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\"end\": 927.348, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,450 --> 00:00:13,454\n謝謝院會主席楊群發言首先來邀請卓院長再請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:25,849 --> 00:00:48,238\n根據官方打炸儀表板的統計我們在114年7月份的時候查獲的炸團有228團1826人比6月份有少了4團少了125人但是我們認為成效是有限的查購撲法的部分所得是4億\n\n3\n00:00:50,159 --> 00:01:08,533\n将近5亿当然比6月份少了一点点少了一成左右所以我们认为到目前为止我们的拦阻金额虽然有到13亿但是跟全国诈骗财损的部分85亿以上还是差距很大\n\n4\n00:01:09,233 --> 00:01:14,956\n尤其我們從打詐儀錶板的上面我們來看歷史112年是89億他是37,823件113年是502億他的案件是122,805件\n\n5\n00:01:27,663 --> 00:01:46,599\n那114年今年的1月到7月份呢他總共有10萬件105310件他的金額是565億換句話說今年的上半年就等於是去年在打仗儀表板上面還更多一整年度更多的金額\n\n6\n00:01:47,640 --> 00:02:05,691\n所以在這樣的情況之下縱使行政院相關單位告訴我們說是計算方式不一樣但是這個是政府公告的打造儀表版所以本席要再請教七月份裡頭我們看到到底是為什麼會有這樣的一個\n\n7\n00:02:06,551 --> 00:02:31,623\n社会现象产生那7月份涉及网络媒体诈骗的我们当然也努力下架了很多但是诈骗的内容他仍旧在平台里头层出不穷那换句话说显示政府你在行动方面我们还有很大的讨论空间也就是还没有有效的可以去压制这些的犯罪虚拟货币\n\n8\n00:02:33,175 --> 00:02:56,741\n這一個必傷的一個交易網路平台跟通訊軟體它仍舊是山不管地帶這三方如果沒有有效的來做管理那麼我們打架國家隊呢當然這個成績是得不到民眾的一個信任的所以本席首先提出這樣子的一個背景本來關於給你也就是請教\n\n9\n00:02:57,862 --> 00:03:12,102\n打詐國家隊運作了將近一年那麼我們為什麼案件跟金額他是不減反增那麼跨境詐騙外交的跟司法的合作我們有什麼精進的方案請說明\n\n10\n00:03:13,439 --> 00:03:31,746\n我們剛剛說所謂統計數字的不同是從去年的8月之前跟8月之後依照它發生我們採取的太陽不同以前是以一個犯罪行為人一個案件來處理後來我們改變是一個犯罪行為人\n\n11\n00:03:32,606 --> 00:03:53,497\n騙了十個人就會有十個案件這樣的方式來處理所以數量會有所改變但是本席告訴跟卓院長分享你即使把一件或者是一件拆成十件這些的數字實際上我們民眾對於詐騙非常的恐慌所以我們討論這個數字是沒有意義的我們要聽到方案\n\n12\n00:03:53,997 --> 00:04:20,700\n跟聽到您的進展這是我們內控上一個考核的機制那剛剛你有說到網路平台啦通訊軟體啦以及這個虛擬貨幣我們在這個數位的網路平台上面現在我們已經要求這四大的平台Meta、IG、Google還有YouTube再加上Trade五個平台Trade在九月份也會要求它落地管理實名制這樣會有助於我們對於九月份是下個月嗎\n\n13\n00:04:22,916 --> 00:04:50,644\n對其他都有了全面四個都有了就是Trade這個部分會在九月份要求他也要照我們新的打炸心法裡面所規定要在這裡落地實名制定在的時間請Trade要在九月份的時候也要強制執行制他必須接受我們的管制那麼另外就是虛擬貨幣這個我們現在當然他的成效比較不明顯因為他到底是一個很新興的一個取代一個貨幣的一個行為但是接著我們這個金管會會從\n\n14\n00:04:52,663 --> 00:05:06,969\n貨幣發行幣商服務幣商的這個管理讓他成為一個公會讓他納入我們公會的管理之後納入公會的管理從根源來管理是否這個解讀正確嗎納入公會的管理\n\n15\n00:05:08,172 --> 00:05:26,464\n從根本來解決我們為他成為一個工會讓他在裡面第一個是要自律第二我們用法律上來管理再請這個彭主席來做說明我想剛剛有關那個虛擬資產的先跟委員說明一下我們那個專法在6月27號已經送進現在在審議中現在已經在加緊審議中\n\n16\n00:05:27,725 --> 00:05:51,130\n在我們去年11月30號通過了這個登記制以後呢可以行者這部分是我們第一步的管理剛剛院長有提到就是說我們組工會的部分他們我們把就現在所謂的VASP就是虛擬資產業者的工會現在已經開始運作了像比如最近呢我們在5月的時候請問你們這樣的方案要什麼樣什麼時間可以承行因為民眾苦不堪言\n\n17\n00:05:52,030 --> 00:06:18,349\n其實我們現在的你們有方法給予肯定但是你要告訴我們答案你們一定有你們的KPI你什麼時候公會他可以成行我們政府可以管控去年已經成立已經開始運作像比如說在跟委員報告我們今天5月就看到現金交易的問題我們就直接把現金禁掉所以我們在這一部分我們把這個就做得很有效納管這是其中一個措施\n\n18\n00:06:19,050 --> 00:06:29,265\n接下來比如說我們對於所有虛擬資產業者的管控我們從原來最高的26到現在的話我們大概只剩下14家因為對不合規的我們全部把它淘汰掉\n\n19\n00:06:30,916 --> 00:06:53,682\n院長您聽到你的單位主管說是非常有效的管控但是本席告訴你我們在坊間聽到的不一樣的一個方向所以本席剛剛所說的虛擬貨幣我們的幣商交易以及網路平台通訊軟體這三不管地帶你們必須好好的去整合所以因此我要告訴你\n\n20\n00:06:54,322 --> 00:07:04,429\n對守法合法的業者納入工會但是我們還有一些非常不守法的在網路世界數位率所以我們還要加強這個部分當然要加強這個部分當然要加強怎麼加強呢我民眾苦不堪言\n\n21\n00:07:10,407 --> 00:07:28,565\n已經在做你好好去經濟好不好也把時間點給我們好不好接下來我要告訴你因為在這個國家政策研究基金會裡頭給你的一個民調也就是在政府打詐司法跟青年方面的44.8%的民眾是認為我們對於打擊詐騙是表示不滿的\n\n22\n00:07:33,810 --> 00:08:00,393\n其中還有一個更重要的因子也就是50到69歲的族群他是感受最深在這樣的情況之下本席要請教院長就是打詐的成效這個案件跟金額他是雙雙惡化所以民眾會恐慌所以本席要請教的就是說那打詐詐團他有恃無恐\n\n23\n00:08:01,053 --> 00:08:29,504\n那你主謀消耗法外金流跟跨境的鏈結你沒有去把它破解那當然民眾是沒有辦法求償所以你們不斷的在宣導說所謂的市詐賭詐房詐主詐以及懲詐但到目前為止似乎它的成效是不足以去壓制這些犯罪者的行為所以在這邊本席要特別要告訴你一點也就是你跨部會\n\n24\n00:08:30,524 --> 00:08:42,891\n跨部會本來你們從打造辦公室然後改制為指揮中心從去年的8月27號你的指揮中心但是你跨部會的整合你滿意嗎院長你滿意嗎\n\n25\n00:08:45,492 --> 00:09:07,599\n他們逐步在推動是各種的事務逐步的在推動我們已經一年了人員的部分我們會適度的加強人員部分要適度加強表示你也不滿意嘛提到剛剛法制化的問題也是我們現在在想的方式如果提升它的效率這是一年指揮中心正式成立一年之後院長你告訴我們的\n\n26\n00:09:08,459 --> 00:09:24,360\n我們也民眾是苦不堪言的情況之下我們希望政府有方法能夠保護民眾所以本席具體建議跨部會的協調是失靈的因為金管會NCC警政移民外交它各自為政嘛\n\n27\n00:09:24,921 --> 00:09:44,115\n他沒有共享資源沒有共享資訊所以他當然沒有辦法有一個美好的成果一個成效出來所以本席要特別請教未來在整個跨部會的一個綻合資源裡頭你要怎麼做我覺得本席希望聽到這個部分請說明\n\n28\n00:09:45,580 --> 00:09:53,895\n我們現在打造指揮中心有新的指揮官他全力的在做這些內部的管控問題那麼我們的165專線將來會做更多的\n\n29\n00:09:57,113 --> 00:10:25,339\n平行的整合如果我們有一天這個165跟打炸這個把它法制化之後會更進一步符合剛剛委員所說的165法制化什麼時候要法制化我們就朝這個方向什麼時候請教院長那剛剛已經指示內政部盡快就近期的對這些人員的一些鼓勵方面近期擬定一個方法出來那麼把它法制化的過程現在也提出一個方式我們正在審議中正在考慮當中\n\n30\n00:10:25,998 --> 00:10:40,286\n正在考慮跟審議當中你要盡快要盡快你有沒有你的指標預計在什麼時候可以成行我已經指示內政部請內政部盡快來提出一個方案內政部有時間點嗎可以告訴我們民眾嗎\n\n31\n00:10:42,234 --> 00:10:58,572\n我們不能讓這個空窗期這麼長啊不會我知道大家都非常的殷切期盼所以我這個會請內政部儘速完成儘速完成所以現在沒有辦法時間告訴我們法治化必須要有一個過程所以你也把這個繳成\n\n32\n00:11:00,214 --> 00:11:27,685\n可以同步進行的同步進行儘快告訴我們儘快讓民眾可以安心我們拭目以待同時我要給院長說明的打仗司法的時候包括了科技偵查當時我們不分藍綠白一起好好的幫助這個國家能夠讓人民安心所以甚至在整個科技偵查裡頭大家努力的協商終於也放在刑事訴訟法裡頭的專章裡頭\n\n33\n00:11:29,326 --> 