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\"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,891 --> 00:00:07,683\n好謝謝主席那彭部長不想回去彭部長就再回來吧好那個環境部部長部長\n\n2\n00:00:10,504 --> 00:00:34,284\n當然是颱風造成中南部地區的石棉瓦大量的這樣的一個損毀嘛那我們在特別預算裡邊的7億多要做清運不含處理喔對不對就清運就要花7億嘛是不是這樣那環境部的統計全台目前監測到的這個屬於這個石棉瓦在屋頂上的應該將近有50萬噸50萬噸24萬噸\n\n3\n00:00:38,007 --> 00:00:38,628\n20多萬噸50萬噸嘛這是環境部的相關資料\n\n4\n00:00:45,831 --> 00:01:14,316\n本縣啦在我的母縣是55,991公噸然後從兩年前一直到目前為止才清除980幾噸等於不到1乘7啦不到1乘7那我們面對石冰瓦的這個狀況要去處理最主要它是世界衛生組織公認的一級的致癌物沒有錯嘛對不對那也從小英就任的第二年開始\n\n5\n00:01:15,416 --> 00:01:31,199\n等於在107年我們開始有政策要來處理這些石棉瓦那到現在已經114年已經過了7年時間能不能簡單說明一下總共50萬噸我們清理了幾噸包含處理大概15000多噸15000多噸算過來應該不到兩成多那你們預期的目標要把這50萬噸可以處理到結束\n\n6\n00:01:43,339 --> 00:02:12,731\n要分幾年要多少預算大概要兩百億啦那也報告委員因為有損壞的石棉瓦才對健康有害那我們認為現在政府的預算壓力非常的大所以我們認為是說有需要的我們政府就會來做補助所以過去每年大概有兩三億的費用來進行這樣損壞的石棉瓦才算是有害沒有損壞的石棉瓦就不會有害對等到需要拆除的時候就一併拆除這樣\n\n7\n00:02:13,811 --> 00:02:40,616\n這個是後面的事情嘛那就從你對外8月25號環境部有對外說完整的石梅瓦基本上是無害的道理是一樣嘛是一致嘛但是石梅瓦經過風吹日曬可能會龜裂可能會出現有這個缺角這個都不會造成有害這個也算是在完全的石梅瓦深度無法嗎可以這麼認定嗎\n\n8\n00:02:42,217 --> 00:02:51,313\n對包委員大概就是說不是不是不是對不起你回答我對人家的句話是是缺角歸類的算是完整的這個屋頂的石棉瓦嗎\n\n9\n00:02:52,582 --> 00:03:10,217\n對只要有裂掉或是漏水那歸裂那個都算是有損害有損害嘛那個就算有損害嘛對不對對那照理講現在我們去TEST我們去了解的掌握情況之下像這樣的狀況佔你的50萬噸的比例是多少你有做這樣的掌握嗎\n\n10\n00:03:12,099 --> 00:03:29,461\n因為我們這次風災現在無人機正在飛一天大概可以飛170公頃左右針對台南嘉義的地區雲林我們預計未來也會再飛目前我們現在重新再算因為現在是逐步的淘汰假設沒有損害是逐步淘汰假設沒有損害對不對\n\n11\n00:03:30,362 --> 00:03:54,403\n但是你們的定義裡面就是說如果現在屋頂看起來是好好的但也沒有去看它是不是有龜裂也沒有去看它是缺角那我們還是認定它是完美的完整的這個市面屋啊所以就不優先處理嘛就不優先在這次不優先處理部長你講這句話你應該是一個很精準做事情非常積極的一個部長這樣講話是不夠精準這樣是會有問題的啦對不對\n\n12\n00:03:56,665 --> 00:04:20,745\n難道你一定要等到有像這樣當作是颱風造成整個屋頂被吹翻了我們才去做後續的清理動作這緩不濟急啊或許會為死而完啊不應該是這麼處理嘛而且你的定義喔你的定義叫做完整的失眠屋瓦並無危害環境部持續宣導妥善處理嚴格稽查任意棄置這是你們講的八月二十二號講的嘛對不對\n\n13\n00:04:22,006 --> 00:04:36,102\n對啊我剛剛講的你怎麼去認定那個屋頂沒有歸列那個屋頂沒有缺角只要歸列缺角就說你部長你剛剛所講的他就不是一個完整的這個死免的屋瓦嘛對不對沒錯沒錯那要不要處理對要處理要處理嘛啊怎麼處理\n\n14\n00:04:37,243 --> 00:04:52,483\n基本上每一個縣市環保局他們都有一些清運的量那你可以跟他去做申請那基本上清運的費用就是我們政府會來...