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我們也是發現這個問題但絕對不會在質詢當中就解決不過沒關係我們等一下會跟你們討論我們希望後續有沒有機會在兩個月內跟我們相關報告來 我們來看下一張我剛剛答應主席我不會超時\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 228.817, \"end\": 228.937, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 228.937, \"end\": 229.037, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 229.037, \"end\": 229.337, \"score\": 0.652}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 229.337, \"end\": 229.457, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 229.457, \"end\": 229.537, \"score\": 0.561}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 229.537, \"end\": 229.877, \"score\": 0.672}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 229.877, \"end\": 230.017, \"score\": 0.752}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 230.017, \"end\": 230.177, \"score\": 0.778}, {\"word\": \"思\", \"start\": 230.177, \"end\": 230.337, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"考\", \"start\": 230.337, \"end\": 231.558, \"score\": 0.773}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 231.558, \"end\": 231.678, \"score\": 0.6}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 231.678, 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00:00:08,995\n好謝謝主席大家辛苦了今天有請人先請人事長跟權敘部謝謝麻煩權敘部人事長\n\n2\n00:00:16,135 --> 00:00:34,341\n好兩位早安我想要先就今天的專題跟兩位分享一個案例就發生在我辦公室我辦公室的訪客呢在7月6日之前他們是來討論事情的地方的陳情那他的包包上就是放上現在這個照片這樣結果就被立法院中心大樓一樓的警衛\n\n3\n00:00:36,903 --> 00:00:56,048\n他在簽名的時候登記他的身份的時候呢這個警衛就請他把這個飄帶拿下來他說因為要遵守行政中立我想要請兩位幫大家解釋一下行政中立到底是誰要遵守的為什麼警衛的大樓中心大樓的警衛可以對我們的訪客做出這樣的事情好\n\n4\n00:00:57,887 --> 00:01:18,815\n到底行政中立是誰要遵守行政中立根據行政中立法規範主體對象是公務人員就算這個中興大樓的警衛他不是公務人員他是其他約聘也好但是他是屬於這個公務機關裡面聘請的人員所以是他要遵守行政中立對不對所以不是叫訪客遵守行政中立嗎\n\n5\n00:01:19,936 --> 00:01:34,475\n我們的新興中立法主要是對象就是公務人員但是確實對機關本身的場域也是另外就是說在選舉期間就選舉期間裡面不適合在機關的機關辦公的場域裡面做這樣一個\n\n6\n00:01:37,239 --> 00:01:56,941\n可是他是訪客所以如果按照你這句話立法院本身跟一般的行政機關真的是很不一樣立法院做一個全民的這個民主政治的一個場域裡面應該這樣講他的空間應該會有所謂純辦公空間跟跟所謂這個\n\n7\n00:01:58,382 --> 00:02:15,880\n比較是屬於公共的空間所以如果是公共的空間基本上如果按照我們的一個理解因為我們的理解辦公場域是純辦公的一個場域不過這個解釋權我想立法院應該我們最後都會尊重立法院的一個怎麼去解釋這個事情\n\n8\n00:02:16,380 --> 00:02:31,927\n好可是就我們的理解也按照您剛剛的回答行政中立應該是相關機構裡面的公務人員或者是約聘人員而不是對訪客來訪的訪客甚至是陳情的民眾所以我們當天確實有請立法院這邊做了處理也做了交代\n\n9\n00:02:32,347 --> 00:02:48,960\n不過我們當時掉了我們也希望跟他們掉錄影帶不過花了一些時間不過因為事情已經過了我認為我們還是要就行政中立這件事情好好來探討那我們要來看一下目前在公務人員行政中立法第16條裡面如果公務人員違反所謂的行政中立法\n\n10\n00:02:49,400 --> 00:03:10,869\n他會有懲戒或者是懲處這都是有法律效果的對嗎那這不法就像您剛說他是針對公務人員的部分他不涉及所謂政務人員可是如果反過來有政務人員要求我們的公務人員做出疑似行政不中立的事情那我們的公務人員要如何自救\n\n11\n00:03:11,867 --> 00:03:27,969\n他可以當然是可以拒絕那如果長官這個不聽的話他可以向他的上級機關的長官提出這個類似這個向他上級長官求救上級機關的長官求救我們有沒有相關的保護機制來協助公務人員\n\n12\n00:03:30,395 --> 00:03:47,516\n所謂保護機制就是說這個吹哨機制在公務員內部的這個狀況或是像他長官檢舉的這個過程當中他要如何確保他的這個檢舉的狀態是讓他感到安全的是沒有疑慮的曾委員提的這個想法確實是一個\n\n13\n00:03:48,817 --> 00:04:07,900\n可能我們可以再進一步思考目前的條文確實沒有特別談到這但也許在別的法律裡面是不是也有這樣的本來就有這個這個容許我回去跟同仁再了解一下沒錯我們也是發現這個問題但絕對不會在質詢當中就解決不過沒關係我們等一下會跟你們討論我們希望後續有沒有機會在兩個月內跟我們相關報告來我們來看下一張我剛剛答應主席我不會超時\n\n14\n00:04:17,262 --> 00:04:38,539\n目前在行政中立法第十條有寫到來看一下這個新的題目剛剛那個題目你說你待會去研究我們之後再來討論接下來我要講的是在公務人員的第十條行政中立法第十條寫到公務人員對於公職人員的選舉罷免公民投票不得利用職務上的權利機會或方法要求他人不行使投票權\n\n15\n00:04:39,299 --> 