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\"早出來的時候大家覺得說台灣不錯因為從4月初美國提出關稅之後32%大家嚇得心驚膽跳結果到5月10幾號的時候美國財政部長說台灣有提出一個很不錯的提案我們就相信說我們的行政團隊一定跟美國提出了一些很不錯的一些deal有可能關稅搞不好在5月中下去就有可能確定了這是5月中的事情\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"早\", \"start\": 54.554, \"end\": 54.694, \"score\": 0.971}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 54.694, \"end\": 54.814, \"score\": 0.867}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 54.814, \"end\": 55.094, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 55.094, \"end\": 55.314, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"大\", \"start\": 55.314, \"end\": 55.515, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"家\", \"start\": 55.515, \"end\": 55.715, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"覺\"}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 55.715, \"end\": 56.315, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"台\", \"start\": 56.315, \"end\": 56.455, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"灣\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 56.455, \"end\": 58.176, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 58.176, \"end\": 58.296, \"score\": 0.833}, 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0.895}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 79.089, \"end\": 79.289, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 79.289, \"end\": 79.409, \"score\": 0.869}, {\"word\": \"中\", \"start\": 79.409, \"end\": 79.57, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 79.57, \"end\": 79.67, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"事\", \"start\": 79.67, \"end\": 79.83, \"score\": 0.983}, {\"word\": \"情\", \"start\": 79.83, \"end\": 79.85, \"score\": 0.27}]}, {\"start\": 80.939, \"end\": 104.687, \"text\": \"但是到了7月7號的時候美國財政部長貝森特他有提到他就說如果沒有跟美國來達成這個協議的話戒指關稅會反彈到4月2號川普那時候宣布的高額的關稅32%這兩個月不到的時間我想請問一下院長跟副院長這段時間裡面\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 80.939, \"end\": 81.139, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 81.139, \"end\": 81.699, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 81.699, \"end\": 81.859, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 81.859, \"end\": 83.44, \"score\": 0.924}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 83.44, \"end\": 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\"的\", \"start\": 98.445, \"end\": 101.166, \"score\": 0.939}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"3\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"%\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 101.166, \"end\": 101.346, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 101.346, \"end\": 101.466, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 101.466, \"end\": 101.606, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 101.606, \"end\": 102.327, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 102.327, \"end\": 102.447, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"想\", \"start\": 102.447, \"end\": 102.987, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 102.987, \"end\": 103.087, \"score\": 0.972}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 103.087, \"end\": 103.347, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 103.347, \"end\": 103.607, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"跟\", \"start\": 103.607, \"end\": 103.787, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"副\", \"start\": 103.787, \"end\": 103.887, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 103.887, \"end\": 104.047, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"段\", \"start\": 104.047, \"end\": 104.667, \"score\": 0.94}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"裡\"}, {\"word\": \"面\", \"start\": 104.667, \"end\": 104.687, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 108.576, \"end\": 116.549, \"text\": \"對於關稅的談判有發生了什麼樣的一個變化是不是本來有覺得一個不錯的提案那美國也樂於接受\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"對\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 108.576, \"end\": 108.937, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 108.937, \"end\": 109.357, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"談\"}, {\"word\": \"判\", \"start\": 109.357, \"end\": 109.958, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 109.958, \"end\": 110.359, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"發\"}, {\"word\": \"生\", \"start\": 110.359, 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113.284, \"end\": 113.564, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 113.564, \"end\": 113.885, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"錯\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 113.885, \"end\": 114.005, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 114.005, \"end\": 114.145, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 114.145, \"end\": 114.786, \"score\": 0.984}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 114.786, \"end\": 114.986, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 114.986, \"end\": 115.347, \"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 115.347, \"end\": 115.808, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"樂\"}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 