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\"start\": 924.347, \"end\": 924.507, \"score\": 0.874}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 924.507, \"end\": 924.587, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 924.587, \"end\": 924.687, \"score\": 0.8}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"報\"}, {\"word\": \"案\", \"start\": 924.687, \"end\": 924.747, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 924.747, \"end\": 924.767, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"會\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,029 --> 00:00:00,229\n麻煩再請卓院長備選\n\n2\n00:00:18,524 --> 00:00:39,076\n院長好坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠還要再送一個產業科技園區這個聲音出來政府絕對有這個責任要讓民眾去清楚讓產業去了解這非常重要\n\n3\n00:00:40,237 --> 00:01:00,208\n當然我們看到目前為止所謂提出的在我們剛開始的時候還沒有談判台積電雙手奉餘1650億美元的一個投資開始談判之後美方一直要求必須加碼加碼加碼這個是我們聽到的訊息\n\n4\n00:01:01,636 --> 00:01:29,044\n到目前為止當然我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分沒有所謂的五五分所以大家瞪大了眼睛看既然沒有所謂的五五分除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦政府說我們有一個模式我們要做一個產業科技人區所以在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教\n\n5\n00:01:29,964 --> 00:01:52,438\n我們既然有談判組已經提出了這樣的論述那我本行要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾產業民眾怎麼生活產業怎麼去鏈接所以要請教首先要請教到底你這個產業園區你的規模有多大\n\n6\n00:01:53,158 --> 00:02:14,155\n你到底要投資多少金額到底你關鍵的技術有哪些你會過去到底有多少的廠家會過去請教好謝謝委員這是一個非常好的引申的問題我們先看台灣過去我們幾十年前設立的我們的科學園區\n\n7\n00:02:15,555 --> 00:02:31,836\n我們到今天有各地好多的園區都出現了全球都在想台灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式他們都很想複製當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候你到今天也不知道今天會這麼大這麼多廠商這麼多投資這麼多營業\n\n8\n00:02:36,375 --> 00:02:56,302\n因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景他們按部就班逐步達成不可能一個政府在設立任何的一個行政政策他沒有他的KPI所以這句話本席給予你否定所以全世界正在想台灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下\n\n9\n00:02:57,682 --> 00:03:19,450\n肯定的說沒有辦法複製到底我們沒有辦法複製所以我們是非常耐心的但是你今天要針對本席的提問到底你要到美國要去設立的這個產業園區規模有多大你們預估會有多少廠家他對台灣的衝擊是什麼投資金額是什麼\n\n10\n00:03:22,811 --> 00:03:45,756\n我刚刚被委员否定的就是说当初的科学园区也是小小的园区到今天这么大我们现在到美国去如果大家会成立一个园区我的重点你还没有讲出来什么小小的新竹科学园区我们的园区是一个服务园区我们是一个服务的园区服务国内的厂商为主请问你现在要\n\n11\n00:03:46,776 --> 00:04:01,550\n所說的沒有是不是就是沒有五五分是不是沒有五五分沒有五五分好那接下來本下請問我們所要創立的模式那它的規模有多大它的總投資額到底是有多少妳是說廠商投資的還是妳剛剛說的園區\n\n12\n00:04:04,472 --> 00:04:22,343\n廠商投資嗎你現在所謂沒有五五分嘛那你說我們有一個模式跟等於是plant一個計畫嘛你要設立了一個科研園區嘛包括台積公司跟其他的廠商他們要到美國去設廠這是一個全球佈局的過程\n\n13\n00:04:23,524 --> 00:04:48,883\n政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的那你的規模有多大那是廠商自己決定啊產業自己決定啊當然是要跟廠商參詳嘛但是你政府竟然提出你一定有你的計畫內容啊你不可能你沒有計畫嘛你也不可能沒有額度嘛你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛院長我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去\n\n14\n00:04:50,423 --> 00:05:10,501\n廠商要做支援球的布局我們都同意啊你這麼說讓民眾更加的摩薩薩本席希望你好好去討論因為到談判到現在我們到底我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼我們現在看到的成果就是奉送1650億美元\n\n15\n00:05:12,503 --> 00:05:38,096\n去投資台積電在美國而且美方一直要加碼還好你的說沒有55分所以本期要告訴你到目前為止你的談判到目前為止告訴我們最近期告訴我們我們沒有55分我們有所謂的產業科研區希望要設立那當然你一定有你的\n\n16\n00:05:38,816 --> 00:06:05,275\n內容方向產業別關鍵技術是什麼本席希望你好好的去討論你現在沒有辦法回答本席我本席希望民眾希望要能夠有所本的了解他才不會恐慌產業也希望有所本的了解才不會恐慌所以本席希望你好好的去討論到底對我們台灣的產業是衝擊正面或者是負面民眾\n\n17\n00:06:06,636 --> 00:06:30,448\n有這個權利之道政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾院長對不對這個園區如果這樣來成立是要服務我們的廠商去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得而且要有生活的機能而且要提高他的競爭力有嘛你本來就有規劃嘛你連生活機能都講了嘛所以你必須要讓民眾去了解所以本身要告訴你\n\n18\n00:06:31,568 --> 00:06:57,020\n我們也不要只有內宣外宣我們要真正的實務也不要只有話術因為產業就是產業本席也最支持我們的產業所以本席一個具體建議也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做你們可以說的要告訴民眾而且不要讓民眾到現在整個談判我們是姆薩薩的因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電還要再不夠\n\n19\n00:06:57,660 --> 00:07:00,042\n我們剛講過談判的原則就是以國家的利益產業的利益\n\n20\n00:07:20,442 --> 00:07:40,255\n國人的健康跟糧食安全終於有一個共識以國家的利益以產業的權益跟產業的穩定性以及就業率這個是我們很重要所以你必須有這個責任要將剛剛我們所討論的要能夠讓民眾來瞭解接下來本席要請教我們今天討論的這個議題重點\n\n21\n00:07:42,757 --> 00:07:58,402\n也要對你們肯定的是說你們最後終於願意面對民意站在在野黨的這個建議從善的去終於要普發先進一萬元所以民眾很期待本期要請教\n\n22\n00:07:59,963 --> 00:08:24,674\n因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力以及我們整個振興經濟在新加坡在其他國家都已經在做所以我們終於我也肯定你們終於聽到民意願意這麼做所以請教如果說我們現在預算進來如果在10月中就完成請教院長什麼時候會發放正式發放請說明\n\n23\n00:08:26,155 --> 00:08:39,687\n依照特別條例的規定是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放所以如果我們現在大家我想藍綠白大家都支持了行政院也支持了我也非常謝謝那所以本市要還是說\n\n24\n00:08:42,042 --> 00:09:10,432\n月中的時候如果通過你們必須要重塑而且公平的有效的這個方式趕快來發放是不是如此的方向是準備工作請部長再說明重點預計什麼時候會發跟委員報告你本來通過之後你什麼時候會發太平一算通過以後總統公布一個月以內一定發放那我們一定會把時間縮短盡快那目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中更多的包含系統\n\n25\n00:09:11,312 --> 00:09:39,789\n還有ATM也可以領其實我們跟委員報告上一次的分析結果大家到網站去登記入帳的大概占了差不多接近五成剩下另外還有很大一個部分是ATM這兩個部分一定要好好的做讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到還有一個就是我們直接發放照冊直接發放這個部分的清澈都要持續的核對因為有很多民眾同步進行所以我們會用最快的速度盡快的來辦\n\n26\n00:09:40,669 --> 00:09:53,183\n速度那個那個院長那麼我們是不是可以這麼解讀十月底就大概可以進行發放的工作因為現在同步進行如果當然一切順利的話馬上就可以發放\n\n27\n00:09:55,666 --> 00:10:22,666\n這個非常好終於藍綠白行政院院計大家都同意也就是幫助緩解物價高的壓力以及振興我們國內產業的一個刺激這個對我們小商店街來講是非常非常的重要所以就成為院長所說的儘快來放我們的解讀是在10月底就可以來做放我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序趕快同步進行去\n\n28\n00:10:23,487 --> 00:10:24,188\n延末成功\n\n29\n00:10:53,707 --> 