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00:00:25,517\n選舉的黃建豪委員從早上陪專案報告到現在再次致謝那接下來張志倫委員結束質詢之後我們進行午休現在請張志倫委員請質詢好謝謝韓院長各位委員各位官員大家午安大家辛苦了有請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:36,243 --> 00:00:37,072\n三位好好\n\n3\n00:00:37,935 --> 00:01:04,876\n卓院長好辛苦了我是今天早上最後一位質詢今天要請教院長的事有關於我們打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效首先還是要跟院長拜託因為大家知道現在全台灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常會遭到家破人亡或者是被詐騙了以後\n\n4\n00:01:06,557 --> 00:01:31,309\n這個心神不寧寢食難安或是甚至有這樣子後遺症就是被恐懼下的後遺症所造成的影響所以這邊還是要拜託院長大家一起來努力讓打詐更有成效讓詐騙的金額逐漸減少那今天我提供一些資料給院長跟院長報告從111年的7月核定了打詐綱領以後到了112年提到\n\n5\n00:01:33,712 --> 00:01:43,941\n我們有了打炸綱領1.5以及到這次的2.0版本我們看到我們的預算我們行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到現在112跟113年的\n\n6\n00:01:52,558 --> 00:02:09,698\n15億以及到現在114年到115年我們整個的經費已經高達了33億所以基本上我們是有給希望是有給行政院足夠的打炸的經費那已經從上一次的1.5到2.0已經增加了兩倍的經費\n\n7\n00:02:10,799 --> 00:02:36,990\n可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高可是民眾被詐騙的金額也越高我們看到就是你們這次今天專案報告的資料也顯示從去年113年的8月到114年的7月其實也剛好滿週年警方共受理了19萬8千多件的詐欺案民眾的財損已經達到了一千\n\n8\n00:02:40,174 --> 00:02:47,888\n194億左右的這樣的金額等於國人一年的被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億所以本席要這邊跟\n\n9\n00:02:49,523 --> 00:03:09,282\n院長報告其實這個金額是有意義的代表現在詐騙的展值已經數字上實際數字上已經超過千億所以變成這樣的金額我們一定要好好來努力來把它給下降那人民對於政府打詐的民調來顯示我相信普遍的人民也是認為這個詐騙的越來越嚴重\n\n10\n00:03:11,724 --> 00:03:32,361\n而且問題有逐漸的惡化所以我要來請教也要跟院長報告本席認為打詐應該有六個字應該要來做才能有效的來降低詐騙就是應該要嚴查嚴辦以及重罰院長您支持我這樣的說法嗎\n\n11\n00:03:34,778 --> 00:03:41,873\n我覺得對於這個猖獗的犯罪的行為公權力一定要張揚出來才能夠保障人民的安全所以\n\n12\n00:03:43,124 --> 00:04:09,733\n嚴查嚴辦這當然是要的重罰的部分我們要經過修法來讓他的整個罰則跟他所受到的傷害以及財產的損失要成相當的比例好謝謝謝謝院長可是首先我要先跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料審計部裡面有提到似乎法官在過去的量刑有過輕導致車手繳回不罰所得後就輕輕放下\n\n13\n00:04:10,313 --> 00:04:30,551\n根據審計部的報告我不知道院長有沒有看過從108年到113年截至到113年8月底法院依照刑法第339條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在3年以下處3年以上的刑期只有1%所以\n\n14\n00:04:33,733 --> 00:04:54,378\n這樣子我覺得會讓人民尤其省紀部這邊也特別提到說會不會有認為法院侵犯的一個狀況其實就我跟很多在民間一起努力在打詐的一些好朋友來他們所反映給我的他們說基本上很多詐騙的人他們詐騙完以後\n\n15\n00:04:55,765 --> 00:05:19,763\n他們不是判的是三年以上他們判三年以上不到1%他們很多都是判六個月以下然後都在服勞動服務他們怎麼做勞動服務他們就是在法院外面在掃地所以我這邊是不是可以請院長可以幫我做一個統計資料到底詐騙的人他們所過去\n\n16\n00:05:20,323 --> 00:05:44,822\n所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判或甚至有些都是判六個月以下都是在做勞動服務的這個資料是不是可以提供本席來做參考據統計出來的數字跟太陽確實是如此所以我們經過層層的修法包括打炸釋法我們也希望做第一個加重它的罰則那未來我們覺得還不足我們還要啟動新的修法程序請部長答覆\n\n17\n00:05:47,045 --> 00:06:00,080\n簡單說明做一個補充那的確那個是不是判得太輕剛才委員有提到說大部分都判六個月以下在法院外面在掃地做勞動分務其實這個要跟委員報告事實上那個\n\n18\n00:06:00,780 --> 00:06:17,771\n因為絕大部分的那個網路電信詐欺的絕大部分案件都是車手跟尤其是人頭的一個提供人頭賬戶當然這個刑度是低但是我們要處罰就是詐團那部分那現在我們有做一個這個的確是有要回應的話其實我們有一個\n\n19\n00:06:18,311 --> 00:06:45,882\n要求我們依照詐偽條第50條來做一個要求檢查機關具體求刑那抬高檢署他也有提供一個具體求刑的一個標準你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑刑法嗎剛剛其他委員有提出來的對不對這個就是我們有做現有的這樣處理那剛才院長有提到就是要修法因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強另外我們跟司法因為這就是法官判的\n\n20\n00:06:46,542 --> 00:07:08,500\n那所以我們跟司法院我們也就跟他做一個協調就是說我們提出我們的一個良心的一個標準給司法院做一個調整良心的一個參考所以審計部提出來報告認為說判刑有稍微過輕事實上應該是有這樣的情形希望說未來還是可以提供本席這樣的資料到底詐騙犯他們所判刑的大概\n\n21\n00:07:09,241 --> 00:07:37,635\n大多數的比例是判多久其實還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎第二個就是因為省紀部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低所以再犯比例是相當的高我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員跟我分享他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人都是同樣的人我請教院長跟部長你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比例有多高\n\n22\n00:07:38,651 --> 00:07:56,830\n這部分我們再做一個數據再一個我收到的資料我想說整個是辦案不立這個沒有我們現在辦案那個我收到的資料那個再犯比例其實超過八成那這個詳細的數字我要想請部長你好好來統計一下所以我希望說\n\n23\n00:07:58,650 --> 00:08:24,175\n剛剛我們有提到所以我說在量刑的部分一定要是不是有需要重罰所以我們的刑事案件這個妥適量刑罰這個部分我也希望說是不是可以盡速來提供立法的一個動作好這次我們再來提供另外其實跟我們做一個補充其實現在那個假釋緩刑的假釋那一部分我們就是在詐謀條例出犯我們就到刑期要執行三分之二才會假釋但是我們這三萬的話就不假釋了\n\n24\n00:08:26,820 --> 00:08:42,054\n好OK那我們進下一個我們看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片我們簡單快速看一下300萬是什麼意思就是這台有一個財損局到我口袋中的500萬他只幫你扣7213元我跟各位講為什麼因為錢花完了你這樣可能扣到又不多啊\n\n25\n00:08:54,770 --> 00:09:00,801\n像我們這種人如果你今天不和解不賠錢給受愛人的話假設就是賠那麼好過通常都會關到九成\n\n26\n00:09:08,766 --> 00:09:36,652\n好謝謝謝謝好謝謝院長跟部長那我相信你們剛剛已經看過這影片看過我多次了那我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣這裡面提到了很多的元素第一個是被害人的財損的金額是300萬那其實剛剛這裡面我覺得他這個影片是有設計過的就是低於這個嚴重財閥的500萬之內那到底被害者的損失金額多少錢這個\n\n27\n00:09:38,766 --> 00:09:49,829\n沒有一個準確的一個金額可是他裡面提到了幾個重點就是說他裡面的教學影片要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的金額給花掉花到\n\n28\n00:09:50,896 --> 00:10:18,866\n他最後能查到的金流只有七千兩百一十三萬這就認定是他的這個犯罪所得第二個重點他為了要尋求保釋所以他就是跟法官請求說那法官如果我把除了我自己的犯罪所得以外我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人是否就可以申請假釋或檢除其刑那我想要請教針對這樣子的重點部長跟院長你們要如何來回應這些詐騙\n\n29\n00:10:20,346 --> 00:10:40,043\n詐騙的車手已經在網路上宣傳教這些其他可能未來潛在的車手這樣的行為我覺得這是非常嚴重的一個問題我認為這個影片真的是很糟糕他那個車手詐騙金額就是剛才文友提到就是規避那個詐偽條例43條的高額詐欺的徒刑\n\n30\n00:10:40,643 --> 00:11:06,763\n那現在但是他如果說第三百萬還是回到刑法339條就是加重詐欺那是一年以上七年以下那這部分這個我們在位其實這個三百萬也是金額蠻高我們會就具體的修行那另外車手把錢花掉剩下7213這就剛才委員幾位委員有提到就是說刑事大法庭裡面提採證的說法就是個人的報酬說而不是整個被害人損害說\n\n31\n00:11:07,563 --> 