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\"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"員\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:05,046 --> 00:00:09,130\n好謝謝大衛主席江蘇院長我們現在先請行政院卓院長謝謝\n\n2\n00:00:19,964 --> 00:00:47,865\n黃委員好院長好院長我們今天來討論這個預算的問題我想要先跟院長討論一個身為我們國家最高的行政首長在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法因為稍早之前有其他委員有稍微提到說前段時間就是院長好像比較排斥去普發現金1萬元那包含我們找到說在這個7月17號的時候院長講說行政院講說這個要舉債來普發現金那讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得說\n\n3\n00:00:48,706 --> 00:01:15,714\n要舉債來補發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇如果真的是靠舉債發現金我個人當然覺得不太恰當但是按照我們今天這個的報告院長剛剛到主計長的報告裡面講到這一次的裁員裡面有5500億元實際上有4444億元是用過去的年度的這個稅低剩餘舉債的部分是1056億所以換句話說如果按照一開始的\n\n4\n00:01:16,564 --> 00:01:42,870\n初心啊我們那時候是希望說為了應付這個美國關稅可能會導致民間的一些投資一些消費受到影響所以希望把這個稅地剩餘用來普發現金一萬元也就是那個普發現金一萬元在財政部的部分在現在的預算裡面也大約是2300億到2500億左右的這個這個這個金額這樣的規模我想對於這個稅地剩餘來講是足夠啦所以院長為什麼當初你要講說這個是要透過舉債來發錢因為\n\n5\n00:01:45,638 --> 00:02:06,331\n報告委員當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算的規模是4100億我應該記得後來增加到5430億增加的部分就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4100億足夠的後來刪掉了台電的1000億又刪掉了其他的相關預算所以才變成說加上2350億的\n\n6\n00:02:08,410 --> 00:02:16,378\n普發現金才變成今天這樣的一個4444億的稅基剩餘加上1056億的舉債院長我要給你表達一下立法的立場當初我們要講還是要講當後續現在這個這個韌性特別預算他已經是包山包海\n\n7\n00:02:24,526 --> 00:02:41,348\n不單單只是普發現金還包含了剛剛等一下談到的國防支出還有很多的任性的預算所以才達到5500億的規模但是在普發現金1萬元的規模上面它只花了2300多億所以理論上對我們來講我就是因為看到有稅率升有4000多億我們才去提出說\n\n8\n00:02:42,129 --> 00:03:10,476\n這些稅率剩餘應該用來普發現金讓民眾能夠共享這個經濟發展的成果順便也要去面對說因為這個美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致民間消費的問題所以我想這邊先跟郡長表達一下立場當初的4100億當中如果包含所有的2300多億的普發現金就已經會排擠其他我們認為目前國家當前所需要的後來我們增加了以後現在真的是舉債這個真的是舉債但是國人需要\n\n9\n00:03:14,259 --> 00:03:30,898\n我們尊重這個結果但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多這值得思考但是話說回來國家現在是有舉債空間的我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已副院長你現在講到這個資源排擠資源這個排序的問題我想這一次的\n\n10\n00:03:31,868 --> 00:03:58,564\n這個韌性特別預算裡面我也要問一下我們問一下院長跟問一下國防部因為這一次在這個總預算這個5500億裡面有1100多億當然是針對什麼的國防的支出要做韌性的工作但是今天要做韌性要做國防支出這部分當然民眾會支持立法院也會支持但是今天問題是說放在特別預算今天為了有這個錢是要放在特別預算因為比如說現在已經我們現在省的這個當下已經10月初了\n\n11\n00:03:59,144 --> 00:04:22,577\n那等到送出立法院到你們執行最快可能十月底從十月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月的時間明年度的總預算裡面國防預算也照樣增加而且也佔了百分之二十左右那在這個前提之下為什麼這一次要把這個韌性放在特別預算裡面可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡可以嗎\n\n12\n00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:51,830\n跟委員報告我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義的現在委員會質疑的就是說它的急迫性是如何那我今天再回顧其他委員的部分也說明就是說因為它可以分成兩大塊一塊就是說強化國土防衛能量一個是提升自動作業環境的設備這兩個措施裡面如果你用年度預算來看的話它都只能夠維持一個基本的相關的比如說彈藥庫的部分它都只能維持一個基本的\n\n13\n00:04:52,310 --> 00:05:09,931\n那或者是這個訓場的部分他都有只能維持基本的因為你用作業維持費的話我們的年度的作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善的部分那所以我們的營業陸續會籌貨大量的這個新式的武器然後還有我們營業義務役一年級的義務役\n\n14\n00:05:10,752 --> 00:05:24,884\n還有貨幣戰力提升我們必須要快速的將這些彈庫還有訓場快速的用這樣的特別預算來這樣用兩年的時間我們把它快速的整建完成之後我們才能夠足夠的因應我們需要的一個戰備的能力\n\n15\n00:05:26,125 --> 00:05:45,399\n所以我們戰備存量也要快速的提升那資通的部分呢過去也是一樣都是一些例行性的裝備的部分的一個維持那我們現在要把整個資通的這個韌性然後的機動然後能夠有備援那我們就能夠快速的能夠籌貨在這兩年之內我想對我們整個\n\n16\n00:05:46,119 --> 00:06:07,478\n自動的安全的環境以及機動的費用都很大的提升部長因為你剛剛講的這部分我們都我理解但我們也希望說這東西投下去是能夠做一個長期的支出長期的一個效用但是你看在你們送進來的總運算裡面在這個一千一百多億裡面經常門佔了一千億這個資本門六百多億我想在這比例上來講資本門的比例是不是稍微低了一點\n\n17\n00:06:10,110 --> 00:06:25,909\n這對長期投資對這種今天我們今天提這個你要提任性大家可以支持但是今天我們想要說你在整個總預算的分配裡面經常我們的比例高於資本門那就感覺是一個比例對整個國家長期的財政穩定量是有影響的\n\n18\n00:06:27,795 --> 00:06:46,847\n我想這個經常跟智本本的比例這個部分我現在沒有資料如果我再下去以後再進一步了解再跟委員來一個書面回顧但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了就是說你要快速的去強化那個韌性如果你用一般的這一個\n\n19\n00:06:47,647 --> 00:07:06,234\n年度的預算會產生一個排擠的效果這是我們現在最擔心的一個部分所以如果能夠有支應特別預售我們就能夠快速的集中資源同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購所以可以擴大內需的產能產生產業附加的效益\n\n20\n00:07:06,834 --> 00:07:30,644\n我想今天因為時間有限,我要跟部長跟院長提醒,接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查,我們今天談的特別預算裡面,不管是總預算,還是這一次這個任性的特別預算,在國防任性的支出,我想比例相比過去都相對比較高,很多的預算都是以這個為主,當然我們就擔心說會不會造成其他預算的排擠,\n\n21\n00:07:31,204 --> 00:07:49,955\n當然造成預算排擠的前提是說如果這個錢投下去就像我剛剛所強調的這個錢投下去如果是作為資本門或是作為長期的投資作為後續能夠繼續使用那當然大家可以比較好支持但是如果你的經常門的比例過高好像錢花下去就不見了我想這對於這個國家財政的完整性是有一定程度的影響\n\n22\n00:07:51,195 --> 00:08:17,426\n應該不是應該不會是這樣再請部長能夠跟委員好沒關係我這個書面書面這個資料上面有寫啦不過沒關係我們今天時間有限我們先不在這邊糾結我還是希望說把這個立場跟你們清楚的表態一下因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題就是說我們的國防支出佔比高達20%也比過去往年提高這麼多那到底錢花在什麼地方我想這是國人最關心的部分因為包含這一次的這個\n\n23\n00:08:18,286 --> 00:08:38,555\n特別預算這次認證特別預算一開始我們期待說要去面對所謂美國關稅那如果說裡面的採購的項目可以在談判的過程裡面能夠降低所謂的關稅上的落差可以去彌平所謂貿易逆差的部分那當然可能可以作為談判條件但是因為你現在講說這個的角度是用來擴大內需那也可以\n\n24\n00:08:39,095 --> 00:08:55,012\n擴大進去當然大家也可以支持就是說讓國內的產業讓國內就業人口能夠提升我想這個大家也不會太多意見但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分好不好剛剛比例的部分我再下去了解一下\n\n25\n00:08:56,303 --> 00:09:19,676\n謝謝部長院長繼續討論原本這兩天新聞包含提到說晶片製造五五分當然我們的鄭麗君院長副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情但是可能提到說要把整個產業這個科學園區去美國來設廠或提供相關的協助稍早之前經濟部的臉書有提到說矽谷只有一個大家負責矽谷但是矽谷並沒有因此造成滔空所以我們把這個產業經驗\n\n26\n00:09:21,198 --> 00:09:39,538\n複製到國外去也不會造成產業逃工剛剛有這樣的一個新聞這樣子的論述但是我們要問的是說今天大家擔心的我們講實在話我們希望世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗但是矽谷自己本身的產值它自己的這個技術它並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊\n\n27\n00:09:40,279 --> 00:09:52,682\n是我們想抄他們是我們其他國家想學習他那今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈今天如果是把它移去美國第一個\n\n28\n00:09:53,513 --> 00:10:19,065\n是不是硬體設備我們的人員培育還有我們的產能會受到影響我想這個是國人比較關心的問題其實如果是美國政府或是其他國家覺得說台灣的晶片產業很棒技術很好所以他們要在當地自己來弄讓我們提供一些技術上的協助那當然沒關係可見看起來不是啊其實看起來是你要整把整個產業如果去外移包含上下供應鏈我想這對於國內的產業上下游\n\n29\n00:10:19,725 --> 00:10:42,199\n並不是只有台積電今天台積電之所以是台積電是因為它還有完整的供應鏈它才有今天的成果那如果你把這個東西帶去美國會不會對台灣的產業造成一定程度的影響的衝擊這是第一個部分第二個部分是說今天我們在討論這個預算我們很驚訝說已經十月了但是到底談判的結果內容好像還沒有完整的說法給我們因為一直在暫時的狀況\n\n30\n00:10:44,022 --> 00:11:04,569\n前兩天美國說五五分那我們說沒有我們是要做其他的事情所以這對各個產業講真的企業界大家最希望的東西不是說談得多好或多爛是跟我們講說到底現在的情況是什麼產業他才能夠面對就是說我到底是接下來我要怎麼避險或者接下來我要不要\n\n31\n00:11:05,089 --> 00:11:20,729\n把廠怎麼樣做一個處理這個是對勞工要有一個交代對這些企業主要有一個交代但是因為我覺得現在屬於一個不定的狀態所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來因為美國會一直提出各種要求在談判過程裡面一直有不同的要求那到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情\n\n32\n00:11:21,454 --> 00:11:35,288\n包委員所謂的先進製程的部分我們的原則一定是這樣立足台灣才有佈局全球所以立足台灣最先進的技術一定是留在台灣開始發展所以在台積電現在1635億這個部分它可能會蓋六個廠\n\n33\n00:11:40,353 --> 00:11:55,464\n但是未來在中科現在已經確定了就會蓋四座廠所以單單才那是因為中科的腹地不夠大否則可能還會再蓋所以量以量來講以最先進來講一定是留在台灣所以絕對不會有所謂的掏空台灣的問題\n\n34\n00:11:56,204 --> 00:12:11,547\n好部長如果確定有你這句話另外一個就是剛剛提到其實應該這樣講沒關係因為時間有限我只要確定說這個產能它帶來的經濟效益它跟它中上下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響\n\n35\n00:12:12,734 --> 00:12:36,867\n包委員就是說我們現在大概談判的時間我們沒有辦法確定但是我們幫助企業的部分已晚即起已經開始所以我們現在三個方案包括金融支持業或者是生技轉型或者是多元市場現在收案已經收到一千多件那我們會盡快來幫忙他只是說因為已晚即起畢竟資源有限所以希望預算趕快通過我們可以擴大那個層面來協助廠商\n\n36\n00:12:38,888 --> 00:12:53,563\n好部長謝謝院長持續喔就是這個院長可以部長請回喔院長這一次的這個特別預算裡面也包含任性的部分那其中包含了這個整備防災的這個防救災緊急維生設備的建置好大概15億元這當然涉及到村裡的指揮系統\n\n37\n00:12:54,284 --> 00:13:08,370\n那我想任性這一次花蓮的這個案子我想這個跟任性就是直接相關了這就是任性的問題嘛那我想問一下我們在這個資源配置裡面包含說今天上午我想這個李洪源前部長提到說看起來目前這個驗射壺的問題他可能後續還會有\n\n38\n00:13:11,425 --> 00:13:29,448\n泥沙量還有很多目前就7000萬噸泥沙量排下來那還有2.5億噸的泥沙還在上面那可能後續考量到可能有緊急的狀況有可能有遷村或其他的狀況我不知道院長未來像這樣子的韌性的問題\n\n39\n00:13:30,643 --> 00:13:41,824\n國土安全這也是真正的國土安全那這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理還是未來遇到新的風災來我們又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情\n\n40\n00:13:43,880 --> 00:14:06,459\n這個馬太安溪的淹射壺已經從一個深的淹射壺變成一個比較淺疊性的淹射壺所以對帶來的衝擊條件就不一樣現在我們第一個希望持續的加強監測它整個水位的變化那對於它的整個淹射壺的旁邊泥沙的堆積的情況我們也會加以監測昨天你有看到我們那個直升機到現場去人員都下不去\n\n41\n00:14:07,119 --> 00:14:30,183\n目前人員都下不去當然我們稱之為菸澀湖之外我們全國各地還有其他的菸澀湖地方我們認為要起一個全面性的談診用這次的經驗來告訴大家未來要如何在菸澀湖形成之後怎麼來因應包括事變之前如何來預防性的做很多的工作預防性的工作有包含到千春這種手段嗎\n\n42\n00:14:30,823 --> 00:14:51,873\n如果真的有需要的話我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性這會減少很多人命財產的損失好院長謝謝院長今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下最後一頁我想這一次的產業衝擊對台中特別影響特別大我們在最近新公佈的所謂的減班休息裡面就是無薪假的狀況裡面\n\n43\n00:14:53,462 --> 00:15:19,701\n台中產業其實受影響衝擊最大目前來講全國目前這個減班休息的比例是最高的那因為減班休息不等於失業所以這一群人他現在等於犯無薪假他反而可能沒辦法受益於在這一次的這個條例裡面所以對於無薪假的部分政府有沒有更具體的做法或減班休息更具體的補償做事跟委員報告其實減班休息的勞工我們目前其實是有推出一個新資的差額補貼\n\n44\n00:15:21,782 --> 00:15:23,503\n因為減班休息他還是要付最低工資好謝謝黃委員\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n5046\t9130\t好 謝謝大衛主席 江蘇院長我們現在先請行政院 卓院長謝謝\n19964\t47865\t黃委員好院長好 院長我們今天來討論這個預算的問題我想要先跟院長討論一個身為我們國家最高的行政首長在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法因為稍早之前有其他委員有稍微提到說前段時間就是院長好像比較排斥去普發現金1萬元那包含我們找到說在這個7月17號的時候院長講說 行政院講說這個要舉債來普發現金那讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得說\n48706\t75714\t要舉債來補發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇如果真的是靠舉債發現金我個人當然覺得不太恰當但是按照我們今天這個的報告院長剛剛到主計長的報告裡面講到這一次的裁員裡面有5500億元實際上有4444億元是用過去的年度的這個稅低剩餘舉債的部分是1056億所以換句話說如果按照一開始的\n76564\t102870\t初心啊 我們那時候是希望說為了應付這個美國關稅可能會導致民間的一些投資一些消費受到影響所以希望把這個稅地剩餘用來普發現金一萬元也就是那個普發現金一萬元在財政部的部分在現在的預算裡面也大約是2300億到2500億左右的這個這個這個金額這樣的規模我想對於這個稅地剩餘來講是足夠啦所以院長為什麼當初你要講說這個是要透過舉債來發錢因為\n105638\t126331\t報告委員當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算的規模是4100億我應該記得後來增加到5430億增加的部分就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4100億足夠的後來刪掉了台電的1000億又刪掉了其他的相關預算所以才變成說加上2350億的\n128410\t136378\t普發現金才變成今天這樣的一個4444億的稅基剩餘加上1056億的舉債院長我要給你表達一下立法的立場當初我們要講還是要講當後續現在這個這個韌性特別預算他已經是包山包海\n144526\t161348\t不單單只是普發現金還包含了剛剛等一下談到的國防支出還有很多的任性的預算所以才達到5500億的規模但是在普發現金1萬元的規模上面它只花了2300多億所以理論上對我們來講我就是因為看到有稅率升有4000多億我們才去提出說\n162129\t190476\t這些稅率剩餘應該用來普發現金讓民眾能夠共享這個經濟發展的成果順便也要去面對說因為這個美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致民間消費的問題所以我想這邊先跟郡長表達一下立場當初的4100億當中如果包含所有的2300多億的普發現金就已經會排擠其他我們認為目前國家當前所需要的後來我們增加了以後現在真的是舉債這個真的是舉債但是國人需要\n194259\t210898\t我們尊重這個結果但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多這值得思考但是話說回來國家現在是有舉債空間的我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已副院長你現在講到這個資源排擠資源這個排序的問題我想這一次的\n211868\t238564\t這個韌性特別預算裡面我也要問一下我們問一下院長跟問一下國防部因為這一次在這個總預算這個5500億裡面有1100多億當然是針對什麼的國防的支出要做韌性的工作但是今天要做韌性要做國防支出這部分當然民眾會支持立法院也會支持但是今天問題是說放在特別預算今天為了有這個錢是要放在特別預算因為比如說現在已經我們現在省的這個當下已經10月初了\n239144\t262577\t那等到送出立法院到你們執行最快可能十月底從十月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月的時間明年度的總預算裡面國防預算也照樣增加而且也佔了百分之二十左右那在這個前提之下為什麼這一次要把這個韌性放在特別預算裡面可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡可以嗎\n263839\t291830\t跟委員報告我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義的現在委員會質疑的就是說它的急迫性是如何那我今天再回顧其他委員的部分也說明就是說因為它可以分成兩大塊一塊就是說強化國土防衛能量一個是提升自動作業環境的設備這兩個措施裡面如果你用年度預算來看的話它都只能夠維持一個基本的相關的比如說彈藥庫的部分它都只能維持一個基本的\n292310\t309931\t那或者是這個訓場的部分他都有只能維持基本的因為你用作業維持費的話我們的年度的作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善的部分那所以我們的營業陸續會籌貨大量的這個新式的武器然後還有我們營業義務役一年級的義務役\n310752\t324884\t還有貨幣戰力提升我們必須要快速的將這些彈庫還有訓場快速的用這樣的特別預算來這樣用兩年的時間我們把它快速的整建完成之後我們才能夠足夠的因應我們需要的一個戰備的能力\n326125\t345399\t所以我們戰備存量也要快速的提升那資通的部分呢過去也是一樣都是一些例行性的裝備的部分的一個維持那我們現在要把整個資通的這個韌性然後的機動然後能夠有備援那我們就能夠快速的能夠籌貨在這兩年之內我想對我們整個\n346119\t367478\t自動的安全的環境以及機動的費用都很大的提升部長因為你剛剛講的這部分我們都我理解但我們也希望說這東西投下去是能夠做一個長期的支出長期的一個效用但是你看在你們送進來的總運算裡面在這個一千一百多億裡面經常門佔了一千億這個資本門六百多億我想在這比例上來講資本門的比例是不是稍微低了一點\n370110\t385909\t這對長期投資對這種今天我們今天提這個你要提任性大家可以支持但是今天我們想要說你在整個總預算的分配裡面經常我們的比例高於資本門那就感覺是一個比例對整個國家長期的財政穩定量是有影響的\n387795\t406847\t我想這個經常跟智本本的比例這個部分我現在沒有資料如果我再下去以後再進一步了解再跟委員來一個書面回顧但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了就是說你要快速的去強化那個韌性如果你用一般的這一個\n407647\t426234\t年度的預算會產生一個排擠的效果這是我們現在最擔心的一個部分所以如果能夠有支應特別預售我們就能夠快速的集中資源同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購所以可以擴大內需的產能產生產業附加的效益\n426834\t450644\t我想今天因為時間有限,我要跟部長跟院長提醒,接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查,我們今天談的特別預算裡面,不管是總預算,還是這一次這個任性的特別預算,在國防任性的支出,我想比例相比過去都相對比較高,很多的預算都是以這個為主,當然我們就擔心說會不會造成其他預算的排擠,\n451204\t469955\t當然造成預算排擠的前提是說如果這個錢投下去就像我剛剛所強調的這個錢投下去如果是作為資本門或是作為長期的投資作為後續能夠繼續使用那當然大家可以比較好支持但是如果你的經常門的比例過高好像錢花下去就不見了我想這對於這個國家財政的完整性是有一定程度的影響\n471195\t497426\t應該不是 