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\"時\"}, {\"word\": \"通\", \"start\": 81.328, \"end\": 81.568, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"知\", \"start\": 81.568, \"end\": 81.968, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"廠\"}, {\"word\": \"商\", \"start\": 81.968, \"end\": 82.228, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"履\", \"start\": 82.228, \"end\": 83.168, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 83.168, \"end\": 84.269, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"採\"}, {\"word\": \"購\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 84.269, \"end\": 84.429, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 84.429, \"end\": 84.549, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 84.549, \"end\": 84.869, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 84.869, \"end\": 85.029, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"信\", \"start\": 85.029, \"end\": 85.529, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 85.529, \"end\": 85.629, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 85.629, \"end\": 85.749, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 85.749, 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108.22, \"end\": 108.48, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 108.48, \"end\": 108.68, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"無\", \"start\": 108.68, \"end\": 108.9, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 108.9, \"end\": 109.1, \"score\": 0.978}, {\"word\": \"核\", \"start\": 109.1, \"end\": 109.501, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"驗\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 109.501, \"end\": 109.601, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 109.601, \"end\": 109.621, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"況\"}]}, {\"start\": 110.481, \"end\": 129.439, \"text\": \"那我想這也都是審計部年度報告跟救安基金專門審計報告一而再再而三點出來的內容包含之前有提到淨什麼前進的光相關的音樂會濫用的部分所以我想要請問一下部長這個媒體宣傳的經費跟使用方式是不是由部本部統籌是嗎\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 110.481, \"end\": 110.601, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 110.601, \"end\": 110.681, \"score\": 0.826}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 110.681, \"end\": 111.042, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 111.042, \"end\": 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118.789, \"end\": 118.909, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 118.909, \"end\": 119.069, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 119.069, \"end\": 119.189, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 119.189, \"end\": 119.329, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 119.329, \"end\": 119.99, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"淨\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 119.99, \"end\": 120.511, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 120.511, \"end\": 120.911, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 120.911, \"end\": 121.071, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"光\", \"start\": 121.071, \"end\": 121.852, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 121.852, \"end\": 122.212, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 122.212, \"end\": 122.312, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"音\", \"start\": 122.312, \"end\": 122.893, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"樂\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": 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\"個\"}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 126.116, \"end\": 126.556, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"宣\", \"start\": 126.556, \"end\": 126.897, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"傳\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 126.897, \"end\": 127.337, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"費\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 127.337, \"end\": 127.557, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 127.557, \"end\": 127.697, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 127.697, \"end\": 127.978, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 127.978, \"end\": 128.198, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"式\", \"start\": 128.198, \"end\": 128.378, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 128.378, \"end\": 128.478, \"score\": 0.897}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 128.478, \"end\": 128.558, \"score\": 0.638}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 128.558, \"end\": 128.718, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"由\", \"start\": 128.718, \"end\": 128.939, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 128.939, \"end\": 129.119, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 129.119, \"end\": 129.299, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 129.299, \"end\": 129.419, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"統\"}, {\"word\": \"籌\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 129.419, \"end\": 129.439, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}]}, {\"start\": 131.821, \"end\": 148.664, \"text\": \"先跟廖委員說明第一個我並不是問A答B因為就像委員看到當天的媒體的下標左邊這個標所以因為這個媒體的標題很多人在讀到這個標的時候都來問我們 都來問勞動部為什麼勞動部補助零日工級\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"先\", \"start\": 131.821, \"end\": 133.223, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 133.223, \"end\": 133.464, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"廖\", \"start\": 133.464, \"end\": 133.604, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 133.604, \"end\": 133.964, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"明\", \"start\": 133.964, \"end\": 135.206, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 135.206, \"end\": 135.306, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", 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\"start\": 138.19, \"end\": 138.57, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"天\", \"start\": 138.57, \"end\": 138.891, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 138.891, \"end\": 139.231, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 139.231, \"end\": 139.532, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 139.532, \"end\": 139.672, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 139.672, \"end\": 141.014, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"左\", \"start\": 141.014, \"end\": 142.195, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 142.195, \"end\": 142.295, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 142.295, \"end\": 142.355, \"score\": 0.661}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 142.355, \"end\": 142.756, \"score\": 0.851}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"媒\", \"start\": 142.756, \"end\": 143.237, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"體\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 143.237, \"end\": 143.357, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 143.357, \"end\": 143.597, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 143.597, \"end\": 143.797, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 143.797, \"end\": 143.978, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 143.978, \"end\": 144.378, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"讀\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 144.378, \"end\": 145.019, \"score\": 0.961}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 145.019, \"end\": 145.119, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 145.119, \"end\": 145.299, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 145.299, \"end\": 145.74, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 145.74, \"end\": 146.0, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 146.0, \"end\": 146.681, \"score\": 0.877}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 146.681, \"end\": 147.322, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 147.322, \"end\": 147.843, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 147.843, \"end\": 148.163, \"score\": 0.879}, {\"word\": \"補\"}, {\"word\": \"助\", \"start\": 148.163, \"end\": 148.323, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"零\", \"start\": 148.323, \"end\": 148.484, \"score\": 0.88}, {\"word\": \"日\", \"start\": 148.484, \"end\": 148.644, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"工\", \"start\": 148.644, \"end\": 148.664, \"score\": 0.015}, {\"word\": \"級\"}]}, {\"start\": 149.605, \"end\": 151.929, \"text\": \"很多人來問我們這個問題但是這個標讓很多人在讀起來的時候都來問我們說為什麼所以我們才要說勞動部沒有補助臨時工級因為當天真的很多人來問我們這個問題所以我才要講這是第一點\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 149.605, \"end\": 149.745, \"score\": 0.642}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 149.745, \"end\": 150.146, \"score\": 0.816}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 150.146, \"end\": 150.206, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 150.206, \"end\": 150.226, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 150.226, \"end\": 150.246, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 