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\"text\": \"從我們潘孟安秘書長當任縣長到現在周村民縣長院長只要來到屏東看了屏東的現象應該都讓你驚豔啦我們用最少的預算但是我們做最大的一個效益我想這是人民有感的一個施政的一個成果\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 325.27, \"end\": 325.971, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"潘\", \"start\": 325.971, \"end\": 326.111, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"孟\", \"start\": 326.111, \"end\": 326.231, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"安\", \"start\": 326.231, \"end\": 326.392, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"秘\", \"start\": 326.392, \"end\": 327.032, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"書\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 327.032, \"end\": 327.893, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"縣\"}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 327.893, \"end\": 328.013, \"score\": 0.951}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 328.013, \"end\": 328.213, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"周\", \"start\": 328.213, \"end\": 328.373, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"村\", \"start\": 328.373, \"end\": 328.473, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"測\"}]}, {\"start\": 888.336, \"end\": 908.705, \"text\": \"那表示這個社會的進步有限表現人民的聲音還是沒有被強烈的傳達出來還有行政院一直希望依照憲法依照預算法這個最終極的目標還是沒有被尊重這絕非現在兩院互動應該有的模式院長我記得你前幾天有提出這個針對我們這個整個\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 888.336, \"end\": 888.456, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 888.456, \"end\": 888.616, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"示\", \"start\": 888.616, \"end\": 888.976, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"社\", \"start\": 888.976, \"end\": 889.236, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 889.236, \"end\": 889.597, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"步\", \"start\": 889.597, \"end\": 889.937, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 889.937, \"end\": 890.197, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"限\", \"start\": 890.197, \"end\": 890.917, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 890.917, \"end\": 891.197, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", 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{\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 902.882, \"end\": 903.783, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 903.783, \"end\": 903.983, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"互\", \"start\": 903.983, \"end\": 904.623, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"應\"}, {\"word\": \"該\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 904.623, \"end\": 904.723, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 904.723, \"end\": 904.943, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"模\", \"start\": 904.943, \"end\": 905.183, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 905.183, \"end\": 906.044, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 906.044, \"end\": 906.324, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 906.324, \"end\": 906.744, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"記\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 906.744, \"end\": 906.944, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 906.944, \"end\": 907.124, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 907.124, \"end\": 907.344, 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\"start\": 933.348, \"end\": 933.408, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"狀\"}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 933.408, \"end\": 933.428, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 941.806, \"end\": 941.826, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:17,054 --> 00:00:18,675\n謝謝主席有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備選\n\n2\n00:00:29,758 --> 00:00:53,348\n徐文豪院長好院長辛苦大家辛苦各位院長我想今天再度邀請您到立法院來做這個專案報告我想您應該是百感交集但是應該有萬般無奈因為也是要來面對這樣的一個困境極力說明清楚是是那我想我們還是要回顧還原一下這個一年多來的狀況\n\n3\n00:00:55,169 --> 00:01:22,870\n我想這個院長上任之後我想立法院的狀況您也非常的清楚啦尤其這個我們國民黨跟民眾黨的立委殺紅了眼不管是在委員會也好甚至院會好像在那個砍預算比賽一樣這個國民黨砍完之後砍不夠民眾黨接著一直砍所以我想包含我們這個刪除的預算高達兩千零七十五億凍結預算也高達一千三百多億\n\n4\n00:01:23,650 --> 00:01:33,401\n都創下歷史的新高面對這樣一個困境甚至還要求行政院要自行刪減這個636億調整的部分我想面對這樣一個困境\n\n5\n00:01:34,502 --> 00:01:59,943\n放毒的也是他們現在該毒的還要叫你來解毒找解放我想對行政團隊非常的不公平但是我想這樣的一個狀況不僅我們的重大建設受到影響受困受難的也是我們的百姓我想針對這樣一個狀況屏東縣也是首當其衝在這邊我想我還是要跟幫我們屏東的鄉親甚至我們屏東努力的屏東縣政府來說幾句話所以院長\n\n6\n00:02:02,545 --> 00:02:24,115\n針對目前的這個狀況您自己有什麼樣的感想非常感謝委員的理解這個困難不僅在中央各部會我認為也會連續的影響到地方各種的這個補助環象但是所謂補助是當地方有重大建設或是財政力量比較差的我們與補助\n\n7\n00:02:25,915 --> 