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{\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 822.868, \"end\": 823.008, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 823.008, \"end\": 823.368, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"給\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 823.368, \"end\": 823.488, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 823.488, \"end\": 823.588, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 823.588, \"end\": 823.788, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 823.788, \"end\": 824.009, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 824.009, \"end\": 824.369, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 824.369, \"end\": 824.449, \"score\": 0.768}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 824.449, \"end\": 824.769, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 824.769, \"end\": 825.009, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"修\", \"start\": 825.009, \"end\": 825.349, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 825.349, \"end\": 825.669, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 825.669, \"end\": 826.23, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 826.23, \"end\": 826.93, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 826.93, \"end\": 826.95, \"score\": 0.636}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:13,856 --> 00:00:41,462\n主席各位同仁我們今天的這個有關討論事項有關我們今天的這個會議事項的第三項有關病案審查這個刑事訴訟法第七十一條跟一百七十五條條文的修正草案這個部分我想今天利用這個時間來這個進行一些了解跟討論因為這個我看剛才大家都比較沒有關注這個部分但是我認為這個部分\n\n2\n00:00:43,089 --> 00:01:00,100\n可能牽涉未來牽涉會蠻大所以我現在是不是先請司法院我們請刑事請這刑事廳廳長麻煩請法務部因為跟這個也跟次長跟這個我們的法務部也有關係了好\n\n3\n00:01:05,562 --> 00:01:13,547\n好這個廳長好次長好這個今天齁我們在我們的這個討論事項裡面齁有關於這個刑事訴訟法第71條跟175條的這個修正的這個病案審查齁這個71條跟175條它大概就是\n\n4\n00:01:22,677 --> 00:01:44,549\n有關於這個被告跟證人的這些傳票這個大概是增列第三項都增列第三項就是這個傳票如果有外籍配偶外籍人士外籍學生等等相關的這些外籍人士在這個傳票上面應加註該國文字或英文翻譯這個\n\n5\n00:01:50,033 --> 00:02:04,478\n這個看起來這個立法是利益良好不過我看了這個我們法務部跟我們司法院針對這個條文的這個書面報告對這個修正都有相當大的保留意見那這個部分我想這個\n\n6\n00:02:07,988 --> 00:02:33,518\n因為我們現在目前的這個我們發放傳票不管是被告或者是這個證人目前這個傳票的簽發在偵查中都是由偵查中是由檢察長那在這個審判中是由這個審判長或是受命法官來簽發所以跟這個我們司法院跟法務部都應該都未來如果說今天的修正如果說這樣子修正通過的話\n\n7\n00:02:34,816 --> 00:02:48,167\n可能會有相當大的未來會有一些可能自愛難行或者甚至會造成未來你因為拘捕前置的一些原則的違反讓未來整個審判訴訟過程會有一些問題這部分我先請我們\n\n8\n00:02:57,207 --> 00:03:18,238\n廳長就這個部分表示意見好不好是委員好有關這個部分的修正我們司法院採取比較保留態度的主要因為在法院組織法99條它本來就是有關司法文書本來就在以本國語言為主但是例外的時候說必要是可以登載附近方言或者是外國語文\n\n9\n00:03:19,278 --> 00:03:46,823\n如果當這個是一個整體性的包括行政訴訟文明事務訴訟行政訴訟對法院組織法裡面的規定對包括使用的語言97條這個審判的時候應該使用國語那在這個99條有訴訟文書的文字這個都有規定那以在現行的司法實務上有關於證人或是被告的傳票如果他涉及到外國外籍人士不管他是配偶或是來台工作的\n\n10\n00:03:48,244 --> 00:04:04,803\n工作者的所謂我們一般稱的外籍勞工或者是外籍配偶或者是在台來台就學的學生外籍人士我們他有這個需求我們會給他相應的包括通知書也會有相應的一些外國語文的配套\n\n11\n00:04:05,423 --> 00:04:19,909\n現在簡單講現在我們的一些司法文書事實上已經有提供相當多的外國語言的譯本現在是一種比較任意性的我們能力做得到的像我們現在常用的印尼文越南文\n\n12\n00:04:20,509 --> 00:04:49,671\n英文我看英文日文最多啦英日韓文法定通知書送達書這些刑事被告權益輸送權利告知書這些相關都是英文日文有關這個其他的韓文越南文印尼文泰文馬來文等等在性侵害犯罪的這些陪同人詢問通知書有啦那這個裁判裁判書的救濟程序交試條款也有啦但是這個是目前的司法文書是有這樣子的\n\n13\n00:04:50,872 --> 00:05:15,791\n的相關提供相關的這個譯本的這樣子的做法啦這樣做法但是那入法你入在這個這個刑事訴訟法裡面入法讓傳票必須具備這個這個外國語譯文的這樣子的要件跟我們現在這樣的提供司法司法其他司法文書外國語譯本的這種服務\n\n14\n00:05:17,032 --> 00:05:32,606\n這個我想是兩回事吧這個強度是不一樣不只是強度差很多會影響到程序上會不會有瑕疵的問題你未來這個就是拘捕前置原則你未來你這個之前的合法性尤其是這個其實\n\n15\n00:05:34,227 --> 00:05:59,845\n其實我們在偵查中我們檢察官簽發這個G票這個應該會遇到最大的狀況因為這個事實上在很多偵查甚至審判初級這些被告或是證人的國籍並不一定你在你相關的這個卷內的資料不一定能夠掌握那麼清楚他去了你以為越南文你準備了越南文的船票就去他說他是泰國人\n\n16\n00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:16,070\n那這個船票就有瑕疵了這個有瑕疵之後後面你拘提不到你所造成的這些後面的這些法律程序通通拘捕的程序通通會發生效力的問題對不對那這個我想\n\n17\n00:06:21,369 --> 00:06:39,130\n現在有委員提案這個修法當然是利益良善針對我國目前這個外籍配偶新住民的人數的增加它是利益良善但是這個實務我們重視的是今天如果這樣我們就這樣委員會就這樣子修法通過我認為是在實務上\n\n18\n00:06:41,132 --> 00:07:05,335\n造成實務的衝擊我認為也很不好但是問題是實務上是不是有大量的外籍人士他們因為語言障礙導致外籍被告他因為對於國語不熟悉導致他訴訟權益受損而申請救濟目前有沒有統計我們司法院有沒有統計法務部有沒有統計\n\n19\n00:07:06,588 --> 00:07:17,463\n目前是沒有這樣的統計但是我們有特約司法同意的制度我知道我們同意制度現在還需要努力但是已經很努力了我知道但是我現在就講說我們應該要統計一下因為\n\n20\n00:07:21,528 --> 00:07:47,515\n不按我們台灣的語言造成他訴訟權益受損來申請救濟這樣子的我認為應該要做個統計啦這是第一點第二點我們司法院跟法務部我們就應該就這個如果說這條修法通過之後他對於這個審理的效力還有他每年會增加的這些人力時間經費的成本有沒有做預估\n\n21\n00:07:49,537 --> 00:08:16,343\n目前沒有去做預估現在我們都是任意性的去配合提供但是如果今天修法通過了你們就要就要下去包括人力包括每簽發一張這個船票的時間還有他所需的成本這些我覺得都應該下去估算了這個你才能夠在委員會裡面說服大家說這個如果說今天就這樣子通過可能會在執行上面會有真的很大的自愛難行的部分\n\n22\n00:08:17,203 --> 00:08:20,506\n這部分我希望說你們能夠做這個估算那這個\n\n23\n00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:47,812\n這個有關通譯的部分這個也是我們專業通譯的這個人力配置我們如果未來今天這個修法如果照這樣通過的話可能未來在這個我們的這個包括法院跟地檢署的行政成本這增加都會造成一些執行的困難所以我在這裡也是就利用這個機緣因為我看今天的大家的討論都是政治性的討論大家沒有\n\n24\n00:08:48,712 --> 00:09:07,065\n沒有專注到今天可能同步要進行這個修法我希望說今天這個修法這個董委員會希望所有同仁大家能夠在這個修法上面能夠再審慎一點參考我們司法院跟法務部執法機關的這個的意見那接下來還有一點時間我這個\n\n25\n00:09:10,207 --> 00:09:31,022\n今天也利用這難得的機會我們這個行事廳廳長來目前有關這個上市其實今年在3月的時候我就已經有做過質詢有關於我們司法聯盟鏈這個數位證據的真實性跟它的保存的問題這個問題我們從\n\n26\n00:09:35,469 --> 00:09:54,616\n2021年開始我們啟動所謂五大司法機關的司法聯盟鏈包括司法院法務部、台高檢、調查局跟警政署這五大司法機關成立的司法聯盟鏈在2024年我們啟動了一個叫做司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台\n\n27\n00:09:57,017 --> 00:10:12,543\n那這個也就是說我們希望說透過這個驗證平台讓這個司法警察機關在第一線查扣的時候能夠同時上鏈上鏈之後這個確保這些數位證據因為數位證據的修改篡改它的痕跡很難去判定這個證據整個證據的這個是不是有沒有被篡改有沒有被變造\n\n28\n00:10:21,166 --> 00:10:49,599\n這些數位證據的整個從第一線開始一直到最後審判終結的這個統一性的確保所以我們來做這個驗證平台這個實務上事實上也常常發生現在也一直在發生因為這個第一線的司法警察機關他在處理這個數位證據的過程的交接過程裡面他沒有遵守\n\n29\n00:10:52,168 --> 00:11:06,873\n這個相關的這些鑑識的規範導致未來在審判過程中幾乎被害人的抗辯很多都是在抗辯這一點這個狀況是現在我們雖然已經做成所謂共同驗證平台但是現在這個有一個很大的這個問題這個\n\n30\n00:11:10,811 --> 00:11:20,225\n事實上這個司法檢查機關在這個鑑識過程中他取得這個數位證據他沒有按照行政機關所定的鑑識規範完成記錄的這些交接的流程\n\n31\n00:11:21,517 --> 00:11:43,719\n這些他沒有遵守我們這個最高法院有做一個明確的一個表示就認為說這個刑事偵查中的這個偵查機關內部規則對外不具對外的法律效力所以這個即使他沒有按照這個數位證據保全的作業程序的這些規則相關的這些監視規則沒有即使沒有按照這個規則不影響他的證據能力\n\n32\n00:11:46,301 --> 00:12:09,446\n這是我們最高法院所做的一個裁定一個表示那這樣子事實上大部分的學說也是支持也支持說確實在這個過程中不應該對外具有法律效力但是他就造成了一個負面的效果就是這些司法警察機關他就便宜行事既然他不影響證據能力所以他在這個\n\n33\n00:12:15,453 --> 00:12:23,482\n這個過程他就省事省力執意操作就不按照不按照這個相關的監視程序來走這樣子的問題我們有什麼樣的目前有什麼樣的\n\n34\n00:12:30,045 --> 00:12:48,254\n能夠讓他兼具平衡是不是市長來跟委員報告事實上自從這個113年4月這個司法聯盟平台正式成立之後本部跟相關的司法警察機關事實上都不斷的在宣導跟推廣那當然這個我想這個法院的見解應該\n\n35\n00:12:49,355 --> 00:13:13,130\n不是說他不影響而是不當然影響也就是說證據統一性仍然會是在個案中法院審判的時候會去斟酌審證的一個內容所以說在偵查的階段我們為了避免會來舉證的時候造成這樣的問題所以我們在內部是非常努力的在推廣相關的這個做法建立SOP\n\n36\n00:13:13,670 --> 00:13:31,102\n希望我們所有的現在實際上的整個審判過程事實上很多被告幾乎就是用這個在抗辯因為我們才剛剛這個啟用這個時間上還短我相信未來應該會逐步來改善那是不是有沒有考慮我們把這個整個數位證據的取得規定我們就明文入法\n\n37\n00:13:32,763 --> 00:13:46,950\n我想這個部分因為每個個案可能還是會有他的不一樣的情形這個這樣子時間到請司法院跟法務部我們針對這個有關數位證據的修法評估做一個書面報告給我好不好是不是能夠修法我們來說明好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n13856\t41462\t主席 各位同仁我們今天的這個有關討論事項有關我們今天的這個會議事項的第三項有關病案審查這個刑事訴訟法第七十一條跟一百七十五條條文的修正草案這個部分我想今天利用這個時間來這個進行一些了解跟討論因為這個我看剛才大家都比較沒有關注這個部分但是我認為這個部分\n43089\t60100\t可能牽涉未來牽涉會蠻大所以我現在是不是先請司法院我們請刑事請這刑事廳廳長麻煩請法務部因為跟這個也跟次長跟這個我們的法務部也有關係了好\n65562\t73547\t好 這個 廳長好 次長好這個今天齁 我們在我們的這個討論事項裡面齁有關於這個刑事訴訟法第71條跟175條的這個修正的這個病案審查齁這個71條跟175條它大概就是\n82677\t104549\t有關於這個被告跟證人的這些傳票這個大概是增列第三項 都增列第三項就是這個傳票如果有外籍配偶 外籍人士 外籍學生等等相關的這些外籍人士在這個傳票上面應加註該國文字或英文翻譯這個\n110033\t124478\t這個看起來這個立法是利益良好不過我看了這個我們法務部跟我們司法院針對這個條文的這個書面報告對這個修正都有相當大的保留意見那這個部分我想這個\n127988\t153518\t因為我們現在目前的這個我們發放傳票不管是被告或者是這個證人目前這個傳票的簽發在偵查中都是由 