00:11:34,583\n那這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案還有那個500萬的規避的等等那個我們另外再做修法的一個所以我還要請教另外那個和解什麼假釋那一陣子剛才有跟委員報告過了詐偽條例出犯你一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻不一定要給他假釋另外那個有累犯的話他委員關心有累犯這部分我們要達四分之三如果第三次犯的話我們就\n\n32\n00:11:35,504 --> 00:11:57,719\n就完全沒有假釋的機會了所以我們其實既然我們在審核這些兆頭的話我們還是說嚴加審核那這部分我想這個影片這個是一個教學影片就像部長講的一件事跟委員報告我們剛剛看到影片我跟部長在研究如果我們現在是我們已經可以將它落地的四大平台\n\n33\n00:11:58,579 --> 00:12:23,672\nMeta、IG、Google、YouTube乃至Trade我們都可以要求它可是剛剛看的是TikTok就是無法落地不讓我們管理所以這個平台絕對是有它的問題如果是其他平台我們馬上就可以有著力點可以出去了其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下大概車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少絕對不會像他們講的這麼低\n\n34\n00:12:24,973 --> 00:12:52,841\n其實有時候車手他嘴巴講的是這麼低未來他可能還會跟詐騙集團使用虛擬貨幣的方式來去交錢的這樣的問題所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等的也希望院長跟部長來加強一下再來我要講的特別實踐的關係我特別要講的就是有關於我們現在第一線很辛苦的不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分\n\n35\n00:12:53,641 --> 00:13:10,832\n其實或是在做監聽等等這樣的工作其實都非常的辛苦那其實現在其實內政部已經有提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等這樣的問題其實是可以讓我們第一線的執行人員在遇到這麼危險的這些狀態的時候\n\n36\n00:13:12,233 --> 00:13:39,033\n是有一個講仇的機制那我現在聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中那是不是應該要快速來趕快來通過讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員有一個更強力的這個獎勵方式讓他們來執勤是因為我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來那我也是看到這樣的內容我覺得讓他更精進所以我今天在早上報告的時候\n\n37\n00:13:39,713 --> 00:14:07,276\n我一直強調對這些第一線的工作夥伴給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵我想我的用意也在這裡那我們會加速我請內政部說明是委員我們除了法治化以外其實我們七月開始的時候呢已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則啦那按照比例現在大概是發給兩千到一萬元左右所以就要拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比這已經匯整各部會的意見目前正在審議中跟委員報告\n\n38\n00:14:08,432 --> 00:14:26,266\n最後我還是要拜託其實在詐騙體團他們有一個手法很單純他們都會設立一個群組像剛剛我們院長講的他們會設立一個群組不管是用LINEFB的群組他們會設立一個聊天群當車手被抓的時候他們就會把這個車手在這個聊天群裡面剔除掉\n\n39\n00:14:26,866 --> 00:14:56,386\n那所以很重要的一個機制就是我們是不是可以溯源到我們這些的平台業者都在國外很多在國外的業者他們願不願意提供給我們相關他們的聊天紀錄等等這些資料那我就我了解的是他們在取得的部分是有困難的請問是這樣嗎所以我要問院長跟部長的是我們跨國的合作的進度到底是如何以及我們相關的很多的我們跟這些平台業者我們到底拿不拿到這些他們的聊天紀錄等等這樣的資料是不是有遇到相關的一個\n\n40\n00:14:57,466 --> 00:15:14,694\n困難等等這些問題那我們有沒有一些明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平台業者來做一個很好的溝通是不是可以請部長院長來是鮑委員是這樣子我們在去年一整年當中還陸續到包括日本去尋求包括LINE或者是Meta這些他們\n\n41\n00:15:15,214 --> 00:15:39,551\n是不是有拿不到資料的問題做決策的人告訴我們說如果台灣要實施這個實名制要落地的時候他們能不能夠做到所以目前為止我們按照這樣子的程度跟數位部一起來努力慢慢再做到了希望用實名制的方式來落實這是第一點然後第二個就是有關那個網路廣告平台的部分也是一樣你必須要落實你沒有落實的話用很快的速度的話\n\n42\n00:15:53,956 --> 00:15:55,141\n好謝謝張志倫委員的質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n449\t25517\t選舉的黃建豪委員從早上陪專案報告到現在再次致謝那接下來張志倫委員結束質詢之後我們進行午休現在請張志倫委員請質詢好謝謝韓院長各位委員各位官員大家午安大家辛苦了有請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n36243\t37072\t三位好好\n37935\t64876\t卓院長好 辛苦了我是今天早上最後一位質詢今天要請教院長的事有關於我們打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效首先還是要跟院長拜託因為大家知道現在全台灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常會遭到家破人亡或者是被詐騙了以後\n66557\t91309\t這個心神不寧 寢食難安或是甚至有這樣子後遺症就是被恐懼下的後遺症所造成的影響所以這邊還是要拜託院長大家一起來努力讓打詐更有成效讓詐騙的金額逐漸減少那今天我提供一些資料給院長跟院長報告從111年的7月核定了打詐綱領以後到了112年提到\n93712\t103941\t我們有了打炸綱領1.5以及到這次的2.0版本我們看到我們的預算我們行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到現在112跟113年的\n112558\t129698\t15億以及到現在114年到115年我們整個的經費已經高達了33億所以基本上我們是有給希望是有給行政院足夠的打炸的經費那已經從上一次的1.5到2.0已經增加了兩倍的經費\n130799\t156990\t可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高可是民眾被詐騙的金額也越高我們看到就是你們這次今天專案報告的資料也顯示從去年113年的8月到114年的7月其實也剛好滿週年警方共受理了19萬8千多件的詐欺案民眾的財損已經達到了一千\n160174\t167888\t194億左右的這樣的金額等於國人一年的被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億所以本席要這邊跟\n169523\t189282\t院長報告其實這個金額是有意義的代表現在詐騙的展值已經數字上實際數字上已經超過千億所以變成這樣的金額我們一定要好好來努力來把它給下降那人民對於政府打詐的民調來顯示我相信普遍的人民也是認為這個詐騙的越來越嚴重\n191724\t212361\t而且問題有逐漸的惡化所以我要來請教也要跟院長報告本席認為打詐應該有六個字應該要來做才能有效的來降低詐騙就是應該要嚴查 嚴辦以及重罰院長您支持我這樣的說法嗎\n214778\t221873\t我覺得對於這個猖獗的犯罪的行為公權力一定要張揚出來才能夠保障人民的安全所以\n223124\t249733\t嚴查嚴辦這當然是要的重罰的部分我們要經過修法來讓他的整個罰則跟他所受到的傷害以及財產的損失要成相當的比例好謝謝謝謝院長可是首先我要先跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料審計部裡面有提到似乎法官在過去的量刑有過輕導致車手繳回不罰所得後就輕輕放下\n250313\t270551\t根據審計部的報告我不知道院長有沒有看過從108年到113年截至到113年8月底法院依照刑法第339條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在3年以下處3年以上的刑期只有1%所以\n273733\t294378\t這樣子我覺得會讓人民尤其省紀部這邊也特別提到說會不會有認為法院侵犯的一個狀況其實就我跟很多在民間一起努力在打詐的一些好朋友來他們所反映給我的他們說基本上很多詐騙的人他們詐騙完以後\n295765\t319763\t他們不是判的是三年以上他們判三年以上不到1%他們很多都是判六個月以下然後都在服勞動服務他們怎麼做勞動服務他們就是在法院外面在掃地所以我這邊是不是可以請院長可以幫我做一個統計資料到底詐騙的人他們所過去\n320323\t344822\t所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判或甚至有些都是判六個月以下都是在做勞動服務的這個資料是不是可以提供本席來做參考據統計出來的數字跟太陽確實是如此所以我們經過層層的修法包括打炸釋法我們也希望做第一個加重它的罰則那未來我們覺得還不足我們還要啟動新的修法程序請部長答覆\n347045\t360080\t簡單說明 做一個補充那的確那個是不是判得太輕剛才委員有提到說大部分都判六個月以下在法院外面在掃地做勞動分務其實這個要跟委員報告 事實上那個\n360780\t377771\t因為絕大部分的那個網路電信詐欺的絕大部分案件都是車手跟尤其是人頭的一個提供人頭賬戶當然這個刑度是低但是我們要處罰就是詐團那部分那現在我們有做一個這個的確是有要回應的話其實我們有一個\n378311\t405882\t要求我們依照詐偽條第50條來做一個要求檢查機關具體求刑那抬高檢署他也有提供一個具體求刑的一個標準你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑刑法嗎剛剛其他委員有提出來的對不對這個就是我們有做現有的這樣處理那剛才院長有提到就是要修法因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強另外我們跟司法因為這就是法官判的\n406542\t428500\t那所以我們跟司法院我們也就跟他做一個協調就是說我們提出我們的一個良心的一個標準給司法院做一個調整良心的一個參考所以審計部提出來報告認為說判刑有稍微過輕事實上應該是有這樣的情形希望說未來還是可以提供本席這樣的資料到底詐騙犯他們所判刑的大概\n429241\t457635\t大多數的比例是判多久其實還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎第二個就是因為省紀部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低所以再犯比例是相當的高我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員跟我分享他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人都是同樣的人我請教院長跟部長你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比例有多高\n458651\t476830\t這部分我們再做一個數據再一個我收到的資料我想說整個是辦案不立這個沒有我們現在辦案那個我收到的資料那個再犯比例其實超過八成那這個詳細的數字我要想請部長你好好來統計一下所以我希望說\n478650\t504175\t剛剛我們有提到所以我說在量刑的部分一定要是不是有需要重罰所以我們的刑事案件這個妥適量刑罰這個部分我也希望說是不是可以盡速來提供立法的一個動作好 