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{\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"疫\", \"start\": 423.498, \"end\": 423.719, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 423.719, \"end\": 424.199, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 424.199, \"end\": 424.639, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 424.639, \"end\": 424.82, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 424.82, \"end\": 425.08, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 425.08, \"end\": 425.24, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 425.24, \"end\": 425.32, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 425.32, \"end\": 426.081, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"針\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 426.081, \"end\": 426.201, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"同\", \"start\": 426.201, \"end\": 426.601, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 426.601, \"end\": 426.841, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 426.841, \"end\": 426.962, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": 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{\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 437.211, \"end\": 437.451, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"學\", \"start\": 437.451, \"end\": 437.751, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"校\", \"start\": 437.751, \"end\": 438.072, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 438.072, \"end\": 438.272, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"字\", \"start\": 438.272, \"end\": 438.292, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 440.814, \"end\": 468.593, \"text\": \"29.3%都是跟詐騙有關右手邊是少關所所收容的學生也都跟詐騙有關數字最高也就是說不管是少角校或是部長請回不好意思不管是少角校或是少關所其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多那關於學生犯罪的部分我認為可以分幾個部分一個是事前預防第二個是行為的處遇第三是後續追蹤我們來看下一張\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 440.814, \"end\": 440.934, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 440.934, \"end\": 441.054, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 441.054, \"end\": 441.514, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"詐\"}, {\"word\": \"騙\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 441.514, \"end\": 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577.205, \"end\": 606.876, \"text\": \"比起他去打工比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境他可能是因為家庭的需求家裡面沒有錢急需用錢或者是個人消費慾望的需求他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機新的球鞋對 部長不要懷疑新的球鞋可能五六千塊孩子們很想要或者是情感的需求例如說詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接觸小孩的情緒種種種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 577.205, \"end\": 577.345, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 577.345, \"end\": 577.505, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 577.505, \"end\": 577.685, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 577.685, \"end\": 577.865, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 577.865, \"end\": 578.105, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 578.105, \"end\": 578.325, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 578.325, \"end\": 578.445, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 578.445, \"end\": 578.586, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 578.586, \"end\": 578.766, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 578.766, \"end\": 578.926, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 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{\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 920.747, \"end\": 921.027, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 921.027, \"end\": 921.207, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 921.207, \"end\": 921.347, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 921.347, \"end\": 921.487, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 921.487, \"end\": 922.408, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 922.408, \"end\": 922.548, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 922.548, \"end\": 922.668, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 922.668, \"end\": 922.808, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 922.808, \"end\": 922.969, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 922.969, \"end\": 923.149, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 923.149, \"end\": 923.289, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 923.289, \"end\": 923.589, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 923.589, \"end\": 924.17, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"頭\"}, {\"word\": \"試\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 924.17, \"end\": 924.45, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 924.45, \"end\": 924.57, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"拜\", \"start\": 924.57, \"end\": 924.71, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"託\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 924.71, \"end\": 924.93, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 924.93, \"end\": 925.07, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 925.07, \"end\": 925.17, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 925.17, \"end\": 925.27, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 925.27, \"end\": 925.451, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 925.451, \"end\": 925.591, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 