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{\"word\": \"簡\"}, {\"word\": \"單\"}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"講\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 278.428, \"end\": 278.448, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"完\", \"start\": 278.448, \"end\": 278.488, \"score\": 0.498}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 278.488, \"end\": 278.508, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,009 --> 00:00:01,810\n我們請陳主席長那個黃國昌委員回來一下好不好委員好好主席長好我想我還是要特別問到預算法第79條根據你的法律專業你的這個專業來說這次追加預算到底是它的合理性跟它的正當性到底符合79條的哪一個要件\n\n2\n00:00:28,731 --> 00:00:56,242\n這個部分有一部分譬如說我們的原民會的淨化補償它是依照符合哪一個四款裡面哪一個要件我告訴你這是每個人都要去追問就是它的釋法性的問題因為你這次預算你這次預算高達878億元其中最大比的636億元它是一般性補助款已經條文明明告訴你它就是一個法律性的義務的支出而且已經三度通過總統公告了那你現在把它追加回來\n\n3\n00:00:57,102 --> 00:01:06,445\n我個人覺得這就好像是你把地方真的是把他先餓死了你再給他糖吃或者是你先揍一頓再給他貼布一樣這對我們來說這是一個違法的一件事情好那現在呢因為地方政府嗷嗷待哺也不想讓他們為難所以有可能在這六三六一當中呢我們把他補回來但是我只要請問這個組計長那原本要求你們去做自行調整刪減的這個項目到底在哪裡\n\n4\n00:01:25,371 --> 00:01:44,030\n給你追加回去那你原來本來是叫你要來做你到底放在哪裡本來是3-939嘛那我們3-939沒有這631到底調整放在哪裡哪一個調整6316361可能立法院會把它追加通過但是這個本來就叫你要自行調整的你的項目是放在什麼地方\n\n5\n00:01:44,932 --> 00:02:01,846\n一般縣市補助的部分你應該放到什麼地方我的時間的關係我要求主計長你必須要把你自行調整刪減的部分一定要有一份報告告訴我們這是我們的天職要來監督你這個部分調節的部分在什麼地方當初通案刪減939那我們除了刪減304億之外現在636就是沒有辦法刪減所以才會\n\n6\n00:02:08,531 --> 00:02:35,071\n好吧沒有辦法深言不分你條例給我嘛我只能告訴你這6361因為地方的需求我們要我只要奉勸主席長真的心中要有主計不能只有算計這是非常非常重要的最重要是我們從來沒有算計過我們是依法行事你沒有完全沒有依法因為過去這整個條文過來好那主席長你先暫時留著我是不是時間暫停我們請那個我們的李紀勇我們的中選會的李紀勇主委過來一下好中選會的李主委時間暫停了他走路時間來請\n\n7\n00:02:41,977 --> 00:03:04,376\n也請主席長一起主席長也一起委員好是這一次我們的公投將罷免共計花的15億4,324萬其中大部分的部分這個錢都是由我們的第二預備金來支出嗎沒有錯吧公投跟罷免都是第二預備金嗎什麼時候通過的什麼時候已經給了你的預備金\n\n8\n00:03:06,926 --> 00:03:14,533\n都已經撥了8月15號嘛都已經撥的錢也用完了那我請問這次追加預算當中為什麼中選會還是一模一樣的還是BNA的15億4324錢不都用完了嗎還剩下4個月的時間啊目前還剩下4個月的時間你們追加這筆預算是要幹嘛告訴我們發明還有7個委員沒有經過還要來做這樣的事嗎\n\n9\n00:03:28,593 --> 00:03:45,536\n我跟委員報告因為這一次申請動資二倍金達到15億多了我知道所以我只告訴你你為什麼還要追加對你錢都花了為什麼追加預算中選會還要編這筆預算理由在哪裡因為它對於行政院二倍金的影響非常的大\n\n10\n00:03:45,796 --> 00:04:02,175\n那是行政院的二倍金二倍金本來就是要做天災人禍殘養二倍金就沒有錯嘛那因為我們佔的比例太大百分之二十那會影響到行政院動這個二倍金使用的空間行政院把你的這個中選會還放在你們這個項目本身來說就是有問題\n\n11\n00:04:06,460 --> 00:04:11,701\n如果大院如果大院支持我們用追加的方式的話那我們會把這15億歸電給行政院的二倍金歸電給行政院二倍金這就是你們挪來挪去是違反這個所謂的這個紀律問題嘛挪過來挪過去那我只問主計長下一次我們如果還有罷免還有這個公酬的話你是放在什麼地方是放在第二預備金還是放在追加預算裡主計長回答這個問題\n\n12\n00:04:35,706 --> 00:04:38,508\n好最後一個問題要不要回答時間到了如果時間來得及我們就辦追加如果來不及還是必須動第二預備金那要看你時間的這個東西要從挪過來弄過去錢坤大挪移本身對我們來說這就是財政紀律上需要被檢討的啦謝謝喔簡單來講錢用完了\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9\t1810\t我們請陳主席長那個黃國昌委員回來一下好不好委員好好 主席長好我想我還是要特別問到預算法第79條根據你的法律專業你的這個專業來說這次追加預算到底是它的合理性跟它的正當性到底符合79條的哪一個要件\n28731\t56242\t這個部分有一部分譬如說我們的原民會的淨化補償它是依照符合哪一個四款裡面哪一個要件我告訴你這是每個人都要去追問就是它的釋法性的問題因為你這次預算你這次預算高達878億元其中最大比的636億元它是一般性補助款已經條文明明告訴你它就是一個法律性的義務的支出而且已經三度通過總統公告了那你現在把它追加回來\n57102\t66445\t我個人覺得這就好像是你把地方真的是把他先餓死了你再給他糖吃或者是你先揍一頓再給他貼布一樣這對我們來說這是一個違法的一件事情好那現在呢因為地方政府嗷嗷待哺也不想讓他們為難所以有可能在這六三六一當中呢我們把他補回來但是我只要請問這個組計長那原本要求你們去做自行調整刪減的這個項目到底在哪裡\n85371\t104030\t給你追加回去那你原來本來是叫你要來做你到底放在哪裡本來是3-939嘛那我們3-939沒有 這631到底調整放在哪裡哪一個調整631 6361可能立法院會把它追加通過但是這個本來就叫你要自行調整的你的項目是放在什麼地方\n104932\t121846\t一般縣市補助的部分你應該放到什麼地方我的時間的關係我要求主計長你必須要把你自行調整刪減的部分一定要有一份報告告訴我們這是我們的天職要來監督你這個部分調節的部分在什麼地方當初通案刪減939那我們除了刪減304億之外現在636就是沒有辦法刪減所以才會\n128531\t155071\t好吧沒有辦法深言不分你條例給我嘛我只能告訴你這6361因為地方的需求我們要我只要奉勸主席長真的心中要有主計不能只有算計這是非常非常重要的最重要是我們從來沒有算計過我們是依法行事你沒有完全沒有依法因為過去這整個條文過來好那主席長你先暫時留著我是不是時間暫停我們請那個我們的李紀勇我們的中選會的李紀勇主委過來一下好中選會的李主委時間暫停了他走路時間來請\n161977\t184376\t也請主席長一起主席長也一起委員好是 這一次我們的公投將罷免共計花的15億4,324萬其中大部分的部分這個錢都是由我們的第二預備金來支出嗎 沒有錯吧公投跟罷免都是第二預備金嗎 什麼時候通過的什麼時候已經給了你的預備金\n186926\t194533\t都已經撥了8月15號嘛 