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\"end\": 84.473, \"score\": 0.793}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 84.473, \"end\": 84.854, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 84.854, \"end\": 84.974, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 84.974, \"end\": 85.914, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 85.914, \"end\": 86.135, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 86.135, \"end\": 86.255, \"score\": 0.693}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 86.255, \"end\": 86.375, \"score\": 0.709}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 86.375, \"end\": 86.515, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 86.515, \"end\": 86.695, \"score\": 0.962}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 86.695, \"end\": 87.476, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 87.476, \"end\": 87.636, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 87.636, \"end\": 87.716, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 87.716, \"end\": 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\"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 96.819, \"end\": 97.839, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 97.839, \"end\": 97.999, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 97.999, \"end\": 98.339, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 98.339, \"end\": 99.059, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"確\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 99.059, \"end\": 99.319, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 99.319, \"end\": 99.86, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 99.86, \"end\": 100.1, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 100.1, \"end\": 100.34, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 100.34, \"end\": 100.64, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 100.64, \"end\": 101.1, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.1, \"end\": 102.9, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 112.783, \"end\": 113.003, \"score\": 0.819}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 113.003, \"end\": 113.143, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"口\", \"start\": 113.143, \"end\": 113.283, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 113.283, \"end\": 113.723, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 113.723, \"end\": 113.743, \"score\": 0.93}]}, {\"start\": 114.663, \"end\": 130.002, \"text\": \"產品的個別所要負擔的關稅是多少因為這件事情一直以來這幾天一直在討論疊加這個事情我們家這也是做出口的所以我們自己也都知道說到底有什麼產業有哪些產品它會受到影響\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"產\"}, {\"word\": \"品\", \"start\": 114.663, \"end\": 114.844, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 114.844, \"end\": 115.384, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 115.384, \"end\": 115.605, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 115.605, \"end\": 115.805, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 115.805, \"end\": 116.165, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"負\", \"start\": 116.165, \"end\": 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377.846, \"end\": 377.866, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 380.347, \"end\": 402.225, \"text\": \"但第二個很重要的事情就是其實在立法院他本來還是可以針對這個事情做監督所以我們監督的方式就是在上禮拜去做初試然後我們有這一個所謂的秘密會議這個立法院的委員他本來也就可以要求機密的資料不管是在一個房間過去看這個機密的資料又或者說在秘密會議裡面然後透過秘密質詢的方式所以我在去年一整年我應該也是在這邊很常秘密質詢的這個人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 380.347, \"end\": 380.507, \"score\": 0.609}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 380.507, \"end\": 