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00:00:41,465\n委員好大家早我想請教一下因為我們今天特別關注的其實還是在台美關稅談判持續在進行的這個部分當中那我們到底卡關是在哪裡因為其實有所有的委員大概也都提到大家關心的是我們現在這個是暫時性的20%還有疊加的部分\n\n3\n00:00:49,292 --> 00:00:58,240\n另外我們在可能已經把很多的籌碼我們都已經把它公布出去甚至已經送出去了比如說像台積電台積電的投資額度等等然後還有我們現在的投資金額雖然我們還\n\n4\n00:01:04,525 --> 00:01:15,473\n不是很明確的政府也沒有告訴我們投資金額到底是多少可是我們這個也是有一些露出那另外還有包括天然氣因為外交部還興高采烈的在日韓他們都還沒有提到這個部分的時候我們已經去做了投資然後還有軍售的部分那像這些都已經在\n\n5\n00:01:28,462 --> 00:01:36,127\n很重要的籌碼我們都已經在很早的時候我們都已經把它送出去那現在比較大的問題到底是什麼\n\n6\n00:01:37,956 --> 00:02:00,466\n跟委員報告我想對於台美談判現在應該沒有所謂卡關的問題因為我們在前一次在7月底的時候赴美做實體諮商之後那即便是在7月31號美國公布了20%的這個暫時性關稅之後我們上週仍然持續跟美國有在進行線上的會議那所以我們持續積極跟美國在進行協商\n\n7\n00:02:05,228 --> 00:02:28,935\n那也跟委員報告的就是目前我們還沒有完全取得台美最後的這個共識最主要的原因也就是我們希望可以爭取把232的這個調查內容特別是對於半導體這一個調查可以納入對等關稅的這個談判一併去處理那這樣可以處理我們的供應鏈合作\n\n8\n00:02:29,403 --> 00:02:50,262\n也可以比较大幅的实质的去解决可能在台美贸易逆差的问题虽然我们现在刚刚副总谈判代表有提到这个部分说我们供应链的这个部分其实我想这个先前应该也有初步讨论过了因为我们不管在可能无人机或者其他的\n\n9\n00:02:50,822 --> 00:02:59,245\n一些相關的這些產品我們要怎麼樣合作大概也都提到所以我想就這個部分反正我們現在還在進行當中我們就來討論幾個議題順便就叫我們次長還有我們副總談判代表我們先來談談保密的部分好了行政部門一直堅稱說國際慣例要加上台美簽有保密協定所以\n\n10\n00:03:16,371 --> 00:03:20,754\n即使我們所有的產業還有全體國人都還有包括我們整個立法委員都被完全保密的情況之下什麼都不知道那我想要請教的是政府院長辦公室的人他一定有幫忙處理台美談判然後也有跟著去華府談判知道的可能都比我們所有的立法委員多是不是有沒有\n\n11\n00:03:44,075 --> 00:04:06,605\n政府院長談判辦公室有沒有人一起去參與這樣子的談判或者協助所有的行政事務有沒有跟委員報告我想我們的談判團隊就是由談判小組來決定我現在說的是政府院長辦公室的人他有幫忙處理嘛你在處理的過程當中所有的文件資料所有相關的談判內容他們是不是也知道\n\n12\n00:04:08,234 --> 00:04:25,928\n我想我們的談判基本上按照保密協議就是由授權的人員他可以去接觸到文件那我覺得副院長辦公室的人員如果有經過授權那這個是由副院長他有經過授權那我們就來請教一下他們有沒有經過特殊的安全查核有沒有有沒有說有沒有就好不好意思有沒有就好\n\n13\n00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:39,761\n這個部分可能要會後我請我們的長官再跟您做進一步的我們在開會我們在監督我們在審查過去不管是哪一樣的協定其實都有提到這個部分還包括開機密會議連巡打都是用機密的這已經是沒有辦法監督剛剛還說可以監督這完全沒有辦法第一個我要請問的他有沒有經過特殊的安全查核第二個他們有沒有依照國家機密保護法\n\n14\n00:05:06,047 --> 00:05:14,571\n申請出境這應該都沒有在保密的協定所規範的內容這個部分相關的證明在會後提供給本席好不好那第二個我再請教一下美國媒體報導川普利用我們貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算\n\n15\n00:05:26,437 --> 00:05:43,549\n基本上我們所有的委員也都支持軍人待遇條例加薪國軍志願役的這個部分我們也希望透過這樣子的加薪性更多優秀的人才投入國防不過鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說已經向美方表達總統賴清德他宣示國防預算要達到超過GDP3%以上的目標那因此在談判中沒有進一步討論\n\n16\n00:05:56,505 --> 00:06:07,092\n是嗎這是政府院長在記者會上面所說明的他說的所以那這就是表示媒體美國的媒體報導是不正確的囉因為美國的媒體報導說川普會利用貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算可是我們的副院長他說在談判的內容裡面並沒有這一項\n\n17\n00:06:18,746 --> 00:06:21,328\n這個部分表示未來我們跟美國簽約的時候不管是像印尼一樣的先簽一個共同聲明或是簽一個更完整的協定他都不會有關於我們國防預算應該是多少的條款是這樣嗎\n\n18\n00:06:37,292 --> 00:06:55,070\n就如同政府院長說的我們在會議上面已經重申了我們的總統重申我們接下來的國防預算會提高到GDP3%所以這就是台灣的既定政策方向對所以我們的條款裡面就不會再寫上這一條嘛對不對\n\n19\n00:06:56,912 --> 00:07:01,815\n我想這個我們現在談判都在進行當中沒有因為你總是有一個標準啦因為你說你已經沒有在裡面談判了那你沒有談判你就不會寫在上面你已經告訴他會在GDP3%以上了你只是這樣講那已經沒有在談判的內容裡面了我們不知道多少你也許說5%或多少不知道那你現在如果按照政府院長的說法那就是不會寫在我們的不管是聲明也好協定也好\n\n20\n00:07:27,264 --> 00:07:30,026\n外交部回答一下好不好因為這個有條約締結法你們是主管機關在這裡請教一個問題剛剛經貿辦提到的這個部分你說還在進行當中可是副院長說這個不會在談判的內容裡面那不會在談判的內容裡面就不會寫在這個條款裡面萬一未來在這個條款裡面他們已經有他寫上這個金額或者他的經費數字的話怎麼辦\n\n21\n00:07:57,213 --> 00:08:00,376\n報告委員具體的談判還是由談判團隊來負責對於具體內容沒有因為你們說沒有啊副院長他是主談的一個代表他說在我們談判的過程當中沒有這一項在這裡我們看到行政團會團隊跟談判代表已經逾越權責\n\n22\n00:08:20,836 --> 00:08:28,241\n他說預算多少其實這個不是行政團隊或誰說了算所有預算還是必須經過立法院的啊所以你在談判的時候你說沒有談可是萬一你寫下去那這個整個協定它會不會生效如果不被同意的時候這個協定或者這個條款會不會生效\n\n23\n00:08:43,697 --> 00:09:04,923\n報告委員那兩件事第一個是說其實以副院長說的為準因為那個我們外交部並沒有參與到實際的這個談判第一線的工作第二那麼相關的這個談判的一個結果那麼牽涉到這個預算的這個審查這一定是這個遵循這個相關的規定這個預算本來就是要透過立法院來決定\n\n24\n00:09:05,823 --> 00:09:11,427\n或是談判的這個最終的一個結果按照他的性質剛剛你提到這個必須要預算要經過立法院嘛那談判的過程當中以正副院長他所說的為主那他就是說在這個談判裡面我們的國防預算並沒有納在這裡面談判所以萬一他有在裡面出現的時候他就是沒有不生效的囉\n\n25\n00:09:32,999 --> 00:09:38,822\n那個生不生效我想還是要由立法院來做審議因為你總是只有一個方向嘛副院長就說沒有談判那你沒談判你還把他寫在裡面是人家說了算嗎是美國說了算嗎我說你3%就3%我說你3.5%就3.5%我說你1兆5你就1兆5嗎你既然沒有談判你就不會寫在這裡面如果他寫在這裡面那這條款會不會生效嘛你是主管機關會不會生效\n\n26\n00:10:00,953 --> 00:10:05,559\n那我們把會把所有的這個談判的結果送到這個我們沒有要等結果我們現在談的是這一個部分這個部分在盡快的時間會後你也把我們剛剛詢問的問題把這個狀況可以提供給本席好不好\n\n27\n00:10:16,394 --> 