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00:00:47,781\n應該說農業部就農業要考量的絕對會清楚的讓整個談判團隊知道對因為剛才聽起來有些時候有些場合農業部的官員不見得是在這個談判的過程裡面\n\n3\n00:00:48,602 --> 00:01:03,506\n那其實在條約的這一個不管是條約也好或者是這個框架也好那有些時候不是每一個部會都會到期所以讓每一個關鍵的談判代表談判副代表能夠知道我們農業部的底線非常重要\n\n4\n00:01:03,786 --> 00:01:31,685\n特別要講這件事情的原因是因為像是雞肉豬肉是不是會進一步的這個放寬進口限制或者是擴大這個進口的可能性是否會要求不另外標示原產地等等這些可能我們不知道因為現在還在談判的過程中但有可能都會在談判裡面成為他的一部分可能會被犧牲的部分那我們作為農業縣的立法委員我是絕對希望是農業部要全力要傳達給我們負責的代表們\n\n5\n00:01:34,046 --> 00:02:02,807\n這是我們要堅定的一些底線那還有稻米啊稻米包含日本其實在這一次他們的談判過程中也是受到很嚴重的這個影響所以我一直在強調不管是美國的這些各個不同的農產品那他們這種大量的接近農業工業化的生產那其實是對我國的各個品項我剛剛講到不管是豬不管是雞不管是這些稻米等等都會有嚴重性的打擊\n\n6\n00:02:03,513 --> 00:02:20,564\n那加上我們這幾次的這些嚴重的災害已經有很大部分的尼龍潮也就是說青龍是慢慢的沒有辦法去接受這樣天然災害帶來的損害跟他們財務上面的損失所以這全部都是環環相扣的所以這一次的災害的條例裡面我一直在強調說\n\n7\n00:02:22,225 --> 00:02:41,965\n除了這個農損的部分之外還有這些外銷的獎勵金融的支持都必須在納入本次的範圍裡面因為這是雙重的打擊天災加上可能的這種關稅的影響那美國他是長期享有我們的這個順差29億美元所以在這個部分\n\n8\n00:02:43,275 --> 00:03:01,752\n這個美國優先不是我們優先我們台灣是優先的在這個狀況之下我們更要具體力證所以這邊我跟次長講就拜託你肯定要把這個訊息要讓整個談判的代表們代表團都很清楚的知道那包含副院長那他的這一個\n\n9\n00:03:03,086 --> 00:03:25,425\n跟他的對話裡面都要堅守這個底線因為台灣不是只有台積電一個產業嘛台積電獨好跟其他的產業是必須要共榮才對啊那我們不可能犧牲弱勢的產業來去成就一個強勢的產業啊我們就是這個均衡台灣裡面是每個人要往前走一步不是一個人走一百步啊那現在看起來是產業面的話一片大好\n\n10\n00:03:26,346 --> 00:03:46,721\n但是都是在最高科技的产业是最具优势的产业那它的好怎么样能够来把它的这个它的荣耀也好它的利润也好怎么有办法分给我们其他比较弱势的农业呢这个都是我们必须要考量的部分那再来我们邀请这个副总裁麦代表谢谢委员委员好\n\n11\n00:03:53,823 --> 00:04:13,437\n副代表好那現在都還是在爭取關稅減免當中那所以剛才聽到很多的委員們的質詢其實我都可以理解因為現在就還在討論當中那既然有保密條約我們就我不要問內部的細節但是我要強調我們可以怎麼樣擴大我們的籌碼\n\n12\n00:04:14,338 --> 00:04:38,949\n那不要犧牲弱勢但是我們可以用我們可以做的產業我們可以做的採購來去增加我們的談判的能量那有人說是不是把安全的考量國防的這些採購也納入剛才聽次長要不次長你有說說只有軍售的不算商售的部分算那除了軍售商售之外我是希望說能夠把造建的合作也來可以換取這個關稅的減免\n\n13\n00:04:40,933 --> 00:05:02,614\n美國總統川普在今年3月他宣布他要成立造建辦公室那這個造建辦公室已經移至預算管理局裡面他直接掌控的分配在美國的大安美法案中他的規模是430億美元那涉及的部分大家清清楚楚就是大量的零部件的採購那我想這個部分應該可以是在商售的部分\n\n14\n00:05:03,274 --> 00:05:20,057\n也就是說我們跟美國他們這個造艦的計畫也好我們可以配合甚至是說我們自己本身也可以看到我們海巡單位其實是面臨中國的海警船的時候他們大噸位數量又多我們其實是可以做大量的採購的\n\n15\n00:05:21,098 --> 00:05:41,281\n那在這個部分我是希望談判辦公室可不可以利用台灣在印太安全跟造艦供應鏈他的這個戰略的地位我們來去爭取來去購買也好或者是採購各種不同的這種裝備來去增加我們的談判籌碼這個是不是可以也納入考量\n\n16\n00:05:43,106 --> 00:06:04,589\n好那個謝謝委員的這個提醒我想我各種的這個意見我都會吸回然後提供給我們談判小組那不過當然我相信大家也會看到像韓國確實他有特別提到他會在這個造船廠產業上面去宣布這些相關的投資這個看起來或許\n\n17\n00:06:05,209 --> 00:06:28,344\n美國是可以接受類似這樣子的一個提議不過我想每一個國家跟美國的經貿關係產業結構不同那每個國家的產業優勢大概也有相異所以我想就台灣來說我們在這個造船造艦的產業上面當然可以把這個委員的意見一併吸回讓我們的談判小組來參考\n\n18\n00:06:29,637 --> 00:06:56,013\n還有另外一點就是也不用就是好像是避而不談就是說大量的國防採購是不是也在本次的貿易談判裡面的框架之中我個人認為大量的國防採購那某種程度既可以緩解我們在農業部分不用這樣子浪利甚至犧牲我們的農業利益又能夠增強我的我國的國家安全的能量我認為這個是一個方向我不認為這是一個要避談\n\n19\n00:06:57,194 --> 00:07:23,192\n如果能夠大量採購我們所需要的裝備來去爭取更好的稅率我覺得這是必須要為之的甚至其實也不是只有國防我們最近看到很多的其實以前是在離島但是現在開始甚至包含本島都有這樣的狀況就是中國的漁船在不斷地想要切或者是他用各種他們其他國籍偽造的這些相關的船隻想要來去\n\n20\n00:07:24,193 --> 00:07:41,309\n傷害我們的海纜那其實建造這個海纜的修復船它其實是很貴的但是它又是必須要有的所以這一些的設備它是把它們納入之後我們可以去遊說那如果把這些納入之後又可以同時提升我們基礎設施的韌性跟造船產業的能量的話\n\n21\n00:07:42,330 --> 00:08:10,200\n我認為也是可以維持的其實有很多事情是我們自己要創造籌碼那我相信在談判的過程中各個部位都在裡面但是我們可以多項溝通從交通部到國防部我們可以採購的我們能夠做的那又不會傷害到我們比較脆弱一點的產業的那就應該要這樣做那再來就是我們上週跟烏克蘭的國會議員這個可能要請教次長交流的時候他說台廠的這個無人機電池在中國的售價\n\n22\n00:08:11,451 --> 00:08:28,105\n甚至比在台灣的售價還要便宜所以我必須強調我們一直說我們要挺烏克蘭要支持烏克蘭可是跟他們交流的時候發現到說奇怪我們怎麼這些我們的無人機的零件的這些市場的策略成本的結構跟供應鏈的漏洞其實都有出現這樣子的狀況市長你可不可以簡單回應一下\n\n23\n00:08:29,372 --> 00:08:42,072\n是當然我們在跟這個尤其是包括烏克蘭在內啦其實我們做的更多的可能是在這個跟周邊的國家包括立陶宛包括拉脫維亞等等的這些國家\n\n24\n00:08:42,657 --> 00:08:59,000\n那麼也有積極的在推廣我們的無人機那麼至於是說它在這個您說的這個烏克蘭這個訪團所反映的這個問題我們會進行了解但是說很多時候還是廠商的決定那重點在於是說其實量要出來\n\n25\n00:09:00,821 --> 00:09:25,612\n這個是外交部要在努力的方向包括跟立陶宛包括跟拉脫維亞包括跟波蘭捷克是不是能夠推廣更多的合作像我們的無人機的產業訪問團在胡凱宏的董事長帶領之下我們也跟拉脫維亞跟立陶宛簽訂了合作的標準我們希望在這方面能夠拓展我們的商機\n\n26\n00:09:26,432 --> 00:09:36,345\n能夠把單的量能夠做大然後能夠讓我們出口到這些國家的時候必去中國它的無人機的供應鏈\n\n27\n00:09:37,233 --> 00:10:04,771\n那麼能夠來得好當然我們一定會做好把關的動作我們跟經濟部跟其他相關的部會配合相對於所謂的出口管制飛鴻供應鏈的這個我們也會做更多的我希望我們不要把一些關鍵的零組件然後被低價轉售到一定烏克蘭的敵對的市場那這個就是拿自己的資源來砸自己的腳這是不對的那這個一定要注重那再來就是跟烏克蘭的合作那外交部可能\n\n28\n00:10:05,732 --> 00:10:25,459\n要扮演更重要的角色來去聯繫特別是跟他們的廠商產業企業跟我國怎麼樣把他接架起來還有幫他們的人員訓練因為他們是第一時間第一手就是應用這些新科技的那都必須在我們的無人機的戰略裡面上次我問國防部長無人機的戰略是什麼他說這個非常機敏他不願意\n\n29\n00:10:26,599 --> 00:10:51,553\n透露不願意公開那我就手裡就拿著其他英國跟其他國家的這一個無人機的戰略那如果我們沒有戰略的思考那只是在這邊隨隨便便說這個也是涉及國家機密那就是走向不同的道路那這個不同的道路就會開始有很多的問題出來就像剛剛提到的為什麼我國我們台廠自己製造的這些東西竟然在中國更便宜還要透過想要購買我們的東西還要從中國的市場這樣子\n\n30\n00:10:52,934 --> 00:10:59,382\n這個就是一個問題啊是那如果你戰略不透明完全同意不清晰那以後大家怎麼視從無以視從嘛對不對是謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6829\t31779\t是委員好市長好市長我們有沒有跟談判辦公室有非常密切的聯繫應該是說整個農業部都是談判的一個關鍵的核心農業部都是團隊的核心所以說在談判的過程中我們很清楚的讓整個談判過程都知道我們農業的底線是什麼應該沒有錯吧\n34105\t47781\t應該說農業部就農業要考量的絕對會清楚的讓整個談判團隊知道對 因為剛才聽起來有些時候有些場合農業部的官員不見得是在這個談判的過程裡面\n48602\t63506\t那其實在條約的這一個不管是條約也好或者是這個框架也好那有些時候不是每一個部會都會到期所以讓每一個關鍵的談判代表 談判副代表能夠知道我們農業部的底線非常重要\n63786\t91685\t特別要講這件事情的原因是因為像是雞肉豬肉是不是會進一步的這個放寬進口限制或者是擴大這個進口的可能性是否會要求不另外標示原產地等等這些可能我們不知道因為現在還在談判的過程中但有可能都會在談判裡面成為他的一部分可能會被犧牲的部分那我們作為農業縣的立法委員我是絕對希望是農業部要全力要傳達給我們負責的代表們\n94046\t122807\t這是我們要堅定的一些底線那還有稻米啊稻米包含日本其實在這一次他們的談判過程中也是受到很嚴重的這個影響所以我一直在強調不管是美國的這些各個不同的農產品那他們這種大量的接近農業工業化的生產那其實是對我國的各個品項我剛剛講到不管是豬不管是雞不管是這些稻米等等都會有嚴重性的打擊\n123513\t140564\t那加上我們這幾次的這些嚴重的災害已經有很大部分的尼龍潮也就是說青龍是慢慢的沒有辦法去接受這樣天然災害帶來的損害跟他們財務上面的損失所以這全部都是環環相扣的所以這一次的災害的條例裡面我一直在強調說\n142225\t161965\t除了這個農損的部分之外還有這些外銷的獎勵金融的支持都必須在納入本次的範圍裡面因為這是雙重的打擊天災加上可能的這種關稅的影響那美國他是長期享有我們的這個順差29億美元所以在這個部分\n163275\t181752\t這個美國優先不是我們優先我們台灣是優先的在這個狀況之下我們更要具體力證所以這邊我跟次長講就拜託你肯定要把這個訊息要讓整個談判的代表們代表團都很清楚的知道那包含副院長那他的這一個\n183086\t205425\t跟他的對話裡面都要堅守這個底線因為台灣不是只有台積電一個產業嘛台積電獨好跟其他的產業是必須要共榮才對啊那我們不可能犧牲弱勢的產業來去成就一個強勢的產業啊我們就是這個均衡台灣裡面是每個人要往前走一步不是一個人走一百步啊那現在看起來是產業面的話一片大好\n206346\t226721\t但是都是在最高科技的产业是最具优势的产业那它的好怎么样能够来把它的这个它的荣耀也好它的利润也好怎么有办法分给我们其他比较弱势的农业呢这个都是我们必须要考量的部分那再来我们邀请这个副总裁麦代表谢谢委员委员好\n233823\t253437\t副代表好 那現在都還是在爭取關稅減免當中那所以剛才聽到很多的委員們的質詢其實我都可以理解因為現在就還在討論當中那既然有保密條約我們就我不要問內部的細節但是我要強調我們可以怎麼樣擴大我們的籌碼\n254338\t278949\t那不要犧牲弱勢但是我們可以用我們可以做的產業我們可以做的採購來去增加我們的談判的能量那有人說是不是把安全的考量國防的這些採購也納入剛才聽次長要不次長你有說說只有軍售的不算商售的部分算那除了軍售商售之外我是希望說能夠把造建的合作也來可以換取這個關稅的減免\n280933\t302614\t美國總統川普在今年3月他宣布他要成立造建辦公室那這個造建辦公室已經移至預算管理局裡面他直接掌控的分配在美國的大安美法案中他的規模是430億美元那涉及的部分大家清清楚楚就是大量的零部件的採購那我想這個部分應該可以是在商售的部分\n303274\t320057\t也就是說我們跟美國他們這個造艦的計畫也好我們可以配合甚至是說我們自己本身也可以看到我們海巡單位其實是面臨中國的海警船的時候他們大噸位 