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\"會\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 741.894, \"end\": 742.114, \"score\": 0.818}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 742.114, \"end\": 742.254, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"量\", \"start\": 742.254, \"end\": 742.274, \"score\": 0.748}]}, {\"start\": 742.574, \"end\": 754.911, \"text\": \"好 謝謝院長那我趕快再繼續接下來問一下關於這個接下來救災那國防部我看這個相關的這個國防部災害防救辦法裡面有包含預置兵力的選項預置兵力的選項\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 742.574, \"end\": 743.015, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 743.015, \"end\": 743.295, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 743.295, \"end\": 743.435, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 743.435, \"end\": 743.776, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"趕\"}, {\"word\": \"快\", \"start\": 743.776, \"end\": 743.936, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 743.936, \"end\": 744.397, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 744.397, \"end\": 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0.869}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 749.223, \"end\": 750.045, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 750.045, \"end\": 750.445, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 750.445, \"end\": 750.926, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 750.926, \"end\": 751.066, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 751.066, \"end\": 751.386, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"害\", \"start\": 751.386, \"end\": 752.208, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 752.208, \"end\": 752.368, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"救\", \"start\": 752.368, \"end\": 752.768, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 752.768, \"end\": 753.069, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 753.069, \"end\": 753.529, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 753.529, \"end\": 753.77, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 753.77, \"end\": 753.95, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 753.95, \"end\": 754.15, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"置\", \"start\": 754.15, \"end\": 754.17, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"兵\", \"start\": 754.17, \"end\": 754.21, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 754.21, \"end\": 754.31, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 754.31, \"end\": 754.371, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"置\", \"start\": 754.371, \"end\": 754.571, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"兵\", \"start\": 754.571, \"end\": 754.751, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 754.751, \"end\": 754.891, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 754.891, \"end\": 754.911, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}]}, {\"start\": 757.079, \"end\": 767.974, \"text\": \"那這一次我必須要提到這一點的原因是因為每一次的狀況不同那我們是也可以請國防部的一起來共同來討論我們是不是可以預先因為這個選項裡面有包含預先將部隊進駐高風險抑制災的鄉鎮之外\", 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762.787, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 762.787, \"end\": 763.147, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 763.147, \"end\": 763.408, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 763.408, \"end\": 763.548, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 763.548, \"end\": 763.768, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 763.768, \"end\": 763.888, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 763.888, \"end\": 764.309, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"共\", \"start\": 764.309, \"end\": 764.449, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 764.449, \"end\": 765.971, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"論\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 765.971, \"end\": 766.172, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 766.172, \"end\": 766.252, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 766.252, \"end\": 766.312, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 766.312, \"end\": 766.412, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 766.412, \"end\": 766.492, \"score\": 0.765}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 766.492, \"end\": 766.512, \"score\": 0.343}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 766.512, \"end\": 766.532, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 766.532, \"end\": 766.552, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"選\"}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 766.552, \"end\": 766.572, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 766.572, \"end\": 766.612, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"包\", \"start\": 766.612, \"end\": 766.652, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"含\", \"start\": 766.652, \"end\": 766.853, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 766.853, \"end\": 767.594, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"將\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 767.594, \"end\": 767.674, \"score\": 0.745}, {\"word\": \"隊\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"駐\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 