00:10:20,897\n因為時間的關係我再借用一點時間鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說了很多非關稅貿易障礙美豬美牛都是必考題這個大家都知道所以因為這些都是美國公開的報告所以這個騙不了人可是鄭副院長並沒有講到說他降稅的部分我們雖然犧牲了美豬美牛可是他沒有降稅那美國到底跟我們要求多少項產品的降稅\n\n28\n00:10:43,092 --> 00:10:46,856\n我想請教副總談判代表比如說雞肉有沒有降稅\n\n29\n00:10:48,783 --> 00:11:11,637\n跟委員報告我想所有的議題都是在這個動態發展當中所以很確定的有沒有談到肌肉有沒有降稅因為肌肉對我們台灣所有的養雞的產業非常非常重要我們尤其我們台灣人還有包括我們很多的食品其實他跟肌肉其實相關有沒有談到肌肉告訴我們有沒有談到肌肉就好我想美國有沒有要求\n\n30\n00:11:15,739 --> 00:11:18,722\n各位委員報告我想所有的議題都在動態發展當中如果只是這樣來交代你到現在對人民都不敢說雞肉我剛剛說他對我們所有的人民至關重大他所有的產業的傷害也非常重大如果你們沒有要用這樣子說還在動態的發展連這個都不敢說會引起更大的反彈而且\n\n31\n00:11:38,197 --> 00:11:42,458\n大家對於這樣的黑箱的談判會更不能接受這個部分我想你們再考慮一下有些部分必須要人民做更好的因應跟準備這不是雞你養了就馬上可以大家投資很多的成本大家做了很多的付出你應該讓他們可以有因應跟準備的一個時間這個部分我想也沒有什麼美國如果要求我們就是要應對我們就是要談嘛\n\n32\n00:12:05,186 --> 00:12:09,350\n那你要談到什麼樣的結果那是另外一回事可是到底肌肉有沒有在這個降稅的這個部分裡面應該要提早讓人民知道不然你受到的反彈會非常大尤其對我們現在的執政黨最後一個問題我再請教一下中金院長連名顯說韓國花了3500億美元投資美國都沒有換到這個條款\n\n33\n00:12:26,846 --> 00:12:35,609\n所謂的這個條款就是像韓國跟美國他本來就有自由貿易協定所以工具機他輸美是零關稅對不對韓國他的貿易協定他輸美工具機的部分他是零關稅嘛\n\n34\n00:12:44,383 --> 00:12:47,405\n所以就只有15%要確認基本上應該是零關稅對那韓國很清楚的知道他的最大的競爭對手就是台灣而且工具機也是台灣非常一個非常重要非常優質的產業也非常具有競爭力可是如果是這樣的狀況而且我們的經貿辦還自先底牌說要比日韓低之前我們說要比日韓低所以你這個就已經是給川普以韓治台\n\n35\n00:13:13,658 --> 00:13:16,782\n或者以台制韓這樣的機會不是嗎因為我們把底牌通先了我們一開始台積電買天然氣然後軍售款然後我們要多少的一個採購的金額然後我們要做什麼樣的付出都已經都先跟人家講了而且你都已經談了\n\n36\n00:13:31,420 --> 00:13:37,925\n結果你到最後我們自己連談的籌碼都沒有我們還叫我們說還好好的睡一覺結果一覺醒來都不是這個樣子到現在還在暫時性的談判還在滾動性的可是我剛剛提到的這個以韓治台或者以台治韓的這樣的機會這個難怪韓國一談定台灣就變成暫時性的了因為他可以再對我們予取予求了\n\n37\n00:13:55,658 --> 00:14:02,919\n今天如果韓國他15%他還不用疊加那我們還可以跟他競爭什麼所以行政部門花人民的納稅錢請中金院台金院做衝擊影響的評估就是幫政府來罵人民笨然後自己沒有看清楚的是這樣嗎我要要求行政院到底花多少錢請中金院做這個評估這個資訊也請會後提供給本席好不好好謝謝\n\n38\n00:14:25,909 --> 00:14:25,970\n謝謝馬文經委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2328\t8614\t謝謝主席麻煩請外交部陳次長還有我們經貿辦的副總談判代表謝謝\n23390\t41465\t委員好 大家早我想請教一下因為我們今天特別關注的其實還是在台美關稅談判持續在進行的這個部分當中那我們到底卡關是在哪裡因為其實有所有的委員大概也都提到大家關心的是我們現在這個是暫時性的20%還有疊加的部分\n49292\t58240\t另外我們在可能已經把很多的籌碼我們都已經把它公布出去甚至已經送出去了比如說像台積電台積電的投資額度等等然後還有我們現在的投資金額雖然我們還\n64525\t75473\t不是很明確的政府也沒有告訴我們投資金額到底是多少可是我們這個也是有一些露出那另外還有包括天然氣因為外交部還興高采烈的在日韓他們都還沒有提到這個部分的時候我們已經去做了投資然後還有軍售的部分那像這些都已經在\n88462\t96127\t很重要的籌碼我們都已經在很早的時候我們都已經把它送出去那現在比較大的問題到底是什麼\n97956\t120466\t跟委員報告我想對於台美談判現在應該沒有所謂卡關的問題因為我們在前一次在7月底的時候赴美做實體諮商之後那即便是在7月31號美國公布了20%的這個暫時性關稅之後我們上週仍然持續跟美國有在進行線上的會議那所以我們持續積極跟美國在進行協商\n125228\t148935\t那也跟委員報告的就是目前我們還沒有完全取得台美最後的這個共識最主要的原因也就是我們希望可以爭取把232的這個調查內容特別是對於半導體這一個調查可以納入對等關稅的這個談判一併去處理那這樣可以處理我們的供應鏈合作\n149403\t170262\t也可以比较大幅的实质的去解决可能在台美贸易逆差的问题虽然我们现在刚刚副总谈判代表有提到这个部分说我们供应链的这个部分其实我想这个先前应该也有初步讨论过了因为我们不管在可能无人机或者其他的\n170822\t179245\t一些相關的這些產品我們要怎麼樣合作大概也都提到所以我想就這個部分反正我們現在還在進行當中我們就來討論幾個議題順便就叫我們次長還有我們副總談判代表我們先來談談保密的部分好了行政部門一直堅稱說國際慣例要加上台美簽有保密協定所以\n196371\t200754\t即使我們所有的產業還有全體國人都還有包括我們整個立法委員都被完全保密的情況之下什麼都不知道那我想要請教的是政府院長辦公室的人他一定有幫忙處理台美談判然後也有跟著去華府談判知道的可能都比我們所有的立法委員多是不是有沒有\n224075\t246605\t政府院長談判辦公室有沒有人一起去參與這樣子的談判或者協助所有的行政事務有沒有跟委員報告我想我們的談判團隊就是由談判小組來決定我現在說的是政府院長辦公室的人他有幫忙處理嘛你在處理的過程當中所有的文件資料所有相關的談判內容他們是不是也知道\n248234\t265928\t我想我們的談判基本上按照保密協議就是由授權的人員他可以去接觸到文件那我覺得副院長辦公室的人員如果有經過授權那這個是由副院長他有經過授權那我們就來請教一下他們有沒有經過特殊的安全查核有沒有有沒有說有沒有就好不好意思有沒有就好\n276220\t279761\t這個部分可能要會後我請我們的長官再跟您做進一步的我們在開會我們在監督我們在審查過去不管是哪一樣的協定其實都有提到這個部分還包括開機密會議連巡打都是用機密的這已經是沒有辦法監督剛剛還說可以監督這完全沒有辦法第一個我要請問的他有沒有經過特殊的安全查核第二個他們有沒有依照國家機密保護法\n306047\t314571\t申請出境這應該都沒有在保密的協定所規範的內容這個部分相關的證明在會後提供給本席好不好那第二個我再請教一下美國媒體報導川普利用我們貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算\n326437\t343549\t基本上我們所有的委員也都支持軍人待遇條例加薪國軍志願役的這個部分我們也希望透過這樣子的加薪性更多優秀的人才投入國防不過鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說已經向美方表達總統賴清德他宣示國防預算要達到超過GDP3%以上的目標那因此在談判中沒有進一步討論\n356505\t367092\t是嗎這是政府院長在記者會上面所說明的他說的所以那這就是表示媒體美國的媒體報導是不正確的囉因為美國的媒體報導說川普會利用貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算可是我們的副院長他說在談判的內容裡面並沒有這一項\n378746\t381328\t這個部分表示未來我們跟美國簽約的時候不管是像印尼一樣的先簽一個共同聲明或是簽一個更完整的協定他都不會有關於我們國防預算應該是多少的條款是這樣嗎\n397292\t415070\t就如同政府院長說的我們在會議上面已經重申了我們的總統重申我們接下來的國防預算會提高到GDP 3%所以這就是台灣的既定政策方向對 所以我們的條款裡面就不會再寫上這一條嘛 