數量又多我們其實是可以做大量的採購的\n321098\t341281\t那在這個部分我是希望談判辦公室可不可以利用台灣在印太安全跟造艦供應鏈他的這個戰略的地位我們來去爭取來去購買也好或者是採購各種不同的這種裝備來去增加我們的談判籌碼這個是不是可以也納入考量\n343106\t364589\t好那個謝謝委員的這個提醒我想我各種的這個意見我都會吸回然後提供給我們談判小組那不過當然我相信大家也會看到像韓國確實他有特別提到他會在這個造船廠產業上面去宣布這些相關的投資這個看起來或許\n365209\t388344\t美國是可以接受類似這樣子的一個提議不過我想每一個國家跟美國的經貿關係產業結構不同那每個國家的產業優勢大概也有相異所以我想就台灣來說我們在這個造船造艦的產業上面當然可以把這個委員的意見一併吸回讓我們的談判小組來參考\n389637\t416013\t還有另外一點就是也不用就是好像是避而不談就是說大量的國防採購是不是也在本次的貿易談判裡面的框架之中我個人認為大量的國防採購那某種程度既可以緩解我們在農業部分不用這樣子浪利甚至犧牲我們的農業利益又能夠增強我的我國的國家安全的能量我認為這個是一個方向我不認為這是一個要避談\n417194\t443192\t如果能夠大量採購我們所需要的裝備來去爭取更好的稅率我覺得這是必須要為之的甚至其實也不是只有國防我們最近看到很多的其實以前是在離島但是現在開始甚至包含本島都有這樣的狀況就是中國的漁船在不斷地想要切或者是他用各種他們其他國籍偽造的這些相關的船隻想要來去\n444193\t461309\t傷害我們的海纜那其實建造這個海纜的修復船它其實是很貴的但是它又是必須要有的所以這一些的設備它是把它們納入之後我們可以去遊說那如果把這些納入之後又可以同時提升我們基礎設施的韌性跟造船產業的能量的話\n462330\t490200\t我認為也是可以維持的其實有很多事情是我們自己要創造籌碼那我相信在談判的過程中各個部位都在裡面但是我們可以多項溝通從交通部到國防部我們可以採購的我們能夠做的那又不會傷害到我們比較脆弱一點的產業的那就應該要這樣做那再來就是我們上週跟烏克蘭的國會議員這個可能要請教次長交流的時候他說台廠的這個無人機電池在中國的售價\n491451\t508105\t甚至比在台灣的售價還要便宜所以我必須強調我們一直說我們要挺烏克蘭要支持烏克蘭可是跟他們交流的時候發現到說奇怪我們怎麼這些我們的無人機的零件的這些市場的策略成本的結構跟供應鏈的漏洞其實都有出現這樣子的狀況市長你可不可以簡單回應一下\n509372\t522072\t是當然我們在跟這個尤其是包括烏克蘭在內啦其實我們做的更多的可能是在這個跟周邊的國家包括立陶宛包括拉脫維亞等等的這些國家\n522657\t539000\t那麼也有積極的在推廣我們的無人機那麼至於是說它在這個您說的這個烏克蘭這個訪團所反映的這個問題我們會進行了解但是說很多時候還是廠商的決定那重點在於是說其實量要出來\n540821\t565612\t這個是外交部要在努力的方向包括跟立陶宛 包括跟拉脫維亞 包括跟波蘭捷克是不是能夠推廣更多的合作像我們的無人機的產業訪問團在胡凱宏的董事長帶領之下我們也跟拉脫維亞 跟立陶宛簽訂了合作的標準我們希望在這方面能夠拓展我們的商機\n566432\t576345\t能夠把單的量能夠做大然後能夠讓我們出口到這些國家的時候必去中國它的無人機的供應鏈\n577233\t604771\t那麼能夠來得好當然我們一定會做好把關的動作我們跟經濟部跟其他相關的部會配合相對於所謂的出口管制飛鴻供應鏈的這個我們也會做更多的我希望我們不要把一些關鍵的零組件然後被低價轉售到一定烏克蘭的敵對的市場那這個就是拿自己的資源來砸自己的腳這是不對的那這個一定要注重那再來就是跟烏克蘭的合作那外交部可能\n605732\t625459\t要扮演更重要的角色來去聯繫特別是跟他們的廠商產業企業跟我國怎麼樣把他接架起來還有幫他們的人員訓練因為他們是第一時間第一手就是應用這些新科技的那都必須在我們的無人機的戰略裡面上次我問國防部長無人機的戰略是什麼他說這個非常機敏他不願意\n626599\t651553\t透露不願意公開那我就手裡就拿著其他英國跟其他國家的這一個無人機的戰略那如果我們沒有戰略的思考那只是在這邊隨隨便便說這個也是涉及國家機密那就是走向不同的道路那這個不同的道路就會開始有很多的問題出來就像剛剛提到的為什麼我國我們台廠自己製造的這些東西竟然在中國更便宜還要透過想要購買我們的東西還要從中國的市場這樣子\n652934\t659382\t這個就是一個問題啊是那如果你戰略不透明完全同意不清晰那以後大家怎麼視從無以視從嘛對不對是謝謝\n","txt":"是委員好市長好市長我們有沒有跟談判辦公室有非常密切的聯繫應該是說整個農業部都是談判的一個關鍵的核心農業部都是團隊的核心所以說在談判的過程中我們很清楚的讓整個談判過程都知道我們農業的底線是什麼應該沒有錯吧\n應該說農業部就農業要考量的絕對會清楚的讓整個談判團隊知道對 因為剛才聽起來有些時候有些場合農業部的官員不見得是在這個談判的過程裡面\n那其實在條約的這一個不管是條約也好或者是這個框架也好那有些時候不是每一個部會都會到期所以讓每一個關鍵的談判代表 談判副代表能夠知道我們農業部的底線非常重要\n特別要講這件事情的原因是因為像是雞肉豬肉是不是會進一步的這個放寬進口限制或者是擴大這個進口的可能性是否會要求不另外標示原產地等等這些可能我們不知道因為現在還在談判的過程中但有可能都會在談判裡面成為他的一部分可能會被犧牲的部分那我們作為農業縣的立法委員我是絕對希望是農業部要全力要傳達給我們負責的代表們\n這是我們要堅定的一些底線那還有稻米啊稻米包含日本其實在這一次他們的談判過程中也是受到很嚴重的這個影響所以我一直在強調不管是美國的這些各個不同的農產品那他們這種大量的接近農業工業化的生產那其實是對我國的各個品項我剛剛講到不管是豬不管是雞不管是這些稻米等等都會有嚴重性的打擊\n那加上我們這幾次的這些嚴重的災害已經有很大部分的尼龍潮也就是說青龍是慢慢的沒有辦法去接受這樣天然災害帶來的損害跟他們財務上面的損失所以這全部都是環環相扣的所以這一次的災害的條例裡面我一直在強調說\n除了這個農損的部分之外還有這些外銷的獎勵金融的支持都必須在納入本次的範圍裡面因為這是雙重的打擊天災加上可能的這種關稅的影響那美國他是長期享有我們的這個順差29億美元所以在這個部分\n這個美國優先不是我們優先我們台灣是優先的在這個狀況之下我們更要具體力證所以這邊我跟次長講就拜託你肯定要把這個訊息要讓整個談判的代表們代表團都很清楚的知道那包含副院長那他的這一個\n跟他的對話裡面都要堅守這個底線因為台灣不是只有台積電一個產業嘛台積電獨好跟其他的產業是必須要共榮才對啊那我們不可能犧牲弱勢的產業來去成就一個強勢的產業啊我們就是這個均衡台灣裡面是每個人要往前走一步不是一個人走一百步啊那現在看起來是產業面的話一片大好\n但是都是在最高科技的产业是最具优势的产业那它的好怎么样能够来把它的这个它的荣耀也好它的利润也好怎么有办法分给我们其他比较弱势的农业呢这个都是我们必须要考量的部分那再来我们邀请这个副总裁麦代表谢谢委员委员好\n副代表好 