偵查中是由檢察長那在這個審判中是由這個審判長或是受命法官來簽發所以跟這個我們司法院跟法務部都應該都未來如果說今天的修正如果說這樣子修正通過的話\n154816\t168167\t可能會有相當大的未來會有一些可能自愛難行或者甚至會造成未來你因為拘捕前置的一些原則的違反讓未來整個審判訴訟過程會有一些問題這部分我先請我們\n177207\t198238\t廳長 就這個部分表示意見好不好是 委員好有關這個部分的修正我們司法院採取比較保留態度的主要因為在法院組織法99條它本來就是有關司法文書本來就在以本國語言為主但是例外的時候說必要是可以登載附近方言或者是外國語文\n199278\t226823\t如果當 這個是一個整體性的包括行政訴訟 文明事務訴訟 行政訴訟對 法院組織法裡面的規定 對包括使用的語言 97條這個審判的時候應該使用國語那在這個99條有訴訟文書的文字這個都有規定那以在現行的司法實務上有關於證人或是被告的傳票如果他涉及到外國 外籍人士不管他是配偶或是來台工作的\n228244\t244803\t工作者的所謂我們一般稱的外籍勞工或者是外籍配偶或者是在台來台就學的學生外籍人士我們他有這個需求我們會給他相應的包括通知書也會有相應的一些外國語文的配套\n245423\t259909\t現在簡單講現在我們的一些司法文書事實上已經有提供相當多的外國語言的譯本現在是一種比較任意性的我們能力做得到的像我們現在常用的印尼文 越南文\n260509\t289671\t英文 我看英文日文最多啦英日韓文 法定通知書 送達書這些刑事被告權益輸送權利告知書這些相關都是英文日文有關這個其他的韓文 越南文 印尼文泰文 馬來文等等在性侵害犯罪的這些陪同人詢問通知書有啦那這個裁判裁判書的救濟程序交試條款也有啦但是這個是目前的司法文書是有這樣子的\n290872\t315791\t的相關 提供相關的這個譯本的這樣子的做法啦 這樣做法 但是那入法 你入 在這個這個刑事訴訟法裡面入法讓傳票必須具備這個這個外國語譯文的這樣子的要件跟我們現在這樣的提供司法司法 其他司法文書 外國語譯本的這種服務\n317032\t332606\t這個我想是兩回事吧這個強度是不一樣不只是強度差很多會影響到程序上會不會有瑕疵的問題你未來這個就是拘捕前置原則你未來你這個之前的合法性尤其是這個其實\n334227\t359845\t其實我們在偵查中我們檢察官簽發這個G票這個應該會遇到最大的狀況因為這個事實上在很多偵查甚至審判初級這些被告或是證人的國籍並不一定你在你相關的這個卷內的資料不一定能夠掌握那麼清楚他去了 你以為越南文你準備了越南文的船票就去他說他是泰國人\n361360\t376070\t那這個船票就有瑕疵了這個有瑕疵之後後面你拘提不到你所造成的這些後面的這些法律程序通通拘捕的程序通通會發生效力的問題對不對那這個我想\n381369\t399130\t現在有委員提案這個修法當然是利益良善針對我國目前這個外籍配偶新住民的人數的增加它是利益良善但是這個實務我們重視的是今天如果這樣我們就這樣委員會就這樣子修法通過我認為是在實務上\n401132\t425335\t造成實務的衝擊 我認為也很不好但是問題是實務上是不是有大量的外籍人士他們因為語言障礙導致外籍被告他因為對於國語不熟悉導致他訴訟權益受損而申請救濟目前有沒有統計 我們司法院有沒有統計法務部有沒有統計\n426588\t437463\t目前是沒有這樣的統計但是我們有特約司法同意的制度我知道我們同意制度現在還需要努力但是已經很努力了我知道但是我現在就講說我們應該要統計一下因為\n441528\t467515\t不按我們台灣的語言造成他訴訟權益受損來申請救濟這樣子的我認為應該要做個統計啦這是第一點 第二點我們司法院跟法務部我們就應該就這個如果說這條修法通過之後他對於這個審理的效力還有他每年會增加的這些人力時間經費的成本有沒有做預估\n469537\t496343\t目前沒有去做預估現在我們都是任意性的去配合提供但是如果今天修法通過了你們就要就要下去包括人力包括每簽發一張這個船票的時間還有他所需的成本這些我覺得都應該下去估算了這個你才能夠在委員會裡面說服大家說這個如果說今天就這樣子通過可能會在執行上面會有真的很大的自愛難行的部分\n497203\t500506\t這部分我希望說你們能夠做這個估算那這個\n504080\t527812\t這個有關通譯的部分這個也是我們專業通譯的這個人力配置我們如果未來今天這個修法如果照這樣通過的話可能未來在這個我們的這個包括法院跟地檢署的行政成本這增加都會造成一些執行的困難所以我在這裡也是就利用這個機緣因為我看今天的大家的討論都是政治性的討論大家沒有\n528712\t547065\t沒有專注到今天可能同步要進行這個修法我希望說今天這個修法這個董委員會希望所有同仁大家能夠在這個修法上面能夠再審慎一點參考我們司法院跟法務部執法機關的這個的意見那接下來還有一點時間我這個\n550207\t571022\t今天也利用這難得的機會我們這個行事廳廳長來目前有關這個上市其實今年在3月的時候我就已經有做過質詢有關於我們司法聯盟鏈這個數位證據的真實性跟它的保存的問題這個問題我們從\n575469\t594616\t2021年開始我們啟動所謂五大司法機關的司法聯盟鏈包括司法院法務部、台高檢、調查局跟警政署這五大司法機關成立的司法聯盟鏈在2024年我們啟動了一個叫做司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台\n597017\t612543\t那這個也就是說我們希望說透過這個驗證平台讓這個司法警察機關在第一線查扣的時候能夠同時上鏈上鏈之後這個確保這些數位證據因為數位證據的修改篡改它的痕跡很難去判定這個證據整個證據的這個是不是有沒有被篡改有沒有被變造\n621166\t649599\t這些數位證據的整個從第一線開始一直到最後審判終結的這個統一性的確保所以我們來做這個驗證平台這個實務上事實上也常常發生現在也一直在發生因為這個第一線的司法警察機關他在處理這個數位證據的過程的交接過程裡面他沒有遵守\n652168\t666873\t這個相關的這些鑑識的規範導致未來在審判過程中幾乎被害人的抗辯很多都是在抗辯這一點這個狀況是現在我們雖然已經做成所謂共同驗證平台但是現在這個有一個很大的這個問題這個\n670811\t680225\t事實上這個司法檢查機關在這個鑑識過程中他取得這個數位證據他沒有按照行政機關所定的鑑識規範完成記錄的這些交接的流程\n681517\t703719\t這些他沒有遵守我們這個最高法院有做一個明確的一個表示就認為說這個刑事偵查中的這個偵查機關內部規則對外不具對外的法律效力所以這個即使他沒有按照這個數位證據保全的作業程序的這些規則相關的這些監視規則沒有即使沒有按照這個規則不影響他的證據能力\n706301\t729446\t這是我們最高法院所做的一個裁定一個表示那這樣子事實上大部分的學說也是支持也支持說確實在這個過程中不應該對外具有法律效力但是他就造成了一個負面的效果就是這些司法警察機關他就便宜行事既然他不影響證據能力所以他在這個\n735453\t743482\t這個過程他就省事省力 執意操作就不按照不按照這個相關的監視程序來走這樣子的問題我們有什麼樣的目前有什麼樣的\n750045\t768254\t能夠讓他兼具平衡 是不是市長來跟委員報告 事實上自從這個113年4月這個司法聯盟平台正式成立之後本部跟相關的司法警察機關事實上都不斷的在宣導跟推廣那當然這個 我想這個法院的見解應該\n769355\t793130\t不是說他不影響 而是不當然影響也就是說證據統一性仍然會是在個案中 法院審判的時候會去斟酌審證的一個內容所以說在偵查的階段我們為了避免會來舉證的時候造成這樣的問題所以我們在內部是非常努力的在推廣相關的這個做法 建立SOP\n793670\t811102\t希望我們所有的現在實際上的整個審判過程事實上很多被告幾乎就是用這個在抗辯因為我們才剛剛這個啟用這個時間上還短我相信未來應該會逐步來改善那是不是有沒有考慮我們把這個整個數位證據的取得規定我們就明文入法\n812763\t826950\t我想這個部分因為每個個案可能還是會有他的不一樣的情形這個這樣子 時間到 請司法院跟法務部我們針對這個有關數位證據的修法評估做一個書面報告給我好不好是不是能夠修法我們來說明 好 謝謝\n","txt":"主席 