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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 905.561, \"end\": 906.121, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 906.121, \"end\": 908.302, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 908.302, \"end\": 908.682, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 908.682, \"end\": 909.043, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 909.043, \"end\": 909.223, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 909.223, \"end\": 909.343, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 909.343, \"end\": 909.483, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 909.483, \"end\": 909.903, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 909.903, \"end\": 910.383, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 910.383, \"end\": 910.503, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 910.503, \"end\": 910.623, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 910.623, \"end\": 911.243, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, 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\"end\": 924.649, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"揭\", \"start\": 924.649, \"end\": 924.789, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"露\", \"start\": 924.789, \"end\": 924.929, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 924.929, \"end\": 924.949, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 928.629, \"end\": 930.134, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"黃\"}, {\"word\": \"珊\", \"start\": 930.134, \"end\": 930.274, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"珊\", \"start\": 930.274, \"end\": 930.435, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 930.435, \"end\": 930.616, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 930.616, \"end\": 931.157, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 931.157, \"end\": 931.378, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 931.378, \"end\": 932.141, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 932.141, \"end\": 932.502, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 932.502, \"end\": 932.702, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 932.702, \"end\": 932.723, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,089 --> 00:00:00,109\n黃國雲好\n\n2\n00:00:23,427 --> 00:00:44,094\n院長早我想今天打詐專報其實國人都非常的關心尤其是我認為詐騙正在傷害台灣您同意嗎這是一個全球性的犯罪行為台灣在這個工作上面我們還要持續的還要更加油院長上任之後有所謂的打詐惡典禮的政策從試詐賭詐阻詐懲詐\n\n3\n00:00:49,161 --> 00:01:07,028\n那您剛剛說了很多數字我想剛剛大家也都看到了數字現在的問題在於成詐一年前院長記得嗎我們在這裡在立法院通過了打詐專法這個專法通過了整整一年這一年來您覺得成效怎麼樣\n\n4\n00:01:08,527 --> 00:01:29,569\n我們在市詐跟防詐阻詐方面前面做很多懲詐呢但是懲詐可能還需要在刑事訴訟法懲詐的部分院長知道刑事法庭跟我們法務部還有我們立法院甚至跟行政院的立場完全不一樣我們通過的專法被司法院打臉院長知道嗎\n\n5\n00:01:31,525 --> 00:01:44,044\n我覺得針點在於如何把犯罪的金額能夠把它取回以及被害人如何加強我們去年7月通過了打詐專法經過一年到今年的1月份\n\n6\n00:01:45,606 --> 00:02:08,648\n最高法院開一個所謂的刑事大法去解釋我們當時為什麼立這個法立這個法的目的是什麼所以我們的立法意旨講得很清楚要如果你自白或自首繳回你的犯罪所得的話你可以減刑但是法院用所謂的繳回犯罪所得是他得到的酬勞所以一個車手繳回三千塊五千塊他就減刑了\n\n7\n00:02:09,068 --> 00:02:24,990\n今天這個法條已經被最高法院大法庭解釋成就是這樣了所以打臉行政院打臉法務部打臉立法院法務部長去年今年五月我問你你說你會修法有\n\n8\n00:02:25,660 --> 00:02:49,723\n法案立法院委員都已經提了案了法務部的草案有不敢拿出來院長你知道為什麼這個跟委員報告不敢拿出來為什麼這個法案現在在那個因為還在行政院審查所以院長在你桌上了沒因為還要再請司法院來一起來做一個討論我要問院長院長你看到了沒他要修法你知道嗎\n\n9\n00:02:50,680 --> 00:03:02,818\n布裡面送出來草案通常程序上還有經過政委他一個月之後就修了我們6月21號對政委會已經排了他也拿出他的草案了但到今天8月15號沒有任何影子\n\n10\n00:03:03,703 --> 00:03:24,726\n院長這叫做打架打一半啦對修法的方向是應該是明確而且可以進行是什麼時候要送來這個立法一直這麼清楚這個司法院完全不聯絡院長我再告訴你更可笑的當天6月21號內政部排審法案的時候法務部把他的草案拿出來司法院的代表告訴我們他第一次看到\n\n11\n00:03:26,561 --> 00:03:50,263\n你們事先不聯絡了嗎你們在立這個法之前沒有告訴司法院你們的態度嗎這部分是在行政院的委員會討論這是在行政院審查中一定會請司法院來表示意見院長我現在說的是一個行政院一個法務部如果我們的法案不跟司法院討論你再送過來就白搭所以現在行政院審查中有請司法院來表示意見嗎你做的事情你都做了我知道可是我們司法院不理你啦\n\n12\n00:03:52,158 --> 00:04:17,259\n國務院長你要不要去協調一下司法院跟行政院是不是不聯絡這件事情呢我們這個有修法我們是修法的方向我們要參考德國的立法例來做一個處理我要問院長報告委員我們包括這個保護被害人我要說的是行政院跟司法院要不要聯絡要不要溝通再來修立法院再幫你通過然後司法院照樣不判\n\n13\n00:04:18,407 --> 00:04:37,515\n我都還沒講完保護被害人以及陳少共犯幾個案子當中你要不要跟司法院溝通我說我們這個都會積極跟司法院在判當中會積極跟司法院溝通就不會發生這種事我給你個時間現在是8月5號下個會期開議前你可以把法案審過來嗎審查完之後我們就會送到司法院要什麼時候送到立法院來\n\n14\n00:04:44,890 --> 00:04:58,898\n審查他必須打詐要打真的啦今天這個專報完了之後你法院還是這樣子辦你撐什麼詐下個會期送過來可以嗎當然是要打真的你我都可能受害我們旁邊的記者都可能受害下個會期可以送來吧\n\n15\n00:04:59,656 --> 00:05:13,180\n我們現在已經在九月份可以送來吧九月份下個會期我覺得應該是一定可以送來院長這很重要你的懲詐就在這裡面我現在給你看的影片喔時間暫定我要放影片前一頁我現在要給院長看影片喔謝謝二十六個備案\n\n16\n00:05:30,435 --> 00:05:36,883\n他是一個車手他交保了他出來教人家怎麼詐騙他在假釋\n\n17\n00:05:45,323 --> 00:05:52,070\n他說拿著他的判決書去在騙集團又會百分之百被錄取真的假的你看你這個判決書這麼多\n\n18\n00:06:20,188 --> 00:06:39,462\n好請切掉院長這是詐騙犯詐騙犯這麼囂張出來之後在假釋期間還可以拍這種影片然後告訴大家說他的判決書就是他的履歷表這在台灣看到這個人也很年輕現在台灣的年輕人可能認為詐騙集團很光榮啊\n\n19\n00:06:41,781 --> 00:06:57,006\n現在才是這個問題我想這個是很可惡的一個行為很可怕很可惡這個假釋犯你查出來好不好這個沒要求具體這個個案查出來有沒有這樣的事情這個個案查出來這個在假釋的人請部長把這個個案要找出來這樣的行為如果還放在社會上讓他犯罪不應該這個先處理吧我們未來針對被害人的保護以及\n\n20\n00:07:11,972 --> 00:07:34,052\n具體的酋刑乃至於考慮到未來這些人的禁舍令我們都是在修法的概念當中趕快進來吧我們趕快幫你修法不要再等了吧一年了成效如果只有這樣的話還有這麼一個影片的話我是覺得成效真的很不好下一個接下來是這是第一個今天大家都在談數字大家就看一下\n\n21\n00:07:35,773 --> 00:07:58,264\n這個數字剛剛部長一直說這是統計方法的問題我同意統計方法有問題不過這叫做之前都在當遮羞布遮羞布掀開之後所有的金額出來就不一樣這個原來統計數字是以警方做初步調查之後才裁的一個數字現在是一個報案的一個數字我同意本來就應該這樣\n\n22\n00:08:01,745 --> 00:08:22,924\n之前就是在那邊遮羞吃案所以這個不能講說遮羞吃案這個反正就是我的意思是說之前就是故意不報現在就是按照被害人說的算不是這樣的接下來院長你看到這個數字還是觸目驚心第一個你們的數字我不知道我這個是我們從打債儀表板8月份的統計數字2024年到502億12.2萬件現在2025年1到7月就566億\n\n23\n00:08:28,849 --> 00:08:47,610\n你剛剛說的下降我同意可能他逐步在下降但是統計起來還是很可怕而且我跟委員報告因為整個一個詐團的一個詐欺的形態的一個改變以前是電話詐欺所以那個金額比較現在的件數其實是有在下降的件數小這也是一個投資的一個詐欺所以他那個數額會比較高\n\n24\n00:08:49,911 --> 00:09:16,101\n所以不要再自有感覺良好它是在增加所以我現在在跟院長說我們要有數字概念沒有錯我同意大家努力的用距離8月的數字這裡是新年7月下降的幅度當然緩慢但趨勢是有的我們會再努力你如果做這麼多事還沒有下降真的是\n\n25\n00:09:17,401 --> 00:09:18,182\n請尊重一下執勳的委員好嗎\n\n26\n00:09:31,135 --> 00:09:52,137\n所以这个数字我希望看到的是它逐步的下降不管任何统计方式都不应该有这么大的偏差最严重的是诈骗里面投资诈骗占了多数投资诈骗我看到你们报告是说占了所有诈骗里面23%财产占了64%也就是说金额很高件数不见得最多\n\n27\n00:09:53,078 --> 00:10:15,283\n但是投資詐騙裡面很多都是所謂的六個月才發現九成五三十天之內一半數所以意思就是說養套殺的狀況很嚴重養套殺是因為他對金融不了解或者是他對現在的金融商品不清楚很容易受到所謂的社群很容易受到所謂的廣告他就受到的影響\n\n28\n00:10:16,363 --> 00:10:31,393\n所以這個剛剛講了很多的社區軟體要管理第二個我們現在有一大的最大的問題是虛擬資產虛擬資產是金管會的管轄虛擬資產在113年度審計部的總決算的審核報告針對所謂的虛擬資產的管理其實院長虛擬資產你知道現在的進度到哪裡了嗎\n\n29\n00:10:45,417 --> 00:11:03,602\n我們要用工會來管理所以虛擬資產它有一個專法也一樣送進去行政院了請問什麼時候要送來立法院是我們6月27號送進院院裡面由政務委員已經開始在審查已經開過會議院長你可以去催啊快一點啊\n\n30\n00:11:04,842 --> 00:11:29,720\n為什麼大家都不知道在台灣買哪些業者是合法的搞不清楚狀況每天都被人家騙可以趕快讓專法進來讓所有願意在台灣落地合法的業者能夠盡快的讓他們納入管理讓所有的民眾知道我要去哪裡買虛擬資產不是現在到處被人家亂騙一通啊\n\n31\n00:11:32,369 --> 00:11:57,676\n金管會六月就進來了所以院長下個會期送來吧快吧快馬加鞭案子都在我就在等院長講了在你桌上你就趕快和啊只要趕快送到你桌上你來吹啊現在已經在那個審查中了他們都送了啦就是你們行政院我不知道啦動作慢半拍還是怎樣打詐是所有你的施政裡面我認為最急要的\n\n32\n00:11:58,510 --> 00:12:14,975\n而且都有法案只是還沒有送到院長桌上接下來是剛剛講的打詐成效神器部院長你覺得我們接下來還可以改善什麼打詐的成效神器部其實有講過你覺得現在還可以改善的是哪些\n\n33\n00:12:16,212 --> 00:12:29,669\n我覺得還是要從剛剛委員有提到懲詐後端就被害人的保護這方面應該再加強是第二個我剛才說審計部他其實說過了他說其實最嚴重的是我們165人力不穩定\n\n34\n00:12:30,134 --> 00:12:47,166\n第二個沒有建立打炸成效的量化指標現在好像建立了第三個是165的量能不足去每年仍然有將近5萬通電話就被漏接了所以院長165可能是一個需要改進的地方\n\n35\n00:12:47,745 --> 00:13:16,851\n那我會跟內政部跟165專線來檢討是人力不足漏接電話造成了後端沒有辦法懲詐我們用AI的方式來盡量能不能技術的導入這個可能要快再接下來一個是院長剛剛也看到大家都說了我們發生台中豐原的五口的命案不管他們的原因是什麼他最嚴重的是他們求助我們走投無路家破人亡\n\n36\n00:13:18,158 --> 00:13:47,635\n這是台灣人最深切的悲哀為什麼他們沒有辦法得到幫助找不到人協助甚至好走上絕路我想這個是一個很嚴重的另外一個就是他們碰到了更嚴重的是剛剛講你剛講地震拿房子去抵押炸團還幫他介紹金主去貸款在借永無止盡的借今天另外一個問題叫做融資公司\n\n37\n00:13:48,700 --> 00:14:05,526\n融資公司已經成為詐騙集團的共犯甚至有一些當鋪有一些相關的人他都變成跟詐騙集團說你們來借他錢繼續被我騙然後因為你是善良的第三人你借他錢你沒事啊\n\n38\n00:14:06,641 --> 00:14:32,262\n所以現在的融資公司一樣經管會我們在立法院也提了融資公司專法然後監察院在114年的4月就告訴大家監察院認為說現在公股銀行融資給這些所謂的民營的註定公司是有問題的第二個是接下去是行政院應該要有專法院長這件事情你知道嗎\n\n39\n00:14:33,100 --> 00:15:02,940\n是我們也在往這個方向在做經管會一直努力也時常跟我做說明現在經管會只管大不管小啦當然主委很幫忙已經納入經保法我們是逐步納管啦接下來主委我還是要講院長這件事情可能也是跟打詐有關如果融資公司我要先講馬來西亞在7月份通過了他們的轉法馬來西亞針對非銀行的借貸業者全部納入管理而且有監管條例\n\n40\n00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:24,949\n這是臺灣可以學習可以接近的可以嗎要納入你的打詐的長期的目標我們不僅跨境打擊合作我們也希望吸取更多的國際好的經驗最後我覺得政府的資訊公開是人民比較不會受到詐騙的重要的關鍵包括一萬塊包括這些資訊都要完整的揭露好嗎\n\n41\n00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:32,723\n好謝謝謝謝黃珊珊委員之間謝謝卓院長相關部會所長備詢謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n89\t109\t黃國雲好\n23427\t44094\t院長早我想今天打詐專報其實國人都非常的關心尤其是我認為詐騙正在傷害台灣您同意嗎這是一個全球性的犯罪行為台灣在這個工作上面我們還要持續的還要更加油院長上任之後有所謂的打詐惡典禮的政策從試詐賭詐阻詐懲詐\n49161\t67028\t那您剛剛說了很多數字我想剛剛大家也都看到了數字現在的問題在於成詐一年前院長記得嗎我們在這裡在立法院通過了打詐專法這個專法通過了整整一年這一年來您覺得成效怎麼樣\n68527\t89569\t我們在市詐跟防詐阻詐方面前面做很多懲詐呢但是懲詐可能還需要在刑事訴訟法懲詐的部分院長知道刑事法庭跟我們法務部還有我們立法院甚至跟行政院的立場完全不一樣我們通過的專法被司法院打臉院長知道嗎\n91525\t104044\t我覺得針點在於如何把犯罪的金額能夠把它取回以及被害人如何加強我們去年7月通過了打詐專法經過一年到今年的1月份\n105606\t128648\t最高法院開一個所謂的刑事大法去解釋我們當時為什麼立這個法立這個法的目的是什麼所以我們的立法意旨講得很清楚要如果你自白或自首繳回你的犯罪所得的話你可以減刑但是法院用所謂的繳回犯罪所得是他得到的酬勞所以一個車手繳回三千塊五千塊他就減刑了\n129068\t144990\t今天這個法條已經被最高法院大法庭解釋成就是這樣了所以打臉行政院打臉法務部打臉立法院法務部長去年今年五月我問你你說你會修法有\n145660\t169723\t法案立法院委員都已經提了案了法務部的草案有不敢拿出來院長你知道為什麼這個跟委員報告不敢拿出來為什麼這個法案現在在那個因為還在行政院審查所以院長在你桌上了沒因為還要再請司法院來一起來做一個討論我要問院長院長你看到了沒他要修法你知道嗎\n170680\t182818\t布裡面送出來草案通常程序上還有經過政委他一個月之後就修了我們6月21號對政委會已經排了他也拿出他的草案了但到今天8月15號沒有任何影子\n183703\t204726\t院長這叫做打架打一半啦對修法的方向是應該是明確而且可以進行是什麼時候要送來這個立法一直這麼清楚這個司法院完全不聯絡院長我再告訴你更可笑的當天6月21號內政部排審法案的時候法務部把他的草案拿出來司法院的代表告訴我們他第一次看到\n206561\t230263\t你們事先不聯絡了嗎你們在立這個法之前沒有告訴司法院你們的態度嗎這部分是在行政院的委員會討論這是在行政院審查中一定會請司法院來表示意見院長我現在說的是一個行政院一個法務部如果我們的法案不跟司法院討論你再送過來就白搭所以現在行政院審查中有請司法院來表示意見嗎你做的事情你都做了我知道可是我們司法院不理你啦\n232158\t257259\t國務院長 