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就是那個監察委員是紀律委員會沒有錯那我現在請教就是說因為《陳情法》24條它是說院長部長發現所屬公務員有這些問題的時候那要送 那我想請教一下如果今天違法的是院長或部長的話那應該是誰送他自己送自己\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 142.803, \"end\": 142.943, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 142.943, \"end\": 143.404, \"score\": 0.99}, {\"word\": \"如\", \"start\": 143.404, \"end\": 143.544, \"score\": 0.985}, {\"word\": \"果\", \"start\": 143.544, \"end\": 143.684, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 143.684, \"end\": 144.845, \"score\": 0.986}, {\"word\": \"本\", \"start\": 144.845, \"end\": 145.005, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 145.005, \"end\": 145.145, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 145.145, \"end\": 145.285, \"score\": 0.987}, {\"word\": \"話\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 145.285, \"end\": 145.805, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 145.805, \"end\": 146.066, \"score\": 0.997}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 146.066, \"end\": 146.546, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.892}, {\"word\": \"煩\"}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"察\", \"start\": 733.123, \"end\": 733.263, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 733.263, \"end\": 733.744, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"邊\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 733.744, \"end\": 733.764, \"score\": 0.216}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,050 --> 00:00:19,692\n我們麻煩全區部次長還有婦人市長先上台那待會也會請教秘書長秘書長先等一下好委員長各位早安辛苦了\n\n2\n00:00:21,714 --> 00:00:35,398\n我想先請教次長那個次長懷市長懷市長你是那個基層公務員出身的嗎是的從委任公務員開始做起好因為我有聽您講過那我想請問一下\n\n3\n00:00:37,319 --> 00:00:57,897\n那您也有當過常任文官也有當任過政務官嘛對不對是好那我請問一下就是依照我們現在的公務員服務法政務人員他到底需不需要依法行政要要嘛我想說這個依法行政是公務員的基本要求啦所以才會寫在公務員服務法的第一條嘛\n\n4\n00:00:58,678 --> 00:01:21,059\n那我請問一下這個依法行政的這個法是不是指的是立法院通過總統公布的這個法律公務員就有遵守的義務是就他執行業務的時候他譬如說假設有些作用法規或他自己內部在法體系裡面內部的這些行政規則行政命令啊等等他就如果有明文規定這個他就應該要照規定來執行好好\n\n5\n00:01:21,559 --> 00:01:50,206\n那監察院有派人來嗎我請問一下但是我不知道這個部分跟你的業務有沒有關係我想請問一下監察院就是政務官一樣受公務員懲戒法的規範對不對那政務人員如果他不依法行政那發生公務員懲戒法第二條的情勢的時候是不是要照樣要送懲戒\n\n6\n00:01:51,326 --> 00:02:16,734\n是好那我再請問一下那依據公務員懲戒法24條如果是院長部長發現公務員有第二條所定的刑事的時候那這時候應由他的機關具備文件序名是有然後連同證據送到那個監察院審查嗎但是呢如果今天犯錯的是院長或部長的話那要誰送\n\n7\n00:02:22,803 --> 00:02:50,944\n這個部分如果在本院的話我們有那個紀律我們有自律委員會所以這個要自律委員會去審查我知道就是那個監察委員是紀律委員會沒有錯那我現在請教就是說因為《陳情法》24條它是說院長部長發現所屬公務員有這些問題的時候那要送那我想請教一下如果今天違法的是院長或部長的話那應該是誰送他自己送自己\n\n8\n00:02:54,062 --> 00:03:11,068\n好沒關係那這可能這個是不是沒辦法回答這個可能要請懲戒法的那個主管請好那沒關係那今天沒有辦法回答這樣我了解了好那今天我們現在發現了一個問題就是說我們本來認為說依法行政這是國家\n\n9\n00:03:12,128 --> 00:03:24,343\n尤其行政機關最該有的基本但是我們今天看到從剛剛的幾位委員的質詢我們發現一件事情三讀通過的法律在我國行政院可以帶頭不執行\n\n10\n00:03:25,970 --> 00:03:42,875\n我再講一次三讀通過的法律而且還沒有被大法官宣告違憲或視為暫時處分要求這個東西不可以做之前行政院可以違憲違法的不執行那請問一下監察院有沒有看到這個問題\n\n11\n00:03:46,049 --> 00:04:05,198\n這個部分可能還是要從那個確實的去認定那這樣還是等於沒有回答嘛那其實我剛一開始我就有講到說其實權力分立的概念現在現代化國家都有權力分立的概念不管是三權分立還是五權分立他就是怕國家走向專制跟集權嘛\n\n12\n00:04:05,738 --> 00:04:34,155\n所以他不希望由行政權把司法權或行政權把立法權都包括在裡面的這三權分立國家所有三權分立國家都這個概念但我們今天看到的是行政權好像直接把所有的權都包括在裡面的那今天行政權照理說他不能夠不執行立法院三讀通過的法案他是沒有權力選擇我愛做不做他只有義務去遵守已經通過的法律\n\n13\n00:04:34,955 --> 00:04:59,689\n但是呢今天行政院院長跟我國的總統直接出來告訴大家三讀通過的法律我也懶得管我等釋憲結果出來我再決定要不要做這不是就一個違法最基本違法的ABC就出來了嗎我想全國的法律學者不會有人認同總統跟行政院院長這句話那請問監察院哪裡去了\n\n14\n00:05:00,919 --> 00:05:20,075\n如果監察權覺得自己還是個監察院貴院總是來這邊跟我們說監察院有存在的必要但是當事情發生的時候卻監察院永遠看不到人這是我對於監察院一直以來無法理解的部分我再跟各位報告任何一個法律\n\n15\n00:05:20,996 --> 00:05:45,373\n任何一個法律當你被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律在你被大法官要求你暫停使用之前你就必須要執行並沒有我提出申請或我提出釋憲我就可以不做行政院從來沒有這種權利各國也沒有這樣的制度這個制度會出現在哪裡就是專制國家\n\n16\n00:05:46,835 --> 00:05:56,226\n總統或行政院長一個人說了算的國家才會這樣所以今天行政院長以及我國總統完美詮釋了我們是一個專制國家\n\n17\n00:05:57,836 --> 00:06:24,736\n所以才會有法律三讀通過之後行政權可以說我就不執行啊然後還有更荒謬的也是從官員口中講出來的說如果我這些錦銷的錢我編下去以後如果改天大法官宣告違憲那我怎麼辦我怎麼追回來我不是違憲的這更胡說八道任何一個法律在被宣告違憲的那一天之前的任何作為都叫做合法行為\n\n18\n00:06:25,456 --> 00:06:49,465\n而是被宣告違憲那一天開始這條法律不能用這是所有法律人法律學者都知道的ABC結果今天在我國竟然被行政官員出來說我發了啊大法官如果說我違憲怎麼辦沒有怎麼辦你就必須就是要依法行政我想我今天講這個東西完全是最基本大一法律學生都懂的東西但在我國\n\n19\n00:06:51,587 --> 00:07:07,577\n總統行政院長可以出來帶頭騙全體國人這就是為什麼我一直覺得監察行政院的作為我們立法院本來應該要予以監督但是我們今天看到是立法委員爭相的護航\n\n20\n00:07:08,772 --> 00:07:33,280\n那這個叫做民主國家嗎不是吧這個叫做專制國家民進黨在野的時候也是扮演好他監督的責任所以民進黨在野的時候他對國民黨執政的時候的多加批判那就是盡了他的所有的職務我們都非常的敬佩民進黨在野時候的作為但當民進黨執政的時候卻不允許在野黨去對他加以監督所以這個\n\n21\n00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:54,902\n越走越回去了把台灣走回專制的時代這我沒有辦法接受所以我在這邊跟各位說不管剛羅志強委員講或是剛黃國昌委員他們所提到的警消人員加薪的部分我再說一次三讀通過的法律在被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律\n\n22\n00:07:56,112 --> 00:08:14,065\n不管行政院有沒有提出釋憲有沒有提出暫時處分的申請只要法官還沒有下裁定或判決之前你就必須要履行那在這個地方的履行跟執行是什麼就是編列預算在這個地方就是編列預算好第二個\n\n23\n00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:37,454\n絕對不存在這些官員所說的如果我發了改天大法官宣告違憲之後那這些錢怎麼辦也沒有那種事因為我國的制度以及全世界的制度都一樣只要他被宣告違憲之前的所有作為都是合法作為不存在要不要追回的問題要不要把錢追回的問題也不存在之前發的錢是違憲的問題\n\n24\n00:08:39,395 --> 00:09:04,184\n所以我國有非常多的法律曾經被宣告違憲但是它在違憲之前的法官所有依法的判決都不會發生冤獄賠償等等的事由存在這個是法律ABC請這些政客們請這些行政院的高官們不要出來騙全體國人不要總是把法律ABC我跟你講這國家唸法律的人很多啦然後各大學法律通識課程也有\n\n25\n00:09:05,325 --> 00:09:29,281\n如果你們以為騙國人騙一騙國人就會被騙你這次就不會罷免搞得這麼難看你就不會我今天早上看到今天早上的那個民調總統的滿意度還有集團院長滿意度已經低到我覺得不可思議的程度了國人沒有那麼好騙啦我覺得該做的是我們必須依法的行政我在講剛剛我提到\n\n26\n00:09:31,383 --> 00:09:46,397\n剛我提到那個剛一開始我發現說我提到孟德斯鳩其實孟德斯鳩還有一句話很重要他說真正的自由是法律底下的自由也就是我們人在爭取自由的時候我們只能爭取法律之下的自由而不是超越法律的自由\n\n27\n00:09:47,615 --> 00:10:16,798\n這西方三權分立之父孟德斯有所說的話這在我國也是適用啊怎麼會現在從行政院長總統帶頭在那邊造謠騙人說謊毀憲亂政我每一個都可以講出條文以及依據但是這些政客們這些高官們永遠講不出依據只在那邊胡說八道那個喔我想喔憲判九號喔如果你們去看一下內容也是打臉了這次的卓院長他其實有提到\n\n28\n00:10:18,686 --> 00:10:44,945\n行政院在立法院憲法上所應負的政治責任其實最終是對民意負責憲判久有講到最近台大那個教授原決案也有提到就是說卓榮泰如果不下台其實他首先被打臉的是憲法法庭我覺得我這只是引述他們的話我想要跟各位報告我覺得這段時間國家整個荒謬還有整個國家行政機關為了搞他那個所謂的大罷免\n\n29\n00:10:46,618 --> 00:11:14,468\n部會首長院長總統出來不停地造謠講那什麼團結思想裡面錯誤擺出的造謠不要說我亂講每一個東西我都可以把它點出來這是我的個性我也都把它點出來它依據是什麼為什麼是說謊我一個一個都點出來所以我還是覺得各位監察院這邊請注意一下請監察院注意既然我們的行政院院長\n\n30\n00:11:16,189 --> 00:11:18,500\n他都带头在那边违法\n\n31\n00:11:19,687 --> 00:11:46,601\n那是不是你應該要思考一下監察院要不要有所動作我不是要你們一定要辦到一定要懲戒行政院長而是你們總是要進行調查也許調查之後發現國人是對院長誤會了那你們還他一個清白也是好事我也樂見但是應該還是要有所動作就我講的行政院依法行政是你的義務不是你的權利當今天立法院三讀通過的法律\n\n32\n00:11:47,341 --> 00:12:13,764\n竟然行政院可以說我要事先終我申請暫時處分所以我不用執行我國以及全世界都沒有這樣的制度如果有請拿出來打臉我我最喜歡講這句話我如果有這樣的制度請拿出來打臉我否則請依法行政如果連這樣子都不懂的話我們怎麼會是法治國怎麼會是一個法律底下的自由好那個再麻煩監察院這邊好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1050\t19692\t我們麻煩全區部次長還有婦人市長先上台那待會也會請教秘書長 秘書長先等一下好 委員長各位早安 辛苦了\n21714\t35398\t我想先請教次長那個次長 懷市長懷市長你是那個基層公務員出身的嗎是的 從委任公務員開始做起好 因為我有聽您講過那我想請問一下\n37319\t57897\t那您也有當過常任文官也有當任過政務官嘛 對不對是好 那我請問一下就是依照我們現在的公務員服務法政務人員他到底需不需要依法行政要要嘛我想說這個依法行政是公務員的基本要求啦所以才會寫在公務員服務法的第一條嘛\n58678\t81059\t那我請問一下這個依法行政的這個法是不是指的是立法院通過總統公布的這個法律公務員就有遵守的義務是 就他執行業務的時候他譬如說假設有些作用法規或他自己內部在法體系裡面內部的這些行政規則行政命令啊等等他就如果有明文規定這個他就應該要照規定來執行好 好\n81559\t110206\t那監察院有派人來嗎我請問一下但是我不知道這個部分跟你的業務有沒有關係我想請問一下監察院就是政務官一樣受公務員懲戒法的規範對不對那政務人員如果他不依法行政那發生公務員懲戒法第二條的情勢的時候是不是要照樣要送懲戒\n111326\t136734\t是好那我再請問一下那依據公務員懲戒法24條如果是院長部長發現公務員有第二條所定的刑事的時候那這時候應由他的機關具備文件序名是有然後連同證據送到那個監察院審查嗎但是呢如果今天犯錯的是院長或部長的話那要誰送\n142803\t170944\t這個部分如果在本院的話我們有那個紀律 