00:11:07,869\n都是編列特別預算為基準那等於也是加重我們的財務的一個負擔的負債那多數你特別預算就會排除到什麼法呢排除到這個預算法排除到公共債務法排除到這個財政紀律\n\n30\n00:11:09,511 --> 00:11:32,951\n等這個規範因為是特別所以會排除到這些我們看到到目前累計的特別預算的這個部分舉債是3.4兆已經高於我們年度最高的3.1兆的總預算如果持續的以這種方式來控管債務的一個流量如果以這種方式就走旁門\n\n31\n00:11:34,132 --> 00:11:58,377\n來控管債務的這個流量管制那可能也會持續的增加整個公共債務的一個攀升那所以呢預算中心也特別提到了中華政府每一年你以公共債務一年以上你的公共債務沒有還的有多少呢有5兆多那換句話說平均值每一個人的負債就是剛才本市所說的是這個25.6萬\n\n32\n00:12:01,238 --> 00:12:20,632\n在這樣如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬然後不再增加公共債務的情況之下那你115年明年度你還債的還本是多少呢是1265億元如果以這樣的基準數來計算那等於要46年才可以還得完\n\n33\n00:12:21,552 --> 00:12:37,098\n那個院長所以本席要告訴你待會跟你回答本席要告訴你我們的特別預算裡頭的項目你有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊喔比如說我們的弱勢關懷老弱補助啊我們有增加項目跟內容啊\n\n34\n00:12:37,898 --> 00:12:52,924\n對獨居老人項目你先不要緊張本席告訴你中低收入戶還有支通的部分這個在公務預算裡頭都有那是不是有重疊本席具體告訴你因為這一次的舉債是1056億元\n\n35\n00:12:55,845 --> 00:13:16,568\n那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下你們是不是在去盤點如果有重複的務必要拿掉因為都是人民的納稅錢所以本席要說的是你如果沒有辦法去改變這樣的方式那你的財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢所以本席要請教院長\n\n36\n00:13:17,549 --> 00:13:40,664\n在這樣的數字當然是很沉重你們除了編列特別預算之外來避開整個公共債務的一個流量管制還有沒有其他的財源來源可以能夠生財出來剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們盡快發放現金第二段的時候你又說我們舉債過多\n\n37\n00:13:43,052 --> 00:14:04,646\n院長您身為院長我是蠻尊重你你這樣講我又要給你負分喔我們的舉債是這個樣子來的啊我們現金是超徵稅收啊跟這個預算是不在的啊對不對你這四年超徵的這麼多是拿這個來算所以當我們在質詢的時候我們希望見到的是院長你的政策\n\n38\n00:14:07,828 --> 00:14:22,011\n是希望聽到你的政策院長我們是有遵守財政紀律而且所有的舉債沒有去違背公債法還有財政紀律法都是管控而債務的計算不是用這個本席要問院長謝謝你謝謝實現了關係本席請問院長舉債跟還款在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面你們的計畫是什麼\n\n39\n00:14:33,726 --> 00:15:02,242\n如果依照現在還款你要46年才可以還得完不再舉債喔所以本席具體請教我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的還完債務而且我們還增加還債除了預算數之外我們還增加還債對差不多依照本席希望聽到你的答案就是舉債跟還款的計畫我希望你一份書面資料給本席那沒問題好不好我再問院長可以嗎\n\n40\n00:15:02,702 --> 00:15:24,767\n院長多久時間可以給本席這個都是公開而且正確的說明多久時間可以給本席這個財政部馬上可以提供這有現存馬上給本席本席就希望你在取債跟還款的時候你要冷靜的有政策才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平等好的好謝謝楊瓊瑜委員質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝報案院會\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n29\t229\t麻煩再請卓院長備選\n18524\t39076\t院長好 坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠 還要再送一個產業科技園區這個聲音出來 政府絕對有這個責任 要讓民眾去清楚 讓產業去了解 這非常重要\n40237\t60208\t當然我們看到目前為止所謂提出的在我們剛開始的時候還沒有談判台積電雙手奉餘1650億美元的一個投資開始談判之後美方一直要求必須加碼 加碼 加碼這個是我們聽到的訊息\n61636\t89044\t到目前為止當然我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分沒有所謂的五五分所以大家瞪大了眼睛看既然沒有所謂的五五分除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦政府說我們有一個模式我們要做一個產業科技人區所以在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教\n89964\t112438\t我們既然有談判組已經提出了這樣的論述那我本行要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾產業民眾怎麼生活 產業怎麼去鏈接所以要請教 首先要請教到底你這個產業園區 你的規模有多大\n113158\t134155\t你到底要投資多少金額到底你關鍵的技術有哪些你會過去到底有多少的廠家會過去請教好 謝謝委員這是一個非常好的引申的問題我們先看台灣過去我們幾十年前設立的我們的科學園區\n135555\t151836\t我們到今天有各地好多的園區都出現了全球都在想台灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式他們都很想複製當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候你到今天也不知道今天會這麼大這麼多廠商這麼多投資這麼多營業\n156375\t176302\t因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景他們按部就班逐步達成不可能一個政府在設立任何的一個行政政策他沒有他的KPI所以這句話本席給予你否定所以全世界正在想台灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下\n177682\t199450\t肯定的說沒有辦法複製到底我們沒有辦法複製所以我們是非常耐心的但是你今天要針對本席的提問到底你要到美國要去設立的這個產業園區規模有多大你們預估會有多少廠家他對台灣的衝擊是什麼投資金額是什麼\n202811\t225756\t我刚刚被委员否定的就是说当初的科学园区也是小小的园区到今天这么大我们现在到美国去如果大家会成立一个园区我的重点你还没有讲出来什么小小的新竹科学园区我们的园区是一个服务园区我们是一个服务的园区服务国内的厂商为主请问你现在要\n226776\t241550\t所說的沒有 是不是就是沒有五五分是不是沒有五五分沒有五五分 好那接下來本下請問我們所要創立的模式那它的規模有多大它的總投資額到底是有多少妳是說廠商投資的還是妳剛剛說的園區\n244472\t262343\t廠商投資嗎你現在所謂沒有五五分嘛那你說我們有一個模式跟等於是plant一個計畫嘛你要設立了一個科研園區嘛包括台積公司跟其他的廠商他們要到美國去設廠這是一個全球佈局的過程\n263524\t288883\t政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的那你的規模有多大那是廠商自己決定啊產業自己決定啊當然是要跟廠商參詳嘛但是你政府竟然提出你一定有你的計畫內容啊你不可能你沒有計畫嘛你也不可能沒有額度嘛你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛院長我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去\n290423\t310501\t廠商要做支援球的布局 我們都同意啊你這麼說 讓民眾更加的摩薩薩本席希望 你好好去討論因為到談判到現在我們到底 我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼我們現在看到的成果就是奉送1650億美元\n312503\t338096\t去投資台積電在美國而且美方一直要加碼還好你的說沒有55分所以本期要告訴你到目前為止你的談判到目前為止告訴我們 最近期告訴我們我們沒有55分我們有所謂的產業科研區希望要設立那當然你一定有你的\n338816\t365275\t內容方向產業別關鍵技術是什麼本席希望你好好的去討論你現在沒有辦法回答本席我本席希望民眾希望要能夠有所本的了解他才不會恐慌產業也希望有所本的了解才不會恐慌所以本席希望你好好的去討論到底對我們台灣的產業是衝擊正面或者是負面民眾\n366636\t390448\t有這個權利之道政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾院長對不對這個園區如果這樣來成立是要服務我們的廠商去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得而且要有生活的機能而且要提高他的競爭力有嘛 你本來就有規劃嘛你連生活機能都講了嘛所以你必須要讓民眾去了解所以本身要告訴你\n391568\t417020\t我們也不要只有內宣外宣我們要真正的實務也不要只有話術因為產業就是產業本席也最支持我們的產業所以本席一個具體建議也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做你們可以說的要告訴民眾而且不要讓民眾到現在整個談判我們是姆薩薩的因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電還要再不夠\n417660\t420042\t我們剛講過 談判的原則就是以國家的利益 產業的利益\n440442\t460255\t國人的健康跟糧食安全終於有一個共識以國家的利益 以產業的權益跟產業的穩定性以及就業率這個是我們很重要所以你必須有這個責任要將剛剛我們所討論的要能夠讓民眾來瞭解接下來本席要請教我們今天討論的這個議題重點\n462757\t478402\t也要對你們肯定的是說你們最後終於願意面對民意站在在野黨的這個建議從善的去終於要普發先進一萬元所以民眾很期待本期要請教\n479963\t504674\t因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力以及我們整個振興經濟在新加坡在其他國家都已經在做所以我們終於我也肯定你們終於聽到民意願意這麼做所以請教如果說我們現在預算進來如果在10月中就完成請教院長什麼時候會發放正式發放請說明\n506155\t519687\t依照特別條例的規定是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放所以如果我們現在大家我想藍綠白大家都支持了行政院也支持了我也非常謝謝那所以本市要還是說\n522042\t550432\t月中的時候如果通過你們必須要重塑而且公平的有效的這個方式趕快來發放是不是如此的方向是 