925.591, \"end\": 925.771, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 925.771, \"end\": 925.891, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 925.891, \"end\": 926.211, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 926.211, \"end\": 926.311, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"陳\"}, {\"word\": \"培\", \"start\": 926.311, \"end\": 926.391, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"鈺\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 926.391, \"end\": 926.411, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"資\"}, {\"word\": \"訊\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 926.411, \"end\": 926.431, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 926.431, \"end\": 926.632, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 926.632, \"end\": 926.792, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 926.792, \"end\": 926.932, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 926.932, \"end\": 927.692, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 927.692, \"end\": 927.712, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 935.595, \"end\": 935.696, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 935.696, \"end\": 935.797, \"score\": 0.726}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 935.797, \"end\": 935.938, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"樓\"}, {\"word\": \"旁\", \"start\": 935.938, \"end\": 936.08, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"聽\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 936.08, \"end\": 936.1, \"score\": 0.001}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,174 --> 00:00:27,072\n接下來我們請陳培餘委員質詢羅志強委員請準備好謝謝院長那有請卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好好卓院長早安我想我就藉著這個剛黃珊珊委員提到的165來第一張\n\n2\n00:00:29,965 --> 00:00:47,296\n這個是內政部警政署的165打詐儀表版我必須要說這個資訊其實對於非常多人想要認識詐騙真的很有幫助現在我的截圖上所顯現的數字是詐騙案件受理數也就是每一個當天有收到報案的電話\n\n3\n00:00:48,036 --> 00:01:06,343\n我说的是有收到报案然后呢当时我们组织了多少的金额其实相关的数字非常非常清楚我想我要鼓励这个部分因为刚刚院长您在做业务报告的时候也说在回答傅坤琦委员的时候您也说我们必须要持续给予现场的工作人员鼓励这件事情\n\n4\n00:01:06,923 --> 00:01:30,326\n因為詐騙的科技詐騙的心法說實話是日新月異而且從古至今不管是童話故事民間真實的生活其實壞人走的都比好人還要快我想這個現實是我們目前在做打詐業務最大的困境所以要拜託行政院繼續支持這個打詐儀表版的工作我認為這個非常重要下一張\n\n5\n00:01:31,857 --> 00:01:50,404\n我覺得這個也很棒最新詐騙案例然後有非常非常多的故事甚至還有語音播放這一次為了要做這個打詐專報的跟院長您的對話我自己很認真看了這個網站看了很多我覺得這件事情我們還有沒有機會透過數位影音化\n\n6\n00:01:51,084 --> 00:02:09,721\n因為說實話大家現在每天回到家滑手機可能沒有力氣看這麼多文字我不確定像這樣的文字內容或者是原來這麼多奇奇怪怪的詐騙案例我們可不可以怎麼樣讓更多國人看見跟更多國人知道我先跟部長分享一個案例院長對不起來下一張\n\n7\n00:02:12,477 --> 00:02:19,788\n這個是另一種注目這個是一個電視公司他們拍的專輯大概有30分鐘這裡面他們說記者住在這裡面48小時連續拍48個小時\n\n8\n00:02:25,401 --> 00:02:42,439\n他們記錄了165接線人員的辛勞跟他們所面對的困境我想我必須要幫他們拜託部長跟院長有沒有可能我自己發現從這個片子裡面後來也上網查了一些困境一個是他們其實在第一線每天平均要接超過1500通電話這個是有接進來的\n\n9\n00:02:44,901 --> 00:03:10,773\n然後呢這個電話當中他們不是只是告訴當事人說你真的被騙囉你真的被騙了他們還得去說服當事人說沒有啦他真的是騙你的我覺得我光是看那個螢光幕前的故事我都覺得心累這個30分鐘的紀錄片裡面呢他還拍到說長官還為了照顧他們的身心健康還有放了一些例如說夾娃娃機然後現場如何讓他們的工作狀態是舒適的可是說實話\n\n10\n00:03:11,893 --> 00:03:35,302\n在接到這麼多詐騙電話的過程當中我認為心累身體老累但我們有沒有機會再增加現場的服務量能這是第一個第二個我知道內政部其實長期有在關心遠景身心健康這個非常重要但我也很想跟部長您討論我認為165的這個第一線接電話這些同仁他們的身心健康所需要的服務可能跟第一線遠景\n\n11\n00:03:36,542 --> 00:03:58,585\n的狀態是不一樣的例如說這裡面好幾個工作人員講到的話我非常印象深刻其中有一個人說他騎摩托車回家下班的時候他都覺得他有幻聽一直聽到電話聲那我也可以想見如果我每天在那邊排班要8到10個小時電話一進來我就要立刻按平均一通電話可能20分鐘我要勸那個人甚至我要教那個人怎麼報案甚至樓上還有\n\n12\n00:03:59,667 --> 00:04:13,783\n負責比較高科技處理的人還要下來對現場接到那些狀況也就是說他們在現場接到的狀況是已經看得懂的詐騙還有看不懂的詐騙還有打電話進來的人的身心疲勞這件事情其實讓所有工作人員\n\n13\n00:04:14,524 --> 00:04:35,831\n非常非常辛苦所以我想在針對相關議題進行討論實質政策我們可以做什麼之前我可不可以拜託部長跟院長我們如何協助165這些現場的工作同仁可以有更好的身心健康支援謝謝委員的關心我想我們165的第一線的同仁基本上是警政署的保醫總隊那我們現在已經增加到47人\n\n14\n00:04:38,138 --> 00:04:58,287\n這些分三班都非常的辛苦在工作那院長也多次到現場去慰問而且我們採取的是多國的語言包括我們要協助移工或是其他的外國人都包含在內所以我們現在要除了人力增強以外還要增加了就是有關技術面的部分比如說我們把圈存的通報電子化\n\n15\n00:04:58,767 --> 00:05:22,459\n从今年年初的时候已经开始了就是说把它改为由系统的线上作业不需要再用纸本的传真那另外一个呢就是接通率的目前为止已经提升到86.6%那再来就是我们要建置一个新的系统这个新的系统就是刚刚院长有跟各位报告的就是我们想要导入这个AI的人工智慧的技术那重建原有165的系统功能\n\n16\n00:05:23,459 --> 00:05:48,591\n這個就是為了服務165的近線電話裡面能夠馬上得到警政署的協助另外一個也非常謝謝陳委員的關心有關在第一線處理反詐或者是說接聽電話的同仁他們的身心健康我想我們本來就有關注到這一點我們會來持續加強如果有必要的話我們還是會請專業的心理諮商師來介入希望他們能夠保持在職場上面一個健康的狀態\n\n17\n00:05:49,671 --> 00:06:17,269\n對因為我真的看了這個片子我重複看了兩遍我真的很心疼他們因為做案那邊真的壓力閃打而且可能打進來電話那個人錢其實已經匯款出去了因為現在有非常多詐騙其實是線上匯款不見得是尤其是剛剛院長有講到我們有第一線的銀行人員在阻詐這件事情確實已經受到成效可是其實更多的是數位科技甚至當我們好人端這邊在運用AI不要忘了壞人也在運用AI所以其實有90%是透過線上\n\n18\n00:06:18,409 --> 00:06:32,995\n這件事情所以真的要拜託部長跟院長我想就身心健康這件事情也好技術層面的也好或者是多國語言這些他們現場所增加的服務我們在後端給予他們更多的支持好不好謝謝部長跟謝謝院長那我們接下來看一下謝謝\n\n19\n00:06:34,437 --> 00:06:58,454\n下一張這個數據會說話其實剛剛兩位委員都提到相關數字我要先提醒大家如果我們看111跟112跟113其實數字是又上升又下來那一定這個數字背後代表一些趨勢那趨勢的原因到底是什麼我認為原因非常的複雜多元大概沒有辦法用單一的原因來看可是我要談的是這個是確實全世界的人民在面對的現實\n\n20\n00:06:59,835 --> 00:07:18,292\n如果願意關心國際新聞就知道其實美國這幾年從疫情開始非常多而且針對不同國家不同語言的詐騙也非常非常多那如果我們回到台灣我比較關心的是兒少的部分從詐騙來看兒少怎麼說呢在投影片的左手邊矯正學校的數字\n\n21\n00:07:20,814 --> 00:07:48,593\n29.3%都是跟詐騙有關右手邊是少關所所收容的學生也都跟詐騙有關數字最高也就是說不管是少角校或是部長請回不好意思不管是少角校或是少關所其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多那關於學生犯罪的部分我認為可以分幾個部分一個是事前預防第二個是行為的處遇第三是後續追蹤我們來看下一張\n\n22\n00:07:50,606 --> 00:08:09,952\n好這一張呢是我們看到少事法我們知道目前針對事前預防的部分我知道現在我們要增加少年前科三年內沒有在因為故意觸犯刑法或法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者這個門檻我知道我們要調整對不對部長\n\n23\n00:08:10,757 --> 00:08:29,285\n是這個一定是要做三級的預防這41哨角效裡面的一些很非常重要的一個機制那我想這可以預防也可以在哨角現在可以要做好然後以後就出效的時候能夠跟社會作為現在再一個就學就會可以做一個比較好的一個處理\n\n24\n00:08:29,625 --> 00:08:44,954\n部長你覺得我們做這個修法真的有可以幫助少年詐欺犯罪的預防嗎怎麼說因為我認為詐欺這件事情它的背後因素真的非常非常多容我先往後說第一個我知道其實行政院在今年\n\n25\n00:08:46,214 --> 00:09:11,694\n新政院3月的時候核定了一筆經費是4年內我們要投入76億關於預防兒童及少年犯罪方案14到17年我覺得這件事情非常非常重要為什麼要從修法開始談起因為少年青少年現在儼然成為各式犯罪集團非常重要的工具人因為孩子有這個豁免的條款所以導致於這些黑道這些詐騙集團的大人\n\n26\n00:09:12,194 --> 