我們有自律委員會所以這個要自律委員會去審查我知道 就是那個監察委員是紀律委員會沒有錯那我現在請教就是說因為《陳情法》24條它是說院長部長發現所屬公務員有這些問題的時候那要送 那我想請教一下如果今天違法的是院長或部長的話那應該是誰送他自己送自己\n174062\t191068\t好 沒關係 那這可能這個是不是沒辦法回答這個可能要請懲戒法的那個主管請好 那沒關係 那今天沒有辦法回答這樣我了解了好 那今天我們現在發現了一個問題就是說我們本來認為說依法行政這是國家\n192128\t204343\t尤其行政機關最該有的基本但是我們今天看到從剛剛的幾位委員的質詢我們發現一件事情三讀通過的法律在我國行政院可以帶頭不執行\n205970\t222875\t我再講一次三讀通過的法律而且還沒有被大法官宣告違憲或視為暫時處分要求這個東西不可以做之前行政院可以違憲違法的不執行那請問一下監察院有沒有看到這個問題\n226049\t245198\t這個部分可能還是要從那個確實的去認定那這樣還是等於沒有回答嘛那其實我剛一開始我就有講到說其實權力分立的概念現在現代化國家都有權力分立的概念不管是三權分立還是五權分立他就是怕國家走向專制跟集權嘛\n245738\t274155\t所以他不希望由行政權把司法權或行政權把立法權都包括在裡面的這三權分立國家所有三權分立國家都這個概念但我們今天看到的是行政權好像直接把所有的權都包括在裡面的那今天行政權照理說他不能夠不執行立法院三讀通過的法案他是沒有權力選擇我愛做不做他只有義務去遵守已經通過的法律\n274955\t299689\t但是呢今天行政院院長跟我國的總統直接出來告訴大家三讀通過的法律我也懶得管我等釋憲結果出來我再決定要不要做這不是就一個違法最基本違法的ABC就出來了嗎我想全國的法律學者不會有人認同總統跟行政院院長這句話那請問監察院哪裡去了\n300919\t320075\t如果監察權覺得自己還是個監察院貴院總是來這邊跟我們說監察院有存在的必要但是當事情發生的時候卻監察院永遠看不到人這是我對於監察院一直以來無法理解的部分我再跟各位報告任何一個法律\n320996\t345373\t任何一個法律當你被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律在你被大法官要求你暫停使用之前你就必須要執行並沒有我提出申請或我提出釋憲我就可以不做行政院從來沒有這種權利各國也沒有這樣的制度這個制度會出現在哪裡就是專制國家\n346835\t356226\t總統或行政院長一個人說了算的國家才會這樣所以今天行政院長以及我國總統完美詮釋了我們是一個專制國家\n357836\t384736\t所以才會有法律三讀通過之後行政權可以說 我就不執行啊然後還有更荒謬的也是從官員口中講出來的說如果我這些錦銷的錢我編下去以後如果改天大法官宣告違憲那我怎麼辦 我怎麼追回來我不是違憲的這更胡說八道任何一個法律在被宣告違憲的那一天之前的任何作為都叫做合法行為\n385456\t409465\t而是被宣告違憲那一天開始這條法律不能用這是所有法律人法律學者都知道的ABC結果今天在我國竟然被行政官員出來說我發了啊 大法官如果說我違憲怎麼辦沒有怎麼辦你就必須就是要依法行政我想我今天講這個東西完全是最基本大一法律學生都懂的東西 但在我國\n411587\t427577\t總統行政院長可以出來帶頭騙全體國人這就是為什麼我一直覺得監察行政院的作為我們立法院本來應該要予以監督但是我們今天看到是立法委員爭相的護航\n428772\t453280\t那這個叫做民主國家嗎不是吧 這個叫做專制國家民進黨在野的時候也是扮演好他監督的責任所以民進黨在野的時候他對國民黨執政的時候的多加批判那就是盡了他的所有的職務我們都非常的敬佩民進黨在野時候的作為但當民進黨執政的時候卻不允許在野黨去對他加以監督所以這個\n454640\t474902\t越走越回去了把台灣走回專制的時代這我沒有辦法接受所以我在這邊跟各位說不管剛羅志強委員講或是剛黃國昌委員他們所提到的警消人員加薪的部分我再說一次三讀通過的法律在被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律\n476112\t494065\t不管行政院有沒有提出釋憲有沒有提出暫時處分的申請只要法官還沒有下裁定或判決之前你就必須要履行那在這個地方的履行跟執行是什麼就是編列預算在這個地方就是編列預算好 第二個\n495920\t517454\t絕對不存在這些官員所說的如果我發了改天大法官宣告違憲之後那這些錢怎麼辦也沒有那種事因為我國的制度以及全世界的制度都一樣只要他被宣告違憲之前的所有作為都是合法作為不存在要不要追回的問題要不要把錢追回的問題也不存在之前發的錢是違憲的問題\n519395\t544184\t所以我國有非常多的法律曾經被宣告違憲但是它在違憲之前的法官所有依法的判決都不會發生冤獄賠償等等的事由存在這個是法律ABC請這些政客們 請這些行政院的高官們不要出來騙全體國人不要總是把法律ABC 我跟你講這國家唸法律的人很多啦然後各大學法律通識課程也有\n545325\t569281\t如果你們以為騙國人騙一騙國人就會被騙你這次就不會罷免搞得這麼難看你就不會我今天早上看到今天早上的那個民調總統的滿意度還有集團院長滿意度已經低到我覺得不可思議的程度了國人沒有那麼好騙啦我覺得該做的是我們必須依法的行政我在講剛剛我提到\n571383\t586397\t剛我提到那個 剛一開始我發現說我提到孟德斯鳩其實孟德斯鳩還有一句話很重要他說真正的自由是法律底下的自由也就是我們人在爭取自由的時候我們只能爭取法律之下的自由而不是超越法律的自由\n587615\t616798\t這西方三權分立之父孟德斯有所說的話這在我國也是適用啊怎麼會現在從行政院長總統帶頭在那邊造謠騙人 說謊 毀憲亂政我每一個都可以講出條文以及依據但是這些政客們 這些高官們永遠講不出依據 只在那邊胡說八道那個喔 我想喔 憲判九號喔如果你們去看一下內容也是打臉了這次的卓院長 他其實有提到\n618686\t644945\t行政院在立法院 憲法上所應負的政治責任其實最終是對民意負責 憲判久有講到最近台大那個教授原決案也有提到 就是說卓榮泰如果不下台 其實他首先被打臉的是憲法法庭我覺得我這只是引述他們的話 我想要跟各位報告我覺得這段時間國家整個荒謬 還有整個國家行政機關為了搞他那個所謂的大罷免\n646618\t674468\t部會首長 院長 總統出來不停地造謠講那什麼團結思想裡面錯誤擺出的造謠不要說我亂講每一個東西我都可以把它點出來這是我的個性 我也都把它點出來它依據是什麼 為什麼是說謊我一個一個都點出來所以我還是覺得各位 監察院這邊請注意一下 請監察院注意既然我們的行政院院長\n676189\t678500\t他都带头在那边违法\n679687\t706601\t那是不是你應該要思考一下監察院要不要有所動作我不是要你們一定要辦到一定要懲戒行政院長而是你們總是要進行調查也許調查之後發現國人是對院長誤會了那你們還他一個清白也是好事我也樂見但是應該還是要有所動作就我講的行政院依法行政是你的義務不是你的權利當今天立法院三讀通過的法律\n707341\t733764\t竟然行政院可以說我要事先終我申請暫時處分所以我不用執行我國以及全世界都沒有這樣的制度如果有請拿出來打臉我我最喜歡講這句話我如果有這樣的制度請拿出來打臉我否則請依法行政如果連這樣子都不懂的話我們怎麼會是法治國怎麼會是一個法律底下的自由好 那個再麻煩監察院這邊好 謝謝\n","txt":"我們麻煩全區部次長還有婦人市長先上台那待會也會請教秘書長 秘書長先等一下好 委員長各位早安 