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我想其實大家最關心的還是就是說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 115.727, \"end\": 117.148, \"score\": 0.871}, {\"word\": \"內\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"剛\"}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 117.148, \"end\": 117.328, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 117.328, \"end\": 117.588, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"王\", \"start\": 117.588, \"end\": 117.729, \"score\": 0.982}, {\"word\": \"委\", \"start\": 117.729, \"end\": 117.909, \"score\": 0.896}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 117.909, \"end\": 118.009, \"score\": 0.89}, {\"word\": \"過\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 118.009, \"end\": 118.449, \"score\": 0.909}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"希\", \"start\": 118.449, \"end\": 118.529, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"望\", \"start\": 118.529, \"end\": 118.589, \"score\": 0.658}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 118.589, \"end\": 118.929, \"score\": 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\"score\": 0.944}, {\"word\": \"麼\"}, {\"word\": \"人\", \"start\": 507.454, \"end\": 507.654, \"score\": 0.901}, {\"word\": \"民\", \"start\": 507.654, \"end\": 507.894, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"辛\", \"start\": 507.894, \"end\": 508.054, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"辛\", \"start\": 508.054, \"end\": 508.234, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 508.234, \"end\": 508.414, \"score\": 0.891}, {\"word\": \"苦\", \"start\": 508.414, \"end\": 508.594, \"score\": 0.888}, {\"word\": \"繳\"}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 508.594, \"end\": 509.054, \"score\": 0.906}, {\"word\": \"納\"}, {\"word\": \"稅\"}, {\"word\": \"錢\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 509.054, \"end\": 509.174, \"score\": 0.833}, {\"word\": \"能\", \"start\": 509.174, \"end\": 509.414, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"夠\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 509.414, \"end\": 509.654, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"讓\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 509.654, \"end\": 510.114, \"score\": 0.956}, 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681.817, \"score\": 0.799}, {\"word\": \"要\", \"start\": 681.817, \"end\": 682.037, \"score\": 0.905}, {\"word\": \"精\", \"start\": 682.037, \"end\": 682.217, \"score\": 0.946}, {\"word\": \"进\", \"start\": 682.217, \"end\": 682.417, \"score\": 0.903}, {\"word\": \"产\", \"start\": 682.417, \"end\": 682.598, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"学\", \"start\": 682.598, \"end\": 682.818, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"合\", \"start\": 682.818, \"end\": 683.058, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"作\", \"start\": 683.058, \"end\": 683.779, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 683.779, \"end\": 683.879, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"么\", \"start\": 683.879, \"end\": 684.119, \"score\": 0.938}, {\"word\": \"这\", \"start\": 684.119, \"end\": 684.339, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 684.339, \"end\": 684.499, \"score\": 0.93}, {\"word\": \"以\", \"start\": 684.499, \"end\": 684.639, \"score\": 0.832}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 684.639, \"end\": 684.779, \"score\": 0.891}, 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00:00:44,534\n今天立法院這裡審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別預算我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關那麼在面對美國對台灣實施的高關稅以及在最近匯率\n\n3\n00:00:46,116 --> 00:01:02,376\n強烈的變動的情況之下可能會對於台灣的產業經濟民生社會所帶來的衝擊那麼以及各個部會機關然後因應相關的國際形勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理\n\n4\n00:01:03,337 --> 00:01:26,637\n不是有合乎实际的需求所以在这里我首先想请问院长就是从今年四月份开始川普总统他宣布了实施对等关税以来到现在已经半年了那么我们知道这个郑立军副院长其实他也带队到美国去谈判至今应该已经谈判了五次那么到目前为止到底有没有什么具体的结论\n\n5\n00:01:28,183 --> 00:01:54,887\n曾副院長在昨天的下午有把最後一次雙方實體的談判的一個階段性的結果跟國人報告那目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議那這個部分因為美方現在還有一點在內部的問題稍微停頓下來但我希望我也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久我們繼續往這個方向前進希望在\n\n6\n00:01:55,727 --> 00:02:19,202\n這個月內剛剛委員提過王委員提過我們希望在這個月內他可以看到一個實質的進展因為國內跟人民產業跟人民都非常的期待趕快的定案下來是的我想其實大家最關心的還是就是說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的\n\n7\n00:02:20,246 --> 00:02:44,396\n對的關稅也在爭取不疊加的賴總統他口口聲聲都說這20%的關稅稅率是所謂的暫時性的稅率可是事實上我們看到美國官方所公布的在他們行政命令上面所公布的關稅付表裡面根本沒有出現暫時性關稅的字眼所以事實上這個稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%\n\n8\n00:02:46,377 --> 00:03:15,002\n但是我們的政府好像始終沒有把這樣的一個訊息很正確的告訴民眾當然或許在這20%之後有可能假設我們釋出了更多的利多更釋出了更多的台灣這些產業的利益有可能會換取到下降但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能那麼當然在這項的稅率裡面我想大家民眾的最關心的就是到底我們台灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情\n\n9\n00:03:15,662 --> 00:03:36,282\n要採購美國什麼項目這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的我想請問為什麼就是到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲然後讓國人一頭霧水霧裡看花稿搞不清楚說到底我們台灣是投資還有採購了什麼事情那我們知道看看其他國家\n\n10\n00:03:37,423 --> 00:03:55,609\n不管是日本韓國歐盟等等他們其實都很大方的揭露跟美國的談判的狀況進度讓他們的民眾知道即便是說可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響讓民眾也可以提早做些準備讓產業界可以提早做些準備\n\n11\n00:03:56,269 --> 00:04:18,411\n所以就這個部分來說我其實不是很認同現在行政院爛政府的做法因為在整個談判過程當中讓大家外界看到就是感覺就是這個偷偷摸摸啊然後這個語焉不詳然後遮遮掩掩的那實際上有很多事情其實就應該開誠布公的跟大家來講\n\n12\n00:04:20,272 --> 00:04:35,027\n那在产业座谈会或是跟立法院做相关的报告以某种程度也取得立法院的支持我觉得这个部分是重要的否则你们现在去谈了谈了回来之后到底立法院买不买单都还是另外一回事呢\n\n13\n00:04:35,974 --> 00:05:03,335\n我相信日本也好歐盟也好也是在他們完成最後協議的時候整體的全貌才會讓大家知道之前的可能都是一種推測那現在我們在原來宣布的32%後來暫時10%後來又恢復到20%但是美方有提到只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整所以我們認為這20%是暫時性的我們在努力爭取更好那爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常非常多\n\n14\n00:05:04,116 --> 00:05:26,637\n不合理的代價而是雙方基於一種合作的模式我們希望說對等關稅就是合作的模式至於採購或是投資的內容能容許部長來答覆我想這個部分就暫時因為時間的關係那麼當然你看像前陣子這個農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概一千億美金的\n\n15\n00:05:29,077 --> 00:05:53,343\n這個農產品就讓大家很恐慌是不是這個部分未來什麼我們的什麼玉小麥等等的這些都是會讓利了那沒關係這個部分的話我想總之就是我們會期待行政院其實還有各部會如果你們知道一些情況跟美國談的這個狀況就應該要資訊揭露讓大家能夠清楚否則的話簡單來說這就是黑箱嘛不透明難怪會讓國人會\n\n16\n00:05:55,843 --> 00:06:24,333\n質疑就是說民進黨政府是不是出賣了台灣某些產業的利益我們放心我們都一起把握這個國家最大的利益再不違反國際談判的慣例跟雙方保密原則我們都跟社會做溝通接下來我就要實際上進入到實質的特別預算書的內容了那本席其實仔細看了這項高達5500億的特別預算那麼基本上坦白說我真的看不出來他的特別地方在哪裡\n\n17\n00:06:25,393 --> 00:06:45,487\n因為翻開就是各個部會機關所寫的內容事實上跟114年今年度的預算跟明年度的編列的預算的項目高度的相似也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊更抽象更空洞\n\n18\n00:06:47,048 --> 00:07:05,239\n我想不仅是我看到这样的状况其实有些媒体他们基本上看了预算书之后也有同样的感受而且里面跌床驾屋重复编列的情形是相当的严重所以我在这边也请院长看看本席所整理的一个图表\n\n19\n00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:28,259\n在这份特别的预算书当中除了普发现金1万元的2350亿元的项目是很明确的之外九个部会机关里面写了不到40页的计划说明书就要拿走纳税人3150亿元的纳税金平均一页的计划书就值80亿\n\n20\n00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:52,137\n一字一意我讲一字一字千金它是一字千亿这个基本上我想对于国人来讲没有办法接受尤其是我们立法委员我们看了这些预算书之后呢真的是觉得瞠目结舌要花这么多的钱可是我们看到的内容却是非常非常的模糊我们看看教育部好了\n\n21\n00:07:53,345 --> 00:08:04,808\n教育部寫了半頁不到一頁再寫了半頁210個字就要申請200億的經費國防部大概寫了兩頁半然後600多個字編了1131億\n\n22\n00:08:10,470 --> 00:08:30,514\n但我們看到這些機關基本上他們草率編列特別預算的這樣做法說實在話本席看了是挺生氣的而且真的說叫我不砍預算也很難因為真的裡面寫得太模糊了那麼人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能夠就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉\n\n23\n00:08:34,655 --> 00:08:59,771\n所以在这个部分我想请教就是各部会计划就是你们有没有认真去思考到底因应高关税汇率的变动导致产业经济衰退这个产业出走人才流失等这些问题有没有一个具体的更仔细的计划或是更有建设性的计划不要忘记我们这次的特别条例它前面一个很重要的一个目标\n\n24\n00:09:00,947 --> 00:09:21,008\n或是一個前提是叫做為了因應國際情勢為了因應國際情勢所以所有的變略的預算的項目內容都要環繞著我們如何去因應國際這個情勢的這個劇烈的變化對我們所產生的影響但是呢我現在看到這個行政院\n\n25\n00:09:21,648 --> 00:09:43,273\n基本上就是想要借机好像把各种想得到的这个要钱的名目全部都灌到特别预算里面而且呢甚至还想要技术性的回补在114年度里面可能删除掉的一些预算所以就这个部分这种趁火打劫的做法坦白说真的还令人蛮反感的那么我给委员报告一下\n\n26\n00:09:44,164 --> 00:09:57,509\n如果你用頁數跟文字表示說我們對預算的不夠嚴謹我也要替你表示委屈你今天15分鐘我就請你要通過我們的5500億也太多但不是這樣子外來到委員會的時候會詳細的審查\n\n27\n00:09:59,315 --> 00:10:22,236\n教育部國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡面讓大家來討論啊因為你們的預算報告書裡面將來會提出更詳細的文字請教育部長來說明當然不是這樣子嘛接下來我首先請問一下這個院長有關於現金發放的具體時程你們都準備好了嗎\n\n28\n00:10:25,461 --> 00:10:37,779\n上午的時候財政部副部長也提過我們先期的準備作業都已經在陸續展開了所以如果說這個特別預算通過的話可以在非常短的時間內就可以發放給大家嗎\n\n29\n00:10:38,876 --> 00:11:04,323\n上幾位委員都有推敲我們如果大院在10月17號審議完成總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放但我們會把腳步加快OK那麼我希望能夠盡速的讓人民都能夠趕快領到這筆現金因為畢竟現在大家真的通貨膨脹而且最近有些災情等等其實人民都很需要這筆錢好那接下來我就要請教部長教育部部長政部長那麼教育部在這次的預算裡面編列了200億\n\n30\n00:11:05,723 --> 00:11:25,940\n那么用来是办理强化高等教育人才其中100亿呢是补助大专院校的提升校务经营还有采购大学医院里面的一些仪器设备及软体系统另外100亿呢则是补助给大学要延揽出品教师的签约金还要精进产学合作那么这所以就是个比加起来是200亿\n\n31\n00:11:26,781 --> 00:11:45,578\n可是上面這些項目事實上教育部已經在年度預算當中都已經編列過了而且例行性的就會補助大專院校的這些基本維運還有整體發展所需的費用所以可不可以請部長可以告訴本席到底你們這次在特別預算裡面你們所你們預算的重點是什麼\n\n32\n00:11:46,718 --> 00:12:03,679\n跟委員報告我想委員也來自大學然後包含清大的校長也都說跟我們特別提到在許多的科技產業因為蓬勃發展所以理工的實施確實是有餘力的我相信委員也非常了解國際的一個縣市\n\n33\n00:12:04,560 --> 00:12:20,222\n日本也提出了每年一千億的日幣用來延攬國際人才包含這個半導體科技產業的我想在這裡邊我們主要就希望說能夠給大學有一個更大的謝謝部長部長您講得很好\n\n34\n00:12:20,723 --> 00:12:35,697\n可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在這個預算書裡面您回去再看看您的預算書裡他寫得非常非常清楚完全看不到重點如果您今天說我們需要去培養的是STEM人才\n\n35\n00:12:36,657 --> 00:13:00,746\n需要培養是半導體的這個科技的人才我們需要延攬相關的資資那這方面本席當然是支持可是我想這個部長你也曾經當過中山大學的校長寫過這個高教深耕計畫我想你在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能說寫了短短幾行字然後就可以向這個教育部拿到兩億的計畫或是兩百億的計畫這是不可能的所以呢我要講的就是說\n\n36\n00:13:01,626 --> 00:13:20,218\n講得很詳細但是在婚姻主持者上沒有沒有預算書還是可以寫得詳細還是可以寫得詳細真的你們這個部分我其實如果說大家有疑問的話我們來改進所以我覺得說這樣的預算說明書實在是太草率了不到一頁就要\n\n37\n00:13:20,718 --> 00:13:33,888\n申請200億的經費如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎至少我不會因為我基本上我是一個嚴謹的人我會嚴格的去看每一個預算那麼當然這個問題其實不僅是發生在教育部其實像勞動部其實有類似的問題\n\n38\n00:13:38,632 --> 00:13:54,629\n那麼勞動部在這一次的這個預算特別預算當中支持勞工安定就業的預算其實就編列了高達一百五十億可是這些支持在這個項目底下他編了十項計劃裡面有很多的內容都是既有的措施\n\n39\n00:13:55,089 --> 00:14:18,257\n或者是說是在COVID的疫情關係相關措施的框架底下它不過是微調適用的範圍對象補助條件等等所以簡單來說它基本上跟一般的年度預算基本上是差不多的還是有出現有重複編列的狀況再說現在勞動部有多少就業安定基金目前的規模是有多少錢\n\n40\n00:14:19,649 --> 00:14:33,059\n目前就業管理基金每年每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下但是我們去查你們到目前為止大概是有475億所以這475億的經費難道不能夠用來去作為去支應如果說萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊那造成一些勞工\n\n41\n00:14:42,265 --> 