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{\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 505.575, \"end\": 505.795, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 505.795, \"end\": 505.915, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 505.915, \"end\": 506.275, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 506.275, \"end\": 506.395, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 506.395, \"end\": 506.415, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 507.496, \"end\": 522.393, \"text\": \"這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的這個銀行體制有做出一些 也頗有微詞啊比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 507.496, \"end\": 507.637, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 507.637, \"end\": 507.717, \"score\": 0.759}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 507.717, \"end\": 507.957, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 507.957, \"end\": 508.337, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 508.337, \"end\": 508.517, 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{\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"居\", \"start\": 518.228, \"end\": 518.388, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"留\", \"start\": 518.388, \"end\": 518.588, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 518.588, \"end\": 518.809, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 518.809, \"end\": 519.069, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"移\", \"start\": 519.069, \"end\": 519.269, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 519.269, \"end\": 520.47, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"銀\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 520.47, \"end\": 520.851, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"與\"}, {\"word\": \"保\", \"start\": 520.851, \"end\": 521.231, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 521.231, \"end\": 521.412, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"司\", \"start\": 521.412, \"end\": 521.552, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 521.552, \"end\": 521.852, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"度\", \"start\": 521.852, \"end\": 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681.93, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 681.93, \"end\": 682.071, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 682.071, \"end\": 682.211, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 682.211, \"end\": 682.691, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 682.691, \"end\": 683.191, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"數\"}, {\"word\": \"據\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 683.191, \"end\": 683.331, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 683.331, \"end\": 683.411, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 683.411, \"end\": 683.551, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 683.551, \"end\": 683.651, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 683.651, \"end\": 683.831, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 683.831, \"end\": 684.151, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 684.151, \"end\": 684.731, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 684.731, \"end\": 684.871, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 684.871, \"end\": 685.451, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 685.451, \"end\": 685.511, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 685.511, \"end\": 685.772, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 685.772, \"end\": 685.852, \"score\": 0.756}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 685.852, \"end\": 685.872, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"趨\"}, {\"word\": \"勢\"}, {\"word\": \"線\"}]}, {\"start\": 687.762, \"end\": 714.556, \"text\": \"院長 行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月 4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 687.762, \"end\": 688.482, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 688.482, \"end\": 688.582, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 688.582, \"end\": 688.683, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 688.683, \"end\": 688.823, 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{\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 707.313, \"end\": 707.453, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 707.453, \"end\": 707.713, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"告\", \"start\": 707.713, \"end\": 707.873, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 707.873, \"end\": 707.973, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"供\", \"start\": 707.973, \"end\": 708.153, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 708.153, \"end\": 708.293, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"析\", \"start\": 708.293, \"end\": 708.393, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 708.393, \"end\": 708.613, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 708.613, \"end\": 708.713, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 708.713, \"end\": 709.314, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 709.314, \"end\": 709.494, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 709.494, \"end\": 709.694, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 709.694, \"end\": 710.034, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 710.034, \"end\": 710.214, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"點\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 710.214, \"end\": 710.914, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 710.914, \"end\": 711.035, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 711.035, \"end\": 711.375, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 711.375, \"end\": 711.595, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"4\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 711.595, \"end\": 711.695, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 711.695, \"end\": 711.935, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 711.935, \"end\": 712.115, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 712.115, \"end\": 712.255, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 712.255, \"end\": 712.515, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 712.515, \"end\": 712.635, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 712.635, \"end\": 712.775, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 712.775, \"end\": 713.276, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"較\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 713.276, \"end\": 713.576, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 713.576, \"end\": 713.656, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 713.656, \"end\": 713.776, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 713.776, \"end\": 