00:04:55,837\n会为一定之行使可是到了98年发布的行政中立法实行细则第七条里面呢就排除了罢免的提案跟联署我们后来去看的立法说明立法说明当然有它的理由理由我就不再赘述了我写在头影片上面\n\n16\n00:04:56,698 --> 00:05:11,733\n可是從最近的很多罷免案的檢討當中我們看到有非常多行政上的干預跟爭議其實一直出現所以目前我們看到其實有韓式可是在目前的法規框架裡面\n\n17\n00:05:12,854 --> 00:05:26,246\n卻等於讓公務人員會陷入什麼情況呢對於到底罷免的提案連署是不是適用行政中立法我覺得這個是不是也要後續再來討論委員執教沒有錯現在這整部法律主體都在談選舉跟公投\n\n18\n00:05:28,628 --> 00:05:54,315\n原則上原來一開始就是純粹談全局啦後來因為有公投所以我們把公投放進去了那我想因為實施了一個變化如果這一次有一些罷免或者罷免如果是一個未來或者過去有一些覺得需要也把它更細緻化的東西我想我們會願意這部分回去想想看因為整部法律裡面在第10條整部法律提到罷免就只有在第10條啦\n\n19\n00:05:55,716 --> 00:06:10,374\n對所以我想啦我們就是不要只有講政治我們還是回到法規範所以我想我們的要求非常簡單就是剛剛您說的兩個我們希望有機會兩個月內根據我剛剛提出這三個問題你們做出一些回應跟幫我們做出相關評估報告可以嗎\n\n20\n00:06:11,736 --> 00:06:16,357\n時間會不會太趕我們的一些想法我沒有辦法到一個細部的東西那就再回復我們辦公室可以嗎再回你辦公室好謝謝全序部那這邊這邊全序部請休息謝謝我請人長人長我每次看到你都要跟你討論公務人員育兒友善的問題希望你每次都有考古題的概念\n\n21\n00:06:30,601 --> 00:06:45,892\n我這次幫你找到一個題目我覺得其實也是很多公務人員具體的感受目前我們在公務人員子女教育補助的部分國中小一學期給500塊其實這個是民國85年就存在的表格\n\n22\n00:06:47,553 --> 00:07:08,609\n沒關係你很忙我知道我們不可能一個一個回頭看但是我們現在發現這個可能性有沒有機會來做調整怎麼說我們來看一下教育部現在相關的高中免學費的政策或是大專檢免學費的政策你們人總都有非常友善的發函提醒公務人員要注意補助申請的進合\n\n23\n00:07:10,410 --> 00:07:31,768\n可是當舊的這個設計就是我剛說民國85年這有辦法喔一直到現在新的政策那我知道你們有通寒來處理可是除了通寒之外有沒有檢討這個500塊的機會或者是檢討其他相關政策然後讓公務人員真的覺得我在為國家賣命的時候國家真的也是友善我們在育兒政策上\n\n24\n00:07:33,092 --> 00:07:46,296\n好謝謝委員這個議題啦那我覺得這也是我們應該要去努力的地方啦那我在這裡承諾委員我們回去會盡快去針對這個議題因為說這個500戸買了30噸的行情跟現有的落差是蠻大的啦\n\n25\n00:07:56,219 --> 00:08:06,124\n那我們除了針對國中小這個部分我們會整體再盤一下因為大專的部分我們已經有補助三萬五其他的部分我們整體再來討論看看好怎麼說下一張其實我就是簡單跟人長\n\n26\n00:08:14,088 --> 00:08:35,479\n分享一下啦目前的教育所需要的各種可能性其實不是只有落在學校裡頭有非常多一般的爸爸媽媽對於教育的想像可能擴及到學校以外會產生非常非常多的費用就算在學校裡面喔光是我們的社團活動啦課後班啦這些都還屬於在校內的喔其實也都花很多錢\n\n27\n00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:54,314\n像你說的我們現在有高中到大學我們有什麼可能去想想有什麼可能的資源可以讓我們這些公務人員他們的年紀比較小的時候他們有感受到政府的善意好不好所以最後一張就具體的建議拜託人長這邊你們回去討論一下\n\n28\n00:08:58,317 --> 00:09:16,085\n目前公務人員子女教育補助的設計數額有沒有合理然後跟目前我們教育部已經給的補助你們跟他們討論看看還有什麼設計的可能性跟教育部討論因為教育部這邊可能也會有相關經費需要支應還有就是目前教育的補助跟學校綁定的狀況我們怎麼樣讓現在的這些年輕世代的公務員爸爸媽媽真的覺得政府有在照顧我們\n\n29\n00:09:23,909 --> 00:09:30,626\n有考慮到當代的需求好不好就是我剛剛跟你講85年到現在那這個有機會在兩個月內提供相關評估報告嗎\n\n30\n00:09:33,931 --> 00:09:52,070\n至少有會議進度好不好好啦我們會朝這個目標來因為喔要跟合調的單位對要比較多啦好至少兩個月內要有第一次相關會議啦好不好好啦沒問題讓我們知道一下你們彼此對這件事情的見解至少要先有見解然後可能性然後之後再來推進度這樣好不好好沒問題好謝謝主席\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4420\t8995\t好 謝謝主席 大家辛苦了今天有請人 先請人事長跟權敘部 謝謝麻煩權敘部 人事長\n16135\t34341\t好兩位早安我想要先就今天的專題跟兩位分享一個案例就發生在我辦公室我辦公室的訪客呢在7月6日之前他們是來討論事情的地方的陳情那他的包包上就是放上現在這個照片這樣結果就被立法院中心大樓一樓的警衛\n36903\t56048\t他在簽名的時候登記他的身份的時候呢這個警衛就請他把這個飄帶拿下來他說因為要遵守行政中立我想要請兩位幫大家解釋一下行政中立到底是誰要遵守的為什麼警衛的大樓中心大樓的警衛可以對我們的訪客做出這樣的事情好\n57887\t78815\t到底行政中立是誰要遵守行政中立根據行政中立法規範主體對象是公務人員就算這個中興大樓的警衛他不是公務人員他是其他約聘也好但是他是屬於這個公務機關裡面聘請的人員所以是他要遵守行政中立對不對所以不是叫訪客遵守行政中立嗎\n79936\t94475\t我們的新興中立法主要是對象就是公務人員但是確實對機關本身的場域也是另外就是說在選舉期間就選舉期間裡面不適合在機關的機關辦公的場域裡面做這樣一個\n97239\t116941\t可是他是訪客所以如果按照你這句話立法院本身跟一般的行政機關真的是很不一樣立法院做一個全民的這個民主政治的一個場域裡面應該這樣講他的空間應該會有所謂純辦公空間跟跟所謂這個\n118382\t135880\t比較是屬於公共的空間所以如果是公共的空間基本上如果按照我們的一個理解因為我們的理解辦公場域是純辦公的一個場域不過這個解釋權我想立法院應該我們最後都會尊重立法院的一個怎麼去解釋這個事情\n136380\t151927\t好 