00:14:57,300\n失業要幫助他們的這個就業我想這個就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定的產業受到影響的勞工他們失業的補助我覺得這樣是比較合理否則的話根本看不出來\n\n42\n00:14:58,962 --> 00:15:05,226\n那我說明一下可以嗎我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊\n\n43\n00:15:28,022 --> 00:15:28,243\n謝謝翁委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n10549\t11976\t謝謝主席這邊有請院長請卓院長備詢\n25103\t44534\t今天立法院這裡審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別預算我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關那麼在面對美國對台灣實施的高關稅以及在最近匯率\n46116\t62376\t強烈的變動的情況之下可能會對於台灣的產業經濟民生社會所帶來的衝擊那麼以及各個部會機關然後因應相關的國際形勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理\n63337\t86637\t不是有合乎实际的需求所以在这里我首先想请问院长就是从今年四月份开始川普总统他宣布了实施对等关税以来到现在已经半年了那么我们知道这个郑立军副院长其实他也带队到美国去谈判至今应该已经谈判了五次那么到目前为止到底有没有什么具体的结论\n88183\t114887\t曾副院長在昨天的下午有把最後一次雙方實體的談判的一個階段性的結果跟國人報告那目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議那這個部分因為美方現在還有一點在內部的問題稍微停頓下來但我希望我也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久我們繼續往這個方向前進希望在\n115727\t139202\t這個月內 剛剛委員提過 王委員提過我們希望在這個月內 他可以看到一個實質的進展因為國內跟人民 產業跟人民都非常的期待趕快的定案下來是的 我想其實大家最關心的還是就是說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的\n140246\t164396\t對的關稅 也在爭取不疊加的賴總統他口口聲聲都說這20%的關稅稅率是所謂的暫時性的稅率可是事實上我們看到美國官方所公布的在他們行政命令上面所公布的關稅付表裡面根本沒有出現暫時性關稅的字眼所以事實上這個稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%\n166377\t195002\t但是我們的政府好像始終沒有把這樣的一個訊息很正確的告訴民眾當然或許在這20%之後有可能假設我們釋出了更多的利多更釋出了更多的台灣這些產業的利益有可能會換取到下降但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能那麼當然在這項的稅率裡面我想大家民眾的最關心的就是到底我們台灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情\n195662\t216282\t要採購美國什麼項目這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的我想請問為什麼就是到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲然後讓國人一頭霧水霧裡看花稿搞不清楚說到底我們台灣是投資還有採購了什麼事情那我們知道看看其他國家\n217423\t235609\t不管是日本 韓國 歐盟等等他們其實都很大方的揭露跟美國的談判的狀況進度讓他們的民眾知道即便是說可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響讓民眾也可以提早做些準備讓產業界可以提早做些準備\n236269\t258411\t所以就這個部分來說我其實不是很認同現在行政院爛政府的做法因為在整個談判過程當中讓大家外界看到就是感覺就是這個偷偷摸摸啊然後這個語焉不詳然後遮遮掩掩的那實際上有很多事情其實就應該開誠布公的跟大家來講\n260272\t275027\t那在产业座谈会或是跟立法院做相关的报告以某种程度也取得立法院的支持我觉得这个部分是重要的否则你们现在去谈了谈了回来之后到底立法院买不买单都还是另外一回事呢\n275974\t303335\t我相信日本也好歐盟也好也是在他們完成最後協議的時候整體的全貌才會讓大家知道之前的可能都是一種推測那現在我們在原來宣布的32%後來暫時10%後來又恢復到20%但是美方有提到只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整所以我們認為這20%是暫時性的我們在努力爭取更好那爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常非常多\n304116\t326637\t不合理的代價而是雙方基於一種合作的模式我們希望說對等關稅就是合作的模式至於採購或是投資的內容能容許部長來答覆我想這個部分就暫時因為時間的關係那麼當然你看像前陣子這個農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概一千億美金的\n329077\t353343\t這個農產品就讓大家很恐慌是不是這個部分未來什麼我們的什麼玉小麥等等的這些都是會讓利了那沒關係這個部分的話我想總之就是我們會期待行政院其實還有各部會如果你們知道一些情況跟美國談的這個狀況就應該要資訊揭露讓大家能夠清楚否則的話簡單來說這就是黑箱嘛不透明難怪會讓國人會\n355843\t384333\t質疑就是說民進黨政府是不是出賣了台灣某些產業的利益我們放心 我們都一起把握這個國家最大的利益再不違反國際談判的慣例跟雙方保密原則我們都跟社會做溝通接下來我就要實際上進入到實質的特別預算書的內容了那本席其實仔細看了這項高達5500億的特別預算那麼基本上坦白說我真的看不出來他的特別地方在哪裡\n385393\t405487\t因為翻開就是各個部會機關所寫的內容事實上跟114年今年度的預算跟明年度的編列的預算的項目高度的相似也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊更抽象更空洞\n407048\t425239\t我想不仅是我看到这样的状况其实有些媒体他们基本上看了预算书之后也有同样的感受而且里面跌床驾屋重复编列的情形是相当的严重所以我在这边也请院长看看本席所整理的一个图表\n425839\t448259\t在这份特别的预算书当中除了普发现金1万元的2350亿元的项目是很明确的之外九个部会机关里面写了不到40页的计划说明书就要拿走纳税人3150亿元的纳税金平均一页的计划书就值80亿\n449640\t472137\t一字一意我讲一字一字千金它是一字千亿这个基本上我想对于国人来讲没有办法接受尤其是我们立法委员我们看了这些预算书之后呢真的是觉得瞠目结舌要花这么多的钱可是我们看到的内容却是非常非常的模糊我们看看教育部好了\n473345\t484808\t教育部寫了半頁不到一頁再寫了半頁210個字就要申請200億的經費國防部大概寫了兩頁半然後600多個字編了1131億\n490470\t510514\t但我們看到這些機關基本上他們草率編列特別預算的這樣做法說實在話本席看了是挺生氣的而且真的說叫我不砍預算也很難因為真的裡面寫得太模糊了那麼人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能夠就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉\n514655\t539771\t所以在这个部分我想请教就是各部会计划就是你们有没有认真去思考到底因应高关税汇率的变动导致产业经济衰退这个产业出走人才流失等这些问题有没有一个具体的更仔细的计划或是更有建设性的计划不要忘记我们这次的特别条例它前面一个很重要的一个目标\n540947\t561008\t或是一個前提是叫做為了因應國際情勢為了因應國際情勢所以所有的變略的預算的項目內容都要環繞著我們如何去因應國際這個情勢的這個劇烈的變化對我們所產生的影響但是呢我現在看到這個行政院\n561648\t583273\t基本上就是想要借机好像把各种想得到的这个要钱的名目全部都灌到特别预算里面而且呢甚至还想要技术性的回补在114年度里面可能删除掉的一些预算所以就这个部分这种趁火打劫的做法坦白说真的还令人蛮反感的那么我给委员报告一下\n584164\t597509\t如果你用頁數跟文字表示說我們對預算的不夠嚴謹我也要替你表示委屈你今天15分鐘我就請你要通過我們的5500億也太多但不是這樣子外來到委員會的時候會詳細的審查\n599315\t622236\t教育部國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡面讓大家來討論啊因為你們的預算報告書裡面將來會提出更詳細的文字請教育部長來說明當然不是這樣子嘛接下來我首先請問一下這個院長有關於現金發放的具體時程你們都準備好了嗎\n625461\t637779\t上午的時候財政部副部長也提過我們先期的準備作業都已經在陸續展開了所以如果說這個特別預算通過的話可以在非常短的時間內就可以發放給大家嗎\n638876\t664323\t上幾位委員都有推敲我們如果大院在10月17號審議完成總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放但我們會把腳步加快OK 那麼我希望能夠盡速的讓人民都能夠趕快領到這筆現金因為畢竟現在大家真的通貨膨脹而且最近有些災情等等其實人民都很需要這筆錢好 那接下來我就要請教部長教育部部長 政部長那麼教育部在這次的預算裡面編列了200億\n665723\t685940\t那么用来是办理强化高等教育人才其中100亿呢是补助大专院校的提升校务经营还有采购大学医院里面的一些仪器设备及软体系统另外100亿呢则是补助给大学要延揽出品教师的签约金还要精进产学合作那么这所以就是个比加起来是200亿\n686781\t705578\t可是上面這些項目事實上教育部已經在年度預算當中都已經編列過了而且例行性的就會補助大專院校的這些基本維運還有整體發展所需的費用所以可不可以請部長可以告訴本席到底你們這次在特別預算裡面你們所你們預算的重點是什麼\n706718\t723679\t跟委員報告我想委員也來自大學然後包含清大的校長也都說跟我們特別提到在許多的科技產業因為蓬勃發展所以理工的實施確實是有餘力的我相信委員也非常了解國際的一個縣市\n724560\t740222\t日本也提出了每年一千億的日幣用來延攬國際人才包含這個半導體科技產業的我想在這裡邊我們主要就希望說能夠給大學有一個更大的謝謝部長部長您講得很好\n740723\t755697\t可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在這個預算書裡面您回去再看看您的預算書裡他寫得非常非常清楚 