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\"沒有個案再進行OK OK OK 好那如果有的話我覺得就是再次確定如果有的話跨部會議很重要那至於有沒有行政訴訟的部分也再麻煩你們確定好不好如同您剛剛說性評的部分沒有霸凌的部分也沒有嘛對不對好那希望行政訴訟的部分也去做相關確定好那接下來還是要回到公務人員職場育兒一直以來我都有跟權敘部討論相關的問題謝謝\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"沒\", \"start\": 464.511, \"end\": 464.611, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 464.611, \"end\": 464.871, \"score\": 0.591}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 464.871, \"end\": 465.012, \"score\": 0.621}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 465.012, \"end\": 465.332, \"score\": 0.692}, {\"word\": \"進\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 465.332, \"end\": 465.432, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 465.432, \"end\": 465.512, \"score\": 0.324}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 465.512, \"end\": 465.592, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 465.592, \"end\": 465.712, \"score\": 0.517}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 465.712, \"end\": 465.732, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"O\", \"start\": 465.732, \"end\": 465.913, \"score\": 0.673}, {\"word\": \"K\", \"start\": 465.913, \"end\": 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00:00:39,660\n好那早安我想我們今天要討論的是關於政務人員是不是要行政中立這件事情那當然後續的法條我們也許之後還可以開公聽會來討論可是我想我們之前看到考試院的立場說得非常清楚考試院管的是公務人員而不是政務人員可是我們在看到考試院的報告裡面對於各國制度的掌握其實已經給了立法院一份研究的建議那這個建議當中\n\n3\n00:00:41,441 --> 00:01:04,671\n有特別提到一件事情我也想要跟您確認說其實有非常多民主國家對於政務人員相關規範並沒有所謂的專法的狀況是不是是不是講是就是說沒有一個叫做就是類似這樣法但他們的規範行為會散在其他不同的法律裡面也是有做一些規範那台灣現行也是這樣嘛對不對目前我們大概主要是在行政中立法跟公務員服務法\n\n4\n00:01:05,211 --> 00:01:20,669\n大概站在這還有懲戒法也有對他們一些規劃那可是對於有些委員提案的版本你們目前有沒有什麼規劃或者是要討論的進度基本上我們是尊重但是就是程獨我們在今天提給大院委員的報告因為我們認為因為\n\n5\n00:01:22,010 --> 00:01:45,497\n考試院基本上是法制嘛那因為政務人員本來他的行為就很多元跟動態那未來在譬如說哪些行為應該如何或應該怎麼樣來做處理這部分我們會比較建議說行政院或許比我們更適合來做因為畢竟目前中央跟地方的政務人員以人數來講是都幾乎集中在行政院跟地方政府\n\n6\n00:01:46,417 --> 00:02:09,421\n政府裡面所以我們會比較認為說才會跟大院報告說我們建議未來是應該由行政院來做這樣的一個主管機關會比較適合所以會給行政院這樣的建議可是對於現在相關委員的版本裡面他們到底含括哪些人哪些範圍的人員其實我覺得也是後續要去研究包含有沒有包含所謂的民選首長這個部分我覺得可能是會大家其中會有一些歧異的地方是\n\n7\n00:02:09,801 --> 00:02:29,450\n好那這個我也想要建議主席也許因為主席今天已經安排了但是我還是想要建議主席也許有機會我真的覺得應該要在辦公廳會我們把這個大家對於這件事情的理解或者是範圍定義有多廣然後這件事情我覺得還可以後續來做討論好不好好謝謝那這邊先請回謝謝接下來我想要請任總跟保訓會\n\n8\n00:02:38,564 --> 00:03:04,315\n好早安我想要跟您分享一下我們這個禮拜在勞動部看到一個非常棒的政策說如果在職場上有被害人他有性騷擾的議題他必須要到場調解而這個調解雇主必須要安心給予工價這個部分是勞動部的政策那一樣只要相關勞動政策我相信所有公務人員可能也會想問那身為公務人員他們如果有相關議題或者是在職場上有被不當對待那\n\n9\n00:03:06,616 --> 00:03:22,824\n在參加性平調解或者是相關的會議當中我們的公務人員可不可以也請公假這個部分目前有相關的規範或者是討論過嗎如果沒有的話是不是可以把勞動部的這個建議也想一下在公務人員這邊我們可以怎麼規範都會比照\n\n10\n00:03:28,588 --> 00:03:41,066\n跟委員報告這是全部主管但是全部的請假規則裡面就是這個是公園是性評法適用的對象請假規則裡面就有規範所以性評法那邊有規範就我們就會一體適用\n\n11\n00:03:45,131 --> 00:04:02,676\n所以原則上如果《性平法》裡面寫法是可以的那如果是這樣我其實也想鼓勵這邊我覺得要可以宣傳對內要讓我們公務員知道如果他們真的運氣很不好在職場上遇到這樣的事情他必須要請公價我們必須要給予公價的支持好不好\n\n12\n00:04:04,176 --> 00:04:29,372\n那接下來要說勞動部在這個相關的文章還有提到僱傭單位如果因此有不利益的對待違反規定勞工還可以檢舉相關事證去跟勞政主管機關或是勞動部的相關專線提出申請那如果我們公務員遇到這個沒有辦法請公家的狀況他們可以向誰申訴或是可以向誰檢舉讓他們可以保障自己的權益那也展現政府機關照顧公務員的決心\n\n13\n00:04:35,649 --> 00:04:52,817\n沒關係如果現在還不確定機關會跟機關他本身就可以跟機關去反映去反映對那如果他沒有得到相應的解決那基本上就會落到救濟的範疇那就保訓會可以跟保訓會提申訴\n\n14\n00:04:53,757 --> 00:05:07,159\n那我也建議保訓會其實我們已經有相關規範了也有相關可以做的路徑跟方法那真的是要加強推廣讓我們的公務人員知道政府機關在這件事情上是有決心而且已經有法規範而且也有途徑好不好\n\n15\n00:05:09,066 --> 00:05:33,659\n謝謝委員建議我們會努力來做好謝謝因為不是我不是說你們沒做到是已經有了那我們就要把它講出來好不好因為我認為勞動部做這個圖卡其實非常非常的清楚那我相信保訓會這邊應該也是好那這邊先這樣好接下來我想要談一下關於運動部即將成立可是我們其實擔心另外一件事情也想要跟您請教運動部在我們要講運動部而是說原本\n\n16\n00:05:34,139 --> 00:06:02,839\n系屬於教育部的行政訴訟啦訴願性平的霸凌案在阻改的過程當中我們如何讓持續的案子被可以好好的完善的往下走這邊我想要聽聽看您的建議因為我們之前陸陸續續跟行政院考試院人總衛福部勞動部去請教如果在改組之後在不同的情況下到了不同的機關去那適用的法規在阻改前後可能會有一些不一樣那我這邊想要請你們給我一個說法就是人總跟犬序部這邊\n\n17\n00:06:03,479 --> 