150.246, \"end\": 150.346, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"標\"}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 150.346, \"end\": 150.366, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 150.366, \"end\": 150.386, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 150.386, \"end\": 150.406, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 150.406, \"end\": 150.426, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"讀\"}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 150.426, \"end\": 150.507, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 150.507, \"end\": 150.527, \"score\": 0.002}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 150.527, \"end\": 150.547, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 150.547, \"end\": 150.567, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 150.567, \"end\": 150.587, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 150.587, \"end\": 150.647, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 150.647, \"end\": 150.667, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 150.667, \"end\": 150.687, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 150.687, \"end\": 150.707, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"才\", \"start\": 150.707, \"end\": 150.787, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 150.787, \"end\": 150.867, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"勞\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 150.867, \"end\": 150.887, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"沒\", 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{\"word\": \"庭\", \"start\": 751.658, \"end\": 752.539, \"score\": 0.964}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 752.539, \"end\": 752.719, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 752.719, \"end\": 752.839, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 752.839, \"end\": 752.98, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 752.98, \"end\": 753.28, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 753.28, \"end\": 753.46, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 753.46, \"end\": 753.62, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 753.62, \"end\": 754.221, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 754.221, \"end\": 754.361, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 754.361, \"end\": 755.021, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"週\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 755.021, \"end\": 755.202, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 755.202, \"end\": 755.342, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 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\"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"底\", \"start\": 758.865, \"end\": 758.945, \"score\": 0.764}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 758.945, \"end\": 759.085, \"score\": 0.918}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 759.085, \"end\": 759.225, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"少\", \"start\": 759.225, \"end\": 759.365, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 759.365, \"end\": 759.486, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 759.486, \"end\": 759.506, \"score\": 0.407}, {\"word\": \"請\"}]}, {\"start\": 760.667, \"end\": 776.767, \"text\": \"我們現在看到的數據 第一週確實是比較少那第二週就是第一週的兩倍 比較少是多少應該是四百多 四百多四五百 四五百 四百多 四五百然後第二週是 以前就是第一週的兩倍那我想要請 所以到八月十七為止總共是多少現在是1450左右 1450\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 760.667, \"end\": 760.867, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 760.867, \"end\": 761.087, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 761.087, \"end\": 761.228, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 761.228, \"end\": 761.368, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"週\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 772.602, \"end\": 772.702, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"倍\", \"start\": 772.702, \"end\": 772.942, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 772.942, \"end\": 773.082, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 773.082, \"end\": 773.163, \"score\": 0.727}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 773.163, \"end\": 773.283, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 773.283, \"end\": 773.383, \"score\": 0.769}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 773.383, \"end\": 773.623, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 773.623, \"end\": 773.924, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 773.924, \"end\": 774.204, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"八\", \"start\": 774.204, \"end\": 774.344, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 774.344, \"end\": 774.464, \"score\": 0.845}, {\"word\": \"十\", \"start\": 774.464, \"end\": 774.644, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"七\", \"start\": 774.644, 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\"end\": 805.238, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"患\", \"start\": 805.238, \"end\": 805.498, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"者\", \"start\": 805.498, \"end\": 805.518, \"score\": 0.999}]}, {\"start\": 806.218, \"end\": 809.934, \"text\": \"就是可以符合申請條件的目前有申請並通過的又是幾件\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 806.218, \"end\": 806.299, \"score\": 0.786}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 806.299, \"end\": 806.58, \"score\": 0.948}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 806.58, \"end\": 806.7, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 806.7, \"end\": 806.921, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"符\", \"start\": 806.921, \"end\": 807.042, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 807.042, \"end\": 807.162, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"申\", \"start\": 807.162, \"end\": 807.665, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"件\", \"start\": 807.665, \"end\": 807.805, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 807.805, \"end\": 807.986, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"目\", 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\"目前也有人說地方上就是說你有資格申請但是在申請程序上你剛說前面先7天登記嘛在這個國內的求財7天先求財7天沒有然後才會去進一步的審查對不對然後在審查上面審查會上面審查員這個是這個民眾地方民眾的反應就是說也有可能會有技術性的阻擋不會\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"目\", \"start\": 861.738, \"end\": 861.938, \"score\": 0.965}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 861.938, \"end\": 862.158, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 862.158, \"end\": 862.299, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 862.299, \"end\": 862.379, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 862.379, \"end\": 863.44, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"地\", \"start\": 863.44, \"end\": 863.58, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"方\", \"start\": 863.58, \"end\": 863.76, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 863.76, \"end\": 863.94, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 863.94, \"end\": 864.04, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 864.04, \"end\": 864.301, \"score\": 0.847}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"你\", \"start\": 864.301, \"end\": 864.421, \"score\": 0.973}, {\"word\": \"有\", 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\"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:08,619 --> 00:00:25,301\n謝謝主席有請洪部長請洪部長六點早部長早部長我想要先針對今天主要兩個大題那第一題呢我想要先針對救安基金\n\n2\n00:00:26,178 --> 00:00:47,734\n那救安基金被披露2022年到2024年之間補助電視劇零日攻擊導演的羅景仁團隊獲得救安基金2872萬元的補助那我要先講這個前幾天有這個新聞出來說勞動部好像是問A答B你說你們沒有補助這個零日攻擊但是其實他們在講就是說補助這個團隊\n\n3\n00:00:49,215 --> 00:00:58,748\n好那這個部分還是用開口契約來發包所以要請部長注意我剛剛講過我們不是說針對補助臨日公集這個隱疾而是針對\n\n4\n00:01:00,339 --> 00:01:28,611\n救安基金來補助這個羅導演拍勞動部影片的部分在程序上提出很嚴正的質疑開口契約就台北市政府訂定的這個採購注意事項解釋是用於契約所列的履約期間數量不定由機關依實際需要隨時通知廠商履約的採購那我想相信不管是中央或地方這個大概都是類似的概念和規定\n\n5\n00:01:29,651 --> 00:01:49,621\n所以換句話說這是一個可以依照政府機關自身的需求做出彈性的採購但是針對於得標廠商而言他是不用列出相關的計劃內容或者成效目標的空白支票那最終也可能導致行政機關勞動部驗收的時候無法核驗的情況\n\n6\n00:01:50,481 --> 00:02:09,439\n那我想這也都是審計部年度報告跟救安基金專門審計報告一而再再而三點出來的內容包含之前有提到淨什麼前進的光相關的音樂會濫用的部分所以我想要請問一下部長這個媒體宣傳的經費跟使用方式是不是由部本部統籌是嗎\n\n7\n00:02:11,821 --> 00:02:28,664\n先跟廖委員說明第一個我並不是問A答B因為就像委員看到當天的媒體的下標左邊這個標所以因為這個媒體的標題很多人在讀到這個標的時候都來問我們都來問勞動部為什麼勞動部補助零日工級\n\n8\n00:02:29,605 --> 00:02:31,929\n很多人來問我們這個問題但是這個標讓很多人在讀起來的時候都來問我們說為什麼所以我們才要說勞動部沒有補助臨時工級因為當天真的很多人來問我們這個問題所以我才要講這是第一點\n\n9\n00:02:44,967 --> 00:03:06,829\n那第二點剛剛委員在問到開口契約的問題的時候的確我們後來在去年底做了開口契約的部長我想先請問第一個問題我剛說是不是這個沒宣的費用和經費和使用都是有不本不統籌是吧那我想要先再問一下那當初這個是誰當初是不本不統籌對那是誰簽准同意這個開口合約的方式針對這個案子\n\n10\n00:03:10,305 --> 00:03:37,193\n我想我還是必須說就是針對當初的這個開口契約的使用那我們其實在去年年底我們就做出了檢討部長你先回答我嘛當初這個這個導演他相關的案子他的開口合約和這樣子的媒體採購媒宣採購的部分是誰同意使用這個開口合約方式我現在手上可能沒有這個資料你沒有但你知道嗎我現在手上沒有這個資料那你們知道嗎你們有去調查嗎\n\n11\n00:03:38,547 --> 00:03:53,917\n有嗎我跟委員說明現在這些相關的救安基金的案子你先不要用說在檢調那裡因為看起來你們也搞不清楚狀況我只是想問說因為剛剛部長也有說你們有這個要做懲處啊或是內部要去做檢調那到底是誰你們知道嗎\n\n12\n00:03:55,098 --> 00:04:14,718\n不知道的話怎麼懲處怎麼去做我們做了檢討了檢討你是叫制度面嘛我們對於接下來開口契約的使用方式包括適用的範圍我們做出了檢討我們認為比方說像是一些影片我們就認為不太適合再放在這個政策宣導的開口契約裡面\n\n13\n00:04:15,879 --> 