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{\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 971.338, \"end\": 971.718, \"score\": 0.842}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 971.718, \"end\": 971.978, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 971.978, \"end\": 971.998, \"score\": 0.216}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 982.785, \"end\": 982.966, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 982.966, \"end\": 983.126, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"谢\", \"start\": 983.126, \"end\": 983.146, \"score\": 0.951}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,736 --> 00:00:33,147\n謝謝主席有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔡委員好卓院長好我今天聲音有點傻眼敬請包容但是我今天還是要跟您討論因為行政院這個\n\n2\n00:00:35,095 --> 00:00:51,630\n違法大砍或苛扣一般性的地方補助款這件事情造成地方政府在面對關稅衝擊的時候其實有很大的影響稍後我會跟院長分析跟說明為什麼地方補助款\n\n3\n00:00:52,490 --> 00:01:05,209\n跟面對應對關稅的衝擊是有相關的所以我今天的質詢內容會稍微提到關稅的部分那還麻煩院長您能夠認真看待誠懇的回答好嗎\n\n4\n00:01:07,882 --> 00:01:25,897\n因為行政院假借立法院刪減預算之名對一般性補助款行大砍之實苛扣之實我一直在研究到底砍了哪些項目我也在推敲思考行政院到底是\n\n5\n00:01:26,718 --> 00:01:40,958\n什麼樣的心態那我去分析之後我的解釋是說行政院終究是為了一個選票為了大罷免大成功可以說是非常的高明那為什麼我會這樣說我麻煩院長看一下這張圖表\n\n6\n00:01:43,004 --> 00:02:02,132\n這是來自主計總處的資料關於近三年來行政院撥補地方補助款的情形其中教育補助最左邊那一欄是用來支應學校教育人事費教育設施補助費退休給付等然後另外一項第四欄\n\n7\n00:02:03,132 --> 00:02:30,939\n其他基本的支出補助是補助各地方政府的公務員警察還有消防人員的人事費辦公費及退休金等那這兩個項目這兩個項目其實砍得非常少那相對去持平的我的解讀是就不去得罪公教人員就不去得罪這個學生家長所以幾乎都沒有去動他但是相較之下院長\n\n8\n00:02:32,119 --> 00:02:56,944\n人民最有感也最能大做文章的社會福利補助砍了不少還有基本設施的補助也砍了不少但是砍得最多的那一項明顯大幅減少的是平衡預算補助是在第五欄的地方平衡預算補助2024年這筆數字是520億\n\n9\n00:03:01,496 --> 00:03:18,724\n但是今年砍了一大半以上剩下249億這個數字砍了這麼多是匪夷所思當然我也可以說是居心叵測我想要請問院長您知不知道透過地方補助\n\n10\n00:03:19,804 --> 00:03:42,910\n再去補助給中小企業的各種獎勵包括創業補助包括研發補助包括獎勵等等是放在哪個項目足記總長麻煩您直播我想請教院長院長您知道這個部分透過地方政府去補助這個中小企業的一個獎勵研發創業是放在哪個項目嗎\n\n11\n00:03:47,379 --> 00:04:02,422\n中央對地方的補助其中有一項在一般性補助裡面叫做爭域裁員爭域裁員就是地方政府如果他裁員有不足的時候我們用平衡的精神來爭域他的裁員我剛剛在報告當中說明過\n\n12\n00:04:03,556 --> 00:04:15,051\n過去這幾年中央與地方通力的合作中央大力協助地方政府的財政結構已經有所改善從愚促轉為盈餘有這個剩餘的時候你提到平衡運轉補助可是你們砍得最多的\n\n13\n00:04:20,157 --> 00:04:39,622\n也是這一項你們把透過地方的手要去補助中小企業的部分都砍了所以我為什麼一開始就說地方補助款跟面對關稅的衝擊其實是有影響的你們砍了最多砍了一半以上我們並不是砍這樣的預算是爭域裁員爭域裁員是他本身財政困難\n\n14\n00:04:40,402 --> 00:05:06,373\n有漁錯的時候我們想辦法來補食他他如果沒有了那這個爭域財源就是地方財政自主健康的一個條件4月7號您邀請立院黨團朝野黨團到行政院針對關稅的議題我們有共商國事那對行政院合定的因應美國的關稅提出了880億院長您還記得我提出什麼建議我講了什麼話嗎\n\n15\n00:05:08,649 --> 00:05:22,085\n請委員再提點一下當然院長你日理千機啦您不記得是很正常的我是要告訴院長我這個人從來不講場面話而且我講話也不講多餘的話我是直接講的那天我一發言輪到我發言我就跟院長說880億是不夠的\n\n16\n00:05:25,202 --> 00:05:53,732\n我也提到根據幾位產業專家講的就說這個影響評估至少是三個百分點的GDP一個百分點的GDP是兩千多億行政院根本沒有做好衝擊評估所以我們也沒有資料可以做參考那天你也很客氣的請在野黨要配合特別條例你也提到說有關非關稅壁壘的部分可能要涉及法規的鬆綁所以你也請大家配合\n\n17\n00:05:54,656 --> 00:06:22,607\n我您記得我怎麼回應您嗎我記得那天在草野的氣氛底下是相當針對那個議題對行政院提出的看法是採取支持的我當時有請教您有提醒您就是說那請你是不是約束你的行政官員不要上大罷免的選講台為什麼呢因為你一方面請在野黨來幫助你能夠通過配合這個預算特別的條例等等但一方面又要罷免人家\n\n18\n00:06:23,647 --> 00:06:43,137\n我是這樣子提醒院長但是院長您當天停格了您沒有回答我這句話您沒有回答我因為這兩個不是同樣的公民團體的行動跟國家面對關稅的衝擊稍後我有時間再跟院長討論這個部分院長我想請你先看一段20幾秒的影片\n\n19\n00:06:53,238 --> 00:07:05,087\n聲音請時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停我們再播放一下沒有聲音重新開始播一下\n\n20\n00:07:29,403 --> 00:07:32,387\n再試試看請問為什麼沒有聲音\n\n21\n00:07:47,217 --> 00:08:10,676\n在很多必要守住的關頭他都也沒有守住一直節節敗退我們真的想問總統你在急什麼難道這麼重大的事情臺灣社會不應該參與國會不應該監督嗎所以我也要在這裡呼籲我們的國會一定要強力的監督當政府已經喪失了替人民把關的功能的時候我們就期待國會要扮演這個角色\n\n22\n00:08:13,095 --> 00:08:39,752\n因為您認為當時蔡英文主席在說哪一位總統很急在急什麼呢他說國會要監督監督的對象是誰您記得嗎總統講這段話他的用意當然是希望說國會發揮正常而強力的監督行政院行政院在做任何談判工作的時候要守住國家的立場這是2013年蔡英文主席對馬英九總統那個時候就說這個福馬黑箱的受訪\n\n23\n00:08:42,714 --> 00:08:58,602\n當年我們一起來反對這個福馬黑箱主張台灣社會應該參與主張國會應該要監督結果現在賴政府跟您的團隊都是以說跟美方簽有這個秘密協定唯有相關資訊都引領所以我才放這張影片讓\n\n24\n00:09:00,683 --> 00:09:23,218\n讓您還有民進黨政府能夠回想到底在急什麼為什麼國會不能監督院長美國他先是宣布日本的關稅是15%後來又宣布台灣的關稅是20%那當然賴總統跟談判團隊一直在告訴我們這個是暫時性的稅率但是我想請教院長你認為20%跟15%差距是大還是不大\n\n25\n00:09:28,207 --> 00:09:50,254\n15跟20這兩個數字本來就有差距其實是對產業有重大的影響可是當日本政府知道說這個5%是疊加上去的時候他們立刻跟美方溝通最後美方承認川普總統他簽署這個對等關稅行政命令的時候不精確這個跟這個他們7月22日兩國商談的結果是不一樣的所以後來\n\n26\n00:09:55,476 --> 00:10:23,097\n後來日本消美的商品跟歐洲歐盟一樣不會在既有的關稅上再疊加再疊加這個15%可是反觀台灣呢我們在最基本的最惠國這個關稅稅率上又疊加了20%所以我們是20加4是24%啦這是以工具機為例工具機為例是24%那國人剛開始以為我們跟日本只是差了5%\n\n27\n00:10:24,438 --> 