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\"end\": 109.584, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 109.584, \"end\": 109.944, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"署\", \"start\": 109.944, \"end\": 110.425, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 110.425, \"end\": 110.565, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 110.565, \"end\": 110.725, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 110.725, \"end\": 110.745, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"偵\"}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}]}, {\"start\": 112.006, \"end\": 140.809, \"text\": \"那但是其他的部分可能細節需要釐清那好像今天這個司法院這邊台中電有發過新聞稿說這個依照台中電院的新聞稿可能要請司法院來補充就是說這個這位這個民眾他其實是以這個公司的這一個公司員工 受雇員工的身份所以他並不是辯護律師對 他有沒有 他到底有沒有\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 112.006, \"end\": 112.266, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 112.266, \"end\": 112.446, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 112.446, \"end\": 112.687, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 112.687, \"end\": 112.807, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"他\", 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\"職\"}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 144.017, \"end\": 144.178, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 144.178, \"end\": 144.699, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"需\", \"start\": 144.699, \"end\": 144.819, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 144.819, \"end\": 145.1, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"釐\"}, {\"word\": \"清\", \"start\": 145.1, \"end\": 145.702, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 145.702, \"end\": 146.063, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 146.063, \"end\": 146.203, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 146.203, \"end\": 146.364, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 146.364, \"end\": 146.625, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"審\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 146.625, \"end\": 146.966, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"程\", \"start\": 146.966, \"end\": 147.106, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 147.106, \"end\": 147.507, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"尊\", \"start\": 147.507, \"end\": 147.728, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 147.728, \"end\": 148.009, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 148.009, \"end\": 148.069, \"score\": 0.667}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 148.069, \"end\": 148.089, \"score\": 0.881}]}, {\"start\": 149.051, \"end\": 171.065, \"text\": \"所以個案你們有掌握司法院也有掌握這個狀況嘛對不對好就個案的部分我認為要清楚了解事實然後要讓社會清楚的說明現在的律師法對於中國律師可不可以在台灣執業是沒有規範的港澳條例22條有規範是可以允許但是要向法務部申請但兩岸條例是沒有規範的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 149.051, \"end\": 149.171, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 149.171, \"end\": 149.511, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 149.511, \"end\": 149.711, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 149.711, \"end\": 149.932, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 149.932, \"end\": 150.112, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": 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\"範\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 164.421, \"end\": 165.021, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"港\", \"start\": 165.021, \"end\": 165.141, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"澳\", \"start\": 165.141, \"end\": 165.442, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"例\", \"start\": 165.442, \"end\": 166.082, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 166.082, \"end\": 166.963, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 166.963, \"end\": 167.123, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 167.123, \"end\": 167.243, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 167.243, \"end\": 167.343, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"允\", \"start\": 167.343, \"end\": 167.563, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"許\", \"start\": 167.563, \"end\": 167.743, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 