380.607, \"score\": 0.824}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 380.607, \"end\": 380.787, \"score\": 0.649}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 380.787, \"end\": 380.928, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 380.928, \"end\": 381.028, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 381.028, \"end\": 381.108, \"score\": 0.509}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 381.108, \"end\": 381.208, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 381.208, \"end\": 381.348, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 381.348, \"end\": 381.488, \"score\": 0.839}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 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\"end\": 609.977, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"強\"}, {\"word\": \"化\", \"start\": 609.977, \"end\": 610.317, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 610.317, \"end\": 610.337, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,710 --> 00:00:07,198\n謝謝主席那有請這個經貿辦的這個副總代表還有這個經濟部次長謝謝會員好好\n\n2\n00:00:18,874 --> 00:00:31,467\n你好這個剛剛這一個前面其實已經講了蠻多就是說關於這些關稅疊加的這件事情我現在比較想知道就是說這個是在我們經濟部國貿署上面有做這一個關稅懶人包然後有說到底我的產品會不會受到影響等等之類的\n\n3\n00:00:38,054 --> 00:00:58,628\n但是這邊我想要知道一下就是說其實以各個產業來講不管今天是在4月公佈還是說在近期內公佈的時候他們對於自己的這一個產品會受到多少的關稅它的本身有沒有理解就是說經濟部在跟他們溝通的這個整個過程當中這些產業他們自己知不知道這些事情\n\n4\n00:01:00,656 --> 00:01:28,276\n委員好這個國內產業溝通的部分是不是可以請經濟部來協助回答好那我先講一下這其實也就是剛剛的這一個疑問就是說剛剛前面有幾位委員一直在質詢比如說這個數字到底是幾點幾%這個數字到底是幾點幾%的時候這其實是經濟部可以回答的事情對不對但是我剛剛看到很多時候都是在問對外的談判代表說到底是多少%這個數字到底是多少這種方式的質詢其實無處解決問題\n\n5\n00:01:30,517 --> 00:01:53,743\n這邊的確是一個經濟部比較熟悉的數字是不是請次長回答一下這個問題是報告委員我們確實有跟所有的相關的產業協會工協會都有做座談所以其實因為他們都是業者的代表而且他們是實際有出口到美國的業者所以他們也非常清楚他們所出口的產品\n\n6\n00:01:54,663 --> 00:02:10,002\n產品的個別所要負擔的關稅是多少因為這件事情一直以來這幾天一直在討論疊加這個事情我們家這也是做出口的所以我們自己也都知道說到底有什麼產業有哪些產品它會受到影響\n\n7\n00:02:10,783 --> 00:02:33,053\n那現在呢所以我現在有疑慮的事情就是說呢今天當然我們有這樣的一個表格讓業者自己可以知道但其實就像剛剛講的很多業者他是清楚的但他可能不清楚的是什麼比如說像剛剛定宇委員提到的他所需要的資料有可能是他雖然現在知道跌價他也知道他現在面臨的這一個關稅可能是多少但他想要知道現在競爭力的狀況到底如何\n\n8\n00:02:33,753 --> 00:02:49,321\n對因為這件事情它是完全在浮動的而且要掌握到每一個國家的情勢對每一個業者就不一定那麼容易但這可能就是經濟部可以協助的部分所以這是第一個就是說呢關於競爭力的比較尤其是我們台灣的產品跟譬如說跟越南的產品跟中國的產品比較起來這是第一個\n\n9\n00:02:50,101 --> 00:03:13,900\n第二個就是說剛剛其實在前面的質詢應該也有提到就是現在縣裡面行政院有在討論說到底要補助或者說今天要去多少的資金來做協助現在有時候我們在遇到各個產業的時候他們最常會講到的就是我現在知道比如說有900億的補助而我可能知道接下來還有200億但問題來了就是說他們常常會講說看得到吃不到\n\n10\n00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:30,496\n所以我覺得經濟部這邊可能有一個責任就是我們今天不是講說今天一定是要大家每個人都這一個拿得到這個金錢不是這個意思而是說當今天有這樣的一個反應的時候其實我們在第一時間公布的時候就要有一些執行的細節因為這樣\n\n11\n00:03:32,518 --> 00:03:51,625\n看的人或者說這些產業的人他才會在第一時間知道說OK那我今天到底有沒有機會得到這一筆補助所以這個執行的細節我認為是重要的否則你在第一時間雖然有一個數字出來那院裡面可能也會覺得說這個數字我們已經定得算漂亮但一般的人民不一定是有感覺的\n\n12\n00:03:52,205 --> 00:04:08,745\n我觉得施政让人民有感这件事情无疑是重要的所以这边也是像这个当时的记者会有讲到这个十四大措施然后930亿这边有750亿下面这个是这对农业的180亿我相信农业除了传产以外农业的影响一定是大的嘛\n\n13\n00:04:09,165 --> 00:04:24,868\n這是在評估的這個結果所以如果針對這一個事情的細節能夠更完整的話這個才可以讓施政讓人民有感而且他可能不一定是在記者會講他可能就是在跟各個產業溝通的時候他們就已經知道甚至他們可能在這個記者會之前就已經非常清楚\n\n14\n00:04:25,248 --> 00:04:40,601\n那就說真的如果說今天有一些政治人物他去炒作這樣的一個輿論的時候他就不容易引起這一個社會的動盪我覺得這是蠻重要的一件事但我拉回來想要再問的就是說我剛剛講的都是對內的部分但我比較擔心的就是\n\n15\n00:04:41,742 --> 00:05:00,423\n這一個剛剛講的保密協定這邊可能再回到幾秒半就是說我們因為這種政治的操作最近真的非常非常的多但我相信就是因為關稅是國人所重視的議題所以呢也有很多政治人物想要操作這個議題那上個禮拜呢當然我們有做這一個保密協議的一個出示\n\n16\n00:05:01,705 --> 00:05:19,922\n但是因為這個內容我們沒有辦法在公開的會議繼續去討論但是那一天在內部的質詢其實很多人都已經有問這個副總談判代表了是不是可以但是在這個機會是不是因為現在是一個公開的會議能不能跟大家說明一下就是說這個在國際上面尤其在談判的過程這個保密協議的一個必要性呢\n\n17\n00:05:21,930 --> 00:05:51,131\n我想保密協議本身都是我們對外談判可以展開的一個重要的前提因為所有的談判都是動態發展的而我們的談判基本上各國都不會揭露它的底線所以在談判的過程當中這個底線跟產業的利益跟國家利益都是要被維護的情況之下保密協議即便我們沒有保密協議我們台灣過去在跟其他國家例如說新加坡\n\n18\n00:05:52,011 --> 