00:10:43,490\n現在差了百分之九那我再來請問院長請問這個百分之五跟百分之九的差距大不大呢就數字來看當然他是數字是不同的那院長請問官方有整理這個我們消滅產品的稅率跟日本的差距嗎有整理這些資料嗎\n\n28\n00:10:44,428 --> 00:11:00,677\n我們跟美國的消美的各項的農工產品我們都有詳細的數字跟其他主要國家的主要產品我們也會做出比較我相信你們是有做比較但是我奇怪的是為什麼7月26號之前不公開呢因為7月23號\n\n29\n00:11:01,718 --> 00:11:22,539\n就知道日本是15%那8月11日行政會開記者會之前我們都看不到官方數字我們只看到民間整理的數字我不相信這個是屬於這個保密這個協議的範圍陳委員一句話那個記者會政府院長記者會裡面寫得很清楚4月我們對外公開就已經講到過這一段我們只是\n\n30\n00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:40,917\n行政院在過去一段時間沒有一直重複我覺得是個別產業所受到的衝擊因為那天8月11號有提了一些我先請教8月11號的行政院記者會有說他們要爭取不要疊加關稅請問又過好多天了有沒有進度呢\n\n31\n00:11:41,977 --> 00:11:58,496\n有沒有進度這件事我是上次的報告有說過歐盟日本他們可以爭取到不疊加是因為他們簽了所謂的協議協議簽了之後他們爭取不疊加像日本也是簽了之後才知道原來他們是疊加\n\n32\n00:12:00,799 --> 00:12:21,396\n台灣跟美國之間還沒有談到協議的內容跟定案簽訂之後照政府院長所講的我們現在第一個爭取降到合理的稅率第二個爭取不疊價謝謝院長那8月11號行政院召開記者會的時候鞏明星秘書長他就是以工具機產業這張圖表的個別產業影響評估說明他說台灣跟主要的競爭國的關稅差距9%\n\n33\n00:12:29,443 --> 00:12:42,271\n所以中高階的工具機可能會被日本及德國取代你看行政院配合民進黨的大罷免搞了一年多現在終於講實話了會被取代\n\n34\n00:12:45,260 --> 00:13:10,792\n為什麼這個資訊在過去幾個月都不能跟國人好好溝通不能跟國會報告這個一直到被質疑說是黑箱的怒火炎上加上726大罷免大失敗之後才要公開呢過去幾個月您不知道日本的關稅多少台灣的關稅多少我也不知道談判代表也不知道我們怎麼跟你講我們跟日本差多少\n\n35\n00:13:12,572 --> 00:13:32,422\n難道你過去就知道日本是15台灣是20嗎也不知道啊沒有人知道啊院長我提醒的重點是說其實國人給你的壓力或國會給你的壓力其實是你們對美談判的籌碼就是說你要把國內的壓力轉化成談判的助力別的國家就是這麼做的啊\n\n36\n00:13:32,862 --> 00:13:54,398\n別的國家就是這麼做啦當然你看到日本韓國都這麼做但是民進黨卻一直擔心大罷免大成功會破功啊那又擔心說如果我先公布了衝擊評估那又影響選情啊所以一直就沒有就是一直保持這個隱瞞啊所以我們的感受是如此啊歐盟日本跟美國談好也是在之後的事情\n\n37\n00:13:54,978 --> 00:14:12,297\n在過去你說的民進黨支持大罷免這個前提是不存在即使在那個時段裡面也沒有人知道談判出來最後的結果是如何我今天也許沒有提那個部分但是我們再回到這張簡報我還發現就是韓國工具機它的最惠國關稅是零喔也是疊加上去也是15%\n\n38\n00:14:13,979 --> 00:14:37,694\n而台灣最惠國關稅是4%再加上去24%所以還是差距很大那你們在簡報上提出來的因應措施很多業者跟我們反映說杯水車型毫無幫助因為他沒有辦法降低成本就沒有辦法跟對手有競爭力這是很現實的問題我想請你看一下這篇聯合報的報導標題是\n\n39\n00:14:40,015 --> 00:15:07,253\n美關稅20%已經是仁慈工具機大佬直指關鍵因素在這裡請問院長您看過這篇報導嗎你有看過這篇報導嗎我約略有看過工具機大佬也就是台灣工具機暨領組建工會的這個名譽理事長許文憲以下都是他說的話美國關稅的真正意圖是要圍堵中國製造要各國去去除紅色供應鏈結果台灣是連\n\n40\n00:15:08,113 --> 00:15:29,594\n工具機的產業都是大量利用中國製造的零組件來降低成本對美國來說台灣就是紅色供應鏈的參與者跟獲利者只要沒有斷掉紅色供應鏈美國對台灣藉由關稅的制度是不會停止的送再多的台積電給美國也沒有用這是他講的話請問您認同嗎\n\n41\n00:15:31,817 --> 00:15:48,207\n台灣就是這樣子我們更應該立即快速的強調我們的整個供應鏈的經濟安全建立起我們的民主供應鏈在過去這段時間累積下來的我們現在就要強烈的來改所以請委員支持我們把今年的預算恢復過來我們可以做更多的事情\n\n42\n00:15:48,447 --> 00:16:11,998\n那我就是說你剛剛的對應的政策有四項但完全沒有提到去除這個紅色供應鏈嘛所以應該趕快補上嘛所以當你這個地方補助款你把刪掉透過地方政府給企業的總統實際上國安策略裡面就有清楚的這一項我沒有辦法一次的講話把所有的你刪除了地方政府對企業界的補助跟獎勵這個怎麼能夠有辦法\n\n43\n00:16:22,785 --> 00:16:23,146\n好谢谢\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8736\t33147\t謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔡委員好卓院長好我今天聲音有點傻眼 敬請包容但是我今天還是要跟您討論因為行政院這個\n35095\t51630\t違法大砍或苛扣一般性的地方補助款這件事情造成地方政府在面對關稅衝擊的時候其實有很大的影響稍後我會跟院長分析跟說明為什麼地方補助款\n52490\t65209\t跟面對應對關稅的衝擊是有相關的所以我今天的質詢內容會稍微提到關稅的部分那還麻煩院長您能夠認真看待誠懇的回答好嗎\n67882\t85897\t因為行政院假借立法院刪減預算之名對一般性補助款行大砍之實 苛扣之實我一直在研究到底砍了哪些項目我也在推敲思考行政院到底是\n86718\t100958\t什麼樣的心態那我去分析之後我的解釋是說行政院終究是為了一個選票為了大罷免大成功可以說是非常的高明那為什麼我會這樣說我麻煩院長看一下這張圖表\n103004\t122132\t這是來自主計總處的資料關於近三年來行政院撥補地方補助款的情形其中教育補助最左邊那一欄是用來支應學校教育人事費教育設施補助費退休給付等然後另外一項第四欄\n123132\t150939\t其他基本的支出補助是補助各地方政府的公務員警察還有消防人員的人事費辦公費及退休金等那這兩個項目這兩個項目其實砍得非常少那相對去持平的我的解讀是就不去得罪公教人員就不去得罪這個學生家長所以幾乎都沒有去動他但是相較之下院長\n152119\t176944\t人民最有感也最能大做文章的社會福利補助砍了不少還有基本設施的補助也砍了不少但是砍得最多的那一項明顯大幅減少的是平衡預算補助是在第五欄的地方平衡預算補助2024年這筆數字是520億\n181496\t198724\t但是今年砍了一大半以上剩下249億這個數字砍了這麼多是匪夷所思當然我也可以說是居心叵測我想要請問院長您知不知道透過地方補助\n199804\t222910\t再去補助給中小企業的各種獎勵包括創業補助包括研發補助包括獎勵等等是放在哪個項目足記總長麻煩您直播我想請教院長院長您知道這個部分透過地方政府去補助這個中小企業的一個獎勵 研發 創業是放在哪個項目嗎\n227379\t242422\t中央對地方的補助其中有一項在一般性補助裡面叫做爭域裁員爭域裁員就是地方政府如果他裁員有不足的時候我們用平衡的精神來爭域他的裁員我剛剛在報告當中說明過\n243556\t255051\t過去這幾年中央與地方通力的合作中央大力協助地方政府的財政結構已經有所改善從愚促轉為盈餘有這個剩餘的時候你提到平衡運轉補助可是你們砍得最多的\n260157\t279622\t也是這一項你們把透過地方的手要去補助中小企業的部分都砍了所以我為什麼一開始就說地方補助款跟面對關稅的衝擊其實是有影響的你們砍了最多砍了一半以上我們並不是砍這樣的預算是爭域裁員爭域裁員是他本身財政困難\n280402\t306373\t有漁錯的時候我們想辦法來補食他他如果沒有了那這個爭域財源就是地方財政自主健康的一個條件4月7號您邀請立院黨團朝野黨團到行政院針對關稅的議題我們有共商國事那對行政院合定的因應美國的關稅提出了880億院長您還記得我提出什麼建議我講了什麼話嗎\n308649\t322085\t請委員再提點一下當然院長你日理千機啦您不記得是很正常的我是要告訴院長我這個人從來不講場面話而且我講話也不講多餘的話我是直接講的那天我一發言輪到我發言我就跟院長說880億是不夠的\n325202\t353732\t我也提到根據幾位產業專家講的就說這個影響評估至少是三個百分點的GDP一個百分點的GDP是兩千多億行政院根本沒有做好衝擊評估所以我們也沒有資料可以做參考那天你也很客氣的請在野黨要配合特別條例你也提到說有關非關稅壁壘的部分可能要涉及法規的鬆綁所以你也請大家配合\n354656\t382607\t我 您記得我怎麼回應您嗎我記得那天在草野的氣氛底下是相當針對那個議題對行政院提出的看法是採取支持的我當時有請教您 有提醒您就是說那請你是不是約束你的行政官員不要上大罷免的選講台 為什麼呢因為你一方面請在野黨來幫助你能夠通過配合這個預算 