167.743, \"end\": 167.903, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 167.903, \"end\": 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00:00:55,721\n對於總預算做出了一些很大的一些前置跟干擾好不容易加薪的3%居然是在今年5月才發放到加薪的公務人員的手上請在野黨的委員一再的要求加薪加薪加薪的同時也應當去思考在總預算的審議當中不要為難自己國家的總預算次長請\n\n4\n00:00:59,203 --> 00:01:28,346\n因為這個社群上有個重要的新聞我認為是需要澄清一下那我收到了蠻多律師界的反應那昨天在台中地院那赫然發現有一位中國籍的律師擔任了訴訟代理人嗎我沒有進一步的訊息只是看到這樣子的一個新聞讓我們赫然認為要去檢視一下法規那就這個個案法務部應當趕快去了解那事實的狀況是如何\n\n5\n00:01:28,986 --> 00:01:50,745\n好各位委員報告首先這個案子因為我們昨天晚上只看到這個民眾在社群媒體上的發言其實詳細事實如何我們其實並不清楚那看他所講的這個內容呢疑似有可能違反律師法120條規定所以目前這個台中地檢署會去依法偵辦\n\n6\n00:01:52,006 --> 00:02:20,809\n那但是其他的部分可能細節需要釐清那好像今天這個司法院這邊台中電有發過新聞稿說這個依照台中電院的新聞稿可能要請司法院來補充就是說這個這位這個民眾他其實是以這個公司的這一個公司員工受雇員工的身份所以他並不是辯護律師對他有沒有他到底有沒有\n\n7\n00:02:21,650 --> 00:02:28,089\n用這個律師的身份來執行律師職務我覺得這個還需要釐清那法院的審理過程我們會尊重以上\n\n8\n00:02:29,051 --> 00:02:51,065\n所以個案你們有掌握司法院也有掌握這個狀況嘛對不對好就個案的部分我認為要清楚了解事實然後要讓社會清楚的說明現在的律師法對於中國律師可不可以在台灣執業是沒有規範的港澳條例22條有規範是可以允許但是要向法務部申請但兩岸條例是沒有規範的\n\n9\n00:02:52,746 --> 00:03:20,106\n兩案條例是沒有規範的所以說從這個個案來講當然釐清事實是一個重點但後續也給我們立法委員一個好的方向我們好好去就這個方面來處理那我問一下如果外國律師在台灣執業他申請的程序是什麼是依照律師法115條的規定外國律師非經法務部許可並於許可後六個月內加入律師公會不得執行職務但是當然他有一些例外的情形\n\n10\n00:03:21,106 --> 00:03:49,805\n所以看来外国律师事务所的申请跟港澳条例22条是一样的我们刚刚讲的是外国律师对我知道那事务所的话是在120条的规定好那我了解了那后续这个部分我们好好在法治面去思考一下但这个个案要掌握好吗那不要让舆论大家有很多的以而传而的状况好谢谢次郎请回好谁行政不中立呢请那个全序部我们师部长下一页\n\n11\n00:03:51,864 --> 00:04:09,598\n翁小玲委員已經離席了很可惜喔要不然我想請她可以在場一起分享一下我用她的魔法打敗她到底誰適合適用行政中立法很清楚嘛來部長誰適用行政中立法剛剛她一直在說賴清德總統\n\n12\n00:04:10,879 --> 00:04:33,819\n在民進黨的中常會針對核三研議的公投表達了他會去投票這件事情你剛講得很清楚他如果在民進黨的中常會以黨主席的身份這也沒有問題事實上公民投票他在進行的是一個政策政務人員對於政策表達他的政策立場這也是他的職責不是嗎是的\n\n13\n00:04:34,099 --> 00:05:02,660\n否則所有的政務人員跟政策相關的事情有公投存在他不能表達他的政策立場那誰為政策負責了呢我想還包括不同的民選行政首長可能也都有不同所以我要用汪小玲的魔法打敗他就是如果賴慶的總統不能夠對於核三研議公投表達他的立場的話那蔣萬安怎麼可以跟黃國昌見面的時候他說支持核三研議公投呢\n\n14\n00:05:03,689 --> 00:05:21,308\n如果賴清德不行那為什麼盧秀燕可以說核三研議公投是給人民一個新的選項所以同樣的道理政務人員本於政策表達他的政策觀點第一個他沒有違法第二個我認為這就是政務人員的\n\n15\n00:05:23,170 --> 00:05:46,895\n責任不是嗎所以中央跟地方適用的是同樣一個法律當國民黨的委員一直認為賴清德不可以就是賴清德不可以那麼去問一問為什麼蔣萬安可以為什麼盧秀燕可以我們也不要講因為政黨的關係你的政黨可以我的政黨不可以我們也不要流入黨派之爭就對於公民投票他進行的是對於政策的討論\n\n16\n00:05:47,955 --> 00:06:16,548\n政務人員對於政策討論公共事務表達立場合作之有對不對下一頁早上陳培宇委員跟您討論過這個問題行政中立法規範的是我們的公務從業同仁對於人民的表意自由不是規範的對象嘛對不對所以立法院來針對來受訪陳情的民眾身上別了一個\n\n17\n00:06:17,788 --> 00:06:40,147\n對於罷免的意見表達的撕帶都禁止帶入立法院那立法院不正是應當歡迎不同的意見進入的民主殿堂嗎你認為立法院用違反行政中立來禁止公民的飄帶別在他的身上進入立法院這是不是大有問題\n\n18\n00:06:41,235 --> 00:06:58,573\n我早上有說過立法院是一個代表民主政治的一個殿堂它有公共空間的部分有屬於純辦公就公務人辦公的部分所以如果做這樣一個區隔就會比較好理解但事實上公務人員行政中立法不適用於人民啊不是嗎\n\n19\n00:07:00,430 --> 00:07:28,745\n那我要再用翁小林委員的魔法打敗他右邊這個圖是韓國瑜院長拿著一個這麼大的標語說要不同意罷免這麼大的標語可以拿在立法院的議場前面表達韓國瑜院長跟國民黨立委的意見如果這是可以的話那人民一個小小的50公分的絲帶要被禁止\n\n20\n00:07:29,785 --> 00:07:56,364\n這不是很奇怪嗎我接著問韓國瑜院長可不可以針對公投表達他的意見當然可以嘛對不對所以說汪小玲剛剛說賴清德不可以那就大有問題了基於公共政策的討論如果汪小玲委員認為賴清德不可以那請韓國瑜院長針對核三研議公投最好閉嘴不要講任何一句話因為這是國民黨的汪小玲要求的\n\n21\n00:07:57,372 --> 00:08:23,788\n政務人員就針對政策表達立場合作之有呢完全沒有違反行政中立的問題不是嗎那一個更大的諷刺最意識不中立的韓國瑜最政治不中立的韓國瑜國民黨的委員可以容忍對於人民一個小小的絲帶卻要禁止他這是大有問題的不要雙標至此啊來下一頁\n\n22\n00:08:25,276 --> 00:08:40,083\n行政部中立在這一次這段時間我們好好來檢視找出對的方向下一頁洩露民眾的個資來遂行國民黨委員發起的國民黨部發起的惡霸\n\n23\n00:08:42,226 --> 00:08:55,517\n違反行政中立被司法認證的而且自己認罪的基隆市的民政處長用個資來幫助國民黨連署罷免有沒有違反行政中立\n\n24\n00:08:58,393 --> 00:09:17,258\n已經被判了嘛對不對司法也認證了嘛花蓮市的民政處長明良珍也違反了各司法違反的行政中立濫用行政權限來替個別政黨進行罷免的事宜也清楚的違反行政中立嘛對不對也被判刑嘛他也認罪了下一頁\n\n25\n00:09:18,564 --> 00:09:30,991\n好這是一個新的面向要跟您討論這一次也發生了各縣市有一些反罷免的文宣被塞入了他是夾帶著這個選舉公報進入社區\n\n26\n00:09:35,493 --> 00:09:57,683\n那當然這個案在桃園有在花蓮有我們希望他不是一個通案啦不要成為這種大家有樣學樣這個違法的樣態但是我們從這個事件當中看到的是這些反罷文宣可以跟著投票通知單進入家戶這有沒有涉及違反行政中立我想他應該是跟選舉罷免法有關吧好下一頁選舉罷免法沒錯好\n\n27\n00:10:04,887 --> 00:10:11,195\n這是一個我們要跟欸內政部有代表來嗎或是中選會還是內政部中選會好了\n\n28\n00:10:13,598 --> 00:10:36,161\n我們來就這個新生的樣態好好來探討就發生在桃園跟花蓮的選舉公報夾帶反罷免的文宣這件事多數的厲害相關人也就是這些反罷的國民黨立委的當事人都說他們不知情這是李林長自己可能假婆啦或是不知道啦\n\n29\n00:10:37,242 --> 00:11:05,080\n诶主委不管是行政中立法是全序部管的或者是公務人員選罷法裡面針對夾帶這種文宣可能選舉也會發生公統也會發生其實它的規範是不明確的李領長現在是不受行政中立法規範對不對部長不受嘛李領長不受嘛但是李領長有沒有受公務人員選罷法的規範主委他們並不是我們所謂的選務工作人員\n\n30\n00:11:05,942 --> 00:11:35,044\n所以呢可以嗎可以這樣嗎這種行為當然在我們選務上是不中立的嘛我們每一次都是苦口婆心提醒大家從這個個案我們就看到我們法規要精進下一頁我建議針對公職人員選舉罷免法的增訂45條之一很清楚的來明定各級選委會或鄉鎮市公所所委託負責發放選舉公報或者是投票通知單之人員\n\n31\n00:11:36,005 --> 00:12:01,821\n不得有下列行為就是幫忙塞一些東西啦這些有特定的選舉或或是政黨議事的相關資料或物品或者是利用發放機會去口頭的宣傳啦去支持特定候選人或者是罷免案或是公投案等等這些東西如果我們試著在公職人員選辦法裡頭來增訂其實就很明確讓李林長知道你不可以\n\n32\n00:12:02,842 --> 00:12:14,320\n包括有規定也要有法則我也一併的提出110條第一項如果違反了剛剛所說的幫忙夾帶一些文宣在選舉公報應當中立的事項裡頭他沒有中立\n\n33\n00:12:17,031 --> 00:12:43,908\n也定於罰則就是現在的10萬以上100萬以下您同不同意這樣更明確我們尊重其實即便是在還沒完成立法之前我們這部分還是會加強宣導你們加強宣導一定要加強宣導但事實上就是有一些人惡意的濫用法律的漏洞他說我不知道啦我不是故意的啦還是那是別人做的不是我啦熱心民眾為之啦\n\n34\n00:12:45,270 --> 00:13:03,081\n我認為法律明確比較重要其實現在要做這種這個夾帶的行為的話是絕對逃不過民眾的眼睛是所以這一次罷免的過程當中國民黨的特定候選人被罷的候選人發生這種事情社會才很快的進行反制嘛\n\n35\n00:13:03,601 --> 00:13:21,559\n以至於能夠抑制他大量的被有樣學樣被影響了罷免投票的中立嘛我現在說的剛好個案是發生在國民黨的特定被罷免的委員的選區但我們在制度的解釋他應當適用於任何的政黨\n\n36\n00:13:22,359 --> 00:13:49,257\n適用於任何的選舉者適用於所有的人因為法律就是不分黨派它規範的是一個該中立就中立該守法就守法所以我們今天在這裡釐清了李林長確實不受行政中立法的規範當然我也想過要不要把他納入啦但是李林長本身納入的姿勢體大李林長本身有黨籍他也是政務人員不是嗎李林長也會陪著我們可能一起參加活動\n\n37\n00:13:52,299 --> 00:14:10,468\n所以說不要為了規範某些事情就做了不合宜的規範但是對於公職人員選罷法的修訂可以很明確的把夾帶一些選舉意圖特定政黨的東西把它防堵起來我希望後續大家都可以一起來支持好嗎\n\n38\n00:14:11,408 --> 00:14:35,788\n好辛苦大家好謝謝大家那再一次提醒喔不要永遠是只要賴清德都不可以蔣萬安盧秀燕都可以我們是同一個國家是用同樣的法律不管是行政中立議事中立政治中立規範的都是同樣的不同政黨的人都要受到規範我要在這裡再一次的清楚的強調而不是選擇性的來守法\n\n39\n00:14:38,871 --> 00:14:42,279\n對不同異己的人就施以不合理的規定好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t9656\t所有登記方案委員 請大家結束為止好 我們請吳思耀委員發言謝謝主席來 我先請法務部次長麻煩次長\n12062\t32368\t但我要提醒一下公務人員加薪這件事情目前政策還沒拍板那我提醒一下國民黨的委員那今年很早就已經2025年加薪嘛那當時在立法院審議總預算的時候為什麼Pending到5月才把加薪發下去是因為在野黨的委員\n34608\t55721\t對於總預算做出了一些很大的一些前置跟干擾好不容易加薪的3%居然是在今年5月才發放到加薪的公務人員的手上請在野黨的委員一再的要求加薪加薪加薪的同時也應當去思考在總預算的審議當中不要為難自己國家的總預算次長請\n59203\t88346\t因為這個社群上有個重要的新聞我認為是需要澄清一下那我收到了蠻多律師界的反應那昨天在台中地院那赫然發現有一位中國籍的律師擔任了訴訟代理人嗎我沒有進一步的訊息只是看到這樣子的一個新聞讓我們赫然認為要去檢視一下法規那就這個個案法務部應當趕快去了解那事實的狀況是如何\n88986\t110745\t好 各位委員報告 首先這個案子因為我們昨天晚上只看到這個民眾在社群媒體上的發言其實詳細事實如何我們其實並不清楚那看他所講的這個內容呢疑似有可能違反律師法120條規定所以目前這個台中地檢署會去依法偵辦\n112006\t140809\t那但是其他的部分可能細節需要釐清那好像今天這個司法院這邊台中電有發過新聞稿說這個依照台中電院的新聞稿可能要請司法院來補充就是說這個這位這個民眾他其實是以這個公司的這一個公司員工 受雇員工的身份所以他並不是辯護律師對 他有沒有 他到底有沒有\n141650\t148089\t用這個律師的身份來執行律師職務我覺得這個還需要釐清那法院的審理過程我們會尊重 以上\n149051\t171065\t所以個案你們有掌握司法院也有掌握這個狀況嘛對不對好就個案的部分我認為要清楚了解事實然後要讓社會清楚的說明現在的律師法對於中國律師可不可以在台灣執業是沒有規範的港澳條例22條有規範是可以允許但是要向法務部申請但兩岸條例是沒有規範的\n172746\t200106\t兩案條例是沒有規範的所以說從這個個案來講當然釐清事實是一個重點但後續也給我們立法委員一個好的方向我們好好去就這個方面來處理那我問一下如果外國律師在台灣執業他申請的程序是什麼是依照律師法115條的規定外國律師非經法務部許可並於許可後六個月內加入律師公會不得執行職務但是當然他有一些例外的情形\n201106\t229805\t所以看来外国律师事务所的申请跟港澳条例22条是一样的我们刚刚讲的是外国律师对我知道那事务所的话是在120条的规定好那我了解了那后续这个部分我们好好在法治面去思考一下但这个个案要掌握好吗那不要让舆论大家有很多的以而传而的状况好谢谢次郎请回好谁行政不中立呢请那个全序部我们师部长下一页\n231864\t249598\t翁小玲委員已經離席了很可惜喔要不然我想請她可以在場一起分享一下我用她的魔法打敗她到底誰適合適用行政中立法很清楚嘛來 部長誰適用行政中立法剛剛她一直在說賴清德總統\n250879\t273819\t在民進黨的中常會針對核三研議的公投表達了他會去投票這件事情你剛講得很清楚他如果在民進黨的中常會以黨主席的身份這也沒有問題事實上公民投票他在進行的是一個政策政務人員對於政策表達他的政策立場這也是他的職責不是嗎是的\n274099\t302660\t否則所有的政務人員跟政策相關的事情有公投存在他不能表達他的政策立場那誰為政策負責了呢我想還包括不同的民選行政首長可能也都有不同所以我要用汪小玲的魔法打敗他就是如果賴慶的總統不能夠對於核三研議公投表達他的立場的話那蔣萬安怎麼可以跟黃國昌見面的時候他說支持核三研議公投呢\n303689\t321308\t如果賴清德不行 那為什麼盧秀燕可以說核三研議公投是給人民一個新的選項所以同樣的道理政務人員本於政策表達他的政策觀點第一個 他沒有違法第二個 我認為這就是政務人員的\n323170\t346895\t責任不是嗎所以中央跟地方適用的是同樣一個法律當國民黨的委員一直認為賴清德不可以就是賴清德不可以那麼去問一問為什麼蔣萬安可以為什麼盧秀燕可以我們也不要講因為政黨的關係你的政黨可以我的政黨不可以我們也不要流入黨派之爭就對於公民投票他進行的是對於政策的討論\n347955\t376548\t政務人員對於政策討論公共事務表達立場合作之有對不對下一頁早上陳培宇委員跟您討論過這個問題行政中立法規範的是我們的公務從業同仁對於人民的表意自由不是規範的對象嘛對不對所以立法院來針對來受訪陳情的民眾身上別了一個\n377788\t400147\t對於罷免的意見表達的撕帶都禁止帶入立法院那立法院不正是應當歡迎不同的意見進入的民主殿堂嗎你認為立法院用違反行政中立來禁止公民的飄帶別在他的身上進入立法院這是不是大有問題\n401235\t418573\t我早上有說過立法院是一個代表民主政治的一個殿堂它有公共空間的部分有屬於純辦公就公務人辦公的部分所以如果做這樣一個區隔就會比較好理解但事實上公務人員行政中立法不適用於人民啊不是嗎\n420430\t448745\t那我要再用翁小林委員的魔法打敗他右邊這個圖是韓國瑜院長拿著一個這麼大的標語說要不同意罷免這麼大的標語可以拿在立法院的議場前面表達韓國瑜院長跟國民黨立委的意見如果這是可以的話那人民一個小小的50公分的絲帶要被禁止\n449785\t476364\t這不是很奇怪嗎我接著問韓國瑜院長可不可以針對公投表達他的意見當然可以嘛 對不對所以說汪小玲剛剛說賴清德不可以那就大有問題了基於公共政策的討論如果汪小玲委員認為賴清德不可以那請韓國瑜院長針對核三研議公投最好閉嘴不要講任何一句話因為這是國民黨的汪小玲要求的\n477372\t503788\t政務人員就針對政策表達立場合作之有呢完全沒有違反行政中立的問題不是嗎那一個更大的諷刺最意識不中立的韓國瑜最政治不中立的韓國瑜國民黨的委員可以容忍對於人民一個小小的絲帶卻要禁止他這是大有問題的不要雙標至此啊來 下一頁\n505276\t520083\t行政部中立在這一次這段時間我們好好來檢視找出對的方向下一頁洩露民眾的個資來遂行國民黨委員發起的國民黨部發起的惡霸\n522226\t535517\t違反行政中立被司法認證的而且自己認罪的基隆市的民政處長用個資來幫助國民黨連署罷免有沒有違反行政中立\n538393\t557258\t已經被判了嘛對不對司法也認證了嘛花蓮市的民政處長明良珍也違反了各司法違反的行政中立濫用行政權限來替個別政黨進行罷免的事宜也清楚的違反行政中立嘛對不對也被判刑嘛他也認罪了下一頁\n558564\t570991\t好這是一個新的面向要跟您討論這一次也發生了各縣市有一些反罷免的文宣被塞入了他是夾帶著這個選舉公報進入社區\n575493\t597683\t那當然這個案在桃園有在花蓮有我們希望他不是一個通案啦不要成為這種大家有樣學樣這個違法的樣態但是我們從這個事件當中看到的是這些反罷文宣可以跟著投票通知單進入家戶這有沒有涉及違反行政中立我想他應該是跟選舉罷免法有關吧好下一頁選舉罷免法沒錯好\n604887\t611195\t這是一個我們要跟 欸內政部有代表來嗎或是中選會還是內政部 中選會好了\n613598\t636161\t我們來就這個新生的樣態好好來探討就發生在桃園跟花蓮的選舉公報夾帶反罷免的文宣這件事多數的厲害相關人也就是這些反罷的國民黨立委的當事人都說他們不知情這是李林長自己可能假婆啦 或是不知道啦\n637242\t665080\t诶 主委不管是行政中立法是全序部管的或者是公務人員選罷法裡面針對夾帶這種文宣可能選舉也會發生 公統也會發生其實它的規範是不明確的李領長現在是不受行政中立法規範對不對 部長不受嘛 李領長不受嘛但是李領長有沒有受公務人員選罷法的規範 