各位同仁我們今天的這個有關討論事項有關我們今天的這個會議事項的第三項有關病案審查這個刑事訴訟法第七十一條跟一百七十五條條文的修正草案這個部分我想今天利用這個時間來這個進行一些了解跟討論因為這個我看剛才大家都比較沒有關注這個部分但是我認為這個部分\n可能牽涉未來牽涉會蠻大所以我現在是不是先請司法院我們請刑事請這刑事廳廳長麻煩請法務部因為跟這個也跟次長跟這個我們的法務部也有關係了好\n好 這個 廳長好 次長好這個今天齁 我們在我們的這個討論事項裡面齁有關於這個刑事訴訟法第71條跟175條的這個修正的這個病案審查齁這個71條跟175條它大概就是\n有關於這個被告跟證人的這些傳票這個大概是增列第三項 都增列第三項就是這個傳票如果有外籍配偶 外籍人士 外籍學生等等相關的這些外籍人士在這個傳票上面應加註該國文字或英文翻譯這個\n這個看起來這個立法是利益良好不過我看了這個我們法務部跟我們司法院針對這個條文的這個書面報告對這個修正都有相當大的保留意見那這個部分我想這個\n因為我們現在目前的這個我們發放傳票不管是被告或者是這個證人目前這個傳票的簽發在偵查中都是由 偵查中是由檢察長那在這個審判中是由這個審判長或是受命法官來簽發所以跟這個我們司法院跟法務部都應該都未來如果說今天的修正如果說這樣子修正通過的話\n可能會有相當大的未來會有一些可能自愛難行或者甚至會造成未來你因為拘捕前置的一些原則的違反讓未來整個審判訴訟過程會有一些問題這部分我先請我們\n廳長 就這個部分表示意見好不好是 委員好有關這個部分的修正我們司法院採取比較保留態度的主要因為在法院組織法99條它本來就是有關司法文書本來就在以本國語言為主但是例外的時候說必要是可以登載附近方言或者是外國語文\n如果當 這個是一個整體性的包括行政訴訟 文明事務訴訟 行政訴訟對 法院組織法裡面的規定 對包括使用的語言 97條這個審判的時候應該使用國語那在這個99條有訴訟文書的文字這個都有規定那以在現行的司法實務上有關於證人或是被告的傳票如果他涉及到外國 外籍人士不管他是配偶或是來台工作的\n工作者的所謂我們一般稱的外籍勞工或者是外籍配偶或者是在台來台就學的學生外籍人士我們他有這個需求我們會給他相應的包括通知書也會有相應的一些外國語文的配套\n現在簡單講現在我們的一些司法文書事實上已經有提供相當多的外國語言的譯本現在是一種比較任意性的我們能力做得到的像我們現在常用的印尼文 越南文\n英文 我看英文日文最多啦英日韓文 法定通知書 送達書這些刑事被告權益輸送權利告知書這些相關都是英文日文有關這個其他的韓文 越南文 印尼文泰文 馬來文等等在性侵害犯罪的這些陪同人詢問通知書有啦那這個裁判裁判書的救濟程序交試條款也有啦但是這個是目前的司法文書是有這樣子的\n的相關 提供相關的這個譯本的這樣子的做法啦 這樣做法 但是那入法 你入 在這個這個刑事訴訟法裡面入法讓傳票必須具備這個這個外國語譯文的這樣子的要件跟我們現在這樣的提供司法司法 其他司法文書 外國語譯本的這種服務\n這個我想是兩回事吧這個強度是不一樣不只是強度差很多會影響到程序上會不會有瑕疵的問題你未來這個就是拘捕前置原則你未來你這個之前的合法性尤其是這個其實\n其實我們在偵查中我們檢察官簽發這個G票這個應該會遇到最大的狀況因為這個事實上在很多偵查甚至審判初級這些被告或是證人的國籍並不一定你在你相關的這個卷內的資料不一定能夠掌握那麼清楚他去了 你以為越南文你準備了越南文的船票就去他說他是泰國人\n那這個船票就有瑕疵了這個有瑕疵之後後面你拘提不到你所造成的這些後面的這些法律程序通通拘捕的程序通通會發生效力的問題對不對那這個我想\n現在有委員提案這個修法當然是利益良善針對我國目前這個外籍配偶新住民的人數的增加它是利益良善但是這個實務我們重視的是今天如果這樣我們就這樣委員會就這樣子修法通過我認為是在實務上\n造成實務的衝擊 我認為也很不好但是問題是實務上是不是有大量的外籍人士他們因為語言障礙導致外籍被告他因為對於國語不熟悉導致他訴訟權益受損而申請救濟目前有沒有統計 我們司法院有沒有統計法務部有沒有統計\n目前是沒有這樣的統計但是我們有特約司法同意的制度我知道我們同意制度現在還需要努力但是已經很努力了我知道但是我現在就講說我們應該要統計一下因為\n不按我們台灣的語言造成他訴訟權益受損來申請救濟這樣子的我認為應該要做個統計啦這是第一點 第二點我們司法院跟法務部我們就應該就這個如果說這條修法通過之後他對於這個審理的效力還有他每年會增加的這些人力時間經費的成本有沒有做預估\n目前沒有去做預估現在我們都是任意性的去配合提供但是如果今天修法通過了你們就要就要下去包括人力包括每簽發一張這個船票的時間還有他所需的成本這些我覺得都應該下去估算了這個你才能夠在委員會裡面說服大家說這個如果說今天就這樣子通過可能會在執行上面會有真的很大的自愛難行的部分\n這部分我希望說你們能夠做這個估算那這個\n這個有關通譯的部分這個也是我們專業通譯的這個人力配置我們如果未來今天這個修法如果照這樣通過的話可能未來在這個我們的這個包括法院跟地檢署的行政成本這增加都會造成一些執行的困難所以我在這裡也是就利用這個機緣因為我看今天的大家的討論都是政治性的討論大家沒有\n沒有專注到今天可能同步要進行這個修法我希望說今天這個修法這個董委員會希望所有同仁大家能夠在這個修法上面能夠再審慎一點參考我們司法院跟法務部執法機關的這個的意見那接下來還有一點時間我這個\n今天也利用這難得的機會我們這個行事廳廳長來目前有關這個上市其實今年在3月的時候我就已經有做過質詢有關於我們司法聯盟鏈這個數位證據的真實性跟它的保存的問題這個問題我們從\n2021年開始我們啟動所謂五大司法機關的司法聯盟鏈包括司法院法務部、台高檢、調查局跟警政署這五大司法機關成立的司法聯盟鏈在2024年我們啟動了一個叫做司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台\n那這個也就是說我們希望說透過這個驗證平台讓這個司法警察機關在第一線查扣的時候能夠同時上鏈上鏈之後這個確保這些數位證據因為數位證據的修改篡改它的痕跡很難去判定這個證據整個證據的這個是不是有沒有被篡改有沒有被變造\n這些數位證據的整個從第一線開始一直到最後審判終結的這個統一性的確保所以我們來做這個驗證平台這個實務上事實上也常常發生現在也一直在發生因為這個第一線的司法警察機關他在處理這個數位證據的過程的交接過程裡面他沒有遵守\n這個相關的這些鑑識的規範導致未來在審判過程中幾乎被害人的抗辯很多都是在抗辯這一點這個狀況是現在我們雖然已經做成所謂共同驗證平台但是現在這個有一個很大的這個問題這個\n事實上這個司法檢查機關在這個鑑識過程中他取得這個數位證據他沒有按照行政機關所定的鑑識規範完成記錄的這些交接的流程\n這些他沒有遵守我們這個最高法院有做一個明確的一個表示就認為說這個刑事偵查中的這個偵查機關內部規則對外不具對外的法律效力所以這個即使他沒有按照這個數位證據保全的作業程序的這些規則相關的這些監視規則沒有即使沒有按照這個規則不影響他的證據能力\n這是我們最高法院所做的一個裁定一個表示那這樣子事實上大部分的學說也是支持也支持說確實在這個過程中不應該對外具有法律效力但是他就造成了一個負面的效果就是這些司法警察機關他就便宜行事既然他不影響證據能力所以他在這個\n這個過程他就省事省力 執意操作就不按照不按照這個相關的監視程序來走這樣子的問題我們有什麼樣的目前有什麼樣的\n能夠讓他兼具平衡 是不是市長來跟委員報告 事實上自從這個113年4月這個司法聯盟平台正式成立之後本部跟相關的司法警察機關事實上都不斷的在宣導跟推廣那當然這個 我想這個法院的見解應該\n不是說他不影響 而是不當然影響也就是說證據統一性仍然會是在個案中 法院審判的時候會去斟酌審證的一個內容所以說在偵查的階段我們為了避免會來舉證的時候造成這樣的問題所以我們在內部是非常努力的在推廣相關的這個做法 建立SOP\n希望我們所有的現在實際上的整個審判過程事實上很多被告幾乎就是用這個在抗辯因為我們才剛剛這個啟用這個時間上還短我相信未來應該會逐步來改善那是不是有沒有考慮我們把這個整個數位證據的取得規定我們就明文入法\n我想這個部分因為每個個案可能還是會有他的不一樣的情形這個這樣子 時間到 請司法院跟法務部我們針對這個有關數位證據的修法評估做一個書面報告給我好不好是不是能夠修法我們來說明 