可是就我們的理解也按照您剛剛的回答行政中立應該是相關機構裡面的公務人員或者是約聘人員而不是對訪客來訪的訪客甚至是陳情的民眾所以我們當天確實有請立法院這邊做了處理也做了交代\n152347\t168960\t不過我們當時掉了我們也希望跟他們掉錄影帶不過花了一些時間不過因為事情已經過了我認為我們還是要就行政中立這件事情好好來探討那我們要來看一下目前在公務人員行政中立法第16條裡面如果公務人員違反所謂的行政中立法\n169400\t190869\t他會有懲戒或者是懲處這都是有法律效果的對嗎那這不法就像您剛說他是針對公務人員的部分他不涉及所謂政務人員可是如果反過來有政務人員要求我們的公務人員做出疑似行政不中立的事情那我們的公務人員要如何自救\n191867\t207969\t他可以當然是可以拒絕那如果長官這個不聽的話他可以向他的上級機關的長官提出這個類似這個向他上級長官求救上級機關的長官求救我們有沒有相關的保護機制來協助公務人員\n210395\t227516\t所謂保護機制就是說這個吹哨機制在公務員內部的這個狀況或是像他長官檢舉的這個過程當中他要如何確保他的這個檢舉的狀態是讓他感到安全的是沒有疑慮的曾委員提的這個想法確實是一個\n228817\t247900\t可能我們可以再進一步思考目前的條文確實沒有特別談到這但也許在別的法律裡面是不是也有這樣的本來就有這個這個容許我回去跟同仁再了解一下沒錯 我們也是發現這個問題但絕對不會在質詢當中就解決不過沒關係我們等一下會跟你們討論我們希望後續有沒有機會在兩個月內跟我們相關報告來 我們來看下一張我剛剛答應主席我不會超時\n257262\t278539\t目前在行政中立法第十條有寫到來看一下這個新的題目剛剛那個題目你說你待會去研究我們之後再來討論接下來我要講的是在公務人員的第十條行政中立法第十條寫到公務人員對於公職人員的選舉罷免公民投票不得利用職務上的權利機會或方法要求他人不行使投票權\n279299\t295837\t会为一定之行使可是到了98年发布的行政中立法实行细则第七条里面呢就排除了罢免的提案跟联署我们后来去看的立法说明立法说明当然有它的理由理由我就不再赘述了我写在头影片上面\n296698\t311733\t可是從最近的很多罷免案的檢討當中我們看到有非常多行政上的干預跟爭議其實一直出現所以目前我們看到其實有韓式可是在目前的法規框架裡面\n312854\t326246\t卻等於讓公務人員會陷入什麼情況呢對於到底罷免的提案連署是不是適用行政中立法我覺得這個是不是也要後續再來討論委員執教沒有錯現在這整部法律主體都在談選舉跟公投\n328628\t354315\t原則上原來一開始就是純粹談全局啦後來因為有公投所以我們把公投放進去了那我想因為實施了一個變化如果這一次有一些罷免或者罷免如果是一個未來或者過去有一些覺得需要也把它更細緻化的東西我想我們會願意這部分回去想想看因為整部法律裡面在第10條整部法律提到罷免就只有在第10條啦\n355716\t370374\t對所以我想啦我們就是不要只有講政治我們還是回到法規範所以我想我們的要求非常簡單就是剛剛您說的兩個我們希望有機會兩個月內根據我剛剛提出這三個問題你們做出一些回應跟幫我們做出相關評估報告可以嗎\n371736\t376357\t時間會不會太趕 我們的一些想法我沒有辦法到一個細部的東西那就再回復我們辦公室可以嗎 再回你辦公室好 謝謝 全序部那這邊這邊全序部請休息 謝謝我請人長人長我每次看到你都要跟你討論公務人員育兒友善的問題希望你每次都有考古題的概念\n390601\t405892\t我這次幫你找到一個題目我覺得其實也是很多公務人員具體的感受目前我們在公務人員子女教育補助的部分國中小一學期給500塊其實這個是民國85年就存在的表格\n407553\t428609\t沒關係 你很忙 我知道我們不可能一個一個回頭看但是我們現在發現這個可能性有沒有機會來做調整怎麼說我們來看一下教育部現在相關的高中免學費的政策或是大專檢免學費的政策你們人總都有非常友善的發函提醒公務人員要注意補助申請的進合\n430410\t451768\t可是當舊的這個設計就是我剛說民國85年這有辦法喔一直到現在新的政策那我知道你們有通寒來處理可是除了通寒之外有沒有檢討這個500塊的機會或者是檢討其他相關政策然後讓公務人員真的覺得我在為國家賣命的時候國家真的也是友善我們在育兒政策上\n453092\t466296\t好 謝謝委員這個議題啦 那我覺得這也是我們應該要去努力的地方啦那我在這裡承諾委員我們回去會盡快去針對這個議題因為說這個500戸買了30噸的行情跟現有的落差是蠻大的啦\n476219\t486124\t那我們除了針對國中小這個部分我們會整體再盤一下 因為大專的部分我們已經有補助三萬五 其他的部分我們整體再來討論看看好 怎麼說 下一張其實我就是簡單跟人長\n494088\t515479\t分享一下啦目前的教育所需要的各種可能性其實不是只有落在學校裡頭有非常多一般的爸爸媽媽對於教育的想像可能擴及到學校以外會產生非常非常多的費用就算在學校裡面喔光是我們的社團活動啦課後班啦這些都還屬於在校內的喔其實也都花很多錢\n517480\t534314\t像你說的 我們現在有高中到大學我們有什麼可能去想想有什麼可能的資源可以讓我們這些公務人員他們的年紀比較小的時候他們有感受到政府的善意 好不好所以 最後一張就具體的建議 拜託人長這邊你們回去討論一下\n538317\t556085\t目前公務人員子女教育補助的設計數額有沒有合理然後跟目前我們教育部已經給的補助你們跟他們討論看看還有什麼設計的可能性跟教育部討論因為教育部這邊可能也會有相關經費需要支應還有就是目前教育的補助跟學校綁定的狀況我們怎麼樣讓現在的這些年輕世代的公務員爸爸媽媽真的覺得政府有在照顧我們\n563909\t570626\t有考慮到當代的需求好不好就是我剛剛跟你講85年到現在那這個有機會在兩個月內提供相關評估報告嗎\n573931\t592070\t至少有會議進度 好不好好啦 我們會朝這個目標來因為喔 要跟合調的單位對 要比較多啦好 至少兩個月內要有第一次相關會議啦 好不好好啦 沒問題讓我們知道一下你們彼此對這件事情的見解至少要先有見解然後可能性然後之後再來推進度這樣好不好好 沒問題好 謝謝主席\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 大家辛苦了今天有請人 先請人事長跟權敘部 謝謝麻煩權敘部 人事長\n好兩位早安我想要先就今天的專題跟兩位分享一個案例就發生在我辦公室我辦公室的訪客呢在7月6日之前他們是來討論事情的地方的陳情那他的包包上就是放上現在這個照片這樣結果就被立法院中心大樓一樓的警衛\n他在簽名的時候登記他的身份的時候呢這個警衛就請他把這個飄帶拿下來他說因為要遵守行政中立我想要請兩位幫大家解釋一下行政中立到底是誰要遵守的為什麼警衛的大樓中心大樓的警衛可以對我們的訪客做出這樣的事情好\n到底行政中立是誰要遵守行政中立根據行政中立法規範主體對象是公務人員就算這個中興大樓的警衛他不是公務人員他是其他約聘也好但是他是屬於這個公務機關裡面聘請的人員所以是他要遵守行政中立對不對所以不是叫訪客遵守行政中立嗎\n我們的新興中立法主要是對象就是公務人員但是確實對機關本身的場域也是另外就是說在選舉期間就選舉期間裡面不適合在機關的機關辦公的場域裡面做這樣一個\n可是他是訪客所以如果按照你這句話立法院本身跟一般的行政機關真的是很不一樣立法院做一個全民的這個民主政治的一個場域裡面應該這樣講他的空間應該會有所謂純辦公空間跟跟所謂這個\n比較是屬於公共的空間所以如果是公共的空間基本上如果按照我們的一個理解因為我們的理解辦公場域是純辦公的一個場域不過這個解釋權我想立法院應該我們最後都會尊重立法院的一個怎麼去解釋這個事情\n好 