00:06:17,866\n這些紐西蘭這些國家在進行談判即便沒有簽這個保密協議的文件我們的談判也都是全程保密更何況我們現在跟美國的談判是有一個白紙黑字的保密協議存在的所以我認為這個也是重要的事情就是說我們對於保密協議的一個出示他當然不一定說因為保密協議是重要的在談判的過程當中我們需要用這樣的東西來保障也不讓別人知道我們的底線然後說真的其實對方也是動態的兩邊都會有自己的底牌\n\n19\n00:06:20,347 --> 00:06:42,225\n但第二個很重要的事情就是其實在立法院他本來還是可以針對這個事情做監督所以我們監督的方式就是在上禮拜去做初試然後我們有這一個所謂的秘密會議這個立法院的委員他本來也就可以要求機密的資料不管是在一個房間過去看這個機密的資料又或者說在秘密會議裡面然後透過秘密質詢的方式所以我在去年一整年我應該也是在這邊很常秘密質詢的這個人\n\n20\n00:06:44,247 --> 00:07:02,978\n所以它的確還是有受到國會監督這個監督這件事情它還有後續就是等到我們今天最終的這一個結果出來了以後它應該還會有按照法律相關的文件要送到院內我覺得這應該是一個很正常的程序但是這邊我現在有稍微比較應該是個比較敏感的問題就是說\n\n21\n00:07:05,399 --> 00:07:32,939\n因為華郵他自己有說他引述獨家取得的貿易談判的文件他指的不是保密協定本身他講的是過程當中的這一個貿易談判文件裡面有提到一件事情就是台灣增加軍費或什麼等等之類的我們這邊是國防外交委員會我們當然對這個注重但我裡面比較關心的反而是最上面那一個就是他試圖向亞洲中東及非洲國家要求戰略檔口電信及監控網路的一個去中華\n\n22\n00:07:33,860 --> 00:07:50,687\n也就是說我們可以看到現在中國談判的這個結果當然它的這個疊加關稅是高的那美國想要去做對於中國相關的這個圍堵的這個態勢其實在這個過程當中在外交上面是明顯的但我現在擔心的事情就是什麼呢就是這一個是我在這一個\n\n23\n00:07:53,068 --> 00:08:08,292\n3月18號今年的3月18號的總質詢那時候在問卓榮泰院長的一個內容我裡面有提到非常多就是比如說今天新加坡破貨了幫中國買輝達晶片的白手套還有台灣之前有沒有購買高階晶片的這個轉手帝的問題還有之前華為那時候有問過經濟部就是他有沒有在戰略高科技的貨品出口實體管理名單本來沒有但後來加上去了\n\n24\n00:08:18,454 --> 00:08:46,796\n也就是說呢這一些事項當時我提出了國安法第3條跟兩岸條例第9條當時在3月的時候呢我有建議院長就是說是不是能夠趕快把院版能夠趕快提出來因為有院版這件事情讓我們修法我們才可以知道比較細緻的方向在哪裡裡面也包含了就是這個所謂的貿易法第13條跟兩岸條例第35條我在3月提出這件事情最主要的原因就是因為經濟安全現在變成是一個很重要的議題\n\n25\n00:08:47,817 --> 00:09:12,606\n我相信在談判的過程當中對方最懼怕的一定就是台灣到底有沒有洗產地台灣有沒有今天技術的洩漏有沒有晶片相關的核心關鍵技術被拿走這是對方非常關心的問題如果說我們今天不要說因為立法院的狀況其實現在國際可能知道但院裡面有沒有針對這些提出了一些相關的修法這至少是能夠被拿出來的\n\n26\n00:09:13,286 --> 00:09:37,332\n所以這是那時候我三月很關心的問題我知道有些不是修法它有時候是比如說可能是經濟部自己內部規則的訂定這個在談判的過程當中一定會有利我現在要講的事情就是因為現在已經談到談到一半或是談到三分之二了接下來我們還有一點時間這一個時間希望能夠回去再建議尤其在不管是經濟部這一邊或者在陸委會今天沒有陸委會\n\n27\n00:09:38,132 --> 00:10:00,845\n就是針對我們的兩岸條例針對我們的國安法貿易法這些相關的規定它有一些細節可以先拿出來告訴對方講說我們有觀察到什麼樣的案例我們做了什麼樣的防堵我認為這個在談判應該會是一個有利的是拜託能夠再跟院內來做這樣的一個溝通那我應該知道我時間已經到了所以還有一些小問題沒有辦法詢問我就下一次再詢問謝謝\n\n28\n00:10:01,926 --> 00:10:10,337\n好謝謝委員簡單補充我們嚴格控管席產地違規轉移這件事情我們的政府已經都已經在強化執行謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n710\t7198\t謝謝主席那有請這個經貿辦的這個副總代表還有這個經濟部次長謝謝會員好好\n18874\t31467\t你好 這個剛剛這一個前面其實已經講了蠻多就是說關於這些關稅疊加的這件事情我現在比較想知道就是說這個是在我們經濟部國貿署上面有做這一個關稅懶人包然後有說到底我的產品會不會受到影響等等之類的\n38054\t58628\t但是這邊我想要知道一下就是說其實以各個產業來講不管今天是在4月公佈還是說在近期內公佈的時候他們對於自己的這一個產品會受到多少的關稅它的本身有沒有理解就是說經濟部在跟他們溝通的這個整個過程當中這些產業他們自己知不知道這些事情\n60656\t88276\t委員好這個國內產業溝通的部分是不是可以請經濟部來協助回答好 那我先講一下這其實也就是剛剛的這一個疑問就是說剛剛前面有幾位委員一直在質詢比如說這個數字到底是幾點幾%這個數字到底是幾點幾%的時候這其實是經濟部可以回答的事情對不對但是我剛剛看到很多時候都是在問對外的談判代表說到底是多少%這個數字到底是多少這種方式的質詢其實無處解決問題\n90517\t113743\t這邊的確是一個經濟部比較熟悉的數字是不是請次長回答一下這個問題是 報告委員我們確實有跟所有的相關的產業協會工協會都有做座談所以其實因為他們都是業者的代表而且他們是實際有出口到美國的業者所以他們也非常清楚他們所出口的產品\n114663\t130002\t產品的個別所要負擔的關稅是多少因為這件事情一直以來這幾天一直在討論疊加這個事情我們家這也是做出口的所以我們自己也都知道說到底有什麼產業有哪些產品它會受到影響\n130783\t153053\t那現在呢所以我現在有疑慮的事情就是說呢今天當然我們有這樣的一個表格讓業者自己可以知道但其實就像剛剛講的很多業者他是清楚的但他可能不清楚的是什麼比如說像剛剛定宇委員提到的他所需要的資料有可能是他雖然現在知道跌價他也知道他現在面臨的這一個關稅可能是多少但他想要知道現在競爭力的狀況到底如何\n153753\t169321\t對 因為這件事情它是完全在浮動的而且要掌握到每一個國家的情勢對每一個業者就不一定那麼容易但這可能就是經濟部可以協助的部分所以這是第一個就是說呢關於競爭力的比較尤其是我們台灣的產品跟譬如說跟越南的產品跟中國的產品比較起來這是第一個\n170101\t193900\t第二個就是說剛剛其實在前面的質詢應該也有提到就是現在縣裡面行政院有在討論說到底要補助或者說今天要去多少的資金來做協助現在有時候我們在遇到各個產業的時候他們最常會講到的就是我現在知道比如說有900億的補助而我可能知道接下來還有200億但問題來了就是說他們常常會講說看得到吃不到\n194820\t210496\t所以我覺得經濟部這邊可能有一個責任就是我們今天不是講說今天一定是要大家每個人都這一個拿得到這個金錢不是這個意思而是說當今天有這樣的一個反應的時候其實我們在第一時間公布的時候就要有一些執行的細節因為這樣\n212518\t231625\t看的人或者說這些產業的人他才會在第一時間知道說OK 