00:02:48,425\n從來沒有一個規定說補助要補助到百分之百或是補助到一個額度所以我們是濁於補助那在這個情況底下我們衡量中央政府的財政目前剛剛形容的水庫的水都被抽光了我們只有濁減地方的補助但對那些財政狀況較差的我們還是極力的讓他不要發生困難這個是最高原則\n\n8\n00:02:49,708 --> 00:03:16,169\n院長我想您也非常清楚這個六都跟非六都整個財政結構是相當的不同這些有的這個執政藍營的執政縣市得了便宜還賣乖甚至比院會還跟你槓上在講這些財化法我認為都非常非常的對我們行政團隊不公平像我們非六都來講這個我們原本的自由財源就少了尤其像屏東大家我們都是農業縣讓我們的工商業比較不發達\n\n9\n00:03:18,271 --> 00:03:42,191\n所以我們也很努力在爭取這個一般性補助跟計劃型的補助也是希望讓屏東能夠發展能夠讓這個各行各業都有一定的一個穩定的一個力量那面對這樣一個困境我想不只是這個這一次的預算屏東縣被砍了52億我想是這個首當其衝甚至我們也擔心明年的財化法我們也是非六都\n\n10\n00:03:43,152 --> 00:04:04,435\n受補助成長最少的一個縣市我想這樣子的一個衝擊對我們整個屏東縣的財政也好重大交通建設這個整個預算執行社會福利也好我們面臨很大的一個挑戰跟壓力院長我想您這段期間你也常常來屏東啦你也關心我們農業的一個狀況甚至我們工商業的一個發展\n\n11\n00:04:04,875 --> 00:04:30,354\n甚至你也主持了我們交通建設的一個勘察我想屏東一直在持續的向前推進當中也需要我們省政府大力的支持院長講過一句話只要機器行政年你就會支持這個地方政府我想這句話我們都放在心裡面都非常的感動院長這句話會不會因為目前的困境受到影響我是說支持中央政策的我們一定要跟他保持高度的合作\n\n12\n00:04:31,021 --> 00:04:56,946\n那對中央政策有不同意見的我們盡量去說服他們我今天就是用這樣的一個追加預算的方式來拜託請這個刪減預算之後造成困難讓大家了解請立法院能夠同意一起從中央政策共同來出發來協助地方那當中我想委員過去到現在我知道一直很支持中央的預算中央的政策各方面\n\n13\n00:04:57,486 --> 00:05:24,210\n那我們不需要花太多時間來討論我們只要花更多的時間討論說我們這些給地方的補助當中我們如何去執行就好所以分階段今天是希望說水回到大水庫那跟委員討論的是留給地方的水我們怎麼樣去到該有水的地方去這兩個層次是不一樣的我想面對一個認真的一個努力的一個縣市政府我想院長應該會大力來支持尤其過去\n\n14\n00:05:25,270 --> 00:05:39,544\n從我們潘孟安秘書長當任縣長到現在周村民縣長院長只要來到屏東看了屏東的現象應該都讓你驚豔啦我們用最少的預算但是我們做最大的一個效益我想這是人民有感的一個施政的一個成果\n\n15\n00:05:39,864 --> 00:05:53,637\n但是我也很無奈我們一律用25%的比例來篩檢也是很無奈這也表示說我們這個地方其實是放在同樣的天平上來看的只是說現在跟原來支持的我們是跟他討論說如何去執行\n\n16\n00:05:55,399 --> 00:06:14,100\n但現在請求更多的委員是希望能夠把中央的預算能夠補回來我們就能夠如數如期的來協助院長你現在提出了838億的一個案子嘛當然希望大家可以來集齊嘛因為尤其這個我想這個我們整個尤其屏東縣政府\n\n17\n00:06:15,010 --> 00:06:42,867\n一連串也提出了很多包含這個道路橋樑的一個改建包含校園環境的一個運動設施的改建甚至最重要你現在掃紙化我們針對公托的部分還有我們照顧老人家我們衛生所的改建計畫我們現在都還在我們相關的部會我們不希望因為預算的減少這些照顧百姓的一些政策受到影響我想也要麻煩院長給屏東最大力的支持院長這都不是很大的錢\n\n18\n00:06:43,567 --> 00:06:55,212\n但是對屏東市非常非常的重要但是我想當然大水庫裡面我們都支持但是應該要針對足以需求的項目我們再來做盤點來給予最大最有力的一個支持好不好院長\n\n19\n00:06:55,885 --> 00:07:13,745\n是我知道中央跟地方現在都陷入到這樣的困難那我們共同來解決所以行政院提出的這個解決的方法我一直想到這是現在唯一也是必須要做的那就能夠及時的來化解這樣的中央跟地方共同在財政在預算執行上面的困窘\n\n20\n00:07:15,020 --> 00:07:42,372\n所以院長我還是要提醒就是說這個我們賴總統講的嘛這個我們均衡台灣的一個理念過去我們希望把這個重北青南不均衡的狀況要有所調整但是我也擔心目前依藍白阿拔的這個態度他們現在予取予求什麼都是他們要分好的我們這個非六都這個比較偏遠的地方我們就只能大概去分一些比較不重要的東西我覺得這對我們是\n\n21\n00:07:43,905 --> 00:08:07,473\n不盡公平也情何以堪尤其我們也擔心未來會不會因為這樣子又走回重北侵染的一個狀況軍人台灣一直是總統要求行政院全力去執行的現在包括我們想追加的這筆追加預算以及明年中央政府總預算我們在非常受到嚴控的\n\n22\n00:08:08,871 --> 00:08:22,418\n原則底下因為真的是財政收入發放法拿掉中央太多的錢我們很多項目都無法由中央單獨來負擔我們要嘛跟地方共同調整分擔的比例\n\n23\n00:08:23,689 --> 00:08:52,742\n要嘛就要延長整個工程進行的時間這個會對地方造成很大的影響是沒有錯但是我們還是在盡量的用最精密的一個算法來把這個傷害把它縮到最小讓各地方所影響能夠稍微平均一點比較財政好的地方希望他們自己獨立自主多一點財政差的地方中央資助更多的像我們現在已經把台灣分做五個等級的財政級距\n\n24\n00:08:53,502 --> 00:09:06,654\n那最第五級第四級的我們當然要給予更多的協助這樣才能把它拉平均衡台灣的軍事我想除了這個財政的一個劃分之外那我們也比較擔心就是\n\n25\n00:09:07,522 --> 00:09:22,920\n過去市權分配的中央擁中央的權責地方政府有地方政府執行的量能但是隨著財化法調整之後我們過去財化法我們一直在討論均衡的狀況\n\n26\n00:09:24,361 --> 00:09:53,812\n那中央會不會因為這樣的一個重新調整了之後把很多的事權下放到地方但是相對性我跟我們原民會的主委一樣我們都來服務在屏東縣政府服務過我們都很清楚地方政府的這個人力也好這個整個量能也好真的有些事情是不見得能夠做得那麼如意啦一定需要中央大力來支持尤其這個整個這個重大建設也好還有甚至我這個前上一次我特別請院長要幫忙我們從上游中游下游\n\n27\n00:09:54,272 --> 00:10:07,470\n整個治山防洪整個區域治理治水的一個計畫我們都需要整個一條邊的一個處理從中央跟地方大家來合作那是不是這個機制會因為明年的財化法重新調整過會有所影響\n\n28\n00:10:08,456 --> 00:10:28,395\n其實要調整討論財化法之前應該跟地方制度的精神要一致屬於地方自治事項地方應辦事項要地方自己來承擔中央只是做財力的分佈上比較差的做協助所以剛剛有一個比例剛剛委員提到過去\n\n29\n00:10:29,175 --> 00:10:44,782\n中央60%的財政地方40%但列裡面包括了11%的省政府當時省政府的業務現在都移撥給中央了但又把它回復做6比4之分就表示這11是前\n\n30\n00:10:46,784 --> 00:11:04,786\n邊在地方事情邊在中央就失衡了但是我們現在衡量整個來看就像我們現在經濟部所提出的4年1000億的縣市館河川的改善計畫過去我們都做的是中央做的是中央館河川對縣市館河川其實是地方該做的\n\n31\n00:11:05,447 --> 00:11:30,414\n但我們看到這樣解決不了問題很多末端跟源頭地方管的一些野溪、縣市管河川還是有問題所以我們還是願意編在編的過程如果中央真的在4年內要籌出1000億有困難我們還是要跟地方談也許我們有一個適當的比例地方也負擔一些中央也負擔一些用4年1000億把它源頭跟末端給它做好這樣才能共同解決問題\n\n32\n00:11:31,754 --> 00:11:56,553\n萬一中央政府真的財政有困難不行這個事情也做不了我們還在做這樣的努力跟規劃我很贊成你的這個看法不過就是我也擔心這個在野黨能不能去真的支持這樣的一個立場然後甚至到時候在這個整個這個我們提出相關的案子的時候還會把你卡關了我也很擔心這個東西但是每個委員一聽到治水都說全力支持我也希望這是我們共同的信念\n\n33\n00:11:57,988 --> 00:12:26,221\n我想院長最近一萬塊的事件甚至我看藍白提出軍人志願役的加急甚至針對禁法補償這一連串我想他們思考的當然是名為照顧我們鄉親但是我看到的是他們應該是行政策買標之實未來我們也擔心會不會一連串這樣的一個政策不斷地推出來\n\n34\n00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,064\n企圖讓行政院要買單院長你擔心這樣的狀況嗎普發現金經過風災之後面對關稅的衝擊再經過大院很多朝委黨團各委員\n\n35\n00:12:40,748 --> 00:13:04,276\n特別表示不同的聲音以及黨團的意見我們都聽到了我們也看到這個普發先進2350億的編列加到這個任性特別條例裡面來這原來對憲法局預算精神是完全違背的但是我們看到大家的聲音我們認為第一個如果因此而讓我們的產業支持的預算沒辦法通過\n\n36\n00:13:05,316 --> 00:13:21,133\n照顧民生變化通過還有國土任性變化通過將是國家整個的停頓下來所以我們願意朝這個方向來調整所以我們提出了修正任性條例我也希望任性條例大家能夠平心靜氣合理的來談\n\n37\n00:13:21,923 --> 00:13:51,563\n第一個解決了各項大家爭議的預算都能夠執行第二個化解了讓所有的憲政危機憲政秩序能夠恢復正常第三個時間上我們能夠盡快的來執行所有委員關心的問題以及國人所期待的在三個理由之下我懇請大院能夠將任性特別條例的修正考案能夠緊速的放入議程討論我們快快的邊依據來邊據邊立這個特別預算那就可以進一步來推動\n\n38\n00:13:52,663 --> 00:14:20,671\n我想這是一個很好的開始希望能夠朝野來支持那針對明年度的總預算你會擔心明年的編列會出狀況嗎有今年的經驗我認為朝野各黨團在協商的過程一定會更精密一點行政院會主動涉入介入這個協商我們會主動涉入提出我們應該有的講法跟我們的期待以及兩院應該有的良性互動\n\n39\n00:14:21,786 --> 00:14:47,242\n但是我也擔心這樣的能頭請骨的一個模式會歷史重演甚至在這個你準備要開始編列明年度的預算了災黨會端出什麼樣的菜要求行政院要買單我想院長跟團隊要做好準備在今年整個社會氛圍底下我們只有抱著樂觀跟期待才能往下走如果省運明年度的預算又重複今年的覆測\n\n40\n00:14:48,336 --> 00:15:08,705\n那表示這個社會的進步有限表現人民的聲音還是沒有被強烈的傳達出來還有行政院一直希望依照憲法依照預算法這個最終極的目標還是沒有被尊重這絕非現在兩院互動應該有的模式院長我記得你前幾天有提出這個針對我們這個整個\n\n41\n00:15:11,872 --> 00:15:33,428\n沿海地區跟地化地區一個電能地下化的一個概念要推動那因為我剛好昨天我從這個平和公路下到恆春也去看了幾個淹水的地方那沿路上我就想到我們蘇貞昌前院長這個也是他在任內的一個推動所以從去年的風災三坨到今年風災這個平和公路恆春半島都沒有發生停電的一個狀況好謝謝\n\n42\n00:15:41,806 --> 00:15:41,826\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n17054\t18675\t謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備選\n29758\t53348\t徐文豪 院長好 院長辛苦大家辛苦 各位院長我想今天再度邀請您到立法院來做這個專案報告我想您應該是百感交集但是應該有萬般無奈因為也是要來面對這樣的一個困境極力說明清楚是是 那我想我們還是要回顧還原一下這個一年多來的狀況\n55169\t82870\t我想這個院長上任之後我想立法院的狀況您也非常的清楚啦尤其這個我們國民黨跟民眾黨的立委殺紅了眼不管是在委員會也好甚至院會好像在那個砍預算比賽一樣這個國民黨砍完之後砍不夠民眾黨接著一直砍所以我想包含我們這個刪除的預算高達兩千零七十五億凍結預算也高達一千三百多億\n83650\t93401\t都創下歷史的新高面對這樣一個困境甚至還要求行政院要自行刪減這個636億調整的部分我想面對這樣一個困境\n94502\t119943\t放毒的也是他們現在該毒的還要叫你來解毒找解放我想對行政團隊非常的不公平但是我想這樣的一個狀況不僅我們的重大建設受到影響受困受難的也是我們的百姓我想針對這樣一個狀況屏東縣也是首當其衝在這邊我想我還是要跟幫我們屏東的鄉親甚至我們屏東努力的屏東縣政府來說幾句話所以院長\n122545\t144115\t針對目前的這個狀況您自己有什麼樣的感想非常感謝委員的理解這個困難不僅在中央各部會我認為也會連續的影響到地方各種的這個補助環象但是所謂補助是當地方有重大建設或是財政力量比較差的我們與補助\n145915\t168425\t從來沒有一個規定說補助要補助到百分之百或是補助到一個額度所以我們是濁於補助那在這個情況底下我們衡量中央政府的財政目前剛剛形容的水庫的水都被抽光了我們只有濁減地方的補助但對那些財政狀況較差的我們還是極力的讓他不要發生困難這個是最高原則\n169708\t196169\t院長我想您也非常清楚這個六都跟非六都整個財政結構是相當的不同這些有的這個執政藍營的執政縣市得了便宜還賣乖甚至比院會還跟你槓上在講這些財化法我認為都非常非常的對我們行政團隊不公平像我們非六都來講這個我們原本的自由財源就少了尤其像屏東大家我們都是農業縣讓我們的工商業比較不發達\n198271\t222191\t所以我們也很努力在爭取這個一般性補助跟計劃型的補助也是希望讓屏東能夠發展能夠讓這個各行各業都有一定的一個穩定的一個力量那面對這樣一個困境我想不只是這個這一次的預算屏東縣被砍了52億我想是這個首當其衝甚至我們也擔心明年的財化法我們也是非六都\n223152\t244435\t受補助成長最少的一個縣市我想這樣子的一個衝擊對我們整個屏東縣的財政也好重大交通建設這個整個預算執行社會福利也好我們面臨很大的一個挑戰跟壓力院長我想您這段期間你也常常來屏東啦你也關心我們農業的一個狀況甚至我們工商業的一個發展\n244875\t270354\t甚至你也主持了我們交通建設的一個勘察我想屏東一直在持續的向前推進當中也需要我們省政府大力的支持院長講過一句話只要機器行政年你就會支持這個地方政府我想這句話我們都放在心裡面都非常的感動院長這句話會不會因為目前的困境受到影響我是說支持中央政策的我們一定要跟他保持高度的合作\n271021\t296946\t那對中央政策有不同意見的我們盡量去說服他們我今天就是用這樣的一個追加預算的方式來拜託請這個刪減預算之後造成困難讓大家了解請立法院能夠同意一起從中央政策共同來出發來協助地方那當中我想委員過去到現在我知道一直很支持中央的預算中央的政策各方面\n297486\t324210\t那我們不需要花太多時間來討論我們只要花更多的時間討論說我們這些給地方的補助當中我們如何去執行就好所以分階段今天是希望說水回到大水庫那跟委員討論的是留給地方的水我們怎麼樣去到該有水的地方去這兩個層次是不一樣的我想面對一個認真的一個努力的一個縣市政府我想院長應該會大力來支持尤其過去\n325270\t339544\t從我們潘孟安秘書長當任縣長到現在周村民縣長院長只要來到屏東看了屏東的現象應該都讓你驚豔啦我們用最少的預算但是我們做最大的一個效益我想這是人民有感的一個施政的一個成果\n339864\t353637\t但是我也很無奈我們一律用25%的比例來篩檢也是很無奈這也表示說我們這個地方其實是放在同樣的天平上來看的只是說現在跟原來支持的我們是跟他討論說如何去執行\n355399\t374100\t但現在請求更多的委員是希望能夠把中央的預算能夠補回來我們就能夠如數如期的來協助院長你現在提出了838億的一個案子嘛當然希望大家可以來集齊嘛因為尤其這個我想這個我們整個尤其屏東縣政府\n375010\t402867\t一連串也提出了很多包含這個道路橋樑的一個改建包含校園環境的一個運動設施的改建甚至最重要你現在掃紙化我們針對公托的部分還有我們照顧老人家我們衛生所的改建計畫我們現在都還在我們相關的部會我們不希望因為預算的減少這些照顧百姓的一些政策受到影響我想也要麻煩院長給屏東最大力的支持院長這都不是很大的錢\n403567\t415212\t但是對屏東市非常非常的重要但是我想當然大水庫裡面我們都支持但是應該要針對足以需求的項目我們再來做盤點來給予最大最有力的一個支持好不好院長\n415885\t433745\t是 我知道中央跟地方現在都陷入到這樣的困難那我們共同來解決所以行政院提出的這個解決的方法我一直想到這是現在唯一也是必須要做的那就能夠及時的來化解這樣的中央跟地方共同在財政在預算執行上面的困窘\n435020\t462372\t所以院長我還是要提醒就是說這個我們賴總統講的嘛這個我們均衡台灣的一個理念過去我們希望把這個重北青南不均衡的狀況要有所調整但是我也擔心目前依藍白阿拔的這個態度他們現在予取予求什麼都是他們要分好的我們這個非六都這個比較偏遠的地方我們就只能大概去分一些比較不重要的東西我覺得這對我們是\n463905\t487473\t不盡公平也情何以堪尤其我們也擔心未來會不會因為這樣子又走回重北侵染的一個狀況軍人台灣一直是總統要求行政院全力去執行的現在包括我們想追加的這筆追加預算以及明年中央政府總預算我們在非常受到嚴控的\n488871\t502418\t原則底下因為真的是財政收入發放法拿掉中央太多的錢我們很多項目都無法由中央單獨來負擔我們要嘛跟地方共同調整分擔的比例\n503689\t532742\t要嘛就要延長整個工程進行的時間這個會對地方造成很大的影響是沒有錯但是我們還是在盡量的用最精密的一個算法來把這個傷害把它縮到最小讓各地方所影響能夠稍微平均一點比較財政好的地方希望他們自己獨立自主多一點財政差的地方中央資助更多的像我們現在已經把台灣分做五個等級的財政級距\n533502\t546654\t那最第五級第四級的我們當然要給予更多的協助這樣才能把它拉平均衡台灣的軍事我想除了這個財政的一個劃分之外那我們也比較擔心就是\n547522\t562920\t過去市權分配的中央擁中央的權責地方政府有地方政府執行的量能但是隨著財化法調整之後我們過去財化法我們一直在討論均衡的狀況\n564361\t593812\t那中央會不會因為這樣的一個重新調整了之後把很多的事權下放到地方但是相對性我跟我們原民會的主委一樣我們都來服務在屏東縣政府服務過我們都很清楚地方政府的這個人力也好這個整個量能也好真的有些事情是不見得能夠做得那麼如意啦一定需要中央大力來支持尤其這個整個這個重大建設也好還有甚至我這個前上一次我特別請院長要幫忙我們從上游中游下游\n594272\t607470\t整個治山防洪整個區域治理治水的一個計畫我們都需要整個一條邊的一個處理從中央跟地方大家來合作那是不是這個機制會因為明年的財化法重新調整過會有所影響\n608456\t628395\t其實要調整討論財化法之前應該跟地方制度的精神要一致屬於地方自治事項地方應辦事項要地方自己來承擔中央只是做財力的分佈上比較差的做協助所以剛剛有一個比例剛剛委員提到過去\n629175\t644782\t中央60%的財政 地方40%但列裡面包括了11%的省政府當時省政府的業務現在都移撥給中央了但又把它回復做6比4之分就表示這11是前\n646784\t664786\t邊在地方 事情邊在中央就失衡了但是我們現在衡量整個來看就像我們現在經濟部所提出的4年1000億的縣市館河川的改善計畫過去我們都做的是中央做的是中央館河川對縣市館河川其實是地方該做的\n665447\t690414\t但我們看到這樣解決不了問題很多末端跟源頭地方管的一些野溪、縣市管河川還是有問題所以我們還是願意編在編的過程如果中央真的在4年內要籌出1000億有困難我們還是要跟地方談也許我們有一個適當的比例地方也負擔一些 中央也負擔一些用4年1000億把它源頭跟末端給它做好這樣才能共同解決問題\n691754\t716553\t萬一中央政府真的財政有困難不行這個事情也做不了我們還在做這樣的努力跟規劃我很贊成你的這個看法不過就是我也擔心這個在野黨能不能去真的支持這樣的一個立場然後甚至到時候在這個整個這個我們提出相關的案子的時候還會把你卡關了我也很擔心這個東西但是每個委員一聽到治水都說全力支持我也希望這是我們共同的信念\n717988\t746221\t我想院長最近一萬塊的事件甚至我看藍白提出軍人志願役的加急甚至針對禁法補償這一連串我想他們思考的當然是名為照顧我們鄉親但是我看到的是他們應該是行政策買標之實未來我們也擔心會不會一連串這樣的一個政策不斷地推出來\n747040\t751064\t企圖讓行政院要買單院長 