00:06:17,856\n是不是可以協助教育部先在9月9號之前有沒有機會跨部會討論協助教育部的體育署相關改組之後就是運動部升格之後相關的這些爭議的系數我們要怎麼樣銜接過去\n\n18\n00:06:20,629 --> 00:06:43,823\n跟委員報告運動部的籌組在行政局有組一個跨部會的相關的籌備工作小組也一直在進行大概包括各個面向不管組織業務包括他的預算等等有關於業務的職長或者是權限的管轄的劃分在暫停條例\n\n19\n00:06:45,564 --> 00:07:00,308\n第三條上面其實有一個原則性的規範應該是隨著業務去做相關的移轉但是如果有涉及到所謂訴訟等等的這個可能就必須要回歸到各個主管機關市發院行政院考試院勞動部委員這個意見我們會帶給這個小組來\n\n20\n00:07:05,851 --> 00:07:26,813\n來跟他們建議我自己猜測啦我也比較關心性騷啦或者是霸凌啦行政訴訟這個我們有去做過了解目前是沒有這樣的案子目前沒有所以在改組之後也不會有相關的問題目前沒有個案在進行\n\n21\n00:07:27,874 --> 00:07:43,931\n我指的是在教育部當中必須要跟體育有關的在運動部成立之後目前你們整理出來是沒有我們現在的恰的結果是恰的結果是性品案件跟犯人案件目前是\n\n22\n00:07:44,511 --> 00:08:05,693\n沒有個案再進行OKOKOK好那如果有的話我覺得就是再次確定如果有的話跨部會議很重要那至於有沒有行政訴訟的部分也再麻煩你們確定好不好如同您剛剛說性評的部分沒有霸凌的部分也沒有嘛對不對好那希望行政訴訟的部分也去做相關確定好那接下來還是要回到公務人員職場育兒一直以來我都有跟權敘部討論相關的問題謝謝\n\n23\n00:08:09,337 --> 00:08:22,391\n現在在公務人員任用法第22條裡面我們有一個非常棒的政策我要再次謝謝全序部有提到所謂友善育兒的條款所以友善育兒就是說小朋友在三歲以下的時候\n\n24\n00:08:23,032 --> 00:08:45,812\n如果是公務人員我可以調職到跟小朋友居住地的同一個縣市我認為這個條文利益非常良善而且確實可以讓我們的公務機關的公務人員認為政府機關在照顧我們而且協助我們育兒可是呢問題是在這個條款的第二款還有一個但書就是要實際任職達公務人員考試法鎖定限制轉調期間三分之一以上\n\n25\n00:08:46,613 --> 00:09:12,847\n也就是公務人員目前如果要待三年的這個基本設計來說小朋友出生後還要等一年才能轉掉也就是現行的制度會把我們的公務員跟他的孩子至少分隔一年左右那我要說你們其實在考試院有了解到這個問題考試院自己主動注意到這個問題所以在今年三月的考試院的會議就有考試委員建議你們要進一步去了解並且\n\n26\n00:09:14,228 --> 00:09:25,013\n確定一下有多少相關的個案受到影響未來還可以怎麼調整我在想這邊是不是可以請跟全序部討論一下你們有沒有機會進一步評估那連同你們現在了解的狀況做一個報告\n\n27\n00:09:26,937 --> 00:09:56,184\n我跟委員報告一下就是說因為因為剛剛您提示到那個部分那是本法的規範那當然在法律沒修正前是沒有辦法變動但是我們對於這一條怎麼在執行商調裡面這一塊我們部裡面已經有您的一個草案送到考試院去那原則上就是說如果說屬於這個狀況的人他在這個機關因為我們現在未來對於商調是直接要求就是說\n\n28\n00:09:57,104 --> 00:10:13,854\n機關不能再無限拖啦我們會要有一個要求一個時間點那我們希望說你至少在這個機關要任職滿六個月但是我們有但書這個部分也是屬於不必不必說一定會要任職滿六個月以上的範圍啦但這還是不能排除本法三分之\n\n29\n00:10:14,955 --> 00:10:43,094\n三分之一的問題那這樣的話就會讓他在辦理商調的時候他就可以很清楚什麼時候他就可以掉手因為我們現在的修正方式就是直接要機關把明確的商調的時間點要把它明確出來而且我們有做了幾個限制譬如說原則上最多三個月那有特殊狀況之下的話最多可以在三個月所以最多就是六個月但是這個情形它是不會被動到三個月的狀況\n\n30\n00:10:44,915 --> 00:11:04,856\n因為他這是育兒的這個情形對對對所以我們其實是有機會改善而且考試院都已經提出建議了我們也有提修正案太好了非常謝謝全序部這個很正向的回應那不知道後續進度我們大概我們現在在等考試院全院的審查會如果通過以後這個應該就可以就可以那個來發布再實施\n\n31\n00:11:05,416 --> 00:11:20,033\n太好了我覺得這個公務機關對於友善育兒這件事情我們確實一步一步在往前走所以在這個進度上也謝謝您剛剛的進度回覆我們很希望後續在確定修完這個相關辦法之後真的可以落實到基層公務人員的身上\n\n32\n00:11:20,593 --> 00:11:42,169\n讓他們在友善育兒這件事情真的有覺得政府有在照顧大家那最後我要拜託一下監察院就是最近有一個獨家新聞在講到關於未成年抽血的事情我講的是未成年那我想這邊我就是簡單拜託監察院在相關新聞上有注意進度然後確保在相關研究議題上是有進度或者是監察院這邊有沒有什麼想法\n\n33\n00:11:44,190 --> 00:12:06,518\n有關於那個運動員提的是運動員抽血案未成年因為這個相關的新聞竟然講的是四所公立大學的未成年的部分是那這個部分我們回去我們會立刻蒐集相關的資料來研究一下看是不是需要發文還是含查的好是謝謝委員OK好謝謝那就拜託你們注意了好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n6684\t9993\t好 謝謝主席 那有先請全序部 謝謝麻煩次長\n17230\t39660\t好 那早安我想我們今天要討論的是關於政務人員是不是要行政中立這件事情那當然後續的法條我們也許之後還可以開公聽會來討論可是我想我們之前看到考試院的立場說得非常清楚考試院管的是公務人員而不是政務人員可是我們在看到考試院的報告裡面對於各國制度的掌握其實已經給了立法院一份研究的建議那這個建議當中\n41441\t64671\t有特別提到一件事情我也想要跟您確認說其實有非常多民主國家對於政務人員相關規範並沒有所謂的專法的狀況 是不是 是不是講是 就是說沒有一個叫做 就是類似這樣法但他們的規範行為會散在其他不同的法律裡面也是有做一些規範那台灣現行也是這樣嘛 對不對目前我們大概主要是在行政中立法跟公務員服務法\n65211\t80669\t大概站在這還有懲戒法也有對他們一些規劃那可是對於有些委員提案的版本你們目前有沒有什麼規劃或者是要討論的進度基本上我們是尊重但是就是程獨我們在今天提給大院委員的報告因為我們認為因為\n82010\t105497\t考試院基本上是法制嘛那因為政務人員本來他的行為就很多元跟動態那未來在譬如說哪些行為應該如何或應該怎麼樣來做處理這部分我們會比較建議說行政院或許比我們更適合來做因為畢竟目前中央跟地方的政務人員以人數來講是都幾乎集中在行政院跟地方政府\n106417\t129421\t政府裡面所以我們會比較認為說才會跟大院報告說我們建議未來是應該由行政院來做這樣的一個主管機關會比較適合所以會給行政院這樣的建議可是對於現在相關委員的版本裡面他們到底含括哪些人哪些範圍的人員其實我覺得也是後續要去研究包含有沒有包含所謂的民選首長這個部分我覺得可能是會大家其中會有一些歧異的地方是\n129801\t149450\t好那這個我也想要建議主席也許因為主席今天已經安排了但是我還是想要建議主席也許有機會我真的覺得應該要在辦公廳會我們把這個大家對於這件事情的理解或者是範圍定義有多廣然後這件事情我覺得還可以後續來做討論好不好好謝謝那這邊先請回謝謝接下來我想要請任總跟保訓會\n158564\t184315\t好早安我想要跟您分享一下我們這個禮拜在勞動部看到一個非常棒的政策說如果在職場上有被害人他有性騷擾的議題他必須要到場調解而這個調解雇主必須要安心給予工價這個部分是勞動部的政策那一樣只要相關勞動政策我相信所有公務人員可能也會想問那身為公務人員他們如果有相關議題或者是在職場上有被不當對待那\n186616\t202824\t在參加性平調解或者是相關的會議當中我們的公務人員可不可以也請公假這個部分目前有相關的規範或者是討論過嗎如果沒有的話是不是可以把勞動部的這個建議也想一下在公務人員這邊我們可以怎麼規範都會比照\n208588\t221066\t跟委員報告這是全部主管但是全部的請假規則裡面就是這個是公園是性評法適用的對象請假規則裡面就有規範所以性評法那邊有規範就我們就會一體適用\n225131\t242676\t所以原則上如果《性平法》裡面寫法是可以的那如果是這樣我其實也想鼓勵這邊我覺得要可以宣傳對內要讓我們公務員知道如果他們真的運氣很不好在職場上遇到這樣的事情他必須要請公價我們必須要給予公價的支持好不好\n244176\t269372\t那接下來要說勞動部在這個相關的文章還有提到僱傭單位如果因此有不利益的對待違反規定勞工還可以檢舉相關事證去跟勞政主管機關或是勞動部的相關專線提出申請那如果我們公務員遇到這個沒有辦法請公家的狀況他們可以向誰申訴或是可以向誰檢舉讓他們可以保障自己的權益那也展現政府機關照顧公務員的決心\n275649\t292817\t沒關係 