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\"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"止\", \"start\": 215.955, \"end\": 216.096, \"score\": 0.855}, {\"word\": \"的\", \"start\": 216.096, \"end\": 216.256, \"score\": 0.943}, {\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 216.256, \"end\": 216.496, \"score\": 0.914}, {\"word\": \"個\"}, {\"word\": \"廢\"}, {\"word\": \"棄\"}, {\"word\": \"物\", \"start\": 216.496, \"end\": 216.616, \"score\": 0.831}, {\"word\": \"處\"}, {\"word\": \"理\", \"start\": 216.616, \"end\": 216.636, \"score\": 0.0}, {\"word\": \"計\"}, {\"word\": \"畫\"}]}, {\"start\": 217.958, \"end\": 246.251, \"text\": \"那他現在雞生蛋 蛋又出來生雞所以準博權其實準博準不是 他自己廢止的他問你要什麼法令依據啊所以他大概提了六點問題啦六點問題那這些問題其實我們在12號的時候就已經詢問到台南市政府了那台南市政府現在也因為這些東西要你判斷我們需不需要再開這些因為我覺得是不是主管換人的腦袋也不一樣了這一塊地質公園現在我們在那邊我的選區最偏遠大概就這一片對\", \"words\": [{\"word\": \"那\", \"start\": 217.958, \"end\": 218.078, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"他\", \"start\": 218.078, \"end\": 218.298, \"score\": 0.823}, {\"word\": \"現\"}, {\"word\": \"在\", \"start\": 218.298, \"end\": 218.578, \"score\": 0.848}, {\"word\": \"雞\"}, 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\"score\": 0.747}, {\"word\": \"長\"}, {\"word\": \"回\", \"start\": 575.64, \"end\": 575.72, \"score\": 0.838}, {\"word\": \"來\"}, {\"word\": \"我\", \"start\": 575.72, \"end\": 576.201, \"score\": 0.741}, {\"word\": \"們\"}, {\"word\": \"繼\"}, {\"word\": \"續\"}, {\"word\": \"再\", \"start\": 576.201, \"end\": 576.341, \"score\": 0.681}, {\"word\": \"追\", \"start\": 576.341, \"end\": 576.681, \"score\": 0.742}, {\"word\": \"問\"}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 576.681, \"end\": 576.701, \"score\": 0.154}, {\"word\": \"不\", \"start\": 576.701, \"end\": 576.781, \"score\": 0.748}, {\"word\": \"好\", \"start\": 576.781, \"end\": 576.801, \"score\": 0.131}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}, {\"word\": \"謝\"}], \"language\": \"zh\"}","srt":"1\n00:00:02,186 --> 00:00:21,020\n主委早時間有限我儘速請教幾個問題第一個我們在有關隆崎工廠也就是牛埔那附近的二地形從過去歐新要在那邊埋事業廢棄物及相關處理那當然經過居民跟我們大家一起的努力把這個計畫停了\n\n2\n00:00:22,321 --> 00:00:50,681\n那經濟部行政院都廢止這個計畫了那接下來因為那邊的地質的特殊性全世界只有三個地方有這種像越世界一樣的惡地形所以呢市政府也公告為自然保護保留區以及地質公園另外希拉雅國家風景管理處也把風景管理處的範圍從佐鎮獄井往南延伸到紐浦這一塊這個是現況所以後來我們就要處理一件事情就是\n\n3\n00:00:51,602 --> 00:01:20,139\n那個土地總共341公頃相當大那341公頃其中有51公頃是當年退府會在吳敦義時代把以地做穀等於是入穀了歐新後來也被稀釋掉所以有51公頃是歐新的那剩下290公頃是我們退府會現在由國產署然後呢現在我們的基金在管那希望撥交給台南市政府所以我把這個背景災藥跟\n\n4\n00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:39,790\n主委簡單介紹之後現在問題在這裡因為那個裡面有工業用地是當年我們在做那個炸藥TNT相關的隆起工廠那工業用地的解編那也謝謝我們退伏會相關單位的配合本席也召開好幾次的協調會經濟部市政府都來開了當時就誰有權發動\n\n5\n00:01:43,112 --> 00:02:03,175\n根據民國六十幾年當時的條例現在要怎麼把它終止誰有關誰審核所以你看我們這副表我們開了其實在這個表上以外我們開了很多次會議後來從地方政府到中央的經濟部工業局到這個環保單位到退伏會我們大概都沒有意見了開始走公文\n\n6\n00:02:03,996 --> 00:02:20,189\n那現在走公文呢希望廢止原來就解編原來的工業區的編訂回到原來的狀態讓地質公益園跟國家風景管理可以往前邁進促進地方的觀光那現在最後一個流程了9月5號在經濟部召開審議會議那現在審議會議當中怎麼會經濟部\n\n7\n00:02:25,413 --> 00:02:51,418\n跟委員提出說有一點意見所以又丟回去退府會呢希望你們再收集資料後審查辦理所以我兩個問題請教主委跟我們的處長目前進度怎麼樣那為什麼經濟部我們經過美思協調會他們也沒有意見了怎麼會在審查的時候又有意見我不太懂我也要去經濟委員會問問他們這到底怎麼回事請教主委請我們處長把他們的意見跟召委報告說明是請說\n\n8\n00:02:53,298 --> 00:03:19,815\n委員好我想這個在經濟部在9月5號召開審查會議的時候那當然他提出相關的問題那個問題包含了什麼包含台南市政府要用文資法公告自然貸易其效力是否優於公約期原獎利投資條例並得依作為廢紙編定的依據這個是經濟部提出來第一個條件因為這些條件我們都沒辦法回答不是沒辦法回答這個討論過了\n\n9\n00:03:22,037 --> 00:03:36,636\n經濟部工業局自己廢止了它那個廢棄物處理廠他們自己廢止的計畫現在回過頭問說那你們為什麼要根據那個法令沒有不是因為地質公園廢止的是行政院經濟部廢止的那個廢棄物處理計畫\n\n10\n00:03:37,958 --> 00:04:06,251\n那他現在雞生蛋蛋又出來生雞所以準博權其實準博準不是他自己廢止的他問你要什麼法令依據啊所以他大概提了六點問題啦六點問題那這些問題其實我們在12號的時候就已經詢問到台南市政府了那台南市政府現在也因為這些東西要你判斷我們需不需要再開這些因為我覺得是不是主管換人的腦袋也不一樣了這一塊地質公園現在我們在那邊我的選區最偏遠大概就這一片對\n\n11\n00:04:07,412 --> 00:04:23,066\n土地面積跟台北市一樣大整個山區啦然後人口常住人口大概兩千人左右戶籍人口大概是三四千人我們在路上走會遇到穿山甲媽媽帶著穿山甲小孩在那邊走路會看到水路會看到梅花路\n\n12\n00:04:24,073 --> 00:04:52,121\n偶爾還有猴子就是說那邊的生態很豐富地質是全世界喬治亞跟台灣還有義大利大概三個地方有而已所以那個應該往下一步走否則那邊產業觀光產業不能發展現在卡在中間你又不能當工廠你又不解編工廠用地因為沒有計畫了也不可能了然後呢明明是地質公園是國家地景可以保護然後西大利亞國家風景管理處也要進來協助建立相關的步道讓人跟自然可以共存親近\n\n13\n00:04:52,941 --> 00:05:10,908\n就現在卡在這個土地結編我今天為什麼要拿出來講署長你應該知道我開幾次協調會了然後經濟部是當面講說沒問題法令也他找的耶廢紙也他講的耶那現在卡在那邊一審查他又有意見我們如果這樣延宕一年拖過一年\n\n14\n00:05:12,325 --> 00:05:32,085\n我覺得這個不是我可以接受的效率所以請處長回過頭問問經濟部因為你現在叫台南市政府台南市政府團體丟一個文來說請你解釋你這個地質公園及自然保留區的公告效率有沒有大過民國六十幾年的那一個工業區的特別的條例那時候是為了韓戰的樣子\n\n15\n00:05:33,266 --> 00:05:58,540\n弄了這個隆起工廠嘛那個有時空背景的這兩個法令的進和未接根本不是命題本身而是針對這塊土地的工業區開發所有的計畫都已經廢止了連環評都跟著因為我修法把環評也廢止掉了那他現在回過頭來比法令的未接如果民國60幾年因為韓戰設置這個隆起工廠的法律未接如果高於\n\n16\n00:05:59,724 --> 00:06:15,934\n公告的話難道我們就放著就不動了既不能做地質公園也不能做工業區使用這個對財產管理單位你們永遠要編一個管理員在那邊負責清潔然後那邊現場永遠就是荒煙漫草不能使用\n\n17\n00:06:16,909 --> 00:06:41,441\n我不懂所以這個是我今天不是說退府會哪裡做錯了是你們參與過程當中這一個結論當時早就做好後面跑流程也因為為了讓它有效率化解這兩三年原地踏步所以我們才花了心思開了好幾次協調會這個跟地景有關跟地方發展有關跟我們退府會的財產怎麼樣撥交有關所以我們請退府會\n\n18\n00:06:42,722 --> 00:07:06,129\n回過頭其實應該告訴經濟部你問那個法律位階其實是問錯問題了該問的是你們自己廢止的計畫你現在要比這個位階要幹嘛那如果你們判斷需要再協調我們願意再來協調所以我今天這個題目我本來還要問北榮重粒子這個醫療的這是好事但是重粒子醫療我就附帶題因為北榮今天陳院長沒有來副院長帶你不用出來啦時間關係\n\n19\n00:07:08,050 --> 00:07:14,355\n這一個我們投資45億全世界第14座的重粒子醫療從2023年5月啟用到現在\n\n20\n00:07:18,018 --> 00:07:47,187\n坦白講幫助了516位因為這個是精準醫療在醫界來講這個是化療的最後一塊拼圖那你們因為有計畫要再籌設下一個重粒子醫療中心那就我手邊的資料中國醫藥大學要在台中設花蓮慈濟醫院要在東部設你們下一座本席強烈的建議應該往南部設而因為會需要用到重粒子治療癌症的人都已經是很困難了\n\n21\n00:07:48,342 --> 00:08:15,767\n你不要讓他在舟車勞頓你知道嗎現在都要自費耶4次要自費90萬而且4次還沒結束大概整個療程結束要好幾百萬當然北榮有提供2%的用戶以516人來講2%大概就是幾個人就是10個人給比較沒有經濟能力的我不願意這麼說啦因為這醫療是有成本的但是不能因為沒有錢他就放棄希望嘛\n\n22\n00:08:17,128 --> 00:08:26,687\n我不能因為窮我相信在場包括軍退的人我們都窮過可是這個醫療是有效的我明明知道這個醫療有效我自己父親就癌症過世的\n\n23\n00:08:27,537 --> 00:08:48,019\n我明明知道這依然有效可是療程結束要三百萬要四百萬我依不起啊那兩趴的人我排隊排不到啊所以這個我今天其實要提但因為實關係我沒辦法提我下次一定要再追問這個問題然後你們兩趴你不要忘記北榮是為了照顧榮民農眷榮民農眷的不能放在這兩趴裡面應該要另外再加\n\n24\n00:08:49,565 --> 00:09:16,362\n然後其他的醫療然後另外長期來講你們要推動健保來協助一部分否則這樣子的醫療技術一般人用不起然後有錢的人在排隊這不是我們要看到的醫療現象當然它裡面還有一些人才培養醫學物理醫學物理師這方面其實是很專業的我知道北農做得很好可是你們現在都內部訓練我建議你們人才要往外輸出實際要做可以來受訓\n\n25\n00:09:17,577 --> 00:09:36,801\n那個中國醫藥學院要做來授訓不要讓北龍成為人才跟技術的孤島往外授訓讓中部也有東部也有然後你們下一座拜託往南不放這樣子的話才能均衡發展所以我以上兩個題目請退輔會我們如果需要開學的話我們繼續協調那下一次北龍這一個等你們院長回來我們繼續再追問好不好謝謝\n\n","tsv":"start\tend\ttext\n2186\t21020\t主委早 