00:11:44,751\n甚至本席所提案的我們的洗錢防治法15條之一之二也就是事先將這些你沒有理由的在收集這些帳號那你就要出動了我們用法讓執行者有所依歸有能夠有成效\n\n34\n00:11:45,491 --> 00:12:01,881\n這個是大家努力的能夠希望將這個成軍讓民眾可以安心可以打擊這些詐騙這是大家一起努力的我們一起努力通過這個打詐司法的時候這個狀況稍微有一點穩住沒有這樣急需的變化變壞\n\n35\n00:12:02,802 --> 00:12:31,602\n院長你講這個就是你真的要加油因為打詐司法之前跟之後我告訴你我們被詐的數字金額是增加的所以你好好的去檢討這一塊接下來本席要告訴你也就是這個假釋的詐欺犯他能夠假釋出來詐騙了300萬他也約與你政府只苛扣了這個7200萬要賺錢的找我這可以嗎\n\n36\n00:12:33,656 --> 00:13:01,151\n請教這可以嗎這剛剛說這可以嗎已經移送雲林地檢數了這可以嗎在8月10幾號已經移送這個案子已經移送雲林當然這個行為絕對不可取而且我們要杜絕就是要對這個案子速查速辦對他已經移送院長你這樣就對了速查速辦不可以這樣子囂張啊他已經移送還可以如此的囂張因為你政府絕對不行\n\n37\n00:13:02,092 --> 00:13:25,872\n挑釁我們民眾這不行的臺灣是一個溫暖的國家是一個安定的國家不容許如此恕神恕敗是不是再接下來假冒公務人員我們不斷的也要宣導但是剛才本席說到的50到69歲的人是對於打仗他不安心的\n\n38\n00:13:26,926 --> 00:13:51,730\n感受最深所以因此也有詐騙的他現在已經是高度的組織化了高度的組織化所以他鎖定什麼高年齡層高年齡層所以政府對於我們這樣子的高年齡層你有什麼方案比如說本席提出的你的電信異常偵測還有你的家屬通知這個都必須在第一時間我們至少還可以防堵\n\n39\n00:13:52,625 --> 00:14:16,840\n院長對於高年齡層這麼受害你認為我們有什麼經濟方案我們對於青年退休的族群以及一些特定的族群我們都把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙的退休就是退休的族群我們把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙集團去引誘的一些對象所以我們用\n\n40\n00:14:18,021 --> 00:14:32,250\n科技的方式來分析把這些族群找出來之後我們現在已經是用至少用一些簡訊通知告訴他們有一些詐騙的行為要他們能夠知道這個陷阱你不要輕易的進入同時也對這些\n\n41\n00:14:33,170 --> 00:14:47,917\n行為的這個潛在的被害人我們透過AI的方式科技的方式把他們找出來給他們施予更多的視乍的教育的都有這麼多的方式但是你的成效是不髒的這表示我們的方法還有精進的\n\n42\n00:14:49,117 --> 00:15:08,292\n這個空間絕對是所以本席具體建議您在下個會期請提出具體的防詐騙的政策目標明確的告知各部會你們的行政你們的行動分工到底要怎麼分工必須要明確讓\n\n43\n00:15:10,393 --> 00:15:27,348\n民眾對於我們檢警調以及我們的政府他是有信任的而且本期要求必須對於我們長者的宣導必須要擴大你能夠做得到嗎好的我們會提出一套完整的方式我請內政部來主辦跟法務部來協辦好謝謝謝謝楊承英委員資訊謝謝卓院長備詢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8450\t13454\t謝謝院會主席楊群發言首先來邀請卓院長再請卓院長備詢\n25849\t48238\t根據官方打炸儀表板的統計我們在114年7月份的時候查獲的炸團有228團 1826人比6月份有少了4團 少了125人但是我們認為成效是有限的查購撲法的部分所得是4億\n50159\t68533\t将近5亿当然比6月份少了一点点少了一成左右所以我们认为到目前为止我们的拦阻金额虽然有到13亿但是跟全国诈骗财损的部分85亿以上还是差距很大\n69233\t74956\t尤其我們從打詐儀錶板的上面我們來看歷史112年是89億他是37,823件113年是502億他的案件是122,805件\n87663\t106599\t那114年今年的1月到7月份呢他總共有10萬件105310件他的金額是565億換句話說今年的上半年就等於是去年在打仗儀表板上面還更多一整年度更多的金額\n107640\t125691\t所以在這樣的情況之下縱使行政院相關單位告訴我們說是計算方式不一樣但是這個是政府公告的打造儀表版所以本席要再請教七月份裡頭我們看到到底是為什麼會有這樣的一個\n126551\t151623\t社会现象产生那7月份涉及网络媒体诈骗的我们当然也努力下架了很多但是诈骗的内容他仍旧在平台里头层出不穷那换句话说显示政府你在行动方面我们还有很大的讨论空间也就是还没有有效的可以去压制这些的犯罪虚拟货币\n153175\t176741\t這一個必傷的一個交易網路平台跟通訊軟體它仍舊是山不管地帶這三方如果沒有有效的來做管理那麼我們打架國家隊呢當然這個成績是得不到民眾的一個信任的所以本席首先提出這樣子的一個背景本來關於給你也就是請教\n177862\t192102\t打詐國家隊運作了將近一年那麼我們為什麼案件跟金額他是不減反增那麼跨境詐騙外交的跟司法的合作我們有什麼精進的方案請說明\n193439\t211746\t我們剛剛說所謂統計數字的不同是從去年的8月之前跟8月之後依照它發生我們採取的太陽不同以前是以一個犯罪行為人一個案件來處理後來我們改變是一個犯罪行為人\n212606\t233497\t騙了十個人就會有十個案件這樣的方式來處理所以數量會有所改變但是本席告訴跟卓院長分享你即使把一件或者是一件拆成十件這些的數字實際上我們民眾對於詐騙非常的恐慌所以我們討論這個數字是沒有意義的我們要聽到方案\n233997\t260700\t跟聽到您的進展這是我們內控上一個考核的機制那剛剛你有說到網路平台啦 通訊軟體啦以及這個虛擬貨幣我們在這個數位的網路平台上面現在我們已經要求這四大的平台Meta、IG、Google還有YouTube再加上Trade五個平台Trade在九月份也會要求它落地管理實名制這樣會有助於我們對於九月份是下個月嗎\n262916\t290644\t對其他都有了 全面四個都有了就是Trade這個部分會在九月份要求他也要照我們新的打炸心法裡面所規定要在這裡落地實名制定在的時間請Trade要在九月份的時候也要強制執行制他必須接受我們的管制那麼另外就是虛擬貨幣這個我們現在當然他的成效比較不明顯因為他到底是一個很新興的一個取代一個貨幣的一個行為但是接著我們這個金管會會從\n292663\t306969\t貨幣發行幣商服務幣商的這個管理讓他成為一個公會讓他納入我們公會的管理之後納入公會的管理從根源來管理 是否這個解讀正確嗎納入公會的管理\n308172\t326464\t從根本來解決我們為他成為一個工會 讓他在裡面第一個是要自律 第二我們用法律上來管理再請這個彭主席來做說明我想剛剛有關那個虛擬資產的先跟委員說明一下我們那個專法在6月27號已經送進 現在在審議中現在已經在加緊審議中\n327725\t351130\t在我們去年11月30號通過了這個登記制以後呢可以行者這部分是我們第一步的管理剛剛院長有提到就是說我們組工會的部分他們我們把就現在所謂的VASP就是虛擬資產業者的工會現在已經開始運作了像比如最近呢我們在5月的時候請問你們這樣的方案要什麼樣什麼時間可以承行因為民眾苦不堪言\n352030\t378349\t其實我們現在的你們有方法給予肯定但是你要告訴我們答案你們一定有你們的KPI你什麼時候公會他可以成行我們政府可以管控去年已經成立已經開始運作像比如說在跟委員報告我們今天5月就看到現金交易的問題我們就直接把現金禁掉所以我們在這一部分我們把這個就做得很有效納管這是其中一個措施\n379050\t389265\t接下來比如說我們對於所有虛擬資產業者的管控我們從原來最高的26到現在的話我們大概只剩下14家因為對不合規的我們全部把它淘汰掉\n390916\t413682\t院長您聽到你的單位主管說是非常有效的管控但是本席告訴你我們在坊間聽到的不一樣的一個方向所以本席剛剛所說的虛擬貨幣我們的幣商交易以及網路平台通訊軟體這三不管地帶你們必須好好的去整合所以因此我要告訴你\n414322\t424429\t對 守法合法的業者納入工會但是我們還有一些非常不守法的在網路世界數位率所以我們還要加強這個部分當然要加強這個部分當然要加強 怎麼加強呢我民眾苦不堪言\n430407\t448565\t已經在做 你好好去經濟好不好也把時間點給我們好不好接下來我要告訴你因為在這個國家政策研究基金會裡頭給你的一個民調也就是在政府打詐司法跟青年方面的44.8%的民眾是認為我們對於打擊詐騙是表示不滿的\n453810\t480393\t其中還有一個更重要的因子也就是50到69歲的族群他是感受最深在這樣的情況之下本席要請教院長就是打詐的成效這個案件跟金額他是雙雙惡化所以民眾會恐慌所以本席要請教的就是說那打詐 詐團他有恃無恐\n481053\t509504\t那你主謀消耗法外金流跟跨境的鏈結你沒有去把它破解那當然民眾是沒有辦法求償所以你們不斷的在宣導說所謂的市詐 賭詐 房詐 主詐 以及懲詐但到目前為止似乎它的成效是不足以去壓制這些犯罪者的行為所以在這邊本席要特別要告訴你一點也就是你跨部會\n510524\t522891\t跨部會本來你們從打造辦公室然後改制為指揮中心從去年的8月27號你的指揮中心但是你跨部會的整合你滿意嗎院長你滿意嗎\n525492\t547599\t他們逐步在推動是各種的事務逐步的在推動我們已經一年了人員的部分我們會適度的加強人員部分要適度加強表示你也不滿意嘛提到剛剛法制化的問題也是我們現在在想的方式如果提升它的效率這是一年指揮中心正式成立一年之後院長你告訴我們的\n548459\t564360\t我們也民眾是苦不堪言的情況之下我們希望政府有方法能夠保護民眾所以本席具體建議跨部會的協調是失靈的因為金管會 