如果現在還不確定 機關會跟機關他本身就可以跟機關去反映去反映 對那如果他沒有得到相應的解決那基本上就會落到救濟的範疇那就保訓會可以跟保訓會提申訴\n293757\t307159\t那我也建議保訓會其實我們已經有相關規範了也有相關可以做的路徑跟方法那真的是要加強推廣讓我們的公務人員知道政府機關在這件事情上是有決心而且已經有法規範而且也有途徑好不好\n309066\t333659\t謝謝委員 建議我們會努力來做好 謝謝因為不是我不是說你們沒做到是已經有了那我們就要把它講出來好不好因為我認為勞動部做這個圖卡其實非常非常的清楚那我相信保訓會這邊應該也是好那這邊先這樣好接下來我想要談一下關於運動部即將成立可是我們其實擔心另外一件事情也想要跟您請教運動部在我們要講運動部而是說原本\n334139\t362839\t系屬於教育部的行政訴訟啦 訴願性平的霸凌案在阻改的過程當中我們如何讓持續的案子被可以好好的完善的往下走這邊我想要聽聽看您的建議因為我們之前陸陸續續跟行政院考試院人總衛福部勞動部去請教如果在改組之後在不同的情況下到了不同的機關去那適用的法規在阻改前後可能會有一些不一樣那我這邊想要請你們給我一個說法就是人總跟犬序部這邊\n363479\t377856\t是不是可以協助教育部先在9月9號之前有沒有機會跨部會討論協助教育部的體育署相關改組之後就是運動部升格之後相關的這些爭議的系數我們要怎麼樣銜接過去\n380629\t403823\t跟委員報告運動部的籌組在行政局有組一個跨部會的相關的籌備工作小組也一直在進行大概包括各個面向 不管組織 業務包括他的預算等等有關於業務的職長或者是權限的管轄的劃分在暫停條例\n405564\t420308\t第三條上面其實有一個原則性的規範應該是隨著業務去做相關的移轉但是如果有涉及到所謂訴訟等等的這個可能就必須要回歸到各個主管機關市發院 行政院 考試院勞動部委員這個意見我們會帶給這個小組來\n425851\t446813\t來跟他們建議我自己猜測啦 我也比較關心性騷啦 或者是霸凌啦 行政訴訟這個我們有去做過了解目前是沒有這樣的案子目前沒有所以在改組之後也不會有相關的問題目前沒有個案在進行\n447874\t463931\t我指的是在教育部當中必須要跟體育有關的在運動部成立之後目前你們整理出來是沒有我們現在的恰的結果是恰的結果是性品案件跟犯人案件目前是\n464511\t485693\t沒有個案再進行OK OK OK 好那如果有的話我覺得就是再次確定如果有的話跨部會議很重要那至於有沒有行政訴訟的部分也再麻煩你們確定好不好如同您剛剛說性評的部分沒有霸凌的部分也沒有嘛對不對好那希望行政訴訟的部分也去做相關確定好那接下來還是要回到公務人員職場育兒一直以來我都有跟權敘部討論相關的問題謝謝\n489337\t502391\t現在在公務人員任用法第22條裡面我們有一個非常棒的政策我要再次謝謝全序部有提到所謂友善育兒的條款所以友善育兒就是說小朋友在三歲以下的時候\n503032\t525812\t如果是公務人員我可以調職到跟小朋友居住地的同一個縣市我認為這個條文利益非常良善而且確實可以讓我們的公務機關的公務人員認為政府機關在照顧我們而且協助我們育兒可是呢問題是在這個條款的第二款還有一個但書就是要實際任職達公務人員考試法鎖定限制轉調期間三分之一以上\n526613\t552847\t也就是公務人員目前如果要待三年的這個基本設計來說小朋友出生後還要等一年才能轉掉也就是現行的制度會把我們的公務員跟他的孩子至少分隔一年左右那我要說你們其實在考試院有了解到這個問題考試院自己主動注意到這個問題所以在今年三月的考試院的會議就有考試委員建議你們要進一步去了解並且\n554228\t565013\t確定一下有多少相關的個案受到影響未來還可以怎麼調整我在想這邊是不是可以請跟全序部討論一下你們有沒有機會進一步評估那連同你們現在了解的狀況做一個報告\n566937\t596184\t我跟委員報告一下就是說因為因為剛剛您提示到那個部分那是本法的規範那當然在法律沒修正前是沒有辦法變動但是我們對於這一條怎麼在執行商調裡面這一塊我們部裡面已經有您的一個草案送到考試院去那原則上就是說如果說屬於這個狀況的人他在這個機關因為我們現在未來對於商調是直接要求就是說\n597104\t613854\t機關不能再無限拖啦我們會要有一個要求一個時間點那我們希望說你至少在這個機關要任職滿六個月但是我們有但書這個部分也是屬於不必不必說一定會要任職滿六個月以上的範圍啦但這還是不能排除本法三分之\n614955\t643094\t三分之一的問題那這樣的話就會讓他在辦理商調的時候他就可以很清楚什麼時候他就可以掉手因為我們現在的修正方式就是直接要機關把明確的商調的時間點要把它明確出來而且我們有做了幾個限制譬如說原則上最多三個月那有特殊狀況之下的話最多可以在三個月所以最多就是六個月但是這個情形它是不會被動到三個月的狀況\n644915\t664856\t因為他這是育兒的這個情形對對對所以我們其實是有機會改善而且考試院都已經提出建議了我們也有提修正案太好了非常謝謝全序部這個很正向的回應那不知道後續進度我們大概我們現在在等考試院全院的審查會如果通過以後這個應該就可以就可以那個來發布再實施\n665416\t680033\t太好了我覺得這個公務機關對於友善育兒這件事情我們確實一步一步在往前走所以在這個進度上也謝謝您剛剛的進度回覆我們很希望後續在確定修完這個相關辦法之後真的可以落實到基層公務人員的身上\n680593\t702169\t讓他們在友善育兒這件事情真的有覺得政府有在照顧大家那最後我要拜託一下監察院就是最近有一個獨家新聞在講到關於未成年抽血的事情我講的是未成年那我想這邊我就是簡單拜託監察院在相關新聞上有注意進度然後確保在相關研究議題上是有進度或者是監察院這邊有沒有什麼想法\n704190\t726518\t有關於那個運動員提的是運動員抽血案未成年因為這個相關的新聞竟然講的是四所公立大學的未成年的部分是 那這個部分我們回去我們會立刻蒐集相關的資料來研究一下看是不是需要發文還是含查的好是 謝謝委員OK 好 謝謝那就拜託你們注意了好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 那有先請全序部 謝謝麻煩次長\n好 那早安我想我們今天要討論的是關於政務人員是不是要行政中立這件事情那當然後續的法條我們也許之後還可以開公聽會來討論可是我想我們之前看到考試院的立場說得非常清楚考試院管的是公務人員而不是政務人員可是我們在看到考試院的報告裡面對於各國制度的掌握其實已經給了立法院一份研究的建議那這個建議當中\n有特別提到一件事情我也想要跟您確認說其實有非常多民主國家對於政務人員相關規範並沒有所謂的專法的狀況 是不是 是不是講是 就是說沒有一個叫做 就是類似這樣法但他們的規範行為會散在其他不同的法律裡面也是有做一些規範那台灣現行也是這樣嘛 