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\"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"林\", \"start\": 1120.026, \"end\": 1120.246, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"淑\", \"start\": 1120.246, \"end\": 1120.407, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"恩\", \"start\": 1120.407, \"end\": 1120.527, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1120.527, \"end\": 1120.547, \"score\": 0.069}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:06,465 --> 00:00:08,986\n好謝謝主席是不是來請我們邱部長委員好部長千戶萬患使出來你們的所謂的狼醫的平台的建制本來是要為了這個強化民眾的知情權和保障病人的這個安全結果千戶萬患使出來面紗一揭開\n\n2\n00:00:33,951 --> 00:00:56,439\n這就是在對立法院虛擬委員有做到好啊做高台的唐瑟敷衍我們這些立委唐瑟敷衍我們這個社會那先行的制度啊他只揭露目前為止只揭露112年以後性平判決確定的案件這樣的標準真的能夠回應社會大眾的擔憂嗎\n\n3\n00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:07,523\n我要再講你們醫事司的司長強硬的表示他只這樣子做你看都不用來現在出名的都是副司長發言現在是醫事司都沒有司長啊是不是還是他長大都不用出來密碟保證後面還是聽說密碟司署長後面署長你謙遜的啊你謙遜的啊很大的\n\n4\n00:01:23,267 --> 00:01:26,548\n我現在舉幾個例子你們認為嚴不嚴重但我要再問你們這幾個案子都在現行的制度裡面平台裡面都不會被揭露第一個案子喔\n\n5\n00:01:43,336 --> 00:01:44,297\n你知道他為什麼不會被揭露嗎\n\n6\n00:02:15,030 --> 00:02:28,136\n跟委員做報告他不是不會被揭露是我們有一部分的資料還是要跟司法院去揭所以是資料會再加上我要叫你保定回答判決確定了109年就判決確定了\n\n7\n00:02:32,793 --> 00:02:49,345\n我們不好意思報告委員齁我們第一個階段先把112年性平三法開始實行以後的的一個啊112年以前要多久要多久對啊您現在先公佈112年以後的判決啊以前的要多久要花多久時間這些東西這麼困難嗎要多久\n\n8\n00:03:04,244 --> 00:03:26,912\n回答不出來我們現在現階段先我知道啊如果說大家的意見要所以嘛我的講不會被揭露因為問你112年以前的要多久會被揭露你回答不出來你說我們不是不做是未來要做那未來是要多久的時間以後才會做你回答不出來啊這不是在給我們爭笑的嗎\n\n9\n00:03:30,145 --> 00:03:45,945\n我們總是要有一個一個開始的時程對啊那我問你的期程規劃112年以前的要花多久時間啊我們目前當然是先規劃112年剩平主席我告訴你這時間暫停\n\n10\n00:03:47,864 --> 00:04:00,062\n他的答非所問112年以前判決的他的規劃的期程要花多久時間他會讓大家都可以查詢的出來他還在講112年以後還在講112年目前\n\n11\n00:04:04,198 --> 00:04:30,096\n我再問他要花多少的時間他會輸定不來補定不知道你整個制度是在規約什麼你沒辦法回答得出來我們一直都有規約在討論而且我們親自主持啦那112年以前的到底要追溯到多久不是追溯到多久是多久你要準備多久才能夠讓我們可以完整的查詢你會補充嗎\n\n12\n00:04:35,514 --> 00:05:00,652\n跟委員報告事實上我們前段的做法是你昨天為什麼都不來都要靠你靠我演對外發言也是都靠你是怎麼樣呃劉市長一直有在處理這個事情我現在看到媒體上發言也不是他已經很多次了都不是他到立法院也不來昨天有來啦昨天公聽會有來啦昨天公聽會有來今天有立委要質詢的就不來昨天沒有立委質詢他的就來啦\n\n13\n00:05:03,243 --> 00:05:27,956\n哎呀不要這樣子護航啦博電你能耐就好了你叫很多醫事團體都出來跟你聲援繼續留任啊連建築師公會都出來聲援啦建築師公會都出來聲援啦叫一個書長來叫不來喔好啦我覺得現在事情又很多我跟你台北廖姓郎一另外一個姓平案件喔他\n\n14\n00:05:29,216 --> 00:05:47,900\n我們主張不應該只有局限於對病人也應該包含職場教學之便的這個範圍台北廖姓郎醫在今年有一個廖姓郎醫對護理師性騷擾114年判刑定讞請問他會不會被揭露\n\n15\n00:05:49,785 --> 00:06:07,096\n會不會今年剛定業不會對病跟委員報告目前在資訊專區所揭露的不管是對病人對住院醫師還有對其他團隊的成員只要有犯這樣的罪都會把他做揭露\n\n16\n00:06:07,296 --> 00:06:20,042\n你們的說明裡面沒有喔你們現在只有侷限在對病人喔對於同事對於職場教學之便的範圍的沒有納入規範喔你不是在這裡生氣嗎你們的內容你們揭露的範圍不在裡面喔好我想鮑偉我想那個內容的充實以及那個掌握度我想我們會一直在加強\n\n17\n00:06:36,926 --> 00:06:40,748\n柏中你現在在說什麼我都聽不懂還有呢我再講幾個再講四個不會被揭露的已經懲處決議或調查已經確認了但沒有進入司法程序第一個新北的陳姓郎一109年利用植物之變在整間幼島變幻發生關係事後還改姓名\n\n18\n00:07:01,799 --> 00:07:23,280\n111年遭懲戒現在跨縣市職業還擔任醫院裡的主管職他不會被揭露啊因為沒有當事人沒有告他沒有判沒有刑事訴訟啊這也不會被揭露跨縣市還擔任主管職你覺得這個要讓大家知道嗎\n\n19\n00:07:30,618 --> 00:07:52,058\n下一階段就是有懲戒被懲戒處分的資料我們也會做好來下一階段是什麼時候我現在就是要聽你下一階段沒有啦我現在不要聽你不要轉移焦點副司長說下一個階段你們連懲戒都要可以被查詢那下一個階段是多久以後你來告訴我\n\n20\n00:07:54,434 --> 00:08:01,600\n不可以在這裡騙立委啊當初立委很好分立委都亂說很好騙下一階段是多久\n\n21\n00:08:04,096 --> 00:08:29,337\n報告委員因為我們網路已經建立了嘛那個的確是突破性啦這個請委員要肯定一下什麼突破性我給你1月2月在野黨提案我們一直諮詢我已經諮詢這個第4次了第4次啦我們也跟司法院有聯繫司法院也因為都一直沒有給我們回應所以我們只好用有一點用人工方式一直在蒐集你們\n\n22\n00:08:31,919 --> 00:08:48,434\n我們懲戒紀錄是在地方政府就有的懲戒紀錄跟司法院無關這是行政調查行政懲戒懲戒紀錄要在地方它每個格式或者任務都不太一樣格式不一樣那我問你我要叫你立即馬上嗎已經諮詢了三個月四個月五個月了你到底要花多久的時間你就告訴我我們不要一拖再拖又拖\n\n23\n00:08:57,802 --> 00:09:06,447\n我跟大家報告還是要報告一下現況嘛現況就是各個地方現在這種他們要給一個標準的格式你不要用技術面來講我都不愛聽我今天問你你認為要多久的時間你說要一年就一年半年就半年你告訴我一個答案告訴全國的人民\n\n24\n00:09:22,065 --> 00:09:38,705\n要多久我們醫事師認得他的在技術方面我要是能夠隨時公佈我明天也公佈也沒關係沒關係啦我問你愛老公我有你時間啦\n\n25\n00:09:40,468 --> 00:10:04,815\n但是我要看那個實際上他們在沒有啦你跟我說要多久啦意思是認為半年內可以來完成半年內你來告訴我有懲戒紀錄的也會被揭露也可以查詢出來那改了名字的還有跨縣市職業的那一些你們原來醫事系統查詢的會不會改善要多久時間改善我已經質詢到四本了\n\n26\n00:10:06,516 --> 00:10:20,852\n因為他改名字以後是不是我們能夠找到這個我就不敢講但是不管他跨縣市他還是留有紀錄啊那些紀錄就會上去啦你們的醫事查詢系統查不到啦我現在是在說你們的醫事查詢系統\n\n27\n00:10:21,513 --> 00:10:25,656\n我講資訊在四邊你現在都聽不懂我問你高雄曾姓郎一趁診療機會取得變換聯絡資訊進行性騷擾然後114年遭懲戒停業兩個月現在還在職業桃園高姓郎一110年診療時藉著甲狀腺問題影響性荷爾蒙為由對變換進行內診還趁機性侵強吻\n\n28\n00:10:48,189 --> 00:11:01,655\n直到護理師進來才停止112年這麼嚴重當時沒有進行刑事訴訟但112年遭懲戒到目前沒有定業有訴訟但沒有定業還在職業當中\n\n29\n00:11:03,556 --> 00:11:18,722\n第四個台中陳姓郎一113到144年之間多次假借看診名義習胸摸腿他們地方政府認定為性騷擾成立但是還沒有懲戒記錄\n\n30\n00:11:20,219 --> 00:11:44,004\n我現在說的是什麼你們現行的揭露的機制的漏洞112年以前的目前還查不到只有懲處記錄的沒有辦法查得到調查台中市政府調查確認了也沒有公佈案件尚未定業的都可能因為系統限制而不被揭露而你們說還要再準備半年我很擔心你半年之後\n\n31\n00:11:45,140 --> 00:12:06,576\n還是沒有辦法做好但是這些案子並不會沒有揭露而不存在這種案件通常會牽涉到權勢的壓力還有心理的創傷很多甚至我講了他沒有辦法進入訴訟程序因為很多不敢講嘛然後加上醫生換了名字的跨縣市職業的\n\n32\n00:12:08,072 --> 00:12:20,803\n你的醫事查詢系統根本就查不出來你公告在你的人醫平台但人醫平台在改名字了他換的地方職業了在你的醫事查詢系統\n\n33\n00:12:21,923 --> 00:12:42,137\n差不出來你沒有整合所以你讓一般病患要辨識狼醫他的困難度很高反而變成了不良醫師的保護傘因為你公告狼醫叫陳某某你到醫師查詢系統又改名字了\n\n34\n00:12:43,198 --> 00:12:53,515\n所以我真的跟你說第四遍第五遍我不知道要說幾遍判決不是唯一認定違反醫療倫理的標準你們這樣子你們\n\n35\n00:12:56,087 --> 00:13:14,624\n你們目前的做委員其實是真的大家需要委員我們你對醫事專業團體不是行政人員調查的是醫事專業團體他們所做的這個地方政府做的調查醫事團體做的決策和決議\n\n36\n00:13:16,465 --> 00:13:35,682\n案例調查跟他們的醫治團體專業你們信任度不足嗎違反醫療倫理的也不是只限於性平案件倒刷健保卡僱用密醫使用非法的療法等等都嚴重的破壞醫病的信任這一些難道我們病患沒有知情權嗎\n\n37\n00:13:37,293 --> 00:14:06,493\n所以我們在這裡再一次呼籲揭露所有的判決書和懲戒紀錄也不限於性平案件和時間範圍而且你再講剛剛講了六個月六個月要確保我們下次查詢資訊可追溯可查驗還有第三個你的醫師查詢平台跟你的狼醫公告平台改名了跨縣市人你不整合在一起\n\n38\n00:14:07,634 --> 00:14:14,983\n現在又逍遙法外你的查詢系統又變成狼醫的護身符這樣要怎麼做\n\n39\n00:14:16,755 --> 00:14:36,808\n委員所執行的我們一定都會去重視跟改善請放心那個我們剛剛所提的你的質疑我們一定都會去不是啦我不要聽到你重視跟改善那第二個就是說我們關於說是不是在調查期間能夠停止這個我們在8月下旬我有講到調查期間停職嗎會我有講到這句話嗎\n\n40\n00:14:37,648 --> 00:14:43,733\n沒有就是說我是說我們在做一些可能過去大家我沒有講到這個欸我告訴你就舉了法務部的律師查詢系統那麼簡單你根本要跟整合你的醫事查詢系統跟你的人醫整個平台整合在一起像法務部的律師查詢系統\n\n41\n00:15:03,610 --> 00:15:29,063\n查詢出來他的懲戒紀錄都有他現在職業狀態他的地址你再加上一個改名他的職業縣市在桃園有職業在新北有職業這樣子會很難嗎為什麼人家法務部做得到你做不到法務院其實都查得到但是有現在全部都查不到你不要胡說八道我的意思就是說人眼都查得到啦\n\n42\n00:15:30,123 --> 00:15:44,071\n你們衛福部查得到病患人民永遠查不到啦現在都還查不到啦是查得到現在比較多拒絕要暴露他身份的就是護理人員比較多啦我們有一個我不是跟你講了你的類別可以強度不用一樣嘛\n\n43\n00:15:48,993 --> 00:16:05,964\n你對醫師所要揭露的資訊跟對一個護理師復健師驗光師所要揭露的你去分等級嘛我知道我知道這這麼簡單的事情我就不知道你們到底是怎麼想這就沒辦法做了兩者都沒辦法做了我不知道你醫事師的領略是要做什麼我今天來的計算都還沒開始啦老實說\n\n44\n00:16:17,403 --> 00:16:27,986\n我們針對進口藥品原料的課稅對我國產業造成的影響老實說一個字都還沒諮詢這件事這麼簡單我已經說第四遍了啦第五遍了啦好我們會繼續把它做得更好半年內\n\n45\n00:16:37,250 --> 00:16:54,222\n我所質詢的全部都會得到答案嗎不過我還是跟委員報告一下醫師可以提供的資料跟律師其實是不太一樣因為他們的工作性質真的就不太一樣你不要去說這些啦那另外就是說現在要叫你揭露這個人有沒有懲戒紀錄有沒有判刑紀錄他的職業他是在哪個地方職業哪一個縣市職業\n\n46\n00:17:04,309 --> 00:17:08,118\n這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼\n\n47\n00:17:14,392 --> 00:17:23,377\n但是我們要照規定來做啊都尾不合規定啊我問你啊都尾不合規定啊我剛才說的都尾不合規定啊要我用個資保護法來說嗎我已經這三遍了你在上面說沒問題啊現在又開始了又來揮啊又來擄又來翻啊反反覆覆亦反亦復啊小人心啊亦漲亦退啊山西水俗語俗語\n\n48\n00:17:46,866 --> 00:18:09,510\n反反覆覆啦不能這樣啦這麼簡單的事情還是要多補充就做得出來多輸充就做得出來補充你是要輸充娃娃的就有人會做出來了啦啊啦沒辦法沒了補充娃娃的沒地方就做出來了啦我不知道你的困難是在哪裡你的困難到底是在哪裡啊\n\n49\n00:18:11,963 --> 00:18:40,547\n法律工具有限法律有侷限那律師的工具為什麼沒有受限好我想這個部分那個你要多用一點心啦我跟你講喔已經第四遍第五遍再講也不好好啦今天的主題下一次再諮詢喔因為我再講下去我想我要避免他也要避免啦好啦好啦我們會繼續努力喔謝謝林淑恩委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6465\t8986\t好謝謝主席是不是來請我們邱部長委員好部長千戶萬患使出來你們的所謂的狼醫的平台的建制本來是要為了這個強化民眾的知情權和保障病人的這個安全結果千戶萬患使出來面紗一揭開\n33951\t56439\t這就是在對立法院虛擬委員有做到好啊 做高台的唐瑟敷衍我們這些立委唐瑟敷衍我們這個社會那先行的制度啊他只揭露目前為止只揭露112年以後性平判決確定的案件這樣的標準真的能夠回應社會大眾的擔憂嗎\n58320\t67523\t我要再講你們醫事司的司長強硬的表示他只這樣子做你看都不用來 現在出名的都是副司長發言現在是醫事司都沒有司長啊是不是還是他長大都不用出來 密碟保證後面還是聽說密碟司署長後面署長你謙遜的啊 你謙遜的啊 很大的\n83267\t86548\t我現在舉幾個例子你們認為嚴不嚴重但我要再問你們這幾個案子都在現行的制度裡面平台裡面都不會被揭露第一個案子喔\n103336\t104297\t你知道他為什麼不會被揭露嗎\n135030\t148136\t跟委員做報告 他不是不會被揭露是我們有一部分的資料還是要跟司法院去揭所以是資料會再加上 我要叫你保定回答判決確定了 109年就判決確定了\n152793\t169345\t我們不好意思 報告委員齁我們第一個階段先把112年性平三法開始實行以後的的一個啊112年以前要多久要多久對啊 您現在先公佈112年以後的判決啊以前的要多久 要花多久時間這些東西這麼困難嗎要多久\n184244\t206912\t回答不出來 我們現在現階段先我知道啊 如果說大家的意見要所以嘛 我的講不會被揭露 因為問你112年以前的要多久會被揭露 你回答不出來你說我們不是不做 是未來要做 那未來是要多久的時間以後才會做你回答不出來 啊這不是在給我們爭笑的嗎\n210145\t225945\t我們總是要有一個一個開始的時程對啊那我問你的期程規劃112年以前的要花多久時間啊我們目前當然是先規劃112年剩平 主席我告訴你這時間暫停\n227864\t240062\t他的答非所問 112年以前判決的他的規劃的期程要花多久時間他會讓大家都可以查詢的出來他還在講112年以後還在講112年目前\n244198\t270096\t我再問他 要花多少的時間他會輸定不來 補定不知道你整個制度是在規約什麼你沒辦法回答得出來我們一直都有規約在討論而且我們親自主持啦那112年以前的 到底要追溯到多久不是追溯到多久 是多久 你要準備多久才能夠讓我們可以完整的查詢你會補充嗎\n275514\t300652\t跟委員報告 事實上我們前段的做法是你昨天為什麼都不來 都要靠你靠我演對外發言也是都靠你 是怎麼樣呃 劉市長一直有在處理這個事情我現在看到媒體上發言也不是他 已經很多次了都不是他 到立法院也不來昨天有來啦 昨天公聽會有來啦昨天公聽會有來 今天有立委要質詢的就不來昨天沒有立委質詢他的就來啦\n303243\t327956\t哎呀 不要這樣子護航啦博電你能耐就好了 你叫很多醫事團體都出來跟你聲援繼續留任啊 連建築師公會都出來聲援啦建築師公會都出來聲援啦 叫一個書長來 叫不來喔好啦 我覺得現在事情又很多 我跟你 台北廖姓郎一 另外一個姓平案件喔 他\n329216\t347900\t我們主張不應該只有局限於對病人也應該包含職場教學之便的這個範圍台北廖姓郎醫在今年有一個廖姓郎醫對護理師性騷擾114年判刑定讞請問他會不會被揭露\n349785\t367096\t會不會 今年剛定業不會對病 跟委員報告目前在資訊專區所揭露的不管是對病人對住院醫師還有對其他團隊的成員只要有犯這樣的罪都會把他做揭露\n367296\t380042\t你們的說明裡面沒有喔你們現在只有侷限在對病人喔對於同事對於職場教學之便的範圍的沒有納入規範喔你不是在這裡生氣嗎你們的內容你們揭露的範圍不在裡面喔好我想鮑偉我想那個內容的充實以及那個掌握度我想我們會一直在加強\n396926\t400748\t柏中你現在在說什麼 我都聽不懂 還有呢我再講幾個 再講四個不會被揭露的已經懲處決議或調查已經確認了 但沒有進入司法程序第一個 新北的陳姓郎一 109年利用植物之變在整間幼島變幻發生關係事後還改姓名\n421799\t443280\t111年遭懲戒現在跨縣市職業還擔任醫院裡的主管職他不會被揭露啊因為沒有當事人沒有告他沒有判沒有刑事訴訟啊這也不會被揭露跨縣市還擔任主管職你覺得這個要讓大家知道嗎\n450618\t472058\t下一階段就是有懲戒被懲戒處分的資料我們也會做好來下一階段是什麼時候我現在就是要聽你下一階段沒有啦我現在不要聽你不要轉移焦點副司長說下一個階段你們連懲戒都要可以被查詢那下一個階段是多久以後你來告訴我\n474434\t481600\t不可以在這裡騙立委啊當初立委很好分立委都亂說很好騙下一階段是多久\n484096\t509337\t報告委員 