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\"企\", \"start\": 350.361, \"end\": 350.701, \"score\": 0.884}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 350.701, \"end\": 351.161, \"score\": 0.959}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"升\", \"start\": 351.161, \"end\": 351.362, \"score\": 0.908}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"轉\"}, {\"word\": \"型\", \"start\": 351.362, \"end\": 351.382, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 352.472, \"end\": 380.078, \"text\": \"那這個每家企業最高五百萬產業聯盟一起申請四千萬裡面也包含的相關的這個太舊換新的設備擴大內需等我想這些經濟部其實我們在四月二號對等關稅公布的時候院長已經有責成我們提出一個完整的支持方案那後續也從八百八十億增加到九百三十億那現在任性條例裡面也希望未來再匡列兩百億來增加來強化產業的這個支持\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 352.472, \"end\": 352.832, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"每\", \"start\": 352.832, \"end\": 352.992, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 352.992, \"end\": 353.252, \"score\": 0.941}, {\"word\": \"企\", \"start\": 353.252, \"end\": 353.772, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"業\"}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 353.772, \"end\": 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--> 00:01:17,859\n但是我還是必須要確認一下我們目前的方案是沒有定案的至少在我剛才提到有很多各項的這些農產品但是我最重視的是像包含稻米還有雞跟豬目前都還沒有定案對吧目前雙方都提出一些方案但是\n\n4\n00:01:18,769 --> 00:01:32,705\n都還沒有達成協議所以這些方案的內容現在都沒有一樣是說已經到最後那樣達成協議的最後的這個所謂總結會議的這個答案出來所以也沒有到這個所謂的聯合聲明也沒有到總結會議的雙方的達成協議\n\n5\n00:01:34,287 --> 00:02:01,744\n但都在進行當中那剛才副院長也有提到說這個糧食安全國民健康是不能妥協的那特別是糧食安全這件事情特別還有我們中南部雲嘉南地區稻米是我們的主要的產值之一所以我們很希望這一個是很重要重中之重日本的這個經驗也值得我們學習就是這一次他們在稻米上面的相對的讓步造成他們的一些農民的民怨這點我們一定務必\n\n6\n00:02:02,825 --> 00:02:28,562\n要放在我們的考量範圍那我想現在的台美的貿易這個狀況其實是面臨雙重困局多重挑戰首先就是農業你要犧牲農業來去成就中小企業嗎還是你要把中小企業的稅率把它降低就是這些關稅降低那去保護我們農業還是要用台積電來大量的投資換取兩個產業之間能夠更有競爭力但不管怎麼樣這些都是挑戰\n\n7\n00:02:29,423 --> 00:02:57,103\n可是對我們來說特別是總統有提到均衡台灣我們要重視的不是強勢產業而已比如說台積電的表現大家都知道它有它的這個重要的核心技術我們希望它留在台灣但是我們更不能夠忘記能夠承載著整個國家的糧食安全就在我們中南部就是我們的稻米就是包含我們的雞豬跟稻米這些重要的我們的食物的安全糧食的安全所以我可以理解我們現在在談判的難處我們現在在談判中\n\n8\n00:02:57,623 --> 00:03:24,536\n但是我們必須要對所有的結果首先預先做好準備所以我們不可以等到說到時候協議簽署之後然後我們再倉促的先用發販補助金這種方式用這種最草率的方式我們現在就要把所有的預案先想好到時候才能夠選擇來去對農業最大的保障那我想請教一下現在在價格競爭力的這個嚴重銷售之下我們要怎麼樣系統性的來協助我們的中小企業\n\n9\n00:03:25,416 --> 00:03:34,130\n包含你剛之前我看跟其他委員沒有聽到的是擴大信保基金提供融資跟利息補貼等等金融工具之外還有什麼樣的方向\n\n10\n00:03:35,609 --> 00:04:02,801\n我們在農業跟工業各有我們先從中小企業這個特別是跟工具機產業相關的不知道部長有什麼想法中小企業除了我們原來有的中小企業的多元振興方案之外我們對於工業部門我們也會協助它金融的支持還有它一些財政相關稅務的成本的降低也協助它升級轉型等等這個都是在特別條例當中都有名列的\n\n11\n00:04:03,791 --> 00:04:27,851\n特別跟院長還有其他相關的官員來提醒就是我們有接到一些其實不只是中部甚至包含江南地區有一些工廠他們都有提到說把工具機扣件等關鍵產業的標準與法規的互相認證來提高讓我們這些檢驗合格的產品能夠更快速的進入美國市場不要去增加它重複檢驗的時間跟費用不少這部分有沒有什麼樣的回應\n\n12\n00:04:30,037 --> 00:04:49,472\n這個部分我想我們會照委員反映的民情這個部分我們會來處理好這個盡量是快速因為如果我們在關稅在金額上面如果遇到挑戰的話至少我們在進入市場的速度上面我們至少要能夠快速的去反映再來就是我們必須要把價格競爭轉到品質的競爭\n\n13\n00:04:54,716 --> 00:05:17,283\n現在有沒有什麼具體計畫像是技術輔導團直接進駐產業聚落提供客製化的優化服務而不是只是提供貸款這方面有沒有什麼樣的相關的推動跟文報告其實現在我們跟法人一起來輔導我們這些工具機產業還有一些相關受衝擊的產業我們先用AI市產線的部分讓他們能夠整個產線它能夠升級轉型\n\n14\n00:05:24,125 --> 00:05:51,382\n那另外就是工具機他也可以開發一些相關AI相關的這個產品的這個升級這個部分我想這個都是我們希望把整個產業能夠讓他整個這個產品跟設備的這些附加價值率能夠提升的一個方法做一點補充有關中小企業多元有這個發展相關的貸款還有外銷貸款以外還有一個研發補助的部分就是協助企業的這個升級轉型\n\n15\n00:05:52,472 --> 00:06:20,078\n那這個每家企業最高五百萬產業聯盟一起申請四千萬裡面也包含的相關的這個太舊換新的設備擴大內需等我想這些經濟部其實我們在四月二號對等關稅公布的時候院長已經有責成我們提出一個完整的支持方案那後續也從八百八十億增加到九百三十億那現在任性條例裡面也希望未來再匡列兩百億來增加來強化產業的這個支持\n\n16\n00:06:21,443 --> 00:06:34,774\n尤其委員關心的衝擊比較大跟競爭國相對關稅相對有劣勢的像工具機機械等等或者是農業的一些項目我想各部會再給予個別個案的支持\n\n17\n00:06:35,694 --> 00:07:03,354\n好謝謝副院長再來就是農業的部分剛才有提到的美國規模化低成本的農產品它直接長驅植入的部分想請教一下部長美國的地價米如果長驅植入的話它的國內的價格會受到影響現在的現行的公糧收購保價收購的制度我們是希望能夠持續下去而且要因應物價來做調整作為穩定市場的\n\n18\n00:07:04,332 --> 00:07:21,851\n最後一道防線除了被動收購之外行政院或農業部有沒有針對稻米產業升級的計畫例如全力支持我們的特色米種來進行品牌化的行銷還是效法日本月光米的模式將台灣米我們從主食\n\n19\n00:07:22,572 --> 00:07:43,059\n把它提升為精品這部分部長會給我們一些回應我跟委員說明就是有關於稻作的部分我們從今年年初推的稻作糧食安全升級方案現在的產地價都非常好業農民也非常開心所以稻米是一個糧食安全非常重要的產物所以也是我們必須要去守護的\n\n20\n00:07:43,699 --> 00:08:02,711\n雖然說美國在那邊有他的期待但是我們有我們要守護的所以這就必須要持續的溝通那現在談判還沒有結束我們一定會去守護我們最重要的糧食安全的一個產物我們會達到這樣的希望達到這樣的一個目標第二個部分就是您剛才講的很多美國產品進來以後會不會對國內的物價有影響\n\n21\n00:08:05,453 --> 00:08:21,532\n我要跟您報告就是不是所有的零關稅都非常可怕有一些產品是我們原物料的像黃小玉的部分如果他現在都零關稅零關稅進來以後對於我們飼料成本會降低對於我們產業反而是好的\n\n22\n00:08:21,952 --> 00:08:44,859\n那有一些產品本身它本身就是跟我們是我們本身生產非常少的那這一類的產品它其實是可以滿足我們的消費者的需求所以我們也做了非常多的這樣的分析那的確有一些產品是可能會到衝擊的那這些衝擊的部分我們也完成了衝擊分析也完成了一些後面的因應方案\n\n23\n00:08:46,092 --> 00:09:07,939\n所以部長我剛才提到就是講稻米那對於剛才你說到用的飼料用對畜牧產業的這些可能的爭議的地方我也希望未來能夠來清楚的跟民眾講想補充三點第一點就是農業敏感項目這個的確涉及糧食安全剛剛陳部長有說美方當然會期待市場開放不過有關最重要的糧食安全也是我方考量的一個\n\n24\n00:09:08,599 --> 00:09:33,199\n原則但是我們的確沒有辦法就每一項談因為如果我們談了是不是屆時影響最終談判的這個結果我們想要維護一個最好的一個結果這第一點那第二點如果是對我們有互補性的項目我想這個也許就是可以在這個考量的範圍那或者是我國是依賴進口的部分但進口部分在國家之間的替代這個也是也許是一種考量所以我們會綜合考量\n\n25\n00:09:33,935 --> 00:10:01,946\n整個我們的糧食安全跟產業利益來跟美方做相關的談判剛才副院長跟部長都有提到有一些互補性的比方說它能夠有效的把我們畜牧產業反而是有利的因為它可以壓低我們的進口的價格的那當然就是成為我們互相互利談判的一個基礎但是我剛才有提到一方面我提到精品把這個我們的稻米精品化但是我為什麼又提到工糧收購為什麼要提到要把價格的這個保證原因是因為同樣的農夫\n\n26\n00:10:03,266 --> 00:10:29,807\n同樣在做稻米的這些種植有一部分是最脆弱的我們比較老農對他們來講要精品化等等的話對他們來說的成本太大對我們來講我們與其要每一個產業走一百步我們希望每一個人都可以有機會來成長所以我為什麼還在持續的講說包含工糧收購保價收購還需要因應物價來去調整我們要保護的就是這些老農這些我們可能在最脆弱的一環\n\n27\n00:10:30,267 --> 00:10:55,001\n所以它彼此之間是不矛盾的甚至是有互補的再來就是我們的畜牧產業剛才有提到包含特別是白肉雞這跟我們日常的生活飲食是息息相關未來美國會大量極度便宜的如果是進口的雞腿雞翅等等都切塊這些我們國內產業可能很難競爭我想請教一下部長你有什麼樣的方案\n\n28\n00:10:56,277 --> 00:11:10,883\n我跟委員報告白肉機的部分現在進口的白肉機的部分占差不多全台灣使用的35%那這35%其實幾乎百分之百都是由美國進來的所以美國已經有在進白肉機\n\n29\n00:11:12,170 --> 00:11:40,977\n另外一个就是白肉鸡进来的都是特殊部位的部分它跟国产鸡肉的消费的市场是不一样的所以后续我们在处理这一块的时候我们都是在不管是现在或未来我们一直希望说维护我们国内的产业它的市场的一个区隔性所以我们才能够去面对未来的任何的一个挑战所以后续的这些品牌后续的国内鸡肉的部分的一个市场的区隔我们会加强来努力\n\n30\n00:11:41,616 --> 00:12:07,772\n好那再來就是酪農的部分那其實之前有一陣子衛福部也在討論這件事情這個應該不會在這一次的關稅談判中裡面有包括在裡面吧所有的品項其實美國都有期待但是我們也有我們的要守護的部分部長我就宣誓性講一下因為這個事情兩三個月前我們好不容易有說服我們的這些酪農朋友請把他們的權益一定要放在\n\n31\n00:12:09,649 --> 00:12:30,010\n這個討論的裡面我強調這次我花很多的篇幅在強調農業的原因是因為我們都知道台積電是台灣的火車頭但是糧食安全國民的健康守護這些的就是農業所以我請農業部部長跟副院長能夠把這個事情不要把它納入最不重要的事情要把它納入最重要的事情的考量之一\n\n32\n00:12:30,612 --> 00:12:44,714\n接下來要針對政府對232條款的因應策略這個部分我先請教院長院長現在我們的輿論是主要是在焦點是20%的關稅有沒有機會爭取到調降或者是不疊加\n\n33\n00:12:45,655 --> 00:13:08,093\n但是這個前提可能是透過傳統的談判或者是擴大採購等等來去做討論可是這個232的情況比較複雜因為它是有國家安全的戰略的行動在考量在裡面它不是單純的降本求利而已它是在討論國家安全哪一項目它認為會影響到他們的國家安全所以如果編長我們也認同矽頓的概念跟單純的經濟關稅有差別的話\n\n34\n00:13:10,734 --> 00:13:20,979\n除了談判辦公室之外我們是要納入處理國家安全地緣政治層級的部會來去協助目前是有哪個單位在協助做這個部分的說服嗎\n\n35\n00:13:22,867 --> 00:13:42,104\n是談判的過程參與談判的嗎我們除了經濟部勞動部國家安全相關的有嗎我們有把國安系統的建議都把它拉進來有經濟部國發會財政部國安會這些都在我們談判小組我們希望這個在\n\n36\n00:13:44,006 --> 00:14:00,608\n232的部分他的談判他除了談判辦公室之外他必須是到國家安全層級的所以不是只是派員可能是要派相當有影響力的相當影響力的人物來去參與我們是整個政府整體一起決策一起參與\n\n37\n00:14:02,306 --> 00:14:22,339\n那再來就是也是跟國家安全相關因為月初這個華盛頓郵報或者是美方的媒體都有提到說這次的關稅談判是不是有涉及軍購或者是軍事安全等議題應該是有嗎沒有談判沒有跟軍購相關沒有跟安全領域相關目前都沒有\n\n38\n00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:38,245\n跟委員報告因為我方在談判過程也向美方表達說我國賴清德總統在20月的時候就已經正式公開對外來宣示我國未來國防預算要達到GDP3%\n\n39\n00:14:40,187 --> 00:15:02,842\n所以這是我方總統已經正式對外公開承諾所以雙方就這個部分沒有再進一步多做討論院長其實我是建議把安全的議題納入關稅當中因為剛才提到農業很多敏感的產業但是在安全的產業上面其實我們是需要更多更好的技術更多的裝備來去因應中國的威脅那這個部分同時是我們需要購買的\n\n40\n00:15:04,263 --> 00:15:20,036\n如果我們是把農業納進去那犧牲部分的農業它是有雙重衝擊的但是在安全領域上面特別是在商購上面當我們購買這些裝備器具技術人員的訓練等等它其實是有增加我國籌碼的幫助的\n\n41\n00:15:21,257 --> 00:15:37,046\n那特別是商購的部分我看之前國防部長有提到商購是不納入軍購裡面的計算的如果我們可以自己創造籌碼來增加讓我們農業有更多的機會的話我希望是可以做的軍購的部分當然就尊重國防部這邊的規劃我想國防部國安會會有規劃謝謝陳委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n17008\t24135\t好 我們請院長我們請卓院長備詢跟部長 農業部部長農業部部長備詢陳國元好院長好 部長好\n36172\t57305\t院長我想其實剛才已經有多次確認過了不只在野黨跟執政黨的委員都有確認過最近有媒體他報導說可能會犧牲農業全面開放來去換取這個關稅的調整不過總統府跟行政機關都已經予以證實澄清沒有這件事情\n58510\t77859\t但是我還是必須要確認一下我們目前的方案是沒有定案的至少在我剛才提到有很多各項的這些農產品但是我最重視的是像包含稻米還有雞跟豬目前都還沒有定案對吧目前雙方都提出一些方案但是\n78769\t92705\t都還沒有達成協議所以這些方案的內容現在都沒有一樣是說已經到最後那樣達成協議的最後的這個所謂總結會議的這個答案出來所以也沒有到這個所謂的聯合聲明也沒有到總結會議的雙方的達成協議\n94287\t121744\t但都在進行當中那剛才副院長也有提到說這個糧食安全國民健康是不能妥協的那特別是糧食安全這件事情特別還有我們中南部雲嘉南地區稻米是我們的主要的產值之一所以我們很希望這一個是很重要重中之重日本的這個經驗也值得我們學習就是這一次他們在稻米上面的相對的讓步造成他們的一些農民的民怨這點我們一定務必\n122825\t148562\t要放在我們的考量範圍那我想現在的台美的貿易這個狀況其實是面臨雙重困局 多重挑戰首先就是農業你要犧牲農業來去成就中小企業嗎還是你要把中小企業的稅率把它降低就是這些關稅降低那去保護我們農業還是要用台積電來大量的投資換取兩個產業之間能夠更有競爭力但不管怎麼樣這些都是挑戰\n149423\t177103\t可是對我們來說特別是總統有提到均衡台灣我們要重視的不是強勢產業而已比如說台積電的表現大家都知道它有它的這個重要的核心技術我們希望它留在台灣但是我們更不能夠忘記能夠承載著整個國家的糧食安全就在我們中南部就是我們的稻米就是包含我們的雞豬跟稻米這些重要的我們的食物的安全 糧食的安全所以我可以理解我們現在在談判的難處我們現在在談判中\n177623\t204536\t但是我們必須要對所有的結果首先預先做好準備所以我們不可以等到說到時候協議簽署之後然後我們再倉促的先用發販補助金這種方式用這種最草率的方式我們現在就要把所有的預案先想好到時候才能夠選擇來去對農業最大的保障那我想請教一下現在在價格競爭力的這個嚴重銷售之下我們要怎麼樣系統性的來協助我們的中小企業\n205416\t214130\t包含你剛之前我看跟其他委員沒有聽到的是擴大信保基金提供融資跟利息補貼等等金融工具之外還有什麼樣的方向\n215609\t242801\t我們在農業跟工業各有我們先從中小企業這個特別是跟工具機產業相關的不知道部長有什麼想法中小企業除了我們原來有的中小企業的多元振興方案之外我們對於工業部門我們也會協助它金融的支持還有它一些財政相關稅務的成本的降低也協助它升級轉型等等這個都是在特別條例當中都有名列的\n243791\t267851\t特別跟院長還有其他相關的官員來提醒就是我們有接到一些其實不只是中部甚至包含江南地區有一些工廠他們都有提到說把工具機扣件等關鍵產業的標準與法規的互相認證來提高讓我們這些檢驗合格的產品能夠更快速的進入美國市場不要去增加它重複檢驗的時間跟費用不少這部分有沒有什麼樣的回應\n270037\t289472\t這個部分我想我們會照委員反映的民情這個部分我們會來處理好 