115.808, \"end\": 116.268, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"接\", \"start\": 116.268, \"end\": 116.529, \"score\": 0.97}, {\"word\": \"受\", \"start\": 116.529, \"end\": 116.549, \"score\": 0.934}]}, {\"start\": 117.918, \"end\": 147.134, \"text\": \"但是後來呢為什麼兩個月之後呢美國財政部長覺得說那如果沒有談完那有可能會到32%雖然我們最後是到20%左右那這個是院長或是副院長要來答覆謝謝委員的確我們在4月開始啟動談判其實經過四輪的實體談判跟十多次的視訊其實每一次的談判都有所進展那都保持正向的這個發展那我們談判的對口貿易代表署跟商務部\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"但\", \"start\": 117.918, \"end\": 118.078, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 118.078, \"end\": 118.378, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 118.378, \"end\": 118.558, \"score\": 0.885}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 118.558, \"end\": 118.819, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 118.819, \"end\": 119.259, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 119.259, \"end\": 119.479, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 119.479, \"end\": 119.619, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 119.619, \"end\": 119.799, \"score\": 0.887}, {\"word\": \"呢\", \"start\": 119.799, \"end\": 120.139, \"score\": 0.955}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 120.139, \"end\": 120.66, \"score\": 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\"text\": \"所以說當時候美國的財政部長說這個非常好的提案裡面來平衡貿易逆差但是這些提案的是一個範疇那雙方談判會變動因為我們面對是個非傳統的一個經貿談判那美方也會每一次他都會提出他的要求那尤其他跟各國在談所以各國的談判的條件也會影響美方的要求的期待跟談判的進程\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 234.137, \"end\": 234.877, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 234.877, \"end\": 235.257, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"候\", \"start\": 235.257, \"end\": 235.518, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"美\", \"start\": 235.518, \"end\": 235.798, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"國\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 235.798, \"end\": 236.058, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"政\", \"start\": 236.058, \"end\": 236.198, \"score\": 0.821}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 236.198, \"end\": 237.138, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"非\", \"start\": 237.138, \"end\": 237.298, \"score\": 0.954}, {\"word\": \"常\", \"start\": 237.298, \"end\": 237.478, \"score\": 0.907}, 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972.982, \"end\": 973.002, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,601 --> 00:00:25,523\n副院長我們請我們的卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長還有鄭副院長嗎兩位請背謝謝李委員好\n\n2\n00:00:26,851 --> 00:00:53,406\n院長好副院長好辛苦了今天也是對於關稅的問題請教院長跟副院長我想請教一下在今年5月14號的時候美國的財政部長他有提到就是說我們跟台灣對於關稅的談判台灣有一個非常好的一個提案這是在5月14號的時候那時候\n\n3\n00:00:54,554 --> 00:01:19,850\n早出來的時候大家覺得說台灣不錯因為從4月初美國提出關稅之後32%大家嚇得心驚膽跳結果到5月10幾號的時候美國財政部長說台灣有提出一個很不錯的提案我們就相信說我們的行政團隊一定跟美國提出了一些很不錯的一些deal有可能關稅搞不好在5月中下去就有可能確定了這是5月中的事情\n\n4\n00:01:20,939 --> 00:01:44,687\n但是到了7月7號的時候美國財政部長貝森特他有提到他就說如果沒有跟美國來達成這個協議的話戒指關稅會反彈到4月2號川普那時候宣布的高額的關稅32%這兩個月不到的時間我想請問一下院長跟副院長這段時間裡面\n\n5\n00:01:48,576 --> 00:01:56,549\n對於關稅的談判有發生了什麼樣的一個變化是不是本來有覺得一個不錯的提案那美國也樂於接受\n\n6\n00:01:57,918 --> 00:02:27,134\n但是後來呢為什麼兩個月之後呢美國財政部長覺得說那如果沒有談完那有可能會到32%雖然我們最後是到20%左右那這個是院長或是副院長要來答覆謝謝委員的確我們在4月開始啟動談判其實經過四輪的實體談判跟十多次的視訊其實每一次的談判都有所進展那都保持正向的這個發展那我們談判的對口貿易代表署跟商務部\n\n7\n00:02:27,874 --> 00:02:55,851\n我們雙方都有進展對方也有速度表達其實我們有達到一定程度的共識不過您所說的在接近期限之前美方當時曾經因為本來是7月9號到期延到7月底希望在7月底之前大家也都希望各國都希望跟美國達成共識我方也希望跟美國達成deal但是最後的確雙方沒有能夠達成deal\n\n8\n00:02:56,656 --> 00:03:18,303\n也清楚的告訴我們其實是因為台灣的逆差結構裡面占有九成是來自半導體ICT而這部分連動的美國232正在調查中關稅政策未定那有些病壇對等跟232病壇的國家像日韓歐盟他們涉及的232項目有汽車有鋼等等\n\n9\n00:03:18,863 --> 00:03:31,392\n那這些相對的它的稅率是定的相對他們的項目比較單純台灣的聚焦在半導體跟ICT所以我們在五月初那時候談判的時候政府有把這個半導體還有我們資中訊產品一起納進來談所以那時候他講說這個\n\n10\n00:03:33,874 --> 00:03:52,276\n有非常好的提案是沒有包括這裡面嗎在這個提案裡面其實主要是我們有提出希望能夠平衡貿易逆差因為像大家都了解對等關稅談判的起源是因為貿易逆差台灣是美國第六大的逆差國所以我們也希望透過關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及採購等等相關的\n\n11\n00:03:54,137 --> 00:04:19,043\n所以說當時候美國的財政部長說這個非常好的提案裡面來平衡貿易逆差但是這些提案的是一個範疇那雙方談判會變動因為我們面對是個非傳統的一個經貿談判那美方也會每一次他都會提出他的要求那尤其他跟各國在談所以各國的談判的條件也會影響美方的要求的期待跟談判的進程\n\n12\n00:04:19,503 --> 00:04:44,434\n所以它是一個互相影響變動的進行過程當中來前進但是我必須要跟委員報告是說其實台美的談判是有階段性的進展因此從32來調整成20但是的確我們在逆差結構中涉及有一部分是屬於232調查的項目而在8月1號前當時美國的政策還未定所以台美必須要就這個供應鏈合作跟232的項目並談一起談\n\n13\n00:04:46,835 --> 00:05:01,031\n那其他涉及232項目像日韓歐盟他們相對的項目有的是比較明確的已經有相關的稅率所以他們也是把對等跟232並談那有取得一定的成果所以我方後續\n\n14\n00:05:01,792 --> 00:05:19,410\n的目標就是對等跟232關稅一併談然後我們也要在最終觸及最終稅率的談判的時候來爭取不疊加那這三個目標我們已經都在最近的三次視訊會議當中有提出我方的要求跟表達那副院長最近還要再去美國嗎\n\n15\n00:05:20,607 --> 00:05:33,657\n我們大概最近8月1號以後有經過了三次視訊那我上午有提到我們最近一次就是上個禮拜五那我想我們當然任何可能性有利於談判的安排我們都會來積極努力\n\n16\n00:05:34,245 --> 00:06:03,345\n當然最終就是要朝著總結會議來所以接下來的這個關稅確定之前還會再去美國嗎還是用視訊就可以了我想應該是最後總結會議也一定應該要在美國來進行那我們也有表達我們隨時都可以去我知道院長給你一個空白的這個價單你隨時都可以去美國有需要就隨時去美國我們全力的支持團辦團隊積極的把我們的方案準備好隨時在雙方那個時間都能夠\n\n17\n00:06:04,665 --> 00:06:24,698\n談妥的時候我們就主動能夠去到美國跟他們談判所以我想我們就最後談判的進程我們每一次跟美方視訊都有就下一步以及後續的時程也要一併的持續的進行磋商那因為美方達成協議的方式也有很多那我們也希望說就這個部分來一併討論\n\n18\n00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:36,787\n同樣在8月中的時候這個一樣是美國財政部長被深特他提到關稅應如榮兵他預估在10月底之前完成多數的談判\n\n19\n00:06:38,186 --> 00:07:03,642\n他說這個像關稅跟冰塊一樣有可能融化最後呢有可能是降低甚至取消那我們有辦法有達到這個機會嗎我想這個Beson部長他的這個發言裡面很重要有一個時辰的一個訊息就是美方有提到說希望還沒有達成協議的國家在10月底前那我也想跟委員報告就是說7月31號美國公布的行政命令裡面\n\n20\n00:07:04,422 --> 