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我現在是其實我把它整理出來的那我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分等一下我要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的我現在再講講看\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"隨\"}, {\"word\": \"時\"}, {\"word\": \"都\", \"start\": 119.237, \"end\": 119.417, \"score\": 0.947}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 119.417, \"end\": 119.577, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"像\", \"start\": 119.577, \"end\": 119.737, \"score\": 0.783}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 119.737, \"end\": 120.018, \"score\": 0.843}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 120.018, \"end\": 120.298, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"手\", \"start\": 120.298, \"end\": 120.458, \"score\": 0.975}, {\"word\": \"上\", \"start\": 120.458, \"end\": 120.658, \"score\": 0.979}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 120.658, \"end\": 121.098, \"score\": 0.991}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 121.098, \"end\": 121.178, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 121.178, \"end\": 122.239, \"score\": 0.868}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"5\"}, {\"word\": \".\"}, {\"word\": \"2\"}, {\"word\": \"6\"}, {\"word\": \"今\", 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\"start\": 1262.975, \"end\": 1263.235, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1263.235, \"end\": 1263.335, \"score\": 0.798}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1263.335, \"end\": 1263.695, \"score\": 0.92}, {\"word\": \"9\"}, {\"word\": \"月\", \"start\": 1263.695, \"end\": 1264.315, \"score\": 0.876}, {\"word\": \"1\"}, {\"word\": \"7\"}, {\"word\": \"號\"}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 1264.315, \"end\": 1264.516, \"score\": 0.883}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"部\", \"start\": 1264.516, \"end\": 1264.696, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"分\", \"start\": 1264.696, \"end\": 1264.876, \"score\": 0.994}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1264.876, \"end\": 1264.896, \"score\": 0.054}]}, {\"start\": 1265.756, \"end\": 1283.285, \"text\": \"這種所謂這種的缺電的吃緊的用電吃緊就是呈現出來的所以特別希望跟他講左院長尤其在823的公投決定之後希望說你過去的1.0的政策的通通都是在修修補補東補一個西補一個那希望是說\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"所\", \"start\": 1265.756, \"end\": 1266.917, \"score\": 0.935}, {\"word\": \"謂\"}, {\"word\": \"這\"}, {\"word\": \"種\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1266.917, \"end\": 1267.417, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"缺\", \"start\": 1267.417, \"end\": 1267.937, \"score\": 0.917}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1267.937, \"end\": 1268.137, \"score\": 0.996}, {\"word\": \"吃\", \"start\": 1268.137, \"end\": 1268.478, \"score\": 0.882}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 1268.478, \"end\": 1268.598, \"score\": 0.998}, {\"word\": \"用\", \"start\": 1268.598, \"end\": 1268.938, \"score\": 0.927}, {\"word\": \"電\"}, {\"word\": \"吃\", \"start\": 1268.938, \"end\": 1269.358, \"score\": 0.857}, {\"word\": \"緊\"}, {\"word\": \"就\", \"start\": 1269.358, \"end\": 1269.438, \"score\": 0.76}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 1269.438, \"end\": 1269.538, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"呈\", \"start\": 1269.538, \"end\": 1269.798, \"score\": 0.846}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"出\", \"start\": 1269.798, \"end\": 1270.078, \"score\": 0.923}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, 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\"start\": 1833.736, \"end\": 1833.816, \"score\": 0.75}, {\"word\": \"員\"}, {\"word\": \"執\"}, {\"word\": \"行\", \"start\": 1833.816, \"end\": 1833.837, \"score\": 0.0}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:07,369 --> 00:00:11,333\n有請左院長麻煩請左院長備詢劉元豪好\n\n2\n00:00:27,657 --> 00:00:45,343\n今天呢來跟您討論一下台電的資訊用電的資訊那我們看到的是在您看過院長想請問一下您看過在台電的官網的用電資訊嗎我幾乎天天都會看今天的備轉容量率多少\n\n3\n00:00:46,045 --> 00:01:03,858\n非常好我們現在來看一下第一個看到這個是一天的用電資訊只有兩天內的曲線第二我們來看一下全天的各能源的用電的曲線只有當天有這個圖表這部分包括的是台電他最近台電他最不敢\n\n4\n00:01:05,039 --> 00:01:33,074\n貼的24小時的用電的曲線圖因為再生能源在只有24小時的量大概就只有10%而已我們再繼續往下看包括的是備轉的容量率這部分它時間比較多了有112到113年的3年曲線但是瞬間的部分也只能查到1.5個月前的部分的數據卻沒有每天的使用的高峰跟備轉容量率每天的低峰的數據\n\n5\n00:01:34,435 --> 00:01:58,277\n那部分我們看到這裡第四項我們看到是各機組當中的影響倍轉容量率的部分他只有每天的每小時的瞬間那這部分呢經濟部或者是台電他最喜歡是在中午的時候把資料PO出來因為那時候可以看到再生能源非常多的這個發電量就是太陽能源這邊我們再繼續往下看的時候我剛才\n\n6\n00:01:59,237 --> 00:02:21,887\n隨時都有像我現在手上的就是15.26今天的備轉容量率他沒有在中午才做早上在做晚上我現在沒有做包括112年到114年我們現在把我剛剛講的部分這部分呈現出來沒有錯我現在是其實我把它整理出來的那我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分等一下我要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的我現在再講講看\n\n7\n00:02:23,348 --> 00:02:38,207\n在這裡我們看到是把剛才我四項的資料都把它彙整起來的時候就得到這樣的資訊就是說台電的這個電網的官網的資訊揭露它其實是並就是兩天的當日的三年內的部分是一個\n\n8\n00:02:39,308 --> 00:03:04,026\n備轉容量率的部分像你剛才說的有到這個情況還有備轉的過去的用電資料是記錄到上個月例如說我今天用的我今天10月7號我實際上看到歷史性的記錄的完整的部分只看到今年的8月31號這部分就想要請問的這樣的一個台電官網資訊街道是否符合一個保障民眾基本知情權呢\n\n9\n00:03:05,107 --> 00:03:24,859\n請問院長他每天都有公佈啊你每天都有公佈歷史資料我記得是日間封是有好沒關係因為你現在講片段資料我剛才呈現出來是不夠完整的這邊我們繼續往下看現在我們現在講的是一個9月16號到9月17、18號連續三天的用電封負載這部分你現在已經絕對查不到啦\n\n10\n00:03:30,262 --> 00:03:43,076\n那我們看到的是在9月16、17、18三天喔這個資訊你現在絕對是查不到在官網當中絕對現在是查不到那請問一下院長你知道9月17號的夜間尖峰的備轉容量率是多少嗎\n\n11\n00:03:44,569 --> 00:03:59,616\n9月17號你應該不知道那當然我要去查一下現在不可能知道部長知道嗎郭部長你知道嗎好我現在跟你講我現在呈現出來就是三天的時候呢黃色是供電吃緊綠色是充電17號是充綠的\n\n12\n00:04:01,837 --> 00:04:14,591\n18號呢是吃緊的三天之內卻有一天的話是是一個充裕的情況那被轉容量率那天平常都是那三天的八十八十十點六一到六點一一你可以看到這實際上面的數據是這樣子好\n\n13\n00:04:17,642 --> 00:04:45,474\n我們繼續往下看這邊我們就想到這邊這有一個情況是因為三天的時間當中兩天是用電吃緊黃色一天是綠色是用電的一個是充裕的那我們就想問一下請問在這個情況之下你知道當天的被轉容量率在那天的用電情況是怎麼樣的嗎當天隨時隨地都有那個數據會出來你如果看手機也會顯現\n\n14\n00:04:47,199 --> 00:05:04,586\n沒有那我們現在因為要查資料我們要做論證需求這是一般人要了解用電的需求狀況繼續往下看這一張圖看得很清楚這一張圖裡面是9月17號緊急跟備用機組的使用狀況大家可以看到是\n\n15\n00:05:05,862 --> 00:05:06,603\n因為那時候南部的興達機組出了問題\n\n16\n00:05:28,828 --> 00:05:54,560\n所以備用的機組就要啟動啊那這樣好玩喔如果沒有問題都不用啟動部長你現在看看喔9月9號發生新打對不對那可是9月16號的時候是吃緊的可是9月17號確實充裕的喔9月18號又是吃緊的可是9月17號就特別我們才想要來看看因為那時候林口的機組出了問題\n\n17\n00:05:56,294 --> 00:06:17,152\n對沒錯但是更重要的是林口機組出去的問題可是核二核三廠的清油機組卻全開你知道嗎這邊全開我現在只讓大家知道這個全開核電廠裡面的清油機組也全開了這是非常緊急需要的時候才開的因為林口電廠出了問題\n\n18\n00:06:19,494 --> 00:06:43,120\n供電正常我們就把它提升可是為什麼9月9月開始9月16、18確實吃緊的情況9月17確實出現到一個充裕的情況這是我們繼續再往下看9月9號的時候是興達出了問題那中間我們有些備用基礎是沒有問題但是我們現在看看興達的部分就是我現在想說的興達這邊您說的是興達他有\n\n19\n00:06:46,701 --> 00:07:11,042\n我們再看看興達的燃煤電廠喔3號4號這個是備用機組對不對可是你看看他發電的時間什麼時候開始的臨時凌晨就開始啦所以請問發電機組興達電廠的燃煤機組是備用機組他什麼時候才可以開啊\n\n20\n00:07:11,974 --> 00:07:28,231\n就去備用的時候電力假如說我們要供電正常對他都需要的是在需要在百分之八以下對不對可是你的燈是綠色的喔不要忘記喔你當天的燈是綠色的喔你的綠色你為什麼需要開呢如果是百分之八的話為什麼需要開勒\n\n21\n00:07:29,392 --> 00:07:57,383\n這就是大問題啊我們在另外看到是部長這是事實我就是要出現出來你不是講到實情我們繼續往下看燃煤機組跟天然氣有點不太一樣燃煤可能它的熱氣是比較強所以這邊是沒有錯燃煤機組就是需要燃煤機組就是需要在備轉容量率8的時候才會開嘛對不對可是你是綠燈喔10%以上為什麼要開呢這就是有問題的地方我們繼續往下看\n\n22\n00:07:58,463 --> 00:08:13,469\n9月17號你剛才有說的有些其他機組這部分那我們再生能源不是很棒嗎這部分再生能源有出現狀況嗎再說一次再生能源的基礎再生能源就是如果是太陽能光電就是白天\n\n23\n00:08:15,737 --> 00:08:40,564\n對非常好我們繼續往下看可是整個部分就跟大家講了所有包括興達電廠的1234號緊急備用跟備用全部開了還包括的是核二廠核三廠的緊急的清油備用基礎也全部開了才得到綠色的這個結果那表示什麼就是缺電啊可是缺電你們去還是成立一個綠色的燈飾站\n\n24\n00:08:43,728 --> 00:08:49,653\n領口的領部基礎跟行囊的基礎都是故障的情況下整個特殊的狀況它是一個特殊狀況包圍紅那段時間都供電正常\n\n25\n00:08:59,921 --> 00:09:20,718\n沒有任何缺電的問題事實上面我用資料會說話請重視你們資料所呈現的數據這部分所以9月17號備轉容量綠燈能夠撐起來的就是因為剛才說的核電廠的清油機組還包括興達電廠的燃油機組123號機備轉容量的緊急備轉的通通都開始用了才達到這個效果\n\n26\n00:09:26,102 --> 00:09:54,627\n這就是實情啊所以這部分如果我們不知道這些情況的話我們根本就不知道台電在就是會出現到把該開的部分實行再告訴大家我們繼續再看到有些台電的最重要的任務就是要供電正常對但是還是必須要合法的情況你們用掩蓋的數據去讓大家以為是供電正常事實上不是的你們在掩蓋缺電的成果\n\n27\n00:09:55,608 --> 00:10:09,170\n決定的結果我們繼續往下看在電網的部分我們看到的是現在如果要看過去的電力供需的部分的時候可以看到在目前10月7號只可以看到過去只看到\n\n28\n00:10:10,664 --> 00:10:31,234\n8月31號最早的因為呢供應的資訊是說呢並沒有完整的平時完整資料是4月中旬才能夠更新所以我10月15號之後才能知道9月份的資料因此我剛才大家知道了9月9號清達電廠爆炸了9月17號我剛才舉的例子當中在\n\n29\n00:10:33,254 --> 00:11:01,510\n在所謂的這個容量的部分的時候你就發現到它其實是是用電應該是吃緊的但是卻呈現一個綠燈狀況這就是出現了很大的問題資訊的不透明讓我們達到了一個沒辦法真正就落實到一個真正的政策的問題我們再繼續往下看這個地方我就要用到的其他國家的日本的日本大家看一下日本東京電力公司它裡面可以看到的是\n\n30\n00:11:02,270 --> 00:11:26,355\n當然把今日的電力使用的預測率啊把需求的高峰跟使用率的高峰就把它呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看的時候他甚至可以馬上的可以看到在9月的時候的部分都可以呈現出來不像我剛才所說的目前我們在台電的官網當中你要查9月的資料在瞬間的或者是在容量的部分上是有問題的\n\n31\n00:11:27,595 --> 00:11:49,027\n這部分我想要以他人知識來做一下我想過去的資料怎麼樣呈現我覺得我們可以來討論但是我跟委員報告就是說當初這個備轉容量率我們最主要的用意是說當天到底會不會供電正常這個是最關鍵的如果今天我們供電正常以後事實上就表示沒有問題了\n\n32\n00:11:50,766 --> 00:12:10,598\n但是每一項的東西每一項的備轉都要等等你必須跟大家實行如果你都這樣做的話就會發生像京達的火力發電天然氣的防電掌你們在試運轉都刺上你們就等下運到一個加快馬力所出現的一個效果出來就爆炸了我們看怎麼呈現我們來討論所以我還跟你講說如果\n\n33\n00:12:12,419 --> 00:12:30,813\n這邊我很高興說部長你有呈現到說這個資料其實你們都有嗎這些部分就是公開的透明呈現就是想跟部長院長也請教的是在於說這種公開的知情權是非常重要的因為你要訂定一個良好的有效率的能源發電政策就必須要這樣子出現\n\n34\n00:12:32,038 --> 00:12:54,010\n謝謝委員的用心我們整天今天各機組的發電量他都會很詳細的列在上每天都有因為我們最關心的是當下到底會不會我們要了解是今天的狀況要有供電穩定那委員希望說你查詢到過去一段時間以來過去要長期的了解讓民眾了解正確的\n\n35\n00:12:55,010 --> 00:13:23,139\n電力政策產能的呈現我需要的是大家知道不是我當立法委員我才要去問政才知道每一個人都可以關心到我的電力包括的是如果NVIDIA輝達他要來用電包括供電的需求每年都要成長到1.8度1.8%到2%的時候那你的用電怎麼不夠難怪各界的國外的投資者都會注意到說你用電現在已經呈現到是一個國安問題啦用電的能源國安的問題是這麼呈現的就是因為這樣子而來的\n\n36\n00:13:24,019 --> 00:13:46,130\n所以這部分的需要因為過去你們只敢備轉容量率高這個部分都是個假象這都是假象開綠燈其實是不是正確的那你知道我就繼續往下去看了好當然我剛才聽到說院長你說你會說限期改善要台電的網站公開透明其實像其他該有的都放上去事實上可以嗎\n\n37\n00:13:46,710 --> 00:14:03,418\n我說realtime都有但是就是過去的資料怎麼呈現那個我們看看他必須是要累積的部分在呈現的日本可以我們有離他更遠嗎我們是AI大國吧部長院長院長請你在這邊可以承諾嗎我們應該把這種公開透明的資訊查詢機制讓他更開公開透明\n\n38\n00:14:06,860 --> 00:14:27,217\n好謝謝委員關心整個能源的政策如果能夠提供更精確而且有一段時間讓大家能夠做參考來比較的話我認為這也是我們開放政府資料治理應該做的事情我請台電能夠進行研究但是我們跟日本到底不是用同一個模組同一個軟體所以不可能完全一樣用我們的方式盡量把過去的資料讓\n\n39\n00:14:27,978 --> 00:14:52,529\n報告委員好任何人可以公開來查詢什麼時候什麼時候今年年底應該可以吧其實你們之下都有吧只是什麼時候放上去而已嘛對不對好謝謝我們繼續往下看喔這邊我就是要詢問的是下面更重要的一個問題就是火力的主義機組轉備任務緊急的時候請問有沒有法源請問有沒有法源有哪一個法源\n\n40\n00:14:54,624 --> 00:15:14,202\n是這個嗎環評承諾條件嗎空氣污染排放標準嗎是這些嗎空污法也有依據的沒有那個空污法也是從環境地方空污這邊去呈現出來了沒有直接的法律的依據沒有所以這部分您才包括\n\n41\n00:15:15,223 --> 00:15:41,364\n剛才我們看到的核電廠的幾個清油機組也都是在用了沒有譬如說像那個興達燃煤這個一年當中可以緊急備用多少小時724個小時如果我記得沒錯的話請你知道這邊是依照電力設施的裡面的空氣污染排放標準是行政命令啊不是法啊那現在我們也會遵守啊\n\n42\n00:15:42,365 --> 00:16:02,343\n他不是法他是更一級的規定而已我現在跟大家講的是尤其是這個部分的興達電廠裡面的緊急備用機組跟備用機組當中我們在台電的官網當中其實沒有真正看到資料而是在高雄市環保局專區資料裡面才有啊台電是\n\n43\n00:16:06,306 --> 00:16:21,299\n台電是一個堂堂正正的國營企業為什麼是由地方政府來去決定他到底是一個是一個備用機組在什麼狀態的情況之下呢因為他們要同意我們才可以\n\n44\n00:16:22,681 --> 00:16:51,420\n這個緊急備用基礎因為他要算在722小時之內所以他要累計計算是不是有超過超過的話重點是董院長您是學法律的應該知道像這邊我們都甚至跟他講一件事情當核電廠的研議他如果還要繼續發展的他都有一個核子設施反應器的管制法嘛對不對這部分都是法那如果你要你要涉及到的是\n\n45\n00:16:52,681 --> 00:17:02,026\n精打火力電廠的部分有關研議的部分研議的部分他轉成緊急備轉基礎對不對是不是也應該要有一個\n\n46\n00:17:03,254 --> 00:17:28,263\n法源依據呢?是法律的依據呢?要專法來決定呢?依照剛剛部長的答覆他現在我們即使是一個命令那我們也是完全遵守這個命令的內容所以一個備用機組何時該啟動何時必須啟動一個年當中他能夠啟動多少小時這個都是明明白白規定的很實的而且他有規定就是說在空污期間是不能運轉的我們也會遵守\n\n47\n00:17:28,863 --> 00:17:33,674\n好這部分這就是要跟部長跟院長交換意見\n\n48\n00:17:35,999 --> 00:18:01,121\n你們用的是環評的承諾條件還包括是空氣污染排放標準也許是在空氣污染法環境部長也上來了可是這麼涉及到我們的人民的健康的部分如果這個資訊沒有公開尤其沒有法律的依據甚至這個公告完全是由地方政府來決定的話經濟部長你不會是失職嗎你把這個權利讓地方政府去決定嗎\n\n49\n00:18:01,761 --> 00:18:29,913\n所以我剛剛回答這個委員的想法是說這是我記得啦我記得應該是好像空污法之下包委員其實兩個一個是環評他們要興建的時候要通過環評的決定那他的承諾就變成是他一定要去照這個營運來遵守那空污法是相對的他如果是緊急備用機組就720個小時是空污法裡面規定的好但是最重要的是剛才的3號跟4號機是備用機組嗎\n\n50\n00:18:32,683 --> 00:18:50,894\n對嘛商高市場是非常基礎那商高市場他必須到8%才用嘛對不對8%備轉容率在8%以下的時候才有可是剛才的我剛才說9月17號就不是嘛還在綠燈嘛他們其實任何一個台電運轉的時候前一天就要預估今天的備轉容率多少你說的是實際上執行的多少這兩個意義是不一樣的\n\n51\n00:18:52,256 --> 00:19:13,015\n對所以我的才呈現出來我都要凸顯的我們現在台電的官網的用電資料並不是完全真正的實行你就把預測的部分要放進來了這樣是不對的才想說剛剛院長有承諾那就好了他的備轉就是希望說不要讓他降到安全數字以下所以他預估之後他認為我要提前作業這個沒有什麼不對\n\n52\n00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:28,750\n終極目標在於穩定跟供電無虞你們這樣用預備的部分就是模糊大家的視聽的啦我跟你講這些部分我們因為部長承諾我們就必須再繼續再往下去看大家現在更重要想要就是針對的是\n\n53\n00:19:31,013 --> 00:19:48,413\n院長你在做一個能源的一個行政院長嘛就在說非核家園政策我們知道看到的是有些的能源的再生能源的配比有事實上是有跳票嘛因為明年才要達到2020%對不對好那另外電力供需的部分的缺口也呈現喔包括這次的興達電廠的\n\n54\n00:19:51,735 --> 00:20:00,153\n煤氣的部分也是就是因為他發生火災的他到明年才達到對不對但是還有供電的需求是不是也是一直到每年大概成長1.8\n\n55\n00:20:02,154 --> 00:20:21,428\n以上的用電成長率對不對這是都是很大的一個需求喔還有排碳政策這部分國際趨勢我們看一下那政府呢他已經推動了2.0的這個政策是好事情但是呢想要跟的是院長你交換的意見是過去是R100可是這部分只是商業策略啊還有CFE\n\n56\n00:20:22,989 --> 00:20:36,894\n24小時7天全時的武漢的這個一個國際政策部分啊這才是更重要因為他就是聯合國的而且是國際的企業當中最重要的部分的他在推動的你如果還要談到過去你只談到的\n\n57\n00:20:38,001 --> 00:21:04,896\n在針對海灘政策你還只講到說再生能源事實上是不夠的我們再繼續往下看國際趨勢當中三十二兩百多個國家裡面三十二個國家是用核能核綠一起在這邊的那我現在就是提供的一個重點說如果深境造成這樣一個缺電的情況之下其實是一種政治的作為因為我們走向反而家園了這種情況您還是目前民進黨政府還是推向的一個政治的作為才讓到現在的一個我剛才所說的9月17號那個部分的\n\n58\n00:21:05,756 --> 00:21:23,285\n這種所謂這種的缺電的吃緊的用電吃緊就是呈現出來的所以特別希望跟他講左院長尤其在823的公投決定之後希望說你過去的1.0的政策的通通都是在修修補補東補一個西補一個那希望是說\n\n59\n00:21:24,586 --> 00:21:39,280\n您有一個政治家或者是一個對全國的全世界在能源上面的一個重點呢就是說以那個我能夠呈現出佐隆大2.0的部分全新的去做一個系統性的政策能源的一個規劃您覺得你的方向上是可以進行的嗎\n\n60\n00:21:40,814 --> 00:22:00,536\n我們在新的能源政策總統指示的2.0裡面剛剛委員已經把它秀出來了那個就是現在國家很具體的一個方向發展多元的綠能深度節能科技儲能而且要加強電網韌性現在就是往這個方向在走我們也有政策我們也有經費我們也有執行的期程都有至於您說的非核家園\n\n61\n00:22:01,477 --> 00:22:14,410\n但當初修法之後我們已經沒有那個時間上的限制但是我們認為傳統的核能對未來的子孫還是很大的這個負擔所以有新式的核能你沒有展上實質上的居修啊32國家裡面包括日本包括南韓\n\n62\n00:22:16,892 --> 00:22:45,075\n包括的是美國這邊都已經往這邊去進行了美國的核能部門還可以幫助我們去解決到我們今天的貿易逆差的問題所以請你好好在想著看起來您是不想要負政治責任啦2.0也不想做啦我們就看看未來在明年的時候看看總統在政府這邊的2.0政策能不能出現如果沒有我真的覺得你要負起你的政治責任了好現在這部分能源部議題我們告一個段落我們現在繼續往下看在部分在請的是教育部教育的議題請教育部長\n\n63\n00:22:47,163 --> 00:23:01,012\n教育部長教育議題上面我們看到的是一個教師荒這部分請問院長您對於這個教師荒會帶來什麼樣的影響您有什麼看法我們當然最近幾年一直在充實\n\n64\n00:23:01,997 --> 00:23:29,609\n整個教育的經費讓他達到我們憲法上的一個大家過去的要求那也因為如此我們對教師的福利也持續的在做一些有效的增進我們也強化整個校園的教學的品質跟環境那對教師的任用我想教育部也一直在做多項的努力是不是請部長來說明好那當然我想問一下部長我就是也要請問鄭部長就在說您認為教師荒是什麼因素造成的\n\n65\n00:23:30,848 --> 00:23:44,327\n我想感謝委員關心中小學老師確實因為少子化過去各縣市我進來的時候事實上幾年前大概各縣市因為擔心縣市的老師\n\n66\n00:23:45,822 --> 00:24:07,953\n少子化以後減班所以老師要重新做一些所以你認為是少子化的影響而已嗎我是說這是一個原因當然另外一個是產業上的一些原因我們繼續再往下看因為時間上面有限你剛才講到少子化跟產業上面的需求是重要的不過我們看到的是\n\n67\n00:24:09,534 --> 00:24:35,227\n暑假結束之前你們發了新聞稿當中說缺額本來是25號的時候2600人後來變成到1429人我們後來又變成說在開學前的時候僅剩下276人但是實際上面的情形我們看到了我自己在國教署的網站當中就看到是很多的缺額都還在這部分看起來是一個數字有美化都是可能把\n\n68\n00:24:36,107 --> 00:25:02,562\n行政的這個責任教學的責任就給其他人去兼職了啦至少讓學生有做這可以考慮到是有這樣的情形那我們現在看到這個缺額這部分的都還有都還有這麼多齁這個情況實質上的缺額我們看到的是我自己都看到網站上到10月份都還在爭代理教師的這個或是正式教師的總共缺額是581名那現在怎麼樣解決這個問題呢跟委員報告全國中小學有超過20萬人\n\n69\n00:25:03,854 --> 00:25:31,382\n那因為各縣市還是我剛才講為了他們自己各控管8%以8%來講這個銀額已經超過了81是非常少那我同意因為產業上的一個這個蓬勃的一個發展包含待遇所以有部分類科還有部分偏鄉的地方他確實在聘用老師是比較辛苦的那在這個8%的一個控管裡面\n\n70\n00:25:32,723 --> 00:26:01,245\n你認為說這樣是可以的我就再繼續往下看去上個禮拜的時候其實全教總有提出五個字的訴求在五個訴求當中有部分我看到國教署也有在接見這部分的限時問題上面我想包括行政減量代理教師權益職務加急這部分還有校園單數的問題我上次也聽到您到辦公室來講單數的問題到年底或之前會解決對不對有一個方向校士會議我們會讓他能夠有一個更\n\n71\n00:26:01,966 --> 00:26:26,322\n更好的一個這個整個這個運作的程序也就是說我們希望把爛數的這一塊能夠先取消能夠減少因為從我們過去真正能夠真正被進入到那些這個不是任教師的基本上他都是具名投訴的那我們以今年來看有1300多位大部分都是\n\n72\n00:26:27,182 --> 00:26:53,389\n非居民也就是我們讓會非常多的一個部長你在很多的教師的努力之下抗議之下你有做這個方向學習我覺得這個是實在肯定的我想那不是教師的抗議是教育部本來我們在許多的這些相關法令我們也了解也跟地方做許多的座談了解老師跟校長親家長的一個聲音我們做滾動式的修正修法這邊是不是年底的時候要確定可以出來\n\n73\n00:26:54,959 --> 00:27:18,867\n關於在校士會議在高中老師以下的這個這個部分我們年底一定會我們事實上現在已經有初步的一個修訂了一個另外一個很重要的問題院長教育的問題是國本真的要考慮到的是在9月28日出現的那非常多的民眾因為連師培生涯也不願意去再繼續留在教育界當後輩的老師的有沒有考慮到要做開國師會議教育的國師會議\n\n74\n00:27:22,248 --> 00:27:36,522\n我想教育的一個國師會議如果它只是一個大敗敗那就看你的誠心誠意啦院長院長我想要請院長回答一下院長國師教育會議百年大計有沒有機會可能\n\n75\n00:27:37,783 --> 00:27:56,507\n教育部如何跟地方政府一起跟民間的團體跟教育團體一起來商討一個現在這幾個問題解決的方式如果教育部能夠做這樣的工作我非常的支持但不必叫做什麼國事會議他只要能夠針對問題來解決就好就希望繼續再監督沒有到動搖國本的狀況您認為還是還沒有到動搖國本的狀況就對了是吧\n\n76\n00:28:04,721 --> 00:28:11,964\n我們不會讓教育動搖那我現在請謝謝教育部長那我現在請李洋運動部長上台謝謝\n\n77\n00:28:22,649 --> 00:28:39,158\n先請院長就先你回答一下好了啦這部分其實您請的李洋當部長我覺得是一個非常有遠見的一個做法啦這部分值得肯定那現在李洋部長來了就說部長您對於體育界你有六大具體措施您對體育界有什麼樣的改革規劃\n\n78\n00:28:40,305 --> 00:28:58,978\n我們運動部最重要當然是全民運動落實多元平權以及永續發展的價值那當然我這邊要引用一下鄭麗君副院長我認為鄭麗君副院長說過步步都是文化部那我們認為步步都是運動部好所以就是需要很多步步都需要互相的融合\n\n79\n00:28:59,798 --> 00:29:11,685\n合作嘛對不對好那這樣子請問院長您對於新上任這個里昂部長的期許還有運動界的改革方向像全民的運動這部分還有國際的方向你有沒有什麼樣的期許\n\n80\n00:29:12,503 --> 00:29:32,098\n全民運動全民體育運動競技國際事務以及未來舉辦大型的以台灣元素的國際比賽以及適應運動適應體育等等都是李洋部長我們在第一次交換過意見當中他所提出的種種的想法我認為李部長一個最大的優點是他來自體育界食物界他有\n\n81\n00:29:33,078 --> 00:29:56,854\n現役國手最好的經驗他知道我們的訓練中心該怎麼改革他知道現在單項協會該怎麼改革他知道怎麼樣訓練更年輕的下一輩的國家的體育好手他知道怎麼樣推動到整個社區教育跟著全民運動上面去而且另外一個重點是他沒有包袱我也不要給他任何的包袱我讓他盡量發揮他的想像的空間用新的觀念來帶領這個新的運動部\n\n82\n00:29:58,971 --> 00:30:27,824\n好非常期待未來有繼續這樣的一個表現不過現在運動部的員還沒有徵補完那什麼時候會徵補完畢呢新成立一個部會都有這樣的一個過渡的時機那現在他已經徵補大概一半人接近到年底的話那個運動部有六成六成以上而已啊因為我們可以從各部調來我們可以外邊來招聘這個都需要有一點時間來討論但是主要的這幾個帶領運動部裡面的次長司長署長我們都已經訂\n\n83\n00:30:32,247 --> 00:30:33,837\n好謝謝謝謝劉淑彬委員執行\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n7369\t11333\t有請左院長麻煩請左院長備詢劉元豪好\n27657\t45343\t今天呢來跟您討論一下台電的資訊用電的資訊那我們看到的是在您看過院長想請問一下您看過在台電的官網的用電資訊嗎我幾乎天天都會看今天的備轉容量率多少\n46045\t63858\t非常好我們現在來看一下第一個看到這個是一天的用電資訊只有兩天內的曲線第二我們來看一下全天的各能源的用電的曲線只有當天有這個圖表這部分包括的是台電他最近台電他最不敢\n65039\t93074\t貼的24小時的用電的曲線圖因為再生能源在只有24小時的量大概就只有10%而已我們再繼續往下看包括的是備轉的容量率這部分它時間比較多了有112到113年的3年曲線但是瞬間的部分也只能查到1.5個月前的部分的數據卻沒有每天的使用的高峰跟備轉容量率每天的低峰的數據\n94435\t118277\t那部分我們看到這裡第四項我們看到是各機組當中的影響倍轉容量率的部分他只有每天的每小時的瞬間那這部分呢經濟部或者是台電他最喜歡是在中午的時候把資料PO出來因為那時候可以看到再生能源非常多的這個發電量就是太陽能源這邊我們再繼續往下看的時候我剛才\n119237\t141887\t隨時都有 像我現在手上的就是15.26 今天的備轉容量率他沒有在中午才做 早上在做 晚上我現在沒有做 包括112年到114年我們現在把我剛剛講的部分這部分呈現出來沒有錯 我現在是其實我把它整理出來的那我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分等一下我要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的我現在再講講看\n143348\t158207\t在這裡我們看到是把剛才我四項的資料都把它彙整起來的時候就得到這樣的資訊就是說台電的這個電網的官網的資訊揭露它其實是並就是兩天的當日的三年內的部分是一個\n159308\t184026\t備轉容量率的部分像你剛才說的有到這個情況還有備轉的過去的用電資料是記錄到上個月例如說我今天用的我今天10月7號我實際上看到歷史性的記錄的完整的部分只看到今年的8月31號這部分就想要請問的這樣的一個台電官網資訊街道是否符合一個保障民眾基本知情權呢\n185107\t204859\t請問院長他每天都有公佈啊你每天都有公佈歷史資料我記得是日間封是有好 沒關係因為你現在講片段資料我剛才呈現出來是不夠完整的這邊我們繼續往下看現在我們現在講的是一個9月16號到9月17、18號連續三天的用電封負載這部分你現在已經絕對查不到啦\n210262\t223076\t那我們看到的是在9月16、17、18三天喔這個資訊你現在絕對是查不到在官網當中絕對現在是查不到那請問一下院長你知道9月17號的夜間尖峰的備轉容量率是多少嗎\n224569\t239616\t9月17號 你應該不知道那當然我要去查一下 現在不可能知道部長知道嗎 郭部長你知道嗎好 我現在跟你講 我現在呈現出來就是三天的時候呢 黃色是供電吃緊 綠色是充電17號是充綠的\n241837\t254591\t18號呢是吃緊的三天之內卻有一天的話是是一個充裕的情況那被轉容量率那天平常都是那三天的八十八十十點六一到六點一一你可以看到這實際上面的數據是這樣子好\n257642\t285474\t我們繼續往下看這邊我們就想到這邊這有一個情況是因為三天的時間當中兩天是用電吃緊黃色一天是綠色是用電的一個是充裕的那我們就想問一下請問在這個情況之下你知道當天的被轉容量率在那天的用電情況是怎麼樣的嗎當天隨時隨地都有那個數據會出來你如果看手機也會顯現\n287199\t304586\t沒有 那我們現在因為要查資料我們要做論證需求這是一般人要了解用電的需求狀況繼續往下看這一張圖看得很清楚這一張圖裡面是9月17號緊急跟備用機組的使用狀況大家可以看到是\n305862\t306603\t因為那時候南部的興達機組出了問題\n328828\t354560\t所以備用的機組就要啟動啊那這樣好玩喔 如果沒有問題都不用啟動部長你現在看看喔 9月9號發生新打對不對那可是9月16號的時候是吃緊的可是9月17號確實充裕的喔 9月18號又是吃緊的可是9月17號就特別 我們才想要來看看因為那時候林口的機組出了問題\n356294\t377152\t對沒錯 但是更重要的是林口機組出去的問題可是核二核三廠的清油機組卻全開你知道嗎這邊全開 