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{\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:03,850 --> 00:00:09,681\n謝謝院會主席江副院長各位同仁新聞節的朋友楊卿瑩發言首先邀請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:24,248 --> 00:00:39,212\n我今天聽你一直強調說有跟這個在野溝通那麼我要請問一下在整個關稅的談判跟議題上面行政院有跟在野黨的黨團來溝通嗎溝通了什麼事請說說明\n\n3\n00:00:40,706 --> 00:01:07,169\n我們有一次曾經邀請黨團的幹部去到行政院就這個內容告訴大家當時我們能夠向黨團說明的部分但是我們也希望黨團在聽取說明之後有些很重相關的內容不宜對外宣布所以我們有這個過程但是內容還是在國際談判慣例當中我們還要謹守分際今天算是一個正式公開的說明\n\n4\n00:01:07,589 --> 00:01:17,587\n但也有所保留這很抱歉容許我們一定要做有所保留等到協議達成的時候我們一定向國人跟國會來做說明也一定送請國會來審議\n\n5\n00:01:19,505 --> 00:01:42,220\n好但是到目前為止本席跟人民我們似乎感感受不到行政院有想溝通跟介入訊息在可以介入的範圍內因為大家幾乎都是瞎子摸象到現在你產業的座談會有開一場一場的座談媒體報導也一直在跟隨到底我們的方向\n\n6\n00:01:43,081 --> 00:02:03,580\n就是看不到行政院對於我們整體性的一個關稅它能夠維持多久我們的農產品會不會全面的開放還是如此如何美豬美牛會不會鬆綁對我們產業整個的衝擊有多大這一些的方向我們看不到\n\n7\n00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:26,753\n因為我們看到日韓在談判的時候他們可以揭露的時候他們就給國人報告而且反觀我們呢到底我們的疊加關稅到底是怎麼回事呢總統在八月份的記者會都還沒有公開說明所以這次我論點是認為內部的溝通他是不及格的\n\n8\n00:02:27,333 --> 00:02:41,940\n那所以本席要再請教在上午您有說有跟執政黨的黨團溝通那請問在四月份我們關稅風暴到現在四月份就等於是四個月後才到立法院來報告\n\n9\n00:02:43,061 --> 00:03:02,684\n我要請問你透過你們執政黨民進黨黨團到底溝通了什麼因為我們看到在8月10號的時候在立法院協商的時候整個執政黨的幹部都還在反對行政院到國會來報告\n\n10\n00:03:04,145 --> 00:03:33,232\n他們說要等到整體的結束之後才能夠來國會來報告而且還嗆說如果有透露那談判不順的時候那談判不好的時候要嗆民嗆在野黨所以你們要負責所以本席要請教本席要請教也就是在整個談判性的一個過程當中我們看到\n\n11\n00:03:35,253 --> 00:03:56,720\n如果說談判不順是要在野黨來負責嗎那行政部門不用負責嗎我請首先我要謝謝委員參加過好幾場的產業座談會你也看得出來我們座談會當中那種互動的模式跟我們聽取業者請針對本席的提問因為你說透過你們執政黨\n\n12\n00:03:59,881 --> 00:04:19,287\n黨團來做溝通8月4號還在嗆還說破壞進行中的談判為談判製造更多不可控的因素早上那段話是說有委員說我們這一年當中跟在野黨團互動幾次我說有兩次以上是到行政院來\n\n13\n00:04:19,907 --> 00:04:35,340\n平常是透過黨團來跟朝野黨團所以我告訴你因為你四個月後才來報告那就是說因為你有請執政黨的黨團來做溝通那我也坦白告訴你8月4號還嗆在野黨甚至說談判不順你在野黨必須要負責那我請問卓院長談判不管如何怎樣不順也好順也好\n\n14\n00:04:45,248 --> 00:04:46,791\n那就成了你的執政黨黨團這麼樣的嗆你認為是在野黨要負責嗎還是你執政黨的\n\n15\n00:04:54,062 --> 00:05:18,547\n政府不用負責既然叫執政黨負起政治責任更多的責任都是應該的我們繼續討論我非常的樂見您今天到立法院來做報告我們在台中的時候你也告訴本席一句話只要國會來邀請你都非常樂意立即來報告所以也就是\n\n16\n00:05:19,207 --> 00:05:37,797\n原本的執政黨黨團一再的抹黑在野黨這是不對的這是不對的在此時我們必須要一起來努力我跟執政黨黨團之間並沒有做這樣的要求說延緩來報告我們都期待儘快依照大約你沒有這樣請他們延緩他們這樣子8月4號這個錄影錄音這樣子去嗆\n\n17\n00:05:44,201 --> 00:06:08,009\n你應該要回去好好的跟他們溝通你必須要跟他們好好的溝通所以你要必須跟你的執政黨的黨團去溝通那麼過去駐美代表沈旅雄先生他講了一句非常有名的這個名言他說什麼都問美國人這就不是\n\n18\n00:06:09,269 --> 00:06:31,420\n外交官所以相對本事要告訴你一句話什麼要求你都接受這也不叫談判代表所以我認為我們國會的監督跟人民的聲音可以作為你在談判的一個後盾你認為政府會好好的重視跟善用國會的監督跟人民的這個聲音嗎會我們會聽取業界當然我們也會重視國會給我們任何的建議\n\n19\n00:06:37,096 --> 00:07:06,416\n我想這個都會在談判當中我們可以轉化成一種談判內容甚至一個對我們的鞭策跟助力好謝謝卓議員長你跟本席的論點是一樣也就是國會的監督跟人民的聲音是作為談判非常重要的後盾此時此刻我們必須要好好的去團結應對我們這個關稅所以接下來本席要請教對美的加大投資美方的期待到底是什麼\n\n20\n00:07:07,977 --> 00:07:21,708\n日本需要請問剛剛我們說了照單全收他就不是談判我要謝謝正副院長帶著團隊到美國去但正副院長告訴我們美國的財長說他可能暫時性的會到10月\n\n21\n00:07:22,745 --> 00:07:41,006\n同時他們每一次的見面都會擴大這個期待那到底請教目前談判到現在他們還有沒有擴大期待請做說明先回應剛剛委員所提我在第一輪實體磋商的時候就跟美方說我國的法律有國會保留條款\n\n22\n00:07:41,607 --> 00:07:55,874\n我把相關的條約締結法的法條都給了對方所以很清楚的這個談判的結果的協議最後是要送交大院來審議我想我們有非常清楚表達剛剛回應委員的第一個問題那第二是這個我們談判\n\n23\n00:07:58,715 --> 00:08:14,442\n這個當然希望是要降關稅那降關稅我方也的確希望平衡貿易逆差來說服美方降關稅但是我們也有所原則我們在這個國民健康糧食安全產業利益的原則之上來跟美方來進行磋商\n\n24\n00:08:15,382 --> 00:08:44,060\n那至於委員所垂詢的有關後續的談判過程當中涉及供應鏈的部分232條款跟投資的部分目前還在談判中所以目前還在談判中針對本席的問題提問目前因為您說每一次見面都會有擴大的期待那目前在談判的當中我們還是進行我剛剛所謂的每一次見面都會擴大期待指的是說隨著因為過去幾個月談判美國是跟各國在談判的\n\n25\n00:08:44,980 --> 00:09:05,893\n請針對本席的評論那是不是到目前為止還有擴大擴大的期待有沒有目前我們正在磋商的就是供應鏈的合作跟爭取232的優惠因為我們也想要了解美方232關稅的走向謝謝曾副院長你的回答讓我們清楚知道還是有\n\n26\n00:09:06,853 --> 00:09:22,865\n還是有所以本市要請教市場開放跟對美的開放投資那這個是國人非常非常的關心因為就陳柏霖剛才所說的投資是不能無端的一個浪費尤其在我們食安方面我們更要謹慎絕對不能退讓這個是我們非常重要而且針對於我們條約締結法\n\n27\n00:09:28,849 --> 00:09:43,245\n第三條第六條第七條第八條的一個規定那麼必須要送到國會跟國會相關要送到國會剛剛你也應許會送到國會就誠如總統所說的跟這個國會有相關的也一定會\n\n28\n00:09:44,826 --> 00:10:08,713\n國會來做審議全民國會的審議跟全民的審議這是我們有第一次就跟美方來表明我國有國會保留相關的法律規範所以本事要告訴你我們都知道委員我補一句話如果有不對再請副院長能夠來修正就是雙方技術性的磋商我們就關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易的便捷化還有數位經濟還有產業的供應鏈的韌性\n\n29\n00:10:13,374 --> 00:10:31,945\n還有經濟安全這幾個大項都是固定的但內容因為美國隨著跟其他各國的談判有一些動態的變化所以他一直在調整這些動態的變化我想我這樣的陳述第一線應該也是謝謝你補充的陳述那本是要提醒政府因為我們看到日本韓國\n\n30\n00:10:34,653 --> 00:10:55,748\n歐盟他們怎麼做呢他們要三年購買7500億的能源他們要投資美國6000億的美元日本5500億投資韓國3500億而且要加能源1000億4500億但是我們看到我們跟他的人口跟GDP日本他們的GDP4.7兆\n\n31\n00:10:57,589 --> 00:11:13,432\n他們的人口1.2億大於我們的五倍韓國他們呢1.7兆他們人口5100億大於我們的兩倍如果我方也要要求被要求也是數千億你認為對台灣是公平的嗎\n\n32\n00:11:14,033 --> 00:11:26,108\n任何有利於我方談判的論述我們都會加以運用那我早上有回答其實我們期待的是一個雙方互利互補雙贏的供應鏈合作我們一再的強調我方供應鏈的價值\n\n33\n00:11:28,971 --> 00:11:37,862\n非常重要因為我們的產業跟我們的民生非常重要所以本下要請教台積電的1650億有包括在你預計要投資美國的數目裡頭嗎報告委員台積電宣布當時1000億的投資其實在我們談判之前\n\n34\n00:11:48,054 --> 