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{\"word\": \"耕\", \"start\": 914.117, \"end\": 914.297, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 914.297, \"end\": 914.517, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"到\", \"start\": 914.517, \"end\": 914.958, \"score\": 0.921}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 914.958, \"end\": 914.978, \"score\": 0.912}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 926.832, \"end\": 927.092, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"莊\"}, {\"word\": \"瑞\", \"start\": 927.092, \"end\": 927.252, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"雄\", \"start\": 927.252, \"end\": 927.472, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 927.472, \"end\": 927.653, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"質\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"卓\", \"start\": 927.653, \"end\": 927.853, \"score\": 0.9}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 927.853, \"end\": 928.073, \"score\": 0.907}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 928.073, \"end\": 928.333, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 928.333, \"end\": 928.613, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 928.613, \"end\": 928.633, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"備\"}, {\"word\": \"詢\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:01,810 --> 00:00:30,407\n我們財政部總部長麻煩請財政部長備詢經濟部工部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢鄧委員好院長好辛苦我想幾個問題要來就教院長就是說你上任到現在我們也一直聽到院長一直提到說加強台灣的韌性尤其是產業的一個韌性要強化國安跟經濟安全經濟部也編列了將近\n\n2\n00:00:32,289 --> 00:00:48,499\n460億的任性的特別預算其中本席去看到提升產業的競爭力開拓多元市場還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項的一個措施這四項措施裡面讓本席想到了就是說很符合\n\n3\n00:00:49,420 --> 00:01:17,051\n台灣的汽車產業的一個需要那我想我這邊要來跟院長或者兩位部長來做一些現況的一個描述現在台灣的整個汽車產業高稅制它其實對消費者產生很大很大的一個不公平那還有外銷我們也因為競爭力不足其實沒有辦法去打開\n\n4\n00:01:18,291 --> 00:01:44,422\n那我們即便這一次的特別條例上限把它拉到五千七百億甚至每一個人發放一萬塊來希望來刺激這樣的一個消費坦白講一萬塊對於汽車產業來講就賣不夠了那我本期要提出來就是說我先讓院長跟兩位部長來看一下這三家國產的這家三家外面車型不一樣內裝都國產的這第一張\n\n5\n00:01:47,062 --> 00:02:04,498\n第二張來看第二張第二張來再往下這個三個都是國產的然後第二張看起來就比較胖胖的兩張呈現出來其實它就是它這個價位都一樣\n\n6\n00:02:05,852 --> 00:02:22,594\n價位都一樣就是我們長期我們用台灣的汽車的一個真實的一個困境就是說我們用高稅額去保護我們的國產車的一個市場得到的是呢進口車你就必須要被課重稅\n\n7\n00:02:23,715 --> 00:02:41,587\n然後呢我們的國產車呢我也不敢說它的品質落後但是相對去做比較從安全科技甚至於內裝材料啊跟其他的進口車來比較的話可是有時候我們有輸人擔保啦那尤其呢在九月三十號幾天前而已嘛三天前而已\n\n8\n00:02:46,688 --> 00:02:55,896\n國產車的商用貨車在台灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星我們撞擊測試零顆星是從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了一萬一千台\n\n9\n00:03:07,864 --> 00:03:37,014\n本期要講的就是說撞出史上零顆星車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準安全無疑那國產的轎車在6月26號台灣撞擊測試裡面是三顆星可是相對相對在於其他你說中國也好或者說韓國的跟我們同等級的車也好用歐盟的規格撞擊測試人家五顆星\n\n10\n00:03:37,694 --> 00:03:53,668\n所以我覺得本席就非常感慨的就是說我們用這樣的一個高關稅的一個保護我們卻沒有換來我們的國際上的一個競爭力部長莊部長我們現在進口車稅率幾%17.5%進口車的關稅是17.5%日本0%歐盟呢\n\n11\n00:04:06,161 --> 00:04:14,130\n你看看歐盟這裡跟中國15%歐盟10%美國2.5%那我們這麼高的稅率這樣還不打緊喔我們17.5%完以後我們還加一個25%的貨物稅\n\n12\n00:04:24,691 --> 00:04:42,070\n當然什麼樣的一個考量我們當年這幾十年來我們為了保護了整個我們國產車可是保護到最後這樣子很可惜本席要講的就是說你像譬如說未來的汽車它其實都是電動化還有智慧化而且我們的強項\n\n13\n00:04:43,391 --> 00:05:10,957\n半導體也我們的強項電池管理也我們的強項晶片也我們的強項那是不是我們國家的汽車產業的政策應該來做一個轉變資源如何去做整合你如果說像過去幾十年我們在做汽車的輸人技術打造精密的我們輸假設我們都輸那國際市場我們就沒辦法出去可是接下來整個汽車它就是一個就是像一部行動電腦一樣\n\n14\n00:05:13,052 --> 00:05:38,377\n晶片怎麼搞半導體怎麼搞電池關聯我們都世界一流那就沒有理由我們這汽車產業還必須要用高關稅升這個17.5%乘完以後再乘一個25%對消費者來講第一個不公平第二個我們的產業我們沒有辦法創出一個像我們科技產業一樣有一個國際上的一個大品牌\n\n15\n00:05:39,667 --> 00:05:53,946\n我不曉得部長你的看法或者院長你的看法能夠補充一下嗎先跟委員報告這個2000cc以下的小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了第一個太舊換新可以減徵5萬不是另外還可以新購的話\n\n16\n00:05:54,867 --> 00:06:21,860\n也可以減5萬所以如果是太舊換新購買新車的話是可以減10萬另外就是電動車全電動車的話它是貨物稅是0%然後使用牌照稅也是0%這兩個都沒有其實就有就是鼓勵我們民眾導向電動車以及產業能夠在這個部分鼓勵往電動車來做發展這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了那貨物稅不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用\n\n17\n00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:50,376\n是我的意思就是說國產車基本上它是有分成就是說國內的品牌另外一種就是像和泰它是帶TOYOTA的所以那個母公司還是在日本但是它還是算國產車然後這些國產車包括和泰他們總共加起來還有零組件事實上就業人數還是有二三十萬人\n\n18\n00:06:50,896 --> 00:06:53,438\n所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候其實我們就是針對這樣一個重點我們希望\n\n19\n00:07:06,745 --> 