你要不要去協調一下司法院跟行政院是不是不聯絡這件事情呢我們這個有修法 我們是修法的方向我們要參考德國的立法例來做一個處理我要問院長報告委員 我們包括這個保護被害人我要說的是 行政院跟司法院要不要聯絡要不要溝通再來修 立法院再幫你通過 然後司法院照樣不判\n258407\t277515\t我都還沒講完保護被害人以及陳少共犯幾個案子當中你要不要跟司法院溝通我說我們這個都會積極跟司法院在判當中會積極跟司法院溝通就不會發生這種事我給你個時間現在是8月5號下個會期開議前你可以把法案審過來嗎審查完之後我們就會送到司法院要什麼時候送到立法院來\n284890\t298898\t審查他必須 打詐要打真的啦 今天這個專報完了之後你法院還是這樣子辦 你撐什麼詐下個會期送過來可以嗎 當然是要打真的 你我都可能受害我們旁邊的記者都可能受害 下個會期可以送來吧\n299656\t313180\t我們現在已經在 九月份可以送來吧九月份 下個會期我覺得應該是 一定可以送來院長這很重要你的懲詐就在這裡面我現在給你看的影片喔時間暫定我要放影片 前一頁我現在要給院長看影片喔 謝謝二十六個備案\n330435\t336883\t他是一個車手他交保了他出來教人家怎麼詐騙他在假釋\n345323\t352070\t他說拿著他的判決書去在騙集團又會百分之百被錄取真的假的你看你這個判決書這麼多\n380188\t399462\t好 請切掉院長 這是詐騙犯詐騙犯這麼囂張出來之後在假釋期間還可以拍這種影片然後告訴大家說他的判決書就是他的履歷表這在台灣 看到這個人也很年輕現在台灣的年輕人可能認為詐騙集團很光榮啊\n401781\t417006\t現在才是這個問題我想這個是很可惡的一個行為很可怕很可惡這個假釋犯你查出來好不好這個沒要求具體這個個案查出來有沒有這樣的事情這個個案查出來這個在假釋的人請部長把這個個案要找出來這樣的行為如果還放在社會上讓他犯罪不應該這個先處理吧我們未來針對被害人的保護以及\n431972\t454052\t具體的酋刑乃至於考慮到未來這些人的禁舍令我們都是在修法的概念當中趕快進來吧我們趕快幫你修法不要再等了吧一年了成效如果只有這樣的話還有這麼一個影片的話我是覺得成效真的很不好下一個接下來是這是第一個今天大家都在談數字大家就看一下\n455773\t478264\t這個數字剛剛部長一直說這是統計方法的問題我同意統計方法有問題不過這叫做之前都在當遮羞布遮羞布掀開之後所有的金額出來就不一樣這個原來統計數字是以警方做初步調查之後才裁的一個數字現在是一個報案的一個數字我同意本來就應該這樣\n481745\t502924\t之前就是在那邊遮羞吃案所以這個不能講說遮羞吃案這個反正就是我的意思是說之前就是故意不報現在就是按照被害人說的算不是這樣的接下來院長你看到這個數字還是觸目驚心第一個你們的數字我不知道我這個是我們從打債儀表板8月份的統計數字2024年到502億12.2萬件現在2025年1到7月就566億\n508849\t527610\t你剛剛說的下降我同意可能他逐步在下降但是統計起來還是很可怕而且我跟委員報告因為整個一個詐團的一個詐欺的形態的一個改變以前是電話詐欺所以那個金額比較現在的件數其實是有在下降的件數小這也是一個投資的一個詐欺所以他那個數額會比較高\n529911\t556101\t所以不要再自有感覺良好它是在增加所以我現在在跟院長說我們要有數字概念沒有錯我同意大家努力的用距離8月的數字這裡是新年7月下降的幅度當然緩慢但趨勢是有的我們會再努力你如果做這麼多事還沒有下降真的是\n557401\t558182\t請尊重一下執勳的委員好嗎\n571135\t592137\t所以这个数字我希望看到的是它逐步的下降不管任何统计方式都不应该有这么大的偏差最严重的是诈骗里面投资诈骗占了多数投资诈骗我看到你们报告是说占了所有诈骗里面23%财产占了64%也就是说金额很高件数不见得最多\n593078\t615283\t但是投資詐騙裡面很多都是所謂的六個月才發現九成五三十天之內一半數所以意思就是說養套殺的狀況很嚴重養套殺是因為他對金融不了解或者是他對現在的金融商品不清楚很容易受到所謂的社群很容易受到所謂的廣告他就受到的影響\n616363\t631393\t所以這個剛剛講了很多的社區軟體要管理第二個我們現在有一大的最大的問題是虛擬資產虛擬資產是金管會的管轄虛擬資產在113年度審計部的總決算的審核報告針對所謂的虛擬資產的管理其實院長虛擬資產你知道現在的進度到哪裡了嗎\n645417\t663602\t我們要用工會來管理所以虛擬資產它有一個專法也一樣送進去行政院了請問什麼時候要送來立法院是我們6月27號送進院院裡面由政務委員已經開始在審查已經開過會議院長你可以去催啊 快一點啊\n664842\t689720\t為什麼大家都不知道在台灣買哪些業者是合法的搞不清楚狀況每天都被人家騙可以趕快讓專法進來讓所有願意在台灣落地合法的業者能夠盡快的讓他們納入管理讓所有的民眾知道我要去哪裡買虛擬資產不是現在到處被人家亂騙一通啊\n692369\t717676\t金管會六月就進來了所以院長下個會期送來吧快吧快馬加鞭案子都在我就在等院長講了在你桌上你就趕快和啊只要趕快送到你桌上你來吹啊現在已經在那個審查中了他們都送了啦就是你們行政院我不知道啦動作慢半拍還是怎樣打詐是所有你的施政裡面我認為最急要的\n718510\t734975\t而且都有法案只是還沒有送到院長桌上接下來是剛剛講的打詐成效神器部院長你覺得我們接下來還可以改善什麼打詐的成效神器部其實有講過你覺得現在還可以改善的是哪些\n736212\t749669\t我覺得還是要從剛剛委員有提到懲詐後端就被害人的保護這方面應該再加強是第二個我剛才說審計部他其實說過了他說其實最嚴重的是我們165人力不穩定\n750134\t767166\t第二個沒有建立打炸成效的量化指標現在好像建立了第三個是165的量能不足去每年仍然有將近5萬通電話就被漏接了所以院長165可能是一個需要改進的地方\n767745\t796851\t那我會跟內政部跟165專線來檢討是 人力不足漏接電話造成了後端沒有辦法懲詐我們用AI的方式來盡量能不能技術的導入這個可能要快再接下來一個是院長剛剛也看到大家都說了我們發生台中豐原的五口的命案不管他們的原因是什麼他最嚴重的是他們求助我們走投無路 家破人亡\n798158\t827635\t這是台灣人最深切的悲哀為什麼他們沒有辦法得到幫助找不到人協助甚至好走上絕路我想這個是一個很嚴重的另外一個就是他們碰到了更嚴重的是剛剛講你剛講地震拿房子去抵押炸團還幫他介紹金主去貸款在借永無止盡的借今天另外一個問題叫做融資公司\n828700\t845526\t融資公司已經成為詐騙集團的共犯甚至有一些當鋪有一些相關的人他都變成跟詐騙集團說你們來借他錢繼續被我騙然後因為你是善良的第三人你借他錢你沒事啊\n846641\t872262\t所以現在的融資公司一樣經管會我們在立法院也提了融資公司專法然後監察院在114年的4月就告訴大家監察院認為說現在公股銀行融資給這些所謂的民營的註定公司是有問題的第二個是 接下去是行政院應該要有專法院長 這件事情你知道嗎\n873100\t902940\t是 我們也在往這個方向在做經管會一直努力 也時常跟我做說明現在經管會只管大不管小啦當然 主委很幫忙已經納入經保法我們是逐步納管啦接下來主委我還是要講院長這件事情可能也是跟打詐有關如果融資公司我要先講馬來西亞在7月份通過了他們的轉法馬來西亞針對非銀行的借貸業者全部納入管理而且有監管條例\n903760\t924949\t這是臺灣可以學習可以接近的可以嗎要納入你的打詐的長期的目標我們不僅跨境打擊合作我們也希望吸取更多的國際好的經驗最後我覺得政府的資訊公開是人民比較不會受到詐騙的重要的關鍵包括一萬塊包括這些資訊都要完整的揭露好嗎\n928629\t932723\t好 謝謝 謝謝黃珊珊委員之間謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝\n","txt":"黃國雲好\n院長早我想今天打詐專報其實國人都非常的關心尤其是我認為詐騙正在傷害台灣您同意嗎這是一個全球性的犯罪行為台灣在這個工作上面我們還要持續的還要更加油院長上任之後有所謂的打詐惡典禮的政策從試詐賭詐阻詐懲詐\n那您剛剛說了很多數字我想剛剛大家也都看到了數字現在的問題在於成詐一年前院長記得嗎我們在這裡在立法院通過了打詐專法這個專法通過了整整一年這一年來您覺得成效怎麼樣\n我們在市詐跟防詐阻詐方面前面做很多懲詐呢但是懲詐可能還需要在刑事訴訟法懲詐的部分院長知道刑事法庭跟我們法務部還有我們立法院甚至跟行政院的立場完全不一樣我們通過的專法被司法院打臉院長知道嗎\n我覺得針點在於如何把犯罪的金額能夠把它取回以及被害人如何加強我們去年7月通過了打詐專法經過一年到今年的1月份\n最高法院開一個所謂的刑事大法去解釋我們當時為什麼立這個法立這個法的目的是什麼所以我們的立法意旨講得很清楚要如果你自白或自首繳回你的犯罪所得的話你可以減刑但是法院用所謂的繳回犯罪所得是他得到的酬勞所以一個車手繳回三千塊五千塊他就減刑了\n今天這個法條已經被最高法院大法庭解釋成就是這樣了所以打臉行政院打臉法務部打臉立法院法務部長去年今年五月我問你你說你會修法有\n法案立法院委員都已經提了案了法務部的草案有不敢拿出來院長你知道為什麼這個跟委員報告不敢拿出來為什麼這個法案現在在那個因為還在行政院審查所以院長在你桌上了沒因為還要再請司法院來一起來做一個討論我要問院長院長你看到了沒他要修法你知道嗎\n布裡面送出來草案通常程序上還有經過政委他一個月之後就修了我們6月21號對政委會已經排了他也拿出他的草案了但到今天8月15號沒有任何影子\n院長這叫做打架打一半啦對修法的方向是應該是明確而且可以進行是什麼時候要送來這個立法一直這麼清楚這個司法院完全不聯絡院長我再告訴你更可笑的當天6月21號內政部排審法案的時候法務部把他的草案拿出來司法院的代表告訴我們他第一次看到\n你們事先不聯絡了嗎你們在立這個法之前沒有告訴司法院你們的態度嗎這部分是在行政院的委員會討論這是在行政院審查中一定會請司法院來表示意見院長我現在說的是一個行政院一個法務部如果我們的法案不跟司法院討論你再送過來就白搭所以現在行政院審查中有請司法院來表示意見嗎你做的事情你都做了我知道可是我們司法院不理你啦\n國務院長 