那我今天到底有沒有機會得到這一筆補助所以這個執行的細節我認為是重要的否則你在第一時間雖然有一個數字出來那院裡面可能也會覺得說這個數字我們已經定得算漂亮但一般的人民不一定是有感覺的\n232205\t248745\t我觉得施政让人民有感这件事情无疑是重要的所以这边也是像这个当时的记者会有讲到这个十四大措施然后930亿这边有750亿下面这个是这对农业的180亿我相信农业除了传产以外农业的影响一定是大的嘛\n249165\t264868\t這是在評估的這個結果所以如果針對這一個事情的細節能夠更完整的話這個才可以讓施政讓人民有感而且他可能不一定是在記者會講他可能就是在跟各個產業溝通的時候他們就已經知道甚至他們可能在這個記者會之前就已經非常清楚\n265248\t280601\t那就說真的如果說今天有一些政治人物他去炒作這樣的一個輿論的時候他就不容易引起這一個社會的動盪我覺得這是蠻重要的一件事但我拉回來想要再問的就是說我剛剛講的都是對內的部分但我比較擔心的就是\n281742\t300423\t這一個剛剛講的保密協定這邊可能再回到幾秒半就是說我們因為這種政治的操作最近真的非常非常的多但我相信就是因為關稅是國人所重視的議題所以呢也有很多政治人物想要操作這個議題那上個禮拜呢當然我們有做這一個保密協議的一個出示\n301705\t319922\t但是因為這個內容我們沒有辦法在公開的會議繼續去討論但是那一天在內部的質詢其實很多人都已經有問這個副總談判代表了是不是可以但是在這個機會是不是因為現在是一個公開的會議能不能跟大家說明一下就是說這個在國際上面尤其在談判的過程這個保密協議的一個必要性呢\n321930\t351131\t我想保密協議本身都是我們對外談判可以展開的一個重要的前提因為所有的談判都是動態發展的而我們的談判基本上各國都不會揭露它的底線所以在談判的過程當中這個底線跟產業的利益跟國家利益都是要被維護的情況之下保密協議即便我們沒有保密協議我們台灣過去在跟其他國家例如說新加坡\n352011\t377866\t這些紐西蘭這些國家在進行談判即便沒有簽這個保密協議的文件我們的談判也都是全程保密更何況我們現在跟美國的談判是有一個白紙黑字的保密協議存在的所以我認為這個也是重要的事情就是說我們對於保密協議的一個出示他當然不一定說因為保密協議是重要的在談判的過程當中我們需要用這樣的東西來保障也不讓別人知道我們的底線然後說真的其實對方也是動態的兩邊都會有自己的底牌\n380347\t402225\t但第二個很重要的事情就是其實在立法院他本來還是可以針對這個事情做監督所以我們監督的方式就是在上禮拜去做初試然後我們有這一個所謂的秘密會議這個立法院的委員他本來也就可以要求機密的資料不管是在一個房間過去看這個機密的資料又或者說在秘密會議裡面然後透過秘密質詢的方式所以我在去年一整年我應該也是在這邊很常秘密質詢的這個人\n404247\t422978\t所以它的確還是有受到國會監督這個監督這件事情它還有後續就是等到我們今天最終的這一個結果出來了以後它應該還會有按照法律相關的文件要送到院內我覺得這應該是一個很正常的程序但是這邊我現在有稍微比較應該是個比較敏感的問題就是說\n425399\t452939\t因為華郵他自己有說他引述獨家取得的貿易談判的文件他指的不是保密協定本身他講的是過程當中的這一個貿易談判文件裡面有提到一件事情就是台灣增加軍費或什麼等等之類的我們這邊是國防外交委員會我們當然對這個注重但我裡面比較關心的反而是最上面那一個就是他試圖向亞洲中東及非洲國家要求戰略檔口電信及監控網路的一個去中華\n453860\t470687\t也就是說我們可以看到現在中國談判的這個結果當然它的這個疊加關稅是高的那美國想要去做對於中國相關的這個圍堵的這個態勢其實在這個過程當中在外交上面是明顯的但我現在擔心的事情就是什麼呢就是這一個是我在這一個\n473068\t488292\t3月18號 今年的3月18號的總質詢那時候在問卓榮泰院長的一個內容我裡面有提到非常多就是比如說今天新加坡破貨了幫中國買輝達晶片的白手套還有台灣之前有沒有購買高階晶片的這個轉手帝的問題還有之前華為那時候有問過經濟部就是他有沒有在戰略高科技的貨品出口實體管理名單本來沒有 但後來加上去了\n498454\t526796\t也就是說呢 這一些事項當時我提出了國安法第3條跟兩岸條例第9條當時在3月的時候呢我有建議院長就是說是不是能夠趕快把院版能夠趕快提出來因為有院版這件事情讓我們修法我們才可以知道比較細緻的方向在哪裡裡面也包含了就是這個所謂的貿易法第13條跟兩岸條例第35條我在3月提出這件事情最主要的原因就是因為經濟安全現在變成是一個很重要的議題\n527817\t552606\t我相信在談判的過程當中對方最懼怕的一定就是台灣到底有沒有洗產地台灣有沒有今天技術的洩漏有沒有晶片相關的核心關鍵技術被拿走這是對方非常關心的問題如果說我們今天不要說因為立法院的狀況其實現在國際可能知道但院裡面有沒有針對這些提出了一些相關的修法這至少是能夠被拿出來的\n553286\t577332\t所以這是那時候我三月很關心的問題我知道有些不是修法它有時候是比如說可能是經濟部自己內部規則的訂定這個在談判的過程當中一定會有利我現在要講的事情就是因為現在已經談到談到一半或是談到三分之二了接下來我們還有一點時間這一個時間希望能夠回去再建議尤其在不管是經濟部這一邊或者在陸委會今天沒有陸委會\n578132\t600845\t就是針對我們的兩岸條例針對我們的國安法貿易法這些相關的規定它有一些細節可以先拿出來告訴對方講說我們有觀察到什麼樣的案例我們做了什麼樣的防堵我認為這個在談判應該會是一個有利的是拜託能夠再跟院內來做這樣的一個溝通那我應該知道我時間已經到了所以還有一些小問題沒有辦法詢問我就下一次再詢問謝謝\n601926\t610337\t好 謝謝委員 簡單補充我們嚴格控管席產地違規轉移這件事情我們的政府已經都已經在強化執行 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席那有請這個經貿辦的這個副總代表還有這個經濟部次長謝謝會員好好\n你好 這個剛剛這一個前面其實已經講了蠻多就是說關於這些關稅疊加的這件事情我現在比較想知道就是說這個是在我們經濟部國貿署上面有做這一個關稅懶人包然後有說到底我的產品會不會受到影響等等之類的\n但是這邊我想要知道一下就是說其實以各個產業來講不管今天是在4月公佈還是說在近期內公佈的時候他們對於自己的這一個產品會受到多少的關稅它的本身有沒有理解就是說經濟部在跟他們溝通的這個整個過程當中這些產業他們自己知不知道這些事情\n委員好這個國內產業溝通的部分是不是可以請經濟部來協助回答好 那我先講一下這其實也就是剛剛的這一個疑問就是說剛剛前面有幾位委員一直在質詢比如說這個數字到底是幾點幾%這個數字到底是幾點幾%的時候這其實是經濟部可以回答的事情對不對但是我剛剛看到很多時候都是在問對外的談判代表說到底是多少%這個數字到底是多少這種方式的質詢其實無處解決問題\n這邊的確是一個經濟部比較熟悉的數字是不是請次長回答一下這個問題是 報告委員我們確實有跟所有的相關的產業協會工協會都有做座談所以其實因為他們都是業者的代表而且他們是實際有出口到美國的業者所以他們也非常清楚他們所出口的產品\n產品的個別所要負擔的關稅是多少因為這件事情一直以來這幾天一直在討論疊加這個事情我們家這也是做出口的所以我們自己也都知道說到底有什麼產業有哪些產品它會受到影響\n那現在呢所以我現在有疑慮的事情就是說呢今天當然我們有這樣的一個表格讓業者自己可以知道但其實就像剛剛講的很多業者他是清楚的但他可能不清楚的是什麼比如說像剛剛定宇委員提到的他所需要的資料有可能是他雖然現在知道跌價他也知道他現在面臨的這一個關稅可能是多少但他想要知道現在競爭力的狀況到底如何\n對 因為這件事情它是完全在浮動的而且要掌握到每一個國家的情勢對每一個業者就不一定那麼容易但這可能就是經濟部可以協助的部分所以這是第一個就是說呢關於競爭力的比較尤其是我們台灣的產品跟譬如說跟越南的產品跟中國的產品比較起來這是第一個\n第二個就是說剛剛其實在前面的質詢應該也有提到就是現在縣裡面行政院有在討論說到底要補助或者說今天要去多少的資金來做協助現在有時候我們在遇到各個產業的時候他們最常會講到的就是我現在知道比如說有900億的補助而我可能知道接下來還有200億但問題來了就是說他們常常會講說看得到吃不到\n所以我覺得經濟部這邊可能有一個責任就是我們今天不是講說今天一定是要大家每個人都這一個拿得到這個金錢不是這個意思而是說當今天有這樣的一個反應的時候其實我們在第一時間公布的時候就要有一些執行的細節因為這樣\n看的人或者說這些產業的人他才會在第一時間知道說OK 