完全看不到重點如果您今天說我們需要去培養的是STEM人才\n756657\t780746\t需要培養是半導體的這個科技的人才我們需要延攬相關的資資那這方面本席當然是支持可是我想這個部長你也曾經當過中山大學的校長寫過這個高教深耕計畫我想你在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能說寫了短短幾行字然後就可以向這個教育部拿到兩億的計畫或是兩百億的計畫這是不可能的所以呢我要講的就是說\n781626\t800218\t講得很詳細但是在婚姻主持者上沒有沒有預算書還是可以寫得詳細還是可以寫得詳細真的你們這個部分我其實如果說大家有疑問的話我們來改進所以我覺得說這樣的預算說明書實在是太草率了不到一頁就要\n800718\t813888\t申請200億的經費如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎至少我不會因為我基本上我是一個嚴謹的人我會嚴格的去看每一個預算那麼當然這個問題其實不僅是發生在教育部其實像勞動部其實有類似的問題\n818632\t834629\t那麼勞動部在這一次的這個預算特別預算當中支持勞工安定就業的預算其實就編列了高達一百五十億可是這些支持在這個項目底下他編了十項計劃裡面有很多的內容都是既有的措施\n835089\t858257\t或者是說是在COVID的疫情關係相關措施的框架底下它不過是微調適用的範圍對象補助條件等等所以簡單來說它基本上跟一般的年度預算基本上是差不多的還是有出現有重複編列的狀況再說現在勞動部有多少就業安定基金目前的規模是有多少錢\n859649\t873059\t目前就業管理基金每年每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下但是我們去查你們到目前為止大概是有475億所以這475億的經費難道不能夠用來去作為去支應如果說萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊那造成一些勞工\n882265\t897300\t失業要幫助他們的這個就業我想這個就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定的產業受到影響的勞工他們失業的補助我覺得這樣是比較合理否則的話根本看不出來\n898962\t905226\t那我說明一下可以嗎我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊\n928022\t928243\t謝謝翁委員\n","txt":"謝謝主席這邊有請院長請卓院長備詢\n今天立法院這裡審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別預算我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關那麼在面對美國對台灣實施的高關稅以及在最近匯率\n強烈的變動的情況之下可能會對於台灣的產業經濟民生社會所帶來的衝擊那麼以及各個部會機關然後因應相關的國際形勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理\n不是有合乎实际的需求所以在这里我首先想请问院长就是从今年四月份开始川普总统他宣布了实施对等关税以来到现在已经半年了那么我们知道这个郑立军副院长其实他也带队到美国去谈判至今应该已经谈判了五次那么到目前为止到底有没有什么具体的结论\n曾副院長在昨天的下午有把最後一次雙方實體的談判的一個階段性的結果跟國人報告那目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議那這個部分因為美方現在還有一點在內部的問題稍微停頓下來但我希望我也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久我們繼續往這個方向前進希望在\n這個月內 剛剛委員提過 王委員提過我們希望在這個月內 他可以看到一個實質的進展因為國內跟人民 產業跟人民都非常的期待趕快的定案下來是的 我想其實大家最關心的還是就是說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的\n對的關稅 也在爭取不疊加的賴總統他口口聲聲都說這20%的關稅稅率是所謂的暫時性的稅率可是事實上我們看到美國官方所公布的在他們行政命令上面所公布的關稅付表裡面根本沒有出現暫時性關稅的字眼所以事實上這個稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%\n但是我們的政府好像始終沒有把這樣的一個訊息很正確的告訴民眾當然或許在這20%之後有可能假設我們釋出了更多的利多更釋出了更多的台灣這些產業的利益有可能會換取到下降但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能那麼當然在這項的稅率裡面我想大家民眾的最關心的就是到底我們台灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情\n要採購美國什麼項目這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的我想請問為什麼就是到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲然後讓國人一頭霧水霧裡看花稿搞不清楚說到底我們台灣是投資還有採購了什麼事情那我們知道看看其他國家\n不管是日本 韓國 歐盟等等他們其實都很大方的揭露跟美國的談判的狀況進度讓他們的民眾知道即便是說可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響讓民眾也可以提早做些準備讓產業界可以提早做些準備\n所以就這個部分來說我其實不是很認同現在行政院爛政府的做法因為在整個談判過程當中讓大家外界看到就是感覺就是這個偷偷摸摸啊然後這個語焉不詳然後遮遮掩掩的那實際上有很多事情其實就應該開誠布公的跟大家來講\n那在产业座谈会或是跟立法院做相关的报告以某种程度也取得立法院的支持我觉得这个部分是重要的否则你们现在去谈了谈了回来之后到底立法院买不买单都还是另外一回事呢\n我相信日本也好歐盟也好也是在他們完成最後協議的時候整體的全貌才會讓大家知道之前的可能都是一種推測那現在我們在原來宣布的32%後來暫時10%後來又恢復到20%但是美方有提到只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整所以我們認為這20%是暫時性的我們在努力爭取更好那爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常非常多\n不合理的代價而是雙方基於一種合作的模式我們希望說對等關稅就是合作的模式至於採購或是投資的內容能容許部長來答覆我想這個部分就暫時因為時間的關係那麼當然你看像前陣子這個農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概一千億美金的\n這個農產品就讓大家很恐慌是不是這個部分未來什麼我們的什麼玉小麥等等的這些都是會讓利了那沒關係這個部分的話我想總之就是我們會期待行政院其實還有各部會如果你們知道一些情況跟美國談的這個狀況就應該要資訊揭露讓大家能夠清楚否則的話簡單來說這就是黑箱嘛不透明難怪會讓國人會\n質疑就是說民進黨政府是不是出賣了台灣某些產業的利益我們放心 我們都一起把握這個國家最大的利益再不違反國際談判的慣例跟雙方保密原則我們都跟社會做溝通接下來我就要實際上進入到實質的特別預算書的內容了那本席其實仔細看了這項高達5500億的特別預算那麼基本上坦白說我真的看不出來他的特別地方在哪裡\n因為翻開就是各個部會機關所寫的內容事實上跟114年今年度的預算跟明年度的編列的預算的項目高度的相似也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊更抽象更空洞\n我想不仅是我看到这样的状况其实有些媒体他们基本上看了预算书之后也有同样的感受而且里面跌床驾屋重复编列的情形是相当的严重所以我在这边也请院长看看本席所整理的一个图表\n在这份特别的预算书当中除了普发现金1万元的2350亿元的项目是很明确的之外九个部会机关里面写了不到40页的计划说明书就要拿走纳税人3150亿元的纳税金平均一页的计划书就值80亿\n一字一意我讲一字一字千金它是一字千亿这个基本上我想对于国人来讲没有办法接受尤其是我们立法委员我们看了这些预算书之后呢真的是觉得瞠目结舌要花这么多的钱可是我们看到的内容却是非常非常的模糊我们看看教育部好了\n教育部寫了半頁不到一頁再寫了半頁210個字就要申請200億的經費國防部大概寫了兩頁半然後600多個字編了1131億\n但我們看到這些機關基本上他們草率編列特別預算的這樣做法說實在話本席看了是挺生氣的而且真的說叫我不砍預算也很難因為真的裡面寫得太模糊了那麼人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能夠就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉\n所以在这个部分我想请教就是各部会计划就是你们有没有认真去思考到底因应高关税汇率的变动导致产业经济衰退这个产业出走人才流失等这些问题有没有一个具体的更仔细的计划或是更有建设性的计划不要忘记我们这次的特别条例它前面一个很重要的一个目标\n或是一個前提是叫做為了因應國際情勢為了因應國際情勢所以所有的變略的預算的項目內容都要環繞著我們如何去因應國際這個情勢的這個劇烈的變化對我們所產生的影響但是呢我現在看到這個行政院\n基本上就是想要借机好像把各种想得到的这个要钱的名目全部都灌到特别预算里面而且呢甚至还想要技术性的回补在114年度里面可能删除掉的一些预算所以就这个部分这种趁火打劫的做法坦白说真的还令人蛮反感的那么我给委员报告一下\n如果你用頁數跟文字表示說我們對預算的不夠嚴謹我也要替你表示委屈你今天15分鐘我就請你要通過我們的5500億也太多但不是這樣子外來到委員會的時候會詳細的審查\n教育部國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡面讓大家來討論啊因為你們的預算報告書裡面將來會提出更詳細的文字請教育部長來說明當然不是這樣子嘛接下來我首先請問一下這個院長有關於現金發放的具體時程你們都準備好了嗎\n上午的時候財政部副部長也提過我們先期的準備作業都已經在陸續展開了所以如果說這個特別預算通過的話可以在非常短的時間內就可以發放給大家嗎\n上幾位委員都有推敲我們如果大院在10月17號審議完成總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放但我們會把腳步加快OK 那麼我希望能夠盡速的讓人民都能夠趕快領到這筆現金因為畢竟現在大家真的通貨膨脹而且最近有些災情等等其實人民都很需要這筆錢好 那接下來我就要請教部長教育部部長 政部長那麼教育部在這次的預算裡面編列了200億\n那么用来是办理强化高等教育人才其中100亿呢是补助大专院校的提升校务经营还有采购大学医院里面的一些仪器设备及软体系统另外100亿呢则是补助给大学要延揽出品教师的签约金还要精进产学合作那么这所以就是个比加起来是200亿\n可是上面這些項目事實上教育部已經在年度預算當中都已經編列過了而且例行性的就會補助大專院校的這些基本維運還有整體發展所需的費用所以可不可以請部長可以告訴本席到底你們這次在特別預算裡面你們所你們預算的重點是什麼\n跟委員報告我想委員也來自大學然後包含清大的校長也都說跟我們特別提到在許多的科技產業因為蓬勃發展所以理工的實施確實是有餘力的我相信委員也非常了解國際的一個縣市\n日本也提出了每年一千億的日幣用來延攬國際人才包含這個半導體科技產業的我想在這裡邊我們主要就希望說能夠給大學有一個更大的謝謝部長部長您講得很好\n可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在這個預算書裡面您回去再看看您的預算書裡他寫得非常非常清楚 