我現在只讓大家知道這個全開核電廠裡面的清油機組也全開了這是非常緊急需要的時候才開的因為林口電廠出了問題\n379494\t403120\t供電正常我們就把它提升可是為什麼9月9月開始9月16、18確實吃緊的情況9月17確實出現到一個充裕的情況這是我們繼續再往下看9月9號的時候是興達出了問題那中間我們有些備用基礎是沒有問題但是我們現在看看興達的部分就是我現在想說的興達這邊您說的是興達他有\n406701\t431042\t我們再看看興達的燃煤電廠喔3號4號這個是備用機組對不對可是你看看他發電的時間什麼時候開始的臨時 凌晨就開始啦所以請問發電機組興達電廠的燃煤機組是備用機組他什麼時候才可以開啊\n431974\t448231\t就去備用的時候電力假如說我們要供電正常對 他都需要的是在需要在百分之八以下對不對可是你的燈是綠色的喔不要忘記喔你當天的燈是綠色的喔你的綠色你為什麼需要開呢如果是百分之八的話為什麼需要開勒\n449392\t477383\t這就是大問題啊我們在另外看到是部長這是事實我就是要出現出來你不是講到實情我們繼續往下看燃煤機組跟天然氣有點不太一樣燃煤可能它的熱氣是比較強所以這邊是沒有錯燃煤機組就是需要燃煤機組就是需要在備轉容量率8的時候才會開嘛對不對可是你是綠燈喔10%以上為什麼要開呢這就是有問題的地方我們繼續往下看\n478463\t493469\t9月17號你剛才有說的有些其他機組這部分那我們再生能源不是很棒嗎這部分再生能源有出現狀況嗎再說一次再生能源的基礎再生能源就是如果是太陽能光電就是白天\n495737\t520564\t對 非常好 我們繼續往下看可是整個部分就跟大家講了所有包括興達電廠的1234號緊急備用跟備用全部開了還包括的是核二廠核三廠的緊急的清油備用基礎也全部開了才得到綠色的這個結果那表示什麼 就是缺電啊可是缺電你們去還是成立一個綠色的燈飾站\n523728\t529653\t領口的領部基礎跟行囊的基礎都是故障的情況下整個特殊的狀況它是一個特殊狀況包圍紅那段時間都供電正常\n539921\t560718\t沒有任何缺電的問題事實上面我用資料會說話請重視你們資料所呈現的數據這部分所以9月17號備轉容量綠燈能夠撐起來的就是因為剛才說的核電廠的清油機組還包括興達電廠的燃油機組123號機備轉容量的緊急備轉的通通都開始用了才達到這個效果\n566102\t594627\t這就是實情啊所以這部分如果我們不知道這些情況的話我們根本就不知道台電在就是會出現到把該開的部分實行再告訴大家我們繼續再看到有些台電的最重要的任務就是要供電正常對 但是還是必須要合法的情況你們用掩蓋的數據去讓大家以為是供電正常事實上不是的你們在掩蓋缺電的成果\n595608\t609170\t決定的結果我們繼續往下看在電網的部分我們看到的是現在如果要看過去的電力供需的部分的時候可以看到在目前10月7號只可以看到過去只看到\n610664\t631234\t8月31號最早的因為呢供應的資訊是說呢並沒有完整的平時完整資料是4月中旬才能夠更新所以我10月15號之後才能知道9月份的資料因此我剛才大家知道了9月9號清達電廠爆炸了9月17號我剛才舉的例子當中在\n633254\t661510\t在所謂的這個容量的部分的時候你就發現到它其實是是用電應該是吃緊的但是卻呈現一個綠燈狀況這就是出現了很大的問題資訊的不透明讓我們達到了一個沒辦法真正就落實到一個真正的政策的問題我們再繼續往下看這個地方我就要用到的其他國家的日本的日本大家看一下日本東京電力公司它裡面可以看到的是\n662270\t686355\t當然把今日的電力使用的預測率啊把需求的高峰跟使用率的高峰就把它呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看的時候他甚至可以馬上的可以看到在9月的時候的部分都可以呈現出來不像我剛才所說的目前我們在台電的官網當中你要查9月的資料在瞬間的或者是在容量的部分上是有問題的\n687595\t709027\t這部分我想要以他人知識來做一下我想過去的資料怎麼樣呈現我覺得我們可以來討論但是我跟委員報告就是說當初這個備轉容量率我們最主要的用意是說當天到底會不會供電正常這個是最關鍵的如果今天我們供電正常以後事實上就表示沒有問題了\n710766\t730598\t但是每一項的東西每一項的備轉都要等等你必須跟大家實行如果你都這樣做的話就會發生像京達的火力發電天然氣的防電掌你們在試運轉都刺上你們就等下運到一個加快馬力所出現的一個效果出來就爆炸了我們看怎麼呈現我們來討論所以我還跟你講說如果\n732419\t750813\t這邊我很高興說部長你有呈現到說這個資料其實你們都有嗎這些部分就是公開的透明呈現就是想跟部長院長也請教的是在於說這種公開的知情權是非常重要的因為你要訂定一個良好的有效率的能源發電政策就必須要這樣子出現\n752038\t774010\t謝謝委員的用心我們整天今天各機組的發電量他都會很詳細的列在上每天都有因為我們最關心的是當下到底會不會我們要了解是今天的狀況要有供電穩定那委員希望說你查詢到過去一段時間以來過去要長期的了解讓民眾了解正確的\n775010\t803139\t電力政策產能的呈現我需要的是大家知道不是我當立法委員我才要去問政才知道每一個人都可以關心到我的電力包括的是如果NVIDIA輝達他要來用電包括供電的需求每年都要成長到1.8度1.8%到2%的時候那你的用電怎麼不夠難怪各界的國外的投資者都會注意到說你用電現在已經呈現到是一個國安問題啦用電的能源國安的問題是這麼呈現的就是因為這樣子而來的\n804019\t826130\t所以這部分的需要因為過去你們只敢備轉容量率高這個部分都是個假象這都是假象開綠燈其實是不是正確的那你知道我就繼續往下去看了好當然我剛才聽到說院長你說你會說限期改善要台電的網站公開透明其實像其他該有的都放上去事實上可以嗎\n826710\t843418\t我說real time都有但是就是過去的資料怎麼呈現那個我們看看他必須是要累積的部分在呈現的日本可以 我們有離他更遠嗎我們是AI大國吧部長 院長 院長請你在這邊可以承諾嗎我們應該把這種公開透明的資訊查詢機制讓他更開 公開透明\n846860\t867217\t好謝謝委員關心整個能源的政策如果能夠提供更精確而且有一段時間讓大家能夠做參考來比較的話我認為這也是我們開放政府資料治理應該做的事情我請台電能夠進行研究但是我們跟日本到底不是用同一個模組同一個軟體所以不可能完全一樣用我們的方式盡量把過去的資料讓\n867978\t892529\t報告委員好 任何人可以公開來查詢什麼時候什麼時候今年年底應該可以吧其實你們之下都有吧只是什麼時候放上去而已嘛 對不對好 謝謝我們繼續往下看喔這邊我就是要詢問的是下面更重要的一個問題就是火力的主義機組轉備任務緊急的時候請問有沒有法源請問有沒有法源有 哪一個法源\n894624\t914202\t是這個嗎 環評承諾條件嗎空氣污染排放標準嗎是這些嗎空污法也有依據的沒有 那個空污法也是從環境地方空污這邊去呈現出來了沒有直接的法律的依據 沒有所以這部分您才包括\n915223\t941364\t剛才我們看到的核電廠的幾個清油機組也都是在用了沒有 譬如說像那個興達燃煤這個一年當中可以緊急備用多少小時 724個小時如果我記得沒錯的話請你知道這邊是依照電力設施的裡面的空氣污染排放標準是行政命令啊 不是法啊那現在我們也會遵守啊\n942365\t962343\t他不是法 他是更一級的規定而已我現在跟大家講的是尤其是這個部分的興達電廠裡面的緊急備用機組跟備用機組當中我們在台電的官網當中其實沒有真正看到資料而是在高雄市環保局專區資料裡面才有啊台電是\n966306\t981299\t台電是一個堂堂正正的國營企業為什麼是由地方政府來去決定他到底是一個是一個備用機組在什麼狀態的情況之下呢因為他們要同意我們才可以\n982681\t1011420\t這個緊急備用基礎因為他要算在722小時之內所以他要累計計算是不是有超過超過的話重點是董院長您是學法律的應該知道像這邊我們都甚至跟他講一件事情當核電廠的研議他如果還要繼續發展的他都有一個核子設施反應器的管制法嘛對不對這部分都是法那如果你要你要涉及到的是\n1012681\t1022026\t精打火力電廠的部分有關研議的部分研議的部分他轉成緊急備轉基礎對不對是不是也應該要有一個\n1023254\t1048263\t法源依據呢?是法律的依據呢?要專法來決定呢?依照剛剛部長的答覆他現在我們即使是一個命令那我們也是完全遵守這個命令的內容所以一個備用機組何時該啟動何時必須啟動一個年當中他能夠啟動多少小時這個都是明明白白規定的很實的而且他有規定就是說在空污期間是不能運轉的我們也會遵守\n1048863\t1053674\t好 這部分這就是要跟部長跟院長交換意見\n1055999\t1081121\t你們用的是環評的承諾條件還包括是空氣污染排放標準也許是在空氣污染法環境部長也上來了可是這麼涉及到我們的人民的健康的部分如果這個資訊沒有公開尤其沒有法律的依據甚至這個公告完全是由地方政府來決定的話經濟部長你不會是失職嗎你把這個權利讓地方政府去決定嗎\n1081761\t1109913\t所以我剛剛回答這個委員的想法是說這是我記得啦我記得應該是好像空污法之下包委員其實兩個一個是環評他們要興建的時候要通過環評的決定那他的承諾就變成是他一定要去照這個營運來遵守那空污法是相對的他如果是緊急備用機組就720個小時是空污法裡面規定的好 但是最重要的是剛才的3號跟4號機是備用機組嗎\n1112683\t1130894\t對嘛 商高市場是非常基礎那商高市場他必須到8%才用嘛 對不對8% 備轉容率在8%以下的時候才有可是剛才的 我剛才說9月17號就不是嘛還在綠燈嘛他們其實任何一個台電運轉的時候前一天就要預估今天的備轉容率多少你說的是實際上執行的多少這兩個意義是不一樣的\n1132256\t1153015\t對 所以我的才呈現出來我都要凸顯的我們現在台電的官網的用電資料並不是完全真正的實行你就把預測的部分要放進來了這樣是不對的才想說剛剛院長有承諾那就好了他的備轉就是希望說不要讓他降到安全數字以下所以他預估之後他認為我要提前作業這個沒有什麼不對\n1154870\t1168750\t終極目標在於穩定跟供電無虞你們這樣用預備的部分就是模糊大家的視聽的啦我跟你講這些部分我們因為部長承諾我們就必須再繼續再往下去看大家現在更重要想要就是針對的是\n1171013\t1188413\t院長你在做一個能源的一個行政院長嘛就在說非核家園政策我們知道看到的是有些的能源的再生能源的配比有事實上是有跳票嘛因為明年才要達到2020%對不對好那另外電力供需的部分的缺口也呈現喔包括這次的興達電廠的\n1191735\t1200153\t煤氣的部分也是就是因為他發生火災的他到明年才達到對不對但是還有供電的需求是不是也是一直到每年大概成長1.8\n1202154\t1221428\t以上的用電成長率對不對這是都是很大的一個需求喔還有排碳政策這部分國際趨勢我們看一下那政府呢他已經推動了2.0的這個政策是好事情但是呢想要跟的是院長你交換的意見是過去是R100可是這部分只是商業策略啊還有CFE\n1222989\t1236894\t24小時7天全時的武漢的這個一個國際政策部分啊這才是更重要因為他就是聯合國的而且是國際的企業當中最重要的部分的他在推動的你如果還要談到過去你只談到的\n1238001\t1264896\t在針對海灘政策你還只講到說再生能源事實上是不夠的我們再繼續往下看國際趨勢當中三十二兩百多個國家裡面三十二個國家是用核能 核綠一起在這邊的那我現在就是提供的一個重點說如果深境造成這樣一個缺電的情況之下其實是一種政治的作為因為我們走向反而家園了這種情況您還是目前民進黨政府還是推向的一個政治的作為才讓到現在的一個我剛才所說的9月17號那個部分的\n1265756\t1283285\t這種所謂這種的缺電的吃緊的用電吃緊就是呈現出來的所以特別希望跟他講左院長尤其在823的公投決定之後希望說你過去的1.0的政策的通通都是在修修補補東補一個西補一個那希望是說\n1284586\t1299280\t您有一個政治家或者是一個對全國的全世界在能源上面的一個重點呢就是說以那個我能夠呈現出佐隆大2.0的部分全新的去做一個系統性的政策能源的一個規劃您覺得你的方向上是可以進行的嗎\n1300814\t1320536\t我們在新的能源政策總統指示的2.0裡面剛剛委員已經把它秀出來了那個就是現在國家很具體的一個方向發展多元的綠能深度節能 科技儲能而且要加強電網韌性現在就是往這個方向在走我們也有政策 我們也有經費我們也有執行的期程都有至於您說的非核家園\n1321477\t1334410\t但當初修法之後我們已經沒有那個時間上的限制但是我們認為傳統的核能對未來的子孫還是很大的這個負擔所以有新式的核能你沒有展上實質上的居修啊32國家裡面包括日本包括南韓\n1336892\t1365075\t包括的是美國這邊都已經往這邊去進行了美國的核能部門還可以幫助我們去解決到我們今天的貿易逆差的問題所以請你好好在想著看起來您是不想要負政治責任啦2.0也不想做啦我們就看看未來在明年的時候看看總統在政府這邊的2.0政策能不能出現如果沒有我真的覺得你要負起你的政治責任了好現在這部分能源部議題我們告一個段落我們現在繼續往下看在部分在請的是教育部教育的議題請教育部長\n1367163\t1381012\t教育部長教育議題上面我們看到的是一個教師荒這部分請問院長您對於這個教師荒會帶來什麼樣的影響您有什麼看法我們當然最近幾年一直在充實\n1381997\t1409609\t整個教育的經費讓他達到我們憲法上的一個大家過去的要求那也因為如此我們對教師的福利也持續的在做一些有效的增進我們也強化整個校園的教學的品質跟環境那對教師的任用我想教育部也一直在做多項的努力是不是請部長來說明好 那當然我想問一下部長我就是也要請問鄭部長就在說您認為教師荒是什麼因素造成的\n1410848\t1424327\t我想感謝委員關心中小學老師確實因為少子化過去各縣市我進來的時候事實上幾年前大概各縣市因為擔心縣市的老師\n1425822\t1447953\t少子化以後減班所以老師要重新做一些所以你認為是少子化的影響而已嗎我是說這是一個原因當然另外一個是產業上的一些原因我們繼續再往下看因為時間上面有限你剛才講到少子化跟產業上面的需求是重要的不過我們看到的是\n1449534\t1475227\t暑假結束之前你們發了新聞稿當中說缺額本來是25號的時候2600人後來變成到1429人我們後來又變成說在開學前的時候僅剩下276人但是實際上面的情形我們看到了我自己在國教署的網站當中就看到是很多的缺額都還在這部分看起來是一個數字有美化都是可能把\n1476107\t1502562\t行政的這個責任教學的責任就給其他人去兼職了啦至少讓學生有做這可以考慮到是有這樣的情形那我們現在看到這個缺額這部分的都還有都還有這麼多齁這個情況實質上的缺額我們看到的是我自己都看到網站上到10月份都還在爭代理教師的這個或是正式教師的總共缺額是581名那現在怎麼樣解決這個問題呢跟委員報告全國中小學有超過20萬人\n1503854\t1531382\t那因為各縣市還是我剛才講為了他們自己各控管8%以8%來講這個銀額已經超過了81是非常少那我同意因為產業上的一個這個蓬勃的一個發展包含待遇所以有部分類科還有部分偏鄉的地方他確實在聘用老師是比較辛苦的那在這個8%的一個控管裡面\n1532723\t1561245\t你認為說這樣是可以的我就再繼續往下看去上個禮拜的時候其實全教總有提出五個字的訴求在五個訴求當中有部分我看到國教署也有在接見這部分的限時問題上面我想包括行政減量代理教師權益職務加急這部分還有校園單數的問題我上次也聽到您到辦公室來講單數的問題到年底或之前會解決對不對有一個方向校士會議我們會讓他能夠有一個更\n1561966\t1586322\t更好的一個這個整個這個運作的程序也就是說我們希望把爛數的這一塊能夠先取消能夠減少因為從我們過去真正能夠真正被進入到那些這個不是任教師的基本上他都是具名投訴的那我們以今年來看有1300多位大部分都是\n1587182\t1613389\t非居民 也就是我們讓會非常多的一個部長 你在很多的教師的努力之下 抗議之下你有做這個方向學習我覺得這個是實在肯定的我想那不是教師的抗議是教育部本來我們在許多的這些相關法令我們也了解 也跟地方做許多的座談了解老師跟校長親家長的一個聲音我們做滾動式的修正修法這邊是不是年底的時候要確定可以出來\n1614959\t1638867\t關於在校士會議在高中老師以下的這個這個部分我們年底一定會我們事實上現在已經有初步的一個修訂了一個另外一個很重要的問題院長教育的問題是國本真的要考慮到的是在9月28日出現的那非常多的民眾因為連師培生涯也不願意去再繼續留在教育界當後輩的老師的有沒有考慮到要做開國師會議教育的國師會議\n1642248\t1656522\t我想教育的一個國師會議如果它只是一個大敗敗 那就看你的誠心誠意啦院長院長 我想要請院長回答一下院長 國師教育會議百年大計有沒有機會可能\n1657783\t1676507\t教育部如何跟地方政府一起跟民間的團體跟教育團體一起來商討一個現在這幾個問題解決的方式如果教育部能夠做這樣的工作我非常的支持但不必叫做什麼國事會議他只要能夠針對問題來解決就好就希望繼續再監督沒有到動搖國本的狀況您認為還是還沒有到動搖國本的狀況就對了是吧\n1684721\t1691964\t我們不會讓教育動搖那我現在請 謝謝教育部長那我現在請李洋運動部長上台 謝謝\n1702649\t1719158\t先請院長就先你回答一下好了啦這部分其實您請的李洋當部長我覺得是一個非常有遠見的一個做法啦這部分值得肯定那現在李洋部長來了就說部長您對於體育界你有六大具體措施您對體育界有什麼樣的改革規劃\n1720305\t1738978\t我們運動部最重要當然是全民運動落實多元平權以及永續發展的價值那當然我這邊要引用一下鄭麗君副院長我認為鄭麗君副院長說過步步都是文化部那我們認為步步都是運動部好 所以就是需要很多步步都需要互相的融合\n1739798\t1751685\t合作嘛對不對好那這樣子請問院長您對於新上任這個里昂部長的期許還有運動界的改革方向像全民的運動這部分還有國際的方向你有沒有什麼樣的期許\n1752503\t1772098\t全民運動全民體育運動競技國際事務以及未來舉辦大型的以台灣元素的國際比賽以及適應運動適應體育等等都是李洋部長我們在第一次交換過意見當中他所提出的種種的想法我認為李部長一個最大的優點是他來自體育界食物界他有\n1773078\t1796854\t現役國手最好的經驗他知道我們的訓練中心該怎麼改革他知道現在單項協會該怎麼改革他知道怎麼樣訓練更年輕的下一輩的國家的體育好手他知道怎麼樣推動到整個社區教育跟著全民運動上面去而且另外一個重點是他沒有包袱我也不要給他任何的包袱我讓他盡量發揮他的想像的空間用新的觀念來帶領這個新的運動部\n1798971\t1827824\t好 非常期待未來有繼續這樣的一個表現不過現在運動部的員還沒有徵補完那什麼時候會徵補完畢呢新成立一個部會都有這樣的一個過渡的時機那現在他已經徵補大概一半人接近到年底的話那個運動部有六成六成以上而已啊因為我們可以從各部調來我們可以外邊來招聘這個都需要有一點時間來討論但是主要的這幾個帶領運動部裡面的次長 司長 署長我們都已經訂\n1832247\t1833837\t好謝謝 謝謝劉淑彬委員執行\n","txt":"有請左院長麻煩請左院長備詢劉元豪好\n今天呢來跟您討論一下台電的資訊用電的資訊那我們看到的是在您看過院長想請問一下您看過在台電的官網的用電資訊嗎我幾乎天天都會看今天的備轉容量率多少\n非常好我們現在來看一下第一個看到這個是一天的用電資訊只有兩天內的曲線第二我們來看一下全天的各能源的用電的曲線只有當天有這個圖表這部分包括的是台電他最近台電他最不敢\n貼的24小時的用電的曲線圖因為再生能源在只有24小時的量大概就只有10%而已我們再繼續往下看包括的是備轉的容量率這部分它時間比較多了有112到113年的3年曲線但是瞬間的部分也只能查到1.5個月前的部分的數據卻沒有每天的使用的高峰跟備轉容量率每天的低峰的數據\n那部分我們看到這裡第四項我們看到是各機組當中的影響倍轉容量率的部分他只有每天的每小時的瞬間那這部分呢經濟部或者是台電他最喜歡是在中午的時候把資料PO出來因為那時候可以看到再生能源非常多的這個發電量就是太陽能源這邊我們再繼續往下看的時候我剛才\n隨時都有 像我現在手上的就是15.26 今天的備轉容量率他沒有在中午才做 早上在做 晚上我現在沒有做 包括112年到114年我們現在把我剛剛講的部分這部分呈現出來沒有錯 