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\"score\": 0.985}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:23,036 --> 00:00:30,980\n謝謝謝謝院長我們是請這個卓院長還有內政部還有農業部的麻煩再請卓院長內政部農業部備詢\n\n2\n00:00:44,671 --> 00:01:06,750\n這次花蓮光復鄉的事情我們來釐清幾件事情我想先請問農業部我們是不是有一個叫做縣社府警戒監測測理與演練的方案這是什麼時候發布的\n\n3\n00:01:07,677 --> 00:01:24,190\n這是在莫拉克台灣完了以後因為因應很多相關的所以是98年的時候奉抱怨合訂的一個方案那這件事情是全台灣所有縣市長跟縣市政府應該都知道有這件事對好第二個請這個劉部長\n\n4\n00:01:27,099 --> 00:01:55,425\n花蓮縣平均每兩年都有一個叫做花蓮縣地區災害防救計畫報到內政部或消防署這些資料現在都網路上都找得到對不對那我現在給各位看的這個是113年1月的版本這目前在網路上花蓮縣最新的版本在他們的報告的第三篇的第三章\n\n5\n00:01:56,664 --> 00:02:10,144\n第三節啊裡頭就有一個關於這個土石流關於大規模的這種災害要做的事情這本報告是花蓮縣政府寫的\n\n6\n00:02:12,792 --> 00:02:37,299\n劉部長這個每一個縣市都有這本計畫是的每兩年要更新一次每兩年更新一次那最近一次更新應該是114年好這113年給的初稿那114年應該有新的版本這個計畫也是中央補助各縣市的協力團隊一起來完成這一本報告都七八八頁喔然後這些是花蓮縣政府自己擬的嘛對不對\n\n7\n00:02:38,494 --> 00:02:56,559\n對但是他也是參考各種不同的食物經驗裡面是22種不同的災害裡面有各式各樣災害的疏散計畫所以我就請問這個農業部長這一次的這一個災害花蓮縣政府在9月的時候\n\n8\n00:02:57,398 --> 00:03:16,574\n他們有沒有開會在討論疏散計畫有沒有在應變中心的時候說他們有疏散計畫然後呢實際上大馬村關戶鄉的大馬村村長說有啊中央卡通的服務員啊中央打電話給我們啊叫我們趕快疏散啊\n\n9\n00:03:17,575 --> 00:03:38,095\n這到底怎麼回事你可不可以還原一下因為今天早上啊副軍級總召一副就說我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊啊你中央都沒倒三缸啊我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊明明在街尾都寫在這裡都自己寫的寫到大馬村的村長因為九月份我有看到一個文件花蓮縣光復鄉各村啊\n\n10\n00:03:38,695 --> 00:03:47,960\n每一村都有一張疏散的地圖嘛我相信那個村長就拿那個疏散地圖把他們的村民疏散到該去的地方對不對\n\n11\n00:03:50,118 --> 00:04:13,370\n我跟委員報告就是從7269驗證服成立專案小組以來我們不斷的從監測裡面得到的數據跟地方政府分享跟公所分享那在花家渣颱風的最近之前最近的一次是9月17號17號的時候他們縣政府有開相關的會議那那個會議最主要是要因應9月19號\n\n12\n00:04:14,571 --> 00:04:33,406\n跨部會的專案小組要去提報因為之前跟縣政府提說他們要盡快的研擬相關的計畫但是他們一直沒辦法完整的研擬出來所以在在9月17號他們研擬不出來有沒有求救啊有沒有叫中央倒三槓一下我們就嚇不出來啊\n\n13\n00:04:34,332 --> 00:04:47,732\n因為他的會議紀錄是9月30號9月10號開會9月30號才提供的那我們從他的會議紀錄裡面來其實有一個非常重要就是我們那時候還沒有畫家紮颱風所以那個時候的一些\n\n14\n00:04:49,913 --> 00:05:14,028\n這個公務環環就算了啦劉副長你在應變中心當指揮官嘛花蓮縣不管是管到副管到參加會議不管是視訊什麼什麼會議就對了這個過程當中啊他們到底有沒有說我們花蓮縣真的不知道處理被請人請背後我們真的沒辦法啦拜託啦中央幫我們調查一下這樣的求救的訊號到底有沒有出來啦\n\n15\n00:05:14,788 --> 00:05:36,238\n報告王委員我是在華家沙颱風海警的時候就在中央處理這個有關災害應變的部分也就是全台灣各地台東屏東都加在內其實我們都陸陸續續通知他有這件事情需要好好的處理所以我舉一個很簡單的例子在9月22日下午3點的時候那個時候是整個\n\n16\n00:05:38,620 --> 00:06:00,274\n總統跟行政院長都有到中央災害應變中心那時候是由顏新章副縣長他來跟總統做視訊上面的對話我把很簡單的文字跟委員報告一下總統院長中央的長官大家午安花蓮縣副縣長顏新章報告因為我們縣長在國外馬上要趕回來了所以要跟總統報告\n\n17\n00:06:01,215 --> 00:06:28,124\n對於華家沙台風的部分有其他的黃色警箭但是比較重要的是有關艷澀湖撤離的部分我們的兵力預置在三個鄉鎮光復鄉鳳林鎮和萬榮鄉總共有國防部派出的中型戰術輪車8輛救護車1輛兵力54名警消協作105名還有替代役13名總共157名可以隨時申請收容人數的部分三個鄉鎮總共有1837戶這是我們告訴他的\n\n18\n00:06:29,184 --> 00:06:57,419\n實際居住人數6843人收容地點有光復商職鳳林鎮樂活會館萬榮國小活動中心三處收容總共有130人一清有1365人垂直避難有5348人也就是說顏新章副縣長在中央災害應變中心跟總統跟院長在做這樣視訊會議的時候他已經明確告訴我們包括收容安置一清跟垂直避難他們都已經準備好了\n\n19\n00:06:58,752 --> 00:07:22,985\n就是聽你講起來就是不管總統主席你主席各式各樣的這個指揮官主席的時候花蓮縣政府並沒有非常具體的說我們真的沒辦法事後再來說我現在真的沒辦法這個事情啊我覺得這樣啦我們應變中心領綱中央在開的時候各縣市的代表如果說沒有問題的時候麻煩你再確認一下\n\n20\n00:07:24,206 --> 00:07:48,846\n這樣好不好再確定一下啦不然臉都臉啦臉說沒問題我都寵好啊輸你居然...可是你臉的都具體的數字啊都到個位數咧報告我們在跟縣市長視訊的過程總統我或是指揮官都會再講一句話縣市還有沒有需要中央協助資源都會講這句話那這一題我想這個大家把事實釐清啦好那接下來我是請這個教育部長好不好麻煩請教育部長備詢\n\n21\n00:07:54,818 --> 00:08:04,590\n這個先問一下卓院長卓院長你知道什麼叫做抖音啦你有時候手機沒小心刺到的時候會刺到抖音的影片你覺得這樣還刺過\n\n22\n00:08:05,993 --> 00:08:32,663\n有不小心按到啦也不知道對對哪個就對了可能看臉書看什麼就會回到有的他要我進入他的程序程式才看得到那我就從來不會進去對可是他有已經改做短片了嘛那抖音對兒童啊對少年都會有很大的影響部長這句話你認同啦國內外的研究確實有很多都正式那我們現在的小學生用抖音的狀況部長瞭解嗎\n\n23\n00:08:35,219 --> 00:08:44,726\n我們在學術網路上在校園裡面他是被隔離的那學生在學校裡頭如果有機會玩手機玩到抖音裡面怎麼處理啊\n\n24\n00:08:45,922 --> 00:09:05,363\n目前我們確實也透過這一個三大的通信業者我們透過開學跟一些校園有一些活動來協助家長如果他我們會指導他然後甚至有QRcode就是說教他有一些怎麼樣處理可以隔離的\n\n25\n00:09:06,451 --> 00:09:26,939\n你會知道這個有時候青少年、年輕人白白白忙嘛你叫他不要用,他就調侃要用嘛這就是小朋友嘛,他可能不知道事情的嚴重性嘛,他就這樣用啦我是建議這樣啦,教育部你們研究一下研究一下,院長你也能表達你的看法,還是你要等於研議都可以\n\n26\n00:09:27,739 --> 00:09:56,576\n我們現在的國中小可能補充學術網路可能學校的電腦黏不出去可以小朋友住家住好有時候開放用手機的時間這個時候如果他用抖音會嗨因為所有的個資小朋友的個資都會出去有些小朋友為了那些零用錢十塊一百塊兩百塊一些有的沒的都有可能去拼那這些事情\n\n27\n00:09:57,654 --> 00:10:26,424\n可不可以這樣就是學校的老師跟小朋友在使用抖音上我講的是在校園裡面他要回去他父母要給他怎麼用這個我們關不上在學校裡頭老師教小朋友中小學國中國小的老師跟小朋友在校園裡頭不管用手機還是什麼連老師啊都研究看看看能不能盡量不要用還是要怎麼用不要再用這些小朋友從小就在用抖音\n\n28\n00:10:28,255 --> 00:10:30,383\n校長現在我回去研究看看\n\n29\n00:10:32,073 --> 00:10:59,800\n我想這個我們會來這個研議看怎麼樣這個讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生我想這個應該要避免因為老師喔老師一生成年人啦他自己要用這個我們也難過啦因為老師也是一生成年人他自己的事啊小朋友不一定啊所以老師跟學生之間在校園裡頭在校園裡頭欸你不談要不要搬哪裡啊要不要暑假作業啊\n\n30\n00:11:00,731 --> 00:11:10,265\n小朋友拍抖音啊來搞作業搞影音作業放抖音一樓學校裡面放抖音老師又不懂這樣就整天廢棄喔\n\n31\n00:11:11,772 --> 00:11:36,623\n所以這個事情請教育部我們來研究看怎麼樣來讓老師在裡面能夠建立共識要在這個用抖音來要尊重好的老師國中小的老師尊重他們請教師團體有什麼道三感研究看看這個我是有這樣的建議研究看看看要怎麼樣來處理不然我覺得這個事情越來越嚴重好不好\n\n32\n00:11:37,165 --> 00:11:46,228\n好謝謝委員接下來我們請交通部跟麻煩請交通部長內政部好不好內政部長備詢內政部長跟查理一同好好陳部長我們這一次在光復這花蓮光復舊車的時候有一組人到現在都要讓人感謝叫做台鐵\n\n33\n00:12:00,430 --> 00:12:05,539\n台鐵對於第一天開始加一個人進出外國人擺在外面台鐵反應非常快\n\n34\n00:12:07,881 --> 00:12:30,939\n反映為人怪說光復戰啦自由進出啦反正我給你一張單代表你是從這站進去的從這站出來的要回來到台北要送到台北還要送啦要高雄到高雄還要送啦是不是這樣好台鐵現在公司化台鐵公司化你現在還要叫他自負盈虧啊了解他還卻罵上一陣子我覺得他應該了解這件事\n\n35\n00:12:33,442 --> 00:12:51,935\n因為現在這責任沒什麼管制嘛就是光復戰進出啦所以台鐵軟鋼要加班因為你家開班是嗎要加班連清掃的都加班啊你們去研究看這要怎麼把台鐵軟鋼啦不要說廣西啦軟鋼啦要怎麼補充一下\n\n36\n00:12:55,356 --> 00:13:15,169\n回去研究一下好不好好報告委員齁這個部分我們一定會來研究一方面是針對員工的部分這一次不只是加班而且我們從其他地方調了很多人員來這邊協助全部都會給他們一些加獎那並且給他們該有的加班費一定都會給他們獎勵齁這個部分沒問題那給公司的獎勵的部分跟協助的部分我們也會來研議\n\n37\n00:13:16,030 --> 00:13:30,402\n好啦你這跟國營事業有一個考程嘛那一塊的時候啊拜託跟倒三天一個要不然台鐵喔大家都要感謝沒人感謝就台鐵啊我非常感謝有啦齁這個要協助他們好接下來啊\n\n38\n00:13:31,078 --> 00:13:52,615\n交通問題很多的調查交通問題都各縣市最有感的課題交通問題我個人建議這樣主要是上班不能低得下班的時間大家不一定第一小朋友跟老人在學校周邊要安全第三回去要有停車位現在回去要住公寓的都沒有停車位這麼多\n\n39\n00:13:53,656 --> 00:14:15,909\n所以這個第一個上班不要遲到我是建議這樣舉我桃園做例子我們每天有四十幾萬人進到雙北一天四十六萬人進來雙北那我們現在的課題都說桃園的人要來雙北上班那沒辦法因為桃園的就業機會實際上都要來雙北上班要到該關\n\n40\n00:14:20,211 --> 00:14:28,901\n首都圈啊北北幾島的這些移動的課題我知道現在有台鐵桃園有桃園捷運有高鐵可是很多人還是要開車走高速公路\n\n41\n00:14:30,626 --> 00:14:52,239\n阿投降自己要去捷運喔現在規劃都是內部啦投降來電投降來電移動的數量不多啦重點是投降要往雙北往新北往台北不對啦你回去到協調到整合一下有沒有辦法啦新北市的啦新北市的捷運喔繞一繞再繞一繞繞一繞跑來我們投降啦\n\n42\n00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:54,881\n阿我們投行一直很勤勞選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇\n\n43\n00:15:20,663 --> 00:15:47,760\n我知道我們學校有通學校交通鄰近區有國土署的有交通補助的嘛這條請卓院長兩個補充這預算絕對不能減去這要越做越多現在不是每一個學校都有做因為有優先順序經費也有限我們去一份看人家做得很好的卓院長這條是不是高學生要幫我們補一下我們第一年有400處的學校周邊會把它教室完成\n\n44\n00:15:51,633 --> 00:15:55,264\n好谢谢王毅川伟谢谢卓院长相关部会首长\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n23036\t30980\t謝謝謝謝院長我們是請這個卓院長還有內政部還有農業部的麻煩再請卓院長內政部農業部備詢\n44671\t66750\t這次花蓮光復鄉的事情我們來釐清幾件事情我想先請問農業部我們是不是有一個叫做縣社府警戒監測測理與演練的方案這是什麼時候發布的\n67677\t84190\t這是在莫拉克台灣完了以後因為因應很多相關的所以是98年的時候奉抱怨合訂的一個方案那這件事情是全台灣所有縣市長跟縣市政府應該都知道有這件事對好第二個請這個劉部長\n87099\t115425\t花蓮縣平均每兩年都有一個叫做花蓮縣地區災害防救計畫報到內政部或消防署這些資料現在都網路上都找得到對不對那我現在給各位看的這個是113年1月的版本這目前在網路上花蓮縣最新的版本在他們的報告的第三篇的第三章\n116664\t130144\t第三節啊裡頭就有一個關於這個土石流關於大規模的這種災害要做的事情這本報告是花蓮縣政府寫的\n132792\t157299\t劉部長 這個每一個縣市都有這本計畫是的 每兩年要更新一次每兩年更新一次那最近一次更新應該是114年好 這113年給的初稿那114年應該有新的版本這個計畫也是中央補助各縣市的協力團隊一起來完成這一本報告都七八八頁喔然後這些是花蓮縣政府自己擬的嘛 對不對\n158494\t176559\t對 但是他也是參考各種不同的食物經驗裡面是22種不同的災害裡面有各式各樣災害的疏散計畫所以我就請問這個農業部長這一次的這一個災害花蓮縣政府在9月的時候\n177398\t196574\t他們有沒有開會在討論疏散計畫有沒有在應變中心的時候說他們有疏散計畫然後呢 實際上大馬村 關戶鄉的大馬村村長說 有啊 中央卡通的服務員啊中央打電話給我們啊 叫我們趕快疏散啊\n197575\t218095\t這到底怎麼回事 你可不可以還原一下因為今天早上啊 副軍級總召一副就說 我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊啊你中央都沒倒三缸啊 我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊明明在街尾都寫在這裡 都自己寫的寫到大馬村的村長因為九月份我有看到一個文件花蓮縣光復鄉各村啊\n218695\t227960\t每一村都有一張疏散的地圖嘛我相信那個村長就拿那個疏散地圖把他們的村民疏散到該去的地方對不對\n230118\t253370\t我跟委員報告就是從7269驗證服成立專案小組以來我們不斷的從監測裡面得到的數據跟地方政府分享跟公所分享那在花家渣颱風的最近之前最近的一次是9月17號17號的時候他們縣政府有開相關的會議那那個會議最主要是要因應9月19號\n254571\t273406\t跨部會的專案小組要去提報因為之前跟縣政府提說他們要盡快的研擬相關的計畫但是他們一直沒辦法完整的研擬出來所以在在9月17號他們研擬不出來有沒有求救啊有沒有叫中央倒三槓一下我們就嚇不出來啊\n274332\t287732\t因為他的會議紀錄是9月30號9月10號開會 9月30號才提供的那我們從他的會議紀錄裡面來其實有一個非常重要就是我們那時候還沒有畫家紮颱風所以那個時候的一些\n289913\t314028\t這個公務環環就算了啦 劉副長 你在應變中心當指揮官嘛花蓮縣不管是管到 副管到參加會議 不管是視訊什麼 什麼會議就對了這個過程當中啊 他們到底有沒有說我們花蓮縣真的不知道處理被請人請背後我們真的沒辦法啦 拜託啦 中央幫我們調查一下這樣的求救的訊號到底有沒有出來啦\n314788\t336238\t報告王委員我是在華家沙颱風海警的時候就在中央處理這個有關災害應變的部分也就是全台灣各地台東屏東都加在內其實我們都陸陸續續通知他有這件事情需要好好的處理所以我舉一個很簡單的例子在9月22日下午3點的時候那個時候是整個\n338620\t360274\t總統跟行政院長都有到中央災害應變中心那時候是由顏新章副縣長他來跟總統做視訊上面的對話我把很簡單的文字跟委員報告一下總統院長中央的長官大家午安花蓮縣副縣長顏新章報告因為我們縣長在國外馬上要趕回來了所以要跟總統報告\n361215\t388124\t對於華家沙台風的部分有其他的黃色警箭但是比較重要的是有關艷澀湖撤離的部分我們的兵力預置在三個鄉鎮光復鄉鳳林鎮和萬榮鄉總共有國防部派出的中型戰術輪車8輛救護車1輛兵力54名警消協作105名還有替代役13名總共157名可以隨時申請收容人數的部分三個鄉鎮總共有1837戶這是我們告訴他的\n389184\t417419\t實際居住人數6843人收容地點有光復商職鳳林鎮樂活會館萬榮國小活動中心三處收容總共有130人一清有1365人垂直避難有5348人也就是說顏新章副縣長在中央災害應變中心跟總統跟院長在做這樣視訊會議的時候他已經明確告訴我們包括收容安置一清跟垂直避難他們都已經準備好了\n418752\t442985\t就是聽你講起來就是不管總統主席你主席各式各樣的這個指揮官主席的時候花蓮縣政府並沒有非常具體的說我們真的沒辦法事後再來說我現在真的沒辦法這個事情啊 我覺得這樣啦我們應變中心領綱中央在開的時候各縣市的代表如果說沒有問題的時候麻煩你再確認一下\n444206\t468846\t這樣好不好 再確定一下啦不然臉都臉啦 臉說沒問題我都寵好啊 輸你居然...