都已經撥的錢也用完了那我請問這次追加預算當中為什麼中選會還是一模一樣的還是BNA的15億4324錢不都用完了嗎還剩下4個月的時間啊目前還剩下4個月的時間你們追加這筆預算是要幹嘛告訴我們發明還有7個委員沒有經過還要來做這樣的事嗎\n208593\t225536\t我跟委員報告因為這一次申請動資二倍金達到15億多了我知道所以我只告訴你你為什麼還要追加對你錢都花了為什麼追加預算中選會還要編這筆預算理由在哪裡因為它對於行政院二倍金的影響非常的大\n225796\t242175\t那是行政院的二倍金二倍金本來就是要做天災人禍殘養二倍金就沒有錯嘛那因為我們佔的比例太大百分之二十那會影響到行政院動這個二倍金使用的空間行政院把你的這個中選會還放在你們這個項目本身來說就是有問題\n246460\t251701\t如果大院如果大院支持我們用追加的方式的話那我們會把這15億歸電給行政院的二倍金歸電給行政院二倍金這就是你們挪來挪去是違反這個所謂的這個紀律問題嘛挪過來挪過去那我只問主計長下一次我們如果還有罷免還有這個公酬的話你是放在什麼地方是放在第二預備金還是放在追加預算裡主計長回答這個問題\n275706\t278508\t好 最後一個問題要不要回答時間到了如果時間來得及我們就辦追加如果來不及還是必須動第二預備金那要看你時間的這個東西要從挪過來弄過去錢坤大挪移本身對我們來說這就是財政紀律上需要被檢討的啦謝謝喔簡單來講錢用完了\n","txt":"我們請陳主席長那個黃國昌委員回來一下好不好委員好好 主席長好我想我還是要特別問到預算法第79條根據你的法律專業你的這個專業來說這次追加預算到底是它的合理性跟它的正當性到底符合79條的哪一個要件\n這個部分有一部分譬如說我們的原民會的淨化補償它是依照符合哪一個四款裡面哪一個要件我告訴你這是每個人都要去追問就是它的釋法性的問題因為你這次預算你這次預算高達878億元其中最大比的636億元它是一般性補助款已經條文明明告訴你它就是一個法律性的義務的支出而且已經三度通過總統公告了那你現在把它追加回來\n我個人覺得這就好像是你把地方真的是把他先餓死了你再給他糖吃或者是你先揍一頓再給他貼布一樣這對我們來說這是一個違法的一件事情好那現在呢因為地方政府嗷嗷待哺也不想讓他們為難所以有可能在這六三六一當中呢我們把他補回來但是我只要請問這個組計長那原本要求你們去做自行調整刪減的這個項目到底在哪裡\n給你追加回去那你原來本來是叫你要來做你到底放在哪裡本來是3-939嘛那我們3-939沒有 這631到底調整放在哪裡哪一個調整631 6361可能立法院會把它追加通過但是這個本來就叫你要自行調整的你的項目是放在什麼地方\n一般縣市補助的部分你應該放到什麼地方我的時間的關係我要求主計長你必須要把你自行調整刪減的部分一定要有一份報告告訴我們這是我們的天職要來監督你這個部分調節的部分在什麼地方當初通案刪減939那我們除了刪減304億之外現在636就是沒有辦法刪減所以才會\n好吧沒有辦法深言不分你條例給我嘛我只能告訴你這6361因為地方的需求我們要我只要奉勸主席長真的心中要有主計不能只有算計這是非常非常重要的最重要是我們從來沒有算計過我們是依法行事你沒有完全沒有依法因為過去這整個條文過來好那主席長你先暫時留著我是不是時間暫停我們請那個我們的李紀勇我們的中選會的李紀勇主委過來一下好中選會的李主委時間暫停了他走路時間來請\n也請主席長一起主席長也一起委員好是 這一次我們的公投將罷免共計花的15億4,324萬其中大部分的部分這個錢都是由我們的第二預備金來支出嗎 沒有錯吧公投跟罷免都是第二預備金嗎 什麼時候通過的什麼時候已經給了你的預備金\n都已經撥了8月15號嘛 都已經撥的錢也用完了那我請問這次追加預算當中為什麼中選會還是一模一樣的還是BNA的15億4324錢不都用完了嗎還剩下4個月的時間啊目前還剩下4個月的時間你們追加這筆預算是要幹嘛告訴我們發明還有7個委員沒有經過還要來做這樣的事嗎\n我跟委員報告因為這一次申請動資二倍金達到15億多了我知道所以我只告訴你你為什麼還要追加對你錢都花了為什麼追加預算中選會還要編這筆預算理由在哪裡因為它對於行政院二倍金的影響非常的大\n那是行政院的二倍金二倍金本來就是要做天災人禍殘養二倍金就沒有錯嘛那因為我們佔的比例太大百分之二十那會影響到行政院動這個二倍金使用的空間行政院把你的這個中選會還放在你們這個項目本身來說就是有問題\n如果大院如果大院支持我們用追加的方式的話那我們會把這15億歸電給行政院的二倍金歸電給行政院二倍金這就是你們挪來挪去是違反這個所謂的這個紀律問題嘛挪過來挪過去那我只問主計長下一次我們如果還有罷免還有這個公酬的話你是放在什麼地方是放在第二預備金還是放在追加預算裡主計長回答這個問題\n好 