767.674, \"end\": 767.734, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"抑\", \"start\": 767.734, \"end\": 767.814, \"score\": 0.735}, {\"word\": \"制\", \"start\": 767.814, \"end\": 767.894, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"災\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 767.894, \"end\": 767.934, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"鄉\"}, {\"word\": \"鎮\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 767.934, \"end\": 767.954, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 767.954, \"end\": 767.974, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 773.061, \"end\": 799.801, \"text\": \"那除了這個部分我想是不是預制一些相關的這些重機具裝備還有可能未來會真用的特別是提到這個是發電 通信還有災後的防疫這些我們都預先先準備好因為有些時候我上次也提到就是在跟對交通部的質詢的時候就是許多的開口企業的廠商他們是要負責把道路清清完之後台電才可以進入電信業者可以進入但是他們本身在第一時間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 773.061, \"end\": 773.541, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"除\", \"start\": 773.541, \"end\": 773.642, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 773.642, \"end\": 774.002, \"score\": 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\"end\": 924.435, \"score\": 0.5}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 924.435, \"end\": 924.455, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,929 --> 00:00:07,066\n你好我們請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:20,305 --> 00:00:48,439\n陳薇好謝謝辛苦你了院長辛苦了院長剛才有提到這個政府的負債比率那我們稍微談一下負債比率因為這跟我們未來可能要舉在因應未來各個不同的氣候挑戰是有關的其實在一般的政府負債台灣是優於主要國家台灣目前是三成左右那得利於過去的稅務改革也是得利於過去的一些我們選擇用正確的方式用財政的手段去面對那相比之下美國是249\n\n3\n00:00:50,899 --> 00:01:18,755\n美國是118%日本是249%所以比較起來我們的負債比例是相對安全的所以如果未來面臨氣候的挑戰當我們該舉債來去面對的話我大力的支持政府特別是行政院能夠編相關的預算我們一起來面對這樣子的挑戰所以這一次行政院通過的這個單大式颱風跟這個728豪雨災後的這個重建的特別預算這個條例基本上我們就是用我們的預算去做對的事情\n\n4\n00:01:19,275 --> 00:01:35,853\n所以把農業設施、現金救助還有貸款利息我看到都有納入重建的項目這個地方我是給予肯定的但是執行的細節的方面特別是我們嘉義地區剛才有提到有很多農作物高經濟作物它是受到嚴重的創傷\n\n5\n00:01:37,074 --> 00:01:58,212\n所以這一次的嘉義災情它是史無前例所以條例裡面第四條第二項它有授權各中央機關來去訂定補助方法院長有多次提到我們是要重優、重寬跟重數我就特別提到這個重優的部分這個原則農業部之前有來我們嘉義來勘災部長也有提到\n\n6\n00:01:58,872 --> 00:02:22,287\n其實這一次的這個多年生的作物我特別提到多年生的作物就是說因為很多的因為風災它是連根拔起也就是說像是嘉義的像茶咖啡梅子荔枝龍眼還有這個樹葡萄等種類它是主幹它是這個主樹幹主幹或者是根系是連根拔起所以它影響的不是一級\n\n7\n00:02:23,322 --> 00:02:49,345\n他影響的是三到五年的收成而且這一次是颱風來之後又好雨好雨來之後又颱風去年也有颱風所以過去一年今年到明年後年五年甚至是接下來六七年他們等於是全部都要在蒙受這個損失所以剛才有提到是產值跟成本成本的20%剛才部長有提到成本的20%我是很希望具體來說要考量到物價上漲還有\n\n8\n00:02:50,686 --> 00:03:15,611\n多年生的這些作物的特性我是希望說能夠在納入這一次特別條例的考量的時候把它佐樣提升剛才提到的這一些我剛提到荔枝農園、茶、咖啡等等其實多品項的作物全部都面臨這樣子的問題包含香蕉也是部長上次來我們看到你來我們中府的時候那墾頓農民是欲哭無淚就是因為說他們需要足夠的成本來去反映然後我們如果只是用\n\n9\n00:03:16,651 --> 00:03:39,643\n過去的20%而不是考量到今年去年跟明年這種物價非常快速的上漲的狀況的話我認為民眾是沒有辦法感受到的包含損農也是我幾乎每到一個地方每一位農民朋友們都跟我們說他不僅是青農老農全部都有這樣子的問題是不是可以請部長剛才您說會好好的去做審視是不是可以給我們簡單一個回應\n\n10\n00:03:40,783 --> 00:04:02,728\n謝謝委員的這樣子的一個說明我想基本上我們農業部在做救災的時候就是一定要讓農民恢復信心能夠持續的在農業的經營這是我想我們最中最核心的一個價值所以我們在考慮這個農損的救助金因為農損的救助金在現在的法律都是用20的成本去計算那每一年我們都調一次\n\n11\n00:04:03,348 --> 00:04:31,127\n但是條是針對相關的成本而上升的那我現在在考慮的是說我要不要鎖住這個20這個20到底有沒有道理所以我會用專案的方式來解決這樣的一個問題謝謝部長就是用專案的方式那請把我剛才提到的多年生的作物那直接是連根拔起所以說這20%是不是反映到的是今年的20%因為它是等於是三五年十年等於是一個長期的影響這個再麻煩部長能夠把它納入考量\n\n12\n00:04:31,727 --> 00:04:54,289\n那院長再來就是跟針對這個山區的防災的整備特別是跟電力相關的那我就不再贅述因為這次三千多根電線趕倒塌然後近百萬戶停電那耗電的時間是非常長的我想提到這個山區的電網的部分針對山區的電網我想請教政府是不是有考慮推動微電網跟這個儲物能的機制\n\n13\n00:04:56,551 --> 00:05:22,913\n那這些偏遠的社區它在主電網失效的時候至少在關鍵的基礎設施包含他們的當地的消防單位或者是這一個學校它能夠可以至少有一個微電網還有除電的機制讓他們能夠有機會在救助來之前能夠自己支出好在答覆微電網我們的計畫之前容許給我一分鐘我談談我們的舉讚\n\n14\n00:05:24,847 --> 00:05:48,515\n其實在去年520之前我跟總統在工作之前有個長談我們都認為我們要嚴守國家的財政紀律所以除了軍購等必要的預算之外我們希望能夠編正規的長年預算而不編特別預算我們也希望能夠降低國家舉債雖然我們現在還有餘裕的空間但是我們不是守成不變我們希望把\n\n15\n00:05:49,884 --> 00:06:14,426\n舉在空間騰出來當國家有需要的時候我們有更多的力量來做所以今年的總預算我們雖然編了三兆以上但是有兩兆八百零九億它是新增的項目就是原來的預算當中我們是不允許隨意增加但新增項目是國家所需要所以新增的項目我們可以編進來但是不要在現有的無限給它膨脹\n\n16\n00:06:15,547 --> 00:06:37,851\n是要壓低整個國家未來舉債的空間能夠讓它餘裕出來但是這一次我覺得有一點跟想法不一樣就是我們必須靠舉債來支應這個是特別條例靠舉債來支應包括發現金的這個方式但是這如果已經形成一種社會跟國會的期待跟要求我們只要改變我們的初衷\n\n17\n00:06:38,351 --> 00:07:05,031\n但是我要說的是這跟原來我們在治理國家的方向上是截然不同的這是一個很大的心理的障礙但是我們願意把它突破舉債不舉債不是不做事是放在未來來做那現在如果已經到了這個時候我們就用舉債來幫助農民幫助國家這是因為去年院長你們選擇用嚴守財政機率所以我們才有餘裕來面對這次的挑戰所以這一次舉債是正確的\n\n18\n00:07:05,831 --> 00:07:20,421\n未來局在也是正確的如果要走未來去做修復我們的社區我認為這是正確的做法那剛剛委員所說的這個包括我們建制行動的通訊行動車還有建制移動式的發動機再來我們增加\n\n19\n00:07:21,101 --> 00:07:38,921\n第二軌的這個高抗災性的基地台包括微波包括衛星等等都是未來我們在災區以及在增強韌性上面我們必須要去做的我也承認在這個過程當中我們在這次的韌性考驗上我們不足所以未來一定用比較大的\n\n20\n00:07:40,227 --> 00:07:56,897\n這個政策跟財務的支持把這些部分給它迅速的強化起來院長我是說微電網就是說儲能就是社區比較偏遠的地方能夠有儲能的計畫微電網如果在一個地區裡面它有發電的設備光電板但是因為停電它沒有辦法我們就用移動式的發電機\n\n21\n00:07:58,078 --> 00:08:13,060\n跟這個銜接的方式讓他能夠提供給附近的業者能夠來使用那這個微電網的出現的建置能夠保持現在比較大型電網上安全上的不足的考量這個也是在相同的這個政策裡面來考量的\n\n22\n00:08:14,962 --> 00:08:28,538\n報告委內政部這邊做一點補充就是說在院長的指示之下其實我們在相關的內政部的一些韌性計畫裡面我們也提了微電網社區的計畫也跟台電合作所以在未來我們會針對國內一百七十幾個抑制災的古島社區我們會協助他們評估\n\n23\n00:08:34,244 --> 00:08:48,512\n是否進行相關的微電網設置特別是儲能的部分因為設置儲能還有一些小型的光電或者是小水利的系統協助社區一起來共同度過這樣的風險我特別要強調這個部分就是說因為道路\n\n24\n00:08:53,215 --> 00:09:10,616\n要搶通之後那再來才會有電再來才會有訊號就是所謂的這個訊號所以我希望他們能夠自給自足的目的也是這樣子所以為什麼要有儲能也是希望有這樣子最基本他能夠我們會跟台電合作再麻煩一下還是麻煩就是說在我們山區有一個計畫就是說至少有幾個\n\n25\n00:09:11,597 --> 00:09:32,308\n給自己一個數字好不好完成幾個數字那我們下次我們在特別是在我們梅山竹崎阿里山地區等到我們全部通過去的話他可能比較後期他們前期至少有能夠有微電網或者是儲能設備的話對他們會有一些很正面的幫助這個部分我們希望盡快盡速來麻煩那再來就是災民的安置那院長這一次的風災我看其實\n\n26\n00:09:34,332 --> 00:09:50,228\n有很多年長的農民他不太願意到異地的收容所民間有提出一些其他的方案包含檢疫的住宅臨時的住宅貨櫃屋組合屋等等的就地安置的方向那我是不是可以請院長\n\n27\n00:09:51,585 --> 00:10:09,643\n所以行政部門來考慮一下說是不是在災前我們就可以先完成一些開口契約的簽訂讓這個未來他們可以更就是說更快速更彈性的選擇他們的安置選項清單所以包含組合屋會櫃屋等等都是一個方向不知道院長怎麼看\n\n28\n00:10:10,063 --> 00:10:25,419\n跟委員報告在颱風之後的幾天內我就向地方政府提出有沒有需求要用組合屋我們也找到一些能夠提供組合屋的業者跟原來有些設施的但地方的需求告訴我們的需求第一個一清的很多還有就是\n\n29\n00:10:26,886 --> 00:10:40,937\n收容所收容的並不多就是組合物的需求並不高所以我們就沒有跟地方在座溝通說是不是一定要強制多這一項的選擇那現在想起來如果當初有一些組合物的構成的話也許在\n\n30\n00:10:42,316 --> 00:11:08,099\n搶修屋頂的過程當中會讓災民更能夠得到生活上的便利這是我們是跟地方討論的結果因為每個地方其實狀況都不太一樣就是比方說我提到我們的社區有人這樣提出來願意協助那有社區的災民說他想要這樣做但他不代表台南地區也是想要這樣高雄地區也想這樣甚至是海區跟山區都不一樣所以我提出來不是說我一定是對的我是說有這個聲音那我們可以把它\n\n31\n00:11:09,060 --> 00:11:30,240\n謝謝我們確實當時有討論到而且很深入去了解地方的需求謝謝院長那我希望未來可以把它納入這樣子的話我們可以從這次學到很多那我們下一次就可以快速的反應了解那再來就是說關於這個不出的申請那當然有很多長者我知道我們現在有各個不同的世代有史以來最多世代生活在一起就是現在這個世代\n\n32\n00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:59,493\n因為年齡我們的老齡化高齡化超高齡化所以是三四個不同世代的人同時出來這一切很多世代的還不見得熟悉用網路申請相關的機制所以院長是不是可以指示相關部會用主動訪試代為申請的機制比方說除了村里幹事之外包含讓這個招聘約聘式的專員來去主動協助弱勢的災民完成申請就是說我們的特別預算裡面是不是可以包含這個可能性\n\n33\n00:12:00,939 --> 00:12:22,274\n我很謝謝包括基層的村里幹事他們做了很多類似的工作也有很多社區的志工做了很多類似的工作那量能縱然有所不足未來我們如何在人力上再加以補充要讓這些比較年長者適應到現在的這個操縱的工具這個是我們在增進彼此中央跟人民之間溝通必要的一個考量我會讓他考量\n\n34\n00:12:22,574 --> 00:12:34,911\n好謝謝院長那我趕快再繼續接下來問一下關於這個接下來救災那國防部我看這個相關的這個國防部災害防救辦法裡面有包含預置兵力的選項預置兵力的選項\n\n35\n00:12:37,079 --> 00:12:47,974\n那這一次我必須要提到這一點的原因是因為每一次的狀況不同那我們是也可以請國防部的一起來共同來討論我們是不是可以預先因為這個選項裡面有包含預先將部隊進駐高風險抑制災的鄉鎮之外\n\n36\n00:12:53,061 --> 00:13:19,801\n那除了這個部分我想是不是預制一些相關的這些重機具裝備還有可能未來會真用的特別是提到這個是發電通信還有災後的防疫這些我們都預先先準備好因為有些時候我上次也提到就是在跟對交通部的質詢的時候就是許多的開口企業的廠商他們是要負責把道路清清完之後台電才可以進入電信業者可以進入但是他們本身在第一時間\n\n37\n00:13:20,982 --> 00:13:46,883\n要去執行這些清雲工程的人本身就已經受困了那他們又沒有衛星電話因為他們沒有像國軍一樣有那麼多的裝備所以第一時間把重要的主幹道讓這一些能夠第一線救災的人員至少能夠可以救災再去維護後面的復原就很重要所以這次是不是可以請國防部能夠預先把一些相關的機器裝備通訊等等的先預先準備好那等到地方通報的時候國防部就可以更快速的應處\n\n38\n00:13:48,514 --> 00:14:14,849\n謝謝委員的指導我想國防部在救災的工作上來講有預置兵力也就是說颱風如果侵襲20小時之內我們的所有兵力就要預置那在重要的像比如說土石流或是積水地區的話我們會提前36個小時佈置AV管就是陸戰隊兩棲登陸車那這個通常來講都是宜蘭花蓮或是蘇澳這個地區為居多\n\n39\n00:14:15,769 --> 00:14:38,607\n至於說委員講的發電機也好還有通信的衛星電話也好國防部都是在所有的救災部隊裡面是標準配備所以在這個預置兵力上來講國防部會持續的來加強這樣方面的準備工作這次可能會從東部然後就直接從嘉義台南這邊除非我們可能馬上就遇到這樣的問題再麻煩國防部能夠盡快跟我們來協助一下\n\n40\n00:14:39,347 --> 00:15:03,820\n接下來最後就是關於鄉鎮公所為什麼講到鄉鎮公所他們是第一線的人才他們第一線就要接災民的電話第一線就要處置負責補助等等的院長目前鄉鎮公所的委任官的比例限制是35%縣市政府已經下降到25%公所的組密值等大概是8到9課長是7到8所以這樣的值等是讓天花板等於是讓年輕的公務人員如果選擇在第一線的話他看不到升遷的未來\n\n41\n00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:24,455\n我是希望說能夠有機會的話讓相公所這一個層級因為他們必須要第一個地方去面對能夠檢討一下讓人事全面來檢討看看讓第一線做做多的人能夠得到相應的報酬這個部分再麻煩院長帶回去來討論一下好的對基層人員的鼓勵不應該只是說口頭好謝謝陳冠廷委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4929\t7066\t你好 我們請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n20305\t48439\t陳薇好 謝謝辛苦你了院長辛苦了院長剛才有提到這個政府的負債比率那我們稍微談一下負債比率因為這跟我們未來可能要舉在因應未來各個不同的氣候挑戰是有關的其實在一般的政府負債台灣是優於主要國家台灣目前是三成左右那得利於過去的稅務改革也是得利於過去的一些我們選擇用正確的方式用財政的手段去面對那相比之下美國是249\n50899\t78755\t美國是118%日本是249%所以比較起來我們的負債比例是相對安全的所以如果未來面臨氣候的挑戰當我們該舉債來去面對的話我大力的支持政府特別是行政院能夠編相關的預算我們一起來面對這樣子的挑戰所以這一次行政院通過的這個單大式颱風跟這個728豪雨災後的這個重建的特別預算這個條例基本上我們就是用我們的預算去做對的事情\n79275\t95853\t所以把農業設施、現金救助還有貸款利息我看到都有納入重建的項目這個地方我是給予肯定的但是執行的細節的方面特別是我們嘉義地區剛才有提到有很多農作物高經濟作物它是受到嚴重的創傷\n97074\t118212\t所以這一次的嘉義災情它是史無前例所以條例裡面第四條第二項它有授權各中央機關來去訂定補助方法院長有多次提到我們是要重優、重寬跟重數我就特別提到這個重優的部分這個原則農業部之前有來我們嘉義來勘災部長也有提到\n118872\t142287\t其實這一次的這個多年生的作物我特別提到多年生的作物就是說因為很多的因為風災它是連根拔起也就是說像是嘉義的像茶咖啡梅子荔枝龍眼還有這個樹葡萄等種類它是主幹它是這個主樹幹主幹或者是根系是連根拔起所以它影響的不是一級\n143322\t169345\t他影響的是三到五年的收成而且這一次是颱風來之後又好雨好雨來之後又颱風去年也有颱風所以過去一年今年到明年後年五年甚至是接下來六七年他們等於是全部都要在蒙受這個損失所以剛才有提到是產值跟成本成本的20%剛才部長有提到成本的20%我是很希望具體來說要考量到物價上漲還有\n170686\t195611\t多年生的這些作物的特性我是希望說能夠在納入這一次特別條例的考量的時候把它佐樣提升剛才提到的這一些我剛提到荔枝農園、茶、咖啡等等其實多品項的作物全部都面臨這樣子的問題包含香蕉也是部長上次來我們看到你來我們中府的時候那墾頓農民是欲哭無淚就是因為說他們需要足夠的成本來去反映然後我們如果只是用\n196651\t219643\t過去的20%而不是考量到今年去年跟明年這種物價非常快速的上漲的狀況的話我認為民眾是沒有辦法感受到的包含損農也是我幾乎每到一個地方每一位農民朋友們都跟我們說他不僅是青農老農全部都有這樣子的問題是不是可以請部長剛才您說會好好的去做審視是不是可以給我們簡單一個回應\n220783\t242728\t謝謝委員的這樣子的一個說明我想基本上我們農業部在做救災的時候就是一定要讓農民恢復信心能夠持續的在農業的經營這是我想我們最中最核心的一個價值所以我們在考慮這個農損的救助金因為農損的救助金在現在的法律都是用20的成本去計算那每一年我們都調一次\n243348\t271127\t但是條是針對相關的成本而上升的那我現在在考慮的是說我要不要鎖住這個20這個20到底有沒有道理所以我會用專案的方式來解決這樣的一個問題謝謝部長 就是用專案的方式那請把我剛才提到的多年生的作物那直接是連根拔起所以說這20%是不是反映到的是今年的20%因為它是等於是三五年 十年等於是一個長期的影響這個再麻煩部長能夠把它納入考量\n271727\t294289\t那院長再來就是跟針對這個山區的防災的整備特別是跟電力相關的那我就不再贅述因為這次三千多根電線趕倒塌然後近百萬戶停電那耗電的時間是非常長的我想提到這個山區的電網的部分針對山區的電網我想請教政府是不是有考慮推動微電網跟這個儲物能的機制\n296551\t322913\t那這些偏遠的社區它在主電網失效的時候至少在關鍵的基礎設施包含他們的當地的消防單位或者是這一個學校它能夠可以至少有一個微電網還有除電的機制讓他們能夠有機會在救助來之前能夠自己支出好 在答覆微電網我們的計畫之前容許給我一分鐘我談談我們的舉讚\n324847\t348515\t其實在去年520之前我跟總統在工作之前有個長談我們都認為我們要嚴守國家的財政紀律所以除了軍購等必要的預算之外我們希望能夠編正規的長年預算而不編特別預算我們也希望能夠降低國家舉債雖然我們現在還有餘裕的空間但是我們不是守成不變我們希望把\n349884\t374426\t舉在空間騰出來當國家有需要的時候我們有更多的力量來做所以今年的總預算我們雖然編了三兆以上但是有兩兆八百零九億它是新增的項目就是原來的預算當中我們是不允許隨意增加但新增項目是國家所需要所以新增的項目我們可以編進來但是不要在現有的無限給它膨脹\n375547\t397851\t是要壓低整個國家未來舉債的空間能夠讓它餘裕出來但是這一次我覺得有一點跟想法不一樣就是我們必須靠舉債來支應這個是特別條例靠舉債來支應包括發現金的這個方式但是這如果已經形成一種社會跟國會的期待跟要求我們只要改變我們的初衷\n398351\t425031\t但是我要說的是這跟原來我們在治理國家的方向上是截然不同的這是一個很大的心理的障礙但是我們願意把它突破舉債不舉債不是不做事是放在未來來做那現在如果已經到了這個時候我們就用舉債來幫助農民幫助國家這是因為去年院長你們選擇用嚴守財政機率所以我們才有餘裕來面對這次的挑戰所以這一次舉債是正確的\n425831\t440421\t未來局在 也是正確的如果要走未來去做修復我們的社區我認為這是正確的做法那剛剛委員所說的這個包括我們建制行動的通訊行動車還有建制移動式的發動機再來我們增加\n441101\t458921\t第二軌的這個高抗災性的基地台包括微波包括衛星等等都是未來我們在災區以及在增強韌性上面我們必須要去做的我也承認在這個過程當中我們在這次的韌性考驗上我們不足所以未來一定用比較大的\n460227\t476897\t這個政策跟財務的支持把這些部分給它迅速的強化起來院長我是說微電網就是說儲能就是社區比較偏遠的地方能夠有儲能的計畫微電網如果在一個地區裡面它有發電的設備 