對不對\n416912\t421815\t我想這個我們現在談判都在進行當中沒有因為你總是有一個標準啦因為你說你已經沒有在裡面談判了那你沒有談判你就不會寫在上面你已經告訴他會在GDP3%以上了你只是這樣講那已經沒有在談判的內容裡面了我們不知道多少你也許說5%或多少不知道那你現在如果按照政府院長的說法那就是不會寫在我們的不管是聲明也好協定也好\n447264\t450026\t外交部回答一下好不好因為這個有條約締結法你們是主管機關在這裡請教一個問題剛剛經貿辦提到的這個部分你說還在進行當中可是副院長說這個不會在談判的內容裡面那不會在談判的內容裡面就不會寫在這個條款裡面萬一未來在這個條款裡面他們已經有他寫上這個金額或者他的經費數字的話怎麼辦\n477213\t480376\t報告委員 具體的談判還是由談判團隊來負責對於具體內容沒有因為你們說沒有啊副院長他是主談的一個代表他說在我們談判的過程當中沒有這一項在這裡我們看到行政團會團隊跟談判代表已經逾越權責\n500836\t508241\t他說預算多少其實這個不是行政團隊或誰說了算所有預算還是必須經過立法院的啊所以你在談判的時候你說沒有談可是萬一你寫下去那這個整個協定它會不會生效如果不被同意的時候這個協定或者這個條款會不會生效\n523697\t544923\t報告委員那兩件事第一個是說其實以副院長說的為準因為那個我們外交部並沒有參與到實際的這個談判第一線的工作第二那麼相關的這個談判的一個結果那麼牽涉到這個預算的這個審查這一定是這個遵循這個相關的規定這個預算本來就是要透過立法院來決定\n545823\t551427\t或是談判的這個最終的一個結果按照他的性質剛剛你提到這個必須要預算要經過立法院嘛那談判的過程當中以正副院長他所說的為主那他就是說在這個談判裡面我們的國防預算並沒有納在這裡面談判所以萬一他有在裡面出現的時候他就是沒有不生效的囉\n572999\t578822\t那個生不生效我想還是要由立法院來做審議因為你總是只有一個方向嘛副院長就說沒有談判那你沒談判你還把他寫在裡面是人家說了算嗎是美國說了算嗎我說你3%就3%我說你3.5%就3.5%我說你1兆5你就1兆5嗎你既然沒有談判你就不會寫在這裡面如果他寫在這裡面那這條款會不會生效嘛你是主管機關會不會生效\n600953\t605559\t那我們把會把所有的這個談判的結果送到這個我們沒有要等結果我們現在談的是這一個部分這個部分在盡快的時間會後你也把我們剛剛詢問的問題把這個狀況可以提供給本席好不好\n616394\t620897\t因為時間的關係我再借用一點時間鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說了很多非關稅貿易障礙美豬美牛都是必考題這個大家都知道所以因為這些都是美國公開的報告所以這個騙不了人可是鄭副院長並沒有講到說他降稅的部分我們雖然犧牲了美豬美牛可是他沒有降稅那美國到底跟我們要求多少項產品的降稅\n643092\t646856\t我想請教副總談判代表比如說雞肉有沒有降稅\n648783\t671637\t跟委員報告我想所有的議題都是在這個動態發展當中所以很確定的有沒有談到肌肉有沒有降稅因為肌肉對我們台灣所有的養雞的產業非常非常重要我們尤其我們台灣人還有包括我們很多的食品其實他跟肌肉其實相關有沒有談到肌肉告訴我們有沒有談到肌肉就好我想美國有沒有要求\n675739\t678722\t各位委員報告我想所有的議題都在動態發展當中如果只是這樣來交代你到現在對人民都不敢說雞肉我剛剛說他對我們所有的人民至關重大他所有的產業的傷害也非常重大如果你們沒有要用這樣子說還在動態的發展連這個都不敢說會引起更大的反彈而且\n698197\t702458\t大家對於這樣的黑箱的談判會更不能接受這個部分我想你們再考慮一下有些部分必須要人民做更好的因應跟準備這不是雞你養了就馬上可以大家投資很多的成本大家做了很多的付出你應該讓他們可以有因應跟準備的一個時間這個部分我想也沒有什麼美國如果要求我們就是要應對我們就是要談嘛\n725186\t729350\t那你要談到什麼樣的結果那是另外一回事可是到底肌肉有沒有在這個降稅的這個部分裡面應該要提早讓人民知道不然你受到的反彈會非常大尤其對我們現在的執政黨最後一個問題我再請教一下中金院長連名顯說韓國花了3500億美元投資美國都沒有換到這個條款\n746846\t755609\t所謂的這個條款就是像韓國跟美國他本來就有自由貿易協定所以工具機他輸美是零關稅對不對韓國他的貿易協定他輸美工具機的部分他是零關稅嘛\n764383\t767405\t所以就只有15%要確認基本上應該是零關稅對 那韓國很清楚的知道他的最大的競爭對手就是台灣而且工具機也是台灣非常一個非常重要非常優質的產業也非常具有競爭力可是如果是這樣的狀況而且我們的經貿辦還自先底牌說要比日韓低之前我們說要比日韓低所以你這個就已經是給川普以韓治台\n793658\t796782\t或者以台制韓這樣的機會不是嗎因為我們把底牌通先了我們一開始台積電買天然氣然後軍售款然後我們要多少的一個採購的金額然後我們要做什麼樣的付出都已經都先跟人家講了而且你都已經談了\n811420\t817925\t結果你到最後我們自己連談的籌碼都沒有我們還叫我們說還好好的睡一覺結果一覺醒來都不是這個樣子到現在還在暫時性的談判還在滾動性的可是我剛剛提到的這個以韓治台或者以台治韓的這樣的機會這個難怪韓國一談定台灣就變成暫時性的了因為他可以再對我們予取予求了\n835658\t842919\t今天如果韓國他15%他還不用疊加那我們還可以跟他競爭什麼所以行政部門花人民的納稅錢請中金院台金院做衝擊影響的評估就是幫政府來罵人民笨然後自己沒有看清楚的是這樣嗎我要要求行政院到底花多少錢請中金院做這個評估這個資訊也請會後提供給本席好不好好謝謝\n865909\t865970\t謝謝馬文經委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席麻煩請外交部陳次長還有我們經貿辦的副總談判代表謝謝\n委員好 大家早我想請教一下因為我們今天特別關注的其實還是在台美關稅談判持續在進行的這個部分當中那我們到底卡關是在哪裡因為其實有所有的委員大概也都提到大家關心的是我們現在這個是暫時性的20%還有疊加的部分\n另外我們在可能已經把很多的籌碼我們都已經把它公布出去甚至已經送出去了比如說像台積電台積電的投資額度等等然後還有我們現在的投資金額雖然我們還\n不是很明確的政府也沒有告訴我們投資金額到底是多少可是我們這個也是有一些露出那另外還有包括天然氣因為外交部還興高采烈的在日韓他們都還沒有提到這個部分的時候我們已經去做了投資然後還有軍售的部分那像這些都已經在\n很重要的籌碼我們都已經在很早的時候我們都已經把它送出去那現在比較大的問題到底是什麼\n跟委員報告我想對於台美談判現在應該沒有所謂卡關的問題因為我們在前一次在7月底的時候赴美做實體諮商之後那即便是在7月31號美國公布了20%的這個暫時性關稅之後我們上週仍然持續跟美國有在進行線上的會議那所以我們持續積極跟美國在進行協商\n那也跟委員報告的就是目前我們還沒有完全取得台美最後的這個共識最主要的原因也就是我們希望可以爭取把232的這個調查內容特別是對於半導體這一個調查可以納入對等關稅的這個談判一併去處理那這樣可以處理我們的供應鏈合作\n也可以比较大幅的实质的去解决可能在台美贸易逆差的问题虽然我们现在刚刚副总谈判代表有提到这个部分说我们供应链的这个部分其实我想这个先前应该也有初步讨论过了因为我们不管在可能无人机或者其他的\n一些相關的這些產品我們要怎麼樣合作大概也都提到所以我想就這個部分反正我們現在還在進行當中我們就來討論幾個議題順便就叫我們次長還有我們副總談判代表我們先來談談保密的部分好了行政部門一直堅稱說國際慣例要加上台美簽有保密協定所以\n即使我們所有的產業還有全體國人都還有包括我們整個立法委員都被完全保密的情況之下什麼都不知道那我想要請教的是政府院長辦公室的人他一定有幫忙處理台美談判然後也有跟著去華府談判知道的可能都比我們所有的立法委員多是不是有沒有\n政府院長談判辦公室有沒有人一起去參與這樣子的談判或者協助所有的行政事務有沒有跟委員報告我想我們的談判團隊就是由談判小組來決定我現在說的是政府院長辦公室的人他有幫忙處理嘛你在處理的過程當中所有的文件資料所有相關的談判內容他們是不是也知道\n我想我們的談判基本上按照保密協議就是由授權的人員他可以去接觸到文件那我覺得副院長辦公室的人員如果有經過授權那這個是由副院長他有經過授權那我們就來請教一下他們有沒有經過特殊的安全查核有沒有有沒有說有沒有就好不好意思有沒有就好\n這個部分可能要會後我請我們的長官再跟您做進一步的我們在開會我們在監督我們在審查過去不管是哪一樣的協定其實都有提到這個部分還包括開機密會議連巡打都是用機密的這已經是沒有辦法監督剛剛還說可以監督這完全沒有辦法第一個我要請問的他有沒有經過特殊的安全查核第二個他們有沒有依照國家機密保護法\n申請出境這應該都沒有在保密的協定所規範的內容這個部分相關的證明在會後提供給本席好不好那第二個我再請教一下美國媒體報導川普利用我們貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算\n基本上我們所有的委員也都支持軍人待遇條例加薪國軍志願役的這個部分我們也希望透過這樣子的加薪性更多優秀的人才投入國防不過鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說已經向美方表達總統賴清德他宣示國防預算要達到超過GDP3%以上的目標那因此在談判中沒有進一步討論\n是嗎這是政府院長在記者會上面所說明的他說的所以那這就是表示媒體美國的媒體報導是不正確的囉因為美國的媒體報導說川普會利用貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算可是我們的副院長他說在談判的內容裡面並沒有這一項\n這個部分表示未來我們跟美國簽約的時候不管是像印尼一樣的先簽一個共同聲明或是簽一個更完整的協定他都不會有關於我們國防預算應該是多少的條款是這樣嗎\n就如同政府院長說的我們在會議上面已經重申了我們的總統重申我們接下來的國防預算會提高到GDP 