時間有限 我儘速請教幾個問題第一個我們在有關隆崎工廠也就是牛埔那附近的二地形從過去歐新要在那邊埋事業廢棄物及相關處理那當然經過居民跟我們大家一起的努力把這個計畫停了\n22321\t50681\t那經濟部行政院都廢止這個計畫了那接下來因為那邊的地質的特殊性全世界只有三個地方有這種像越世界一樣的惡地形所以呢市政府也公告為自然保護保留區以及地質公園另外希拉雅國家風景管理處也把風景管理處的範圍從佐鎮獄井往南延伸到紐浦這一塊這個是現況所以後來我們就要處理一件事情就是\n51602\t80139\t那個土地總共341公頃相當大那341公頃其中有51公頃是當年退府會在吳敦義時代把以地做穀等於是入穀了歐新後來也被稀釋掉所以有51公頃是歐新的那剩下290公頃是我們退府會現在由國產署然後呢現在我們的基金在管那希望撥交給台南市政府所以我把這個背景災藥跟\n81240\t99790\t主委簡單介紹之後現在問題在這裡因為那個裡面有工業用地是當年我們在做那個炸藥TNT相關的隆起工廠那工業用地的解編那也謝謝我們退伏會相關單位的配合本席也召開好幾次的協調會經濟部市政府都來開了當時就誰有權發動\n103112\t123175\t根據民國六十幾年當時的條例現在要怎麼把它終止誰有關誰審核所以你看我們這副表我們開了其實在這個表上以外我們開了很多次會議後來從地方政府到中央的經濟部工業局到這個環保單位到退伏會我們大概都沒有意見了開始走公文\n123996\t140189\t那現在走公文呢希望廢止原來就解編原來的工業區的編訂回到原來的狀態讓地質公益園跟國家風景管理可以往前邁進促進地方的觀光那現在最後一個流程了9月5號在經濟部召開審議會議那現在審議會議當中怎麼會經濟部\n145413\t171418\t跟委員提出說有一點意見所以又丟回去退府會呢希望你們再收集資料後審查辦理所以我兩個問題請教主委跟我們的處長目前進度怎麼樣那為什麼經濟部我們經過美思協調會他們也沒有意見了怎麼會在審查的時候又有意見我不太懂我也要去經濟委員會問問他們這到底怎麼回事請教主委 請我們處長把他們的意見跟召委報告說明是請說\n173298\t199815\t委員好我想這個在經濟部在9月5號召開審查會議的時候那當然他提出相關的問題那個問題包含了什麼包含台南市政府要用文資法公告自然貸易其效力是否優於公約期原獎利投資條例並得依作為廢紙編定的依據這個是經濟部提出來第一個條件因為這些條件我們都沒辦法回答不是沒辦法回答這個討論過了\n202037\t216636\t經濟部工業局自己廢止了它那個廢棄物處理廠他們自己廢止的計畫現在回過頭問說那你們為什麼要根據那個法令沒有不是因為地質公園廢止的是行政院經濟部廢止的那個廢棄物處理計畫\n217958\t246251\t那他現在雞生蛋 蛋又出來生雞所以準博權其實準博準不是 他自己廢止的他問你要什麼法令依據啊所以他大概提了六點問題啦六點問題那這些問題其實我們在12號的時候就已經詢問到台南市政府了那台南市政府現在也因為這些東西要你判斷我們需不需要再開這些因為我覺得是不是主管換人的腦袋也不一樣了這一塊地質公園現在我們在那邊我的選區最偏遠大概就這一片對\n247412\t263066\t土地面積跟台北市一樣大整個山區啦然後人口常住人口大概兩千人左右戶籍人口大概是三四千人我們在路上走會遇到穿山甲媽媽帶著穿山甲小孩在那邊走路會看到水路會看到梅花路\n264073\t292121\t偶爾還有猴子就是說那邊的生態很豐富地質是全世界喬治亞跟台灣還有義大利大概三個地方有而已所以那個應該往下一步走否則那邊產業觀光產業不能發展現在卡在中間你又不能當工廠你又不解編工廠用地因為沒有計畫了也不可能了然後呢明明是地質公園是國家地景可以保護然後西大利亞國家風景管理處也要進來協助建立相關的步道讓人跟自然可以共存親近\n292941\t310908\t就現在卡在這個土地結編我今天為什麼要拿出來講署長你應該知道我開幾次協調會了然後經濟部是當面講說沒問題法令也他找的耶廢紙也他講的耶那現在卡在那邊一審查他又有意見我們如果這樣延宕一年拖過一年\n312325\t332085\t我覺得這個不是我可以接受的效率所以請處長回過頭問問經濟部因為你現在叫台南市政府台南市政府團體丟一個文來說請你解釋你這個地質公園及自然保留區的公告效率有沒有大過民國六十幾年的那一個工業區的特別的條例那時候是為了韓戰的樣子\n333266\t358540\t弄了這個隆起工廠嘛那個有時空背景的這兩個法令的進和未接根本不是命題本身而是針對這塊土地的工業區開發所有的計畫都已經廢止了連環評都跟著因為我修法把環評也廢止掉了那他現在回過頭來比法令的未接如果民國60幾年因為韓戰設置這個隆起工廠的法律未接如果高於\n359724\t375934\t公告的話 難道我們就放著 就不動了既不能做地質公園 也不能做工業區使用這個對財產管理單位你們永遠要編一個管理員在那邊負責清潔然後那邊現場永遠就是荒煙漫草 不能使用\n376909\t401441\t我不懂所以這個是我今天不是說退府會哪裡做錯了是你們參與過程當中這一個結論當時早就做好後面跑流程也因為為了讓它有效率化解這兩三年原地踏步所以我們才花了心思開了好幾次協調會這個跟地景有關跟地方發展有關跟我們退府會的財產怎麼樣撥交有關所以我們請退府會\n402722\t426129\t回過頭其實應該告訴經濟部你問那個法律位階其實是問錯問題了該問的是你們自己廢止的計畫你現在要比這個位階要幹嘛那如果你們判斷需要再協調我們願意再來協調所以我今天這個題目我本來還要問北榮重粒子這個醫療的這是好事但是重粒子醫療我就附帶題因為北榮今天陳院長沒有來 副院長帶你不用出來啦 時間關係\n428050\t434355\t這一個我們投資45億全世界第14座的重粒子醫療從2023年5月啟用到現在\n438018\t467187\t坦白講幫助了516位因為這個是精準醫療在醫界來講這個是化療的最後一塊拼圖那你們因為有計畫要再籌設下一個重粒子醫療中心那就我手邊的資料中國醫藥大學要在台中設花蓮慈濟醫院要在東部設你們下一座本席強烈的建議應該往南部設而因為會需要用到重粒子治療癌症的人都已經是很困難了\n468342\t495767\t你不要讓他在舟車勞頓 你知道嗎 現在都要自費耶4次要自費90萬 而且4次還沒結束大概整個療程結束 要好幾百萬當然北榮有提供2%的用戶 以516人來講2%大概就是幾個人 就是10個人給比較沒有經濟能力的 我不願意這麼說啦因為這醫療是有成本的 但是不能因為沒有錢 