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\"心\", \"start\": 663.873, \"end\": 663.913, \"score\": 0.006}, {\"word\": \"一\", \"start\": 663.913, \"end\": 663.933, \"score\": 0.001}, {\"word\": \"下\", \"start\": 663.933, \"end\": 663.953, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 663.953, \"end\": 664.093, \"score\": 0.551}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 664.093, \"end\": 664.254, \"score\": 0.875}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 664.254, \"end\": 664.274, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 664.274, \"end\": 664.294, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:09,371 --> 00:00:28,922\n好謝謝主席我們請部長法務部部長委員早部長幾個問題請教在你們今天提出來的書面報告裡頭立法計畫裡頭有一個叫做嚴定饋政罪及影響力交易罪\n\n2\n00:00:30,563 --> 00:00:59,793\n那就是主要是對就是說不具公務員身份但是對公務員有影響力之人你是他的朋友啦他的金主啦他的什麼啦那你們現在想要去修刑法的這一個121條之一不法規正罪123條之一的影響力交易罪嘛是部長我請問一下如果有一個公務員他\n\n3\n00:01:01,099 --> 00:01:26,255\n預期半年後要退休半年後要退休那就有人去找他啊你半年後就退休啊退休啊六十幾歲對不對就年輕才有財政啊議案就繼續發揮一下啊不然我看創一個辦公室啊啊裝潢一下人工退休到有所在的地方去啊這三百萬拿去裝潢啦這樣他們朋友啦他們朋友\n\n4\n00:01:32,529 --> 00:01:37,032\n這樣講一個辦公室這樣半年要退休他接下來半年他還是公務員他還是公務員如果這樣的狀況算不算這個東西\n\n5\n00:01:48,899 --> 00:02:03,382\n他這部分影響利益交易罪就是意圖不法的一個利益因為公務機關的一個決定會有不法的利益就是受人之託嘛或者他主導他沒講個案啦沒講個案嘛沒講個案他就講\n\n6\n00:02:04,523 --> 00:02:06,825\n你就半年要退休看你這麼有財政對不對不然這樣就退休社會順心的創辦公室總統一個這三百萬我看大家合幣休倒三天一個你就給他收下去收下去收下去\n\n7\n00:02:23,398 --> 00:02:42,869\n這公務人員可以收嗎這個委員所提這個案例有可能比較是不法饋贈罪不法饋贈罪不法饋贈喔對就是因為去搜索這些因為植物有利害關係可能比較傾向於不法饋贈罪沒有沒利害關係喔我不跟你說我送的人不跟你說我要跟你拜託什麼那這樣會不會是公務員年政人員規範的一個問題\n\n8\n00:02:49,656 --> 00:03:14,469\n因為如果是親友的話當然是那個送的東西沒有限制嘛但是如果說有一些的植物上的一些的關係那個只能五百塊以下那另外沒有植物上的公務禮是三千塊以下如果他親友的話當然是親戚朋友父親要送給子女或者是兄弟之間或寶類那種的好反過來反過來有一個公務人員要退休了\n\n9\n00:03:19,523 --> 00:03:48,664\n現在他旁邊的人他就去找他朋友說欸以前我們這個也有哪個對你不錯呢你就要退休啊你也倒三工一下退休就沒地方可以去我們也找個辦公室給它裝潢一下我看你啦你很聰明啦不然我們這個喔你也平常都叫它大的大的現在就要退休啊這樣啦你倒三工一下多少都沒關係啦過去也都給你倒三工對不對你看一下人情義利倒三工一下\n\n10\n00:03:50,014 --> 00:04:18,483\n這會做什麼事他講完他的朋友講完那些人真的要我站起來還要站去辦公室這個要看有沒有跟職務有關嘛如果職務有關的話那當然是有犯罪的一個問題好這個案啦高雄這個個案所以你這因為你這條文你會說不具公務員身份但對公務員有影響力之人嘛這高雄這檢察官法官\n\n11\n00:04:19,124 --> 00:04:33,463\n在這一條上面的這種裁量判斷喔空間會很大有影響力之人啊這高雄看要怎麼用喔這個可能修法過程大家還要來討論一下喔這個喔因為這個還在\n\n12\n00:04:37,865 --> 00:04:55,457\n還在現在的審查中我想這部分他就會有意見讓這個構成要件更周延更合理更有可行性那能夠解決這些的實際上的問題那所以這個還沒有送到立法這還沒有審訊所以剛才委員提那個問題我想這個跟職務上有沒有利害關係所以\n\n13\n00:05:01,961 --> 00:05:13,852\n是不是這個是真的誠意有沒有利害關係有些還沒發生嘛因為他可能會有契約嘛啊契約口頭契約你啊辦人的人你也搞不清楚啊他們兩個有說什麼我們不知道嘛就是有口頭契約嘛啊第二個就是說他們兩個關係很好要保證你現在叫我們這個常識啊關係很好\n\n14\n00:05:22,284 --> 00:05:26,586\n我說你們兩個關係很好想像一下你們兩個關係很好結果告訴我沒有啦我們兩個關係不好公務在處理很順暢啦對啊我意思是說以後這個年年看啦年年看萬一他們定期大家會在吃飯啊有一個吃飯大家退休有一個聯誼會關係不錯啦不然可能大家會在吃飯這種年年看在這種有影響力的這個定義上可能後續要更周延或者我覺得\n\n15\n00:05:52,797 --> 00:06:04,150\n醫療這個事情大家亂念有些人去用羅茲罪名也有可能這個是一個第二個剛才蔣介石委員在講這個科技監控我請問一下現在去用科技監控的人他對他們家人要走去看電影覺得跟你說他這個不用\n\n16\n00:06:13,123 --> 00:06:27,276\n他最主要是當然有要告誡像港口海岸這些等等的機場的這些他會有做一個他如果是住在新庭他還可以跑去台東花蓮宜蘭一直都要渡假那個是沒問題啊沒問題他走台11線沒有問題\n\n17\n00:06:31,857 --> 00:06:55,185\n訊號的問題啦因為自相我們手機啊手機啊有些不是啦我就說我要去他有些告警會有我要去基隆廟口夜市靠近基隆港你知道嗎他有一些的違理喔就是說不能靠近他有一些警戒不能立刻他會跟他說明當事人知不知道他要帶這個之前當事人知不知道他不可以去基隆廟口吃夜市廟口是知道啊這個可以的啊\n\n18\n00:07:03,912 --> 