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598.869, \"end\": 599.029, \"score\": 0.98}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 599.029, \"end\": 599.369, \"score\": 0.932}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 599.369, \"end\": 599.85, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 599.85, \"end\": 600.05, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"擔\"}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 600.05, \"end\": 600.21, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 600.21, \"end\": 600.45, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 600.45, \"end\": 601.09, \"score\": 0.937}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 601.09, \"end\": 601.27, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 601.27, \"end\": 601.45, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 601.45, \"end\": 601.79, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 601.79, \"end\": 602.691, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"推\", \"start\": 602.691, \"end\": 602.971, \"score\": 0.96}, {\"word\": \"翻\", 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{\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"?\"}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 617.818, \"end\": 617.838, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 617.838, \"end\": 617.858, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 617.858, \"end\": 617.998, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"0\"}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"年\", \"start\": 617.998, \"end\": 618.018, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"已\", \"start\": 618.018, \"end\": 618.038, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"訂\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 618.038, \"end\": 618.159, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"締\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 618.159, \"end\": 618.259, \"score\": 0.795}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 618.259, \"end\": 618.439, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 618.439, \"end\": 618.519, \"score\": 0.749}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 618.519, \"end\": 619.079, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"貴\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 619.079, \"end\": 619.239, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 619.239, \"end\": 619.519, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 619.519, \"end\": 620.78, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 620.78, \"end\": 620.92, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"締\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 620.92, \"end\": 621.04, \"score\": 0.81}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 621.04, \"end\": 621.18, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 621.18, \"end\": 621.28, \"score\": 0.775}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 621.28, \"end\": 621.44, \"score\": 0.836}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 621.44, \"end\": 621.6, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"規\"}, {\"word\": \"範\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 621.6, \"end\": 621.62, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 631.946, \"end\": 649.533, \"text\": \"那條約締結法第三條有對條約有所定義裡面涉及國防外交財政經濟重要事項都是稱為條約那尤其如果未來在關稅的部分有所變動的話那關稅也有涉及相關關稅的法律那這些我們都會依照法律來進行\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 631.946, \"end\": 632.566, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"締\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 632.566, \"end\": 632.706, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 632.706, \"end\": 632.826, \"score\": 0.837}, {\"word\": \"三\", \"start\": 632.826, \"end\": 633.367, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 633.367, \"end\": 634.007, \"score\": 0.913}, {\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 634.007, \"end\": 634.187, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 634.187, \"end\": 634.427, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"定\", \"start\": 634.427, \"end\": 635.307, \"score\": 0.931}, {\"word\": \"義\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 635.307, \"end\": 635.527, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 635.527, \"end\": 635.708, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 635.708, \"end\": 636.008, \"score\": 0.804}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"防\", \"start\": 636.008, \"end\": 636.168, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"外\", \"start\": 636.168, \"end\": 636.348, \"score\": 0.936}, {\"word\": \"交\", \"start\": 636.348, \"end\": 636.888, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 636.888, \"end\": 637.588, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"經\"}, {\"word\": \"濟\"}, {\"word\": \"重\", \"start\": 637.588, \"end\": 637.728, \"score\": 0.862}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 637.728, \"end\": 637.928, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 637.928, \"end\": 639.249, \"score\": 0.925}, {\"word\": \"項\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 639.249, \"end\": 639.389, \"score\": 0.859}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 639.389, \"end\": 640.669, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"稱\"}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 