準備工作請部長再說明重點預計什麼時候會發跟委員報告你本來通過之後你什麼時候會發太平一算通過以後總統公布一個月以內一定發放那我們一定會把時間縮短盡快那目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中更多的包含系統\n551312\t579789\t還有ATM也可以領其實我們跟委員報告上一次的分析結果大家到網站去登記入帳的大概占了差不多接近五成剩下另外還有很大一個部分是ATM這兩個部分一定要好好的做讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到還有一個就是我們直接發放照冊直接發放這個部分的清澈都要持續的核對因為有很多民眾同步進行所以我們會用最快的速度盡快的來辦\n580669\t593183\t速度那個那個院長那麼我們是不是可以這麼解讀十月底就大概可以進行發放的工作因為現在同步進行如果當然一切順利的話馬上就可以發放\n595666\t622666\t這個非常好 終於藍綠白行政院院計大家都同意也就是幫助緩解物價高的壓力以及振興我們國內產業的一個刺激這個對我們小商店街來講是非常非常的重要所以就成為院長所說的 儘快來放我們的解讀是在10月底就可以來做放我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序趕快同步進行去\n623487\t624188\t延末成功\n653707\t667869\t都是編列特別預算為基準那等於也是加重我們的財務的一個負擔的負債那多數你特別預算就會排除到什麼法呢排除到這個預算法排除到公共債務法排除到這個財政紀律\n669511\t692951\t等這個規範 因為是特別所以會排除到這些我們看到到目前累計的特別預算的這個部分舉債是3.4兆已經高於我們年度最高的3.1兆的總預算如果持續的以這種方式來控管債務的一個流量如果以這種方式就走旁門\n694132\t718377\t來控管債務的這個流量管制那可能也會持續的增加整個公共債務的一個攀升那所以呢預算中心也特別提到了中華政府每一年你以公共債務一年以上你的公共債務沒有還的有多少呢有5兆多那換句話說平均值每一個人的負債就是剛才本市所說的是這個25.6萬\n721238\t740632\t在這樣如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬然後不再增加公共債務的情況之下那你115年明年度你還債的還本是多少呢是1265億元如果以這樣的基準數來計算那等於要46年才可以還得完\n741552\t757098\t那個院長所以本席要告訴你待會跟你回答本席要告訴你我們的特別預算裡頭的項目你有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊喔比如說我們的弱勢關懷老弱補助啊我們有增加項目跟內容啊\n757898\t772924\t對 獨居老人項目你先不要緊張本席告訴你中低收入戶還有支通的部分這個在公務預算裡頭都有那是不是有重疊本席具體告訴你因為這一次的舉債是1056億元\n775845\t796568\t那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下你們是不是在去盤點如果有重複的務必要拿掉因為都是人民的納稅錢所以本席要說的是你如果沒有辦法去改變這樣的方式那你的財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢所以本席要請教院長\n797549\t820664\t在這樣的數字當然是很沉重你們除了編列特別預算之外來避開整個公共債務的一個流量管制還有沒有其他的財源來源可以能夠生財出來剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們盡快發放現金第二段的時候你又說我們舉債過多\n823052\t844646\t院長 您身為院長我是蠻尊重你你這樣講我又要給你負分喔我們的舉債是這個樣子來的啊我們現金是超徵稅收啊跟這個預算是不在的啊對不對 你這四年超徵的這麼多是拿這個來算所以當我們在質詢的時候我們希望見到的是院長 你的政策\n847828\t862011\t是希望聽到你的政策 院長我們是有遵守財政紀律而且所有的舉債沒有去違背公債法還有財政紀律法 都是管控而債務的計算不是用這個本席要問院長 謝謝你謝謝 實現了關係本席請問院長舉債跟還款在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面你們的計畫是什麼\n873726\t902242\t如果依照現在還款你要46年才可以還得完不再舉債喔所以本席具體請教我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的還完債務而且我們還增加還債除了預算數之外我們還增加還債對 差不多依照本席希望聽到你的答案就是舉債跟還款的計畫我希望你一份書面資料給本席那沒問題 好不好我再問院長 可以嗎\n902702\t924767\t院長 多久時間可以給本席這個都是公開而且正確的說明多久時間可以給本席這個財政部馬上可以提供這有現存馬上給本席本席就希望你在取債跟還款的時候你要冷靜的有政策才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平等好的好 謝謝楊瓊瑜委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝報案院會\n","txt":"麻煩再請卓院長備選\n院長好 坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠 還要再送一個產業科技園區這個聲音出來 政府絕對有這個責任 要讓民眾去清楚 讓產業去了解 這非常重要\n當然我們看到目前為止所謂提出的在我們剛開始的時候還沒有談判台積電雙手奉餘1650億美元的一個投資開始談判之後美方一直要求必須加碼 加碼 加碼這個是我們聽到的訊息\n到目前為止當然我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分沒有所謂的五五分所以大家瞪大了眼睛看既然沒有所謂的五五分除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦政府說我們有一個模式我們要做一個產業科技人區所以在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教\n我們既然有談判組已經提出了這樣的論述那我本行要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾產業民眾怎麼生活 產業怎麼去鏈接所以要請教 首先要請教到底你這個產業園區 你的規模有多大\n你到底要投資多少金額到底你關鍵的技術有哪些你會過去到底有多少的廠家會過去請教好 謝謝委員這是一個非常好的引申的問題我們先看台灣過去我們幾十年前設立的我們的科學園區\n我們到今天有各地好多的園區都出現了全球都在想台灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式他們都很想複製當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候你到今天也不知道今天會這麼大這麼多廠商這麼多投資這麼多營業\n因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景他們按部就班逐步達成不可能一個政府在設立任何的一個行政政策他沒有他的KPI所以這句話本席給予你否定所以全世界正在想台灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下\n肯定的說沒有辦法複製到底我們沒有辦法複製所以我們是非常耐心的但是你今天要針對本席的提問到底你要到美國要去設立的這個產業園區規模有多大你們預估會有多少廠家他對台灣的衝擊是什麼投資金額是什麼\n我刚刚被委员否定的就是说当初的科学园区也是小小的园区到今天这么大我们现在到美国去如果大家会成立一个园区我的重点你还没有讲出来什么小小的新竹科学园区我们的园区是一个服务园区我们是一个服务的园区服务国内的厂商为主请问你现在要\n所說的沒有 是不是就是沒有五五分是不是沒有五五分沒有五五分 好那接下來本下請問我們所要創立的模式那它的規模有多大它的總投資額到底是有多少妳是說廠商投資的還是妳剛剛說的園區\n廠商投資嗎你現在所謂沒有五五分嘛那你說我們有一個模式跟等於是plant一個計畫嘛你要設立了一個科研園區嘛包括台積公司跟其他的廠商他們要到美國去設廠這是一個全球佈局的過程\n政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的那你的規模有多大那是廠商自己決定啊產業自己決定啊當然是要跟廠商參詳嘛但是你政府竟然提出你一定有你的計畫內容啊你不可能你沒有計畫嘛你也不可能沒有額度嘛你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛院長我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去\n廠商要做支援球的布局 我們都同意啊你這麼說 讓民眾更加的摩薩薩本席希望 你好好去討論因為到談判到現在我們到底 我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼我們現在看到的成果就是奉送1650億美元\n去投資台積電在美國而且美方一直要加碼還好你的說沒有55分所以本期要告訴你到目前為止你的談判到目前為止告訴我們 最近期告訴我們我們沒有55分我們有所謂的產業科研區希望要設立那當然你一定有你的\n內容方向產業別關鍵技術是什麼本席希望你好好的去討論你現在沒有辦法回答本席我本席希望民眾希望要能夠有所本的了解他才不會恐慌產業也希望有所本的了解才不會恐慌所以本席希望你好好的去討論到底對我們台灣的產業是衝擊正面或者是負面民眾\n有這個權利之道政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾院長對不對這個園區如果這樣來成立是要服務我們的廠商去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得而且要有生活的機能而且要提高他的競爭力有嘛 你本來就有規劃嘛你連生活機能都講了嘛所以你必須要讓民眾去了解所以本身要告訴你\n我們也不要只有內宣外宣我們要真正的實務也不要只有話術因為產業就是產業本席也最支持我們的產業所以本席一個具體建議也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做你們可以說的要告訴民眾而且不要讓民眾到現在整個談判我們是姆薩薩的因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電還要再不夠\n我們剛講過 談判的原則就是以國家的利益 產業的利益\n國人的健康跟糧食安全終於有一個共識以國家的利益 