00:07:21,739\n他那個有一個道法因為他有一個跟他交代就是說哪些地方是不能去的海濱亞當然是有一些的怕偷渡所以會有告知他可以去台東成功移港吃海鮮嗎\n\n19\n00:07:23,927 --> 00:07:44,415\n這個個案的話我沒辦法我現在的意思是說他現在在移動有些地方你告訴他不能去對不對那但是他沒有去那些地方他跟某些人接觸一個人講話講三點鐘一堆講我們也不知道一堆講我們也不知道你們也不會去查這個在監控裡頭都是合法的嘛\n\n20\n00:07:46,621 --> 00:07:53,984\n只要這個訊號能夠隨從我到我想這個都不會去打電話去跟他去跟他查說他在高雄過夜三天可以嗎\n\n21\n00:08:00,575 --> 00:08:27,754\n可以啊這個可以啊這個沒有在限制他的行動的就在台灣不要靠近因為他怕整個就是一個逃亡嘛因為有限制他的一個區域所以這個電子監控就是你們告訴他哪裡不能去因為他有些訊號的問題那他不能去如果去了你們就會預警了嗎就會預警他會告警了\n\n22\n00:08:28,427 --> 00:08:47,708\n第二剛剛有些委員提到你們的設備兩講兩講這樣啦我是覺得你們的名詞定義有問題名詞定義啦譬如說車開公里後要去保用嘛保用就進維修廠保養廠嘛你們的定義可能就叫做維修啦\n\n23\n00:08:48,872 --> 00:08:58,199\n他可能一個人喝飲料收回來的時候還要檢查嘛那去給你們放在那個庫裡面嘛應該是這樣嘛應該是說比較精細的就像保養啦就保養維修中啦因為剛才有舉例嘛因為這個維修不是壞掉而是說因為東西要有它的準確性因為我看到吳宗憲委員他的表格裡面最旁邊有一個叫庫存\n\n24\n00:09:12,350 --> 00:09:21,217\n還有一個說準備要贏的名詞嘛那是你那個健康中心寫的所以不是壞了啦可能就是在維修在怎樣的時候我覺得這個名詞啊那個我們回去再一個解釋不是說維修維護中還是說怎麼一個保養維護中對啦保養中也可以啦如果說壞了就是壞了這就是大家要定義清楚啦\n\n25\n00:09:37,958 --> 00:10:05,885\n你叫廠商的合約也有這樣定義嗎這個我回去要再了解因為這個比較細節上的問題所以叫廠商的合約你剛招標把它定清楚然後這個外界要資料的時候那些東西到底是什麼車子的淨產保養不是壞了所以剛才有講說為兄弟兄我們用詞用的錯所以引起其他委員不是用錯啦你就是用那個名詞不精準啦改一個大家看得懂那個意思不然看得那個文字會覺得怪怪最後一個\n\n26\n00:10:08,004 --> 00:10:19,632\n因為最近有些城市很多的自殺的自由落體的服屍的到我警察都斑斑的都說沒有偷殺跡象都自殺到這麼多這我看可能跟很多詐騙的受害者有關的這我看你們是不是了解一下\n\n27\n00:10:27,853 --> 00:10:37,318\n查一下說這個我不知這樣每天的新聞說這裡又跳一個那個又跳一個問當地的警方警方說查查就沒事情了那就自殺了啊那就怎樣怎樣每一個個案加起來搞不好是一個系統性的啦搞不好他們就是叫那個詐騙集團拼拼到沒辦法拼到沒辦法一大堆跳牢的嘛一大堆去跳河的嘛很多嘛所以有沒有可能是這樣啦\n\n28\n00:10:53,669 --> 00:11:04,294\n所以這個請法務部這個事情了解一下是這邊我們再來做一個溝期啊沒有那個溝期人家說很奇怪的啊我們這裡怎麼都有人在跳啊跳跳都說沒有都自殺的奇怪那些自殺的啊自殺他們後面的原因是什麼是不是共同的原因啊這個再請法務部大家關心一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n9371\t28922\t好 謝謝主席 我們請部長法務部部長委員早部長 幾個問題請教在你們今天提出來的書面報告裡頭立法計畫裡頭有一個叫做嚴定饋政罪及影響力交易罪\n30563\t59793\t那就是主要是對就是說不具公務員身份但是對公務員有影響力之人你是他的朋友啦他的金主啦他的什麼啦那你們現在想要去修刑法的這一個121條之一不法規正罪123條之一的影響力交易罪嘛是部長我請問一下如果有一個公務員他\n61099\t86255\t預期半年後要退休半年後要退休那就有人去找他啊你半年後就退休啊 退休啊六十幾歲對不對 就年輕 才有財政啊議案就繼續發揮一下啊不然我看 創一個辦公室啊啊 裝潢一下人工退休到有所在的地方去啊 這三百萬拿去裝潢啦這樣 他們朋友啦 他們朋友\n92529\t97032\t這樣講 一個辦公室這樣 半年要退休他接下來半年他還是公務員他還是公務員 如果這樣的狀況算不算這個東西\n108899\t123382\t他這部分影響利益交易罪就是意圖不法的一個利益因為公務機關的一個決定會有不法的利益就是受人之託嘛或者他主導他沒講個案啦沒講個案嘛沒講個案他就講\n124523\t126825\t你就半年要退休 看你這麼有財政對不對不然這樣就退休 社會順心的 創辦公室 總統一個這三百萬我看 大家合幣休 倒三天一個你就給他收下去 收下去 收下去\n143398\t162869\t這公務人員可以收嗎這個委員所提這個案例有可能比較是不法饋贈罪不法饋贈罪不法饋贈喔對 就是因為去搜索這些因為植物有利害關係可能比較傾向於不法饋贈罪沒有 沒利害關係喔 我不跟你說我送的人不跟你說 我要跟你拜託什麼那這樣會不會是公務員年政人員規範的一個問題\n169656\t194469\t因為如果是親友的話當然是那個送的東西沒有限制嘛但是如果說有一些的植物上的一些的關係那個只能五百塊以下那另外沒有植物上的公務禮是三千塊以下如果他親友的話當然是親戚朋友父親要送給子女或者是兄弟之間或寶類那種的好 反過來反過來有一個公務人員要退休了\n199523\t228664\t現在他旁邊的人 他就去找他朋友說欸 以前我們這個也有哪個對你不錯呢你就要退休啊 你也倒三工一下 退休就沒地方可以去我們也找個辦公室給它裝潢一下我看你啦 你很聰明啦不然我們這個喔 你也平常都叫它大的大的 現在就要退休啊這樣啦 你倒三工一下 多少都沒關係啦過去也都給你倒三工對不對你看一下人情義利 倒三工一下\n230014\t258483\t這會做什麼事他講完 他的朋友講完 那些人真的要我站起來還要站去辦公室這個要看有沒有跟職務有關嘛如果職務有關的話 那當然是有犯罪的一個問題好 這個案啦 高雄這個個案所以你這因為你這條文 你會說不具公務員身份但對公務員有影響力之人嘛這高雄這檢察官 法官\n259124\t273463\t在這一條上面的這種裁量判斷喔 空間會很大有影響力之人啊這 高雄看要怎麼用喔 這個可能修法過程大家還要來討論一下喔這個喔 因為這個還在\n277865\t295457\t還在現在的審查中 我想這部分他就會有意見讓這個構成要件更周延 更合理 更有可行性那能夠解決這些的實際上的問題那所以這個還沒有送到立法 這還沒有審訊所以剛才委員提那個問題 我想這個跟職務上有沒有利害關係 所以\n301961\t313852\t是不是這個是真的誠意有沒有利害關係有些還沒發生嘛因為他可能會有契約嘛啊契約口頭契約你啊辦人的人你也搞不清楚啊他們兩個有說什麼我們不知道嘛就是有口頭契約嘛啊第二個就是說他們兩個關係很好要保證你現在叫我們這個常識啊關係很好\n322284\t326586\t我說你們兩個關係很好 