713.896, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 713.896, \"end\": 714.016, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 714.016, \"end\": 714.236, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 714.236, \"end\": 714.376, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 714.376, \"end\": 714.536, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 714.536, \"end\": 714.556, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"較\"}]}, {\"start\": 715.817, \"end\": 742.752, \"text\": \"對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 715.817, \"end\": 716.758, \"score\": 0.85}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 716.758, \"end\": 716.898, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 716.898, \"end\": 716.998, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 716.998, \"end\": 717.078, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 717.078, \"end\": 717.678, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 717.678, \"end\": 717.798, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 717.798, \"end\": 717.898, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 717.898, \"end\": 718.038, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 718.038, 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\"start\": 805.871, \"end\": 805.991, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 805.991, \"end\": 806.092, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"做\", \"start\": 806.092, \"end\": 806.252, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 806.252, \"end\": 806.672, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 806.672, \"end\": 806.892, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 806.892, \"end\": 807.052, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 807.052, \"end\": 807.313, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 807.313, \"end\": 807.433, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"形\", \"start\": 807.433, \"end\": 807.573, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 807.573, \"end\": 807.933, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"反\", \"start\": 807.933, \"end\": 808.033, \"score\": 0.813}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 808.033, \"end\": 808.154, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"造\", \"start\": 808.154, \"end\": 808.354, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"成\", \"start\": 808.354, \"end\": 808.474, \"score\": 0.853}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 808.474, \"end\": 808.554, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 808.554, \"end\": 809.215, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"守\", \"start\": 809.215, \"end\": 809.415, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 809.415, \"end\": 809.555, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 809.555, \"end\": 809.655, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 809.655, \"end\": 810.055, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"眾\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 810.055, \"end\": 810.195, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 810.195, \"end\": 810.416, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"便\", \"start\": 810.416, \"end\": 810.436, \"score\": 0.011}]}, {\"start\": 812.745, \"end\": 828.412, \"text\": \"我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會精準的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 812.745, \"end\": 813.625, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"並\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 813.625, \"end\": 813.705, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 813.705, \"end\": 813.845, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 813.845, \"end\": 814.146, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"求\", \"start\": 814.146, \"end\": 814.366, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 814.366, \"end\": 814.586, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 814.586, \"end\": 814.926, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 814.926, \"end\": 815.246, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"或\", \"start\": 815.246, \"end\": 815.366, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 815.366, \"end\": 815.486, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 815.486, \"end\": 815.606, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"特\", \"start\": 815.606, \"end\": 815.726, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 815.726, \"end\": 816.066, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"調\"}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 816.066, \"end\": 816.226, \"score\": 0.926}, {\"word\": \"而\", 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\"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 819.648, \"end\": 819.968, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 819.968, \"end\": 820.128, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 820.128, \"end\": 820.288, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 820.288, \"end\": 820.508, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 820.508, \"end\": 821.109, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 821.109, \"end\": 821.969, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"態\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 821.969, \"end\": 822.089, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 822.089, \"end\": 822.269, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"比\", \"start\": 822.269, \"end\": 822.329, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 822.329, \"end\": 822.589, \"score\": 0.849}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 822.589, \"end\": 822.809, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 822.809, \"end\": 822.969, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"準\", \"start\": 822.969, \"end\": 823.109, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 823.109, \"end\": 824.09, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"風\"}, {\"word\": \"險\"}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 824.09, \"end\": 824.29, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"控\", \"start\": 824.29, \"end\": 824.69, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 824.69, \"end\": 824.87, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"又\", \"start\": 824.87, \"end\": 825.01, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"導\"}, {\"word\": \"入\", \"start\": 825.01, \"end\": 825.11, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 825.11, \"end\": 825.37, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"戶\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 825.37, \"end\": 825.671, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 825.671, \"end\": 825.771, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 