00:09:36,445\n他們直覺想到可以利用青少年那我知道我們相關的規劃是希望可以從初級預防二級預防到後續孩子們回歸社會回歸家庭回歸社區的時候有一個好的路可以選擇可是我看到相關的困境是當孩子們在面對自己可能變成詐騙集團或是走進去之後發現好像真的有利可圖有甜頭\n\n27\n00:09:37,205 --> 00:10:06,876\n比起他去打工比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境他可能是因為家庭的需求家裡面沒有錢急需用錢或者是個人消費慾望的需求他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機新的球鞋對部長不要懷疑新的球鞋可能五六千塊孩子們很想要或者是情感的需求例如說詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接觸小孩的情緒種種種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人\n\n28\n00:10:07,441 --> 00:10:24,615\n可以看得見可以接得住的所以我才會問說我們如何在未來14到1776億防止青少年犯罪這一塊我們加入一個這個部分我剛講的如何接住這些孩子原生社區原生家庭在學校的需求跟困境讓他們有\n\n29\n00:10:25,476 --> 00:10:54,077\n提早理解更多假設我真的加入了詐團假設我真的成為其中犯罪的一份子或是我被關進去之後我在掃腳效我在掃關鎖會發生什麼樣的事情我出來還會面對什麼樣的困境剛剛黃珊珊委員播的那個影片大家只有看見快樂的一面可是壞人都是這樣啊他騙你吃蘋果之前他跟你說蘋果很好吃可是他沒有告訴你你吃了毒蘋果你會發生什麼事情我認為我們要讓孩子及早知道這些事情雖然看起來是\n\n30\n00:10:54,938 --> 00:11:21,017\n有點像恐嚇但我們轉換一個語法轉換一個說法讓孩子知道你犯了錯你犯了罪我們不會因為你是少年就不告訴你可能會有的後果我想拜託法務部在後續114到117年這個四年防治計畫當中如何加入這個部分也就是在三級預防的前兩級初級預防跟二級預防我們提早加入這個觀念給小孩我想聽一下部長您的回應\n\n31\n00:11:22,178 --> 00:11:41,947\n謝謝的確委員對這個問題很深入了解當然提到的宣導面已經讓小朋友讓學生兒童少年聽清楚這個絕對不能夠去吃毒蘋果這個是不要被詐團所利用當車手當搜捕手甚至提供一些個資的我想這部分我們會全力來做一個\n\n32\n00:11:43,117 --> 00:12:05,057\n一個做一個宣導那我想這邊我們跟主管機關來做一個合作主管機關一定還有教育部教育部還有衛福部內政部勞動部還有法務部這幾個部會那以法務部來講的話我們重要是在少小校跟少關所那也是在學校的這一部分那因為在一個成長在少年這部分\n\n33\n00:12:05,297 --> 00:12:24,257\n我也清楚這個少女私人主流我們法務部是沒辦法去碰這個區塊的我知道但是我們有更多初級預防跟二級預防嘛這個本來就是跨部會需要一起努力的好不好我就提出我們的觀察跟問題因為確實少角校跟少關所這幾年也確實被詐騙的孩子們充滿了這個\n\n34\n00:12:26,639 --> 00:12:49,982\n所以你们其实也会很辛苦那我们来看到假设他们真的发生了这些行为然后被放进少教校跟少关所目前我们看到你们相关的辅导的内容我看到有弟子归影片生命重塑灵性生命我知道因为孩子们进来的时间或长或短你们可以发生影响力的时间也或长或短有非常多的变数但我要说我认为相关的课程真的必须要与时俱进\n\n35\n00:12:50,462 --> 00:13:04,238\n到底弟子規我知道我們上次去考察的時候你們跟我說弟子規的老師是有證照的老師但是部長我真心要說弟子規真的是我們這個世代的孩子他們聽得下去的嘛與其叫他們弟子規不如\n\n36\n00:13:05,719 --> 00:13:34,181\n黃珊珊委員剛剛那個影片更有效他們看完之後你們好好的告訴他們你在前面做了這個壞事看似光鮮亮麗但陰暗面黑暗的那一面孩子你們必須承受什麼我認為這個事情搞不好更實際也就是說相關的矯正課程在做行為處遇的階段我認為我們要更加與時俱進更靠近他們不要忘了他們在被放進哨角跟哨關之前他們可是每天拿著手機看短影片\n\n37\n00:13:34,902 --> 00:13:37,279\n的小孩你突然讓他回到這個\n\n38\n00:13:39,212 --> 00:14:05,642\n我們上一個時代在看的弟子規我覺得有嚴重的落差他們根本在裡面就是把眼睛閉起來把耳朵關起來這個要拜託部長所以我認為教化如果要把這麼多課程安排放進來我們的教化人力就要調整輔導人力就要調整可是現在現行我知道國教署有在協助你們但我認為人力是不夠的其實你們自己也非常清楚所以在這個而且這些小孩說實話如果他們在一般校園裡面他們會被放\n\n39\n00:14:05,942 --> 00:14:23,222\n放在所谓二级跟三级的辅导回到学辅法的角度他是属于二级辅导跟三级辅导的对象而二级辅导跟三级辅导他急需要高度的专业去同理他支持他接纳他他才有可能跟我们大人站在一起说好我试试看\n\n40\n00:14:23,742 --> 00:14:43,235\n我來改邪歸正我來努力看看而這個部分可能也是你們現在缺乏的人力我時間有限我是不是就先把問題提出到這裡拜託部長把相關的意見帶回去不管是少角校少關所我們在初級二級三級每一個階段我們都需要足夠多的專業人力來協助這些已經走上\n\n41\n00:14:44,639 --> 00:15:01,657\n不好的路的孩子他們回過頭來他們想要回頭的時候我們大人接得住好不好拜託部長報告委員我曾經要求教育法務部對於經過這些少年處遇的少年犯結束了這個行為處遇之後他進到社會他的再犯率有多高\n\n42\n00:15:02,372 --> 00:15:27,712\n研究一下跟原來我們這些矯正或是關乎的這個制度跟內容是不是相關是不是我們必須從這裡改善來讓他們回去社會之後降低他們的再犯率這個是值得我們研究的我今天只是要他們去做好謝謝院長所以我很謝謝你們收到我的訊息我對於孩子們的關心希望他們還來得及在成年之前回頭試案要拜託我們大人一起努力好嗎謝謝院長好謝謝陳培鈺委員資訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝\n\n43\n00:15:35,595 --> 00:15:36,100\n現在在議場二樓旁聽來自\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n174\t27072\t接下來我們請陳培餘委員質詢羅志強委員請準備好 謝謝院長那有請卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好好 卓院長早安我想我就藉著這個剛黃珊珊委員提到的165來 第一張\n29965\t47296\t這個是內政部警政署的165打詐儀表版我必須要說這個資訊其實對於非常多人想要認識詐騙真的很有幫助現在我的截圖上所顯現的數字是詐騙案件受理數也就是每一個當天有收到報案的電話\n48036\t66343\t我说的是有收到报案然后呢当时我们组织了多少的金额其实相关的数字非常非常清楚我想我要鼓励这个部分因为刚刚院长您在做业务报告的时候也说在回答傅坤琦委员的时候您也说我们必须要持续给予现场的工作人员鼓励这件事情\n66923\t90326\t因為詐騙的科技詐騙的心法說實話是日新月異而且從古至今不管是童話故事民間真實的生活其實壞人走的都比好人還要快我想這個現實是我們目前在做打詐業務最大的困境所以要拜託行政院繼續支持這個打詐儀表版的工作我認為這個非常重要下一張\n91857\t110404\t我覺得這個也很棒最新詐騙案例然後有非常非常多的故事甚至還有語音播放這一次為了要做這個打詐專報的跟院長您的對話我自己很認真看了這個網站看了很多我覺得這件事情我們還有沒有機會透過數位影音化\n111084\t129721\t因為說實話大家現在每天回到家滑手機可能沒有力氣看這麼多文字我不確定像這樣的文字內容或者是原來這麼多奇奇怪怪的詐騙案例我們可不可以怎麼樣讓更多國人看見跟更多國人知道我先跟部長分享一個案例院長對不起來下一張\n132477\t139788\t這個是另一種注目這個是一個電視公司他們拍的專輯大概有30分鐘這裡面他們說記者住在這裡面48小時連續拍48個小時\n145401\t162439\t他們記錄了165接線人員的辛勞跟他們所面對的困境我想我必須要幫他們拜託部長跟院長有沒有可能我自己發現從這個片子裡面後來也上網查了一些困境一個是他們其實在第一線每天平均要接超過1500通電話這個是有接進來的\n164901\t190773\t然後呢這個電話當中他們不是只是告訴當事人說你真的被騙囉你真的被騙了他們還得去說服當事人說沒有啦他真的是騙你的我覺得我光是看那個螢光幕前的故事我都覺得心累這個30分鐘的紀錄片裡面呢他還拍到說長官還為了照顧他們的身心健康還有放了一些例如說夾娃娃機然後現場如何讓他們的工作狀態是舒適的可是說實話\n191893\t215302\t在接到這麼多詐騙電話的過程當中我認為心累身體老累但我們有沒有機會再增加現場的服務量能這是第一個第二個我知道內政部其實長期有在關心遠景身心健康這個非常重要但我也很想跟部長您討論我認為165的這個第一線接電話這些同仁他們的身心健康所需要的服務可能跟第一線遠景\n216542\t238585\t的狀態是不一樣的例如說這裡面好幾個工作人員講到的話我非常印象深刻其中有一個人說他騎摩托車回家下班的時候他都覺得他有幻聽一直聽到電話聲那我也可以想見如果我每天在那邊排班要8到10個小時電話一進來我就要立刻按平均一通電話可能20分鐘我要勸那個人甚至我要教那個人怎麼報案甚至樓上還有\n239667\t253783\t負責比較高科技處理的人還要下來對現場接到那些狀況也就是說他們在現場接到的狀況是已經看得懂的詐騙還有看不懂的詐騙還有打電話進來的人的身心疲勞這件事情其實讓所有工作人員\n254524\t275831\t非常非常辛苦 所以我想在針對相關議題進行討論實質政策 我們可以做什麼之前我可不可以拜託部長跟院長我們如何協助165這些現場的工作同仁可以有更好的身心健康支援謝謝委員的關心 我想我們165的第一線的同仁基本上是警政署的保醫總隊那我們現在已經增加到47人\n278138\t298287\t這些分三班都非常的辛苦在工作那院長也多次到現場去慰問而且我們採取的是多國的語言包括我們要協助移工或是其他的外國人都包含在內所以我們現在要除了人力增強以外還要增加了就是有關技術面的部分比如說我們把圈存的通報電子化\n298767\t322459\t从今年年初的时候已经开始了就是说把它改为由系统的线上作业不需要再用纸本的传真那另外一个呢就是接通率的目前为止已经提升到86.6%那再来就是我们要建置一个新的系统这个新的系统就是刚刚院长有跟各位报告的就是我们想要导入这个AI的人工智慧的技术那重建原有165的系统功能\n323459\t348591\t這個就是為了服務165的近線電話裡面能夠馬上得到警政署的協助另外一個也非常謝謝陳委員的關心有關在第一線處理反詐或者是說接聽電話的同仁他們的身心健康我想我們本來就有關注到這一點我們會來持續加強如果有必要的話我們還是會請專業的心理諮商師來介入希望他們能夠保持在職場上面一個健康的狀態\n349671\t377269\t對 因為我真的看了這個片子我重複看了兩遍我真的很心疼他們因為做案那邊真的壓力閃打而且可能打進來電話那個人錢其實已經匯款出去了因為現在有非常多詐騙其實是線上匯款不見得是尤其是剛剛院長有講到我們有第一線的銀行人員在阻詐這件事情確實已經受到成效可是其實更多的是數位科技甚至當我們好人端這邊在運用AI不要忘了壞人也在運用AI所以其實有90%是透過線上\n378409\t392995\t這件事情所以真的要拜託部長跟院長我想就身心健康這件事情也好技術層面的也好或者是多國語言這些他們現場所增加的服務我們在後端給予他們更多的支持好不好謝謝部長跟謝謝院長那我們接下來看一下謝謝\n394437\t418454\t下一張這個數據會說話其實剛剛兩位委員都提到相關數字我要先提醒大家如果我們看111跟112跟113其實數字是又上升又下來那一定這個數字背後代表一些趨勢那趨勢的原因到底是什麼我認為原因非常的複雜多元大概沒有辦法用單一的原因來看可是我要談的是這個是確實全世界的人民在面對的現實\n419835\t438292\t如果願意關心國際新聞就知道其實美國這幾年從疫情開始非常多而且針對不同國家不同語言的詐騙也非常非常多那如果我們回到台灣我比較關心的是兒少的部分從詐騙來看兒少怎麼說呢在投影片的左手邊矯正學校的數字\n440814\t468593\t29.3%都是跟詐騙有關右手邊是少關所所收容的學生也都跟詐騙有關數字最高也就是說不管是少角校或是部長請回不好意思不管是少角校或是少關所其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多那關於學生犯罪的部分我認為可以分幾個部分一個是事前預防第二個是行為的處遇第三是後續追蹤我們來看下一張\n470606\t489952\t好這一張呢是我們看到少事法我們知道目前針對事前預防的部分我知道現在我們要增加少年前科三年內沒有在因為故意觸犯刑法或法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者這個門檻我知道我們要調整對不對部長\n490757\t509285\t是 