辛苦了\n我想先請教次長那個次長 懷市長懷市長你是那個基層公務員出身的嗎是的 從委任公務員開始做起好 因為我有聽您講過那我想請問一下\n那您也有當過常任文官也有當任過政務官嘛 對不對是好 那我請問一下就是依照我們現在的公務員服務法政務人員他到底需不需要依法行政要要嘛我想說這個依法行政是公務員的基本要求啦所以才會寫在公務員服務法的第一條嘛\n那我請問一下這個依法行政的這個法是不是指的是立法院通過總統公布的這個法律公務員就有遵守的義務是 就他執行業務的時候他譬如說假設有些作用法規或他自己內部在法體系裡面內部的這些行政規則行政命令啊等等他就如果有明文規定這個他就應該要照規定來執行好 好\n那監察院有派人來嗎我請問一下但是我不知道這個部分跟你的業務有沒有關係我想請問一下監察院就是政務官一樣受公務員懲戒法的規範對不對那政務人員如果他不依法行政那發生公務員懲戒法第二條的情勢的時候是不是要照樣要送懲戒\n是好那我再請問一下那依據公務員懲戒法24條如果是院長部長發現公務員有第二條所定的刑事的時候那這時候應由他的機關具備文件序名是有然後連同證據送到那個監察院審查嗎但是呢如果今天犯錯的是院長或部長的話那要誰送\n這個部分如果在本院的話我們有那個紀律 我們有自律委員會所以這個要自律委員會去審查我知道 就是那個監察委員是紀律委員會沒有錯那我現在請教就是說因為《陳情法》24條它是說院長部長發現所屬公務員有這些問題的時候那要送 那我想請教一下如果今天違法的是院長或部長的話那應該是誰送他自己送自己\n好 沒關係 那這可能這個是不是沒辦法回答這個可能要請懲戒法的那個主管請好 那沒關係 那今天沒有辦法回答這樣我了解了好 那今天我們現在發現了一個問題就是說我們本來認為說依法行政這是國家\n尤其行政機關最該有的基本但是我們今天看到從剛剛的幾位委員的質詢我們發現一件事情三讀通過的法律在我國行政院可以帶頭不執行\n我再講一次三讀通過的法律而且還沒有被大法官宣告違憲或視為暫時處分要求這個東西不可以做之前行政院可以違憲違法的不執行那請問一下監察院有沒有看到這個問題\n這個部分可能還是要從那個確實的去認定那這樣還是等於沒有回答嘛那其實我剛一開始我就有講到說其實權力分立的概念現在現代化國家都有權力分立的概念不管是三權分立還是五權分立他就是怕國家走向專制跟集權嘛\n所以他不希望由行政權把司法權或行政權把立法權都包括在裡面的這三權分立國家所有三權分立國家都這個概念但我們今天看到的是行政權好像直接把所有的權都包括在裡面的那今天行政權照理說他不能夠不執行立法院三讀通過的法案他是沒有權力選擇我愛做不做他只有義務去遵守已經通過的法律\n但是呢今天行政院院長跟我國的總統直接出來告訴大家三讀通過的法律我也懶得管我等釋憲結果出來我再決定要不要做這不是就一個違法最基本違法的ABC就出來了嗎我想全國的法律學者不會有人認同總統跟行政院院長這句話那請問監察院哪裡去了\n如果監察權覺得自己還是個監察院貴院總是來這邊跟我們說監察院有存在的必要但是當事情發生的時候卻監察院永遠看不到人這是我對於監察院一直以來無法理解的部分我再跟各位報告任何一個法律\n任何一個法律當你被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律在你被大法官要求你暫停使用之前你就必須要執行並沒有我提出申請或我提出釋憲我就可以不做行政院從來沒有這種權利各國也沒有這樣的制度這個制度會出現在哪裡就是專制國家\n總統或行政院長一個人說了算的國家才會這樣所以今天行政院長以及我國總統完美詮釋了我們是一個專制國家\n所以才會有法律三讀通過之後行政權可以說 我就不執行啊然後還有更荒謬的也是從官員口中講出來的說如果我這些錦銷的錢我編下去以後如果改天大法官宣告違憲那我怎麼辦 我怎麼追回來我不是違憲的這更胡說八道任何一個法律在被宣告違憲的那一天之前的任何作為都叫做合法行為\n而是被宣告違憲那一天開始這條法律不能用這是所有法律人法律學者都知道的ABC結果今天在我國竟然被行政官員出來說我發了啊 大法官如果說我違憲怎麼辦沒有怎麼辦你就必須就是要依法行政我想我今天講這個東西完全是最基本大一法律學生都懂的東西 但在我國\n總統行政院長可以出來帶頭騙全體國人這就是為什麼我一直覺得監察行政院的作為我們立法院本來應該要予以監督但是我們今天看到是立法委員爭相的護航\n那這個叫做民主國家嗎不是吧 這個叫做專制國家民進黨在野的時候也是扮演好他監督的責任所以民進黨在野的時候他對國民黨執政的時候的多加批判那就是盡了他的所有的職務我們都非常的敬佩民進黨在野時候的作為但當民進黨執政的時候卻不允許在野黨去對他加以監督所以這個\n越走越回去了把台灣走回專制的時代這我沒有辦法接受所以我在這邊跟各位說不管剛羅志強委員講或是剛黃國昌委員他們所提到的警消人員加薪的部分我再說一次三讀通過的法律在被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律\n不管行政院有沒有提出釋憲有沒有提出暫時處分的申請只要法官還沒有下裁定或判決之前你就必須要履行那在這個地方的履行跟執行是什麼就是編列預算在這個地方就是編列預算好 第二個\n絕對不存在這些官員所說的如果我發了改天大法官宣告違憲之後那這些錢怎麼辦也沒有那種事因為我國的制度以及全世界的制度都一樣只要他被宣告違憲之前的所有作為都是合法作為不存在要不要追回的問題要不要把錢追回的問題也不存在之前發的錢是違憲的問題\n所以我國有非常多的法律曾經被宣告違憲但是它在違憲之前的法官所有依法的判決都不會發生冤獄賠償等等的事由存在這個是法律ABC請這些政客們 請這些行政院的高官們不要出來騙全體國人不要總是把法律ABC 我跟你講這國家唸法律的人很多啦然後各大學法律通識課程也有\n如果你們以為騙國人騙一騙國人就會被騙你這次就不會罷免搞得這麼難看你就不會我今天早上看到今天早上的那個民調總統的滿意度還有集團院長滿意度已經低到我覺得不可思議的程度了國人沒有那麼好騙啦我覺得該做的是我們必須依法的行政我在講剛剛我提到\n剛我提到那個 剛一開始我發現說我提到孟德斯鳩其實孟德斯鳩還有一句話很重要他說真正的自由是法律底下的自由也就是我們人在爭取自由的時候我們只能爭取法律之下的自由而不是超越法律的自由\n這西方三權分立之父孟德斯有所說的話這在我國也是適用啊怎麼會現在從行政院長總統帶頭在那邊造謠騙人 說謊 毀憲亂政我每一個都可以講出條文以及依據但是這些政客們 這些高官們永遠講不出依據 只在那邊胡說八道那個喔 我想喔 憲判九號喔如果你們去看一下內容也是打臉了這次的卓院長 他其實有提到\n行政院在立法院 憲法上所應負的政治責任其實最終是對民意負責 憲判久有講到最近台大那個教授原決案也有提到 就是說卓榮泰如果不下台 其實他首先被打臉的是憲法法庭我覺得我這只是引述他們的話 我想要跟各位報告我覺得這段時間國家整個荒謬 還有整個國家行政機關為了搞他那個所謂的大罷免\n部會首長 院長 總統出來不停地造謠講那什麼團結思想裡面錯誤擺出的造謠不要說我亂講每一個東西我都可以把它點出來這是我的個性 我也都把它點出來它依據是什麼 為什麼是說謊我一個一個都點出來所以我還是覺得各位 監察院這邊請注意一下 請監察院注意既然我們的行政院院長\n他都带头在那边违法\n那是不是你應該要思考一下監察院要不要有所動作我不是要你們一定要辦到一定要懲戒行政院長而是你們總是要進行調查也許調查之後發現國人是對院長誤會了那你們還他一個清白也是好事我也樂見但是應該還是要有所動作就我講的行政院依法行政是你的義務不是你的權利當今天立法院三讀通過的法律\n竟然行政院可以說我要事先終我申請暫時處分所以我不用執行我國以及全世界都沒有這樣的制度如果有請拿出來打臉我我最喜歡講這句話我如果有這樣的制度請拿出來打臉我否則請依法行政如果連這樣子都不懂的話我們怎麼會是法治國怎麼會是一個法律底下的自由好 那個再麻煩監察院這邊好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.050 --> 00:19.692\n我們麻煩全區部次長還有婦人市長先上台那待會也會請教秘書長秘書長先等一下好委員長各位早安辛苦了\n\n00:21.714 --> 00:35.398\n我想先請教次長那個次長懷市長懷市長你是那個基層公務員出身的嗎是的從委任公務員開始做起好因為我有聽您講過那我想請問一下\n\n00:37.319 --> 00:57.897\n那您也有當過常任文官也有當任過政務官嘛對不對是好那我請問一下就是依照我們現在的公務員服務法政務人員他到底需不需要依法行政要要嘛我想說這個依法行政是公務員的基本要求啦所以才會寫在公務員服務法的第一條嘛\n\n00:58.678 --> 01:21.059\n那我請問一下這個依法行政的這個法是不是指的是立法院通過總統公布的這個法律公務員就有遵守的義務是就他執行業務的時候他譬如說假設有些作用法規或他自己內部在法體系裡面內部的這些行政規則行政命令啊等等他就如果有明文規定這個他就應該要照規定來執行好好\n\n01:21.559 --> 01:50.206\n那監察院有派人來嗎我請問一下但是我不知道這個部分跟你的業務有沒有關係我想請問一下監察院就是政務官一樣受公務員懲戒法的規範對不對那政務人員如果他不依法行政那發生公務員懲戒法第二條的情勢的時候是不是要照樣要送懲戒\n\n01:51.326 --> 02:16.734\n是好那我再請問一下那依據公務員懲戒法24條如果是院長部長發現公務員有第二條所定的刑事的時候那這時候應由他的機關具備文件序名是有然後連同證據送到那個監察院審查嗎但是呢如果今天犯錯的是院長或部長的話那要誰送\n\n02:22.803 --> 02:50.944\n這個部分如果在本院的話我們有那個紀律我們有自律委員會所以這個要自律委員會去審查我知道就是那個監察委員是紀律委員會沒有錯那我現在請教就是說因為《陳情法》24條它是說院長部長發現所屬公務員有這些問題的時候那要送那我想請教一下如果今天違法的是院長或部長的話那應該是誰送他自己送自己\n\n02:54.062 --> 03:11.068\n好沒關係那這可能這個是不是沒辦法回答這個可能要請懲戒法的那個主管請好那沒關係那今天沒有辦法回答這樣我了解了好那今天我們現在發現了一個問題就是說我們本來認為說依法行政這是國家\n\n03:12.128 --> 03:24.343\n尤其行政機關最該有的基本但是我們今天看到從剛剛的幾位委員的質詢我們發現一件事情三讀通過的法律在我國行政院可以帶頭不執行\n\n03:25.970 --> 03:42.875\n我再講一次三讀通過的法律而且還沒有被大法官宣告違憲或視為暫時處分要求這個東西不可以做之前行政院可以違憲違法的不執行那請問一下監察院有沒有看到這個問題\n\n03:46.049 --> 04:05.198\n這個部分可能還是要從那個確實的去認定那這樣還是等於沒有回答嘛那其實我剛一開始我就有講到說其實權力分立的概念現在現代化國家都有權力分立的概念不管是三權分立還是五權分立他就是怕國家走向專制跟集權嘛\n\n04:05.738 --> 04:34.155\n所以他不希望由行政權把司法權或行政權把立法權都包括在裡面的這三權分立國家所有三權分立國家都這個概念但我們今天看到的是行政權好像直接把所有的權都包括在裡面的那今天行政權照理說他不能夠不執行立法院三讀通過的法案他是沒有權力選擇我愛做不做他只有義務去遵守已經通過的法律\n\n04:34.955 --> 04:59.689\n但是呢今天行政院院長跟我國的總統直接出來告訴大家三讀通過的法律我也懶得管我等釋憲結果出來我再決定要不要做這不是就一個違法最基本違法的ABC就出來了嗎我想全國的法律學者不會有人認同總統跟行政院院長這句話那請問監察院哪裡去了\n\n05:00.919 --> 05:20.075\n如果監察權覺得自己還是個監察院貴院總是來這邊跟我們說監察院有存在的必要但是當事情發生的時候卻監察院永遠看不到人這是我對於監察院一直以來無法理解的部分我再跟各位報告任何一個法律\n\n05:20.996 --> 05:45.373\n任何一個法律當你被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律在你被大法官要求你暫停使用之前你就必須要執行並沒有我提出申請或我提出釋憲我就可以不做行政院從來沒有這種權利各國也沒有這樣的制度這個制度會出現在哪裡就是專制國家\n\n05:46.835 --> 05:56.226\n總統或行政院長一個人說了算的國家才會這樣所以今天行政院長以及我國總統完美詮釋了我們是一個專制國家\n\n05:57.836 --> 06:24.736\n所以才會有法律三讀通過之後行政權可以說我就不執行啊然後還有更荒謬的也是從官員口中講出來的說如果我這些錦銷的錢我編下去以後如果改天大法官宣告違憲那我怎麼辦我怎麼追回來我不是違憲的這更胡說八道任何一個法律在被宣告違憲的那一天之前的任何作為都叫做合法行為\n\n06:25.456 --> 06:49.465\n而是被宣告違憲那一天開始這條法律不能用這是所有法律人法律學者都知道的ABC結果今天在我國竟然被行政官員出來說我發了啊大法官如果說我違憲怎麼辦沒有怎麼辦你就必須就是要依法行政我想我今天講這個東西完全是最基本大一法律學生都懂的東西但在我國\n\n06:51.587 --> 07:07.577\n總統行政院長可以出來帶頭騙全體國人這就是為什麼我一直覺得監察行政院的作為我們立法院本來應該要予以監督但是我們今天看到是立法委員爭相的護航\n\n07:08.772 --> 07:33.280\n那這個叫做民主國家嗎不是吧這個叫做專制國家民進黨在野的時候也是扮演好他監督的責任所以民進黨在野的時候他對國民黨執政的時候的多加批判那就是盡了他的所有的職務我們都非常的敬佩民進黨在野時候的作為但當民進黨執政的時候卻不允許在野黨去對他加以監督所以這個\n\n07:34.640 --> 07:54.902\n越走越回去了把台灣走回專制的時代這我沒有辦法接受所以我在這邊跟各位說不管剛羅志強委員講或是剛黃國昌委員他們所提到的警消人員加薪的部分我再說一次三讀通過的法律在被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律\n\n07:56.112 --> 08:14.065\n不管行政院有沒有提出釋憲有沒有提出暫時處分的申請只要法官還沒有下裁定或判決之前你就必須要履行那在這個地方的履行跟執行是什麼就是編列預算在這個地方就是編列預算好第二個\n\n08:15.920 --> 08:37.454\n絕對不存在這些官員所說的如果我發了改天大法官宣告違憲之後那這些錢怎麼辦也沒有那種事因為我國的制度以及全世界的制度都一樣只要他被宣告違憲之前的所有作為都是合法作為不存在要不要追回的問題要不要把錢追回的問題也不存在之前發的錢是違憲的問題\n\n08:39.395 --> 09:04.184\n所以我國有非常多的法律曾經被宣告違憲但是它在違憲之前的法官所有依法的判決都不會發生冤獄賠償等等的事由存在這個是法律ABC請這些政客們請這些行政院的高官們不要出來騙全體國人不要總是把法律ABC我跟你講這國家唸法律的人很多啦然後各大學法律通識課程也有\n\n09:05.325 --> 09:29.281\n如果你們以為騙國人騙一騙國人就會被騙你這次就不會罷免搞得這麼難看你就不會我今天早上看到今天早上的那個民調總統的滿意度還有集團院長滿意度已經低到我覺得不可思議的程度了國人沒有那麼好騙啦我覺得該做的是我們必須依法的行政我在講剛剛我提到\n\n09:31.383 --> 09:46.397\n剛我提到那個剛一開始我發現說我提到孟德斯鳩其實孟德斯鳩還有一句話很重要他說真正的自由是法律底下的自由也就是我們人在爭取自由的時候我們只能爭取法律之下的自由而不是超越法律的自由\n\n09:47.615 --> 10:16.798\n這西方三權分立之父孟德斯有所說的話這在我國也是適用啊怎麼會現在從行政院長總統帶頭在那邊造謠騙人說謊毀憲亂政我每一個都可以講出條文以及依據但是這些政客們這些高官們永遠講不出依據只在那邊胡說八道那個喔我想喔憲判九號喔如果你們去看一下內容也是打臉了這次的卓院長他其實有提到\n\n10:18.686 --> 10:44.945\n行政院在立法院憲法上所應負的政治責任其實最終是對民意負責憲判久有講到最近台大那個教授原決案也有提到就是說卓榮泰如果不下台其實他首先被打臉的是憲法法庭我覺得我這只是引述他們的話我想要跟各位報告我覺得這段時間國家整個荒謬還有整個國家行政機關為了搞他那個所謂的大罷免\n\n10:46.618 --> 11:14.468\n部會首長院長總統出來不停地造謠講那什麼團結思想裡面錯誤擺出的造謠不要說我亂講每一個東西我都可以把它點出來這是我的個性我也都把它點出來它依據是什麼為什麼是說謊我一個一個都點出來所以我還是覺得各位監察院這邊請注意一下請監察院注意既然我們的行政院院長\n\n11:16.189 --> 11:18.500\n他都带头在那边违法\n\n11:19.687 --> 11:46.601\n那是不是你應該要思考一下監察院要不要有所動作我不是要你們一定要辦到一定要懲戒行政院長而是你們總是要進行調查也許調查之後發現國人是對院長誤會了那你們還他一個清白也是好事我也樂見但是應該還是要有所動作就我講的行政院依法行政是你的義務不是你的權利當今天立法院三讀通過的法律\n\n11:47.341 --> 12:13.764\n竟然行政院可以說我要事先終我申請暫時處分所以我不用執行我國以及全世界都沒有這樣的制度如果有請拿出來打臉我我最喜歡講這句話我如果有這樣的制度請拿出來打臉我否則請依法行政如果連這樣子都不懂的話我們怎麼會是法治國怎麼會是一個法律底下的自由好那個再麻煩監察院這邊好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.05,"end":19.692,"text":"我們麻煩全區部次長還有婦人市長先上台那待會也會請教秘書長 秘書長先等一下好 委員長各位早安 辛苦了"},{"start":21.714,"end":35.398,"text":"我想先請教次長那個次長 懷市長懷市長你是那個基層公務員出身的嗎是的 從委任公務員開始做起好 因為我有聽您講過那我想請問一下"},{"start":37.319,"end":57.897,"text":"那您也有當過常任文官也有當任過政務官嘛 對不對是好 那我請問一下就是依照我們現在的公務員服務法政務人員他到底需不需要依法行政要要嘛我想說這個依法行政是公務員的基本要求啦所以才會寫在公務員服務法的第一條嘛"},{"start":58.678,"end":81.059,"text":"那我請問一下這個依法行政的這個法是不是指的是立法院通過總統公布的這個法律公務員就有遵守的義務是 就他執行業務的時候他譬如說假設有些作用法規或他自己內部在法體系裡面內部的這些行政規則行政命令啊等等他就如果有明文規定這個他就應該要照規定來執行好 好"},{"start":81.559,"end":110.206,"text":"那監察院有派人來嗎我請問一下但是我不知道這個部分跟你的業務有沒有關係我想請問一下監察院就是政務官一樣受公務員懲戒法的規範對不對那政務人員如果他不依法行政那發生公務員懲戒法第二條的情勢的時候是不是要照樣要送懲戒"},{"start":111.326,"end":136.734,"text":"是好那我再請問一下那依據公務員懲戒法24條如果是院長部長發現公務員有第二條所定的刑事的時候那這時候應由他的機關具備文件序名是有然後連同證據送到那個監察院審查嗎但是呢如果今天犯錯的是院長或部長的話那要誰送"},{"start":142.803,"end":170.944,"text":"這個部分如果在本院的話我們有那個紀律 我們有自律委員會所以這個要自律委員會去審查我知道 就是那個監察委員是紀律委員會沒有錯那我現在請教就是說因為《陳情法》24條它是說院長部長發現所屬公務員有這些問題的時候那要送 那我想請教一下如果今天違法的是院長或部長的話那應該是誰送他自己送自己"},{"start":174.062,"end":191.068,"text":"好 沒關係 那這可能這個是不是沒辦法回答這個可能要請懲戒法的那個主管請好 那沒關係 那今天沒有辦法回答這樣我了解了好 那今天我們現在發現了一個問題就是說我們本來認為說依法行政這是國家"},{"start":192.128,"end":204.343,"text":"尤其行政機關最該有的基本但是我們今天看到從剛剛的幾位委員的質詢我們發現一件事情三讀通過的法律在我國行政院可以帶頭不執行"},{"start":205.97,"end":222.875,"text":"我再講一次三讀通過的法律而且還沒有被大法官宣告違憲或視為暫時處分要求這個東西不可以做之前行政院可以違憲違法的不執行那請問一下監察院有沒有看到這個問題"},{"start":226.049,"end":245.198,"text":"這個部分可能還是要從那個確實的去認定那這樣還是等於沒有回答嘛那其實我剛一開始我就有講到說其實權力分立的概念現在現代化國家都有權力分立的概念不管是三權分立還是五權分立他就是怕國家走向專制跟集權嘛"},{"start":245.738,"end":274.155,"text":"所以他不希望由行政權把司法權或行政權把立法權都包括在裡面的這三權分立國家所有三權分立國家都這個概念但我們今天看到的是行政權好像直接把所有的權都包括在裡面的那今天行政權照理說他不能夠不執行立法院三讀通過的法案他是沒有權力選擇我愛做不做他只有義務去遵守已經通過的法律"},{"start":274.955,"end":299.689,"text":"但是呢今天行政院院長跟我國的總統直接出來告訴大家三讀通過的法律我也懶得管我等釋憲結果出來我再決定要不要做這不是就一個違法最基本違法的ABC就出來了嗎我想全國的法律學者不會有人認同總統跟行政院院長這句話那請問監察院哪裡去了"},{"start":300.919,"end":320.075,"text":"如果監察權覺得自己還是個監察院貴院總是來這邊跟我們說監察院有存在的必要但是當事情發生的時候卻監察院永遠看不到人這是我對於監察院一直以來無法理解的部分我再跟各位報告任何一個法律"},{"start":320.996,"end":345.373,"text":"任何一個法律當你被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律在你被大法官要求你暫停使用之前你就必須要執行並沒有我提出申請或我提出釋憲我就可以不做行政院從來沒有這種權利各國也沒有這樣的制度這個制度會出現在哪裡就是專制國家"},{"start":346.835,"end":356.226,"text":"總統或行政院長一個人說了算的國家才會這樣所以今天行政院長以及我國總統完美詮釋了我們是一個專制國家"},{"start":357.836,"end":384.736,"text":"所以才會有法律三讀通過之後行政權可以說 我就不執行啊然後還有更荒謬的也是從官員口中講出來的說如果我這些錦銷的錢我編下去以後如果改天大法官宣告違憲那我怎麼辦 我怎麼追回來我不是違憲的這更胡說八道任何一個法律在被宣告違憲的那一天之前的任何作為都叫做合法行為"},{"start":385.456,"end":409.465,"text":"而是被宣告違憲那一天開始這條法律不能用這是所有法律人法律學者都知道的ABC結果今天在我國竟然被行政官員出來說我發了啊 大法官如果說我違憲怎麼辦沒有怎麼辦你就必須就是要依法行政我想我今天講這個東西完全是最基本大一法律學生都懂的東西 