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0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 70.816, \"end\": 70.956, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 70.956, \"end\": 71.096, \"score\": 0.791}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 71.096, \"end\": 72.376, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 72.376, \"end\": 72.937, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 72.937, \"end\": 73.277, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"打\", \"start\": 73.277, \"end\": 73.717, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"擊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 73.717, \"end\": 74.617, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 74.617, \"end\": 75.737, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"綱\"}, {\"word\": \"領\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 75.737, \"end\": 76.018, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 76.018, \"end\": 76.298, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 76.298, \"end\": 77.238, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 77.238, \"end\": 77.558, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 77.558, \"end\": 77.738, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 77.738, \"end\": 77.858, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 77.858, \"end\": 78.098, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 78.098, \"end\": 78.278, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 78.278, \"end\": 78.478, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"8\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 78.478, \"end\": 78.658, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"開\"}, {\"word\": \"始\", \"start\": 78.658, \"end\": 78.678, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 80.879, \"end\": 102.649, \"text\": \"那麼說實在的根本都還沒滿一年如果我們用月來推算現在大概就是滿八個月而已其實現在在這個時間點所有防詐的各個相關部會坐在這裡是不是現在馬上就必須要來做檢討其實本席是存疑的因為坦白說立法院在這個時候他並不是會議的期間\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 80.879, \"end\": 81.479, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 81.479, \"end\": 81.739, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 81.739, \"end\": 82.22, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"根\", \"start\": 82.22, \"end\": 82.34, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 82.34, \"end\": 82.44, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 82.44, \"end\": 82.82, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 82.82, \"end\": 83.02, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"滿\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 83.02, \"end\": 83.16, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 83.16, \"end\": 83.84, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 83.84, \"end\": 84.12, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 84.12, \"end\": 84.261, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 84.261, \"end\": 84.441, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 84.441, \"end\": 84.761, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"月\", 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\"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 94.225, \"end\": 94.345, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 94.345, \"end\": 94.445, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 94.445, \"end\": 94.825, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 94.825, \"end\": 95.305, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"馬\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 95.305, \"end\": 95.866, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 95.866, \"end\": 96.006, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"必\", \"start\": 96.006, \"end\": 96.306, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"須\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 96.306, \"end\": 96.626, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 96.626, \"end\": 97.706, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"檢\"}, {\"word\": \"討\"}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 97.706, \"end\": 97.866, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 97.866, \"end\": 98.087, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 98.087, \"end\": 98.267, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 98.267, \"end\": 98.427, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"存\", \"start\": 98.427, \"end\": 98.647, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"疑\", \"start\": 98.647, \"end\": 98.887, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 98.887, \"end\": 99.527, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 99.527, \"end\": 99.767, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"坦\", \"start\": 99.767, \"end\": 99.927, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"白\", \"start\": 99.927, \"end\": 100.288, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 100.288, \"end\": 100.428, \"score\": 0.976}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 100.428, \"end\": 100.568, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 100.568, \"end\": 100.788, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 100.788, \"end\": 101.348, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 101.348, \"end\": 101.508, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 101.508, \"end\": 