640.669, \"end\": 640.79, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"尤\", \"start\": 640.79, \"end\": 641.01, \"score\": 0.91}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 641.01, \"end\": 641.19, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 641.19, \"end\": 641.33, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 641.33, \"end\": 641.77, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"未\", \"start\": 641.77, \"end\": 642.11, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 642.11, \"end\": 642.75, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 642.75, \"end\": 642.89, \"score\": 0.942}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 642.89, \"end\": 643.05, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 643.05, \"end\": 643.19, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 643.19, \"end\": 643.371, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 643.371, \"end\": 643.931, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"變\"}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 643.931, \"end\": 644.471, \"score\": 0.963}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 644.471, \"end\": 644.851, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 644.851, \"end\": 645.011, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 645.011, \"end\": 645.251, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"涉\", \"start\": 645.251, \"end\": 645.431, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"及\", \"start\": 645.431, \"end\": 645.571, \"score\": 0.856}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 645.571, \"end\": 646.272, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 646.272, \"end\": 646.412, \"score\": 0.988}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 646.412, \"end\": 646.612, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 646.612, \"end\": 647.292, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 647.292, \"end\": 647.732, \"score\": 0.953}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"些\", \"start\": 647.732, \"end\": 647.972, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 647.972, \"end\": 648.232, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 648.232, \"end\": 648.553, \"score\": 0.784}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"依\", \"start\": 648.553, \"end\": 648.673, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"照\", \"start\": 648.673, \"end\": 648.893, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 648.893, \"end\": 648.993, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"律\", \"start\": 648.993, \"end\": 649.513, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 649.513, \"end\": 649.533, \"score\": 0.997}]}, {\"start\": 650.014, \"end\": 667.792, \"text\": \"那條約締結法第八條也清楚的規範這個條約簽署之後會要送國會來這個審議那當然第十條也有相關國會審議相關的條文我想這些法律都可以供委員這邊來參考那不過這一次的談判我要強調的是它跟過去傳統的經貿談判不一樣\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 650.014, \"end\": 650.735, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"條\"}, {\"word\": \"約\"}, {\"word\": \"締\"}, {\"word\": \"結\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 650.735, \"end\": 650.915, \"score\": 0.997}, 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00:00:09,726\n謝謝主席有請卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長鄭副院長備詢陸委員好\n\n2\n00:00:23,221 --> 00:00:37,768\n院長好副院長午安雖然說百分之二十的台美關稅在八月七號的時候就已經生效了可是基本上呢這是一個暫時性的這個稅率那整個談判過程都還在進行當中那剛剛\n\n3\n00:00:38,928 --> 00:00:58,866\n副院長或者是之前我有聽到就是美方這邊的報導說也許九月份或十月份我們就會有一個最終的這個結果那談判團隊也一直強調說我們會努力來爭取這個不疊加然後甚至呢比百分之二十還要低的這個稅率喔那既然這是一個還在進行當中的這個談判\n\n4\n00:00:59,747 --> 00:01:22,938\n那基於這個國際談判的原則都會簽署這個保密協議要等到整個談判有了最後的結果我們才能夠公布這個談判的細節可是我們看到在野的這個立委他根本是不顧國際談判的這個規範然後甚至誣導民眾說這整個談判其實是一個黑箱的作業那要求公開這個談判的內容\n\n5\n00:01:24,099 --> 00:01:48,772\n那除了今天的院會那本席呢發現在這之前有好幾個委員會其實已經開過超過十場以上的這個安排了這十場以上的這個相關的這個議程了所以要求這個談判團隊呢來做備詢所以委員會問不夠今天在院會還要再來加開再來詢問所以本席想請教啊這個就是一個非常普遍的一個問題我想請教院長副院長\n\n6\n00:01:49,312 --> 00:01:56,143\n如果我们片面公开这相关的细节的话对于我们这次或未来的国际谈判会有什么样不利的影响\n\n7\n00:01:56,869 --> 00:02:20,412\n談判的壓力我請副院長來答覆謝謝羅委員來還原事實上我們在歷次的實體談判之後都有發布新聞稿各部委員都到委員會備詢那的確現在因為有時間差因為許多國家達成協議那我方是還沒達成協議先從32降到20所以現在我們大家看到各國公佈的談判條件是因為他們跟美方達成協議\n\n8\n00:02:21,633 --> 00:02:37,562\n所以達成協議之後他們會由美方雙方公佈聯合聲明來羅列相關談判條件或由白宮來公佈事實文件來公佈這個談判條件或是由川普總統本人宣佈這個協議的相關的重點內容\n\n9\n00:02:38,562 --> 00:02:53,491\n所以我們看到各國公布這些內容都是在達成協議之後比較完整的說明裡面涉及的所有的談判條件所以我方現在因為還在談判中我們現在的稅率是一個階段性的稅率\n\n10\n00:02:54,171 --> 00:03:15,008\n所以屆時如果達成協議之後呢雙方也會先來公布相關的談判條件那之後完成了協議的簽署那麼我們依照條約締結法的這個第八條條約簽署之後呢報行政院就會來送國會來進行審議我想我們一切都是依照條約締結法依法來進行\n\n11\n00:03:17,910 --> 00:03:45,019\n這個過程的確我們現在還在繼續談判中但我們也了解產業社會需要更清楚的資訊所以我們也願意善盡說明的責任不管是來大院或是記者會或是我們已經跟產業界有許多的座談持續的來進行說明讓大家更了解我們在MFN加對等關稅20%受到的衝擊裡面政府可以來給予什麼樣的支持\n\n12\n00:03:45,629 --> 00:04:02,309\n尤其針對裡面衝擊比較大的像工具機機械或蝴蝶籃鬼頭刀等等這些衝擊較大而且對於競爭國而言相對它的稅率對競爭國產生比較競爭劣勢的特定的產業我想院長也有特地安排行程面對面的來聽取\n\n13\n00:04:04,332 --> 00:04:20,219\n聽聽業者的聲音那我們行政院會再給予特別的支持我想在這個過程當中我們全力支持但是我們談判團隊包含跨部會在內我們一定全力努力持續以越快速度越好來持續推進談判爭取最後的總結會議來完成這個協議\n\n14\n00:04:23,385 --> 00:04:46,341\n所以我們其實一直都是按照這個國際規範在走一定要等一定有一個定案之後我們才能夠公開相關的細節我想全世界都是如此那有沒有哪個國家的這個國會議員會在談判當中一再要求這個行政團隊談判團隊把這個細節公開目前有嗎目前看起來好像是沒有就只有台灣這麼做\n\n15\n00:04:47,482 --> 00:05:08,863\n美國這次跟各國談判都簽有保密協議那當然我們為了尊重大院這個協議其實也是規範就是在談判過程當中相關的文件因為有許多的談判的議題其實在磋商中也許有共識但是最後在整體總結的時候會在整體進行最後的定案\n\n16\n00:05:09,443 --> 00:05:28,824\n那所以的確各國也都依照國際談判的慣例跟這個保密的協議相關在進行但是我們為了尊重大院也在大院機密會議的安排底下來出示相關的保密的會議那不過的確因為現在許多國家達成協議大家看到相關的談判條件也會想要了解我方\n\n17\n00:05:29,504 --> 