NCC 警政 移民 外交它各自為政嘛\n564921\t584115\t他沒有共享資源沒有共享資訊所以他當然沒有辦法有一個美好的成果一個成效出來所以本席要特別請教未來在整個跨部會的一個綻合資源裡頭你要怎麼做我覺得本席希望聽到這個部分請說明\n585580\t593895\t我們現在打造指揮中心有新的指揮官他全力的在做這些內部的管控問題那麼我們的165專線將來會做更多的\n597113\t625339\t平行的整合如果我們有一天這個165跟打炸這個把它法制化之後會更進一步符合剛剛委員所說的165法制化什麼時候要法制化我們就朝這個方向什麼時候請教院長那剛剛已經指示內政部盡快就近期的對這些人員的一些鼓勵方面近期擬定一個方法出來那麼把它法制化的過程現在也提出一個方式我們正在審議中正在考慮當中\n625998\t640286\t正在考慮跟審議當中 你要盡快要盡快 你有沒有你的指標預計在什麼時候可以成行我已經指示內政部 請內政部盡快來提出一個方案內政部有時間點嗎可以告訴我們民眾嗎\n642234\t658572\t我們不能讓這個空窗期這麼長啊不會 我知道大家都非常的殷切期盼所以我這個會請內政部儘速完成儘速完成所以現在沒有辦法時間告訴我們法治化必須要有一個過程所以你也把這個繳成\n660214\t687685\t可以同步進行的 同步進行儘快告訴我們 儘快讓民眾可以安心我們拭目以待同時我要給院長說明的 打仗司法的時候包括了科技偵查當時我們不分藍綠白一起好好的幫助這個國家能夠讓人民安心所以甚至在整個科技偵查裡頭大家努力的協商終於也放在刑事訴訟法裡頭的專章裡頭\n689326\t704751\t甚至本席所提案的我們的洗錢防治法15條之一之二也就是事先將這些你沒有理由的在收集這些帳號那你就要出動了我們用法讓執行者有所依歸有能夠有成效\n705491\t721881\t這個是大家努力的能夠希望將這個成軍讓民眾可以安心可以打擊這些詐騙這是大家一起努力的我們一起努力通過這個打詐司法的時候這個狀況稍微有一點穩住沒有這樣急需的變化變壞\n722802\t751602\t院長你講這個就是你真的要加油因為打詐司法之前跟之後我告訴你我們被詐的數字金額是增加的所以你好好的去檢討這一塊接下來本席要告訴你也就是這個假釋的詐欺犯他能夠假釋出來詐騙了300萬他也約與你政府只苛扣了這個7200萬要賺錢的找我這可以嗎\n753656\t781151\t請教這可以嗎這剛剛說這可以嗎已經移送雲林地檢數了這可以嗎在8月10幾號已經移送這個案子已經移送雲林當然這個行為絕對不可取而且我們要杜絕就是要對這個案子速查速辦對他已經移送院長你這樣就對了速查速辦不可以這樣子囂張啊他已經移送還可以如此的囂張因為你政府絕對不行\n782092\t805872\t挑釁我們民眾 這不行的臺灣是一個溫暖的國家是一個安定的國家不容許如此 恕神恕敗 是不是再接下來假冒公務人員我們不斷的也要宣導但是剛才本席說到的50到69歲的人是對於打仗他不安心的\n806926\t831730\t感受最深所以因此也有詐騙的他現在已經是高度的組織化了高度的組織化所以他鎖定什麼高年齡層高年齡層所以政府對於我們這樣子的高年齡層你有什麼方案比如說本席提出的你的電信異常偵測還有你的家屬通知這個都必須在第一時間我們至少還可以防堵\n832625\t856840\t院長對於高年齡層這麼受害你認為我們有什麼經濟方案我們對於青年退休的族群以及一些特定的族群我們都把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙的退休就是退休的族群我們把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙集團去引誘的一些對象所以我們用\n858021\t872250\t科技的方式來分析把這些族群找出來之後我們現在已經是用至少用一些簡訊通知告訴他們有一些詐騙的行為要他們能夠知道這個陷阱你不要輕易的進入同時也對這些\n873170\t887917\t行為的這個潛在的被害人我們透過AI的方式 科技的方式把他們找出來給他們施予更多的視乍的教育的都有這麼多的方式但是你的成效是不髒的這表示我們的方法還有精進的\n889117\t908292\t這個空間絕對是所以本席具體建議您在下個會期請提出具體的防詐騙的政策目標明確的告知各部會你們的行政你們的行動分工到底要怎麼分工必須要明確讓\n910393\t927348\t民眾對於我們檢警調以及我們的政府他是有信任的而且本期要求必須對於我們長者的宣導必須要擴大你能夠做得到嗎好的我們會提出一套完整的方式我請內政部來主辦跟法務部來協辦好謝謝謝謝楊承英委員資訊謝謝卓院長備詢\n","txt":"謝謝院會主席楊群發言首先來邀請卓院長再請卓院長備詢\n根據官方打炸儀表板的統計我們在114年7月份的時候查獲的炸團有228團 1826人比6月份有少了4團 少了125人但是我們認為成效是有限的查購撲法的部分所得是4億\n将近5亿当然比6月份少了一点点少了一成左右所以我们认为到目前为止我们的拦阻金额虽然有到13亿但是跟全国诈骗财损的部分85亿以上还是差距很大\n尤其我們從打詐儀錶板的上面我們來看歷史112年是89億他是37,823件113年是502億他的案件是122,805件\n那114年今年的1月到7月份呢他總共有10萬件105310件他的金額是565億換句話說今年的上半年就等於是去年在打仗儀表板上面還更多一整年度更多的金額\n所以在這樣的情況之下縱使行政院相關單位告訴我們說是計算方式不一樣但是這個是政府公告的打造儀表版所以本席要再請教七月份裡頭我們看到到底是為什麼會有這樣的一個\n社会现象产生那7月份涉及网络媒体诈骗的我们当然也努力下架了很多但是诈骗的内容他仍旧在平台里头层出不穷那换句话说显示政府你在行动方面我们还有很大的讨论空间也就是还没有有效的可以去压制这些的犯罪虚拟货币\n這一個必傷的一個交易網路平台跟通訊軟體它仍舊是山不管地帶這三方如果沒有有效的來做管理那麼我們打架國家隊呢當然這個成績是得不到民眾的一個信任的所以本席首先提出這樣子的一個背景本來關於給你也就是請教\n打詐國家隊運作了將近一年那麼我們為什麼案件跟金額他是不減反增那麼跨境詐騙外交的跟司法的合作我們有什麼精進的方案請說明\n我們剛剛說所謂統計數字的不同是從去年的8月之前跟8月之後依照它發生我們採取的太陽不同以前是以一個犯罪行為人一個案件來處理後來我們改變是一個犯罪行為人\n騙了十個人就會有十個案件這樣的方式來處理所以數量會有所改變但是本席告訴跟卓院長分享你即使把一件或者是一件拆成十件這些的數字實際上我們民眾對於詐騙非常的恐慌所以我們討論這個數字是沒有意義的我們要聽到方案\n跟聽到您的進展這是我們內控上一個考核的機制那剛剛你有說到網路平台啦 通訊軟體啦以及這個虛擬貨幣我們在這個數位的網路平台上面現在我們已經要求這四大的平台Meta、IG、Google還有YouTube再加上Trade五個平台Trade在九月份也會要求它落地管理實名制這樣會有助於我們對於九月份是下個月嗎\n對其他都有了 全面四個都有了就是Trade這個部分會在九月份要求他也要照我們新的打炸心法裡面所規定要在這裡落地實名制定在的時間請Trade要在九月份的時候也要強制執行制他必須接受我們的管制那麼另外就是虛擬貨幣這個我們現在當然他的成效比較不明顯因為他到底是一個很新興的一個取代一個貨幣的一個行為但是接著我們這個金管會會從\n貨幣發行幣商服務幣商的這個管理讓他成為一個公會讓他納入我們公會的管理之後納入公會的管理從根源來管理 是否這個解讀正確嗎納入公會的管理\n從根本來解決我們為他成為一個工會 讓他在裡面第一個是要自律 第二我們用法律上來管理再請這個彭主席來做說明我想剛剛有關那個虛擬資產的先跟委員說明一下我們那個專法在6月27號已經送進 現在在審議中現在已經在加緊審議中\n在我們去年11月30號通過了這個登記制以後呢可以行者這部分是我們第一步的管理剛剛院長有提到就是說我們組工會的部分他們我們把就現在所謂的VASP就是虛擬資產業者的工會現在已經開始運作了像比如最近呢我們在5月的時候請問你們這樣的方案要什麼樣什麼時間可以承行因為民眾苦不堪言\n其實我們現在的你們有方法給予肯定但是你要告訴我們答案你們一定有你們的KPI你什麼時候公會他可以成行我們政府可以管控去年已經成立已經開始運作像比如說在跟委員報告我們今天5月就看到現金交易的問題我們就直接把現金禁掉所以我們在這一部分我們把這個就做得很有效納管這是其中一個措施\n接下來比如說我們對於所有虛擬資產業者的管控我們從原來最高的26到現在的話我們大概只剩下14家因為對不合規的我們全部把它淘汰掉\n院長您聽到你的單位主管說是非常有效的管控但是本席告訴你我們在坊間聽到的不一樣的一個方向所以本席剛剛所說的虛擬貨幣我們的幣商交易以及網路平台通訊軟體這三不管地帶你們必須好好的去整合所以因此我要告訴你\n對 守法合法的業者納入工會但是我們還有一些非常不守法的在網路世界數位率所以我們還要加強這個部分當然要加強這個部分當然要加強 怎麼加強呢我民眾苦不堪言\n已經在做 你好好去經濟好不好也把時間點給我們好不好接下來我要告訴你因為在這個國家政策研究基金會裡頭給你的一個民調也就是在政府打詐司法跟青年方面的44.8%的民眾是認為我們對於打擊詐騙是表示不滿的\n其中還有一個更重要的因子也就是50到69歲的族群他是感受最深在這樣的情況之下本席要請教院長就是打詐的成效這個案件跟金額他是雙雙惡化所以民眾會恐慌所以本席要請教的就是說那打詐 詐團他有恃無恐\n那你主謀消耗法外金流跟跨境的鏈結你沒有去把它破解那當然民眾是沒有辦法求償所以你們不斷的在宣導說所謂的市詐 賭詐 房詐 主詐 以及懲詐但到目前為止似乎它的成效是不足以去壓制這些犯罪者的行為所以在這邊本席要特別要告訴你一點也就是你跨部會\n跨部會本來你們從打造辦公室然後改制為指揮中心從去年的8月27號你的指揮中心但是你跨部會的整合你滿意嗎院長你滿意嗎\n他們逐步在推動是各種的事務逐步的在推動我們已經一年了人員的部分我們會適度的加強人員部分要適度加強表示你也不滿意嘛提到剛剛法制化的問題也是我們現在在想的方式如果提升它的效率這是一年指揮中心正式成立一年之後院長你告訴我們的\n我們也民眾是苦不堪言的情況之下我們希望政府有方法能夠保護民眾所以本席具體建議跨部會的協調是失靈的因為金管會 