我知道部長但是如果照剛剛我依照雲林縣的案例講給你聽坦白講啦這100年都沒辦法處理完啦\n\n15\n00:04:56,288 --> 00:05:16,248\n全50萬噸在你部長可能不曉得要放幾噸之後還是一樣沒辦法處理完成那如果是這個情況之下我們中南部的百姓每天生命頂著世界衛生組織公認的一起出來那環境部立場是什麼環境部的基於做的是什麼\n\n16\n00:05:17,878 --> 00:05:36,885\n環境部目前只負責清運跟末端的處理那其他各部會包含教育部有學校的停車場包含經濟部管的工廠包含農業部管的畜牧業的這些廠房很多的時空卡早已歸類缺角要不要處理\n\n17\n00:05:39,072 --> 00:05:49,718\n這個大家都要來編列相關的經費來做拆除還有很多的民航難道要等到這次颱風吹了一堆火土的時候才要積極的面對處理嗎\n\n18\n00:05:51,533 --> 00:06:05,761\n所以我要求部長跟財政部因為房屋稅財政部跟地方要去做溝通內政部針對民房經濟部針對工廠農業部針對畜牧的廠房再來教育部針對學校的這些停車場去檢查到底有沒有歸類到底有沒有缺角是不是完整無壞的司法部長你才可以去講這些話不然這種話講出來你會傷到\n\n19\n00:06:18,393 --> 00:06:20,316\n一個月內一個星期內召集一個月內提出解決之道可以嗎好我們來試看看好謝謝謝謝建國委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n891\t7683\t好 謝謝主席那彭部長不想回去 彭部長就再回來吧好 那個環境部部長部長\n10504\t34284\t當然是颱風造成中南部地區的石棉瓦大量的這樣的一個損毀嘛那我們在特別預算裡邊的7億多要做清運 不含處理喔 對不對就清運 就要花7億嘛 是不是這樣那環境部的統計全台目前監測到的這個屬於這個石棉瓦在屋頂上的應該將近有50萬噸50萬噸 24萬噸\n38007\t38628\t20多萬噸 50萬噸嘛這是環境部的相關資料\n45831\t74316\t本縣啦 在我的母縣是55,991公噸然後從兩年前一直到目前為止才清除980幾噸等於不到1乘7啦不到1乘7那我們面對石冰瓦的這個狀況要去處理最主要它是世界衛生組織公認的一級的致癌物沒有錯嘛 對不對那也從小英就任的第二年開始\n75416\t91199\t等於在107年我們開始有政策要來處理這些石棉瓦那到現在已經114年已經過了7年時間能不能簡單說明一下總共50萬噸我們清理了幾噸包含處理大概15000多噸15000多噸算過來應該不到兩成多那你們預期的目標要把這50萬噸可以處理到結束\n103339\t132731\t要分幾年要多少預算大概要兩百億啦那也報告委員因為有損壞的石棉瓦才對健康有害那我們認為現在政府的預算壓力非常的大所以我們認為是說有需要的我們政府就會來做補助所以過去每年大概有兩三億的費用來進行這樣損壞的石棉瓦才算是有害沒有損壞的石棉瓦就不會有害對 等到需要拆除的時候就一併拆除這樣\n133811\t160616\t這個是後面的事情嘛那就從你對外8月25號環境部有對外說完整的石梅瓦基本上是無害的道理是一樣嘛是一致嘛但是石梅瓦經過風吹日曬可能會龜裂可能會出現有這個缺角這個都不會造成有害這個也算是在完全的石梅瓦深度無法嗎可以這麼認定嗎\n162217\t171313\t對 包委員大概就是說不是 不是 不是 對不起你回答我對人家的句話是是缺角歸類的算是完整的這個屋頂的石棉瓦嗎\n172582\t190217\t對 只要有裂掉或是漏水那歸裂 那個都算是有損害有損害嘛 那個就算有損害嘛 對不對對 那照理講現在我們去TEST我們去了解的掌握情況之下像這樣的狀況 佔你的50萬噸的比例是多少你有做這樣的掌握嗎\n192099\t209461\t因為我們這次風災現在無人機正在飛一天大概可以飛170公頃左右針對台南嘉義的地區雲林我們預計未來也會再飛目前我們現在重新再算因為現在是逐步的淘汰假設沒有損害是逐步淘汰假設沒有損害對不對\n210362\t234403\t但是你們的定義裡面就是說如果現在屋頂看起來是好好的但也沒有去看它是不是有龜裂也沒有去看它是缺角那我們還是認定它是完美的 完整的這個市面屋啊所以就不優先處理嘛就不優先 