825.771, \"end\": 826.011, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 826.011, \"end\": 826.731, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 826.731, \"end\": 827.231, \"score\": 0.974}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 827.231, \"end\": 827.371, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 827.371, \"end\": 827.771, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"識\"}, {\"word\": \"別\", \"start\": 827.771, \"end\": 828.072, \"score\": 0.866}, {\"word\": \"異\"}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 828.072, \"end\": 828.232, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 828.232, \"end\": 828.392, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 828.392, \"end\": 828.412, \"score\": 0.439}, {\"word\": \"臉\"}]}, {\"start\": 829.292, \"end\": 853.988, \"text\": \"那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 829.292, \"end\": 829.412, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 829.412, \"end\": 829.572, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 829.572, \"end\": 830.153, 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\"score\": 0.501}, {\"word\": \"權\"}, {\"word\": \"益\", \"start\": 930.285, \"end\": 930.405, \"score\": 0.829}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 930.405, \"end\": 930.425, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 947.347, \"end\": 947.367, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:14,124 --> 00:00:28,463\n你好我們請院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選陳委員好院長好\n\n2\n00:00:29,690 --> 00:00:57,899\n院長我們看今天的報告那裡面有提到各種的詐騙的形式那其中投資詐騙它也是一個主要的原因那投資詐騙裡面我認為說除了詐騙集團他們的這個各種的方式之外其實源自於不了解投資的這個標的物那特別是我們剛才很多委員都提到虛擬貨幣也好或者是穩定幣也就是說我們現在這個金融的防堵\n\n3\n00:00:58,499 --> 00:01:10,900\n它有一個重要的一點就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵但是在境外的合作具體的方式可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力來去進行\n\n4\n00:01:11,789 --> 00:01:40,784\n但是現在跨境洗錢過去可能是用虛擬貨幣像是比特幣來進行但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣甚至在美國也被納入他的天才法案裡面虛擬貨幣是具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性所以隱蔽性也有流通性也有有了穩定幣之後等於是說他們能夠連價值儲存的功能都具備價值甚至不會因為市場的波動而去縮水它又變成了新時代的一個洗錢的工具\n\n5\n00:01:41,963 --> 00:02:02,997\n我講這麼多的原因是因為在穩定幣雖然是號稱有基於去中心化的技術但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的這些發行商所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產的權利是有的比如說美國司法部就曾經成功的要求泰達公司凍結這個泰達幣\n\n6\n00:02:06,169 --> 00:02:26,842\n我們在未發生之前我們先做防範它的效用會更大我想請教院長我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制在黃金時間裡面例如說24小時內請求這些發行商對這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結然後之後再補足司法程序\n\n7\n00:02:28,604 --> 00:02:49,413\n是跟委員報告一下啊當然最近有關穩定幣的這樣的一個那個討論非常的多那當然剛剛委員有提到就是說我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面呢也有這一塊剛剛委員提到說我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作我想那個層面蠻多的因為\n\n8\n00:02:50,313 --> 00:03:09,394\n特別是剛剛提到這家其實在國際上面它有它很大的特色它是一個受監管比較低度的一個美國穩定幣發行商它比如現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管泰達它也想說可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管境外它還是維持這樣這個東西我們\n\n9\n00:03:11,796 --> 00:03:30,703\n當然就以犯罪增防的角度的話任何有助於這個當然可以做但是我們現在未來會有自己的穩定幣的發行還有就是說還有怎麼樣跟國際上面的這些已經發行的穩定幣做合作我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣一個討論跟合作\n\n10\n00:03:35,992 --> 00:03:59,879\n我只是把這個問題先提出來先做好準備因為過去美國的司法部有成功的案例比如說有潛力的話就可以去遵循潛力特別是在我們能夠努力的方向之一我們先做好防堵未來才可以做有效的去打擊犯罪接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部麻煩請法務部長備詢\n\n11\n00:04:09,238 --> 00:04:22,096\n部長我們想請教一下最近這幾年任何一年都沒關係因為這個榨汽罪疏於的受刑人兩年內的再犯率你覺得大概是多少\n\n12\n00:04:23,321 --> 00:04:35,954\n這部分我目前沒有數據我會後再提供我們有這個數據因為我們從法國部那邊提出來我想說你的概念上面有沒有大概是三分之一還是五分之一還是四分之一其實是23.2%這個數字那我為什麼講這個數字\n\n13\n00:04:40,698 --> 00:04:58,508\n是因為我們如果做統計的話我們做案件來去審理的話我們會看到每年都是數以萬計那個數字是很大的但是如果我們以人追案的話我們找這些有高度的再犯率的有前科的那我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案\n\n14\n00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:10,451\n一年內的再犯比例是16.7%這都是法務部的這些記錄所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有\n\n15\n00:05:12,035 --> 00:05:39,790\n這個犯罪持續案它變成是治安上面的一個頑疾所以高度再犯率它凸顯出現在的矯正教化還有出獄之後的這個追蹤體系是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用所以現在打詐的政策不斷的經濟但是預防再犯我認為這個是可以解決的因為我們擁有他的過去的犯罪的記錄我們知道他過去犯罪的手法我們有他的資料之後甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團\n\n16\n00:05:40,510 --> 00:05:56,962\n所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來去阻止這樣子的犯罪所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率所以這個是一個很重要的一個數據這個統計上面我想部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的這個經濟方案\n\n17\n00:05:59,805 --> 00:06:18,622\n我想目前的大部分的這些的詐欺犯他在整個判決確定的一個刑度大部分都集中在一年或者是到這個是車手部分如果說單純的人頭賬戶這邊都是一年以下居多\n\n18\n00:06:20,023 --> 00:06:42,473\n我想這個有它社會的一個原因我想會參加詐團一定是一個觀念偏差尤其是金錢觀的一個觀念的偏差我想在整個一個預防面的如果說有到監獄裡面我想這部分我想我們再加強再做一個教化另外在我也關心的\n\n19\n00:06:42,873 --> 00:07:09,567\n这个再犯率的问题事实上我们那个诈欺危害防治条例对这种在我们怕有这种所以在一个长期比较诈骗人多的这一种的刑度比较高的这一种我们这个在假释这部分我们新的法律是规定是三分之二出犯哦出犯三分之二那另外累犯的话是四分之三如果三犯的话就没有假释的这种的优惠\n\n20\n00:07:10,367 --> 00:07:23,174\n那我想執行刑期的一個長團與活並不代表就是說一個教化的一個成功那我想我們這個委員關心的這預防再犯這個教化這部分我們再跟矯正署我們再來做一個經濟\n\n21\n00:07:24,876 --> 00:07:46,312\n賀祖利然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字我想說有這個詐騙前科犯加上這個再犯我們這些多一點數字出來之後有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向政策工具才可以進去那另外委員關心的就是為什麼再犯因為再犯的話我想會再檢討那個言語對我們先從\n\n22\n00:07:47,473 --> 00:08:04,879\n因為我現在手上沒有炸雞犯的有前科的犯罪這幾年的波動我們知道這個之後我們就大概知道說可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄所以包含這一個全國的炸雞犯的資料庫或者是高風險的資料庫我們有沒有建制\n\n23\n00:08:05,996 --> 00:08:26,415\n這部分我們再來了解有沒有考慮堅持一下我為什麼這麼講的原因是因為你知道現在我們來思考一下就是說這應該有吧有這個可以估計出來我要講這句話的原因是說全國的這個詐欺犯的資料庫我為什麼講這件事情包含我們現在ATM有限額包含我們這個高度的銀行監管\n\n24\n00:08:27,496 --> 00:08:42,393\n這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的這個銀行體制有做出一些也頗有微詞啊比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管\n\n25\n00:08:42,893 --> 00:09:10,948\n那開設台灣銀行帳戶非常困難即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長還有這個繁瑣的流程為什麼會這樣因為我們要防堵詐欺為什麼要防堵詐欺來影響一般民眾呢這就是我們的癥結點就是說怎麼樣針對這些已經有犯罪前科的已經是再犯三犯那這些人都還持續的沒有辦法來去嚇阻他們第一個是沒辦法嚇阻第二個是沒辦法教化\n\n26\n00:09:11,368 --> 00:09:36,004\n那我們接下來的做法是什麼這個部分我想部長能夠給我們一個更好的一個說明的方式執行完畢的這些的受刑人這個就是進入到更生人的這個身份那這部分受保護管束或者是假設處於受保護管束的以及更生這部分我們再來努力再從那個柔性司法這邊我們再努力來協助他互歸社會那我想一個會介紹的可能是\n\n27\n00:09:36,864 --> 00:10:04,208\n金錢官的一個偏差或者是因為迫於他的沒有收入或者家庭的一個貧困等等那我想會檢討這個檢視他的原因因為我們在在剿證署裡面我相信也有一些的社公司心理師我想如果說對有些再犯或者出犯的再見之刑我們會試圖去了解他的為什麼要犯罪的原因我想這個在一個刑案的過程之後他會更容易去\n\n28\n00:10:05,569 --> 00:10:17,366\n去把它表達出來好我們一起找方法好不好部長好謝謝就是我們提出一個對岸來那我們有數據那我們就可以來去看數據有沒有變化那院長我們接下來就是來討論這一次的打炸的數據\n\n29\n00:10:19,026 --> 00:10:43,824\n這次的數據剛才其實院長都有提到有一些數據的調整的原因是因為警政署從113年9月起他將刑案發生的計算方式由一案一發生改為受理報案被害人一發生數所以說我剛剛看到專報上面有用圖表畫了一個回歸線他說詐騙案件是長期每月減350件\n\n30\n00:10:46,444 --> 00:11:01,676\n數字下降當然是好事但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或者是沒有對照組就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因那我們看到只有13年8月到14年7月但是如果說我們之前的數據都在的話只是因為\n\n31\n00:11:02,725 --> 00:11:25,872\n方式不同我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照因為打炸這個東西不可能一年就見效它必須要有一個數據作為一個佐證那來去告訴我們說比方說你說季節性的波動那這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳那我們要的是政策效果政策效果把它做了之後那數據上面有沒有反應出來所以這不是單一的趨勢線\n\n32\n00:11:27,762 --> 00:11:54,556\n院長行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較\n\n33\n00:11:55,817 --> 00:12:22,752\n對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件\n\n34\n00:12:25,853 --> 00:12:52,087\n這個東西到底是有沒有辦法嚇阻這個炸雞飯剛才有很多的討論說之後司法院跟法務部討論之後很快的可能會有調整等等沒有關係我們都是希望有調整但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果我們就要用數據來去佐證我想這些都是今天講的目的接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理來去降低\n\n35\n00:12:54,529 --> 00:13:06,623\n炸機阻斷上次打炸中心的執密有提到調降ATM的限額沒關係我們打炸中心的代表都可以\n\n36\n00:13:08,615 --> 00:13:30,436\n有提到說調降這個限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流這個決心我們是絕對去支持的但是一個好的政策就如同我剛剛說到的不要因為防堵犯罪來去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利現在的做法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法的民眾的不便\n\n37\n00:13:32,745 --> 00:13:48,412\n我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會精準的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉\n\n38\n00:13:49,292 --> 00:14:13,988\n那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行\n\n39\n00:14:15,671 --> 00:14:39,528\n這個跟委員報告一下有關前陣子很多銀行他不是把全面停掉他對他的宿存客戶就是數位開戶的宿存客戶就是其實他是比較特別如果前陣子委員有注意到的話就對於所謂用我們自然能憑證去單憑自然能憑證去開戶的時候因為這很明顯的他比一般的賬戶這個詐騙的機率高了將近有八九倍這樣對\n\n40\n00:14:41,309 --> 00:15:05,305\n就各種不同的開戶數所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制那我馬上也跟銀行講說你不可以用去風險的經驗所以你要開始找到一個平衡以後逐步開放像剛才講的他們在九月的時候就會逐步按照這個方式來做因為突然發現說大家大量使用這樣的這個方式進行詐騙所以我們必須他們就啟動他們自發性的風險管理機制來進行那我們也\n\n41\n00:15:06,827 --> 00:15:30,425\n跟銀行提醒說不可以全面這樣來做他們也開始會按照這來做我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了現在台灣已經走向世界那我們的產業也是走向國際化那有越來越多旅台的其他國籍的人士商務人士那台灣遇到的商務問題通常就是在銀行上面的問題那我們不能為了綁賭放罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益謝謝委員這問題\n\n42\n00:15:47,347 --> 00:15:47,367\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n14124\t28463\t你好 我們請院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選陳委員好 院長好\n29690\t57899\t院長我們看今天的報告那裡面有提到各種的詐騙的形式那其中投資詐騙它也是一個主要的原因那投資詐騙裡面我認為說除了詐騙集團他們的這個各種的方式之外其實源自於不了解投資的這個標的物那特別是我們剛才很多委員都提到虛擬貨幣也好或者是穩定幣也就是說我們現在這個金融的防堵\n58499\t70900\t它有一個重要的一點就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵但是在境外的合作具體的方式可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力來去進行\n71789\t100784\t但是現在跨境洗錢過去可能是用虛擬貨幣像是比特幣來進行但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣甚至在美國也被納入他的天才法案裡面虛擬貨幣是具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性所以隱蔽性也有 流通性也有有了穩定幣之後等於是說他們能夠連價值儲存的功能都具備價值甚至不會因為市場的波動而去縮水它又變成了新時代的一個洗錢的工具\n101963\t122997\t我講這麼多的原因是因為在穩定幣雖然是號稱有基於去中心化的技術但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的這些發行商所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產的權利是有的比如說美國司法部就曾經成功的要求泰達公司凍結這個泰達幣\n126169\t146842\t我們在未發生之前我們先做防範它的效用會更大我想請教院長我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制在黃金時間裡面例如說24小時內請求這些發行商對這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結然後之後再補足司法程序\n148604\t169413\t是跟委員報告一下啊當然最近有關穩定幣的這樣的一個那個討論非常的多那當然剛剛委員有提到就是說我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面呢也有這一塊剛剛委員提到說我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作我想那個層面蠻多的因為\n170313\t189394\t特別是剛剛提到這家其實在國際上面它有它很大的特色它是一個受監管比較低度的一個美國穩定幣發行商它比如現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管泰達它也想說可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管境外它還是維持這樣這個東西我們\n191796\t210703\t當然就以犯罪增防的角度的話任何有助於這個當然可以做但是我們現在未來會有自己的穩定幣的發行還有就是說還有怎麼樣跟國際上面的這些已經發行的穩定幣做合作我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣一個討論跟合作\n215992\t239879\t我只是把這個問題先提出來先做好準備因為過去美國的司法部有成功的案例比如說有潛力的話就可以去遵循潛力特別是在我們能夠努力的方向之一我們先做好防堵未來才可以做有效的去打擊犯罪接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部麻煩請法務部長備詢\n249238\t262096\t部長我們想請教一下最近這幾年任何一年都沒關係因為這個榨汽罪疏於的受刑人兩年內的再犯率你覺得大概是多少\n263321\t275954\t這部分我目前沒有數據我會後再提供我們有這個數據因為我們從法國部那邊提出來我想說你的概念上面有沒有大概是三分之一還是五分之一還是四分之一其實是23.2%這個數字那我為什麼講這個數字\n280698\t298508\t是因為我們如果做統計的話我們做案件來去審理的話我們會看到每年都是數以萬計那個數字是很大的但是如果我們以人追案的話我們找這些有高度的再犯率的有前科的那我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案\n300080\t310451\t一年內的再犯比例是16.7%這都是法務部的這些記錄所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有\n312035\t339790\t這個犯罪持續案它變成是治安上面的一個頑疾所以高度再犯率它凸顯出現在的矯正教化還有出獄之後的這個追蹤體系是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用所以現在打詐的政策不斷的經濟但是預防再犯我認為這個是可以解決的因為我們擁有他的過去的犯罪的記錄我們知道他過去犯罪的手法我們有他的資料之後甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團\n340510\t356962\t所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來去阻止這樣子的犯罪所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率所以這個是一個很重要的一個數據這個統計上面我想部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的這個經濟方案\n359805\t378622\t我想目前的大部分的這些的詐欺犯他在整個判決確定的一個刑度大部分都集中在一年或者是到這個是車手部分如果說單純的人頭賬戶這邊都是一年以下居多\n380023\t402473\t我想這個有它社會的一個原因我想會參加詐團一定是一個觀念偏差尤其是金錢觀的一個觀念的偏差我想在整個一個預防面的如果說有到監獄裡面我想這部分我想我們再加強再做一個教化另外在我也關心的\n402873\t429567\t这个再犯率的问题事实上我们那个诈欺危害防治条例对这种在我们怕有这种所以在一个长期比较诈骗人多的这一种的刑度比较高的这一种我们这个在假释这部分我们新的法律是规定是三分之二出犯哦出犯三分之二那另外累犯的话是四分之三如果三犯的话就没有假释的这种的优惠\n430367\t443174\t那我想執行刑期的一個長團與活並不代表就是說一個教化的一個成功那我想我們這個委員關心的這預防再犯這個教化這部分我們再跟矯正署我們再來做一個經濟\n444876\t466312\t賀祖利然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字我想說有這個詐騙前科犯加上這個再犯我們這些多一點數字出來之後有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向政策工具才可以進去那另外委員關心的就是為什麼再犯因為再犯的話我想會再檢討那個言語對我們先從\n467473\t484879\t因為我現在手上沒有炸雞犯的有前科的犯罪這幾年的波動我們知道這個之後我們就大概知道說可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄所以包含這一個全國的炸雞犯的資料庫或者是高風險的資料庫我們有沒有建制\n485996\t506415\t這部分我們再來了解有沒有考慮堅持一下我為什麼這麼講的原因是因為你知道現在我們來思考一下就是說這應該有吧有 這個可以估計出來我要講這句話的原因是說全國的這個詐欺犯的資料庫我為什麼講這件事情包含我們現在ATM有限額包含我們這個高度的銀行監管\n507496\t522393\t這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的這個銀行體制有做出一些 也頗有微詞啊比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管\n522893\t550948\t那開設台灣銀行帳戶非常困難即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長還有這個繁瑣的流程為什麼會這樣因為我們要防堵詐欺為什麼要防堵詐欺來影響一般民眾呢這就是我們的癥結點就是說怎麼樣針對這些已經有犯罪前科的已經是再犯 三犯那這些人都還持續的沒有辦法來去嚇阻他們第一個是沒辦法嚇阻第二個是沒辦法教化\n551368\t576004\t那我們接下來的做法是什麼這個部分我想部長能夠給我們一個更好的一個說明的方式執行完畢的這些的受刑人這個就是進入到更生人的這個身份那這部分受保護管束或者是假設處於受保護管束的以及更生這部分我們再來努力再從那個柔性司法這邊我們再努力來協助他互歸社會那我想一個會介紹的可能是\n576864\t604208\t金錢官的一個偏差或者是因為迫於他的沒有收入或者家庭的一個貧困等等那我想會檢討這個檢視他的原因因為我們在在剿證署裡面我相信也有一些的社公司心理師我想如果說對有些再犯或者出犯的再見之刑我們會試圖去了解他的為什麼要犯罪的原因我想這個在一個刑案的過程之後他會更容易去\n605569\t617366\t去把它表達出來好 我們一起找方法好不好部長好 謝謝就是我們提出一個對岸來那我們有數據那我們就可以來去看數據有沒有變化那院長我們接下來就是來討論這一次的打炸的數據\n619026\t643824\t這次的數據剛才其實院長都有提到有一些數據的調整的原因是因為警政署從113年9月起他將刑案發生的計算方式由一案一發生改為受理報案被害人一發生數所以說我剛剛看到專報上面有用圖表畫了一個回歸線他說詐騙案件是長期每月減350件\n646444\t661676\t數字下降當然是好事但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或者是沒有對照組就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因那我們看到只有13年8月到14年7月但是如果說我們之前的數據都在的話只是因為\n662725\t685872\t方式不同我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照因為打炸這個東西不可能一年就見效它必須要有一個數據作為一個佐證那來去告訴我們說比方說你說季節性的波動那這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳那我們要的是政策效果政策效果把它做了之後那數據上面有沒有反應出來所以這不是單一的趨勢線\n687762\t714556\t院長 行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月 4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較\n715817\t742752\t對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件\n745853\t772087\t這個東西到底是有沒有辦法嚇阻這個炸雞飯剛才有很多的討論說之後司法院跟法務部討論之後很快的可能會有調整等等沒有關係我們都是希望有調整但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果我們就要用數據來去佐證我想這些都是今天講的目的接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理來去降低\n774529\t786623\t炸機阻斷上次打炸中心的執密有提到調降ATM的限額沒關係 