以產業的權益跟產業的穩定性以及就業率這個是我們很重要所以你必須有這個責任要將剛剛我們所討論的要能夠讓民眾來瞭解接下來本席要請教我們今天討論的這個議題重點\n也要對你們肯定的是說你們最後終於願意面對民意站在在野黨的這個建議從善的去終於要普發先進一萬元所以民眾很期待本期要請教\n因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力以及我們整個振興經濟在新加坡在其他國家都已經在做所以我們終於我也肯定你們終於聽到民意願意這麼做所以請教如果說我們現在預算進來如果在10月中就完成請教院長什麼時候會發放正式發放請說明\n依照特別條例的規定是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放所以如果我們現在大家我想藍綠白大家都支持了行政院也支持了我也非常謝謝那所以本市要還是說\n月中的時候如果通過你們必須要重塑而且公平的有效的這個方式趕快來發放是不是如此的方向是 準備工作請部長再說明重點預計什麼時候會發跟委員報告你本來通過之後你什麼時候會發太平一算通過以後總統公布一個月以內一定發放那我們一定會把時間縮短盡快那目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中更多的包含系統\n還有ATM也可以領其實我們跟委員報告上一次的分析結果大家到網站去登記入帳的大概占了差不多接近五成剩下另外還有很大一個部分是ATM這兩個部分一定要好好的做讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到還有一個就是我們直接發放照冊直接發放這個部分的清澈都要持續的核對因為有很多民眾同步進行所以我們會用最快的速度盡快的來辦\n速度那個那個院長那麼我們是不是可以這麼解讀十月底就大概可以進行發放的工作因為現在同步進行如果當然一切順利的話馬上就可以發放\n這個非常好 終於藍綠白行政院院計大家都同意也就是幫助緩解物價高的壓力以及振興我們國內產業的一個刺激這個對我們小商店街來講是非常非常的重要所以就成為院長所說的 儘快來放我們的解讀是在10月底就可以來做放我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序趕快同步進行去\n延末成功\n都是編列特別預算為基準那等於也是加重我們的財務的一個負擔的負債那多數你特別預算就會排除到什麼法呢排除到這個預算法排除到公共債務法排除到這個財政紀律\n等這個規範 因為是特別所以會排除到這些我們看到到目前累計的特別預算的這個部分舉債是3.4兆已經高於我們年度最高的3.1兆的總預算如果持續的以這種方式來控管債務的一個流量如果以這種方式就走旁門\n來控管債務的這個流量管制那可能也會持續的增加整個公共債務的一個攀升那所以呢預算中心也特別提到了中華政府每一年你以公共債務一年以上你的公共債務沒有還的有多少呢有5兆多那換句話說平均值每一個人的負債就是剛才本市所說的是這個25.6萬\n在這樣如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬然後不再增加公共債務的情況之下那你115年明年度你還債的還本是多少呢是1265億元如果以這樣的基準數來計算那等於要46年才可以還得完\n那個院長所以本席要告訴你待會跟你回答本席要告訴你我們的特別預算裡頭的項目你有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊喔比如說我們的弱勢關懷老弱補助啊我們有增加項目跟內容啊\n對 獨居老人項目你先不要緊張本席告訴你中低收入戶還有支通的部分這個在公務預算裡頭都有那是不是有重疊本席具體告訴你因為這一次的舉債是1056億元\n那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下你們是不是在去盤點如果有重複的務必要拿掉因為都是人民的納稅錢所以本席要說的是你如果沒有辦法去改變這樣的方式那你的財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢所以本席要請教院長\n在這樣的數字當然是很沉重你們除了編列特別預算之外來避開整個公共債務的一個流量管制還有沒有其他的財源來源可以能夠生財出來剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們盡快發放現金第二段的時候你又說我們舉債過多\n院長 您身為院長我是蠻尊重你你這樣講我又要給你負分喔我們的舉債是這個樣子來的啊我們現金是超徵稅收啊跟這個預算是不在的啊對不對 你這四年超徵的這麼多是拿這個來算所以當我們在質詢的時候我們希望見到的是院長 你的政策\n是希望聽到你的政策 院長我們是有遵守財政紀律而且所有的舉債沒有去違背公債法還有財政紀律法 都是管控而債務的計算不是用這個本席要問院長 謝謝你謝謝 實現了關係本席請問院長舉債跟還款在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面你們的計畫是什麼\n如果依照現在還款你要46年才可以還得完不再舉債喔所以本席具體請教我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的還完債務而且我們還增加還債除了預算數之外我們還增加還債對 差不多依照本席希望聽到你的答案就是舉債跟還款的計畫我希望你一份書面資料給本席那沒問題 好不好我再問院長 可以嗎\n院長 多久時間可以給本席這個都是公開而且正確的說明多久時間可以給本席這個財政部馬上可以提供這有現存馬上給本席本席就希望你在取債跟還款的時候你要冷靜的有政策才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平等好的好 謝謝楊瓊瑜委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝報案院會\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.029 --> 00:00.229\n麻煩再請卓院長備選\n\n00:18.524 --> 00:39.076\n院長好坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠還要再送一個產業科技園區這個聲音出來政府絕對有這個責任要讓民眾去清楚讓產業去了解這非常重要\n\n00:40.237 --> 01:00.208\n當然我們看到目前為止所謂提出的在我們剛開始的時候還沒有談判台積電雙手奉餘1650億美元的一個投資開始談判之後美方一直要求必須加碼加碼加碼這個是我們聽到的訊息\n\n01:01.636 --> 01:29.044\n到目前為止當然我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分沒有所謂的五五分所以大家瞪大了眼睛看既然沒有所謂的五五分除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦政府說我們有一個模式我們要做一個產業科技人區所以在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教\n\n01:29.964 --> 01:52.438\n我們既然有談判組已經提出了這樣的論述那我本行要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾產業民眾怎麼生活產業怎麼去鏈接所以要請教首先要請教到底你這個產業園區你的規模有多大\n\n01:53.158 --> 02:14.155\n你到底要投資多少金額到底你關鍵的技術有哪些你會過去到底有多少的廠家會過去請教好謝謝委員這是一個非常好的引申的問題我們先看台灣過去我們幾十年前設立的我們的科學園區\n\n02:15.555 --> 02:31.836\n我們到今天有各地好多的園區都出現了全球都在想台灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式他們都很想複製當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候你到今天也不知道今天會這麼大這麼多廠商這麼多投資這麼多營業\n\n02:36.375 --> 02:56.302\n因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景他們按部就班逐步達成不可能一個政府在設立任何的一個行政政策他沒有他的KPI所以這句話本席給予你否定所以全世界正在想台灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下\n\n02:57.682 --> 03:19.450\n肯定的說沒有辦法複製到底我們沒有辦法複製所以我們是非常耐心的但是你今天要針對本席的提問到底你要到美國要去設立的這個產業園區規模有多大你們預估會有多少廠家他對台灣的衝擊是什麼投資金額是什麼\n\n03:22.811 --> 03:45.756\n我刚刚被委员否定的就是说当初的科学园区也是小小的园区到今天这么大我们现在到美国去如果大家会成立一个园区我的重点你还没有讲出来什么小小的新竹科学园区我们的园区是一个服务园区我们是一个服务的园区服务国内的厂商为主请问你现在要\n\n03:46.776 --> 04:01.550\n所說的沒有是不是就是沒有五五分是不是沒有五五分沒有五五分好那接下來本下請問我們所要創立的模式那它的規模有多大它的總投資額到底是有多少妳是說廠商投資的還是妳剛剛說的園區\n\n04:04.472 --> 04:22.343\n廠商投資嗎你現在所謂沒有五五分嘛那你說我們有一個模式跟等於是plant一個計畫嘛你要設立了一個科研園區嘛包括台積公司跟其他的廠商他們要到美國去設廠這是一個全球佈局的過程\n\n04:23.524 --> 04:48.883\n政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的那你的規模有多大那是廠商自己決定啊產業自己決定啊當然是要跟廠商參詳嘛但是你政府竟然提出你一定有你的計畫內容啊你不可能你沒有計畫嘛你也不可能沒有額度嘛你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛院長我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去\n\n04:50.423 --> 05:10.501\n廠商要做支援球的布局我們都同意啊你這麼說讓民眾更加的摩薩薩本席希望你好好去討論因為到談判到現在我們到底我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼我們現在看到的成果就是奉送1650億美元\n\n05:12.503 --> 05:38.096\n去投資台積電在美國而且美方一直要加碼還好你的說沒有55分所以本期要告訴你到目前為止你的談判到目前為止告訴我們最近期告訴我們我們沒有55分我們有所謂的產業科研區希望要設立那當然你一定有你的\n\n05:38.816 --> 06:05.275\n內容方向產業別關鍵技術是什麼本席希望你好好的去討論你現在沒有辦法回答本席我本席希望民眾希望要能夠有所本的了解他才不會恐慌產業也希望有所本的了解才不會恐慌所以本席希望你好好的去討論到底對我們台灣的產業是衝擊正面或者是負面民眾\n\n06:06.636 --> 