我現在是其實我把它整理出來的那我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分等一下我要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的我現在再講講看\n在這裡我們看到是把剛才我四項的資料都把它彙整起來的時候就得到這樣的資訊就是說台電的這個電網的官網的資訊揭露它其實是並就是兩天的當日的三年內的部分是一個\n備轉容量率的部分像你剛才說的有到這個情況還有備轉的過去的用電資料是記錄到上個月例如說我今天用的我今天10月7號我實際上看到歷史性的記錄的完整的部分只看到今年的8月31號這部分就想要請問的這樣的一個台電官網資訊街道是否符合一個保障民眾基本知情權呢\n請問院長他每天都有公佈啊你每天都有公佈歷史資料我記得是日間封是有好 沒關係因為你現在講片段資料我剛才呈現出來是不夠完整的這邊我們繼續往下看現在我們現在講的是一個9月16號到9月17、18號連續三天的用電封負載這部分你現在已經絕對查不到啦\n那我們看到的是在9月16、17、18三天喔這個資訊你現在絕對是查不到在官網當中絕對現在是查不到那請問一下院長你知道9月17號的夜間尖峰的備轉容量率是多少嗎\n9月17號 你應該不知道那當然我要去查一下 現在不可能知道部長知道嗎 郭部長你知道嗎好 我現在跟你講 我現在呈現出來就是三天的時候呢 黃色是供電吃緊 綠色是充電17號是充綠的\n18號呢是吃緊的三天之內卻有一天的話是是一個充裕的情況那被轉容量率那天平常都是那三天的八十八十十點六一到六點一一你可以看到這實際上面的數據是這樣子好\n我們繼續往下看這邊我們就想到這邊這有一個情況是因為三天的時間當中兩天是用電吃緊黃色一天是綠色是用電的一個是充裕的那我們就想問一下請問在這個情況之下你知道當天的被轉容量率在那天的用電情況是怎麼樣的嗎當天隨時隨地都有那個數據會出來你如果看手機也會顯現\n沒有 那我們現在因為要查資料我們要做論證需求這是一般人要了解用電的需求狀況繼續往下看這一張圖看得很清楚這一張圖裡面是9月17號緊急跟備用機組的使用狀況大家可以看到是\n因為那時候南部的興達機組出了問題\n所以備用的機組就要啟動啊那這樣好玩喔 如果沒有問題都不用啟動部長你現在看看喔 9月9號發生新打對不對那可是9月16號的時候是吃緊的可是9月17號確實充裕的喔 9月18號又是吃緊的可是9月17號就特別 我們才想要來看看因為那時候林口的機組出了問題\n對沒錯 但是更重要的是林口機組出去的問題可是核二核三廠的清油機組卻全開你知道嗎這邊全開 我現在只讓大家知道這個全開核電廠裡面的清油機組也全開了這是非常緊急需要的時候才開的因為林口電廠出了問題\n供電正常我們就把它提升可是為什麼9月9月開始9月16、18確實吃緊的情況9月17確實出現到一個充裕的情況這是我們繼續再往下看9月9號的時候是興達出了問題那中間我們有些備用基礎是沒有問題但是我們現在看看興達的部分就是我現在想說的興達這邊您說的是興達他有\n我們再看看興達的燃煤電廠喔3號4號這個是備用機組對不對可是你看看他發電的時間什麼時候開始的臨時 凌晨就開始啦所以請問發電機組興達電廠的燃煤機組是備用機組他什麼時候才可以開啊\n就去備用的時候電力假如說我們要供電正常對 他都需要的是在需要在百分之八以下對不對可是你的燈是綠色的喔不要忘記喔你當天的燈是綠色的喔你的綠色你為什麼需要開呢如果是百分之八的話為什麼需要開勒\n這就是大問題啊我們在另外看到是部長這是事實我就是要出現出來你不是講到實情我們繼續往下看燃煤機組跟天然氣有點不太一樣燃煤可能它的熱氣是比較強所以這邊是沒有錯燃煤機組就是需要燃煤機組就是需要在備轉容量率8的時候才會開嘛對不對可是你是綠燈喔10%以上為什麼要開呢這就是有問題的地方我們繼續往下看\n9月17號你剛才有說的有些其他機組這部分那我們再生能源不是很棒嗎這部分再生能源有出現狀況嗎再說一次再生能源的基礎再生能源就是如果是太陽能光電就是白天\n對 非常好 我們繼續往下看可是整個部分就跟大家講了所有包括興達電廠的1234號緊急備用跟備用全部開了還包括的是核二廠核三廠的緊急的清油備用基礎也全部開了才得到綠色的這個結果那表示什麼 就是缺電啊可是缺電你們去還是成立一個綠色的燈飾站\n領口的領部基礎跟行囊的基礎都是故障的情況下整個特殊的狀況它是一個特殊狀況包圍紅那段時間都供電正常\n沒有任何缺電的問題事實上面我用資料會說話請重視你們資料所呈現的數據這部分所以9月17號備轉容量綠燈能夠撐起來的就是因為剛才說的核電廠的清油機組還包括興達電廠的燃油機組123號機備轉容量的緊急備轉的通通都開始用了才達到這個效果\n這就是實情啊所以這部分如果我們不知道這些情況的話我們根本就不知道台電在就是會出現到把該開的部分實行再告訴大家我們繼續再看到有些台電的最重要的任務就是要供電正常對 但是還是必須要合法的情況你們用掩蓋的數據去讓大家以為是供電正常事實上不是的你們在掩蓋缺電的成果\n決定的結果我們繼續往下看在電網的部分我們看到的是現在如果要看過去的電力供需的部分的時候可以看到在目前10月7號只可以看到過去只看到\n8月31號最早的因為呢供應的資訊是說呢並沒有完整的平時完整資料是4月中旬才能夠更新所以我10月15號之後才能知道9月份的資料因此我剛才大家知道了9月9號清達電廠爆炸了9月17號我剛才舉的例子當中在\n在所謂的這個容量的部分的時候你就發現到它其實是是用電應該是吃緊的但是卻呈現一個綠燈狀況這就是出現了很大的問題資訊的不透明讓我們達到了一個沒辦法真正就落實到一個真正的政策的問題我們再繼續往下看這個地方我就要用到的其他國家的日本的日本大家看一下日本東京電力公司它裡面可以看到的是\n當然把今日的電力使用的預測率啊把需求的高峰跟使用率的高峰就把它呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看的時候他甚至可以馬上的可以看到在9月的時候的部分都可以呈現出來不像我剛才所說的目前我們在台電的官網當中你要查9月的資料在瞬間的或者是在容量的部分上是有問題的\n這部分我想要以他人知識來做一下我想過去的資料怎麼樣呈現我覺得我們可以來討論但是我跟委員報告就是說當初這個備轉容量率我們最主要的用意是說當天到底會不會供電正常這個是最關鍵的如果今天我們供電正常以後事實上就表示沒有問題了\n但是每一項的東西每一項的備轉都要等等你必須跟大家實行如果你都這樣做的話就會發生像京達的火力發電天然氣的防電掌你們在試運轉都刺上你們就等下運到一個加快馬力所出現的一個效果出來就爆炸了我們看怎麼呈現我們來討論所以我還跟你講說如果\n這邊我很高興說部長你有呈現到說這個資料其實你們都有嗎這些部分就是公開的透明呈現就是想跟部長院長也請教的是在於說這種公開的知情權是非常重要的因為你要訂定一個良好的有效率的能源發電政策就必須要這樣子出現\n謝謝委員的用心我們整天今天各機組的發電量他都會很詳細的列在上每天都有因為我們最關心的是當下到底會不會我們要了解是今天的狀況要有供電穩定那委員希望說你查詢到過去一段時間以來過去要長期的了解讓民眾了解正確的\n電力政策產能的呈現我需要的是大家知道不是我當立法委員我才要去問政才知道每一個人都可以關心到我的電力包括的是如果NVIDIA輝達他要來用電包括供電的需求每年都要成長到1.8度1.8%到2%的時候那你的用電怎麼不夠難怪各界的國外的投資者都會注意到說你用電現在已經呈現到是一個國安問題啦用電的能源國安的問題是這麼呈現的就是因為這樣子而來的\n所以這部分的需要因為過去你們只敢備轉容量率高這個部分都是個假象這都是假象開綠燈其實是不是正確的那你知道我就繼續往下去看了好當然我剛才聽到說院長你說你會說限期改善要台電的網站公開透明其實像其他該有的都放上去事實上可以嗎\n我說real time都有但是就是過去的資料怎麼呈現那個我們看看他必須是要累積的部分在呈現的日本可以 我們有離他更遠嗎我們是AI大國吧部長 院長 院長請你在這邊可以承諾嗎我們應該把這種公開透明的資訊查詢機制讓他更開 公開透明\n好謝謝委員關心整個能源的政策如果能夠提供更精確而且有一段時間讓大家能夠做參考來比較的話我認為這也是我們開放政府資料治理應該做的事情我請台電能夠進行研究但是我們跟日本到底不是用同一個模組同一個軟體所以不可能完全一樣用我們的方式盡量把過去的資料讓\n報告委員好 任何人可以公開來查詢什麼時候什麼時候今年年底應該可以吧其實你們之下都有吧只是什麼時候放上去而已嘛 對不對好 謝謝我們繼續往下看喔這邊我就是要詢問的是下面更重要的一個問題就是火力的主義機組轉備任務緊急的時候請問有沒有法源請問有沒有法源有 哪一個法源\n是這個嗎 環評承諾條件嗎空氣污染排放標準嗎是這些嗎空污法也有依據的沒有 那個空污法也是從環境地方空污這邊去呈現出來了沒有直接的法律的依據 沒有所以這部分您才包括\n剛才我們看到的核電廠的幾個清油機組也都是在用了沒有 譬如說像那個興達燃煤這個一年當中可以緊急備用多少小時 724個小時如果我記得沒錯的話請你知道這邊是依照電力設施的裡面的空氣污染排放標準是行政命令啊 不是法啊那現在我們也會遵守啊\n他不是法 他是更一級的規定而已我現在跟大家講的是尤其是這個部分的興達電廠裡面的緊急備用機組跟備用機組當中我們在台電的官網當中其實沒有真正看到資料而是在高雄市環保局專區資料裡面才有啊台電是\n台電是一個堂堂正正的國營企業為什麼是由地方政府來去決定他到底是一個是一個備用機組在什麼狀態的情況之下呢因為他們要同意我們才可以\n這個緊急備用基礎因為他要算在722小時之內所以他要累計計算是不是有超過超過的話重點是董院長您是學法律的應該知道像這邊我們都甚至跟他講一件事情當核電廠的研議他如果還要繼續發展的他都有一個核子設施反應器的管制法嘛對不對這部分都是法那如果你要你要涉及到的是\n精打火力電廠的部分有關研議的部分研議的部分他轉成緊急備轉基礎對不對是不是也應該要有一個\n法源依據呢?是法律的依據呢?要專法來決定呢?依照剛剛部長的答覆他現在我們即使是一個命令那我們也是完全遵守這個命令的內容所以一個備用機組何時該啟動何時必須啟動一個年當中他能夠啟動多少小時這個都是明明白白規定的很實的而且他有規定就是說在空污期間是不能運轉的我們也會遵守\n好 這部分這就是要跟部長跟院長交換意見\n你們用的是環評的承諾條件還包括是空氣污染排放標準也許是在空氣污染法環境部長也上來了可是這麼涉及到我們的人民的健康的部分如果這個資訊沒有公開尤其沒有法律的依據甚至這個公告完全是由地方政府來決定的話經濟部長你不會是失職嗎你把這個權利讓地方政府去決定嗎\n所以我剛剛回答這個委員的想法是說這是我記得啦我記得應該是好像空污法之下包委員其實兩個一個是環評他們要興建的時候要通過環評的決定那他的承諾就變成是他一定要去照這個營運來遵守那空污法是相對的他如果是緊急備用機組就720個小時是空污法裡面規定的好 但是最重要的是剛才的3號跟4號機是備用機組嗎\n對嘛 商高市場是非常基礎那商高市場他必須到8%才用嘛 對不對8% 備轉容率在8%以下的時候才有可是剛才的 我剛才說9月17號就不是嘛還在綠燈嘛他們其實任何一個台電運轉的時候前一天就要預估今天的備轉容率多少你說的是實際上執行的多少這兩個意義是不一樣的\n對 所以我的才呈現出來我都要凸顯的我們現在台電的官網的用電資料並不是完全真正的實行你就把預測的部分要放進來了這樣是不對的才想說剛剛院長有承諾那就好了他的備轉就是希望說不要讓他降到安全數字以下所以他預估之後他認為我要提前作業這個沒有什麼不對\n終極目標在於穩定跟供電無虞你們這樣用預備的部分就是模糊大家的視聽的啦我跟你講這些部分我們因為部長承諾我們就必須再繼續再往下去看大家現在更重要想要就是針對的是\n院長你在做一個能源的一個行政院長嘛就在說非核家園政策我們知道看到的是有些的能源的再生能源的配比有事實上是有跳票嘛因為明年才要達到2020%對不對好那另外電力供需的部分的缺口也呈現喔包括這次的興達電廠的\n煤氣的部分也是就是因為他發生火災的他到明年才達到對不對但是還有供電的需求是不是也是一直到每年大概成長1.8\n以上的用電成長率對不對這是都是很大的一個需求喔還有排碳政策這部分國際趨勢我們看一下那政府呢他已經推動了2.0的這個政策是好事情但是呢想要跟的是院長你交換的意見是過去是R100可是這部分只是商業策略啊還有CFE\n24小時7天全時的武漢的這個一個國際政策部分啊這才是更重要因為他就是聯合國的而且是國際的企業當中最重要的部分的他在推動的你如果還要談到過去你只談到的\n在針對海灘政策你還只講到說再生能源事實上是不夠的我們再繼續往下看國際趨勢當中三十二兩百多個國家裡面三十二個國家是用核能 核綠一起在這邊的那我現在就是提供的一個重點說如果深境造成這樣一個缺電的情況之下其實是一種政治的作為因為我們走向反而家園了這種情況您還是目前民進黨政府還是推向的一個政治的作為才讓到現在的一個我剛才所說的9月17號那個部分的\n這種所謂這種的缺電的吃緊的用電吃緊就是呈現出來的所以特別希望跟他講左院長尤其在823的公投決定之後希望說你過去的1.0的政策的通通都是在修修補補東補一個西補一個那希望是說\n您有一個政治家或者是一個對全國的全世界在能源上面的一個重點呢就是說以那個我能夠呈現出佐隆大2.0的部分全新的去做一個系統性的政策能源的一個規劃您覺得你的方向上是可以進行的嗎\n我們在新的能源政策總統指示的2.0裡面剛剛委員已經把它秀出來了那個就是現在國家很具體的一個方向發展多元的綠能深度節能 科技儲能而且要加強電網韌性現在就是往這個方向在走我們也有政策 我們也有經費我們也有執行的期程都有至於您說的非核家園\n但當初修法之後我們已經沒有那個時間上的限制但是我們認為傳統的核能對未來的子孫還是很大的這個負擔所以有新式的核能你沒有展上實質上的居修啊32國家裡面包括日本包括南韓\n包括的是美國這邊都已經往這邊去進行了美國的核能部門還可以幫助我們去解決到我們今天的貿易逆差的問題所以請你好好在想著看起來您是不想要負政治責任啦2.0也不想做啦我們就看看未來在明年的時候看看總統在政府這邊的2.0政策能不能出現如果沒有我真的覺得你要負起你的政治責任了好現在這部分能源部議題我們告一個段落我們現在繼續往下看在部分在請的是教育部教育的議題請教育部長\n教育部長教育議題上面我們看到的是一個教師荒這部分請問院長您對於這個教師荒會帶來什麼樣的影響您有什麼看法我們當然最近幾年一直在充實\n整個教育的經費讓他達到我們憲法上的一個大家過去的要求那也因為如此我們對教師的福利也持續的在做一些有效的增進我們也強化整個校園的教學的品質跟環境那對教師的任用我想教育部也一直在做多項的努力是不是請部長來說明好 那當然我想問一下部長我就是也要請問鄭部長就在說您認為教師荒是什麼因素造成的\n我想感謝委員關心中小學老師確實因為少子化過去各縣市我進來的時候事實上幾年前大概各縣市因為擔心縣市的老師\n少子化以後減班所以老師要重新做一些所以你認為是少子化的影響而已嗎我是說這是一個原因當然另外一個是產業上的一些原因我們繼續再往下看因為時間上面有限你剛才講到少子化跟產業上面的需求是重要的不過我們看到的是\n暑假結束之前你們發了新聞稿當中說缺額本來是25號的時候2600人後來變成到1429人我們後來又變成說在開學前的時候僅剩下276人但是實際上面的情形我們看到了我自己在國教署的網站當中就看到是很多的缺額都還在這部分看起來是一個數字有美化都是可能把\n行政的這個責任教學的責任就給其他人去兼職了啦至少讓學生有做這可以考慮到是有這樣的情形那我們現在看到這個缺額這部分的都還有都還有這麼多齁這個情況實質上的缺額我們看到的是我自己都看到網站上到10月份都還在爭代理教師的這個或是正式教師的總共缺額是581名那現在怎麼樣解決這個問題呢跟委員報告全國中小學有超過20萬人\n那因為各縣市還是我剛才講為了他們自己各控管8%以8%來講這個銀額已經超過了81是非常少那我同意因為產業上的一個這個蓬勃的一個發展包含待遇所以有部分類科還有部分偏鄉的地方他確實在聘用老師是比較辛苦的那在這個8%的一個控管裡面\n你認為說這樣是可以的我就再繼續往下看去上個禮拜的時候其實全教總有提出五個字的訴求在五個訴求當中有部分我看到國教署也有在接見這部分的限時問題上面我想包括行政減量代理教師權益職務加急這部分還有校園單數的問題我上次也聽到您到辦公室來講單數的問題到年底或之前會解決對不對有一個方向校士會議我們會讓他能夠有一個更\n更好的一個這個整個這個運作的程序也就是說我們希望把爛數的這一塊能夠先取消能夠減少因為從我們過去真正能夠真正被進入到那些這個不是任教師的基本上他都是具名投訴的那我們以今年來看有1300多位大部分都是\n非居民 也就是我們讓會非常多的一個部長 你在很多的教師的努力之下 抗議之下你有做這個方向學習我覺得這個是實在肯定的我想那不是教師的抗議是教育部本來我們在許多的這些相關法令我們也了解 也跟地方做許多的座談了解老師跟校長親家長的一個聲音我們做滾動式的修正修法這邊是不是年底的時候要確定可以出來\n關於在校士會議在高中老師以下的這個這個部分我們年底一定會我們事實上現在已經有初步的一個修訂了一個另外一個很重要的問題院長教育的問題是國本真的要考慮到的是在9月28日出現的那非常多的民眾因為連師培生涯也不願意去再繼續留在教育界當後輩的老師的有沒有考慮到要做開國師會議教育的國師會議\n我想教育的一個國師會議如果它只是一個大敗敗 那就看你的誠心誠意啦院長院長 我想要請院長回答一下院長 國師教育會議百年大計有沒有機會可能\n教育部如何跟地方政府一起跟民間的團體跟教育團體一起來商討一個現在這幾個問題解決的方式如果教育部能夠做這樣的工作我非常的支持但不必叫做什麼國事會議他只要能夠針對問題來解決就好就希望繼續再監督沒有到動搖國本的狀況您認為還是還沒有到動搖國本的狀況就對了是吧\n我們不會讓教育動搖那我現在請 謝謝教育部長那我現在請李洋運動部長上台 謝謝\n先請院長就先你回答一下好了啦這部分其實您請的李洋當部長我覺得是一個非常有遠見的一個做法啦這部分值得肯定那現在李洋部長來了就說部長您對於體育界你有六大具體措施您對體育界有什麼樣的改革規劃\n我們運動部最重要當然是全民運動落實多元平權以及永續發展的價值那當然我這邊要引用一下鄭麗君副院長我認為鄭麗君副院長說過步步都是文化部那我們認為步步都是運動部好 所以就是需要很多步步都需要互相的融合\n合作嘛對不對好那這樣子請問院長您對於新上任這個里昂部長的期許還有運動界的改革方向像全民的運動這部分還有國際的方向你有沒有什麼樣的期許\n全民運動全民體育運動競技國際事務以及未來舉辦大型的以台灣元素的國際比賽以及適應運動適應體育等等都是李洋部長我們在第一次交換過意見當中他所提出的種種的想法我認為李部長一個最大的優點是他來自體育界食物界他有\n現役國手最好的經驗他知道我們的訓練中心該怎麼改革他知道現在單項協會該怎麼改革他知道怎麼樣訓練更年輕的下一輩的國家的體育好手他知道怎麼樣推動到整個社區教育跟著全民運動上面去而且另外一個重點是他沒有包袱我也不要給他任何的包袱我讓他盡量發揮他的想像的空間用新的觀念來帶領這個新的運動部\n好 非常期待未來有繼續這樣的一個表現不過現在運動部的員還沒有徵補完那什麼時候會徵補完畢呢新成立一個部會都有這樣的一個過渡的時機那現在他已經徵補大概一半人接近到年底的話那個運動部有六成六成以上而已啊因為我們可以從各部調來我們可以外邊來招聘這個都需要有一點時間來討論但是主要的這幾個帶領運動部裡面的次長 司長 署長我們都已經訂\n好謝謝 謝謝劉淑彬委員執行\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:07.369 --> 00:11.333\n有請左院長麻煩請左院長備詢劉元豪好\n\n00:27.657 --> 00:45.343\n今天呢來跟您討論一下台電的資訊用電的資訊那我們看到的是在您看過院長想請問一下您看過在台電的官網的用電資訊嗎我幾乎天天都會看今天的備轉容量率多少\n\n00:46.045 --> 01:03.858\n非常好我們現在來看一下第一個看到這個是一天的用電資訊只有兩天內的曲線第二我們來看一下全天的各能源的用電的曲線只有當天有這個圖表這部分包括的是台電他最近台電他最不敢\n\n01:05.039 --> 01:33.074\n貼的24小時的用電的曲線圖因為再生能源在只有24小時的量大概就只有10%而已我們再繼續往下看包括的是備轉的容量率這部分它時間比較多了有112到113年的3年曲線但是瞬間的部分也只能查到1.5個月前的部分的數據卻沒有每天的使用的高峰跟備轉容量率每天的低峰的數據\n\n01:34.435 --> 01:58.277\n那部分我們看到這裡第四項我們看到是各機組當中的影響倍轉容量率的部分他只有每天的每小時的瞬間那這部分呢經濟部或者是台電他最喜歡是在中午的時候把資料PO出來因為那時候可以看到再生能源非常多的這個發電量就是太陽能源這邊我們再繼續往下看的時候我剛才\n\n01:59.237 --> 02:21.887\n隨時都有像我現在手上的就是15.26今天的備轉容量率他沒有在中午才做早上在做晚上我現在沒有做包括112年到114年我們現在把我剛剛講的部分這部分呈現出來沒有錯我現在是其實我把它整理出來的那我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分等一下我要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的我現在再講講看\n\n02:23.348 --> 02:38.207\n在這裡我們看到是把剛才我四項的資料都把它彙整起來的時候就得到這樣的資訊就是說台電的這個電網的官網的資訊揭露它其實是並就是兩天的當日的三年內的部分是一個\n\n02:39.308 --> 03:04.026\n備轉容量率的部分像你剛才說的有到這個情況還有備轉的過去的用電資料是記錄到上個月例如說我今天用的我今天10月7號我實際上看到歷史性的記錄的完整的部分只看到今年的8月31號這部分就想要請問的這樣的一個台電官網資訊街道是否符合一個保障民眾基本知情權呢\n\n03:05.107 --> 03:24.859\n請問院長他每天都有公佈啊你每天都有公佈歷史資料我記得是日間封是有好沒關係因為你現在講片段資料我剛才呈現出來是不夠完整的這邊我們繼續往下看現在我們現在講的是一個9月16號到9月17、18號連續三天的用電封負載這部分你現在已經絕對查不到啦\n\n03:30.262 --> 03:43.076\n那我們看到的是在9月16、17、18三天喔這個資訊你現在絕對是查不到在官網當中絕對現在是查不到那請問一下院長你知道9月17號的夜間尖峰的備轉容量率是多少嗎\n\n03:44.569 --> 03:59.616\n9月17號你應該不知道那當然我要去查一下現在不可能知道部長知道嗎郭部長你知道嗎好我現在跟你講我現在呈現出來就是三天的時候呢黃色是供電吃緊綠色是充電17號是充綠的\n\n04:01.837 --> 04:14.591\n18號呢是吃緊的三天之內卻有一天的話是是一個充裕的情況那被轉容量率那天平常都是那三天的八十八十十點六一到六點一一你可以看到這實際上面的數據是這樣子好\n\n04:17.642 --> 04:45.474\n我們繼續往下看這邊我們就想到這邊這有一個情況是因為三天的時間當中兩天是用電吃緊黃色一天是綠色是用電的一個是充裕的那我們就想問一下請問在這個情況之下你知道當天的被轉容量率在那天的用電情況是怎麼樣的嗎當天隨時隨地都有那個數據會出來你如果看手機也會顯現\n\n04:47.199 --> 05:04.586\n沒有那我們現在因為要查資料我們要做論證需求這是一般人要了解用電的需求狀況繼續往下看這一張圖看得很清楚這一張圖裡面是9月17號緊急跟備用機組的使用狀況大家可以看到是\n\n05:05.862 --> 05:06.603\n因為那時候南部的興達機組出了問題\n\n05:28.828 --> 05:54.560\n所以備用的機組就要啟動啊那這樣好玩喔如果沒有問題都不用啟動部長你現在看看喔9月9號發生新打對不對那可是9月16號的時候是吃緊的可是9月17號確實充裕的喔9月18號又是吃緊的可是9月17號就特別我們才想要來看看因為那時候林口的機組出了問題\n\n05:56.294 --> 06:17.152\n對沒錯但是更重要的是林口機組出去的問題可是核二核三廠的清油機組卻全開你知道嗎這邊全開我現在只讓大家知道這個全開核電廠裡面的清油機組也全開了這是非常緊急需要的時候才開的因為林口電廠出了問題\n\n06:19.494 --> 06:43.120\n供電正常我們就把它提升可是為什麼9月9月開始9月16、18確實吃緊的情況9月17確實出現到一個充裕的情況這是我們繼續再往下看9月9號的時候是興達出了問題那中間我們有些備用基礎是沒有問題但是我們現在看看興達的部分就是我現在想說的興達這邊您說的是興達他有\n\n06:46.701 --> 07:11.042\n我們再看看興達的燃煤電廠喔3號4號這個是備用機組對不對可是你看看他發電的時間什麼時候開始的臨時凌晨就開始啦所以請問發電機組興達電廠的燃煤機組是備用機組他什麼時候才可以開啊\n\n07:11.974 --> 07:28.231\n就去備用的時候電力假如說我們要供電正常對他都需要的是在需要在百分之八以下對不對可是你的燈是綠色的喔不要忘記喔你當天的燈是綠色的喔你的綠色你為什麼需要開呢如果是百分之八的話為什麼需要開勒\n\n07:29.392 --> 07:57.383\n這就是大問題啊我們在另外看到是部長這是事實我就是要出現出來你不是講到實情我們繼續往下看燃煤機組跟天然氣有點不太一樣燃煤可能它的熱氣是比較強所以這邊是沒有錯燃煤機組就是需要燃煤機組就是需要在備轉容量率8的時候才會開嘛對不對可是你是綠燈喔10%以上為什麼要開呢這就是有問題的地方我們繼續往下看\n\n07:58.463 --> 08:13.469\n9月17號你剛才有說的有些其他機組這部分那我們再生能源不是很棒嗎這部分再生能源有出現狀況嗎再說一次再生能源的基礎再生能源就是如果是太陽能光電就是白天\n\n08:15.737 --> 08:40.564\n對非常好我們繼續往下看可是整個部分就跟大家講了所有包括興達電廠的1234號緊急備用跟備用全部開了還包括的是核二廠核三廠的緊急的清油備用基礎也全部開了才得到綠色的這個結果那表示什麼就是缺電啊可是缺電你們去還是成立一個綠色的燈飾站\n\n08:43.728 --> 08:49.653\n領口的領部基礎跟行囊的基礎都是故障的情況下整個特殊的狀況它是一個特殊狀況包圍紅那段時間都供電正常\n\n08:59.921 --> 09:20.718\n沒有任何缺電的問題事實上面我用資料會說話請重視你們資料所呈現的數據這部分所以9月17號備轉容量綠燈能夠撐起來的就是因為剛才說的核電廠的清油機組還包括興達電廠的燃油機組123號機備轉容量的緊急備轉的通通都開始用了才達到這個效果\n\n09:26.102 --> 09:54.627\n這就是實情啊所以這部分如果我們不知道這些情況的話我們根本就不知道台電在就是會出現到把該開的部分實行再告訴大家我們繼續再看到有些台電的最重要的任務就是要供電正常對但是還是必須要合法的情況你們用掩蓋的數據去讓大家以為是供電正常事實上不是的你們在掩蓋缺電的成果\n\n09:55.608 --> 10:09.170\n決定的結果我們繼續往下看在電網的部分我們看到的是現在如果要看過去的電力供需的部分的時候可以看到在目前10月7號只可以看到過去只看到\n\n10:10.664 --> 10:31.234\n8月31號最早的因為呢供應的資訊是說呢並沒有完整的平時完整資料是4月中旬才能夠更新所以我10月15號之後才能知道9月份的資料因此我剛才大家知道了9月9號清達電廠爆炸了9月17號我剛才舉的例子當中在\n\n10:33.254 --> 11:01.510\n在所謂的這個容量的部分的時候你就發現到它其實是是用電應該是吃緊的但是卻呈現一個綠燈狀況這就是出現了很大的問題資訊的不透明讓我們達到了一個沒辦法真正就落實到一個真正的政策的問題我們再繼續往下看這個地方我就要用到的其他國家的日本的日本大家看一下日本東京電力公司它裡面可以看到的是\n\n11:02.270 --> 11:26.355\n當然把今日的電力使用的預測率啊把需求的高峰跟使用率的高峰就把它呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看的時候他甚至可以馬上的可以看到在9月的時候的部分都可以呈現出來不像我剛才所說的目前我們在台電的官網當中你要查9月的資料在瞬間的或者是在容量的部分上是有問題的\n\n11:27.595 --> 11:49.027\n這部分我想要以他人知識來做一下我想過去的資料怎麼樣呈現我覺得我們可以來討論但是我跟委員報告就是說當初這個備轉容量率我們最主要的用意是說當天到底會不會供電正常這個是最關鍵的如果今天我們供電正常以後事實上就表示沒有問題了\n\n11:50.766 --> 12:10.598\n但是每一項的東西每一項的備轉都要等等你必須跟大家實行如果你都這樣做的話就會發生像京達的火力發電天然氣的防電掌你們在試運轉都刺上你們就等下運到一個加快馬力所出現的一個效果出來就爆炸了我們看怎麼呈現我們來討論所以我還跟你講說如果\n\n12:12.419 --> 12:30.813\n這邊我很高興說部長你有呈現到說這個資料其實你們都有嗎這些部分就是公開的透明呈現就是想跟部長院長也請教的是在於說這種公開的知情權是非常重要的因為你要訂定一個良好的有效率的能源發電政策就必須要這樣子出現\n\n12:32.038 --> 12:54.010\n謝謝委員的用心我們整天今天各機組的發電量他都會很詳細的列在上每天都有因為我們最關心的是當下到底會不會我們要了解是今天的狀況要有供電穩定那委員希望說你查詢到過去一段時間以來過去要長期的了解讓民眾了解正確的\n\n12:55.010 --> 13:23.139\n電力政策產能的呈現我需要的是大家知道不是我當立法委員我才要去問政才知道每一個人都可以關心到我的電力包括的是如果NVIDIA輝達他要來用電包括供電的需求每年都要成長到1.8度1.8%到2%的時候那你的用電怎麼不夠難怪各界的國外的投資者都會注意到說你用電現在已經呈現到是一個國安問題啦用電的能源國安的問題是這麼呈現的就是因為這樣子而來的\n\n13:24.019 --> 13:46.130\n所以這部分的需要因為過去你們只敢備轉容量率高這個部分都是個假象這都是假象開綠燈其實是不是正確的那你知道我就繼續往下去看了好當然我剛才聽到說院長你說你會說限期改善要台電的網站公開透明其實像其他該有的都放上去事實上可以嗎\n\n13:46.710 --> 14:03.418\n我說realtime都有但是就是過去的資料怎麼呈現那個我們看看他必須是要累積的部分在呈現的日本可以我們有離他更遠嗎我們是AI大國吧部長院長院長請你在這邊可以承諾嗎我們應該把這種公開透明的資訊查詢機制讓他更開公開透明\n\n14:06.860 --> 14:27.217\n好謝謝委員關心整個能源的政策如果能夠提供更精確而且有一段時間讓大家能夠做參考來比較的話我認為這也是我們開放政府資料治理應該做的事情我請台電能夠進行研究但是我們跟日本到底不是用同一個模組同一個軟體所以不可能完全一樣用我們的方式盡量把過去的資料讓\n\n14:27.978 --> 14:52.529\n報告委員好任何人可以公開來查詢什麼時候什麼時候今年年底應該可以吧其實你們之下都有吧只是什麼時候放上去而已嘛對不對好謝謝我們繼續往下看喔這邊我就是要詢問的是下面更重要的一個問題就是火力的主義機組轉備任務緊急的時候請問有沒有法源請問有沒有法源有哪一個法源\n\n14:54.624 --> 15:14.202\n是這個嗎環評承諾條件嗎空氣污染排放標準嗎是這些嗎空污法也有依據的沒有那個空污法也是從環境地方空污這邊去呈現出來了沒有直接的法律的依據沒有所以這部分您才包括\n\n15:15.223 --> 15:41.364\n剛才我們看到的核電廠的幾個清油機組也都是在用了沒有譬如說像那個興達燃煤這個一年當中可以緊急備用多少小時724個小時如果我記得沒錯的話請你知道這邊是依照電力設施的裡面的空氣污染排放標準是行政命令啊不是法啊那現在我們也會遵守啊\n\n15:42.365 --> 16:02.343\n他不是法他是更一級的規定而已我現在跟大家講的是尤其是這個部分的興達電廠裡面的緊急備用機組跟備用機組當中我們在台電的官網當中其實沒有真正看到資料而是在高雄市環保局專區資料裡面才有啊台電是\n\n16:06.306 --> 16:21.299\n台電是一個堂堂正正的國營企業為什麼是由地方政府來去決定他到底是一個是一個備用機組在什麼狀態的情況之下呢因為他們要同意我們才可以\n\n16:22.681 --> 16:51.420\n這個緊急備用基礎因為他要算在722小時之內所以他要累計計算是不是有超過超過的話重點是董院長您是學法律的應該知道像這邊我們都甚至跟他講一件事情當核電廠的研議他如果還要繼續發展的他都有一個核子設施反應器的管制法嘛對不對這部分都是法那如果你要你要涉及到的是\n\n16:52.681 --> 17:02.026\n精打火力電廠的部分有關研議的部分研議的部分他轉成緊急備轉基礎對不對是不是也應該要有一個\n\n17:03.254 --> 17:28.263\n法源依據呢?是法律的依據呢?要專法來決定呢?依照剛剛部長的答覆他現在我們即使是一個命令那我們也是完全遵守這個命令的內容所以一個備用機組何時該啟動何時必須啟動一個年當中他能夠啟動多少小時這個都是明明白白規定的很實的而且他有規定就是說在空污期間是不能運轉的我們也會遵守\n\n17:28.863 --> 17:33.674\n好這部分這就是要跟部長跟院長交換意見\n\n17:35.999 --> 18:01.121\n你們用的是環評的承諾條件還包括是空氣污染排放標準也許是在空氣污染法環境部長也上來了可是這麼涉及到我們的人民的健康的部分如果這個資訊沒有公開尤其沒有法律的依據甚至這個公告完全是由地方政府來決定的話經濟部長你不會是失職嗎你把這個權利讓地方政府去決定嗎\n\n18:01.761 --> 18:29.913\n所以我剛剛回答這個委員的想法是說這是我記得啦我記得應該是好像空污法之下包委員其實兩個一個是環評他們要興建的時候要通過環評的決定那他的承諾就變成是他一定要去照這個營運來遵守那空污法是相對的他如果是緊急備用機組就720個小時是空污法裡面規定的好但是最重要的是剛才的3號跟4號機是備用機組嗎\n\n18:32.683 --> 18:50.894\n對嘛商高市場是非常基礎那商高市場他必須到8%才用嘛對不對8%備轉容率在8%以下的時候才有可是剛才的我剛才說9月17號就不是嘛還在綠燈嘛他們其實任何一個台電運轉的時候前一天就要預估今天的備轉容率多少你說的是實際上執行的多少這兩個意義是不一樣的\n\n18:52.256 --> 19:13.015\n對所以我的才呈現出來我都要凸顯的我們現在台電的官網的用電資料並不是完全真正的實行你就把預測的部分要放進來了這樣是不對的才想說剛剛院長有承諾那就好了他的備轉就是希望說不要讓他降到安全數字以下所以他預估之後他認為我要提前作業這個沒有什麼不對\n\n19:14.870 --> 19:28.750\n終極目標在於穩定跟供電無虞你們這樣用預備的部分就是模糊大家的視聽的啦我跟你講這些部分我們因為部長承諾我們就必須再繼續再往下去看大家現在更重要想要就是針對的是\n\n19:31.013 --> 19:48.413\n院長你在做一個能源的一個行政院長嘛就在說非核家園政策我們知道看到的是有些的能源的再生能源的配比有事實上是有跳票嘛因為明年才要達到2020%對不對好那另外電力供需的部分的缺口也呈現喔包括這次的興達電廠的\n\n19:51.735 --> 20:00.153\n煤氣的部分也是就是因為他發生火災的他到明年才達到對不對但是還有供電的需求是不是也是一直到每年大概成長1.8\n\n20:02.154 --> 20:21.428\n以上的用電成長率對不對這是都是很大的一個需求喔還有排碳政策這部分國際趨勢我們看一下那政府呢他已經推動了2.0的這個政策是好事情但是呢想要跟的是院長你交換的意見是過去是R100可是這部分只是商業策略啊還有CFE\n\n20:22.989 --> 20:36.894\n24小時7天全時的武漢的這個一個國際政策部分啊這才是更重要因為他就是聯合國的而且是國際的企業當中最重要的部分的他在推動的你如果還要談到過去你只談到的\n\n20:38.001 --> 21:04.896\n在針對海灘政策你還只講到說再生能源事實上是不夠的我們再繼續往下看國際趨勢當中三十二兩百多個國家裡面三十二個國家是用核能核綠一起在這邊的那我現在就是提供的一個重點說如果深境造成這樣一個缺電的情況之下其實是一種政治的作為因為我們走向反而家園了這種情況您還是目前民進黨政府還是推向的一個政治的作為才讓到現在的一個我剛才所說的9月17號那個部分的\n\n21:05.756 --> 21:23.285\n這種所謂這種的缺電的吃緊的用電吃緊就是呈現出來的所以特別希望跟他講左院長尤其在823的公投決定之後希望說你過去的1.0的政策的通通都是在修修補補東補一個西補一個那希望是說\n\n21:24.586 --> 21:39.280\n您有一個政治家或者是一個對全國的全世界在能源上面的一個重點呢就是說以那個我能夠呈現出佐隆大2.0的部分全新的去做一個系統性的政策能源的一個規劃您覺得你的方向上是可以進行的嗎\n\n21:40.814 --> 22:00.536\n我們在新的能源政策總統指示的2.0裡面剛剛委員已經把它秀出來了那個就是現在國家很具體的一個方向發展多元的綠能深度節能科技儲能而且要加強電網韌性現在就是往這個方向在走我們也有政策我們也有經費我們也有執行的期程都有至於您說的非核家園\n\n22:01.477 --> 22:14.410\n但當初修法之後我們已經沒有那個時間上的限制但是我們認為傳統的核能對未來的子孫還是很大的這個負擔所以有新式的核能你沒有展上實質上的居修啊32國家裡面包括日本包括南韓\n\n22:16.892 --> 22:45.075\n包括的是美國這邊都已經往這邊去進行了美國的核能部門還可以幫助我們去解決到我們今天的貿易逆差的問題所以請你好好在想著看起來您是不想要負政治責任啦2.0也不想做啦我們就看看未來在明年的時候看看總統在政府這邊的2.0政策能不能出現如果沒有我真的覺得你要負起你的政治責任了好現在這部分能源部議題我們告一個段落我們現在繼續往下看在部分在請的是教育部教育的議題請教育部長\n\n22:47.163 --> 23:01.012\n教育部長教育議題上面我們看到的是一個教師荒這部分請問院長您對於這個教師荒會帶來什麼樣的影響您有什麼看法我們當然最近幾年一直在充實\n\n23:01.997 --> 23:29.609\n整個教育的經費讓他達到我們憲法上的一個大家過去的要求那也因為如此我們對教師的福利也持續的在做一些有效的增進我們也強化整個校園的教學的品質跟環境那對教師的任用我想教育部也一直在做多項的努力是不是請部長來說明好那當然我想問一下部長我就是也要請問鄭部長就在說您認為教師荒是什麼因素造成的\n\n23:30.848 --> 23:44.327\n我想感謝委員關心中小學老師確實因為少子化過去各縣市我進來的時候事實上幾年前大概各縣市因為擔心縣市的老師\n\n23:45.822 --> 24:07.953\n少子化以後減班所以老師要重新做一些所以你認為是少子化的影響而已嗎我是說這是一個原因當然另外一個是產業上的一些原因我們繼續再往下看因為時間上面有限你剛才講到少子化跟產業上面的需求是重要的不過我們看到的是\n\n24:09.534 --> 24:35.227\n暑假結束之前你們發了新聞稿當中說缺額本來是25號的時候2600人後來變成到1429人我們後來又變成說在開學前的時候僅剩下276人但是實際上面的情形我們看到了我自己在國教署的網站當中就看到是很多的缺額都還在這部分看起來是一個數字有美化都是可能把\n\n24:36.107 --> 25:02.562\n行政的這個責任教學的責任就給其他人去兼職了啦至少讓學生有做這可以考慮到是有這樣的情形那我們現在看到這個缺額這部分的都還有都還有這麼多齁這個情況實質上的缺額我們看到的是我自己都看到網站上到10月份都還在爭代理教師的這個或是正式教師的總共缺額是581名那現在怎麼樣解決這個問題呢跟委員報告全國中小學有超過20萬人\n\n25:03.854 --> 25:31.382\n那因為各縣市還是我剛才講為了他們自己各控管8%以8%來講這個銀額已經超過了81是非常少那我同意因為產業上的一個這個蓬勃的一個發展包含待遇所以有部分類科還有部分偏鄉的地方他確實在聘用老師是比較辛苦的那在這個8%的一個控管裡面\n\n25:32.723 --> 26:01.245\n你認為說這樣是可以的我就再繼續往下看去上個禮拜的時候其實全教總有提出五個字的訴求在五個訴求當中有部分我看到國教署也有在接見這部分的限時問題上面我想包括行政減量代理教師權益職務加急這部分還有校園單數的問題我上次也聽到您到辦公室來講單數的問題到年底或之前會解決對不對有一個方向校士會議我們會讓他能夠有一個更\n\n26:01.966 --> 