應該不會是這樣再請部長能夠跟委員好 沒關係我這個書面書面這個資料上面有寫啦不過沒關係我們今天時間有限我們先不在這邊糾結我還是希望說把這個立場跟你們清楚的表態一下因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題就是說我們的國防支出佔比高達20%也比過去往年提高這麼多那到底錢花在什麼地方我想這是國人最關心的部分因為包含這一次的這個\n498286\t518555\t特別預算 這次認證特別預算一開始我們期待說要去面對所謂美國關稅那如果說裡面的採購的項目可以在談判的過程裡面能夠降低所謂的關稅上的落差可以去彌平所謂貿易逆差的部分那當然可能可以作為談判條件但是因為你現在講說這個的角度是用來擴大內需那也可以\n519095\t535012\t擴大進去當然大家也可以支持就是說讓國內的產業讓國內就業人口能夠提升我想這個大家也不會太多意見但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分好不好剛剛比例的部分我再下去了解一下\n536303\t559676\t謝謝部長 院長繼續討論原本這兩天新聞包含提到說晶片製造五五分當然我們的鄭麗君院長副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情但是可能提到說要把整個產業這個科學園區去美國來設廠或提供相關的協助稍早之前經濟部的臉書有提到說矽谷只有一個大家負責矽谷但是矽谷並沒有因此造成滔空所以我們把這個產業經驗\n561198\t579538\t複製到國外去也不會造成產業逃工剛剛有這樣的一個新聞這樣子的論述但是我們要問的是說今天大家擔心的我們講實在話我們希望世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗但是矽谷自己本身的產值它自己的這個技術它並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊\n580279\t592682\t是我們想抄他們是我們其他國家想學習他那今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈今天如果是把它移去美國第一個\n593513\t619065\t是不是硬體設備 我們的人員培育還有我們的產能會受到影響我想這個是國人比較關心的問題其實如果是美國政府或是其他國家覺得說台灣的晶片產業很棒 技術很好所以他們要在當地自己來弄讓我們提供一些技術上的協助那當然沒關係 可見看起來不是啊其實看起來是你要整把整個產業如果去外移 包含上下供應鏈我想這對於國內的產業 上下游\n619725\t642199\t並不是只有台積電今天台積電之所以是台積電是因為它還有完整的供應鏈它才有今天的成果那如果你把這個東西帶去美國會不會對台灣的產業造成一定程度的影響的衝擊這是第一個部分第二個部分是說今天我們在討論這個預算我們很驚訝說已經十月了但是到底談判的結果內容好像還沒有完整的說法給我們因為一直在暫時的狀況\n644022\t664569\t前兩天美國說五五分那我們說沒有我們是要做其他的事情所以這對各個產業講真的企業界大家最希望的東西不是說談得多好或多爛是跟我們講說到底現在的情況是什麼產業他才能夠面對就是說我到底是接下來我要怎麼避險或者接下來我要不要\n665089\t680729\t把廠怎麼樣做一個處理這個是對勞工要有一個交代對這些企業主要有一個交代但是因為我覺得現在屬於一個不定的狀態所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來因為美國會一直提出各種要求在談判過程裡面一直有不同的要求那到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情\n681454\t695288\t包委員所謂的先進製程的部分我們的原則一定是這樣立足台灣才有佈局全球所以立足台灣最先進的技術一定是留在台灣開始發展所以在台積電現在1635億這個部分它可能會蓋六個廠\n700353\t715464\t但是未來在中科現在已經確定了就會蓋四座廠所以單單才那是因為中科的腹地不夠大否則可能還會再蓋所以量以量來講以最先進來講一定是留在台灣所以絕對不會有所謂的掏空台灣的問題\n716204\t731547\t好 部長如果確定有你這句話另外一個就是剛剛提到其實應該這樣講沒關係 因為時間有限我只要確定說這個產能它帶來的經濟效益它跟它中上下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響\n732734\t756867\t包委員就是說我們現在大概談判的時間我們沒有辦法確定但是我們幫助企業的部分已晚即起已經開始所以我們現在三個方案包括金融支持業或者是生技轉型或者是多元市場現在收案已經收到一千多件那我們會盡快來幫忙他只是說因為已晚即起畢竟資源有限所以希望預算趕快通過我們可以擴大那個層面來協助廠商\n758888\t773563\t好部長謝謝院長持續喔就是這個院長可以部長請回喔院長這一次的這個特別預算裡面也包含任性的部分那其中包含了這個整備防災的這個防救災緊急維生設備的建置好大概15億元這當然涉及到村裡的指揮系統\n774284\t788370\t那我想任性這一次花蓮的這個案子我想這個跟任性就是直接相關了這就是任性的問題嘛那我想問一下我們在這個資源配置裡面包含說今天上午我想這個李洪源前部長提到說看起來目前這個驗射壺的問題他可能後續還會有\n791425\t809448\t泥沙量還有很多 目前就7000萬噸泥沙量排下來那還有2.5億噸的泥沙還在上面那可能後續考量到可能有緊急的狀況有可能有遷村或其他的狀況我不知道院長未來像這樣子的韌性的問題\n810643\t821824\t國土安全這也是真正的國土安全那這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理還是未來遇到新的風災來我們又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情\n823880\t846459\t這個馬太安溪的淹射壺已經從一個深的淹射壺變成一個比較淺疊性的淹射壺所以對帶來的衝擊條件就不一樣現在我們第一個希望持續的加強監測它整個水位的變化那對於它的整個淹射壺的旁邊泥沙的堆積的情況我們也會加以監測昨天你有看到我們那個直升機到現場去人員都下不去\n847119\t870183\t目前人員都下不去當然我們稱之為菸澀湖之外我們全國各地還有其他的菸澀湖地方我們認為要起一個全面性的談診用這次的經驗來告訴大家未來要如何在菸澀湖形成之後怎麼來因應包括事變之前如何來預防性的做很多的工作預防性的工作有包含到千春這種手段嗎\n870823\t891873\t如果真的有需要的話我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性這會減少很多人命財產的損失好 院長謝謝院長今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下最後一頁我想這一次的產業衝擊對台中特別影響特別大我們在最近新公佈的所謂的減班休息裡面就是無薪假的狀況裡面\n893462\t919701\t台中產業其實受影響衝擊最大目前來講全國目前這個減班休息的比例是最高的那因為減班休息不等於失業所以這一群人他現在等於犯無薪假他反而可能沒辦法受益於在這一次的這個條例裡面所以對於無薪假的部分政府有沒有更具體的做法或減班休息更具體的補償做事跟委員報告其實減班休息的勞工我們目前其實是有推出一個新資的差額補貼\n921782\t923503\t因為減班休息他還是要付最低工資好謝謝黃委員\n","txt":"好 謝謝大衛主席 江蘇院長我們現在先請行政院 卓院長謝謝\n黃委員好院長好 院長我們今天來討論這個預算的問題我想要先跟院長討論一個身為我們國家最高的行政首長在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法因為稍早之前有其他委員有稍微提到說前段時間就是院長好像比較排斥去普發現金1萬元那包含我們找到說在這個7月17號的時候院長講說 行政院講說這個要舉債來普發現金那讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得說\n要舉債來補發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇如果真的是靠舉債發現金我個人當然覺得不太恰當但是按照我們今天這個的報告院長剛剛到主計長的報告裡面講到這一次的裁員裡面有5500億元實際上有4444億元是用過去的年度的這個稅低剩餘舉債的部分是1056億所以換句話說如果按照一開始的\n初心啊 