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\"我再提一個啦矯正協會有說啦監獄不是魔法洗衣機啦不可能洗白所有的犯罪這句話我完全認同不太可能就是說你監獄進去你就完全的洗白但是呢我們還是要有所作為啊否則現在的監獄變成什麼現在監獄不是洗衣機欸現在監獄變成冷凍庫拿進去冰\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 282.955, \"end\": 283.095, \"score\": 0.999}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 283.095, \"end\": 283.335, \"score\": 0.916}, {\"word\": \"提\", \"start\": 283.335, \"end\": 283.455, \"score\": 0.956}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 283.455, \"end\": 283.696, \"score\": 0.919}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 283.696, \"end\": 284.957, \"score\": 0.968}, {\"word\": \"矯\"}, {\"word\": \"正\", \"start\": 284.957, \"end\": 285.417, \"score\": 0.872}, {\"word\": \"協\"}, {\"word\": \"會\"}, {\"word\": \"有\", \"start\": 285.417, \"end\": 285.797, \"score\": 0.945}, {\"word\": \"說\"}, {\"word\": \"啦\", \"start\": 285.797, \"end\": 286.418, \"score\": 0.904}, {\"word\": \"監\"}, {\"word\": \"獄\"}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 286.418, \"end\": 286.558, \"score\": 1.0}, {\"word\": \"是\", \"start\": 286.558, \"end\": 286.698, \"score\": 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\"全\", \"start\": 946.625, \"end\": 946.805, \"score\": 0.911}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 946.805, \"end\": 946.926, \"score\": 0.834}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 946.926, \"end\": 947.006, \"score\": 0.731}, {\"word\": \"起\", \"start\": 947.006, \"end\": 947.146, \"score\": 0.858}, {\"word\": \"努\", \"start\": 947.146, \"end\": 947.286, \"score\": 0.895}, {\"word\": \"力\", \"start\": 947.286, \"end\": 947.627, \"score\": 0.977}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 947.627, \"end\": 948.307, \"score\": 0.87}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"兩\"}, {\"word\": \"位\", \"start\": 948.307, \"end\": 948.428, \"score\": 0.78}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 948.428, \"end\": 948.448, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:04,540 --> 00:00:08,770\n麻煩部長還有矯正署長好有請部長還有矯正署長喂委員好\n\n2\n00:00:20,803 --> 00:00:46,140\n兩位好我想我現在就提一個東西主要就是從苗栗這兩天發生的隨機殺人案我想來提一個就是其實我們現在看到一個女童她放學回家然後在馬路上面遇到這個隨機殺人犯其實這段時間我一直強調說判死跟執行槍決有市警的必要性但是總是不被我們現在的政府所相信\n\n3\n00:00:48,653 --> 00:01:17,065\n這個女童的媽媽她其實她哭著說她說這個問題不能根治嗎這樣大家怎麼安心也就是我們的政府連保障我們民眾在路上走能夠安全的回到家連這個一點的保障都沒有辦法做到其實這是一個不及格的政府因為今天這個不是我們不能說這只是一個單純個案因為這個會造成全民的恐懼大家走在路上不知道什麼時候會無端被殺所以\n\n4\n00:01:17,685 --> 00:01:29,036\n政府應該要有所作業不是每一次都要等到又有人倒下了政府又出來講講話我記得2016年蔡英文那時候有提到社會安全網那2022年我們又再投了407億進去但是呢\n\n5\n00:01:32,011 --> 00:01:55,039\n民進黨執政這九年了到底有沒有辦法建立一個讓人民安心的制度還是這個制度一次又一次把一些高危險的暴力犯罪者又把他放走所以我在想說到底要多久之後我們才會重視到這個問題所以我想我今天提了幾個問題我大概是從司法體系矯正體系還有獨兵體系我想說來請教部長這個問題那我想\n\n6\n00:01:59,181 --> 00:02:23,997\n我想問一下部長就對這種嚴重反社會人格暴力犯罪已經入獄的那你們有沒有什麼預防他再犯的做法這部分那個在矯正署這邊在有做一些的一個輔導我想這部分輔導的一個有一些的密度那最主要的就是在一個\n\n7\n00:02:26,107 --> 00:02:44,605\n一個像我們了解這個案件我們大概會從各管司心理師輔導跟教會室來提供基礎的處理這個有16次總共16次有27個小時那進階處理有16次32個小時而且是這個個案它本來就是一個毒癮的一個犯者所以成癮的戒癮這部分家庭人際關係這部分我們對加強來做一個輔導\n\n8\n00:02:48,488 --> 00:03:13,348\n另外其實這個個案是沒有假釋的這是期滿才出去其實他出去我們有做一個因為他是否要所以我們有轉嫌給獨尾中心有苗栗縣的獨尾中心做一個輔導另外我們在耕寶這部分我們也有一些的聯絡我們安排那個就業或者就醫甚至參加一些的活動\n\n9\n00:03:13,888 --> 00:03:28,819\n他全部都拒絕謝謝部長所以沒有用這樣好了我先跟部長說一下部長其他國家在面對這種東西的時候其實他們都看到一個點就是有一些人不能再被放回街上\n\n10\n00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:51,678\n我們現在司法精神病院到現在還搞不定對不對我記得我還是學生的時候就已經在講司法精神病院了這麼多年過去了還是什麼都沒有所以這些人他刑滿放出去對確實依照現行我國的法律你沒有辦法對他怎麼樣但是就不作為嗎我跟各位我跟報告相關的細節我可能再用我的粉專寫好了因為時間不夠\n\n11\n00:03:52,839 --> 00:04:13,392\n加拿大他對於這種危險的犯罪他評估有高度風險再實施暴力犯罪他會有社區的長期監控的制度第二個澳洲的刑法他對於這種高風險的恐怖主義犯罪者而且還會構成威脅的人他也會有一些拘留令或延長監督令那德國他有一個保安監禁所以\n\n12\n00:04:13,852 --> 00:04:42,255\n是不是請各位你們用比較法的觀念下去看一下我國有沒有辦法引入相關的制度因為現在實體法是法務部你們在處理就是提出那個草案是不是我們可以比較一下其他國家的制度對於這種有可能再犯的高風險的人我們要有其他的引入其他制度讓我們執法者有法規可循不要讓這些人直接回到街上這是第一個第二個矯正體系的部分\n\n13\n00:04:42,955 --> 00:05:02,351\n我再提一個啦矯正協會有說啦監獄不是魔法洗衣機啦不可能洗白所有的犯罪這句話我完全認同不太可能就是說你監獄進去你就完全的洗白但是呢我們還是要有所作為啊否則現在的監獄變成什麼現在監獄不是洗衣機欸現在監獄變成冷凍庫拿進去冰\n\n14\n00:05:06,036 --> 00:05:22,615\n關個八年十年兵出來又是原來的那個樣子繼續在社會上犯罪那這個就失去了矯正機關它真正的目的所以我其實我前面幾個會期我一直在做的事情就是想辦法強化我國的司法的制度\n\n15\n00:05:24,577 --> 00:05:36,992\n所以我們去看了北鎖我們去看了地檢署當然我的每一個作為你今天來看每一個作為就是為了強化我國的司法制度當然我在做的那段時間我一直被一些\n\n16\n00:05:37,967 --> 00:05:55,557\n一些那個立委一些什麼說我什麼什麼政治施壓為了某個特定人其實我都後來我不甩這些人因為國家不能沒有人做事啊我們做的每一件事都被政治上色被政治貼標籤事實上你去看現在監所\n\n17\n00:05:56,497 --> 00:06:19,667\n教化的人力我看到的是1比138這是矯正協會提到的但是一個教會是要面對有時候超過200個受刑人然後你再扣掉一些行政責務甚至到1比300這個東西你矯正署就不足我們一直覺得說這個東西法務部你在政策上面是不是要有所\n\n18\n00:06:20,447 --> 00:06:37,187\n有所改善缺人補人缺錢補錢你那些需求你要送過來那我們來看是不是有需要我們當然會全力的支持這先跟部長說明一下所以上個會期我一直說借戶能力要增加還有矯正署的預算\n\n19\n00:06:38,228 --> 00:06:52,806\n要爭取或是說要怎麼樣去讓這些心理師教委是願意留在監所或給予這些監所的這介護人員實質的加班津貼這部分我想麻煩部長你能夠再回去研商好不好\n\n20\n00:06:53,406 --> 00:07:12,624\n這部分我也謝謝委員的支持就是我們人跟預算這部分我們再來做一個解釋好那這個我希望一個月內你看能不能夠跟那個人事總署延商一下或是一個半月好了把一些制度改善方案能夠給我只要有必要為了我國的司法制度以及人民的安全我會在國民黨民眾黨那邊\n\n21\n00:07:14,385 --> 00:07:33,224\n幫大家多講話該爭取的人力該爭取的預算我們就努力爭取這是全國人民安全的問題好不好部長這部分麻煩你因為我真的很覺得很累每次我們有所作為為了這個司法制度的作為到最後都被貼標籤說我們去看北索怎麼樣後來我發現一件事啊\n\n22\n00:07:33,985 --> 00:08:02,650\n不懂的人喊罪大聲不懂的人罵罪大聲他根本搞不清楚我國司法制度出了什麼問題當我們願意為這個司法制度改善再努力的時候他在旁邊給你貼政治標籤我想部長你一定聽得懂我在講什麼再麻煩部長能夠這樣做還有第三個建議就是毒品體系的部分我想這毒品的部分我們都知道毒品是那個萬惡的冤首其實這一次的這個隨機殺人的這個人其實他之前有用毒品的問題\n\n23\n00:08:03,490 --> 00:08:08,245\n那部長現在毒品人口你應該認為說這個如果關出來是誰在負責\n\n24\n00:08:12,851 --> 00:08:35,518\n這部分會轉接到毒尾毒品危害房子這個都一定會轉接的那似乎我們現在制度看起來是衛福部他們對不對但是我要跟部長報告一下因為社工不是警察他們跟我反映他們沒有偵查權沒有自治權但他們在面對第一線的毒品人口其實他們常常受到暴力威脅\n\n25\n00:08:36,298 --> 00:08:52,124\n所以我覺得這個部分可能你們也要注意一下毒品人口他出獄之後的問題好不好所以我今天要講的幾個重點我再重複一下高風險者出獄之後可以自由走動其實社會是不安的\n\n26\n00:08:52,964 --> 00:09:15,763\n就是你這些人沒有控管好就會有這個問題還有社工他沒有偵查的能力所以你要他獨自面對這些毒品人口其實是真的是辛苦還有社會安全網其實目前是真的很脆弱那這部分再麻煩部長那我想我剛剛提的那三個建議就是從司法從矯正從毒品人口控管這三個地方\n\n27\n00:09:16,463 --> 00:09:43,506\n再麻煩部長能夠給我一個半月內給我回覆就三個提議有什麼問題也可以請同仁打電話給我或我的助理我來跟你說我需要哪一些資料好不好部長我們必須要一起為這個國家的安全一起努力那最後我想提一個電子監控的問題因為最近一直有人來跟我們辦公室澄清電子監控的部分那包括像柯文哲也有反應說清晨接到電話\n\n28\n00:09:44,967 --> 00:10:00,396\n那除了柯文哲之外我也接到很多就是目前上電子腳療的人一直說那個整天就接到那個電話說什麼又有一些問題了那這個會發生一個狀況就是會變成這個系統好像狼來了\n\n29\n00:10:01,377 --> 00:10:19,779\n他一直喊說有異常有異常結果被監控的人也很累要一直接電話監控的那些公務員也很辛苦要不停的打電話不停的確認對方在哪裡所以表示系統出了大問題那我後來去了解很多個案子我發現他那個異常的訊號的比例真的很驚人\n\n30\n00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:37,830\n那這會發生一個問題就是監控者類的辦事我們這些辛苦的公務員類的辦事現在監控中心的主任是我同期的同學那他們很辛苦那被監控者的人權也發生問題啊我一直乖乖的依照法官的要求在那裡結果\n\n31\n00:10:38,911 --> 00:10:53,450\n他一直叫然後到最後這個監控中心又把這個異常的訊息一大串好幾頁的異常訊息交給法官結果法官一看到以為哇那這個人怎麼一直異常然後不小心又把他抓回去關了所以在被監\n\n32\n00:10:54,251 --> 00:11:22,170\n監控者也對他們工作量增加被監控者的人權也受損害這個我目前發現有這個很嚴重的原因那這個原因是導致我們設備的異常率太高我跟你說齁我之前去那個那個科控中心我發現一件事情我們目前的那個妥善率很低佼寮我4月7號去的時候220個有90個在代修所以耗損率是4成欸但是我們預算不是沒有編我看了一下414年是3500\n\n33\n00:11:25,512 --> 00:11:52,032\n法務部高檢署113年114年也有3653萬多那115年又更高了又到增加了3690萬然後法務部又多3650萬也就是說我們錢一直在邊增加那當然我們現在電子監控的人越來越多但是設備啊異常的那個市井的那個誤判率太高了那個東西是不對的就像\n\n34\n00:11:52,933 --> 00:12:19,813\n人在法庭開庭結果接到監控中心的電話說異常你現在人在哪裡他說我在開庭啊所以這個不對這個會變成狼來了一直狼來了結果到最後我們真正希望監控他的人因為一直狼來了結果科控中心的人也疲乏了就他去做壞事的時候我們以為是警訊的誤報結果有的人是乖乖在家裡卻一直不停的要回應這個\n\n35\n00:12:21,397 --> 00:12:49,013\n科控中心所以是不是請部長這個部分要趕快弄清楚所以人權的風險也是一個我剛講了會不會另外造成治安風險也會有因為有一些人我們真的需要監控他就因為一直的誤報讓我們對於他會不會有風險而造成判斷上面的批發我可不可以簡單的一個說明所以部長因為時間不夠了部長所以我還是我提幾個點是不是我們要\n\n36\n00:12:50,514 --> 00:13:16,850\n備註一個白名單就是他出庭啊就醫或長時間在搭那個海線的火車等等的這個只要有事先的預報那我們是不是應該要排除那再來就是要建立一個就是我們把很多個案收集有一些比較收訊弱收訊地方的那個地圖清單能夠把它列出來還有就是到底是設備沒電訊號斷線這個分級判斷要出來啦那錯誤的告警是不是\n\n37\n00:13:19,091 --> 00:13:42,179\n不是說你整個一定都要送給法院因為法官搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的預警那不然這樣子也會造成法官的誤判法官他在看資料的時候他也搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的示警哪一個是有風險他只看到一大串的示警之後他覺得這個人是不是真的要跑是不是一直在測試我想這個都是問題好部長\n\n38\n00:13:44,704 --> 00:14:03,982\n那個所謂那個維修那一部分因為那個電子腳環還有手環那個使用後我們一定要維修就像飛機那個飛行一定要做維修這個不是說就是壞掉那另外那個訊號一定告警的話為什麼它主要是離線告警或者是那個低電壓告警可能那個電量不夠\n\n39\n00:14:04,602 --> 00:14:29,430\n或者是因為因為他那個離線就是因為那個環境的時候是不是訊號沒辦法說就像我們手機有時候是因為大樓或是怎麼一個環境而造成那個訊號所以當然我們那個監控的人也他一定要打電話去說你到底人怎麼樣了要做一個確認嘛那我想這個委員關心的問題我們另外在這部長你剛講的都是我剛提出來的有一些地方訊號如果我們都可以理解但是呢\n\n40\n00:14:30,010 --> 00:14:57,799\n這個是不是你們自己應該要建立一個依據許多的個案把它累積出來哪個地方可能訊號落再來因為訊號落等等的問題你一直把它註記下去之後法官看到的時候會不會覺得這個人的訊號一直異常一直有問題所以他會認為他就有可能再回去關這個對於人權也有侵害各種情形包括故意破壞的都有這個當然我們要嚴懲那我想我們這個會執行面的問題我不可能知道那麼多\n\n41\n00:14:58,479 --> 00:15:08,787\n這個有關監控的部分兩個月內能夠給我一份報告那有什麼問題就請跟我們然後最後我跟你講可不可以麻煩為了社會安全\n\n42\n00:15:10,055 --> 00:15:34,370\n我們先在修法之前我們先做到一個就是你們看一下未來一年內可能會出獄的這個高風險的暴力犯罪可不可以先幫我們做到四個點第一個出獄前再犯風險的評估第二個強化心理跟行為的教化輔導這個麻煩你們強化我知道你們現在有在做第三個跨機關的通報各機關橫向的通報再來建立追攻跟加防機制\n\n43\n00:15:35,130 --> 00:15:48,448\n這些你不能放生他啦放生他出去他再犯我們就倒楣了人民就倒楣了好不好好那就麻煩部長麻煩組長大家我們一起努力為了國家為人民的安全我們一起努力好謝謝兩位謝謝好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n4540\t8770\t麻煩部長還有矯正署長好 有請部長還有矯正署長喂 委員好\n20803\t46140\t兩位好我想我現在就提一個東西主要就是從苗栗這兩天發生的隨機殺人案我想來提一個就是其實我們現在看到一個女童她放學回家然後在馬路上面遇到這個隨機殺人犯其實這段時間我一直強調說判死跟執行槍決有市警的必要性但是總是不被我們現在的政府所相信\n48653\t77065\t這個女童的媽媽她其實她哭著說她說這個問題不能根治嗎這樣大家怎麼安心也就是我們的政府連保障我們民眾在路上走能夠安全的回到家連這個一點的保障都沒有辦法做到其實這是一個不及格的政府因為今天這個不是我們不能說這只是一個單純個案因為這個會造成全民的恐懼大家走在路上不知道什麼時候會無端被殺所以\n77685\t89036\t政府應該要有所作業不是每一次都要等到又有人倒下了政府又出來講講話我記得2016年蔡英文那時候有提到社會安全網那2022年我們又再投了407億進去但是呢\n92011\t115039\t民進黨執政這九年了到底有沒有辦法建立一個讓人民安心的制度還是這個制度一次又一次把一些高危險的暴力犯罪者又把他放走所以我在想說到底要多久之後我們才會重視到這個問題所以我想我今天提了幾個問題我大概是從司法體系 矯正體系還有獨兵體系我想說來請教部長這個問題那我想\n119181\t143997\t我想問一下部長就對這種嚴重反社會人格暴力犯罪已經入獄的那你們有沒有什麼預防他再犯的做法這部分那個在矯正署這邊在有做一些的一個輔導我想這部分輔導的一個有一些的密度那最主要的就是在一個\n146107\t164605\t一個像我們了解這個案件我們大概會從各管司心理師輔導跟教會室來提供基礎的處理這個有16次總共16次有27個小時那進階處理有16次32個小時而且是這個個案它本來就是一個毒癮的一個犯者所以成癮的戒癮這部分家庭人際關係這部分我們對加強來做一個輔導\n168488\t193348\t另外其實這個個案是沒有假釋的這是期滿才出去 