光電板但是因為停電它沒有辦法我們就用移動式的發電機\n478078\t493060\t跟這個銜接的方式讓他能夠提供給附近的業者能夠來使用那這個微電網的出現的建置能夠保持現在比較大型電網上安全上的不足的考量這個也是在相同的這個政策裡面來考量的\n494962\t508538\t報告委內政部這邊做一點補充就是說在院長的指示之下其實我們在相關的內政部的一些韌性計畫裡面我們也提了微電網社區的計畫也跟台電合作所以在未來我們會針對國內一百七十幾個抑制災的古島社區我們會協助他們評估\n514244\t528512\t是否進行相關的微電網設置特別是儲能的部分因為設置儲能還有一些小型的光電或者是小水利的系統協助社區一起來共同度過這樣的風險我特別要強調這個部分就是說因為道路\n533215\t550616\t要搶通之後那再來才會有電再來才會有訊號就是所謂的這個訊號所以我希望他們能夠自給自足的目的也是這樣子所以為什麼要有儲能也是希望有這樣子最基本他能夠我們會跟台電合作再麻煩一下還是麻煩就是說在我們山區有一個計畫就是說至少有幾個\n551597\t572308\t給自己一個數字好不好完成幾個數字那我們下次我們在特別是在我們梅山竹崎阿里山地區等到我們全部通過去的話他可能比較後期他們前期至少有能夠有微電網或者是儲能設備的話對他們會有一些很正面的幫助這個部分我們希望盡快盡速來麻煩那再來就是災民的安置那院長這一次的風災我看其實\n574332\t590228\t有很多年長的農民他不太願意到異地的收容所民間有提出一些其他的方案包含檢疫的住宅 臨時的住宅貨櫃屋 組合屋等等的就地安置的方向那我是不是可以請院長\n591585\t609643\t所以行政部門來考慮一下說是不是在災前我們就可以先完成一些開口契約的簽訂讓這個未來他們可以更就是說更快速更彈性的選擇他們的安置選項清單所以包含組合屋會櫃屋等等都是一個方向不知道院長怎麼看\n610063\t625419\t跟委員報告在颱風之後的幾天內我就向地方政府提出有沒有需求要用組合屋我們也找到一些能夠提供組合屋的業者跟原來有些設施的但地方的需求告訴我們的需求第一個一清的很多還有就是\n626886\t640937\t收容所收容的並不多就是組合物的需求並不高所以我們就沒有跟地方在座溝通說是不是一定要強制多這一項的選擇那現在想起來如果當初有一些組合物的構成的話也許在\n642316\t668099\t搶修屋頂的過程當中會讓災民更能夠得到生活上的便利這是我們是跟地方討論的結果因為每個地方其實狀況都不太一樣就是比方說我提到我們的社區有人這樣提出來願意協助那有社區的災民說他想要這樣做但他不代表台南地區也是想要這樣高雄地區也想這樣甚至是海區跟山區都不一樣所以我提出來不是說我一定是對的我是說有這個聲音那我們可以把它\n669060\t690240\t謝謝我們確實當時有討論到而且很深入去了解地方的需求謝謝院長那我希望未來可以把它納入這樣子的話我們可以從這次學到很多那我們下一次就可以快速的反應了解那再來就是說關於這個不出的申請那當然有很多長者我知道我們現在有各個不同的世代有史以來最多世代生活在一起就是現在這個世代\n691240\t719493\t因為年齡我們的老齡化 高齡化 超高齡化所以是三四個不同世代的人同時出來這一切很多世代的還不見得熟悉用網路申請相關的機制所以院長是不是可以指示相關部會用主動訪試代為申請的機制比方說除了村里幹事之外包含讓這個招聘 約聘式的專員來去主動協助弱勢的災民完成申請就是說我們的特別預算裡面是不是可以包含這個可能性\n720939\t742274\t我很謝謝包括基層的村里幹事他們做了很多類似的工作也有很多社區的志工做了很多類似的工作那量能縱然有所不足未來我們如何在人力上再加以補充要讓這些比較年長者適應到現在的這個操縱的工具這個是我們在增進彼此中央跟人民之間溝通必要的一個考量我會讓他考量\n742574\t754911\t好 謝謝院長那我趕快再繼續接下來問一下關於這個接下來救災那國防部我看這個相關的這個國防部災害防救辦法裡面有包含預置兵力的選項預置兵力的選項\n757079\t767974\t那這一次我必須要提到這一點的原因是因為每一次的狀況不同那我們是也可以請國防部的一起來共同來討論我們是不是可以預先因為這個選項裡面有包含預先將部隊進駐高風險抑制災的鄉鎮之外\n773061\t799801\t那除了這個部分我想是不是預制一些相關的這些重機具裝備還有可能未來會真用的特別是提到這個是發電 通信還有災後的防疫這些我們都預先先準備好因為有些時候我上次也提到就是在跟對交通部的質詢的時候就是許多的開口企業的廠商他們是要負責把道路清清完之後台電才可以進入電信業者可以進入但是他們本身在第一時間\n800982\t826883\t要去執行這些清雲工程的人本身就已經受困了那他們又沒有衛星電話因為他們沒有像國軍一樣有那麼多的裝備所以第一時間把重要的主幹道讓這一些能夠第一線救災的人員至少能夠可以救災再去維護後面的復原就很重要所以這次是不是可以請國防部能夠預先把一些相關的機器裝備通訊等等的先預先準備好那等到地方通報的時候國防部就可以更快速的應處\n828514\t854849\t謝謝委員的指導我想國防部在救災的工作上來講有預置兵力也就是說颱風如果侵襲20小時之內我們的所有兵力就要預置那在重要的像比如說土石流或是積水地區的話我們會提前36個小時佈置AV管就是陸戰隊兩棲登陸車那這個通常來講都是宜蘭 花蓮或是蘇澳這個地區為居多\n855769\t878607\t至於說委員講的發電機也好還有通信的衛星電話也好國防部都是在所有的救災部隊裡面是標準配備所以在這個預置兵力上來講國防部會持續的來加強這樣方面的準備工作這次可能會從東部然後就直接從嘉義台南這邊除非我們可能馬上就遇到這樣的問題再麻煩國防部能夠盡快跟我們來協助一下\n879347\t903820\t接下來最後就是關於鄉鎮公所為什麼講到鄉鎮公所他們是第一線的人才他們第一線就要接災民的電話第一線就要處置負責補助等等的院長目前鄉鎮公所的委任官的比例限制是35%縣市政府已經下降到25%公所的組密值等大概是8到9課長是7到8所以這樣的值等是讓天花板等於是讓年輕的公務人員如果選擇在第一線的話他看不到升遷的未來\n904640\t924455\t我是希望說能夠有機會的話讓相公所這一個層級因為他們必須要第一個地方去面對能夠檢討一下讓人事全面來檢討看看讓第一線做做多的人能夠得到相應的報酬這個部分再麻煩院長帶回去來討論一下好的 對基層人員的鼓勵不應該只是說口頭好 謝謝陳冠廷委員\n","txt":"你好 我們請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n陳薇好 謝謝辛苦你了院長辛苦了院長剛才有提到這個政府的負債比率那我們稍微談一下負債比率因為這跟我們未來可能要舉在因應未來各個不同的氣候挑戰是有關的其實在一般的政府負債台灣是優於主要國家台灣目前是三成左右那得利於過去的稅務改革也是得利於過去的一些我們選擇用正確的方式用財政的手段去面對那相比之下美國是249\n美國是118%日本是249%所以比較起來我們的負債比例是相對安全的所以如果未來面臨氣候的挑戰當我們該舉債來去面對的話我大力的支持政府特別是行政院能夠編相關的預算我們一起來面對這樣子的挑戰所以這一次行政院通過的這個單大式颱風跟這個728豪雨災後的這個重建的特別預算這個條例基本上我們就是用我們的預算去做對的事情\n所以把農業設施、現金救助還有貸款利息我看到都有納入重建的項目這個地方我是給予肯定的但是執行的細節的方面特別是我們嘉義地區剛才有提到有很多農作物高經濟作物它是受到嚴重的創傷\n所以這一次的嘉義災情它是史無前例所以條例裡面第四條第二項它有授權各中央機關來去訂定補助方法院長有多次提到我們是要重優、重寬跟重數我就特別提到這個重優的部分這個原則農業部之前有來我們嘉義來勘災部長也有提到\n其實這一次的這個多年生的作物我特別提到多年生的作物就是說因為很多的因為風災它是連根拔起也就是說像是嘉義的像茶咖啡梅子荔枝龍眼還有這個樹葡萄等種類它是主幹它是這個主樹幹主幹或者是根系是連根拔起所以它影響的不是一級\n他影響的是三到五年的收成而且這一次是颱風來之後又好雨好雨來之後又颱風去年也有颱風所以過去一年今年到明年後年五年甚至是接下來六七年他們等於是全部都要在蒙受這個損失所以剛才有提到是產值跟成本成本的20%剛才部長有提到成本的20%我是很希望具體來說要考量到物價上漲還有\n多年生的這些作物的特性我是希望說能夠在納入這一次特別條例的考量的時候把它佐樣提升剛才提到的這一些我剛提到荔枝農園、茶、咖啡等等其實多品項的作物全部都面臨這樣子的問題包含香蕉也是部長上次來我們看到你來我們中府的時候那墾頓農民是欲哭無淚就是因為說他們需要足夠的成本來去反映然後我們如果只是用\n過去的20%而不是考量到今年去年跟明年這種物價非常快速的上漲的狀況的話我認為民眾是沒有辦法感受到的包含損農也是我幾乎每到一個地方每一位農民朋友們都跟我們說他不僅是青農老農全部都有這樣子的問題是不是可以請部長剛才您說會好好的去做審視是不是可以給我們簡單一個回應\n謝謝委員的這樣子的一個說明我想基本上我們農業部在做救災的時候就是一定要讓農民恢復信心能夠持續的在農業的經營這是我想我們最中最核心的一個價值所以我們在考慮這個農損的救助金因為農損的救助金在現在的法律都是用20的成本去計算那每一年我們都調一次\n但是條是針對相關的成本而上升的那我現在在考慮的是說我要不要鎖住這個20這個20到底有沒有道理所以我會用專案的方式來解決這樣的一個問題謝謝部長 就是用專案的方式那請把我剛才提到的多年生的作物那直接是連根拔起所以說這20%是不是反映到的是今年的20%因為它是等於是三五年 十年等於是一個長期的影響這個再麻煩部長能夠把它納入考量\n那院長再來就是跟針對這個山區的防災的整備特別是跟電力相關的那我就不再贅述因為這次三千多根電線趕倒塌然後近百萬戶停電那耗電的時間是非常長的我想提到這個山區的電網的部分針對山區的電網我想請教政府是不是有考慮推動微電網跟這個儲物能的機制\n那這些偏遠的社區它在主電網失效的時候至少在關鍵的基礎設施包含他們的當地的消防單位或者是這一個學校它能夠可以至少有一個微電網還有除電的機制讓他們能夠有機會在救助來之前能夠自己支出好 在答覆微電網我們的計畫之前容許給我一分鐘我談談我們的舉讚\n其實在去年520之前我跟總統在工作之前有個長談我們都認為我們要嚴守國家的財政紀律所以除了軍購等必要的預算之外我們希望能夠編正規的長年預算而不編特別預算我們也希望能夠降低國家舉債雖然我們現在還有餘裕的空間但是我們不是守成不變我們希望把\n舉在空間騰出來當國家有需要的時候我們有更多的力量來做所以今年的總預算我們雖然編了三兆以上但是有兩兆八百零九億它是新增的項目就是原來的預算當中我們是不允許隨意增加但新增項目是國家所需要所以新增的項目我們可以編進來但是不要在現有的無限給它膨脹\n是要壓低整個國家未來舉債的空間能夠讓它餘裕出來但是這一次我覺得有一點跟想法不一樣就是我們必須靠舉債來支應這個是特別條例靠舉債來支應包括發現金的這個方式但是這如果已經形成一種社會跟國會的期待跟要求我們只要改變我們的初衷\n但是我要說的是這跟原來我們在治理國家的方向上是截然不同的這是一個很大的心理的障礙但是我們願意把它突破舉債不舉債不是不做事是放在未來來做那現在如果已經到了這個時候我們就用舉債來幫助農民幫助國家這是因為去年院長你們選擇用嚴守財政機率所以我們才有餘裕來面對這次的挑戰所以這一次舉債是正確的\n未來局在 也是正確的如果要走未來去做修復我們的社區我認為這是正確的做法那剛剛委員所說的這個包括我們建制行動的通訊行動車還有建制移動式的發動機再來我們增加\n第二軌的這個高抗災性的基地台包括微波包括衛星等等都是未來我們在災區以及在增強韌性上面我們必須要去做的我也承認在這個過程當中我們在這次的韌性考驗上我們不足所以未來一定用比較大的\n這個政策跟財務的支持把這些部分給它迅速的強化起來院長我是說微電網就是說儲能就是社區比較偏遠的地方能夠有儲能的計畫微電網如果在一個地區裡面它有發電的設備 光電板但是因為停電它沒有辦法我們就用移動式的發電機\n跟這個銜接的方式讓他能夠提供給附近的業者能夠來使用那這個微電網的出現的建置能夠保持現在比較大型電網上安全上的不足的考量這個也是在相同的這個政策裡面來考量的\n報告委內政部這邊做一點補充就是說在院長的指示之下其實我們在相關的內政部的一些韌性計畫裡面我們也提了微電網社區的計畫也跟台電合作所以在未來我們會針對國內一百七十幾個抑制災的古島社區我們會協助他們評估\n是否進行相關的微電網設置特別是儲能的部分因為設置儲能還有一些小型的光電或者是小水利的系統協助社區一起來共同度過這樣的風險我特別要強調這個部分就是說因為道路\n要搶通之後那再來才會有電再來才會有訊號就是所謂的這個訊號所以我希望他們能夠自給自足的目的也是這樣子所以為什麼要有儲能也是希望有這樣子最基本他能夠我們會跟台電合作再麻煩一下還是麻煩就是說在我們山區有一個計畫就是說至少有幾個\n給自己一個數字好不好完成幾個數字那我們下次我們在特別是在我們梅山竹崎阿里山地區等到我們全部通過去的話他可能比較後期他們前期至少有能夠有微電網或者是儲能設備的話對他們會有一些很正面的幫助這個部分我們希望盡快盡速來麻煩那再來就是災民的安置那院長這一次的風災我看其實\n有很多年長的農民他不太願意到異地的收容所民間有提出一些其他的方案包含檢疫的住宅 