我們那時候是希望說為了應付這個美國關稅可能會導致民間的一些投資一些消費受到影響所以希望把這個稅地剩餘用來普發現金一萬元也就是那個普發現金一萬元在財政部的部分在現在的預算裡面也大約是2300億到2500億左右的這個這個這個金額這樣的規模我想對於這個稅地剩餘來講是足夠啦所以院長為什麼當初你要講說這個是要透過舉債來發錢因為\n報告委員當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算的規模是4100億我應該記得後來增加到5430億增加的部分就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4100億足夠的後來刪掉了台電的1000億又刪掉了其他的相關預算所以才變成說加上2350億的\n普發現金才變成今天這樣的一個4444億的稅基剩餘加上1056億的舉債院長我要給你表達一下立法的立場當初我們要講還是要講當後續現在這個這個韌性特別預算他已經是包山包海\n不單單只是普發現金還包含了剛剛等一下談到的國防支出還有很多的任性的預算所以才達到5500億的規模但是在普發現金1萬元的規模上面它只花了2300多億所以理論上對我們來講我就是因為看到有稅率升有4000多億我們才去提出說\n這些稅率剩餘應該用來普發現金讓民眾能夠共享這個經濟發展的成果順便也要去面對說因為這個美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致民間消費的問題所以我想這邊先跟郡長表達一下立場當初的4100億當中如果包含所有的2300多億的普發現金就已經會排擠其他我們認為目前國家當前所需要的後來我們增加了以後現在真的是舉債這個真的是舉債但是國人需要\n我們尊重這個結果但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多這值得思考但是話說回來國家現在是有舉債空間的我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已副院長你現在講到這個資源排擠資源這個排序的問題我想這一次的\n這個韌性特別預算裡面我也要問一下我們問一下院長跟問一下國防部因為這一次在這個總預算這個5500億裡面有1100多億當然是針對什麼的國防的支出要做韌性的工作但是今天要做韌性要做國防支出這部分當然民眾會支持立法院也會支持但是今天問題是說放在特別預算今天為了有這個錢是要放在特別預算因為比如說現在已經我們現在省的這個當下已經10月初了\n那等到送出立法院到你們執行最快可能十月底從十月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月的時間明年度的總預算裡面國防預算也照樣增加而且也佔了百分之二十左右那在這個前提之下為什麼這一次要把這個韌性放在特別預算裡面可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡可以嗎\n跟委員報告我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義的現在委員會質疑的就是說它的急迫性是如何那我今天再回顧其他委員的部分也說明就是說因為它可以分成兩大塊一塊就是說強化國土防衛能量一個是提升自動作業環境的設備這兩個措施裡面如果你用年度預算來看的話它都只能夠維持一個基本的相關的比如說彈藥庫的部分它都只能維持一個基本的\n那或者是這個訓場的部分他都有只能維持基本的因為你用作業維持費的話我們的年度的作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善的部分那所以我們的營業陸續會籌貨大量的這個新式的武器然後還有我們營業義務役一年級的義務役\n還有貨幣戰力提升我們必須要快速的將這些彈庫還有訓場快速的用這樣的特別預算來這樣用兩年的時間我們把它快速的整建完成之後我們才能夠足夠的因應我們需要的一個戰備的能力\n所以我們戰備存量也要快速的提升那資通的部分呢過去也是一樣都是一些例行性的裝備的部分的一個維持那我們現在要把整個資通的這個韌性然後的機動然後能夠有備援那我們就能夠快速的能夠籌貨在這兩年之內我想對我們整個\n自動的安全的環境以及機動的費用都很大的提升部長因為你剛剛講的這部分我們都我理解但我們也希望說這東西投下去是能夠做一個長期的支出長期的一個效用但是你看在你們送進來的總運算裡面在這個一千一百多億裡面經常門佔了一千億這個資本門六百多億我想在這比例上來講資本門的比例是不是稍微低了一點\n這對長期投資對這種今天我們今天提這個你要提任性大家可以支持但是今天我們想要說你在整個總預算的分配裡面經常我們的比例高於資本門那就感覺是一個比例對整個國家長期的財政穩定量是有影響的\n我想這個經常跟智本本的比例這個部分我現在沒有資料如果我再下去以後再進一步了解再跟委員來一個書面回顧但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了就是說你要快速的去強化那個韌性如果你用一般的這一個\n年度的預算會產生一個排擠的效果這是我們現在最擔心的一個部分所以如果能夠有支應特別預售我們就能夠快速的集中資源同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購所以可以擴大內需的產能產生產業附加的效益\n我想今天因為時間有限,我要跟部長跟院長提醒,接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查,我們今天談的特別預算裡面,不管是總預算,還是這一次這個任性的特別預算,在國防任性的支出,我想比例相比過去都相對比較高,很多的預算都是以這個為主,當然我們就擔心說會不會造成其他預算的排擠,\n當然造成預算排擠的前提是說如果這個錢投下去就像我剛剛所強調的這個錢投下去如果是作為資本門或是作為長期的投資作為後續能夠繼續使用那當然大家可以比較好支持但是如果你的經常門的比例過高好像錢花下去就不見了我想這對於這個國家財政的完整性是有一定程度的影響\n應該不是 應該不會是這樣再請部長能夠跟委員好 沒關係我這個書面書面這個資料上面有寫啦不過沒關係我們今天時間有限我們先不在這邊糾結我還是希望說把這個立場跟你們清楚的表態一下因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題就是說我們的國防支出佔比高達20%也比過去往年提高這麼多那到底錢花在什麼地方我想這是國人最關心的部分因為包含這一次的這個\n特別預算 這次認證特別預算一開始我們期待說要去面對所謂美國關稅那如果說裡面的採購的項目可以在談判的過程裡面能夠降低所謂的關稅上的落差可以去彌平所謂貿易逆差的部分那當然可能可以作為談判條件但是因為你現在講說這個的角度是用來擴大內需那也可以\n擴大進去當然大家也可以支持就是說讓國內的產業讓國內就業人口能夠提升我想這個大家也不會太多意見但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分好不好剛剛比例的部分我再下去了解一下\n謝謝部長 院長繼續討論原本這兩天新聞包含提到說晶片製造五五分當然我們的鄭麗君院長副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情但是可能提到說要把整個產業這個科學園區去美國來設廠或提供相關的協助稍早之前經濟部的臉書有提到說矽谷只有一個大家負責矽谷但是矽谷並沒有因此造成滔空所以我們把這個產業經驗\n複製到國外去也不會造成產業逃工剛剛有這樣的一個新聞這樣子的論述但是我們要問的是說今天大家擔心的我們講實在話我們希望世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗但是矽谷自己本身的產值它自己的這個技術它並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊\n是我們想抄他們是我們其他國家想學習他那今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈今天如果是把它移去美國第一個\n是不是硬體設備 我們的人員培育還有我們的產能會受到影響我想這個是國人比較關心的問題其實如果是美國政府或是其他國家覺得說台灣的晶片產業很棒 技術很好所以他們要在當地自己來弄讓我們提供一些技術上的協助那當然沒關係 可見看起來不是啊其實看起來是你要整把整個產業如果去外移 包含上下供應鏈我想這對於國內的產業 上下游\n並不是只有台積電今天台積電之所以是台積電是因為它還有完整的供應鏈它才有今天的成果那如果你把這個東西帶去美國會不會對台灣的產業造成一定程度的影響的衝擊這是第一個部分第二個部分是說今天我們在討論這個預算我們很驚訝說已經十月了但是到底談判的結果內容好像還沒有完整的說法給我們因為一直在暫時的狀況\n前兩天美國說五五分那我們說沒有我們是要做其他的事情所以這對各個產業講真的企業界大家最希望的東西不是說談得多好或多爛是跟我們講說到底現在的情況是什麼產業他才能夠面對就是說我到底是接下來我要怎麼避險或者接下來我要不要\n把廠怎麼樣做一個處理這個是對勞工要有一個交代對這些企業主要有一個交代但是因為我覺得現在屬於一個不定的狀態所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來因為美國會一直提出各種要求在談判過程裡面一直有不同的要求那到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情\n包委員所謂的先進製程的部分我們的原則一定是這樣立足台灣才有佈局全球所以立足台灣最先進的技術一定是留在台灣開始發展所以在台積電現在1635億這個部分它可能會蓋六個廠\n但是未來在中科現在已經確定了就會蓋四座廠所以單單才那是因為中科的腹地不夠大否則可能還會再蓋所以量以量來講以最先進來講一定是留在台灣所以絕對不會有所謂的掏空台灣的問題\n好 部長如果確定有你這句話另外一個就是剛剛提到其實應該這樣講沒關係 因為時間有限我只要確定說這個產能它帶來的經濟效益它跟它中上下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響\n包委員就是說我們現在大概談判的時間我們沒有辦法確定但是我們幫助企業的部分已晚即起已經開始所以我們現在三個方案包括金融支持業或者是生技轉型或者是多元市場現在收案已經收到一千多件那我們會盡快來幫忙他只是說因為已晚即起畢竟資源有限所以希望預算趕快通過我們可以擴大那個層面來協助廠商\n好部長謝謝院長持續喔就是這個院長可以部長請回喔院長這一次的這個特別預算裡面也包含任性的部分那其中包含了這個整備防災的這個防救災緊急維生設備的建置好大概15億元這當然涉及到村裡的指揮系統\n那我想任性這一次花蓮的這個案子我想這個跟任性就是直接相關了這就是任性的問題嘛那我想問一下我們在這個資源配置裡面包含說今天上午我想這個李洪源前部長提到說看起來目前這個驗射壺的問題他可能後續還會有\n泥沙量還有很多 目前就7000萬噸泥沙量排下來那還有2.5億噸的泥沙還在上面那可能後續考量到可能有緊急的狀況有可能有遷村或其他的狀況我不知道院長未來像這樣子的韌性的問題\n國土安全這也是真正的國土安全那這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理還是未來遇到新的風災來我們又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情\n這個馬太安溪的淹射壺已經從一個深的淹射壺變成一個比較淺疊性的淹射壺所以對帶來的衝擊條件就不一樣現在我們第一個希望持續的加強監測它整個水位的變化那對於它的整個淹射壺的旁邊泥沙的堆積的情況我們也會加以監測昨天你有看到我們那個直升機到現場去人員都下不去\n目前人員都下不去當然我們稱之為菸澀湖之外我們全國各地還有其他的菸澀湖地方我們認為要起一個全面性的談診用這次的經驗來告訴大家未來要如何在菸澀湖形成之後怎麼來因應包括事變之前如何來預防性的做很多的工作預防性的工作有包含到千春這種手段嗎\n如果真的有需要的話我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性這會減少很多人命財產的損失好 院長謝謝院長今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下最後一頁我想這一次的產業衝擊對台中特別影響特別大我們在最近新公佈的所謂的減班休息裡面就是無薪假的狀況裡面\n台中產業其實受影響衝擊最大目前來講全國目前這個減班休息的比例是最高的那因為減班休息不等於失業所以這一群人他現在等於犯無薪假他反而可能沒辦法受益於在這一次的這個條例裡面所以對於無薪假的部分政府有沒有更具體的做法或減班休息更具體的補償做事跟委員報告其實減班休息的勞工我們目前其實是有推出一個新資的差額補貼\n因為減班休息他還是要付最低工資好謝謝黃委員\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:05.046 --> 00:09.130\n好謝謝大衛主席江蘇院長我們現在先請行政院卓院長謝謝\n\n00:19.964 --> 00:47.865\n黃委員好院長好院長我們今天來討論這個預算的問題我想要先跟院長討論一個身為我們國家最高的行政首長在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法因為稍早之前有其他委員有稍微提到說前段時間就是院長好像比較排斥去普發現金1萬元那包含我們找到說在這個7月17號的時候院長講說行政院講說這個要舉債來普發現金那讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得說\n\n00:48.706 --> 