NCC 警政 移民 外交它各自為政嘛\n他沒有共享資源沒有共享資訊所以他當然沒有辦法有一個美好的成果一個成效出來所以本席要特別請教未來在整個跨部會的一個綻合資源裡頭你要怎麼做我覺得本席希望聽到這個部分請說明\n我們現在打造指揮中心有新的指揮官他全力的在做這些內部的管控問題那麼我們的165專線將來會做更多的\n平行的整合如果我們有一天這個165跟打炸這個把它法制化之後會更進一步符合剛剛委員所說的165法制化什麼時候要法制化我們就朝這個方向什麼時候請教院長那剛剛已經指示內政部盡快就近期的對這些人員的一些鼓勵方面近期擬定一個方法出來那麼把它法制化的過程現在也提出一個方式我們正在審議中正在考慮當中\n正在考慮跟審議當中 你要盡快要盡快 你有沒有你的指標預計在什麼時候可以成行我已經指示內政部 請內政部盡快來提出一個方案內政部有時間點嗎可以告訴我們民眾嗎\n我們不能讓這個空窗期這麼長啊不會 我知道大家都非常的殷切期盼所以我這個會請內政部儘速完成儘速完成所以現在沒有辦法時間告訴我們法治化必須要有一個過程所以你也把這個繳成\n可以同步進行的 同步進行儘快告訴我們 儘快讓民眾可以安心我們拭目以待同時我要給院長說明的 打仗司法的時候包括了科技偵查當時我們不分藍綠白一起好好的幫助這個國家能夠讓人民安心所以甚至在整個科技偵查裡頭大家努力的協商終於也放在刑事訴訟法裡頭的專章裡頭\n甚至本席所提案的我們的洗錢防治法15條之一之二也就是事先將這些你沒有理由的在收集這些帳號那你就要出動了我們用法讓執行者有所依歸有能夠有成效\n這個是大家努力的能夠希望將這個成軍讓民眾可以安心可以打擊這些詐騙這是大家一起努力的我們一起努力通過這個打詐司法的時候這個狀況稍微有一點穩住沒有這樣急需的變化變壞\n院長你講這個就是你真的要加油因為打詐司法之前跟之後我告訴你我們被詐的數字金額是增加的所以你好好的去檢討這一塊接下來本席要告訴你也就是這個假釋的詐欺犯他能夠假釋出來詐騙了300萬他也約與你政府只苛扣了這個7200萬要賺錢的找我這可以嗎\n請教這可以嗎這剛剛說這可以嗎已經移送雲林地檢數了這可以嗎在8月10幾號已經移送這個案子已經移送雲林當然這個行為絕對不可取而且我們要杜絕就是要對這個案子速查速辦對他已經移送院長你這樣就對了速查速辦不可以這樣子囂張啊他已經移送還可以如此的囂張因為你政府絕對不行\n挑釁我們民眾 這不行的臺灣是一個溫暖的國家是一個安定的國家不容許如此 恕神恕敗 是不是再接下來假冒公務人員我們不斷的也要宣導但是剛才本席說到的50到69歲的人是對於打仗他不安心的\n感受最深所以因此也有詐騙的他現在已經是高度的組織化了高度的組織化所以他鎖定什麼高年齡層高年齡層所以政府對於我們這樣子的高年齡層你有什麼方案比如說本席提出的你的電信異常偵測還有你的家屬通知這個都必須在第一時間我們至少還可以防堵\n院長對於高年齡層這麼受害你認為我們有什麼經濟方案我們對於青年退休的族群以及一些特定的族群我們都把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙的退休就是退休的族群我們把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙集團去引誘的一些對象所以我們用\n科技的方式來分析把這些族群找出來之後我們現在已經是用至少用一些簡訊通知告訴他們有一些詐騙的行為要他們能夠知道這個陷阱你不要輕易的進入同時也對這些\n行為的這個潛在的被害人我們透過AI的方式 科技的方式把他們找出來給他們施予更多的視乍的教育的都有這麼多的方式但是你的成效是不髒的這表示我們的方法還有精進的\n這個空間絕對是所以本席具體建議您在下個會期請提出具體的防詐騙的政策目標明確的告知各部會你們的行政你們的行動分工到底要怎麼分工必須要明確讓\n民眾對於我們檢警調以及我們的政府他是有信任的而且本期要求必須對於我們長者的宣導必須要擴大你能夠做得到嗎好的我們會提出一套完整的方式我請內政部來主辦跟法務部來協辦好謝謝謝謝楊承英委員資訊謝謝卓院長備詢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.450 --> 00:13.454\n謝謝院會主席楊群發言首先來邀請卓院長再請卓院長備詢\n\n00:25.849 --> 00:48.238\n根據官方打炸儀表板的統計我們在114年7月份的時候查獲的炸團有228團1826人比6月份有少了4團少了125人但是我們認為成效是有限的查購撲法的部分所得是4億\n\n00:50.159 --> 01:08.533\n将近5亿当然比6月份少了一点点少了一成左右所以我们认为到目前为止我们的拦阻金额虽然有到13亿但是跟全国诈骗财损的部分85亿以上还是差距很大\n\n01:09.233 --> 01:14.956\n尤其我們從打詐儀錶板的上面我們來看歷史112年是89億他是37,823件113年是502億他的案件是122,805件\n\n01:27.663 --> 01:46.599\n那114年今年的1月到7月份呢他總共有10萬件105310件他的金額是565億換句話說今年的上半年就等於是去年在打仗儀表板上面還更多一整年度更多的金額\n\n01:47.640 --> 02:05.691\n所以在這樣的情況之下縱使行政院相關單位告訴我們說是計算方式不一樣但是這個是政府公告的打造儀表版所以本席要再請教七月份裡頭我們看到到底是為什麼會有這樣的一個\n\n02:06.551 --> 02:31.623\n社会现象产生那7月份涉及网络媒体诈骗的我们当然也努力下架了很多但是诈骗的内容他仍旧在平台里头层出不穷那换句话说显示政府你在行动方面我们还有很大的讨论空间也就是还没有有效的可以去压制这些的犯罪虚拟货币\n\n02:33.175 --> 02:56.741\n這一個必傷的一個交易網路平台跟通訊軟體它仍舊是山不管地帶這三方如果沒有有效的來做管理那麼我們打架國家隊呢當然這個成績是得不到民眾的一個信任的所以本席首先提出這樣子的一個背景本來關於給你也就是請教\n\n02:57.862 --> 03:12.102\n打詐國家隊運作了將近一年那麼我們為什麼案件跟金額他是不減反增那麼跨境詐騙外交的跟司法的合作我們有什麼精進的方案請說明\n\n03:13.439 --> 03:31.746\n我們剛剛說所謂統計數字的不同是從去年的8月之前跟8月之後依照它發生我們採取的太陽不同以前是以一個犯罪行為人一個案件來處理後來我們改變是一個犯罪行為人\n\n03:32.606 --> 03:53.497\n騙了十個人就會有十個案件這樣的方式來處理所以數量會有所改變但是本席告訴跟卓院長分享你即使把一件或者是一件拆成十件這些的數字實際上我們民眾對於詐騙非常的恐慌所以我們討論這個數字是沒有意義的我們要聽到方案\n\n03:53.997 --> 04:20.700\n跟聽到您的進展這是我們內控上一個考核的機制那剛剛你有說到網路平台啦通訊軟體啦以及這個虛擬貨幣我們在這個數位的網路平台上面現在我們已經要求這四大的平台Meta、IG、Google還有YouTube再加上Trade五個平台Trade在九月份也會要求它落地管理實名制這樣會有助於我們對於九月份是下個月嗎\n\n04:22.916 --> 04:50.644\n對其他都有了全面四個都有了就是Trade這個部分會在九月份要求他也要照我們新的打炸心法裡面所規定要在這裡落地實名制定在的時間請Trade要在九月份的時候也要強制執行制他必須接受我們的管制那麼另外就是虛擬貨幣這個我們現在當然他的成效比較不明顯因為他到底是一個很新興的一個取代一個貨幣的一個行為但是接著我們這個金管會會從\n\n04:52.663 --> 05:06.969\n貨幣發行幣商服務幣商的這個管理讓他成為一個公會讓他納入我們公會的管理之後納入公會的管理從根源來管理是否這個解讀正確嗎納入公會的管理\n\n05:08.172 --> 05:26.464\n從根本來解決我們為他成為一個工會讓他在裡面第一個是要自律第二我們用法律上來管理再請這個彭主席來做說明我想剛剛有關那個虛擬資產的先跟委員說明一下我們那個專法在6月27號已經送進現在在審議中現在已經在加緊審議中\n\n05:27.725 --> 05:51.130\n在我們去年11月30號通過了這個登記制以後呢可以行者這部分是我們第一步的管理剛剛院長有提到就是說我們組工會的部分他們我們把就現在所謂的VASP就是虛擬資產業者的工會現在已經開始運作了像比如最近呢我們在5月的時候請問你們這樣的方案要什麼樣什麼時間可以承行因為民眾苦不堪言\n\n05:52.030 --> 06:18.349\n其實我們現在的你們有方法給予肯定但是你要告訴我們答案你們一定有你們的KPI你什麼時候公會他可以成行我們政府可以管控去年已經成立已經開始運作像比如說在跟委員報告我們今天5月就看到現金交易的問題我們就直接把現金禁掉所以我們在這一部分我們把這個就做得很有效納管這是其中一個措施\n\n06:19.050 --> 06:29.265\n接下來比如說我們對於所有虛擬資產業者的管控我們從原來最高的26到現在的話我們大概只剩下14家因為對不合規的我們全部把它淘汰掉\n\n06:30.916 --> 06:53.682\n院長您聽到你的單位主管說是非常有效的管控但是本席告訴你我們在坊間聽到的不一樣的一個方向所以本席剛剛所說的虛擬貨幣我們的幣商交易以及網路平台通訊軟體這三不管地帶你們必須好好的去整合所以因此我要告訴你\n\n06:54.322 --> 07:04.429\n對守法合法的業者納入工會但是我們還有一些非常不守法的在網路世界數位率所以我們還要加強這個部分當然要加強這個部分當然要加強怎麼加強呢我民眾苦不堪言\n\n07:10.407 --> 07:28.565\n已經在做你好好去經濟好不好也把時間點給我們好不好接下來我要告訴你因為在這個國家政策研究基金會裡頭給你的一個民調也就是在政府打詐司法跟青年方面的44.8%的民眾是認為我們對於打擊詐騙是表示不滿的\n\n07:33.810 --> 08:00.393\n其中還有一個更重要的因子也就是50到69歲的族群他是感受最深在這樣的情況之下本席要請教院長就是打詐的成效這個案件跟金額他是雙雙惡化所以民眾會恐慌所以本席要請教的就是說那打詐詐團他有恃無恐\n\n08:01.053 --> 08:29.504\n那你主謀消耗法外金流跟跨境的鏈結你沒有去把它破解那當然民眾是沒有辦法求償所以你們不斷的在宣導說所謂的市詐賭詐房詐主詐以及懲詐但到目前為止似乎它的成效是不足以去壓制這些犯罪者的行為所以在這邊本席要特別要告訴你一點也就是你跨部會\n\n08:30.524 --> 08:42.891\n跨部會本來你們從打造辦公室然後改制為指揮中心從去年的8月27號你的指揮中心但是你跨部會的整合你滿意嗎院長你滿意嗎\n\n08:45.492 --> 09:07.599\n他們逐步在推動是各種的事務逐步的在推動我們已經一年了人員的部分我們會適度的加強人員部分要適度加強表示你也不滿意嘛提到剛剛法制化的問題也是我們現在在想的方式如果提升它的效率這是一年指揮中心正式成立一年之後院長你告訴我們的\n\n09:08.459 --> 09:24.360\n我們也民眾是苦不堪言的情況之下我們希望政府有方法能夠保護民眾所以本席具體建議跨部會的協調是失靈的因為金管會NCC警政移民外交它各自為政嘛\n\n09:24.921 --> 09:44.115\n他沒有共享資源沒有共享資訊所以他當然沒有辦法有一個美好的成果一個成效出來所以本席要特別請教未來在整個跨部會的一個綻合資源裡頭你要怎麼做我覺得本席希望聽到這個部分請說明\n\n09:45.580 --> 09:53.895\n我們現在打造指揮中心有新的指揮官他全力的在做這些內部的管控問題那麼我們的165專線將來會做更多的\n\n09:57.113 --> 10:25.339\n平行的整合如果我們有一天這個165跟打炸這個把它法制化之後會更進一步符合剛剛委員所說的165法制化什麼時候要法制化我們就朝這個方向什麼時候請教院長那剛剛已經指示內政部盡快就近期的對這些人員的一些鼓勵方面近期擬定一個方法出來那麼把它法制化的過程現在也提出一個方式我們正在審議中正在考慮當中\n\n10:25.998 --> 10:40.286\n正在考慮跟審議當中你要盡快要盡快你有沒有你的指標預計在什麼時候可以成行我已經指示內政部請內政部盡快來提出一個方案內政部有時間點嗎可以告訴我們民眾嗎\n\n10:42.234 --> 10:58.572\n我們不能讓這個空窗期這麼長啊不會我知道大家都非常的殷切期盼所以我這個會請內政部儘速完成儘速完成所以現在沒有辦法時間告訴我們法治化必須要有一個過程所以你也把這個繳成\n\n11:00.214 --> 11:27.685\n可以同步進行的同步進行儘快告訴我們儘快讓民眾可以安心我們拭目以待同時我要給院長說明的打仗司法的時候包括了科技偵查當時我們不分藍綠白一起好好的幫助這個國家能夠讓人民安心所以甚至在整個科技偵查裡頭大家努力的協商終於也放在刑事訴訟法裡頭的專章裡頭\n\n11:29.326 --> 11:44.751\n甚至本席所提案的我們的洗錢防治法15條之一之二也就是事先將這些你沒有理由的在收集這些帳號那你就要出動了我們用法讓執行者有所依歸有能夠有成效\n\n11:45.491 --> 12:01.881\n這個是大家努力的能夠希望將這個成軍讓民眾可以安心可以打擊這些詐騙這是大家一起努力的我們一起努力通過這個打詐司法的時候這個狀況稍微有一點穩住沒有這樣急需的變化變壞\n\n12:02.802 --> 12:31.602\n院長你講這個就是你真的要加油因為打詐司法之前跟之後我告訴你我們被詐的數字金額是增加的所以你好好的去檢討這一塊接下來本席要告訴你也就是這個假釋的詐欺犯他能夠假釋出來詐騙了300萬他也約與你政府只苛扣了這個7200萬要賺錢的找我這可以嗎\n\n12:33.656 --> 13:01.151\n請教這可以嗎這剛剛說這可以嗎已經移送雲林地檢數了這可以嗎在8月10幾號已經移送這個案子已經移送雲林當然這個行為絕對不可取而且我們要杜絕就是要對這個案子速查速辦對他已經移送院長你這樣就對了速查速辦不可以這樣子囂張啊他已經移送還可以如此的囂張因為你政府絕對不行\n\n13:02.092 --> 13:25.872\n挑釁我們民眾這不行的臺灣是一個溫暖的國家是一個安定的國家不容許如此恕神恕敗是不是再接下來假冒公務人員我們不斷的也要宣導但是剛才本席說到的50到69歲的人是對於打仗他不安心的\n\n13:26.926 --> 13:51.730\n感受最深所以因此也有詐騙的他現在已經是高度的組織化了高度的組織化所以他鎖定什麼高年齡層高年齡層所以政府對於我們這樣子的高年齡層你有什麼方案比如說本席提出的你的電信異常偵測還有你的家屬通知這個都必須在第一時間我們至少還可以防堵\n\n13:52.625 --> 14:16.840\n院長對於高年齡層這麼受害你認為我們有什麼經濟方案我們對於青年退休的族群以及一些特定的族群我們都把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙的退休就是退休的族群我們把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙集團去引誘的一些對象所以我們用\n\n14:18.021 --> 14:32.250\n科技的方式來分析把這些族群找出來之後我們現在已經是用至少用一些簡訊通知告訴他們有一些詐騙的行為要他們能夠知道這個陷阱你不要輕易的進入同時也對這些\n\n14:33.170 --> 14:47.917\n行為的這個潛在的被害人我們透過AI的方式科技的方式把他們找出來給他們施予更多的視乍的教育的都有這麼多的方式但是你的成效是不髒的這表示我們的方法還有精進的\n\n14:49.117 --> 15:08.292\n這個空間絕對是所以本席具體建議您在下個會期請提出具體的防詐騙的政策目標明確的告知各部會你們的行政你們的行動分工到底要怎麼分工必須要明確讓\n\n15:10.393 --> 15:27.348\n民眾對於我們檢警調以及我們的政府他是有信任的而且本期要求必須對於我們長者的宣導必須要擴大你能夠做得到嗎好的我們會提出一套完整的方式我請內政部來主辦跟法務部來協辦好謝謝謝謝楊承英委員資訊謝謝卓院長備詢\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.45,"end":13.454,"text":"謝謝院會主席楊群發言首先來邀請卓院長再請卓院長備詢"},{"start":25.849,"end":48.238,"text":"根據官方打炸儀表板的統計我們在114年7月份的時候查獲的炸團有228團 1826人比6月份有少了4團 少了125人但是我們認為成效是有限的查購撲法的部分所得是4億"},{"start":50.159,"end":68.533,"text":"将近5亿当然比6月份少了一点点少了一成左右所以我们认为到目前为止我们的拦阻金额虽然有到13亿但是跟全国诈骗财损的部分85亿以上还是差距很大"},{"start":69.233,"end":74.956,"text":"尤其我們從打詐儀錶板的上面我們來看歷史112年是89億他是37,823件113年是502億他的案件是122,805件"},{"start":87.663,"end":106.599,"text":"那114年今年的1月到7月份呢他總共有10萬件105310件他的金額是565億換句話說今年的上半年就等於是去年在打仗儀表板上面還更多一整年度更多的金額"},{"start":107.64,"end":125.691,"text":"所以在這樣的情況之下縱使行政院相關單位告訴我們說是計算方式不一樣但是這個是政府公告的打造儀表版所以本席要再請教七月份裡頭我們看到到底是為什麼會有這樣的一個"},{"start":126.551,"end":151.623,"text":"社会现象产生那7月份涉及网络媒体诈骗的我们当然也努力下架了很多但是诈骗的内容他仍旧在平台里头层出不穷那换句话说显示政府你在行动方面我们还有很大的讨论空间也就是还没有有效的可以去压制这些的犯罪虚拟货币"},{"start":153.175,"end":176.741,"text":"這一個必傷的一個交易網路平台跟通訊軟體它仍舊是山不管地帶這三方如果沒有有效的來做管理那麼我們打架國家隊呢當然這個成績是得不到民眾的一個信任的所以本席首先提出這樣子的一個背景本來關於給你也就是請教"},{"start":177.862,"end":192.102,"text":"打詐國家隊運作了將近一年那麼我們為什麼案件跟金額他是不減反增那麼跨境詐騙外交的跟司法的合作我們有什麼精進的方案請說明"},{"start":193.439,"end":211.746,"text":"我們剛剛說所謂統計數字的不同是從去年的8月之前跟8月之後依照它發生我們採取的太陽不同以前是以一個犯罪行為人一個案件來處理後來我們改變是一個犯罪行為人"},{"start":212.606,"end":233.497,"text":"騙了十個人就會有十個案件這樣的方式來處理所以數量會有所改變但是本席告訴跟卓院長分享你即使把一件或者是一件拆成十件這些的數字實際上我們民眾對於詐騙非常的恐慌所以我們討論這個數字是沒有意義的我們要聽到方案"},{"start":233.997,"end":260.7,"text":"跟聽到您的進展這是我們內控上一個考核的機制那剛剛你有說到網路平台啦 通訊軟體啦以及這個虛擬貨幣我們在這個數位的網路平台上面現在我們已經要求這四大的平台Meta、IG、Google還有YouTube再加上Trade五個平台Trade在九月份也會要求它落地管理實名制這樣會有助於我們對於九月份是下個月嗎"},{"start":262.916,"end":290.644,"text":"對其他都有了 