這次我們再來提供另外其實跟我們做一個補充其實現在那個假釋緩刑的假釋那一部分我們就是在詐謀條例出犯我們就到刑期要執行三分之二才會假釋但是我們這三萬的話就不假釋了\n506820\t522054\t好 OK 那我們進下一個我們看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片我們簡單快速看一下300萬是什麼意思就是這台有一個財損局到我口袋中的500萬他只幫你扣7213元我跟各位講為什麼因為錢花完了你這樣可能扣到又不多啊\n534770\t540801\t像我們這種人如果你今天不和解不賠錢給受愛人的話假設就是賠那麼好過通常都會關到九成\n548766\t576652\t好謝謝謝謝好謝謝院長跟部長那我相信你們剛剛已經看過這影片看過我多次了那我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣這裡面提到了很多的元素第一個是被害人的財損的金額是300萬那其實剛剛這裡面我覺得他這個影片是有設計過的就是低於這個嚴重財閥的500萬之內那到底被害者的損失金額多少錢這個\n578766\t589829\t沒有一個準確的一個金額可是他裡面提到了幾個重點就是說他裡面的教學影片要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的金額給花掉花到\n590896\t618866\t他最後能查到的金流只有七千兩百一十三萬這就認定是他的這個犯罪所得第二個重點他為了要尋求保釋所以他就是跟法官請求說那法官如果我把除了我自己的犯罪所得以外我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人是否就可以申請假釋或檢除其刑那我想要請教針對這樣子的重點部長跟院長你們要如何來回應這些詐騙\n620346\t640043\t詐騙的車手已經在網路上宣傳教這些其他可能未來潛在的車手這樣的行為我覺得這是非常嚴重的一個問題我認為這個影片真的是很糟糕他那個車手詐騙金額就是剛才文友提到就是規避那個詐偽條例43條的高額詐欺的徒刑\n640643\t666763\t那現在但是他如果說第三百萬還是回到刑法339條就是加重詐欺那是一年以上七年以下那這部分這個我們在位其實這個三百萬也是金額蠻高我們會就具體的修行那另外車手把錢花掉剩下7213這就剛才委員幾位委員有提到就是說刑事大法庭裡面提採證的說法就是個人的報酬說而不是整個被害人損害說\n667563\t694583\t那這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案還有那個500萬的規避的等等那個我們另外再做修法的一個所以我還要請教另外那個和解什麼假釋那一陣子剛才有跟委員報告過了詐偽條例出犯你一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻不一定要給他假釋另外那個有累犯的話他委員關心有累犯這部分我們要達四分之三如果第三次犯的話我們就\n695504\t717719\t就完全沒有假釋的機會了所以我們其實既然我們在審核這些兆頭的話我們還是說嚴加審核那這部分我想這個影片這個是一個教學影片就像部長講的一件事跟委員報告我們剛剛看到影片我跟部長在研究如果我們現在是我們已經可以將它落地的四大平台\n718579\t743672\tMeta、IG、Google、YouTube乃至Trade我們都可以要求它可是剛剛看的是TikTok就是無法落地不讓我們管理所以這個平台絕對是有它的問題如果是其他平台我們馬上就可以有著力點可以出去了其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下大概車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少絕對不會像他們講的這麼低\n744973\t772841\t其實有時候車手他嘴巴講的是這麼低未來他可能還會跟詐騙集團使用虛擬貨幣的方式來去交錢的這樣的問題所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等的也希望院長跟部長來加強一下再來我要講的特別實踐的關係我特別要講的就是有關於我們現在第一線很辛苦的不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分\n773641\t790832\t其實或是在做監聽等等這樣的工作其實都非常的辛苦那其實現在其實內政部已經有提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等這樣的問題其實是可以讓我們第一線的執行人員在遇到這麼危險的這些狀態的時候\n792233\t819033\t是有一個講仇的機制那我現在聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中那是不是應該要快速來趕快來通過讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員有一個更強力的這個獎勵方式讓他們來執勤是 因為我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來那我也是看到這樣的內容我覺得讓他更精進所以我今天在早上報告的時候\n819713\t847276\t我一直強調對這些第一線的工作夥伴給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵我想我的用意也在這裡那我們會加速 我請內政部說明是 委員我們除了法治化以外其實我們七月開始的時候呢已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則啦那按照比例現在大概是發給兩千到一萬元左右所以就要拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比這已經匯整各部會的意見目前正在審議中 跟委員報告\n848432\t866266\t最後我還是要拜託其實在詐騙體團他們有一個手法很單純他們都會設立一個群組像剛剛我們院長講的他們會設立一個群組不管是用LINE FB的群組他們會設立一個聊天群當車手被抓的時候他們就會把這個車手在這個聊天群裡面剔除掉\n866866\t896386\t那所以很重要的一個機制就是我們是不是可以溯源到我們這些的平台業者都在國外很多在國外的業者他們願不願意提供給我們相關他們的聊天紀錄等等這些資料那我就我了解的是他們在取得的部分是有困難的請問是這樣嗎所以我要問院長跟部長的是我們跨國的合作的進度到底是如何以及我們相關的很多的我們跟這些平台業者我們到底拿不拿到這些他們的聊天紀錄等等這樣的資料是不是有遇到相關的一個\n897466\t914694\t困難等等這些問題那我們有沒有一些明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平台業者來做一個很好的溝通是不是可以請部長院長來是 鮑委員是這樣子我們在去年一整年當中還陸續到包括日本去尋求包括LINE或者是Meta這些他們\n915214\t939551\t是不是有拿不到資料的問題做決策的人告訴我們說如果台灣要實施這個實名制要落地的時候他們能不能夠做到所以目前為止我們按照這樣子的程度跟數位部一起來努力慢慢再做到了希望用實名制的方式來落實這是第一點然後第二個就是有關那個網路廣告平台的部分也是一樣你必須要落實你沒有落實的話用很快的速度的話\n953956\t955141\t好 謝謝張志倫委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢謝謝\n","txt":"選舉的黃建豪委員從早上陪專案報告到現在再次致謝那接下來張志倫委員結束質詢之後我們進行午休現在請張志倫委員請質詢好謝謝韓院長各位委員各位官員大家午安大家辛苦了有請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n三位好好\n卓院長好 辛苦了我是今天早上最後一位質詢今天要請教院長的事有關於我們打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效首先還是要跟院長拜託因為大家知道現在全台灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常會遭到家破人亡或者是被詐騙了以後\n這個心神不寧 寢食難安或是甚至有這樣子後遺症就是被恐懼下的後遺症所造成的影響所以這邊還是要拜託院長大家一起來努力讓打詐更有成效讓詐騙的金額逐漸減少那今天我提供一些資料給院長跟院長報告從111年的7月核定了打詐綱領以後到了112年提到\n我們有了打炸綱領1.5以及到這次的2.0版本我們看到我們的預算我們行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到現在112跟113年的\n15億以及到現在114年到115年我們整個的經費已經高達了33億所以基本上我們是有給希望是有給行政院足夠的打炸的經費那已經從上一次的1.5到2.0已經增加了兩倍的經費\n可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高可是民眾被詐騙的金額也越高我們看到就是你們這次今天專案報告的資料也顯示從去年113年的8月到114年的7月其實也剛好滿週年警方共受理了19萬8千多件的詐欺案民眾的財損已經達到了一千\n194億左右的這樣的金額等於國人一年的被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億所以本席要這邊跟\n院長報告其實這個金額是有意義的代表現在詐騙的展值已經數字上實際數字上已經超過千億所以變成這樣的金額我們一定要好好來努力來把它給下降那人民對於政府打詐的民調來顯示我相信普遍的人民也是認為這個詐騙的越來越嚴重\n而且問題有逐漸的惡化所以我要來請教也要跟院長報告本席認為打詐應該有六個字應該要來做才能有效的來降低詐騙就是應該要嚴查 