好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:13.856 --> 00:41.462\n主席各位同仁我們今天的這個有關討論事項有關我們今天的這個會議事項的第三項有關病案審查這個刑事訴訟法第七十一條跟一百七十五條條文的修正草案這個部分我想今天利用這個時間來這個進行一些了解跟討論因為這個我看剛才大家都比較沒有關注這個部分但是我認為這個部分\n\n00:43.089 --> 01:00.100\n可能牽涉未來牽涉會蠻大所以我現在是不是先請司法院我們請刑事請這刑事廳廳長麻煩請法務部因為跟這個也跟次長跟這個我們的法務部也有關係了好\n\n01:05.562 --> 01:13.547\n好這個廳長好次長好這個今天齁我們在我們的這個討論事項裡面齁有關於這個刑事訴訟法第71條跟175條的這個修正的這個病案審查齁這個71條跟175條它大概就是\n\n01:22.677 --> 01:44.549\n有關於這個被告跟證人的這些傳票這個大概是增列第三項都增列第三項就是這個傳票如果有外籍配偶外籍人士外籍學生等等相關的這些外籍人士在這個傳票上面應加註該國文字或英文翻譯這個\n\n01:50.033 --> 02:04.478\n這個看起來這個立法是利益良好不過我看了這個我們法務部跟我們司法院針對這個條文的這個書面報告對這個修正都有相當大的保留意見那這個部分我想這個\n\n02:07.988 --> 02:33.518\n因為我們現在目前的這個我們發放傳票不管是被告或者是這個證人目前這個傳票的簽發在偵查中都是由偵查中是由檢察長那在這個審判中是由這個審判長或是受命法官來簽發所以跟這個我們司法院跟法務部都應該都未來如果說今天的修正如果說這樣子修正通過的話\n\n02:34.816 --> 02:48.167\n可能會有相當大的未來會有一些可能自愛難行或者甚至會造成未來你因為拘捕前置的一些原則的違反讓未來整個審判訴訟過程會有一些問題這部分我先請我們\n\n02:57.207 --> 03:18.238\n廳長就這個部分表示意見好不好是委員好有關這個部分的修正我們司法院採取比較保留態度的主要因為在法院組織法99條它本來就是有關司法文書本來就在以本國語言為主但是例外的時候說必要是可以登載附近方言或者是外國語文\n\n03:19.278 --> 03:46.823\n如果當這個是一個整體性的包括行政訴訟文明事務訴訟行政訴訟對法院組織法裡面的規定對包括使用的語言97條這個審判的時候應該使用國語那在這個99條有訴訟文書的文字這個都有規定那以在現行的司法實務上有關於證人或是被告的傳票如果他涉及到外國外籍人士不管他是配偶或是來台工作的\n\n03:48.244 --> 04:04.803\n工作者的所謂我們一般稱的外籍勞工或者是外籍配偶或者是在台來台就學的學生外籍人士我們他有這個需求我們會給他相應的包括通知書也會有相應的一些外國語文的配套\n\n04:05.423 --> 04:19.909\n現在簡單講現在我們的一些司法文書事實上已經有提供相當多的外國語言的譯本現在是一種比較任意性的我們能力做得到的像我們現在常用的印尼文越南文\n\n04:20.509 --> 04:49.671\n英文我看英文日文最多啦英日韓文法定通知書送達書這些刑事被告權益輸送權利告知書這些相關都是英文日文有關這個其他的韓文越南文印尼文泰文馬來文等等在性侵害犯罪的這些陪同人詢問通知書有啦那這個裁判裁判書的救濟程序交試條款也有啦但是這個是目前的司法文書是有這樣子的\n\n04:50.872 --> 05:15.791\n的相關提供相關的這個譯本的這樣子的做法啦這樣做法但是那入法你入在這個這個刑事訴訟法裡面入法讓傳票必須具備這個這個外國語譯文的這樣子的要件跟我們現在這樣的提供司法司法其他司法文書外國語譯本的這種服務\n\n05:17.032 --> 05:32.606\n這個我想是兩回事吧這個強度是不一樣不只是強度差很多會影響到程序上會不會有瑕疵的問題你未來這個就是拘捕前置原則你未來你這個之前的合法性尤其是這個其實\n\n05:34.227 --> 05:59.845\n其實我們在偵查中我們檢察官簽發這個G票這個應該會遇到最大的狀況因為這個事實上在很多偵查甚至審判初級這些被告或是證人的國籍並不一定你在你相關的這個卷內的資料不一定能夠掌握那麼清楚他去了你以為越南文你準備了越南文的船票就去他說他是泰國人\n\n06:01.360 --> 06:16.070\n那這個船票就有瑕疵了這個有瑕疵之後後面你拘提不到你所造成的這些後面的這些法律程序通通拘捕的程序通通會發生效力的問題對不對那這個我想\n\n06:21.369 --> 06:39.130\n現在有委員提案這個修法當然是利益良善針對我國目前這個外籍配偶新住民的人數的增加它是利益良善但是這個實務我們重視的是今天如果這樣我們就這樣委員會就這樣子修法通過我認為是在實務上\n\n06:41.132 --> 07:05.335\n造成實務的衝擊我認為也很不好但是問題是實務上是不是有大量的外籍人士他們因為語言障礙導致外籍被告他因為對於國語不熟悉導致他訴訟權益受損而申請救濟目前有沒有統計我們司法院有沒有統計法務部有沒有統計\n\n07:06.588 --> 07:17.463\n目前是沒有這樣的統計但是我們有特約司法同意的制度我知道我們同意制度現在還需要努力但是已經很努力了我知道但是我現在就講說我們應該要統計一下因為\n\n07:21.528 --> 07:47.515\n不按我們台灣的語言造成他訴訟權益受損來申請救濟這樣子的我認為應該要做個統計啦這是第一點第二點我們司法院跟法務部我們就應該就這個如果說這條修法通過之後他對於這個審理的效力還有他每年會增加的這些人力時間經費的成本有沒有做預估\n\n07:49.537 --> 08:16.343\n目前沒有去做預估現在我們都是任意性的去配合提供但是如果今天修法通過了你們就要就要下去包括人力包括每簽發一張這個船票的時間還有他所需的成本這些我覺得都應該下去估算了這個你才能夠在委員會裡面說服大家說這個如果說今天就這樣子通過可能會在執行上面會有真的很大的自愛難行的部分\n\n08:17.203 --> 08:20.506\n這部分我希望說你們能夠做這個估算那這個\n\n08:24.080 --> 08:47.812\n這個有關通譯的部分這個也是我們專業通譯的這個人力配置我們如果未來今天這個修法如果照這樣通過的話可能未來在這個我們的這個包括法院跟地檢署的行政成本這增加都會造成一些執行的困難所以我在這裡也是就利用這個機緣因為我看今天的大家的討論都是政治性的討論大家沒有\n\n08:48.712 --> 09:07.065\n沒有專注到今天可能同步要進行這個修法我希望說今天這個修法這個董委員會希望所有同仁大家能夠在這個修法上面能夠再審慎一點參考我們司法院跟法務部執法機關的這個的意見那接下來還有一點時間我這個\n\n09:10.207 --> 09:31.022\n今天也利用這難得的機會我們這個行事廳廳長來目前有關這個上市其實今年在3月的時候我就已經有做過質詢有關於我們司法聯盟鏈這個數位證據的真實性跟它的保存的問題這個問題我們從\n\n09:35.469 --> 09:54.616\n2021年開始我們啟動所謂五大司法機關的司法聯盟鏈包括司法院法務部、台高檢、調查局跟警政署這五大司法機關成立的司法聯盟鏈在2024年我們啟動了一個叫做司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台\n\n09:57.017 --> 10:12.543\n那這個也就是說我們希望說透過這個驗證平台讓這個司法警察機關在第一線查扣的時候能夠同時上鏈上鏈之後這個確保這些數位證據因為數位證據的修改篡改它的痕跡很難去判定這個證據整個證據的這個是不是有沒有被篡改有沒有被變造\n\n10:21.166 --> 10:49.599\n這些數位證據的整個從第一線開始一直到最後審判終結的這個統一性的確保所以我們來做這個驗證平台這個實務上事實上也常常發生現在也一直在發生因為這個第一線的司法警察機關他在處理這個數位證據的過程的交接過程裡面他沒有遵守\n\n10:52.168 --> 