你擔心這樣的狀況嗎普發現金經過風災之後面對關稅的衝擊再經過大院很多朝委黨團各委員\n760748\t784276\t特別表示不同的聲音以及黨團的意見我們都聽到了我們也看到這個普發先進2350億的編列加到這個任性特別條例裡面來這原來對憲法局預算精神是完全違背的但是我們看到大家的聲音我們認為第一個如果因此而讓我們的產業支持的預算沒辦法通過\n785316\t801133\t照顧民生變化通過還有國土任性變化通過將是國家整個的停頓下來所以我們願意朝這個方向來調整所以我們提出了修正任性條例我也希望任性條例大家能夠平心靜氣合理的來談\n801923\t831563\t第一個解決了各項大家爭議的預算都能夠執行第二個化解了讓所有的憲政危機憲政秩序能夠恢復正常第三個時間上我們能夠盡快的來執行所有委員關心的問題以及國人所期待的在三個理由之下我懇請大院能夠將任性特別條例的修正考案能夠緊速的放入議程討論我們快快的邊依據來邊據邊立這個特別預算那就可以進一步來推動\n832663\t860671\t我想這是一個很好的開始希望能夠朝野來支持那針對明年度的總預算你會擔心明年的編列會出狀況嗎有今年的經驗我認為朝野各黨團在協商的過程一定會更精密一點行政院會主動涉入介入這個協商我們會主動涉入提出我們應該有的講法跟我們的期待以及兩院應該有的良性互動\n861786\t887242\t但是我也擔心這樣的能頭請骨的一個模式會歷史重演甚至在這個你準備要開始編列明年度的預算了災黨會端出什麼樣的菜要求行政院要買單我想院長跟團隊要做好準備在今年整個社會氛圍底下我們只有抱著樂觀跟期待才能往下走如果省運明年度的預算又重複今年的覆測\n888336\t908705\t那表示這個社會的進步有限表現人民的聲音還是沒有被強烈的傳達出來還有行政院一直希望依照憲法依照預算法這個最終極的目標還是沒有被尊重這絕非現在兩院互動應該有的模式院長我記得你前幾天有提出這個針對我們這個整個\n911872\t933428\t沿海地區跟地化地區一個電能地下化的一個概念要推動那因為我剛好昨天我從這個平和公路下到恆春也去看了幾個淹水的地方那沿路上我就想到我們蘇貞昌前院長這個也是他在任內的一個推動所以從去年的風災三坨到今年風災這個平和公路恆春半島都沒有發生停電的一個狀況好謝謝\n941806\t941826\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備選\n徐文豪 院長好 院長辛苦大家辛苦 各位院長我想今天再度邀請您到立法院來做這個專案報告我想您應該是百感交集但是應該有萬般無奈因為也是要來面對這樣的一個困境極力說明清楚是是 那我想我們還是要回顧還原一下這個一年多來的狀況\n我想這個院長上任之後我想立法院的狀況您也非常的清楚啦尤其這個我們國民黨跟民眾黨的立委殺紅了眼不管是在委員會也好甚至院會好像在那個砍預算比賽一樣這個國民黨砍完之後砍不夠民眾黨接著一直砍所以我想包含我們這個刪除的預算高達兩千零七十五億凍結預算也高達一千三百多億\n都創下歷史的新高面對這樣一個困境甚至還要求行政院要自行刪減這個636億調整的部分我想面對這樣一個困境\n放毒的也是他們現在該毒的還要叫你來解毒找解放我想對行政團隊非常的不公平但是我想這樣的一個狀況不僅我們的重大建設受到影響受困受難的也是我們的百姓我想針對這樣一個狀況屏東縣也是首當其衝在這邊我想我還是要跟幫我們屏東的鄉親甚至我們屏東努力的屏東縣政府來說幾句話所以院長\n針對目前的這個狀況您自己有什麼樣的感想非常感謝委員的理解這個困難不僅在中央各部會我認為也會連續的影響到地方各種的這個補助環象但是所謂補助是當地方有重大建設或是財政力量比較差的我們與補助\n從來沒有一個規定說補助要補助到百分之百或是補助到一個額度所以我們是濁於補助那在這個情況底下我們衡量中央政府的財政目前剛剛形容的水庫的水都被抽光了我們只有濁減地方的補助但對那些財政狀況較差的我們還是極力的讓他不要發生困難這個是最高原則\n院長我想您也非常清楚這個六都跟非六都整個財政結構是相當的不同這些有的這個執政藍營的執政縣市得了便宜還賣乖甚至比院會還跟你槓上在講這些財化法我認為都非常非常的對我們行政團隊不公平像我們非六都來講這個我們原本的自由財源就少了尤其像屏東大家我們都是農業縣讓我們的工商業比較不發達\n所以我們也很努力在爭取這個一般性補助跟計劃型的補助也是希望讓屏東能夠發展能夠讓這個各行各業都有一定的一個穩定的一個力量那面對這樣一個困境我想不只是這個這一次的預算屏東縣被砍了52億我想是這個首當其衝甚至我們也擔心明年的財化法我們也是非六都\n受補助成長最少的一個縣市我想這樣子的一個衝擊對我們整個屏東縣的財政也好重大交通建設這個整個預算執行社會福利也好我們面臨很大的一個挑戰跟壓力院長我想您這段期間你也常常來屏東啦你也關心我們農業的一個狀況甚至我們工商業的一個發展\n甚至你也主持了我們交通建設的一個勘察我想屏東一直在持續的向前推進當中也需要我們省政府大力的支持院長講過一句話只要機器行政年你就會支持這個地方政府我想這句話我們都放在心裡面都非常的感動院長這句話會不會因為目前的困境受到影響我是說支持中央政策的我們一定要跟他保持高度的合作\n那對中央政策有不同意見的我們盡量去說服他們我今天就是用這樣的一個追加預算的方式來拜託請這個刪減預算之後造成困難讓大家了解請立法院能夠同意一起從中央政策共同來出發來協助地方那當中我想委員過去到現在我知道一直很支持中央的預算中央的政策各方面\n那我們不需要花太多時間來討論我們只要花更多的時間討論說我們這些給地方的補助當中我們如何去執行就好所以分階段今天是希望說水回到大水庫那跟委員討論的是留給地方的水我們怎麼樣去到該有水的地方去這兩個層次是不一樣的我想面對一個認真的一個努力的一個縣市政府我想院長應該會大力來支持尤其過去\n從我們潘孟安秘書長當任縣長到現在周村民縣長院長只要來到屏東看了屏東的現象應該都讓你驚豔啦我們用最少的預算但是我們做最大的一個效益我想這是人民有感的一個施政的一個成果\n但是我也很無奈我們一律用25%的比例來篩檢也是很無奈這也表示說我們這個地方其實是放在同樣的天平上來看的只是說現在跟原來支持的我們是跟他討論說如何去執行\n但現在請求更多的委員是希望能夠把中央的預算能夠補回來我們就能夠如數如期的來協助院長你現在提出了838億的一個案子嘛當然希望大家可以來集齊嘛因為尤其這個我想這個我們整個尤其屏東縣政府\n一連串也提出了很多包含這個道路橋樑的一個改建包含校園環境的一個運動設施的改建甚至最重要你現在掃紙化我們針對公托的部分還有我們照顧老人家我們衛生所的改建計畫我們現在都還在我們相關的部會我們不希望因為預算的減少這些照顧百姓的一些政策受到影響我想也要麻煩院長給屏東最大力的支持院長這都不是很大的錢\n但是對屏東市非常非常的重要但是我想當然大水庫裡面我們都支持但是應該要針對足以需求的項目我們再來做盤點來給予最大最有力的一個支持好不好院長\n是 我知道中央跟地方現在都陷入到這樣的困難那我們共同來解決所以行政院提出的這個解決的方法我一直想到這是現在唯一也是必須要做的那就能夠及時的來化解這樣的中央跟地方共同在財政在預算執行上面的困窘\n所以院長我還是要提醒就是說這個我們賴總統講的嘛這個我們均衡台灣的一個理念過去我們希望把這個重北青南不均衡的狀況要有所調整但是我也擔心目前依藍白阿拔的這個態度他們現在予取予求什麼都是他們要分好的我們這個非六都這個比較偏遠的地方我們就只能大概去分一些比較不重要的東西我覺得這對我們是\n不盡公平也情何以堪尤其我們也擔心未來會不會因為這樣子又走回重北侵染的一個狀況軍人台灣一直是總統要求行政院全力去執行的現在包括我們想追加的這筆追加預算以及明年中央政府總預算我們在非常受到嚴控的\n原則底下因為真的是財政收入發放法拿掉中央太多的錢我們很多項目都無法由中央單獨來負擔我們要嘛跟地方共同調整分擔的比例\n要嘛就要延長整個工程進行的時間這個會對地方造成很大的影響是沒有錯但是我們還是在盡量的用最精密的一個算法來把這個傷害把它縮到最小讓各地方所影響能夠稍微平均一點比較財政好的地方希望他們自己獨立自主多一點財政差的地方中央資助更多的像我們現在已經把台灣分做五個等級的財政級距\n那最第五級第四級的我們當然要給予更多的協助這樣才能把它拉平均衡台灣的軍事我想除了這個財政的一個劃分之外那我們也比較擔心就是\n過去市權分配的中央擁中央的權責地方政府有地方政府執行的量能但是隨著財化法調整之後我們過去財化法我們一直在討論均衡的狀況\n那中央會不會因為這樣的一個重新調整了之後把很多的事權下放到地方但是相對性我跟我們原民會的主委一樣我們都來服務在屏東縣政府服務過我們都很清楚地方政府的這個人力也好這個整個量能也好真的有些事情是不見得能夠做得那麼如意啦一定需要中央大力來支持尤其這個整個這個重大建設也好還有甚至我這個前上一次我特別請院長要幫忙我們從上游中游下游\n整個治山防洪整個區域治理治水的一個計畫我們都需要整個一條邊的一個處理從中央跟地方大家來合作那是不是這個機制會因為明年的財化法重新調整過會有所影響\n其實要調整討論財化法之前應該跟地方制度的精神要一致屬於地方自治事項地方應辦事項要地方自己來承擔中央只是做財力的分佈上比較差的做協助所以剛剛有一個比例剛剛委員提到過去\n中央60%的財政 地方40%但列裡面包括了11%的省政府當時省政府的業務現在都移撥給中央了但又把它回復做6比4之分就表示這11是前\n邊在地方 事情邊在中央就失衡了但是我們現在衡量整個來看就像我們現在經濟部所提出的4年1000億的縣市館河川的改善計畫過去我們都做的是中央做的是中央館河川對縣市館河川其實是地方該做的\n但我們看到這樣解決不了問題很多末端跟源頭地方管的一些野溪、縣市管河川還是有問題所以我們還是願意編在編的過程如果中央真的在4年內要籌出1000億有困難我們還是要跟地方談也許我們有一個適當的比例地方也負擔一些 中央也負擔一些用4年1000億把它源頭跟末端給它做好這樣才能共同解決問題\n萬一中央政府真的財政有困難不行這個事情也做不了我們還在做這樣的努力跟規劃我很贊成你的這個看法不過就是我也擔心這個在野黨能不能去真的支持這樣的一個立場然後甚至到時候在這個整個這個我們提出相關的案子的時候還會把你卡關了我也很擔心這個東西但是每個委員一聽到治水都說全力支持我也希望這是我們共同的信念\n我想院長最近一萬塊的事件甚至我看藍白提出軍人志願役的加急甚至針對禁法補償這一連串我想他們思考的當然是名為照顧我們鄉親但是我看到的是他們應該是行政策買標之實未來我們也擔心會不會一連串這樣的一個政策不斷地推出來\n企圖讓行政院要買單院長 