00:12:11,395\n這到底這些算不算他目前1650億是應許了甚至還要加碼所以台積電的投資會不會算在你談判的投資額裡頭會不會目前我們民間公司的投資規劃是民間公司他們的決策我們現在談判還在進行當中我們談判還在進行當中我想我現在這邊任何可能大家臆測的數字\n\n35\n00:12:12,876 --> 00:12:27,160\n我們不希望來增加成為談判桌上的變數所以請容許委員讓我們有一定的空間我們的產業跟人民的民生非常的重要所以最後我們說現在政府談判到總結會議我們還要這個總結會議這個時間到底會撐多久\n\n36\n00:12:32,822 --> 00:12:48,220\n那麼同時在總結會議的時候我們的產業我們的疊加關稅到底可以撐多久還是成如財長所說的暫時性的還要等到10月到底我們一個月會損害多少兩個月會損害多少我們這產業等不及\n\n37\n00:12:49,381 --> 00:13:01,517\n我要給卓肥報告換我給你報告因為很緊張我們的工具機手工具機這一次談判最嚴重的就是我們中部地區包括自行車業所有的產業首當其衝企業衝擊了連帶我們整個\n\n38\n00:13:06,643 --> 00:13:29,685\n勞工的公司全部影響到這個是非常嚴肅的一個議題到底我們對這些產業我們要怎麼樣協助所以你們有沒有評估你現在報告的都是目前的形態但是我們的廠家已經很多到期的廠房不敢租到期的倉庫也不敢租我也不敢接單我不知道未來是怎麼樣\n\n39\n00:13:30,626 --> 00:13:55,365\n所以這樣的樣態讓人民非常的辛苦有三個塊第一個談判趕快定案下來跟美國的談判定案下來第一個塊我們送交大院的任性條例的修正草案能夠盡快審議把它定下來第三個塊修正之後行政院用最快的速度編特別預算通過之後就能夠廣泛的對\n\n40\n00:13:59,366 --> 00:14:21,665\n你這麼回答我們針對關稅的衝擊產業勞工都雙雙的重擊我們看到台灣關稅高於日韓台灣的產業競爭力跟毛利都雙數物價指數高毛利少所以等於他的競爭力就少了在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教\n\n41\n00:14:22,466 --> 00:14:37,821\n很多的像我們這個工具機他說我不敢去參展了所以本期在經濟委員會也在強調我們必須要協助我們的產業趕快去參展今年九月的漢諾威的工具機展我想經濟部這邊會可以全力的支持\n\n42\n00:14:38,642 --> 00:14:55,923\n一定要大力的支持本期在經濟委員會跟卓魁也一致的吶喊我們9月份探討委員會長已經跟工具機產業工會已經在討論要怎麼樣去成立一個台灣館所以我想這個部分我們是帶著產業一起到這個德國那邊去做\n\n43\n00:14:56,523 --> 00:15:13,022\n因為要拿到訂單他們非常的勇敢所以政府我第一時間就吶喊一定要好好協助我們產業到全世界各國去參展這非常非常的重要所以一定要落實到卓葵會落實到嗎都在我們的這個支持方案裡面\n\n44\n00:15:15,422 --> 00:15:29,603\n產業的聯合參展幫他開拓多元的市場以及用台灣SELECT台灣的品牌來推動台灣的優質產品所以本期再一句話針對我們的產業民生一定要顧好好我們一起來合作謝謝好謝謝王委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n3850\t9681\t謝謝院會主席 江副院長各位同仁 新聞節的朋友 楊卿瑩發言首先邀請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n24248\t39212\t我今天聽你一直強調說有跟這個在野溝通那麼我要請問一下在整個關稅的談判跟議題上面行政院有跟在野黨的黨團來溝通嗎溝通了什麼事請說說明\n40706\t67169\t我們有一次曾經邀請黨團的幹部去到行政院就這個內容告訴大家當時我們能夠向黨團說明的部分但是我們也希望黨團在聽取說明之後有些很重相關的內容不宜對外宣布所以我們有這個過程但是內容還是在國際談判慣例當中我們還要謹守分際今天算是一個正式公開的說明\n67589\t77587\t但也有所保留這很抱歉 容許我們一定要做有所保留等到協議達成的時候我們一定向國人跟國會來做說明也一定送請國會來審議\n79505\t102220\t好但是到目前為止本席跟人民我們似乎感感受不到行政院有想溝通跟介入訊息在可以介入的範圍內因為大家幾乎都是瞎子摸象到現在你產業的座談會有開一場一場的座談媒體報導也一直在跟隨到底我們的方向\n103081\t123580\t就是看不到行政院對於我們整體性的一個關稅它能夠維持多久我們的農產品會不會全面的開放還是如此如何美豬美牛會不會鬆綁對我們產業整個的衝擊有多大這一些的方向我們看不到\n124080\t146753\t因為我們看到日韓在談判的時候他們可以揭露的時候他們就給國人報告而且反觀我們呢到底我們的疊加關稅到底是怎麼回事呢總統在八月份的記者會都還沒有公開說明所以這次我論點是認為內部的溝通他是不及格的\n147333\t161940\t那所以本席要再請教在上午您有說有跟執政黨的黨團溝通那請問在四月份我們關稅風暴到現在四月份就等於是四個月後才到立法院來報告\n163061\t182684\t我要請問 你透過你們執政黨 民進黨黨團到底溝通了什麼因為我們看到在8月10號的時候在立法院協商的時候整個執政黨的幹部都還在反對行政院到國會來報告\n184145\t213232\t他們說要等到整體的結束之後才能夠來國會來報告而且還嗆說如果有透露那談判不順的時候那談判不好的時候要嗆民 嗆在野黨所以你們要負責所以本席要請教本席要請教也就是在整個談判性的一個過程當中我們看到\n215253\t236720\t如果說談判不順是要在野黨來負責嗎那行政部門不用負責嗎我請首先我要謝謝委員參加過好幾場的產業座談會你也看得出來我們座談會當中那種互動的模式跟我們聽取業者請針對本席的提問因為你說透過你們執政黨\n239881\t259287\t黨團來做溝通8月4號還在嗆還說破壞進行中的談判為談判製造更多不可控的因素早上那段話是說有委員說我們這一年當中跟在野黨團互動幾次我說有兩次以上是到行政院來\n259907\t275340\t平常是透過黨團來跟朝野黨團所以我告訴你因為你四個月後才來報告那就是說因為你有請執政黨的黨團來做溝通那我也坦白告訴你8月4號還嗆在野黨甚至說談判不順你在野黨必須要負責那我請問卓院長談判不管如何怎樣不順也好 順也好\n285248\t286791\t那就成了你的執政黨黨團這麼樣的嗆你認為是在野黨要負責嗎還是你執政黨的\n294062\t318547\t政府不用負責既然叫執政黨負起政治責任更多的責任都是應該的我們繼續討論我非常的樂見您今天到立法院來做報告我們在台中的時候你也告訴本席一句話只要國會來邀請你都非常樂意立即來報告所以也就是\n319207\t337797\t原本的執政黨黨團一再的抹黑在野黨這是不對的這是不對的在此時我們必須要一起來努力我跟執政黨黨團之間並沒有做這樣的要求說延緩來報告我們都期待儘快依照大約你沒有這樣請他們延緩他們這樣子8月4號這個錄影錄音這樣子去嗆\n344201\t368009\t你應該要回去好好的跟他們溝通你必須要跟他們好好的溝通所以你要必須跟你的執政黨的黨團去溝通那麼過去駐美代表沈旅雄先生他講了一句非常有名的這個名言他說什麼都問美國人這就不是\n369269\t391420\t外交官所以相對本事要告訴你一句話什麼要求你都接受這也不叫談判代表所以我認為我們國會的監督跟人民的聲音可以作為你在談判的一個後盾你認為政府會好好的重視跟善用國會的監督跟人民的這個聲音嗎會 我們會聽取業界當然我們也會重視國會給我們任何的建議\n397096\t426416\t我想這個都會在談判當中我們可以轉化成一種談判內容甚至一個對我們的鞭策跟助力好 謝謝卓議員長你跟本席的論點是一樣也就是國會的監督跟人民的聲音是作為談判非常重要的後盾此時此刻我們必須要好好的去團結應對我們這個關稅所以接下來本席要請教對美的加大投資美方的期待到底是什麼\n427977\t441708\t日本需要請問剛剛我們說了照單全收他就不是談判我要謝謝正副院長帶著團隊到美國去但正副院長告訴我們美國的財長說他可能暫時性的會到10月\n442745\t461006\t同時他們每一次的見面都會擴大這個期待那到底請教目前談判到現在他們還有沒有擴大期待請做說明先回應剛剛委員所提我在第一輪實體磋商的時候就跟美方說我國的法律有國會保留條款\n461607\t475874\t我把相關的條約締結法的法條都給了對方所以很清楚的這個談判的結果的協議最後是要送交大院來審議我想我們有非常清楚表達剛剛回應委員的第一個問題那第二是這個我們談判\n478715\t494442\t這個當然希望是要降關稅那降關稅我方也的確希望平衡貿易逆差來說服美方降關稅但是我們也有所原則我們在這個國民健康糧食安全產業利益的原則之上來跟美方來進行磋商\n495382\t524060\t那至於委員所垂詢的有關後續的談判過程當中涉及供應鏈的部分232條款跟投資的部分目前還在談判中所以目前還在談判中針對本席的問題提問目前因為您說每一次見面都會有擴大的期待那目前在談判的當中我們還是進行我剛剛所謂的每一次見面都會擴大期待指的是說隨著因為過去幾個月談判美國是跟各國在談判的\n524980\t545893\t請針對本席的評論那是不是到目前為止還有擴大擴大的期待有沒有目前我們正在磋商的就是供應鏈的合作跟爭取232的優惠因為我們也想要了解美方232關稅的走向謝謝曾副院長你的回答讓我們清楚知道還是有\n546853\t562865\t還是有所以本市要請教市場開放跟對美的開放投資那這個是國人非常非常的關心因為就陳柏霖剛才所說的投資是不能無端的一個浪費尤其在我們食安方面我們更要謹慎絕對不能退讓這個是我們非常重要而且針對於我們條約締結法\n568849\t583245\t第三條第六條第七條第八條的一個規定那麼必須要送到國會跟國會相關要送到國會剛剛你也應許會送到國會就誠如總統所說的跟這個國會有相關的也一定會\n584826\t608713\t國會來做審議全民國會的審議跟全民的審議這是我們有第一次就跟美方來表明我國有國會保留相關的法律規範所以本事要告訴你我們都知道委員我補一句話如果有不對再請副院長能夠來修正就是雙方技術性的磋商我們就關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易的便捷化還有數位經濟還有產業的供應鏈的韌性\n613374\t631945\t還有經濟安全這幾個大項都是固定的但內容因為美國隨著跟其他各國的談判有一些動態的變化所以他一直在調整這些動態的變化我想我這樣的陳述第一線應該也是謝謝你補充的陳述那本是要提醒政府因為我們看到日本 