06:30.448\n有這個權利之道政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾院長對不對這個園區如果這樣來成立是要服務我們的廠商去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得而且要有生活的機能而且要提高他的競爭力有嘛你本來就有規劃嘛你連生活機能都講了嘛所以你必須要讓民眾去了解所以本身要告訴你\n\n06:31.568 --> 06:57.020\n我們也不要只有內宣外宣我們要真正的實務也不要只有話術因為產業就是產業本席也最支持我們的產業所以本席一個具體建議也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做你們可以說的要告訴民眾而且不要讓民眾到現在整個談判我們是姆薩薩的因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電還要再不夠\n\n06:57.660 --> 07:00.042\n我們剛講過談判的原則就是以國家的利益產業的利益\n\n07:20.442 --> 07:40.255\n國人的健康跟糧食安全終於有一個共識以國家的利益以產業的權益跟產業的穩定性以及就業率這個是我們很重要所以你必須有這個責任要將剛剛我們所討論的要能夠讓民眾來瞭解接下來本席要請教我們今天討論的這個議題重點\n\n07:42.757 --> 07:58.402\n也要對你們肯定的是說你們最後終於願意面對民意站在在野黨的這個建議從善的去終於要普發先進一萬元所以民眾很期待本期要請教\n\n07:59.963 --> 08:24.674\n因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力以及我們整個振興經濟在新加坡在其他國家都已經在做所以我們終於我也肯定你們終於聽到民意願意這麼做所以請教如果說我們現在預算進來如果在10月中就完成請教院長什麼時候會發放正式發放請說明\n\n08:26.155 --> 08:39.687\n依照特別條例的規定是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放所以如果我們現在大家我想藍綠白大家都支持了行政院也支持了我也非常謝謝那所以本市要還是說\n\n08:42.042 --> 09:10.432\n月中的時候如果通過你們必須要重塑而且公平的有效的這個方式趕快來發放是不是如此的方向是準備工作請部長再說明重點預計什麼時候會發跟委員報告你本來通過之後你什麼時候會發太平一算通過以後總統公布一個月以內一定發放那我們一定會把時間縮短盡快那目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中更多的包含系統\n\n09:11.312 --> 09:39.789\n還有ATM也可以領其實我們跟委員報告上一次的分析結果大家到網站去登記入帳的大概占了差不多接近五成剩下另外還有很大一個部分是ATM這兩個部分一定要好好的做讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到還有一個就是我們直接發放照冊直接發放這個部分的清澈都要持續的核對因為有很多民眾同步進行所以我們會用最快的速度盡快的來辦\n\n09:40.669 --> 09:53.183\n速度那個那個院長那麼我們是不是可以這麼解讀十月底就大概可以進行發放的工作因為現在同步進行如果當然一切順利的話馬上就可以發放\n\n09:55.666 --> 10:22.666\n這個非常好終於藍綠白行政院院計大家都同意也就是幫助緩解物價高的壓力以及振興我們國內產業的一個刺激這個對我們小商店街來講是非常非常的重要所以就成為院長所說的儘快來放我們的解讀是在10月底就可以來做放我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序趕快同步進行去\n\n10:23.487 --> 10:24.188\n延末成功\n\n10:53.707 --> 11:07.869\n都是編列特別預算為基準那等於也是加重我們的財務的一個負擔的負債那多數你特別預算就會排除到什麼法呢排除到這個預算法排除到公共債務法排除到這個財政紀律\n\n11:09.511 --> 11:32.951\n等這個規範因為是特別所以會排除到這些我們看到到目前累計的特別預算的這個部分舉債是3.4兆已經高於我們年度最高的3.1兆的總預算如果持續的以這種方式來控管債務的一個流量如果以這種方式就走旁門\n\n11:34.132 --> 11:58.377\n來控管債務的這個流量管制那可能也會持續的增加整個公共債務的一個攀升那所以呢預算中心也特別提到了中華政府每一年你以公共債務一年以上你的公共債務沒有還的有多少呢有5兆多那換句話說平均值每一個人的負債就是剛才本市所說的是這個25.6萬\n\n12:01.238 --> 12:20.632\n在這樣如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬然後不再增加公共債務的情況之下那你115年明年度你還債的還本是多少呢是1265億元如果以這樣的基準數來計算那等於要46年才可以還得完\n\n12:21.552 --> 12:37.098\n那個院長所以本席要告訴你待會跟你回答本席要告訴你我們的特別預算裡頭的項目你有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊喔比如說我們的弱勢關懷老弱補助啊我們有增加項目跟內容啊\n\n12:37.898 --> 12:52.924\n對獨居老人項目你先不要緊張本席告訴你中低收入戶還有支通的部分這個在公務預算裡頭都有那是不是有重疊本席具體告訴你因為這一次的舉債是1056億元\n\n12:55.845 --> 13:16.568\n那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下你們是不是在去盤點如果有重複的務必要拿掉因為都是人民的納稅錢所以本席要說的是你如果沒有辦法去改變這樣的方式那你的財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢所以本席要請教院長\n\n13:17.549 --> 13:40.664\n在這樣的數字當然是很沉重你們除了編列特別預算之外來避開整個公共債務的一個流量管制還有沒有其他的財源來源可以能夠生財出來剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們盡快發放現金第二段的時候你又說我們舉債過多\n\n13:43.052 --> 14:04.646\n院長您身為院長我是蠻尊重你你這樣講我又要給你負分喔我們的舉債是這個樣子來的啊我們現金是超徵稅收啊跟這個預算是不在的啊對不對你這四年超徵的這麼多是拿這個來算所以當我們在質詢的時候我們希望見到的是院長你的政策\n\n14:07.828 --> 14:22.011\n是希望聽到你的政策院長我們是有遵守財政紀律而且所有的舉債沒有去違背公債法還有財政紀律法都是管控而債務的計算不是用這個本席要問院長謝謝你謝謝實現了關係本席請問院長舉債跟還款在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面你們的計畫是什麼\n\n14:33.726 --> 15:02.242\n如果依照現在還款你要46年才可以還得完不再舉債喔所以本席具體請教我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的還完債務而且我們還增加還債除了預算數之外我們還增加還債對差不多依照本席希望聽到你的答案就是舉債跟還款的計畫我希望你一份書面資料給本席那沒問題好不好我再問院長可以嗎\n\n15:02.702 --> 15:24.767\n院長多久時間可以給本席這個都是公開而且正確的說明多久時間可以給本席這個財政部馬上可以提供這有現存馬上給本席本席就希望你在取債跟還款的時候你要冷靜的有政策才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平等好的好謝謝楊瓊瑜委員質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝報案院會\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.029,"end":0.229,"text":"麻煩再請卓院長備選"},{"start":18.524,"end":39.076,"text":"院長好 坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠 還要再送一個產業科技園區這個聲音出來 政府絕對有這個責任 要讓民眾去清楚 讓產業去了解 這非常重要"},{"start":40.237,"end":60.208,"text":"當然我們看到目前為止所謂提出的在我們剛開始的時候還沒有談判台積電雙手奉餘1650億美元的一個投資開始談判之後美方一直要求必須加碼 加碼 加碼這個是我們聽到的訊息"},{"start":61.636,"end":89.044,"text":"到目前為止當然我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分沒有所謂的五五分所以大家瞪大了眼睛看既然沒有所謂的五五分除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦政府說我們有一個模式我們要做一個產業科技人區所以在這樣的情況之下本席首先要請教"},{"start":89.964,"end":112.438,"text":"我們既然有談判組已經提出了這樣的論述那我本行要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾產業民眾怎麼生活 產業怎麼去鏈接所以要請教 首先要請教到底你這個產業園區 你的規模有多大"},{"start":113.158,"end":134.155,"text":"你到底要投資多少金額到底你關鍵的技術有哪些你會過去到底有多少的廠家會過去請教好 謝謝委員這是一個非常好的引申的問題我們先看台灣過去我們幾十年前設立的我們的科學園區"},{"start":135.555,"end":151.836,"text":"我們到今天有各地好多的園區都出現了全球都在想台灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式他們都很想複製當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候你到今天也不知道今天會這麼大這麼多廠商這麼多投資這麼多營業"},{"start":156.375,"end":176.302,"text":"因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景他們按部就班逐步達成不可能一個政府在設立任何的一個行政政策他沒有他的KPI所以這句話本席給予你否定所以全世界正在想台灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下"},{"start":177.682,"end":199.45,"text":"肯定的說沒有辦法複製到底我們沒有辦法複製所以我們是非常耐心的但是你今天要針對本席的提問到底你要到美國要去設立的這個產業園區規模有多大你們預估會有多少廠家他對台灣的衝擊是什麼投資金額是什麼"},{"start":202.811,"end":225.756,"text":"我刚刚被委员否定的就是说当初的科学园区也是小小的园区到今天这么大我们现在到美国去如果大家会成立一个园区我的重点你还没有讲出来什么小小的新竹科学园区我们的园区是一个服务园区我们是一个服务的园区服务国内的厂商为主请问你现在要"},{"start":226.776,"end":241.55,"text":"所說的沒有 