臨時的住宅貨櫃屋 組合屋等等的就地安置的方向那我是不是可以請院長\n所以行政部門來考慮一下說是不是在災前我們就可以先完成一些開口契約的簽訂讓這個未來他們可以更就是說更快速更彈性的選擇他們的安置選項清單所以包含組合屋會櫃屋等等都是一個方向不知道院長怎麼看\n跟委員報告在颱風之後的幾天內我就向地方政府提出有沒有需求要用組合屋我們也找到一些能夠提供組合屋的業者跟原來有些設施的但地方的需求告訴我們的需求第一個一清的很多還有就是\n收容所收容的並不多就是組合物的需求並不高所以我們就沒有跟地方在座溝通說是不是一定要強制多這一項的選擇那現在想起來如果當初有一些組合物的構成的話也許在\n搶修屋頂的過程當中會讓災民更能夠得到生活上的便利這是我們是跟地方討論的結果因為每個地方其實狀況都不太一樣就是比方說我提到我們的社區有人這樣提出來願意協助那有社區的災民說他想要這樣做但他不代表台南地區也是想要這樣高雄地區也想這樣甚至是海區跟山區都不一樣所以我提出來不是說我一定是對的我是說有這個聲音那我們可以把它\n謝謝我們確實當時有討論到而且很深入去了解地方的需求謝謝院長那我希望未來可以把它納入這樣子的話我們可以從這次學到很多那我們下一次就可以快速的反應了解那再來就是說關於這個不出的申請那當然有很多長者我知道我們現在有各個不同的世代有史以來最多世代生活在一起就是現在這個世代\n因為年齡我們的老齡化 高齡化 超高齡化所以是三四個不同世代的人同時出來這一切很多世代的還不見得熟悉用網路申請相關的機制所以院長是不是可以指示相關部會用主動訪試代為申請的機制比方說除了村里幹事之外包含讓這個招聘 約聘式的專員來去主動協助弱勢的災民完成申請就是說我們的特別預算裡面是不是可以包含這個可能性\n我很謝謝包括基層的村里幹事他們做了很多類似的工作也有很多社區的志工做了很多類似的工作那量能縱然有所不足未來我們如何在人力上再加以補充要讓這些比較年長者適應到現在的這個操縱的工具這個是我們在增進彼此中央跟人民之間溝通必要的一個考量我會讓他考量\n好 謝謝院長那我趕快再繼續接下來問一下關於這個接下來救災那國防部我看這個相關的這個國防部災害防救辦法裡面有包含預置兵力的選項預置兵力的選項\n那這一次我必須要提到這一點的原因是因為每一次的狀況不同那我們是也可以請國防部的一起來共同來討論我們是不是可以預先因為這個選項裡面有包含預先將部隊進駐高風險抑制災的鄉鎮之外\n那除了這個部分我想是不是預制一些相關的這些重機具裝備還有可能未來會真用的特別是提到這個是發電 通信還有災後的防疫這些我們都預先先準備好因為有些時候我上次也提到就是在跟對交通部的質詢的時候就是許多的開口企業的廠商他們是要負責把道路清清完之後台電才可以進入電信業者可以進入但是他們本身在第一時間\n要去執行這些清雲工程的人本身就已經受困了那他們又沒有衛星電話因為他們沒有像國軍一樣有那麼多的裝備所以第一時間把重要的主幹道讓這一些能夠第一線救災的人員至少能夠可以救災再去維護後面的復原就很重要所以這次是不是可以請國防部能夠預先把一些相關的機器裝備通訊等等的先預先準備好那等到地方通報的時候國防部就可以更快速的應處\n謝謝委員的指導我想國防部在救災的工作上來講有預置兵力也就是說颱風如果侵襲20小時之內我們的所有兵力就要預置那在重要的像比如說土石流或是積水地區的話我們會提前36個小時佈置AV管就是陸戰隊兩棲登陸車那這個通常來講都是宜蘭 花蓮或是蘇澳這個地區為居多\n至於說委員講的發電機也好還有通信的衛星電話也好國防部都是在所有的救災部隊裡面是標準配備所以在這個預置兵力上來講國防部會持續的來加強這樣方面的準備工作這次可能會從東部然後就直接從嘉義台南這邊除非我們可能馬上就遇到這樣的問題再麻煩國防部能夠盡快跟我們來協助一下\n接下來最後就是關於鄉鎮公所為什麼講到鄉鎮公所他們是第一線的人才他們第一線就要接災民的電話第一線就要處置負責補助等等的院長目前鄉鎮公所的委任官的比例限制是35%縣市政府已經下降到25%公所的組密值等大概是8到9課長是7到8所以這樣的值等是讓天花板等於是讓年輕的公務人員如果選擇在第一線的話他看不到升遷的未來\n我是希望說能夠有機會的話讓相公所這一個層級因為他們必須要第一個地方去面對能夠檢討一下讓人事全面來檢討看看讓第一線做做多的人能夠得到相應的報酬這個部分再麻煩院長帶回去來討論一下好的 對基層人員的鼓勵不應該只是說口頭好 謝謝陳冠廷委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.929 --> 00:07.066\n你好我們請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:20.305 --> 00:48.439\n陳薇好謝謝辛苦你了院長辛苦了院長剛才有提到這個政府的負債比率那我們稍微談一下負債比率因為這跟我們未來可能要舉在因應未來各個不同的氣候挑戰是有關的其實在一般的政府負債台灣是優於主要國家台灣目前是三成左右那得利於過去的稅務改革也是得利於過去的一些我們選擇用正確的方式用財政的手段去面對那相比之下美國是249\n\n00:50.899 --> 01:18.755\n美國是118%日本是249%所以比較起來我們的負債比例是相對安全的所以如果未來面臨氣候的挑戰當我們該舉債來去面對的話我大力的支持政府特別是行政院能夠編相關的預算我們一起來面對這樣子的挑戰所以這一次行政院通過的這個單大式颱風跟這個728豪雨災後的這個重建的特別預算這個條例基本上我們就是用我們的預算去做對的事情\n\n01:19.275 --> 01:35.853\n所以把農業設施、現金救助還有貸款利息我看到都有納入重建的項目這個地方我是給予肯定的但是執行的細節的方面特別是我們嘉義地區剛才有提到有很多農作物高經濟作物它是受到嚴重的創傷\n\n01:37.074 --> 01:58.212\n所以這一次的嘉義災情它是史無前例所以條例裡面第四條第二項它有授權各中央機關來去訂定補助方法院長有多次提到我們是要重優、重寬跟重數我就特別提到這個重優的部分這個原則農業部之前有來我們嘉義來勘災部長也有提到\n\n01:58.872 --> 02:22.287\n其實這一次的這個多年生的作物我特別提到多年生的作物就是說因為很多的因為風災它是連根拔起也就是說像是嘉義的像茶咖啡梅子荔枝龍眼還有這個樹葡萄等種類它是主幹它是這個主樹幹主幹或者是根系是連根拔起所以它影響的不是一級\n\n02:23.322 --> 02:49.345\n他影響的是三到五年的收成而且這一次是颱風來之後又好雨好雨來之後又颱風去年也有颱風所以過去一年今年到明年後年五年甚至是接下來六七年他們等於是全部都要在蒙受這個損失所以剛才有提到是產值跟成本成本的20%剛才部長有提到成本的20%我是很希望具體來說要考量到物價上漲還有\n\n02:50.686 --> 03:15.611\n多年生的這些作物的特性我是希望說能夠在納入這一次特別條例的考量的時候把它佐樣提升剛才提到的這一些我剛提到荔枝農園、茶、咖啡等等其實多品項的作物全部都面臨這樣子的問題包含香蕉也是部長上次來我們看到你來我們中府的時候那墾頓農民是欲哭無淚就是因為說他們需要足夠的成本來去反映然後我們如果只是用\n\n03:16.651 --> 03:39.643\n過去的20%而不是考量到今年去年跟明年這種物價非常快速的上漲的狀況的話我認為民眾是沒有辦法感受到的包含損農也是我幾乎每到一個地方每一位農民朋友們都跟我們說他不僅是青農老農全部都有這樣子的問題是不是可以請部長剛才您說會好好的去做審視是不是可以給我們簡單一個回應\n\n03:40.783 --> 04:02.728\n謝謝委員的這樣子的一個說明我想基本上我們農業部在做救災的時候就是一定要讓農民恢復信心能夠持續的在農業的經營這是我想我們最中最核心的一個價值所以我們在考慮這個農損的救助金因為農損的救助金在現在的法律都是用20的成本去計算那每一年我們都調一次\n\n04:03.348 --> 04:31.127\n但是條是針對相關的成本而上升的那我現在在考慮的是說我要不要鎖住這個20這個20到底有沒有道理所以我會用專案的方式來解決這樣的一個問題謝謝部長就是用專案的方式那請把我剛才提到的多年生的作物那直接是連根拔起所以說這20%是不是反映到的是今年的20%因為它是等於是三五年十年等於是一個長期的影響這個再麻煩部長能夠把它納入考量\n\n04:31.727 --> 04:54.289\n那院長再來就是跟針對這個山區的防災的整備特別是跟電力相關的那我就不再贅述因為這次三千多根電線趕倒塌然後近百萬戶停電那耗電的時間是非常長的我想提到這個山區的電網的部分針對山區的電網我想請教政府是不是有考慮推動微電網跟這個儲物能的機制\n\n04:56.551 --> 05:22.913\n那這些偏遠的社區它在主電網失效的時候至少在關鍵的基礎設施包含他們的當地的消防單位或者是這一個學校它能夠可以至少有一個微電網還有除電的機制讓他們能夠有機會在救助來之前能夠自己支出好在答覆微電網我們的計畫之前容許給我一分鐘我談談我們的舉讚\n\n05:24.847 --> 05:48.515\n其實在去年520之前我跟總統在工作之前有個長談我們都認為我們要嚴守國家的財政紀律所以除了軍購等必要的預算之外我們希望能夠編正規的長年預算而不編特別預算我們也希望能夠降低國家舉債雖然我們現在還有餘裕的空間但是我們不是守成不變我們希望把\n\n05:49.884 --> 06:14.426\n舉在空間騰出來當國家有需要的時候我們有更多的力量來做所以今年的總預算我們雖然編了三兆以上但是有兩兆八百零九億它是新增的項目就是原來的預算當中我們是不允許隨意增加但新增項目是國家所需要所以新增的項目我們可以編進來但是不要在現有的無限給它膨脹\n\n06:15.547 --> 06:37.851\n是要壓低整個國家未來舉債的空間能夠讓它餘裕出來但是這一次我覺得有一點跟想法不一樣就是我們必須靠舉債來支應這個是特別條例靠舉債來支應包括發現金的這個方式但是這如果已經形成一種社會跟國會的期待跟要求我們只要改變我們的初衷\n\n06:38.351 --> 07:05.031\n但是我要說的是這跟原來我們在治理國家的方向上是截然不同的這是一個很大的心理的障礙但是我們願意把它突破舉債不舉債不是不做事是放在未來來做那現在如果已經到了這個時候我們就用舉債來幫助農民幫助國家這是因為去年院長你們選擇用嚴守財政機率所以我們才有餘裕來面對這次的挑戰所以這一次舉債是正確的\n\n07:05.831 --> 07:20.421\n未來局在也是正確的如果要走未來去做修復我們的社區我認為這是正確的做法那剛剛委員所說的這個包括我們建制行動的通訊行動車還有建制移動式的發動機再來我們增加\n\n07:21.101 --> 07:38.921\n第二軌的這個高抗災性的基地台包括微波包括衛星等等都是未來我們在災區以及在增強韌性上面我們必須要去做的我也承認在這個過程當中我們在這次的韌性考驗上我們不足所以未來一定用比較大的\n\n07:40.227 --> 07:56.897\n這個政策跟財務的支持把這些部分給它迅速的強化起來院長我是說微電網就是說儲能就是社區比較偏遠的地方能夠有儲能的計畫微電網如果在一個地區裡面它有發電的設備光電板但是因為停電它沒有辦法我們就用移動式的發電機\n\n07:58.078 --> 08:13.060\n跟這個銜接的方式讓他能夠提供給附近的業者能夠來使用那這個微電網的出現的建置能夠保持現在比較大型電網上安全上的不足的考量這個也是在相同的這個政策裡面來考量的\n\n08:14.962 --> 08:28.538\n報告委內政部這邊做一點補充就是說在院長的指示之下其實我們在相關的內政部的一些韌性計畫裡面我們也提了微電網社區的計畫也跟台電合作所以在未來我們會針對國內一百七十幾個抑制災的古島社區我們會協助他們評估\n\n08:34.244 --> 08:48.512\n是否進行相關的微電網設置特別是儲能的部分因為設置儲能還有一些小型的光電或者是小水利的系統協助社區一起來共同度過這樣的風險我特別要強調這個部分就是說因為道路\n\n08:53.215 --> 