可是就我們的理解也按照您剛剛的回答行政中立應該是相關機構裡面的公務人員或者是約聘人員而不是對訪客來訪的訪客甚至是陳情的民眾所以我們當天確實有請立法院這邊做了處理也做了交代\n不過我們當時掉了我們也希望跟他們掉錄影帶不過花了一些時間不過因為事情已經過了我認為我們還是要就行政中立這件事情好好來探討那我們要來看一下目前在公務人員行政中立法第16條裡面如果公務人員違反所謂的行政中立法\n他會有懲戒或者是懲處這都是有法律效果的對嗎那這不法就像您剛說他是針對公務人員的部分他不涉及所謂政務人員可是如果反過來有政務人員要求我們的公務人員做出疑似行政不中立的事情那我們的公務人員要如何自救\n他可以當然是可以拒絕那如果長官這個不聽的話他可以向他的上級機關的長官提出這個類似這個向他上級長官求救上級機關的長官求救我們有沒有相關的保護機制來協助公務人員\n所謂保護機制就是說這個吹哨機制在公務員內部的這個狀況或是像他長官檢舉的這個過程當中他要如何確保他的這個檢舉的狀態是讓他感到安全的是沒有疑慮的曾委員提的這個想法確實是一個\n可能我們可以再進一步思考目前的條文確實沒有特別談到這但也許在別的法律裡面是不是也有這樣的本來就有這個這個容許我回去跟同仁再了解一下沒錯 我們也是發現這個問題但絕對不會在質詢當中就解決不過沒關係我們等一下會跟你們討論我們希望後續有沒有機會在兩個月內跟我們相關報告來 我們來看下一張我剛剛答應主席我不會超時\n目前在行政中立法第十條有寫到來看一下這個新的題目剛剛那個題目你說你待會去研究我們之後再來討論接下來我要講的是在公務人員的第十條行政中立法第十條寫到公務人員對於公職人員的選舉罷免公民投票不得利用職務上的權利機會或方法要求他人不行使投票權\n会为一定之行使可是到了98年发布的行政中立法实行细则第七条里面呢就排除了罢免的提案跟联署我们后来去看的立法说明立法说明当然有它的理由理由我就不再赘述了我写在头影片上面\n可是從最近的很多罷免案的檢討當中我們看到有非常多行政上的干預跟爭議其實一直出現所以目前我們看到其實有韓式可是在目前的法規框架裡面\n卻等於讓公務人員會陷入什麼情況呢對於到底罷免的提案連署是不是適用行政中立法我覺得這個是不是也要後續再來討論委員執教沒有錯現在這整部法律主體都在談選舉跟公投\n原則上原來一開始就是純粹談全局啦後來因為有公投所以我們把公投放進去了那我想因為實施了一個變化如果這一次有一些罷免或者罷免如果是一個未來或者過去有一些覺得需要也把它更細緻化的東西我想我們會願意這部分回去想想看因為整部法律裡面在第10條整部法律提到罷免就只有在第10條啦\n對所以我想啦我們就是不要只有講政治我們還是回到法規範所以我想我們的要求非常簡單就是剛剛您說的兩個我們希望有機會兩個月內根據我剛剛提出這三個問題你們做出一些回應跟幫我們做出相關評估報告可以嗎\n時間會不會太趕 我們的一些想法我沒有辦法到一個細部的東西那就再回復我們辦公室可以嗎 再回你辦公室好 謝謝 全序部那這邊這邊全序部請休息 謝謝我請人長人長我每次看到你都要跟你討論公務人員育兒友善的問題希望你每次都有考古題的概念\n我這次幫你找到一個題目我覺得其實也是很多公務人員具體的感受目前我們在公務人員子女教育補助的部分國中小一學期給500塊其實這個是民國85年就存在的表格\n沒關係 你很忙 我知道我們不可能一個一個回頭看但是我們現在發現這個可能性有沒有機會來做調整怎麼說我們來看一下教育部現在相關的高中免學費的政策或是大專檢免學費的政策你們人總都有非常友善的發函提醒公務人員要注意補助申請的進合\n可是當舊的這個設計就是我剛說民國85年這有辦法喔一直到現在新的政策那我知道你們有通寒來處理可是除了通寒之外有沒有檢討這個500塊的機會或者是檢討其他相關政策然後讓公務人員真的覺得我在為國家賣命的時候國家真的也是友善我們在育兒政策上\n好 謝謝委員這個議題啦 那我覺得這也是我們應該要去努力的地方啦那我在這裡承諾委員我們回去會盡快去針對這個議題因為說這個500戸買了30噸的行情跟現有的落差是蠻大的啦\n那我們除了針對國中小這個部分我們會整體再盤一下 因為大專的部分我們已經有補助三萬五 其他的部分我們整體再來討論看看好 怎麼說 下一張其實我就是簡單跟人長\n分享一下啦目前的教育所需要的各種可能性其實不是只有落在學校裡頭有非常多一般的爸爸媽媽對於教育的想像可能擴及到學校以外會產生非常非常多的費用就算在學校裡面喔光是我們的社團活動啦課後班啦這些都還屬於在校內的喔其實也都花很多錢\n像你說的 我們現在有高中到大學我們有什麼可能去想想有什麼可能的資源可以讓我們這些公務人員他們的年紀比較小的時候他們有感受到政府的善意 好不好所以 最後一張就具體的建議 拜託人長這邊你們回去討論一下\n目前公務人員子女教育補助的設計數額有沒有合理然後跟目前我們教育部已經給的補助你們跟他們討論看看還有什麼設計的可能性跟教育部討論因為教育部這邊可能也會有相關經費需要支應還有就是目前教育的補助跟學校綁定的狀況我們怎麼樣讓現在的這些年輕世代的公務員爸爸媽媽真的覺得政府有在照顧我們\n有考慮到當代的需求好不好就是我剛剛跟你講85年到現在那這個有機會在兩個月內提供相關評估報告嗎\n至少有會議進度 好不好好啦 我們會朝這個目標來因為喔 要跟合調的單位對 要比較多啦好 至少兩個月內要有第一次相關會議啦 好不好好啦 沒問題讓我們知道一下你們彼此對這件事情的見解至少要先有見解然後可能性然後之後再來推進度這樣好不好好 沒問題好 謝謝主席\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.420 --> 00:08.995\n好謝謝主席大家辛苦了今天有請人先請人事長跟權敘部謝謝麻煩權敘部人事長\n\n00:16.135 --> 00:34.341\n好兩位早安我想要先就今天的專題跟兩位分享一個案例就發生在我辦公室我辦公室的訪客呢在7月6日之前他們是來討論事情的地方的陳情那他的包包上就是放上現在這個照片這樣結果就被立法院中心大樓一樓的警衛\n\n00:36.903 --> 00:56.048\n他在簽名的時候登記他的身份的時候呢這個警衛就請他把這個飄帶拿下來他說因為要遵守行政中立我想要請兩位幫大家解釋一下行政中立到底是誰要遵守的為什麼警衛的大樓中心大樓的警衛可以對我們的訪客做出這樣的事情好\n\n00:57.887 --> 01:18.815\n到底行政中立是誰要遵守行政中立根據行政中立法規範主體對象是公務人員就算這個中興大樓的警衛他不是公務人員他是其他約聘也好但是他是屬於這個公務機關裡面聘請的人員所以是他要遵守行政中立對不對所以不是叫訪客遵守行政中立嗎\n\n01:19.936 --> 01:34.475\n我們的新興中立法主要是對象就是公務人員但是確實對機關本身的場域也是另外就是說在選舉期間就選舉期間裡面不適合在機關的機關辦公的場域裡面做這樣一個\n\n01:37.239 --> 01:56.941\n可是他是訪客所以如果按照你這句話立法院本身跟一般的行政機關真的是很不一樣立法院做一個全民的這個民主政治的一個場域裡面應該這樣講他的空間應該會有所謂純辦公空間跟跟所謂這個\n\n01:58.382 --> 