11:06.873\n這個相關的這些鑑識的規範導致未來在審判過程中幾乎被害人的抗辯很多都是在抗辯這一點這個狀況是現在我們雖然已經做成所謂共同驗證平台但是現在這個有一個很大的這個問題這個\n\n11:10.811 --> 11:20.225\n事實上這個司法檢查機關在這個鑑識過程中他取得這個數位證據他沒有按照行政機關所定的鑑識規範完成記錄的這些交接的流程\n\n11:21.517 --> 11:43.719\n這些他沒有遵守我們這個最高法院有做一個明確的一個表示就認為說這個刑事偵查中的這個偵查機關內部規則對外不具對外的法律效力所以這個即使他沒有按照這個數位證據保全的作業程序的這些規則相關的這些監視規則沒有即使沒有按照這個規則不影響他的證據能力\n\n11:46.301 --> 12:09.446\n這是我們最高法院所做的一個裁定一個表示那這樣子事實上大部分的學說也是支持也支持說確實在這個過程中不應該對外具有法律效力但是他就造成了一個負面的效果就是這些司法警察機關他就便宜行事既然他不影響證據能力所以他在這個\n\n12:15.453 --> 12:23.482\n這個過程他就省事省力執意操作就不按照不按照這個相關的監視程序來走這樣子的問題我們有什麼樣的目前有什麼樣的\n\n12:30.045 --> 12:48.254\n能夠讓他兼具平衡是不是市長來跟委員報告事實上自從這個113年4月這個司法聯盟平台正式成立之後本部跟相關的司法警察機關事實上都不斷的在宣導跟推廣那當然這個我想這個法院的見解應該\n\n12:49.355 --> 13:13.130\n不是說他不影響而是不當然影響也就是說證據統一性仍然會是在個案中法院審判的時候會去斟酌審證的一個內容所以說在偵查的階段我們為了避免會來舉證的時候造成這樣的問題所以我們在內部是非常努力的在推廣相關的這個做法建立SOP\n\n13:13.670 --> 13:31.102\n希望我們所有的現在實際上的整個審判過程事實上很多被告幾乎就是用這個在抗辯因為我們才剛剛這個啟用這個時間上還短我相信未來應該會逐步來改善那是不是有沒有考慮我們把這個整個數位證據的取得規定我們就明文入法\n\n13:32.763 --> 13:46.950\n我想這個部分因為每個個案可能還是會有他的不一樣的情形這個這樣子時間到請司法院跟法務部我們針對這個有關數位證據的修法評估做一個書面報告給我好不好是不是能夠修法我們來說明好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":13.856,"end":41.462,"text":"主席 各位同仁我們今天的這個有關討論事項有關我們今天的這個會議事項的第三項有關病案審查這個刑事訴訟法第七十一條跟一百七十五條條文的修正草案這個部分我想今天利用這個時間來這個進行一些了解跟討論因為這個我看剛才大家都比較沒有關注這個部分但是我認為這個部分"},{"start":43.089,"end":60.1,"text":"可能牽涉未來牽涉會蠻大所以我現在是不是先請司法院我們請刑事請這刑事廳廳長麻煩請法務部因為跟這個也跟次長跟這個我們的法務部也有關係了好"},{"start":65.562,"end":73.547,"text":"好 這個 廳長好 次長好這個今天齁 我們在我們的這個討論事項裡面齁有關於這個刑事訴訟法第71條跟175條的這個修正的這個病案審查齁這個71條跟175條它大概就是"},{"start":82.677,"end":104.549,"text":"有關於這個被告跟證人的這些傳票這個大概是增列第三項 都增列第三項就是這個傳票如果有外籍配偶 外籍人士 外籍學生等等相關的這些外籍人士在這個傳票上面應加註該國文字或英文翻譯這個"},{"start":110.033,"end":124.478,"text":"這個看起來這個立法是利益良好不過我看了這個我們法務部跟我們司法院針對這個條文的這個書面報告對這個修正都有相當大的保留意見那這個部分我想這個"},{"start":127.988,"end":153.518,"text":"因為我們現在目前的這個我們發放傳票不管是被告或者是這個證人目前這個傳票的簽發在偵查中都是由 偵查中是由檢察長那在這個審判中是由這個審判長或是受命法官來簽發所以跟這個我們司法院跟法務部都應該都未來如果說今天的修正如果說這樣子修正通過的話"},{"start":154.816,"end":168.167,"text":"可能會有相當大的未來會有一些可能自愛難行或者甚至會造成未來你因為拘捕前置的一些原則的違反讓未來整個審判訴訟過程會有一些問題這部分我先請我們"},{"start":177.207,"end":198.238,"text":"廳長 就這個部分表示意見好不好是 委員好有關這個部分的修正我們司法院採取比較保留態度的主要因為在法院組織法99條它本來就是有關司法文書本來就在以本國語言為主但是例外的時候說必要是可以登載附近方言或者是外國語文"},{"start":199.278,"end":226.823,"text":"如果當 這個是一個整體性的包括行政訴訟 文明事務訴訟 行政訴訟對 法院組織法裡面的規定 對包括使用的語言 97條這個審判的時候應該使用國語那在這個99條有訴訟文書的文字這個都有規定那以在現行的司法實務上有關於證人或是被告的傳票如果他涉及到外國 外籍人士不管他是配偶或是來台工作的"},{"start":228.244,"end":244.803,"text":"工作者的所謂我們一般稱的外籍勞工或者是外籍配偶或者是在台來台就學的學生外籍人士我們他有這個需求我們會給他相應的包括通知書也會有相應的一些外國語文的配套"},{"start":245.423,"end":259.909,"text":"現在簡單講現在我們的一些司法文書事實上已經有提供相當多的外國語言的譯本現在是一種比較任意性的我們能力做得到的像我們現在常用的印尼文 越南文"},{"start":260.509,"end":289.671,"text":"英文 我看英文日文最多啦英日韓文 法定通知書 送達書這些刑事被告權益輸送權利告知書這些相關都是英文日文有關這個其他的韓文 越南文 印尼文泰文 馬來文等等在性侵害犯罪的這些陪同人詢問通知書有啦那這個裁判裁判書的救濟程序交試條款也有啦但是這個是目前的司法文書是有這樣子的"},{"start":290.872,"end":315.791,"text":"的相關 提供相關的這個譯本的這樣子的做法啦 這樣做法 但是那入法 你入 在這個這個刑事訴訟法裡面入法讓傳票必須具備這個這個外國語譯文的這樣子的要件跟我們現在這樣的提供司法司法 其他司法文書 外國語譯本的這種服務"},{"start":317.032,"end":332.606,"text":"這個我想是兩回事吧這個強度是不一樣不只是強度差很多會影響到程序上會不會有瑕疵的問題你未來這個就是拘捕前置原則你未來你這個之前的合法性尤其是這個其實"},{"start":334.227,"end":359.845,"text":"其實我們在偵查中我們檢察官簽發這個G票這個應該會遇到最大的狀況因為這個事實上在很多偵查甚至審判初級這些被告或是證人的國籍並不一定你在你相關的這個卷內的資料不一定能夠掌握那麼清楚他去了 你以為越南文你準備了越南文的船票就去他說他是泰國人"},{"start":361.36,"end":376.07,"text":"那這個船票就有瑕疵了這個有瑕疵之後後面你拘提不到你所造成的這些後面的這些法律程序通通拘捕的程序通通會發生效力的問題對不對那這個我想"},{"start":381.369,"end":399.13,"text":"現在有委員提案這個修法當然是利益良善針對我國目前這個外籍配偶新住民的人數的增加它是利益良善但是這個實務我們重視的是今天如果這樣我們就這樣委員會就這樣子修法通過我認為是在實務上"},{"start":401.132,"end":425.335,"text":"造成實務的衝擊 我認為也很不好但是問題是實務上是不是有大量的外籍人士他們因為語言障礙導致外籍被告他因為對於國語不熟悉導致他訴訟權益受損而申請救濟目前有沒有統計 