嚴辦以及重罰院長您支持我這樣的說法嗎\n我覺得對於這個猖獗的犯罪的行為公權力一定要張揚出來才能夠保障人民的安全所以\n嚴查嚴辦這當然是要的重罰的部分我們要經過修法來讓他的整個罰則跟他所受到的傷害以及財產的損失要成相當的比例好謝謝謝謝院長可是首先我要先跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料審計部裡面有提到似乎法官在過去的量刑有過輕導致車手繳回不罰所得後就輕輕放下\n根據審計部的報告我不知道院長有沒有看過從108年到113年截至到113年8月底法院依照刑法第339條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在3年以下處3年以上的刑期只有1%所以\n這樣子我覺得會讓人民尤其省紀部這邊也特別提到說會不會有認為法院侵犯的一個狀況其實就我跟很多在民間一起努力在打詐的一些好朋友來他們所反映給我的他們說基本上很多詐騙的人他們詐騙完以後\n他們不是判的是三年以上他們判三年以上不到1%他們很多都是判六個月以下然後都在服勞動服務他們怎麼做勞動服務他們就是在法院外面在掃地所以我這邊是不是可以請院長可以幫我做一個統計資料到底詐騙的人他們所過去\n所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判或甚至有些都是判六個月以下都是在做勞動服務的這個資料是不是可以提供本席來做參考據統計出來的數字跟太陽確實是如此所以我們經過層層的修法包括打炸釋法我們也希望做第一個加重它的罰則那未來我們覺得還不足我們還要啟動新的修法程序請部長答覆\n簡單說明 做一個補充那的確那個是不是判得太輕剛才委員有提到說大部分都判六個月以下在法院外面在掃地做勞動分務其實這個要跟委員報告 事實上那個\n因為絕大部分的那個網路電信詐欺的絕大部分案件都是車手跟尤其是人頭的一個提供人頭賬戶當然這個刑度是低但是我們要處罰就是詐團那部分那現在我們有做一個這個的確是有要回應的話其實我們有一個\n要求我們依照詐偽條第50條來做一個要求檢查機關具體求刑那抬高檢署他也有提供一個具體求刑的一個標準你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑刑法嗎剛剛其他委員有提出來的對不對這個就是我們有做現有的這樣處理那剛才院長有提到就是要修法因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強另外我們跟司法因為這就是法官判的\n那所以我們跟司法院我們也就跟他做一個協調就是說我們提出我們的一個良心的一個標準給司法院做一個調整良心的一個參考所以審計部提出來報告認為說判刑有稍微過輕事實上應該是有這樣的情形希望說未來還是可以提供本席這樣的資料到底詐騙犯他們所判刑的大概\n大多數的比例是判多久其實還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎第二個就是因為省紀部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低所以再犯比例是相當的高我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員跟我分享他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人都是同樣的人我請教院長跟部長你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比例有多高\n這部分我們再做一個數據再一個我收到的資料我想說整個是辦案不立這個沒有我們現在辦案那個我收到的資料那個再犯比例其實超過八成那這個詳細的數字我要想請部長你好好來統計一下所以我希望說\n剛剛我們有提到所以我說在量刑的部分一定要是不是有需要重罰所以我們的刑事案件這個妥適量刑罰這個部分我也希望說是不是可以盡速來提供立法的一個動作好 這次我們再來提供另外其實跟我們做一個補充其實現在那個假釋緩刑的假釋那一部分我們就是在詐謀條例出犯我們就到刑期要執行三分之二才會假釋但是我們這三萬的話就不假釋了\n好 OK 那我們進下一個我們看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片我們簡單快速看一下300萬是什麼意思就是這台有一個財損局到我口袋中的500萬他只幫你扣7213元我跟各位講為什麼因為錢花完了你這樣可能扣到又不多啊\n像我們這種人如果你今天不和解不賠錢給受愛人的話假設就是賠那麼好過通常都會關到九成\n好謝謝謝謝好謝謝院長跟部長那我相信你們剛剛已經看過這影片看過我多次了那我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣這裡面提到了很多的元素第一個是被害人的財損的金額是300萬那其實剛剛這裡面我覺得他這個影片是有設計過的就是低於這個嚴重財閥的500萬之內那到底被害者的損失金額多少錢這個\n沒有一個準確的一個金額可是他裡面提到了幾個重點就是說他裡面的教學影片要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的金額給花掉花到\n他最後能查到的金流只有七千兩百一十三萬這就認定是他的這個犯罪所得第二個重點他為了要尋求保釋所以他就是跟法官請求說那法官如果我把除了我自己的犯罪所得以外我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人是否就可以申請假釋或檢除其刑那我想要請教針對這樣子的重點部長跟院長你們要如何來回應這些詐騙\n詐騙的車手已經在網路上宣傳教這些其他可能未來潛在的車手這樣的行為我覺得這是非常嚴重的一個問題我認為這個影片真的是很糟糕他那個車手詐騙金額就是剛才文友提到就是規避那個詐偽條例43條的高額詐欺的徒刑\n那現在但是他如果說第三百萬還是回到刑法339條就是加重詐欺那是一年以上七年以下那這部分這個我們在位其實這個三百萬也是金額蠻高我們會就具體的修行那另外車手把錢花掉剩下7213這就剛才委員幾位委員有提到就是說刑事大法庭裡面提採證的說法就是個人的報酬說而不是整個被害人損害說\n那這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案還有那個500萬的規避的等等那個我們另外再做修法的一個所以我還要請教另外那個和解什麼假釋那一陣子剛才有跟委員報告過了詐偽條例出犯你一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻不一定要給他假釋另外那個有累犯的話他委員關心有累犯這部分我們要達四分之三如果第三次犯的話我們就\n就完全沒有假釋的機會了所以我們其實既然我們在審核這些兆頭的話我們還是說嚴加審核那這部分我想這個影片這個是一個教學影片就像部長講的一件事跟委員報告我們剛剛看到影片我跟部長在研究如果我們現在是我們已經可以將它落地的四大平台\nMeta、IG、Google、YouTube乃至Trade我們都可以要求它可是剛剛看的是TikTok就是無法落地不讓我們管理所以這個平台絕對是有它的問題如果是其他平台我們馬上就可以有著力點可以出去了其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下大概車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少絕對不會像他們講的這麼低\n其實有時候車手他嘴巴講的是這麼低未來他可能還會跟詐騙集團使用虛擬貨幣的方式來去交錢的這樣的問題所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等的也希望院長跟部長來加強一下再來我要講的特別實踐的關係我特別要講的就是有關於我們現在第一線很辛苦的不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分\n其實或是在做監聽等等這樣的工作其實都非常的辛苦那其實現在其實內政部已經有提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等這樣的問題其實是可以讓我們第一線的執行人員在遇到這麼危險的這些狀態的時候\n是有一個講仇的機制那我現在聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中那是不是應該要快速來趕快來通過讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員有一個更強力的這個獎勵方式讓他們來執勤是 因為我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來那我也是看到這樣的內容我覺得讓他更精進所以我今天在早上報告的時候\n我一直強調對這些第一線的工作夥伴給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵我想我的用意也在這裡那我們會加速 我請內政部說明是 委員我們除了法治化以外其實我們七月開始的時候呢已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則啦那按照比例現在大概是發給兩千到一萬元左右所以就要拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比這已經匯整各部會的意見目前正在審議中 跟委員報告\n最後我還是要拜託其實在詐騙體團他們有一個手法很單純他們都會設立一個群組像剛剛我們院長講的他們會設立一個群組不管是用LINE FB的群組他們會設立一個聊天群當車手被抓的時候他們就會把這個車手在這個聊天群裡面剔除掉\n那所以很重要的一個機制就是我們是不是可以溯源到我們這些的平台業者都在國外很多在國外的業者他們願不願意提供給我們相關他們的聊天紀錄等等這些資料那我就我了解的是他們在取得的部分是有困難的請問是這樣嗎所以我要問院長跟部長的是我們跨國的合作的進度到底是如何以及我們相關的很多的我們跟這些平台業者我們到底拿不拿到這些他們的聊天紀錄等等這樣的資料是不是有遇到相關的一個\n困難等等這些問題那我們有沒有一些明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平台業者來做一個很好的溝通是不是可以請部長院長來是 鮑委員是這樣子我們在去年一整年當中還陸續到包括日本去尋求包括LINE或者是Meta這些他們\n是不是有拿不到資料的問題做決策的人告訴我們說如果台灣要實施這個實名制要落地的時候他們能不能夠做到所以目前為止我們按照這樣子的程度跟數位部一起來努力慢慢再做到了希望用實名制的方式來落實這是第一點然後第二個就是有關那個網路廣告平台的部分也是一樣你必須要落實你沒有落實的話用很快的速度的話\n好 謝謝張志倫委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.449 --> 00:25.517\n選舉的黃建豪委員從早上陪專案報告到現在再次致謝那接下來張志倫委員結束質詢之後我們進行午休現在請張志倫委員請質詢好謝謝韓院長各位委員各位官員大家午安大家辛苦了有請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:36.243 --> 00:37.072\n三位好好\n\n00:37.935 --> 