是不是就是沒有五五分是不是沒有五五分沒有五五分 好那接下來本下請問我們所要創立的模式那它的規模有多大它的總投資額到底是有多少妳是說廠商投資的還是妳剛剛說的園區"},{"start":244.472,"end":262.343,"text":"廠商投資嗎你現在所謂沒有五五分嘛那你說我們有一個模式跟等於是plant一個計畫嘛你要設立了一個科研園區嘛包括台積公司跟其他的廠商他們要到美國去設廠這是一個全球佈局的過程"},{"start":263.524,"end":288.883,"text":"政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的那你的規模有多大那是廠商自己決定啊產業自己決定啊當然是要跟廠商參詳嘛但是你政府竟然提出你一定有你的計畫內容啊你不可能你沒有計畫嘛你也不可能沒有額度嘛你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛院長我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去"},{"start":290.423,"end":310.501,"text":"廠商要做支援球的布局 我們都同意啊你這麼說 讓民眾更加的摩薩薩本席希望 你好好去討論因為到談判到現在我們到底 我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼我們現在看到的成果就是奉送1650億美元"},{"start":312.503,"end":338.096,"text":"去投資台積電在美國而且美方一直要加碼還好你的說沒有55分所以本期要告訴你到目前為止你的談判到目前為止告訴我們 最近期告訴我們我們沒有55分我們有所謂的產業科研區希望要設立那當然你一定有你的"},{"start":338.816,"end":365.275,"text":"內容方向產業別關鍵技術是什麼本席希望你好好的去討論你現在沒有辦法回答本席我本席希望民眾希望要能夠有所本的了解他才不會恐慌產業也希望有所本的了解才不會恐慌所以本席希望你好好的去討論到底對我們台灣的產業是衝擊正面或者是負面民眾"},{"start":366.636,"end":390.448,"text":"有這個權利之道政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾院長對不對這個園區如果這樣來成立是要服務我們的廠商去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得而且要有生活的機能而且要提高他的競爭力有嘛 你本來就有規劃嘛你連生活機能都講了嘛所以你必須要讓民眾去了解所以本身要告訴你"},{"start":391.568,"end":417.02,"text":"我們也不要只有內宣外宣我們要真正的實務也不要只有話術因為產業就是產業本席也最支持我們的產業所以本席一個具體建議也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做你們可以說的要告訴民眾而且不要讓民眾到現在整個談判我們是姆薩薩的因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電還要再不夠"},{"start":417.66,"end":420.042,"text":"我們剛講過 談判的原則就是以國家的利益 產業的利益"},{"start":440.442,"end":460.255,"text":"國人的健康跟糧食安全終於有一個共識以國家的利益 以產業的權益跟產業的穩定性以及就業率這個是我們很重要所以你必須有這個責任要將剛剛我們所討論的要能夠讓民眾來瞭解接下來本席要請教我們今天討論的這個議題重點"},{"start":462.757,"end":478.402,"text":"也要對你們肯定的是說你們最後終於願意面對民意站在在野黨的這個建議從善的去終於要普發先進一萬元所以民眾很期待本期要請教"},{"start":479.963,"end":504.674,"text":"因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力以及我們整個振興經濟在新加坡在其他國家都已經在做所以我們終於我也肯定你們終於聽到民意願意這麼做所以請教如果說我們現在預算進來如果在10月中就完成請教院長什麼時候會發放正式發放請說明"},{"start":506.155,"end":519.687,"text":"依照特別條例的規定是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放所以如果我們現在大家我想藍綠白大家都支持了行政院也支持了我也非常謝謝那所以本市要還是說"},{"start":522.042,"end":550.432,"text":"月中的時候如果通過你們必須要重塑而且公平的有效的這個方式趕快來發放是不是如此的方向是 準備工作請部長再說明重點預計什麼時候會發跟委員報告你本來通過之後你什麼時候會發太平一算通過以後總統公布一個月以內一定發放那我們一定會把時間縮短盡快那目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中更多的包含系統"},{"start":551.312,"end":579.789,"text":"還有ATM也可以領其實我們跟委員報告上一次的分析結果大家到網站去登記入帳的大概占了差不多接近五成剩下另外還有很大一個部分是ATM這兩個部分一定要好好的做讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到還有一個就是我們直接發放照冊直接發放這個部分的清澈都要持續的核對因為有很多民眾同步進行所以我們會用最快的速度盡快的來辦"},{"start":580.669,"end":593.183,"text":"速度那個那個院長那麼我們是不是可以這麼解讀十月底就大概可以進行發放的工作因為現在同步進行如果當然一切順利的話馬上就可以發放"},{"start":595.666,"end":622.666,"text":"這個非常好 終於藍綠白行政院院計大家都同意也就是幫助緩解物價高的壓力以及振興我們國內產業的一個刺激這個對我們小商店街來講是非常非常的重要所以就成為院長所說的 儘快來放我們的解讀是在10月底就可以來做放我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序趕快同步進行去"},{"start":623.487,"end":624.188,"text":"延末成功"},{"start":653.707,"end":667.869,"text":"都是編列特別預算為基準那等於也是加重我們的財務的一個負擔的負債那多數你特別預算就會排除到什麼法呢排除到這個預算法排除到公共債務法排除到這個財政紀律"},{"start":669.511,"end":692.951,"text":"等這個規範 因為是特別所以會排除到這些我們看到到目前累計的特別預算的這個部分舉債是3.4兆已經高於我們年度最高的3.1兆的總預算如果持續的以這種方式來控管債務的一個流量如果以這種方式就走旁門"},{"start":694.132,"end":718.377,"text":"來控管債務的這個流量管制那可能也會持續的增加整個公共債務的一個攀升那所以呢預算中心也特別提到了中華政府每一年你以公共債務一年以上你的公共債務沒有還的有多少呢有5兆多那換句話說平均值每一個人的負債就是剛才本市所說的是這個25.6萬"},{"start":721.238,"end":740.632,"text":"在這樣如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬然後不再增加公共債務的情況之下那你115年明年度你還債的還本是多少呢是1265億元如果以這樣的基準數來計算那等於要46年才可以還得完"},{"start":741.552,"end":757.098,"text":"那個院長所以本席要告訴你待會跟你回答本席要告訴你我們的特別預算裡頭的項目你有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊喔比如說我們的弱勢關懷老弱補助啊我們有增加項目跟內容啊"},{"start":757.898,"end":772.924,"text":"對 獨居老人項目你先不要緊張本席告訴你中低收入戶還有支通的部分這個在公務預算裡頭都有那是不是有重疊本席具體告訴你因為這一次的舉債是1056億元"},{"start":775.845,"end":796.568,"text":"那如果是這樣子的一個情況之下你們是不是在去盤點如果有重複的務必要拿掉因為都是人民的納稅錢所以本席要說的是你如果沒有辦法去改變這樣的方式那你的財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢所以本席要請教院長"},{"start":797.549,"end":820.664,"text":"在這樣的數字當然是很沉重你們除了編列特別預算之外來避開整個公共債務的一個流量管制還有沒有其他的財源來源可以能夠生財出來剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們盡快發放現金第二段的時候你又說我們舉債過多"},{"start":823.052,"end":844.646,"text":"院長 您身為院長我是蠻尊重你你這樣講我又要給你負分喔我們的舉債是這個樣子來的啊我們現金是超徵稅收啊跟這個預算是不在的啊對不對 你這四年超徵的這麼多是拿這個來算所以當我們在質詢的時候我們希望見到的是院長 你的政策"},{"start":847.828,"end":862.011,"text":"是希望聽到你的政策 院長我們是有遵守財政紀律而且所有的舉債沒有去違背公債法還有財政紀律法 都是管控而債務的計算不是用這個本席要問院長 謝謝你謝謝 實現了關係本席請問院長舉債跟還款在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面你們的計畫是什麼"},{"start":873.726,"end":902.242,"text":"如果依照現在還款你要46年才可以還得完不再舉債喔所以本席具體請教我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的還完債務而且我們還增加還債除了預算數之外我們還增加還債對 差不多依照本席希望聽到你的答案就是舉債跟還款的計畫我希望你一份書面資料給本席那沒問題 好不好我再問院長 可以嗎"},{"start":902.702,"end":924.767,"text":"院長 多久時間可以給本席這個都是公開而且正確的說明多久時間可以給本席這個財政部馬上可以提供這有現存馬上給本席本席就希望你在取債跟還款的時候你要冷靜的有政策才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平等好的好 謝謝楊瓊瑜委員質詢謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝報案院會"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":757,"blocks":[["楊委員瓊瓔：（11時15分）謝謝院會主席韓院長，以及行政院卓院長所領軍的團隊、各位同仁、新聞界的朋友、各位親愛的國人，楊瓊瓔發言，首先邀請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：楊委員好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長好。