因為我們網路已經建立了嘛那個的確是突破性啦 這個請委員要肯定一下什麼突破性 我給你1月2月在野黨提案我們一直諮詢 我已經諮詢這個第4次了第4次啦我們也跟司法院 有聯繫司法院也因為都一直沒有給我們回應所以我們只好用 有一點用人工方式一直在蒐集你們\n511919\t528434\t我們懲戒紀錄是在地方政府就有的懲戒紀錄跟司法院無關這是行政調查 行政懲戒懲戒紀錄要在地方 它每個格式或者任務都不太一樣格式不一樣 那我問你 我要叫你立即馬上嗎已經諮詢了三個月 四個月 五個月了你到底要花多久的時間 你就告訴我我們不要一拖再拖又拖\n537802\t546447\t我跟大家報告 還是要報告一下現況嘛 現況就是各個地方 現在這種 他們要給一個標準的格式你不要用技術面來講 我都不愛聽 我今天問你你認為要多久的時間 你說要一年就一年 半年就半年你告訴我一個答案 告訴全國的人民\n562065\t578705\t要多久我們醫事師認得他的在技術方面我要是能夠隨時公佈我明天也公佈也沒關係沒關係啦 我問你愛老公 我有你時間啦\n580468\t604815\t但是我要看那個實際上他們在沒有啦 你跟我說要多久啦意思是認為半年內可以來完成半年內你來告訴我有懲戒紀錄的也會被揭露也可以查詢出來那改了名字的還有跨縣市職業的那一些你們原來醫事系統查詢的會不會改善要多久時間改善我已經質詢到四本了\n606516\t620852\t因為他改名字以後是不是我們能夠找到這個我就不敢講但是不管他跨縣市他還是留有紀錄啊那些紀錄就會上去啦你們的醫事查詢系統查不到啦我現在是在說你們的醫事查詢系統\n621513\t625656\t我講資訊在四邊 你現在都聽不懂我問你 高雄曾姓郎一 趁診療機會取得變換聯絡資訊進行性騷擾然後114年遭懲戒停業兩個月 現在還在職業桃園高姓郎一 110年診療時藉著甲狀腺問題影響性荷爾蒙為由對變換進行內診還趁機性侵強吻\n648189\t661655\t直到護理師進來才停止112年這麼嚴重當時沒有進行刑事訴訟但112年遭懲戒到目前沒有定業有訴訟但沒有定業還在職業當中\n663556\t678722\t第四個台中陳姓郎一113到144年之間多次假借看診名義 習胸摸腿他們地方政府認定為性騷擾成立但是還沒有懲戒記錄\n680219\t704004\t我現在說的是什麼你們現行的揭露的機制的漏洞112年以前的目前還查不到只有懲處記錄的沒有辦法查得到調查台中市政府調查確認了也沒有公佈案件尚未定業的都可能因為系統限制而不被揭露而你們說還要再準備半年我很擔心你半年之後\n705140\t726576\t還是沒有辦法做好但是這些案子並不會沒有揭露而不存在這種案件通常會牽涉到權勢的壓力還有心理的創傷很多甚至我講了他沒有辦法進入訴訟程序因為很多不敢講嘛然後加上醫生換了名字的跨縣市職業的\n728072\t740803\t你的醫事查詢系統根本就查不出來你公告在你的人醫平台但人醫平台在改名字了他換的地方職業了在你的醫事查詢系統\n741923\t762137\t差不出來 你沒有整合所以你讓一般病患要辨識狼醫他的困難度很高反而變成了不良醫師的保護傘因為你公告狼醫叫陳某某你到醫師查詢系統 又改名字了\n763198\t773515\t所以我真的跟你說第四遍第五遍我不知道要說幾遍判決不是唯一認定違反醫療倫理的標準你們這樣子你們\n776087\t794624\t你們目前的做委員 其實是真的大家需要委員我們你對醫事專業團體 不是行政人員調查的是醫事專業團體 他們所做的這個地方政府做的調查醫事團體做的決策和決議\n796465\t815682\t案例調查跟他們的醫治團體專業你們信任度不足嗎違反醫療倫理的也不是只限於性平案件倒刷健保卡 僱用密醫使用非法的療法等等都嚴重的破壞醫病的信任這一些難道我們病患沒有知情權嗎\n817293\t846493\t所以我們在這裡再一次呼籲揭露所有的判決書和懲戒紀錄也不限於性平案件和時間範圍而且你再講剛剛講了六個月六個月要確保我們下次查詢資訊可追溯可查驗還有第三個你的醫師查詢平台跟你的狼醫公告平台改名了跨縣市人你不整合在一起\n847634\t854983\t現在又逍遙法外 你的查詢系統又變成狼醫的護身符這樣要怎麼做\n856755\t876808\t委員所執行的我們一定都會去重視跟改善請放心那個我們剛剛所提的你的質疑我們一定都會去不是啦我不要聽到你重視跟改善那第二個就是說我們關於說是不是在調查期間能夠停止這個我們在8月下旬我有講到調查期間停職嗎會我有講到這句話嗎\n877648\t883733\t沒有就是說我是說我們在做一些可能過去大家我沒有講到這個欸我告訴你就舉了法務部的律師查詢系統那麼簡單你根本要跟整合你的醫事查詢系統跟你的人醫整個平台整合在一起像法務部的律師查詢系統\n903610\t929063\t查詢出來他的懲戒紀錄都有他現在職業狀態他的地址你再加上一個改名他的職業縣市在桃園有職業在新北有職業這樣子會很難嗎為什麼人家法務部做得到你做不到法務院其實都查得到但是有現在全部都查不到你不要胡說八道我的意思就是說人眼都查得到啦\n930123\t944071\t你們衛福部查得到病患人民永遠查不到啦現在都還查不到啦是查得到現在比較多拒絕要暴露他身份的就是護理人員比較多啦我們有一個我不是跟你講了你的類別可以強度不用一樣嘛\n948993\t965964\t你對醫師所要揭露的資訊跟對一個護理師 復健師 驗光師所要揭露的 你去分等級嘛我知道 我知道這這麼簡單的事情 我就不知道你們到底是怎麼想這就沒辦法做了兩者都沒辦法做了我不知道你醫事師的領略是要做什麼我今天來的計算都還沒開始啦老實說\n977403\t987986\t我們針對進口藥品原料的課稅對我國產業造成的影響 老實說一個字都還沒諮詢這件事這麼簡單 我已經說第四遍了啦 第五遍了啦好 我們會繼續把它做得更好半年內\n997250\t1014222\t我所質詢的全部都會得到答案嗎不過我還是跟委員報告一下醫師可以提供的資料跟律師其實是不太一樣因為他們的工作性質真的就不太一樣你不要去說這些啦那另外就是說現在要叫你揭露這個人有沒有懲戒紀錄有沒有判刑紀錄他的職業他是在哪個地方職業哪一個縣市職業\n1024309\t1028118\t這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼\n1034392\t1043377\t但是我們要照規定來做啊都尾不合規定啊我問你啊 都尾不合規定啊我剛才說的 都尾不合規定啊要我用個資保護法來說嗎我已經這三遍了 你在上面說沒問題啊現在又開始了 又來揮啊 又來擄 又來翻啊反反覆覆 亦反亦復啊小人心啊亦漲亦退啊 山西水俗語 俗語\n1066866\t1089510\t反反覆覆啦 不能這樣啦 這麼簡單的事情還是要多補充就做得出來 多輸充就做得出來補充 你是要輸充娃娃的 就有人會做出來了啦啊啦 沒辦法 沒了補充娃娃的 沒地方就做出來了啦我不知道你的困難是在哪裡 你的困難到底是在哪裡啊\n1091963\t1120547\t法律工具有限法律有侷限那律師的工具為什麼沒有受限好 我想這個部分那個你要多用一點心啦 我跟你講喔已經第四遍第五遍 再講也不好好啦 今天的主題下一次再諮詢喔因為我再講下去 我想我要避免 他也要避免啦好啦好啦 我們會繼續努力喔謝謝林淑恩委員\n","txt":"好謝謝主席是不是來請我們邱部長委員好部長千戶萬患使出來你們的所謂的狼醫的平台的建制本來是要為了這個強化民眾的知情權和保障病人的這個安全結果千戶萬患使出來面紗一揭開\n這就是在對立法院虛擬委員有做到好啊 做高台的唐瑟敷衍我們這些立委唐瑟敷衍我們這個社會那先行的制度啊他只揭露目前為止只揭露112年以後性平判決確定的案件這樣的標準真的能夠回應社會大眾的擔憂嗎\n我要再講你們醫事司的司長強硬的表示他只這樣子做你看都不用來 現在出名的都是副司長發言現在是醫事司都沒有司長啊是不是還是他長大都不用出來 密碟保證後面還是聽說密碟司署長後面署長你謙遜的啊 你謙遜的啊 很大的\n我現在舉幾個例子你們認為嚴不嚴重但我要再問你們這幾個案子都在現行的制度裡面平台裡面都不會被揭露第一個案子喔\n你知道他為什麼不會被揭露嗎\n跟委員做報告 他不是不會被揭露是我們有一部分的資料還是要跟司法院去揭所以是資料會再加上 我要叫你保定回答判決確定了 109年就判決確定了\n我們不好意思 報告委員齁我們第一個階段先把112年性平三法開始實行以後的的一個啊112年以前要多久要多久對啊 您現在先公佈112年以後的判決啊以前的要多久 要花多久時間這些東西這麼困難嗎要多久\n回答不出來 我們現在現階段先我知道啊 如果說大家的意見要所以嘛 我的講不會被揭露 因為問你112年以前的要多久會被揭露 你回答不出來你說我們不是不做 是未來要做 那未來是要多久的時間以後才會做你回答不出來 啊這不是在給我們爭笑的嗎\n我們總是要有一個一個開始的時程對啊那我問你的期程規劃112年以前的要花多久時間啊我們目前當然是先規劃112年剩平 主席我告訴你這時間暫停\n他的答非所問 112年以前判決的他的規劃的期程要花多久時間他會讓大家都可以查詢的出來他還在講112年以後還在講112年目前\n我再問他 要花多少的時間他會輸定不來 補定不知道你整個制度是在規約什麼你沒辦法回答得出來我們一直都有規約在討論而且我們親自主持啦那112年以前的 到底要追溯到多久不是追溯到多久 是多久 你要準備多久才能夠讓我們可以完整的查詢你會補充嗎\n跟委員報告 事實上我們前段的做法是你昨天為什麼都不來 都要靠你靠我演對外發言也是都靠你 是怎麼樣呃 劉市長一直有在處理這個事情我現在看到媒體上發言也不是他 已經很多次了都不是他 到立法院也不來昨天有來啦 昨天公聽會有來啦昨天公聽會有來 今天有立委要質詢的就不來昨天沒有立委質詢他的就來啦\n哎呀 不要這樣子護航啦博電你能耐就好了 你叫很多醫事團體都出來跟你聲援繼續留任啊 連建築師公會都出來聲援啦建築師公會都出來聲援啦 叫一個書長來 叫不來喔好啦 我覺得現在事情又很多 我跟你 台北廖姓郎一 另外一個姓平案件喔 他\n我們主張不應該只有局限於對病人也應該包含職場教學之便的這個範圍台北廖姓郎醫在今年有一個廖姓郎醫對護理師性騷擾114年判刑定讞請問他會不會被揭露\n會不會 