00:04:38,590\n除了影片之外的沒選咧還是有很多開口紀約嗎除了影片我們認為一些影片包括一些活動的辦理不適合放在開口紀約部長因為你還是沒有回答我問題好我再問下一題我等一下再回來問你這一題純粹看補助的成效其實也非常的糟糕在2022年的時候拍攝勞動節主題影片製作阿仿洗衣店他單支影片補助是1069就是1069萬按讚數僅488\n\n14\n00:04:44,153 --> 00:05:04,772\n那2023年呢這個羅導演又接續接了勞動節的主題影片紙紮片補助971萬元按讚數是1761那2024年呢又補助了又拍攝了第三支影片勞動萬歲搬家片花了831萬按讚數只有202個\n\n15\n00:05:08,695 --> 00:05:20,593\n那平均一個站最便宜是6000塊最貴4.1萬我想這樣的成果是民眾百姓是看不下去的是沒辦法看下去這也是為什麼我們要去\n\n16\n00:05:21,670 --> 00:05:44,058\n看緊荷包所以包含部長這個羅導演在臉書說他拍攝超過1500隻廣告客戶來自全球世界各地是純粹的商業廣告導演許多的作品在好像各地都有獲獎那我想要問請問為什麼拍出的成果這麼糟糕那只有幾種可能嗎第一個\n\n17\n00:05:44,918 --> 00:06:02,085\n拍攝的成品有問題商業案他所謂號稱優秀的導演那面對公部門的標案是不是隨便亂做這是第一個可能第二可能勞動部在驗收的時候放水成品有瑕疵卻不知道第三個可能是成品好可能很優秀但勞動部拿到成品後卻不積極宣傳\n\n18\n00:06:03,866 --> 00:06:26,363\n那我想不管是哪一種都是讓人沒有辦法接受的所以部長我想問到底是哪一個單位負責驗收然後驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會成效這麼差成效這麼差你可以看到成效這麼糟糕這麼糟糕的成效為什麼可以連續三年拿到標案跟委員說明\n\n19\n00:06:27,335 --> 00:06:49,529\n第一個這個成效有點難只看一個單一的平台上面這些按讚數單一平台嗎那如果所有平台加起來多少我先跟委員說明這三支這三支影片都有獲得4A的創意獎其中一支甚至還入圍這個坎城創意獎我想這入圍這些獎項跟得這個獎都不是容易的事情這三支影片\n\n20\n00:06:49,949 --> 00:07:07,055\n所以你覺得是重點是在於宣傳還是是我要跟委員說的是說第一個這並不是三支很糟糕的影片不是像委員剛才口中說很糟糕的影片我說成效啊他得到很多的獎項那其實他的品質也是好的\n\n21\n00:07:07,526 --> 00:07:35,091\n那就成效或者是點閱數來說的話也不能只是看單一一個平台也包括他脫波的次數都包括在這裡面所以我要跟文說明說當然這個這位導演他在廣告界有他素有聲譽的地方來部長我跟你說第一個我剛有說成果很差有三種可能我也不是完全就是說這個得獎還是怎麼樣的成效\n\n22\n00:07:35,791 --> 00:08:01,887\n我是問說他的這個宣傳的成果是很差的不然你當初你拍這個片不是重點就是要宣傳嗎好那成果差我剛有說三種可能一個成品有問題會不會是優秀導演他做出來成品沒問題那你說成品沒問題成品沒問題那是不是你驗收的時候是怎麼驗收的是不是有放水還是說成品很優秀你沒有好好的經營沒有好好的宣傳所以我的問題是部長是哪一個單位驗收\n\n23\n00:08:02,307 --> 00:08:27,560\n那驗收的報告包含你剛剛說的不只是網路的成果還有包含脫波這些相關的成效我想問說驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會我想我們其實之前在我們包括審計的一些報告我們其實都有提供給都有提供給立法院的然後再來剛剛說為什麼連續三年度還可以拿到開口契約然後我想就我所知因為當時不是我主政\n\n24\n00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:47,765\n就我所知是因為這位導演第一個他真的在廣告界裡面素有聲譽而且他的拍攝的成果的品質都做到很多的好評就我知道是這樣所以因為這樣子那所以只要說他素有聲譽他來拍就可以輕鬆得標是這樣子嗎我不知道\n\n25\n00:08:48,525 --> 00:09:17,055\n那所以我想要問的就是我不知道什麼輕不輕鬆但是就我知道之所以他拿到所以部長我想請問一下他的確是業界非常非常知名而且他的工作的成果也很好的這個部長我還是想要回到剛剛講的那到底是誰簽合的你們到底部內知不知道然後當初你們簽的剛剛前面委員也有講到他本來應該要履約的是35部影片兩場記者會但是最後呢只有一部影片一場記者會\n\n26\n00:09:17,995 --> 00:09:41,287\n那這個部分到底是誰驗收所以第一個問題各位說明其實現在有點誤會35市那個市並不是指一市就是一部影片不是這個意思你可以看很多的開口卻並不是市代表的是一個計價單位那是多少一個計價單位大概是19萬多吧大概19萬4千多等一下部長那我還是你回到我的問題喔\n\n27\n00:09:42,847 --> 00:09:58,637\n這個細節我剛才不是問你說一試多少我是要問說那是誰驗收的因為你剛才說35部影片那不是35部影片35試那我想請問到底是誰驗收所以你認為他得到這些金額他目前繳交的成果是完全合理的跟委員說明我們正是\n\n28\n00:09:59,957 --> 00:10:23,438\n那為什麼你剛剛又要說你們有回去要懲處相關的在前面的委員在問的時候我跟廖委員說明我是說你剛才問我說這個導演這個導演他真的在業界是素有聲譽的那他拍出來的這三支影片的確也得獎很多這是事實他的確得獎很多但是這個開口契約在執行面的做法我們認為我到部裡面以後\n\n29\n00:10:24,406 --> 00:10:52,640\n我認為是可以有更好的執行的方式的那請問是誰去簽的是誰核准這個開口契約那你什麼時候可以給本席辦公室跟委員會我們可能回去來看一下相關的資料但是我要說的事情是說我們其實已經把相關的開口契約停下來檢討了所以我再進來問一下請問部長現在還有其他的沒選是用開口契約的嗎今年是沒有了沒有了你剛剛是說年初還有你是先暫停\n\n30\n00:10:53,900 --> 00:11:16,175\n我去年底去年底在114年的開口契約的標案我就把它給廢標停下來到現在都還是停的我們都停下來檢討了所以這個部分現在都不會再用開口契約嗎不是我講的不是未來不會是我們在檢討在美宣上面還需要嗎讓我說明我們認為在開口契約的使用上面\n\n31\n00:11:17,156 --> 00:11:32,598\n未來可能不適合再把影片或者是活動放到因為影片跟活動其實他比較沒有一個公定的價格所以可能會造成大家比較多在理解上面或者是包括在驗收上面比較就像審計部說的那樣\n\n32\n00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:51,193\n所以這是為什麼我們做出檢討以後我們就把標案給停下來那我們未來接下來就算要用開口契約也會把這幾個項目從開口契約的範圍拿出來我認為這樣子的情況是非常的有疑義的這中間到底有沒有圖利問題是不是應該要請部長請政風移送檢調進行刑事調查\n\n33\n00:11:52,654 --> 00:12:14,963\n跟文說明現在這個我們在救安基金的支用的問題上面其實檢調都一直是有立案在調查所以有包含這個案子嗎是也有全部的資料全部都有配合檢調調查是好那到時候再把剛剛我們我剛剛本席提的就是說到底是誰核准這些開口契約用這種沒沒宣的費用的方式到時候給本席和委員會辦個報告好不好我們回去\n\n34\n00:12:15,063 --> 00:12:39,506\n再看一下相關的事再來就是這個開口契約使用我們是徹底的檢討中的再來再問一下接下來是針對我們今天的主題巴士量表針對這個部分當初勞動部一直在修法前到現在都說會有10萬的人申請會衝擊重症家庭那我想要請問一下部長第一週到底是申請的多少人那到8月17日截止到底有多少人申請\n\n35\n00:12:40,667 --> 00:12:56,767\n我們現在看到的數據第一週確實是比較少那第二週就是第一週的兩倍比較少是多少應該是四百多四百多四五百四五百四百多四五百然後第二週是以前就是第一週的兩倍那我想要請所以到八月十七為止總共是多少現在是1450左右1450\n\n36\n00:12:59,190 --> 00:13:25,518\n那所以兩週下來大約1450一個月大約是可能不到3000件2800件2900件左右那我會說現在啦我會說目前這樣推估我當然知道接下來你很難預估未來的狀況我們現在比較難急下去預估未來一定他的趨勢的走向那我想要請教一下因為確實這個趨勢在12週來說是上升的那80歲以上跟70歲以上的這個癌症患者\n\n37\n00:13:26,218 --> 00:13:29,934\n就是可以符合申請條件的目前有申請並通過的又是幾件\n\n38\n00:13:32,626 --> 00:13:56,207\n時間點都還沒有辦法他現在都還在求財登記的階段他現在是在求財接濟後面才會取得這個求財的證明那後面才是招募許可所以部長其實我想要講的事情是其實今天的報告你完全沒有提到這些相關的數字喔今天你們提供的報告只有在質詢的時候你才把剛剛的數字講出來所以我希望這個部分應該是要用\n\n39\n00:13:57,128 --> 00:14:20,303\n科學務實理性的方式去看數字的變化而不是一直喊這種狼來了喔有10萬多人過去立法就是用這種政治性的語言我覺得現在既然政策要上路了我們就是務實的面對所以第一週你說400多人第二週是1000人所以總共目前為止17號其實17號是1450人喔那我想要講的事情是其實在實務上喔\n\n40\n00:14:21,738 --> 00:14:44,440\n目前也有人說地方上就是說你有資格申請但是在申請程序上你剛說前面先7天登記嘛在這個國內的求財7天先求財7天沒有然後才會去進一步的審查對不對然後在審查上面審查會上面審查員這個是這個民眾地方民眾的反應就是說也有可能會有技術性的阻擋不會\n\n41\n00:14:45,501 --> 00:15:03,135\n不會所以就是只要過了就會重開我跟委員說明其實對於輕症的來說就是按照過去過去怎麼做現在就怎麼做輕症的部分我們做的是把重症做優先可是我們不會去阻擋也不會去卡輕症的好那我想要說的是包含台南的就業服務工會的這個理事長\n\n42\n00:15:03,996 --> 00:15:18,942\n他是有提到在報道上面有提到他就說假設第一年這個其實只有申請他說以目前他們的推估這是業界的推估不是我的推估他說以目前這樣看起來前面的這些數字第一年可能申請的就是2萬到3萬人\n\n43\n00:15:20,563 --> 00:15:40,699\n那本席是想問說那具體而言這部分補得足嗎然後再來是因為本來年初通過這個法案你有大概7個月的準備期嗎那這個部分你們究竟成果如何因為你擔心是來源不足或是移工看護的量能不足那你也多了7個月的時間我想請問你補得上這個\n\n44\n00:15:42,185 --> 00:16:08,076\n目前的進度是怎麼樣跟文說明在去年底通過然後1月20號總統公告後我們馬上就找四個移工的來源國在商議要增加這個引進的量我們馬上就跟他們討論了部長我不是要問你過程我想問結果就是說成果是什麼因為當初一通過你說需要給勞動部時間去消化嘛\n\n45\n00:16:08,536 --> 00:16:35,475\n那我只是想問說因為你看我們8月1號上路目前為止是1450好那我們假設預估啦假設預估用所謂業界的標準來看假設一年是兩到三萬人那想要請問這個部分勞動部準備的怎麼樣過去七個月成果如何然後未來是不是可以就是這個來源訓練因為你剛剛有說其實你剛剛部長也有說到目前的來源國他可能是也有也有足夠的量可是你也要兼顧訓練的品質嘛對不對\n\n46\n00:16:38,077 --> 00:17:01,174\n所以看起來我都不敢用足夠這兩個字但我們會盡量的跟他協商增加所以沒有換言之其實重點問題到底在哪是不是訓練的量能是嗎我跟委員說明其實這七個月左右的時間我們做了幾件事情第一個剛才跟來源母國來協商增加第二個我們也建立了輕重分流重症優先的\n\n47\n00:17:03,481 --> 00:17:20,283\n這個機制審查流程這跟很謝謝衛福部一起協助第三個我把讓委員讓我說我們也擴編了預算包括擴編了人力來補充包括這個照管中心他可能所需要的人力包括我們自己需要審案件的人力\n\n48\n00:17:21,044 --> 00:17:46,255\n所以經費跟人力我們也增加了這都是7個月左右的時間我們的配套包括這些人力也還要訓練喔這些增加的人力都還要訓練這就是在這7個月裡面我們在進行的事情部長好那我在這裡說謝謝感謝勞動部的所有同仁這個大家辛苦了那也感謝大家因為其實這個是一個在民間是一個德政但是我還是想要問我們務實的討論嘛我剛剛說了那個就業服務\n\n49\n00:17:50,036 --> 00:18:18,118\n那個同業工會這個台南理事長今天報導寫他說如果以目前的量來看預計可能是2萬到3萬人一年那我就只是剛剛一個簡單的問題就是說面對這樣的狀況假設是2到3萬的需求量請問現在勞動部過去7個月你剛剛做的那些可能都是方法或者是你有做了哪些努力我只是想問說那你成果是怎麼樣你目前估計起來這2萬到3萬人你有沒有辦法消化\n\n50\n00:18:19,906 --> 00:18:47,161\n我想我們還是要真的還是要努力啦請問有沒有相關的數字給本席啊就是說你過去7個月你剛剛說你做了這麼多的努力好那我想要請問那你這7個月你有多了多少的移工看護因為這基本上是供需問題嘛不是移工看護不是從不是這7個月移工看護是要到8月1號才開始進來所以那你預估你過去的努力可以增加有沒有辦法消化我剛剛意思也是這樣就是說你未來\n\n51\n00:18:48,752 --> 00:19:16,894\n我剛剛再次講他們預估的數據打這是一年兩到三萬人多這個需求的申請那想要請問勞動部請就我的問題就是說你過去七個月的準備你認為接下來這一年你有沒有辦法提供這樣子的量我們會全力以赴啦我們相關的準備我們會全力以赴部長有沒有預估的數字不能就是只有講全力以赴我一直想要表達就是說數據在這裡那你大概有沒有辦法跟委員說明包括我們照\n\n52\n00:19:18,515 --> 00:19:35,286\n像我們有補助衛福部的這個照管中心的一些人力包括我們部裡面審查的人力其實這些人力補助的多跟少我們也一直在密切的看那就是看這個案源的量增加多少\n\n53\n00:19:36,147 --> 00:20:02,562\n按援的量增加多少大家現在的確有各種預估有些人預估比較高一點有些人比較預估低一點但從勞動部的角度我們應該要把狀況設想的比較如果人比較多我們可以因應的話那就相對有比較好的條件來去面對人比較少的狀況我覺得是這樣就是說勞動部應該要做好所謂的高預估中預估然後可能低預估那你就是剛剛你說的勞動部要\n\n54\n00:20:04,584 --> 00:20:24,717\n這個嚴謹的面對嘛所以假設是高預估那你究竟現在的量能可以符合是什麼到底是可以符合你的低預估呢還是中預估還是你高預估現在做不到那我們就要去想那怎麼解決嘛我要跟委員說明的確我們現在在收到的一些案子包括來城前案子裡面也包括比方說會有一些他的看護的僱主他在表達說\n\n55\n00:20:26,259 --> 00:20:44,275\n因為這個修法之後所以部長不好意思我是覺得我們不要一直用這種個案式的就要有人來反映這個有人來反映那個我其實想要表達就是這樣那實況是我剛剛一直問你究竟你的量能的數據究竟你量能的數據可不可以符合我們會盡力\n\n56\n00:20:47,008 --> 00:21:09,211\n好部長因為時間我知道我也過很久可是我還是想要告訴大家其實可以看到我剛問的問題是勞動部是沒有具體的數據我知道勞動部的大家都很辛苦但是我是希望說一樣務實理性面對所以剛剛說的都是數字現在已經上路了8月17號1450人申請好那究竟一年推估大約多少我剛也說了\n\n57\n00:21:10,312 --> 00:21:31,851\n這個業界說可能是一年兩到三萬那究竟勞動部假設兩到三萬好了是中推估好那你可不可以符合你目前過去七個月所做的努力你剛講了你做了很多的努力好我們都沒有要抹殺但是究竟你可不可以補上一年兩三萬的這個缺口我們會盡力全力以赴這是我其實本席重要的問題我們會盡力全力以赴但我們不能夠把話講得太滿\n\n58\n00:21:33,352 --> 00:21:58,217\n我沒有要你講太滿我們也是務實理性嘛我剛剛就說了低推估中推估高推估那你究竟目前為止你過去7個月的努力你究竟是可以做到低推估中推估還是高推估部長你剛剛都沒有回答我你只有回答我全力以赴我知道大家都很辛苦但委員說明我沒有辦法把話講得太滿那因為這裡面的確還有不確定性那沒有部長那你可不可以告訴我你不能講太滿那你可不可以告訴我你的低推估中推估高推估你可以滿足的是什麼\n\n59\n00:21:59,057 --> 00:22:19,927\n其實我剛剛一直要問的是這個這是我為什麼要講剛剛的例子因為你要講滿足這個滿足這個話要這是這個不容易我說數量我說數量我說為什麼不容易讓我說明為什麼不容易因為其實現在是有很多的這些聘僱看護的長者他確實現在遇到看護會跟他說我真的想轉出了\n\n60\n00:22:21,772 --> 00:22:44,938\n真的表達他想轉出或者是他要求增加薪資這個事情其實對於很多聘僱的家庭來說對他來講也是一個新的情境的衝擊部長所以剛剛我提到的就是你的供應也是修法以後產生的狀況你過去7個月準備供應來源有沒有辦法補上就可以彌補你剛剛說的狀況因為如果你的供應來源是足夠的他可能就沒有這個所謂的狀況發生\n\n61\n00:22:47,658 --> 00:23:07,623\n但是這確實還是有母國的因素他不全然控制在我們手上好謝謝今天在場很多官員我相信剛剛我的問題應該是蠻單純的就是說這個供應究竟足不足夠那我希望的是部長請大家一起共同務實理性面對現在既然有數字了那究竟數字預估多少以及你可不可以趕上請\n\n62\n00:23:08,863 --> 00:23:30,637\n那個貴部可以提供本席報告好不好針對我剛剛的問題因為你剛剛沒有辦法回答我好那我希望可以提供給本席跟委員會你們究竟可以提在這一年過去七個月準備接接下來一年可能會遇到的量能你究竟準備了多少好這個我覺得是比較務實的我們把我們準備的量能可以好不好說明好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝廖委員還有部長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n8619\t25301\t謝謝主席有請洪部長請洪部長六點早部長早部長我想要先針對今天主要兩個大題那第一題呢我想要先針對救安基金\n26178\t47734\t那救安基金被披露2022年到2024年之間補助電視劇零日攻擊導演的羅景仁團隊獲得救安基金2872萬元的補助那我要先講這個前幾天有這個新聞出來說勞動部好像是問A答B你說你們沒有補助這個零日攻擊但是其實他們在講就是說補助這個團隊\n49215\t58748\t好那這個部分還是用開口契約來發包所以要請部長注意我剛剛講過我們不是說針對補助臨日公集這個隱疾而是針對\n60339\t88611\t救安基金來補助這個羅導演拍勞動部影片的部分在程序上提出很嚴正的質疑開口契約就台北市政府訂定的這個採購注意事項解釋是用於契約所列的履約期間數量不定由機關依實際需要隨時通知廠商履約的採購那我想相信不管是中央或地方這個大概都是類似的概念和規定\n89651\t109621\t所以換句話說這是一個可以依照政府機關自身的需求做出彈性的採購但是針對於得標廠商而言他是不用列出相關的計劃內容或者成效目標的空白支票那最終也可能導致行政機關勞動部驗收的時候無法核驗的情況\n110481\t129439\t那我想這也都是審計部年度報告跟救安基金專門審計報告一而再再而三點出來的內容包含之前有提到淨什麼前進的光相關的音樂會濫用的部分所以我想要請問一下部長這個媒體宣傳的經費跟使用方式是不是由部本部統籌是嗎\n131821\t148664\t先跟廖委員說明第一個我並不是問A答B因為就像委員看到當天的媒體的下標左邊這個標所以因為這個媒體的標題很多人在讀到這個標的時候都來問我們 都來問勞動部為什麼勞動部補助零日工級\n149605\t151929\t很多人來問我們這個問題但是這個標讓很多人在讀起來的時候都來問我們說為什麼所以我們才要說勞動部沒有補助臨時工級因為當天真的很多人來問我們這個問題所以我才要講這是第一點\n164967\t186829\t那第二點剛剛委員在問到開口契約的問題的時候的確我們後來在去年底做了開口契約的部長我想先請問第一個問題我剛說是不是這個沒宣的費用和經費和使用都是有不本不統籌是吧那我想要先再問一下那當初這個是誰當初是不本不統籌對那是誰簽准同意這個開口合約的方式針對這個案子\n190305\t217193\t我想我還是必須說就是針對當初的這個開口契約的使用那我們其實在去年年底我們就做出了檢討部長你先回答我嘛當初這個這個導演他相關的案子他的開口合約和這樣子的媒體採購 