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{\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 129.262, \"end\": 129.342, \"score\": 0.761}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 129.342, \"end\": 129.522, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"史\", \"start\": 129.522, \"end\": 129.682, \"score\": 0.873}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 129.682, \"end\": 129.963, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 129.963, \"end\": 130.183, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"高\", \"start\": 130.183, \"end\": 130.203, \"score\": 0.482}]}, {\"start\": 130.723, \"end\": 152.029, \"text\": \"那即使是最後公佈的也有兩兆九千兩百五十億那加上今天行政院又要追加的八百七十八億追加的部分我們可以看一下有三大部分前兩項部分是法定的義務支出那結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來總共有一百九十七億\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 130.723, \"end\": 130.883, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"即\", \"start\": 130.883, \"end\": 131.103, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"使\", \"start\": 131.103, \"end\": 131.303, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 131.303, \"end\": 131.463, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 131.463, \"end\": 131.623, \"score\": 0.998}, 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{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"什\", \"start\": 851.982, \"end\": 852.523, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 852.523, \"end\": 852.823, \"score\": 0.881}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 852.823, \"end\": 852.963, \"score\": 0.886}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 852.963, \"end\": 853.404, \"score\": 0.84}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 853.404, \"end\": 853.544, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 853.544, \"end\": 853.784, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 853.784, \"end\": 853.904, \"score\": 0.86}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 853.904, \"end\": 854.044, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"控\", \"start\": 854.044, \"end\": 854.244, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"管\", \"start\": 854.244, \"end\": 854.404, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"得\", \"start\": 854.404, \"end\": 854.484, \"score\": 0.755}, {\"word\": \"很\", \"start\": 854.484, \"end\": 854.885, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"嚴\"}, {\"word\": \"喔\", \"start\": 854.885, \"end\": 854.905, \"score\": 0.002}]}, {\"start\": 855.585, \"end\": 882.236, \"text\": \"還要下去這種財神爺嗎還有四個月的時間所以我覺得啦就是說追加預算不可以用這樣一個重複編列的方式那如果有需要當然隨時我們都可以追加預算我跟委員說明一下我們這次申請動用預備金因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億這是史上從來沒有過的當然會去抬級到這個第二預備金的這個用途\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 855.585, \"end\": 855.745, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 855.745, \"end\": 856.045, \"score\": 0.802}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 856.045, \"end\": 856.626, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"財\"}, {\"word\": \"神\", \"start\": 856.626, \"end\": 856.866, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"爺\"}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 856.866, \"end\": 857.886, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"四\", \"start\": 857.886, \"end\": 858.146, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 858.146, \"end\": 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{\"word\": \"之\", \"start\": 871.111, \"end\": 871.311, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"前\", \"start\": 871.311, \"end\": 871.551, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 871.551, \"end\": 871.751, \"score\": 0.864}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 871.751, \"end\": 871.891, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"辦\"}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 871.891, \"end\": 872.212, \"score\": 0.922}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"料\", \"start\": 872.212, \"end\": 872.392, \"score\": 0.958}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 872.392, \"end\": 872.972, \"score\": 0.898}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"多\", \"start\": 872.972, \"end\": 873.132, \"score\": 0.989}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 873.132, \"end\": 873.252, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 873.252, \"end\": 873.532, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"子\", \"start\": 873.532, \"end\": 874.252, \"score\": 0.934}, {\"word\": \"而\", \"start\": 874.252, \"end\": 874.472, \"score\": 0.993}, {\"word\": \"且\", \"start\": 874.472, \"end\": 874.913, \"score\": 0.952}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"次\", \"start\": 874.913, \"end\": 875.233, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"動\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 875.233, \"end\": 875.433, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 875.433, \"end\": 875.573, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 875.573, \"end\": 876.073, \"score\": 0.933}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 876.073, \"end\": 876.953, \"score\": 0.969}, {\"word\": \"達\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 876.953, \"end\": 877.934, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \"億\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 877.934, \"end\": 878.374, \"score\": 0.949}, {\"word\": \"史\", \"start\": 878.374, \"end\": 878.554, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 878.554, \"end\": 878.894, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"從\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 878.894, \"end\": 