00:07:29,605\n過去採取高稅率保護的時代到現在來看我覺得那是不合時宜的過去是產業剛好萌芽剛好發展也需要能夠帶動國內的產業到現在為止國內產業陳如委員所說的我們在相當的領域當中很強了所以對汽車業的保護應該過去不一樣的眼光來看我們希望他能夠進入到國際市場甚至在國內就要\n\n20\n00:07:30,657 --> 00:07:30,937\n應該啊我們整個國家\n\n21\n00:07:51,618 --> 00:08:17,815\n我希望我們在我們左院長帶領的團隊裡面汽車產業因應整個現在的整個條件的一個變化我們的強項的那些應該整合資源然後創造出我們自己的國際的品牌每一行都會贏人還要跟這些人輸人漏氣兩位部長請回現在接下來是不是請我們請內政部的劉部長麻煩請內政部長備詢\n\n22\n00:08:23,071 --> 00:08:46,705\n我們今天一直在談這個韌性我一直在想我們這個韌性裡面我特別要提出來就是說糧食安全他其實是國土安全的一個基礎農民的一個權益更是社會韌性的一個底座土地的正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環台灣早期的\n\n23\n00:08:48,204 --> 00:09:06,590\n經濟的一個發展其實站在他背後是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民談任性其實這個部分才是台灣最重要要談的一個任性那我想戰後工地放領有三個階段就從早期\n\n24\n00:09:08,774 --> 00:09:22,039\n1951年到1976年配合耕地耕者有其田分9期去釋出了14萬甲的土地我們也培養出20萬個自耕農但是後來終止掉了這個很可惜了\n\n25\n00:09:22,898 --> 00:09:51,929\n那接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放你大家佛資格啊放靈你既然要放你國家收了那麼多土地回來了1989年的時候針對林場合作社實驗林個案然後又去做一個放你可是呢到了1994年到2002年的時候呢你要彌補這個停辦的不一致又開始去放你那我相信這些院長都很清楚了那\n\n26\n00:09:53,288 --> 00:10:18,830\n大家都知道中華民國政府到台灣他是沒有帶半片土地來的在清朝的時候哪有土地登記制度沒有土地登記制度是到了日本政府來殖民的時候開始去做土地調查去做土地調查的時候有些土地去登記了國民政府來了把日本人趕走了\n\n27\n00:10:21,204 --> 00:10:30,662\n趕走了以後接收了這麼多的日產然後在我們國民政府來以後實施土地總登記以前很多農民\n\n28\n00:10:31,664 --> 00:10:50,647\n你覺得我們公營一台、我們租運一台,不,太貴了啦那有什麼叫做登記然後第二個,228的陰影又在那政府既然都已經三階段了,符合條件了就是說我這些工地政府把你給收回來了就是要放零給農民耕者有其田\n\n29\n00:10:52,056 --> 00:11:12,990\n他知道我大地主或者韓院長在南東大地主我們一百甲我們上等田我們只有可以留下1.5甲然後其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走了收走了理由是說我要耕著有機田我要放寧給廣大的農民可是沒有啊政府就收走了你也沒有普遍去放寧啊\n\n30\n00:11:14,594 --> 00:11:31,561\n所以從當初收歸國有他就不正義你政府你把人家收走了然後你沒有放給農民第一個第二個同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作的有的人有工地方領導\n\n31\n00:11:33,487 --> 00:11:42,574\n西部的有南部的也有那有的縣市就跳過去花東又變成沒有全台灣我看公有地占最多89%將近98%的就是花東\n\n32\n00:11:46,502 --> 00:12:14,958\n山林嘛保安林嘛就占了一大堆嘛那是國有沒話講可是問題是說長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的然後過去政府也實施工地放領的政策到最後你因為九二一大地震因為桃枝颱風喊卡那剛好你認為我們現在大南澳不認為我們大南澳要去示範重啟嗎本席都認為第一個平等原則\n\n33\n00:12:16,260 --> 00:12:36,908\n大家都喊你內政部的資格資格是你內政部審核的嘛你如果審核通過以後怎麼他有怎麼那個縣市有屏東沒有台東沒有華聯沒有本席認為這個就不公平了所以呢以台東來看的話現在經過你內政部2004年核定的有\n\n34\n00:12:37,950 --> 00:12:40,915\n魏放寧的土地777筆787筆162公頃這是國產署的一個統計是不是剛好我們看到我們卓院長\n\n35\n00:12:51,001 --> 00:13:09,899\n你起來之後當然要領去示範啊那對其他的縣市是不是符合你政府自己所設定的標準比如說1976年你說啊你就達到你就長期在做耕種本來你1976年以前你就在耕作了我政府就是要放領給你的那因為什麼因素喊卡的\n\n36\n00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:28,602\n是不是應該藉著這個我要請部長或者院長來做一個比較明確的答覆好不好我先答覆一下這個委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下的問題我們現在如果能夠把它解決我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義尤其是委員所說的土地正義\n\n37\n00:13:29,383 --> 00:13:54,450\n關於大囊奧這件事情因為他過去你剛剛說過有幾個階段性他曾經在過去的這個處理當中同意過他放零後來因為原因停下來了所以我們現在認為如果這樣子把程序完成這是第一步第二部分就是還有沒有其他的也是有同樣條件的曾經同意過現在停下來我們全面再檢視一次第三個\n\n38\n00:13:55,598 --> 00:14:20,403\n要完全貫徹土地正義叫全面的檢討如果沒有涉及到國家安全沒有涉及到公共安全而且土地的所有權上現在沒有任何紛爭的那有歷史上的證明他應該可以釋放給現在使用的過去曾有使用證明的這些人我們願意做這樣的全面性的檢討那麼檢討的過程內政部財政部都要去做通例的一些盤點\n\n39\n00:14:21,443 --> 00:14:48,060\n跟做一些必要的一些攻擊對陣起來我們確定就是三個先後順序來做從大南澳縣市辦有同意過的我們比照可以來辦理另外全面性的檢討那所以說我剛剛部長我剛所提到的經過你按照院長的講法台東現在這777米這100多公頃內政部曾經同意過的我們就要去把它開啟了我在這個地方啊百分之一萬的來肯定啊我們整個總院長的一個團隊啊\n\n40\n00:14:49,381 --> 00:15:14,978\n這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債該還了啦這筆債你本來就該還啦你這樣那個台拓地你還有海埔新生地我大概都還沒講咧政府你鼓勵人家去開墾墾的以後是你的結果到最後政府說停這個這邊政府你一個政策去欺騙人農民辛辛苦苦去做一個耕作到現在\n\n41\n00:15:26,832 --> 00:15:28,633\n好謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n1810\t30407\t我們財政部總部長麻煩請財政部長備詢經濟部工部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢鄧委員好院長好 辛苦我想幾個問題要來就教院長就是說你上任到現在我們也一直聽到院長一直提到說加強台灣的韌性尤其是產業的一個韌性要強化國安跟經濟安全經濟部也編列了將近\n32289\t48499\t460億的任性的特別預算其中本席去看到提升產業的競爭力開拓多元市場還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項的一個措施這四項措施裡面讓本席想到了就是說很符合\n49420\t77051\t台灣的汽車產業的一個需要那我想我這邊要來跟院長或者兩位部長來做一些現況的一個描述現在台灣的整個汽車產業高稅制它其實對消費者產生很大很大的一個不公平那還有外銷我們也因為競爭力不足其實沒有辦法去打開\n78291\t104422\t那我們即便這一次的特別條例上限把它拉到五千七百億甚至每一個人發放一萬塊來希望來刺激這樣的一個消費坦白講一萬塊對於汽車產業來講就賣不夠了那我本期要提出來就是說我先讓院長跟兩位部長來看一下這三家國產的這家三家外面車型不一樣內裝都國產的這第一張\n107062\t124498\t第二張來看第二張第二張來再往下這個三個都是國產的然後第二張看起來就比較胖胖的兩張呈現出來其實它就是它這個價位都一樣\n125852\t142594\t價位都一樣就是我們長期我們用台灣的汽車的一個真實的一個困境就是說我們用高稅額去保護我們的國產車的一個市場得到的是呢進口車你就必須要被課重稅\n143715\t161587\t然後呢 我們的國產車呢 我也不敢說它的品質落後但是相對去做比較 從安全科技 甚至於內裝材料啊跟其他的進口車來比較的話 可是有時候我們有輸人擔保啦那尤其呢 在九月三十號 幾天前而已嘛 