韓國\n634653\t655748\t歐盟他們怎麼做呢他們要三年購買7500億的能源他們要投資美國6000億的美元日本5500億投資韓國3500億而且要加能源1000億4500億但是我們看到我們跟他的人口跟GDP日本他們的GDP4.7兆\n657589\t673432\t他們的人口1.2億大於我們的五倍韓國他們呢1.7兆他們人口5100億大於我們的兩倍如果我方也要要求被要求也是數千億你認為對台灣是公平的嗎\n674033\t686108\t任何有利於我方談判的論述我們都會加以運用那我早上有回答其實我們期待的是一個雙方互利互補雙贏的供應鏈合作我們一再的強調我方供應鏈的價值\n688971\t697862\t非常重要因為我們的產業跟我們的民生非常重要所以本下要請教台積電的1650億有包括在你預計要投資美國的數目裡頭嗎報告委員台積電宣布當時1000億的投資其實在我們談判之前\n708054\t731395\t這到底這些算不算他目前1650億是應許了甚至還要加碼所以台積電的投資會不會算在你談判的投資額裡頭會不會目前我們民間公司的投資規劃是民間公司他們的決策我們現在談判還在進行當中我們談判還在進行當中我想我現在這邊任何可能大家臆測的數字\n732876\t747160\t我們不希望來增加成為談判桌上的變數所以請容許委員讓我們有一定的空間我們的產業跟人民的民生非常的重要所以最後我們說現在政府談判到總結會議我們還要這個總結會議這個時間到底會撐多久\n752822\t768220\t那麼同時在總結會議的時候我們的產業我們的疊加關稅到底可以撐多久還是成如財長所說的暫時性的還要等到10月到底我們一個月會損害多少兩個月會損害多少我們這產業等不及\n769381\t781517\t我要給卓肥報告 換我給你報告因為很緊張我們的工具機 手工具機這一次談判最嚴重的就是我們中部地區包括自行車業所有的產業首當其衝企業衝擊了連帶我們整個\n786643\t809685\t勞工的公司全部影響到這個是非常嚴肅的一個議題到底我們對這些產業我們要怎麼樣協助所以你們有沒有評估你現在報告的都是目前的形態但是我們的廠家已經很多到期的廠房不敢租到期的倉庫也不敢租我也不敢接單我不知道未來是怎麼樣\n810626\t835365\t所以這樣的樣態讓人民非常的辛苦有三個塊第一個 談判趕快定案下來跟美國的談判定案下來第一個塊我們送交大院的任性條例的修正草案能夠盡快審議把它定下來第三個塊修正之後行政院用最快的速度編特別預算通過之後就能夠廣泛的對\n839366\t861665\t你這麼回答我們針對關稅的衝擊產業勞工都雙雙的重擊我們看到台灣關稅高於日韓台灣的產業競爭力跟毛利都雙數物價指數高毛利少所以等於他的競爭力就少了在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教\n862466\t877821\t很多的像我們這個工具機他說我不敢去參展了所以本期在經濟委員會也在強調我們必須要協助我們的產業趕快去參展今年九月的漢諾威的工具機展我想經濟部這邊會可以全力的支持\n878642\t895923\t一定要大力的支持本期在經濟委員會跟卓魁也一致的吶喊我們9月份探討委員會長已經跟工具機產業工會已經在討論要怎麼樣去成立一個台灣館所以我想這個部分我們是帶著產業一起到這個德國那邊去做\n896523\t913022\t因為要拿到訂單他們非常的勇敢所以政府我第一時間就吶喊一定要好好協助我們產業到全世界各國去參展這非常非常的重要所以一定要落實到 卓葵會落實到嗎都在我們的這個支持方案裡面\n915422\t929603\t產業的聯合參展幫他開拓多元的市場以及用台灣SELECT 台灣的品牌來推動台灣的優質產品所以本期再一句話針對我們的產業民生一定要顧好好 我們一起來合作 謝謝好 謝謝王委員\n","txt":"謝謝院會主席 江副院長各位同仁 新聞節的朋友 楊卿瑩發言首先邀請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n我今天聽你一直強調說有跟這個在野溝通那麼我要請問一下在整個關稅的談判跟議題上面行政院有跟在野黨的黨團來溝通嗎溝通了什麼事請說說明\n我們有一次曾經邀請黨團的幹部去到行政院就這個內容告訴大家當時我們能夠向黨團說明的部分但是我們也希望黨團在聽取說明之後有些很重相關的內容不宜對外宣布所以我們有這個過程但是內容還是在國際談判慣例當中我們還要謹守分際今天算是一個正式公開的說明\n但也有所保留這很抱歉 容許我們一定要做有所保留等到協議達成的時候我們一定向國人跟國會來做說明也一定送請國會來審議\n好但是到目前為止本席跟人民我們似乎感感受不到行政院有想溝通跟介入訊息在可以介入的範圍內因為大家幾乎都是瞎子摸象到現在你產業的座談會有開一場一場的座談媒體報導也一直在跟隨到底我們的方向\n就是看不到行政院對於我們整體性的一個關稅它能夠維持多久我們的農產品會不會全面的開放還是如此如何美豬美牛會不會鬆綁對我們產業整個的衝擊有多大這一些的方向我們看不到\n因為我們看到日韓在談判的時候他們可以揭露的時候他們就給國人報告而且反觀我們呢到底我們的疊加關稅到底是怎麼回事呢總統在八月份的記者會都還沒有公開說明所以這次我論點是認為內部的溝通他是不及格的\n那所以本席要再請教在上午您有說有跟執政黨的黨團溝通那請問在四月份我們關稅風暴到現在四月份就等於是四個月後才到立法院來報告\n我要請問 你透過你們執政黨 民進黨黨團到底溝通了什麼因為我們看到在8月10號的時候在立法院協商的時候整個執政黨的幹部都還在反對行政院到國會來報告\n他們說要等到整體的結束之後才能夠來國會來報告而且還嗆說如果有透露那談判不順的時候那談判不好的時候要嗆民 嗆在野黨所以你們要負責所以本席要請教本席要請教也就是在整個談判性的一個過程當中我們看到\n如果說談判不順是要在野黨來負責嗎那行政部門不用負責嗎我請首先我要謝謝委員參加過好幾場的產業座談會你也看得出來我們座談會當中那種互動的模式跟我們聽取業者請針對本席的提問因為你說透過你們執政黨\n黨團來做溝通8月4號還在嗆還說破壞進行中的談判為談判製造更多不可控的因素早上那段話是說有委員說我們這一年當中跟在野黨團互動幾次我說有兩次以上是到行政院來\n平常是透過黨團來跟朝野黨團所以我告訴你因為你四個月後才來報告那就是說因為你有請執政黨的黨團來做溝通那我也坦白告訴你8月4號還嗆在野黨甚至說談判不順你在野黨必須要負責那我請問卓院長談判不管如何怎樣不順也好 順也好\n那就成了你的執政黨黨團這麼樣的嗆你認為是在野黨要負責嗎還是你執政黨的\n政府不用負責既然叫執政黨負起政治責任更多的責任都是應該的我們繼續討論我非常的樂見您今天到立法院來做報告我們在台中的時候你也告訴本席一句話只要國會來邀請你都非常樂意立即來報告所以也就是\n原本的執政黨黨團一再的抹黑在野黨這是不對的這是不對的在此時我們必須要一起來努力我跟執政黨黨團之間並沒有做這樣的要求說延緩來報告我們都期待儘快依照大約你沒有這樣請他們延緩他們這樣子8月4號這個錄影錄音這樣子去嗆\n你應該要回去好好的跟他們溝通你必須要跟他們好好的溝通所以你要必須跟你的執政黨的黨團去溝通那麼過去駐美代表沈旅雄先生他講了一句非常有名的這個名言他說什麼都問美國人這就不是\n外交官所以相對本事要告訴你一句話什麼要求你都接受這也不叫談判代表所以我認為我們國會的監督跟人民的聲音可以作為你在談判的一個後盾你認為政府會好好的重視跟善用國會的監督跟人民的這個聲音嗎會 我們會聽取業界當然我們也會重視國會給我們任何的建議\n我想這個都會在談判當中我們可以轉化成一種談判內容甚至一個對我們的鞭策跟助力好 謝謝卓議員長你跟本席的論點是一樣也就是國會的監督跟人民的聲音是作為談判非常重要的後盾此時此刻我們必須要好好的去團結應對我們這個關稅所以接下來本席要請教對美的加大投資美方的期待到底是什麼\n日本需要請問剛剛我們說了照單全收他就不是談判我要謝謝正副院長帶著團隊到美國去但正副院長告訴我們美國的財長說他可能暫時性的會到10月\n同時他們每一次的見面都會擴大這個期待那到底請教目前談判到現在他們還有沒有擴大期待請做說明先回應剛剛委員所提我在第一輪實體磋商的時候就跟美方說我國的法律有國會保留條款\n我把相關的條約締結法的法條都給了對方所以很清楚的這個談判的結果的協議最後是要送交大院來審議我想我們有非常清楚表達剛剛回應委員的第一個問題那第二是這個我們談判\n這個當然希望是要降關稅那降關稅我方也的確希望平衡貿易逆差來說服美方降關稅但是我們也有所原則我們在這個國民健康糧食安全產業利益的原則之上來跟美方來進行磋商\n那至於委員所垂詢的有關後續的談判過程當中涉及供應鏈的部分232條款跟投資的部分目前還在談判中所以目前還在談判中針對本席的問題提問目前因為您說每一次見面都會有擴大的期待那目前在談判的當中我們還是進行我剛剛所謂的每一次見面都會擴大期待指的是說隨著因為過去幾個月談判美國是跟各國在談判的\n請針對本席的評論那是不是到目前為止還有擴大擴大的期待有沒有目前我們正在磋商的就是供應鏈的合作跟爭取232的優惠因為我們也想要了解美方232關稅的走向謝謝曾副院長你的回答讓我們清楚知道還是有\n還是有所以本市要請教市場開放跟對美的開放投資那這個是國人非常非常的關心因為就陳柏霖剛才所說的投資是不能無端的一個浪費尤其在我們食安方面我們更要謹慎絕對不能退讓這個是我們非常重要而且針對於我們條約締結法\n第三條第六條第七條第八條的一個規定那麼必須要送到國會跟國會相關要送到國會剛剛你也應許會送到國會就誠如總統所說的跟這個國會有相關的也一定會\n國會來做審議全民國會的審議跟全民的審議這是我們有第一次就跟美方來表明我國有國會保留相關的法律規範所以本事要告訴你我們都知道委員我補一句話如果有不對再請副院長能夠來修正就是雙方技術性的磋商我們就關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易的便捷化還有數位經濟還有產業的供應鏈的韌性\n還有經濟安全這幾個大項都是固定的但內容因為美國隨著跟其他各國的談判有一些動態的變化所以他一直在調整這些動態的變化我想我這樣的陳述第一線應該也是謝謝你補充的陳述那本是要提醒政府因為我們看到日本 