幫忙。","第四個我要講的就是災民安置沒有到位，這次其實很多人都是投靠自己的親戚，自己很克難地在原來的老屋裡面躲一個房間是不會漏雨的、繼續住。但過去在這種重大的災難當中，政府有一個責任是要協助災民安置，這次地方政府的量能跟資源都做得不夠到位，中央也沒有給予補助，我希望這一點應該要好好檢討，因為未來還會有類似的災難。過去我們看到九二一地震、莫拉克風災，當時在災民的安置部分都處理得蠻好的，但這一次好像就是放牛吃草，沒有比較好的一個措施、一個好的可以安置的地點，我希望這一點可以檢討。因為時間有限，這個部分你們就回去檢討。","最後我要講的是，不要讓這一次的颱風風災過後造成第二次環境的災難。我們可以看到在這一次的災損裡面，光電板有11.4萬片，石綿瓦有1.56萬噸。我要問的是現在清除的進度，之前環境部說光電板都沒有問題，結果現在堆置的光電板有流出紅色的油污。我們問一下，內政部次長可以先回去，我們請環境部部長，這個紅色的油污是什麼？院長，你知道嗎？你有看到這個新聞嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：現場看起來，而且事後調查，應該是生鏽。"],["王委員育敏：這個是什麼？"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，有兩個，因為我們還在採驗水質，過幾天會出來，一個是旁邊有生鏽的鐵板，第二個可能是車子的油污。"],["王委員育敏：車子的油污在那邊也有。"],["彭部長啓明：對，有可能。"],["王委員育敏：這個都造成環境的再度污染，然後石綿瓦的問題更嚴重，因為它是致癌物，這個量這麼地大，我就問，請具體回答，什麼時候要清理完畢？1.56萬噸。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，我們現在其實在包含臺南跟嘉義都有快速地在處理當中，目前估計大概兩個月內可以全部清完。"],["王委員育敏：兩個月內？"],["彭部長啓明：兩個多月內。"],["王委員育敏：從現在開始的兩個月內？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對、對，絕對可以清完。"],["王委員育敏：現在是8月15號……"],["彭部長啓明：對，應該在9月底之前。"],["王委員育敏：9月底？"],["彭部長啓明：因為其實嘉義、臺南有很多無主的……"],["王委員育敏：好，我們會檢視這個進度。"],["彭部長啓明：沒問題。"],["王委員育敏：因為當地的居民很焦慮，我也在衛環委員會，我也認為這個對於環境的危害是大的，所以拜託部長跟院長，這一塊的重建速度我們其實是要上緊發條，因為不能讓一次的風災再造成環境的二次危害，這個是我們不願意看到的，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，一定，我們照時間來做，謝謝委員。"],["王委員育敏：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王育敏委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢。","我們謝謝葛如鈞委員、邱鎮軍委員、盧縣一委員，還有陳菁徽委員共同參與專案報告。","接下來請蔡易餘委員發言，邱鎮軍委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":138,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-24","speakers":["韓國瑜","鍾佳濱","傅崐萁","林國成","王定宇","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","徐富癸","張嘉郡","賴惠員","謝龍介","林俊憲","王育敏","蔡易餘","邱鎮軍","郭國文","蘇清泉","陳冠廷","盧縣一","林岱樺","羅智強","劉建國","黃建賓"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2025-08-12"],"gazette_id":"1147001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147001_00003","1147001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第24次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147001_00006"}}}