01:04.876\n卓院長好辛苦了我是今天早上最後一位質詢今天要請教院長的事有關於我們打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效首先還是要跟院長拜託因為大家知道現在全台灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常會遭到家破人亡或者是被詐騙了以後\n\n01:06.557 --> 01:31.309\n這個心神不寧寢食難安或是甚至有這樣子後遺症就是被恐懼下的後遺症所造成的影響所以這邊還是要拜託院長大家一起來努力讓打詐更有成效讓詐騙的金額逐漸減少那今天我提供一些資料給院長跟院長報告從111年的7月核定了打詐綱領以後到了112年提到\n\n01:33.712 --> 01:43.941\n我們有了打炸綱領1.5以及到這次的2.0版本我們看到我們的預算我們行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到現在112跟113年的\n\n01:52.558 --> 02:09.698\n15億以及到現在114年到115年我們整個的經費已經高達了33億所以基本上我們是有給希望是有給行政院足夠的打炸的經費那已經從上一次的1.5到2.0已經增加了兩倍的經費\n\n02:10.799 --> 02:36.990\n可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高可是民眾被詐騙的金額也越高我們看到就是你們這次今天專案報告的資料也顯示從去年113年的8月到114年的7月其實也剛好滿週年警方共受理了19萬8千多件的詐欺案民眾的財損已經達到了一千\n\n02:40.174 --> 02:47.888\n194億左右的這樣的金額等於國人一年的被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億所以本席要這邊跟\n\n02:49.523 --> 03:09.282\n院長報告其實這個金額是有意義的代表現在詐騙的展值已經數字上實際數字上已經超過千億所以變成這樣的金額我們一定要好好來努力來把它給下降那人民對於政府打詐的民調來顯示我相信普遍的人民也是認為這個詐騙的越來越嚴重\n\n03:11.724 --> 03:32.361\n而且問題有逐漸的惡化所以我要來請教也要跟院長報告本席認為打詐應該有六個字應該要來做才能有效的來降低詐騙就是應該要嚴查嚴辦以及重罰院長您支持我這樣的說法嗎\n\n03:34.778 --> 03:41.873\n我覺得對於這個猖獗的犯罪的行為公權力一定要張揚出來才能夠保障人民的安全所以\n\n03:43.124 --> 04:09.733\n嚴查嚴辦這當然是要的重罰的部分我們要經過修法來讓他的整個罰則跟他所受到的傷害以及財產的損失要成相當的比例好謝謝謝謝院長可是首先我要先跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料審計部裡面有提到似乎法官在過去的量刑有過輕導致車手繳回不罰所得後就輕輕放下\n\n04:10.313 --> 04:30.551\n根據審計部的報告我不知道院長有沒有看過從108年到113年截至到113年8月底法院依照刑法第339條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在3年以下處3年以上的刑期只有1%所以\n\n04:33.733 --> 04:54.378\n這樣子我覺得會讓人民尤其省紀部這邊也特別提到說會不會有認為法院侵犯的一個狀況其實就我跟很多在民間一起努力在打詐的一些好朋友來他們所反映給我的他們說基本上很多詐騙的人他們詐騙完以後\n\n04:55.765 --> 05:19.763\n他們不是判的是三年以上他們判三年以上不到1%他們很多都是判六個月以下然後都在服勞動服務他們怎麼做勞動服務他們就是在法院外面在掃地所以我這邊是不是可以請院長可以幫我做一個統計資料到底詐騙的人他們所過去\n\n05:20.323 --> 05:44.822\n所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判或甚至有些都是判六個月以下都是在做勞動服務的這個資料是不是可以提供本席來做參考據統計出來的數字跟太陽確實是如此所以我們經過層層的修法包括打炸釋法我們也希望做第一個加重它的罰則那未來我們覺得還不足我們還要啟動新的修法程序請部長答覆\n\n05:47.045 --> 06:00.080\n簡單說明做一個補充那的確那個是不是判得太輕剛才委員有提到說大部分都判六個月以下在法院外面在掃地做勞動分務其實這個要跟委員報告事實上那個\n\n06:00.780 --> 06:17.771\n因為絕大部分的那個網路電信詐欺的絕大部分案件都是車手跟尤其是人頭的一個提供人頭賬戶當然這個刑度是低但是我們要處罰就是詐團那部分那現在我們有做一個這個的確是有要回應的話其實我們有一個\n\n06:18.311 --> 06:45.882\n要求我們依照詐偽條第50條來做一個要求檢查機關具體求刑那抬高檢署他也有提供一個具體求刑的一個標準你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑刑法嗎剛剛其他委員有提出來的對不對這個就是我們有做現有的這樣處理那剛才院長有提到就是要修法因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強另外我們跟司法因為這就是法官判的\n\n06:46.542 --> 07:08.500\n那所以我們跟司法院我們也就跟他做一個協調就是說我們提出我們的一個良心的一個標準給司法院做一個調整良心的一個參考所以審計部提出來報告認為說判刑有稍微過輕事實上應該是有這樣的情形希望說未來還是可以提供本席這樣的資料到底詐騙犯他們所判刑的大概\n\n07:09.241 --> 07:37.635\n大多數的比例是判多久其實還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎第二個就是因為省紀部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低所以再犯比例是相當的高我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員跟我分享他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人都是同樣的人我請教院長跟部長你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比例有多高\n\n07:38.651 --> 07:56.830\n這部分我們再做一個數據再一個我收到的資料我想說整個是辦案不立這個沒有我們現在辦案那個我收到的資料那個再犯比例其實超過八成那這個詳細的數字我要想請部長你好好來統計一下所以我希望說\n\n07:58.650 --> 08:24.175\n剛剛我們有提到所以我說在量刑的部分一定要是不是有需要重罰所以我們的刑事案件這個妥適量刑罰這個部分我也希望說是不是可以盡速來提供立法的一個動作好這次我們再來提供另外其實跟我們做一個補充其實現在那個假釋緩刑的假釋那一部分我們就是在詐謀條例出犯我們就到刑期要執行三分之二才會假釋但是我們這三萬的話就不假釋了\n\n08:26.820 --> 08:42.054\n好OK那我們進下一個我們看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片我們簡單快速看一下300萬是什麼意思就是這台有一個財損局到我口袋中的500萬他只幫你扣7213元我跟各位講為什麼因為錢花完了你這樣可能扣到又不多啊\n\n08:54.770 --> 09:00.801\n像我們這種人如果你今天不和解不賠錢給受愛人的話假設就是賠那麼好過通常都會關到九成\n\n09:08.766 --> 09:36.652\n好謝謝謝謝好謝謝院長跟部長那我相信你們剛剛已經看過這影片看過我多次了那我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣這裡面提到了很多的元素第一個是被害人的財損的金額是300萬那其實剛剛這裡面我覺得他這個影片是有設計過的就是低於這個嚴重財閥的500萬之內那到底被害者的損失金額多少錢這個\n\n09:38.766 --> 09:49.829\n沒有一個準確的一個金額可是他裡面提到了幾個重點就是說他裡面的教學影片要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的金額給花掉花到\n\n09:50.896 --> 10:18.866\n他最後能查到的金流只有七千兩百一十三萬這就認定是他的這個犯罪所得第二個重點他為了要尋求保釋所以他就是跟法官請求說那法官如果我把除了我自己的犯罪所得以外我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人是否就可以申請假釋或檢除其刑那我想要請教針對這樣子的重點部長跟院長你們要如何來回應這些詐騙\n\n10:20.346 --> 10:40.043\n詐騙的車手已經在網路上宣傳教這些其他可能未來潛在的車手這樣的行為我覺得這是非常嚴重的一個問題我認為這個影片真的是很糟糕他那個車手詐騙金額就是剛才文友提到就是規避那個詐偽條例43條的高額詐欺的徒刑\n\n10:40.643 --> 11:06.763\n那現在但是他如果說第三百萬還是回到刑法339條就是加重詐欺那是一年以上七年以下那這部分這個我們在位其實這個三百萬也是金額蠻高我們會就具體的修行那另外車手把錢花掉剩下7213這就剛才委員幾位委員有提到就是說刑事大法庭裡面提採證的說法就是個人的報酬說而不是整個被害人損害說\n\n11:07.563 --> 11:34.583\n那這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案還有那個500萬的規避的等等那個我們另外再做修法的一個所以我還要請教另外那個和解什麼假釋那一陣子剛才有跟委員報告過了詐偽條例出犯你一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻不一定要給他假釋另外那個有累犯的話他委員關心有累犯這部分我們要達四分之三如果第三次犯的話我們就\n\n11:35.504 --> 11:57.719\n就完全沒有假釋的機會了所以我們其實既然我們在審核這些兆頭的話我們還是說嚴加審核那這部分我想這個影片這個是一個教學影片就像部長講的一件事跟委員報告我們剛剛看到影片我跟部長在研究如果我們現在是我們已經可以將它落地的四大平台\n\n11:58.579 --> 12:23.672\nMeta、IG、Google、YouTube乃至Trade我們都可以要求它可是剛剛看的是TikTok就是無法落地不讓我們管理所以這個平台絕對是有它的問題如果是其他平台我們馬上就可以有著力點可以出去了其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下大概車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少絕對不會像他們講的這麼低\n\n12:24.973 --> 