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\"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"院\", \"start\": 944.217, \"end\": 944.397, \"score\": 0.889}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"相\", \"start\": 944.397, \"end\": 944.457, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"關\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 944.457, \"end\": 944.477, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"首\", \"start\": 944.477, \"end\": 944.538, \"score\": 0.666}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"貝\"}, {\"word\": \"馨\", \"start\": 944.538, \"end\": 944.558, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:00,091 --> 00:00:00,111\n卑詩\n\n2\n00:00:10,417 --> 00:00:38,240\n葉文豪院長好早上聽你的報告你提到說現在發這1萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力我覺得您這種態度就對了早上我也看到您很委屈的在澄清就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發可不發或者是說沒有說可發然後不發然後你在澄清你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎\n\n3\n00:00:40,101 --> 00:01:08,315\n因為你一開始的時候的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣我們一開始是希望說政府不舉債我們用到需要的地方去那你講話的方式嘛我現在建議你嘛不要造成國人的誤會嘛因為你一開始就說一萬塊遙控飛機買了冰箱買了就沒啦好像這一萬塊大家沒什麼需要我們希望說國家需要的地方我們七砂成塔用在那個地方去還有就是你們執政黨的立委還有講說這個發一萬塊錢就是配合中共窮台啦\n\n4\n00:01:09,255 --> 00:01:37,743\n認知作戰或統戰啊講得好像領這個一萬塊錢很不堪啊剛剛也有委員之意我們比賽再增高這也是有相關的啊我這只是建議啦齁如果一開始的時候其實大家採取比較正面的態度用討論的用促成的方式而不是一直批評我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦對國家的價值認定不同就像您今天早上的態度讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實\n\n5\n00:01:38,743 --> 00:01:57,937\n就很棒啊就是因為之前變來變去態度就前後變來變去大家才會產生因為我們已經決定要舉債了我們就可以花出去的比較多就是這樣子而已你講的跟我不同事情我講的是你的態度前後不一樣那你之前要舉債現在舉債不是一樣而且你變了很多其他的預算舉債也不是說\n\n6\n00:02:00,358 --> 00:02:21,729\n舉債也不是說純粹是因為這個事情舉債啦我們在編任性條例跟預算之後我們是希望這筆錢4100億是不舉債的你有的東西跟舉債沒有關嘛你有的是講話的態度的問題嘛遙控飛機冰箱我也很快的跟你確定一下幾個啦現在時程上面因為既然要發了我覺得大家就會很期待\n\n7\n00:02:22,669 --> 00:02:48,659\n執政上如果立法院十月中過去可以那個送出立法院那我有看你回答其他委員的回答做了很多先前作業然後這些東西可不可以給一個比較明確的日期月底感覺比較有困難嘛因為早上回答是比較有困難那現在大概什麼時候之前一定做到總算個目標不然早是講一個比較空洞的大家會比較一個月大概什麼時候\n\n8\n00:02:49,992 --> 00:03:17,704\n11月中以前一定會發那是大院審理完成通過之後總統公告之後11個月假設10月中一定送出去的話你是11月中以前一定會發嗎我認為總統也好我們也會請總統能夠緊述公告他就生效生效一個月內就可以一個月所以我們數學很簡單數學10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發\n\n9\n00:03:18,644 --> 00:03:45,695\n這是確定的嘛但是如果說動作更快的話就可以更早嘛能快就快但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延那個是細節我講的就是一個月嘛就是十月中嘛謝謝那大家就是至少十月中就可以這個期待然後第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的就是有登記路障ATM領取郵局領取直接路障跟照冊發放不會再多了嘛\n\n10\n00:03:46,195 --> 00:04:06,363\n本來就沒有再多然後在這個系統的設計上也不會變來變去我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去一下說研議不領取的這個選項一下又說不用研議不領取選項當民間的團體來跟我們做這種意見的表達的時候我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能你研議了多久\n\n11\n00:04:07,538 --> 00:04:24,471\n研議完全不影響這個程序啊我們9月11號你後來是研議之後是覺得什麼因素所以不做我們認為這個對各自的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險所以我們就停下來其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設這個不領取\n\n12\n00:04:25,952 --> 00:04:52,377\n因為其實你們到最後發放完之後都可以確定有多少人是不領取就以2023年發放最後是有7萬人不領取我怎麼知道因為最後就算得出來所以你去偵測一個不領取這就多此一舉因為院長您是行政院長講話都是會讓人家覺得這個會往那個方向去院長說要研議不領取大家就覺得會不會到時候真的會出現一個不領取的選項\n\n13\n00:04:53,646 --> 00:05:09,697\n但是實際上你們兩個要搖頭所以根本不可能嘛延誼的過程完全沒有延後任何的時間院長用詞譴制方面可能要稍微留意一下因為你講一句話國人就討論了國人就會覺得哇賽連這個都要設不理取委員很多建議我們也都是延誼啊\n\n14\n00:05:11,359 --> 00:05:34,741\n但是我們建議很多都有建設性謝謝委員再來我想問一下預算的問題順便問一下因為像這個光復箱剛剛講說有五種領取方式因為光復箱那邊有的證件被沖走了有的ATM也被沖走ATM也沒有了請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放\n\n15\n00:05:37,628 --> 00:06:04,165\n基本上我們還是維持這樣的一個方式因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月那當然是先要協助光復鄉的國人們能夠盡快把相關的證件能夠補辦起來因為除了這個領一萬塊還有其他也需要使用那我想各部會都在協助他們不管是健保卡身份證等等都在協助那如果在那個特別有需要的話我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式專案方式是\n\n16\n00:06:04,805 --> 00:06:32,307\n對但是目前那個六個月時間其實是夠長的我想那個時候證件應該你們會第一個就是先讓他們想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊然後再來ATM的這些設施趕快恢復但如果真的有特殊狀況的話用專案來處理我們再來做專案處理我們先用一站式的服務健保卡身分證郵局還有農會如果需要這個證件我們用一站式的服務而且現在我們據你所知護證所已經恢復它的基本功能好謝謝\n\n17\n00:06:33,167 --> 00:06:37,951\n再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算現在產業支持是規劃了780億請問一下780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的\n\n18\n00:06:46,721 --> 00:07:02,571\n支持產業的部分因為你現在用對等關稅32%或者是20%你所評估出來的預算產業支持的預算當初應該是不一樣嘛那你780億是根據什麼依據部長來詳細說明在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候我們是用高推估30%是幾%780億是根據幾%估出來大致上也是差不多30左右\n\n19\n00:07:15,026 --> 00:07:23,071\n是用30%就是關稅30%所以換句話說因為現在關稅是20%加N嘛如果之後現在繼續談談到後來假設20%可以降下來就不會花到781這麼多是這個意思嗎\n\n20\n00:07:34,958 --> 00:07:49,291\n也不一定因為談的過程當中我們可能也會有一些讓利所以你當初是比較高估嗎因為政府一直告訴我們說20%加N是暫時性關稅所以理論上按照政府講話邏輯應該關稅會降應該不會往上增到30%因為包括委員因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅還有什麼\n\n21\n00:07:57,678 --> 00:08:14,429\n匯率或其他的問題所以這是一個粗估切巴士是一個粗估最後用多少不知道因為剛剛部長也講了國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多你剛剛不確定性很高我這邊提醒幾個我想請教一下第一個\n\n22\n00:08:15,816 --> 00:08:33,791\n因為美方傳出來消息是希望我們晶片是五五分但我們政府已經拒絕了然後我們提出來一個方案是說擴大去美國投資可以用G2G的方式然後類似成立在美國成立科學園區這個事情是確實的嗎\n\n23\n00:08:36,878 --> 00:08:50,474\n巴爾委員是這樣就是說台灣產業的成功它有一個型態就是一個群聚聚落Cluster我知道我就確認一下因為我們過去來講我們這個群聚是不是確定就是我沒有提這個方案\n\n24\n00:08:51,414 --> 00:09:06,497\n就是鼓勵我們的企業整合然後去那邊設科學園區是不是有提出這樣的方案跟美方表達就是產業要成功的話一定要形成一個聚落\n\n25\n00:09:07,217 --> 00:09:31,981\n這個我知道啦我是問有沒有這件事嘛有或還是沒有嘛那園區是一個形態有嘛那就是有嘛為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆不要拖時間啦因為我們有時間有限那我是想問說那你有考慮到整個產業過去之後因為他還要帶那個產業鏈嘛然後很多企業會過去假設以科學園區的規模的話那那麼多公司他的投資資本是有限的\n\n26\n00:09:32,541 --> 00:09:57,816\n過去投資多一點在台灣投資就會少一點可能會造成台灣產業空洞化經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情不會我們已經先隸屬台灣佈局全球所以隸屬台灣當然口號是這樣可是資本就是這樣他的資本過去之後他能夠等一下我還沒有講等一下等一下還沒有講他的資本就是這麼多他投資美國資本比較多當然投資台灣就會少一點\n\n27\n00:09:58,916 --> 00:10:26,224\n因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源嘛你現在主要都是用民間資源嗎報告委員就是說如果他那邊有訂單形成可以有經濟規模他當然會過去但是有一些小的企業他沒有辦法他可能在只能取一地而已所以我們會在這種情況下我們會要求他的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在台灣做然後供應給他那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模啊\n\n28\n00:10:27,199 --> 00:10:55,080\n沒有他可以跟我們形成一個很好的我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G2地方成立一個科學園區的規模我是擔心說投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化你沒有回答我的問題我說不會啊第二個曾經你們有一個方案是說要跟美國鼓勵我們的企業跟美國去買農產品大概四年要一百億美金對吧這是有的\n\n29\n00:10:55,919 --> 00:11:14,634\n我們的工協會跟一些主要的產業然後也不會用到納稅人的錢但是這個可能也會造成一個問題因為我看到一些企業像捕風或者是台糖他們的說法是說他們也願意配合企業可是他們以前在買東西的時候因為可以跟各國去買那現在如果說要擴大跟美國投資變成規格標\n\n30\n00:11:16,736 --> 00:11:33,753\n那勢必會提高成本我想他有三個思考再請部長一個就是我們的進口需要的我們從各方來買我講的是企業直接的回復啦我提醒一下啦我還沒講完你們都一直打斷我很奇怪院長帶頭部長他們這麼害怕我講喔\n\n31\n00:11:36,716 --> 00:11:49,326\n不用害怕我都還沒一句話都還沒論述完你就一直打岔這樣我很難問問題啦好不好這個像捕蜂還有像台南他們的說法他說如果形成規格標的話那成本會上揚嘛那現在就是\n\n32\n00:11:50,540 --> 00:12:08,530\n羊毛住在羊身上如果他們成本上揚那物價勢必會往上攀升會影響到物價那政府這部分有因應嗎是我可以回答嗎就是說現在的狀況是這樣美國我們需要它的黃小玉就是黃豆小麥等等一些情況那那個是我們\n\n33\n00:12:09,631 --> 00:12:21,999\n食料我們養豬的飼料部長你被針對問題回答我剛講說捕蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法嘛你去講到黃小玉幹嘛捕蜂是買黃小玉嗎\n\n34\n00:12:24,193 --> 00:12:49,043\n我跟委員報告因為這是農業部在協助的第一個部分整個的農防團裡面你剛才講的浦芳就是他們浦芳的飼料工會會不會造成物價上漲不會聯合採購可能會降低它的進口成本所以不會造成物價上漲對它反而會降低進口成本所以我三個原則講一下就是一個我們進口需要的\n\n35\n00:12:49,543 --> 00:13:15,190\n一個是畜牧業他買飼料需要的第三個是要保護消費者的權利這三個原則這是企業的邏輯是說以前他有需要他可以跟各國去買現在如果是配合政府擴大只跟單一國家買那他認為成本會提高嗎不會這個是聯合採購的優越那你覺得不會你要講一個跟他們溝通因為如果成本提高我擔心的是物價會提高\n\n36\n00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:33,593\n那你如果認為不會那你們可以跟企業講然後再來因為沒有很多時間我希望不要一直打岔我想問一下預算的問題明年總預算送過來是350億比今年的總預算還高因為今年最後決算是\n\n37\n00:13:35,273 --> 00:13:54,807\n兩兆九千多億嘛明年的預算又變多了如果加上追加預算的話明年比今年只會多222億反正明年有變多第一個明年變多第二個是中央要給地方的錢一直在砍嘛比如說我是新北市你們給我們新北市的捷運砍了大概九十億明年就砍了九十億\n\n38\n00:13:55,507 --> 00:14:20,437\n所以中央的預算膨脹然後給地方錢又變少情況之下明年中央的預算其實是可支用的是變比較多啊多很多現在按照你們的規劃那我現在是有兩個問題第一個因為我們今天討論的是那個韌性韌性的部分有很多預算看起來好像不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡比如說像這一個是要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫這個東西\n\n39\n00:14:23,793 --> 00:14:44,049\n這個東西當然我覺得要做可是實際上你這個跟年度預算又很像請問一下明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算沒有編這個項目因為我們考慮到說關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧所以編在這個裡面\n\n40\n00:14:45,642 --> 00:15:14,083\n那你年度預算裡面有沒有編強化的獨居所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人都沒有在關懷獨居老人沒有重疊沒有單獨這一項有一般的社會福利那第二個我想問一下因為現在地方政府常常感覺開盲盒啦譬如說我剛講的捷運他去申請跟中央申請補助的時候中央忽然講說對不起明年我少給你72%他說我現在還知道那為什麼不能一次跟地方\n\n41\n00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:44,558\n好謝謝好謝謝葉仁智委員資訊也謝謝卓院長相關部會首長貝馨謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n91\t111\t卑詩\n10417\t38240\t葉文豪院長好早上聽你的報告你提到說現在發這1萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力我覺得您這種態度就對了早上我也看到您很委屈的在澄清就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發可不發或者是說沒有說可發然後不發然後你在澄清你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎\n40101\t68315\t因為你一開始的時候的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣我們一開始是希望說政府不舉債我們用到需要的地方去那你講話的方式嘛我現在建議你嘛不要造成國人的誤會嘛因為你一開始就說一萬塊遙控飛機買了冰箱買了就沒啦好像這一萬塊大家沒什麼需要我們希望說國家需要的地方我們七砂成塔用在那個地方去還有就是你們執政黨的立委還有講說這個發一萬塊錢就是配合中共窮台啦\n69255\t97743\t認知作戰或統戰啊講得好像領這個一萬塊錢很不堪啊剛剛也有委員之意我們比賽再增高這也是有相關的啊我這只是建議啦齁如果一開始的時候其實大家採取比較正面的態度用討論的用促成的方式而不是一直批評我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦對國家的價值認定不同就像您今天早上的態度讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實\n98743\t117937\t就很棒啊就是因為之前變來變去態度就前後變來變去大家才會產生因為我們已經決定要舉債了我們就可以花出去的比較多就是這樣子而已你講的跟我不同事情我講的是你的態度前後不一樣那你之前要舉債現在舉債不是一樣而且你變了很多其他的預算舉債也不是說\n120358\t141729\t舉債也不是說純粹是因為這個事情舉債啦我們在編任性條例跟預算之後我們是希望這筆錢4100億是不舉債的你有的東西跟舉債沒有關嘛你有的是講話的態度的問題嘛遙控飛機 冰箱我也很快的跟你確定一下幾個啦現在時程上面 因為既然要發了我覺得大家就會很期待\n142669\t168659\t執政上如果立法院十月中過去可以那個送出立法院那我有看你回答其他委員的回答做了很多先前作業然後這些東西可不可以給一個比較明確的日期月底感覺比較有困難嘛因為早上回答是比較有困難那現在大概什麼時候之前一定做到總算個目標不然早是講一個比較空洞的大家會比較一個月大概什麼時候\n169992\t197704\t11月中以前一定會發那是大院審理完成通過之後總統公告之後11個月假設10月中一定送出去的話你是11月中以前一定會發嗎我認為總統也好我們也會請總統能夠緊述公告他就生效生效一個月內就可以一個月所以我們數學很簡單數學10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發\n198644\t225695\t這是確定的嘛但是如果說動作更快的話就可以更早嘛能快就快但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延那個是細節我講的就是一個月嘛就是十月中嘛謝謝那大家就是至少十月中就可以這個期待然後第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的就是有登記路障ATM領取郵局領取直接路障跟照冊發放不會再多了嘛\n226195\t246363\t本來就沒有再多然後在這個系統的設計上也不會變來變去我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去一下說研議不領取的這個選項一下又說不用研議不領取選項當民間的團體來跟我們做這種意見的表達的時候我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能你研議了多久\n247538\t264471\t研議完全不影響這個程序啊我們9月11號你後來是研議之後是覺得什麼因素所以不做我們認為這個對各自的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險所以我們就停下來其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設這個不領取\n265952\t292377\t因為其實你們到最後發放完之後都可以確定有多少人是不領取就以2023年發放最後是有7萬人不領取我怎麼知道因為最後就算得出來所以你去偵測一個不領取這就多此一舉因為院長您是行政院長講話都是會讓人家覺得這個會往那個方向去院長說要研議不領取大家就覺得會不會到時候真的會出現一個不領取的選項\n293646\t309697\t但是實際上你們兩個要搖頭所以根本不可能嘛延誼的過程完全沒有延後任何的時間院長用詞譴制方面可能要稍微留意一下因為你講一句話國人就討論了國人就會覺得哇賽連這個都要設不理取委員很多建議我們也都是延誼啊\n311359\t334741\t但是我們建議很多都有建設性謝謝委員再來我想問一下預算的問題順便問一下因為像這個光復箱剛剛講說有五種領取方式因為光復箱那邊有的證件被沖走了有的ATM也被沖走ATM也沒有了請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放\n337628\t364165\t基本上我們還是維持這樣的一個方式因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月那當然是先要協助光復鄉的國人們能夠盡快把相關的證件能夠補辦起來因為除了這個領一萬塊還有其他也需要使用那我想各部會都在協助他們不管是健保卡身份證等等都在協助那如果在那個特別有需要的話我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式專案方式是\n364805\t392307\t對 但是目前那個六個月時間其實是夠長的我想那個時候證件應該你們會第一個就是先讓他們想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊然後再來ATM的這些設施趕快恢復但如果真的有特殊狀況的話用專案來處理我們再來做專案處理我們先用一站式的服務健保卡 身分證 郵局 還有農會如果需要這個證件我們用一站式的服務而且現在我們據你所知護證所已經恢復它的基本功能好 謝謝\n393167\t397951\t再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算現在產業支持是規劃了780億請問一下780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的\n406721\t422571\t支持產業的部分因為你現在用對等關稅32%或者是20%你所評估出來的預算產業支持的預算當初應該是不一樣嘛那你780億是根據什麼依據部長來詳細說明在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候我們是用高推估30%是幾%780億是根據幾%估出來大致上也是差不多30左右\n435026\t443071\t是用30%就是關稅30%所以換句話說因為現在關稅是20%加N嘛如果之後現在繼續談談到後來假設20%可以降下來就不會花到781這麼多是這個意思嗎\n454958\t469291\t也不一定 