今年剛定業不會對病 跟委員報告目前在資訊專區所揭露的不管是對病人對住院醫師還有對其他團隊的成員只要有犯這樣的罪都會把他做揭露\n你們的說明裡面沒有喔你們現在只有侷限在對病人喔對於同事對於職場教學之便的範圍的沒有納入規範喔你不是在這裡生氣嗎你們的內容你們揭露的範圍不在裡面喔好我想鮑偉我想那個內容的充實以及那個掌握度我想我們會一直在加強\n柏中你現在在說什麼 我都聽不懂 還有呢我再講幾個 再講四個不會被揭露的已經懲處決議或調查已經確認了 但沒有進入司法程序第一個 新北的陳姓郎一 109年利用植物之變在整間幼島變幻發生關係事後還改姓名\n111年遭懲戒現在跨縣市職業還擔任醫院裡的主管職他不會被揭露啊因為沒有當事人沒有告他沒有判沒有刑事訴訟啊這也不會被揭露跨縣市還擔任主管職你覺得這個要讓大家知道嗎\n下一階段就是有懲戒被懲戒處分的資料我們也會做好來下一階段是什麼時候我現在就是要聽你下一階段沒有啦我現在不要聽你不要轉移焦點副司長說下一個階段你們連懲戒都要可以被查詢那下一個階段是多久以後你來告訴我\n不可以在這裡騙立委啊當初立委很好分立委都亂說很好騙下一階段是多久\n報告委員 因為我們網路已經建立了嘛那個的確是突破性啦 這個請委員要肯定一下什麼突破性 我給你1月2月在野黨提案我們一直諮詢 我已經諮詢這個第4次了第4次啦我們也跟司法院 有聯繫司法院也因為都一直沒有給我們回應所以我們只好用 有一點用人工方式一直在蒐集你們\n我們懲戒紀錄是在地方政府就有的懲戒紀錄跟司法院無關這是行政調查 行政懲戒懲戒紀錄要在地方 它每個格式或者任務都不太一樣格式不一樣 那我問你 我要叫你立即馬上嗎已經諮詢了三個月 四個月 五個月了你到底要花多久的時間 你就告訴我我們不要一拖再拖又拖\n我跟大家報告 還是要報告一下現況嘛 現況就是各個地方 現在這種 他們要給一個標準的格式你不要用技術面來講 我都不愛聽 我今天問你你認為要多久的時間 你說要一年就一年 半年就半年你告訴我一個答案 告訴全國的人民\n要多久我們醫事師認得他的在技術方面我要是能夠隨時公佈我明天也公佈也沒關係沒關係啦 我問你愛老公 我有你時間啦\n但是我要看那個實際上他們在沒有啦 你跟我說要多久啦意思是認為半年內可以來完成半年內你來告訴我有懲戒紀錄的也會被揭露也可以查詢出來那改了名字的還有跨縣市職業的那一些你們原來醫事系統查詢的會不會改善要多久時間改善我已經質詢到四本了\n因為他改名字以後是不是我們能夠找到這個我就不敢講但是不管他跨縣市他還是留有紀錄啊那些紀錄就會上去啦你們的醫事查詢系統查不到啦我現在是在說你們的醫事查詢系統\n我講資訊在四邊 你現在都聽不懂我問你 高雄曾姓郎一 趁診療機會取得變換聯絡資訊進行性騷擾然後114年遭懲戒停業兩個月 現在還在職業桃園高姓郎一 110年診療時藉著甲狀腺問題影響性荷爾蒙為由對變換進行內診還趁機性侵強吻\n直到護理師進來才停止112年這麼嚴重當時沒有進行刑事訴訟但112年遭懲戒到目前沒有定業有訴訟但沒有定業還在職業當中\n第四個台中陳姓郎一113到144年之間多次假借看診名義 習胸摸腿他們地方政府認定為性騷擾成立但是還沒有懲戒記錄\n我現在說的是什麼你們現行的揭露的機制的漏洞112年以前的目前還查不到只有懲處記錄的沒有辦法查得到調查台中市政府調查確認了也沒有公佈案件尚未定業的都可能因為系統限制而不被揭露而你們說還要再準備半年我很擔心你半年之後\n還是沒有辦法做好但是這些案子並不會沒有揭露而不存在這種案件通常會牽涉到權勢的壓力還有心理的創傷很多甚至我講了他沒有辦法進入訴訟程序因為很多不敢講嘛然後加上醫生換了名字的跨縣市職業的\n你的醫事查詢系統根本就查不出來你公告在你的人醫平台但人醫平台在改名字了他換的地方職業了在你的醫事查詢系統\n差不出來 你沒有整合所以你讓一般病患要辨識狼醫他的困難度很高反而變成了不良醫師的保護傘因為你公告狼醫叫陳某某你到醫師查詢系統 又改名字了\n所以我真的跟你說第四遍第五遍我不知道要說幾遍判決不是唯一認定違反醫療倫理的標準你們這樣子你們\n你們目前的做委員 其實是真的大家需要委員我們你對醫事專業團體 不是行政人員調查的是醫事專業團體 他們所做的這個地方政府做的調查醫事團體做的決策和決議\n案例調查跟他們的醫治團體專業你們信任度不足嗎違反醫療倫理的也不是只限於性平案件倒刷健保卡 僱用密醫使用非法的療法等等都嚴重的破壞醫病的信任這一些難道我們病患沒有知情權嗎\n所以我們在這裡再一次呼籲揭露所有的判決書和懲戒紀錄也不限於性平案件和時間範圍而且你再講剛剛講了六個月六個月要確保我們下次查詢資訊可追溯可查驗還有第三個你的醫師查詢平台跟你的狼醫公告平台改名了跨縣市人你不整合在一起\n現在又逍遙法外 你的查詢系統又變成狼醫的護身符這樣要怎麼做\n委員所執行的我們一定都會去重視跟改善請放心那個我們剛剛所提的你的質疑我們一定都會去不是啦我不要聽到你重視跟改善那第二個就是說我們關於說是不是在調查期間能夠停止這個我們在8月下旬我有講到調查期間停職嗎會我有講到這句話嗎\n沒有就是說我是說我們在做一些可能過去大家我沒有講到這個欸我告訴你就舉了法務部的律師查詢系統那麼簡單你根本要跟整合你的醫事查詢系統跟你的人醫整個平台整合在一起像法務部的律師查詢系統\n查詢出來他的懲戒紀錄都有他現在職業狀態他的地址你再加上一個改名他的職業縣市在桃園有職業在新北有職業這樣子會很難嗎為什麼人家法務部做得到你做不到法務院其實都查得到但是有現在全部都查不到你不要胡說八道我的意思就是說人眼都查得到啦\n你們衛福部查得到病患人民永遠查不到啦現在都還查不到啦是查得到現在比較多拒絕要暴露他身份的就是護理人員比較多啦我們有一個我不是跟你講了你的類別可以強度不用一樣嘛\n你對醫師所要揭露的資訊跟對一個護理師 復健師 驗光師所要揭露的 你去分等級嘛我知道 我知道這這麼簡單的事情 我就不知道你們到底是怎麼想這就沒辦法做了兩者都沒辦法做了我不知道你醫事師的領略是要做什麼我今天來的計算都還沒開始啦老實說\n我們針對進口藥品原料的課稅對我國產業造成的影響 老實說一個字都還沒諮詢這件事這麼簡單 我已經說第四遍了啦 第五遍了啦好 我們會繼續把它做得更好半年內\n我所質詢的全部都會得到答案嗎不過我還是跟委員報告一下醫師可以提供的資料跟律師其實是不太一樣因為他們的工作性質真的就不太一樣你不要去說這些啦那另外就是說現在要叫你揭露這個人有沒有懲戒紀錄有沒有判刑紀錄他的職業他是在哪個地方職業哪一個縣市職業\n這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼\n但是我們要照規定來做啊都尾不合規定啊我問你啊 都尾不合規定啊我剛才說的 都尾不合規定啊要我用個資保護法來說嗎我已經這三遍了 你在上面說沒問題啊現在又開始了 又來揮啊 又來擄 又來翻啊反反覆覆 亦反亦復啊小人心啊亦漲亦退啊 山西水俗語 俗語\n反反覆覆啦 不能這樣啦 這麼簡單的事情還是要多補充就做得出來 多輸充就做得出來補充 你是要輸充娃娃的 就有人會做出來了啦啊啦 沒辦法 沒了補充娃娃的 沒地方就做出來了啦我不知道你的困難是在哪裡 你的困難到底是在哪裡啊\n法律工具有限法律有侷限那律師的工具為什麼沒有受限好 我想這個部分那個你要多用一點心啦 我跟你講喔已經第四遍第五遍 再講也不好好啦 今天的主題下一次再諮詢喔因為我再講下去 我想我要避免 他也要避免啦好啦好啦 我們會繼續努力喔謝謝林淑恩委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.465 --> 00:08.986\n好謝謝主席是不是來請我們邱部長委員好部長千戶萬患使出來你們的所謂的狼醫的平台的建制本來是要為了這個強化民眾的知情權和保障病人的這個安全結果千戶萬患使出來面紗一揭開\n\n00:33.951 --> 00:56.439\n這就是在對立法院虛擬委員有做到好啊做高台的唐瑟敷衍我們這些立委唐瑟敷衍我們這個社會那先行的制度啊他只揭露目前為止只揭露112年以後性平判決確定的案件這樣的標準真的能夠回應社會大眾的擔憂嗎\n\n00:58.320 --> 01:07.523\n我要再講你們醫事司的司長強硬的表示他只這樣子做你看都不用來現在出名的都是副司長發言現在是醫事司都沒有司長啊是不是還是他長大都不用出來密碟保證後面還是聽說密碟司署長後面署長你謙遜的啊你謙遜的啊很大的\n\n01:23.267 --> 01:26.548\n我現在舉幾個例子你們認為嚴不嚴重但我要再問你們這幾個案子都在現行的制度裡面平台裡面都不會被揭露第一個案子喔\n\n01:43.336 --> 01:44.297\n你知道他為什麼不會被揭露嗎\n\n02:15.030 --> 02:28.136\n跟委員做報告他不是不會被揭露是我們有一部分的資料還是要跟司法院去揭所以是資料會再加上我要叫你保定回答判決確定了109年就判決確定了\n\n02:32.793 --> 02:49.345\n我們不好意思報告委員齁我們第一個階段先把112年性平三法開始實行以後的的一個啊112年以前要多久要多久對啊您現在先公佈112年以後的判決啊以前的要多久要花多久時間這些東西這麼困難嗎要多久\n\n03:04.244 --> 03:26.912\n回答不出來我們現在現階段先我知道啊如果說大家的意見要所以嘛我的講不會被揭露因為問你112年以前的要多久會被揭露你回答不出來你說我們不是不做是未來要做那未來是要多久的時間以後才會做你回答不出來啊這不是在給我們爭笑的嗎\n\n03:30.145 --> 03:45.945\n我們總是要有一個一個開始的時程對啊那我問你的期程規劃112年以前的要花多久時間啊我們目前當然是先規劃112年剩平主席我告訴你這時間暫停\n\n03:47.864 --> 04:00.062\n他的答非所問112年以前判決的他的規劃的期程要花多久時間他會讓大家都可以查詢的出來他還在講112年以後還在講112年目前\n\n04:04.198 --> 04:30.096\n我再問他要花多少的時間他會輸定不來補定不知道你整個制度是在規約什麼你沒辦法回答得出來我們一直都有規約在討論而且我們親自主持啦那112年以前的到底要追溯到多久不是追溯到多久是多久你要準備多久才能夠讓我們可以完整的查詢你會補充嗎\n\n04:35.514 --> 05:00.652\n跟委員報告事實上我們前段的做法是你昨天為什麼都不來都要靠你靠我演對外發言也是都靠你是怎麼樣呃劉市長一直有在處理這個事情我現在看到媒體上發言也不是他已經很多次了都不是他到立法院也不來昨天有來啦昨天公聽會有來啦昨天公聽會有來今天有立委要質詢的就不來昨天沒有立委質詢他的就來啦\n\n05:03.243 --> 05:27.956\n哎呀不要這樣子護航啦博電你能耐就好了你叫很多醫事團體都出來跟你聲援繼續留任啊連建築師公會都出來聲援啦建築師公會都出來聲援啦叫一個書長來叫不來喔好啦我覺得現在事情又很多我跟你台北廖姓郎一另外一個姓平案件喔他\n\n05:29.216 --> 05:47.900\n我們主張不應該只有局限於對病人也應該包含職場教學之便的這個範圍台北廖姓郎醫在今年有一個廖姓郎醫對護理師性騷擾114年判刑定讞請問他會不會被揭露\n\n05:49.785 --> 06:07.096\n會不會今年剛定業不會對病跟委員報告目前在資訊專區所揭露的不管是對病人對住院醫師還有對其他團隊的成員只要有犯這樣的罪都會把他做揭露\n\n06:07.296 --> 06:20.042\n你們的說明裡面沒有喔你們現在只有侷限在對病人喔對於同事對於職場教學之便的範圍的沒有納入規範喔你不是在這裡生氣嗎你們的內容你們揭露的範圍不在裡面喔好我想鮑偉我想那個內容的充實以及那個掌握度我想我們會一直在加強\n\n06:36.926 --> 06:40.748\n柏中你現在在說什麼我都聽不懂還有呢我再講幾個再講四個不會被揭露的已經懲處決議或調查已經確認了但沒有進入司法程序第一個新北的陳姓郎一109年利用植物之變在整間幼島變幻發生關係事後還改姓名\n\n07:01.799 --> 07:23.280\n111年遭懲戒現在跨縣市職業還擔任醫院裡的主管職他不會被揭露啊因為沒有當事人沒有告他沒有判沒有刑事訴訟啊這也不會被揭露跨縣市還擔任主管職你覺得這個要讓大家知道嗎\n\n07:30.618 --> 07:52.058\n下一階段就是有懲戒被懲戒處分的資料我們也會做好來下一階段是什麼時候我現在就是要聽你下一階段沒有啦我現在不要聽你不要轉移焦點副司長說下一個階段你們連懲戒都要可以被查詢那下一個階段是多久以後你來告訴我\n\n07:54.434 --> 08:01.600\n不可以在這裡騙立委啊當初立委很好分立委都亂說很好騙下一階段是多久\n\n08:04.096 --> 08:29.337\n報告委員因為我們網路已經建立了嘛那個的確是突破性啦這個請委員要肯定一下什麼突破性我給你1月2月在野黨提案我們一直諮詢我已經諮詢這個第4次了第4次啦我們也跟司法院有聯繫司法院也因為都一直沒有給我們回應所以我們只好用有一點用人工方式一直在蒐集你們\n\n08:31.919 --> 08:48.434\n我們懲戒紀錄是在地方政府就有的懲戒紀錄跟司法院無關這是行政調查行政懲戒懲戒紀錄要在地方它每個格式或者任務都不太一樣格式不一樣那我問你我要叫你立即馬上嗎已經諮詢了三個月四個月五個月了你到底要花多久的時間你就告訴我我們不要一拖再拖又拖\n\n08:57.802 --> 09:06.447\n我跟大家報告還是要報告一下現況嘛現況就是各個地方現在這種他們要給一個標準的格式你不要用技術面來講我都不愛聽我今天問你你認為要多久的時間你說要一年就一年半年就半年你告訴我一個答案告訴全國的人民\n\n09:22.065 --> 09:38.705\n要多久我們醫事師認得他的在技術方面我要是能夠隨時公佈我明天也公佈也沒關係沒關係啦我問你愛老公我有你時間啦\n\n09:40.468 --> 10:04.815\n但是我要看那個實際上他們在沒有啦你跟我說要多久啦意思是認為半年內可以來完成半年內你來告訴我有懲戒紀錄的也會被揭露也可以查詢出來那改了名字的還有跨縣市職業的那一些你們原來醫事系統查詢的會不會改善要多久時間改善我已經質詢到四本了\n\n10:06.516 --> 10:20.852\n因為他改名字以後是不是我們能夠找到這個我就不敢講但是不管他跨縣市他還是留有紀錄啊那些紀錄就會上去啦你們的醫事查詢系統查不到啦我現在是在說你們的醫事查詢系統\n\n10:21.513 --> 10:25.656\n我講資訊在四邊你現在都聽不懂我問你高雄曾姓郎一趁診療機會取得變換聯絡資訊進行性騷擾然後114年遭懲戒停業兩個月現在還在職業桃園高姓郎一110年診療時藉著甲狀腺問題影響性荷爾蒙為由對變換進行內診還趁機性侵強吻\n\n10:48.189 --> 11:01.655\n直到護理師進來才停止112年這麼嚴重當時沒有進行刑事訴訟但112年遭懲戒到目前沒有定業有訴訟但沒有定業還在職業當中\n\n11:03.556 --> 11:18.722\n第四個台中陳姓郎一113到144年之間多次假借看診名義習胸摸腿他們地方政府認定為性騷擾成立但是還沒有懲戒記錄\n\n11:20.219 --> 11:44.004\n我現在說的是什麼你們現行的揭露的機制的漏洞112年以前的目前還查不到只有懲處記錄的沒有辦法查得到調查台中市政府調查確認了也沒有公佈案件尚未定業的都可能因為系統限制而不被揭露而你們說還要再準備半年我很擔心你半年之後\n\n11:45.140 --> 12:06.576\n還是沒有辦法做好但是這些案子並不會沒有揭露而不存在這種案件通常會牽涉到權勢的壓力還有心理的創傷很多甚至我講了他沒有辦法進入訴訟程序因為很多不敢講嘛然後加上醫生換了名字的跨縣市職業的\n\n12:08.072 --> 12:20.803\n你的醫事查詢系統根本就查不出來你公告在你的人醫平台但人醫平台在改名字了他換的地方職業了在你的醫事查詢系統\n\n12:21.923 --> 12:42.137\n差不出來你沒有整合所以你讓一般病患要辨識狼醫他的困難度很高反而變成了不良醫師的保護傘因為你公告狼醫叫陳某某你到醫師查詢系統又改名字了\n\n12:43.198 --> 12:53.515\n所以我真的跟你說第四遍第五遍我不知道要說幾遍判決不是唯一認定違反醫療倫理的標準你們這樣子你們\n\n12:56.087 --> 13:14.624\n你們目前的做委員其實是真的大家需要委員我們你對醫事專業團體不是行政人員調查的是醫事專業團體他們所做的這個地方政府做的調查醫事團體做的決策和決議\n\n13:16.465 --> 13:35.682\n案例調查跟他們的醫治團體專業你們信任度不足嗎違反醫療倫理的也不是只限於性平案件倒刷健保卡僱用密醫使用非法的療法等等都嚴重的破壞醫病的信任這一些難道我們病患沒有知情權嗎\n\n13:37.293 --> 14:06.493\n所以我們在這裡再一次呼籲揭露所有的判決書和懲戒紀錄也不限於性平案件和時間範圍而且你再講剛剛講了六個月六個月要確保我們下次查詢資訊可追溯可查驗還有第三個你的醫師查詢平台跟你的狼醫公告平台改名了跨縣市人你不整合在一起\n\n14:07.634 --> 14:14.983\n現在又逍遙法外你的查詢系統又變成狼醫的護身符這樣要怎麼做\n\n14:16.755 --> 14:36.808\n委員所執行的我們一定都會去重視跟改善請放心那個我們剛剛所提的你的質疑我們一定都會去不是啦我不要聽到你重視跟改善那第二個就是說我們關於說是不是在調查期間能夠停止這個我們在8月下旬我有講到調查期間停職嗎會我有講到這句話嗎\n\n14:37.648 --> 14:43.733\n沒有就是說我是說我們在做一些可能過去大家我沒有講到這個欸我告訴你就舉了法務部的律師查詢系統那麼簡單你根本要跟整合你的醫事查詢系統跟你的人醫整個平台整合在一起像法務部的律師查詢系統\n\n15:03.610 --> 15:29.063\n查詢出來他的懲戒紀錄都有他現在職業狀態他的地址你再加上一個改名他的職業縣市在桃園有職業在新北有職業這樣子會很難嗎為什麼人家法務部做得到你做不到法務院其實都查得到但是有現在全部都查不到你不要胡說八道我的意思就是說人眼都查得到啦\n\n15:30.123 --> 15:44.071\n你們衛福部查得到病患人民永遠查不到啦現在都還查不到啦是查得到現在比較多拒絕要暴露他身份的就是護理人員比較多啦我們有一個我不是跟你講了你的類別可以強度不用一樣嘛\n\n15:48.993 --> 16:05.964\n你對醫師所要揭露的資訊跟對一個護理師復健師驗光師所要揭露的你去分等級嘛我知道我知道這這麼簡單的事情我就不知道你們到底是怎麼想這就沒辦法做了兩者都沒辦法做了我不知道你醫事師的領略是要做什麼我今天來的計算都還沒開始啦老實說\n\n16:17.403 --> 16:27.986\n我們針對進口藥品原料的課稅對我國產業造成的影響老實說一個字都還沒諮詢這件事這麼簡單我已經說第四遍了啦第五遍了啦好我們會繼續把它做得更好半年內\n\n16:37.250 --> 16:54.222\n我所質詢的全部都會得到答案嗎不過我還是跟委員報告一下醫師可以提供的資料跟律師其實是不太一樣因為他們的工作性質真的就不太一樣你不要去說這些啦那另外就是說現在要叫你揭露這個人有沒有懲戒紀錄有沒有判刑紀錄他的職業他是在哪個地方職業哪一個縣市職業\n\n17:04.309 --> 17:08.118\n這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼這是在說什麼\n\n17:14.392 --> 17:23.377\n但是我們要照規定來做啊都尾不合規定啊我問你啊都尾不合規定啊我剛才說的都尾不合規定啊要我用個資保護法來說嗎我已經這三遍了你在上面說沒問題啊現在又開始了又來揮啊又來擄又來翻啊反反覆覆亦反亦復啊小人心啊亦漲亦退啊山西水俗語俗語\n\n17:46.866 --> 18:09.510\n反反覆覆啦不能這樣啦這麼簡單的事情還是要多補充就做得出來多輸充就做得出來補充你是要輸充娃娃的就有人會做出來了啦啊啦沒辦法沒了補充娃娃的沒地方就做出來了啦我不知道你的困難是在哪裡你的困難到底是在哪裡啊\n\n18:11.963 --> 