101.768, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 101.768, \"end\": 101.908, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 101.908, \"end\": 102.408, \"score\": 0.815}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"議\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 102.408, \"end\": 102.629, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"期\", \"start\": 102.629, \"end\": 102.649, \"score\": 0.52}, {\"word\": \"間\"}]}, {\"start\": 103.709, \"end\": 121.041, \"text\": \"但是因為民眾黨提案要研會民眾黨也提案說要來做這個報告那麼我們當然也就予以尊重但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場目前有一位啦那其他的民眾黨的委員呢有人早上黨首席還去車隊掃街了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 103.709, \"end\": 103.889, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 103.889, \"end\": 103.969, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 103.969, \"end\": 104.249, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 104.249, \"end\": 104.85, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 104.85, \"end\": 105.03, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 105.03, \"end\": 105.23, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 105.23, \"end\": 105.45, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"研\", \"start\": 105.45, \"end\": 106.211, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 106.211, \"end\": 106.871, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 106.871, \"end\": 107.091, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 107.091, \"end\": 107.251, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 107.251, \"end\": 107.672, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 107.672, \"end\": 107.992, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 107.992, \"end\": 108.652, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 108.652, \"end\": 109.193, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", 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\"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 112.755, \"end\": 112.995, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 112.995, \"end\": 113.316, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 113.316, \"end\": 113.856, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 113.856, \"end\": 114.316, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 114.316, \"end\": 114.436, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 114.436, \"end\": 115.117, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 115.117, \"end\": 115.777, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"場\"}, {\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 115.777, \"end\": 115.957, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 115.957, \"end\": 116.098, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 116.098, \"end\": 116.258, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 116.258, \"end\": 116.378, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 116.378, \"end\": 116.578, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 116.578, \"end\": 117.418, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 117.418, \"end\": 117.579, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 117.579, \"end\": 117.699, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 117.699, \"end\": 117.839, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 117.839, \"end\": 117.919, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 117.919, \"end\": 118.259, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 118.259, \"end\": 118.359, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 118.359, \"end\": 118.759, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 118.759, \"end\": 119.38, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 119.38, \"end\": 119.44, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 119.44, \"end\": 119.64, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 119.64, \"end\": 119.78, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 119.78, \"end\": 120.18, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"黨\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 120.18, \"end\": 120.4, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 120.4, \"end\": 120.861, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 120.861, \"end\": 121.001, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"車\"}, {\"word\": \"隊\"}, {\"word\": \"掃\"}, {\"word\": \"街\", \"start\": 121.001, \"end\": 121.021, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 121.021, \"end\": 121.041, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 122.742, \"end\": 148.033, \"text\": \"所以我認為我希望真正關心這個議題的就不要作秀真的好好的認真來關心這個題目那麼我們一起來解決民眾的問題首先開始之前本席先來念一個最新的報導上面提到的就是道高一尺 謀高一丈打詐2.0我們真的要加把勁根據行政院的官員說今年的詐騙期短有兩種改變了\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 122.742, \"end\": 122.902, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 122.902, \"end\": 123.002, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 123.002, \"end\": 123.783, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"認\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 123.783, \"end\": 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839.77, \"end\": 839.95, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 839.95, \"end\": 840.11, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 840.11, \"end\": 840.651, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"甚\", \"start\": 840.651, \"end\": 