3%所以這就是台灣的既定政策方向對 所以我們的條款裡面就不會再寫上這一條嘛 對不對\n我想這個我們現在談判都在進行當中沒有因為你總是有一個標準啦因為你說你已經沒有在裡面談判了那你沒有談判你就不會寫在上面你已經告訴他會在GDP3%以上了你只是這樣講那已經沒有在談判的內容裡面了我們不知道多少你也許說5%或多少不知道那你現在如果按照政府院長的說法那就是不會寫在我們的不管是聲明也好協定也好\n外交部回答一下好不好因為這個有條約締結法你們是主管機關在這裡請教一個問題剛剛經貿辦提到的這個部分你說還在進行當中可是副院長說這個不會在談判的內容裡面那不會在談判的內容裡面就不會寫在這個條款裡面萬一未來在這個條款裡面他們已經有他寫上這個金額或者他的經費數字的話怎麼辦\n報告委員 具體的談判還是由談判團隊來負責對於具體內容沒有因為你們說沒有啊副院長他是主談的一個代表他說在我們談判的過程當中沒有這一項在這裡我們看到行政團會團隊跟談判代表已經逾越權責\n他說預算多少其實這個不是行政團隊或誰說了算所有預算還是必須經過立法院的啊所以你在談判的時候你說沒有談可是萬一你寫下去那這個整個協定它會不會生效如果不被同意的時候這個協定或者這個條款會不會生效\n報告委員那兩件事第一個是說其實以副院長說的為準因為那個我們外交部並沒有參與到實際的這個談判第一線的工作第二那麼相關的這個談判的一個結果那麼牽涉到這個預算的這個審查這一定是這個遵循這個相關的規定這個預算本來就是要透過立法院來決定\n或是談判的這個最終的一個結果按照他的性質剛剛你提到這個必須要預算要經過立法院嘛那談判的過程當中以正副院長他所說的為主那他就是說在這個談判裡面我們的國防預算並沒有納在這裡面談判所以萬一他有在裡面出現的時候他就是沒有不生效的囉\n那個生不生效我想還是要由立法院來做審議因為你總是只有一個方向嘛副院長就說沒有談判那你沒談判你還把他寫在裡面是人家說了算嗎是美國說了算嗎我說你3%就3%我說你3.5%就3.5%我說你1兆5你就1兆5嗎你既然沒有談判你就不會寫在這裡面如果他寫在這裡面那這條款會不會生效嘛你是主管機關會不會生效\n那我們把會把所有的這個談判的結果送到這個我們沒有要等結果我們現在談的是這一個部分這個部分在盡快的時間會後你也把我們剛剛詢問的問題把這個狀況可以提供給本席好不好\n因為時間的關係我再借用一點時間鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說了很多非關稅貿易障礙美豬美牛都是必考題這個大家都知道所以因為這些都是美國公開的報告所以這個騙不了人可是鄭副院長並沒有講到說他降稅的部分我們雖然犧牲了美豬美牛可是他沒有降稅那美國到底跟我們要求多少項產品的降稅\n我想請教副總談判代表比如說雞肉有沒有降稅\n跟委員報告我想所有的議題都是在這個動態發展當中所以很確定的有沒有談到肌肉有沒有降稅因為肌肉對我們台灣所有的養雞的產業非常非常重要我們尤其我們台灣人還有包括我們很多的食品其實他跟肌肉其實相關有沒有談到肌肉告訴我們有沒有談到肌肉就好我想美國有沒有要求\n各位委員報告我想所有的議題都在動態發展當中如果只是這樣來交代你到現在對人民都不敢說雞肉我剛剛說他對我們所有的人民至關重大他所有的產業的傷害也非常重大如果你們沒有要用這樣子說還在動態的發展連這個都不敢說會引起更大的反彈而且\n大家對於這樣的黑箱的談判會更不能接受這個部分我想你們再考慮一下有些部分必須要人民做更好的因應跟準備這不是雞你養了就馬上可以大家投資很多的成本大家做了很多的付出你應該讓他們可以有因應跟準備的一個時間這個部分我想也沒有什麼美國如果要求我們就是要應對我們就是要談嘛\n那你要談到什麼樣的結果那是另外一回事可是到底肌肉有沒有在這個降稅的這個部分裡面應該要提早讓人民知道不然你受到的反彈會非常大尤其對我們現在的執政黨最後一個問題我再請教一下中金院長連名顯說韓國花了3500億美元投資美國都沒有換到這個條款\n所謂的這個條款就是像韓國跟美國他本來就有自由貿易協定所以工具機他輸美是零關稅對不對韓國他的貿易協定他輸美工具機的部分他是零關稅嘛\n所以就只有15%要確認基本上應該是零關稅對 那韓國很清楚的知道他的最大的競爭對手就是台灣而且工具機也是台灣非常一個非常重要非常優質的產業也非常具有競爭力可是如果是這樣的狀況而且我們的經貿辦還自先底牌說要比日韓低之前我們說要比日韓低所以你這個就已經是給川普以韓治台\n或者以台制韓這樣的機會不是嗎因為我們把底牌通先了我們一開始台積電買天然氣然後軍售款然後我們要多少的一個採購的金額然後我們要做什麼樣的付出都已經都先跟人家講了而且你都已經談了\n結果你到最後我們自己連談的籌碼都沒有我們還叫我們說還好好的睡一覺結果一覺醒來都不是這個樣子到現在還在暫時性的談判還在滾動性的可是我剛剛提到的這個以韓治台或者以台治韓的這樣的機會這個難怪韓國一談定台灣就變成暫時性的了因為他可以再對我們予取予求了\n今天如果韓國他15%他還不用疊加那我們還可以跟他競爭什麼所以行政部門花人民的納稅錢請中金院台金院做衝擊影響的評估就是幫政府來罵人民笨然後自己沒有看清楚的是這樣嗎我要要求行政院到底花多少錢請中金院做這個評估這個資訊也請會後提供給本席好不好好謝謝\n謝謝馬文經委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.328 --> 00:08.614\n謝謝主席麻煩請外交部陳次長還有我們經貿辦的副總談判代表謝謝\n\n00:23.390 --> 00:41.465\n委員好大家早我想請教一下因為我們今天特別關注的其實還是在台美關稅談判持續在進行的這個部分當中那我們到底卡關是在哪裡因為其實有所有的委員大概也都提到大家關心的是我們現在這個是暫時性的20%還有疊加的部分\n\n00:49.292 --> 00:58.240\n另外我們在可能已經把很多的籌碼我們都已經把它公布出去甚至已經送出去了比如說像台積電台積電的投資額度等等然後還有我們現在的投資金額雖然我們還\n\n01:04.525 --> 01:15.473\n不是很明確的政府也沒有告訴我們投資金額到底是多少可是我們這個也是有一些露出那另外還有包括天然氣因為外交部還興高采烈的在日韓他們都還沒有提到這個部分的時候我們已經去做了投資然後還有軍售的部分那像這些都已經在\n\n01:28.462 --> 01:36.127\n很重要的籌碼我們都已經在很早的時候我們都已經把它送出去那現在比較大的問題到底是什麼\n\n01:37.956 --> 02:00.466\n跟委員報告我想對於台美談判現在應該沒有所謂卡關的問題因為我們在前一次在7月底的時候赴美做實體諮商之後那即便是在7月31號美國公布了20%的這個暫時性關稅之後我們上週仍然持續跟美國有在進行線上的會議那所以我們持續積極跟美國在進行協商\n\n02:05.228 --> 02:28.935\n那也跟委員報告的就是目前我們還沒有完全取得台美最後的這個共識最主要的原因也就是我們希望可以爭取把232的這個調查內容特別是對於半導體這一個調查可以納入對等關稅的這個談判一併去處理那這樣可以處理我們的供應鏈合作\n\n02:29.403 --> 02:50.262\n也可以比较大幅的实质的去解决可能在台美贸易逆差的问题虽然我们现在刚刚副总谈判代表有提到这个部分说我们供应链的这个部分其实我想这个先前应该也有初步讨论过了因为我们不管在可能无人机或者其他的\n\n02:50.822 --> 02:59.245\n一些相關的這些產品我們要怎麼樣合作大概也都提到所以我想就這個部分反正我們現在還在進行當中我們就來討論幾個議題順便就叫我們次長還有我們副總談判代表我們先來談談保密的部分好了行政部門一直堅稱說國際慣例要加上台美簽有保密協定所以\n\n03:16.371 --> 