因為談的過程當中我們可能也會有一些讓利所以你當初是比較高估嗎因為政府一直告訴我們說20%加N是暫時性關稅所以理論上按照政府講話邏輯應該關稅會降應該不會往上增到30%因為包括委員 因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅還有什麼\n477678\t494429\t匯率或其他的問題所以這是一個粗估切巴士是一個粗估最後用多少不知道因為剛剛部長也講了國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多你剛剛不確定性很高我這邊提醒幾個我想請教一下第一個\n495816\t513791\t因為美方傳出來消息是希望我們晶片是五五分但我們政府已經拒絕了然後我們提出來一個方案是說擴大去美國投資可以用G2G的方式然後類似成立在美國成立科學園區這個事情是確實的嗎\n516878\t530474\t巴爾委員是這樣就是說台灣產業的成功它有一個型態就是一個群聚 聚落 Cluster我知道 我就確認一下因為我們過去來講我們這個群聚是不是確定就是我沒有提這個方案\n531414\t546497\t就是鼓勵我們的企業整合然後去那邊設科學園區是不是有提出這樣的方案跟美方表達就是產業要成功的話一定要形成一個聚落\n547217\t571981\t這個我知道啦我是問有沒有這件事嘛有或還是沒有嘛那園區是一個形態有嘛那就是有嘛為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆不要拖時間啦因為我們有時間有限那我是想問說那你有考慮到整個產業過去之後因為他還要帶那個產業鏈嘛然後很多企業會過去假設以科學園區的規模的話那那麼多公司他的投資資本是有限的\n572541\t597816\t過去投資多一點在台灣投資就會少一點可能會造成台灣產業空洞化經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情不會 我們已經先隸屬台灣佈局全球所以隸屬台灣當然口號是這樣可是資本就是這樣他的資本過去之後他能夠等一下 我還沒有講等一下 等一下還沒有講他的資本就是這麼多他投資美國資本比較多當然投資台灣就會少一點\n598916\t626224\t因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源嘛你現在主要都是用民間資源嗎報告委員就是說如果他那邊有訂單形成可以有經濟規模他當然會過去但是有一些小的企業他沒有辦法他可能在只能取一地而已所以我們會在這種情況下我們會要求他的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在台灣做然後供應給他那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模啊\n627199\t655080\t沒有 他可以跟我們形成一個很好的我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G2地方成立一個科學園區的規模我是擔心說投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化你沒有回答我的問題我說不會啊第二個 曾經你們有一個方案是說要跟美國鼓勵我們的企業跟美國去買農產品大概四年要一百億美金對吧 這是有的\n655919\t674634\t我們的工協會跟一些主要的產業然後也不會用到納稅人的錢但是這個可能也會造成一個問題因為我看到一些企業像捕風或者是台糖他們的說法是說他們也願意配合企業可是他們以前在買東西的時候因為可以跟各國去買那現在如果說要擴大跟美國投資變成規格標\n676736\t693753\t那勢必會提高成本我想他有三個思考再請部長一個就是我們的進口需要的我們從各方來買我講的是企業直接的回復啦我提醒一下啦我還沒講完你們都一直打斷我很奇怪院長帶頭部長他們這麼害怕我講喔\n696716\t709326\t不用害怕我都還沒一句話都還沒論述完你就一直打岔這樣我很難問問題啦好不好這個像捕蜂還有像台南他們的說法他說如果形成規格標的話那成本會上揚嘛那現在就是\n710540\t728530\t羊毛住在羊身上如果他們成本上揚那物價勢必會往上攀升會影響到物價那政府這部分有因應嗎是 我可以回答嗎就是說現在的狀況是這樣美國我們需要它的黃小玉就是黃豆 小麥等等一些情況那那個是我們\n729631\t741999\t食料 我們養豬的飼料部長你被針對問題回答我剛講說捕蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法嘛你去講到黃小玉幹嘛捕蜂是買黃小玉嗎\n744193\t769043\t我跟委員報告因為這是農業部在協助的第一個部分 整個的農防團裡面你剛才講的浦芳就是他們浦芳的飼料工會會不會造成物價上漲不會 聯合採購可能會降低它的進口成本所以不會造成物價上漲對 它反而會降低進口成本所以我三個原則講一下就是一個我們進口需要的\n769543\t795190\t一個是畜牧業他買飼料需要的第三個是要保護消費者的權利這三個原則這是企業的邏輯是說以前他有需要他可以跟各國去買現在如果是配合政府擴大只跟單一國家買那他認為成本會提高嗎不會 這個是聯合採購的優越那你覺得不會你要講一個跟他們溝通因為如果成本提高我擔心的是物價會提高\n796030\t813593\t那你如果認為不會那你們可以跟企業講然後再來因為沒有很多時間我希望不要一直打岔我想問一下預算的問題明年總預算送過來是350億比今年的總預算還高因為今年最後決算是\n815273\t834807\t兩兆九千多億嘛明年的預算又變多了如果加上追加預算的話明年比今年只會多222億反正明年有變多第一個明年變多第二個是中央要給地方的錢一直在砍嘛比如說我是新北市你們給我們新北市的捷運砍了大概九十億明年就砍了九十億\n835507\t860437\t所以中央的預算膨脹然後給地方錢又變少情況之下明年中央的預算其實是可支用的是變比較多啊多很多現在按照你們的規劃那我現在是有兩個問題第一個因為我們今天討論的是那個韌性韌性的部分有很多預算看起來好像不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡比如說像這一個是要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫這個東西\n863793\t884049\t這個東西當然我覺得要做可是實際上你這個跟年度預算又很像請問一下明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算沒有編這個項目因為我們考慮到說關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧所以編在這個裡面\n885642\t914083\t那你年度預算裡面有沒有編強化的獨居所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人都沒有在關懷獨居老人沒有重疊沒有單獨這一項 有一般的社會福利那第二個我想問一下因為現在地方政府常常感覺開盲盒啦譬如說我剛講的捷運他去申請跟中央申請補助的時候中央忽然講說對不起明年我少給你72%他說我現在還知道那為什麼不能一次跟地方\n922679\t944558\t好 謝謝好 謝謝葉仁智委員資訊也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝馨 謝謝\n","txt":"卑詩\n葉文豪院長好早上聽你的報告你提到說現在發這1萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力我覺得您這種態度就對了早上我也看到您很委屈的在澄清就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發可不發或者是說沒有說可發然後不發然後你在澄清你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎\n因為你一開始的時候的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣我們一開始是希望說政府不舉債我們用到需要的地方去那你講話的方式嘛我現在建議你嘛不要造成國人的誤會嘛因為你一開始就說一萬塊遙控飛機買了冰箱買了就沒啦好像這一萬塊大家沒什麼需要我們希望說國家需要的地方我們七砂成塔用在那個地方去還有就是你們執政黨的立委還有講說這個發一萬塊錢就是配合中共窮台啦\n認知作戰或統戰啊講得好像領這個一萬塊錢很不堪啊剛剛也有委員之意我們比賽再增高這也是有相關的啊我這只是建議啦齁如果一開始的時候其實大家採取比較正面的態度用討論的用促成的方式而不是一直批評我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦對國家的價值認定不同就像您今天早上的態度讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實\n就很棒啊就是因為之前變來變去態度就前後變來變去大家才會產生因為我們已經決定要舉債了我們就可以花出去的比較多就是這樣子而已你講的跟我不同事情我講的是你的態度前後不一樣那你之前要舉債現在舉債不是一樣而且你變了很多其他的預算舉債也不是說\n舉債也不是說純粹是因為這個事情舉債啦我們在編任性條例跟預算之後我們是希望這筆錢4100億是不舉債的你有的東西跟舉債沒有關嘛你有的是講話的態度的問題嘛遙控飛機 冰箱我也很快的跟你確定一下幾個啦現在時程上面 因為既然要發了我覺得大家就會很期待\n執政上如果立法院十月中過去可以那個送出立法院那我有看你回答其他委員的回答做了很多先前作業然後這些東西可不可以給一個比較明確的日期月底感覺比較有困難嘛因為早上回答是比較有困難那現在大概什麼時候之前一定做到總算個目標不然早是講一個比較空洞的大家會比較一個月大概什麼時候\n11月中以前一定會發那是大院審理完成通過之後總統公告之後11個月假設10月中一定送出去的話你是11月中以前一定會發嗎我認為總統也好我們也會請總統能夠緊述公告他就生效生效一個月內就可以一個月所以我們數學很簡單數學10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發\n這是確定的嘛但是如果說動作更快的話就可以更早嘛能快就快但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延那個是細節我講的就是一個月嘛就是十月中嘛謝謝那大家就是至少十月中就可以這個期待然後第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的就是有登記路障ATM領取郵局領取直接路障跟照冊發放不會再多了嘛\n本來就沒有再多然後在這個系統的設計上也不會變來變去我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去一下說研議不領取的這個選項一下又說不用研議不領取選項當民間的團體來跟我們做這種意見的表達的時候我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能你研議了多久\n研議完全不影響這個程序啊我們9月11號你後來是研議之後是覺得什麼因素所以不做我們認為這個對各自的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險所以我們就停下來其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設這個不領取\n因為其實你們到最後發放完之後都可以確定有多少人是不領取就以2023年發放最後是有7萬人不領取我怎麼知道因為最後就算得出來所以你去偵測一個不領取這就多此一舉因為院長您是行政院長講話都是會讓人家覺得這個會往那個方向去院長說要研議不領取大家就覺得會不會到時候真的會出現一個不領取的選項\n但是實際上你們兩個要搖頭所以根本不可能嘛延誼的過程完全沒有延後任何的時間院長用詞譴制方面可能要稍微留意一下因為你講一句話國人就討論了國人就會覺得哇賽連這個都要設不理取委員很多建議我們也都是延誼啊\n但是我們建議很多都有建設性謝謝委員再來我想問一下預算的問題順便問一下因為像這個光復箱剛剛講說有五種領取方式因為光復箱那邊有的證件被沖走了有的ATM也被沖走ATM也沒有了請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放\n基本上我們還是維持這樣的一個方式因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月那當然是先要協助光復鄉的國人們能夠盡快把相關的證件能夠補辦起來因為除了這個領一萬塊還有其他也需要使用那我想各部會都在協助他們不管是健保卡身份證等等都在協助那如果在那個特別有需要的話我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式專案方式是\n對 