其實他出去我們有做一個因為他是否要 所以我們有轉嫌給獨尾中心有苗栗縣的獨尾中心做一個輔導另外我們在耕寶這部分我們也有一些的聯絡我們安排那個就業或者就醫甚至參加一些的活動\n193888\t208819\t他全部都拒絕 謝謝部長所以沒有用這樣好了 我先跟部長說一下部長 其他國家在面對這種東西的時候其實他們都看到一個點就是有一些人不能再被放回街上\n209600\t231678\t我們現在司法精神病院到現在還搞不定對不對我記得我還是學生的時候就已經在講司法精神病院了這麼多年過去了還是什麼都沒有所以這些人他刑滿放出去對 確實依照現行我國的法律你沒有辦法對他怎麼樣但是就不作為嗎我跟各位 我跟報告相關的細節我可能再用我的粉專寫好了因為時間不夠\n232839\t253392\t加拿大他對於這種危險的犯罪他評估有高度風險再實施暴力犯罪他會有社區的長期監控的制度第二個澳洲的刑法他對於這種高風險的恐怖主義犯罪者而且還會構成威脅的人他也會有一些拘留令或延長監督令那德國他有一個保安監禁所以\n253852\t282255\t是不是請各位你們用比較法的觀念下去看一下我國有沒有辦法引入相關的制度因為現在實體法是法務部你們在處理就是提出那個草案是不是我們可以比較一下其他國家的制度對於這種有可能再犯的高風險的人我們要有其他的引入其他制度讓我們執法者有法規可循不要讓這些人直接回到街上這是第一個第二個矯正體系的部分\n282955\t302351\t我再提一個啦矯正協會有說啦監獄不是魔法洗衣機啦不可能洗白所有的犯罪這句話我完全認同不太可能就是說你監獄進去你就完全的洗白但是呢我們還是要有所作為啊否則現在的監獄變成什麼現在監獄不是洗衣機欸現在監獄變成冷凍庫拿進去冰\n306036\t322615\t關個八年十年兵出來又是原來的那個樣子繼續在社會上犯罪那這個就失去了矯正機關它真正的目的所以我其實我前面幾個會期我一直在做的事情就是想辦法強化我國的司法的制度\n324577\t336992\t所以我們去看了北鎖我們去看了地檢署當然我的每一個作為你今天來看每一個作為就是為了強化我國的司法制度當然我在做的那段時間我一直被一些\n337967\t355557\t一些那個立委一些什麼說我什麼什麼政治施壓為了某個特定人其實我都後來我不甩這些人因為國家不能沒有人做事啊我們做的每一件事都被政治上色被政治貼標籤事實上你去看現在監所\n356497\t379667\t教化的人力我看到的是1比138這是矯正協會提到的但是一個教會是要面對有時候超過200個受刑人然後你再扣掉一些行政責務甚至到1比300這個東西你矯正署就不足我們一直覺得說這個東西法務部你在政策上面是不是要有所\n380447\t397187\t有所改善缺人補人 缺錢補錢你那些需求你要送過來那我們來看是不是有需要我們當然會全力的支持這先跟部長說明一下所以上個會期我一直說借戶能力要增加還有矯正署的預算\n398228\t412806\t要爭取 或是說要怎麼樣去讓這些心理師教委是願意留在監所或給予這些監所的這介護人員實質的加班津貼這部分我想麻煩部長你能夠再回去研商好不好\n413406\t432624\t這部分我也謝謝委員的支持就是我們人跟預算這部分我們再來做一個解釋好 那這個我希望一個月內你看能不能夠跟那個人事總署延商一下或是一個半月好了把一些制度改善方案能夠給我只要有必要為了我國的司法制度以及人民的安全我會在國民黨民眾黨那邊\n434385\t453224\t幫大家多講話該爭取的人力 該爭取的預算我們就努力爭取這是全國人民安全的問題好不好部長這部分麻煩你因為我真的很 覺得很累每次我們有所作為為了這個司法制度的作為到最後都被貼標籤說我們去看北索怎麼樣後來我發現一件事啊\n453985\t482650\t不懂的人喊罪大聲 不懂的人罵罪大聲他根本搞不清楚我國司法制度出了什麼問題當我們願意為這個司法制度改善再努力的時候他在旁邊給你貼政治標籤我想部長你一定聽得懂我在講什麼再麻煩部長能夠這樣做還有第三個建議就是毒品體系的部分我想這毒品的部分我們都知道毒品是那個萬惡的冤首其實這一次的這個隨機殺人的這個人其實他之前有用毒品的問題\n483490\t488245\t那部長現在毒品人口你應該認為說這個如果關出來是誰在負責\n492851\t515518\t這部分會轉接到毒尾 毒品危害房子這個都一定會轉接的那似乎我們現在制度看起來是衛福部他們對不對但是我要跟部長報告一下因為社工不是警察他們跟我反映他們沒有偵查權 沒有自治權但他們在面對第一線的毒品人口其實他們常常受到暴力威脅\n516298\t532124\t所以我覺得這個部分可能你們也要注意一下毒品人口他出獄之後的問題好不好所以我今天要講的幾個重點我再重複一下高風險者出獄之後可以自由走動其實社會是不安的\n532964\t555763\t就是你這些人沒有控管好就會有這個問題還有社工他沒有偵查的能力所以你要他獨自面對這些毒品人口其實是真的是辛苦還有社會安全網其實目前是真的很脆弱那這部分再麻煩部長那我想我剛剛提的那三個建議就是從司法從矯正從毒品人口控管這三個地方\n556463\t583506\t再麻煩部長能夠給我一個半月內給我回覆就三個提議有什麼問題也可以請同仁打電話給我或我的助理我來跟你說我需要哪一些資料好不好部長我們必須要一起為這個國家的安全一起努力那最後我想提一個電子監控的問題因為最近一直有人來跟我們辦公室澄清電子監控的部分那包括像柯文哲也有反應說清晨接到電話\n584967\t600396\t那除了柯文哲之外我也接到很多就是目前上電子腳療的人一直說那個整天就接到那個電話說什麼又有一些問題了那這個會發生一個狀況就是會變成這個系統好像狼來了\n601377\t619779\t他一直喊說有異常有異常結果被監控的人也很累要一直接電話監控的那些公務員也很辛苦要不停的打電話不停的確認對方在哪裡所以表示系統出了大問題那我後來去了解很多個案子我發現他那個異常的訊號的比例真的很驚人\n620680\t637830\t那這會發生一個問題就是監控者類的辦事我們這些辛苦的公務員類的辦事現在監控中心的主任是我同期的同學那他們很辛苦那被監控者的人權也發生問題啊我一直乖乖的依照法官的要求在那裡結果\n638911\t653450\t他一直叫 然後到最後這個監控中心又把這個異常的訊息一大串好幾頁的異常訊息交給法官結果法官一看到以為哇 那這個人怎麼一直異常然後不小心又把他抓回去關了所以在被監\n654251\t682170\t監控者也對他們工作量增加被監控者的人權也受損害這個我目前發現有這個很嚴重的原因那這個原因是導致我們設備的異常率太高我跟你說齁我之前去那個那個科控中心我發現一件事情我們目前的那個妥善率很低佼寮我4月7號去的時候220個有90個在代修所以耗損率是4成欸但是我們預算不是沒有編我看了一下414年是3500\n685512\t712032\t法務部高檢署113年114年也有3653萬多那115年又更高了又到增加了3690萬然後法務部又多3650萬也就是說我們錢一直在邊增加那當然我們現在電子監控的人越來越多但是設備啊異常的那個市井的那個誤判率太高了那個東西是不對的就像\n712933\t739813\t人在法庭開庭結果接到監控中心的電話說異常 你現在人在哪裡他說我在開庭啊所以這個不對這個會變成狼來了一直狼來了結果到最後我們真正希望監控他的人因為一直狼來了結果科控中心的人也疲乏了就他去做壞事的時候我們以為是警訊的誤報結果有的人是乖乖在家裡卻一直不停的要回應這個\n741397\t769013\t科控中心所以是不是請部長這個部分要趕快弄清楚所以人權的風險也是一個我剛講了會不會另外造成治安風險也會有因為有一些人我們真的需要監控他就因為一直的誤報讓我們對於他會不會有風險而造成判斷上面的批發我可不可以簡單的一個說明所以部長因為時間不夠了部長所以我還是我提幾個點是不是我們要\n770514\t796850\t備註一個白名單就是他出庭啊就醫或長時間在搭那個海線的火車等等的這個只要有事先的預報那我們是不是應該要排除那再來就是要建立一個就是我們把很多個案收集有一些比較收訊 弱收訊地方的那個地圖清單能夠把它列出來還有就是到底是設備沒電 訊號斷線這個分級判斷要出來啦那錯誤的告警是不是\n799091\t822179\t不是說你整個一定都要送給法院因為法官搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的預警那不然這樣子也會造成法官的誤判法官他在看資料的時候他也搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的示警哪一個是有風險他只看到一大串的示警之後他覺得這個人是不是真的要跑是不是一直在測試我想這個都是問題好 部長\n824704\t843982\t那個所謂那個維修那一部分因為那個電子腳環還有手環那個使用後我們一定要維修就像飛機那個飛行一定要做維修這個不是說就是壞掉那另外那個訊號一定告警的話為什麼它主要是離線告警或者是那個低電壓告警可能那個電量不夠\n844602\t869430\t或者是因為因為他那個離線就是因為那個環境的時候是不是訊號沒辦法說就像我們手機有時候是因為大樓或是怎麼一個環境而造成那個訊號所以當然我們那個監控的人也他一定要打電話去說你到底人怎麼樣了要做一個確認嘛那我想這個委員關心的問題我們另外在這部長你剛講的都是我剛提出來的有一些地方訊號如果我們都可以理解但是呢\n870010\t897799\t這個是不是你們自己應該要建立一個依據許多的個案把它累積出來哪個地方可能訊號落再來因為訊號落等等的問題你一直把它註記下去之後法官看到的時候會不會覺得這個人的訊號一直異常一直有問題所以他會認為他就有可能再回去關這個對於人權也有侵害各種情形包括故意破壞的都有這個當然我們要嚴懲那我想我們這個會執行面的問題我不可能知道那麼多\n898479\t908787\t這個有關監控的部分兩個月內能夠給我一份報告那有什麼問題就請跟我們然後最後我跟你講可不可以麻煩為了社會安全\n910055\t934370\t我們先在修法之前我們先做到一個就是你們看一下未來一年內可能會出獄的這個高風險的暴力犯罪可不可以先幫我們做到四個點第一個出獄前再犯風險的評估第二個強化心理跟行為的教化輔導這個麻煩你們強化我知道你們現在有在做第三個跨機關的通報各機關橫向的通報再來建立追攻跟加防機制\n935130\t948448\t這些你不能放生他啦放生他出去他再犯我們就倒楣了人民就倒楣了好不好好 那就麻煩部長麻煩組長大家我們一起努力為了國家為人民的安全我們一起努力好 謝謝兩位 謝謝好 謝謝\n","txt":"麻煩部長還有矯正署長好 有請部長還有矯正署長喂 