最後一個問題要不要回答時間到了如果時間來得及我們就辦追加如果來不及還是必須動第二預備金那要看你時間的這個東西要從挪過來弄過去錢坤大挪移本身對我們來說這就是財政紀律上需要被檢討的啦謝謝喔簡單來講錢用完了\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.009 --> 00:01.810\n我們請陳主席長那個黃國昌委員回來一下好不好委員好好主席長好我想我還是要特別問到預算法第79條根據你的法律專業你的這個專業來說這次追加預算到底是它的合理性跟它的正當性到底符合79條的哪一個要件\n\n00:28.731 --> 00:56.242\n這個部分有一部分譬如說我們的原民會的淨化補償它是依照符合哪一個四款裡面哪一個要件我告訴你這是每個人都要去追問就是它的釋法性的問題因為你這次預算你這次預算高達878億元其中最大比的636億元它是一般性補助款已經條文明明告訴你它就是一個法律性的義務的支出而且已經三度通過總統公告了那你現在把它追加回來\n\n00:57.102 --> 01:06.445\n我個人覺得這就好像是你把地方真的是把他先餓死了你再給他糖吃或者是你先揍一頓再給他貼布一樣這對我們來說這是一個違法的一件事情好那現在呢因為地方政府嗷嗷待哺也不想讓他們為難所以有可能在這六三六一當中呢我們把他補回來但是我只要請問這個組計長那原本要求你們去做自行調整刪減的這個項目到底在哪裡\n\n01:25.371 --> 01:44.030\n給你追加回去那你原來本來是叫你要來做你到底放在哪裡本來是3-939嘛那我們3-939沒有這631到底調整放在哪裡哪一個調整6316361可能立法院會把它追加通過但是這個本來就叫你要自行調整的你的項目是放在什麼地方\n\n01:44.932 --> 02:01.846\n一般縣市補助的部分你應該放到什麼地方我的時間的關係我要求主計長你必須要把你自行調整刪減的部分一定要有一份報告告訴我們這是我們的天職要來監督你這個部分調節的部分在什麼地方當初通案刪減939那我們除了刪減304億之外現在636就是沒有辦法刪減所以才會\n\n02:08.531 --> 02:35.071\n好吧沒有辦法深言不分你條例給我嘛我只能告訴你這6361因為地方的需求我們要我只要奉勸主席長真的心中要有主計不能只有算計這是非常非常重要的最重要是我們從來沒有算計過我們是依法行事你沒有完全沒有依法因為過去這整個條文過來好那主席長你先暫時留著我是不是時間暫停我們請那個我們的李紀勇我們的中選會的李紀勇主委過來一下好中選會的李主委時間暫停了他走路時間來請\n\n02:41.977 --> 03:04.376\n也請主席長一起主席長也一起委員好是這一次我們的公投將罷免共計花的15億4,324萬其中大部分的部分這個錢都是由我們的第二預備金來支出嗎沒有錯吧公投跟罷免都是第二預備金嗎什麼時候通過的什麼時候已經給了你的預備金\n\n03:06.926 --> 03:14.533\n都已經撥了8月15號嘛都已經撥的錢也用完了那我請問這次追加預算當中為什麼中選會還是一模一樣的還是BNA的15億4324錢不都用完了嗎還剩下4個月的時間啊目前還剩下4個月的時間你們追加這筆預算是要幹嘛告訴我們發明還有7個委員沒有經過還要來做這樣的事嗎\n\n03:28.593 --> 03:45.536\n我跟委員報告因為這一次申請動資二倍金達到15億多了我知道所以我只告訴你你為什麼還要追加對你錢都花了為什麼追加預算中選會還要編這筆預算理由在哪裡因為它對於行政院二倍金的影響非常的大\n\n03:45.796 --> 04:02.175\n那是行政院的二倍金二倍金本來就是要做天災人禍殘養二倍金就沒有錯嘛那因為我們佔的比例太大百分之二十那會影響到行政院動這個二倍金使用的空間行政院把你的這個中選會還放在你們這個項目本身來說就是有問題\n\n04:06.460 --> 