韓國\n歐盟他們怎麼做呢他們要三年購買7500億的能源他們要投資美國6000億的美元日本5500億投資韓國3500億而且要加能源1000億4500億但是我們看到我們跟他的人口跟GDP日本他們的GDP4.7兆\n他們的人口1.2億大於我們的五倍韓國他們呢1.7兆他們人口5100億大於我們的兩倍如果我方也要要求被要求也是數千億你認為對台灣是公平的嗎\n任何有利於我方談判的論述我們都會加以運用那我早上有回答其實我們期待的是一個雙方互利互補雙贏的供應鏈合作我們一再的強調我方供應鏈的價值\n非常重要因為我們的產業跟我們的民生非常重要所以本下要請教台積電的1650億有包括在你預計要投資美國的數目裡頭嗎報告委員台積電宣布當時1000億的投資其實在我們談判之前\n這到底這些算不算他目前1650億是應許了甚至還要加碼所以台積電的投資會不會算在你談判的投資額裡頭會不會目前我們民間公司的投資規劃是民間公司他們的決策我們現在談判還在進行當中我們談判還在進行當中我想我現在這邊任何可能大家臆測的數字\n我們不希望來增加成為談判桌上的變數所以請容許委員讓我們有一定的空間我們的產業跟人民的民生非常的重要所以最後我們說現在政府談判到總結會議我們還要這個總結會議這個時間到底會撐多久\n那麼同時在總結會議的時候我們的產業我們的疊加關稅到底可以撐多久還是成如財長所說的暫時性的還要等到10月到底我們一個月會損害多少兩個月會損害多少我們這產業等不及\n我要給卓肥報告 換我給你報告因為很緊張我們的工具機 手工具機這一次談判最嚴重的就是我們中部地區包括自行車業所有的產業首當其衝企業衝擊了連帶我們整個\n勞工的公司全部影響到這個是非常嚴肅的一個議題到底我們對這些產業我們要怎麼樣協助所以你們有沒有評估你現在報告的都是目前的形態但是我們的廠家已經很多到期的廠房不敢租到期的倉庫也不敢租我也不敢接單我不知道未來是怎麼樣\n所以這樣的樣態讓人民非常的辛苦有三個塊第一個 談判趕快定案下來跟美國的談判定案下來第一個塊我們送交大院的任性條例的修正草案能夠盡快審議把它定下來第三個塊修正之後行政院用最快的速度編特別預算通過之後就能夠廣泛的對\n你這麼回答我們針對關稅的衝擊產業勞工都雙雙的重擊我們看到台灣關稅高於日韓台灣的產業競爭力跟毛利都雙數物價指數高毛利少所以等於他的競爭力就少了在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教\n很多的像我們這個工具機他說我不敢去參展了所以本期在經濟委員會也在強調我們必須要協助我們的產業趕快去參展今年九月的漢諾威的工具機展我想經濟部這邊會可以全力的支持\n一定要大力的支持本期在經濟委員會跟卓魁也一致的吶喊我們9月份探討委員會長已經跟工具機產業工會已經在討論要怎麼樣去成立一個台灣館所以我想這個部分我們是帶著產業一起到這個德國那邊去做\n因為要拿到訂單他們非常的勇敢所以政府我第一時間就吶喊一定要好好協助我們產業到全世界各國去參展這非常非常的重要所以一定要落實到 卓葵會落實到嗎都在我們的這個支持方案裡面\n產業的聯合參展幫他開拓多元的市場以及用台灣SELECT 台灣的品牌來推動台灣的優質產品所以本期再一句話針對我們的產業民生一定要顧好好 我們一起來合作 謝謝好 謝謝王委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:03.850 --> 00:09.681\n謝謝院會主席江副院長各位同仁新聞節的朋友楊卿瑩發言首先邀請卓院長請卓院長備詢\n\n00:24.248 --> 00:39.212\n我今天聽你一直強調說有跟這個在野溝通那麼我要請問一下在整個關稅的談判跟議題上面行政院有跟在野黨的黨團來溝通嗎溝通了什麼事請說說明\n\n00:40.706 --> 01:07.169\n我們有一次曾經邀請黨團的幹部去到行政院就這個內容告訴大家當時我們能夠向黨團說明的部分但是我們也希望黨團在聽取說明之後有些很重相關的內容不宜對外宣布所以我們有這個過程但是內容還是在國際談判慣例當中我們還要謹守分際今天算是一個正式公開的說明\n\n01:07.589 --> 01:17.587\n但也有所保留這很抱歉容許我們一定要做有所保留等到協議達成的時候我們一定向國人跟國會來做說明也一定送請國會來審議\n\n01:19.505 --> 01:42.220\n好但是到目前為止本席跟人民我們似乎感感受不到行政院有想溝通跟介入訊息在可以介入的範圍內因為大家幾乎都是瞎子摸象到現在你產業的座談會有開一場一場的座談媒體報導也一直在跟隨到底我們的方向\n\n01:43.081 --> 02:03.580\n就是看不到行政院對於我們整體性的一個關稅它能夠維持多久我們的農產品會不會全面的開放還是如此如何美豬美牛會不會鬆綁對我們產業整個的衝擊有多大這一些的方向我們看不到\n\n02:04.080 --> 02:26.753\n因為我們看到日韓在談判的時候他們可以揭露的時候他們就給國人報告而且反觀我們呢到底我們的疊加關稅到底是怎麼回事呢總統在八月份的記者會都還沒有公開說明所以這次我論點是認為內部的溝通他是不及格的\n\n02:27.333 --> 02:41.940\n那所以本席要再請教在上午您有說有跟執政黨的黨團溝通那請問在四月份我們關稅風暴到現在四月份就等於是四個月後才到立法院來報告\n\n02:43.061 --> 03:02.684\n我要請問你透過你們執政黨民進黨黨團到底溝通了什麼因為我們看到在8月10號的時候在立法院協商的時候整個執政黨的幹部都還在反對行政院到國會來報告\n\n03:04.145 --> 03:33.232\n他們說要等到整體的結束之後才能夠來國會來報告而且還嗆說如果有透露那談判不順的時候那談判不好的時候要嗆民嗆在野黨所以你們要負責所以本席要請教本席要請教也就是在整個談判性的一個過程當中我們看到\n\n03:35.253 --> 03:56.720\n如果說談判不順是要在野黨來負責嗎那行政部門不用負責嗎我請首先我要謝謝委員參加過好幾場的產業座談會你也看得出來我們座談會當中那種互動的模式跟我們聽取業者請針對本席的提問因為你說透過你們執政黨\n\n03:59.881 --> 04:19.287\n黨團來做溝通8月4號還在嗆還說破壞進行中的談判為談判製造更多不可控的因素早上那段話是說有委員說我們這一年當中跟在野黨團互動幾次我說有兩次以上是到行政院來\n\n04:19.907 --> 04:35.340\n平常是透過黨團來跟朝野黨團所以我告訴你因為你四個月後才來報告那就是說因為你有請執政黨的黨團來做溝通那我也坦白告訴你8月4號還嗆在野黨甚至說談判不順你在野黨必須要負責那我請問卓院長談判不管如何怎樣不順也好順也好\n\n04:45.248 --> 04:46.791\n那就成了你的執政黨黨團這麼樣的嗆你認為是在野黨要負責嗎還是你執政黨的\n\n04:54.062 --> 05:18.547\n政府不用負責既然叫執政黨負起政治責任更多的責任都是應該的我們繼續討論我非常的樂見您今天到立法院來做報告我們在台中的時候你也告訴本席一句話只要國會來邀請你都非常樂意立即來報告所以也就是\n\n05:19.207 --> 05:37.797\n原本的執政黨黨團一再的抹黑在野黨這是不對的這是不對的在此時我們必須要一起來努力我跟執政黨黨團之間並沒有做這樣的要求說延緩來報告我們都期待儘快依照大約你沒有這樣請他們延緩他們這樣子8月4號這個錄影錄音這樣子去嗆\n\n05:44.201 --> 06:08.009\n你應該要回去好好的跟他們溝通你必須要跟他們好好的溝通所以你要必須跟你的執政黨的黨團去溝通那麼過去駐美代表沈旅雄先生他講了一句非常有名的這個名言他說什麼都問美國人這就不是\n\n06:09.269 --> 06:31.420\n外交官所以相對本事要告訴你一句話什麼要求你都接受這也不叫談判代表所以我認為我們國會的監督跟人民的聲音可以作為你在談判的一個後盾你認為政府會好好的重視跟善用國會的監督跟人民的這個聲音嗎會我們會聽取業界當然我們也會重視國會給我們任何的建議\n\n06:37.096 --> 07:06.416\n我想這個都會在談判當中我們可以轉化成一種談判內容甚至一個對我們的鞭策跟助力好謝謝卓議員長你跟本席的論點是一樣也就是國會的監督跟人民的聲音是作為談判非常重要的後盾此時此刻我們必須要好好的去團結應對我們這個關稅所以接下來本席要請教對美的加大投資美方的期待到底是什麼\n\n07:07.977 --> 07:21.708\n日本需要請問剛剛我們說了照單全收他就不是談判我要謝謝正副院長帶著團隊到美國去但正副院長告訴我們美國的財長說他可能暫時性的會到10月\n\n07:22.745 --> 07:41.006\n同時他們每一次的見面都會擴大這個期待那到底請教目前談判到現在他們還有沒有擴大期待請做說明先回應剛剛委員所提我在第一輪實體磋商的時候就跟美方說我國的法律有國會保留條款\n\n07:41.607 --> 07:55.874\n我把相關的條約締結法的法條都給了對方所以很清楚的這個談判的結果的協議最後是要送交大院來審議我想我們有非常清楚表達剛剛回應委員的第一個問題那第二是這個我們談判\n\n07:58.715 --> 08:14.442\n這個當然希望是要降關稅那降關稅我方也的確希望平衡貿易逆差來說服美方降關稅但是我們也有所原則我們在這個國民健康糧食安全產業利益的原則之上來跟美方來進行磋商\n\n08:15.382 --> 08:44.060\n那至於委員所垂詢的有關後續的談判過程當中涉及供應鏈的部分232條款跟投資的部分目前還在談判中所以目前還在談判中針對本席的問題提問目前因為您說每一次見面都會有擴大的期待那目前在談判的當中我們還是進行我剛剛所謂的每一次見面都會擴大期待指的是說隨著因為過去幾個月談判美國是跟各國在談判的\n\n08:44.980 --> 09:05.893\n請針對本席的評論那是不是到目前為止還有擴大擴大的期待有沒有目前我們正在磋商的就是供應鏈的合作跟爭取232的優惠因為我們也想要了解美方232關稅的走向謝謝曾副院長你的回答讓我們清楚知道還是有\n\n09:06.853 --> 09:22.865\n還是有所以本市要請教市場開放跟對美的開放投資那這個是國人非常非常的關心因為就陳柏霖剛才所說的投資是不能無端的一個浪費尤其在我們食安方面我們更要謹慎絕對不能退讓這個是我們非常重要而且針對於我們條約締結法\n\n09:28.849 --> 09:43.245\n第三條第六條第七條第八條的一個規定那麼必須要送到國會跟國會相關要送到國會剛剛你也應許會送到國會就誠如總統所說的跟這個國會有相關的也一定會\n\n09:44.826 --> 10:08.713\n國會來做審議全民國會的審議跟全民的審議這是我們有第一次就跟美方來表明我國有國會保留相關的法律規範所以本事要告訴你我們都知道委員我補一句話如果有不對再請副院長能夠來修正就是雙方技術性的磋商我們就關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易的便捷化還有數位經濟還有產業的供應鏈的韌性\n\n10:13.374 --> 10:31.945\n還有經濟安全這幾個大項都是固定的但內容因為美國隨著跟其他各國的談判有一些動態的變化所以他一直在調整這些動態的變化我想我這樣的陳述第一線應該也是謝謝你補充的陳述那本是要提醒政府因為我們看到日本韓國\n\n10:34.653 --> 10:55.748\n歐盟他們怎麼做呢他們要三年購買7500億的能源他們要投資美國6000億的美元日本5500億投資韓國3500億而且要加能源1000億4500億但是我們看到我們跟他的人口跟GDP日本他們的GDP4.7兆\n\n10:57.589 --> 11:13.432\n他們的人口1.2億大於我們的五倍韓國他們呢1.7兆他們人口5100億大於我們的兩倍如果我方也要要求被要求也是數千億你認為對台灣是公平的嗎\n\n11:14.033 --> 11:26.108\n任何有利於我方談判的論述我們都會加以運用那我早上有回答其實我們期待的是一個雙方互利互補雙贏的供應鏈合作我們一再的強調我方供應鏈的價值\n\n11:28.971 --> 11:37.862\n非常重要因為我們的產業跟我們的民生非常重要所以本下要請教台積電的1650億有包括在你預計要投資美國的數目裡頭嗎報告委員台積電宣布當時1000億的投資其實在我們談判之前\n\n11:48.054 --> 12:11.395\n這到底這些算不算他目前1650億是應許了甚至還要加碼所以台積電的投資會不會算在你談判的投資額裡頭會不會目前我們民間公司的投資規劃是民間公司他們的決策我們現在談判還在進行當中我們談判還在進行當中我想我現在這邊任何可能大家臆測的數字\n\n12:12.876 --> 12:27.160\n我們不希望來增加成為談判桌上的變數所以請容許委員讓我們有一定的空間我們的產業跟人民的民生非常的重要所以最後我們說現在政府談判到總結會議我們還要這個總結會議這個時間到底會撐多久\n\n12:32.822 --> 12:48.220\n那麼同時在總結會議的時候我們的產業我們的疊加關稅到底可以撐多久還是成如財長所說的暫時性的還要等到10月到底我們一個月會損害多少兩個月會損害多少我們這產業等不及\n\n12:49.381 --> 13:01.517\n我要給卓肥報告換我給你報告因為很緊張我們的工具機手工具機這一次談判最嚴重的就是我們中部地區包括自行車業所有的產業首當其衝企業衝擊了連帶我們整個\n\n13:06.643 --> 13:29.685\n勞工的公司全部影響到這個是非常嚴肅的一個議題到底我們對這些產業我們要怎麼樣協助所以你們有沒有評估你現在報告的都是目前的形態但是我們的廠家已經很多到期的廠房不敢租到期的倉庫也不敢租我也不敢接單我不知道未來是怎麼樣\n\n13:30.626 --> 13:55.365\n所以這樣的樣態讓人民非常的辛苦有三個塊第一個談判趕快定案下來跟美國的談判定案下來第一個塊我們送交大院的任性條例的修正草案能夠盡快審議把它定下來第三個塊修正之後行政院用最快的速度編特別預算通過之後就能夠廣泛的對\n\n13:59.366 --> 14:21.665\n你這麼回答我們針對關稅的衝擊產業勞工都雙雙的重擊我們看到台灣關稅高於日韓台灣的產業競爭力跟毛利都雙數物價指數高毛利少所以等於他的競爭力就少了在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教\n\n14:22.466 --> 14:37.821\n很多的像我們這個工具機他說我不敢去參展了所以本期在經濟委員會也在強調我們必須要協助我們的產業趕快去參展今年九月的漢諾威的工具機展我想經濟部這邊會可以全力的支持\n\n14:38.642 --> 14:55.923\n一定要大力的支持本期在經濟委員會跟卓魁也一致的吶喊我們9月份探討委員會長已經跟工具機產業工會已經在討論要怎麼樣去成立一個台灣館所以我想這個部分我們是帶著產業一起到這個德國那邊去做\n\n14:56.523 --> 15:13.022\n因為要拿到訂單他們非常的勇敢所以政府我第一時間就吶喊一定要好好協助我們產業到全世界各國去參展這非常非常的重要所以一定要落實到卓葵會落實到嗎都在我們的這個支持方案裡面\n\n15:15.422 --> 15:29.603\n產業的聯合參展幫他開拓多元的市場以及用台灣SELECT台灣的品牌來推動台灣的優質產品所以本期再一句話針對我們的產業民生一定要顧好好我們一起來合作謝謝好謝謝王委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":3.85,"end":9.681,"text":"謝謝院會主席 江副院長各位同仁 新聞節的朋友 楊卿瑩發言首先邀請卓院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":24.248,"end":39.212,"text":"我今天聽你一直強調說有跟這個在野溝通那麼我要請問一下在整個關稅的談判跟議題上面行政院有跟在野黨的黨團來溝通嗎溝通了什麼事請說說明"},{"start":40.706,"end":67.169,"text":"我們有一次曾經邀請黨團的幹部去到行政院就這個內容告訴大家當時我們能夠向黨團說明的部分但是我們也希望黨團在聽取說明之後有些很重相關的內容不宜對外宣布所以我們有這個過程但是內容還是在國際談判慣例當中我們還要謹守分際今天算是一個正式公開的說明"},{"start":67.589,"end":77.587,"text":"但也有所保留這很抱歉 容許我們一定要做有所保留等到協議達成的時候我們一定向國人跟國會來做說明也一定送請國會來審議"},{"start":79.505,"end":102.22,"text":"好但是到目前為止本席跟人民我們似乎感感受不到行政院有想溝通跟介入訊息在可以介入的範圍內因為大家幾乎都是瞎子摸象到現在你產業的座談會有開一場一場的座談媒體報導也一直在跟隨到底我們的方向"},{"start":103.081,"end":123.58,"text":"就是看不到行政院對於我們整體性的一個關稅它能夠維持多久我們的農產品會不會全面的開放還是如此如何美豬美牛會不會鬆綁對我們產業整個的衝擊有多大這一些的方向我們看不到"},{"start":124.08,"end":146.753,"text":"因為我們看到日韓在談判的時候他們可以揭露的時候他們就給國人報告而且反觀我們呢到底我們的疊加關稅到底是怎麼回事呢總統在八月份的記者會都還沒有公開說明所以這次我論點是認為內部的溝通他是不及格的"},{"start":147.333,"end":161.94,"text":"那所以本席要再請教在上午您有說有跟執政黨的黨團溝通那請問在四月份我們關稅風暴到現在四月份就等於是四個月後才到立法院來報告"},{"start":163.061,"end":182.684,"text":"我要請問 你透過你們執政黨 民進黨黨團到底溝通了什麼因為我們看到在8月10號的時候在立法院協商的時候整個執政黨的幹部都還在反對行政院到國會來報告"},{"start":184.145,"end":213.232,"text":"他們說要等到整體的結束之後才能夠來國會來報告而且還嗆說如果有透露那談判不順的時候那談判不好的時候要嗆民 嗆在野黨所以你們要負責所以本席要請教本席要請教也就是在整個談判性的一個過程當中我們看到"},{"start":215.253,"end":236.72,"text":"如果說談判不順是要在野黨來負責嗎那行政部門不用負責嗎我請首先我要謝謝委員參加過好幾場的產業座談會你也看得出來我們座談會當中那種互動的模式跟我們聽取業者請針對本席的提問因為你說透過你們執政黨"},{"start":239.881,"end":259.287,"text":"黨團來做溝通8月4號還在嗆還說破壞進行中的談判為談判製造更多不可控的因素早上那段話是說有委員說我們這一年當中跟在野黨團互動幾次我說有兩次以上是到行政院來"},{"start":259.907,"end":275.34,"text":"平常是透過黨團來跟朝野黨團所以我告訴你因為你四個月後才來報告那就是說因為你有請執政黨的黨團來做溝通那我也坦白告訴你8月4號還嗆在野黨甚至說談判不順你在野黨必須要負責那我請問卓院長談判不管如何怎樣不順也好 順也好"},{"start":285.248,"end":286.791,"text":"那就成了你的執政黨黨團這麼樣的嗆你認為是在野黨要負責嗎還是你執政黨的"},{"start":294.062,"end":318.547,"text":"政府不用負責既然叫執政黨負起政治責任更多的責任都是應該的我們繼續討論我非常的樂見您今天到立法院來做報告我們在台中的時候你也告訴本席一句話只要國會來邀請你都非常樂意立即來報告所以也就是"},{"start":319.207,"end":337.797,"text":"原本的執政黨黨團一再的抹黑在野黨這是不對的這是不對的在此時我們必須要一起來努力我跟執政黨黨團之間並沒有做這樣的要求說延緩來報告我們都期待儘快依照大約你沒有這樣請他們延緩他們這樣子8月4號這個錄影錄音這樣子去嗆"},{"start":344.201,"end":368.009,"text":"你應該要回去好好的跟他們溝通你必須要跟他們好好的溝通所以你要必須跟你的執政黨的黨團去溝通那麼過去駐美代表沈旅雄先生他講了一句非常有名的這個名言他說什麼都問美國人這就不是"},{"start":369.269,"end":391.42,"text":"外交官所以相對本事要告訴你一句話什麼要求你都接受這也不叫談判代表所以我認為我們國會的監督跟人民的聲音可以作為你在談判的一個後盾你認為政府會好好的重視跟善用國會的監督跟人民的這個聲音嗎會 