那我今天到底有沒有機會得到這一筆補助所以這個執行的細節我認為是重要的否則你在第一時間雖然有一個數字出來那院裡面可能也會覺得說這個數字我們已經定得算漂亮但一般的人民不一定是有感覺的\n我觉得施政让人民有感这件事情无疑是重要的所以这边也是像这个当时的记者会有讲到这个十四大措施然后930亿这边有750亿下面这个是这对农业的180亿我相信农业除了传产以外农业的影响一定是大的嘛\n這是在評估的這個結果所以如果針對這一個事情的細節能夠更完整的話這個才可以讓施政讓人民有感而且他可能不一定是在記者會講他可能就是在跟各個產業溝通的時候他們就已經知道甚至他們可能在這個記者會之前就已經非常清楚\n那就說真的如果說今天有一些政治人物他去炒作這樣的一個輿論的時候他就不容易引起這一個社會的動盪我覺得這是蠻重要的一件事但我拉回來想要再問的就是說我剛剛講的都是對內的部分但我比較擔心的就是\n這一個剛剛講的保密協定這邊可能再回到幾秒半就是說我們因為這種政治的操作最近真的非常非常的多但我相信就是因為關稅是國人所重視的議題所以呢也有很多政治人物想要操作這個議題那上個禮拜呢當然我們有做這一個保密協議的一個出示\n但是因為這個內容我們沒有辦法在公開的會議繼續去討論但是那一天在內部的質詢其實很多人都已經有問這個副總談判代表了是不是可以但是在這個機會是不是因為現在是一個公開的會議能不能跟大家說明一下就是說這個在國際上面尤其在談判的過程這個保密協議的一個必要性呢\n我想保密協議本身都是我們對外談判可以展開的一個重要的前提因為所有的談判都是動態發展的而我們的談判基本上各國都不會揭露它的底線所以在談判的過程當中這個底線跟產業的利益跟國家利益都是要被維護的情況之下保密協議即便我們沒有保密協議我們台灣過去在跟其他國家例如說新加坡\n這些紐西蘭這些國家在進行談判即便沒有簽這個保密協議的文件我們的談判也都是全程保密更何況我們現在跟美國的談判是有一個白紙黑字的保密協議存在的所以我認為這個也是重要的事情就是說我們對於保密協議的一個出示他當然不一定說因為保密協議是重要的在談判的過程當中我們需要用這樣的東西來保障也不讓別人知道我們的底線然後說真的其實對方也是動態的兩邊都會有自己的底牌\n但第二個很重要的事情就是其實在立法院他本來還是可以針對這個事情做監督所以我們監督的方式就是在上禮拜去做初試然後我們有這一個所謂的秘密會議這個立法院的委員他本來也就可以要求機密的資料不管是在一個房間過去看這個機密的資料又或者說在秘密會議裡面然後透過秘密質詢的方式所以我在去年一整年我應該也是在這邊很常秘密質詢的這個人\n所以它的確還是有受到國會監督這個監督這件事情它還有後續就是等到我們今天最終的這一個結果出來了以後它應該還會有按照法律相關的文件要送到院內我覺得這應該是一個很正常的程序但是這邊我現在有稍微比較應該是個比較敏感的問題就是說\n因為華郵他自己有說他引述獨家取得的貿易談判的文件他指的不是保密協定本身他講的是過程當中的這一個貿易談判文件裡面有提到一件事情就是台灣增加軍費或什麼等等之類的我們這邊是國防外交委員會我們當然對這個注重但我裡面比較關心的反而是最上面那一個就是他試圖向亞洲中東及非洲國家要求戰略檔口電信及監控網路的一個去中華\n也就是說我們可以看到現在中國談判的這個結果當然它的這個疊加關稅是高的那美國想要去做對於中國相關的這個圍堵的這個態勢其實在這個過程當中在外交上面是明顯的但我現在擔心的事情就是什麼呢就是這一個是我在這一個\n3月18號 今年的3月18號的總質詢那時候在問卓榮泰院長的一個內容我裡面有提到非常多就是比如說今天新加坡破貨了幫中國買輝達晶片的白手套還有台灣之前有沒有購買高階晶片的這個轉手帝的問題還有之前華為那時候有問過經濟部就是他有沒有在戰略高科技的貨品出口實體管理名單本來沒有 但後來加上去了\n也就是說呢 這一些事項當時我提出了國安法第3條跟兩岸條例第9條當時在3月的時候呢我有建議院長就是說是不是能夠趕快把院版能夠趕快提出來因為有院版這件事情讓我們修法我們才可以知道比較細緻的方向在哪裡裡面也包含了就是這個所謂的貿易法第13條跟兩岸條例第35條我在3月提出這件事情最主要的原因就是因為經濟安全現在變成是一個很重要的議題\n我相信在談判的過程當中對方最懼怕的一定就是台灣到底有沒有洗產地台灣有沒有今天技術的洩漏有沒有晶片相關的核心關鍵技術被拿走這是對方非常關心的問題如果說我們今天不要說因為立法院的狀況其實現在國際可能知道但院裡面有沒有針對這些提出了一些相關的修法這至少是能夠被拿出來的\n所以這是那時候我三月很關心的問題我知道有些不是修法它有時候是比如說可能是經濟部自己內部規則的訂定這個在談判的過程當中一定會有利我現在要講的事情就是因為現在已經談到談到一半或是談到三分之二了接下來我們還有一點時間這一個時間希望能夠回去再建議尤其在不管是經濟部這一邊或者在陸委會今天沒有陸委會\n就是針對我們的兩岸條例針對我們的國安法貿易法這些相關的規定它有一些細節可以先拿出來告訴對方講說我們有觀察到什麼樣的案例我們做了什麼樣的防堵我認為這個在談判應該會是一個有利的是拜託能夠再跟院內來做這樣的一個溝通那我應該知道我時間已經到了所以還有一些小問題沒有辦法詢問我就下一次再詢問謝謝\n好 謝謝委員 簡單補充我們嚴格控管席產地違規轉移這件事情我們的政府已經都已經在強化執行 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.710 --> 00:07.198\n謝謝主席那有請這個經貿辦的這個副總代表還有這個經濟部次長謝謝會員好好\n\n00:18.874 --> 00:31.467\n你好這個剛剛這一個前面其實已經講了蠻多就是說關於這些關稅疊加的這件事情我現在比較想知道就是說這個是在我們經濟部國貿署上面有做這一個關稅懶人包然後有說到底我的產品會不會受到影響等等之類的\n\n00:38.054 --> 00:58.628\n但是這邊我想要知道一下就是說其實以各個產業來講不管今天是在4月公佈還是說在近期內公佈的時候他們對於自己的這一個產品會受到多少的關稅它的本身有沒有理解就是說經濟部在跟他們溝通的這個整個過程當中這些產業他們自己知不知道這些事情\n\n01:00.656 --> 01:28.276\n委員好這個國內產業溝通的部分是不是可以請經濟部來協助回答好那我先講一下這其實也就是剛剛的這一個疑問就是說剛剛前面有幾位委員一直在質詢比如說這個數字到底是幾點幾%這個數字到底是幾點幾%的時候這其實是經濟部可以回答的事情對不對但是我剛剛看到很多時候都是在問對外的談判代表說到底是多少%這個數字到底是多少這種方式的質詢其實無處解決問題\n\n01:30.517 --> 01:53.743\n這邊的確是一個經濟部比較熟悉的數字是不是請次長回答一下這個問題是報告委員我們確實有跟所有的相關的產業協會工協會都有做座談所以其實因為他們都是業者的代表而且他們是實際有出口到美國的業者所以他們也非常清楚他們所出口的產品\n\n01:54.663 --> 02:10.002\n產品的個別所要負擔的關稅是多少因為這件事情一直以來這幾天一直在討論疊加這個事情我們家這也是做出口的所以我們自己也都知道說到底有什麼產業有哪些產品它會受到影響\n\n02:10.783 --> 02:33.053\n那現在呢所以我現在有疑慮的事情就是說呢今天當然我們有這樣的一個表格讓業者自己可以知道但其實就像剛剛講的很多業者他是清楚的但他可能不清楚的是什麼比如說像剛剛定宇委員提到的他所需要的資料有可能是他雖然現在知道跌價他也知道他現在面臨的這一個關稅可能是多少但他想要知道現在競爭力的狀況到底如何\n\n02:33.753 --> 02:49.321\n對因為這件事情它是完全在浮動的而且要掌握到每一個國家的情勢對每一個業者就不一定那麼容易但這可能就是經濟部可以協助的部分所以這是第一個就是說呢關於競爭力的比較尤其是我們台灣的產品跟譬如說跟越南的產品跟中國的產品比較起來這是第一個\n\n02:50.101 --> 03:13.900\n第二個就是說剛剛其實在前面的質詢應該也有提到就是現在縣裡面行政院有在討論說到底要補助或者說今天要去多少的資金來做協助現在有時候我們在遇到各個產業的時候他們最常會講到的就是我現在知道比如說有900億的補助而我可能知道接下來還有200億但問題來了就是說他們常常會講說看得到吃不到\n\n03:14.820 --> 03:30.496\n所以我覺得經濟部這邊可能有一個責任就是我們今天不是講說今天一定是要大家每個人都這一個拿得到這個金錢不是這個意思而是說當今天有這樣的一個反應的時候其實我們在第一時間公布的時候就要有一些執行的細節因為這樣\n\n03:32.518 --> 03:51.625\n看的人或者說這些產業的人他才會在第一時間知道說OK那我今天到底有沒有機會得到這一筆補助所以這個執行的細節我認為是重要的否則你在第一時間雖然有一個數字出來那院裡面可能也會覺得說這個數字我們已經定得算漂亮但一般的人民不一定是有感覺的\n\n03:52.205 --> 04:08.745\n我觉得施政让人民有感这件事情无疑是重要的所以这边也是像这个当时的记者会有讲到这个十四大措施然后930亿这边有750亿下面这个是这对农业的180亿我相信农业除了传产以外农业的影响一定是大的嘛\n\n04:09.165 --> 04:24.868\n這是在評估的這個結果所以如果針對這一個事情的細節能夠更完整的話這個才可以讓施政讓人民有感而且他可能不一定是在記者會講他可能就是在跟各個產業溝通的時候他們就已經知道甚至他們可能在這個記者會之前就已經非常清楚\n\n04:25.248 --> 