主委他們並不是我們所謂的選務工作人員\n665942\t695044\t所以呢 可以嗎 可以這樣嗎這種行為當然在我們選務上是不中立的嘛我們每一次都是苦口婆心提醒大家從這個個案我們就看到我們法規要精進下一頁我建議針對公職人員選舉罷免法的增訂45條之一很清楚的來明定各級選委會或鄉鎮市公所所委託負責發放選舉公報或者是投票通知單之人員\n696005\t721821\t不得有下列行為就是幫忙塞一些東西啦這些有特定的選舉或或是政黨議事的相關資料或物品或者是利用發放機會去口頭的宣傳啦去支持特定候選人或者是罷免案或是公投案等等這些東西如果我們試著在公職人員選辦法裡頭來增訂其實就很明確讓李林長知道 你不可以\n722842\t734320\t包括有規定也要有法則我也一併的提出110條第一項如果違反了剛剛所說的幫忙夾帶一些文宣在選舉公報應當中立的事項裡頭他沒有中立\n737031\t763908\t也定於罰則就是現在的10萬以上100萬以下您同不同意這樣更明確我們尊重其實即便是在還沒完成立法之前我們這部分還是會加強宣導你們加強宣導一定要加強宣導但事實上就是有一些人惡意的濫用法律的漏洞他說我不知道啦我不是故意的啦還是那是別人做的不是我啦熱心民眾為之啦\n765270\t783081\t我認為法律明確比較重要其實現在要做這種這個夾帶的行為的話是絕對逃不過民眾的眼睛是 所以這一次罷免的過程當中國民黨的特定候選人被罷的候選人發生這種事情社會才很快的進行反制嘛\n783601\t801559\t以至於能夠抑制他大量的被有樣學樣被影響了罷免投票的中立嘛我現在說的剛好個案是發生在國民黨的特定被罷免的委員的選區但我們在制度的解釋他應當適用於任何的政黨\n802359\t829257\t適用於任何的選舉者適用於所有的人因為法律就是不分黨派它規範的是一個該中立就中立該守法就守法所以我們今天在這裡釐清了李林長確實不受行政中立法的規範當然我也想過要不要把他納入啦但是李林長本身納入的姿勢體大李林長本身有黨籍他也是政務人員不是嗎李林長也會陪著我們可能一起參加活動\n832299\t850468\t所以說不要為了規範某些事情就做了不合宜的規範但是對於公職人員選罷法的修訂可以很明確的把夾帶一些選舉意圖特定政黨的東西把它防堵起來我希望後續大家都可以一起來支持好嗎\n851408\t875788\t好 辛苦大家 好 謝謝大家那再一次提醒喔不要永遠是只要賴清德都不可以蔣萬安 盧秀燕都可以我們是同一個國家是用同樣的法律不管是行政中立 議事中立 政治中立規範的都是同樣的不同政黨的人都要受到規範我要在這裡再一次的清楚的強調而不是選擇性的來守法\n878871\t882279\t對不同異己的人就施以不合理的規定好 謝謝\n","txt":"所有登記方案委員 請大家結束為止好 我們請吳思耀委員發言謝謝主席來 我先請法務部次長麻煩次長\n但我要提醒一下公務人員加薪這件事情目前政策還沒拍板那我提醒一下國民黨的委員那今年很早就已經2025年加薪嘛那當時在立法院審議總預算的時候為什麼Pending到5月才把加薪發下去是因為在野黨的委員\n對於總預算做出了一些很大的一些前置跟干擾好不容易加薪的3%居然是在今年5月才發放到加薪的公務人員的手上請在野黨的委員一再的要求加薪加薪加薪的同時也應當去思考在總預算的審議當中不要為難自己國家的總預算次長請\n因為這個社群上有個重要的新聞我認為是需要澄清一下那我收到了蠻多律師界的反應那昨天在台中地院那赫然發現有一位中國籍的律師擔任了訴訟代理人嗎我沒有進一步的訊息只是看到這樣子的一個新聞讓我們赫然認為要去檢視一下法規那就這個個案法務部應當趕快去了解那事實的狀況是如何\n好 各位委員報告 首先這個案子因為我們昨天晚上只看到這個民眾在社群媒體上的發言其實詳細事實如何我們其實並不清楚那看他所講的這個內容呢疑似有可能違反律師法120條規定所以目前這個台中地檢署會去依法偵辦\n那但是其他的部分可能細節需要釐清那好像今天這個司法院這邊台中電有發過新聞稿說這個依照台中電院的新聞稿可能要請司法院來補充就是說這個這位這個民眾他其實是以這個公司的這一個公司員工 受雇員工的身份所以他並不是辯護律師對 他有沒有 他到底有沒有\n用這個律師的身份來執行律師職務我覺得這個還需要釐清那法院的審理過程我們會尊重 以上\n所以個案你們有掌握司法院也有掌握這個狀況嘛對不對好就個案的部分我認為要清楚了解事實然後要讓社會清楚的說明現在的律師法對於中國律師可不可以在台灣執業是沒有規範的港澳條例22條有規範是可以允許但是要向法務部申請但兩岸條例是沒有規範的\n兩案條例是沒有規範的所以說從這個個案來講當然釐清事實是一個重點但後續也給我們立法委員一個好的方向我們好好去就這個方面來處理那我問一下如果外國律師在台灣執業他申請的程序是什麼是依照律師法115條的規定外國律師非經法務部許可並於許可後六個月內加入律師公會不得執行職務但是當然他有一些例外的情形\n所以看来外国律师事务所的申请跟港澳条例22条是一样的我们刚刚讲的是外国律师对我知道那事务所的话是在120条的规定好那我了解了那后续这个部分我们好好在法治面去思考一下但这个个案要掌握好吗那不要让舆论大家有很多的以而传而的状况好谢谢次郎请回好谁行政不中立呢请那个全序部我们师部长下一页\n翁小玲委員已經離席了很可惜喔要不然我想請她可以在場一起分享一下我用她的魔法打敗她到底誰適合適用行政中立法很清楚嘛來 部長誰適用行政中立法剛剛她一直在說賴清德總統\n在民進黨的中常會針對核三研議的公投表達了他會去投票這件事情你剛講得很清楚他如果在民進黨的中常會以黨主席的身份這也沒有問題事實上公民投票他在進行的是一個政策政務人員對於政策表達他的政策立場這也是他的職責不是嗎是的\n否則所有的政務人員跟政策相關的事情有公投存在他不能表達他的政策立場那誰為政策負責了呢我想還包括不同的民選行政首長可能也都有不同所以我要用汪小玲的魔法打敗他就是如果賴慶的總統不能夠對於核三研議公投表達他的立場的話那蔣萬安怎麼可以跟黃國昌見面的時候他說支持核三研議公投呢\n如果賴清德不行 那為什麼盧秀燕可以說核三研議公投是給人民一個新的選項所以同樣的道理政務人員本於政策表達他的政策觀點第一個 他沒有違法第二個 我認為這就是政務人員的\n責任不是嗎所以中央跟地方適用的是同樣一個法律當國民黨的委員一直認為賴清德不可以就是賴清德不可以那麼去問一問為什麼蔣萬安可以為什麼盧秀燕可以我們也不要講因為政黨的關係你的政黨可以我的政黨不可以我們也不要流入黨派之爭就對於公民投票他進行的是對於政策的討論\n政務人員對於政策討論公共事務表達立場合作之有對不對下一頁早上陳培宇委員跟您討論過這個問題行政中立法規範的是我們的公務從業同仁對於人民的表意自由不是規範的對象嘛對不對所以立法院來針對來受訪陳情的民眾身上別了一個\n對於罷免的意見表達的撕帶都禁止帶入立法院那立法院不正是應當歡迎不同的意見進入的民主殿堂嗎你認為立法院用違反行政中立來禁止公民的飄帶別在他的身上進入立法院這是不是大有問題\n我早上有說過立法院是一個代表民主政治的一個殿堂它有公共空間的部分有屬於純辦公就公務人辦公的部分所以如果做這樣一個區隔就會比較好理解但事實上公務人員行政中立法不適用於人民啊不是嗎\n那我要再用翁小林委員的魔法打敗他右邊這個圖是韓國瑜院長拿著一個這麼大的標語說要不同意罷免這麼大的標語可以拿在立法院的議場前面表達韓國瑜院長跟國民黨立委的意見如果這是可以的話那人民一個小小的50公分的絲帶要被禁止\n這不是很奇怪嗎我接著問韓國瑜院長可不可以針對公投表達他的意見當然可以嘛 對不對所以說汪小玲剛剛說賴清德不可以那就大有問題了基於公共政策的討論如果汪小玲委員認為賴清德不可以那請韓國瑜院長針對核三研議公投最好閉嘴不要講任何一句話因為這是國民黨的汪小玲要求的\n政務人員就針對政策表達立場合作之有呢完全沒有違反行政中立的問題不是嗎那一個更大的諷刺最意識不中立的韓國瑜最政治不中立的韓國瑜國民黨的委員可以容忍對於人民一個小小的絲帶卻要禁止他這是大有問題的不要雙標至此啊來 下一頁\n行政部中立在這一次這段時間我們好好來檢視找出對的方向下一頁洩露民眾的個資來遂行國民黨委員發起的國民黨部發起的惡霸\n違反行政中立被司法認證的而且自己認罪的基隆市的民政處長用個資來幫助國民黨連署罷免有沒有違反行政中立\n已經被判了嘛對不對司法也認證了嘛花蓮市的民政處長明良珍也違反了各司法違反的行政中立濫用行政權限來替個別政黨進行罷免的事宜也清楚的違反行政中立嘛對不對也被判刑嘛他也認罪了下一頁\n好這是一個新的面向要跟您討論這一次也發生了各縣市有一些反罷免的文宣被塞入了他是夾帶著這個選舉公報進入社區\n那當然這個案在桃園有在花蓮有我們希望他不是一個通案啦不要成為這種大家有樣學樣這個違法的樣態但是我們從這個事件當中看到的是這些反罷文宣可以跟著投票通知單進入家戶這有沒有涉及違反行政中立我想他應該是跟選舉罷免法有關吧好下一頁選舉罷免法沒錯好\n這是一個我們要跟 欸內政部有代表來嗎或是中選會還是內政部 中選會好了\n我們來就這個新生的樣態好好來探討就發生在桃園跟花蓮的選舉公報夾帶反罷免的文宣這件事多數的厲害相關人也就是這些反罷的國民黨立委的當事人都說他們不知情這是李林長自己可能假婆啦 或是不知道啦\n诶 主委不管是行政中立法是全序部管的或者是公務人員選罷法裡面針對夾帶這種文宣可能選舉也會發生 公統也會發生其實它的規範是不明確的李領長現在是不受行政中立法規範對不對 部長不受嘛 李領長不受嘛但是李領長有沒有受公務人員選罷法的規範 主委他們並不是我們所謂的選務工作人員\n所以呢 可以嗎 可以這樣嗎這種行為當然在我們選務上是不中立的嘛我們每一次都是苦口婆心提醒大家從這個個案我們就看到我們法規要精進下一頁我建議針對公職人員選舉罷免法的增訂45條之一很清楚的來明定各級選委會或鄉鎮市公所所委託負責發放選舉公報或者是投票通知單之人員\n不得有下列行為就是幫忙塞一些東西啦這些有特定的選舉或或是政黨議事的相關資料或物品或者是利用發放機會去口頭的宣傳啦去支持特定候選人或者是罷免案或是公投案等等這些東西如果我們試著在公職人員選辦法裡頭來增訂其實就很明確讓李林長知道 