他就放棄希望嘛\n497128\t506687\t我不能因為窮我相信在場包括軍退的人我們都窮過可是這個醫療是有效的我明明知道這個醫療有效我自己父親就癌症過世的\n507537\t528019\t我明明知道這依然有效可是療程結束要三百萬要四百萬我依不起啊那兩趴的人我排隊排不到啊所以這個我今天其實要提但因為實關係我沒辦法提我下次一定要再追問這個問題然後你們兩趴你不要忘記北榮是為了照顧榮民農眷榮民農眷的不能放在這兩趴裡面應該要另外再加\n529565\t556362\t然後其他的醫療然後另外長期來講你們要推動健保來協助一部分否則這樣子的醫療技術一般人用不起然後有錢的人在排隊這不是我們要看到的醫療現象當然它裡面還有一些人才培養醫學物理醫學物理師這方面其實是很專業的我知道北農做得很好可是你們現在都內部訓練我建議你們人才要往外輸出實際要做可以來受訓\n557577\t576801\t那個中國醫藥學院要做來授訓不要讓北龍成為人才跟技術的孤島往外授訓讓中部也有東部也有然後你們下一座拜託往南不放這樣子的話才能均衡發展所以我以上兩個題目請退輔會我們如果需要開學的話我們繼續協調那下一次北龍這一個等你們院長回來我們繼續再追問好不好謝謝\n","txt":"主委早 時間有限 我儘速請教幾個問題第一個我們在有關隆崎工廠也就是牛埔那附近的二地形從過去歐新要在那邊埋事業廢棄物及相關處理那當然經過居民跟我們大家一起的努力把這個計畫停了\n那經濟部行政院都廢止這個計畫了那接下來因為那邊的地質的特殊性全世界只有三個地方有這種像越世界一樣的惡地形所以呢市政府也公告為自然保護保留區以及地質公園另外希拉雅國家風景管理處也把風景管理處的範圍從佐鎮獄井往南延伸到紐浦這一塊這個是現況所以後來我們就要處理一件事情就是\n那個土地總共341公頃相當大那341公頃其中有51公頃是當年退府會在吳敦義時代把以地做穀等於是入穀了歐新後來也被稀釋掉所以有51公頃是歐新的那剩下290公頃是我們退府會現在由國產署然後呢現在我們的基金在管那希望撥交給台南市政府所以我把這個背景災藥跟\n主委簡單介紹之後現在問題在這裡因為那個裡面有工業用地是當年我們在做那個炸藥TNT相關的隆起工廠那工業用地的解編那也謝謝我們退伏會相關單位的配合本席也召開好幾次的協調會經濟部市政府都來開了當時就誰有權發動\n根據民國六十幾年當時的條例現在要怎麼把它終止誰有關誰審核所以你看我們這副表我們開了其實在這個表上以外我們開了很多次會議後來從地方政府到中央的經濟部工業局到這個環保單位到退伏會我們大概都沒有意見了開始走公文\n那現在走公文呢希望廢止原來就解編原來的工業區的編訂回到原來的狀態讓地質公益園跟國家風景管理可以往前邁進促進地方的觀光那現在最後一個流程了9月5號在經濟部召開審議會議那現在審議會議當中怎麼會經濟部\n跟委員提出說有一點意見所以又丟回去退府會呢希望你們再收集資料後審查辦理所以我兩個問題請教主委跟我們的處長目前進度怎麼樣那為什麼經濟部我們經過美思協調會他們也沒有意見了怎麼會在審查的時候又有意見我不太懂我也要去經濟委員會問問他們這到底怎麼回事請教主委 請我們處長把他們的意見跟召委報告說明是請說\n委員好我想這個在經濟部在9月5號召開審查會議的時候那當然他提出相關的問題那個問題包含了什麼包含台南市政府要用文資法公告自然貸易其效力是否優於公約期原獎利投資條例並得依作為廢紙編定的依據這個是經濟部提出來第一個條件因為這些條件我們都沒辦法回答不是沒辦法回答這個討論過了\n經濟部工業局自己廢止了它那個廢棄物處理廠他們自己廢止的計畫現在回過頭問說那你們為什麼要根據那個法令沒有不是因為地質公園廢止的是行政院經濟部廢止的那個廢棄物處理計畫\n那他現在雞生蛋 蛋又出來生雞所以準博權其實準博準不是 他自己廢止的他問你要什麼法令依據啊所以他大概提了六點問題啦六點問題那這些問題其實我們在12號的時候就已經詢問到台南市政府了那台南市政府現在也因為這些東西要你判斷我們需不需要再開這些因為我覺得是不是主管換人的腦袋也不一樣了這一塊地質公園現在我們在那邊我的選區最偏遠大概就這一片對\n土地面積跟台北市一樣大整個山區啦然後人口常住人口大概兩千人左右戶籍人口大概是三四千人我們在路上走會遇到穿山甲媽媽帶著穿山甲小孩在那邊走路會看到水路會看到梅花路\n偶爾還有猴子就是說那邊的生態很豐富地質是全世界喬治亞跟台灣還有義大利大概三個地方有而已所以那個應該往下一步走否則那邊產業觀光產業不能發展現在卡在中間你又不能當工廠你又不解編工廠用地因為沒有計畫了也不可能了然後呢明明是地質公園是國家地景可以保護然後西大利亞國家風景管理處也要進來協助建立相關的步道讓人跟自然可以共存親近\n就現在卡在這個土地結編我今天為什麼要拿出來講署長你應該知道我開幾次協調會了然後經濟部是當面講說沒問題法令也他找的耶廢紙也他講的耶那現在卡在那邊一審查他又有意見我們如果這樣延宕一年拖過一年\n我覺得這個不是我可以接受的效率所以請處長回過頭問問經濟部因為你現在叫台南市政府台南市政府團體丟一個文來說請你解釋你這個地質公園及自然保留區的公告效率有沒有大過民國六十幾年的那一個工業區的特別的條例那時候是為了韓戰的樣子\n弄了這個隆起工廠嘛那個有時空背景的這兩個法令的進和未接根本不是命題本身而是針對這塊土地的工業區開發所有的計畫都已經廢止了連環評都跟著因為我修法把環評也廢止掉了那他現在回過頭來比法令的未接如果民國60幾年因為韓戰設置這個隆起工廠的法律未接如果高於\n公告的話 難道我們就放著 就不動了既不能做地質公園 也不能做工業區使用這個對財產管理單位你們永遠要編一個管理員在那邊負責清潔然後那邊現場永遠就是荒煙漫草 不能使用\n我不懂所以這個是我今天不是說退府會哪裡做錯了是你們參與過程當中這一個結論當時早就做好後面跑流程也因為為了讓它有效率化解這兩三年原地踏步所以我們才花了心思開了好幾次協調會這個跟地景有關跟地方發展有關跟我們退府會的財產怎麼樣撥交有關所以我們請退府會\n回過頭其實應該告訴經濟部你問那個法律位階其實是問錯問題了該問的是你們自己廢止的計畫你現在要比這個位階要幹嘛那如果你們判斷需要再協調我們願意再來協調所以我今天這個題目我本來還要問北榮重粒子這個醫療的這是好事但是重粒子醫療我就附帶題因為北榮今天陳院長沒有來 副院長帶你不用出來啦 時間關係\n這一個我們投資45億全世界第14座的重粒子醫療從2023年5月啟用到現在\n坦白講幫助了516位因為這個是精準醫療在醫界來講這個是化療的最後一塊拼圖那你們因為有計畫要再籌設下一個重粒子醫療中心那就我手邊的資料中國醫藥大學要在台中設花蓮慈濟醫院要在東部設你們下一座本席強烈的建議應該往南部設而因為會需要用到重粒子治療癌症的人都已經是很困難了\n你不要讓他在舟車勞頓 你知道嗎 現在都要自費耶4次要自費90萬 而且4次還沒結束大概整個療程結束 要好幾百萬當然北榮有提供2%的用戶 以516人來講2%大概就是幾個人 就是10個人給比較沒有經濟能力的 我不願意這麼說啦因為這醫療是有成本的 但是不能因為沒有錢 