00:05:39,753\n談判的情形我們充分的理解社會需要資訊國會需要資訊所以我們行政院在所有可能的範圍能夠公開說明的我們一定善盡說明的責任\n\n18\n00:05:40,906 --> 00:06:04,713\n好的謝謝副院長的這個說明那再來就是說剛剛也有委員在關心就是前兩天有這個媒體以獨家報導的這個方式報導裡面特別還提到說是收到經濟部內部的資訊所以裡面還提及了談判的過程美國要求我方取消哪些商品品項的關稅甚至有提到我方對美投資方面的承諾等等\n\n19\n00:06:05,713 --> 00:06:33,982\n雖然後來我們行政院經貿工作小組有澄清說其實這是不實的報導也沒有跟我們這裡做過求證裡面的項目跟談判的內容是有所出入的可是媒體所提到的經濟部內部所提供的資訊到目前為止已經事情過了兩天了我們行政單位到底有沒有去了解是不是就是從經濟部裡面流出來的呢有了解過嗎\n\n20\n00:06:36,554 --> 00:06:54,253\n跟委員報告那經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼完全全面的資料那所以這個報導其實是不確實的確實可是他特別有提到是經濟部內部流出來的這個管道到底是誰是哪個單位這邊有去了解過嗎\n\n21\n00:06:55,194 --> 00:07:17,380\n是我們也在瞭解中還在瞭解當中所以到目前還不是很清楚到底怎麼回事但是很確實很確定的是說我們經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼全面的資料像委員來補充說明談判小組除了我跟楊振偉之外其實包含了跨部會經濟部農業部衛福部財政部等等還有外交部國安會等等許多的部會\n\n22\n00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:36,621\n那談判的範疇包含關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全採購投資等等等等所以其實各部會參與各部會的部分那目前看我們當天看到這個新聞我們有了解行政院經貿辦經濟部等各部會都沒有收到查證\n\n23\n00:07:37,731 --> 00:07:52,707\n所以我想這裡面有些數字並不是向部會查證之後來做報導所以裡面也有一些資訊跟談判的情形有所出入我們還是希望說國人給予我們一些時間讓我們加速談判\n\n24\n00:07:53,408 --> 00:08:12,766\n那談判我們一旦跟美方達成協議我們一定會先公佈所有談判的內容跟細節那這個過程我們必須做一定的這樣的一個期待是希望說有一些過度的揭露是不是可能最終會影響我們談判雙方條件的磋商\n\n25\n00:08:13,587 --> 00:08:41,481\n像後續我們要談判相關的供應鏈的合作232的相關關稅然後如果達成共識希望對等關稅能夠再降那這些談判桌上可能的條件現在如果過度的揭露是不是也會成為我們未來談判的變數我想這一點還要請大院跟社會能夠理解那我們一定在一旦有共識跟達成協議的時候我們一定會完整的提供說明向社會也會將協議送大院來審議\n\n26\n00:08:42,461 --> 00:08:52,577\n也會一併提出衝擊影響評估我再請問副院長如果到時查出來真的是從經濟部裡面揭露出來的話那會有懲處嗎請問\n\n27\n00:08:56,843 --> 00:09:14,676\n譬如說它裡面提供目前為止都說裡面的資訊其實是有跟原本談判的內容其實是有出入的表示說萬一如果說真的是從經濟部裡面洩露出來的這會不會是說造成人心不安的一個\n\n28\n00:09:16,565 --> 00:09:30,807\n報告委員任何公務員從事國家公務的行為都有一定的準則跟規範公務員服務法有任何違法的那我們就依法來處理但我認為跟媒體的溝通我們要做得更確實\n\n29\n00:09:31,989 --> 00:09:49,891\n因為如果平常建立媒體有這種查證的程序的話很多的誤會就不會發生所以我也要求各部會以後加強跟媒體各項聯絡跟服務我們用最真實的面貌來向國人來論述我們所有的施政結果\n\n30\n00:09:50,626 --> 00:10:05,752\nOK好了解那剛剛副院長還有提到就是說未來我們關稅的協議的文本呢將會送到這個立法院來做審議那行政單位會不會擔心就是說立法院到時會推翻原定的這個協議的內容有沒有可能\n\n31\n00:10:06,292 --> 00:10:21,620\n那當然不是說協議的內容不能夠提出意見萬一在野正義為反對而反對難道我們還要跟美國重新來談判嗎?有可能嗎?美國會理會台灣嗎?大院在2015年已經訂有這個條約締結法那我想貴我兩院就依條約締結法相關的法律規範來進行\n\n32\n00:10:31,946 --> 00:10:49,533\n那條約締結法第三條有對條約有所定義裡面涉及國防外交財政經濟重要事項都是稱為條約那尤其如果未來在關稅的部分有所變動的話那關稅也有涉及相關關稅的法律那這些我們都會依照法律來進行\n\n33\n00:10:50,014 --> 00:11:07,792\n那條約締結法第八條也清楚的規範這個條約簽署之後會要送國會來這個審議那當然第十條也有相關國會審議相關的條文我想這些法律都可以供委員這邊來參考那不過這一次的談判我要強調的是它跟過去傳統的經貿談判不一樣\n\n34\n00:11:09,554 --> 00:11:31,856\n過去傳統經貿盤可能歷時多年但是這一次是在幾個月內美國跟所有國家一起進行談判那談判必須有這個各個範疇關稅費關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全等等投資等等各項議題也有相關對等貿易協議的各項的條文要逐條的磋商這些技術性磋商完了之後我們同時\n\n35\n00:11:32,817 --> 00:11:59,525\n跟貿易代表組磋商完我們要跟商務部來進行未來供應鏈232的討論來進行一個總結的一個會議那最後總結的會議也要看美方他怎麼樣來安排這個形式來進行所以我想這個談判跟過去的經貿談判的形式是有所不同的屆時我們再請國會來這個云與整體的考量但是我們也會善盡行政院向國會報告以及提供衝擊影響評估並把所有的資訊送交國會來審議的責任\n\n36\n00:12:01,212 --> 00:12:26,649\nOK好謝謝那也是要等到最終可能九月底十月以後的事情了嗎一切等談判結束前後我剛剛所提的這個時程是參考這個美國財政部長BesantMr.Besant他的一個說法那但是以我方的立場當然是我們希望能夠越快越好那不過的確談判有時候取決於雙方例如說最後總結性會議的安排\n\n37\n00:12:27,089 --> 00:12:32,337\n我們也必須要跟美方來進行就形式的討論所以我想我們就是全力朝這個目標來推進\n\n38\n00:12:33,939 --> 00:13:01,059\nOK好最後一個問題我想請教的就是說我們為了因應美國對等關稅帶來的這個產業的衝擊那經濟部呢他有提了四大方向就是包含用AI來降成本去美國設這個產業園區鼓勵業者生耕利基市場還有協助升級轉型等等那本是想請教的去美國設產業園區這個部分其實也就是我們談判的一個很重要的一個一個項目跟籌碼之一嘛對不對因為我們既然已經提出來了\n\n39\n00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:23,111\n其實外界都關心說那為什麼台美還沒達成協議其實就是我們一再的說明因為我們的逆差結構有九成來自半導體ICT那這個在232調查項目中那將這個對等關稅跟232並談的像日韓歐盟美方也清楚的跟我們表達他們涉及的232項目相對比我們單純\n\n40\n00:13:24,232 --> 00:13:42,467\n他們也許是汽車也許是鋼品等等等等那我方是聚焦在半導體跟ICT那這個部分的232關稅在美方的政策屬於未定他們的稅率政策還在變動中所以雙方必須就供應鏈合作跟232後續我們也希望爭取優惠一併討論\n\n41\n00:13:43,948 --> 00:14:04,916\n所以我們的確也正在跟我們的高科技業者座談來瞭解大家的想法整合大家的共識我們希望能夠透過後續的談判能夠雙方台美供應鏈有一個好的合作然後爭取232的優惠一旦在這個部分達成共識我們同時能夠進入總結會議爭取再降對等關稅並且不疊加\n\n42\n00:14:05,495 --> 00:14:29,710\n所以這裡面核心的議題的確也是供應鏈的我們在國際尤其在美國擴大的佈局那我想台美的高科技產業過去長期是互補的美國在創新研發非常的強台灣是我們的製造非常的強所以如果我們的製造在美國能夠來結合他們當地的技術研發能力市場跟人才我想也是我們一個有利的一個國際佈局\n\n43\n00:14:30,791 --> 00:14:46,017\n所以未來的談判應該要朝向雙方互補互利合作的方式來深入討論這個供應鏈合作的佈局那我方高科技產業的發展一個很重要的經驗也是來自於我們產業園區科學園區政府跟產業界協力合作的模式\n\n44\n00:14:46,517 --> 00:15:11,833\n所以這一次除了企業如果赴美投資如果政府未來也能夠協助我們落地的企業能夠打造一個更好的投資環境公平的環境我們也透過這樣的產業聚落的方式為他們爭取更好的在美國給予的協助跟條件讓他們能夠得到更好的基礎建設然後能夠更好的一個投資優惠的環境我想對我們的產業的國際布局也是有利的\n\n45\n00:15:12,193 --> 00:15:25,779\n所以這個都在我們後續的談判範疇當中所以這個去美國社產業園區就是我們的籌碼之一當然剛才副院長講得非常的清楚可能還是以高科技產業到那裡去做投資呢作為這個好\n\n46\n00:15:43,556 --> 00:15:45,318\n謝謝羅委員謝謝左院長還有副院長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3800\t9726\t謝謝主席有請卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長 鄭副院長備詢陸委員好\n23221\t37768\t院長好 副院長午安雖然說百分之二十的台美關稅在八月七號的時候就已經生效了可是基本上呢這是一個暫時性的這個稅率那整個談判過程都還在進行當中那剛剛\n38928\t58866\t副院長或者是之前我有聽到就是美方這邊的報導說也許九月份或十月份我們就會有一個最終的這個結果那談判團隊也一直強調說我們會努力來爭取這個不疊加然後甚至呢比百分之二十還要低的這個稅率喔那既然這是一個還在進行當中的這個談判\n59747\t82938\t那基於這個國際談判的原則都會簽署這個保密協議要等到整個談判有了最後的結果我們才能夠公布這個談判的細節可是我們看到在野的這個立委他根本是不顧國際談判的這個規範然後甚至誣導民眾說這整個談判其實是一個黑箱的作業那要求公開這個談判的內容\n84099\t108772\t那除了今天的院會那本席呢發現在這之前有好幾個委員會其實已經開過超過十場以上的這個安排了這十場以上的這個相關的這個議程了所以要求這個談判團隊呢來做備詢所以委員會問不夠今天在院會還要再來加開再來詢問所以本席想請教啊這個就是一個非常普遍的一個問題我想請教院長副院長\n109312\t116143\t如果我们片面公开这相关的细节的话对于我们这次或未来的国际谈判会有什么样不利的影响\n116869\t140412\t談判的壓力我請副院長來答覆謝謝羅委員來還原事實上我們在歷次的實體談判之後都有發布新聞稿各部委員都到委員會備詢那的確現在因為有時間差因為許多國家達成協議那我方是還沒達成協議先從32降到20所以現在我們大家看到各國公佈的談判條件是因為他們跟美方達成協議\n141633\t157562\t所以達成協議之後他們會由美方雙方公佈聯合聲明來羅列相關談判條件或由白宮來公佈事實文件來公佈這個談判條件或是由川普總統本人宣佈這個協議的相關的重點內容\n158562\t173491\t所以我們看到各國公布這些內容都是在達成協議之後比較完整的說明裡面涉及的所有的談判條件所以我方現在因為還在談判中我們現在的稅率是一個階段性的稅率\n174171\t195008\t所以屆時如果達成協議之後呢雙方也會先來公布相關的談判條件那之後完成了協議的簽署那麼我們依照條約締結法的這個第八條條約簽署之後呢報行政院就會來送國會來進行審議我想我們一切都是依照條約締結法依法來進行\n197910\t225019\t這個過程的確我們現在還在繼續談判中但我們也了解產業社會需要更清楚的資訊所以我們也願意善盡說明的責任不管是來大院或是記者會或是我們已經跟產業界有許多的座談持續的來進行說明讓大家更了解我們在MFN加對等關稅20%受到的衝擊裡面政府可以來給予什麼樣的支持\n225629\t242309\t尤其針對裡面衝擊比較大的像工具機 