你不可以\n包括有規定也要有法則我也一併的提出110條第一項如果違反了剛剛所說的幫忙夾帶一些文宣在選舉公報應當中立的事項裡頭他沒有中立\n也定於罰則就是現在的10萬以上100萬以下您同不同意這樣更明確我們尊重其實即便是在還沒完成立法之前我們這部分還是會加強宣導你們加強宣導一定要加強宣導但事實上就是有一些人惡意的濫用法律的漏洞他說我不知道啦我不是故意的啦還是那是別人做的不是我啦熱心民眾為之啦\n我認為法律明確比較重要其實現在要做這種這個夾帶的行為的話是絕對逃不過民眾的眼睛是 所以這一次罷免的過程當中國民黨的特定候選人被罷的候選人發生這種事情社會才很快的進行反制嘛\n以至於能夠抑制他大量的被有樣學樣被影響了罷免投票的中立嘛我現在說的剛好個案是發生在國民黨的特定被罷免的委員的選區但我們在制度的解釋他應當適用於任何的政黨\n適用於任何的選舉者適用於所有的人因為法律就是不分黨派它規範的是一個該中立就中立該守法就守法所以我們今天在這裡釐清了李林長確實不受行政中立法的規範當然我也想過要不要把他納入啦但是李林長本身納入的姿勢體大李林長本身有黨籍他也是政務人員不是嗎李林長也會陪著我們可能一起參加活動\n所以說不要為了規範某些事情就做了不合宜的規範但是對於公職人員選罷法的修訂可以很明確的把夾帶一些選舉意圖特定政黨的東西把它防堵起來我希望後續大家都可以一起來支持好嗎\n好 辛苦大家 好 謝謝大家那再一次提醒喔不要永遠是只要賴清德都不可以蔣萬安 盧秀燕都可以我們是同一個國家是用同樣的法律不管是行政中立 議事中立 政治中立規範的都是同樣的不同政黨的人都要受到規範我要在這裡再一次的清楚的強調而不是選擇性的來守法\n對不同異己的人就施以不合理的規定好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:09.656\n所有登記方案委員請大家結束為止好我們請吳思耀委員發言謝謝主席來我先請法務部次長麻煩次長\n\n00:12.062 --> 00:32.368\n但我要提醒一下公務人員加薪這件事情目前政策還沒拍板那我提醒一下國民黨的委員那今年很早就已經2025年加薪嘛那當時在立法院審議總預算的時候為什麼Pending到5月才把加薪發下去是因為在野黨的委員\n\n00:34.608 --> 00:55.721\n對於總預算做出了一些很大的一些前置跟干擾好不容易加薪的3%居然是在今年5月才發放到加薪的公務人員的手上請在野黨的委員一再的要求加薪加薪加薪的同時也應當去思考在總預算的審議當中不要為難自己國家的總預算次長請\n\n00:59.203 --> 01:28.346\n因為這個社群上有個重要的新聞我認為是需要澄清一下那我收到了蠻多律師界的反應那昨天在台中地院那赫然發現有一位中國籍的律師擔任了訴訟代理人嗎我沒有進一步的訊息只是看到這樣子的一個新聞讓我們赫然認為要去檢視一下法規那就這個個案法務部應當趕快去了解那事實的狀況是如何\n\n01:28.986 --> 01:50.745\n好各位委員報告首先這個案子因為我們昨天晚上只看到這個民眾在社群媒體上的發言其實詳細事實如何我們其實並不清楚那看他所講的這個內容呢疑似有可能違反律師法120條規定所以目前這個台中地檢署會去依法偵辦\n\n01:52.006 --> 02:20.809\n那但是其他的部分可能細節需要釐清那好像今天這個司法院這邊台中電有發過新聞稿說這個依照台中電院的新聞稿可能要請司法院來補充就是說這個這位這個民眾他其實是以這個公司的這一個公司員工受雇員工的身份所以他並不是辯護律師對他有沒有他到底有沒有\n\n02:21.650 --> 02:28.089\n用這個律師的身份來執行律師職務我覺得這個還需要釐清那法院的審理過程我們會尊重以上\n\n02:29.051 --> 02:51.065\n所以個案你們有掌握司法院也有掌握這個狀況嘛對不對好就個案的部分我認為要清楚了解事實然後要讓社會清楚的說明現在的律師法對於中國律師可不可以在台灣執業是沒有規範的港澳條例22條有規範是可以允許但是要向法務部申請但兩岸條例是沒有規範的\n\n02:52.746 --> 03:20.106\n兩案條例是沒有規範的所以說從這個個案來講當然釐清事實是一個重點但後續也給我們立法委員一個好的方向我們好好去就這個方面來處理那我問一下如果外國律師在台灣執業他申請的程序是什麼是依照律師法115條的規定外國律師非經法務部許可並於許可後六個月內加入律師公會不得執行職務但是當然他有一些例外的情形\n\n03:21.106 --> 03:49.805\n所以看来外国律师事务所的申请跟港澳条例22条是一样的我们刚刚讲的是外国律师对我知道那事务所的话是在120条的规定好那我了解了那后续这个部分我们好好在法治面去思考一下但这个个案要掌握好吗那不要让舆论大家有很多的以而传而的状况好谢谢次郎请回好谁行政不中立呢请那个全序部我们师部长下一页\n\n03:51.864 --> 04:09.598\n翁小玲委員已經離席了很可惜喔要不然我想請她可以在場一起分享一下我用她的魔法打敗她到底誰適合適用行政中立法很清楚嘛來部長誰適用行政中立法剛剛她一直在說賴清德總統\n\n04:10.879 --> 04:33.819\n在民進黨的中常會針對核三研議的公投表達了他會去投票這件事情你剛講得很清楚他如果在民進黨的中常會以黨主席的身份這也沒有問題事實上公民投票他在進行的是一個政策政務人員對於政策表達他的政策立場這也是他的職責不是嗎是的\n\n04:34.099 --> 05:02.660\n否則所有的政務人員跟政策相關的事情有公投存在他不能表達他的政策立場那誰為政策負責了呢我想還包括不同的民選行政首長可能也都有不同所以我要用汪小玲的魔法打敗他就是如果賴慶的總統不能夠對於核三研議公投表達他的立場的話那蔣萬安怎麼可以跟黃國昌見面的時候他說支持核三研議公投呢\n\n05:03.689 --> 05:21.308\n如果賴清德不行那為什麼盧秀燕可以說核三研議公投是給人民一個新的選項所以同樣的道理政務人員本於政策表達他的政策觀點第一個他沒有違法第二個我認為這就是政務人員的\n\n05:23.170 --> 05:46.895\n責任不是嗎所以中央跟地方適用的是同樣一個法律當國民黨的委員一直認為賴清德不可以就是賴清德不可以那麼去問一問為什麼蔣萬安可以為什麼盧秀燕可以我們也不要講因為政黨的關係你的政黨可以我的政黨不可以我們也不要流入黨派之爭就對於公民投票他進行的是對於政策的討論\n\n05:47.955 --> 06:16.548\n政務人員對於政策討論公共事務表達立場合作之有對不對下一頁早上陳培宇委員跟您討論過這個問題行政中立法規範的是我們的公務從業同仁對於人民的表意自由不是規範的對象嘛對不對所以立法院來針對來受訪陳情的民眾身上別了一個\n\n06:17.788 --> 06:40.147\n對於罷免的意見表達的撕帶都禁止帶入立法院那立法院不正是應當歡迎不同的意見進入的民主殿堂嗎你認為立法院用違反行政中立來禁止公民的飄帶別在他的身上進入立法院這是不是大有問題\n\n06:41.235 --> 06:58.573\n我早上有說過立法院是一個代表民主政治的一個殿堂它有公共空間的部分有屬於純辦公就公務人辦公的部分所以如果做這樣一個區隔就會比較好理解但事實上公務人員行政中立法不適用於人民啊不是嗎\n\n07:00.430 --> 07:28.745\n那我要再用翁小林委員的魔法打敗他右邊這個圖是韓國瑜院長拿著一個這麼大的標語說要不同意罷免這麼大的標語可以拿在立法院的議場前面表達韓國瑜院長跟國民黨立委的意見如果這是可以的話那人民一個小小的50公分的絲帶要被禁止\n\n07:29.785 --> 07:56.364\n這不是很奇怪嗎我接著問韓國瑜院長可不可以針對公投表達他的意見當然可以嘛對不對所以說汪小玲剛剛說賴清德不可以那就大有問題了基於公共政策的討論如果汪小玲委員認為賴清德不可以那請韓國瑜院長針對核三研議公投最好閉嘴不要講任何一句話因為這是國民黨的汪小玲要求的\n\n07:57.372 --> 08:23.788\n政務人員就針對政策表達立場合作之有呢完全沒有違反行政中立的問題不是嗎那一個更大的諷刺最意識不中立的韓國瑜最政治不中立的韓國瑜國民黨的委員可以容忍對於人民一個小小的絲帶卻要禁止他這是大有問題的不要雙標至此啊來下一頁\n\n08:25.276 --> 08:40.083\n行政部中立在這一次這段時間我們好好來檢視找出對的方向下一頁洩露民眾的個資來遂行國民黨委員發起的國民黨部發起的惡霸\n\n08:42.226 --> 08:55.517\n違反行政中立被司法認證的而且自己認罪的基隆市的民政處長用個資來幫助國民黨連署罷免有沒有違反行政中立\n\n08:58.393 --> 09:17.258\n已經被判了嘛對不對司法也認證了嘛花蓮市的民政處長明良珍也違反了各司法違反的行政中立濫用行政權限來替個別政黨進行罷免的事宜也清楚的違反行政中立嘛對不對也被判刑嘛他也認罪了下一頁\n\n09:18.564 --> 09:30.991\n好這是一個新的面向要跟您討論這一次也發生了各縣市有一些反罷免的文宣被塞入了他是夾帶著這個選舉公報進入社區\n\n09:35.493 --> 09:57.683\n那當然這個案在桃園有在花蓮有我們希望他不是一個通案啦不要成為這種大家有樣學樣這個違法的樣態但是我們從這個事件當中看到的是這些反罷文宣可以跟著投票通知單進入家戶這有沒有涉及違反行政中立我想他應該是跟選舉罷免法有關吧好下一頁選舉罷免法沒錯好\n\n10:04.887 --> 10:11.195\n這是一個我們要跟欸內政部有代表來嗎或是中選會還是內政部中選會好了\n\n10:13.598 --> 10:36.161\n我們來就這個新生的樣態好好來探討就發生在桃園跟花蓮的選舉公報夾帶反罷免的文宣這件事多數的厲害相關人也就是這些反罷的國民黨立委的當事人都說他們不知情這是李林長自己可能假婆啦或是不知道啦\n\n10:37.242 --> 