這個一定是要做三級的預防這41哨角效裡面的一些很非常重要的一個機制那我想這可以預防也可以在哨角現在可以要做好然後以後就出效的時候能夠跟社會作為現在再一個就學就會可以做一個比較好的一個處理\n509625\t524954\t部長你覺得我們做這個修法真的有可以幫助少年詐欺犯罪的預防嗎怎麼說因為我認為詐欺這件事情它的背後因素真的非常非常多容我先往後說第一個我知道其實行政院在今年\n526214\t551694\t新政院3月的時候核定了一筆經費是4年內我們要投入76億關於預防兒童及少年犯罪方案14到17年我覺得這件事情非常非常重要為什麼要從修法開始談起因為少年青少年現在儼然成為各式犯罪集團非常重要的工具人因為孩子有這個豁免的條款所以導致於這些黑道這些詐騙集團的大人\n552194\t576445\t他們直覺想到可以利用青少年那我知道我們相關的規劃是希望可以從初級預防二級預防到後續孩子們回歸社會回歸家庭回歸社區的時候有一個好的路可以選擇可是我看到相關的困境是當孩子們在面對自己可能變成詐騙集團或是走進去之後發現好像真的有利可圖有甜頭\n577205\t606876\t比起他去打工比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境他可能是因為家庭的需求家裡面沒有錢急需用錢或者是個人消費慾望的需求他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機新的球鞋對 部長不要懷疑新的球鞋可能五六千塊孩子們很想要或者是情感的需求例如說詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接觸小孩的情緒種種種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人\n607441\t624615\t可以看得見可以接得住的所以我才會問說我們如何在未來14到1776億防止青少年犯罪這一塊我們加入一個這個部分我剛講的如何接住這些孩子原生社區原生家庭在學校的需求跟困境讓他們有\n625476\t654077\t提早理解更多假設我真的加入了詐團假設我真的成為其中犯罪的一份子或是我被關進去之後我在掃腳效我在掃關鎖會發生什麼樣的事情我出來還會面對什麼樣的困境剛剛黃珊珊委員播的那個影片大家只有看見快樂的一面可是壞人都是這樣啊他騙你吃蘋果之前他跟你說蘋果很好吃可是他沒有告訴你你吃了毒蘋果你會發生什麼事情我認為我們要讓孩子及早知道這些事情雖然看起來是\n654938\t681017\t有點像恐嚇但我們轉換一個語法轉換一個說法讓孩子知道你犯了錯你犯了罪我們不會因為你是少年就不告訴你可能會有的後果我想拜託法務部在後續114到117年這個四年防治計畫當中如何加入這個部分也就是在三級預防的前兩級初級預防跟二級預防我們提早加入這個觀念給小孩我想聽一下部長您的回應\n682178\t701947\t謝謝 的確委員對這個問題很深入了解當然提到的宣導面已經讓小朋友讓學生 兒童 少年聽清楚這個絕對不能夠去吃毒蘋果這個是不要被詐團所利用當車手 當搜捕手甚至提供一些個資的我想這部分我們會全力來做一個\n703117\t725057\t一個做一個宣導那我想這邊我們跟主管機關來做一個合作主管機關一定還有教育部教育部還有衛福部內政部勞動部還有法務部這幾個部會那以法務部來講的話我們重要是在少小校跟少關所那也是在學校的這一部分那因為在一個成長在少年這部分\n725297\t744257\t我也清楚這個少女私人主流我們法務部是沒辦法去碰這個區塊的我知道 但是我們有更多初級預防跟二級預防嘛這個本來就是跨部會需要一起努力的好不好 我就提出我們的觀察跟問題因為確實少角校跟少關所這幾年也確實被詐騙的孩子們充滿了這個\n746639\t769982\t所以你们其实也会很辛苦那我们来看到假设他们真的发生了这些行为然后被放进少教校跟少关所目前我们看到你们相关的辅导的内容我看到有弟子归影片生命重塑灵性生命我知道因为孩子们进来的时间或长或短你们可以发生影响力的时间也或长或短有非常多的变数但我要说我认为相关的课程真的必须要与时俱进\n770462\t784238\t到底弟子規我知道我們上次去考察的時候你們跟我說弟子規的老師是有證照的老師但是部長我真心要說弟子規真的是我們這個世代的孩子他們聽得下去的嘛與其叫他們弟子規不如\n785719\t814181\t黃珊珊委員剛剛那個影片更有效他們看完之後你們好好的告訴他們你在前面做了這個壞事看似光鮮亮麗但陰暗面黑暗的那一面孩子你們必須承受什麼我認為這個事情搞不好更實際也就是說相關的矯正課程在做行為處遇的階段我認為我們要更加與時俱進更靠近他們不要忘了他們在被放進哨角跟哨關之前他們可是每天拿著手機看短影片\n814902\t817279\t的小孩你突然讓他回到這個\n819212\t845642\t我們上一個時代在看的弟子規我覺得有嚴重的落差他們根本在裡面就是把眼睛閉起來把耳朵關起來這個要拜託部長所以我認為教化如果要把這麼多課程安排放進來我們的教化人力就要調整輔導人力就要調整可是現在現行我知道國教署有在協助你們但我認為人力是不夠的其實你們自己也非常清楚所以在這個而且這些小孩說實話如果他們在一般校園裡面他們會被放\n845942\t863222\t放在所谓二级跟三级的辅导回到学辅法的角度他是属于二级辅导跟三级辅导的对象而二级辅导跟三级辅导他急需要高度的专业去同理他支持他接纳他他才有可能跟我们大人站在一起说好我试试看\n863742\t883235\t我來改邪歸正我來努力看看而這個部分可能也是你們現在缺乏的人力我時間有限我是不是就先把問題提出到這裡拜託部長把相關的意見帶回去不管是少角校少關所我們在初級二級三級每一個階段我們都需要足夠多的專業人力來協助這些已經走上\n884639\t901657\t不好的路的孩子他們回過頭來他們想要回頭的時候我們大人接得住好不好拜託部長報告委員我曾經要求教育法務部對於經過這些少年處遇的少年犯結束了這個行為處遇之後他進到社會他的再犯率有多高\n902372\t927712\t研究一下跟原來我們這些矯正或是關乎的這個制度跟內容是不是相關是不是我們必須從這裡改善來讓他們回去社會之後降低他們的再犯率這個是值得我們研究的我今天只是要他們去做好 謝謝院長所以我很謝謝你們收到我的訊息我對於孩子們的關心希望他們還來得及在成年之前回頭試案要拜託我們大人一起努力 好嗎謝謝院長好 謝謝陳培鈺委員資訊謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝\n935595\t936100\t現在在議場二樓旁聽來自\n","txt":"接下來我們請陳培餘委員質詢羅志強委員請準備好 謝謝院長那有請卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好好 卓院長早安我想我就藉著這個剛黃珊珊委員提到的165來 第一張\n這個是內政部警政署的165打詐儀表版我必須要說這個資訊其實對於非常多人想要認識詐騙真的很有幫助現在我的截圖上所顯現的數字是詐騙案件受理數也就是每一個當天有收到報案的電話\n我说的是有收到报案然后呢当时我们组织了多少的金额其实相关的数字非常非常清楚我想我要鼓励这个部分因为刚刚院长您在做业务报告的时候也说在回答傅坤琦委员的时候您也说我们必须要持续给予现场的工作人员鼓励这件事情\n因為詐騙的科技詐騙的心法說實話是日新月異而且從古至今不管是童話故事民間真實的生活其實壞人走的都比好人還要快我想這個現實是我們目前在做打詐業務最大的困境所以要拜託行政院繼續支持這個打詐儀表版的工作我認為這個非常重要下一張\n我覺得這個也很棒最新詐騙案例然後有非常非常多的故事甚至還有語音播放這一次為了要做這個打詐專報的跟院長您的對話我自己很認真看了這個網站看了很多我覺得這件事情我們還有沒有機會透過數位影音化\n因為說實話大家現在每天回到家滑手機可能沒有力氣看這麼多文字我不確定像這樣的文字內容或者是原來這麼多奇奇怪怪的詐騙案例我們可不可以怎麼樣讓更多國人看見跟更多國人知道我先跟部長分享一個案例院長對不起來下一張\n這個是另一種注目這個是一個電視公司他們拍的專輯大概有30分鐘這裡面他們說記者住在這裡面48小時連續拍48個小時\n他們記錄了165接線人員的辛勞跟他們所面對的困境我想我必須要幫他們拜託部長跟院長有沒有可能我自己發現從這個片子裡面後來也上網查了一些困境一個是他們其實在第一線每天平均要接超過1500通電話這個是有接進來的\n然後呢這個電話當中他們不是只是告訴當事人說你真的被騙囉你真的被騙了他們還得去說服當事人說沒有啦他真的是騙你的我覺得我光是看那個螢光幕前的故事我都覺得心累這個30分鐘的紀錄片裡面呢他還拍到說長官還為了照顧他們的身心健康還有放了一些例如說夾娃娃機然後現場如何讓他們的工作狀態是舒適的可是說實話\n在接到這麼多詐騙電話的過程當中我認為心累身體老累但我們有沒有機會再增加現場的服務量能這是第一個第二個我知道內政部其實長期有在關心遠景身心健康這個非常重要但我也很想跟部長您討論我認為165的這個第一線接電話這些同仁他們的身心健康所需要的服務可能跟第一線遠景\n的狀態是不一樣的例如說這裡面好幾個工作人員講到的話我非常印象深刻其中有一個人說他騎摩托車回家下班的時候他都覺得他有幻聽一直聽到電話聲那我也可以想見如果我每天在那邊排班要8到10個小時電話一進來我就要立刻按平均一通電話可能20分鐘我要勸那個人甚至我要教那個人怎麼報案甚至樓上還有\n負責比較高科技處理的人還要下來對現場接到那些狀況也就是說他們在現場接到的狀況是已經看得懂的詐騙還有看不懂的詐騙還有打電話進來的人的身心疲勞這件事情其實讓所有工作人員\n非常非常辛苦 所以我想在針對相關議題進行討論實質政策 我們可以做什麼之前我可不可以拜託部長跟院長我們如何協助165這些現場的工作同仁可以有更好的身心健康支援謝謝委員的關心 我想我們165的第一線的同仁基本上是警政署的保醫總隊那我們現在已經增加到47人\n這些分三班都非常的辛苦在工作那院長也多次到現場去慰問而且我們採取的是多國的語言包括我們要協助移工或是其他的外國人都包含在內所以我們現在要除了人力增強以外還要增加了就是有關技術面的部分比如說我們把圈存的通報電子化\n从今年年初的时候已经开始了就是说把它改为由系统的线上作业不需要再用纸本的传真那另外一个呢就是接通率的目前为止已经提升到86.6%那再来就是我们要建置一个新的系统这个新的系统就是刚刚院长有跟各位报告的就是我们想要导入这个AI的人工智慧的技术那重建原有165的系统功能\n這個就是為了服務165的近線電話裡面能夠馬上得到警政署的協助另外一個也非常謝謝陳委員的關心有關在第一線處理反詐或者是說接聽電話的同仁他們的身心健康我想我們本來就有關注到這一點我們會來持續加強如果有必要的話我們還是會請專業的心理諮商師來介入希望他們能夠保持在職場上面一個健康的狀態\n對 因為我真的看了這個片子我重複看了兩遍我真的很心疼他們因為做案那邊真的壓力閃打而且可能打進來電話那個人錢其實已經匯款出去了因為現在有非常多詐騙其實是線上匯款不見得是尤其是剛剛院長有講到我們有第一線的銀行人員在阻詐這件事情確實已經受到成效可是其實更多的是數位科技甚至當我們好人端這邊在運用AI不要忘了壞人也在運用AI所以其實有90%是透過線上\n這件事情所以真的要拜託部長跟院長我想就身心健康這件事情也好技術層面的也好或者是多國語言這些他們現場所增加的服務我們在後端給予他們更多的支持好不好謝謝部長跟謝謝院長那我們接下來看一下謝謝\n下一張這個數據會說話其實剛剛兩位委員都提到相關數字我要先提醒大家如果我們看111跟112跟113其實數字是又上升又下來那一定這個數字背後代表一些趨勢那趨勢的原因到底是什麼我認為原因非常的複雜多元大概沒有辦法用單一的原因來看可是我要談的是這個是確實全世界的人民在面對的現實\n如果願意關心國際新聞就知道其實美國這幾年從疫情開始非常多而且針對不同國家不同語言的詐騙也非常非常多那如果我們回到台灣我比較關心的是兒少的部分從詐騙來看兒少怎麼說呢在投影片的左手邊矯正學校的數字\n29.3%都是跟詐騙有關右手邊是少關所所收容的學生也都跟詐騙有關數字最高也就是說不管是少角校或是部長請回不好意思不管是少角校或是少關所其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多那關於學生犯罪的部分我認為可以分幾個部分一個是事前預防第二個是行為的處遇第三是後續追蹤我們來看下一張\n好這一張呢是我們看到少事法我們知道目前針對事前預防的部分我知道現在我們要增加少年前科三年內沒有在因為故意觸犯刑法或法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者這個門檻我知道我們要調整對不對部長\n是 