你要不要去協調一下司法院跟行政院是不是不聯絡這件事情呢我們這個有修法 我們是修法的方向我們要參考德國的立法例來做一個處理我要問院長報告委員 我們包括這個保護被害人我要說的是 行政院跟司法院要不要聯絡要不要溝通再來修 立法院再幫你通過 然後司法院照樣不判\n我都還沒講完保護被害人以及陳少共犯幾個案子當中你要不要跟司法院溝通我說我們這個都會積極跟司法院在判當中會積極跟司法院溝通就不會發生這種事我給你個時間現在是8月5號下個會期開議前你可以把法案審過來嗎審查完之後我們就會送到司法院要什麼時候送到立法院來\n審查他必須 打詐要打真的啦 今天這個專報完了之後你法院還是這樣子辦 你撐什麼詐下個會期送過來可以嗎 當然是要打真的 你我都可能受害我們旁邊的記者都可能受害 下個會期可以送來吧\n我們現在已經在 九月份可以送來吧九月份 下個會期我覺得應該是 一定可以送來院長這很重要你的懲詐就在這裡面我現在給你看的影片喔時間暫定我要放影片 前一頁我現在要給院長看影片喔 謝謝二十六個備案\n他是一個車手他交保了他出來教人家怎麼詐騙他在假釋\n他說拿著他的判決書去在騙集團又會百分之百被錄取真的假的你看你這個判決書這麼多\n好 請切掉院長 這是詐騙犯詐騙犯這麼囂張出來之後在假釋期間還可以拍這種影片然後告訴大家說他的判決書就是他的履歷表這在台灣 看到這個人也很年輕現在台灣的年輕人可能認為詐騙集團很光榮啊\n現在才是這個問題我想這個是很可惡的一個行為很可怕很可惡這個假釋犯你查出來好不好這個沒要求具體這個個案查出來有沒有這樣的事情這個個案查出來這個在假釋的人請部長把這個個案要找出來這樣的行為如果還放在社會上讓他犯罪不應該這個先處理吧我們未來針對被害人的保護以及\n具體的酋刑乃至於考慮到未來這些人的禁舍令我們都是在修法的概念當中趕快進來吧我們趕快幫你修法不要再等了吧一年了成效如果只有這樣的話還有這麼一個影片的話我是覺得成效真的很不好下一個接下來是這是第一個今天大家都在談數字大家就看一下\n這個數字剛剛部長一直說這是統計方法的問題我同意統計方法有問題不過這叫做之前都在當遮羞布遮羞布掀開之後所有的金額出來就不一樣這個原來統計數字是以警方做初步調查之後才裁的一個數字現在是一個報案的一個數字我同意本來就應該這樣\n之前就是在那邊遮羞吃案所以這個不能講說遮羞吃案這個反正就是我的意思是說之前就是故意不報現在就是按照被害人說的算不是這樣的接下來院長你看到這個數字還是觸目驚心第一個你們的數字我不知道我這個是我們從打債儀表板8月份的統計數字2024年到502億12.2萬件現在2025年1到7月就566億\n你剛剛說的下降我同意可能他逐步在下降但是統計起來還是很可怕而且我跟委員報告因為整個一個詐團的一個詐欺的形態的一個改變以前是電話詐欺所以那個金額比較現在的件數其實是有在下降的件數小這也是一個投資的一個詐欺所以他那個數額會比較高\n所以不要再自有感覺良好它是在增加所以我現在在跟院長說我們要有數字概念沒有錯我同意大家努力的用距離8月的數字這裡是新年7月下降的幅度當然緩慢但趨勢是有的我們會再努力你如果做這麼多事還沒有下降真的是\n請尊重一下執勳的委員好嗎\n所以这个数字我希望看到的是它逐步的下降不管任何统计方式都不应该有这么大的偏差最严重的是诈骗里面投资诈骗占了多数投资诈骗我看到你们报告是说占了所有诈骗里面23%财产占了64%也就是说金额很高件数不见得最多\n但是投資詐騙裡面很多都是所謂的六個月才發現九成五三十天之內一半數所以意思就是說養套殺的狀況很嚴重養套殺是因為他對金融不了解或者是他對現在的金融商品不清楚很容易受到所謂的社群很容易受到所謂的廣告他就受到的影響\n所以這個剛剛講了很多的社區軟體要管理第二個我們現在有一大的最大的問題是虛擬資產虛擬資產是金管會的管轄虛擬資產在113年度審計部的總決算的審核報告針對所謂的虛擬資產的管理其實院長虛擬資產你知道現在的進度到哪裡了嗎\n我們要用工會來管理所以虛擬資產它有一個專法也一樣送進去行政院了請問什麼時候要送來立法院是我們6月27號送進院院裡面由政務委員已經開始在審查已經開過會議院長你可以去催啊 快一點啊\n為什麼大家都不知道在台灣買哪些業者是合法的搞不清楚狀況每天都被人家騙可以趕快讓專法進來讓所有願意在台灣落地合法的業者能夠盡快的讓他們納入管理讓所有的民眾知道我要去哪裡買虛擬資產不是現在到處被人家亂騙一通啊\n金管會六月就進來了所以院長下個會期送來吧快吧快馬加鞭案子都在我就在等院長講了在你桌上你就趕快和啊只要趕快送到你桌上你來吹啊現在已經在那個審查中了他們都送了啦就是你們行政院我不知道啦動作慢半拍還是怎樣打詐是所有你的施政裡面我認為最急要的\n而且都有法案只是還沒有送到院長桌上接下來是剛剛講的打詐成效神器部院長你覺得我們接下來還可以改善什麼打詐的成效神器部其實有講過你覺得現在還可以改善的是哪些\n我覺得還是要從剛剛委員有提到懲詐後端就被害人的保護這方面應該再加強是第二個我剛才說審計部他其實說過了他說其實最嚴重的是我們165人力不穩定\n第二個沒有建立打炸成效的量化指標現在好像建立了第三個是165的量能不足去每年仍然有將近5萬通電話就被漏接了所以院長165可能是一個需要改進的地方\n那我會跟內政部跟165專線來檢討是 人力不足漏接電話造成了後端沒有辦法懲詐我們用AI的方式來盡量能不能技術的導入這個可能要快再接下來一個是院長剛剛也看到大家都說了我們發生台中豐原的五口的命案不管他們的原因是什麼他最嚴重的是他們求助我們走投無路 家破人亡\n這是台灣人最深切的悲哀為什麼他們沒有辦法得到幫助找不到人協助甚至好走上絕路我想這個是一個很嚴重的另外一個就是他們碰到了更嚴重的是剛剛講你剛講地震拿房子去抵押炸團還幫他介紹金主去貸款在借永無止盡的借今天另外一個問題叫做融資公司\n融資公司已經成為詐騙集團的共犯甚至有一些當鋪有一些相關的人他都變成跟詐騙集團說你們來借他錢繼續被我騙然後因為你是善良的第三人你借他錢你沒事啊\n所以現在的融資公司一樣經管會我們在立法院也提了融資公司專法然後監察院在114年的4月就告訴大家監察院認為說現在公股銀行融資給這些所謂的民營的註定公司是有問題的第二個是 接下去是行政院應該要有專法院長 這件事情你知道嗎\n是 我們也在往這個方向在做經管會一直努力 也時常跟我做說明現在經管會只管大不管小啦當然 主委很幫忙已經納入經保法我們是逐步納管啦接下來主委我還是要講院長這件事情可能也是跟打詐有關如果融資公司我要先講馬來西亞在7月份通過了他們的轉法馬來西亞針對非銀行的借貸業者全部納入管理而且有監管條例\n這是臺灣可以學習可以接近的可以嗎要納入你的打詐的長期的目標我們不僅跨境打擊合作我們也希望吸取更多的國際好的經驗最後我覺得政府的資訊公開是人民比較不會受到詐騙的重要的關鍵包括一萬塊包括這些資訊都要完整的揭露好嗎\n好 謝謝 謝謝黃珊珊委員之間謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.089 --> 00:00.109\n黃國雲好\n\n00:23.427 --> 00:44.094\n院長早我想今天打詐專報其實國人都非常的關心尤其是我認為詐騙正在傷害台灣您同意嗎這是一個全球性的犯罪行為台灣在這個工作上面我們還要持續的還要更加油院長上任之後有所謂的打詐惡典禮的政策從試詐賭詐阻詐懲詐\n\n00:49.161 --> 01:07.028\n那您剛剛說了很多數字我想剛剛大家也都看到了數字現在的問題在於成詐一年前院長記得嗎我們在這裡在立法院通過了打詐專法這個專法通過了整整一年這一年來您覺得成效怎麼樣\n\n01:08.527 --> 01:29.569\n我們在市詐跟防詐阻詐方面前面做很多懲詐呢但是懲詐可能還需要在刑事訴訟法懲詐的部分院長知道刑事法庭跟我們法務部還有我們立法院甚至跟行政院的立場完全不一樣我們通過的專法被司法院打臉院長知道嗎\n\n01:31.525 --> 01:44.044\n我覺得針點在於如何把犯罪的金額能夠把它取回以及被害人如何加強我們去年7月通過了打詐專法經過一年到今年的1月份\n\n01:45.606 --> 02:08.648\n最高法院開一個所謂的刑事大法去解釋我們當時為什麼立這個法立這個法的目的是什麼所以我們的立法意旨講得很清楚要如果你自白或自首繳回你的犯罪所得的話你可以減刑但是法院用所謂的繳回犯罪所得是他得到的酬勞所以一個車手繳回三千塊五千塊他就減刑了\n\n02:09.068 --> 02:24.990\n今天這個法條已經被最高法院大法庭解釋成就是這樣了所以打臉行政院打臉法務部打臉立法院法務部長去年今年五月我問你你說你會修法有\n\n02:25.660 --> 02:49.723\n法案立法院委員都已經提了案了法務部的草案有不敢拿出來院長你知道為什麼這個跟委員報告不敢拿出來為什麼這個法案現在在那個因為還在行政院審查所以院長在你桌上了沒因為還要再請司法院來一起來做一個討論我要問院長院長你看到了沒他要修法你知道嗎\n\n02:50.680 --> 03:02.818\n布裡面送出來草案通常程序上還有經過政委他一個月之後就修了我們6月21號對政委會已經排了他也拿出他的草案了但到今天8月15號沒有任何影子\n\n03:03.703 --> 03:24.726\n院長這叫做打架打一半啦對修法的方向是應該是明確而且可以進行是什麼時候要送來這個立法一直這麼清楚這個司法院完全不聯絡院長我再告訴你更可笑的當天6月21號內政部排審法案的時候法務部把他的草案拿出來司法院的代表告訴我們他第一次看到\n\n03:26.561 --> 03:50.263\n你們事先不聯絡了嗎你們在立這個法之前沒有告訴司法院你們的態度嗎這部分是在行政院的委員會討論這是在行政院審查中一定會請司法院來表示意見院長我現在說的是一個行政院一個法務部如果我們的法案不跟司法院討論你再送過來就白搭所以現在行政院審查中有請司法院來表示意見嗎你做的事情你都做了我知道可是我們司法院不理你啦\n\n03:52.158 --> 04:17.259\n國務院長你要不要去協調一下司法院跟行政院是不是不聯絡這件事情呢我們這個有修法我們是修法的方向我們要參考德國的立法例來做一個處理我要問院長報告委員我們包括這個保護被害人我要說的是行政院跟司法院要不要聯絡要不要溝通再來修立法院再幫你通過然後司法院照樣不判\n\n04:18.407 --> 04:37.515\n我都還沒講完保護被害人以及陳少共犯幾個案子當中你要不要跟司法院溝通我說我們這個都會積極跟司法院在判當中會積極跟司法院溝通就不會發生這種事我給你個時間現在是8月5號下個會期開議前你可以把法案審過來嗎審查完之後我們就會送到司法院要什麼時候送到立法院來\n\n04:44.890 --> 04:58.898\n審查他必須打詐要打真的啦今天這個專報完了之後你法院還是這樣子辦你撐什麼詐下個會期送過來可以嗎當然是要打真的你我都可能受害我們旁邊的記者都可能受害下個會期可以送來吧\n\n04:59.656 --> 05:13.180\n我們現在已經在九月份可以送來吧九月份下個會期我覺得應該是一定可以送來院長這很重要你的懲詐就在這裡面我現在給你看的影片喔時間暫定我要放影片前一頁我現在要給院長看影片喔謝謝二十六個備案\n\n05:30.435 --> 05:36.883\n他是一個車手他交保了他出來教人家怎麼詐騙他在假釋\n\n05:45.323 --> 05:52.070\n他說拿著他的判決書去在騙集團又會百分之百被錄取真的假的你看你這個判決書這麼多\n\n06:20.188 --> 06:39.462\n好請切掉院長這是詐騙犯詐騙犯這麼囂張出來之後在假釋期間還可以拍這種影片然後告訴大家說他的判決書就是他的履歷表這在台灣看到這個人也很年輕現在台灣的年輕人可能認為詐騙集團很光榮啊\n\n06:41.781 --> 06:57.006\n現在才是這個問題我想這個是很可惡的一個行為很可怕很可惡這個假釋犯你查出來好不好這個沒要求具體這個個案查出來有沒有這樣的事情這個個案查出來這個在假釋的人請部長把這個個案要找出來這樣的行為如果還放在社會上讓他犯罪不應該這個先處理吧我們未來針對被害人的保護以及\n\n07:11.972 --> 07:34.052\n具體的酋刑乃至於考慮到未來這些人的禁舍令我們都是在修法的概念當中趕快進來吧我們趕快幫你修法不要再等了吧一年了成效如果只有這樣的話還有這麼一個影片的話我是覺得成效真的很不好下一個接下來是這是第一個今天大家都在談數字大家就看一下\n\n07:35.773 --> 07:58.264\n這個數字剛剛部長一直說這是統計方法的問題我同意統計方法有問題不過這叫做之前都在當遮羞布遮羞布掀開之後所有的金額出來就不一樣這個原來統計數字是以警方做初步調查之後才裁的一個數字現在是一個報案的一個數字我同意本來就應該這樣\n\n08:01.745 --> 08:22.924\n之前就是在那邊遮羞吃案所以這個不能講說遮羞吃案這個反正就是我的意思是說之前就是故意不報現在就是按照被害人說的算不是這樣的接下來院長你看到這個數字還是觸目驚心第一個你們的數字我不知道我這個是我們從打債儀表板8月份的統計數字2024年到502億12.2萬件現在2025年1到7月就566億\n\n08:28.849 --> 08:47.610\n你剛剛說的下降我同意可能他逐步在下降但是統計起來還是很可怕而且我跟委員報告因為整個一個詐團的一個詐欺的形態的一個改變以前是電話詐欺所以那個金額比較現在的件數其實是有在下降的件數小這也是一個投資的一個詐欺所以他那個數額會比較高\n\n08:49.911 --> 09:16.101\n所以不要再自有感覺良好它是在增加所以我現在在跟院長說我們要有數字概念沒有錯我同意大家努力的用距離8月的數字這裡是新年7月下降的幅度當然緩慢但趨勢是有的我們會再努力你如果做這麼多事還沒有下降真的是\n\n09:17.401 --> 09:18.182\n請尊重一下執勳的委員好嗎\n\n09:31.135 --> 09:52.137\n所以这个数字我希望看到的是它逐步的下降不管任何统计方式都不应该有这么大的偏差最严重的是诈骗里面投资诈骗占了多数投资诈骗我看到你们报告是说占了所有诈骗里面23%财产占了64%也就是说金额很高件数不见得最多\n\n09:53.078 --> 10:15.283\n但是投資詐騙裡面很多都是所謂的六個月才發現九成五三十天之內一半數所以意思就是說養套殺的狀況很嚴重養套殺是因為他對金融不了解或者是他對現在的金融商品不清楚很容易受到所謂的社群很容易受到所謂的廣告他就受到的影響\n\n10:16.363 --> 10:31.393\n所以這個剛剛講了很多的社區軟體要管理第二個我們現在有一大的最大的問題是虛擬資產虛擬資產是金管會的管轄虛擬資產在113年度審計部的總決算的審核報告針對所謂的虛擬資產的管理其實院長虛擬資產你知道現在的進度到哪裡了嗎\n\n10:45.417 --> 11:03.602\n我們要用工會來管理所以虛擬資產它有一個專法也一樣送進去行政院了請問什麼時候要送來立法院是我們6月27號送進院院裡面由政務委員已經開始在審查已經開過會議院長你可以去催啊快一點啊\n\n11:04.842 --> 11:29.720\n為什麼大家都不知道在台灣買哪些業者是合法的搞不清楚狀況每天都被人家騙可以趕快讓專法進來讓所有願意在台灣落地合法的業者能夠盡快的讓他們納入管理讓所有的民眾知道我要去哪裡買虛擬資產不是現在到處被人家亂騙一通啊\n\n11:32.369 --> 11:57.676\n金管會六月就進來了所以院長下個會期送來吧快吧快馬加鞭案子都在我就在等院長講了在你桌上你就趕快和啊只要趕快送到你桌上你來吹啊現在已經在那個審查中了他們都送了啦就是你們行政院我不知道啦動作慢半拍還是怎樣打詐是所有你的施政裡面我認為最急要的\n\n11:58.510 --> 12:14.975\n而且都有法案只是還沒有送到院長桌上接下來是剛剛講的打詐成效神器部院長你覺得我們接下來還可以改善什麼打詐的成效神器部其實有講過你覺得現在還可以改善的是哪些\n\n12:16.212 --> 12:29.669\n我覺得還是要從剛剛委員有提到懲詐後端就被害人的保護這方面應該再加強是第二個我剛才說審計部他其實說過了他說其實最嚴重的是我們165人力不穩定\n\n12:30.134 --> 12:47.166\n第二個沒有建立打炸成效的量化指標現在好像建立了第三個是165的量能不足去每年仍然有將近5萬通電話就被漏接了所以院長165可能是一個需要改進的地方\n\n12:47.745 --> 13:16.851\n那我會跟內政部跟165專線來檢討是人力不足漏接電話造成了後端沒有辦法懲詐我們用AI的方式來盡量能不能技術的導入這個可能要快再接下來一個是院長剛剛也看到大家都說了我們發生台中豐原的五口的命案不管他們的原因是什麼他最嚴重的是他們求助我們走投無路家破人亡\n\n13:18.158 --> 13:47.635\n這是台灣人最深切的悲哀為什麼他們沒有辦法得到幫助找不到人協助甚至好走上絕路我想這個是一個很嚴重的另外一個就是他們碰到了更嚴重的是剛剛講你剛講地震拿房子去抵押炸團還幫他介紹金主去貸款在借永無止盡的借今天另外一個問題叫做融資公司\n\n13:48.700 --> 14:05.526\n融資公司已經成為詐騙集團的共犯甚至有一些當鋪有一些相關的人他都變成跟詐騙集團說你們來借他錢繼續被我騙然後因為你是善良的第三人你借他錢你沒事啊\n\n14:06.641 --> 14:32.262\n所以現在的融資公司一樣經管會我們在立法院也提了融資公司專法然後監察院在114年的4月就告訴大家監察院認為說現在公股銀行融資給這些所謂的民營的註定公司是有問題的第二個是接下去是行政院應該要有專法院長這件事情你知道嗎\n\n14:33.100 --> 15:02.940\n是我們也在往這個方向在做經管會一直努力也時常跟我做說明現在經管會只管大不管小啦當然主委很幫忙已經納入經保法我們是逐步納管啦接下來主委我還是要講院長這件事情可能也是跟打詐有關如果融資公司我要先講馬來西亞在7月份通過了他們的轉法馬來西亞針對非銀行的借貸業者全部納入管理而且有監管條例\n\n15:03.760 --> 15:24.949\n這是臺灣可以學習可以接近的可以嗎要納入你的打詐的長期的目標我們不僅跨境打擊合作我們也希望吸取更多的國際好的經驗最後我覺得政府的資訊公開是人民比較不會受到詐騙的重要的關鍵包括一萬塊包括這些資訊都要完整的揭露好嗎\n\n15:28.629 --> 15:32.723\n好謝謝謝謝黃珊珊委員之間謝謝卓院長相關部會所長備詢謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.089,"end":0.109,"text":"黃國雲好"},{"start":23.427,"end":44.094,"text":"院長早我想今天打詐專報其實國人都非常的關心尤其是我認為詐騙正在傷害台灣您同意嗎這是一個全球性的犯罪行為台灣在這個工作上面我們還要持續的還要更加油院長上任之後有所謂的打詐惡典禮的政策從試詐賭詐阻詐懲詐"},{"start":49.161,"end":67.028,"text":"那您剛剛說了很多數字我想剛剛大家也都看到了數字現在的問題在於成詐一年前院長記得嗎我們在這裡在立法院通過了打詐專法這個專法通過了整整一年這一年來您覺得成效怎麼樣"},{"start":68.527,"end":89.569,"text":"我們在市詐跟防詐阻詐方面前面做很多懲詐呢但是懲詐可能還需要在刑事訴訟法懲詐的部分院長知道刑事法庭跟我們法務部還有我們立法院甚至跟行政院的立場完全不一樣我們通過的專法被司法院打臉院長知道嗎"},{"start":91.525,"end":104.044,"text":"我覺得針點在於如何把犯罪的金額能夠把它取回以及被害人如何加強我們去年7月通過了打詐專法經過一年到今年的1月份"},{"start":105.606,"end":128.648,"text":"最高法院開一個所謂的刑事大法去解釋我們當時為什麼立這個法立這個法的目的是什麼所以我們的立法意旨講得很清楚要如果你自白或自首繳回你的犯罪所得的話你可以減刑但是法院用所謂的繳回犯罪所得是他得到的酬勞所以一個車手繳回三千塊五千塊他就減刑了"},{"start":129.068,"end":144.99,"text":"今天這個法條已經被最高法院大法庭解釋成就是這樣了所以打臉行政院打臉法務部打臉立法院法務部長去年今年五月我問你你說你會修法有"},{"start":145.66,"end":169.723,"text":"法案立法院委員都已經提了案了法務部的草案有不敢拿出來院長你知道為什麼這個跟委員報告不敢拿出來為什麼這個法案現在在那個因為還在行政院審查所以院長在你桌上了沒因為還要再請司法院來一起來做一個討論我要問院長院長你看到了沒他要修法你知道嗎"},{"start":170.68,"end":182.818,"text":"布裡面送出來草案通常程序上還有經過政委他一個月之後就修了我們6月21號對政委會已經排了他也拿出他的草案了但到今天8月15號沒有任何影子"},{"start":183.703,"end":204.726,"text":"院長這叫做打架打一半啦對修法的方向是應該是明確而且可以進行是什麼時候要送來這個立法一直這麼清楚這個司法院完全不聯絡院長我再告訴你更可笑的當天6月21號內政部排審法案的時候法務部把他的草案拿出來司法院的代表告訴我們他第一次看到"},{"start":206.561,"end":230.263,"text":"你們事先不聯絡了嗎你們在立這個法之前沒有告訴司法院你們的態度嗎這部分是在行政院的委員會討論這是在行政院審查中一定會請司法院來表示意見院長我現在說的是一個行政院一個法務部如果我們的法案不跟司法院討論你再送過來就白搭所以現在行政院審查中有請司法院來表示意見嗎你做的事情你都做了我知道可是我們司法院不理你啦"},{"start":232.158,"end":257.259,"text":"國務院長 