對不對目前我們大概主要是在行政中立法跟公務員服務法\n大概站在這還有懲戒法也有對他們一些規劃那可是對於有些委員提案的版本你們目前有沒有什麼規劃或者是要討論的進度基本上我們是尊重但是就是程獨我們在今天提給大院委員的報告因為我們認為因為\n考試院基本上是法制嘛那因為政務人員本來他的行為就很多元跟動態那未來在譬如說哪些行為應該如何或應該怎麼樣來做處理這部分我們會比較建議說行政院或許比我們更適合來做因為畢竟目前中央跟地方的政務人員以人數來講是都幾乎集中在行政院跟地方政府\n政府裡面所以我們會比較認為說才會跟大院報告說我們建議未來是應該由行政院來做這樣的一個主管機關會比較適合所以會給行政院這樣的建議可是對於現在相關委員的版本裡面他們到底含括哪些人哪些範圍的人員其實我覺得也是後續要去研究包含有沒有包含所謂的民選首長這個部分我覺得可能是會大家其中會有一些歧異的地方是\n好那這個我也想要建議主席也許因為主席今天已經安排了但是我還是想要建議主席也許有機會我真的覺得應該要在辦公廳會我們把這個大家對於這件事情的理解或者是範圍定義有多廣然後這件事情我覺得還可以後續來做討論好不好好謝謝那這邊先請回謝謝接下來我想要請任總跟保訓會\n好早安我想要跟您分享一下我們這個禮拜在勞動部看到一個非常棒的政策說如果在職場上有被害人他有性騷擾的議題他必須要到場調解而這個調解雇主必須要安心給予工價這個部分是勞動部的政策那一樣只要相關勞動政策我相信所有公務人員可能也會想問那身為公務人員他們如果有相關議題或者是在職場上有被不當對待那\n在參加性平調解或者是相關的會議當中我們的公務人員可不可以也請公假這個部分目前有相關的規範或者是討論過嗎如果沒有的話是不是可以把勞動部的這個建議也想一下在公務人員這邊我們可以怎麼規範都會比照\n跟委員報告這是全部主管但是全部的請假規則裡面就是這個是公園是性評法適用的對象請假規則裡面就有規範所以性評法那邊有規範就我們就會一體適用\n所以原則上如果《性平法》裡面寫法是可以的那如果是這樣我其實也想鼓勵這邊我覺得要可以宣傳對內要讓我們公務員知道如果他們真的運氣很不好在職場上遇到這樣的事情他必須要請公價我們必須要給予公價的支持好不好\n那接下來要說勞動部在這個相關的文章還有提到僱傭單位如果因此有不利益的對待違反規定勞工還可以檢舉相關事證去跟勞政主管機關或是勞動部的相關專線提出申請那如果我們公務員遇到這個沒有辦法請公家的狀況他們可以向誰申訴或是可以向誰檢舉讓他們可以保障自己的權益那也展現政府機關照顧公務員的決心\n沒關係 如果現在還不確定 機關會跟機關他本身就可以跟機關去反映去反映 對那如果他沒有得到相應的解決那基本上就會落到救濟的範疇那就保訓會可以跟保訓會提申訴\n那我也建議保訓會其實我們已經有相關規範了也有相關可以做的路徑跟方法那真的是要加強推廣讓我們的公務人員知道政府機關在這件事情上是有決心而且已經有法規範而且也有途徑好不好\n謝謝委員 建議我們會努力來做好 謝謝因為不是我不是說你們沒做到是已經有了那我們就要把它講出來好不好因為我認為勞動部做這個圖卡其實非常非常的清楚那我相信保訓會這邊應該也是好那這邊先這樣好接下來我想要談一下關於運動部即將成立可是我們其實擔心另外一件事情也想要跟您請教運動部在我們要講運動部而是說原本\n系屬於教育部的行政訴訟啦 訴願性平的霸凌案在阻改的過程當中我們如何讓持續的案子被可以好好的完善的往下走這邊我想要聽聽看您的建議因為我們之前陸陸續續跟行政院考試院人總衛福部勞動部去請教如果在改組之後在不同的情況下到了不同的機關去那適用的法規在阻改前後可能會有一些不一樣那我這邊想要請你們給我一個說法就是人總跟犬序部這邊\n是不是可以協助教育部先在9月9號之前有沒有機會跨部會討論協助教育部的體育署相關改組之後就是運動部升格之後相關的這些爭議的系數我們要怎麼樣銜接過去\n跟委員報告運動部的籌組在行政局有組一個跨部會的相關的籌備工作小組也一直在進行大概包括各個面向 不管組織 業務包括他的預算等等有關於業務的職長或者是權限的管轄的劃分在暫停條例\n第三條上面其實有一個原則性的規範應該是隨著業務去做相關的移轉但是如果有涉及到所謂訴訟等等的這個可能就必須要回歸到各個主管機關市發院 行政院 考試院勞動部委員這個意見我們會帶給這個小組來\n來跟他們建議我自己猜測啦 我也比較關心性騷啦 或者是霸凌啦 行政訴訟這個我們有去做過了解目前是沒有這樣的案子目前沒有所以在改組之後也不會有相關的問題目前沒有個案在進行\n我指的是在教育部當中必須要跟體育有關的在運動部成立之後目前你們整理出來是沒有我們現在的恰的結果是恰的結果是性品案件跟犯人案件目前是\n沒有個案再進行OK OK OK 好那如果有的話我覺得就是再次確定如果有的話跨部會議很重要那至於有沒有行政訴訟的部分也再麻煩你們確定好不好如同您剛剛說性評的部分沒有霸凌的部分也沒有嘛對不對好那希望行政訴訟的部分也去做相關確定好那接下來還是要回到公務人員職場育兒一直以來我都有跟權敘部討論相關的問題謝謝\n現在在公務人員任用法第22條裡面我們有一個非常棒的政策我要再次謝謝全序部有提到所謂友善育兒的條款所以友善育兒就是說小朋友在三歲以下的時候\n如果是公務人員我可以調職到跟小朋友居住地的同一個縣市我認為這個條文利益非常良善而且確實可以讓我們的公務機關的公務人員認為政府機關在照顧我們而且協助我們育兒可是呢問題是在這個條款的第二款還有一個但書就是要實際任職達公務人員考試法鎖定限制轉調期間三分之一以上\n也就是公務人員目前如果要待三年的這個基本設計來說小朋友出生後還要等一年才能轉掉也就是現行的制度會把我們的公務員跟他的孩子至少分隔一年左右那我要說你們其實在考試院有了解到這個問題考試院自己主動注意到這個問題所以在今年三月的考試院的會議就有考試委員建議你們要進一步去了解並且\n確定一下有多少相關的個案受到影響未來還可以怎麼調整我在想這邊是不是可以請跟全序部討論一下你們有沒有機會進一步評估那連同你們現在了解的狀況做一個報告\n我跟委員報告一下就是說因為因為剛剛您提示到那個部分那是本法的規範那當然在法律沒修正前是沒有辦法變動但是我們對於這一條怎麼在執行商調裡面這一塊我們部裡面已經有您的一個草案送到考試院去那原則上就是說如果說屬於這個狀況的人他在這個機關因為我們現在未來對於商調是直接要求就是說\n機關不能再無限拖啦我們會要有一個要求一個時間點那我們希望說你至少在這個機關要任職滿六個月但是我們有但書這個部分也是屬於不必不必說一定會要任職滿六個月以上的範圍啦但這還是不能排除本法三分之\n三分之一的問題那這樣的話就會讓他在辦理商調的時候他就可以很清楚什麼時候他就可以掉手因為我們現在的修正方式就是直接要機關把明確的商調的時間點要把它明確出來而且我們有做了幾個限制譬如說原則上最多三個月那有特殊狀況之下的話最多可以在三個月所以最多就是六個月但是這個情形它是不會被動到三個月的狀況\n因為他這是育兒的這個情形對對對所以我們其實是有機會改善而且考試院都已經提出建議了我們也有提修正案太好了非常謝謝全序部這個很正向的回應那不知道後續進度我們大概我們現在在等考試院全院的審查會如果通過以後這個應該就可以就可以那個來發布再實施\n太好了我覺得這個公務機關對於友善育兒這件事情我們確實一步一步在往前走所以在這個進度上也謝謝您剛剛的進度回覆我們很希望後續在確定修完這個相關辦法之後真的可以落實到基層公務人員的身上\n讓他們在友善育兒這件事情真的有覺得政府有在照顧大家那最後我要拜託一下監察院就是最近有一個獨家新聞在講到關於未成年抽血的事情我講的是未成年那我想這邊我就是簡單拜託監察院在相關新聞上有注意進度然後確保在相關研究議題上是有進度或者是監察院這邊有沒有什麼想法\n有關於那個運動員提的是運動員抽血案未成年因為這個相關的新聞竟然講的是四所公立大學的未成年的部分是 那這個部分我們回去我們會立刻蒐集相關的資料來研究一下看是不是需要發文還是含查的好是 謝謝委員OK 好 謝謝那就拜託你們注意了好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:06.684 --> 00:09.993\n好謝謝主席那有先請全序部謝謝麻煩次長\n\n00:17.230 --> 00:39.660\n好那早安我想我們今天要討論的是關於政務人員是不是要行政中立這件事情那當然後續的法條我們也許之後還可以開公聽會來討論可是我想我們之前看到考試院的立場說得非常清楚考試院管的是公務人員而不是政務人員可是我們在看到考試院的報告裡面對於各國制度的掌握其實已經給了立法院一份研究的建議那這個建議當中\n\n00:41.441 --> 01:04.671\n有特別提到一件事情我也想要跟您確認說其實有非常多民主國家對於政務人員相關規範並沒有所謂的專法的狀況是不是是不是講是就是說沒有一個叫做就是類似這樣法但他們的規範行為會散在其他不同的法律裡面也是有做一些規範那台灣現行也是這樣嘛對不對目前我們大概主要是在行政中立法跟公務員服務法\n\n01:05.211 --> 01:20.669\n大概站在這還有懲戒法也有對他們一些規劃那可是對於有些委員提案的版本你們目前有沒有什麼規劃或者是要討論的進度基本上我們是尊重但是就是程獨我們在今天提給大院委員的報告因為我們認為因為\n\n01:22.010 --> 