三天前而已\n166688\t175896\t國產車的商用貨車在台灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星我們撞擊測試零顆星是從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了一萬一千台\n187864\t217014\t本期要講的就是說撞出史上零顆星車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準安全無疑那國產的轎車在6月26號台灣撞擊測試裡面是三顆星可是相對相對在於其他你說中國也好或者說韓國的跟我們同等級的車也好用歐盟的規格撞擊測試人家五顆星\n217694\t233668\t所以我覺得本席就非常感慨的就是說我們用這樣的一個高關稅的一個保護我們卻沒有換來我們的國際上的一個競爭力部長 莊部長我們現在進口車稅率幾% 17.5%進口車的關稅是17.5%日本0%歐盟呢\n246161\t254130\t你看看歐盟這裡跟中國15%歐盟10%美國2.5%那我們這麼高的稅率這樣還不打緊喔我們17.5%完以後我們還加一個25%的貨物稅\n264691\t282070\t當然什麼樣的一個考量我們當年這幾十年來我們為了保護了整個我們國產車可是保護到最後這樣子很可惜本席要講的就是說你像譬如說未來的汽車它其實都是電動化還有智慧化而且我們的強項\n283391\t310957\t半導體也我們的強項電池管理也我們的強項晶片也我們的強項那是不是我們國家的汽車產業的政策應該來做一個轉變資源如何去做整合你如果說像過去幾十年我們在做汽車的輸人技術打造精密的我們輸假設我們都輸那國際市場我們就沒辦法出去可是接下來整個汽車它就是一個就是像一部行動電腦一樣\n313052\t338377\t晶片怎麼搞 半導體怎麼搞 電池關聯 我們都世界一流那就沒有理由我們這汽車產業還必須要用高關稅升這個17.5% 乘完以後再乘一個25%對消費者來講 第一個 不公平第二個 我們的產業 我們沒有辦法創出一個像我們科技產業一樣 有一個國際上的一個大品牌\n339667\t353946\t我不曉得部長你的看法 或者院長你的看法能夠補充一下嗎先跟委員報告這個2000cc以下的小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了第一個太舊換新可以減徵5萬不是另外還可以新購的話\n354867\t381860\t也可以減5萬所以如果是太舊換新購買新車的話是可以減10萬另外就是電動車全電動車的話它是貨物稅是0%然後使用牌照稅也是0%這兩個都沒有其實就有就是鼓勵我們民眾導向電動車以及產業能夠在這個部分鼓勵往電動車來做發展這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了那貨物稅不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用\n382680\t410376\t是 我的意思就是說國產車基本上它是有分成就是說國內的品牌另外一種就是像和泰它是帶TOYOTA的所以那個母公司還是在日本但是它還是算國產車然後這些國產車包括和泰他們總共加起來還有零組件事實上就業人數還是有二三十萬人\n410896\t413438\t所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候其實我們就是針對這樣一個重點我們希望\n426745\t449605\t過去採取高稅率保護的時代到現在來看我覺得那是不合時宜的過去是產業剛好萌芽剛好發展也需要能夠帶動國內的產業到現在為止國內產業陳如委員所說的我們在相當的領域當中很強了所以對汽車業的保護應該過去不一樣的眼光來看我們希望他能夠進入到國際市場甚至在國內就要\n450657\t450937\t應該啊 我們整個國家\n471618\t497815\t我希望我們在我們左院長帶領的團隊裡面汽車產業因應整個現在的整個條件的一個變化我們的強項的那些 應該整合資源然後創造出我們自己的國際的品牌每一行都會贏人 還要跟這些人輸人漏氣 兩位部長請回現在接下來是不是請我們請內政部的劉部長麻煩請內政部長備詢\n503071\t526705\t我們今天一直在談這個韌性我一直在想我們這個韌性裡面我特別要提出來就是說糧食安全他其實是國土安全的一個基礎農民的一個權益更是社會韌性的一個底座土地的正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環台灣早期的\n528204\t546590\t經濟的一個發展其實站在他背後是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民談任性其實這個部分才是台灣最重要要談的一個任性那我想戰後工地放領有三個階段就從早期\n548774\t562039\t1951年到1976年配合耕地耕者有其田分9期去釋出了14萬甲的土地我們也培養出20萬個自耕農但是後來終止掉了這個很可惜了\n562898\t591929\t那接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放你大家佛資格啊放靈你既然要放你國家收了那麼多土地回來了1989年的時候針對林場合作社實驗林個案然後又去做一個放你可是呢到了1994年到2002年的時候呢你要彌補這個停辦的不一致又開始去放你那我相信這些院長都很清楚了那\n593288\t618830\t大家都知道中華民國政府到台灣他是沒有帶半片土地來的在清朝的時候哪有土地登記制度沒有土地登記制度是到了日本政府來殖民的時候開始去做土地調查去做土地調查的時候有些土地去登記了國民政府來了把日本人趕走了\n621204\t630662\t趕走了以後接收了這麼多的日產然後在我們國民政府來以後實施土地總登記以前很多農民\n631664\t650647\t你覺得我們公營一台、我們租運一台,不,太貴了啦那有什麼叫做登記然後第二個,228的陰影又在那政府既然都已經三階段了,符合條件了就是說我這些工地政府把你給收回來了就是要放零給農民耕者有其田\n652056\t672990\t他知道我大地主或者韓院長在南東大地主我們一百甲我們上等田我們只有可以留下1.5甲然後其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走了收走了理由是說我要耕著有機田我要放寧給廣大的農民可是沒有啊政府就收走了你也沒有普遍去放寧啊\n674594\t691561\t所以從當初收歸國有他就不正義你政府你把人家收走了然後你沒有放給農民第一個第二個同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作的有的人有工地方領導\n693487\t702574\t西部的有南部的也有那有的縣市就跳過去花東又變成沒有全台灣我看公有地占最多89% 將近98%的就是花東\n706502\t734958\t山林嘛保安林嘛就占了一大堆嘛那是國有 沒話講可是問題是說長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的然後過去政府也實施工地放領的政策到最後你因為九二一大地震因為桃枝颱風喊卡那剛好你認為我們現在大南澳不認為我們大南澳要去示範重啟嗎本席都認為第一個 平等原則\n736260\t756908\t大家都喊你內政部的資格資格是你內政部審核的嘛你如果審核通過以後怎麼他有怎麼那個縣市有屏東沒有台東沒有華聯沒有本席認為這個就不公平了所以呢以台東來看的話現在經過你內政部2004年核定的有\n757950\t760915\t魏放寧的土地777筆787筆162公頃這是國產署的一個統計是不是剛好我們看到我們卓院長\n771001\t789899\t你起來之後 當然要領去示範啊那對其他的縣市 是不是符合你政府自己所設定的標準比如說1976年 你說啊 你就達到 你就長期在做耕種本來你1976年以前 你就在耕作了我政府就是要放領給你的那因為什麼因素 喊卡的\n790800\t808602\t是不是應該藉著這個我要請部長或者院長來做一個比較明確的答覆好不好我先答覆一下這個委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下的問題我們現在如果能夠把它解決我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義尤其是委員所說的土地正義\n809383\t834450\t關於大囊奧這件事情因為他過去你剛剛說過有幾個階段性他曾經在過去的這個處理當中同意過他放零後來因為原因停下來了所以我們現在認為如果這樣子把程序完成這是第一步第二部分就是還有沒有其他的也是有同樣條件的曾經同意過現在停下來我們全面再檢視一次第三個\n835598\t860403\t要完全貫徹土地正義叫全面的檢討如果沒有涉及到國家安全沒有涉及到公共安全而且土地的所有權上現在沒有任何紛爭的那有歷史上的證明他應該可以釋放給現在使用的過去曾有使用證明的這些人我們願意做這樣的全面性的檢討那麼檢討的過程內政部財政部都要去做通例的一些盤點\n861443\t888060\t跟做一些必要的一些攻擊對陣起來我們確定就是三個先後順序來做從大南澳縣市辦有同意過的我們比照可以來辦理另外全面性的檢討那所以說我剛剛部長我剛所提到的經過你按照院長的講法台東現在這777米這100多公頃內政部曾經同意過的我們就要去把它開啟了我在這個地方啊百分之一萬的來肯定啊我們整個總院長的一個團隊啊\n889381\t914978\t這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債該還了啦這筆債你本來就該還啦你這樣那個台拓地你還有海埔新生地我大概都還沒講咧政府你鼓勵人家去開墾墾的以後是你的結果到最後政府說停這個這邊政府你一個政策去欺騙人農民辛辛苦苦去做一個耕作到現在\n926832\t928633\t好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝\n","txt":"我們財政部總部長麻煩請財政部長備詢經濟部工部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢鄧委員好院長好 