全面四個都有了就是Trade這個部分會在九月份要求他也要照我們新的打炸心法裡面所規定要在這裡落地實名制定在的時間請Trade要在九月份的時候也要強制執行制他必須接受我們的管制那麼另外就是虛擬貨幣這個我們現在當然他的成效比較不明顯因為他到底是一個很新興的一個取代一個貨幣的一個行為但是接著我們這個金管會會從"},{"start":292.663,"end":306.969,"text":"貨幣發行幣商服務幣商的這個管理讓他成為一個公會讓他納入我們公會的管理之後納入公會的管理從根源來管理 是否這個解讀正確嗎納入公會的管理"},{"start":308.172,"end":326.464,"text":"從根本來解決我們為他成為一個工會 讓他在裡面第一個是要自律 第二我們用法律上來管理再請這個彭主席來做說明我想剛剛有關那個虛擬資產的先跟委員說明一下我們那個專法在6月27號已經送進 現在在審議中現在已經在加緊審議中"},{"start":327.725,"end":351.13,"text":"在我們去年11月30號通過了這個登記制以後呢可以行者這部分是我們第一步的管理剛剛院長有提到就是說我們組工會的部分他們我們把就現在所謂的VASP就是虛擬資產業者的工會現在已經開始運作了像比如最近呢我們在5月的時候請問你們這樣的方案要什麼樣什麼時間可以承行因為民眾苦不堪言"},{"start":352.03,"end":378.349,"text":"其實我們現在的你們有方法給予肯定但是你要告訴我們答案你們一定有你們的KPI你什麼時候公會他可以成行我們政府可以管控去年已經成立已經開始運作像比如說在跟委員報告我們今天5月就看到現金交易的問題我們就直接把現金禁掉所以我們在這一部分我們把這個就做得很有效納管這是其中一個措施"},{"start":379.05,"end":389.265,"text":"接下來比如說我們對於所有虛擬資產業者的管控我們從原來最高的26到現在的話我們大概只剩下14家因為對不合規的我們全部把它淘汰掉"},{"start":390.916,"end":413.682,"text":"院長您聽到你的單位主管說是非常有效的管控但是本席告訴你我們在坊間聽到的不一樣的一個方向所以本席剛剛所說的虛擬貨幣我們的幣商交易以及網路平台通訊軟體這三不管地帶你們必須好好的去整合所以因此我要告訴你"},{"start":414.322,"end":424.429,"text":"對 守法合法的業者納入工會但是我們還有一些非常不守法的在網路世界數位率所以我們還要加強這個部分當然要加強這個部分當然要加強 怎麼加強呢我民眾苦不堪言"},{"start":430.407,"end":448.565,"text":"已經在做 你好好去經濟好不好也把時間點給我們好不好接下來我要告訴你因為在這個國家政策研究基金會裡頭給你的一個民調也就是在政府打詐司法跟青年方面的44.8%的民眾是認為我們對於打擊詐騙是表示不滿的"},{"start":453.81,"end":480.393,"text":"其中還有一個更重要的因子也就是50到69歲的族群他是感受最深在這樣的情況之下本席要請教院長就是打詐的成效這個案件跟金額他是雙雙惡化所以民眾會恐慌所以本席要請教的就是說那打詐 詐團他有恃無恐"},{"start":481.053,"end":509.504,"text":"那你主謀消耗法外金流跟跨境的鏈結你沒有去把它破解那當然民眾是沒有辦法求償所以你們不斷的在宣導說所謂的市詐 賭詐 房詐 主詐 以及懲詐但到目前為止似乎它的成效是不足以去壓制這些犯罪者的行為所以在這邊本席要特別要告訴你一點也就是你跨部會"},{"start":510.524,"end":522.891,"text":"跨部會本來你們從打造辦公室然後改制為指揮中心從去年的8月27號你的指揮中心但是你跨部會的整合你滿意嗎院長你滿意嗎"},{"start":525.492,"end":547.599,"text":"他們逐步在推動是各種的事務逐步的在推動我們已經一年了人員的部分我們會適度的加強人員部分要適度加強表示你也不滿意嘛提到剛剛法制化的問題也是我們現在在想的方式如果提升它的效率這是一年指揮中心正式成立一年之後院長你告訴我們的"},{"start":548.459,"end":564.36,"text":"我們也民眾是苦不堪言的情況之下我們希望政府有方法能夠保護民眾所以本席具體建議跨部會的協調是失靈的因為金管會 NCC 警政 移民 外交它各自為政嘛"},{"start":564.921,"end":584.115,"text":"他沒有共享資源沒有共享資訊所以他當然沒有辦法有一個美好的成果一個成效出來所以本席要特別請教未來在整個跨部會的一個綻合資源裡頭你要怎麼做我覺得本席希望聽到這個部分請說明"},{"start":585.58,"end":593.895,"text":"我們現在打造指揮中心有新的指揮官他全力的在做這些內部的管控問題那麼我們的165專線將來會做更多的"},{"start":597.113,"end":625.339,"text":"平行的整合如果我們有一天這個165跟打炸這個把它法制化之後會更進一步符合剛剛委員所說的165法制化什麼時候要法制化我們就朝這個方向什麼時候請教院長那剛剛已經指示內政部盡快就近期的對這些人員的一些鼓勵方面近期擬定一個方法出來那麼把它法制化的過程現在也提出一個方式我們正在審議中正在考慮當中"},{"start":625.998,"end":640.286,"text":"正在考慮跟審議當中 你要盡快要盡快 你有沒有你的指標預計在什麼時候可以成行我已經指示內政部 請內政部盡快來提出一個方案內政部有時間點嗎可以告訴我們民眾嗎"},{"start":642.234,"end":658.572,"text":"我們不能讓這個空窗期這麼長啊不會 我知道大家都非常的殷切期盼所以我這個會請內政部儘速完成儘速完成所以現在沒有辦法時間告訴我們法治化必須要有一個過程所以你也把這個繳成"},{"start":660.214,"end":687.685,"text":"可以同步進行的 同步進行儘快告訴我們 儘快讓民眾可以安心我們拭目以待同時我要給院長說明的 打仗司法的時候包括了科技偵查當時我們不分藍綠白一起好好的幫助這個國家能夠讓人民安心所以甚至在整個科技偵查裡頭大家努力的協商終於也放在刑事訴訟法裡頭的專章裡頭"},{"start":689.326,"end":704.751,"text":"甚至本席所提案的我們的洗錢防治法15條之一之二也就是事先將這些你沒有理由的在收集這些帳號那你就要出動了我們用法讓執行者有所依歸有能夠有成效"},{"start":705.491,"end":721.881,"text":"這個是大家努力的能夠希望將這個成軍讓民眾可以安心可以打擊這些詐騙這是大家一起努力的我們一起努力通過這個打詐司法的時候這個狀況稍微有一點穩住沒有這樣急需的變化變壞"},{"start":722.802,"end":751.602,"text":"院長你講這個就是你真的要加油因為打詐司法之前跟之後我告訴你我們被詐的數字金額是增加的所以你好好的去檢討這一塊接下來本席要告訴你也就是這個假釋的詐欺犯他能夠假釋出來詐騙了300萬他也約與你政府只苛扣了這個7200萬要賺錢的找我這可以嗎"},{"start":753.656,"end":781.151,"text":"請教這可以嗎這剛剛說這可以嗎已經移送雲林地檢數了這可以嗎在8月10幾號已經移送這個案子已經移送雲林當然這個行為絕對不可取而且我們要杜絕就是要對這個案子速查速辦對他已經移送院長你這樣就對了速查速辦不可以這樣子囂張啊他已經移送還可以如此的囂張因為你政府絕對不行"},{"start":782.092,"end":805.872,"text":"挑釁我們民眾 這不行的臺灣是一個溫暖的國家是一個安定的國家不容許如此 恕神恕敗 是不是再接下來假冒公務人員我們不斷的也要宣導但是剛才本席說到的50到69歲的人是對於打仗他不安心的"},{"start":806.926,"end":831.73,"text":"感受最深所以因此也有詐騙的他現在已經是高度的組織化了高度的組織化所以他鎖定什麼高年齡層高年齡層所以政府對於我們這樣子的高年齡層你有什麼方案比如說本席提出的你的電信異常偵測還有你的家屬通知這個都必須在第一時間我們至少還可以防堵"},{"start":832.625,"end":856.84,"text":"院長對於高年齡層這麼受害你認為我們有什麼經濟方案我們對於青年退休的族群以及一些特定的族群我們都把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙的退休就是退休的族群我們把它當作一個最容易受到詐騙集團去引誘的一些對象所以我們用"},{"start":858.021,"end":872.25,"text":"科技的方式來分析把這些族群找出來之後我們現在已經是用至少用一些簡訊通知告訴他們有一些詐騙的行為要他們能夠知道這個陷阱你不要輕易的進入同時也對這些"},{"start":873.17,"end":887.917,"text":"行為的這個潛在的被害人我們透過AI的方式 科技的方式把他們找出來給他們施予更多的視乍的教育的都有這麼多的方式但是你的成效是不髒的這表示我們的方法還有精進的"},{"start":889.117,"end":908.292,"text":"這個空間絕對是所以本席具體建議您在下個會期請提出具體的防詐騙的政策目標明確的告知各部會你們的行政你們的行動分工到底要怎麼分工必須要明確讓"},{"start":910.393,"end":927.348,"text":"民眾對於我們檢警調以及我們的政府他是有信任的而且本期要求必須對於我們長者的宣導必須要擴大你能夠做得到嗎好的我們會提出一套完整的方式我請內政部來主辦跟法務部來協辦好謝謝謝謝楊承英委員資訊謝謝卓院長備詢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":365,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（15時52分）謝謝院會主席，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。