委員好\n兩位好我想我現在就提一個東西主要就是從苗栗這兩天發生的隨機殺人案我想來提一個就是其實我們現在看到一個女童她放學回家然後在馬路上面遇到這個隨機殺人犯其實這段時間我一直強調說判死跟執行槍決有市警的必要性但是總是不被我們現在的政府所相信\n這個女童的媽媽她其實她哭著說她說這個問題不能根治嗎這樣大家怎麼安心也就是我們的政府連保障我們民眾在路上走能夠安全的回到家連這個一點的保障都沒有辦法做到其實這是一個不及格的政府因為今天這個不是我們不能說這只是一個單純個案因為這個會造成全民的恐懼大家走在路上不知道什麼時候會無端被殺所以\n政府應該要有所作業不是每一次都要等到又有人倒下了政府又出來講講話我記得2016年蔡英文那時候有提到社會安全網那2022年我們又再投了407億進去但是呢\n民進黨執政這九年了到底有沒有辦法建立一個讓人民安心的制度還是這個制度一次又一次把一些高危險的暴力犯罪者又把他放走所以我在想說到底要多久之後我們才會重視到這個問題所以我想我今天提了幾個問題我大概是從司法體系 矯正體系還有獨兵體系我想說來請教部長這個問題那我想\n我想問一下部長就對這種嚴重反社會人格暴力犯罪已經入獄的那你們有沒有什麼預防他再犯的做法這部分那個在矯正署這邊在有做一些的一個輔導我想這部分輔導的一個有一些的密度那最主要的就是在一個\n一個像我們了解這個案件我們大概會從各管司心理師輔導跟教會室來提供基礎的處理這個有16次總共16次有27個小時那進階處理有16次32個小時而且是這個個案它本來就是一個毒癮的一個犯者所以成癮的戒癮這部分家庭人際關係這部分我們對加強來做一個輔導\n另外其實這個個案是沒有假釋的這是期滿才出去 其實他出去我們有做一個因為他是否要 所以我們有轉嫌給獨尾中心有苗栗縣的獨尾中心做一個輔導另外我們在耕寶這部分我們也有一些的聯絡我們安排那個就業或者就醫甚至參加一些的活動\n他全部都拒絕 謝謝部長所以沒有用這樣好了 我先跟部長說一下部長 其他國家在面對這種東西的時候其實他們都看到一個點就是有一些人不能再被放回街上\n我們現在司法精神病院到現在還搞不定對不對我記得我還是學生的時候就已經在講司法精神病院了這麼多年過去了還是什麼都沒有所以這些人他刑滿放出去對 確實依照現行我國的法律你沒有辦法對他怎麼樣但是就不作為嗎我跟各位 我跟報告相關的細節我可能再用我的粉專寫好了因為時間不夠\n加拿大他對於這種危險的犯罪他評估有高度風險再實施暴力犯罪他會有社區的長期監控的制度第二個澳洲的刑法他對於這種高風險的恐怖主義犯罪者而且還會構成威脅的人他也會有一些拘留令或延長監督令那德國他有一個保安監禁所以\n是不是請各位你們用比較法的觀念下去看一下我國有沒有辦法引入相關的制度因為現在實體法是法務部你們在處理就是提出那個草案是不是我們可以比較一下其他國家的制度對於這種有可能再犯的高風險的人我們要有其他的引入其他制度讓我們執法者有法規可循不要讓這些人直接回到街上這是第一個第二個矯正體系的部分\n我再提一個啦矯正協會有說啦監獄不是魔法洗衣機啦不可能洗白所有的犯罪這句話我完全認同不太可能就是說你監獄進去你就完全的洗白但是呢我們還是要有所作為啊否則現在的監獄變成什麼現在監獄不是洗衣機欸現在監獄變成冷凍庫拿進去冰\n關個八年十年兵出來又是原來的那個樣子繼續在社會上犯罪那這個就失去了矯正機關它真正的目的所以我其實我前面幾個會期我一直在做的事情就是想辦法強化我國的司法的制度\n所以我們去看了北鎖我們去看了地檢署當然我的每一個作為你今天來看每一個作為就是為了強化我國的司法制度當然我在做的那段時間我一直被一些\n一些那個立委一些什麼說我什麼什麼政治施壓為了某個特定人其實我都後來我不甩這些人因為國家不能沒有人做事啊我們做的每一件事都被政治上色被政治貼標籤事實上你去看現在監所\n教化的人力我看到的是1比138這是矯正協會提到的但是一個教會是要面對有時候超過200個受刑人然後你再扣掉一些行政責務甚至到1比300這個東西你矯正署就不足我們一直覺得說這個東西法務部你在政策上面是不是要有所\n有所改善缺人補人 缺錢補錢你那些需求你要送過來那我們來看是不是有需要我們當然會全力的支持這先跟部長說明一下所以上個會期我一直說借戶能力要增加還有矯正署的預算\n要爭取 或是說要怎麼樣去讓這些心理師教委是願意留在監所或給予這些監所的這介護人員實質的加班津貼這部分我想麻煩部長你能夠再回去研商好不好\n這部分我也謝謝委員的支持就是我們人跟預算這部分我們再來做一個解釋好 那這個我希望一個月內你看能不能夠跟那個人事總署延商一下或是一個半月好了把一些制度改善方案能夠給我只要有必要為了我國的司法制度以及人民的安全我會在國民黨民眾黨那邊\n幫大家多講話該爭取的人力 該爭取的預算我們就努力爭取這是全國人民安全的問題好不好部長這部分麻煩你因為我真的很 覺得很累每次我們有所作為為了這個司法制度的作為到最後都被貼標籤說我們去看北索怎麼樣後來我發現一件事啊\n不懂的人喊罪大聲 不懂的人罵罪大聲他根本搞不清楚我國司法制度出了什麼問題當我們願意為這個司法制度改善再努力的時候他在旁邊給你貼政治標籤我想部長你一定聽得懂我在講什麼再麻煩部長能夠這樣做還有第三個建議就是毒品體系的部分我想這毒品的部分我們都知道毒品是那個萬惡的冤首其實這一次的這個隨機殺人的這個人其實他之前有用毒品的問題\n那部長現在毒品人口你應該認為說這個如果關出來是誰在負責\n這部分會轉接到毒尾 毒品危害房子這個都一定會轉接的那似乎我們現在制度看起來是衛福部他們對不對但是我要跟部長報告一下因為社工不是警察他們跟我反映他們沒有偵查權 沒有自治權但他們在面對第一線的毒品人口其實他們常常受到暴力威脅\n所以我覺得這個部分可能你們也要注意一下毒品人口他出獄之後的問題好不好所以我今天要講的幾個重點我再重複一下高風險者出獄之後可以自由走動其實社會是不安的\n就是你這些人沒有控管好就會有這個問題還有社工他沒有偵查的能力所以你要他獨自面對這些毒品人口其實是真的是辛苦還有社會安全網其實目前是真的很脆弱那這部分再麻煩部長那我想我剛剛提的那三個建議就是從司法從矯正從毒品人口控管這三個地方\n再麻煩部長能夠給我一個半月內給我回覆就三個提議有什麼問題也可以請同仁打電話給我或我的助理我來跟你說我需要哪一些資料好不好部長我們必須要一起為這個國家的安全一起努力那最後我想提一個電子監控的問題因為最近一直有人來跟我們辦公室澄清電子監控的部分那包括像柯文哲也有反應說清晨接到電話\n那除了柯文哲之外我也接到很多就是目前上電子腳療的人一直說那個整天就接到那個電話說什麼又有一些問題了那這個會發生一個狀況就是會變成這個系統好像狼來了\n他一直喊說有異常有異常結果被監控的人也很累要一直接電話監控的那些公務員也很辛苦要不停的打電話不停的確認對方在哪裡所以表示系統出了大問題那我後來去了解很多個案子我發現他那個異常的訊號的比例真的很驚人\n那這會發生一個問題就是監控者類的辦事我們這些辛苦的公務員類的辦事現在監控中心的主任是我同期的同學那他們很辛苦那被監控者的人權也發生問題啊我一直乖乖的依照法官的要求在那裡結果\n他一直叫 然後到最後這個監控中心又把這個異常的訊息一大串好幾頁的異常訊息交給法官結果法官一看到以為哇 那這個人怎麼一直異常然後不小心又把他抓回去關了所以在被監\n監控者也對他們工作量增加被監控者的人權也受損害這個我目前發現有這個很嚴重的原因那這個原因是導致我們設備的異常率太高我跟你說齁我之前去那個那個科控中心我發現一件事情我們目前的那個妥善率很低佼寮我4月7號去的時候220個有90個在代修所以耗損率是4成欸但是我們預算不是沒有編我看了一下414年是3500\n法務部高檢署113年114年也有3653萬多那115年又更高了又到增加了3690萬然後法務部又多3650萬也就是說我們錢一直在邊增加那當然我們現在電子監控的人越來越多但是設備啊異常的那個市井的那個誤判率太高了那個東西是不對的就像\n人在法庭開庭結果接到監控中心的電話說異常 你現在人在哪裡他說我在開庭啊所以這個不對這個會變成狼來了一直狼來了結果到最後我們真正希望監控他的人因為一直狼來了結果科控中心的人也疲乏了就他去做壞事的時候我們以為是警訊的誤報結果有的人是乖乖在家裡卻一直不停的要回應這個\n科控中心所以是不是請部長這個部分要趕快弄清楚所以人權的風險也是一個我剛講了會不會另外造成治安風險也會有因為有一些人我們真的需要監控他就因為一直的誤報讓我們對於他會不會有風險而造成判斷上面的批發我可不可以簡單的一個說明所以部長因為時間不夠了部長所以我還是我提幾個點是不是我們要\n備註一個白名單就是他出庭啊就醫或長時間在搭那個海線的火車等等的這個只要有事先的預報那我們是不是應該要排除那再來就是要建立一個就是我們把很多個案收集有一些比較收訊 弱收訊地方的那個地圖清單能夠把它列出來還有就是到底是設備沒電 訊號斷線這個分級判斷要出來啦那錯誤的告警是不是\n不是說你整個一定都要送給法院因為法官搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的預警那不然這樣子也會造成法官的誤判法官他在看資料的時候他也搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的示警哪一個是有風險他只看到一大串的示警之後他覺得這個人是不是真的要跑是不是一直在測試我想這個都是問題好 部長\n那個所謂那個維修那一部分因為那個電子腳環還有手環那個使用後我們一定要維修就像飛機那個飛行一定要做維修這個不是說就是壞掉那另外那個訊號一定告警的話為什麼它主要是離線告警或者是那個低電壓告警可能那個電量不夠\n或者是因為因為他那個離線就是因為那個環境的時候是不是訊號沒辦法說就像我們手機有時候是因為大樓或是怎麼一個環境而造成那個訊號所以當然我們那個監控的人也他一定要打電話去說你到底人怎麼樣了要做一個確認嘛那我想這個委員關心的問題我們另外在這部長你剛講的都是我剛提出來的有一些地方訊號如果我們都可以理解但是呢\n這個是不是你們自己應該要建立一個依據許多的個案把它累積出來哪個地方可能訊號落再來因為訊號落等等的問題你一直把它註記下去之後法官看到的時候會不會覺得這個人的訊號一直異常一直有問題所以他會認為他就有可能再回去關這個對於人權也有侵害各種情形包括故意破壞的都有這個當然我們要嚴懲那我想我們這個會執行面的問題我不可能知道那麼多\n這個有關監控的部分兩個月內能夠給我一份報告那有什麼問題就請跟我們然後最後我跟你講可不可以麻煩為了社會安全\n我們先在修法之前我們先做到一個就是你們看一下未來一年內可能會出獄的這個高風險的暴力犯罪可不可以先幫我們做到四個點第一個出獄前再犯風險的評估第二個強化心理跟行為的教化輔導這個麻煩你們強化我知道你們現在有在做第三個跨機關的通報各機關橫向的通報再來建立追攻跟加防機制\n這些你不能放生他啦放生他出去他再犯我們就倒楣了人民就倒楣了好不好好 那就麻煩部長麻煩組長大家我們一起努力為了國家為人民的安全我們一起努力好 謝謝兩位 謝謝好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:04.540 --> 00:08.770\n麻煩部長還有矯正署長好有請部長還有矯正署長喂委員好\n\n00:20.803 --> 00:46.140\n兩位好我想我現在就提一個東西主要就是從苗栗這兩天發生的隨機殺人案我想來提一個就是其實我們現在看到一個女童她放學回家然後在馬路上面遇到這個隨機殺人犯其實這段時間我一直強調說判死跟執行槍決有市警的必要性但是總是不被我們現在的政府所相信\n\n00:48.653 --> 01:17.065\n這個女童的媽媽她其實她哭著說她說這個問題不能根治嗎這樣大家怎麼安心也就是我們的政府連保障我們民眾在路上走能夠安全的回到家連這個一點的保障都沒有辦法做到其實這是一個不及格的政府因為今天這個不是我們不能說這只是一個單純個案因為這個會造成全民的恐懼大家走在路上不知道什麼時候會無端被殺所以\n\n01:17.685 --> 01:29.036\n政府應該要有所作業不是每一次都要等到又有人倒下了政府又出來講講話我記得2016年蔡英文那時候有提到社會安全網那2022年我們又再投了407億進去但是呢\n\n01:32.011 --> 01:55.039\n民進黨執政這九年了到底有沒有辦法建立一個讓人民安心的制度還是這個制度一次又一次把一些高危險的暴力犯罪者又把他放走所以我在想說到底要多久之後我們才會重視到這個問題所以我想我今天提了幾個問題我大概是從司法體系矯正體系還有獨兵體系我想說來請教部長這個問題那我想\n\n01:59.181 --> 02:23.997\n我想問一下部長就對這種嚴重反社會人格暴力犯罪已經入獄的那你們有沒有什麼預防他再犯的做法這部分那個在矯正署這邊在有做一些的一個輔導我想這部分輔導的一個有一些的密度那最主要的就是在一個\n\n02:26.107 --> 02:44.605\n一個像我們了解這個案件我們大概會從各管司心理師輔導跟教會室來提供基礎的處理這個有16次總共16次有27個小時那進階處理有16次32個小時而且是這個個案它本來就是一個毒癮的一個犯者所以成癮的戒癮這部分家庭人際關係這部分我們對加強來做一個輔導\n\n02:48.488 --> 03:13.348\n另外其實這個個案是沒有假釋的這是期滿才出去其實他出去我們有做一個因為他是否要所以我們有轉嫌給獨尾中心有苗栗縣的獨尾中心做一個輔導另外我們在耕寶這部分我們也有一些的聯絡我們安排那個就業或者就醫甚至參加一些的活動\n\n03:13.888 --> 03:28.819\n他全部都拒絕謝謝部長所以沒有用這樣好了我先跟部長說一下部長其他國家在面對這種東西的時候其實他們都看到一個點就是有一些人不能再被放回街上\n\n03:29.600 --> 03:51.678\n我們現在司法精神病院到現在還搞不定對不對我記得我還是學生的時候就已經在講司法精神病院了這麼多年過去了還是什麼都沒有所以這些人他刑滿放出去對確實依照現行我國的法律你沒有辦法對他怎麼樣但是就不作為嗎我跟各位我跟報告相關的細節我可能再用我的粉專寫好了因為時間不夠\n\n03:52.839 --> 04:13.392\n加拿大他對於這種危險的犯罪他評估有高度風險再實施暴力犯罪他會有社區的長期監控的制度第二個澳洲的刑法他對於這種高風險的恐怖主義犯罪者而且還會構成威脅的人他也會有一些拘留令或延長監督令那德國他有一個保安監禁所以\n\n04:13.852 --> 04:42.255\n是不是請各位你們用比較法的觀念下去看一下我國有沒有辦法引入相關的制度因為現在實體法是法務部你們在處理就是提出那個草案是不是我們可以比較一下其他國家的制度對於這種有可能再犯的高風險的人我們要有其他的引入其他制度讓我們執法者有法規可循不要讓這些人直接回到街上這是第一個第二個矯正體系的部分\n\n04:42.955 --> 05:02.351\n我再提一個啦矯正協會有說啦監獄不是魔法洗衣機啦不可能洗白所有的犯罪這句話我完全認同不太可能就是說你監獄進去你就完全的洗白但是呢我們還是要有所作為啊否則現在的監獄變成什麼現在監獄不是洗衣機欸現在監獄變成冷凍庫拿進去冰\n\n05:06.036 --> 05:22.615\n關個八年十年兵出來又是原來的那個樣子繼續在社會上犯罪那這個就失去了矯正機關它真正的目的所以我其實我前面幾個會期我一直在做的事情就是想辦法強化我國的司法的制度\n\n05:24.577 --> 05:36.992\n所以我們去看了北鎖我們去看了地檢署當然我的每一個作為你今天來看每一個作為就是為了強化我國的司法制度當然我在做的那段時間我一直被一些\n\n05:37.967 --> 05:55.557\n一些那個立委一些什麼說我什麼什麼政治施壓為了某個特定人其實我都後來我不甩這些人因為國家不能沒有人做事啊我們做的每一件事都被政治上色被政治貼標籤事實上你去看現在監所\n\n05:56.497 --> 06:19.667\n教化的人力我看到的是1比138這是矯正協會提到的但是一個教會是要面對有時候超過200個受刑人然後你再扣掉一些行政責務甚至到1比300這個東西你矯正署就不足我們一直覺得說這個東西法務部你在政策上面是不是要有所\n\n06:20.447 --> 06:37.187\n有所改善缺人補人缺錢補錢你那些需求你要送過來那我們來看是不是有需要我們當然會全力的支持這先跟部長說明一下所以上個會期我一直說借戶能力要增加還有矯正署的預算\n\n06:38.228 --> 06:52.806\n要爭取或是說要怎麼樣去讓這些心理師教委是願意留在監所或給予這些監所的這介護人員實質的加班津貼這部分我想麻煩部長你能夠再回去研商好不好\n\n06:53.406 --> 07:12.624\n這部分我也謝謝委員的支持就是我們人跟預算這部分我們再來做一個解釋好那這個我希望一個月內你看能不能夠跟那個人事總署延商一下或是一個半月好了把一些制度改善方案能夠給我只要有必要為了我國的司法制度以及人民的安全我會在國民黨民眾黨那邊\n\n07:14.385 --> 07:33.224\n幫大家多講話該爭取的人力該爭取的預算我們就努力爭取這是全國人民安全的問題好不好部長這部分麻煩你因為我真的很覺得很累每次我們有所作為為了這個司法制度的作為到最後都被貼標籤說我們去看北索怎麼樣後來我發現一件事啊\n\n07:33.985 --> 08:02.650\n不懂的人喊罪大聲不懂的人罵罪大聲他根本搞不清楚我國司法制度出了什麼問題當我們願意為這個司法制度改善再努力的時候他在旁邊給你貼政治標籤我想部長你一定聽得懂我在講什麼再麻煩部長能夠這樣做還有第三個建議就是毒品體系的部分我想這毒品的部分我們都知道毒品是那個萬惡的冤首其實這一次的這個隨機殺人的這個人其實他之前有用毒品的問題\n\n08:03.490 --> 08:08.245\n那部長現在毒品人口你應該認為說這個如果關出來是誰在負責\n\n08:12.851 --> 08:35.518\n這部分會轉接到毒尾毒品危害房子這個都一定會轉接的那似乎我們現在制度看起來是衛福部他們對不對但是我要跟部長報告一下因為社工不是警察他們跟我反映他們沒有偵查權沒有自治權但他們在面對第一線的毒品人口其實他們常常受到暴力威脅\n\n08:36.298 --> 08:52.124\n所以我覺得這個部分可能你們也要注意一下毒品人口他出獄之後的問題好不好所以我今天要講的幾個重點我再重複一下高風險者出獄之後可以自由走動其實社會是不安的\n\n08:52.964 --> 09:15.763\n就是你這些人沒有控管好就會有這個問題還有社工他沒有偵查的能力所以你要他獨自面對這些毒品人口其實是真的是辛苦還有社會安全網其實目前是真的很脆弱那這部分再麻煩部長那我想我剛剛提的那三個建議就是從司法從矯正從毒品人口控管這三個地方\n\n09:16.463 --> 09:43.506\n再麻煩部長能夠給我一個半月內給我回覆就三個提議有什麼問題也可以請同仁打電話給我或我的助理我來跟你說我需要哪一些資料好不好部長我們必須要一起為這個國家的安全一起努力那最後我想提一個電子監控的問題因為最近一直有人來跟我們辦公室澄清電子監控的部分那包括像柯文哲也有反應說清晨接到電話\n\n09:44.967 --> 10:00.396\n那除了柯文哲之外我也接到很多就是目前上電子腳療的人一直說那個整天就接到那個電話說什麼又有一些問題了那這個會發生一個狀況就是會變成這個系統好像狼來了\n\n10:01.377 --> 10:19.779\n他一直喊說有異常有異常結果被監控的人也很累要一直接電話監控的那些公務員也很辛苦要不停的打電話不停的確認對方在哪裡所以表示系統出了大問題那我後來去了解很多個案子我發現他那個異常的訊號的比例真的很驚人\n\n10:20.680 --> 10:37.830\n那這會發生一個問題就是監控者類的辦事我們這些辛苦的公務員類的辦事現在監控中心的主任是我同期的同學那他們很辛苦那被監控者的人權也發生問題啊我一直乖乖的依照法官的要求在那裡結果\n\n10:38.911 --> 10:53.450\n他一直叫然後到最後這個監控中心又把這個異常的訊息一大串好幾頁的異常訊息交給法官結果法官一看到以為哇那這個人怎麼一直異常然後不小心又把他抓回去關了所以在被監\n\n10:54.251 --> 11:22.170\n監控者也對他們工作量增加被監控者的人權也受損害這個我目前發現有這個很嚴重的原因那這個原因是導致我們設備的異常率太高我跟你說齁我之前去那個那個科控中心我發現一件事情我們目前的那個妥善率很低佼寮我4月7號去的時候220個有90個在代修所以耗損率是4成欸但是我們預算不是沒有編我看了一下414年是3500\n\n11:25.512 --> 11:52.032\n法務部高檢署113年114年也有3653萬多那115年又更高了又到增加了3690萬然後法務部又多3650萬也就是說我們錢一直在邊增加那當然我們現在電子監控的人越來越多但是設備啊異常的那個市井的那個誤判率太高了那個東西是不對的就像\n\n11:52.933 --> 12:19.813\n人在法庭開庭結果接到監控中心的電話說異常你現在人在哪裡他說我在開庭啊所以這個不對這個會變成狼來了一直狼來了結果到最後我們真正希望監控他的人因為一直狼來了結果科控中心的人也疲乏了就他去做壞事的時候我們以為是警訊的誤報結果有的人是乖乖在家裡卻一直不停的要回應這個\n\n12:21.397 --> 12:49.013\n科控中心所以是不是請部長這個部分要趕快弄清楚所以人權的風險也是一個我剛講了會不會另外造成治安風險也會有因為有一些人我們真的需要監控他就因為一直的誤報讓我們對於他會不會有風險而造成判斷上面的批發我可不可以簡單的一個說明所以部長因為時間不夠了部長所以我還是我提幾個點是不是我們要\n\n12:50.514 --> 