特別的條例等等但一方面又要罷免人家\n383647\t403137\t我是這樣子提醒院長但是院長您當天停格了您沒有回答我這句話您沒有回答我因為這兩個不是同樣的公民團體的行動跟國家面對關稅的衝擊稍後我有時間再跟院長討論這個部分院長我想請你先看一段20幾秒的影片\n413238\t425087\t聲音請時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停我們再播放一下沒有聲音重新開始播一下\n449403\t452387\t再試試看請問為什麼沒有聲音\n467217\t490676\t在很多必要守住的關頭他都也沒有守住一直節節敗退我們真的想問總統你在急什麼難道這麼重大的事情臺灣社會不應該參與國會不應該監督嗎所以我也要在這裡呼籲我們的國會一定要強力的監督當政府已經喪失了替人民把關的功能的時候我們就期待國會要扮演這個角色\n493095\t519752\t因為您認為當時蔡英文主席在說哪一位總統很急在急什麼呢他說國會要監督監督的對象是誰您記得嗎總統講這段話他的用意當然是希望說國會發揮正常而強力的監督行政院行政院在做任何談判工作的時候要守住國家的立場這是2013年蔡英文主席對馬英九總統那個時候就說這個福馬黑箱的受訪\n522714\t538602\t當年我們一起來反對這個福馬黑箱主張台灣社會應該參與主張國會應該要監督結果現在賴政府跟您的團隊都是以說跟美方簽有這個秘密協定唯有相關資訊都引領所以我才放這張影片讓\n540683\t563218\t讓您還有民進黨政府能夠回想到底在急什麼為什麼國會不能監督院長美國他先是宣布日本的關稅是15%後來又宣布台灣的關稅是20%那當然賴總統跟談判團隊一直在告訴我們這個是暫時性的稅率但是我想請教院長你認為20%跟15%差距是大還是不大\n568207\t590254\t15跟20這兩個數字本來就有差距其實是對產業有重大的影響可是當日本政府知道說這個5%是疊加上去的時候他們立刻跟美方溝通最後美方承認川普總統他簽署這個對等關稅行政命令的時候不精確這個跟這個他們7月22日兩國商談的結果是不一樣的所以後來\n595476\t623097\t後來日本消美的商品跟歐洲歐盟一樣不會在既有的關稅上再疊加再疊加這個15%可是反觀台灣呢我們在最基本的最惠國這個關稅稅率上又疊加了20%所以我們是20加4是24%啦這是以工具機為例工具機為例是24%那國人剛開始以為我們跟日本只是差了5%\n624438\t643490\t現在差了百分之九那我再來請問院長請問這個百分之五跟百分之九的差距大不大呢就數字來看當然他是數字是不同的那院長請問官方有整理這個我們消滅產品的稅率跟日本的差距嗎有整理這些資料嗎\n644428\t660677\t我們跟美國的消美的各項的農工產品我們都有詳細的數字跟其他主要國家的主要產品我們也會做出比較我相信你們是有做比較但是我奇怪的是為什麼7月26號之前不公開呢因為7月23號\n661718\t682539\t就知道日本是15%那8月11日行政會開記者會之前我們都看不到官方數字我們只看到民間整理的數字我不相信這個是屬於這個保密這個協議的範圍陳委員一句話那個記者會政府院長記者會裡面寫得很清楚4月我們對外公開就已經講到過這一段我們只是\n683300\t700917\t行政院在過去一段時間沒有一直重複我覺得是個別產業所受到的衝擊因為那天8月11號有提了一些我先請教8月11號的行政院記者會有說他們要爭取不要疊加關稅請問又過好多天了有沒有進度呢\n701977\t718496\t有沒有進度這件事我是上次的報告有說過歐盟日本他們可以爭取到不疊加是因為他們簽了所謂的協議協議簽了之後他們爭取不疊加像日本也是簽了之後才知道原來他們是疊加\n720799\t741396\t台灣跟美國之間還沒有談到協議的內容跟定案簽訂之後 照政府院長所講的我們現在第一個爭取降到合理的稅率第二個爭取不疊價謝謝院長那8月11號行政院召開記者會的時候鞏明星秘書長他就是以工具機產業這張圖表的個別產業影響評估說明他說台灣跟主要的競爭國的關稅差距9%\n749443\t762271\t所以中高階的工具機可能會被日本及德國取代你看行政院配合民進黨的大罷免搞了一年多現在終於講實話了會被取代\n765260\t790792\t為什麼這個資訊在過去幾個月都不能跟國人好好溝通不能跟國會報告這個一直到被質疑說是黑箱的怒火炎上加上726大罷免大失敗之後才要公開呢過去幾個月您不知道日本的關稅多少台灣的關稅多少我也不知道談判代表也不知道我們怎麼跟你講我們跟日本差多少\n792572\t812422\t難道你過去就知道日本是15 台灣是20嗎也不知道啊 沒有人知道啊院長 我提醒的重點是說其實國人給你的壓力或國會給你的壓力其實是你們對美談判的籌碼就是說你要把國內的壓力轉化成談判的助力別的國家就是這麼做的啊\n812862\t834398\t別的國家就是這麼做啦當然你看到日本 韓國都這麼做但是民進黨卻一直擔心大罷免大成功會破功啊那又擔心說如果我先公布了衝擊評估那又影響選情啊所以一直就沒有就是一直保持這個隱瞞啊所以我們的感受是如此啊歐盟日本跟美國談好也是在之後的事情\n834978\t852297\t在過去你說的民進黨支持大罷免這個前提是不存在即使在那個時段裡面也沒有人知道談判出來最後的結果是如何我今天也許沒有提那個部分但是我們再回到這張簡報我還發現就是韓國工具機它的最惠國關稅是零喔也是疊加上去也是15%\n853979\t877694\t而台灣最惠國關稅是4%再加上去24%所以還是差距很大那你們在簡報上提出來的因應措施很多業者跟我們反映說杯水車型毫無幫助因為他沒有辦法降低成本就沒有辦法跟對手有競爭力這是很現實的問題我想請你看一下這篇聯合報的報導標題是\n880015\t907253\t美關稅20%已經是仁慈工具機大佬直指關鍵因素在這裡 請問院長您看過這篇報導嗎你有看過這篇報導嗎我約略有看過工具機大佬也就是台灣工具機暨領組建工會的這個名譽理事長許文憲以下都是他說的話美國關稅的真正意圖是要圍堵中國製造要各國去去除紅色供應鏈結果台灣是連\n908113\t929594\t工具機的產業都是大量利用中國製造的零組件來降低成本對美國來說台灣就是紅色供應鏈的參與者跟獲利者只要沒有斷掉紅色供應鏈美國對台灣藉由關稅的制度是不會停止的送再多的台積電給美國也沒有用這是他講的話 請問您認同嗎\n931817\t948207\t台灣就是這樣子我們更應該立即快速的強調我們的整個供應鏈的經濟安全建立起我們的民主供應鏈在過去這段時間累積下來的我們現在就要強烈的來改所以請委員支持我們把今年的預算恢復過來我們可以做更多的事情\n948447\t971998\t那我就是說你剛剛的對應的政策有四項但完全沒有提到去除這個紅色供應鏈嘛所以應該趕快補上嘛所以當你這個地方補助款你把刪掉透過地方政府給企業的總統實際上國安策略裡面就有清楚的這一項我沒有辦法一次的講話把所有的你刪除了地方政府對企業界的補助跟獎勵這個怎麼能夠有辦法\n982785\t983146\t好 谢谢\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔡委員好卓院長好我今天聲音有點傻眼 敬請包容但是我今天還是要跟您討論因為行政院這個\n違法大砍或苛扣一般性的地方補助款這件事情造成地方政府在面對關稅衝擊的時候其實有很大的影響稍後我會跟院長分析跟說明為什麼地方補助款\n跟面對應對關稅的衝擊是有相關的所以我今天的質詢內容會稍微提到關稅的部分那還麻煩院長您能夠認真看待誠懇的回答好嗎\n因為行政院假借立法院刪減預算之名對一般性補助款行大砍之實 苛扣之實我一直在研究到底砍了哪些項目我也在推敲思考行政院到底是\n什麼樣的心態那我去分析之後我的解釋是說行政院終究是為了一個選票為了大罷免大成功可以說是非常的高明那為什麼我會這樣說我麻煩院長看一下這張圖表\n這是來自主計總處的資料關於近三年來行政院撥補地方補助款的情形其中教育補助最左邊那一欄是用來支應學校教育人事費教育設施補助費退休給付等然後另外一項第四欄\n其他基本的支出補助是補助各地方政府的公務員警察還有消防人員的人事費辦公費及退休金等那這兩個項目這兩個項目其實砍得非常少那相對去持平的我的解讀是就不去得罪公教人員就不去得罪這個學生家長所以幾乎都沒有去動他但是相較之下院長\n人民最有感也最能大做文章的社會福利補助砍了不少還有基本設施的補助也砍了不少但是砍得最多的那一項明顯大幅減少的是平衡預算補助是在第五欄的地方平衡預算補助2024年這筆數字是520億\n但是今年砍了一大半以上剩下249億這個數字砍了這麼多是匪夷所思當然我也可以說是居心叵測我想要請問院長您知不知道透過地方補助\n再去補助給中小企業的各種獎勵包括創業補助包括研發補助包括獎勵等等是放在哪個項目足記總長麻煩您直播我想請教院長院長您知道這個部分透過地方政府去補助這個中小企業的一個獎勵 研發 創業是放在哪個項目嗎\n中央對地方的補助其中有一項在一般性補助裡面叫做爭域裁員爭域裁員就是地方政府如果他裁員有不足的時候我們用平衡的精神來爭域他的裁員我剛剛在報告當中說明過\n過去這幾年中央與地方通力的合作中央大力協助地方政府的財政結構已經有所改善從愚促轉為盈餘有這個剩餘的時候你提到平衡運轉補助可是你們砍得最多的\n也是這一項你們把透過地方的手要去補助中小企業的部分都砍了所以我為什麼一開始就說地方補助款跟面對關稅的衝擊其實是有影響的你們砍了最多砍了一半以上我們並不是砍這樣的預算是爭域裁員爭域裁員是他本身財政困難\n有漁錯的時候我們想辦法來補食他他如果沒有了那這個爭域財源就是地方財政自主健康的一個條件4月7號您邀請立院黨團朝野黨團到行政院針對關稅的議題我們有共商國事那對行政院合定的因應美國的關稅提出了880億院長您還記得我提出什麼建議我講了什麼話嗎\n請委員再提點一下當然院長你日理千機啦您不記得是很正常的我是要告訴院長我這個人從來不講場面話而且我講話也不講多餘的話我是直接講的那天我一發言輪到我發言我就跟院長說880億是不夠的\n我也提到根據幾位產業專家講的就說這個影響評估至少是三個百分點的GDP一個百分點的GDP是兩千多億行政院根本沒有做好衝擊評估所以我們也沒有資料可以做參考那天你也很客氣的請在野黨要配合特別條例你也提到說有關非關稅壁壘的部分可能要涉及法規的鬆綁所以你也請大家配合\n我 