11:05.080\n诶主委不管是行政中立法是全序部管的或者是公務人員選罷法裡面針對夾帶這種文宣可能選舉也會發生公統也會發生其實它的規範是不明確的李領長現在是不受行政中立法規範對不對部長不受嘛李領長不受嘛但是李領長有沒有受公務人員選罷法的規範主委他們並不是我們所謂的選務工作人員\n\n11:05.942 --> 11:35.044\n所以呢可以嗎可以這樣嗎這種行為當然在我們選務上是不中立的嘛我們每一次都是苦口婆心提醒大家從這個個案我們就看到我們法規要精進下一頁我建議針對公職人員選舉罷免法的增訂45條之一很清楚的來明定各級選委會或鄉鎮市公所所委託負責發放選舉公報或者是投票通知單之人員\n\n11:36.005 --> 12:01.821\n不得有下列行為就是幫忙塞一些東西啦這些有特定的選舉或或是政黨議事的相關資料或物品或者是利用發放機會去口頭的宣傳啦去支持特定候選人或者是罷免案或是公投案等等這些東西如果我們試著在公職人員選辦法裡頭來增訂其實就很明確讓李林長知道你不可以\n\n12:02.842 --> 12:14.320\n包括有規定也要有法則我也一併的提出110條第一項如果違反了剛剛所說的幫忙夾帶一些文宣在選舉公報應當中立的事項裡頭他沒有中立\n\n12:17.031 --> 12:43.908\n也定於罰則就是現在的10萬以上100萬以下您同不同意這樣更明確我們尊重其實即便是在還沒完成立法之前我們這部分還是會加強宣導你們加強宣導一定要加強宣導但事實上就是有一些人惡意的濫用法律的漏洞他說我不知道啦我不是故意的啦還是那是別人做的不是我啦熱心民眾為之啦\n\n12:45.270 --> 13:03.081\n我認為法律明確比較重要其實現在要做這種這個夾帶的行為的話是絕對逃不過民眾的眼睛是所以這一次罷免的過程當中國民黨的特定候選人被罷的候選人發生這種事情社會才很快的進行反制嘛\n\n13:03.601 --> 13:21.559\n以至於能夠抑制他大量的被有樣學樣被影響了罷免投票的中立嘛我現在說的剛好個案是發生在國民黨的特定被罷免的委員的選區但我們在制度的解釋他應當適用於任何的政黨\n\n13:22.359 --> 13:49.257\n適用於任何的選舉者適用於所有的人因為法律就是不分黨派它規範的是一個該中立就中立該守法就守法所以我們今天在這裡釐清了李林長確實不受行政中立法的規範當然我也想過要不要把他納入啦但是李林長本身納入的姿勢體大李林長本身有黨籍他也是政務人員不是嗎李林長也會陪著我們可能一起參加活動\n\n13:52.299 --> 14:10.468\n所以說不要為了規範某些事情就做了不合宜的規範但是對於公職人員選罷法的修訂可以很明確的把夾帶一些選舉意圖特定政黨的東西把它防堵起來我希望後續大家都可以一起來支持好嗎\n\n14:11.408 --> 14:35.788\n好辛苦大家好謝謝大家那再一次提醒喔不要永遠是只要賴清德都不可以蔣萬安盧秀燕都可以我們是同一個國家是用同樣的法律不管是行政中立議事中立政治中立規範的都是同樣的不同政黨的人都要受到規範我要在這裡再一次的清楚的強調而不是選擇性的來守法\n\n14:38.871 --> 14:42.279\n對不同異己的人就施以不合理的規定好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":9.656,"text":"所有登記方案委員 請大家結束為止好 我們請吳思耀委員發言謝謝主席來 我先請法務部次長麻煩次長"},{"start":12.062,"end":32.368,"text":"但我要提醒一下公務人員加薪這件事情目前政策還沒拍板那我提醒一下國民黨的委員那今年很早就已經2025年加薪嘛那當時在立法院審議總預算的時候為什麼Pending到5月才把加薪發下去是因為在野黨的委員"},{"start":34.608,"end":55.721,"text":"對於總預算做出了一些很大的一些前置跟干擾好不容易加薪的3%居然是在今年5月才發放到加薪的公務人員的手上請在野黨的委員一再的要求加薪加薪加薪的同時也應當去思考在總預算的審議當中不要為難自己國家的總預算次長請"},{"start":59.203,"end":88.346,"text":"因為這個社群上有個重要的新聞我認為是需要澄清一下那我收到了蠻多律師界的反應那昨天在台中地院那赫然發現有一位中國籍的律師擔任了訴訟代理人嗎我沒有進一步的訊息只是看到這樣子的一個新聞讓我們赫然認為要去檢視一下法規那就這個個案法務部應當趕快去了解那事實的狀況是如何"},{"start":88.986,"end":110.745,"text":"好 各位委員報告 首先這個案子因為我們昨天晚上只看到這個民眾在社群媒體上的發言其實詳細事實如何我們其實並不清楚那看他所講的這個內容呢疑似有可能違反律師法120條規定所以目前這個台中地檢署會去依法偵辦"},{"start":112.006,"end":140.809,"text":"那但是其他的部分可能細節需要釐清那好像今天這個司法院這邊台中電有發過新聞稿說這個依照台中電院的新聞稿可能要請司法院來補充就是說這個這位這個民眾他其實是以這個公司的這一個公司員工 受雇員工的身份所以他並不是辯護律師對 他有沒有 他到底有沒有"},{"start":141.65,"end":148.089,"text":"用這個律師的身份來執行律師職務我覺得這個還需要釐清那法院的審理過程我們會尊重 以上"},{"start":149.051,"end":171.065,"text":"所以個案你們有掌握司法院也有掌握這個狀況嘛對不對好就個案的部分我認為要清楚了解事實然後要讓社會清楚的說明現在的律師法對於中國律師可不可以在台灣執業是沒有規範的港澳條例22條有規範是可以允許但是要向法務部申請但兩岸條例是沒有規範的"},{"start":172.746,"end":200.106,"text":"兩案條例是沒有規範的所以說從這個個案來講當然釐清事實是一個重點但後續也給我們立法委員一個好的方向我們好好去就這個方面來處理那我問一下如果外國律師在台灣執業他申請的程序是什麼是依照律師法115條的規定外國律師非經法務部許可並於許可後六個月內加入律師公會不得執行職務但是當然他有一些例外的情形"},{"start":201.106,"end":229.805,"text":"所以看来外国律师事务所的申请跟港澳条例22条是一样的我们刚刚讲的是外国律师对我知道那事务所的话是在120条的规定好那我了解了那后续这个部分我们好好在法治面去思考一下但这个个案要掌握好吗那不要让舆论大家有很多的以而传而的状况好谢谢次郎请回好谁行政不中立呢请那个全序部我们师部长下一页"},{"start":231.864,"end":249.598,"text":"翁小玲委員已經離席了很可惜喔要不然我想請她可以在場一起分享一下我用她的魔法打敗她到底誰適合適用行政中立法很清楚嘛來 部長誰適用行政中立法剛剛她一直在說賴清德總統"},{"start":250.879,"end":273.819,"text":"在民進黨的中常會針對核三研議的公投表達了他會去投票這件事情你剛講得很清楚他如果在民進黨的中常會以黨主席的身份這也沒有問題事實上公民投票他在進行的是一個政策政務人員對於政策表達他的政策立場這也是他的職責不是嗎是的"},{"start":274.099,"end":302.66,"text":"否則所有的政務人員跟政策相關的事情有公投存在他不能表達他的政策立場那誰為政策負責了呢我想還包括不同的民選行政首長可能也都有不同所以我要用汪小玲的魔法打敗他就是如果賴慶的總統不能夠對於核三研議公投表達他的立場的話那蔣萬安怎麼可以跟黃國昌見面的時候他說支持核三研議公投呢"},{"start":303.689,"end":321.308,"text":"如果賴清德不行 那為什麼盧秀燕可以說核三研議公投是給人民一個新的選項所以同樣的道理政務人員本於政策表達他的政策觀點第一個 他沒有違法第二個 我認為這就是政務人員的"},{"start":323.17,"end":346.895,"text":"責任不是嗎所以中央跟地方適用的是同樣一個法律當國民黨的委員一直認為賴清德不可以就是賴清德不可以那麼去問一問為什麼蔣萬安可以為什麼盧秀燕可以我們也不要講因為政黨的關係你的政黨可以我的政黨不可以我們也不要流入黨派之爭就對於公民投票他進行的是對於政策的討論"},{"start":347.955,"end":376.548,"text":"政務人員對於政策討論公共事務表達立場合作之有對不對下一頁早上陳培宇委員跟您討論過這個問題行政中立法規範的是我們的公務從業同仁對於人民的表意自由不是規範的對象嘛對不對所以立法院來針對來受訪陳情的民眾身上別了一個"},{"start":377.788,"end":400.147,"text":"對於罷免的意見表達的撕帶都禁止帶入立法院那立法院不正是應當歡迎不同的意見進入的民主殿堂嗎你認為立法院用違反行政中立來禁止公民的飄帶別在他的身上進入立法院這是不是大有問題"},{"start":401.235,"end":418.573,"text":"我早上有說過立法院是一個代表民主政治的一個殿堂它有公共空間的部分有屬於純辦公就公務人辦公的部分所以如果做這樣一個區隔就會比較好理解但事實上公務人員行政中立法不適用於人民啊不是嗎"},{"start":420.43,"end":448.745,"text":"那我要再用翁小林委員的魔法打敗他右邊這個圖是韓國瑜院長拿著一個這麼大的標語說要不同意罷免這麼大的標語可以拿在立法院的議場前面表達韓國瑜院長跟國民黨立委的意見如果這是可以的話那人民一個小小的50公分的絲帶要被禁止"},{"start":449.785,"end":476.364,"text":"這不是很奇怪嗎我接著問韓國瑜院長可不可以針對公投表達他的意見當然可以嘛 