03:20.754\n即使我們所有的產業還有全體國人都還有包括我們整個立法委員都被完全保密的情況之下什麼都不知道那我想要請教的是政府院長辦公室的人他一定有幫忙處理台美談判然後也有跟著去華府談判知道的可能都比我們所有的立法委員多是不是有沒有\n\n03:44.075 --> 04:06.605\n政府院長談判辦公室有沒有人一起去參與這樣子的談判或者協助所有的行政事務有沒有跟委員報告我想我們的談判團隊就是由談判小組來決定我現在說的是政府院長辦公室的人他有幫忙處理嘛你在處理的過程當中所有的文件資料所有相關的談判內容他們是不是也知道\n\n04:08.234 --> 04:25.928\n我想我們的談判基本上按照保密協議就是由授權的人員他可以去接觸到文件那我覺得副院長辦公室的人員如果有經過授權那這個是由副院長他有經過授權那我們就來請教一下他們有沒有經過特殊的安全查核有沒有有沒有說有沒有就好不好意思有沒有就好\n\n04:36.220 --> 04:39.761\n這個部分可能要會後我請我們的長官再跟您做進一步的我們在開會我們在監督我們在審查過去不管是哪一樣的協定其實都有提到這個部分還包括開機密會議連巡打都是用機密的這已經是沒有辦法監督剛剛還說可以監督這完全沒有辦法第一個我要請問的他有沒有經過特殊的安全查核第二個他們有沒有依照國家機密保護法\n\n05:06.047 --> 05:14.571\n申請出境這應該都沒有在保密的協定所規範的內容這個部分相關的證明在會後提供給本席好不好那第二個我再請教一下美國媒體報導川普利用我們貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算\n\n05:26.437 --> 05:43.549\n基本上我們所有的委員也都支持軍人待遇條例加薪國軍志願役的這個部分我們也希望透過這樣子的加薪性更多優秀的人才投入國防不過鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說已經向美方表達總統賴清德他宣示國防預算要達到超過GDP3%以上的目標那因此在談判中沒有進一步討論\n\n05:56.505 --> 06:07.092\n是嗎這是政府院長在記者會上面所說明的他說的所以那這就是表示媒體美國的媒體報導是不正確的囉因為美國的媒體報導說川普會利用貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算可是我們的副院長他說在談判的內容裡面並沒有這一項\n\n06:18.746 --> 06:21.328\n這個部分表示未來我們跟美國簽約的時候不管是像印尼一樣的先簽一個共同聲明或是簽一個更完整的協定他都不會有關於我們國防預算應該是多少的條款是這樣嗎\n\n06:37.292 --> 06:55.070\n就如同政府院長說的我們在會議上面已經重申了我們的總統重申我們接下來的國防預算會提高到GDP3%所以這就是台灣的既定政策方向對所以我們的條款裡面就不會再寫上這一條嘛對不對\n\n06:56.912 --> 07:01.815\n我想這個我們現在談判都在進行當中沒有因為你總是有一個標準啦因為你說你已經沒有在裡面談判了那你沒有談判你就不會寫在上面你已經告訴他會在GDP3%以上了你只是這樣講那已經沒有在談判的內容裡面了我們不知道多少你也許說5%或多少不知道那你現在如果按照政府院長的說法那就是不會寫在我們的不管是聲明也好協定也好\n\n07:27.264 --> 07:30.026\n外交部回答一下好不好因為這個有條約締結法你們是主管機關在這裡請教一個問題剛剛經貿辦提到的這個部分你說還在進行當中可是副院長說這個不會在談判的內容裡面那不會在談判的內容裡面就不會寫在這個條款裡面萬一未來在這個條款裡面他們已經有他寫上這個金額或者他的經費數字的話怎麼辦\n\n07:57.213 --> 08:00.376\n報告委員具體的談判還是由談判團隊來負責對於具體內容沒有因為你們說沒有啊副院長他是主談的一個代表他說在我們談判的過程當中沒有這一項在這裡我們看到行政團會團隊跟談判代表已經逾越權責\n\n08:20.836 --> 08:28.241\n他說預算多少其實這個不是行政團隊或誰說了算所有預算還是必須經過立法院的啊所以你在談判的時候你說沒有談可是萬一你寫下去那這個整個協定它會不會生效如果不被同意的時候這個協定或者這個條款會不會生效\n\n08:43.697 --> 09:04.923\n報告委員那兩件事第一個是說其實以副院長說的為準因為那個我們外交部並沒有參與到實際的這個談判第一線的工作第二那麼相關的這個談判的一個結果那麼牽涉到這個預算的這個審查這一定是這個遵循這個相關的規定這個預算本來就是要透過立法院來決定\n\n09:05.823 --> 09:11.427\n或是談判的這個最終的一個結果按照他的性質剛剛你提到這個必須要預算要經過立法院嘛那談判的過程當中以正副院長他所說的為主那他就是說在這個談判裡面我們的國防預算並沒有納在這裡面談判所以萬一他有在裡面出現的時候他就是沒有不生效的囉\n\n09:32.999 --> 09:38.822\n那個生不生效我想還是要由立法院來做審議因為你總是只有一個方向嘛副院長就說沒有談判那你沒談判你還把他寫在裡面是人家說了算嗎是美國說了算嗎我說你3%就3%我說你3.5%就3.5%我說你1兆5你就1兆5嗎你既然沒有談判你就不會寫在這裡面如果他寫在這裡面那這條款會不會生效嘛你是主管機關會不會生效\n\n10:00.953 --> 10:05.559\n那我們把會把所有的這個談判的結果送到這個我們沒有要等結果我們現在談的是這一個部分這個部分在盡快的時間會後你也把我們剛剛詢問的問題把這個狀況可以提供給本席好不好\n\n10:16.394 --> 10:20.897\n因為時間的關係我再借用一點時間鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說了很多非關稅貿易障礙美豬美牛都是必考題這個大家都知道所以因為這些都是美國公開的報告所以這個騙不了人可是鄭副院長並沒有講到說他降稅的部分我們雖然犧牲了美豬美牛可是他沒有降稅那美國到底跟我們要求多少項產品的降稅\n\n10:43.092 --> 10:46.856\n我想請教副總談判代表比如說雞肉有沒有降稅\n\n10:48.783 --> 11:11.637\n跟委員報告我想所有的議題都是在這個動態發展當中所以很確定的有沒有談到肌肉有沒有降稅因為肌肉對我們台灣所有的養雞的產業非常非常重要我們尤其我們台灣人還有包括我們很多的食品其實他跟肌肉其實相關有沒有談到肌肉告訴我們有沒有談到肌肉就好我想美國有沒有要求\n\n11:15.739 --> 11:18.722\n各位委員報告我想所有的議題都在動態發展當中如果只是這樣來交代你到現在對人民都不敢說雞肉我剛剛說他對我們所有的人民至關重大他所有的產業的傷害也非常重大如果你們沒有要用這樣子說還在動態的發展連這個都不敢說會引起更大的反彈而且\n\n11:38.197 --> 11:42.458\n大家對於這樣的黑箱的談判會更不能接受這個部分我想你們再考慮一下有些部分必須要人民做更好的因應跟準備這不是雞你養了就馬上可以大家投資很多的成本大家做了很多的付出你應該讓他們可以有因應跟準備的一個時間這個部分我想也沒有什麼美國如果要求我們就是要應對我們就是要談嘛\n\n12:05.186 --> 12:09.350\n那你要談到什麼樣的結果那是另外一回事可是到底肌肉有沒有在這個降稅的這個部分裡面應該要提早讓人民知道不然你受到的反彈會非常大尤其對我們現在的執政黨最後一個問題我再請教一下中金院長連名顯說韓國花了3500億美元投資美國都沒有換到這個條款\n\n12:26.846 --> 12:35.609\n所謂的這個條款就是像韓國跟美國他本來就有自由貿易協定所以工具機他輸美是零關稅對不對韓國他的貿易協定他輸美工具機的部分他是零關稅嘛\n\n12:44.383 --> 12:47.405\n所以就只有15%要確認基本上應該是零關稅對那韓國很清楚的知道他的最大的競爭對手就是台灣而且工具機也是台灣非常一個非常重要非常優質的產業也非常具有競爭力可是如果是這樣的狀況而且我們的經貿辦還自先底牌說要比日韓低之前我們說要比日韓低所以你這個就已經是給川普以韓治台\n\n13:13.658 --> 13:16.782\n或者以台制韓這樣的機會不是嗎因為我們把底牌通先了我們一開始台積電買天然氣然後軍售款然後我們要多少的一個採購的金額然後我們要做什麼樣的付出都已經都先跟人家講了而且你都已經談了\n\n13:31.420 --> 13:37.925\n結果你到最後我們自己連談的籌碼都沒有我們還叫我們說還好好的睡一覺結果一覺醒來都不是這個樣子到現在還在暫時性的談判還在滾動性的可是我剛剛提到的這個以韓治台或者以台治韓的這樣的機會這個難怪韓國一談定台灣就變成暫時性的了因為他可以再對我們予取予求了\n\n13:55.658 --> 