我們打炸中心的代表都可以\n788615\t810436\t有提到說調降這個限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流這個決心我們是絕對去支持的但是一個好的政策就如同我剛剛說到的不要因為防堵犯罪來去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利現在的做法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法的民眾的不便\n812745\t828412\t我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會精準的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉\n829292\t853988\t那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行\n855671\t879528\t這個跟委員報告一下有關前陣子很多銀行他不是把全面停掉他對他的宿存客戶就是數位開戶的宿存客戶就是其實他是比較特別如果前陣子委員有注意到的話就對於所謂用我們自然能憑證去單憑自然能憑證去開戶的時候因為這很明顯的他比一般的賬戶這個詐騙的機率高了將近有八九倍這樣對\n881309\t905305\t就各種不同的開戶數所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制那我馬上也跟銀行講說你不可以用去風險的經驗所以你要開始找到一個平衡以後逐步開放像剛才講的他們在九月的時候就會逐步按照這個方式來做因為突然發現說大家大量使用這樣的這個方式進行詐騙所以我們必須他們就啟動他們自發性的風險管理機制來進行那我們也\n906827\t930425\t跟銀行提醒說不可以全面這樣來做他們也開始會按照這來做我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了現在台灣已經走向世界那我們的產業也是走向國際化那有越來越多旅台的其他國籍的人士商務人士那台灣遇到的商務問題通常就是在銀行上面的問題那我們不能為了綁賭放罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益謝謝委員這問題\n947347\t947367\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"你好 我們請院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選陳委員好 院長好\n院長我們看今天的報告那裡面有提到各種的詐騙的形式那其中投資詐騙它也是一個主要的原因那投資詐騙裡面我認為說除了詐騙集團他們的這個各種的方式之外其實源自於不了解投資的這個標的物那特別是我們剛才很多委員都提到虛擬貨幣也好或者是穩定幣也就是說我們現在這個金融的防堵\n它有一個重要的一點就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵但是在境外的合作具體的方式可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力來去進行\n但是現在跨境洗錢過去可能是用虛擬貨幣像是比特幣來進行但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣甚至在美國也被納入他的天才法案裡面虛擬貨幣是具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性所以隱蔽性也有 流通性也有有了穩定幣之後等於是說他們能夠連價值儲存的功能都具備價值甚至不會因為市場的波動而去縮水它又變成了新時代的一個洗錢的工具\n我講這麼多的原因是因為在穩定幣雖然是號稱有基於去中心化的技術但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的這些發行商所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產的權利是有的比如說美國司法部就曾經成功的要求泰達公司凍結這個泰達幣\n我們在未發生之前我們先做防範它的效用會更大我想請教院長我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制在黃金時間裡面例如說24小時內請求這些發行商對這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結然後之後再補足司法程序\n是跟委員報告一下啊當然最近有關穩定幣的這樣的一個那個討論非常的多那當然剛剛委員有提到就是說我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面呢也有這一塊剛剛委員提到說我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作我想那個層面蠻多的因為\n特別是剛剛提到這家其實在國際上面它有它很大的特色它是一個受監管比較低度的一個美國穩定幣發行商它比如現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管泰達它也想說可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管境外它還是維持這樣這個東西我們\n當然就以犯罪增防的角度的話任何有助於這個當然可以做但是我們現在未來會有自己的穩定幣的發行還有就是說還有怎麼樣跟國際上面的這些已經發行的穩定幣做合作我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣一個討論跟合作\n我只是把這個問題先提出來先做好準備因為過去美國的司法部有成功的案例比如說有潛力的話就可以去遵循潛力特別是在我們能夠努力的方向之一我們先做好防堵未來才可以做有效的去打擊犯罪接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部麻煩請法務部長備詢\n部長我們想請教一下最近這幾年任何一年都沒關係因為這個榨汽罪疏於的受刑人兩年內的再犯率你覺得大概是多少\n這部分我目前沒有數據我會後再提供我們有這個數據因為我們從法國部那邊提出來我想說你的概念上面有沒有大概是三分之一還是五分之一還是四分之一其實是23.2%這個數字那我為什麼講這個數字\n是因為我們如果做統計的話我們做案件來去審理的話我們會看到每年都是數以萬計那個數字是很大的但是如果我們以人追案的話我們找這些有高度的再犯率的有前科的那我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案\n一年內的再犯比例是16.7%這都是法務部的這些記錄所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有\n這個犯罪持續案它變成是治安上面的一個頑疾所以高度再犯率它凸顯出現在的矯正教化還有出獄之後的這個追蹤體系是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用所以現在打詐的政策不斷的經濟但是預防再犯我認為這個是可以解決的因為我們擁有他的過去的犯罪的記錄我們知道他過去犯罪的手法我們有他的資料之後甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團\n所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來去阻止這樣子的犯罪所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率所以這個是一個很重要的一個數據這個統計上面我想部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的這個經濟方案\n我想目前的大部分的這些的詐欺犯他在整個判決確定的一個刑度大部分都集中在一年或者是到這個是車手部分如果說單純的人頭賬戶這邊都是一年以下居多\n我想這個有它社會的一個原因我想會參加詐團一定是一個觀念偏差尤其是金錢觀的一個觀念的偏差我想在整個一個預防面的如果說有到監獄裡面我想這部分我想我們再加強再做一個教化另外在我也關心的\n这个再犯率的问题事实上我们那个诈欺危害防治条例对这种在我们怕有这种所以在一个长期比较诈骗人多的这一种的刑度比较高的这一种我们这个在假释这部分我们新的法律是规定是三分之二出犯哦出犯三分之二那另外累犯的话是四分之三如果三犯的话就没有假释的这种的优惠\n那我想執行刑期的一個長團與活並不代表就是說一個教化的一個成功那我想我們這個委員關心的這預防再犯這個教化這部分我們再跟矯正署我們再來做一個經濟\n賀祖利然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字我想說有這個詐騙前科犯加上這個再犯我們這些多一點數字出來之後有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向政策工具才可以進去那另外委員關心的就是為什麼再犯因為再犯的話我想會再檢討那個言語對我們先從\n因為我現在手上沒有炸雞犯的有前科的犯罪這幾年的波動我們知道這個之後我們就大概知道說可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄所以包含這一個全國的炸雞犯的資料庫或者是高風險的資料庫我們有沒有建制\n這部分我們再來了解有沒有考慮堅持一下我為什麼這麼講的原因是因為你知道現在我們來思考一下就是說這應該有吧有 這個可以估計出來我要講這句話的原因是說全國的這個詐欺犯的資料庫我為什麼講這件事情包含我們現在ATM有限額包含我們這個高度的銀行監管\n這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的這個銀行體制有做出一些 也頗有微詞啊比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管\n那開設台灣銀行帳戶非常困難即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長還有這個繁瑣的流程為什麼會這樣因為我們要防堵詐欺為什麼要防堵詐欺來影響一般民眾呢這就是我們的癥結點就是說怎麼樣針對這些已經有犯罪前科的已經是再犯 三犯那這些人都還持續的沒有辦法來去嚇阻他們第一個是沒辦法嚇阻第二個是沒辦法教化\n那我們接下來的做法是什麼這個部分我想部長能夠給我們一個更好的一個說明的方式執行完畢的這些的受刑人這個就是進入到更生人的這個身份那這部分受保護管束或者是假設處於受保護管束的以及更生這部分我們再來努力再從那個柔性司法這邊我們再努力來協助他互歸社會那我想一個會介紹的可能是\n金錢官的一個偏差或者是因為迫於他的沒有收入或者家庭的一個貧困等等那我想會檢討這個檢視他的原因因為我們在在剿證署裡面我相信也有一些的社公司心理師我想如果說對有些再犯或者出犯的再見之刑我們會試圖去了解他的為什麼要犯罪的原因我想這個在一個刑案的過程之後他會更容易去\n去把它表達出來好 我們一起找方法好不好部長好 謝謝就是我們提出一個對岸來那我們有數據那我們就可以來去看數據有沒有變化那院長我們接下來就是來討論這一次的打炸的數據\n這次的數據剛才其實院長都有提到有一些數據的調整的原因是因為警政署從113年9月起他將刑案發生的計算方式由一案一發生改為受理報案被害人一發生數所以說我剛剛看到專報上面有用圖表畫了一個回歸線他說詐騙案件是長期每月減350件\n數字下降當然是好事但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或者是沒有對照組就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因那我們看到只有13年8月到14年7月但是如果說我們之前的數據都在的話只是因為\n方式不同我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照因為打炸這個東西不可能一年就見效它必須要有一個數據作為一個佐證那來去告訴我們說比方說你說季節性的波動那這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳那我們要的是政策效果政策效果把它做了之後那數據上面有沒有反應出來所以這不是單一的趨勢線\n院長 行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月 4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較\n對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件\n這個東西到底是有沒有辦法嚇阻這個炸雞飯剛才有很多的討論說之後司法院跟法務部討論之後很快的可能會有調整等等沒有關係我們都是希望有調整但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果我們就要用數據來去佐證我想這些都是今天講的目的接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理來去降低\n炸機阻斷上次打炸中心的執密有提到調降ATM的限額沒關係 我們打炸中心的代表都可以\n有提到說調降這個限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流這個決心我們是絕對去支持的但是一個好的政策就如同我剛剛說到的不要因為防堵犯罪來去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利現在的做法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法的民眾的不便\n我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會精準的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉\n那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行\n這個跟委員報告一下有關前陣子很多銀行他不是把全面停掉他對他的宿存客戶就是數位開戶的宿存客戶就是其實他是比較特別如果前陣子委員有注意到的話就對於所謂用我們自然能憑證去單憑自然能憑證去開戶的時候因為這很明顯的他比一般的賬戶這個詐騙的機率高了將近有八九倍這樣對\n就各種不同的開戶數所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制那我馬上也跟銀行講說你不可以用去風險的經驗所以你要開始找到一個平衡以後逐步開放像剛才講的他們在九月的時候就會逐步按照這個方式來做因為突然發現說大家大量使用這樣的這個方式進行詐騙所以我們必須他們就啟動他們自發性的風險管理機制來進行那我們也\n跟銀行提醒說不可以全面這樣來做他們也開始會按照這來做我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了現在台灣已經走向世界那我們的產業也是走向國際化那有越來越多旅台的其他國籍的人士商務人士那台灣遇到的商務問題通常就是在銀行上面的問題那我們不能為了綁賭放罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益謝謝委員這問題\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:14.124 --> 00:28.463\n你好我們請院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選陳委員好院長好\n\n00:29.690 --> 00:57.899\n院長我們看今天的報告那裡面有提到各種的詐騙的形式那其中投資詐騙它也是一個主要的原因那投資詐騙裡面我認為說除了詐騙集團他們的這個各種的方式之外其實源自於不了解投資的這個標的物那特別是我們剛才很多委員都提到虛擬貨幣也好或者是穩定幣也就是說我們現在這個金融的防堵\n\n00:58.499 --> 01:10.900\n它有一個重要的一點就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵但是在境外的合作具體的方式可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力來去進行\n\n01:11.789 --> 01:40.784\n但是現在跨境洗錢過去可能是用虛擬貨幣像是比特幣來進行但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣甚至在美國也被納入他的天才法案裡面虛擬貨幣是具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性所以隱蔽性也有流通性也有有了穩定幣之後等於是說他們能夠連價值儲存的功能都具備價值甚至不會因為市場的波動而去縮水它又變成了新時代的一個洗錢的工具\n\n01:41.963 --> 02:02.997\n我講這麼多的原因是因為在穩定幣雖然是號稱有基於去中心化的技術但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的這些發行商所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產的權利是有的比如說美國司法部就曾經成功的要求泰達公司凍結這個泰達幣\n\n02:06.169 --> 02:26.842\n我們在未發生之前我們先做防範它的效用會更大我想請教院長我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制在黃金時間裡面例如說24小時內請求這些發行商對這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結然後之後再補足司法程序\n\n02:28.604 --> 02:49.413\n是跟委員報告一下啊當然最近有關穩定幣的這樣的一個那個討論非常的多那當然剛剛委員有提到就是說我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面呢也有這一塊剛剛委員提到說我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作我想那個層面蠻多的因為\n\n02:50.313 --> 03:09.394\n特別是剛剛提到這家其實在國際上面它有它很大的特色它是一個受監管比較低度的一個美國穩定幣發行商它比如現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管泰達它也想說可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管境外它還是維持這樣這個東西我們\n\n03:11.796 --> 03:30.703\n當然就以犯罪增防的角度的話任何有助於這個當然可以做但是我們現在未來會有自己的穩定幣的發行還有就是說還有怎麼樣跟國際上面的這些已經發行的穩定幣做合作我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣一個討論跟合作\n\n03:35.992 --> 03:59.879\n我只是把這個問題先提出來先做好準備因為過去美國的司法部有成功的案例比如說有潛力的話就可以去遵循潛力特別是在我們能夠努力的方向之一我們先做好防堵未來才可以做有效的去打擊犯罪接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部麻煩請法務部長備詢\n\n04:09.238 --> 04:22.096\n部長我們想請教一下最近這幾年任何一年都沒關係因為這個榨汽罪疏於的受刑人兩年內的再犯率你覺得大概是多少\n\n04:23.321 --> 04:35.954\n這部分我目前沒有數據我會後再提供我們有這個數據因為我們從法國部那邊提出來我想說你的概念上面有沒有大概是三分之一還是五分之一還是四分之一其實是23.2%這個數字那我為什麼講這個數字\n\n04:40.698 --> 04:58.508\n是因為我們如果做統計的話我們做案件來去審理的話我們會看到每年都是數以萬計那個數字是很大的但是如果我們以人追案的話我們找這些有高度的再犯率的有前科的那我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案\n\n05:00.080 --> 05:10.451\n一年內的再犯比例是16.7%這都是法務部的這些記錄所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有\n\n05:12.035 --> 05:39.790\n這個犯罪持續案它變成是治安上面的一個頑疾所以高度再犯率它凸顯出現在的矯正教化還有出獄之後的這個追蹤體系是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用所以現在打詐的政策不斷的經濟但是預防再犯我認為這個是可以解決的因為我們擁有他的過去的犯罪的記錄我們知道他過去犯罪的手法我們有他的資料之後甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團\n\n05:40.510 --> 05:56.962\n所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來去阻止這樣子的犯罪所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率所以這個是一個很重要的一個數據這個統計上面我想部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的這個經濟方案\n\n05:59.805 --> 06:18.622\n我想目前的大部分的這些的詐欺犯他在整個判決確定的一個刑度大部分都集中在一年或者是到這個是車手部分如果說單純的人頭賬戶這邊都是一年以下居多\n\n06:20.023 --> 06:42.473\n我想這個有它社會的一個原因我想會參加詐團一定是一個觀念偏差尤其是金錢觀的一個觀念的偏差我想在整個一個預防面的如果說有到監獄裡面我想這部分我想我們再加強再做一個教化另外在我也關心的\n\n06:42.873 --> 07:09.567\n这个再犯率的问题事实上我们那个诈欺危害防治条例对这种在我们怕有这种所以在一个长期比较诈骗人多的这一种的刑度比较高的这一种我们这个在假释这部分我们新的法律是规定是三分之二出犯哦出犯三分之二那另外累犯的话是四分之三如果三犯的话就没有假释的这种的优惠\n\n07:10.367 --> 07:23.174\n那我想執行刑期的一個長團與活並不代表就是說一個教化的一個成功那我想我們這個委員關心的這預防再犯這個教化這部分我們再跟矯正署我們再來做一個經濟\n\n07:24.876 --> 07:46.312\n賀祖利然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字我想說有這個詐騙前科犯加上這個再犯我們這些多一點數字出來之後有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向政策工具才可以進去那另外委員關心的就是為什麼再犯因為再犯的話我想會再檢討那個言語對我們先從\n\n07:47.473 --> 08:04.879\n因為我現在手上沒有炸雞犯的有前科的犯罪這幾年的波動我們知道這個之後我們就大概知道說可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄所以包含這一個全國的炸雞犯的資料庫或者是高風險的資料庫我們有沒有建制\n\n08:05.996 --> 08:26.415\n這部分我們再來了解有沒有考慮堅持一下我為什麼這麼講的原因是因為你知道現在我們來思考一下就是說這應該有吧有這個可以估計出來我要講這句話的原因是說全國的這個詐欺犯的資料庫我為什麼講這件事情包含我們現在ATM有限額包含我們這個高度的銀行監管\n\n08:27.496 --> 08:42.393\n這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的這個銀行體制有做出一些也頗有微詞啊比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管\n\n08:42.893 --> 09:10.948\n那開設台灣銀行帳戶非常困難即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長還有這個繁瑣的流程為什麼會這樣因為我們要防堵詐欺為什麼要防堵詐欺來影響一般民眾呢這就是我們的癥結點就是說怎麼樣針對這些已經有犯罪前科的已經是再犯三犯那這些人都還持續的沒有辦法來去嚇阻他們第一個是沒辦法嚇阻第二個是沒辦法教化\n\n09:11.368 --> 09:36.004\n那我們接下來的做法是什麼這個部分我想部長能夠給我們一個更好的一個說明的方式執行完畢的這些的受刑人這個就是進入到更生人的這個身份那這部分受保護管束或者是假設處於受保護管束的以及更生這部分我們再來努力再從那個柔性司法這邊我們再努力來協助他互歸社會那我想一個會介紹的可能是\n\n09:36.864 --> 10:04.208\n金錢官的一個偏差或者是因為迫於他的沒有收入或者家庭的一個貧困等等那我想會檢討這個檢視他的原因因為我們在在剿證署裡面我相信也有一些的社公司心理師我想如果說對有些再犯或者出犯的再見之刑我們會試圖去了解他的為什麼要犯罪的原因我想這個在一個刑案的過程之後他會更容易去\n\n10:05.569 --> 10:17.366\n去把它表達出來好我們一起找方法好不好部長好謝謝就是我們提出一個對岸來那我們有數據那我們就可以來去看數據有沒有變化那院長我們接下來就是來討論這一次的打炸的數據\n\n10:19.026 --> 10:43.824\n這次的數據剛才其實院長都有提到有一些數據的調整的原因是因為警政署從113年9月起他將刑案發生的計算方式由一案一發生改為受理報案被害人一發生數所以說我剛剛看到專報上面有用圖表畫了一個回歸線他說詐騙案件是長期每月減350件\n\n10:46.444 --> 11:01.676\n數字下降當然是好事但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或者是沒有對照組就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因那我們看到只有13年8月到14年7月但是如果說我們之前的數據都在的話只是因為\n\n11:02.725 --> 11:25.872\n方式不同我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照因為打炸這個東西不可能一年就見效它必須要有一個數據作為一個佐證那來去告訴我們說比方說你說季節性的波動那這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳那我們要的是政策效果政策效果把它做了之後那數據上面有沒有反應出來所以這不是單一的趨勢線\n\n11:27.762 --> 11:54.556\n院長行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較\n\n11:55.817 --> 12:22.752\n對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件\n\n12:25.853 --> 12:52.087\n這個東西到底是有沒有辦法嚇阻這個炸雞飯剛才有很多的討論說之後司法院跟法務部討論之後很快的可能會有調整等等沒有關係我們都是希望有調整但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果我們就要用數據來去佐證我想這些都是今天講的目的接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理來去降低\n\n12:54.529 --> 13:06.623\n炸機阻斷上次打炸中心的執密有提到調降ATM的限額沒關係我們打炸中心的代表都可以\n\n13:08.615 --> 13:30.436\n有提到說調降這個限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流這個決心我們是絕對去支持的但是一個好的政策就如同我剛剛說到的不要因為防堵犯罪來去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利現在的做法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法的民眾的不便\n\n13:32.745 --> 13:48.412\n我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會精準的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉\n\n13:49.292 --> 14:13.988\n那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行\n\n14:15.671 --> 14:39.528\n這個跟委員報告一下有關前陣子很多銀行他不是把全面停掉他對他的宿存客戶就是數位開戶的宿存客戶就是其實他是比較特別如果前陣子委員有注意到的話就對於所謂用我們自然能憑證去單憑自然能憑證去開戶的時候因為這很明顯的他比一般的賬戶這個詐騙的機率高了將近有八九倍這樣對\n\n14:41.309 --> 15:05.305\n就各種不同的開戶數所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制那我馬上也跟銀行講說你不可以用去風險的經驗所以你要開始找到一個平衡以後逐步開放像剛才講的他們在九月的時候就會逐步按照這個方式來做因為突然發現說大家大量使用這樣的這個方式進行詐騙所以我們必須他們就啟動他們自發性的風險管理機制來進行那我們也\n\n15:06.827 --> 15:30.425\n跟銀行提醒說不可以全面這樣來做他們也開始會按照這來做我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了現在台灣已經走向世界那我們的產業也是走向國際化那有越來越多旅台的其他國籍的人士商務人士那台灣遇到的商務問題通常就是在銀行上面的問題那我們不能為了綁賭放罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益謝謝委員這問題\n\n15:47.347 --> 15:47.367\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":14.124,"end":28.463,"text":"你好 我們請院長麻煩請卓院長再次備選陳委員好 