04:40.601\n那就說真的如果說今天有一些政治人物他去炒作這樣的一個輿論的時候他就不容易引起這一個社會的動盪我覺得這是蠻重要的一件事但我拉回來想要再問的就是說我剛剛講的都是對內的部分但我比較擔心的就是\n\n04:41.742 --> 05:00.423\n這一個剛剛講的保密協定這邊可能再回到幾秒半就是說我們因為這種政治的操作最近真的非常非常的多但我相信就是因為關稅是國人所重視的議題所以呢也有很多政治人物想要操作這個議題那上個禮拜呢當然我們有做這一個保密協議的一個出示\n\n05:01.705 --> 05:19.922\n但是因為這個內容我們沒有辦法在公開的會議繼續去討論但是那一天在內部的質詢其實很多人都已經有問這個副總談判代表了是不是可以但是在這個機會是不是因為現在是一個公開的會議能不能跟大家說明一下就是說這個在國際上面尤其在談判的過程這個保密協議的一個必要性呢\n\n05:21.930 --> 05:51.131\n我想保密協議本身都是我們對外談判可以展開的一個重要的前提因為所有的談判都是動態發展的而我們的談判基本上各國都不會揭露它的底線所以在談判的過程當中這個底線跟產業的利益跟國家利益都是要被維護的情況之下保密協議即便我們沒有保密協議我們台灣過去在跟其他國家例如說新加坡\n\n05:52.011 --> 06:17.866\n這些紐西蘭這些國家在進行談判即便沒有簽這個保密協議的文件我們的談判也都是全程保密更何況我們現在跟美國的談判是有一個白紙黑字的保密協議存在的所以我認為這個也是重要的事情就是說我們對於保密協議的一個出示他當然不一定說因為保密協議是重要的在談判的過程當中我們需要用這樣的東西來保障也不讓別人知道我們的底線然後說真的其實對方也是動態的兩邊都會有自己的底牌\n\n06:20.347 --> 06:42.225\n但第二個很重要的事情就是其實在立法院他本來還是可以針對這個事情做監督所以我們監督的方式就是在上禮拜去做初試然後我們有這一個所謂的秘密會議這個立法院的委員他本來也就可以要求機密的資料不管是在一個房間過去看這個機密的資料又或者說在秘密會議裡面然後透過秘密質詢的方式所以我在去年一整年我應該也是在這邊很常秘密質詢的這個人\n\n06:44.247 --> 07:02.978\n所以它的確還是有受到國會監督這個監督這件事情它還有後續就是等到我們今天最終的這一個結果出來了以後它應該還會有按照法律相關的文件要送到院內我覺得這應該是一個很正常的程序但是這邊我現在有稍微比較應該是個比較敏感的問題就是說\n\n07:05.399 --> 07:32.939\n因為華郵他自己有說他引述獨家取得的貿易談判的文件他指的不是保密協定本身他講的是過程當中的這一個貿易談判文件裡面有提到一件事情就是台灣增加軍費或什麼等等之類的我們這邊是國防外交委員會我們當然對這個注重但我裡面比較關心的反而是最上面那一個就是他試圖向亞洲中東及非洲國家要求戰略檔口電信及監控網路的一個去中華\n\n07:33.860 --> 07:50.687\n也就是說我們可以看到現在中國談判的這個結果當然它的這個疊加關稅是高的那美國想要去做對於中國相關的這個圍堵的這個態勢其實在這個過程當中在外交上面是明顯的但我現在擔心的事情就是什麼呢就是這一個是我在這一個\n\n07:53.068 --> 08:08.292\n3月18號今年的3月18號的總質詢那時候在問卓榮泰院長的一個內容我裡面有提到非常多就是比如說今天新加坡破貨了幫中國買輝達晶片的白手套還有台灣之前有沒有購買高階晶片的這個轉手帝的問題還有之前華為那時候有問過經濟部就是他有沒有在戰略高科技的貨品出口實體管理名單本來沒有但後來加上去了\n\n08:18.454 --> 08:46.796\n也就是說呢這一些事項當時我提出了國安法第3條跟兩岸條例第9條當時在3月的時候呢我有建議院長就是說是不是能夠趕快把院版能夠趕快提出來因為有院版這件事情讓我們修法我們才可以知道比較細緻的方向在哪裡裡面也包含了就是這個所謂的貿易法第13條跟兩岸條例第35條我在3月提出這件事情最主要的原因就是因為經濟安全現在變成是一個很重要的議題\n\n08:47.817 --> 09:12.606\n我相信在談判的過程當中對方最懼怕的一定就是台灣到底有沒有洗產地台灣有沒有今天技術的洩漏有沒有晶片相關的核心關鍵技術被拿走這是對方非常關心的問題如果說我們今天不要說因為立法院的狀況其實現在國際可能知道但院裡面有沒有針對這些提出了一些相關的修法這至少是能夠被拿出來的\n\n09:13.286 --> 09:37.332\n所以這是那時候我三月很關心的問題我知道有些不是修法它有時候是比如說可能是經濟部自己內部規則的訂定這個在談判的過程當中一定會有利我現在要講的事情就是因為現在已經談到談到一半或是談到三分之二了接下來我們還有一點時間這一個時間希望能夠回去再建議尤其在不管是經濟部這一邊或者在陸委會今天沒有陸委會\n\n09:38.132 --> 10:00.845\n就是針對我們的兩岸條例針對我們的國安法貿易法這些相關的規定它有一些細節可以先拿出來告訴對方講說我們有觀察到什麼樣的案例我們做了什麼樣的防堵我認為這個在談判應該會是一個有利的是拜託能夠再跟院內來做這樣的一個溝通那我應該知道我時間已經到了所以還有一些小問題沒有辦法詢問我就下一次再詢問謝謝\n\n10:01.926 --> 10:10.337\n好謝謝委員簡單補充我們嚴格控管席產地違規轉移這件事情我們的政府已經都已經在強化執行謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.71,"end":7.198,"text":"謝謝主席那有請這個經貿辦的這個副總代表還有這個經濟部次長謝謝會員好好"},{"start":18.874,"end":31.467,"text":"你好 這個剛剛這一個前面其實已經講了蠻多就是說關於這些關稅疊加的這件事情我現在比較想知道就是說這個是在我們經濟部國貿署上面有做這一個關稅懶人包然後有說到底我的產品會不會受到影響等等之類的"},{"start":38.054,"end":58.628,"text":"但是這邊我想要知道一下就是說其實以各個產業來講不管今天是在4月公佈還是說在近期內公佈的時候他們對於自己的這一個產品會受到多少的關稅它的本身有沒有理解就是說經濟部在跟他們溝通的這個整個過程當中這些產業他們自己知不知道這些事情"},{"start":60.656,"end":88.276,"text":"委員好這個國內產業溝通的部分是不是可以請經濟部來協助回答好 那我先講一下這其實也就是剛剛的這一個疑問就是說剛剛前面有幾位委員一直在質詢比如說這個數字到底是幾點幾%這個數字到底是幾點幾%的時候這其實是經濟部可以回答的事情對不對但是我剛剛看到很多時候都是在問對外的談判代表說到底是多少%這個數字到底是多少這種方式的質詢其實無處解決問題"},{"start":90.517,"end":113.743,"text":"這邊的確是一個經濟部比較熟悉的數字是不是請次長回答一下這個問題是 報告委員我們確實有跟所有的相關的產業協會工協會都有做座談所以其實因為他們都是業者的代表而且他們是實際有出口到美國的業者所以他們也非常清楚他們所出口的產品"},{"start":114.663,"end":130.002,"text":"產品的個別所要負擔的關稅是多少因為這件事情一直以來這幾天一直在討論疊加這個事情我們家這也是做出口的所以我們自己也都知道說到底有什麼產業有哪些產品它會受到影響"},{"start":130.783,"end":153.053,"text":"那現在呢所以我現在有疑慮的事情就是說呢今天當然我們有這樣的一個表格讓業者自己可以知道但其實就像剛剛講的很多業者他是清楚的但他可能不清楚的是什麼比如說像剛剛定宇委員提到的他所需要的資料有可能是他雖然現在知道跌價他也知道他現在面臨的這一個關稅可能是多少但他想要知道現在競爭力的狀況到底如何"},{"start":153.753,"end":169.321,"text":"對 因為這件事情它是完全在浮動的而且要掌握到每一個國家的情勢對每一個業者就不一定那麼容易但這可能就是經濟部可以協助的部分所以這是第一個就是說呢關於競爭力的比較尤其是我們台灣的產品跟譬如說跟越南的產品跟中國的產品比較起來這是第一個"},{"start":170.101,"end":193.9,"text":"第二個就是說剛剛其實在前面的質詢應該也有提到就是現在縣裡面行政院有在討論說到底要補助或者說今天要去多少的資金來做協助現在有時候我們在遇到各個產業的時候他們最常會講到的就是我現在知道比如說有900億的補助而我可能知道接下來還有200億但問題來了就是說他們常常會講說看得到吃不到"},{"start":194.82,"end":210.496,"text":"所以我覺得經濟部這邊可能有一個責任就是我們今天不是講說今天一定是要大家每個人都這一個拿得到這個金錢不是這個意思而是說當今天有這樣的一個反應的時候其實我們在第一時間公布的時候就要有一些執行的細節因為這樣"},{"start":212.518,"end":231.625,"text":"看的人或者說這些產業的人他才會在第一時間知道說OK 