媒宣採購的部分是誰同意使用這個開口合約方式我現在手上可能沒有這個資料你沒有但你知道嗎我現在手上沒有這個資料那你們知道嗎你們有去調查嗎\n218547\t233917\t有嗎我跟委員說明現在這些相關的救安基金的案子你先不要用說在檢調那裡因為看起來你們也搞不清楚狀況我只是想問說因為剛剛部長也有說你們有這個要做懲處啊或是內部要去做檢調那到底是誰你們知道嗎\n235098\t254718\t不知道的話怎麼懲處 怎麼去做我們做了檢討了檢討你是叫制度面嘛我們對於接下來開口契約的使用方式包括適用的範圍我們做出了檢討我們認為比方說像是一些影片我們就認為不太適合再放在這個政策宣導的開口契約裡面\n255879\t278590\t除了影片之外的沒選咧還是有很多開口紀約嗎除了影片我們認為一些影片包括一些活動的辦理不適合放在開口紀約部長因為你還是沒有回答我問題好我再問下一題我等一下再回來問你這一題純粹看補助的成效其實也非常的糟糕在2022年的時候拍攝勞動節主題影片製作阿仿洗衣店他單支影片補助是1069就是1069萬按讚數僅488\n284153\t304772\t那2023年呢 這個羅導演又接續接了勞動節的主題影片紙紮片補助971萬元 按讚數是1761那2024年呢 又補助了 又拍攝了第三支影片勞動萬歲搬家片 花了831萬 按讚數只有202個\n308695\t320593\t那平均一個站最便宜是6000塊最貴4.1萬我想這樣的成果是民眾百姓是看不下去的是沒辦法看下去這也是為什麼我們要去\n321670\t344058\t看緊荷包所以包含部長這個羅導演在臉書說他拍攝超過1500隻廣告客戶來自全球世界各地是純粹的商業廣告導演許多的作品在好像各地都有獲獎那我想要問請問為什麼拍出的成果這麼糟糕那只有幾種可能嗎第一個\n344918\t362085\t拍攝的成品有問題商業案他所謂號稱優秀的導演那面對公部門的標案是不是隨便亂做這是第一個可能第二可能勞動部在驗收的時候放水成品有瑕疵卻不知道第三個可能是成品好可能很優秀但勞動部拿到成品後卻不積極宣傳\n363866\t386363\t那我想不管是哪一種都是讓人沒有辦法接受的所以部長我想問到底是哪一個單位負責驗收然後驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會成效這麼差成效這麼差你可以看到成效這麼糟糕這麼糟糕的成效為什麼可以連續三年拿到標案跟委員說明\n387335\t409529\t第一個這個成效有點難只看一個單一的平台上面這些按讚數單一平台嗎那如果所有平台加起來多少我先跟委員說明這三支這三支影片都有獲得4A的創意獎其中一支甚至還入圍這個坎城創意獎我想這入圍這些獎項跟得這個獎都不是容易的事情這三支影片\n409949\t427055\t所以你覺得是重點是在於宣傳還是是我要跟委員說的是說第一個這並不是三支很糟糕的影片不是像委員剛才口中說很糟糕的影片我說成效啊他得到很多的獎項那其實他的品質也是好的\n427526\t455091\t那就成效或者是點閱數來說的話也不能只是看單一一個平台也包括他脫波的次數都包括在這裡面所以我要跟文說明說當然這個這位導演他在廣告界有他素有聲譽的地方來部長我跟你說第一個我剛有說成果很差有三種可能我也不是完全就是說這個得獎還是怎麼樣的成效\n455791\t481887\t我是問說他的這個宣傳的成果是很差的不然你當初你拍這個片不是重點就是要宣傳嗎好那成果差我剛有說三種可能一個成品有問題會不會是優秀導演他做出來成品沒問題那你說成品沒問題成品沒問題那是不是你驗收的時候是怎麼驗收的是不是有放水還是說成品很優秀你沒有好好的經營沒有好好的宣傳所以我的問題是部長是哪一個單位驗收\n482307\t507560\t那驗收的報告包含你剛剛說的不只是網路的成果還有包含脫波這些相關的成效我想問說驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會我想我們其實之前在我們包括審計的一些報告我們其實都有提供給都有提供給立法院的然後再來剛剛說為什麼連續三年度還可以拿到開口契約然後我想就我所知因為當時不是我主政\n508800\t527765\t就我所知是因為這位導演第一個他真的在廣告界裡面素有聲譽而且他的拍攝的成果的品質都做到很多的好評就我知道是這樣所以因為這樣子那所以只要說他素有聲譽他來拍就可以輕鬆得標是這樣子嗎我不知道\n528525\t557055\t那所以我想要問的就是我不知道什麼輕不輕鬆但是就我知道之所以他拿到所以部長我想請問一下他的確是業界非常非常知名而且他的工作的成果也很好的這個部長我還是想要回到剛剛講的那到底是誰簽合的你們到底部內知不知道然後當初你們簽的剛剛前面委員也有講到他本來應該要履約的是35部影片兩場記者會但是最後呢只有一部影片一場記者會\n557995\t581287\t那這個部分到底是誰驗收所以第一個問題 各位說明其實現在有點誤會35市那個市並不是指一市就是一部影片不是這個意思你可以看很多的開口卻並不是市代表的是一個計價單位那是多少一個計價單位大概是19萬多吧大概19萬4千多等一下部長那我還是你回到我的問題喔\n582847\t598637\t這個細節我剛才不是問你說一試多少我是要問說那是誰驗收的因為你剛才說35部影片那不是35部影片35試那我想請問到底是誰驗收所以你認為他得到這些金額他目前繳交的成果是完全合理的跟委員說明我們正是\n599957\t623438\t那為什麼你剛剛又要說你們有回去要懲處相關的在前面的委員在問的時候我跟廖委員說明我是說你剛才問我說這個導演這個導演他真的在業界是素有聲譽的那他拍出來的這三支影片的確也得獎很多這是事實他的確得獎很多但是這個開口契約在執行面的做法我們認為我到部裡面以後\n624406\t652640\t我認為是可以有更好的執行的方式的那請問是誰去簽的是誰核准這個開口契約那你什麼時候可以給本席辦公室跟委員會我們可能回去來看一下相關的資料但是我要說的事情是說我們其實已經把相關的開口契約停下來檢討了所以我再進來問一下請問部長現在還有其他的沒選是用開口契約的嗎今年是沒有了沒有了你剛剛是說年初還有你是先暫停\n653900\t676175\t我去年底去年底在114年的開口契約的標案我就把它給廢標停下來到現在都還是停的我們都停下來檢討了所以這個部分現在都不會再用開口契約嗎不是我講的不是未來不會是我們在檢討在美宣上面還需要嗎讓我說明我們認為在開口契約的使用上面\n677156\t692598\t未來可能不適合再把影片或者是活動放到因為影片跟活動其實他比較沒有一個公定的價格所以可能會造成大家比較多在理解上面或者是包括在驗收上面比較就像審計部說的那樣\n693800\t711193\t所以這是為什麼我們做出檢討以後我們就把標案給停下來那我們未來接下來就算要用開口契約也會把這幾個項目從開口契約的範圍拿出來我認為這樣子的情況是非常的有疑義的這中間到底有沒有圖利問題是不是應該要請部長請政風移送檢調進行刑事調查\n712654\t734963\t跟文說明現在這個我們在救安基金的支用的問題上面其實檢調都一直是有立案在調查所以有包含這個案子嗎是也有全部的資料全部都有配合檢調調查是好那到時候再把剛剛我們我剛剛本席提的就是說到底是誰核准這些開口契約用這種沒沒宣的費用的方式到時候給本席和委員會辦個報告好不好我們回去\n735063\t759506\t再看一下相關的事再來就是這個開口契約使用我們是徹底的檢討中的再來再問一下接下來是針對我們今天的主題巴士量表針對這個部分當初勞動部一直在修法前到現在都說會有10萬的人申請會衝擊重症家庭那我想要請問一下部長第一週到底是申請的多少人那到8月17日截止到底有多少人申請\n760667\t776767\t我們現在看到的數據 第一週確實是比較少那第二週就是第一週的兩倍 比較少是多少應該是四百多 四百多四五百 四五百 四百多 四五百然後第二週是 以前就是第一週的兩倍那我想要請 所以到八月十七為止總共是多少現在是1450左右 1450\n779190\t805518\t那所以兩週下來大約1450一個月大約是可能不到3000件2800件2900件左右那我會說現在啦我會說目前這樣推估我當然知道接下來你很難預估未來的狀況我們現在比較難急下去預估未來一定他的趨勢的走向那我想要請教一下因為確實這個趨勢在12週來說是上升的那80歲以上跟70歲以上的這個癌症患者\n806218\t809934\t就是可以符合申請條件的目前有申請並通過的又是幾件\n812626\t836207\t時間點都還沒有辦法 他現在都還在求財登記的階段他現在是在求財接濟 後面才會取得這個求財的證明那後面才是招募許可所以部長其實我想要講的事情是其實今天的報告你完全沒有提到這些相關的數字喔今天你們提供的報告只有在質詢的時候你才把剛剛的數字講出來所以我希望這個部分應該是要用\n837128\t860303\t科學務實理性的方式去看數字的變化而不是一直喊這種狼來了喔有10萬多人過去立法就是用這種政治性的語言我覺得現在既然政策要上路了我們就是務實的面對所以第一週你說400多人第二週是1000人所以總共目前為止17號其實17號是1450人喔那我想要講的事情是其實在實務上喔\n861738\t884440\t目前也有人說地方上就是說你有資格申請但是在申請程序上你剛說前面先7天登記嘛在這個國內的求財7天先求財7天沒有然後才會去進一步的審查對不對然後在審查上面審查會上面審查員這個是這個民眾地方民眾的反應就是說也有可能會有技術性的阻擋不會\n885501\t903135\t不會所以就是只要過了就會重開我跟委員說明其實對於輕症的來說就是按照過去過去怎麼做現在就怎麼做輕症的部分我們做的是把重症做優先可是我們不會去阻擋也不會去卡輕症的好那我想要說的是包含台南的就業服務工會的這個理事長\n903996\t918942\t他是有提到在報道上面有提到他就說假設第一年這個其實只有申請他說以目前他們的推估這是業界的推估不是我的推估他說以目前這樣看起來前面的這些數字第一年可能申請的就是2萬到3萬人\n920563\t940699\t那本席是想問說那具體而言這部分補得足嗎然後再來是因為本來年初通過這個法案你有大概7個月的準備期嗎那這個部分你們究竟成果如何因為你擔心是來源不足或是移工看護的量能不足那你也多了7個月的時間我想請問你補得上這個\n942185\t968076\t目前的進度是怎麼樣跟文說明在去年底通過然後1月20號總統公告後我們馬上就找四個移工的來源國在商議要增加這個引進的量我們馬上就跟他們討論了部長我不是要問你過程我想問結果就是說成果是什麼因為當初一通過你說需要給勞動部時間去消化嘛\n968536\t995475\t那我只是想問說因為你看我們8月1號上路目前為止是1450好那我們假設預估啦假設預估用所謂業界的標準來看假設一年是兩到三萬人那想要請問這個部分勞動部準備的怎麼樣過去七個月成果如何然後未來是不是可以就是這個來源訓練因為你剛剛有說其實你剛剛部長也有說到目前的來源國他可能是也有也有足夠的量可是你也要兼顧訓練的品質嘛對不對\n998077\t1021174\t所以看起來我都不敢用足夠這兩個字但我們會盡量的跟他協商增加所以沒有換言之其實重點問題到底在哪是不是訓練的量能是嗎我跟委員說明其實這七個月左右的時間我們做了幾件事情第一個剛才跟來源母國來協商增加第二個我們也建立了輕重分流重症優先的\n1023481\t1040283\t這個機制審查流程這跟很謝謝衛福部一起協助第三個我把讓委員讓我說我們也擴編了預算包括擴編了人力來補充包括這個照管中心他可能所需要的人力包括我們自己需要審案件的人力\n1041044\t1066255\t所以經費跟人力我們也增加了這都是7個月左右的時間我們的配套包括這些人力也還要訓練喔這些增加的人力都還要訓練這就是在這7個月裡面我們在進行的事情部長好那我在這裡說謝謝感謝勞動部的所有同仁這個大家辛苦了那也感謝大家因為其實這個是一個在民間是一個德政但是我還是想要問我們務實的討論嘛我剛剛說了那個就業服務\n1070036\t1098118\t那個同業工會這個台南理事長今天報導寫他說如果以目前的量來看預計可能是2萬到3萬人一年那我就只是剛剛一個簡單的問題就是說面對這樣的狀況假設是2到3萬的需求量請問現在勞動部過去7個月你剛剛做的那些可能都是方法或者是你有做了哪些努力我只是想問說那你成果是怎麼樣你目前估計起來這2萬到3萬人你有沒有辦法消化\n1099906\t1127161\t我想我們還是要真的還是要努力啦請問有沒有相關的數字給本席啊就是說你過去7個月你剛剛說你做了這麼多的努力好那我想要請問那你這7個月你有多了多少的移工看護因為這基本上是供需問題嘛不是移工看護不是從不是這7個月移工看護是要到8月1號才開始進來所以那你預估你過去的努力可以增加有沒有辦法消化我剛剛意思也是這樣就是說你未來\n1128752\t1156894\t我剛剛再次講他們預估的數據打這是一年兩到三萬人多這個需求的申請那想要請問勞動部請就我的問題就是說你過去七個月的準備你認為接下來這一年你有沒有辦法提供這樣子的量我們會全力以赴啦我們相關的準備我們會全力以赴 部長有沒有預估的數字 不能就是只有講全力以赴我一直想要表達就是說數據在這裡那你大概 有沒有辦法 跟委員說明包括我們照\n1158515\t1175286\t像我們有補助衛福部的這個照管中心的一些人力包括我們部裡面審查的人力其實這些人力補助的多跟少我們也一直在密切的看那就是看這個案源的量增加多少\n1176147\t1202562\t按援的量增加多少大家現在的確有各種預估有些人預估比較高一點有些人比較預估低一點但從勞動部的角度我們應該要把狀況設想的比較如果人比較多我們可以因應的話那就相對有比較好的條件來去面對人比較少的狀況我覺得是這樣就是說勞動部應該要做好所謂的高預估中預估然後可能低預估那你就是剛剛你說的勞動部要\n1204584\t1224717\t這個嚴謹的面對嘛所以假設是高預估那你究竟現在的量能可以符合是什麼到底是可以符合你的低預估呢還是中預估還是你高預估現在做不到那我們就要去想那怎麼解決嘛我要跟委員說明的確我們現在在收到的一些案子包括來城前案子裡面也包括比方說會有一些他的看護的僱主他在表達說\n1226259\t1244275\t因為這個修法之後所以部長不好意思我是覺得我們不要一直用這種個案式的就要有人來反映這個有人來反映那個我其實想要表達就是這樣那實況是我剛剛一直問你究竟你的量能的數據究竟你量能的數據可不可以符合我們會盡力\n1247008\t1269211\t好部長因為時間我知道我也過很久可是我還是想要告訴大家其實可以看到我剛問的問題是勞動部是沒有具體的數據我知道勞動部的大家都很辛苦但是我是希望說一樣務實理性面對所以剛剛說的都是數字現在已經上路了8月17號1450人申請好那究竟一年推估大約多少我剛也說了\n1270312\t1291851\t這個業界說可能是一年兩到三萬那究竟勞動部假設兩到三萬好了是中推估好那你可不可以符合你目前過去七個月所做的努力你剛講了你做了很多的努力好我們都沒有要抹殺但是究竟你可不可以補上一年兩三萬的這個缺口我們會盡力全力以赴這是我其實本席重要的問題我們會盡力全力以赴但我們不能夠把話講得太滿\n1293352\t1318217\t我沒有要你講太滿我們也是務實理性嘛我剛剛就說了低推估中推估高推估那你究竟目前為止你過去7個月的努力你究竟是可以做到低推估中推估還是高推估部長你剛剛都沒有回答我你只有回答我全力以赴我知道大家都很辛苦但委員說明我沒有辦法把話講得太滿那因為這裡面的確還有不確定性那沒有部長那你可不可以告訴我你不能講太滿那你可不可以告訴我你的低推估中推估高推估你可以滿足的是什麼\n1319057\t1339927\t其實我剛剛一直要問的是這個這是我為什麼要講剛剛的例子因為你要講滿足這個滿足這個話要這是這個不容易我說數量我說數量我說為什麼不容易讓我說明為什麼不容易因為其實現在是有很多的這些聘僱看護的長者他確實現在遇到看護會跟他說我真的想轉出了\n1341772\t1364938\t真的表達他想轉出或者是他要求增加薪資這個事情其實對於很多聘僱的家庭來說對他來講也是一個新的情境的衝擊部長所以剛剛我提到的就是你的供應也是修法以後產生的狀況你過去7個月準備供應來源有沒有辦法補上就可以彌補你剛剛說的狀況因為如果你的供應來源是足夠的他可能就沒有這個所謂的狀況發生\n1367658\t1387623\t但是這確實還是有母國的因素他不全然控制在我們手上好謝謝今天在場很多官員我相信剛剛我的問題應該是蠻單純的就是說這個供應究竟足不足夠那我希望的是部長請大家一起共同務實理性面對現在既然有數字了那究竟數字預估多少以及你可不可以趕上請\n1388863\t1410637\t那個貴部可以提供本席報告好不好針對我剛剛的問題因為你剛剛沒有辦法回答我好那我希望可以提供給本席跟委員會你們究竟可以提在這一年過去七個月準備接接下來一年可能會遇到的量能你究竟準備了多少好這個我覺得是比較務實的我們把我們準備的量能可以好不好說明好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝廖委員還有部長\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請洪部長請洪部長六點早部長早部長我想要先針對今天主要兩個大題那第一題呢我想要先針對救安基金\n那救安基金被披露2022年到2024年之間補助電視劇零日攻擊導演的羅景仁團隊獲得救安基金2872萬元的補助那我要先講這個前幾天有這個新聞出來說勞動部好像是問A答B你說你們沒有補助這個零日攻擊但是其實他們在講就是說補助這個團隊\n好那這個部分還是用開口契約來發包所以要請部長注意我剛剛講過我們不是說針對補助臨日公集這個隱疾而是針對\n救安基金來補助這個羅導演拍勞動部影片的部分在程序上提出很嚴正的質疑開口契約就台北市政府訂定的這個採購注意事項解釋是用於契約所列的履約期間數量不定由機關依實際需要隨時通知廠商履約的採購那我想相信不管是中央或地方這個大概都是類似的概念和規定\n所以換句話說這是一個可以依照政府機關自身的需求做出彈性的採購但是針對於得標廠商而言他是不用列出相關的計劃內容或者成效目標的空白支票那最終也可能導致行政機關勞動部驗收的時候無法核驗的情況\n那我想這也都是審計部年度報告跟救安基金專門審計報告一而再再而三點出來的內容包含之前有提到淨什麼前進的光相關的音樂會濫用的部分所以我想要請問一下部長這個媒體宣傳的經費跟使用方式是不是由部本部統籌是嗎\n先跟廖委員說明第一個我並不是問A答B因為就像委員看到當天的媒體的下標左邊這個標所以因為這個媒體的標題很多人在讀到這個標的時候都來問我們 都來問勞動部為什麼勞動部補助零日工級\n很多人來問我們這個問題但是這個標讓很多人在讀起來的時候都來問我們說為什麼所以我們才要說勞動部沒有補助臨時工級因為當天真的很多人來問我們這個問題所以我才要講這是第一點\n那第二點剛剛委員在問到開口契約的問題的時候的確我們後來在去年底做了開口契約的部長我想先請問第一個問題我剛說是不是這個沒宣的費用和經費和使用都是有不本不統籌是吧那我想要先再問一下那當初這個是誰當初是不本不統籌對那是誰簽准同意這個開口合約的方式針對這個案子\n我想我還是必須說就是針對當初的這個開口契約的使用那我們其實在去年年底我們就做出了檢討部長你先回答我嘛當初這個這個導演他相關的案子他的開口合約和這樣子的媒體採購 媒宣採購的部分是誰同意使用這個開口合約方式我現在手上可能沒有這個資料你沒有但你知道嗎我現在手上沒有這個資料那你們知道嗎你們有去調查嗎\n有嗎我跟委員說明現在這些相關的救安基金的案子你先不要用說在檢調那裡因為看起來你們也搞不清楚狀況我只是想問說因為剛剛部長也有說你們有這個要做懲處啊或是內部要去做檢調那到底是誰你們知道嗎\n不知道的話怎麼懲處 怎麼去做我們做了檢討了檢討你是叫制度面嘛我們對於接下來開口契約的使用方式包括適用的範圍我們做出了檢討我們認為比方說像是一些影片我們就認為不太適合再放在這個政策宣導的開口契約裡面\n除了影片之外的沒選咧還是有很多開口紀約嗎除了影片我們認為一些影片包括一些活動的辦理不適合放在開口紀約部長因為你還是沒有回答我問題好我再問下一題我等一下再回來問你這一題純粹看補助的成效其實也非常的糟糕在2022年的時候拍攝勞動節主題影片製作阿仿洗衣店他單支影片補助是1069就是1069萬按讚數僅488\n那2023年呢 這個羅導演又接續接了勞動節的主題影片紙紮片補助971萬元 按讚數是1761那2024年呢 又補助了 又拍攝了第三支影片勞動萬歲搬家片 花了831萬 