院長好"},{"start":29.69,"end":57.899,"text":"院長我們看今天的報告那裡面有提到各種的詐騙的形式那其中投資詐騙它也是一個主要的原因那投資詐騙裡面我認為說除了詐騙集團他們的這個各種的方式之外其實源自於不了解投資的這個標的物那特別是我們剛才很多委員都提到虛擬貨幣也好或者是穩定幣也就是說我們現在這個金融的防堵"},{"start":58.499,"end":70.9,"text":"它有一個重要的一點就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵但是在境外的合作具體的方式可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力來去進行"},{"start":71.789,"end":100.784,"text":"但是現在跨境洗錢過去可能是用虛擬貨幣像是比特幣來進行但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣甚至在美國也被納入他的天才法案裡面虛擬貨幣是具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性所以隱蔽性也有 流通性也有有了穩定幣之後等於是說他們能夠連價值儲存的功能都具備價值甚至不會因為市場的波動而去縮水它又變成了新時代的一個洗錢的工具"},{"start":101.963,"end":122.997,"text":"我講這麼多的原因是因為在穩定幣雖然是號稱有基於去中心化的技術但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的這些發行商所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產的權利是有的比如說美國司法部就曾經成功的要求泰達公司凍結這個泰達幣"},{"start":126.169,"end":146.842,"text":"我們在未發生之前我們先做防範它的效用會更大我想請教院長我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制在黃金時間裡面例如說24小時內請求這些發行商對這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結然後之後再補足司法程序"},{"start":148.604,"end":169.413,"text":"是跟委員報告一下啊當然最近有關穩定幣的這樣的一個那個討論非常的多那當然剛剛委員有提到就是說我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面呢也有這一塊剛剛委員提到說我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作我想那個層面蠻多的因為"},{"start":170.313,"end":189.394,"text":"特別是剛剛提到這家其實在國際上面它有它很大的特色它是一個受監管比較低度的一個美國穩定幣發行商它比如現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管泰達它也想說可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管境外它還是維持這樣這個東西我們"},{"start":191.796,"end":210.703,"text":"當然就以犯罪增防的角度的話任何有助於這個當然可以做但是我們現在未來會有自己的穩定幣的發行還有就是說還有怎麼樣跟國際上面的這些已經發行的穩定幣做合作我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣一個討論跟合作"},{"start":215.992,"end":239.879,"text":"我只是把這個問題先提出來先做好準備因為過去美國的司法部有成功的案例比如說有潛力的話就可以去遵循潛力特別是在我們能夠努力的方向之一我們先做好防堵未來才可以做有效的去打擊犯罪接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部麻煩請法務部長備詢"},{"start":249.238,"end":262.096,"text":"部長我們想請教一下最近這幾年任何一年都沒關係因為這個榨汽罪疏於的受刑人兩年內的再犯率你覺得大概是多少"},{"start":263.321,"end":275.954,"text":"這部分我目前沒有數據我會後再提供我們有這個數據因為我們從法國部那邊提出來我想說你的概念上面有沒有大概是三分之一還是五分之一還是四分之一其實是23.2%這個數字那我為什麼講這個數字"},{"start":280.698,"end":298.508,"text":"是因為我們如果做統計的話我們做案件來去審理的話我們會看到每年都是數以萬計那個數字是很大的但是如果我們以人追案的話我們找這些有高度的再犯率的有前科的那我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案"},{"start":300.08,"end":310.451,"text":"一年內的再犯比例是16.7%這都是法務部的這些記錄所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有"},{"start":312.035,"end":339.79,"text":"這個犯罪持續案它變成是治安上面的一個頑疾所以高度再犯率它凸顯出現在的矯正教化還有出獄之後的這個追蹤體系是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用所以現在打詐的政策不斷的經濟但是預防再犯我認為這個是可以解決的因為我們擁有他的過去的犯罪的記錄我們知道他過去犯罪的手法我們有他的資料之後甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團"},{"start":340.51,"end":356.962,"text":"所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來去阻止這樣子的犯罪所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率所以這個是一個很重要的一個數據這個統計上面我想部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的這個經濟方案"},{"start":359.805,"end":378.622,"text":"我想目前的大部分的這些的詐欺犯他在整個判決確定的一個刑度大部分都集中在一年或者是到這個是車手部分如果說單純的人頭賬戶這邊都是一年以下居多"},{"start":380.023,"end":402.473,"text":"我想這個有它社會的一個原因我想會參加詐團一定是一個觀念偏差尤其是金錢觀的一個觀念的偏差我想在整個一個預防面的如果說有到監獄裡面我想這部分我想我們再加強再做一個教化另外在我也關心的"},{"start":402.873,"end":429.567,"text":"这个再犯率的问题事实上我们那个诈欺危害防治条例对这种在我们怕有这种所以在一个长期比较诈骗人多的这一种的刑度比较高的这一种我们这个在假释这部分我们新的法律是规定是三分之二出犯哦出犯三分之二那另外累犯的话是四分之三如果三犯的话就没有假释的这种的优惠"},{"start":430.367,"end":443.174,"text":"那我想執行刑期的一個長團與活並不代表就是說一個教化的一個成功那我想我們這個委員關心的這預防再犯這個教化這部分我們再跟矯正署我們再來做一個經濟"},{"start":444.876,"end":466.312,"text":"賀祖利然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字我想說有這個詐騙前科犯加上這個再犯我們這些多一點數字出來之後有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向政策工具才可以進去那另外委員關心的就是為什麼再犯因為再犯的話我想會再檢討那個言語對我們先從"},{"start":467.473,"end":484.879,"text":"因為我現在手上沒有炸雞犯的有前科的犯罪這幾年的波動我們知道這個之後我們就大概知道說可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄所以包含這一個全國的炸雞犯的資料庫或者是高風險的資料庫我們有沒有建制"},{"start":485.996,"end":506.415,"text":"這部分我們再來了解有沒有考慮堅持一下我為什麼這麼講的原因是因為你知道現在我們來思考一下就是說這應該有吧有 這個可以估計出來我要講這句話的原因是說全國的這個詐欺犯的資料庫我為什麼講這件事情包含我們現在ATM有限額包含我們這個高度的銀行監管"},{"start":507.496,"end":522.393,"text":"這種高度的銀行監管其實國內外許多媒體都在對台灣的這個銀行體制有做出一些 也頗有微詞啊比方說他們說對居留者的移民對銀行與保險公司的過度監管"},{"start":522.893,"end":550.948,"text":"那開設台灣銀行帳戶非常困難即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長還有這個繁瑣的流程為什麼會這樣因為我們要防堵詐欺為什麼要防堵詐欺來影響一般民眾呢這就是我們的癥結點就是說怎麼樣針對這些已經有犯罪前科的已經是再犯 三犯那這些人都還持續的沒有辦法來去嚇阻他們第一個是沒辦法嚇阻第二個是沒辦法教化"},{"start":551.368,"end":576.004,"text":"那我們接下來的做法是什麼這個部分我想部長能夠給我們一個更好的一個說明的方式執行完畢的這些的受刑人這個就是進入到更生人的這個身份那這部分受保護管束或者是假設處於受保護管束的以及更生這部分我們再來努力再從那個柔性司法這邊我們再努力來協助他互歸社會那我想一個會介紹的可能是"},{"start":576.864,"end":604.208,"text":"金錢官的一個偏差或者是因為迫於他的沒有收入或者家庭的一個貧困等等那我想會檢討這個檢視他的原因因為我們在在剿證署裡面我相信也有一些的社公司心理師我想如果說對有些再犯或者出犯的再見之刑我們會試圖去了解他的為什麼要犯罪的原因我想這個在一個刑案的過程之後他會更容易去"},{"start":605.569,"end":617.366,"text":"去把它表達出來好 我們一起找方法好不好部長好 謝謝就是我們提出一個對岸來那我們有數據那我們就可以來去看數據有沒有變化那院長我們接下來就是來討論這一次的打炸的數據"},{"start":619.026,"end":643.824,"text":"這次的數據剛才其實院長都有提到有一些數據的調整的原因是因為警政署從113年9月起他將刑案發生的計算方式由一案一發生改為受理報案被害人一發生數所以說我剛剛看到專報上面有用圖表畫了一個回歸線他說詐騙案件是長期每月減350件"},{"start":646.444,"end":661.676,"text":"數字下降當然是好事但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或者是沒有對照組就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因那我們看到只有13年8月到14年7月但是如果說我們之前的數據都在的話只是因為"},{"start":662.725,"end":685.872,"text":"方式不同我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照因為打炸這個東西不可能一年就見效它必須要有一個數據作為一個佐證那來去告訴我們說比方說你說季節性的波動那這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳那我們要的是政策效果政策效果把它做了之後那數據上面有沒有反應出來所以這不是單一的趨勢線"},{"start":687.762,"end":714.556,"text":"院長 行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法例如用雙重差異的分析比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異當我們排除外部因素之後我們就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候我希望這個時長再長一點因為3月跟4月 4月跟5月5月跟6月的比較我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較"},{"start":715.817,"end":742.752,"text":"對我來說這個統計上面的意義或者是政策上面實施之後有沒有顯著的差別我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨所以在數據上面變化的這個趨勢我還是希望說未來行政院上面可以給我們一個更完整的數據這樣我們才知道說我們的政策到底有沒有用比方說剛才其實有很多委員都提到這個第17條得檢刑的這個要件"},{"start":745.853,"end":772.087,"text":"這個東西到底是有沒有辦法嚇阻這個炸雞飯剛才有很多的討論說之後司法院跟法務部討論之後很快的可能會有調整等等沒有關係我們都是希望有調整但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果我們就要用數據來去佐證我想這些都是今天講的目的接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理來去降低"},{"start":774.529,"end":786.623,"text":"炸機阻斷上次打炸中心的執密有提到調降ATM的限額沒關係 我們打炸中心的代表都可以"},{"start":788.615,"end":810.436,"text":"有提到說調降這個限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流這個決心我們是絕對去支持的但是一個好的政策就如同我剛剛說到的不要因為防堵犯罪來去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利現在的做法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法的民眾的不便"},{"start":812.745,"end":828.412,"text":"我們並不是要求無上限或者是特別調高而是要回歸正常限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態所以說比方說你會精準的風險管控你又導入用戶行為的模式那執行的識別異常的提臉"},{"start":829.292,"end":853.988,"text":"那如果說用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬的今天突然要領十萬那我們要自動或者是就來調整他的這個提領的上限而不是說一概的全面的把提領的上限來去做調整我想請教一下像這樣子偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險停款行為即時自動的提領上限在技術上可不可行"},{"start":855.671,"end":879.528,"text":"這個跟委員報告一下有關前陣子很多銀行他不是把全面停掉他對他的宿存客戶就是數位開戶的宿存客戶就是其實他是比較特別如果前陣子委員有注意到的話就對於所謂用我們自然能憑證去單憑自然能憑證去開戶的時候因為這很明顯的他比一般的賬戶這個詐騙的機率高了將近有八九倍這樣對"},{"start":881.309,"end":905.305,"text":"就各種不同的開戶數所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制那我馬上也跟銀行講說你不可以用去風險的經驗所以你要開始找到一個平衡以後逐步開放像剛才講的他們在九月的時候就會逐步按照這個方式來做因為突然發現說大家大量使用這樣的這個方式進行詐騙所以我們必須他們就啟動他們自發性的風險管理機制來進行那我們也"},{"start":906.827,"end":930.425,"text":"跟銀行提醒說不可以全面這樣來做他們也開始會按照這來做我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了現在台灣已經走向世界那我們的產業也是走向國際化那有越來越多旅台的其他國籍的人士商務人士那台灣遇到的商務問題通常就是在銀行上面的問題那我們不能為了綁賭放罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益謝謝委員這問題"},{"start":947.347,"end":947.367,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":708,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（17時39分）你好，我們請院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長再次備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：院長好。