02:15.880\n比較是屬於公共的空間所以如果是公共的空間基本上如果按照我們的一個理解因為我們的理解辦公場域是純辦公的一個場域不過這個解釋權我想立法院應該我們最後都會尊重立法院的一個怎麼去解釋這個事情\n\n02:16.380 --> 02:31.927\n好可是就我們的理解也按照您剛剛的回答行政中立應該是相關機構裡面的公務人員或者是約聘人員而不是對訪客來訪的訪客甚至是陳情的民眾所以我們當天確實有請立法院這邊做了處理也做了交代\n\n02:32.347 --> 02:48.960\n不過我們當時掉了我們也希望跟他們掉錄影帶不過花了一些時間不過因為事情已經過了我認為我們還是要就行政中立這件事情好好來探討那我們要來看一下目前在公務人員行政中立法第16條裡面如果公務人員違反所謂的行政中立法\n\n02:49.400 --> 03:10.869\n他會有懲戒或者是懲處這都是有法律效果的對嗎那這不法就像您剛說他是針對公務人員的部分他不涉及所謂政務人員可是如果反過來有政務人員要求我們的公務人員做出疑似行政不中立的事情那我們的公務人員要如何自救\n\n03:11.867 --> 03:27.969\n他可以當然是可以拒絕那如果長官這個不聽的話他可以向他的上級機關的長官提出這個類似這個向他上級長官求救上級機關的長官求救我們有沒有相關的保護機制來協助公務人員\n\n03:30.395 --> 03:47.516\n所謂保護機制就是說這個吹哨機制在公務員內部的這個狀況或是像他長官檢舉的這個過程當中他要如何確保他的這個檢舉的狀態是讓他感到安全的是沒有疑慮的曾委員提的這個想法確實是一個\n\n03:48.817 --> 04:07.900\n可能我們可以再進一步思考目前的條文確實沒有特別談到這但也許在別的法律裡面是不是也有這樣的本來就有這個這個容許我回去跟同仁再了解一下沒錯我們也是發現這個問題但絕對不會在質詢當中就解決不過沒關係我們等一下會跟你們討論我們希望後續有沒有機會在兩個月內跟我們相關報告來我們來看下一張我剛剛答應主席我不會超時\n\n04:17.262 --> 04:38.539\n目前在行政中立法第十條有寫到來看一下這個新的題目剛剛那個題目你說你待會去研究我們之後再來討論接下來我要講的是在公務人員的第十條行政中立法第十條寫到公務人員對於公職人員的選舉罷免公民投票不得利用職務上的權利機會或方法要求他人不行使投票權\n\n04:39.299 --> 04:55.837\n会为一定之行使可是到了98年发布的行政中立法实行细则第七条里面呢就排除了罢免的提案跟联署我们后来去看的立法说明立法说明当然有它的理由理由我就不再赘述了我写在头影片上面\n\n04:56.698 --> 05:11.733\n可是從最近的很多罷免案的檢討當中我們看到有非常多行政上的干預跟爭議其實一直出現所以目前我們看到其實有韓式可是在目前的法規框架裡面\n\n05:12.854 --> 05:26.246\n卻等於讓公務人員會陷入什麼情況呢對於到底罷免的提案連署是不是適用行政中立法我覺得這個是不是也要後續再來討論委員執教沒有錯現在這整部法律主體都在談選舉跟公投\n\n05:28.628 --> 05:54.315\n原則上原來一開始就是純粹談全局啦後來因為有公投所以我們把公投放進去了那我想因為實施了一個變化如果這一次有一些罷免或者罷免如果是一個未來或者過去有一些覺得需要也把它更細緻化的東西我想我們會願意這部分回去想想看因為整部法律裡面在第10條整部法律提到罷免就只有在第10條啦\n\n05:55.716 --> 06:10.374\n對所以我想啦我們就是不要只有講政治我們還是回到法規範所以我想我們的要求非常簡單就是剛剛您說的兩個我們希望有機會兩個月內根據我剛剛提出這三個問題你們做出一些回應跟幫我們做出相關評估報告可以嗎\n\n06:11.736 --> 06:16.357\n時間會不會太趕我們的一些想法我沒有辦法到一個細部的東西那就再回復我們辦公室可以嗎再回你辦公室好謝謝全序部那這邊這邊全序部請休息謝謝我請人長人長我每次看到你都要跟你討論公務人員育兒友善的問題希望你每次都有考古題的概念\n\n06:30.601 --> 06:45.892\n我這次幫你找到一個題目我覺得其實也是很多公務人員具體的感受目前我們在公務人員子女教育補助的部分國中小一學期給500塊其實這個是民國85年就存在的表格\n\n06:47.553 --> 07:08.609\n沒關係你很忙我知道我們不可能一個一個回頭看但是我們現在發現這個可能性有沒有機會來做調整怎麼說我們來看一下教育部現在相關的高中免學費的政策或是大專檢免學費的政策你們人總都有非常友善的發函提醒公務人員要注意補助申請的進合\n\n07:10.410 --> 07:31.768\n可是當舊的這個設計就是我剛說民國85年這有辦法喔一直到現在新的政策那我知道你們有通寒來處理可是除了通寒之外有沒有檢討這個500塊的機會或者是檢討其他相關政策然後讓公務人員真的覺得我在為國家賣命的時候國家真的也是友善我們在育兒政策上\n\n07:33.092 --> 07:46.296\n好謝謝委員這個議題啦那我覺得這也是我們應該要去努力的地方啦那我在這裡承諾委員我們回去會盡快去針對這個議題因為說這個500戸買了30噸的行情跟現有的落差是蠻大的啦\n\n07:56.219 --> 08:06.124\n那我們除了針對國中小這個部分我們會整體再盤一下因為大專的部分我們已經有補助三萬五其他的部分我們整體再來討論看看好怎麼說下一張其實我就是簡單跟人長\n\n08:14.088 --> 08:35.479\n分享一下啦目前的教育所需要的各種可能性其實不是只有落在學校裡頭有非常多一般的爸爸媽媽對於教育的想像可能擴及到學校以外會產生非常非常多的費用就算在學校裡面喔光是我們的社團活動啦課後班啦這些都還屬於在校內的喔其實也都花很多錢\n\n08:37.480 --> 08:54.314\n像你說的我們現在有高中到大學我們有什麼可能去想想有什麼可能的資源可以讓我們這些公務人員他們的年紀比較小的時候他們有感受到政府的善意好不好所以最後一張就具體的建議拜託人長這邊你們回去討論一下\n\n08:58.317 --> 09:16.085\n目前公務人員子女教育補助的設計數額有沒有合理然後跟目前我們教育部已經給的補助你們跟他們討論看看還有什麼設計的可能性跟教育部討論因為教育部這邊可能也會有相關經費需要支應還有就是目前教育的補助跟學校綁定的狀況我們怎麼樣讓現在的這些年輕世代的公務員爸爸媽媽真的覺得政府有在照顧我們\n\n09:23.909 --> 09:30.626\n有考慮到當代的需求好不好就是我剛剛跟你講85年到現在那這個有機會在兩個月內提供相關評估報告嗎\n\n09:33.931 --> 09:52.070\n至少有會議進度好不好好啦我們會朝這個目標來因為喔要跟合調的單位對要比較多啦好至少兩個月內要有第一次相關會議啦好不好好啦沒問題讓我們知道一下你們彼此對這件事情的見解至少要先有見解然後可能性然後之後再來推進度這樣好不好好沒問題好謝謝主席\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.42,"end":8.995,"text":"好 謝謝主席 大家辛苦了今天有請人 先請人事長跟權敘部 謝謝麻煩權敘部 