這個盡量是快速因為如果我們在關稅在金額上面如果遇到挑戰的話至少我們在進入市場的速度上面我們至少要能夠快速的去反映再來就是我們必須要把價格競爭轉到品質的競爭\n294716\t317283\t現在有沒有什麼具體計畫像是技術輔導團直接進駐產業聚落提供客製化的優化服務而不是只是提供貸款這方面有沒有什麼樣的相關的推動跟文報告其實現在我們跟法人一起來輔導我們這些工具機產業還有一些相關受衝擊的產業我們先用AI市產線的部分讓他們能夠整個產線它能夠升級轉型\n324125\t351382\t那另外就是工具機他也可以開發一些相關AI相關的這個產品的這個升級這個部分我想這個都是我們希望把整個產業能夠讓他整個這個產品跟設備的這些附加價值率能夠提升的一個方法做一點補充有關中小企業多元有這個發展相關的貸款還有外銷貸款以外還有一個研發補助的部分就是協助企業的這個升級轉型\n352472\t380078\t那這個每家企業最高五百萬產業聯盟一起申請四千萬裡面也包含的相關的這個太舊換新的設備擴大內需等我想這些經濟部其實我們在四月二號對等關稅公布的時候院長已經有責成我們提出一個完整的支持方案那後續也從八百八十億增加到九百三十億那現在任性條例裡面也希望未來再匡列兩百億來增加來強化產業的這個支持\n381443\t394774\t尤其委員關心的衝擊比較大跟競爭國相對 關稅相對有劣勢的像工具機 機械等等或者是農業的一些項目我想各部會再給予個別個案的支持\n395694\t423354\t好 謝謝副院長再來就是農業的部分剛才有提到的美國規模化低成本的農產品它直接長驅植入的部分想請教一下部長美國的地價米如果長驅植入的話它的國內的價格會受到影響現在的現行的公糧收購保價收購的制度我們是希望能夠持續下去而且要因應物價來做調整作為穩定市場的\n424332\t441851\t最後一道防線除了被動收購之外行政院或農業部有沒有針對稻米產業升級的計畫例如全力支持我們的特色米種來進行品牌化的行銷還是效法日本月光米的模式將台灣米我們從主食\n442572\t463059\t把它提升為精品這部分部長會給我們一些回應我跟委員說明就是有關於稻作的部分我們從今年年初推的稻作糧食安全升級方案現在的產地價都非常好業農民也非常開心所以稻米是一個糧食安全非常重要的產物所以也是我們必須要去守護的\n463699\t482711\t雖然說美國在那邊有他的期待但是我們有我們要守護的所以這就必須要持續的溝通那現在談判還沒有結束我們一定會去守護我們最重要的糧食安全的一個產物我們會達到這樣的希望達到這樣的一個目標第二個部分就是您剛才講的很多美國產品進來以後會不會對國內的物價有影響\n485453\t501532\t我要跟您報告就是不是所有的零關稅都非常可怕有一些產品是我們原物料的像黃小玉的部分如果他現在都零關稅零關稅進來以後對於我們飼料成本會降低對於我們產業反而是好的\n501952\t524859\t那有一些產品本身它本身就是跟我們是我們本身生產非常少的那這一類的產品它其實是可以滿足我們的消費者的需求所以我們也做了非常多的這樣的分析那的確有一些產品是可能會到衝擊的那這些衝擊的部分我們也完成了衝擊分析也完成了一些後面的因應方案\n526092\t547939\t所以部長我剛才提到就是講稻米那對於剛才你說到用的飼料用對畜牧產業的這些可能的爭議的地方我也希望未來能夠來清楚的跟民眾講想補充三點第一點就是農業敏感項目這個的確涉及糧食安全剛剛陳部長有說美方當然會期待市場開放不過有關最重要的糧食安全也是我方考量的一個\n548599\t573199\t原則但是我們的確沒有辦法就每一項談因為如果我們談了是不是屆時影響最終談判的這個結果我們想要維護一個最好的一個結果這第一點那第二點如果是對我們有互補性的項目我想這個也許就是可以在這個考量的範圍那或者是我國是依賴進口的部分但進口部分在國家之間的替代這個也是也許是一種考量所以我們會綜合考量\n573935\t601946\t整個我們的糧食安全跟產業利益來跟美方做相關的談判剛才副院長跟部長都有提到有一些互補性的比方說它能夠有效的把我們畜牧產業反而是有利的因為它可以壓低我們的進口的價格的那當然就是成為我們互相互利談判的一個基礎但是我剛才有提到一方面我提到精品把這個我們的稻米精品化但是我為什麼又提到工糧收購為什麼要提到要把價格的這個保證原因是因為同樣的農夫\n603266\t629807\t同樣在做稻米的這些種植有一部分是最脆弱的我們比較老農對他們來講要精品化等等的話對他們來說的成本太大對我們來講我們與其要每一個產業走一百步我們希望每一個人都可以有機會來成長所以我為什麼還在持續的講說包含工糧收購 保價收購還需要因應物價來去調整我們要保護的就是這些老農這些我們可能在最脆弱的一環\n630267\t655001\t所以它彼此之間是不矛盾的甚至是有互補的再來就是我們的畜牧產業剛才有提到包含特別是白肉雞這跟我們日常的生活飲食是息息相關未來美國會大量極度便宜的如果是進口的雞腿雞翅等等都切塊這些我們國內產業可能很難競爭我想請教一下部長你有什麼樣的方案\n656277\t670883\t我跟委員報告白肉機的部分現在進口的白肉機的部分占差不多全台灣使用的35%那這35%其實幾乎百分之百都是由美國進來的所以美國已經有在進白肉機\n672170\t700977\t另外一个就是白肉鸡进来的都是特殊部位的部分它跟国产鸡肉的消费的市场是不一样的所以后续我们在处理这一块的时候我们都是在不管是现在或未来我们一直希望说维护我们国内的产业它的市场的一个区隔性所以我们才能够去面对未来的任何的一个挑战所以后续的这些品牌后续的国内鸡肉的部分的一个市场的区隔我们会加强来努力\n701616\t727772\t好那再來就是酪農的部分那其實之前有一陣子衛福部也在討論這件事情這個應該不會在這一次的關稅談判中裡面有包括在裡面吧所有的品項其實美國都有期待但是我們也有我們的要守護的部分部長我就宣誓性講一下因為這個事情兩三個月前我們好不容易有說服我們的這些酪農朋友請把他們的權益一定要放在\n729649\t750010\t這個討論的裡面我強調這次我花很多的篇幅在強調農業的原因是因為我們都知道台積電是台灣的火車頭但是糧食安全國民的健康守護這些的就是農業所以我請農業部部長跟副院長能夠把這個事情不要把它納入最不重要的事情要把它納入最重要的事情的考量之一\n750612\t764714\t接下來要針對政府對232條款的因應策略這個部分我先請教院長院長現在我們的輿論是主要是在焦點是20%的關稅有沒有機會爭取到調降或者是不疊加\n765655\t788093\t但是這個前提可能是透過傳統的談判或者是擴大採購等等來去做討論可是這個232的情況比較複雜因為它是有國家安全的戰略的行動在考量在裡面它不是單純的降本求利而已它是在討論國家安全哪一項目它認為會影響到他們的國家安全所以如果編長我們也認同矽頓的概念跟單純的經濟關稅有差別的話\n790734\t800979\t除了談判辦公室之外我們是要納入處理國家安全地緣政治層級的部會來去協助目前是有哪個單位在協助做這個部分的說服嗎\n802867\t822104\t是談判的過程 參與談判的嗎我們除了經濟部 勞動部國家安全相關的有嗎我們有把國安系統的建議都把它拉進來有經濟部 國發會 財政部國安會這些都在我們談判小組我們希望這個在\n824006\t840608\t232的部分他的談判他除了談判辦公室之外他必須是到國家安全層級的所以不是只是派員可能是要派相當有影響力的相當影響力的人物來去參與我們是整個政府整體一起決策一起參與\n842306\t862339\t那再來就是也是跟國家安全相關因為月初這個華盛頓郵報或者是美方的媒體都有提到說這次的關稅談判是不是有涉及軍購或者是軍事安全等議題應該是有嗎沒有 談判沒有跟軍購相關沒有跟安全領域相關 目前都沒有\n863870\t878245\t跟委員報告因為我方在談判過程也向美方表達說我國賴清德總統在20月的時候就已經正式公開對外來宣示我國未來國防預算要達到GDP3%\n880187\t902842\t所以這是我方總統已經正式對外公開承諾所以雙方就這個部分沒有再進一步多做討論院長其實我是建議把安全的議題納入關稅當中因為剛才提到農業很多敏感的產業但是在安全的產業上面其實我們是需要更多更好的技術更多的裝備來去因應中國的威脅那這個部分同時是我們需要購買的\n904263\t920036\t如果我們是把農業納進去那犧牲部分的農業它是有雙重衝擊的但是在安全領域上面特別是在商購上面當我們購買這些裝備 器具 技術人員的訓練等等它其實是有增加我國籌碼的幫助的\n921257\t937046\t那特別是商購的部分我看之前國防部長有提到商購是不納入軍購裡面的計算的如果我們可以自己創造籌碼來增加讓我們農業有更多的機會的話我希望是可以做的軍購的部分當然就尊重國防部這邊的規劃我想國防部國安會會有規劃謝謝陳委員\n","txt":"好 我們請院長我們請卓院長備詢跟部長 農業部部長農業部部長備詢陳國元好院長好 部長好\n院長我想其實剛才已經有多次確認過了不只在野黨跟執政黨的委員都有確認過最近有媒體他報導說可能會犧牲農業全面開放來去換取這個關稅的調整不過總統府跟行政機關都已經予以證實澄清沒有這件事情\n但是我還是必須要確認一下我們目前的方案是沒有定案的至少在我剛才提到有很多各項的這些農產品但是我最重視的是像包含稻米還有雞跟豬目前都還沒有定案對吧目前雙方都提出一些方案但是\n都還沒有達成協議所以這些方案的內容現在都沒有一樣是說已經到最後那樣達成協議的最後的這個所謂總結會議的這個答案出來所以也沒有到這個所謂的聯合聲明也沒有到總結會議的雙方的達成協議\n但都在進行當中那剛才副院長也有提到說這個糧食安全國民健康是不能妥協的那特別是糧食安全這件事情特別還有我們中南部雲嘉南地區稻米是我們的主要的產值之一所以我們很希望這一個是很重要重中之重日本的這個經驗也值得我們學習就是這一次他們在稻米上面的相對的讓步造成他們的一些農民的民怨這點我們一定務必\n要放在我們的考量範圍那我想現在的台美的貿易這個狀況其實是面臨雙重困局 多重挑戰首先就是農業你要犧牲農業來去成就中小企業嗎還是你要把中小企業的稅率把它降低就是這些關稅降低那去保護我們農業還是要用台積電來大量的投資換取兩個產業之間能夠更有競爭力但不管怎麼樣這些都是挑戰\n可是對我們來說特別是總統有提到均衡台灣我們要重視的不是強勢產業而已比如說台積電的表現大家都知道它有它的這個重要的核心技術我們希望它留在台灣但是我們更不能夠忘記能夠承載著整個國家的糧食安全就在我們中南部就是我們的稻米就是包含我們的雞豬跟稻米這些重要的我們的食物的安全 