在這次不優先處理部長你講這句話你應該是一個很精準做事情非常積極的一個部長這樣講話是不夠精準這樣是會有問題的啦對不對\n236665\t260745\t難道你一定要等到有像這樣當作是颱風造成整個屋頂被吹翻了我們才去做後續的清理動作這緩不濟急啊或許會為死而完啊不應該是這麼處理嘛而且你的定義喔你的定義叫做完整的失眠屋瓦並無危害環境部持續宣導妥善處理嚴格稽查任意棄置這是你們講的 八月二十二號講的嘛對不對\n262006\t276102\t對啊我剛剛講的你怎麼去認定那個屋頂沒有歸列那個屋頂沒有缺角只要歸列缺角就說你部長你剛剛所講的他就不是一個完整的這個死免的屋瓦嘛對不對沒錯沒錯那要不要處理對要處理要處理嘛啊怎麼處理\n277243\t292483\t基本上每一個縣市環保局他們都有一些清運的量那你可以跟他去做申請那基本上清運的費用就是我們政府會來...我知道 部長但是如果照剛剛我依照雲林縣的案例講給你聽坦白講啦這100年都沒辦法處理完啦\n296288\t316248\t全50萬噸在你部長可能不曉得要放幾噸之後還是一樣沒辦法處理完成那如果是這個情況之下我們中南部的百姓每天生命頂著世界衛生組織公認的一起出來那環境部立場是什麼環境部的基於做的是什麼\n317878\t336885\t環境部目前只負責清運跟末端的處理那其他各部會包含教育部有學校的停車場包含經濟部管的工廠包含農業部管的畜牧業的這些廠房很多的時空卡早已歸類缺角要不要處理\n339072\t349718\t這個大家都要來編列相關的經費來做拆除還有很多的民航難道要等到這次颱風吹了一堆火土的時候才要積極的面對處理嗎\n351533\t365761\t所以我要求部長跟財政部因為房屋稅財政部跟地方要去做溝通內政部針對民房經濟部針對工廠農業部針對畜牧的廠房再來教育部針對學校的這些停車場去檢查到底有沒有歸類到底有沒有缺角是不是完整無壞的司法部長你才可以去講這些話不然這種話講出來你會傷到\n378393\t380316\t一個月內一個星期內召集一個月內提出解決之道 可以嗎好 我們來試看看好 謝謝謝謝建國委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席那彭部長不想回去 彭部長就再回來吧好 那個環境部部長部長\n當然是颱風造成中南部地區的石棉瓦大量的這樣的一個損毀嘛那我們在特別預算裡邊的7億多要做清運 不含處理喔 對不對就清運 就要花7億嘛 是不是這樣那環境部的統計全台目前監測到的這個屬於這個石棉瓦在屋頂上的應該將近有50萬噸50萬噸 24萬噸\n20多萬噸 50萬噸嘛這是環境部的相關資料\n本縣啦 在我的母縣是55,991公噸然後從兩年前一直到目前為止才清除980幾噸等於不到1乘7啦不到1乘7那我們面對石冰瓦的這個狀況要去處理最主要它是世界衛生組織公認的一級的致癌物沒有錯嘛 對不對那也從小英就任的第二年開始\n等於在107年我們開始有政策要來處理這些石棉瓦那到現在已經114年已經過了7年時間能不能簡單說明一下總共50萬噸我們清理了幾噸包含處理大概15000多噸15000多噸算過來應該不到兩成多那你們預期的目標要把這50萬噸可以處理到結束\n要分幾年要多少預算大概要兩百億啦那也報告委員因為有損壞的石棉瓦才對健康有害那我們認為現在政府的預算壓力非常的大所以我們認為是說有需要的我們政府就會來做補助所以過去每年大概有兩三億的費用來進行這樣損壞的石棉瓦才算是有害沒有損壞的石棉瓦就不會有害對 等到需要拆除的時候就一併拆除這樣\n這個是後面的事情嘛那就從你對外8月25號環境部有對外說完整的石梅瓦基本上是無害的道理是一樣嘛是一致嘛但是石梅瓦經過風吹日曬可能會龜裂可能會出現有這個缺角這個都不會造成有害這個也算是在完全的石梅瓦深度無法嗎可以這麼認定嗎\n對 包委員大概就是說不是 不是 不是 對不起你回答我對人家的句話是是缺角歸類的算是完整的這個屋頂的石棉瓦嗎\n對 只要有裂掉或是漏水那歸裂 那個都算是有損害有損害嘛 那個就算有損害嘛 對不對對 那照理講現在我們去TEST我們去了解的掌握情況之下像這樣的狀況 佔你的50萬噸的比例是多少你有做這樣的掌握嗎\n因為我們這次風災現在無人機正在飛一天大概可以飛170公頃左右針對台南嘉義的地區雲林我們預計未來也會再飛目前我們現在重新再算因為現在是逐步的淘汰假設沒有損害是逐步淘汰假設沒有損害對不對\n但是你們的定義裡面就是說如果現在屋頂看起來是好好的但也沒有去看它是不是有龜裂也沒有去看它是缺角那我們還是認定它是完美的 完整的這個市面屋啊所以就不優先處理嘛就不優先 