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\"雖然說我們不忍心看到有任何一個政務官生病請假但是他確實請假這麼長他已經也耽誤了公務公職更何況就是說我們看到有其他的一些法規如果像不管是中選會啊NCC的這些相關組織法如果說是這個委員他離病啊或生病啊等等的話其實行政院長是可以允允免職的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"雖\"}, {\"word\": \"然\", \"start\": 830.818, \"end\": 830.958, \"score\": 0.841}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 830.958, \"end\": 831.319, \"score\": 0.811}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 831.319, \"end\": 831.479, \"score\": 0.844}, {\"word\": \"忍\", \"start\": 831.479, \"end\": 831.679, \"score\": 0.705}, {\"word\": \"心\", \"start\": 831.679, \"end\": 831.859, \"score\": 0.622}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 831.859, \"end\": 832.06, \"score\": 0.803}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 832.06, \"end\": 832.18, \"score\": 0.683}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 832.18, \"end\": 832.32, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"任\", \"start\": 832.32, \"end\": 832.5, \"score\": 0.678}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 832.5, \"end\": 832.62, \"score\": 0.808}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 832.62, \"end\": 832.78, \"score\": 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{\"word\": \"也\", \"start\": 833.541, \"end\": 833.581, \"score\": 0.308}, {\"word\": \"耽\", \"start\": 833.581, \"end\": 833.721, \"score\": 0.854}, {\"word\": \"誤\"}, {\"word\": \"了\", \"start\": 833.721, \"end\": 833.741, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 833.741, \"end\": 833.821, \"score\": 0.197}, {\"word\": \"務\"}, {\"word\": \"公\", \"start\": 833.821, \"end\": 833.841, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"職\"}, {\"word\": \"更\", \"start\": 833.841, \"end\": 833.961, \"score\": 0.83}, {\"word\": \"何\", \"start\": 833.961, \"end\": 834.062, \"score\": 0.178}, {\"word\": \"況\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 834.062, \"end\": 834.082, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 834.082, \"end\": 834.242, \"score\": 0.828}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 834.242, \"end\": 834.302, \"score\": 0.021}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"看\", \"start\": 834.302, \"end\": 834.322, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 834.322, \"end\": 834.642, \"score\": 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\"end\": 1072.552, \"score\": 0.95}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1072.552, \"end\": 1073.232, \"score\": 0.966}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 1073.232, \"end\": 1073.472, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"愧\", \"start\": 1073.472, \"end\": 1073.652, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"於\", \"start\": 1073.652, \"end\": 1074.353, \"score\": 0.915}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 1074.353, \"end\": 1074.773, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 1074.773, \"end\": 1074.953, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 1074.953, \"end\": 1075.073, \"score\": 0.835}, {\"word\": \"意\", \"start\": 1075.073, \"end\": 1075.273, \"score\": 0.899}, {\"word\": \"代\", \"start\": 1075.273, \"end\": 1075.413, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"表\", \"start\": 1075.413, \"end\": 1075.574, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"身\", \"start\": 1075.574, \"end\": 1075.814, \"score\": 0.861}, {\"word\": \"為\"}, {\"word\": \"立\", \"start\": 1075.814, \"end\": 1075.954, \"score\": 0.981}, {\"word\": \"法\", \"start\": 1075.954, \"end\": 1076.094, \"score\": 0.992}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 1076.094, \"end\": 1076.714, \"score\": 0.957}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 1076.714, \"end\": 1076.934, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 1076.934, \"end\": 1077.054, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 1077.054, \"end\": 1077.075, \"score\": 0.995}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,043 --> 00:00:01,104\n好謝謝主席在這邊首先先請國防部王副處長法律事務處軍法事務處副處長王副處長然後也請內政部的簡專委是不是簡專委\n\n2\n00:00:31,221 --> 00:00:40,428\n那首先不好意思那個王副處長我想先請教在過去我在這邊想請教就是在過去這些年裡面我們國軍的待遇調整有多少次\n\n3\n00:00:59,810 --> 00:01:13,876\n我們曾經有多少次調心從105年開始到現在詳細我不知道但是我記得好幾次好那麼這個基本上大概我看了一些新聞從105年起國防部的\n\n4\n00:01:15,140 --> 00:01:35,918\n對於這個軍人的調薪有調整了四次核器達福大概是14%那請問因為我想您在軍中也服役很久了這個您過去有沒有印象就是軍人待遇調薪然後行政院不編預算國防部不編預算的有沒有曾經國防部不編列預算\n\n5\n00:01:41,263 --> 00:02:06,452\n包委員因為這個預算非我們本師我是法律師的法律師應該要了解相關的法制啊是是那有關這個部分我這邊並不清楚是不是我會後那從法律的角度來說您認為我們這個立法院的法律的這個軍人待遇條例都通過了給軍人的待遇調薪尤其是家計的部分調薪那這個部分可以不執行嗎可以不編列預算嗎\n\n6\n00:02:10,114 --> 