您記得我怎麼回應您嗎我記得那天在草野的氣氛底下是相當針對那個議題對行政院提出的看法是採取支持的我當時有請教您 有提醒您就是說那請你是不是約束你的行政官員不要上大罷免的選講台 為什麼呢因為你一方面請在野黨來幫助你能夠通過配合這個預算 特別的條例等等但一方面又要罷免人家\n我是這樣子提醒院長但是院長您當天停格了您沒有回答我這句話您沒有回答我因為這兩個不是同樣的公民團體的行動跟國家面對關稅的衝擊稍後我有時間再跟院長討論這個部分院長我想請你先看一段20幾秒的影片\n聲音請時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停我們再播放一下沒有聲音重新開始播一下\n再試試看請問為什麼沒有聲音\n在很多必要守住的關頭他都也沒有守住一直節節敗退我們真的想問總統你在急什麼難道這麼重大的事情臺灣社會不應該參與國會不應該監督嗎所以我也要在這裡呼籲我們的國會一定要強力的監督當政府已經喪失了替人民把關的功能的時候我們就期待國會要扮演這個角色\n因為您認為當時蔡英文主席在說哪一位總統很急在急什麼呢他說國會要監督監督的對象是誰您記得嗎總統講這段話他的用意當然是希望說國會發揮正常而強力的監督行政院行政院在做任何談判工作的時候要守住國家的立場這是2013年蔡英文主席對馬英九總統那個時候就說這個福馬黑箱的受訪\n當年我們一起來反對這個福馬黑箱主張台灣社會應該參與主張國會應該要監督結果現在賴政府跟您的團隊都是以說跟美方簽有這個秘密協定唯有相關資訊都引領所以我才放這張影片讓\n讓您還有民進黨政府能夠回想到底在急什麼為什麼國會不能監督院長美國他先是宣布日本的關稅是15%後來又宣布台灣的關稅是20%那當然賴總統跟談判團隊一直在告訴我們這個是暫時性的稅率但是我想請教院長你認為20%跟15%差距是大還是不大\n15跟20這兩個數字本來就有差距其實是對產業有重大的影響可是當日本政府知道說這個5%是疊加上去的時候他們立刻跟美方溝通最後美方承認川普總統他簽署這個對等關稅行政命令的時候不精確這個跟這個他們7月22日兩國商談的結果是不一樣的所以後來\n後來日本消美的商品跟歐洲歐盟一樣不會在既有的關稅上再疊加再疊加這個15%可是反觀台灣呢我們在最基本的最惠國這個關稅稅率上又疊加了20%所以我們是20加4是24%啦這是以工具機為例工具機為例是24%那國人剛開始以為我們跟日本只是差了5%\n現在差了百分之九那我再來請問院長請問這個百分之五跟百分之九的差距大不大呢就數字來看當然他是數字是不同的那院長請問官方有整理這個我們消滅產品的稅率跟日本的差距嗎有整理這些資料嗎\n我們跟美國的消美的各項的農工產品我們都有詳細的數字跟其他主要國家的主要產品我們也會做出比較我相信你們是有做比較但是我奇怪的是為什麼7月26號之前不公開呢因為7月23號\n就知道日本是15%那8月11日行政會開記者會之前我們都看不到官方數字我們只看到民間整理的數字我不相信這個是屬於這個保密這個協議的範圍陳委員一句話那個記者會政府院長記者會裡面寫得很清楚4月我們對外公開就已經講到過這一段我們只是\n行政院在過去一段時間沒有一直重複我覺得是個別產業所受到的衝擊因為那天8月11號有提了一些我先請教8月11號的行政院記者會有說他們要爭取不要疊加關稅請問又過好多天了有沒有進度呢\n有沒有進度這件事我是上次的報告有說過歐盟日本他們可以爭取到不疊加是因為他們簽了所謂的協議協議簽了之後他們爭取不疊加像日本也是簽了之後才知道原來他們是疊加\n台灣跟美國之間還沒有談到協議的內容跟定案簽訂之後 照政府院長所講的我們現在第一個爭取降到合理的稅率第二個爭取不疊價謝謝院長那8月11號行政院召開記者會的時候鞏明星秘書長他就是以工具機產業這張圖表的個別產業影響評估說明他說台灣跟主要的競爭國的關稅差距9%\n所以中高階的工具機可能會被日本及德國取代你看行政院配合民進黨的大罷免搞了一年多現在終於講實話了會被取代\n為什麼這個資訊在過去幾個月都不能跟國人好好溝通不能跟國會報告這個一直到被質疑說是黑箱的怒火炎上加上726大罷免大失敗之後才要公開呢過去幾個月您不知道日本的關稅多少台灣的關稅多少我也不知道談判代表也不知道我們怎麼跟你講我們跟日本差多少\n難道你過去就知道日本是15 台灣是20嗎也不知道啊 沒有人知道啊院長 我提醒的重點是說其實國人給你的壓力或國會給你的壓力其實是你們對美談判的籌碼就是說你要把國內的壓力轉化成談判的助力別的國家就是這麼做的啊\n別的國家就是這麼做啦當然你看到日本 韓國都這麼做但是民進黨卻一直擔心大罷免大成功會破功啊那又擔心說如果我先公布了衝擊評估那又影響選情啊所以一直就沒有就是一直保持這個隱瞞啊所以我們的感受是如此啊歐盟日本跟美國談好也是在之後的事情\n在過去你說的民進黨支持大罷免這個前提是不存在即使在那個時段裡面也沒有人知道談判出來最後的結果是如何我今天也許沒有提那個部分但是我們再回到這張簡報我還發現就是韓國工具機它的最惠國關稅是零喔也是疊加上去也是15%\n而台灣最惠國關稅是4%再加上去24%所以還是差距很大那你們在簡報上提出來的因應措施很多業者跟我們反映說杯水車型毫無幫助因為他沒有辦法降低成本就沒有辦法跟對手有競爭力這是很現實的問題我想請你看一下這篇聯合報的報導標題是\n美關稅20%已經是仁慈工具機大佬直指關鍵因素在這裡 請問院長您看過這篇報導嗎你有看過這篇報導嗎我約略有看過工具機大佬也就是台灣工具機暨領組建工會的這個名譽理事長許文憲以下都是他說的話美國關稅的真正意圖是要圍堵中國製造要各國去去除紅色供應鏈結果台灣是連\n工具機的產業都是大量利用中國製造的零組件來降低成本對美國來說台灣就是紅色供應鏈的參與者跟獲利者只要沒有斷掉紅色供應鏈美國對台灣藉由關稅的制度是不會停止的送再多的台積電給美國也沒有用這是他講的話 請問您認同嗎\n台灣就是這樣子我們更應該立即快速的強調我們的整個供應鏈的經濟安全建立起我們的民主供應鏈在過去這段時間累積下來的我們現在就要強烈的來改所以請委員支持我們把今年的預算恢復過來我們可以做更多的事情\n那我就是說你剛剛的對應的政策有四項但完全沒有提到去除這個紅色供應鏈嘛所以應該趕快補上嘛所以當你這個地方補助款你把刪掉透過地方政府給企業的總統實際上國安策略裡面就有清楚的這一項我沒有辦法一次的講話把所有的你刪除了地方政府對企業界的補助跟獎勵這個怎麼能夠有辦法\n好 谢谢\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.736 --> 00:33.147\n謝謝主席有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔡委員好卓院長好我今天聲音有點傻眼敬請包容但是我今天還是要跟您討論因為行政院這個\n\n00:35.095 --> 00:51.630\n違法大砍或苛扣一般性的地方補助款這件事情造成地方政府在面對關稅衝擊的時候其實有很大的影響稍後我會跟院長分析跟說明為什麼地方補助款\n\n00:52.490 --> 01:05.209\n跟面對應對關稅的衝擊是有相關的所以我今天的質詢內容會稍微提到關稅的部分那還麻煩院長您能夠認真看待誠懇的回答好嗎\n\n01:07.882 --> 01:25.897\n因為行政院假借立法院刪減預算之名對一般性補助款行大砍之實苛扣之實我一直在研究到底砍了哪些項目我也在推敲思考行政院到底是\n\n01:26.718 --> 01:40.958\n什麼樣的心態那我去分析之後我的解釋是說行政院終究是為了一個選票為了大罷免大成功可以說是非常的高明那為什麼我會這樣說我麻煩院長看一下這張圖表\n\n01:43.004 --> 02:02.132\n這是來自主計總處的資料關於近三年來行政院撥補地方補助款的情形其中教育補助最左邊那一欄是用來支應學校教育人事費教育設施補助費退休給付等然後另外一項第四欄\n\n02:03.132 --> 02:30.939\n其他基本的支出補助是補助各地方政府的公務員警察還有消防人員的人事費辦公費及退休金等那這兩個項目這兩個項目其實砍得非常少那相對去持平的我的解讀是就不去得罪公教人員就不去得罪這個學生家長所以幾乎都沒有去動他但是相較之下院長\n\n02:32.119 --> 02:56.944\n人民最有感也最能大做文章的社會福利補助砍了不少還有基本設施的補助也砍了不少但是砍得最多的那一項明顯大幅減少的是平衡預算補助是在第五欄的地方平衡預算補助2024年這筆數字是520億\n\n03:01.496 --> 03:18.724\n但是今年砍了一大半以上剩下249億這個數字砍了這麼多是匪夷所思當然我也可以說是居心叵測我想要請問院長您知不知道透過地方補助\n\n03:19.804 --> 03:42.910\n再去補助給中小企業的各種獎勵包括創業補助包括研發補助包括獎勵等等是放在哪個項目足記總長麻煩您直播我想請教院長院長您知道這個部分透過地方政府去補助這個中小企業的一個獎勵研發創業是放在哪個項目嗎\n\n03:47.379 --> 