在這次不優先處理部長你講這句話你應該是一個很精準做事情非常積極的一個部長這樣講話是不夠精準這樣是會有問題的啦對不對\n難道你一定要等到有像這樣當作是颱風造成整個屋頂被吹翻了我們才去做後續的清理動作這緩不濟急啊或許會為死而完啊不應該是這麼處理嘛而且你的定義喔你的定義叫做完整的失眠屋瓦並無危害環境部持續宣導妥善處理嚴格稽查任意棄置這是你們講的 八月二十二號講的嘛對不對\n對啊我剛剛講的你怎麼去認定那個屋頂沒有歸列那個屋頂沒有缺角只要歸列缺角就說你部長你剛剛所講的他就不是一個完整的這個死免的屋瓦嘛對不對沒錯沒錯那要不要處理對要處理要處理嘛啊怎麼處理\n基本上每一個縣市環保局他們都有一些清運的量那你可以跟他去做申請那基本上清運的費用就是我們政府會來...我知道 部長但是如果照剛剛我依照雲林縣的案例講給你聽坦白講啦這100年都沒辦法處理完啦\n全50萬噸在你部長可能不曉得要放幾噸之後還是一樣沒辦法處理完成那如果是這個情況之下我們中南部的百姓每天生命頂著世界衛生組織公認的一起出來那環境部立場是什麼環境部的基於做的是什麼\n環境部目前只負責清運跟末端的處理那其他各部會包含教育部有學校的停車場包含經濟部管的工廠包含農業部管的畜牧業的這些廠房很多的時空卡早已歸類缺角要不要處理\n這個大家都要來編列相關的經費來做拆除還有很多的民航難道要等到這次颱風吹了一堆火土的時候才要積極的面對處理嗎\n所以我要求部長跟財政部因為房屋稅財政部跟地方要去做溝通內政部針對民房經濟部針對工廠農業部針對畜牧的廠房再來教育部針對學校的這些停車場去檢查到底有沒有歸類到底有沒有缺角是不是完整無壞的司法部長你才可以去講這些話不然這種話講出來你會傷到\n一個月內一個星期內召集一個月內提出解決之道 可以嗎好 我們來試看看好 謝謝謝謝建國委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.891 --> 00:07.683\n好謝謝主席那彭部長不想回去彭部長就再回來吧好那個環境部部長部長\n\n00:10.504 --> 00:34.284\n當然是颱風造成中南部地區的石棉瓦大量的這樣的一個損毀嘛那我們在特別預算裡邊的7億多要做清運不含處理喔對不對就清運就要花7億嘛是不是這樣那環境部的統計全台目前監測到的這個屬於這個石棉瓦在屋頂上的應該將近有50萬噸50萬噸24萬噸\n\n00:38.007 --> 00:38.628\n20多萬噸50萬噸嘛這是環境部的相關資料\n\n00:45.831 --> 01:14.316\n本縣啦在我的母縣是55,991公噸然後從兩年前一直到目前為止才清除980幾噸等於不到1乘7啦不到1乘7那我們面對石冰瓦的這個狀況要去處理最主要它是世界衛生組織公認的一級的致癌物沒有錯嘛對不對那也從小英就任的第二年開始\n\n01:15.416 --> 01:31.199\n等於在107年我們開始有政策要來處理這些石棉瓦那到現在已經114年已經過了7年時間能不能簡單說明一下總共50萬噸我們清理了幾噸包含處理大概15000多噸15000多噸算過來應該不到兩成多那你們預期的目標要把這50萬噸可以處理到結束\n\n01:43.339 --> 02:12.731\n要分幾年要多少預算大概要兩百億啦那也報告委員因為有損壞的石棉瓦才對健康有害那我們認為現在政府的預算壓力非常的大所以我們認為是說有需要的我們政府就會來做補助所以過去每年大概有兩三億的費用來進行這樣損壞的石棉瓦才算是有害沒有損壞的石棉瓦就不會有害對等到需要拆除的時候就一併拆除這樣\n\n02:13.811 --> 02:40.616\n這個是後面的事情嘛那就從你對外8月25號環境部有對外說完整的石梅瓦基本上是無害的道理是一樣嘛是一致嘛但是石梅瓦經過風吹日曬可能會龜裂可能會出現有這個缺角這個都不會造成有害這個也算是在完全的石梅瓦深度無法嗎可以這麼認定嗎\n\n02:42.217 --> 02:51.313\n對包委員大概就是說不是不是不是對不起你回答我對人家的句話是是缺角歸類的算是完整的這個屋頂的石棉瓦嗎\n\n02:52.582 --> 03:10.217\n對只要有裂掉或是漏水那歸裂那個都算是有損害有損害嘛那個就算有損害嘛對不對對那照理講現在我們去TEST我們去了解的掌握情況之下像這樣的狀況佔你的50萬噸的比例是多少你有做這樣的掌握嗎\n\n03:12.099 --> 03:29.461\n因為我們這次風災現在無人機正在飛一天大概可以飛170公頃左右針對台南嘉義的地區雲林我們預計未來也會再飛目前我們現在重新再算因為現在是逐步的淘汰假設沒有損害是逐步淘汰假設沒有損害對不對\n\n03:30.362 --> 03:54.403\n但是你們的定義裡面就是說如果現在屋頂看起來是好好的但也沒有去看它是不是有龜裂也沒有去看它是缺角那我們還是認定它是完美的完整的這個市面屋啊所以就不優先處理嘛就不優先在這次不優先處理部長你講這句話你應該是一個很精準做事情非常積極的一個部長這樣講話是不夠精準這樣是會有問題的啦對不對\n\n03:56.665 --> 04:20.745\n難道你一定要等到有像這樣當作是颱風造成整個屋頂被吹翻了我們才去做後續的清理動作這緩不濟急啊或許會為死而完啊不應該是這麼處理嘛而且你的定義喔你的定義叫做完整的失眠屋瓦並無危害環境部持續宣導妥善處理嚴格稽查任意棄置這是你們講的八月二十二號講的嘛對不對\n\n04:22.006 --> 04:36.102\n對啊我剛剛講的你怎麼去認定那個屋頂沒有歸列那個屋頂沒有缺角只要歸列缺角就說你部長你剛剛所講的他就不是一個完整的這個死免的屋瓦嘛對不對沒錯沒錯那要不要處理對要處理要處理嘛啊怎麼處理\n\n04:37.243 --> 04:52.483\n基本上每一個縣市環保局他們都有一些清運的量那你可以跟他去做申請那基本上清運的費用就是我們政府會來...我知道部長但是如果照剛剛我依照雲林縣的案例講給你聽坦白講啦這100年都沒辦法處理完啦\n\n04:56.288 --> 05:16.248\n全50萬噸在你部長可能不曉得要放幾噸之後還是一樣沒辦法處理完成那如果是這個情況之下我們中南部的百姓每天生命頂著世界衛生組織公認的一起出來那環境部立場是什麼環境部的基於做的是什麼\n\n05:17.878 --> 05:36.885\n環境部目前只負責清運跟末端的處理那其他各部會包含教育部有學校的停車場包含經濟部管的工廠包含農業部管的畜牧業的這些廠房很多的時空卡早已歸類缺角要不要處理\n\n05:39.072 --> 05:49.718\n這個大家都要來編列相關的經費來做拆除還有很多的民航難道要等到這次颱風吹了一堆火土的時候才要積極的面對處理嗎\n\n05:51.533 --> 06:05.761\n所以我要求部長跟財政部因為房屋稅財政部跟地方要去做溝通內政部針對民房經濟部針對工廠農業部針對畜牧的廠房再來教育部針對學校的這些停車場去檢查到底有沒有歸類到底有沒有缺角是不是完整無壞的司法部長你才可以去講這些話不然這種話講出來你會傷到\n\n06:18.393 --> 06:20.316\n一個月內一個星期內召集一個月內提出解決之道可以嗎好我們來試看看好謝謝謝謝建國委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.891,"end":7.683,"text":"好 謝謝主席那彭部長不想回去 彭部長就再回來吧好 那個環境部部長部長"},{"start":10.504,"end":34.284,"text":"當然是颱風造成中南部地區的石棉瓦大量的這樣的一個損毀嘛那我們在特別預算裡邊的7億多要做清運 不含處理喔 對不對就清運 就要花7億嘛 是不是這樣那環境部的統計全台目前監測到的這個屬於這個石棉瓦在屋頂上的應該將近有50萬噸50萬噸 24萬噸"},{"start":38.007,"end":38.628,"text":"20多萬噸 50萬噸嘛這是環境部的相關資料"},{"start":45.831,"end":74.316,"text":"本縣啦 在我的母縣是55,991公噸然後從兩年前一直到目前為止才清除980幾噸等於不到1乘7啦不到1乘7那我們面對石冰瓦的這個狀況要去處理最主要它是世界衛生組織公認的一級的致癌物沒有錯嘛 對不對那也從小英就任的第二年開始"},{"start":75.416,"end":91.199,"text":"等於在107年我們開始有政策要來處理這些石棉瓦那到現在已經114年已經過了7年時間能不能簡單說明一下總共50萬噸我們清理了幾噸包含處理大概15000多噸15000多噸算過來應該不到兩成多那你們預期的目標要把這50萬噸可以處理到結束"},{"start":103.339,"end":132.731,"text":"要分幾年要多少預算大概要兩百億啦那也報告委員因為有損壞的石棉瓦才對健康有害那我們認為現在政府的預算壓力非常的大所以我們認為是說有需要的我們政府就會來做補助所以過去每年大概有兩三億的費用來進行這樣損壞的石棉瓦才算是有害沒有損壞的石棉瓦就不會有害對 