人事長"},{"start":16.135,"end":34.341,"text":"好兩位早安我想要先就今天的專題跟兩位分享一個案例就發生在我辦公室我辦公室的訪客呢在7月6日之前他們是來討論事情的地方的陳情那他的包包上就是放上現在這個照片這樣結果就被立法院中心大樓一樓的警衛"},{"start":36.903,"end":56.048,"text":"他在簽名的時候登記他的身份的時候呢這個警衛就請他把這個飄帶拿下來他說因為要遵守行政中立我想要請兩位幫大家解釋一下行政中立到底是誰要遵守的為什麼警衛的大樓中心大樓的警衛可以對我們的訪客做出這樣的事情好"},{"start":57.887,"end":78.815,"text":"到底行政中立是誰要遵守行政中立根據行政中立法規範主體對象是公務人員就算這個中興大樓的警衛他不是公務人員他是其他約聘也好但是他是屬於這個公務機關裡面聘請的人員所以是他要遵守行政中立對不對所以不是叫訪客遵守行政中立嗎"},{"start":79.936,"end":94.475,"text":"我們的新興中立法主要是對象就是公務人員但是確實對機關本身的場域也是另外就是說在選舉期間就選舉期間裡面不適合在機關的機關辦公的場域裡面做這樣一個"},{"start":97.239,"end":116.941,"text":"可是他是訪客所以如果按照你這句話立法院本身跟一般的行政機關真的是很不一樣立法院做一個全民的這個民主政治的一個場域裡面應該這樣講他的空間應該會有所謂純辦公空間跟跟所謂這個"},{"start":118.382,"end":135.88,"text":"比較是屬於公共的空間所以如果是公共的空間基本上如果按照我們的一個理解因為我們的理解辦公場域是純辦公的一個場域不過這個解釋權我想立法院應該我們最後都會尊重立法院的一個怎麼去解釋這個事情"},{"start":136.38,"end":151.927,"text":"好 可是就我們的理解也按照您剛剛的回答行政中立應該是相關機構裡面的公務人員或者是約聘人員而不是對訪客來訪的訪客甚至是陳情的民眾所以我們當天確實有請立法院這邊做了處理也做了交代"},{"start":152.347,"end":168.96,"text":"不過我們當時掉了我們也希望跟他們掉錄影帶不過花了一些時間不過因為事情已經過了我認為我們還是要就行政中立這件事情好好來探討那我們要來看一下目前在公務人員行政中立法第16條裡面如果公務人員違反所謂的行政中立法"},{"start":169.4,"end":190.869,"text":"他會有懲戒或者是懲處這都是有法律效果的對嗎那這不法就像您剛說他是針對公務人員的部分他不涉及所謂政務人員可是如果反過來有政務人員要求我們的公務人員做出疑似行政不中立的事情那我們的公務人員要如何自救"},{"start":191.867,"end":207.969,"text":"他可以當然是可以拒絕那如果長官這個不聽的話他可以向他的上級機關的長官提出這個類似這個向他上級長官求救上級機關的長官求救我們有沒有相關的保護機制來協助公務人員"},{"start":210.395,"end":227.516,"text":"所謂保護機制就是說這個吹哨機制在公務員內部的這個狀況或是像他長官檢舉的這個過程當中他要如何確保他的這個檢舉的狀態是讓他感到安全的是沒有疑慮的曾委員提的這個想法確實是一個"},{"start":228.817,"end":247.9,"text":"可能我們可以再進一步思考目前的條文確實沒有特別談到這但也許在別的法律裡面是不是也有這樣的本來就有這個這個容許我回去跟同仁再了解一下沒錯 我們也是發現這個問題但絕對不會在質詢當中就解決不過沒關係我們等一下會跟你們討論我們希望後續有沒有機會在兩個月內跟我們相關報告來 我們來看下一張我剛剛答應主席我不會超時"},{"start":257.262,"end":278.539,"text":"目前在行政中立法第十條有寫到來看一下這個新的題目剛剛那個題目你說你待會去研究我們之後再來討論接下來我要講的是在公務人員的第十條行政中立法第十條寫到公務人員對於公職人員的選舉罷免公民投票不得利用職務上的權利機會或方法要求他人不行使投票權"},{"start":279.299,"end":295.837,"text":"会为一定之行使可是到了98年发布的行政中立法实行细则第七条里面呢就排除了罢免的提案跟联署我们后来去看的立法说明立法说明当然有它的理由理由我就不再赘述了我写在头影片上面"},{"start":296.698,"end":311.733,"text":"可是從最近的很多罷免案的檢討當中我們看到有非常多行政上的干預跟爭議其實一直出現所以目前我們看到其實有韓式可是在目前的法規框架裡面"},{"start":312.854,"end":326.246,"text":"卻等於讓公務人員會陷入什麼情況呢對於到底罷免的提案連署是不是適用行政中立法我覺得這個是不是也要後續再來討論委員執教沒有錯現在這整部法律主體都在談選舉跟公投"},{"start":328.628,"end":354.315,"text":"原則上原來一開始就是純粹談全局啦後來因為有公投所以我們把公投放進去了那我想因為實施了一個變化如果這一次有一些罷免或者罷免如果是一個未來或者過去有一些覺得需要也把它更細緻化的東西我想我們會願意這部分回去想想看因為整部法律裡面在第10條整部法律提到罷免就只有在第10條啦"},{"start":355.716,"end":370.374,"text":"對所以我想啦我們就是不要只有講政治我們還是回到法規範所以我想我們的要求非常簡單就是剛剛您說的兩個我們希望有機會兩個月內根據我剛剛提出這三個問題你們做出一些回應跟幫我們做出相關評估報告可以嗎"},{"start":371.736,"end":376.357,"text":"時間會不會太趕 我們的一些想法我沒有辦法到一個細部的東西那就再回復我們辦公室可以嗎 再回你辦公室好 謝謝 全序部那這邊這邊全序部請休息 謝謝我請人長人長我每次看到你都要跟你討論公務人員育兒友善的問題希望你每次都有考古題的概念"},{"start":390.601,"end":405.892,"text":"我這次幫你找到一個題目我覺得其實也是很多公務人員具體的感受目前我們在公務人員子女教育補助的部分國中小一學期給500塊其實這個是民國85年就存在的表格"},{"start":407.553,"end":428.609,"text":"沒關係 你很忙 我知道我們不可能一個一個回頭看但是我們現在發現這個可能性有沒有機會來做調整怎麼說我們來看一下教育部現在相關的高中免學費的政策或是大專檢免學費的政策你們人總都有非常友善的發函提醒公務人員要注意補助申請的進合"},{"start":430.41,"end":451.768,"text":"可是當舊的這個設計就是我剛說民國85年這有辦法喔一直到現在新的政策那我知道你們有通寒來處理可是除了通寒之外有沒有檢討這個500塊的機會或者是檢討其他相關政策然後讓公務人員真的覺得我在為國家賣命的時候國家真的也是友善我們在育兒政策上"},{"start":453.092,"end":466.296,"text":"好 謝謝委員這個議題啦 