這個一定是要做三級的預防這41哨角效裡面的一些很非常重要的一個機制那我想這可以預防也可以在哨角現在可以要做好然後以後就出效的時候能夠跟社會作為現在再一個就學就會可以做一個比較好的一個處理\n部長你覺得我們做這個修法真的有可以幫助少年詐欺犯罪的預防嗎怎麼說因為我認為詐欺這件事情它的背後因素真的非常非常多容我先往後說第一個我知道其實行政院在今年\n新政院3月的時候核定了一筆經費是4年內我們要投入76億關於預防兒童及少年犯罪方案14到17年我覺得這件事情非常非常重要為什麼要從修法開始談起因為少年青少年現在儼然成為各式犯罪集團非常重要的工具人因為孩子有這個豁免的條款所以導致於這些黑道這些詐騙集團的大人\n他們直覺想到可以利用青少年那我知道我們相關的規劃是希望可以從初級預防二級預防到後續孩子們回歸社會回歸家庭回歸社區的時候有一個好的路可以選擇可是我看到相關的困境是當孩子們在面對自己可能變成詐騙集團或是走進去之後發現好像真的有利可圖有甜頭\n比起他去打工比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境他可能是因為家庭的需求家裡面沒有錢急需用錢或者是個人消費慾望的需求他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機新的球鞋對 部長不要懷疑新的球鞋可能五六千塊孩子們很想要或者是情感的需求例如說詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接觸小孩的情緒種種種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人\n可以看得見可以接得住的所以我才會問說我們如何在未來14到1776億防止青少年犯罪這一塊我們加入一個這個部分我剛講的如何接住這些孩子原生社區原生家庭在學校的需求跟困境讓他們有\n提早理解更多假設我真的加入了詐團假設我真的成為其中犯罪的一份子或是我被關進去之後我在掃腳效我在掃關鎖會發生什麼樣的事情我出來還會面對什麼樣的困境剛剛黃珊珊委員播的那個影片大家只有看見快樂的一面可是壞人都是這樣啊他騙你吃蘋果之前他跟你說蘋果很好吃可是他沒有告訴你你吃了毒蘋果你會發生什麼事情我認為我們要讓孩子及早知道這些事情雖然看起來是\n有點像恐嚇但我們轉換一個語法轉換一個說法讓孩子知道你犯了錯你犯了罪我們不會因為你是少年就不告訴你可能會有的後果我想拜託法務部在後續114到117年這個四年防治計畫當中如何加入這個部分也就是在三級預防的前兩級初級預防跟二級預防我們提早加入這個觀念給小孩我想聽一下部長您的回應\n謝謝 的確委員對這個問題很深入了解當然提到的宣導面已經讓小朋友讓學生 兒童 少年聽清楚這個絕對不能夠去吃毒蘋果這個是不要被詐團所利用當車手 當搜捕手甚至提供一些個資的我想這部分我們會全力來做一個\n一個做一個宣導那我想這邊我們跟主管機關來做一個合作主管機關一定還有教育部教育部還有衛福部內政部勞動部還有法務部這幾個部會那以法務部來講的話我們重要是在少小校跟少關所那也是在學校的這一部分那因為在一個成長在少年這部分\n我也清楚這個少女私人主流我們法務部是沒辦法去碰這個區塊的我知道 但是我們有更多初級預防跟二級預防嘛這個本來就是跨部會需要一起努力的好不好 我就提出我們的觀察跟問題因為確實少角校跟少關所這幾年也確實被詐騙的孩子們充滿了這個\n所以你们其实也会很辛苦那我们来看到假设他们真的发生了这些行为然后被放进少教校跟少关所目前我们看到你们相关的辅导的内容我看到有弟子归影片生命重塑灵性生命我知道因为孩子们进来的时间或长或短你们可以发生影响力的时间也或长或短有非常多的变数但我要说我认为相关的课程真的必须要与时俱进\n到底弟子規我知道我們上次去考察的時候你們跟我說弟子規的老師是有證照的老師但是部長我真心要說弟子規真的是我們這個世代的孩子他們聽得下去的嘛與其叫他們弟子規不如\n黃珊珊委員剛剛那個影片更有效他們看完之後你們好好的告訴他們你在前面做了這個壞事看似光鮮亮麗但陰暗面黑暗的那一面孩子你們必須承受什麼我認為這個事情搞不好更實際也就是說相關的矯正課程在做行為處遇的階段我認為我們要更加與時俱進更靠近他們不要忘了他們在被放進哨角跟哨關之前他們可是每天拿著手機看短影片\n的小孩你突然讓他回到這個\n我們上一個時代在看的弟子規我覺得有嚴重的落差他們根本在裡面就是把眼睛閉起來把耳朵關起來這個要拜託部長所以我認為教化如果要把這麼多課程安排放進來我們的教化人力就要調整輔導人力就要調整可是現在現行我知道國教署有在協助你們但我認為人力是不夠的其實你們自己也非常清楚所以在這個而且這些小孩說實話如果他們在一般校園裡面他們會被放\n放在所谓二级跟三级的辅导回到学辅法的角度他是属于二级辅导跟三级辅导的对象而二级辅导跟三级辅导他急需要高度的专业去同理他支持他接纳他他才有可能跟我们大人站在一起说好我试试看\n我來改邪歸正我來努力看看而這個部分可能也是你們現在缺乏的人力我時間有限我是不是就先把問題提出到這裡拜託部長把相關的意見帶回去不管是少角校少關所我們在初級二級三級每一個階段我們都需要足夠多的專業人力來協助這些已經走上\n不好的路的孩子他們回過頭來他們想要回頭的時候我們大人接得住好不好拜託部長報告委員我曾經要求教育法務部對於經過這些少年處遇的少年犯結束了這個行為處遇之後他進到社會他的再犯率有多高\n研究一下跟原來我們這些矯正或是關乎的這個制度跟內容是不是相關是不是我們必須從這裡改善來讓他們回去社會之後降低他們的再犯率這個是值得我們研究的我今天只是要他們去做好 謝謝院長所以我很謝謝你們收到我的訊息我對於孩子們的關心希望他們還來得及在成年之前回頭試案要拜託我們大人一起努力 好嗎謝謝院長好 謝謝陳培鈺委員資訊謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝\n現在在議場二樓旁聽來自\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.174 --> 00:27.072\n接下來我們請陳培餘委員質詢羅志強委員請準備好謝謝院長那有請卓院長謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好好卓院長早安我想我就藉著這個剛黃珊珊委員提到的165來第一張\n\n00:29.965 --> 00:47.296\n這個是內政部警政署的165打詐儀表版我必須要說這個資訊其實對於非常多人想要認識詐騙真的很有幫助現在我的截圖上所顯現的數字是詐騙案件受理數也就是每一個當天有收到報案的電話\n\n00:48.036 --> 01:06.343\n我说的是有收到报案然后呢当时我们组织了多少的金额其实相关的数字非常非常清楚我想我要鼓励这个部分因为刚刚院长您在做业务报告的时候也说在回答傅坤琦委员的时候您也说我们必须要持续给予现场的工作人员鼓励这件事情\n\n01:06.923 --> 01:30.326\n因為詐騙的科技詐騙的心法說實話是日新月異而且從古至今不管是童話故事民間真實的生活其實壞人走的都比好人還要快我想這個現實是我們目前在做打詐業務最大的困境所以要拜託行政院繼續支持這個打詐儀表版的工作我認為這個非常重要下一張\n\n01:31.857 --> 01:50.404\n我覺得這個也很棒最新詐騙案例然後有非常非常多的故事甚至還有語音播放這一次為了要做這個打詐專報的跟院長您的對話我自己很認真看了這個網站看了很多我覺得這件事情我們還有沒有機會透過數位影音化\n\n01:51.084 --> 02:09.721\n因為說實話大家現在每天回到家滑手機可能沒有力氣看這麼多文字我不確定像這樣的文字內容或者是原來這麼多奇奇怪怪的詐騙案例我們可不可以怎麼樣讓更多國人看見跟更多國人知道我先跟部長分享一個案例院長對不起來下一張\n\n02:12.477 --> 02:19.788\n這個是另一種注目這個是一個電視公司他們拍的專輯大概有30分鐘這裡面他們說記者住在這裡面48小時連續拍48個小時\n\n02:25.401 --> 02:42.439\n他們記錄了165接線人員的辛勞跟他們所面對的困境我想我必須要幫他們拜託部長跟院長有沒有可能我自己發現從這個片子裡面後來也上網查了一些困境一個是他們其實在第一線每天平均要接超過1500通電話這個是有接進來的\n\n02:44.901 --> 03:10.773\n然後呢這個電話當中他們不是只是告訴當事人說你真的被騙囉你真的被騙了他們還得去說服當事人說沒有啦他真的是騙你的我覺得我光是看那個螢光幕前的故事我都覺得心累這個30分鐘的紀錄片裡面呢他還拍到說長官還為了照顧他們的身心健康還有放了一些例如說夾娃娃機然後現場如何讓他們的工作狀態是舒適的可是說實話\n\n03:11.893 --> 03:35.302\n在接到這麼多詐騙電話的過程當中我認為心累身體老累但我們有沒有機會再增加現場的服務量能這是第一個第二個我知道內政部其實長期有在關心遠景身心健康這個非常重要但我也很想跟部長您討論我認為165的這個第一線接電話這些同仁他們的身心健康所需要的服務可能跟第一線遠景\n\n03:36.542 --> 03:58.585\n的狀態是不一樣的例如說這裡面好幾個工作人員講到的話我非常印象深刻其中有一個人說他騎摩托車回家下班的時候他都覺得他有幻聽一直聽到電話聲那我也可以想見如果我每天在那邊排班要8到10個小時電話一進來我就要立刻按平均一通電話可能20分鐘我要勸那個人甚至我要教那個人怎麼報案甚至樓上還有\n\n03:59.667 --> 04:13.783\n負責比較高科技處理的人還要下來對現場接到那些狀況也就是說他們在現場接到的狀況是已經看得懂的詐騙還有看不懂的詐騙還有打電話進來的人的身心疲勞這件事情其實讓所有工作人員\n\n04:14.524 --> 04:35.831\n非常非常辛苦所以我想在針對相關議題進行討論實質政策我們可以做什麼之前我可不可以拜託部長跟院長我們如何協助165這些現場的工作同仁可以有更好的身心健康支援謝謝委員的關心我想我們165的第一線的同仁基本上是警政署的保醫總隊那我們現在已經增加到47人\n\n04:38.138 --> 04:58.287\n這些分三班都非常的辛苦在工作那院長也多次到現場去慰問而且我們採取的是多國的語言包括我們要協助移工或是其他的外國人都包含在內所以我們現在要除了人力增強以外還要增加了就是有關技術面的部分比如說我們把圈存的通報電子化\n\n04:58.767 --> 05:22.459\n从今年年初的时候已经开始了就是说把它改为由系统的线上作业不需要再用纸本的传真那另外一个呢就是接通率的目前为止已经提升到86.6%那再来就是我们要建置一个新的系统这个新的系统就是刚刚院长有跟各位报告的就是我们想要导入这个AI的人工智慧的技术那重建原有165的系统功能\n\n05:23.459 --> 05:48.591\n這個就是為了服務165的近線電話裡面能夠馬上得到警政署的協助另外一個也非常謝謝陳委員的關心有關在第一線處理反詐或者是說接聽電話的同仁他們的身心健康我想我們本來就有關注到這一點我們會來持續加強如果有必要的話我們還是會請專業的心理諮商師來介入希望他們能夠保持在職場上面一個健康的狀態\n\n05:49.671 --> 06:17.269\n對因為我真的看了這個片子我重複看了兩遍我真的很心疼他們因為做案那邊真的壓力閃打而且可能打進來電話那個人錢其實已經匯款出去了因為現在有非常多詐騙其實是線上匯款不見得是尤其是剛剛院長有講到我們有第一線的銀行人員在阻詐這件事情確實已經受到成效可是其實更多的是數位科技甚至當我們好人端這邊在運用AI不要忘了壞人也在運用AI所以其實有90%是透過線上\n\n06:18.409 --> 06:32.995\n這件事情所以真的要拜託部長跟院長我想就身心健康這件事情也好技術層面的也好或者是多國語言這些他們現場所增加的服務我們在後端給予他們更多的支持好不好謝謝部長跟謝謝院長那我們接下來看一下謝謝\n\n06:34.437 --> 06:58.454\n下一張這個數據會說話其實剛剛兩位委員都提到相關數字我要先提醒大家如果我們看111跟112跟113其實數字是又上升又下來那一定這個數字背後代表一些趨勢那趨勢的原因到底是什麼我認為原因非常的複雜多元大概沒有辦法用單一的原因來看可是我要談的是這個是確實全世界的人民在面對的現實\n\n06:59.835 --> 07:18.292\n如果願意關心國際新聞就知道其實美國這幾年從疫情開始非常多而且針對不同國家不同語言的詐騙也非常非常多那如果我們回到台灣我比較關心的是兒少的部分從詐騙來看兒少怎麼說呢在投影片的左手邊矯正學校的數字\n\n07:20.814 --> 07:48.593\n29.3%都是跟詐騙有關右手邊是少關所所收容的學生也都跟詐騙有關數字最高也就是說不管是少角校或是部長請回不好意思不管是少角校或是少關所其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多那關於學生犯罪的部分我認為可以分幾個部分一個是事前預防第二個是行為的處遇第三是後續追蹤我們來看下一張\n\n07:50.606 --> 08:09.952\n好這一張呢是我們看到少事法我們知道目前針對事前預防的部分我知道現在我們要增加少年前科三年內沒有在因為故意觸犯刑法或法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者這個門檻我知道我們要調整對不對部長\n\n08:10.757 --> 08:29.285\n是這個一定是要做三級的預防這41哨角效裡面的一些很非常重要的一個機制那我想這可以預防也可以在哨角現在可以要做好然後以後就出效的時候能夠跟社會作為現在再一個就學就會可以做一個比較好的一個處理\n\n08:29.625 --> 08:44.954\n部長你覺得我們做這個修法真的有可以幫助少年詐欺犯罪的預防嗎怎麼說因為我認為詐欺這件事情它的背後因素真的非常非常多容我先往後說第一個我知道其實行政院在今年\n\n08:46.214 --> 09:11.694\n新政院3月的時候核定了一筆經費是4年內我們要投入76億關於預防兒童及少年犯罪方案14到17年我覺得這件事情非常非常重要為什麼要從修法開始談起因為少年青少年現在儼然成為各式犯罪集團非常重要的工具人因為孩子有這個豁免的條款所以導致於這些黑道這些詐騙集團的大人\n\n09:12.194 --> 09:36.445\n他們直覺想到可以利用青少年那我知道我們相關的規劃是希望可以從初級預防二級預防到後續孩子們回歸社會回歸家庭回歸社區的時候有一個好的路可以選擇可是我看到相關的困境是當孩子們在面對自己可能變成詐騙集團或是走進去之後發現好像真的有利可圖有甜頭\n\n09:37.205 --> 10:06.876\n比起他去打工比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境他可能是因為家庭的需求家裡面沒有錢急需用錢或者是個人消費慾望的需求他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機新的球鞋對部長不要懷疑新的球鞋可能五六千塊孩子們很想要或者是情感的需求例如說詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接觸小孩的情緒種種種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人\n\n10:07.441 --> 10:24.615\n可以看得見可以接得住的所以我才會問說我們如何在未來14到1776億防止青少年犯罪這一塊我們加入一個這個部分我剛講的如何接住這些孩子原生社區原生家庭在學校的需求跟困境讓他們有\n\n10:25.476 --> 10:54.077\n提早理解更多假設我真的加入了詐團假設我真的成為其中犯罪的一份子或是我被關進去之後我在掃腳效我在掃關鎖會發生什麼樣的事情我出來還會面對什麼樣的困境剛剛黃珊珊委員播的那個影片大家只有看見快樂的一面可是壞人都是這樣啊他騙你吃蘋果之前他跟你說蘋果很好吃可是他沒有告訴你你吃了毒蘋果你會發生什麼事情我認為我們要讓孩子及早知道這些事情雖然看起來是\n\n10:54.938 --> 11:21.017\n有點像恐嚇但我們轉換一個語法轉換一個說法讓孩子知道你犯了錯你犯了罪我們不會因為你是少年就不告訴你可能會有的後果我想拜託法務部在後續114到117年這個四年防治計畫當中如何加入這個部分也就是在三級預防的前兩級初級預防跟二級預防我們提早加入這個觀念給小孩我想聽一下部長您的回應\n\n11:22.178 --> 11:41.947\n謝謝的確委員對這個問題很深入了解當然提到的宣導面已經讓小朋友讓學生兒童少年聽清楚這個絕對不能夠去吃毒蘋果這個是不要被詐團所利用當車手當搜捕手甚至提供一些個資的我想這部分我們會全力來做一個\n\n11:43.117 --> 12:05.057\n一個做一個宣導那我想這邊我們跟主管機關來做一個合作主管機關一定還有教育部教育部還有衛福部內政部勞動部還有法務部這幾個部會那以法務部來講的話我們重要是在少小校跟少關所那也是在學校的這一部分那因為在一個成長在少年這部分\n\n12:05.297 --> 12:24.257\n我也清楚這個少女私人主流我們法務部是沒辦法去碰這個區塊的我知道但是我們有更多初級預防跟二級預防嘛這個本來就是跨部會需要一起努力的好不好我就提出我們的觀察跟問題因為確實少角校跟少關所這幾年也確實被詐騙的孩子們充滿了這個\n\n12:26.639 --> 12:49.982\n所以你们其实也会很辛苦那我们来看到假设他们真的发生了这些行为然后被放进少教校跟少关所目前我们看到你们相关的辅导的内容我看到有弟子归影片生命重塑灵性生命我知道因为孩子们进来的时间或长或短你们可以发生影响力的时间也或长或短有非常多的变数但我要说我认为相关的课程真的必须要与时俱进\n\n12:50.462 --> 13:04.238\n到底弟子規我知道我們上次去考察的時候你們跟我說弟子規的老師是有證照的老師但是部長我真心要說弟子規真的是我們這個世代的孩子他們聽得下去的嘛與其叫他們弟子規不如\n\n13:05.719 --> 13:34.181\n黃珊珊委員剛剛那個影片更有效他們看完之後你們好好的告訴他們你在前面做了這個壞事看似光鮮亮麗但陰暗面黑暗的那一面孩子你們必須承受什麼我認為這個事情搞不好更實際也就是說相關的矯正課程在做行為處遇的階段我認為我們要更加與時俱進更靠近他們不要忘了他們在被放進哨角跟哨關之前他們可是每天拿著手機看短影片\n\n13:34.902 --> 13:37.279\n的小孩你突然讓他回到這個\n\n13:39.212 --> 14:05.642\n我們上一個時代在看的弟子規我覺得有嚴重的落差他們根本在裡面就是把眼睛閉起來把耳朵關起來這個要拜託部長所以我認為教化如果要把這麼多課程安排放進來我們的教化人力就要調整輔導人力就要調整可是現在現行我知道國教署有在協助你們但我認為人力是不夠的其實你們自己也非常清楚所以在這個而且這些小孩說實話如果他們在一般校園裡面他們會被放\n\n14:05.942 --> 14:23.222\n放在所谓二级跟三级的辅导回到学辅法的角度他是属于二级辅导跟三级辅导的对象而二级辅导跟三级辅导他急需要高度的专业去同理他支持他接纳他他才有可能跟我们大人站在一起说好我试试看\n\n14:23.742 --> 14:43.235\n我來改邪歸正我來努力看看而這個部分可能也是你們現在缺乏的人力我時間有限我是不是就先把問題提出到這裡拜託部長把相關的意見帶回去不管是少角校少關所我們在初級二級三級每一個階段我們都需要足夠多的專業人力來協助這些已經走上\n\n14:44.639 --> 15:01.657\n不好的路的孩子他們回過頭來他們想要回頭的時候我們大人接得住好不好拜託部長報告委員我曾經要求教育法務部對於經過這些少年處遇的少年犯結束了這個行為處遇之後他進到社會他的再犯率有多高\n\n15:02.372 --> 15:27.712\n研究一下跟原來我們這些矯正或是關乎的這個制度跟內容是不是相關是不是我們必須從這裡改善來讓他們回去社會之後降低他們的再犯率這個是值得我們研究的我今天只是要他們去做好謝謝院長所以我很謝謝你們收到我的訊息我對於孩子們的關心希望他們還來得及在成年之前回頭試案要拜託我們大人一起努力好嗎謝謝院長好謝謝陳培鈺委員資訊謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝\n\n15:35.595 --> 15:36.100\n現在在議場二樓旁聽來自\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.174,"end":27.072,"text":"接下來我們請陳培餘委員質詢羅志強委員請準備好 謝謝院長那有請卓院長 謝謝麻煩再請卓院長備詢陳委員好好 卓院長早安我想我就藉著這個剛黃珊珊委員提到的165來 第一張"},{"start":29.965,"end":47.296,"text":"這個是內政部警政署的165打詐儀表版我必須要說這個資訊其實對於非常多人想要認識詐騙真的很有幫助現在我的截圖上所顯現的數字是詐騙案件受理數也就是每一個當天有收到報案的電話"},{"start":48.036,"end":66.343,"text":"我说的是有收到报案然后呢当时我们组织了多少的金额其实相关的数字非常非常清楚我想我要鼓励这个部分因为刚刚院长您在做业务报告的时候也说在回答傅坤琦委员的时候您也说我们必须要持续给予现场的工作人员鼓励这件事情"},{"start":66.923,"end":90.326,"text":"因為詐騙的科技詐騙的心法說實話是日新月異而且從古至今不管是童話故事民間真實的生活其實壞人走的都比好人還要快我想這個現實是我們目前在做打詐業務最大的困境所以要拜託行政院繼續支持這個打詐儀表版的工作我認為這個非常重要下一張"},{"start":91.857,"end":110.404,"text":"我覺得這個也很棒最新詐騙案例然後有非常非常多的故事甚至還有語音播放這一次為了要做這個打詐專報的跟院長您的對話我自己很認真看了這個網站看了很多我覺得這件事情我們還有沒有機會透過數位影音化"},{"start":111.084,"end":129.721,"text":"因為說實話大家現在每天回到家滑手機可能沒有力氣看這麼多文字我不確定像這樣的文字內容或者是原來這麼多奇奇怪怪的詐騙案例我們可不可以怎麼樣讓更多國人看見跟更多國人知道我先跟部長分享一個案例院長對不起來下一張"},{"start":132.477,"end":139.788,"text":"這個是另一種注目這個是一個電視公司他們拍的專輯大概有30分鐘這裡面他們說記者住在這裡面48小時連續拍48個小時"},{"start":145.401,"end":162.439,"text":"他們記錄了165接線人員的辛勞跟他們所面對的困境我想我必須要幫他們拜託部長跟院長有沒有可能我自己發現從這個片子裡面後來也上網查了一些困境一個是他們其實在第一線每天平均要接超過1500通電話這個是有接進來的"},{"start":164.901,"end":190.773,"text":"然後呢這個電話當中他們不是只是告訴當事人說你真的被騙囉你真的被騙了他們還得去說服當事人說沒有啦他真的是騙你的我覺得我光是看那個螢光幕前的故事我都覺得心累這個30分鐘的紀錄片裡面呢他還拍到說長官還為了照顧他們的身心健康還有放了一些例如說夾娃娃機然後現場如何讓他們的工作狀態是舒適的可是說實話"},{"start":191.893,"end":215.302,"text":"在接到這麼多詐騙電話的過程當中我認為心累身體老累但我們有沒有機會再增加現場的服務量能這是第一個第二個我知道內政部其實長期有在關心遠景身心健康這個非常重要但我也很想跟部長您討論我認為165的這個第一線接電話這些同仁他們的身心健康所需要的服務可能跟第一線遠景"},{"start":216.542,"end":238.585,"text":"的狀態是不一樣的例如說這裡面好幾個工作人員講到的話我非常印象深刻其中有一個人說他騎摩托車回家下班的時候他都覺得他有幻聽一直聽到電話聲那我也可以想見如果我每天在那邊排班要8到10個小時電話一進來我就要立刻按平均一通電話可能20分鐘我要勸那個人甚至我要教那個人怎麼報案甚至樓上還有"},{"start":239.667,"end":253.783,"text":"負責比較高科技處理的人還要下來對現場接到那些狀況也就是說他們在現場接到的狀況是已經看得懂的詐騙還有看不懂的詐騙還有打電話進來的人的身心疲勞這件事情其實讓所有工作人員"},{"start":254.524,"end":275.831,"text":"非常非常辛苦 所以我想在針對相關議題進行討論實質政策 我們可以做什麼之前我可不可以拜託部長跟院長我們如何協助165這些現場的工作同仁可以有更好的身心健康支援謝謝委員的關心 