按讚數只有202個\n那平均一個站最便宜是6000塊最貴4.1萬我想這樣的成果是民眾百姓是看不下去的是沒辦法看下去這也是為什麼我們要去\n看緊荷包所以包含部長這個羅導演在臉書說他拍攝超過1500隻廣告客戶來自全球世界各地是純粹的商業廣告導演許多的作品在好像各地都有獲獎那我想要問請問為什麼拍出的成果這麼糟糕那只有幾種可能嗎第一個\n拍攝的成品有問題商業案他所謂號稱優秀的導演那面對公部門的標案是不是隨便亂做這是第一個可能第二可能勞動部在驗收的時候放水成品有瑕疵卻不知道第三個可能是成品好可能很優秀但勞動部拿到成品後卻不積極宣傳\n那我想不管是哪一種都是讓人沒有辦法接受的所以部長我想問到底是哪一個單位負責驗收然後驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會成效這麼差成效這麼差你可以看到成效這麼糟糕這麼糟糕的成效為什麼可以連續三年拿到標案跟委員說明\n第一個這個成效有點難只看一個單一的平台上面這些按讚數單一平台嗎那如果所有平台加起來多少我先跟委員說明這三支這三支影片都有獲得4A的創意獎其中一支甚至還入圍這個坎城創意獎我想這入圍這些獎項跟得這個獎都不是容易的事情這三支影片\n所以你覺得是重點是在於宣傳還是是我要跟委員說的是說第一個這並不是三支很糟糕的影片不是像委員剛才口中說很糟糕的影片我說成效啊他得到很多的獎項那其實他的品質也是好的\n那就成效或者是點閱數來說的話也不能只是看單一一個平台也包括他脫波的次數都包括在這裡面所以我要跟文說明說當然這個這位導演他在廣告界有他素有聲譽的地方來部長我跟你說第一個我剛有說成果很差有三種可能我也不是完全就是說這個得獎還是怎麼樣的成效\n我是問說他的這個宣傳的成果是很差的不然你當初你拍這個片不是重點就是要宣傳嗎好那成果差我剛有說三種可能一個成品有問題會不會是優秀導演他做出來成品沒問題那你說成品沒問題成品沒問題那是不是你驗收的時候是怎麼驗收的是不是有放水還是說成品很優秀你沒有好好的經營沒有好好的宣傳所以我的問題是部長是哪一個單位驗收\n那驗收的報告包含你剛剛說的不只是網路的成果還有包含脫波這些相關的成效我想問說驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會我想我們其實之前在我們包括審計的一些報告我們其實都有提供給都有提供給立法院的然後再來剛剛說為什麼連續三年度還可以拿到開口契約然後我想就我所知因為當時不是我主政\n就我所知是因為這位導演第一個他真的在廣告界裡面素有聲譽而且他的拍攝的成果的品質都做到很多的好評就我知道是這樣所以因為這樣子那所以只要說他素有聲譽他來拍就可以輕鬆得標是這樣子嗎我不知道\n那所以我想要問的就是我不知道什麼輕不輕鬆但是就我知道之所以他拿到所以部長我想請問一下他的確是業界非常非常知名而且他的工作的成果也很好的這個部長我還是想要回到剛剛講的那到底是誰簽合的你們到底部內知不知道然後當初你們簽的剛剛前面委員也有講到他本來應該要履約的是35部影片兩場記者會但是最後呢只有一部影片一場記者會\n那這個部分到底是誰驗收所以第一個問題 各位說明其實現在有點誤會35市那個市並不是指一市就是一部影片不是這個意思你可以看很多的開口卻並不是市代表的是一個計價單位那是多少一個計價單位大概是19萬多吧大概19萬4千多等一下部長那我還是你回到我的問題喔\n這個細節我剛才不是問你說一試多少我是要問說那是誰驗收的因為你剛才說35部影片那不是35部影片35試那我想請問到底是誰驗收所以你認為他得到這些金額他目前繳交的成果是完全合理的跟委員說明我們正是\n那為什麼你剛剛又要說你們有回去要懲處相關的在前面的委員在問的時候我跟廖委員說明我是說你剛才問我說這個導演這個導演他真的在業界是素有聲譽的那他拍出來的這三支影片的確也得獎很多這是事實他的確得獎很多但是這個開口契約在執行面的做法我們認為我到部裡面以後\n我認為是可以有更好的執行的方式的那請問是誰去簽的是誰核准這個開口契約那你什麼時候可以給本席辦公室跟委員會我們可能回去來看一下相關的資料但是我要說的事情是說我們其實已經把相關的開口契約停下來檢討了所以我再進來問一下請問部長現在還有其他的沒選是用開口契約的嗎今年是沒有了沒有了你剛剛是說年初還有你是先暫停\n我去年底去年底在114年的開口契約的標案我就把它給廢標停下來到現在都還是停的我們都停下來檢討了所以這個部分現在都不會再用開口契約嗎不是我講的不是未來不會是我們在檢討在美宣上面還需要嗎讓我說明我們認為在開口契約的使用上面\n未來可能不適合再把影片或者是活動放到因為影片跟活動其實他比較沒有一個公定的價格所以可能會造成大家比較多在理解上面或者是包括在驗收上面比較就像審計部說的那樣\n所以這是為什麼我們做出檢討以後我們就把標案給停下來那我們未來接下來就算要用開口契約也會把這幾個項目從開口契約的範圍拿出來我認為這樣子的情況是非常的有疑義的這中間到底有沒有圖利問題是不是應該要請部長請政風移送檢調進行刑事調查\n跟文說明現在這個我們在救安基金的支用的問題上面其實檢調都一直是有立案在調查所以有包含這個案子嗎是也有全部的資料全部都有配合檢調調查是好那到時候再把剛剛我們我剛剛本席提的就是說到底是誰核准這些開口契約用這種沒沒宣的費用的方式到時候給本席和委員會辦個報告好不好我們回去\n再看一下相關的事再來就是這個開口契約使用我們是徹底的檢討中的再來再問一下接下來是針對我們今天的主題巴士量表針對這個部分當初勞動部一直在修法前到現在都說會有10萬的人申請會衝擊重症家庭那我想要請問一下部長第一週到底是申請的多少人那到8月17日截止到底有多少人申請\n我們現在看到的數據 第一週確實是比較少那第二週就是第一週的兩倍 比較少是多少應該是四百多 四百多四五百 四五百 四百多 四五百然後第二週是 以前就是第一週的兩倍那我想要請 所以到八月十七為止總共是多少現在是1450左右 1450\n那所以兩週下來大約1450一個月大約是可能不到3000件2800件2900件左右那我會說現在啦我會說目前這樣推估我當然知道接下來你很難預估未來的狀況我們現在比較難急下去預估未來一定他的趨勢的走向那我想要請教一下因為確實這個趨勢在12週來說是上升的那80歲以上跟70歲以上的這個癌症患者\n就是可以符合申請條件的目前有申請並通過的又是幾件\n時間點都還沒有辦法 他現在都還在求財登記的階段他現在是在求財接濟 後面才會取得這個求財的證明那後面才是招募許可所以部長其實我想要講的事情是其實今天的報告你完全沒有提到這些相關的數字喔今天你們提供的報告只有在質詢的時候你才把剛剛的數字講出來所以我希望這個部分應該是要用\n科學務實理性的方式去看數字的變化而不是一直喊這種狼來了喔有10萬多人過去立法就是用這種政治性的語言我覺得現在既然政策要上路了我們就是務實的面對所以第一週你說400多人第二週是1000人所以總共目前為止17號其實17號是1450人喔那我想要講的事情是其實在實務上喔\n目前也有人說地方上就是說你有資格申請但是在申請程序上你剛說前面先7天登記嘛在這個國內的求財7天先求財7天沒有然後才會去進一步的審查對不對然後在審查上面審查會上面審查員這個是這個民眾地方民眾的反應就是說也有可能會有技術性的阻擋不會\n不會所以就是只要過了就會重開我跟委員說明其實對於輕症的來說就是按照過去過去怎麼做現在就怎麼做輕症的部分我們做的是把重症做優先可是我們不會去阻擋也不會去卡輕症的好那我想要說的是包含台南的就業服務工會的這個理事長\n他是有提到在報道上面有提到他就說假設第一年這個其實只有申請他說以目前他們的推估這是業界的推估不是我的推估他說以目前這樣看起來前面的這些數字第一年可能申請的就是2萬到3萬人\n那本席是想問說那具體而言這部分補得足嗎然後再來是因為本來年初通過這個法案你有大概7個月的準備期嗎那這個部分你們究竟成果如何因為你擔心是來源不足或是移工看護的量能不足那你也多了7個月的時間我想請問你補得上這個\n目前的進度是怎麼樣跟文說明在去年底通過然後1月20號總統公告後我們馬上就找四個移工的來源國在商議要增加這個引進的量我們馬上就跟他們討論了部長我不是要問你過程我想問結果就是說成果是什麼因為當初一通過你說需要給勞動部時間去消化嘛\n那我只是想問說因為你看我們8月1號上路目前為止是1450好那我們假設預估啦假設預估用所謂業界的標準來看假設一年是兩到三萬人那想要請問這個部分勞動部準備的怎麼樣過去七個月成果如何然後未來是不是可以就是這個來源訓練因為你剛剛有說其實你剛剛部長也有說到目前的來源國他可能是也有也有足夠的量可是你也要兼顧訓練的品質嘛對不對\n所以看起來我都不敢用足夠這兩個字但我們會盡量的跟他協商增加所以沒有換言之其實重點問題到底在哪是不是訓練的量能是嗎我跟委員說明其實這七個月左右的時間我們做了幾件事情第一個剛才跟來源母國來協商增加第二個我們也建立了輕重分流重症優先的\n這個機制審查流程這跟很謝謝衛福部一起協助第三個我把讓委員讓我說我們也擴編了預算包括擴編了人力來補充包括這個照管中心他可能所需要的人力包括我們自己需要審案件的人力\n所以經費跟人力我們也增加了這都是7個月左右的時間我們的配套包括這些人力也還要訓練喔這些增加的人力都還要訓練這就是在這7個月裡面我們在進行的事情部長好那我在這裡說謝謝感謝勞動部的所有同仁這個大家辛苦了那也感謝大家因為其實這個是一個在民間是一個德政但是我還是想要問我們務實的討論嘛我剛剛說了那個就業服務\n那個同業工會這個台南理事長今天報導寫他說如果以目前的量來看預計可能是2萬到3萬人一年那我就只是剛剛一個簡單的問題就是說面對這樣的狀況假設是2到3萬的需求量請問現在勞動部過去7個月你剛剛做的那些可能都是方法或者是你有做了哪些努力我只是想問說那你成果是怎麼樣你目前估計起來這2萬到3萬人你有沒有辦法消化\n我想我們還是要真的還是要努力啦請問有沒有相關的數字給本席啊就是說你過去7個月你剛剛說你做了這麼多的努力好那我想要請問那你這7個月你有多了多少的移工看護因為這基本上是供需問題嘛不是移工看護不是從不是這7個月移工看護是要到8月1號才開始進來所以那你預估你過去的努力可以增加有沒有辦法消化我剛剛意思也是這樣就是說你未來\n我剛剛再次講他們預估的數據打這是一年兩到三萬人多這個需求的申請那想要請問勞動部請就我的問題就是說你過去七個月的準備你認為接下來這一年你有沒有辦法提供這樣子的量我們會全力以赴啦我們相關的準備我們會全力以赴 部長有沒有預估的數字 不能就是只有講全力以赴我一直想要表達就是說數據在這裡那你大概 有沒有辦法 跟委員說明包括我們照\n像我們有補助衛福部的這個照管中心的一些人力包括我們部裡面審查的人力其實這些人力補助的多跟少我們也一直在密切的看那就是看這個案源的量增加多少\n按援的量增加多少大家現在的確有各種預估有些人預估比較高一點有些人比較預估低一點但從勞動部的角度我們應該要把狀況設想的比較如果人比較多我們可以因應的話那就相對有比較好的條件來去面對人比較少的狀況我覺得是這樣就是說勞動部應該要做好所謂的高預估中預估然後可能低預估那你就是剛剛你說的勞動部要\n這個嚴謹的面對嘛所以假設是高預估那你究竟現在的量能可以符合是什麼到底是可以符合你的低預估呢還是中預估還是你高預估現在做不到那我們就要去想那怎麼解決嘛我要跟委員說明的確我們現在在收到的一些案子包括來城前案子裡面也包括比方說會有一些他的看護的僱主他在表達說\n因為這個修法之後所以部長不好意思我是覺得我們不要一直用這種個案式的就要有人來反映這個有人來反映那個我其實想要表達就是這樣那實況是我剛剛一直問你究竟你的量能的數據究竟你量能的數據可不可以符合我們會盡力\n好部長因為時間我知道我也過很久可是我還是想要告訴大家其實可以看到我剛問的問題是勞動部是沒有具體的數據我知道勞動部的大家都很辛苦但是我是希望說一樣務實理性面對所以剛剛說的都是數字現在已經上路了8月17號1450人申請好那究竟一年推估大約多少我剛也說了\n這個業界說可能是一年兩到三萬那究竟勞動部假設兩到三萬好了是中推估好那你可不可以符合你目前過去七個月所做的努力你剛講了你做了很多的努力好我們都沒有要抹殺但是究竟你可不可以補上一年兩三萬的這個缺口我們會盡力全力以赴這是我其實本席重要的問題我們會盡力全力以赴但我們不能夠把話講得太滿\n我沒有要你講太滿我們也是務實理性嘛我剛剛就說了低推估中推估高推估那你究竟目前為止你過去7個月的努力你究竟是可以做到低推估中推估還是高推估部長你剛剛都沒有回答我你只有回答我全力以赴我知道大家都很辛苦但委員說明我沒有辦法把話講得太滿那因為這裡面的確還有不確定性那沒有部長那你可不可以告訴我你不能講太滿那你可不可以告訴我你的低推估中推估高推估你可以滿足的是什麼\n其實我剛剛一直要問的是這個這是我為什麼要講剛剛的例子因為你要講滿足這個滿足這個話要這是這個不容易我說數量我說數量我說為什麼不容易讓我說明為什麼不容易因為其實現在是有很多的這些聘僱看護的長者他確實現在遇到看護會跟他說我真的想轉出了\n真的表達他想轉出或者是他要求增加薪資這個事情其實對於很多聘僱的家庭來說對他來講也是一個新的情境的衝擊部長所以剛剛我提到的就是你的供應也是修法以後產生的狀況你過去7個月準備供應來源有沒有辦法補上就可以彌補你剛剛說的狀況因為如果你的供應來源是足夠的他可能就沒有這個所謂的狀況發生\n但是這確實還是有母國的因素他不全然控制在我們手上好謝謝今天在場很多官員我相信剛剛我的問題應該是蠻單純的就是說這個供應究竟足不足夠那我希望的是部長請大家一起共同務實理性面對現在既然有數字了那究竟數字預估多少以及你可不可以趕上請\n那個貴部可以提供本席報告好不好針對我剛剛的問題因為你剛剛沒有辦法回答我好那我希望可以提供給本席跟委員會你們究竟可以提在這一年過去七個月準備接接下來一年可能會遇到的量能你究竟準備了多少好這個我覺得是比較務實的我們把我們準備的量能可以好不好說明好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝廖委員還有部長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:08.619 --> 00:25.301\n謝謝主席有請洪部長請洪部長六點早部長早部長我想要先針對今天主要兩個大題那第一題呢我想要先針對救安基金\n\n00:26.178 --> 00:47.734\n那救安基金被披露2022年到2024年之間補助電視劇零日攻擊導演的羅景仁團隊獲得救安基金2872萬元的補助那我要先講這個前幾天有這個新聞出來說勞動部好像是問A答B你說你們沒有補助這個零日攻擊但是其實他們在講就是說補助這個團隊\n\n00:49.215 --> 00:58.748\n好那這個部分還是用開口契約來發包所以要請部長注意我剛剛講過我們不是說針對補助臨日公集這個隱疾而是針對\n\n01:00.339 --> 01:28.611\n救安基金來補助這個羅導演拍勞動部影片的部分在程序上提出很嚴正的質疑開口契約就台北市政府訂定的這個採購注意事項解釋是用於契約所列的履約期間數量不定由機關依實際需要隨時通知廠商履約的採購那我想相信不管是中央或地方這個大概都是類似的概念和規定\n\n01:29.651 --> 01:49.621\n所以換句話說這是一個可以依照政府機關自身的需求做出彈性的採購但是針對於得標廠商而言他是不用列出相關的計劃內容或者成效目標的空白支票那最終也可能導致行政機關勞動部驗收的時候無法核驗的情況\n\n01:50.481 --> 02:09.439\n那我想這也都是審計部年度報告跟救安基金專門審計報告一而再再而三點出來的內容包含之前有提到淨什麼前進的光相關的音樂會濫用的部分所以我想要請問一下部長這個媒體宣傳的經費跟使用方式是不是由部本部統籌是嗎\n\n02:11.821 --> 02:28.664\n先跟廖委員說明第一個我並不是問A答B因為就像委員看到當天的媒體的下標左邊這個標所以因為這個媒體的標題很多人在讀到這個標的時候都來問我們都來問勞動部為什麼勞動部補助零日工級\n\n02:29.605 --> 02:31.929\n很多人來問我們這個問題但是這個標讓很多人在讀起來的時候都來問我們說為什麼所以我們才要說勞動部沒有補助臨時工級因為當天真的很多人來問我們這個問題所以我才要講這是第一點\n\n02:44.967 --> 03:06.829\n那第二點剛剛委員在問到開口契約的問題的時候的確我們後來在去年底做了開口契約的部長我想先請問第一個問題我剛說是不是這個沒宣的費用和經費和使用都是有不本不統籌是吧那我想要先再問一下那當初這個是誰當初是不本不統籌對那是誰簽准同意這個開口合約的方式針對這個案子\n\n03:10.305 --> 03:37.193\n我想我還是必須說就是針對當初的這個開口契約的使用那我們其實在去年年底我們就做出了檢討部長你先回答我嘛當初這個這個導演他相關的案子他的開口合約和這樣子的媒體採購媒宣採購的部分是誰同意使用這個開口合約方式我現在手上可能沒有這個資料你沒有但你知道嗎我現在手上沒有這個資料那你們知道嗎你們有去調查嗎\n\n03:38.547 --> 03:53.917\n有嗎我跟委員說明現在這些相關的救安基金的案子你先不要用說在檢調那裡因為看起來你們也搞不清楚狀況我只是想問說因為剛剛部長也有說你們有這個要做懲處啊或是內部要去做檢調那到底是誰你們知道嗎\n\n03:55.098 --> 04:14.718\n不知道的話怎麼懲處怎麼去做我們做了檢討了檢討你是叫制度面嘛我們對於接下來開口契約的使用方式包括適用的範圍我們做出了檢討我們認為比方說像是一些影片我們就認為不太適合再放在這個政策宣導的開口契約裡面\n\n04:15.879 --> 04:38.590\n除了影片之外的沒選咧還是有很多開口紀約嗎除了影片我們認為一些影片包括一些活動的辦理不適合放在開口紀約部長因為你還是沒有回答我問題好我再問下一題我等一下再回來問你這一題純粹看補助的成效其實也非常的糟糕在2022年的時候拍攝勞動節主題影片製作阿仿洗衣店他單支影片補助是1069就是1069萬按讚數僅488\n\n04:44.153 --> 05:04.772\n那2023年呢這個羅導演又接續接了勞動節的主題影片紙紮片補助971萬元按讚數是1761那2024年呢又補助了又拍攝了第三支影片勞動萬歲搬家片花了831萬按讚數只有202個\n\n05:08.695 --> 05:20.593\n那平均一個站最便宜是6000塊最貴4.1萬我想這樣的成果是民眾百姓是看不下去的是沒辦法看下去這也是為什麼我們要去\n\n05:21.670 --> 05:44.058\n看緊荷包所以包含部長這個羅導演在臉書說他拍攝超過1500隻廣告客戶來自全球世界各地是純粹的商業廣告導演許多的作品在好像各地都有獲獎那我想要問請問為什麼拍出的成果這麼糟糕那只有幾種可能嗎第一個\n\n05:44.918 --> 06:02.085\n拍攝的成品有問題商業案他所謂號稱優秀的導演那面對公部門的標案是不是隨便亂做這是第一個可能第二可能勞動部在驗收的時候放水成品有瑕疵卻不知道第三個可能是成品好可能很優秀但勞動部拿到成品後卻不積極宣傳\n\n06:03.866 --> 06:26.363\n那我想不管是哪一種都是讓人沒有辦法接受的所以部長我想問到底是哪一個單位負責驗收然後驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會成效這麼差成效這麼差你可以看到成效這麼糟糕這麼糟糕的成效為什麼可以連續三年拿到標案跟委員說明\n\n06:27.335 --> 06:49.529\n第一個這個成效有點難只看一個單一的平台上面這些按讚數單一平台嗎那如果所有平台加起來多少我先跟委員說明這三支這三支影片都有獲得4A的創意獎其中一支甚至還入圍這個坎城創意獎我想這入圍這些獎項跟得這個獎都不是容易的事情這三支影片\n\n06:49.949 --> 07:07.055\n所以你覺得是重點是在於宣傳還是是我要跟委員說的是說第一個這並不是三支很糟糕的影片不是像委員剛才口中說很糟糕的影片我說成效啊他得到很多的獎項那其實他的品質也是好的\n\n07:07.526 --> 07:35.091\n那就成效或者是點閱數來說的話也不能只是看單一一個平台也包括他脫波的次數都包括在這裡面所以我要跟文說明說當然這個這位導演他在廣告界有他素有聲譽的地方來部長我跟你說第一個我剛有說成果很差有三種可能我也不是完全就是說這個得獎還是怎麼樣的成效\n\n07:35.791 --> 08:01.887\n我是問說他的這個宣傳的成果是很差的不然你當初你拍這個片不是重點就是要宣傳嗎好那成果差我剛有說三種可能一個成品有問題會不會是優秀導演他做出來成品沒問題那你說成品沒問題成品沒問題那是不是你驗收的時候是怎麼驗收的是不是有放水還是說成品很優秀你沒有好好的經營沒有好好的宣傳所以我的問題是部長是哪一個單位驗收\n\n08:02.307 --> 08:27.560\n那驗收的報告包含你剛剛說的不只是網路的成果還有包含脫波這些相關的成效我想問說驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會我想我們其實之前在我們包括審計的一些報告我們其實都有提供給都有提供給立法院的然後再來剛剛說為什麼連續三年度還可以拿到開口契約然後我想就我所知因為當時不是我主政\n\n08:28.800 --> 08:47.765\n就我所知是因為這位導演第一個他真的在廣告界裡面素有聲譽而且他的拍攝的成果的品質都做到很多的好評就我知道是這樣所以因為這樣子那所以只要說他素有聲譽他來拍就可以輕鬆得標是這樣子嗎我不知道\n\n08:48.525 --> 09:17.055\n那所以我想要問的就是我不知道什麼輕不輕鬆但是就我知道之所以他拿到所以部長我想請問一下他的確是業界非常非常知名而且他的工作的成果也很好的這個部長我還是想要回到剛剛講的那到底是誰簽合的你們到底部內知不知道然後當初你們簽的剛剛前面委員也有講到他本來應該要履約的是35部影片兩場記者會但是最後呢只有一部影片一場記者會\n\n09:17.995 --> 09:41.287\n那這個部分到底是誰驗收所以第一個問題各位說明其實現在有點誤會35市那個市並不是指一市就是一部影片不是這個意思你可以看很多的開口卻並不是市代表的是一個計價單位那是多少一個計價單位大概是19萬多吧大概19萬4千多等一下部長那我還是你回到我的問題喔\n\n09:42.847 --> 09:58.637\n這個細節我剛才不是問你說一試多少我是要問說那是誰驗收的因為你剛才說35部影片那不是35部影片35試那我想請問到底是誰驗收所以你認為他得到這些金額他目前繳交的成果是完全合理的跟委員說明我們正是\n\n09:59.957 --> 