01:15.714\n要舉債來補發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇如果真的是靠舉債發現金我個人當然覺得不太恰當但是按照我們今天這個的報告院長剛剛到主計長的報告裡面講到這一次的裁員裡面有5500億元實際上有4444億元是用過去的年度的這個稅低剩餘舉債的部分是1056億所以換句話說如果按照一開始的\n\n01:16.564 --> 01:42.870\n初心啊我們那時候是希望說為了應付這個美國關稅可能會導致民間的一些投資一些消費受到影響所以希望把這個稅地剩餘用來普發現金一萬元也就是那個普發現金一萬元在財政部的部分在現在的預算裡面也大約是2300億到2500億左右的這個這個這個金額這樣的規模我想對於這個稅地剩餘來講是足夠啦所以院長為什麼當初你要講說這個是要透過舉債來發錢因為\n\n01:45.638 --> 02:06.331\n報告委員當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算的規模是4100億我應該記得後來增加到5430億增加的部分就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4100億足夠的後來刪掉了台電的1000億又刪掉了其他的相關預算所以才變成說加上2350億的\n\n02:08.410 --> 02:16.378\n普發現金才變成今天這樣的一個4444億的稅基剩餘加上1056億的舉債院長我要給你表達一下立法的立場當初我們要講還是要講當後續現在這個這個韌性特別預算他已經是包山包海\n\n02:24.526 --> 02:41.348\n不單單只是普發現金還包含了剛剛等一下談到的國防支出還有很多的任性的預算所以才達到5500億的規模但是在普發現金1萬元的規模上面它只花了2300多億所以理論上對我們來講我就是因為看到有稅率升有4000多億我們才去提出說\n\n02:42.129 --> 03:10.476\n這些稅率剩餘應該用來普發現金讓民眾能夠共享這個經濟發展的成果順便也要去面對說因為這個美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致民間消費的問題所以我想這邊先跟郡長表達一下立場當初的4100億當中如果包含所有的2300多億的普發現金就已經會排擠其他我們認為目前國家當前所需要的後來我們增加了以後現在真的是舉債這個真的是舉債但是國人需要\n\n03:14.259 --> 03:30.898\n我們尊重這個結果但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多這值得思考但是話說回來國家現在是有舉債空間的我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已副院長你現在講到這個資源排擠資源這個排序的問題我想這一次的\n\n03:31.868 --> 03:58.564\n這個韌性特別預算裡面我也要問一下我們問一下院長跟問一下國防部因為這一次在這個總預算這個5500億裡面有1100多億當然是針對什麼的國防的支出要做韌性的工作但是今天要做韌性要做國防支出這部分當然民眾會支持立法院也會支持但是今天問題是說放在特別預算今天為了有這個錢是要放在特別預算因為比如說現在已經我們現在省的這個當下已經10月初了\n\n03:59.144 --> 04:22.577\n那等到送出立法院到你們執行最快可能十月底從十月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月的時間明年度的總預算裡面國防預算也照樣增加而且也佔了百分之二十左右那在這個前提之下為什麼這一次要把這個韌性放在特別預算裡面可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡可以嗎\n\n04:23.839 --> 04:51.830\n跟委員報告我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義的現在委員會質疑的就是說它的急迫性是如何那我今天再回顧其他委員的部分也說明就是說因為它可以分成兩大塊一塊就是說強化國土防衛能量一個是提升自動作業環境的設備這兩個措施裡面如果你用年度預算來看的話它都只能夠維持一個基本的相關的比如說彈藥庫的部分它都只能維持一個基本的\n\n04:52.310 --> 05:09.931\n那或者是這個訓場的部分他都有只能維持基本的因為你用作業維持費的話我們的年度的作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善的部分那所以我們的營業陸續會籌貨大量的這個新式的武器然後還有我們營業義務役一年級的義務役\n\n05:10.752 --> 05:24.884\n還有貨幣戰力提升我們必須要快速的將這些彈庫還有訓場快速的用這樣的特別預算來這樣用兩年的時間我們把它快速的整建完成之後我們才能夠足夠的因應我們需要的一個戰備的能力\n\n05:26.125 --> 05:45.399\n所以我們戰備存量也要快速的提升那資通的部分呢過去也是一樣都是一些例行性的裝備的部分的一個維持那我們現在要把整個資通的這個韌性然後的機動然後能夠有備援那我們就能夠快速的能夠籌貨在這兩年之內我想對我們整個\n\n05:46.119 --> 06:07.478\n自動的安全的環境以及機動的費用都很大的提升部長因為你剛剛講的這部分我們都我理解但我們也希望說這東西投下去是能夠做一個長期的支出長期的一個效用但是你看在你們送進來的總運算裡面在這個一千一百多億裡面經常門佔了一千億這個資本門六百多億我想在這比例上來講資本門的比例是不是稍微低了一點\n\n06:10.110 --> 06:25.909\n這對長期投資對這種今天我們今天提這個你要提任性大家可以支持但是今天我們想要說你在整個總預算的分配裡面經常我們的比例高於資本門那就感覺是一個比例對整個國家長期的財政穩定量是有影響的\n\n06:27.795 --> 06:46.847\n我想這個經常跟智本本的比例這個部分我現在沒有資料如果我再下去以後再進一步了解再跟委員來一個書面回顧但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了就是說你要快速的去強化那個韌性如果你用一般的這一個\n\n06:47.647 --> 07:06.234\n年度的預算會產生一個排擠的效果這是我們現在最擔心的一個部分所以如果能夠有支應特別預售我們就能夠快速的集中資源同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購所以可以擴大內需的產能產生產業附加的效益\n\n07:06.834 --> 07:30.644\n我想今天因為時間有限,我要跟部長跟院長提醒,接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查,我們今天談的特別預算裡面,不管是總預算,還是這一次這個任性的特別預算,在國防任性的支出,我想比例相比過去都相對比較高,很多的預算都是以這個為主,當然我們就擔心說會不會造成其他預算的排擠,\n\n07:31.204 --> 07:49.955\n當然造成預算排擠的前提是說如果這個錢投下去就像我剛剛所強調的這個錢投下去如果是作為資本門或是作為長期的投資作為後續能夠繼續使用那當然大家可以比較好支持但是如果你的經常門的比例過高好像錢花下去就不見了我想這對於這個國家財政的完整性是有一定程度的影響\n\n07:51.195 --> 08:17.426\n應該不是應該不會是這樣再請部長能夠跟委員好沒關係我這個書面書面這個資料上面有寫啦不過沒關係我們今天時間有限我們先不在這邊糾結我還是希望說把這個立場跟你們清楚的表態一下因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題就是說我們的國防支出佔比高達20%也比過去往年提高這麼多那到底錢花在什麼地方我想這是國人最關心的部分因為包含這一次的這個\n\n08:18.286 --> 08:38.555\n特別預算這次認證特別預算一開始我們期待說要去面對所謂美國關稅那如果說裡面的採購的項目可以在談判的過程裡面能夠降低所謂的關稅上的落差可以去彌平所謂貿易逆差的部分那當然可能可以作為談判條件但是因為你現在講說這個的角度是用來擴大內需那也可以\n\n08:39.095 --> 08:55.012\n擴大進去當然大家也可以支持就是說讓國內的產業讓國內就業人口能夠提升我想這個大家也不會太多意見但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分好不好剛剛比例的部分我再下去了解一下\n\n08:56.303 --> 09:19.676\n謝謝部長院長繼續討論原本這兩天新聞包含提到說晶片製造五五分當然我們的鄭麗君院長副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情但是可能提到說要把整個產業這個科學園區去美國來設廠或提供相關的協助稍早之前經濟部的臉書有提到說矽谷只有一個大家負責矽谷但是矽谷並沒有因此造成滔空所以我們把這個產業經驗\n\n09:21.198 --> 09:39.538\n複製到國外去也不會造成產業逃工剛剛有這樣的一個新聞這樣子的論述但是我們要問的是說今天大家擔心的我們講實在話我們希望世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗但是矽谷自己本身的產值它自己的這個技術它並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊\n\n09:40.279 --> 09:52.682\n是我們想抄他們是我們其他國家想學習他那今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈今天如果是把它移去美國第一個\n\n09:53.513 --> 10:19.065\n是不是硬體設備我們的人員培育還有我們的產能會受到影響我想這個是國人比較關心的問題其實如果是美國政府或是其他國家覺得說台灣的晶片產業很棒技術很好所以他們要在當地自己來弄讓我們提供一些技術上的協助那當然沒關係可見看起來不是啊其實看起來是你要整把整個產業如果去外移包含上下供應鏈我想這對於國內的產業上下游\n\n10:19.725 --> 10:42.199\n並不是只有台積電今天台積電之所以是台積電是因為它還有完整的供應鏈它才有今天的成果那如果你把這個東西帶去美國會不會對台灣的產業造成一定程度的影響的衝擊這是第一個部分第二個部分是說今天我們在討論這個預算我們很驚訝說已經十月了但是到底談判的結果內容好像還沒有完整的說法給我們因為一直在暫時的狀況\n\n10:44.022 --> 11:04.569\n前兩天美國說五五分那我們說沒有我們是要做其他的事情所以這對各個產業講真的企業界大家最希望的東西不是說談得多好或多爛是跟我們講說到底現在的情況是什麼產業他才能夠面對就是說我到底是接下來我要怎麼避險或者接下來我要不要\n\n11:05.089 --> 11:20.729\n把廠怎麼樣做一個處理這個是對勞工要有一個交代對這些企業主要有一個交代但是因為我覺得現在屬於一個不定的狀態所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來因為美國會一直提出各種要求在談判過程裡面一直有不同的要求那到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情\n\n11:21.454 --> 11:35.288\n包委員所謂的先進製程的部分我們的原則一定是這樣立足台灣才有佈局全球所以立足台灣最先進的技術一定是留在台灣開始發展所以在台積電現在1635億這個部分它可能會蓋六個廠\n\n11:40.353 --> 11:55.464\n但是未來在中科現在已經確定了就會蓋四座廠所以單單才那是因為中科的腹地不夠大否則可能還會再蓋所以量以量來講以最先進來講一定是留在台灣所以絕對不會有所謂的掏空台灣的問題\n\n11:56.204 --> 12:11.547\n好部長如果確定有你這句話另外一個就是剛剛提到其實應該這樣講沒關係因為時間有限我只要確定說這個產能它帶來的經濟效益它跟它中上下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響\n\n12:12.734 --> 12:36.867\n包委員就是說我們現在大概談判的時間我們沒有辦法確定但是我們幫助企業的部分已晚即起已經開始所以我們現在三個方案包括金融支持業或者是生技轉型或者是多元市場現在收案已經收到一千多件那我們會盡快來幫忙他只是說因為已晚即起畢竟資源有限所以希望預算趕快通過我們可以擴大那個層面來協助廠商\n\n12:38.888 --> 12:53.563\n好部長謝謝院長持續喔就是這個院長可以部長請回喔院長這一次的這個特別預算裡面也包含任性的部分那其中包含了這個整備防災的這個防救災緊急維生設備的建置好大概15億元這當然涉及到村裡的指揮系統\n\n12:54.284 --> 13:08.370\n那我想任性這一次花蓮的這個案子我想這個跟任性就是直接相關了這就是任性的問題嘛那我想問一下我們在這個資源配置裡面包含說今天上午我想這個李洪源前部長提到說看起來目前這個驗射壺的問題他可能後續還會有\n\n13:11.425 --> 13:29.448\n泥沙量還有很多目前就7000萬噸泥沙量排下來那還有2.5億噸的泥沙還在上面那可能後續考量到可能有緊急的狀況有可能有遷村或其他的狀況我不知道院長未來像這樣子的韌性的問題\n\n13:30.643 --> 13:41.824\n國土安全這也是真正的國土安全那這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理還是未來遇到新的風災來我們又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情\n\n13:43.880 --> 14:06.459\n這個馬太安溪的淹射壺已經從一個深的淹射壺變成一個比較淺疊性的淹射壺所以對帶來的衝擊條件就不一樣現在我們第一個希望持續的加強監測它整個水位的變化那對於它的整個淹射壺的旁邊泥沙的堆積的情況我們也會加以監測昨天你有看到我們那個直升機到現場去人員都下不去\n\n14:07.119 --> 14:30.183\n目前人員都下不去當然我們稱之為菸澀湖之外我們全國各地還有其他的菸澀湖地方我們認為要起一個全面性的談診用這次的經驗來告訴大家未來要如何在菸澀湖形成之後怎麼來因應包括事變之前如何來預防性的做很多的工作預防性的工作有包含到千春這種手段嗎\n\n14:30.823 --> 14:51.873\n如果真的有需要的話我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性這會減少很多人命財產的損失好院長謝謝院長今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下最後一頁我想這一次的產業衝擊對台中特別影響特別大我們在最近新公佈的所謂的減班休息裡面就是無薪假的狀況裡面\n\n14:53.462 --> 15:19.701\n台中產業其實受影響衝擊最大目前來講全國目前這個減班休息的比例是最高的那因為減班休息不等於失業所以這一群人他現在等於犯無薪假他反而可能沒辦法受益於在這一次的這個條例裡面所以對於無薪假的部分政府有沒有更具體的做法或減班休息更具體的補償做事跟委員報告其實減班休息的勞工我們目前其實是有推出一個新資的差額補貼\n\n15:21.782 --> 15:23.503\n因為減班休息他還是要付最低工資好謝謝黃委員\n\n","segments":[{"start":5.046,"end":9.13,"text":"好 謝謝大衛主席 江蘇院長我們現在先請行政院 卓院長謝謝"},{"start":19.964,"end":47.865,"text":"黃委員好院長好 院長我們今天來討論這個預算的問題我想要先跟院長討論一個身為我們國家最高的行政首長在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法因為稍早之前有其他委員有稍微提到說前段時間就是院長好像比較排斥去普發現金1萬元那包含我們找到說在這個7月17號的時候院長講說 行政院講說這個要舉債來普發現金那讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得說"},{"start":48.706,"end":75.714,"text":"要舉債來補發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇如果真的是靠舉債發現金我個人當然覺得不太恰當但是按照我們今天這個的報告院長剛剛到主計長的報告裡面講到這一次的裁員裡面有5500億元實際上有4444億元是用過去的年度的這個稅低剩餘舉債的部分是1056億所以換句話說如果按照一開始的"},{"start":76.564,"end":102.87,"text":"初心啊 我們那時候是希望說為了應付這個美國關稅可能會導致民間的一些投資一些消費受到影響所以希望把這個稅地剩餘用來普發現金一萬元也就是那個普發現金一萬元在財政部的部分在現在的預算裡面也大約是2300億到2500億左右的這個這個這個金額這樣的規模我想對於這個稅地剩餘來講是足夠啦所以院長為什麼當初你要講說這個是要透過舉債來發錢因為"},{"start":105.638,"end":126.331,"text":"報告委員當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算的規模是4100億我應該記得後來增加到5430億增加的部分就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4100億足夠的後來刪掉了台電的1000億又刪掉了其他的相關預算所以才變成說加上2350億的"},{"start":128.41,"end":136.378,"text":"普發現金才變成今天這樣的一個4444億的稅基剩餘加上1056億的舉債院長我要給你表達一下立法的立場當初我們要講還是要講當後續現在這個這個韌性特別預算他已經是包山包海"},{"start":144.526,"end":161.348,"text":"不單單只是普發現金還包含了剛剛等一下談到的國防支出還有很多的任性的預算所以才達到5500億的規模但是在普發現金1萬元的規模上面它只花了2300多億所以理論上對我們來講我就是因為看到有稅率升有4000多億我們才去提出說"},{"start":162.129,"end":190.476,"text":"這些稅率剩餘應該用來普發現金讓民眾能夠共享這個經濟發展的成果順便也要去面對說因為這個美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致民間消費的問題所以我想這邊先跟郡長表達一下立場當初的4100億當中如果包含所有的2300多億的普發現金就已經會排擠其他我們認為目前國家當前所需要的後來我們增加了以後現在真的是舉債這個真的是舉債但是國人需要"},{"start":194.259,"end":210.898,"text":"我們尊重這個結果但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多這值得思考但是話說回來國家現在是有舉債空間的我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已副院長你現在講到這個資源排擠資源這個排序的問題我想這一次的"},{"start":211.868,"end":238.564,"text":"這個韌性特別預算裡面我也要問一下我們問一下院長跟問一下國防部因為這一次在這個總預算這個5500億裡面有1100多億當然是針對什麼的國防的支出要做韌性的工作但是今天要做韌性要做國防支出這部分當然民眾會支持立法院也會支持但是今天問題是說放在特別預算今天為了有這個錢是要放在特別預算因為比如說現在已經我們現在省的這個當下已經10月初了"},{"start":239.144,"end":262.577,"text":"那等到送出立法院到你們執行最快可能十月底從十月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月的時間明年度的總預算裡面國防預算也照樣增加而且也佔了百分之二十左右那在這個前提之下為什麼這一次要把這個韌性放在特別預算裡面可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡可以嗎"},{"start":263.839,"end":291.83,"text":"跟委員報告我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義的現在委員會質疑的就是說它的急迫性是如何那我今天再回顧其他委員的部分也說明就是說因為它可以分成兩大塊一塊就是說強化國土防衛能量一個是提升自動作業環境的設備這兩個措施裡面如果你用年度預算來看的話它都只能夠維持一個基本的相關的比如說彈藥庫的部分它都只能維持一個基本的"},{"start":292.31,"end":309.931,"text":"那或者是這個訓場的部分他都有只能維持基本的因為你用作業維持費的話我們的年度的作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善的部分那所以我們的營業陸續會籌貨大量的這個新式的武器然後還有我們營業義務役一年級的義務役"},{"start":310.752,"end":324.884,"text":"還有貨幣戰力提升我們必須要快速的將這些彈庫還有訓場快速的用這樣的特別預算來這樣用兩年的時間我們把它快速的整建完成之後我們才能夠足夠的因應我們需要的一個戰備的能力"},{"start":326.125,"end":345.399,"text":"所以我們戰備存量也要快速的提升那資通的部分呢過去也是一樣都是一些例行性的裝備的部分的一個維持那我們現在要把整個資通的這個韌性然後的機動然後能夠有備援那我們就能夠快速的能夠籌貨在這兩年之內我想對我們整個"},{"start":346.119,"end":367.478,"text":"自動的安全的環境以及機動的費用都很大的提升部長因為你剛剛講的這部分我們都我理解但我們也希望說這東西投下去是能夠做一個長期的支出長期的一個效用但是你看在你們送進來的總運算裡面在這個一千一百多億裡面經常門佔了一千億這個資本門六百多億我想在這比例上來講資本門的比例是不是稍微低了一點"},{"start":370.11,"end":385.909,"text":"這對長期投資對這種今天我們今天提這個你要提任性大家可以支持但是今天我們想要說你在整個總預算的分配裡面經常我們的比例高於資本門那就感覺是一個比例對整個國家長期的財政穩定量是有影響的"},{"start":387.795,"end":406.847,"text":"我想這個經常跟智本本的比例這個部分我現在沒有資料如果我再下去以後再進一步了解再跟委員來一個書面回顧但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了就是說你要快速的去強化那個韌性如果你用一般的這一個"},{"start":407.647,"end":426.234,"text":"年度的預算會產生一個排擠的效果這是我們現在最擔心的一個部分所以如果能夠有支應特別預售我們就能夠快速的集中資源同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購所以可以擴大內需的產能產生產業附加的效益"},{"start":426.834,"end":450.644,"text":"我想今天因為時間有限,我要跟部長跟院長提醒,接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查,我們今天談的特別預算裡面,不管是總預算,還是這一次這個任性的特別預算,在國防任性的支出,我想比例相比過去都相對比較高,很多的預算都是以這個為主,當然我們就擔心說會不會造成其他預算的排擠,"},{"start":451.204,"end":469.955,"text":"當然造成預算排擠的前提是說如果這個錢投下去就像我剛剛所強調的這個錢投下去如果是作為資本門或是作為長期的投資作為後續能夠繼續使用那當然大家可以比較好支持但是如果你的經常門的比例過高好像錢花下去就不見了我想這對於這個國家財政的完整性是有一定程度的影響"},{"start":471.195,"end":497.426,"text":"應該不是 