你要不要去協調一下司法院跟行政院是不是不聯絡這件事情呢我們這個有修法 我們是修法的方向我們要參考德國的立法例來做一個處理我要問院長報告委員 我們包括這個保護被害人我要說的是 行政院跟司法院要不要聯絡要不要溝通再來修 立法院再幫你通過 然後司法院照樣不判"},{"start":258.407,"end":277.515,"text":"我都還沒講完保護被害人以及陳少共犯幾個案子當中你要不要跟司法院溝通我說我們這個都會積極跟司法院在判當中會積極跟司法院溝通就不會發生這種事我給你個時間現在是8月5號下個會期開議前你可以把法案審過來嗎審查完之後我們就會送到司法院要什麼時候送到立法院來"},{"start":284.89,"end":298.898,"text":"審查他必須 打詐要打真的啦 今天這個專報完了之後你法院還是這樣子辦 你撐什麼詐下個會期送過來可以嗎 當然是要打真的 你我都可能受害我們旁邊的記者都可能受害 下個會期可以送來吧"},{"start":299.656,"end":313.18,"text":"我們現在已經在 九月份可以送來吧九月份 下個會期我覺得應該是 一定可以送來院長這很重要你的懲詐就在這裡面我現在給你看的影片喔時間暫定我要放影片 前一頁我現在要給院長看影片喔 謝謝二十六個備案"},{"start":330.435,"end":336.883,"text":"他是一個車手他交保了他出來教人家怎麼詐騙他在假釋"},{"start":345.323,"end":352.07,"text":"他說拿著他的判決書去在騙集團又會百分之百被錄取真的假的你看你這個判決書這麼多"},{"start":380.188,"end":399.462,"text":"好 請切掉院長 這是詐騙犯詐騙犯這麼囂張出來之後在假釋期間還可以拍這種影片然後告訴大家說他的判決書就是他的履歷表這在台灣 看到這個人也很年輕現在台灣的年輕人可能認為詐騙集團很光榮啊"},{"start":401.781,"end":417.006,"text":"現在才是這個問題我想這個是很可惡的一個行為很可怕很可惡這個假釋犯你查出來好不好這個沒要求具體這個個案查出來有沒有這樣的事情這個個案查出來這個在假釋的人請部長把這個個案要找出來這樣的行為如果還放在社會上讓他犯罪不應該這個先處理吧我們未來針對被害人的保護以及"},{"start":431.972,"end":454.052,"text":"具體的酋刑乃至於考慮到未來這些人的禁舍令我們都是在修法的概念當中趕快進來吧我們趕快幫你修法不要再等了吧一年了成效如果只有這樣的話還有這麼一個影片的話我是覺得成效真的很不好下一個接下來是這是第一個今天大家都在談數字大家就看一下"},{"start":455.773,"end":478.264,"text":"這個數字剛剛部長一直說這是統計方法的問題我同意統計方法有問題不過這叫做之前都在當遮羞布遮羞布掀開之後所有的金額出來就不一樣這個原來統計數字是以警方做初步調查之後才裁的一個數字現在是一個報案的一個數字我同意本來就應該這樣"},{"start":481.745,"end":502.924,"text":"之前就是在那邊遮羞吃案所以這個不能講說遮羞吃案這個反正就是我的意思是說之前就是故意不報現在就是按照被害人說的算不是這樣的接下來院長你看到這個數字還是觸目驚心第一個你們的數字我不知道我這個是我們從打債儀表板8月份的統計數字2024年到502億12.2萬件現在2025年1到7月就566億"},{"start":508.849,"end":527.61,"text":"你剛剛說的下降我同意可能他逐步在下降但是統計起來還是很可怕而且我跟委員報告因為整個一個詐團的一個詐欺的形態的一個改變以前是電話詐欺所以那個金額比較現在的件數其實是有在下降的件數小這也是一個投資的一個詐欺所以他那個數額會比較高"},{"start":529.911,"end":556.101,"text":"所以不要再自有感覺良好它是在增加所以我現在在跟院長說我們要有數字概念沒有錯我同意大家努力的用距離8月的數字這裡是新年7月下降的幅度當然緩慢但趨勢是有的我們會再努力你如果做這麼多事還沒有下降真的是"},{"start":557.401,"end":558.182,"text":"請尊重一下執勳的委員好嗎"},{"start":571.135,"end":592.137,"text":"所以这个数字我希望看到的是它逐步的下降不管任何统计方式都不应该有这么大的偏差最严重的是诈骗里面投资诈骗占了多数投资诈骗我看到你们报告是说占了所有诈骗里面23%财产占了64%也就是说金额很高件数不见得最多"},{"start":593.078,"end":615.283,"text":"但是投資詐騙裡面很多都是所謂的六個月才發現九成五三十天之內一半數所以意思就是說養套殺的狀況很嚴重養套殺是因為他對金融不了解或者是他對現在的金融商品不清楚很容易受到所謂的社群很容易受到所謂的廣告他就受到的影響"},{"start":616.363,"end":631.393,"text":"所以這個剛剛講了很多的社區軟體要管理第二個我們現在有一大的最大的問題是虛擬資產虛擬資產是金管會的管轄虛擬資產在113年度審計部的總決算的審核報告針對所謂的虛擬資產的管理其實院長虛擬資產你知道現在的進度到哪裡了嗎"},{"start":645.417,"end":663.602,"text":"我們要用工會來管理所以虛擬資產它有一個專法也一樣送進去行政院了請問什麼時候要送來立法院是我們6月27號送進院院裡面由政務委員已經開始在審查已經開過會議院長你可以去催啊 快一點啊"},{"start":664.842,"end":689.72,"text":"為什麼大家都不知道在台灣買哪些業者是合法的搞不清楚狀況每天都被人家騙可以趕快讓專法進來讓所有願意在台灣落地合法的業者能夠盡快的讓他們納入管理讓所有的民眾知道我要去哪裡買虛擬資產不是現在到處被人家亂騙一通啊"},{"start":692.369,"end":717.676,"text":"金管會六月就進來了所以院長下個會期送來吧快吧快馬加鞭案子都在我就在等院長講了在你桌上你就趕快和啊只要趕快送到你桌上你來吹啊現在已經在那個審查中了他們都送了啦就是你們行政院我不知道啦動作慢半拍還是怎樣打詐是所有你的施政裡面我認為最急要的"},{"start":718.51,"end":734.975,"text":"而且都有法案只是還沒有送到院長桌上接下來是剛剛講的打詐成效神器部院長你覺得我們接下來還可以改善什麼打詐的成效神器部其實有講過你覺得現在還可以改善的是哪些"},{"start":736.212,"end":749.669,"text":"我覺得還是要從剛剛委員有提到懲詐後端就被害人的保護這方面應該再加強是第二個我剛才說審計部他其實說過了他說其實最嚴重的是我們165人力不穩定"},{"start":750.134,"end":767.166,"text":"第二個沒有建立打炸成效的量化指標現在好像建立了第三個是165的量能不足去每年仍然有將近5萬通電話就被漏接了所以院長165可能是一個需要改進的地方"},{"start":767.745,"end":796.851,"text":"那我會跟內政部跟165專線來檢討是 人力不足漏接電話造成了後端沒有辦法懲詐我們用AI的方式來盡量能不能技術的導入這個可能要快再接下來一個是院長剛剛也看到大家都說了我們發生台中豐原的五口的命案不管他們的原因是什麼他最嚴重的是他們求助我們走投無路 家破人亡"},{"start":798.158,"end":827.635,"text":"這是台灣人最深切的悲哀為什麼他們沒有辦法得到幫助找不到人協助甚至好走上絕路我想這個是一個很嚴重的另外一個就是他們碰到了更嚴重的是剛剛講你剛講地震拿房子去抵押炸團還幫他介紹金主去貸款在借永無止盡的借今天另外一個問題叫做融資公司"},{"start":828.7,"end":845.526,"text":"融資公司已經成為詐騙集團的共犯甚至有一些當鋪有一些相關的人他都變成跟詐騙集團說你們來借他錢繼續被我騙然後因為你是善良的第三人你借他錢你沒事啊"},{"start":846.641,"end":872.262,"text":"所以現在的融資公司一樣經管會我們在立法院也提了融資公司專法然後監察院在114年的4月就告訴大家監察院認為說現在公股銀行融資給這些所謂的民營的註定公司是有問題的第二個是 接下去是行政院應該要有專法院長 這件事情你知道嗎"},{"start":873.1,"end":902.94,"text":"是 我們也在往這個方向在做經管會一直努力 也時常跟我做說明現在經管會只管大不管小啦當然 主委很幫忙已經納入經保法我們是逐步納管啦接下來主委我還是要講院長這件事情可能也是跟打詐有關如果融資公司我要先講馬來西亞在7月份通過了他們的轉法馬來西亞針對非銀行的借貸業者全部納入管理而且有監管條例"},{"start":903.76,"end":924.949,"text":"這是臺灣可以學習可以接近的可以嗎要納入你的打詐的長期的目標我們不僅跨境打擊合作我們也希望吸取更多的國際好的經驗最後我覺得政府的資訊公開是人民比較不會受到詐騙的重要的關鍵包括一萬塊包括這些資訊都要完整的揭露好嗎"},{"start":928.629,"end":932.723,"text":"好 謝謝 謝謝黃珊珊委員之間謝謝卓院長 相關部會所長備詢 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1678,"blocks":[["黃委員珊珊：（10時38分）謝謝主席，我請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長早。