辛苦我想幾個問題要來就教院長就是說你上任到現在我們也一直聽到院長一直提到說加強台灣的韌性尤其是產業的一個韌性要強化國安跟經濟安全經濟部也編列了將近\n460億的任性的特別預算其中本席去看到提升產業的競爭力開拓多元市場還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項的一個措施這四項措施裡面讓本席想到了就是說很符合\n台灣的汽車產業的一個需要那我想我這邊要來跟院長或者兩位部長來做一些現況的一個描述現在台灣的整個汽車產業高稅制它其實對消費者產生很大很大的一個不公平那還有外銷我們也因為競爭力不足其實沒有辦法去打開\n那我們即便這一次的特別條例上限把它拉到五千七百億甚至每一個人發放一萬塊來希望來刺激這樣的一個消費坦白講一萬塊對於汽車產業來講就賣不夠了那我本期要提出來就是說我先讓院長跟兩位部長來看一下這三家國產的這家三家外面車型不一樣內裝都國產的這第一張\n第二張來看第二張第二張來再往下這個三個都是國產的然後第二張看起來就比較胖胖的兩張呈現出來其實它就是它這個價位都一樣\n價位都一樣就是我們長期我們用台灣的汽車的一個真實的一個困境就是說我們用高稅額去保護我們的國產車的一個市場得到的是呢進口車你就必須要被課重稅\n然後呢 我們的國產車呢 我也不敢說它的品質落後但是相對去做比較 從安全科技 甚至於內裝材料啊跟其他的進口車來比較的話 可是有時候我們有輸人擔保啦那尤其呢 在九月三十號 幾天前而已嘛 三天前而已\n國產車的商用貨車在台灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星我們撞擊測試零顆星是從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了一萬一千台\n本期要講的就是說撞出史上零顆星車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準安全無疑那國產的轎車在6月26號台灣撞擊測試裡面是三顆星可是相對相對在於其他你說中國也好或者說韓國的跟我們同等級的車也好用歐盟的規格撞擊測試人家五顆星\n所以我覺得本席就非常感慨的就是說我們用這樣的一個高關稅的一個保護我們卻沒有換來我們的國際上的一個競爭力部長 莊部長我們現在進口車稅率幾% 17.5%進口車的關稅是17.5%日本0%歐盟呢\n你看看歐盟這裡跟中國15%歐盟10%美國2.5%那我們這麼高的稅率這樣還不打緊喔我們17.5%完以後我們還加一個25%的貨物稅\n當然什麼樣的一個考量我們當年這幾十年來我們為了保護了整個我們國產車可是保護到最後這樣子很可惜本席要講的就是說你像譬如說未來的汽車它其實都是電動化還有智慧化而且我們的強項\n半導體也我們的強項電池管理也我們的強項晶片也我們的強項那是不是我們國家的汽車產業的政策應該來做一個轉變資源如何去做整合你如果說像過去幾十年我們在做汽車的輸人技術打造精密的我們輸假設我們都輸那國際市場我們就沒辦法出去可是接下來整個汽車它就是一個就是像一部行動電腦一樣\n晶片怎麼搞 半導體怎麼搞 電池關聯 我們都世界一流那就沒有理由我們這汽車產業還必須要用高關稅升這個17.5% 乘完以後再乘一個25%對消費者來講 第一個 不公平第二個 我們的產業 我們沒有辦法創出一個像我們科技產業一樣 有一個國際上的一個大品牌\n我不曉得部長你的看法 或者院長你的看法能夠補充一下嗎先跟委員報告這個2000cc以下的小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了第一個太舊換新可以減徵5萬不是另外還可以新購的話\n也可以減5萬所以如果是太舊換新購買新車的話是可以減10萬另外就是電動車全電動車的話它是貨物稅是0%然後使用牌照稅也是0%這兩個都沒有其實就有就是鼓勵我們民眾導向電動車以及產業能夠在這個部分鼓勵往電動車來做發展這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了那貨物稅不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用\n是 我的意思就是說國產車基本上它是有分成就是說國內的品牌另外一種就是像和泰它是帶TOYOTA的所以那個母公司還是在日本但是它還是算國產車然後這些國產車包括和泰他們總共加起來還有零組件事實上就業人數還是有二三十萬人\n所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候其實我們就是針對這樣一個重點我們希望\n過去採取高稅率保護的時代到現在來看我覺得那是不合時宜的過去是產業剛好萌芽剛好發展也需要能夠帶動國內的產業到現在為止國內產業陳如委員所說的我們在相當的領域當中很強了所以對汽車業的保護應該過去不一樣的眼光來看我們希望他能夠進入到國際市場甚至在國內就要\n應該啊 我們整個國家\n我希望我們在我們左院長帶領的團隊裡面汽車產業因應整個現在的整個條件的一個變化我們的強項的那些 應該整合資源然後創造出我們自己的國際的品牌每一行都會贏人 還要跟這些人輸人漏氣 兩位部長請回現在接下來是不是請我們請內政部的劉部長麻煩請內政部長備詢\n我們今天一直在談這個韌性我一直在想我們這個韌性裡面我特別要提出來就是說糧食安全他其實是國土安全的一個基礎農民的一個權益更是社會韌性的一個底座土地的正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環台灣早期的\n經濟的一個發展其實站在他背後是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民談任性其實這個部分才是台灣最重要要談的一個任性那我想戰後工地放領有三個階段就從早期\n1951年到1976年配合耕地耕者有其田分9期去釋出了14萬甲的土地我們也培養出20萬個自耕農但是後來終止掉了這個很可惜了\n那接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放你大家佛資格啊放靈你既然要放你國家收了那麼多土地回來了1989年的時候針對林場合作社實驗林個案然後又去做一個放你可是呢到了1994年到2002年的時候呢你要彌補這個停辦的不一致又開始去放你那我相信這些院長都很清楚了那\n大家都知道中華民國政府到台灣他是沒有帶半片土地來的在清朝的時候哪有土地登記制度沒有土地登記制度是到了日本政府來殖民的時候開始去做土地調查去做土地調查的時候有些土地去登記了國民政府來了把日本人趕走了\n趕走了以後接收了這麼多的日產然後在我們國民政府來以後實施土地總登記以前很多農民\n你覺得我們公營一台、我們租運一台,不,太貴了啦那有什麼叫做登記然後第二個,228的陰影又在那政府既然都已經三階段了,符合條件了就是說我這些工地政府把你給收回來了就是要放零給農民耕者有其田\n他知道我大地主或者韓院長在南東大地主我們一百甲我們上等田我們只有可以留下1.5甲然後其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走了收走了理由是說我要耕著有機田我要放寧給廣大的農民可是沒有啊政府就收走了你也沒有普遍去放寧啊\n所以從當初收歸國有他就不正義你政府你把人家收走了然後你沒有放給農民第一個第二個同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作的有的人有工地方領導\n西部的有南部的也有那有的縣市就跳過去花東又變成沒有全台灣我看公有地占最多89% 將近98%的就是花東\n山林嘛保安林嘛就占了一大堆嘛那是國有 沒話講可是問題是說長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的然後過去政府也實施工地放領的政策到最後你因為九二一大地震因為桃枝颱風喊卡那剛好你認為我們現在大南澳不認為我們大南澳要去示範重啟嗎本席都認為第一個 平等原則\n大家都喊你內政部的資格資格是你內政部審核的嘛你如果審核通過以後怎麼他有怎麼那個縣市有屏東沒有台東沒有華聯沒有本席認為這個就不公平了所以呢以台東來看的話現在經過你內政部2004年核定的有\n魏放寧的土地777筆787筆162公頃這是國產署的一個統計是不是剛好我們看到我們卓院長\n你起來之後 當然要領去示範啊那對其他的縣市 是不是符合你政府自己所設定的標準比如說1976年 你說啊 你就達到 你就長期在做耕種本來你1976年以前 你就在耕作了我政府就是要放領給你的那因為什麼因素 喊卡的\n是不是應該藉著這個我要請部長或者院長來做一個比較明確的答覆好不好我先答覆一下這個委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下的問題我們現在如果能夠把它解決我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義尤其是委員所說的土地正義\n關於大囊奧這件事情因為他過去你剛剛說過有幾個階段性他曾經在過去的這個處理當中同意過他放零後來因為原因停下來了所以我們現在認為如果這樣子把程序完成這是第一步第二部分就是還有沒有其他的也是有同樣條件的曾經同意過現在停下來我們全面再檢視一次第三個\n要完全貫徹土地正義叫全面的檢討如果沒有涉及到國家安全沒有涉及到公共安全而且土地的所有權上現在沒有任何紛爭的那有歷史上的證明他應該可以釋放給現在使用的過去曾有使用證明的這些人我們願意做這樣的全面性的檢討那麼檢討的過程內政部財政部都要去做通例的一些盤點\n跟做一些必要的一些攻擊對陣起來我們確定就是三個先後順序來做從大南澳縣市辦有同意過的我們比照可以來辦理另外全面性的檢討那所以說我剛剛部長我剛所提到的經過你按照院長的講法台東現在這777米這100多公頃內政部曾經同意過的我們就要去把它開啟了我在這個地方啊百分之一萬的來肯定啊我們整個總院長的一個團隊啊\n這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債該還了啦這筆債你本來就該還啦你這樣那個台拓地你還有海埔新生地我大概都還沒講咧政府你鼓勵人家去開墾墾的以後是你的結果到最後政府說停這個這邊政府你一個政策去欺騙人農民辛辛苦苦去做一個耕作到現在\n好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:01.810 --> 00:30.407\n我們財政部總部長麻煩請財政部長備詢經濟部工部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢鄧委員好院長好辛苦我想幾個問題要來就教院長就是說你上任到現在我們也一直聽到院長一直提到說加強台灣的韌性尤其是產業的一個韌性要強化國安跟經濟安全經濟部也編列了將近\n\n00:32.289 --> 00:48.499\n460億的任性的特別預算其中本席去看到提升產業的競爭力開拓多元市場還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項的一個措施這四項措施裡面讓本席想到了就是說很符合\n\n00:49.420 --> 01:17.051\n台灣的汽車產業的一個需要那我想我這邊要來跟院長或者兩位部長來做一些現況的一個描述現在台灣的整個汽車產業高稅制它其實對消費者產生很大很大的一個不公平那還有外銷我們也因為競爭力不足其實沒有辦法去打開\n\n01:18.291 --> 01:44.422\n那我們即便這一次的特別條例上限把它拉到五千七百億甚至每一個人發放一萬塊來希望來刺激這樣的一個消費坦白講一萬塊對於汽車產業來講就賣不夠了那我本期要提出來就是說我先讓院長跟兩位部長來看一下這三家國產的這家三家外面車型不一樣內裝都國產的這第一張\n\n01:47.062 --> 02:04.498\n第二張來看第二張第二張來再往下這個三個都是國產的然後第二張看起來就比較胖胖的兩張呈現出來其實它就是它這個價位都一樣\n\n02:05.852 --> 02:22.594\n價位都一樣就是我們長期我們用台灣的汽車的一個真實的一個困境就是說我們用高稅額去保護我們的國產車的一個市場得到的是呢進口車你就必須要被課重稅\n\n02:23.715 --> 02:41.587\n然後呢我們的國產車呢我也不敢說它的品質落後但是相對去做比較從安全科技甚至於內裝材料啊跟其他的進口車來比較的話可是有時候我們有輸人擔保啦那尤其呢在九月三十號幾天前而已嘛三天前而已\n\n02:46.688 --> 02:55.896\n國產車的商用貨車在台灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星我們撞擊測試零顆星是從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了一萬一千台\n\n03:07.864 --> 03:37.014\n本期要講的就是說撞出史上零顆星車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準安全無疑那國產的轎車在6月26號台灣撞擊測試裡面是三顆星可是相對相對在於其他你說中國也好或者說韓國的跟我們同等級的車也好用歐盟的規格撞擊測試人家五顆星\n\n03:37.694 --> 03:53.668\n所以我覺得本席就非常感慨的就是說我們用這樣的一個高關稅的一個保護我們卻沒有換來我們的國際上的一個競爭力部長莊部長我們現在進口車稅率幾%17.5%進口車的關稅是17.5%日本0%歐盟呢\n\n04:06.161 --> 04:14.130\n你看看歐盟這裡跟中國15%歐盟10%美國2.5%那我們這麼高的稅率這樣還不打緊喔我們17.5%完以後我們還加一個25%的貨物稅\n\n04:24.691 --> 04:42.070\n當然什麼樣的一個考量我們當年這幾十年來我們為了保護了整個我們國產車可是保護到最後這樣子很可惜本席要講的就是說你像譬如說未來的汽車它其實都是電動化還有智慧化而且我們的強項\n\n04:43.391 --> 05:10.957\n半導體也我們的強項電池管理也我們的強項晶片也我們的強項那是不是我們國家的汽車產業的政策應該來做一個轉變資源如何去做整合你如果說像過去幾十年我們在做汽車的輸人技術打造精密的我們輸假設我們都輸那國際市場我們就沒辦法出去可是接下來整個汽車它就是一個就是像一部行動電腦一樣\n\n05:13.052 --> 05:38.377\n晶片怎麼搞半導體怎麼搞電池關聯我們都世界一流那就沒有理由我們這汽車產業還必須要用高關稅升這個17.5%乘完以後再乘一個25%對消費者來講第一個不公平第二個我們的產業我們沒有辦法創出一個像我們科技產業一樣有一個國際上的一個大品牌\n\n05:39.667 --> 05:53.946\n我不曉得部長你的看法或者院長你的看法能夠補充一下嗎先跟委員報告這個2000cc以下的小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了第一個太舊換新可以減徵5萬不是另外還可以新購的話\n\n05:54.867 --> 06:21.860\n也可以減5萬所以如果是太舊換新購買新車的話是可以減10萬另外就是電動車全電動車的話它是貨物稅是0%然後使用牌照稅也是0%這兩個都沒有其實就有就是鼓勵我們民眾導向電動車以及產業能夠在這個部分鼓勵往電動車來做發展這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了那貨物稅不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用\n\n06:22.680 --> 06:50.376\n是我的意思就是說國產車基本上它是有分成就是說國內的品牌另外一種就是像和泰它是帶TOYOTA的所以那個母公司還是在日本但是它還是算國產車然後這些國產車包括和泰他們總共加起來還有零組件事實上就業人數還是有二三十萬人\n\n06:50.896 --> 06:53.438\n所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候其實我們就是針對這樣一個重點我們希望\n\n07:06.745 --> 07:29.605\n過去採取高稅率保護的時代到現在來看我覺得那是不合時宜的過去是產業剛好萌芽剛好發展也需要能夠帶動國內的產業到現在為止國內產業陳如委員所說的我們在相當的領域當中很強了所以對汽車業的保護應該過去不一樣的眼光來看我們希望他能夠進入到國際市場甚至在國內就要\n\n07:30.657 --> 07:30.937\n應該啊我們整個國家\n\n07:51.618 --> 08:17.815\n我希望我們在我們左院長帶領的團隊裡面汽車產業因應整個現在的整個條件的一個變化我們的強項的那些應該整合資源然後創造出我們自己的國際的品牌每一行都會贏人還要跟這些人輸人漏氣兩位部長請回現在接下來是不是請我們請內政部的劉部長麻煩請內政部長備詢\n\n08:23.071 --> 08:46.705\n我們今天一直在談這個韌性我一直在想我們這個韌性裡面我特別要提出來就是說糧食安全他其實是國土安全的一個基礎農民的一個權益更是社會韌性的一個底座土地的正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環台灣早期的\n\n08:48.204 --> 09:06.590\n經濟的一個發展其實站在他背後是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民談任性其實這個部分才是台灣最重要要談的一個任性那我想戰後工地放領有三個階段就從早期\n\n09:08.774 --> 09:22.039\n1951年到1976年配合耕地耕者有其田分9期去釋出了14萬甲的土地我們也培養出20萬個自耕農但是後來終止掉了這個很可惜了\n\n09:22.898 --> 09:51.929\n那接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放你大家佛資格啊放靈你既然要放你國家收了那麼多土地回來了1989年的時候針對林場合作社實驗林個案然後又去做一個放你可是呢到了1994年到2002年的時候呢你要彌補這個停辦的不一致又開始去放你那我相信這些院長都很清楚了那\n\n09:53.288 --> 10:18.830\n大家都知道中華民國政府到台灣他是沒有帶半片土地來的在清朝的時候哪有土地登記制度沒有土地登記制度是到了日本政府來殖民的時候開始去做土地調查去做土地調查的時候有些土地去登記了國民政府來了把日本人趕走了\n\n10:21.204 --> 10:30.662\n趕走了以後接收了這麼多的日產然後在我們國民政府來以後實施土地總登記以前很多農民\n\n10:31.664 --> 10:50.647\n你覺得我們公營一台、我們租運一台,不,太貴了啦那有什麼叫做登記然後第二個,228的陰影又在那政府既然都已經三階段了,符合條件了就是說我這些工地政府把你給收回來了就是要放零給農民耕者有其田\n\n10:52.056 --> 11:12.990\n他知道我大地主或者韓院長在南東大地主我們一百甲我們上等田我們只有可以留下1.5甲然後其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走了收走了理由是說我要耕著有機田我要放寧給廣大的農民可是沒有啊政府就收走了你也沒有普遍去放寧啊\n\n11:14.594 --> 11:31.561\n所以從當初收歸國有他就不正義你政府你把人家收走了然後你沒有放給農民第一個第二個同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作的有的人有工地方領導\n\n11:33.487 --> 11:42.574\n西部的有南部的也有那有的縣市就跳過去花東又變成沒有全台灣我看公有地占最多89%將近98%的就是花東\n\n11:46.502 --> 12:14.958\n山林嘛保安林嘛就占了一大堆嘛那是國有沒話講可是問題是說長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的然後過去政府也實施工地放領的政策到最後你因為九二一大地震因為桃枝颱風喊卡那剛好你認為我們現在大南澳不認為我們大南澳要去示範重啟嗎本席都認為第一個平等原則\n\n12:16.260 --> 12:36.908\n大家都喊你內政部的資格資格是你內政部審核的嘛你如果審核通過以後怎麼他有怎麼那個縣市有屏東沒有台東沒有華聯沒有本席認為這個就不公平了所以呢以台東來看的話現在經過你內政部2004年核定的有\n\n12:37.950 --> 12:40.915\n魏放寧的土地777筆787筆162公頃這是國產署的一個統計是不是剛好我們看到我們卓院長\n\n12:51.001 --> 13:09.899\n你起來之後當然要領去示範啊那對其他的縣市是不是符合你政府自己所設定的標準比如說1976年你說啊你就達到你就長期在做耕種本來你1976年以前你就在耕作了我政府就是要放領給你的那因為什麼因素喊卡的\n\n13:10.800 --> 13:28.602\n是不是應該藉著這個我要請部長或者院長來做一個比較明確的答覆好不好我先答覆一下這個委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下的問題我們現在如果能夠把它解決我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義尤其是委員所說的土地正義\n\n13:29.383 --> 13:54.450\n關於大囊奧這件事情因為他過去你剛剛說過有幾個階段性他曾經在過去的這個處理當中同意過他放零後來因為原因停下來了所以我們現在認為如果這樣子把程序完成這是第一步第二部分就是還有沒有其他的也是有同樣條件的曾經同意過現在停下來我們全面再檢視一次第三個\n\n13:55.598 --> 14:20.403\n要完全貫徹土地正義叫全面的檢討如果沒有涉及到國家安全沒有涉及到公共安全而且土地的所有權上現在沒有任何紛爭的那有歷史上的證明他應該可以釋放給現在使用的過去曾有使用證明的這些人我們願意做這樣的全面性的檢討那麼檢討的過程內政部財政部都要去做通例的一些盤點\n\n14:21.443 --> 14:48.060\n跟做一些必要的一些攻擊對陣起來我們確定就是三個先後順序來做從大南澳縣市辦有同意過的我們比照可以來辦理另外全面性的檢討那所以說我剛剛部長我剛所提到的經過你按照院長的講法台東現在這777米這100多公頃內政部曾經同意過的我們就要去把它開啟了我在這個地方啊百分之一萬的來肯定啊我們整個總院長的一個團隊啊\n\n14:49.381 --> 15:14.978\n這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債該還了啦這筆債你本來就該還啦你這樣那個台拓地你還有海埔新生地我大概都還沒講咧政府你鼓勵人家去開墾墾的以後是你的結果到最後政府說停這個這邊政府你一個政策去欺騙人農民辛辛苦苦去做一個耕作到現在\n\n15:26.832 --> 15:28.633\n好謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢謝謝卓院長相關部會首長備詢謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":1.81,"end":30.407,"text":"我們財政部總部長麻煩請財政部長備詢經濟部工部長麻煩請經濟部長備詢鄧委員好院長好 辛苦我想幾個問題要來就教院長就是說你上任到現在我們也一直聽到院長一直提到說加強台灣的韌性尤其是產業的一個韌性要強化國安跟經濟安全經濟部也編列了將近"},{"start":32.289,"end":48.499,"text":"460億的任性的特別預算其中本席去看到提升產業的競爭力開拓多元市場還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項的一個措施這四項措施裡面讓本席想到了就是說很符合"},{"start":49.42,"end":77.051,"text":"台灣的汽車產業的一個需要那我想我這邊要來跟院長或者兩位部長來做一些現況的一個描述現在台灣的整個汽車產業高稅制它其實對消費者產生很大很大的一個不公平那還有外銷我們也因為競爭力不足其實沒有辦法去打開"},{"start":78.291,"end":104.422,"text":"那我們即便這一次的特別條例上限把它拉到五千七百億甚至每一個人發放一萬塊來希望來刺激這樣的一個消費坦白講一萬塊對於汽車產業來講就賣不夠了那我本期要提出來就是說我先讓院長跟兩位部長來看一下這三家國產的這家三家外面車型不一樣內裝都國產的這第一張"},{"start":107.062,"end":124.498,"text":"第二張來看第二張第二張來再往下這個三個都是國產的然後第二張看起來就比較胖胖的兩張呈現出來其實它就是它這個價位都一樣"},{"start":125.852,"end":142.594,"text":"價位都一樣就是我們長期我們用台灣的汽車的一個真實的一個困境就是說我們用高稅額去保護我們的國產車的一個市場得到的是呢進口車你就必須要被課重稅"},{"start":143.715,"end":161.587,"text":"然後呢 我們的國產車呢 我也不敢說它的品質落後但是相對去做比較 從安全科技 甚至於內裝材料啊跟其他的進口車來比較的話 可是有時候我們有輸人擔保啦那尤其呢 在九月三十號 幾天前而已嘛 三天前而已"},{"start":166.688,"end":175.896,"text":"國產車的商用貨車在台灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星我們撞擊測試零顆星是從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了一萬一千台"},{"start":187.864,"end":217.014,"text":"本期要講的就是說撞出史上零顆星車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準安全無疑那國產的轎車在6月26號台灣撞擊測試裡面是三顆星可是相對相對在於其他你說中國也好或者說韓國的跟我們同等級的車也好用歐盟的規格撞擊測試人家五顆星"},{"start":217.694,"end":233.668,"text":"所以我覺得本席就非常感慨的就是說我們用這樣的一個高關稅的一個保護我們卻沒有換來我們的國際上的一個競爭力部長 莊部長我們現在進口車稅率幾% 17.5%進口車的關稅是17.5%日本0%歐盟呢"},{"start":246.161,"end":254.13,"text":"你看看歐盟這裡跟中國15%歐盟10%美國2.5%那我們這麼高的稅率這樣還不打緊喔我們17.5%完以後我們還加一個25%的貨物稅"},{"start":264.691,"end":282.07,"text":"當然什麼樣的一個考量我們當年這幾十年來我們為了保護了整個我們國產車可是保護到最後這樣子很可惜本席要講的就是說你像譬如說未來的汽車它其實都是電動化還有智慧化而且我們的強項"},{"start":283.391,"end":310.957,"text":"半導體也我們的強項電池管理也我們的強項晶片也我們的強項那是不是我們國家的汽車產業的政策應該來做一個轉變資源如何去做整合你如果說像過去幾十年我們在做汽車的輸人技術打造精密的我們輸假設我們都輸那國際市場我們就沒辦法出去可是接下來整個汽車它就是一個就是像一部行動電腦一樣"},{"start":313.052,"end":338.377,"text":"晶片怎麼搞 半導體怎麼搞 電池關聯 我們都世界一流那就沒有理由我們這汽車產業還必須要用高關稅升這個17.5% 乘完以後再乘一個25%對消費者來講 第一個 不公平第二個 我們的產業 我們沒有辦法創出一個像我們科技產業一樣 有一個國際上的一個大品牌"},{"start":339.667,"end":353.946,"text":"我不曉得部長你的看法 或者院長你的看法能夠補充一下嗎先跟委員報告這個2000cc以下的小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了第一個太舊換新可以減徵5萬不是另外還可以新購的話"},{"start":354.867,"end":381.86,"text":"也可以減5萬所以如果是太舊換新購買新車的話是可以減10萬另外就是電動車全電動車的話它是貨物稅是0%然後使用牌照稅也是0%這兩個都沒有其實就有就是鼓勵我們民眾導向電動車以及產業能夠在這個部分鼓勵往電動車來做發展這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了那貨物稅不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用"},{"start":382.68,"end":410.376,"text":"是 