坊間有一個聲音說我們搬走了一個台積電還不夠，還要再送一個產業科技園區，這個聲音出來，政府絕對有責任讓民眾清楚、讓產業去了解，這非常重要。當然我們看到在剛開始還沒有談判的時候，台積電雙手奉上1,650億美元的投資，開始談判之後，美方一直要求必須加碼，這是我們聽到的訊息，到目前為止，我們看到談判小組團隊說沒有所謂的五五分，既然沒有所謂的五五分，所以大家除了瞪大眼睛還豎著耳朵聽政府要帶領我們怎麼辦。政府說我們有一個模式，要做一個產業科技園區，在這樣的情況之下，本席首先要請教，既然談判小組已經提出了這樣的論述，本席要代表民眾來聽聽行政院到底要帶我們民眾怎麼生活、產業怎麼去鏈結。首先要請教到底這個產業園區的規模有多大？到底要投資多少金額？到底有哪些關鍵技術會過去？到底有多少廠家會過去？"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員，這是一個非常好的引申的問題，我們先看臺灣，幾十年前我們設立了科學園區，到今天各地有好多的園區都出現了，全球都在想臺灣為什麼會有這樣的園區設立的模式，他們都很想複製。當初我們設新竹科學園區的時候也不知道今天會這麼大，有這麼多廠商、這麼多投資、這麼多營業，所以……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：不會不知道，因為當初設立的人就是有這個願景，他們按部就班逐步達成，不可能一個政府在制訂任何政策時沒有它的KPI。"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以對你這句話本席給予否定。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請繼續說。"],["卓院長榮泰：所以在全世界正在想臺灣這種成功的模式能不能複製的情況之下，我們很肯定的說，沒有辦法複製！沒有辦法複製！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要請教，沒有辦法複製，所以我們是非常nice的……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是成立一個園區……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：但是你今天要針對本席的提問，到底你要到美國去設立的產業園區規模有多大？你們預估會有多少廠家？它對臺灣的衝擊是什麼？投資金額是多少？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：我剛剛被委員否定的就是，當初的科學園區也是小小的園區，到今天這麼大，我們現在到美國去，如果大家會成立一個園區……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，您身為院長……"],["卓院長榮泰：我的重點還沒講出來。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對主題，什麼小小的新竹科園區？我再次給你否定。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的園區是一個服務園區……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請針對本席的提問回答。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是一個服務的園區，以服務國內的廠商為主。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問現在是不是沒有五五分？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有五五分。"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有五五分啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：沒有五五分，好。那接下來本席要請問，我們所要創立的模式，那它的規模有多大？它的總投資額到底是有多少？它的廠家有多少？"],["卓院長榮泰：你是說廠商投資的，還是你剛剛說的園區？廠商投資嗎？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你現在所謂的沒有五五分嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你說我們有一個模式跟……等於是一個計畫，你要設立了一個產業科園區嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：包括台積公司跟其他的廠商，他們要到美國去設廠，這是一個全球布局的過程，政府是鼓勵而且可以協助的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那你的規模有多大？"],["卓院長榮泰：那是廠商自己決定！產業自己決定，不是政府……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然是要跟廠商商量，但是你政府既然提出，你一定有你的計畫內容啊！不可能你沒有計畫嘛！你也不可能沒有額度……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是我們不能……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你也不可能沒有他的項目別嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有、沒有……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不能跟廠商指定說你在什麼時候投資多少錢到哪裡去，但是廠商要做全球的布局，我們都同意。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這麼說，讓民眾更加「霧煞煞」，本席希望你好好去討論，因為談判到現在，我們政府談判的策略到底是什麼？我們現在所看到的成果，就是奉送1,650億美元去投資台積電、在美國。"],["卓院長榮泰：那不是奉送。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，那不是奉送。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且美方一直要加碼……"],["卓院長榮泰：那怎麼會是奉送呢？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：還好你們說沒有五五分。"],["龔部長明鑫：台積電在那邊他是有訂單，他會賺錢的。"],["卓院長榮泰：廠商去設一個廠，怎麼會是奉送呢？"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席要告訴你，你的談判到目前為止，最近期的，告訴我們，我們沒有五五分，我們有所謂的產業科學園區，希望要設立，那當然你一定有你的內容方向，產業別、關鍵技術是什麼？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席希望你好好去討論，你現在沒有辦法回答本席，本席希望、民眾希望要能夠有所本地了解，他才不會恐慌，產業也希望有所本地了解才不會恐慌。所以本席希望你好好去討論，到底對我們臺灣的產業是衝擊、正面或者是負面，民眾有這個權利知道，政府更有這個義務要告訴民眾。院長，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個園區如果這樣子成立，是要服務我們的廠商，去那邊土地還有各方面的條件都能夠取得，要有生活機能，而且要提高他的競爭力，是服務我們的廠商。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：有嘛！你本來就有規劃，你連生活機能都講了，所以你必須要讓民眾去了解。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個是一步一步完成的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要告訴你，我們也不要只有內宣、外宣，我們要真正的實務，也不要只有話術，因為產業就是產業。本席也最支持我們的產業，所以本席提一個具體建議，也就是到底你們現在要怎麼做，你們可以說的要告訴民眾，而且不要讓民眾到現在就整個談判都是「霧煞煞」的，因為我們不希望說送了一個台積電不夠，還要再搬一個科技產業園區。"],["卓院長榮泰：不是送。"],["龔部長明鑫：那個不是送。"],["卓院長榮泰：你不能用這樣的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：那到底……"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，你不能用「送一個台積電」，不是。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，你不願意說「送」，但是……"],["卓院長榮泰：是台積公司自己去設廠。"],["龔部長明鑫：那是全球布局、一部分……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席希望要以臺灣的產業能夠穩定……"],["卓院長榮泰：那當然。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：當然，立足臺灣是第一要件。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，是不是如此？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們剛剛講過，談判的原則就是以國家的利益、產業的利益、國人的健康跟糧食安全……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：好，終於有一個共識，以國家的利益，以產業的權益……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：跟產業的穩定性以及就業率。"],["龔部長明鑫：是的、是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：這個是我們很重要的，所以你必須有這個責任，將剛剛我們所討論的，要能夠讓民眾了解。"],["龔部長明鑫：是的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：接下來本席要請教，我們今天討論的這個議題，重點在於，也要對你們肯定的是，你們最後終於願意面對民意，站在在野黨的這個建議從善地，終於要普發現金1萬元，所以民眾很期待。