14:02.919\n今天如果韓國他15%他還不用疊加那我們還可以跟他競爭什麼所以行政部門花人民的納稅錢請中金院台金院做衝擊影響的評估就是幫政府來罵人民笨然後自己沒有看清楚的是這樣嗎我要要求行政院到底花多少錢請中金院做這個評估這個資訊也請會後提供給本席好不好好謝謝\n\n14:25.909 --> 14:25.970\n謝謝馬文經委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.328,"end":8.614,"text":"謝謝主席麻煩請外交部陳次長還有我們經貿辦的副總談判代表謝謝"},{"start":23.39,"end":41.465,"text":"委員好 大家早我想請教一下因為我們今天特別關注的其實還是在台美關稅談判持續在進行的這個部分當中那我們到底卡關是在哪裡因為其實有所有的委員大概也都提到大家關心的是我們現在這個是暫時性的20%還有疊加的部分"},{"start":49.292,"end":58.24,"text":"另外我們在可能已經把很多的籌碼我們都已經把它公布出去甚至已經送出去了比如說像台積電台積電的投資額度等等然後還有我們現在的投資金額雖然我們還"},{"start":64.525,"end":75.473,"text":"不是很明確的政府也沒有告訴我們投資金額到底是多少可是我們這個也是有一些露出那另外還有包括天然氣因為外交部還興高采烈的在日韓他們都還沒有提到這個部分的時候我們已經去做了投資然後還有軍售的部分那像這些都已經在"},{"start":88.462,"end":96.127,"text":"很重要的籌碼我們都已經在很早的時候我們都已經把它送出去那現在比較大的問題到底是什麼"},{"start":97.956,"end":120.466,"text":"跟委員報告我想對於台美談判現在應該沒有所謂卡關的問題因為我們在前一次在7月底的時候赴美做實體諮商之後那即便是在7月31號美國公布了20%的這個暫時性關稅之後我們上週仍然持續跟美國有在進行線上的會議那所以我們持續積極跟美國在進行協商"},{"start":125.228,"end":148.935,"text":"那也跟委員報告的就是目前我們還沒有完全取得台美最後的這個共識最主要的原因也就是我們希望可以爭取把232的這個調查內容特別是對於半導體這一個調查可以納入對等關稅的這個談判一併去處理那這樣可以處理我們的供應鏈合作"},{"start":149.403,"end":170.262,"text":"也可以比较大幅的实质的去解决可能在台美贸易逆差的问题虽然我们现在刚刚副总谈判代表有提到这个部分说我们供应链的这个部分其实我想这个先前应该也有初步讨论过了因为我们不管在可能无人机或者其他的"},{"start":170.822,"end":179.245,"text":"一些相關的這些產品我們要怎麼樣合作大概也都提到所以我想就這個部分反正我們現在還在進行當中我們就來討論幾個議題順便就叫我們次長還有我們副總談判代表我們先來談談保密的部分好了行政部門一直堅稱說國際慣例要加上台美簽有保密協定所以"},{"start":196.371,"end":200.754,"text":"即使我們所有的產業還有全體國人都還有包括我們整個立法委員都被完全保密的情況之下什麼都不知道那我想要請教的是政府院長辦公室的人他一定有幫忙處理台美談判然後也有跟著去華府談判知道的可能都比我們所有的立法委員多是不是有沒有"},{"start":224.075,"end":246.605,"text":"政府院長談判辦公室有沒有人一起去參與這樣子的談判或者協助所有的行政事務有沒有跟委員報告我想我們的談判團隊就是由談判小組來決定我現在說的是政府院長辦公室的人他有幫忙處理嘛你在處理的過程當中所有的文件資料所有相關的談判內容他們是不是也知道"},{"start":248.234,"end":265.928,"text":"我想我們的談判基本上按照保密協議就是由授權的人員他可以去接觸到文件那我覺得副院長辦公室的人員如果有經過授權那這個是由副院長他有經過授權那我們就來請教一下他們有沒有經過特殊的安全查核有沒有有沒有說有沒有就好不好意思有沒有就好"},{"start":276.22,"end":279.761,"text":"這個部分可能要會後我請我們的長官再跟您做進一步的我們在開會我們在監督我們在審查過去不管是哪一樣的協定其實都有提到這個部分還包括開機密會議連巡打都是用機密的這已經是沒有辦法監督剛剛還說可以監督這完全沒有辦法第一個我要請問的他有沒有經過特殊的安全查核第二個他們有沒有依照國家機密保護法"},{"start":306.047,"end":314.571,"text":"申請出境這應該都沒有在保密的協定所規範的內容這個部分相關的證明在會後提供給本席好不好那第二個我再請教一下美國媒體報導川普利用我們貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算"},{"start":326.437,"end":343.549,"text":"基本上我們所有的委員也都支持軍人待遇條例加薪國軍志願役的這個部分我們也希望透過這樣子的加薪性更多優秀的人才投入國防不過鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說已經向美方表達總統賴清德他宣示國防預算要達到超過GDP3%以上的目標那因此在談判中沒有進一步討論"},{"start":356.505,"end":367.092,"text":"是嗎這是政府院長在記者會上面所說明的他說的所以那這就是表示媒體美國的媒體報導是不正確的囉因為美國的媒體報導說川普會利用貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算可是我們的副院長他說在談判的內容裡面並沒有這一項"},{"start":378.746,"end":381.328,"text":"這個部分表示未來我們跟美國簽約的時候不管是像印尼一樣的先簽一個共同聲明或是簽一個更完整的協定他都不會有關於我們國防預算應該是多少的條款是這樣嗎"},{"start":397.292,"end":415.07,"text":"就如同政府院長說的我們在會議上面已經重申了我們的總統重申我們接下來的國防預算會提高到GDP 3%所以這就是台灣的既定政策方向對 所以我們的條款裡面就不會再寫上這一條嘛 對不對"},{"start":416.912,"end":421.815,"text":"我想這個我們現在談判都在進行當中沒有因為你總是有一個標準啦因為你說你已經沒有在裡面談判了那你沒有談判你就不會寫在上面你已經告訴他會在GDP3%以上了你只是這樣講那已經沒有在談判的內容裡面了我們不知道多少你也許說5%或多少不知道那你現在如果按照政府院長的說法那就是不會寫在我們的不管是聲明也好協定也好"},{"start":447.264,"end":450.026,"text":"外交部回答一下好不好因為這個有條約締結法你們是主管機關在這裡請教一個問題剛剛經貿辦提到的這個部分你說還在進行當中可是副院長說這個不會在談判的內容裡面那不會在談判的內容裡面就不會寫在這個條款裡面萬一未來在這個條款裡面他們已經有他寫上這個金額或者他的經費數字的話怎麼辦"},{"start":477.213,"end":480.376,"text":"報告委員 具體的談判還是由談判團隊來負責對於具體內容沒有因為你們說沒有啊副院長他是主談的一個代表他說在我們談判的過程當中沒有這一項在這裡我們看到行政團會團隊跟談判代表已經逾越權責"},{"start":500.836,"end":508.241,"text":"他說預算多少其實這個不是行政團隊或誰說了算所有預算還是必須經過立法院的啊所以你在談判的時候你說沒有談可是萬一你寫下去那這個整個協定它會不會生效如果不被同意的時候這個協定或者這個條款會不會生效"},{"start":523.697,"end":544.923,"text":"報告委員那兩件事第一個是說其實以副院長說的為準因為那個我們外交部並沒有參與到實際的這個談判第一線的工作第二那麼相關的這個談判的一個結果那麼牽涉到這個預算的這個審查這一定是這個遵循這個相關的規定這個預算本來就是要透過立法院來決定"},{"start":545.823,"end":551.427,"text":"或是談判的這個最終的一個結果按照他的性質剛剛你提到這個必須要預算要經過立法院嘛那談判的過程當中以正副院長他所說的為主那他就是說在這個談判裡面我們的國防預算並沒有納在這裡面談判所以萬一他有在裡面出現的時候他就是沒有不生效的囉"},{"start":572.999,"end":578.822,"text":"那個生不生效我想還是要由立法院來做審議因為你總是只有一個方向嘛副院長就說沒有談判那你沒談判你還把他寫在裡面是人家說了算嗎是