04:11.701\n如果大院如果大院支持我們用追加的方式的話那我們會把這15億歸電給行政院的二倍金歸電給行政院二倍金這就是你們挪來挪去是違反這個所謂的這個紀律問題嘛挪過來挪過去那我只問主計長下一次我們如果還有罷免還有這個公酬的話你是放在什麼地方是放在第二預備金還是放在追加預算裡主計長回答這個問題\n\n04:35.706 --> 04:38.508\n好最後一個問題要不要回答時間到了如果時間來得及我們就辦追加如果來不及還是必須動第二預備金那要看你時間的這個東西要從挪過來弄過去錢坤大挪移本身對我們來說這就是財政紀律上需要被檢討的啦謝謝喔簡單來講錢用完了\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.009,"end":1.81,"text":"我們請陳主席長那個黃國昌委員回來一下好不好委員好好 主席長好我想我還是要特別問到預算法第79條根據你的法律專業你的這個專業來說這次追加預算到底是它的合理性跟它的正當性到底符合79條的哪一個要件"},{"start":28.731,"end":56.242,"text":"這個部分有一部分譬如說我們的原民會的淨化補償它是依照符合哪一個四款裡面哪一個要件我告訴你這是每個人都要去追問就是它的釋法性的問題因為你這次預算你這次預算高達878億元其中最大比的636億元它是一般性補助款已經條文明明告訴你它就是一個法律性的義務的支出而且已經三度通過總統公告了那你現在把它追加回來"},{"start":57.102,"end":66.445,"text":"我個人覺得這就好像是你把地方真的是把他先餓死了你再給他糖吃或者是你先揍一頓再給他貼布一樣這對我們來說這是一個違法的一件事情好那現在呢因為地方政府嗷嗷待哺也不想讓他們為難所以有可能在這六三六一當中呢我們把他補回來但是我只要請問這個組計長那原本要求你們去做自行調整刪減的這個項目到底在哪裡"},{"start":85.371,"end":104.03,"text":"給你追加回去那你原來本來是叫你要來做你到底放在哪裡本來是3-939嘛那我們3-939沒有 這631到底調整放在哪裡哪一個調整631 6361可能立法院會把它追加通過但是這個本來就叫你要自行調整的你的項目是放在什麼地方"},{"start":104.932,"end":121.846,"text":"一般縣市補助的部分你應該放到什麼地方我的時間的關係我要求主計長你必須要把你自行調整刪減的部分一定要有一份報告告訴我們這是我們的天職要來監督你這個部分調節的部分在什麼地方當初通案刪減939那我們除了刪減304億之外現在636就是沒有辦法刪減所以才會"},{"start":128.531,"end":155.071,"text":"好吧沒有辦法深言不分你條例給我嘛我只能告訴你這6361因為地方的需求我們要我只要奉勸主席長真的心中要有主計不能只有算計這是非常非常重要的最重要是我們從來沒有算計過我們是依法行事你沒有完全沒有依法因為過去這整個條文過來好那主席長你先暫時留著我是不是時間暫停我們請那個我們的李紀勇我們的中選會的李紀勇主委過來一下好中選會的李主委時間暫停了他走路時間來請"},{"start":161.977,"end":184.376,"text":"也請主席長一起主席長也一起委員好是 這一次我們的公投將罷免共計花的15億4,324萬其中大部分的部分這個錢都是由我們的第二預備金來支出嗎 沒有錯吧公投跟罷免都是第二預備金嗎 什麼時候通過的什麼時候已經給了你的預備金"},{"start":186.926,"end":194.533,"text":"都已經撥了8月15號嘛 