18:40.547\n法律工具有限法律有侷限那律師的工具為什麼沒有受限好我想這個部分那個你要多用一點心啦我跟你講喔已經第四遍第五遍再講也不好好啦今天的主題下一次再諮詢喔因為我再講下去我想我要避免他也要避免啦好啦好啦我們會繼續努力喔謝謝林淑恩委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.465,"end":8.986,"text":"好謝謝主席是不是來請我們邱部長委員好部長千戶萬患使出來你們的所謂的狼醫的平台的建制本來是要為了這個強化民眾的知情權和保障病人的這個安全結果千戶萬患使出來面紗一揭開"},{"start":33.951,"end":56.439,"text":"這就是在對立法院虛擬委員有做到好啊 做高台的唐瑟敷衍我們這些立委唐瑟敷衍我們這個社會那先行的制度啊他只揭露目前為止只揭露112年以後性平判決確定的案件這樣的標準真的能夠回應社會大眾的擔憂嗎"},{"start":58.32,"end":67.523,"text":"我要再講你們醫事司的司長強硬的表示他只這樣子做你看都不用來 現在出名的都是副司長發言現在是醫事司都沒有司長啊是不是還是他長大都不用出來 密碟保證後面還是聽說密碟司署長後面署長你謙遜的啊 你謙遜的啊 很大的"},{"start":83.267,"end":86.548,"text":"我現在舉幾個例子你們認為嚴不嚴重但我要再問你們這幾個案子都在現行的制度裡面平台裡面都不會被揭露第一個案子喔"},{"start":103.336,"end":104.297,"text":"你知道他為什麼不會被揭露嗎"},{"start":135.03,"end":148.136,"text":"跟委員做報告 他不是不會被揭露是我們有一部分的資料還是要跟司法院去揭所以是資料會再加上 我要叫你保定回答判決確定了 109年就判決確定了"},{"start":152.793,"end":169.345,"text":"我們不好意思 報告委員齁我們第一個階段先把112年性平三法開始實行以後的的一個啊112年以前要多久要多久對啊 您現在先公佈112年以後的判決啊以前的要多久 要花多久時間這些東西這麼困難嗎要多久"},{"start":184.244,"end":206.912,"text":"回答不出來 我們現在現階段先我知道啊 如果說大家的意見要所以嘛 我的講不會被揭露 因為問你112年以前的要多久會被揭露 你回答不出來你說我們不是不做 是未來要做 那未來是要多久的時間以後才會做你回答不出來 啊這不是在給我們爭笑的嗎"},{"start":210.145,"end":225.945,"text":"我們總是要有一個一個開始的時程對啊那我問你的期程規劃112年以前的要花多久時間啊我們目前當然是先規劃112年剩平 主席我告訴你這時間暫停"},{"start":227.864,"end":240.062,"text":"他的答非所問 112年以前判決的他的規劃的期程要花多久時間他會讓大家都可以查詢的出來他還在講112年以後還在講112年目前"},{"start":244.198,"end":270.096,"text":"我再問他 要花多少的時間他會輸定不來 補定不知道你整個制度是在規約什麼你沒辦法回答得出來我們一直都有規約在討論而且我們親自主持啦那112年以前的 到底要追溯到多久不是追溯到多久 是多久 你要準備多久才能夠讓我們可以完整的查詢你會補充嗎"},{"start":275.514,"end":300.652,"text":"跟委員報告 事實上我們前段的做法是你昨天為什麼都不來 都要靠你靠我演對外發言也是都靠你 是怎麼樣呃 劉市長一直有在處理這個事情我現在看到媒體上發言也不是他 已經很多次了都不是他 到立法院也不來昨天有來啦 昨天公聽會有來啦昨天公聽會有來 今天有立委要質詢的就不來昨天沒有立委質詢他的就來啦"},{"start":303.243,"end":327.956,"text":"哎呀 不要這樣子護航啦博電你能耐就好了 你叫很多醫事團體都出來跟你聲援繼續留任啊 連建築師公會都出來聲援啦建築師公會都出來聲援啦 叫一個書長來 叫不來喔好啦 我覺得現在事情又很多 我跟你 台北廖姓郎一 另外一個姓平案件喔 他"},{"start":329.216,"end":347.9,"text":"我們主張不應該只有局限於對病人也應該包含職場教學之便的這個範圍台北廖姓郎醫在今年有一個廖姓郎醫對護理師性騷擾114年判刑定讞請問他會不會被揭露"},{"start":349.785,"end":367.096,"text":"會不會 今年剛定業不會對病 跟委員報告目前在資訊專區所揭露的不管是對病人對住院醫師還有對其他團隊的成員只要有犯這樣的罪都會把他做揭露"},{"start":367.296,"end":380.042,"text":"你們的說明裡面沒有喔你們現在只有侷限在對病人喔對於同事對於職場教學之便的範圍的沒有納入規範喔你不是在這裡生氣嗎你們的內容你們揭露的範圍不在裡面喔好我想鮑偉我想那個內容的充實以及那個掌握度我想我們會一直在加強"},{"start":396.926,"end":400.748,"text":"柏中你現在在說什麼 我都聽不懂 還有呢我再講幾個 再講四個不會被揭露的已經懲處決議或調查已經確認了 但沒有進入司法程序第一個 新北的陳姓郎一 109年利用植物之變在整間幼島變幻發生關係事後還改姓名"},{"start":421.799,"end":443.28,"text":"111年遭懲戒現在跨縣市職業還擔任醫院裡的主管職他不會被揭露啊因為沒有當事人沒有告他沒有判沒有刑事訴訟啊這也不會被揭露跨縣市還擔任主管職你覺得這個要讓大家知道嗎"},{"start":450.618,"end":472.058,"text":"下一階段就是有懲戒被懲戒處分的資料我們也會做好來下一階段是什麼時候我現在就是要聽你下一階段沒有啦我現在不要聽你不要轉移焦點副司長說下一個階段你們連懲戒都要可以被查詢那下一個階段是多久以後你來告訴我"},{"start":474.434,"end":481.6,"text":"不可以在這裡騙立委啊當初立委很好分立委都亂說很好騙下一階段是多久"},{"start":484.096,"end":509.337,"text":"報告委員 因為我們網路已經建立了嘛那個的確是突破性啦 這個請委員要肯定一下什麼突破性 我給你1月2月在野黨提案我們一直諮詢 我已經諮詢這個第4次了第4次啦我們也跟司法院 有聯繫司法院也因為都一直沒有給我們回應所以我們只好用 有一點用人工方式一直在蒐集你們"},{"start":511.919,"end":528.434,"text":"我們懲戒紀錄是在地方政府就有的懲戒紀錄跟司法院無關這是行政調查 行政懲戒懲戒紀錄要在地方 它每個格式或者任務都不太一樣格式不一樣 那我問你 我要叫你立即馬上嗎已經諮詢了三個月 四個月 五個月了你到底要花多久的時間 你就告訴我我們不要一拖再拖又拖"},{"start":537.802,"end":546.447,"text":"我跟大家報告 還是要報告一下現況嘛 現況就是各個地方 現在這種 他們要給一個標準的格式你不要用技術面來講 我都不愛聽 我今天問你你認為要多久的時間 你說要一年就一年 半年就半年你告訴我一個答案 告訴全國的人民"},{"start":562.065,"end":578.705,"text":"要多久我們醫事師認得他的在技術方面我要是能夠隨時公佈我明天也公佈也沒關係沒關係啦 我問你愛老公 我有你時間啦"},{"start":580.468,"end":604.815,"text":"但是我要看那個實際上他們在沒有啦 你跟我說要多久啦意思是認為半年內可以來完成半年內你來告訴我有懲戒紀錄的也會被揭露也可以查詢出來那改了名字的還有跨縣市職業的那一些你們原來醫事系統查詢的會不會改善要多久時間改善我已經質詢到四本了"},{"start":606.516,"end":620.852,"text":"因為他改名字以後是不是我們能夠找到這個我就不敢講但是不管他跨縣市他還是留有紀錄啊那些紀錄就會上去啦你們的醫事查詢系統查不到啦我現在是在說你們的醫事查詢系統"},{"start":621.513,"end":625.656,"text":"我講資訊在四邊 你現在都聽不懂我問你 高雄曾姓郎一 趁診療機會取得變換聯絡資訊進行性騷擾然後114年遭懲戒停業兩個月 現在還在職業桃園高姓郎一 110年診療時藉著甲狀腺問題影響性荷爾蒙為由對變換進行內診還趁機性侵強吻"},{"start":648.189,"end":661.655,"text":"直到護理師進來才停止112年這麼嚴重當時沒有進行刑事訴訟但112年遭懲戒到目前沒有定業有訴訟但沒有定業還在職業當中"},{"start":663.556,"end":678.722,"text":"第四個台中陳姓郎一113到144年之間多次假借看診名義 習胸摸腿他們地方政府認定為性騷擾成立但是還沒有懲戒記錄"},{"start":680.219,"end":704.004,"text":"我現在說的是什麼你們現行的揭露的機制的漏洞112年以前的目前還查不到只有懲處記錄的沒有辦法查得到調查台中市政府調查確認了也沒有公佈案件尚未定業的都可能因為系統限制而不被揭露而你們說還要再準備半年我很擔心你半年之後"},{"start":705.14,"end":726.576,"text":"還是沒有辦法做好但是這些案子並不會沒有揭露而不存在這種案件通常會牽涉到權勢的壓力還有心理的創傷很多甚至我講了他沒有辦法進入訴訟程序因為很多不敢講嘛然後加上醫生換了名字的跨縣市職業的"},{"start":728.072,"end":740.803,"text":"你的醫事查詢系統根本就查不出來你公告在你的人醫平台但人醫平台在改名字了他換的地方職業了在你的醫事查詢系統"},{"start":741.923,"end":762.137,"text":"差不出來 你沒有整合所以你讓一般病患要辨識狼醫他的困難度很高反而變成了不良醫師的保護傘因為你公告狼醫叫陳某某你到醫師查詢系統 