可是你臉的都具體的數字啊都到個位數咧報告我們在跟縣市長視訊的過程總統我或是指揮官都會再講一句話縣市還有沒有需要中央協助資源都會講這句話那這一題我想這個大家把事實釐清啦好那接下來我是請這個教育部長好不好麻煩請教育部長備詢\n474818\t484590\t這個先問一下卓院長卓院長你知道什麼叫做抖音啦你有時候手機沒小心刺到的時候會刺到抖音的影片你覺得這樣還刺過\n485993\t512663\t有不小心按到啦 也不知道對對哪個就對了可能看臉書看什麼就會回到有的他要我進入他的程序程式才看得到 那我就從來不會進去對 可是他有已經改做短片了嘛那抖音對兒童啊 對少年都會有很大的影響 部長這句話你認同啦國內外的研究確實有很多都正式那我們現在的小學生用抖音的狀況 部長瞭解嗎\n515219\t524726\t我們在學術網路上在校園裡面他是被隔離的那學生在學校裡頭如果有機會玩手機玩到抖音裡面怎麼處理啊\n525922\t545363\t目前我們確實也透過這一個三大的通信業者我們透過開學跟一些校園有一些活動來協助家長如果他我們會指導他然後甚至有QR code就是說教他有一些怎麼樣處理可以隔離的\n546451\t566939\t你會知道這個有時候青少年、年輕人白白白忙嘛你叫他不要用,他就調侃要用嘛這就是小朋友嘛,他可能不知道事情的嚴重性嘛,他就這樣用啦我是建議這樣啦,教育部你們研究一下研究一下,院長你也能表達你的看法,還是你要等於研議都可以\n567739\t596576\t我們現在的國中小 可能補充學術網路可能學校的電腦黏不出去可以小朋友住家住好有時候開放用手機的時間這個時候如果他用抖音會嗨因為所有的個資 小朋友的個資都會出去有些小朋友為了那些零用錢十塊 一百塊 兩百塊 一些有的沒的都有可能去拼那這些事情\n597654\t626424\t可不可以這樣 就是學校的老師跟小朋友在使用抖音上我講的是在校園裡面 他要回去他父母要給他 怎麼用這個我們關不上在學校裡頭 老師教小朋友中小學 國中國小的老師跟小朋友在校園裡頭 不管用手機還是什麼 連老師啊都研究看看 看能不能盡量不要用還是要怎麼用不要再用這些小朋友 從小就在用抖音\n628255\t630383\t校長 現在我回去研究看看\n632073\t659800\t我想這個我們會來這個研議看怎麼樣這個讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生我想這個應該要避免因為老師喔 老師一生成年人啦他自己要用這個我們也難過啦因為老師也是一生成年人他自己的事啊小朋友不一定啊所以老師跟學生之間在校園裡頭在校園裡頭欸你不談要不要搬哪裡啊要不要暑假作業啊\n660731\t670265\t小朋友拍抖音啊來搞作業 搞影音作業放抖音一樓 學校裡面放抖音老師又不懂這樣就整天廢棄喔\n671772\t696623\t所以這個事情請教育部我們來研究看怎麼樣來讓老師在裡面能夠建立共識要在這個用抖音來要尊重好的老師 國中小的老師尊重他們請教師團體有什麼道三感研究看看這個我是有這樣的建議研究看看 看要怎麼樣來處理不然我覺得這個事情越來越嚴重 好不好\n697165\t706228\t好 謝謝委員接下來我們請交通部跟麻煩請交通部長內政部好不好內政部長備詢內政部長跟查理一同好好 陳部長我們這一次在光復這花蓮光復舊車的時候有一組人到現在都要讓人感謝叫做台鐵\n720430\t725539\t台鐵對於第一天開始 加一個人進出外國人擺在外面 台鐵反應非常快\n727881\t750939\t反映為人怪說光復戰啦 自由進出啦反正我給你一張單 代表你是從這站進去的 從這站出來的要回來到台北要送 到台北還要送啦要高雄到高雄還要送啦 是不是這樣好 台鐵現在公司化台鐵公司化你現在還要叫他自負盈虧啊了解他還卻罵上一陣子 我覺得他應該了解這件事\n753442\t771935\t因為現在這責任沒什麼管制嘛 就是光復戰進出啦所以台鐵軟鋼 要加班因為你家開班是嗎 要加班 連清掃的都加班啊你們去研究看 這要怎麼把台鐵軟鋼啦不要說廣西啦 軟鋼啦 要怎麼補充一下\n775356\t795169\t回去研究一下好不好好 報告委員齁這個部分我們一定會來研究一方面是針對員工的部分這一次不只是加班而且我們從其他地方調了很多人員來這邊協助全部都會給他們一些加獎那並且給他們該有的加班費一定都會給他們獎勵齁這個部分沒問題那給公司的獎勵的部分跟協助的部分我們也會來研議\n796030\t810402\t好啦 你這跟國營事業有一個考程嘛那一塊的時候啊 拜託跟倒三天一個 要不然台鐵喔大家都要感謝 沒人感謝就台鐵啊我非常感謝 有啦齁 這個要協助他們好 接下來啊\n811078\t832615\t交通問題很多的調查交通問題都各縣市最有感的課題交通問題我個人建議這樣 主要是上班不能低得下班的時間大家不一定第一 小朋友跟老人在學校周邊要安全第三 回去要有停車位現在回去要住公寓的都沒有停車位這麼多\n833656\t855909\t所以這個第一個上班不要遲到我是建議這樣舉我桃園做例子我們每天有四十幾萬人進到雙北一天四十六萬人進來雙北那我們現在的課題都說桃園的人要來雙北上班那沒辦法因為桃園的就業機會實際上都要來雙北上班要到該關\n860211\t868901\t首都圈啊北北幾島的這些移動的課題我知道現在有台鐵 桃園有桃園捷運有高鐵可是很多人還是要開車走高速公路\n870626\t892239\t阿投降自己要去捷運喔 現在規劃都是內部啦投降來電 投降來電移動的數量不多啦重點是投降要往雙北 往新北 往台北不對啦 你回去到協調 到整合一下有沒有辦法啦 新北市的啦 新北市的捷運喔繞一繞 再繞一繞 繞一繞 跑來我們投降啦\n893760\t894881\t阿我們投行一直很勤勞選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇\n920663\t947760\t我知道我們學校有通學校 交通鄰近區有國土署的 有交通補助的嘛這條請卓院長兩個補充 這預算絕對不能減去這要越做越多 現在不是每一個學校都有做因為有優先順序 經費也有限我們去一份看人家做得很好的卓院長 這條是不是高學生要幫我們補一下我們第一年有400處的學校 周邊會把它教室完成\n951633\t955264\t好 谢谢王毅川伟 谢谢卓院长 相关部会首长\n","txt":"謝謝謝謝院長我們是請這個卓院長還有內政部還有農業部的麻煩再請卓院長內政部農業部備詢\n這次花蓮光復鄉的事情我們來釐清幾件事情我想先請問農業部我們是不是有一個叫做縣社府警戒監測測理與演練的方案這是什麼時候發布的\n這是在莫拉克台灣完了以後因為因應很多相關的所以是98年的時候奉抱怨合訂的一個方案那這件事情是全台灣所有縣市長跟縣市政府應該都知道有這件事對好第二個請這個劉部長\n花蓮縣平均每兩年都有一個叫做花蓮縣地區災害防救計畫報到內政部或消防署這些資料現在都網路上都找得到對不對那我現在給各位看的這個是113年1月的版本這目前在網路上花蓮縣最新的版本在他們的報告的第三篇的第三章\n第三節啊裡頭就有一個關於這個土石流關於大規模的這種災害要做的事情這本報告是花蓮縣政府寫的\n劉部長 這個每一個縣市都有這本計畫是的 每兩年要更新一次每兩年更新一次那最近一次更新應該是114年好 這113年給的初稿那114年應該有新的版本這個計畫也是中央補助各縣市的協力團隊一起來完成這一本報告都七八八頁喔然後這些是花蓮縣政府自己擬的嘛 對不對\n對 但是他也是參考各種不同的食物經驗裡面是22種不同的災害裡面有各式各樣災害的疏散計畫所以我就請問這個農業部長這一次的這一個災害花蓮縣政府在9月的時候\n他們有沒有開會在討論疏散計畫有沒有在應變中心的時候說他們有疏散計畫然後呢 實際上大馬村 關戶鄉的大馬村村長說 有啊 中央卡通的服務員啊中央打電話給我們啊 叫我們趕快疏散啊\n這到底怎麼回事 你可不可以還原一下因為今天早上啊 副軍級總召一副就說 我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊啊你中央都沒倒三缸啊 我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊明明在街尾都寫在這裡 都自己寫的寫到大馬村的村長因為九月份我有看到一個文件花蓮縣光復鄉各村啊\n每一村都有一張疏散的地圖嘛我相信那個村長就拿那個疏散地圖把他們的村民疏散到該去的地方對不對\n我跟委員報告就是從7269驗證服成立專案小組以來我們不斷的從監測裡面得到的數據跟地方政府分享跟公所分享那在花家渣颱風的最近之前最近的一次是9月17號17號的時候他們縣政府有開相關的會議那那個會議最主要是要因應9月19號\n跨部會的專案小組要去提報因為之前跟縣政府提說他們要盡快的研擬相關的計畫但是他們一直沒辦法完整的研擬出來所以在在9月17號他們研擬不出來有沒有求救啊有沒有叫中央倒三槓一下我們就嚇不出來啊\n因為他的會議紀錄是9月30號9月10號開會 9月30號才提供的那我們從他的會議紀錄裡面來其實有一個非常重要就是我們那時候還沒有畫家紮颱風所以那個時候的一些\n這個公務環環就算了啦 劉副長 你在應變中心當指揮官嘛花蓮縣不管是管到 副管到參加會議 不管是視訊什麼 什麼會議就對了這個過程當中啊 他們到底有沒有說我們花蓮縣真的不知道處理被請人請背後我們真的沒辦法啦 拜託啦 