00:07:27,933\n台灣是列在NX-1附入一的國家那裡面特別提到說以同意或接近與美國完成協議與安全貿易與安全協議在後續與美國完成協議並經總統發布命令載明協議條件之前適用現在這個稅率所以也就是說最後我們必須要談判然後達成協議然後再經由雙方公佈協議所達成的這個條件\n\n21\n00:07:29,827 --> 00:07:52,880\n那這樣就是可以完成這樣的談判來決定這個最終的稅率所以目前台灣就是處於一個上需要我們接近完成協議但需要來談後續完成協議並來發布相關協議的條件那你們有沒有預估在10月底或是更早譬如說現在已經快8月下旬了有沒有可能在9月的時候就完成這個關稅談判我想美方財政部長所說的是一個他們general的形成\n\n22\n00:07:53,560 --> 00:08:14,069\n當然以我方的看法我們應該是要越快越好有可能在這個期限之前九月就達成關稅的這個協定嗎這都是我們努力的目標因為我們知道有些產業他受到的衝擊比較大我想每一天對他們都是辛苦的那是有機會降到20%以下\n\n23\n00:08:15,630 --> 00:08:42,105\n我們現在20%是我看院長有在點頭啊努力啊我們的目標當然就是要努力我也知道啊要努力到20%那我是說就你們現在談判的這個這個跟對方的這樣子談判的這個過程來講20%以下有沒有機會其實在7月31號我們在最後希望達成協議的過程當中跟美方也是有所溝通那也就是因為台灣有關於相關供應鏈的合作跟232要並談\n\n24\n00:08:43,038 --> 00:09:06,077\n所以我們希望後續對等232並談我們一併希望把對等關稅再降我們也同時爭取232的優惠目前大概我們的工具機模具塑膠製品還有電子材料這一個受到關稅影響比較大因為我們主要競爭對手不論是韓國或是說德國甚至日本越南墨西哥等等他們有的關稅跟我們一樣但是在\n\n25\n00:09:06,818 --> 00:09:35,060\n工具機的方面的話我們明顯是受到影響我們的這個累加的關稅比起來就是會比主要競爭對手還要多那我現在主要在談因為剛有提到這個半導體這232的條款的這部分那目前當然因為台積電還有我們半導體有到美國去設廠我們就是關稅就是零那我想請問一下那接下來的這個談判過程當中我相信美國他們也可能需要或是說希望台灣的除了這一個\n\n26\n00:09:36,180 --> 00:10:05,029\n我們的半導體到美國去投資之外因為半導體它是整個產業鏈不是只有半導體還有上游中游下游在談判的過程當中有沒有可能就是說因為接下來因為它是先從半導體移到美國去設廠然後就給你零關稅接下來有可能會不會整個上中下游的產業鏈因為半導體已經過去了也會跟著一起過去美國去做投資如果這部分的話台灣有什麼樣的營運的一個方向\n\n27\n00:10:05,925 --> 00:10:23,327\n我想我們近期也積極的跟高科技產業界來座談那除了半導體產業也包括半導體上游材料設備廠物那以及這個下游AIServer跟以及相關EMS等產業來了解我國的這個企業目前在美投資佈局的情形\n\n28\n00:10:23,817 --> 00:10:47,419\n因為我們要立即於我們的產業佈局的現況以及他們未來的期待你現在不過去投資的話那未來他們就是給你關稅嘛對不對這個部分就是在我們這幾次的談判當中我們也努力要去了解美方在232關稅可能的走向那目前因為看到揭露的資訊相對有限所以我們有持續性的在了解他們可能的\n\n29\n00:10:48,519 --> 00:11:11,324\n因為談判過程當中就是像譬如說台積電去設廠了那就關稅就零那他當然我認為啦他希望說不是只有半導體過去他可能希望說整個產業鏈都能夠到美國去做投資那是跟委員報告在232調查的項目裡面除了半導體還有半導體設備那麼以及半導體衍生品那其實當時在對等關稅這個公布的時候\n\n30\n00:11:14,145 --> 00:11:18,452\n也有提到除了半導體半導體設備跟這個衍生品其實還有像\n\n31\n00:11:20,068 --> 00:11:47,574\n關鍵礦物藥品木材等等我的意思就是台灣是所以我們自動訊產業半導體這麼發達因為我們有產業鏈在台灣不論你是在竹科中科南科這個產業鏈是美國現在沒辦法去複製的但是如果萬一我們的半導體它要求我們去設廠那是不是未來有可能有可能說我們這些上中下游有可能也過去但是把這個當成是投資美國的一部分\n\n32\n00:11:48,684 --> 00:11:55,238\n那這樣子會不會讓美國覺得說那這些也到去美國去投資那在跟他們講關稅談判的時候有沒有更多的這個利基點在經濟部來談一下財力的狀況\n\n33\n00:11:59,078 --> 00:12:24,605\n跟委員報告基本上就是說整個AI產業鏈它是從上游到下游其實說AI晶片以外最重要的是伺服器因為我們台美之間最大的一個順差的來源大概就是伺服器還有顯示卡所以這個部分確實是整個如果要建構AI產業鏈的話確實是可能上中下游可能這些產業可能都有需要\n\n34\n00:12:26,206 --> 00:12:53,263\n會到美國去做一些投資當然現在產業工會他們也在有這樣的一些行動做一些準備所以我是回到4月初賴總統他所講的投資台灣投資美國對就是說我們要加碼投資美國形成台灣加一就是說藉由投資美國也帶動台灣的產業再次發展就是說\n\n35\n00:12:54,904 --> 00:13:18,353\n院長那時候有講過就是說美國要再次強大也讓台灣再次強大所以我剛才問說如果我們這些產業也到美國去投資的話那第一個他可能會要求因為不論是美國是韓國是日本他都要求你去做投資不論是日本的5500億或是說這個韓國3500億我相信他也會要求我們去做一些投資\n\n36\n00:13:19,774 --> 00:13:33,472\n這些投資就是我剛所講的是包含那些產業的投資不曉得是不是在這次的談判裡面也能夠當成是我們過去投資然後用這東西來降低關稅的一個談判的籌碼我跟委員講幾個原則第一個\n\n37\n00:13:37,097 --> 00:13:59,936\n產業耕留台灣尤其是高科技產業必須維持台灣現在關鍵領先地位這個政策政府跟民間業者都有共識所以一定要耕留台灣全球佈局以台灣加一的方式去同時最高科技領先在台灣地位研發在台灣這個原則都不會改變至於細節上我們跟美國怎麼談他希望我們怎麼去做投資\n\n38\n00:14:00,516 --> 00:14:25,549\n我想美國的確有他振興製造業這樣的一個目標尤其是AI跟這個半導體相關未來產業供應鏈不過我想談判雙方從台灣的立場我們希望談的是供應鏈的合作然後也是要有利於我國產業的一個國際的佈局所以在這樣的一個原則底下我們來跟美方來討論這個供應鏈的合作跟投資的\n\n39\n00:14:26,729 --> 00:14:42,984\n這個佈局因為過去雙方的產業高度互補他們研發創新我們有製造的優勢那我們的產業也已經到了這個正在擴大國際佈局的階段所以未來我們台灣加一站美國如何擴大投資佈局但同時達到雙方互利互補雙贏\n\n40\n00:14:44,625 --> 00:15:13,495\n的一個供應鏈的合作這是我們談判的目標也在此這樣的一個共同的戰略目標底下能夠來爭取更好的這個稅率對等稅率以及232優惠好謝謝副院長那我接下來這一題我請這個總裁央行總裁先過來一下因為現在除了關稅之外還有匯率那所以呢工具機的業者他就說是不是建議政府呢採取這個防禦性的匯率的這個調控這是一個那另外就是說\n\n41\n00:15:16,939 --> 00:15:29,078\n經濟學者普遍預期下半年度台灣的經濟成長可能會趨緩所以亞洲的主要一些銀行分別會採取降息的手段請問我們的央行會採取降息的手段嗎\n\n42\n00:15:43,217 --> 00:16:10,276\n對我知道那你這個預期就是說如果是上半年是不錯那下半年那如果說來到這種精神掌力都好不過的情況之下向期的結尾可能就不大了\n\n43\n00:16:11,940 --> 00:16:13,002\n好謝謝我們時間到謝謝李委員謝謝院長\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5601\t25523\t副院長 我們請我們的卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長還有鄭副院長嗎兩位請背謝謝李委員好\n26851\t53406\t院長好 副院長好 辛苦了今天也是對於關稅的問題請教院長跟副院長我想請教一下在今年5月14號的時候美國的財政部長他有提到就是說我們跟台灣對於關稅的談判台灣有一個非常好的一個提案這是在5月14號的時候那時候\n54554\t79850\t早出來的時候大家覺得說台灣不錯因為從4月初美國提出關稅之後32%大家嚇得心驚膽跳結果到5月10幾號的時候美國財政部長說台灣有提出一個很不錯的提案我們就相信說我們的行政團隊一定跟美國提出了一些很不錯的一些deal有可能關稅搞不好在5月中下去就有可能確定了這是5月中的事情\n80939\t104687\t但是到了7月7號的時候美國財政部長貝森特他有提到他就說如果沒有跟美國來達成這個協議的話戒指關稅會反彈到4月2號川普那時候宣布的高額的關稅32%這兩個月不到的時間我想請問一下院長跟副院長這段時間裡面\n108576\t116549\t對於關稅的談判有發生了什麼樣的一個變化是不是本來有覺得一個不錯的提案那美國也樂於接受\n117918\t147134\t但是後來呢為什麼兩個月之後呢美國財政部長覺得說那如果沒有談完那有可能會到32%雖然我們最後是到20%左右那這個是院長或是副院長要來答覆謝謝委員的確我們在4月開始啟動談判其實經過四輪的實體談判跟十多次的視訊其實每一次的談判都有所進展那都保持正向的這個發展那我們談判的對口貿易代表署跟商務部\n147874\t175851\t我們雙方都有進展對方也有速度表達其實我們有達到一定程度的共識不過您所說的在接近期限之前美方當時曾經因為本來是7月9號到期延到7月底希望在7月底之前大家也都希望各國都希望跟美國達成共識我方也希望跟美國達成deal但是最後的確雙方沒有能夠達成deal\n176656\t198303\t也清楚的告訴我們其實是因為台灣的逆差結構裡面占有九成是來自半導體ICT而這部分連動的美國232正在調查中關稅政策未定那有些病壇對等跟232病壇的國家像日韓 歐盟他們涉及的232項目有汽車 有鋼等等\n198863\t211392\t那這些相對的它的稅率是定的相對他們的項目比較單純台灣的聚焦在半導體跟ICT所以我們在五月初那時候談判的時候政府有把這個半導體還有我們資中訊產品一起納進來談所以那時候他講說這個\n213874\t232276\t有非常好的提案是沒有包括這裡面嗎在這個提案裡面其實主要是我們有提出希望能夠平衡貿易逆差因為像大家都了解對等關稅談判的起源是因為貿易逆差台灣是美國第六大的逆差國所以我們也希望透過關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及採購等等相關的\n234137\t259043\t所以說當時候美國的財政部長說這個非常好的提案裡面來平衡貿易逆差但是這些提案的是一個範疇那雙方談判會變動因為我們面對是個非傳統的一個經貿談判那美方也會每一次他都會提出他的要求那尤其他跟各國在談所以各國的談判的條件也會影響美方的要求的期待跟談判的進程\n259503\t284434\t所以它是一個互相影響變動的進行過程當中來前進但是我必須要跟委員報告是說其實台美的談判是有階段性的進展因此從32來調整成20但是的確我們在逆差結構中涉及有一部分是屬於232調查的項目而在8月1號前當時美國的政策還未定所以台美必須要就這個供應鏈合作跟232的項目並談 