都已經撥的錢也用完了那我請問這次追加預算當中為什麼中選會還是一模一樣的還是BNA的15億4324錢不都用完了嗎還剩下4個月的時間啊目前還剩下4個月的時間你們追加這筆預算是要幹嘛告訴我們發明還有7個委員沒有經過還要來做這樣的事嗎"},{"start":208.593,"end":225.536,"text":"我跟委員報告因為這一次申請動資二倍金達到15億多了我知道所以我只告訴你你為什麼還要追加對你錢都花了為什麼追加預算中選會還要編這筆預算理由在哪裡因為它對於行政院二倍金的影響非常的大"},{"start":225.796,"end":242.175,"text":"那是行政院的二倍金二倍金本來就是要做天災人禍殘養二倍金就沒有錯嘛那因為我們佔的比例太大百分之二十那會影響到行政院動這個二倍金使用的空間行政院把你的這個中選會還放在你們這個項目本身來說就是有問題"},{"start":246.46,"end":251.701,"text":"如果大院如果大院支持我們用追加的方式的話那我們會把這15億歸電給行政院的二倍金歸電給行政院二倍金這就是你們挪來挪去是違反這個所謂的這個紀律問題嘛挪過來挪過去那我只問主計長下一次我們如果還有罷免還有這個公酬的話你是放在什麼地方是放在第二預備金還是放在追加預算裡主計長回答這個問題"},{"start":275.706,"end":278.508,"text":"好 最後一個問題要不要回答時間到了如果時間來得及我們就辦追加如果來不及還是必須動第二預備金那要看你時間的這個東西要從挪過來弄過去錢坤大挪移本身對我們來說這就是財政紀律上需要被檢討的啦謝謝喔簡單來講錢用完了"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":324,"blocks":[["柯委員志恩：（10時6分）謝謝召委，先請陳主計長。"],["主席：黃國昌委員回來一下，好嗎？"],["陳主計長淑姿：委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：主計長好，我還是要特別問，預算法第七十九條，根據你的法律專業跟你的專業來說，這次追加預算它的合理性跟它的正當性到底符合第七十九條哪一個要件？"],["陳主計長淑姿：有一部分，譬如說我們原民會的禁伐補償是依照法律……"],["柯委員志恩：符合四款裡面哪一個要件？我告訴你，這是每個人都會去追問適法性的問題，因為你這次預算高達878億元，其中最大筆的636億元一般性補助款，條文明明告訴你，它就是一個法律性義務的支出，而且已經三讀通過、總統公告了，那你現在要把它追加回來，我個人覺得這就好像是你把地方先餓死、再給他糖吃，或者是你先揍他一頓，再給他貼貼布一樣。這對我們來說是違法的一件事情。","現在因為地方政府嗷嗷待哺，也不想讓他們為難，所以有可能這636億我們把它補回來，但是我要請問主計長，原本要求你們去做自行調整、刪減的項目到底在哪裡？給你追加回去，那原來叫你要自行調整、刪減的項目，你到底放在哪裡？"],["陳主計長淑姿：本來是刪減939億餘元嘛，那我們刪減了……"],["柯委員志恩：調整到底放在哪裡？"],["陳主計長淑姿：哪一個調整？"],["柯委員志恩：636億可能立法院會把它追加通過，但是這本來就叫你要自行調整的，你的項目是放在什麼地方？"],["陳主計長淑姿：一般縣市補助的部分……"],["柯委員志恩：你放在什麼地方？時間的關係，我要求主計長，你必須要把你自行調整、刪減的部分一定要有份報告告訴我們，這是我們的天職，要來監督你調整的部分在什麼地方。"],["陳主計長淑姿：當初通案刪減939億，我們除了刪減304億之外，現在636億就是沒有辦法刪減，所以才會去刪減一般性補助款……"],["柯委員志恩：沒有辦法刪減的部分，你條列給我，我只能告訴你這636億，因為地方的需求要追加，我只是要奉勸主計長，心中要有主計，不能只有算計，這是非常非常重要的，最重要是……"],["陳主計長淑姿：我們從來沒有算計過，我們是依法行事。"],["柯委員志恩：你完全沒有依法行事，因為過去的整個條文……好，主計長你先暫時留著，是不是時間暫停？請中選會的李進勇委員。"],["主席：好，請中選會李主委，時間暫停，因為他要有時間走路。"],["柯委員志恩：也請主計長一起。"],["李主任委員進勇：委員好。"],["柯委員志恩：這一次我們的公投加罷免共計花了15億4,324萬，其中大部分的錢都是由我們的第二預備金來支出，沒有錯吧？"],["李主任委員進勇：公投跟罷免都是申請第二預備金。"],["柯委員志恩：什麼時候通過的？