那我今天到底有沒有機會得到這一筆補助所以這個執行的細節我認為是重要的否則你在第一時間雖然有一個數字出來那院裡面可能也會覺得說這個數字我們已經定得算漂亮但一般的人民不一定是有感覺的"},{"start":232.205,"end":248.745,"text":"我觉得施政让人民有感这件事情无疑是重要的所以这边也是像这个当时的记者会有讲到这个十四大措施然后930亿这边有750亿下面这个是这对农业的180亿我相信农业除了传产以外农业的影响一定是大的嘛"},{"start":249.165,"end":264.868,"text":"這是在評估的這個結果所以如果針對這一個事情的細節能夠更完整的話這個才可以讓施政讓人民有感而且他可能不一定是在記者會講他可能就是在跟各個產業溝通的時候他們就已經知道甚至他們可能在這個記者會之前就已經非常清楚"},{"start":265.248,"end":280.601,"text":"那就說真的如果說今天有一些政治人物他去炒作這樣的一個輿論的時候他就不容易引起這一個社會的動盪我覺得這是蠻重要的一件事但我拉回來想要再問的就是說我剛剛講的都是對內的部分但我比較擔心的就是"},{"start":281.742,"end":300.423,"text":"這一個剛剛講的保密協定這邊可能再回到幾秒半就是說我們因為這種政治的操作最近真的非常非常的多但我相信就是因為關稅是國人所重視的議題所以呢也有很多政治人物想要操作這個議題那上個禮拜呢當然我們有做這一個保密協議的一個出示"},{"start":301.705,"end":319.922,"text":"但是因為這個內容我們沒有辦法在公開的會議繼續去討論但是那一天在內部的質詢其實很多人都已經有問這個副總談判代表了是不是可以但是在這個機會是不是因為現在是一個公開的會議能不能跟大家說明一下就是說這個在國際上面尤其在談判的過程這個保密協議的一個必要性呢"},{"start":321.93,"end":351.131,"text":"我想保密協議本身都是我們對外談判可以展開的一個重要的前提因為所有的談判都是動態發展的而我們的談判基本上各國都不會揭露它的底線所以在談判的過程當中這個底線跟產業的利益跟國家利益都是要被維護的情況之下保密協議即便我們沒有保密協議我們台灣過去在跟其他國家例如說新加坡"},{"start":352.011,"end":377.866,"text":"這些紐西蘭這些國家在進行談判即便沒有簽這個保密協議的文件我們的談判也都是全程保密更何況我們現在跟美國的談判是有一個白紙黑字的保密協議存在的所以我認為這個也是重要的事情就是說我們對於保密協議的一個出示他當然不一定說因為保密協議是重要的在談判的過程當中我們需要用這樣的東西來保障也不讓別人知道我們的底線然後說真的其實對方也是動態的兩邊都會有自己的底牌"},{"start":380.347,"end":402.225,"text":"但第二個很重要的事情就是其實在立法院他本來還是可以針對這個事情做監督所以我們監督的方式就是在上禮拜去做初試然後我們有這一個所謂的秘密會議這個立法院的委員他本來也就可以要求機密的資料不管是在一個房間過去看這個機密的資料又或者說在秘密會議裡面然後透過秘密質詢的方式所以我在去年一整年我應該也是在這邊很常秘密質詢的這個人"},{"start":404.247,"end":422.978,"text":"所以它的確還是有受到國會監督這個監督這件事情它還有後續就是等到我們今天最終的這一個結果出來了以後它應該還會有按照法律相關的文件要送到院內我覺得這應該是一個很正常的程序但是這邊我現在有稍微比較應該是個比較敏感的問題就是說"},{"start":425.399,"end":452.939,"text":"因為華郵他自己有說他引述獨家取得的貿易談判的文件他指的不是保密協定本身他講的是過程當中的這一個貿易談判文件裡面有提到一件事情就是台灣增加軍費或什麼等等之類的我們這邊是國防外交委員會我們當然對這個注重但我裡面比較關心的反而是最上面那一個就是他試圖向亞洲中東及非洲國家要求戰略檔口電信及監控網路的一個去中華"},{"start":453.86,"end":470.687,"text":"也就是說我們可以看到現在中國談判的這個結果當然它的這個疊加關稅是高的那美國想要去做對於中國相關的這個圍堵的這個態勢其實在這個過程當中在外交上面是明顯的但我現在擔心的事情就是什麼呢就是這一個是我在這一個"},{"start":473.068,"end":488.292,"text":"3月18號 今年的3月18號的總質詢那時候在問卓榮泰院長的一個內容我裡面有提到非常多就是比如說今天新加坡破貨了幫中國買輝達晶片的白手套還有台灣之前有沒有購買高階晶片的這個轉手帝的問題還有之前華為那時候有問過經濟部就是他有沒有在戰略高科技的貨品出口實體管理名單本來沒有 但後來加上去了"},{"start":498.454,"end":526.796,"text":"也就是說呢 這一些事項當時我提出了國安法第3條跟兩岸條例第9條當時在3月的時候呢我有建議院長就是說是不是能夠趕快把院版能夠趕快提出來因為有院版這件事情讓我們修法我們才可以知道比較細緻的方向在哪裡裡面也包含了就是這個所謂的貿易法第13條跟兩岸條例第35條我在3月提出這件事情最主要的原因就是因為經濟安全現在變成是一個很重要的議題"},{"start":527.817,"end":552.606,"text":"我相信在談判的過程當中對方最懼怕的一定就是台灣到底有沒有洗產地台灣有沒有今天技術的洩漏有沒有晶片相關的核心關鍵技術被拿走這是對方非常關心的問題如果說我們今天不要說因為立法院的狀況其實現在國際可能知道但院裡面有沒有針對這些提出了一些相關的修法這至少是能夠被拿出來的"},{"start":553.286,"end":577.332,"text":"所以這是那時候我三月很關心的問題我知道有些不是修法它有時候是比如說可能是經濟部自己內部規則的訂定這個在談判的過程當中一定會有利我現在要講的事情就是因為現在已經談到談到一半或是談到三分之二了接下來我們還有一點時間這一個時間希望能夠回去再建議尤其在不管是經濟部這一邊或者在陸委會今天沒有陸委會"},{"start":578.132,"end":600.845,"text":"就是針對我們的兩岸條例針對我們的國安法貿易法這些相關的規定它有一些細節可以先拿出來告訴對方講說我們有觀察到什麼樣的案例我們做了什麼樣的防堵我認為這個在談判應該會是一個有利的是拜託能夠再跟院內來做這樣的一個溝通那我應該知道我時間已經到了所以還有一些小問題沒有辦法詢問我就下一次再詢問謝謝"},{"start":601.926,"end":610.337,"text":"好 謝謝委員 簡單補充我們嚴格控管席產地違規轉移這件事情我們的政府已經都已經在強化執行 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":273,"blocks":[["沈委員伯洋：（10時31分）謝謝主席，有請經貿辦的副總代表還有經濟部次長。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好。"],["沈委員伯洋：你好。前面其實已經講了蠻多，就是關於關稅疊加的這件事情，經濟部國貿署有做關稅懶人包，針對到底我的產品會不會受到影響等等之類的。但是這邊我想要知道，其實以各個產業來講，不管是在4月公布還是在近期內公布，他們對於自己的產品會是多少關稅，他本身有沒有理解？就是經濟部在跟他們溝通的整個過程當中，這些產業自己知不知道這些事情？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好。國內產業溝通的部分，是不是可以請經濟部協助回答？"],["沈委員伯洋：好，那我先講一下，這其實也就是剛剛的疑問，前面有幾位委員一直在質詢，比如這個數字到底是幾點幾%、那個數字到底是幾點幾%，這其實是經濟部可以回答的事情，對不對？