想像一下你們兩個關係很好結果告訴我 沒有啦 我們兩個關係不好公務在處理很順暢啦對啊 我意思是說 以後這個年年看啦年年看 萬一他們定期 大家會在吃飯啊有一個吃飯 大家退休有一個聯誼會關係不錯啦 不然可能大家會在吃飯這種年年看在這種有影響力的這個定義上可能後續要更周延 或者我覺得\n352797\t364150\t醫療這個事情 大家亂念有些人去用羅茲罪名也有可能 這個是一個第二個剛才蔣介石委員在講這個科技監控我請問一下 現在去用科技監控的人他對他們家人 要走去看電影 覺得跟你說他這個不用\n373123\t387276\t他最主要是 當然有要告誡像港口海岸這些等等的機場的這些他會有做一個 他如果是住在新庭他還可以跑去台東 花蓮 宜蘭一直都要渡假 那個是沒問題啊沒問題 他走台11線沒有問題\n391857\t415185\t訊號的問題啦 因為自相我們手機啊 手機啊有些不是啦 我就說我要去他有些告警會有 我要去基隆廟口夜市靠近基隆港你知道嗎他有一些的違理喔 就是說不能靠近他有一些警戒 不能立刻他會跟他說明當事人知不知道 他要帶這個之前當事人知不知道 他不可以去基隆廟口吃夜市廟口是知道啊 這個可以的啊\n423912\t441739\t他那個有一個道法因為他有一個跟他交代就是說哪些地方是不能去的海濱亞當然是有一些的怕偷渡所以會有告知他可以去台東成功移港吃海鮮嗎\n443927\t464415\t這個個案的話我沒辦法 我現在的意思是說他現在在移動有些地方你告訴他不能去 對不對那但是他沒有去那些地方他跟某些人接觸 一個人講話講三點鐘 一堆講我們也不知道一堆講我們也不知道 你們也不會去查這個在監控裡頭 都是合法的嘛\n466621\t473984\t只要這個訊號能夠隨從我到 我想這個都不會去打電話去跟他去跟他查說他在高雄過夜三天可以嗎\n480575\t507754\t可以啊 這個可以啊 這個沒有在限制他的行動的就在台灣 不要靠近因為他怕整個就是一個逃亡嘛因為有限制他的一個區域所以這個電子監控就是你們告訴他哪裡不能去因為他有些訊號的問題那他不能去 如果去了你們就會預警了嗎就會預警 他會告警了\n508427\t527708\t第二 剛剛有些委員提到你們的設備 兩講兩講這樣啦 我是覺得你們的名詞定義有問題名詞定義啦 譬如說車開公里後要去保用嘛保用就進維修廠 保養廠嘛你們的定義可能就叫做維修啦\n528872\t538199\t他可能 一個人喝飲料 收回來的時候還要檢查嘛那去給你們放在那個庫裡面嘛 應該是這樣嘛應該是說 比較精細的就像保養啦就保養維修中啦因為剛才有舉例嘛 因為這個維修不是壞掉 而是說因為東西要有它的準確性因為我看到吳宗憲委員 他的表格裡面 最旁邊有一個叫庫存\n552350\t561217\t還有一個說準備要贏的名詞嘛 那是你那個健康中心寫的所以不是壞了啦 可能就是在維修在怎樣的時候我覺得這個名詞啊那個我們回去再一個 解釋不是說維修 維護中還是說怎麼一個保養維護中對啦 保養中也可以啦 如果說壞了就是壞了這就是大家要定義清楚啦\n577958\t605885\t你叫廠商的合約也有這樣定義嗎這個我回去要再了解因為這個比較細節上的問題所以叫廠商的合約你剛招標把它定清楚然後這個外界要資料的時候那些東西到底是什麼車子的淨產保養不是壞了所以剛才有講說為兄弟兄我們用詞用的錯所以引起其他委員不是用錯啦你就是用那個名詞不精準啦改一個大家看得懂那個意思不然看得那個文字會覺得怪怪最後一個\n608004\t619632\t因為最近有些城市很多的自殺的 自由落體的 服屍的到我警察都斑斑的 都說沒有偷殺跡象 都自殺到這麼多這我看可能跟很多詐騙的受害者有關的這我看你們是不是 了解一下\n627853\t637318\t查一下說這個 我不知這樣 每天的新聞說這裡又跳一個 那個又跳一個問當地的警方 警方說查查就沒事情了 那就自殺了啊 那就怎樣怎樣每一個個案加起來 搞不好是一個系統性的啦搞不好他們就是叫那個詐騙集團 拼拼到沒辦法拼到沒辦法一大堆跳牢的嘛 一大堆去跳河的嘛 很多嘛所以有沒有可能是這樣啦\n653669\t664294\t所以這個請法務部這個事情了解一下是 這邊我們再來做一個溝期啊沒有 那個溝期人家說很奇怪的啊我們這裡怎麼都有人在跳啊跳跳都說沒有 都自殺的 奇怪那些自殺的啊自殺他們後面的原因是什麼 是不是共同的原因啊這個再請法務部大家關心一下好不好好 謝謝\n","txt":"好 謝謝主席 我們請部長法務部部長委員早部長 幾個問題請教在你們今天提出來的書面報告裡頭立法計畫裡頭有一個叫做嚴定饋政罪及影響力交易罪\n那就是主要是對就是說不具公務員身份但是對公務員有影響力之人你是他的朋友啦他的金主啦他的什麼啦那你們現在想要去修刑法的這一個121條之一不法規正罪123條之一的影響力交易罪嘛是部長我請問一下如果有一個公務員他\n預期半年後要退休半年後要退休那就有人去找他啊你半年後就退休啊 退休啊六十幾歲對不對 就年輕 才有財政啊議案就繼續發揮一下啊不然我看 創一個辦公室啊啊 裝潢一下人工退休到有所在的地方去啊 這三百萬拿去裝潢啦這樣 他們朋友啦 他們朋友\n這樣講 一個辦公室這樣 半年要退休他接下來半年他還是公務員他還是公務員 如果這樣的狀況算不算這個東西\n他這部分影響利益交易罪就是意圖不法的一個利益因為公務機關的一個決定會有不法的利益就是受人之託嘛或者他主導他沒講個案啦沒講個案嘛沒講個案他就講\n你就半年要退休 看你這麼有財政對不對不然這樣就退休 社會順心的 創辦公室 總統一個這三百萬我看 大家合幣休 倒三天一個你就給他收下去 收下去 收下去\n這公務人員可以收嗎這個委員所提這個案例有可能比較是不法饋贈罪不法饋贈罪不法饋贈喔對 就是因為去搜索這些因為植物有利害關係可能比較傾向於不法饋贈罪沒有 沒利害關係喔 我不跟你說我送的人不跟你說 我要跟你拜託什麼那這樣會不會是公務員年政人員規範的一個問題\n因為如果是親友的話當然是那個送的東西沒有限制嘛但是如果說有一些的植物上的一些的關係那個只能五百塊以下那另外沒有植物上的公務禮是三千塊以下如果他親友的話當然是親戚朋友父親要送給子女或者是兄弟之間或寶類那種的好 反過來反過來有一個公務人員要退休了\n現在他旁邊的人 他就去找他朋友說欸 以前我們這個也有哪個對你不錯呢你就要退休啊 你也倒三工一下 退休就沒地方可以去我們也找個辦公室給它裝潢一下我看你啦 你很聰明啦不然我們這個喔 你也平常都叫它大的大的 現在就要退休啊這樣啦 你倒三工一下 多少都沒關係啦過去也都給你倒三工對不對你看一下人情義利 倒三工一下\n這會做什麼事他講完 他的朋友講完 那些人真的要我站起來還要站去辦公室這個要看有沒有跟職務有關嘛如果職務有關的話 那當然是有犯罪的一個問題好 這個案啦 高雄這個個案所以你這因為你這條文 你會說不具公務員身份但對公務員有影響力之人嘛這高雄這檢察官 法官\n在這一條上面的這種裁量判斷喔 空間會很大有影響力之人啊這 高雄看要怎麼用喔 這個可能修法過程大家還要來討論一下喔這個喔 因為這個還在\n還在現在的審查中 我想這部分他就會有意見讓這個構成要件更周延 