一起談\n286835\t301031\t那其他涉及232項目像日韓歐盟他們相對的項目有的是比較明確的已經有相關的稅率所以他們也是把對等跟232並談那有取得一定的成果所以我方後續\n301792\t319410\t的目標就是對等跟232關稅一併談然後我們也要在最終觸及最終稅率的談判的時候來爭取不疊加那這三個目標我們已經都在最近的三次視訊會議當中有提出我方的要求跟表達那副院長最近還要再去美國嗎\n320607\t333657\t我們大概最近8月1號以後有經過了三次視訊那我上午有提到我們最近一次就是上個禮拜五那我想我們當然任何可能性有利於談判的安排我們都會來積極努力\n334245\t363345\t當然最終就是要朝著總結會議來所以接下來的這個關稅確定之前還會再去美國嗎還是用視訊就可以了我想應該是最後總結會議也一定應該要在美國來進行那我們也有表達我們隨時都可以去我知道院長給你一個空白的這個價單你隨時都可以去美國有需要就隨時去美國我們全力的支持團辦團隊積極的把我們的方案準備好隨時在雙方那個時間都能夠\n364665\t384698\t談妥的時候我們就主動能夠去到美國跟他們談判所以我想我們就最後談判的進程我們每一次跟美方視訊都有就下一步以及後續的時程也要一併的持續的進行磋商那因為美方達成協議的方式也有很多那我們也希望說就這個部分來一併討論\n386279\t396787\t同樣在8月中的時候這個一樣是美國財政部長被深特他提到關稅應如榮兵他預估在10月底之前完成多數的談判\n398186\t423642\t他說這個像關稅跟冰塊一樣有可能融化最後呢有可能是降低甚至取消那我們有辦法有達到這個機會嗎我想這個Beson部長他的這個發言裡面很重要有一個時辰的一個訊息就是美方有提到說希望還沒有達成協議的國家在10月底前那我也想跟委員報告就是說7月31號美國公布的行政命令裡面\n424422\t447933\t台灣是列在NX-1附入一的國家那裡面特別提到說以同意或接近與美國完成協議與安全貿易與安全協議在後續與美國完成協議並經總統發布命令載明協議條件之前適用現在這個稅率所以也就是說最後我們必須要談判然後達成協議然後再經由雙方公佈協議所達成的這個條件\n449827\t472880\t那這樣就是可以完成這樣的談判來決定這個最終的稅率所以目前台灣就是處於一個上需要我們接近完成協議但需要來談後續完成協議並來發布相關協議的條件那你們有沒有預估在10月底或是更早譬如說現在已經快8月下旬了有沒有可能在9月的時候就完成這個關稅談判我想美方財政部長所說的是一個他們general的形成\n473560\t494069\t當然以我方的看法我們應該是要越快越好有可能在這個期限之前九月就達成關稅的這個協定嗎這都是我們努力的目標因為我們知道有些產業他受到的衝擊比較大我想每一天對他們都是辛苦的那是有機會降到20%以下\n495630\t522105\t我們現在20%是我看院長有在點頭啊努力啊我們的目標當然就是要努力我也知道啊 要努力到20%那我是說就你們現在談判的這個這個跟對方的這樣子談判的這個過程來講20%以下有沒有機會其實在7月31號我們在最後希望達成協議的過程當中跟美方也是有所溝通那也就是因為台灣有關於相關供應鏈的合作跟232要並談\n523038\t546077\t所以我們希望後續對等232並談我們一併希望把對等關稅再降我們也同時爭取232的優惠目前大概我們的工具機模具 塑膠製品還有電子材料這一個受到關稅影響比較大因為我們主要競爭對手不論是韓國或是說德國甚至日本 越南 墨西哥等等他們有的關稅跟我們一樣但是在\n546818\t575060\t工具機的方面的話我們明顯是受到影響我們的這個累加的關稅比起來就是會比主要競爭對手還要多那我現在主要在談因為剛有提到這個半導體這232的條款的這部分那目前當然因為台積電還有我們半導體有到美國去設廠我們就是關稅就是零那我想請問一下那接下來的這個談判過程當中我相信美國他們也可能需要或是說希望台灣的除了這一個\n576180\t605029\t我們的半導體到美國去投資之外因為半導體它是整個產業鏈不是只有半導體還有上游中游下游在談判的過程當中有沒有可能就是說因為接下來因為它是先從半導體移到美國去設廠然後就給你零關稅接下來有可能會不會整個上中下游的產業鏈因為半導體已經過去了也會跟著一起過去美國去做投資如果這部分的話台灣有什麼樣的營運的一個方向\n605925\t623327\t我想我們近期也積極的跟高科技產業界來座談那除了半導體產業也包括半導體上游材料設備廠物那以及這個下游AI Server跟以及相關EMS等產業來了解我國的這個企業目前在美投資佈局的情形\n623817\t647419\t因為我們要立即於我們的產業佈局的現況以及他們未來的期待你現在不過去投資的話那未來他們就是給你關稅嘛對不對這個部分就是在我們這幾次的談判當中我們也努力要去了解美方在232關稅可能的走向那目前因為看到揭露的資訊相對有限所以我們有持續性的在了解他們可能的\n648519\t671324\t因為談判過程當中就是像譬如說台積電去設廠了那就關稅就零那他當然我認為啦他希望說不是只有半導體過去他可能希望說整個產業鏈都能夠到美國去做投資那是跟委員報告在232調查的項目裡面除了半導體還有半導體設備那麼以及半導體衍生品那其實當時在對等關稅這個公布的時候\n674145\t678452\t也有提到除了半導體半導體設備跟這個衍生品其實還有像\n680068\t707574\t關鍵礦物 藥品 木材等等我的意思就是台灣是所以我們自動訊產業半導體這麼發達因為我們有產業鏈在台灣不論你是在竹科 中科 南科這個產業鏈是美國現在沒辦法去複製的但是如果萬一我們的半導體它要求我們去設廠那是不是未來有可能有可能說我們這些上中下游有可能也過去但是把這個當成是投資美國的一部分\n708684\t715238\t那這樣子會不會讓美國覺得說那這些也到去美國去投資那在跟他們講關稅談判的時候有沒有更多的這個利基點在經濟部來談一下財力的狀況\n719078\t744605\t跟委員報告基本上就是說整個AI產業鏈它是從上游到下游其實說AI晶片以外最重要的是伺服器因為我們台美之間最大的一個順差的來源大概就是伺服器還有顯示卡所以這個部分確實是整個如果要建構AI產業鏈的話確實是可能上中下游可能這些產業可能都有需要\n746206\t773263\t會到美國去做一些投資當然現在產業工會他們也在有這樣的一些行動做一些準備所以我是回到4月初賴總統他所講的投資台灣投資美國對就是說我們要加碼投資美國形成台灣加一就是說藉由投資美國也帶動台灣的產業再次發展就是說\n774904\t798353\t院長那時候有講過就是說美國要再次強大也讓台灣再次強大所以我剛才問說如果我們這些產業也到美國去投資的話那第一個他可能會要求因為不論是美國是韓國是日本他都要求你去做投資不論是日本的5500億或是說這個韓國3500億我相信他也會要求我們去做一些投資\n799774\t813472\t這些投資就是我剛所講的是包含那些產業的投資不曉得是不是在這次的談判裡面也能夠當成是我們過去投資然後用這東西來降低關稅的一個談判的籌碼我跟委員講幾個原則第一個\n817097\t839936\t產業耕留台灣尤其是高科技產業必須維持台灣現在關鍵領先地位這個政策政府跟民間業者都有共識所以一定要耕留台灣全球佈局以台灣加一的方式去同時最高科技領先在台灣地位研發在台灣這個原則都不會改變至於細節上我們跟美國怎麼談他希望我們怎麼去做投資\n840516\t865549\t我想美國的確有他振興製造業這樣的一個目標尤其是AI跟這個半導體相關未來產業供應鏈不過我想談判雙方從台灣的立場我們希望談的是供應鏈的合作然後也是要有利於我國產業的一個國際的佈局所以在這樣的一個原則底下我們來跟美方來討論這個供應鏈的合作跟投資的\n866729\t882984\t這個佈局因為過去雙方的產業高度互補他們研發創新我們有製造的優勢那我們的產業也已經到了這個正在擴大國際佈局的階段所以未來我們台灣加一站美國如何擴大投資佈局但同時達到雙方互利互補雙贏\n884625\t913495\t的一個供應鏈的合作這是我們談判的目標也在此這樣的一個共同的戰略目標底下能夠來爭取更好的這個稅率對等稅率以及232優惠好謝謝副院長那我接下來這一題我請這個總裁央行總裁先過來一下因為現在除了關稅之外還有匯率那所以呢工具機的業者他就說是不是建議政府呢採取這個防禦性的匯率的這個調控這是一個那另外就是說\n916939\t929078\t經濟學者普遍預期下半年度台灣的經濟成長可能會趨緩所以亞洲的主要一些銀行分別會採取降息的手段請問我們的央行會採取降息的手段嗎\n943217\t970276\t對我知道那你這個預期就是說如果是上半年是不錯那下半年那如果說來到這種精神掌力都好不過的情況之下向期的結尾可能就不大了\n971940\t973002\t好 謝謝 我們時間到謝謝李委員 謝謝院長\n","txt":"副院長 我們請我們的卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長還有鄭副院長嗎兩位請背謝謝李委員好\n院長好 副院長好 辛苦了今天也是對於關稅的問題請教院長跟副院長我想請教一下在今年5月14號的時候美國的財政部長他有提到就是說我們跟台灣對於關稅的談判台灣有一個非常好的一個提案這是在5月14號的時候那時候\n早出來的時候大家覺得說台灣不錯因為從4月初美國提出關稅之後32%大家嚇得心驚膽跳結果到5月10幾號的時候美國財政部長說台灣有提出一個很不錯的提案我們就相信說我們的行政團隊一定跟美國提出了一些很不錯的一些deal有可能關稅搞不好在5月中下去就有可能確定了這是5月中的事情\n但是到了7月7號的時候美國財政部長貝森特他有提到他就說如果沒有跟美國來達成這個協議的話戒指關稅會反彈到4月2號川普那時候宣布的高額的關稅32%這兩個月不到的時間我想請問一下院長跟副院長這段時間裡面\n對於關稅的談判有發生了什麼樣的一個變化是不是本來有覺得一個不錯的提案那美國也樂於接受\n但是後來呢為什麼兩個月之後呢美國財政部長覺得說那如果沒有談完那有可能會到32%雖然我們最後是到20%左右那這個是院長或是副院長要來答覆謝謝委員的確我們在4月開始啟動談判其實經過四輪的實體談判跟十多次的視訊其實每一次的談判都有所進展那都保持正向的這個發展那我們談判的對口貿易代表署跟商務部\n我們雙方都有進展對方也有速度表達其實我們有達到一定程度的共識不過您所說的在接近期限之前美方當時曾經因為本來是7月9號到期延到7月底希望在7月底之前大家也都希望各國都希望跟美國達成共識我方也希望跟美國達成deal但是最後的確雙方沒有能夠達成deal\n也清楚的告訴我們其實是因為台灣的逆差結構裡面占有九成是來自半導體ICT而這部分連動的美國232正在調查中關稅政策未定那有些病壇對等跟232病壇的國家像日韓 歐盟他們涉及的232項目有汽車 有鋼等等\n那這些相對的它的稅率是定的相對他們的項目比較單純台灣的聚焦在半導體跟ICT所以我們在五月初那時候談判的時候政府有把這個半導體還有我們資中訊產品一起納進來談所以那時候他講說這個\n有非常好的提案是沒有包括這裡面嗎在這個提案裡面其實主要是我們有提出希望能夠平衡貿易逆差因為像大家都了解對等關稅談判的起源是因為貿易逆差台灣是美國第六大的逆差國所以我們也希望透過關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及採購等等相關的\n所以說當時候美國的財政部長說這個非常好的提案裡面來平衡貿易逆差但是這些提案的是一個範疇那雙方談判會變動因為我們面對是個非傳統的一個經貿談判那美方也會每一次他都會提出他的要求那尤其他跟各國在談所以各國的談判的條件也會影響美方的要求的期待跟談判的進程\n所以它是一個互相影響變動的進行過程當中來前進但是我必須要跟委員報告是說其實台美的談判是有階段性的進展因此從32來調整成20但是的確我們在逆差結構中涉及有一部分是屬於232調查的項目而在8月1號前當時美國的政策還未定所以台美必須要就這個供應鏈合作跟232的項目並談 