但在我國"},{"start":411.587,"end":427.577,"text":"總統行政院長可以出來帶頭騙全體國人這就是為什麼我一直覺得監察行政院的作為我們立法院本來應該要予以監督但是我們今天看到是立法委員爭相的護航"},{"start":428.772,"end":453.28,"text":"那這個叫做民主國家嗎不是吧 這個叫做專制國家民進黨在野的時候也是扮演好他監督的責任所以民進黨在野的時候他對國民黨執政的時候的多加批判那就是盡了他的所有的職務我們都非常的敬佩民進黨在野時候的作為但當民進黨執政的時候卻不允許在野黨去對他加以監督所以這個"},{"start":454.64,"end":474.902,"text":"越走越回去了把台灣走回專制的時代這我沒有辦法接受所以我在這邊跟各位說不管剛羅志強委員講或是剛黃國昌委員他們所提到的警消人員加薪的部分我再說一次三讀通過的法律在被大法官宣告違憲之前它就是一個有效的法律"},{"start":476.112,"end":494.065,"text":"不管行政院有沒有提出釋憲有沒有提出暫時處分的申請只要法官還沒有下裁定或判決之前你就必須要履行那在這個地方的履行跟執行是什麼就是編列預算在這個地方就是編列預算好 第二個"},{"start":495.92,"end":517.454,"text":"絕對不存在這些官員所說的如果我發了改天大法官宣告違憲之後那這些錢怎麼辦也沒有那種事因為我國的制度以及全世界的制度都一樣只要他被宣告違憲之前的所有作為都是合法作為不存在要不要追回的問題要不要把錢追回的問題也不存在之前發的錢是違憲的問題"},{"start":519.395,"end":544.184,"text":"所以我國有非常多的法律曾經被宣告違憲但是它在違憲之前的法官所有依法的判決都不會發生冤獄賠償等等的事由存在這個是法律ABC請這些政客們 請這些行政院的高官們不要出來騙全體國人不要總是把法律ABC 我跟你講這國家唸法律的人很多啦然後各大學法律通識課程也有"},{"start":545.325,"end":569.281,"text":"如果你們以為騙國人騙一騙國人就會被騙你這次就不會罷免搞得這麼難看你就不會我今天早上看到今天早上的那個民調總統的滿意度還有集團院長滿意度已經低到我覺得不可思議的程度了國人沒有那麼好騙啦我覺得該做的是我們必須依法的行政我在講剛剛我提到"},{"start":571.383,"end":586.397,"text":"剛我提到那個 剛一開始我發現說我提到孟德斯鳩其實孟德斯鳩還有一句話很重要他說真正的自由是法律底下的自由也就是我們人在爭取自由的時候我們只能爭取法律之下的自由而不是超越法律的自由"},{"start":587.615,"end":616.798,"text":"這西方三權分立之父孟德斯有所說的話這在我國也是適用啊怎麼會現在從行政院長總統帶頭在那邊造謠騙人 說謊 毀憲亂政我每一個都可以講出條文以及依據但是這些政客們 這些高官們永遠講不出依據 只在那邊胡說八道那個喔 我想喔 憲判九號喔如果你們去看一下內容也是打臉了這次的卓院長 他其實有提到"},{"start":618.686,"end":644.945,"text":"行政院在立法院 憲法上所應負的政治責任其實最終是對民意負責 憲判久有講到最近台大那個教授原決案也有提到 就是說卓榮泰如果不下台 其實他首先被打臉的是憲法法庭我覺得我這只是引述他們的話 我想要跟各位報告我覺得這段時間國家整個荒謬 還有整個國家行政機關為了搞他那個所謂的大罷免"},{"start":646.618,"end":674.468,"text":"部會首長 院長 總統出來不停地造謠講那什麼團結思想裡面錯誤擺出的造謠不要說我亂講每一個東西我都可以把它點出來這是我的個性 我也都把它點出來它依據是什麼 為什麼是說謊我一個一個都點出來所以我還是覺得各位 監察院這邊請注意一下 請監察院注意既然我們的行政院院長"},{"start":676.189,"end":678.5,"text":"他都带头在那边违法"},{"start":679.687,"end":706.601,"text":"那是不是你應該要思考一下監察院要不要有所動作我不是要你們一定要辦到一定要懲戒行政院長而是你們總是要進行調查也許調查之後發現國人是對院長誤會了那你們還他一個清白也是好事我也樂見但是應該還是要有所動作就我講的行政院依法行政是你的義務不是你的權利當今天立法院三讀通過的法律"},{"start":707.341,"end":733.764,"text":"竟然行政院可以說我要事先終我申請暫時處分所以我不用執行我國以及全世界都沒有這樣的制度如果有請拿出來打臉我我最喜歡講這句話我如果有這樣的制度請拿出來打臉我否則請依法行政如果連這樣子都不懂的話我們怎麼會是法治國怎麼會是一個法律底下的自由好 那個再麻煩監察院這邊好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":344,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（9時55分）麻煩銓敘部次長，還有副人事長先上臺，待會兒也會請教秘書長，但秘書長先等一下。"],["懷次長敍：委員早。"],["吳委員宗憲：各位早安，辛苦了。我想先請教次長，懷次長，你是基層公務員出身的嗎？"],["懷次長敍：是的，從委任公務員開始做起。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我有聽您講過。我想請問一下，您有當過常任文官，也有擔任過政務官，對不對？"],["懷次長敍：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：我請問一下，依照現在的公務員服務法，政務人員到底須不須依法行政？"],["懷次長敍：要。"],["吳委員宗憲：我想依法行政是公務員的基本要求，所以才會寫在公務員服務法的第一條。我請問一下依法行政的這個法，指的是不是立法院通過、總統公布的法律，公務員就有遵守的義務？"],["懷次長敍：是，就是他執行業務的時候，假設有些作用法規或在法體系裡面內部的行政規則、行政命令等等，如果有明文規定，他就應該要照規定來執行。"],["吳委員宗憲：好、好。今天監察院有派人來嗎？我請問一下，但是我不知道這個部分跟你的業務有沒有關係，我想請問監察院，政務官一樣受公務員懲戒法的規範，對不對？"],["黃處長奕元：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：如果政務人員不依法行政，發生公務員懲戒法第二條情事的時候，是不是照樣要送懲戒？"],["黃處長奕元：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：我再請問一下，依據公務員懲戒法第二十四條，如果是院長、部長發現公務員有第二條所訂情事的時候，這時候應由他的機關具備文件、敘明事由，然後連同證據送請監察院審查。如果今天犯錯的是院長或部長的話，要誰送？"],["黃處長奕元：這個部分，如果在本院的話，我們有紀律委員會，所以紀律委員會就會去審查。"],["吳委員宗憲：我知道監察委員是紀律委員會，沒有錯。我現在請教是說，因為懲罪法第二十四條是說院長、部長發現所屬公務員有這些問題的時候要送，我想請教一下，如果今天違法的是院長或部長的話，應該是誰送？還是自己送自己？好，沒關係，這是不是沒辦法回答？"],["黃處長奕元：這個可能要請懲戒法的主管機關……"],["吳委員宗憲：沒關係，今天沒有辦法回答，這樣我瞭解了。現在發現了一個問題，我們本來認為依法行政是國家，最該有的基本，尤其是行政機關，但是今天從剛剛看到幾位委員的質詢，發現一件事情，在我國三讀通過的法律，行政院可以帶頭不執行。