根據官方打詐儀表板統計，我們在114年7月份查獲詐團228團、1,826人，比6月份少了4團、少了125人，但我們認為成效是有限的；查扣不法所得的部分是四億多，將近五億，當然比6月份少了一點點，少了一成左右。所以我們認為，到目前為止，我們的攔阻金額雖然有到13億，但跟全國詐騙財損的部分85億以上相較還是差距很大。從打詐儀表板上面，我們來看歷史，112年是89億、3萬7,823件；113年是502億元，案件是12萬2,805件；今（114）年1月到7月份總共有10萬5,311件，金額是565億，換句話說，今年上半年就比去年一整年的金額還更多。在這樣的情況之下，縱使行政院相關單位告訴我們是計算方式不一樣，但這是政府公告的打詐儀表板。","所以本席要再請教，7月份裡頭我們看到，到底是為什麼會有這樣的一個社會現象產生？7月份涉及網路媒體詐騙的，我們當然也努力下架了很多，但是詐騙的內容仍舊在各平臺裡頭層出不窮。換句話說，顯示政府在行動方面還有很大的討論空間，也就是還未能有效地去壓制這一些犯罪。虛擬貨幣的幣商交易、網路平臺跟通訊軟體仍舊是三不管地帶，這三方如果未能有效管理，那麼當然我們打詐國家隊的成績是得不到民眾的信任。","本席首先提出這樣的背景給你我要請教，打詐國家隊運作了將近一年，為什麼詐騙案件和金額不減反增？跨境詐騙方面，外交和司法的合作我們又有什麼精進的方案？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們剛剛說所謂統計數字的不同，是從去年8月之前和8月之後，依照它的發生狀況，我們採取的態樣不同，以前是以一個犯罪行為人一個案件來處理，後來改變為一個犯罪行為人騙了十個人就會有十個案件，以這樣的方式來處理，所以數量會有所改變、有所不同。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是本席要跟卓院長分享，即便是一件，或者是把一件拆成十件，這些數字實際上會讓民眾對於詐騙非常恐慌……"],["卓院長榮泰：是，這只是我們內控上面的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我們討論這個數字是沒有意義的，我們要聽到方案以及您的精進！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我剛剛有提到，這是我們內控上一個考核的機制。剛剛您有說到網路平臺、通訊軟體以及虛擬貨幣，在數位網路平臺方面，現在我們已經要求四大平臺──Meta、IG、Google還有YouTube，再加上Threads，總共五個平臺，Threads在9月份也會要求它落地管理、實名制，這樣會有助於我們對這些……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：9月份是下個月嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，其他都有了，前面四個都有了，就是Threads這個部分會在9月份要求它也要照我們打詐新法所規定的，要在這裡落地、實名制。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，deadline的時間請Threads在9月份的時候也要強制執行之。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，它必須接受我們的管制。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，請繼續說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：另外就是虛擬貨幣，這個我們現在……當然，它的成效比較不明顯，因為它畢竟是一個很新興的取代貨幣的行為，但是接下來，我們的金管會會從貨幣發行幣商、服務幣商的管理，讓它成為一個公會，將它納入我們公會的管理，之後我們會……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：納入公會的管理是不是從根源來管理？本席這個解讀正確嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：什麼？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：納入公會的管理，從根本來解決。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會為它成立一個公會，讓它在裡面，第一個是要自律，第二，我們用法律來管理。再請彭主委來說明。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請做說明。"],["彭主任委員金隆：是，報告委員，有關虛擬資產的部分，先跟委員說明一下，我們的專法在6月27日已經送進行政院，現在已經在加緊審議中。其次，我們去年11月30日通過登記制以後，會課以刑責，這部分是我們第一步的管理。","剛剛院長提到組公會的部分，現在所有VASP、虛擬資產業者的公會已經開始運作了，比如說最近，我們在5月就禁止他們用現金交易……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：主委，你們這樣的方案要什麼時間才可以成形？因為民眾苦不堪言。"],["彭主任委員金隆：其實我們現在……"],["卓院長榮泰：現在已經在做了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們有方法，本席要給予肯定，但是你要告訴我們答案，你們一定有你們的KPI啊！什麼時候公會才可以成形啊？"],["彭主任委員金隆：公會已經成形了，已經……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們政府才可以管控啊！"],["彭主任委員金隆：去年已經成立，已經開始運作了。再跟委員報告，比如說我們今年5月就看到一個現金交易的問題，就直接把現金禁掉了，所以我們對這個部分就做了很有效的納管。這是其中一個措施，接下來比如說我們對於所有虛擬資產業者的管控，從原來最高的26家，到現在大概只剩下14家，因為對於不合規的，我們全部把它淘汰掉了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，您聽到你的單位主管說是非常有效的管控，但是本席要告訴你，我們在坊間聽到的是不一樣的方向。本席剛剛所說的虛擬貨幣，幣商交易以及網路平臺、通訊軟體這個三不管地帶，你們必須要好好地去整合。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，我們現在對這些比較……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因此我要告訴你……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們現在將守法、合法的業者納入公會，但是還有一些非常不守法的，在網路世界、數位……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那要怎麼辦呢？你是政府啊！怎麼管控呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們當然要加強這個部分，這樣才能把他們導入正軌。……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：說要加強，怎麼加強呢？我們民眾苦不堪言耶！"],["卓院長榮泰：已經在做……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你們好好去精進好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：也把時間點給我們好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來我要告訴你，國家政策研究基金會有一個民調，指出在政府打詐、司法和清廉方面，有44.8%的民眾對於打擊詐騙是不滿的，其中還有一個更重要的因子，也就是50到69歲的族群感受最深。在這樣的情況之下，本席要請教院長打詐的成效，因為案件和金額雙雙惡化，令民眾感到恐慌，所以本席要請教的就是打詐，但是詐團有恃無恐，主謀逍遙法外，金流跟跨境的鏈結，你沒有去把它破解，當然民眾是求償無門，沒有辦法求償。所以你們不斷的在宣導所謂的識詐、堵詐、防詐、阻詐以及懲詐，但是到目前為止，似乎它的成效是不足以去壓制這些犯罪者的行為。所以在這邊，本席要特別告訴你一點，也就是跨部會，本來你們從打詐辦公室，然後改制為指揮中心，從去年8月27日改制為指揮中心，但是跨部會的整合，你滿意嗎？院長，你滿意嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：他們逐步在推動各種的事務，那麼人員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：逐步在推動？我們已經一年了！"],["卓院長榮泰：人員的部分，我們會適度的加強。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：人員部分要適度加強，表示你也不滿意嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛也一直提到法制化的問題，也是我們現在在想的方式，如何提升它的效率。