機械或蝴蝶籃 鬼頭刀等等這些衝擊較大而且對於競爭國而言相對它的稅率對競爭國產生比較競爭劣勢的特定的產業我想院長也有特地安排行程面對面的來聽取\n244332\t260219\t聽聽業者的聲音那我們行政院會再給予特別的支持我想在這個過程當中我們全力支持但是我們談判團隊包含跨部會在內我們一定全力努力持續以越快速度越好來持續推進談判爭取最後的總結會議來完成這個協議\n263385\t286341\t所以我們其實一直都是按照這個國際規範在走一定要等一定有一個定案之後我們才能夠公開相關的細節我想全世界都是如此那有沒有哪個國家的這個國會議員會在談判當中一再要求這個行政團隊談判團隊把這個細節公開目前有嗎 目前看起來好像是沒有就只有台灣這麼做\n287482\t308863\t美國這次跟各國談判都簽有保密協議那當然我們為了尊重大院這個協議其實也是規範就是在談判過程當中相關的文件因為有許多的談判的議題其實在磋商中也許有共識但是最後在整體總結的時候會在整體進行最後的定案\n309443\t328824\t那所以的確各國也都依照國際談判的慣例跟這個保密的協議相關在進行但是我們為了尊重大院也在大院機密會議的安排底下來出示相關的保密的會議那不過的確因為現在許多國家達成協議大家看到相關的談判條件也會想要了解我方\n329504\t339753\t談判的情形我們充分的理解社會需要資訊國會需要資訊所以我們行政院在所有可能的範圍能夠公開說明的我們一定善盡說明的責任\n340906\t364713\t好的 謝謝副院長的這個說明那再來就是說剛剛也有委員在關心就是前兩天有這個媒體以獨家報導的這個方式報導裡面特別還提到說是收到經濟部內部的資訊所以裡面還提及了談判的過程美國要求我方取消哪些商品品項的關稅甚至有提到我方對美投資方面的承諾等等\n365713\t393982\t雖然後來我們行政院經貿工作小組有澄清說其實這是不實的報導也沒有跟我們這裡做過求證裡面的項目跟談判的內容是有所出入的可是媒體所提到的經濟部內部所提供的資訊到目前為止已經事情過了兩天了我們行政單位到底有沒有去了解是不是就是從經濟部裡面流出來的呢有了解過嗎\n396554\t414253\t跟委員報告那經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼完全全面的資料那所以這個報導其實是不確實的確實可是他特別有提到是經濟部內部流出來的這個管道到底是誰是哪個單位這邊有去了解過嗎\n415194\t437380\t是 我們也在瞭解中 還在瞭解當中所以到目前還不是很清楚到底怎麼回事但是很確實 很確定的是說我們經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼全面的資料像委員來補充說明 談判小組除了我跟楊振偉之外其實包含了跨部會經濟部 農業部 衛福部 財政部等等還有外交部 國安會等等許多的部會\n438240\t456621\t那談判的範疇包含關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全採購投資等等等等所以其實各部會參與各部會的部分那目前看我們當天看到這個新聞我們有了解行政院經貿辦經濟部等各部會都沒有收到查證\n457731\t472707\t所以我想這裡面有些數字並不是向部會查證之後來做報導所以裡面也有一些資訊跟談判的情形有所出入我們還是希望說國人給予我們一些時間讓我們加速談判\n473408\t492766\t那談判我們一旦跟美方達成協議我們一定會先公佈所有談判的內容跟細節那這個過程我們必須做一定的這樣的一個期待是希望說有一些過度的揭露是不是可能最終會影響我們談判雙方條件的磋商\n493587\t521481\t像後續我們要談判相關的供應鏈的合作232的相關關稅然後如果達成共識希望對等關稅能夠再降那這些談判桌上可能的條件現在如果過度的揭露是不是也會成為我們未來談判的變數我想這一點還要請大院跟社會能夠理解那我們一定在一旦有共識跟達成協議的時候我們一定會完整的提供說明向社會也會將協議送大院來審議\n522461\t532577\t也會一併提出衝擊影響評估我再請問副院長如果到時查出來真的是從經濟部裡面揭露出來的話那會有懲處嗎 請問\n536843\t554676\t譬如說它裡面提供目前為止都說裡面的資訊其實是有跟原本談判的內容其實是有出入的表示說萬一如果說真的是從經濟部裡面洩露出來的這會不會是說造成人心不安的一個\n556565\t570807\t報告委員任何公務員從事國家公務的行為都有一定的準則跟規範公務員服務法有任何違法的那我們就依法來處理但我認為跟媒體的溝通我們要做得更確實\n571989\t589891\t因為如果平常建立媒體有這種查證的程序的話很多的誤會就不會發生所以我也要求各部會以後加強跟媒體各項聯絡跟服務我們用最真實的面貌來向國人來論述我們所有的施政結果\n590626\t605752\tOK 好了解那剛剛副院長還有提到就是說未來我們關稅的協議的文本呢將會送到這個立法院來做審議那行政單位會不會擔心就是說立法院到時會推翻原定的這個協議的內容有沒有可能\n606292\t621620\t那當然不是說協議的內容不能夠提出意見萬一在野正義為反對而反對難道我們還要跟美國重新來談判嗎?有可能嗎?美國會理會台灣嗎?大院在2015年已經訂有這個條約締結法那我想貴我兩院就依條約締結法相關的法律規範來進行\n631946\t649533\t那條約締結法第三條有對條約有所定義裡面涉及國防外交財政經濟重要事項都是稱為條約那尤其如果未來在關稅的部分有所變動的話那關稅也有涉及相關關稅的法律那這些我們都會依照法律來進行\n650014\t667792\t那條約締結法第八條也清楚的規範這個條約簽署之後會要送國會來這個審議那當然第十條也有相關國會審議相關的條文我想這些法律都可以供委員這邊來參考那不過這一次的談判我要強調的是它跟過去傳統的經貿談判不一樣\n669554\t691856\t過去傳統經貿盤可能歷時多年但是這一次是在幾個月內美國跟所有國家一起進行談判那談判必須有這個各個範疇關稅費關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全等等投資等等各項議題也有相關對等貿易協議的各項的條文要逐條的磋商這些技術性磋商完了之後我們同時\n692817\t719525\t跟貿易代表組磋商完我們要跟商務部來進行未來供應鏈232的討論來進行一個總結的一個會議那最後總結的會議也要看美方他怎麼樣來安排這個形式來進行所以我想這個談判跟過去的經貿談判的形式是有所不同的屆時我們再請國會來這個云與整體的考量但是我們也會善盡行政院向國會報告以及提供衝擊影響評估並把所有的資訊送交國會來審議的責任\n721212\t746649\tOK好謝謝那也是要等到最終可能九月底十月以後的事情了嗎一切等談判結束前後我剛剛所提的這個時程是參考這個美國財政部長BesantMr.Besant他的一個說法那但是以我方的立場當然是我們希望能夠越快越好那不過的確談判有時候取決於雙方例如說最後總結性會議的安排\n747089\t752337\t我們也必須要跟美方來進行就形式的討論所以我想我們就是全力朝這個目標來推進\n753939\t781059\tOK好最後一個問題我想請教的就是說我們為了因應美國對等關稅帶來的這個產業的衝擊那經濟部呢他有提了四大方向就是包含用AI來降成本去美國設這個產業園區鼓勵業者生耕利基市場還有協助升級轉型等等那本是想請教的去美國設產業園區這個部分其實也就是我們談判的一個很重要的一個一個項目跟籌碼之一嘛對不對因為我們既然已經提出來了\n781980\t803111\t其實外界都關心說那為什麼台美還沒達成協議其實就是我們一再的說明因為我們的逆差結構有九成來自半導體ICT那這個在232調查項目中那將這個對等關稅跟232並談的像日韓歐盟美方也清楚的跟我們表達他們涉及的232項目相對比我們單純\n804232\t822467\t他們也許是汽車也許是鋼品等等等等那我方是聚焦在半導體跟ICT那這個部分的232關稅在美方的政策屬於未定他們的稅率政策還在變動中所以雙方必須就供應鏈合作跟232後續我們也希望爭取優惠一併討論\n823948\t844916\t所以我們的確也正在跟我們的高科技業者座談來瞭解大家的想法整合大家的共識我們希望能夠透過後續的談判能夠雙方台美供應鏈有一個好的合作然後爭取232的優惠一旦在這個部分達成共識我們同時能夠進入總結會議爭取再降對等關稅並且不疊加\n845495\t869710\t所以這裡面核心的議題的確也是供應鏈的我們在國際尤其在美國擴大的佈局那我想台美的高科技產業過去長期是互補的美國在創新研發非常的強台灣是我們的製造非常的強所以如果我們的製造在美國能夠來結合他們當地的技術研發能力市場跟人才我想也是我們一個有利的一個國際佈局\n870791\t886017\t所以未來的談判應該要朝向雙方互補互利合作的方式來深入討論這個供應鏈合作的佈局那我方高科技產業的發展一個很重要的經驗也是來自於我們產業園區 科學園區政府跟產業界協力合作的模式\n886517\t911833\t所以這一次除了企業如果赴美投資如果政府未來也能夠協助我們落地的企業能夠打造一個更好的投資環境公平的環境我們也透過這樣的產業聚落的方式為他們爭取更好的在美國給予的協助跟條件讓他們能夠得到更好的基礎建設然後能夠更好的一個投資優惠的環境我想對我們的產業的國際布局也是有利的\n912193\t925779\t所以這個都在我們後續的談判範疇當中所以這個去美國社產業園區就是我們的籌碼之一當然剛才副院長講得非常的清楚可能還是以高科技產業到那裡去做投資呢作為這個好\n943556\t945318\t謝謝羅委員 謝謝左院長還有副院長\n","txt":"謝謝主席有請卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長 鄭副院長備詢陸委員好\n院長好 副院長午安雖然說百分之二十的台美關稅在八月七號的時候就已經生效了可是基本上呢這是一個暫時性的這個稅率那整個談判過程都還在進行當中那剛剛\n副院長或者是之前我有聽到就是美方這邊的報導說也許九月份或十月份我們就會有一個最終的這個結果那談判團隊也一直強調說我們會努力來爭取這個不疊加然後甚至呢比百分之二十還要低的這個稅率喔那既然這是一個還在進行當中的這個談判\n那基於這個國際談判的原則都會簽署這個保密協議要等到整個談判有了最後的結果我們才能夠公布這個談判的細節可是我們看到在野的這個立委他根本是不顧國際談判的這個規範然後甚至誣導民眾說這整個談判其實是一個黑箱的作業那要求公開這個談判的內容\n那除了今天的院會那本席呢發現在這之前有好幾個委員會其實已經開過超過十場以上的這個安排了這十場以上的這個相關的這個議程了所以要求這個談判團隊呢來做備詢所以委員會問不夠今天在院會還要再來加開再來詢問所以本席想請教啊這個就是一個非常普遍的一個問題我想請教院長副院長\n如果我们片面公开这相关的细节的话对于我们这次或未来的国际谈判会有什么样不利的影响\n談判的壓力我請副院長來答覆謝謝羅委員來還原事實上我們在歷次的實體談判之後都有發布新聞稿各部委員都到委員會備詢那的確現在因為有時間差因為許多國家達成協議那我方是還沒達成協議先從32降到20所以現在我們大家看到各國公佈的談判條件是因為他們跟美方達成協議\n所以達成協議之後他們會由美方雙方公佈聯合聲明來羅列相關談判條件或由白宮來公佈事實文件來公佈這個談判條件或是由川普總統本人宣佈這個協議的相關的重點內容\n所以我們看到各國公布這些內容都是在達成協議之後比較完整的說明裡面涉及的所有的談判條件所以我方現在因為還在談判中我們現在的稅率是一個階段性的稅率\n所以屆時如果達成協議之後呢雙方也會先來公布相關的談判條件那之後完成了協議的簽署那麼我們依照條約締結法的這個第八條條約簽署之後呢報行政院就會來送國會來進行審議我想我們一切都是依照條約締結法依法來進行\n這個過程的確我們現在還在繼續談判中但我們也了解產業社會需要更清楚的資訊所以我們也願意善盡說明的責任不管是來大院或是記者會或是我們已經跟產業界有許多的座談持續的來進行說明讓大家更了解我們在MFN加對等關稅20%受到的衝擊裡面政府可以來給予什麼樣的支持\n尤其針對裡面衝擊比較大的像工具機 機械或蝴蝶籃 