我們司法院有沒有統計法務部有沒有統計"},{"start":426.588,"end":437.463,"text":"目前是沒有這樣的統計但是我們有特約司法同意的制度我知道我們同意制度現在還需要努力但是已經很努力了我知道但是我現在就講說我們應該要統計一下因為"},{"start":441.528,"end":467.515,"text":"不按我們台灣的語言造成他訴訟權益受損來申請救濟這樣子的我認為應該要做個統計啦這是第一點 第二點我們司法院跟法務部我們就應該就這個如果說這條修法通過之後他對於這個審理的效力還有他每年會增加的這些人力時間經費的成本有沒有做預估"},{"start":469.537,"end":496.343,"text":"目前沒有去做預估現在我們都是任意性的去配合提供但是如果今天修法通過了你們就要就要下去包括人力包括每簽發一張這個船票的時間還有他所需的成本這些我覺得都應該下去估算了這個你才能夠在委員會裡面說服大家說這個如果說今天就這樣子通過可能會在執行上面會有真的很大的自愛難行的部分"},{"start":497.203,"end":500.506,"text":"這部分我希望說你們能夠做這個估算那這個"},{"start":504.08,"end":527.812,"text":"這個有關通譯的部分這個也是我們專業通譯的這個人力配置我們如果未來今天這個修法如果照這樣通過的話可能未來在這個我們的這個包括法院跟地檢署的行政成本這增加都會造成一些執行的困難所以我在這裡也是就利用這個機緣因為我看今天的大家的討論都是政治性的討論大家沒有"},{"start":528.712,"end":547.065,"text":"沒有專注到今天可能同步要進行這個修法我希望說今天這個修法這個董委員會希望所有同仁大家能夠在這個修法上面能夠再審慎一點參考我們司法院跟法務部執法機關的這個的意見那接下來還有一點時間我這個"},{"start":550.207,"end":571.022,"text":"今天也利用這難得的機會我們這個行事廳廳長來目前有關這個上市其實今年在3月的時候我就已經有做過質詢有關於我們司法聯盟鏈這個數位證據的真實性跟它的保存的問題這個問題我們從"},{"start":575.469,"end":594.616,"text":"2021年開始我們啟動所謂五大司法機關的司法聯盟鏈包括司法院法務部、台高檢、調查局跟警政署這五大司法機關成立的司法聯盟鏈在2024年我們啟動了一個叫做司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平台"},{"start":597.017,"end":612.543,"text":"那這個也就是說我們希望說透過這個驗證平台讓這個司法警察機關在第一線查扣的時候能夠同時上鏈上鏈之後這個確保這些數位證據因為數位證據的修改篡改它的痕跡很難去判定這個證據整個證據的這個是不是有沒有被篡改有沒有被變造"},{"start":621.166,"end":649.599,"text":"這些數位證據的整個從第一線開始一直到最後審判終結的這個統一性的確保所以我們來做這個驗證平台這個實務上事實上也常常發生現在也一直在發生因為這個第一線的司法警察機關他在處理這個數位證據的過程的交接過程裡面他沒有遵守"},{"start":652.168,"end":666.873,"text":"這個相關的這些鑑識的規範導致未來在審判過程中幾乎被害人的抗辯很多都是在抗辯這一點這個狀況是現在我們雖然已經做成所謂共同驗證平台但是現在這個有一個很大的這個問題這個"},{"start":670.811,"end":680.225,"text":"事實上這個司法檢查機關在這個鑑識過程中他取得這個數位證據他沒有按照行政機關所定的鑑識規範完成記錄的這些交接的流程"},{"start":681.517,"end":703.719,"text":"這些他沒有遵守我們這個最高法院有做一個明確的一個表示就認為說這個刑事偵查中的這個偵查機關內部規則對外不具對外的法律效力所以這個即使他沒有按照這個數位證據保全的作業程序的這些規則相關的這些監視規則沒有即使沒有按照這個規則不影響他的證據能力"},{"start":706.301,"end":729.446,"text":"這是我們最高法院所做的一個裁定一個表示那這樣子事實上大部分的學說也是支持也支持說確實在這個過程中不應該對外具有法律效力但是他就造成了一個負面的效果就是這些司法警察機關他就便宜行事既然他不影響證據能力所以他在這個"},{"start":735.453,"end":743.482,"text":"這個過程他就省事省力 執意操作就不按照不按照這個相關的監視程序來走這樣子的問題我們有什麼樣的目前有什麼樣的"},{"start":750.045,"end":768.254,"text":"能夠讓他兼具平衡 是不是市長來跟委員報告 事實上自從這個113年4月這個司法聯盟平台正式成立之後本部跟相關的司法警察機關事實上都不斷的在宣導跟推廣那當然這個 我想這個法院的見解應該"},{"start":769.355,"end":793.13,"text":"不是說他不影響 而是不當然影響也就是說證據統一性仍然會是在個案中 法院審判的時候會去斟酌審證的一個內容所以說在偵查的階段我們為了避免會來舉證的時候造成這樣的問題所以我們在內部是非常努力的在推廣相關的這個做法 建立SOP"},{"start":793.67,"end":811.102,"text":"希望我們所有的現在實際上的整個審判過程事實上很多被告幾乎就是用這個在抗辯因為我們才剛剛這個啟用這個時間上還短我相信未來應該會逐步來改善那是不是有沒有考慮我們把這個整個數位證據的取得規定我們就明文入法"},{"start":812.763,"end":826.95,"text":"我想這個部分因為每個個案可能還是會有他的不一樣的情形這個這樣子 時間到 請司法院跟法務部我們針對這個有關數位證據的修法評估做一個書面報告給我好不好是不是能夠修法我們來說明 好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":595,"blocks":[["沈委員發惠：（10時48分）主席，各位同仁，今天的討論事項第三項，有關併案審查刑事訴訟法第七十一條跟第一百七十五條條文修正草案，我想利用今天這個時間來進行一些了解跟討論，因為我看剛才大家都比較沒有關注這個部分，但是我認為這個部分可能未來牽涉也蠻大，所以我現在是不是先請司法院刑事廳長？"],["主席：好，麻煩廳長。"],["沈委員發惠：請法務部，因為這個跟法務部也有關係。"],["主席：請次長。"],["黃次長世杰：委員好。"],["沈委員發惠：廳長好、次長好。今天在討論事項有關於刑事訴訟法第七十一條跟第一百七十五條的修正併案審查，這個第七十一條跟第一百七十五條就是有關於被告跟證人的傳票，都增列第三項，關於這個傳票，如果有外籍配偶、外籍人士、外籍學生等等相關的外籍人士，在傳票上面應加註該國文字或英文翻譯。看起來這個立法立意良好，不過在書面報告中，法務部及司法院對這個修正都持相當大的保留意見。目前傳票的簽發，不管是被告或證人，在偵查中是由檢察長負責，在審判中則由審判長或受命法官簽發。若今天這個修正通過，未來司法院及法務部可能會覺得窒礙難行，甚至違反拘捕前置原則，讓整個審判訴訟過程出現問題。這部分是不是先請廳長表示意見？"],["李廳長釱任：委員好。有關這部分的修正，司法院採取比較保留的態度，主要是因為法院組織法第九十九條規定，司法文書本來就要以本國語言為主，例外時，有必要可以登載附記方言或外國語文。這是整體性的，包括行政訴訟、民事訴訟，或是其他行政機關都有類似規定……"],["沈委員發惠：對，這是法院組織法裡面的規定。"],["李廳長釱任：對、對……"],["沈委員發惠：包括使用的語言，第九十七條提到，審判時應使用國語；第九十九條則針對訴訟文書的文字有規定。"],["李廳長釱任：在現行司法實務上，有關證人或被告的傳票，如果涉及外籍人士，不管是外籍配偶或來臺工作的外籍勞工或來臺就學的學生，只要有這個需求，我們會給他相應的，包括通知書在內，會有相應的外國語文配套……"],["沈委員發惠：簡單講，現在的司法文書已經提供相當多的外國語言譯本……"],["李廳長釱任：現在是比較任意性的，也就是能力做得到的，比如現在常用的印尼文、越南文、英文……"],["沈委員發惠：我看英文、日文最多……"],["李廳長釱任：英、日、韓文都有。"],["沈委員發惠：通知書、送達書、刑事被告訴訟權利告知書，都有英文、日文譯本，其他的像韓文、越南文、印尼文、泰文、馬來文等等，在性侵害犯罪案件的陪同人詢問通知書有，裁判書的救濟程序教示條款也有。