04:02.422\n中央對地方的補助其中有一項在一般性補助裡面叫做爭域裁員爭域裁員就是地方政府如果他裁員有不足的時候我們用平衡的精神來爭域他的裁員我剛剛在報告當中說明過\n\n04:03.556 --> 04:15.051\n過去這幾年中央與地方通力的合作中央大力協助地方政府的財政結構已經有所改善從愚促轉為盈餘有這個剩餘的時候你提到平衡運轉補助可是你們砍得最多的\n\n04:20.157 --> 04:39.622\n也是這一項你們把透過地方的手要去補助中小企業的部分都砍了所以我為什麼一開始就說地方補助款跟面對關稅的衝擊其實是有影響的你們砍了最多砍了一半以上我們並不是砍這樣的預算是爭域裁員爭域裁員是他本身財政困難\n\n04:40.402 --> 05:06.373\n有漁錯的時候我們想辦法來補食他他如果沒有了那這個爭域財源就是地方財政自主健康的一個條件4月7號您邀請立院黨團朝野黨團到行政院針對關稅的議題我們有共商國事那對行政院合定的因應美國的關稅提出了880億院長您還記得我提出什麼建議我講了什麼話嗎\n\n05:08.649 --> 05:22.085\n請委員再提點一下當然院長你日理千機啦您不記得是很正常的我是要告訴院長我這個人從來不講場面話而且我講話也不講多餘的話我是直接講的那天我一發言輪到我發言我就跟院長說880億是不夠的\n\n05:25.202 --> 05:53.732\n我也提到根據幾位產業專家講的就說這個影響評估至少是三個百分點的GDP一個百分點的GDP是兩千多億行政院根本沒有做好衝擊評估所以我們也沒有資料可以做參考那天你也很客氣的請在野黨要配合特別條例你也提到說有關非關稅壁壘的部分可能要涉及法規的鬆綁所以你也請大家配合\n\n05:54.656 --> 06:22.607\n我您記得我怎麼回應您嗎我記得那天在草野的氣氛底下是相當針對那個議題對行政院提出的看法是採取支持的我當時有請教您有提醒您就是說那請你是不是約束你的行政官員不要上大罷免的選講台為什麼呢因為你一方面請在野黨來幫助你能夠通過配合這個預算特別的條例等等但一方面又要罷免人家\n\n06:23.647 --> 06:43.137\n我是這樣子提醒院長但是院長您當天停格了您沒有回答我這句話您沒有回答我因為這兩個不是同樣的公民團體的行動跟國家面對關稅的衝擊稍後我有時間再跟院長討論這個部分院長我想請你先看一段20幾秒的影片\n\n06:53.238 --> 07:05.087\n聲音請時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停我們再播放一下沒有聲音重新開始播一下\n\n07:29.403 --> 07:32.387\n再試試看請問為什麼沒有聲音\n\n07:47.217 --> 08:10.676\n在很多必要守住的關頭他都也沒有守住一直節節敗退我們真的想問總統你在急什麼難道這麼重大的事情臺灣社會不應該參與國會不應該監督嗎所以我也要在這裡呼籲我們的國會一定要強力的監督當政府已經喪失了替人民把關的功能的時候我們就期待國會要扮演這個角色\n\n08:13.095 --> 08:39.752\n因為您認為當時蔡英文主席在說哪一位總統很急在急什麼呢他說國會要監督監督的對象是誰您記得嗎總統講這段話他的用意當然是希望說國會發揮正常而強力的監督行政院行政院在做任何談判工作的時候要守住國家的立場這是2013年蔡英文主席對馬英九總統那個時候就說這個福馬黑箱的受訪\n\n08:42.714 --> 08:58.602\n當年我們一起來反對這個福馬黑箱主張台灣社會應該參與主張國會應該要監督結果現在賴政府跟您的團隊都是以說跟美方簽有這個秘密協定唯有相關資訊都引領所以我才放這張影片讓\n\n09:00.683 --> 09:23.218\n讓您還有民進黨政府能夠回想到底在急什麼為什麼國會不能監督院長美國他先是宣布日本的關稅是15%後來又宣布台灣的關稅是20%那當然賴總統跟談判團隊一直在告訴我們這個是暫時性的稅率但是我想請教院長你認為20%跟15%差距是大還是不大\n\n09:28.207 --> 09:50.254\n15跟20這兩個數字本來就有差距其實是對產業有重大的影響可是當日本政府知道說這個5%是疊加上去的時候他們立刻跟美方溝通最後美方承認川普總統他簽署這個對等關稅行政命令的時候不精確這個跟這個他們7月22日兩國商談的結果是不一樣的所以後來\n\n09:55.476 --> 10:23.097\n後來日本消美的商品跟歐洲歐盟一樣不會在既有的關稅上再疊加再疊加這個15%可是反觀台灣呢我們在最基本的最惠國這個關稅稅率上又疊加了20%所以我們是20加4是24%啦這是以工具機為例工具機為例是24%那國人剛開始以為我們跟日本只是差了5%\n\n10:24.438 --> 10:43.490\n現在差了百分之九那我再來請問院長請問這個百分之五跟百分之九的差距大不大呢就數字來看當然他是數字是不同的那院長請問官方有整理這個我們消滅產品的稅率跟日本的差距嗎有整理這些資料嗎\n\n10:44.428 --> 11:00.677\n我們跟美國的消美的各項的農工產品我們都有詳細的數字跟其他主要國家的主要產品我們也會做出比較我相信你們是有做比較但是我奇怪的是為什麼7月26號之前不公開呢因為7月23號\n\n11:01.718 --> 11:22.539\n就知道日本是15%那8月11日行政會開記者會之前我們都看不到官方數字我們只看到民間整理的數字我不相信這個是屬於這個保密這個協議的範圍陳委員一句話那個記者會政府院長記者會裡面寫得很清楚4月我們對外公開就已經講到過這一段我們只是\n\n11:23.300 --> 11:40.917\n行政院在過去一段時間沒有一直重複我覺得是個別產業所受到的衝擊因為那天8月11號有提了一些我先請教8月11號的行政院記者會有說他們要爭取不要疊加關稅請問又過好多天了有沒有進度呢\n\n11:41.977 --> 11:58.496\n有沒有進度這件事我是上次的報告有說過歐盟日本他們可以爭取到不疊加是因為他們簽了所謂的協議協議簽了之後他們爭取不疊加像日本也是簽了之後才知道原來他們是疊加\n\n12:00.799 --> 12:21.396\n台灣跟美國之間還沒有談到協議的內容跟定案簽訂之後照政府院長所講的我們現在第一個爭取降到合理的稅率第二個爭取不疊價謝謝院長那8月11號行政院召開記者會的時候鞏明星秘書長他就是以工具機產業這張圖表的個別產業影響評估說明他說台灣跟主要的競爭國的關稅差距9%\n\n12:29.443 --> 12:42.271\n所以中高階的工具機可能會被日本及德國取代你看行政院配合民進黨的大罷免搞了一年多現在終於講實話了會被取代\n\n12:45.260 --> 13:10.792\n為什麼這個資訊在過去幾個月都不能跟國人好好溝通不能跟國會報告這個一直到被質疑說是黑箱的怒火炎上加上726大罷免大失敗之後才要公開呢過去幾個月您不知道日本的關稅多少台灣的關稅多少我也不知道談判代表也不知道我們怎麼跟你講我們跟日本差多少\n\n13:12.572 --> 13:32.422\n難道你過去就知道日本是15台灣是20嗎也不知道啊沒有人知道啊院長我提醒的重點是說其實國人給你的壓力或國會給你的壓力其實是你們對美談判的籌碼就是說你要把國內的壓力轉化成談判的助力別的國家就是這麼做的啊\n\n13:32.862 --> 13:54.398\n別的國家就是這麼做啦當然你看到日本韓國都這麼做但是民進黨卻一直擔心大罷免大成功會破功啊那又擔心說如果我先公布了衝擊評估那又影響選情啊所以一直就沒有就是一直保持這個隱瞞啊所以我們的感受是如此啊歐盟日本跟美國談好也是在之後的事情\n\n13:54.978 --> 14:12.297\n在過去你說的民進黨支持大罷免這個前提是不存在即使在那個時段裡面也沒有人知道談判出來最後的結果是如何我今天也許沒有提那個部分但是我們再回到這張簡報我還發現就是韓國工具機它的最惠國關稅是零喔也是疊加上去也是15%\n\n14:13.979 --> 14:37.694\n而台灣最惠國關稅是4%再加上去24%所以還是差距很大那你們在簡報上提出來的因應措施很多業者跟我們反映說杯水車型毫無幫助因為他沒有辦法降低成本就沒有辦法跟對手有競爭力這是很現實的問題我想請你看一下這篇聯合報的報導標題是\n\n14:40.015 --> 15:07.253\n美關稅20%已經是仁慈工具機大佬直指關鍵因素在這裡請問院長您看過這篇報導嗎你有看過這篇報導嗎我約略有看過工具機大佬也就是台灣工具機暨領組建工會的這個名譽理事長許文憲以下都是他說的話美國關稅的真正意圖是要圍堵中國製造要各國去去除紅色供應鏈結果台灣是連\n\n15:08.113 --> 15:29.594\n工具機的產業都是大量利用中國製造的零組件來降低成本對美國來說台灣就是紅色供應鏈的參與者跟獲利者只要沒有斷掉紅色供應鏈美國對台灣藉由關稅的制度是不會停止的送再多的台積電給美國也沒有用這是他講的話請問您認同嗎\n\n15:31.817 --> 15:48.207\n台灣就是這樣子我們更應該立即快速的強調我們的整個供應鏈的經濟安全建立起我們的民主供應鏈在過去這段時間累積下來的我們現在就要強烈的來改所以請委員支持我們把今年的預算恢復過來我們可以做更多的事情\n\n15:48.447 --> 16:11.998\n那我就是說你剛剛的對應的政策有四項但完全沒有提到去除這個紅色供應鏈嘛所以應該趕快補上嘛所以當你這個地方補助款你把刪掉透過地方政府給企業的總統實際上國安策略裡面就有清楚的這一項我沒有辦法一次的講話把所有的你刪除了地方政府對企業界的補助跟獎勵這個怎麼能夠有辦法\n\n16:22.785 --> 16:23.146\n好谢谢\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.736,"end":33.147,"text":"謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢蔡委員好卓院長好我今天聲音有點傻眼 敬請包容但是我今天還是要跟您討論因為行政院這個"},{"start":35.095,"end":51.63,"text":"違法大砍或苛扣一般性的地方補助款這件事情造成地方政府在面對關稅衝擊的時候其實有很大的影響稍後我會跟院長分析跟說明為什麼地方補助款"},{"start":52.49,"end":65.209,"text":"跟面對應對關稅的衝擊是有相關的所以我今天的質詢內容會稍微提到關稅的部分那還麻煩院長您能夠認真看待誠懇的回答好嗎"},{"start":67.882,"end":85.897,"text":"因為行政院假借立法院刪減預算之名對一般性補助款行大砍之實 苛扣之實我一直在研究到底砍了哪些項目我也在推敲思考行政院到底是"},{"start":86.718,"end":100.958,"text":"什麼樣的心態那我去分析之後我的解釋是說行政院終究是為了一個選票為了大罷免大成功可以說是非常的高明那為什麼我會這樣說我麻煩院長看一下這張圖表"},{"start":103.004,"end":122.132,"text":"這是來自主計總處的資料關於近三年來行政院撥補地方補助款的情形其中教育補助最左邊那一欄是用來支應學校教育人事費教育設施補助費退休給付等然後另外一項第四欄"},{"start":123.132,"end":150.939,"text":"其他基本的支出補助是補助各地方政府的公務員警察還有消防人員的人事費辦公費及退休金等那這兩個項目這兩個項目其實砍得非常少那相對去持平的我的解讀是就不去得罪公教人員就不去得罪這個學生家長所以幾乎都沒有去動他但是相較之下院長"},{"start":152.119,"end":176.944,"text":"人民最有感也最能大做文章的社會福利補助砍了不少還有基本設施的補助也砍了不少但是砍得最多的那一項明顯大幅減少的是平衡預算補助是在第五欄的地方平衡預算補助2024年這筆數字是520億"},{"start":181.496,"end":198.724,"text":"但是今年砍了一大半以上剩下249億這個數字砍了這麼多是匪夷所思當然我也可以說是居心叵測我想要請問院長您知不知道透過地方補助"},{"start":199.804,"end":222.91,"text":"再去補助給中小企業的各種獎勵包括創業補助包括研發補助包括獎勵等等是放在哪個項目足記總長麻煩您直播我想請教院長院長您知道這個部分透過地方政府去補助這個中小企業的一個獎勵 研發 創業是放在哪個項目嗎"},{"start":227.379,"end":242.422,"text":"中央對地方的補助其中有一項在一般性補助裡面叫做爭域裁員爭域裁員就是地方政府如果他裁員有不足的時候我們用平衡的精神來爭域他的裁員我剛剛在報告當中說明過"},{"start":243.556,"end":255.051,"text":"過去這幾年中央與地方通力的合作中央大力協助地方政府的財政結構已經有所改善從愚促轉為盈餘有這個剩餘的時候你提到平衡運轉補助可是你們砍得最多的"},{"start":260.157,"end":279.622,"text":"也是這一項你們把透過地方的手要去補助中小企業的部分都砍了所以我為什麼一開始就說地方補助款跟面對關稅的衝擊其實是有影響的你們砍了最多砍了一半以上我們並不是砍這樣的預算是爭域裁員爭域裁員是他本身財政困難"},{"start":280.402,"end":306.373,"text":"有漁錯的時候我們想辦法來補食他他如果沒有了那這個爭域財源就是地方財政自主健康的一個條件4月7號您邀請立院黨團朝野黨團到行政院針對關稅的議題我們有共商國事那對行政院合定的因應美國的關稅提出了880億院長您還記得我提出什麼建議我講了什麼話嗎"},{"start":308.649,"end":322.085,"text":"請委員再提點一下當然院長你日理千機啦您不記得是很正常的我是要告訴院長我這個人從來不講場面話而且我講話也不講多餘的話我是直接講的那天我一發言輪到我發言我就跟院長說880億是不夠的"},{"start":325.202,"end":353.732,"text":"我也提到根據幾位產業專家講的就說這個影響評估至少是三個百分點的GDP一個百分點的GDP是兩千多億行政院根本沒有做好衝擊評估所以我們也沒有資料可以做參考那天你也很客氣的請在野黨要配合特別條例你也提到說有關非關稅壁壘的部分可能要涉及法規的鬆綁所以你也請大家配合"},{"start":354.656,"end":382.607,"text":"我 您記得我怎麼回應您嗎我記得那天在草野的氣氛底下是相當針對那個議題對行政院提出的看法是採取支持的我當時有請教您 有提醒您就是說那請你是不是約束你的行政官員不要上大罷免的選講台 為什麼呢因為你一方面請在野黨來幫助你能夠通過配合這個預算 特別的條例等等但一方面又要罷免人家"},{"start":383.647,"end":403.137,"text":"我是這樣子提醒院長但是院長您當天停格了您沒有回答我這句話您沒有回答我因為這兩個不是同樣的公民團體的行動跟國家面對關稅的衝擊稍後我有時間再跟院長討論這個部分院長我想請你先看一段20幾秒的影片"},{"start":413.238,"end":425.087,"text":"聲音請時間暫停請時間暫停時間暫停我們再播放一下沒有聲音重新開始播一下"},{"start":449.403,"end":452.387,"text":"再試試看請問為什麼沒有聲音"},{"start":467.217,"end":490.676,"text":"在很多必要守住的關頭他都也沒有守住一直節節敗退我們真的想問總統你在急什麼難道這麼重大的事情臺灣社會不應該參與國會不應該監督嗎所以我也要在這裡呼籲我們的國會一定要強力的監督當政府已經喪失了替人民把關的功能的時候我們就期待國會要扮演這個角色"},{"start":493.095,"end":519.752,"text":"因為您認為當時蔡英文主席在說哪一位總統很急在急什麼呢他說國會要監督監督的對象是誰您記得嗎總統講這段話他的用意當然是希望說國會發揮正常而強力的監督行政院行政院在做任何談判工作的時候要守住國家的立場這是2013年蔡英文主席對馬英九總統那個時候就說這個福馬黑箱的受訪"},{"start":522.714,"end":538.602,"text":"當年我們一起來反對這個福馬黑箱主張台灣社會應該參與主張國會應該要監督結果現在賴政府跟您的團隊都是以說跟美方簽有這個秘密協定唯有相關資訊都引領所以我才放這張影片讓"},{"start":540.683,"end":563.218,"text":"讓您還有民進黨政府能夠回想到底在急什麼為什麼國會不能監督院長美國他先是宣布日本的關稅是15%後來又宣布台灣的關稅是20%那當然賴總統跟談判團隊一直在告訴我們這個是暫時性的稅率但是我想請教院長你認為20%跟15%差距是大還是不大"},{"start":568.207,"end":590.254,"text":"15跟20這兩個數字本來就有差距其實是對產業有重大的影響可是當日本政府知道說這個5%是疊加上去的時候他們立刻跟美方溝通最後美方承認川普總統他簽署這個對等關稅行政命令的時候不精確這個跟這個他們7月22日兩國商談的結果是不一樣的所以後來"},{"start":595.476,"end":623.097,"text":"後來日本消美的商品跟歐洲歐盟一樣不會在既有的關稅上再疊加再疊加這個15%可是反觀台灣呢我們在最基本的最惠國這個關稅稅率上又疊加了20%所以我們是20加4是24%啦這是以工具機為例工具機為例是24%那國人剛開始以為我們跟日本只是差了5%"},{"start":624.438,"end":643.49,"text":"現在差了百分之九那我再來請問院長請問這個百分之五跟百分之九的差距大不大呢就數字來看當然他是數字是不同的那院長請問官方有整理這個我們消滅產品的稅率跟日本的差距嗎有整理這些資料嗎"},{"start":644.428,"end":660.677,"text":"我們跟美國的消美的各項的農工產品我們都有詳細的數字跟其他主要國家的主要產品我們也會做出比較我相信你們是有做比較但是我奇怪的是為什麼7月26號之前不公開呢因為7月23號"},{"start":661.718,"end":682.539,"text":"就知道日本是15%那8月11日行政會開記者會之前我們都看不到官方數字我們只看到民間整理的數字我不相信這個是屬於這個保密這個協議的範圍陳委員一句話那個記者會政府院長記者會裡面寫得很清楚4月我們對外公開就已經講到過這一段我們只是"},{"start":683.3,"end":700.917,"text":"行政院在過去一段時間沒有一直重複我覺得是個別產業所受到的衝擊因為那天8月11號有提了一些我先請教8月11號的行政院記者會有說他們要爭取不要疊加關稅請問又過好多天了有沒有進度呢"},{"start":701.977,"end":718.496,"text":"有沒有進度這件事我是上次的報告有說過歐盟日本他們可以爭取到不疊加是因為他們簽了所謂的協議協議簽了之後他們爭取不疊加像日本也是簽了之後才知道原來他們是疊加"},{"start":720.799,"end":741.396,"text":"台灣跟美國之間還沒有談到協議的內容跟定案簽訂之後 