00:02:19,057\n你們國防部的法律事務處在國防部不編列預算這件事情上面你們有向你們的長官表達過這可能會有違法的疑慮嗎這個部分我們部長在近日對媒體也有回答說基於行政議題的部分所以國防部都沒有向行政院表示過任何\n\n7\n00:02:36,178 --> 00:02:48,104\n這個抗議或是認為說這樣子的做法是有違法疑慮的都沒有把這樣的意見告訴過行政院院長嗎這一部分我這邊並不是很清楚\n\n8\n00:02:50,011 --> 00:03:12,851\n看起來現在顧立雄他就是個聽命行事的國防部部長他根本沒有把國軍弟兄放在心裡他如果說他是個愛護國軍的這個長官的話他今天就應該要在行政院會議上面或者是說他應該要向行政院長去反映怎麼可以法律通過了竟然不編列預算\n\n9\n00:03:14,535 --> 00:03:27,458\n鮑委員從我們部長一上任以來就不斷的跟我們各級的幹部來講這個一定要照顧國軍那針對國軍的各項域的待遇之災我們要聽其言觀其行啦這個副處長您不用幫顧立雄插著抹粉他到底有沒有愛護國軍弟兄這一次的事件就清清楚楚\n\n10\n00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:53,371\n他沒有編列就沒有編列甚至連向行政院院長去抗議去提出異議他都沒有嘛看起來就是這樣那請問接下來我想請問內政部的簡專委內政部部長有沒有向行政院院長提出異議\n\n11\n00:03:58,052 --> 00:04:21,999\n報告委員因為我們今天派員列席的這個部分是不清楚關於這個警校條例的相關的這個加級的問題好我在想應該也沒有我沒有看到劉世芳劉部長在媒體上面有說他要捍衛警校人員的權益然後向行政院長表示異議表示抗議也沒有嘛所以呢不管是\n\n12\n00:04:23,977 --> 00:04:38,402\n這個國防部部長顧立雄或是劉士芳部長內政部部長劉士芳基本上說什麼愛軍愛警消我覺得那都是騙人的好那我現在要講的就是好請兩位先回座接下來請考試院劉秘書長或是權敘部的這個懷次長\n\n13\n00:04:54,564 --> 00:05:02,636\n是請問劉秘書長這次這個考試院針對114年考試院的預算你們有提出釋憲嗎你們當時有\n\n14\n00:05:05,962 --> 00:05:26,270\n加在這個行政院的中央政府總預算裡面一起去提起釋憲嗎考試院的部分總預算因為是這個行政院的權責考試院沒有就這個部分提出所以你我在想可能你也不太清楚到底行政院提出的114年的總預算的釋憲裡面有沒有涵蓋你考試院的部分\n\n15\n00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:41,733\n他是一整本去視線吧他就總預算視線要總預算視線就包含全國但是內容上面的部分我有沒有請你們的有知道的\n\n16\n00:05:44,008 --> 00:06:08,402\n因為我沒有看過那個釋憲文所以不知道他到底提什麼釋憲所以這是很可笑的一件事情卓榮泰他提出了114年的政府總預算的釋憲案裡面可能就包含了考試院司法院監察院而你們卻一無所知你們根本不知道你的預算是不是已經被提起釋憲了我上次有問過司法院的副秘書長他說他不知道\n\n17\n00:06:09,673 --> 00:06:28,614\n但是看起來他這整包的一起去提起釋憲還有就是說按照賴清德的邏輯說如果現在案子申請釋憲案當中就不應該執行那麼114年的中央政府總預算案是不是也應該要停止執行\n\n18\n00:06:33,496 --> 00:06:58,101\n我真的很覺得有的時候看到我們的賴總統的發言卓榮泰院長的發言都讓我覺得說他們怎麼可以雙標到如此的境界114年中央政府總預算案他釋憲在先而且大法官已經受理了憲法法庭受理了看看我們的軍人待遇條例跟警校人員條例他什麼時候提出釋憲的\n\n19\n00:06:59,528 --> 00:07:17,666\n前幾天8月22號才送出的大法官受理了嗎沒有受理啊你們的四限案這個大法官受理了你們還是繼續執行錢都快花完了現在還要來追加預算\n\n20\n00:07:19,239 --> 00:07:36,192\n對於這個法律通過的該編的預算也不編然後竟然還說是因為現在在申請釋憲中所以呢就拒絕編列等待釋憲結果之後再行編列這種話也說得出來我真的是覺得非常的\n\n21\n00:07:37,547 --> 00:07:50,299\n感到真的不知道應該怎麼樣去批評現在的我們的總統跟院長竟然可以違法到這樣子的這個境界好那麼接下來請監察院好請兩位請回\n\n22\n00:07:59,571 --> 00:08:08,179\n今天是處長監察業務處的黃處長來監察院的職權到底是什麼您可不可以解釋一下監察院的職權\n\n23\n00:08:12,599 --> 00:08:37,209\n報告委員監察院的職權是針對公務人員的違法失職然後我們行使那個憲法賦予的權利包括彈劾糾舉然後我們並提出比較跳的報告另外公職人員財產申報處是針對好我想很重要針對公務人員以及行政機關的違法失職嘛進行彈劾及糾舉糾正對於現在我們看到的行政院\n\n24\n00:08:38,149 --> 00:09:01,386\n他不執行法律這個部分有沒有啟動調查監察院有啟動調查嗎調查權的行使是監察委員的職權他們是獨立行使職權所以到現在為止監察委員沒有一個人是有啟動調查包含這個\n\n25\n00:09:03,496 --> 00:09:24,165\n行政院他違法苛扣地方性的補助款以及他不編列之前對於公務人員加薪一直拖拖拖拖了幾個月之後才核發調整的薪水然後到現在又違法的不編列軍人和警消人員的調薪監察委員不應該啟動調查嗎我希望今天處長可以把我幾個委員的\n\n26\n00:09:34,426 --> 00:09:46,253\n這個質疑帶回去給監察委員他們是不是應該要依職權要啟動調查而不應該這麼怠惰好謝謝處長那麼接下來我要再講的就是請那個請也是請劉秘書長還有懷次長\n\n27\n00:10:01,564 --> 00:10:25,106\n今天我們其實討論考記法的問題在考記法的問題裡面其實我在這邊有幾個議題你們所提的條文的修正我大致上都同意但是還是有一些地方我不是很清楚尤其是對於我們現在知道公務人員常常可能會一次兩大過就免職但是如果說是每年他都是一大過\n\n28\n00:10:27,016 --> 00:10:32,265\n那麼連續好幾年每年都一大過現在我們有辦法去處理像這樣子的案子嗎像這樣的公務員嗎\n\n29\n00:10:34,332 --> 00:10:59,953\n跟委員報告一下因為我們烤雞的功過是以烤雞年度為主所以他去年記過一大過今年記過一大過他不會被累積起來變成兩個大過但是您剛才提到就是說比如說講的比較粗暴一點就是說可能工作爛爛的經常就粗暴這些應該是在平時成績考就要來給他執行執行包括他的年度烤雞就要一起把它\n\n30\n00:11:00,553 --> 00:11:19,982\n是的我要現在講的就是說因為其實我們看到其實很多的公共機關有反應其實他們沒辦法去處理那個他可能常常年度被打考積是平等的那沒有辦法處理那可是在你們這次修正裡面我沒有看到你們有針對類似這種常常被考列平等的人員\n\n31\n00:11:25,865 --> 00:11:48,819\n有一個更積極的一個處理的機制這個部分的話是不是可以請你們去研析就是有關於就是常常被考慮並等人員有沒有更正向的輔導改善機制好那個委員這個意見我們帶回去我們這次跟委員報告我們這次修正主要是配合這次那個保障法的修正對於霸凌性侵性騷這些整體的一個配套的一個修正在第12條部分謝謝委員指導謝謝\n\n32\n00:11:50,520 --> 00:12:05,789\n好了解然後呢另外呢就是說是談到有關於這個政務人員法制方面的這個問題喔其實呢在上次情緒部的部長施部長他說呢這個這個有關於政務人員的法制不屬於考試院的權責請問劉秘書長你們考試院的意見呢\n\n33\n00:12:11,143 --> 00:12:27,456\n各位報告這一屆考試委員沒有就這個部分做成討論那這個因為那這個事情前一屆呢前一屆沒有處理都沒有處理對12屆也沒有再前一屆也沒有那主要就是因為說如果這個事跟行政沒有共識的話其實這個法案送不出來因為他會險\n\n34\n00:12:29,073 --> 00:12:51,005\n考試院在多年前曾經有提出過政務人員法到政務人員的退府條例也是屬於你們考試院所提的退府條例比較特別只有什麼特別你按照我們的風景也是由你們處理的憲政執掌上面是有退府的所以這個部分我覺得非常重要必須要去釐清另外有關於陳菊的請假的問題她現在已經請假幾個月了\n\n35\n00:12:54,541 --> 00:13:00,305\n對這我不清楚可能要問檢測員從大概現在為止應該請假七八個月了嗎請問請問處長大概差不多八個月了吧是報告委員那個院長的請假按照那個公務人員的請假規則現在目前請假的時間的確已經超過八個月已經超過八個月了所以如果說按照我們公務人員請假規則來講的話他最長的可以請假到什麼明年到今年年底對不對\n\n36\n00:13:23,892 --> 00:13:47,997\n這個部分按照那個規則他除了士兵假休假都請完之外另外還可以請延長兵假所以呢他最常可以請到多久嘛這個部分因為這個部分是不是要請那個我要講的就是說公務人員在請假規則裡面其實非常清楚他最多可能請一年可是陳菊不一樣他也不是狹野的公務員對不對他是政務人員政務人員可以請假這麼久\n\n37\n00:13:50,818 --> 00:13:56,244\n雖然說我們不忍心看到有任何一個政務官生病請假但是他確實請假這麼長他已經也耽誤了公務公職更何況就是說我們看到有其他的一些法規如果像不管是中選會啊NCC的這些相關組織法如果說是這個委員他離病啊或生病啊等等的話其實行政院長是可以允允免職的\n\n38\n00:14:14,662 --> 00:14:38,411\n這未來的相關法制你們是不是也應該要去修正一下否則如果說我們未來的政務官長期的這樣生病他沒有辦法執行他的職務那麼其實不管社會觀感也不好而且我覺得最重要他是會影響到政務的所以這部分話也應該要去去去一併的去修法也請你們要給我一份延續報告然後最後好最後我要再講就是剛剛吳思瑤委員\n\n39\n00:14:41,417 --> 00:15:04,215\n真的叫做鬼扯一通難怪人家說他常常就是無造謠他對於法律對於憲法是一知半解所以常常就會講一些莫名其妙根本不正確的事情他剛剛講說過去在憲法大法官解釋\n\n40\n00:15:06,804 --> 00:15:33,559\n264號解釋裡面也有講到說立法院是不可以任意的提出追加預算他到底有沒有搞清楚264號解釋講的是當時是立法院做成的決議希望行政機關要求要追加預算要提高發放半個月的工作獎金這只是一個決議他不是立法院通過的法律\n\n41\n00:15:35,752 --> 00:15:54,322\n吳思瑤今天他說的剛剛講的說因為264號解釋的理由所以這次行政院跟賴清德總統認為說軍人待遇條例他是調高薪水所以不應該編列預算這樣的\n\n42\n00:15:56,863 --> 00:16:12,709\n說法是完全錯誤根本不是這麼回事這吳思瑤委員其實她雖然在立法院已經做了好幾屆的委員但是我完全看不出來她的法律素養是有進步是有漲進\n\n43\n00:16:14,059 --> 00:16:39,050\n如果說今天他要講這個事情他應該要把264號解釋好好的看清楚而不是張冠禮禮帶把根本不是這個根本不適合拿來跟這一次行政院違法不編列軍人警消這個待遇的還有退休金的這樣的一個預算的事情拿來做相比擬這是非常惡劣很惡質的所以就是不斷的這個造謠\n\n44\n00:16:41,172 --> 00:17:02,529\n我最後還要再強調就是限訴法的修正基本上它是跟很多國家的做法是相同的在我們過去大法官審理案件法裡面也是將審理的門檻做成維新派人員考它的標準是三分之二或四分之三的怎麼可以說限訴法是惡法\n\n45\n00:17:04,276 --> 00:17:24,382\n憲法法庭今天沒有辦法這個這個召開審理他的問題不在於限訴法而是在於沒有適合的大法官人選就連民進黨自己都不認同賴清德總統所提出的大法官這個候選人怎麼可以怪罪到說這個是限訴法是惡法所以我看到吳思堯委員這樣子的一個發言非常不能認同\n\n46\n00:17:35,421 --> 00:17:57,075\n我必須要再講立法委員在這個質詢台上面自己要做功課多讀書不要常常去講一些五四三這個混淆是非的一些論述這個真的是有愧於身為一個民意代表身為立法委員好以上謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n43\t1104\t好 謝謝主席在這邊首先先請國防部王副處長法律事務處軍法事務處副處長王副處長然後也請內政部的簡專委是不是簡專委\n31221\t40428\t那首先不好意思那個王副處長我想先請教在過去我在這邊想請教就是在過去這些年裡面我們國軍的待遇調整有多少次\n59810\t73876\t我們曾經有多少次調心 從105年開始到現在詳細我不知道 但是我記得好幾次好 那麼這個基本上大概我看了一些新聞從105年起 國防部的\n75140\t95918\t對於這個軍人的調薪有調整了四次核器達福大概是14%那請問因為我想您在軍中也服役很久了這個您過去有沒有印象就是軍人待遇調薪然後行政院不編預算國防部不編預算的有沒有曾經國防部不編列預算\n101263\t126452\t包委員 因為這個預算非我們本師我是法律師的法律師應該要了解相關的法制啊是 是那有關這個部分我這邊並不清楚是不是我會後那從法律的角度來說您認為我們這個立法院的法律的這個軍人待遇條例都通過了給軍人的待遇調薪尤其是家計的部分調薪那這個部分可以不執行嗎可以不編列預算嗎\n130114\t139057\t你們國防部的法律事務處在國防部不編列預算這件事情上面你們有向你們的長官表達過這可能會有違法的疑慮嗎這個部分我們部長在近日對媒體也有回答說基於行政議題的部分所以國防部都沒有向行政院表示過任何\n156178\t168104\t這個抗議或是認為說這樣子的做法是有違法疑慮的都沒有把這樣的意見告訴過行政院院長嗎這一部分我這邊並不是很清楚\n170011\t192851\t看起來現在顧立雄他就是個聽命行事的國防部部長他根本沒有把國軍弟兄放在心裡他如果說他是個愛護國軍的這個長官的話他今天就應該要在行政院會議上面或者是說他應該要向行政院長去反映怎麼可以法律通過了竟然不編列預算\n194535\t207458\t鮑委員 從我們部長一上任以來就不斷的跟我們各級的幹部來講這個一定要照顧國軍那針對國軍的各項域的待遇之災我們要聽其言 觀其行啦這個副處長您不用幫顧立雄插著抹粉他到底有沒有愛護國軍弟兄這一次的事件就清清楚楚\n216960\t233371\t他沒有編列就沒有編列甚至連向行政院院長去抗議去提出異議他都沒有嘛看起來就是這樣那請問接下來我想請問內政部的簡專委內政部部長有沒有向行政院院長提出異議\n238052\t261999\t報告委員 因為我們今天派員列席的這個部分是不清楚關於這個警校條例的相關的這個加級的問題好 我在想應該也沒有我沒有看到劉世芳 劉部長在媒體上面有說他要捍衛警校人員的權益然後向行政院長表示異議表示抗議 也沒有嘛所以呢 不管是\n263977\t278402\t這個國防部部長顧立雄或是劉士芳部長內政部部長劉士芳基本上說什麼愛軍愛警消我覺得那都是騙人的好那我現在要講的就是好請兩位先回座接下來請考試院劉秘書長或是權敘部的這個懷次長\n294564\t302636\t是 請問劉秘書長這次這個考試院針對114年考試院的預算你們有提出釋憲嗎你們當時有\n305962\t326270\t加在這個行政院的中央政府總預算裡面一起去提起釋憲嗎 考試院的部分總預算因為是這個行政院的權責考試院沒有就這個部分提出所以你 我在想可能你也不太清楚到底行政院提出的114年的總預算的釋憲裡面有沒有涵蓋你考試院的部分\n330080\t341733\t他是一整本去視線吧他就總預算視線要總預算視線就包含全國但是內容上面的部分我有沒有請你們的有知道的\n344008\t368402\t因為我沒有看過那個釋憲文所以不知道他到底提什麼釋憲所以這是很可笑的一件事情卓榮泰他提出了114年的政府總預算的釋憲案裡面可能就包含了考試院 司法院 監察院而你們卻一無所知你們根本不知道你的預算是不是已經被提起釋憲了我上次有問過司法院的副秘書長他說他不知道\n369673\t388614\t但是看起來他這整包的一起去提起釋憲還有就是說按照賴清德的邏輯說如果現在案子申請釋憲案當中就不應該執行那麼114年的中央政府總預算案是不是也應該要停止執行\n393496\t418101\t我真的很覺得有的時候看到我們的賴總統的發言卓榮泰院長的發言都讓我覺得說他們怎麼可以雙標到如此的境界114年中央政府總預算案他釋憲在先而且大法官已經受理了憲法法庭受理了看看我們的軍人待遇條例跟警校人員條例他什麼時候提出釋憲的\n419528\t437666\t前幾天8月22號才送出的大法官受理了嗎沒有受理啊你們的四限案這個大法官受理了你們還是繼續執行錢都快花完了現在還要來追加預算\n439239\t456192\t對於這個法律通過的該編的預算也不編然後竟然還說是因為現在在申請釋憲中所以呢就拒絕編列等待釋憲結果之後再行編列這種話也說得出來我真的是覺得非常的\n457547\t470299\t感到真的不知道應該怎麼樣去批評現在的我們的總統跟院長竟然可以違法到這樣子的這個境界好 那麼接下來請監察院好 請兩位請回\n479571\t488179\t今天是處長監察業務處的黃處長來監察院的職權到底是什麼您可不可以解釋一下監察院的職權\n492599\t517209\t報告委員監察院的職權是針對公務人員的違法失職然後我們行使那個憲法賦予的權利包括彈劾糾舉然後我們並提出比較跳的報告另外公職人員財產申報處是針對好 我想很重要針對公務人員以及行政機關的違法失職嘛進行彈劾及糾舉糾正對於現在我們看到的行政院\n518149\t541386\t他不執行法律這個部分有沒有啟動調查監察院有啟動調查嗎調查權的行使是監察委員的職權他們是獨立行使職權所以到現在為止監察委員沒有一個人是有啟動調查包含這個\n543496\t564165\t行政院他違法苛扣地方性的補助款以及他不編列之前對於公務人員加薪一直拖拖拖拖了幾個月之後才核發調整的薪水然後到現在又違法的不編列軍人和警消人員的調薪監察委員不應該啟動調查嗎我希望今天處長可以把我幾個委員的\n574426\t586253\t這個質疑帶回去給監察委員他們是不是應該要依職權要啟動調查而不應該這麼怠惰好謝謝處長那麼接下來我要再講的就是請那個請也是請劉秘書長還有懷次長\n601564\t625106\t今天我們其實討論考記法的問題在考記法的問題裡面其實我在這邊有幾個議題你們所提的條文的修正我大致上都同意但是還是有一些地方我不是很清楚尤其是對於我們現在知道公務人員常常可能會一次兩大過就免職但是如果說是每年他都是一大過\n627016\t632265\t那麼連續好幾年每年都一大過現在我們有辦法去處理像這樣子的案子嗎 像這樣的公務員嗎\n634332\t659953\t跟委員報告一下因為我們烤雞的功過是以烤雞年度為主所以他去年記過一大過 今年記過一大過他不會被累積起來變成兩個大過但是您剛才提到就是說比如說講的比較粗暴一點就是說可能工作爛爛的 經常就粗暴這些應該是在平時成績考就要來給他執行執行包括他的年度烤雞就要一起把它\n660553\t679982\t是的 我要現在講的就是說因為其實我們看到其實很多的公共機關有反應其實他們沒辦法去處理那個他可能常常年度被打考積是平等的那沒有辦法處理那可是在你們這次修正裡面我沒有看到你們有針對類似這種常常被考列平等的人員\n685865\t708819\t有一個更積極的一個處理的機制這個部分的話是不是可以請你們去研析就是有關於就是常常被考慮並等人員有沒有更正向的輔導改善機制好 那個委員這個意見我們帶回去我們這次跟委員報告我們這次修正主要是配合這次那個保障法的修正對於霸凌 性侵 性騷這些整體的一個配套的一個修正在第12條部分謝謝委員指導 謝謝\n710520\t725789\t好了解然後呢另外呢就是說是談到有關於這個政務人員法制方面的這個問題喔其實呢在上次情緒部的部長施部長他說呢這個這個有關於政務人員的法制不屬於考試院的權責請問劉秘書長你們考試院的意見呢\n731143\t747456\t各位報告這一屆考試委員沒有就這個部分做成討論那這個因為那這個事情前一屆呢前一屆沒有處理都沒有處理對12屆也沒有再前一屆也沒有那主要就是因為說如果這個事跟行政沒有共識的話其實這個法案送不出來因為他會險\n749073\t771005\t考試院在多年前曾經有提出過政務人員法到政務人員的退府條例也是屬於你們考試院所提的退府條例比較特別只有什麼特別你按照我們的風景也是由你們處理的憲政執掌上面是有退府的所以這個部分我覺得非常重要必須要去釐清另外有關於陳菊的請假的問題她現在已經請假幾個月了\n774541\t780305\t對 這我不清楚 可能要問檢測員從大概現在為止應該請假七八個月了嗎請問 請問處長大概差不多八個月了吧是 報告委員那個院長的請假按照那個公務人員的請假規則現在目前請假的時間的確已經超過八個月已經超過八個月了所以如果說按照我們公務人員請假規則來講的話他最長的可以請假到什麼 明年到今年年底 