13:16.850\n備註一個白名單就是他出庭啊就醫或長時間在搭那個海線的火車等等的這個只要有事先的預報那我們是不是應該要排除那再來就是要建立一個就是我們把很多個案收集有一些比較收訊弱收訊地方的那個地圖清單能夠把它列出來還有就是到底是設備沒電訊號斷線這個分級判斷要出來啦那錯誤的告警是不是\n\n13:19.091 --> 13:42.179\n不是說你整個一定都要送給法院因為法官搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的預警那不然這樣子也會造成法官的誤判法官他在看資料的時候他也搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的示警哪一個是有風險他只看到一大串的示警之後他覺得這個人是不是真的要跑是不是一直在測試我想這個都是問題好部長\n\n13:44.704 --> 14:03.982\n那個所謂那個維修那一部分因為那個電子腳環還有手環那個使用後我們一定要維修就像飛機那個飛行一定要做維修這個不是說就是壞掉那另外那個訊號一定告警的話為什麼它主要是離線告警或者是那個低電壓告警可能那個電量不夠\n\n14:04.602 --> 14:29.430\n或者是因為因為他那個離線就是因為那個環境的時候是不是訊號沒辦法說就像我們手機有時候是因為大樓或是怎麼一個環境而造成那個訊號所以當然我們那個監控的人也他一定要打電話去說你到底人怎麼樣了要做一個確認嘛那我想這個委員關心的問題我們另外在這部長你剛講的都是我剛提出來的有一些地方訊號如果我們都可以理解但是呢\n\n14:30.010 --> 14:57.799\n這個是不是你們自己應該要建立一個依據許多的個案把它累積出來哪個地方可能訊號落再來因為訊號落等等的問題你一直把它註記下去之後法官看到的時候會不會覺得這個人的訊號一直異常一直有問題所以他會認為他就有可能再回去關這個對於人權也有侵害各種情形包括故意破壞的都有這個當然我們要嚴懲那我想我們這個會執行面的問題我不可能知道那麼多\n\n14:58.479 --> 15:08.787\n這個有關監控的部分兩個月內能夠給我一份報告那有什麼問題就請跟我們然後最後我跟你講可不可以麻煩為了社會安全\n\n15:10.055 --> 15:34.370\n我們先在修法之前我們先做到一個就是你們看一下未來一年內可能會出獄的這個高風險的暴力犯罪可不可以先幫我們做到四個點第一個出獄前再犯風險的評估第二個強化心理跟行為的教化輔導這個麻煩你們強化我知道你們現在有在做第三個跨機關的通報各機關橫向的通報再來建立追攻跟加防機制\n\n15:35.130 --> 15:48.448\n這些你不能放生他啦放生他出去他再犯我們就倒楣了人民就倒楣了好不好好那就麻煩部長麻煩組長大家我們一起努力為了國家為人民的安全我們一起努力好謝謝兩位謝謝好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":4.54,"end":8.77,"text":"麻煩部長還有矯正署長好 有請部長還有矯正署長喂 委員好"},{"start":20.803,"end":46.14,"text":"兩位好我想我現在就提一個東西主要就是從苗栗這兩天發生的隨機殺人案我想來提一個就是其實我們現在看到一個女童她放學回家然後在馬路上面遇到這個隨機殺人犯其實這段時間我一直強調說判死跟執行槍決有市警的必要性但是總是不被我們現在的政府所相信"},{"start":48.653,"end":77.065,"text":"這個女童的媽媽她其實她哭著說她說這個問題不能根治嗎這樣大家怎麼安心也就是我們的政府連保障我們民眾在路上走能夠安全的回到家連這個一點的保障都沒有辦法做到其實這是一個不及格的政府因為今天這個不是我們不能說這只是一個單純個案因為這個會造成全民的恐懼大家走在路上不知道什麼時候會無端被殺所以"},{"start":77.685,"end":89.036,"text":"政府應該要有所作業不是每一次都要等到又有人倒下了政府又出來講講話我記得2016年蔡英文那時候有提到社會安全網那2022年我們又再投了407億進去但是呢"},{"start":92.011,"end":115.039,"text":"民進黨執政這九年了到底有沒有辦法建立一個讓人民安心的制度還是這個制度一次又一次把一些高危險的暴力犯罪者又把他放走所以我在想說到底要多久之後我們才會重視到這個問題所以我想我今天提了幾個問題我大概是從司法體系 矯正體系還有獨兵體系我想說來請教部長這個問題那我想"},{"start":119.181,"end":143.997,"text":"我想問一下部長就對這種嚴重反社會人格暴力犯罪已經入獄的那你們有沒有什麼預防他再犯的做法這部分那個在矯正署這邊在有做一些的一個輔導我想這部分輔導的一個有一些的密度那最主要的就是在一個"},{"start":146.107,"end":164.605,"text":"一個像我們了解這個案件我們大概會從各管司心理師輔導跟教會室來提供基礎的處理這個有16次總共16次有27個小時那進階處理有16次32個小時而且是這個個案它本來就是一個毒癮的一個犯者所以成癮的戒癮這部分家庭人際關係這部分我們對加強來做一個輔導"},{"start":168.488,"end":193.348,"text":"另外其實這個個案是沒有假釋的這是期滿才出去 其實他出去我們有做一個因為他是否要 所以我們有轉嫌給獨尾中心有苗栗縣的獨尾中心做一個輔導另外我們在耕寶這部分我們也有一些的聯絡我們安排那個就業或者就醫甚至參加一些的活動"},{"start":193.888,"end":208.819,"text":"他全部都拒絕 謝謝部長所以沒有用這樣好了 我先跟部長說一下部長 其他國家在面對這種東西的時候其實他們都看到一個點就是有一些人不能再被放回街上"},{"start":209.6,"end":231.678,"text":"我們現在司法精神病院到現在還搞不定對不對我記得我還是學生的時候就已經在講司法精神病院了這麼多年過去了還是什麼都沒有所以這些人他刑滿放出去對 確實依照現行我國的法律你沒有辦法對他怎麼樣但是就不作為嗎我跟各位 我跟報告相關的細節我可能再用我的粉專寫好了因為時間不夠"},{"start":232.839,"end":253.392,"text":"加拿大他對於這種危險的犯罪他評估有高度風險再實施暴力犯罪他會有社區的長期監控的制度第二個澳洲的刑法他對於這種高風險的恐怖主義犯罪者而且還會構成威脅的人他也會有一些拘留令或延長監督令那德國他有一個保安監禁所以"},{"start":253.852,"end":282.255,"text":"是不是請各位你們用比較法的觀念下去看一下我國有沒有辦法引入相關的制度因為現在實體法是法務部你們在處理就是提出那個草案是不是我們可以比較一下其他國家的制度對於這種有可能再犯的高風險的人我們要有其他的引入其他制度讓我們執法者有法規可循不要讓這些人直接回到街上這是第一個第二個矯正體系的部分"},{"start":282.955,"end":302.351,"text":"我再提一個啦矯正協會有說啦監獄不是魔法洗衣機啦不可能洗白所有的犯罪這句話我完全認同不太可能就是說你監獄進去你就完全的洗白但是呢我們還是要有所作為啊否則現在的監獄變成什麼現在監獄不是洗衣機欸現在監獄變成冷凍庫拿進去冰"},{"start":306.036,"end":322.615,"text":"關個八年十年兵出來又是原來的那個樣子繼續在社會上犯罪那這個就失去了矯正機關它真正的目的所以我其實我前面幾個會期我一直在做的事情就是想辦法強化我國的司法的制度"},{"start":324.577,"end":336.992,"text":"所以我們去看了北鎖我們去看了地檢署當然我的每一個作為你今天來看每一個作為就是為了強化我國的司法制度當然我在做的那段時間我一直被一些"},{"start":337.967,"end":355.557,"text":"一些那個立委一些什麼說我什麼什麼政治施壓為了某個特定人其實我都後來我不甩這些人因為國家不能沒有人做事啊我們做的每一件事都被政治上色被政治貼標籤事實上你去看現在監所"},{"start":356.497,"end":379.667,"text":"教化的人力我看到的是1比138這是矯正協會提到的但是一個教會是要面對有時候超過200個受刑人然後你再扣掉一些行政責務甚至到1比300這個東西你矯正署就不足我們一直覺得說這個東西法務部你在政策上面是不是要有所"},{"start":380.447,"end":397.187,"text":"有所改善缺人補人 缺錢補錢你那些需求你要送過來那我們來看是不是有需要我們當然會全力的支持這先跟部長說明一下所以上個會期我一直說借戶能力要增加還有矯正署的預算"},{"start":398.228,"end":412.806,"text":"要爭取 或是說要怎麼樣去讓這些心理師教委是願意留在監所或給予這些監所的這介護人員實質的加班津貼這部分我想麻煩部長你能夠再回去研商好不好"},{"start":413.406,"end":432.624,"text":"這部分我也謝謝委員的支持就是我們人跟預算這部分我們再來做一個解釋好 那這個我希望一個月內你看能不能夠跟那個人事總署延商一下或是一個半月好了把一些制度改善方案能夠給我只要有必要為了我國的司法制度以及人民的安全我會在國民黨民眾黨那邊"},{"start":434.385,"end":453.224,"text":"幫大家多講話該爭取的人力 該爭取的預算我們就努力爭取這是全國人民安全的問題好不好部長這部分麻煩你因為我真的很 覺得很累每次我們有所作為為了這個司法制度的作為到最後都被貼標籤說我們去看北索怎麼樣後來我發現一件事啊"},{"start":453.985,"end":482.65,"text":"不懂的人喊罪大聲 不懂的人罵罪大聲他根本搞不清楚我國司法制度出了什麼問題當我們願意為這個司法制度改善再努力的時候他在旁邊給你貼政治標籤我想部長你一定聽得懂我在講什麼再麻煩部長能夠這樣做還有第三個建議就是毒品體系的部分我想這毒品的部分我們都知道毒品是那個萬惡的冤首其實這一次的這個隨機殺人的這個人其實他之前有用毒品的問題"},{"start":483.49,"end":488.245,"text":"那部長現在毒品人口你應該認為說這個如果關出來是誰在負責"},{"start":492.851,"end":515.518,"text":"這部分會轉接到毒尾 毒品危害房子這個都一定會轉接的那似乎我們現在制度看起來是衛福部他們對不對但是我要跟部長報告一下因為社工不是警察他們跟我反映他們沒有偵查權 