26:26.322\n更好的一個這個整個這個運作的程序也就是說我們希望把爛數的這一塊能夠先取消能夠減少因為從我們過去真正能夠真正被進入到那些這個不是任教師的基本上他都是具名投訴的那我們以今年來看有1300多位大部分都是\n\n26:27.182 --> 26:53.389\n非居民也就是我們讓會非常多的一個部長你在很多的教師的努力之下抗議之下你有做這個方向學習我覺得這個是實在肯定的我想那不是教師的抗議是教育部本來我們在許多的這些相關法令我們也了解也跟地方做許多的座談了解老師跟校長親家長的一個聲音我們做滾動式的修正修法這邊是不是年底的時候要確定可以出來\n\n26:54.959 --> 27:18.867\n關於在校士會議在高中老師以下的這個這個部分我們年底一定會我們事實上現在已經有初步的一個修訂了一個另外一個很重要的問題院長教育的問題是國本真的要考慮到的是在9月28日出現的那非常多的民眾因為連師培生涯也不願意去再繼續留在教育界當後輩的老師的有沒有考慮到要做開國師會議教育的國師會議\n\n27:22.248 --> 27:36.522\n我想教育的一個國師會議如果它只是一個大敗敗那就看你的誠心誠意啦院長院長我想要請院長回答一下院長國師教育會議百年大計有沒有機會可能\n\n27:37.783 --> 27:56.507\n教育部如何跟地方政府一起跟民間的團體跟教育團體一起來商討一個現在這幾個問題解決的方式如果教育部能夠做這樣的工作我非常的支持但不必叫做什麼國事會議他只要能夠針對問題來解決就好就希望繼續再監督沒有到動搖國本的狀況您認為還是還沒有到動搖國本的狀況就對了是吧\n\n28:04.721 --> 28:11.964\n我們不會讓教育動搖那我現在請謝謝教育部長那我現在請李洋運動部長上台謝謝\n\n28:22.649 --> 28:39.158\n先請院長就先你回答一下好了啦這部分其實您請的李洋當部長我覺得是一個非常有遠見的一個做法啦這部分值得肯定那現在李洋部長來了就說部長您對於體育界你有六大具體措施您對體育界有什麼樣的改革規劃\n\n28:40.305 --> 28:58.978\n我們運動部最重要當然是全民運動落實多元平權以及永續發展的價值那當然我這邊要引用一下鄭麗君副院長我認為鄭麗君副院長說過步步都是文化部那我們認為步步都是運動部好所以就是需要很多步步都需要互相的融合\n\n28:59.798 --> 29:11.685\n合作嘛對不對好那這樣子請問院長您對於新上任這個里昂部長的期許還有運動界的改革方向像全民的運動這部分還有國際的方向你有沒有什麼樣的期許\n\n29:12.503 --> 29:32.098\n全民運動全民體育運動競技國際事務以及未來舉辦大型的以台灣元素的國際比賽以及適應運動適應體育等等都是李洋部長我們在第一次交換過意見當中他所提出的種種的想法我認為李部長一個最大的優點是他來自體育界食物界他有\n\n29:33.078 --> 29:56.854\n現役國手最好的經驗他知道我們的訓練中心該怎麼改革他知道現在單項協會該怎麼改革他知道怎麼樣訓練更年輕的下一輩的國家的體育好手他知道怎麼樣推動到整個社區教育跟著全民運動上面去而且另外一個重點是他沒有包袱我也不要給他任何的包袱我讓他盡量發揮他的想像的空間用新的觀念來帶領這個新的運動部\n\n29:58.971 --> 30:27.824\n好非常期待未來有繼續這樣的一個表現不過現在運動部的員還沒有徵補完那什麼時候會徵補完畢呢新成立一個部會都有這樣的一個過渡的時機那現在他已經徵補大概一半人接近到年底的話那個運動部有六成六成以上而已啊因為我們可以從各部調來我們可以外邊來招聘這個都需要有一點時間來討論但是主要的這幾個帶領運動部裡面的次長司長署長我們都已經訂\n\n30:32.247 --> 30:33.837\n好謝謝謝謝劉淑彬委員執行\n\n","segments":[{"start":7.369,"end":11.333,"text":"有請左院長麻煩請左院長備詢劉元豪好"},{"start":27.657,"end":45.343,"text":"今天呢來跟您討論一下台電的資訊用電的資訊那我們看到的是在您看過院長想請問一下您看過在台電的官網的用電資訊嗎我幾乎天天都會看今天的備轉容量率多少"},{"start":46.045,"end":63.858,"text":"非常好我們現在來看一下第一個看到這個是一天的用電資訊只有兩天內的曲線第二我們來看一下全天的各能源的用電的曲線只有當天有這個圖表這部分包括的是台電他最近台電他最不敢"},{"start":65.039,"end":93.074,"text":"貼的24小時的用電的曲線圖因為再生能源在只有24小時的量大概就只有10%而已我們再繼續往下看包括的是備轉的容量率這部分它時間比較多了有112到113年的3年曲線但是瞬間的部分也只能查到1.5個月前的部分的數據卻沒有每天的使用的高峰跟備轉容量率每天的低峰的數據"},{"start":94.435,"end":118.277,"text":"那部分我們看到這裡第四項我們看到是各機組當中的影響倍轉容量率的部分他只有每天的每小時的瞬間那這部分呢經濟部或者是台電他最喜歡是在中午的時候把資料PO出來因為那時候可以看到再生能源非常多的這個發電量就是太陽能源這邊我們再繼續往下看的時候我剛才"},{"start":119.237,"end":141.887,"text":"隨時都有 像我現在手上的就是15.26 今天的備轉容量率他沒有在中午才做 早上在做 晚上我現在沒有做 包括112年到114年我們現在把我剛剛講的部分這部分呈現出來沒有錯 我現在是其實我把它整理出來的那我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分等一下我要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的我現在再講講看"},{"start":143.348,"end":158.207,"text":"在這裡我們看到是把剛才我四項的資料都把它彙整起來的時候就得到這樣的資訊就是說台電的這個電網的官網的資訊揭露它其實是並就是兩天的當日的三年內的部分是一個"},{"start":159.308,"end":184.026,"text":"備轉容量率的部分像你剛才說的有到這個情況還有備轉的過去的用電資料是記錄到上個月例如說我今天用的我今天10月7號我實際上看到歷史性的記錄的完整的部分只看到今年的8月31號這部分就想要請問的這樣的一個台電官網資訊街道是否符合一個保障民眾基本知情權呢"},{"start":185.107,"end":204.859,"text":"請問院長他每天都有公佈啊你每天都有公佈歷史資料我記得是日間封是有好 沒關係因為你現在講片段資料我剛才呈現出來是不夠完整的這邊我們繼續往下看現在我們現在講的是一個9月16號到9月17、18號連續三天的用電封負載這部分你現在已經絕對查不到啦"},{"start":210.262,"end":223.076,"text":"那我們看到的是在9月16、17、18三天喔這個資訊你現在絕對是查不到在官網當中絕對現在是查不到那請問一下院長你知道9月17號的夜間尖峰的備轉容量率是多少嗎"},{"start":224.569,"end":239.616,"text":"9月17號 你應該不知道那當然我要去查一下 現在不可能知道部長知道嗎 郭部長你知道嗎好 我現在跟你講 我現在呈現出來就是三天的時候呢 黃色是供電吃緊 綠色是充電17號是充綠的"},{"start":241.837,"end":254.591,"text":"18號呢是吃緊的三天之內卻有一天的話是是一個充裕的情況那被轉容量率那天平常都是那三天的八十八十十點六一到六點一一你可以看到這實際上面的數據是這樣子好"},{"start":257.642,"end":285.474,"text":"我們繼續往下看這邊我們就想到這邊這有一個情況是因為三天的時間當中兩天是用電吃緊黃色一天是綠色是用電的一個是充裕的那我們就想問一下請問在這個情況之下你知道當天的被轉容量率在那天的用電情況是怎麼樣的嗎當天隨時隨地都有那個數據會出來你如果看手機也會顯現"},{"start":287.199,"end":304.586,"text":"沒有 那我們現在因為要查資料我們要做論證需求這是一般人要了解用電的需求狀況繼續往下看這一張圖看得很清楚這一張圖裡面是9月17號緊急跟備用機組的使用狀況大家可以看到是"},{"start":305.862,"end":306.603,"text":"因為那時候南部的興達機組出了問題"},{"start":328.828,"end":354.56,"text":"所以備用的機組就要啟動啊那這樣好玩喔 如果沒有問題都不用啟動部長你現在看看喔 9月9號發生新打對不對那可是9月16號的時候是吃緊的可是9月17號確實充裕的喔 9月18號又是吃緊的可是9月17號就特別 我們才想要來看看因為那時候林口的機組出了問題"},{"start":356.294,"end":377.152,"text":"對沒錯 但是更重要的是林口機組出去的問題可是核二核三廠的清油機組卻全開你知道嗎這邊全開 我現在只讓大家知道這個全開核電廠裡面的清油機組也全開了這是非常緊急需要的時候才開的因為林口電廠出了問題"},{"start":379.494,"end":403.12,"text":"供電正常我們就把它提升可是為什麼9月9月開始9月16、18確實吃緊的情況9月17確實出現到一個充裕的情況這是我們繼續再往下看9月9號的時候是興達出了問題那中間我們有些備用基礎是沒有問題但是我們現在看看興達的部分就是我現在想說的興達這邊您說的是興達他有"},{"start":406.701,"end":431.042,"text":"我們再看看興達的燃煤電廠喔3號4號這個是備用機組對不對可是你看看他發電的時間什麼時候開始的臨時 凌晨就開始啦所以請問發電機組興達電廠的燃煤機組是備用機組他什麼時候才可以開啊"},{"start":431.974,"end":448.231,"text":"就去備用的時候電力假如說我們要供電正常對 他都需要的是在需要在百分之八以下對不對可是你的燈是綠色的喔不要忘記喔你當天的燈是綠色的喔你的綠色你為什麼需要開呢如果是百分之八的話為什麼需要開勒"},{"start":449.392,"end":477.383,"text":"這就是大問題啊我們在另外看到是部長這是事實我就是要出現出來你不是講到實情我們繼續往下看燃煤機組跟天然氣有點不太一樣燃煤可能它的熱氣是比較強所以這邊是沒有錯燃煤機組就是需要燃煤機組就是需要在備轉容量率8的時候才會開嘛對不對可是你是綠燈喔10%以上為什麼要開呢這就是有問題的地方我們繼續往下看"},{"start":478.463,"end":493.469,"text":"9月17號你剛才有說的有些其他機組這部分那我們再生能源不是很棒嗎這部分再生能源有出現狀況嗎再說一次再生能源的基礎再生能源就是如果是太陽能光電就是白天"},{"start":495.737,"end":520.564,"text":"對 非常好 我們繼續往下看可是整個部分就跟大家講了所有包括興達電廠的1234號緊急備用跟備用全部開了還包括的是核二廠核三廠的緊急的清油備用基礎也全部開了才得到綠色的這個結果那表示什麼 就是缺電啊可是缺電你們去還是成立一個綠色的燈飾站"},{"start":523.728,"end":529.653,"text":"領口的領部基礎跟行囊的基礎都是故障的情況下整個特殊的狀況它是一個特殊狀況包圍紅那段時間都供電正常"},{"start":539.921,"end":560.718,"text":"沒有任何缺電的問題事實上面我用資料會說話請重視你們資料所呈現的數據這部分所以9月17號備轉容量綠燈能夠撐起來的就是因為剛才說的核電廠的清油機組還包括興達電廠的燃油機組123號機備轉容量的緊急備轉的通通都開始用了才達到這個效果"},{"start":566.102,"end":594.627,"text":"這就是實情啊所以這部分如果我們不知道這些情況的話我們根本就不知道台電在就是會出現到把該開的部分實行再告訴大家我們繼續再看到有些台電的最重要的任務就是要供電正常對 但是還是必須要合法的情況你們用掩蓋的數據去讓大家以為是供電正常事實上不是的你們在掩蓋缺電的成果"},{"start":595.608,"end":609.17,"text":"決定的結果我們繼續往下看在電網的部分我們看到的是現在如果要看過去的電力供需的部分的時候可以看到在目前10月7號只可以看到過去只看到"},{"start":610.664,"end":631.234,"text":"8月31號最早的因為呢供應的資訊是說呢並沒有完整的平時完整資料是4月中旬才能夠更新所以我10月15號之後才能知道9月份的資料因此我剛才大家知道了9月9號清達電廠爆炸了9月17號我剛才舉的例子當中在"},{"start":633.254,"end":661.51,"text":"在所謂的這個容量的部分的時候你就發現到它其實是是用電應該是吃緊的但是卻呈現一個綠燈狀況這就是出現了很大的問題資訊的不透明讓我們達到了一個沒辦法真正就落實到一個真正的政策的問題我們再繼續往下看這個地方我就要用到的其他國家的日本的日本大家看一下日本東京電力公司它裡面可以看到的是"},{"start":662.27,"end":686.355,"text":"當然把今日的電力使用的預測率啊把需求的高峰跟使用率的高峰就把它呈現出來那我們繼續再往下看的時候他甚至可以馬上的可以看到在9月的時候的部分都可以呈現出來不像我剛才所說的目前我們在台電的官網當中你要查9月的資料在瞬間的或者是在容量的部分上是有問題的"},{"start":687.595,"end":709.027,"text":"這部分我想要以他人知識來做一下我想過去的資料怎麼樣呈現我覺得我們可以來討論但是我跟委員報告就是說當初這個備轉容量率我們最主要的用意是說當天到底會不會供電正常這個是最關鍵的如果今天我們供電正常以後事實上就表示沒有問題了"},{"start":710.766,"end":730.598,"text":"但是每一項的東西每一項的備轉都要等等你必須跟大家實行如果你都這樣做的話就會發生像京達的火力發電天然氣的防電掌你們在試運轉都刺上你們就等下運到一個加快馬力所出現的一個效果出來就爆炸了我們看怎麼呈現我們來討論所以我還跟你講說如果"},{"start":732.419,"end":750.813,"text":"這邊我很高興說部長你有呈現到說這個資料其實你們都有嗎這些部分就是公開的透明呈現就是想跟部長院長也請教的是在於說這種公開的知情權是非常重要的因為你要訂定一個良好的有效率的能源發電政策就必須要這樣子出現"},{"start":752.038,"end":774.01,"text":"謝謝委員的用心我們整天今天各機組的發電量他都會很詳細的列在上每天都有因為我們最關心的是當下到底會不會我們要了解是今天的狀況要有供電穩定那委員希望說你查詢到過去一段時間以來過去要長期的了解讓民眾了解正確的"},{"start":775.01,"end":803.139,"text":"電力政策產能的呈現我需要的是大家知道不是我當立法委員我才要去問政才知道每一個人都可以關心到我的電力包括的是如果NVIDIA輝達他要來用電包括供電的需求每年都要成長到1.8度1.8%到2%的時候那你的用電怎麼不夠難怪各界的國外的投資者都會注意到說你用電現在已經呈現到是一個國安問題啦用電的能源國安的問題是這麼呈現的就是因為這樣子而來的"},{"start":804.019,"end":826.13,"text":"所以這部分的需要因為過去你們只敢備轉容量率高這個部分都是個假象這都是假象開綠燈其實是不是正確的那你知道我就繼續往下去看了好當然我剛才聽到說院長你說你會說限期改善要台電的網站公開透明其實像其他該有的都放上去事實上可以嗎"},{"start":826.71,"end":843.418,"text":"我說real time都有但是就是過去的資料怎麼呈現那個我們看看他必須是要累積的部分在呈現的日本可以 我們有離他更遠嗎我們是AI大國吧部長 院長 院長請你在這邊可以承諾嗎我們應該把這種公開透明的資訊查詢機制讓他更開 公開透明"},{"start":846.86,"end":867.217,"text":"好謝謝委員關心整個能源的政策如果能夠提供更精確而且有一段時間讓大家能夠做參考來比較的話我認為這也是我們開放政府資料治理應該做的事情我請台電能夠進行研究但是我們跟日本到底不是用同一個模組同一個軟體所以不可能完全一樣用我們的方式盡量把過去的資料讓"},{"start":867.978,"end":892.529,"text":"報告委員好 任何人可以公開來查詢什麼時候什麼時候今年年底應該可以吧其實你們之下都有吧只是什麼時候放上去而已嘛 對不對好 謝謝我們繼續往下看喔這邊我就是要詢問的是下面更重要的一個問題就是火力的主義機組轉備任務緊急的時候請問有沒有法源請問有沒有法源有 哪一個法源"},{"start":894.624,"end":914.202,"text":"是這個嗎 環評承諾條件嗎空氣污染排放標準嗎是這些嗎空污法也有依據的沒有 那個空污法也是從環境地方空污這邊去呈現出來了沒有直接的法律的依據 沒有所以這部分您才包括"},{"start":915.223,"end":941.364,"text":"剛才我們看到的核電廠的幾個清油機組也都是在用了沒有 譬如說像那個興達燃煤這個一年當中可以緊急備用多少小時 724個小時如果我記得沒錯的話請你知道這邊是依照電力設施的裡面的空氣污染排放標準是行政命令啊 不是法啊那現在我們也會遵守啊"},{"start":942.365,"end":962.343,"text":"他不是法 他是更一級的規定而已我現在跟大家講的是尤其是這個部分的興達電廠裡面的緊急備用機組跟備用機組當中我們在台電的官網當中其實沒有真正看到資料而是在高雄市環保局專區資料裡面才有啊台電是"},{"start":966.306,"end":981.299,"text":"台電是一個堂堂正正的國營企業為什麼是由地方政府來去決定他到底是一個是一個備用機組在什麼狀態的情況之下呢因為他們要同意我們才可以"},{"start":982.681,"end":1011.42,"text":"這個緊急備用基礎因為他要算在722小時之內所以他要累計計算是不是有超過超過的話重點是董院長您是學法律的應該知道像這邊我們都甚至跟他講一件事情當核電廠的研議他如果還要繼續發展的他都有一個核子設施反應器的管制法嘛對不對這部分都是法那如果你要你要涉及到的是"},{"start":1012.681,"end":1022.026,"text":"精打火力電廠的部分有關研議的部分研議的部分他轉成緊急備轉基礎對不對是不是也應該要有一個"},{"start":1023.254,"end":1048.263,"text":"法源依據呢?是法律的依據呢?要專法來決定呢?