更合理 更有可行性那能夠解決這些的實際上的問題那所以這個還沒有送到立法 這還沒有審訊所以剛才委員提那個問題 我想這個跟職務上有沒有利害關係 所以\n是不是這個是真的誠意有沒有利害關係有些還沒發生嘛因為他可能會有契約嘛啊契約口頭契約你啊辦人的人你也搞不清楚啊他們兩個有說什麼我們不知道嘛就是有口頭契約嘛啊第二個就是說他們兩個關係很好要保證你現在叫我們這個常識啊關係很好\n我說你們兩個關係很好 想像一下你們兩個關係很好結果告訴我 沒有啦 我們兩個關係不好公務在處理很順暢啦對啊 我意思是說 以後這個年年看啦年年看 萬一他們定期 大家會在吃飯啊有一個吃飯 大家退休有一個聯誼會關係不錯啦 不然可能大家會在吃飯這種年年看在這種有影響力的這個定義上可能後續要更周延 或者我覺得\n醫療這個事情 大家亂念有些人去用羅茲罪名也有可能 這個是一個第二個剛才蔣介石委員在講這個科技監控我請問一下 現在去用科技監控的人他對他們家人 要走去看電影 覺得跟你說他這個不用\n他最主要是 當然有要告誡像港口海岸這些等等的機場的這些他會有做一個 他如果是住在新庭他還可以跑去台東 花蓮 宜蘭一直都要渡假 那個是沒問題啊沒問題 他走台11線沒有問題\n訊號的問題啦 因為自相我們手機啊 手機啊有些不是啦 我就說我要去他有些告警會有 我要去基隆廟口夜市靠近基隆港你知道嗎他有一些的違理喔 就是說不能靠近他有一些警戒 不能立刻他會跟他說明當事人知不知道 他要帶這個之前當事人知不知道 他不可以去基隆廟口吃夜市廟口是知道啊 這個可以的啊\n他那個有一個道法因為他有一個跟他交代就是說哪些地方是不能去的海濱亞當然是有一些的怕偷渡所以會有告知他可以去台東成功移港吃海鮮嗎\n這個個案的話我沒辦法 我現在的意思是說他現在在移動有些地方你告訴他不能去 對不對那但是他沒有去那些地方他跟某些人接觸 一個人講話講三點鐘 一堆講我們也不知道一堆講我們也不知道 你們也不會去查這個在監控裡頭 都是合法的嘛\n只要這個訊號能夠隨從我到 我想這個都不會去打電話去跟他去跟他查說他在高雄過夜三天可以嗎\n可以啊 這個可以啊 這個沒有在限制他的行動的就在台灣 不要靠近因為他怕整個就是一個逃亡嘛因為有限制他的一個區域所以這個電子監控就是你們告訴他哪裡不能去因為他有些訊號的問題那他不能去 如果去了你們就會預警了嗎就會預警 他會告警了\n第二 剛剛有些委員提到你們的設備 兩講兩講這樣啦 我是覺得你們的名詞定義有問題名詞定義啦 譬如說車開公里後要去保用嘛保用就進維修廠 保養廠嘛你們的定義可能就叫做維修啦\n他可能 一個人喝飲料 收回來的時候還要檢查嘛那去給你們放在那個庫裡面嘛 應該是這樣嘛應該是說 比較精細的就像保養啦就保養維修中啦因為剛才有舉例嘛 因為這個維修不是壞掉 而是說因為東西要有它的準確性因為我看到吳宗憲委員 他的表格裡面 最旁邊有一個叫庫存\n還有一個說準備要贏的名詞嘛 那是你那個健康中心寫的所以不是壞了啦 可能就是在維修在怎樣的時候我覺得這個名詞啊那個我們回去再一個 解釋不是說維修 維護中還是說怎麼一個保養維護中對啦 保養中也可以啦 如果說壞了就是壞了這就是大家要定義清楚啦\n你叫廠商的合約也有這樣定義嗎這個我回去要再了解因為這個比較細節上的問題所以叫廠商的合約你剛招標把它定清楚然後這個外界要資料的時候那些東西到底是什麼車子的淨產保養不是壞了所以剛才有講說為兄弟兄我們用詞用的錯所以引起其他委員不是用錯啦你就是用那個名詞不精準啦改一個大家看得懂那個意思不然看得那個文字會覺得怪怪最後一個\n因為最近有些城市很多的自殺的 自由落體的 服屍的到我警察都斑斑的 都說沒有偷殺跡象 都自殺到這麼多這我看可能跟很多詐騙的受害者有關的這我看你們是不是 了解一下\n查一下說這個 我不知這樣 每天的新聞說這裡又跳一個 那個又跳一個問當地的警方 警方說查查就沒事情了 那就自殺了啊 那就怎樣怎樣每一個個案加起來 搞不好是一個系統性的啦搞不好他們就是叫那個詐騙集團 拼拼到沒辦法拼到沒辦法一大堆跳牢的嘛 一大堆去跳河的嘛 很多嘛所以有沒有可能是這樣啦\n所以這個請法務部這個事情了解一下是 這邊我們再來做一個溝期啊沒有 那個溝期人家說很奇怪的啊我們這裡怎麼都有人在跳啊跳跳都說沒有 都自殺的 奇怪那些自殺的啊自殺他們後面的原因是什麼 是不是共同的原因啊這個再請法務部大家關心一下好不好好 謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:09.371 --> 00:28.922\n好謝謝主席我們請部長法務部部長委員早部長幾個問題請教在你們今天提出來的書面報告裡頭立法計畫裡頭有一個叫做嚴定饋政罪及影響力交易罪\n\n00:30.563 --> 00:59.793\n那就是主要是對就是說不具公務員身份但是對公務員有影響力之人你是他的朋友啦他的金主啦他的什麼啦那你們現在想要去修刑法的這一個121條之一不法規正罪123條之一的影響力交易罪嘛是部長我請問一下如果有一個公務員他\n\n01:01.099 --> 01:26.255\n預期半年後要退休半年後要退休那就有人去找他啊你半年後就退休啊退休啊六十幾歲對不對就年輕才有財政啊議案就繼續發揮一下啊不然我看創一個辦公室啊啊裝潢一下人工退休到有所在的地方去啊這三百萬拿去裝潢啦這樣他們朋友啦他們朋友\n\n01:32.529 --> 01:37.032\n這樣講一個辦公室這樣半年要退休他接下來半年他還是公務員他還是公務員如果這樣的狀況算不算這個東西\n\n01:48.899 --> 02:03.382\n他這部分影響利益交易罪就是意圖不法的一個利益因為公務機關的一個決定會有不法的利益就是受人之託嘛或者他主導他沒講個案啦沒講個案嘛沒講個案他就講\n\n02:04.523 --> 02:06.825\n你就半年要退休看你這麼有財政對不對不然這樣就退休社會順心的創辦公室總統一個這三百萬我看大家合幣休倒三天一個你就給他收下去收下去收下去\n\n02:23.398 --> 02:42.869\n這公務人員可以收嗎這個委員所提這個案例有可能比較是不法饋贈罪不法饋贈罪不法饋贈喔對就是因為去搜索這些因為植物有利害關係可能比較傾向於不法饋贈罪沒有沒利害關係喔我不跟你說我送的人不跟你說我要跟你拜託什麼那這樣會不會是公務員年政人員規範的一個問題\n\n02:49.656 --> 03:14.469\n因為如果是親友的話當然是那個送的東西沒有限制嘛但是如果說有一些的植物上的一些的關係那個只能五百塊以下那另外沒有植物上的公務禮是三千塊以下如果他親友的話當然是親戚朋友父親要送給子女或者是兄弟之間或寶類那種的好反過來反過來有一個公務人員要退休了\n\n03:19.523 --> 03:48.664\n現在他旁邊的人他就去找他朋友說欸以前我們這個也有哪個對你不錯呢你就要退休啊你也倒三工一下退休就沒地方可以去我們也找個辦公室給它裝潢一下我看你啦你很聰明啦不然我們這個喔你也平常都叫它大的大的現在就要退休啊這樣啦你倒三工一下多少都沒關係啦過去也都給你倒三工對不對你看一下人情義利倒三工一下\n\n03:50.014 --> 