又改名字了"},{"start":763.198,"end":773.515,"text":"所以我真的跟你說第四遍第五遍我不知道要說幾遍判決不是唯一認定違反醫療倫理的標準你們這樣子你們"},{"start":776.087,"end":794.624,"text":"你們目前的做委員 其實是真的大家需要委員我們你對醫事專業團體 不是行政人員調查的是醫事專業團體 他們所做的這個地方政府做的調查醫事團體做的決策和決議"},{"start":796.465,"end":815.682,"text":"案例調查跟他們的醫治團體專業你們信任度不足嗎違反醫療倫理的也不是只限於性平案件倒刷健保卡 僱用密醫使用非法的療法等等都嚴重的破壞醫病的信任這一些難道我們病患沒有知情權嗎"},{"start":817.293,"end":846.493,"text":"所以我們在這裡再一次呼籲揭露所有的判決書和懲戒紀錄也不限於性平案件和時間範圍而且你再講剛剛講了六個月六個月要確保我們下次查詢資訊可追溯可查驗還有第三個你的醫師查詢平台跟你的狼醫公告平台改名了跨縣市人你不整合在一起"},{"start":847.634,"end":854.983,"text":"現在又逍遙法外 你的查詢系統又變成狼醫的護身符這樣要怎麼做"},{"start":856.755,"end":876.808,"text":"委員所執行的我們一定都會去重視跟改善請放心那個我們剛剛所提的你的質疑我們一定都會去不是啦我不要聽到你重視跟改善那第二個就是說我們關於說是不是在調查期間能夠停止這個我們在8月下旬我有講到調查期間停職嗎會我有講到這句話嗎"},{"start":877.648,"end":883.733,"text":"沒有就是說我是說我們在做一些可能過去大家我沒有講到這個欸我告訴你就舉了法務部的律師查詢系統那麼簡單你根本要跟整合你的醫事查詢系統跟你的人醫整個平台整合在一起像法務部的律師查詢系統"},{"start":903.61,"end":929.063,"text":"查詢出來他的懲戒紀錄都有他現在職業狀態他的地址你再加上一個改名他的職業縣市在桃園有職業在新北有職業這樣子會很難嗎為什麼人家法務部做得到你做不到法務院其實都查得到但是有現在全部都查不到你不要胡說八道我的意思就是說人眼都查得到啦"},{"start":930.123,"end":944.071,"text":"你們衛福部查得到病患人民永遠查不到啦現在都還查不到啦是查得到現在比較多拒絕要暴露他身份的就是護理人員比較多啦我們有一個我不是跟你講了你的類別可以強度不用一樣嘛"},{"start":948.993,"end":965.964,"text":"你對醫師所要揭露的資訊跟對一個護理師 復健師 驗光師所要揭露的 你去分等級嘛我知道 我知道這這麼簡單的事情 我就不知道你們到底是怎麼想這就沒辦法做了兩者都沒辦法做了我不知道你醫事師的領略是要做什麼我今天來的計算都還沒開始啦老實說"},{"start":977.403,"end":987.986,"text":"我們針對進口藥品原料的課稅對我國產業造成的影響 老實說一個字都還沒諮詢這件事這麼簡單 我已經說第四遍了啦 第五遍了啦好 我們會繼續把它做得更好半年內"},{"start":997.25,"end":1014.222,"text":"我所質詢的全部都會得到答案嗎不過我還是跟委員報告一下醫師可以提供的資料跟律師其實是不太一樣因為他們的工作性質真的就不太一樣你不要去說這些啦那另外就是說現在要叫你揭露這個人有沒有懲戒紀錄有沒有判刑紀錄他的職業他是在哪個地方職業哪一個縣市職業"},{"start":1024.309,"end":1028.118,"text":"這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼 這是在說什麼"},{"start":1034.392,"end":1043.377,"text":"但是我們要照規定來做啊都尾不合規定啊我問你啊 都尾不合規定啊我剛才說的 都尾不合規定啊要我用個資保護法來說嗎我已經這三遍了 你在上面說沒問題啊現在又開始了 又來揮啊 又來擄 又來翻啊反反覆覆 亦反亦復啊小人心啊亦漲亦退啊 山西水俗語 俗語"},{"start":1066.866,"end":1089.51,"text":"反反覆覆啦 不能這樣啦 這麼簡單的事情還是要多補充就做得出來 多輸充就做得出來補充 你是要輸充娃娃的 就有人會做出來了啦啊啦 沒辦法 沒了補充娃娃的 沒地方就做出來了啦我不知道你的困難是在哪裡 你的困難到底是在哪裡啊"},{"start":1091.963,"end":1120.547,"text":"法律工具有限法律有侷限那律師的工具為什麼沒有受限好 我想這個部分那個你要多用一點心啦 我跟你講喔已經第四遍第五遍 再講也不好好啦 今天的主題下一次再諮詢喔因為我再講下去 我想我要避免 他也要避免啦好啦好啦 我們會繼續努力喔謝謝林淑恩委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":611,"blocks":[["林委員淑芬：（11時19分）好，謝謝主席，請邱部長。"],["邱部長泰源：委員好。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，千呼萬喚始出來，你們所謂的狼醫平臺的建置，本來是為了強化民眾的知情權和保障病人的安全，結果千呼萬喚始出來，面紗一揭開，這就是在對立法院虛與委蛇，覺得有做就好了，做交代的，搪塞、敷衍我們這些立委，搪塞、敷衍我們這個社會。現行的制度目前為止只揭露112年以後性平判決確定的案件，這樣的標準真的能夠回應社會大眾的擔憂嗎？我要再講，你們醫事司的司長強硬的表示他只這樣子做，你看，現在出面發言的都是副司長，現在醫事司是沒有司長了嗎？還是他大到都不用出來，躲在部長後面，還是躲在石署長後面？署長，是你「牽成」的，很大啊！他做的體系他不用負責，面對媒體時，都叫副司長出來，現在又要叫副司長來。","我現在舉幾個例子，看你們認為嚴不嚴重，我還要再問你們，這幾個案子在現行的制度裡面、在平臺裡面都不會被揭露。第一個案子，臺北的洪姓狼醫在診間假借指示護理師修改醫令，多次強制猥褻，明知對方明確的拒絕，還要持續的猥褻，109年判決確定，110年遭懲戒，到現在仍任要職，你知道他為什麼不會被揭露嗎？你沒在聽喔？"],["劉副司長玉菁：跟委員做報告，他不是不會被揭露，是我們有一部分的資料還是要跟司法院去接，所以是資料會再加上去……"],["林委員淑芬：部長，我要叫你回答，都判決確定了，109年就判決確定了！"],["邱部長泰源：不好意思，報告委員，我們第一階段是先把112年性平三法開始實行以後的資料呈現……"],["林委員淑芬：那112年以前的要多久？對啊，你們現在先公布112年以後判決的，那以前的要多久？要花多久時間？這種東西有這麼困難嗎？要多久？回答不出來？"],["邱部長泰源：我們現階段先……"],["林委員淑芬：我知道啊！"],["邱部長泰源：如果大家的意見要……"],["林委員淑芬：所以我才說不會被揭露，因為問你112年以前的要多久才會被揭露，你回答不出來，你說：我們不是不做，是未來要做。未來是要多久的時間以後才會做？你回答不出來，這不是在把我們「裝痟的」嗎？再來……"],["邱部長泰源：我們總是要有一個開始的時程嘛……"],["林委員淑芬：對啊！那我問你的期程規劃，112年以前的要花多久時間？"],["邱部長泰源：我們目前當然是先規劃112年性平……"],["林委員淑芬：主席，我抗議，時間暫停！他都答非所問，我問他112年以前判決的，它規劃的期程要花多久時間才會讓大家都可以查詢出來？結果他還在講112年以後，還在講112年目前。我在問他要花多少時間，因為司長沒來，部長不知道，你整個制度是在規劃什麼，你沒辦法回答出來？"],["邱部長泰源：有啦，我們一直都有開會在討論，而且我都親自主持……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有啦，你答非所問。"],["邱部長泰源：112年以前的到底要追溯到多久？"],["林委員淑芬：不是追溯到多久，是你要準備多久才能夠讓我們可以完整的查詢？"],["劉副司長玉菁：跟委員報告，事實上我們前段的作法是打算……"],["林委員淑芬：司長為什麼都沒來，都要靠你發言，對外發言也是都靠你，為什麼？"],["劉副司長玉菁：劉司長一直有在處理這個事情，他已經跟……"],["林委員淑芬：我現在看到媒體上發言的也不是他，已經很多次了，都不是他，也不來立法院。"],["主席：昨天有來，昨天公聽會有來。"],["林委員淑芬：昨天公聽會有來，今天有立委要質詢的就不來，昨天沒有立委質詢他的就來啦！唉呀，不要這樣子護航啦！部長，你能耐很好，你叫很多醫事團體出來幫你聲援繼續留任，連建築師公會都出來聲援，建築師公會都出來聲援了，然後叫一個司長來就叫不來喔？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，劉司長今天去參加一個醫師的……"],["林委員淑芬：我還有很多事情要問，我再問你另外一個臺北廖姓狼醫的案子，我們主張性平案件不應該只有侷限於對病人，也應該包含職場教學之便的範圍。今年有一個臺北廖姓狼醫對護理師性騷擾，114年判刑定讞，請問他會不會被揭露？會不會？今年剛定讞……"],["邱部長泰源：如果在112年，應該就會揭露。"],["林委員淑芬：不會！"],["劉副司長玉菁：跟委員報告，目前在資訊專區所揭露的，不管是對病人、對住院醫師還有對其他團隊的成員，只要有犯這樣的罪，都會把他做揭露。"],["林委員淑芬：你們的說明裡面沒有，你們現在只有侷限在對病人喔！對於同事、對於職場教學之便的範圍，沒有納入規範喔！你不能在這裡隨便說說，你們的內容、你們的揭露範圍不在裡面。"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，我想內容的充實以及掌握度，我們會一直加強。"],["林委員淑芬：部長，你現在在說什麼，我們都聽不懂啦！還有，我再跟你說四個不會被揭露的，已經懲處決議或調查已經確認，但沒有進入司法程序的。