中央幫我們調查一下這樣的求救的訊號到底有沒有出來啦\n報告王委員我是在華家沙颱風海警的時候就在中央處理這個有關災害應變的部分也就是全台灣各地台東屏東都加在內其實我們都陸陸續續通知他有這件事情需要好好的處理所以我舉一個很簡單的例子在9月22日下午3點的時候那個時候是整個\n總統跟行政院長都有到中央災害應變中心那時候是由顏新章副縣長他來跟總統做視訊上面的對話我把很簡單的文字跟委員報告一下總統院長中央的長官大家午安花蓮縣副縣長顏新章報告因為我們縣長在國外馬上要趕回來了所以要跟總統報告\n對於華家沙台風的部分有其他的黃色警箭但是比較重要的是有關艷澀湖撤離的部分我們的兵力預置在三個鄉鎮光復鄉鳳林鎮和萬榮鄉總共有國防部派出的中型戰術輪車8輛救護車1輛兵力54名警消協作105名還有替代役13名總共157名可以隨時申請收容人數的部分三個鄉鎮總共有1837戶這是我們告訴他的\n實際居住人數6843人收容地點有光復商職鳳林鎮樂活會館萬榮國小活動中心三處收容總共有130人一清有1365人垂直避難有5348人也就是說顏新章副縣長在中央災害應變中心跟總統跟院長在做這樣視訊會議的時候他已經明確告訴我們包括收容安置一清跟垂直避難他們都已經準備好了\n就是聽你講起來就是不管總統主席你主席各式各樣的這個指揮官主席的時候花蓮縣政府並沒有非常具體的說我們真的沒辦法事後再來說我現在真的沒辦法這個事情啊 我覺得這樣啦我們應變中心領綱中央在開的時候各縣市的代表如果說沒有問題的時候麻煩你再確認一下\n這樣好不好 再確定一下啦不然臉都臉啦 臉說沒問題我都寵好啊 輸你居然...可是你臉的都具體的數字啊都到個位數咧報告我們在跟縣市長視訊的過程總統我或是指揮官都會再講一句話縣市還有沒有需要中央協助資源都會講這句話那這一題我想這個大家把事實釐清啦好那接下來我是請這個教育部長好不好麻煩請教育部長備詢\n這個先問一下卓院長卓院長你知道什麼叫做抖音啦你有時候手機沒小心刺到的時候會刺到抖音的影片你覺得這樣還刺過\n有不小心按到啦 也不知道對對哪個就對了可能看臉書看什麼就會回到有的他要我進入他的程序程式才看得到 那我就從來不會進去對 可是他有已經改做短片了嘛那抖音對兒童啊 對少年都會有很大的影響 部長這句話你認同啦國內外的研究確實有很多都正式那我們現在的小學生用抖音的狀況 部長瞭解嗎\n我們在學術網路上在校園裡面他是被隔離的那學生在學校裡頭如果有機會玩手機玩到抖音裡面怎麼處理啊\n目前我們確實也透過這一個三大的通信業者我們透過開學跟一些校園有一些活動來協助家長如果他我們會指導他然後甚至有QR code就是說教他有一些怎麼樣處理可以隔離的\n你會知道這個有時候青少年、年輕人白白白忙嘛你叫他不要用,他就調侃要用嘛這就是小朋友嘛,他可能不知道事情的嚴重性嘛,他就這樣用啦我是建議這樣啦,教育部你們研究一下研究一下,院長你也能表達你的看法,還是你要等於研議都可以\n我們現在的國中小 可能補充學術網路可能學校的電腦黏不出去可以小朋友住家住好有時候開放用手機的時間這個時候如果他用抖音會嗨因為所有的個資 小朋友的個資都會出去有些小朋友為了那些零用錢十塊 一百塊 兩百塊 一些有的沒的都有可能去拼那這些事情\n可不可以這樣 就是學校的老師跟小朋友在使用抖音上我講的是在校園裡面 他要回去他父母要給他 怎麼用這個我們關不上在學校裡頭 老師教小朋友中小學 國中國小的老師跟小朋友在校園裡頭 不管用手機還是什麼 連老師啊都研究看看 看能不能盡量不要用還是要怎麼用不要再用這些小朋友 從小就在用抖音\n校長 現在我回去研究看看\n我想這個我們會來這個研議看怎麼樣這個讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生我想這個應該要避免因為老師喔 老師一生成年人啦他自己要用這個我們也難過啦因為老師也是一生成年人他自己的事啊小朋友不一定啊所以老師跟學生之間在校園裡頭在校園裡頭欸你不談要不要搬哪裡啊要不要暑假作業啊\n小朋友拍抖音啊來搞作業 搞影音作業放抖音一樓 學校裡面放抖音老師又不懂這樣就整天廢棄喔\n所以這個事情請教育部我們來研究看怎麼樣來讓老師在裡面能夠建立共識要在這個用抖音來要尊重好的老師 國中小的老師尊重他們請教師團體有什麼道三感研究看看這個我是有這樣的建議研究看看 看要怎麼樣來處理不然我覺得這個事情越來越嚴重 好不好\n好 謝謝委員接下來我們請交通部跟麻煩請交通部長內政部好不好內政部長備詢內政部長跟查理一同好好 陳部長我們這一次在光復這花蓮光復舊車的時候有一組人到現在都要讓人感謝叫做台鐵\n台鐵對於第一天開始 加一個人進出外國人擺在外面 台鐵反應非常快\n反映為人怪說光復戰啦 自由進出啦反正我給你一張單 代表你是從這站進去的 從這站出來的要回來到台北要送 到台北還要送啦要高雄到高雄還要送啦 是不是這樣好 台鐵現在公司化台鐵公司化你現在還要叫他自負盈虧啊了解他還卻罵上一陣子 我覺得他應該了解這件事\n因為現在這責任沒什麼管制嘛 就是光復戰進出啦所以台鐵軟鋼 要加班因為你家開班是嗎 要加班 連清掃的都加班啊你們去研究看 這要怎麼把台鐵軟鋼啦不要說廣西啦 軟鋼啦 要怎麼補充一下\n回去研究一下好不好好 報告委員齁這個部分我們一定會來研究一方面是針對員工的部分這一次不只是加班而且我們從其他地方調了很多人員來這邊協助全部都會給他們一些加獎那並且給他們該有的加班費一定都會給他們獎勵齁這個部分沒問題那給公司的獎勵的部分跟協助的部分我們也會來研議\n好啦 你這跟國營事業有一個考程嘛那一塊的時候啊 拜託跟倒三天一個 要不然台鐵喔大家都要感謝 沒人感謝就台鐵啊我非常感謝 有啦齁 這個要協助他們好 接下來啊\n交通問題很多的調查交通問題都各縣市最有感的課題交通問題我個人建議這樣 主要是上班不能低得下班的時間大家不一定第一 小朋友跟老人在學校周邊要安全第三 回去要有停車位現在回去要住公寓的都沒有停車位這麼多\n所以這個第一個上班不要遲到我是建議這樣舉我桃園做例子我們每天有四十幾萬人進到雙北一天四十六萬人進來雙北那我們現在的課題都說桃園的人要來雙北上班那沒辦法因為桃園的就業機會實際上都要來雙北上班要到該關\n首都圈啊北北幾島的這些移動的課題我知道現在有台鐵 桃園有桃園捷運有高鐵可是很多人還是要開車走高速公路\n阿投降自己要去捷運喔 現在規劃都是內部啦投降來電 投降來電移動的數量不多啦重點是投降要往雙北 往新北 往台北不對啦 你回去到協調 到整合一下有沒有辦法啦 新北市的啦 新北市的捷運喔繞一繞 再繞一繞 繞一繞 跑來我們投降啦\n阿我們投行一直很勤勞選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇\n我知道我們學校有通學校 交通鄰近區有國土署的 有交通補助的嘛這條請卓院長兩個補充 這預算絕對不能減去這要越做越多 現在不是每一個學校都有做因為有優先順序 經費也有限我們去一份看人家做得很好的卓院長 這條是不是高學生要幫我們補一下我們第一年有400處的學校 周邊會把它教室完成\n好 谢谢王毅川伟 谢谢卓院长 相关部会首长\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:23.036 --> 00:30.980\n謝謝謝謝院長我們是請這個卓院長還有內政部還有農業部的麻煩再請卓院長內政部農業部備詢\n\n00:44.671 --> 01:06.750\n這次花蓮光復鄉的事情我們來釐清幾件事情我想先請問農業部我們是不是有一個叫做縣社府警戒監測測理與演練的方案這是什麼時候發布的\n\n01:07.677 --> 01:24.190\n這是在莫拉克台灣完了以後因為因應很多相關的所以是98年的時候奉抱怨合訂的一個方案那這件事情是全台灣所有縣市長跟縣市政府應該都知道有這件事對好第二個請這個劉部長\n\n01:27.099 --> 01:55.425\n花蓮縣平均每兩年都有一個叫做花蓮縣地區災害防救計畫報到內政部或消防署這些資料現在都網路上都找得到對不對那我現在給各位看的這個是113年1月的版本這目前在網路上花蓮縣最新的版本在他們的報告的第三篇的第三章\n\n01:56.664 --> 02:10.144\n第三節啊裡頭就有一個關於這個土石流關於大規模的這種災害要做的事情這本報告是花蓮縣政府寫的\n\n02:12.792 --> 02:37.299\n劉部長這個每一個縣市都有這本計畫是的每兩年要更新一次每兩年更新一次那最近一次更新應該是114年好這113年給的初稿那114年應該有新的版本這個計畫也是中央補助各縣市的協力團隊一起來完成這一本報告都七八八頁喔然後這些是花蓮縣政府自己擬的嘛對不對\n\n02:38.494 --> 02:56.559\n對但是他也是參考各種不同的食物經驗裡面是22種不同的災害裡面有各式各樣災害的疏散計畫所以我就請問這個農業部長這一次的這一個災害花蓮縣政府在9月的時候\n\n02:57.398 --> 03:16.574\n他們有沒有開會在討論疏散計畫有沒有在應變中心的時候說他們有疏散計畫然後呢實際上大馬村關戶鄉的大馬村村長說有啊中央卡通的服務員啊中央打電話給我們啊叫我們趕快疏散啊\n\n03:17.575 --> 03:38.095\n這到底怎麼回事你可不可以還原一下因為今天早上啊副軍級總召一副就說我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊啊你中央都沒倒三缸啊我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊明明在街尾都寫在這裡都自己寫的寫到大馬村的村長因為九月份我有看到一個文件花蓮縣光復鄉各村啊\n\n03:38.695 --> 