840.891, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"至\", \"start\": 840.891, \"end\": 841.011, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 841.011, \"end\": 841.131, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 841.131, \"end\": 841.271, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 841.271, \"end\": 841.471, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"客\", \"start\": 841.471, \"end\": 841.952, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 841.952, \"end\": 842.072, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"己\", \"start\": 842.072, \"end\": 842.212, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 842.212, \"end\": 842.432, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"自\", \"start\": 842.432, \"end\": 842.612, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 842.612, 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00:00:07,923\n謝謝主席主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢數位部黃部長數位部備詢議員好\n\n2\n00:00:21,790 --> 00:00:40,695\n院長辛苦了其實從今天早上我在這裡聆聽您的報告的時候我就非常注意到首先當然我必須講只要有任何一件詐騙的存在人民就不會滿意但是呢詐騙這個部分我想詐騙集團他其實就是絞盡腦汁要\n\n3\n00:00:43,216 --> 00:00:57,291\n從人民或者是受害者的身上拿到最多的金錢上面的利益所以他也會絞盡腦汁那麼對整個行政團隊來講確實是非常非常大的嚴苛考驗跟挑戰\n\n4\n00:00:58,132 --> 00:01:18,678\n今天我們針對這個新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0的執行成效請您跟相關的部會來做報告也一整天了那我必須講這個行動的打擊的2.0的綱領是去年11月底也就是11月28號才開始\n\n5\n00:01:20,879 --> 00:01:42,649\n那麼說實在的根本都還沒滿一年如果我們用月來推算現在大概就是滿八個月而已其實現在在這個時間點所有防詐的各個相關部會坐在這裡是不是現在馬上就必須要來做檢討其實本席是存疑的因為坦白說立法院在這個時候他並不是會議的期間\n\n6\n00:01:43,709 --> 00:02:01,041\n但是因為民眾黨提案要研會民眾黨也提案說要來做這個報告那麼我們當然也就予以尊重但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場目前有一位啦那其他的民眾黨的委員呢有人早上黨首席還去車隊掃街了\n\n7\n00:02:02,742 --> 00:02:28,033\n所以我認為我希望真正關心這個議題的就不要作秀真的好好的認真來關心這個題目那麼我們一起來解決民眾的問題首先開始之前本席先來念一個最新的報導上面提到的就是道高一尺謀高一丈打詐2.0我們真的要加把勁根據行政院的官員說今年的詐騙期短有兩種改變了\n\n8\n00:02:30,029 --> 00:02:58,980\n第一個是詐騙的金額沒有變少一樣喔但是案件數變多了可見詐騙集團很狡猾他的作案動作越來越多那麼剛剛前面有委員一直提到的就是打詐的樣態當越來越多的時候我們到底要如何讓人民知道第二個當然等一下我也會就叫金管會的彭主委就是現在的洗錢流程變短了那麼\n\n9\n00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:26,793\n過去可能要有五個步驟要有超過三個金融機構以上但現在通常就是兩個步驟一下子經過一個金融機構就洗到了加密貨幣然後來無影去無蹤我想先就第一個就是詐騙的樣態變多本席想請問一下部長手機裡面有沒有下載一個叫做打詐通報平台系統\n\n10\n00:03:28,208 --> 00:03:56,850\n部長你有下載這個平台系統嗎委員講的是我們自己有一個網路有一個APP部長你有下載嗎有下載其實剛剛前面葛如君委員在問的就是這個包括這個通報的系統到底怎麼樣的操作其實本席有下載但是你知道這個通報系統有多少人知道有多少人在使用嗎我們來看下一張\n\n11\n00:03:58,742 --> 00:04:18,537\n這個通報系統5月15號上線到現在截至8月11號有19522位民眾下載那麼有3300剛好3838人使用這個APP來做案件的通報但是如果以GooglePlay平台上每個月\n\n12\n00:04:19,741 --> 00:04:34,933\n下載的流量有61萬件來講那麼我就請問部長你覺得這個使用量高嗎我們需要我們當然希望更高那我們也需要做一些宣傳這個我想我們可以再繼續努力\n\n13\n00:04:35,835 --> 00:04:57,235\n現在就是說很多民眾下載之後他們很熱心通報所以我們通報的案件有現在到溫佈縣至少超過25萬件然後裡面有發現14萬件以上是詐騙廣告所以讓我們能夠去下架這14萬多件的詐騙廣告所以雖然說參與的下載不多但是\n\n14\n00:04:57,815 --> 00:05:07,066\n這些民眾的熱情通報確實讓我們下架很多詐騙廣告但是我們會繼續努力讓更多人能夠去利用這樣的一個APP來協助政府打詐\n\n15\n00:05:07,881 --> 00:05:28,183\n坦白說本席是因為要質詢所以才去做了功課然後我才下載知道的人可以說是非常的少但是既然五月份到現在我們就已經上架但是使用量卻非常低其實它有一個功能是很好用的我們乾脆就藉由今天現在這個質詢的機會來告訴大家\n\n16\n00:05:30,285 --> 00:05:50,998\n就是當你發現任何一個平台上面有任何一個廣告任何一個社群你覺得有問題你只要複製貼上就可以通報而且在通報的過程中他會告訴你現在通報的狀況比如說本席現在看到放在最上面的一個是\n\n17\n00:05:52,278 --> 00:06:15,015\n蔡鴻圖的粉絲專頁還有國泰清控董事長他的粉絲專頁被通報了但是呢我點進去看之後他其實還在跟本人確認中所以這個也就是剛剛委員們槌尋這味道的就是說這是不是放進去之後到底能不能獲得證實\n\n18\n00:06:17,708 --> 00:06:22,366\n我看到的這個是我點進去看了8月15號就通報了\n\n19\n00:06:24,079 --> 00:06:48,464\n那8月15號也就是今天嘛那早上通報了之後那麼到了下午之後有沒有任何新的進展不知道但是也許現在我們諮詢的傳播出去了本人會趕快來確認這是不是真的那我覺得這樣的一個通報系統他是結合了跟平台的合作跟金管會跟財政部跟所有的社群\n\n20\n00:06:49,244 --> 00:07:11,387\n包括在我們的打炸相關的部會當中他都有做一個連結大家會知道這個資訊我覺得是一件好事但問題現在就在這裡宣傳不夠民眾不知道那麼就形同虛設到底我們要如何增強宣傳我們大家也知道巧婦難為無米之炊啦現在\n\n21\n00:07:12,448 --> 00:07:41,031\n數位部到底有沒有打算要做宣傳當然本席也可以幫忙找出數據包括之前數位部因為宣傳費用這個通院刪減60%然後宣傳提案又刪了50%所以你們到底還剩下多少的宣傳那這個部分到底有沒有安排宣傳還是你就是把它上架在Google的AppStore跟這個Apple的AppStore然後其他你就沒有再管它\n\n22\n00:07:42,345 --> 00:08:02,285\n委員其實講到一個重點就是因為經費被大刪的結果我們現在所有經費都拿去發展因為這個APL包括我們要發展AI的技術去做這個掃描所以的確在宣傳經費上是幾乎沒有但是我想以後我們會在有限資源之下我們會盡量去做宣傳\n\n23\n00:08:04,423 --> 00:08:30,836\n這個基本上院長我覺得這個通報系統我自己下載了之後我覺得有它的必要存在性但是剛剛前面的委員也在質詢就是是不是讓平台擁有太多的下架權力但是這個就是這樣當初我們在自訂有關於打炸專法的時候求的是快求的是效率求的是第一時間的阻斷\n\n24\n00:08:32,335 --> 00:08:52,993\n但是現在呢又過來變成是有人來跟你澄清說哎呀我是正宮結果我的真正的粉絲被阻擋了是不是平台把我屬於我本人真正的認證的粉絲團反而被下架了我要上傳我的東西的時候反而我被阻攔了\n\n25\n00:08:53,473 --> 00:09:05,805\n所以在快速跟正確性之間到底有沒有一個平衡包括剛剛我講的這個通報的平台有沒有bug還是說其實在這個中間真的缺少了一個守門員\n\n26\n00:09:08,323 --> 00:09:29,458\n剛剛從委員那個案例當中就知道他確實有經過一段時間的查和審查那審查的過程當中本人也應該積極的來配合告訴大家說我這個是名符其實的那這個就會安全了那如果他真的是碰到一個假的他大概不敢出面我們就會把他做下一步的處置\n\n27\n00:09:30,419 --> 00:09:53,802\n那這個也是當初速發部在設計這個通報平台當中花了很長時間一直在我們內部的會議一直在反覆的使用我們非常謹慎一定要他能夠達到真實這個目的才出來的談了很多次我發覺都不如今天委員在這裡講的這一次所以您今天應該我們可以請委員當我們的代言人\n\n28\n00:09:54,795 --> 00:10:17,609\n我是真的覺得這個東西五月底上線到現在知道的人太少然後再來就是驗證的速度是不是夠快尤其是像粉絲團或者是Instagram或者是其他這個所謂的社群平台上面的這種所謂個人的粉絲團需要驗證確實需要花一點時間能不能有更多快速的綠色通道那這個就請\n\n29\n00:10:18,530 --> 00:10:33,675\n行政院這裡跟數位部這裡來做一個跟平台更快速的溝通那麼至於如果是所謂我們講的這種廣告式的詐騙那麼他一見就可以立刻把他拉下來那麼這個當然就可以有比較快的效率\n\n30\n00:10:35,502 --> 00:11:01,205\n報告委員的確沒錯這個整個過程中也就是說尤其特別講的是Meta因為被我們要求結果產生更強硬的自律的措施這裡面包括社群守則的確是有需要精進的空間所以剛剛講的很多間的下架是它內部自律的結果那我想我們會再跟Meta再去溝通它的確這個所謂的社群守則在判斷這個所謂的詐騙廣告的時候\n\n31\n00:11:02,997 --> 00:11:16,043\n需要更精準這個我們會繼續再跟Meta努力但是很多下架並不是我們數碼部通知的就是他們自律用社群守則去下架這個需要再精進這個我們再會去跟Meta再來討論\n\n32\n00:11:17,213 --> 00:11:39,475\n好那麼接下來呢我要看下一張就是剛剛提到的兩個重點第一個是手段多樣那麼如何讓民眾更知道多樣的手段那麼通報的方式當然要多元再來當然就是有關於虛擬貨幣現在是不是虛擬的服務商虛擬貨幣的服務商成為洗錢的這樣的一個管道當你一旦\n\n33\n00:11:40,015 --> 00:12:08,125\n放進了虛擬貨幣的平台之後可能就真的再也來無影去無蹤因為我們都知道這個所謂在網路上面一旦錢洗出去之後要追都追不回來只能用事後的方式來補強除了我知道其實今天早上已經有非常多的委員在詢問有關於就是我們的虛擬資產的法律到底什麼時候可以真的送到立法院因為我們已經過了預告期了\n\n34\n00:12:09,005 --> 