我的意思就是說國產車基本上它是有分成就是說國內的品牌另外一種就是像和泰它是帶TOYOTA的所以那個母公司還是在日本但是它還是算國產車然後這些國產車包括和泰他們總共加起來還有零組件事實上就業人數還是有二三十萬人"},{"start":410.896,"end":413.438,"text":"所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候其實我們就是針對這樣一個重點我們希望"},{"start":426.745,"end":449.605,"text":"過去採取高稅率保護的時代到現在來看我覺得那是不合時宜的過去是產業剛好萌芽剛好發展也需要能夠帶動國內的產業到現在為止國內產業陳如委員所說的我們在相當的領域當中很強了所以對汽車業的保護應該過去不一樣的眼光來看我們希望他能夠進入到國際市場甚至在國內就要"},{"start":450.657,"end":450.937,"text":"應該啊 我們整個國家"},{"start":471.618,"end":497.815,"text":"我希望我們在我們左院長帶領的團隊裡面汽車產業因應整個現在的整個條件的一個變化我們的強項的那些 應該整合資源然後創造出我們自己的國際的品牌每一行都會贏人 還要跟這些人輸人漏氣 兩位部長請回現在接下來是不是請我們請內政部的劉部長麻煩請內政部長備詢"},{"start":503.071,"end":526.705,"text":"我們今天一直在談這個韌性我一直在想我們這個韌性裡面我特別要提出來就是說糧食安全他其實是國土安全的一個基礎農民的一個權益更是社會韌性的一個底座土地的正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環台灣早期的"},{"start":528.204,"end":546.59,"text":"經濟的一個發展其實站在他背後是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民談任性其實這個部分才是台灣最重要要談的一個任性那我想戰後工地放領有三個階段就從早期"},{"start":548.774,"end":562.039,"text":"1951年到1976年配合耕地耕者有其田分9期去釋出了14萬甲的土地我們也培養出20萬個自耕農但是後來終止掉了這個很可惜了"},{"start":562.898,"end":591.929,"text":"那接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放你大家佛資格啊放靈你既然要放你國家收了那麼多土地回來了1989年的時候針對林場合作社實驗林個案然後又去做一個放你可是呢到了1994年到2002年的時候呢你要彌補這個停辦的不一致又開始去放你那我相信這些院長都很清楚了那"},{"start":593.288,"end":618.83,"text":"大家都知道中華民國政府到台灣他是沒有帶半片土地來的在清朝的時候哪有土地登記制度沒有土地登記制度是到了日本政府來殖民的時候開始去做土地調查去做土地調查的時候有些土地去登記了國民政府來了把日本人趕走了"},{"start":621.204,"end":630.662,"text":"趕走了以後接收了這麼多的日產然後在我們國民政府來以後實施土地總登記以前很多農民"},{"start":631.664,"end":650.647,"text":"你覺得我們公營一台、我們租運一台,不,太貴了啦那有什麼叫做登記然後第二個,228的陰影又在那政府既然都已經三階段了,符合條件了就是說我這些工地政府把你給收回來了就是要放零給農民耕者有其田"},{"start":652.056,"end":672.99,"text":"他知道我大地主或者韓院長在南東大地主我們一百甲我們上等田我們只有可以留下1.5甲然後其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走了收走了理由是說我要耕著有機田我要放寧給廣大的農民可是沒有啊政府就收走了你也沒有普遍去放寧啊"},{"start":674.594,"end":691.561,"text":"所以從當初收歸國有他就不正義你政府你把人家收走了然後你沒有放給農民第一個第二個同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作的有的人有工地方領導"},{"start":693.487,"end":702.574,"text":"西部的有南部的也有那有的縣市就跳過去花東又變成沒有全台灣我看公有地占最多89% 將近98%的就是花東"},{"start":706.502,"end":734.958,"text":"山林嘛保安林嘛就占了一大堆嘛那是國有 沒話講可是問題是說長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的然後過去政府也實施工地放領的政策到最後你因為九二一大地震因為桃枝颱風喊卡那剛好你認為我們現在大南澳不認為我們大南澳要去示範重啟嗎本席都認為第一個 平等原則"},{"start":736.26,"end":756.908,"text":"大家都喊你內政部的資格資格是你內政部審核的嘛你如果審核通過以後怎麼他有怎麼那個縣市有屏東沒有台東沒有華聯沒有本席認為這個就不公平了所以呢以台東來看的話現在經過你內政部2004年核定的有"},{"start":757.95,"end":760.915,"text":"魏放寧的土地777筆787筆162公頃這是國產署的一個統計是不是剛好我們看到我們卓院長"},{"start":771.001,"end":789.899,"text":"你起來之後 當然要領去示範啊那對其他的縣市 是不是符合你政府自己所設定的標準比如說1976年 你說啊 你就達到 你就長期在做耕種本來你1976年以前 你就在耕作了我政府就是要放領給你的那因為什麼因素 喊卡的"},{"start":790.8,"end":808.602,"text":"是不是應該藉著這個我要請部長或者院長來做一個比較明確的答覆好不好我先答覆一下這個委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下的問題我們現在如果能夠把它解決我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義尤其是委員所說的土地正義"},{"start":809.383,"end":834.45,"text":"關於大囊奧這件事情因為他過去你剛剛說過有幾個階段性他曾經在過去的這個處理當中同意過他放零後來因為原因停下來了所以我們現在認為如果這樣子把程序完成這是第一步第二部分就是還有沒有其他的也是有同樣條件的曾經同意過現在停下來我們全面再檢視一次第三個"},{"start":835.598,"end":860.403,"text":"要完全貫徹土地正義叫全面的檢討如果沒有涉及到國家安全沒有涉及到公共安全而且土地的所有權上現在沒有任何紛爭的那有歷史上的證明他應該可以釋放給現在使用的過去曾有使用證明的這些人我們願意做這樣的全面性的檢討那麼檢討的過程內政部財政部都要去做通例的一些盤點"},{"start":861.443,"end":888.06,"text":"跟做一些必要的一些攻擊對陣起來我們確定就是三個先後順序來做從大南澳縣市辦有同意過的我們比照可以來辦理另外全面性的檢討那所以說我剛剛部長我剛所提到的經過你按照院長的講法台東現在這777米這100多公頃內政部曾經同意過的我們就要去把它開啟了我在這個地方啊百分之一萬的來肯定啊我們整個總院長的一個團隊啊"},{"start":889.381,"end":914.978,"text":"這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債該還了啦這筆債你本來就該還啦你這樣那個台拓地你還有海埔新生地我大概都還沒講咧政府你鼓勵人家去開墾墾的以後是你的結果到最後政府說停這個這邊政府你一個政策去欺騙人農民辛辛苦苦去做一個耕作到現在"},{"start":926.832,"end":928.633,"text":"好 謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢 謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長備詢 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":942,"blocks":[["莊委員瑞雄：（12時）謝謝主席，有請行政院卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：財政部莊部長。"],["主席：麻煩請財政部長備詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：經濟部龔部長。"],["主席：麻煩請經濟部長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：莊委員好。"],["莊委員瑞雄：院長好，辛苦了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我有幾個問題要來就教院長，從你上任到現在，我們也聽到院長一直提到，要加強臺灣的韌性，尤其是產業的韌性，要強化國安跟經濟安全。經濟部也編列了將近460億的韌性特別預算，其中本席看到提升產業競爭力、開拓多元市場，還有研發轉型補助跟爭取海外訂單四項措施，這四項措施本席認為很符合臺灣汽車產業的需要，我這邊要跟院長或者兩位部長做一些現況的描述。","現在臺灣整個汽車產業高稅制，它其實對消費者產生很大的不公平，還有外銷也因為競爭力不足，遲遲沒有辦法打開。