應該不會是這樣再請部長能夠跟委員好 沒關係我這個書面書面這個資料上面有寫啦不過沒關係我們今天時間有限我們先不在這邊糾結我還是希望說把這個立場跟你們清楚的表態一下因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題就是說我們的國防支出佔比高達20%也比過去往年提高這麼多那到底錢花在什麼地方我想這是國人最關心的部分因為包含這一次的這個"},{"start":498.286,"end":518.555,"text":"特別預算 這次認證特別預算一開始我們期待說要去面對所謂美國關稅那如果說裡面的採購的項目可以在談判的過程裡面能夠降低所謂的關稅上的落差可以去彌平所謂貿易逆差的部分那當然可能可以作為談判條件但是因為你現在講說這個的角度是用來擴大內需那也可以"},{"start":519.095,"end":535.012,"text":"擴大進去當然大家也可以支持就是說讓國內的產業讓國內就業人口能夠提升我想這個大家也不會太多意見但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分好不好剛剛比例的部分我再下去了解一下"},{"start":536.303,"end":559.676,"text":"謝謝部長 院長繼續討論原本這兩天新聞包含提到說晶片製造五五分當然我們的鄭麗君院長副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情但是可能提到說要把整個產業這個科學園區去美國來設廠或提供相關的協助稍早之前經濟部的臉書有提到說矽谷只有一個大家負責矽谷但是矽谷並沒有因此造成滔空所以我們把這個產業經驗"},{"start":561.198,"end":579.538,"text":"複製到國外去也不會造成產業逃工剛剛有這樣的一個新聞這樣子的論述但是我們要問的是說今天大家擔心的我們講實在話我們希望世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗但是矽谷自己本身的產值它自己的這個技術它並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊"},{"start":580.279,"end":592.682,"text":"是我們想抄他們是我們其他國家想學習他那今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈今天如果是把它移去美國第一個"},{"start":593.513,"end":619.065,"text":"是不是硬體設備 我們的人員培育還有我們的產能會受到影響我想這個是國人比較關心的問題其實如果是美國政府或是其他國家覺得說台灣的晶片產業很棒 技術很好所以他們要在當地自己來弄讓我們提供一些技術上的協助那當然沒關係 可見看起來不是啊其實看起來是你要整把整個產業如果去外移 包含上下供應鏈我想這對於國內的產業 上下游"},{"start":619.725,"end":642.199,"text":"並不是只有台積電今天台積電之所以是台積電是因為它還有完整的供應鏈它才有今天的成果那如果你把這個東西帶去美國會不會對台灣的產業造成一定程度的影響的衝擊這是第一個部分第二個部分是說今天我們在討論這個預算我們很驚訝說已經十月了但是到底談判的結果內容好像還沒有完整的說法給我們因為一直在暫時的狀況"},{"start":644.022,"end":664.569,"text":"前兩天美國說五五分那我們說沒有我們是要做其他的事情所以這對各個產業講真的企業界大家最希望的東西不是說談得多好或多爛是跟我們講說到底現在的情況是什麼產業他才能夠面對就是說我到底是接下來我要怎麼避險或者接下來我要不要"},{"start":665.089,"end":680.729,"text":"把廠怎麼樣做一個處理這個是對勞工要有一個交代對這些企業主要有一個交代但是因為我覺得現在屬於一個不定的狀態所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來因為美國會一直提出各種要求在談判過程裡面一直有不同的要求那到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情"},{"start":681.454,"end":695.288,"text":"包委員所謂的先進製程的部分我們的原則一定是這樣立足台灣才有佈局全球所以立足台灣最先進的技術一定是留在台灣開始發展所以在台積電現在1635億這個部分它可能會蓋六個廠"},{"start":700.353,"end":715.464,"text":"但是未來在中科現在已經確定了就會蓋四座廠所以單單才那是因為中科的腹地不夠大否則可能還會再蓋所以量以量來講以最先進來講一定是留在台灣所以絕對不會有所謂的掏空台灣的問題"},{"start":716.204,"end":731.547,"text":"好 部長如果確定有你這句話另外一個就是剛剛提到其實應該這樣講沒關係 因為時間有限我只要確定說這個產能它帶來的經濟效益它跟它中上下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響"},{"start":732.734,"end":756.867,"text":"包委員就是說我們現在大概談判的時間我們沒有辦法確定但是我們幫助企業的部分已晚即起已經開始所以我們現在三個方案包括金融支持業或者是生技轉型或者是多元市場現在收案已經收到一千多件那我們會盡快來幫忙他只是說因為已晚即起畢竟資源有限所以希望預算趕快通過我們可以擴大那個層面來協助廠商"},{"start":758.888,"end":773.563,"text":"好部長謝謝院長持續喔就是這個院長可以部長請回喔院長這一次的這個特別預算裡面也包含任性的部分那其中包含了這個整備防災的這個防救災緊急維生設備的建置好大概15億元這當然涉及到村裡的指揮系統"},{"start":774.284,"end":788.37,"text":"那我想任性這一次花蓮的這個案子我想這個跟任性就是直接相關了這就是任性的問題嘛那我想問一下我們在這個資源配置裡面包含說今天上午我想這個李洪源前部長提到說看起來目前這個驗射壺的問題他可能後續還會有"},{"start":791.425,"end":809.448,"text":"泥沙量還有很多 目前就7000萬噸泥沙量排下來那還有2.5億噸的泥沙還在上面那可能後續考量到可能有緊急的狀況有可能有遷村或其他的狀況我不知道院長未來像這樣子的韌性的問題"},{"start":810.643,"end":821.824,"text":"國土安全這也是真正的國土安全那這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理還是未來遇到新的風災來我們又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情"},{"start":823.88,"end":846.459,"text":"這個馬太安溪的淹射壺已經從一個深的淹射壺變成一個比較淺疊性的淹射壺所以對帶來的衝擊條件就不一樣現在我們第一個希望持續的加強監測它整個水位的變化那對於它的整個淹射壺的旁邊泥沙的堆積的情況我們也會加以監測昨天你有看到我們那個直升機到現場去人員都下不去"},{"start":847.119,"end":870.183,"text":"目前人員都下不去當然我們稱之為菸澀湖之外我們全國各地還有其他的菸澀湖地方我們認為要起一個全面性的談診用這次的經驗來告訴大家未來要如何在菸澀湖形成之後怎麼來因應包括事變之前如何來預防性的做很多的工作預防性的工作有包含到千春這種手段嗎"},{"start":870.823,"end":891.873,"text":"如果真的有需要的話我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性這會減少很多人命財產的損失好 院長謝謝院長今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下最後一頁我想這一次的產業衝擊對台中特別影響特別大我們在最近新公佈的所謂的減班休息裡面就是無薪假的狀況裡面"},{"start":893.462,"end":919.701,"text":"台中產業其實受影響衝擊最大目前來講全國目前這個減班休息的比例是最高的那因為減班休息不等於失業所以這一群人他現在等於犯無薪假他反而可能沒辦法受益於在這一次的這個條例裡面所以對於無薪假的部分政府有沒有更具體的做法或減班休息更具體的補償做事跟委員報告其實減班休息的勞工我們目前其實是有推出一個新資的差額補貼"},{"start":921.782,"end":923.503,"text":"因為減班休息他還是要付最低工資好謝謝黃委員"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":396,"blocks":[["黃委員健豪：（15時18分）謝謝大會主席江副院長。我們現在先請行政院卓院長，謝謝。"],["主席：請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：黃委員好。"],["黃委員健豪：院長好。院長，我們今天來討論這個預算的問題，我想要先跟院長討論身為我們國家最高的行政首長，在對這種預算上的一些說法跟看法，因為稍早之前，其他委員有稍微提到前段時間院長好像比較排斥普發現金1萬元，包含我們也找到在7月17日的時候，院長、行政院講這要舉債來普發現金，讓很多的輿論或是一些民眾覺得要舉債來普發現金是不是不太恰當的一個選擇。如果真的是靠舉債發現金，我個人當然也覺得不太恰當。但是按照今天這個報告，可以看到主計長的報告講到這一次的財源裡面有5,500億元，實際上有4,444億元是用過去年度的歲計賸餘，舉債的部分是1,056億，所以換句話說，如果按照一開始的初心，我們那時候是為了應付美國關稅可能導致民間的一些投資、消費受到影響，所以希望把歲計賸餘用來普發現金1萬元，也就是在財政部現在的預算裡面，普發現金大約是2,300億到2,500億左右的金額，這樣的規模，我想對於歲計賸餘來講是足夠的，那院長為什麼當初要講說這個要透過舉債來發錢？"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，當時我們提出的特別條例跟特別預算規模是4,100億，這委員應該記得，後來增加到5,430億，增加的部分，就是我們原來認為不需要舉債的4,100億是足夠的，後來刪掉了台電的1,000億，又刪掉了其他相關預算，加上2,350億的普發現金，才變成今天這樣一個4,444億的歲計賸餘加上1,056億的舉債。"],["黃委員健豪：院長，我要跟你表達一下立法院的立場，當初我們講的後續的這個韌性特別預算，已經是包山包海，不單單只是普發現金，還包含等一下要談到的國防支出，還有很多的韌性預算，所以才達到5,500億的規模，但是在普發現金1萬元的這個規模上，它只花了兩千三百多億，對我們來講，理論上，因為我們看到歲計賸餘有四千多億，所以才提出這些歲計賸餘應該用來普發現金，讓民眾共享經濟發展成果，順便也能面對因為美國高關稅後續的影響可能導致的民間消費問題，在這邊我想先跟院長表達一下立場。"],["卓院長榮泰：當初的4,100億當中，如果包含兩千三百多億的普發現金，就一定會排擠其他我們認為國家當前所需要的，後來我們增加預算以後，現在真的是舉債，這個真的是舉債，但是國人需要，而且大院的表決也是這樣……"],["黃委員健豪：我想是實際上有這個需要。