那現在都還是在爭取關稅減免當中那所以剛才聽到很多的委員們的質詢其實我都可以理解因為現在就還在討論當中那既然有保密條約我們就我不要問內部的細節但是我要強調我們可以怎麼樣擴大我們的籌碼\n那不要犧牲弱勢但是我們可以用我們可以做的產業我們可以做的採購來去增加我們的談判的能量那有人說是不是把安全的考量國防的這些採購也納入剛才聽次長要不次長你有說說只有軍售的不算商售的部分算那除了軍售商售之外我是希望說能夠把造建的合作也來可以換取這個關稅的減免\n美國總統川普在今年3月他宣布他要成立造建辦公室那這個造建辦公室已經移至預算管理局裡面他直接掌控的分配在美國的大安美法案中他的規模是430億美元那涉及的部分大家清清楚楚就是大量的零部件的採購那我想這個部分應該可以是在商售的部分\n也就是說我們跟美國他們這個造艦的計畫也好我們可以配合甚至是說我們自己本身也可以看到我們海巡單位其實是面臨中國的海警船的時候他們大噸位 數量又多我們其實是可以做大量的採購的\n那在這個部分我是希望談判辦公室可不可以利用台灣在印太安全跟造艦供應鏈他的這個戰略的地位我們來去爭取來去購買也好或者是採購各種不同的這種裝備來去增加我們的談判籌碼這個是不是可以也納入考量\n好那個謝謝委員的這個提醒我想我各種的這個意見我都會吸回然後提供給我們談判小組那不過當然我相信大家也會看到像韓國確實他有特別提到他會在這個造船廠產業上面去宣布這些相關的投資這個看起來或許\n美國是可以接受類似這樣子的一個提議不過我想每一個國家跟美國的經貿關係產業結構不同那每個國家的產業優勢大概也有相異所以我想就台灣來說我們在這個造船造艦的產業上面當然可以把這個委員的意見一併吸回讓我們的談判小組來參考\n還有另外一點就是也不用就是好像是避而不談就是說大量的國防採購是不是也在本次的貿易談判裡面的框架之中我個人認為大量的國防採購那某種程度既可以緩解我們在農業部分不用這樣子浪利甚至犧牲我們的農業利益又能夠增強我的我國的國家安全的能量我認為這個是一個方向我不認為這是一個要避談\n如果能夠大量採購我們所需要的裝備來去爭取更好的稅率我覺得這是必須要為之的甚至其實也不是只有國防我們最近看到很多的其實以前是在離島但是現在開始甚至包含本島都有這樣的狀況就是中國的漁船在不斷地想要切或者是他用各種他們其他國籍偽造的這些相關的船隻想要來去\n傷害我們的海纜那其實建造這個海纜的修復船它其實是很貴的但是它又是必須要有的所以這一些的設備它是把它們納入之後我們可以去遊說那如果把這些納入之後又可以同時提升我們基礎設施的韌性跟造船產業的能量的話\n我認為也是可以維持的其實有很多事情是我們自己要創造籌碼那我相信在談判的過程中各個部位都在裡面但是我們可以多項溝通從交通部到國防部我們可以採購的我們能夠做的那又不會傷害到我們比較脆弱一點的產業的那就應該要這樣做那再來就是我們上週跟烏克蘭的國會議員這個可能要請教次長交流的時候他說台廠的這個無人機電池在中國的售價\n甚至比在台灣的售價還要便宜所以我必須強調我們一直說我們要挺烏克蘭要支持烏克蘭可是跟他們交流的時候發現到說奇怪我們怎麼這些我們的無人機的零件的這些市場的策略成本的結構跟供應鏈的漏洞其實都有出現這樣子的狀況市長你可不可以簡單回應一下\n是當然我們在跟這個尤其是包括烏克蘭在內啦其實我們做的更多的可能是在這個跟周邊的國家包括立陶宛包括拉脫維亞等等的這些國家\n那麼也有積極的在推廣我們的無人機那麼至於是說它在這個您說的這個烏克蘭這個訪團所反映的這個問題我們會進行了解但是說很多時候還是廠商的決定那重點在於是說其實量要出來\n這個是外交部要在努力的方向包括跟立陶宛 包括跟拉脫維亞 包括跟波蘭捷克是不是能夠推廣更多的合作像我們的無人機的產業訪問團在胡凱宏的董事長帶領之下我們也跟拉脫維亞 跟立陶宛簽訂了合作的標準我們希望在這方面能夠拓展我們的商機\n能夠把單的量能夠做大然後能夠讓我們出口到這些國家的時候必去中國它的無人機的供應鏈\n那麼能夠來得好當然我們一定會做好把關的動作我們跟經濟部跟其他相關的部會配合相對於所謂的出口管制飛鴻供應鏈的這個我們也會做更多的我希望我們不要把一些關鍵的零組件然後被低價轉售到一定烏克蘭的敵對的市場那這個就是拿自己的資源來砸自己的腳這是不對的那這個一定要注重那再來就是跟烏克蘭的合作那外交部可能\n要扮演更重要的角色來去聯繫特別是跟他們的廠商產業企業跟我國怎麼樣把他接架起來還有幫他們的人員訓練因為他們是第一時間第一手就是應用這些新科技的那都必須在我們的無人機的戰略裡面上次我問國防部長無人機的戰略是什麼他說這個非常機敏他不願意\n透露不願意公開那我就手裡就拿著其他英國跟其他國家的這一個無人機的戰略那如果我們沒有戰略的思考那只是在這邊隨隨便便說這個也是涉及國家機密那就是走向不同的道路那這個不同的道路就會開始有很多的問題出來就像剛剛提到的為什麼我國我們台廠自己製造的這些東西竟然在中國更便宜還要透過想要購買我們的東西還要從中國的市場這樣子\n這個就是一個問題啊是那如果你戰略不透明完全同意不清晰那以後大家怎麼視從無以視從嘛對不對是謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.829 --> 00:31.779\n是委員好市長好市長我們有沒有跟談判辦公室有非常密切的聯繫應該是說整個農業部都是談判的一個關鍵的核心農業部都是團隊的核心所以說在談判的過程中我們很清楚的讓整個談判過程都知道我們農業的底線是什麼應該沒有錯吧\n\n00:34.105 --> 00:47.781\n應該說農業部就農業要考量的絕對會清楚的讓整個談判團隊知道對因為剛才聽起來有些時候有些場合農業部的官員不見得是在這個談判的過程裡面\n\n00:48.602 --> 01:03.506\n那其實在條約的這一個不管是條約也好或者是這個框架也好那有些時候不是每一個部會都會到期所以讓每一個關鍵的談判代表談判副代表能夠知道我們農業部的底線非常重要\n\n01:03.786 --> 01:31.685\n特別要講這件事情的原因是因為像是雞肉豬肉是不是會進一步的這個放寬進口限制或者是擴大這個進口的可能性是否會要求不另外標示原產地等等這些可能我們不知道因為現在還在談判的過程中但有可能都會在談判裡面成為他的一部分可能會被犧牲的部分那我們作為農業縣的立法委員我是絕對希望是農業部要全力要傳達給我們負責的代表們\n\n01:34.046 --> 02:02.807\n這是我們要堅定的一些底線那還有稻米啊稻米包含日本其實在這一次他們的談判過程中也是受到很嚴重的這個影響所以我一直在強調不管是美國的這些各個不同的農產品那他們這種大量的接近農業工業化的生產那其實是對我國的各個品項我剛剛講到不管是豬不管是雞不管是這些稻米等等都會有嚴重性的打擊\n\n02:03.513 --> 02:20.564\n那加上我們這幾次的這些嚴重的災害已經有很大部分的尼龍潮也就是說青龍是慢慢的沒有辦法去接受這樣天然災害帶來的損害跟他們財務上面的損失所以這全部都是環環相扣的所以這一次的災害的條例裡面我一直在強調說\n\n02:22.225 --> 02:41.965\n除了這個農損的部分之外還有這些外銷的獎勵金融的支持都必須在納入本次的範圍裡面因為這是雙重的打擊天災加上可能的這種關稅的影響那美國他是長期享有我們的這個順差29億美元所以在這個部分\n\n02:43.275 --> 03:01.752\n這個美國優先不是我們優先我們台灣是優先的在這個狀況之下我們更要具體力證所以這邊我跟次長講就拜託你肯定要把這個訊息要讓整個談判的代表們代表團都很清楚的知道那包含副院長那他的這一個\n\n03:03.086 --> 03:25.425\n跟他的對話裡面都要堅守這個底線因為台灣不是只有台積電一個產業嘛台積電獨好跟其他的產業是必須要共榮才對啊那我們不可能犧牲弱勢的產業來去成就一個強勢的產業啊我們就是這個均衡台灣裡面是每個人要往前走一步不是一個人走一百步啊那現在看起來是產業面的話一片大好\n\n03:26.346 --> 03:46.721\n但是都是在最高科技的产业是最具优势的产业那它的好怎么样能够来把它的这个它的荣耀也好它的利润也好怎么有办法分给我们其他比较弱势的农业呢这个都是我们必须要考量的部分那再来我们邀请这个副总裁麦代表谢谢委员委员好\n\n03:53.823 --> 04:13.437\n副代表好那現在都還是在爭取關稅減免當中那所以剛才聽到很多的委員們的質詢其實我都可以理解因為現在就還在討論當中那既然有保密條約我們就我不要問內部的細節但是我要強調我們可以怎麼樣擴大我們的籌碼\n\n04:14.338 --> 04:38.949\n那不要犧牲弱勢但是我們可以用我們可以做的產業我們可以做的採購來去增加我們的談判的能量那有人說是不是把安全的考量國防的這些採購也納入剛才聽次長要不次長你有說說只有軍售的不算商售的部分算那除了軍售商售之外我是希望說能夠把造建的合作也來可以換取這個關稅的減免\n\n04:40.933 --> 05:02.614\n美國總統川普在今年3月他宣布他要成立造建辦公室那這個造建辦公室已經移至預算管理局裡面他直接掌控的分配在美國的大安美法案中他的規模是430億美元那涉及的部分大家清清楚楚就是大量的零部件的採購那我想這個部分應該可以是在商售的部分\n\n05:03.274 --> 05:20.057\n也就是說我們跟美國他們這個造艦的計畫也好我們可以配合甚至是說我們自己本身也可以看到我們海巡單位其實是面臨中國的海警船的時候他們大噸位數量又多我們其實是可以做大量的採購的\n\n05:21.098 --> 05:41.281\n那在這個部分我是希望談判辦公室可不可以利用台灣在印太安全跟造艦供應鏈他的這個戰略的地位我們來去爭取來去購買也好或者是採購各種不同的這種裝備來去增加我們的談判籌碼這個是不是可以也納入考量\n\n05:43.106 --> 06:04.589\n好那個謝謝委員的這個提醒我想我各種的這個意見我都會吸回然後提供給我們談判小組那不過當然我相信大家也會看到像韓國確實他有特別提到他會在這個造船廠產業上面去宣布這些相關的投資這個看起來或許\n\n06:05.209 --> 06:28.344\n美國是可以接受類似這樣子的一個提議不過我想每一個國家跟美國的經貿關係產業結構不同那每個國家的產業優勢大概也有相異所以我想就台灣來說我們在這個造船造艦的產業上面當然可以把這個委員的意見一併吸回讓我們的談判小組來參考\n\n06:29.637 --> 06:56.013\n還有另外一點就是也不用就是好像是避而不談就是說大量的國防採購是不是也在本次的貿易談判裡面的框架之中我個人認為大量的國防採購那某種程度既可以緩解我們在農業部分不用這樣子浪利甚至犧牲我們的農業利益又能夠增強我的我國的國家安全的能量我認為這個是一個方向我不認為這是一個要避談\n\n06:57.194 --> 07:23.192\n如果能夠大量採購我們所需要的裝備來去爭取更好的稅率我覺得這是必須要為之的甚至其實也不是只有國防我們最近看到很多的其實以前是在離島但是現在開始甚至包含本島都有這樣的狀況就是中國的漁船在不斷地想要切或者是他用各種他們其他國籍偽造的這些相關的船隻想要來去\n\n07:24.193 --> 07:41.309\n傷害我們的海纜那其實建造這個海纜的修復船它其實是很貴的但是它又是必須要有的所以這一些的設備它是把它們納入之後我們可以去遊說那如果把這些納入之後又可以同時提升我們基礎設施的韌性跟造船產業的能量的話\n\n07:42.330 --> 08:10.200\n我認為也是可以維持的其實有很多事情是我們自己要創造籌碼那我相信在談判的過程中各個部位都在裡面但是我們可以多項溝通從交通部到國防部我們可以採購的我們能夠做的那又不會傷害到我們比較脆弱一點的產業的那就應該要這樣做那再來就是我們上週跟烏克蘭的國會議員這個可能要請教次長交流的時候他說台廠的這個無人機電池在中國的售價\n\n08:11.451 --> 08:28.105\n甚至比在台灣的售價還要便宜所以我必須強調我們一直說我們要挺烏克蘭要支持烏克蘭可是跟他們交流的時候發現到說奇怪我們怎麼這些我們的無人機的零件的這些市場的策略成本的結構跟供應鏈的漏洞其實都有出現這樣子的狀況市長你可不可以簡單回應一下\n\n08:29.372 --> 08:42.072\n是當然我們在跟這個尤其是包括烏克蘭在內啦其實我們做的更多的可能是在這個跟周邊的國家包括立陶宛包括拉脫維亞等等的這些國家\n\n08:42.657 --> 08:59.000\n那麼也有積極的在推廣我們的無人機那麼至於是說它在這個您說的這個烏克蘭這個訪團所反映的這個問題我們會進行了解但是說很多時候還是廠商的決定那重點在於是說其實量要出來\n\n09:00.821 --> 09:25.612\n這個是外交部要在努力的方向包括跟立陶宛包括跟拉脫維亞包括跟波蘭捷克是不是能夠推廣更多的合作像我們的無人機的產業訪問團在胡凱宏的董事長帶領之下我們也跟拉脫維亞跟立陶宛簽訂了合作的標準我們希望在這方面能夠拓展我們的商機\n\n09:26.432 --> 09:36.345\n能夠把單的量能夠做大然後能夠讓我們出口到這些國家的時候必去中國它的無人機的供應鏈\n\n09:37.233 --> 10:04.771\n那麼能夠來得好當然我們一定會做好把關的動作我們跟經濟部跟其他相關的部會配合相對於所謂的出口管制飛鴻供應鏈的這個我們也會做更多的我希望我們不要把一些關鍵的零組件然後被低價轉售到一定烏克蘭的敵對的市場那這個就是拿自己的資源來砸自己的腳這是不對的那這個一定要注重那再來就是跟烏克蘭的合作那外交部可能\n\n10:05.732 --> 10:25.459\n要扮演更重要的角色來去聯繫特別是跟他們的廠商產業企業跟我國怎麼樣把他接架起來還有幫他們的人員訓練因為他們是第一時間第一手就是應用這些新科技的那都必須在我們的無人機的戰略裡面上次我問國防部長無人機的戰略是什麼他說這個非常機敏他不願意\n\n10:26.599 --> 