對不對所以說汪小玲剛剛說賴清德不可以那就大有問題了基於公共政策的討論如果汪小玲委員認為賴清德不可以那請韓國瑜院長針對核三研議公投最好閉嘴不要講任何一句話因為這是國民黨的汪小玲要求的"},{"start":477.372,"end":503.788,"text":"政務人員就針對政策表達立場合作之有呢完全沒有違反行政中立的問題不是嗎那一個更大的諷刺最意識不中立的韓國瑜最政治不中立的韓國瑜國民黨的委員可以容忍對於人民一個小小的絲帶卻要禁止他這是大有問題的不要雙標至此啊來 下一頁"},{"start":505.276,"end":520.083,"text":"行政部中立在這一次這段時間我們好好來檢視找出對的方向下一頁洩露民眾的個資來遂行國民黨委員發起的國民黨部發起的惡霸"},{"start":522.226,"end":535.517,"text":"違反行政中立被司法認證的而且自己認罪的基隆市的民政處長用個資來幫助國民黨連署罷免有沒有違反行政中立"},{"start":538.393,"end":557.258,"text":"已經被判了嘛對不對司法也認證了嘛花蓮市的民政處長明良珍也違反了各司法違反的行政中立濫用行政權限來替個別政黨進行罷免的事宜也清楚的違反行政中立嘛對不對也被判刑嘛他也認罪了下一頁"},{"start":558.564,"end":570.991,"text":"好這是一個新的面向要跟您討論這一次也發生了各縣市有一些反罷免的文宣被塞入了他是夾帶著這個選舉公報進入社區"},{"start":575.493,"end":597.683,"text":"那當然這個案在桃園有在花蓮有我們希望他不是一個通案啦不要成為這種大家有樣學樣這個違法的樣態但是我們從這個事件當中看到的是這些反罷文宣可以跟著投票通知單進入家戶這有沒有涉及違反行政中立我想他應該是跟選舉罷免法有關吧好下一頁選舉罷免法沒錯好"},{"start":604.887,"end":611.195,"text":"這是一個我們要跟 欸內政部有代表來嗎或是中選會還是內政部 中選會好了"},{"start":613.598,"end":636.161,"text":"我們來就這個新生的樣態好好來探討就發生在桃園跟花蓮的選舉公報夾帶反罷免的文宣這件事多數的厲害相關人也就是這些反罷的國民黨立委的當事人都說他們不知情這是李林長自己可能假婆啦 或是不知道啦"},{"start":637.242,"end":665.08,"text":"诶 主委不管是行政中立法是全序部管的或者是公務人員選罷法裡面針對夾帶這種文宣可能選舉也會發生 公統也會發生其實它的規範是不明確的李領長現在是不受行政中立法規範對不對 部長不受嘛 李領長不受嘛但是李領長有沒有受公務人員選罷法的規範 主委他們並不是我們所謂的選務工作人員"},{"start":665.942,"end":695.044,"text":"所以呢 可以嗎 可以這樣嗎這種行為當然在我們選務上是不中立的嘛我們每一次都是苦口婆心提醒大家從這個個案我們就看到我們法規要精進下一頁我建議針對公職人員選舉罷免法的增訂45條之一很清楚的來明定各級選委會或鄉鎮市公所所委託負責發放選舉公報或者是投票通知單之人員"},{"start":696.005,"end":721.821,"text":"不得有下列行為就是幫忙塞一些東西啦這些有特定的選舉或或是政黨議事的相關資料或物品或者是利用發放機會去口頭的宣傳啦去支持特定候選人或者是罷免案或是公投案等等這些東西如果我們試著在公職人員選辦法裡頭來增訂其實就很明確讓李林長知道 你不可以"},{"start":722.842,"end":734.32,"text":"包括有規定也要有法則我也一併的提出110條第一項如果違反了剛剛所說的幫忙夾帶一些文宣在選舉公報應當中立的事項裡頭他沒有中立"},{"start":737.031,"end":763.908,"text":"也定於罰則就是現在的10萬以上100萬以下您同不同意這樣更明確我們尊重其實即便是在還沒完成立法之前我們這部分還是會加強宣導你們加強宣導一定要加強宣導但事實上就是有一些人惡意的濫用法律的漏洞他說我不知道啦我不是故意的啦還是那是別人做的不是我啦熱心民眾為之啦"},{"start":765.27,"end":783.081,"text":"我認為法律明確比較重要其實現在要做這種這個夾帶的行為的話是絕對逃不過民眾的眼睛是 所以這一次罷免的過程當中國民黨的特定候選人被罷的候選人發生這種事情社會才很快的進行反制嘛"},{"start":783.601,"end":801.559,"text":"以至於能夠抑制他大量的被有樣學樣被影響了罷免投票的中立嘛我現在說的剛好個案是發生在國民黨的特定被罷免的委員的選區但我們在制度的解釋他應當適用於任何的政黨"},{"start":802.359,"end":829.257,"text":"適用於任何的選舉者適用於所有的人因為法律就是不分黨派它規範的是一個該中立就中立該守法就守法所以我們今天在這裡釐清了李林長確實不受行政中立法的規範當然我也想過要不要把他納入啦但是李林長本身納入的姿勢體大李林長本身有黨籍他也是政務人員不是嗎李林長也會陪著我們可能一起參加活動"},{"start":832.299,"end":850.468,"text":"所以說不要為了規範某些事情就做了不合宜的規範但是對於公職人員選罷法的修訂可以很明確的把夾帶一些選舉意圖特定政黨的東西把它防堵起來我希望後續大家都可以一起來支持好嗎"},{"start":851.408,"end":875.788,"text":"好 辛苦大家 好 謝謝大家那再一次提醒喔不要永遠是只要賴清德都不可以蔣萬安 盧秀燕都可以我們是同一個國家是用同樣的法律不管是行政中立 議事中立 政治中立規範的都是同樣的不同政黨的人都要受到規範我要在這裡再一次的清楚的強調而不是選擇性的來守法"},{"start":878.871,"end":882.279,"text":"對不同異己的人就施以不合理的規定好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":907,"blocks":[["吳委員思瑤：（11時57分）謝謝主席，我先請法務部次長。"],["主席：麻煩次長。"],["吳委員思瑤：我要提醒一下，公務人員加薪這件事情目前政策還沒拍板，我提醒一下國民黨的委員，今年，很早就已經要2025年加薪嘛！當時在立法院審議總預算的時候，為什麼pending到5月才把加薪發下去？是因為在野黨的委員對於總預算做出一些很大的箝制跟干擾，好不容易加薪的3%，居然是在今年5月才發放到加薪的公務人員手上，請在野黨的委員一再地要求加薪、加薪、加薪的同時，也應當去思考在總預算的審議當中，不要為難自己國家的總預算。","次長，請。"],["黃次長世杰：委員好。"],["吳委員思瑤：因為社群上有個重要的新聞，我認為是需要澄清一下。我收到蠻多律師界的反映，昨天在臺中地院赫然發現有一位中國籍律師擔任了訴訟代理人嗎？我沒有進一步的訊息，只是看到這樣子的一個新聞，讓我們赫然認為要去檢視一下法規，就這個個案，法務部應當趕快去了解，那事實的狀況是如何？"],["黃次長世杰：跟委員報告，首先，這個案子因為我們昨天晚上只看到民眾在社群媒體上的發言，其詳細事實如何，我們其實並不清楚，看他所講的內容，疑似有可能違反律師法第一百二十七條規定，所以目前臺中地檢署會依法偵辦，但是其他的部分可能細節需要釐清。好像今天司法院這邊，臺中地院有發過新聞稿，依照臺中地院的新聞稿，可能要請司法院來補充，這位民眾他其實是以公司受僱員工的身分……"],["吳委員思瑤：所以他並不是辯護律師？"],["黃次長世杰：對，他到底有沒有用律師的身分來執行律師職務，我覺得這個還需要釐清，那法院的審理過程，我們會尊重，以上。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以個案你們有掌握，司法院也有掌握這個狀況嘛！對不對？好，就個案的部分，我認為要清楚了解事實，然後要給社會清楚的說明。"],["黃次長世杰：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：現在的律師法對於中國律師可不可以在臺灣執業是沒有規範的，港澳條例第二十二條有規範是可以允許，但是要向法務部申請，但兩岸條例是沒有規範的。所以從這個個案來講，當然釐清事實是一個重點，但後續也給我們立法委員一個好的方向，我們好好就這個方面來處理。我問一下，如果外國律師在臺灣執業，他申請的程序是什麼？"],["黃次長世杰：是依照律師法第一百十五條的規定，外國律師非經法務部許可並於許可後6個月內加入律師公會，不得執行職務，但是當然有一些例外的情形。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以看來外國律師事務所的申請跟港澳條例第二十二條是一樣的？"],["黃次長世杰：我們剛剛講的是外國律師。"],["吳委員思瑤：對，我知道。"],["黃次長世杰：事務所的話是在第一百二十條的規定。"],["吳委員思瑤：好，我了解了，後續這個部分，我們好好在法制面去思考一下，但這個個案要掌握，好嗎？"],["黃次長世杰：好，是。"],["吳委員思瑤：不要讓輿論有很多以訛傳訛的狀況。"],["黃次長世杰：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：謝謝次長，請回。"],["黃次長世杰：謝謝。"],["吳委員思瑤：誰行政不中立了呢？請銓敘部施部長。翁曉玲委員已經離席了，很可惜！要不然我想請他可以在場一起分享一下我用他的魔法打敗他，到底誰適用行政中立法？很清楚嘛！來，部長，誰適用行政中立法？剛剛他一直在說，賴清德總統在民進黨的中常會針對核三延役的公投表達了他會去投票這件事情，您剛剛講得很清楚，他如果在民進黨的中常會以黨主席的身分，這也沒有問題。"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["吳委員思瑤：事實上，公民投票在進行的是一個政策，政務人員對於政策表達他的政策立場，這也是他的職責，不是嗎？"],["施部長能傑：是的。"],["吳委員思瑤：否則所有的政務人員跟政策相關的事情，有公投存在，他不能表達他的政策立場，那誰為政策負責了呢？"],["施部長能傑：我想還包括不同的民選行政首長可能也都有不同的立場，也都有表達。