完全看不到重點如果您今天說我們需要去培養的是STEM人才\n需要培養是半導體的這個科技的人才我們需要延攬相關的資資那這方面本席當然是支持可是我想這個部長你也曾經當過中山大學的校長寫過這個高教深耕計畫我想你在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能說寫了短短幾行字然後就可以向這個教育部拿到兩億的計畫或是兩百億的計畫這是不可能的所以呢我要講的就是說\n講得很詳細但是在婚姻主持者上沒有沒有預算書還是可以寫得詳細還是可以寫得詳細真的你們這個部分我其實如果說大家有疑問的話我們來改進所以我覺得說這樣的預算說明書實在是太草率了不到一頁就要\n申請200億的經費如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎至少我不會因為我基本上我是一個嚴謹的人我會嚴格的去看每一個預算那麼當然這個問題其實不僅是發生在教育部其實像勞動部其實有類似的問題\n那麼勞動部在這一次的這個預算特別預算當中支持勞工安定就業的預算其實就編列了高達一百五十億可是這些支持在這個項目底下他編了十項計劃裡面有很多的內容都是既有的措施\n或者是說是在COVID的疫情關係相關措施的框架底下它不過是微調適用的範圍對象補助條件等等所以簡單來說它基本上跟一般的年度預算基本上是差不多的還是有出現有重複編列的狀況再說現在勞動部有多少就業安定基金目前的規模是有多少錢\n目前就業管理基金每年每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下但是我們去查你們到目前為止大概是有475億所以這475億的經費難道不能夠用來去作為去支應如果說萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊那造成一些勞工\n失業要幫助他們的這個就業我想這個就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定的產業受到影響的勞工他們失業的補助我覺得這樣是比較合理否則的話根本看不出來\n那我說明一下可以嗎我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊\n謝謝翁委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:10.549 --> 00:11.976\n謝謝主席這邊有請院長請卓院長備詢\n\n00:25.103 --> 00:44.534\n今天立法院這裡審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別預算我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關那麼在面對美國對台灣實施的高關稅以及在最近匯率\n\n00:46.116 --> 01:02.376\n強烈的變動的情況之下可能會對於台灣的產業經濟民生社會所帶來的衝擊那麼以及各個部會機關然後因應相關的國際形勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理\n\n01:03.337 --> 01:26.637\n不是有合乎实际的需求所以在这里我首先想请问院长就是从今年四月份开始川普总统他宣布了实施对等关税以来到现在已经半年了那么我们知道这个郑立军副院长其实他也带队到美国去谈判至今应该已经谈判了五次那么到目前为止到底有没有什么具体的结论\n\n01:28.183 --> 01:54.887\n曾副院長在昨天的下午有把最後一次雙方實體的談判的一個階段性的結果跟國人報告那目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議那這個部分因為美方現在還有一點在內部的問題稍微停頓下來但我希望我也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久我們繼續往這個方向前進希望在\n\n01:55.727 --> 02:19.202\n這個月內剛剛委員提過王委員提過我們希望在這個月內他可以看到一個實質的進展因為國內跟人民產業跟人民都非常的期待趕快的定案下來是的我想其實大家最關心的還是就是說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的\n\n02:20.246 --> 02:44.396\n對的關稅也在爭取不疊加的賴總統他口口聲聲都說這20%的關稅稅率是所謂的暫時性的稅率可是事實上我們看到美國官方所公布的在他們行政命令上面所公布的關稅付表裡面根本沒有出現暫時性關稅的字眼所以事實上這個稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%\n\n02:46.377 --> 03:15.002\n但是我們的政府好像始終沒有把這樣的一個訊息很正確的告訴民眾當然或許在這20%之後有可能假設我們釋出了更多的利多更釋出了更多的台灣這些產業的利益有可能會換取到下降但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能那麼當然在這項的稅率裡面我想大家民眾的最關心的就是到底我們台灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情\n\n03:15.662 --> 03:36.282\n要採購美國什麼項目這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的我想請問為什麼就是到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲然後讓國人一頭霧水霧裡看花稿搞不清楚說到底我們台灣是投資還有採購了什麼事情那我們知道看看其他國家\n\n03:37.423 --> 03:55.609\n不管是日本韓國歐盟等等他們其實都很大方的揭露跟美國的談判的狀況進度讓他們的民眾知道即便是說可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響讓民眾也可以提早做些準備讓產業界可以提早做些準備\n\n03:56.269 --> 04:18.411\n所以就這個部分來說我其實不是很認同現在行政院爛政府的做法因為在整個談判過程當中讓大家外界看到就是感覺就是這個偷偷摸摸啊然後這個語焉不詳然後遮遮掩掩的那實際上有很多事情其實就應該開誠布公的跟大家來講\n\n04:20.272 --> 04:35.027\n那在产业座谈会或是跟立法院做相关的报告以某种程度也取得立法院的支持我觉得这个部分是重要的否则你们现在去谈了谈了回来之后到底立法院买不买单都还是另外一回事呢\n\n04:35.974 --> 05:03.335\n我相信日本也好歐盟也好也是在他們完成最後協議的時候整體的全貌才會讓大家知道之前的可能都是一種推測那現在我們在原來宣布的32%後來暫時10%後來又恢復到20%但是美方有提到只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整所以我們認為這20%是暫時性的我們在努力爭取更好那爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常非常多\n\n05:04.116 --> 05:26.637\n不合理的代價而是雙方基於一種合作的模式我們希望說對等關稅就是合作的模式至於採購或是投資的內容能容許部長來答覆我想這個部分就暫時因為時間的關係那麼當然你看像前陣子這個農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概一千億美金的\n\n05:29.077 --> 05:53.343\n這個農產品就讓大家很恐慌是不是這個部分未來什麼我們的什麼玉小麥等等的這些都是會讓利了那沒關係這個部分的話我想總之就是我們會期待行政院其實還有各部會如果你們知道一些情況跟美國談的這個狀況就應該要資訊揭露讓大家能夠清楚否則的話簡單來說這就是黑箱嘛不透明難怪會讓國人會\n\n05:55.843 --> 06:24.333\n質疑就是說民進黨政府是不是出賣了台灣某些產業的利益我們放心我們都一起把握這個國家最大的利益再不違反國際談判的慣例跟雙方保密原則我們都跟社會做溝通接下來我就要實際上進入到實質的特別預算書的內容了那本席其實仔細看了這項高達5500億的特別預算那麼基本上坦白說我真的看不出來他的特別地方在哪裡\n\n06:25.393 --> 06:45.487\n因為翻開就是各個部會機關所寫的內容事實上跟114年今年度的預算跟明年度的編列的預算的項目高度的相似也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊更抽象更空洞\n\n06:47.048 --> 07:05.239\n我想不仅是我看到这样的状况其实有些媒体他们基本上看了预算书之后也有同样的感受而且里面跌床驾屋重复编列的情形是相当的严重所以我在这边也请院长看看本席所整理的一个图表\n\n07:05.839 --> 07:28.259\n在这份特别的预算书当中除了普发现金1万元的2350亿元的项目是很明确的之外九个部会机关里面写了不到40页的计划说明书就要拿走纳税人3150亿元的纳税金平均一页的计划书就值80亿\n\n07:29.640 --> 07:52.137\n一字一意我讲一字一字千金它是一字千亿这个基本上我想对于国人来讲没有办法接受尤其是我们立法委员我们看了这些预算书之后呢真的是觉得瞠目结舌要花这么多的钱可是我们看到的内容却是非常非常的模糊我们看看教育部好了\n\n07:53.345 --> 08:04.808\n教育部寫了半頁不到一頁再寫了半頁210個字就要申請200億的經費國防部大概寫了兩頁半然後600多個字編了1131億\n\n08:10.470 --> 08:30.514\n但我們看到這些機關基本上他們草率編列特別預算的這樣做法說實在話本席看了是挺生氣的而且真的說叫我不砍預算也很難因為真的裡面寫得太模糊了那麼人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能夠就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉\n\n08:34.655 --> 08:59.771\n所以在这个部分我想请教就是各部会计划就是你们有没有认真去思考到底因应高关税汇率的变动导致产业经济衰退这个产业出走人才流失等这些问题有没有一个具体的更仔细的计划或是更有建设性的计划不要忘记我们这次的特别条例它前面一个很重要的一个目标\n\n09:00.947 --> 09:21.008\n或是一個前提是叫做為了因應國際情勢為了因應國際情勢所以所有的變略的預算的項目內容都要環繞著我們如何去因應國際這個情勢的這個劇烈的變化對我們所產生的影響但是呢我現在看到這個行政院\n\n09:21.648 --> 