一起談\n那其他涉及232項目像日韓歐盟他們相對的項目有的是比較明確的已經有相關的稅率所以他們也是把對等跟232並談那有取得一定的成果所以我方後續\n的目標就是對等跟232關稅一併談然後我們也要在最終觸及最終稅率的談判的時候來爭取不疊加那這三個目標我們已經都在最近的三次視訊會議當中有提出我方的要求跟表達那副院長最近還要再去美國嗎\n我們大概最近8月1號以後有經過了三次視訊那我上午有提到我們最近一次就是上個禮拜五那我想我們當然任何可能性有利於談判的安排我們都會來積極努力\n當然最終就是要朝著總結會議來所以接下來的這個關稅確定之前還會再去美國嗎還是用視訊就可以了我想應該是最後總結會議也一定應該要在美國來進行那我們也有表達我們隨時都可以去我知道院長給你一個空白的這個價單你隨時都可以去美國有需要就隨時去美國我們全力的支持團辦團隊積極的把我們的方案準備好隨時在雙方那個時間都能夠\n談妥的時候我們就主動能夠去到美國跟他們談判所以我想我們就最後談判的進程我們每一次跟美方視訊都有就下一步以及後續的時程也要一併的持續的進行磋商那因為美方達成協議的方式也有很多那我們也希望說就這個部分來一併討論\n同樣在8月中的時候這個一樣是美國財政部長被深特他提到關稅應如榮兵他預估在10月底之前完成多數的談判\n他說這個像關稅跟冰塊一樣有可能融化最後呢有可能是降低甚至取消那我們有辦法有達到這個機會嗎我想這個Beson部長他的這個發言裡面很重要有一個時辰的一個訊息就是美方有提到說希望還沒有達成協議的國家在10月底前那我也想跟委員報告就是說7月31號美國公布的行政命令裡面\n台灣是列在NX-1附入一的國家那裡面特別提到說以同意或接近與美國完成協議與安全貿易與安全協議在後續與美國完成協議並經總統發布命令載明協議條件之前適用現在這個稅率所以也就是說最後我們必須要談判然後達成協議然後再經由雙方公佈協議所達成的這個條件\n那這樣就是可以完成這樣的談判來決定這個最終的稅率所以目前台灣就是處於一個上需要我們接近完成協議但需要來談後續完成協議並來發布相關協議的條件那你們有沒有預估在10月底或是更早譬如說現在已經快8月下旬了有沒有可能在9月的時候就完成這個關稅談判我想美方財政部長所說的是一個他們general的形成\n當然以我方的看法我們應該是要越快越好有可能在這個期限之前九月就達成關稅的這個協定嗎這都是我們努力的目標因為我們知道有些產業他受到的衝擊比較大我想每一天對他們都是辛苦的那是有機會降到20%以下\n我們現在20%是我看院長有在點頭啊努力啊我們的目標當然就是要努力我也知道啊 要努力到20%那我是說就你們現在談判的這個這個跟對方的這樣子談判的這個過程來講20%以下有沒有機會其實在7月31號我們在最後希望達成協議的過程當中跟美方也是有所溝通那也就是因為台灣有關於相關供應鏈的合作跟232要並談\n所以我們希望後續對等232並談我們一併希望把對等關稅再降我們也同時爭取232的優惠目前大概我們的工具機模具 塑膠製品還有電子材料這一個受到關稅影響比較大因為我們主要競爭對手不論是韓國或是說德國甚至日本 越南 墨西哥等等他們有的關稅跟我們一樣但是在\n工具機的方面的話我們明顯是受到影響我們的這個累加的關稅比起來就是會比主要競爭對手還要多那我現在主要在談因為剛有提到這個半導體這232的條款的這部分那目前當然因為台積電還有我們半導體有到美國去設廠我們就是關稅就是零那我想請問一下那接下來的這個談判過程當中我相信美國他們也可能需要或是說希望台灣的除了這一個\n我們的半導體到美國去投資之外因為半導體它是整個產業鏈不是只有半導體還有上游中游下游在談判的過程當中有沒有可能就是說因為接下來因為它是先從半導體移到美國去設廠然後就給你零關稅接下來有可能會不會整個上中下游的產業鏈因為半導體已經過去了也會跟著一起過去美國去做投資如果這部分的話台灣有什麼樣的營運的一個方向\n我想我們近期也積極的跟高科技產業界來座談那除了半導體產業也包括半導體上游材料設備廠物那以及這個下游AI Server跟以及相關EMS等產業來了解我國的這個企業目前在美投資佈局的情形\n因為我們要立即於我們的產業佈局的現況以及他們未來的期待你現在不過去投資的話那未來他們就是給你關稅嘛對不對這個部分就是在我們這幾次的談判當中我們也努力要去了解美方在232關稅可能的走向那目前因為看到揭露的資訊相對有限所以我們有持續性的在了解他們可能的\n因為談判過程當中就是像譬如說台積電去設廠了那就關稅就零那他當然我認為啦他希望說不是只有半導體過去他可能希望說整個產業鏈都能夠到美國去做投資那是跟委員報告在232調查的項目裡面除了半導體還有半導體設備那麼以及半導體衍生品那其實當時在對等關稅這個公布的時候\n也有提到除了半導體半導體設備跟這個衍生品其實還有像\n關鍵礦物 藥品 木材等等我的意思就是台灣是所以我們自動訊產業半導體這麼發達因為我們有產業鏈在台灣不論你是在竹科 中科 南科這個產業鏈是美國現在沒辦法去複製的但是如果萬一我們的半導體它要求我們去設廠那是不是未來有可能有可能說我們這些上中下游有可能也過去但是把這個當成是投資美國的一部分\n那這樣子會不會讓美國覺得說那這些也到去美國去投資那在跟他們講關稅談判的時候有沒有更多的這個利基點在經濟部來談一下財力的狀況\n跟委員報告基本上就是說整個AI產業鏈它是從上游到下游其實說AI晶片以外最重要的是伺服器因為我們台美之間最大的一個順差的來源大概就是伺服器還有顯示卡所以這個部分確實是整個如果要建構AI產業鏈的話確實是可能上中下游可能這些產業可能都有需要\n會到美國去做一些投資當然現在產業工會他們也在有這樣的一些行動做一些準備所以我是回到4月初賴總統他所講的投資台灣投資美國對就是說我們要加碼投資美國形成台灣加一就是說藉由投資美國也帶動台灣的產業再次發展就是說\n院長那時候有講過就是說美國要再次強大也讓台灣再次強大所以我剛才問說如果我們這些產業也到美國去投資的話那第一個他可能會要求因為不論是美國是韓國是日本他都要求你去做投資不論是日本的5500億或是說這個韓國3500億我相信他也會要求我們去做一些投資\n這些投資就是我剛所講的是包含那些產業的投資不曉得是不是在這次的談判裡面也能夠當成是我們過去投資然後用這東西來降低關稅的一個談判的籌碼我跟委員講幾個原則第一個\n產業耕留台灣尤其是高科技產業必須維持台灣現在關鍵領先地位這個政策政府跟民間業者都有共識所以一定要耕留台灣全球佈局以台灣加一的方式去同時最高科技領先在台灣地位研發在台灣這個原則都不會改變至於細節上我們跟美國怎麼談他希望我們怎麼去做投資\n我想美國的確有他振興製造業這樣的一個目標尤其是AI跟這個半導體相關未來產業供應鏈不過我想談判雙方從台灣的立場我們希望談的是供應鏈的合作然後也是要有利於我國產業的一個國際的佈局所以在這樣的一個原則底下我們來跟美方來討論這個供應鏈的合作跟投資的\n這個佈局因為過去雙方的產業高度互補他們研發創新我們有製造的優勢那我們的產業也已經到了這個正在擴大國際佈局的階段所以未來我們台灣加一站美國如何擴大投資佈局但同時達到雙方互利互補雙贏\n的一個供應鏈的合作這是我們談判的目標也在此這樣的一個共同的戰略目標底下能夠來爭取更好的這個稅率對等稅率以及232優惠好謝謝副院長那我接下來這一題我請這個總裁央行總裁先過來一下因為現在除了關稅之外還有匯率那所以呢工具機的業者他就說是不是建議政府呢採取這個防禦性的匯率的這個調控這是一個那另外就是說\n經濟學者普遍預期下半年度台灣的經濟成長可能會趨緩所以亞洲的主要一些銀行分別會採取降息的手段請問我們的央行會採取降息的手段嗎\n對我知道那你這個預期就是說如果是上半年是不錯那下半年那如果說來到這種精神掌力都好不過的情況之下向期的結尾可能就不大了\n好 謝謝 我們時間到謝謝李委員 謝謝院長\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.601 --> 00:25.523\n副院長我們請我們的卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長還有鄭副院長嗎兩位請背謝謝李委員好\n\n00:26.851 --> 00:53.406\n院長好副院長好辛苦了今天也是對於關稅的問題請教院長跟副院長我想請教一下在今年5月14號的時候美國的財政部長他有提到就是說我們跟台灣對於關稅的談判台灣有一個非常好的一個提案這是在5月14號的時候那時候\n\n00:54.554 --> 01:19.850\n早出來的時候大家覺得說台灣不錯因為從4月初美國提出關稅之後32%大家嚇得心驚膽跳結果到5月10幾號的時候美國財政部長說台灣有提出一個很不錯的提案我們就相信說我們的行政團隊一定跟美國提出了一些很不錯的一些deal有可能關稅搞不好在5月中下去就有可能確定了這是5月中的事情\n\n01:20.939 --> 01:44.687\n但是到了7月7號的時候美國財政部長貝森特他有提到他就說如果沒有跟美國來達成這個協議的話戒指關稅會反彈到4月2號川普那時候宣布的高額的關稅32%這兩個月不到的時間我想請問一下院長跟副院長這段時間裡面\n\n01:48.576 --> 01:56.549\n對於關稅的談判有發生了什麼樣的一個變化是不是本來有覺得一個不錯的提案那美國也樂於接受\n\n01:57.918 --> 02:27.134\n但是後來呢為什麼兩個月之後呢美國財政部長覺得說那如果沒有談完那有可能會到32%雖然我們最後是到20%左右那這個是院長或是副院長要來答覆謝謝委員的確我們在4月開始啟動談判其實經過四輪的實體談判跟十多次的視訊其實每一次的談判都有所進展那都保持正向的這個發展那我們談判的對口貿易代表署跟商務部\n\n02:27.874 --> 02:55.851\n我們雙方都有進展對方也有速度表達其實我們有達到一定程度的共識不過您所說的在接近期限之前美方當時曾經因為本來是7月9號到期延到7月底希望在7月底之前大家也都希望各國都希望跟美國達成共識我方也希望跟美國達成deal但是最後的確雙方沒有能夠達成deal\n\n02:56.656 --> 03:18.303\n也清楚的告訴我們其實是因為台灣的逆差結構裡面占有九成是來自半導體ICT而這部分連動的美國232正在調查中關稅政策未定那有些病壇對等跟232病壇的國家像日韓歐盟他們涉及的232項目有汽車有鋼等等\n\n03:18.863 --> 03:31.392\n那這些相對的它的稅率是定的相對他們的項目比較單純台灣的聚焦在半導體跟ICT所以我們在五月初那時候談判的時候政府有把這個半導體還有我們資中訊產品一起納進來談所以那時候他講說這個\n\n03:33.874 --> 03:52.276\n有非常好的提案是沒有包括這裡面嗎在這個提案裡面其實主要是我們有提出希望能夠平衡貿易逆差因為像大家都了解對等關稅談判的起源是因為貿易逆差台灣是美國第六大的逆差國所以我們也希望透過關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及採購等等相關的\n\n03:54.137 --> 04:19.043\n所以說當時候美國的財政部長說這個非常好的提案裡面來平衡貿易逆差但是這些提案的是一個範疇那雙方談判會變動因為我們面對是個非傳統的一個經貿談判那美方也會每一次他都會提出他的要求那尤其他跟各國在談所以各國的談判的條件也會影響美方的要求的期待跟談判的進程\n\n04:19.503 --> 04:44.434\n所以它是一個互相影響變動的進行過程當中來前進但是我必須要跟委員報告是說其實台美的談判是有階段性的進展因此從32來調整成20但是的確我們在逆差結構中涉及有一部分是屬於232調查的項目而在8月1號前當時美國的政策還未定所以台美必須要就這個供應鏈合作跟232的項目並談一起談\n\n04:46.835 --> 05:01.031\n那其他涉及232項目像日韓歐盟他們相對的項目有的是比較明確的已經有相關的稅率所以他們也是把對等跟232並談那有取得一定的成果所以我方後續\n\n05:01.792 --> 05:19.410\n的目標就是對等跟232關稅一併談然後我們也要在最終觸及最終稅率的談判的時候來爭取不疊加那這三個目標我們已經都在最近的三次視訊會議當中有提出我方的要求跟表達那副院長最近還要再去美國嗎\n\n05:20.607 --> 05:33.657\n我們大概最近8月1號以後有經過了三次視訊那我上午有提到我們最近一次就是上個禮拜五那我想我們當然任何可能性有利於談判的安排我們都會來積極努力\n\n05:34.245 --> 06:03.345\n當然最終就是要朝著總結會議來所以接下來的這個關稅確定之前還會再去美國嗎還是用視訊就可以了我想應該是最後總結會議也一定應該要在美國來進行那我們也有表達我們隨時都可以去我知道院長給你一個空白的這個價單你隨時都可以去美國有需要就隨時去美國我們全力的支持團辦團隊積極的把我們的方案準備好隨時在雙方那個時間都能夠\n\n06:04.665 --> 06:24.698\n談妥的時候我們就主動能夠去到美國跟他們談判所以我想我們就最後談判的進程我們每一次跟美方視訊都有就下一步以及後續的時程也要一併的持續的進行磋商那因為美方達成協議的方式也有很多那我們也希望說就這個部分來一併討論\n\n06:26.279 --> 06:36.787\n同樣在8月中的時候這個一樣是美國財政部長被深特他提到關稅應如榮兵他預估在10月底之前完成多數的談判\n\n06:38.186 --> 