但是目前那個六個月時間其實是夠長的我想那個時候證件應該你們會第一個就是先讓他們想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊然後再來ATM的這些設施趕快恢復但如果真的有特殊狀況的話用專案來處理我們再來做專案處理我們先用一站式的服務健保卡 身分證 郵局 還有農會如果需要這個證件我們用一站式的服務而且現在我們據你所知護證所已經恢復它的基本功能好 謝謝\n再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算現在產業支持是規劃了780億請問一下780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的\n支持產業的部分因為你現在用對等關稅32%或者是20%你所評估出來的預算產業支持的預算當初應該是不一樣嘛那你780億是根據什麼依據部長來詳細說明在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候我們是用高推估30%是幾%780億是根據幾%估出來大致上也是差不多30左右\n是用30%就是關稅30%所以換句話說因為現在關稅是20%加N嘛如果之後現在繼續談談到後來假設20%可以降下來就不會花到781這麼多是這個意思嗎\n也不一定 因為談的過程當中我們可能也會有一些讓利所以你當初是比較高估嗎因為政府一直告訴我們說20%加N是暫時性關稅所以理論上按照政府講話邏輯應該關稅會降應該不會往上增到30%因為包括委員 因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅還有什麼\n匯率或其他的問題所以這是一個粗估切巴士是一個粗估最後用多少不知道因為剛剛部長也講了國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多你剛剛不確定性很高我這邊提醒幾個我想請教一下第一個\n因為美方傳出來消息是希望我們晶片是五五分但我們政府已經拒絕了然後我們提出來一個方案是說擴大去美國投資可以用G2G的方式然後類似成立在美國成立科學園區這個事情是確實的嗎\n巴爾委員是這樣就是說台灣產業的成功它有一個型態就是一個群聚 聚落 Cluster我知道 我就確認一下因為我們過去來講我們這個群聚是不是確定就是我沒有提這個方案\n就是鼓勵我們的企業整合然後去那邊設科學園區是不是有提出這樣的方案跟美方表達就是產業要成功的話一定要形成一個聚落\n這個我知道啦我是問有沒有這件事嘛有或還是沒有嘛那園區是一個形態有嘛那就是有嘛為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆不要拖時間啦因為我們有時間有限那我是想問說那你有考慮到整個產業過去之後因為他還要帶那個產業鏈嘛然後很多企業會過去假設以科學園區的規模的話那那麼多公司他的投資資本是有限的\n過去投資多一點在台灣投資就會少一點可能會造成台灣產業空洞化經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情不會 我們已經先隸屬台灣佈局全球所以隸屬台灣當然口號是這樣可是資本就是這樣他的資本過去之後他能夠等一下 我還沒有講等一下 等一下還沒有講他的資本就是這麼多他投資美國資本比較多當然投資台灣就會少一點\n因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源嘛你現在主要都是用民間資源嗎報告委員就是說如果他那邊有訂單形成可以有經濟規模他當然會過去但是有一些小的企業他沒有辦法他可能在只能取一地而已所以我們會在這種情況下我們會要求他的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在台灣做然後供應給他那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模啊\n沒有 他可以跟我們形成一個很好的我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G2地方成立一個科學園區的規模我是擔心說投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化你沒有回答我的問題我說不會啊第二個 曾經你們有一個方案是說要跟美國鼓勵我們的企業跟美國去買農產品大概四年要一百億美金對吧 這是有的\n我們的工協會跟一些主要的產業然後也不會用到納稅人的錢但是這個可能也會造成一個問題因為我看到一些企業像捕風或者是台糖他們的說法是說他們也願意配合企業可是他們以前在買東西的時候因為可以跟各國去買那現在如果說要擴大跟美國投資變成規格標\n那勢必會提高成本我想他有三個思考再請部長一個就是我們的進口需要的我們從各方來買我講的是企業直接的回復啦我提醒一下啦我還沒講完你們都一直打斷我很奇怪院長帶頭部長他們這麼害怕我講喔\n不用害怕我都還沒一句話都還沒論述完你就一直打岔這樣我很難問問題啦好不好這個像捕蜂還有像台南他們的說法他說如果形成規格標的話那成本會上揚嘛那現在就是\n羊毛住在羊身上如果他們成本上揚那物價勢必會往上攀升會影響到物價那政府這部分有因應嗎是 我可以回答嗎就是說現在的狀況是這樣美國我們需要它的黃小玉就是黃豆 小麥等等一些情況那那個是我們\n食料 我們養豬的飼料部長你被針對問題回答我剛講說捕蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法嘛你去講到黃小玉幹嘛捕蜂是買黃小玉嗎\n我跟委員報告因為這是農業部在協助的第一個部分 整個的農防團裡面你剛才講的浦芳就是他們浦芳的飼料工會會不會造成物價上漲不會 聯合採購可能會降低它的進口成本所以不會造成物價上漲對 它反而會降低進口成本所以我三個原則講一下就是一個我們進口需要的\n一個是畜牧業他買飼料需要的第三個是要保護消費者的權利這三個原則這是企業的邏輯是說以前他有需要他可以跟各國去買現在如果是配合政府擴大只跟單一國家買那他認為成本會提高嗎不會 這個是聯合採購的優越那你覺得不會你要講一個跟他們溝通因為如果成本提高我擔心的是物價會提高\n那你如果認為不會那你們可以跟企業講然後再來因為沒有很多時間我希望不要一直打岔我想問一下預算的問題明年總預算送過來是350億比今年的總預算還高因為今年最後決算是\n兩兆九千多億嘛明年的預算又變多了如果加上追加預算的話明年比今年只會多222億反正明年有變多第一個明年變多第二個是中央要給地方的錢一直在砍嘛比如說我是新北市你們給我們新北市的捷運砍了大概九十億明年就砍了九十億\n所以中央的預算膨脹然後給地方錢又變少情況之下明年中央的預算其實是可支用的是變比較多啊多很多現在按照你們的規劃那我現在是有兩個問題第一個因為我們今天討論的是那個韌性韌性的部分有很多預算看起來好像不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡比如說像這一個是要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫這個東西\n這個東西當然我覺得要做可是實際上你這個跟年度預算又很像請問一下明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算沒有編這個項目因為我們考慮到說關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧所以編在這個裡面\n那你年度預算裡面有沒有編強化的獨居所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人都沒有在關懷獨居老人沒有重疊沒有單獨這一項 有一般的社會福利那第二個我想問一下因為現在地方政府常常感覺開盲盒啦譬如說我剛講的捷運他去申請跟中央申請補助的時候中央忽然講說對不起明年我少給你72%他說我現在還知道那為什麼不能一次跟地方\n好 謝謝好 謝謝葉仁智委員資訊也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝馨 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:00.091 --> 00:00.111\n卑詩\n\n00:10.417 --> 00:38.240\n葉文豪院長好早上聽你的報告你提到說現在發這1萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力我覺得您這種態度就對了早上我也看到您很委屈的在澄清就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發可不發或者是說沒有說可發然後不發然後你在澄清你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎\n\n00:40.101 --> 01:08.315\n因為你一開始的時候的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣我們一開始是希望說政府不舉債我們用到需要的地方去那你講話的方式嘛我現在建議你嘛不要造成國人的誤會嘛因為你一開始就說一萬塊遙控飛機買了冰箱買了就沒啦好像這一萬塊大家沒什麼需要我們希望說國家需要的地方我們七砂成塔用在那個地方去還有就是你們執政黨的立委還有講說這個發一萬塊錢就是配合中共窮台啦\n\n01:09.255 --> 01:37.743\n認知作戰或統戰啊講得好像領這個一萬塊錢很不堪啊剛剛也有委員之意我們比賽再增高這也是有相關的啊我這只是建議啦齁如果一開始的時候其實大家採取比較正面的態度用討論的用促成的方式而不是一直批評我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦對國家的價值認定不同就像您今天早上的態度讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實\n\n01:38.743 --> 01:57.937\n就很棒啊就是因為之前變來變去態度就前後變來變去大家才會產生因為我們已經決定要舉債了我們就可以花出去的比較多就是這樣子而已你講的跟我不同事情我講的是你的態度前後不一樣那你之前要舉債現在舉債不是一樣而且你變了很多其他的預算舉債也不是說\n\n02:00.358 --> 02:21.729\n舉債也不是說純粹是因為這個事情舉債啦我們在編任性條例跟預算之後我們是希望這筆錢4100億是不舉債的你有的東西跟舉債沒有關嘛你有的是講話的態度的問題嘛遙控飛機冰箱我也很快的跟你確定一下幾個啦現在時程上面因為既然要發了我覺得大家就會很期待\n\n02:22.669 --> 02:48.659\n執政上如果立法院十月中過去可以那個送出立法院那我有看你回答其他委員的回答做了很多先前作業然後這些東西可不可以給一個比較明確的日期月底感覺比較有困難嘛因為早上回答是比較有困難那現在大概什麼時候之前一定做到總算個目標不然早是講一個比較空洞的大家會比較一個月大概什麼時候\n\n02:49.992 --> 03:17.704\n11月中以前一定會發那是大院審理完成通過之後總統公告之後11個月假設10月中一定送出去的話你是11月中以前一定會發嗎我認為總統也好我們也會請總統能夠緊述公告他就生效生效一個月內就可以一個月所以我們數學很簡單數學10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發\n\n03:18.644 --> 03:45.695\n這是確定的嘛但是如果說動作更快的話就可以更早嘛能快就快但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延那個是細節我講的就是一個月嘛就是十月中嘛謝謝那大家就是至少十月中就可以這個期待然後第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的就是有登記路障ATM領取郵局領取直接路障跟照冊發放不會再多了嘛\n\n03:46.195 --> 04:06.363\n本來就沒有再多然後在這個系統的設計上也不會變來變去我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去一下說研議不領取的這個選項一下又說不用研議不領取選項當民間的團體來跟我們做這種意見的表達的時候我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能你研議了多久\n\n04:07.538 --> 