10:51.553\n透露不願意公開那我就手裡就拿著其他英國跟其他國家的這一個無人機的戰略那如果我們沒有戰略的思考那只是在這邊隨隨便便說這個也是涉及國家機密那就是走向不同的道路那這個不同的道路就會開始有很多的問題出來就像剛剛提到的為什麼我國我們台廠自己製造的這些東西竟然在中國更便宜還要透過想要購買我們的東西還要從中國的市場這樣子\n\n10:52.934 --> 10:59.382\n這個就是一個問題啊是那如果你戰略不透明完全同意不清晰那以後大家怎麼視從無以視從嘛對不對是謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.829,"end":31.779,"text":"是委員好市長好市長我們有沒有跟談判辦公室有非常密切的聯繫應該是說整個農業部都是談判的一個關鍵的核心農業部都是團隊的核心所以說在談判的過程中我們很清楚的讓整個談判過程都知道我們農業的底線是什麼應該沒有錯吧"},{"start":34.105,"end":47.781,"text":"應該說農業部就農業要考量的絕對會清楚的讓整個談判團隊知道對 因為剛才聽起來有些時候有些場合農業部的官員不見得是在這個談判的過程裡面"},{"start":48.602,"end":63.506,"text":"那其實在條約的這一個不管是條約也好或者是這個框架也好那有些時候不是每一個部會都會到期所以讓每一個關鍵的談判代表 談判副代表能夠知道我們農業部的底線非常重要"},{"start":63.786,"end":91.685,"text":"特別要講這件事情的原因是因為像是雞肉豬肉是不是會進一步的這個放寬進口限制或者是擴大這個進口的可能性是否會要求不另外標示原產地等等這些可能我們不知道因為現在還在談判的過程中但有可能都會在談判裡面成為他的一部分可能會被犧牲的部分那我們作為農業縣的立法委員我是絕對希望是農業部要全力要傳達給我們負責的代表們"},{"start":94.046,"end":122.807,"text":"這是我們要堅定的一些底線那還有稻米啊稻米包含日本其實在這一次他們的談判過程中也是受到很嚴重的這個影響所以我一直在強調不管是美國的這些各個不同的農產品那他們這種大量的接近農業工業化的生產那其實是對我國的各個品項我剛剛講到不管是豬不管是雞不管是這些稻米等等都會有嚴重性的打擊"},{"start":123.513,"end":140.564,"text":"那加上我們這幾次的這些嚴重的災害已經有很大部分的尼龍潮也就是說青龍是慢慢的沒有辦法去接受這樣天然災害帶來的損害跟他們財務上面的損失所以這全部都是環環相扣的所以這一次的災害的條例裡面我一直在強調說"},{"start":142.225,"end":161.965,"text":"除了這個農損的部分之外還有這些外銷的獎勵金融的支持都必須在納入本次的範圍裡面因為這是雙重的打擊天災加上可能的這種關稅的影響那美國他是長期享有我們的這個順差29億美元所以在這個部分"},{"start":163.275,"end":181.752,"text":"這個美國優先不是我們優先我們台灣是優先的在這個狀況之下我們更要具體力證所以這邊我跟次長講就拜託你肯定要把這個訊息要讓整個談判的代表們代表團都很清楚的知道那包含副院長那他的這一個"},{"start":183.086,"end":205.425,"text":"跟他的對話裡面都要堅守這個底線因為台灣不是只有台積電一個產業嘛台積電獨好跟其他的產業是必須要共榮才對啊那我們不可能犧牲弱勢的產業來去成就一個強勢的產業啊我們就是這個均衡台灣裡面是每個人要往前走一步不是一個人走一百步啊那現在看起來是產業面的話一片大好"},{"start":206.346,"end":226.721,"text":"但是都是在最高科技的产业是最具优势的产业那它的好怎么样能够来把它的这个它的荣耀也好它的利润也好怎么有办法分给我们其他比较弱势的农业呢这个都是我们必须要考量的部分那再来我们邀请这个副总裁麦代表谢谢委员委员好"},{"start":233.823,"end":253.437,"text":"副代表好 那現在都還是在爭取關稅減免當中那所以剛才聽到很多的委員們的質詢其實我都可以理解因為現在就還在討論當中那既然有保密條約我們就我不要問內部的細節但是我要強調我們可以怎麼樣擴大我們的籌碼"},{"start":254.338,"end":278.949,"text":"那不要犧牲弱勢但是我們可以用我們可以做的產業我們可以做的採購來去增加我們的談判的能量那有人說是不是把安全的考量國防的這些採購也納入剛才聽次長要不次長你有說說只有軍售的不算商售的部分算那除了軍售商售之外我是希望說能夠把造建的合作也來可以換取這個關稅的減免"},{"start":280.933,"end":302.614,"text":"美國總統川普在今年3月他宣布他要成立造建辦公室那這個造建辦公室已經移至預算管理局裡面他直接掌控的分配在美國的大安美法案中他的規模是430億美元那涉及的部分大家清清楚楚就是大量的零部件的採購那我想這個部分應該可以是在商售的部分"},{"start":303.274,"end":320.057,"text":"也就是說我們跟美國他們這個造艦的計畫也好我們可以配合甚至是說我們自己本身也可以看到我們海巡單位其實是面臨中國的海警船的時候他們大噸位 數量又多我們其實是可以做大量的採購的"},{"start":321.098,"end":341.281,"text":"那在這個部分我是希望談判辦公室可不可以利用台灣在印太安全跟造艦供應鏈他的這個戰略的地位我們來去爭取來去購買也好或者是採購各種不同的這種裝備來去增加我們的談判籌碼這個是不是可以也納入考量"},{"start":343.106,"end":364.589,"text":"好那個謝謝委員的這個提醒我想我各種的這個意見我都會吸回然後提供給我們談判小組那不過當然我相信大家也會看到像韓國確實他有特別提到他會在這個造船廠產業上面去宣布這些相關的投資這個看起來或許"},{"start":365.209,"end":388.344,"text":"美國是可以接受類似這樣子的一個提議不過我想每一個國家跟美國的經貿關係產業結構不同那每個國家的產業優勢大概也有相異所以我想就台灣來說我們在這個造船造艦的產業上面當然可以把這個委員的意見一併吸回讓我們的談判小組來參考"},{"start":389.637,"end":416.013,"text":"還有另外一點就是也不用就是好像是避而不談就是說大量的國防採購是不是也在本次的貿易談判裡面的框架之中我個人認為大量的國防採購那某種程度既可以緩解我們在農業部分不用這樣子浪利甚至犧牲我們的農業利益又能夠增強我的我國的國家安全的能量我認為這個是一個方向我不認為這是一個要避談"},{"start":417.194,"end":443.192,"text":"如果能夠大量採購我們所需要的裝備來去爭取更好的稅率我覺得這是必須要為之的甚至其實也不