879.034, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 879.034, \"end\": 879.454, \"score\": 0.893}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 879.454, \"end\": 880.155, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"當\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 880.155, \"end\": 880.375, \"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"去\", \"start\": 880.375, \"end\": 880.755, \"score\": 0.878}, {\"word\": \"抬\", \"start\": 880.755, \"end\": 881.235, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"級\"}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 881.235, \"end\": 881.635, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"第\", \"start\": 881.635, \"end\": 881.655, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"二\", \"start\": 881.655, \"end\": 881.735, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"預\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"金\", \"start\": 881.735, \"end\": 881.875, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 881.875, \"end\": 881.995, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 881.995, \"end\": 882.216, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"途\", \"start\": 882.216, \"end\": 882.236, \"score\": 0.0}]}, {\"start\": 883.516, \"end\": 889.324, \"text\": \"那因為時間的關係我只有最後一個問題要請教我要請教這個院長那可以暫停嗎 主席因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 883.516, \"end\": 883.656, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 883.656, \"end\": 884.197, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"間\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 884.197, \"end\": 884.598, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"係\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 884.598, \"end\": 884.718, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"只\", \"start\": 884.718, \"end\": 885.038, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 885.038, \"end\": 885.198, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"最\", \"start\": 885.198, \"end\": 885.299, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"後\", \"start\": 885.299, \"end\": 885.359, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 885.359, \"end\": 885.439, \"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 885.439, \"end\": 885.519, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 885.519, \"end\": 885.599, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 885.599, \"end\": 885.739, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 885.739, \"end\": 885.879, \"score\": 0.852}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 885.879, \"end\": 886.12, \"score\": 0.766}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 886.12, \"end\": 886.26, \"score\": 0.863}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 886.26, \"end\": 886.4, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"可\", \"start\": 886.4, \"end\": 886.54, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 886.54, \"end\": 886.941, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"暫\"}, {\"word\": \"停\", \"start\": 886.941, \"end\": 887.141, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"嗎\"}, {\"word\": \"主\", \"start\": 887.141, \"end\": 887.302, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"席\", \"start\": 887.302, \"end\": 887.542, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"因\", \"start\": 887.542, \"end\": 888.123, \"score\": 0.929}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 888.123, \"end\": 888.403, \"score\": 0.928}, {\"word\": \"其\", \"start\": 888.403, \"end\": 888.623, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"實\"}, {\"word\": \"還\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 888.623, \"end\": 888.744, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 888.744, \"end\": 888.944, \"score\": 0.894}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"題\"}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 888.944, \"end\": 889.084, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"請\"}, {\"word\": \"教\", \"start\": 889.084, \"end\": 889.304, \"score\": 0.865}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 889.304, \"end\": 889.324, \"score\": 0.053}, {\"word\": \"長\"}]}, {\"start\": 896.599, \"end\": 906.545, \"text\": \"還有一個問題就是針對內政部追加的預算我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用經濟計劃這個原計劃數是原列是44億9600萬我們這個通案刪減了4億多所以決算竟然改成40億9545萬可是你們這一次的追加預算有2881億迴編率高達95.4%\", 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\"好\", \"start\": 971.66, \"end\": 971.68, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,109 --> 00:00:29,206\n許宇珍委員質詢陳廷飛委員請準備謝謝主席我們請周永泰卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢\n\n2\n00:00:43,484 --> 00:01:08,721\n剛剛我有聽到民進黨的立法委員在說這次的追加預算是因應韓院長所提出的要求而提出的追加預算我記得在上禮拜我諮詢您的時候我就有提到了在今年2月10號總統邀集五院院長一曲是會唱國陣的時候韓院長當時提出用追加預算的方式是請您不要提出復議\n\n3\n00:01:10,638 --> 00:01:36,028\n結果院長您有沒有提出賦益有你在2月27號提出了賦益結果呢好在提出賦益之後韓院長的目的是希望不要走這樣的程序我們可以透過追加預算來解決這個紛擾結果您還是提出了賦益然後在5月16號針對我們的一般性的補助款幫地方刪減了636億\n\n4\n00:01:38,189 --> 00:01:47,001\n所以這根本不是剛剛這民進黨委員在那邊胡說八道講的是因應韓院長的要求所以用這樣的方式來去混淆事情我覺得非常非常的不公平院長是請您不要提出復議\n\n5\n00:01:54,031 --> 00:02:10,203\n可以用追加的方式嘛所以說我覺得民進黨委員不要在那邊造謠在胡說八道我覺得這個真的非常不可取喔那當然我們今天主要是針對這個總預算的追加案那我們也知道說今年度本來編列的這個總預算本來就是史上最高\n\n6\n00:02:10,723 --> 00:02:32,029\n那即使是最後公佈的也有兩兆九千兩百五十億那加上今天行政院又要追加的八百七十八億追加的部分我們可以看一下有三大部分前兩項部分是法定的義務支出那結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來總共有一百九十七億\n\n7\n00:02:33,129 --> 00:02:50,020\n那我們可以看到這兩個單位是屬於法定義務支出然後其他的被刪減回補的這種混合編列的方式根本就是在拿政府、人民拿地方的政府還有人民還有原住民\n\n8\n00:02:50,760 --> 00:03:04,669\n當作肉票就是說我們要解決中央地方共同的困難我們一起解決困難這個問題不是發生在中央就是發生在地方我們請中央跟地方一起共體實踐\n\n9\n00:03:06,210 --> 00:03:29,715\n院長那這197億元你覺不覺得根本就是在把人民當作提款器也是覺得立法把人民當作提款器啊197億就是你單位被刪減回編的部分啊因為你把他跟一般性補助款跟原住民的進保補償條例混在一起送進來這個總預算的追加案那不就是把人民把這個原住民還有地方政府當作漏票我們有圖像分開編列啊\n\n10\n00:03:30,695 --> 00:03:46,160\n你現在不就是這樣編列嗎就是197億是單位被刪減回編我幫你統計好了有竹象在裡面編列我知道但我幫你統計好了數目就是這樣子那另外呢我們可以看到在這個我們先來看看這個\n\n11\n00:03:48,444 --> 00:03:56,366\n最佳預算這個編列的有多離譜你可以看一下我們幫您這個統計出來的表在112年呢3減300億那3減數是1.1%決算結餘有607億113年呢3減數是299億3減率是1.04%那決算是672億好我們在114年度如果\n\n12\n00:04:12,569 --> 00:04:30,517\n不含台電補助的1000億的話大概是3.55%如果你今天通過的追加預算878億通過之後刪減率來到多少只剩0.65%只剩0.65%是史上最低即便是你們在\n\n13\n00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:47,312\n過去八年執政國會最大黨的時代都還這個三減數都有1.1、1.04現在是0.65三減率不是拿來做競爭比較型的跟哪一年比較這不是競爭比較這只是告訴你這不是在競爭比較這只是告訴你目前的這個狀況0.65%是史上最低那當然你們現在迴邊了\n\n14\n00:05:00,024 --> 00:05:16,825\n這麼多的這個高額的追加預算我們可以看得出來雖然說立法院一開始刪減了1075億幫人民這個省下不少的血汗錢但是你現在又回編了878億所以說回編這麼高的一個追加預算心態非常可預\n\n15\n00:05:17,626 --> 00:05:46,806\n我們就在玩弄這個政府的一個預算喔那我們先來看我們先從你行政院本身的預算來看好我們有分為幾個部分喔那回編率是48.83%那我們先從一般行政來看喔我們當時會刪減是因為行政院的職場霸凌還有部分的政務委員的任命有問題以及行政院聯合服務中心的正副執行長被拿來做政治酬庸因此刪減相關的預算現在回編\n\n16\n00:05:50,185 --> 00:06:13,370\n高達55.7%所以是不是又要來酬傭特定人呢再來聯合服務中心的經費之所以三減是因為他所併用的助理很多都是一些酬傭性質所以我們認為不該把我們的這個中部的服務中心或全台的服務中心當作一個安插這個政治酬傭的一個地方現在追加預算要回編3652萬高達96.4%\n\n17\n00:06:18,831 --> 00:06:42,291\n當時我們有請行政院要提出具體的檢討方案請問現在有出來了嗎所以過去半年行政院的聯合副中心的人員到處在配合這個宣講大罷免造謠立法院亂刪預算現在卻要追加96.4%的這樣子的一個預算請問合理嗎你們有提出這個我們的具體檢討的方案出來嗎\n\n18\n00:06:43,206 --> 00:06:57,997\n行政院各地的服務中心的人員有哪一位去配合大罷免請委員指出來我們來處理好會後我一定會提供給你絕對有如果沒有的話請委員支持絕對有請絕對有這個絕對不會空口說白話會後我一定會告訴你\n\n19\n00:06:59,498 --> 00:07:20,473\n那當然行政院的執行長你們任用的這個服務中心的執行長副執行長其實看都是說實在都是酬庸的一個性質那我們也有很多的例子現在因為時間的關係我會後一定會整理給院長如果是的話您是不是就要把這個預算給他吞回去就刪減讓他刪減了根本不該用這樣的方式剛剛你說嘛\n\n20\n00:07:21,994 --> 00:07:40,937\n如果說沒有的話那你請我支持如果有的話你要不要把這些人都砍掉我們把各部會現在遇到的困難既然要這樣講的話那我院長我們就來做這樣一個協議就是如果是這樣的話那我同意這筆預算回復如果不是的話我請你把這筆預算刪減\n\n21\n00:07:42,158 --> 00:08:09,113\n我再來看一下各部會的追加狀況就內政部追加率有95.4%外交部的追加率有151.3%環境部的追加率有59.1%當然行政院跟轄下的17個單位追加率是327.5那海委會也追加了139許多部會都追加超過50%那當然追加率這麼高所以\n\n22\n00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:32,309\n有符合我們的財政紀律嗎那立法院還要審預算嗎我們審的我們覺得浮邊爛邊的刪除凍結之後你沒有把它追加回來這樣還有這個財政預算嗎我們還需要審預算嗎上個會期我們還要審115年的預算嗎我們是以原預算收支剩餘來編這一次的追加預算所以沒有舉債所以這個不牽涉任何財政紀律\n\n23\n00:08:33,089 --> 00:09:02,341\n我們還是嚴守財政紀律其實你們已經嚴重的違反了這個預算法第79條我們預算法第79條的預算的這個編列的規定是應該要這其中這幾項那目前看起來呢並沒有這些狀況因為好比如第三項因應重大事故的關係可是這一次不管是關稅的不管是風災的不管是其他這個國防的我們其實都已經編列了特別預算來去做所以為什麼還要追加這些預算我覺得\n\n24\n00:09:03,161 --> 00:09:22,468\n這樣子其實拿納稅人的錢在這邊開玩笑我覺得真的不是我們行政院該做的事情喔那還有來我們看一下媒體宣傳費提出了4億2906萬的追加預算迴遍率達55.84%這也非常的不合理院長你知道在政論節目都在怎麼罵在野黨嗎怎麼護航執政黨嗎\n\n25\n00:09:25,231 --> 00:09:53,321\n院長你知道嗎我們是在編制在行政院內部的沒宣費用院長你來看電視節目的你是不是知道政論節目怎麼在罵在野黨你有看過嗎你今天晚上可以去看一下政論節目喔你沒關係你怎麼轉怎麼哪一台都一樣我從51台到57台都有看都在罵在野黨有啦51台到57台都有看所以院長你知不知道這次賴清德主席所聘任的就是民視的主持人擔任他的秘書長\n\n26\n00:09:54,588 --> 00:10:12,442\n那過去這一年多來他就是在這政論節目不斷的罵在野黨詆毀在野黨而且民視在每年大概都可以拿到四億左右的宣傳費所以院長你說看看這樣子的一個我們的沒宣費用要怎麼能夠追加回來呢\n\n27\n00:10:12,922 --> 00:10:37,950\n所以將回來就是在漫再野黨而不是真正為你們宣傳該有的這個政策你知道嗎那天在一個政論節目主持人有問三位名嘴說你們知不知道過去這一年來這個由民進黨執政的這個執政團隊有什麼政策你們想得起來的他們回答什麼有啊就是自愛難行然後咧富裕然後視線\n\n28\n00:10:39,551 --> 00:11:05,658\n他們就回答這樣的問題這也是一般民眾的想法但是光是這三件真的讓我們自在難行這是大家最常聽到院長講的一句話那為什麼會自在難行呢你有沒有想過這樣的原因呢不能把這些帽子都扣到我們立法院身上為什麼會自在難行其實你很清楚行政院要負最大的責任賴總統要負最大的責任我們再來看一下中選會的追加預算\n\n29\n00:11:08,459 --> 00:11:23,228\n因為本席在內政委員會所以我在5月12號的時候我曾經詢問過中選會的主委李敬勇我說針對今年的我們的這個相關的罷免經費跟公投的經費你有沒有編列預算來我們請\n\n30\n00:11:24,769 --> 00:11:43,624\n罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算所以我請教你罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金\n\n31\n00:11:45,151 --> 00:12:13,201\n李金榮本人諸位本人也在現場當時我在5月的時候請教您5月12號請教您質詢您的時候你說會動用二倍金那現在呢我們也看到針對這個第11屆立法院的罷免案跟全國性的公民投票已經在7月間已經兩度向行政院申請動之第二預備金總共有15億左右那院長也已經核准了我們可以看一下\n\n32\n00:12:14,381 --> 00:12:28,173\n那所以呢都已經動用第二餘倍金了為什麼在這個時候還要追加預算請問院長為什麼要重複的編列因為向來的罷免動用二倍金沒有錯因為是單一事件那次是由公民團體發送的罷免\n\n33\n00:12:30,540 --> 00:12:48,665\n案件相當的大完全用第二預備金的話您也說那是救命錢如果這個追加預算通過我們就可以歸電給第二預備金第二預備金在有需要的時候我們就用到更需要的用途月長您知不知道您今年度的第二預備金還有剩多少今年編列80億現在還有剩多少30餘億現在已經幾月了\n\n34\n00:12:52,712 --> 00:13:00,156\n現在已經快要九月了過去這八個月來你們用的錢還剩下未來四個月還有剩下三十多億那我剛也已經提了嘛不管是風災不管是這個我們都提出的特別條例那也不會再用到這方面的錢剩下四個月你還有三十多億可以用那為什麼而且是扣掉這十五億喔這個十五億假設你再回過來\n\n35\n00:13:17,384 --> 00:13:22,367\n是變成了四五十億耶那未來的四個月你還有用到這個有可能用到這樣子這麼多的錢嗎\n\n36\n00:13:26,653 --> 00:13:47,044\n我知道啊我的意思是說都已經動用二倍金了你這時候又再追加回來而實際上最後用到了這些這還有三十幾億加上那十五億可能有將近五十億我們先電資出去了啊二倍金先動了大概還有將近五十億喔如果再把這個十五億還回來那你最後這四個月你有這麼多的二倍金\n\n37\n00:13:48,485 --> 00:14:14,905\n二倍金委員說的很好就是救命錢如果不需要用到我們不會把它浪費掉為什麼在這個時候要追加這樣的預算因為以過去九個月來事實上你們花掉的其實都絕對大概只有二三十億而已你還有三十幾億的經費所以說我們也覺得很奇怪這段時間你們是好像下鄉去做一些這個什麼委員可以問問主席長我是控管得很嚴喔\n\n38\n00:14:15,585 --> 00:14:42,236\n還要下去這種財神爺嗎還有四個月的時間所以我覺得啦就是說追加預算不可以用這樣一個重複編列的方式那如果有需要當然隨時我們都可以追加預算我跟委員說明一下我們這次申請動用預備金因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億這是史上從來沒有過的當然會去抬級到這個第二預備金的這個用途\n\n39\n00:14:43,516 --> 00:14:49,324\n那因為時間的關係我只有最後一個問題要請教我要請教這個院長那可以暫停嗎主席因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長\n\n40\n00:14:56,599 --> 00:15:06,545\n還有一個問題就是針對內政部追加的預算我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用經濟計劃這個原計劃數是原列是44億9600萬我們這個通案刪減了4億多所以決算竟然改成40億9545萬可是你們這一次的追加預算有2881億迴編率高達95.4%\n\n41\n00:15:24,136 --> 00:15:41,380\n那根據本席查過之後該計畫在1月到7月尚無執行數所以預算都還沒有執行為什麼要追加4億多報告委員我來回應一下因為網路流量科那個部分的話一定要等到全額到位的時候才對喔你們在7月8號已經針對網路科技運用計畫的技術顧問採購案\n\n42\n00:16:11,660 --> 00:16:11,680\n好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n109\t29206\t許宇珍委員質詢陳廷飛委員請準備謝謝主席我們請周永泰卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢\n43484\t68721\t剛剛我有聽到民進黨的立法委員在說這次的追加預算是因應韓院長所提出的要求而提出的追加預算我記得在上禮拜我諮詢您的時候我就有提到了在今年2月10號總統邀集五院院長一曲是會唱國陣的時候韓院長當時提出用追加預算的方式是請您不要提出復議\n70638\t96028\t結果 院長 您有沒有提出賦益有 你在2月27號提出了賦益結果呢 好 