04:18.483\n這會做什麼事他講完他的朋友講完那些人真的要我站起來還要站去辦公室這個要看有沒有跟職務有關嘛如果職務有關的話那當然是有犯罪的一個問題好這個案啦高雄這個個案所以你這因為你這條文你會說不具公務員身份但對公務員有影響力之人嘛這高雄這檢察官法官\n\n04:19.124 --> 04:33.463\n在這一條上面的這種裁量判斷喔空間會很大有影響力之人啊這高雄看要怎麼用喔這個可能修法過程大家還要來討論一下喔這個喔因為這個還在\n\n04:37.865 --> 04:55.457\n還在現在的審查中我想這部分他就會有意見讓這個構成要件更周延更合理更有可行性那能夠解決這些的實際上的問題那所以這個還沒有送到立法這還沒有審訊所以剛才委員提那個問題我想這個跟職務上有沒有利害關係所以\n\n05:01.961 --> 05:13.852\n是不是這個是真的誠意有沒有利害關係有些還沒發生嘛因為他可能會有契約嘛啊契約口頭契約你啊辦人的人你也搞不清楚啊他們兩個有說什麼我們不知道嘛就是有口頭契約嘛啊第二個就是說他們兩個關係很好要保證你現在叫我們這個常識啊關係很好\n\n05:22.284 --> 05:26.586\n我說你們兩個關係很好想像一下你們兩個關係很好結果告訴我沒有啦我們兩個關係不好公務在處理很順暢啦對啊我意思是說以後這個年年看啦年年看萬一他們定期大家會在吃飯啊有一個吃飯大家退休有一個聯誼會關係不錯啦不然可能大家會在吃飯這種年年看在這種有影響力的這個定義上可能後續要更周延或者我覺得\n\n05:52.797 --> 06:04.150\n醫療這個事情大家亂念有些人去用羅茲罪名也有可能這個是一個第二個剛才蔣介石委員在講這個科技監控我請問一下現在去用科技監控的人他對他們家人要走去看電影覺得跟你說他這個不用\n\n06:13.123 --> 06:27.276\n他最主要是當然有要告誡像港口海岸這些等等的機場的這些他會有做一個他如果是住在新庭他還可以跑去台東花蓮宜蘭一直都要渡假那個是沒問題啊沒問題他走台11線沒有問題\n\n06:31.857 --> 06:55.185\n訊號的問題啦因為自相我們手機啊手機啊有些不是啦我就說我要去他有些告警會有我要去基隆廟口夜市靠近基隆港你知道嗎他有一些的違理喔就是說不能靠近他有一些警戒不能立刻他會跟他說明當事人知不知道他要帶這個之前當事人知不知道他不可以去基隆廟口吃夜市廟口是知道啊這個可以的啊\n\n07:03.912 --> 07:21.739\n他那個有一個道法因為他有一個跟他交代就是說哪些地方是不能去的海濱亞當然是有一些的怕偷渡所以會有告知他可以去台東成功移港吃海鮮嗎\n\n07:23.927 --> 07:44.415\n這個個案的話我沒辦法我現在的意思是說他現在在移動有些地方你告訴他不能去對不對那但是他沒有去那些地方他跟某些人接觸一個人講話講三點鐘一堆講我們也不知道一堆講我們也不知道你們也不會去查這個在監控裡頭都是合法的嘛\n\n07:46.621 --> 07:53.984\n只要這個訊號能夠隨從我到我想這個都不會去打電話去跟他去跟他查說他在高雄過夜三天可以嗎\n\n08:00.575 --> 08:27.754\n可以啊這個可以啊這個沒有在限制他的行動的就在台灣不要靠近因為他怕整個就是一個逃亡嘛因為有限制他的一個區域所以這個電子監控就是你們告訴他哪裡不能去因為他有些訊號的問題那他不能去如果去了你們就會預警了嗎就會預警他會告警了\n\n08:28.427 --> 08:47.708\n第二剛剛有些委員提到你們的設備兩講兩講這樣啦我是覺得你們的名詞定義有問題名詞定義啦譬如說車開公里後要去保用嘛保用就進維修廠保養廠嘛你們的定義可能就叫做維修啦\n\n08:48.872 --> 08:58.199\n他可能一個人喝飲料收回來的時候還要檢查嘛那去給你們放在那個庫裡面嘛應該是這樣嘛應該是說比較精細的就像保養啦就保養維修中啦因為剛才有舉例嘛因為這個維修不是壞掉而是說因為東西要有它的準確性因為我看到吳宗憲委員他的表格裡面最旁邊有一個叫庫存\n\n09:12.350 --> 09:21.217\n還有一個說準備要贏的名詞嘛那是你那個健康中心寫的所以不是壞了啦可能就是在維修在怎樣的時候我覺得這個名詞啊那個我們回去再一個解釋不是說維修維護中還是說怎麼一個保養維護中對啦保養中也可以啦如果說壞了就是壞了這就是大家要定義清楚啦\n\n09:37.958 --> 10:05.885\n你叫廠商的合約也有這樣定義嗎這個我回去要再了解因為這個比較細節上的問題所以叫廠商的合約你剛招標把它定清楚然後這個外界要資料的時候那些東西到底是什麼車子的淨產保養不是壞了所以剛才有講說為兄弟兄我們用詞用的錯所以引起其他委員不是用錯啦你就是用那個名詞不精準啦改一個大家看得懂那個意思不然看得那個文字會覺得怪怪最後一個\n\n10:08.004 --> 10:19.632\n因為最近有些城市很多的自殺的自由落體的服屍的到我警察都斑斑的都說沒有偷殺跡象都自殺到這麼多這我看可能跟很多詐騙的受害者有關的這我看你們是不是了解一下\n\n10:27.853 --> 10:37.318\n查一下說這個我不知這樣每天的新聞說這裡又跳一個那個又跳一個問當地的警方警方說查查就沒事情了那就自殺了啊那就怎樣怎樣每一個個案加起來搞不好是一個系統性的啦搞不好他們就是叫那個詐騙集團拼拼到沒辦法拼到沒辦法一大堆跳牢的嘛一大堆去跳河的嘛很多嘛所以有沒有可能是這樣啦\n\n10:53.669 --> 11:04.294\n所以這個請法務部這個事情了解一下是這邊我們再來做一個溝期啊沒有那個溝期人家說很奇怪的啊我們這裡怎麼都有人在跳啊跳跳都說沒有都自殺的奇怪那些自殺的啊自殺他們後面的原因是什麼是不是共同的原因啊這個再請法務部大家關心一下好不好好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":9.371,"end":28.922,"text":"好 謝謝主席 我們請部長法務部部長委員早部長 幾個問題請教在你們今天提出來的書面報告裡頭立法計畫裡頭有一個叫做嚴定饋政罪及影響力交易罪"},{"start":30.563,"end":59.793,"text":"那就是主要是對就是說不具公務員身份但是對公務員有影響力之人你是他的朋友啦他的金主啦他的什麼啦那你們現在想要去修刑法的這一個121條之一不法規正罪123條之一的影響力交易罪嘛是部長我請問一下如果有一個公務員他"},{"start":61.099,"end":86.255,"text":"預期半年後要退休半年後要退休那就有人去找他啊你半年後就退休啊 退休啊六十幾歲對不對 就年輕 才有財政啊議案就繼續發揮一下啊不然我看 創一個辦公室啊啊 裝潢一下人工退休到有所在的地方去啊 這三百萬拿去裝潢啦這樣 他們朋友啦 他們朋友"},{"start":92.529,"end":97.032,"text":"這樣講 一個辦公室這樣 半年要退休他接下來半年他還是公務員他還是公務員 