等到需要拆除的時候就一併拆除這樣"},{"start":133.811,"end":160.616,"text":"這個是後面的事情嘛那就從你對外8月25號環境部有對外說完整的石梅瓦基本上是無害的道理是一樣嘛是一致嘛但是石梅瓦經過風吹日曬可能會龜裂可能會出現有這個缺角這個都不會造成有害這個也算是在完全的石梅瓦深度無法嗎可以這麼認定嗎"},{"start":162.217,"end":171.313,"text":"對 包委員大概就是說不是 不是 不是 對不起你回答我對人家的句話是是缺角歸類的算是完整的這個屋頂的石棉瓦嗎"},{"start":172.582,"end":190.217,"text":"對 只要有裂掉或是漏水那歸裂 那個都算是有損害有損害嘛 那個就算有損害嘛 對不對對 那照理講現在我們去TEST我們去了解的掌握情況之下像這樣的狀況 佔你的50萬噸的比例是多少你有做這樣的掌握嗎"},{"start":192.099,"end":209.461,"text":"因為我們這次風災現在無人機正在飛一天大概可以飛170公頃左右針對台南嘉義的地區雲林我們預計未來也會再飛目前我們現在重新再算因為現在是逐步的淘汰假設沒有損害是逐步淘汰假設沒有損害對不對"},{"start":210.362,"end":234.403,"text":"但是你們的定義裡面就是說如果現在屋頂看起來是好好的但也沒有去看它是不是有龜裂也沒有去看它是缺角那我們還是認定它是完美的 完整的這個市面屋啊所以就不優先處理嘛就不優先 在這次不優先處理部長你講這句話你應該是一個很精準做事情非常積極的一個部長這樣講話是不夠精準這樣是會有問題的啦對不對"},{"start":236.665,"end":260.745,"text":"難道你一定要等到有像這樣當作是颱風造成整個屋頂被吹翻了我們才去做後續的清理動作這緩不濟急啊或許會為死而完啊不應該是這麼處理嘛而且你的定義喔你的定義叫做完整的失眠屋瓦並無危害環境部持續宣導妥善處理嚴格稽查任意棄置這是你們講的 八月二十二號講的嘛對不對"},{"start":262.006,"end":276.102,"text":"對啊我剛剛講的你怎麼去認定那個屋頂沒有歸列那個屋頂沒有缺角只要歸列缺角就說你部長你剛剛所講的他就不是一個完整的這個死免的屋瓦嘛對不對沒錯沒錯那要不要處理對要處理要處理嘛啊怎麼處理"},{"start":277.243,"end":292.483,"text":"基本上每一個縣市環保局他們都有一些清運的量那你可以跟他去做申請那基本上清運的費用就是我們政府會來...我知道 部長但是如果照剛剛我依照雲林縣的案例講給你聽坦白講啦這100年都沒辦法處理完啦"},{"start":296.288,"end":316.248,"text":"全50萬噸在你部長可能不曉得要放幾噸之後還是一樣沒辦法處理完成那如果是這個情況之下我們中南部的百姓每天生命頂著世界衛生組織公認的一起出來那環境部立場是什麼環境部的基於做的是什麼"},{"start":317.878,"end":336.885,"text":"環境部目前只負責清運跟末端的處理那其他各部會包含教育部有學校的停車場包含經濟部管的工廠包含農業部管的畜牧業的這些廠房很多的時空卡早已歸類缺角要不要處理"},{"start":339.072,"end":349.718,"text":"這個大家都要來編列相關的經費來做拆除還有很多的民航難道要等到這次颱風吹了一堆火土的時候才要積極的面對處理嗎"},{"start":351.533,"end":365.761,"text":"所以我要求部長跟財政部因為房屋稅財政部跟地方要去做溝通內政部針對民房經濟部針對工廠農業部針對畜牧的廠房再來教育部針對學校的這些停車場去檢查到底有沒有歸類到底有沒有缺角是不是完整無壞的司法部長你才可以去講這些話不然這種話講出來你會傷到"},{"start":378.393,"end":380.316,"text":"一個月內一個星期內召集一個月內提出解決之道 可以嗎好 我們來試看看好 謝謝謝謝建國委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":1463,"blocks":[["劉委員建國：（13時56分）謝謝主席。彭部長不想回去，彭部長就再回來吧！"],["主席：請環境部部長。"],["劉委員建國：部長，丹娜絲颱風造成中南部地區的石綿瓦大量損毀，我們在特別預算裡編了七億多要做清運，不含處理喔！