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們尊重這個結果，但是我是認為舉債讓國家變成債務增多，這值得思考，不過話說回來，國家現在是有舉債空間，我們只是在財政紀律上希望嚴守而已。"],["黃委員健豪：好，院長，既然你講到資源排擠、資源排序的問題，針對這一次的韌性特別預算，我也要問一下院長和國防部。這一次特別預算5,500億裡面，有一千一百多億是針對所謂的國防支出在做韌性工作，當然，要做國防韌性支出，民眾一定會支持，立法院也會支持，但問題是，今天這個錢放在特別預算裡，我們現在審查的當下已經10月初了，等到送出立法院到你們執行，最快可能10月底，從10月底到明年度預算開始大概剩兩個月時間，而明年度的總預算裡面，國防預算也照樣增加，占了20%左右，在這樣的前提之下，為什麼這一次要把國防韌性預算放在特別預算裡面？可以跟民眾說明一下它的必要性跟急迫性在哪裡嗎？"],["顧部長立雄：跟委員報告，我想必要性的部分應該是沒有疑義，現在委員會質疑的是它的急迫性如何？我今天在回復其他委員的說明是它可以分成兩大塊，一塊是強化國土防衛能量，一塊是提升資通作業環境及設備，這兩個措施如果用年度預算來看，比如彈藥庫的部分，只能維持一個基本作業；或者是訓場部分，都只能維持基本作業，因為用作業維持費的話，我們的年度作業維持費大部分都在做裝備的妥善部分，所以為了因應陸續要籌獲大量的新式武器、因應一年期義務役，還有後備戰力提升，我們必須用這樣的特別預算，快速的用兩年時間，將這些彈庫還有訓場快速整建完成，之後才能足夠的因應我們需要的戰備能力，所以我們的戰備存量也要快速地提升。資通的部分，過去也是一樣，都是一些例行性的裝備部分的維持，現在我們要把整個資通韌性、機動能夠有備援，讓我們能夠在這兩年之內快速地籌獲，我想這對我們整個資通安全的環境以及機動備援都有很大的提升。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，你剛剛講的這部分我都理解，但我們也希望這部分投下去，能夠有一個長期的支出、長期的效用，但是你看在你們送進來的這一千一百多億特別預算裡面，經常門占了1,000億，資本門六百多億，在比例上來講，資本門的比例似乎稍微低了一點，這對於長期投資，對於這種……今天你要提韌性，大家都可以支持，但是你們在整個總預算的分配上，經常門的比例高於資本門，這個比例感覺對整個國家長期的財政穩定是有影響的。"],["顧部長立雄：委員，經常門跟資本門的比例這個部分，我手上現在沒有資料，我下去以後再進一步了解，再給委員一個書面回復。"],["黃委員健豪：好。"],["顧部長立雄：但是重要的剛剛我已經講過了，就是你要快速地去強化韌性，如果你用一般的年度預算，會產生一個排擠的效果，這是我們現在最擔心的部分，所以如果能夠支應這個特別預算的話，我們就能夠快速地集中資源。同時因為我們這個部分也全部都是國內採購，所以可以擴大內需的產能，產生產業互加的效益。"],["黃委員健豪：好，我想今天因為時間有限，我還是要跟部長、院長提醒，接下來馬上要進入總預算的審查，我們今天談的特別預算裡面，不管是總預算，還是這一次韌性的特別預算，在國防韌性的支出上，我想比例跟過去來比都相對比較高，很多的預算都是以這個為主，當然我們就擔心會不會造成其他預算的排擠。要造成預算排擠的前提是說，如果這個錢投下去，就像我剛剛所強調的，這個錢投下去，如果是作為資本門，或是作為長期的投資，作為後續能夠繼續使用的，那當然大家可以比較好去支持，但是如果你的經常門比例過高，好像錢花下去就不見了，我想這對於國家財政的完整性有一定程度的影響……"],["顧部長立雄：應該不是。"],["卓院長榮泰：再請部長能夠跟委員……"],["黃委員健豪：好，沒關係。"],["卓院長榮泰：這個數據能夠把它說明清楚。"],["黃委員健豪：書面資料上面有寫啦！不過沒關係，今天時間有限，我們先不在這邊糾結，我還是希望把這個立場跟你們清楚地表態一下，因為後續我想總預算審查還是會遇到這樣的問題。我們的國防支出占比高達百分之二十，也比過去往年提高這麼多，到底錢花在什麼地方，我想這是國人最關心的部分。因為包含這一次的韌性特別預算，一開始我們期待要去面對所謂的美國關稅，如果裡面的採購項目可以在談判的過程裡面降低所謂關稅上的落差，可以去弭平所謂貿易逆差的部分，那當然可能可以作為談判的條件，但是因為你現在說這個的角度是用來擴大內需，那也可以，擴大內需當然大家也可以支持，讓國內的產業、讓國內的就業人口能夠提升，我想這個大家也不會有太多意見，但是我覺得在比例的分配上會不會排擠到其他預算？我想這是現在國人比較擔心的部分，好不好？"],["顧部長立雄：剛剛比例的部分，我再下去了解一下。"],["黃委員健豪：好，謝謝、謝謝部長。院長，我繼續討論，這兩天的新聞提到晶片製造五五分，當然我們的鄭麗君副院長已經否認說不會做這樣的事情，但是可能提到要把整個產業、科學園區去美國設廠或提供相關的協助。稍早之前，經濟部的臉書又提到說矽谷只有一個，大家複製矽谷，但是矽谷並沒有因此造成掏空，所以我們把產業經驗複製到國外去，也不會造成產業掏空，剛剛有這樣子的論述。但是我要問的是說，今天大家擔心的，我們講實在話，世界各國想要複製矽谷的經驗，但是矽谷自己本身的產值，他自己的技術，他並沒有把這個東西移到國外去啊！是我們想抄他們，是其他國家想學習他。今天科學園區這樣子的產業鏈，今天台積電這樣子的晶片供應鏈，如果是把它移去美國，第一個，是不是硬體設備、我們的人員培育，還有我們的產能會受到影響？我想這個是國人比較關心的問題。","今天如果美國政府或是其他國家覺得臺灣的晶片產業很棒、技術很好，所以他們要在當地自己來弄，我們提供一些技術上的協助當然沒關係，可是今天看起來不是啊！今天看起來是你要讓整個產業外移，包含上下供應鏈，我想這對於國內的產業上下游，並不是只有台積電，今天台積電之所以是台積電，是因為它還有完整的供應鏈，才有今天的成果，如果你把這個東西帶去美國，會不會對臺灣的產業造成一定程度的影響及衝擊？這是第一個部分。","第二個部分，其實我們在討論這個預算，我很驚訝的是已經10月了，但是到底談判的結果或內容為何，好像還沒有完整的說法給我們，因為一直在暫時的狀況，前兩天美國說五五分，我們說沒有，我們是要做其他的事情，所以這對各個產業……我講真的，企業界大家最希望的東西不是談得多好或多爛，而是跟我們說到底現在的情況是什麼，產業才能夠面對嘛！就是到底接下來要怎麼避險，或是接下來要不要把廠怎麼樣做一個處理，這個是對勞工要有一個交代，對這些企業主要有一個交代，但是因為我覺得現在處於一個不定的狀態，所以這個部分到底什麼時候能夠定下來？因為美國在談判的過程裡面一直提出不同的要求，到底我們要怎麼面對這個事情？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，所謂先進製程的部分，我們的原則一定是這樣，立足臺灣才能布局全球，因為立足臺灣，所以最先進的技術一定是留在臺灣發展的。台積電現在要投資1,635億這個部分，它可能會蓋6個廠，但是現在已經確定了，未來在中科就會蓋4座廠，所以單單才……那是因為中科的腹地不夠大，否則可能還會再蓋。所以以量來講、以最先進的來講，一定是留在臺灣，絕對不會有所謂掏空臺灣的問題。"],["黃委員健豪：好，部長，如果確定的話，有你這句話……"],["龔部長明鑫：另外一個就是剛剛提到……"],["黃委員健豪：沒關係，因為時間有限，其實應該這樣講，我只是要確定這個產能所帶來的經濟效益，它跟它中、上、下游的供應鏈會不會因為談判的過程受到影響？"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我們現在對於談判的時間沒有辦法確定，但是我們在幫助企業部分的移緩濟急已經開始了。我們現在有3個方案，包括金融支持、生技轉型或者是多元市場，現在收案已經收到一千多件，我們會儘快來幫忙，只是要移緩濟急畢竟資源有限，所以希望預算趕快通過，我們就可以擴大層面協助廠商。"],["黃委員健豪：部長，謝謝，請回。院長，持續就教這一次的特別預算，裡面包含了韌性的部分，也包含了整備防救災緊急維生設備的建置，大概有15億元，這當然會涉及到村里的指揮系統。有關韌性，這一次花蓮的這個案子，我想這跟韌性就是直接相關，這就是韌性的問題。","我想問一下，在資源配置裡面，包含今天上午，李鴻源前部長提到，看起來目前這個堰塞湖的問題後續可能還會有泥沙量……目前只有7,000萬噸的泥沙量排下來，但還有2.5億噸的泥沙在上面，後續考量到可能會有緊急的狀況，有可能要遷村或有其他的狀況，不知道院長未來對於這種韌性的問題……這也是真正的國土安全，這個部分在這個特別預算裡面有沒有要處理？還是未來遇到新的風災，又要再提新的其他特別預算來解決這個事情？"],["卓院長榮泰：馬太鞍堰塞湖已經從一個深的堰塞湖，變成一個比較淺碟性的堰塞湖，所以帶來的衝擊、條件就不一樣。現在我們第一個是希望持續加強監測整個水位的變化，對於整個堰塞湖旁邊泥沙堆積的情況，我們也會加以監測。昨天你也有看到我們的直升機有到現場去，目前人員都下不去。當然，除了這個堰塞湖之外，全國各地還有其他的堰塞湖地方，我們認為要起一個全面性的盤整，用這次的經驗來告訴大家，未來要如何在堰塞湖形成之後去因應，包括事件發生之前要如何做很多預防性的工作。"],["黃委員健豪：預防性的工作有包含遷村這種手段嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：如果真的有需要的話，我覺得我們應該不排除任何的可能性，這會減少很多人命、財產的損失。"],["黃委員健豪：謝謝院長。在今天最後幾秒鐘我要問一下，院長，這一次的產業衝擊對臺中的影響特別大，我在最近新公布所謂的減班休息裡面，其實就是在無薪假的狀況裡面，臺中的產業其實受到的影響、衝擊最大，目前來講，臺中在全國目前有減班休息的比例是最高的。因為減班休息不等於失業，所以這一群人現在等於是在放無薪假，他反而可能無法在這一次的條例裡面受益。對於無薪假的部分，政府有沒有更具體的作法或是對減班休息有更具體的補償措施？"],["卓院長榮泰：勞動部有一些周延的措施。"],["洪部長申翰：跟委員報告，我們對於減班休息的勞工，目前其實是有推出薪資的差額補貼。就算是減班休息，還是要付最低工資，他原本的薪資跟最低工資之間的差額，我們會給予七成的補貼，也包括我們給予參訓的津貼，一個小時是190元，明年開始一個小時就是196元，這部分其實跟薪資的差額補貼可以併領，最高可以領到他原本的薪資，這是我們對他經濟上的支持。"],["黃委員健豪：好，我們再聊，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：請委員支持特別預算，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝黃委員，謝謝卓院長。","下一位請邱志偉委員質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":214,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","張啓楷","吳思瑤","楊瓊瓔","林憶君","莊瑞雄","葉元之","王定宇","翁曉玲","陳亭妃","廖先翔","鍾佳濱","黃健豪","邱志偉","林德福","林岱樺","賴士葆","陳冠廷","洪孟楷","李坤城","徐欣瑩","賴瑞隆","謝衣鳯"],"page_start":98,"meetingDate":["2025-10-03"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00007","1147801_00008"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"行政院院長、主計長、財政部部長、經濟部部長及相關部會首長列席報告「中央政府因應國際情\n勢強化經濟社會及民生國安韌性特別預算案」編製經過並備質詢─詢答完畢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00013"}}}