本席要請教，因為針對於緩解物價高的壓力，以及我們整個振興經濟，新加坡、其他國家都已經在做，所以我也肯定你們終於聽到民意、願意這麼做，所以請教我們現在預算進來，如果在10月中完成，那請教院長什麼時候會正式發放？請說明。"],["卓院長榮泰：依照特別條例的規定，是在預算通過之後的一個月內會發放。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：現在我想藍、綠、白大家都支持了嘛！行政院也支持了，我也非常謝謝。所以本席還是說，月中的時候如果通過，你們必須要從速……"],["卓院長榮泰：會。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：而且以公平、有效的方式趕快發放，是不是如此的方向？"],["卓院長榮泰：是，有關準備工作，請部長再說明重點。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：預計什麼時候會發放？"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：立法院通過之後，你什麼時候會發放？"],["莊部長翠雲：特別預算通過以後，總統公布，一個月以內一定發放。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對、是！"],["莊部長翠雲：我們一定會把時間縮短、儘快，目前的前置作業都在積極進行當中，包含……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對！同步進行！"],["莊部長翠雲：包含系統，還有ATM也可以領。其實要跟委員報告，根據上一次的分析結果，大家到網站去登記、入帳的大概占了接近5成，另外還有很大一個部分是ATM，所以這兩個部分一定要好好地做，讓大部分的民眾用最方便的方式領到。還有一個就是造冊直接發放，這個部分的清冊都要持續核對，因為有很多民眾是……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以同步進行嘛！"],["莊部長翠雲：對，現在同步都在進行，我們會用最快的速度儘快來辦理。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：關於最快的速度，院長，我們是不是可以這麼解讀：10月底大概就可以進行發放的工作？因為現在在同步進行。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然，如果一切順利的話，馬上就可以發放。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：馬上就可以發放？好！這個非常好！終於藍綠白、行政院院際大家都同意，也就是幫助、緩解物價高的壓力，以及振興並刺激國內產業，這對我們的小店家來講是非常非常重要的。所以就誠如院長所說的儘快來發，我們的解讀是在10月底就可以發放。我們也勉勵相關單位所有的程序要趕快同步進行、研謀成功，謝謝！","接下來本席要跟你討論，今天政府舉債3.4兆，平均每一個人扛債25.6萬。一直有很多人對民進黨執政以來的特別預算有不一樣的論述，在這樣的情況之下，立法院預算中心也特別指出，107年度到113年度，公共債務的增加都是以編列特別預算為基準，等於也是加重我們的財務負擔。多數的特別預算都會排除預算法、公共債務法和財政紀律法的規範，因為它是特別預算嘛，所以會排除掉這些。我們看到，目前累計特別預算部分的舉債是3.4兆，已經高於年度總預算最高的3.1兆，如果持續以這種旁門左道的方式來控管債務流量，可能也會持續使整個公共債務攀升。預算中心也特別提到，中央政府一年以上公共債務未償餘額有五兆多，換句話說，平均每一個人的負債就是剛剛本席所說的25.6萬。如果以目前為止一個人25.6萬，同時不再增加公共債務的情況而言，明年度也就是115年度的債務還本是1,265億元。如果以這樣的基準數來計算，等於要46年才可以還得完。院長，所以本席要告訴你……"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，這個計算不是這樣子……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：待會兒給你回答。","本席要告訴院長，特別預算裡頭的項目有很多跟年度公務預算是相重疊的，比如說我們的弱勢關懷、老弱補助……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們有增加項目跟內容啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：對，獨居老人項目。","你先不要緊張，本席告訴你。包括中低收入戶，還有資通的部分，這個在公務預算裡頭都有，那是不是有重疊？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有，我們有增加。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席具體告訴你，因為這次舉債是1,056億元，如果是這樣的情況，你們是不是再去盤點？如果有重複的，務必要拿掉……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有重複、沒有重複。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：因為都是人民的納稅錢！所以本席要說的是，你如果沒有辦法改變這樣的方式，財政紀律怎麼可能會穩定呢？所以本席要請教院長，這樣的數字當然很沉重，你們除了編列特別預算來避開整個公共債務的流量管制，還有沒有其他財源可以生財？"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛委員在第一段的時候很鼓勵我們儘快發放現金，到了第二段的時候，又說我們舉債過多。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，您身為院長，我是滿尊重你，你這樣講……"],["卓院長榮泰：對啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這樣講，我又要給你負分了喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們的舉債就是這樣子來的啊！"],["楊委員瓊瓔：普發現金是超徵稅收，是不在這個預算的，對不對？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有超徵稅收，那個都在我們歲入的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：你這四年超徵了這麼多，是拿這個來算。"],["卓院長榮泰：請部長跟委員說明……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以當我們在質詢的時候，我們希望聽到的是院長你的政策……"],["卓院長榮泰：我們原來的特別預算是不用舉債的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我們希望聽到你的政策，院長。"],["莊部長翠雲：跟委員報告，我們是有遵守財政紀律，而且所有的舉債沒有違背公債法和財政紀律法，都在管控，而債務的計算不是跟這個……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：當然都是在……"],["莊部長翠雲：而且我們的債務事實上……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席要問院長，謝謝你。"],["莊部長翠雲：在世界上是非常優等的，我們的財政政策是這樣的。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：時間的關係，本席要請問院長，舉債跟還款……"],["卓院長榮泰：都必須。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：在剛剛本席所講的一個基礎面，你們的計畫是什麼？如果依照現在還款，你要46年才可以還得完，不再舉債喔。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們每年都照我們的……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：所以本席具體請教，你也給本席書面資料。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們每年在預算裡面都有法定的償還債務。"],["莊部長翠雲：而且我們還增加還債，除了預算數之外，我們還增加債務……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我跟院長在談話。"],["莊部長翠雲：都超過1兆了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：院長，本席希望聽到你的答案。"],["卓院長榮泰：現在已經還款增加了。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：就是舉債跟還款的計畫……"],["莊部長翠雲：都有在做。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我希望你提供一份書面資料給本席，好不好？"],["莊部長翠雲：沒問題，可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：我在問院長，可以嗎？院長。"],["卓院長榮泰：當然可以。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：多久時間可以給本席？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個都是公開而且正確的數字。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：請問多久時間可以給本席？"],["卓院長榮泰：這個財政部馬上可以提供。"],["莊部長翠雲：可以啊！我們可以提供。"],["卓院長榮泰：這有現成……"],["楊委員瓊瓔：馬上給本席。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["楊委員瓊瓔：本席也就是希望你在舉債跟還款的時候，你要冷靜的、有政策，才能夠達到財政紀律的一個平衡。"],["卓院長榮泰：好的。"],["主席：謝謝楊瓊瓔委員質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，在議場二樓旁聽的是來自花蓮汎札徠獅子會的好朋友們，我們海內外都很關心花蓮鄉親，我們掌聲歡迎各位到來。","接下來休息10分鐘之後，請林憶君委員質詢，現在休息。","休息（11時31分）","繼續開會（11時42分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}}