光清運就要花7億，是不是這樣？"],["彭部長啓明：是、是。"],["劉委員建國：環境部統計全臺目前監測到在屋頂上的石綿瓦應該將近有50萬噸。"],["彭部長啓明：50萬噸、24萬棟。"],["劉委員建國：50萬噸分布在二十多萬棟，這是環境部相關資料。在本縣我的母縣是5萬5,991公噸，從兩年前一直到目前為止，才清除九百八十幾噸，等於不到一成七！我們面對石綿瓦的狀況要去處理，最主要因為它是世界衛生組織公認的一級致癌物，沒有錯嘛？"],["彭部長啓明：對，沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：從小英就任的第二年開始，等於在107年，我們開始有政策要處理這些石綿瓦，到現在114年，已經過了7年時間，能不能簡單說明一下，總共50萬噸，你們清理了幾噸？包含處理。"],["彭部長啓明：大概一萬五千多噸。"],["劉委員建國：一萬五千多噸算下來應該不到兩成多。"],["彭部長啓明：對，應該不到兩成，一成左右。"],["劉委員建國：你們預期的目標，把這50萬噸處理到結束，要分幾年？要多少預算？"],["彭部長啓明：大概要200億，也報告委員，因為有損壞的石綿瓦才對健康有害，現在政府的預算壓力非常大，我們是認為有需要的，政府就會來做補助，過去每年大概有2、3億的費用來進行這樣的補助。"],["劉委員建國：損壞的石綿瓦才算是有害，沒有損害的石綿瓦就不會有害？"],["彭部長啓明：對，等到需要拆除的時候，就一併拆除。"],["劉委員建國：不，這個是後面的事情，8月25號環境部有對外說完整的石綿瓦基本上是無害，這道理是一樣嘛？是一致嘛？"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯，對、對、對。"],["劉委員建國：但是石綿瓦經過風吹日曬可能會龜裂、可能會出現缺角，這個都不會造成有害，這個也算是完整的石綿瓦、石綿屋瓦嗎？可以這麼認定嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：對，報告委員，大概就是說……"],["劉委員建國：對不起，你回答我對的那句話，是缺角、龜裂的算是完整屋頂的石綿瓦嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：對，只要有裂掉、漏水或是龜裂，都算是有損害，可能有健康風險。"],["劉委員建國：那個就算有損害嘛，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對、對、對。"],["劉委員建國：照理講，現在我們去test，我們去了解、掌握情況之下，像這樣狀況，占50萬噸的比率是多少？你有沒有掌握？有做這樣的掌握嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：因為這次風災現在無人機正在飛，一天大概可以飛170公頃左右，針對臺南、嘉義的地區，雲林我們預計未來也會再飛，目前我們正在重新再算，因為假設沒有損害，現在是逐步淘汰……"],["劉委員建國：假設沒有損害，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：對。"],["劉委員建國：但是你的定義是，如果現在屋頂看起來是好好的，但有沒有去看它是不是有龜裂、有沒有看它是不是缺角？我們還是認定它是完整的石綿屋瓦，所以就不能優先處理？"],["彭部長啓明：這次不優先處理。"],["劉委員建國：部長，你講這句話……你應該是一個很精準且做事情非常積極的一個部長，這樣講話不夠精準，這樣是會有問題的啊！難道你一定要等到有像丹娜絲颱風造成整個屋頂被吹翻了，我們才去做後續的清理動作，這緩不濟急啊！或許會為時已晚，不應該是這麼處理嘛！而且你的定義說完整的石綿屋瓦並無危害，環境部持續宣導妥善處理，嚴格稽查任意棄置，這是你們8月25號講的，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["劉委員建國：我剛剛講的，你怎麼去認定那個屋頂沒有龜裂，那個屋頂沒有缺角？