對不對\n803892\t827997\t這個部分按照那個規則他除了士兵假休假都請完之外另外還可以請延長兵假所以呢他最常可以請到多久嘛這個部分因為這個部分是不是要請那個我要講的就是說公務人員在請假規則裡面其實非常清楚他最多可能請一年可是陳菊不一樣他也不是狹野的公務員對不對他是政務人員政務人員可以請假這麼久\n830818\t836244\t雖然說我們不忍心看到有任何一個政務官生病請假但是他確實請假這麼長他已經也耽誤了公務公職更何況就是說我們看到有其他的一些法規如果像不管是中選會啊NCC的這些相關組織法如果說是這個委員他離病啊或生病啊等等的話其實行政院長是可以允允免職的\n854662\t878411\t這未來的相關法制你們是不是也應該要去修正一下否則如果說我們未來的政務官長期的這樣生病他沒有辦法執行他的職務那麼其實不管社會觀感也不好而且我覺得最重要他是會影響到政務的所以這部分話也應該要去去去一併的去修法也請你們要給我一份延續報告然後最後好最後我要再講就是剛剛吳思瑤委員\n881417\t904215\t真的叫做鬼扯一通難怪人家說他常常就是無造謠他對於法律對於憲法是一知半解所以常常就會講一些莫名其妙根本不正確的事情他剛剛講說過去在憲法大法官解釋\n906804\t933559\t264號解釋裡面也有講到說立法院是不可以任意的提出追加預算他到底有沒有搞清楚264號解釋講的是當時是立法院做成的決議希望行政機關要求要追加預算要提高發放半個月的工作獎金這只是一個決議他不是立法院通過的法律\n935752\t954322\t吳思瑤今天他說的剛剛講的說因為264號解釋的理由所以這次行政院跟賴清德總統認為說軍人待遇條例他是調高薪水所以不應該編列預算這樣的\n956863\t972709\t說法是完全錯誤根本不是這麼回事這吳思瑤委員其實她雖然在立法院已經做了好幾屆的委員但是我完全看不出來她的法律素養是有進步是有漲進\n974059\t999050\t如果說今天他要講這個事情他應該要把264號解釋好好的看清楚而不是張冠禮禮帶把根本不是這個根本不適合拿來跟這一次行政院違法不編列軍人警消這個待遇的還有退休金的這樣的一個預算的事情拿來做相比擬這是非常惡劣很惡質的所以就是不斷的這個造謠\n1001172\t1022529\t我最後還要再強調就是限訴法的修正基本上它是跟很多國家的做法是相同的在我們過去大法官審理案件法裡面也是將審理的門檻做成維新派人員考它的標準是三分之二或四分之三的怎麼可以說限訴法是惡法\n1024276\t1044382\t憲法法庭今天沒有辦法這個這個召開審理他的問題不在於限訴法而是在於沒有適合的大法官人選就連民進黨自己都不認同賴清德總統所提出的大法官這個候選人怎麼可以怪罪到說這個是限訴法是惡法所以我看到吳思堯委員這樣子的一個發言非常不能認同\n1055421\t1077075\t我必須要再講立法委員在這個質詢台上面自己要做功課多讀書不要常常去講一些五四三這個混淆是非的一些論述這個真的是有愧於身為一個民意代表身為立法委員好 以上謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席在這邊首先先請國防部王副處長法律事務處軍法事務處副處長王副處長然後也請內政部的簡專委是不是簡專委\n那首先不好意思那個王副處長我想先請教在過去我在這邊想請教就是在過去這些年裡面我們國軍的待遇調整有多少次\n我們曾經有多少次調心 從105年開始到現在詳細我不知道 但是我記得好幾次好 那麼這個基本上大概我看了一些新聞從105年起 國防部的\n對於這個軍人的調薪有調整了四次核器達福大概是14%那請問因為我想您在軍中也服役很久了這個您過去有沒有印象就是軍人待遇調薪然後行政院不編預算國防部不編預算的有沒有曾經國防部不編列預算\n包委員 因為這個預算非我們本師我是法律師的法律師應該要了解相關的法制啊是 是那有關這個部分我這邊並不清楚是不是我會後那從法律的角度來說您認為我們這個立法院的法律的這個軍人待遇條例都通過了給軍人的待遇調薪尤其是家計的部分調薪那這個部分可以不執行嗎可以不編列預算嗎\n你們國防部的法律事務處在國防部不編列預算這件事情上面你們有向你們的長官表達過這可能會有違法的疑慮嗎這個部分我們部長在近日對媒體也有回答說基於行政議題的部分所以國防部都沒有向行政院表示過任何\n這個抗議或是認為說這樣子的做法是有違法疑慮的都沒有把這樣的意見告訴過行政院院長嗎這一部分我這邊並不是很清楚\n看起來現在顧立雄他就是個聽命行事的國防部部長他根本沒有把國軍弟兄放在心裡他如果說他是個愛護國軍的這個長官的話他今天就應該要在行政院會議上面或者是說他應該要向行政院長去反映怎麼可以法律通過了竟然不編列預算\n鮑委員 從我們部長一上任以來就不斷的跟我們各級的幹部來講這個一定要照顧國軍那針對國軍的各項域的待遇之災我們要聽其言 觀其行啦這個副處長您不用幫顧立雄插著抹粉他到底有沒有愛護國軍弟兄這一次的事件就清清楚楚\n他沒有編列就沒有編列甚至連向行政院院長去抗議去提出異議他都沒有嘛看起來就是這樣那請問接下來我想請問內政部的簡專委內政部部長有沒有向行政院院長提出異議\n報告委員 因為我們今天派員列席的這個部分是不清楚關於這個警校條例的相關的這個加級的問題好 我在想應該也沒有我沒有看到劉世芳 劉部長在媒體上面有說他要捍衛警校人員的權益然後向行政院長表示異議表示抗議 也沒有嘛所以呢 不管是\n這個國防部部長顧立雄或是劉士芳部長內政部部長劉士芳基本上說什麼愛軍愛警消我覺得那都是騙人的好那我現在要講的就是好請兩位先回座接下來請考試院劉秘書長或是權敘部的這個懷次長\n是 請問劉秘書長這次這個考試院針對114年考試院的預算你們有提出釋憲嗎你們當時有\n加在這個行政院的中央政府總預算裡面一起去提起釋憲嗎 考試院的部分總預算因為是這個行政院的權責考試院沒有就這個部分提出所以你 我在想可能你也不太清楚到底行政院提出的114年的總預算的釋憲裡面有沒有涵蓋你考試院的部分\n他是一整本去視線吧他就總預算視線要總預算視線就包含全國但是內容上面的部分我有沒有請你們的有知道的\n因為我沒有看過那個釋憲文所以不知道他到底提什麼釋憲所以這是很可笑的一件事情卓榮泰他提出了114年的政府總預算的釋憲案裡面可能就包含了考試院 司法院 監察院而你們卻一無所知你們根本不知道你的預算是不是已經被提起釋憲了我上次有問過司法院的副秘書長他說他不知道\n但是看起來他這整包的一起去提起釋憲還有就是說按照賴清德的邏輯說如果現在案子申請釋憲案當中就不應該執行那麼114年的中央政府總預算案是不是也應該要停止執行\n我真的很覺得有的時候看到我們的賴總統的發言卓榮泰院長的發言都讓我覺得說他們怎麼可以雙標到如此的境界114年中央政府總預算案他釋憲在先而且大法官已經受理了憲法法庭受理了看看我們的軍人待遇條例跟警校人員條例他什麼時候提出釋憲的\n前幾天8月22號才送出的大法官受理了嗎沒有受理啊你們的四限案這個大法官受理了你們還是繼續執行錢都快花完了現在還要來追加預算\n對於這個法律通過的該編的預算也不編然後竟然還說是因為現在在申請釋憲中所以呢就拒絕編列等待釋憲結果之後再行編列這種話也說得出來我真的是覺得非常的\n感到真的不知道應該怎麼樣去批評現在的我們的總統跟院長竟然可以違法到這樣子的這個境界好 那麼接下來請監察院好 請兩位請回\n今天是處長監察業務處的黃處長來監察院的職權到底是什麼您可不可以解釋一下監察院的職權\n報告委員監察院的職權是針對公務人員的違法失職然後我們行使那個憲法賦予的權利包括彈劾糾舉然後我們並提出比較跳的報告另外公職人員財產申報處是針對好 我想很重要針對公務人員以及行政機關的違法失職嘛進行彈劾及糾舉糾正對於現在我們看到的行政院\n他不執行法律這個部分有沒有啟動調查監察院有啟動調查嗎調查權的行使是監察委員的職權他們是獨立行使職權所以到現在為止監察委員沒有一個人是有啟動調查包含這個\n行政院他違法苛扣地方性的補助款以及他不編列之前對於公務人員加薪一直拖拖拖拖了幾個月之後才核發調整的薪水然後到現在又違法的不編列軍人和警消人員的調薪監察委員不應該啟動調查嗎我希望今天處長可以把我幾個委員的\n這個質疑帶回去給監察委員他們是不是應該要依職權要啟動調查而不應該這麼怠惰好謝謝處長那麼接下來我要再講的就是請那個請也是請劉秘書長還有懷次長\n今天我們其實討論考記法的問題在考記法的問題裡面其實我在這邊有幾個議題你們所提的條文的修正我大致上都同意但是還是有一些地方我不是很清楚尤其是對於我們現在知道公務人員常常可能會一次兩大過就免職但是如果說是每年他都是一大過\n那麼連續好幾年每年都一大過現在我們有辦法去處理像這樣子的案子嗎 像這樣的公務員嗎\n跟委員報告一下因為我們烤雞的功過是以烤雞年度為主所以他去年記過一大過 今年記過一大過他不會被累積起來變成兩個大過但是您剛才提到就是說比如說講的比較粗暴一點就是說可能工作爛爛的 經常就粗暴這些應該是在平時成績考就要來給他執行執行包括他的年度烤雞就要一起把它\n是的 我要現在講的就是說因為其實我們看到其實很多的公共機關有反應其實他們沒辦法去處理那個他可能常常年度被打考積是平等的那沒有辦法處理那可是在你們這次修正裡面我沒有看到你們有針對類似這種常常被考列平等的人員\n有一個更積極的一個處理的機制這個部分的話是不是可以請你們去研析就是有關於就是常常被考慮並等人員有沒有更正向的輔導改善機制好 那個委員這個意見我們帶回去我們這次跟委員報告我們這次修正主要是配合這次那個保障法的修正對於霸凌 性侵 性騷這些整體的一個配套的一個修正在第12條部分謝謝委員指導 謝謝\n好了解然後呢另外呢就是說是談到有關於這個政務人員法制方面的這個問題喔其實呢在上次情緒部的部長施部長他說呢這個這個有關於政務人員的法制不屬於考試院的權責請問劉秘書長你們考試院的意見呢\n各位報告這一屆考試委員沒有就這個部分做成討論那這個因為那這個事情前一屆呢前一屆沒有處理都沒有處理對12屆也沒有再前一屆也沒有那主要就是因為說如果這個事跟行政沒有共識的話其實這個法案送不出來因為他會險\n考試院在多年前曾經有提出過政務人員法到政務人員的退府條例也是屬於你們考試院所提的退府條例比較特別只有什麼特別你按照我們的風景也是由你們處理的憲政執掌上面是有退府的所以這個部分我覺得非常重要必須要去釐清另外有關於陳菊的請假的問題她現在已經請假幾個月了\n對 這我不清楚 可能要問檢測員從大概現在為止應該請假七八個月了嗎請問 請問處長大概差不多八個月了吧是 報告委員那個院長的請假按照那個公務人員的請假規則現在目前請假的時間的確已經超過八個月已經超過八個月了所以如果說按照我們公務人員請假規則來講的話他最長的可以請假到什麼 明年到今年年底 