12:52.841\n其實有時候車手他嘴巴講的是這麼低未來他可能還會跟詐騙集團使用虛擬貨幣的方式來去交錢的這樣的問題所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等的也希望院長跟部長來加強一下再來我要講的特別實踐的關係我特別要講的就是有關於我們現在第一線很辛苦的不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分\n\n12:53.641 --> 13:10.832\n其實或是在做監聽等等這樣的工作其實都非常的辛苦那其實現在其實內政部已經有提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等這樣的問題其實是可以讓我們第一線的執行人員在遇到這麼危險的這些狀態的時候\n\n13:12.233 --> 13:39.033\n是有一個講仇的機制那我現在聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中那是不是應該要快速來趕快來通過讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員有一個更強力的這個獎勵方式讓他們來執勤是因為我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來那我也是看到這樣的內容我覺得讓他更精進所以我今天在早上報告的時候\n\n13:39.713 --> 14:07.276\n我一直強調對這些第一線的工作夥伴給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵我想我的用意也在這裡那我們會加速我請內政部說明是委員我們除了法治化以外其實我們七月開始的時候呢已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則啦那按照比例現在大概是發給兩千到一萬元左右所以就要拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比這已經匯整各部會的意見目前正在審議中跟委員報告\n\n14:08.432 --> 14:26.266\n最後我還是要拜託其實在詐騙體團他們有一個手法很單純他們都會設立一個群組像剛剛我們院長講的他們會設立一個群組不管是用LINEFB的群組他們會設立一個聊天群當車手被抓的時候他們就會把這個車手在這個聊天群裡面剔除掉\n\n14:26.866 --> 14:56.386\n那所以很重要的一個機制就是我們是不是可以溯源到我們這些的平台業者都在國外很多在國外的業者他們願不願意提供給我們相關他們的聊天紀錄等等這些資料那我就我了解的是他們在取得的部分是有困難的請問是這樣嗎所以我要問院長跟部長的是我們跨國的合作的進度到底是如何以及我們相關的很多的我們跟這些平台業者我們到底拿不拿到這些他們的聊天紀錄等等這樣的資料是不是有遇到相關的一個\n\n14:57.466 --> 15:14.694\n困難等等這些問題那我們有沒有一些明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平台業者來做一個很好的溝通是不是可以請部長院長來是鮑委員是這樣子我們在去年一整年當中還陸續到包括日本去尋求包括LINE或者是Meta這些他們\n\n15:15.214 --> 15:39.551\n是不是有拿不到資料的問題做決策的人告訴我們說如果台灣要實施這個實名制要落地的時候他們能不能夠做到所以目前為止我們按照這樣子的程度跟數位部一起來努力慢慢再做到了希望用實名制的方式來落實這是第一點然後第二個就是有關那個網路廣告平台的部分也是一樣你必須要落實你沒有落實的話用很快的速度的話\n\n15:53.956 --> 15:55.141\n好謝謝張志倫委員的質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長的備詢謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.449,"end":25.517,"text":"選舉的黃建豪委員從早上陪專案報告到現在再次致謝那接下來張志倫委員結束質詢之後我們進行午休現在請張志倫委員請質詢好謝謝韓院長各位委員各位官員大家午安大家辛苦了有請卓榮泰院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":36.243,"end":37.072,"text":"三位好好"},{"start":37.935,"end":64.876,"text":"卓院長好 辛苦了我是今天早上最後一位質詢今天要請教院長的事有關於我們打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效首先還是要跟院長拜託因為大家知道現在全台灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常會遭到家破人亡或者是被詐騙了以後"},{"start":66.557,"end":91.309,"text":"這個心神不寧 寢食難安或是甚至有這樣子後遺症就是被恐懼下的後遺症所造成的影響所以這邊還是要拜託院長大家一起來努力讓打詐更有成效讓詐騙的金額逐漸減少那今天我提供一些資料給院長跟院長報告從111年的7月核定了打詐綱領以後到了112年提到"},{"start":93.712,"end":103.941,"text":"我們有了打炸綱領1.5以及到這次的2.0版本我們看到我們的預算我們行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到現在112跟113年的"},{"start":112.558,"end":129.698,"text":"15億以及到現在114年到115年我們整個的經費已經高達了33億所以基本上我們是有給希望是有給行政院足夠的打炸的經費那已經從上一次的1.5到2.0已經增加了兩倍的經費"},{"start":130.799,"end":156.99,"text":"可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高可是民眾被詐騙的金額也越高我們看到就是你們這次今天專案報告的資料也顯示從去年113年的8月到114年的7月其實也剛好滿週年警方共受理了19萬8千多件的詐欺案民眾的財損已經達到了一千"},{"start":160.174,"end":167.888,"text":"194億左右的這樣的金額等於國人一年的被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億所以本席要這邊跟"},{"start":169.523,"end":189.282,"text":"院長報告其實這個金額是有意義的代表現在詐騙的展值已經數字上實際數字上已經超過千億所以變成這樣的金額我們一定要好好來努力來把它給下降那人民對於政府打詐的民調來顯示我相信普遍的人民也是認為這個詐騙的越來越嚴重"},{"start":191.724,"end":212.361,"text":"而且問題有逐漸的惡化所以我要來請教也要跟院長報告本席認為打詐應該有六個字應該要來做才能有效的來降低詐騙就是應該要嚴查 嚴辦以及重罰院長您支持我這樣的說法嗎"},{"start":214.778,"end":221.873,"text":"我覺得對於這個猖獗的犯罪的行為公權力一定要張揚出來才能夠保障人民的安全所以"},{"start":223.124,"end":249.733,"text":"嚴查嚴辦這當然是要的重罰的部分我們要經過修法來讓他的整個罰則跟他所受到的傷害以及財產的損失要成相當的比例好謝謝謝謝院長可是首先我要先跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料審計部裡面有提到似乎法官在過去的量刑有過輕導致車手繳回不罰所得後就輕輕放下"},{"start":250.313,"end":270.551,"text":"根據審計部的報告我不知道院長有沒有看過從108年到113年截至到113年8月底法院依照刑法第339條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在3年以下處3年以上的刑期只有1%所以"},{"start":273.733,"end":294.378,"text":"這樣子我覺得會讓人民尤其省紀部這邊也特別提到說會不會有認為法院侵犯的一個狀況其實就我跟很多在民間一起努力在打詐的一些好朋友來他們所反映給我的他們說基本上很多詐騙的人他們詐騙完以後"},{"start":295.765,"end":319.763,"text":"他們不是判的是三年以上他們判三年以上不到1%他們很多都是判六個月以下然後都在服勞動服務他們怎麼做勞動服務他們就是在法院外面在掃地所以我這邊是不是可以請院長可以幫我做一個統計資料到底詐騙的人他們所過去"},{"start":320.323,"end":344.822,"text":"所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判或甚至有些都是判六個月以下都是在做勞動服務的這個資料是不是可以提供本席來做參考據統計出來的數字跟太陽確實是如此所以我們經過層層的修法包括打炸釋法我們也希望做第一個加重它的罰則那未來我們覺得還不足我們還要啟動新的修法程序請部長答覆"},{"start":347.045,"end":360.08,"text":"簡單說明 做一個補充那的確那個是不是判得太輕剛才委員有提到說大部分都判六個月以下在法院外面在掃地做勞動分務其實這個要跟委員報告 事實上那個"},{"start":360.78,"end":377.771,"text":"因為絕大部分的那個網路電信詐欺的絕大部分案件都是車手跟尤其是人頭的一個提供人頭賬戶當然這個刑度是低但是我們要處罰就是詐團那部分那現在我們有做一個這個的確是有要回應的話其實我們有一個"},{"start":378.311,"end":405.882,"text":"要求我們依照詐偽條第50條來做一個要求檢查機關具體求刑那抬高檢署他也有提供一個具體求刑的一個標準你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑刑法嗎剛剛其他委員有提出來的對不對這個就是我們有做現有的這樣處理那剛才院長有提到就是要修法因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強另外我們跟司法因為這就是法官判的"},{"start":406.542,"end":428.5,"text":"那所以我們跟司法院我們也就跟他做一個協調就是說我們提出我們的一個良心的一個標準給司法院做一個調整良心的一個參考所以審計部提出來報告認為說判刑有稍微過輕事實上應該是有這樣的情形希望說未來還是可以提供本席這樣的資料到底詐騙犯他們所判刑的大概"},{"start":429.241,"end":457.635,"text":"大多數的比例是判多久其實還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎第二個就是因為省紀部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低所以再犯比例是相當的高我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員跟我分享他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人都是同樣的人我請教院長跟部長你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比例有多高"},{"start":458.651,"end":476.83,"text":"這部分我們再做一個數據再一個我收到的資料我想說整個是辦案不立這個沒有我們現在辦案那個我收到的資料那個再犯比例其實超過八成那這個詳細的數字我要想請部長你好好來統計一下所以我希望說"},{"start":478.65,"end":504.175,"text":"剛剛我們有提到所以我說在量刑的部分一定要是不是有需要重罰所以我們的刑事案件這個妥適量刑罰這個部分我也希望說是不是可以盡速來提供立法的一個動作好 