10:23.438\n那為什麼你剛剛又要說你們有回去要懲處相關的在前面的委員在問的時候我跟廖委員說明我是說你剛才問我說這個導演這個導演他真的在業界是素有聲譽的那他拍出來的這三支影片的確也得獎很多這是事實他的確得獎很多但是這個開口契約在執行面的做法我們認為我到部裡面以後\n\n10:24.406 --> 10:52.640\n我認為是可以有更好的執行的方式的那請問是誰去簽的是誰核准這個開口契約那你什麼時候可以給本席辦公室跟委員會我們可能回去來看一下相關的資料但是我要說的事情是說我們其實已經把相關的開口契約停下來檢討了所以我再進來問一下請問部長現在還有其他的沒選是用開口契約的嗎今年是沒有了沒有了你剛剛是說年初還有你是先暫停\n\n10:53.900 --> 11:16.175\n我去年底去年底在114年的開口契約的標案我就把它給廢標停下來到現在都還是停的我們都停下來檢討了所以這個部分現在都不會再用開口契約嗎不是我講的不是未來不會是我們在檢討在美宣上面還需要嗎讓我說明我們認為在開口契約的使用上面\n\n11:17.156 --> 11:32.598\n未來可能不適合再把影片或者是活動放到因為影片跟活動其實他比較沒有一個公定的價格所以可能會造成大家比較多在理解上面或者是包括在驗收上面比較就像審計部說的那樣\n\n11:33.800 --> 11:51.193\n所以這是為什麼我們做出檢討以後我們就把標案給停下來那我們未來接下來就算要用開口契約也會把這幾個項目從開口契約的範圍拿出來我認為這樣子的情況是非常的有疑義的這中間到底有沒有圖利問題是不是應該要請部長請政風移送檢調進行刑事調查\n\n11:52.654 --> 12:14.963\n跟文說明現在這個我們在救安基金的支用的問題上面其實檢調都一直是有立案在調查所以有包含這個案子嗎是也有全部的資料全部都有配合檢調調查是好那到時候再把剛剛我們我剛剛本席提的就是說到底是誰核准這些開口契約用這種沒沒宣的費用的方式到時候給本席和委員會辦個報告好不好我們回去\n\n12:15.063 --> 12:39.506\n再看一下相關的事再來就是這個開口契約使用我們是徹底的檢討中的再來再問一下接下來是針對我們今天的主題巴士量表針對這個部分當初勞動部一直在修法前到現在都說會有10萬的人申請會衝擊重症家庭那我想要請問一下部長第一週到底是申請的多少人那到8月17日截止到底有多少人申請\n\n12:40.667 --> 12:56.767\n我們現在看到的數據第一週確實是比較少那第二週就是第一週的兩倍比較少是多少應該是四百多四百多四五百四五百四百多四五百然後第二週是以前就是第一週的兩倍那我想要請所以到八月十七為止總共是多少現在是1450左右1450\n\n12:59.190 --> 13:25.518\n那所以兩週下來大約1450一個月大約是可能不到3000件2800件2900件左右那我會說現在啦我會說目前這樣推估我當然知道接下來你很難預估未來的狀況我們現在比較難急下去預估未來一定他的趨勢的走向那我想要請教一下因為確實這個趨勢在12週來說是上升的那80歲以上跟70歲以上的這個癌症患者\n\n13:26.218 --> 13:29.934\n就是可以符合申請條件的目前有申請並通過的又是幾件\n\n13:32.626 --> 13:56.207\n時間點都還沒有辦法他現在都還在求財登記的階段他現在是在求財接濟後面才會取得這個求財的證明那後面才是招募許可所以部長其實我想要講的事情是其實今天的報告你完全沒有提到這些相關的數字喔今天你們提供的報告只有在質詢的時候你才把剛剛的數字講出來所以我希望這個部分應該是要用\n\n13:57.128 --> 14:20.303\n科學務實理性的方式去看數字的變化而不是一直喊這種狼來了喔有10萬多人過去立法就是用這種政治性的語言我覺得現在既然政策要上路了我們就是務實的面對所以第一週你說400多人第二週是1000人所以總共目前為止17號其實17號是1450人喔那我想要講的事情是其實在實務上喔\n\n14:21.738 --> 14:44.440\n目前也有人說地方上就是說你有資格申請但是在申請程序上你剛說前面先7天登記嘛在這個國內的求財7天先求財7天沒有然後才會去進一步的審查對不對然後在審查上面審查會上面審查員這個是這個民眾地方民眾的反應就是說也有可能會有技術性的阻擋不會\n\n14:45.501 --> 15:03.135\n不會所以就是只要過了就會重開我跟委員說明其實對於輕症的來說就是按照過去過去怎麼做現在就怎麼做輕症的部分我們做的是把重症做優先可是我們不會去阻擋也不會去卡輕症的好那我想要說的是包含台南的就業服務工會的這個理事長\n\n15:03.996 --> 15:18.942\n他是有提到在報道上面有提到他就說假設第一年這個其實只有申請他說以目前他們的推估這是業界的推估不是我的推估他說以目前這樣看起來前面的這些數字第一年可能申請的就是2萬到3萬人\n\n15:20.563 --> 15:40.699\n那本席是想問說那具體而言這部分補得足嗎然後再來是因為本來年初通過這個法案你有大概7個月的準備期嗎那這個部分你們究竟成果如何因為你擔心是來源不足或是移工看護的量能不足那你也多了7個月的時間我想請問你補得上這個\n\n15:42.185 --> 16:08.076\n目前的進度是怎麼樣跟文說明在去年底通過然後1月20號總統公告後我們馬上就找四個移工的來源國在商議要增加這個引進的量我們馬上就跟他們討論了部長我不是要問你過程我想問結果就是說成果是什麼因為當初一通過你說需要給勞動部時間去消化嘛\n\n16:08.536 --> 16:35.475\n那我只是想問說因為你看我們8月1號上路目前為止是1450好那我們假設預估啦假設預估用所謂業界的標準來看假設一年是兩到三萬人那想要請問這個部分勞動部準備的怎麼樣過去七個月成果如何然後未來是不是可以就是這個來源訓練因為你剛剛有說其實你剛剛部長也有說到目前的來源國他可能是也有也有足夠的量可是你也要兼顧訓練的品質嘛對不對\n\n16:38.077 --> 17:01.174\n所以看起來我都不敢用足夠這兩個字但我們會盡量的跟他協商增加所以沒有換言之其實重點問題到底在哪是不是訓練的量能是嗎我跟委員說明其實這七個月左右的時間我們做了幾件事情第一個剛才跟來源母國來協商增加第二個我們也建立了輕重分流重症優先的\n\n17:03.481 --> 17:20.283\n這個機制審查流程這跟很謝謝衛福部一起協助第三個我把讓委員讓我說我們也擴編了預算包括擴編了人力來補充包括這個照管中心他可能所需要的人力包括我們自己需要審案件的人力\n\n17:21.044 --> 17:46.255\n所以經費跟人力我們也增加了這都是7個月左右的時間我們的配套包括這些人力也還要訓練喔這些增加的人力都還要訓練這就是在這7個月裡面我們在進行的事情部長好那我在這裡說謝謝感謝勞動部的所有同仁這個大家辛苦了那也感謝大家因為其實這個是一個在民間是一個德政但是我還是想要問我們務實的討論嘛我剛剛說了那個就業服務\n\n17:50.036 --> 18:18.118\n那個同業工會這個台南理事長今天報導寫他說如果以目前的量來看預計可能是2萬到3萬人一年那我就只是剛剛一個簡單的問題就是說面對這樣的狀況假設是2到3萬的需求量請問現在勞動部過去7個月你剛剛做的那些可能都是方法或者是你有做了哪些努力我只是想問說那你成果是怎麼樣你目前估計起來這2萬到3萬人你有沒有辦法消化\n\n18:19.906 --> 18:47.161\n我想我們還是要真的還是要努力啦請問有沒有相關的數字給本席啊就是說你過去7個月你剛剛說你做了這麼多的努力好那我想要請問那你這7個月你有多了多少的移工看護因為這基本上是供需問題嘛不是移工看護不是從不是這7個月移工看護是要到8月1號才開始進來所以那你預估你過去的努力可以增加有沒有辦法消化我剛剛意思也是這樣就是說你未來\n\n18:48.752 --> 19:16.894\n我剛剛再次講他們預估的數據打這是一年兩到三萬人多這個需求的申請那想要請問勞動部請就我的問題就是說你過去七個月的準備你認為接下來這一年你有沒有辦法提供這樣子的量我們會全力以赴啦我們相關的準備我們會全力以赴部長有沒有預估的數字不能就是只有講全力以赴我一直想要表達就是說數據在這裡那你大概有沒有辦法跟委員說明包括我們照\n\n19:18.515 --> 19:35.286\n像我們有補助衛福部的這個照管中心的一些人力包括我們部裡面審查的人力其實這些人力補助的多跟少我們也一直在密切的看那就是看這個案源的量增加多少\n\n19:36.147 --> 20:02.562\n按援的量增加多少大家現在的確有各種預估有些人預估比較高一點有些人比較預估低一點但從勞動部的角度我們應該要把狀況設想的比較如果人比較多我們可以因應的話那就相對有比較好的條件來去面對人比較少的狀況我覺得是這樣就是說勞動部應該要做好所謂的高預估中預估然後可能低預估那你就是剛剛你說的勞動部要\n\n20:04.584 --> 20:24.717\n這個嚴謹的面對嘛所以假設是高預估那你究竟現在的量能可以符合是什麼到底是可以符合你的低預估呢還是中預估還是你高預估現在做不到那我們就要去想那怎麼解決嘛我要跟委員說明的確我們現在在收到的一些案子包括來城前案子裡面也包括比方說會有一些他的看護的僱主他在表達說\n\n20:26.259 --> 20:44.275\n因為這個修法之後所以部長不好意思我是覺得我們不要一直用這種個案式的就要有人來反映這個有人來反映那個我其實想要表達就是這樣那實況是我剛剛一直問你究竟你的量能的數據究竟你量能的數據可不可以符合我們會盡力\n\n20:47.008 --> 21:09.211\n好部長因為時間我知道我也過很久可是我還是想要告訴大家其實可以看到我剛問的問題是勞動部是沒有具體的數據我知道勞動部的大家都很辛苦但是我是希望說一樣務實理性面對所以剛剛說的都是數字現在已經上路了8月17號1450人申請好那究竟一年推估大約多少我剛也說了\n\n21:10.312 --> 21:31.851\n這個業界說可能是一年兩到三萬那究竟勞動部假設兩到三萬好了是中推估好那你可不可以符合你目前過去七個月所做的努力你剛講了你做了很多的努力好我們都沒有要抹殺但是究竟你可不可以補上一年兩三萬的這個缺口我們會盡力全力以赴這是我其實本席重要的問題我們會盡力全力以赴但我們不能夠把話講得太滿\n\n21:33.352 --> 21:58.217\n我沒有要你講太滿我們也是務實理性嘛我剛剛就說了低推估中推估高推估那你究竟目前為止你過去7個月的努力你究竟是可以做到低推估中推估還是高推估部長你剛剛都沒有回答我你只有回答我全力以赴我知道大家都很辛苦但委員說明我沒有辦法把話講得太滿那因為這裡面的確還有不確定性那沒有部長那你可不可以告訴我你不能講太滿那你可不可以告訴我你的低推估中推估高推估你可以滿足的是什麼\n\n21:59.057 --> 22:19.927\n其實我剛剛一直要問的是這個這是我為什麼要講剛剛的例子因為你要講滿足這個滿足這個話要這是這個不容易我說數量我說數量我說為什麼不容易讓我說明為什麼不容易因為其實現在是有很多的這些聘僱看護的長者他確實現在遇到看護會跟他說我真的想轉出了\n\n22:21.772 --> 22:44.938\n真的表達他想轉出或者是他要求增加薪資這個事情其實對於很多聘僱的家庭來說對他來講也是一個新的情境的衝擊部長所以剛剛我提到的就是你的供應也是修法以後產生的狀況你過去7個月準備供應來源有沒有辦法補上就可以彌補你剛剛說的狀況因為如果你的供應來源是足夠的他可能就沒有這個所謂的狀況發生\n\n22:47.658 --> 23:07.623\n但是這確實還是有母國的因素他不全然控制在我們手上好謝謝今天在場很多官員我相信剛剛我的問題應該是蠻單純的就是說這個供應究竟足不足夠那我希望的是部長請大家一起共同務實理性面對現在既然有數字了那究竟數字預估多少以及你可不可以趕上請\n\n23:08.863 --> 23:30.637\n那個貴部可以提供本席報告好不好針對我剛剛的問題因為你剛剛沒有辦法回答我好那我希望可以提供給本席跟委員會你們究竟可以提在這一年過去七個月準備接接下來一年可能會遇到的量能你究竟準備了多少好這個我覺得是比較務實的我們把我們準備的量能可以好不好說明好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝廖委員還有部長\n\n","segments":[{"start":8.619,"end":25.301,"text":"謝謝主席有請洪部長請洪部長六點早部長早部長我想要先針對今天主要兩個大題那第一題呢我想要先針對救安基金"},{"start":26.178,"end":47.734,"text":"那救安基金被披露2022年到2024年之間補助電視劇零日攻擊導演的羅景仁團隊獲得救安基金2872萬元的補助那我要先講這個前幾天有這個新聞出來說勞動部好像是問A答B你說你們沒有補助這個零日攻擊但是其實他們在講就是說補助這個團隊"},{"start":49.215,"end":58.748,"text":"好那這個部分還是用開口契約來發包所以要請部長注意我剛剛講過我們不是說針對補助臨日公集這個隱疾而是針對"},{"start":60.339,"end":88.611,"text":"救安基金來補助這個羅導演拍勞動部影片的部分在程序上提出很嚴正的質疑開口契約就台北市政府訂定的這個採購注意事項解釋是用於契約所列的履約期間數量不定由機關依實際需要隨時通知廠商履約的採購那我想相信不管是中央或地方這個大概都是類似的概念和規定"},{"start":89.651,"end":109.621,"text":"所以換句話說這是一個可以依照政府機關自身的需求做出彈性的採購但是針對於得標廠商而言他是不用列出相關的計劃內容或者成效目標的空白支票那最終也可能導致行政機關勞動部驗收的時候無法核驗的情況"},{"start":110.481,"end":129.439,"text":"那我想這也都是審計部年度報告跟救安基金專門審計報告一而再再而三點出來的內容包含之前有提到淨什麼前進的光相關的音樂會濫用的部分所以我想要請問一下部長這個媒體宣傳的經費跟使用方式是不是由部本部統籌是嗎"},{"start":131.821,"end":148.664,"text":"先跟廖委員說明第一個我並不是問A答B因為就像委員看到當天的媒體的下標左邊這個標所以因為這個媒體的標題很多人在讀到這個標的時候都來問我們 都來問勞動部為什麼勞動部補助零日工級"},{"start":149.605,"end":151.929,"text":"很多人來問我們這個問題但是這個標讓很多人在讀起來的時候都來問我們說為什麼所以我們才要說勞動部沒有補助臨時工級因為當天真的很多人來問我們這個問題所以我才要講這是第一點"},{"start":164.967,"end":186.829,"text":"那第二點剛剛委員在問到開口契約的問題的時候的確我們後來在去年底做了開口契約的部長我想先請問第一個問題我剛說是不是這個沒宣的費用和經費和使用都是有不本不統籌是吧那我想要先再問一下那當初這個是誰當初是不本不統籌對那是誰簽准同意這個開口合約的方式針對這個案子"},{"start":190.305,"end":217.193,"text":"我想我還是必須說就是針對當初的這個開口契約的使用那我們其實在去年年底我們就做出了檢討部長你先回答我嘛當初這個這個導演他相關的案子他的開口合約和這樣子的媒體採購 媒宣採購的部分是誰同意使用這個開口合約方式我現在手上可能沒有這個資料你沒有但你知道嗎我現在手上沒有這個資料那你們知道嗎你們有去調查嗎"},{"start":218.547,"end":233.917,"text":"有嗎我跟委員說明現在這些相關的救安基金的案子你先不要用說在檢調那裡因為看起來你們也搞不清楚狀況我只是想問說因為剛剛部長也有說你們有這個要做懲處啊或是內部要去做檢調那到底是誰你們知道嗎"},{"start":235.098,"end":254.718,"text":"不知道的話怎麼懲處 怎麼去做我們做了檢討了檢討你是叫制度面嘛我們對於接下來開口契約的使用方式包括適用的範圍我們做出了檢討我們認為比方說像是一些影片我們就認為不太適合再放在這個政策宣導的開口契約裡面"},{"start":255.879,"end":278.59,"text":"除了影片之外的沒選咧還是有很多開口紀約嗎除了影片我們認為一些影片包括一些活動的辦理不適合放在開口紀約部長因為你還是沒有回答我問題好我再問下一題我等一下再回來問你這一題純粹看補助的成效其實也非常的糟糕在2022年的時候拍攝勞動節主題影片製作阿仿洗衣店他單支影片補助是1069就是1069萬按讚數僅488"},{"start":284.153,"end":304.772,"text":"那2023年呢 這個羅導演又接續接了勞動節的主題影片紙紮片補助971萬元 按讚數是1761那2024年呢 又補助了 又拍攝了第三支影片勞動萬歲搬家片 花了831萬 按讚數只有202個"},{"start":308.695,"end":320.593,"text":"那平均一個站最便宜是6000塊最貴4.1萬我想這樣的成果是民眾百姓是看不下去的是沒辦法看下去這也是為什麼我們要去"},{"start":321.67,"end":344.058,"text":"看緊荷包所以包含部長這個羅導演在臉書說他拍攝超過1500隻廣告客戶來自全球世界各地是純粹的商業廣告導演許多的作品在好像各地都有獲獎那我想要問請問為什麼拍出的成果這麼糟糕那只有幾種可能嗎第一個"},{"start":344.918,"end":362.085,"text":"拍攝的成品有問題商業案他所謂號稱優秀的導演那面對公部門的標案是不是隨便亂做這是第一個可能第二可能勞動部在驗收的時候放水成品有瑕疵卻不知道第三個可能是成品好可能很優秀但勞動部拿到成品後卻不積極宣傳"},{"start":363.866,"end":386.363,"text":"那我想不管是哪一種都是讓人沒有辦法接受的所以部長我想問到底是哪一個單位負責驗收然後驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會成效這麼差成效這麼差你可以看到成效這麼糟糕這麼糟糕的成效為什麼可以連續三年拿到標案跟委員說明"},{"start":387.335,"end":409.529,"text":"第一個這個成效有點難只看一個單一的平台上面這些按讚數單一平台嗎那如果所有平台加起來多少我先跟委員說明這三支這三支影片都有獲得4A的創意獎其中一支甚至還入圍這個坎城創意獎我想這入圍這些獎項跟得這個獎都不是容易的事情這三支影片"},{"start":409.949,"end":427.055,"text":"所以你覺得是重點是在於宣傳還是是我要跟委員說的是說第一個這並不是三支很糟糕的影片不是像委員剛才口中說很糟糕的影片我說成效啊他得到很多的獎項那其實他的品質也是好的"},{"start":427.526,"end":455.091,"text":"那就成效或者是點閱數來說的話也不能只是看單一一個平台也包括他脫波的次數都包括在這裡面所以我要跟文說明說當然這個這位導演他在廣告界有他素有聲譽的地方來部長我跟你說第一個我剛有說成果很差有三種可能我也不是完全就是說這個得獎還是怎麼樣的成效"},{"start":455.791,"end":481.887,"text":"我是問說他的這個宣傳的成果是很差的不然你當初你拍這個片不是重點就是要宣傳嗎好那成果差我剛有說三種可能一個成品有問題會不會是優秀導演他做出來成品沒問題那你說成品沒問題成品沒問題那是不是你驗收的時候是怎麼驗收的是不是有放水還是說成品很優秀你沒有好好的經營沒有好好的宣傳所以我的問題是部長是哪一個單位驗收"},{"start":482.307,"end":507.56,"text":"那驗收的報告包含你剛剛說的不只是網路的成果還有包含脫波這些相關的成效我想問說驗收報告可不可以提供給本席跟委員會我想我們其實之前在我們包括審計的一些報告我們其實都有提供給都有提供給立法院的然後再來剛剛說為什麼連續三年度還可以拿到開口契約然後我想就我所知因為當時不是我主政"},{"start":508.8,"end":527.765,"text":"就我所知是因為這位導演第一個他真的在廣告界裡面素有聲譽而且他的拍攝的成果的品質都做到很多的好評就我知道是這樣所以因為這樣子那所以只要說他素有聲譽他來拍就可以輕鬆得標是這樣子嗎我不知道"},{"start":528.525,"end":557.055,"text":"那所以我想要問的就是我不知道什麼輕不輕鬆但是就我知道之所以他拿到所以部長我想請問一下他的確是業界非常非常知名而且他的工作的成果也很好的這個部長我還是想要回到剛剛講的那到底是誰簽合的你們到底部內知不知道然後當初你們簽的剛剛前面委員也有講到他本來應該要履約的是35部影片兩場記者會但是最後呢只有一部影片一場記者會"},{"start":557.995,"end":581.287,"text":"那這個部分到底是誰驗收所以第一個問題 