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這是指揮中心正式成立一年之後，院長告訴我們的，在民眾苦不堪言的情況之下，我們希望政府有方法能夠保護民眾，所以本席具體建議，跨部會的協調是失靈的，因為金管會、NCC、警政、移民、外交各自為政，沒有共享資源、沒有共享資訊，所以它當然沒有辦法有一個美好的成果、有一個成效出來，所以本席要特別請教，未來在整個跨部會的整合資源裡頭，你要怎麼做？本席希望聽到這個部分，請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在我們打詐指揮中心有新的指揮官，他全力的在做這些內部的管控問題，那麼我們165專線將來會做更多平行的整合，如果我們有一天把165跟打詐指揮中心法制化之後，會更進一步符合剛剛委員所說的，現在我們是朝……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：165法制化，什麼時候要法制化？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們就朝這個方向在進行。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：什麼時候？請教院長，165法制化。"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛我已經指示內政部儘快對於這些人員的鼓勵方面，近期擬定一個方法出來，把它法制化的過程，現在也提出一個方式，我們正在審議中，正在考慮當中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：正在考慮跟審議當中，你要儘快啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：要儘快，你有沒有相關指標，預計在什麼時候可以成形？"],["卓院長榮泰：我已經指示內政部，請內政部儘快提出一個方案。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：內政部有時間點嗎？可以告訴我們民眾嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：當然可以儘快……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們不能讓這個空窗期這麼長啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：不會，我知道大家都非常殷切期盼，所以我會請內政部儘速完成，最快的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：儘速完成，所以現在還沒有辦法把時間告訴我們？"],["卓院長榮泰：法制化必須要有一個過程。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然，這個過程可以同步進行的，儘快告訴我們，儘快讓民眾可以安心，我們拭目以待。"],["卓院長榮泰：我希望它在今年這個年度裡面能夠有所進展。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：是，同時我要給院長說明的是，制定打詐四法的時候，包括了科技偵查，當時我們不分藍、綠、白，一起好好的幫助這個國家，能夠讓人民安心，甚至在整個科技偵查裡頭，大家努力的協商，終於也放在刑事訴訟法的專章裡頭，甚至本席所提案的洗錢防制法第十五條之一、第十五條之二，也就是對於這些沒有理由在收集的這些帳號，你就要出動了，我們用法讓執行者有所依歸，能夠有成效，這個是大家努力的，希望這個能夠成軍，讓民眾可以安心，可以打擊這些詐騙，這是大家一起努力的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，委員有沒有覺得大院和我們這樣一起努力通過這個打詐四法之後，這個狀況稍微有一點穩住，沒有這樣急遽的變壞，我們希望能夠把它往下降。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你講這個就是你真的要加油，因為打詐四法制定之前跟之後，我告訴你，我們被詐的數字、金額是增加的，所以你好好的去檢討這一塊。","接下來本席要告訴你，也就是這個假釋的詐欺犯，他詐騙了300萬，還能夠被假釋出來，他還揶揄你政府只課扣了7,200元，還說要賺錢的找他，這可以嗎？請教，這可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：這剛剛說……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：已經移送雲林地檢署了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這可以嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：在八月十幾號已經移送，這個案子已經移送雲林地檢署，當然這個行為絕對不可取，而且我們要杜絕，就是要對這個案子速查速辦，他已經移送了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！院長，你這樣就對了！速查速辦，不可以這樣子囂張啊！對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：他已經移送了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，你這樣就對了，速查速辦，不可以這樣囂張，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：是啊！他已經移送了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還可以如此的囂張，揶揄我們政府……"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對不行！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：挑釁我們民眾，這是不行的，臺灣是一個溫暖的國家，是一個安定的國家，不容許如此，所以速審速辦，是不是？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來，針對假冒公務人員一事，我們也要不斷宣導，就像剛剛本席說的，50到69歲的人，他對於打詐是最不安心、感受最深的，詐騙集團現在已經是高度組織化，所以他鎖定什麼？鎖定高年齡層，請問政府對於我們這些高年齡層的長者，有什麼方案？例如本席提出的，電信異常偵測，還有家屬通知，這些都必須在第一時間做到，至少還可以防堵。院長，對於高年齡層受害，你認為我們有什麼精進方案？"],["卓院長榮泰：對於青年、退休族群，以及一些特定族群，我們都把他當作一個最容易受到詐騙的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：高齡，本席跟你討論的是高齡的部分。"],["卓院長榮泰：就是退休的族群，我們把他當作是最容易受到詐騙集團引誘的一些對象，所以我們用科技的方式來分析，把這些族群找出來之後，現在至少已經用一些簡訊通知、告訴他們一些詐騙的行為，讓他們知道這些是陷阱，不要輕易進入，同時也對這些行為的潛在被害人，透過AI方式、科技方式把他們找出來，施予他們更多識詐的、教育的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：都有這麼多方式，但是你的成效是不彰的，這表示我們的方法還有精進的空間……"],["卓院長榮泰：絕對是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：絕對是，所以本席具體建議，請你在下個會期提出具體防詐騙的政策目標，明確說明跨部會行動分工，讓民眾對於檢、警、調及我們的政府是有信任的，而且本席還要求對於我們長者的宣導必須要擴大，你能夠做得到嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，我們會提出一套完整的方式，我請內政部來主辦，法務部來協辦。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員質詢，也謝謝卓院長備詢。","報告院會，非常感謝黃健豪委員、劉書彬委員以及林月琴委員在下午的專案報告會議一直陪同我們參與。","現在休息10分鐘。","休息（16時7分）","繼續開會（16時18分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":212,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","傅崐萁","黃珊珊","陳培瑜","羅智強","劉書彬","王義川","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","張智倫","郭昱晴","王鴻薇","蔡易餘","賴士葆","李坤城","楊瓊瓔","林月琴","黃健豪","陳亭妃","葛如鈞","林楚茵","陳冠廷"],"page_start":115,"meetingDate":["2025-08-15"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00002","1147101_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「新世代打擊詐欺策略行動綱領2.0執行成效」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00004"}}}