07:03.642\n他說這個像關稅跟冰塊一樣有可能融化最後呢有可能是降低甚至取消那我們有辦法有達到這個機會嗎我想這個Beson部長他的這個發言裡面很重要有一個時辰的一個訊息就是美方有提到說希望還沒有達成協議的國家在10月底前那我也想跟委員報告就是說7月31號美國公布的行政命令裡面\n\n07:04.422 --> 07:27.933\n台灣是列在NX-1附入一的國家那裡面特別提到說以同意或接近與美國完成協議與安全貿易與安全協議在後續與美國完成協議並經總統發布命令載明協議條件之前適用現在這個稅率所以也就是說最後我們必須要談判然後達成協議然後再經由雙方公佈協議所達成的這個條件\n\n07:29.827 --> 07:52.880\n那這樣就是可以完成這樣的談判來決定這個最終的稅率所以目前台灣就是處於一個上需要我們接近完成協議但需要來談後續完成協議並來發布相關協議的條件那你們有沒有預估在10月底或是更早譬如說現在已經快8月下旬了有沒有可能在9月的時候就完成這個關稅談判我想美方財政部長所說的是一個他們general的形成\n\n07:53.560 --> 08:14.069\n當然以我方的看法我們應該是要越快越好有可能在這個期限之前九月就達成關稅的這個協定嗎這都是我們努力的目標因為我們知道有些產業他受到的衝擊比較大我想每一天對他們都是辛苦的那是有機會降到20%以下\n\n08:15.630 --> 08:42.105\n我們現在20%是我看院長有在點頭啊努力啊我們的目標當然就是要努力我也知道啊要努力到20%那我是說就你們現在談判的這個這個跟對方的這樣子談判的這個過程來講20%以下有沒有機會其實在7月31號我們在最後希望達成協議的過程當中跟美方也是有所溝通那也就是因為台灣有關於相關供應鏈的合作跟232要並談\n\n08:43.038 --> 09:06.077\n所以我們希望後續對等232並談我們一併希望把對等關稅再降我們也同時爭取232的優惠目前大概我們的工具機模具塑膠製品還有電子材料這一個受到關稅影響比較大因為我們主要競爭對手不論是韓國或是說德國甚至日本越南墨西哥等等他們有的關稅跟我們一樣但是在\n\n09:06.818 --> 09:35.060\n工具機的方面的話我們明顯是受到影響我們的這個累加的關稅比起來就是會比主要競爭對手還要多那我現在主要在談因為剛有提到這個半導體這232的條款的這部分那目前當然因為台積電還有我們半導體有到美國去設廠我們就是關稅就是零那我想請問一下那接下來的這個談判過程當中我相信美國他們也可能需要或是說希望台灣的除了這一個\n\n09:36.180 --> 10:05.029\n我們的半導體到美國去投資之外因為半導體它是整個產業鏈不是只有半導體還有上游中游下游在談判的過程當中有沒有可能就是說因為接下來因為它是先從半導體移到美國去設廠然後就給你零關稅接下來有可能會不會整個上中下游的產業鏈因為半導體已經過去了也會跟著一起過去美國去做投資如果這部分的話台灣有什麼樣的營運的一個方向\n\n10:05.925 --> 10:23.327\n我想我們近期也積極的跟高科技產業界來座談那除了半導體產業也包括半導體上游材料設備廠物那以及這個下游AIServer跟以及相關EMS等產業來了解我國的這個企業目前在美投資佈局的情形\n\n10:23.817 --> 10:47.419\n因為我們要立即於我們的產業佈局的現況以及他們未來的期待你現在不過去投資的話那未來他們就是給你關稅嘛對不對這個部分就是在我們這幾次的談判當中我們也努力要去了解美方在232關稅可能的走向那目前因為看到揭露的資訊相對有限所以我們有持續性的在了解他們可能的\n\n10:48.519 --> 11:11.324\n因為談判過程當中就是像譬如說台積電去設廠了那就關稅就零那他當然我認為啦他希望說不是只有半導體過去他可能希望說整個產業鏈都能夠到美國去做投資那是跟委員報告在232調查的項目裡面除了半導體還有半導體設備那麼以及半導體衍生品那其實當時在對等關稅這個公布的時候\n\n11:14.145 --> 11:18.452\n也有提到除了半導體半導體設備跟這個衍生品其實還有像\n\n11:20.068 --> 11:47.574\n關鍵礦物藥品木材等等我的意思就是台灣是所以我們自動訊產業半導體這麼發達因為我們有產業鏈在台灣不論你是在竹科中科南科這個產業鏈是美國現在沒辦法去複製的但是如果萬一我們的半導體它要求我們去設廠那是不是未來有可能有可能說我們這些上中下游有可能也過去但是把這個當成是投資美國的一部分\n\n11:48.684 --> 11:55.238\n那這樣子會不會讓美國覺得說那這些也到去美國去投資那在跟他們講關稅談判的時候有沒有更多的這個利基點在經濟部來談一下財力的狀況\n\n11:59.078 --> 12:24.605\n跟委員報告基本上就是說整個AI產業鏈它是從上游到下游其實說AI晶片以外最重要的是伺服器因為我們台美之間最大的一個順差的來源大概就是伺服器還有顯示卡所以這個部分確實是整個如果要建構AI產業鏈的話確實是可能上中下游可能這些產業可能都有需要\n\n12:26.206 --> 12:53.263\n會到美國去做一些投資當然現在產業工會他們也在有這樣的一些行動做一些準備所以我是回到4月初賴總統他所講的投資台灣投資美國對就是說我們要加碼投資美國形成台灣加一就是說藉由投資美國也帶動台灣的產業再次發展就是說\n\n12:54.904 --> 13:18.353\n院長那時候有講過就是說美國要再次強大也讓台灣再次強大所以我剛才問說如果我們這些產業也到美國去投資的話那第一個他可能會要求因為不論是美國是韓國是日本他都要求你去做投資不論是日本的5500億或是說這個韓國3500億我相信他也會要求我們去做一些投資\n\n13:19.774 --> 13:33.472\n這些投資就是我剛所講的是包含那些產業的投資不曉得是不是在這次的談判裡面也能夠當成是我們過去投資然後用這東西來降低關稅的一個談判的籌碼我跟委員講幾個原則第一個\n\n13:37.097 --> 13:59.936\n產業耕留台灣尤其是高科技產業必須維持台灣現在關鍵領先地位這個政策政府跟民間業者都有共識所以一定要耕留台灣全球佈局以台灣加一的方式去同時最高科技領先在台灣地位研發在台灣這個原則都不會改變至於細節上我們跟美國怎麼談他希望我們怎麼去做投資\n\n14:00.516 --> 14:25.549\n我想美國的確有他振興製造業這樣的一個目標尤其是AI跟這個半導體相關未來產業供應鏈不過我想談判雙方從台灣的立場我們希望談的是供應鏈的合作然後也是要有利於我國產業的一個國際的佈局所以在這樣的一個原則底下我們來跟美方來討論這個供應鏈的合作跟投資的\n\n14:26.729 --> 14:42.984\n這個佈局因為過去雙方的產業高度互補他們研發創新我們有製造的優勢那我們的產業也已經到了這個正在擴大國際佈局的階段所以未來我們台灣加一站美國如何擴大投資佈局但同時達到雙方互利互補雙贏\n\n14:44.625 --> 15:13.495\n的一個供應鏈的合作這是我們談判的目標也在此這樣的一個共同的戰略目標底下能夠來爭取更好的這個稅率對等稅率以及232優惠好謝謝副院長那我接下來這一題我請這個總裁央行總裁先過來一下因為現在除了關稅之外還有匯率那所以呢工具機的業者他就說是不是建議政府呢採取這個防禦性的匯率的這個調控這是一個那另外就是說\n\n15:16.939 --> 15:29.078\n經濟學者普遍預期下半年度台灣的經濟成長可能會趨緩所以亞洲的主要一些銀行分別會採取降息的手段請問我們的央行會採取降息的手段嗎\n\n15:43.217 --> 16:10.276\n對我知道那你這個預期就是說如果是上半年是不錯那下半年那如果說來到這種精神掌力都好不過的情況之下向期的結尾可能就不大了\n\n16:11.940 --> 16:13.002\n好謝謝我們時間到謝謝李委員謝謝院長\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.601,"end":25.523,"text":"副院長 我們請我們的卓院長還有鄭副院長請卓院長還有鄭副院長嗎兩位請背謝謝李委員好"},{"start":26.851,"end":53.406,"text":"院長好 副院長好 辛苦了今天也是對於關稅的問題請教院長跟副院長我想請教一下在今年5月14號的時候美國的財政部長他有提到就是說我們跟台灣對於關稅的談判台灣有一個非常好的一個提案這是在5月14號的時候那時候"},{"start":54.554,"end":79.85,"text":"早出來的時候大家覺得說台灣不錯因為從4月初美國提出關稅之後32%大家嚇得心驚膽跳結果到5月10幾號的時候美國財政部長說台灣有提出一個很不錯的提案我們就相信說我們的行政團隊一定跟美國提出了一些很不錯的一些deal有可能關稅搞不好在5月中下去就有可能確定了這是5月中的事情"},{"start":80.939,"end":104.687,"text":"但是到了7月7號的時候美國財政部長貝森特他有提到他就說如果沒有跟美國來達成這個協議的話戒指關稅會反彈到4月2號川普那時候宣布的高額的關稅32%這兩個月不到的時間我想請問一下院長跟副院長這段時間裡面"},{"start":108.576,"end":116.549,"text":"對於關稅的談判有發生了什麼樣的一個變化是不是本來有覺得一個不錯的提案那美國也樂於接受"},{"start":117.918,"end":147.134,"text":"但是後來呢為什麼兩個月之後呢美國財政部長覺得說那如果沒有談完那有可能會到32%雖然我們最後是到20%左右那這個是院長或是副院長要來答覆謝謝委員的確我們在4月開始啟動談判其實經過四輪的實體談判跟十多次的視訊其實每一次的談判都有所進展那都保持正向的這個發展那我們談判的對口貿易代表署跟商務部"},{"start":147.874,"end":175.851,"text":"我們雙方都有進展對方也有速度表達其實我們有達到一定程度的共識不過您所說的在接近期限之前美方當時曾經因為本來是7月9號到期延到7月底希望在7月底之前大家也都希望各國都希望跟美國達成共識我方也希望跟美國達成deal但是最後的確雙方沒有能夠達成deal"},{"start":176.656,"end":198.303,"text":"也清楚的告訴我們其實是因為台灣的逆差結構裡面占有九成是來自半導體ICT而這部分連動的美國232正在調查中關稅政策未定那有些病壇對等跟232病壇的國家像日韓 歐盟他們涉及的232項目有汽車 有鋼等等"},{"start":198.863,"end":211.392,"text":"那這些相對的它的稅率是定的相對他們的項目比較單純台灣的聚焦在半導體跟ICT所以我們在五月初那時候談判的時候政府有把這個半導體還有我們資中訊產品一起納進來談所以那時候他講說這個"},{"start":213.874,"end":232.276,"text":"有非常好的提案是沒有包括這裡面嗎在這個提案裡面其實主要是我們有提出希望能夠平衡貿易逆差因為像大家都了解對等關稅談判的起源是因為貿易逆差台灣是美國第六大的逆差國所以我們也希望透過關稅非關稅貿易障礙以及採購等等相關的"},{"start":234.137,"end":259.043,"text":"所以說當時候美國的財政部長說這個非常好的提案裡面來平衡貿易逆差但是這些提案的是一個範疇那雙方談判會變動因為我們面對是個非傳統的一個經貿談判那美方也會每一次他都會提出他的要求那尤其他跟各國在談所以各國的談判的條件也會影響美方的要求的期待跟談判的進程"},{"start":259.503,"end":284.434,"text":"所以它是一個互相影響變動的進行過程當中來前進但是我必須要跟委員報告是說其實台美的談判是有階段性的進展因此從32來調整成20但是的確我們在逆差結構中涉及有一部分是屬於232調查的項目而在8月1號前當時美國的政策還未定所以台美必須要就這個供應鏈合作跟232的項目並談 