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，所以我要用翁曉玲的魔法打敗他，就是如果賴清德總統不能夠對於核三延役公投表達他的立場的話，那蔣萬安怎麼可以跟黃國昌見面的時候，他說支持核三延役公投呢？如果賴清德不行，那為什麼盧秀燕可以說核三延役公投是給人民一個新的選項？所以同樣的道理，政務人員本於政策表達他的政策觀點，第一個，他沒有違法；第二個，我認為這就是政務人員的責任，不是嗎？所以中央跟地方適用的是同樣一個法律。當國民黨的委員一直認為賴清德不可以，就是賴清德不可以，那麼去問一問為什麼蔣萬安可以，為什麼盧秀燕可以？我們也不要講因為政黨的關係，你的政黨可以，我的政黨不可以，我們也不要流入黨派之爭，就對於公民投票，它進行的是對於政策的討論，政務人員對於政策討論、公共事務表達立場何錯之有，對不對？早上，陳培瑜委員跟您討論過這個問題，行政中立法規範的是公務從業同仁，對於人民的表意自由，不是規範的對象，對不對？"],["施部長能傑：對。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以，立法院針對來受訪陳情的民眾身上別了一個對於罷免意見表達的絲帶，都禁止帶入立法院，那立法院不正是應當歡迎不同意見者進入的民主殿堂嗎？你認為立法院用違反行政中立來禁止公民的飄帶別在他的身上進入立法院，這是不是大有問題？"],["施部長能傑：我早上有說過，立法院是一個代表民主政治的殿堂，它有公共空間的部分，有屬於純公務人員辦公的部分，所以如果做這樣一個區隔，就會比較好理解哪個部分應該適用、哪個部分不適用。"],["吳委員思瑤：但事實上公務人員行政中立法不適用於人民，不是嗎？"],["施部長能傑：是。"],["吳委員思瑤：那我要再用翁曉玲委員的魔法打敗他。右邊這個圖是韓國瑜院長拿著一個這麼大的標語說要不同意罷免，這麼大的標語可以拿在立法院的議場前面，表達韓國瑜院長跟國民黨立委的意見，如果這是可以的話，那人民一個小小的、50公分的絲帶要被禁止，這不是很奇怪嗎？我接著問，韓國瑜院長可不可以針對公投表達他的意見？"],["施部長能傑：可以，當然可以。"],["吳委員思瑤：當然可以嘛！對不對？所以說翁曉玲剛剛說賴清德不可以，那就大有問題了。基於公共政策的討論，如果翁曉玲委員認為賴清德不可以，那請韓國瑜院長針對核三延役公投最好閉嘴，不要講任何一句話，因為這是國民黨的翁曉玲要求的。政務人員就針對政策表達立場，何錯之有呢？完全沒有違反行政中立的問題，不是嗎？那一個更大的諷刺，最議事不中立的韓國瑜，最政治不中立的韓國瑜，國民黨的委員可以容忍，但對於人民一個小小的絲帶，卻要禁止他，這是大有問題的，不要雙標至此！","行政不中立在這一段時間，我們好好來檢視，找出對的方向。洩漏民眾的個資來遂行國民黨黨部發起的惡罷，違反行政中立被司法認證而且自己認罪的基隆市民政處長，用個資幫助國民黨連署罷免，有沒有違反行政中立？"],["施部長能傑：有，司法院已經……"],["吳委員思瑤：已經被判了嘛！對不對？司法也認證了嘛！花蓮市的民政處長明良臻也違反個資法、違反行政中立、濫用行政權限，來替個別政黨進行罷免事宜，也清楚地違反行政中立，對不對？也被判刑了！他也認罪了！","這是一個新的面向要來跟您討論。這次發生了各縣市有一些反罷免的文宣被夾帶在選舉公報裡面，進入了社區，這樣的個案在桃園有，在花蓮也有，我們希望它不是一個通案，不要成為大家有樣學樣的違法樣態。但我們從這個事件當中看到的是，這些反罷文宣可以跟著投票通知單進入家戶，這樣有沒有涉及違反行政中立？"],["施部長能傑：我想它應該是跟選舉罷免法有關吧。"],["吳委員思瑤：選舉罷免法，沒錯！今天內政部或是中選會有代表來嗎？就中選會好了！我們就針對這個新生的樣態好好來探討，在桃園跟花蓮的選舉公報夾帶反罷免文宣的這件事情，多數的利害相關人，也就是這些反罷的國民黨立委當事人，都說他們不知情，可能是里鄰長自己雞婆或不知道等等。主委，不管是銓敘部管的行政中立法，或是在公務人員選罷法裡面，對於這種文宣的夾帶，可能選舉的時候會發生，公投也會發生，其實它的規範是不明確的。里鄰長現在是不受行政中立法規範，對不對？部長。"],["施部長能傑：不受。"],["吳委員思瑤：里鄰長不受規範，但是里鄰長有沒有受公務人員選罷法的規範？主委。"],["李主任委員進勇：他們並不是我們所謂的選務工作人員。"],["吳委員思瑤：所以呢？可以嗎？可以這樣嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：這種行為當然在我們選務上是不宜的……"],["吳委員思瑤：是不中立的嘛！"],["李主任委員進勇：我們每一次都是苦口婆心地提醒大家……"],["吳委員思瑤：所以從這個個案，就看到我們法規要精進！本席建議，針對公職人員選舉罷免法增訂第四十五條之一，清楚明定各級選委會或鄉鎮市公所委託負責發放選舉公報或是投票通知單之人員，不得有下列行為，就是幫忙塞一些東西，例如特定的選舉時，或是政黨議事的相關資料或物品，或是利用發放機會去口頭宣傳、支持特定候選人、罷免案或公投案等等。如果我們試著在公職人員選罷法裡頭來增訂這些東西，其實就很明確，讓里鄰長知道這樣不行。當然有規定，也要有罰則，本席一併提出第一百十條第一項，如果違反剛剛所提到的，幫忙在選舉公報夾帶一些文宣、在應當中立的事項裡頭他沒有中立，也訂定罰則，就是現在的十萬以上一百萬以下，這樣更明確，您同不同意？"],["李主任委員進勇：我們尊重，即便是在還沒完成立法之前，我們對這部分還是會加強宣導。"],["吳委員思瑤：你們一定要加強宣導，但事實上就是會有一些人惡意濫用法律漏洞，說：他不知道啦！他不是故意的啦！那個是別人做的，不是我啦！是熱心民眾為之啦！我認為法律明確比較重要。"],["李主任委員進勇：其實現在要做這種夾帶的行為，是絕對逃不過民眾的眼睛，大家都睜著眼睛在看。"],["吳委員思瑤：是，所以在這一次罷免的過程當中，國民黨的特定候選人、被罷的候選人發生這種事情，社會才很快地進行反制，以至於能夠抑制被大量地有樣學樣，而影響到罷免投票的中立。我現在說的個案，剛好就發生在國民黨被罷免委員的選區，但我們在制度的檢視上，它應當適用於任何的政黨，適用於任何的選舉者，適用於所有的人，因為法律是不分黨派，它規範的是該中立就中立、該守法就守法。","所以我們今天在這裡釐清里鄰長確實不受行政中立法的規範，當然我也想過要不要把他們納入，但是將里鄰長納入，恐怕是茲事體大，里鄰長本身有黨籍，他也是政務人員，不是嗎？里鄰長可能也會陪著我們一起參加活動，所以不要為了規範某些事情，就做了不合宜的規範。但對於公職人員選罷法的修訂，可以很明確地對夾帶一些選舉意圖、特定政黨的東西，把它防堵起來，希望後續大家都可以一起來支持。辛苦大家，謝謝大家！","再一次提醒，不要永遠是只要是賴清德都不可以，蔣萬安、盧秀燕都可以，我們在同一個國家，適用同樣的法律，不管是行政中立、議事中立或政治中立，規範的都是同樣的，不同政黨的人也都要受到同樣的規範，而不是選擇性的來守法，對不同、異己的人，就施以不合理的規定，我在這裡再一次地清楚強調。謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請王鴻薇委員，王鴻薇委員，王鴻薇委員。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":304,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-24","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","莊瑞雄","林倩綺","陳培瑜","沈發惠","羅智強","麥玉珍","翁曉玲","吳思瑤","鍾佳濱","陳冠廷","吳沛憶","王鴻薇"],"page_start":235,"meetingDate":["2025-08-14"],"gazette_id":"1147302","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147302_00006"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第24次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請銓敘部部長、行政院人事行政總處人事長、中央選舉委員會主任委員、法務部廉政署署\n長、公務人員保障暨培訓委員會率所屬相關單位列席就「政務人員應否及如何遵守行政中立原\n則、行政機關於選舉罷免期間應為如何之宣導與落實」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、併案審查\n(一)考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員邱志偉等21人擬具\n「公務人員考績法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「公務人員考績法第十\n二條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」\n案、( 五) 委員范雲等17 人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條、第十一條及第十二條條文修正草案」\n案；三、併案審查(一)委員傅崐萁等25人、(二)委員郭昱晴等18人分別擬具「刑事訴訟法第七十\n一條及第一百七十五條條文修正草案」案【僅進行詢答】","agenda_id":"1147302_00005"}}}