那我覺得這也是我們應該要去努力的地方啦那我在這裡承諾委員我們回去會盡快去針對這個議題因為說這個500戸買了30噸的行情跟現有的落差是蠻大的啦"},{"start":476.219,"end":486.124,"text":"那我們除了針對國中小這個部分我們會整體再盤一下 因為大專的部分我們已經有補助三萬五 其他的部分我們整體再來討論看看好 怎麼說 下一張其實我就是簡單跟人長"},{"start":494.088,"end":515.479,"text":"分享一下啦目前的教育所需要的各種可能性其實不是只有落在學校裡頭有非常多一般的爸爸媽媽對於教育的想像可能擴及到學校以外會產生非常非常多的費用就算在學校裡面喔光是我們的社團活動啦課後班啦這些都還屬於在校內的喔其實也都花很多錢"},{"start":517.48,"end":534.314,"text":"像你說的 我們現在有高中到大學我們有什麼可能去想想有什麼可能的資源可以讓我們這些公務人員他們的年紀比較小的時候他們有感受到政府的善意 好不好所以 最後一張就具體的建議 拜託人長這邊你們回去討論一下"},{"start":538.317,"end":556.085,"text":"目前公務人員子女教育補助的設計數額有沒有合理然後跟目前我們教育部已經給的補助你們跟他們討論看看還有什麼設計的可能性跟教育部討論因為教育部這邊可能也會有相關經費需要支應還有就是目前教育的補助跟學校綁定的狀況我們怎麼樣讓現在的這些年輕世代的公務員爸爸媽媽真的覺得政府有在照顧我們"},{"start":563.909,"end":570.626,"text":"有考慮到當代的需求好不好就是我剛剛跟你講85年到現在那這個有機會在兩個月內提供相關評估報告嗎"},{"start":573.931,"end":592.07,"text":"至少有會議進度 好不好好啦 我們會朝這個目標來因為喔 要跟合調的單位對 要比較多啦好 至少兩個月內要有第一次相關會議啦 好不好好啦 沒問題讓我們知道一下你們彼此對這件事情的見解至少要先有見解然後可能性然後之後再來推進度這樣好不好好 沒問題好 謝謝主席"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":540,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時38分）謝謝主席，大家辛苦了。先請人事長跟銓敘部，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩銓敘部及人事長。"],["施部長能傑：委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：兩位早安。我想要先就今天的專題跟兩位分享一個案例，就發生在我辦公室。我辦公室的訪客在726之前，他們是來討論事情的，是關於地方的陳情，他的包包就是像現在簡報上這個照片這樣，結果就被立法院中興大樓一樓的警衛，他在簽名登記身分的時候，警衛就請他把這個飄帶拿下來，他說因為要遵守行政中立，我想要請兩位幫大家解釋一下行政中立到底是誰要遵守的？為什麼中興大樓的警衛可以對我們的訪客做出這樣的事情？到底行政中立是誰要遵守行政中立？"],["施部長能傑：跟委員報告，根據行政中立法，其規範的主體對象是公務人員。"],["陳委員培瑜：是公務人員嘛？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：就算中興大樓的警衛不是公務人員，他是其他約聘也好，但是他是屬於這個公務機關裡面聘請的人員，所以是他要遵守行政中立，對不對？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以不是叫訪客遵守行政中立嘛？"],["施部長能傑：我們的行政中立法主要規範對象就是公務人員，但是確實對機關本身的場域也是規定，在選舉期間裡面，不適合在機關的辦公場域裡面來做這樣一個選舉活動……"],["陳委員培瑜：可是他是訪客耶！如果按照你這句話……"],["施部長能傑：關於這句話我要再講，因為立法院本身跟一般的行政機關真的是很不一樣，立法院作為一個全民民主政治的場域，應該這樣講，它的空間應該會有所謂純辦公空間跟比較是屬於公共的空間，基本上按照我們的理解，辦公場域是指純辦公的一個場域……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以……"],["施部長能傑：不過這個解釋權，我想我們最後都會尊重立法院怎麼去解釋這個事情。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，可是就我們的理解，也按照您剛剛的回答，行政中立應該是相關機構裡面的公務人員或者是約聘人員，而不是對來訪的訪客甚至是陳情的民眾，所以我們當天確實有請立法院這邊做了處理，也做了交代，我們當時也希望跟他們調錄影帶，不過花了一些時間，因為事情已經過了，我認為我們還是要就行政中立這件事情好好來探討。","我們來看一下，目前在公務人員行政中立法第十六條裡面，如果公務人員違反所謂的行政中立法，他會有懲戒或者是懲處，這都是有法律效果的，對嗎？這部法就像您剛剛說的，它是針對公務人員，不涉及所謂的政務人員，可是如果反過來，有政務人員要求公務人員做出疑似行政不中立的事情，那公務人員要如何自救？"],["施部長能傑：他當然可以拒絕，如果長官不聽的話，他可以向他的上級機關長官提出，向他上級機關的長官求救。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們有沒有相關的保護機制來協助公務人員？"],["施部長能傑：所謂保護機制就一般……"],["陳委員培瑜：就是吹哨機制在公務人員內部的狀況，或是向他長官檢舉的過程當中，他要如何確保他的檢舉狀態是讓他感到安全的，是沒有疑慮的？"],["施部長能傑：陳委員提的這個想法確實是我們可以再進一步思考的一個方向，目前的條文確實沒有特別談到……"],["陳委員培瑜：確實沒有？"],["施部長能傑：但也許在別的法律裡面是不是本來就有這個機制，這個容許我回去跟同仁再了解一下，好不好？"],["陳委員培瑜：沒錯，我們也發現這個問題，當然絕對不會在質詢當中就解決，不過沒關係，我們等一下會跟你們討論，希望後續有機會在兩個月內給我們相關的報告。","我們來看下一張，我剛剛答應主席我不會超時。目前在行政中立法的第十條有寫到，看一下這個新的題目，剛剛那個題目，你說你會帶回去研究，我們之後再來討論。接下來我要講的是，在公務人員行政中立法第十條寫到公務人員對於公職人員之選舉、罷免或公民投票，不得利用職務上的權利、機會或方法，要求他人不行使投票權或為一定之行使。可是到了98年發布的行政中立法施行細則第七條裡面就排除了罷免的提案跟連署，我們後來去看立法說明，立法說明當然有它的理由，理由我就不再贅述了，我寫在投影片上面，可是從最近很多罷免案的檢討當中看到有非常多行政上的干預跟爭議一直出現，其實目前我們看到有函釋，可是在目前的法規框架卻等於讓公務人員陷入什麼情況呢？