09:10.616\n要搶通之後那再來才會有電再來才會有訊號就是所謂的這個訊號所以我希望他們能夠自給自足的目的也是這樣子所以為什麼要有儲能也是希望有這樣子最基本他能夠我們會跟台電合作再麻煩一下還是麻煩就是說在我們山區有一個計畫就是說至少有幾個\n\n09:11.597 --> 09:32.308\n給自己一個數字好不好完成幾個數字那我們下次我們在特別是在我們梅山竹崎阿里山地區等到我們全部通過去的話他可能比較後期他們前期至少有能夠有微電網或者是儲能設備的話對他們會有一些很正面的幫助這個部分我們希望盡快盡速來麻煩那再來就是災民的安置那院長這一次的風災我看其實\n\n09:34.332 --> 09:50.228\n有很多年長的農民他不太願意到異地的收容所民間有提出一些其他的方案包含檢疫的住宅臨時的住宅貨櫃屋組合屋等等的就地安置的方向那我是不是可以請院長\n\n09:51.585 --> 10:09.643\n所以行政部門來考慮一下說是不是在災前我們就可以先完成一些開口契約的簽訂讓這個未來他們可以更就是說更快速更彈性的選擇他們的安置選項清單所以包含組合屋會櫃屋等等都是一個方向不知道院長怎麼看\n\n10:10.063 --> 10:25.419\n跟委員報告在颱風之後的幾天內我就向地方政府提出有沒有需求要用組合屋我們也找到一些能夠提供組合屋的業者跟原來有些設施的但地方的需求告訴我們的需求第一個一清的很多還有就是\n\n10:26.886 --> 10:40.937\n收容所收容的並不多就是組合物的需求並不高所以我們就沒有跟地方在座溝通說是不是一定要強制多這一項的選擇那現在想起來如果當初有一些組合物的構成的話也許在\n\n10:42.316 --> 11:08.099\n搶修屋頂的過程當中會讓災民更能夠得到生活上的便利這是我們是跟地方討論的結果因為每個地方其實狀況都不太一樣就是比方說我提到我們的社區有人這樣提出來願意協助那有社區的災民說他想要這樣做但他不代表台南地區也是想要這樣高雄地區也想這樣甚至是海區跟山區都不一樣所以我提出來不是說我一定是對的我是說有這個聲音那我們可以把它\n\n11:09.060 --> 11:30.240\n謝謝我們確實當時有討論到而且很深入去了解地方的需求謝謝院長那我希望未來可以把它納入這樣子的話我們可以從這次學到很多那我們下一次就可以快速的反應了解那再來就是說關於這個不出的申請那當然有很多長者我知道我們現在有各個不同的世代有史以來最多世代生活在一起就是現在這個世代\n\n11:31.240 --> 11:59.493\n因為年齡我們的老齡化高齡化超高齡化所以是三四個不同世代的人同時出來這一切很多世代的還不見得熟悉用網路申請相關的機制所以院長是不是可以指示相關部會用主動訪試代為申請的機制比方說除了村里幹事之外包含讓這個招聘約聘式的專員來去主動協助弱勢的災民完成申請就是說我們的特別預算裡面是不是可以包含這個可能性\n\n12:00.939 --> 12:22.274\n我很謝謝包括基層的村里幹事他們做了很多類似的工作也有很多社區的志工做了很多類似的工作那量能縱然有所不足未來我們如何在人力上再加以補充要讓這些比較年長者適應到現在的這個操縱的工具這個是我們在增進彼此中央跟人民之間溝通必要的一個考量我會讓他考量\n\n12:22.574 --> 12:34.911\n好謝謝院長那我趕快再繼續接下來問一下關於這個接下來救災那國防部我看這個相關的這個國防部災害防救辦法裡面有包含預置兵力的選項預置兵力的選項\n\n12:37.079 --> 12:47.974\n那這一次我必須要提到這一點的原因是因為每一次的狀況不同那我們是也可以請國防部的一起來共同來討論我們是不是可以預先因為這個選項裡面有包含預先將部隊進駐高風險抑制災的鄉鎮之外\n\n12:53.061 --> 13:19.801\n那除了這個部分我想是不是預制一些相關的這些重機具裝備還有可能未來會真用的特別是提到這個是發電通信還有災後的防疫這些我們都預先先準備好因為有些時候我上次也提到就是在跟對交通部的質詢的時候就是許多的開口企業的廠商他們是要負責把道路清清完之後台電才可以進入電信業者可以進入但是他們本身在第一時間\n\n13:20.982 --> 13:46.883\n要去執行這些清雲工程的人本身就已經受困了那他們又沒有衛星電話因為他們沒有像國軍一樣有那麼多的裝備所以第一時間把重要的主幹道讓這一些能夠第一線救災的人員至少能夠可以救災再去維護後面的復原就很重要所以這次是不是可以請國防部能夠預先把一些相關的機器裝備通訊等等的先預先準備好那等到地方通報的時候國防部就可以更快速的應處\n\n13:48.514 --> 14:14.849\n謝謝委員的指導我想國防部在救災的工作上來講有預置兵力也就是說颱風如果侵襲20小時之內我們的所有兵力就要預置那在重要的像比如說土石流或是積水地區的話我們會提前36個小時佈置AV管就是陸戰隊兩棲登陸車那這個通常來講都是宜蘭花蓮或是蘇澳這個地區為居多\n\n14:15.769 --> 14:38.607\n至於說委員講的發電機也好還有通信的衛星電話也好國防部都是在所有的救災部隊裡面是標準配備所以在這個預置兵力上來講國防部會持續的來加強這樣方面的準備工作這次可能會從東部然後就直接從嘉義台南這邊除非我們可能馬上就遇到這樣的問題再麻煩國防部能夠盡快跟我們來協助一下\n\n14:39.347 --> 15:03.820\n接下來最後就是關於鄉鎮公所為什麼講到鄉鎮公所他們是第一線的人才他們第一線就要接災民的電話第一線就要處置負責補助等等的院長目前鄉鎮公所的委任官的比例限制是35%縣市政府已經下降到25%公所的組密值等大概是8到9課長是7到8所以這樣的值等是讓天花板等於是讓年輕的公務人員如果選擇在第一線的話他看不到升遷的未來\n\n15:04.640 --> 15:24.455\n我是希望說能夠有機會的話讓相公所這一個層級因為他們必須要第一個地方去面對能夠檢討一下讓人事全面來檢討看看讓第一線做做多的人能夠得到相應的報酬這個部分再麻煩院長帶回去來討論一下好的對基層人員的鼓勵不應該只是說口頭好謝謝陳冠廷委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.929,"end":7.066,"text":"你好 我們請院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":20.305,"end":48.439,"text":"陳薇好 謝謝辛苦你了院長辛苦了院長剛才有提到這個政府的負債比率那我們稍微談一下負債比率因為這跟我們未來可能要舉在因應未來各個不同的氣候挑戰是有關的其實在一般的政府負債台灣是優於主要國家台灣目前是三成左右那得利於過去的稅務改革也是得利於過去的一些我們選擇用正確的方式用財政的手段去面對那相比之下美國是249"},{"start":50.899,"end":78.755,"text":"美國是118%日本是249%所以比較起來我們的負債比例是相對安全的所以如果未來面臨氣候的挑戰當我們該舉債來去面對的話我大力的支持政府特別是行政院能夠編相關的預算我們一起來面對這樣子的挑戰所以這一次行政院通過的這個單大式颱風跟這個728豪雨災後的這個重建的特別預算這個條例基本上我們就是用我們的預算去做對的事情"},{"start":79.275,"end":95.853,"text":"所以把農業設施、現金救助還有貸款利息我看到都有納入重建的項目這個地方我是給予肯定的但是執行的細節的方面特別是我們嘉義地區剛才有提到有很多農作物高經濟作物它是受到嚴重的創傷"},{"start":97.074,"end":118.212,"text":"所以這一次的嘉義災情它是史無前例所以條例裡面第四條第二項它有授權各中央機關來去訂定補助方法院長有多次提到我們是要重優、重寬跟重數我就特別提到這個重優的部分這個原則農業部之前有來我們嘉義來勘災部長也有提到"},{"start":118.872,"end":142.287,"text":"其實這一次的這個多年生的作物我特別提到多年生的作物就是說因為很多的因為風災它是連根拔起也就是說像是嘉義的像茶咖啡梅子荔枝龍眼還有這個樹葡萄等種類它是主幹它是這個主樹幹主幹或者是根系是連根拔起所以它影響的不是一級"},{"start":143.322,"end":169.345,"text":"他影響的是三到五年的收成而且這一次是颱風來之後又好雨好雨來之後又颱風去年也有颱風所以過去一年今年到明年後年五年甚至是接下來六七年他們等於是全部都要在蒙受這個損失所以剛才有提到是產值跟成本成本的20%剛才部長有提到成本的20%我是很希望具體來說要考量到物價上漲還有"},{"start":170.686,"end":195.611,"text":"多年生的這些作物的特性我是希望說能夠在納入這一次特別條例的考量的時候把它佐樣提升剛才提到的這一些我剛提到荔枝農園、茶、咖啡等等其實多品項的作物全部都面臨這樣子的問題包含香蕉也是部長上次來我們看到你來我們中府的時候那墾頓農民是欲哭無淚就是因為說他們需要足夠的成本來去反映然後我們如果只是用"},{"start":196.651,"end":219.643,"text":"過去的20%而不是考量到今年去年跟明年這種物價非常快速的上漲的狀況的話我認為民眾是沒有辦法感受到的包含損農也是我幾乎每到一個地方每一位農民朋友們都跟我們說他不僅是青農老農全部都有這樣子的問題是不是可以請部長剛才您說會好好的去做審視是不是可以給我們簡單一個回應"},{"start":220.783,"end":242.728,"text":"謝謝委員的這樣子的一個說明我想基本上我們農業部在做救災的時候就是一定要讓農民恢復信心能夠持續的在農業的經營這是我想我們最中最核心的一個價值所以我們在考慮這個農損的救助金因為農損的救助金在現在的法律都是用20的成本去計算那每一年我們都調一次"},{"start":243.348,"end":271.127,"text":"但是條是針對相關的成本而上升的那我現在在考慮的是說我要不要鎖住這個20這個20到底有沒有道理所以我會用專案的方式來解決這樣的一個問題謝謝部長 就是用專案的方式那請把我剛才提到的多年生的作物那直接是連根拔起所以說這20%是不是反映到的是今年的20%因為它是等於是三五年 十年等於是一個長期的影響這個再麻煩部長能夠把它納入考量"},{"start":271.727,"end":294.289,"text":"那院長再來就是跟針對這個山區的防災的整備特別是跟電力相關的那我就不再贅述因為這次三千多根電線趕倒塌然後近百萬戶停電那耗電的時間是非常長的我想提到這個山區的電網的部分針對山區的電網我想請教政府是不是有考慮推動微電網跟這個儲物能的機制"},{"start":296.551,"end":322.913,"text":"那這些偏遠的社區它在主電網失效的時候至少在關鍵的基礎設施包含他們的當地的消防單位或者是這一個學校它能夠可以至少有一個微電網還有除電的機制讓他們能夠有機會在救助來之前能夠自己支出好 在答覆微電網我們的計畫之前容許給我一分鐘我談談我們的舉讚"},{"start":324.847,"end":348.515,"text":"其實在去年520之前我跟總統在工作之前有個長談我們都認為我們要嚴守國家的財政紀律所以除了軍購等必要的預算之外我們希望能夠編正規的長年預算而不編特別預算我們也希望能夠降低國家舉債雖然我們現在還有餘裕的空間但是我們不是守成不變我們希望把"},{"start":349.884,"end":374.426,"text":"舉在空間騰出來當國家有需要的時候我們有更多的力量來做所以今年的總預算我們雖然編了三兆以上但是有兩兆八百零九億它是新增的項目就是原來的預算當中我們是不允許隨意增加但新增項目是國家所需要所以新增的項目我們可以編進來但是不要在現有的無限給它膨脹"},{"start":375.547,"end":397.851,"text":"是要壓低整個國家未來舉債的空間能夠讓它餘裕出來但是這一次我覺得有一點跟想法不一樣就是我們必須靠舉債來支應這個是特別條例靠舉債來支應包括發現金的這個方式但是這如果已經形成一種社會跟國會的期待跟要求我們只要改變我們的初衷"},{"start":398.351,"end":425.031,"text":"但是我要說的是這跟原來我們在治理國家的方向上是截然不同的這是一個很大的心理的障礙但是我們願意把它突破舉債不舉債不是不做事是放在未來來做那現在如果已經到了這個時候我們就用舉債來幫助農民幫助國家這是因為去年院長你們選擇用嚴守財政機率所以我們才有餘裕來面對這次的挑戰所以這一次舉債是正確的"},{"start":425.831,"end":440.421,"text":"未來局在 