目前的司法文書是：有提供相關譯本這樣的作法，但要在刑事訴訟法裡入法，讓傳票必須具備外國語譯文的要件，跟現在提供司法文書的外國文譯本服務，是兩回事吧？"],["李廳長釱任：強度是不一樣的……"],["沈委員發惠：不只強度差很多……"],["李廳長釱任：而且會影響到所有程序上會不會有瑕疵的問題！"],["沈委員發惠：對，像是拘捕前置原則，之前的合法性可能會有問題。其實在偵查中檢察官簽發拘票應該會遇到最大狀況！很多在偵查中，甚至在審判初期，被告或證人的國籍在相關卷內的資料不一定能掌握得那麼清楚。如果你以為需要越南文，準備了越南文的傳票，結果一去他說他是泰國人。此時這個傳票就有瑕疵了！有瑕疵之後就拘提不到，將使後面相關的法律程序、拘捕程序通通發生效力問題，對不對？","現在有委員提案修法固然立意良善，特別是針對外籍朋友、新住民的人數增加來說立意良善，但我們所重視的是，若今天委員會就這樣修法通過，我認為在實務上會造成衝擊，這樣也很不好。問題是，實務上是不是有大量的外籍人士因為語言障礙，加上外籍被告對國語不熟悉，致其訴訟權益受損而聲請救濟？目前有沒有統計？司法院有沒有統計？法務部有沒有統計？"],["李廳長釱任：目前是沒有這樣的統計，但我們有司法特約通譯的制度……"],["沈委員發惠：我知道，我們的通譯制度現在還是需要努力，不過你們已經很努力了。我現在是說我們應該要統計一下，因不諳臺灣語言，造成其訴訟權益受損而聲請救濟的，我認為應該要做個統計，這是第一點。第二點，如果這個修法通過，司法院跟法務部應該就審理效力，以及每年所增加的人力、時間、經費的成本做預估，你們有沒有做預估？"],["李廳長釱任：目前沒有預估……"],["沈委員發惠：你們沒有預估？"],["李廳長釱任：現在我們都是任意性去配合提供。"],["沈委員發惠：我知道現在是任意性配合，但如果今天這個修法通過，你們就要就人力，包括每簽發一張傳票的時間，還有所需成本下去估算，這樣才能在委員會裡說服大家，如果今天就這樣通過，可能在執行上真的有很大的窒礙難行之處！這部分我希望你們能夠做估算。","有關通譯部分，即專業通譯的人力配置問題，如果今天這個修法通過，未來不管法院或地檢署的行政成本會增加，也會造成執行上的困難。所以我在這裡利用這個機會提出，因為我看今天大家多做政治性討論，而沒有關注到可能要同步進行這個修法。針對今天這個修法，我希望本委員會所有同仁能再審慎一點，同時參考司法院跟法務部執法機關的意見。","接下來還有一點時間，今天刑事廳廳長來，所以我利用這難得的機會就教。","今年3月我已經質詢過有關司法聯盟鏈數位證據的真實性及保存問題。從2021年開始，我們啟動五大司法機關的司法聯盟鏈，包括司法院、法務部、臺高檢、調查局跟警政署五大司法機關成立了司法聯盟鏈，並於2024年啟動司法聯盟鏈共同驗證平臺。我們希望透過這個驗證平臺，讓司法警察機關在第一線查扣時能同時上鏈，以確保數位證據，因為數位證據的修改、篡改痕跡很難判定。換言之，證據有沒有被篡改，有沒有被變造，數位證據必須從第一線開始，一直到最後審判終結確保其同一性，故而成立驗證平臺。","實務上常常發生，現在也一直在發生，因為第一線的司法警察機關在處理數位證據的過程及交接過程中，沒有遵守相關鑑識規範，導致之後在審判過程中，很多被害人的抗辯幾乎都在抗辯這一點！雖然我們已經設立共同驗證平臺，但這是現在有的一個很大問題。司法警察機關在鑑識過程中取得數位證據時，並沒有按照行政機關所訂的鑑識規範完整紀錄交接流程，這些他沒有遵守！對此，最高法院有做明確表示，刑事偵查中偵查機關內部規則不具對外的法律效力，所以即使他沒有按照數位證據保全作業程序的規則、相關的鑑識規則處理，不影響它的證據能力，這是最高法院所做的一個裁定，事實上，大部分的學說也是支持在這個過程中，它不應該對外具有法律效力，但是它就造成了一個負面的效果，就是這些司法警察機關就便宜行事，既然它不影響證據能力，所以他在這個過程就省事、省力、恣意操作，就不按照相關的鑑識程序來走了，這樣子的問題，我們目前有什麼樣能夠讓它兼具平衡，是不是次長來……"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，事實上，自從113年4月司法聯盟鏈平台正式成立之後，本部跟相關的司法警察機關都不斷在宣導跟推廣，我想最高法院的見解應該不是說它不影響，而是不當然影響，也就是說，其實證據同一性……"],["沈委員發惠：他說不具對外的法律效力……"],["黃次長世杰：仍然會是在個案中，法院審判的時候，會去斟酌審認的內容，所以在偵查的階段，我們為了避免未來舉證的時候造成這樣的問題，所以我們內部非常努力在推廣相關的作法、建立SOP，希望我們所有的偵查程序裡面都可以做……"],["沈委員發惠：但是現在整個審判過程，事實上，很多被告幾乎就是用這個在抗辯。"],["黃次長世杰：對，因為我們才剛剛啟用，時間上很短，我相信未來應該會逐步來改善。"],["沈委員發惠：有沒有考慮把整個數位證據取得規定明文入法，直接入刑事訴訟法？"],["黃次長世杰：我想這個部分，因為每個個案可能還是會有不一樣的情形，如果一律都……"],["沈委員發惠：因為時間到了，請司法院跟法務部針對有關數位證據的修法評估做一個書面報告給我，好不好？"],["黃次長世杰：好，那我們來說明。"],["李廳長釱任：我們來跟法務部一起……"],["沈委員發惠：好，謝謝。"],["黃次長世杰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請羅智強委員發言。待會在羅智強委員詢答完畢後，休息5分鐘。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-24","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","林倩綺","陳培瑜","沈發惠","羅智強","麥玉珍","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷","吳沛憶","王鴻薇"],"page_start":235,"meetingDate":["2025-08-14"],"gazette_id":"1147302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處人事長、中央選舉委員會主任委員、法務部廉政署署\n長、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「政務人員應否及如何遵守行政中立原\n則、行政機關於選舉罷免期間應為如何之宣導與落實」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查\n(一)考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員邱志偉等21人擬具\n「公務人員考績法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「公務人員考績法第十\n二條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」\n案、( 五) 委員范雲等17 人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條、第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案」\n案；三、併案審查(一)委員傅崐萁等25人、(二)委員郭昱晴等18人分別擬具「刑事訴訟法第七十\n一條及第一百七十五條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1147302_00005"}}}