你擔心這樣的狀況嗎普發現金經過風災之後面對關稅的衝擊再經過大院很多朝委黨團各委員\n特別表示不同的聲音以及黨團的意見我們都聽到了我們也看到這個普發先進2350億的編列加到這個任性特別條例裡面來這原來對憲法局預算精神是完全違背的但是我們看到大家的聲音我們認為第一個如果因此而讓我們的產業支持的預算沒辦法通過\n照顧民生變化通過還有國土任性變化通過將是國家整個的停頓下來所以我們願意朝這個方向來調整所以我們提出了修正任性條例我也希望任性條例大家能夠平心靜氣合理的來談\n第一個解決了各項大家爭議的預算都能夠執行第二個化解了讓所有的憲政危機憲政秩序能夠恢復正常第三個時間上我們能夠盡快的來執行所有委員關心的問題以及國人所期待的在三個理由之下我懇請大院能夠將任性特別條例的修正考案能夠緊速的放入議程討論我們快快的邊依據來邊據邊立這個特別預算那就可以進一步來推動\n我想這是一個很好的開始希望能夠朝野來支持那針對明年度的總預算你會擔心明年的編列會出狀況嗎有今年的經驗我認為朝野各黨團在協商的過程一定會更精密一點行政院會主動涉入介入這個協商我們會主動涉入提出我們應該有的講法跟我們的期待以及兩院應該有的良性互動\n但是我也擔心這樣的能頭請骨的一個模式會歷史重演甚至在這個你準備要開始編列明年度的預算了災黨會端出什麼樣的菜要求行政院要買單我想院長跟團隊要做好準備在今年整個社會氛圍底下我們只有抱著樂觀跟期待才能往下走如果省運明年度的預算又重複今年的覆測\n那表示這個社會的進步有限表現人民的聲音還是沒有被強烈的傳達出來還有行政院一直希望依照憲法依照預算法這個最終極的目標還是沒有被尊重這絕非現在兩院互動應該有的模式院長我記得你前幾天有提出這個針對我們這個整個\n沿海地區跟地化地區一個電能地下化的一個概念要推動那因為我剛好昨天我從這個平和公路下到恆春也去看了幾個淹水的地方那沿路上我就想到我們蘇貞昌前院長這個也是他在任內的一個推動所以從去年的風災三坨到今年風災這個平和公路恆春半島都沒有發生停電的一個狀況好謝謝\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:17.054 --> 00:18.675\n謝謝主席有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備選\n\n00:29.758 --> 00:53.348\n徐文豪院長好院長辛苦大家辛苦各位院長我想今天再度邀請您到立法院來做這個專案報告我想您應該是百感交集但是應該有萬般無奈因為也是要來面對這樣的一個困境極力說明清楚是是那我想我們還是要回顧還原一下這個一年多來的狀況\n\n00:55.169 --> 01:22.870\n我想這個院長上任之後我想立法院的狀況您也非常的清楚啦尤其這個我們國民黨跟民眾黨的立委殺紅了眼不管是在委員會也好甚至院會好像在那個砍預算比賽一樣這個國民黨砍完之後砍不夠民眾黨接著一直砍所以我想包含我們這個刪除的預算高達兩千零七十五億凍結預算也高達一千三百多億\n\n01:23.650 --> 01:33.401\n都創下歷史的新高面對這樣一個困境甚至還要求行政院要自行刪減這個636億調整的部分我想面對這樣一個困境\n\n01:34.502 --> 01:59.943\n放毒的也是他們現在該毒的還要叫你來解毒找解放我想對行政團隊非常的不公平但是我想這樣的一個狀況不僅我們的重大建設受到影響受困受難的也是我們的百姓我想針對這樣一個狀況屏東縣也是首當其衝在這邊我想我還是要跟幫我們屏東的鄉親甚至我們屏東努力的屏東縣政府來說幾句話所以院長\n\n02:02.545 --> 02:24.115\n針對目前的這個狀況您自己有什麼樣的感想非常感謝委員的理解這個困難不僅在中央各部會我認為也會連續的影響到地方各種的這個補助環象但是所謂補助是當地方有重大建設或是財政力量比較差的我們與補助\n\n02:25.915 --> 02:48.425\n從來沒有一個規定說補助要補助到百分之百或是補助到一個額度所以我們是濁於補助那在這個情況底下我們衡量中央政府的財政目前剛剛形容的水庫的水都被抽光了我們只有濁減地方的補助但對那些財政狀況較差的我們還是極力的讓他不要發生困難這個是最高原則\n\n02:49.708 --> 03:16.169\n院長我想您也非常清楚這個六都跟非六都整個財政結構是相當的不同這些有的這個執政藍營的執政縣市得了便宜還賣乖甚至比院會還跟你槓上在講這些財化法我認為都非常非常的對我們行政團隊不公平像我們非六都來講這個我們原本的自由財源就少了尤其像屏東大家我們都是農業縣讓我們的工商業比較不發達\n\n03:18.271 --> 03:42.191\n所以我們也很努力在爭取這個一般性補助跟計劃型的補助也是希望讓屏東能夠發展能夠讓這個各行各業都有一定的一個穩定的一個力量那面對這樣一個困境我想不只是這個這一次的預算屏東縣被砍了52億我想是這個首當其衝甚至我們也擔心明年的財化法我們也是非六都\n\n03:43.152 --> 04:04.435\n受補助成長最少的一個縣市我想這樣子的一個衝擊對我們整個屏東縣的財政也好重大交通建設這個整個預算執行社會福利也好我們面臨很大的一個挑戰跟壓力院長我想您這段期間你也常常來屏東啦你也關心我們農業的一個狀況甚至我們工商業的一個發展\n\n04:04.875 --> 04:30.354\n甚至你也主持了我們交通建設的一個勘察我想屏東一直在持續的向前推進當中也需要我們省政府大力的支持院長講過一句話只要機器行政年你就會支持這個地方政府我想這句話我們都放在心裡面都非常的感動院長這句話會不會因為目前的困境受到影響我是說支持中央政策的我們一定要跟他保持高度的合作\n\n04:31.021 --> 04:56.946\n那對中央政策有不同意見的我們盡量去說服他們我今天就是用這樣的一個追加預算的方式來拜託請這個刪減預算之後造成困難讓大家了解請立法院能夠同意一起從中央政策共同來出發來協助地方那當中我想委員過去到現在我知道一直很支持中央的預算中央的政策各方面\n\n04:57.486 --> 05:24.210\n那我們不需要花太多時間來討論我們只要花更多的時間討論說我們這些給地方的補助當中我們如何去執行就好所以分階段今天是希望說水回到大水庫那跟委員討論的是留給地方的水我們怎麼樣去到該有水的地方去這兩個層次是不一樣的我想面對一個認真的一個努力的一個縣市政府我想院長應該會大力來支持尤其過去\n\n05:25.270 --> 05:39.544\n從我們潘孟安秘書長當任縣長到現在周村民縣長院長只要來到屏東看了屏東的現象應該都讓你驚豔啦我們用最少的預算但是我們做最大的一個效益我想這是人民有感的一個施政的一個成果\n\n05:39.864 --> 05:53.637\n但是我也很無奈我們一律用25%的比例來篩檢也是很無奈這也表示說我們這個地方其實是放在同樣的天平上來看的只是說現在跟原來支持的我們是跟他討論說如何去執行\n\n05:55.399 --> 06:14.100\n但現在請求更多的委員是希望能夠把中央的預算能夠補回來我們就能夠如數如期的來協助院長你現在提出了838億的一個案子嘛當然希望大家可以來集齊嘛因為尤其這個我想這個我們整個尤其屏東縣政府\n\n06:15.010 --> 06:42.867\n一連串也提出了很多包含這個道路橋樑的一個改建包含校園環境的一個運動設施的改建甚至最重要你現在掃紙化我們針對公托的部分還有我們照顧老人家我們衛生所的改建計畫我們現在都還在我們相關的部會我們不希望因為預算的減少這些照顧百姓的一些政策受到影響我想也要麻煩院長給屏東最大力的支持院長這都不是很大的錢\n\n06:43.567 --> 06:55.212\n但是對屏東市非常非常的重要但是我想當然大水庫裡面我們都支持但是應該要針對足以需求的項目我們再來做盤點來給予最大最有力的一個支持好不好院長\n\n06:55.885 --> 07:13.745\n是我知道中央跟地方現在都陷入到這樣的困難那我們共同來解決所以行政院提出的這個解決的方法我一直想到這是現在唯一也是必須要做的那就能夠及時的來化解這樣的中央跟地方共同在財政在預算執行上面的困窘\n\n07:15.020 --> 07:42.372\n所以院長我還是要提醒就是說這個我們賴總統講的嘛這個我們均衡台灣的一個理念過去我們希望把這個重北青南不均衡的狀況要有所調整但是我也擔心目前依藍白阿拔的這個態度他們現在予取予求什麼都是他們要分好的我們這個非六都這個比較偏遠的地方我們就只能大概去分一些比較不重要的東西我覺得這對我們是\n\n07:43.905 --> 08:07.473\n不盡公平也情何以堪尤其我們也擔心未來會不會因為這樣子又走回重北侵染的一個狀況軍人台灣一直是總統要求行政院全力去執行的現在包括我們想追加的這筆追加預算以及明年中央政府總預算我們在非常受到嚴控的\n\n08:08.871 --> 08:22.418\n原則底下因為真的是財政收入發放法拿掉中央太多的錢我們很多項目都無法由中央單獨來負擔我們要嘛跟地方共同調整分擔的比例\n\n08:23.689 --> 08:52.742\n要嘛就要延長整個工程進行的時間這個會對地方造成很大的影響是沒有錯但是我們還是在盡量的用最精密的一個算法來把這個傷害把它縮到最小讓各地方所影響能夠稍微平均一點比較財政好的地方希望他們自己獨立自主多一點財政差的地方中央資助更多的像我們現在已經把台灣分做五個等級的財政級距\n\n08:53.502 --> 09:06.654\n那最第五級第四級的我們當然要給予更多的協助這樣才能把它拉平均衡台灣的軍事我想除了這個財政的一個劃分之外那我們也比較擔心就是\n\n09:07.522 --> 09:22.920\n過去市權分配的中央擁中央的權責地方政府有地方政府執行的量能但是隨著財化法調整之後我們過去財化法我們一直在討論均衡的狀況\n\n09:24.361 --> 09:53.812\n那中央會不會因為這樣的一個重新調整了之後把很多的事權下放到地方但是相對性我跟我們原民會的主委一樣我們都來服務在屏東縣政府服務過我們都很清楚地方政府的這個人力也好這個整個量能也好真的有些事情是不見得能夠做得那麼如意啦一定需要中央大力來支持尤其這個整個這個重大建設也好還有甚至我這個前上一次我特別請院長要幫忙我們從上游中游下游\n\n09:54.272 --> 10:07.470\n整個治山防洪整個區域治理治水的一個計畫我們都需要整個一條邊的一個處理從中央跟地方大家來合作那是不是這個機制會因為明年的財化法重新調整過會有所影響\n\n10:08.456 --> 10:28.395\n其實要調整討論財化法之前應該跟地方制度的精神要一致屬於地方自治事項地方應辦事項要地方自己來承擔中央只是做財力的分佈上比較差的做協助所以剛剛有一個比例剛剛委員提到過去\n\n10:29.175 --> 10:44.782\n中央60%的財政地方40%但列裡面包括了11%的省政府當時省政府的業務現在都移撥給中央了但又把它回復做6比4之分就表示這11是前\n\n10:46.784 --> 11:04.786\n邊在地方事情邊在中央就失衡了但是我們現在衡量整個來看就像我們現在經濟部所提出的4年1000億的縣市館河川的改善計畫過去我們都做的是中央做的是中央館河川對縣市館河川其實是地方該做的\n\n11:05.447 --> 11:30.414\n但我們看到這樣解決不了問題很多末端跟源頭地方管的一些野溪、縣市管河川還是有問題所以我們還是願意編在編的過程如果中央真的在4年內要籌出1000億有困難我們還是要跟地方談也許我們有一個適當的比例地方也負擔一些中央也負擔一些用4年1000億把它源頭跟末端給它做好這樣才能共同解決問題\n\n11:31.754 --> 11:56.553\n萬一中央政府真的財政有困難不行這個事情也做不了我們還在做這樣的努力跟規劃我很贊成你的這個看法不過就是我也擔心這個在野黨能不能去真的支持這樣的一個立場然後甚至到時候在這個整個這個我們提出相關的案子的時候還會把你卡關了我也很擔心這個東西但是每個委員一聽到治水都說全力支持我也希望這是我們共同的信念\n\n11:57.988 --> 12:26.221\n我想院長最近一萬塊的事件甚至我看藍白提出軍人志願役的加急甚至針對禁法補償這一連串我想他們思考的當然是名為照顧我們鄉親但是我看到的是他們應該是行政策買標之實未來我們也擔心會不會一連串這樣的一個政策不斷地推出來\n\n12:27.040 --> 12:31.064\n企圖讓行政院要買單院長你擔心這樣的狀況嗎普發現金經過風災之後面對關稅的衝擊再經過大院很多朝委黨團各委員\n\n12:40.748 --> 13:04.276\n特別表示不同的聲音以及黨團的意見我們都聽到了我們也看到這個普發先進2350億的編列加到這個任性特別條例裡面來這原來對憲法局預算精神是完全違背的但是我們看到大家的聲音我們認為第一個如果因此而讓我們的產業支持的預算沒辦法通過\n\n13:05.316 --> 13:21.133\n照顧民生變化通過還有國土任性變化通過將是國家整個的停頓下來所以我們願意朝這個方向來調整所以我們提出了修正任性條例我也希望任性條例大家能夠平心靜氣合理的來談\n\n13:21.923 --> 13:51.563\n第一個解決了各項大家爭議的預算都能夠執行第二個化解了讓所有的憲政危機憲政秩序能夠恢復正常第三個時間上我們能夠盡快的來執行所有委員關心的問題以及國人所期待的在三個理由之下我懇請大院能夠將任性特別條例的修正考案能夠緊速的放入議程討論我們快快的邊依據來邊據邊立這個特別預算那就可以進一步來推動\n\n13:52.663 --> 14:20.671\n我想這是一個很好的開始希望能夠朝野來支持那針對明年度的總預算你會擔心明年的編列會出狀況嗎有今年的經驗我認為朝野各黨團在協商的過程一定會更精密一點行政院會主動涉入介入這個協商我們會主動涉入提出我們應該有的講法跟我們的期待以及兩院應該有的良性互動\n\n14:21.786 --> 14:47.242\n但是我也擔心這樣的能頭請骨的一個模式會歷史重演甚至在這個你準備要開始編列明年度的預算了災黨會端出什麼樣的菜要求行政院要買單我想院長跟團隊要做好準備在今年整個社會氛圍底下我們只有抱著樂觀跟期待才能往下走如果省運明年度的預算又重複今年的覆測\n\n14:48.336 --> 15:08.705\n那表示這個社會的進步有限表現人民的聲音還是沒有被強烈的傳達出來還有行政院一直希望依照憲法依照預算法這個最終極的目標還是沒有被尊重這絕非現在兩院互動應該有的模式院長我記得你前幾天有提出這個針對我們這個整個\n\n15:11.872 --> 15:33.428\n沿海地區跟地化地區一個電能地下化的一個概念要推動那因為我剛好昨天我從這個平和公路下到恆春也去看了幾個淹水的地方那沿路上我就想到我們蘇貞昌前院長這個也是他在任內的一個推動所以從去年的風災三坨到今年風災這個平和公路恆春半島都沒有發生停電的一個狀況好謝謝\n\n15:41.806 --> 15:41.826\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":17.054,"end":18.675,"text":"謝謝主席 有請卓院長麻煩請卓院長備選"},{"start":29.758,"end":53.348,"text":"徐文豪 院長好 院長辛苦大家辛苦 各位院長我想今天再度邀請您到立法院來做這個專案報告我想您應該是百感交集但是應該有萬般無奈因為也是要來面對這樣的一個困境極力說明清楚是是 那我想我們還是要回顧還原一下這個一年多來的狀況"},{"start":55.169,"end":82.87,"text":"我想這個院長上任之後我想立法院的狀況您也非常的清楚啦尤其這個我們國民黨跟民眾黨的立委殺紅了眼不管是在委員會也好甚至院會好像在那個砍預算比賽一樣這個國民黨砍完之後砍不夠民眾黨接著一直砍所以我想包含我們這個刪除的預算高達兩千零七十五億凍結預算也高達一千三百多億"},{"start":83.65,"end":93.401,"text":"都創下歷史的新高面對這樣一個困境甚至還要求行政院要自行刪減這個636億調整的部分我想面對這樣一個困境"},{"start":94.502,"end":119.943,"text":"放毒的也是他們現在該毒的還要叫你來解毒找解放我想對行政團隊非常的不公平但是我想這樣的一個狀況不僅我們的重大建設受到影響受困受難的也是我們的百姓我想針對這樣一個狀況屏東縣也是首當其衝在這邊我想我還是要跟幫我們屏東的鄉親甚至我們屏東努力的屏東縣政府來說幾句話所以院長"},{"start":122.545,"end":144.115,"text":"針對目前的這個狀況您自己有什麼樣的感想非常感謝委員的理解這個困難不僅在中央各部會我認為也會連續的影響到地方各種的這個補助環象但是所謂補助是當地方有重大建設或是財政力量比較差的我們與補助"},{"start":145.915,"end":168.425,"text":"從來沒有一個規定說補助要補助到百分之百或是補助到一個額度所以我們是濁於補助那在這個情況底下我們衡量中央政府的財政目前剛剛形容的水庫的水都被抽光了我們只有濁減地方的補助但對那些財政狀況較差的我們還是極力的讓他不要發生困難這個是最高原則"},{"start":169.708,"end":196.169,"text":"院長我想您也非常清楚這個六都跟非六都整個財政結構是相當的不同這些有的這個執政藍營的執政縣市得了便宜還賣乖甚至比院會還跟你槓上在講這些財化法我認為都非常非常的對我們行政團隊不公平像我們非六都來講這個我們原本的自由財源就少了尤其像屏東大家我們都是農業縣讓我們的工商業比較不發達"},{"start":198.271,"end":222.191,"text":"所以我們也很努力在爭取這個一般性補助跟計劃型的補助也是希望讓屏東能夠發展能夠讓這個各行各業都有一定的一個穩定的一個力量那面對這樣一個困境我想不只是這個這一次的預算屏東縣被砍了52億我想是這個首當其衝甚至我們也擔心明年的財化法我們也是非六都"},{"start":223.152,"end":244.435,"text":"受補助成長最少的一個縣市我想這樣子的一個衝擊對我們整個屏東縣的財政也好重大交通建設這個整個預算執行社會福利也好我們面臨很大的一個挑戰跟壓力院長我想您這段期間你也常常來屏東啦你也關心我們農業的一個狀況甚至我們工商業的一個發展"},{"start":244.875,"end":270.354,"text":"甚至你也主持了我們交通建設的一個勘察我想屏東一直在持續的向前推進當中也需要我們省政府大力的支持院長講過一句話只要機器行政年你就會支持這個地方政府我想這句話我們都放在心裡面都非常的感動院長這句話會不會因為目前的困境受到影響我是說支持中央政策的我們一定要跟他保持高度的合作"},{"start":271.021,"end":296.946,"text":"那對中央政策有不同意見的我們盡量去說服他們我今天就是用這樣的一個追加預算的方式來拜託請這個刪減預算之後造成困難讓大家了解請立法院能夠同意一起從中央政策共同來出發來協助地方那當中我想委員過去到現在我知道一直很支持中央的預算中央的政策各方面"},{"start":297.486,"end":324.21,"text":"那我們不需要花太多時間來討論我們只要花更多的時間討論說我們這些給地方的補助當中我們如何去執行就好所以分階段今天是希望說水回到大水庫那跟委員討論的是留給地方的水我們怎麼樣去到該有水的地方去這兩個層次是不一樣的我想面對一個認真的一個努力的一個縣市政府我想院長應該會大力來支持尤其過去"},{"start":325.27,"end":339.544,"text":"從我們潘孟安秘書長當任縣長到現在周村民縣長院長只要來到屏東看了屏東的現象應該都讓你驚豔啦我們用最少的預算但是我們做最大的一個效益我想這是人民有感的一個施政的一個成果"},{"start":339.864,"end":353.637,"text":"但是我也很無奈我們一律用25%的比例來篩檢也是很無奈這也表示說我們這個地方其實是放在同樣的天平上來看的只是說現在跟原來支持的我們是跟他討論說如何去執行"},{"start":355.399,"end":374.1,"text":"但現在請求更多的委員是希望能夠把中央的預算能夠補回來我們就能夠如數如期的來協助院長你現在提出了838億的一個案子嘛當然希望大家可以來集齊嘛因為尤其這個我想這個我們整個尤其屏東縣政府"},{"start":375.01,"end":402.867,"text":"一連串也提出了很多包含這個道路橋樑的一個改建包含校園環境的一個運動設施的改建甚至最重要你現在掃紙化我們針對公托的部分還有我們照顧老人家我們衛生所的改建計畫我們現在都還在我們相關的部會我們不希望因為預算的減少這些照顧百姓的一些政策受到影響我想也要麻煩院長給屏東最大力的支持院長這都不是很大的錢"},{"start":403.567,"end":415.212,"text":"但是對屏東市非常非常的重要但是我想當然大水庫裡面我們都支持但是應該要針對足以需求的項目我們再來做盤點來給予最大最有力的一個支持好不好院長"},{"start":415.885,"end":433.745,"text":"是 