糧食的安全所以我可以理解我們現在在談判的難處我們現在在談判中\n但是我們必須要對所有的結果首先預先做好準備所以我們不可以等到說到時候協議簽署之後然後我們再倉促的先用發販補助金這種方式用這種最草率的方式我們現在就要把所有的預案先想好到時候才能夠選擇來去對農業最大的保障那我想請教一下現在在價格競爭力的這個嚴重銷售之下我們要怎麼樣系統性的來協助我們的中小企業\n包含你剛之前我看跟其他委員沒有聽到的是擴大信保基金提供融資跟利息補貼等等金融工具之外還有什麼樣的方向\n我們在農業跟工業各有我們先從中小企業這個特別是跟工具機產業相關的不知道部長有什麼想法中小企業除了我們原來有的中小企業的多元振興方案之外我們對於工業部門我們也會協助它金融的支持還有它一些財政相關稅務的成本的降低也協助它升級轉型等等這個都是在特別條例當中都有名列的\n特別跟院長還有其他相關的官員來提醒就是我們有接到一些其實不只是中部甚至包含江南地區有一些工廠他們都有提到說把工具機扣件等關鍵產業的標準與法規的互相認證來提高讓我們這些檢驗合格的產品能夠更快速的進入美國市場不要去增加它重複檢驗的時間跟費用不少這部分有沒有什麼樣的回應\n這個部分我想我們會照委員反映的民情這個部分我們會來處理好 這個盡量是快速因為如果我們在關稅在金額上面如果遇到挑戰的話至少我們在進入市場的速度上面我們至少要能夠快速的去反映再來就是我們必須要把價格競爭轉到品質的競爭\n現在有沒有什麼具體計畫像是技術輔導團直接進駐產業聚落提供客製化的優化服務而不是只是提供貸款這方面有沒有什麼樣的相關的推動跟文報告其實現在我們跟法人一起來輔導我們這些工具機產業還有一些相關受衝擊的產業我們先用AI市產線的部分讓他們能夠整個產線它能夠升級轉型\n那另外就是工具機他也可以開發一些相關AI相關的這個產品的這個升級這個部分我想這個都是我們希望把整個產業能夠讓他整個這個產品跟設備的這些附加價值率能夠提升的一個方法做一點補充有關中小企業多元有這個發展相關的貸款還有外銷貸款以外還有一個研發補助的部分就是協助企業的這個升級轉型\n那這個每家企業最高五百萬產業聯盟一起申請四千萬裡面也包含的相關的這個太舊換新的設備擴大內需等我想這些經濟部其實我們在四月二號對等關稅公布的時候院長已經有責成我們提出一個完整的支持方案那後續也從八百八十億增加到九百三十億那現在任性條例裡面也希望未來再匡列兩百億來增加來強化產業的這個支持\n尤其委員關心的衝擊比較大跟競爭國相對 關稅相對有劣勢的像工具機 機械等等或者是農業的一些項目我想各部會再給予個別個案的支持\n好 謝謝副院長再來就是農業的部分剛才有提到的美國規模化低成本的農產品它直接長驅植入的部分想請教一下部長美國的地價米如果長驅植入的話它的國內的價格會受到影響現在的現行的公糧收購保價收購的制度我們是希望能夠持續下去而且要因應物價來做調整作為穩定市場的\n最後一道防線除了被動收購之外行政院或農業部有沒有針對稻米產業升級的計畫例如全力支持我們的特色米種來進行品牌化的行銷還是效法日本月光米的模式將台灣米我們從主食\n把它提升為精品這部分部長會給我們一些回應我跟委員說明就是有關於稻作的部分我們從今年年初推的稻作糧食安全升級方案現在的產地價都非常好業農民也非常開心所以稻米是一個糧食安全非常重要的產物所以也是我們必須要去守護的\n雖然說美國在那邊有他的期待但是我們有我們要守護的所以這就必須要持續的溝通那現在談判還沒有結束我們一定會去守護我們最重要的糧食安全的一個產物我們會達到這樣的希望達到這樣的一個目標第二個部分就是您剛才講的很多美國產品進來以後會不會對國內的物價有影響\n我要跟您報告就是不是所有的零關稅都非常可怕有一些產品是我們原物料的像黃小玉的部分如果他現在都零關稅零關稅進來以後對於我們飼料成本會降低對於我們產業反而是好的\n那有一些產品本身它本身就是跟我們是我們本身生產非常少的那這一類的產品它其實是可以滿足我們的消費者的需求所以我們也做了非常多的這樣的分析那的確有一些產品是可能會到衝擊的那這些衝擊的部分我們也完成了衝擊分析也完成了一些後面的因應方案\n所以部長我剛才提到就是講稻米那對於剛才你說到用的飼料用對畜牧產業的這些可能的爭議的地方我也希望未來能夠來清楚的跟民眾講想補充三點第一點就是農業敏感項目這個的確涉及糧食安全剛剛陳部長有說美方當然會期待市場開放不過有關最重要的糧食安全也是我方考量的一個\n原則但是我們的確沒有辦法就每一項談因為如果我們談了是不是屆時影響最終談判的這個結果我們想要維護一個最好的一個結果這第一點那第二點如果是對我們有互補性的項目我想這個也許就是可以在這個考量的範圍那或者是我國是依賴進口的部分但進口部分在國家之間的替代這個也是也許是一種考量所以我們會綜合考量\n整個我們的糧食安全跟產業利益來跟美方做相關的談判剛才副院長跟部長都有提到有一些互補性的比方說它能夠有效的把我們畜牧產業反而是有利的因為它可以壓低我們的進口的價格的那當然就是成為我們互相互利談判的一個基礎但是我剛才有提到一方面我提到精品把這個我們的稻米精品化但是我為什麼又提到工糧收購為什麼要提到要把價格的這個保證原因是因為同樣的農夫\n同樣在做稻米的這些種植有一部分是最脆弱的我們比較老農對他們來講要精品化等等的話對他們來說的成本太大對我們來講我們與其要每一個產業走一百步我們希望每一個人都可以有機會來成長所以我為什麼還在持續的講說包含工糧收購 保價收購還需要因應物價來去調整我們要保護的就是這些老農這些我們可能在最脆弱的一環\n所以它彼此之間是不矛盾的甚至是有互補的再來就是我們的畜牧產業剛才有提到包含特別是白肉雞這跟我們日常的生活飲食是息息相關未來美國會大量極度便宜的如果是進口的雞腿雞翅等等都切塊這些我們國內產業可能很難競爭我想請教一下部長你有什麼樣的方案\n我跟委員報告白肉機的部分現在進口的白肉機的部分占差不多全台灣使用的35%那這35%其實幾乎百分之百都是由美國進來的所以美國已經有在進白肉機\n另外一个就是白肉鸡进来的都是特殊部位的部分它跟国产鸡肉的消费的市场是不一样的所以后续我们在处理这一块的时候我们都是在不管是现在或未来我们一直希望说维护我们国内的产业它的市场的一个区隔性所以我们才能够去面对未来的任何的一个挑战所以后续的这些品牌后续的国内鸡肉的部分的一个市场的区隔我们会加强来努力\n好那再來就是酪農的部分那其實之前有一陣子衛福部也在討論這件事情這個應該不會在這一次的關稅談判中裡面有包括在裡面吧所有的品項其實美國都有期待但是我們也有我們的要守護的部分部長我就宣誓性講一下因為這個事情兩三個月前我們好不容易有說服我們的這些酪農朋友請把他們的權益一定要放在\n這個討論的裡面我強調這次我花很多的篇幅在強調農業的原因是因為我們都知道台積電是台灣的火車頭但是糧食安全國民的健康守護這些的就是農業所以我請農業部部長跟副院長能夠把這個事情不要把它納入最不重要的事情要把它納入最重要的事情的考量之一\n接下來要針對政府對232條款的因應策略這個部分我先請教院長院長現在我們的輿論是主要是在焦點是20%的關稅有沒有機會爭取到調降或者是不疊加\n但是這個前提可能是透過傳統的談判或者是擴大採購等等來去做討論可是這個232的情況比較複雜因為它是有國家安全的戰略的行動在考量在裡面它不是單純的降本求利而已它是在討論國家安全哪一項目它認為會影響到他們的國家安全所以如果編長我們也認同矽頓的概念跟單純的經濟關稅有差別的話\n除了談判辦公室之外我們是要納入處理國家安全地緣政治層級的部會來去協助目前是有哪個單位在協助做這個部分的說服嗎\n是談判的過程 參與談判的嗎我們除了經濟部 勞動部國家安全相關的有嗎我們有把國安系統的建議都把它拉進來有經濟部 國發會 財政部國安會這些都在我們談判小組我們希望這個在\n232的部分他的談判他除了談判辦公室之外他必須是到國家安全層級的所以不是只是派員可能是要派相當有影響力的相當影響力的人物來去參與我們是整個政府整體一起決策一起參與\n那再來就是也是跟國家安全相關因為月初這個華盛頓郵報或者是美方的媒體都有提到說這次的關稅談判是不是有涉及軍購或者是軍事安全等議題應該是有嗎沒有 談判沒有跟軍購相關沒有跟安全領域相關 目前都沒有\n跟委員報告因為我方在談判過程也向美方表達說我國賴清德總統在20月的時候就已經正式公開對外來宣示我國未來國防預算要達到GDP3%\n所以這是我方總統已經正式對外公開承諾所以雙方就這個部分沒有再進一步多做討論院長其實我是建議把安全的議題納入關稅當中因為剛才提到農業很多敏感的產業但是在安全的產業上面其實我們是需要更多更好的技術更多的裝備來去因應中國的威脅那這個部分同時是我們需要購買的\n如果我們是把農業納進去那犧牲部分的農業它是有雙重衝擊的但是在安全領域上面特別是在商購上面當我們購買這些裝備 器具 技術人員的訓練等等它其實是有增加我國籌碼的幫助的\n那特別是商購的部分我看之前國防部長有提到商購是不納入軍購裡面的計算的如果我們可以自己創造籌碼來增加讓我們農業有更多的機會的話我希望是可以做的軍購的部分當然就尊重國防部這邊的規劃我想國防部國安會會有規劃謝謝陳委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:17.008 --> 00:24.135\n好我們請院長我們請卓院長備詢跟部長農業部部長農業部部長備詢陳國元好院長好部長好\n\n00:36.172 --> 00:57.305\n院長我想其實剛才已經有多次確認過了不只在野黨跟執政黨的委員都有確認過最近有媒體他報導說可能會犧牲農業全面開放來去換取這個關稅的調整不過總統府跟行政機關都已經予以證實澄清沒有這件事情\n\n00:58.510 --> 01:17.859\n但是我還是必須要確認一下我們目前的方案是沒有定案的至少在我剛才提到有很多各項的這些農產品但是我最重視的是像包含稻米還有雞跟豬目前都還沒有定案對吧目前雙方都提出一些方案但是\n\n01:18.769 --> 01:32.705\n都還沒有達成協議所以這些方案的內容現在都沒有一樣是說已經到最後那樣達成協議的最後的這個所謂總結會議的這個答案出來所以也沒有到這個所謂的聯合聲明也沒有到總結會議的雙方的達成協議\n\n01:34.287 --> 02:01.744\n但都在進行當中那剛才副院長也有提到說這個糧食安全國民健康是不能妥協的那特別是糧食安全這件事情特別還有我們中南部雲嘉南地區稻米是我們的主要的產值之一所以我們很希望這一個是很重要重中之重日本的這個經驗也值得我們學習就是這一次他們在稻米上面的相對的讓步造成他們的一些農民的民怨這點我們一定務必\n\n02:02.825 --> 02:28.562\n要放在我們的考量範圍那我想現在的台美的貿易這個狀況其實是面臨雙重困局多重挑戰首先就是農業你要犧牲農業來去成就中小企業嗎還是你要把中小企業的稅率把它降低就是這些關稅降低那去保護我們農業還是要用台積電來大量的投資換取兩個產業之間能夠更有競爭力但不管怎麼樣這些都是挑戰\n\n02:29.423 --> 02:57.103\n可是對我們來說特別是總統有提到均衡台灣我們要重視的不是強勢產業而已比如說台積電的表現大家都知道它有它的這個重要的核心技術我們希望它留在台灣但是我們更不能夠忘記能夠承載著整個國家的糧食安全就在我們中南部就是我們的稻米就是包含我們的雞豬跟稻米這些重要的我們的食物的安全糧食的安全所以我可以理解我們現在在談判的難處我們現在在談判中\n\n02:57.623 --> 03:24.536\n但是我們必須要對所有的結果首先預先做好準備所以我們不可以等到說到時候協議簽署之後然後我們再倉促的先用發販補助金這種方式用這種最草率的方式我們現在就要把所有的預案先想好到時候才能夠選擇來去對農業最大的保障那我想請教一下現在在價格競爭力的這個嚴重銷售之下我們要怎麼樣系統性的來協助我們的中小企業\n\n03:25.416 --> 03:34.130\n包含你剛之前我看跟其他委員沒有聽到的是擴大信保基金提供融資跟利息補貼等等金融工具之外還有什麼樣的方向\n\n03:35.609 --> 04:02.801\n我們在農業跟工業各有我們先從中小企業這個特別是跟工具機產業相關的不知道部長有什麼想法中小企業除了我們原來有的中小企業的多元振興方案之外我們對於工業部門我們也會協助它金融的支持還有它一些財政相關稅務的成本的降低也協助它升級轉型等等這個都是在特別條例當中都有名列的\n\n04:03.791 --> 04:27.851\n特別跟院長還有其他相關的官員來提醒就是我們有接到一些其實不只是中部甚至包含江南地區有一些工廠他們都有提到說把工具機扣件等關鍵產業的標準與法規的互相認證來提高讓我們這些檢驗合格的產品能夠更快速的進入美國市場不要去增加它重複檢驗的時間跟費用不少這部分有沒有什麼樣的回應\n\n04:30.037 --> 04:49.472\n這個部分我想我們會照委員反映的民情這個部分我們會來處理好這個盡量是快速因為如果我們在關稅在金額上面如果遇到挑戰的話至少我們在進入市場的速度上面我們至少要能夠快速的去反映再來就是我們必須要把價格競爭轉到品質的競爭\n\n04:54.716 --> 05:17.283\n現在有沒有什麼具體計畫像是技術輔導團直接進駐產業聚落提供客製化的優化服務而不是只是提供貸款這方面有沒有什麼樣的相關的推動跟文報告其實現在我們跟法人一起來輔導我們這些工具機產業還有一些相關受衝擊的產業我們先用AI市產線的部分讓他們能夠整個產線它能夠升級轉型\n\n05:24.125 --> 05:51.382\n那另外就是工具機他也可以開發一些相關AI相關的這個產品的這個升級這個部分我想這個都是我們希望把整個產業能夠讓他整個這個產品跟設備的這些附加價值率能夠提升的一個方法做一點補充有關中小企業多元有這個發展相關的貸款還有外銷貸款以外還有一個研發補助的部分就是協助企業的這個升級轉型\n\n05:52.472 --> 06:20.078\n那這個每家企業最高五百萬產業聯盟一起申請四千萬裡面也包含的相關的這個太舊換新的設備擴大內需等我想這些經濟部其實我們在四月二號對等關稅公布的時候院長已經有責成我們提出一個完整的支持方案那後續也從八百八十億增加到九百三十億那現在任性條例裡面也希望未來再匡列兩百億來增加來強化產業的這個支持\n\n06:21.443 --> 06:34.774\n尤其委員關心的衝擊比較大跟競爭國相對關稅相對有劣勢的像工具機機械等等或者是農業的一些項目我想各部會再給予個別個案的支持\n\n06:35.694 --> 07:03.354\n好謝謝副院長再來就是農業的部分剛才有提到的美國規模化低成本的農產品它直接長驅植入的部分想請教一下部長美國的地價米如果長驅植入的話它的國內的價格會受到影響現在的現行的公糧收購保價收購的制度我們是希望能夠持續下去而且要因應物價來做調整作為穩定市場的\n\n07:04.332 --> 07:21.851\n最後一道防線除了被動收購之外行政院或農業部有沒有針對稻米產業升級的計畫例如全力支持我們的特色米種來進行品牌化的行銷還是效法日本月光米的模式將台灣米我們從主食\n\n07:22.572 --> 07:43.059\n把它提升為精品這部分部長會給我們一些回應我跟委員說明就是有關於稻作的部分我們從今年年初推的稻作糧食安全升級方案現在的產地價都非常好業農民也非常開心所以稻米是一個糧食安全非常重要的產物所以也是我們必須要去守護的\n\n07:43.699 --> 08:02.711\n雖然說美國在那邊有他的期待但是我們有我們要守護的所以這就必須要持續的溝通那現在談判還沒有結束我們一定會去守護我們最重要的糧食安全的一個產物我們會達到這樣的希望達到這樣的一個目標第二個部分就是您剛才講的很多美國產品進來以後會不會對國內的物價有影響\n\n08:05.453 --> 08:21.532\n我要跟您報告就是不是所有的零關稅都非常可怕有一些產品是我們原物料的像黃小玉的部分如果他現在都零關稅零關稅進來以後對於我們飼料成本會降低對於我們產業反而是好的\n\n08:21.952 --> 08:44.859\n那有一些產品本身它本身就是跟我們是我們本身生產非常少的那這一類的產品它其實是可以滿足我們的消費者的需求所以我們也做了非常多的這樣的分析那的確有一些產品是可能會到衝擊的那這些衝擊的部分我們也完成了衝擊分析也完成了一些後面的因應方案\n\n08:46.092 --> 09:07.939\n所以部長我剛才提到就是講稻米那對於剛才你說到用的飼料用對畜牧產業的這些可能的爭議的地方我也希望未來能夠來清楚的跟民眾講想補充三點第一點就是農業敏感項目這個的確涉及糧食安全剛剛陳部長有說美方當然會期待市場開放不過有關最重要的糧食安全也是我方考量的一個\n\n09:08.599 --> 09:33.199\n原則但是我們的確沒有辦法就每一項談因為如果我們談了是不是屆時影響最終談判的這個結果我們想要維護一個最好的一個結果這第一點那第二點如果是對我們有互補性的項目我想這個也許就是可以在這個考量的範圍那或者是我國是依賴進口的部分但進口部分在國家之間的替代這個也是也許是一種考量所以我們會綜合考量\n\n09:33.935 --> 10:01.946\n整個我們的糧食安全跟產業利益來跟美方做相關的談判剛才副院長跟部長都有提到有一些互補性的比方說它能夠有效的把我們畜牧產業反而是有利的因為它可以壓低我們的進口的價格的那當然就是成為我們互相互利談判的一個基礎但是我剛才有提到一方面我提到精品把這個我們的稻米精品化但是我為什麼又提到工糧收購為什麼要提到要把價格的這個保證原因是因為同樣的農夫\n\n10:03.266 --> 10:29.807\n同樣在做稻米的這些種植有一部分是最脆弱的我們比較老農對他們來講要精品化等等的話對他們來說的成本太大對我們來講我們與其要每一個產業走一百步我們希望每一個人都可以有機會來成長所以我為什麼還在持續的講說包含工糧收購保價收購還需要因應物價來去調整我們要保護的就是這些老農這些我們可能在最脆弱的一環\n\n10:30.267 --> 10:55.001\n所以它彼此之間是不矛盾的甚至是有互補的再來就是我們的畜牧產業剛才有提到包含特別是白肉雞這跟我們日常的生活飲食是息息相關未來美國會大量極度便宜的如果是進口的雞腿雞翅等等都切塊這些我們國內產業可能很難競爭我想請教一下部長你有什麼樣的方案\n\n10:56.277 --> 11:10.883\n我跟委員報告白肉機的部分現在進口的白肉機的部分占差不多全台灣使用的35%那這35%其實幾乎百分之百都是由美國進來的所以美國已經有在進白肉機\n\n11:12.170 --> 11:40.977\n另外一个就是白肉鸡进来的都是特殊部位的部分它跟国产鸡肉的消费的市场是不一样的所以后续我们在处理这一块的时候我们都是在不管是现在或未来我们一直希望说维护我们国内的产业它的市场的一个区隔性所以我们才能够去面对未来的任何的一个挑战所以后续的这些品牌后续的国内鸡肉的部分的一个市场的区隔我们会加强来努力\n\n11:41.616 --> 12:07.772\n好那再來就是酪農的部分那其實之前有一陣子衛福部也在討論這件事情這個應該不會在這一次的關稅談判中裡面有包括在裡面吧所有的品項其實美國都有期待但是我們也有我們的要守護的部分部長我就宣誓性講一下因為這個事情兩三個月前我們好不容易有說服我們的這些酪農朋友請把他們的權益一定要放在\n\n12:09.649 --> 12:30.010\n這個討論的裡面我強調這次我花很多的篇幅在強調農業的原因是因為我們都知道台積電是台灣的火車頭但是糧食安全國民的健康守護這些的就是農業所以我請農業部部長跟副院長能夠把這個事情不要把它納入最不重要的事情要把它納入最重要的事情的考量之一\n\n12:30.612 --> 12:44.714\n接下來要針對政府對232條款的因應策略這個部分我先請教院長院長現在我們的輿論是主要是在焦點是20%的關稅有沒有機會爭取到調降或者是不疊加\n\n12:45.655 --> 13:08.093\n但是這個前提可能是透過傳統的談判或者是擴大採購等等來去做討論可是這個232的情況比較複雜因為它是有國家安全的戰略的行動在考量在裡面它不是單純的降本求利而已它是在討論國家安全哪一項目它認為會影響到他們的國家安全所以如果編長我們也認同矽頓的概念跟單純的經濟關稅有差別的話\n\n13:10.734 --> 13:20.979\n除了談判辦公室之外我們是要納入處理國家安全地緣政治層級的部會來去協助目前是有哪個單位在協助做這個部分的說服嗎\n\n13:22.867 --> 13:42.104\n是談判的過程參與談判的嗎我們除了經濟部勞動部國家安全相關的有嗎我們有把國安系統的建議都把它拉進來有經濟部國發會財政部國安會這些都在我們談判小組我們希望這個在\n\n13:44.006 --> 14:00.608\n232的部分他的談判他除了談判辦公室之外他必須是到國家安全層級的所以不是只是派員可能是要派相當有影響力的相當影響力的人物來去參與我們是整個政府整體一起決策一起參與\n\n14:02.306 --> 14:22.339\n那再來就是也是跟國家安全相關因為月初這個華盛頓郵報或者是美方的媒體都有提到說這次的關稅談判是不是有涉及軍購或者是軍事安全等議題應該是有嗎沒有談判沒有跟軍購相關沒有跟安全領域相關目前都沒有\n\n14:23.870 --> 14:38.245\n跟委員報告因為我方在談判過程也向美方表達說我國賴清德總統在20月的時候就已經正式公開對外來宣示我國未來國防預算要達到GDP3%\n\n14:40.187 --> 15:02.842\n所以這是我方總統已經正式對外公開承諾所以雙方就這個部分沒有再進一步多做討論院長其實我是建議把安全的議題納入關稅當中因為剛才提到農業很多敏感的產業但是在安全的產業上面其實我們是需要更多更好的技術更多的裝備來去因應中國的威脅那這個部分同時是我們需要購買的\n\n15:04.263 --> 15:20.036\n如果我們是把農業納進去那犧牲部分的農業它是有雙重衝擊的但是在安全領域上面特別是在商購上面當我們購買這些裝備器具技術人員的訓練等等它其實是有增加我國籌碼的幫助的\n\n15:21.257 --> 15:37.046\n那特別是商購的部分我看之前國防部長有提到商購是不納入軍購裡面的計算的如果我們可以自己創造籌碼來增加讓我們農業有更多的機會的話我希望是可以做的軍購的部分當然就尊重國防部這邊的規劃我想國防部國安會會有規劃謝謝陳委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":17.008,"end":24.135,"text":"好 我們請院長我們請卓院長備詢跟部長 農業部部長農業部部長備詢陳國元好院長好 部長好"},{"start":36.172,"end":57.305,"text":"院長我想其實剛才已經有多次確認過了不只在野黨跟執政黨的委員都有確認過最近有媒體他報導說可能會犧牲農業全面開放來去換取這個關稅的調整不過總統府跟行政機關都已經予以證實澄清沒有這件事情"},{"start":58.51,"end":77.859,"text":"但是我還是必須要確認一下我們目前的方案是沒有定案的至少在我剛才提到有很多各項的這些農產品但是我最重視的是像包含稻米還有雞跟豬目前都還沒有定案對吧目前雙方都提出一些方案但是"},{"start":78.769,"end":92.705,"text":"都還沒有達成協議所以這些方案的內容現在都沒有一樣是說已經到最後那樣達成協議的最後的這個所謂總結會議的這個答案出來所以也沒有到這個所謂的聯合聲明也沒有到總結會議的雙方的達成協議"},{"start":94.287,"end":121.744,"text":"但都在進行當中那剛才副院長也有提到說這個糧食安全國民健康是不能妥協的那特別是糧食安全這件事情特別還有我們中南部雲嘉南地區稻米是我們的主要的產值之一所以我們很希望這一個是很重要重中之重日本的這個經驗也值得我們學習就是這一次他們在稻米上面的相對的讓步造成他們的一些農民的民怨這點我們一定務必"},{"start":122.825,"end":148.562,"text":"要放在我們的考量範圍那我想現在的台美的貿易這個狀況其實是面臨雙重困局 多重挑戰首先就是農業你要犧牲農業來去成就中小企業嗎還是你要把中小企業的稅率把它降低就是這些關稅降低那去保護我們農業還是要用台積電來大量的投資換取兩個產業之間能夠更有競爭力但不管怎麼樣這些都是挑戰"},{"start":149.423,"end":177.103,"text":"可是對我們來說特別是總統有提到均衡台灣我們要重視的不是強勢產業而已比如說台積電的表現大家都知道它有它的這個重要的核心技術我們希望它留在台灣但是我們更不能夠忘記能夠承載著整個國家的糧食安全就在我們中南部就是我們的稻米就是包含我們的雞豬跟稻米這些重要的我們的食物的安全 糧食的安全所以我可以理解我們現在在談判的難處我們現在在談判中"},{"start":177.623,"end":204.536,"text":"但是我們必須要對所有的結果首先預先做好準備所以我們不可以等到說到時候協議簽署之後然後我們再倉促的先用發販補助金這種方式用這種最草率的方式我們現在就要把所有的預案先想好到時候才能夠選擇來去對農業最大的保障那我想請教一下現在在價格競爭力的這個嚴重銷售之下我們要怎麼樣系統性的來協助我們的中小企業"},{"start":205.416,"end":214.13,"text":"包含你剛之前我看跟其他委員沒有聽到的是擴大信保基金提供融資跟利息補貼等等金融工具之外還有什麼樣的方向"},{"start":215.609,"end":242.801,"text":"我們在農業跟工業各有我們先從中小企業這個特別是跟工具機產業相關的不知道部長有什麼想法中小企業除了我們原來有的中小企業的多元振興方案之外我們對於工業部門我們也會協助它金融的支持還有它一些財政相關稅務的成本的降低也協助它升級轉型等等這個都是在特別條例當中都有名列的"},{"start":243.791,"end":267.851,"text":"特別跟院長還有其他相關的官員來提醒就是我們有接到一些其實不只是中部甚至包含江南地區有一些工廠他們都有提到說把工具機扣件等關鍵產業的標準與法規的互相認證來提高讓我們這些檢驗合格的產品能夠更快速的進入美國市場不要去增加它重複檢驗的時間跟費用不少這部分有沒有什麼樣的回應"},{"start":270.037,"end":289.472,"text":"這個部分我想我們會照委員反映的民情這個部分我們會來處理好 這個盡量是快速因為如果我們在關稅在金額上面如果遇到挑戰的話至少我們在進入市場的速度上面我們至少要能夠快速的去反映再來就是我們必須要把價格競爭轉到品質的競爭"},{"start":294.716,"end":317.283,"text":"現在有沒有什麼具體計畫像是技術輔導團直接進駐產業聚落提供客製化的優化服務而不是只是提供貸款這方面有沒有什麼樣的相關的推動跟文報告其實現在我們跟法人一起來輔導我們這些工具機產業還有一些相關受衝擊的產業我們先用AI市產線的部分讓他們能夠整個產線它能夠升級轉型"},{"start":324.125,"end":351.382,"text":"那另外就是工具機他也可以開發一些相關AI相關的這個產品的這個升級這個部分我想這個都是我們希望把整個產業能夠讓他整個這個產品跟設備的這些附加價值率能夠提升的一個方法做一點補充有關中小企業多元有這個發展相關的貸款還有外銷貸款以外還有一個研發補助的部分就是協助企業的這個升級轉型"},{"start":352.472,"end":380.078,"text":"那這個每家企業最高五百萬產業聯盟一起申請四千萬裡面也包含的相關的這個太舊換新的設備擴大內需等我想這些經濟部其實我們在四月二號對等關稅公布的時候院長已經有責成我們提出一個完整的支持方案那後續也從八百八十億增加到九百三十億那現在任性條例裡面也希望未來再匡列兩百億來增加來強化產業的這個支持"},{"start":381.443,"end":394.774,"text":"尤其委員關心的衝擊比較大跟競爭國相對 關稅相對有劣勢的像工具機 機械等等或者是農業的一些項目我想各部會再給予個別個案的支持"},{"start":395.694,"end":423.354,"text":"好 謝謝副院長再來就是農業的部分剛才有提到的美國規模化低成本的農產品它直接長驅植入的部分想請教一下部長美國的地價米如果長驅植入的話它的國內的價格會受到影響現在的現行的公糧收購保價收購的制度我們是希望能夠持續下去而且要因應物價來做調整作為穩定市場的"},{"start":424.332,"end":441.851,"text":"最後一道防線除了被動收購之外行政院或農業部有沒有針對稻米產業升級的計畫例如全力支持我們的特色米種來進行品牌化的行銷還是效法日本月光米的模式將台灣米我們從主食"},{"start":442.572,"end":463.059,"text":"把它提升為精品這部分部長會給我們一些回應我跟委員說明就是有關於稻作的部分我們從今年年初推的稻作糧食安全升級方案現在的產地價都非常好業農民也非常開心所以稻米是一個糧食安全非常重要的產物所以也是我們必須要去守護的"},{"start":463.699,"end":482.711,"text":"雖然說美國在那邊有他的期待但是我們有我們要守護的所以這就必須要持續的溝通那現在談判還沒有結束我們一定會去守護我們最重要的糧食安全的一個產物我們會達到這樣的希望達到這樣的一個目標第二個部分就是您剛才講的很多美國產品進來以後會不會對國內的物價有影響"},{"start":485.453,"end":501.532,"text":"我要跟您報告就是不是所有的零關稅都非常可怕有一些產品是我們原物料的像黃小玉的部分如果他現在都零關稅零關稅進來以後對於我們飼料成本會降低對於我們產業反而是好的"},{"start":501.952,"end":524.859,"text":"那有一些產品本身它本身就是跟我們是我們本身生產非常少的那這一類的產品它其實是可以滿足我們的消費者的需求所以我們也做了非常多的這樣的分析那的確有一些產品是可能會到衝擊的那這些衝擊的部分我們也完成了衝擊分析也完成了一些後面的因應方案"},{"start":526.092,"end":547.939,"text":"所以部長我剛才提到就是講稻米那對於剛才你說到用的飼料用對畜牧產業的這些可能的爭議的地方我也希望未來能夠來清楚的跟民眾講想補充三點第一點就是農業敏感項目這個的確涉及糧食安全剛剛陳部長有說美方當然會期待市場開放不過有關最重要的糧食安全也是我方考量的一個"},{"start":548.599,"end":573.199,"text":"原則但是我們的確沒有辦法就每一項談因為如果我們談了是不是屆時影響最終談判的這個結果我們想要維護一個最好的一個結果這第一點那第二點如果是對我們有互補性的項目我想這個也許就是可以在這個考量的範圍那或者是我國是依賴進口的部分但進口部分在國家之間的替代這個也是也許是一種考量所以我們會綜合考量"},{"start":573.935,"end":601.946,"text":"整個我們的糧食安全跟產業利益來跟美方做相關的談判剛才副院長跟部長都有提到有一些互補性的比方說它能夠有效的把我們畜牧產業反而是有利的因為它可以壓低我們的進口的價格的那當然就是成為我們互相互利談判的一個基礎但是我剛才有提到一方面我提到精品把這個我們的稻米精品化但是我為什麼又提到工糧收購為什麼要提到要把價格的這個保證原因是因為同樣的農夫"},{"start":603.266,"end":629.807,"text":"同樣在做稻米的這些種植有一部分是最脆弱的我們比較老農對他們來講要精品化等等的話對他們來說的成本太大對我們來講我們與其要每一個產業走一百步我們希望每一個人都可以有機會來成長所以我為什麼還在持續的講說包含工糧收購 