00:12:29,386\n那現在大家非常要知道的是行政院在這個部分在金管會在這個部分裡面到底怎麼樣來看這個把關的部分是跟委員說明一下我們在那個這個虛擬資產服務法草案我們在列為27號送進行政院而且很快的行政院那個劉靜清是政委已經做過審查\n\n35\n00:12:30,987 --> 00:12:50,252\n持續在審查中因為這個條文是一個全新的而且非常複雜比如這裡面還有涉及到現在全世界都在關注的穩定幣這部分大家都非常的關注我們在送出來之前也已經開過超過20場的公聽會其實也整合了蠻多的意見我想這個應該會盡速來在行政院討論完畢然後送到行政院來\n\n36\n00:12:50,731 --> 00:13:14,207\n好因為其實現在缺的就是一個法源我當然知道就是現在許多我們的相關的這個虛擬的貨幣的服務商喔他們其實是很配合的不論他們有沒有在台灣落地他們都很願意配合相關的單位來進行打詐的協助但是有沒有法源是非常的重要如果說今天明明知道這個賬戶有問題\n\n37\n00:13:15,908 --> 00:13:30,986\n但是沒有法源可以立即來做阻斷那麼我們只能變成事後後續來把錢追回來但是放上了網路一切斷鏈之後前後追查不到那麼很難錢會追回來\n\n38\n00:13:31,807 --> 00:13:46,360\n所以對於所謂的很快到底要有多快速度上面院長有沒有一個想法跟宣示因為我們都知道虛擬資產的服務商他們多數是跟銀行端確實是有建立一定的聯絡的管道\n\n39\n00:13:46,880 --> 00:14:07,376\n但是如果說今天我們在法規上能夠更健全當我們知道這一筆錢送進了虛擬資產服務平台的時候他就是有憑有據不是來路不明甚至於就是客戶自己的自有的資金那麼可以提供這樣的所謂的KYC的時候\n\n40\n00:14:07,836 --> 00:14:35,903\n那麼當然我們就可以更杜絕所謂剛剛我前面提到的透過這樣的一個虛擬資產虛擬幣把錢洗出去所以法的重要性是來自於不只對於這些服務商提供他們一定的法源的監控是他們跟這些金融機構之間彼此的連結也有一個法源的根據我對於台灣的金融機構在我們金管會的金融監督底下他們包括今年\n\n41\n00:14:37,063 --> 00:14:58,044\n前幾個月這個所謂警示帳戶都慢慢逐漸在減少因為對於金融機構來講他們的警示帳戶超過一定的比例他們會收到金管會相關的這個詢問甚至於懲處所以他們是非常非常仔細跟小心的可是聯絡到所以我們的\n\n42\n00:14:59,285 --> 00:15:25,353\n虛擬幣的服務提供商的時候可能中間就會有一個斷鏈的bug這個也是現在詐騙集團找到可以鑽漏洞的巧門所以我才會認為這個法規必須要加緊腳步剛剛主委說六月底已經呈報到院六月底呈報到院我認為如果內容完整而且非常的充實可用為了趕快我們在下會期是不是可以把它送出來\n\n43\n00:15:31,888 --> 00:15:32,733\n好謝謝林楚瑩委員質詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3761\t7923\t謝謝主席主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢數位部黃部長數位部備詢議員好\n21790\t40695\t院長辛苦了其實從今天早上我在這裡聆聽您的報告的時候我就非常注意到首先當然我必須講只要有任何一件詐騙的存在人民就不會滿意但是呢詐騙這個部分我想詐騙集團他其實就是絞盡腦汁要\n43216\t57291\t從人民或者是受害者的身上拿到最多的金錢上面的利益所以他也會絞盡腦汁那麼對整個行政團隊來講確實是非常非常大的嚴苛考驗跟挑戰\n58132\t78678\t今天我們針對這個新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0的執行成效請您跟相關的部會來做報告也一整天了那我必須講這個行動的打擊的2.0的綱領是去年11月底也就是11月28號才開始\n80879\t102649\t那麼說實在的根本都還沒滿一年如果我們用月來推算現在大概就是滿八個月而已其實現在在這個時間點所有防詐的各個相關部會坐在這裡是不是現在馬上就必須要來做檢討其實本席是存疑的因為坦白說立法院在這個時候他並不是會議的期間\n103709\t121041\t但是因為民眾黨提案要研會民眾黨也提案說要來做這個報告那麼我們當然也就予以尊重但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場目前有一位啦那其他的民眾黨的委員呢有人早上黨首席還去車隊掃街了\n122742\t148033\t所以我認為我希望真正關心這個議題的就不要作秀真的好好的認真來關心這個題目那麼我們一起來解決民眾的問題首先開始之前本席先來念一個最新的報導上面提到的就是道高一尺 謀高一丈打詐2.0我們真的要加把勁根據行政院的官員說今年的詐騙期短有兩種改變了\n150029\t178980\t第一個是詐騙的金額沒有變少一樣喔但是案件數變多了可見詐騙集團很狡猾他的作案動作越來越多那麼剛剛前面有委員一直提到的就是打詐的樣態當越來越多的時候我們到底要如何讓人民知道第二個當然等一下我也會就叫金管會的彭主委就是現在的洗錢流程變短了那麼\n179720\t206793\t過去可能要有五個步驟要有超過三個金融機構以上但現在通常就是兩個步驟一下子經過一個金融機構就洗到了加密貨幣然後來無影去無蹤我想先就第一個就是詐騙的樣態變多本席想請問一下部長手機裡面有沒有下載一個叫做打詐通報平台系統\n208208\t236850\t部長你有下載這個平台系統嗎委員講的是我們自己有一個網路有一個APP部長你有下載嗎有下載其實剛剛前面葛如君委員在問的就是這個包括這個通報的系統到底怎麼樣的操作其實本席有下載但是你知道這個通報系統有多少人知道有多少人在使用嗎我們來看下一張\n238742\t258537\t這個通報系統5月15號上線到現在截至8月11號有19522位民眾下載那麼有3300剛好3838人使用這個APP來做案件的通報但是如果以Google Play平台上每個月\n259741\t274933\t下載的流量有61萬件來講那麼我就請問部長你覺得這個使用量高嗎我們需要我們當然希望更高那我們也需要做一些宣傳這個我想我們可以再繼續努力\n275835\t297235\t現在就是說很多民眾下載之後他們很熱心通報所以我們通報的案件有現在到溫佈縣至少超過25萬件然後裡面有發現14萬件以上是詐騙廣告所以讓我們能夠去下架這14萬多件的詐騙廣告所以雖然說參與的下載不多但是\n297815\t307066\t這些民眾的熱情通報確實讓我們下架很多詐騙廣告但是我們會繼續努力讓更多人能夠去利用這樣的一個APP來協助政府打詐\n307881\t328183\t坦白說本席是因為要質詢所以才去做了功課然後我才下載知道的人可以說是非常的少但是既然五月份到現在我們就已經上架但是使用量卻非常低其實它有一個功能是很好用的我們乾脆就藉由今天現在這個質詢的機會來告訴大家\n330285\t350998\t就是當你發現任何一個平台上面有任何一個廣告任何一個社群你覺得有問題你只要複製貼上就可以通報而且在通報的過程中他會告訴你現在通報的狀況比如說本席現在看到放在最上面的一個是\n352278\t375015\t蔡鴻圖的粉絲專頁還有國泰清控董事長他的粉絲專頁被通報了但是呢我點進去看之後他其實還在跟本人確認中所以這個也就是剛剛委員們槌尋這味道的就是說這是不是放進去之後到底能不能獲得證實\n377708\t382366\t我看到的這個是我點進去看了8月15號就通報了\n384079\t408464\t那8月15號也就是今天嘛那早上通報了之後那麼到了下午之後有沒有任何新的進展不知道但是也許現在我們諮詢的傳播出去了本人會趕快來確認這是不是真的那我覺得這樣的一個通報系統他是結合了跟平台的合作跟金管會跟財政部跟所有的社群\n409244\t431387\t包括在我們的打炸相關的部會當中他都有做一個連結大家會知道這個資訊我覺得是一件好事但問題現在就在這裡宣傳不夠民眾不知道那麼就形同虛設到底我們要如何增強宣傳我們大家也知道巧婦難為無米之炊啦現在\n432448\t461031\t數位部到底有沒有打算要做宣傳當然本席也可以幫忙找出數據包括之前數位部因為宣傳費用這個通院刪減60%然後宣傳提案又刪了50%所以你們到底還剩下多少的宣傳那這個部分到底有沒有安排宣傳還是你就是把它上架在Google的App Store跟這個Apple的App Store然後其他你就沒有再管它\n462345\t482285\t委員其實講到一個重點就是因為經費被大刪的結果我們現在所有經費都拿去發展因為這個APL包括我們要發展AI的技術去做這個掃描所以的確在宣傳經費上是幾乎沒有但是我想以後我們會在有限資源之下我們會盡量去做宣傳\n484423\t510836\t這個基本上 院長我覺得這個通報系統我自己下載了之後我覺得有它的必要存在性但是剛剛前面的委員也在質詢就是是不是讓平台擁有太多的下架權力但是這個就是這樣當初我們在自訂有關於打炸專法的時候求的是快 求的是效率求的是第一時間的阻斷\n512335\t532993\t但是現在呢又過來變成是有人來跟你澄清說哎呀我是正宮結果我的真正的粉絲被阻擋了是不是平台把我屬於我本人真正的認證的粉絲團反而被下架了我要上傳我的東西的時候反而我被阻攔了\n533473\t545805\t所以在快速跟正確性之間到底有沒有一個平衡包括剛剛我講的這個通報的平台有沒有bug還是說其實在這個中間真的缺少了一個守門員\n548323\t569458\t剛剛從委員那個案例當中就知道他確實有經過一段時間的查和審查那審查的過程當中本人也應該積極的來配合告訴大家說我這個是名符其實的那這個就會安全了那如果他真的是碰到一個假的他大概不敢出面我們就會把他做下一步的處置\n570419\t593802\t那這個也是當初速發部在設計這個通報平台當中花了很長時間一直在我們內部的會議一直在反覆的使用我們非常謹慎一定要他能夠達到真實這個目的才出來的談了很多次我發覺都不如今天委員在這裡講的這一次所以您今天應該我們可以請委員當我們的代言人\n594795\t617609\t我是真的覺得這個東西五月底上線到現在知道的人太少然後再來就是驗證的速度是不是夠快尤其是像粉絲團或者是Instagram或者是其他這個所謂的社群平台上面的這種所謂個人的粉絲團需要驗證確實需要花一點時間能不能有更多快速的綠色通道那這個就請\n618530\t633675\t行政院這裡跟數位部這裡來做一個跟平台更快速的溝通那麼至於如果是所謂我們講的這種廣告式的詐騙那麼他一見就可以立刻把他拉下來那麼這個當然就可以有比較快的效率\n635502\t661205\t報告委員的確沒錯這個整個過程中也就是說尤其特別講的是Meta因為被我們要求結果產生更強硬的自律的措施這裡面包括社群守則的確是有需要精進的空間所以剛剛講的很多間的下架是它內部自律的結果那我想我們會再跟Meta再去溝通它的確這個所謂的社群守則在判斷這個所謂的詐騙廣告的時候\n662997\t676043\t需要更精準這個我們會繼續再跟Meta努力但是很多下架並不是我們數碼部通知的就是他們自律用社群守則去下架這個需要再精進這個我們再會去跟Meta再來討論\n677213\t699475\t好那麼接下來呢我要看下一張就是剛剛提到的兩個重點第一個是手段多樣那麼如何讓民眾更知道多樣的手段那麼通報的方式當然要多元再來當然就是有關於虛擬貨幣現在是不是虛擬的服務商虛擬貨幣的服務商成為洗錢的這樣的一個管道當你一旦\n700015\t728125\t放進了虛擬貨幣的平台之後可能就真的再也來無影去無蹤因為我們都知道這個所謂在網路上面一旦錢洗出去之後要追都追不回來只能用事後的方式來補強除了我知道其實今天早上已經有非常多的委員在詢問有關於就是我們的虛擬資產的法律到底什麼時候可以真的送到立法院因為我們已經過了預告期了\n729005\t749386\t那現在大家非常要知道的是行政院在這個部分在金管會在這個部分裡面到底怎麼樣來看這個把關的部分是跟委員說明一下我們在那個這個虛擬資產服務法草案我們在列為27號送進行政院而且很快的行政院那個劉靜清是政委已經做過審查\n750987\t770252\t持續在審查中因為這個條文是一個全新的而且非常複雜比如這裡面還有涉及到現在全世界都在關注的穩定幣這部分大家都非常的關注我們在送出來之前也已經開過超過20場的公聽會其實也整合了蠻多的意見我想這個應該會盡速來在行政院討論完畢然後送到行政院來\n770731\t794207\t好因為其實現在缺的就是一個法源我當然知道就是現在許多我們的相關的這個虛擬的貨幣的服務商喔他們其實是很配合的不論他們有沒有在台灣落地他們都很願意配合相關的單位來進行打詐的協助但是有沒有法源是非常的重要如果說今天明明知道這個賬戶有問題\n795908\t810986\t但是沒有法源可以立即來做阻斷那麼我們只能變成事後後續來把錢追回來但是放上了網路一切斷鏈之後前後追查不到那麼很難錢會追回來\n811807\t826360\t所以對於所謂的很快到底要有多快速度上面院長有沒有一個想法跟宣示因為我們都知道虛擬資產的服務商他們多數是跟銀行端確實是有建立一定的聯絡的管道\n826880\t847376\t但是如果說今天我們在法規上能夠更健全當我們知道這一筆錢送進了虛擬資產服務平台的時候他就是有憑有據不是來路不明甚至於就是客戶自己的自有的資金那麼可以提供這樣的所謂的KYC的時候\n847836\t875903\t那麼當然我們就可以更杜絕所謂剛剛我前面提到的透過這樣的一個虛擬資產虛擬幣把錢洗出去所以法的重要性是來自於不只對於這些服務商提供他們一定的法源的監控是他們跟這些金融機構之間彼此的連結也有一個法源的根據我對於台灣的金融機構在我們金管會的金融監督底下他們包括今年\n877063\t898044\t前幾個月這個所謂警示帳戶都慢慢逐漸在減少因為對於金融機構來講他們的警示帳戶超過一定的比例他們會收到金管會相關的這個詢問甚至於懲處所以他們是非常非常仔細跟小心的可是聯絡到所以我們的\n899285\t925353\t虛擬幣的服務提供商的時候可能中間就會有一個斷鏈的bug這個也是現在詐騙集團找到可以鑽漏洞的巧門所以我才會認為這個法規必須要加緊腳步剛剛主委說六月底已經呈報到院六月底呈報到院我認為如果內容完整而且非常的充實可用為了趕快我們在下會期是不是可以把它送出來\n931888\t932733\t好 