09:43.273\n基本上就是想要借机好像把各种想得到的这个要钱的名目全部都灌到特别预算里面而且呢甚至还想要技术性的回补在114年度里面可能删除掉的一些预算所以就这个部分这种趁火打劫的做法坦白说真的还令人蛮反感的那么我给委员报告一下\n\n09:44.164 --> 09:57.509\n如果你用頁數跟文字表示說我們對預算的不夠嚴謹我也要替你表示委屈你今天15分鐘我就請你要通過我們的5500億也太多但不是這樣子外來到委員會的時候會詳細的審查\n\n09:59.315 --> 10:22.236\n教育部國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡面讓大家來討論啊因為你們的預算報告書裡面將來會提出更詳細的文字請教育部長來說明當然不是這樣子嘛接下來我首先請問一下這個院長有關於現金發放的具體時程你們都準備好了嗎\n\n10:25.461 --> 10:37.779\n上午的時候財政部副部長也提過我們先期的準備作業都已經在陸續展開了所以如果說這個特別預算通過的話可以在非常短的時間內就可以發放給大家嗎\n\n10:38.876 --> 11:04.323\n上幾位委員都有推敲我們如果大院在10月17號審議完成總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放但我們會把腳步加快OK那麼我希望能夠盡速的讓人民都能夠趕快領到這筆現金因為畢竟現在大家真的通貨膨脹而且最近有些災情等等其實人民都很需要這筆錢好那接下來我就要請教部長教育部部長政部長那麼教育部在這次的預算裡面編列了200億\n\n11:05.723 --> 11:25.940\n那么用来是办理强化高等教育人才其中100亿呢是补助大专院校的提升校务经营还有采购大学医院里面的一些仪器设备及软体系统另外100亿呢则是补助给大学要延揽出品教师的签约金还要精进产学合作那么这所以就是个比加起来是200亿\n\n11:26.781 --> 11:45.578\n可是上面這些項目事實上教育部已經在年度預算當中都已經編列過了而且例行性的就會補助大專院校的這些基本維運還有整體發展所需的費用所以可不可以請部長可以告訴本席到底你們這次在特別預算裡面你們所你們預算的重點是什麼\n\n11:46.718 --> 12:03.679\n跟委員報告我想委員也來自大學然後包含清大的校長也都說跟我們特別提到在許多的科技產業因為蓬勃發展所以理工的實施確實是有餘力的我相信委員也非常了解國際的一個縣市\n\n12:04.560 --> 12:20.222\n日本也提出了每年一千億的日幣用來延攬國際人才包含這個半導體科技產業的我想在這裡邊我們主要就希望說能夠給大學有一個更大的謝謝部長部長您講得很好\n\n12:20.723 --> 12:35.697\n可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在這個預算書裡面您回去再看看您的預算書裡他寫得非常非常清楚完全看不到重點如果您今天說我們需要去培養的是STEM人才\n\n12:36.657 --> 13:00.746\n需要培養是半導體的這個科技的人才我們需要延攬相關的資資那這方面本席當然是支持可是我想這個部長你也曾經當過中山大學的校長寫過這個高教深耕計畫我想你在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能說寫了短短幾行字然後就可以向這個教育部拿到兩億的計畫或是兩百億的計畫這是不可能的所以呢我要講的就是說\n\n13:01.626 --> 13:20.218\n講得很詳細但是在婚姻主持者上沒有沒有預算書還是可以寫得詳細還是可以寫得詳細真的你們這個部分我其實如果說大家有疑問的話我們來改進所以我覺得說這樣的預算說明書實在是太草率了不到一頁就要\n\n13:20.718 --> 13:33.888\n申請200億的經費如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎至少我不會因為我基本上我是一個嚴謹的人我會嚴格的去看每一個預算那麼當然這個問題其實不僅是發生在教育部其實像勞動部其實有類似的問題\n\n13:38.632 --> 13:54.629\n那麼勞動部在這一次的這個預算特別預算當中支持勞工安定就業的預算其實就編列了高達一百五十億可是這些支持在這個項目底下他編了十項計劃裡面有很多的內容都是既有的措施\n\n13:55.089 --> 14:18.257\n或者是說是在COVID的疫情關係相關措施的框架底下它不過是微調適用的範圍對象補助條件等等所以簡單來說它基本上跟一般的年度預算基本上是差不多的還是有出現有重複編列的狀況再說現在勞動部有多少就業安定基金目前的規模是有多少錢\n\n14:19.649 --> 14:33.059\n目前就業管理基金每年每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下但是我們去查你們到目前為止大概是有475億所以這475億的經費難道不能夠用來去作為去支應如果說萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊那造成一些勞工\n\n14:42.265 --> 14:57.300\n失業要幫助他們的這個就業我想這個就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定的產業受到影響的勞工他們失業的補助我覺得這樣是比較合理否則的話根本看不出來\n\n14:58.962 --> 15:05.226\n那我說明一下可以嗎我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊\n\n15:28.022 --> 15:28.243\n謝謝翁委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":10.549,"end":11.976,"text":"謝謝主席這邊有請院長請卓院長備詢"},{"start":25.103,"end":44.534,"text":"今天立法院這裡審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及國土安全任性的特別預算我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關那麼在面對美國對台灣實施的高關稅以及在最近匯率"},{"start":46.116,"end":62.376,"text":"強烈的變動的情況之下可能會對於台灣的產業經濟民生社會所帶來的衝擊那麼以及各個部會機關然後因應相關的國際形勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理"},{"start":63.337,"end":86.637,"text":"不是有合乎实际的需求所以在这里我首先想请问院长就是从今年四月份开始川普总统他宣布了实施对等关税以来到现在已经半年了那么我们知道这个郑立军副院长其实他也带队到美国去谈判至今应该已经谈判了五次那么到目前为止到底有没有什么具体的结论"},{"start":88.183,"end":114.887,"text":"曾副院長在昨天的下午有把最後一次雙方實體的談判的一個階段性的結果跟國人報告那目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議那這個部分因為美方現在還有一點在內部的問題稍微停頓下來但我希望我也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久我們繼續往這個方向前進希望在"},{"start":115.727,"end":139.202,"text":"這個月內 剛剛委員提過 王委員提過我們希望在這個月內 他可以看到一個實質的進展因為國內跟人民 產業跟人民都非常的期待趕快的定案下來是的 我想其實大家最關心的還是就是說到底疊加20%的預算疊加20%的關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性我們正在爭取更合理的"},{"start":140.246,"end":164.396,"text":"對的關稅 也在爭取不疊加的賴總統他口口聲聲都說這20%的關稅稅率是所謂的暫時性的稅率可是事實上我們看到美國官方所公布的在他們行政命令上面所公布的關稅付表裡面根本沒有出現暫時性關稅的字眼所以事實上這個稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%"},{"start":166.377,"end":195.002,"text":"但是我們的政府好像始終沒有把這樣的一個訊息很正確的告訴民眾當然或許在這20%之後有可能假設我們釋出了更多的利多更釋出了更多的台灣這些產業的利益有可能會換取到下降但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能那麼當然在這項的稅率裡面我想大家民眾的最關心的就是到底我們台灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情"},{"start":195.662,"end":216.282,"text":"要採購美國什麼項目這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的我想請問為什麼就是到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲然後讓國人一頭霧水霧裡看花稿搞不清楚說到底我們台灣是投資還有採購了什麼事情那我們知道看看其他國家"},{"start":217.423,"end":235.609,"text":"不管是日本 韓國 歐盟等等他們其實都很大方的揭露跟美國的談判的狀況進度讓他們的民眾知道即便是說可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響讓民眾也可以提早做些準備讓產業界可以提早做些準備"},{"start":236.269,"end":258.411,"text":"所以就這個部分來說我其實不是很認同現在行政院爛政府的做法因為在整個談判過程當中讓大家外界看到就是感覺就是這個偷偷摸摸啊然後這個語焉不詳然後遮遮掩掩的那實際上有很多事情其實就應該開誠布公的跟大家來講"},{"start":260.272,"end":275.027,"text":"那在产业座谈会或是跟立法院做相关的报告以某种程度也取得立法院的支持我觉得这个部分是重要的否则你们现在去谈了谈了回来之后到底立法院买不买单都还是另外一回事呢"},{"start":275.974,"end":303.335,"text":"我相信日本也好歐盟也好也是在他們完成最後協議的時候整體的全貌才會讓大家知道之前的可能都是一種推測那現在我們在原來宣布的32%後來暫時10%後來又恢復到20%但是美方有提到只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整所以我們認為這20%是暫時性的我們在努力爭取更好那爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常非常多"},{"start":304.116,"end":326.637,"text":"不合理的代價而是雙方基於一種合作的模式我們希望說對等關稅就是合作的模式至於採購或是投資的內容能容許部長來答覆我想這個部分就暫時因為時間的關係那麼當然你看像前陣子這個農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概一千億美金的"},{"start":329.077,"end":353.343,"text":"這個農產品就讓大家很恐慌是不是這個部分未來什麼我們的什麼玉小麥等等的這些都是會讓利了那沒關係這個部分的話我想總之就是我們會期待行政院其實還有各部會如果你們知道一些情況跟美國談的這個狀況就應該要資訊揭露讓大家能夠清楚否則的話簡單來說這就是黑箱嘛不透明難怪會讓國人會"},{"start":355.843,"end":384.333,"text":"質疑就是說民進黨政府是不是出賣了台灣某些產業的利益我們放心 