01:45.497\n考試院基本上是法制嘛那因為政務人員本來他的行為就很多元跟動態那未來在譬如說哪些行為應該如何或應該怎麼樣來做處理這部分我們會比較建議說行政院或許比我們更適合來做因為畢竟目前中央跟地方的政務人員以人數來講是都幾乎集中在行政院跟地方政府\n\n01:46.417 --> 02:09.421\n政府裡面所以我們會比較認為說才會跟大院報告說我們建議未來是應該由行政院來做這樣的一個主管機關會比較適合所以會給行政院這樣的建議可是對於現在相關委員的版本裡面他們到底含括哪些人哪些範圍的人員其實我覺得也是後續要去研究包含有沒有包含所謂的民選首長這個部分我覺得可能是會大家其中會有一些歧異的地方是\n\n02:09.801 --> 02:29.450\n好那這個我也想要建議主席也許因為主席今天已經安排了但是我還是想要建議主席也許有機會我真的覺得應該要在辦公廳會我們把這個大家對於這件事情的理解或者是範圍定義有多廣然後這件事情我覺得還可以後續來做討論好不好好謝謝那這邊先請回謝謝接下來我想要請任總跟保訓會\n\n02:38.564 --> 03:04.315\n好早安我想要跟您分享一下我們這個禮拜在勞動部看到一個非常棒的政策說如果在職場上有被害人他有性騷擾的議題他必須要到場調解而這個調解雇主必須要安心給予工價這個部分是勞動部的政策那一樣只要相關勞動政策我相信所有公務人員可能也會想問那身為公務人員他們如果有相關議題或者是在職場上有被不當對待那\n\n03:06.616 --> 03:22.824\n在參加性平調解或者是相關的會議當中我們的公務人員可不可以也請公假這個部分目前有相關的規範或者是討論過嗎如果沒有的話是不是可以把勞動部的這個建議也想一下在公務人員這邊我們可以怎麼規範都會比照\n\n03:28.588 --> 03:41.066\n跟委員報告這是全部主管但是全部的請假規則裡面就是這個是公園是性評法適用的對象請假規則裡面就有規範所以性評法那邊有規範就我們就會一體適用\n\n03:45.131 --> 04:02.676\n所以原則上如果《性平法》裡面寫法是可以的那如果是這樣我其實也想鼓勵這邊我覺得要可以宣傳對內要讓我們公務員知道如果他們真的運氣很不好在職場上遇到這樣的事情他必須要請公價我們必須要給予公價的支持好不好\n\n04:04.176 --> 04:29.372\n那接下來要說勞動部在這個相關的文章還有提到僱傭單位如果因此有不利益的對待違反規定勞工還可以檢舉相關事證去跟勞政主管機關或是勞動部的相關專線提出申請那如果我們公務員遇到這個沒有辦法請公家的狀況他們可以向誰申訴或是可以向誰檢舉讓他們可以保障自己的權益那也展現政府機關照顧公務員的決心\n\n04:35.649 --> 04:52.817\n沒關係如果現在還不確定機關會跟機關他本身就可以跟機關去反映去反映對那如果他沒有得到相應的解決那基本上就會落到救濟的範疇那就保訓會可以跟保訓會提申訴\n\n04:53.757 --> 05:07.159\n那我也建議保訓會其實我們已經有相關規範了也有相關可以做的路徑跟方法那真的是要加強推廣讓我們的公務人員知道政府機關在這件事情上是有決心而且已經有法規範而且也有途徑好不好\n\n05:09.066 --> 05:33.659\n謝謝委員建議我們會努力來做好謝謝因為不是我不是說你們沒做到是已經有了那我們就要把它講出來好不好因為我認為勞動部做這個圖卡其實非常非常的清楚那我相信保訓會這邊應該也是好那這邊先這樣好接下來我想要談一下關於運動部即將成立可是我們其實擔心另外一件事情也想要跟您請教運動部在我們要講運動部而是說原本\n\n05:34.139 --> 06:02.839\n系屬於教育部的行政訴訟啦訴願性平的霸凌案在阻改的過程當中我們如何讓持續的案子被可以好好的完善的往下走這邊我想要聽聽看您的建議因為我們之前陸陸續續跟行政院考試院人總衛福部勞動部去請教如果在改組之後在不同的情況下到了不同的機關去那適用的法規在阻改前後可能會有一些不一樣那我這邊想要請你們給我一個說法就是人總跟犬序部這邊\n\n06:03.479 --> 06:17.856\n是不是可以協助教育部先在9月9號之前有沒有機會跨部會討論協助教育部的體育署相關改組之後就是運動部升格之後相關的這些爭議的系數我們要怎麼樣銜接過去\n\n06:20.629 --> 06:43.823\n跟委員報告運動部的籌組在行政局有組一個跨部會的相關的籌備工作小組也一直在進行大概包括各個面向不管組織業務包括他的預算等等有關於業務的職長或者是權限的管轄的劃分在暫停條例\n\n06:45.564 --> 07:00.308\n第三條上面其實有一個原則性的規範應該是隨著業務去做相關的移轉但是如果有涉及到所謂訴訟等等的這個可能就必須要回歸到各個主管機關市發院行政院考試院勞動部委員這個意見我們會帶給這個小組來\n\n07:05.851 --> 07:26.813\n來跟他們建議我自己猜測啦我也比較關心性騷啦或者是霸凌啦行政訴訟這個我們有去做過了解目前是沒有這樣的案子目前沒有所以在改組之後也不會有相關的問題目前沒有個案在進行\n\n07:27.874 --> 07:43.931\n我指的是在教育部當中必須要跟體育有關的在運動部成立之後目前你們整理出來是沒有我們現在的恰的結果是恰的結果是性品案件跟犯人案件目前是\n\n07:44.511 --> 08:05.693\n沒有個案再進行OKOKOK好那如果有的話我覺得就是再次確定如果有的話跨部會議很重要那至於有沒有行政訴訟的部分也再麻煩你們確定好不好如同您剛剛說性評的部分沒有霸凌的部分也沒有嘛對不對好那希望行政訴訟的部分也去做相關確定好那接下來還是要回到公務人員職場育兒一直以來我都有跟權敘部討論相關的問題謝謝\n\n08:09.337 --> 08:22.391\n現在在公務人員任用法第22條裡面我們有一個非常棒的政策我要再次謝謝全序部有提到所謂友善育兒的條款所以友善育兒就是說小朋友在三歲以下的時候\n\n08:23.032 --> 08:45.812\n如果是公務人員我可以調職到跟小朋友居住地的同一個縣市我認為這個條文利益非常良善而且確實可以讓我們的公務機關的公務人員認為政府機關在照顧我們而且協助我們育兒可是呢問題是在這個條款的第二款還有一個但書就是要實際任職達公務人員考試法鎖定限制轉調期間三分之一以上\n\n08:46.613 --> 09:12.847\n也就是公務人員目前如果要待三年的這個基本設計來說小朋友出生後還要等一年才能轉掉也就是現行的制度會把我們的公務員跟他的孩子至少分隔一年左右那我要說你們其實在考試院有了解到這個問題考試院自己主動注意到這個問題所以在今年三月的考試院的會議就有考試委員建議你們要進一步去了解並且\n\n09:14.228 --> 09:25.013\n確定一下有多少相關的個案受到影響未來還可以怎麼調整我在想這邊是不是可以請跟全序部討論一下你們有沒有機會進一步評估那連同你們現在了解的狀況做一個報告\n\n09:26.937 --> 09:56.184\n我跟委員報告一下就是說因為因為剛剛您提示到那個部分那是本法的規範那當然在法律沒修正前是沒有辦法變動但是我們對於這一條怎麼在執行商調裡面這一塊我們部裡面已經有您的一個草案送到考試院去那原則上就是說如果說屬於這個狀況的人他在這個機關因為我們現在未來對於商調是直接要求就是說\n\n09:57.104 --> 10:13.854\n機關不能再無限拖啦我們會要有一個要求一個時間點那我們希望說你至少在這個機關要任職滿六個月但是我們有但書這個部分也是屬於不必不必說一定會要任職滿六個月以上的範圍啦但這還是不能排除本法三分之\n\n10:14.955 --> 10:43.094\n三分之一的問題那這樣的話就會讓他在辦理商調的時候他就可以很清楚什麼時候他就可以掉手因為我們現在的修正方式就是直接要機關把明確的商調的時間點要把它明確出來而且我們有做了幾個限制譬如說原則上最多三個月那有特殊狀況之下的話最多可以在三個月所以最多就是六個月但是這個情形它是不會被動到三個月的狀況\n\n10:44.915 --> 11:04.856\n因為他這是育兒的這個情形對對對所以我們其實是有機會改善而且考試院都已經提出建議了我們也有提修正案太好了非常謝謝全序部這個很正向的回應那不知道後續進度我們大概我們現在在等考試院全院的審查會如果通過以後這個應該就可以就可以那個來發布再實施\n\n11:05.416 --> 11:20.033\n太好了我覺得這個公務機關對於友善育兒這件事情我們確實一步一步在往前走所以在這個進度上也謝謝您剛剛的進度回覆我們很希望後續在確定修完這個相關辦法之後真的可以落實到基層公務人員的身上\n\n11:20.593 --> 11:42.169\n讓他們在友善育兒這件事情真的有覺得政府有在照顧大家那最後我要拜託一下監察院就是最近有一個獨家新聞在講到關於未成年抽血的事情我講的是未成年那我想這邊我就是簡單拜託監察院在相關新聞上有注意進度然後確保在相關研究議題上是有進度或者是監察院這邊有沒有什麼想法\n\n11:44.190 --> 12:06.518\n有關於那個運動員提的是運動員抽血案未成年因為這個相關的新聞竟然講的是四所公立大學的未成年的部分是那這個部分我們回去我們會立刻蒐集相關的資料來研究一下看是不是需要發文還是含查的好是謝謝委員OK好謝謝那就拜託你們注意了好謝謝謝謝主席謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":6.684,"end":9.993,"text":"好 謝謝主席 那有先請全序部 謝謝麻煩次長"},{"start":17.23,"end":39.66,"text":"好 那早安我想我們今天要討論的是關於政務人員是不是要行政中立這件事情那當然後續的法條我們也許之後還可以開公聽會來討論可是我想我們之前看到考試院的立場說得非常清楚考試院管的是公務人員而不是政務人員可是我們在看到考試院的報告裡面對於各國制度的掌握其實已經給了立法院一份研究的建議那這個建議當中"},{"start":41.441,"end":64.671,"text":"有特別提到一件事情我也想要跟您確認說其實有非常多民主國家對於政務人員相關規範並沒有所謂的專法的狀況 是不是 是不是講是 就是說沒有一個叫做 就是類似這樣法但他們的規範行為會散在其他不同的法律裡面也是有做一些規範那台灣現行也是這樣嘛 對不對目前我們大概主要是在行政中立法跟公務員服務法"},{"start":65.211,"end":80.669,"text":"大概站在這還有懲戒法也有對他們一些規劃那可是對於有些委員提案的版本你們目前有沒有什麼規劃或者是要討論的進度基本上我們是尊重但是就是程獨我們在今天提給大院委員的報告因為我們認為因為"},{"start":82.01,"end":105.497,"text":"考試院基本上是法制嘛那因為政務人員本來他的行為就很多元跟動態那未來在譬如說哪些行為應該如何或應該怎麼樣來做處理這部分我們會比較建議說行政院或許比我們更適合來做因為畢竟目前中央跟地方的政務人員以人數來講是都幾乎集中在行政院跟地方政府"},{"start":106.417,"end":129.421,"text":"政府裡面所以我們會比較認為說才會跟大院報告說我們建議未來是應該由行政院來做這樣的一個主管機關會比較適合所以會給行政院這樣的建議可是對於現在相關委員的版本裡面他們到底含括哪些人哪些範圍的人員其實我覺得也是後續要去研究包含有沒有包含所謂的民選首長這個部分我覺得可能是會大家其中會有一些歧異的地方是"},{"start":129.801,"end":149.45,"text":"好那這個我也想要建議主席也許因為主席今天已經安排了但是我還是想要建議主席也許有機會我真的覺得應該要在辦公廳會我們把這個大家對於這件事情的理解或者是範圍定義有多廣然後這件事情我覺得還可以後續來做討論好不好好謝謝那這邊先請回謝謝接下來我想要請任總跟保訓會"},{"start":158.564,"end":184.315,"text":"好早安我想要跟您分享一下我們這個禮拜在勞動部看到一個非常棒的政策說如果在職場上有被害人他有性騷擾的議題他必須要到場調解而這個調解雇主必須要安心給予工價這個部分是勞動部的政策那一樣只要相關勞動政策我相信所有公務人員可能也會想問那身為公務人員他們如果有相關議題或者是在職場上有被不當對待那"},{"start":186.616,"end":202.824,"text":"在參加性平調解或者是相關的會議當中我們的公務人員可不可以也請公假這個部分目前有相關的規範或者是討論過嗎如果沒有的話是不是可以把勞動部的這個建議也想一下在公務人員這邊我們可以怎麼規範都會比照"},{"start":208.588,"end":221.066,"text":"跟委員報告這是全部主管但是全部的請假規則裡面就是這個是公園是性評法適用的對象請假規則裡面就有規範所以性評法那邊有規範就我們就會一體適用"},{"start":225.131,"end":242.676,"text":"所以原則上如果《性平法》裡面寫法是可以的那如果是這樣我其實也想鼓勵這邊我覺得要可以宣傳對內要讓我們公務員知道如果他們真的運氣很不好在職場上遇到這樣的事情他必須要請公價我們必須要給予公價的支持好不好"},{"start":244.176,"end":269.372,"text":"那接下來要說勞動部在這個相關的文章還有提到僱傭單位如果因此有不利益的對待違反規定勞工還可以檢舉相關事證去跟勞政主管機關或是勞動部的相關專線提出申請那如果我們公務員遇到這個沒有辦法請公家的狀況他們可以向誰申訴或是可以向誰檢舉讓他們可以保障自己的權益那也展現政府機關照顧公務員的決心"},{"start":275.649,"end":292.817,"text":"沒關係 如果現在還不確定 機關會跟機關他本身就可以跟機關去反映去反映 對那如果他沒有得到相應的解決那基本上就會落到救濟的範疇那就保訓會可以跟保訓會提申訴"},{"start":293.757,"end":307.159,"text":"那我也建議保訓會其實我們已經有相關規範了也有相關可以做的路徑跟方法那真的是要加強推廣讓我們的公務人員知道政府機關在這件事情上是有決心而且已經有法規範而且也有途徑好不好"},{"start":309.066,"end":333.659,"text":"謝謝委員 建議我們會努力來做好 謝謝因為不是我不是說你們沒做到是已經有了那我們就要把它講出來好不好因為我認為勞動部做這個圖卡其實非常非常的清楚那我相信保訓會這邊應該也是好那這邊先這樣好接下來我想要談一下關於運動部即將成立可是我們其實擔心另外一件事情也想要跟您請教運動部在我們要講運動部而是說原本"},{"start":334.139,"end":362.839,"text":"系屬於教育部的行政訴訟啦 訴願性平的霸凌案在阻改的過程當中我們如何讓持續的案子被可以好好的完善的往下走這邊我想要聽聽看您的建議因為我們之前陸陸續續跟行政院考試院人總衛福部勞動部去請教如果在改組之後在不同的情況下到了不同的機關去那適用的法規在阻改前後可能會有一些不一樣那我這邊想要請你們給我一個說法就是人總跟犬序部這邊"},{"start":363.479,"end":377.856,"text":"是不是可以協助教育部先在9月9號之前有沒有機會跨部會討論協助教育部的體育署相關改組之後就是運動部升格之後相關的這些爭議的系數我們要怎麼樣銜接過去"},{"start":380.629,"end":403.823,"text":"跟委員報告運動部的籌組在行政局有組一個跨部會的相關的籌備工作小組也一直在進行大概包括各個面向 不管組織 業務包括他的預算等等有關於業務的職長或者是權限的管轄的劃分在暫停條例"},{"start":405.564,"end":420.308,"text":"第三條上面其實有一個原則性的規範應該是隨著業務去做相關的移轉但是如果有涉及到所謂訴訟等等的這個可能就必須要回歸到各個主管機關市發院 行政院 考試院勞動部委員這個意見我們會帶給這個小組來"},{"start":425.851,"end":446.813,"text":"來跟他們建議我自己猜測啦 我也比較關心性騷啦 或者是霸凌啦 行政訴訟這個我們有去做過了解目前是沒有這樣的案子目前沒有所以在改組之後也不會有相關的問題目前沒有個案在進行"},{"start":447.874,"end":463.931,"text":"我指的是在教育部當中必須要跟體育有關的在運動部成立之後目前你們整理出來是沒有我們現在的恰的結果是恰的結果是性品案件跟犯人案件目前是"},{"start":464.511,"end":485.693,"text":"沒有個案再進行OK OK OK 