但是我剛剛看到，很多時候都是在問對外的談判代表說到底是多少%、這個數字到底是多少？這種方式的質詢其實無助於解決問題。這邊的確是經濟部也比較熟悉的一個數字，那是不是請次長回答一下這個問題？"],["江次長文若：是，報告委員，我們確實跟所有相關的產業協會、公協會都有座談，因為他們都是業者的代表，而且他們是實際有出口到國際、到美國的業者，所以也非常清楚他們所出口的產品個別所要負擔的關稅是多少。"],["沈委員伯洋：對，因為這幾天以來一直在討論疊加這個事情，我們家自己是做出口的，所以我們自己也都知道到底有什麼產業、有哪些產品會受到影響。我現在有疑慮的事情就是，今天當然我們有這樣的一個表格，讓業者自己可以知道，但其實就像剛剛講的，很多業者是清楚的，但他可能不清楚的是什麼？比如像剛剛定宇委員提到的，他所需要的資料有可能是，他雖然現在知道疊加，也知道他現在面臨的關稅可能是多少，但他想要知道現在競爭力的狀況到底如何。因為這件事情是完全在浮動的，而且要掌握到每一個國家的情勢，對每一個業者而言就不一定那麼容易，這可能就是經濟部可以協助的部分。所以關於競爭力的比較，尤其是我們臺灣的產品，比如跟越南的產品、跟中國的產品比較起來，這是第一個，。","第二個，前面的質詢應該也有提到，現在院裡面、行政院有在討論，到底要補助或者今天要有多少的資金來協助，現在有時候我們遇到各個產業，他們最常會講到的就是，我現在知道比如有900億的補助，我可能知道接下來還有200億。但問題來了，他們常常會講看得到、吃不到。所以我覺得經濟部這邊可能有一個責任，我們不是講今天一定是要大家、每個人都拿得到這筆金錢，不是這個意思，而是說當今天有這樣的一個反映，其實我們在第一時間公布的時候就要有一些執行的細節，因為這樣子的話看的人或者這些產業的人，才會在第一時間知道今天他到底有沒有機會得到這一筆補助。所以這個執行的細節我認為是重要的，否則你在第一時間雖然有一個數字出來，院裡面可能也會覺得這個數字我們已經訂得算漂亮，但一般人民不一定是有感覺的，我覺得施政讓人民有感這件事情無疑是重要的。","像當時的記者會也講到這十四大措施，然後930億、這邊有750億、針對農業的180億，我相信除了傳產以外，農業的影響一定是大的，這是評估的結果。所以如果針對這個事情的細節能夠更完整的話，施政才能讓人民有感，而且他不一定是在記者會講，可能是在跟各個產業溝通的時候他們就已經知道，甚至他們可能在這個記者會之前就已經非常清楚。說真的，如果今天有一些政治人物要去炒作這樣一個輿論的時候，就不容易引起社會的動盪，我覺得這是蠻重要的一件事。","但我拉回來想要再問的就是，我剛剛講的都是對內的部分，我比較擔心的是，剛剛講的保密協定，我再回到經貿辦的部分，因為這種政治的操作最近真的非常非常地多，但我相信就因為關稅是國人所重視的議題，所以也有很多政治人物想要操作這個議題。上個禮拜當然我們有做這一個保密協議的出示，因為這個內容我們沒有辦法在公開的會議去討論，但是那一天在內部的質詢，其實很多人都已經有問副總談判代表了。是不是可以藉這個機會，因為現在是一個公開的會議，能不能跟大家說明一下，在國際上面，尤其在談判的過程，這個保密協議的必要性在哪裡？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想保密協議本身都是我們對外談判可以展開的一個重要前提，因為所有的談判都是動態發展的，而我們的談判，基本上各國都不會揭露他的底線。所以在談判的過程中，這個底線跟產業利益、跟國家利益都是要被維護的情況之下，即便我們沒有保密協議，臺灣過去跟其他國家例如新加坡、紐西蘭這些國家進行談判，即便沒有簽這個保密協議的文件，我們的談判也都是全程保密，更何況我們現在跟美國的談判是有一個白紙黑字的保密協議存在。"],["沈委員伯洋：所以我認為這個也是重要的事情，我們對於保密協議的出示，當然不一定說……因為保密協議是重要的，在談判過程當中我們需要用這樣的東西來保障，也不讓別人知道我們的底線，然後說真的，其實對方也是動態的，兩邊都會有自己的底牌。","第二個很重要的事情就是，其實立法院本來還是可以針對這個事情做監督，所以我們監督的方式，就是在上禮拜做出示，而且是所謂的秘密會議，立法院的委員本來也就可以要求機密的資料，不管是放在一個房間，過去看這個機密的資料，又或者在秘密會議裡面透過秘密質詢的方式，去年一整年，我應該也是在這邊很常秘密質詢的人。所以它的確還是有受到國會監督，而監督這件事情，它還有後續，就是等到最終的結果出來了以後，應該按照法律，相關文件還要送到院內。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：是。"],["沈委員伯洋：我覺得這應該是一個很正常的程序，但是這邊我現在有比較敏感的問題，因為華郵自己說它引述獨家取得的貿易談判文件，它指的不是保密協定本身，它講的是過程當中的這一個貿易談判文件，裡面有提到一件事情，就是臺灣增加軍費或什麼等等之類的。我們這邊是外交及國防委員會，我們當然對這個注重，但裡面我比較關心的反而是他試圖向亞洲、中東及非洲國家，要求戰略港口及電信和監控網絡「去中化」。也就是說，我們可以看到，現在中國談判的結果，當然他的疊加關稅是高的，那美國想要去做對於中國相關圍堵的這個態勢，其實在這個過程當中，在外交上面是明顯的。","但我現在擔心的事情是什麼呢？這是我今年3月18號的總質詢那時候在問卓榮泰院長的一個內容，我裡面有提到非常多的就是，比如今天新加坡破獲了幫中國買輝達晶片的白手套，還有臺灣之前有沒有購買高階晶片轉手的問題，還有那時候我問過經濟部，之前華為有沒有在戰略高科技的貨品出口實體管理名單，本來沒有，但後來加上去了。也就是這一些事項當時我提出國安法第三條跟兩岸條例第九條，在3月的時候，我有建議院長是不是能夠趕快把院版提出來，因為有院版這件事情讓我們修法才可以知道比較細緻的方向在哪裡，其中也包含貿易法第十三條跟兩岸條例第三十五條。","我在3月提出這件事情最主要的原因就是因為經濟安全現在變成是一個很重要的議題，我相信在談判的過程當中，對方最懼怕的一定就是臺灣到底有沒有洗產地，臺灣有沒有晶片技術的洩漏、有沒有晶片相關的核心關鍵技術被拿走，這是對方非常關心的問題。因為立法院的狀況其實現在國際可能知道，但院裡面有沒有針對這些提出相關的修法，至少是能夠被拿出來的嘛，這是我在3月很關心的問題。我知道有些不是修法，比如說，可能是經濟部自己內部規則的訂定，這個在談判過程當中一定會有利。","我現在要講的事情就是，因為現在已經談到一半，或是談到三分之二了，接下來我們還有一點時間，這一個時間希望能夠回去再建議，尤其不管是在經濟部這一邊，或者在陸委會，但今天陸委會沒有列席，針對兩岸條例、國安法、貿易法這些相關的規定，有一些細節可以先拿出來告訴對方，我們有觀察到什麼樣的案例，我們做了什麼樣的防堵，我認為這個在談判上應該會是有利的，拜託再跟院內來做這樣的溝通。我知道時間已經到了，還有一些小問題沒有辦法詢問，就下一次再詢問，謝謝。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員。簡單補充，我們是一樣，嚴格控管洗產地、違規轉運這件事情，政府都已經在強化執行，謝謝。"],["沈委員伯洋：感謝，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝沈伯洋召委的質詢。","接下來由馬文君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-25","speakers":["黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","賴士葆","林倩綺","黃國昌","陳冠廷","林憶君","林楚茵","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-14"],"gazette_id":"1147301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、經濟部次長、財政部次長、農業部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表\n報告「因應台美關稅及國際局勢變化台美關係互動情形，暨俄烏戰事與以哈衝突外交援助概\n況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147301_00001"}}}