04:24.471\n研議完全不影響這個程序啊我們9月11號你後來是研議之後是覺得什麼因素所以不做我們認為這個對各自的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險所以我們就停下來其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設這個不領取\n\n04:25.952 --> 04:52.377\n因為其實你們到最後發放完之後都可以確定有多少人是不領取就以2023年發放最後是有7萬人不領取我怎麼知道因為最後就算得出來所以你去偵測一個不領取這就多此一舉因為院長您是行政院長講話都是會讓人家覺得這個會往那個方向去院長說要研議不領取大家就覺得會不會到時候真的會出現一個不領取的選項\n\n04:53.646 --> 05:09.697\n但是實際上你們兩個要搖頭所以根本不可能嘛延誼的過程完全沒有延後任何的時間院長用詞譴制方面可能要稍微留意一下因為你講一句話國人就討論了國人就會覺得哇賽連這個都要設不理取委員很多建議我們也都是延誼啊\n\n05:11.359 --> 05:34.741\n但是我們建議很多都有建設性謝謝委員再來我想問一下預算的問題順便問一下因為像這個光復箱剛剛講說有五種領取方式因為光復箱那邊有的證件被沖走了有的ATM也被沖走ATM也沒有了請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放\n\n05:37.628 --> 06:04.165\n基本上我們還是維持這樣的一個方式因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月那當然是先要協助光復鄉的國人們能夠盡快把相關的證件能夠補辦起來因為除了這個領一萬塊還有其他也需要使用那我想各部會都在協助他們不管是健保卡身份證等等都在協助那如果在那個特別有需要的話我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式專案方式是\n\n06:04.805 --> 06:32.307\n對但是目前那個六個月時間其實是夠長的我想那個時候證件應該你們會第一個就是先讓他們想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊然後再來ATM的這些設施趕快恢復但如果真的有特殊狀況的話用專案來處理我們再來做專案處理我們先用一站式的服務健保卡身分證郵局還有農會如果需要這個證件我們用一站式的服務而且現在我們據你所知護證所已經恢復它的基本功能好謝謝\n\n06:33.167 --> 06:37.951\n再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算現在產業支持是規劃了780億請問一下780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的\n\n06:46.721 --> 07:02.571\n支持產業的部分因為你現在用對等關稅32%或者是20%你所評估出來的預算產業支持的預算當初應該是不一樣嘛那你780億是根據什麼依據部長來詳細說明在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候我們是用高推估30%是幾%780億是根據幾%估出來大致上也是差不多30左右\n\n07:15.026 --> 07:23.071\n是用30%就是關稅30%所以換句話說因為現在關稅是20%加N嘛如果之後現在繼續談談到後來假設20%可以降下來就不會花到781這麼多是這個意思嗎\n\n07:34.958 --> 07:49.291\n也不一定因為談的過程當中我們可能也會有一些讓利所以你當初是比較高估嗎因為政府一直告訴我們說20%加N是暫時性關稅所以理論上按照政府講話邏輯應該關稅會降應該不會往上增到30%因為包括委員因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅還有什麼\n\n07:57.678 --> 08:14.429\n匯率或其他的問題所以這是一個粗估切巴士是一個粗估最後用多少不知道因為剛剛部長也講了國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多你剛剛不確定性很高我這邊提醒幾個我想請教一下第一個\n\n08:15.816 --> 08:33.791\n因為美方傳出來消息是希望我們晶片是五五分但我們政府已經拒絕了然後我們提出來一個方案是說擴大去美國投資可以用G2G的方式然後類似成立在美國成立科學園區這個事情是確實的嗎\n\n08:36.878 --> 08:50.474\n巴爾委員是這樣就是說台灣產業的成功它有一個型態就是一個群聚聚落Cluster我知道我就確認一下因為我們過去來講我們這個群聚是不是確定就是我沒有提這個方案\n\n08:51.414 --> 09:06.497\n就是鼓勵我們的企業整合然後去那邊設科學園區是不是有提出這樣的方案跟美方表達就是產業要成功的話一定要形成一個聚落\n\n09:07.217 --> 09:31.981\n這個我知道啦我是問有沒有這件事嘛有或還是沒有嘛那園區是一個形態有嘛那就是有嘛為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆不要拖時間啦因為我們有時間有限那我是想問說那你有考慮到整個產業過去之後因為他還要帶那個產業鏈嘛然後很多企業會過去假設以科學園區的規模的話那那麼多公司他的投資資本是有限的\n\n09:32.541 --> 09:57.816\n過去投資多一點在台灣投資就會少一點可能會造成台灣產業空洞化經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情不會我們已經先隸屬台灣佈局全球所以隸屬台灣當然口號是這樣可是資本就是這樣他的資本過去之後他能夠等一下我還沒有講等一下等一下還沒有講他的資本就是這麼多他投資美國資本比較多當然投資台灣就會少一點\n\n09:58.916 --> 10:26.224\n因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源嘛你現在主要都是用民間資源嗎報告委員就是說如果他那邊有訂單形成可以有經濟規模他當然會過去但是有一些小的企業他沒有辦法他可能在只能取一地而已所以我們會在這種情況下我們會要求他的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在台灣做然後供應給他那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模啊\n\n10:27.199 --> 10:55.080\n沒有他可以跟我們形成一個很好的我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G2地方成立一個科學園區的規模我是擔心說投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化你沒有回答我的問題我說不會啊第二個曾經你們有一個方案是說要跟美國鼓勵我們的企業跟美國去買農產品大概四年要一百億美金對吧這是有的\n\n10:55.919 --> 11:14.634\n我們的工協會跟一些主要的產業然後也不會用到納稅人的錢但是這個可能也會造成一個問題因為我看到一些企業像捕風或者是台糖他們的說法是說他們也願意配合企業可是他們以前在買東西的時候因為可以跟各國去買那現在如果說要擴大跟美國投資變成規格標\n\n11:16.736 --> 11:33.753\n那勢必會提高成本我想他有三個思考再請部長一個就是我們的進口需要的我們從各方來買我講的是企業直接的回復啦我提醒一下啦我還沒講完你們都一直打斷我很奇怪院長帶頭部長他們這麼害怕我講喔\n\n11:36.716 --> 11:49.326\n不用害怕我都還沒一句話都還沒論述完你就一直打岔這樣我很難問問題啦好不好這個像捕蜂還有像台南他們的說法他說如果形成規格標的話那成本會上揚嘛那現在就是\n\n11:50.540 --> 12:08.530\n羊毛住在羊身上如果他們成本上揚那物價勢必會往上攀升會影響到物價那政府這部分有因應嗎是我可以回答嗎就是說現在的狀況是這樣美國我們需要它的黃小玉就是黃豆小麥等等一些情況那那個是我們\n\n12:09.631 --> 12:21.999\n食料我們養豬的飼料部長你被針對問題回答我剛講說捕蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法嘛你去講到黃小玉幹嘛捕蜂是買黃小玉嗎\n\n12:24.193 --> 12:49.043\n我跟委員報告因為這是農業部在協助的第一個部分整個的農防團裡面你剛才講的浦芳就是他們浦芳的飼料工會會不會造成物價上漲不會聯合採購可能會降低它的進口成本所以不會造成物價上漲對它反而會降低進口成本所以我三個原則講一下就是一個我們進口需要的\n\n12:49.543 --> 13:15.190\n一個是畜牧業他買飼料需要的第三個是要保護消費者的權利這三個原則這是企業的邏輯是說以前他有需要他可以跟各國去買現在如果是配合政府擴大只跟單一國家買那他認為成本會提高嗎不會這個是聯合採購的優越那你覺得不會你要講一個跟他們溝通因為如果成本提高我擔心的是物價會提高\n\n13:16.030 --> 13:33.593\n那你如果認為不會那你們可以跟企業講然後再來因為沒有很多時間我希望不要一直打岔我想問一下預算的問題明年總預算送過來是350億比今年的總預算還高因為今年最後決算是\n\n13:35.273 --> 13:54.807\n兩兆九千多億嘛明年的預算又變多了如果加上追加預算的話明年比今年只會多222億反正明年有變多第一個明年變多第二個是中央要給地方的錢一直在砍嘛比如說我是新北市你們給我們新北市的捷運砍了大概九十億明年就砍了九十億\n\n13:55.507 --> 14:20.437\n所以中央的預算膨脹然後給地方錢又變少情況之下明年中央的預算其實是可支用的是變比較多啊多很多現在按照你們的規劃那我現在是有兩個問題第一個因為我們今天討論的是那個韌性韌性的部分有很多預算看起來好像不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡比如說像這一個是要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫這個東西\n\n14:23.793 --> 14:44.049\n這個東西當然我覺得要做可是實際上你這個跟年度預算又很像請問一下明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算沒有編這個項目因為我們考慮到說關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧所以編在這個裡面\n\n14:45.642 --> 15:14.083\n那你年度預算裡面有沒有編強化的獨居所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人都沒有在關懷獨居老人沒有重疊沒有單獨這一項有一般的社會福利那第二個我想問一下因為現在地方政府常常感覺開盲盒啦譬如說我剛講的捷運他去申請跟中央申請補助的時候中央忽然講說對不起明年我少給你72%他說我現在還知道那為什麼不能一次跟地方\n\n15:22.679 --> 15:44.558\n好謝謝好謝謝葉仁智委員資訊也謝謝卓院長相關部會首長貝馨謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":0.091,"end":0.111,"text":"卑詩"},{"start":10.417,"end":38.24,"text":"葉文豪院長好早上聽你的報告你提到說現在發這1萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力我覺得您這種態度就對了早上我也看到您很委屈的在澄清就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發可不發或者是說沒有說可發然後不發然後你在澄清你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎"},{"start":40.101,"end":68.315,"text":"因為你一開始的時候的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣我們一開始是希望說政府不舉債我們用到需要的地方去那你講話的方式嘛我現在建議你嘛不要造成國人的誤會嘛因為你一開始就說一萬塊遙控飛機買了冰箱買了就沒啦好像這一萬塊大家沒什麼需要我們希望說國家需要的地方我們七砂成塔用在那個地方去還有就是你們執政黨的立委還有講說這個發一萬塊錢就是配合中共窮台啦"},{"start":69.255,"end":97.743,"text":"認知作戰或統戰啊講得好像領這個一萬塊錢很不堪啊剛剛也有委員之意我們比賽再增高這也是有相關的啊我這只是建議啦齁如果一開始的時候其實大家採取比較正面的態度用討論的用促成的方式而不是一直批評我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦對國家的價值認定不同就像您今天早上的態度讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實"},{"start":98.743,"end":117.937,"text":"就很棒啊就是因為之前變來變去態度就前後變來變去大家才會產生因為我們已經決定要舉債了我們就可以花出去的比較多就是這樣子而已你講的跟我不同事情我講的是你的態度前後不一樣那你之前要舉債現在舉債不是一樣而且你變了很多其他的預算舉債也不是說"},{"start":120.358,"end":141.729,"text":"舉債也不是說純粹是因為這個事情舉債啦我們在編任性條例跟預算之後我們是希望這筆錢4100億是不舉債的你有的東西跟舉債沒有關嘛你有的是講話的態度的問題嘛遙控飛機 