他就放棄希望嘛\n我不能因為窮我相信在場包括軍退的人我們都窮過可是這個醫療是有效的我明明知道這個醫療有效我自己父親就癌症過世的\n我明明知道這依然有效可是療程結束要三百萬要四百萬我依不起啊那兩趴的人我排隊排不到啊所以這個我今天其實要提但因為實關係我沒辦法提我下次一定要再追問這個問題然後你們兩趴你不要忘記北榮是為了照顧榮民農眷榮民農眷的不能放在這兩趴裡面應該要另外再加\n然後其他的醫療然後另外長期來講你們要推動健保來協助一部分否則這樣子的醫療技術一般人用不起然後有錢的人在排隊這不是我們要看到的醫療現象當然它裡面還有一些人才培養醫學物理醫學物理師這方面其實是很專業的我知道北農做得很好可是你們現在都內部訓練我建議你們人才要往外輸出實際要做可以來受訓\n那個中國醫藥學院要做來授訓不要讓北龍成為人才跟技術的孤島往外授訓讓中部也有東部也有然後你們下一座拜託往南不放這樣子的話才能均衡發展所以我以上兩個題目請退輔會我們如果需要開學的話我們繼續協調那下一次北龍這一個等你們院長回來我們繼續再追問好不好謝謝\n","vtt":"WEBVTT\n\n00:02.186 --> 00:21.020\n主委早時間有限我儘速請教幾個問題第一個我們在有關隆崎工廠也就是牛埔那附近的二地形從過去歐新要在那邊埋事業廢棄物及相關處理那當然經過居民跟我們大家一起的努力把這個計畫停了\n\n00:22.321 --> 00:50.681\n那經濟部行政院都廢止這個計畫了那接下來因為那邊的地質的特殊性全世界只有三個地方有這種像越世界一樣的惡地形所以呢市政府也公告為自然保護保留區以及地質公園另外希拉雅國家風景管理處也把風景管理處的範圍從佐鎮獄井往南延伸到紐浦這一塊這個是現況所以後來我們就要處理一件事情就是\n\n00:51.602 --> 01:20.139\n那個土地總共341公頃相當大那341公頃其中有51公頃是當年退府會在吳敦義時代把以地做穀等於是入穀了歐新後來也被稀釋掉所以有51公頃是歐新的那剩下290公頃是我們退府會現在由國產署然後呢現在我們的基金在管那希望撥交給台南市政府所以我把這個背景災藥跟\n\n01:21.240 --> 01:39.790\n主委簡單介紹之後現在問題在這裡因為那個裡面有工業用地是當年我們在做那個炸藥TNT相關的隆起工廠那工業用地的解編那也謝謝我們退伏會相關單位的配合本席也召開好幾次的協調會經濟部市政府都來開了當時就誰有權發動\n\n01:43.112 --> 02:03.175\n根據民國六十幾年當時的條例現在要怎麼把它終止誰有關誰審核所以你看我們這副表我們開了其實在這個表上以外我們開了很多次會議後來從地方政府到中央的經濟部工業局到這個環保單位到退伏會我們大概都沒有意見了開始走公文\n\n02:03.996 --> 02:20.189\n那現在走公文呢希望廢止原來就解編原來的工業區的編訂回到原來的狀態讓地質公益園跟國家風景管理可以往前邁進促進地方的觀光那現在最後一個流程了9月5號在經濟部召開審議會議那現在審議會議當中怎麼會經濟部\n\n02:25.413 --> 02:51.418\n跟委員提出說有一點意見所以又丟回去退府會呢希望你們再收集資料後審查辦理所以我兩個問題請教主委跟我們的處長目前進度怎麼樣那為什麼經濟部我們經過美思協調會他們也沒有意見了怎麼會在審查的時候又有意見我不太懂我也要去經濟委員會問問他們這到底怎麼回事請教主委請我們處長把他們的意見跟召委報告說明是請說\n\n02:53.298 --> 03:19.815\n委員好我想這個在經濟部在9月5號召開審查會議的時候那當然他提出相關的問題那個問題包含了什麼包含台南市政府要用文資法公告自然貸易其效力是否優於公約期原獎利投資條例並得依作為廢紙編定的依據這個是經濟部提出來第一個條件因為這些條件我們都沒辦法回答不是沒辦法回答這個討論過了\n\n03:22.037 --> 03:36.636\n經濟部工業局自己廢止了它那個廢棄物處理廠他們自己廢止的計畫現在回過頭問說那你們為什麼要根據那個法令沒有不是因為地質公園廢止的是行政院經濟部廢止的那個廢棄物處理計畫\n\n03:37.958 --> 04:06.251\n那他現在雞生蛋蛋又出來生雞所以準博權其實準博準不是他自己廢止的他問你要什麼法令依據啊所以他大概提了六點問題啦六點問題那這些問題其實我們在12號的時候就已經詢問到台南市政府了那台南市政府現在也因為這些東西要你判斷我們需不需要再開這些因為我覺得是不是主管換人的腦袋也不一樣了這一塊地質公園現在我們在那邊我的選區最偏遠大概就這一片對\n\n04:07.412 --> 04:23.066\n土地面積跟台北市一樣大整個山區啦然後人口常住人口大概兩千人左右戶籍人口大概是三四千人我們在路上走會遇到穿山甲媽媽帶著穿山甲小孩在那邊走路會看到水路會看到梅花路\n\n04:24.073 --> 04:52.121\n偶爾還有猴子就是說那邊的生態很豐富地質是全世界喬治亞跟台灣還有義大利大概三個地方有而已所以那個應該往下一步走否則那邊產業觀光產業不能發展現在卡在中間你又不能當工廠你又不解編工廠用地因為沒有計畫了也不可能了然後呢明明是地質公園是國家地景可以保護然後西大利亞國家風景管理處也要進來協助建立相關的步道讓人跟自然可以共存親近\n\n04:52.941 --> 05:10.908\n就現在卡在這個土地結編我今天為什麼要拿出來講署長你應該知道我開幾次協調會了然後經濟部是當面講說沒問題法令也他找的耶廢紙也他講的耶那現在卡在那邊一審查他又有意見我們如果這樣延宕一年拖過一年\n\n05:12.325 --> 05:32.085\n我覺得這個不是我可以接受的效率所以請處長回過頭問問經濟部因為你現在叫台南市政府台南市政府團體丟一個文來說請你解釋你這個地質公園及自然保留區的公告效率有沒有大過民國六十幾年的那一個工業區的特別的條例那時候是為了韓戰的樣子\n\n05:33.266 --> 05:58.540\n弄了這個隆起工廠嘛那個有時空背景的這兩個法令的進和未接根本不是命題本身而是針對這塊土地的工業區開發所有的計畫都已經廢止了連環評都跟著因為我修法把環評也廢止掉了那他現在回過頭來比法令的未接如果民國60幾年因為韓戰設置這個隆起工廠的法律未接如果高於\n\n05:59.724 --> 06:15.934\n公告的話難道我們就放著就不動了既不能做地質公園也不能做工業區使用這個對財產管理單位你們永遠要編一個管理員在那邊負責清潔然後那邊現場永遠就是荒煙漫草不能使用\n\n06:16.909 --> 06:41.441\n我不懂所以這個是我今天不是說退府會哪裡做錯了是你們參與過程當中這一個結論當時早就做好後面跑流程也因為為了讓它有效率化解這兩三年原地踏步所以我們才花了心思開了好幾次協調會這個跟地景有關跟地方發展有關跟我們退府會的財產怎麼樣撥交有關所以我們請退府會\n\n06:42.722 --> 07:06.129\n回過頭其實應該告訴經濟部你問那個法律位階其實是問錯問題了該問的是你們自己廢止的計畫你現在要比這個位階要幹嘛那如果你們判斷需要再協調我們願意再來協調所以我今天這個題目我本來還要問北榮重粒子這個醫療的這是好事但是重粒子醫療我就附帶題因為北榮今天陳院長沒有來副院長帶你不用出來啦時間關係\n\n07:08.050 --> 07:14.355\n這一個我們投資45億全世界第14座的重粒子醫療從2023年5月啟用到現在\n\n07:18.018 --> 07:47.187\n坦白講幫助了516位因為這個是精準醫療在醫界來講這個是化療的最後一塊拼圖那你們因為有計畫要再籌設下一個重粒子醫療中心那就我手邊的資料中國醫藥大學要在台中設花蓮慈濟醫院要在東部設你們下一座本席強烈的建議應該往南部設而因為會需要用到重粒子治療癌症的人都已經是很困難了\n\n07:48.342 --> 08:15.767\n你不要讓他在舟車勞頓你知道嗎現在都要自費耶4次要自費90萬而且4次還沒結束大概整個療程結束要好幾百萬當然北榮有提供2%的用戶以516人來講2%大概就是幾個人就是10個人給比較沒有經濟能力的我不願意這麼說啦因為這醫療是有成本的但是不能因為沒有錢他就放棄希望嘛\n\n08:17.128 --> 08:26.687\n我不能因為窮我相信在場包括軍退的人我們都窮過可是這個醫療是有效的我明明知道這個醫療有效我自己父親就癌症過世的\n\n08:27.537 --> 08:48.019\n我明明知道這依然有效可是療程結束要三百萬要四百萬我依不起啊那兩趴的人我排隊排不到啊所以這個我今天其實要提但因為實關係我沒辦法提我下次一定要再追問這個問題然後你們兩趴你不要忘記北榮是為了照顧榮民農眷榮民農眷的不能放在這兩趴裡面應該要另外再加\n\n08:49.565 --> 09:16.362\n然後其他的醫療然後另外長期來講你們要推動健保來協助一部分否則這樣子的醫療技術一般人用不起然後有錢的人在排隊這不是我們要看到的醫療現象當然它裡面還有一些人才培養醫學物理醫學物理師這方面其實是很專業的我知道北農做得很好可是你們現在都內部訓練我建議你們人才要往外輸出實際要做可以來受訓\n\n09:17.577 --> 09:36.801\n那個中國醫藥學院要做來授訓不要讓北龍成為人才跟技術的孤島往外授訓讓中部也有東部也有然後你們下一座拜託往南不放這樣子的話才能均衡發展所以我以上兩個題目請退輔會我們如果需要開學的話我們繼續協調那下一次北龍這一個等你們院長回來我們繼續再追問好不好謝謝\n\n","segments":[{"start":2.186,"end":21.02,"text":"主委早 時間有限 我儘速請教幾個問題第一個我們在有關隆崎工廠也就是牛埔那附近的二地形從過去歐新要在那邊埋事業廢棄物及相關處理那當然經過居民跟我們大家一起的努力把這個計畫停了"},{"start":22.321,"end":50.681,"text":"那經濟部行政院都廢止這個計畫了那接下來因為那邊的地質的特殊性全世界只有三個地方有這種像越世界一樣的惡地形所以呢市政府也公告為自然保護保留區以及地質公園另外希拉雅國家風景管理處也把風景管理處的範圍從佐鎮獄井往南延伸到紐浦這一塊這個是現況所以後來我們就要處理一件事情就是"},{"start":51.602,"end":80.139,"text":"那個土地總共341公頃相當大那341公頃其中有51公頃是當年退府會在吳敦義時代把以地做穀等於是入穀了歐新後來也被稀釋掉所以有51公頃是歐新的那剩下290公頃是我們退府會現在由國產署然後呢現在我們的基金在管那希望撥交給台南市政府所以我把這個背景災藥跟"},{"start":81.24,"end":99.79,"text":"主委簡單介紹之後現在問題在這裡因為那個裡面有工業用地是當年我們在做那個炸藥TNT相關的隆起工廠那工業用地的解編那也謝謝我們退伏會相關單位的配合本席也召開好幾次的協調會經濟部市政府都來開了當時就誰有權發動"},{"start":103.112,"end":123.175,"text":"根據民國六十幾年當時的條例現在要怎麼把它終止誰有關誰審核所以你看我們這副表我們開了其實在這個表上以外我們開了很多次會議後來從地方政府到中央的經濟部工業局到這個環保單位到退伏會我們大概都沒有意見了開始走公文"},{"start":123.996,"end":140.189,"text":"那現在走公文呢希望廢止原來就解編原來的工業區的編訂回到原來的狀態讓地質公益園跟國家風景管理可以往前邁進促進地方的觀光那現在最後一個流程了9月5號在經濟部召開審議會議那現在審議會議當中怎麼會經濟部"},{"start":145.413,"end":171.418,"text":"跟委員提出說有一點意見所以又丟回去退府會呢希望你們再收集資料後審查辦理所以我兩個問題請教主委跟我們的處長目前進度怎麼樣那為什麼經濟部我們經過美思協調會他們也沒有意見了怎麼會在審查的時候又有意見我不太懂我也要去經濟委員會問問他們這到底怎麼回事請教主委 請我們處長把他們的意見跟召委報告說明是請說"},{"start":173.298,"end":199.815,"text":"委員好我想這個在經濟部在9月5號召開審查會議的時候那當然他提出相關的問題那個問題包含了什麼包含台南市政府要用文資法公告自然貸易其效力是否優於公約期原獎利投資條例並得依作為廢紙編定的依據這個是經濟部提出來第一個條件因為這些條件我們都沒辦法回答不是沒辦法回答這個討論過了"},{"start":202.037,"end":216.636,"text":"經濟部工業局自己廢止了它那個廢棄物處理廠他們自己廢止的計畫現在回過頭問說那你們為什麼要根據那個法令沒有不是因為地質公園廢止的是行政院經濟部廢止的那個廢棄物處理計畫"},{"start":217.958,"end":246.251,"text":"那他現在雞生蛋 蛋又出來生雞所以準博權其實準博準不是 