依照剛剛部長的答覆他現在我們即使是一個命令那我們也是完全遵守這個命令的內容所以一個備用機組何時該啟動何時必須啟動一個年當中他能夠啟動多少小時這個都是明明白白規定的很實的而且他有規定就是說在空污期間是不能運轉的我們也會遵守"},{"start":1048.863,"end":1053.674,"text":"好 這部分這就是要跟部長跟院長交換意見"},{"start":1055.999,"end":1081.121,"text":"你們用的是環評的承諾條件還包括是空氣污染排放標準也許是在空氣污染法環境部長也上來了可是這麼涉及到我們的人民的健康的部分如果這個資訊沒有公開尤其沒有法律的依據甚至這個公告完全是由地方政府來決定的話經濟部長你不會是失職嗎你把這個權利讓地方政府去決定嗎"},{"start":1081.761,"end":1109.913,"text":"所以我剛剛回答這個委員的想法是說這是我記得啦我記得應該是好像空污法之下包委員其實兩個一個是環評他們要興建的時候要通過環評的決定那他的承諾就變成是他一定要去照這個營運來遵守那空污法是相對的他如果是緊急備用機組就720個小時是空污法裡面規定的好 但是最重要的是剛才的3號跟4號機是備用機組嗎"},{"start":1112.683,"end":1130.894,"text":"對嘛 商高市場是非常基礎那商高市場他必須到8%才用嘛 對不對8% 備轉容率在8%以下的時候才有可是剛才的 我剛才說9月17號就不是嘛還在綠燈嘛他們其實任何一個台電運轉的時候前一天就要預估今天的備轉容率多少你說的是實際上執行的多少這兩個意義是不一樣的"},{"start":1132.256,"end":1153.015,"text":"對 所以我的才呈現出來我都要凸顯的我們現在台電的官網的用電資料並不是完全真正的實行你就把預測的部分要放進來了這樣是不對的才想說剛剛院長有承諾那就好了他的備轉就是希望說不要讓他降到安全數字以下所以他預估之後他認為我要提前作業這個沒有什麼不對"},{"start":1154.87,"end":1168.75,"text":"終極目標在於穩定跟供電無虞你們這樣用預備的部分就是模糊大家的視聽的啦我跟你講這些部分我們因為部長承諾我們就必須再繼續再往下去看大家現在更重要想要就是針對的是"},{"start":1171.013,"end":1188.413,"text":"院長你在做一個能源的一個行政院長嘛就在說非核家園政策我們知道看到的是有些的能源的再生能源的配比有事實上是有跳票嘛因為明年才要達到2020%對不對好那另外電力供需的部分的缺口也呈現喔包括這次的興達電廠的"},{"start":1191.735,"end":1200.153,"text":"煤氣的部分也是就是因為他發生火災的他到明年才達到對不對但是還有供電的需求是不是也是一直到每年大概成長1.8"},{"start":1202.154,"end":1221.428,"text":"以上的用電成長率對不對這是都是很大的一個需求喔還有排碳政策這部分國際趨勢我們看一下那政府呢他已經推動了2.0的這個政策是好事情但是呢想要跟的是院長你交換的意見是過去是R100可是這部分只是商業策略啊還有CFE"},{"start":1222.989,"end":1236.894,"text":"24小時7天全時的武漢的這個一個國際政策部分啊這才是更重要因為他就是聯合國的而且是國際的企業當中最重要的部分的他在推動的你如果還要談到過去你只談到的"},{"start":1238.001,"end":1264.896,"text":"在針對海灘政策你還只講到說再生能源事實上是不夠的我們再繼續往下看國際趨勢當中三十二兩百多個國家裡面三十二個國家是用核能 核綠一起在這邊的那我現在就是提供的一個重點說如果深境造成這樣一個缺電的情況之下其實是一種政治的作為因為我們走向反而家園了這種情況您還是目前民進黨政府還是推向的一個政治的作為才讓到現在的一個我剛才所說的9月17號那個部分的"},{"start":1265.756,"end":1283.285,"text":"這種所謂這種的缺電的吃緊的用電吃緊就是呈現出來的所以特別希望跟他講左院長尤其在823的公投決定之後希望說你過去的1.0的政策的通通都是在修修補補東補一個西補一個那希望是說"},{"start":1284.586,"end":1299.28,"text":"您有一個政治家或者是一個對全國的全世界在能源上面的一個重點呢就是說以那個我能夠呈現出佐隆大2.0的部分全新的去做一個系統性的政策能源的一個規劃您覺得你的方向上是可以進行的嗎"},{"start":1300.814,"end":1320.536,"text":"我們在新的能源政策總統指示的2.0裡面剛剛委員已經把它秀出來了那個就是現在國家很具體的一個方向發展多元的綠能深度節能 科技儲能而且要加強電網韌性現在就是往這個方向在走我們也有政策 我們也有經費我們也有執行的期程都有至於您說的非核家園"},{"start":1321.477,"end":1334.41,"text":"但當初修法之後我們已經沒有那個時間上的限制但是我們認為傳統的核能對未來的子孫還是很大的這個負擔所以有新式的核能你沒有展上實質上的居修啊32國家裡面包括日本包括南韓"},{"start":1336.892,"end":1365.075,"text":"包括的是美國這邊都已經往這邊去進行了美國的核能部門還可以幫助我們去解決到我們今天的貿易逆差的問題所以請你好好在想著看起來您是不想要負政治責任啦2.0也不想做啦我們就看看未來在明年的時候看看總統在政府這邊的2.0政策能不能出現如果沒有我真的覺得你要負起你的政治責任了好現在這部分能源部議題我們告一個段落我們現在繼續往下看在部分在請的是教育部教育的議題請教育部長"},{"start":1367.163,"end":1381.012,"text":"教育部長教育議題上面我們看到的是一個教師荒這部分請問院長您對於這個教師荒會帶來什麼樣的影響您有什麼看法我們當然最近幾年一直在充實"},{"start":1381.997,"end":1409.609,"text":"整個教育的經費讓他達到我們憲法上的一個大家過去的要求那也因為如此我們對教師的福利也持續的在做一些有效的增進我們也強化整個校園的教學的品質跟環境那對教師的任用我想教育部也一直在做多項的努力是不是請部長來說明好 那當然我想問一下部長我就是也要請問鄭部長就在說您認為教師荒是什麼因素造成的"},{"start":1410.848,"end":1424.327,"text":"我想感謝委員關心中小學老師確實因為少子化過去各縣市我進來的時候事實上幾年前大概各縣市因為擔心縣市的老師"},{"start":1425.822,"end":1447.953,"text":"少子化以後減班所以老師要重新做一些所以你認為是少子化的影響而已嗎我是說這是一個原因當然另外一個是產業上的一些原因我們繼續再往下看因為時間上面有限你剛才講到少子化跟產業上面的需求是重要的不過我們看到的是"},{"start":1449.534,"end":1475.227,"text":"暑假結束之前你們發了新聞稿當中說缺額本來是25號的時候2600人後來變成到1429人我們後來又變成說在開學前的時候僅剩下276人但是實際上面的情形我們看到了我自己在國教署的網站當中就看到是很多的缺額都還在這部分看起來是一個數字有美化都是可能把"},{"start":1476.107,"end":1502.562,"text":"行政的這個責任教學的責任就給其他人去兼職了啦至少讓學生有做這可以考慮到是有這樣的情形那我們現在看到這個缺額這部分的都還有都還有這麼多齁這個情況實質上的缺額我們看到的是我自己都看到網站上到10月份都還在爭代理教師的這個或是正式教師的總共缺額是581名那現在怎麼樣解決這個問題呢跟委員報告全國中小學有超過20萬人"},{"start":1503.854,"end":1531.382,"text":"那因為各縣市還是我剛才講為了他們自己各控管8%以8%來講這個銀額已經超過了81是非常少那我同意因為產業上的一個這個蓬勃的一個發展包含待遇所以有部分類科還有部分偏鄉的地方他確實在聘用老師是比較辛苦的那在這個8%的一個控管裡面"},{"start":1532.723,"end":1561.245,"text":"你認為說這樣是可以的我就再繼續往下看去上個禮拜的時候其實全教總有提出五個字的訴求在五個訴求當中有部分我看到國教署也有在接見這部分的限時問題上面我想包括行政減量代理教師權益職務加急這部分還有校園單數的問題我上次也聽到您到辦公室來講單數的問題到年底或之前會解決對不對有一個方向校士會議我們會讓他能夠有一個更"},{"start":1561.966,"end":1586.322,"text":"更好的一個這個整個這個運作的程序也就是說我們希望把爛數的這一塊能夠先取消能夠減少因為從我們過去真正能夠真正被進入到那些這個不是任教師的基本上他都是具名投訴的那我們以今年來看有1300多位大部分都是"},{"start":1587.182,"end":1613.389,"text":"非居民 也就是我們讓會非常多的一個部長 你在很多的教師的努力之下 抗議之下你有做這個方向學習我覺得這個是實在肯定的我想那不是教師的抗議是教育部本來我們在許多的這些相關法令我們也了解 也跟地方做許多的座談了解老師跟校長親家長的一個聲音我們做滾動式的修正修法這邊是不是年底的時候要確定可以出來"},{"start":1614.959,"end":1638.867,"text":"關於在校士會議在高中老師以下的這個這個部分我們年底一定會我們事實上現在已經有初步的一個修訂了一個另外一個很重要的問題院長教育的問題是國本真的要考慮到的是在9月28日出現的那非常多的民眾因為連師培生涯也不願意去再繼續留在教育界當後輩的老師的有沒有考慮到要做開國師會議教育的國師會議"},{"start":1642.248,"end":1656.522,"text":"我想教育的一個國師會議如果它只是一個大敗敗 那就看你的誠心誠意啦院長院長 我想要請院長回答一下院長 國師教育會議百年大計有沒有機會可能"},{"start":1657.783,"end":1676.507,"text":"教育部如何跟地方政府一起跟民間的團體跟教育團體一起來商討一個現在這幾個問題解決的方式如果教育部能夠做這樣的工作我非常的支持但不必叫做什麼國事會議他只要能夠針對問題來解決就好就希望繼續再監督沒有到動搖國本的狀況您認為還是還沒有到動搖國本的狀況就對了是吧"},{"start":1684.721,"end":1691.964,"text":"我們不會讓教育動搖那我現在請 謝謝教育部長那我現在請李洋運動部長上台 謝謝"},{"start":1702.649,"end":1719.158,"text":"先請院長就先你回答一下好了啦這部分其實您請的李洋當部長我覺得是一個非常有遠見的一個做法啦這部分值得肯定那現在李洋部長來了就說部長您對於體育界你有六大具體措施您對體育界有什麼樣的改革規劃"},{"start":1720.305,"end":1738.978,"text":"我們運動部最重要當然是全民運動落實多元平權以及永續發展的價值那當然我這邊要引用一下鄭麗君副院長我認為鄭麗君副院長說過步步都是文化部那我們認為步步都是運動部好 所以就是需要很多步步都需要互相的融合"},{"start":1739.798,"end":1751.685,"text":"合作嘛對不對好那這樣子請問院長您對於新上任這個里昂部長的期許還有運動界的改革方向像全民的運動這部分還有國際的方向你有沒有什麼樣的期許"},{"start":1752.503,"end":1772.098,"text":"全民運動全民體育運動競技國際事務以及未來舉辦大型的以台灣元素的國際比賽以及適應運動適應體育等等都是李洋部長我們在第一次交換過意見當中他所提出的種種的想法我認為李部長一個最大的優點是他來自體育界食物界他有"},{"start":1773.078,"end":1796.854,"text":"現役國手最好的經驗他知道我們的訓練中心該怎麼改革他知道現在單項協會該怎麼改革他知道怎麼樣訓練更年輕的下一輩的國家的體育好手他知道怎麼樣推動到整個社區教育跟著全民運動上面去而且另外一個重點是他沒有包袱我也不要給他任何的包袱我讓他盡量發揮他的想像的空間用新的觀念來帶領這個新的運動部"},{"start":1798.971,"end":1827.824,"text":"好 非常期待未來有繼續這樣的一個表現不過現在運動部的員還沒有徵補完那什麼時候會徵補完畢呢新成立一個部會都有這樣的一個過渡的時機那現在他已經徵補大概一半人接近到年底的話那個運動部有六成六成以上而已啊因為我們可以從各部調來我們可以外邊來招聘這個都需要有一點時間來討論但是主要的這幾個帶領運動部裡面的次長 司長 署長我們都已經訂"},{"start":1832.247,"end":1833.837,"text":"好謝謝 謝謝劉淑彬委員執行"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":20,"blocks":[["劉委員書彬：（14時30分）有請卓院長。"],["主席：麻煩請卓院長備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：劉委員好。"],["劉委員書彬：好。今天來跟您討論一下台電的用電資訊，想請問院長，您看過台電官網上的用電資訊嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我幾乎天天都會看今天的備轉容量率是多少。"],["劉委員書彬：非常好！那我們現在來看一下，第一個看到是一天的用電資訊，只有兩天內的曲線。第二個我們來看一下，全天各能源的用電曲線只有當天有這個圖表，這部分包括了台電最不敢貼的24小時用電曲線圖，因為再生能源24小時的量大概就只有10%而已。我們再繼續往下看，備轉容量率這部分的時間比較多了，有112年到113年的三年曲線，但是瞬間的部分也只能查到1.5個月前這個部分的數據，卻沒有每天使用的高峰跟備轉容量率每天低峰的數據。第四項我們看到的是各機組當中影響備轉容量率的部分，只有每小時的瞬間，這部分經濟部或者是台電最喜歡在中午的時候把資料po出來，因為那時候可以看到再生能源非常多的發電量，就是太陽能能源的部分。我們再繼續往下看，我剛才……"],["龔部長明鑫：隨時都有。"],["卓院長榮泰：隨時都有，像我現在手上的就是今天的備轉容量率15.26%，他沒有中午才做，是早上在做，晚上都會比較低一點。"],["劉委員書彬：對，沒有錯，包括112年到114年，我現在是把我剛剛講的部分呈現出來，沒有錯！其實我把它整理出來了。我們現在看看剛才所呈現出來的部分，等一下我還要讓你看到日本的情況是每次都可以查到的。在這裡我們看到的是，如果把剛才那四項資料都彙整起來之後，就會得到這樣的資訊，台電官網的資訊揭露其實有兩天的、當日的，三年內的部分是備轉容量率的部分，像你剛才說有這個情況，還有備轉過去的用電資料是記錄到上個月，例如說，今天是10月7日，實際上歷史性紀錄的完整部分只看到今年的8月31日，我想要請問院長，台電官網這樣的資訊揭露是否符合保障民眾基本知情權呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：它每天都會公布，歷史資料……"],["劉委員書彬：你每天都有公布？好！"],["龔部長明鑫：歷史資料的部分，我記得日尖峰是有……"],["劉委員書彬：好，沒關係！因為你現在講片段資料，我剛才要呈現出來的是不夠完整啦！我們繼續往下看，我現在要講的是9月16日到17、18日連續三天的用電尖峰負載，這部分你現在絕對查不到啦！我們看到的是，在9月16日、17日18日三天喔！這個資訊現在你在官網當中絕對是查不到，請問院長知道9月17日夜間尖峰的備轉容量率是多少嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：9月17日？"],["劉委員書彬：你應該不知道。"],["卓院長榮泰：那當然我要去查一下，現在不可能知道。"],["劉委員書彬：對，但是我現在問，部長知道嗎？龔部長你知道嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：要查、要查。"],["劉委員書彬：好，我現在跟你講，我現在呈現出來就是，三天的時候……"],["龔部長明鑫：當天才會公布。"],["劉委員書彬：黃色是供電吃緊，綠色是充裕的，所以17日是充裕的，18日是吃緊的，三天之內只有一天是充裕的情況，那三天的備轉容納率是8.48%、10.61%至6.11%，你可以看到實際上面的數據是這樣子。好，我們繼續往下看，我們就想到這邊有一個情況是，因為三天的時間當中，兩天是用電吃緊，呈現黃色，一天是綠色，表示用電充裕。我就想問一下，請問在這個情況之下，你知道當天的備轉容量率，那天的用電情況是怎麼樣嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：當天隨時隨地都會有數據出來，你如果有看手機也會顯現。"],["劉委員書彬：沒有。因為我們有問政需求，所以要查資料，甚至一般人也想要了解用電的需求狀況。看清楚這張圖，這張圖裡面是9月17號緊急跟備用機組的使用狀況，大家可以看到，除了離島之外，因為要靠輕油發電，沒有錯，可是臺中1號到4號機的輕油全開，重點是核二、核三的輕油機組也全開了，您知道嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：我知道。"],["劉委員書彬：您知道？"],["龔部長明鑫：知道，因為那時候南部的興達機組出了問題。"],["劉委員書彬：對，可是前一天……"],["龔部長明鑫：所以備用的機組就要啟動。"],["劉委員書彬：那這樣好玩囉！"],["龔部長明鑫：如果沒有問題都不用啟動。"],["劉委員書彬：部長，你現在看看，9月9號興達發生意外，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["劉委員書彬：雖然9月16號是吃緊的，可是9月17號卻是充裕的，9月18號又是吃緊的。你剛才講的沒錯，所以我們才想要特別來看看9月17號。"],["龔部長明鑫：因為那時候林口的機組出了問題。"],["劉委員書彬：對，沒錯，更重要的是林口機組出現了問題，可是核二、核三廠的輕油機組卻全開，你知道嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，出現了問題，我們可以備用的就趕快……"],["劉委員書彬：這邊全開，我現在只是讓大家知道這邊也全開。核電廠裡面的輕油機組也全開了，這是非常緊急需要的時候才開的。"],["龔部長明鑫：對，因為林口電廠出了問題，為了供電正常，所以我們就把它提升。"],["劉委員書彬：對，為什麼9月16、18號是吃緊的情況，9月17號卻出現充裕的情況？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為9月9號是興達出了問題，中間我們有一個備用機組是沒有問題的，但是後來林口……"],["劉委員書彬：我們看看興達的部分就是我現在想說的，您說的是興達有……我們再看看興達燃煤電廠……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，舊的燃煤。"],["劉委員書彬：3號、4號是備用機組，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["劉委員書彬：可是你看看它發電的時間是什麼時候開始的？零時，凌晨就開始啦！請問興達電廠的燃煤機組是備用機組，什麼時候才可以開？"],["龔部長明鑫：備用的時候，假如我們要供電正常，希望它開……"],["劉委員書彬：對，需要在8%以下，對不對？可是你的燈是綠色的，不要忘記！當天的燈是綠色的，既然是綠色，為什麼需要開呢？如果是8%的話，為什麼需要開？這就是大問題啊！我們再另外看到是……"],["龔部長明鑫：因為燃煤的機組……"],["劉委員書彬：部長，這是事實，我就是要凸顯出來，你講的不是實情。"],["龔部長明鑫：燃煤機組跟天然氣有點不太一樣，燃煤的熱機可能比較久，沒有辦法像天然氣一下子……"],["劉委員書彬：沒有錯。燃煤機組就是需要在備轉容量率低於8%的時候才會開，對不對？可是你是綠燈、10%以上，為什麼要開呢？這就是有問題的地方。你剛才有說9月17號有其他機組……我們的再生能源不是很棒嗎？這部分再生能源有出現狀況嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：你再說一次。"],["劉委員書彬：再生能源的機組。"],["龔部長明鑫：關於再生能源，如果是太陽能光電就是白天非常充分、沒有問題。"],["劉委員書彬：對，非常好。可是整個部分就跟大家講了，包括興達電廠的1、2、3、4號機，緊急備用跟備用全部開了，還包括核二廠、核三廠的緊急輕油備用機組也全部開了，才得到綠色的這個結果，那表示什麼？就是缺電啊！可是缺電，你們卻還是呈現綠色的燈……"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有缺電，因為那個是林口的兩部機組跟興達的機組都故障的情況下，才產生的特殊狀況。"],["劉委員書彬：部長，那就是您的問題，這個部分因為沒有呈現實情……"],["龔部長明鑫：這是一個特殊狀況。"],["劉委員書彬：因為不是24小時呈現備轉容量率有多少，才會出現這個問題。"],["龔部長明鑫：我們那段時間都供電正常，沒有任何缺電的問題，完全沒有！"],["劉委員書彬：事實上，資料會說話，請重視你們的資料所呈現的數據。9月17號備轉容量率呈現綠燈，能夠撐起來就是因為剛才說的核電廠輕油機組，還包括興達電廠燃油機組1、2、3號機的備轉、緊急容量通通都開始用了，才達到這個效果，這是實情啊！