各位說明其實現在有點誤會35市那個市並不是指一市就是一部影片不是這個意思你可以看很多的開口卻並不是市代表的是一個計價單位那是多少一個計價單位大概是19萬多吧大概19萬4千多等一下部長那我還是你回到我的問題喔"},{"start":582.847,"end":598.637,"text":"這個細節我剛才不是問你說一試多少我是要問說那是誰驗收的因為你剛才說35部影片那不是35部影片35試那我想請問到底是誰驗收所以你認為他得到這些金額他目前繳交的成果是完全合理的跟委員說明我們正是"},{"start":599.957,"end":623.438,"text":"那為什麼你剛剛又要說你們有回去要懲處相關的在前面的委員在問的時候我跟廖委員說明我是說你剛才問我說這個導演這個導演他真的在業界是素有聲譽的那他拍出來的這三支影片的確也得獎很多這是事實他的確得獎很多但是這個開口契約在執行面的做法我們認為我到部裡面以後"},{"start":624.406,"end":652.64,"text":"我認為是可以有更好的執行的方式的那請問是誰去簽的是誰核准這個開口契約那你什麼時候可以給本席辦公室跟委員會我們可能回去來看一下相關的資料但是我要說的事情是說我們其實已經把相關的開口契約停下來檢討了所以我再進來問一下請問部長現在還有其他的沒選是用開口契約的嗎今年是沒有了沒有了你剛剛是說年初還有你是先暫停"},{"start":653.9,"end":676.175,"text":"我去年底去年底在114年的開口契約的標案我就把它給廢標停下來到現在都還是停的我們都停下來檢討了所以這個部分現在都不會再用開口契約嗎不是我講的不是未來不會是我們在檢討在美宣上面還需要嗎讓我說明我們認為在開口契約的使用上面"},{"start":677.156,"end":692.598,"text":"未來可能不適合再把影片或者是活動放到因為影片跟活動其實他比較沒有一個公定的價格所以可能會造成大家比較多在理解上面或者是包括在驗收上面比較就像審計部說的那樣"},{"start":693.8,"end":711.193,"text":"所以這是為什麼我們做出檢討以後我們就把標案給停下來那我們未來接下來就算要用開口契約也會把這幾個項目從開口契約的範圍拿出來我認為這樣子的情況是非常的有疑義的這中間到底有沒有圖利問題是不是應該要請部長請政風移送檢調進行刑事調查"},{"start":712.654,"end":734.963,"text":"跟文說明現在這個我們在救安基金的支用的問題上面其實檢調都一直是有立案在調查所以有包含這個案子嗎是也有全部的資料全部都有配合檢調調查是好那到時候再把剛剛我們我剛剛本席提的就是說到底是誰核准這些開口契約用這種沒沒宣的費用的方式到時候給本席和委員會辦個報告好不好我們回去"},{"start":735.063,"end":759.506,"text":"再看一下相關的事再來就是這個開口契約使用我們是徹底的檢討中的再來再問一下接下來是針對我們今天的主題巴士量表針對這個部分當初勞動部一直在修法前到現在都說會有10萬的人申請會衝擊重症家庭那我想要請問一下部長第一週到底是申請的多少人那到8月17日截止到底有多少人申請"},{"start":760.667,"end":776.767,"text":"我們現在看到的數據 第一週確實是比較少那第二週就是第一週的兩倍 比較少是多少應該是四百多 四百多四五百 四五百 四百多 四五百然後第二週是 以前就是第一週的兩倍那我想要請 所以到八月十七為止總共是多少現在是1450左右 1450"},{"start":779.19,"end":805.518,"text":"那所以兩週下來大約1450一個月大約是可能不到3000件2800件2900件左右那我會說現在啦我會說目前這樣推估我當然知道接下來你很難預估未來的狀況我們現在比較難急下去預估未來一定他的趨勢的走向那我想要請教一下因為確實這個趨勢在12週來說是上升的那80歲以上跟70歲以上的這個癌症患者"},{"start":806.218,"end":809.934,"text":"就是可以符合申請條件的目前有申請並通過的又是幾件"},{"start":812.626,"end":836.207,"text":"時間點都還沒有辦法 他現在都還在求財登記的階段他現在是在求財接濟 後面才會取得這個求財的證明那後面才是招募許可所以部長其實我想要講的事情是其實今天的報告你完全沒有提到這些相關的數字喔今天你們提供的報告只有在質詢的時候你才把剛剛的數字講出來所以我希望這個部分應該是要用"},{"start":837.128,"end":860.303,"text":"科學務實理性的方式去看數字的變化而不是一直喊這種狼來了喔有10萬多人過去立法就是用這種政治性的語言我覺得現在既然政策要上路了我們就是務實的面對所以第一週你說400多人第二週是1000人所以總共目前為止17號其實17號是1450人喔那我想要講的事情是其實在實務上喔"},{"start":861.738,"end":884.44,"text":"目前也有人說地方上就是說你有資格申請但是在申請程序上你剛說前面先7天登記嘛在這個國內的求財7天先求財7天沒有然後才會去進一步的審查對不對然後在審查上面審查會上面審查員這個是這個民眾地方民眾的反應就是說也有可能會有技術性的阻擋不會"},{"start":885.501,"end":903.135,"text":"不會所以就是只要過了就會重開我跟委員說明其實對於輕症的來說就是按照過去過去怎麼做現在就怎麼做輕症的部分我們做的是把重症做優先可是我們不會去阻擋也不會去卡輕症的好那我想要說的是包含台南的就業服務工會的這個理事長"},{"start":903.996,"end":918.942,"text":"他是有提到在報道上面有提到他就說假設第一年這個其實只有申請他說以目前他們的推估這是業界的推估不是我的推估他說以目前這樣看起來前面的這些數字第一年可能申請的就是2萬到3萬人"},{"start":920.563,"end":940.699,"text":"那本席是想問說那具體而言這部分補得足嗎然後再來是因為本來年初通過這個法案你有大概7個月的準備期嗎那這個部分你們究竟成果如何因為你擔心是來源不足或是移工看護的量能不足那你也多了7個月的時間我想請問你補得上這個"},{"start":942.185,"end":968.076,"text":"目前的進度是怎麼樣跟文說明在去年底通過然後1月20號總統公告後我們馬上就找四個移工的來源國在商議要增加這個引進的量我們馬上就跟他們討論了部長我不是要問你過程我想問結果就是說成果是什麼因為當初一通過你說需要給勞動部時間去消化嘛"},{"start":968.536,"end":995.475,"text":"那我只是想問說因為你看我們8月1號上路目前為止是1450好那我們假設預估啦假設預估用所謂業界的標準來看假設一年是兩到三萬人那想要請問這個部分勞動部準備的怎麼樣過去七個月成果如何然後未來是不是可以就是這個來源訓練因為你剛剛有說其實你剛剛部長也有說到目前的來源國他可能是也有也有足夠的量可是你也要兼顧訓練的品質嘛對不對"},{"start":998.077,"end":1021.174,"text":"所以看起來我都不敢用足夠這兩個字但我們會盡量的跟他協商增加所以沒有換言之其實重點問題到底在哪是不是訓練的量能是嗎我跟委員說明其實這七個月左右的時間我們做了幾件事情第一個剛才跟來源母國來協商增加第二個我們也建立了輕重分流重症優先的"},{"start":1023.481,"end":1040.283,"text":"這個機制審查流程這跟很謝謝衛福部一起協助第三個我把讓委員讓我說我們也擴編了預算包括擴編了人力來補充包括這個照管中心他可能所需要的人力包括我們自己需要審案件的人力"},{"start":1041.044,"end":1066.255,"text":"所以經費跟人力我們也增加了這都是7個月左右的時間我們的配套包括這些人力也還要訓練喔這些增加的人力都還要訓練這就是在這7個月裡面我們在進行的事情部長好那我在這裡說謝謝感謝勞動部的所有同仁這個大家辛苦了那也感謝大家因為其實這個是一個在民間是一個德政但是我還是想要問我們務實的討論嘛我剛剛說了那個就業服務"},{"start":1070.036,"end":1098.118,"text":"那個同業工會這個台南理事長今天報導寫他說如果以目前的量來看預計可能是2萬到3萬人一年那我就只是剛剛一個簡單的問題就是說面對這樣的狀況假設是2到3萬的需求量請問現在勞動部過去7個月你剛剛做的那些可能都是方法或者是你有做了哪些努力我只是想問說那你成果是怎麼樣你目前估計起來這2萬到3萬人你有沒有辦法消化"},{"start":1099.906,"end":1127.161,"text":"我想我們還是要真的還是要努力啦請問有沒有相關的數字給本席啊就是說你過去7個月你剛剛說你做了這麼多的努力好那我想要請問那你這7個月你有多了多少的移工看護因為這基本上是供需問題嘛不是移工看護不是從不是這7個月移工看護是要到8月1號才開始進來所以那你預估你過去的努力可以增加有沒有辦法消化我剛剛意思也是這樣就是說你未來"},{"start":1128.752,"end":1156.894,"text":"我剛剛再次講他們預估的數據打這是一年兩到三萬人多這個需求的申請那想要請問勞動部請就我的問題就是說你過去七個月的準備你認為接下來這一年你有沒有辦法提供這樣子的量我們會全力以赴啦我們相關的準備我們會全力以赴 部長有沒有預估的數字 不能就是只有講全力以赴我一直想要表達就是說數據在這裡那你大概 有沒有辦法 跟委員說明包括我們照"},{"start":1158.515,"end":1175.286,"text":"像我們有補助衛福部的這個照管中心的一些人力包括我們部裡面審查的人力其實這些人力補助的多跟少我們也一直在密切的看那就是看這個案源的量增加多少"},{"start":1176.147,"end":1202.562,"text":"按援的量增加多少大家現在的確有各種預估有些人預估比較高一點有些人比較預估低一點但從勞動部的角度我們應該要把狀況設想的比較如果人比較多我們可以因應的話那就相對有比較好的條件來去面對人比較少的狀況我覺得是這樣就是說勞動部應該要做好所謂的高預估中預估然後可能低預估那你就是剛剛你說的勞動部要"},{"start":1204.584,"end":1224.717,"text":"這個嚴謹的面對嘛所以假設是高預估那你究竟現在的量能可以符合是什麼到底是可以符合你的低預估呢還是中預估還是你高預估現在做不到那我們就要去想那怎麼解決嘛我要跟委員說明的確我們現在在收到的一些案子包括來城前案子裡面也包括比方說會有一些他的看護的僱主他在表達說"},{"start":1226.259,"end":1244.275,"text":"因為這個修法之後所以部長不好意思我是覺得我們不要一直用這種個案式的就要有人來反映這個有人來反映那個我其實想要表達就是這樣那實況是我剛剛一直問你究竟你的量能的數據究竟你量能的數據可不可以符合我們會盡力"},{"start":1247.008,"end":1269.211,"text":"好部長因為時間我知道我也過很久可是我還是想要告訴大家其實可以看到我剛問的問題是勞動部是沒有具體的數據我知道勞動部的大家都很辛苦但是我是希望說一樣務實理性面對所以剛剛說的都是數字現在已經上路了8月17號1450人申請好那究竟一年推估大約多少我剛也說了"},{"start":1270.312,"end":1291.851,"text":"這個業界說可能是一年兩到三萬那究竟勞動部假設兩到三萬好了是中推估好那你可不可以符合你目前過去七個月所做的努力你剛講了你做了很多的努力好我們都沒有要抹殺但是究竟你可不可以補上一年兩三萬的這個缺口我們會盡力全力以赴這是我其實本席重要的問題我們會盡力全力以赴但我們不能夠把話講得太滿"},{"start":1293.352,"end":1318.217,"text":"我沒有要你講太滿我們也是務實理性嘛我剛剛就說了低推估中推估高推估那你究竟目前為止你過去7個月的努力你究竟是可以做到低推估中推估還是高推估部長你剛剛都沒有回答我你只有回答我全力以赴我知道大家都很辛苦但委員說明我沒有辦法把話講得太滿那因為這裡面的確還有不確定性那沒有部長那你可不可以告訴我你不能講太滿那你可不可以告訴我你的低推估中推估高推估你可以滿足的是什麼"},{"start":1319.057,"end":1339.927,"text":"其實我剛剛一直要問的是這個這是我為什麼要講剛剛的例子因為你要講滿足這個滿足這個話要這是這個不容易我說數量我說數量我說為什麼不容易讓我說明為什麼不容易因為其實現在是有很多的這些聘僱看護的長者他確實現在遇到看護會跟他說我真的想轉出了"},{"start":1341.772,"end":1364.938,"text":"真的表達他想轉出或者是他要求增加薪資這個事情其實對於很多聘僱的家庭來說對他來講也是一個新的情境的衝擊部長所以剛剛我提到的就是你的供應也是修法以後產生的狀況你過去7個月準備供應來源有沒有辦法補上就可以彌補你剛剛說的狀況因為如果你的供應來源是足夠的他可能就沒有這個所謂的狀況發生"},{"start":1367.658,"end":1387.623,"text":"但是這確實還是有母國的因素他不全然控制在我們手上好謝謝今天在場很多官員我相信剛剛我的問題應該是蠻單純的就是說這個供應究竟足不足夠那我希望的是部長請大家一起共同務實理性面對現在既然有數字了那究竟數字預估多少以及你可不可以趕上請"},{"start":1388.863,"end":1410.637,"text":"那個貴部可以提供本席報告好不好針對我剛剛的問題因為你剛剛沒有辦法回答我好那我希望可以提供給本席跟委員會你們究竟可以提在這一年過去七個月準備接接下來一年可能會遇到的量能你究竟準備了多少好這個我覺得是比較務實的我們把我們準備的量能可以好不好說明好謝謝謝謝謝謝謝謝廖委員還有部長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":481,"blocks":[["廖委員偉翔：（10時31分）謝謝主席，有請洪部長。"],["主席：請洪部長。"],["洪部長申翰：廖委員早。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長早。部長，今天主要兩個大題，第一題，我想要先針對就安基金。就安基金被披露2022年到2024年之間，補助電視劇「零日攻擊」導演的羅景壬團隊，獲得就安基金2,872萬元的補助。我要先講前幾天有這個新聞出來說勞動部好像是問A答B，你說你們沒有補助「零日攻擊」，但是其實他們在講的就是補助這個團隊，這個部分還是用開口契約發包。所以要請部長注意，我剛剛有講過，我們不是針對補助「零日攻擊」這個影集，而是針對就安基金補助羅導演拍勞動部影片的部分，在程序上提出很嚴正的質疑。開口契約就臺北市政府訂定的採購注意事項解釋，是適用於契約所列的履約期間數量不定，由機關依實際需要隨時通知廠商履約的採購。我相信不管是中央或地方，這個大概都是類似的概念和規定，所以換句話說，這是一個可以依照政府機關自身需求做出彈性的採購，但是對於得標廠商而言，它是不用列出相關計畫內容或者成效目標的空白支票，最終也可能導致行政機關勞動部驗收的時候無法核驗的情況，我想這也都是審計部年度報告及就安基金專門審計報告一而再、再而三點出來的內容，包含之前有提到「敬！前進的光」相關音樂會濫用的部分。所以我想要請問一下部長，媒體宣傳的經費跟使用方式是不是由部本部統籌？"],["洪部長申翰：先跟廖委員說明，第一個，我並不是問A答B，就像委員看到當天媒體的下標，就像左邊這個標，因為很多人讀到媒體這個標題的時候都來問勞動部，說為什麼勞動部補助「零日攻擊」？很多人來問我們這個問題……"],["廖委員偉翔：但是它的標題寫得很清楚，「零日攻擊」導演還有……"],["洪部長申翰：但是這個標題讓很多人讀起來的時候，都來問我們說為什麼勞動部補助「零日攻擊」，所以我們才要說勞動部沒有補助「零日攻擊」，因為當天真的有很多人來問我們這個問題，所以我才要講清楚，這是第一點。第二點，剛剛委員問到開口契約問題的時候，的確我們在去年底做了開口契約的檢討……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我想先請問第一個問題，我剛剛說媒宣的經費和使用方式是不是由部本部統籌？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：那我再問一下，當初這個是誰……"],["洪部長申翰：當初是部本部統籌。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，針對這個案子，是誰簽准同意這個開口合約的方式？"],["洪部長申翰：我還是必須說針對當初開口契約的使用，其實我們在去年年底就做出了檢討……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你先回答我當初這個導演相關的案子，他的開口合約和媒宣採購的部分是誰同意使用這個開口契約的？"],["洪部長申翰：我手上沒有這些資料。"],["廖委員偉翔：你沒有，但你知道嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我現在手上沒有這些資料。"],["廖委員偉翔：那你們知道嗎？你們有去調查嗎？有嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我跟委員說明，現在這些就安基金相關的案子的確……"],["廖委員偉翔：你先不要說在檢調那裡，看起來你們也搞不清楚狀況，我只是想要問……因為剛剛部長也有說你們要懲處或是內部要檢討，那到底是誰你們知道嗎？不知道的話，怎麼懲處、怎麼去做？"],["洪部長申翰：我們做了檢討了。"],["廖委員偉翔：檢討是制度面，沒有針對這件事……"],["洪部長申翰：我們對於接下來開口契約的使用方式，包括適用的範圍做出了檢討，比方像一些影片，我們就認為不太適合再放在政策宣導的開口契約裡面。"],["廖委員偉翔：除了影片之外的媒宣呢？還是有很多開口契約嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我們認為一些影片包括一些活動的辦理，不適合放在開口契約……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，因為你還是沒有回答我的問題，我再問下一題，我等一下再回來問你這一題。純粹看補助的成效其實也非常糟糕，在2022年的時候，拍攝勞動節主題影片，製作「阿紡洗衣店」，單支影片補助1,069萬，按讚數僅488。2023年羅導演又接續接了勞動節的主題影片「紙紮篇」，補助971萬元，按讚數是1,761。2024年又補助拍攝第三支影片「勞動萬歲─搬家篇」，花了831萬，按讚數只有202個，平均一個讚最便宜的是6,000塊，最貴是4.1萬，我想這樣的成果百姓是沒辦法看下去的，這也就是為什麼我們要看緊荷包。包含羅導演在臉書說他拍攝超過1,500支廣告，客戶來自全球世界各地，是純粹的商業廣告導演，許多作品好像在各地都有獲獎。既然如此，我想問為什麼拍出的成果這麼糟糕？只有幾種可能：第一個，拍攝的成品有問題，號稱商業案的優秀導演，面對公部門的標案，是不是隨便亂做？這是第一個可能。第二個可能是勞動部在驗收的時候放水，成品有瑕疵卻不知道。第三個是成品可能很優秀，但勞動部拿到成品後卻不積極宣傳。我想不管是哪一種都是讓人沒有辦法接受的，所以我想問部長到底是哪一個單位負責驗收？驗收報告可不可以提供給本席及委員會？你可以看到成效這麼糟糕，這麼糟糕的成效為什麼可以連續三年拿到標案？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，第一個，成效有點難只看單一平臺上的按讚數……"],["廖委員偉翔：單一平臺嗎？如果所有平臺加起來是多少？"],["洪部長申翰：我先跟委員說明，這三支影片都有獲得4A的創意獎，其中一支甚至還入圍坎城創意獎，我想入圍這些獎項和得獎都不是容易的事情。這三支影片……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以你覺得重點在於宣傳還是……"],["洪部長申翰：我要跟委員說明，第一個，這並不是三支很糟糕的影片，不是像委員剛才口中所說很糟糕的影片……"],["廖委員偉翔：我說成效啊！"],["洪部長申翰：它得到很多獎項，其實它的品質也是好的，就成效……"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我剛剛說有三種可能嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：就成效或者點閱數來說的話，也不能只是看單一一個平臺，其實託播的次數也包括在這裡面，所以我要跟委員說明，當然這位導演在廣告界有他素有聲譽的地方……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，第一個，我剛剛有說成果很差有三種可能，我也不是完全說得獎還是怎麼樣的成效，我是問他宣傳的成果是很差的，當初拍這個片的重點不就是要宣傳嗎？成果差我剛剛說有三種可能，一個是成品有問題，會不會是優秀導演他做出來的成品有問題？你說成品沒問題，如果成品沒問題，那你驗收的時候是怎麼驗收的？是不是有放水？還是說成品很優秀，你沒有好好的宣傳？所以我的問題是，究竟是哪個單位驗收的？關於驗收的報告，包含你剛剛說的不只是網路的成果，還有包含託播相關的成效，我想問驗收報告可不可以提供給本席及委員會？"],["洪部長申翰：之前包括審計的一些報告，其實我們都有提供給立法院了。