第一個，新北的陳姓狼醫109年利用職務之便在診間誘導病患發生關係，事後還改姓名，111年遭懲戒，現在還跨縣市執業，還擔任醫院裡的主管職。他不會被揭露啊！因為當事人沒有告他，沒有刑事訴訟，這會不會被揭露？跨縣市，還擔任主管職，你覺得這要不要讓大家知道？"],["劉副司長玉菁：跟委員補充，下一階段我們會把犯這樣罪的……"],["林委員淑芬：下一階段？"],["劉副司長玉菁：就是有被懲戒處分資料的我們也會做揭露。"],["林委員淑芬：下一階段是什麼時候？我現在就是要聽你下一階段的期程。"],["邱部長泰源：只要公開的資料，我們……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有啦！你不要轉移焦點，副司長說下一個階段你們連懲戒都可以被查詢到，那下一個階段是多久以後？你來告訴我。不要在這裡騙立委，當作回答立委都很好混，以為立委都笨笨的、很好騙。下一階段是多久？"],["邱部長泰源：報告委員，因為我們網路已經建立了，那個的確是突破性，這個也請委員要肯定一下。"],["林委員淑芬：什麼突破性？從今年1月、2月在野黨提案，我們一直質詢，我已經質詢這個第四次了、第四次了！"],["邱部長泰源：我們也跟司法院有聯繫，因為司法院一直沒有回應我們，所以我們只好有一點用人工的方式一直在蒐集資料，如果……"],["林委員淑芬：懲戒紀錄是在地方政府就有的，懲戒紀錄跟司法院無關，這是行政調查、行政懲戒。"],["邱部長泰源：我知道，報告委員，懲戒紀錄要看地方，每個地方的格式等等都不太一樣，所以我們……"],["林委員淑芬：你說格式不一樣，那我問你，我有叫你立即、馬上嗎？已經質詢三個月、四個月、五個月了，你到底要花多久的時間，你就告訴我，我們不要一拖再拖又拖！"],["邱部長泰源：我還是要跟大家報告一下現況，現況就是各個地方縣政府的標準……"],["林委員淑芬：光是這件事就已經講五個月了。"],["邱部長泰源：要給他們一個標準格式，以後有標準格式，就可以……"],["林委員淑芬：你不要用技術面來講，我都不要聽，我只問你，你認為要多久的時間？你如果說要一年就一年，說要半年就半年，你告訴我一個答案，告訴全國的人民到底要多久。"],["邱部長泰源：關於懲戒紀錄，醫事司認為它在技術方面……要是能夠隨時公布，我們明天公布也沒關係啊！"],["林委員淑芬：沒關係，我問你要多久？我給你時間啊！"],["邱部長泰源：但是我要看實際上他們在……"],["林委員淑芬：沒有啦！你跟我說要多久？"],["邱部長泰源：醫事司認為半年內可以完成。"],["林委員淑芬：半年內？你要告訴我，有懲戒紀錄的也會被揭露，也可以查詢得出來。改了名字的以及跨縣市執業的，那些你們原來醫事系統查詢的，會不會改善？要多久時間才能改善？"],["邱部長泰源：那個部分如果……"],["林委員淑芬：我已經質詢第四次了！"],["邱部長泰源：在他改名字以後我們是不是能夠找到？這個我就不敢講，但是不管他是否跨縣市，他還是留有紀錄，那些紀錄就會上去了。"],["林委員淑芬：我不是在講留有紀錄，是你們的醫事查詢系統查不到啦！我現在是在說你們的醫事查詢系統，我說第四次了、質詢第四次了，你們到現在都還聽不懂。我再跟你說，高雄曾姓狼醫趁診療機會取得病患聯絡資訊，進行性騷擾，114年遭懲戒停業兩個月，現在還在執業。桃園高姓狼醫110年診療時，藉著甲狀腺問題影響性荷爾蒙為由，對病患進行內診，還趁機性侵、強吻，直到護理師進來喊他，他才停止。雖然情況這麼嚴重，但當事人沒有進行刑事訴訟，而是在112年遭懲戒，到目前有訴訟還沒有定讞，所以仍在執業當中。第四個、臺中陳姓狼醫113到114年之間，多次假借看診名義襲胸、摸腿，地方政府認定性騷擾成立，但是還沒有懲戒紀錄。我現在說的是什麼？你們現行揭露機制的漏洞！112年以前的目前還查不到，只有懲處紀錄的也沒有辦法查得到，臺中市政府調查確認了也沒有公布，案件尚未定讞的都可能因為系統限制而不被揭露，而你們說還要再準備半年，我很擔心半年之後還是沒有辦法做好。但是這些案子並不會因為沒有揭露而不存在，這種案件通常會牽涉到權勢壓力，還有心理創傷，甚至我講了，很多沒有辦法進入訴訟程序，因為很多不敢講，加上醫生換名字、跨縣市執業，從你的醫事查詢系統根本就查不出來！公告在狼醫平臺，但狼醫改名字了、換了地方執業，在醫事查詢系統查不出來，因為沒有整合，所以讓一般病患要辨識狼醫的困難度很高，反而變成了不良醫師的保護傘，雖然醫事查詢系統公告狼醫叫陳某某，但他改名字了。我真的跟你說第四次、第五次了，我不知道要說幾次。判決不是唯一認定違反醫療倫理的標準，你們目前的作為真的是在這裡虛與委蛇。懲戒不是行政人員調查的，是地方政府所做的調查，醫事團體做的決策和決議，你們對於調查跟醫事團體專業的信任度不足嗎？違反醫療倫理的也不是只限於性平案件，盜刷健保卡、僱用密醫、使用非法療法等等，都嚴重破壞醫病信任，針對這一些，難道病患沒有知情權嗎？","我在這裡再一次呼籲，揭露所有的判決書和懲戒紀錄不限於性平案件和時間範圍，而且剛剛講了六個月要確保我們下次查詢資訊可追溯、可查驗。還有第三個、醫師查詢平臺跟狼醫公告平臺不把改名、跨縣市的整合在一起，現在又讓他逍遙法外，查詢系統反而變成狼醫的護身符，這樣要怎麼辦？"],["邱部長泰源：委員所質詢的，我們一定都會重視跟改善，請放心。你剛剛所提的質疑，我們一定都會一一檢討。"],["林委員淑芬：不，我不要聽到你說重視跟改善。"],["邱部長泰源：第二個、關於在調查期間是不是能夠停職，我們在8月下旬……"],["林委員淑芬：我有講到調查期間停職嗎？我有講到這句話嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：沒有！我是說我們在做一些可能過去大家所……"],["林委員淑芬：我沒有講到這個！我就舉了法務部的律師查詢系統，那麼簡單，難道你們沒辦法把醫事查詢系統跟狼醫平臺整合在一起？像法務部的律師查詢系統，查詢出來懲戒紀錄都有，包括現在的執業狀態、地址，再加上改名、執業的縣市，例如在桃園有執業、在新北有執業，這樣會很難嗎？為什麼人家法務部做得到，你做不到？"],["邱部長泰源：其實都查得到，但是的確有……"],["林委員淑芬：現在全部都查不到，你不要胡說八道！"],["邱部長泰源：我的意思是人員都查得到，但是……"],["林委員淑芬：衛福部查得到，病患、人民永遠查不到，現在都還查不到！"],["邱部長泰源：查得到。現在比較多拒絕暴露身分的是護理人員，我們有一個……"],["林委員淑芬：我不是跟你講了？類別、強度可以不用一樣，對醫師所要揭露的資訊跟對護理師、復健師、驗光師所要揭露的，你去分等級嘛！"],["邱部長泰源：我知道。"],["林委員淑芬：這麼簡單的事情，我不知道你們到底是怎樣，連這個都沒辦法做？連這個都沒辦法做，我不知道以醫事司的能力是要做什麼？我今天的質詢都還沒開始，老實說，針對進口藥品、原料藥課稅對我國產業造成的影響，一個字都還沒質詢。這件事情這麼簡單，我已經說第四遍、第五遍了！"],["邱部長泰源：我們會繼續把它做得更好。"],["林委員淑芬：半年內，我所質詢的全部都會得到答案嗎？"],["邱部長泰源：不過我還是跟委員報告一下，醫師可以提供的資料跟律師其實不太一樣，因為工作性質真的就不太一樣。"],["林委員淑芬：你不要去說這個啦！"],["邱部長泰源：另外就是……"],["林委員淑芬：現在要叫你揭露這個人有沒有懲戒紀錄、有沒有判刑紀錄、他在哪個地方執業、哪一個縣市執業……"],["邱部長泰源：沒關係，我們都是依法來辦理。"],["林委員淑芬：這是在說什麼？這有什麼好隱瞞的？連醫生自己都看不過去了，你這種態度……"],["邱部長泰源：沒什麼好隱瞞的。"],["林委員淑芬：掩護狼醫！"],["邱部長泰源：但是我們要照規定來做。"],["林委員淑芬：哪裡不合規定？我問你，哪裡不合規定？我剛才說的哪一點不合規定，要再跟我用個資保護法來講了嗎？那個我已經質詢三遍了，你上次就說沒問題，現在又開始胡扯、硬拗，反反覆覆！"],["邱部長泰源：我們非常誠懇在解決問題。"],["林委員淑芬：俗語說：易反易覆小人心，易漲易退山溪水。就是反反覆覆，不要這樣！這是這麼簡單的事情，還是說換部長就做得出來，換司長就做得出來？部長，把司長換一換，就會有人做出來了！如果沒辦法，不然就把部長換一換，說不定就做出來了。我不知道你的困難是在哪裡，你的困難到底是在哪裡？是醫師的法律工具有限、法律有侷限？那律師的工具為什麼沒有受限？"],["邱部長泰源：好，我想這個部分……"],["林委員淑芬：你要多用一點心，我已經跟你說第四次、第五次，再說也沒用。今天的主題下次再質詢，因為我再說下去，我想我會翻臉，他也會翻臉。"],["邱部長泰源：我們會繼續努力，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝林淑芬委員，感恩。","請黃秀芳委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":328,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-24","speakers":["蘇清泉","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","邱鎮軍","王育敏","廖偉翔","盧縣一","林淑芬","黃秀芳","王正旭","葉元之","陳瑩","劉建國","楊曜","涂權吉"],"page_start":267,"meetingDate":["2025-08-14"],"gazette_id":"1147202","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147202_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請衛生福利部、經濟部、財政部就「美國針對進口藥品、原料藥課稅對我國產業造成影響」進\n行專題報告，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147202_00006"}}}