所以這部分，如果我們不知道這些情況的話，我們根本就不知道台電就是會出現到把該開的部分之實情告訴大家，我們繼續再看到最重要的部分……"],["龔部長明鑫：台電最重要的任務就是要供電正常，所以就是說……"],["劉委員書彬：對，但是還是必須要合法的情況。"],["龔部長明鑫：它是合法的。"],["劉委員書彬：你們用掩蓋的數據去讓大家以為是供電正常，事實上不是的，你們在掩蓋缺電的結果。"],["龔部長明鑫：這都合法的、都合法的。"],["劉委員書彬：我們繼續往下看，在電網的部分，我們看到的是，如果看過去電力供需的部分時可以看到，目前10月7號只可以看到過去8月31號是最早的，因為它供應的資訊是說並沒有平時完整的資料，是次月中旬才能夠更新，所以我10月15號之後才能知道9月份的資料。因此，剛才大家知道了，9月9號興達電廠爆炸了，9月17號，我剛剛所舉的例子當中，在所謂容量的部分，你就發現到其實用電應該是吃緊的，但是卻呈現一個綠燈狀況，這就是出現了很大的問題，資訊的不透明讓我們沒辦法真正去落實一個政策。","我們再繼續往下看，這個地方我就要用到其他國家──日本，大家看一下日本東京電力公司，它裡面可以看到的它把今日的電力使用預測率、需求的高峰跟使用率的高峰把它呈現出來。我們繼續再往下看，它甚至馬上可以看到，在9月的部分都可以呈現出來，不像我剛才所說的，目前我們在台電的官網當中，你要查9月的資料，在瞬間的或者是在容量的部分是有問題的，這部分我想要以他人之師來做一下……"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，我想過去的資料怎麼樣呈現，我覺得我們可以來討論啦！但是我跟委員報告，當初這個備轉容量率，我們最主要的用意是說當天到底會不會供電正常，這個是最關鍵的，如果今天我們供電正常以後，事實上就表示沒有問題了，所以它變成一個歷史。"],["劉委員書彬：但是每一項的東西、每一項的備轉容量等等，你必須給大家實情，如果你都這樣做的話就會發生像興達的火力發電、天然氣發電廠，你們在試運轉中，事實上就等於運到一個加快馬力所呈現的效果出來，就爆炸了。"],["龔部長明鑫：報告委員，歷史資料看怎麼呈現，我們來討論。"],["劉委員書彬：對，所以我才跟你講說，如果……這邊我很高興部長你有呈現到……這個資料其實你們都有嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：對、對、對。"],["劉委員書彬：這些部分就是公開的透明呈現，我也想跟部長、院長請教的是在於，這種公開的知情權是非常重要的。"],["卓院長榮泰：好。"],["劉委員書彬：因為你要訂定一個良好的、有效率的能源發電政策就必須要這樣子呈現。"],["龔部長明鑫：可以、可以。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員的用心，我們整天……今天各機組的發電量，它都會很詳細地列在上面，每天都有。"],["龔部長明鑫：都有、都有，是realtime的，因為我們最關心的是當下到底會不會供電正常，realtime。"],["劉委員書彬：你那個是……過去的那部分沒辦法馬上查詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：我們要了解的是今天的狀況，要有供電的穩定，委員希望可以查詢到過去一段時間以來……"],["龔部長明鑫：對，過去的歷史，怎樣能夠……"],["劉委員書彬：過去要長期的了解，讓民眾了解，正確的電力政策才能夠呈現，我需要的是……不是我當立法委員要去問政府才知道，每個人都可以關心到電力，包括如果NVIDIA輝達要來用電，包括用電的需求，每年都要成長1.8%到2%的時候，你的用電怎麼不夠？難怪各界的、國外的投資者都會注意到你的用電現在已經呈現一個國安問題啦，用電的能源、國安的問題是這麼呈現，就是因為這樣子而來的，所以這部分的需要，因為過去你們只敢說備轉容量率高，這個部分都是一個假象、這都是假象，開綠燈其實不是正確的，你知道，我就繼續往下去看了。","當然我剛才也聽到院長你說會限期改善，要台電的網站公開透明的機制，像其他該有的都放上去，是這樣子，可以嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：對，因為我說realtime都有，但就是過去的資料怎麼呈現，那個我們看看怎樣來呈現。"],["劉委員書彬：它必須是要累積的部分來呈現，日本可以，我們有比它更遠嗎？我們是AI大國吧？"],["龔部長明鑫：OK、OK！"],["劉委員書彬：院長，請你在這邊可以承諾嗎？我們應該把這種公開透明資訊的查詢機制，讓它更公開透明。"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員關心整個能源的政策，如果能夠提供更精確而且有一段時間讓大家能夠做參考來比較的話，我認為這也是我們開放政府資料治理應該做的事情。我請台電能夠儘速研究，但是我們跟日本到底不是用同一個模組、同一個軟體，所以不可能完全一樣，用我們的方式儘量把過去的資料讓委員也好，或是任何人可以公開來查詢。"],["劉委員書彬：什麼時候？今年年底應該可以吧！其實你們資料都有，只是什麼時候放上去而已，對不對？"],["龔部長明鑫：好的。"],["劉委員書彬：謝謝，我們繼續往下看，我要詢問的是更重要的一個問題，就是火力的除役機組轉緊急備用機組，請問有沒有法源？"],["龔部長明鑫：有啊，有法源啊！"],["劉委員書彬：有？哪一個法源？是環評承諾條件嗎？是空氣污染排放標準嗎？是這些嗎？"],["龔部長明鑫：空污法也有依據的。"],["劉委員書彬：沒有、沒有，空污法也是從環境機關空污這邊去呈現出來的，沒有直接的法律依據，沒有！包括剛才我們看到的核電廠的幾個輕油機組也都在用了，這些部分……"],["龔部長明鑫：沒有，比如像興達燃煤一年當中可以緊急備用720個小時，如果我記得沒錯的話，它是有一些規範。"],["劉委員書彬：部長，你要知道這些是依照電力設施空氣污染排放標準，它是行政命令，不是法啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：行政命令我們也會遵守啊！我們也一定會遵守。"],["劉委員書彬：它不是法，它是更次一級的規定而已。"],["龔部長明鑫：但是我們一定會遵守。"],["劉委員書彬：我現在跟大家講的是這個部分，尤其興達電廠裡面的緊急備用機組和備用機組的運轉資訊，我們在台電的官網當中，其實沒有真正看到資料，而是在高雄市環保局專區資料裡面才有啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：是啊，這個我們要啟動或是要……"],["劉委員書彬：台電是一個堂堂正正的國營企業，為什麼是由地方政府來決定備用機組到底在什麼狀態之下要啟動呢？"],["龔部長明鑫：因為他們要同意，我們才可以啟動這個緊急備用機組，因為他要算在720小時之內，所以他要累計計算是不是有超過，超過的話就是我們……"],["劉委員書彬：卓院長您是學法律的，您應該知道，在這邊我們所講的一件事情，當核電廠的延役如果還要繼續發展的話，都有一個核子設施反應器的管制法嘛，對不對？這部分都是法啊！如果你要涉及到的是興達火力電廠延役的部分轉成緊急備轉機組，是不是也應該要有一個法源依據呢？是不是要有法律依據呢？是不是要有專法來決定呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：依照剛剛部長的答復，即使它現在是一個命令，那我們也是完全遵守這個命令的內容，所以一個備用機組何時該啟動、何時必須啟動、一年當中它能夠啟動多少小時，這個都是明明白白規定得很死的。"],["龔部長明鑫：而且它有規定在空污期間是不能運轉的，我們也會遵守。"],["劉委員書彬：好，這部分就是要跟部長及院長交換意見，你們用的是環評的承諾條件，還包括空氣污染排放標準，也許是在空氣污染法……"],["龔部長明鑫：是空氣污染法沒有錯。"],["劉委員書彬：現在環境部長也上來了，可是這個涉及到我們人民健康的部分，如果這個資訊沒有公開，尤其沒有法律的依據，甚至這個公告完全是由地方政府來決定的話，經濟部長你不會是失職嗎？你把這個權力讓地方政府去決定了啊！"],["龔部長明鑫：所以我剛剛回答……委員的想法是說……這件事情我記得，我記得好像應該是在空污法之下。"],["卓院長榮泰：請彭部長來說明。"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實有兩個部分，一個是環評，他們要興建的時候要通過環評的決定，那他的承諾就變成是他一定要照這個營運來遵守。而空污法是相對的，他如果是緊急備用機組，那720個小時是空污法裡面規定的。"],["劉委員書彬：好，但最重要的是剛才所說的三號跟四號機是備用機組嘛！"],["龔部長明鑫：對。"],["劉委員書彬：對嘛，三號、四號是備用機組，那三號、四號必須是備轉容量率在8%以下的時候才啟動，可是我剛才說的9月17號就不是嘛，還在綠燈嘛！"],["彭部長啓明：報告委員，其實任何一個台電機組運轉的時候，前一天就要預估今天的備轉容量率多少，你說的是實際上執行的多少，這兩個意義是不一樣的。"],["劉委員書彬：對，所以我才呈現出來、我所要凸顯的是現在台電官網的用電資料並不是完全真正的實行，你又把預測的部分要放進來了，這樣是不對的，不過剛才院長已經有承諾那就好了。"],["卓院長榮泰：這沒有什麼不對，他的備轉就是希望不要讓它降到安全數字以下，所以他預估之後，他認為要提前作業，這個沒有什麼不對，終極目標在於穩定跟供電無虞。"],["劉委員書彬：你們這樣子用預備的方式，就是在模糊大家的視聽了。"],["卓院長榮泰：不會、不會，都很清楚。"],["劉委員書彬：我跟你講，因為剛剛部長有承諾，我們就必須繼續再往下看。現在更重要的是，院長作為行政院院長，針對非核家園政策，我們看到有些再生能源的配比事實上是跳票的，因為明年才會達到20%，對不對？好。另外，電力供需的部分，缺口也呈現了，包括這次興達電廠發生火災，煤氣的部分明年才達得到，對不對？但是供電的需求每年大概有1.8%以上的成長率，對不對？這些都是很大的需求。","還有排碳政策的部分，我們看一下國際趨勢，賴政府已經先推動2.0的政策，這是好事情，但是我想跟院長交換的意見是，過去是RE100，可是這部分只是商業策略，還有CFE 24/7全時無碳的國際政策，這才是更重要的，因為它是聯合國的，而且是國際企業的推動當中最重要的部分，你如果還像過去一樣，談到排碳政策只想到再生能源，事實上是不夠的。","我們再繼續往下看。國際趨勢當中，二百多個國家裡面，有32個國家是用核能、核綠並重的。我現在的重點是，如果……有缺電的情況，政策其實是一種政治的作為，因為我們走向非核家園了。目前民進黨政府還是採取政治的作為，才會讓我剛剛所說的9月17號用電吃緊的情況呈現出來。所以我特別要跟大家講，卓院長，尤其在823的公投決定之後，您過去1.0的政策統統都是在修修補補，東補一個、西補一個，我希望您能展現出政治家的風範，對全國、全世界在能源上面的重點，能夠呈現出卓榮泰2.0的部分，全新地做一個系統性的能源政策規劃，您覺得這個方向是可以進行的嗎？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們在新的能源政策、總統指示的2.0裡面，剛剛委員已經把它秀出來了，那個就是現在國家很具體的方向，包括發展多元的綠能、深度節能、科技儲能，而且還要加強電網的韌性，現在就是往這個方向在走。我們有政策、有經費、有執行的期程，這些都有。至於您說的非核家園，當初修法之後，我們已經沒有時間上的限制，但是我們認為傳統的核能對未來的子孫還是很大的負擔，所以有新式的核能……"],["劉委員書彬：您沒有趕上時勢上的需求，32個國家裡面，包括日本、南韓、美國都已經往這邊去進行了……"],["卓院長榮泰：在這段時間……"],["劉委員書彬：美國的核能部分，還可以幫助我們解決現在貿易逆差的問題，所以請你再好好想一想，看起來您是不想要負政治責任，2.0也不想做了，我們就看看未來、明年的時候卓榮泰政府的2.0政策能不能出現，如果沒有，我真的覺得你要負起政治責任了。好，能源的議題告一個段落。","我們繼續往下看，接下來要請教教育的議題，請教育部部長。在教育議題上面，我們看到教師荒的問題，請問院長，對於教師荒會帶來什麼樣的影響，您有什麼看法？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們最近幾年一直在充實整個教育的經費，讓它達到憲法上大家過去的要求，也因為如此，我們對於教師的福利也持續在做一些有效的增進；我們也強化整個校園的教師品質及環境；對教師的任用，我想教育部也一直在做多項的努力，是不是請部長來說明？"],["劉委員書彬：好。我想問一下鄭部長，您認為教師荒是什麼因素造成的？"],["鄭部長英耀：感謝委員關心中小學老師。確實因為少子化，過去各縣市……我進來的時候，事實上幾年前大概各縣市擔心現職的老師因為少子化以後減班，所以老師要重新做一些調度……"],["劉委員書彬：你認為這是少子化的影響而已嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我是說這是一個原因，當然，另外一個是產業上的原因，所以我們……"],["劉委員書彬：好，我們繼續再往下看，因為時間有限。你剛才講到少子化及產業上面的需求是很重要的，不過我們看到的是，在暑假結束之前，你們在8月25日發的新聞稿當中提到缺額是2,600人，後來變成1,429人，在開學前僅剩下276人。但是實際上面的情形卻是我自己在國教署的網站當中就看到很多缺額都還在，這個部分看起來是有一個數字被美化，可能是把行政的責任、教學的責任又給其他人去兼職了，至少讓學生有做……這考慮到是有這樣的情形……","我們現在看到缺額的部分都還有這麼多的情況下，在師資的缺額上，我自己在網站上都看到到10月份都還在徵代理教師或是正式教師，總共缺額是581名，請問現在要怎麼樣解決這個問題呢？"],["鄭部長英耀：跟委員報告，全國中小學有超過20萬人，我剛才有講，因為各縣市他們自己各控管8%，以8%來講，這個員額已經超過581……"],["劉委員書彬：很少了！"],["鄭部長英耀：是非常少，我同意因為產業上的蓬勃發展，包含待遇，所以有部分類科還有部分偏鄉的地方，確實在聘用老師上是比較辛苦的，在這個8%的控管裡面，各校……"],["劉委員書彬：好，你認為這樣是可以的，我就再繼續往下看，上個禮拜的時候，其實全教總有提出五個訴求，這五個訴求當中……國教署也有在……這部分的現實問題上面，包括行政減量、代理教師權益、職務加給還有校園濫訴的問題，我上次也聽到您到辦公室來講濫訴的問題到年底之前會解決，對不對？"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["劉委員書彬：就是有一個方向，但是希望……"],["鄭部長英耀：校事會議我們會讓它整個能夠有一個更好的運作程序，也就是說，我們希望把濫訴這一塊能夠先減少，因為過去真正能夠被進入到那些不適任教師的，基本上，他都是具名投訴的，以今年來看，有一千三百多位，大部分都是非具名，也就是說，我們浪費非常多的……"],["劉委員書彬：好，這部分我肯定，部長你在很多教師的努力之下、抗議之下，你有做這個方向、決策，我覺得這是值得肯定的。"],["鄭部長英耀：我想那不是教師的抗議，是教育部本來在許多的相關法令也做了了解，也跟地方做了許多的座談，了解老師、校長、家長等等的聲音，我們做滾動式的修正。"],["劉委員書彬：所以我想打斷一下，你的這個修法是不是年底的時候就確定可以提出來？在校事會議，在高中老師以下的……"],["鄭部長英耀：這個部分我們年底一定會……"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝，非常好！"],["鄭部長英耀：事實上，我們現在已經有初步修訂的一個構想了。"],["劉委員書彬：另外一個很重要的問題，院長、部長，教育的問題是國本。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["劉委員書彬：要考慮到的是，在9月28日出現非常多的民眾，因為連師培生也不願意再繼續留在教育界當後備的老師，所以有沒有考慮要做教育的國是會議？"],["鄭部長英耀：教育的國是會議如果只是一個大拜拜，我覺得那實質的意義不大。"],["劉委員書彬：那就看你是否誠心誠意啊！我想請院長回答一下，院長，國是教育會議，百年大計，有沒有機會或是可能？"],["卓院長榮泰：教育部如果跟地方政府一起，跟民間的團體、跟教育團體一起來商討現在這幾個問題解決的方式，如果教育部能夠做這樣的工作，我非常的支持，但不必叫做什麼「國是會議」，他只要能夠針對問題來解決就好，我請部長來籌劃這樣有效益的會議。"],["劉委員書彬：好，我們就繼續監督，而您認為這樣還沒有到動搖國本的狀況就對了，是吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們不會讓教育動搖，國本也不會動搖。"],["劉委員書彬：好，謝謝教育部長。我現在請李洋運動部長上臺，謝謝。","院長，你就先回答一下好了，其實你請李洋當部長，我覺得是一個非常有遠見的作法，這部分要值得肯定。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員支持。"],["劉委員書彬：現在李洋部長來了，請問部長，您對於體育界有所謂的六大具體措施，而您對體育界有什麼樣的改革、規劃？"],["李部長洋：我們運動部最重要的當然是全民運動、落實多元平權以及永續發展的價值；當然我這邊要引用一下鄭麗君副院長說過的話，鄭麗君副院長說過部部都是文化部，那我們認為部部都是運動部。"],["劉委員書彬：好，所以就是部部都需要互相的融合、合作，對不對？既然這樣子，請問院長，您對於新上任李洋部長的期許，還有運動界的改革方向，像全民的運動，還有國際的……你有什麼樣的期許？"],["卓院長榮泰：全民運動、全民體育、運動競技、國際事務，以及未來舉辦大型以臺灣元素的國際比賽，以及適應運動、適應體育等等，都是在我和李洋部長第一次交換意見過程當中他所提出的種種想法。我認為李部長有一個最大的優點，就是他來自體育界、實務界，他有現役國手最好的經驗，他知道我們的訓練中心該怎麼改革，他知道現在單項協會該怎麼改革，他知道怎麼樣訓練國家更年輕、下一輩的體育好手，他知道怎麼樣推動到整個社區、教育、整個全民運動上面去，而且另外有一個重點是他沒有包袱，我也不要給他任何包袱，我要讓他儘量發揮他想像的空間，用新的觀念來帶領這個新的運動部。"],["劉委員書彬：好，非常期待未來能繼續有這樣的表現，不過現在運動部的員額還沒有增補完，那什麼時候會增補完畢呢？"],["卓院長榮泰：新成立一個部會都會有這樣的一個過渡時期，我想現在他已經增補大概接近一半的人了。"],["李部長洋：對，到年底運動部有六成……"],["劉委員書彬：六成以上而已啊？"],["卓院長榮泰：因為我們可以從各部調來，我們可以從外邊來招聘，這個都需要有一點時間來討論，但是主要的這幾個帶領運動部的次長、司長、署長，我們都已經定案了，他們會持續去推動各項業務。"],["劉委員書彬：好，我們很期待，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝劉書彬委員的質詢，謝謝卓院長、相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","報告院會，在我們議場2樓旁聽的是來自臺北市成功高中的同學，我們掌聲歡迎未來國家的棟梁。","接下來請王義川委員質詢，徐富癸委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":299,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","林倩綺","林國成","陳培瑜","劉書彬","王義川","徐富癸","林沛祥","黃秀芳","徐欣瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00009","1147801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00014"}}}