也是正確的如果要走未來去做修復我們的社區我認為這是正確的做法那剛剛委員所說的這個包括我們建制行動的通訊行動車還有建制移動式的發動機再來我們增加"},{"start":441.101,"end":458.921,"text":"第二軌的這個高抗災性的基地台包括微波包括衛星等等都是未來我們在災區以及在增強韌性上面我們必須要去做的我也承認在這個過程當中我們在這次的韌性考驗上我們不足所以未來一定用比較大的"},{"start":460.227,"end":476.897,"text":"這個政策跟財務的支持把這些部分給它迅速的強化起來院長我是說微電網就是說儲能就是社區比較偏遠的地方能夠有儲能的計畫微電網如果在一個地區裡面它有發電的設備 光電板但是因為停電它沒有辦法我們就用移動式的發電機"},{"start":478.078,"end":493.06,"text":"跟這個銜接的方式讓他能夠提供給附近的業者能夠來使用那這個微電網的出現的建置能夠保持現在比較大型電網上安全上的不足的考量這個也是在相同的這個政策裡面來考量的"},{"start":494.962,"end":508.538,"text":"報告委內政部這邊做一點補充就是說在院長的指示之下其實我們在相關的內政部的一些韌性計畫裡面我們也提了微電網社區的計畫也跟台電合作所以在未來我們會針對國內一百七十幾個抑制災的古島社區我們會協助他們評估"},{"start":514.244,"end":528.512,"text":"是否進行相關的微電網設置特別是儲能的部分因為設置儲能還有一些小型的光電或者是小水利的系統協助社區一起來共同度過這樣的風險我特別要強調這個部分就是說因為道路"},{"start":533.215,"end":550.616,"text":"要搶通之後那再來才會有電再來才會有訊號就是所謂的這個訊號所以我希望他們能夠自給自足的目的也是這樣子所以為什麼要有儲能也是希望有這樣子最基本他能夠我們會跟台電合作再麻煩一下還是麻煩就是說在我們山區有一個計畫就是說至少有幾個"},{"start":551.597,"end":572.308,"text":"給自己一個數字好不好完成幾個數字那我們下次我們在特別是在我們梅山竹崎阿里山地區等到我們全部通過去的話他可能比較後期他們前期至少有能夠有微電網或者是儲能設備的話對他們會有一些很正面的幫助這個部分我們希望盡快盡速來麻煩那再來就是災民的安置那院長這一次的風災我看其實"},{"start":574.332,"end":590.228,"text":"有很多年長的農民他不太願意到異地的收容所民間有提出一些其他的方案包含檢疫的住宅 臨時的住宅貨櫃屋 組合屋等等的就地安置的方向那我是不是可以請院長"},{"start":591.585,"end":609.643,"text":"所以行政部門來考慮一下說是不是在災前我們就可以先完成一些開口契約的簽訂讓這個未來他們可以更就是說更快速更彈性的選擇他們的安置選項清單所以包含組合屋會櫃屋等等都是一個方向不知道院長怎麼看"},{"start":610.063,"end":625.419,"text":"跟委員報告在颱風之後的幾天內我就向地方政府提出有沒有需求要用組合屋我們也找到一些能夠提供組合屋的業者跟原來有些設施的但地方的需求告訴我們的需求第一個一清的很多還有就是"},{"start":626.886,"end":640.937,"text":"收容所收容的並不多就是組合物的需求並不高所以我們就沒有跟地方在座溝通說是不是一定要強制多這一項的選擇那現在想起來如果當初有一些組合物的構成的話也許在"},{"start":642.316,"end":668.099,"text":"搶修屋頂的過程當中會讓災民更能夠得到生活上的便利這是我們是跟地方討論的結果因為每個地方其實狀況都不太一樣就是比方說我提到我們的社區有人這樣提出來願意協助那有社區的災民說他想要這樣做但他不代表台南地區也是想要這樣高雄地區也想這樣甚至是海區跟山區都不一樣所以我提出來不是說我一定是對的我是說有這個聲音那我們可以把它"},{"start":669.06,"end":690.24,"text":"謝謝我們確實當時有討論到而且很深入去了解地方的需求謝謝院長那我希望未來可以把它納入這樣子的話我們可以從這次學到很多那我們下一次就可以快速的反應了解那再來就是說關於這個不出的申請那當然有很多長者我知道我們現在有各個不同的世代有史以來最多世代生活在一起就是現在這個世代"},{"start":691.24,"end":719.493,"text":"因為年齡我們的老齡化 高齡化 超高齡化所以是三四個不同世代的人同時出來這一切很多世代的還不見得熟悉用網路申請相關的機制所以院長是不是可以指示相關部會用主動訪試代為申請的機制比方說除了村里幹事之外包含讓這個招聘 約聘式的專員來去主動協助弱勢的災民完成申請就是說我們的特別預算裡面是不是可以包含這個可能性"},{"start":720.939,"end":742.274,"text":"我很謝謝包括基層的村里幹事他們做了很多類似的工作也有很多社區的志工做了很多類似的工作那量能縱然有所不足未來我們如何在人力上再加以補充要讓這些比較年長者適應到現在的這個操縱的工具這個是我們在增進彼此中央跟人民之間溝通必要的一個考量我會讓他考量"},{"start":742.574,"end":754.911,"text":"好 謝謝院長那我趕快再繼續接下來問一下關於這個接下來救災那國防部我看這個相關的這個國防部災害防救辦法裡面有包含預置兵力的選項預置兵力的選項"},{"start":757.079,"end":767.974,"text":"那這一次我必須要提到這一點的原因是因為每一次的狀況不同那我們是也可以請國防部的一起來共同來討論我們是不是可以預先因為這個選項裡面有包含預先將部隊進駐高風險抑制災的鄉鎮之外"},{"start":773.061,"end":799.801,"text":"那除了這個部分我想是不是預制一些相關的這些重機具裝備還有可能未來會真用的特別是提到這個是發電 通信還有災後的防疫這些我們都預先先準備好因為有些時候我上次也提到就是在跟對交通部的質詢的時候就是許多的開口企業的廠商他們是要負責把道路清清完之後台電才可以進入電信業者可以進入但是他們本身在第一時間"},{"start":800.982,"end":826.883,"text":"要去執行這些清雲工程的人本身就已經受困了那他們又沒有衛星電話因為他們沒有像國軍一樣有那麼多的裝備所以第一時間把重要的主幹道讓這一些能夠第一線救災的人員至少能夠可以救災再去維護後面的復原就很重要所以這次是不是可以請國防部能夠預先把一些相關的機器裝備通訊等等的先預先準備好那等到地方通報的時候國防部就可以更快速的應處"},{"start":828.514,"end":854.849,"text":"謝謝委員的指導我想國防部在救災的工作上來講有預置兵力也就是說颱風如果侵襲20小時之內我們的所有兵力就要預置那在重要的像比如說土石流或是積水地區的話我們會提前36個小時佈置AV管就是陸戰隊兩棲登陸車那這個通常來講都是宜蘭 花蓮或是蘇澳這個地區為居多"},{"start":855.769,"end":878.607,"text":"至於說委員講的發電機也好還有通信的衛星電話也好國防部都是在所有的救災部隊裡面是標準配備所以在這個預置兵力上來講國防部會持續的來加強這樣方面的準備工作這次可能會從東部然後就直接從嘉義台南這邊除非我們可能馬上就遇到這樣的問題再麻煩國防部能夠盡快跟我們來協助一下"},{"start":879.347,"end":903.82,"text":"接下來最後就是關於鄉鎮公所為什麼講到鄉鎮公所他們是第一線的人才他們第一線就要接災民的電話第一線就要處置負責補助等等的院長目前鄉鎮公所的委任官的比例限制是35%縣市政府已經下降到25%公所的組密值等大概是8到9課長是7到8所以這樣的值等是讓天花板等於是讓年輕的公務人員如果選擇在第一線的話他看不到升遷的未來"},{"start":904.64,"end":924.455,"text":"我是希望說能夠有機會的話讓相公所這一個層級因為他們必須要第一個地方去面對能夠檢討一下讓人事全面來檢討看看讓第一線做做多的人能夠得到相應的報酬這個部分再麻煩院長帶回去來討論一下好的 對基層人員的鼓勵不應該只是說口頭好 謝謝陳冠廷委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":432,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（16時18分）你好，我們請院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好，謝謝，辛苦你了。"],["陳委員冠廷：院長辛苦了。院長剛才有提到政府的負債比率，我們稍微談一下負債比率，因為這跟我們未來可能要舉債因應各種不同的氣候挑戰是有關的，其實在一般的政府負債，臺灣是優於主要國家，目前是三成左右，得力於過去的稅務改革，也是得力於過去我們選擇用正確方式的財政手段去面對。相比之下，美國是118%，日本是249%，所以比較起來，我們的負債比例是相對安全的，因此如果未來面臨到氣候的挑戰，當我們該舉債去面對，我大力地支持政府，特別是行政院能夠編相關的預算，我們一起來面對這樣的挑戰。","所以這一次行政院通過的丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後重建的特別預算條例，基本上就是用我們的預算去做對的事情，對於農業設施、現金救助還有貸款利息，我看到這些都有納入重建的項目，這個部分我是給予認定的，但是在執行細節方面，特別是我們嘉義地區，剛才有提到很多農作物、高經濟作物受到嚴重的創傷，這一次的嘉義災情是史無前例，所以條例裡面第四條第二項有授權各中央機關訂定補助方法，院長有多次提到要從優、從寬跟從速，我就特別提到從優部分的原則。","農業部之前有來我們嘉義勘災，部長也有提到，其實這一次關於多年生的作物，我特別提到多年生的作物就是因為風災過後很多是連根拔起，像是嘉義的茶、咖啡、梅子、荔枝、龍眼、樹葡萄等種類，它是主樹幹或者根系連根拔起，所以它影響的不是1季，它影響的是3到5年的收成，而且這一次是颱風來之後又豪雨、豪雨來之後又颱風，去年也有颱風，所以過去1年、今年到明年、後年、5年，甚至是接下來的6、7年，他們等於是全部都要再蒙受這個損失。","剛才有提到產值跟成本、部長有提到成本的20%，具體來說，要考量到物價上漲還有這些多年生作物的特性，我希望納入這一次特別條例考量時把它酌量提升，關於我剛剛提到的荔枝、龍眼、茶、咖啡等等，其實多品項的作物全部都面臨這樣子的問題，包含香蕉也是，上次部長來我們中埔的時候，很多農民欲哭無淚，就是因為他們需要足夠的成本去反映，我們如果只是用過去的20%，而不是考量到今年、去年跟明年這種物價非常快速上漲的狀況，我認為民眾是沒有辦法感受到的。包含筍農也是，我幾乎每到一個地方，每一位農民朋友們都跟我們說，他們不論是青農、老農全部都有這樣子的問題，剛才部長說會好好的審視，是不是可以請你給我們一個簡單的回應？"],["陳部長駿季：謝謝委員的說明，基本上，農業部在救災的時候就一定要讓農民恢復信心、能夠持續在農業的經營，這是我們最核心的一個價值，所以我們在考慮農損救助金的時候，現在的法律都是用20%的成本去計算，每一年我們都調一次，但是調整是針對相關成本而上升的。我現在考慮的是，我要不要鎖住這個20%、這個20%到底有沒有道理？所以我會用專案的方式來解決這個問題。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝部長，就是用專案的方式，請把我剛才提到的多年生作物……"],["陳部長駿季：這部分我們會一併處理。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為這部分是直接連根拔起，所以這20%反映到的是不是今年的20%？