冰箱我也很快的跟你確定一下幾個啦現在時程上面 因為既然要發了我覺得大家就會很期待"},{"start":142.669,"end":168.659,"text":"執政上如果立法院十月中過去可以那個送出立法院那我有看你回答其他委員的回答做了很多先前作業然後這些東西可不可以給一個比較明確的日期月底感覺比較有困難嘛因為早上回答是比較有困難那現在大概什麼時候之前一定做到總算個目標不然早是講一個比較空洞的大家會比較一個月大概什麼時候"},{"start":169.992,"end":197.704,"text":"11月中以前一定會發那是大院審理完成通過之後總統公告之後11個月假設10月中一定送出去的話你是11月中以前一定會發嗎我認為總統也好我們也會請總統能夠緊述公告他就生效生效一個月內就可以一個月所以我們數學很簡單數學10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發"},{"start":198.644,"end":225.695,"text":"這是確定的嘛但是如果說動作更快的話就可以更早嘛能快就快但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延那個是細節我講的就是一個月嘛就是十月中嘛謝謝那大家就是至少十月中就可以這個期待然後第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的就是有登記路障ATM領取郵局領取直接路障跟照冊發放不會再多了嘛"},{"start":226.195,"end":246.363,"text":"本來就沒有再多然後在這個系統的設計上也不會變來變去我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去一下說研議不領取的這個選項一下又說不用研議不領取選項當民間的團體來跟我們做這種意見的表達的時候我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能你研議了多久"},{"start":247.538,"end":264.471,"text":"研議完全不影響這個程序啊我們9月11號你後來是研議之後是覺得什麼因素所以不做我們認為這個對各自的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險所以我們就停下來其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設這個不領取"},{"start":265.952,"end":292.377,"text":"因為其實你們到最後發放完之後都可以確定有多少人是不領取就以2023年發放最後是有7萬人不領取我怎麼知道因為最後就算得出來所以你去偵測一個不領取這就多此一舉因為院長您是行政院長講話都是會讓人家覺得這個會往那個方向去院長說要研議不領取大家就覺得會不會到時候真的會出現一個不領取的選項"},{"start":293.646,"end":309.697,"text":"但是實際上你們兩個要搖頭所以根本不可能嘛延誼的過程完全沒有延後任何的時間院長用詞譴制方面可能要稍微留意一下因為你講一句話國人就討論了國人就會覺得哇賽連這個都要設不理取委員很多建議我們也都是延誼啊"},{"start":311.359,"end":334.741,"text":"但是我們建議很多都有建設性謝謝委員再來我想問一下預算的問題順便問一下因為像這個光復箱剛剛講說有五種領取方式因為光復箱那邊有的證件被沖走了有的ATM也被沖走ATM也沒有了請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放"},{"start":337.628,"end":364.165,"text":"基本上我們還是維持這樣的一個方式因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月那當然是先要協助光復鄉的國人們能夠盡快把相關的證件能夠補辦起來因為除了這個領一萬塊還有其他也需要使用那我想各部會都在協助他們不管是健保卡身份證等等都在協助那如果在那個特別有需要的話我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式專案方式是"},{"start":364.805,"end":392.307,"text":"對 但是目前那個六個月時間其實是夠長的我想那個時候證件應該你們會第一個就是先讓他們想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊然後再來ATM的這些設施趕快恢復但如果真的有特殊狀況的話用專案來處理我們再來做專案處理我們先用一站式的服務健保卡 身分證 郵局 還有農會如果需要這個證件我們用一站式的服務而且現在我們據你所知護證所已經恢復它的基本功能好 謝謝"},{"start":393.167,"end":397.951,"text":"再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算現在產業支持是規劃了780億請問一下780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的"},{"start":406.721,"end":422.571,"text":"支持產業的部分因為你現在用對等關稅32%或者是20%你所評估出來的預算產業支持的預算當初應該是不一樣嘛那你780億是根據什麼依據部長來詳細說明在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候我們是用高推估30%是幾%780億是根據幾%估出來大致上也是差不多30左右"},{"start":435.026,"end":443.071,"text":"是用30%就是關稅30%所以換句話說因為現在關稅是20%加N嘛如果之後現在繼續談談到後來假設20%可以降下來就不會花到781這麼多是這個意思嗎"},{"start":454.958,"end":469.291,"text":"也不一定 因為談的過程當中我們可能也會有一些讓利所以你當初是比較高估嗎因為政府一直告訴我們說20%加N是暫時性關稅所以理論上按照政府講話邏輯應該關稅會降應該不會往上增到30%因為包括委員 因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅還有什麼"},{"start":477.678,"end":494.429,"text":"匯率或其他的問題所以這是一個粗估切巴士是一個粗估最後用多少不知道因為剛剛部長也講了國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多你剛剛不確定性很高我這邊提醒幾個我想請教一下第一個"},{"start":495.816,"end":513.791,"text":"因為美方傳出來消息是希望我們晶片是五五分但我們政府已經拒絕了然後我們提出來一個方案是說擴大去美國投資可以用G2G的方式然後類似成立在美國成立科學園區這個事情是確實的嗎"},{"start":516.878,"end":530.474,"text":"巴爾委員是這樣就是說台灣產業的成功它有一個型態就是一個群聚 聚落 Cluster我知道 我就確認一下因為我們過去來講我們這個群聚是不是確定就是我沒有提這個方案"},{"start":531.414,"end":546.497,"text":"就是鼓勵我們的企業整合然後去那邊設科學園區是不是有提出這樣的方案跟美方表達就是產業要成功的話一定要形成一個聚落"},{"start":547.217,"end":571.981,"text":"這個我知道啦我是問有沒有這件事嘛有或還是沒有嘛那園區是一個形態有嘛那就是有嘛為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆不要拖時間啦因為我們有時間有限那我是想問說那你有考慮到整個產業過去之後因為他還要帶那個產業鏈嘛然後很多企業會過去假設以科學園區的規模的話那那麼多公司他的投資資本是有限的"},{"start":572.541,"end":597.816,"text":"過去投資多一點在台灣投資就會少一點可能會造成台灣產業空洞化經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情不會 我們已經先隸屬台灣佈局全球所以隸屬台灣當然口號是這樣可是資本就是這樣他的資本過去之後他能夠等一下 我還沒有講等一下 等一下還沒有講他的資本就是這麼多他投資美國資本比較多當然投資台灣就會少一點"},{"start":598.916,"end":626.224,"text":"因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源嘛你現在主要都是用民間資源嗎報告委員就是說如果他那邊有訂單形成可以有經濟規模他當然會過去但是有一些小的企業他沒有辦法他可能在只能取一地而已所以我們會在這種情況下我們會要求他的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在台灣做然後供應給他那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模啊"},{"start":627.199,"end":655.08,"text":"沒有 他可以跟我們形成一個很好的我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G2地方成立一個科學園區的規模我是擔心說投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化你沒有回答我的問題我說不會啊第二個 曾經你們有一個方案是說要跟美國鼓勵我們的企業跟美國去買農產品大概四年要一百億美金對吧 這是有的"},{"start":655.919,"end":674.634,"text":"我們的工協會跟一些主要的產業然後也不會用到納稅人的錢但是這個可能也會造成一個問題因為我看到一些企業像捕風或者是台糖他們的說法是說他們也願意配合企業可是他們以前在買東西的時候因為可以跟各國去買那現在如果說要擴大跟美國投資變成規格標"},{"start":676.736,"end":693.753,"text":"那勢必會提高成本我想他有三個思考再請部長一個就是我們的進口需要的我們從各方來買我講的是企業直接的回復啦我提醒一下啦我還沒講完你們都一直打斷我很奇怪院長帶頭部長他們這麼害怕我講喔"},{"start":696.716,"end":709.326,"text":"不用害怕我都還沒一句話都還沒論述完你就一直打岔這樣我很難問問題啦好不好這個像捕蜂還有像台南他們的說法他說如果形成規格標的話那成本會上揚嘛那現在就是"},{"start":710.54,"end":728.53,"text":"羊毛住在羊身上如果他們成本上揚那物價勢必會往上攀升會影響到物價那政府這部分有因應嗎是 我可以回答嗎就是說現在的狀況是這樣美國我們需要它的黃小玉就是黃豆 小麥等等一些情況那那個是我們"},{"start":729.631,"end":741.999,"text":"食料 我們養豬的飼料部長你被針對問題回答我剛講說捕蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法嘛你去講到黃小玉幹嘛捕蜂是買黃小玉嗎"},{"start":744.193,"end":769.043,"text":"我跟委員報告因為這是農業部在協助的第一個部分 整個的農防團裡面你剛才講的浦芳就是他們浦芳的飼料工會會不會造成物價上漲不會 聯合採購可能會降低它的進口成本所以不會造成物價上漲對 