謝謝林楚瑩委員質詢\n","txt":"謝謝主席主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢數位部黃部長數位部備詢議員好\n院長辛苦了其實從今天早上我在這裡聆聽您的報告的時候我就非常注意到首先當然我必須講只要有任何一件詐騙的存在人民就不會滿意但是呢詐騙這個部分我想詐騙集團他其實就是絞盡腦汁要\n從人民或者是受害者的身上拿到最多的金錢上面的利益所以他也會絞盡腦汁那麼對整個行政團隊來講確實是非常非常大的嚴苛考驗跟挑戰\n今天我們針對這個新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0的執行成效請您跟相關的部會來做報告也一整天了那我必須講這個行動的打擊的2.0的綱領是去年11月底也就是11月28號才開始\n那麼說實在的根本都還沒滿一年如果我們用月來推算現在大概就是滿八個月而已其實現在在這個時間點所有防詐的各個相關部會坐在這裡是不是現在馬上就必須要來做檢討其實本席是存疑的因為坦白說立法院在這個時候他並不是會議的期間\n但是因為民眾黨提案要研會民眾黨也提案說要來做這個報告那麼我們當然也就予以尊重但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場目前有一位啦那其他的民眾黨的委員呢有人早上黨首席還去車隊掃街了\n所以我認為我希望真正關心這個議題的就不要作秀真的好好的認真來關心這個題目那麼我們一起來解決民眾的問題首先開始之前本席先來念一個最新的報導上面提到的就是道高一尺 謀高一丈打詐2.0我們真的要加把勁根據行政院的官員說今年的詐騙期短有兩種改變了\n第一個是詐騙的金額沒有變少一樣喔但是案件數變多了可見詐騙集團很狡猾他的作案動作越來越多那麼剛剛前面有委員一直提到的就是打詐的樣態當越來越多的時候我們到底要如何讓人民知道第二個當然等一下我也會就叫金管會的彭主委就是現在的洗錢流程變短了那麼\n過去可能要有五個步驟要有超過三個金融機構以上但現在通常就是兩個步驟一下子經過一個金融機構就洗到了加密貨幣然後來無影去無蹤我想先就第一個就是詐騙的樣態變多本席想請問一下部長手機裡面有沒有下載一個叫做打詐通報平台系統\n部長你有下載這個平台系統嗎委員講的是我們自己有一個網路有一個APP部長你有下載嗎有下載其實剛剛前面葛如君委員在問的就是這個包括這個通報的系統到底怎麼樣的操作其實本席有下載但是你知道這個通報系統有多少人知道有多少人在使用嗎我們來看下一張\n這個通報系統5月15號上線到現在截至8月11號有19522位民眾下載那麼有3300剛好3838人使用這個APP來做案件的通報但是如果以Google Play平台上每個月\n下載的流量有61萬件來講那麼我就請問部長你覺得這個使用量高嗎我們需要我們當然希望更高那我們也需要做一些宣傳這個我想我們可以再繼續努力\n現在就是說很多民眾下載之後他們很熱心通報所以我們通報的案件有現在到溫佈縣至少超過25萬件然後裡面有發現14萬件以上是詐騙廣告所以讓我們能夠去下架這14萬多件的詐騙廣告所以雖然說參與的下載不多但是\n這些民眾的熱情通報確實讓我們下架很多詐騙廣告但是我們會繼續努力讓更多人能夠去利用這樣的一個APP來協助政府打詐\n坦白說本席是因為要質詢所以才去做了功課然後我才下載知道的人可以說是非常的少但是既然五月份到現在我們就已經上架但是使用量卻非常低其實它有一個功能是很好用的我們乾脆就藉由今天現在這個質詢的機會來告訴大家\n就是當你發現任何一個平台上面有任何一個廣告任何一個社群你覺得有問題你只要複製貼上就可以通報而且在通報的過程中他會告訴你現在通報的狀況比如說本席現在看到放在最上面的一個是\n蔡鴻圖的粉絲專頁還有國泰清控董事長他的粉絲專頁被通報了但是呢我點進去看之後他其實還在跟本人確認中所以這個也就是剛剛委員們槌尋這味道的就是說這是不是放進去之後到底能不能獲得證實\n我看到的這個是我點進去看了8月15號就通報了\n那8月15號也就是今天嘛那早上通報了之後那麼到了下午之後有沒有任何新的進展不知道但是也許現在我們諮詢的傳播出去了本人會趕快來確認這是不是真的那我覺得這樣的一個通報系統他是結合了跟平台的合作跟金管會跟財政部跟所有的社群\n包括在我們的打炸相關的部會當中他都有做一個連結大家會知道這個資訊我覺得是一件好事但問題現在就在這裡宣傳不夠民眾不知道那麼就形同虛設到底我們要如何增強宣傳我們大家也知道巧婦難為無米之炊啦現在\n數位部到底有沒有打算要做宣傳當然本席也可以幫忙找出數據包括之前數位部因為宣傳費用這個通院刪減60%然後宣傳提案又刪了50%所以你們到底還剩下多少的宣傳那這個部分到底有沒有安排宣傳還是你就是把它上架在Google的App Store跟這個Apple的App Store然後其他你就沒有再管它\n委員其實講到一個重點就是因為經費被大刪的結果我們現在所有經費都拿去發展因為這個APL包括我們要發展AI的技術去做這個掃描所以的確在宣傳經費上是幾乎沒有但是我想以後我們會在有限資源之下我們會盡量去做宣傳\n這個基本上 院長我覺得這個通報系統我自己下載了之後我覺得有它的必要存在性但是剛剛前面的委員也在質詢就是是不是讓平台擁有太多的下架權力但是這個就是這樣當初我們在自訂有關於打炸專法的時候求的是快 求的是效率求的是第一時間的阻斷\n但是現在呢又過來變成是有人來跟你澄清說哎呀我是正宮結果我的真正的粉絲被阻擋了是不是平台把我屬於我本人真正的認證的粉絲團反而被下架了我要上傳我的東西的時候反而我被阻攔了\n所以在快速跟正確性之間到底有沒有一個平衡包括剛剛我講的這個通報的平台有沒有bug還是說其實在這個中間真的缺少了一個守門員\n剛剛從委員那個案例當中就知道他確實有經過一段時間的查和審查那審查的過程當中本人也應該積極的來配合告訴大家說我這個是名符其實的那這個就會安全了那如果他真的是碰到一個假的他大概不敢出面我們就會把他做下一步的處置\n那這個也是當初速發部在設計這個通報平台當中花了很長時間一直在我們內部的會議一直在反覆的使用我們非常謹慎一定要他能夠達到真實這個目的才出來的談了很多次我發覺都不如今天委員在這裡講的這一次所以您今天應該我們可以請委員當我們的代言人\n我是真的覺得這個東西五月底上線到現在知道的人太少然後再來就是驗證的速度是不是夠快尤其是像粉絲團或者是Instagram或者是其他這個所謂的社群平台上面的這種所謂個人的粉絲團需要驗證確實需要花一點時間能不能有更多快速的綠色通道那這個就請\n行政院這裡跟數位部這裡來做一個跟平台更快速的溝通那麼至於如果是所謂我們講的這種廣告式的詐騙那麼他一見就可以立刻把他拉下來那麼這個當然就可以有比較快的效率\n報告委員的確沒錯這個整個過程中也就是說尤其特別講的是Meta因為被我們要求結果產生更強硬的自律的措施這裡面包括社群守則的確是有需要精進的空間所以剛剛講的很多間的下架是它內部自律的結果那我想我們會再跟Meta再去溝通它的確這個所謂的社群守則在判斷這個所謂的詐騙廣告的時候\n需要更精準這個我們會繼續再跟Meta努力但是很多下架並不是我們數碼部通知的就是他們自律用社群守則去下架這個需要再精進這個我們再會去跟Meta再來討論\n好那麼接下來呢我要看下一張就是剛剛提到的兩個重點第一個是手段多樣那麼如何讓民眾更知道多樣的手段那麼通報的方式當然要多元再來當然就是有關於虛擬貨幣現在是不是虛擬的服務商虛擬貨幣的服務商成為洗錢的這樣的一個管道當你一旦\n放進了虛擬貨幣的平台之後可能就真的再也來無影去無蹤因為我們都知道這個所謂在網路上面一旦錢洗出去之後要追都追不回來只能用事後的方式來補強除了我知道其實今天早上已經有非常多的委員在詢問有關於就是我們的虛擬資產的法律到底什麼時候可以真的送到立法院因為我們已經過了預告期了\n那現在大家非常要知道的是行政院在這個部分在金管會在這個部分裡面到底怎麼樣來看這個把關的部分是跟委員說明一下我們在那個這個虛擬資產服務法草案我們在列為27號送進行政院而且很快的行政院那個劉靜清是政委已經做過審查\n持續在審查中因為這個條文是一個全新的而且非常複雜比如這裡面還有涉及到現在全世界都在關注的穩定幣這部分大家都非常的關注我們在送出來之前也已經開過超過20場的公聽會其實也整合了蠻多的意見我想這個應該會盡速來在行政院討論完畢然後送到行政院來\n好因為其實現在缺的就是一個法源我當然知道就是現在許多我們的相關的這個虛擬的貨幣的服務商喔他們其實是很配合的不論他們有沒有在台灣落地他們都很願意配合相關的單位來進行打詐的協助但是有沒有法源是非常的重要如果說今天明明知道這個賬戶有問題\n但是沒有法源可以立即來做阻斷那麼我們只能變成事後後續來把錢追回來但是放上了網路一切斷鏈之後前後追查不到那麼很難錢會追回來\n所以對於所謂的很快到底要有多快速度上面院長有沒有一個想法跟宣示因為我們都知道虛擬資產的服務商他們多數是跟銀行端確實是有建立一定的聯絡的管道\n但是如果說今天我們在法規上能夠更健全當我們知道這一筆錢送進了虛擬資產服務平台的時候他就是有憑有據不是來路不明甚至於就是客戶自己的自有的資金那麼可以提供這樣的所謂的KYC的時候\n那麼當然我們就可以更杜絕所謂剛剛我前面提到的透過這樣的一個虛擬資產虛擬幣把錢洗出去所以法的重要性是來自於不只對於這些服務商提供他們一定的法源的監控是他們跟這些金融機構之間彼此的連結也有一個法源的根據我對於台灣的金融機構在我們金管會的金融監督底下他們包括今年\n前幾個月這個所謂警示帳戶都慢慢逐漸在減少因為對於金融機構來講他們的警示帳戶超過一定的比例他們會收到金管會相關的這個詢問甚至於懲處所以他們是非常非常仔細跟小心的可是聯絡到所以我們的\n虛擬幣的服務提供商的時候可能中間就會有一個斷鏈的bug這個也是現在詐騙集團找到可以鑽漏洞的巧門所以我才會認為這個法規必須要加緊腳步剛剛主委說六月底已經呈報到院六月底呈報到院我認為如果內容完整而且非常的充實可用為了趕快我們在下會期是不是可以把它送出來\n好 謝謝林楚瑩委員質詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.761 --> 00:07.923\n謝謝主席主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢數位部黃部長數位部備詢議員好\n\n00:21.790 --> 00:40.695\n院長辛苦了其實從今天早上我在這裡聆聽您的報告的時候我就非常注意到首先當然我必須講只要有任何一件詐騙的存在人民就不會滿意但是呢詐騙這個部分我想詐騙集團他其實就是絞盡腦汁要\n\n00:43.216 --> 00:57.291\n從人民或者是受害者的身上拿到最多的金錢上面的利益所以他也會絞盡腦汁那麼對整個行政團隊來講確實是非常非常大的嚴苛考驗跟挑戰\n\n00:58.132 --> 01:18.678\n今天我們針對這個新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0的執行成效請您跟相關的部會來做報告也一整天了那我必須講這個行動的打擊的2.0的綱領是去年11月底也就是11月28號才開始\n\n01:20.879 --> 