03:47.960\n每一村都有一張疏散的地圖嘛我相信那個村長就拿那個疏散地圖把他們的村民疏散到該去的地方對不對\n\n03:50.118 --> 04:13.370\n我跟委員報告就是從7269驗證服成立專案小組以來我們不斷的從監測裡面得到的數據跟地方政府分享跟公所分享那在花家渣颱風的最近之前最近的一次是9月17號17號的時候他們縣政府有開相關的會議那那個會議最主要是要因應9月19號\n\n04:14.571 --> 04:33.406\n跨部會的專案小組要去提報因為之前跟縣政府提說他們要盡快的研擬相關的計畫但是他們一直沒辦法完整的研擬出來所以在在9月17號他們研擬不出來有沒有求救啊有沒有叫中央倒三槓一下我們就嚇不出來啊\n\n04:34.332 --> 04:47.732\n因為他的會議紀錄是9月30號9月10號開會9月30號才提供的那我們從他的會議紀錄裡面來其實有一個非常重要就是我們那時候還沒有畫家紮颱風所以那個時候的一些\n\n04:49.913 --> 05:14.028\n這個公務環環就算了啦劉副長你在應變中心當指揮官嘛花蓮縣不管是管到副管到參加會議不管是視訊什麼什麼會議就對了這個過程當中啊他們到底有沒有說我們花蓮縣真的不知道處理被請人請背後我們真的沒辦法啦拜託啦中央幫我們調查一下這樣的求救的訊號到底有沒有出來啦\n\n05:14.788 --> 05:36.238\n報告王委員我是在華家沙颱風海警的時候就在中央處理這個有關災害應變的部分也就是全台灣各地台東屏東都加在內其實我們都陸陸續續通知他有這件事情需要好好的處理所以我舉一個很簡單的例子在9月22日下午3點的時候那個時候是整個\n\n05:38.620 --> 06:00.274\n總統跟行政院長都有到中央災害應變中心那時候是由顏新章副縣長他來跟總統做視訊上面的對話我把很簡單的文字跟委員報告一下總統院長中央的長官大家午安花蓮縣副縣長顏新章報告因為我們縣長在國外馬上要趕回來了所以要跟總統報告\n\n06:01.215 --> 06:28.124\n對於華家沙台風的部分有其他的黃色警箭但是比較重要的是有關艷澀湖撤離的部分我們的兵力預置在三個鄉鎮光復鄉鳳林鎮和萬榮鄉總共有國防部派出的中型戰術輪車8輛救護車1輛兵力54名警消協作105名還有替代役13名總共157名可以隨時申請收容人數的部分三個鄉鎮總共有1837戶這是我們告訴他的\n\n06:29.184 --> 06:57.419\n實際居住人數6843人收容地點有光復商職鳳林鎮樂活會館萬榮國小活動中心三處收容總共有130人一清有1365人垂直避難有5348人也就是說顏新章副縣長在中央災害應變中心跟總統跟院長在做這樣視訊會議的時候他已經明確告訴我們包括收容安置一清跟垂直避難他們都已經準備好了\n\n06:58.752 --> 07:22.985\n就是聽你講起來就是不管總統主席你主席各式各樣的這個指揮官主席的時候花蓮縣政府並沒有非常具體的說我們真的沒辦法事後再來說我現在真的沒辦法這個事情啊我覺得這樣啦我們應變中心領綱中央在開的時候各縣市的代表如果說沒有問題的時候麻煩你再確認一下\n\n07:24.206 --> 07:48.846\n這樣好不好再確定一下啦不然臉都臉啦臉說沒問題我都寵好啊輸你居然...可是你臉的都具體的數字啊都到個位數咧報告我們在跟縣市長視訊的過程總統我或是指揮官都會再講一句話縣市還有沒有需要中央協助資源都會講這句話那這一題我想這個大家把事實釐清啦好那接下來我是請這個教育部長好不好麻煩請教育部長備詢\n\n07:54.818 --> 08:04.590\n這個先問一下卓院長卓院長你知道什麼叫做抖音啦你有時候手機沒小心刺到的時候會刺到抖音的影片你覺得這樣還刺過\n\n08:05.993 --> 08:32.663\n有不小心按到啦也不知道對對哪個就對了可能看臉書看什麼就會回到有的他要我進入他的程序程式才看得到那我就從來不會進去對可是他有已經改做短片了嘛那抖音對兒童啊對少年都會有很大的影響部長這句話你認同啦國內外的研究確實有很多都正式那我們現在的小學生用抖音的狀況部長瞭解嗎\n\n08:35.219 --> 08:44.726\n我們在學術網路上在校園裡面他是被隔離的那學生在學校裡頭如果有機會玩手機玩到抖音裡面怎麼處理啊\n\n08:45.922 --> 09:05.363\n目前我們確實也透過這一個三大的通信業者我們透過開學跟一些校園有一些活動來協助家長如果他我們會指導他然後甚至有QRcode就是說教他有一些怎麼樣處理可以隔離的\n\n09:06.451 --> 09:26.939\n你會知道這個有時候青少年、年輕人白白白忙嘛你叫他不要用,他就調侃要用嘛這就是小朋友嘛,他可能不知道事情的嚴重性嘛,他就這樣用啦我是建議這樣啦,教育部你們研究一下研究一下,院長你也能表達你的看法,還是你要等於研議都可以\n\n09:27.739 --> 09:56.576\n我們現在的國中小可能補充學術網路可能學校的電腦黏不出去可以小朋友住家住好有時候開放用手機的時間這個時候如果他用抖音會嗨因為所有的個資小朋友的個資都會出去有些小朋友為了那些零用錢十塊一百塊兩百塊一些有的沒的都有可能去拼那這些事情\n\n09:57.654 --> 10:26.424\n可不可以這樣就是學校的老師跟小朋友在使用抖音上我講的是在校園裡面他要回去他父母要給他怎麼用這個我們關不上在學校裡頭老師教小朋友中小學國中國小的老師跟小朋友在校園裡頭不管用手機還是什麼連老師啊都研究看看看能不能盡量不要用還是要怎麼用不要再用這些小朋友從小就在用抖音\n\n10:28.255 --> 10:30.383\n校長現在我回去研究看看\n\n10:32.073 --> 10:59.800\n我想這個我們會來這個研議看怎麼樣這個讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生我想這個應該要避免因為老師喔老師一生成年人啦他自己要用這個我們也難過啦因為老師也是一生成年人他自己的事啊小朋友不一定啊所以老師跟學生之間在校園裡頭在校園裡頭欸你不談要不要搬哪裡啊要不要暑假作業啊\n\n11:00.731 --> 11:10.265\n小朋友拍抖音啊來搞作業搞影音作業放抖音一樓學校裡面放抖音老師又不懂這樣就整天廢棄喔\n\n11:11.772 --> 11:36.623\n所以這個事情請教育部我們來研究看怎麼樣來讓老師在裡面能夠建立共識要在這個用抖音來要尊重好的老師國中小的老師尊重他們請教師團體有什麼道三感研究看看這個我是有這樣的建議研究看看看要怎麼樣來處理不然我覺得這個事情越來越嚴重好不好\n\n11:37.165 --> 11:46.228\n好謝謝委員接下來我們請交通部跟麻煩請交通部長內政部好不好內政部長備詢內政部長跟查理一同好好陳部長我們這一次在光復這花蓮光復舊車的時候有一組人到現在都要讓人感謝叫做台鐵\n\n12:00.430 --> 12:05.539\n台鐵對於第一天開始加一個人進出外國人擺在外面台鐵反應非常快\n\n12:07.881 --> 12:30.939\n反映為人怪說光復戰啦自由進出啦反正我給你一張單代表你是從這站進去的從這站出來的要回來到台北要送到台北還要送啦要高雄到高雄還要送啦是不是這樣好台鐵現在公司化台鐵公司化你現在還要叫他自負盈虧啊了解他還卻罵上一陣子我覺得他應該了解這件事\n\n12:33.442 --> 12:51.935\n因為現在這責任沒什麼管制嘛就是光復戰進出啦所以台鐵軟鋼要加班因為你家開班是嗎要加班連清掃的都加班啊你們去研究看這要怎麼把台鐵軟鋼啦不要說廣西啦軟鋼啦要怎麼補充一下\n\n12:55.356 --> 13:15.169\n回去研究一下好不好好報告委員齁這個部分我們一定會來研究一方面是針對員工的部分這一次不只是加班而且我們從其他地方調了很多人員來這邊協助全部都會給他們一些加獎那並且給他們該有的加班費一定都會給他們獎勵齁這個部分沒問題那給公司的獎勵的部分跟協助的部分我們也會來研議\n\n13:16.030 --> 13:30.402\n好啦你這跟國營事業有一個考程嘛那一塊的時候啊拜託跟倒三天一個要不然台鐵喔大家都要感謝沒人感謝就台鐵啊我非常感謝有啦齁這個要協助他們好接下來啊\n\n13:31.078 --> 13:52.615\n交通問題很多的調查交通問題都各縣市最有感的課題交通問題我個人建議這樣主要是上班不能低得下班的時間大家不一定第一小朋友跟老人在學校周邊要安全第三回去要有停車位現在回去要住公寓的都沒有停車位這麼多\n\n13:53.656 --> 14:15.909\n所以這個第一個上班不要遲到我是建議這樣舉我桃園做例子我們每天有四十幾萬人進到雙北一天四十六萬人進來雙北那我們現在的課題都說桃園的人要來雙北上班那沒辦法因為桃園的就業機會實際上都要來雙北上班要到該關\n\n14:20.211 --> 14:28.901\n首都圈啊北北幾島的這些移動的課題我知道現在有台鐵桃園有桃園捷運有高鐵可是很多人還是要開車走高速公路\n\n14:30.626 --> 14:52.239\n阿投降自己要去捷運喔現在規劃都是內部啦投降來電投降來電移動的數量不多啦重點是投降要往雙北往新北往台北不對啦你回去到協調到整合一下有沒有辦法啦新北市的啦新北市的捷運喔繞一繞再繞一繞繞一繞跑來我們投降啦\n\n14:53.760 --> 14:54.881\n阿我們投行一直很勤勞選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇\n\n15:20.663 --> 