我知道中央跟地方現在都陷入到這樣的困難那我們共同來解決所以行政院提出的這個解決的方法我一直想到這是現在唯一也是必須要做的那就能夠及時的來化解這樣的中央跟地方共同在財政在預算執行上面的困窘"},{"start":435.02,"end":462.372,"text":"所以院長我還是要提醒就是說這個我們賴總統講的嘛這個我們均衡台灣的一個理念過去我們希望把這個重北青南不均衡的狀況要有所調整但是我也擔心目前依藍白阿拔的這個態度他們現在予取予求什麼都是他們要分好的我們這個非六都這個比較偏遠的地方我們就只能大概去分一些比較不重要的東西我覺得這對我們是"},{"start":463.905,"end":487.473,"text":"不盡公平也情何以堪尤其我們也擔心未來會不會因為這樣子又走回重北侵染的一個狀況軍人台灣一直是總統要求行政院全力去執行的現在包括我們想追加的這筆追加預算以及明年中央政府總預算我們在非常受到嚴控的"},{"start":488.871,"end":502.418,"text":"原則底下因為真的是財政收入發放法拿掉中央太多的錢我們很多項目都無法由中央單獨來負擔我們要嘛跟地方共同調整分擔的比例"},{"start":503.689,"end":532.742,"text":"要嘛就要延長整個工程進行的時間這個會對地方造成很大的影響是沒有錯但是我們還是在盡量的用最精密的一個算法來把這個傷害把它縮到最小讓各地方所影響能夠稍微平均一點比較財政好的地方希望他們自己獨立自主多一點財政差的地方中央資助更多的像我們現在已經把台灣分做五個等級的財政級距"},{"start":533.502,"end":546.654,"text":"那最第五級第四級的我們當然要給予更多的協助這樣才能把它拉平均衡台灣的軍事我想除了這個財政的一個劃分之外那我們也比較擔心就是"},{"start":547.522,"end":562.92,"text":"過去市權分配的中央擁中央的權責地方政府有地方政府執行的量能但是隨著財化法調整之後我們過去財化法我們一直在討論均衡的狀況"},{"start":564.361,"end":593.812,"text":"那中央會不會因為這樣的一個重新調整了之後把很多的事權下放到地方但是相對性我跟我們原民會的主委一樣我們都來服務在屏東縣政府服務過我們都很清楚地方政府的這個人力也好這個整個量能也好真的有些事情是不見得能夠做得那麼如意啦一定需要中央大力來支持尤其這個整個這個重大建設也好還有甚至我這個前上一次我特別請院長要幫忙我們從上游中游下游"},{"start":594.272,"end":607.47,"text":"整個治山防洪整個區域治理治水的一個計畫我們都需要整個一條邊的一個處理從中央跟地方大家來合作那是不是這個機制會因為明年的財化法重新調整過會有所影響"},{"start":608.456,"end":628.395,"text":"其實要調整討論財化法之前應該跟地方制度的精神要一致屬於地方自治事項地方應辦事項要地方自己來承擔中央只是做財力的分佈上比較差的做協助所以剛剛有一個比例剛剛委員提到過去"},{"start":629.175,"end":644.782,"text":"中央60%的財政 地方40%但列裡面包括了11%的省政府當時省政府的業務現在都移撥給中央了但又把它回復做6比4之分就表示這11是前"},{"start":646.784,"end":664.786,"text":"邊在地方 事情邊在中央就失衡了但是我們現在衡量整個來看就像我們現在經濟部所提出的4年1000億的縣市館河川的改善計畫過去我們都做的是中央做的是中央館河川對縣市館河川其實是地方該做的"},{"start":665.447,"end":690.414,"text":"但我們看到這樣解決不了問題很多末端跟源頭地方管的一些野溪、縣市管河川還是有問題所以我們還是願意編在編的過程如果中央真的在4年內要籌出1000億有困難我們還是要跟地方談也許我們有一個適當的比例地方也負擔一些 中央也負擔一些用4年1000億把它源頭跟末端給它做好這樣才能共同解決問題"},{"start":691.754,"end":716.553,"text":"萬一中央政府真的財政有困難不行這個事情也做不了我們還在做這樣的努力跟規劃我很贊成你的這個看法不過就是我也擔心這個在野黨能不能去真的支持這樣的一個立場然後甚至到時候在這個整個這個我們提出相關的案子的時候還會把你卡關了我也很擔心這個東西但是每個委員一聽到治水都說全力支持我也希望這是我們共同的信念"},{"start":717.988,"end":746.221,"text":"我想院長最近一萬塊的事件甚至我看藍白提出軍人志願役的加急甚至針對禁法補償這一連串我想他們思考的當然是名為照顧我們鄉親但是我看到的是他們應該是行政策買標之實未來我們也擔心會不會一連串這樣的一個政策不斷地推出來"},{"start":747.04,"end":751.064,"text":"企圖讓行政院要買單院長 你擔心這樣的狀況嗎普發現金經過風災之後面對關稅的衝擊再經過大院很多朝委黨團各委員"},{"start":760.748,"end":784.276,"text":"特別表示不同的聲音以及黨團的意見我們都聽到了我們也看到這個普發先進2350億的編列加到這個任性特別條例裡面來這原來對憲法局預算精神是完全違背的但是我們看到大家的聲音我們認為第一個如果因此而讓我們的產業支持的預算沒辦法通過"},{"start":785.316,"end":801.133,"text":"照顧民生變化通過還有國土任性變化通過將是國家整個的停頓下來所以我們願意朝這個方向來調整所以我們提出了修正任性條例我也希望任性條例大家能夠平心靜氣合理的來談"},{"start":801.923,"end":831.563,"text":"第一個解決了各項大家爭議的預算都能夠執行第二個化解了讓所有的憲政危機憲政秩序能夠恢復正常第三個時間上我們能夠盡快的來執行所有委員關心的問題以及國人所期待的在三個理由之下我懇請大院能夠將任性特別條例的修正考案能夠緊速的放入議程討論我們快快的邊依據來邊據邊立這個特別預算那就可以進一步來推動"},{"start":832.663,"end":860.671,"text":"我想這是一個很好的開始希望能夠朝野來支持那針對明年度的總預算你會擔心明年的編列會出狀況嗎有今年的經驗我認為朝野各黨團在協商的過程一定會更精密一點行政院會主動涉入介入這個協商我們會主動涉入提出我們應該有的講法跟我們的期待以及兩院應該有的良性互動"},{"start":861.786,"end":887.242,"text":"但是我也擔心這樣的能頭請骨的一個模式會歷史重演甚至在這個你準備要開始編列明年度的預算了災黨會端出什麼樣的菜要求行政院要買單我想院長跟團隊要做好準備在今年整個社會氛圍底下我們只有抱著樂觀跟期待才能往下走如果省運明年度的預算又重複今年的覆測"},{"start":888.336,"end":908.705,"text":"那表示這個社會的進步有限表現人民的聲音還是沒有被強烈的傳達出來還有行政院一直希望依照憲法依照預算法這個最終極的目標還是沒有被尊重這絕非現在兩院互動應該有的模式院長我記得你前幾天有提出這個針對我們這個整個"},{"start":911.872,"end":933.428,"text":"沿海地區跟地化地區一個電能地下化的一個概念要推動那因為我剛好昨天我從這個平和公路下到恆春也去看了幾個淹水的地方那沿路上我就想到我們蘇貞昌前院長這個也是他在任內的一個推動所以從去年的風災三坨到今年風災這個平和公路恆春半島都沒有發生停電的一個狀況好謝謝"},{"start":941.806,"end":941.826,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":331,"blocks":[["徐委員富癸：（11時35分）謝謝主席，有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：徐委員好。"],["徐委員富癸：院長好，院長辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：大家辛苦了。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，今天再度邀請您到立法院來做這個專案報告，我想你應該是百感交集，但是應該也萬般無奈，因為也是要來面對這樣一個困境。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們極力說明清楚。"],["徐委員富癸：是。我們還是要回顧、還原一下一年多來的狀況，我想院長上任之後，立法院的狀況您也非常地清楚，尤其國民黨跟民眾黨的立委殺紅了眼，不管是在委員會也好，甚至院會，現在好像在砍預算比賽一樣，國民黨砍完之後砍不夠，民眾黨接著一直砍，所以刪除的預算高達2,075億，凍結的預算也高達一千三百多億，都創下歷史新高，甚至還要求行政院要自行刪減636億調整的部分，我想面對這樣一個困境，放毒的是他們，現在要解毒，還要叫你來解毒、找解方，我想對行政團隊非常不公平。這樣的狀況，不僅我們的重大建設受到影響，受難的也是我們的百姓，針對這樣的狀況，屏東縣也是首當其衝，在這邊我還是要幫我們屏東鄉親，甚至我們努力的屏東縣政府來說幾句話。院長，針對目前的狀況，您自己有什麼樣的感想？"],["卓院長榮泰：非常感謝委員的理解，這個困難不僅在中央各部會，我認為也會延續地影響到地方各種的補助款項，但是所謂的補助，是當地方有重大建設或是財政力量比較差的，我們予以補助，從來沒有一個規定是說補助要補助到百分之百或是補助到一個額度，所以我們是酌予補助，在這個情況底下，我們衡量中央政府的財政，就像我剛剛形容的，水庫的水都被抽光了，我們只有酌減地方的補助，但對於那些財政狀況較差的，我們還是極力讓它不要發生困難，這是最高原則。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，我想你也非常清楚六都跟非六都整個財政結構相當不同，藍營的執政縣市得了便宜還賣乖，甚至在院會還跟你槓上，在講財劃法的事，我認為對我們行政團隊都非常、非常地不公平；以我們非六都來講，我們原本的自有財源就少了，尤其像屏東，我們是農業縣，我們的工商業比較不發達，所以我們也很努力在爭取一般性補助跟計畫型補助，也是希望讓屏東能夠發展，能夠讓各行各業都有一定的穩定力量。","面對這樣一個困境，不只是這一次的預算屏東縣被砍了52億，首當其衝，甚至我們也擔心明年因應財劃法，我們也是非六都受補助成長最少的一個縣市，我想這樣的衝擊，對我們整個屏東縣的財政也好，以及重大交通建設、整個預算執行、社會福利也好，都面臨很大的挑戰跟壓力。院長，這段期間你也常常下來屏東，當然你也關心我們農漁業的狀況以及工商業的發展，甚至你也主持了我們交通建設的勘查，屏東一直在持續地向前推進當中，我想也需要行政院大力的支持。院長講過一句話：只要支持行政院的，你就會支持這個地方政府。這句話我們都放在心裡面、都非常感動，院長，這句話會不會因為目前的困境受到影響？"],["卓院長榮泰：我是說支持中央政策的，我們一定要跟他們保持高度的合作；對中央政策有不同意見的，我們儘量去說服他們。我今天就是用這樣一個追加預算的方式來拜託，刪減預算之後造成的困難讓大家了解，請立法院能夠同意一起從中央政策共同出發來協助地方。