01:42.649\n那麼說實在的根本都還沒滿一年如果我們用月來推算現在大概就是滿八個月而已其實現在在這個時間點所有防詐的各個相關部會坐在這裡是不是現在馬上就必須要來做檢討其實本席是存疑的因為坦白說立法院在這個時候他並不是會議的期間\n\n01:43.709 --> 02:01.041\n但是因為民眾黨提案要研會民眾黨也提案說要來做這個報告那麼我們當然也就予以尊重但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場目前有一位啦那其他的民眾黨的委員呢有人早上黨首席還去車隊掃街了\n\n02:02.742 --> 02:28.033\n所以我認為我希望真正關心這個議題的就不要作秀真的好好的認真來關心這個題目那麼我們一起來解決民眾的問題首先開始之前本席先來念一個最新的報導上面提到的就是道高一尺謀高一丈打詐2.0我們真的要加把勁根據行政院的官員說今年的詐騙期短有兩種改變了\n\n02:30.029 --> 02:58.980\n第一個是詐騙的金額沒有變少一樣喔但是案件數變多了可見詐騙集團很狡猾他的作案動作越來越多那麼剛剛前面有委員一直提到的就是打詐的樣態當越來越多的時候我們到底要如何讓人民知道第二個當然等一下我也會就叫金管會的彭主委就是現在的洗錢流程變短了那麼\n\n02:59.720 --> 03:26.793\n過去可能要有五個步驟要有超過三個金融機構以上但現在通常就是兩個步驟一下子經過一個金融機構就洗到了加密貨幣然後來無影去無蹤我想先就第一個就是詐騙的樣態變多本席想請問一下部長手機裡面有沒有下載一個叫做打詐通報平台系統\n\n03:28.208 --> 03:56.850\n部長你有下載這個平台系統嗎委員講的是我們自己有一個網路有一個APP部長你有下載嗎有下載其實剛剛前面葛如君委員在問的就是這個包括這個通報的系統到底怎麼樣的操作其實本席有下載但是你知道這個通報系統有多少人知道有多少人在使用嗎我們來看下一張\n\n03:58.742 --> 04:18.537\n這個通報系統5月15號上線到現在截至8月11號有19522位民眾下載那麼有3300剛好3838人使用這個APP來做案件的通報但是如果以GooglePlay平台上每個月\n\n04:19.741 --> 04:34.933\n下載的流量有61萬件來講那麼我就請問部長你覺得這個使用量高嗎我們需要我們當然希望更高那我們也需要做一些宣傳這個我想我們可以再繼續努力\n\n04:35.835 --> 04:57.235\n現在就是說很多民眾下載之後他們很熱心通報所以我們通報的案件有現在到溫佈縣至少超過25萬件然後裡面有發現14萬件以上是詐騙廣告所以讓我們能夠去下架這14萬多件的詐騙廣告所以雖然說參與的下載不多但是\n\n04:57.815 --> 05:07.066\n這些民眾的熱情通報確實讓我們下架很多詐騙廣告但是我們會繼續努力讓更多人能夠去利用這樣的一個APP來協助政府打詐\n\n05:07.881 --> 05:28.183\n坦白說本席是因為要質詢所以才去做了功課然後我才下載知道的人可以說是非常的少但是既然五月份到現在我們就已經上架但是使用量卻非常低其實它有一個功能是很好用的我們乾脆就藉由今天現在這個質詢的機會來告訴大家\n\n05:30.285 --> 05:50.998\n就是當你發現任何一個平台上面有任何一個廣告任何一個社群你覺得有問題你只要複製貼上就可以通報而且在通報的過程中他會告訴你現在通報的狀況比如說本席現在看到放在最上面的一個是\n\n05:52.278 --> 06:15.015\n蔡鴻圖的粉絲專頁還有國泰清控董事長他的粉絲專頁被通報了但是呢我點進去看之後他其實還在跟本人確認中所以這個也就是剛剛委員們槌尋這味道的就是說這是不是放進去之後到底能不能獲得證實\n\n06:17.708 --> 06:22.366\n我看到的這個是我點進去看了8月15號就通報了\n\n06:24.079 --> 06:48.464\n那8月15號也就是今天嘛那早上通報了之後那麼到了下午之後有沒有任何新的進展不知道但是也許現在我們諮詢的傳播出去了本人會趕快來確認這是不是真的那我覺得這樣的一個通報系統他是結合了跟平台的合作跟金管會跟財政部跟所有的社群\n\n06:49.244 --> 07:11.387\n包括在我們的打炸相關的部會當中他都有做一個連結大家會知道這個資訊我覺得是一件好事但問題現在就在這裡宣傳不夠民眾不知道那麼就形同虛設到底我們要如何增強宣傳我們大家也知道巧婦難為無米之炊啦現在\n\n07:12.448 --> 07:41.031\n數位部到底有沒有打算要做宣傳當然本席也可以幫忙找出數據包括之前數位部因為宣傳費用這個通院刪減60%然後宣傳提案又刪了50%所以你們到底還剩下多少的宣傳那這個部分到底有沒有安排宣傳還是你就是把它上架在Google的AppStore跟這個Apple的AppStore然後其他你就沒有再管它\n\n07:42.345 --> 08:02.285\n委員其實講到一個重點就是因為經費被大刪的結果我們現在所有經費都拿去發展因為這個APL包括我們要發展AI的技術去做這個掃描所以的確在宣傳經費上是幾乎沒有但是我想以後我們會在有限資源之下我們會盡量去做宣傳\n\n08:04.423 --> 08:30.836\n這個基本上院長我覺得這個通報系統我自己下載了之後我覺得有它的必要存在性但是剛剛前面的委員也在質詢就是是不是讓平台擁有太多的下架權力但是這個就是這樣當初我們在自訂有關於打炸專法的時候求的是快求的是效率求的是第一時間的阻斷\n\n08:32.335 --> 08:52.993\n但是現在呢又過來變成是有人來跟你澄清說哎呀我是正宮結果我的真正的粉絲被阻擋了是不是平台把我屬於我本人真正的認證的粉絲團反而被下架了我要上傳我的東西的時候反而我被阻攔了\n\n08:53.473 --> 09:05.805\n所以在快速跟正確性之間到底有沒有一個平衡包括剛剛我講的這個通報的平台有沒有bug還是說其實在這個中間真的缺少了一個守門員\n\n09:08.323 --> 09:29.458\n剛剛從委員那個案例當中就知道他確實有經過一段時間的查和審查那審查的過程當中本人也應該積極的來配合告訴大家說我這個是名符其實的那這個就會安全了那如果他真的是碰到一個假的他大概不敢出面我們就會把他做下一步的處置\n\n09:30.419 --> 09:53.802\n那這個也是當初速發部在設計這個通報平台當中花了很長時間一直在我們內部的會議一直在反覆的使用我們非常謹慎一定要他能夠達到真實這個目的才出來的談了很多次我發覺都不如今天委員在這裡講的這一次所以您今天應該我們可以請委員當我們的代言人\n\n09:54.795 --> 10:17.609\n我是真的覺得這個東西五月底上線到現在知道的人太少然後再來就是驗證的速度是不是夠快尤其是像粉絲團或者是Instagram或者是其他這個所謂的社群平台上面的這種所謂個人的粉絲團需要驗證確實需要花一點時間能不能有更多快速的綠色通道那這個就請\n\n10:18.530 --> 10:33.675\n行政院這裡跟數位部這裡來做一個跟平台更快速的溝通那麼至於如果是所謂我們講的這種廣告式的詐騙那麼他一見就可以立刻把他拉下來那麼這個當然就可以有比較快的效率\n\n10:35.502 --> 11:01.205\n報告委員的確沒錯這個整個過程中也就是說尤其特別講的是Meta因為被我們要求結果產生更強硬的自律的措施這裡面包括社群守則的確是有需要精進的空間所以剛剛講的很多間的下架是它內部自律的結果那我想我們會再跟Meta再去溝通它的確這個所謂的社群守則在判斷這個所謂的詐騙廣告的時候\n\n11:02.997 --> 11:16.043\n需要更精準這個我們會繼續再跟Meta努力但是很多下架並不是我們數碼部通知的就是他們自律用社群守則去下架這個需要再精進這個我們再會去跟Meta再來討論\n\n11:17.213 --> 11:39.475\n好那麼接下來呢我要看下一張就是剛剛提到的兩個重點第一個是手段多樣那麼如何讓民眾更知道多樣的手段那麼通報的方式當然要多元再來當然就是有關於虛擬貨幣現在是不是虛擬的服務商虛擬貨幣的服務商成為洗錢的這樣的一個管道當你一旦\n\n11:40.015 --> 12:08.125\n放進了虛擬貨幣的平台之後可能就真的再也來無影去無蹤因為我們都知道這個所謂在網路上面一旦錢洗出去之後要追都追不回來只能用事後的方式來補強除了我知道其實今天早上已經有非常多的委員在詢問有關於就是我們的虛擬資產的法律到底什麼時候可以真的送到立法院因為我們已經過了預告期了\n\n12:09.005 --> 12:29.386\n那現在大家非常要知道的是行政院在這個部分在金管會在這個部分裡面到底怎麼樣來看這個把關的部分是跟委員說明一下我們在那個這個虛擬資產服務法草案我們在列為27號送進行政院而且很快的行政院那個劉靜清是政委已經做過審查\n\n12:30.987 --> 12:50.252\n持續在審查中因為這個條文是一個全新的而且非常複雜比如這裡面還有涉及到現在全世界都在關注的穩定幣這部分大家都非常的關注我們在送出來之前也已經開過超過20場的公聽會其實也整合了蠻多的意見我想這個應該會盡速來在行政院討論完畢然後送到行政院來\n\n12:50.731 --> 13:14.207\n好因為其實現在缺的就是一個法源我當然知道就是現在許多我們的相關的這個虛擬的貨幣的服務商喔他們其實是很配合的不論他們有沒有在台灣落地他們都很願意配合相關的單位來進行打詐的協助但是有沒有法源是非常的重要如果說今天明明知道這個賬戶有問題\n\n13:15.908 --> 13:30.986\n但是沒有法源可以立即來做阻斷那麼我們只能變成事後後續來把錢追回來但是放上了網路一切斷鏈之後前後追查不到那麼很難錢會追回來\n\n13:31.807 --> 13:46.360\n所以對於所謂的很快到底要有多快速度上面院長有沒有一個想法跟宣示因為我們都知道虛擬資產的服務商他們多數是跟銀行端確實是有建立一定的聯絡的管道\n\n13:46.880 --> 14:07.376\n但是如果說今天我們在法規上能夠更健全當我們知道這一筆錢送進了虛擬資產服務平台的時候他就是有憑有據不是來路不明甚至於就是客戶自己的自有的資金那麼可以提供這樣的所謂的KYC的時候\n\n14:07.836 --> 14:35.903\n那麼當然我們就可以更杜絕所謂剛剛我前面提到的透過這樣的一個虛擬資產虛擬幣把錢洗出去所以法的重要性是來自於不只對於這些服務商提供他們一定的法源的監控是他們跟這些金融機構之間彼此的連結也有一個法源的根據我對於台灣的金融機構在我們金管會的金融監督底下他們包括今年\n\n14:37.063 --> 14:58.044\n前幾個月這個所謂警示帳戶都慢慢逐漸在減少因為對於金融機構來講他們的警示帳戶超過一定的比例他們會收到金管會相關的這個詢問甚至於懲處所以他們是非常非常仔細跟小心的可是聯絡到所以我們的\n\n14:59.285 --> 15:25.353\n虛擬幣的服務提供商的時候可能中間就會有一個斷鏈的bug這個也是現在詐騙集團找到可以鑽漏洞的巧門所以我才會認為這個法規必須要加緊腳步剛剛主委說六月底已經呈報到院六月底呈報到院我認為如果內容完整而且非常的充實可用為了趕快我們在下會期是不是可以把它送出來\n\n15:31.888 --> 15:32.733\n好謝謝林楚瑩委員質詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.761,"end":7.923,"text":"謝謝主席主席有請卓院長麻煩再請卓院長備詢數位部黃部長數位部備詢議員好"},{"start":21.79,"end":40.695,"text":"院長辛苦了其實從今天早上我在這裡聆聽您的報告的時候我就非常注意到首先當然我必須講只要有任何一件詐騙的存在人民就不會滿意但是呢詐騙這個部分我想詐騙集團他其實就是絞盡腦汁要"},{"start":43.216,"end":57.291,"text":"從人民或者是受害者的身上拿到最多的金錢上面的利益所以他也會絞盡腦汁那麼對整個行政團隊來講確實是非常非常大的嚴苛考驗跟挑戰"},{"start":58.132,"end":78.678,"text":"今天我們針對這個新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0的執行成效請您跟相關的部會來做報告也一整天了那我必須講這個行動的打擊的2.0的綱領是去年11月底也就是11月28號才開始"},{"start":80.879,"end":102.649,"text":"那麼說實在的根本都還沒滿一年如果我們用月來推算現在大概就是滿八個月而已其實現在在這個時間點所有防詐的各個相關部會坐在這裡是不是現在馬上就必須要來做檢討其實本席是存疑的因為坦白說立法院在這個時候他並不是會議的期間"},{"start":103.709,"end":121.041,"text":"但是因為民眾黨提案要研會民眾黨也提案說要來做這個報告那麼我們當然也就予以尊重但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場目前有一位啦那其他的民眾黨的委員呢有人早上黨首席還去車隊掃街了"},{"start":122.742,"end":148.033,"text":"所以我認為我希望真正關心這個議題的就不要作秀真的好好的認真來關心這個題目那麼我們一起來解決民眾的問題首先開始之前本席先來念一個最新的報導上面提到的就是道高一尺 