我們會聽取業界當然我們也會重視國會給我們任何的建議"},{"start":397.096,"end":426.416,"text":"我想這個都會在談判當中我們可以轉化成一種談判內容甚至一個對我們的鞭策跟助力好 謝謝卓議員長你跟本席的論點是一樣也就是國會的監督跟人民的聲音是作為談判非常重要的後盾此時此刻我們必須要好好的去團結應對我們這個關稅所以接下來本席要請教對美的加大投資美方的期待到底是什麼"},{"start":427.977,"end":441.708,"text":"日本需要請問剛剛我們說了照單全收他就不是談判我要謝謝正副院長帶著團隊到美國去但正副院長告訴我們美國的財長說他可能暫時性的會到10月"},{"start":442.745,"end":461.006,"text":"同時他們每一次的見面都會擴大這個期待那到底請教目前談判到現在他們還有沒有擴大期待請做說明先回應剛剛委員所提我在第一輪實體磋商的時候就跟美方說我國的法律有國會保留條款"},{"start":461.607,"end":475.874,"text":"我把相關的條約締結法的法條都給了對方所以很清楚的這個談判的結果的協議最後是要送交大院來審議我想我們有非常清楚表達剛剛回應委員的第一個問題那第二是這個我們談判"},{"start":478.715,"end":494.442,"text":"這個當然希望是要降關稅那降關稅我方也的確希望平衡貿易逆差來說服美方降關稅但是我們也有所原則我們在這個國民健康糧食安全產業利益的原則之上來跟美方來進行磋商"},{"start":495.382,"end":524.06,"text":"那至於委員所垂詢的有關後續的談判過程當中涉及供應鏈的部分232條款跟投資的部分目前還在談判中所以目前還在談判中針對本席的問題提問目前因為您說每一次見面都會有擴大的期待那目前在談判的當中我們還是進行我剛剛所謂的每一次見面都會擴大期待指的是說隨著因為過去幾個月談判美國是跟各國在談判的"},{"start":524.98,"end":545.893,"text":"請針對本席的評論那是不是到目前為止還有擴大擴大的期待有沒有目前我們正在磋商的就是供應鏈的合作跟爭取232的優惠因為我們也想要了解美方232關稅的走向謝謝曾副院長你的回答讓我們清楚知道還是有"},{"start":546.853,"end":562.865,"text":"還是有所以本市要請教市場開放跟對美的開放投資那這個是國人非常非常的關心因為就陳柏霖剛才所說的投資是不能無端的一個浪費尤其在我們食安方面我們更要謹慎絕對不能退讓這個是我們非常重要而且針對於我們條約締結法"},{"start":568.849,"end":583.245,"text":"第三條第六條第七條第八條的一個規定那麼必須要送到國會跟國會相關要送到國會剛剛你也應許會送到國會就誠如總統所說的跟這個國會有相關的也一定會"},{"start":584.826,"end":608.713,"text":"國會來做審議全民國會的審議跟全民的審議這是我們有第一次就跟美方來表明我國有國會保留相關的法律規範所以本事要告訴你我們都知道委員我補一句話如果有不對再請副院長能夠來修正就是雙方技術性的磋商我們就關稅非關稅貿易障礙貿易的便捷化還有數位經濟還有產業的供應鏈的韌性"},{"start":613.374,"end":631.945,"text":"還有經濟安全這幾個大項都是固定的但內容因為美國隨著跟其他各國的談判有一些動態的變化所以他一直在調整這些動態的變化我想我這樣的陳述第一線應該也是謝謝你補充的陳述那本是要提醒政府因為我們看到日本 韓國"},{"start":634.653,"end":655.748,"text":"歐盟他們怎麼做呢他們要三年購買7500億的能源他們要投資美國6000億的美元日本5500億投資韓國3500億而且要加能源1000億4500億但是我們看到我們跟他的人口跟GDP日本他們的GDP4.7兆"},{"start":657.589,"end":673.432,"text":"他們的人口1.2億大於我們的五倍韓國他們呢1.7兆他們人口5100億大於我們的兩倍如果我方也要要求被要求也是數千億你認為對台灣是公平的嗎"},{"start":674.033,"end":686.108,"text":"任何有利於我方談判的論述我們都會加以運用那我早上有回答其實我們期待的是一個雙方互利互補雙贏的供應鏈合作我們一再的強調我方供應鏈的價值"},{"start":688.971,"end":697.862,"text":"非常重要因為我們的產業跟我們的民生非常重要所以本下要請教台積電的1650億有包括在你預計要投資美國的數目裡頭嗎報告委員台積電宣布當時1000億的投資其實在我們談判之前"},{"start":708.054,"end":731.395,"text":"這到底這些算不算他目前1650億是應許了甚至還要加碼所以台積電的投資會不會算在你談判的投資額裡頭會不會目前我們民間公司的投資規劃是民間公司他們的決策我們現在談判還在進行當中我們談判還在進行當中我想我現在這邊任何可能大家臆測的數字"},{"start":732.876,"end":747.16,"text":"我們不希望來增加成為談判桌上的變數所以請容許委員讓我們有一定的空間我們的產業跟人民的民生非常的重要所以最後我們說現在政府談判到總結會議我們還要這個總結會議這個時間到底會撐多久"},{"start":752.822,"end":768.22,"text":"那麼同時在總結會議的時候我們的產業我們的疊加關稅到底可以撐多久還是成如財長所說的暫時性的還要等到10月到底我們一個月會損害多少兩個月會損害多少我們這產業等不及"},{"start":769.381,"end":781.517,"text":"我要給卓肥報告 換我給你報告因為很緊張我們的工具機 手工具機這一次談判最嚴重的就是我們中部地區包括自行車業所有的產業首當其衝企業衝擊了連帶我們整個"},{"start":786.643,"end":809.685,"text":"勞工的公司全部影響到這個是非常嚴肅的一個議題到底我們對這些產業我們要怎麼樣協助所以你們有沒有評估你現在報告的都是目前的形態但是我們的廠家已經很多到期的廠房不敢租到期的倉庫也不敢租我也不敢接單我不知道未來是怎麼樣"},{"start":810.626,"end":835.365,"text":"所以這樣的樣態讓人民非常的辛苦有三個塊第一個 談判趕快定案下來跟美國的談判定案下來第一個塊我們送交大院的任性條例的修正草案能夠盡快審議把它定下來第三個塊修正之後行政院用最快的速度編特別預算通過之後就能夠廣泛的對"},{"start":839.366,"end":861.665,"text":"你這麼回答我們針對關稅的衝擊產業勞工都雙雙的重擊我們看到台灣關稅高於日韓台灣的產業競爭力跟毛利都雙數物價指數高毛利少所以等於他的競爭力就少了在這樣的一個情況之下本席要請教"},{"start":862.466,"end":877.821,"text":"很多的像我們這個工具機他說我不敢去參展了所以本期在經濟委員會也在強調我們必須要協助我們的產業趕快去參展今年九月的漢諾威的工具機展我想經濟部這邊會可以全力的支持"},{"start":878.642,"end":895.923,"text":"一定要大力的支持本期在經濟委員會跟卓魁也一致的吶喊我們9月份探討委員會長已經跟工具機產業工會已經在討論要怎麼樣去成立一個台灣館所以我想這個部分我們是帶著產業一起到這個德國那邊去做"},{"start":896.523,"end":913.022,"text":"因為要拿到訂單他們非常的勇敢所以政府我第一時間就吶喊一定要好好協助我們產業到全世界各國去參展這非常非常的重要所以一定要落實到 卓葵會落實到嗎都在我們的這個支持方案裡面"},{"start":915.422,"end":929.603,"text":"產業的聯合參展幫他開拓多元的市場以及用台灣SELECT 台灣的品牌來推動台灣的優質產品所以本期再一句話針對我們的產業民生一定要顧好好 我們一起來合作 謝謝好 謝謝王委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":595,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（16時34分）謝謝院會主席江副院長。各位同仁、新聞界的朋友，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請卓院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長你好。我今天聽你一直強調有跟在野溝通，我要請問一下在整個關稅談判跟議題上面，行政院有跟在野黨的黨團來溝通嗎？溝通了什麼事？請做說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有一次曾經邀請黨團幹部到行政院，就這個內容告訴他當時我們能夠向黨團說明的部分，但是我們也希望黨團在聽取說明之後，有些相關的內容不宜對外宣布，所以我們有這個過程，但是內容還是在國際談判慣例當中，我們還要謹守分際，今天算是一個正式公開的說明，但也有所保留，這很抱歉，容許我們一定要有所保留，等到協議達成的時候，我們一定向國人跟國會來做說明，也一定送請國會來審議。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，但是到目前為止，本席跟人民似乎感受不到行政院有想溝通跟揭露訊息，在可以揭露的範圍內，因為大家幾乎都是瞎子摸象，到現在，你產業的座談會有開，一場一場的座談，媒體報導也一直在跟追，到底我們的方向……就是看不到行政院對於整體性的關稅，能夠維持多久？