如果這樣的狀況算不算這個東西"},{"start":108.899,"end":123.382,"text":"他這部分影響利益交易罪就是意圖不法的一個利益因為公務機關的一個決定會有不法的利益就是受人之託嘛或者他主導他沒講個案啦沒講個案嘛沒講個案他就講"},{"start":124.523,"end":126.825,"text":"你就半年要退休 看你這麼有財政對不對不然這樣就退休 社會順心的 創辦公室 總統一個這三百萬我看 大家合幣休 倒三天一個你就給他收下去 收下去 收下去"},{"start":143.398,"end":162.869,"text":"這公務人員可以收嗎這個委員所提這個案例有可能比較是不法饋贈罪不法饋贈罪不法饋贈喔對 就是因為去搜索這些因為植物有利害關係可能比較傾向於不法饋贈罪沒有 沒利害關係喔 我不跟你說我送的人不跟你說 我要跟你拜託什麼那這樣會不會是公務員年政人員規範的一個問題"},{"start":169.656,"end":194.469,"text":"因為如果是親友的話當然是那個送的東西沒有限制嘛但是如果說有一些的植物上的一些的關係那個只能五百塊以下那另外沒有植物上的公務禮是三千塊以下如果他親友的話當然是親戚朋友父親要送給子女或者是兄弟之間或寶類那種的好 反過來反過來有一個公務人員要退休了"},{"start":199.523,"end":228.664,"text":"現在他旁邊的人 他就去找他朋友說欸 以前我們這個也有哪個對你不錯呢你就要退休啊 你也倒三工一下 退休就沒地方可以去我們也找個辦公室給它裝潢一下我看你啦 你很聰明啦不然我們這個喔 你也平常都叫它大的大的 現在就要退休啊這樣啦 你倒三工一下 多少都沒關係啦過去也都給你倒三工對不對你看一下人情義利 倒三工一下"},{"start":230.014,"end":258.483,"text":"這會做什麼事他講完 他的朋友講完 那些人真的要我站起來還要站去辦公室這個要看有沒有跟職務有關嘛如果職務有關的話 那當然是有犯罪的一個問題好 這個案啦 高雄這個個案所以你這因為你這條文 你會說不具公務員身份但對公務員有影響力之人嘛這高雄這檢察官 法官"},{"start":259.124,"end":273.463,"text":"在這一條上面的這種裁量判斷喔 空間會很大有影響力之人啊這 高雄看要怎麼用喔 這個可能修法過程大家還要來討論一下喔這個喔 因為這個還在"},{"start":277.865,"end":295.457,"text":"還在現在的審查中 我想這部分他就會有意見讓這個構成要件更周延 更合理 更有可行性那能夠解決這些的實際上的問題那所以這個還沒有送到立法 這還沒有審訊所以剛才委員提那個問題 我想這個跟職務上有沒有利害關係 所以"},{"start":301.961,"end":313.852,"text":"是不是這個是真的誠意有沒有利害關係有些還沒發生嘛因為他可能會有契約嘛啊契約口頭契約你啊辦人的人你也搞不清楚啊他們兩個有說什麼我們不知道嘛就是有口頭契約嘛啊第二個就是說他們兩個關係很好要保證你現在叫我們這個常識啊關係很好"},{"start":322.284,"end":326.586,"text":"我說你們兩個關係很好 想像一下你們兩個關係很好結果告訴我 沒有啦 我們兩個關係不好公務在處理很順暢啦對啊 我意思是說 以後這個年年看啦年年看 萬一他們定期 大家會在吃飯啊有一個吃飯 大家退休有一個聯誼會關係不錯啦 不然可能大家會在吃飯這種年年看在這種有影響力的這個定義上可能後續要更周延 或者我覺得"},{"start":352.797,"end":364.15,"text":"醫療這個事情 大家亂念有些人去用羅茲罪名也有可能 這個是一個第二個剛才蔣介石委員在講這個科技監控我請問一下 現在去用科技監控的人他對他們家人 要走去看電影 覺得跟你說他這個不用"},{"start":373.123,"end":387.276,"text":"他最主要是 當然有要告誡像港口海岸這些等等的機場的這些他會有做一個 他如果是住在新庭他還可以跑去台東 花蓮 宜蘭一直都要渡假 那個是沒問題啊沒問題 他走台11線沒有問題"},{"start":391.857,"end":415.185,"text":"訊號的問題啦 因為自相我們手機啊 手機啊有些不是啦 我就說我要去他有些告警會有 我要去基隆廟口夜市靠近基隆港你知道嗎他有一些的違理喔 就是說不能靠近他有一些警戒 不能立刻他會跟他說明當事人知不知道 他要帶這個之前當事人知不知道 他不可以去基隆廟口吃夜市廟口是知道啊 這個可以的啊"},{"start":423.912,"end":441.739,"text":"他那個有一個道法因為他有一個跟他交代就是說哪些地方是不能去的海濱亞當然是有一些的怕偷渡所以會有告知他可以去台東成功移港吃海鮮嗎"},{"start":443.927,"end":464.415,"text":"這個個案的話我沒辦法 我現在的意思是說他現在在移動有些地方你告訴他不能去 對不對那但是他沒有去那些地方他跟某些人接觸 一個人講話講三點鐘 一堆講我們也不知道一堆講我們也不知道 你們也不會去查這個在監控裡頭 都是合法的嘛"},{"start":466.621,"end":473.984,"text":"只要這個訊號能夠隨從我到 我想這個都不會去打電話去跟他去跟他查說他在高雄過夜三天可以嗎"},{"start":480.575,"end":507.754,"text":"可以啊 這個可以啊 這個沒有在限制他的行動的就在台灣 不要靠近因為他怕整個就是一個逃亡嘛因為有限制他的一個區域所以這個電子監控就是你們告訴他哪裡不能去因為他有些訊號的問題那他不能去 如果去了你們就會預警了嗎就會預警 他會告警了"},{"start":508.427,"end":527.708,"text":"第二 剛剛有些委員提到你們的設備 兩講兩講這樣啦 我是覺得你們的名詞定義有問題名詞定義啦 譬如說車開公里後要去保用嘛保用就進維修廠 保養廠嘛你們的定義可能就叫做維修啦"},{"start":528.872,"end":538.199,"text":"他可能 一個人喝飲料 收回來的時候還要檢查嘛那去給你們放在那個庫裡面嘛 應該是這樣嘛應該是說 比較精細的就像保養啦就保養維修中啦因為剛才有舉例嘛 因為這個維修不是壞掉 而是說因為東西要有它的準確性因為我看到吳宗憲委員 他的表格裡面 最旁邊有一個叫庫存"},{"start":552.35,"end":561.217,"text":"還有一個說準備要贏的名詞嘛 那是你那個健康中心寫的所以不是壞了啦 可能就是在維修在怎樣的時候我覺得這個名詞啊那個我們回去再一個 解釋不是說維修 維護中還是說怎麼一個保養維護中對啦 保養中也可以啦 如果說壞了就是壞了這就是大家要定義清楚啦"},{"start":577.958,"end":605.885,"text":"你叫廠商的合約也有這樣定義嗎這個我回去要再了解因為這個比較細節上的問題所以叫廠商的合約你剛招標把它定清楚然後這個外界要資料的時候那些東西到底是什麼車子的淨產保養不是壞了所以剛才有講說為兄弟兄我們用詞用的錯所以引起其他委員不是用錯啦你就是用那個名詞不精準啦改一個大家看得懂那個意思不然看得那個文字會覺得怪怪最後一個"},{"start":608.004,"end":619.632,"text":"因為最近有些城市很多的自殺的 