我想我們165的第一線的同仁基本上是警政署的保醫總隊那我們現在已經增加到47人"},{"start":278.138,"end":298.287,"text":"這些分三班都非常的辛苦在工作那院長也多次到現場去慰問而且我們採取的是多國的語言包括我們要協助移工或是其他的外國人都包含在內所以我們現在要除了人力增強以外還要增加了就是有關技術面的部分比如說我們把圈存的通報電子化"},{"start":298.767,"end":322.459,"text":"从今年年初的时候已经开始了就是说把它改为由系统的线上作业不需要再用纸本的传真那另外一个呢就是接通率的目前为止已经提升到86.6%那再来就是我们要建置一个新的系统这个新的系统就是刚刚院长有跟各位报告的就是我们想要导入这个AI的人工智慧的技术那重建原有165的系统功能"},{"start":323.459,"end":348.591,"text":"這個就是為了服務165的近線電話裡面能夠馬上得到警政署的協助另外一個也非常謝謝陳委員的關心有關在第一線處理反詐或者是說接聽電話的同仁他們的身心健康我想我們本來就有關注到這一點我們會來持續加強如果有必要的話我們還是會請專業的心理諮商師來介入希望他們能夠保持在職場上面一個健康的狀態"},{"start":349.671,"end":377.269,"text":"對 因為我真的看了這個片子我重複看了兩遍我真的很心疼他們因為做案那邊真的壓力閃打而且可能打進來電話那個人錢其實已經匯款出去了因為現在有非常多詐騙其實是線上匯款不見得是尤其是剛剛院長有講到我們有第一線的銀行人員在阻詐這件事情確實已經受到成效可是其實更多的是數位科技甚至當我們好人端這邊在運用AI不要忘了壞人也在運用AI所以其實有90%是透過線上"},{"start":378.409,"end":392.995,"text":"這件事情所以真的要拜託部長跟院長我想就身心健康這件事情也好技術層面的也好或者是多國語言這些他們現場所增加的服務我們在後端給予他們更多的支持好不好謝謝部長跟謝謝院長那我們接下來看一下謝謝"},{"start":394.437,"end":418.454,"text":"下一張這個數據會說話其實剛剛兩位委員都提到相關數字我要先提醒大家如果我們看111跟112跟113其實數字是又上升又下來那一定這個數字背後代表一些趨勢那趨勢的原因到底是什麼我認為原因非常的複雜多元大概沒有辦法用單一的原因來看可是我要談的是這個是確實全世界的人民在面對的現實"},{"start":419.835,"end":438.292,"text":"如果願意關心國際新聞就知道其實美國這幾年從疫情開始非常多而且針對不同國家不同語言的詐騙也非常非常多那如果我們回到台灣我比較關心的是兒少的部分從詐騙來看兒少怎麼說呢在投影片的左手邊矯正學校的數字"},{"start":440.814,"end":468.593,"text":"29.3%都是跟詐騙有關右手邊是少關所所收容的學生也都跟詐騙有關數字最高也就是說不管是少角校或是部長請回不好意思不管是少角校或是少關所其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多那關於學生犯罪的部分我認為可以分幾個部分一個是事前預防第二個是行為的處遇第三是後續追蹤我們來看下一張"},{"start":470.606,"end":489.952,"text":"好這一張呢是我們看到少事法我們知道目前針對事前預防的部分我知道現在我們要增加少年前科三年內沒有在因為故意觸犯刑法或法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者這個門檻我知道我們要調整對不對部長"},{"start":490.757,"end":509.285,"text":"是 這個一定是要做三級的預防這41哨角效裡面的一些很非常重要的一個機制那我想這可以預防也可以在哨角現在可以要做好然後以後就出效的時候能夠跟社會作為現在再一個就學就會可以做一個比較好的一個處理"},{"start":509.625,"end":524.954,"text":"部長你覺得我們做這個修法真的有可以幫助少年詐欺犯罪的預防嗎怎麼說因為我認為詐欺這件事情它的背後因素真的非常非常多容我先往後說第一個我知道其實行政院在今年"},{"start":526.214,"end":551.694,"text":"新政院3月的時候核定了一筆經費是4年內我們要投入76億關於預防兒童及少年犯罪方案14到17年我覺得這件事情非常非常重要為什麼要從修法開始談起因為少年青少年現在儼然成為各式犯罪集團非常重要的工具人因為孩子有這個豁免的條款所以導致於這些黑道這些詐騙集團的大人"},{"start":552.194,"end":576.445,"text":"他們直覺想到可以利用青少年那我知道我們相關的規劃是希望可以從初級預防二級預防到後續孩子們回歸社會回歸家庭回歸社區的時候有一個好的路可以選擇可是我看到相關的困境是當孩子們在面對自己可能變成詐騙集團或是走進去之後發現好像真的有利可圖有甜頭"},{"start":577.205,"end":606.876,"text":"比起他去打工比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境他可能是因為家庭的需求家裡面沒有錢急需用錢或者是個人消費慾望的需求他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機新的球鞋對 部長不要懷疑新的球鞋可能五六千塊孩子們很想要或者是情感的需求例如說詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接觸小孩的情緒種種種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人"},{"start":607.441,"end":624.615,"text":"可以看得見可以接得住的所以我才會問說我們如何在未來14到1776億防止青少年犯罪這一塊我們加入一個這個部分我剛講的如何接住這些孩子原生社區原生家庭在學校的需求跟困境讓他們有"},{"start":625.476,"end":654.077,"text":"提早理解更多假設我真的加入了詐團假設我真的成為其中犯罪的一份子或是我被關進去之後我在掃腳效我在掃關鎖會發生什麼樣的事情我出來還會面對什麼樣的困境剛剛黃珊珊委員播的那個影片大家只有看見快樂的一面可是壞人都是這樣啊他騙你吃蘋果之前他跟你說蘋果很好吃可是他沒有告訴你你吃了毒蘋果你會發生什麼事情我認為我們要讓孩子及早知道這些事情雖然看起來是"},{"start":654.938,"end":681.017,"text":"有點像恐嚇但我們轉換一個語法轉換一個說法讓孩子知道你犯了錯你犯了罪我們不會因為你是少年就不告訴你可能會有的後果我想拜託法務部在後續114到117年這個四年防治計畫當中如何加入這個部分也就是在三級預防的前兩級初級預防跟二級預防我們提早加入這個觀念給小孩我想聽一下部長您的回應"},{"start":682.178,"end":701.947,"text":"謝謝 的確委員對這個問題很深入了解當然提到的宣導面已經讓小朋友讓學生 兒童 少年聽清楚這個絕對不能夠去吃毒蘋果這個是不要被詐團所利用當車手 當搜捕手甚至提供一些個資的我想這部分我們會全力來做一個"},{"start":703.117,"end":725.057,"text":"一個做一個宣導那我想這邊我們跟主管機關來做一個合作主管機關一定還有教育部教育部還有衛福部內政部勞動部還有法務部這幾個部會那以法務部來講的話我們重要是在少小校跟少關所那也是在學校的這一部分那因為在一個成長在少年這部分"},{"start":725.297,"end":744.257,"text":"我也清楚這個少女私人主流我們法務部是沒辦法去碰這個區塊的我知道 但是我們有更多初級預防跟二級預防嘛這個本來就是跨部會需要一起努力的好不好 我就提出我們的觀察跟問題因為確實少角校跟少關所這幾年也確實被詐騙的孩子們充滿了這個"},{"start":746.639,"end":769.982,"text":"所以你们其实也会很辛苦那我们来看到假设他们真的发生了这些行为然后被放进少教校跟少关所目前我们看到你们相关的辅导的内容我看到有弟子归影片生命重塑灵性生命我知道因为孩子们进来的时间或长或短你们可以发生影响力的时间也或长或短有非常多的变数但我要说我认为相关的课程真的必须要与时俱进"},{"start":770.462,"end":784.238,"text":"到底弟子規我知道我們上次去考察的時候你們跟我說弟子規的老師是有證照的老師但是部長我真心要說弟子規真的是我們這個世代的孩子他們聽得下去的嘛與其叫他們弟子規不如"},{"start":785.719,"end":814.181,"text":"黃珊珊委員剛剛那個影片更有效他們看完之後你們好好的告訴他們你在前面做了這個壞事看似光鮮亮麗但陰暗面黑暗的那一面孩子你們必須承受什麼我認為這個事情搞不好更實際也就是說相關的矯正課程在做行為處遇的階段我認為我們要更加與時俱進更靠近他們不要忘了他們在被放進哨角跟哨關之前他們可是每天拿著手機看短影片"},{"start":814.902,"end":817.279,"text":"的小孩你突然讓他回到這個"},{"start":819.212,"end":845.642,"text":"我們上一個時代在看的弟子規我覺得有嚴重的落差他們根本在裡面就是把眼睛閉起來把耳朵關起來這個要拜託部長所以我認為教化如果要把這麼多課程安排放進來我們的教化人力就要調整輔導人力就要調整可是現在現行我知道國教署有在協助你們但我認為人力是不夠的其實你們自己也非常清楚所以在這個而且這些小孩說實話如果他們在一般校園裡面他們會被放"},{"start":845.942,"end":863.222,"text":"放在所谓二级跟三级的辅导回到学辅法的角度他是属于二级辅导跟三级辅导的对象而二级辅导跟三级辅导他急需要高度的专业去同理他支持他接纳他他才有可能跟我们大人站在一起说好我试试看"},{"start":863.742,"end":883.235,"text":"我來改邪歸正我來努力看看而這個部分可能也是你們現在缺乏的人力我時間有限我是不是就先把問題提出到這裡拜託部長把相關的意見帶回去不管是少角校少關所我們在初級二級三級每一個階段我們都需要足夠多的專業人力來協助這些已經走上"},{"start":884.639,"end":901.657,"text":"不好的路的孩子他們回過頭來他們想要回頭的時候我們大人接得住好不好拜託部長報告委員我曾經要求教育法務部對於經過這些少年處遇的少年犯結束了這個行為處遇之後他進到社會他的再犯率有多高"},{"start":902.372,"end":927.712,"text":"研究一下跟原來我們這些矯正或是關乎的這個制度跟內容是不是相關是不是我們必須從這裡改善來讓他們回去社會之後降低他們的再犯率這個是值得我們研究的我今天只是要他們去做好 謝謝院長所以我很謝謝你們收到我的訊息我對於孩子們的關心希望他們還來得及在成年之前回頭試案要拜託我們大人一起努力 好嗎謝謝院長好 謝謝陳培鈺委員資訊謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢 謝謝"},{"start":935.595,"end":936.1,"text":"現在在議場二樓旁聽來自"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1830,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時54分）謝謝院長，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員培瑜：卓院長，早安。我想我就接著剛剛黃珊珊委員提到的「165」這個部分，請看這一張，這是內政部警政署的「165打詐儀錶板」，我必須要說，這個資訊其實對於非常多人想要認識詐騙是真的很有幫助，現在我的截圖上所顯現的數字是詐騙案件受理數，也就是每一個當天有收到報案的電話，我說的是有收到報案。然後當時我們阻止了多少的金額？其實相關的數字都非常非常清楚，我想我要鼓勵這個部分，因為剛剛院長在做業務報告的時候有提到，然後在回答傅崐萁委員的詢答時也有說，我們必須要持續給予現場工作人員鼓勵這件事情，因為詐騙的科技、詐騙的新法，說實話是日新月異。而且從古至今，不管是童話故事、民間真實的生活，其實壞人走得都比好人還要快，這個現實是我們目前在做打詐業務最大的困境。所以要拜託行政院，繼續支持這個打詐儀錶板的工作，我認為這個非常重要。","下一張，我覺得這個也很棒，就是最新的詐騙案例，然後有非常非常多的故事，甚至還有語音播放。這一次為了要做這個打詐專報跟院長您的對話，我自己很認真看了這個網站，看了很多，我覺得這件事情，我們還有沒有機會透過數位影音化？