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來，剛剛提到為什麼連續三年度還可以拿到開口契約？"],["洪部長申翰：雖然當時不是我主政，但就我所知是因為這位導演他真的在廣告界裡面素有聲譽，而且他拍攝成果的品質都獲得很多好評，就我知道是這樣。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，還是請你回答我的問題，因為這樣子，所以只要素有聲譽他來拍就可以輕鬆得標，是這樣子嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我不知道什麼輕不輕鬆，但是就我所知，他之所以拿到這個標案，原因是因為他的確在業界非常非常知名，而且他的工作成果也是很好的……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我還是想要回到剛剛講的，那到底是誰簽核的？你們部內到底知不知道？至於當初你們簽的契約，剛剛前面委員也有講到，他本來應該要履約的是三十五部影片、兩場記者會，但最後卻只有一部影片、一場記者會，這個部分到底是誰驗收？所以第一個問題……"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實現在有點誤會，針對三十五式的「式」，並不是一式就是一部影片，不是這個意思，你可以看很多的開口契約……"],["廖委員偉翔：那是多少？"],["洪部長申翰：「式」代表的是一個計價單位……"],["廖委員偉翔：那是多少？"],["洪部長申翰：一個計價單位大概是十九萬四千多。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，你還是回到我的問題，關於這些細節，我剛才不是問你一式多少，我是要問……"],["洪部長申翰：因為你剛才說三十五部影片，其實並不是三十五部影片……"],["廖委員偉翔：好，是三十五式，那我想要請問到底是誰驗收的？所以你認為他得到這些金額，他目前繳交的成果是完全合理的？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我們正式在整體的……"],["廖委員偉翔：為什麼你剛剛說你們回去要懲處相關人員？當前面委員在問的時候。"],["洪部長申翰：我跟廖委員說明，你剛才問我這個導演，這個導演在業界真的是素有聲譽，他拍出來的這三支影片的確也得獎很多，這是事實，他的確得獎很多。但是這個開口契約在執行面的作法，我到部裡面以後，我認為可以有更好的執行方式……"],["廖委員偉翔：請問是誰核准這個開口契約？"],["洪部長申翰：現在我手邊沒有這個資料。"],["廖委員偉翔：你什麼時候可以給本席辦公室跟委員會？"],["洪部長申翰：我們回去之後可能要看一下相關的資料，但是我要說的事情是，我們其實已經把相關的開口契約停下來檢討了。"],["廖委員偉翔：我的時間有限，所以我再進一步問一下，請問部長，現在還有其他媒宣是用開口契約的嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：今年沒有了。"],["廖委員偉翔：沒有了？你剛剛是說年初還有，但是你們先暫停，請問有多少？"],["洪部長申翰：去年底針對114年開口契約的標案，我就把它廢標停下來，到現在都還是停的，我們都停下來檢討了。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以這個部分現在都不會再用開口契約了嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：我講的不是未來不會，而是我們在檢討……"],["廖委員偉翔：在媒宣上面還需要嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：委員，請讓我說明，我們認為在開口契約的使用上面，未來可能不適合再把影片或者是活動放到裡面，因為影片跟活動比較沒有一個公定的價格，所以可能會造成大家在理解上面或者是驗收上面會像審計部說的那樣，這就是為什麼我們做出檢討以後，就把標案給停下來。接下來就算要用開口契約，也會把這幾個項目從開口契約的範圍拿出來……"],["廖委員偉翔：我認為這次這樣的情況是非常有疑慮的，這中間到底有沒有圖利問題，部長是不是應該要請政風移送檢調進行刑事調查？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，現在我們在就安基金支用的問題上面，其實檢調都一直有立案在調查，而且全力配合。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以也包含這個案子嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：也有，全部的資料都有配合檢調調查？"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。到時候再把剛剛本席提的，就是到底是誰核准這些開口契約用這種媒宣費用的方式，給本席和委員會報告，好不好？"],["洪部長申翰：我們回去再看一下相關的資料。"],["廖委員偉翔：再來就是……"],["洪部長申翰：但是這個開口契約的使用，我們是澈底地檢討中的。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，接下來是針對今天的主題巴氏量表，當初勞動部在修法前一直到現在都說會有10萬人申請、衝擊重症家庭，我想要請問一下，第一週到底申請了多少人？到8月17日為止，到底有多少人申請？"],["洪部長申翰：從我們現在看到的數據，第一週確實是比較少，第二週就是第一週的兩倍……"],["廖委員偉翔：「比較少」是多少？"],["洪部長申翰：應該是四百多……"],["廖委員偉翔：四百多？"],["洪部長申翰：四、五百。"],["廖委員偉翔：四百多？"],["洪部長申翰：四、五百。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，那第二週是……"],["洪部長申翰：第二週是1,000，就是第一週的兩倍。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以到8月17日為止，總共是多少？"],["洪部長申翰：現在是1,450左右。"],["廖委員偉翔：1,450。所以兩週下來大約1,450，一個月可能不到3,000件，大約2,800件、2,900件左右……"],["洪部長申翰：不是，委員……"],["廖委員偉翔：我是說現在，我是說目前這樣推估……"],["洪部長申翰：委員……"],["廖委員偉翔：我當然知道接下來你很難預估未來的狀況，但你先聽我講……"],["洪部長申翰：對，委員，我們現在比較難去預估未來趨勢的走向會不會像之前……"],["廖委員偉翔：那我想要請教一下……"],["洪部長申翰：因為確實這個趨勢在第二週來說是上升的。"],["廖委員偉翔：80歲以上或70歲以上的癌症患者可以符合申請條件，目前有申請並通過的又是幾件？"],["洪部長申翰：不是，時間點都還沒有辦法確定，現在都還在求才登記的階段，後面才會取得求才的證明，接下來才是招募許可及聘僱許可。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我想要講的事情是，其實今天你們提供的報告完全沒有提到這些相關的數字，我在質詢的時候，你才把剛剛的數字講出來……"],["洪部長申翰：對，我們就讓委員知道。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以我希望這個部分應該用科學、務實、理性的方式去看數字的變化，而不是一直喊狼來了、有十萬多人等等，過去立法時就是用這種政治性的語言，我覺得現在既然政策要上路了，我們就務實地面對。你說第一週有四百多人，第二週是1,000人，截至8月17日為止是1,450人。我想要講的事情是，其實在實務上，目前地方上也有人說雖然有資格申請，但是在申請程序上，你剛剛說前面先7天登記，在國內的……"],["洪部長申翰：求才7天。"],["廖委員偉翔：對，先求才7天，招募不到人，才會去進一步地審查，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：然後在審查會上面審查員……這個是地方民眾的反映，就是也有可能會有技術性的阻擋……"],["洪部長申翰：不會！"],["廖委員偉翔：不會？"],["洪部長申翰：不會。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以只要過了就會從寬？"],["洪部長申翰：我跟委員說明，其實對輕症的來說，就是按照過去怎麼做，現在就怎麼做，這是輕症的部分。我們做的是把重症優先，可是我們不會去阻擋、也不會去卡輕症的。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，我想要說的是，報導提到臺南就業服務商業同業公會理事長表示，以目前他們業界的推估（不是我的推估）看起來，第一年可能申請的是2萬到3萬人，本席想問，具體而言，這部分補得足嗎？再來，本來年初通過這個法案，你有大概7個月的準備期，就這個部分，究竟你們的成果如何？因為你擔心來源不足或是移工看護的量能不足，你多了7個月的時間，我想請問，目前的進度是怎麼樣？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，自去年底通過、1月20日總統公告後，我們馬上就找4個移工的來源國商議要增加引進的量，我們馬上就跟他們討論了。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我不是要問你過程，我想問結果，成果是什麼？因為當初一通過，你說需要給勞動部時間去消化嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：我只是想問，你看，8月1日上路，目前為止是1,450件，用業界的標準來看，假設預估一年是2到3萬人，想要請問就這個部分勞動部準備得怎麼樣？過去7個月的成果如何？未來是不是可以，就是這個來源訓練……其實剛剛部長也有說到，目前的來源國可能有足夠的量，可是也要兼顧訓練的品質，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：對。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以看起來……"],["洪部長申翰：我都不敢用「足夠」這兩個字，但我們會儘量跟它協商增加。"],["廖委員偉翔：換言之，其實重點問題到底在哪？是不是訓練的量能，是嗎？"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，其實這7個月左右的時間我們做了幾件事情：第一個，跟來源母國協商增加；第二個，我們也建立了輕重分流、重症優先的機制、審查流程，很謝謝衛福部一起協助……"],["廖委員偉翔：是……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，讓我說完。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。"],["洪部長申翰：第三個，我們也擴編了預算、擴編了人力，來補充照管中心可能所需要的人力、我們自己需要審案件的人力，所以經費及人力我們也增加了，這都是7個月左右的時間……我們的配套包括這些人力也還要訓練，這些增加的人力都還要訓練，這就是在這7個月裡面我們在進行的事情。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我在這裡說：謝謝，感謝勞動部的所有同仁，大家辛苦了，也感謝大家，這在民間是一個德政。但是我還是想要務實地討論，我剛剛說了，報導寫到臺南就業服務同業公會理事長表示，如果以目前的量來看，預計可能是一年2萬到3萬人。我只問一個簡單的問題，面對這樣的狀況，假設是2到3萬人的需求量，勞動部過去7個月做的那些方法或者做了哪些努力，我只是想問，你的成果是怎麼樣？目前估計起來，這2萬到3萬人你有沒有辦法消化？"],["洪部長申翰：我想我們還是要努力，因為……"],["廖委員偉翔：請問有沒有相關的數字給本席？過去7個月，你剛剛說你做了這麼多的努力，我想要請問，這7個月有多了多少的移工看護？因為基本上這是供需問題嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：移工看護不是這7個月，移工看護是要到8月1日才開始進來。"],["廖委員偉翔：那你預估你過去的努力有沒有辦法消化？我剛剛的意思也是這樣，就是我剛剛再次講了，他們預估的數據是一年2到3萬人的申請需求，想要請問勞動部，以你們過去7個月的準備，你認為接下來這一年有沒有辦法提供這樣子的量能？"],["洪部長申翰：我們會全力以赴，我們相關的準備……我們會全力以赴。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，有沒有預估的數字？不能只有講「全力以赴」，我一直想要表達的就是數據在這裡，你大概有什麼辦法……"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，像我們有補助衛福部照管中心的人力、包括我們部裡面審查的人力，其實這些人力補助的多跟少，我們也一直在密切地看案源的量增加多少……"],["廖委員偉翔：對，剛剛說的大概是這樣子，對不對？"],["洪部長申翰：大家現在的確有各種預估，有些人預估比較高一點，有些人預估比較低一點，但從勞動部的角度，我們應該要把狀況設想成，如果人比較多，我們可以因應的話，那就相對有比較好的條件去面對人比較少的狀況。"],["廖委員偉翔：我覺得是這樣，勞動部應該做好高預估、中預估、低預估，就像剛剛你說的，勞動部要嚴謹地面對……"],["洪部長申翰：是。"],["廖委員偉翔：所以假設是高預估，究竟現在的量能到底可以符合你的低預估、中預估，還是現在高預估做不到，我們就要去想怎麼解決嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：我要跟委員說明，的確我們現在收到的一些案子，包括來陳情的案子，比方會有一些看護的雇主代表表示，因為修法之後，所以有些看護……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，不好意思，我覺得我們不要用這種個案式的，有人來反映這個、有人來反映那個，我其實想要表達的就是量……"],["洪部長申翰：因為這是實況啊！"],["廖委員偉翔：實況就是我剛剛一直問你究竟你量能的數據……"],["洪部長申翰：這是實況，我在講的是實況。"],["廖委員偉翔：究竟你量能的數據可不可以符合嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：我們會盡力。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，部長，因為時間的關係，我知道我超過很久了，可是我還是想要告訴大家，可以看到針對我剛剛問的問題，勞動部沒有具體的數據。我知道勞動部大家都很辛苦，但是我希望務實、理性面對，所以剛剛說的都是數字，現在已經上路了，截至8月17日有1,450人申請，究竟一年推估大約多少？我剛剛也說了，業界說可能一年2到3萬，假設2到3萬好了，是中推估，以勞動部過去7個月所做的努力，你剛剛講了，你做了很多的努力，我們都沒有要抹煞，但是究竟可不可以補上一年2、3萬的缺口……"],["洪部長申翰：我們會盡力、全力以赴。"],["廖委員偉翔：這是本席重要的問題。"],["洪部長申翰：我們會盡力、全力以赴……"],["廖委員偉翔：對，但是部長不能只說全力以赴。"],["洪部長申翰：但我沒有辦法把話講得太滿了。"],["廖委員偉翔：我沒有要你講得太滿，我們也是務實、理性，我剛剛就說了，就是低推估、中推估、高推估，目前為止你過去7個月的努力究竟可以做到低推估、中推估，還是高推估？部長，你剛剛都沒有回答我，你只有回答我全力以赴，我知道大家都很辛苦，但是……"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員說明，我沒有辦法把話講得太滿，因為這裡面的確還有不確定性，但我們會全力以赴。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，雖然你不能講太滿，但可不可以告訴我你的低推估、中推估、高推估，你可以滿足的是什麼？其實我剛剛一直要問的是這個。"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我為什麼要講剛剛的例子？因為你要講滿足，但滿足這個話要……"],["廖委員偉翔：我說數量嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：請委員讓我說明為什麼不容易的原因。"],["廖委員偉翔：好。"],["洪部長申翰：因為現在有很多聘僱看護的長者，確實遇到看護會跟雇主說他真的想轉出了，真的表達他想轉出或者是要求增加薪資，這個事情其實對於很多聘僱的家庭來說，對他來講也是一個新情境的衝擊。"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，所以我剛剛提到了嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：像這種狀況發生……"],["廖委員偉翔：你的供應來源……"],["洪部長申翰：也是修法以後產生的狀況……"],["廖委員偉翔：你過去七個月準備供應來源若有辦法補上，就可以彌補你剛剛說的狀況，因為如果供應來源是足夠的。可能就沒有這個狀況發生。"],["洪部長申翰：供應的來源我們盡力去跟母國談，但是……"],["廖委員偉翔：部長，我剛剛討論的就是這個嘛！"],["洪部長申翰：但這確實還是有母國的因素，不全然控制在我們手上。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。今天在場有很多官員，我相信剛剛我的問題應該是蠻單純的，就是這個供應究竟足不足夠。但我希望的是，部長，請大家一起共同務實理性面對，現在既然有數字了，究竟數字預估多少以及可不可以趕上，請貴部可以提供本席報告，好不好？請針對我剛剛的問題，因為你剛剛沒有辦法回答我，我希望可以提供給本席跟委員會，你們過去七個月的準備及接下來的一年可能會遇到的量能，究竟準備了多少？這個我覺得是比較務實的。"],["洪部長申翰：我們把我們準備的量能提供一個說明給委員。"],["廖委員偉翔：好，謝謝。"],["洪部長申翰：謝謝。"],["主席（劉委員建國）：謝謝廖委員及部長。","剛剛主席有宣布廖委員講完之後休息10分鐘，但我看黃秀芳委員在現場，而且部長等一下要離開，所以要不要……好，我們更正一下並重新宣告，等黃秀芳委員質詢完後再休息。","有請黃秀芳委員。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":220,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-26-25","speakers":["劉建國","陳昭姿","林月琴","陳菁徽","王育敏","邱鎮軍","蘇清泉","廖偉翔","黃秀芳","林淑芬","王正旭","陳瑩","盧縣一","楊曜","陳冠廷","徐欣瑩","何欣純"],"page_start":127,"meetingDate":["2025-08-20"],"gazette_id":"1147502","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147502_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期社會福利及衛生環境委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、邀請勞動部部長、衛生福利部就「就業服務法第46條，80歲以上長者聘請外籍看護免巴氏量\n表上路，對重症家庭的衝擊與配套措施」進行專題報告，並備質詢；二、繼續審查 (一）委員王\n育敏等18人擬具「病人自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案、(二）委員劉建國等16人擬具「病人\n自主權利法部分條文修正草案」案、(三)委員邱志偉等19人擬具「病人自主權利法第八條、第九\n條及第十五條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員李柏毅等16人擬具「病人自主權利法第九條條文修正\n草案」案、(五)委員羅廷瑋等16人擬具「病人自主權利法增訂第十六條之一條文草案」案【逐條\n討論】","agenda_id":"1147502_00002"}}}