對不對\n這個部分按照那個規則他除了士兵假休假都請完之外另外還可以請延長兵假所以呢他最常可以請到多久嘛這個部分因為這個部分是不是要請那個我要講的就是說公務人員在請假規則裡面其實非常清楚他最多可能請一年可是陳菊不一樣他也不是狹野的公務員對不對他是政務人員政務人員可以請假這麼久\n雖然說我們不忍心看到有任何一個政務官生病請假但是他確實請假這麼長他已經也耽誤了公務公職更何況就是說我們看到有其他的一些法規如果像不管是中選會啊NCC的這些相關組織法如果說是這個委員他離病啊或生病啊等等的話其實行政院長是可以允允免職的\n這未來的相關法制你們是不是也應該要去修正一下否則如果說我們未來的政務官長期的這樣生病他沒有辦法執行他的職務那麼其實不管社會觀感也不好而且我覺得最重要他是會影響到政務的所以這部分話也應該要去去去一併的去修法也請你們要給我一份延續報告然後最後好最後我要再講就是剛剛吳思瑤委員\n真的叫做鬼扯一通難怪人家說他常常就是無造謠他對於法律對於憲法是一知半解所以常常就會講一些莫名其妙根本不正確的事情他剛剛講說過去在憲法大法官解釋\n264號解釋裡面也有講到說立法院是不可以任意的提出追加預算他到底有沒有搞清楚264號解釋講的是當時是立法院做成的決議希望行政機關要求要追加預算要提高發放半個月的工作獎金這只是一個決議他不是立法院通過的法律\n吳思瑤今天他說的剛剛講的說因為264號解釋的理由所以這次行政院跟賴清德總統認為說軍人待遇條例他是調高薪水所以不應該編列預算這樣的\n說法是完全錯誤根本不是這麼回事這吳思瑤委員其實她雖然在立法院已經做了好幾屆的委員但是我完全看不出來她的法律素養是有進步是有漲進\n如果說今天他要講這個事情他應該要把264號解釋好好的看清楚而不是張冠禮禮帶把根本不是這個根本不適合拿來跟這一次行政院違法不編列軍人警消這個待遇的還有退休金的這樣的一個預算的事情拿來做相比擬這是非常惡劣很惡質的所以就是不斷的這個造謠\n我最後還要再強調就是限訴法的修正基本上它是跟很多國家的做法是相同的在我們過去大法官審理案件法裡面也是將審理的門檻做成維新派人員考它的標準是三分之二或四分之三的怎麼可以說限訴法是惡法\n憲法法庭今天沒有辦法這個這個召開審理他的問題不在於限訴法而是在於沒有適合的大法官人選就連民進黨自己都不認同賴清德總統所提出的大法官這個候選人怎麼可以怪罪到說這個是限訴法是惡法所以我看到吳思堯委員這樣子的一個發言非常不能認同\n我必須要再講立法委員在這個質詢台上面自己要做功課多讀書不要常常去講一些五四三這個混淆是非的一些論述這個真的是有愧於身為一個民意代表身為立法委員好 以上謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.043 --> 00:01.104\n好謝謝主席在這邊首先先請國防部王副處長法律事務處軍法事務處副處長王副處長然後也請內政部的簡專委是不是簡專委\n\n00:31.221 --> 00:40.428\n那首先不好意思那個王副處長我想先請教在過去我在這邊想請教就是在過去這些年裡面我們國軍的待遇調整有多少次\n\n00:59.810 --> 01:13.876\n我們曾經有多少次調心從105年開始到現在詳細我不知道但是我記得好幾次好那麼這個基本上大概我看了一些新聞從105年起國防部的\n\n01:15.140 --> 01:35.918\n對於這個軍人的調薪有調整了四次核器達福大概是14%那請問因為我想您在軍中也服役很久了這個您過去有沒有印象就是軍人待遇調薪然後行政院不編預算國防部不編預算的有沒有曾經國防部不編列預算\n\n01:41.263 --> 02:06.452\n包委員因為這個預算非我們本師我是法律師的法律師應該要了解相關的法制啊是是那有關這個部分我這邊並不清楚是不是我會後那從法律的角度來說您認為我們這個立法院的法律的這個軍人待遇條例都通過了給軍人的待遇調薪尤其是家計的部分調薪那這個部分可以不執行嗎可以不編列預算嗎\n\n02:10.114 --> 02:19.057\n你們國防部的法律事務處在國防部不編列預算這件事情上面你們有向你們的長官表達過這可能會有違法的疑慮嗎這個部分我們部長在近日對媒體也有回答說基於行政議題的部分所以國防部都沒有向行政院表示過任何\n\n02:36.178 --> 02:48.104\n這個抗議或是認為說這樣子的做法是有違法疑慮的都沒有把這樣的意見告訴過行政院院長嗎這一部分我這邊並不是很清楚\n\n02:50.011 --> 03:12.851\n看起來現在顧立雄他就是個聽命行事的國防部部長他根本沒有把國軍弟兄放在心裡他如果說他是個愛護國軍的這個長官的話他今天就應該要在行政院會議上面或者是說他應該要向行政院長去反映怎麼可以法律通過了竟然不編列預算\n\n03:14.535 --> 03:27.458\n鮑委員從我們部長一上任以來就不斷的跟我們各級的幹部來講這個一定要照顧國軍那針對國軍的各項域的待遇之災我們要聽其言觀其行啦這個副處長您不用幫顧立雄插著抹粉他到底有沒有愛護國軍弟兄這一次的事件就清清楚楚\n\n03:36.960 --> 03:53.371\n他沒有編列就沒有編列甚至連向行政院院長去抗議去提出異議他都沒有嘛看起來就是這樣那請問接下來我想請問內政部的簡專委內政部部長有沒有向行政院院長提出異議\n\n03:58.052 --> 04:21.999\n報告委員因為我們今天派員列席的這個部分是不清楚關於這個警校條例的相關的這個加級的問題好我在想應該也沒有我沒有看到劉世芳劉部長在媒體上面有說他要捍衛警校人員的權益然後向行政院長表示異議表示抗議也沒有嘛所以呢不管是\n\n04:23.977 --> 04:38.402\n這個國防部部長顧立雄或是劉士芳部長內政部部長劉士芳基本上說什麼愛軍愛警消我覺得那都是騙人的好那我現在要講的就是好請兩位先回座接下來請考試院劉秘書長或是權敘部的這個懷次長\n\n04:54.564 --> 05:02.636\n是請問劉秘書長這次這個考試院針對114年考試院的預算你們有提出釋憲嗎你們當時有\n\n05:05.962 --> 05:26.270\n加在這個行政院的中央政府總預算裡面一起去提起釋憲嗎考試院的部分總預算因為是這個行政院的權責考試院沒有就這個部分提出所以你我在想可能你也不太清楚到底行政院提出的114年的總預算的釋憲裡面有沒有涵蓋你考試院的部分\n\n05:30.080 --> 05:41.733\n他是一整本去視線吧他就總預算視線要總預算視線就包含全國但是內容上面的部分我有沒有請你們的有知道的\n\n05:44.008 --> 06:08.402\n因為我沒有看過那個釋憲文所以不知道他到底提什麼釋憲所以這是很可笑的一件事情卓榮泰他提出了114年的政府總預算的釋憲案裡面可能就包含了考試院司法院監察院而你們卻一無所知你們根本不知道你的預算是不是已經被提起釋憲了我上次有問過司法院的副秘書長他說他不知道\n\n06:09.673 --> 06:28.614\n但是看起來他這整包的一起去提起釋憲還有就是說按照賴清德的邏輯說如果現在案子申請釋憲案當中就不應該執行那麼114年的中央政府總預算案是不是也應該要停止執行\n\n06:33.496 --> 06:58.101\n我真的很覺得有的時候看到我們的賴總統的發言卓榮泰院長的發言都讓我覺得說他們怎麼可以雙標到如此的境界114年中央政府總預算案他釋憲在先而且大法官已經受理了憲法法庭受理了看看我們的軍人待遇條例跟警校人員條例他什麼時候提出釋憲的\n\n06:59.528 --> 07:17.666\n前幾天8月22號才送出的大法官受理了嗎沒有受理啊你們的四限案這個大法官受理了你們還是繼續執行錢都快花完了現在還要來追加預算\n\n07:19.239 --> 07:36.192\n對於這個法律通過的該編的預算也不編然後竟然還說是因為現在在申請釋憲中所以呢就拒絕編列等待釋憲結果之後再行編列這種話也說得出來我真的是覺得非常的\n\n07:37.547 --> 07:50.299\n感到真的不知道應該怎麼樣去批評現在的我們的總統跟院長竟然可以違法到這樣子的這個境界好那麼接下來請監察院好請兩位請回\n\n07:59.571 --> 08:08.179\n今天是處長監察業務處的黃處長來監察院的職權到底是什麼您可不可以解釋一下監察院的職權\n\n08:12.599 --> 08:37.209\n報告委員監察院的職權是針對公務人員的違法失職然後我們行使那個憲法賦予的權利包括彈劾糾舉然後我們並提出比較跳的報告另外公職人員財產申報處是針對好我想很重要針對公務人員以及行政機關的違法失職嘛進行彈劾及糾舉糾正對於現在我們看到的行政院\n\n08:38.149 --> 09:01.386\n他不執行法律這個部分有沒有啟動調查監察院有啟動調查嗎調查權的行使是監察委員的職權他們是獨立行使職權所以到現在為止監察委員沒有一個人是有啟動調查包含這個\n\n09:03.496 --> 09:24.165\n行政院他違法苛扣地方性的補助款以及他不編列之前對於公務人員加薪一直拖拖拖拖了幾個月之後才核發調整的薪水然後到現在又違法的不編列軍人和警消人員的調薪監察委員不應該啟動調查嗎我希望今天處長可以把我幾個委員的\n\n09:34.426 --> 09:46.253\n這個質疑帶回去給監察委員他們是不是應該要依職權要啟動調查而不應該這麼怠惰好謝謝處長那麼接下來我要再講的就是請那個請也是請劉秘書長還有懷次長\n\n10:01.564 --> 10:25.106\n今天我們其實討論考記法的問題在考記法的問題裡面其實我在這邊有幾個議題你們所提的條文的修正我大致上都同意但是還是有一些地方我不是很清楚尤其是對於我們現在知道公務人員常常可能會一次兩大過就免職但是如果說是每年他都是一大過\n\n10:27.016 --> 10:32.265\n那麼連續好幾年每年都一大過現在我們有辦法去處理像這樣子的案子嗎像這樣的公務員嗎\n\n10:34.332 --> 10:59.953\n跟委員報告一下因為我們烤雞的功過是以烤雞年度為主所以他去年記過一大過今年記過一大過他不會被累積起來變成兩個大過但是您剛才提到就是說比如說講的比較粗暴一點就是說可能工作爛爛的經常就粗暴這些應該是在平時成績考就要來給他執行執行包括他的年度烤雞就要一起把它\n\n11:00.553 --> 11:19.982\n是的我要現在講的就是說因為其實我們看到其實很多的公共機關有反應其實他們沒辦法去處理那個他可能常常年度被打考積是平等的那沒有辦法處理那可是在你們這次修正裡面我沒有看到你們有針對類似這種常常被考列平等的人員\n\n11:25.865 --> 11:48.819\n有一個更積極的一個處理的機制這個部分的話是不是可以請你們去研析就是有關於就是常常被考慮並等人員有沒有更正向的輔導改善機制好那個委員這個意見我們帶回去我們這次跟委員報告我們這次修正主要是配合這次那個保障法的修正對於霸凌性侵性騷這些整體的一個配套的一個修正在第12條部分謝謝委員指導謝謝\n\n11:50.520 --> 12:05.789\n好了解然後呢另外呢就是說是談到有關於這個政務人員法制方面的這個問題喔其實呢在上次情緒部的部長施部長他說呢這個這個有關於政務人員的法制不屬於考試院的權責請問劉秘書長你們考試院的意見呢\n\n12:11.143 --> 12:27.456\n各位報告這一屆考試委員沒有就這個部分做成討論那這個因為那這個事情前一屆呢前一屆沒有處理都沒有處理對12屆也沒有再前一屆也沒有那主要就是因為說如果這個事跟行政沒有共識的話其實這個法案送不出來因為他會險\n\n12:29.073 --> 12:51.005\n考試院在多年前曾經有提出過政務人員法到政務人員的退府條例也是屬於你們考試院所提的退府條例比較特別只有什麼特別你按照我們的風景也是由你們處理的憲政執掌上面是有退府的所以這個部分我覺得非常重要必須要去釐清另外有關於陳菊的請假的問題她現在已經請假幾個月了\n\n12:54.541 --> 13:00.305\n對這我不清楚可能要問檢測員從大概現在為止應該請假七八個月了嗎請問請問處長大概差不多八個月了吧是報告委員那個院長的請假按照那個公務人員的請假規則現在目前請假的時間的確已經超過八個月已經超過八個月了所以如果說按照我們公務人員請假規則來講的話他最長的可以請假到什麼明年到今年年底對不對\n\n13:23.892 --> 13:47.997\n這個部分按照那個規則他除了士兵假休假都請完之外另外還可以請延長兵假所以呢他最常可以請到多久嘛這個部分因為這個部分是不是要請那個我要講的就是說公務人員在請假規則裡面其實非常清楚他最多可能請一年可是陳菊不一樣他也不是狹野的公務員對不對他是政務人員政務人員可以請假這麼久\n\n13:50.818 --> 13:56.244\n雖然說我們不忍心看到有任何一個政務官生病請假但是他確實請假這麼長他已經也耽誤了公務公職更何況就是說我們看到有其他的一些法規如果像不管是中選會啊NCC的這些相關組織法如果說是這個委員他離病啊或生病啊等等的話其實行政院長是可以允允免職的\n\n14:14.662 --> 14:38.411\n這未來的相關法制你們是不是也應該要去修正一下否則如果說我們未來的政務官長期的這樣生病他沒有辦法執行他的職務那麼其實不管社會觀感也不好而且我覺得最重要他是會影響到政務的所以這部分話也應該要去去去一併的去修法也請你們要給我一份延續報告然後最後好最後我要再講就是剛剛吳思瑤委員\n\n14:41.417 --> 15:04.215\n真的叫做鬼扯一通難怪人家說他常常就是無造謠他對於法律對於憲法是一知半解所以常常就會講一些莫名其妙根本不正確的事情他剛剛講說過去在憲法大法官解釋\n\n15:06.804 --> 15:33.559\n264號解釋裡面也有講到說立法院是不可以任意的提出追加預算他到底有沒有搞清楚264號解釋講的是當時是立法院做成的決議希望行政機關要求要追加預算要提高發放半個月的工作獎金這只是一個決議他不是立法院通過的法律\n\n15:35.752 --> 15:54.322\n吳思瑤今天他說的剛剛講的說因為264號解釋的理由所以這次行政院跟賴清德總統認為說軍人待遇條例他是調高薪水所以不應該編列預算這樣的\n\n15:56.863 --> 16:12.709\n說法是完全錯誤根本不是這麼回事這吳思瑤委員其實她雖然在立法院已經做了好幾屆的委員但是我完全看不出來她的法律素養是有進步是有漲進\n\n16:14.059 --> 16:39.050\n如果說今天他要講這個事情他應該要把264號解釋好好的看清楚而不是張冠禮禮帶把根本不是這個根本不適合拿來跟這一次行政院違法不編列軍人警消這個待遇的還有退休金的這樣的一個預算的事情拿來做相比擬這是非常惡劣很惡質的所以就是不斷的這個造謠\n\n16:41.172 --> 17:02.529\n我最後還要再強調就是限訴法的修正基本上它是跟很多國家的做法是相同的在我們過去大法官審理案件法裡面也是將審理的門檻做成維新派人員考它的標準是三分之二或四分之三的怎麼可以說限訴法是惡法\n\n17:04.276 --> 17:24.382\n憲法法庭今天沒有辦法這個這個召開審理他的問題不在於限訴法而是在於沒有適合的大法官人選就連民進黨自己都不認同賴清德總統所提出的大法官這個候選人怎麼可以怪罪到說這個是限訴法是惡法所以我看到吳思堯委員這樣子的一個發言非常不能認同\n\n17:35.421 --> 17:57.075\n我必須要再講立法委員在這個質詢台上面自己要做功課多讀書不要常常去講一些五四三這個混淆是非的一些論述這個真的是有愧於身為一個民意代表身為立法委員好以上謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.043,"end":1.104,"text":"好 謝謝主席在這邊首先先請國防部王副處長法律事務處軍法事務處副處長王副處長然後也請內政部的簡專委是不是簡專委"},{"start":31.221,"end":40.428,"text":"那首先不好意思那個王副處長我想先請教在過去我在這邊想請教就是在過去這些年裡面我們國軍的待遇調整有多少次"},{"start":59.81,"end":73.876,"text":"我們曾經有多少次調心 從105年開始到現在詳細我不知道 但是我記得好幾次好 那麼這個基本上大概我看了一些新聞從105年起 國防部的"},{"start":75.14,"end":95.918,"text":"對於這個軍人的調薪有調整了四次核器達福大概是14%那請問因為我想您在軍中也服役很久了這個您過去有沒有印象就是軍人待遇調薪然後行政院不編預算國防部不編預算的有沒有曾經國防部不編列預算"},{"start":101.263,"end":126.452,"text":"包委員 因為這個預算非我們本師我是法律師的法律師應該要了解相關的法制啊是 是那有關這個部分我這邊並不清楚是不是我會後那從法律的角度來說您認為我們這個立法院的法律的這個軍人待遇條例都通過了給軍人的待遇調薪尤其是家計的部分調薪那這個部分可以不執行嗎可以不編列預算嗎"},{"start":130.114,"end":139.057,"text":"你們國防部的法律事務處在國防部不編列預算這件事情上面你們有向你們的長官表達過這可能會有違法的疑慮嗎這個部分我們部長在近日對媒體也有回答說基於行政議題的部分所以國防部都沒有向行政院表示過任何"},{"start":156.178,"end":168.104,"text":"這個抗議或是認為說這樣子的做法是有違法疑慮的都沒有把這樣的意見告訴過行政院院長嗎這一部分我這邊並不是很清楚"},{"start":170.011,"end":192.851,"text":"看起來現在顧立雄他就是個聽命行事的國防部部長他根本沒有把國軍弟兄放在心裡他如果說他是個愛護國軍的這個長官的話他今天就應該要在行政院會議上面或者是說他應該要向行政院長去反映怎麼可以法律通過了竟然不編列預算"},{"start":194.535,"end":207.458,"text":"鮑委員 從我們部長一上任以來就不斷的跟我們各級的幹部來講這個一定要照顧國軍那針對國軍的各項域的待遇之災我們要聽其言 觀其行啦這個副處長您不用幫顧立雄插著抹粉他到底有沒有愛護國軍弟兄這一次的事件就清清楚楚"},{"start":216.96,"end":233.371,"text":"他沒有編列就沒有編列甚至連向行政院院長去抗議去提出異議他都沒有嘛看起來就是這樣那請問接下來我想請問內政部的簡專委內政部部長有沒有向行政院院長提出異議"},{"start":238.052,"end":261.999,"text":"報告委員 因為我們今天派員列席的這個部分是不清楚關於這個警校條例的相關的這個加級的問題好 我在想應該也沒有我沒有看到劉世芳 劉部長在媒體上面有說他要捍衛警校人員的權益然後向行政院長表示異議表示抗議 也沒有嘛所以呢 不管是"},{"start":263.977,"end":278.402,"text":"這個國防部部長顧立雄或是劉士芳部長內政部部長劉士芳基本上說什麼愛軍愛警消我覺得那都是騙人的好那我現在要講的就是好請兩位先回座接下來請考試院劉秘書長或是權敘部的這個懷次長"},{"start":294.564,"end":302.636,"text":"是 請問劉秘書長這次這個考試院針對114年考試院的預算你們有提出釋憲嗎你們當時有"},{"start":305.962,"end":326.27,"text":"加在這個行政院的中央政府總預算裡面一起去提起釋憲嗎 考試院的部分總預算因為是這個行政院的權責考試院沒有就這個部分提出所以你 我在想可能你也不太清楚到底行政院提出的114年的總預算的釋憲裡面有沒有涵蓋你考試院的部分"},{"start":330.08,"end":341.733,"text":"他是一整本去視線吧他就總預算視線要總預算視線就包含全國但是內容上面的部分我有沒有請你們的有知道的"},{"start":344.008,"end":368.402,"text":"因為我沒有看過那個釋憲文所以不知道他到底提什麼釋憲所以這是很可笑的一件事情卓榮泰他提出了114年的政府總預算的釋憲案裡面可能就包含了考試院 司法院 監察院而你們卻一無所知你們根本不知道你的預算是不是已經被提起釋憲了我上次有問過司法院的副秘書長他說他不知道"},{"start":369.673,"end":388.614,"text":"但是看起來他這整包的一起去提起釋憲還有就是說按照賴清德的邏輯說如果現在案子申請釋憲案當中就不應該執行那麼114年的中央政府總預算案是不是也應該要停止執行"},{"start":393.496,"end":418.101,"text":"我真的很覺得有的時候看到我們的賴總統的發言卓榮泰院長的發言都讓我覺得說他們怎麼可以雙標到如此的境界114年中央政府總預算案他釋憲在先而且大法官已經受理了憲法法庭受理了看看我們的軍人待遇條例跟警校人員條例他什麼時候提出釋憲的"},{"start":419.528,"end":437.666,"text":"前幾天8月22號才送出的大法官受理了嗎沒有受理啊你們的四限案這個大法官受理了你們還是繼續執行錢都快花完了現在還要來追加預算"},{"start":439.239,"end":456.192,"text":"對於這個法律通過的該編的預算也不編然後竟然還說是因為現在在申請釋憲中所以呢就拒絕編列等待釋憲結果之後再行編列這種話也說得出來我真的是覺得非常的"},{"start":457.547,"end":470.299,"text":"感到真的不知道應該怎麼樣去批評現在的我們的總統跟院長竟然可以違法到這樣子的這個境界好 那麼接下來請監察院好 請兩位請回"},{"start":479.571,"end":488.179,"text":"今天是處長監察業務處的黃處長來監察院的職權到底是什麼您可不可以解釋一下監察院的職權"},{"start":492.599,"end":517.209,"text":"報告委員監察院的職權是針對公務人員的違法失職然後我們行使那個憲法賦予的權利包括彈劾糾舉然後我們並提出比較跳的報告另外公職人員財產申報處是針對好 我想很重要針對公務人員以及行政機關的違法失職嘛進行彈劾及糾舉糾正對於現在我們看到的行政院"},{"start":518.149,"end":541.386,"text":"他不執行法律這個部分有沒有啟動調查監察院有啟動調查嗎調查權的行使是監察委員的職權他們是獨立行使職權所以到現在為止監察委員沒有一個人是有啟動調查包含這個"},{"start":543.496,"end":564.165,"text":"行政院他違法苛扣地方性的補助款以及他不編列之前對於公務人員加薪一直拖拖拖拖了幾個月之後才核發調整的薪水然後到現在又違法的不編列軍人和警消人員的調薪監察委員不應該啟動調查嗎我希望今天處長可以把我幾個委員的"},{"start":574.426,"end":586.253,"text":"這個質疑帶回去給監察委員他們是不是應該要依職權要啟動調查而不應該這麼怠惰好謝謝處長那麼接下來我要再講的就是請那個請也是請劉秘書長還有懷次長"},{"start":601.564,"end":625.106,"text":"今天我們其實討論考記法的問題在考記法的問題裡面其實我在這邊有幾個議題你們所提的條文的修正我大致上都同意但是還是有一些地方我不是很清楚尤其是對於我們現在知道公務人員常常可能會一次兩大過就免職但是如果說是每年他都是一大過"},{"start":627.016,"end":632.265,"text":"那麼連續好幾年每年都一大過現在我們有辦法去處理像這樣子的案子嗎 