這次我們再來提供另外其實跟我們做一個補充其實現在那個假釋緩刑的假釋那一部分我們就是在詐謀條例出犯我們就到刑期要執行三分之二才會假釋但是我們這三萬的話就不假釋了"},{"start":506.82,"end":522.054,"text":"好 OK 那我們進下一個我們看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片我們簡單快速看一下300萬是什麼意思就是這台有一個財損局到我口袋中的500萬他只幫你扣7213元我跟各位講為什麼因為錢花完了你這樣可能扣到又不多啊"},{"start":534.77,"end":540.801,"text":"像我們這種人如果你今天不和解不賠錢給受愛人的話假設就是賠那麼好過通常都會關到九成"},{"start":548.766,"end":576.652,"text":"好謝謝謝謝好謝謝院長跟部長那我相信你們剛剛已經看過這影片看過我多次了那我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣這裡面提到了很多的元素第一個是被害人的財損的金額是300萬那其實剛剛這裡面我覺得他這個影片是有設計過的就是低於這個嚴重財閥的500萬之內那到底被害者的損失金額多少錢這個"},{"start":578.766,"end":589.829,"text":"沒有一個準確的一個金額可是他裡面提到了幾個重點就是說他裡面的教學影片要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的金額給花掉花到"},{"start":590.896,"end":618.866,"text":"他最後能查到的金流只有七千兩百一十三萬這就認定是他的這個犯罪所得第二個重點他為了要尋求保釋所以他就是跟法官請求說那法官如果我把除了我自己的犯罪所得以外我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人是否就可以申請假釋或檢除其刑那我想要請教針對這樣子的重點部長跟院長你們要如何來回應這些詐騙"},{"start":620.346,"end":640.043,"text":"詐騙的車手已經在網路上宣傳教這些其他可能未來潛在的車手這樣的行為我覺得這是非常嚴重的一個問題我認為這個影片真的是很糟糕他那個車手詐騙金額就是剛才文友提到就是規避那個詐偽條例43條的高額詐欺的徒刑"},{"start":640.643,"end":666.763,"text":"那現在但是他如果說第三百萬還是回到刑法339條就是加重詐欺那是一年以上七年以下那這部分這個我們在位其實這個三百萬也是金額蠻高我們會就具體的修行那另外車手把錢花掉剩下7213這就剛才委員幾位委員有提到就是說刑事大法庭裡面提採證的說法就是個人的報酬說而不是整個被害人損害說"},{"start":667.563,"end":694.583,"text":"那這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案還有那個500萬的規避的等等那個我們另外再做修法的一個所以我還要請教另外那個和解什麼假釋那一陣子剛才有跟委員報告過了詐偽條例出犯你一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻不一定要給他假釋另外那個有累犯的話他委員關心有累犯這部分我們要達四分之三如果第三次犯的話我們就"},{"start":695.504,"end":717.719,"text":"就完全沒有假釋的機會了所以我們其實既然我們在審核這些兆頭的話我們還是說嚴加審核那這部分我想這個影片這個是一個教學影片就像部長講的一件事跟委員報告我們剛剛看到影片我跟部長在研究如果我們現在是我們已經可以將它落地的四大平台"},{"start":718.579,"end":743.672,"text":"Meta、IG、Google、YouTube乃至Trade我們都可以要求它可是剛剛看的是TikTok就是無法落地不讓我們管理所以這個平台絕對是有它的問題如果是其他平台我們馬上就可以有著力點可以出去了其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下大概車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少絕對不會像他們講的這麼低"},{"start":744.973,"end":772.841,"text":"其實有時候車手他嘴巴講的是這麼低未來他可能還會跟詐騙集團使用虛擬貨幣的方式來去交錢的這樣的問題所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等的也希望院長跟部長來加強一下再來我要講的特別實踐的關係我特別要講的就是有關於我們現在第一線很辛苦的不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分"},{"start":773.641,"end":790.832,"text":"其實或是在做監聽等等這樣的工作其實都非常的辛苦那其實現在其實內政部已經有提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等這樣的問題其實是可以讓我們第一線的執行人員在遇到這麼危險的這些狀態的時候"},{"start":792.233,"end":819.033,"text":"是有一個講仇的機制那我現在聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中那是不是應該要快速來趕快來通過讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員有一個更強力的這個獎勵方式讓他們來執勤是 因為我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來那我也是看到這樣的內容我覺得讓他更精進所以我今天在早上報告的時候"},{"start":819.713,"end":847.276,"text":"我一直強調對這些第一線的工作夥伴給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵我想我的用意也在這裡那我們會加速 我請內政部說明是 委員我們除了法治化以外其實我們七月開始的時候呢已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則啦那按照比例現在大概是發給兩千到一萬元左右所以就要拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比這已經匯整各部會的意見目前正在審議中 跟委員報告"},{"start":848.432,"end":866.266,"text":"最後我還是要拜託其實在詐騙體團他們有一個手法很單純他們都會設立一個群組像剛剛我們院長講的他們會設立一個群組不管是用LINE FB的群組他們會設立一個聊天群當車手被抓的時候他們就會把這個車手在這個聊天群裡面剔除掉"},{"start":866.866,"end":896.386,"text":"那所以很重要的一個機制就是我們是不是可以溯源到我們這些的平台業者都在國外很多在國外的業者他們願不願意提供給我們相關他們的聊天紀錄等等這些資料那我就我了解的是他們在取得的部分是有困難的請問是這樣嗎所以我要問院長跟部長的是我們跨國的合作的進度到底是如何以及我們相關的很多的我們跟這些平台業者我們到底拿不拿到這些他們的聊天紀錄等等這樣的資料是不是有遇到相關的一個"},{"start":897.466,"end":914.694,"text":"困難等等這些問題那我們有沒有一些明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平台業者來做一個很好的溝通是不是可以請部長院長來是 鮑委員是這樣子我們在去年一整年當中還陸續到包括日本去尋求包括LINE或者是Meta這些他們"},{"start":915.214,"end":939.551,"text":"是不是有拿不到資料的問題做決策的人告訴我們說如果台灣要實施這個實名制要落地的時候他們能不能夠做到所以目前為止我們按照這樣子的程度跟數位部一起來努力慢慢再做到了希望用實名制的方式來落實這是第一點然後第二個就是有關那個網路廣告平台的部分也是一樣你必須要落實你沒有落實的話用很快的速度的話"},{"start":953.956,"end":955.141,"text":"好 謝謝張志倫委員的質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長的備詢謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":2239,"blocks":[["張委員智倫：（12時41分）謝謝韓院長。各位委員、各位官員，大家午安，大家辛苦了！有請卓榮泰院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：張委員好。"],["張委員智倫：卓院長好，辛苦了！我是今天早上最後一位質詢的。今天要請教院長有關打詐行動綱領2.0的執行成效，首先還是要跟院長拜託，因為大家知道現在全臺灣詐騙案件的數量跟金額還是很高，每一個被詐騙的家庭跟受害者常常家破人亡，或者被詐騙了以後，心神不寧、寢食難安，甚至有後遺症，就是恐懼下產生後遺症造成影響，所以還是要拜託院長，大家一起來努力，讓打詐更有成效，讓詐騙金額逐漸減少。","今天我提供一些資料給院長，跟院長報告，從111年7月核定打詐綱領以後，到112年我們有了打詐綱領1.5，以及到這次的2.0版本，我們看到行政院的預算從112年的1.28億到112跟113年的15億，以及現在的114年到115年，整個經費已經高達33億。基本上，我們希望給行政院足夠的打詐經費，從上一次的1.5到2.0，已經增加了兩倍的經費。可是我們看到政府投入打詐的金額越高，民眾被詐騙的金額也越高，今天專案報告的資料也顯示，從去（113）年8月到114年7月，其實也剛好滿周年，警方共受理了十九萬八千多件詐欺案，民眾的財損已經達到了1,194億左右，等於國人一年被詐騙的金額已經超過了千億。","本席要在這邊跟院長報告，其實這個金額是有意義的，代表現在詐騙產值的實際數字已經超過千億，我們一定要好好努力把這樣的金額下降。據人民對於政府打詐的民調顯示，我相信人民普遍也認為詐騙越來越嚴重而且問題逐漸惡化，所以我要來請教，也要跟院長報告。