在提出賦益之後韓院長的目的是希望不要走這樣的程序我們可以透過追加預算來解決這個紛擾結果您還是提出了賦益然後在5月16號針對我們的一般性的補助款幫地方刪減了636億\n98189\t107001\t所以這根本不是剛剛這民進黨委員在那邊胡說八道講的是因應韓院長的要求所以用這樣的方式來去混淆事情我覺得非常非常的不公平院長是請您不要提出復議\n114031\t130203\t可以用追加的方式嘛所以說我覺得民進黨委員不要在那邊造謠在胡說八道我覺得這個真的非常不可取喔那當然我們今天主要是針對這個總預算的追加案那我們也知道說今年度本來編列的這個總預算本來就是史上最高\n130723\t152029\t那即使是最後公佈的也有兩兆九千兩百五十億那加上今天行政院又要追加的八百七十八億追加的部分我們可以看一下有三大部分前兩項部分是法定的義務支出那結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來總共有一百九十七億\n153129\t170020\t那我們可以看到這兩個單位是屬於法定義務支出然後其他的被刪減回補的這種混合編列的方式根本就是在拿政府、人民拿地方的政府還有人民還有原住民\n170760\t184669\t當作肉票就是說我們要解決中央地方共同的困難我們一起解決困難這個問題不是發生在中央就是發生在地方我們請中央跟地方一起共體實踐\n186210\t209715\t院長那這197億元你覺不覺得根本就是在把人民當作提款器也是覺得立法把人民當作提款器啊197億就是你單位被刪減回編的部分啊因為你把他跟一般性補助款跟原住民的進保補償條例混在一起送進來這個總預算的追加案那不就是把人民把這個原住民還有地方政府當作漏票我們有圖像分開編列啊\n210695\t226160\t你現在不就是這樣編列嗎就是197億是單位被刪減回編我幫你統計好了有竹象在裡面編列我知道但我幫你統計好了數目就是這樣子那另外呢我們可以看到在這個我們先來看看這個\n228444\t236366\t最佳預算這個編列的有多離譜你可以看一下我們幫您這個統計出來的表在112年呢3減300億那3減數是1.1%決算結餘有607億113年呢3減數是299億3減率是1.04%那決算是672億好我們在114年度如果\n252569\t270517\t不含台電補助的1000億的話大概是3.55%如果你今天通過的追加預算878億通過之後刪減率來到多少只剩0.65%只剩0.65%是史上最低即便是你們在\n272880\t287312\t過去八年執政國會最大黨的時代都還這個三減數都有1.1、1.04現在是0.65三減率不是拿來做競爭比較型的跟哪一年比較這不是競爭比較這只是告訴你這不是在競爭比較這只是告訴你目前的這個狀況0.65%是史上最低那當然你們現在迴邊了\n300024\t316825\t這麼多的這個高額的追加預算我們可以看得出來雖然說立法院一開始刪減了1075億幫人民這個省下不少的血汗錢但是你現在又回編了878億所以說回編這麼高的一個追加預算心態非常可預\n317626\t346806\t我們就在玩弄這個政府的一個預算喔那我們先來看我們先從你行政院本身的預算來看好我們有分為幾個部分喔那回編率是48.83%那我們先從一般行政來看喔我們當時會刪減是因為行政院的職場霸凌還有部分的政務委員的任命有問題以及行政院聯合服務中心的正副執行長被拿來做政治酬庸因此刪減相關的預算現在回編\n347466\t349787\t2925萬\n350185\t373370\t高達55.7%所以是不是又要來酬傭特定人呢再來聯合服務中心的經費之所以三減是因為他所併用的助理很多都是一些酬傭性質所以我們認為不該把我們的這個中部的服務中心或全台的服務中心當作一個安插這個政治酬傭的一個地方現在追加預算要回編3652萬高達96.4%\n378831\t402291\t當時我們有請行政院要提出具體的檢討方案請問現在有出來了嗎所以過去半年行政院的聯合副中心的人員到處在配合這個宣講大罷免造謠立法院亂刪預算現在卻要追加96.4%的這樣子的一個預算請問合理嗎你們有提出這個我們的具體檢討的方案出來嗎\n403206\t417997\t行政院各地的服務中心的人員有哪一位去配合大罷免請委員指出來 我們來處理好 會後我一定會提供給你 絕對有如果沒有的話請委員支持絕對有 請絕對有這個絕對不會空口說白話會後我一定會告訴你\n419498\t440473\t那當然行政院的執行長你們任用的這個服務中心的執行長副執行長其實看都是說實在都是酬庸的一個性質那我們也有很多的例子現在因為時間的關係我會後一定會整理給院長如果是的話您是不是就要把這個預算給他吞回去就刪減讓他刪減了根本不該用這樣的方式剛剛你說嘛\n441994\t460937\t如果說沒有的話那你請我支持如果有的話你要不要把這些人都砍掉我們把各部會現在遇到的困難既然要這樣講的話那我院長我們就來做這樣一個協議就是如果是這樣的話那我同意這筆預算回復如果不是的話我請你把這筆預算刪減\n462158\t489113\t我再來看一下各部會的追加狀況就內政部追加率有95.4%外交部的追加率有151.3%環境部的追加率有59.1%當然行政院跟轄下的17個單位追加率是327.5那海委會也追加了139許多部會都追加超過50%那當然追加率這麼高所以\n489980\t512309\t有符合我們的財政紀律嗎那立法院還要審預算嗎我們審的我們覺得浮邊爛邊的刪除凍結之後你沒有把它追加回來這樣還有這個財政預算嗎我們還需要審預算嗎上個會期我們還要審115年的預算嗎我們是以原預算收支剩餘來編這一次的追加預算所以沒有舉債所以這個不牽涉任何財政紀律\n513089\t542341\t我們還是嚴守財政紀律其實你們已經嚴重的違反了這個預算法第79條我們預算法第79條的預算的這個編列的規定是應該要這其中這幾項那目前看起來呢並沒有這些狀況因為好比如第三項因應重大事故的關係可是這一次不管是關稅的不管是風災的不管是其他這個國防的我們其實都已經編列了特別預算來去做所以為什麼還要追加這些預算我覺得\n543161\t562468\t這樣子其實拿納稅人的錢在這邊開玩笑我覺得真的不是我們行政院該做的事情喔那還有來我們看一下媒體宣傳費提出了4億2906萬的追加預算迴遍率達55.84%這也非常的不合理院長你知道在政論節目都在怎麼罵在野黨嗎怎麼護航執政黨嗎\n565231\t593321\t院長你知道嗎我們是在編制在行政院內部的沒宣費用院長你來看電視節目的你是不是知道政論節目怎麼在罵在野黨你有看過嗎你今天晚上可以去看一下政論節目喔你沒關係你怎麼轉怎麼哪一台都一樣我從51台到57台都有看都在罵在野黨有啦51台到57台都有看所以院長你知不知道這次賴清德主席所聘任的就是民視的主持人擔任他的秘書長\n594588\t612442\t那過去這一年多來他就是在這政論節目不斷的罵在野黨 詆毀在野黨而且民視在每年大概都可以拿到四億左右的宣傳費所以院長你說看看這樣子的一個我們的沒宣費用要怎麼能夠追加回來呢\n612922\t637950\t所以將回來就是在漫再野黨而不是真正為你們宣傳該有的這個政策你知道嗎那天在一個政論節目主持人有問三位名嘴說你們知不知道過去這一年來這個由民進黨執政的這個執政團隊有什麼政策你們想得起來的他們回答什麼有啊就是自愛難行然後咧 富裕然後視線\n639551\t665658\t他們就回答這樣的問題這也是一般民眾的想法但是光是這三件真的讓我們自在難行這是大家最常聽到院長講的一句話那為什麼會自在難行呢你有沒有想過這樣的原因呢不能把這些帽子都扣到我們立法院身上為什麼會自在難行其實你很清楚行政院要負最大的責任賴總統要負最大的責任我們再來看一下中選會的追加預算\n668459\t683228\t因為本席在內政委員會所以我在5月12號的時候我曾經詢問過中選會的主委李敬勇我說針對今年的我們的這個相關的罷免經費跟公投的經費你有沒有編列預算來我們請\n684769\t703624\t罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算所以我請教你罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金\n705151\t733201\t李金榮本人 諸位本人也在現場當時我在5月的時候請教您5月12號請教您質詢您的時候你說會動用二倍金那現在呢我們也看到針對這個第11屆立法院的罷免案跟全國性的公民投票已經在7月間已經兩度向行政院申請動之第二預備金總共有15億左右那院長也已經核准了我們可以看一下\n734381\t748173\t那所以呢都已經動用第二餘倍金了為什麼在這個時候還要追加預算請問院長為什麼要重複的編列因為向來的罷免動用二倍金沒有錯因為是單一事件那次是由公民團體發送的罷免\n750540\t768665\t案件相當的大 完全用第二預備金的話 您也說那是救命錢如果這個追加預算通過 我們就可以歸電給第二預備金第二預備金在有需要的時候 我們就用到更需要的用途月長 您知不知道您今年度的第二預備金還有剩多少今年編列80億 現在還有剩多少30餘億現在已經幾月了\n772712\t780156\t現在已經快要九月了 過去這八個月來你們用的錢還剩下未來四個月還有剩下三十多億那我剛也已經提了嘛不管是風災不管是這個我們都提出的特別條例那也不會再用到這方面的錢剩下四個月你還有三十多億可以用那為什麼 而且是扣掉這十五億喔這個十五億假設你再回過來\n797384\t802367\t是變成了四五十億耶那未來的四個月你還有用到這個有可能用到這樣子這麼多的錢嗎\n806653\t827044\t我知道啊我的意思是說都已經動用二倍金了你這時候又再追加回來而實際上最後用到了這些這還有三十幾億加上那十五億可能有將近五十億我們先電資出去了啊二倍金先動了大概還有將近五十億喔如果再把這個十五億還回來那你最後這四個月你有這麼多的二倍金\n828485\t854905\t二倍金委員說的很好 就是救命錢如果不需要用到 我們不會把它浪費掉為什麼在這個時候要追加這樣的預算因為以過去九個月來 事實上你們花掉的其實都絕對大概只有二三十億而已你還有三十幾億的經費所以說我們也覺得很奇怪這段時間你們是好像下鄉去做一些這個什麼委員可以問問主席長 我是控管得很嚴喔\n855585\t882236\t還要下去這種財神爺嗎還有四個月的時間所以我覺得啦就是說追加預算不可以用這樣一個重複編列的方式那如果有需要當然隨時我們都可以追加預算我跟委員說明一下我們這次申請動用預備金因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億這是史上從來沒有過的當然會去抬級到這個第二預備金的這個用途\n883516\t889324\t那因為時間的關係我只有最後一個問題要請教我要請教這個院長那可以暫停嗎 主席因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長\n896599\t906545\t還有一個問題就是針對內政部追加的預算我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用經濟計劃這個原計劃數是原列是44億9600萬我們這個通案刪減了4億多所以決算竟然改成40億9545萬可是你們這一次的追加預算有2881億迴編率高達95.4%\n924136\t941380\t那根據本席查過之後該計畫在1月到7月尚無執行數所以預算都還沒有執行為什麼要追加4億多報告委員我來回應一下因為網路流量科那個部分的話一定要等到全額到位的時候才對喔你們在7月8號已經針對網路科技運用計畫的技術顧問採購案\n971660\t971680\t好 謝謝\n","txt":"許宇珍委員質詢陳廷飛委員請準備謝謝主席我們請周永泰卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢\n剛剛我有聽到民進黨的立法委員在說這次的追加預算是因應韓院長所提出的要求而提出的追加預算我記得在上禮拜我諮詢您的時候我就有提到了在今年2月10號總統邀集五院院長一曲是會唱國陣的時候韓院長當時提出用追加預算的方式是請您不要提出復議\n結果 院長 您有沒有提出賦益有 你在2月27號提出了賦益結果呢 好 在提出賦益之後韓院長的目的是希望不要走這樣的程序我們可以透過追加預算來解決這個紛擾結果您還是提出了賦益然後在5月16號針對我們的一般性的補助款幫地方刪減了636億\n所以這根本不是剛剛這民進黨委員在那邊胡說八道講的是因應韓院長的要求所以用這樣的方式來去混淆事情我覺得非常非常的不公平院長是請您不要提出復議\n可以用追加的方式嘛所以說我覺得民進黨委員不要在那邊造謠在胡說八道我覺得這個真的非常不可取喔那當然我們今天主要是針對這個總預算的追加案那我們也知道說今年度本來編列的這個總預算本來就是史上最高\n那即使是最後公佈的也有兩兆九千兩百五十億那加上今天行政院又要追加的八百七十八億追加的部分我們可以看一下有三大部分前兩項部分是法定的義務支出那結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來總共有一百九十七億\n那我們可以看到這兩個單位是屬於法定義務支出然後其他的被刪減回補的這種混合編列的方式根本就是在拿政府、人民拿地方的政府還有人民還有原住民\n當作肉票就是說我們要解決中央地方共同的困難我們一起解決困難這個問題不是發生在中央就是發生在地方我們請中央跟地方一起共體實踐\n院長那這197億元你覺不覺得根本就是在把人民當作提款器也是覺得立法把人民當作提款器啊197億就是你單位被刪減回編的部分啊因為你把他跟一般性補助款跟原住民的進保補償條例混在一起送進來這個總預算的追加案那不就是把人民把這個原住民還有地方政府當作漏票我們有圖像分開編列啊\n你現在不就是這樣編列嗎就是197億是單位被刪減回編我幫你統計好了有竹象在裡面編列我知道但我幫你統計好了數目就是這樣子那另外呢我們可以看到在這個我們先來看看這個\n最佳預算這個編列的有多離譜你可以看一下我們幫您這個統計出來的表在112年呢3減300億那3減數是1.1%決算結餘有607億113年呢3減數是299億3減率是1.04%那決算是672億好我們在114年度如果\n不含台電補助的1000億的話大概是3.55%如果你今天通過的追加預算878億通過之後刪減率來到多少只剩0.65%只剩0.65%是史上最低即便是你們在\n過去八年執政國會最大黨的時代都還這個三減數都有1.1、1.04現在是0.65三減率不是拿來做競爭比較型的跟哪一年比較這不是競爭比較這只是告訴你這不是在競爭比較這只是告訴你目前的這個狀況0.65%是史上最低那當然你們現在迴邊了\n這麼多的這個高額的追加預算我們可以看得出來雖然說立法院一開始刪減了1075億幫人民這個省下不少的血汗錢但是你現在又回編了878億所以說回編這麼高的一個追加預算心態非常可預\n我們就在玩弄這個政府的一個預算喔那我們先來看我們先從你行政院本身的預算來看好我們有分為幾個部分喔那回編率是48.83%那我們先從一般行政來看喔我們當時會刪減是因為行政院的職場霸凌還有部分的政務委員的任命有問題以及行政院聯合服務中心的正副執行長被拿來做政治酬庸因此刪減相關的預算現在回編\n2925萬\n高達55.7%所以是不是又要來酬傭特定人呢再來聯合服務中心的經費之所以三減是因為他所併用的助理很多都是一些酬傭性質所以我們認為不該把我們的這個中部的服務中心或全台的服務中心當作一個安插這個政治酬傭的一個地方現在追加預算要回編3652萬高達96.4%\n當時我們有請行政院要提出具體的檢討方案請問現在有出來了嗎所以過去半年行政院的聯合副中心的人員到處在配合這個宣講大罷免造謠立法院亂刪預算現在卻要追加96.4%的這樣子的一個預算請問合理嗎你們有提出這個我們的具體檢討的方案出來嗎\n行政院各地的服務中心的人員有哪一位去配合大罷免請委員指出來 