他自己廢止的他問你要什麼法令依據啊所以他大概提了六點問題啦六點問題那這些問題其實我們在12號的時候就已經詢問到台南市政府了那台南市政府現在也因為這些東西要你判斷我們需不需要再開這些因為我覺得是不是主管換人的腦袋也不一樣了這一塊地質公園現在我們在那邊我的選區最偏遠大概就這一片對"},{"start":247.412,"end":263.066,"text":"土地面積跟台北市一樣大整個山區啦然後人口常住人口大概兩千人左右戶籍人口大概是三四千人我們在路上走會遇到穿山甲媽媽帶著穿山甲小孩在那邊走路會看到水路會看到梅花路"},{"start":264.073,"end":292.121,"text":"偶爾還有猴子就是說那邊的生態很豐富地質是全世界喬治亞跟台灣還有義大利大概三個地方有而已所以那個應該往下一步走否則那邊產業觀光產業不能發展現在卡在中間你又不能當工廠你又不解編工廠用地因為沒有計畫了也不可能了然後呢明明是地質公園是國家地景可以保護然後西大利亞國家風景管理處也要進來協助建立相關的步道讓人跟自然可以共存親近"},{"start":292.941,"end":310.908,"text":"就現在卡在這個土地結編我今天為什麼要拿出來講署長你應該知道我開幾次協調會了然後經濟部是當面講說沒問題法令也他找的耶廢紙也他講的耶那現在卡在那邊一審查他又有意見我們如果這樣延宕一年拖過一年"},{"start":312.325,"end":332.085,"text":"我覺得這個不是我可以接受的效率所以請處長回過頭問問經濟部因為你現在叫台南市政府台南市政府團體丟一個文來說請你解釋你這個地質公園及自然保留區的公告效率有沒有大過民國六十幾年的那一個工業區的特別的條例那時候是為了韓戰的樣子"},{"start":333.266,"end":358.54,"text":"弄了這個隆起工廠嘛那個有時空背景的這兩個法令的進和未接根本不是命題本身而是針對這塊土地的工業區開發所有的計畫都已經廢止了連環評都跟著因為我修法把環評也廢止掉了那他現在回過頭來比法令的未接如果民國60幾年因為韓戰設置這個隆起工廠的法律未接如果高於"},{"start":359.724,"end":375.934,"text":"公告的話 難道我們就放著 就不動了既不能做地質公園 也不能做工業區使用這個對財產管理單位你們永遠要編一個管理員在那邊負責清潔然後那邊現場永遠就是荒煙漫草 不能使用"},{"start":376.909,"end":401.441,"text":"我不懂所以這個是我今天不是說退府會哪裡做錯了是你們參與過程當中這一個結論當時早就做好後面跑流程也因為為了讓它有效率化解這兩三年原地踏步所以我們才花了心思開了好幾次協調會這個跟地景有關跟地方發展有關跟我們退府會的財產怎麼樣撥交有關所以我們請退府會"},{"start":402.722,"end":426.129,"text":"回過頭其實應該告訴經濟部你問那個法律位階其實是問錯問題了該問的是你們自己廢止的計畫你現在要比這個位階要幹嘛那如果你們判斷需要再協調我們願意再來協調所以我今天這個題目我本來還要問北榮重粒子這個醫療的這是好事但是重粒子醫療我就附帶題因為北榮今天陳院長沒有來 副院長帶你不用出來啦 時間關係"},{"start":428.05,"end":434.355,"text":"這一個我們投資45億全世界第14座的重粒子醫療從2023年5月啟用到現在"},{"start":438.018,"end":467.187,"text":"坦白講幫助了516位因為這個是精準醫療在醫界來講這個是化療的最後一塊拼圖那你們因為有計畫要再籌設下一個重粒子醫療中心那就我手邊的資料中國醫藥大學要在台中設花蓮慈濟醫院要在東部設你們下一座本席強烈的建議應該往南部設而因為會需要用到重粒子治療癌症的人都已經是很困難了"},{"start":468.342,"end":495.767,"text":"你不要讓他在舟車勞頓 你知道嗎 現在都要自費耶4次要自費90萬 而且4次還沒結束大概整個療程結束 要好幾百萬當然北榮有提供2%的用戶 以516人來講2%大概就是幾個人 就是10個人給比較沒有經濟能力的 我不願意這麼說啦因為這醫療是有成本的 但是不能因為沒有錢 他就放棄希望嘛"},{"start":497.128,"end":506.687,"text":"我不能因為窮我相信在場包括軍退的人我們都窮過可是這個醫療是有效的我明明知道這個醫療有效我自己父親就癌症過世的"},{"start":507.537,"end":528.019,"text":"我明明知道這依然有效可是療程結束要三百萬要四百萬我依不起啊那兩趴的人我排隊排不到啊所以這個我今天其實要提但因為實關係我沒辦法提我下次一定要再追問這個問題然後你們兩趴你不要忘記北榮是為了照顧榮民農眷榮民農眷的不能放在這兩趴裡面應該要另外再加"},{"start":529.565,"end":556.362,"text":"然後其他的醫療然後另外長期來講你們要推動健保來協助一部分否則這樣子的醫療技術一般人用不起然後有錢的人在排隊這不是我們要看到的醫療現象當然它裡面還有一些人才培養醫學物理醫學物理師這方面其實是很專業的我知道北農做得很好可是你們現在都內部訓練我建議你們人才要往外輸出實際要做可以來受訓"},{"start":557.577,"end":576.801,"text":"那個中國醫藥學院要做來授訓不要讓北龍成為人才跟技術的孤島往外授訓讓中部也有東部也有然後你們下一座拜託往南不放這樣子的話才能均衡發展所以我以上兩個題目請退輔會我們如果需要開學的話我們繼續協調那下一次北龍這一個等你們院長回來我們繼續再追問好不好謝謝"}]}}},"gazette":{"lineno":334,"blocks":[["王委員定宇：（10時21分）謝謝主席。麻煩主委。"],["主席：請嚴主委。"],["王委員定宇：主委早。時間有限，我盡速請教幾個問題，第一個，有關龍崎工廠，也就是牛埔那附近的惡地形，從過去歐欣要在那邊埋事業廢棄物及相關處理，當然經過居民跟大家一起的努力，把這個計畫停了，經濟部、行政院都廢止這個計畫。接下來，因為那邊地質的特殊性，全世界只有3個地方有這種像月世界一樣的惡地形，所以市政府也公告為自然保留區以及地質公園。另外，西拉雅國家風景管理處也把風景管理處的範圍，從左鎮玉井往南延伸到牛埔這一塊，這個是現況。","後來我們要處理一件事情，那個土地總共341公頃，相當大，341公頃其中有51公頃是當年退輔會在吳敦義時代，以地作股，等於是入股了歐欣，後來也被稀釋掉，所以有51公頃是歐欣的，剩下290公頃是退輔會，現在由國產署的基金在管，希望撥交給臺南市政府，我把這個背景、摘要跟主委簡單介紹之後，現在的問題是，因為那裡面有工業用地，是當年我們在做炸藥（TNT）相關的龍崎工廠，工業用地的解編，也謝謝退輔會相關單位的配合，本席也召開好幾次的協調會，經濟部、市政府都來開，當時誰有權發動？根據民國六十幾年當時的條例，現在要怎麼把它終止，誰有關？誰審核？所以你看這附表，在這個表上以外，我們開了很多次會議，後來從地方政府到中央的經濟部、工業局到環保單位到退輔會，我們大概都沒有意見了，開始走公文，那現在走公文是希望廢止原來……就是解編工業區的編定，回到原來的狀態，讓地質公園跟國家風景管理可以往前邁進，促進地方的觀光。","現在到最後一個流程了，9月5號在經濟部召開審議會議，現在審議會議當中，怎麼會經濟部跟委員提出一點意見？