照政府院長所講的我們現在第一個爭取降到合理的稅率第二個爭取不疊價謝謝院長那8月11號行政院召開記者會的時候鞏明星秘書長他就是以工具機產業這張圖表的個別產業影響評估說明他說台灣跟主要的競爭國的關稅差距9%"},{"start":749.443,"end":762.271,"text":"所以中高階的工具機可能會被日本及德國取代你看行政院配合民進黨的大罷免搞了一年多現在終於講實話了會被取代"},{"start":765.26,"end":790.792,"text":"為什麼這個資訊在過去幾個月都不能跟國人好好溝通不能跟國會報告這個一直到被質疑說是黑箱的怒火炎上加上726大罷免大失敗之後才要公開呢過去幾個月您不知道日本的關稅多少台灣的關稅多少我也不知道談判代表也不知道我們怎麼跟你講我們跟日本差多少"},{"start":792.572,"end":812.422,"text":"難道你過去就知道日本是15 台灣是20嗎也不知道啊 沒有人知道啊院長 我提醒的重點是說其實國人給你的壓力或國會給你的壓力其實是你們對美談判的籌碼就是說你要把國內的壓力轉化成談判的助力別的國家就是這麼做的啊"},{"start":812.862,"end":834.398,"text":"別的國家就是這麼做啦當然你看到日本 韓國都這麼做但是民進黨卻一直擔心大罷免大成功會破功啊那又擔心說如果我先公布了衝擊評估那又影響選情啊所以一直就沒有就是一直保持這個隱瞞啊所以我們的感受是如此啊歐盟日本跟美國談好也是在之後的事情"},{"start":834.978,"end":852.297,"text":"在過去你說的民進黨支持大罷免這個前提是不存在即使在那個時段裡面也沒有人知道談判出來最後的結果是如何我今天也許沒有提那個部分但是我們再回到這張簡報我還發現就是韓國工具機它的最惠國關稅是零喔也是疊加上去也是15%"},{"start":853.979,"end":877.694,"text":"而台灣最惠國關稅是4%再加上去24%所以還是差距很大那你們在簡報上提出來的因應措施很多業者跟我們反映說杯水車型毫無幫助因為他沒有辦法降低成本就沒有辦法跟對手有競爭力這是很現實的問題我想請你看一下這篇聯合報的報導標題是"},{"start":880.015,"end":907.253,"text":"美關稅20%已經是仁慈工具機大佬直指關鍵因素在這裡 請問院長您看過這篇報導嗎你有看過這篇報導嗎我約略有看過工具機大佬也就是台灣工具機暨領組建工會的這個名譽理事長許文憲以下都是他說的話美國關稅的真正意圖是要圍堵中國製造要各國去去除紅色供應鏈結果台灣是連"},{"start":908.113,"end":929.594,"text":"工具機的產業都是大量利用中國製造的零組件來降低成本對美國來說台灣就是紅色供應鏈的參與者跟獲利者只要沒有斷掉紅色供應鏈美國對台灣藉由關稅的制度是不會停止的送再多的台積電給美國也沒有用這是他講的話 請問您認同嗎"},{"start":931.817,"end":948.207,"text":"台灣就是這樣子我們更應該立即快速的強調我們的整個供應鏈的經濟安全建立起我們的民主供應鏈在過去這段時間累積下來的我們現在就要強烈的來改所以請委員支持我們把今年的預算恢復過來我們可以做更多的事情"},{"start":948.447,"end":971.998,"text":"那我就是說你剛剛的對應的政策有四項但完全沒有提到去除這個紅色供應鏈嘛所以應該趕快補上嘛所以當你這個地方補助款你把刪掉透過地方政府給企業的總統實際上國安策略裡面就有清楚的這一項我沒有辦法一次的講話把所有的你刪除了地方政府對企業界的補助跟獎勵這個怎麼能夠有辦法"},{"start":982.785,"end":983.146,"text":"好 谢谢"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":39,"blocks":[["陳委員昭姿：（9時15分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員昭姿：卓院長好。我今天聲音有點沙啞，敬請包容。但是我今天還是要跟您討論，因為行政院違法大砍或剋扣一般性地方補助款，這件事情造成地方政府在面對關稅衝擊的時候，其實有很大的影響，稍後我會跟院長分析跟說明，為什麼地方補助款跟應對關稅的衝擊是有相關的，所以我今天的質詢內容會稍微提到關稅的部分，麻煩院長您能夠認真看待、誠懇地回答，好嗎？","院長，因為行政院假借立法院刪減預算之名，對一般性補助款行大砍之實、剋扣之實，我一直在研究到底砍了哪些項目？我也在推敲、思考行政院到底是什麼樣的心態？我分析之後，我的解釋是行政院終究是為了選票、為了「大罷免大成功」，可以說是非常的高明，為什麼我會這樣說呢？麻煩院長看一下這張圖表，這是來自主計總處的資料，關於近三年來行政院撥補地方補助款的情形，其中教育補助在最左邊那一欄，是用來支應學校教育人事費、教育設施補助費、退休給付等，然後另外一項第四欄，其他基本支出補助是補助各地方政府的公務員、警察，還有消防人員的人事費、辦公費及退休金等，這兩個項目其實砍得非常少，是相對持平的。我的解讀是不去得罪公教人員、不去得罪學生家長，所以幾乎沒有去動。","相較之下，人民最有感也最能大作文章的社會福利補助砍了不少，還有基本設施的補助也砍了不少，但是砍得最多的那一項，明顯大幅減少的是平衡預算補助，是在第五欄的地方。2024年這筆數字是520億，但是今年砍了一大半以上，剩下249億，這個數字砍得這麼多，是匪夷所思啦！當然我也可以說是居心叵測！","我想要請問院長，您知不知道透過地方補助再去補助中小企業包括創業補助、研發補助、獎勵等等的是放在哪個項目？主計長麻煩您止步，我想請教院長。院長，您知道透過地方政府去補助各中小企業的獎勵、研發、創業部分是放在哪個項目嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：關於中央對地方的補助，其中有一項在一般性補助裡面叫做增裕財源，就是地方政府如果財源有不足的時候，我們用平衡的精神來增裕它的財源。我剛剛在報告當中說明過，過去這幾年中央與地方的通力合作，在中央大力協助下，地方政府的財政結構已經有所改善，從短絀轉為盈餘……"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：有賸餘的時候，增裕財源的補助就會……"],["陳委員昭姿：你提到平衡預算補助，可是你們砍得最多的也是這一項，你們把透過地方的手去補助中小企業的部分都砍了，所以為什麼我一開始就說……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們並沒有砍這樣的預算。"],["陳委員昭姿：地方補助款跟面對關稅的衝擊其實是有影響的，這部分你們砍得最多，砍了一半以上……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們並不是砍這樣的預算，是增裕財源，增裕財源是它本身財政困難、有短絀的時候，我們想辦法來補實它，它如果沒有，那這個增裕財源就是地方財政自主健康的一個條件。"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，4月7號你邀請立院朝野黨團到行政院針對關稅議題共商國是，對於行政院核定的因應美國關稅提出了880億，院長，你還記得我提出什麼建議、講了什麼話嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員再提點一下。"],["陳委員昭姿：當然院長你日理千機，不記得是很正常的，我要告訴院長，我這個人從來不講場面話，而且我也不講多餘的話，那天輪到我發言時，我是直接講的，我跟院長說880億不夠，我也提到根據幾位產業專家的意見，這個影響評估至少是三個百分點的GDP，那一個百分點的GDP是兩千多億，行政院根本沒有做好衝擊評估，所以我們也沒有資料可以參考。那天你很客氣的請在野黨要支持這個特別條例，你提到說，有關非關稅壁壘的部分可能涉及法規的鬆綁，所以請大家配合。你記得我怎麼回應你嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我記得那天的朝野氣氛，針對那個議題行政院所提出的看法，大家是採取支持的。"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，我當時有請教你、提醒你，是不是要約束你的行政官員不要上大罷免的宣講臺，為什麼呢？因為你一方面請在野黨幫忙，配合通過這個預算、特別條例等等，一方面又要罷免人家，所以我是這樣子提醒院長，但是院長你當天停格了，你沒有回答我，對於這句話，你沒有回答我。"],["卓院長榮泰：因為這兩個不是同樣的……公民團體的行動跟國家面對關稅的衝擊……"],["陳委員昭姿：稍後我有時間再跟院長討論這個部分。院長，我想請你先看一段二十幾秒的影片。","（播放影片）"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，你認為當時蔡英文主席是在說哪一位總統很急、在急什麼呢？