本席認為打詐有六個字應該要做，才能有效降低詐騙，就是應該要「嚴查」、「嚴辦」以及「重罰」，院長支持我這樣的說法嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我覺得對於猖獗的犯罪行為，公權力一定要張揚出來，才能夠保障人民的安全，所以嚴查、嚴辦當然是要的。至於重罰的部分，我們要經過修法讓整個罰則、所受到的傷害以及財產損失要成相當的比例。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝院長。可是首先我要跟您報告有關於審計部所提出來的資料，審計部的報告裡面提到，法官過去的量刑似乎有過輕的狀況，導致車手繳回不法所得後就輕輕放下。根據審計部的報告，我不知道院長有沒有看過，從108年截至113年8月底，法院依照刑法第三百三十九條之四加重詐欺罪科處的刑期大多是在三年以下，科處三年以上刑期的只有1%，尤其審計部在這邊也特別提到這樣子會不會讓人民認為法院有輕判的狀況。就很多在民間一起努力打詐的好朋友所反映給我的，他們說基本上很多詐騙的人詐騙完以後，並不是被判三年以上，判三年以上的不到1%，他們很多都是判六個月以下，然後都在服勞動服務，他們怎麼做勞動服務呢？他們就是在法院外面掃地，所以我是不是可以請院長幫我做一份統計資料，看看詐騙的人過去所判的刑責到底是不是像審計部說的都是輕判，或甚至有些都是判六個月以下、都是在做勞動服務？這份資料是不是可以提供給本席參考？"],["卓院長榮泰：據統計出來的數字跟態樣確實是如此，所以我們經過層層的修法，包括打詐四法，我們也希望第一個加重它的罰則，未來我們覺得還不足，我們還要啟動新的修法程序，我請部長答復。"],["張委員智倫：請簡單說明，謝謝。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我來補充說明，關於是不是判得太輕，剛才委員有提到大部分都判六個月以下……"],["張委員智倫：對啊，在法院外面掃地做勞動服務嘛！"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要跟委員報告，事實上，因為絕大部分的網路電信詐欺案件都是透過車手及提供人頭帳戶，當然這個刑度是低，但是我們要處罰的是詐團那一部分。如果要回應的話，其實我們有一個要求，也就是依據詐危條例第五十條來要求檢察機關具體求刑，臺高檢署也有提供具體求刑的標準，另外……"],["張委員智倫：你說的是刑事案件妥適量刑法嗎？剛剛其他委員有提出來了對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個就是我們有做現有的處理，剛才院長有提到要修法，因為我們認為高額詐欺還要再加強。另外我們也有跟司法院協調，因為這就是法官判的，所以我們也跟司法院協調，就是由我們提出量刑標準供司法院做為調整量刑的參考。"],["張委員智倫：審計部提出來的報告認為判刑稍微過輕，事實上應該是有這樣的情形，希望未來還是可以提供給本席這樣的資料，到底詐騙犯所判刑的大多數比率是判多久，還是要提供這樣的資料可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：好，這個我們再提供。"],["張委員智倫：第二個，就是因為審計部提出這樣的資訊說判刑過低，所以再犯比率相當高，我問了很多基層在查詐欺的警員，他們跟我分享，他說每次抓到詐欺犯都是同一批人、都是同樣的人，我請教院長跟部長，你認為這些詐騙犯的再犯比率有多高？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們再做一個數據和資料……"],["張委員智倫：我收到的資料……"],["鄭部長銘謙：但是針對辦案不力的部分，這個沒有！我們現在辦案的部分也有詐團……"],["張委員智倫：再犯比率其實超過八成，詳細的數字我想請部長好好統計一下。剛剛我們有提到在量刑的部分是不是有需要重罰？所以我也希望刑事案件妥適量刑法是不是可以儘速立法？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們再來提供。另外做一個補充，其實現在針對假釋的部分，我們根據詐危條例，初犯刑期要執行三分之二才會假釋，沒有執行三分之二就不假釋了。"],["張委員智倫：OK，現在我們來看一個剛剛很多委員給院長看的影片，我們簡單快速看一下。","（播放影片）"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝院長跟部長。我相信你們應該看過這個影片很多次了，我的問題跟其他委員的問題可能不太一樣，這裡面提到了很多的元素：第一個是被害人的財損金額是300萬，其實我覺得這個影片是有設計過的，就是低於嚴重裁罰的500萬之內，到底被害者的損失金額是多少錢，這沒有一個準確的金額，可是這教學影片裡面提到了幾個重點，首先，它要求車手或是詐騙集團把詐騙的錢花掉，花到最後能查到的金額只有7,213塊，這就是被認定的犯罪所得。","第二個重點，為了要尋求保釋，所以他就跟法官請求說：如果把除了我自己的犯罪所得以外，我再多繳一點錢給這些被害人，是否就可以聲請假釋或減除其刑？我想要請教，針對這樣的重點，部長跟院長要如何來回應這些詐騙集團已經在網路上宣傳、教導這些未來可能、潛在的車手這樣的行為？我覺得這是一個非常嚴重的問題。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我認為這個影片真的很糟糕，裡面的車手詐騙金額就是剛才委員提到的，就是要規避詐危條例第四十三條高額詐欺的徒刑；現在如果是低於300萬還是會回到刑法第三百三十九條，就是加重詐欺，那是處一年以上七年以下有期徒刑；就詐危的部分，其實詐騙金額300萬也是滿高的，我們會就具體來求刑。","另外，車手把錢花掉剩下7,213塊的部分，剛才有幾位委員提到，刑事大法庭採用的說法，認為這是個人的報酬說，而不是整個被害人損害說，這部分我們有做一個修法的修正草案；還有，關於500萬的規避等等，這部分我們會另外做一個修法……"],["張委員智倫：所以我要請教……"],["鄭部長銘謙：另外什麼和解、假釋等等的，剛才有跟委員報告過了，依詐危條例，若是初犯，一定要到三分之二才有辦法合乎假釋的門檻，而且也不一定要給他假釋。再來，若有累犯的話，就是委員關心的，這部分則是要達到四分之三；如果第三次犯的話，就完全沒有假釋的機會了，所以其實是這樣的，我們在審核這些詐團……"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝部長……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們還是會嚴加審核，而這是一個教學影片……"],["張委員智倫：對，就像部長講的，我們希望……"],["卓院長榮泰：幾件事情跟委員報告，剛剛看到的那個影片，我也跟部長在研究，如果是現在我們已經可以將它落地的四大平臺，即Meta、IG、Google以及YouTube，乃至於Threads，我們都可以要求它，而剛剛看的是TikTok，就無法落地，不讓我們管理，所以這個平臺絕對有它的問題，如果是其他平臺，我們馬上就有著力點可以出去了。"],["張委員智倫：對，其實院長跟部長可以去坊間查問一下，車手所拿到的報酬大概是犯罪所得的百分之多少，絕對不會像他們講的這麼低，有時候車手嘴巴講的這麼低，但未來還是有可能跟詐騙集團以使用虛擬貨幣的方式來交錢，還有這樣的問題存在，所以我們才說還有很多相關的法令要來實施，比如說虛擬貨幣專法等等，也希望院長跟部長來加強一下。","時間的關係，我要特別講的是，現在第一線的人員很辛苦，不管是警察同仁在抓車手或抓詐騙集團的部分，或是後面在做監聽等等這樣的工作的人員都非常辛苦，現在內政部已經提出一個防制詐欺犯罪有功人員檢舉獎勵辦法等等，其實是可以讓我們第一線執勤人員在遇到危險狀態的時候，是有一個獎酬的機制，我聽說這個草案還在行政院核准當中，是不是應該要趕快來通過，讓我們基層的警察同仁或是在執勤的人員，有一個更強力的獎勵方式，讓他們來執勤？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我知道內政部有提出這樣一個草案出來，看到這樣的內容後，我覺得應讓它更精進，所以今天早上報告的時候我一直強調，對於這些第一線的工作夥伴應給予更多的感謝跟鼓勵，我想我的用意也在這裡，我們會加速，接著我請內政部說明。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝。"],["劉部長世芳：委員，我們除了法制化以外，其實我們從7月開始已經有這些獎勵金的核發原則，按照比例，現在大概是發給2,000到1萬元。"],["張委員智倫：好，拜託部長把這個草案的內容跟你現在實際有發放的金額做一個對比，讓我們知道這個草案……"],["卓院長榮泰：跟委員報告，這已經彙整各部會的意見，目前正在審議中。"],["張委員智倫：好。最後我還是要拜託，其實詐騙集團他們有一個很單純的手法，就像剛剛院長講的，他們會設立一個群組，不管是用LINE、FB的群組，他們會設立一個聊天群，當車手被抓的時候，他們就會把這個車手從這個聊天群裡面剔除掉。所以有一個很重要的機制，就是我們是不是可以溯源到這些平臺業者？有很多業者都是在國外，他們願不願意提供我們這些相關的聊天紀錄等資料？就我的了解，要向他們取得這些部分是有困難的，請問是這樣嗎？所以我要問院長跟部長，我們跨國合作的進度到底是如何？還有我們跟這些平臺業者到底拿不拿得到這些聊天紀錄等資料，是不是有遇到相關的困難等問題？我們有沒有一個明確的時間表讓我們可以跟這些平臺業者來做一個很好的溝通？部長、院長，是不是有拿不到資料的問題？"],["劉部長世芳：報告委員，我們在去年一整年當中陸續到日本去請LINE、Meta這些平臺能夠做決策的人告訴我們，如果臺灣要實施這個實名制，要落地的時候，他們能不能夠做到。到目前為止，我們按照這樣子的時程跟數位部一起來努力，有慢慢在做到了，希望用實名制的方式來落實，這是第一點。第二個，有關網路廣告平臺的部分也是一樣，你必須要落實，如果你沒有用很快的速度來落實的話，這些東西詐騙集團一下子就解決了，就沒辦法處理。"],["張委員智倫：你們有沒有一個時程表？"],["卓院長榮泰：已經在開始做了。"],["劉部長世芳：其實在剛剛的報告裡面就有了，我們再把詳細的資料送給委員參考。"],["卓院長榮泰：會更廣泛、更有效地來做，已經在做了。"],["張委員智倫：好，謝謝院長、部長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝張智倫委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，我們上午會議進行到此為止，下午2點30分繼續開會。再一次呼籲各黨團能夠敦促所有委員在下午儘量多多參與專案報告，也再一次謝謝臺中選區的黃健豪委員從早上一直陪到現在參與專案報告會議，非常感謝。","我們現在休息，下午2點半繼續開會，謝謝。","休息（12時57分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":49,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-15"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147101_00001"}}}