保價收購還需要因應物價來去調整我們要保護的就是這些老農這些我們可能在最脆弱的一環"},{"start":630.267,"end":655.001,"text":"所以它彼此之間是不矛盾的甚至是有互補的再來就是我們的畜牧產業剛才有提到包含特別是白肉雞這跟我們日常的生活飲食是息息相關未來美國會大量極度便宜的如果是進口的雞腿雞翅等等都切塊這些我們國內產業可能很難競爭我想請教一下部長你有什麼樣的方案"},{"start":656.277,"end":670.883,"text":"我跟委員報告白肉機的部分現在進口的白肉機的部分占差不多全台灣使用的35%那這35%其實幾乎百分之百都是由美國進來的所以美國已經有在進白肉機"},{"start":672.17,"end":700.977,"text":"另外一个就是白肉鸡进来的都是特殊部位的部分它跟国产鸡肉的消费的市场是不一样的所以后续我们在处理这一块的时候我们都是在不管是现在或未来我们一直希望说维护我们国内的产业它的市场的一个区隔性所以我们才能够去面对未来的任何的一个挑战所以后续的这些品牌后续的国内鸡肉的部分的一个市场的区隔我们会加强来努力"},{"start":701.616,"end":727.772,"text":"好那再來就是酪農的部分那其實之前有一陣子衛福部也在討論這件事情這個應該不會在這一次的關稅談判中裡面有包括在裡面吧所有的品項其實美國都有期待但是我們也有我們的要守護的部分部長我就宣誓性講一下因為這個事情兩三個月前我們好不容易有說服我們的這些酪農朋友請把他們的權益一定要放在"},{"start":729.649,"end":750.01,"text":"這個討論的裡面我強調這次我花很多的篇幅在強調農業的原因是因為我們都知道台積電是台灣的火車頭但是糧食安全國民的健康守護這些的就是農業所以我請農業部部長跟副院長能夠把這個事情不要把它納入最不重要的事情要把它納入最重要的事情的考量之一"},{"start":750.612,"end":764.714,"text":"接下來要針對政府對232條款的因應策略這個部分我先請教院長院長現在我們的輿論是主要是在焦點是20%的關稅有沒有機會爭取到調降或者是不疊加"},{"start":765.655,"end":788.093,"text":"但是這個前提可能是透過傳統的談判或者是擴大採購等等來去做討論可是這個232的情況比較複雜因為它是有國家安全的戰略的行動在考量在裡面它不是單純的降本求利而已它是在討論國家安全哪一項目它認為會影響到他們的國家安全所以如果編長我們也認同矽頓的概念跟單純的經濟關稅有差別的話"},{"start":790.734,"end":800.979,"text":"除了談判辦公室之外我們是要納入處理國家安全地緣政治層級的部會來去協助目前是有哪個單位在協助做這個部分的說服嗎"},{"start":802.867,"end":822.104,"text":"是談判的過程 參與談判的嗎我們除了經濟部 勞動部國家安全相關的有嗎我們有把國安系統的建議都把它拉進來有經濟部 國發會 財政部國安會這些都在我們談判小組我們希望這個在"},{"start":824.006,"end":840.608,"text":"232的部分他的談判他除了談判辦公室之外他必須是到國家安全層級的所以不是只是派員可能是要派相當有影響力的相當影響力的人物來去參與我們是整個政府整體一起決策一起參與"},{"start":842.306,"end":862.339,"text":"那再來就是也是跟國家安全相關因為月初這個華盛頓郵報或者是美方的媒體都有提到說這次的關稅談判是不是有涉及軍購或者是軍事安全等議題應該是有嗎沒有 談判沒有跟軍購相關沒有跟安全領域相關 目前都沒有"},{"start":863.87,"end":878.245,"text":"跟委員報告因為我方在談判過程也向美方表達說我國賴清德總統在20月的時候就已經正式公開對外來宣示我國未來國防預算要達到GDP3%"},{"start":880.187,"end":902.842,"text":"所以這是我方總統已經正式對外公開承諾所以雙方就這個部分沒有再進一步多做討論院長其實我是建議把安全的議題納入關稅當中因為剛才提到農業很多敏感的產業但是在安全的產業上面其實我們是需要更多更好的技術更多的裝備來去因應中國的威脅那這個部分同時是我們需要購買的"},{"start":904.263,"end":920.036,"text":"如果我們是把農業納進去那犧牲部分的農業它是有雙重衝擊的但是在安全領域上面特別是在商購上面當我們購買這些裝備 器具 技術人員的訓練等等它其實是有增加我國籌碼的幫助的"},{"start":921.257,"end":937.046,"text":"那特別是商購的部分我看之前國防部長有提到商購是不納入軍購裡面的計算的如果我們可以自己創造籌碼來增加讓我們農業有更多的機會的話我希望是可以做的軍購的部分當然就尊重國防部這邊的規劃我想國防部國安會會有規劃謝謝陳委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1059,"blocks":[["陳委員冠廷：（12時12分）我們請院長。"],["主席：我們請卓院長備詢。"],["陳委員冠廷：跟農業部部長。"],["主席：農業部部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：陳委員好。"],["陳委員冠廷：院長好、部長好。院長，其實剛才已經有多次確認過，不只在野黨跟執政黨的委員都有確認過，最近有媒體報導說可能會犧牲農業、全面開放去換取關稅的調整，不過總統府跟行政機關都已經予以證實、澄清沒有這件事情，但是我還是必須要確認一下，我們目前的方案是沒有定案的，至少在我……剛才提到有很多各項的這些農產品，但是我最重視的包含稻米還有雞跟豬，目前都還沒有定案對吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：目前雙方都提出一些方案，但是都還沒有達成協議，所以這些方案的內容現在都沒有一樣是已經到達成協議，就是有最後所謂的總結會議的答案出來，所以也沒有到所謂的聯合聲明，也沒有到總結會議的雙方達成協議，都沒有。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，那院長這樣很好……"],["卓院長榮泰：但都在進行當中。"],["陳委員冠廷：進行中，剛才副院長也有提到糧食安全、國民健康是不能妥協的。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒錯。"],["陳委員冠廷：特別是糧食安全這件事情，還有中南部雲嘉南地區，稻米是我們的主要產值之一，所以我們很希望……這個是很重要、重中之重，日本的經驗也值得我們學習，這一次他們在稻米上面的相對讓步，造成他們一些農民的民怨，這點一定務必要放在我們的考量範圍。我想現在臺美貿易這個狀況，其實是面臨雙重困局、多重挑戰，首先就是農業，你要犧牲農業來去成就中小企業嗎？還是你要把中小企業的稅率降低，就是這些關稅降低，去保護我們農業？還是要用台積電的大量投資換取兩個產業之間能夠更有競爭力？但不管怎麼樣，這些都是挑戰，可是對我們來說，特別是總統有提到均衡臺灣，我們要重視的不是強勢產業而已，也就是說台積電的表現大家都知道，它有它重要的核心技術，我們希望它留在臺灣。但是我們更不能夠忘記能夠承載著整個國家的糧食安全就在我們中南部，就是我們的稻米，就是包含雞、豬及稻米，這些重要食物的安全、糧食的安全。所以我可以理解我們現在談判的難處，我們現在還在談判中，但是我們必須要對所有的結果都預先做好準備，我們不可以等到時候協議簽署之後，然後再倉促的像用發放補助金這種方式，用這種最草率的方式，我們現在就要把所有的預案先想好，到時候才能夠對農業選擇最大的保障。","請教一下，現在在價格競爭力的嚴重削弱之下，要怎麼樣系統性的協助我們的中小企業？包含之前我跟其他委員們有提到擴大信保基金、提供融資及利息補貼等等金融工具之外，還有什麼樣的方向？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在農業跟工業各有……"],["陳委員冠廷：我們先從中小企業，特別是與工具機產業相關者，不知道部長有什麼樣的……"],["卓院長榮泰：中小企業，除了原來有的中小企業多元振興方案之外，對於工業部門，我們也會協助它金融的支持，還有一些財政相關稅務成本的降低，也協助它升級、轉型等等，這個都是在特別條例當中有明列的。"],["陳委員冠廷：特別跟院長，還有其他相關的官員提醒，就是我們有接到其實不只是中部，甚至包含嘉南地區有一些工廠他們都有提到，把工具機、扣件等關鍵產業的標準與法規的互相認證提高，讓這些檢驗合格的產品能夠更快速地進入美國市場，不要增加它重複檢驗的時間及費用，不曉得這部分有沒有什麼樣的回應？"],["何次長晉滄：這個部分我們會照委員所反映的民情部分，我們會來處理。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，這個儘量快速，因為如果我們在關稅金額上面遇到挑戰的話，在進入市場的速度上面，我們至少要能夠快速地反應。","再來就是我們必須要把價格競爭轉到品質的競爭，現在有沒有什麼具體計畫？像是技術輔導團直接進駐產業聚落提供客製化的優化服務，而不只是提供貸款，這方面有沒有什麼樣相關的推動？"],["何次長晉滄：跟委員報告，其實現在我們跟法人一起輔導這些工具機產業，還有一些相關受衝擊的產業，我們先用AI試產線的部分，讓他們整個產線能夠升級轉型。