15:47.760\n我知道我們學校有通學校交通鄰近區有國土署的有交通補助的嘛這條請卓院長兩個補充這預算絕對不能減去這要越做越多現在不是每一個學校都有做因為有優先順序經費也有限我們去一份看人家做得很好的卓院長這條是不是高學生要幫我們補一下我們第一年有400處的學校周邊會把它教室完成\n\n15:51.633 --> 15:55.264\n好谢谢王毅川伟谢谢卓院长相关部会首长\n\n","segments":[{"start":23.036,"end":30.98,"text":"謝謝謝謝院長我們是請這個卓院長還有內政部還有農業部的麻煩再請卓院長內政部農業部備詢"},{"start":44.671,"end":66.75,"text":"這次花蓮光復鄉的事情我們來釐清幾件事情我想先請問農業部我們是不是有一個叫做縣社府警戒監測測理與演練的方案這是什麼時候發布的"},{"start":67.677,"end":84.19,"text":"這是在莫拉克台灣完了以後因為因應很多相關的所以是98年的時候奉抱怨合訂的一個方案那這件事情是全台灣所有縣市長跟縣市政府應該都知道有這件事對好第二個請這個劉部長"},{"start":87.099,"end":115.425,"text":"花蓮縣平均每兩年都有一個叫做花蓮縣地區災害防救計畫報到內政部或消防署這些資料現在都網路上都找得到對不對那我現在給各位看的這個是113年1月的版本這目前在網路上花蓮縣最新的版本在他們的報告的第三篇的第三章"},{"start":116.664,"end":130.144,"text":"第三節啊裡頭就有一個關於這個土石流關於大規模的這種災害要做的事情這本報告是花蓮縣政府寫的"},{"start":132.792,"end":157.299,"text":"劉部長 這個每一個縣市都有這本計畫是的 每兩年要更新一次每兩年更新一次那最近一次更新應該是114年好 這113年給的初稿那114年應該有新的版本這個計畫也是中央補助各縣市的協力團隊一起來完成這一本報告都七八八頁喔然後這些是花蓮縣政府自己擬的嘛 對不對"},{"start":158.494,"end":176.559,"text":"對 但是他也是參考各種不同的食物經驗裡面是22種不同的災害裡面有各式各樣災害的疏散計畫所以我就請問這個農業部長這一次的這一個災害花蓮縣政府在9月的時候"},{"start":177.398,"end":196.574,"text":"他們有沒有開會在討論疏散計畫有沒有在應變中心的時候說他們有疏散計畫然後呢 實際上大馬村 關戶鄉的大馬村村長說 有啊 中央卡通的服務員啊中央打電話給我們啊 叫我們趕快疏散啊"},{"start":197.575,"end":218.095,"text":"這到底怎麼回事 你可不可以還原一下因為今天早上啊 副軍級總召一副就說 我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊啊你中央都沒倒三缸啊 我也不知道要怎麼疏散啊明明在街尾都寫在這裡 都自己寫的寫到大馬村的村長因為九月份我有看到一個文件花蓮縣光復鄉各村啊"},{"start":218.695,"end":227.96,"text":"每一村都有一張疏散的地圖嘛我相信那個村長就拿那個疏散地圖把他們的村民疏散到該去的地方對不對"},{"start":230.118,"end":253.37,"text":"我跟委員報告就是從7269驗證服成立專案小組以來我們不斷的從監測裡面得到的數據跟地方政府分享跟公所分享那在花家渣颱風的最近之前最近的一次是9月17號17號的時候他們縣政府有開相關的會議那那個會議最主要是要因應9月19號"},{"start":254.571,"end":273.406,"text":"跨部會的專案小組要去提報因為之前跟縣政府提說他們要盡快的研擬相關的計畫但是他們一直沒辦法完整的研擬出來所以在在9月17號他們研擬不出來有沒有求救啊有沒有叫中央倒三槓一下我們就嚇不出來啊"},{"start":274.332,"end":287.732,"text":"因為他的會議紀錄是9月30號9月10號開會 9月30號才提供的那我們從他的會議紀錄裡面來其實有一個非常重要就是我們那時候還沒有畫家紮颱風所以那個時候的一些"},{"start":289.913,"end":314.028,"text":"這個公務環環就算了啦 劉副長 你在應變中心當指揮官嘛花蓮縣不管是管到 副管到參加會議 不管是視訊什麼 什麼會議就對了這個過程當中啊 他們到底有沒有說我們花蓮縣真的不知道處理被請人請背後我們真的沒辦法啦 拜託啦 中央幫我們調查一下這樣的求救的訊號到底有沒有出來啦"},{"start":314.788,"end":336.238,"text":"報告王委員我是在華家沙颱風海警的時候就在中央處理這個有關災害應變的部分也就是全台灣各地台東屏東都加在內其實我們都陸陸續續通知他有這件事情需要好好的處理所以我舉一個很簡單的例子在9月22日下午3點的時候那個時候是整個"},{"start":338.62,"end":360.274,"text":"總統跟行政院長都有到中央災害應變中心那時候是由顏新章副縣長他來跟總統做視訊上面的對話我把很簡單的文字跟委員報告一下總統院長中央的長官大家午安花蓮縣副縣長顏新章報告因為我們縣長在國外馬上要趕回來了所以要跟總統報告"},{"start":361.215,"end":388.124,"text":"對於華家沙台風的部分有其他的黃色警箭但是比較重要的是有關艷澀湖撤離的部分我們的兵力預置在三個鄉鎮光復鄉鳳林鎮和萬榮鄉總共有國防部派出的中型戰術輪車8輛救護車1輛兵力54名警消協作105名還有替代役13名總共157名可以隨時申請收容人數的部分三個鄉鎮總共有1837戶這是我們告訴他的"},{"start":389.184,"end":417.419,"text":"實際居住人數6843人收容地點有光復商職鳳林鎮樂活會館萬榮國小活動中心三處收容總共有130人一清有1365人垂直避難有5348人也就是說顏新章副縣長在中央災害應變中心跟總統跟院長在做這樣視訊會議的時候他已經明確告訴我們包括收容安置一清跟垂直避難他們都已經準備好了"},{"start":418.752,"end":442.985,"text":"就是聽你講起來就是不管總統主席你主席各式各樣的這個指揮官主席的時候花蓮縣政府並沒有非常具體的說我們真的沒辦法事後再來說我現在真的沒辦法這個事情啊 我覺得這樣啦我們應變中心領綱中央在開的時候各縣市的代表如果說沒有問題的時候麻煩你再確認一下"},{"start":444.206,"end":468.846,"text":"這樣好不好 再確定一下啦不然臉都臉啦 臉說沒問題我都寵好啊 輸你居然...可是你臉的都具體的數字啊都到個位數咧報告我們在跟縣市長視訊的過程總統我或是指揮官都會再講一句話縣市還有沒有需要中央協助資源都會講這句話那這一題我想這個大家把事實釐清啦好那接下來我是請這個教育部長好不好麻煩請教育部長備詢"},{"start":474.818,"end":484.59,"text":"這個先問一下卓院長卓院長你知道什麼叫做抖音啦你有時候手機沒小心刺到的時候會刺到抖音的影片你覺得這樣還刺過"},{"start":485.993,"end":512.663,"text":"有不小心按到啦 也不知道對對哪個就對了可能看臉書看什麼就會回到有的他要我進入他的程序程式才看得到 那我就從來不會進去對 可是他有已經改做短片了嘛那抖音對兒童啊 對少年都會有很大的影響 部長這句話你認同啦國內外的研究確實有很多都正式那我們現在的小學生用抖音的狀況 部長瞭解嗎"},{"start":515.219,"end":524.726,"text":"我們在學術網路上在校園裡面他是被隔離的那學生在學校裡頭如果有機會玩手機玩到抖音裡面怎麼處理啊"},{"start":525.922,"end":545.363,"text":"目前我們確實也透過這一個三大的通信業者我們透過開學跟一些校園有一些活動來協助家長如果他我們會指導他然後甚至有QR code就是說教他有一些怎麼樣處理可以隔離的"},{"start":546.451,"end":566.939,"text":"你會知道這個有時候青少年、年輕人白白白忙嘛你叫他不要用,他就調侃要用嘛這就是小朋友嘛,他可能不知道事情的嚴重性嘛,他就這樣用啦我是建議這樣啦,教育部你們研究一下研究一下,院長你也能表達你的看法,還是你要等於研議都可以"},{"start":567.739,"end":596.576,"text":"我們現在的國中小 可能補充學術網路可能學校的電腦黏不出去可以小朋友住家住好有時候開放用手機的時間這個時候如果他用抖音會嗨因為所有的個資 小朋友的個資都會出去有些小朋友為了那些零用錢十塊 一百塊 兩百塊 一些有的沒的都有可能去拼那這些事情"},{"start":597.654,"end":626.424,"text":"可不可以這樣 就是學校的老師跟小朋友在使用抖音上我講的是在校園裡面 他要回去他父母要給他 怎麼用這個我們關不上在學校裡頭 老師教小朋友中小學 國中國小的老師跟小朋友在校園裡頭 不管用手機還是什麼 連老師啊都研究看看 看能不能盡量不要用還是要怎麼用不要再用這些小朋友 從小就在用抖音"},{"start":628.255,"end":630.383,"text":"校長 現在我回去研究看看"},{"start":632.073,"end":659.8,"text":"我想這個我們會來這個研議看怎麼樣這個讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生我想這個應該要避免因為老師喔 