所以又丟回去退輔會，希望你們再蒐集資料後審查辦理。我兩個問題請教主委跟處長，目前進度怎麼樣？為什麼經濟部經過每次協調會，他們也都沒有意見了，怎麼會在審查的時候又有意見？我不太懂，我也要去經濟委員會問問他們，這到底怎麼回事？請教主委。"],["嚴主任委員德發：報告召委，我請處長把他們的意見跟召委報告說明。"],["王委員定宇：是，請說。"],["楊處長長政：委員好。經濟部在9月5號召開審查會議的時候，它提出相關的問題，問題包含了臺南市政府要用文資法公告自然價值，其效力是否優於工業區原獎勵投資條例，並得依作為廢止編定的依據？這是經濟部提出的第一個條件，因為這些條件我們都沒辦法回答。"],["王委員定宇：不是沒辦法回答，這個討論過了。"],["楊處長長政：對。"],["王委員定宇：經濟部工業局自己廢止廢棄物處理場，他們自己廢止的計畫，現在回過頭問說，那你們為什麼要根據那個法令？沒有，不是因為地質公園廢止了……"],["楊處長長政：我了解。"],["王委員定宇：是行政院經濟部廢止了那個廢棄物處理計畫，它現在雞生蛋，蛋又出來生雞。"],["楊處長長政：所以准駁權其實……"],["王委員定宇：不是，他自己廢止的，為什麼要有什麼法令依據啊？"],["楊處長長政：對、對，所以他大概提了六點問題，這些問題我們在12號的時候就已經行文到臺南市政府，臺南市政府現在也因為這些東西要……"],["王委員定宇：你判斷我們需不需要再開一次協調會？因為我覺得是不是主管換人了，腦袋也不一樣了？我的選區最偏遠的大概就是這一片地質公園，土地面積跟臺北市一樣大，整個山區啦！"],["楊處長長政：是！"],["王委員定宇：常住人口大概兩千人左右，戶籍人口大概是三、四千人，我們在路上會遇到穿山甲媽媽帶著穿山甲小孩在那邊走路，會看到水鹿、梅花鹿，偶爾還有猴子，那邊的生態很豐富，地質是喬治亞跟臺灣還有義大利，全世界大概只有這3個地方有而已，所以應該往下一步走，否則觀光產業不能發展，現在卡在中間，又不能當工廠，又不解編工廠用地，因為沒有計畫了，也不可能了，然後明明是地質公園，是國家地景可以保護，西拉雅國家風景管理處也要進來協助，建立相關的步道，讓人跟自然可以共存親近，現在就卡在土地解編。我今天為什麼要拿出來講？處長，你應該知道我開幾次協調會了？"],["楊處長長政：報告，我知道。"],["王委員定宇：經濟部是不是當面講說沒問題？"],["楊處長長政：是。"],["王委員定宇：法令也是他找的耶！廢止也是他講的耶！現在卡在那邊，審查他又有意見，我們如果這樣延宕，一年拖過一年，我覺得這不是我可以接受的效率。所以請處長回過頭問問經濟部，因為你現在叫臺南市政府，突然間丟一個文說：請你解釋地質公園及自然保留區的公告，效力有沒有大過民國六十幾年工業區的特別條例？那時候是為了韓戰的樣子，弄了這個龍崎工廠，那是有時空背景的，這兩個法令的競合位階根本不是命題本身，而是針對這塊土地的工業區開發，所有計畫都已經廢止了，因為修法把環評也廢止掉了，現在回過頭來比法令位階，好吧！如果民國六十幾年，因為韓戰設置龍崎工廠的法律位階如果高於公告的話，難道我們就放著不動了？既不能做地質公園，也不能做工業區使用，對財產管理單位來說，你們永遠要編一個管理員在負責清潔，那邊永遠就是荒煙蔓草、不能使用？我不懂！","我今天不是說退輔會哪裡做錯了，是你們參與的過程當中，這一個結論當時早就做好，後面跑流程，也為了讓它有效率，化解這兩、三年的原地踏步，所以我們才花了心思開了好幾次協調會，這個跟地景有關、跟地方發展有關、跟退輔會的財產怎麼樣撥交有關，所以我們請退輔會回過頭應該告訴經濟部，你問那個法律位階其實是問錯問題了，該問的是你們自己廢止的計畫，現在要比這個位階要幹嘛？如果你們判斷需要再協調，我們願意再來協調。","所以今天這個題目，我本來還要問北榮重粒子醫療，這是好事，但是對重粒子醫療我就附帶提，因為北榮今天陳院長沒有來，是副院長代理，你不用出來，因為時間的關係。我們投資了45億，全世界第14座的重粒子醫療，從2023年5月啟用到現在，坦白講，幫助了516位，因為這是精準醫療，在醫界來講，這是化療的最後一塊拼圖，你們因為有計畫要再籌設下一個重粒子醫療中心，就我手邊的資料，中國醫藥大學要在臺中設，花蓮慈濟醫院要在東部設，本席強烈的建議你們下一座應該往南部設，因為會需要用到重粒子治療癌症的人，都已經是很困難了，你不要讓他再舟車勞頓，你知道現在都要自費欸！4次要自費90萬，而且4次還沒結束，整個療程結束大概要好幾百萬。","北榮有提供2%的用戶，以516人來講，2%大概就是幾個人？就是10個人，提供給比較沒有經濟能力的。我不願意這麼說，因為醫療是有成本的，但是不能因為沒有錢他就放棄希望嘛！我相信在場包括軍退的人，我們都窮過，可是這個醫療是有效的，我自己的父親就是癌症過世，明明知道這個醫療有效，可是療程結束要花300萬、400萬，我醫不起啊！那2%的人，我排隊排不到啊！所以我今天其實要提這個，但是因為時間的關係我沒辦法提，我下次一定會再追問這個問題，不要忘記北榮是為了照顧榮民、榮眷，榮民、榮眷不能放在這2%裡面，應該要另外再加，還有其他的醫療。","另外，長期來講，你們要推動健保來協助一部分，否則這樣的醫療技術一般人用不起，然後有錢的人在排隊，這不是我們要看到的醫療現象，當然裡面還有一些人才培育，像醫學物理師這方面其實是很專業的，我知道北榮做得很好，可是你們現在都內部訓練，我建議你們人才要往外輸出，若慈濟要做可以來受訓，中國醫藥學院要做可以來受訓，不要讓北榮成為人才跟技術的孤島，往外受訓，讓中部也有，東部也有，你們下一座拜託往南部設，如此才能均衡發展。以上我的兩個題目，請退輔會，如果有需要開協調會的話，我們繼續協調；對北榮這一題，下一次等你們院長回來，我們繼續再追問，好不好？謝謝。"],["嚴主任委員德發：謝謝召委。"],["主席：謝謝。","接下來請徐巧芯委員上臺質詢。"]],"agenda":{"page_end":242,"meet_id":"委員會-11-4-35-2","speakers":["馬文君","陳俊宇","沈伯洋","羅美玲","林楚茵","黃仁","陳冠廷","王定宇","徐巧芯","邱志偉","賴惠員","林憶君","賴士葆","陳永康"],"page_start":207,"meetingDate":["2025-10-08"],"gazette_id":"1147901","agenda_lcidc_ids":["1147901_00009"],"meet_name":"立法院第11屆第4會期外交及國防委員會第2次全體委員會議紀錄","content":"邀請國軍退除役官兵輔導委員會主任委員嚴德發報告業務概況，並備質詢","agenda_id":"1147901_00011"}}}