好那如果有的話我覺得就是再次確定如果有的話跨部會議很重要那至於有沒有行政訴訟的部分也再麻煩你們確定好不好如同您剛剛說性評的部分沒有霸凌的部分也沒有嘛對不對好那希望行政訴訟的部分也去做相關確定好那接下來還是要回到公務人員職場育兒一直以來我都有跟權敘部討論相關的問題謝謝"},{"start":489.337,"end":502.391,"text":"現在在公務人員任用法第22條裡面我們有一個非常棒的政策我要再次謝謝全序部有提到所謂友善育兒的條款所以友善育兒就是說小朋友在三歲以下的時候"},{"start":503.032,"end":525.812,"text":"如果是公務人員我可以調職到跟小朋友居住地的同一個縣市我認為這個條文利益非常良善而且確實可以讓我們的公務機關的公務人員認為政府機關在照顧我們而且協助我們育兒可是呢問題是在這個條款的第二款還有一個但書就是要實際任職達公務人員考試法鎖定限制轉調期間三分之一以上"},{"start":526.613,"end":552.847,"text":"也就是公務人員目前如果要待三年的這個基本設計來說小朋友出生後還要等一年才能轉掉也就是現行的制度會把我們的公務員跟他的孩子至少分隔一年左右那我要說你們其實在考試院有了解到這個問題考試院自己主動注意到這個問題所以在今年三月的考試院的會議就有考試委員建議你們要進一步去了解並且"},{"start":554.228,"end":565.013,"text":"確定一下有多少相關的個案受到影響未來還可以怎麼調整我在想這邊是不是可以請跟全序部討論一下你們有沒有機會進一步評估那連同你們現在了解的狀況做一個報告"},{"start":566.937,"end":596.184,"text":"我跟委員報告一下就是說因為因為剛剛您提示到那個部分那是本法的規範那當然在法律沒修正前是沒有辦法變動但是我們對於這一條怎麼在執行商調裡面這一塊我們部裡面已經有您的一個草案送到考試院去那原則上就是說如果說屬於這個狀況的人他在這個機關因為我們現在未來對於商調是直接要求就是說"},{"start":597.104,"end":613.854,"text":"機關不能再無限拖啦我們會要有一個要求一個時間點那我們希望說你至少在這個機關要任職滿六個月但是我們有但書這個部分也是屬於不必不必說一定會要任職滿六個月以上的範圍啦但這還是不能排除本法三分之"},{"start":614.955,"end":643.094,"text":"三分之一的問題那這樣的話就會讓他在辦理商調的時候他就可以很清楚什麼時候他就可以掉手因為我們現在的修正方式就是直接要機關把明確的商調的時間點要把它明確出來而且我們有做了幾個限制譬如說原則上最多三個月那有特殊狀況之下的話最多可以在三個月所以最多就是六個月但是這個情形它是不會被動到三個月的狀況"},{"start":644.915,"end":664.856,"text":"因為他這是育兒的這個情形對對對所以我們其實是有機會改善而且考試院都已經提出建議了我們也有提修正案太好了非常謝謝全序部這個很正向的回應那不知道後續進度我們大概我們現在在等考試院全院的審查會如果通過以後這個應該就可以就可以那個來發布再實施"},{"start":665.416,"end":680.033,"text":"太好了我覺得這個公務機關對於友善育兒這件事情我們確實一步一步在往前走所以在這個進度上也謝謝您剛剛的進度回覆我們很希望後續在確定修完這個相關辦法之後真的可以落實到基層公務人員的身上"},{"start":680.593,"end":702.169,"text":"讓他們在友善育兒這件事情真的有覺得政府有在照顧大家那最後我要拜託一下監察院就是最近有一個獨家新聞在講到關於未成年抽血的事情我講的是未成年那我想這邊我就是簡單拜託監察院在相關新聞上有注意進度然後確保在相關研究議題上是有進度或者是監察院這邊有沒有什麼想法"},{"start":704.19,"end":726.518,"text":"有關於那個運動員提的是運動員抽血案未成年因為這個相關的新聞竟然講的是四所公立大學的未成年的部分是 那這個部分我們回去我們會立刻蒐集相關的資料來研究一下看是不是需要發文還是含查的好是 謝謝委員OK 好 謝謝那就拜託你們注意了好 謝謝謝謝主席 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":420,"blocks":[["陳委員培瑜：（10時16分）謝謝主席，先請銓敘部，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩次長。"],["懷次長敍：委員早。"],["陳委員培瑜：早安。我想我們今天要討論的是關於政務人員是不是要行政中立這件事情，當然後續的法條，我們也許之後還可以開公聽會來討論，可是我想我們之前看到考試院的立場說得非常清楚，考試院管的是公務人員而不是政務人員，可是我們看到在考試院的報告裡面，對於各國制度的掌握其實已經給了立法院一份研究的建議喔！這個建議當中有特別提到一件事情，我也想要跟您確認，其實有非常多民主國家對於政務人員相關規範並沒有所謂的專法的狀況，是不是這樣？"],["懷次長敍：是，就是沒有一個類似這樣的法案，但他們的規範行為會散在其他不同的法律裡面，也是有做一些規範。"],["陳委員培瑜：那臺灣現行也是這樣嘛，對不對？"],["懷次長敍：對，目前我們大概主要是分散規範在行政中立法跟公務員服務法，還有懲戒法也有對他們的一些規範。"],["陳委員培瑜：可是對於有些委員提案的版本，你們目前有沒有什麼規劃或者是要討論的進度？"],["懷次長敍：基本上我們是尊重，但是就誠如我們在今天提給大院委員的報告，因為我們認為考試院基本上是法制，而政務人員本來他的行為就很多元跟動態，未來在譬如說哪些行為應該如何或應該怎麼樣來做處理，這部分我們會比較建議說行政院或許比我們更適合來做，因為畢竟目前中央跟地方的政務人員，以人數來講，都幾乎集中在行政院跟地方政府裡面，所以我們才會跟大院報告說，我們建議未來應該是由行政院來做主管機關會比較適合。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，所以會給行政院這樣的建議，可是對於現在相關委員的版本裡面，他們到底含括哪些範圍的人員，其實我覺得也是後續要去研究……"],["懷次長敍：是是是。"],["陳委員培瑜：包含有沒有包括所謂的民選首長這個部分，我覺得可能是其中大家會有些歧異的地方。"],["懷次長敍：是。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，因為主席今天已經安排了，但是我還是想要建議主席，也許有機會我真的覺得應該要再辦公聽會，我們把大家對於這件事情的理解或者是範圍定義有多廣，這件事情我覺得還可以後續來做討論，好不好？好，謝謝，這邊先請回，謝謝。"],["懷次長敍：謝謝。"],["陳委員培瑜：接下來我想要請人總跟保訓會。","早安。我想跟您分享一下，這禮拜我們看到勞動部有一個非常棒的政策，如果在職場上有被害人遇到性騷擾的議題，他必須要到場調解，而這個調解雇主必須要安心給予公假，這是勞動部的政策。那一樣，只要相關的勞動政策，我相信所有公務人員可能也會想問，身為公務人員，他們如果有相關議題，或者是在職場上有被不當對待，在參加性平調解或者是相關的會議當中，我們的公務人員可不可以也請公假？這個部分目前有相關的規範，或者是討論過嗎？如果沒有的話，是不是可以把勞動部的這個建議也想一下，在公務人員這邊我們可以怎麼規範？"],["張副人事長秋元：跟委員報告，這是銓敘部主管的，但是銓敘部的請假規則裡面，公務員是性平法適用的對象，請假規則裡面就有規範，所以性平法那邊有規範，我們就會一體適用。"],["陳委員培瑜：原則上，如果性平法裡面的寫法是可以的……"],["張副人事長秋元：性平法已經定的，公務人員就會受到同樣的規範。"],["陳委員培瑜：如果是這樣，我其實也想鼓勵，我覺得要可以宣傳，對內要讓公務員知道，如果他們真的運氣很不好，在職場上遇到這樣的事情必須請公假，我們必須給予公假的支持，好不好？"],["張副人事長秋元：沒有問題。"],["陳委員培瑜：謝謝。接下來要說的是，勞動部在相關的文章中提到，僱傭單位如果因此有不利益的對待、違反規定，勞工還可以檢舉相關事證跟勞政主管機關或是勞動部的相關專線提出申請。如果公務員遇到這種沒有辦法請公假的狀況，他們可以向誰申訴，或是可以向誰檢舉，讓他們可以保障自己的權益，也展現政府機關照顧公務員的決心？沒有關係，如果現在還不確定……"],["張副人事長秋元：機關會跟機關……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，會跟機關？"],["張副人事長秋元：他本身就可以跟機關反映。"],["陳委員培瑜：去反映？"],["張副人事長秋元：對。