因為這等於是3、5、10年長期的影響，這部分再麻煩部長能夠納入考量。","院長，再來就是針對山區的防災整備，特別是跟電力相關的，我就不再贅述這次三千多根電線桿倒塌、近百萬戶停電，復電的時間是非常長的。針對山區的電網，我想請教政府是不是有考慮推動微電網跟儲能的機制？讓這些偏遠社區在主電網失效的時候，至少在關鍵的基礎設施，包含當地的消防單位或者學校能夠至少有一個微電網、有儲電的機制，讓他們有機會在救助來之前能夠自給自足？"],["卓院長榮泰：在答復我們的微電網計畫之前，容許給我1分鐘談談我們的舉債。其實在去年520之前，我跟總統在工作之前有個長談，我們都認為要嚴守國家的財政紀律，所以除了軍購等必要的預算之外，我們希望能夠編正規的長年預算而不編特別預算，我們也希望能夠降低國家舉債，雖然我們現在還有餘裕的空間，但是我們不是守成不變，我們希望把舉債空間騰出來，當國家有需要的時候，我們有更多的力量來做。所以今年的總預算我們雖然編了3兆以上，但是有2兆809億是新增的項目，就是在原來的預算當中我們不允許隨意增加，但新增項目是國家所需要的，所以新增的項目我們可以編進來，但是現有的不要再無限膨脹，這是要壓低整個國家未來舉債的空間、能夠有餘裕出來。但是這一次我覺得想法有一點不一樣，就是我們必須靠舉債來支應特別條例，靠舉債來支應，包括發現金的方式，但是這如果已經形成一種社會跟國會的期待跟要求，我們就要改變我們的初衷，但是我要說的是，這跟原來我們在治理國家的方向上是截然不同的，這是一個很大的心理障礙，但是我們願意把它突破。不舉債不是不做事，是放在未來來做，現在如果已經到了這個時候，我們就用舉債來幫助農民、幫助國家。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為去年院長你們選擇嚴守財政紀律，所以我們才有餘裕來面對這次的挑戰。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以這一次舉債是正確的，未來舉債也是正確的，如果要走……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要用在對的地方……"],["陳委員冠廷：為了要去修復我們的社區，我認為這是正確的做法。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員所說的，包括我們建置通訊行動車，還有建置移動式的發動機，再來，我們增加第二軌的高抗災性基地臺，包括微波，包括衛星等等，都是未來在災區以及在增強韌性上面，我們必須要去做的，我也承認在這個過程當中，我們在這次的韌性考驗上有所不足，所以未來要利用比較大的政策跟財務的支持，把這些部分迅速的強化起來。"],["陳委員冠廷：院長，我是說微電網，即儲能，就是比較偏遠的社區地方能夠有儲能的計畫。"],["卓院長榮泰：對，關於微電網，如果在一個地區裡面，它有發電的設備、光電板，但是因為停電，它沒有辦法，我們就用移動式的發電機跟銜接的方式，讓它能夠提供給附近業者來使用，這個微電網的出現、建置能夠保持現在比較大型電網上關於安全方面不足的考量，這個也是在相同的政策裡面考量的。"],["董次長建宏：報告委員，內政部做一點補充，在院長的指示之下，其實在內政部相關的一些韌性計畫裡面，我們也提了微電網社區的計畫，也跟台電合作。未來針對國內一百七十幾個易致災的孤島社區，我們會協助他們評估是否進行相關的微電網設置……"],["陳委員冠廷：微電網的設置再麻煩了，特別是儲能的部分，因為至少要72個小時……"],["董次長建宏：對，我們會設置儲能還有一些小型的光電或者是小水利的系統，協助社區一起共同度過這樣的風險。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒錯，就是易致災的地方，我特別要強調這個部分，因為道路搶通之後，再來才會有電、才會有訊，就是所謂的訊號，我希望他們能夠自給自足的目的也是這樣子，所以為什麼要有儲能，也是希望能這樣子，要讓它最基本能夠……"],["董次長建宏：我們會跟台電合作，因為系統都……"],["陳委員冠廷：再麻煩一下，在我們山區有一個計畫，就是說至少有幾個……給自己一個數字，好不好？完成幾個數字，特別是在梅山、竹崎、阿里山地區，等到我們全部通過去的話，它可能比較後期，他們前期如果至少能夠有微電網或者儲能設備的話，對他們會有一些很正面的幫助，這個部分我們希望儘快、儘速。"],["董次長建宏：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：再來就是災民的安置，院長，這次的風災我看其實有很多比較年長的農民不太願意到異地的收容所，民間有提出一些其他的方案，包含簡易的住宅、臨時的住宅、貨櫃屋、組合屋等等就地安置的方向，我是不是可以請院長、行政部門來考慮一下，是不是在災前，我們就可以先完成一些開口契約的簽訂，讓未來他們可以更快速、更彈性的選擇他們的安置選項清單，包含組合屋、貨櫃屋等等，都是一個方向，不知道院長怎麼看？"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，在颱風之後的幾天內，我就向地方政府提出有沒有需求要用組合屋，我們有找到一些能夠提供組合屋的業者跟原來有這些設施的，地方告訴我們的需求，第一個，依親的很多，還有收容所收容的並不多，就是組合屋的需求並不高，所以我們就沒有跟地方再溝通是不是一定要強制多這一項選擇。現在想起來，如果當初有一些組合屋的構成的話，也許在搶修屋頂的過程當中，災民更能夠得到生活上的便利，這是我們跟地方討論的結果。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為每個地方狀況都不太一樣，比方說我提到我們的社區有人提出願意協助，也有社區的災民說他想要這樣做，但不代表臺南地區也是想要這樣，高雄地區也想這樣，甚至海區跟山區都不一樣，所以我提出來不是說我一定是對的，我是說有這個聲音，我們可以把它放為選項之一，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們確實當時有討論到，而且很深入地去了解地方的需求……"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝院長，我希望未來可以把它納入，這樣子的話，我們可以從這次學到很多，那我們下一次就可以快速的反應。"],["卓院長榮泰：了解。"],["陳委員冠廷：再來就是關於補助的申請，當然現在有很多長者，我知道我們現在有各個不同的世代，有史以來最多世代生活在一起的就是現在這個世代，因為我們的老齡化、高齡化、超高齡化，所以是三、四個不同世代的人同時住在一起，很多世代的人還不見得熟悉用網路申請的相關機制，院長是不是可以指示相關部會，用主動訪視代為申請的機制，比方說除了村里幹事之外，包含讓約聘式的專員去主動協助弱勢的災民完成申請？就是我們的特別預算裡面是不是可以包含這個可能性？"],["卓院長榮泰：我很謝謝包括基層的村里幹事，他們做了很多類似的工作，也有很多社區的志工做了很多類似的工作，量能縱然有所不足，未來我們如何在人力上再加以補充，要讓這些比較年長的人適應現在的操作工具，這個是我們在增進中央跟人民彼此之間溝通必要的考量，我會納入考量。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝院長。我趕快再繼續問一下，關於接下來救災的部分，我看國防部相關的災害防救辦法裡面，有包含預置兵力的選項，這一次我必須要提到這一點的原因是，因為每一次的狀況都不同，我們是不是也可以請國防部一起共同來討論？我們是不是可以預先準備？因為這個選項裡面有包含預先將部隊進駐高風險、易致災的鄉鎮，除了這個部分，我想是不是可以預置一些相關的重機具裝備，還有可能未來會增用的，要特別提到的是發電、通信，還有災後的防疫，這些我們都預先準備好，因為有些時候……我上次在對交通部質詢的時候也有提到，就是許多開口契約的廠商要負責清運道路，清完之後台電才可以進入，電信業者才可以進入，但是在第一時間要去執行這些清運工程的人，他們本身就已經受困了，他們又沒有衛星電話，因為他們不像國軍有那麼多的裝備，所以第一時間把重要的主幹道清運，讓這些第一線救災的人員至少可以救災，再去維護後面的復原就很重要。是不是可以請國防部能夠預先把一些相關的機具裝備、通訊等等準備好？等到地方通報的時候，國防部就可以更快速的應處。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：謝謝委員的指導，國防部在救災的工作上來講，有預置兵力，也就是說颱風如果侵襲，24小時之內我們所有的兵力就要預置。針對重要的災害，比如土石流或是積水地區的話，我們會提前36個小時布置AAV-7，就是陸戰隊兩棲登陸車，通常來講，都是宜蘭、花蓮或是蘇澳地區居多。至於委員所講的發電機也好，還有通信的衛星電話也好，國防部在所有的救災部隊裡面都是標準配備，所以在預置兵力上來講，國防部會持續地加強這方面的準備工作。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，這次可能會從東部登陸，然後就直接從嘉義、臺南這邊出海，所以我們可能馬上就會遇到這樣的問題，再麻煩國防部能夠儘快協助我們一下。"],["柏副部長鴻輝：是的。"],["陳委員冠廷：最後是關於鄉鎮公所的部分，為什麼講到鄉鎮公所？他們是第一線的人才，他們第一線就要接災民的電話，就要處置、負責補助等等。院長，目前鄉鎮公所委任官的比例限制是35%，縣市政府已經下修到25%。公所的主秘職等大概是八到九，課長是七到八，所以這樣的職等就是天花板，等於是讓年輕的公務人員如果選擇在第一線的話，他看不到升遷的未來。我希望有機會的話，能夠讓鄉公所這個層級檢討一下，讓人事全面來檢討看看，因為他們在地方是第一線，必須去面對民眾，讓第一線做最多的人能夠得到相應的報酬，這個部分再麻煩院長帶回去討論一下。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，對基層人員的鼓勵，不應該只是口頭上的，我們用實質的……"],["陳委員冠廷：而且還有職等。"],["卓院長榮泰：讓他們的工作得到適當的尊嚴。"],["陳委員冠廷：再麻煩，謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員質詢，也謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢。","報告院會，現在在我們議場旁聽席上的是來自遙遠波羅的海的拉脫維亞（Latvia）8位國會議員，我們掌聲歡迎他們的蒞臨！Welcome to Taiwan！","我們再次謝謝羅智強委員、王育敏委員、盧縣一委員，還有劉書彬委員一起參與我們的專案討論。我們休息10分鐘，謝謝。","休息（16時34分）","繼續開會（16時44分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":138,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-24","speakers":["韓國瑜","鍾佳濱","傅崐萁","林國成","王定宇","楊瓊瓔","張啓楷","徐富癸","張嘉郡","賴惠員","謝龍介","林俊憲","王育敏","蔡易餘","邱鎮軍","郭國文","蘇清泉","陳冠廷","盧縣一","林岱樺","羅智強","劉建國","黃建賓"],"page_start":41,"meetingDate":["2025-08-12"],"gazette_id":"1147001","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147001_00003","1147001_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第24次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建」專案報告並備質詢─ 詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147001_00006"}}}