謀高一丈打詐2.0我們真的要加把勁根據行政院的官員說今年的詐騙期短有兩種改變了"},{"start":150.029,"end":178.98,"text":"第一個是詐騙的金額沒有變少一樣喔但是案件數變多了可見詐騙集團很狡猾他的作案動作越來越多那麼剛剛前面有委員一直提到的就是打詐的樣態當越來越多的時候我們到底要如何讓人民知道第二個當然等一下我也會就叫金管會的彭主委就是現在的洗錢流程變短了那麼"},{"start":179.72,"end":206.793,"text":"過去可能要有五個步驟要有超過三個金融機構以上但現在通常就是兩個步驟一下子經過一個金融機構就洗到了加密貨幣然後來無影去無蹤我想先就第一個就是詐騙的樣態變多本席想請問一下部長手機裡面有沒有下載一個叫做打詐通報平台系統"},{"start":208.208,"end":236.85,"text":"部長你有下載這個平台系統嗎委員講的是我們自己有一個網路有一個APP部長你有下載嗎有下載其實剛剛前面葛如君委員在問的就是這個包括這個通報的系統到底怎麼樣的操作其實本席有下載但是你知道這個通報系統有多少人知道有多少人在使用嗎我們來看下一張"},{"start":238.742,"end":258.537,"text":"這個通報系統5月15號上線到現在截至8月11號有19522位民眾下載那麼有3300剛好3838人使用這個APP來做案件的通報但是如果以Google Play平台上每個月"},{"start":259.741,"end":274.933,"text":"下載的流量有61萬件來講那麼我就請問部長你覺得這個使用量高嗎我們需要我們當然希望更高那我們也需要做一些宣傳這個我想我們可以再繼續努力"},{"start":275.835,"end":297.235,"text":"現在就是說很多民眾下載之後他們很熱心通報所以我們通報的案件有現在到溫佈縣至少超過25萬件然後裡面有發現14萬件以上是詐騙廣告所以讓我們能夠去下架這14萬多件的詐騙廣告所以雖然說參與的下載不多但是"},{"start":297.815,"end":307.066,"text":"這些民眾的熱情通報確實讓我們下架很多詐騙廣告但是我們會繼續努力讓更多人能夠去利用這樣的一個APP來協助政府打詐"},{"start":307.881,"end":328.183,"text":"坦白說本席是因為要質詢所以才去做了功課然後我才下載知道的人可以說是非常的少但是既然五月份到現在我們就已經上架但是使用量卻非常低其實它有一個功能是很好用的我們乾脆就藉由今天現在這個質詢的機會來告訴大家"},{"start":330.285,"end":350.998,"text":"就是當你發現任何一個平台上面有任何一個廣告任何一個社群你覺得有問題你只要複製貼上就可以通報而且在通報的過程中他會告訴你現在通報的狀況比如說本席現在看到放在最上面的一個是"},{"start":352.278,"end":375.015,"text":"蔡鴻圖的粉絲專頁還有國泰清控董事長他的粉絲專頁被通報了但是呢我點進去看之後他其實還在跟本人確認中所以這個也就是剛剛委員們槌尋這味道的就是說這是不是放進去之後到底能不能獲得證實"},{"start":377.708,"end":382.366,"text":"我看到的這個是我點進去看了8月15號就通報了"},{"start":384.079,"end":408.464,"text":"那8月15號也就是今天嘛那早上通報了之後那麼到了下午之後有沒有任何新的進展不知道但是也許現在我們諮詢的傳播出去了本人會趕快來確認這是不是真的那我覺得這樣的一個通報系統他是結合了跟平台的合作跟金管會跟財政部跟所有的社群"},{"start":409.244,"end":431.387,"text":"包括在我們的打炸相關的部會當中他都有做一個連結大家會知道這個資訊我覺得是一件好事但問題現在就在這裡宣傳不夠民眾不知道那麼就形同虛設到底我們要如何增強宣傳我們大家也知道巧婦難為無米之炊啦現在"},{"start":432.448,"end":461.031,"text":"數位部到底有沒有打算要做宣傳當然本席也可以幫忙找出數據包括之前數位部因為宣傳費用這個通院刪減60%然後宣傳提案又刪了50%所以你們到底還剩下多少的宣傳那這個部分到底有沒有安排宣傳還是你就是把它上架在Google的App Store跟這個Apple的App Store然後其他你就沒有再管它"},{"start":462.345,"end":482.285,"text":"委員其實講到一個重點就是因為經費被大刪的結果我們現在所有經費都拿去發展因為這個APL包括我們要發展AI的技術去做這個掃描所以的確在宣傳經費上是幾乎沒有但是我想以後我們會在有限資源之下我們會盡量去做宣傳"},{"start":484.423,"end":510.836,"text":"這個基本上 院長我覺得這個通報系統我自己下載了之後我覺得有它的必要存在性但是剛剛前面的委員也在質詢就是是不是讓平台擁有太多的下架權力但是這個就是這樣當初我們在自訂有關於打炸專法的時候求的是快 求的是效率求的是第一時間的阻斷"},{"start":512.335,"end":532.993,"text":"但是現在呢又過來變成是有人來跟你澄清說哎呀我是正宮結果我的真正的粉絲被阻擋了是不是平台把我屬於我本人真正的認證的粉絲團反而被下架了我要上傳我的東西的時候反而我被阻攔了"},{"start":533.473,"end":545.805,"text":"所以在快速跟正確性之間到底有沒有一個平衡包括剛剛我講的這個通報的平台有沒有bug還是說其實在這個中間真的缺少了一個守門員"},{"start":548.323,"end":569.458,"text":"剛剛從委員那個案例當中就知道他確實有經過一段時間的查和審查那審查的過程當中本人也應該積極的來配合告訴大家說我這個是名符其實的那這個就會安全了那如果他真的是碰到一個假的他大概不敢出面我們就會把他做下一步的處置"},{"start":570.419,"end":593.802,"text":"那這個也是當初速發部在設計這個通報平台當中花了很長時間一直在我們內部的會議一直在反覆的使用我們非常謹慎一定要他能夠達到真實這個目的才出來的談了很多次我發覺都不如今天委員在這裡講的這一次所以您今天應該我們可以請委員當我們的代言人"},{"start":594.795,"end":617.609,"text":"我是真的覺得這個東西五月底上線到現在知道的人太少然後再來就是驗證的速度是不是夠快尤其是像粉絲團或者是Instagram或者是其他這個所謂的社群平台上面的這種所謂個人的粉絲團需要驗證確實需要花一點時間能不能有更多快速的綠色通道那這個就請"},{"start":618.53,"end":633.675,"text":"行政院這裡跟數位部這裡來做一個跟平台更快速的溝通那麼至於如果是所謂我們講的這種廣告式的詐騙那麼他一見就可以立刻把他拉下來那麼這個當然就可以有比較快的效率"},{"start":635.502,"end":661.205,"text":"報告委員的確沒錯這個整個過程中也就是說尤其特別講的是Meta因為被我們要求結果產生更強硬的自律的措施這裡面包括社群守則的確是有需要精進的空間所以剛剛講的很多間的下架是它內部自律的結果那我想我們會再跟Meta再去溝通它的確這個所謂的社群守則在判斷這個所謂的詐騙廣告的時候"},{"start":662.997,"end":676.043,"text":"需要更精準這個我們會繼續再跟Meta努力但是很多下架並不是我們數碼部通知的就是他們自律用社群守則去下架這個需要再精進這個我們再會去跟Meta再來討論"},{"start":677.213,"end":699.475,"text":"好那麼接下來呢我要看下一張就是剛剛提到的兩個重點第一個是手段多樣那麼如何讓民眾更知道多樣的手段那麼通報的方式當然要多元再來當然就是有關於虛擬貨幣現在是不是虛擬的服務商虛擬貨幣的服務商成為洗錢的這樣的一個管道當你一旦"},{"start":700.015,"end":728.125,"text":"放進了虛擬貨幣的平台之後可能就真的再也來無影去無蹤因為我們都知道這個所謂在網路上面一旦錢洗出去之後要追都追不回來只能用事後的方式來補強除了我知道其實今天早上已經有非常多的委員在詢問有關於就是我們的虛擬資產的法律到底什麼時候可以真的送到立法院因為我們已經過了預告期了"},{"start":729.005,"end":749.386,"text":"那現在大家非常要知道的是行政院在這個部分在金管會在這個部分裡面到底怎麼樣來看這個把關的部分是跟委員說明一下我們在那個這個虛擬資產服務法草案我們在列為27號送進行政院而且很快的行政院那個劉靜清是政委已經做過審查"},{"start":750.987,"end":770.252,"text":"持續在審查中因為這個條文是一個全新的而且非常複雜比如這裡面還有涉及到現在全世界都在關注的穩定幣這部分大家都非常的關注我們在送出來之前也已經開過超過20場的公聽會其實也整合了蠻多的意見我想這個應該會盡速來在行政院討論完畢然後送到行政院來"},{"start":770.731,"end":794.207,"text":"好因為其實現在缺的就是一個法源我當然知道就是現在許多我們的相關的這個虛擬的貨幣的服務商喔他們其實是很配合的不論他們有沒有在台灣落地他們都很願意配合相關的單位來進行打詐的協助但是有沒有法源是非常的重要如果說今天明明知道這個賬戶有問題"},{"start":795.908,"end":810.986,"text":"但是沒有法源可以立即來做阻斷那麼我們只能變成事後後續來把錢追回來但是放上了網路一切斷鏈之後前後追查不到那麼很難錢會追回來"},{"start":811.807,"end":826.36,"text":"所以對於所謂的很快到底要有多快速度上面院長有沒有一個想法跟宣示因為我們都知道虛擬資產的服務商他們多數是跟銀行端確實是有建立一定的聯絡的管道"},{"start":826.88,"end":847.376,"text":"但是如果說今天我們在法規上能夠更健全當我們知道這一筆錢送進了虛擬資產服務平台的時候他就是有憑有據不是來路不明甚至於就是客戶自己的自有的資金那麼可以提供這樣的所謂的KYC的時候"},{"start":847.836,"end":875.903,"text":"那麼當然我們就可以更杜絕所謂剛剛我前面提到的透過這樣的一個虛擬資產虛擬幣把錢洗出去所以法的重要性是來自於不只對於這些服務商提供他們一定的法源的監控是他們跟這些金融機構之間彼此的連結也有一個法源的根據我對於台灣的金融機構在我們金管會的金融監督底下他們包括今年"},{"start":877.063,"end":898.044,"text":"前幾個月這個所謂警示帳戶都慢慢逐漸在減少因為對於金融機構來講他們的警示帳戶超過一定的比例他們會收到金管會相關的這個詢問甚至於懲處所以他們是非常非常仔細跟小心的可是聯絡到所以我們的"},{"start":899.285,"end":925.353,"text":"虛擬幣的服務提供商的時候可能中間就會有一個斷鏈的bug這個也是現在詐騙集團找到可以鑽漏洞的巧門所以我才會認為這個法規必須要加緊腳步剛剛主委說六月底已經呈報到院六月底呈報到院我認為如果內容完整而且非常的充實可用為了趕快我們在下會期是不是可以把它送出來"},{"start":931.888,"end":932.733,"text":"好 謝謝林楚瑩委員質詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":672,"blocks":[["林委員楚茵：（17時23分）謝謝主席。