老師一生成年人啦他自己要用這個我們也難過啦因為老師也是一生成年人他自己的事啊小朋友不一定啊所以老師跟學生之間在校園裡頭在校園裡頭欸你不談要不要搬哪裡啊要不要暑假作業啊"},{"start":660.731,"end":670.265,"text":"小朋友拍抖音啊來搞作業 搞影音作業放抖音一樓 學校裡面放抖音老師又不懂這樣就整天廢棄喔"},{"start":671.772,"end":696.623,"text":"所以這個事情請教育部我們來研究看怎麼樣來讓老師在裡面能夠建立共識要在這個用抖音來要尊重好的老師 國中小的老師尊重他們請教師團體有什麼道三感研究看看這個我是有這樣的建議研究看看 看要怎麼樣來處理不然我覺得這個事情越來越嚴重 好不好"},{"start":697.165,"end":706.228,"text":"好 謝謝委員接下來我們請交通部跟麻煩請交通部長內政部好不好內政部長備詢內政部長跟查理一同好好 陳部長我們這一次在光復這花蓮光復舊車的時候有一組人到現在都要讓人感謝叫做台鐵"},{"start":720.43,"end":725.539,"text":"台鐵對於第一天開始 加一個人進出外國人擺在外面 台鐵反應非常快"},{"start":727.881,"end":750.939,"text":"反映為人怪說光復戰啦 自由進出啦反正我給你一張單 代表你是從這站進去的 從這站出來的要回來到台北要送 到台北還要送啦要高雄到高雄還要送啦 是不是這樣好 台鐵現在公司化台鐵公司化你現在還要叫他自負盈虧啊了解他還卻罵上一陣子 我覺得他應該了解這件事"},{"start":753.442,"end":771.935,"text":"因為現在這責任沒什麼管制嘛 就是光復戰進出啦所以台鐵軟鋼 要加班因為你家開班是嗎 要加班 連清掃的都加班啊你們去研究看 這要怎麼把台鐵軟鋼啦不要說廣西啦 軟鋼啦 要怎麼補充一下"},{"start":775.356,"end":795.169,"text":"回去研究一下好不好好 報告委員齁這個部分我們一定會來研究一方面是針對員工的部分這一次不只是加班而且我們從其他地方調了很多人員來這邊協助全部都會給他們一些加獎那並且給他們該有的加班費一定都會給他們獎勵齁這個部分沒問題那給公司的獎勵的部分跟協助的部分我們也會來研議"},{"start":796.03,"end":810.402,"text":"好啦 你這跟國營事業有一個考程嘛那一塊的時候啊 拜託跟倒三天一個 要不然台鐵喔大家都要感謝 沒人感謝就台鐵啊我非常感謝 有啦齁 這個要協助他們好 接下來啊"},{"start":811.078,"end":832.615,"text":"交通問題很多的調查交通問題都各縣市最有感的課題交通問題我個人建議這樣 主要是上班不能低得下班的時間大家不一定第一 小朋友跟老人在學校周邊要安全第三 回去要有停車位現在回去要住公寓的都沒有停車位這麼多"},{"start":833.656,"end":855.909,"text":"所以這個第一個上班不要遲到我是建議這樣舉我桃園做例子我們每天有四十幾萬人進到雙北一天四十六萬人進來雙北那我們現在的課題都說桃園的人要來雙北上班那沒辦法因為桃園的就業機會實際上都要來雙北上班要到該關"},{"start":860.211,"end":868.901,"text":"首都圈啊北北幾島的這些移動的課題我知道現在有台鐵 桃園有桃園捷運有高鐵可是很多人還是要開車走高速公路"},{"start":870.626,"end":892.239,"text":"阿投降自己要去捷運喔 現在規劃都是內部啦投降來電 投降來電移動的數量不多啦重點是投降要往雙北 往新北 往台北不對啦 你回去到協調 到整合一下有沒有辦法啦 新北市的啦 新北市的捷運喔繞一繞 再繞一繞 繞一繞 跑來我們投降啦"},{"start":893.76,"end":894.881,"text":"阿我們投行一直很勤勞選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇選擇"},{"start":920.663,"end":947.76,"text":"我知道我們學校有通學校 交通鄰近區有國土署的 有交通補助的嘛這條請卓院長兩個補充 這預算絕對不能減去這要越做越多 現在不是每一個學校都有做因為有優先順序 經費也有限我們去一份看人家做得很好的卓院長 這條是不是高學生要幫我們補一下我們第一年有400處的學校 周邊會把它教室完成"},{"start":951.633,"end":955.264,"text":"好 谢谢王毅川伟 谢谢卓院长 相关部会首长"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":194,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（15時1分）謝謝院長，我們是不是請卓院長還有內政部、農業部的部長？"],["主席：麻煩再請卓院長、內政部、農業部備詢。"],["卓院長榮泰：委員好。"],["王委員義川：好。關於這一次花蓮光復鄉的事情，我們來釐清幾件事情，我想先請問農業部，我們是不是有一個「堰塞湖警戒、監測及撤離與演練方案」？"],["陳部長駿季：是。"],["王委員義川：這是什麼時候發布的？"],["陳部長駿季：這是在莫拉克颱風過後為了因應很多相關的情形，所以在98年的時候報院核定的一個方案。"],["王委員義川：那全臺灣所有縣市長跟縣市政府應該都知道有這件事？"],["陳部長駿季：對。"],["王委員義川：好。第二個，請問劉部長，花蓮縣平均每兩年都有把一個花蓮縣地區災害防救計畫報到內政部或消防署，現在這些資料在網路上都找得到，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["王委員義川：好，我現在給各位看的這個是113年1月的版本，這是目前在網路上花蓮縣最新的版本，在他們的報告的第三篇第三章第三節裡頭就有關於土石流、關於大規模的崩塌災害要做的事情，這一本報告是花蓮縣政府寫的。劉部長，每一個縣市都有這樣的計畫？"],["劉部長世芳：是的，每兩年要更新一次。"],["王委員義川：每兩年更新一次？"],["劉部長世芳：最近一次更新應該是114年。"],["王委員義川：好，這是113年的初稿，114年應該要有新的版本。"],["劉部長世芳：是的。"],["王委員義川：這個計畫也是中央補助各縣市的協力團隊一起來完成的，這一本報告有七、八百頁，然後這些是花蓮縣政府自己擬的，對不對？"],["劉部長世芳：對，但它也是參考各種不同的實務經驗，裡面有22種不同的災害。"],["王委員義川：好，在裡面也有各式各樣災害的疏散計畫？"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["王委員義川：好，所以我就請問農業部長，關於這一次的這個災害，花蓮縣政府在9月的時候有沒有開會討論疏散計畫？有沒有在應變中心開會的時候說他們有疏散計畫？實際上，光復鄉大馬村的村長說：有啊！中央打電話給我們叫我們趕快疏散啊！","這到底是怎麼回事？你可不可以還原一下？因為今天早上傅崐萁總召一副就是我們也不知道要怎麼疏散，你們中央都沒有幫忙，我們也不知道要怎麼疏散。明明這個計畫都寫在這裡，而且都是自己寫的，寫到最後大馬村的村長……因為9月份我有看到一個文件，花蓮縣光復鄉各村、每一村都有一張疏散的地圖，我相信那個村長就是拿那個疏散地圖，把他們的村民疏散到該去的地方，對不對？"],["陳部長駿季：是，我跟委員報告，從726針對堰塞湖成立專案小組以來，我們不斷地把從監測裡面得到的數據跟地方政府分享、跟公所分享，在樺加沙颱風之前最近的一次是9月17日，17日的時候他們縣政府有開相關的會議，那個會議最主要是要因應9月19日跨部會的專案小組要去提報。因為之前有跟縣政府提到他們要儘快研擬相關的計畫，但是他們一直沒辦法完整的研擬出來，所以才在9月17日……"],["王委員義川：請問一下，他們研擬不出來有沒有求救？有沒有叫中央幫忙一下，因為他們就是寫不出來？"],["陳部長駿季：因為9月17日開會，它的會議紀錄是9月30日才提供的，我們從它的會議紀錄裡面來看，其實有一個非常重要的就是那時候還沒有樺加沙颱風，所以那個時候的一些情境，我們一直希望它儘快……"],["王委員義川：這個公文往返就算了啦！劉部長，你在應變中心當指揮官，花蓮縣不管是縣長、副縣長參加會議，不管是視訊會議或什麼會議就對了，在這個過程當中，他們到底有沒有說花蓮縣真的沒辦法處理8,000人，1,800戶真的沒辦法處理，拜託中央幫他們一下？這樣的求救訊號到底有沒有出來？"],["劉部長世芳：報告王委員，我是在樺加沙颱風海警的時候就在中央處理有關災害應變的部分，也就是全臺灣各地，臺東、屏東都加在內，其實我們都陸陸續續通知它有這件事情需要好好的處理，所以我舉一個很簡單的例子，在9月22日下午3點的時候……"],["王委員義川：22日是星期一。"],["劉部長世芳：對，總統和行政院長都有到中央災害應變中心，那時候是由顏新章副縣長來跟總統做視訊上面的對話，我很簡單的把文字跟委員報告一下：總統、院長、中央的長官，大家午安，花蓮縣副縣長顏新章報告，因為我們縣長在國外，馬上要趕回來了，所以要跟總統報告，對於樺加沙颱風的部分有其他的黃色警戒，但是比較重要的是，有關堰塞湖撤離的部分，我們的兵力預置在3個鄉鎮，光復鄉、鳳林鎮和萬榮鄉，總共有國防部派出的中型戰術輪車8輛、救護車1輛、兵力54名、警消協作105名，還有替代役13名，總共157名可以隨時申請。