另外就是工具機，它也可以開發一些AI相關產品的升級，這個部分都是我們希望把整個產業其產品及設備的附加價值率能夠提升的方法。"],["陳委員冠廷：好。"],["鄭副院長麗君：做一點補充，有關中小企業多元有發展相關的貸款，外銷貸款以外還有研發補助的部分，就是協助企業的升級轉型，每家企業最高500萬，產業聯盟一起申請是4,000萬，裡面也包含相關設備的汰舊換新、擴大內需等，我想這些經濟部……其實我們在4月2號對等關稅公布的時候，院長已經有責成我們提出一個完整的支持方案，後續也從880億增加到930億，現在韌性條例裡面也希望未來再匡列200億來增加、強化對產業的支持，尤其委員關心的，衝擊比較大、與競爭國關稅相對有劣勢的，像工具機、機械等等，或者是農業的一些項目，我想各部會會再給予個別個案的支持。"],["陳委員冠廷：謝謝副院長。再來就是農業的部分，剛才有提到美國規模化、低成本的農產品直接長驅直入的部分，想請教一下部長，美國的低價米如果長驅直入的話，它國內的價格會受到影響，現行的公糧保價收購制度，我們希望能夠持續下去，而且要因應物價來調整，作為穩定市場的最後一道防線。除了被動收購之外，行政院或農業部有沒有針對稻米產業升級的計畫，例如全力支持特色米種進行品牌化的行銷，還是效法日本月光米的模式，將臺灣米從主食提升為精品，這部分部長可不可以給我們一些回應？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員說明，就是有關於稻作的部分，我們從今年年初推的糧食產業全面升級計畫，現在的產地價都非常好，農民也非常開心，稻米是糧食安全非常重要的一個產物，也是我們必須要去守護的，雖然美國有它的期待，但是我們有我們要守護的，所以這就必須要持續溝通，現在談判還沒有結束，我們一定會去守護我們最重要的糧食安全的產物，我們希望達到這樣的目標。","第二個部分就是您剛才講的，很多美國產品進來以後會不會對國內的物價有影響，我要跟您報告的就是，不是所有的零關稅都非常可怕，有一些產品是原物料，像黃小玉的部分，現在就零關稅了，零關稅進來以後，我們的飼料成本會降低，對我們的產業反而是好的，有一些產品是我們本身生產非常少的，這一類的產品其實是可以滿足我們消費者的需求。我們做了非常多這樣的分析，的確有一些產品是可能會有衝擊的，這些衝擊的部分，我們也完成了衝擊分析，也完成了後面的因應方案。"],["陳委員冠廷：所以部長，我剛才提到的就是稻米，剛才你說到用在飼料，對畜牧產業的這些可能爭議的地方，我也希望未來農業部能夠清楚地跟民眾講。"],["鄭副院長麗君：我想補充三點，第一點就是農業敏感項目，這個的確涉及糧食安全，剛剛陳部長有說，美方當然會期待市場開放，不過攸關最重要的糧食安全，也是我方考量的一個原則，但是我們的確沒有辦法就每一項談，因為如果我們談了，是不是屆時影響最終的談判結果，我們想要維護一個最好的結果，這是第一點。第二點，如果是對我們有互補性的項目，我想這也許就在可以考量的範圍，或者我國是依賴進口的部分，進口部分在國家之間的替代，這也許也是一種考量，所以我們會綜合考量我們的糧食安全與產業利益，來跟美方做相關的談判。"],["陳委員冠廷：剛才副院長跟部長都有提到有些互補性的，比方說它對我們的畜牧產業反而是有利的，因為可以壓低我們的進口價格，當然就成為我們互相互利談判的一個基礎。但是我剛才有提到，一方面我提到精品，把我們的稻米精品化，但是我為什麼又提到公糧收購，為什麼又提到保證價格？原因是同樣的農夫同樣在做這些稻米的種植，有一部分是最脆弱的，也就是老農的部分，對他們來講，要精品化等等，對他們來說成本太大；對我們來講，與其每一個產業都走一百步，我們希望每一個人都可以有機會成長。所以我為什麼還在持續地講說包含公糧收購、保價收購，還需要因應物價來調整？我們要保護的就是這些老農，這些可能是我們最脆弱的一環，所以彼此之間是不矛盾的，甚至是有互補的。","再來就是我們的畜牧產業，剛才有提到，特別是白肉雞，這跟我們日常的生活飲食是息息相關，未來美國會進來大量且極度便宜的雞肉產品，如果是進口的雞腿、雞翅等等，都有切塊，這些我們國內產業可能很難競爭。我想請教一下部長，你有什麼樣的方案？"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，現在進口的白肉雞部分，差不多占全臺灣食用的35%，這35%中其實幾乎100%都是從美國進來的，所以已經有在進美國的白肉雞；另外一個就是白肉雞進來的都是特殊部位，跟國產雞肉的消費市場是不一樣的，所以後續我們在處理這一塊的時候，不管是現在或未來，我們一直希望能夠維護我們國內產業市場的區隔性，才能夠去面對未來的任何挑戰，所以後續國內的這些品牌、雞肉的市場區隔，我們會加強來努力。"],["陳委員冠廷：好。再來就是酪農的部分，其實之前有一陣子衛福部也在討論這件事情，這個應該不會包括在這一次的關稅談判中吧？"],["陳部長駿季：沒有，所有的品項其實美國都有期待，但如我們說的，我們也有我們要守護的部分。"],["陳委員冠廷：部長，我就宣示性講一下，因為這個事情，兩、三個月前我們好不容易有說服我們的這些酪農朋友，請把他們的權益一定要放在討論的裡面，這次我花很多篇幅在強調農業的原因是，我們都知道台積電是臺灣的火車頭，但是糧食安全、國民的健康，守護這些的就是農業，所以我請農業部部長跟副院長將這件事情，不能把它納入最不重要的事情，要把它納入最重要的事情的考量之一。","接下來要針對政府對232條款的因應策略，關於這個部分我先請教院長，現在我們的輿論焦點主要是在20%關稅有沒有機會爭取到調降或者是不疊加，這個前提可能是透過傳統的談判或者是擴大採購等等來去做討論，可是這個232的情況比較複雜，因為它是有國家安全戰略行動的考量在裡面，不是單純的將本求利而已，這是在討論國家安全，他認為哪一些項目會影響到他們的國家安全。院長，我們也認同矽盾的概念，如果這跟單純的經濟關稅有差別的話，除了談判辦公室之外，我們要納入處理國家安全、地緣政治層級的部會來去協助，目前有哪個單位在協助做這部分的說服？"],["卓院長榮泰：是指在談判過程參與談判的嗎？"],["陳委員冠廷：對。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們除了經濟部、勞動部……"],["陳委員冠廷：跟國家安全相關的有嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有把國安系統的建議都納入……"],["鄭副院長麗君：國安會。"],["陳委員冠廷：國安會有進入嘛？"],["鄭副院長麗君：經濟部、國發會、財政部、國安會這些都在我們談判小組，那農業、衛福部都在……"],["陳委員冠廷：我們希望在232的部分，除了談判辦公室之外，它必須到國家安全層級，所以不是只是派員，可能是要派相當有影響力的人物來去參與……"],["鄭副院長麗君：國安會都有參與，我們是整個政府整體一起決策、一起參與。"],["陳委員冠廷：好，再來也是跟國家安全相關，因為月初華盛頓郵報或者是美方媒體都有提到，這次的關稅談判是不是有涉及軍購或者是軍事安全等議題？應該是有？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，談判沒有跟軍購相關。"],["陳委員冠廷：沒有跟軍購相關？沒有跟安全領域有相關？目前都沒有？"],["卓院長榮泰：軍購沒有。"],["陳委員冠廷：商購是……剛才有講……"],["鄭副院長麗君：跟委員報告，因為我方在談判過程也向美方表達，我國賴清德總統在2月的時候就已經正式公開對外宣示，我國未來國防預算要達到GDP的3%，所以這是我方總統已經正式對外公開承諾，所以雙方就這個部分沒有再進一步多做討論。"],["陳委員冠廷：院長，其實我是建議把安全的議題納入關稅當中。"],["卓院長榮泰：有。"],["陳委員冠廷：因為剛才提到農業、很多敏感的產業，但是在安全的產業上面，其實我們是需要更多更好的技術、更多的裝備來去因應中國的威脅，這個部分同時是我們需要購買的，如果我們把農業納進去，那犧牲部分的農業，它是有雙重衝擊的，但是在安全領域上面，特別是在商購上面，當我們購買這些裝備、器具、技術、人員的訓練等等，它其實會增加我國的籌碼，特別是商購的部分，我看之前國防部長有提到商購是不納入軍購裡面的計算，如果我們可以自己創造籌碼來讓我們農業有更多機會的話，我希望是可以做的。"],["鄭副院長麗君：跟委員報告，軍購的部分當然就尊重國防部這邊的規劃，我想國防部、國安會會有規劃，我們也向美方表達我方自我防衛的決心跟立場。"],["陳委員冠廷：商購的部分……"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝陳委員，謝謝院長、副院長。","下一位請高金素梅委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":158,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-26","speakers":["江啟臣","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","許宇甄","林倩綺","陳昭姿","王定宇","黃珊珊","羅美玲","鍾佳濱","羅智強","陳冠廷","高金素梅","李坤城","黃健豪","陳亭妃","賴士葆","林岱樺","徐巧芯","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","牛煦庭"],"page_start":45,"meetingDate":["2025-08-25"],"gazette_id":"1147401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147401_00003","1147401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第26次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「臺美關稅談判之進程、方針、原則及臺灣產業可能遭受之衝擊影響評估」專案\n報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147401_00003"}}}