美國說了算嗎我說你3%就3%我說你3.5%就3.5%我說你1兆5你就1兆5嗎你既然沒有談判你就不會寫在這裡面如果他寫在這裡面那這條款會不會生效嘛你是主管機關會不會生效"},{"start":600.953,"end":605.559,"text":"那我們把會把所有的這個談判的結果送到這個我們沒有要等結果我們現在談的是這一個部分這個部分在盡快的時間會後你也把我們剛剛詢問的問題把這個狀況可以提供給本席好不好"},{"start":616.394,"end":620.897,"text":"因為時間的關係我再借用一點時間鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說了很多非關稅貿易障礙美豬美牛都是必考題這個大家都知道所以因為這些都是美國公開的報告所以這個騙不了人可是鄭副院長並沒有講到說他降稅的部分我們雖然犧牲了美豬美牛可是他沒有降稅那美國到底跟我們要求多少項產品的降稅"},{"start":643.092,"end":646.856,"text":"我想請教副總談判代表比如說雞肉有沒有降稅"},{"start":648.783,"end":671.637,"text":"跟委員報告我想所有的議題都是在這個動態發展當中所以很確定的有沒有談到肌肉有沒有降稅因為肌肉對我們台灣所有的養雞的產業非常非常重要我們尤其我們台灣人還有包括我們很多的食品其實他跟肌肉其實相關有沒有談到肌肉告訴我們有沒有談到肌肉就好我想美國有沒有要求"},{"start":675.739,"end":678.722,"text":"各位委員報告我想所有的議題都在動態發展當中如果只是這樣來交代你到現在對人民都不敢說雞肉我剛剛說他對我們所有的人民至關重大他所有的產業的傷害也非常重大如果你們沒有要用這樣子說還在動態的發展連這個都不敢說會引起更大的反彈而且"},{"start":698.197,"end":702.458,"text":"大家對於這樣的黑箱的談判會更不能接受這個部分我想你們再考慮一下有些部分必須要人民做更好的因應跟準備這不是雞你養了就馬上可以大家投資很多的成本大家做了很多的付出你應該讓他們可以有因應跟準備的一個時間這個部分我想也沒有什麼美國如果要求我們就是要應對我們就是要談嘛"},{"start":725.186,"end":729.35,"text":"那你要談到什麼樣的結果那是另外一回事可是到底肌肉有沒有在這個降稅的這個部分裡面應該要提早讓人民知道不然你受到的反彈會非常大尤其對我們現在的執政黨最後一個問題我再請教一下中金院長連名顯說韓國花了3500億美元投資美國都沒有換到這個條款"},{"start":746.846,"end":755.609,"text":"所謂的這個條款就是像韓國跟美國他本來就有自由貿易協定所以工具機他輸美是零關稅對不對韓國他的貿易協定他輸美工具機的部分他是零關稅嘛"},{"start":764.383,"end":767.405,"text":"所以就只有15%要確認基本上應該是零關稅對 那韓國很清楚的知道他的最大的競爭對手就是台灣而且工具機也是台灣非常一個非常重要非常優質的產業也非常具有競爭力可是如果是這樣的狀況而且我們的經貿辦還自先底牌說要比日韓低之前我們說要比日韓低所以你這個就已經是給川普以韓治台"},{"start":793.658,"end":796.782,"text":"或者以台制韓這樣的機會不是嗎因為我們把底牌通先了我們一開始台積電買天然氣然後軍售款然後我們要多少的一個採購的金額然後我們要做什麼樣的付出都已經都先跟人家講了而且你都已經談了"},{"start":811.42,"end":817.925,"text":"結果你到最後我們自己連談的籌碼都沒有我們還叫我們說還好好的睡一覺結果一覺醒來都不是這個樣子到現在還在暫時性的談判還在滾動性的可是我剛剛提到的這個以韓治台或者以台治韓的這樣的機會這個難怪韓國一談定台灣就變成暫時性的了因為他可以再對我們予取予求了"},{"start":835.658,"end":842.919,"text":"今天如果韓國他15%他還不用疊加那我們還可以跟他競爭什麼所以行政部門花人民的納稅錢請中金院台金院做衝擊影響的評估就是幫政府來罵人民笨然後自己沒有看清楚的是這樣嗎我要要求行政院到底花多少錢請中金院做這個評估這個資訊也請會後提供給本席好不好好謝謝"},{"start":865.909,"end":865.97,"text":"謝謝馬文經委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":296,"blocks":[["馬委員文君：（10時42分）謝謝主席，麻煩請外交部陳次長，還有經貿辦的副總談判代表，謝謝。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：委員好。"],["馬委員文君：大家早。我想請教一下，因為我們今天特別關注的還是臺美關稅談判持續在進行的這部分，我們到底卡關在哪裡？所有的委員大概也都提到，大家關心的是我們現在暫時性的20%，還有疊加的部分，另外，我們可能已經把很多的籌碼公布出去，甚至已經送出去了，像台積電、台積電的投資額度等等，還有我們現在的投資金額，雖然我們還不是很明確，政府也沒有告訴我們投資金額到底是多少，可是這個也有一些露出；另外，還有包括天然氣，因為外交部還興高采烈地在日韓都還沒有提到這個部分的時候，我們已經去做了投資，還有軍售的部分，像這些很重要的籌碼，我們都已經在很早的時候把它送出去，現在比較大的問題到底是什麼？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，對於臺美談判，現在應該沒有所謂卡關的問題，因為我們前一次在7月底的時候赴美實體諮商之後，即便是在7月31號，美國公布20%的暫時性關稅之後，我們上週仍然持續跟美國在進行線上會議，所以我們持續積極跟美國在進行協商。也跟委員報告，目前我們還沒有完全取得臺美最後的共識，最主要的原因也就是我們希望可以爭取把232的調查內容，特別是對於半導體這個調查可以納入對等關稅的談判一併去處理，這樣可以處理我們的供應鏈合作，也可以比較大幅、實質地去解決在臺美貿易逆差的問題。"],["馬委員文君：剛剛副總談判代表有提到我們供應鏈的這部分，我想先前應該也有初步討論過了，因為我們不管在無人機或者其他的一些相關產品，我們要怎麼樣合作大概也都提到，所以我想就這個部分，反正我們現在還在進行當中，我們就來討論幾個議題，順便就教次長及副總談判代表。我們先來談談保密的部分好了，行政部門一直堅稱是國際慣例及加上臺美簽有保密協定，即使我們所有的產業還有全體國人，包括整個立法委員都在完全保密的情況之下，什麼都不知道，我想要請教的是鄭副院長辦公室的人一定有幫忙處理臺美談判，也有跟著去華府談判，知道的可能都比我們所有的立法委員多，是不是？有沒有？鄭副院長辦公室有沒有人一起去參與談判，或者協助所有的行政事務，有沒有？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，我們的談判團隊就是由談判小組來決定……"],["馬委員文君：我現在說的是鄭副院長辦公室的人，他有幫忙處理嘛，在處理的過程當中所有的文件資料、所有相關的談判內容，他們是不是也知道？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我想我們的談判基本上按照保密協議，就是由授權的人員可以接觸到文件，副院長辦公室的人員如果有經過授權，這個是由副院長或談判小組來決定。"],["馬委員文君：他有經過授權，我們就來請教一下，他們有沒有經過特殊的安全查核，有沒有？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，這個部分……"],["馬委員文君：有沒有？回答有沒有就好，不好意思。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：這個部分可能會後我請我們的長官再跟您做進一步回復。"],["馬委員文君：我們在開會、我們在監督、我們在審查，過去不管是哪一項的協定，其實都有提到這個部分，還包括開機密會議，連詢答都是用機密的，但這已經是沒有辦法監督，剛剛還說可以監督，這完全沒有辦法。第一個，我要請問他們有沒有經過特殊的安全查核？第二個，他們有沒有依照國家機密保護法申請出境？這應該都沒有在保密協定所規範的內容，這個部分相關的證明在會後提供給本席，好不好？","第二個，我再請教一下，美國媒體報導川普利用我們的貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算，基本上，我們所有的委員也都支持軍人待遇條例加薪國軍志願役的部分，我們也希望透過這樣子的加薪，吸引更多優秀人才投入國防，不過鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說，已經向美方表達總統賴清德宣示國防預算要達到GDP3%以上的目標，因此在談判中沒有進一步討論，是嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：這是鄭副院長在記者會上面所說明的。"],["馬委員文君：他說的。