沒有自治權但他們在面對第一線的毒品人口其實他們常常受到暴力威脅"},{"start":516.298,"end":532.124,"text":"所以我覺得這個部分可能你們也要注意一下毒品人口他出獄之後的問題好不好所以我今天要講的幾個重點我再重複一下高風險者出獄之後可以自由走動其實社會是不安的"},{"start":532.964,"end":555.763,"text":"就是你這些人沒有控管好就會有這個問題還有社工他沒有偵查的能力所以你要他獨自面對這些毒品人口其實是真的是辛苦還有社會安全網其實目前是真的很脆弱那這部分再麻煩部長那我想我剛剛提的那三個建議就是從司法從矯正從毒品人口控管這三個地方"},{"start":556.463,"end":583.506,"text":"再麻煩部長能夠給我一個半月內給我回覆就三個提議有什麼問題也可以請同仁打電話給我或我的助理我來跟你說我需要哪一些資料好不好部長我們必須要一起為這個國家的安全一起努力那最後我想提一個電子監控的問題因為最近一直有人來跟我們辦公室澄清電子監控的部分那包括像柯文哲也有反應說清晨接到電話"},{"start":584.967,"end":600.396,"text":"那除了柯文哲之外我也接到很多就是目前上電子腳療的人一直說那個整天就接到那個電話說什麼又有一些問題了那這個會發生一個狀況就是會變成這個系統好像狼來了"},{"start":601.377,"end":619.779,"text":"他一直喊說有異常有異常結果被監控的人也很累要一直接電話監控的那些公務員也很辛苦要不停的打電話不停的確認對方在哪裡所以表示系統出了大問題那我後來去了解很多個案子我發現他那個異常的訊號的比例真的很驚人"},{"start":620.68,"end":637.83,"text":"那這會發生一個問題就是監控者類的辦事我們這些辛苦的公務員類的辦事現在監控中心的主任是我同期的同學那他們很辛苦那被監控者的人權也發生問題啊我一直乖乖的依照法官的要求在那裡結果"},{"start":638.911,"end":653.45,"text":"他一直叫 然後到最後這個監控中心又把這個異常的訊息一大串好幾頁的異常訊息交給法官結果法官一看到以為哇 那這個人怎麼一直異常然後不小心又把他抓回去關了所以在被監"},{"start":654.251,"end":682.17,"text":"監控者也對他們工作量增加被監控者的人權也受損害這個我目前發現有這個很嚴重的原因那這個原因是導致我們設備的異常率太高我跟你說齁我之前去那個那個科控中心我發現一件事情我們目前的那個妥善率很低佼寮我4月7號去的時候220個有90個在代修所以耗損率是4成欸但是我們預算不是沒有編我看了一下414年是3500"},{"start":685.512,"end":712.032,"text":"法務部高檢署113年114年也有3653萬多那115年又更高了又到增加了3690萬然後法務部又多3650萬也就是說我們錢一直在邊增加那當然我們現在電子監控的人越來越多但是設備啊異常的那個市井的那個誤判率太高了那個東西是不對的就像"},{"start":712.933,"end":739.813,"text":"人在法庭開庭結果接到監控中心的電話說異常 你現在人在哪裡他說我在開庭啊所以這個不對這個會變成狼來了一直狼來了結果到最後我們真正希望監控他的人因為一直狼來了結果科控中心的人也疲乏了就他去做壞事的時候我們以為是警訊的誤報結果有的人是乖乖在家裡卻一直不停的要回應這個"},{"start":741.397,"end":769.013,"text":"科控中心所以是不是請部長這個部分要趕快弄清楚所以人權的風險也是一個我剛講了會不會另外造成治安風險也會有因為有一些人我們真的需要監控他就因為一直的誤報讓我們對於他會不會有風險而造成判斷上面的批發我可不可以簡單的一個說明所以部長因為時間不夠了部長所以我還是我提幾個點是不是我們要"},{"start":770.514,"end":796.85,"text":"備註一個白名單就是他出庭啊就醫或長時間在搭那個海線的火車等等的這個只要有事先的預報那我們是不是應該要排除那再來就是要建立一個就是我們把很多個案收集有一些比較收訊 弱收訊地方的那個地圖清單能夠把它列出來還有就是到底是設備沒電 訊號斷線這個分級判斷要出來啦那錯誤的告警是不是"},{"start":799.091,"end":822.179,"text":"不是說你整個一定都要送給法院因為法官搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的預警那不然這樣子也會造成法官的誤判法官他在看資料的時候他也搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的示警哪一個是有風險他只看到一大串的示警之後他覺得這個人是不是真的要跑是不是一直在測試我想這個都是問題好 部長"},{"start":824.704,"end":843.982,"text":"那個所謂那個維修那一部分因為那個電子腳環還有手環那個使用後我們一定要維修就像飛機那個飛行一定要做維修這個不是說就是壞掉那另外那個訊號一定告警的話為什麼它主要是離線告警或者是那個低電壓告警可能那個電量不夠"},{"start":844.602,"end":869.43,"text":"或者是因為因為他那個離線就是因為那個環境的時候是不是訊號沒辦法說就像我們手機有時候是因為大樓或是怎麼一個環境而造成那個訊號所以當然我們那個監控的人也他一定要打電話去說你到底人怎麼樣了要做一個確認嘛那我想這個委員關心的問題我們另外在這部長你剛講的都是我剛提出來的有一些地方訊號如果我們都可以理解但是呢"},{"start":870.01,"end":897.799,"text":"這個是不是你們自己應該要建立一個依據許多的個案把它累積出來哪個地方可能訊號落再來因為訊號落等等的問題你一直把它註記下去之後法官看到的時候會不會覺得這個人的訊號一直異常一直有問題所以他會認為他就有可能再回去關這個對於人權也有侵害各種情形包括故意破壞的都有這個當然我們要嚴懲那我想我們這個會執行面的問題我不可能知道那麼多"},{"start":898.479,"end":908.787,"text":"這個有關監控的部分兩個月內能夠給我一份報告那有什麼問題就請跟我們然後最後我跟你講可不可以麻煩為了社會安全"},{"start":910.055,"end":934.37,"text":"我們先在修法之前我們先做到一個就是你們看一下未來一年內可能會出獄的這個高風險的暴力犯罪可不可以先幫我們做到四個點第一個出獄前再犯風險的評估第二個強化心理跟行為的教化輔導這個麻煩你們強化我知道你們現在有在做第三個跨機關的通報各機關橫向的通報再來建立追攻跟加防機制"},{"start":935.13,"end":948.448,"text":"這些你不能放生他啦放生他出去他再犯我們就倒楣了人民就倒楣了好不好好 那就麻煩部長麻煩組長大家我們一起努力為了國家為人民的安全我們一起努力好 謝謝兩位 謝謝好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":573,"blocks":[["吳委員宗憲：（9時35分）麻煩部長，還有矯正署長。"],["主席：有請部長，還有矯正署長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員好。"],["吳委員宗憲：兩位好。從苗栗這兩天發生的隨機殺人案我想提一件事情，我們現在看到，一個女童放學回家在馬路上面遇到隨機殺人犯。其實這段時間我一直強調，判死跟執行槍決有示警的必要性，但是總是不被我們現在的政府所相信。這個女童的媽媽哭著說，這個問題不能根治嗎？這樣大家怎麼安心？也就是我們的政府連民眾走在路上能夠安全地回到家這一點的保障都沒有辦法做到，其實這是一個不及格的政府，今天我們不能說這只是一個單純個案，因為這個會造成全民的恐懼，大家走在路上不知道什麼時候會無端被殺，所以政府應該要有所作為，不是每一次都要等到又有人倒下了，然後政府又出來講講話。","我記得2016年蔡英文那時候有提到社會安全網，2022年我們又再投了407億進去，但是民進黨執政九年了，到底有沒有辦法建立一個讓人民安心的制度，還是這個制度一次又一次的把一些高危險的暴力犯罪者放走？所以我在想，到底要多久之後我們才會重視這個問題？我今天提了幾個問題，大概是從司法體系、矯正體系還有毒品體系來請教部長，我想問一下部長，對於這種已經入獄的嚴重反社會人格暴力犯罪，你們有沒有什麼預防他再犯的作法？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分在矯正署有做一些輔導，我想這部分的輔導有一些密度，像這個案件我們大概會從個管師、心理師輔導，以及教誨師來提供基礎的處遇，像這個案件總共有16次、27個小時，而進階處遇有16次、32個小時，尤其是這個個案他本來就是一個毒癮患者，所以在成癮與戒癮、家庭人際關係的部分我們會加強輔導；另外，其實這個個案是沒有假釋的，是期滿才出去。"],["吳委員宗憲：我知道。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為他是毒癮患者，所以我們有轉銜給苗栗縣的毒危中心做輔導，另外在更保這部分我們也有一些聯絡，我們安排就業或者就醫，甚至參加一些活動，他全部都拒絕。"],["吳委員宗憲：謝謝部長，所以這些作為沒有用。部長，這樣好了，我先跟部長說一下，其他國家在面對這種事件的時候其實他們都看到一個點，就是有一些人不能再被放回街上，我們的司法精神病院到現在還搞不定，對不對？我記得我還是學生的時候就已經在講司法精神病院了，這麼多年過去了還是什麼都沒有，所以這些人刑滿後放出去，依照現行我國的法律，確實你沒有辦法對他怎麼樣，但是就不作為嗎？我跟各位報告，相關的細節我在我的粉專寫好了，因為時間不夠，加拿大對於這種危險的犯罪，他評估有高度風險再實施暴力犯罪的，會有社區的長期監控制度，這是第一個；第二個，澳洲的刑法對於這種高風險的恐怖主義犯罪者，而且還會構成威脅的人，也會有一些拘留令或延長監督令；德國有一個保安監禁的機制。所以是不是請各位用比較法的觀念去看一下，我國有沒有辦法引入相關的制度？因為現在實體法是法務部在處理，要提出修正草案，是不是我們可以比較一下其他國家的制度？對於這種有高風險可能再犯的人，我們要引入其他的制度，讓我們的執法者有法規可循，不要讓這些人直接回到街上，這是第一個。","第二個，有關矯正體系的部分，我再提一個，矯正協會有說：監獄不是魔法洗衣機，不可能洗白所有的犯罪。這句話我完全認同，不太可能你進去監獄，你就完全的洗白，但是我們還是要有所作為，否則現在的監獄變成什麼？