自由落體的 服屍的到我警察都斑斑的 都說沒有偷殺跡象 都自殺到這麼多這我看可能跟很多詐騙的受害者有關的這我看你們是不是 了解一下"},{"start":627.853,"end":637.318,"text":"查一下說這個 我不知這樣 每天的新聞說這裡又跳一個 那個又跳一個問當地的警方 警方說查查就沒事情了 那就自殺了啊 那就怎樣怎樣每一個個案加起來 搞不好是一個系統性的啦搞不好他們就是叫那個詐騙集團 拼拼到沒辦法拼到沒辦法一大堆跳牢的嘛 一大堆去跳河的嘛 很多嘛所以有沒有可能是這樣啦"},{"start":653.669,"end":664.294,"text":"所以這個請法務部這個事情了解一下是 這邊我們再來做一個溝期啊沒有 那個溝期人家說很奇怪的啊我們這裡怎麼都有人在跳啊跳跳都說沒有 都自殺的 奇怪那些自殺的啊自殺他們後面的原因是什麼 是不是共同的原因啊這個再請法務部大家關心一下好不好好 謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":660,"blocks":[["王委員義川：（10時4分）謝謝主席，我們請法務部部長。"],["主席：請部長。"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員早。"],["王委員義川：部長，幾個問題請教。在你們今天提出來的書面報告裡頭，立法計畫中有一個叫做研定饋贈罪及影響力交易罪，主要是針對不具公務員身分，但是對公務員有影響力之人，可能是他的朋友、他的金主或他的什麼人啦，你們現在想要去修刑法第一百二十一條之一不法饋贈罪，以及第一百二十三條之一的影響力交易罪嘛。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["王委員義川：部長，我請問一下，如果有一個公務員，他預期半年後要退休，因為他半年後要退休，就有人去找他，說「你半年後就退休了，退休時才六十幾歲，對不對？這麼年輕，這麼有才情，以後應該要繼續發揮一下，我看我就設一間辦公室，裝潢一下，改天等你退休後才有地方可以去，這300萬你就拿去裝潢啦」，他們是屬於朋友關係，他的朋友這樣告訴他，預計要設一間辦公室，因為他的朋友知道他半年後要退休了，但接下來這半年他還是公務員喔、他還是公務員，如果是這樣的狀況算不算這個東西？"],["鄭部長銘謙：關於這部分，影響力交易罪就是意圖不法的利益，因為公務機關的一個決定，會有不法的利益，就是受人之托嘛，或者他主觀……"],["王委員義川：但那個人沒有跟他提到個案啦。"],["鄭部長銘謙：如果沒有提到個案……"],["王委員義川：對，沒提到個案，他只是說「你半年後就要退休了，看你這麼有才情，不應該這樣就退休，否則會是社會的損失，乾脆設一間辦公室，裝潢一下，這300萬，因為大家都是好朋友，幫忙一下，你就收下吧」，這筆錢公務人員可以收嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：委員所提的這個案例，有可能比較是不法饋贈罪。"],["王委員義川：不法饋贈？"],["鄭部長銘謙：對，因為去收受這些，而職務有利害關係，可能比較傾向於不法饋贈罪。"],["王委員義川：沒有，沒有利害關係喔，送錢的人又沒有跟他說我要跟你拜託什麼事情啊。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這樣會不會是公務員廉政倫理規範的一個問題，因為如果是親友的話，當然送的東西是沒有限制嘛，但是如果有一些職務上的關係，那個金額只能在500元以下。另外，如果是沒有職務關係的禮物，則是3,000元以下。如果他的親友的話，當然親戚朋友、父親要送給子女，或者是兄弟之間，或者包禮之類的行為，當然就沒有……"],["王委員義川：如果是反過來，有一個公務人員要退休了，現在他身邊的人就去找他的朋友，說「以前我們這一位也真的對你們滿不錯的，現在他快要退休了，你們也幫忙一下，否則他退休就沒地方可以去了，我們也給他弄一間辦公室，幫他裝潢一下，我看這樣啦，你儘量啦，畢竟我們這一位，你平常也都稱呼他大哥，現在他就要退休了，這樣啦，你幫忙一下，多少都沒關係啦，過去也都有幫忙過你們，對不對？看在人情義理的分上，就幫忙一下」，這樣做會觸犯什麼罪？他的朋友講完這番話之後，那個人真的有拿錢來喔，還拿去辦公室。"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個要看有沒有跟職務有關嘛，如果與職務有關的話，那當然是有犯罪的一個問題。"],["王委員義川：好，這是個案啦，到時候如果有這個個案，因為你們的條文是寫「不具公務員身分，但對公務員有影響力之人」嘛，到時候檢察官、法官在這一條上面的裁量判斷空間會很大，有影響力之人，到時候看要怎麼適用，這個可能在修法過程大家還要再來討論一下。"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為這個還在行政院審查中，我想這部分他們可能就會有意見，讓這個構成要件更周延、更合理、更有可行性，能夠解決這些實際上的問題，這個還沒有送到立法院，因為它還沒有審竣。"],["王委員義川：不然這個部分改天可能會很「連連看」喔。"],["鄭部長銘謙：所以剛才委員提的那個問題，我想這要看這個部分跟職務上有沒有利害關係，所以這個是不是真的成立……"],["王委員義川：關於有沒有利害關係，畢竟有些還沒發生嘛，因為他可能會有期約嘛，如果有期約、口頭期約，辦案的人可能也搞不清楚啊，他們兩個人說了什麼話，我們都不知道嘛，就是有口頭期約嘛。第二個，他們兩個人的關係很好，例如部長你跟常次的關係很好，我說你們兩個人關係很好，想像一下你們兩個人關係很好，結果後來你們卻說「沒有啦，我們兩個人的關係並不好，不要在那邊亂說」！"],["鄭部長銘謙：我們是公務在處理上很順暢。"],["王委員義川：對啦，我意思是說，以後這個會被人拿來「連連看」啦，例如這些人定期、每個月都有在一起吃飯，有一個吃飯的聚會，大家退休後都有一個聯誼會，關係一定不錯，不然怎麼可能每個月都一起吃飯，這種「連連看」在這種有影響力的定義上，可能後續要更周延，否則我覺得以後這種事情大家會亂連連看，有些人會被羅織罪名，這都有可能，這個是第一個。","第二個，剛才很多委員在討論科技監控，我請問一下，現在遭科技監控的人，如果他從他家要走去看電影，要不要跟你們說？"],["鄭部長銘謙：他這個不用，最主要是會告誡他像港口、海岸、機場等等的這些地點，他會做一個……"],["王委員義川：如果他是住在新竹，他可以跑去臺東、花蓮、宜蘭，這樣到處去渡假嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個是沒問題的，因為這個是……"],["王委員義川：沒問題？