像這樣的公務員嗎"},{"start":634.332,"end":659.953,"text":"跟委員報告一下因為我們烤雞的功過是以烤雞年度為主所以他去年記過一大過 今年記過一大過他不會被累積起來變成兩個大過但是您剛才提到就是說比如說講的比較粗暴一點就是說可能工作爛爛的 經常就粗暴這些應該是在平時成績考就要來給他執行執行包括他的年度烤雞就要一起把它"},{"start":660.553,"end":679.982,"text":"是的 我要現在講的就是說因為其實我們看到其實很多的公共機關有反應其實他們沒辦法去處理那個他可能常常年度被打考積是平等的那沒有辦法處理那可是在你們這次修正裡面我沒有看到你們有針對類似這種常常被考列平等的人員"},{"start":685.865,"end":708.819,"text":"有一個更積極的一個處理的機制這個部分的話是不是可以請你們去研析就是有關於就是常常被考慮並等人員有沒有更正向的輔導改善機制好 那個委員這個意見我們帶回去我們這次跟委員報告我們這次修正主要是配合這次那個保障法的修正對於霸凌 性侵 性騷這些整體的一個配套的一個修正在第12條部分謝謝委員指導 謝謝"},{"start":710.52,"end":725.789,"text":"好了解然後呢另外呢就是說是談到有關於這個政務人員法制方面的這個問題喔其實呢在上次情緒部的部長施部長他說呢這個這個有關於政務人員的法制不屬於考試院的權責請問劉秘書長你們考試院的意見呢"},{"start":731.143,"end":747.456,"text":"各位報告這一屆考試委員沒有就這個部分做成討論那這個因為那這個事情前一屆呢前一屆沒有處理都沒有處理對12屆也沒有再前一屆也沒有那主要就是因為說如果這個事跟行政沒有共識的話其實這個法案送不出來因為他會險"},{"start":749.073,"end":771.005,"text":"考試院在多年前曾經有提出過政務人員法到政務人員的退府條例也是屬於你們考試院所提的退府條例比較特別只有什麼特別你按照我們的風景也是由你們處理的憲政執掌上面是有退府的所以這個部分我覺得非常重要必須要去釐清另外有關於陳菊的請假的問題她現在已經請假幾個月了"},{"start":774.541,"end":780.305,"text":"對 這我不清楚 可能要問檢測員從大概現在為止應該請假七八個月了嗎請問 請問處長大概差不多八個月了吧是 報告委員那個院長的請假按照那個公務人員的請假規則現在目前請假的時間的確已經超過八個月已經超過八個月了所以如果說按照我們公務人員請假規則來講的話他最長的可以請假到什麼 明年到今年年底 對不對"},{"start":803.892,"end":827.997,"text":"這個部分按照那個規則他除了士兵假休假都請完之外另外還可以請延長兵假所以呢他最常可以請到多久嘛這個部分因為這個部分是不是要請那個我要講的就是說公務人員在請假規則裡面其實非常清楚他最多可能請一年可是陳菊不一樣他也不是狹野的公務員對不對他是政務人員政務人員可以請假這麼久"},{"start":830.818,"end":836.244,"text":"雖然說我們不忍心看到有任何一個政務官生病請假但是他確實請假這麼長他已經也耽誤了公務公職更何況就是說我們看到有其他的一些法規如果像不管是中選會啊NCC的這些相關組織法如果說是這個委員他離病啊或生病啊等等的話其實行政院長是可以允允免職的"},{"start":854.662,"end":878.411,"text":"這未來的相關法制你們是不是也應該要去修正一下否則如果說我們未來的政務官長期的這樣生病他沒有辦法執行他的職務那麼其實不管社會觀感也不好而且我覺得最重要他是會影響到政務的所以這部分話也應該要去去去一併的去修法也請你們要給我一份延續報告然後最後好最後我要再講就是剛剛吳思瑤委員"},{"start":881.417,"end":904.215,"text":"真的叫做鬼扯一通難怪人家說他常常就是無造謠他對於法律對於憲法是一知半解所以常常就會講一些莫名其妙根本不正確的事情他剛剛講說過去在憲法大法官解釋"},{"start":906.804,"end":933.559,"text":"264號解釋裡面也有講到說立法院是不可以任意的提出追加預算他到底有沒有搞清楚264號解釋講的是當時是立法院做成的決議希望行政機關要求要追加預算要提高發放半個月的工作獎金這只是一個決議他不是立法院通過的法律"},{"start":935.752,"end":954.322,"text":"吳思瑤今天他說的剛剛講的說因為264號解釋的理由所以這次行政院跟賴清德總統認為說軍人待遇條例他是調高薪水所以不應該編列預算這樣的"},{"start":956.863,"end":972.709,"text":"說法是完全錯誤根本不是這麼回事這吳思瑤委員其實她雖然在立法院已經做了好幾屆的委員但是我完全看不出來她的法律素養是有進步是有漲進"},{"start":974.059,"end":999.05,"text":"如果說今天他要講這個事情他應該要把264號解釋好好的看清楚而不是張冠禮禮帶把根本不是這個根本不適合拿來跟這一次行政院違法不編列軍人警消這個待遇的還有退休金的這樣的一個預算的事情拿來做相比擬這是非常惡劣很惡質的所以就是不斷的這個造謠"},{"start":1001.172,"end":1022.529,"text":"我最後還要再強調就是限訴法的修正基本上它是跟很多國家的做法是相同的在我們過去大法官審理案件法裡面也是將審理的門檻做成維新派人員考它的標準是三分之二或四分之三的怎麼可以說限訴法是惡法"},{"start":1024.276,"end":1044.382,"text":"憲法法庭今天沒有辦法這個這個召開審理他的問題不在於限訴法而是在於沒有適合的大法官人選就連民進黨自己都不認同賴清德總統所提出的大法官這個候選人怎麼可以怪罪到說這個是限訴法是惡法所以我看到吳思堯委員這樣子的一個發言非常不能認同"},{"start":1055.421,"end":1077.075,"text":"我必須要再講立法委員在這個質詢台上面自己要做功課多讀書不要常常去講一些五四三這個混淆是非的一些論述這個真的是有愧於身為一個民意代表身為立法委員好 以上謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":520,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（10時43分）好，謝謝主席。我在這邊首先先請國防部法律事務司軍法事務處王副處長，然後也請內政部的簡專委。首先，不好意思，王副處長，我想先請教，在過去這些年裡面國軍的待遇調整有多少次？我們曾經有多少次調薪，從105年開始到現在？"],["王副處長秉豐：報告委員，詳細我不知道，但是我記得好幾次了。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，基本上，我看了一些新聞，從105年起，國防部對於軍人的調薪有調整了4次，合計漲幅大概14%。我想您在軍中也服役很久了，請問您過去有沒有印象軍人待遇調薪，然後行政院不編預算、國防部不編預算的？有沒有曾經國防部不編列預算？"],["王副處長秉豐：報告委員，因為預算非本司……我是法律司的，所以這部分……"],["翁委員曉玲：你法律司應該要了解相關的法制啊！"],["王副處長秉豐：是、是。"],["翁委員曉玲：是啊！"],["王副處長秉豐：有關這個部分，我並不清楚，是不是會後再跟委員……"],["翁委員曉玲：從法律的角度來說，您認為軍人待遇條例立法院都通過了，給軍人的待遇調薪，尤其是加給的部分調薪，這個部分可以不執行嗎？可以不編列預算嗎？國防部的法律事務處在國防部不編列預算這件事情上面，有向你們的長官表達過可能會有違法的疑慮嗎？"],["王副處長秉豐：這個部分我們部長在近日對媒體也有回答，基於行政一體，目前在……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以國防部都沒有向行政院表示過任何抗議，或是認為這樣子的作法是有違法疑慮的？都沒有把這樣的意見告訴過行政院院長嗎？"],["王副處長秉豐：這一部分我並不是很清楚。"],["翁委員曉玲：看起來現在顧立雄就是個聽命行事的國防部部長，他根本沒有把國軍弟兄放在心裡。如果他是個愛護國軍的長官的話，他今天就應該要在行政院會議上面，或者是他應該要向行政院長反映怎麼可以法律通過了，竟然不編列預算。"],["王副處長秉豐：報告委員，從我們部長一上任以來，就不斷地跟各級幹部講一定要照顧國軍。針對國軍的各項待遇……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們要聽其言、觀其行。副處長，您不用幫顧立雄擦脂抹粉，他到底有沒有愛護國軍弟兄？這一次的事件就清清楚楚，他沒有編列就是沒有編列，甚至連向行政院院長提出異議，他都沒有嘛！看起來就是這樣。"],["王副處長秉豐：報告委員……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，接下來，我想請問內政部的簡專委，內政部部長有沒有向行政院院長提出異議？"],["簡專門委員鈺珒：報告委員，因為我們今天派員列席的這個部分是不清楚關於警消條例相關加給的問題，是不是容我們會後再跟委員說明？"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我在想應該也沒有，我沒有看到劉世芳部長在媒體上面有說他要捍衛警消人員的權益，然後向行政院長表示異議、表示抗議，也沒有嘛！所以不管是國防部部長顧立雄或是內政部部長劉世芳，基本上說什麼愛軍、愛警消，我覺得那都是騙人的。請兩位先回座。","接下來請考試院劉秘書長或是銓敘部懷次長。"],["劉秘書長建忻：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：請問劉秘書長，這次考試院針對114年考試院的預算，你們有提出釋憲嗎？你們當時有加在行政院中央政府總預算裡面一起去提起釋憲嗎？考試院的部分？"],["劉秘書長建忻：沒有、沒有，總預算因為是行政院的權責，考試院沒有就這個部分提出釋憲。"],["翁委員曉玲：我在想可能你也不太清楚，到底行政院提出的114年總預算釋憲裡面有沒有涵蓋考試院的部分？