現在監獄不是洗衣機，現在監獄變成冷凍庫，拿進去冰，關個八年、十年，冰出來又是原來的那個樣子，繼續在社會上犯罪，如此就失去了矯正機關真正的目的。","其實前面幾個會期我一直在做的事情就是想辦法強化我國的司法制度，所以我們去看了北所、我們去看了地檢署。當然你今天來看，我的每一個作為就是為了強化我國的司法制度，雖然我在做的那段時間，我一直被一些立委、一些人說我政治施壓，為了某個特定人，其實後來我都不甩這些人，因為國家不能沒有人做事，我們做的每一件事都被政治上色、被政治貼標籤，事實上，你去看現在監所的教化人力，我看到的是1比138，這是矯正協會提到的，但是一個教誨師有時候要面對超過200個受刑人，再扣掉一些行政雜務，甚至會到1比300，這個部分矯正署就是不足，我們一直覺得有關這個部分，法務部在政策上面是不是要有所改善？缺人補人、缺錢補錢，那些需求你要送過來嘛，我們來看是不是有需要，有需要我們當然會全力支持，這部分先跟部長說明一下。","所以上個會期我一直說戒護人力要增加，還有矯正署的預算要爭取，以及要怎麼樣讓這些心理師、教誨師願意留在監所，或給予這些監所的戒護人員實質的加班津貼，這個部分我想麻煩部長能夠再回去研商，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分也謝謝委員的支持，就是有關人跟預算的部分，我們再來做一個檢視。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，我希望一個月內你看能不能夠跟人事總處研商一下，一個半月好了，把一些制度改善方案給我。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：只要有必要，為了我國的司法制度以及人民的安全，我會在國民黨、民眾黨那邊幫大家多講話，該爭取的人力、該爭取的預算，我們就努力爭取，這是全國人民安全的問題，好不好？部長，這部分麻煩你。因為我真的覺得很累，每次我們有所作為，為了司法制度的作為，到最後都被貼標籤，說我們去看北所就是怎麼樣，後來我發現一件事，不懂的人喊最大聲、不懂的人罵最大聲，其實他根本搞不清楚我國司法制度出了什麼問題，當我們願意為這個司法制度改善在努力的時候，他在旁邊給你貼政治標籤，我想部長你一定聽得懂我在講什麼，再麻煩部長能夠這樣做。","還有第三個建議就是毒品體系的部分，我想有關毒品的部分，我們都知道毒品是萬惡的淵藪，其實這一次隨機殺人的這個人，他之前也有用毒品的問題，部長，現在的毒品人口，如果關出來是誰在負責？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這部分會轉介到毒品危害防制中心，這都一定會轉介的。"],["吳委員宗憲：好。似乎我們現在的制度看起來是衛福部，對不對？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這是衛福部，這是社家署的社會安全網的一環，就是不要漏接。"],["吳委員宗憲：但是我要跟部長報告一下，因為社工不是警察，他們跟我反映他們沒有偵查權、沒有制止權，他們在面對第一線的毒品人口時其實常常受到暴力威脅，所以我覺得這個部分可能你們也要注意一下毒品人口出獄之後的問題，好不好？","我今天要講的幾個重點我再重複一下：高風險者出獄之後可以自由走動，其實社會是不安的，這些人你沒有控管好，就會有這個問題；還有社工沒有偵查的能力，所以你要他獨自面對這些毒品人口，其實真的是辛苦；還有社會安全網其實目前是真的很脆弱，這部分再麻煩部長。我想我剛剛提的那三個建議，就是從司法、從矯正、從毒品人口控管，這三個部分，再麻煩部長一個半月內給我回復，有關這三個提議，有什麼問題，也可以請同仁打電話給我或我的助理，我來跟你說我需要哪些資料，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：好。"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，我們必須要為這個國家的安全一起努力。","最後我想提一個電子監控的問題，因為最近一直有人來跟我們辦公室陳情電子監控的部分，包括像柯文哲也有反映說清晨接到電話，除了柯文哲之外，我也接到很多陳情，就是目前上電子腳鐐的人一直說整天就接到那個電話，說什麼又有一些問題了，這會發生一個狀況，就是會變成這個系統好像「狼來了」，它一直喊說有異常、有異常，被監控的人也很累，要一直接電話，監控的那些公務員也很辛苦，要不停打電話、不停確認對方在哪裡，所以表示系統出了大問題。我後來去了解很多個案子，我發現那個異常訊號的比例真的很驚人，這會發生一個問題，就是監控者累得半死，也就是我們這些辛苦的公務員累得半死，現在監控中心的主任是我同期的同學，他們很辛苦；被監控者的人權也發生問題，他一直乖乖地依照法官的要求在那裡，結果它一直叫，最後監控中心又把這一大串、好幾頁的異常訊息交給法官，法官一看到就會以為這個人怎麼一直異常，不小心又把他抓回去關了。所以對於監控者，他們的工作量也增加，被監控者的人權也受損害，我目前發現這個很嚴重的原因是導因於我們設備的異常率太高。","我跟你說，我之前去科控中心有發現一件事情，我們目前的妥善率很低，我4月7號去的時候，220個腳鐐，有90個待修，所以耗損率是四成，我們預算不是沒有編，我看一下司法院114年是3,500萬，法務部高檢署113年、114年也有三千六百五十三萬多，115年又更高了，司法院增加了3,690萬，然後法務部又多3,650萬，也就是說我們編的錢一直在增加，當然現在受電子監控的人越來越多，但是設備異常示警的誤判率太高了，那個東西是不對的，就像人在法庭開庭，結果接到監控中心的電話說異常，詢問現在人在哪裡？他說我在開庭啊。所以這個不對，這個會變成狼來了，一直喊狼來了，結果到最後，我們真正希望監控的人，因為一直狼來了，科控中心的人也疲乏了，他去做壞事的時候，我們以為是警訊的誤報，而有的人是乖乖在家裡，卻要一直不停回應科控中心。所以是不是請部長，這個部分要趕快弄清楚？","人權的風險也是一個，我剛剛講的，會不會造成治安風險？也會有，因為有一些人，我們真的需要監控他，就因為一直誤報，讓我們對於他會不會有風險，會有判斷上面的疲乏。"],["鄭部長銘謙：我可不可以做一個簡單的說明？"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，因為時間不夠。部長，我提幾個點，是不是我們要備註一個白名單？就是他出庭、就醫或長時間在搭海線的火車等等的，這個只要有事先預報，我們是不是應該要排除？再來就是要建立一個清單，就是我們去蒐集很多個案，有一些收訊比較弱的地方的地圖清單能夠把它列出來，還有到底是設備沒電、訊號斷線，這個分級判斷要出來。錯誤的告警不是整個一定都要送給法院，因為法官搞不清楚哪一個是錯誤的預警……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我是不是可以做一個簡單的說明？"],["吳委員宗憲：這樣子也會造成法官的誤判，法官在看資料的時候，他也搞不清楚哪個是錯誤的示警、哪個是有風險，他只看到一大串的示警，他會覺得這個人是不是真的要跑，是不是一直在測試，我想這都是問題。部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：所謂維修的部分，因為電子腳環還有手環在使用後，我們一定要維修，就像飛機飛完之後一定要做維修，這不是說就是壞掉。另外為什麼訊號告警？它主要是離線告警或是低電量告警，可能電量不夠，或者是因為離線，就是可能在那個環境訊號沒辦法收，就像我們手機有時候是因為大樓或是什麼環境而造成訊號不良，所以當然我們的監控人員一定要打電話去問說你到底人怎麼樣了，要做一個確認。我想委員關心的問題，我們另外再做書面的……"],["吳委員宗憲：部長，你剛剛講的都是我剛剛提出來的，有一些地方訊號弱，我們都可以理解，但是這是不是你們自己應該要建立一個……"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們回去再來做一個整理。"],["吳委員宗憲：依據許多個案把資料累積出來，哪個地方可能訊號弱。再來，因為訊號弱等等的問題，你一直把他註記下去，法官看到的時候會不會覺得這個人的訊號一直異常、一直有問題，所以可能因為這樣，他就有可能再回去關，這個對於人權也有侵害。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這有各種情形，包括故意破壞的都有，有些是機器的問題……"],["吳委員宗憲：對，這個當然我們要嚴懲。"],["鄭部長銘謙：執行面的問題，我不可能知道那麼多，有關執行面的部分，我們另外再用書面做答復。"],["吳委員宗憲：有關監控的部分，兩個月內給我一份報告，有什麼問題，就請跟我們聯繫。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：最後，可不可以麻煩，為了社會安全，在修法之前，我們先做到以下幾點，就是你們看一下未來一年內可能會出獄的高風險的暴力犯罪，可不可以先幫我們做到四個點：第一個，出獄前再犯風險的評估；第二個，強化心理跟行為的教化輔導，這個麻煩你們強化，我知道你們現在有在做；第三個，跨機關的通報，各機關橫向的通報；再來，建立追蹤跟家訪機制，這些人你不能放生他，放生他出去，他再犯我們就倒楣了、人民就倒楣了。好不好？"],["林署長憲銘：是。"],["吳委員宗憲：好，那就麻煩部長、麻煩署長，我們一起努力，為了國家，為了人民的安全，我們一起努力。謝謝兩位，謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝吳宗憲委員。","剛剛不僅是吳宗憲委員，還有先前的黃國昌委員也一直提到關於電子科技設備有很多瑕疵還有很多待維修的地方，所以請法務部這邊務必要將這塊做好，不能讓這種電子腳鐐或電子科技設備在運作上面出現很嚴重的問題。","接下來請吳宗憲委員幫我一下，謝謝。"],["主席（吳委員宗憲代）：下一位請翁曉玲委員進行詢答。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","吳宗憲","王義川","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅智強","傅崐萁","賴士葆","林楚茵","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","林倩綺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00001"}}}