如果他沒有得到相應的解決，基本上就會落到救濟的範疇。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。"],["張副人事長秋元：就可以向保訓會提起申訴、再申訴。"],["陳委員培瑜：那我也建議保訓會，其實我們已經有相關規範了，也有相關可以做的路徑跟方法，真的要加強推廣，讓公務人員知道政府機關在這件事情上是有決心、有法規範，而且也有途徑，好不好？"],["張副人事長秋元：謝謝委員的建議，我們會努力來做。"],["陳委員培瑜：不是，我不說你們沒做到，而是已經有了，我們就要把它講出來，好不好？因為我認為勞動部做的這個圖卡其實非常清楚，相信保訓會應該也是。","接下來我想談一下關於運動部即將成立，可是我們其實擔心另外一件事情，也想跟您請教，原本繫屬於教育部的行政訴訟、訴願、性平的霸凌案在組改的過程當中，要如何讓案子可以持續完善地往下走？我想聽聽看您的建議。因為我們之前陸陸續續跟行政院、考試院、人總、衛福部、勞動部請教，如果在改組之後、在不同的情況下到了不同的機關，適用的法規在組改前後可能會有一些不一樣，我想請你們給我一個說法，就是人總跟銓敘部是不是可以協助教育部先在9月9號之前，有沒有機會跨部會討論，協助教育部體育署在相關的改組之後，也就是升格成運動部之後，這些相關爭議的繫屬要怎麼銜接過去？"],["張副人事長秋元：跟委員報告，有關運動部的籌組，行政院其實有組一個跨部會的相關籌備工作小組，也一直在進行包括各個面向、組織、業務、預算等等。有關業務職掌或是權限管轄的劃分，在暫行條例第三條上面其實已有原則性的規範，應該就是隨著業務去做相關的移轉，但是如有涉及訴訟等等，可能就必須回歸到各個主管機關，像是司法院、行政院、考試院、勞動部。對於委員的這個意見，我們會帶到小組去給他們建議。就我自己的猜測，像委員比較關心性騷擾或是霸凌……"],["陳委員培瑜：其實不管是性平、霸凌的行政訴訟……"],["張副人事長秋元：我們有去瞭解過，目前是沒有這樣的案子。"],["陳委員培瑜：目前沒有？"],["張副人事長秋元：目前沒有。"],["陳委員培瑜：所以在改組之後也不會有相關的問題？"],["張副人事長秋元：目前沒有個案在進行。"],["陳委員培瑜：我指的是在教育部當中必須跟體育有關的，在運動部成立之後……"],["張副人事長秋元：就是體育署的這個系統，目前是……"],["陳委員培瑜：目前你們整理出來是沒有。"],["張副人事長秋元：我們現在接洽的結果是……"],["陳委員培瑜：在跨部會確定當中？"],["張副人事長秋元：接洽的結果是，性平案件跟霸凌案件目前是沒有個案在進行的。"],["陳委員培瑜：OK，我覺得就是再次確定，如果有的話，跨部會會議就很重要，至於有沒有行政訴訟的部分也再麻煩你們確定，好不好？就如同你剛剛說的，性平的部分沒有，霸凌的部分也沒有，對不對？好，希望行政訴訟的部分也去做相關的確定。","接下來還是要回到公務人員職場育兒，一直以來我都有跟銓敘部討論相關的問題。現在在公務人員任用法第二十二條裡面有一個非常棒的政策，我要再次謝謝銓敘部，其中有提到友善育兒的條款。所謂「友善育兒」就是小朋友在3歲以下，我如果是公務人員就可以調職到跟小朋友居住地的同一個縣市。我認為這個條文的立意非常良善，而且確實可以讓公務機關的公務人員認為政府機關有在照顧他們，而且協助他們育兒。","可是問題就在這個條款第二款的但書，就是要「實際任職達公務人員考試法所定限制轉調期間三分之一以上」，以目前公務人員要待三年的這個基本設計來說，小朋友出生後還要等一年才能轉調，也就是現行的制度會把公務員跟他的孩子至少分隔一年左右。其實考試院有了解到這個問題，考試院自己主動注意到這個問題，所以在今年3月考試院的會議就有考試委員建議你們要進一步去了解，並且確定一下有多少相關的個案受到影響，未來還可以怎麼調整。我在想這邊是不是可以跟銓敘部討論一下？你們有沒有機會進一步評估，並連同你們現在了解的狀況做一個報告？"],["懷次長敍：我跟委員報告一下，因為剛剛您提示到三分之一的部分是本法的規範，那個在法律修正前是沒有辦法變動的，但是對於怎麼執行商調人員這一塊，我們部裡面已經有擬了一個草案送到考試院。原則上，如果屬於這個狀況的，因為我們未來對於商調是直接要求機關不能再無限拖……"],["陳委員培瑜：對，上次我們也討論過。"],["懷次長敍：我們會要求一個時間點，雖然我們希望你至少在這個機關要任職滿六個月，但是我們有但書，這個部分是不必一定非要任職滿六個月以上，而這還是不能排除本法規定三分之一的問題，這樣的話就會讓他在辦理商調的時候很清楚他什麼時候可以調走。因為我們現在的修正方式就是直接要機關把商調時間點明確出來，而且我們有做了幾個限制，譬如原則上最多三個月，有特殊狀況之下最多可以再三個月，頂多……"],["陳委員培瑜：所以最多就是六個月？"],["懷次長敍：對，但是這個情形是不會用到三個月的那個狀況，因為這是育兒的情形。"],["陳委員培瑜：對，所以我們其實是有機會改善，而且考試院都已經提出建議。"],["懷次長敍：是，我們也有提修正案送到……"],["陳委員培瑜：好，太好了，非常謝謝銓敘部這個很正向的回應，不知道後續進度大概……"],["懷次長敍：我們現在在等考試院全院的審查會，如果通過以後應該就可以發布實施。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，太好了，我覺得公務機關對於友善育兒這件事情確實一步一步在往前走，所以在這個進度上也謝謝您剛剛的回復，我們很希望後續在確定修完這個相關辦法之後，真的可以落實到基層公務人員身上，讓他們在友善育兒這件事情上真的覺得政府有在照顧大家。","最後我要拜託一下監察院，最近有一個獨家新聞講到關於未成年抽血的事情，我講的是未成年，這邊我就是簡單拜託監察院在相關新聞上注意進度，然後確保在相關研究議題上是有進度，或者是監察院有沒有什麼想法？"],["黃處長奕元：委員提的是運動員抽血案嗎？"],["陳委員培瑜：未成年，因為相關新聞講的是4所公立大學未成年的部分。"],["黃處長奕元：是，這個部分回去我們會立刻蒐集相關的資料，研究一下是不是有需要發文還是函查的情況。"],["陳委員培瑜：好。"],["黃處長奕元：謝謝委員。"],["陳委員培瑜：好，謝謝，那就拜託你們注意了，謝謝主席。"],["主席：謝謝。","下一位請吳思瑤委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":450,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-25","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","羅智強","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","沈發惠","范雲"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2025-08-28"],"gazette_id":"1147602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147602_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續併案審查(一)考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員\n邱志偉等21人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「公\n務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二\n條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員范雲等17人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條、第十一條及第十二條\n條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「政務人員行為基準法草案」案","agenda_id":"1147602_00003"}}}