它是一整本去釋憲吧？"],["劉秘書長建忻：對，它就總預算釋憲，總預算釋憲就包含全國，但是內容上面的部分……"],["翁委員曉玲：有沒有？請你們知道的……"],["懷次長敍：因為我們沒有看過釋憲文，所以不知道它到底提什麼釋憲。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以這是很可笑的一件事情，卓榮泰提出了114年政府總預算的釋憲案，裡面可能就包含了考試院、司法院、監察院，而你們卻一無所知，你們根本不知道你們的預算是不是已經被提起釋憲了。我上次有問過司法院的副秘書長，他說他不知道，但是看起來是整包一起去提起釋憲，還有按照賴清德的邏輯，如果現在案子在聲請釋憲當中就不應該執行，那麼114年中央政府總預算案是不是也應該要停止執行？有的時候看到賴總統的發言、卓榮泰院長的發言，都讓我覺得他們怎麼可以雙標到如此的境界！114年中央政府總預算案他提釋憲在先，而且大法官已經受理了、憲法法庭已經受理了；看看軍人待遇條例跟警消人員條例，他什麼時候提出釋憲的？就在前幾天，8月22號才送出的，大法官受理了嗎？沒有受理啊！你們提的釋憲案，大法官受理了，你們還是繼續執行，錢都快花完了，現在還要來追加預算；但對於這個法律通過的，該編的預算也不編，竟然還說因為現在在聲請釋憲中，所以就拒絕編列，等待釋憲結果之後再行編列。這種話也說得出來！我真的不知道該怎麼樣批評現在的總統跟院長，竟然可以違法到這樣的境界！","好，兩位請回。接下來請監察院。"],["黃處長奕元：委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：今天是監察業務處黃處長列席。"],["黃處長奕元：是，委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：監察院的職權到底是什麼？您可不可以解釋一下監察院的職權？"],["黃處長奕元：報告委員，監察院的職權是針對公務人員的違法失職，行使憲法賦予的權力，包括彈劾、糾舉，並提出調查報告。另外，公職人員財產申報是針對……"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我想這很重要，就是針對公務人員以及行政機關的違法失職進行彈劾、糾舉、糾正，請問對於現在我們看到行政院不執行法律的這個部分有沒有啟動調查？監察院有啟動調查嗎？"],["黃處長奕元：報告委員，調查權的行使是監察委員的職權，他們是獨立行使職權，所以這個部分我們當然會尊重……"],["翁委員曉玲：所以到現在為止，監察委員沒有一個人有啟動調查，包含行政院違法剋扣地方性補助款，以及不編列之前對於公務人員加薪的部分，就是一直拖、拖、拖，拖了幾個月之後才核發調整的薪水，然後現在又違法不編列軍人和警消人員的調薪。對此，監察委員不應該啟動調查嗎？我希望今天處長可以把我跟幾個委員的質疑帶回去給監察委員，他們是不是應該要依職權啟動調查？而不應該這麼怠惰！"],["黃處長奕元：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝處長。","接下來我要請劉秘書長還有懷次長。今天我們要討論考績法的問題，在考績法的問題裡面，你們所提的條文修正，我大致上都同意，但有些地方我還不是很清楚，尤其是我們現在知道公務人員常常可能因一次兩大過就免職。如果每年他都是一大過，且連續好幾年都是每年一大過，現在我們有辦法去處理像這樣子的案子、像這樣的公務員嗎？"],["懷次長敍：跟委員報告一下，因為考績的功過是以考績年度為主，所以他去年記過一大過，今年記過一大過，他不會被累積變成兩個大過；但是您剛剛提到，比如講得比較粗暴一點，就是他可能工作都爛爛的、經常出包等等，這應該在平時成績考核就要予以執行，包括他的年終考績，就要將其併在一起……可以……"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，我要講的是，因為我們看到很多公務機關都有反映，就是沒辦法處理，像他可能考績常常被打丙等，但就是沒有辦法處理，可是在你們這次的修正裡面，我沒有看到你們針對類似這種常常被考列丙等的人員有一個更積極的處理機制，這個部分是不是可以請你們去研析，有關常常被考列丙等人員有沒有更正向的輔導改善機制？"],["懷次長敍：好，委員這個意見我們會帶回去，跟委員報告，我們這次修正主要是配合這次保障法的修正，對於霸凌、性侵、性騷等等，有整體配套的修正，就是第十二條的部分，謝謝委員指導。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，了解。","另外，關於政務人員法制方面的問題，其實上次銓敘部施部長說，有關政務人員的法制，不屬於考試院的權責。請問劉秘書長，考試院的意見呢？"],["劉秘書長建忻：跟委員報告，這一屆考試委員沒有就這個部分做成討論，因為這個事情……"],["翁委員曉玲：前一屆呢？"],["劉秘書長建忻：前一屆沒有處理。"],["翁委員曉玲：都沒有處理？"],["劉秘書長建忻：對。第12屆也沒有；再前一屆也沒有，主要是因為如果跟行政院沒有共識，其實這個法案送不出來的，因為它要會銜。"],["翁委員曉玲：考試院在多年前曾經提出過政務人員法。"],["劉秘書長建忻：是。"],["翁委員曉玲：政務人員的退撫條例也是屬於你們考試院所提的。"],["劉秘書長建忻：退撫條例比較特別，因為考試院……"],["翁委員曉玲：這有什麼特別？我們的俸給也是由你們處理的……"],["劉秘書長建忻：憲政職掌上面是有退休撫卹的部分。"],["翁委員曉玲：我覺得這個部分非常重要，必須要釐清。另外，關於陳菊請假的問題，他現在已經請假幾個月了？"],["劉秘書長建忻：這我不清楚，可能要問監察院。"],["翁委員曉玲：大概到現在為止，應該請假七、八個月了嗎？請問處長，差不多有8個月了吧？"],["黃處長奕元：報告委員，院長的請假按照公務人員的請假規則，目前請假時間的確已經超過8個月，但是這有計算標準……"],["翁委員曉玲：已經超過8個月了，如果按照公務人員請假規則，他最長可以請假到今年年底，對不對？"],["黃處長奕元：這個部分按照規則，他除了事病假、休假都請完之外，另外還可以請延長病假。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以他最長可以請到多久？"],["黃處長奕元：這個部分是不是要請那個……"],["翁委員曉玲：我要講的是，公務人員的請假規則裡面規定得非常清楚，他最多可能請1年，可是陳菊不一樣，他不是狹義的公務員，他是政務人員，而政務人員竟可以請假這麼久！雖然我們不忍心看到有任何一個政務官生病請假，但是他確實請假這麼長，也已經耽誤了公務、公職，更何況我們看到其他的一些法規，不管是中選會、NCC這些相關組織法，如果委員罹病或生病等等，其實行政院長是可以予以免職的，所以未來相關法制你們是不是也應該去修正一下？否則未來如果政務官長期生病沒有辦法執行職務，除了社會觀感不好，而且我覺得最重要的，這是會影響到政務的，所以這部分也應該要一併去修法，也請你們給我一份研析報告。","最後，我要再講的是，剛剛吳思瑤委員真的叫做鬼扯一通，難怪人家常常說他是「吳造謠」，他對於法律、對於憲法是一知半解，所以常常就會講一些莫名其妙、根本不正確的事情。他剛剛說，過去在大法官會議第264號解釋裡面也有講到立法院不可以任意的提出追加預算。他到底有沒有搞清楚？第264號解釋講的是，當時是立法院做成的決議，要求行政機關要追加預算，因為要加發半個月的工作獎金。這只是一個決議，它不是立法院通過的法律。吳思瑤剛剛說，因為第264號解釋的理由，所以這次行政院跟賴清德總統認為軍人待遇條例是調高薪水，不應該編列預算，這樣的說法是完全錯誤的，根本不是這麼一回事！吳思瑤委員雖然在立法院已經做了好幾屆的委員，但是我完全看不出來他的法律素養是有進步的、是有長進的，如果今天他要講這個事情，就應該要把第264號解釋好好看清楚，而不是張冠李戴，把根本不適合拿來跟這一次行政院違法不編列軍人、警消待遇還有退休金預算的事情拿來相比擬，這是非常惡劣、很惡質的，所以就是不斷地造謠。","我最後還要再強調，憲訴法的修正基本上跟很多國家的做法是相同的，在我們過去大法官審理案件法裡面，也是將審理的門檻、做成違憲判決的門檻設定標準為三分之二或四分之三，怎麼可以說憲訴法是惡法！憲法法庭今天沒有辦法召開、審理，它的問題不在於憲訴法，而是在於沒有適合的大法官人選，就連民進黨自己都不認同賴清德總統所提出的大法官候選人，怎麼可以怪罪到憲訴法是惡法！所以我看到吳思瑤委員這樣子的發言非常不能認同。我必須要再講，立法委員在這個質詢臺上面，自己要做功課、多讀書，不要常常去講一些五四三、混淆是非的論述，這真的是有愧於身為一個民意代表、身為立法委員。以上，謝謝。"],["主席：沈發惠委員、沈發惠委員、沈發惠委員。","林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員、林倩綺委員。","麥玉珍委員、麥玉珍委員、麥玉珍委員。","蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員、蘇清泉委員。","以下我們請王鴻薇委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":450,"meet_id":"委員會-11-3-36-25","speakers":["吳宗憲","黃國昌","王義川","羅智強","陳培瑜","吳思瑤","翁曉玲","王鴻薇","沈發惠","范雲"],"page_start":351,"meetingDate":["2025-08-28"],"gazette_id":"1147602","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147602_00004"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第3會期司法及法制委員會第25次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"一、繼續併案審查(一)考試院函請審議「公務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(二)委員\n邱志偉等21人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條條文修正草案」案、(三)委員王鴻薇等18人擬具「公\n務人員考績法第十二條條文修正草案」案、(四)委員吳沛憶等20人擬具「公務人員考績法第十二\n條條文修正草案」案、(五)委員范雲等17人擬具「公務人員考績法第三條、第十一條及第十二條\n條文修正草案」案；二、審查委員吳宗憲等17人擬具「政務人員行為基準法草案」案","agenda_id":"1147602_00003"}}}