一起談"},{"start":286.835,"end":301.031,"text":"那其他涉及232項目像日韓歐盟他們相對的項目有的是比較明確的已經有相關的稅率所以他們也是把對等跟232並談那有取得一定的成果所以我方後續"},{"start":301.792,"end":319.41,"text":"的目標就是對等跟232關稅一併談然後我們也要在最終觸及最終稅率的談判的時候來爭取不疊加那這三個目標我們已經都在最近的三次視訊會議當中有提出我方的要求跟表達那副院長最近還要再去美國嗎"},{"start":320.607,"end":333.657,"text":"我們大概最近8月1號以後有經過了三次視訊那我上午有提到我們最近一次就是上個禮拜五那我想我們當然任何可能性有利於談判的安排我們都會來積極努力"},{"start":334.245,"end":363.345,"text":"當然最終就是要朝著總結會議來所以接下來的這個關稅確定之前還會再去美國嗎還是用視訊就可以了我想應該是最後總結會議也一定應該要在美國來進行那我們也有表達我們隨時都可以去我知道院長給你一個空白的這個價單你隨時都可以去美國有需要就隨時去美國我們全力的支持團辦團隊積極的把我們的方案準備好隨時在雙方那個時間都能夠"},{"start":364.665,"end":384.698,"text":"談妥的時候我們就主動能夠去到美國跟他們談判所以我想我們就最後談判的進程我們每一次跟美方視訊都有就下一步以及後續的時程也要一併的持續的進行磋商那因為美方達成協議的方式也有很多那我們也希望說就這個部分來一併討論"},{"start":386.279,"end":396.787,"text":"同樣在8月中的時候這個一樣是美國財政部長被深特他提到關稅應如榮兵他預估在10月底之前完成多數的談判"},{"start":398.186,"end":423.642,"text":"他說這個像關稅跟冰塊一樣有可能融化最後呢有可能是降低甚至取消那我們有辦法有達到這個機會嗎我想這個Beson部長他的這個發言裡面很重要有一個時辰的一個訊息就是美方有提到說希望還沒有達成協議的國家在10月底前那我也想跟委員報告就是說7月31號美國公布的行政命令裡面"},{"start":424.422,"end":447.933,"text":"台灣是列在NX-1附入一的國家那裡面特別提到說以同意或接近與美國完成協議與安全貿易與安全協議在後續與美國完成協議並經總統發布命令載明協議條件之前適用現在這個稅率所以也就是說最後我們必須要談判然後達成協議然後再經由雙方公佈協議所達成的這個條件"},{"start":449.827,"end":472.88,"text":"那這樣就是可以完成這樣的談判來決定這個最終的稅率所以目前台灣就是處於一個上需要我們接近完成協議但需要來談後續完成協議並來發布相關協議的條件那你們有沒有預估在10月底或是更早譬如說現在已經快8月下旬了有沒有可能在9月的時候就完成這個關稅談判我想美方財政部長所說的是一個他們general的形成"},{"start":473.56,"end":494.069,"text":"當然以我方的看法我們應該是要越快越好有可能在這個期限之前九月就達成關稅的這個協定嗎這都是我們努力的目標因為我們知道有些產業他受到的衝擊比較大我想每一天對他們都是辛苦的那是有機會降到20%以下"},{"start":495.63,"end":522.105,"text":"我們現在20%是我看院長有在點頭啊努力啊我們的目標當然就是要努力我也知道啊 要努力到20%那我是說就你們現在談判的這個這個跟對方的這樣子談判的這個過程來講20%以下有沒有機會其實在7月31號我們在最後希望達成協議的過程當中跟美方也是有所溝通那也就是因為台灣有關於相關供應鏈的合作跟232要並談"},{"start":523.038,"end":546.077,"text":"所以我們希望後續對等232並談我們一併希望把對等關稅再降我們也同時爭取232的優惠目前大概我們的工具機模具 塑膠製品還有電子材料這一個受到關稅影響比較大因為我們主要競爭對手不論是韓國或是說德國甚至日本 越南 墨西哥等等他們有的關稅跟我們一樣但是在"},{"start":546.818,"end":575.06,"text":"工具機的方面的話我們明顯是受到影響我們的這個累加的關稅比起來就是會比主要競爭對手還要多那我現在主要在談因為剛有提到這個半導體這232的條款的這部分那目前當然因為台積電還有我們半導體有到美國去設廠我們就是關稅就是零那我想請問一下那接下來的這個談判過程當中我相信美國他們也可能需要或是說希望台灣的除了這一個"},{"start":576.18,"end":605.029,"text":"我們的半導體到美國去投資之外因為半導體它是整個產業鏈不是只有半導體還有上游中游下游在談判的過程當中有沒有可能就是說因為接下來因為它是先從半導體移到美國去設廠然後就給你零關稅接下來有可能會不會整個上中下游的產業鏈因為半導體已經過去了也會跟著一起過去美國去做投資如果這部分的話台灣有什麼樣的營運的一個方向"},{"start":605.925,"end":623.327,"text":"我想我們近期也積極的跟高科技產業界來座談那除了半導體產業也包括半導體上游材料設備廠物那以及這個下游AI Server跟以及相關EMS等產業來了解我國的這個企業目前在美投資佈局的情形"},{"start":623.817,"end":647.419,"text":"因為我們要立即於我們的產業佈局的現況以及他們未來的期待你現在不過去投資的話那未來他們就是給你關稅嘛對不對這個部分就是在我們這幾次的談判當中我們也努力要去了解美方在232關稅可能的走向那目前因為看到揭露的資訊相對有限所以我們有持續性的在了解他們可能的"},{"start":648.519,"end":671.324,"text":"因為談判過程當中就是像譬如說台積電去設廠了那就關稅就零那他當然我認為啦他希望說不是只有半導體過去他可能希望說整個產業鏈都能夠到美國去做投資那是跟委員報告在232調查的項目裡面除了半導體還有半導體設備那麼以及半導體衍生品那其實當時在對等關稅這個公布的時候"},{"start":674.145,"end":678.452,"text":"也有提到除了半導體半導體設備跟這個衍生品其實還有像"},{"start":680.068,"end":707.574,"text":"關鍵礦物 藥品 木材等等我的意思就是台灣是所以我們自動訊產業半導體這麼發達因為我們有產業鏈在台灣不論你是在竹科 中科 南科這個產業鏈是美國現在沒辦法去複製的但是如果萬一我們的半導體它要求我們去設廠那是不是未來有可能有可能說我們這些上中下游有可能也過去但是把這個當成是投資美國的一部分"},{"start":708.684,"end":715.238,"text":"那這樣子會不會讓美國覺得說那這些也到去美國去投資那在跟他們講關稅談判的時候有沒有更多的這個利基點在經濟部來談一下財力的狀況"},{"start":719.078,"end":744.605,"text":"跟委員報告基本上就是說整個AI產業鏈它是從上游到下游其實說AI晶片以外最重要的是伺服器因為我們台美之間最大的一個順差的來源大概就是伺服器還有顯示卡所以這個部分確實是整個如果要建構AI產業鏈的話確實是可能上中下游可能這些產業可能都有需要"},{"start":746.206,"end":773.263,"text":"會到美國去做一些投資當然現在產業工會他們也在有這樣的一些行動做一些準備所以我是回到4月初賴總統他所講的投資台灣投資美國對就是說我們要加碼投資美國形成台灣加一就是說藉由投資美國也帶動台灣的產業再次發展就是說"},{"start":774.904,"end":798.353,"text":"院長那時候有講過就是說美國要再次強大也讓台灣再次強大所以我剛才問說如果我們這些產業也到美國去投資的話那第一個他可能會要求因為不論是美國是韓國是日本他都要求你去做投資不論是日本的5500億或是說這個韓國3500億我相信他也會要求我們去做一些投資"},{"start":799.774,"end":813.472,"text":"這些投資就是我剛所講的是包含那些產業的投資不曉得是不是在這次的談判裡面也能夠當成是我們過去投資然後用這東西來降低關稅的一個談判的籌碼我跟委員講幾個原則第一個"},{"start":817.097,"end":839.936,"text":"產業耕留台灣尤其是高科技產業必須維持台灣現在關鍵領先地位這個政策政府跟民間業者都有共識所以一定要耕留台灣全球佈局以台灣加一的方式去同時最高科技領先在台灣地位研發在台灣這個原則都不會改變至於細節上我們跟美國怎麼談他希望我們怎麼去做投資"},{"start":840.516,"end":865.549,"text":"我想美國的確有他振興製造業這樣的一個目標尤其是AI跟這個半導體相關未來產業供應鏈不過我想談判雙方從台灣的立場我們希望談的是供應鏈的合作然後也是要有利於我國產業的一個國際的佈局所以在這樣的一個原則底下我們來跟美方來討論這個供應鏈的合作跟投資的"},{"start":866.729,"end":882.984,"text":"這個佈局因為過去雙方的產業高度互補他們研發創新我們有製造的優勢那我們的產業也已經到了這個正在擴大國際佈局的階段所以未來我們台灣加一站美國如何擴大投資佈局但同時達到雙方互利互補雙贏"},{"start":884.625,"end":913.495,"text":"的一個供應鏈的合作這是我們談判的目標也在此這樣的一個共同的戰略目標底下能夠來爭取更好的這個稅率對等稅率以及232優惠好謝謝副院長那我接下來這一題我請這個總裁央行總裁先過來一下因為現在除了關稅之外還有匯率那所以呢工具機的業者他就說是不是建議政府呢採取這個防禦性的匯率的這個調控這是一個那另外就是說"},{"start":916.939,"end":929.078,"text":"經濟學者普遍預期下半年度台灣的經濟成長可能會趨緩所以亞洲的主要一些銀行分別會採取降息的手段請問我們的央行會採取降息的手段嗎"},{"start":943.217,"end":970.276,"text":"對我知道那你這個預期就是說如果是上半年是不錯那下半年那如果說來到這種精神掌力都好不過的情況之下向期的結尾可能就不大了"},{"start":971.94,"end":973.002,"text":"好 謝謝 我們時間到謝謝李委員 謝謝院長"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":2,"blocks":[["李委員坤城：（14時30分）江副院長，請卓院長及鄭副院長。"],["主席：卓院長、鄭副院長，請兩位備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：李委員好。"],["李委員坤城：院長好、副院長好，辛苦了。"],["鄭副院長麗君：委員好。"],["李委員坤城：今天也是就關稅的問題請教院長及副院長，我想請教一下，今年5月14號美國的財政部長有提到跟臺灣的關稅談判，臺灣有一個非常好的提案，那是在5月14號的時候。那時候這個報導出來，大家覺得臺灣不錯，因為從美國4月初提出32%關稅後，大家嚇得心驚膽跳，結果到5月十幾號時，美國財政部長說臺灣有提出一個很不錯的提案，我們就相信我們行政團隊一定跟美國提出了一些很不錯的deal，關稅搞不好在5月中下旬就有可能確定了，這是5月中的事情。但是到了7月7號，一樣，美國財政部長貝森特有提到，如果沒有跟美國達成協議，屆時關稅會反彈到4月2號川普宣布的高額關稅32%。這不到兩個月的時間，我想請問一下院長跟副院長，這段時間裡面，我們對於關稅的談判發生了什麼樣的變化？是不是本來覺得有一個不錯的提案，美國也樂於接受，但是後來為什麼兩個月之後，美國財政部部長覺得如果沒有談完，有可能會到32%，雖然我們最後是20%左右，這個是院長或是副院長要來答復？"],["卓院長榮泰：請副院長來答復。"],["李委員坤城：謝謝。"],["鄭副院長麗君：謝謝委員。的確我們在4月開始啟動談判，經過四輪的實體談判跟十多次的視訊，其實每一次的談判都有所進展，都保持正向的發展。我們談判的對口是貿易代表署跟商務部，雙方都有進展，對方也數度表達，其實我們有達到一定程度的共識。不過您所說的，在接近期限之前，美方當時曾經……因為本來是7月9號到期，延到7月底，在7月底之前，大家都希望、各國都希望跟美國達成共識，我方也希望跟美國達成deal，但是最後的確雙方沒有能夠達成deal。