所以這就表示美國的媒體報導是不正確的囉？因為美國的媒體報導川普會利用貿易協定要求各國增加國防預算，可是我們的副院長說在談判內容裡面並沒有這一項，表示未來我們跟美國簽約的時候，不管是像印尼一樣先簽一個共同聲明，或是簽一個更完整的協定，都不會有關於我們國防預算應該是多少的條款，是這樣嗎？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：就如同鄭副院長說的，我們在會議上面已經重申，我們的總統重申接下來的國防預算會提高到GDP3%，這就是臺灣既定政策方向。"],["馬委員文君：對，所以我們的條款裡面就不會再寫上這一條嘛，對不對？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：我們現在談判都在進行當中。"],["馬委員文君：沒有，總是有一個標準，因為你說已經沒有在裡面談判了，那沒有談判就不會寫在上面，你已經告訴他會在GDP3%以上了，你只是這樣講，已經沒有在談判的內容裡面，我們不知道是多少，你也許說5%或多少，不知道，現在如果按照鄭副院長的說法，那就不會寫在不管是聲明也好、協定也好，請外交部回答一下，好不好？因為這個有條約締結法，你們是主管機關，在這裡請教一個問題，剛剛經貿辦提到的這個部分，你說還在進行當中，可是副院長說這個不會在談判的內容裡面。不會在談判的內容裡面，就不會寫在這個條款裡面，萬一未來在這個條款裡面寫上金額或者經費數字的話怎麼辦？"],["陳次長明祺：報告委員，具體的談判還是由談判團隊負責，然後對於具體的內容……"],["馬委員文君：沒有，因為你們說沒有啊！"],["陳次長明祺：但是……"],["馬委員文君：副院長他是主談的代表，他說在我們談判的過程當中沒有這一項，在這裡我們看到行政團隊跟談判代表已經逾越權責，他說預算多少，其實這個不是行政團隊或誰說了算，所有的預算還是必須經過立法院的。"],["陳次長明祺：這當然。"],["馬委員文君：對。所以在談判的時候，你說沒有談，可是萬一你寫下去，那這整個協定會不會生效？"],["陳次長明祺：報告委員……"],["馬委員文君：如果不被同意的時候，這個協定或者這個條款會不會生效？"],["陳次長明祺：報告委員，這要分兩件事：第一個是以副院長說的為準，因為我們外交部並沒有參與到實際談判的第一線工作。第二，相關的談判結果牽涉到預算的審查，這一定是遵循相關的規定，預算本來就是要透過立法院來決定，或是談判的最終結果，按照它的性質我們就會送立法院。"],["馬委員文君：好。剛剛你提到預算必須要經過立法院，談判的過程當中以鄭副院長所說的為主……"],["陳次長明祺：是。"],["馬委員文君：他說在這個談判裡面，我們的國防預算並沒有納在這裡面談判，所以萬一有在裡面出現的時候，就是不生效的囉？"],["陳次長明祺：生不生效我想還是要由立法院來做審議。"],["馬委員文君：因為你總是要有一個方向嘛，副院長就說沒有談判，那沒有談判你還把它寫在裡面，是人家說了算嗎？是美國說了算嗎？我說你3%就3%，我說你3.5%就3.5%，我說你一兆五，你就一兆五嗎？既然沒有談判，就不會寫在這裡面，如果寫在這裡面，那這條款會不會生效嘛？你是主管機關，會不會生效？"],["陳次長明祺：我們會把所有的談判結果送到……"],["馬委員文君：我們沒有要等結果，我們現在談的是這一個部分。這個部分請你儘快在會後，把我剛剛所詢問的問題的狀況提供給本席，好不好？"],["陳次長明祺：是，委員。"],["馬委員文君：因為時間的關係，我再借用一點時間。鄭麗君副院長在記者會上說了很多非關稅貿易障礙，美豬、美牛都是必考題，這個大家都知道。因為這些都是美國公開的報告，所以這個騙不了人，可是鄭副院長並沒有講到降稅的部分。我們雖然犧牲了美豬、美牛，可是他沒有講到降稅，美國到底跟我們要求多少項產品的降稅？我想請教副總談判代表，比如說雞肉有沒有降稅？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，我想所有的議題都是在動態發展當中，所以敢確定的……"],["馬委員文君：有沒有談到雞肉降稅？因為雞肉對我們臺灣所有的養雞產業非常、非常重要，尤其我們臺灣人，還有包括我們很多食品都跟雞肉息息相關，有沒有談到雞肉？告訴我們有沒有談到雞肉就好，美國有沒有要求？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：跟委員報告，我想所有的議題都在動態發展當中，所以……"],["馬委員文君：如果只是這樣來交代，你到現在對人民都不敢說，我剛剛說雞肉對我們所有的人民至關重大，對所有相關產業的傷害也非常重大。如果你們要用還在動態發展這樣來說，連這個都不敢說，會引起更大的反彈，而且大家對於這樣的黑箱談判會更不能接受。這個部分我想你們再考慮一下，有些部分必須要人民做更好的因應跟準備，雞隻不是你養了就馬上可以有收入，大家投資了很多成本，大家做了很多的付出，你應該讓他們可以有因應跟準備的時間。這個部分我想也沒有什麼，美國如果要求，我們就是要應對，我們就是要談嘛！那你要談到什麼樣的結果，那是另外一回事，可是到底雞肉有沒有在降稅的這個部分裡面，應該要提早讓人民知道，不然你受到的反彈會非常大，尤其對我們現在的執政黨。","最後一個問題我再請教一下，中經院院長連賢明說，韓國花了3,500億美元投資美國都沒有換到這個條款，所謂的這個條款就是，像韓國跟美國本來就有自由貿易協定，所以他的工具機輸美是零關稅，對不對？韓國跟美國的貿易協定，他的工具機輸美的部分是不是零關稅？所以就只有15%，對不對？"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：要確認，基本上應該是零關稅。"],["馬委員文君：對。韓國很清楚的知道，他最大的競爭對手就是臺灣，而且工具機也是臺灣一個非常重要、非常優質的產業，也非常具有競爭力。如果是這樣的狀況，而且我們的經貿辦之前還自掀底牌說要比日韓低，你這樣說不就是給川普以韓制臺或者以臺制韓的機會，不是嗎？因為我們把底牌通通掀了，我們一開始就台積電投資、買天然氣，然後軍售款，然後說我們要採購多少金額，然後我們要做什麼樣的付出，都已經先跟人家講了，而且你都已經談了，結果到最後我們自己連談的籌碼都沒有。","政府還說叫我們好好的睡一覺，結果一覺醒來都不是這個樣子，到現在還在暫時性的談判，還在滾動性的。可是我剛剛提到的以韓制臺或者以臺制韓這樣的機會，難怪韓國一談定，臺灣就變成暫時性的了，因為他可以再對我們予取予求了。今天如果韓國是15%，他還不用疊加，那我們還可以跟他競爭什麼？所以行政部門花人民的納稅錢，請中經院、台經院做衝擊影響的評估，就是幫政府來罵人民笨，說是自己沒有看清楚，是這樣嗎？行政院到底花多少錢請中經院做這個評估，我要求這個資訊也請會後提供給本席，好不好？謝謝。"],["顏副總談判代表慧欣：好。"],["主席：謝謝馬文君委員的質詢。接下來我們休息5分鐘。","休息（10時56分）","繼續開會（11時3分）"],["主席：現在開始開會。","接下來由我們賴士葆委員上台質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":46,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-35-25","speakers":["黃仁","徐巧芯","陳永康","羅美玲","陳俊宇","王定宇","沈伯洋","馬文君","賴士葆","林倩綺","黃國昌","陳冠廷","林憶君","林楚茵","蘇清泉"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-14"],"gazette_id":"1147301","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147301_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期外交及國防委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請外交部部長、經濟部次長、財政部次長、農業部次長、行政院經貿談判辦公室副總談判代表\n報告「因應台美關稅及國際局勢變化台美關係互動情形，暨俄烏戰事與以哈衝突外交援助概\n況」，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147301_00001"}}}