院長，我們看今天的報告裡面有提到各種詐騙形式，其中投資詐騙也是一個主要的原因。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：那投資詐騙會得逞，我認為除了詐騙集團使用各種詐騙方式之外，其實源自於我們不了解投資的標的，特別是剛才很多委員都提到的虛擬貨幣也好，或者是穩定幣，也就是說，現在金融防堵有一個重要的點，就是我們在國內大概是有辦法做有效的防堵，但是在境外的合作、具體的方式，可能我們還是需要透過各種外交的手段努力去進行，但是現在的跨境洗錢，過去可能是用虛擬貨幣，像是比特幣等等來進行，但是現在穩定幣也成為主流的虛擬貨幣，甚至在美國也被納入它的天才法案裡面。虛擬貨幣具備高度的流通性以及高度的隱蔽性，所以隱蔽性也有，流通性也有，有了穩定幣之後，等於是他們連價值儲存的功能也都具備了，甚至價值不會因為市場的波動而去縮水，它又變成新時代的一個洗錢工具。我講這麼多的原因，是因為穩定幣雖然號稱有基於去中心化的技術，但是它的發行卻是基於高度中心化的發行商，所以從這些發行商來去做技術上的凍結特定地址的資產權利是有的，譬如說，美國司法部就曾經成功要求泰達公司凍結泰達幣，所以在未發生之前，我們先做防範，它的效用會更大。我想請教院長，我們是不是也可以和泰達這些主要的穩定幣發行商直接建立快速的緊急聯繫跟凍結機制，在黃金時間裡面，例如說24小時內，請求這些發行商對於這些涉詐的錢包進行預防性的凍結，然後之後再補足司法程序？"],["卓院長榮泰：請主委回答。"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告一下，當然，最近有關穩定幣的討論非常多，剛剛委員也有提到我們的虛擬資產服務法裡面也有這一塊，剛剛委員提到，我們可不可以透過特定的穩定幣商去做這樣的合作，我想那個層面滿多的，特別是剛剛提到的這家，其實它在國際上面有很大的特色，它是一個受監管比較低度的美國穩定幣發行商，比如說，現在的潮流是希望能夠接受高度的監管，泰達也在想，可不可以在有些境內接受高度的監管，境外它還是維持這樣？這個東西我們以犯罪偵防的角度，任何有助於這個的當然可以做，但是我們未來會發行自己的穩定幣，還有就是怎麼樣跟國際上面已經發行的穩定幣來做合作，我想這部分可能是我們未來會按照不同的屬性來進行這樣的討論跟合作。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，我只是把這個問題先提出來，先做好準備，因為過去美國司法部有成功的案例，等於是有前例的話，就可以去遵循前例，至少這是我們能夠努力的方向之一，即我們先做好防堵，未來才可以有效的打擊犯罪。","接下來可能要請教院長跟法務部。"],["主席：麻煩請法務部長備詢。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，我們想請教一下，最近這幾年，任何一年都沒關係，因為詐欺罪出獄的受刑人兩年內的再犯率，你覺得大概是多少？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分目前我沒有數據，我會後再提供。"],["陳委員冠廷：對，我們有這個數據，因為是從法務部那邊提出來的，我只是想問你的概念上面有沒有大概是三分之一？還是五分之一？還是四分之一？其實是23.2%這個數字，我為什麼講這個數字？因為我們如果做統計的話，我們做案件審理的話，我們會發現到每年都是數以萬計，那個數字是很大的，但是如果我們以人追案的話，我們找這些有高度再犯率的、有前科的，我們可以發覺到這些人是反覆犯案，一年內的再犯比例是16.7%，這都是法務部的紀錄。所以說他們重新返回犯罪的速度是極快的，所以監禁的嚇阻效果為什麼沒有？這個犯罪持續案件變成是治安上面的一個頑疾，所以高度再犯率凸顯出現在的矯正教化，還有出獄之後的追蹤體系，是不是對詐欺犯沒有產生有效的嚇阻作用？現在打詐政策不斷的精進，但是預防再犯，我認為這個是可以解決的，因為我們擁有他過去的犯罪紀錄，我們知道他過去犯罪的手法，我們有他的資料之後，甚至我們可以查出他背後的犯罪集團，所以我們可以在源頭管理環節上面來阻止這樣子的犯罪，所以說我們要切入這個再犯率的核心，怎麼樣去降低這樣子的再犯率，所以這是一個很重要的數據，這個統計上面，部長可不可以跟我們講一下未來你的精進方案？"],["鄭部長銘謙：目前大部分詐欺犯判決確定的刑度幾乎都集中在1年，這個是車手的部分，如果是單純的人頭帳戶都是1年以下居多，我想這個有它社會的原因，而會參加詐團一定是觀念偏差，尤其是金錢觀念的偏差。我想在整個預防面，如果有到監獄裡面，這部分我們會再加強教化。","另外，委員也關心的再犯率問題，事實上詐欺犯罪危害防制條例對於長期詐騙、刑度比較高的，在假釋這部分，新的法律規定初犯是三分之二，累犯的話是四分之三，如果三犯就沒有假釋的優惠。我想執行刑期長短與否並不代表教化的成功，至於委員關心的預防再犯教化這部分，我們再跟矯正署做一個精進。"],["陳委員冠廷：嚇阻力，然後剛才部長說會提供給我們這些統計數字。我想詐騙前科犯加上再犯，我們有多一點的數字出來之後，有數字我們才可以做一個數字的政策導向，政策工具才可以進去。"],["鄭部長銘謙：對。另外委員關心的就是再犯，再犯的話，我想會再檢討那個原因。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為現在我手上沒有有前科的詐欺犯犯罪這幾年的波動情形，我們知道這個之後，就大概會知道可能我們可以專注在已經有犯罪紀錄，所以包含全國詐欺犯資料庫，或者是高風險的資料庫，我們有沒有建置？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分我們再來了解。"],["陳委員冠廷：有沒有考慮建置一下？"],["鄭部長銘謙：好。"],["陳委員冠廷：我為什麼這麼講的原因是……"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個整個行政資料應該可以去勾稽出來。"],["陳委員冠廷：我們思考一下，就是……"],["卓院長榮泰：這應該有。"],["鄭部長銘謙：有，這個可以勾稽出來。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個分析是基本上……"],["陳委員冠廷：我為什麼講全國詐欺犯資料庫這件事情？包含現在ATM有限額、包含我們高度的銀行監管，這種高度的銀行監管，其實國內外很多媒體都對臺灣的銀行體制頗有微詞，比方他們說對居留者、移民、對銀行與保險公司的過度監管，開設臺灣銀行帳戶非常困難，即使有配偶也往往需要經過漫長和繁瑣的流程，為什麼會這樣？因為我們要防堵詐欺，為什麼防堵詐欺要影響一般民眾呢？這就是我們的癥結點，就是怎麼樣針對那些已經有犯罪前科、已經是再犯、三犯，這些人還持續，沒有辦法嚇阻他們，第一個是沒辦法嚇阻，第二個是沒辦法教化，那我們接下來的作法是什麼？這個部分我希望部長能夠給我們一個更好的說明方式。"],["鄭部長銘謙：執刑完畢的這些受刑人是不是就進入到更生人的身分，這部分受保護管束或者是假釋出獄受保護管束的以及更生人這部分，我們再來努力從柔性司法這邊，我們再努力來協助他復歸社會。我想會去詐騙，可能是金錢觀的偏差，或者是因為迫於沒有收入，或者家庭貧困等等，我們會檢討、檢視它的原因，因為在矯正署裡面，我們相信也有一些社工師、心理師，對於再犯或者初犯的在監執刑，我們會試圖去了解他為什麼要犯罪的原因，我想在一個刑案的過程之後，他會更容易去把它表達出來。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，我們一起找方法，好不好？部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：好，謝謝。"],["陳委員冠廷：就是提出一個對案，我們有數據，我們就可以去看數據有沒有變化。","院長，我們接下來就是討論這一次打詐的數據，有關這次的數據，其實剛才院長都有提到有一些數據調整的原因，是因為警政署從113年9月起將刑案發生的計算方式由「一案一發生」改為「受理報案被害人一發生數」。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員冠廷：我剛剛看到專報上有用圖表畫了一個迴歸線，它說詐騙案件是長期以每月減少350件趨勢緩步下降，數字下降當然是好事，但是如果只看下降趨勢沒有做比較或是沒有對照組，就沒有辦法去排除其他的原因，我們只有看到113年8月到114年7月，但是如果我們之前的數據都在的話，只是因為方式不同，我們還是可以做一些跟過去的對照，因為打詐這個東西不可能一年就見效，它必須要有一個數據佐證來告訴我們，比方你說季節性的波動，這樣的統計解讀在科學上和政策上站不站得住腳？我們要的是政策效果，政策效果把它做了之後，數據上面有沒有反應出來？所以這不是單一的趨勢線。院長，行政院手上一定會有一個完整的歷史數據跟區域數據，我們就可以用更嚴謹的方法，例如用雙重差異的分析，比較政策前後不同地區的變化差異，在我們排除外部因素之後，就可以知道我們的政策工具有沒有真正發揮作用。所以如果未來我們下次報告提供分析的時候，我希望這個時長再長一點，因為3月跟4月、4月跟5月、5月跟6月的比較，我剛剛看到很多委員在做比較，其實對我來說，這個統計上面的意義，或是政策上實施之後有沒有顯著的差別，我認為這沒有辦法做出有效的分辨，所以在數據上變化的趨勢，我還是希望未來行政院可以給我們一個更完整的數據，這樣我們才知道我們的政策到底有沒有用。比方說剛才有很多委員都提到第四十七條得減刑的要件，這個減刑到底有沒有辦法嚇阻詐欺犯？剛才有很多的討論，說司法院跟法務部討論之後，可能很快地會有調整等等，那沒有關係，我們都是希望有調整，但是有調整之後會不會有更好的效果？我們就要有數據去佐證，我想這些都是今天講的目的。","接下來想要討論一下用智慧化的管理去降低詐欺阻斷，上次打詐中心的執秘有提到調降ATM的限額。沒關係，打詐中心的代表都可以。有提到這個調降限額是為了阻斷詐騙的金流，這個決心我們是絕對支持的，這是一個好的政策，就如同我剛剛說到的，不要因為防堵犯罪去犧牲守法民眾的日常便利，現在的作法是不是無形中反而造成那些守法民眾的不便？我們並不是要求無上限或特別調高，而是要回歸正常，限制的措施應該是例外而不是作為常態。比方說，你會清楚地風險管控、導入用戶行為的模式、執行識別異常的提領，如果用戶的行為平常一個月才領一萬，今天突然要領10萬，那我們要自動或就來調整他提領的上限，而不是一概的、全面的把提領上限去做調整。我想請教一下，像這樣偵測用戶長期嚴重不符合的高風險提款行為，即時自動地提領上限，在技術上可不可行？"],["彭主任委員金隆：跟委員報告，有關前一陣子很多銀行不是把它全面停掉，是對它的數存客戶，就是數位開戶的數存客戶，其實它是比較特別，如果前一陣子委員有注意到的話，對於所謂用自然人憑證，單憑自然人憑證去開戶的時候，因為這很明顯的它比一般帳戶的詐騙機率高了將近有8、9倍，就各種不同的開戶數，所以他們先啟動一個風險控管機制，我馬上也跟銀行講說：你不可以用去風險的經營，所以你要開始找到一個平衡，以後逐步開放。像剛才講的，他們在9月的時候就會按照這個方式來做，因為突然發現大量使用這個方式進行詐騙，他們就啟動自發性的風險管理機制來進行，我們也跟銀行提醒說，不可以全面這樣來做，他們應該不會按照這樣來做。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝，我要提醒這件事情的原因是因為剛才我也提到了，現在臺灣已經走向世界，我們的產業也是走向國際化，也越來越多旅臺的其他國籍的商務人士，在臺灣遇到的商務問題，通常就是在銀行上面的問題，我們不能為了防堵犯罪來犧牲這些民眾的權益。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員對這個問題非常深入地了解，我是要求一開始用重一點的方式沒有問題，可能給大家造成一些不便，我們慢慢地調整到大家能夠適應，但是也不會傷害到一般人在交易上的自由為原則。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳冠廷委員的質詢，也謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢。","報告院會，本日排定質詢的委員均已質詢完畢，非常感謝卓院長以及相關部會首長列席答詢。","現在作以下決定：一、將各委員發言紀錄及書面質詢函送行政院，請就未答復的部分予以書面答復。二、已提出之書面質詢，尚未登載公報者，一律補刊。","報告院會，8月19號（星期二）上午9點繼續開會，進行「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢。","再一次感謝劉書彬委員、林楚茵委員，一起參與今天的專案報告，也再次謝謝卓院長及各部會首長。現在休息。","休息（17時55分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","傅崐萁","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","羅智強","劉書彬","王義川","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","張智倫","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","賴士葆","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","黃健豪","陳亭妃","葛如鈞","林楚茵","陳冠廷"],"page_start":115,"meetingDate":["2025-08-15"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00002","1147101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00004"}}}