收容人數的部分，3個鄉鎮總共有1,837戶（這是我們告訴他的），實際居住人數6,843人，收容地點有光復商職、鳳林鎮樂活會館、萬榮國小活動中心，3處收容總共有130人，依親有1,365人，垂直避難有5,348人。也就是顏新章副縣長在災害應變中心跟總統、院長在做視訊會議的時候，他已經明確告訴我們包括收容安置、依親跟垂直避難，他們都已經準備好了。"],["王委員義川：這樣聽你說起來，不管是總統主持或你主持的、各式各樣的指揮官主持的時候，花蓮縣政府並沒有非常具體地說自己真的沒辦法，事後再來說現在真的沒辦法。這個事情我覺得中央應變中心改天再開會的時候，各縣市的代表如果說沒有問題的話，麻煩你們再確認一下，這樣好不好？再確定一下，不然唸歸唸，都說沒問題，我們的疏散計畫都做好了，剛才你唸的都是具體的數字，都已經到個位數了。"],["卓院長榮泰：報告委員，我們在跟縣市首長視訊的過程，總統、我或是指揮官都會再講一句話：「縣市還有沒有需要中央協助支援？」都會講這句話。"],["王委員義川：對嘛！這一題我想大家把事實釐清。","接下來我是不是請教育部長，好不好？"],["主席：麻煩請教育部長備詢。"],["王委員義川：先問一下卓院長，卓院長，你知道什麼叫抖音吧？"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員義川：有時候手機不小心會按到抖音的影片，你有沒有按到過？"],["卓院長榮泰：有。"],["王委員義川：不小心按到，也不知道從哪裡來的就對了，可能看臉書、看什麼就會遇到。"],["卓院長榮泰：有時候它要我進入它的程式才看得到，我就從來不會進去。"],["王委員義川：對，可是它有些已經剪成短片了。"],["卓院長榮泰：是。"],["王委員義川：抖音對兒童、對少年都會有很大的影響，這句話部長認同吧？"],["鄭部長英耀：國內外的研究確實有很多都證實了。"],["王委員義川：對於我們現在小學生用抖音的狀況，部長了解嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們在學術網路上、在校園裡面它是被隔離的。"],["王委員義川：那學生在學校裡，如果有機會玩手機玩到抖音，你們怎麼處理啊？"],["鄭部長英耀：目前我們確實也透過三大通訊業者，在開學跟校園一些活動來協助家長，我們會指導他，甚至有QR Code教他怎麼處理是可以隔離的。"],["王委員義川：你也知道有時候青少年的孩子「白目、白目的」，你叫他不要用，他就故意要用，這就是小朋友嘛！"],["鄭部長英耀：在同儕裡面確實他也很容易……"],["王委員義川：他可能不知道事情的嚴重性，就這樣使用了。"],["鄭部長英耀：是。"],["王委員義川：我是建議這樣啦！教育部你們研究一下。院長，你也可以表達你的看法，還是你要回去研議，都可以。我們現在的國中小，剛才部長說只有在學術網路上隔離，可能學校的電腦連接不出去，但是小朋友在家裡、在學校，有時候會開放他使用手機的時間，這個時候如果他用抖音，就糟糕啦！因為所有小朋友的個資都會洩漏出去，有些小朋友為了10塊、100塊、200塊零用錢，一些有的沒的都有可能去做，這些事情可不可以這樣啦，就是學校的老師跟小朋友在使用抖音上，我講的是在校園裡面，如果回家後，他父母要怎麼讓他使用手機，這個我們管不到，但國中、國小的老師跟小朋友在校園裡頭，不管用手機還是什麼的，連老師都要研究看看，看可不可以儘量不要使用，還是要如何使用，不要再讓這些小朋友從小就在用抖音。部長、院長，這有辦法回去研究看看嗎？"],["鄭部長英耀：我們會來研議看怎麼樣處理，讓老師不要再用抖音來指導學生，我想這一個應該要避免。"],["王委員義川：因為老師是成年人，如果他自己要使用抖音，我們也不好管，因為老師也是成年人，他自己玩，但小朋友就不一定了，所以老師跟學生之間在校園裡頭，再強調一下是在校園裡頭，不要搞到後來變怎麼樣你知道嗎？搞到後來小朋友的暑假作業用拍抖音來交影音作業，在學校裡面放抖音，老師又不阻擋，這樣整個就毀掉了，所以這個事情請教育部……"],["鄭部長英耀：我們來研究看怎麼樣讓老師在這裡能夠建立共識，不要再用抖音來……"],["王委員義川：OK。這也要尊重學校的老師、尊重國中小的老師，請教師團體也幫忙研究看看，我是有這樣的建議，研究看看，看要怎麼樣來處理……"],["鄭部長英耀：謝謝委員提醒。"],["王委員義川：不然我覺得這件事情越來越嚴重，好不好？"],["卓院長榮泰：好，謝謝委員。"],["王委員義川：接下來我們請交通部跟內政部，好不好？"],["主席：麻煩請交通部長、內政部長備詢。"],["王委員義川：不好意思，麻煩請內政部長再次上臺。陳部長，我們這一次在花蓮光復救災的時候，有一組人到現在都還沒有被感謝到，那就是臺鐵。"],["陳部長世凱：是。"],["王委員義川：臺鐵從第一天開始就有很多人進出，有的還排隊買票，後來臺鐵反應非常快，說光復站自由進出啦！反正就給你一張單子，代表你是從這站進去或從這站出來的，到臺北的等回到臺北後再來算，到高雄的等回到高雄再算，是不是這樣？"],["陳部長世凱：是，沒錯。"],["王委員義川：好，臺鐵已經公司化，你現在又叫他們自負盈虧，賠錢又被人罵，像這一次我就覺得他們應該賠很多錢，因為現在從光復站進出的閘門沒怎麼在管制嘛！"],["陳部長世凱：對，沒錯。"],["王委員義川：所以有的臺鐵員工都要加班，因為你們加開班次，有的要加班，連清掃人員也都加班啊！你們要去研究如何讓臺鐵的員工，不要說公司，而是員工，看要怎麼跟他們補償一下。回去研究一下，好不好？"],["陳部長世凱：好。報告委員，這個部分我們一定會來研究，一方面是針對員工的部分，這一次不只是加班，而且我們從其他地方調了很多人員來這邊協助，全部都會給他們一些嘉獎，並且給他們該有的加班費，一定都會給他們獎勵，這個部分沒問題；那給公司獎勵跟協助的部分，我們也會來研議。"],["王委員義川：好啦！你們對國營事業有一個考成，那一塊拜託幫忙一下……"],["陳部長世凱：是，會來協助他們。"],["王委員義川：不然大家都在感謝，但沒有人感謝臺鐵啊！"],["卓院長榮泰：有、有、有。"],["陳部長世凱：有，非常感謝，我自己也去那邊好幾次，很感謝那邊的同仁。"],["王委員義川：有啦！這要協助他們。","接下來是交通問題，在很多調查當中，交通問題都是各縣市最有感的課題。交通問題我個人建議是這樣，主要是上班不要遲到，下班的時間大家不一定；第二，小朋友跟老人在學校周邊要安全；第三，回家要有停車位，現在回家之後，住公寓的都沒有停車位的比較多。對於第一個上班不要遲到，我是建議這樣，舉桃園做例子，我們每天有四十幾萬人進到雙北，桃園一天有46萬人進來雙北，我們現在的課題就是桃園人要來雙北上班，沒辦法，因為桃園的就業機會、薪水比較低，都來雙北上班，要協助解決首都圈北北基桃這些移動的課題。我知道現在有臺鐵，桃園有桃園捷運、有高鐵，可是很多人還是要開車上高速公路，桃園自己要蓋捷運，現在規劃都在內部，在桃園裡面，桃園裡面移動的數量不多，重點是桃園要往雙北、往新北、往臺北。部長，你回去幫忙協調、整合一下，有沒有辦法在新北市的捷運拉一條尾巴，好幾條，拉一條尾巴接來我們桃園，我們桃園直接接上去就進到雙北，進到雙北就四通八達，不然一直蓋在桃園裡面，因為桃園人現在上班，最難過的就是來雙北都塞車，這件事情你再回去研究一下。"],["陳部長世凱：報告委員，這個我們來努力，這是正確的方向。"],["王委員義川：我相信桃園市政府這邊我來溝通，讓你們研究這個部分，這樣可以嗎？"],["陳部長世凱：好，沒有問題，這是正確的方向，我們來努力。"],["王委員義川：好。再來，內政部部長，我知道很多學校有通學巷、交通寧靜區，有國土署做的、有交通部做的。"],["劉部長世芳：對。"],["王委員義川：這個部分請卓院長與兩位部長，預算絕對不能減少，這要越做越多，現在不是每一個學校都有做，因為有優先順序，經費也有限，我們去日本看人家做得很好。卓院長，這部分是不是到時候幫我們補一下？"],["卓院長榮泰：我們第一年有400處的學校周邊會把它加速完成改善，我們會持續增加這個數量，一起努力！"],["王委員義川：OK，好，謝謝。"],["卓院長榮泰：謝謝委員。"],["主席：謝謝王義川委員質詢，謝謝卓院長與相關部會首長備詢，謝謝。","接下來請徐富癸委員質詢，林沛祥委員請準備。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":299,"meet_id":"院會-11-4-3","speakers":["韓國瑜","江啟臣","傅崐萁","翁曉玲","林倩綺","林國成","陳培瑜","劉書彬","王義川","徐富癸","林沛祥","黃秀芳","徐欣瑩","楊曜"],"page_start":215,"meetingDate":["2025-10-07"],"gazette_id":"1147801","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147801_00009","1147801_00010"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期第3次會議紀錄","content":"施政質詢\n對行政院院長施政報告繼續質詢─繼續質詢─","agenda_id":"1147801_00014"}}}