鬼頭刀等等這些衝擊較大而且對於競爭國而言相對它的稅率對競爭國產生比較競爭劣勢的特定的產業我想院長也有特地安排行程面對面的來聽取\n聽聽業者的聲音那我們行政院會再給予特別的支持我想在這個過程當中我們全力支持但是我們談判團隊包含跨部會在內我們一定全力努力持續以越快速度越好來持續推進談判爭取最後的總結會議來完成這個協議\n所以我們其實一直都是按照這個國際規範在走一定要等一定有一個定案之後我們才能夠公開相關的細節我想全世界都是如此那有沒有哪個國家的這個國會議員會在談判當中一再要求這個行政團隊談判團隊把這個細節公開目前有嗎 目前看起來好像是沒有就只有台灣這麼做\n美國這次跟各國談判都簽有保密協議那當然我們為了尊重大院這個協議其實也是規範就是在談判過程當中相關的文件因為有許多的談判的議題其實在磋商中也許有共識但是最後在整體總結的時候會在整體進行最後的定案\n那所以的確各國也都依照國際談判的慣例跟這個保密的協議相關在進行但是我們為了尊重大院也在大院機密會議的安排底下來出示相關的保密的會議那不過的確因為現在許多國家達成協議大家看到相關的談判條件也會想要了解我方\n談判的情形我們充分的理解社會需要資訊國會需要資訊所以我們行政院在所有可能的範圍能夠公開說明的我們一定善盡說明的責任\n好的 謝謝副院長的這個說明那再來就是說剛剛也有委員在關心就是前兩天有這個媒體以獨家報導的這個方式報導裡面特別還提到說是收到經濟部內部的資訊所以裡面還提及了談判的過程美國要求我方取消哪些商品品項的關稅甚至有提到我方對美投資方面的承諾等等\n雖然後來我們行政院經貿工作小組有澄清說其實這是不實的報導也沒有跟我們這裡做過求證裡面的項目跟談判的內容是有所出入的可是媒體所提到的經濟部內部所提供的資訊到目前為止已經事情過了兩天了我們行政單位到底有沒有去了解是不是就是從經濟部裡面流出來的呢有了解過嗎\n跟委員報告那經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼完全全面的資料那所以這個報導其實是不確實的確實可是他特別有提到是經濟部內部流出來的這個管道到底是誰是哪個單位這邊有去了解過嗎\n是 我們也在瞭解中 還在瞭解當中所以到目前還不是很清楚到底怎麼回事但是很確實 很確定的是說我們經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼全面的資料像委員來補充說明 談判小組除了我跟楊振偉之外其實包含了跨部會經濟部 農業部 衛福部 財政部等等還有外交部 國安會等等許多的部會\n那談判的範疇包含關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全採購投資等等等等所以其實各部會參與各部會的部分那目前看我們當天看到這個新聞我們有了解行政院經貿辦經濟部等各部會都沒有收到查證\n所以我想這裡面有些數字並不是向部會查證之後來做報導所以裡面也有一些資訊跟談判的情形有所出入我們還是希望說國人給予我們一些時間讓我們加速談判\n那談判我們一旦跟美方達成協議我們一定會先公佈所有談判的內容跟細節那這個過程我們必須做一定的這樣的一個期待是希望說有一些過度的揭露是不是可能最終會影響我們談判雙方條件的磋商\n像後續我們要談判相關的供應鏈的合作232的相關關稅然後如果達成共識希望對等關稅能夠再降那這些談判桌上可能的條件現在如果過度的揭露是不是也會成為我們未來談判的變數我想這一點還要請大院跟社會能夠理解那我們一定在一旦有共識跟達成協議的時候我們一定會完整的提供說明向社會也會將協議送大院來審議\n也會一併提出衝擊影響評估我再請問副院長如果到時查出來真的是從經濟部裡面揭露出來的話那會有懲處嗎 請問\n譬如說它裡面提供目前為止都說裡面的資訊其實是有跟原本談判的內容其實是有出入的表示說萬一如果說真的是從經濟部裡面洩露出來的這會不會是說造成人心不安的一個\n報告委員任何公務員從事國家公務的行為都有一定的準則跟規範公務員服務法有任何違法的那我們就依法來處理但我認為跟媒體的溝通我們要做得更確實\n因為如果平常建立媒體有這種查證的程序的話很多的誤會就不會發生所以我也要求各部會以後加強跟媒體各項聯絡跟服務我們用最真實的面貌來向國人來論述我們所有的施政結果\nOK 好了解那剛剛副院長還有提到就是說未來我們關稅的協議的文本呢將會送到這個立法院來做審議那行政單位會不會擔心就是說立法院到時會推翻原定的這個協議的內容有沒有可能\n那當然不是說協議的內容不能夠提出意見萬一在野正義為反對而反對難道我們還要跟美國重新來談判嗎?有可能嗎?美國會理會台灣嗎?大院在2015年已經訂有這個條約締結法那我想貴我兩院就依條約締結法相關的法律規範來進行\n那條約締結法第三條有對條約有所定義裡面涉及國防外交財政經濟重要事項都是稱為條約那尤其如果未來在關稅的部分有所變動的話那關稅也有涉及相關關稅的法律那這些我們都會依照法律來進行\n那條約締結法第八條也清楚的規範這個條約簽署之後會要送國會來這個審議那當然第十條也有相關國會審議相關的條文我想這些法律都可以供委員這邊來參考那不過這一次的談判我要強調的是它跟過去傳統的經貿談判不一樣\n過去傳統經貿盤可能歷時多年但是這一次是在幾個月內美國跟所有國家一起進行談判那談判必須有這個各個範疇關稅費關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全等等投資等等各項議題也有相關對等貿易協議的各項的條文要逐條的磋商這些技術性磋商完了之後我們同時\n跟貿易代表組磋商完我們要跟商務部來進行未來供應鏈232的討論來進行一個總結的一個會議那最後總結的會議也要看美方他怎麼樣來安排這個形式來進行所以我想這個談判跟過去的經貿談判的形式是有所不同的屆時我們再請國會來這個云與整體的考量但是我們也會善盡行政院向國會報告以及提供衝擊影響評估並把所有的資訊送交國會來審議的責任\nOK好謝謝那也是要等到最終可能九月底十月以後的事情了嗎一切等談判結束前後我剛剛所提的這個時程是參考這個美國財政部長BesantMr.Besant他的一個說法那但是以我方的立場當然是我們希望能夠越快越好那不過的確談判有時候取決於雙方例如說最後總結性會議的安排\n我們也必須要跟美方來進行就形式的討論所以我想我們就是全力朝這個目標來推進\nOK好最後一個問題我想請教的就是說我們為了因應美國對等關稅帶來的這個產業的衝擊那經濟部呢他有提了四大方向就是包含用AI來降成本去美國設這個產業園區鼓勵業者生耕利基市場還有協助升級轉型等等那本是想請教的去美國設產業園區這個部分其實也就是我們談判的一個很重要的一個一個項目跟籌碼之一嘛對不對因為我們既然已經提出來了\n其實外界都關心說那為什麼台美還沒達成協議其實就是我們一再的說明因為我們的逆差結構有九成來自半導體ICT那這個在232調查項目中那將這個對等關稅跟232並談的像日韓歐盟美方也清楚的跟我們表達他們涉及的232項目相對比我們單純\n他們也許是汽車也許是鋼品等等等等那我方是聚焦在半導體跟ICT那這個部分的232關稅在美方的政策屬於未定他們的稅率政策還在變動中所以雙方必須就供應鏈合作跟232後續我們也希望爭取優惠一併討論\n所以我們的確也正在跟我們的高科技業者座談來瞭解大家的想法整合大家的共識我們希望能夠透過後續的談判能夠雙方台美供應鏈有一個好的合作然後爭取232的優惠一旦在這個部分達成共識我們同時能夠進入總結會議爭取再降對等關稅並且不疊加\n所以這裡面核心的議題的確也是供應鏈的我們在國際尤其在美國擴大的佈局那我想台美的高科技產業過去長期是互補的美國在創新研發非常的強台灣是我們的製造非常的強所以如果我們的製造在美國能夠來結合他們當地的技術研發能力市場跟人才我想也是我們一個有利的一個國際佈局\n所以未來的談判應該要朝向雙方互補互利合作的方式來深入討論這個供應鏈合作的佈局那我方高科技產業的發展一個很重要的經驗也是來自於我們產業園區 科學園區政府跟產業界協力合作的模式\n所以這一次除了企業如果赴美投資如果政府未來也能夠協助我們落地的企業能夠打造一個更好的投資環境公平的環境我們也透過這樣的產業聚落的方式為他們爭取更好的在美國給予的協助跟條件讓他們能夠得到更好的基礎建設然後能夠更好的一個投資優惠的環境我想對我們的產業的國際布局也是有利的\n所以這個都在我們後續的談判範疇當中所以這個去美國社產業園區就是我們的籌碼之一當然剛才副院長講得非常的清楚可能還是以高科技產業到那裡去做投資呢作為這個好\n謝謝羅委員 謝謝左院長還有副院長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.800 --> 00:09.726\n謝謝主席有請卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長鄭副院長備詢陸委員好\n\n00:23.221 --> 00:37.768\n院長好副院長午安雖然說百分之二十的台美關稅在八月七號的時候就已經生效了可是基本上呢這是一個暫時性的這個稅率那整個談判過程都還在進行當中那剛剛\n\n00:38.928 --> 00:58.866\n副院長或者是之前我有聽到就是美方這邊的報導說也許九月份或十月份我們就會有一個最終的這個結果那談判團隊也一直強調說我們會努力來爭取這個不疊加然後甚至呢比百分之二十還要低的這個稅率喔那既然這是一個還在進行當中的這個談判\n\n00:59.747 --> 01:22.938\n那基於這個國際談判的原則都會簽署這個保密協議要等到整個談判有了最後的結果我們才能夠公布這個談判的細節可是我們看到在野的這個立委他根本是不顧國際談判的這個規範然後甚至誣導民眾說這整個談判其實是一個黑箱的作業那要求公開這個談判的內容\n\n01:24.099 --> 01:48.772\n那除了今天的院會那本席呢發現在這之前有好幾個委員會其實已經開過超過十場以上的這個安排了這十場以上的這個相關的這個議程了所以要求這個談判團隊呢來做備詢所以委員會問不夠今天在院會還要再來加開再來詢問所以本席想請教啊這個就是一個非常普遍的一個問題我想請教院長副院長\n\n01:49.312 --> 01:56.143\n如果我们片面公开这相关的细节的话对于我们这次或未来的国际谈判会有什么样不利的影响\n\n01:56.869 --> 02:20.412\n談判的壓力我請副院長來答覆謝謝羅委員來還原事實上我們在歷次的實體談判之後都有發布新聞稿各部委員都到委員會備詢那的確現在因為有時間差因為許多國家達成協議那我方是還沒達成協議先從32降到20所以現在我們大家看到各國公佈的談判條件是因為他們跟美方達成協議\n\n02:21.633 --> 02:37.562\n所以達成協議之後他們會由美方雙方公佈聯合聲明來羅列相關談判條件或由白宮來公佈事實文件來公佈這個談判條件或是由川普總統本人宣佈這個協議的相關的重點內容\n\n02:38.562 --> 02:53.491\n所以我們看到各國公布這些內容都是在達成協議之後比較完整的說明裡面涉及的所有的談判條件所以我方現在因為還在談判中我們現在的稅率是一個階段性的稅率\n\n02:54.171 --> 03:15.008\n所以屆時如果達成協議之後呢雙方也會先來公布相關的談判條件那之後完成了協議的簽署那麼我們依照條約締結法的這個第八條條約簽署之後呢報行政院就會來送國會來進行審議我想我們一切都是依照條約締結法依法來進行\n\n03:17.910 --> 03:45.019\n這個過程的確我們現在還在繼續談判中但我們也了解產業社會需要更清楚的資訊所以我們也願意善盡說明的責任不管是來大院或是記者會或是我們已經跟產業界有許多的座談持續的來進行說明讓大家更了解我們在MFN加對等關稅20%受到的衝擊裡面政府可以來給予什麼樣的支持\n\n03:45.629 --> 04:02.309\n尤其針對裡面衝擊比較大的像工具機機械或蝴蝶籃鬼頭刀等等這些衝擊較大而且對於競爭國而言相對它的稅率對競爭國產生比較競爭劣勢的特定的產業我想院長也有特地安排行程面對面的來聽取\n\n04:04.332 --> 04:20.219\n聽聽業者的聲音那我們行政院會再給予特別的支持我想在這個過程當中我們全力支持但是我們談判團隊包含跨部會在內我們一定全力努力持續以越快速度越好來持續推進談判爭取最後的總結會議來完成這個協議\n\n04:23.385 --> 04:46.341\n所以我們其實一直都是按照這個國際規範在走一定要等一定有一個定案之後我們才能夠公開相關的細節我想全世界都是如此那有沒有哪個國家的這個國會議員會在談判當中一再要求這個行政團隊談判團隊把這個細節公開目前有嗎目前看起來好像是沒有就只有台灣這麼做\n\n04:47.482 --> 05:08.863\n美國這次跟各國談判都簽有保密協議那當然我們為了尊重大院這個協議其實也是規範就是在談判過程當中相關的文件因為有許多的談判的議題其實在磋商中也許有共識但是最後在整體總結的時候會在整體進行最後的定案\n\n05:09.443 --> 05:28.824\n那所以的確各國也都依照國際談判的慣例跟這個保密的協議相關在進行但是我們為了尊重大院也在大院機密會議的安排底下來出示相關的保密的會議那不過的確因為現在許多國家達成協議大家看到相關的談判條件也會想要了解我方\n\n05:29.504 --> 05:39.753\n談判的情形我們充分的理解社會需要資訊國會需要資訊所以我們行政院在所有可能的範圍能夠公開說明的我們一定善盡說明的責任\n\n05:40.906 --> 06:04.713\n好的謝謝副院長的這個說明那再來就是說剛剛也有委員在關心就是前兩天有這個媒體以獨家報導的這個方式報導裡面特別還提到說是收到經濟部內部的資訊所以裡面還提及了談判的過程美國要求我方取消哪些商品品項的關稅甚至有提到我方對美投資方面的承諾等等\n\n06:05.713 --> 06:33.982\n雖然後來我們行政院經貿工作小組有澄清說其實這是不實的報導也沒有跟我們這裡做過求證裡面的項目跟談判的內容是有所出入的可是媒體所提到的經濟部內部所提供的資訊到目前為止已經事情過了兩天了我們行政單位到底有沒有去了解是不是就是從經濟部裡面流出來的呢有了解過嗎\n\n06:36.554 --> 06:54.253\n跟委員報告那經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼完全全面的資料那所以這個報導其實是不確實的確實可是他特別有提到是經濟部內部流出來的這個管道到底是誰是哪個單位這邊有去了解過嗎\n\n06:55.194 --> 07:17.380\n是我們也在瞭解中還在瞭解當中所以到目前還不是很清楚到底怎麼回事但是很確實很確定的是說我們經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼全面的資料像委員來補充說明談判小組除了我跟楊振偉之外其實包含了跨部會經濟部農業部衛福部財政部等等還有外交部國安會等等許多的部會\n\n07:18.240 --> 07:36.621\n那談判的範疇包含關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全採購投資等等等等所以其實各部會參與各部會的部分那目前看我們當天看到這個新聞我們有了解行政院經貿辦經濟部等各部會都沒有收到查證\n\n07:37.731 --> 07:52.707\n所以我想這裡面有些數字並不是向部會查證之後來做報導所以裡面也有一些資訊跟談判的情形有所出入我們還是希望說國人給予我們一些時間讓我們加速談判\n\n07:53.408 --> 08:12.766\n那談判我們一旦跟美方達成協議我們一定會先公佈所有談判的內容跟細節那這個過程我們必須做一定的這樣的一個期待是希望說有一些過度的揭露是不是可能最終會影響我們談判雙方條件的磋商\n\n08:13.587 --> 08:41.481\n像後續我們要談判相關的供應鏈的合作232的相關關稅然後如果達成共識希望對等關稅能夠再降那這些談判桌上可能的條件現在如果過度的揭露是不是也會成為我們未來談判的變數我想這一點還要請大院跟社會能夠理解那我們一定在一旦有共識跟達成協議的時候我們一定會完整的提供說明向社會也會將協議送大院來審議\n\n08:42.461 --> 08:52.577\n也會一併提出衝擊影響評估我再請問副院長如果到時查出來真的是從經濟部裡面揭露出來的話那會有懲處嗎請問\n\n08:56.843 --> 09:14.676\n譬如說它裡面提供目前為止都說裡面的資訊其實是有跟原本談判的內容其實是有出入的表示說萬一如果說真的是從經濟部裡面洩露出來的這會不會是說造成人心不安的一個\n\n09:16.565 --> 09:30.807\n報告委員任何公務員從事國家公務的行為都有一定的準則跟規範公務員服務法有任何違法的那我們就依法來處理但我認為跟媒體的溝通我們要做得更確實\n\n09:31.989 --> 09:49.891\n因為如果平常建立媒體有這種查證的程序的話很多的誤會就不會發生所以我也要求各部會以後加強跟媒體各項聯絡跟服務我們用最真實的面貌來向國人來論述我們所有的施政結果\n\n09:50.626 --> 10:05.752\nOK好了解那剛剛副院長還有提到就是說未來我們關稅的協議的文本呢將會送到這個立法院來做審議那行政單位會不會擔心就是說立法院到時會推翻原定的這個協議的內容有沒有可能\n\n10:06.292 --> 10:21.620\n那當然不是說協議的內容不能夠提出意見萬一在野正義為反對而反對難道我們還要跟美國重新來談判嗎?有可能嗎?美國會理會台灣嗎?大院在2015年已經訂有這個條約締結法那我想貴我兩院就依條約締結法相關的法律規範來進行\n\n10:31.946 --> 10:49.533\n那條約締結法第三條有對條約有所定義裡面涉及國防外交財政經濟重要事項都是稱為條約那尤其如果未來在關稅的部分有所變動的話那關稅也有涉及相關關稅的法律那這些我們都會依照法律來進行\n\n10:50.014 --> 11:07.792\n那條約締結法第八條也清楚的規範這個條約簽署之後會要送國會來這個審議那當然第十條也有相關國會審議相關的條文我想這些法律都可以供委員這邊來參考那不過這一次的談判我要強調的是它跟過去傳統的經貿談判不一樣\n\n11:09.554 --> 11:31.856\n過去傳統經貿盤可能歷時多年但是這一次是在幾個月內美國跟所有國家一起進行談判那談判必須有這個各個範疇關稅費關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全等等投資等等各項議題也有相關對等貿易協議的各項的條文要逐條的磋商這些技術性磋商完了之後我們同時\n\n11:32.817 --> 11:59.525\n跟貿易代表組磋商完我們要跟商務部來進行未來供應鏈232的討論來進行一個總結的一個會議那最後總結的會議也要看美方他怎麼樣來安排這個形式來進行所以我想這個談判跟過去的經貿談判的形式是有所不同的屆時我們再請國會來這個云與整體的考量但是我們也會善盡行政院向國會報告以及提供衝擊影響評估並把所有的資訊送交國會來審議的責任\n\n12:01.212 --> 12:26.649\nOK好謝謝那也是要等到最終可能九月底十月以後的事情了嗎一切等談判結束前後我剛剛所提的這個時程是參考這個美國財政部長BesantMr.Besant他的一個說法那但是以我方的立場當然是我們希望能夠越快越好那不過的確談判有時候取決於雙方例如說最後總結性會議的安排\n\n12:27.089 --> 12:32.337\n我們也必須要跟美方來進行就形式的討論所以我想我們就是全力朝這個目標來推進\n\n12:33.939 --> 13:01.059\nOK好最後一個問題我想請教的就是說我們為了因應美國對等關稅帶來的這個產業的衝擊那經濟部呢他有提了四大方向就是包含用AI來降成本去美國設這個產業園區鼓勵業者生耕利基市場還有協助升級轉型等等那本是想請教的去美國設產業園區這個部分其實也就是我們談判的一個很重要的一個一個項目跟籌碼之一嘛對不對因為我們既然已經提出來了\n\n13:01.980 --> 13:23.111\n其實外界都關心說那為什麼台美還沒達成協議其實就是我們一再的說明因為我們的逆差結構有九成來自半導體ICT那這個在232調查項目中那將這個對等關稅跟232並談的像日韓歐盟美方也清楚的跟我們表達他們涉及的232項目相對比我們單純\n\n13:24.232 --> 13:42.467\n他們也許是汽車也許是鋼品等等等等那我方是聚焦在半導體跟ICT那這個部分的232關稅在美方的政策屬於未定他們的稅率政策還在變動中所以雙方必須就供應鏈合作跟232後續我們也希望爭取優惠一併討論\n\n13:43.948 --> 14:04.916\n所以我們的確也正在跟我們的高科技業者座談來瞭解大家的想法整合大家的共識我們希望能夠透過後續的談判能夠雙方台美供應鏈有一個好的合作然後爭取232的優惠一旦在這個部分達成共識我們同時能夠進入總結會議爭取再降對等關稅並且不疊加\n\n14:05.495 --> 14:29.710\n所以這裡面核心的議題的確也是供應鏈的我們在國際尤其在美國擴大的佈局那我想台美的高科技產業過去長期是互補的美國在創新研發非常的強台灣是我們的製造非常的強所以如果我們的製造在美國能夠來結合他們當地的技術研發能力市場跟人才我想也是我們一個有利的一個國際佈局\n\n14:30.791 --> 14:46.017\n所以未來的談判應該要朝向雙方互補互利合作的方式來深入討論這個供應鏈合作的佈局那我方高科技產業的發展一個很重要的經驗也是來自於我們產業園區科學園區政府跟產業界協力合作的模式\n\n14:46.517 --> 15:11.833\n所以這一次除了企業如果赴美投資如果政府未來也能夠協助我們落地的企業能夠打造一個更好的投資環境公平的環境我們也透過這樣的產業聚落的方式為他們爭取更好的在美國給予的協助跟條件讓他們能夠得到更好的基礎建設然後能夠更好的一個投資優惠的環境我想對我們的產業的國際布局也是有利的\n\n15:12.193 --> 15:25.779\n所以這個都在我們後續的談判範疇當中所以這個去美國社產業園區就是我們的籌碼之一當然剛才副院長講得非常的清楚可能還是以高科技產業到那裡去做投資呢作為這個好\n\n15:43.556 --> 15:45.318\n謝謝羅委員謝謝左院長還有副院長\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.8,"end":9.726,"text":"謝謝主席有請卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長 鄭副院長備詢陸委員好"},{"start":23.221,"end":37.768,"text":"院長好 副院長午安雖然說百分之二十的台美關稅在八月七號的時候就已經生效了可是基本上呢這是一個暫時性的這個稅率那整個談判過程都還在進行當中那剛剛"},{"start":38.928,"end":58.866,"text":"副院長或者是之前我有聽到就是美方這邊的報導說也許九月份或十月份我們就會有一個最終的這個結果那談判團隊也一直強調說我們會努力來爭取這個不疊加然後甚至呢比百分之二十還要低的這個稅率喔那既然這是一個還在進行當中的這個談判"},{"start":59.747,"end":82.938,"text":"那基於這個國際談判的原則都會簽署這個保密協議要等到整個談判有了最後的結果我們才能夠公布這個談判的細節可是我們看到在野的這個立委他根本是不顧國際談判的這個規範然後甚至誣導民眾說這整個談判其實是一個黑箱的作業那要求公開這個談判的內容"},{"start":84.099,"end":108.772,"text":"那除了今天的院會那本席呢發現在這之前有好幾個委員會其實已經開過超過十場以上的這個安排了這十場以上的這個相關的這個議程了所以要求這個談判團隊呢來做備詢所以委員會問不夠今天在院會還要再來加開再來詢問所以本席想請教啊這個就是一個非常普遍的一個問題我想請教院長副院長"},{"start":109.312,"end":116.143,"text":"如果我们片面公开这相关的细节的话对于我们这次或未来的国际谈判会有什么样不利的影响"},{"start":116.869,"end":140.412,"text":"談判的壓力我請副院長來答覆謝謝羅委員來還原事實上我們在歷次的實體談判之後都有發布新聞稿各部委員都到委員會備詢那的確現在因為有時間差因為許多國家達成協議那我方是還沒達成協議先從32降到20所以現在我們大家看到各國公佈的談判條件是因為他們跟美方達成協議"},{"start":141.633,"end":157.562,"text":"所以達成協議之後他們會由美方雙方公佈聯合聲明來羅列相關談判條件或由白宮來公佈事實文件來公佈這個談判條件或是由川普總統本人宣佈這個協議的相關的重點內容"},{"start":158.562,"end":173.491,"text":"所以我們看到各國公布這些內容都是在達成協議之後比較完整的說明裡面涉及的所有的談判條件所以我方現在因為還在談判中我們現在的稅率是一個階段性的稅率"},{"start":174.171,"end":195.008,"text":"所以屆時如果達成協議之後呢雙方也會先來公布相關的談判條件那之後完成了協議的簽署那麼我們依照條約締結法的這個第八條條約簽署之後呢報行政院就會來送國會來進行審議我想我們一切都是依照條約締結法依法來進行"},{"start":197.91,"end":225.019,"text":"這個過程的確我們現在還在繼續談判中但我們也了解產業社會需要更清楚的資訊所以我們也願意善盡說明的責任不管是來大院或是記者會或是我們已經跟產業界有許多的座談持續的來進行說明讓大家更了解我們在MFN加對等關稅20%受到的衝擊裡面政府可以來給予什麼樣的支持"},{"start":225.629,"end":242.309,"text":"尤其針對裡面衝擊比較大的像工具機 