因為說實話，大家現在每天回到家滑手機，可能沒有力氣看這麼多文字。我不確定像這樣的文字內容，或者是原來這麼多奇奇怪怪的詐騙案例，我們可以怎麼樣讓更多國人看見，讓更多國人知道。","我先跟部長和院長分享一個案例，這個「另一種注目」是一個電視公司拍的專輯，大概有30分鐘。他們說這個記者在這裡面連續拍了48個小時，他們紀錄了165接線人員的辛勞跟他們所面對的困境。我想我必須要幫他們拜託部長跟院長，有沒有可能，我自己從這個片子裡面發現，後來也上網查了一些困境。一個是他們其實在第一線每天平均要接超過1,500通電話，這是有接進來的，然後在這個電話當中他們不只是告訴當事人說：「你真的被騙囉，你真的被騙了。」他們還得去說服當事人說：「沒有啦！他真的是騙你的。」我覺得我光是看那個螢光幕前的故事，我都覺得心累。這個30分鐘的紀錄片裡面還拍到，長官為了照顧他們的身心健康，還有放了一些例如夾娃娃機，然後現場如何讓他們的工作狀態是舒適的。可是說實話，在接到這麼多詐騙電話的過程當中，我認為他們不僅心累，身體也勞累，但我們有沒有機會再增加現場的服務量能？這是第一個。","第二個，我知道內政部其實長期有在關心員警的身心健康，這個非常重要。但我也很想跟部長您討論，我認為在165專線第一線接電話的這些同仁，他們的身心健康所需要的服務可能跟第一線員警的狀態是不一樣的。例如這裡面有好幾個工作人員講的話令我非常印象深刻，其中有一個人說，他下班騎摩托車回家的時候都覺得自己有幻聽，一直聽到電話聲。我也可以想見，如果我每天在那邊排班要8到10個小時，電話一進來我就要立刻按，平均一通電話可能20分鐘，我要勸那個人，甚至我要教那個人怎麼報案，甚至樓上還有負責比較高科技處理的人還要下來應對現場接到的那些狀況。也就是說，他們在現場接到的狀況是已經看得懂的詐騙，還有看不懂的詐騙，還有打電話進來的人的身心疲勞這件事情，其實讓所有的工作人員非常非常辛苦。所以我想，在針對相關議題進行討論實質政策我們可以做什麼之前，我可不可以拜託部長跟院長，我們如何協助165這些現場的工作同仁，可以有更好的身心健康支援？"],["劉部長世芳：謝謝委員的關心。我想我們165第一線的同仁基本上是警政署的保一總隊，我們現在已經增加到47人，這些人員分三班都非常辛苦的在工作。院長也多次到現場去慰問。而且我們採取的是多國語言，包括我們要協助移工或是其他的外國人也都包含在內。我們現在除了人力要增強以外，還要增加有關技術面的部分。譬如說，我們把圈存的通報電子化，從今年年初的時候已經開始了，就是說把它改為由系統的線上作業，不需要再用紙本的傳真。","另外一個就是接通率，目前為止已經提升到86.6%。再來就是我們要建置一個新的系統，這個新的系統就是剛剛院長有跟各位委員報告的，就是我們想要導入AI人工智慧的技術，重建原有165的系統功能，這個就是為了服務這些165的進線電話裡面，能夠馬上得到警政署的協助。","另外一個也非常謝謝陳委員的關心，有關在第一線處理反詐或是接聽電話同仁的身心健康。我們本來就有關注到這一點，我們會來持續加強，如果有必要的話，我們還會請專業的心理諮商師來介入，希望他們能夠在職場上保持一個健康的狀態。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，因為我真的看了這個片子，我重複看了兩遍，我真的很心疼他們。因為坐在那邊真的壓力山大，而且可能打電話進來的那個人的錢其實已經匯款出去了，因為現在有非常多詐騙其實是線上匯款，尤其是剛剛院長有講到，我們有第一線的銀行人員在阻詐，確實已經收到成效，可是其實更多的是數位科技，甚至當我們好人端這邊在運用AI，不要忘了壞人也在運用AI，所以其實有90%是透過線上，所以真的要拜託部長跟院長，我想就身心健康這件事情也好，技術層面也好，或者是多國語言，這些他們現場所增加的服務，我們在後端給予他們更多的支持好不好？"],["劉部長世芳：是，謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝部長、謝謝院長。我們接下來看下一張，這個數據會說話，其實剛剛兩位委員都提到相關數字，我要先提醒大家，如果我們看111年跟112年跟113年，其實數字是又上升又下來，這個數字背後一定代表一些趨勢，那趨勢的原因到底是什麼？我認為原因非常的複雜、多元，大概沒有辦法用單一的原因來看，可是我要談的是，這確實是全世界的人民在面對的現實，如果願意關心國際新聞就知道，其實美國這幾年從疫情開始就非常多，而且針對不同國家、不同語言的詐騙也非常非常多，如果我們回到臺灣，我比較關心的是兒少的部分，從詐騙來看兒少，怎麼說呢？請看投影片左手邊矯正學校的數字，有29.3%都是跟詐騙有關，右手邊是少觀所所收容的學生，數字最高的也都跟詐騙有關，也就是說，不管是少矯校或是……部長請回，不好意思。不管是少矯校或是少觀所，其實都是跟詐騙有關的學生收容最多。關於學生犯罪的部分，我認為可以分幾個部分，一個是事前預防，第二個是行為的處遇，第三是後續追蹤。","我們來看下一張，這一張是我們看到少事法的修法，目前針對事前預防的部分，我知道現在我們要增加少年前科三年內沒有再因為故意觸犯刑罰法律而受保護處分或刑之宣告者，這個門檻我知道我們要調整，對不對？部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，這個一定是要做三級的預防，這是屬於少矯校裡面非常重要的一個機制，我想這可以預防，也可以在少年矯正學校做好，以後出校的時候能夠跟社會做銜接，再就學、就業，可以做一個比較好的處理，避免再犯。"],["陳委員培瑜：部長，你覺得我們做了這個修法，真的可以幫助少年詐欺犯罪的預防嗎？怎麼說？因為我認為詐欺這件事情的背後因素真的非常非常多，容我先往後說，第一個，我知道行政院在今年3月的時候核定了一筆經費，是四年內我們要投入76億，關於預防兒童及少年犯罪方案（114到117年），我覺得這件事情非常非常重要，為什麼要從修法開始談起？因為少年、青少年現在儼然成為各式犯罪集團非常重要的工具人，因為孩子有這個豁免的條款，所以導致於這些黑道、這些詐騙集團的大人，他們直覺想到可以利用青少年。我知道我們相關的規劃是希望可以從初級預防、二級預防到後續孩子們回歸社會、回歸家庭、回歸社區的時候，有一個好的路可以選擇，可是我看到相關的困境是，當孩子們在面對自己可能變成詐騙集團，或是走進去之後發現好像真的有利可圖、有甜頭，比起他去打工、比起他做正常的工作好像容易得多，我認為我看見的是孩子們生活的困境，他可能是因為家庭的需求，家裡面沒有錢、急需用錢，或者是個人消費慾望的需求，他可能很羨慕同學有新的手機、新的球鞋。部長不要懷疑，新的球鞋可能五、六千塊，孩子們很想要，或者是情感的需求，例如說，詐騙集團這些大人真的很會接住小孩的情緒，種種的困難其實都不是我們處在光明面的大人可以看得見、可以接得住的，所以我才會問說，我們如何在未來114年到117年的76億防止青少年犯罪這一塊，我們加入一個這個部分，就是我剛剛講的，如何接住這些孩子原生社區、原生家庭、在學校的需求跟困境，讓他們提早理解更多，假設我真的加入詐團，假設我真的成為其中犯罪的一分子，或是我被關進去之後，我在少矯校、我在少觀所會發生什麼樣的事情，我出來還會面對什麼樣的困境？剛剛黃珊珊委員播的那個影片，大家只有看見快樂的一面，可是壞人都是這樣啊！他騙你吃蘋果之前，他跟你說蘋果很好吃，可是他沒有告訴你，你吃了毒蘋果你會發生什麼事情，我認為我們要讓孩子及早知道這些事情，雖然看起來有點像恐嚇，但我們轉換一個語法、轉換一個說法，讓孩子知道他犯了錯、犯了罪，我們不會因為他是少年就不告訴他可能會有的後果。我想拜託法務部在後續114到117年這個4年防制計畫當中如何加入這個部分，也就是在三級預防的前兩級──初級預防跟二級預防，我們提早加入這個觀念給小孩，我想聽一下部長您的回應。"],["鄭部長銘謙：謝謝。委員對這個問題很深入了解，當然提到宣導面，一定要讓小朋友、讓學生、兒童、少年清楚知道絕對不能夠去吃毒蘋果，不要被詐團所利用當車手、當收簿手，甚至提供一些個資，我想這部分我們會全力宣導，我們也會跟主管機關合作。"],["陳委員培瑜：主管機關一定還有教育部對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：教育部，還有衛福部、內政部、勞動部，當然還有法務部，這幾個部會，以法務部來講，重要是在少矯校跟少觀所，以及學校這部分。"],["陳委員培瑜：是。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為懲詐少年這部分，委員也清楚對於少年事件處理法，我們法務部是沒辦法碰這個區塊的。"],["陳委員培瑜：我知道、我知道，但是我們有更多初級預防跟二級預防。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。"],["陳委員培瑜：這個本來就是需要跨部會一起努力的，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：好。"],["陳委員培瑜：我就提出我們的觀察跟問題，因為少矯校跟少觀所這幾年也確實被詐騙的孩子們充滿了。"],["鄭部長銘謙：的確是詐欺的最多。"],["陳委員培瑜：都是詐欺的部分，所以你們也會很辛苦。我們來看，假設他們真的發生了這些行為，然後被放進少矯校跟少觀所，目前我們看到你們相關的輔導內容，我看到有弟子規影片、生命重塑、靈性生命，我知道因為孩子們進來的時間或長或短，你們可以發生影響力的時間也或長或短，有非常多的變數，但我要說，我認為相關的課程真的必須要與時俱進，到底弟子規……我知道我們上次去考察的時候，你們跟我說弟子規的老師是有證照的老師，但是，部長，我真心要說，弟子規真的是我們這個世代的孩子他們聽得下去的嗎？與其教他們弟子規，搞不好我們黃珊珊委員剛剛那個影片更有效，他們看完之後，你們好好地告訴他們，在前面做了這個壞事看似光鮮亮麗，但陰暗面、黑暗的那一面，孩子們必須承受什麼！我認為這個事情搞不好更實際。也就是說，相關的矯正課程在做行為處遇的階段，我認為我們要更加與時俱進、更靠近他們，不要忘了他們在被放進少矯校跟少觀所之前，他們可是每天拿著手機看短影片的小孩，你突然讓他回到我們上一個時代在看的弟子規，我覺得有嚴重的落差，他們根本在裡面就是把眼睛閉起來、把耳朵關起來，這個要拜託部長。","所以我認為，如果要把這麼多課程安排放進來，我們的教化人力就要調整、輔導人力就要調整，可是現行我知道國教署有在協助你們，但我認為人力是不夠的，其實你們自己也非常清楚。而且說實話，這些小孩如果在一般校園裡面，他們會被放在所謂二級跟三級的輔導，回到學輔法的角度，他們是屬於二級輔導跟三級輔導的對象，而二級輔導跟三級輔導是極需要高度的專業去同理他、支持他、接納他，他才有可能跟我們大人站在一起說：好，我試試看！我來改邪歸正！我來努力看看！而這個部分可能也是你們現在缺乏的人力。我時間有限，我是不是就先把問題提出到這裡，拜託部長把相關的意見帶回去，不管是少矯校、少觀所，我們在初級、二級、三級，每一個階段我們都需要足夠多的專業人力來協助這些已經走上不好的路的孩子，他們回過頭來，他們想要回頭的時候，我們大人接得住，好不好？拜託部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：好，這部分我們回去……"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我曾經要求法務部，對於經過這些少年處遇的少年犯，結束處遇之後進到社會，他的再犯率有多高？研究一下跟原來這些矯正或是觀護制度、內容是不是相關，是不是我們必須從這裡改善，讓他們回去社會之後降低他們再犯率？這個是值得我們研究的，我曾經指示他們去做。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝院長。所以我很謝謝你們收到我的訊息，我對於孩子們的關心，希望他們還來得及在成年之前回頭是岸，要拜託我們大人一起努力，好嗎？謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳培瑜委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽來自屏東縣旅居臺北的鄉親團，各位好朋友，我們掌聲熱烈歡迎。謝謝。","接下來請羅智強委員質詢，劉書彬委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":49,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-15"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147101_00001"}}}