我再講一次，三讀通過的法律，而且還沒有被大法官宣告違憲，或視為暫時處分要求這個東西不可以做之前，行政院可以違憲、違法的不執行。請問一下，監察院有沒有看到這個問題？"],["黃處長奕元：這個部分可能還是要確實的去認定，到底是不是有這樣子的狀況……"],["吳委員宗憲：好，這樣等於還是沒有回答。其實我剛剛一開始就有講到，現在現代化國家都有權力分立的概念，不管是三權分立還是五權分立，就是怕國家走向專制跟集權，所以不希望由行政權把司法權，或行政權把立法權都包括在裡面了，所有三權分立國家都有這個概念。我們今天看到的是行政權好像直接把所有權都包括在裡面了，照理說，行政權不能夠不執行立法院三讀通過的法案，他沒有權力選擇他愛做不做，他只有義務去遵守已經通過的法律，但是今天行政院院長跟我國的總統直接出來告訴大家，三讀通過的法律，我也懶得管！我等釋憲結果出來，我再決定要不要做！這不就是一個最基本違法的ABC就出來了嗎？我想全國的法律學者不會有人認同總統跟行政院長這句話，請問監察院哪裡去了？如果監察權覺得自己還是監察院，貴院總是來這邊跟我們說監察院有存在的必要，但是當事情發生的時候，監察院卻永遠看不到人，這是我對於監察院一直以來無法理解的部分。","我再跟各位報告，任何一個法律在被大法官宣告違憲之前，它就是一個有效的法律，在被大法官要求暫停使用之前就必須要執行，並沒有提出聲請或提出釋憲就可以不做的，行政院從來沒有這種權力！各國也沒有這樣的制度！這制度會出現在哪裡？就是專制國家，總統或行政院院長一個人說了算的國家才會這樣。今天行政院長及我國總統完美詮釋了我們是一個專制國家，才會有法律三讀通過之後，行政權可以說不執行的，然後還有更荒謬的，也是從官員口中講出來的，說如果這些警消的錢編下去以後，改天大法官宣告違憲，那我怎麼辦？我怎麼追回來？我不就違憲了？這更胡說八道！任何一個法律在被宣告違憲的那一天之前，任何作為都叫做合法行為，只有從被宣告違憲那一天開始，這條法律不能用。這是所有法律人、法律學者都知道的ABC，結果今天在我國，竟然有行政官員出來說，如果我發了，大法官說我違憲怎麼辦？沒有怎麼辦，你就必須要依法行政。我想我今天講這個東西完全是大一法律系學生最基本都懂的東西，但在我國，總統、行政院院長可以帶頭出來騙全體國人，這就是為什麼我一直覺得行政院的作為，立法院本來應該要予以監督的原因，但是我們今天看到立法委員爭相護航，這個叫做民主國家嗎？不是吧？這個叫做專制國家耶。民進黨在野的時候也是扮演好監督的角色，民進黨在野的時候對於國民黨執政的多加批判，就是盡了他的所有責任，我們都非常的敬佩民進黨在野時候的作為，但當民進黨執政的時候，卻不允許在野黨對他加以監督，越走越回去了，把臺灣帶回專制的時代，這我沒有辦法接受。我在這邊跟各位說，不管剛剛羅智強委員或黃國昌委員所提到的警消人員加薪，我再說一次，三讀通過的法律在被大法官宣告違憲之前，它就是一個有效的法律，不管行政院有沒有提出釋憲、有沒有提出暫時處分的聲請，只要法官還沒有下裁定或判決之前，你就必須要履行，那在這個地方的履行跟執行是什麼？就是編列預算！第二個，絕對不存在這些官員所說的，如果發了，改天大法官宣告違憲之後，這些錢怎麼辦？也沒有那種事，因為我國的制度及全世界的制度都一樣，在法律被宣告違憲之前的所有作為都是合法作為，不存在要不要把錢追回的問題，也不存在之前發錢是違憲的問題。我國有非常多的法律曾經被宣告違憲，但是它在違憲之前，法官所有依法的判決都不會存在冤獄賠償等等的事由，這個是法律ABC，請這些政客們！請這些行政院的高官們！不要出來騙全體國人。我跟你講，這個國家念法律的人很多，各大學法律通識課程也有，如果你們以為騙一騙國人，國人就會被騙，這次罷免就不會搞得這麼難看。我看到今天早上的民調，總統的滿意度還有行政院院長的滿意度已經低到我覺得不可思議的程度了，國人沒有那麼好騙，我覺得該做的事，我們必須依法來行政。","剛剛一開始我發言的時候提到孟德斯鳩，其實孟德斯鳩還有一句話很重要，他說真正的自由是法律底下的自由，也就是人在爭取自由的時候，我們只能爭取法律之下的自由，而不是超越法律的自由，這是西方三權分立之父孟德斯鳩所說的話，這在我國也適用，怎麼會現在從行政院院長、總統帶頭在那邊造謠、騙人、說謊、毀憲亂政？每一個我都可以講出條文及依據，但是這些政客們、這些高官們永遠講不出依據，只在那邊胡說八道！我想憲判9號，如果你們去看一下內容，也是打臉了這次的卓院長，該判決提到行政院跟立法院根據憲法所應負的政治責任，其實最終是對民意負責；最近臺大教授顏厥安也提到，卓榮泰如果不下臺，首先被打臉的是憲法法庭。我只是引述他們的話，我想要跟各位報告，我覺得這段時間國家整個荒謬，整個國家行政機關為了搞所謂的大罷免，部會首長、院長、總統出來不停的造謠，那個什麼「團結十講」裡面錯誤百出的造謠。不要說我亂講，每一個東西我都可以把它點出來，這是我的個性，我也都把它點出來，它的依據是什麼、為什麼是說謊，我一個一個都點出來。","我還是請監察院注意，既然行政院院長都帶頭在那邊違法，那監察院是不是應該思考一下要不要有所動作？我不是要你們一定要辦倒、一定要懲戒行政院長，而是你們總是要進行調查，也許調查之後發現國人是誤會院長了，那你們還他一個清白，也是好事啊！我也樂見，但是還是應該要有所動作。就我講的行政院依法行政是義務，不是權利，今天立法院三讀通過的法律，行政院竟然可以說他要釋憲，聲請暫時處分，所以不用執行，我國及全世界都沒有這樣的制度，如果有請拿出來打臉我。我最喜歡講這句話，如果有這樣的制度，請拿出來打臉我，否則請依法行政。如果連這樣子都不懂的話，我們怎麼會是法治國？怎麼會有法律底下的自由？再麻煩監察院，謝謝。"],["黃處長奕元：是。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲）：下一位請王義川委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":450,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-25","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","羅智強","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","沈發惠","范雲"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2025-08-28"],"gazette_id":"1147602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147602_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續併案審查(一)考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員\n邱志偉等21人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「公\n務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二\n條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員范雲等17人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條、第十一條及第十二條\n條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「政務人員行為基準法草案」案","agenda_id":"1147602_00003"}}}