他說國會要監督，監督的對象是誰，你記得嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：總統講這段話，他的用意當然是希望國會發揮正常的、強力的監督力量監督行政院，而行政院在做任何談判工作的時候，要守住國家的立場。"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，這是2013年蔡英文主席對馬英九總統的喊話，那個時候是有關服貿黑箱的受訪，當年我們一起反對服貿黑箱，主張臺灣社會應該參與、主張國會應該要監督，結果現在賴政府跟你的團隊都是以跟美方簽有秘密協定為由，隱匿了相關資訊，所以我才播放這段影片讓你還有民進黨政府能夠回想一下，到底在急什麼？為什麼國會不能監督？","院長，美國先是宣布日本的關稅是15%，後來又宣布臺灣的關稅是20%，當然賴總統跟談判團隊一直在告訴我們這個是暫時性的稅率，但是我想請教院長，您認為20%跟15%的差距是大還是不大？"],["卓院長榮泰：15%跟20%這兩個數字本來就有差距。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝院長，其實是對產業有重大的影響，可是當日本政府知道這個15%是疊加上去的時候，他們立刻跟美方溝通，最後美方承認川普總統他簽署對等關稅行政命令的時候不精確，跟他們7月20號兩國商談的結果是不一樣的，所以後來日本銷美的商品跟歐盟一樣，不會在既有的關稅上再疊加這個15%。可是反觀臺灣，我們在最基本的最惠國關稅稅率上又疊加了20%，所以我們是20%加4%，是24%啦！這是以工具機為例，是24%。國人剛開始以為我們跟日本只是差了5%，現在差了9%，那我再來請問院長，請問5%跟9%的差距大不大呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：就數字來看，當然數字是不同的。"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，請問官方有整理我們銷美產品的稅率跟日本的差距嗎？有整理這些資料嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們銷美的各項數字……"],["陳委員昭姿：跟日本比較。"],["卓院長榮泰：農工產品，我們都有詳細的數字……"],["陳委員昭姿：好，我相信你們。"],["卓院長榮泰：跟其他主要國家的主要產品，我們也會做出比較。"],["陳委員昭姿：我相信你們是有做比較，但是我奇怪的是，為什麼7月26號之前不公開呢？因為7月23號就知道日本是15%，那8月11日行政院開記者會之前，我們都看不到官方數字，我們只看到民間整理的數字，我不相信這個是屬於保密協議的範圍。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員，一句話，鄭副院長記者會裡面寫得很清楚，4月我們對外公開就已經講到過這一段，我們只是……行政院在過去一段時間，沒有一直重複……"],["陳委員昭姿：我指的是個別產業所受到的衝擊，因為那天8月11號有提了一些。院長，我先請教，8月11號的行政院記者會有說他們要爭取不要疊加關稅，請問又過好多天了，有沒有進度呢？有沒有進度？這件事。"],["卓院長榮泰：我上次的報告也有說過，歐盟、日本他們可以爭取到不疊加，是因為他們簽了所謂的協議，協議簽了之後，他們爭取不疊加，像日本也是簽了之後才知道，原來他們是疊加。"],["陳委員昭姿：我明白了，現在還沒有進度，但是會努力。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在臺灣跟美國之間，還沒有談到協議的內容跟定案……"],["陳委員昭姿：我明白。"],["卓院長榮泰：簽訂之後，照鄭副院長所講的，我們現在的第一個是爭取降到合理的稅率，第二個是爭取不疊加。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝院長。那8月11號行政院召開記者會的時候，龔明鑫秘書長就是以工具機產業的這一張圖表來做個別產業影響評估說明，他說臺灣跟主要競爭國的關稅差距9%，所以中高階的工具機可能會被日本及德國取代。你看，行政院配合民進黨的大罷免搞了一年多，現在終於講實話了，會被取代，那為什麼這個資訊在過去幾個月都不能跟國人好好溝通、不能跟國會報告，一直到被質疑說是黑箱的怒火炎上，加上七二六大罷免大失敗之後才要公開呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員，過去幾個月，您不知道日本的關稅多少，臺灣的關稅多少我也不知道，談判代表也不知道，我們怎麼跟你講我們跟日本差多少，難道你過去就知道日本是15%，臺灣是20%嗎？也不知道啊！沒有人知道啊！"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，我提醒的重點是說，其實國人給你的壓力或國會給你壓力……"],["卓院長榮泰：很大。"],["陳委員昭姿：沒有，其實是你們對美談判的籌碼。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["陳委員昭姿：就是說你要把國內的壓力轉化成談判的助力，別的國家就是這麼做的，別的國家就是這麼做啦！當然你看到日本、韓國都這麼做，但是民進黨卻一直擔心大罷免大成功會破功，又擔心說如果我先公布衝擊評估，那又會影響選情，所以一直就沒有……就是一直保持隱瞞，所以我們的感受是如此。"],["卓院長榮泰：歐盟、日本跟美國談好，也是在之後的事情，在過去你說的民進黨支持大罷免，這個前提是不存在，即使在那個時段裡面，也沒有人知道談判出來最後的結果是如何。"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，我今天也許沒有時間提那個部分，但是我們再回到這張簡報，我還發現一件事，韓國工具機的最惠國關稅是0%，就算疊加上去也是15%，而臺灣的關稅是4%，再加上去就是24%，所以差距還是很大。關於你們在簡報上提出的因應措施，很多業者跟我們反映說是杯水車薪、毫無幫助，因為他們沒有辦法降低成本，就沒有辦法比對手有競爭力，這是很現實的問題。院長，我想請你看一下這篇聯合報的報導，標題是「美關稅20%『已是仁慈』工具機大老直指關鍵因素在這裡」，請問院長看過這篇報導嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：約略有看過相關報導。"],["陳委員昭姿：工具機大老也就是臺灣工具機暨零組件公會的名譽理事長許文憲，以下都是他說的話，美國關稅的真正意圖是要圍堵中國製造，要各國去除紅色供應鏈，結果臺灣是連工具機產業都是大量利用中國製造的零組件來降低成本，對美國來說，臺灣就是紅色供應鏈的參與者與獲利者，只要沒有斷掉紅色供應鏈，美國對臺灣藉由關稅的制度是不會停止的，送再多台積電給美國也沒有用。這是他講的話，請問您認同嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：臺灣就是這樣，我們更應該立即、快速地強調整個供應鏈的經濟安全，建立我們的民主供應鏈。過去這段時間累積下來的，我們現在就要強烈地來改，所以請委員支持把今年的預算恢復過來，我們可以做更多的事情。"],["陳委員昭姿：院長，你剛剛提出的對應政策有四項，卻完全沒有提到去除紅色供應鏈，所以應該趕快補上嘛！所以當你把地方補助款刪掉透過地方政府給企業的獎勵補助……"],["卓院長榮泰：總統的17項國安策略裡面就有清楚的這一項，我沒有辦法一次講到所有的……"],["陳委員昭姿：你刪除了地方政府對企業界的補助跟獎勵，這樣怎麼能夠有辦法幫助他們？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以趕快回復中央政府的總……追加預算，我們就能夠從速、全數地來做，讓地方的補助款不發生困難，謝謝委員支持。"],["陳委員昭姿：謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝陳昭姿委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、主計長備詢，謝謝。","接下來請吳思瑤委員質詢，傅崐萁委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳昭姿","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","黃國昌","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","陳亭妃","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","張雅琳","賴惠員","王正旭","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2025-08-19"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00004","1147101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費\n等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00005"}}}