美方有清楚的告訴我們其實是因為臺灣的逆差結構裡面有九成是來自半導體、ICT，而這部分連動的美國232條款正在調查中，關稅政策未定，而有些對等跟232條款併談的國家，像日、韓、歐盟涉及的232項目有汽車、鋼等等，這些相對的稅率是定的，相對他們的項目比較單純，而臺灣的聚焦在半導體跟ICT，需要更多時間……"],["李委員坤城：所以我們在5月初談判沒有把半導體、資通訊產品一起納進來？那時候他講有非常好的提案，沒有包含在這裡面嗎？"],["鄭副院長麗君：這個提案裡面其實主要是我們有提出希望能夠平衡貿易逆差，大家都了解對等關稅談判的起源是因為貿易逆差，而臺灣是美國第六大的逆差國，所以我們也希望透過關稅、非關稅貿易障礙以及採購等等相關的提案、計畫來平衡貿易逆差。"],["李委員坤城：所以當時候美國的財政部長說這個非常好的提案裡面……"],["鄭副院長麗君：但這些提案是一個範疇，雙方談判會變動，因為我們面對的是一個非傳統的經貿談判，美方每一次都會提出他的要求，尤其他跟各國在談，各國的談判條件也會影響美方的要求、期待跟談判的進程，所以這是在一個互相影響變動的進行過程中前進。但我必須要跟委員報告的是，其實臺美談判是有階段性的進展，從32%調整成20%，的確我們在逆差結構中有一部分是涉及232調查的項目，在8月1號前，當時美國的政策還未定，所以臺美必須要就供應鏈合作跟232的項目併談，而其他涉及232項目，像日、韓、歐盟相對的項目有的比較明確，已經有相關的稅率，所以他們也是把對等跟232併談，有取得一定的成果。"],["李委員坤城：好。"],["鄭副院長麗君：所以我方後續的目標就是對等跟232關稅一併談，我們也要在最終觸及最終稅率談判時爭取不疊加，對於這3個目標，我們已經都在最近的3次視訊會議當中提出我方的要求跟表達。"],["李委員坤城：副院長最近還要再去美國嗎？"],["鄭副院長麗君：我們最近在8月2號以後有經過了3次視訊，我上午有提到，最近一次就是上個禮拜五。我想我們當然對於任何可能性、有利於談判的安排都會積極努力，最終就是要朝著總結會議來努力。"],["李委員坤城：接下來關稅確定之前還會再去美國嗎？還是用視訊就可以了？"],["鄭副院長麗君：沒有，我想最後總結會議應該要在美國進行，我們也有表達我們隨時都可以去，也隨時保持聯繫……"],["李委員坤城：我知道院長給你一個空白的假單，你隨時都可以去美國，有需要就隨時去美國。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們全力支持談判團隊，積極地把我們的方案準備好，在雙方時間都能夠談妥的時候，我們就隨時能夠主動去美國跟他們談判。"],["鄭副院長麗君：是，所以我想就最後談判的進程，我們每一次跟美方視訊都有就下一步以及後續的時程一併、持續的進行磋商。因為美方達成協議的方式有很多，我們也希望就這個部分一併討論。"],["李委員坤城：好，在8月中的時候，美國的財政部長貝森特提到：關稅應如融冰，他預估在10月底之前完成多數的談判，他說關稅跟冰塊一樣，有可能融化，最後有可能降低甚至取消，那我們有辦法達到這個機會嗎？"],["鄭副院長麗君：貝森特部長的發言裡面有一個很重要的時程訊息……"],["李委員坤城：對。"],["鄭副院長麗君：美方有提到，希望還沒有達成協議的國家在10月底前完成。我也想跟委員報告，7月31號美國公布的行政命令裡面，臺灣是列在「NX1附錄一」的國家，裡面特別提到，已同意或接近於美國完成貿易與安全協議，在後續與美國完成協議並經總統發布命令載明協議條件之前，適用現在這個稅率。也就是說，最後我們必須要談判，然後達成協議，再由雙方公布協議所達成的條件，這樣就可以完成談判，決定最終的稅率，所以目前臺灣就是處於一個尚需要……我們接近完成協議，但需要談後續完成協議並發布相關協議的條件。"],["李委員坤城：你們有沒有預估在10月底或是更早，現在已經快8月下旬了，有沒有可能在9月就完成這個關稅談判？"],["鄭副院長麗君：我想美方財政部長所說的是一個general的行程，當然以我方的立場……"],["李委員坤城：就目前副院長……"],["鄭副院長麗君：我們應該是要越快越好，因為我們也知道……"],["李委員坤城：有可能在這個期限之前，9月就達成關稅的協定嗎？"],["鄭副院長麗君：這都是我們努力的目標，因為我們知道有些產業受到的衝擊比較大，我想每一天對他們都是辛苦的，所以我們會繼續努力。"],["李委員坤城：有機會降到20%以下？"],["鄭副院長麗君：現在20%是暫訂的稅率……"],["李委員坤城：我看院長有在點頭啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：努力，努力爭取……"],["鄭副院長麗君：我們的目標當然就是談……"],["李委員坤城：我也知道要努力到20%，我是說，就你們現在跟對方談判的過程來講，20%以下有沒有機會？"],["鄭副院長麗君：其實在7月31號，我們最後希望達成協議的過程當中，跟美方也有所溝通，因為臺灣相關供應鏈的合作跟232要併談，所以我們希望後續對等、232併談，我們一併希望把對等關稅再降，也同時爭取232的優惠。"],["李委員坤城：目前工具機、模具、塑膠製品還有電子材料受到關稅影響比較大，因為我們的主要競爭對手，不論是韓國或德國，甚至是日本、越南、墨西哥等等，他們有的關稅跟我們一樣，但就工具機方面來說，我們明顯受到影響！我們所累加的關稅，比起來就是會比主要競爭對手多！我現在主要想談的是半導體232條款，因為台積電有到美國設半導體廠，所以目前的關稅是零，我想請問在接下來的談判過程中，我相信美國也可能需要或希望臺灣除了半導體能到美國投資之外……其實半導體是整個產業鏈，所以不是只有半導體，還包括上游、中游、下游。在談判過程當中有沒有可能……因為他是先要求半導體移到美國設廠，就給零關稅，但接下來會不會要求整個上、中、下游的產業鏈也會跟著一起去美國投資？畢竟半導體已經過去了。就這部分來說，臺灣有什麼樣的因應方向？"],["鄭副院長麗君：我們近期也積極跟科技產業界座談，除了半導體產業外，也包括半導體上游，如材料設備廠務以及下游的AI server及相關EMS等產業，以了解我國企業目前在美投資布局的情形。因為我們要立基於產業布局的現況以及他們未來的期待，然後……"],["李委員坤城：因為現在不過去投資的話，未來他們就是課你關稅，對不對？"],["鄭副院長麗君：這部分在這幾次談判當中，我們也努力想去了解美方對232關稅的可能走向。目前看到所揭露的資訊相對有限，不過我們仍持續性的在了解他們可能的關稅。"],["李委員坤城：談判過程當中，比如台積電已經去設廠了，所以關稅就是零，但我認為他希望的不是只有半導體過去，他可能希望整個產業鏈都能到美國去投資。"],["鄭副院長麗君：跟委員報告，在232調查的項目裡，除了半導體外，還有半導體設備以及半導體衍生品。其實當時在對等關稅公布時也有提到，除了半導體、半導體設備跟衍生品外，像關鍵礦物、藥品、木材等等……"],["李委員坤城：我的意思就是臺灣的資通訊、半導體產業之所以這麼發達，是因為我們有產業鏈在臺灣，不論是在竹科、中科或南科，而這個產業鏈是美國現在沒辦法複製的！如果他除了要求我們的半導體去設廠外，未來是不是有可能也要這些上、中、下游過去，並當成是投資美國的一部分？如果這些也到美國投資，那麼在跟他們談判關稅的時候會不會有更多的利基點？"],["卓院長榮泰：請經濟部談一下產業的狀況。"],["何次長晉滄：好。跟委員報告，基本上整個AI產業鏈從上游到下游，除了AI晶片以外，最重要的是伺服器，因為臺美之間最大的順差來源，大概就是伺服器還有顯示卡，所以要建構AI產業鏈，確實上、中、下游的相關產業都可能需要到美國投資。現在產業公會也有這樣的行動，正在做一些準備。"],["李委員坤城：所以回到4月初賴總統所講的，臺灣要加碼投資美國，形成臺灣+1，即藉由投資美國來帶動臺灣產業再次發展！院長那時候有講，美國要再次強大，也讓臺灣再次強大。所以我剛才才會問，如果我們這些產業也到美國投資的話，那麼第一個，他可能會要求……因為不論是韓國或日本，他都要求你去美國投資，不管是日本的5,500億或韓國2,500億。我相信他也會要求我們做一些投資，而這些投資就是我剛才所講的，包含那些產業的投資在內，不曉得在這次談判裡，能不能用我們過去投資的這些東西來成為降低關稅談判的籌碼？"],["卓院長榮泰：投資的部分我請副院長說明，我跟委員講幾個原則。第一個，產業根留臺灣，尤其高科技產業必須維持臺灣現在的關鍵領先地位政策，這點政府跟民間的業者都有共識，所以一定要根留臺灣！"],["李委員坤城：當然。"],["卓院長榮泰：至於全球布局，則以臺灣+1的方式去做，同時，讓臺灣在最高科技上居於領先地位、研發在臺灣，這些原則都不會改變。至於細節上，我們跟著美國要怎麼談？他希望我們怎麼去投資？由副院長來說明。"],["鄭副院長麗君：我想美國的確有振興製造業這樣的目標，尤其是AI跟半導體相關未來產業供應鏈，不過我想談判雙方從臺灣的立場，我們希望談的是供應鏈的合作，然後也是要有利於我國產業的國際布局，所以在這樣的原則底下，我們來跟美方討論這個供應鏈的合作跟投資的布局。因為過去雙方的產業高度互補，他們研發創新而我們有製造的優勢，我們的產業也已經到了正在擴大國際布局的階段，所以未來臺灣+1在美國如何擴大投資布局，同時達到雙方互利、互補雙贏的供應鏈合作，這是我們談判的目標，也在這樣共同的戰略目標底下，能夠來爭取更好的稅率，對等稅率以及232優惠。"],["李委員坤城：OK，謝謝副院長。","接下來這一題，我請央行總裁先過來一下。現在除了關稅之外，還有匯率，所以工具機業者就建議政府是不是可以採取防禦性的匯率調控？這是一個；另外一個就是經濟學者普遍預期下半年度臺灣的經濟成長可能會趨緩，所以亞洲一些主要的銀行紛紛會採取降息的手段，請問央行會採取降息的手段嗎？"],["楊總裁金龍：基本上……"],["李委員坤城：沒關係，因為時間到了，請簡短回答。"],["楊總裁金龍：基本上，今年我們的經濟成長率很好，我們的出口也都很好，到目前為止，我們的物價指數年增率也是低於2%，而要不要降息是要經過理監事會的討論，我們9月份有……"],["李委員坤城：對，我知道。當然你這些預期就是說，上半年確實是不錯，超過預期，但下半年呢？"],["楊總裁金龍：我們下半年的經濟成長率也達到2.3%，不錯。"],["李委員坤城：如果在經濟成長率都還不錯的情況之下，降息的機會可能就不大了？"],["楊總裁金龍：這個是由理監事會來討論。"],["李委員坤城：OK，謝謝副院長，也謝謝院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝，時間到了。謝謝李委員，謝謝院長。","下一位請黃健豪委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":158,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-26","speakers":["江啟臣","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","許宇甄","林倩綺","陳昭姿","王定宇","黃珊珊","羅美玲","鍾佳濱","羅智強","陳冠廷","高金素梅","李坤城","黃健豪","陳亭妃","賴士葆","林岱樺","徐巧芯","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","牛煦庭"],"page_start":45,"meetingDate":["2025-08-25"],"gazette_id":"1147401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147401_00003","1147401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第26次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「臺美關稅談判之進程、方針、原則及臺灣產業可能遭受之衝擊影響評估」專案\n報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147401_00003"}}}