是只有國防我們最近看到很多的其實以前是在離島但是現在開始甚至包含本島都有這樣的狀況就是中國的漁船在不斷地想要切或者是他用各種他們其他國籍偽造的這些相關的船隻想要來去"},{"start":444.193,"end":461.309,"text":"傷害我們的海纜那其實建造這個海纜的修復船它其實是很貴的但是它又是必須要有的所以這一些的設備它是把它們納入之後我們可以去遊說那如果把這些納入之後又可以同時提升我們基礎設施的韌性跟造船產業的能量的話"},{"start":462.33,"end":490.2,"text":"我認為也是可以維持的其實有很多事情是我們自己要創造籌碼那我相信在談判的過程中各個部位都在裡面但是我們可以多項溝通從交通部到國防部我們可以採購的我們能夠做的那又不會傷害到我們比較脆弱一點的產業的那就應該要這樣做那再來就是我們上週跟烏克蘭的國會議員這個可能要請教次長交流的時候他說台廠的這個無人機電池在中國的售價"},{"start":491.451,"end":508.105,"text":"甚至比在台灣的售價還要便宜所以我必須強調我們一直說我們要挺烏克蘭要支持烏克蘭可是跟他們交流的時候發現到說奇怪我們怎麼這些我們的無人機的零件的這些市場的策略成本的結構跟供應鏈的漏洞其實都有出現這樣子的狀況市長你可不可以簡單回應一下"},{"start":509.372,"end":522.072,"text":"是當然我們在跟這個尤其是包括烏克蘭在內啦其實我們做的更多的可能是在這個跟周邊的國家包括立陶宛包括拉脫維亞等等的這些國家"},{"start":522.657,"end":539,"text":"那麼也有積極的在推廣我們的無人機那麼至於是說它在這個您說的這個烏克蘭這個訪團所反映的這個問題我們會進行了解但是說很多時候還是廠商的決定那重點在於是說其實量要出來"},{"start":540.821,"end":565.612,"text":"這個是外交部要在努力的方向包括跟立陶宛 包括跟拉脫維亞 包括跟波蘭捷克是不是能夠推廣更多的合作像我們的無人機的產業訪問團在胡凱宏的董事長帶領之下我們也跟拉脫維亞 跟立陶宛簽訂了合作的標準我們希望在這方面能夠拓展我們的商機"},{"start":566.432,"end":576.345,"text":"能夠把單的量能夠做大然後能夠讓我們出口到這些國家的時候必去中國它的無人機的供應鏈"},{"start":577.233,"end":604.771,"text":"那麼能夠來得好當然我們一定會做好把關的動作我們跟經濟部跟其他相關的部會配合相對於所謂的出口管制飛鴻供應鏈的這個我們也會做更多的我希望我們不要把一些關鍵的零組件然後被低價轉售到一定烏克蘭的敵對的市場那這個就是拿自己的資源來砸自己的腳這是不對的那這個一定要注重那再來就是跟烏克蘭的合作那外交部可能"},{"start":605.732,"end":625.459,"text":"要扮演更重要的角色來去聯繫特別是跟他們的廠商產業企業跟我國怎麼樣把他接架起來還有幫他們的人員訓練因為他們是第一時間第一手就是應用這些新科技的那都必須在我們的無人機的戰略裡面上次我問國防部長無人機的戰略是什麼他說這個非常機敏他不願意"},{"start":626.599,"end":651.553,"text":"透露不願意公開那我就手裡就拿著其他英國跟其他國家的這一個無人機的戰略那如果我們沒有戰略的思考那只是在這邊隨隨便便說這個也是涉及國家機密那就是走向不同的道路那這個不同的道路就會開始有很多的問題出來就像剛剛提到的為什麼我國我們台廠自己製造的這些東西竟然在中國更便宜還要透過想要購買我們的東西還要從中國的市場這樣子"},{"start":652.934,"end":659.382,"text":"這個就是一個問題啊是那如果你戰略不透明完全同意不清晰那以後大家怎麼視從無以視從嘛對不對是謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":599,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（11時46分）先請農業部次長。"],["杜次長文珍：是，委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：次長好。次長，我們有沒有跟談判辦公室有非常密切的聯繫？"],["杜次長文珍：應該是說，整個農業部都是談判的……"],["陳委員冠廷：談判的關鍵核心嘛！"],["杜次長文珍：農業部都是團隊的核心。"],["陳委員冠廷：是團隊的核心，所以說在談判的過程中，我們很清楚地讓整個談判過程都知道我們農業的底線是什麼，應該沒有錯吧！"],["杜次長文珍：應該說農業部就農業要考量的，絕對會清楚地讓整個談判團隊知道。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，剛才聽起來有些時候、有些場合，農業部的官員不見得是在這個談判的過程裡面，其實不管是條約也好，或者是框架也好，有些時候不是每一個部會都會到齊，所以讓每一個關鍵的談判代表，包含副代表，能夠知道我們農業部的底線非常重要。我特別要講這件事情的原因，是因為像雞肉、豬肉是不是會進一步放寬進口限制，或者是擴大進口的可能性？是否會要求不另外標示原產地等等，這些我們不知道，因為現在還在談判的過程中，但有可能都會在談判裡面成為被犧牲的部分。作為農業縣的立法委員，我是絕對希望農業部要全力傳達給負責的代表們，這是我們要堅定的一些底線，還有稻米啊！包含日本，其實在這一次他們的談判過程中，也是受到很嚴重的影響。","所以我一直在強調，不管是美國這些各個不同的農產品，他們那種大量接近農業工業化的生產，其實是對我國的各個品項，我剛剛講到，不管是豬、不管是雞、不管是稻米等等，都會有嚴重性的打擊。加上我們這幾次這些嚴重的災害，已經有很大部分的離農潮；也就是說，青農慢慢的沒有辦法接受這樣的天然災害帶來的損害，跟他們財務上面的損失，所以這全部都是環環相扣的。這一次的災害條例裡面，我一直在強調，除了農損的部分之外，還有外銷的獎勵、金融的支持，都必須納入本次的範圍裡面，因為這是雙重的打擊──天災加上可能的關稅影響。","美國是長期享有我們順差29億美元，所以在這個部分是美國優先，不是我們優先，我們臺灣是優先的，在這個狀況之下，我們更要據理力爭，所以在這邊我跟次長講，拜託你，肯定要把這個訊息讓整個談判代表們、代表團都很清楚地知道，包含副院長，跟他的對話裡面都要堅守這個底線。因為臺灣不是只有台積電一個產業，台積電獨好，跟其他的產業是必須要共榮才對啊！我們不可能犧牲弱勢的產業來去成就一個強勢的產業，在均衡臺灣裡面，是每個人要往前走的，不是一個人走100步，現在看起來是產業面一片大好，但那都是最高科技的產業、是最具優勢的產業，這些好要怎麼樣能夠把它的榮耀也好、它的利潤也好，有辦法分給其他比較弱勢的農業呢？