我們來處理好 會後我一定會提供給你 絕對有如果沒有的話請委員支持絕對有 請絕對有這個絕對不會空口說白話會後我一定會告訴你\n那當然行政院的執行長你們任用的這個服務中心的執行長副執行長其實看都是說實在都是酬庸的一個性質那我們也有很多的例子現在因為時間的關係我會後一定會整理給院長如果是的話您是不是就要把這個預算給他吞回去就刪減讓他刪減了根本不該用這樣的方式剛剛你說嘛\n如果說沒有的話那你請我支持如果有的話你要不要把這些人都砍掉我們把各部會現在遇到的困難既然要這樣講的話那我院長我們就來做這樣一個協議就是如果是這樣的話那我同意這筆預算回復如果不是的話我請你把這筆預算刪減\n我再來看一下各部會的追加狀況就內政部追加率有95.4%外交部的追加率有151.3%環境部的追加率有59.1%當然行政院跟轄下的17個單位追加率是327.5那海委會也追加了139許多部會都追加超過50%那當然追加率這麼高所以\n有符合我們的財政紀律嗎那立法院還要審預算嗎我們審的我們覺得浮邊爛邊的刪除凍結之後你沒有把它追加回來這樣還有這個財政預算嗎我們還需要審預算嗎上個會期我們還要審115年的預算嗎我們是以原預算收支剩餘來編這一次的追加預算所以沒有舉債所以這個不牽涉任何財政紀律\n我們還是嚴守財政紀律其實你們已經嚴重的違反了這個預算法第79條我們預算法第79條的預算的這個編列的規定是應該要這其中這幾項那目前看起來呢並沒有這些狀況因為好比如第三項因應重大事故的關係可是這一次不管是關稅的不管是風災的不管是其他這個國防的我們其實都已經編列了特別預算來去做所以為什麼還要追加這些預算我覺得\n這樣子其實拿納稅人的錢在這邊開玩笑我覺得真的不是我們行政院該做的事情喔那還有來我們看一下媒體宣傳費提出了4億2906萬的追加預算迴遍率達55.84%這也非常的不合理院長你知道在政論節目都在怎麼罵在野黨嗎怎麼護航執政黨嗎\n院長你知道嗎我們是在編制在行政院內部的沒宣費用院長你來看電視節目的你是不是知道政論節目怎麼在罵在野黨你有看過嗎你今天晚上可以去看一下政論節目喔你沒關係你怎麼轉怎麼哪一台都一樣我從51台到57台都有看都在罵在野黨有啦51台到57台都有看所以院長你知不知道這次賴清德主席所聘任的就是民視的主持人擔任他的秘書長\n那過去這一年多來他就是在這政論節目不斷的罵在野黨 詆毀在野黨而且民視在每年大概都可以拿到四億左右的宣傳費所以院長你說看看這樣子的一個我們的沒宣費用要怎麼能夠追加回來呢\n所以將回來就是在漫再野黨而不是真正為你們宣傳該有的這個政策你知道嗎那天在一個政論節目主持人有問三位名嘴說你們知不知道過去這一年來這個由民進黨執政的這個執政團隊有什麼政策你們想得起來的他們回答什麼有啊就是自愛難行然後咧 富裕然後視線\n他們就回答這樣的問題這也是一般民眾的想法但是光是這三件真的讓我們自在難行這是大家最常聽到院長講的一句話那為什麼會自在難行呢你有沒有想過這樣的原因呢不能把這些帽子都扣到我們立法院身上為什麼會自在難行其實你很清楚行政院要負最大的責任賴總統要負最大的責任我們再來看一下中選會的追加預算\n因為本席在內政委員會所以我在5月12號的時候我曾經詢問過中選會的主委李敬勇我說針對今年的我們的這個相關的罷免經費跟公投的經費你有沒有編列預算來我們請\n罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算所以我請教你罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金\n李金榮本人 諸位本人也在現場當時我在5月的時候請教您5月12號請教您質詢您的時候你說會動用二倍金那現在呢我們也看到針對這個第11屆立法院的罷免案跟全國性的公民投票已經在7月間已經兩度向行政院申請動之第二預備金總共有15億左右那院長也已經核准了我們可以看一下\n那所以呢都已經動用第二餘倍金了為什麼在這個時候還要追加預算請問院長為什麼要重複的編列因為向來的罷免動用二倍金沒有錯因為是單一事件那次是由公民團體發送的罷免\n案件相當的大 完全用第二預備金的話 您也說那是救命錢如果這個追加預算通過 我們就可以歸電給第二預備金第二預備金在有需要的時候 我們就用到更需要的用途月長 您知不知道您今年度的第二預備金還有剩多少今年編列80億 現在還有剩多少30餘億現在已經幾月了\n現在已經快要九月了 過去這八個月來你們用的錢還剩下未來四個月還有剩下三十多億那我剛也已經提了嘛不管是風災不管是這個我們都提出的特別條例那也不會再用到這方面的錢剩下四個月你還有三十多億可以用那為什麼 而且是扣掉這十五億喔這個十五億假設你再回過來\n是變成了四五十億耶那未來的四個月你還有用到這個有可能用到這樣子這麼多的錢嗎\n我知道啊我的意思是說都已經動用二倍金了你這時候又再追加回來而實際上最後用到了這些這還有三十幾億加上那十五億可能有將近五十億我們先電資出去了啊二倍金先動了大概還有將近五十億喔如果再把這個十五億還回來那你最後這四個月你有這麼多的二倍金\n二倍金委員說的很好 就是救命錢如果不需要用到 我們不會把它浪費掉為什麼在這個時候要追加這樣的預算因為以過去九個月來 事實上你們花掉的其實都絕對大概只有二三十億而已你還有三十幾億的經費所以說我們也覺得很奇怪這段時間你們是好像下鄉去做一些這個什麼委員可以問問主席長 我是控管得很嚴喔\n還要下去這種財神爺嗎還有四個月的時間所以我覺得啦就是說追加預算不可以用這樣一個重複編列的方式那如果有需要當然隨時我們都可以追加預算我跟委員說明一下我們這次申請動用預備金因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億這是史上從來沒有過的當然會去抬級到這個第二預備金的這個用途\n那因為時間的關係我只有最後一個問題要請教我要請教這個院長那可以暫停嗎 主席因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長\n還有一個問題就是針對內政部追加的預算我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用經濟計劃這個原計劃數是原列是44億9600萬我們這個通案刪減了4億多所以決算竟然改成40億9545萬可是你們這一次的追加預算有2881億迴編率高達95.4%\n那根據本席查過之後該計畫在1月到7月尚無執行數所以預算都還沒有執行為什麼要追加4億多報告委員我來回應一下因為網路流量科那個部分的話一定要等到全額到位的時候才對喔你們在7月8號已經針對網路科技運用計畫的技術顧問採購案\n好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.109 --> 00:29.206\n許宇珍委員質詢陳廷飛委員請準備謝謝主席我們請周永泰卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢\n\n00:43.484 --> 01:08.721\n剛剛我有聽到民進黨的立法委員在說這次的追加預算是因應韓院長所提出的要求而提出的追加預算我記得在上禮拜我諮詢您的時候我就有提到了在今年2月10號總統邀集五院院長一曲是會唱國陣的時候韓院長當時提出用追加預算的方式是請您不要提出復議\n\n01:10.638 --> 01:36.028\n結果院長您有沒有提出賦益有你在2月27號提出了賦益結果呢好在提出賦益之後韓院長的目的是希望不要走這樣的程序我們可以透過追加預算來解決這個紛擾結果您還是提出了賦益然後在5月16號針對我們的一般性的補助款幫地方刪減了636億\n\n01:38.189 --> 01:47.001\n所以這根本不是剛剛這民進黨委員在那邊胡說八道講的是因應韓院長的要求所以用這樣的方式來去混淆事情我覺得非常非常的不公平院長是請您不要提出復議\n\n01:54.031 --> 02:10.203\n可以用追加的方式嘛所以說我覺得民進黨委員不要在那邊造謠在胡說八道我覺得這個真的非常不可取喔那當然我們今天主要是針對這個總預算的追加案那我們也知道說今年度本來編列的這個總預算本來就是史上最高\n\n02:10.723 --> 02:32.029\n那即使是最後公佈的也有兩兆九千兩百五十億那加上今天行政院又要追加的八百七十八億追加的部分我們可以看一下有三大部分前兩項部分是法定的義務支出那結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來總共有一百九十七億\n\n02:33.129 --> 02:50.020\n那我們可以看到這兩個單位是屬於法定義務支出然後其他的被刪減回補的這種混合編列的方式根本就是在拿政府、人民拿地方的政府還有人民還有原住民\n\n02:50.760 --> 03:04.669\n當作肉票就是說我們要解決中央地方共同的困難我們一起解決困難這個問題不是發生在中央就是發生在地方我們請中央跟地方一起共體實踐\n\n03:06.210 --> 03:29.715\n院長那這197億元你覺不覺得根本就是在把人民當作提款器也是覺得立法把人民當作提款器啊197億就是你單位被刪減回編的部分啊因為你把他跟一般性補助款跟原住民的進保補償條例混在一起送進來這個總預算的追加案那不就是把人民把這個原住民還有地方政府當作漏票我們有圖像分開編列啊\n\n03:30.695 --> 03:46.160\n你現在不就是這樣編列嗎就是197億是單位被刪減回編我幫你統計好了有竹象在裡面編列我知道但我幫你統計好了數目就是這樣子那另外呢我們可以看到在這個我們先來看看這個\n\n03:48.444 --> 03:56.366\n最佳預算這個編列的有多離譜你可以看一下我們幫您這個統計出來的表在112年呢3減300億那3減數是1.1%決算結餘有607億113年呢3減數是299億3減率是1.04%那決算是672億好我們在114年度如果\n\n04:12.569 --> 04:30.517\n不含台電補助的1000億的話大概是3.55%如果你今天通過的追加預算878億通過之後刪減率來到多少只剩0.65%只剩0.65%是史上最低即便是你們在\n\n04:32.880 --> 04:47.312\n過去八年執政國會最大黨的時代都還這個三減數都有1.1、1.04現在是0.65三減率不是拿來做競爭比較型的跟哪一年比較這不是競爭比較這只是告訴你這不是在競爭比較這只是告訴你目前的這個狀況0.65%是史上最低那當然你們現在迴邊了\n\n05:00.024 --> 05:16.825\n這麼多的這個高額的追加預算我們可以看得出來雖然說立法院一開始刪減了1075億幫人民這個省下不少的血汗錢但是你現在又回編了878億所以說回編這麼高的一個追加預算心態非常可預\n\n05:17.626 --> 05:46.806\n我們就在玩弄這個政府的一個預算喔那我們先來看我們先從你行政院本身的預算來看好我們有分為幾個部分喔那回編率是48.83%那我們先從一般行政來看喔我們當時會刪減是因為行政院的職場霸凌還有部分的政務委員的任命有問題以及行政院聯合服務中心的正副執行長被拿來做政治酬庸因此刪減相關的預算現在回編\n\n05:50.185 --> 06:13.370\n高達55.7%所以是不是又要來酬傭特定人呢再來聯合服務中心的經費之所以三減是因為他所併用的助理很多都是一些酬傭性質所以我們認為不該把我們的這個中部的服務中心或全台的服務中心當作一個安插這個政治酬傭的一個地方現在追加預算要回編3652萬高達96.4%\n\n06:18.831 --> 06:42.291\n當時我們有請行政院要提出具體的檢討方案請問現在有出來了嗎所以過去半年行政院的聯合副中心的人員到處在配合這個宣講大罷免造謠立法院亂刪預算現在卻要追加96.4%的這樣子的一個預算請問合理嗎你們有提出這個我們的具體檢討的方案出來嗎\n\n06:43.206 --> 06:57.997\n行政院各地的服務中心的人員有哪一位去配合大罷免請委員指出來我們來處理好會後我一定會提供給你絕對有如果沒有的話請委員支持絕對有請絕對有這個絕對不會空口說白話會後我一定會告訴你\n\n06:59.498 --> 07:20.473\n那當然行政院的執行長你們任用的這個服務中心的執行長副執行長其實看都是說實在都是酬庸的一個性質那我們也有很多的例子現在因為時間的關係我會後一定會整理給院長如果是的話您是不是就要把這個預算給他吞回去就刪減讓他刪減了根本不該用這樣的方式剛剛你說嘛\n\n07:21.994 --> 07:40.937\n如果說沒有的話那你請我支持如果有的話你要不要把這些人都砍掉我們把各部會現在遇到的困難既然要這樣講的話那我院長我們就來做這樣一個協議就是如果是這樣的話那我同意這筆預算回復如果不是的話我請你把這筆預算刪減\n\n07:42.158 --> 08:09.113\n我再來看一下各部會的追加狀況就內政部追加率有95.4%外交部的追加率有151.3%環境部的追加率有59.1%當然行政院跟轄下的17個單位追加率是327.5那海委會也追加了139許多部會都追加超過50%那當然追加率這麼高所以\n\n08:09.980 --> 08:32.309\n有符合我們的財政紀律嗎那立法院還要審預算嗎我們審的我們覺得浮邊爛邊的刪除凍結之後你沒有把它追加回來這樣還有這個財政預算嗎我們還需要審預算嗎上個會期我們還要審115年的預算嗎我們是以原預算收支剩餘來編這一次的追加預算所以沒有舉債所以這個不牽涉任何財政紀律\n\n08:33.089 --> 09:02.341\n我們還是嚴守財政紀律其實你們已經嚴重的違反了這個預算法第79條我們預算法第79條的預算的這個編列的規定是應該要這其中這幾項那目前看起來呢並沒有這些狀況因為好比如第三項因應重大事故的關係可是這一次不管是關稅的不管是風災的不管是其他這個國防的我們其實都已經編列了特別預算來去做所以為什麼還要追加這些預算我覺得\n\n09:03.161 --> 09:22.468\n這樣子其實拿納稅人的錢在這邊開玩笑我覺得真的不是我們行政院該做的事情喔那還有來我們看一下媒體宣傳費提出了4億2906萬的追加預算迴遍率達55.84%這也非常的不合理院長你知道在政論節目都在怎麼罵在野黨嗎怎麼護航執政黨嗎\n\n09:25.231 --> 09:53.321\n院長你知道嗎我們是在編制在行政院內部的沒宣費用院長你來看電視節目的你是不是知道政論節目怎麼在罵在野黨你有看過嗎你今天晚上可以去看一下政論節目喔你沒關係你怎麼轉怎麼哪一台都一樣我從51台到57台都有看都在罵在野黨有啦51台到57台都有看所以院長你知不知道這次賴清德主席所聘任的就是民視的主持人擔任他的秘書長\n\n09:54.588 --> 10:12.442\n那過去這一年多來他就是在這政論節目不斷的罵在野黨詆毀在野黨而且民視在每年大概都可以拿到四億左右的宣傳費所以院長你說看看這樣子的一個我們的沒宣費用要怎麼能夠追加回來呢\n\n10:12.922 --> 10:37.950\n所以將回來就是在漫再野黨而不是真正為你們宣傳該有的這個政策你知道嗎那天在一個政論節目主持人有問三位名嘴說你們知不知道過去這一年來這個由民進黨執政的這個執政團隊有什麼政策你們想得起來的他們回答什麼有啊就是自愛難行然後咧富裕然後視線\n\n10:39.551 --> 11:05.658\n他們就回答這樣的問題這也是一般民眾的想法但是光是這三件真的讓我們自在難行這是大家最常聽到院長講的一句話那為什麼會自在難行呢你有沒有想過這樣的原因呢不能把這些帽子都扣到我們立法院身上為什麼會自在難行其實你很清楚行政院要負最大的責任賴總統要負最大的責任我們再來看一下中選會的追加預算\n\n11:08.459 --> 11:23.228\n因為本席在內政委員會所以我在5月12號的時候我曾經詢問過中選會的主委李敬勇我說針對今年的我們的這個相關的罷免經費跟公投的經費你有沒有編列預算來我們請\n\n11:24.769 --> 11:43.624\n罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算所以我請教你罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金\n\n11:45.151 --> 12:13.201\n李金榮本人諸位本人也在現場當時我在5月的時候請教您5月12號請教您質詢您的時候你說會動用二倍金那現在呢我們也看到針對這個第11屆立法院的罷免案跟全國性的公民投票已經在7月間已經兩度向行政院申請動之第二預備金總共有15億左右那院長也已經核准了我們可以看一下\n\n12:14.381 --> 12:28.173\n那所以呢都已經動用第二餘倍金了為什麼在這個時候還要追加預算請問院長為什麼要重複的編列因為向來的罷免動用二倍金沒有錯因為是單一事件那次是由公民團體發送的罷免\n\n12:30.540 --> 12:48.665\n案件相當的大完全用第二預備金的話您也說那是救命錢如果這個追加預算通過我們就可以歸電給第二預備金第二預備金在有需要的時候我們就用到更需要的用途月長您知不知道您今年度的第二預備金還有剩多少今年編列80億現在還有剩多少30餘億現在已經幾月了\n\n12:52.712 --> 13:00.156\n現在已經快要九月了過去這八個月來你們用的錢還剩下未來四個月還有剩下三十多億那我剛也已經提了嘛不管是風災不管是這個我們都提出的特別條例那也不會再用到這方面的錢剩下四個月你還有三十多億可以用那為什麼而且是扣掉這十五億喔這個十五億假設你再回過來\n\n13:17.384 --> 13:22.367\n是變成了四五十億耶那未來的四個月你還有用到這個有可能用到這樣子這麼多的錢嗎\n\n13:26.653 --> 13:47.044\n我知道啊我的意思是說都已經動用二倍金了你這時候又再追加回來而實際上最後用到了這些這還有三十幾億加上那十五億可能有將近五十億我們先電資出去了啊二倍金先動了大概還有將近五十億喔如果再把這個十五億還回來那你最後這四個月你有這麼多的二倍金\n\n13:48.485 --> 14:14.905\n二倍金委員說的很好就是救命錢如果不需要用到我們不會把它浪費掉為什麼在這個時候要追加這樣的預算因為以過去九個月來事實上你們花掉的其實都絕對大概只有二三十億而已你還有三十幾億的經費所以說我們也覺得很奇怪這段時間你們是好像下鄉去做一些這個什麼委員可以問問主席長我是控管得很嚴喔\n\n14:15.585 --> 14:42.236\n還要下去這種財神爺嗎還有四個月的時間所以我覺得啦就是說追加預算不可以用這樣一個重複編列的方式那如果有需要當然隨時我們都可以追加預算我跟委員說明一下我們這次申請動用預備金因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億這是史上從來沒有過的當然會去抬級到這個第二預備金的這個用途\n\n14:43.516 --> 14:49.324\n那因為時間的關係我只有最後一個問題要請教我要請教這個院長那可以暫停嗎主席因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長\n\n14:56.599 --> 15:06.545\n還有一個問題就是針對內政部追加的預算我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用經濟計劃這個原計劃數是原列是44億9600萬我們這個通案刪減了4億多所以決算竟然改成40億9545萬可是你們這一次的追加預算有2881億迴編率高達95.4%\n\n15:24.136 --> 15:41.380\n那根據本席查過之後該計畫在1月到7月尚無執行數所以預算都還沒有執行為什麼要追加4億多報告委員我來回應一下因為網路流量科那個部分的話一定要等到全額到位的時候才對喔你們在7月8號已經針對網路科技運用計畫的技術顧問採購案\n\n16:11.660 --> 16:11.680\n好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.109,"end":29.206,"text":"許宇珍委員質詢陳廷飛委員請準備謝謝主席我們請周永泰卓院長麻煩請卓院長備詢"},{"start":43.484,"end":68.721,"text":"剛剛我有聽到民進黨的立法委員在說這次的追加預算是因應韓院長所提出的要求而提出的追加預算我記得在上禮拜我諮詢您的時候我就有提到了在今年2月10號總統邀集五院院長一曲是會唱國陣的時候韓院長當時提出用追加預算的方式是請您不要提出復議"},{"start":70.638,"end":96.028,"text":"結果 院長 您有沒有提出賦益有 你在2月27號提出了賦益結果呢 好 在提出賦益之後韓院長的目的是希望不要走這樣的程序我們可以透過追加預算來解決這個紛擾結果您還是提出了賦益然後在5月16號針對我們的一般性的補助款幫地方刪減了636億"},{"start":98.189,"end":107.001,"text":"所以這根本不是剛剛這民進黨委員在那邊胡說八道講的是因應韓院長的要求所以用這樣的方式來去混淆事情我覺得非常非常的不公平院長是請您不要提出復議"},{"start":114.031,"end":130.203,"text":"可以用追加的方式嘛所以說我覺得民進黨委員不要在那邊造謠在胡說八道我覺得這個真的非常不可取喔那當然我們今天主要是針對這個總預算的追加案那我們也知道說今年度本來編列的這個總預算本來就是史上最高"},{"start":130.723,"end":152.029,"text":"那即使是最後公佈的也有兩兆九千兩百五十億那加上今天行政院又要追加的八百七十八億追加的部分我們可以看一下有三大部分前兩項部分是法定的義務支出那結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來總共有一百九十七億"},{"start":153.129,"end":170.02,"text":"那我們可以看到這兩個單位是屬於法定義務支出然後其他的被刪減回補的這種混合編列的方式根本就是在拿政府、人民拿地方的政府還有人民還有原住民"},{"start":170.76,"end":184.669,"text":"當作肉票就是說我們要解決中央地方共同的困難我們一起解決困難這個問題不是發生在中央就是發生在地方我們請中央跟地方一起共體實踐"},{"start":186.21,"end":209.715,"text":"院長那這197億元你覺不覺得根本就是在把人民當作提款器也是覺得立法把人民當作提款器啊197億就是你單位被刪減回編的部分啊因為你把他跟一般性補助款跟原住民的進保補償條例混在一起送進來這個總預算的追加案那不就是把人民把這個原住民還有地方政府當作漏票我們有圖像分開編列啊"},{"start":210.695,"end":226.16,"text":"你現在不就是這樣編列嗎就是197億是單位被刪減回編我幫你統計好了有竹象在裡面編列我知道但我幫你統計好了數目就是這樣子那另外呢我們可以看到在這個我們先來看看這個"},{"start":228.444,"end":236.366,"text":"最佳預算這個編列的有多離譜你可以看一下我們幫您這個統計出來的表在112年呢3減300億那3減數是1.1%決算結餘有607億113年呢3減數是299億3減率是1.04%那決算是672億好我們在114年度如果"},{"start":252.569,"end":270.517,"text":"不含台電補助的1000億的話大概是3.55%如果你今天通過的追加預算878億通過之後刪減率來到多少只剩0.65%只剩0.65%是史上最低即便是你們在"},{"start":272.88,"end":287.312,"text":"過去八年執政國會最大黨的時代都還這個三減數都有1.1、1.04現在是0.65三減率不是拿來做競爭比較型的跟哪一年比較這不是競爭比較這只是告訴你這不是在競爭比較這只是告訴你目前的這個狀況0.65%是史上最低那當然你們現在迴邊了"},{"start":300.024,"end":316.825,"text":"這麼多的這個高額的追加預算我們可以看得出來雖然說立法院一開始刪減了1075億幫人民這個省下不少的血汗錢但是你現在又回編了878億所以說回編這麼高的一個追加預算心態非常可預"},{"start":317.626,"end":346.806,"text":"我們就在玩弄這個政府的一個預算喔那我們先來看我們先從你行政院本身的預算來看好我們有分為幾個部分喔那回編率是48.83%那我們先從一般行政來看喔我們當時會刪減是因為行政院的職場霸凌還有部分的政務委員的任命有問題以及行政院聯合服務中心的正副執行長被拿來做政治酬庸因此刪減相關的預算現在回編"},{"start":347.466,"end":349.787,"text":"2925萬"},{"start":350.185,"end":373.37,"text":"高達55.7%所以是不是又要來酬傭特定人呢再來聯合服務中心的經費之所以三減是因為他所併用的助理很多都是一些酬傭性質所以我們認為不該把我們的這個中部的服務中心或全台的服務中心當作一個安插這個政治酬傭的一個地方現在追加預算要回編3652萬高達96.4%"},{"start":378.831,"end":402.291,"text":"當時我們有請行政院要提出具體的檢討方案請問現在有出來了嗎所以過去半年行政院的聯合副中心的人員到處在配合這個宣講大罷免造謠立法院亂刪預算現在卻要追加96.4%的這樣子的一個預算請問合理嗎你們有提出這個我們的具體檢討的方案出來嗎"},{"start":403.206,"end":417.997,"text":"行政院各地的服務中心的人員有哪一位去配合大罷免請委員指出來 我們來處理好 會後我一定會提供給你 絕對有如果沒有的話請委員支持絕對有 