它反而會降低進口成本所以我三個原則講一下就是一個我們進口需要的"},{"start":769.543,"end":795.19,"text":"一個是畜牧業他買飼料需要的第三個是要保護消費者的權利這三個原則這是企業的邏輯是說以前他有需要他可以跟各國去買現在如果是配合政府擴大只跟單一國家買那他認為成本會提高嗎不會 這個是聯合採購的優越那你覺得不會你要講一個跟他們溝通因為如果成本提高我擔心的是物價會提高"},{"start":796.03,"end":813.593,"text":"那你如果認為不會那你們可以跟企業講然後再來因為沒有很多時間我希望不要一直打岔我想問一下預算的問題明年總預算送過來是350億比今年的總預算還高因為今年最後決算是"},{"start":815.273,"end":834.807,"text":"兩兆九千多億嘛明年的預算又變多了如果加上追加預算的話明年比今年只會多222億反正明年有變多第一個明年變多第二個是中央要給地方的錢一直在砍嘛比如說我是新北市你們給我們新北市的捷運砍了大概九十億明年就砍了九十億"},{"start":835.507,"end":860.437,"text":"所以中央的預算膨脹然後給地方錢又變少情況之下明年中央的預算其實是可支用的是變比較多啊多很多現在按照你們的規劃那我現在是有兩個問題第一個因為我們今天討論的是那個韌性韌性的部分有很多預算看起來好像不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡比如說像這一個是要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫這個東西"},{"start":863.793,"end":884.049,"text":"這個東西當然我覺得要做可是實際上你這個跟年度預算又很像請問一下明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算沒有編這個項目因為我們考慮到說關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧所以編在這個裡面"},{"start":885.642,"end":914.083,"text":"那你年度預算裡面有沒有編強化的獨居所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人都沒有在關懷獨居老人沒有重疊沒有單獨這一項 有一般的社會福利那第二個我想問一下因為現在地方政府常常感覺開盲盒啦譬如說我剛講的捷運他去申請跟中央申請補助的時候中央忽然講說對不起明年我少給你72%他說我現在還知道那為什麼不能一次跟地方"},{"start":922.679,"end":944.558,"text":"好 謝謝好 謝謝葉仁智委員資訊也謝謝卓院長 相關部會首長貝馨 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":971,"blocks":[["葉委員元之：（12時16分）主席好。麻煩請卓院長，謝謝。"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：葉委員好。"],["葉委員元之：院長好。早上聽你的報告，你提到現在發這一萬塊是希望特別條例趕快過，可以讓全民享受到自己努力的經濟實力，我覺得您這種態度就對了。早上我也看到您很委屈地在澄清，就是說你們發這1萬塊沒有可發、可不發，或者是沒有說可發然後不發。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["葉委員元之：你在澄清嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["葉委員元之：你知道為什麼大家會有這種感覺嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：希望趕快拿到。"],["葉委員元之：因為你一開始的態度就跟剛剛我講的態度不一樣嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們一開始是希望政府不舉債，我們用到需要的地方去。"],["葉委員元之：對啊！但是你講話的方式，我現在建議你，不要造成國人的誤會，因為你一開始就說1萬塊遙控飛機買了、冰箱買了就沒了，好像這1萬塊大家沒有什麼需要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們希望國家需要的地方，我們積沙成塔用在那個地方去。"],["葉委員元之：然後你也知道，還有你們執政黨的立委也有講說，發1萬塊錢就是配合中共窮臺、認知作戰或統戰啦，講得好像領這1萬塊錢很不堪啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：剛剛也有委員質疑我們舉債在增高，這也是有相關。"],["葉委員元之：我還沒講完，我這只是建議啦，如果一開始的時候，其實大家採取比較正面的態度，用討論的、用促成的方式，而不是一直批評。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員，我覺得我們是對國家價值不同啦，對國家的價值認定不同。"],["葉委員元之：院長，就像您今天早上的態度，讓國人趕快享受這種大家努力而來的經濟果實，就很棒啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們已經……"],["葉委員元之：就是因為之前變來變去，態度前後變來變去，大家才會產生這樣的疑慮啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們已經決定要舉債了，我們就可以發出去的比較多，就是這樣子而已。"],["葉委員元之：你講的跟我講的是不同的事情，我講的是你的態度前後不一樣啦！"],["卓院長榮泰：是同樣的事情啦！"],["葉委員元之：你之前要舉債或現在要舉債不是一樣？而且你編了很多其他的預算嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：之前我們是希望不舉債。"],["葉委員元之：舉債也不純粹是因為這個事情才舉債。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在編韌性條例跟預算的時候，我們是希望讓4,100億這筆錢是不舉債的。"],["葉委員元之：不是啦，有的東西跟舉債沒有關係，你有的是講話態度的問題，包括遙控飛機、冰箱……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是有時候國會也好、國人也好，也認為政府舉債太多。"],["葉委員元之：所以我很快的跟你確定一下幾個部分，現在在時程上面，因為既然要發了，我覺得大家就會很期待，時程上如果10月中可以送出立法院，我也有看你對其他委員的回答，做了很多先前作業等等這些東西，可不可以給一個比較明確的日期？10月底感覺比較有困難，因為早上的回答是說比較有困難，大概什麼時候之前一定做得到？總是要有個目標，不然老是講一個比較空洞的，大家會比較……"],["卓院長榮泰：一個月。"],["葉委員元之：一個月大概是什麼時候？11月中以前一定會發？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是大院審理完成通過之後，總統公告之後一個月。"],["葉委員元之：假設10月中一定送出去的話，你是11月中以前一定會發，一個月嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：我認為總統也好，我們也會請總統能夠儘速公告，它就生效，生效之後一個月內就可以發放。"],["葉委員元之：就是一個月嘛！所以簡單的數學……"],["卓院長榮泰：差不多、差不多。"],["葉委員元之：10月中送出去就是11月底以前一定可以發，這是確定的嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：是、是，法律規定。"],["葉委員元之：但是如果動作更快的話就可以更早嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：能快就快。"],["葉委員元之：就可以更早，這個是時程……"],["卓院長榮泰：但是安全的措施我們會設想比較周延。"],["葉委員元之：對啦，那個是細節，我講的就是一個月，就是11月中，謝謝，大家就是至少11月中就可以有這個期待。","第二個是發放的方式是不是還是按照之前講的，包括登記入帳、ATM領取、郵局領取、直接入帳及造冊發放？"],["卓院長榮泰：對，五種。"],["葉委員元之：不會再多了嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：本來就沒有再多啊！"],["葉委員元之：在系統的設計上也不會變來變去嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：對，這是確定的。"],["葉委員元之：我會這樣問是因為院長有時候也是變來變去，一下說要研議不領取的選項，一下又說不用研議不領取的選項。"],["卓院長榮泰：當民間團體來跟我們做這種意見表達的時候，我們總要說我們要研議一下有沒有實質上的可能。"],["葉委員元之：那你研議了多久？"],["卓院長榮泰：研議完全不影響這個程序啊！我9月11號……"],["葉委員元之：那你有研議嗎？你們研議之後是覺得有什麼因素所以不做？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們認為這個對個資的保護有我們現在還沒有辦法想像上的危險，所以我們就停下來。"],["葉委員元之：其實你當下應該就可以知道不用去設不領取的選項嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：不是，任何來陳情的……"],["葉委員元之：其實你們到最後發放完之後，都可以確定有多少人是不領取，就以2023年的發放為例，最後是有7萬人不領取。我怎麼知道呢？因為最後就算得出來啊！所以你去增設一個不領取的選項，這就是多此一舉啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：我們沒有增設。"],["葉委員元之：因為您是行政院長，您講話都會讓人家覺得會往這個方向去做，院長說要研議不領取，大家就覺得到時候會不會真的出現不領取的選項，但是實際上你們兩個都在搖頭，所以根本不可能嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：研議的過程完全沒有延誤任何的時間。"],["葉委員元之：所以院長在用詞遣字方面可能要稍微留意一下，因為你講一句話，國人就討論了，國人就會覺得：哇噻，連這個都要設不領取喔！"],["卓院長榮泰：委員有很多建議我們也都是研議啊！"],["葉委員元之：但是我們的建議很多都有建設性啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["葉委員元之：再來我想順便問一下，剛剛講有五種領取方式，但在光復鄉那邊，有的人證件被沖走了，有的ATM也被沖走，ATM也沒有了，請問你們大概會用什麼方式去發放？"],["莊部長翠雲：基本上我們還是維持這樣的方式，因為整個發放的時間大概有六個月，當然我們要先協助光復鄉的國人能夠儘快把相關的證件補辦起來，因為他除了領1萬塊之外，還有其他也需要使用。我想各部會都在協助他們，不管是健保卡、身分證等等都在協助，如果特別有需要的話，我們也可以另外考量是不是用其他專案的方式來處理。"],["葉委員元之：專案方式是不是？"],["莊部長翠雲：對，但是目前六個月的時間其實是夠長的，我想那個時候證件應該都補齊了。"],["葉委員元之：你們第一個就是想辦法幫助他們把證件補齊，然後ATM的這些設施趕快恢復，但如果真的有特殊狀況，還會用專案來處理。"],["莊部長翠雲：對，我們再來做專案處理。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們是用一站式的服務，健保卡、身分證、郵局還有農會，如果需要這個證件，我們用一站式的服務，而且據我們所知，現在戶政所已經恢復它的基本功能了。"],["葉委員元之：好，謝謝。","再來我問一下有關於經濟韌性預算，現在針對產業支持是規劃了780億，請問這780億是根據多少關稅評估出來的？"],["卓院長榮泰：支持產業的部分？"],["葉委員元之：對，因為你用對等關稅32%或者是20%所評估出來的產業支持預算規模應該是不一樣的，那780億的底牌是根據什麼樣的依據？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝，請部長來詳細說明。在4月4號我們對產業支持的方案出來440億的時候，我們是用高推估30%……"],["葉委員元之：是百分之多少？