對於罷免的提案連署，到底是不是適用行政中立法，我覺得這個是不是也要後續再來討論的？"],["施部長能傑：委員指教的沒有錯，現在這整部法律主體都在談選舉跟公投，原來一開始就純粹談選舉，後來因為有公投，所以對公投做……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，我們把公投放進去了。"],["施部長能傑：因為時事的變化，這一次有罷免，如果罷免在未來或者是過去覺得有一些需要把它更細緻化的東西，我們願意把這部分帶回去想想看……"],["陳委員培瑜：好。"],["施部長能傑：因為整部法律提到罷免的就只有在第十條。"],["陳委員培瑜：對、對。所以我想我們不要只有講政治，我們還是回到法規範……"],["施部長能傑：知道。"],["陳委員培瑜：我們的要求非常簡單，就是剛剛您說的，我們希望有機會在兩個月內根據我剛剛提出的三個問題，你們能做出一些回應，也幫我們做出相關評估報告，可以嗎？時間會不會太趕？"],["施部長能傑：是不是就針對我們的一些想法，我沒有辦法到細部的東西，好不好？"],["陳委員培瑜：好，沒關係，那就再回復我們辦公室，可以嗎？"],["施部長能傑：再回復您辦公室，謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝銓敘部，銓敘部請休息。","我請人事長。人事長，我每次看到你都跟你討論公務人員育兒友善的問題，希望你每次都有考古題的概念，我這次幫你找到一個題目，我覺得這其實也是很多公務人員具體的感受，目前我們在公務人員子女教育補助的部分，國中小一學期給500塊，其實這是民國85年就存在的表格，沒關係，我知道你很忙，我們不可能一個一個回頭看，但是我們現在發現這個可能性，有沒有機會來做調整？我們來看一下教育部現在相關的高中免學費政策，或是大專減免學費的政策，你們人總都有非常友善的發函提醒公務人員要注意補助申請的競合，可是當舊的設計，也就是我剛剛說到民國85年的這個500塊，一直到現在新的政策，我知道你們有用通函來處理，可是除了通函之外，有沒有檢討這個500塊的機會，或者是檢討其他相關政策？讓公務人員真的覺得他們在為國家賣命的時候，國家真的也是友善在育兒政策上。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：謝謝委員關注這個議題，我覺得這也是我們應該要去努力的地方，我在這裡承諾委員，我們回去會儘快針對這個議題，因為說真的，500塊是30年前的行情……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，85年到現在。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：跟現有的落差是蠻大的，除了針對國中、小的部分，我們會整體再盤一下，因為大專的部分已經有補助3萬5,000……"],["陳委員培瑜：是，就是這樣。"],["蘇人事長俊榮：其他的部分我們整體再來討論看看。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。下一張，我就是簡單跟人事長分享一下，目前教育所需要的各種可能性其實不是只有落在學校裡頭，有非常多一般的爸爸媽媽對於教育的想像可能擴及到學校以外，會產生非常非常多的費用，就算在學校裡面，光是我們的社團活動、課後班，這些都還屬於在校內的，其實也都花很多錢，因為就像你說的，現在只有高中跟大專的補助，我們可以去想想看，有什麼可能的資源能讓公務人員的這些子女在年紀比較小的時候感受到政府的善意，好不好？","最後一張簡報，具體的建議，拜託人事長這邊回去討論一下，目前公務人員子女教育補助的設計數額有沒有合理，目前教育部已經給的補助，你們跟他們討論看看，還有什麼設計的可能性，好不好？要跟教育部討論，因為教育部這邊可能也會有相關經費需要支應，以及目前教育補助跟學校綁定的狀況，我們怎麼樣讓現在這些年輕世代的公務員爸爸媽媽真的覺得政府有在照顧他們，考慮到當代的需求，好不好？就是我剛剛跟你講的，從85年到現在，這個有機會在兩個月內提供相關的評估報告嗎？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：我們會朝……"],["陳委員培瑜：至少有會議進度，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，我們會朝這個目標，因為需要協調的單位比較多。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，至少兩個月內要有第一次相關會議，好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：讓我們知道一下你們彼此對這件事情的見解，至少要先有見解，然後瞭解可能性，之後再來推進度，這樣好不好？"],["蘇人事長俊榮：好，沒問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：感謝。謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請沈發惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-24","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","林倩綺","陳培瑜","沈發惠","羅智強","麥玉珍","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷","吳沛憶","王鴻薇"],"page_start":235,"meetingDate":["2025-08-14"],"gazette_id":"1147302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處人事長、中央選舉委員會主任委員、法務部廉政署署\n長、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「政務人員應否及如何遵守行政中立原\n則、行政機關於選舉罷免期間應為如何之宣導與落實」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查\n(一)考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員邱志偉等21人擬具\n「公務人員考績法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「公務人員考績法第十\n二條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」\n案、( 五) 委員范雲等17 人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條、第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案」\n案；三、併案審查(一)委員傅崐萁等25人、(二)委員郭昱晴等18人分別擬具「刑事訴訟法第七十\n一條及第一百七十五條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1147302_00005"}}}