機械或蝴蝶籃 鬼頭刀等等這些衝擊較大而且對於競爭國而言相對它的稅率對競爭國產生比較競爭劣勢的特定的產業我想院長也有特地安排行程面對面的來聽取"},{"start":244.332,"end":260.219,"text":"聽聽業者的聲音那我們行政院會再給予特別的支持我想在這個過程當中我們全力支持但是我們談判團隊包含跨部會在內我們一定全力努力持續以越快速度越好來持續推進談判爭取最後的總結會議來完成這個協議"},{"start":263.385,"end":286.341,"text":"所以我們其實一直都是按照這個國際規範在走一定要等一定有一個定案之後我們才能夠公開相關的細節我想全世界都是如此那有沒有哪個國家的這個國會議員會在談判當中一再要求這個行政團隊談判團隊把這個細節公開目前有嗎 目前看起來好像是沒有就只有台灣這麼做"},{"start":287.482,"end":308.863,"text":"美國這次跟各國談判都簽有保密協議那當然我們為了尊重大院這個協議其實也是規範就是在談判過程當中相關的文件因為有許多的談判的議題其實在磋商中也許有共識但是最後在整體總結的時候會在整體進行最後的定案"},{"start":309.443,"end":328.824,"text":"那所以的確各國也都依照國際談判的慣例跟這個保密的協議相關在進行但是我們為了尊重大院也在大院機密會議的安排底下來出示相關的保密的會議那不過的確因為現在許多國家達成協議大家看到相關的談判條件也會想要了解我方"},{"start":329.504,"end":339.753,"text":"談判的情形我們充分的理解社會需要資訊國會需要資訊所以我們行政院在所有可能的範圍能夠公開說明的我們一定善盡說明的責任"},{"start":340.906,"end":364.713,"text":"好的 謝謝副院長的這個說明那再來就是說剛剛也有委員在關心就是前兩天有這個媒體以獨家報導的這個方式報導裡面特別還提到說是收到經濟部內部的資訊所以裡面還提及了談判的過程美國要求我方取消哪些商品品項的關稅甚至有提到我方對美投資方面的承諾等等"},{"start":365.713,"end":393.982,"text":"雖然後來我們行政院經貿工作小組有澄清說其實這是不實的報導也沒有跟我們這裡做過求證裡面的項目跟談判的內容是有所出入的可是媒體所提到的經濟部內部所提供的資訊到目前為止已經事情過了兩天了我們行政單位到底有沒有去了解是不是就是從經濟部裡面流出來的呢有了解過嗎"},{"start":396.554,"end":414.253,"text":"跟委員報告那經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼完全全面的資料那所以這個報導其實是不確實的確實可是他特別有提到是經濟部內部流出來的這個管道到底是誰是哪個單位這邊有去了解過嗎"},{"start":415.194,"end":437.38,"text":"是 我們也在瞭解中 還在瞭解當中所以到目前還不是很清楚到底怎麼回事但是很確實 很確定的是說我們經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼全面的資料像委員來補充說明 談判小組除了我跟楊振偉之外其實包含了跨部會經濟部 農業部 衛福部 財政部等等還有外交部 國安會等等許多的部會"},{"start":438.24,"end":456.621,"text":"那談判的範疇包含關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全採購投資等等等等所以其實各部會參與各部會的部分那目前看我們當天看到這個新聞我們有了解行政院經貿辦經濟部等各部會都沒有收到查證"},{"start":457.731,"end":472.707,"text":"所以我想這裡面有些數字並不是向部會查證之後來做報導所以裡面也有一些資訊跟談判的情形有所出入我們還是希望說國人給予我們一些時間讓我們加速談判"},{"start":473.408,"end":492.766,"text":"那談判我們一旦跟美方達成協議我們一定會先公佈所有談判的內容跟細節那這個過程我們必須做一定的這樣的一個期待是希望說有一些過度的揭露是不是可能最終會影響我們談判雙方條件的磋商"},{"start":493.587,"end":521.481,"text":"像後續我們要談判相關的供應鏈的合作232的相關關稅然後如果達成共識希望對等關稅能夠再降那這些談判桌上可能的條件現在如果過度的揭露是不是也會成為我們未來談判的變數我想這一點還要請大院跟社會能夠理解那我們一定在一旦有共識跟達成協議的時候我們一定會完整的提供說明向社會也會將協議送大院來審議"},{"start":522.461,"end":532.577,"text":"也會一併提出衝擊影響評估我再請問副院長如果到時查出來真的是從經濟部裡面揭露出來的話那會有懲處嗎 請問"},{"start":536.843,"end":554.676,"text":"譬如說它裡面提供目前為止都說裡面的資訊其實是有跟原本談判的內容其實是有出入的表示說萬一如果說真的是從經濟部裡面洩露出來的這會不會是說造成人心不安的一個"},{"start":556.565,"end":570.807,"text":"報告委員任何公務員從事國家公務的行為都有一定的準則跟規範公務員服務法有任何違法的那我們就依法來處理但我認為跟媒體的溝通我們要做得更確實"},{"start":571.989,"end":589.891,"text":"因為如果平常建立媒體有這種查證的程序的話很多的誤會就不會發生所以我也要求各部會以後加強跟媒體各項聯絡跟服務我們用最真實的面貌來向國人來論述我們所有的施政結果"},{"start":590.626,"end":605.752,"text":"OK 好了解那剛剛副院長還有提到就是說未來我們關稅的協議的文本呢將會送到這個立法院來做審議那行政單位會不會擔心就是說立法院到時會推翻原定的這個協議的內容有沒有可能"},{"start":606.292,"end":621.62,"text":"那當然不是說協議的內容不能夠提出意見萬一在野正義為反對而反對難道我們還要跟美國重新來談判嗎?有可能嗎?美國會理會台灣嗎?大院在2015年已經訂有這個條約締結法那我想貴我兩院就依條約締結法相關的法律規範來進行"},{"start":631.946,"end":649.533,"text":"那條約締結法第三條有對條約有所定義裡面涉及國防外交財政經濟重要事項都是稱為條約那尤其如果未來在關稅的部分有所變動的話那關稅也有涉及相關關稅的法律那這些我們都會依照法律來進行"},{"start":650.014,"end":667.792,"text":"那條約締結法第八條也清楚的規範這個條約簽署之後會要送國會來這個審議那當然第十條也有相關國會審議相關的條文我想這些法律都可以供委員這邊來參考那不過這一次的談判我要強調的是它跟過去傳統的經貿談判不一樣"},{"start":669.554,"end":691.856,"text":"過去傳統經貿盤可能歷時多年但是這一次是在幾個月內美國跟所有國家一起進行談判那談判必須有這個各個範疇關稅費關稅貿易障礙貿易變節化經濟安全等等投資等等各項議題也有相關對等貿易協議的各項的條文要逐條的磋商這些技術性磋商完了之後我們同時"},{"start":692.817,"end":719.525,"text":"跟貿易代表組磋商完我們要跟商務部來進行未來供應鏈232的討論來進行一個總結的一個會議那最後總結的會議也要看美方他怎麼樣來安排這個形式來進行所以我想這個談判跟過去的經貿談判的形式是有所不同的屆時我們再請國會來這個云與整體的考量但是我們也會善盡行政院向國會報告以及提供衝擊影響評估並把所有的資訊送交國會來審議的責任"},{"start":721.212,"end":746.649,"text":"OK好謝謝那也是要等到最終可能九月底十月以後的事情了嗎一切等談判結束前後我剛剛所提的這個時程是參考這個美國財政部長BesantMr.Besant他的一個說法那但是以我方的立場當然是我們希望能夠越快越好那不過的確談判有時候取決於雙方例如說最後總結性會議的安排"},{"start":747.089,"end":752.337,"text":"我們也必須要跟美方來進行就形式的討論所以我想我們就是全力朝這個目標來推進"},{"start":753.939,"end":781.059,"text":"OK好最後一個問題我想請教的就是說我們為了因應美國對等關稅帶來的這個產業的衝擊那經濟部呢他有提了四大方向就是包含用AI來降成本去美國設這個產業園區鼓勵業者生耕利基市場還有協助升級轉型等等那本是想請教的去美國設產業園區這個部分其實也就是我們談判的一個很重要的一個一個項目跟籌碼之一嘛對不對因為我們既然已經提出來了"},{"start":781.98,"end":803.111,"text":"其實外界都關心說那為什麼台美還沒達成協議其實就是我們一再的說明因為我們的逆差結構有九成來自半導體ICT那這個在232調查項目中那將這個對等關稅跟232並談的像日韓歐盟美方也清楚的跟我們表達他們涉及的232項目相對比我們單純"},{"start":804.232,"end":822.467,"text":"他們也許是汽車也許是鋼品等等等等那我方是聚焦在半導體跟ICT那這個部分的232關稅在美方的政策屬於未定他們的稅率政策還在變動中所以雙方必須就供應鏈合作跟232後續我們也希望爭取優惠一併討論"},{"start":823.948,"end":844.916,"text":"所以我們的確也正在跟我們的高科技業者座談來瞭解大家的想法整合大家的共識我們希望能夠透過後續的談判能夠雙方台美供應鏈有一個好的合作然後爭取232的優惠一旦在這個部分達成共識我們同時能夠進入總結會議爭取再降對等關稅並且不疊加"},{"start":845.495,"end":869.71,"text":"所以這裡面核心的議題的確也是供應鏈的我們在國際尤其在美國擴大的佈局那我想台美的高科技產業過去長期是互補的美國在創新研發非常的強台灣是我們的製造非常的強所以如果我們的製造在美國能夠來結合他們當地的技術研發能力市場跟人才我想也是我們一個有利的一個國際佈局"},{"start":870.791,"end":886.017,"text":"所以未來的談判應該要朝向雙方互補互利合作的方式來深入討論這個供應鏈合作的佈局那我方高科技產業的發展一個很重要的經驗也是來自於我們產業園區 科學園區政府跟產業界協力合作的模式"},{"start":886.517,"end":911.833,"text":"所以這一次除了企業如果赴美投資如果政府未來也能夠協助我們落地的企業能夠打造一個更好的投資環境公平的環境我們也透過這樣的產業聚落的方式為他們爭取更好的在美國給予的協助跟條件讓他們能夠得到更好的基礎建設然後能夠更好的一個投資優惠的環境我想對我們的產業的國際布局也是有利的"},{"start":912.193,"end":925.779,"text":"所以這個都在我們後續的談判範疇當中所以這個去美國社產業園區就是我們的籌碼之一當然剛才副院長講得非常的清楚可能還是以高科技產業到那裡去做投資呢作為這個好"},{"start":943.556,"end":945.318,"text":"謝謝羅委員 謝謝左院長還有副院長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":804,"blocks":[["羅委員美玲：（11時24分）謝謝主席。有請卓院長，還有鄭副院長。"],["主席：請卓院長，鄭副院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：羅委員好。"],["羅委員美玲：院長好、副院長午安。雖然20%的臺美關稅在8月7日的時候就已經生效了，可是基本上這是一個暫時性的稅率，整個談判過程都還在進行當中，剛剛副院長或是之前我有聽到美方這邊的報導說，也許9月份或10月份就會有一個最終結果，談判團隊也一直強調我們會努力爭取不疊加，甚至比20%還要低的稅率。既然這是一個還在進行當中的談判，基於國際談判的原則，都會簽署保密協議，要等到整個談判有了最後的結果，才能夠公布談判的細節。