我們都一起把握這個國家最大的利益再不違反國際談判的慣例跟雙方保密原則我們都跟社會做溝通接下來我就要實際上進入到實質的特別預算書的內容了那本席其實仔細看了這項高達5500億的特別預算那麼基本上坦白說我真的看不出來他的特別地方在哪裡"},{"start":385.393,"end":405.487,"text":"因為翻開就是各個部會機關所寫的內容事實上跟114年今年度的預算跟明年度的編列的預算的項目高度的相似也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊更抽象更空洞"},{"start":407.048,"end":425.239,"text":"我想不仅是我看到这样的状况其实有些媒体他们基本上看了预算书之后也有同样的感受而且里面跌床驾屋重复编列的情形是相当的严重所以我在这边也请院长看看本席所整理的一个图表"},{"start":425.839,"end":448.259,"text":"在这份特别的预算书当中除了普发现金1万元的2350亿元的项目是很明确的之外九个部会机关里面写了不到40页的计划说明书就要拿走纳税人3150亿元的纳税金平均一页的计划书就值80亿"},{"start":449.64,"end":472.137,"text":"一字一意我讲一字一字千金它是一字千亿这个基本上我想对于国人来讲没有办法接受尤其是我们立法委员我们看了这些预算书之后呢真的是觉得瞠目结舌要花这么多的钱可是我们看到的内容却是非常非常的模糊我们看看教育部好了"},{"start":473.345,"end":484.808,"text":"教育部寫了半頁不到一頁再寫了半頁210個字就要申請200億的經費國防部大概寫了兩頁半然後600多個字編了1131億"},{"start":490.47,"end":510.514,"text":"但我們看到這些機關基本上他們草率編列特別預算的這樣做法說實在話本席看了是挺生氣的而且真的說叫我不砍預算也很難因為真的裡面寫得太模糊了那麼人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能夠就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉"},{"start":514.655,"end":539.771,"text":"所以在这个部分我想请教就是各部会计划就是你们有没有认真去思考到底因应高关税汇率的变动导致产业经济衰退这个产业出走人才流失等这些问题有没有一个具体的更仔细的计划或是更有建设性的计划不要忘记我们这次的特别条例它前面一个很重要的一个目标"},{"start":540.947,"end":561.008,"text":"或是一個前提是叫做為了因應國際情勢為了因應國際情勢所以所有的變略的預算的項目內容都要環繞著我們如何去因應國際這個情勢的這個劇烈的變化對我們所產生的影響但是呢我現在看到這個行政院"},{"start":561.648,"end":583.273,"text":"基本上就是想要借机好像把各种想得到的这个要钱的名目全部都灌到特别预算里面而且呢甚至还想要技术性的回补在114年度里面可能删除掉的一些预算所以就这个部分这种趁火打劫的做法坦白说真的还令人蛮反感的那么我给委员报告一下"},{"start":584.164,"end":597.509,"text":"如果你用頁數跟文字表示說我們對預算的不夠嚴謹我也要替你表示委屈你今天15分鐘我就請你要通過我們的5500億也太多但不是這樣子外來到委員會的時候會詳細的審查"},{"start":599.315,"end":622.236,"text":"教育部國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡面讓大家來討論啊因為你們的預算報告書裡面將來會提出更詳細的文字請教育部長來說明當然不是這樣子嘛接下來我首先請問一下這個院長有關於現金發放的具體時程你們都準備好了嗎"},{"start":625.461,"end":637.779,"text":"上午的時候財政部副部長也提過我們先期的準備作業都已經在陸續展開了所以如果說這個特別預算通過的話可以在非常短的時間內就可以發放給大家嗎"},{"start":638.876,"end":664.323,"text":"上幾位委員都有推敲我們如果大院在10月17號審議完成總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放但我們會把腳步加快OK 那麼我希望能夠盡速的讓人民都能夠趕快領到這筆現金因為畢竟現在大家真的通貨膨脹而且最近有些災情等等其實人民都很需要這筆錢好 那接下來我就要請教部長教育部部長 政部長那麼教育部在這次的預算裡面編列了200億"},{"start":665.723,"end":685.94,"text":"那么用来是办理强化高等教育人才其中100亿呢是补助大专院校的提升校务经营还有采购大学医院里面的一些仪器设备及软体系统另外100亿呢则是补助给大学要延揽出品教师的签约金还要精进产学合作那么这所以就是个比加起来是200亿"},{"start":686.781,"end":705.578,"text":"可是上面這些項目事實上教育部已經在年度預算當中都已經編列過了而且例行性的就會補助大專院校的這些基本維運還有整體發展所需的費用所以可不可以請部長可以告訴本席到底你們這次在特別預算裡面你們所你們預算的重點是什麼"},{"start":706.718,"end":723.679,"text":"跟委員報告我想委員也來自大學然後包含清大的校長也都說跟我們特別提到在許多的科技產業因為蓬勃發展所以理工的實施確實是有餘力的我相信委員也非常了解國際的一個縣市"},{"start":724.56,"end":740.222,"text":"日本也提出了每年一千億的日幣用來延攬國際人才包含這個半導體科技產業的我想在這裡邊我們主要就希望說能夠給大學有一個更大的謝謝部長部長您講得很好"},{"start":740.723,"end":755.697,"text":"可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在這個預算書裡面您回去再看看您的預算書裡他寫得非常非常清楚 完全看不到重點如果您今天說我們需要去培養的是STEM人才"},{"start":756.657,"end":780.746,"text":"需要培養是半導體的這個科技的人才我們需要延攬相關的資資那這方面本席當然是支持可是我想這個部長你也曾經當過中山大學的校長寫過這個高教深耕計畫我想你在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能說寫了短短幾行字然後就可以向這個教育部拿到兩億的計畫或是兩百億的計畫這是不可能的所以呢我要講的就是說"},{"start":781.626,"end":800.218,"text":"講得很詳細但是在婚姻主持者上沒有沒有預算書還是可以寫得詳細還是可以寫得詳細真的你們這個部分我其實如果說大家有疑問的話我們來改進所以我覺得說這樣的預算說明書實在是太草率了不到一頁就要"},{"start":800.718,"end":813.888,"text":"申請200億的經費如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎至少我不會因為我基本上我是一個嚴謹的人我會嚴格的去看每一個預算那麼當然這個問題其實不僅是發生在教育部其實像勞動部其實有類似的問題"},{"start":818.632,"end":834.629,"text":"那麼勞動部在這一次的這個預算特別預算當中支持勞工安定就業的預算其實就編列了高達一百五十億可是這些支持在這個項目底下他編了十項計劃裡面有很多的內容都是既有的措施"},{"start":835.089,"end":858.257,"text":"或者是說是在COVID的疫情關係相關措施的框架底下它不過是微調適用的範圍對象補助條件等等所以簡單來說它基本上跟一般的年度預算基本上是差不多的還是有出現有重複編列的狀況再說現在勞動部有多少就業安定基金目前的規模是有多少錢"},{"start":859.649,"end":873.059,"text":"目前就業管理基金每年每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下但是我們去查你們到目前為止大概是有475億所以這475億的經費難道不能夠用來去作為去支應如果說萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊那造成一些勞工"},{"start":882.265,"end":897.3,"text":"失業要幫助他們的這個就業我想這個就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定的產業受到影響的勞工他們失業的補助我覺得這樣是比較合理否則的話根本看不出來"},{"start":898.962,"end":905.226,"text":"那我說明一下可以嗎我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊"},{"start":928.022,"end":928.243,"text":"謝謝翁委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":84,"blocks":[["翁委員曉玲：（14時16分）謝謝主席，有請院長。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：翁委員好。"],["翁委員曉玲：卓院長好。今天立法院審查因應國際情勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性的特別預算，我想最主要的目的其實就是要看行政院的各個部會機關，在面對美國對臺灣實施的高關稅，以及最近匯率強烈變動的情況之下，可能會對於臺灣的產業、經濟、民生、社會所帶來的衝擊，以及各個部會機關因應相關國際情勢的變動可能提出的因應方案和所需經費是否合理，是不是有合乎實際的需求。","首先想請問院長，從今年4月份開始川普總統宣布實施對等關稅以來，到現在已經半年了，我們知道鄭麗君副院長其實也帶隊到美國去談判，至今應該已經談判了5次，到目前為止，到底有沒有什麼具體的結論？"],["卓院長榮泰：鄭副院長在昨天下午有把最後一次雙方實體談判的階段性結果跟國人報告，目前我們還在進行最後的總結會議跟最後的協議，這部分因為美方現在還有一點內部的問題稍微停頓下來，我希望也相信他們的問題應該不會持續太久，我們繼續往這個方向前進。