主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["林委員楚茵：請數位部黃部長。"],["主席：請數位部備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：林委員好。"],["林委員楚茵：院長辛苦了。今天早上我在這裡聆聽您報告時我就注意到，首先我必須講，只要有任何一件詐騙案存在，人民就不會滿意。對於詐騙，我想詐騙集團其實就是要從人民或受害者身上拿到最多的金錢與利益，所以會絞盡腦汁。這對整個行政團隊來講，確實是非常、非常大的嚴格考驗跟挑戰。","今天我們針對新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效請您跟相關部會來做報告，也一整天了。我必須講，行動綱領2.0是在去年11月底，也就是11月28日才開始，說實在的，根本還沒滿一年。如果用月來推算，到現在大概就是滿八個月而已。在現在這個時間點，所有防詐的各相關部會首長都坐在這裡，是不是現在馬上就必須來做檢討？這點本席是存疑的。坦白說，這時候並不是立法院的會議期間，但因為民眾黨提案延會，也提案要來做報告，我們當然也就予以尊重，但是到底有多少民眾黨的委員在現場？目前有一位，其他的民眾黨委員呢？早上黨主席還去車隊掃街了！所以我認為、我希望真正關心這個議題的人就不要作秀，真的好好的、認真來關心這個題目，我們一起來解決民眾的問題。","首先開始之前，本席先來唸一個最新的報導，上面提到的就是「道高一尺、魔高一丈！打詐2.0繼續加把勁」。根據行政院的官員表示，今年詐騙集團有兩種改變，第一個是詐騙的金額沒有變少，一樣喔，但是案件數變多了，可見詐騙集團很狡猾，他們的做案動作越來越多。剛剛前面也有委員一直提到，就是當打詐的樣態越來越多的時候，我們到底要如何讓人民知道？第二個，等一下我也會就教金管會的彭主委，就是現在的洗錢流程變短了，過去可能要有五個步驟、要超過三個金融機構以上，但現在通常就是二個步驟，一下子經過一個金融機構就洗到了加密貨幣，然後來無影去無蹤。我想先就第一個改變，也就是詐騙樣態變多了的部分提問，本席想請問部長，你的手機裡面有沒有下載一個打詐通報平臺系統？部長，你有下載這個平臺系統嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：委員講的是我們自己有一個網路詐騙通報查詢網……"],["林委員楚茵：有一個app，部長，你有下載嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：有，當然有。"],["林委員楚茵：有下載，其實剛剛前面葛如鈞委員在問的就是這個，包括通報的系統到底怎麼樣操作，其實本席有下載，但是你知道這個通報系統有多少人知道、有多少人在使用嗎？我們來看下一張，這個通報系統從5月15號上線到現在，截至8月11號有1萬9,522位民眾下載，有3,838人使用這個app來做案件的通報，但是如果以Google Play平臺上每個月下載的流量有61萬件來講，請問部長，你覺得這個使用量高嗎？"],["黃部長彥男：我們當然希望更高，我們也需要多做一些宣傳，這個我想我們可以再繼續努力。現在就是很多民眾下載了之後，他們很熱心通報，所以我們通報的案件到目前至少超過25萬件，然後發現裡面有14萬件以上是詐騙廣告，讓我們能夠去下架這十四萬多件的詐騙廣告。所以雖然說參與、下載的人不多，但是這些民眾的熱情通報，確實讓我們下架很多詐騙廣告，不過我們會繼續努力，讓更多人能夠去利用這樣的app來協助政府打詐。"],["林委員楚茵：坦白說，本席是因為要質詢，所以才去做了功課，然後我才下載，知道的人可以說是非常的少，你們5月份就已經上架，但是使用量卻非常低，其實它有一個功能是很好用的，我們乾脆就藉由今天現在這個質詢的機會來告訴大家，就是當你發現任何一個平臺上面有任何一個廣告、任何一個社群，你覺得有問題的話，你只要複製貼上就可以通報，而且在通報的過程中，它會告訴你現在通報的狀況。比如說，本席現在看到在最上面的一個是蔡宏圖的粉絲專頁，就是國泰金控董事長的粉絲專頁被通報了，但是我點進去看之後發現現在的狀況其實還在跟本人確認中，所以這也就是剛剛委員們垂詢時問到的，也就是這個放進去之後到底能不能獲得證實？我看到的這個，我點進去看是8月15日就通報的，8月15號也就是今天，早上通報了之後，到了下午有沒有任何新的進展不知道，但是也許現在我們質詢了、傳播出去了，他本人會趕快來確認這是不是真的，我覺得這樣的通報系統它是結合了跟平臺的合作，跟金管會、財政部及所有的社群，包括打詐相關部會都有做一個連結，大家會知道這個資訊，我覺得這是一件好事，但現在問題就在這裡，宣傳不夠、民眾不知道，那麼就形同虛設，到底我們要如何增強宣傳？我們當然也知道巧婦難為無米之炊啦，現在數位部到底有沒有打算要做宣傳？當然本席也可以幫忙找出數據，包括之前數位部因為宣傳費用被通案刪減60%，然後宣傳提案又刪了50%，你們到底還剩下多少的宣傳費？這個部分到底有沒有安排宣傳？還是你就是把它上架在Google的App Store跟Apple的App Store，然後其他的就沒有在管了？"],["黃部長彥男：委員其實講到一個重點，就是因為經費被大刪的結果，我們現在所有的經費都拿去發展，因為這個app也包括我們要發展AI的技術去做掃描，所以的確在宣傳經費上是幾乎沒有，但是我想以後我們會在有限的資源之下儘量去做宣傳。"],["林委員楚茵：好。院長，基本上，這個通報系統，我自己下載了之後是覺得有它的必要存在性，但是剛剛前面的委員質詢時也提到，是不是讓平臺擁有太多的下架權利？但是這個就是這樣，當初我們在制定有關於打詐專法的時候，求的是快、求的是效率、求的是第一時間的阻斷……"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["林委員楚茵：但是現在又變成是有人來向你陳情說：哎呀，我是正宮，結果我的粉絲被阻擋了，是不是平臺把屬於我本人真正認證的粉絲團反而被下架了，我要上傳東西的時候反而被阻攔了？所以在快速跟正確性之間，到底有沒有一個平衡？包括剛剛我講的這個通報平臺有沒有bug？還是說其實在這個中間真的缺少了一個守門員？"],["卓院長榮泰：從委員剛剛那個案例當中就知道，它確實有經過一段時間的查核、審查，在審查的過程當中，本人也應該積極來配合告訴大家我這個是名符其實的，這個就會安全了。如果真的是碰到一個假的，大概也不敢出面，我們就會做下一步的處置。這個也是當初數發部在設計這個通報平臺時花了很長的時間，在我們內部的會議一直在反覆的使用，我們非常謹慎，一定要能夠達到真實這個目的才出來，談了很多次，我發覺都不如今天委員在這裡講的這一次，所以我們應該可以請委員當我們的代言人。"],["林委員楚茵：我是真的覺得這個東西5月底上線到現在，知道的人太少，再來就是驗證的速度是不是夠快？尤其是像粉絲團、Instagram或者是其他所謂社群平臺上面的個人粉絲團，因為驗證確實需要花一點時間，能不能有更多快速的綠色通道，就請行政院跟數位部去跟平臺做更快速的溝通。","至於如果是所謂我們講的這種廣告式的詐騙，那麼它一鍵就可以立刻把它拉下來，當然就可以有比較快的效率。"],["黃部長彥男：報告委員，的確沒錯，在這整個過程中，尤其特別講的是Meta，因為被我們要求，結果它產生更強硬的自律措施，這裡面包括社群守則的確是有需要精進的空間，所以剛剛講到很多件的下架，事實上是它內部自律的結果，我想我們會再跟Meta去做溝通，的確這個所謂的社群守則在判斷所謂詐騙廣告的時候需要更精準，我們跟Meta會再去努力，但是很多的下架並不是我們數發部通知的，而是他們自律的用社群守則去下架的，這個需要再精進，我們跟Meta會再去做討論。"],["林委員楚茵：好，接下來我們來看下一張，就是剛剛提到的兩個重點，第一個是手段多樣，如何讓民眾知道更多樣的手段，通報的方式當然要多元。再來當然就是有關於虛擬貨幣，現在是不是虛擬貨幣的服務商成為洗錢的一個管道？當你一旦放進了虛擬貨幣的平臺之後，可能就真的再也來無影去無蹤，因為我們都知道，在網路上面一旦錢洗出去之後，要追都追不回來，只能用事後的方式來補強。","主委，我知道其實今天早上已經有非常多委員在詢問，我們虛擬資產的法律到底什麼時候可以真的送到立法院，因為已經過了預告期了。現在大家非常想要知道的是，行政院在這個部分、金管會在這個部分，到底怎麼樣來看把關的部分？"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。跟委員說明一下，虛擬資產服務法草案我們在6月27號送進行政院，而且很快的行政院劉鏡清政委已經持續在審查中，因為這個法案是全新的而且非常複雜，比如這裡面還有涉及到現在全世界都在關注的穩定幣，這一部分大家都非常關注。我們在送出來之前也已經開了超過20場的公聽會，也整合了滿多的意見，我想這個法案應該會儘速在行政院討論完畢，然後送到立法院來。"],["林委員楚茵：好，因為現在缺的就是法源。我當然知道，現在許多相關的虛擬貨幣服務商其實是很配合的，不論他們有沒有在臺灣落地，他們都很願意配合來協助相關單位打詐，但是有沒有法源非常的重要。如果今天明明知道這個帳戶有問題，但是沒有法源可以立即來做阻斷，我們只能變成事後後續來把錢追回來。但是放上了網路一切斷鏈之後，前後追查不到，那就很難把錢追回來。所以，對於所謂的「很快」到底有多快，速度上面院長有沒有一個想法跟宣示？","我們都知道，虛擬資產服務商他們多數跟銀行端確實有建立一定的聯絡管道，但是如果今天我們在法規上能夠更健全，當我們知道這一筆錢送進了虛擬資產服務平臺的時候，他是有憑有據，不是來路不明，甚至於是客戶自己的自有資金，可以提供所謂的KYC的時候，當然我們就可以更杜絕，如剛剛我前面提到的，透過這樣的虛擬資產、虛擬幣把錢洗出去。所以，法的重要性是來自於，不只為政府對這些服務商的監控提供一定的法源，更是他們跟金融機構之間彼此的連結也有一個法源根據。","臺灣的金融機構在我們金管會的金融監督底下，他們在今年前幾個月所謂的警示帳戶都慢慢逐漸在減少，因為對於金融機構來講，他們的警示帳戶超過一定的比例，他們會收到金管會相關的詢問甚至於懲處，所以他們是非常非常仔細跟小心的。可是連結到我們所謂的虛擬貨幣服務提供商的時候，可能中間就會有一個斷鏈的bug，這個也是現在詐騙集團找到可以鑽漏洞的巧門，所以我才會認為這個法規必須要加緊腳步。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛主委說6月底已經呈報到院了……"],["彭主任委員金隆：6月底就送件了。"],["林委員楚茵：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：6月底呈報到院，我認為如果內容完整，而且非常的充實可用，為了趕快，我們在下會期是不是可以把它送出來，但是一定要起到可以管制的作用，我們會要求這個目的。"],["林委員楚茵：好，謝謝，下會期喔。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員當我們的代言人。"],["主席：謝謝林楚茵委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長的備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，接下來最後一位登記的是陳冠廷委員。我們非常感謝台灣民眾黨團唯一的，從下午坐到現在的劉書彬委員，從頭到尾，非常感謝。","我們請陳冠廷委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","傅崐萁","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","羅智強","劉書彬","王義川","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","張智倫","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","賴士葆","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","黃健豪","陳亭妃","葛如鈞","林楚茵","陳冠廷"],"page_start":115,"meetingDate":["2025-08-15"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00002","1147101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00004"}}}