我想今天打詐專報，其實國人都非常的關心，尤其我認為詐騙正在傷害臺灣，您同意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是一個全球性的犯罪行為，臺灣在這個工作上面還要持續的……"],["黃委員珊珊：還要更加油。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長上任之後有所謂的打詐2.0政策，從識詐、堵詐、阻詐、懲詐，您剛剛說了很多數字，我想剛剛大家也都看到了數字，現在的問題在於懲詐。一年前，院長記得嗎？我們在立法院通過了打詐專法，這個專法通過了整整一年，這一年來您覺得成效怎麼樣？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在識詐跟防詐、阻詐方面有相當的成效……"],["黃委員珊珊：前面做很多，懲詐呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：但是懲詐可能還需要在刑事訴訟法……"],["黃委員珊珊：懲詐的部分，院長知道刑事法庭跟法務部還有我們立法院，甚至跟行政院的立場完全不一樣，我們通過的專法被司法院打臉，院長知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得爭點在於如何能夠把犯罪的金額取回，以及對被害人如何加強……"],["黃委員珊珊：這個比較有趣，院長，我們去年7月通過了打詐專法，經過一年到今年的1月份，最高法院開了所謂的刑事大法庭解釋我們當時為什麼立這個法，立這個法的目的是什麼，所以我們立法意旨講得很清楚，如果自白或自首，並繳回犯罪所得就可以減刑。但法院認為繳回的犯罪所得是他得到的酬勞，所以一個車手繳回三千塊、五千塊就可以減刑了！"],["卓院長榮泰：不成比例！"],["黃委員珊珊：今天這條法條已經被最高法院大法庭解釋成這樣，打臉行政院，打臉法務部，打臉立法院！法務部長，今年5月我問你，你說你會修法……"],["鄭部長銘謙：有。"],["黃委員珊珊：立法院的委員都已經提案了，法務部雖然有草案卻不敢拿出來，院長，你知道為什麼嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告……"],["黃委員珊珊：為什麼不敢拿出來？"],["鄭部長銘謙：法案現在還在……"],["黃委員珊珊：因為還在行政院審查！院長，法案送到你桌上了沒？"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為還要請司法院來一起討論……"],["黃委員珊珊：我要問院長。院長，你看到了沒？要修法，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：部裡面送出來的草案，通常程序上要經過政委來……"],["黃委員珊珊：他5月21日說要修法，且一個月之後就修了；6月21日內政委員會已經排了，他也拿出草案了，但到今天8月15日，仍不見任何影子，院長，這叫打詐打一半！"],["卓院長榮泰：修法的方向應該是明確且可以進行的。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，什麼時候要送來？立法意旨這麼清楚，你們卻完全不聯絡司法院？院長，我再告訴你更可笑的。6月21日當天內政部排審法案時，法務拿出草案，司法院代表告訴我們這是他第一次看到！你們事先不聯絡嗎？你們在立這個法之前沒有告訴司法院你們的態度嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分是在行政院……"],["黃委員珊珊：第二，修草案前有沒有跟他們討論過？"],["鄭部長銘謙：在行政院審查中，一定會請司法院表示意見……"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，我現在要說的是，一個行政院、一個法務部，如果法案不跟司法院討論，即使你再送過來也是白搭！"],["鄭部長銘謙：現在行政院正在審查中，有請司法院代表表達意見……"],["黃委員珊珊：你該做的事你都做了，我知道，可是司法院不理你！你要不要去協調一下？院長，你要不要就司法院跟行政院不聯絡這件事情協調一下？"],["鄭部長銘謙：就這次修法，我們就修法的方向會參酌德國的立法例來做處理……"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，我在問院長！主席，我要問院長！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，包括保護被害人以及……"],["黃委員珊珊：我要說的是，行政院跟司法院要不要聯絡？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，我是說……"],["黃委員珊珊：要不要溝通？"],["卓院長榮泰：包括保護被害人的修法以及成效……"],["黃委員珊珊：這次你再修，立法院再幫你通過，然後司法院照樣不判？"],["卓院長榮泰：我都還沒講完！保護被害人以及成效部分……"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，你回答我，你要不要跟司法院溝通？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我們都會積極跟司法院溝通……"],["黃委員珊珊：會積極跟司法院溝通就不會發生這種事！我給你一個時間，現在是8月15日……"],["卓院長榮泰：草案在今年6月已經送到行政院審查，審查完會送司法院……"],["黃委員珊珊：你什麼時候送到立法院？"],["卓院長榮泰：審查必須經過政委……"],["黃委員珊珊：打詐要打真的！今天的專報完了之後，法院還是這樣判，你懲什麼詐？下個會期送過來可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：打詐當然要打真的，你我都可能受害，我們旁邊的親人都可能受害……"],["黃委員珊珊：下個會期可以送來吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：現在已經在行政院審查……"],["黃委員珊珊：9月份可以送來吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：9月份？下個會期一定可以送來。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，這很重要，懲詐就在這裡面！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們也贊成委員的想法，這的確很重要，所以我們的草案不是只針對個人的報酬跟被害人的損害……"],["黃委員珊珊：我現在要給院長看影片。","（播放影片）"],["黃委員珊珊：這是一個車手，他交保了，結果居然出來教人家怎麼詐騙。他還在假釋中，他說拿著判決書去詐騙集團一定會百分之百被錄取。院長，這是詐騙犯，一個詐騙犯居然這麼囂張！交保出來還在假釋期間，居然拍這種影片？然後告訴大家他的判決書就是他的履歷表，這在臺灣！這個人很年輕，現在臺灣的年輕人可能認為加入詐騙集團很光榮，這才是問題！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是很可惡的行為！"],["黃委員珊珊：很可怕！"],["鄭部長銘謙：很可惡！"],["黃委員珊珊：你把這個假釋犯查出來好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們要求具體求刑……"],["黃委員珊珊：這個個案去查出來有沒有這樣的事情！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們希望輕判的這個部分能夠做一個改善。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，這個個案查出來，把這個在假釋的人查出來……"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛已經請部長要把這個個案找出來，這樣的行為如果還放在社會上讓他犯案是不應該。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我想我們……"],["黃委員珊珊：這個先處理吧！懲詐要懲真的啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：未來針對被害人的保護以及具體的求刑，乃至於考慮到未來對這些人的禁奢令，我們都是在修法的概念當中。"],["黃委員珊珊：趕快送進來吧！我們趕快幫你修吧！"],["卓院長榮泰：都有這個方向。"],["黃委員珊珊：不要再等了，一年了，成效如果只有這樣，而且還有這麼一個影片的話，我是覺得成效真的很不好啦。"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告……"],["黃委員珊珊：好，這是第一個。