現在的780億是根據百分之多少估出來的？"],["龔部長明鑫：事實上大致上也是差不多30%左右。"],["葉委員元之：用30%？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["葉委員元之：就是關稅30%？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為我們那時候是用20%、25%、30%這樣……"],["葉委員元之：換句話說，因為現在關稅是20%+N……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，但是……"],["葉委員元之：如果現在繼續談，談到後來假設20%可以降下來，就不會花到780億這麼多，是這個意思嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：也不一定，因為談的過程當中，我們可能也會有一些讓利。"],["葉委員元之：你當初是比較高估，因為政府一直告訴我們20%+N是暫時性關稅，理論上按照政府講話的邏輯應該關稅會降，應該不會往上升到30%，應該不會吧！"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，因為國際情勢的改變不單單只是關稅而已，還有其他的……"],["葉委員元之：我知道啦，還有什麼？"],["龔部長明鑫：可能匯率或其他的問題。"],["葉委員元之：OK，所以這是一個粗估嘛！780億是一個粗估，最後用多少不知道，剛剛部長也講了，國際情勢改變有可能會花到更多，不確定性很高。我在這邊提醒幾個部分，我想請教一下，今天美方傳出來的消息是希望我們的晶片五五分，但我們的政府已經拒絕，然後我們提出來一個方案是擴大去美國投資可以用G to G的方式，類似在美國成立科學園區，這個事情是確實的嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，臺灣產業的成功有一個型態，就是一個群聚、聚落（cluster）。"],["葉委員元之：我知道，我就是確認一下，因為我們……"],["龔部長明鑫：過去來講，我們這個群聚常常……"],["葉委員元之：是不是確定我們有提這個方案，就是鼓勵我們的企業整合，然後去那邊設科學園區，是不是有提出這樣的方案？"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，我們是……"],["葉委員元之：有沒有？沒關係，因為時間有限……"],["龔部長明鑫：我們跟美方表達產業要成功的話，一定要形成一個聚落。"],["葉委員元之：好，這個我知道，我是問有沒有這件事，有還是沒有嘛？有沒有？"],["龔部長明鑫：園區是一個型態……"],["葉委員元之：我們有嘛，好，那就是有嘛，為什麼有或沒有要講那麼一大堆？不要拖時間，因為我們時間有限。","我是想問，你有考慮到整個產業過去之後，因為它還要帶那個產業鏈，然後很多企業會過去，假設以科學園區的規模的話，那麼多公司的投資資本是有限的，過去投資多一點，在臺灣投資就會少一點，可能會造成臺灣產業空洞化……"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["葉委員元之：經濟部有沒有評估過這個事情？"],["龔部長明鑫：不會，我們一定先立足臺灣、布局全球，所以立足臺灣一定先……"],["葉委員元之：當然口號是這樣……"],["龔部長明鑫：我跟委員報告，跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：可是資本就是這樣，它的資本過去之後……"],["龔部長明鑫：我跟委員報告……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，我還沒有講……"],["龔部長明鑫：我跟你講……"],["葉委員元之：等一下，等一下，還沒有講。它的資本就是這麼多，它投資美國的資本比較多，當然投資臺灣就會少一點……"],["龔部長明鑫：不會。"],["葉委員元之：因為你現在沒有要用到政府的資源，你現在主要都是用民間資源。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，如果它那邊有訂單，可以形成經濟規模，它當然會過去，但是有一些小的企業沒有辦法，可能只能取一地而已。在這種情況下，我們會要求它的供應鏈裡面的一些材料就在臺灣做，然後供應給它，所以才形成一個互動……"],["葉委員元之：那沒有辦法形成科學園區的規模，對呀。"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，它可以跟我們形成一個很好的產業鏈……"],["葉委員元之：我的問題就是因為你們跟美方講說要在那邊用G to G成立一個科學園區的規模，我是擔心投資資本移過去之後會造成產業空洞化，你沒有回答我的問題。"],["龔部長明鑫：我說不會，我剛剛有講不會。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，你們曾經有一個方案是鼓勵我們的企業跟美國買農產品，大概4年要100億美金，對吧？這是有的嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：這是我們的公協會跟一些主要的產業……"],["葉委員元之：對嘛，然後也不會用到納稅人的錢，但是這可能也會造成一個問題，因為我看到一些企業，像卜蜂或者台糖，他們的說法是他們也願意配合企業，可是他們以前在買東西的時候，因為可以跟各國去買，現在如果要擴大跟美國投資，變成規格標，那勢必會提高成本……"],["龔部長明鑫：不是、不是……"],["卓院長榮泰：我想它有3個思考，再請部長……"],["葉委員元之：會提高成本……"],["卓院長榮泰：就是我們進口需要的，我們從各方來買，另外……"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["葉委員元之：我講的是企業直接的回復。我提醒一下，我還沒講完，你們都一直打斷我。奇怪，院長帶頭，部長打斷……"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們大概知道你的問題。"],["葉委員元之：這麼害怕我講喔？"],["龔部長明鑫：我知道委員的關心。"],["葉委員元之：不用害怕，我一句話都還沒論述完，你就一直打岔，這樣我很難問問題，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["葉委員元之：像卜蜂、台糖他們的說法，他們說如果形成規格標的話，成本會上揚。現在就是羊毛出在羊身上，如果他們的成本上揚，物價勢必會往上攀升，會影響到物價，政府對這部分有因應嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：委員，我可以回答嗎？現在的狀況是這樣，我們需要美國的黃小玉，就是黃豆、小麥等等，那個是我們養豬的飼料，現在……"],["葉委員元之：不是，部長可不可以針對問題回答？"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，因為這樣……"],["葉委員元之：我剛剛講說卜蜂跟台糖他們提出來的講法，你去講到黃小玉幹嘛？卜蜂是買黃小玉嗎？不要拖時間，這樣我有1小時都不夠啦。"],["龔部長明鑫：不是，台糖是……飼料啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：飼料。"],["陳部長駿季：我跟委員報告，因為這是農業部在協助的。"],["龔部長明鑫：都是買飼料。"],["陳部長駿季：第一個部分，整個農訪團的裡面，您剛剛講的卜蜂，就是卜蜂的飼料公會一起的……"],["葉委員元之：會不會造成物價上漲？會不會？"],["陳部長駿季：不會，聯合採購反而會降低它的進口成本。"],["葉委員元之：不會，所以不會造成物價上漲？"],["陳部長駿季：對，它反而會降低進口成本。"],["葉委員元之：OK，好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：我把3個原則講一下，一個是我們進口需要的，一個是畜牧業買飼料需要的，第三個是要保護消費者的權益，有這3個原則。"],["葉委員元之：對，可是企業的邏輯是，以前它有需要，可以跟各國去買，現在如果是配合政府，擴大只跟單一國家買，它認為成本會提高……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["陳部長駿季：這個是聯合採購，反而……"],["葉委員元之：這個是企業的憂慮，你覺得不會，你要講一個……要跟人家溝通嘛！"],["卓院長榮泰：大量聯合採購更有利於談判。"],["葉委員元之：因為成本提高，我擔心的是物價會提高……"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會。"],["葉委員元之：你如果認為不會，你們可以跟企業講。"],["卓院長榮泰：不過也謝謝委員的提醒，我們一定會注意到業界的變化。"],["葉委員元之：再來，因為我沒有很多時間，我希望不要一直打岔，我想問一下預算的問題。明年總預算送過來是3兆350億嘛？"],["卓院長榮泰：對。"],["葉委員元之：比今年的總預算還高，因為今年最後決算是兩兆九千多億，明年的預算又變多了……"],["卓院長榮泰：如果加上追加預算的話，明年比今年只會多222億。"],["葉委員元之：反正明年有變多，第一個，明年變多；第二個，中央要給地方的錢一直在砍，比如說我來自新北市，你們給我們新北市捷運的砍了大概90億、明年就砍了90億，所以在中央的預算膨脹、給地方錢又變少的情況之下，明年中央可支用的預算其實變比較多，多很多！按照你們現在的規劃。","我現在有兩個問題，第一個，因為我們今天討論的是韌性部分，有很多預算看起來不知道為什麼會編在特別預算裡，比如像這一個要辦理強化獨居老人關懷服務計畫，這個東西當然我覺得要做，可是實際上這個跟年度預算又很像，請問一下，明年年度預算有沒有編類似強化獨居老人關懷計畫的預算？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為當時……沒有特別……"],["葉委員元之：沒有編這個項目？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們考慮到關稅談判結果也許會造成一些國內的衝擊，所以這些獨居老人的弱勢要加強照顧，因此編在這個裡面。"],["葉委員元之：那年度預算裡面有沒有編強化獨居……"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有把這一項單獨拉出來，沒有單獨這一項……"],["葉委員元之：所以年度預算平常就沒有在照顧獨居老人、都沒有在關懷獨居老人？"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有、沒有重疊！"],["葉委員元之：沒有重疊？"],["卓院長榮泰：沒有單獨這一項，有一般的社會福利。"],["葉委員元之：第二個，我想問一下，因為現在地方政府常常感覺是開盲盒，譬如我剛剛講的捷運，他去跟中央申請補助的時候，中央忽然講說：對不起，明年我少給你72%。他說：我現在才知道！為什麼不能一次跟地方講清楚公式是什麼、要怎麼減，讓大家有一個心理準備？而不是行文過去之後才說我要減你這一塊。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們也是被少掉4,165億。"],["葉委員元之：你們少是一回事，但是為什麼不事先告知？"],["卓院長榮泰：關於財劃法的問題，我希望我們還有更充裕的時間好好的來討論，大家拿出討論的內容……"],["葉委員元之：應該先討論，而不是說：我就不給你了。讓大家認為原來是不給……"],["卓院長榮泰：不過也要讓地方能夠編得出預算。"],["主席：好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝葉元之委員質詢，也謝謝卓院長及相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，我們上午質詢到此為止，下午2點繼續開會，進行特別預算報告之質詢。謝謝王育敏委員、也謝謝魯明哲委員陪同我們一起參與今天特別預算的報告。現在休息。","休息（12時32分）"]],"agenda":{"page_end":98,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣"],"page_start":83,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"報告事項","agenda_id":"1147801_00011"}}}