可是我們看到在野的立委根本不顧國際談判規範，甚至誤導民眾說這整個談判其實是一個黑箱作業，要求公開談判內容，除了今天的院會，本席發現在這之前，有好幾個委員會其實已經開過、安排超過10場以上的相關議程，要求談判團隊備詢，委員會問不夠，今天還要加開院會再來詢問，所以本席想請教院長、副院長一個非常普遍的問題，如果我們片面公開相關細節，對於這次或未來的國際談判會有什麼樣不利的影響？"],["卓院長榮泰：談判的壓力，我請副院長來答復。"],["鄭副院長麗君：謝謝羅委員的還原，事實上，我們在歷次的實體談判之後都有發布新聞稿，各部會也都有到委員會備詢，的確現在因為有時間差，許多國家已達成協議，而我方是還沒有達成協議，是先從32%降到20%，所以現在大家看到各國公布的談判條件，是因為他們跟美方達成協議，達成協議之後，就會由雙方公布聯合聲明羅列相關談判條件，或由白宮公布fact sheet（事實文件）來公布談判條件，或是由川普總統本人宣布協議的相關重點內容，所以我們看到各國公布的這些內容，都是在達成協議之後，比較完整的說明裡面涉及的所有談判條件，但因為我方現在還在談判中，所以我們現在的稅率是一個階段性稅率，屆時如果達成協議，雙方也會先公布相關談判條件，之後完成了協議的簽署，我們會依照條約締結法第八條規定，條約簽署之後會報行政院，然後送國會進行審議，我想我們一切都是依照條約締結法依法進行這個過程。","的確，我們現在還在繼續談判中，但我們也了解產業、社會需要更清楚的資訊，所以我們也願意善盡說明的責任，不管是來大院備詢、開記者會，或是我們已經跟產業界有許多的座談，都會持續進行說明，讓大家更了解我們在MFN加對等關稅20%受到的衝擊中，政府可以給予什麼樣的支持，尤其針對像工具機、機械、蝴蝶蘭或鬼頭刀等等這些衝擊比較大的，對於競爭國而言，相對它的稅率對競爭國產生比較競爭劣勢的特定產業，我想院長也有特地安排行程面對面的聽取、傾聽業者的聲音，行政院會再給予特別的支持，我想在這個過程當中，我們會全力支持，但是我們的談判團隊，包含跨部會在內，一定全力努力，持續以越快速度越好來推進談判，爭取最後的總結會議來完成協議。"],["羅委員美玲：是，所以我們其實一直都是按照國際規範在走，一定要等有一個定案之後，才能夠公開相關細節。我想全世界都是如此，請問，有沒有哪個國家的國會議員會在談判當中，一再要求行政團隊、談判團隊把細節公開？目前有嗎？目前看起來好像沒有，就只有臺灣這麼做，對不對？"],["鄭副院長麗君：美國這次跟各國談判都簽有保密協議，當然我們為了尊重大院……"],["羅委員美玲：所以大家都很清楚，這是不能夠說的。"],["鄭副院長麗君：對，這個協議其實也是規範在談判過程當中相關的文件跟……因為有許多談判的議題，其實在磋商中也許有共識，但最後在總結的時候，會再整體進行最後定案，的確，各國也都依照國際談判慣例跟保密協議在進行，但是我們為了尊重大院，也在大院機密會議的安排下，出示相關保密的資料，不過的確因為現在許多國家達成協議了，大家看到相關的談判條件，也會想要了解我方談判的情形，我們充分理解社會需要資訊、國會需要資訊，所以我們行政院在所有可能的範圍、能夠公開說明的，我們一定善盡說明的責任。"],["羅委員美玲：好的，謝謝副院長的說明。再來，剛剛也有委員在關心，就是前兩天有媒體以獨家報導的方式，報導裡面特別還提到說，是收到經濟部內部的資訊，所以裡面還提及了談判的過程，美國要求我方取消哪些商品品項的關稅，甚至有提到我方對美投資方面的承諾等等，雖然後來行政院經貿工作小組有澄清說，其實這是不實的報導，也沒有跟他們做過求證，裡面的項目跟談判的內容是有所出入的，可是媒體所提到的經濟部內部所提供的資訊，到目前為止事情已經過了兩天，我們行政單位到底有沒有去了解是不是就是從經濟部裡面流出來的？有了解過嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼完全、全面的資料，所以這個報導其實是不確實的。"],["羅委員美玲：確實，可是他特別有提到是經濟部內部流出來的，這個管道到底是誰、是哪個單位，有去了解過嗎？"],["何次長晉滄：我們也在了解中，但是……"],["羅委員美玲：還在了解當中？"],["何次長晉滄：在了解中。"],["羅委員美玲：所以到目前還不是很清楚到底怎麼回事？"],["何次長晉滄：但是很確定的是說，我們經濟部沒有辦法掌握那麼全面的資料。"],["鄭副院長麗君：向委員來補充說明，談判小組除了我跟楊政委之外，其實包含了跨部會，經濟部、農業部、衛福部、財政部等等，還有外交部、國安會等等許多的部會，談判的範疇包含關稅、非關稅貿易障礙、貿易便捷化、經濟安全、採購投資等等，所以其實是各部會參與各部會的部分。我們當天看到這個新聞，我們有了解行政院經貿辦、經濟部等各部會都沒有收到查證，所以我想這裡面有些數字並不是向部會查證之後來做報導，裡面也有一些資訊跟談判的情形有所出入，我們還是希望國人給予我們一些時間，讓我們加速談判，我們一旦跟美方達成協議，我們一定會先公布所有談判的內容跟細節。這個過程我們必須做這樣的期待是希望說，有一些過度的揭露是不是可能最終會影響我們談判雙方條件的磋商，像後續我們要談判相關的供應鏈合作、232的相關關稅，然後如果達成共識，希望對等關稅能夠再降，這些談判桌上可能的條件，現在如果過度的揭露，是不是也會成為我們未來談判的變數，我想這一點還要請大院跟社會能夠理解。我們一旦有共識跟達成協議的時候，我們一定會完整地向社會提供說明，也會將協議送大院來審議，也會一併提出衝擊影響評估。"],["羅委員美玲：我再請問副院長，如果到時查出來，真的是從經濟部裡面揭露出來的話，請問會有懲處嗎？因為到目前為止都說裡面的資訊其實是跟原本談判的內容是有出入的，萬一如果真的是從經濟部裡面洩露出來的，這會不會是造成人心不安的一個消息？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，任何公務員從事國家公務的行為，都有一定的準則跟規範──公務員服務法，有任何違法的，那我們就依法來處理。我認為跟媒體的溝通，我們要做得更確實，如果平常……"],["羅委員美玲：也希望媒體可以來求證。"],["卓院長榮泰：平常建立媒體有這種查證程序的話，很多的誤會就不會發生，所以我會要求各部會以後加強跟媒體各項聯絡跟服務，我們用最真實的面貌，來向國人論述我們所有的施政結果。"],["羅委員美玲：好，了解。剛剛副院長還有提到，未來我們關稅的協議文本將會送到立法院來做審議，那行政單位會不會擔心立法院到時會推翻原定的協議內容，有沒有可能？當然不是說不能夠對協議的內容提出意見，但萬一在野陣營為反對而反對，難道我們還要跟美國重新來談判嗎？有可能嗎？美國會理會臺灣嗎？想請教會不會擔心？"],["鄭副院長麗君：是，謝謝委員的問題。大院在2015年已經定有條約締結法，我想貴、我兩院就依締結法相關的法律規範來進行，條約締結法第三條對條約有所定義，裡面涉及國防、外交、財政、經濟重要事項都是稱為條約，尤其如果未來在關稅的部分有所變動的話，關稅也有涉及相關關稅的法律，這些我們都會依照法律來進行。條約締結法第八條也清楚的規範條約簽署之後要送國會來審議，當然第十條也有國會審議相關的條文，我想這些法律都可以供委員這邊來參考，不過這一次的談判，我要強調的是它跟過去傳統的經貿談判不一樣，過去傳統經貿談判可能歷時多年，但是這一次是在幾個月內……"],["羅委員美玲：非常短。"],["鄭副院長麗君：美國跟所有國家一起進行談判，談判必須有各個範疇：關稅、非關稅貿易障礙、貿易便捷化、經濟安全、投資等等各項議題，也有相關對等貿易協議的各項條文要逐條磋商，這些技術性磋商完了之後，我們跟貿易代表組磋商完，同時我們要跟商務部來進行未來供應鏈232的討論，並進行一個總結的會議，最後總結的會議也要看美方怎麼樣安排這個形式來進行，所以我想這個談判跟過去的經貿談判的形式是有所不同的，屆時我們再請國會來予以整體的考量，但是我們也會善盡行政院向國會報告以及提供衝擊影響評估，並把所有的資訊送交國會來審議的責任。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！好，謝謝，也是要等到最終可能9月底、10月以後的事情了嗎？一切等談判結束才能夠……"],["鄭副院長麗君：我剛剛所提的這個時程是參考美國財政部長Mr.Bessent的一個說法，但是以我方的立場，當然我們希望能夠越快越好，不過的確談判有時候取決於雙方，例如最後總結性會議的安排，我們也必須要跟美方來進行就形式的討論，所以我想我們就是全力朝這個目標來推進。"],["羅委員美玲：OK！好，最後一個問題，我想請教的就是我們為了因應美國對等關稅帶來的產業衝擊，經濟部有提了四大方向，就是包含用AI來降成本，去美國設產業園區，鼓勵業者深耕利基市場還有協助升級轉型等等。本席想請教，去美國設產業園區這個部分其實也就是我們談判的一個很重要的項目跟籌碼之一，對不對？因為我們既然已經提出來了……"],["鄭副院長麗君：外界都關心為什麼臺美還沒達成協議，其實就是我們一再的說明，因為我們的逆差結構有九成來自半導體、ICT，這個在232調查項目中，將對等關稅跟232併談的，像日、韓、歐盟，美方也清楚的跟我們表達，他們涉及的232項目相對比我們單純，他們也許是汽車、也許是鋼品等等，我方是基於聚焦在半導體跟ICT，這個部分的232關稅在美方的政策屬於未定，他們的稅率政策還在變動中，所以雙方必須就供應鏈合作跟232後續我們也希望爭取優惠，這一併討論。所以我們的確也正在跟我們的高科技業者座談，來了解大家的想法，整合大家的共識，我們希望能夠透過後續的談判，雙方臺美供應鏈能夠有一個好的合作，然後爭取232的優惠，一旦在這部分達成共識，我們同時能夠進入總結會議，爭取再降對等關稅並且不疊加，所以這裡面核心的議題的確也是我們的供應鏈在國際，尤其在美國擴大布局。","我想臺美的高科技產業過去長期是互補的，美國在創新研發非常的強，臺灣是我們的製造非常的強，所以如果我們的製造在美國能夠來結合他們當地的技術、研發能力、市場跟人才，我想也是我們一個有利的國際布局，所以未來的談判應該要朝向雙方互補、互利、合作的方式，來深入討論供應鏈合作的布局。我方高科技產業的發展，一個很重要的經驗也是來自於我們產業園區、科學園區、政府跟產業界協力合作的模式。所以這一次，除了企業如果赴美投資，政府未來也能夠協助我們落地的企業打造一個更好的投資環境、公平的環境，我們也透過這樣產業聚落的方式，為他們爭取更好的在美國給予的協助跟條件，讓他們能夠得到更好的基礎建設，然後能夠有更好的一個投資優惠的環境，我想對我們產業的國際布局也是有利的，所以這個都在我們後續的談判範疇當中。"],["羅委員美玲：所以去美國設產業園區就是我們的籌碼之一，當然剛剛副院長講得非常清楚，可能還是以高科技產業到那裡去投資做為主軸，是這樣子的意思嗎？"],["鄭副院長麗君：其實232項目除了半導體、ICT之外，我們當然也希望能夠爭取像鋼等其他項目一併討論。"],["羅委員美玲：OK，真的是非常辛苦，我希望大家在談判的透過當中能夠順利，也希望能達到預期想要的結果，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝羅委員，謝謝卓院長及副院長。","下一位請鍾佳濱委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":158,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-26","speakers":["江啟臣","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","許宇甄","林倩綺","陳昭姿","王定宇","黃珊珊","羅美玲","鍾佳濱","羅智強","陳冠廷","高金素梅","李坤城","黃健豪","陳亭妃","賴士葆","林岱樺","徐巧芯","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","牛煦庭"],"page_start":45,"meetingDate":["2025-08-25"],"gazette_id":"1147401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147401_00003","1147401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第26次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「臺美關稅談判之進程、方針、原則及臺灣產業可能遭受之衝擊影響評估」專案\n報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147401_00003"}}}