接下來，今天大家都在談數字，那就來看一下，這個數字剛剛部長一直說這是統計方法的問題，我同意，統計方法有問題，不過這叫做之前都在當遮羞布……"],["鄭部長銘謙：跟委員報告，這個沒有遮羞布……"],["黃委員珊珊：遮羞修布掀開之後，所有的金額出來就不一樣了！"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個統計我要說明一下，原本的統計數字是以警方做初步調查之後才……"],["黃委員珊珊：我知道，所以我同意……"],["鄭部長銘謙：才出來的數字，現在是報案的數字，……"],["黃委員珊珊：我同意，本來就應該這樣！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是沒有查證過的數字，所以才會有落差。"],["黃委員珊珊：本來就應該這樣！之前就是在那邊遮羞、吃案！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個不能講說遮羞、吃案，這個反正就是還在調查釐清嘛！"],["黃委員珊珊：我的意思是說，之前就是故意不報嘛，現在就是按照被害人說的算……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個不是啊！沒有這種講法啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是。"],["鄭部長銘謙：不是這樣的啦！"],["黃委員珊珊：接下來，院長，你看這個數字還是令人怵目驚心，第一個，你們的數字我不知道，而這個是打詐儀錶板8月份的統計數字，2024年到502億、12.2萬件，而2025年1到7月就有566億耶，你剛剛說的下降，我同意，可能是逐步在下降，但是統計起來還是很可怕。"],["鄭部長銘謙：而且我要跟委員報告，因為整個詐團的詐欺型態有了改變，以前是電話詐欺，所以那個金額比較小，現在的件數其實是有在下降的……"],["黃委員珊珊：件數小、數字大。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這也是投資的詐欺，所以那個數額會比較高，這個我們都知道……"],["黃委員珊珊：所以不要再自我感覺良好，它是在增加的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：其實這個件數是一直有在減少，所以單看詐騙數額也不能夠窺全貌，所以我們檢視被害人跟被害件數是有下降的一個趨勢啦！"],["黃委員珊珊：所以我現在再跟院長說，我們要有數字概念沒有錯，我同意大家努力的……"],["卓院長榮泰：簡單的說，那個是去年8月的數字，這裡是今年7月的數字，下降的幅度當然緩慢，但趨勢是有的，我們會再努力。"],["黃委員珊珊：如果做了這麼多事還沒有下降，真的是不應該！"],["鄭部長銘謙：而且我要跟委員報告，說實在的，我們打詐是全方面的，我們也是有跟……"],["黃委員珊珊：部長，你為什麼要一直搶我的話呢？我還沒有問問題耶！請尊重一下質詢的委員，好嗎？","所以這個數字我希望看到的是它逐步下降，不管任何統計方式都不應該有這麼大的偏差。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，趨勢是如此。"],["黃委員珊珊：最嚴重的是在詐騙裡面，投資詐騙占了多數，我看到你們的報告提到，投資詐騙占了所有詐騙案件的23%，財損占了64%，也就是說金額很高，件數不見得最多，但是投資詐騙裡面很多都是所謂6個月才發現，有九成五，30天之內是半數。意思就是養套殺的狀況很嚴重，養套殺是因為他對金融不了解，或者是他對現在的金融商品不清楚，很容易受到所謂的社群、很容易受到所謂廣告的影響。"],["卓院長榮泰：是的。"],["黃委員珊珊：所以剛剛講了很多的社群軟體要管理。第二個，我們現在最大的問題是虛擬資產，虛擬資產是金管會的管轄，113年度審計部的總決算審核報告針對所謂虛擬資產的管理，院長，針對虛擬資產，你知道現在的進度到哪裡了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我請金管會答復。"],["黃委員珊珊：不知道？"],["卓院長榮泰：是由公會來管理。"],["黃委員珊珊：用公會來管理，所以虛擬資產有一個專法，也一樣送進行政院了，請問什麼時候要送來立法院？"],["彭主任委員金隆：報告委員，我們6月27號送進院裡面，政務委員已經開始審查，已經開過會了。"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，你該去催啊，要快一點！"],["卓院長榮泰：好，一定催。"],["黃委員珊珊：為什麼大家都不知道在臺灣有哪些業者是合法的，搞不清楚狀況，每天在那裡被人家騙！"],["彭主任委員金隆：這個我們在網頁上都有公布現在所有的合法業者。"],["黃委員珊珊：是，可以趕快讓專法進來，讓所有願意在臺灣落地合法的業者能夠儘快的被納入管理……"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，這是我們的方向。"],["黃委員珊珊：讓所有的民眾知道要去哪裡買虛擬資產，不是現在這樣到處被人家亂騙一通啦。院長，金管會6月就送進來了，所以院長，下個會期送來吧！快吧！快馬加鞭！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有問題。"],["彭主任委員金隆：好，沒有問題。"],["黃委員珊珊：案子都在，我就在等院長講了，在你桌上你就趕快核啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：儘快！"],["黃委員珊珊：要趕快送到你桌上，你要催啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：好，儘快把它審查完。"],["彭主任委員金隆：現在已經在審查中了。"],["黃委員珊珊：他們都送了啦，就是你們行政院，我不知道啦，動作慢半拍還是怎樣，打詐……"],["卓院長榮泰：政委還在審查中。"],["黃委員珊珊：打詐在你所有的施政裡面，我認為是最急要的，而且都有法案了，只是還沒有送到院長桌上。","接下來是剛剛講的打詐成效，院長，你覺得我們接下來還可以改善什麼？對於打詐的成效，審計部其實有講過耶！你覺得現在還可以改善的是哪些？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得還是要從剛剛委員有提到的懲詐後端，也就是被害人保護這方面應該再加強。"],["黃委員珊珊：是。第二個，我剛才說審計部其實說過了，他說最嚴重的是我們「165」的人力不穩定，第二個是沒有建立打詐成效的量化指標，現在好像建立了；第三個是「165」的量能不足，每年仍然有將近5萬通電話被漏接了。所以院長，「165」可能是一個需要改進的地方。"],["卓院長榮泰：我會跟內政部及「165」專線來檢討是不是要擴充……"],["黃委員珊珊：人力不足、漏接電話，造成了後端沒有辦法懲詐……"],["卓院長榮泰：或者是我們用AI的方式，儘量看看能不能技術導入。"],["黃委員珊珊：這個可能要快。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["黃委員珊珊：再接下來的是，院長剛剛也看到大家都說了，之前發生了臺中豐原的5口命案，不管他們的原因是什麼，最嚴重的是他們求助無門、走投無路、家破人亡，這是臺灣人最深切的悲哀，為什麼他們沒有辦法得到幫助，找不到人協助，甚至到最後走上絕路？我想這個是一個很嚴重的。另外一個就是他們碰到了更嚴重的事情，就是你剛剛講的地震，拿房子去抵押，詐團還幫他介紹金主去貸款，再借、永無止境的借，所以今天另外一個問題叫做融資公司。","融資公司已經成為詐騙集團的共犯，甚至有一些當舖、有一些相關的人，都變成跟詐騙集團合作，由你借他錢，然後他繼續被騙，但因為你是善良的第三人，你借他錢你沒事啊！所以現在的融資公司，一樣是金管會所管，我們在立法院也提了融資公司專法，然後監察院在114年4月就告訴大家，監察院認為現在公股銀行融資給這些所謂的民營租賃公司是有問題的。第二個，接下來是行政院應該要有專法。院長，這件事情你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我們也在往這個方向在做……"],["黃委員珊珊：專法！"],["卓院長榮泰：金管會一直努力，也時常跟我做說明……"],["黃委員珊珊：現在金管會只管大不管小啦，當然主委很幫忙，已經納入金保法。"],["彭主任委員金隆：對，我們是逐步納管啦，因為這已經成為今年的政策，馬上就要生效了。"],["黃委員珊珊：接下來，主委，我還是要講，院長，這件事情可能也跟打詐有關，如果融資公司，我要先講，馬來西亞在7月份通過了他們的專法，馬來西亞針對非銀行的借貸業者全部納入管理，而且有監管條例，這是臺灣可以學習、可以借鏡的，可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，我們……"],["黃委員珊珊：院長，至少要納入你的打詐長期目標。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不僅跨境合作打擊犯罪，我們也希望吸取更多的國際上好的經驗。"],["黃委員珊珊：最後，我覺得政府的資訊公開是人民比較不會受到詐騙的重要關鍵，包括1萬塊、包括這些資訊，都要完整的揭露，好嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，發放的問題，我們會謹慎來處理，謝謝。"],["黃委員珊珊：謝謝。"],["主席：好，謝謝黃珊珊委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","接下來請陳培瑜委員質詢，羅智強委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":49,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-15"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147101_00001"}}}