這當中，我知道委員過去到現在一直很支持中央的預算、中央的政策等各方面，我們不需要花太多的時間來討論，我們只要花更多的時間來討論這些給地方的補助要如何去執行就好，所以是分階段的，今天是希望水回到大水庫，而跟委員討論的是，留給地方的水，我們怎麼樣去到該有水的地方，這兩個層次是不一樣的。"],["徐委員富癸：是，面對一個認真努力的縣市政府，我想院長應該會大力支持的。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["徐委員富癸：尤其過去從潘孟安秘書長擔任縣長到現在的周春米縣長，院長只要來到屏東看到屏東的建設應該都讓你驚豔，我們用最少的預算，但是做最大的效益，我想這是人民有感的一個施政成果。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我也很無奈，一律用25%的比例來刪減也是很無奈，這也表示我們對地方其實是放在同樣的天平上來看，只是現在跟原來支持的，我們是跟他討論如何去執行，但現在請求更多委員的是希望能夠把中央的預算補回來，我們就能夠如速、如期地來協助。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，你現在提出了838億的案子……"],["卓院長榮泰：878。"],["徐委員富癸：當然是希望大家可以來支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["徐委員富癸：尤其屏東縣政府一連串也提出了很多，包含道路橋梁的改建、校園環境運動設施的改建，甚至最重要的是現在少子化，我們針對公托的部分，還有為了照顧老人家而有衛生所的改建計畫，現在都還在相關的部會，我們不希望因為預算的減少而讓這些照顧百姓的政策受到影響，我想也要麻煩院長給屏東最大力的支持。院長，這都不是很大筆的錢，但對屏東是非常非常的重要，當然大水庫裡面我們都支持，但是應該要針對逐一需求的項目再來做盤點，來給予最有力的支持，好不好？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，我想中央跟地方現在都陷入到這樣的困難，我們共同來解決，所以行政院提出的這個解決方法，我一直強調，這是現在唯一也是必須要做的，就能夠及時化解中央跟地方共同在財政、在預算執行上面的困窘。"],["徐委員富癸：對，院長，我還是要提醒，賴總統講均衡臺灣的理念，過去我們希望把重北輕南不均衡的狀況要有所調整，但我也擔心，目前依藍白鴨霸的態度，他們現在予取予求，什麼都是他們要分好的，非六都比較偏遠的地方大概就只能去分一些比較不重要的東西，我覺得這對我們是不盡公平也情何以堪，尤其我們也擔心未來會不會因為這樣子又走回重北輕南的一個狀況。"],["卓院長榮泰：均衡臺灣一直是總統要求行政院全力去執行的，現在包括我們想追加的這筆追加預算及明年中央政府總預算，我們在非常受到嚴控的原則底下，因為真的財政收支劃分法拿掉中央太多的錢，很多項目都無法由中央單獨來負擔，我們要嘛跟地方共同調整分擔的比例，要嘛就要延長整個工程進行的時間，這個會對地方造成很大的影響是沒有錯，但我們還是儘量用最精密的算法來把這個傷害縮到最小，讓各地方所受的影響能夠稍微平均一點，財政比較好的地方，希望他們自己獨立自主多一點；財政差的地方，中央資助更多的。像我們現在已經把臺灣分作五個等級的財政級距，對於第五級、第四級的，我們當然要給予更多的協助，這樣才能把它拉平，均衡臺灣的均勢。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，我想除了財政的劃分之外，我們也比較擔心過去事權的分配，中央有中央的權責，地方政府有地方政府執行的量能，但是隨著財劃法調整之後，我們過去也在財劃法一直在討論這樣一個均衡的狀況，中央會不會因為這樣的重新調整之後，把很多的事權下放到地方？但是相對的，我跟原民會的主委一樣，我們都在屏東縣政府服務過，我們都很清楚地方政府的人力也好，整個量能也好，真的有些事情不見得能夠做得那麼如意，一定需要中央大力來支持，尤其是重大建設，甚至我上一次還特別請院長幫忙，從上游、中游、下游的整個治山防洪，整個區域治理治水的計畫，都需要整個一條鞭來處理，從中央跟地方大家來合作，這個機制是不是會因為明年財劃法重新調整而有所影響？"],["卓院長榮泰：是的，其實要調整、討論財劃法之前，應該跟地方制度的精神要一致，屬於地方自治事項、地方應辦事項的部分，要地方自己來承擔，中央只是對財力分布上比較差的做協助。剛剛委員有提到一個比例，過去的財政分配比例中央是60%、地方40%，但那裡面包括了11%是省政府的部分，當時省政府的業務現在都移撥給中央了，但又把它回復做6比4之分，就表示這11%是錢編在地方，事情編在中央，就失衡了。但是我們現在衡量整個來看，就像現在經濟部所提出的4年1,000億的縣市管川改善計畫，過去中央做的是中央管河川，縣市管河川其實是地方該做的，但我們看到這樣解決不了問題，很多末端跟源頭，地方管的一些野溪、縣市管河川還是有問題，所以我們還是願意編，在編的過程如果中央真的在4年內要籌出1,000億有困難，我們還是要跟地方談，也許我們談一個適當的比例，地方負擔一些，中央也負擔一些，用4年1,000億把源頭跟末端做好，這樣才能共同解決問題。萬一中央政府真的財政有困難、不行，這個事情也做不了，我們還在做這樣的努力跟規劃。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，我很贊成你的看法，不過我也擔心在野黨能不能真的支持這樣的立場，甚至到時候在我們提出相關案子的時候會不會卡關？我也很擔心。"],["卓院長榮泰：但是每個委員一聽到治水都說全力支持，我也希望這是我們共同的信念。"],["徐委員富癸：好，院長，不管是最近1萬塊的事件，甚至是藍白提出軍人志願役的加給、禁伐補償，這一連串我想他們當然是名為照顧我們的鄉親，但是我看到的，他們應該是行政策買票之實，未來我們也擔心會不會這樣一連串的政策不斷地推出來，企圖讓行政院買單。院長，你擔心這樣的狀況嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：普發現金經過風災之後，面對關稅的衝擊，再經過大院很多朝野黨團各委員個別表示不同的聲音以及黨團的意見，我們都聽到了。我們也看到普發現金2,350億的編列加到韌性特別條例裡面來，這原來對憲法及預算的精神是完全違背的，但是我們都有聽到大家的聲音，我們認為：第一個，如果因此讓我們產業支持的預算沒有辦法通過，照顧民生的沒有辦法通過，還有國土韌性沒有辦法通過，這樣會讓國家整個停頓下來，所以我們願意朝這個方向來調整，提出了修正韌性特別條例，我也希望韌性特別條例大家能夠平心靜氣、合理地來談。第一個，解決了各項大家爭議的預算，都能夠執行。第二個，化解了所有的憲政危機，讓憲政秩序能夠回復正常。第三個，時間上我們能夠儘快地來執行所有委員關心的問題，以及國人所期待的。在這三個理由之下，我懇請大院能夠將韌性特別條例的修正草案儘速放入議程討論，我們快快地據此來編列特別預算，就可以儘速來推動。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，我想這是一個很好的開始，希望朝野能夠支持。針對今年度的總預算，你會擔心明年的編列會出狀況嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：有今年的經驗，我認為朝野各黨團在協商的過程一定會更精密一點，行政院會主動涉入、介入協商，我們會主動涉入，提出我們應該有的講法跟我們的期待，以及兩院應該有的良性互動。"],["徐委員富癸：但是我也擔心這樣軟土深掘的模式會歷史重演，甚至現在準備要開始編列明年度的預算了，在野黨會端出什麼樣的菜要求行政院要買單，我想院長跟團隊要做好準備啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：在今年整個社會氛圍底下，我們只有抱著樂觀跟期待才能往下走，如果審議明年度的預算又重蹈今年的覆轍，表示這個社會的進步有限，表示人民的聲音還是沒有被強烈的傳達出來，還有行政院一直希望依照憲法、依照預算法最終極的目標還是沒有被尊重，這絕非現在兩院互動應該有的模式。"],["徐委員富癸：院長，我記得你前幾天有提出針對我們整個沿海地區跟低窪地區電纜地下化的概念，馬上要推動，因為我剛好昨天從屏鵝公路下到恆春，也去看了幾個淹水的地方，沿路上我就想到我們蘇貞昌前院長，這個也是在他任內的推動。所以從去年的山陀兒風災到今年，屏鵝公路、恆春半島都沒有發生停電的狀況，我想這是一個好的政策，我們要支持台電來做處理……"],["卓院長榮泰：這是一個成功的典範，我們現在啟動全國的評估。"],["徐委員富癸：是，一定要加快進行，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝徐富癸委員質詢，謝謝卓院長備詢。","報告院會，現在在議場二樓旁聽來自日本自民黨青年局的朋友，我們掌聲歡迎。","接下來我們請今天上午最後一位登記發言的楊瓊瓔委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":292,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-25","speakers":["韓國瑜","陳昭姿","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","黃國昌","徐富癸","楊瓊瓔","鍾佳濱","王鴻薇","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","邱鎮軍","陳亭妃","盧縣一","徐欣瑩","許宇甄","張雅琳","賴惠員","王正旭","羅智強","陳培瑜","賴士葆"],"page_start":213,"meetingDate":["2025-08-19"],"gazette_id":"1147101","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147101_00004","1147101_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第25次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「全額撥付114年度對地方政府之一般性補助款及原住民族地區基本設施維持費\n等相關事宜」專案報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147101_00005"}}}