他走臺11線沒有問題？"],["鄭部長銘謙：訊號的問題啦，因為這就像我們在使用手機，有些……"],["王委員義川：不是啦，我就說我要去……"],["鄭部長銘謙：他有些告警會有標示……"],["王委員義川：如果我去基隆廟口夜市，但它靠近基隆港，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：他有一些圍籬就是不能靠近，有一些警戒的，就是不能躲……"],["王委員義川：當事人知道嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：會跟他說明。"],["王委員義川：當事人知不知道？要戴這個之前，當事人知不知道他不可以去基隆廟口吃夜市？"],["鄭部長銘謙：廟口是……知道啊！這個可以的啊。"],["王委員義川：不是，他走10分鐘就走到基隆港了耶！"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個系統有一個……因為有人會跟他交代，哪些地方是不能去的。"],["王委員義川：我知道啦！譬如說他現在……"],["鄭部長銘謙：基隆位於海邊，海邊當然有一些是怕偷渡，所以會有告警的現象……"],["王委員義川：他可以去臺東成功漁港吃海產嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：個案的話，我沒辦法去知道這麼細的……"],["王委員義川：好，我現在的意思是，他現在在移動，有些地方你告訴他不能去，對不對？但是他沒有去那些地方，他跟某些人接觸，一次講話講三個小時，在哪裡講我們也不知道，你也不會去查，這個在監控裡頭都是合法的嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：只要這個訊號能夠追蹤得到，我想都不會去打電話去查他到底在……"],["王委員義川：好，那他登記的居所在新竹，他在高雄過夜三天，可以嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：可以啊，這個可以啊，這個沒有在限制他的行動的自由……"],["王委員義川：就在臺灣，不要靠近……"],["鄭部長銘謙：他沒有，因為怕他整個就是……這個就是一個逃亡嘛，因為有限制他的區域嘛。"],["王委員義川：OK，好，所以這個電子監控就是你們告訴他哪裡不能去……"],["鄭部長銘謙：因為他有些訊號的問題，訊號的問題都一定會跟他打電話查證……"],["王委員義川：好。那他不能去，如果去了，你們就會預警了嘛？"],["鄭部長銘謙：就會預警，他會告警了。"],["王委員義川：好。第二，剛剛有些委員提到，你們的設備看起來「兩光、兩光」啦，我是覺得可能你們的名詞定義有問題，名詞定義啦。譬如說，車開幾公里之後要去保養嘛，保養就是進維修廠、保養廠嘛，你們的定義就可能叫做維修。可能一個人譬如A用完，收回來的時候總是還要檢查嘛，那個會被你們放在那個pool裡面嘛，應該是這樣。"],["鄭部長銘謙：應該說起來比較正確的說法叫保養啦……"],["王委員義川：對啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：叫做保養維修中啦。"],["王委員義川：嘿啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：就像我剛才有舉例，這個維修不是壞掉，而是因為東西要有其準確性……"],["王委員義川：因為我剛剛看吳宗憲委員的表格裡面，最旁邊有一個叫做「庫存」，有一個好像在說準備要用了，有一個名詞嘛，那是你們那個監控中心寫的，所以不是壞掉啦！它可能就是在維修、在怎樣的時候，我覺得那個名詞……"],["鄭部長銘謙：那個我們回去會再檢視，不是「維修」而是「維護中」還是「保養維護中」……"],["王委員義川：嘿啦，不然「保養中」也可以啦……"],["鄭部長銘謙：「保養中」或「維護中」。"],["王委員義川：如果說壞掉了就是壞掉了，就是大家要把它定義清楚啦。你們跟廠商的合約也有這樣定義嗎？"],["鄭部長銘謙：這個我回去要再了解，因為這個比較細節上的問題，我目前……"],["王委員義川：好，所以改天招標時在跟廠商的合約內要定清楚，然後外界要資料的時候，那個東西到底是怎樣，車子進廠保養不是壞掉了，所以……"],["鄭部長銘謙：應該剛才有講說維修，其實我們那個用詞用錯了，所以引起其他委員的……"],["王委員義川：不是用錯啦！你們就是用那個名詞啦！"],["鄭部長銘謙：不精準啦。"],["王委員義川：改一下大家比較看得懂，了解它的意思啦，不然看到那個文字會覺得怪怪的。"],["鄭部長銘謙：是。"],["王委員義川：最後一個，最近有些城市有很多自殺的、自由落體的、浮屍的案件，到最後警察辦一辦都說沒有他殺的跡象，都是自殺的比較多，這個我看可能跟很多詐騙受害者有關係。我看你們是不是了解一下、查一下，不然這樣每天的耶，每天的新聞說這裡又跳一個，那裡又跳一個，問當地警方，警方查一查就說沒事啊，他就是自殺的啊，他就怎樣、怎樣、怎樣的，欸，每一個個案加起來，搞不好是一個系統性的，搞不好他們就是被詐騙集團逼，逼到沒辦法，逼到沒辦法一大堆跳樓的嘛、一大堆去跳河的嘛，很多嘛，所以有沒有可能是這樣？請法務部了解一下這個事情，這個進展……"],["鄭部長銘謙：是，我們這邊再來做一個勾稽。"],["王委員義川：不然那個都市的人會覺得很奇怪耶，怎麼我們這裡都有人在跳（樓），跳一跳都說是自殺的，奇怪，怎麼那麼多自殺的？他們自殺後面的原因是什麼，是不是有共同的原因？這部分再請法務部多關心一下，好不好？"],["鄭部長銘謙：好。"],["王委員義川：謝謝。"],["主席：謝謝王委員。接下來請沈發惠委員發言。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":102,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-36-2","speakers":["翁曉玲","黃國昌","陳培瑜","吳宗憲","王義川","沈發惠","吳思瑤","王鴻薇","羅智強","傅崐萁","賴士葆","林楚茵","莊瑞雄","賴惠員","林倩綺","陳冠廷"],"page_start":1,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1148102","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1148102_00002"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期司法及法制委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請法務部部長率所屬單位主管列席報告業務概況及立法計畫，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1148102_00001"}}}