即便這一次我們把特別條例的上限拉到5,700億，甚至每一個人發放1萬塊，希望來刺激消費，但坦白講，1萬塊對於汽車產業來說，連買一個輪子都不夠。本席要提出，我先讓院長跟兩位部長看一下，這三輛車是國產的，外面的車型不一樣而已，內裝都是國產的，這是第一張；來看第二張，院長，第二張看起來就比較豐富一點了。其實它們的價位都一樣，兩張圖片呈現出來的就是，長期臺灣汽車產業真實的困境是，我們用高稅額去保護我們國產車的市場，得到的是進口車就必須要被課重稅，然後我們的國產車，我也不敢說它的品質落後，但是相對去做比較，從安全、科技，甚至於內裝、材料，跟其他的進口車來比較的話，確實我們是輸人家一點。","尤其在9月30號，3天前而已，國產車的商用貨車在臺灣撞擊測試裡面得到零顆星，部長應該知道這件事，兩位部長應該都知道，這個撞擊測試零顆星的貨車從2024年9月到2025年9月已經賣出了1萬1,000台，本席要講的是，撞出史上零顆星，車商出來講說完全符合中華民國車輛安全標準，安全無虞。而國產的轎車在6月26號臺灣撞擊測試裡面是得到3顆星，可是相對於其他國家，不管是中國也好，或者是韓國跟我們同等級的車也好，用歐盟的規格撞擊測試，人家得到5顆星，所以本席覺得非常感慨，我們用這樣高關稅的保護，卻沒有換來我們在國際上的競爭力。莊部長，我們現在進口車的稅率是多少？17.5%嗎？"],["莊部長翠雲：進口車的關稅是17.5%。"],["莊委員瑞雄：日本0%；中國15%；歐盟10%；美國2.5%。我們這麼高的稅率還不打緊，我們課完17.5%以後還加一個25%的貨物稅，當然當年是基於什麼樣的考量，這幾十年來我們為了保護我們整個國產車，可是保護到最後，這樣子很可惜。本席要講的是，未來的汽車其實都是電動化、智慧化，這是我們的強項，半導體也是我們的強項，電池管理也是我們的強項，晶片也是我們的強項，是不是我們國家汽車產業的政策應該來做個轉變？資源如何去做整合？像幾十年前，我們做汽車就輸別人，不論是技術打造或精密的，假設我們都輸，我們就沒辦法出去國際市場，可是接下來整個汽車就是像一部行動電腦一樣，晶片方面我們也厲害，半導體方面我們也厲害，甚至是電池管理方面，我們都是世界一流，那就沒有理由我們的汽車產業還必須要用高關稅，先乘一個17.5%，乘完以後再乘一個25%，對消費者來講，第一個、不公平，第二個、我們的產業沒有辦法像我們的科技產業一樣創出一個國際上的大品牌。不曉得兩位部長的看法或者院長的看法如何？"],["莊部長翠雲：先跟委員報告，2,000cc以下小客車的貨物稅已經有減徵了，第一個、汰舊換新可以減徵5萬，另外新購的話，也可以減5萬，所以如果是汰舊換新、購買新車的話，是可以減10萬。另外就是電動車，電動車的貨物稅是0%，然後使用牌照稅也是0%，所以這兩個都沒有，其實就有鼓勵民眾導向電動車，以及鼓勵產業在這個部分能夠往電動車來做發展，這個在貨物稅的部分已經做調整了，而且貨物稅方面，不管是進口車或是國產車都一致適用。"],["莊委員瑞雄：是。龔部長，我的意思就是，我們的強項這麼多……"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，所謂的國產車，基本上是有分成國內的品牌，另外一種就是像和泰，它是代Toyota的，它的母公司是在日本，但是它還是算國產車，然後這些國產車，包括和泰，還有零組件，他們總共加起來的就業人數還是有2、30萬人。"],["莊委員瑞雄：你們這個就比較本位主義了，我要就教院長的是，我們國家有那麼多強項，我們卻走不出去，真的很可惜！院長，你的看法呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：所以我們這一次在討論到貨物稅減免的時候，就是針對這樣的一個重點，過去採取高稅率保護的時代，到現在來看，我覺得那是不合時宜的，過去是產業剛萌芽、剛要發展，也希望能夠帶動國內的產業，到現在為止，誠如委員所說的，國內產業在相當領域當中已經很強了，所以對汽車業的保護應該用跟過去不一樣的眼光來看，我們希望它能夠進入到國際市場，甚至在國內就要自己有競爭力，要能夠跟國際競爭的車，我們才能夠進入到國際市場，所以一方面要培植自己的競爭力，一方面我們從國際的方向來做思考。再加上現在還在進行的種種的關稅談判，在還沒有定案之前，我們先把貨物稅降下來，未來我們還會有進一步的作為。"],["莊委員瑞雄：我希望我們國家在卓院長帶領的團隊裡面，汽車產業因應現在整個條件的變化，我們的強項已經這麼多了，應該要整合資源，創造出我們自己的國際品牌。明明我們每一項都贏別人，結果只有這一項輸別人，真的是漏氣！","兩位部長請回，接下來請內政部劉部長。"],["主席：麻煩請內政部長備詢。"],["莊委員瑞雄：院長，我們今天一直在談韌性，我一直在想，在韌性裡面我特別要提出來的是，糧食安全其實是國土安全的基礎，農民的權益更是社會韌性的底座，土地正義更是區域發展不可或缺的一環。臺灣早期的經濟發展，其實站在它背後的是一群手拿著鋤頭的農民，所以要談韌性，這個部分才是臺灣最重要要談的韌性。","戰後公地放領有三個階段，從早期1951年到1976年，為了配合耕者有其田，分9期釋出了14萬甲的土地，我們也培養出20萬個自耕農，但是後來終止掉了，這個很可惜！接下來到1989年的時候又去專案放領，大家都符合資格啊！你既然要放領，國家收了那麼多土地回來，1989年的時候，針對林場、合作社、實驗林等個案，又去做一個放領。可是1994年到2002年的時候，為了要彌補這個停辦的不一致，又開始去放領，我相信這些院長都很清楚。大家都知道中華民國政府到臺灣是沒有帶半片土地來的，在清朝的時候，哪有土地登記制度？沒有土地登記制度！是到了日本政府來殖民的時候，開始去做土地調查，做土地調查的時候，有些土地登記了。國民政府來了把日本人趕走，趕走以後接收了這麼多的日產，然後國民政府來了以後，實施土地總登記。以前很多農民，像我爺爺或我曾祖父他們那一代沒讀過書，哪懂什麼叫做登記？第二個、228的陰影又在，既然都已經三階段符合條件，政府把這些公地給收回來了，就是要放領給農民，實施耕者有其田，以前如果我或者韓院長都是大地主，我們有100甲上等田，只可以留下1.5甲，其他的98.5甲全部被國民政府給收走，收走的理由是要耕者有其田、要放領給廣大的農民，可是沒有，政府就收走了，也沒有普遍去放領！所以從當初收歸國有就不正義，政府把人家的地收走了，卻沒有放給農民，這是第一個。第二個、同樣廣大的農民一直在耕作，有的人有公地放領到，西部的有，南部的也有，有的縣市就跳過去，花東又變成沒有。我看全臺灣公有地占最多89%、將近90%的就是花東，因為山林、保安林就占了一大堆，那是國有，當然沒話講。可是問題是對於長期以來一直在這個地方耕作的人，雖然過去政府也實施公地放領的政策，到最後卻因為921大地震、桃芝颱風喊卡。院長、部長，剛好我們現在在大南澳試辦、重啟，本席倒認為：第一個、平等原則，大家都符合內政部的資格，資格是內政部審核的，如果審核通過以後，怎麼他有？怎麼那個縣市有？屏東沒有，臺東沒有，花蓮沒有，本席認為這個就不公平。以臺東來看，現在經過內政部2004年核定未放領的土地有777筆、162公頃，這是國產署的統計。剛好我們看到卓院長上任之後，大南澳你們去試辦了，對其他的縣市是不是符合政府自己所設定的標準，比如1976年、達到長期在耕種的？即本來1976年以前就在耕作的，政府就是要放領給你，因為什麼因素喊卡的，是不是應該藉著這個機會重啟？我要請部長或者院長比較明確的答復，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：我先答復一下委員剛剛說歷史上遺留下來的問題，我們現在如果能夠把它解決，我覺得我們是替歷史還原一種正義，尤其是委員所說的土地正義。關於大南澳這件事情，因為它過去有您剛剛說過的幾個階段性，它曾經在過去的處理當中同意過放領，後來因為某種原因停下來了，所以我們現在認為如果這樣把程序完成，這是第一部分。第二部分就是還有沒有其他也是有同樣條件的，曾經同意過、現在停下來，我們全面再檢視一次。第三部分、要完全貫徹土地正義就要全面的檢討，如果沒有涉及到國家安全，沒有涉及到公共安全，而且現在土地所有權沒有任何紛爭，那有歷史上的證明，它應該可以釋放給現在使用的或是過去曾有使用證明的這些人。我們願意做這樣全面性的檢討，那麼檢討的過程，內政部、財政部都要通力盤點跟必要的勾稽，對證起來，我們確信就依這三個先後順序來做。從大南澳先試辦，有同意過的，我們可以比照辦理，另外進行全面性的檢討。"],["莊委員瑞雄：部長，我剛剛所提到的，按照院長的講法，臺東現在這777筆、一百多公頃，是內政部曾經同意過的，我們就要去把它開啟了，我在這個地方百分之一萬地來肯定整個卓院長的團隊，這是國家欠農民歷史的一筆債，該還了啦，這筆債你本來就該還，像那個台拓地、還有海埔新生地，我都還沒講耶！政府鼓勵人家去開墾，墾了以後是你的，結果到最後政府說：停！這就變成政府擬一個政策去欺騙人，農民辛辛苦苦去耕作，到現在有的人有放領，有的人沒有放領，人心如果浮動的話，社會就不會有韌性，非常感謝部長，也非常感謝院長這樣明確的宣示，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["主席：好，謝謝莊瑞雄委員質詢、謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，現在我們在議場二樓旁聽的是來自世界華商總會，有澳洲、巴拉圭、日本、英國、西班牙，還有印尼、加拿大，我們熱情的掌聲歡迎各位。","再下來我們上午最後一位質詢的委員葉元之委員，請質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}}