這個都是我們必須要考量的部分。","再來邀請副總談判代表。"],["杜次長文珍：謝謝委員。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：副代表好。現在都還是在爭取關稅減免當中，剛才聽到很多委員們的質詢，其實我都可以理解，因為現在還在討論當中，既然有保密條約，我就不問內部的細節，但是我要強調，我們可以怎麼樣擴大我們的籌碼？不要犧牲弱勢，但是我們可以用我們可以做的產業、我們可以做的採購，來去增加我們的談判能量。有人說是不是把安全的考量、國防的採購也納入？剛才聽外交部次長說只有軍售的不算，商售的部分算，除了軍售、商售之外，我是希望能夠把造艦的合作換取關稅的減免。","美國總統川普在今年3月宣布要成立造艦辦公室，這個造艦辦公室已經移至預算管理局，直接掌控分配，在美國的大而美法案中，它的規模是430億美元，涉及的部分，大家聽清楚，就是大量的零部件的採購，我想這個部分應該是可以在商售的部分；也就是說，我們跟美國的造艦計畫也好，我們可以配合，甚至是說我們自己本身，我們可以看到海巡單位在面臨中國海警船的時候，他們大噸位，數量又多，我們其實是可以大量採購的。在這個部分，我是希望談判辦公室可不可以利用臺灣在印太安全跟造艦供應鏈這個戰略的地位，我們去爭取、去購買也好，或者是採購各種不同的裝備，增加我們的談判籌碼，這個是不是可以也納入考量？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：謝謝委員的提醒，各種的意見我都會攜回，然後提供給我們談判小組，當然我相信，大家也都看到，像韓國確實特別提到會在造船產業上面宣布這些相關投資，看起來或許美國是可以接受類似這樣子的一個提議，不過每一個國家跟美國的經貿關係、產業結構不同，每個國家的產業優勢大概也相異，所以我想就臺灣來說，我們在造船、造艦的產業上面當然可以把委員的意見一併攜回讓我們的談判小組參考。"],["陳委員冠廷：還有另外一點就是也不用好像避而不談，大量的國防採購是不是也在本次貿易談判的框架之中？我個人認為，大量的國防採購某種程度其實可以緩解我們在農業部分不用這樣子讓利，甚至犧牲我們的農業利益，又能夠增強我國國家安全的能量，我認為這個是一個方向，我不認為這是要避談的，如果能夠大量採購我們所需要的裝備去爭取更好的稅率，我覺得這是必須要為之的。甚至其實也不是只有國防，我們最近看到很多以前是發生在離島，但是現在甚至包含本島都有這樣的狀況，就是中國的漁船或他們用其他國籍偽造的相關船隻不斷地想要破壞我們的海纜，建造海纜的修復船其實是很貴的，但是它又是必須要有的，所以在把這些設備納入之後，我們可以去遊說，如果把這些納入之後，又可以同時提升我們基礎設施的韌性跟造船產業能量的話，我認為也是可以為之的。其實有很多事情是我們自己要創造籌碼，那我相信在談判的過程中，各個部會都在裡面，但是我們可以多向溝通，從交通部到國防部，我們可以採購的，我們能夠做的，又不會傷害到我們比較脆弱一點的產業，那就應該要這樣做。","再來，這個問題可能要請教次長，就是我們上週跟烏克蘭的國會議員交流的時候，他說臺廠的無人機電池在中國的售價甚至比在臺灣的售價還要便宜，我必須強調，我們一直說我們要挺烏克蘭、要支持烏克蘭，可是在跟他們交流的時候卻發現很奇怪，就是我們無人機零件市場的策略、成本的結構跟供應鏈的漏洞其實都有出現這樣子的狀況，次長，你可不可以簡單回應一下？"],["陳次長明祺：是，當然我們有在跟烏克蘭合作，其實我們做得更多的可能是對周邊的立陶宛、拉脫維亞等國家也有積極的在推廣我們的無人機。至於您說的烏克蘭訪團所反映的這個問題，我們會進行了解，但是在很多時候還是廠商的決定，其實重點就在於量要出來，這個是外交部要再努力的方向，就是包括對立陶宛、拉脫維亞、波蘭、捷克是不是能夠推廣更多的合作，像我們的這個無人機產業訪問團在胡開宏董事長的帶領之下，我們也跟拉脫維亞、立陶宛簽訂了合作的備忘錄，我們希望在這方面能夠拓展我們的商機，能夠把訂單的量做大，然後能夠讓我們在出口到這些國家的時候比去中國的無人機供應鏈來得好。當然，我們一定會做好把關的動作，我們跟經濟部還有其他相關的部會配合，對於所謂的出口管制還有非紅供應鏈，我們也會做更多的努力。"],["陳委員冠廷：我希望我們不要讓一些關鍵的零組件被低價轉售到烏克蘭的敵對市場，因為這個就是拿自己的資源來砸自己的腳，這是不對的，對這個一定要注重。"],["陳次長明祺：是，委員的提醒很對。"],["陳委員冠廷：再來就是跟烏克蘭的合作，外交部可能要扮演更重要的角色去聯繫，特別是我國怎麼樣跟他們的廠商、產業、企業進行接洽，還有包含他們的人員訓練，因為他們是第一時間、第一手應用這些新科技的，所以都必須在我們的無人機戰略裡面。"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：上次我問國防部長無人機的戰略是什麼，他說這個非常機敏，他不願意透露，不願意公開，那我手裡就拿著英國跟其他國家的無人機戰略，如果我們沒有戰略的思考，只是在這邊隨隨便便說這個也是涉及國家機密，那就是走向不同的道路，這個不同道路就會開始有很多的問題出來，就像剛剛提到的，為什麼我們臺廠自己製造的這些東西竟然在中國更便宜，想要購買我們的東西還要從中國的市場這樣子，這個就是一個問題啊！"],["陳次長明祺：是，完全同意。"],["陳委員冠廷：如果你的戰略不透明、不清晰，那以後大家要怎麼做？無所適從嘛！對不對？"],["陳次長明祺：是，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員的質詢。","接下來由蘇清泉委員上臺質詢，蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員不在。","張啓楷委員上臺質詢，張啓楷委員、張啓楷委員、張啓楷不在。","我們請林憶君委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-25","speakers":["黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","賴士葆","林倩綺","黃國昌","陳冠廷","林憶君","林楚茵","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-14"],"gazette_id":"1147301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、經濟部次長、財政部次長、農業部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表\n報告「因應台美關稅及國際局勢變化台美關係互動情形，暨俄烏戰事與以哈衝突外交援助概\n況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147301_00001"}}}