只要龜裂、缺角就誠如部長你剛剛所講的，它就不是一個完整的石綿屋瓦，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：沒錯、沒錯。"],["劉委員建國：那個你要處理？"],["彭部長啓明：對，要處理。"],["劉委員建國：怎麼處理？"],["彭部長啓明：基本上，每一個縣市環保局，他們都有一些清運的量，你可以跟他去做申請，基本上清運的費用就是我們政府會出。"],["劉委員建國：我知道，部長，但是如果照剛剛我說的雲林縣的案例，坦白講，這樣100年都沒辦法處理完，對不對？"],["彭部長啓明：是。"],["劉委員建國：全國50萬噸，部長可能不曉得換了幾任，還是一樣沒辦法處理完成，如果是這個情況之下，我們中南部的百姓，每天上面頂著世界衛生組織公認的一級致癌物，環境部的立場是什麼？環境部的積極作為是什麼？環境部目前只負責清運跟末端的處理，其他各部會，包含教育部有學校的停車場，包含經濟部管的工廠，包含農業部管的畜牧業的廠房，很多石綿瓦早已龜裂、缺角，要不要處理？"],["彭部長啓明：這個大家都要編列相關的經費來做拆除……"],["劉委員建國：還有很多的民房，難道要等到下次颱風吹得一蹋糊塗之後，才要積極來面對處理嗎？所以我要求部長跟財政部，因為房屋稅，財政部跟地方要去做溝通；內政部針對民房；經濟部針對工廠；農業部針對畜牧的廠房；再來，教育部針對學校的這些停車場去檢查到底有沒有龜裂，到底有沒有缺角？是不是完整無害的石綿瓦？部長，你才可以去講這些話，不然這種話講出來，你會傷到……一個星期內召集，一個月內提出解決之道，可以嗎？"],["彭部長啓明：好，我們來試看看。"],["劉委員建國：好，謝謝。"],["彭部長啓明：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝建國委員，謝謝部長。因為石綿瓦確實是一個很辛苦、很難辦的事情，我覺得可能要借助跨部會的協助。","接著請陳秀寳、陳秀寳、陳秀寳委員不在。","邱志偉、邱志偉、邱志偉委員不在。","許宇甄、許宇甄、許宇甄委員不在。","今天登記發言的委員均已詢答完畢。","現在進行預算的提案處理，請議事人員宣讀今日審查案的審查項目跟提案，共62案，預計宣讀的時間是40分鐘，宣讀完畢以後大概是2點40分，我們要進行協商，如果沒有預算提案的機關單位，可以先行安靜的離開。","一、預算數：","二、提案："]],"agenda":{"page_end":248,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,19,22,23,26-1","speakers":["賴惠員","林德福","吳秉叡","陳亭妃","賴士葆","郭國文","林思銘","蘇巧慧","林宜瑾","楊瓊瓔","張智倫","黃珊珊","鄭正鈐","張啓楷","林俊憲","鍾佳濱","羅廷瑋","李昆澤","黃秀芳","李坤城","張宏陸","黃捷","陳玉珍","謝衣鳯","牛煦庭","王育敏","李彥秀","張雅琳","許智傑","蔡易餘","賴瑞隆","徐富癸","范雲","王正旭","郭昱晴","林月琴","蘇清泉","李柏毅","吳沛憶","陳菁徽","葉元之","劉建國","高金素梅","蔡其昌","邱議瑩","魯明哲","徐欣瑩","劉書彬","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","呂玉玲","王美惠","陳素月","游顥","陳超明","萬美玲","廖偉翔","邱志偉","張嘉郡","洪孟楷","黃健豪","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","林淑芬","吳琪銘","許宇甄","黃建賓","陳昭姿"],"page_start":59,"meetingDate":["2025-08-27"],"gazette_id":"1147601","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147601_00003"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、內政、經濟、教育及文化、交通、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查行政院函請審議「中央政府丹娜絲颱風及七二八豪雨災後復原重建特別預算案」","agenda_id":"1147601_00002"}}}