我們的農產品會不會全面開放？還是如此、如何？美豬、美牛會不會鬆綁？對我們產業整個的衝擊有多大？這一些的方向我們看不到，因為我們看到日韓在談判的時候，他們可以揭露的時候，他們就給國人報告，而且反觀我們，到底我們的疊加關稅是怎麼回事呢？總統在8月份的記者會都還沒有公開說明，所以這次我的論點是認為內部的溝通是不及格的。所以本席要再請教，在上午你說有跟執政黨的黨團溝通，請問從4月份關稅風暴到現在，4月份就等於是4個月後才到立法院來報告，我要請問，你透過你們執政的民進黨黨團到底溝通了什麼？因為我們看到8月4號在立法院協商的時候，整個執政黨的幹部都還在反對行政院到國會來報告，他們說要等到整體結束之後才能夠來國會報告，而且還嗆說如果有透露，那談判不順的時候、談判不好的時候，嗆在野黨說你們要負責。所以本席要請教，在整個談判的過程當中，我們看到如果談判不順，是要在野黨來負責嗎？那行政部門不用負責嗎？我請卓院長來說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：首先我要謝謝委員參加過好幾場的產業座談會，你也看得出來我們的座談會當中，那種互動的模式跟我們聽取業者……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問，因為你說透過你們執政黨的黨團來做溝通……"],["卓院長榮泰：早上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：8月4號還在嗆，還說破壞進行中的談判，為談判製造更多不可控的因素，可以如此嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，早上的那段話是有委員說我們這一年當中跟在野黨團互動幾次，我說有2次以上是到行政院來，平常是透過朝野黨團，不是說……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以我告訴你，因為你4個月後才來報告，就是說因為你有請執政黨的黨團來做溝通……"],["卓院長榮泰：我有請在野黨……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我也坦白告訴你，8月4號還嗆在野黨……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有請朝野黨團……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：甚至說談判不順，你在野黨必須要負責……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有請……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那我請問卓院長，談判不管如何怎樣，不順也好、順也好，那就成了……執政黨黨團這麼嗆，你認為是在野黨要負責嗎？還是你執政黨的政府不用負責？請做說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：既然叫執政黨，負起政治責任、更多的責任都是應該的，我們就朝這個方向……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，就你一句「更多」，我們繼續討論。我非常樂見您今天到立法院來做報告，我們在臺中的時候，你也告訴本席一句話，只要國會邀請，你都非常樂意立即來報告，所以也就是原本的執政黨黨團一再地抹黑在野黨，這是不對的，此時我們必須要一起來努力。接下來本席要告訴你的……"],["卓院長榮泰：我跟執政黨黨團之間並沒有做這樣的要求說延緩來報告，我們都期待儘快依照大院排定……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你沒有請他們延緩，他們這樣子8月4號，這有錄影、錄音，這樣子嗆，你應該要回去好好地跟他們溝通。"],["卓院長榮泰：我也跟韓院長表示過……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你必須要跟他們好好地溝通。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們都願意配合大會的議程安排，隨時準備好來報告。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以你必須要跟你的執政黨黨團溝通。","過去駐美代表沈呂巡先生講了一句非常有名的名言，他說：「什麼都問美國人，這就不是外交官」。所以相對本席要告訴你一句話「什麼要求你都接受，這也不叫談判代表」，所以我認為國會的監督及人民的聲音可以作為你們在談判的後盾，你認為政府會好好的重視與善用國會的監督及人民的聲音嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：會，我們會聽取業界，當然我們也會重視國會給我們任何的建議，我想這個都會在談判當中，我們可以轉化成一種談判內容，甚至是一個對我們的鞭策與助力。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，謝謝卓院長。你跟本席的論點一樣，也就是國會的監督跟人民的聲音是作為談判非常重要的後盾……"],["鄭副院長麗君：我這邊跟委員補充……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：此時此刻我們必須要好好地團結來應對關稅。"],["鄭副院長麗君：跟委員補充，我們……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以接下來本席要請教對美的加大投資，美方的期待到底是什麼？本席要請問，剛剛我們說照單全收就不是談判，我要謝謝鄭副院長帶著團隊到美國，但鄭副院長告訴我們，美國的財長說暫時性的關稅可能會到10月，同時他們每一次的見面都會擴大期待，請教談判到現在到底他們還有沒有擴大期待，請做說明。"],["鄭副院長麗君：我先回應剛剛委員所提，我在第一輪實體磋商的時候就跟美方說，我國的法律有國會保留條款，我把相關的條約、締結法的法條都給了對方，所以很清楚的，這個談判結果的協議最後是要送交大院來審議……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝，因為我們……"],["鄭副院長麗君：我想我也非常清楚表達，這是回應剛剛委員的第一個問題。第二，我們談判當然希望是要降關稅，那降關稅，我方也的確希望平衡貿易逆差來說服美方降關稅，但是我們也有所原則，我們在國民健康、糧食安全、產業利益的原則之上來與美方進行磋商。至於委員所垂詢的，有關後續的談判過程當中涉及供應鏈的部分、232條款跟投資的部分，目前還在談判中，所以這個部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以目前還在談判中，針對本席的問題提問，因為您說每一次見面都會擴大期待，那目前在談判當中，我們還是進行式當中……"],["鄭副院長麗君：我剛剛所謂的每一次見面都會擴大期待指的是，隨著……因為過去幾個月，美國是跟各國在談判的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問，是不是到目前為止還有擴大的期待？有沒有？"],["鄭副院長麗君：目前我們正在磋商的就是供應鏈的合作跟爭取232條款的優惠，因為我們也想要了解美方232關稅的走向，以及要爭取對等的下修……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝鄭副院長，你的回答讓我們清楚知道還是有、還是有……"],["鄭副院長麗君：還在持續磋商中。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要請教市場開放跟對美的開放投資，這個國人非常非常的關心，因為就誠如您剛才所說的，投資是不能無端的讓利，尤其在食安方面，我們更要謹慎，絕對不能退讓，這個對我們非常重要，而且針對我們條約締結法第三條、第六條、第七條、第八條的規定，與國會相關必須要送到國會，剛剛你也應許會送到國會。就誠如總統所說的，與國會有相關的也一定會到國會來做審議……"],["鄭副院長麗君：對，關稅也會送到國會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：國會的審議跟全民的審議……"],["鄭副院長麗君：當然，一定的，這是我們第一次就跟美方表明我國有國會保留相關的法律規範，我們一定依法來……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要告訴你，我們都知道……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我補一句話，如果有不對，再請副院長能夠來修正。就是雙方技術性的磋商，我們就關稅、非關稅貿易障礙、貿易的便捷化、數位經濟、產業供應鏈的韌性，還有經濟安全等，這幾個大項都是固定的，但內容因為美國隨著跟其他各國的談判有一些動態的變化……"],["鄭副院長麗君：是。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以它一直在調整這些動態的變化，我想我這樣的陳述，第一線應該也是……"],["鄭副院長麗君：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：謝謝你補充的陳述。本席要提醒政府，因為我們看到日本、韓國、歐盟，歐盟他們怎麼做呢？他們要3年購買7,500億的能源，他們要投資美國6,000美元，日本投資5,500億，韓國3,500億，而且還加能源1,000億，共4,500億。