請絕對有這個絕對不會空口說白話會後我一定會告訴你"},{"start":419.498,"end":440.473,"text":"那當然行政院的執行長你們任用的這個服務中心的執行長副執行長其實看都是說實在都是酬庸的一個性質那我們也有很多的例子現在因為時間的關係我會後一定會整理給院長如果是的話您是不是就要把這個預算給他吞回去就刪減讓他刪減了根本不該用這樣的方式剛剛你說嘛"},{"start":441.994,"end":460.937,"text":"如果說沒有的話那你請我支持如果有的話你要不要把這些人都砍掉我們把各部會現在遇到的困難既然要這樣講的話那我院長我們就來做這樣一個協議就是如果是這樣的話那我同意這筆預算回復如果不是的話我請你把這筆預算刪減"},{"start":462.158,"end":489.113,"text":"我再來看一下各部會的追加狀況就內政部追加率有95.4%外交部的追加率有151.3%環境部的追加率有59.1%當然行政院跟轄下的17個單位追加率是327.5那海委會也追加了139許多部會都追加超過50%那當然追加率這麼高所以"},{"start":489.98,"end":512.309,"text":"有符合我們的財政紀律嗎那立法院還要審預算嗎我們審的我們覺得浮邊爛邊的刪除凍結之後你沒有把它追加回來這樣還有這個財政預算嗎我們還需要審預算嗎上個會期我們還要審115年的預算嗎我們是以原預算收支剩餘來編這一次的追加預算所以沒有舉債所以這個不牽涉任何財政紀律"},{"start":513.089,"end":542.341,"text":"我們還是嚴守財政紀律其實你們已經嚴重的違反了這個預算法第79條我們預算法第79條的預算的這個編列的規定是應該要這其中這幾項那目前看起來呢並沒有這些狀況因為好比如第三項因應重大事故的關係可是這一次不管是關稅的不管是風災的不管是其他這個國防的我們其實都已經編列了特別預算來去做所以為什麼還要追加這些預算我覺得"},{"start":543.161,"end":562.468,"text":"這樣子其實拿納稅人的錢在這邊開玩笑我覺得真的不是我們行政院該做的事情喔那還有來我們看一下媒體宣傳費提出了4億2906萬的追加預算迴遍率達55.84%這也非常的不合理院長你知道在政論節目都在怎麼罵在野黨嗎怎麼護航執政黨嗎"},{"start":565.231,"end":593.321,"text":"院長你知道嗎我們是在編制在行政院內部的沒宣費用院長你來看電視節目的你是不是知道政論節目怎麼在罵在野黨你有看過嗎你今天晚上可以去看一下政論節目喔你沒關係你怎麼轉怎麼哪一台都一樣我從51台到57台都有看都在罵在野黨有啦51台到57台都有看所以院長你知不知道這次賴清德主席所聘任的就是民視的主持人擔任他的秘書長"},{"start":594.588,"end":612.442,"text":"那過去這一年多來他就是在這政論節目不斷的罵在野黨 詆毀在野黨而且民視在每年大概都可以拿到四億左右的宣傳費所以院長你說看看這樣子的一個我們的沒宣費用要怎麼能夠追加回來呢"},{"start":612.922,"end":637.95,"text":"所以將回來就是在漫再野黨而不是真正為你們宣傳該有的這個政策你知道嗎那天在一個政論節目主持人有問三位名嘴說你們知不知道過去這一年來這個由民進黨執政的這個執政團隊有什麼政策你們想得起來的他們回答什麼有啊就是自愛難行然後咧 富裕然後視線"},{"start":639.551,"end":665.658,"text":"他們就回答這樣的問題這也是一般民眾的想法但是光是這三件真的讓我們自在難行這是大家最常聽到院長講的一句話那為什麼會自在難行呢你有沒有想過這樣的原因呢不能把這些帽子都扣到我們立法院身上為什麼會自在難行其實你很清楚行政院要負最大的責任賴總統要負最大的責任我們再來看一下中選會的追加預算"},{"start":668.459,"end":683.228,"text":"因為本席在內政委員會所以我在5月12號的時候我曾經詢問過中選會的主委李敬勇我說針對今年的我們的這個相關的罷免經費跟公投的經費你有沒有編列預算來我們請"},{"start":684.769,"end":703.624,"text":"罷免案你沒有辦法變入這個年度的預算所以我請教你罷免案的經費都是申請行政院動資第二預備金罷免案會用行政院的第二預備金是嗎也就是我們俗稱的救命錢是嗎我們會向行政院申請動用第二預備金"},{"start":705.151,"end":733.201,"text":"李金榮本人 諸位本人也在現場當時我在5月的時候請教您5月12號請教您質詢您的時候你說會動用二倍金那現在呢我們也看到針對這個第11屆立法院的罷免案跟全國性的公民投票已經在7月間已經兩度向行政院申請動之第二預備金總共有15億左右那院長也已經核准了我們可以看一下"},{"start":734.381,"end":748.173,"text":"那所以呢都已經動用第二餘倍金了為什麼在這個時候還要追加預算請問院長為什麼要重複的編列因為向來的罷免動用二倍金沒有錯因為是單一事件那次是由公民團體發送的罷免"},{"start":750.54,"end":768.665,"text":"案件相當的大 完全用第二預備金的話 您也說那是救命錢如果這個追加預算通過 我們就可以歸電給第二預備金第二預備金在有需要的時候 我們就用到更需要的用途月長 您知不知道您今年度的第二預備金還有剩多少今年編列80億 現在還有剩多少30餘億現在已經幾月了"},{"start":772.712,"end":780.156,"text":"現在已經快要九月了 過去這八個月來你們用的錢還剩下未來四個月還有剩下三十多億那我剛也已經提了嘛不管是風災不管是這個我們都提出的特別條例那也不會再用到這方面的錢剩下四個月你還有三十多億可以用那為什麼 而且是扣掉這十五億喔這個十五億假設你再回過來"},{"start":797.384,"end":802.367,"text":"是變成了四五十億耶那未來的四個月你還有用到這個有可能用到這樣子這麼多的錢嗎"},{"start":806.653,"end":827.044,"text":"我知道啊我的意思是說都已經動用二倍金了你這時候又再追加回來而實際上最後用到了這些這還有三十幾億加上那十五億可能有將近五十億我們先電資出去了啊二倍金先動了大概還有將近五十億喔如果再把這個十五億還回來那你最後這四個月你有這麼多的二倍金"},{"start":828.485,"end":854.905,"text":"二倍金委員說的很好 就是救命錢如果不需要用到 我們不會把它浪費掉為什麼在這個時候要追加這樣的預算因為以過去九個月來 事實上你們花掉的其實都絕對大概只有二三十億而已你還有三十幾億的經費所以說我們也覺得很奇怪這段時間你們是好像下鄉去做一些這個什麼委員可以問問主席長 我是控管得很嚴喔"},{"start":855.585,"end":882.236,"text":"還要下去這種財神爺嗎還有四個月的時間所以我覺得啦就是說追加預算不可以用這樣一個重複編列的方式那如果有需要當然隨時我們都可以追加預算我跟委員說明一下我們這次申請動用預備金因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億這是史上從來沒有過的當然會去抬級到這個第二預備金的這個用途"},{"start":883.516,"end":889.324,"text":"那因為時間的關係我只有最後一個問題要請教我要請教這個院長那可以暫停嗎 主席因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長"},{"start":896.599,"end":906.545,"text":"還有一個問題就是針對內政部追加的預算我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用經濟計劃這個原計劃數是原列是44億9600萬我們這個通案刪減了4億多所以決算竟然改成40億9545萬可是你們這一次的追加預算有2881億迴編率高達95.4%"},{"start":924.136,"end":941.38,"text":"那根據本席查過之後該計畫在1月到7月尚無執行數所以預算都還沒有執行為什麼要追加4億多報告委員我來回應一下因為網路流量科那個部分的話一定要等到全額到位的時候才對喔你們在7月8號已經針對網路科技運用計畫的技術顧問採購案"},{"start":971.66,"end":971.68,"text":"好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":697,"blocks":[["許委員宇甄：（10時50分）謝謝主席，我們請卓榮泰院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：許委員好！"],["許委員宇甄：卓院長好！卓院長，剛剛我有聽到民進黨的立法委員在說，這次的追加預算是因應韓院長所提出的要求而提出的。我記得在上個禮拜我質詢您的時候，我就有提到了，在今年2月10日總統邀集五院院長一起去會商國政的時候，韓院長當時提出用追加預算的方式是請您不要提出覆議。院長，結果您有沒有提出覆議？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們……"],["許委員宇甄：有，你在2月27日提出了覆議……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們必須要讓它憲政的原貌呈現出來。"],["許委員宇甄：韓院長的目的是希望不要走這樣的程序，我們可以透過追加預算來解決這個紛擾，結果您還是提出了覆議，然後在5月16日針對一般性補助款，幫地方刪減了636億，所以這根本不是剛剛民進黨委員在那邊胡說八道講的，是因應韓院長的要求……"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我剛剛有說，謝謝韓院長的善意……"],["許委員宇甄：所以用這樣的方式去混淆視聽……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是不是任何一個人的責任……"],["許委員宇甄：我覺得非常非常的不公平！"],["卓院長榮泰：不能把責任說是院長的責任，我們謝謝……"],["許委員宇甄：院長是請您不要提出覆議，可以用追加的方式，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，我剛剛有說了，我說謝謝韓院長的善意。"],["許委員宇甄：所以我覺得民進黨委員不要在那邊造謠、胡說八道！我覺得這個真的非常不可取！","當然我們今天主要是針對總預算的追加案，我們也知道，今年度編列的總預算本來就是史上最高，即使是最後公布的，也有2兆9,250億，加上今天行政院又要追加878億。追加的部分，我們可以看一下，有三大部分，前兩項的部分是法定義務支出，結果你們把其他單位被刪除回編的部分也列進來，總共有197億。我們可以看到，這兩個部分是屬於法定義務支出，還有其他被刪減回補的，這種混合編列的方式根本就是在拿地方政府，還有人民，還有原住民，當作肉票……"],["卓院長榮泰：並非這樣，我們要解決中央、地方共同的困難……"],["許委員宇甄：也就是我們如果不答應的話，前面是不是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一起解決困難。"],["許委員宇甄：你們一般性補助款要不要追加？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為最後這個問題不是發生在中央，就是發生在地方……"],["許委員宇甄：然後原民的部分要不要增加？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們請中央跟地方一起共體時艱。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，這197億元，你覺不覺得根本就是在把人民當作提款機，也是覺得立法院……"],["卓院長榮泰：哪裡的197億？"],["許委員宇甄：197億就是你單位被刪減回編的部分，因為你把它跟一般性補助款、原住民的禁伐補償混在一起，編列成總預算的追加案送進來，那不就是把人民、原住民還有地方政府當作肉票？"],["卓院長榮泰：可是我們有逐項分開編列啊！"],["許委員宇甄：你現在不就是這樣編列嗎？就是197億……"],["卓院長榮泰：有逐項啊！"],["許委員宇甄：是單位被刪減回編，我幫你統計好了，所以……"],["卓院長榮泰：有逐項分開在裡面編列，在預算數裡面都逐項編列。"],["許委員宇甄：我知道，但我幫你統計好了，數目就是這樣子。","另外，我們先來看看這個追加預算編列得有多離譜！你可以看一下我們幫你統計出來的表。在112年刪減300億，刪減率是1.1%，決算（結餘）有607億，113年刪減數是299億，刪減率是1.04%，決算是672億。在114年度如果不含補助台電的這個1,000億的話，刪減率大概是3.55%，如果今天通過這個追加預算878億，通過之後，刪減率來到多少？只剩0.65%，只剩0.65%，是史上最低！即便是你們在過去八年執政、國會最大黨的時代，刪減數都還有1.1%、1.04%，現在是0.65%喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我覺得刪減率不是拿來做競爭比較的，要跟哪一年比較……"],["許委員宇甄：這不是競爭比較……"],["卓院長榮泰：好像刪減得越多成績越好，不是。"],["許委員宇甄：這不是在競爭比較，這只是告訴你……"],["卓院長榮泰：是預算呈現出來的政策目標有沒有清楚、有沒有執行。"],["許委員宇甄：目前的狀況，刪減0.65%是史上最低。