什麼時候給你們預備金？"],["李主任委員進勇：都已經撥了。"],["柯委員志恩：8月15號，都已經撥，錢也用完了，那我請問這次的追加預算當中，為什麼中選會還是一模一樣編列15億4,324萬，錢不都用完了嗎？目前還剩下4個月的時間，你們追加這筆預算是要幹嘛？是告訴我們有7個委員沒有經過罷免，還要做這樣的事嗎？"],["李主任委員進勇：我跟委員報告，因為這一次申請動支二備金達到15億多，金額非常龐大。"],["柯委員志恩：我知道，所以我只問你，你為什麼還要追加？錢都已經花了，為什麼中選會還要再編這筆預算，理由在哪裡？"],["李主任委員進勇：因為它對於行政院二備金的影響非常大，所以……"],["柯委員志恩：那是行政院的二備金，二備金本來就是做天災、人禍才用二備金，沒有錯嘛？"],["李主任委員進勇：因為我們占的比例太大，占了20%。"],["柯委員志恩：還是一樣嘛！你告訴我……"],["李主任委員進勇：會影響到行政院二備金使用的空間。"],["柯委員志恩：行政院把你們中選會放在這個項目，本身就是有問題，因為中選會本身不需要額外經費來做，除非你剩下4個月的時間要做其他的事情。為什麼還要編這個15億？"],["李主任委員進勇：如果大院支持我們用追加的方式的話，我們會把這15億歸墊給行政院的二備金，來應付國家重要緊急事務之用。"],["柯委員志恩：歸墊給行政院二備金，這就是你們挪來挪去，違反紀律問題，挪過來、挪過去。","我只問主計長，下一次我們如果還有罷免、公投的話，你是放在什麼地方？是放在第二預備金，還是放在追加預算裡？主計長回答這個問題。"],["主席：好，最後一個問題，時間到了。"],["陳主計長淑姿：如果時間來得及，我們就辦追加；如果來不及，還是必須動第二預備金，要看時間的……我們第二預備金是專門做重要的……"],["柯委員志恩：這個東西挪過來、挪過去，乾坤大挪移，對我們來說，這就是財政紀律上需要被檢討的啦！"],["主席：謝謝，簡單來講，錢用完就用完了，不要再追加。","下一位請萬美玲委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":290,"meet_id":"聯席會議-11-3-20,15,35,19,22,23,36,26-1","speakers":["賴士葆","林德福","吳秉叡","陳亭妃","賴瑞隆","郭國文","林思銘","李昆澤","李柏毅","黃國昌","柯志恩","萬美玲","鄭正鈐","洪孟楷","張智倫","賴惠員","鍾佳濱","吳沛憶","張啓楷","王育敏","張宏陸","劉書彬","王世堅","黃秀芳","林俊憲","李坤城","李彥秀","蘇巧慧","鄭天財Sra Kacaw","黃珊珊","謝衣鳯","王美惠","張雅琳","羅智強","陳俊宇","陳培瑜","陳冠廷","黃健豪","馬文君","吳思瑤","蔡易餘","牛煦庭","郭昱晴","蘇清泉","黃捷","楊瓊瓔","徐富癸","陳玉珍","范雲","葉元之","王正旭","林月琴","羅廷瑋","劉建國","陳菁徽","林楚茵","翁曉玲","陳雪生","林宜瑾","盧縣一","高金素梅","陳素月","羅美玲","沈發惠","蔡其昌","魯明哲","徐巧芯","呂玉玲","邱志偉","林憶君","沈伯洋","林岱樺","邱議瑩","游顥","徐欣瑩","王定宇","伍麗華Saidhai‧Tahovecahe","林淑芬","張嘉郡","陳超明","邱鎮軍","廖偉翔","陳昭姿"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-08-28"],"gazette_id":"1147602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147602_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期財政、內政、外交及國防、經濟、教育及文化、交通、司法及法制、社會福利及衛生環境委員會第1次聯席會議紀錄","content":"審查中華民國114年度中央政府總預算追加預算案（含秘密會議）","agenda_id":"1147602_00001"}}}