但是我們看到，我們跟他們的人口及GDP比較起來，日本的GDP是4.7兆，人口是1.2億，大於我們5倍；韓國的GDP是1.7兆，人口是5,100萬，大於我們2倍，如果我方也被要求數千億，你認為對臺灣是公平的嗎？"],["鄭副院長麗君：任何有利於我方談判的論述，我們都會加以運用，我早上有回答，其實我們期待的是一個雙方互利互補、雙贏的供應鏈合作，我們也一再強調……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，雙方互利。"],["鄭副院長麗君：我方供應鏈的價值，臺美合作未來在戰略上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：非常重要，因為我們的產業跟我們的民生非常重要。"],["鄭副院長麗君：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要請教，台積電的1,650億有包括在你預計要投資美國的數目裡面嗎？"],["鄭副院長麗君：報告委員，台積電當時宣布1,000億的投資其實是在我們談判之前……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以到底這些算不算？目前1,650億它是應許了，甚至還要加碼，所以台積電的投資會不會算在你談判的投資額裡頭，會不會？"],["鄭副院長麗君：民間公司的投資規劃是民間公司他們的決策，我們現在談判還在進行當中……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有沒有？我請教。"],["鄭副院長麗君：我們談判還在進行當中，我想現在對於任何大家臆測的數字，我們都不希望變成增加談判桌上的變數，所以請容許委員讓我們有一定的談判空間。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，本席提醒我們的產業跟人民的民生非常重要。","最後，我們說現在政府談判到總結會議，這個時間到底會撐多久？同時，在總結會議的時候，我們的產業、我們的疊加關稅到底可以撐多久？還是誠如財長所說的，這是暫時性的，還要等到10月，到底我們一個月會損害多少、兩個月會損害多少？我們的產業等不及耶！我要跟卓揆報告，換我跟你報告，因為很緊張，我們的工具機、手工具，受到這次談判影響最嚴重的就是我們中部地區，包括自行車業，所有的產業首當其衝，企業受衝擊了，連帶我們整個勞工的工時全部受到影響，這是非常嚴肅的議題，到底我們對這些產業要怎麼樣協助，所以你們有沒有評估？你現在報告的都是目前的型態，但是已經有很多廠家是到期的廠房不敢租，到期的倉庫也不敢租，也不敢接單，因為不知道未來是怎麼樣，所以這樣的樣態讓人民非常地辛苦。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們有三個「快」，第一個快，跟美國的談判趕快定案下來；第二個快，我們送交大院的韌性條例的修正草案能夠儘快審議，把它定下來；第三個快，修正之後，行政院要用最快的速度編特別預算，通過之後，就能夠廣泛地對產業來做支持，所以一定要快快快、三個快。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：卓揆，你這麼回答，我們針對關稅的衝擊，產業、勞工都雙雙受到重擊，我們看到臺灣關稅高於日韓，臺灣的產業競爭力跟毛利都雙輸，物價指數高、毛利少，所以等於它的競爭力就少了。在這樣的情況之下，本席要請教，像我們的工具機，他們說我不敢去參展了，所以本席在經濟委員會也一再強調，我們必須要協助我們的產業趕快去參展。"],["鄭副院長麗君：對，今年9月的漢諾威工具機展，我想經濟部這邊會給予全力的支持。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們會大力地支持。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：一定要大力地支持……"],["何次長晉滄：是，我們9月份……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席在經濟委員會也一直跟卓揆在吶喊。"],["何次長晉滄：是，跟委員報告，9月份的漢諾威展，我們跟工具機產業公會已經在討論要怎麼樣去成立一個臺灣館，所以這個部分，我們是帶著產業一起到德國那邊去做市場拓銷。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為要拿到訂單，他們非常地勇敢，所以我第一時間就吶喊，政府一定要好好協助我們的產業到全世界各國去參展，這個非常、非常地重要，所以一定要落實到，卓揆，會落實到嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：都在我們的支持方案裡面，產業的聯合參展幫大家開拓多元的市場，以及用TAIWAN SELECT，也就是用臺灣的品牌來推動臺灣的優質產品，都是我們一系列的作法。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席再一句話，針對我們的產業、民生一定要顧好。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，我們一起來合作，謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝楊委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位陳培瑜委員之質詢以書面提出，請行政院以書面答復，並列入紀錄，刊登公報。"],["委員陳培瑜書面質詢：","有關台美對等關稅，台灣適用稅率由4月2日美方宣布的32%，經過數月磋商談判後，調降為20%暫時性稅率。行政院副院長鄭麗君於8月11日之記者會上指出，20%暫時性稅率並非最終談判目標，台美談判仍在持續進行中，8月7日、8月8日即與美方進行視訊磋商。","惟關稅議題自4月延燒至今，坊間輿論四起，許多民眾仍無法清楚了解實際受影響之產業類別、影響層面、政府提供之輔導措施。爰此，本席藉本次院會專案報告之機會，與行政院共同釐清前述問題。","依據經濟部於8月14日公布之「2025年對等關稅政策速覽」，銅、藥品、半導體、能源、關鍵礦物、捐贈品、資訊材料、在途貨物、已受232條款約束之產品（鋼鐵、鋁製品、汽車/零組件），並不適用對等關稅，此類約佔全國出口之七成。換言之，適用台美對等關稅的產品，約佔全國出口25～30%。","適用台美對等關稅之產品，依據類型之不同，亦有不同之正反面影響：","1.手工具產業：台灣主要競爭對手為越南、中國。越南目前稅率20%、中國目前關稅58.3%。數據顯示，中國對美國出口在4月、5月、6月分別出現20%、34%、16%之衰退，顯示中國逐漸讓出市場，台灣即有機會競爭。","2.水五金產業：台灣主要競爭對手同樣為越南、中國，我國與越南關稅相同，對中國也處於優勢。","3.工具機產業：台灣主要競爭國為日本、韓國、德國，關稅均較我國低。對此，行政院表示將協助拓展印度、東南亞、歐洲等新市場，並協助國內業者汰換老舊設備、輔導導入AI技術轉型。","4.重電產業：我國主要對手為歐盟、中國，相較歐盟處於劣勢，對中國則有優勢，行政院將協助拓展多元市場、跨域合作，如發展大型伺服器，提升附加價值。","5.塑膠製品產業：我國主要競爭對手為中國、墨西哥，我國關稅並未處於劣勢，但仍應爭取中國所讓出市場。","針對前述產業，行政院已啟動衝擊盤點、意見蒐集，4月至今已在各縣市舉行超過50場座談會，確認每項出口產品可能受到的影響。並據以提出930億元之「因應美國關稅我國出口供應鏈支持方案」，可分為工業措施（750億元）、農業措施（180億元）等兩大面向，透過金融支持、降低行政成本、開拓多元市場、租稅優惠、安定就業、提升產業競爭力等措施，支持產業渡過衝擊。","至於國人最為關注之半導體、ICT產品，並不適用台美對等關稅，但涉及美方正在進行的「232條款」調查。專家學者如中華經濟研究院院長連賢明、台新金控首席經濟學家李鎮宇、中研院經濟所研究員許文泰均提醒，應該將對等關稅和232關稅一起談，日本、韓國、歐盟均是如此。台灣若沒有包在一起談，可能須付出兩次分別的代價，對台灣來說非常不利。","行政院副院長鄭麗君也多次強調，台灣後續談判將積極爭取再降對等關稅，以及一併磋商232條款。","參採各領域專家學者意見後，本席建議行政院與相關部會可多加留意下列事項：","1.後續232條款磋商中，需考量ICT產業究竟是依照商品內的半導體進行課稅，抑或是「整機課稅」？如何課稅才會對台灣產業更加有利？","2.台灣出口美國之產品，涉及232條款者多為國安機敏產業，不若越南、印度以勞動密集或原物料為主。因此，台美談判不只是稅率問題，而牽涉更深層的供應鏈、軍事合作、地緣政治、美中競爭，談判團隊須一併納入考量。","3.未來談判若涉及非關稅壁壘移除、開放市場，經濟學家預測農業、汽車產業將會受到嚴重衝擊，政府應提前做好因應。"],["主席：下一位請牛煦庭委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":158,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-26","speakers":["江啟臣","吳思瑤","傅崐萁","許宇甄","林倩綺","陳昭姿","王定宇","黃珊珊","羅美玲","鍾佳濱","羅智強","陳冠廷","高金素梅","李坤城","黃健豪","陳亭妃","賴士葆","林岱樺","徐巧芯","何欣純","楊瓊瓔","陳培瑜","牛煦庭"],"page_start":45,"meetingDate":["2025-08-25"],"gazette_id":"1147401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147401_00003","1147401_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第26次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長提出「臺美關稅談判之進程、方針、原則及臺灣產業可能遭受之衝擊影響評估」專案\n報告並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147401_00003"}}}