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員一直在比刪減率，這樣不宜。"],["許委員宇甄：當然你們現在回編了這麼高額的追加預算，我們可以看得出來，雖然說立法院一開始刪減了1,075億，幫人民省下了不少的血汗錢，但是你現在又回編了878億，所以說回編這麼高的追加預算，心態非常可議，就是在玩弄政府的預算。","我們先從行政院本身的預算來看，回編率是48.83%，我們有分為幾個部分，先從一般行政來看，我們當時會刪減是因為行政院的職場霸凌，還有部分政務委員的任命有問題，以及行政院聯合服務中心的正副執行長被拿來做政治酬庸，因此刪減相關的預算。現在回編2,925萬，比率高達55.7%，所以是不是又要來酬庸特定人呢？","再來，聯合服務中心的經費之所以刪減，是因為它所聘用的助理很多都是一些酬庸性質，所以我們認為不該把中部的服務中心或全臺的服務中心當作安插政治酬庸的一個地方。現在追加預算要回編3,652萬，比率高達96.4%，當時我們有請行政院要提出具體的檢討方案，請問現在有出來了嗎？過去半年行政院聯合服務中心的人員到處在配合宣講大罷免，造謠立法院亂刪預算，現在卻要追加96.4%的預算，請問合理嗎？你們有提出具體檢討的方案出來嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：行政院各地服務中心的人員有哪一位去配合大罷免，請委員指出來，我們來處理。"],["許委員宇甄：會後我一定會提供給你，絕對有。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果沒有的話，請委員支持。"],["許委員宇甄：絕對有，我絕對不會空口說白話，會後我一定會告訴你。"],["卓院長榮泰：如果沒有，會後請委員支持行政院相關預算。"],["許委員宇甄：當然行政院任用的服務中心的執行長、副執行長，說實在都是酬庸的性質，我們也有很多的例子……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是借重他過去在地方上的組織人脈工作……"],["許委員宇甄：現在因為時間的關係，我會後一定會整理給院長，如果是的話，您是不是就要把這個預算吞回去，就讓它刪減了？根本不該用這樣的方式，剛剛你說，如果說沒有的話，你請我支持；那如果有的話，你要不要把這些人都砍掉？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們把各部會現在遇到的困難再一次向大院來……"],["許委員宇甄：既然這樣講的話，院長，我們就來做這樣一個協議，如果是這樣的話，那我同意這筆預算回復，如果不是的話，我請你把這筆預算刪減。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員能夠合理的審查。"],["許委員宇甄：好，我們再來看一下各部會的追加狀況，內政部的追加率有95.4%，外交部的追加率有151.3%，環境部的追加率有59.1%，行政院跟轄下的17個單位追加率是327.5%，海委會也追加了139%，許多部會都追加超過50%，追加率這麼高，有符合我們的財政紀律嗎？那立法院還要審預算嗎？我們審了之後把我們覺得浮編、濫編的預算刪除、凍結之後，你們又把它追加回來，這樣還有財政紀律嗎？我們還需要審預算嗎？下個會期我們還要審115年的預算嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是以原預算收支賸餘來編這一次的追加預算，沒有舉債，所以這個不牽涉任何財政紀律，我們還是嚴守財政紀律。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，其實你們已經嚴重的違反了預算法第七十九條，我們預算法第七十九條追加預算編列的規定是應該要有其中這幾項，目前看起來並沒有這些狀況，比如第三項的「因重大事故」，可是這一次不管是關稅的，不管是風災的，不管是其他國防的，我們其實都已經編列了特別預算支應，所以為什麼還要追加這些預算？我覺得這樣子是拿納稅人的錢在這邊開玩笑，我覺得真的不是行政院該做的事情。","還有，我們看一下，媒體宣傳費提出了4億2,906萬的追加預算，回編率達55.84%，這也非常的不合理，院長，你知道政論節目都在怎麼罵在野黨嗎？怎麼護航執政黨嗎？院長，你知道嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是編製在行政院內部的媒宣費用，你拿電視節目的……"],["許委員宇甄：院長，你知道政論節目怎麼在罵在野黨嗎？你有看過嗎？你今天晚上可以去看一下政論節目，沒關係，不管你怎麼轉，不管哪一台都一樣。"],["卓院長榮泰：我從51台到57台都有看。"],["許委員宇甄：都是在罵在野黨，護航執政黨。"],["卓院長榮泰：有啦！51台到57台我都有看。"],["許委員宇甄：所以院長您知不知道？這次賴清德主席所聘任的秘書長就是民視的主持人，過去這一年多來，他就是在政論節目不斷地罵在野黨、詆毀在野黨，而且民視每年大概都可以拿到4億左右的宣傳費。所以院長你說看看，這樣的媒宣費用怎麼能夠追加回來呢？追加回來就是在罵在野黨，而不是真正為你們宣傳該有的政策。"],["卓院長榮泰：媒體宣傳很多是公開提案、公開招標的。"],["許委員宇甄：你知道嗎？那天在一個政論節目，主持人問三位名嘴說：過去這一年來，由民進黨執政的執政團隊有什麼政策是你們想得起來的？他們回答什麼？他們說：有啊！就是窒礙難行、覆議和釋憲。他們就是這樣回答問題，這也是一般民眾的想法。"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們溝通不良，但是光這3件，真的就讓我們窒礙難行。"],["許委員宇甄：對，這是大家最常聽到院長講的一句話。"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊，我們是被動的……"],["許委員宇甄：那為什麼會窒礙難行呢？你有沒有想過這樣的原因呢？你不能把這些帽子都扣到我們立法院身上。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們覆議是被動的，釋憲是被動的，窒礙難行也是被動的，主動方都在委員身上。"],["許委員宇甄：為什麼會窒礙難行？其實你很清楚，行政院要負最大的責任，賴總統要負最大的責任。"],["卓院長榮泰：主動方在委員身上，預算這樣的編列，法案這樣的排列，把行政院的預算無限制往上提升……"],["許委員宇甄：我們再來看一下中選會的追加預算。因為本席在內政委員會，所以我在5月12日時曾經詢問過中選會主委李進勇，我說：針對今年相關的罷免經費跟公投經費，你有沒有編列預算？請播一下影片。","（播放影片）"],["許委員宇甄：李進勇主委本人也在現場，我在5月12日請教你、質詢你的時候，你說會動用二備金。現在呢？我們也看到針對第11屆立法委員的罷免案跟全國性的公民投票，在7月間已經兩度向行政院申請動支第二預備金，總共有15億左右，院長也已經核准了，我們可以看一下。所以都已經動用第二預備金了，為什麼在這個時候還要追加預算呢？請問院長，為什麼要重複地編列？"],["卓院長榮泰：向來罷免都是動用二備金沒有錯，因為那是單一事件，而這次由公民團體發起的罷免案件相當地大，完全用第二預備金的話，你也說那是救命錢，如果這個追加預算通過，我們就可以歸墊給第二預備金，第二預備金在有需要的時候，就可以用在更需要的用途。"],["許委員宇甄：院長，您知不知道今年度的第二預備金還剩多少？今年編列80億，現在還剩多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：三十餘億。"],["許委員宇甄：現在已經幾月了？現在已經快要9月了……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有用完的我們會回繳國庫，也不會把它……"],["許委員宇甄：也就是說，過去了8個月，未來這4個月你們還剩下三十多億，我剛剛也已經提了，不管是風災或其他，我們都提出了特別條例，也不會再用到這方面的錢，剩下4個月你還有三十多億可以用，而且是含扣掉這15億喔！假設你再回補這15億，是變成了4、50億耶！未來的4個月你還有可能用到這麼多錢嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，15億裡面有11億是公投。"],["許委員宇甄：我知道啊！我的意思是，都已經動用二備金了，你這時候又再追加回來……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為那個時候沒有追加預算。"],["許委員宇甄：而實際上你最後用掉這些以後，還有三十幾億，加上這15億，可能有將近50億。"],["卓院長榮泰：罷免是已經完成的事情，我們先墊支出去了，二備金先動了。"],["許委員宇甄：應該還有將近50億，如果再把這15億還回來的話，最後這4個月，你有這麼多的二備金，請問你要做些什麼？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員說得很好，二備金是救命錢，如果不需要用到，我們不會把它浪費掉，我們就回給國庫。"],["許委員宇甄：那為什麼在這個時候要追加這樣的預算？以過去8個月來，事實上你們花掉的大概只有2、30億而已，你還有三十幾億的經費。"],["卓院長榮泰：你問主計總處，我是控管得非常非常嚴，你問主計長……"],["許委員宇甄：所以我們也覺得很奇怪，這段時間你們還要下鄉當財神爺……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員可以問主計長，我是控管得很嚴喔！"],["許委員宇甄：你是還要下鄉去當財神爺嗎？還有4個月的時間。"],["陳主計長淑姿：不是，我跟委員說明一下……"],["許委員宇甄：所以我覺得追加預算不可以用這樣重複編列的方式，如果有需要，當然隨時我們都可以追加預算。"],["李主任委員進勇：我跟委員說明一下，我們這次申請動用預備金，是因為之前沒有辦法預料有這麼多的案子，而且這次動用第二預備金達到15億，這是史上從來沒有過的，當然會排擠到第二預備金的用途……"],["許委員宇甄：不好意思，我知道，這個部分我很清楚，因為時間的關係，我只有最後一個問題要請教院長……"],["李主任委員進勇：如果委員能夠支持的話，我們將來會歸回給第二預備金。"],["許委員宇甄：不好意思，主席，可以暫停嗎？因為我其實還有一個問題要請教院長，可以嗎？可以繼續嗎？"],["主席：好，請許委員繼續。"],["許委員宇甄：好，還有一個問題，針對內政部追加的預算，我們可以看到有一個叫做網路科技運用精進計畫，原列計畫數是44億9,600萬，通案刪減了四億多，所以預算金額改成40億9,545萬，可是這一次的追加預算有2,881億，回編率高達95.4%。根據本席查過之後，該計畫在1月到7月尚無執行數，既然預算都還沒有執行，為什麼要追加四億多？"],["劉部長世芳：我來回應一下，因為網路流量的部分一定要等到全額到位的時候才能……"],["許委員宇甄：不對！你們在7月8號針對網路科技運用計畫的技術顧問採購案已經決標，由資策會得標，決標金額是9,630萬，也就是他們已經知道預算被編列，卻還是用既有的預算規模去規劃這個採購案，表示並不是像你講的那種狀況。"],["劉部長世芳：沒有，他們是三年的預算……三年的預算規模……"],["許委員宇甄：這個部分可能要拜託每個單位都要審慎評估追加的預算，不要浪費納稅人的血汗錢，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員支持，我們在審查的時候會詳實跟委員報告每一筆預算，謝謝委員。"],["許委員宇甄：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝許宇甄委員質詢，謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","接下來請陳亭妃委員質詢，賴士葆委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":215,"meet_id":"院會-11-3-26","speakers":["韓國瑜","王鴻薇","張啓楷","吳思瑤","洪孟楷","鍾佳濱","許宇甄","陳亭妃","賴士葆","賴惠員","翁曉玲","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe"],"page_start":159,"meetingDate":["2025-08-26"],"gazette_id":"1147401","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147401_00005"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期第26次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「114年度中央政府總預算追加預算\n案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147401_00004"}}}