剛剛王委員也有提過，我們希望在這個月內可以看到實質的進展，因為國內的產業跟人民都非常期待能趕快定案下來。"],["翁委員曉玲：是的，我想大家最關心的還是疊加20%關稅的稅率有沒有下降的可能性？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們正在爭取更合理的對等關稅，也在爭取不疊加的……"],["翁委員曉玲：賴總統口口聲聲說這20%關稅的稅率是所謂的暫時性稅率。"],["卓院長榮泰：是，目前是暫時性稅率。"],["翁委員曉玲：可是事實上，我們看到美國官方在他們行政命令上所公布的關稅附表裡面，根本沒有出現暫時性關稅這幾個字眼，所以稅率應該很確定就是疊加20%，但是我們政府好像始終沒有把這樣的訊息很正確的告訴民眾，當然或許20%之後有可能……假設我們釋出更多的利多，釋出更多臺灣這些產業的利益，有可能會換取下降關稅，但是眼前看起來似乎不太可能。","在這項的稅率裡面，我想民眾最關心的就是到底我們臺灣承諾了要投資美國什麼事情？要採購美國什麼項目？這應該是老百姓還有產業界最關心的。我想請問為什麼到現在為止都還不肯透露風聲，讓國人一頭霧水、霧裡看花，搞不清楚到底我們臺灣投資、採購了什麼？","看看其他國家，不管日本、韓國、歐盟等等，他們其實都很大方的揭露與美國的談判狀況及進度，讓他們的民眾知道即便可能會產生什麼樣巨大的影響，讓民眾可以提早做些準備，讓產業界也可以提早做些準備。就這個部分來說，我其實不是很認同現在行政院或賴政府的作法，因為在整個談判當中，讓外界感覺的就是偷偷摸摸、語焉不詳、遮遮掩掩，實際上有很多事情就應該開誠布公的跟大家講，在產業座談會或是跟立法院做相關的報告，某種程度也取得立法院的支持，我覺得這個部分是重要的，否則你們現在去談，談了回來之後到底立法院買不買單，都還是另外一回事呢！"],["卓院長榮泰：我相信日本也好、歐盟也好，也是在他們完成最後協議的時候，整體的全貌才會讓大家知道，之前的可能都是一種推測。原來宣布的是32%，後來暫時降到10%，後來又恢復到20%，但是美方有提到，只要達到最後協議的時候都可能再調整，所以我們認為20%是現在暫時性的，我們再努力爭取更好，但爭取更好不代表我們要付出非常、非常多不合理的代價，而是雙方基於一種合作的模式，我們希望對等關稅就是一種合作的模式，至於採購或是投資的內容，請容許由部長來答復。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，我想這個部分就暫時這樣，因為時間的關係。你看像前一陣子農業部部長帶團去說要採購大概1,000億美金的農產品，就讓大家很恐慌，擔心未來我們的黃小玉等等是不是就會讓利了？"],["卓院長榮泰：不是、不是。"],["龔部長明鑫：這都是民間……"],["卓院長榮泰：那是民間的產業、民間的協會。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，民間的企業。"],["翁委員曉玲：沒關係，針對這部分，總之我們會期待行政院及各部會，如果你們知道一些我們跟美國談的狀況，就應該要資訊揭露，讓大家能夠清楚，否則的話，簡單來說這就是黑箱、不透明，難怪國人會質疑民進黨政府是不是出賣了臺灣某些產業的利益。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員放心，我們都一起把握國家最大的利益，在不違反國際談判的慣例及雙方保密原則之下，我們都跟社會做溝通。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，謝謝院長。接下來我就要進入到實質特別預算書的內容，本席仔細看了這項高達5,500億的特別預算，坦白說我真的看不出來它特別的地方在哪裡，翻開各個部會機關所寫的內容，事實上跟今年度（114年）的預算以及明年度所編列預算的項目高度相似，也就是和一般的年度預算沒有什麼大不同，甚至可能還比一般年度的預算書寫得更模糊、更抽象、更空洞。我想不僅是我看到這樣的狀況，其實有些媒體看了這個預算書之後也有同樣的感受，而且裡面疊床架屋、重複編列的情形相當嚴重。我在這邊也請院長看看本席所整理的一個圖表，在這份特別預算書當中，除了普發現金1萬元所編列的2,350億元項目很明確之外，9個部會機關寫了不到40頁的計畫說明書，就要拿走納稅人3,150億元的納稅金，平均一頁的計畫書就值80億，等於是一字一億，我們講一字千金，而它是一字千億，我想這對於國人來講是沒有辦法接受的，尤其是立法委員，我們看了這些預算書之後，真的是覺得瞠目結舌，要花這麼多的錢，可是我們看到的內容卻是非常、非常的模糊……"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我們產業……"],["翁委員曉玲：我們看看教育部好了，教育部寫了半頁、還不到一頁，總共210個字就要申請200億的經費；國防部大概寫了兩頁半，總共六百多個字，編了1,131億。我們看到這些機關草率編列特別預算的這種作法，說實在話，本席看了是挺生氣的，要叫我不砍預算也很難，因為裡面真的寫得太模糊了，人民辛辛苦苦繳納的納稅錢不能就讓行政機關這麼樣的浪費揮霍掉，所以就這部分我想請教，各部會機關有沒有認真思考，到底如何因應高關稅、匯率的變動，所導致產業的經濟衰退、產業出走及人才流失等等問題？有沒有一個具體的、更仔細的計畫？或是更有建設性的計畫？不要忘記這次的特別條例前面有一個很重要的目標或前提：為了因應國際情勢！為了因應國際情勢！因此，所編列的預算、項目及內容都要環繞著我們該如何去因應國際的情勢劇烈變化及對我們所產生的影響。但我現在所看到的，基本上行政院就是藉機把各種想得到的要錢的名目，全部灌到特別預算裡面，甚至還想技術性回補在114年度預算裡面刪除掉的一些預算！所以就這部分來說，這種趁火打劫的作法，坦白說，真的還令人滿反感的！"],["卓院長榮泰：我要跟委員報告一下，如果你用頁數跟文字來表示我們對預算編列的不夠嚴謹，那麼我也要替你表示委屈！你今天15分鐘時間，我就要請你通過我們的5,500億預算，這也太多……但不是這樣子的！未來到委員會時會詳細審查，教育部、國防部會提出詳細的文字在委員會裡讓大家來討論，所以不是用這樣的……"],["翁委員曉玲：謝謝院長。我為什麼要這麼說？因為你們在預算報告書裡、這是你們的預算報告……"],["卓院長榮泰：將來會提出更詳細的文字，請教育部長來說明。當然不是這樣子嘛！"],["翁委員曉玲：說明裡面就這麼一點點文字。我待會兒才會問到教育部長，部長先等一下。接下來我要先請問院長有關現金發放的具體時程。你們都準備好了嗎？相關的發放作業程序都準備得差不多了嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：上午時財政部莊部長也提過，我們先期的準備作業已經在陸續展開了。"],["翁委員曉玲：所以當特別預算三讀通過，可以在非常短的時間內發放給大家嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：前面幾位委員都有在推敲，如果大院在10月17日審議完成，總統公布之後的一個月內我們就會發放，但我們會把腳步加快。"],["翁委員曉玲：好，OK。我希望能夠儘速、趕快讓人民領到這筆現金，畢竟現在有通貨膨脹，而且最近還有些災情等等，其實人民都很需要這筆錢。","接下來我要請教教育部鄭部長。教育部在這次的預算編列了200億，用來辦理強化高等教育人才。其中100億是補助大專院校提升校務經營，及採購大學醫院裡的儀器設備與軟體系統。另外100億則是補助大學延攬初聘教師的簽約金，並精進產學合作，所以個別加起來是200億。可是上面這些項目，事實上教育部在年度預算當中都已經編列過了，是例行性補助大專院校的基本維運，還有整體發展所需費用。所以可不可以請部長告訴本席，到底在這次特別預算裡，你們的預算重點是什麼？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，委員也來自大學，清大校長也跟我們特別提過因為科技產業的蓬勃發展，所以理工師資確實是有疑慮的。我相信委員非常了解國際現勢，日本甚至提出每年1,000億日幣來延攬國際人才，包含半導體科技產業在內。在這裡邊，我們主要是希望能夠給大學有一個更大的……"],["翁委員曉玲：瞭解了，謝謝部長。部長，您講得很好，可是您下面的幕僚似乎沒有把您的想法寫在預算書裡面！您回去再看看您的預算書，它寫得非常、非常粗糙，完全看不到重點……"],["鄭部長英耀：在分組的時候，我們會再跟委員做更詳細的報告。"],["翁委員曉玲：如果您今天說我們需要培養STEM人才、需要培養半導體科技人才，所以需要延攬相關師資，這方面本席當然支持。部長，你曾經當過中山大學校長，寫過高教深耕計畫，我想您在寫計畫的時候絕對不可能寫了短短幾行字就可以向教育部拿到2億計畫或是200億計畫，這是不可能的！"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，預算書不可能講的很詳細，但在分組審查，我想我們會……"],["翁委員曉玲：沒有、沒有！預算書還是可以寫得詳細，還是可以寫得詳細。真的，你們這個部分如果大家覺得有疑問的話……"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員指正，我們來改進……"],["翁委員曉玲：待會兒就會公布。所以我覺得這樣的預算說明書實在太草率了，不到一頁就想申請200億經費，如果您是立法委員您會同意嗎？至少我不會，因為基本上我是一個嚴謹的人，我會嚴格地去看每一項預算。當然，這個問題不僅發生在教育部，其實像勞動部也有類似的問題，勞動部在這一次的特別預算當中，支持勞工安定就業的預算就編列了高達150億，在這個項目底下一共編了10項計畫，但裡面有很多內容都是既有的措施或者是在COVID疫情相關措施的框架底下，不過是微調了適用的範圍、對象、補助條件等等，所以簡單來說，它基本上跟一般的年度預算是差不多的，還是有出現重複編列的狀況。再說呢，現在勞動部就業安定基金在目前的規模是有多少錢？"],["洪部長申翰：目前就業安定基金每年的這個……"],["翁委員曉玲：到目前為止。"],["洪部長申翰：每年收入跟支出大概是250億上下。"],["翁委員曉玲：但是我們去查了，你們到目前為止大概是有475億，既然有這475億的經費，難道不能夠用來去作為、去支應？如果萬一發生因為經濟的衝擊而造成一些勞工失業，然後要幫助他們就業的情況，我想就業安定基金還有這次的特別預算應該是要用在特定產業受到影響勞工的失業補助，我覺得這樣是比較合理的，否則的話根本看不出來……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，讓我說明一下可以嗎？"],["翁委員曉玲：不好意思，部長，因為我只剩最後一點點時間，只有30秒、20秒……"],["洪部長申翰：委員，我覺得國家的特別預算其實應該要來支持勞工啊！"],["翁委員曉玲：不僅是勞動部，海委會、內政部、衛福部都有這樣的狀況，衛福部編了5,000萬的獨居老人關懷服務等等的經費，這些其實也都應該編列在一般性的預算。","總之，現在就是行政院編列預算真的太過草率，本席希望能夠再把預算內容寫得更清楚一些，詳細數字……"],["卓院長榮泰：我會求各部會詳列計畫的內容，在委員會的時候跟委員詳細報告，請委員支持我們的預算，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝翁委員，也謝謝卓院長。","下一位請陳亭妃委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}}